Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Gord Stellick and Damien Cox: Toronto Mike'd #1387

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

In this 1387th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Gord Stellick and Damien Cox about the Ohtani hype, John Lennon, the '77-'78 Toronto Maple Leafs (about whom they've written a new book entitled Revival), John Kordic and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

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Today, returning to Toronto Mic'd is Gord Stelic and Damien Cox. Round of applause. Welcome back, guys. Studio audience, thank you. Thank you. Good to be back. I'm speaking for myself. I'm not sure, Damien.

Good to be back. The list of the sponsors now. I know. Major financial companies. I remember he was just this little guy running around. Yeah. Now he's got this podcast empire. Was Brian Linehan actually here?

No. So he passed, because it's a gift from the Watchmen, the Winnipeg band, the Watchmen. And they're comparing you to Brian Linehan. Yeah, that's it. So you get it. Okay, so Sammy Cohen, the drummer, he gifted me that. He says that Brian would be proud of me

because Brian passed away before Toronto Mike existed. Oh. So he didn't get a chance. But he did his research, you know, and he was always well prepared for his interviews. And I try to do the same thing. I think very comparable. And by the way,

Nelson Millman, a program director during the, when we almost went under at the fan in 94 with the baseball strike, and yes. And at that point he said the ad rate was a dollar a holler. So that was it. So that's what, that's what you were at one point.

And now you've grown into all these great sponsors. Well, it's thanks to great guests like you guys, and this is actually the second time you guys have come on together, and I love the first time, so no pressure, but I'm hoping for another one. How many times have you come on without me? I've been on, I think, twice without you.

We're kind of like Simon and Garfunkel, you know, that way. And here, we're just plugging a book. We really have no interest in you. They're kind of like Simon and Garfunkel, you know, that way. And, um, and here we're just, we're just plugging a book. We really have no interest. You are right. Paul Simon and Simon. Yes,

they are. They're both still alive. Yeah. It's a good game though. Alive, dead, dead or not dead. I'm good at this.

I'm good at this. Dead or not dead. Well, maybe on that segue. So I should shout out Ridley Funeral Home. I'm going to play a song. I want to ask you about somebody and, uh,

we'll see if, uh, you have any thoughts on this. Boy. Gord, alive or dead? That's John Lennon. Well, I remember it was the Gardens Christmas party, and we heard, and that Monday Night Football announced about John Lennon. That's the all-time story that a guy from ABC

was in the hospital when John Lennon was brought in and phoned and Howard Cosell broke the news. And I remember waking up the next morning and they were playing that song, Good Morning America, as they went to, they showed the Dakota where everyone was hanging out there. It was, it was incredibly moving. Yeah. So that was 43 years ago today. Holy. Wow. Way to start an upbeat. That means I was only only i think i was only four then that's impossible surprised my parents let me stay up that late but damon do you remember the uh hearing the news no i remember watching i was

like everybody else watching monday night football but to me um you know the the the beatles weren't that big to me at that time. So I would have been, what year is that? 1980. 1980. Yeah, I mean. They weren't as big to each other either. But they would have been bigger to you because you're a wee bit older than I am.

Yeah, no, I guess that's fair. And to me, they're my sister and my older sister, my older brother, they were their band. And for me, yeah, they weren't quite the same thing. And, you know, Paul McCartney, because of Paul McCartney and Wings and all that sort of stuff, was kind of more at the forefront of my music. I was an AM listening guy, right?

And John Lennon wasn't as prominent to me at that time and even now out of all the beatles name the beatles let me take over your show for a minute name the your your beatles in order of how much you like them oh uh john paul john paul i like john there's no john paul in the i I think iconic. I think John Lennon. Really? Yeah, number one. I do. You really look at it.

To me, he was the soul of that group. And I love Paul McCartney, what he is now. I really do. Going out and doing it. And then George was underrated and Ringo was overrated. How about that? Jeez. What about your order?

What about your order? You know, I would say paul number one and i always was a little paul number one because i i know that the that george and john were supposed to be the geniuses but watching that show what was the show that was on get back yes watching that it became clear to me that paul was the driving talent of that band. And the other stuff, to me, fit in around him. And he was and is an amazing talent. And George was the guy, for me, who was least accessible. Yeah.

So I would put Ringo in terms of who I like. I just thought... And Ringo is still a very nice and positive presence on the music scene. I was kidding about overrated. No, you weren't. This thing also. There's a vicious side to Gord Stelic that you may not know that I know. And you just saw a glimpse of it.

I named Goldfish Ringo way back when. So that's the ultimate tribute when you're a kid. After this is when the concerts were at Maple Leaf Gardens. Heightened security started about the the stars were paranoid because of this before that and all of a sudden little things like when they did their sound checks right there was i wouldn't say the overwhelming security but there was uh more of awareness and some got paranoid if anybody was around and understandably so the gardens was never really known for security well no well no nowhere was there. Nowhere was there. You could talk your way in anywhere.

Really, in all seriousness, you could talk. There was no such, you know, you'd go to a building, you'd go like the Rogers building, you'd go right up to the 10th floor or whatever floor. You wouldn't have to check in anywhere. You two just wrote a book together. And what's that experience like? Again.

Yeah, again. Yeah, again. Of our trilogy. So the current book, which we're going to talk about now, I don't know. Revival, The Chaotic Colorful Journal.

Sorry, I'm starting that again. Revival, The Chaotic Colorful Journey of the 1977-78 Toronto Maple Leafs. It sounds better if you say it in the original Czech, Gord,

do you want to do it for him? No, it... Yes, that's the name of it. We fought. Rolls off the tongue. We kind of... Well, we didn't fight over the title. Did you like Revival? Well, we've... I liked Revival. I kind of left it to you and our unsung... Not

unsung. Karen Milner, who is front and center, why this is all done. I mean, she gets it done and her partner um as far as rob dawson getting it printed and published and everything else so she's always coming up with great ideas and very efficient very specific where i'm not quite so and i kind of go uh i don't care everything everything's fine i did like it well revival is like a revolver it's a beatles tribute okay there you go okay so i'm going to dive into the book i have a bunch of questions for you about the book of course but i do need to ask you about

the uh the current hype in the city you guys have been covering you know sports in the city for a long long time long and here we are and what is it i'm going to time stamp this it's like 12 21 p.m on december 8th 2023 shohei otani hype is like off the charts right now michael wrote in when he heard you were coming on and he says shohei or no way what do you guys think about a the fact like will he sign here but b like this hype machine is it over the top it's kawaii-esque in the coverage um okay i'll go first this time why don't you go first just in uh i always defer to so it it might be announced by the time we finish our podcast that's the understanding so you've time stamped it uh i think it's been sold that blue jay fans will be bitter bitterly disappointed now which is strange to say that i mean the expectation

i remember when roger clemens came and that was that god smacked me i remember that wow there he is all of a sudden there was a press conference and all the boston writers were just crucifying you remember that kicking off they were so pissed that he left so yeah i mean i'm i'm i never if you asked me two weeks ago i wouldn't think toronto would have been on a short list but i think right now i don't know damian the sentiment is now hearing every day about it, that the expectation, it'll be a big disappointment if he doesn't come. I think that's right.

And Roger Clemens didn't make the difference in terms of bringing people out to. No. I think this guy might make some difference, but attendance was really good. Yeah. The last couple of years. So I don't know how many more people you're going to squeeze in the parking lot. Renovate it.

See, when you do renovations, you've got, you cannot put a bad team out there. Well, and they've hiked. They've hiked the prices. Yeah. So they need to bring in something. So, and how healthy is this guy?

I mean. Well, he's not going to pitch. He's not pitching next season. But he's a great hitter. But he can hit. Yes. So he'll, yeah but he's a great hitter but he can hit yes so he'll yeah we used to get better insight when we're on the air for three hours showy otani yeah he can hit and then we'll go to commercial i think i've become a bit cynical about these things um you know you cynical wow pray tell and i shouldn't be right because kawaii did

turn out to be kawaii but whether it was roger clemens or john tavarez or give me another name of some big stars turkaglue yeah that was poorly pronounced um the um you know the the big stars come to town a better one was hakim elijah one right you know come to town and they are generally somewhat disappointing because A, they can't meet the hype, who can? And B, they're paid so much money, generally, as this guy will be. He's going to be paid like John Rahm money that they can't possibly meet the financial expectations.

But do I hope they get them? Sure, I hope they get them. I hope they get somebody who can knock in a few runs and maybe not get picked off second base in a playoff game. Well, and always the free agents are a spice. Your foundation is what wins it. So when they got Winfield and Molitor and Dave Stewart and Jack Morris, who all didn't coincide at the same time,

they already had that great team together that won two World Series. So, you know, he's not going to do it alone. Is he, my question, let's say they do sign him, does that mean that other people have to go to compensate for that? Rogers has more money than Gord.

Gord without an R. And should be able to bring this in. And there's probably financial reasons for them to do that. And there's no cap. And there's no cap. Well, I mean, there's a luxury tax, but there's no cap. So if anybody can do it, they can do it. They really, in theory, have the largest market

of all Major League Baseball teams because they have the entire country. So we'll see. You know, I mean, I don't know do you right now do you think they sign them right this second right this second i still think i i still find it hard to believe about coming to toronto right we've been jilted so many times and also why here instead of all these other markets yeah so i'm i'm i would love it if he could my guess still is he won't he isn't okay and i don't have any inside knowledge,

but the insiders say, or a few of them do say Toronto has the lead. Well, everybody's hedging their bet like crazy. Oh gosh. Nowadays. Yeah. Some of the great inside stuff.

Well, Damien Cox, they're looking hard to trade for Damien Cox, but they might not trade for Damien Cox. You know what my favorite one these days is? You hear it all the time. They, they're,

they're looking to make a trade, but they're not going to it all the time. They're looking to make a trade, but they're not going to make a bad trade just to make a trade. What the hell does that mean? So they're, oh, okay. So they're not just going to get killed on this deal. You hear that one all the time. I was reading an unknown,

I don't know who this person is, not a recognized person, but somebody on Twitter is referencing the fact that there's a reservation made by Kikuchi at like a, I don't know, a sushi restaurant downtown for 50 people tonight, I think. And this is a sign of a big celebration. So he's coming.

Were you, oh, you weren't invited? Gordon and I are invited. So in our neighborhood, rumors were after the Raptors won the championship that Kawhi and his wife were checking out schools. Right? All these rumors. So he's going to come back.

They're checking out schools for next year. I mean, if you really want to get into the dark side, which I tend to like to, don't you remember the rumors around 9-11 in Toronto that the next planes were coming to Toronto or whatever. And so, you know, we live in a, you know, I think people feel like we live in a disinformation age, but to my mind, we always have. There have always been what probably you can't say anymore are old wives tales about this or that or whatever. And, um, you know, stories, rumors, and now everybody wants to be on social media saying,

I heard X. Um, that's both. That's kind of a pun actually. Um, I heard this or that. And, um,

usually they're wrong. Speaking of X, which I still call Twitter, there is a note for Damien here. Acadian Scooter writes in, please ask Damien if it is true that he has blocked most people on Twitter and ask him why he's the most hated man

in Toronto sports coverage. I think that's a rude question and I think Damien Cox is a wonderful guy. Well, Gord will answer it for you. He'll explain it. Gord, do you want to take a shot at that? No, I think Damien Cox is a wonderful guy. Well, Gord will answer it for you. He'll explain it. Gord, do you want to take a shot at that? No, I think Damien's very misunderstood. When I watch old shows like My Three Sons and Family Affair

and Leave It to Beaver, when I think of Ward, I think of Damien. Yes. But you do block people. What's your policy? You know what? Actually, I don't block anymore. I've done various things, but I mute now. And I think mute is highly entertaining because then people, they don't know.

They think it's still getting better. They're just yelling at you. But Damien, we've talked about this in the past. We always talk about it, Mike. You're fixated on this. I am because I follow you on Twitter, and I think it's wild that you kind of lean in right so not much anymore but it's is that the real damien that we see on twitter or is that just sort of damien josh and everybody by being a bit of a like a bit of a jerk on no that's me okay that's the real damien yeah that's me i mean like but i think

if you choose to have a straightforward point of view and don't couch it in all sorts of, well, maybe, and this, that, Gordon and I both know somebody who will remain nameless who was in the media and used to ask questions. And basically, while they were asking the questions, they would give a menu of possible answers to the person to pick from. And if you just say things straightforward uh people tend to think yeah they think it's curt like it's maybe it's a bit yeah maybe i should just ever end everything with a heart or maybe like like ringo like a bit of a peace and love at the end yeah okay okay i'll look into i think ringo's underrated now i'll look into that no i won't peace and love peace and love. Okay.

So Diamond Dog has a question about wondering if you guys have a lunch bag let down to open things off with. Do you have a lunch bag let down? What would we do if it was today? Oh, no. Well, I don't know about today, but it's funny that of all things

has stood the test of time. And I just think we had a rudimentary meeting with Todd Macklin, our producer, at Damien's place in Hamilton. So here's how it would go, because often we jump at the same thing. But I'll do one, because we would start off with, I would say something like, you know, you watch the Maple Leafs last night and you think, boy, now they've really finally got a goaltender in Joseph Roley.

He's making all these saves. He's a draft pick. They've actually developed a goalie of their own. And then he goes down with an injury that looks kind of significant in a way. And that would be my lunch bag letdown for today. And then Gord would say. I talk about how annoying hard butter is. That would be from being out the previous

night yeah like yeah so and then best four to seven and then best four out of seven so it was uh anyway it's funny it stood the test i can't believe you two aren't on the air together anymore and like this is just well we're not done yet no you're not done yet that's the book's about us revival so okay so hallelujah well listen if i have my way. Okay, so we're going to get to the book, but let's check in on how you're doing. And like Gord, how are you doing these days? How are you feeling? How are you doing?

So I got to tell you, so we had a curling bond spiel on the weekend called the Chisholm at the cricket club, which I belong. Who's in it? Just the cricket club? No, outside clubs and all that stuff. So what other clubs?

So Leaside and, and you know you name it donaldo whatever whoever's curling but they someone over the last 15 years had put a collage of pictures of other chisms so there's a social event so it's it's um you know co-ed that way and it's a men's curling event so 15 years of pictures and they were kidding they're going mass many pictures of me they go oh there's gord 10 pounds lighter. Oh, there's Gord 20 pounds lighter. Oh, there's Gord 30 pounds. It was like the weight guessers at the Canadian National Exxon. So I've just endured that all this weekend.

So I'm going to get my bleep together there. I'm co-host of the morning show on Sirius XM Morning Skate with Scott Laughlin and Tyler Mataraz and Sirius XM Channel 91. And it is really, really gaining traction. I really love it. Talk hockey all the time. I'm still part of the fan around their Toronto Maple Leaf coverage

in a lesser role, but still do that. And did the book with Damien. And of all things, I'm doing some guest columns in the Toronto Star. How about that? How about that? So there you go. We are reunited. Who's writing those for you? I'm keeping... Do you in the Toronto Star. How about that? How about that? So there you go. We are reunited.

Who's writing those for you? I'm keeping, I'm keeping. Do you have one for me today? I've got to get one at the end of the day. So that's what I'm doing. I don't, you know. And you're doing pretty well. Like the kids are good.

Oh yeah. Kids are good. Daughter Jessie's out working and son Justin, I got to watch my beers. It takes them. But anyway, he's at Dalhousie University. I saw brother Bob at our, he's doing all right. We had a really good book launch.

Oh, you know, that Uptown Pub went out of business two weeks later. No. Yeah. It's been in business about 10 years or so. No. Yeah. We drove them out of business? We drove them out of business.

Oh, no. It's a great local pub and it'll come. But anyway. It was. Yeah. No, it was. But anyway, brother Bob was there and my brother Bob and that. So it was good catching up with people.

Should I get, I should have Bob on Toronto Mike, right? He's never been on. Yeah. Bob would be really good. You don't have enough tape. You talk about a guy who has an opinion.

Okay. Oh yeah. I'm going to reach out. If you ask what, yeah, if you like, I remember Mary Ormsby saying that once that she talked to Bob, you know,

just people do just kind of little, she goes, holy crap. Did he ever like once, that she talked to Bob. You know, just people do. Just kind of little, she goes, holy crap, did he ever, like, he gives it right to you. Whatever. Like, no. That's not on a podcast. When I say no filter, I mean it in a positive way. And your sister was there? Yeah.

And came up to me, or I think you said or something. That's my sister. And I thought, I hadn't seen her since the last book launch, which was 2004. I know, 19 years ago. You're last book launch which was 2004 you're giving me years ago you're giving me watch this you're giving me shit you can say that on this show i understand you're giving me shit uh for that i didn't recognize your lovely sister even uh steve pakin dropped an f-bomb on this show he said it's the first time he's uh sworn on a microphone so steve pakin grew up just around the corner from me in hamilton and we used to play we used to play

touch football out in the park. Him and his brother, Jeff, and a few other friends. Jesse, our daughter, Jesse babysat. Really? He's the babysitter. And condolences, his mom passed away. Marnie?

Lovely lady. Marnie was a lovely lady. So, yeah. And Steve, yeah, Steve's. She passed away on Grey Cup Sunday too. Did she? Which Steve felt was appropriate. Steve just had a great, great long life.

I guess you had exchanges with him, but he's, and I'm glad TVO's back. I guess you had exchanges with him, but he's, and I'm glad TVO's back, you know, whatever. Like he, people kind of get. He's been a fixer there for a long time. Yeah, like, you know, can say a lot of people don't care, you know, which is fair,

but just in our business, you know, being in it, I feel for those people that thought, are we done for good? So I'm glad they're back. No, absolutely. And the agenda will be back in 2024. I hear they had some, people took the buyouts. One of the deals when they struck the deal is

they offered voluntary buyouts. And so many people took it that they need to like... If you guys are looking for work... Oh, their agenda. Stop restocking the agenda. They need to restock the agenda. But in 2024, the agenda with Steve Bacon will return.

All right. Now, how are you doing, Damien? By the way, Gord, you look great. I always want you to know that. I think you look great. Well, thank you. You look great too. And by the way, there's the beers.

You mentioned beers for, who are the beers for? Your boy? Justin. Justin. Okay. Yeah. I will send you home with some Great Lakes beer for you. You can pass it on or you could keep it yourself.

But delicious, fresh craft beer going home with you today. Nice. I'll have to pass mine on because I am, I am as of January 1st, 2023, a non-drinker. Okay. So that's, that's part of my story. Well, is that because you felt like maybe you had a problem or just decided?

Well, Gord's my problem. But no, it really just started out as a dry month because I didn't want to pack on that 10 pounds I pack on every winter. So I thought I'll just go dry for a month. You look good too, yeah. Well, thank you. And just sort of kept going and don't miss it at all. And there's so many good non-alcoholic beers out there now.

So I do that. Okay, maybe not the best Great Lakes Brewery sponsor mention ever. But I still like their beer and my son loves it. So there you go. Okay, amazing. And I pointed out I do like the beard on you. And we'll take a photo after this episode and people can see the beard there. But how are you doing, Damien Cox?

I'm great. I'm thrilled and happy. Took the family, all of them, on a big trip to Europe in the summer. Played a ton of golf. Got my cap down. Gordon and I played once together this summer. And the kids are all doing great. And my youngest is now doing engineering out at Dalhousie, which – who's out there?

Justin. Oh, yeah, Justin's out there? Justin. Oh yeah, Justin's out there. Our son Justin, yeah. And yeah, no, I'm happy. I'm not doing a lot of work. That's what's fun to do, this book with Gordon. I still do some work for the Star. And actually, probably the thing that I get busy with

this time of year is on Monday, we'll have the big vote for the Northern Star Award, which used to be called the Lou Marsh Award, and is now and so we're going to be voting on who is Canada's athlete of the year for 2023. So I'd be interested in your guys giving me some input.

Let me write it down though. Summer McIntosh, right? But there are many, many, many competitors. Great swimmer. What do you think, Gord? I'll have to give it some thought. No, you just have... You got, you know,

Canada is in the Olympics, the basketball team. Yeah. You got Shea Gilgus-Alexander. You got Nick Taylor, won the Canadian Open. That's what I do. You got Connor McDavid.

No, Connor McDavid's an interesting one, right? So he was drafted in 2015, right? So he's now... Is that right? So he's now, is that right? So he's now 26 or 27, something like that. He has never won this award. He is the best Canadian hockey player of his generation. He scored 64 goals last year.

He won the Hart Trophy, the Art Ross, the Rocket, and the Ted Lindsay. And will he win this year? And it's tough.'s a very deep very tough because you're I think Shay's gonna win I think the voters feel he's already got so many accolades fairly or unfairly I think a lot a lot of the voters and they always think give some of the voters you know name I have no idea two voters uh you're why do you say stuff no voters in general I I just mean what do you mean voters in general? There's a finite group of voters.

Like Connor McDavid will have his time, but Summer McIntosh, you know, I want to give some props now because they don't get the same kind of... I get what Gord's saying. Because with Shea, for example, they make big bucks, right? What you're saying is

they're compensated financially, right? They get their flowers. I got news for you. All athletes are compensated financially. Dave Perkins is a voter, right? Scott Morrison a voter? No. Mary? Although they certainly could be. Mary certainly could be, but not currently.

Oh, is this like the Hockey Hall of Fame voting? No, it's not like that at all. Can you name all the voters? I can tell you who they are if you want to know. Yeah, I do. I have to guess and you'll tell me yes or no. Is Bruntunt steven brunt there you go finally okay so steven brunt will be at tmlx 14 which is tomorrow and i already let you guys know damon you're a maybe is that right you're a maybe

but i'm like you're not showing up to this well you never know i think it's supposed to be a nice day i actually thought about riding my bike down today. So if I ride my bike down tomorrow, maybe I'll come by. Okay, so it's at Palma's Kitchen. Where is that? It's at, Palma's Kitchen is near Mavis and Burnham Thorpe.

It's in Mississauga. It's, I have to get to the address. I'll text you the address. Are you going? I can't. He's got some, We're going to a play.

You lie. No, Ted Yoano's son's play. It's out in Oakville. He's in one of the art schools there. Unbelievable. The stuff you get in my... But there's a couple Hamiltonians coming. In the afternoon. Yeah, in the afternoon. What time's the play? Like, I think 2 o'clock or something like that.

Here, I'll show you the text from Ted. Tickets are 30 bucks. I asked him how much we got. Anyway, I'll show you later on. So it's noon to 3 p.m. tomorrow. I know Stephen Brunt's going to be there because I confirmed it with his wife when I bumped into her at the Sky Diggers show in Hamilton a couple of weekends ago. Love the Sky Diggers. Me too.

I love the Christmas show. I don't know who the Sky Diggers are, but I fall for them. I totally, I bet that, I bet on that, Damien. I'm like, yeah, me too, buddy. And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, I got to stop doing that. Okay, Tom Wilson's also making the trip. Big Tom. He's like I don't know what you're talking about okay I gotta stop doing that okay Tom Wilson's also making the trip

from Big Tom he's like the mayor of Hamilton so okay and I will shout out

Palma Pasta and I will let you two gentlemen know that there is a large meat lasagna in my freezer for you guys to take home

you guys you love that right yeah honest to God it's an outstanding lasagna oh it really is. Honestly, Lisa always says that and welcomes that

part of the journey. Does Lisa say, hey, Gord, why don't you do another episode of Toronto Mic'd? No, she doesn't say that. It's not a knock against you, but she just, you know, the pasta. That doesn't sound like something she'd say. No. No. All right. Have you guys seen the

series, Borea, the Swedish-Canadian collaboration? So I have not seen it. I got a neat note from Devin Smith with the NHL Players Association. He was over in Sweden for that grand opening when the teams were over there. And he said one of the funniest ones

was they did a Q&A after with Margita, Borea's first wife and longest wife and that and uh like long one and one no just a time wise quite the way in spain and when he was in toronto margita was uh uh his his wife and so but she said she remembered that i called her because we're setting up that we're going to give boria a blazer. And she took it to be like a blazer and she didn't quite understand what was going on, but no, it was the car.

We were setting up a surprise thing. It's the only time we did it that- See, I would think it was a jacket too. Yeah, I know. But I think I did explain it. She just didn't hear me, but she got a kick out of it. So we flew Boria's parents over

and I'd stole it from the philadelphia flyers did it for bill barber night so then we had inga hamström drive the car on the ice paul morris the pa guy he wasn't really playing along he didn't do stuff like that he was pretty straight so he's still with us right oh i know but he wasn't yeah but but so people were a little confused well just a car seemed to drive on the ice, right? A random car. How come it wasn't like a tea service? Isn't that usually what Harold did to his players? See, it was a better idea. I came up with the idea what Philadelphia had done

when Reggie Leach drove the car out, and Bobby Clark was at center ice because he was the general manager, and they had Bill Barber night, and this worked out well. Remember when Daryl got his 10-point night, Harold gave him a tea service silver tea service and he and turnbull a silver and he and turnbull got one when he got

five goals and apparently it was expensive i don't know whose idea it was and i remember them talking on the plane once and i think turnbull put some cleaning solvent on that screwed it up like they were talking about something and uh and that's a lunch bag let down. I have to say, by the way, and we'll get back to Boria, and I haven't seen it either. But if I could urge people to buy this book for one thing, and that will be to, Gord did an amazing interview, maybe two, one with Ian Turnbull, which he says some of the best stuff. Talk about the contrarian.

Oh my goodness. And ends up being a great part of the story. So yeah, Ian Turnbull. Okay, because Borea in some regards inspired this book, Revival, right? Yeah, very much. Yeah, it was. And by the way,

Borea was involved in that series as well, which is great. He was healthy in that series you're just talking about. Yes. But the Boria series. Yes. I happened, I had Jason Priestley on the show

and he played Jerry McNamara in this series. So I kind of got the, I got like a influencer media link and I got to watch this thing. And yeah, remember all those pictures we saw of like Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler and Tiger Williams and DeBorghe, like in front of Maple Leaf Gardens,

that was all part of the series. Like that's why it was all done. Yeah. So, so the thing was his incredible, like, like of all things, the only night of the year,

they have two home games on consecutive nights because Friday night is a T TSN hockey hall of fame weekend. They get that. And then hockey day in Canada. night of the year they have two home games on consecutive nights because friday night is a tsn hockey hall of fame weekend they get that and then hockey day in canada said we're not going to give up a saturday we got all these people in town we want a home game on saturday right so that's when boria came and the friday was the oh my god you got to be kidding me and the saturday we were prepared for it and was the and damian talked about it was just like the just the um the genuine emotion and and and the and the the bravery that and and the soul that seemed to give everybody you know and and and just seemed to inject the organization it gave them a soul that gave him

personality and damien just said boy you know what an iconic figure and we should look at doing something he's got the story wrong we should look at doing something about not how that team yeah it was it was quite the moment though that was going to explain this to you how it happened because you always get this wrong no i don't gourd is spot on with stories that happened in the 1970s less good with anything that's happened in the last seven eight years so what happened was gourd was there that night uh uh the friday night and the saturday both nights but anyways and then two weeks later two weeks later borya yeah two weeks later borya died and it was a friday and so i was gonna i was uh gonna write something for the star about borya salming

sadly i sort of ended up doing that lately for this for the star because i wrote on mike bossy i wrote on key lafleur so this is kind of what this is my new my new niche i guess anyways so i call gourd because i want to get his because i knew he knew warrior this is on the friday he calls me back on the monday which is not so good for a newspaper deadline why didn't i call you on the friday i have no idea why you didn't call me. So he calls me back on the Monday. So that's the paper's long gone. But anyways, and so we start talking about Boria and we start talking about the 70s and the hockey then and all the stories and it just sort of this, there's a lot of stuff

here because we really had not talked about doing our first book together was a bitter nasty experience it was like the it was like the beatles at the end you know gordon damien playing on top of the rooftop never seen again it was like that sort of thing and then uh so we had really never thought about it and then um and then we really decided that day and by the next week talked talk to Karen and then we're off. So that's how it happened. So, okay. That's correct. Okay.

I was sort of, I didn't mean it was that night. So that was correct. And you worried he's running out of tape? We're running out of time? No. And you know what? Maybe why I didn't call you back was, so what happened to me on that Saturday?

Just so you know, do you go by Toronto or Mike? What is his name? You can call me Mike. Okay. So of all things, by coincidence, I happened to be visiting somebody in one of the boxes. And when I went in the intermission. This was on the weekend that Borea's last visit to Toronto. Yeah.

So the second night, Saturday. The Saturday night. So that wasn't when I called you. No, no, no. So anyway. I called you two weeks later. I know. But anyway, so I was actually not during the intermission because I did the intermissions

on radio so I was visiting somebody yep quickly uh Tom Bitto that's right I was visiting so as I was walking down there there's Tom Fergus and Ally Afraid and I go what are you guys doing here because I know the alumni box is elsewhere and he goes oh they got a box for Boria down there and I looked about five boxes down I think even Larry Tannenbaum was there. So there was a crowd there. So I went in to Tom's and then I had to go to go back upstairs. And I told Damien the story. And then I walked and there was the door.

And I'm so glad I, you know, I thought, you know, so I opened the door and it was relatively quiet there in Boria's box. It had been helter skelter. His son, Anders, was there. What a fun young man, Teresa. Like, Anders was more the business guy. Teresa just was crushed, devastated. But Boria and his wife were sitting, if you can follow, like the third and last row, just off to themselves,

watching the game. So I thought, okay, so I just leaned in, and I go, Boria, Gord Stelourd stellic like i didn't know how it was going to go and he first gave a look because unfortunately because of the als it's hard to read the look then he grabbed my hand and we had to shake and then i hugged him for about three minutes and he was so strong he was so strong like he was so ravaged by the disease but he was so strong and he's trying to talk and you know um and it was one of the most tragic wonderful moments of my life okay and i did it on a whim because bori and i we had a real solid relationship in that and i was

reluctant to talk about that story then because everyone was talking about being his best friend you know what i'm saying so i think that was part i didn't want to because it was a like a very fortunate special moment for me and a moment i never envisioned i mean borya the the iconic borya the the the specimen the best physical specimen i've ever known in my whole life so right so that was a little bit i i kind of i kind of laid off because i i laid off because it's this story about me. And at that time, you know, there's others that could have talked. How's that, Damien? No, that's one of your more elaborate excuses.

It is. No, it's not. It honestly was a bit. But the point is we did ultimately two weeks later. He managed to pull himself together, call me back two weeks later. Pull himself together. Gordon and I have known each other since June of 1989, when we were flying together to go to the Memorial Cup.

And I would say the one thing we can count on, we still make each other laugh. That's right. But then we came with a book. And it wasn't just going to be about Borea because there were all these other stories. We quickly thought, oh, there's that story and that story. Has anybody ever written a book on this? Is there something out there?

But it was certainly inspired by Borea. Okay, so to get us to 1977-78, that season, Chris Ward writes in, was the 77-78 season Borier's best chance at displacing Orr, Potvin, and Robinson for the Norris Trophy? The three of them were the only D to win it for about 15 seasons.

So, Ian... I don't think so. No, Ian Turnbull talks about Roger Nielsen wrecked it for everybody. So Ian Turnbull would say no, that Roger, Ian had his best season before Roger came and Roger sucked as far as Ian goes. And the best part, if I can just interrupt,

Ian loves to tell the story about how he was in junior hockey and he had a chance to play for Roger Nielsen and he didn't want to play for Roger Nielsen in junior hockey. He definitely didn't want to play for him in the NHL. So there was an element that it was the team concept. Like the year before under Red Kelly, like Boria and Ian Turnbull had ridiculous stats, offensive stats.

So it's, you know, he came, I think he came second once because he was only a first team all-star once, Boria. He was the only Leaf to be an official first team all-star from when they won the Stanley Cup in 1967 till Matthews and Marner have done it. That's a long. And I would say it was his misfortune to come along at that time because I'm not sure, maybe you would disagree

because you were closer to him, but he wasn't better than Orr. He wasn't better than Robinson. He wasn't better than Potvin, although Potvin was still developing at that point. Brad Park, maybe he was, like he would have been the, to me, does that sound right? Yeah, well, nobody's Bobby Orr.

Bobby Orr's in a whole different class as far as I'm concerned. And the other ones are all different. And the other ones, unfortunately, for Boria, got more winning experience and more playoff experience. But they all, you know, like, yeah, they were all great. They were all great. Yeah, quick little update. We're going to get back to, a better team. But they all, you know, like, yeah, they were all great. They were all great. Yeah. Quick little update

we're going to get back to. It's that, I just thought I'd keep an eye on this Otani watch just in case it happens during our chat here. But they're tracking a flight that apparently,

I know, these flight trackers, there's apparently a flight, I haven't, don't have time to dig in and how reliable, but from Santa Ana to Toronto that's in the air right now

and it's estimated to arrive at uh let's see now it won't be here till six six what is that possible anyway bottom line is it's there's apparently there's a flight in the air right now and they're speculating that otani is on this flight you know what day he signed with the uh what's today the seven today's the eighth this is the anniversary of the John Lennon assassination. And this is the date on which he signed with the Angels. December 8th. Is it really? Yeah.

Oh, I didn't know that. Is this the same plane that brought Kawhi over? Same one. Okay. This is the same plane that brought Kawhi over. Well, I hope for Toronto fans it's true. I'll bring it back to revival, but if I get any more news during this conversation,

I'll maybe chime in with it here. But take me back to 1978 70 77 78 like uh harold ballard's in charge right but he's also in jail is that right no no he's out of jail by that he's out of jail by the slammer okay yeah so 77 78 he took over the team in say i think 1972 ish and then uh and then he went to he took it over and probably went to jail and then came out and he while he was in jail that's when salming and hammerstrom were signed yeah so jimmy gregory was kind of uh allowed to do his own thing and he's the most underrated general manager of all time in my opinion but anyway wonderful man and that year harold ballard's the owner and 77 78

they all say like daryl sitler said he actually left him alone he was having fun he thought it was great but the next he didn't do anything crazy no but the next year well he the only thing he did i think it was yeah it was that year was that year with the uh the names on the back of the jersey no that was later on that was later that was later so anyway he uh so he he had a fun he thought it was great but the next year when when they didn't grow he all of a sudden got impatient and already uh was talking about getting rid of roger and jimmy and that's what happened so they look at as a real charmed year that it was just a roger nielsen's first year in the nhl very innovative real successful year um on on the ice although we document that they didn't kick ass on the ice they you know they they didn't squeak in the

playoffs but they weren't dominant in the regular season but then a real dominant playoff win over los angeles and then they the leafs were the broad street bullies they got beat by the broad street bullies from so many times they were the ones that bullied the new york islanders and pulled a huge upset. Right. And we talked to Chico Resch and Brian Troche about it and they just said this was a big building block for them to two years later

start to win four consecutive Stanley Cups. Yeah, they were, it was funny because Roger Nielsen is remembered as a very cerebral hockey coach. He liked his goon hockey. He really did. And at least in this particular case he identified that's what had to be done that's what what would win in the nhl and it did and it didn't

i mean the leafs and you know we talked about the book being revival this was a chance after they'd won the cup in 67 they'd gone down they'd started you know they'd had some moments in the early 70s but not really they were you know they were struggling they got beat by the flyers three years in a row and all of a sudden boom there was excitement and people were pumped about hockey in toronto again well in the book you referred to it as the the era of slapshot so that was sort of the uh well that was the year slapshot came out right 1978 all right uh go go back to Harold Ballard for a minute because you know I'm mildly obsessed with the Ballard stories.

But there was an anecdote in this book from Selwood. It was about one Christmas, Harold, I guess he would dress up as Santa Claus for the parties and then you'd get a presence. But then two weeks later, he said he noticed that the cost of the gift had been deducted from his check so it sounded like like harold ballard was basically charging the cost of the

christmas gift that he would give them as santa claus to the to the player so it was interesting from brad's brad selva talking about guys that went to the wha jim dory ricky lee him like three great young defensemen that should have been there all i can say is when I was there Harold did not play Santa Claus somebody else did and he was very generous with this gift it was two American Airlines tickets wherever you wanted to fly okay so um I'm not going to take issue with Brad Selwood's memory but you know but yeah they were a very cheap organization to the point could you explain to me the story about the per diems? Oh, so a few teams were like this. Like, you know, so Brian. It was such a different era in the NHL.

Well, Brian Sutter said when Harry Arnest brought the St. Louis Blues in 1983, they had four games in Chicago and they stayed at a different hotel each time because each one gave a free introductory offer. So they stayed. So to Damien's point about the per diem was, I'd say per diem was 30 bucks a day. So if you left after 3 p.m., it was half days per diem, 15. But if you left at 7.30 p.m. after that,

you paid no per diem. So the Leaf charter would leave at 7.35 p.m. You know, get in like 9.30, go to bed 11.30, save 15 bucks a person, you know? And that wasn't uncommon. bed 11 30 save 15 bucks a person you know and that and uh that wasn't uncommon and then of course a lot of our commercial flights back then as well and the players paid their own parking yeah uh around the thing so they were and well the guys say they were guys like mike pelleck that they were very cheap organization and they lost a lot of talent because they were cheap now yeah gourd knew harold personally and saw him also do very some some very generous things yeah well absolutely absolutely

okay so tell me a little more about because i'm you know this era here uh 1977 78 the wha like just help us out with with what role that plays in with the league at that time, the WHA. Well, it's on its way out. In 77, 78. Whereas early, the Leafs got decimated because to Damien's point, they were one of the teams. Now, Clarence Campbell, the NHL president said, don't, this league's not going to last.

And Harold really revered Clarence Campbell. Maybe he just revered Clarence Campbell saying don't spend money. But, you know, they lost Bernie Perrant, Jim Harrison, all those defensemen and that, and they got killed by the WHA. So it was a huge factor in their demise, but it was becoming irrelevant

right around 77, 78. But before that, I would say what you're seeing right now between the PGA Tour and Live Golf really mirrors what was going on back then between that's true nhl and the wha and in fact in the in the book it talks about when bobby hull signed that made a lot of guys more confident to sign with the new league and i think that's what you're going to see with john rom now him signing that you're going to see more guys jump

and they and they you know the the money was crazy and everybody was saying they can't possibly pay it in the case of the wha they couldn't they didn't have the money but um but it also opened i mean the nhl was not paying players anywhere what they would do at that time because they had total control, a total monopoly, and they had also a reserve clause that allowed them to send the players wherever they wanted to go and at any time. So the WHA changed all that. And for a lot of guys, you know, they, they'll, they'll say to this day that, you know, they owed bobby hall a huge debt of gratitude because he changed the way in which the financial structure league now for the leafs harold

batter harold ballard looked at it and said i'm not paying leagues not and i'm not paying and probably incur encouraged by other owners to do that meanwhile these other teams kept their players the boss the new york rangers kept their entire top line but the leafs lost a lot of a lot of good young players who hadn't yet established themselves yeah and maybe they weren't going to be stars in the nhl but they cost the leafs a lot of depth and then eventually they also lost guys like keon and olman who maybe were at the end of their careers. And Paul Henderson. Yeah, but still had value as players. And the Leafs just threw a lot of these guys away.

And the worst one of all was Bernie Perrant, how they lost Bernie Perrant. And then when he did come back to the NHL, they traded him to Philadelphia, and immediately the Flyers won the Cup, and he was the Kahn's My Trophy. And that has to be the greatest loss of any single player in maple leaf history really well a goaltender is prime yeah a goaltender is prime like that but you can say took a rask i mean there's so many examples but not i mean yeah bernie pratt i mean this was

in a this was in a what how many 16 team league at that time yeah and he became the best goalie him and ken dryden and you know were the best two goalies and they had them and they didn't have to give them up no just yeah exactly exactly i mean uh jim gregory said that gil stein was with the philadelphia flyers he was their legal counsel later became president and he cornered harold at a governor's meeting and just said hey what are you doing you're not gonna get the guy's not gonna play for you might as well get something where jimmy gregory was just saying hey he's going to want to come back we got to keep him so harold got pissed off and then so they got a first round pick and doug favel in return but think about this and the the first round pick that was the one that turned into

bob neely no it turned to bob neely yeah not in turn but was boston um the uh the the wild part about the bernie peronko and theHA, so the Leafs play on the Saturday. He hops on a flight the next day, goes down to Miami, signs with the Miami Screaming Eagles, and then comes back and continues to play for the Leafs. Yeah. Can you imagine that happening today? I know.

But that's the way things were back then. That's the way things work around here. Speaking of that, Dave Hodge was asked a question. He was here last week to kick out his 100 songs. How many times has he been here now? Seven years in a row we've done the 100 songs of the year. I never got asked to kick out the jams again. It's a different kind of jam kicking.

It's 100 of the year. Have you listened to 100 new songs in 2023? For sure. He does 100 new songs? Yeah. Wow. Well, that's the thing. But the thing is, he doesn't duplicate artists.

So that's where it blows my mind. Oh, yeah. He knows his stuff. So that's 100 unique artists with new music that he seeks out and he loves. Yeah, he shares with everybody. So he was asked, what was the greatest team in the 70s that never won the Cup? And I think the person asking the question might have been fishing for the Maple Leafs,

but I'm curious what your answer to that question is. The best team of the 70s, or at any point in the 70s, that never won the Cup in the 70s. I think Chicago Blackhawks should have beat Montreal that time. You know, is that what he said? He actually did't answer.

He just... Too big on the tunes? He was... No, I think he just had to process it a little bit there. I mean, you can make a case for the New York Rangers with Jean Rattel and... They'd be the two. ...Rod Gilbert and Vic Hadfield and Brad Park

and the two goalies when they had Jockerman and... Villeneuve. Yeah. Villeneuve, right? Right, and a few other guys. But, you know, and that's the trick. With the Leafs of 77-78, were they good enough to win the Cup? No. No.

But look at what the Islanders did after they lost to the Leafs, and then look what the Leafs did. And I think there was a foundation there that had they had the structure and the organization to build on that foundation, they might have been... Might have been the Islanders. They might, or at least might have been in a position

to really challenge for the Cup a couple of years after that. But they chose some other directions okay so before we get to sort of like how it all went wrong so shortly thereafter i want to ask you about the toronto toros like like so do they play a role at all uh in all this like uh the toros i just uh yeah so tell me about that. Well, I mean, they play a role. And again, Gordon would have lived this. They play a role in that they move from Ottawa to Toronto and Johnny Bassett,

who's the son of Ballard's former partner with the Leafs, brings the Toros to Toronto and they're going to challenge the Leafs. And they're going to play out of Varsity Arena, except they can't play out of Varsity Arena because U of T has first dibs on best dates, and there's no lighting there for television and stuff. So ultimately, a whole bunch of stuff happened, and they end up going to the gardens. So at the same time he's losing players to the wha ballard's making money off the toronto toros being in town and they

really tried first to be an alternative to the leafs but then gradually they kind of became the leafs they they brought in players like henderson um you know to netta asking frank mahovlage they brought in um uh bob Bobby Bond to coach, which was a complete disaster, I guess. Did not work out at all. And ultimately, they kind of became a bit dysfunctional, like the Leafs. And mostly, they just spent way too much money

and ultimately had to move to Birmingham. But, I mean, do you remember them ever thinking, Gord, that they were ever going to really challenge the Leafs in the market? There was, of all things, just like the Toronto Argonauts had their worst playoff game, you know, with the biggest attendance. Were you there? No.

Were you there, David? Which one? Oh, the egg laid by the Argos in the East. The playoff game. Yes, I was there. Oh. So they had a series, I think against the San Diego Mariners

and it got national TV somehow. Andre Lacroix and those guys. And they got blown out. And I'm not saying it would have happened, but that was just kind of a, wasn't able to seize the moment. They played a lot of Friday nights. They'd be about half full.

Harold really liked Johnny Bassett. You know, his dad was an arch enemy, but he respected Johnny Bassett with what he did and that that and i guess it gave him a little bit more revenue with the wha folding and also incurring revenue from the wha and all the concerts and that it seemed like 1980 started to flip a bit that rather than being cheap he was just more frugal you know he because harold yeah because he was overextended for the first eight years you know about it so they're really watching they're really watching their pennies then i would have think too i mean johnny bassett he was a rebel in his own way and in fact

tried to bring a usfl team to toronto and the government i mean imagine that the government's turned him around said no you can't mark polan was the minister yeah and the minister, yeah. Yeah, and so... To protect the CFL. Yeah, so he moved the team to Memphis and they became the Memphis Southmen. So he was a bit of a, kind of a rebel and I think maybe Harold would have respected that. I think so, yeah. He would have liked that.

Absolutely. Now, before we get to, I'm going to ask you about some specific key parts of this 1977-78 team. The book is called Revival. Do you guys care how somebody buys the book? Just go to like Amazon or do you have a preference? No, just go to Gord's house.

He's got like a bunch of... Like how do you get a sign? What if you wanted Revival signed by Gord Stelic and Damien Cox? Come to Mike's house then. Yeah, we'll come now. We'll leave one for you. Well, I know Gord's got a bag of books here. I think if someone ever really wanted to have a book signed,

that we would figure out a way to make it happen. Yeah. We would do that. How about that? It's actually an honor. It's an honor. Gord's signature increases the value of the book. My signature decreases the value.

It negates that increase. That's right. But yours is way more legible than my signature. But Damien, I'm curious, since you were at that game at BMO Field, the Argonaut game. But Damien, I'm curious, since you were at that game at BMO Field, the Argonaut game. So I have to admit, I don't tune into as many Argo games as I probably should.

I thought you were a big Argo fan. I'm a big fan of the Argos when they're in the Eastern Final and then in the Grey Cup and along the way I pop in and out. But I was well aware that this was the greatest Argos team of all time, one of the greatest CFL teams of all time. And I was quite excited to watch them in the Grey Cup. And then my kid had a hockey practice and I get home and I tune in for the second half of that Eastern final. And they actually just looked horrible. And I was thinking like, okay, they have this perfect storm where they finally look like they filled BMO. It looked full to me, 25,000 or something. They've never had that many people at BMO field for an Argos game. have this perfect storm where they finally look like they filled bmo it looked full to me 25 000

or something they've never had that many people at bmo field for an argos game and then that happened like it just seemed like the worst luck but what was it like being there like it looked was it as bad in person as it looked on my television well i mean you know uh growing up in hamilton it's never bad when you see the Argos go down the tube. So I wasn't in tears in the press box certainly watching it. But I think it was a really unusual case of a star player in the Canadian Football League, in this case, the quarterback of the Toronto Argonauts, Chad Kelly,

completely, I mean, he just looked like he was paralyzed. He couldn't, after having this great season, and they were 16-2, and he'd done all this stuff, and it was stage fright. And all of a sudden, he started just doing incredible things. I mean, the Montreal defense scored, you know, could have outscored the Argo offense that day. Kind of like Manoa pitching in the playoffs.

Seriously. Yeah, yeah. Really? It was really something to watch. It was kind of good to see Montreal in the playoffs seriously yeah yeah it was it was really something to watch it was kind of good to see montreal in a way but i don't know like to me i never really took seriously that that people were saying this is the greatest argo team ever and that's usually by people who've been watching for about six years i mean you know i mean if you saw those doug flutie teams or the matt donegan teams or I'm trying to think of even, you know, the, the, the,

the great cup team in the, in the early seventies and the talent. Everybody does instant takes now. Everyone instant takes. Well, and often they, and they don't go back very far. So, you know, had they, had they beat Montreal and then won the great cup decisively, then yeah, you could make the argument, but you got to win something. And right now, this was a season which the argument, but you've got to win something.

And right now, this was a season which the Canadian Football League, to my mind, was really weak. There were a lot of weak teams. So the fact that they were 16-2, congratulations to them. Ryan Didwitty did a good job. It was a solid, solid team, but obviously in the end,

not nearly close to being the best Argo team ever. No. In your opinion, which being the best argo team ever no uh when in your opinion which is the best argo team ever is it one of those flutie teams i think those flutie teams i think he i think you could make a case even though he was here for such a short period of time that you could make a case that he was he might have been the greatest cfl player ever you know and that's you know and i'm I'm talking, obviously, you got Warren Moon, then you go way back to Sam Echeverry and stuff, but Doug Flutie was in a, in a universe of his own for the years,

and he was so exciting, and it was at a time where he had great talent around him, too, that he could use, and I don't know. He was at, Pinball Clements was the Easter Seals Ambassador Award a year or two ago. And Doug Flutie made a point that he wanted to be there.

And he came and he just talked about, you know, pinball. And it was really neat, his remembrances of pinball and his time with the Argos. And he just said, he goes, I was with the Calgary Stampeders. And I forget the coach's name, but he goes, he's the most buttoned down guy. And we'd be watching the Argos and they're going,

and he goes, and they go, what the hell is that? He goes, then all of a sudden the next year I'm, just, you know, and the guys looking at him,

John Huffnagle was the Calgary guy, but he just about pinballs. He played for Matthews here in Toronto, didn't he, Don Matthews? He was kind of a groovy rock and roll.

Yeah, yeah. So they just, they were kind of the, they were kind of the old Oakland A's or the fun team or the New York Mets or whatever the 80s and that, the Argos were that in the 90s. All right.

You mentioned Roger Nielsen earlier in this chat and I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little on his contribution to the 77-78 Toronto Maple Leafs. Phenomenal. Were you friends with him, would you say? Oh, big friends, huge friends. I worked with him in Toronto,

then again in New York. Oh, that's great. I just, you know, when I say I loved Roger, I just did. He's a, in this buttoned down corporate world of sameness and soundbites

and that Roger was always unique. Daryl Sittler just talks about as a guy that Roger was light years ahead of everybody. Captain Video, he's the first guy to do video he did it himself that year he did it himself he put together he spliced the tape he did a report he did all he talks about you know that uh um they would get a videotape of the game some places

the game wasn't on tv so he'd have to get a um and they'd probably get like a sort of a film student from a college to get, do a game, like kind of a, like almost like a Zapruder film. No, I mean, I used to co-host a podcast of Mark Hebshire and he would talk about,

there were games weren't being telecast and they wanted the footage for Sportsline. And yeah, they would pay some local guy to record it. So say St. Louis, a game in St. Louis wasn't,

wasn't being on TV. So he, St. Louis Blues would get someone for him. The Leafs would pay. And Roger said once he was trying to set up with a person and the anthem started. And he couldn't make it down to the bench. He's literally with a minute before. But Randy Carlisle was part of that team too.

And he talked about the all-time clip. He said when they're in the Central League the year before with Dallas, and Roger has to splice the tape together. And he's showing Barkley Plager, God rest his soul, the tough Plager brothers. With the Brylcreem. Yeah, he got sent down to the Kansas City Blues. He's 36 years old.

And he's no helmet. And he's got Brylcreem in his hair. And he goes down to block a slap shot. You know, and Roger showed that about commitment. He said, that's the ultimate commitment. And Randy Carlos says, I still think of that almost every day all these years later. But about how the tools of video and how they're used by everybody now. So Roger was way ahead of his time.

And that was a big part of the success that year. And this is a good time to say, if you buy this book, Revival, you will get that Gord Stelic story and more. This book is chock full of Gord Stelic stories. Oh yeah, we're just like tip of the iceberg here today. And a free tube of Brylcreem. Yep. I don't use it as much anymore. You could put it in the beard, I think.

Mike Palmatier. Creepy. Talk to me about Mike Palmatier back in 77, 78. So everyone loves Mike Palmatier. Talk to me about Mike Palmatier back in 77, 78. So everyone loves Mike Palmatier. So it's this funny thing that he's this incredible popular goaltender. And then he goes to Florida, like, I mean, retires, then comes back and he becomes a really great hockey scout. And he wants to keep a low profile.

Like, you know, he just wants to keep a low profile so when i talked to him because you know i have a good relationship with him and he it wasn't that he was leery but he kind of and then he said to me even at the end he goes because you know i i i kind of i kind of i'm kind of off the grid and i like it that way which is strange for such a hugely wildly popular goaltender. And his goaltending was a big part of their success that year and in the playoffs. So probably, Damien, what, a three-year period, three years, just a meteoric rise and sensational goaltending. So he was just a neat personality, undersized goalie, but we learned so much about him, why he was a great skater, because he'd been a great out player player and all that stuff so he was a great at toronto kid toronto kid

and from the time he was 15 or so terrible knee problems knee problems knee problems that ultimately ended his career and probably stopped him from becoming the goalie he could have been in absolutely total because he was so athletic and so instinctive. There's a save, if you go back, that he makes in the Islanders in game seven that is just so off the charts, ridiculous. And it was just athleticism. And he played the position at a time when the position was played athletically before the equipment became and changed the the position forever but you know he was actually in toronto for a very short period of time yeah and then he came back but he came back again for a short period of time but i will swear when you when i talk to people

about this book and you go okay salming and sittler and mcdonald and Tiger and the next name is always Mike Palmatier and uh I I'm not sure who you would compare him to um in Toronto sports history as an athlete who is looked upon so fondly um he was kind of you know in a way I guess the best comparison from a Leaf history would be in terms of pure popularity would be Wendell Clark. Yeah. You know, and he was also, I mean,

Johnny Bauer was the guy who would, and whenever he'd show up at the gardens or at the new building, always get astounding ovation. Well, Mike Palmatier was in many ways, the new Johnny Bauer when he came through because of the way he played the game, just fearless stick your face right in front of it.

And absolutely fearless, but he didn't get to play very long and very shortly after that series in 70 78 which he won game seven there's no question in my mind if mike palmatier doesn't stand on his head in game seven the islanders win that series and within a year and a half he he's gone. He's gone to Washington in a trade. And that was part of the whole breaking up. We're going to, we're going to dive into that breaking up of the squad here, but you mentioned Johnny Bauer and it is the holiday season.

Sing along, Gord. Honky the Christmas goose. So the first year of the fan or first or second year of the fan, so there'd be these interesting pairings around the holidays. I remember Todd Macklin had the line, he goes, it looked like a WWF wrestling team. You never knew which two, because I think it was one time

Steve Paikin went in the studio with Leo Cahill or something. Because he had all these people filling in, right? So Christmas Eve, McCowan wasn't doing primetime sports, so Ken Daniels and I did a show till 6 p.m. or 7, filled in just a Christmas Eve show, and we got Johnny Bauer on, and he wanted, so he sang this over the phone while his wife Nancy played the organ.

It was the best. It was the best. We weren't expecting it either. We kind of talked, and he just because johnny's this nice genuine guy it sounds like at this time of year that's when uh radio became kind of like a podcast right more free form and uh our show was always free no no it was but i when ken daniel's son passed away a number of years ago and one thing i referenced they said man oh man i still uh i i think about the the happy memory like johnny bauer and all that you know kind of thing and he goes man oh man ken goes i wish i could do that a million times over like just that that was a fun

memory about about that i kind of was i'm stuck on your wrestling analogy and it was always and it's so true you know you'd be watching on TV and you'd have the fabulous Kangaroos tag team and they'd be taking on Dominic DiNucci and then Joe Smith. Yeah. And you knew

there was no chance that Dominic DiNucci was going to emerge with a win and Joe Smith was the guy who was going to get pummeled at the end

and the fabulous Kangaroos were going to hang on to their belts. But, how about that for a reference? That's pretty good. Thank you.

And then neither one of them were australian um the uh uh johnny bauer oh uh one of the nicest people i think i've ever met and one year he came out with his book and i one of the greatest honors maybe the greatest honor of my sports media uh life was he was doing a reading of his book at the queen's park uh you know they do the thing up there with the book yeah and they're gonna do and he asked me if i would sit down with him and ask him the question so he could do it i go johnny that's neat johnny bauer yeah um and what a treasure man a treasure okay so that was a big 10 50 jam there johnny bauer we talked right over it the whole thing.

Yeah, that's okay. People can find it on YouTube, but there's another jam I always... Including us talking? When I think... If you want, I could put that on YouTube. When I think of Maple Leaf songs from back in the day, anyways... What, Clear the Track? Is that what you're going to play?

Yeah. Like this is the best They bunch right This is as good as it got I'd say It was a hit On AM radio Yeah What's

Catchy AF I dig it Like it's Clear the track Here come Shaq Now this was at a time When It was a hit on AM radio. What's catchy AF? I dig it. Like, it's clear the track, here comes Shaq. Now, this was at a time when songs like The Streak could be top ten hits, too. Oh, this is like ten years before that. This would have been... Like, this is when they're winning Stanley Cups. Oh, you're right.

You're right. This is mid-60s. Yeah, like novelty songs, like Purple People Eater and stuff like that. Because the book talks about later on when he comes back again, Eddie skating around, being chased by the tough St. Louis Blues team was an embarrassment for the Leaf organization that realized they had to get tougher. And Tiger Williams got called up after that. No, they drafted him.

And then they started bringing in Dave Dunn. All those guys. And Kurt Walker. And I say that with affection. I like Eddie. Eddie used to hold court at the Starbucks at Avenue Road and Glencairn, or Avenue Road and St. Germain, Kitty Corner from Safari. His loud voice there.

And, yeah, we miss him. He's an unusual player, too, because in NHL history, in that when he came back in the 70s with expansion, he was kind of like a goofball kind of player. But early in his career with the Leafs, he was a serious player and a very good, big, strong winger who could score goals. Yeah. This is Gord Stelich's wedding song.

Did you know that? The first dance, right? This was it, yes. All right, a couple more gifts for you guys. I have wireless speakers. So you each have one of these. These are Bluetooth wireless speakers for you to take home with you. Where's the wire?

Well, that's the idea of wireless. Gordon and I grew up in an era where the speakers we'd get were like four feet high. Oh, I know. And the bigger the speaker, the better the sound. Woofers and tweeters. Right, right. Subwoofers, everything. Whatever they were.

So why did I give you those wireless speakers? Well, Moneris sent them over because I like you. I do. I like you both. That's why I think, Damien, you must have been,

you must have been over now seven, at least seven times. I should go check this out. I have been here quite a bit. Because you had a fifth appearance and then two with Gord here.

So, and Gord's a couple behind you. Do we get jackets like they give them on Saturday Night Live for five? I'm working on it. Can we get jackets?

I need a jacket sponsor. I'd love that. That would be good. What a great skit that was. Oh, it was awesome. The five-person club, five visits club. Gord's the one guy. Gord and Brendan Shanahan are the few people who watch Saturday Night Live as much as I do.

You're still watching, aren't you? Dribs and drabs. Brendan Shanahan wrote the foreword for your book. He did. Wasn't that nice mimico mimico's own brendan shanahan he's garnered a real appreciation i mean the boya thing um i mean a lot of people would have but bore but brendan being an ex-player in that they really did everything right they couldn't do enough like the alumni daryl talked about that and he's got a

brendan's got a real appreciation about the alumni but also in living in the present as well but also his own experience growing up in Mimico and the way he saw that team broken up which I know we're going to get to and so every time I hear people like last spring oh

they're going to get rid of Marner or Nylander or Matthews and no they're not because he rid of Marner or Nylander or Matthews. No, they're not. Because he saw what happens when you just start breaking things up because you're unhappy because you lost again. And that's not going to happen. Right. Absolutely.

Okay, so why did I give you that speaker? It's because you can now listen to season five of Yes, We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast by Mineris, hosted by FOTM El Grego. I will definitely be seeing El Grego tomorrow at TMLX 14 at Palmas Kitchen, and I hope to see Damien Cox make an appearance. I would put Damien Cox and Stephen Brunt on the microphones. I have two open mics for this recording.

We had coffee the other day. We have nothing left to talk about. Well, you haven't said anything on the record in a while. So if you show up, that would be amazing. But the podcast, Yes, We Are Open. Really putting the pressure on.

When Al went out east, he went to the Maritimes in Newfoundland and he spoke to small business owners and he collected their inspiring stories and he shares them in season five of Yes, We Are Open. And while you're subscribing to podcasts, there's two more I'd like to tell you guys about. One of them is called the Advantaged Investor Podcast from Raymond

James Canada. Whether you already work with a trusted financial advisor or currently manage your own investment plans, the Advantaged Invest investor provides the engaging wealth management information you value as you pursue your most important goals. So you got some podcasts to subscribe to. I want to shout out Ridley Funeral Home. We did a new episode of Life's Undertaking yesterday and Brad has sent over measuring tapes for you guys.

Oh. Yeah. So you got a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. I've always wanted one of these with gour's rounds because then I can measure his ego. So one thing about Harold Ballard, he went to a lot of funerals. And you just would get drafted. I don't, you know, and so he's loaded up the big car.

And I go to like Usher's funeral. They met a lot when he showed up, right? So he went and I didn't like going to funerals all the time, but you just, hey, Gordy, we're going to go. So you load it up. And then when he came back, he'd go, do you see the undertaker's eyeing me? He goes, he's going to be a big one.

Well, and one of my favorite stories that I've tried to fit in a couple of books and I've failed every time is, is uh do you know who buried jeff merrick jeff merrick physically buried he's at parkland cemetery yeah yeah taken i've biked over and seen the uh it's only on the ground though it's not one of those like stones it's like it's not a big deal no it's just you yeah it's not as big a deal say as steve staff oh my gosh if people haven't seen it if you're driving north on mont pleasant look to your left before you hit you would have thought he won like 12 stanley cups

and he's got a big one in park lawn is uh melnick uh eugene melnick is a massive uh in in yeah because i do the biking through park really it's a It's a big one, yeah. I like Merrick said, somebody on their tombstone has, I told you I wasn't feeling well. I love that. You talk about someone with a sense of humor. That's fantastic. So one last thing on the sponsor front, which is recyclemyelectronics.ca.

That's where you go if you have old cables, old devices, old electronics, you need to throw out. Don't put it in the garbage. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca and find a place near you where you could drop it off and have it properly recycled so the chemicals don't end up in our landfill.

That's a better idea than what I do. I just drop them on Gord's front lawn. And then Gord goes to recyclemyelectronics.ca. Okay. Revival, the chaotic, colorful journey of the 1977-78 Toronto Maple Leafs. They win that first round convincingly against the Kings. Then there's this very exciting seven-game series

against the Islanders just before they bang off, I think, four in a row shortly thereafter. But then we're kind of trounced by Montreal. So my question for you guys is, and you do cover it nicely in the book, but Imlac, I'm going to read from your book now. Okay, so Imlac listed Sittler, Lanny McDonald, Ian Turnbull,

Borea Salming, and goalie Mike Palmatier as the keys to the team's future. Meanwhile, as I learned in your book, Lanny was gone six months later because of this Imlac feud with Sittler, who had a no-trade clause. Palmatier was traded six months after Lanny. Turnbull had scored in three straight playoff games

in his brilliant spring of 1978, and it would be another 45 years, this is a fun fact, before another Leaf defenseman, Morgan Riley, would match that postseason feat. But that didn't matter to Imlach. He sent Turnbull to Los Angeles a year after Paul Metier had been dealt to Washington,

and then finally, Darryl Sittler was dealt in January 1982. So that's two and a half years that all those guys were gone. What the heck happened? Well, I was working in the office back then. So you were part of this. I was working part-time. You were part of this decision-making. And what happened the second year, 78-79,

the fun year didn't exist anymore. Harold wasn't happy with the lack of improvement on the team. He was expecting bigger things. And King Clancy, who's always viewed as the court jester, actually had a big, big role in Harold's ear. And he convinced him that Punch Imlach, because he'd been Punch Imlach's right hand man when through the four stanley cups when punch went to buffalo some people thought king would go but he stayed he became ballard's right hand man so he convinced

him to bring punch him like back so meanwhile by the way he did not trade ian turnbull jerry jerry mcdermott did ian turnbull is the one who conned Punch Imlek he's he's a different dude so he did his he did his contract by himself he had a restaurant across from the gardens called Grapes and he would come in Imlek told me the story he goes and Turnbull would come in and do the guy oh this is great I like you know hanging around and he and uh and we're gonna and then he just disappeared and he after you signed the contract and Punch goes he conned me you know so that that Ian Turnbull always being the contrarian but i gotta tell you so punch came in and was sold it was a country club he said and he saw he sold ballot on that and he was he said that about the court he's going to get rid of them all because uh that's what he that's what clancy had sold

ballot on they had to do and i gotta tell you punch imlac the second time around was a disaster you punch imlac the second time around was a disaster punch imlac treated gourd stellick extremely well so i when i say i'm torn i'm not really torn i'm spelling it out there the man was wonderful to me wonderful to me and uh but it he you know he'd lost his a game and he came in and to damien's point earlier when everyone talks about well we're going to blow it up yeah that's an example you blow it up. Yeah. That's an example. You blow it up. You know how long it takes to get put back together? Decades.

Yeah. And I think, you know, the motivation is still hard to figure out in a way that he, there was a personal feud with Sittler for sure, which had to do with showdown and all that stuff. And Eagleson. And Eagleson.

So that was a big part of it. And, but all that said and eagleson and eagleson so that was a big part of it and but all that said like there's there's nothing wrong with trading a player you know the islanders had to trade a veteran player like dave lewis but they made a great trade right all they traded all these guys mcdonald palmatier turnbull sittler and none of them did they get i mean they got wilf paymont back for lanny who was a a very good nhl player but he wasn't lanny mcdonald not a hall of famer yeah and so if you're going to trade guys then there was no salary cap you could have done anything right um and instead they just made one bad and another because you're making trades out of the wrong motivations

and you're making trades. What'd they get for Turnbull? John Gibson. Yeah. There's no pro scouting back then. Right. As well. So Punch is doing this like, you know,

basically on his own, whatever. You know, and at that point he's in his mid-60s. He's not following it as much, and he's just. And he's got health problems. Yeah, that's right. Actually, yeah, he died relatively young. He had had a number of heart attacks and bypass surgery. And some organizations were modernizing,

and the Leafs, despite the modernization that Roger Nielsen brought to the organization, weren't. You know, teams were starting to beef up. Teams were starting to use or beef up their scouting departments. And the merger was coming. And so there was going to be even more, like it was more complicated. It was becoming more complicated. And Europeans were on the verge of coming to the NHL.

There were more Americans who could play. You needed to do more. And the Leafs at that time weren't in a position or chose not to do those things. There were five or six organizations back in, say, 18-team NHL or whatever number it was. They were just better. You started the year that those teams were better. They were better run. And nowadays, I think every organization has the staff and is

relatively speaking well run and that's even i started gourd was when i started covering the nhl in in the late 80s there were still teams that were a joke you know that that were run by like guys just off the cuff and with poor or but now there aren't i I mean, they're all well-organized. They all have money. They all, you know, I mean, I guess the exception would be whatever that organization they have in Phoenix is or Arizona, but even they're doing pretty well these days. I mean, there just aren't those kinds of organizations.

But in the 70s, there was a lot of goofy stuff that went on, a lot of in-the-drawer agreements that weren't part of, you know, the union wasn't as strong and the owners most of the owners like getting headlines right it was get your name in the paper now keep your name out of the paper i mean they did it's just a cloak of like you know where is ross atkins you know where where is uh where was kyle dubas where are all these guys like they can just make appearances when they want you used to have to shoot the breeze every day yeah i mean one of the nice things about Michael Anlau

coming in and taking over Ottawa is it's nice to hear an owner talk. Yeah. What other owner in the NHL talks these days? They used to all talk today, and in the 70s, I mean, it was kind of the Wild West. Wow, so I'm kind of glad I don't remember this in real time, the 77- 78 Leafs, because it seemed like you had that moment of hope

and you had a good core, and then you're excited for the future, and then very, very quickly it's all blowing up. Yep. Sad. That's a lunch bag letdown. Kind of like, and we draw this parallel in the book, is kind of like how fans of the Montreal Expos feel about the strike year

when they were the best team in baseball and maybe had a chance to win the World Series, and you'll never know. And the fact is we'll never know with the Leafs. Saying the word magical, I know it sounds like a corny word, but if you're a diehard fan, that's how you felt that season and that playoff, and that's same with the Expos because I was an Expo fan as well.

But the Leafs, you thought it was the beginning. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Not the cup necessarily this year,

but this is, yeah, we're there. We're up there with a Boston, Philadelphia, Montreal. We're there. But okay.

So we're swept by the Habs, right? In the, in the final. Yeah. Yeah. Three of the games went to overtime in the, I think three went to overtime and,

or two did anyway. And they were the best team in the league. So that's something Harold didn't say. The best team by a country mile in the league.

So there was no shame. Maybe the greatest dynasty in NHL history. Yeah. You'd have to put them up there. Maybe as great a team as there ever was.

Yeah. The Chicago Bulls of the NHL there. Absolutely. Okay. So I'm going to do a little mop up here. I do a little mop-up here. I do urge everybody who has...

We spilled something. The Revival is the book to buy for the hockey fan in your life this holiday season. And let me see it. So it's hardcover. You can't get that in a stocking, but it's too good for a stocking stuffer. It's just a gift unto itself.

So pick up Revival at Gord's house. No, no. Reach out if you want an autographed copy. You can find it wherever you get your books. Very good. I loved going back because I missed 7778, and I found it interesting. A lot of those details I didn't know.

But okay, some questions did come in from FOTMs. Are they going to be nice ones or mean ones? No, actually, I had many mean ones, and I decided I'd only read the one mean one, and we'll just put it all into that one mean email everything else here is is is loving for you guys mike ragotsky wrote in stellick and cox are great yes both of you he says okay can you ask them who was their favorite leafs coach to deal with well by default because when the fan launched like pat burns like like the timing of it all doesn't mean he was a better guy than the others but he liked the media like the limelight

liked us so uh we could uh i i remember once we were trying to talk about i think glenn anderson was going to get a thousand career points. So we had Norm Ullman on about, cause he'd got it as a leaf and Norm's pretty low key and it wasn't a big, and it wasn't a big deal. So he burns on, he goes, I'm listening to your show.

You guys are really driving on the wall there about this thousand, you know? And, and so, so I mean, Pat, Pat Quinn wasn't as media friendly. I really did like Pat Quinn though,

but I guess for me, I don't know, Damien, just at the time of it all, Pat Burns was the guy. And he was a guy that, I mean, they listened back then. That's where they got their sports from. We had Todd Gill call in once to try to win free Leaf tickets. We didn't have Leaf tickets on the playoff game, and Todd Gill's driving home, and he was the fourth caller out of 10 trying to get two tickets.

That's amazing. know well I mean and you know I I had some some special times with uh with Pat uh that's for sure um in terms of a of doing the job he could be tough on you though like he could be really tough on you the the guy who I really enjoyed dealing with when he was coached from a media point of view. Murph. Paul Maurice. Oh, Paul Maurice. Okay. Paul Maurice was wonderful to deal with and still is wonderful to deal with.

Murph was great. But Murph was – He was just there for a bit. He was so under the gun too. Oh, I know. He barely had a chance. He didn't have the support. Paul Maurice was really great to deal with.

And that's why he was great in media. Like in between, he was great at TSN before he took Winnipeg in here. Yeah, I know. How about the worst? The worst? You want to know the worst? Yeah, who are the worst? Yeah.

Well, Doug Carpenter would be right up there. But for me, it was Pat Quinn. I did not get along with Pat Quinn at all. Yeah, well, see, again, I knew Pat. But he wouldn't do much on media and that. So he would be, I don't know, I'm trying to think the worst. The worst. I just think Ron Wilson was terrible.

Oh, yeah. Like, that was ridiculous. The guy comes. It really was. The guy comes as the coach of the San Jose Sharks. He gets asked a question in Calgary by Jermaine Franklin about, you know, something about they changed captains. And he goes, that's the goddamn Canadian media, the bloody Canadian media.

And then we hire him in Toronto two years later. And he shows up with a, he's got a passport because he's got dual citizenship. I'm like, look, I'm a Canadian. Yeah, not a lot of time for us. See, I remember in 77, he was part of the team. He got sent down to Dallas once and I remember him and Rocky Saganuk

and they waited outside to get their airplane tickets and I remember him saying, well, at least I can play golf in Dallas. That's one of the amazing things on that Dallas team. They had, I think it was the next year, they had Ron Wilson, Randy Carlisle, got sent down, Joel Quenville, wasn't there one more?

Bruce Boudreaux Bruce Boudreaux and Daryl Sutter and they all became and Daryl Sutter because Chicago was part of the team yeah

oh right and they all became NHL head coaches wow Hayref is actually watching live at live.toronomike.com where's the camera?

there actually so it's sort of a weird angle but yeah it's there I would have sat up straight sitting with my big gut hanging out here. Sorry, Hey Ref.

Yeah, don't worry. Hey Ref, he referees games and he wants to ask. Evidently, they yell at him a lot. Gord Stelic, the question for Gord is, how long has it been since you were behind a GTHL bench? Oh, phenomenal memories, man. And actually, I appreciate the men and women that ref those games.

Did you yell at the referees? No, I really didn't. I never got, I didn't, I was vocal about the team in that, you know, I just, you know, in a good way, in a good way. I really got into the games quite a bit. So to answer the question, let's see, I think, I think, well, when COVID hit was sort of my

last year that I was doing that. So it was that 2020, and it wasn't as much fun because the kids were, you know, the kids were 16. So it used to be that, and we were at a tournament in Buffalo. So when the kids were eight or nine or 10, like I coached at North Toronto, really enjoyed it, special time. And then when they're 16, just a month before COVID, we're in Buffalo and it's pricey.

And we're playing Toronto teams that are in Buffalo. And then I get called by security to try to identify which of our kids were peeing in a garbage can. You know what? We've kind of jumped the shark here. What happened to these nice team lunches, that team meals that we used to have, whatever. I think we jumped the shark there.

Amazing. Now, I'm curious if either of you has had any contact with Bob McCowan since his health challenges. I have. I have. Okay. Just by text, back and forth a little bit. And Bob's had a real tough time in his life.

And, you know, we're all hoping for him. You know, he's in a real tough spot. John Shannon's being a really good friend. Yeah, he sure is. He really is. Yeah. Really is. So, yeah, I mean, just exchanged a couple of things just to sort of wish him well and tell him I was thinking about him.

You know, and geez, a lot of years working with Bob and to see him in that situation is tough. Yeah, that was terrible news. And I hope he fully recovers. Okay, so I've saved a series of questions from a gentleman named Manfred. Manfred has a band called Elephants and Stars. And Manfred, I hope I see you tomorrow at TMLX 14 because I know you were at the last event

we had at Palma's Kitchen. But okay, Manfred writes in, as someone who still defends the cordic for cortinal trade i have the following questions so the first question is for gourd stellick how did gourd feel about it at the time and sorry versus now in retrospect so yeah revisit how you felt at the time about the court. No trade. And then I can answer that. How do you feel now?

You know what? No, I'm going to, cause Gord gets beat up about this. And the only thing I will say before you carry on and answer his question is Gord was trying to help his coach, which is what a general manager should to some degree do. He was trying to help his coach. Go ahead.

So, uh, at the Chisholm bonds bill this past weekend i was about to uh the first rock was being thrown and one of the guys that cleans the ice said to me i think he's a little different but anyway i've never talked to him before he goes did you trade tom curvers for a first overall pick and i kind of go what the f you don't i said no i quickly put it on floyd smith but anyway and it wasn't a first overall pick. So the point that Damien said, I knew I inherited John Brophy as head coach.

And you know what? Broph was a wonderful guy. Wonderful guy. Like, really was. Like, just shouldn't have been coaching the NHL. People could argue I shouldn't be a general manager in the NHL. Whatever. But I mean, so he was my coach.

And I put out a lot of fires between in general with certain players uh about things but russ cortnell was a guy that got under bro skin he's just this good looking guy not a physical guy chirpy so there were a couple things and we get off to a solid start. And one, he wanted our team to be more physical. We had two bad games against the Boston Bruins and the LA Kings that were both, and Proff was going nuts. And also in Cortland's case, I remember we're in Chicago, like we got off this eight, three and one start in the first 12 games.

Unfortunately, there were 68 more games in the season, but he had, he wasn't, he wasn't in the lineup, and he just came out. And I realized then, like I was crestfallen, I said, Rush, just mind your P's and Q's, whatever. I'll figure something out if this isn't going to happen. He played Danny Daou ahead of him. So they loved John Cordick. Our pro scouting was on the weaker side, to say the least.

So Brofe was a member of the Montreal Canadian organization in 1986. He was coaching in Nova Scotia, where John Cordick was a big part. His toughness and a part of them winning the Stanley Cup. And he was tough. Oh, tough. So he was the number one heavyweight, okay? So it came down to that about making the trade and uh uh anyway it couldn't and one thing did you have any other offers did you have any no no

there's there's nobody else that that has said geez i offered you know damian cox that's the thing you know russ was a healthy scratch for, say, four of the first 12 games. And one thing punched him, like, did he trade at Lanny McDonald to Colorado? There was a reason. You never saw Lanny McDonald. I wasn't thinking that way. You saw Russ every Saturday scoring twice for Montreal, it seemed. But anyway, so the trade's made.

And John Kordick did the job for a while. But we didn't, you know,'t weren't aware of he also punched alan best well we weren't aware of the troubles he had endured since 1986 and when cam neely got into the hockey hall of fame so this is when you're fast forwarding so i used to be the kind of the mc for all those things so you're chatting before the fan forum upstairs behind and we were had like a 10 minute conversation about john cordick how good because he played with him at portland and how great a player he was he was an all-star defenseman in portland and here's cam neely and then cam neely said he stayed a week at cordick's

house in edmonton because they had a they had a power skating person there audrey bakel was her name in edmonton so the portland guys obviously put him there and he goes he was he was terrified of his old man yeah it was a mess so it's a messed up place so and he got in i don't know by the time you got him whether he had a drug problem already by the way yeah and probably today you would know more about that kind of thing but yeah then you would not so i i what i feel bad about was he was a funny guy there There was a lot to John Kordick. There really was. And there was a lot to John Brophy.

He was messed up. There was. There was just, you know, so it's not like, it's amazing that I was walking on Yonge Street last year, beautiful July day, and I'm walking with someone, and all of a sudden a car comes by, and the guy goes, Kordo for Kordick! And the guy goes, what, are you kidding me?

30-plus years later? Like, there's been all these other trades that have happened. But I think on a positive side for me, it shows I've stayed relevant and have some notoriety on the media side. And I don't make fun of it or make light of it because, hey, it's a bad trade. Of course it's a bad trade, you know, as it played out. Okay, I can start talking two first-round picks for Ken Gregg,

Brad Marsh on the waiver draft, Lou Francesetti for a fifth, Robert Amish for a second. Anyway, leave all that stuff alone. And then because there's the human side of it, and it's a tragic ending for a guy that really, there were a lot of positives at one point. Well, you touched on this, but this question is for both of you because there's three parts to this question remember the second part was uh manfred wants to know what was john cordick like to deal with personally but you did touch on it

but maybe elaborate a little more like what kind of a human being was he when you uh dealt with him yeah i dealt with him a lot from a media point of view and spent a lot of time talking to him on the phone and stuff like that. He was a guy who had really nice qualities but really negative qualities. Obviously, he was dealing with a drug issue eventually. All the guys who were enforcers, you know, they all talk a big game, but it's an awful job to have to do, particularly back then when every night you know you're going gonna have to fight some big nasty guy um and also you know he didn't have he wasn't a great team guy you know and so he would he would say stuff for a reporter it was helpful um but he'd talk about his teammates

and he'd say things about his teammates and the leafs at that time were a messed up organization um in terms of relationships with some of their players and that so he could be he he you know he needed a he needed a father figure he needed a dad yeah he needed someone to what he needed was for the team to say hang on you're not playing anymore we're going to send you to rehab and we're going to help you get your life together even if you never play hockey again but at that time and i would argue still today all they want is these guys to come in behave like goons and then when they're they can't fight anymore they just get rid of them they had talked about now he was only here for like a year and a half and again we're talking the worst time of his life okay but for example to damien's point then i was gone by

the time he got sent down to the new market saints briefly so he played on a friday there and they had a road trip on a saturday so apparently in those two days he fell asleep at the meeting and snored loudly he almost got a fight a fight with a teammate on the bench he wanted his own time to be the class yeah and then at the end when the bus ride home he cheered loudly when someone said the Leafs had lost, they got the NHL. He was vying for attention, vying for love,

vying for a lot of things. And by the time he got here, he was hanging out in all the wrong places, you know, and that's just a tragic tale. Yeah. It's so sad.

Okay. Final question here from Manfred. It's not about Joe Kordick, is it? Yeah. Well, it's a trilogy.

He's a member. He opened by saying, break coming up. Well, we're going to wrap after this question. Okay. I'll play you out here. It's like I'm old.

No, we're done in like five minutes. Does Damien remember getting a random phone call from a young person expressing concerns for John Cordick near the end of his Leafs tenure? Do you have any memory of this, Damien Cox? I don't have a memory of it uh but i'm not that it might have happened but i don't um so what people just randomly call the star they just okay and at that time like i said i would like i'd be talking to john cordick late at night

and you know when he was so um it's possible that somebody called me but i don't remember well i think that somebody must have been Manfred. Otherwise, you wouldn't know about that. So it sounds like you got a call from Manfred at the end of John Cordick's Time is a Maple Leaf. He's not in the book, by the way. Is this the bathroom break point of our program? Yeah, you can totally go right now because I'm just going to read a little.

I'll probably hit my head if I don't. Don't hit your head. You're one of the first people to bang that ceiling really hard here. I had a huge cut in my head. It still hasn't healed, and that was years ago. Don't forget to sign these books before we go.

Open head wound Harry. So Damien's going to go pee. Yes, that's right. Revival is the name of the new book by Gord Stelic and Damien Cox. Gentlemen, I actually love it when you are,

I'm not trying to act surprised here, but I love it when you guys come on together and I hope we can do this again sometime. This was great.

Well, it sounds good. Always been good, you know. Yeah. I got to get out of here so Damien doesn't wait. Always been good. Okay.

It was real good. That was real good. Okay. It was real good. That was real good. Thanks. And that brings us to the end of our 1,387th show. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. Damien's on Twitter as Damo Spin. And Gord, you're at Gord Stelic.

Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's Raymond James Canada. That's Mineris. That's Recycle My Electronics. And Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow live from Palma's Kitchen.

It's TMLX 14. You should join us. You've been under my skin for more than eight years. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up rosy and gray

Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow Won't stay a day And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and gray Well, I've been told That there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who. Yeah, I wonder who.

Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray.