Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Gord Stellick: Toronto Mike'd #324

Episode Date: April 11, 2018

Mike chats with Gord Stellick about his years working for Harold Ballard, being the youngest GM in NHL history, his transition to broadcasting, The Fan 1430 and 590 and what he's up to now.

Welcome to episode 324 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot.

Download the app today from paytm.ca. And our newest sponsor, Camp Tournesol, the leading French summer camp provider in Ontario. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me, how do I build this gentleman? Let's call him former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Gord Stelic. I've been milking it for 30 years, Mike, or 28, whatever it may be.

So, yeah, great to be here. Listen, keep milking it, my friend. That's why you're here. I was thinking when you're coming over, I go, Gord, I don't want to keep these things. I don't want to go over two hours, but I could do several hours just asking you about our pal Hal, like about Harold Ballard. Yeah. several hours just asking you about our pal Howell, like about Harold Ballard. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny. Nowadays with so many schools for everything, right?

And you cover the media extensively, and there was Ryerson, Ryerson Television Arts, and that was pretty well about it. And there were other like Seneca and that, but I mean, not to the extent that we're now. So you, and I wish younger people got the chance to learn on the job. And he taught me to think on the chance to learn on the job.

And he taught me to think on my feet, to say the least. Working for Harold Ballard taught you to think on your feet, expect the unexpected. And that really holds you in good stead wherever you may go, especially in this media business. And be very honest, this is the home of the real talk. Are you sick of guys like me asking you Harold Ballard questions? Absolutely not. And I, you know, it defines an era. It's amazing, Mike, that actually today's the anniversary that he died. Today's the anniversary that he died.

1990, right? Yeah. And Jeff Merrick always kids that his first job as working in a cemetery was digging the Harold Ballard grave, which morbidly a lot of people would have volunteered for. And there's a lot of positives about the man. It sounds weird. I mean, the era is just looked at with such disdain.

And Steve Stavro was no better. And that's not like saying, which way do you want to be executed? Lethal injection or electric chair. But, you know, just he was and the teacher's pension for a lot of years weren't a lot better as far as the record went. And it's just that Harold was so, like,

I don't know, what would he do nowadays with things like this, your show, and the social media. You could say he might be the Donald Trump version of a hockey owner. I don't. But he was in that bunker and you could talk to him. So as much as you were pissed off about what was going on with the Leafs, there he was.

So there was a face to it, which nowadays this facelessness component is one of the things we struggle with in corporations and sports teams. No, you said it. Actually, later for the youngins listening who might not remember the Ballard era, I have a little clip of Harold Ballard just to get a taste of him, and we'll dive deeper into the Harold Ballard. I want to say you're one of the great Canadian Gords. Gord, I find, is a very Canadian name, and a lot of great Canadians have the name Gord.

Yeah, you know, there was the Jerry Howarth, and you're going, geez, Gord, how are you going to tie this in? I'm ready to go. I love it. His final day on the, and he was on with Jeff Blair on the fan, and he was retiring as a Jays broadcaster, and I had finished doing my SiriusXM NHL Network show at 10, so I got to catch the last hour. He was on with Jeff for two hours.

So I'm listening, and there's this tribute upon tribute upon tribute, and I'm almost thinking of phoning in, but then I hear Jeff say, oh, the calls are all jammed up and whatever. So I don't. Then, of course, Eric Smith, of all people, phones in. Right. I got a better story than Eric. So but when Jerry took over from early when was the color guy for the first four years with the Jays. So Jerry takes over.

And back then there wasn't enough money to do it full time the first couple of years. So he was doing reporting for CJCL. They weren't CKFH anymore. They were CJCL 1430. And the station was quite close to Maple Leaf Gardens. So actually, I think it was 1980, he starts the first couple of years, Jerry Howarth. That's what I wanted to phone in about because I know he would have enjoyed it because I've known Jerry for years, but he had to cover the Leafs.

There was no Raptors or anybody then, but he had to cover the Leafs in the offseason. So he had to earn money by doing that. So this wonderful, nice Jerry was there with the usual media horde. And it was a media horde back then because the papers were quite competitive and everybody, whether it was John Iaboni and Frank frank or and james christie and on and on and on and then every radio station had a sports guy there was no fan so cfrb and cky and chum and and cfdr everybody had somebody there whether it was john badham or or rick hodge or or fred uh you know fred locking whatever so this guy jerry Jerry Hauer's there,

and he just looks like your science teacher, right? This unassuming guy, but start chatting it up with him. And it was about the second or third time I met him, and he's from Utah, and he just said, I never heard Gord in my life. He goes, I come to Canada, and there's all these Gords. Everybody's a Gord. And when I was doing the Leafs travel,

so I would have to phone hotels. There was not the email world back then. And you see it's in rooming lists. And then you would call and confirm stuff. And just people would say, who's calling? And I'd say, Gord Stelic. Can you spell it, please? And I'd go, S-

No, no, no, your first name. Sometimes people would be puzzled. They didn't know what the hell the Gord was. There was a Gordon on Sesame Street. There was. Yeah, that's right. Out of nowhere. Because you got Gordon Red Berenson, you got Gordie

Howe, you know, the list goes on and on. Gord Downie of Canadians, but yeah, Sesame Street, although it didn't seem to make the name popular. Right, right. And then in the mid-80s, or mid to late 80s, Alf, his real name was Gordon Shumway. Yeah, I know. I liked Alf too. I know it was a corny, crappy show, and I even got

no, maybe not crappy, but I even got a Alf doll, or Alf, whatever it was. Alf had a moment, okay? There was definitely corny, crappy show, and I even got, no, maybe not crappy, but I even got an elf doll or elf, whatever it was. There was an elf had a moment, okay? There was definitely a moment. So yeah, you mentioned Gordie Howe, Gord Downie, Gordon Pinsent, Gord Sinclair, Gord Lightfoot, which I just played. Gord Lightfoot, Gord Red Berenson. I don't even know that.

That's a Gord I might not even be aware of. Yeah, well, I mean, Red Berenson, obviously, and then Robert Gordon Orr. I don't know if that counts, but Gord Depp from Spoons, who was just here, he's a great Canadian Gord, and Gord Martineau, longtime City TV,

with Ann Roszkowski. And I grew up reading novels by Gordon Corman. He's a Canadian. He wrote for, like, young adults in the 80s as well. And you mentioned

Jerry Howarth, so I'm going to take this opportunity just to give us a little taste of Jerry. I miss him. I'll be honest. I listen to Jay's games on the radio and I'm having, I'm still coming to, I'm trying

to adapt to the new voice. I'm still in that transition period. Yeah, but I love the opportunity. It gives new people, but you're right, particularly if it's a certain ilk. And do you remember that if you were at, see, and Dan Shulman brings this up all the time. Who's here Friday, by the way.

Oh, great. Yeah. Oh, great. Follow me with a light one. That's nice. But he always points out that the radio broadcast will never be the same because TV was only on twice a week. So you go to a cottage and you could hear Tom and Jerry over the lake. You could hear it every car because there was no TV alternative.

So let me hear Jerry. Here, let's hear a little Jerry. One and one on Jose. All eyes on the mound and the bearded Sam Dyson. Now he comes set. Kicks. The one-one pitch pitch Fly ball deep left field Yes sir

There she goes And now Jerry does what I love Which is he shuts up And you get just the crowd noise This is of course the Famous 7th inning of that ALDS Game 5 against Texas. And this is the bat flip.

And I think because Tom got all the good calls on the World Series victories, this is Jerry's most famous call, I think. Well, I think, yeah. Well, that game, boy, oh, boy, that game took three hours, right? That seventh inning took an hour. And, you know, it's interesting, Mike, that early win was neat, but he was the old-fashioned color guy. And so they brought Jerry in,

and it's no secret Tom and Jerry weren't best friends. Most duos aren't. You know, Brian McFarland will talk about how tough it was where, you know, Bill Hewitt just, you know, not a knock against the guy. It's just, you know, whatever it may be. And Tom and Jerry were kind of both play-by-play guys. And after a while, I don't think even think fans noticed it.

They were only together about two innings a game, like the first inning and the last inning. Right. And then they kind of went in and out themselves doing play-by-play and not a hell of a lot of color that way. So it was, so when Tom unfortunately passed away, I mean, the color guy normally doesn't become play-by-play, but really a hell of a lot of color that way. So when Tom and Forchy passed away, I mean, the color guy normally doesn't become play-by-play, but really that's what Jerry had been all along.

Although Buck did the same thing, right? Because he was Dan Schulman's color guy, and now Buck does play-by-play. Yeah, good on Buck. That's very tough to do. And I know you've got to be careful maybe. I don't know if you don't, but I personally would have liked to have seen

Mike Wilner get more innings because I actually like the Mike Wilner call. And I like the enthusiasm he brings to the call. And I'm just saying that the new guy, Ben, he's going to have a fair chance here. He's just getting warmed up. But it seems to be a little bit chill. Maybe it doesn't quite have the punch I like. I think Wilner got a bit of a raw deal here.

Well, I mean, of those guys, the only guy I know, I'm a big Mike Wilner guy. That's all I'll say. I really am a big Mike Wilner guy, and I don't know what has gone on, and I hope Mike is happy. Well, there's no way he's happy because he's been here a few times, and he'll look me in the eyes and say,

my dream job is that when Jerry decides to retire, I get his job. So, you know, I'm just... Oh, I know. I think we need... Wilner deserves to at least call some innings. I don't hear him at all anymore. Well, again, and first of all, he said your dream job,

just like we can both come in here and say, my dream job is to be the opening day pitcher and play center ice for an NHL team in the playoffs. So he's closer to that than I am. Yeah, so that didn't happen. And I just, I hope everything's good. I assume everything's good. Okay, let's.

And we're big on Mike. We can agree on that. Yeah, we're both big Mike. I just don't know any of the facts. I know. That's all. You're right. We can't on that. Yeah, we're both big Mike. I just don't know any of the facts. I know. That's all. You're right. We can't speculate because we don't know what happened there.

I just want to do a couple of current event things before we do a little break and then come back because we got to dive in. This is going to be a tremendous deep dive, as I say. But I just want to say, I'm always a positive. I think I'm a positive person, but I can be a cynical guy. But I've been really choked up by the sticks out initiative. Like when I, at night, last night, I came home late. My son had a house league game and it was like a 9-10 start and then they had pizza and drink.

I got home at 11 o'clock last night. I had the sticks out. And then I looked at my street. I saw other, you know, homes with the sticks out. It really choked me up. Like it really does get me. Yeah. And our son, Justin, who's 14, did that as well last night.

And I go to work very early in the morning for my NHL Network show, and it really brought a smile to me. You're right. The first time, it's this weird visual, isn't it? That just, yeah, gulp. And it's the unthinkable, the unspeakable. I can remember, Mike, that I was at a New Market Saints game in 1986. And of all things, we had the hound line night. We got Wendell Clark, Russ Cortnall, and Gary Lehman

to appear up there, and the place was jammed. And Jerry McNamara was the general manager. And we heard, as you hear then, about the bus crash in Swift Current. And Jerry very diplomatically was just, hey, Wendell, where's your brother playing again? Right? Because his brother was playing in the Western Junior Hockey League. And okay, and it wasn't Swift Current.

Right, right. So, but just that kind of stuff, you know, and that was the tragedy where four of them died. Right. And actually, there's a lot more that gets into it. I mean, Graham James was the coach of that team. Graham James didn't allow counseling because he said they would heal internally and you think about where that went and that's why these guys like sheldon kennedy i just applaud

all he's been through but they got the extra whammy and that's why a lot more resources are going to be obviously offered like they are in 2018 to everybody involved there but you're saying what can i do like the bus you got four kids i got two the bus is positive school trip ski trip baseball game trip like whatever and you know and and you you just like i think in a lot of ways now it's time for it i heard people say for it uh them to you know go internally and grieve internally the town and that but just that's just the neatest gesture about there that

a legacy, and I don't know how long we're supposed to do it for. We'll do it a few more days anyway, but just to say, man, we can't feel the pain the way you do, but we feel your pain. Yes, and I was at the hockey game last night, George Bell Arena, and the players put their, I get choked up even

talking about it, but they decided to put their sticks in the hallway. So instead of in the dressing room where it always is. And that was, and it was just, yeah, that gesture. I think because it came so organically. Yeah. It's so authentic and organic and it's so pure and so Canadian. It really just strikes. Well, but think about this year, Mike,

that you start off with a team that's ready to play their first ever NHL game, and they're going to do everything. They're going to bring Siegfried and Roy out of retirement, I think. They're going to do everything, and then that happens in Vegas. So the first game, and Daryl England, the incredibly from-the-heart speech. So they end up being the galvanizing healing source, a big part, in Vegas. Then you get Florida, and they're on the road when the shooting happens. But then again, they come back and Roberto Luongo from the heart. And then the hockey team wins like their,

their hockey team sort of is the first positive for that school. They go out and win a championship. And now you have this, that like, I really marveled Saturday that just what everybody did in different arenas, the different ideas and the, and the, and you use the word organic, the organic ideas of support and camaraderie and grieving that the hockey community did. Agreed. Agreed. Do you have a prediction, Leafs versus Bruins? You know, I can't stand predicting, but I'm saying, I mean, just in general, like I love, I've got a prediction. That's your question. I've got a prediction, but just, I'm one of those guys,

that's why they play the games. Like, you know, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are playing, and in 2012, they had a series that was as stupid as anything. It was roller derby, right? It made no sense. The goaltending was out to lunch. I remember that series. They might as well pull the goaltender.

So there will be a series or two like that that us experts and the people that everyone's an expert if you're a fan. You are. But to answer your question, Leafs in six. I just got a feeling. I still have that bad taste in my mouth from that Game 7. Although, as I've said repeatedly, so I won't bore the regular listeners, the best

thing that happened to this franchise was blowing that Game 7. Because do you blow it up and go with the Shanna plan and torch the earth and get to where you are now with Marner and Nylander and, of course, Austin Matthews, if we win that game seven with Kessel and FNUF, I feel like collapsing in that game seven

led to what we're now enjoying, which is true hope at a potential championship. Is that a positive thinking? A little bit. Imagine if Matt Fratton had scored on the breakaway. But the other part, Mike, is you're right, except it goes back to the reaction they had after that game, that they said, wait,

if we had Jonathan Bernier and Goal, and David Clarkson, and, you know, if we made the, and David Boland, right? Right. And yeah, well, David Boland proved to be the real deal. It's unfortunate he got hurt, but you know, and so all of a sudden this chain reaction happened, which

was unnecessary. So you're right. The Shanna plan, you know, wasn't there was a year of limbo. It was like a daycare three years ago. Brendan Shanahan's first year. Tim Laiwiki was on his way out. He was lame duck. Dave Nonas, I don't know. He was around.

I don't quite, you know, he was spending more time away. Did you know he's Darren Drager's cousin? Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Darren Drager only mentioned it every second. And we can call him Gus. You call Darren Drager Gus.

No, you know what? I love Darren Drager. Great time. But yeah, he only mentioned, we kid. Youger only mentioned it every second. And we can call him Gus. You call Darren Drager Gus. No, you know what? I love Darren Drager. Great time. But yeah, he only mentioned it. We kid. He would mention it to my cousin. He mentioned every second word. Just like Merrick in The Burying of Harold Ballard.

Every conversation. Yeah, that's right. Always good stories. But the hiring of Mike Babcock and then Lou Lamorello is a really, really, I think, underrated hiring. I think people kind of go, oh, Lou's rules. No, very underrated hiring. He needed somebody that had that kind of experience. So anyway, point being, yeah, and they did it right.

And those three guys, Shanahan, Babcock, and Lamorello, in a town that very few would say. Like, they said to Toronto fans, we're going to suck this year, but don't worry down the road, it's going to be good. So it'd be like a top restaurant saying, you've already prepaid 41 meals and you've paid a lot for them. They're going to suck. But next year, you're going to come back and for a number of years, the meals will be good.

And the fans willingly said, we will go for our bread and water and pay $300. And true to form, it happened. It did. So far, as we designed it on the board, it seems to be unfolding. Quick question because it's so early days and inside. A guy named Dave wants me to ask you, what did you think of Carson Klink? He was the football coach at your high school. Who's this Carson Klink?

Man, I run into him because he curls. And I did a book called, actually a great book called Hockey, Heartaches, and Hell. I wrote with Jim O'Leary. Jim O'Leary is a great writer. Wrote it back in 1990. And the only problem was it was too recent at that point. It's a better book in years. Years later, people go, that's a really good book about my time with the Leafs.

So I mentioned Carson Klink in it. And I spelled his last name wrong. He was our phys ed coach. or excuse me, he taught phys ed at George Vanier Secondary School, but he's one of these great guys that went above in coaching a basketball team. And like I said that you can look at me, and I am not your prototypical basketball player, but for whatever reason in grade 12, I said, I'm going to go out for the team. And Klink said after, like his big thing was football.

He coached my brother in football and that. And we didn't have a football team that year in senior high school. So I went out for the basketball team. 30 people showed up. He said, if you show up for practice at 7 a.m. in the morning, you'll be on the team. So by the second week, there were 11 left. And I was the 11th guy. Okay.

And so anyway, just saying, Klink, the bottom line was he was a coach and a person that made a lot of difference for me in George Vanier's secondary school. That's a great name too, Carson Klink. Well, back then too, Hogan's Heroes was a little bit known better, but he also coached at Seneca. Like he knew his stuff. Do you know your French? Do you have anything beyond grade nine French?

No. And it bought, you know, my dad just passed away in September. He was 92. So no, but I mean, great life. And our name was Stelicek. He came from Prague, as he said, as a DP in 1948. You know, you think about a displaced person and then Canadianized the name to Stelic.

Spoke seven languages. Because that's what you did if you grew up in Czechoslovakia. I know it's now the Czech Republic. And it always irritated him that we couldn't learn a second language, but it's not as easy as there where you're surrounded by four other countries. Well, here's how you make it easy. Gord, perfect segue. The way to make it easy is you send your child to Camp Tournesol French camp.

Pourquoi? Because it is the way that basically your child's French skills can skyrocket. Très beau. Skyrocket. How do you say that in French? Do you know? Rocket the sky. I bet you the camp would teach you.

So it doesn't matter. Your kid could be francophone or in French immersion. I got a couple of kids in French immersion. Or no French experience, just that mandatory French class by the French teacher who hates teaching French. That's what I remember. That's what I remember. But you can go to a day camp or an overnight experience with Camp Ternasol. So here's your call to action.

If you have a child between the ages of 4 and 14, go to campt.ca and check out the French camps they have available. And when you sign up for a French camp, use the promo code Mike, M-I-K-E, and you get $20 off your order. Camp Ternasol. Did you ever see Nana Muscuri in concert? That's a great name, isn't it? No, I did not see her in concert. No. But if you're going to learn a language, you do have to get immersed in it.

So I'm saying, yeah. Yes. I would think of considering my kids to it. Yes. Nana Muscuri, by the way, somebody made a joke. She must be 100. I looked it up. She's 83 to it, yes. Nana Muscuri, by the way, somebody made a joke. She must be 100. I looked it up. She's 83 years young, and she is still touring, Nana Muscuri.

So it's not too late. You can catch Nana Muscuri. Well, I just think it was a great name. I think that's sort of one of those, like it was the, there was a commercial that, first of all, was hypocritical because it said famous actress, which if you had to put up famous actress, you're not. Rula Lenska? I don't know.

I don't even know what she advertised for, but it's you're not. Rula Lenska? I don't even know what she advertised for but it's just like famous actress Rula Lenska but it's the name that sticks with you. Nana Muscuri and those glasses. Yes. Those great glasses. I talked about the younger crowd. We got to introduce them to Harold Ballard later. We got to introduce them to Nana Muscuri because I don't know if people

have talked about Nana Muscuri much since the early 80s. You don't quite hear a lot of Nana Muscuri talking. No, no. Do you enjoy an alcoholic beverage, a beer now and then? Yeah, I do. Yes, I do. Great Lakes Brewery wants you to take home that six-pack. That's the only reason I'm here.

I thought, well, that's a good reason. Well, plus CU, but that's secondary. I don't blame you, man. That's tasty beer. I just hosted a playoff pool draft. You'll come next year, by the way. But the crowd had Great Lakes beer, and I think they came to the draft

for the beer, too. So take that home. Enjoy it. Courtesy of Great Lakes. By the way, Jeff Merrick, who buried Harold Ballard at Park Lawn Cemetery, and he helped me find Harold Ballard's grave, by the way. He's a good guy. He also worked a little while. He worked at Great Lakes Brewery. Oh, really?

He was buds with, I guess, at Humberside Collegiate. There was some, I think Mike Lackey, who's their chief brewer officer. I don't know what the titles are. But he's at Great Lakes still. So there's a Jeff Merrick connection at Great Lakes. Enjoy the six-pack, but you've got to pour that beer into a pint glass.

So you're also getting, I feel like Monty Hall here or something. God rest his soul, yes. He lived to be about 100, I think. Yeah, got him on once when the Winnipeg Jets went back from Atlanta because that was his home, yeah. Well, let's make a deal. You take home that pint glass

and you deliver the real talk. Brian Gerstein, he is a sales representative of PSR Brokerage. He's got a question for you, Gord. So listen up and let's hear from Brian. Property in the 6.com. Hi, Gord. Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mic'd.

Hope you enjoy my pint glass. Heard an interesting stat today. What city in North America has more cranes in the air than anybody else? You guessed it, Toronto with 86. Number two is Seattle with 56 and New York City and Los Angeles after that with only 25 each. There are also 160 new construction projects scheduled in the GTA and you can contact me at 416-873-0292 as I can get you access into them. Gord, how is it possible that no Canadian team has won the Cup since the 93-94 Habs?

We're talking 25 years now. If the Jets or Leafs don't do it, what is your theory? This is nuts with seven Canadian teams in the hunt each year. Well, you know, first of all... He got the year wrong. It's the 92-93 Habs.

Yeah, well, they went to 93, yeah. So 92-93. 93-94 was... Just ask Nick Kiprios. Yeah, for the ring. That's when the Leafs were supposed to play the Montreal Canadians. The Wayne Gretzky high stick on Doug Gilmore. You know, first of all, see, that's a question.

And, you know, Mike, you throw this because there's so many Montreal fans, more so two years ago when the Leafs really struggled. So you say, okay, everybody knows, ad nauseum, the Leafs are the longest route of the original six teams, going back to 1967 to win a cup. Who of the other five is the second longest route? I'm going to go with, it's definitely not Chicago, not Detroit.

I'm going to say Rangers. No, Montreal. Oh my God, of course. That's it. But I know what I mean. It's got like, because it's New York, Rangers won the next year,

Boston. So what I mean is, Montreal fans aren't used to that, like being the butt of a trivia joke that Leafs usually are. You know, since then, what have you had?

You've had the Ottawa Senators, the Calgary Flames, the Edmonton Oilers, like, you know, everybody in the final at different times. Vancouver, yeah. Vancouver connects twice in the final. And no such luck.

And each one was a little bit different. Like, I think up to 2000, to the lockout in 2004, there was some validity that the, you know, the way, whether you're for the cap or not for the cap, that Canadian teams were getting killed. It was hurting Canadian teams, and there's no question there was a real economic disadvantage. There's no question. So

this has certainly leveled the playing field, I think, in a big way. And, you know, to me, Ottawa should have won one. They're one of those best teams that never did. It comes down to goaltending. And guess what with Vancouver? What does it come down to?

Goaltending. And Roberto Luongo was a hell of a goaltender, but Tim Thomas had his best time ever. It went seven games. You know before they didn't make it to the finals in the early 2000s, but until the Todd Bertuzzi hit on Steve Moore, they had the best team in the NHL. But again, goaltending.

Like Brian Burke had to have that memorable press conference to just basically say, Detroit's kicking the crap out of us, you know, and so it doesn't, he was having fun with those Russian pronunciations, doesn't mean hook me, hold me. He was covering

because their goaltenders sucked. So, you know, that's just been it, but hopefully Toronto, Winnipeg, for starters, and yeah, I do find now that we all have our favorite team in Canada, but where before we were bitter rivals of another Canadian-based team, we seem to all pull for the other Canadian-based teams once our team's out. Present company accepted.

I haven't bought in on that yet. I'm still Leafs first and foremost. And then I find myself rooting for Phil Kessel and Sidney Crosby over there in Pittsburgh. Okay, root away. I can't get behind these Jets. I'm sorry. And I say that with appreciation to Penguins, but root away. Right.

I hear you. I'll be very brief because I'm being very sincere when I tell everybody that I love using the Paytm app. So it's a free app. You pay nothing. You pay nothing to use it, nothing to download it. You go to paytm.ca. Get it on your, I don't care, your Apple phone. I use it on my Android phone. And you put all your, you basically manage all of your bills there. Like every bill you pay, you can pay through Paytm and you can pay in three ways. You can take the money out of your

bank account. You can put it on your MasterCard or you can use Paytm Cash. I always put it on my MasterCard and use my Paytm Cash. You get $10 in Paytm Cash that you can use towards a bill just by using the promo code Toronto Mike. So go to Paytm.ca, download the app, make a bill payment with the promo code Toronto Mike, one word. You get $10. You can buy me a beer or a coffee and you can thank me later and if you have any questions shoot me an email I'll help you out but it's awesome you should use it

Gord that's how you should be paying your bills I'm not big on apps I love this you know but that sounds the way I should be paying my bills I just kind of let them pile up

I got to do that I got to deal with it right away you're right yeah and it even sends you reminders I get a reminder your property taxes

well my wife Lisa does that. I sound like Don Cherry. She's your app. I sound like Don Cherry used to talk about Rose. Yeah, just that she basically would pin an envelope with money and travel money for him. Oh, that's funny. We're not that useless. It's more a tribute to somebody else.

Well, you're a lucky guy. But if she wants the free money, she should download the app. She will. That's for sure. That's for sure. Where do I begin with you, Gord Stelic? I'm going to start with a nice note I got from a guy named Andrew Ward, who's a big fan of yours.

He's the one. And he says, you got your parking... He did some homework, this guy. He wants my gig, I think. You got your parking spot at Maple Leaf Gardens when you were 22, he says. It was beside King Clancy and Punch Imlac. But when the Garden Brothers Circus came to town, something else occupied it. Tell me about, first of all,

tell me about what it's like having a Maple Leaf Gardens parking spot when you're 22. And then what's this affinity that Harold had for the circus? It was, so first of all, I started with the Leafs full-time. I started in 1975.

I was still in high school part-time. Then I started working in the office in 1977 when Howie Starkman, people forget, he worked for the Leafs. And then he left mid-season to become the first ever and, you know, like a legend as the PR guy for the Toronto Blue Jays. So a number of things, I was going to University of Toronto, yada, yada, yada. So then I get my full-time job and I'm pulling down 12 grand, which isn't a lot of money, but actually it seems. But houses were like 20,000. I know, but it seems like the business now.

So, but I didn't have parking, which is tough to get anyway. And then after two years, George Punch Imlach, who was really good to me, he, I mean,

his thing with the Leafs wasn't good as second go around. He was really good to me. So when he got fired, you know, that was kind of a life lesson. I'm sitting there, but then I got his parking spot. So I was sorry to see him go, but then I got my parking spot reserved

for G. Stelic, you know? Nice. And I can remember once, after a game, I was scraping snow, like I'd gone out for a, I'd gone to the hot stove lounge for a drink or whatever, responsibly, and then it was snowing, and I'm scraping the the car and some guys who had been drinking a little bit more come out and you see the guy going, hey, look at this, King Clancy, Johnny

Bauer, Jerry McNamara, Dick Duff or whatever. Gee, Stelic. Who the bleep is Gee Stelic? And I'm like two yards away with a friend scraping the car so so that was so so the so anyway but it was neat i had my spot and i gotta tell you i would drive i took the dawn valley parkway uh i would come in i'd take that you know the bluer bay view cut in come up church street man i just i loved it i'm driving and i and i turn and i park at maple leaf gardens i park at maple leaf gardens with my name there. Like I park there.

And then they got a key to it. There's no pass. You know, you go into Maple Leaf Gardens, you know, you go up to the Reds and there's your office and that. So they, you know, there'd be a lot of events going on at different times. And we would practice up at what's now called

Herb Carnegie Arena, which was then North York Centennial. But there'd be big ones like the ice show would come into town, but the circus comes to town. And first all it would it would stink it would stink and then as an like a guy in my 20s now i'd look and go man that's cheesy like when you're a kid you thought it was great then you're watching and there's a guy that actually is given the given a pole it seems to the elephants and lions always to get them going you know what i mean stuff you

didn't see as kids but for one time i don't't know why my parking spot got decreed as the elephant's washroom. So I arrived on the Monday to a festering pile that just added and added and added. So I mean, I think they picked one random each year. I don't know. But I was in. So I wasn't general manager yet, so you couldn't say it was the editorial comment on my job. But it was, I don't think a lot of people go to work and there is literally a mound of elephant dung for a week. For a week.

I couldn't park there. And growing. And that was the Garden Brothers Circus, right? That's what it was. I think it was, yeah. And so was there a special... Did Harold have like an affinity for the circus or was it just that... Do-re-mi.

Money. The only game in town. The only game in town. I mean, everything went through Maple Leaf Gardens. You think about all the, you know, all the other venues that have opened since then. I mean, the C&E Grandstand would open, but then, Mike, there was nothing else. You had to come there. Right, right, right.

Supply and demand. Now, what was King Clancy like? Oh, man. St. Paddy's Day, and I go, geez. Oh, boy. I just, like, he, full throttle, you know, on St. Paddy's Day. I go, geez, oh boy. I just like he full throttle, you know, on St. Paddy's Day. So he passed away in 1986 and he was this treasure. I got to see at the end.

So I, you know, you know, people have differing, generally positive, but when he was a coach or a player or whatever, but so he, he was like Harold's, he was the vice president. He would kid about it. He'd go, well, the vice president says, you know. But he was this wonderful goodwill ambassador type guy and just like a legend and just always a good story, a smile, like a real attitude about attacking life. Like both Harold and him were widowers. And I think that's what helped join them together, that they both lost their wives considerably a number of years before they passed away. both lost their wives considerably a number of years before they passed away. But, you know, so I would think I'd be sitting at my little desk there, and he would come in the next morning after a game, and he'd be talking about the game.

And he'd go, to me. And then he'd go, okay, well, and so we would be standing up in the office. I'd go, you stand there, and then you get, like, the secretary. I know they're called administrative assistants now. But you stand there, and, you know, so we're standing there, and then he's going over a play, you know, whatever it may be, and, you know know and and and uh and then you know so be neat about the game and and then he'd always talk about a guy to go you know who was the best skater and you go who to go spuds cleghorn if you're not named bobby or something but it was a wonderful way and there

was actually mike some dents in some cupboards there and i remember it didn't make sense like the furniture was crap. It was cheap in the office. And I said to the secretary, I said, what's that from? She goes, oh, a couple of years ago, Mr. Clancy and Tiger Williams were practicing shooting pucks at it. So I don't think that happens in a front office anymore. Put that in the Hall of Fame.

Come on, that belongs in the Hall of Fame. So when he passed away, it was kind of a wow feeling. And because I wasn't I remember talking to Dr. Urowitz about he'd had his gallbladder out or something like that and then he goes

yeah no it's not good because he had complicated by diabetes and that so he just put a wonderful personality on the front office was a real

was a real neat treasure like I'm of an age that I remember as a kid being in the grays at Maple Leaf Gardens and there was the bunker of course at Maple Leaf Gardens where there was the bunker, of course, at Maple Leaf Gardens

where it was always Harold Ballard and King Clancy sitting there. And there was this legend, like, oh, that's where King Clancy and Harold Ballard sit. And it just seemed, I don't know how to describe it, but as a kid,

it seemed surreal, larger than life. You said the word legend, but they really seemed like these legends that sort of loomed over the gardens. And the two of them, he talked Harold into getting the Hamilton Ticats. And so they would go, if the Ticats played the

Argos, they would make a point of grabbing the most crowded streetcar, and that's how they went to the game. With their Ticat jackets on, they would go into streetcars and the public transit laden with Toronto Argonaut fans who would just go, wow, that's cool. And they would go and just be loud and vocal. That's amazing.

Here's a great question from Shane Smith, and I like this because it harkens back to who would just go, wow, that's cool. You get an instigator for that. And they would go and just be loud and vocal. That's amazing. That's amazing. Here's a great question from Shane Smith, and I like this because it harkens back to one of the first, speaking of larger than life, when I was growing up, there was no better Leaf. The great Leaf was Rick Vive. Like we said, 50 goals.

He did it like three times. No Leaf's done 50 goals. And he was this handsome figure, and he was just number 22, Rick Vive. So I have a question from Shane Smith. He wants to know, who was the bigger celebrity in Toronto, Rick Vibe in 1984 or Austin Matthews in 2018? That's a question.

Okay, with all fairness to Rick Vibe, it was Austin Matthews, and it's because of what we're doing now and everything else, the proliferation of media. That's the big thing, okay? But you're sharing it with, you got TFC winning in Mexico. You got the Raps looking to make a run at the finals. Oh yeah.

There's so much going on that we don't have. Yeah. But I mean, if Auston Matthews was just arriving now, okay, if this was 2016, that would be different right now. Right.

So, and the Leafs are winning and all that. So, but I want to give my just due to Rick Vibe because back then, absolutely, absolutely. He was,

he was huge. But again, when you're a losing team, you don't get the, you know, the periphery fans as much diehard. So I'm big, very big on Rick Vibe, very big on Rick Vibe. But you can't compare right now. And, you know, one of the things when you're losing in the 80s, and it's funny, I think there's a switchboard there that people actually answered calls.

So if somebody called you, and people expect a lot, like the nerve of people always just think, I'm going to call and get autographs or something like that, you know? And then they get pissed off if you, you know, whatever. And so sometimes the answer would be, well, no wonder you guys lose. The Jays do it right, right? So you went through that for a few years. That would be the great hang-up line from somebody else that way. Oh, that's funny.

And the Jays, yeah, they would win their first AL East in 85, the drive of 85. Ken Daniels was just here. And as a very young reporter guy, like a very young Ken Daniels, phoned Harold Ballard, and Harold answered the phone. And Harold said, come on, what are you doing now? And Ken got an invitation to visit Harold, uh, uh, Harold at the, his gardens apartment,

I guess. Did he have an apartment in there? Oh, he lived there. He lived there. So, yeah. So I,

like, I mean, first of all, part of that, like I recognize that he literally lived, his office was an apartment and I recognize that he was there all the time. And, uh,

he was an early bird guy. So when I got my job, I would make a point of being there early with my cup of coffee and muffin and Toronto Sun and just be reading, you know, whatever, going over stuff. And then when his line lit up, because there was a switchboard that would put in calls back and forth to him, I would grab the line and whoever it was, because someone's supposed to screen it, but I would do it because the secretaries weren't in yet. Right.

And then I just buzz back and go on the intercom. Hey, Mr. Ballard. It goes, oh, hey, Gordy. And then after the call, quite often, he would come out in his robe and just sit down and shoot the breeze with you. So just sit in your little office there. And that's sort of where I made,

I wasn't, say, sucking up to the boss, but that's really where I made inroads. That was where the real human side was about things and a very soft, personable side. So same thing. You could phone, and if it was after hours, switchboard just put it through there's no one to screen it and quite often and bill bird a guy with global was legendary that he would hit and miss with harold that you know you so if you got him you probably got your story of the day and if you didn't you didn't oh that's the good

old days man man different days but yeah well everything's good old because you're younger back then like i agree but it's yeah just it's here younger back then. Like I agree, but it's, yeah, just, it's, well, here's what's different. Shanahan, I know Shanahan's got a different title or whatnot, but so I, he's a local guy. He's a Mimico guy

who went to my high school. So I wanted to have him on this podcast, not to talk, leave stuff. I'm not going to drill him on the Shana plan or whatever. I actually wanted to talk about going to Michael Power

and Mimico area. Like I wanted to talk about other things. I got through the couple of layers of PR and then at some point they said, he's only doing stuff with Rogers and Bell Media is basically the answer I got. But I feel like I might have had a chance at Herald if I could have been podcasting in the...

Oh, you would have had Herald in a heartbeat. You absolutely would have had Herald. Where's the Brendan Shanahan with the post-serial ads and the guy with the water balloons in the NHL thing and the guy that was pretending he was riding the bike. And the Ford Tempo. I just watched a Ford Tempo ad and it was the famous Torontonians were trying out the new Ford Tempo or something.

And he didn't speak in the ad, but you see Harold checking out the Ford as if Harold was going to buy a Ford Tempo. Like this was an ad that aired in like 1984. Oh, I know that because I set it up. Someone called and it was and him and King was in one too and they got a donation for charity. That's why they did it. But you're right. I don't get nowadays that the human

side, there's a corporate thing and just a lot of guys that I go with go, they didn't talk like that. And why does everyone frown all the time when they're on TV? Like you're winning. But anyway, it just seems to be the corporate side that that's the side a lot of people choose to

play. Okay, now, before I get you to this wonderful title of general manager, so call it what you want, kissing ass or whatever. You call it what you want, but whatever you were doing with Harold works for you, because we're going to get to that. But I think that, yeah, I have memories of Harold Ballard as a living human being, okay? Because he dies in 1990 and I'm a teenager.

But I want to play just a clip. This is from Hockey Night in Canada, and it's just a clip of Harold Ballard talking to John Wells. I think this is like 84 or something. But let's just give it a couple minutes, hear a bit of Harold and his personality coming through here, and then we'll talk about Harold and USGM of the Leafs. Harold Ballard is never at a loss for words.

Tonight we'll get some firsthand information on what's good and bad about his Toronto Maple Leafs in the past couple of weeks what do you see that's encouraging out there tonight well one thing I'd like to mention is the fact that we must be worse than the Whalers because they beat you 11-0 out here so it doesn't say much for us does it

Harold there's not too much encouraging about the way your hockey club is playing tonight it's very erratic we can go in and play against different teams. The last time we played in Toronto, what was it, 9-3, wasn't it? That was 8-3 that night. 8-3, well.

I remember that well here. Very well. And anything's liable to happen. We go into Boston and beat them in Boston, beat them badly in Toronto. So who the hell knows what's going to happen in a hockey game? A couple of weeks later, though, after those big wins over teams like Boston and Philadelphia,

you lose to Detroit. That's the team you've got to battle with to grab that player's back. They're getting better all the time. We're not improving the way I thought we would, but however, the season's not over and we have a little help coming which we'll show you in about a week. Can you let us

in on that now? Do you know what that was? Was that Peter Inacek's brother? I remember that being trumpeted at the time. Mike Nicklock, most astronomy folks. He's as far as I'm concerned, as far as the management's concerned, and I signed the checks. He likes that line, eh?

For all of this, he has been a remarkable gentleman with all of the pressure that has been generated. He's always been a gentleman. He played for me as a junior and he's a classy guy. He's not a hollerer, as you want to call him, or he's not bombastic. The fellas have a lot of respect for him, and that means a lot in the hockey club. He has a great helper in Danny Maloney. Danny Maloney's a little tougher than he is,

but I think we'll get it straightened around before the season's over. I hope we do. Harold, the media in Toronto, are they too tough on your hockey club these days? Oh, no, they're a bunch of jerks. Who worries about what they're doing? That's a great point. Especially that Globe and Mail bunch. They should be writing kids' books

He was the Donald Trump of hockey ownership. They're still after the guys from the Globe. Why not? I mean, you say when you talk about halfwits, you have to talk about them. Encouraging signs we talked about earlier. Do you feel that this Maple Leaf hockey Club can make the playoffs at this point? Well, you know, church is not over until the choir quits singing,

and we haven't quit singing. So I give ourselves a great chance, and if we can pep things up a bit and get them going, I would say we'll be in the playoffs. And anything can happen in the playoffs. Are you taking credit for Alan Bester? That was your idea to bring him up? Oh, no, listen, nobody takes credit for anything.

If you have a wheel and it's got one spoke on the line, it wobbles. By the way, the Bester-Reggett tandem was fantastic. It's the lowliest person on the totem pole. I know that a lot of people don't know how much charity work you really do in Toronto with Maple Leaf Gardens and how charitable you are.

And I know you've got a big event coming up as far as Maple Leaf Gardens. You're talking about March 18th? March 18th is your date, right? That's going to be a Stravaganza, as they call it. We have the Flying Fathers coming in to play the Toronto Maple Leaf Old Timers. And as you know, you don't need any introduction or information about the Flying Fathers, led by Father Les Costello, who was a meeple leaf at one time. Absolutely.

And they are in Europe at the present moment, but they are going to be back for the 18th. And they're playing the old-timers. Gordon Sinkler is going to face off Bobby Orr and Red Story. And the great Scotty Morrison are going to referee. We have Bauer and Gold and Havlitz and McKinney, Nevin, and a lot of the old times. And the money to a very good cause. The Charlie Conacher throat cancer research. I might say that we've obligated ourselves for a million dollars,

and we're going to get a million dollars this year by hook or crook. We've got to go quickly, but happy birthday to your friend. Mike Clancy. This is a big day for him, and I'm going to tell you something. They're having a birthday party at home for him tonight, so I imagine it'll be a big, big deal. Thanks to you, Harold. Happy birthday there in Toronto. Coming up next, highlights from the Forest View Bridge.

I wanted to play that clip because I felt it sort of like, you know, you hear about this legend of Harold Ballard now. And you're right. I went to visit his grave site and I tweeted a picture of his because it was tough to find, by the way, because it's on the ground and Jeff Merrick helped me find it. But people were like, did you spit on the grave? And I got all these comments.

Yeah, it's you can't get any marks by trying to dig up anything positive about the Harold Ballard era that way. Now, first of all, you listen to the interview. I know it's like I see, I got a memory that's stupid. It's great.

That's why you're here. The irrelevant details. So that's the 83-84 season. And Mike Nikolik would get fired at the end of the year. He's the head coach. Danny Maloney's the assistant. But I love Harold's answers always about, you know, like, and so Noamirislav Inicuk came two weeks, two years later.

Okay, okay. So Harold's old line was bull what baffles brains, right? So I don't know what he was talking about was coming in a week or so. There was like, what could be coming in a week or so? So there was nothing coming. And that year, we, the Leafs, would finish out of the playoffs that year as usual. But you heard he certainly didn't speak in soundbites. He gives you an answer about everything.

He loved being at war with the media, even though he had. And part of it was the Globe and Mail, like Milt Dunnell was one of his favorites with the Toronto Star and George Gross with the Toronto Sun. That's the way it worked, right? And they fought each other tooth and nail for scoops. Harold would give those papers scoops. The Globe would be pissed off. So it just would

rev it up a little bit and kind of go on that way. And you know what? I got to tell you, that game against the Flying Fathers, because I ended up, because I was the only guy in the office. I was doing everything. And it was neat. And so, okay, I can't remember how I went about it. There was an old Leaf alum, because the alumni wasn't treated very well by Harold. And so there was an older group to play against the Flying Fathers. And then I wanted to get the younger group. So Eddie Shaq, I connect with Eddie Shaq. And he starts giving me all his conditions. First of all, we're not going to, no, we don't want to play with those older guys.

And then we don't want that crap the Flying Fathers do, pies and all that stuff. And these guys, they're going to sort of almost condition. I felt it was a hostage thing. And then he goes, Carl Brewer's got to play, which Harold had said Carl Brewer can't play. So then I end up doing an end around. I get guys like Jim McKinney. I get Dan Maloney and Johnny Bauer work for us, so they're going to play. And so eventually we get a team, because we really hadn't been a –

and it ends up being a sold-out out event because Harold, every penny went. He wouldn't, you know, no pennies and expenses. But I remember it was exhausting getting that team together. Then Eddie Shaq couldn't play because he had some car accident or something. So he shows up, you know, because he wanted to be part of the party. But I had to kind of divide and conquer to get a Leaf alumni team together for that game against the Flying Fathers. to get a Leaf alumni team together for that game against the Flying Fathers. It was great hearing some of those names, but can you maybe share with us a little bit about his charity work?

Because, I mean, if you're looking for Harold Ballard positives, I like the real talk from Harold Ballard and that he didn't spin, no corporate speak. I heard, who was I hearing the other day? Shapiro was talking about something. And Shapiro, I think he might be a nice man, and I hope he does great work for the Jays. We had a good start this season. But it's like talking to like a CEO of a bank about something. And Shapiro, I think he might be a nice man and I hope he does great work with the Jays. We had a good start this season.

But it's like talking to a CEO of a bank or something. You know what I mean? It's very polished. And I can remember Brian Colangelo once when the Raptors had a bad season. He was on and he was,

I remember he was talking about things because he was very corporate and very, and let's face it, the Raptors were impressive his first couple of years. Right.

But he had a line about draft position preservation. I feel like, wait a sec, if you're picking eighth, you pick eighth unless you trade the pick. Right. But this is draft position preservation. Right. You control that. Well, that's bullshit baffles brains.

Yeah. But you've got to be a little better. Anyway. But we do hear, I do hear from people, he was very charitable. Yeah. And is this one of those examples? Was he a charitable guy? Well, you know, my Aunt Peggy was rehabbing, and she was at Bridgepoint, which is a rehab hospital.

And the weather got nice, took her outside the Harold E. Ballard Foundation garden there. And you check it out. Well, it's at St. Joe's Health Center where my most recent two children were born. There's a Harold E. Ballard wing or something going on there. So when he died, that's what happened. That's when I talk about the next ownership group. We're screwing the charities. And that's what ultimately got Steve Stavro was that because, and it's a weird quirk,

that the two big shareholders were NHL executives Harry Arnest and Jimmy DeVolano. So they reviewed because basically as executor of the will Stavro and Don Crump the two of the executors took it in-house and said okay we're gonna we're gonna put a value we made up a value so we're gonna buy it and make it private and that and then upon further review he had to come

up with 23 million large right away to pay the charities and that brought up brought a return to 20 years earlier when Harold was overextended with the World Hockey Association to 20 years earlier when Harold was overextended with the World Hockey Association competing and Stavronow was overextended and you trade Dave Anderchuk and Todd Gill and all those guys

and eventually you lose control of the team. But the charities got $23 million. Harold was like that. My only line I always said was, everyone always says, everyone doesn't know what he does, but they do. It's mentioned all the time.

That's all. Because he liked being front and center about everything, but he did walk the walk. Good to hear that. Do you have any update on the status or standing of Yolanda Ballard? Do you know how she's doing? Gotta tell you something.

She earned her money. He knew what she was. He knew, but it would take someone unique to put up with them in the waning years. So I dealt a lot with her. She took care of them at the end. So she is, as far as I know, still alive. I do believe that initially, if story is correct, that she's supposed to get a pair of season leaf tickets. But they decided that, yes, but she'd have to go each game to get her two tickets and they would move her around.

So anyway, apparently she's alive. I don't know if she's alive and well. It certainly was never dull. I know she's alive. I don't know if she's well, but I believe she's in Florida. Okay. Well, she would figure out something good. She would figure out something good.

Okay, now, because we mentioned Johnny Bauer and he just passed, I just want to play a little, ask you, first of all, did you, where are you, Johnny? There you are. Did you own this.45 as a young man? Yeah, absolutely. Don't you remember the SO, you're too young, but the SO tips as well, you'd put them on like Tim Horton blocking shots and all that.

I'm a bit young. Yeah, but they had those too that are sponsored by SO, but Honky the Christmas Goose. What was it like? I mean, by all accounts, this was a true gentleman. Please tell me that is true. Absolutely. Oh, absolutely.

I don't tweet a ton, but after he passed away, I just sort of said, I never imagined a world without Johnny Bauer. Like I grew up, Johnny Bauer was my goalie. And then I got to work with him. That's absurd. You get to work with Johnny Bauer. And then Johnny Bauer was the, the ambassador for like, he was the treasure for the Toronto Maple Leafs, his waning years. And now he's gone. And you know, that song you, I know you had Ken Daniels on. Leafs is waning years and now he's gone. And you know that song, I know you had Ken Daniels on and when Ken's son died I said, I don't know what to say

but then I said, boy I remember the fan launched in 1993, right? 1992 or 93? Around then, the World Series years. Yeah, so first a soft launch and then, okay so the first Christmas Eve show, Ken and I, for some reason, did the afternoon, like from 2 to 6. Just they, then they were going to, so we got Johnny Bauer on the phone to sing this, and his wife Nancy played it on the piano in the background, like do it live, right? That's great. And I said that to Ken, I said, I always remember that, you know, show.

And Ken goes, oh boy, you made me smile you know and uh i wish i could go back to that time but anyway johnny bauer was my desk was next to him and you know he was johnny bauer he really shouldn't have been a scout he should have just been like jean bellevaux the guy yeah the ambassador or whatever but that's see that's one thing with harold harold had to be the face i gotta say that so that's why nobody else would be the face as long as Harold Ballard owned it. But what I say, it's Harold's defense. It's more Jimmy Gregory because Jimmy Gregory, George Armstrong, and Johnny Bauer both had jobs right away after their career, even though it's not a bum rap. It's an accurate rap that maybe the alumni weren't treated as well as they were in other organizations. Those two guys walked into off-ice jobs.

Well, let's set this up by saying in April 1988, you are named the general manager of my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs. And you were the youngest GM in NHL history because you were only 30 years old. Yeah. So how did you become GM of the Leafs? So it's, and I won't make it a too long a story but it's an interesting process that like I said my break in getting in in 1975 was my neighbor Stan Abodiak was the public relations director and my good friend Ken McMurtry their

family was best friends Ken was already working at the game so I got to go in as a gopher just you know working game nights and then Howie Starkman leaves in 1977 and i get to come now in the front office uh part-time while i go to university of toronto to do the press notes and statistics i could type 70 words a minute it sounds strange not a lot of males could type back then that kind of speed and it still was a very sexist you know uh setup back. So that was my point of difference. And I say to young people today, have a point of difference. Like, kill on the internet. Kill on those things.

So anyway, I'm doing that. So I get to know, I still call him Mr. Ballard. Because he lives there. I'm there odd hours. So he likes me. Then he offers me a full-time job. I hadn't even thought about it. So I'm doing everything.

But then when he gets me a job, he fires a secretary because it's always one employee and one out. So I am, right off the bat, assistant general manager basically, but also answering the phones during lunch hour. So I got the one extreme to the other. So it's a phenomenal learning lesson. It's not exactly should be a great organization that way.

I'm doing the travel. I'm doing the PR. I'm doing everything. And then it gets into the 80s then, and I'm interested in growing. And Harold, or Mr. Bauer, has taken a shine to me. So in 87, I'm named general manager of the New Market Saints, the AHL team. And I'm thrilled. I'm going, what a great thing for me for whatever, three, four, five years,

like Kyle Dubas or anybody wants to do. And then, so I'm spending most of my time up there, but then that year, more crisis after crisis, John Brophy doesn't like Jerry McNamara. Jerry McNamara doesn't like John Brophy. John Brophy has Harold Ballard's ear, which is the unfortunate thing when an owner's involved and, you know, Carolina might be going through that now, who knows what. So he fires Jerry McNamara in February. And actually it's weird. He'd been away at the Cayman Islands Ballard. We're in Hartford of all places. So I report to him on the phone.

I get a message. I'm supposed to call. So I called Ballard just chatting about stuff. And, you know, he goes, well, I don't know. May have to do something. And I kind of go, well, we're home tonight after the game and whatever. You have to, you know, think about things or whatever. And then 10 minutes later, it's a message.

Jerry's got to call Ballard. He fires him over the payphone wow so now we have this in and he's got nothing set up about what to do so we sort of have this interim triumvirate myself dick duff and john brophy and i was kind of the third guy but i was the most capable guy because i knew everything that's not a knock against those guys but they didn't you know as far as all the files and everything went and and i was kind of ticked because I was happy doing what I was doing, and now I'm just trying to keep this. And it really was an unfortunate three months because, anyway,

we all got along internally, but it wasn't a way to run a club. So here we go. We get in the playoffs, and of all things, we take it six games against the Detroit Red Wings. And God love Eddie Olchuk for a hat trick in Detroit that brings it back to Toronto. So game number six, we just get killed. We just get killed.

And that's why when there was one sweater thrown on the ice a couple of years ago at Air Canada Center, I go, no, they were throwing everything on the ice that night. Sweaters, pucks, everything. And I don't know, we lost, I don't know, whatever we lost. It was ridiculous. So now the next morning, Brofe is thinking, okay, this is his chance to flex his muscle. And so Ballard comes up, and it was a so now the next morning brof is thinking okay this is his chance to flex his

muscle and so ballard comes up and it was a weird thing he comes up from being down the dressing room and this season's just ending with acrimony inside and outside and so he sits in my desk and goes well we got to make a lot of changes i guess i go yeah we well we have to do some anyway and so i knew he'd been talking to brof and he goes, I guess we got to get rid of, we got to get rid of Miroslav Freacher, which, yeah, that's fine. That was understood. Brofe and him loathe each other. Then he kind of goes, yeah, we got to get Bill Waters off the radio, which I go, no,

no, that's not what we're fighting right now. Because Brofe was annoyed. Brofe actually liked Bill, but, you know, but anyway, Bill had the conflict thing where he was an agent. No, I'm okay. I'm thinking we're missing. And then he goes, and yeah, Brofe, you yeah, like Harold loved Borya Somming. But he said, and Brof wants Borya Somming gone.

And actually, that was when I kind of go, no, no. And so Ballard kind of said, so what? You don't agree with some of the things? And I said, do you want me to tell you what I want? I think you want me to hear from me? Or do you want to hear what to hear what I really think? Oh, no, no. I want to hear what you really think. So in the good old fashioned days, like I said, okay, I'll put it all down on paper. So it was a typewriter and it took me a day and a half. I did like an 18 page memo about everything. Everything. So

the next few days he keeps walking, you know, and he's got my thing and he'd go, is this what you think about the scouting? I'm, yeah, anyone. So the weekends and Sunday morning, a Milt Dunnell column, who's like this revered 80-year-old friend of Ballard columnist, like the top columnist in Toronto. It says I'm going to be the general manager. Wow. That's how I find out. So I don't officially find out for four more days,

even though I kind of know at that point. And all of a sudden you're the guy. And I, and like I said, in a perfect world, I was saying, geez, I'd love to get up.

Like if I could be a, a assistant to a Bill Torrey or a Cliff Fletcher, ironic Cliff comes a few years later. So, you know, that would be a perfect thing. and anyway, so,

um, I, I use that as a bit of my shtick that, you know, I, I say, I talk about that, that, you know, that would be a perfect thing. And anyway, so I use that as a bit of my shtick that, you know, I talk about that, that, you know, everyone makes a big deal. It was when Brian Burke came to town and there was a search and all that stuff. And, you know, when I was named general manager, people would make the joke that Harold Ballard just took one look around the front office and hired the first person that he saw.

And, you know, that was really hurtful and all that. It'd be more hurtful if it wasn't absolutely true, you know? So anyway, it wasn't quite, so that's it. All of a sudden, it's like getting married without getting married. All of a sudden, you're the office boy in people's perception to GM of the Leafs.

That should be a movie. Like, if you consider you licensing this, this is a movie. Yeah, no, no, it's a neat, yeah. And so finally on the Thursday, we had a meeting about it in the boardroom, and Ballard confirmed I'm the GM. And then you come outside, and there's a waiting media throng. And it was a throng back then that I knew them all very, very well.

But I'm the guy that walked around the throng. And then that day, I'm the center of the throng. So it was all of a sudden my... Yeah. Yeah. So anyway So it was all of a sudden my, yeah. So anyway, it was surreal. Well, that document you typed out over a day and a half, you didn't make a photocopy of that, did you?

I want to read that document. I think I could have it somewhere else. You know what? I would publish that to Toronto. That's a part of Toronto history. You owe it to us. Well, if I find it, I'll gladly pass it on. But it was part of my, let's say, university training. But I did essays. I did things like that as a But it was part of my, let's say, university training. But I did essays.

I did things like that as a pretty good writer. And anyway, it wasn't done. It wasn't commonplace back then. No, a quick tangent is every time somebody's like, what's the value of university? Because I went to U of T, too. I got an honors BA. But the value of university is basically learning how to succinctly put an argument together on paper.

I use it every day, that training in university. That's why you go to university. Yeah. No, no. I was going through that era where you're supposed to go to get a job, which you want to get a job ultimately, but it's to learn and do other things and grow as a person. And you're right. And my typing skill was big.

And anyway, it's just funny. But I just decided, you know what? When Harold was sitting there and I thought, if he's going to be pissed off at me and this is the end of it i just saw everybody throwing sweaters on the ice it was just embarrassing to everybody and if this is the things like getting rid of borya that's going to get us back on track then um no yeah no thank you now now that i've got you as gm of the maple leaves here i gotta ask you about a trade uh that happens on your watch uh in fact many people i open it up any. Any questions for Gord? And several people had a question here,

but I'll give credit to Wade Clymer. I think he was first. But obviously, I need to ask you about Russ Cortnall for John Cordick. How does that come to be? And what role did you really play in that deal? I don't think I made the deal. I don't really remember the deal.

It only gets brought up all the time. And I think that's part of my success as a media guy, that I'm't really remember the deal. It only gets brought up all the time. And I think that's part of my success as a media guy, that I'm still in the front lines. So I do not get defensive about it. So first of all, I will tell you Miroslav Freacher for

Darren Veach. I kid about that. That was the first trade. And as Jimmy Devolana goes, not a good that trade, did Gordie. Bugger all for both teams. Anyway, so that one. Brad Marsh on the waiver draft. Rob Ramage for a second-round pick. Louis Francesetti for a fifth-round pick.

Kenny Reggett for two first-round picks. Which Steve Mathis wanted me to tell you that you deserve more credit for getting two first-rounders for Reggett. So anyway, I'm just forming this as a complete body of work that way. Yeah, which I love. And that was it. So we start the season and I understand and I don't BS that I am inheriting John

Brophy as head coach. Harold Bowder loves John Brophy. John Brophy should not be coaching in the National Hockey League. I love John Brophy. I do. The person, I absolutely do. If everyone could have like had his passion to win,

but too many bridges had been burnt, but so be it. That's the reality. Season starts, and he can't stand Russ Corton. Okay? Russ is kind of a cocky kid. He's not tough enough? Well, not, but also a cocky kid too,

which I like about Russ. Russ is the guy, I greeted him at the draft when he was 18 years old. That's why when they had the alumni game before the Toronto-Detroit outdoor game there, Kiprios couldn't believe it. He took a picture of Russ and I

like we're best buddies. I love Russ. Just since you said Russ, when I was a very young guy, big Leaf fan, he signed autographs at Ward and Patch, which was at Jane and Annette.

It's gone now. It's a hardware store now, but it was Ward and Patch sporting goods, and he signed autographs there, and I was like, it was at Jane and Annette. It's gone now. It's a hardware store now, but it was Ward and Patch Sporting Goods, and he signed autographs there, and I was like, it was so big deal to me that young Mike,

that this Toronto Maple Leaf, he was on the Hound Line, which had a song we used to sing. Ain't nothing but the Hound Line. Yeah, and there was Russ signing autographs at Ward and Patch, but please continue.

Yeah, and part of them for extra money too, and I'm not belittling that. I'm just saying, so anyway, season starts, and part of them for extra money too. And I'm not belittling that. I'm just saying, you know what I mean? So anyway, season starts and we've got, and I'm doing a lot of work with Broph, just trying to get on sack. So we've got Eddie Olchuk, Gary Lehman,

Daniel Marois, Vinny Domfus, Russ, not a physical team. I draft Ty Domi, we draft Ty Domi in the second round to, you know, get some toughness for the future. You know, things like that. Brad Marsh, a bit of physical presence. We try to do a few little things that way, but we're not the physical team. And, of course, he precipitated the Al Secord trade, which was, you know,

and again, Al Secord wasn't physical anymore. Like, that had gone. But Brofe loved the Al Secord he thought of five years earlier. Right. So we get off to this good start, and I can remember it because I remember everything. It was a game in Chicago, and Cortinal had been a healthy scratch a couple of games. And now he's a scratch again. And I'm pissed.

And I'm just like, oh, jeez. You know, and now, you know, learning things as time goes on and, you know, things are different. I mean, this is probably obviously where my youth and inexperience came into play. So, but I basically say to Russ, look, you know, just keep quiet and I'll figure something out for you. Because, you know, I couldn't disagree with him. Danny Dow was our fourth center at that point playing ahead of Russ. So Russ was healthy scratched. And we get off to this start eight three and one and then

we have a game and and again brof's kind of strutting like a peacock and i'm going oh jeez we lose in st louis and then we lose back to back the boston bruins and i always kid to marty mcsorley later the la kings it was you know it was gretzky's first year there in la but but they kicked the crap out of us physically and now now Brofe just goes, you know what? And the one thing I will say in hindsight is I'm glad because, especially when Brofe passed, I think of him so fondly that I wasn't party to greasing the skids for him about things. So he wanted John Kordick huge.

He was there in 1986. Brofe was coaching Nova Scotia. And Cordick actually was a significant part of the Montreal Canadiens, that playoff. Now, you don't have a lot of pre-scouting and all that going on in 88. And so I talked to Serge Savard about that. He talks about Todd Gill or Russ Cortnall. Again, in hindsight, I obviously could have played it a lot differently about draft picks

or something, but there's a sense of urgency because I'm sensing we're going to get off the rails pretty quick. So the trade is made. And I do it as much to liberate Russ Cortnall. I also learned later that I was there in the office when Punch Imlach traded Lanny McDonald to Colorado. And very unpopular trade. Right.

I realized he picked Colorado for a reason. You'll never see him again. I didn't think that way. Montreal, you're going to see him all the time. Right. You're going to tune in when the Leafs lose on Saturday and this guy with the perfect smiles can be interviewed post-game.

So anyway, whatever. Kordak comes to town. I like, there's so many parts of John Kordak I really like the person. Not the screwed up person, the whole thing. But from the word go, yeah. there's things have changed from the guy that John Brophy and a couple others are telling me about um so believe it or not there there is a point there where John Kordak the next year especially when Doug Carpenter was there you know his physical

part is huge like he's a heavy. So we brought him the heavyweight, a guy who could play whatever, but because Brofe was orgasmic about this guy, he would, you know, get on him hard. Kordak would go out and do something even stupider. And then, you know, the off-ice stuff. And that's one reason I'm careful because of just the off-ice stuff. Like I do things at the Hockey Hall of Fame Induction Week.

I get to do the fan form and that. And, and so you chat with the guys behind the scene. And one year it was Cam Neely. And we're talking about John Kordek when they played in Portland together. Like he made the all-star team as a defenseman. I'm not here trying to justify the trade. I mean,

he's just talking about like what a force he was, but also when he had to spend a week at Kordek's house in Edmonton, because they were going to a power skating school there in the summer. Like he just said, man, that was a tough place. Like I got a sense where he came from.

So anyway, I, uh, I always kid about, oh wait, it wasn't Cordick for Cortland. It was Cordick for Cortland and a six round pick.

They go, who was the pick? I go, I don't know. He didn't pan out anyway. It doesn't really matter. Or I say that I thought Serge Savard said Shane Corson.

I don't know. Whatever. I don't know. Whatever. But yeah, it was, um, it basically, and then a couple months later, I did. I worked hard and got John Brophy fired. But very amicably. Got him paid off, everything.

But just, okay, I've given you this, you know, and this is really not working out. And, you know, I'm the guy that ends up wearing it, but that's the way life goes. And 30 years later, you still wear it. Now, for what it's worth, before Sean McIndoe goes by the name Down Goes Brown, which is nice because, yeah, later I'm going to play a clip in which Down Goes Brown is invented, if you will. So we're going to have that later from Bowen.

But before he was like a famous guy, he just had a blog. And him and I used to have these arguments via our blogs. And I never liked the Cortnall for Cordic trade, even though I grew to kind of like Cordic as a leaf, actually. I didn't like the Cortnall for Cordic trade, even though I made it. Sean, famously, I don't know if he was just trying to get some attention, but he put together a pretty good argument as to why the Cordic for Cortnall trade was very good for Toronto.

So it's probably still online. I'll send you a link. Well, I'll, I'll, you know, I'd be interested to see it. All I know is when I'm describing it,

I'm describing the reasons it was made. Right. So I, you know, so, so, okay. So I'm gone by then.

So my understanding is 90, 91, like 89, 90 had been kind of okay. So 90-91, Kordick is with the Leafs, the star of the season, gets sent to the New Market Saints, and then, wait,

on Friday, what did he go? I'm trying to get it right. Fell asleep in Frank Anzalone's meeting, snoring loudly. This is a gift you have, by the way. This is quite the gift. And then during the game on Saturday or something like that, Anzalone started yelling at him and he just kind of goes, hey, cool your jets, Frankie baby.

And then he almost got a fight with somebody on his own team on the bench. And then on the bus ride on the way home, word came down, the Leafs had lost, and he started cheering loudly. So he was gone the next week. So, I mean, that was the exodus. He was a troubled soul, though. Oh, very. You know what? He was a funny guy and whatever.

But no. And, yeah, and as we're finding out more and more, the guy roomed with Brian Fogarty, the Nordiques put the two of them together and they both had tragic and kind of self-inflicted demises. I remember cutting out, I had a scrapbook at the time and I cut out the article, when he

passed away, I cut out the Toronto Star articles about John Cordick and put them in my scrapbook. He wore 27, right? Yeah. We killed that number. I was born on the 27th. Dave Semenko, Miroslav Inichuk, and John Kordick.

But I always gravitated towards the number 27s because I was born on the 27th of the month. So I think that's how it worked in my mind anyway. But I was only involved with John Kordick for seven months. Okay. No, no, no. What I mean is, Russ Kortner was seven years.

There's so many other guys like Kenny Raggett and Bester, Borea I mean is, there's so many, like Russ Cortland was seven years. There's so many other guys like Kenny Raggett and Bester, you know, Borya Somming, Rick Five, like, you know, guys that, like when you go from your time with Maple Leafs

that so much more history about, but it's interesting that is the one name that's first and foremost for a lot of people. Topper Harley wants to know what's the trade

that you're most proud of? Like of all the trades you were, and I know that I understand like you as general manager, Harold Ballard, is it fair to say Harold Ballard is playing you like a marionette? Like you don't have a typical powers of a GM. You have a.

Yes and no. I mean, if I, if I, I mean, then I couldn't have made that trade. Right. Right.

And that's a bad trade and that's on me. Okay. So he didn't overrule me on that. So no, cause I, I had figured Harold out. Okay. About how to work him and play him. Money was a

problem because you couldn't take big contracts, so you're limited that way as well. And also, the other part, Mike, is and this is where I identify it and it's tough to stay the course is when you're in last, you can't believe the vultures. The vultures just circle. You are

playing from a weakened deck. And I believe, much like happened here in Toronto nowadays, the strength was all those young guys. And I mean, Austin Matthews now, people are talking about only X number of guys have had the first two seasons like him. Him, Wendell Clark,

Daniel Merriwa. People forget Daniel Merriwa. 36 his first year? Yeah, he got hurt the third year, never the same. Anyway, the point being is, what was the question? What's the trade you're most proud of? Kenny Raggett for two first round

picks. It was because Kenny Raggett needed out as well for a number of reasons. As a matter of fact, his last 20 games, he was something like 217 and one. You know, later you find out there was stuff going on within the team that, you know, off the ice that was causing problems about marriages and other things.

Right. He wasn't directly involved with that part, but he was directly involved being friends with the parties and it just was unfortunate. So I talked to Bob, I made three trades with Bobby Clark, not all big ones or anything, like I traded Al Secord to him for a fifth round pick, the Bill Root, Mike Southers trade

that everyone talks about. But this one, you know, just worked on, I felt, you know, Ken Raggett, Buffalo, Washington, Philadelphia were interested and I thought I worked that well coming down the trade deadline. Got two first round picks. The picks didn't end up being great,

but it wasn't a very good draft. So in hindsight, you say, well, there's a reason they were offering up their two first round picks as well. But yeah, so that was one as far as, it's just unfortunate we didn't get, like Felix Potvin was still a few years away, you know, as far as getting the next kind of goaltender to fill the void.

Is there one trade, I mean, what is the one trade, if there's one trade you could call a mulligan and take it back, what trade would that be? So, you know, keep in mind, I was assistant general manager for, I think it was eight years, and only general manager for a year and a half. But I'm involved in all the trades, okay?

So it's funny because you do things as an organization, and I always think my time with the Leafs was 14 wonderful years, and just a brief part was being GM. Okay. So it's funny cause you do things as an organization. And I always think my time with the Leafs was 14 wonderful years and just a brief part was being GM. Right. So obviously, so the Russ Cortland trade would be the one in a heartbeat. I would, I would love to take back for so many reasons.

Um, it probably liberated Russ. It did wonders for him. And, you know, then after that, like I can't, because again,

I was dealing with a weakened hand. So I can't say the, I was dealing with a weak in hand. So I can't say the year before when we had our triumvirate that I was talking before I was formerly the general manager, we got some talk going about Garth Butcher for Russ Cortnall. Garth was a better defenseman back then. He was in Vancouver.

So in hindsight, I wish that had happened, that we got a front four defenseman that way. That'd be it. And he ended up becoming a Maple Leaf at some point. Later on. But at that point, he was a more preeminent defenseman. He was never an all-star than he was later in his career with

the Leafs. Andrew Ward again. He read Wendell Clark's memoir, Bleeding Blue. And Wendell talks about how kind Harold Ballard was to him and his parents when he started in Toronto. This is Andrew Ward talking still. Sometimes Ballard would pick on players and swing the lead or is he swinging the lead?

Swinging the lead would be his line. To stir up the media and to make it look like he was lighting a fire under players to keep them motivated. And he says, Wendell, this is a quite good question, but Wendell wrote that Harold would let the players do whatever they needed to play their best. And a lot of fans don't agree with this statement. So Andrew Ward wants to know, with your front row seat, if that's true.

So the question there, I guess, if you pull that out there, would Harold let players do whatever they wanted to play their best? Yeah. I'll tell you what. And Wendell is a great observer, a great student. And the point being is Harold Ballard, unlike any

other except Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones, you know, whatever the modern days guys are that just can't get enough of the spotlight, everybody else really shies away from it. And, uh, in his case, and, and like I said, cause he would plop in my office first thing in the morning and we'd have this wonderful fatherly, grandfatherly chat. And then you'd looked at the paper and it could be like Stelic, uh, in hot water, whatever.

Like his point was you had, if you want to get the headlines, you got to be out there. Now it may hurt other people in the process, like Rick five was captain, but he didn't care. He said, no, you got to be thicker than that. Like he just, I don't worry about that stuff. Well, you know, people do worry about that stuff. So that would be, and you'll get in the lead out of it. And that, that, that would be his kind of lines, but around everybody, he was great around the players. Like, you know, he was, he was great. Around the players, like, you know, he was great that way.

Some, like, you know, Daryl Sittler and guys like that, it would be, they're upset about money at the end because it was an organization that, so we had a salary cap before there was a salary cap. So you're at a bit of a disadvantage that way. Harold could spot a phony. He was good at that. And even though people say,

well, Gordo, isn't Harold a phony? I don't know if I'd call him a phony because actually he was easy to figure out. He was that way, right? He wanted to be larger than life, huge ego, too much interfering about certain parts that you never were really going to be all you could be as an organization because it was important that he would be in charge. But Wendell Clark gets drafted in 1985, drafts here in Toronto, and Harold just liked him, loved his parents, Les and Alma, just down-to-earth people. And after he said,

hey, make sure you send some flowers to their room and all that, just little touches that way. And so he just loved the genuineness of them. So when we go out West, Les Clark was on the bus, got to be one of the guys and all that. And Wendell, they liked that part, but Harold

just respected what they were. What was your relationship like with Wendell Clark? Oh, if you look at me, I'm the guy who gives him the sweater in 85. It's the first time the draft is on TV. So we had a test run the day before with TV. It was CBC. And so they're saying,

okay, you know, here's what's going on and all that kind of stuff. And I'm, and Don Whitman's going to interview them as they get drafted. It was down the convention center in Toronto. So we didn't tell who we're picking first overall. So I actually went to talk to a couple of guys and Donnie Meehan had Craig Wolanin and Wendell Clark. And I just said, if we pick one of you two guys, I'm going to get a sweater on you. First of all, at the draft table, the camera's right over our table and we

got all kinds of sweaters with different names underneath so we don't want to pull like, hey, that's a Wolanin, hey, that's a Simpson, hey, that's Sandlack, whatever. I roll up the Clark sweater so I go to be right, I can see Wendell. The bleacher's there. It's very intimate that. We announce him so I go to be right. I can see Wendell. This is, you know, the bleachers there. It's very intimate, that.

And so we announce him. So I got to go forward. I want to get that bloody sweater on. Boom. Like Don Whitman just knocks him out. So if you look at the video, Don Whitman walks onto the floor, which had been the prearranged thing with Wendell. I'm the sour looking guy behind him holding the sweater.

And then when it stops and the camera loses it then i actually make a point of grabbing wendell take his jacket he puts on the sweater huge ovation convention center is not big so it sounds phenomenal right and it's the it's the start of the best day you know going on moving forward and if you look at subsequent guys that are drafted the pr guys kind of giving up even trying to give them a sweater early. I was the guinea pig about that. So I've, you know, Wendell has been, yeah, it's just been a great friendship. Well, that man owned

this city. Right now, it'll be in the picture I'll take with you after, but I'm wearing my What Would Wendell Do? t-shirt right now. Like, for guys my age, when Wendell came, like Captain Clark, it was just, he was, it didn't matter. You know, he would have the two goals

and the couple of fights, and this guy did it all. It was just so entertaining. Well, the great one is, one of the great people I met, John McCauley, whose son Wes is the best referee in the NHL. John was head of officiating, and he was the best referee before he got injured and had to retire early. And it was Wendell's rookie year. This 19-year-old kid of regular size,

we're dead last in the NHL. He scored 37 or 34 goals. I get my years mixed up, but took on everybody. You know, John Kordek, Rick Tockett, Ben Wilson, you name it. And we're up in the press box and I forget what team it was,

but Wendell gets in a fight and then it's over. So it's near the end of a period, not the third period, but you know, you go to the dressing room instead of going to the penalty box because say there's 28 seconds left. And John McCauley goes, look at that.

He beats the crap out of one of their guys, 19-year-old kid, then he skates by the other team's bench and nobody says a word. He said that's respect. I mean, it's been on the internet forever now, but it's to Metallica's Hero of the Day, and it's called All Heart. And it's basically a fan put together this montage of Wendell Clark moments to Metallica's, uh,

hero of the day. And I'm telling you, I, there was a period where I'd watch it every day. And my oldest who's 16 now, uh, who lost the championship at the, uh,

the house league at George Bell last night. But when he was a little guy, we watched that Wendell Clark montage over and over again, and it just jazzed us up. It just amped us up. It was amazing. Yeah, and Mike Murphy had a good line

that Wendell is a guy that nobody comes at you the first five seconds harder than Wendell Clark, whether it's skating, hitting, fighting. And we were in Vancouver once, and I remember we were in vancouver once and i remember when this classic old ball like having the pre-game meal and something some couple guys started chirping each other i can't remember they were chirping each other about something and then someone threw something and then someone threw a chicken wing a gary lehman and then he threw something back and it hit wendell by mistake and then then, boom! It was like a car wash. Everything's being thrown everywhere.

It was like five seconds of food fight chaos from Wendell Clark. And then I can remember he's holding something, I don't know, a pitcher of juice. I go, Clarky! Clarky! And then he gone. But his reaction was he got hit by an errant piece of chicken or something, whatever.

And he just, and guys are cowering and whatever. And fortunately, it wasn't like significant damage or anything like that. It just involved some cleaning up and stuff like that. But like, yeah, whatever. Wendell played for keeps, okay? And that first five seconds, you better be ready. Oh, hero of the day. Now, while I still have you at the Leafs here,

Shane Smith wants me to ask you about Walt Padubny. He's got a love of WWF wrestling. Is there a Walt Padubney wrestling story? Yeah. And Walt passed a few years ago, unfortunately. And that was a real good trade by Jerry McNamara, getting Walt Padubney. He was playing with Edmonton's farm team in Wichita. He loved wrestling, loved wrestling. And I know, watched all the time. And once, because you had time to kill, and we were in Minnesota, and they were out by the airport there, where we seemed to get in trouble all the time.

Anyway, at the Marriott, just across from the Met Center. And so we went over to watch wrestling. I think Guy Kinnear, the trainer, Walt, a few people. I went, and Walt called every match. He'd seen them all. He'd seen them in Toronto the previous week. So everyone that went out there, he said, here's what's going to happen.

Wow. And it sure did. So he had a neat, and he coached in Alaska later on in that, and unfortunately died at a young age. But he was a neat character, big guy. I remember a couple of key playoff goals by Walt Padubny. And there's one I remember, and it's such a vague memory. I remember hearing the call on the radio,

and it was like the puck was slowly rolling. It was like rolling, rolling. I was used to baseball calls, and it would be like hooking, hooking, foul, or whatever. But this was like a puck that was rolling and across the line, I don't know, from Walt Bedobny. The memory is a copy of a copy of a copy now, but I do remember some key goals by Walt Bedobny. Well, absolutely.

He played on the line with Peter Inachuk and Miroslav Frietscher. He was sort of the token third-check player. Right. And that's when they had, and there was Julego, Vyvan, Anderson as the first line. And so there were snippets of real good times.

Snippets. Speaking of that, so like we were awful as you might remember. Yeah, we were awful, but we had that, it was a best of five in the first round back then

and I remember we swept the Blackhawks in three games. Oh. And it was 86, I think. 86, Wendell's rookie year. That made it all worthwhile. I'm trying to remember, Mike, but I think, okay, so say the playoff ticket redemption was, say, 60%, maybe less.

So 40% of people that never got a chance for tickets, Leaf diehards, and tickets weren't stupidly priced. So you could got a chance not just for tickets, but for great tickets. So in Chicago, we win the first two games. You know, just everything goes right, including the officiating in one of the games, if I remember correctly. Everything goes right. Then game three is at home.

And the Gardens was never like that because it was fans that don't get to go to games. And we kid, God love my mom and my Aunt Peggy, they were even joining in the Secord Sucks chants that were going on. Secord was with Chicago then and it was surreal. It was like a Roman Coliseum. It was like everything. It's that picture of Wendell with blood on his jersey whooping up a goal because he got a typical Wendell fight, goal night

and swept Chicago in three and that is my best I'd say on ice memory of the 1980s. You know what? Me too, I think, because I watched that on TV with my brother. We celebrated. We found my mom liked Diet Cokes, and there were cans of Diet Coke, and we grabbed Diet Cokes, and we pretended they were

champagne, and we were spraying it. It started a tradition. We felt like we just won the Stanley Cup when we swept the Blackhawks in that first round. Yeah. Problem offseason is, and that's the problem with teams we have upset, you can't live off that. You've got to keep building from that. But yeah, that was just a magical time for great Leaf fans. Because I remember we pushed

St. Louis to seven games, right, in the second round. It was that close. It was that close and it was weird. The game seven in St. Louis was just blasé and actually Harold Ballard got pissed at Dan Maloney. It had been Dan Maloney's last game as a coach. And that's part of it.

He had this love affair with John Brophy, who was then coaching the St. Catharines team in the American Hockey League. So yeah, took St. Louis in a hard-fought series to seven games. Man. Jerry the Garbage Man. That's his handle on Twitter. Jerry the Garbage Man wants to know, was dealing with, he says,

was dealing with Harold Ball says, was dealing with Harold Ballard, like, on Seinfeld with Steinbrenner. I guess that's his comparison. Well, I'll tell you where it was. Like, first of all, like I said, I figured out the best way to try to approach and deal

with him. I think that was one of my strengths. I get it, you know, like, I was 30, well, I was younger than that, but I was 30 as GM, but I was in my 20s in the other capacities. He was in his 80s. As my dad was in his 80s, I understood what being in your 80s is. It's a bit different. Your scopes of reference are quite different. But the one thing I'll throw out there that does show how it was a little bit different, that the big thing was he had to show he owned the building. On the road, he was wonderful. He was great. But at the building, he had to show he owned the building. Like on the road, he was wonderful.

He was great. But at the building, he had to be the guy. That's why he sat in the bunker, you know, and things like that. And so we were losing to Boston, whatever the score, by quite a bit in the third period in some game, some random game. And there's one lonely phone in the press box in the pre-cell phone era day. And it rings. And you always didn't like if you were,

so no, it's for you. So it'd be, it was switchboard. Cause Harold would just dial zero and tell switchboard to get them, whomever. And Gordy, call Mr.

Ballard. Okay. So I'm standing in the press box. I'm looking down the bunker extension two nine one. I know the extension. I punch it two nine one. And you see him reacting to it ringing and he's good. Hello.

And I go, hi, Mr. Ballard, it's Gord, you wanted... And this is before I'm general manager. I'm just saying, like, you wanted me? He goes, oh, yeah! What the F is the organist playing? And I'm going, like, we're losing 8-0 in the third period. What is the organist playing? So I kind of go, oh, so you're not happy

with what he's playing? And he goes, no! But he'd have a funny line. Tell him to smarten up or I'll send him home and I'll come up and sing. You know, just something weird. So I, because he can see you. It's a weird power trip, right? I know.

So I can see you. He can see you. So I walk down to the organist and I really just give him, hey, everything good? What a bummer game, blah, blah, blah. So he could follow that I'd follow through on his order. So that's what I talk about, just kind of the expecting the unexpected.

All right, almost 90 minutes deep here, and I haven't got to get you out of the frame. I got to get you out of here. So you resign on August 11th, 1989, and this is from the article at the time, citing interference from Maple Leafs owner Harold Ballard. So tell us, is that why you quit? Or did you really quit?

Or is that some spin job? What happened there? Well, it's not a full spin job, but it was, you know, the point being was I had made a vow over the summer that I would get things straightened out about a real coach coming into place.

George Armstrong was there. He'd taken over. I talked him into taking over. He didn't want to. And then for whatever reason, as I learned with Harold, I wasn't the fair-haired boy anymore. And then for whatever reason, as I learned with Harold, I wasn't the fair-haired boy anymore. And George now was the chief bottle washer. And I was helping remedy the

situation. I got George a contract. So if Harold got pissed at him because he wouldn't coach, he really couldn't be fired. And anyway, whatever. And then the clock struck 12 in a lot of ways. And I had offers from three other teams which i guess technically is tampering and um i like i it was getting late it's it's a it's a decision there's an element would i do a bit of a redo um yeah possibly i certainly wouldn't have gone to new york but because working with neil smith was like work was worse than working with harold ball. I had other opportunities I should have taken. But, yeah, in some ways it maybe defined me a bit that I did leave on my old terms.

And that team in 89-90 was a really good, exciting team. And I knew it was going to be. I knew it was going to be. But you couldn't, the coaching charade of George, and I'm talking to guys like Barry Melrose and Dan Maloney again, and I'm kind of talking to them saying, look, can you come? You'll be the head coach, except you won't really be the head coach. Oh, really?

You know, and I'm kind of, you know. And anyway, and then Harold wouldn't want nothing to do with Roger Nielsen, who I thought would be greatest. What a perfect, I thought, tonic for the coaching situation. But anyway, it made my move and got some experience.

And you were assistant GM for the Rangers and then let go in 1991 at some point? Oh, I was fired, yeah. I was fired. I was not downsized. So it was, you know, great experience. Great got to work with, actually, of all things, Roger Nielsen then, Larry Plough, Doug Sotard, Donnie Waddell, Wayne

Cashman. And so it ended up being a positive life experience. But the Toronto thing was just, that was me, right? And I left so abruptly, too. Like, I left on a Friday, went there on a Monday. And, you know, you never really got settled. And, you know, and I learned a life lesson, like I said, with Neil Smith, who you got to be more careful of your friends.

Like, one thing about Harold Ballard, you knew he was the boss. Right. So you went, anyway. And so I look back. So you learned a valuable lesson. I learned great life lessons. Let. So you went, anyway, and so I look back. So you learned a valuable lesson. I learned great life lessons. Let's transition you into broadcasting.

So Justin, he wants to know how easy and hard the transition was, but I think that'll come out organically as we talk about what you did.

So what's the first broadcasting thing you did? And is it Ringside? Like, when does Ringside come into play? Because I watched Ringside with Rick Hodge,

who's a friend of the show. Yeah, I said that to you. I'm like,ide with Rick Hodge, who's a friend of the show. Yeah, I said that to you. I'm like, I love Rick Hodge. What a treasure. So my thing was, after Jerry McNamara, I really, you know, I've been involved in media relations and that, so I really wanted to make a point

of trying to be credible and upfront with the Toronto fans. And post-game, there was a segment, I did a segment with Dave Hodge, and he asked tough questions. And what I liked about it, it gave you a chance for tough answers. Right. And they sort of made it a kind of a regular thing called generally speaking, which I think actually annoyed Harold that I did too much of that.

But I thought it was important to try to be credible that way. So then when my management career is over, and I'm still looking for jobs in management, but all of a sudden some opportunities come up about broadcasting. And it's just funny how they come up. And one was the end of one year doing Rinkside, just a few episodes. I got to give Jim Taddy also credit. He brought me on as a Leaf guy for global TV games

on Sportsline. Yeah. Yes, guy. So I go on post-game. It was called Generally Speak. No, it was something else. Anyway, so I was on for that. So I'm getting media thing that way.

And then also, so then Ringside morphs into a regular show, but also in 1991, I have a great meeting with new general manager, Cliff Fletcher about being his assistant. And it was a great meeting. And I didn't get the job, but Bill Waters got the job. And then very suddenly, they needed a color commentator

for the Leaf game, about 10 games in the season. And Alan Davis, who was a good friend from the telemedia radio network that did the Leafs, he, I remember the call. He goes, Gordy,

I'm making that call now. And we need somebody in Washington tomorrow night. And so I ended up doing color there. David Poyle was nice enough to let me pre-tape because I was so nervous so I went to his office and pre-taped my inner my intermission interview and then it just kind of grew and grew I was doing things on uh on Canada AM and uh on and on and on then you know more TV stuff this leaves this week which was so all of a sudden I was a media guy and I wasn't so much like a management guy.

I was still the ex-GM, which gave me a point of difference than most media guys, but I was doing all that. But I do want to mention like Rick Hodge. Well, I have a quote from Rick Hodge you'll want to hear. So I'm friendly with Rick Hodge and I asked him about Ringside and I enjoy, I personally watched Ringside. I remember you and Rick Hodge hosted Ringside and he says, you're truly, this is him talking, Rick Hodge, you're truly, you, Gord, are truly one of the nicest people he's ever met.

Forget worked with, he's ever met. And he says, you're another former non-broadcaster who's done very well on hard work and talent as a talk show host. So yeah, Rick's a big fan of yours as well. So we would tape at Monday mornings, and he was doing a morning show on Ch So yeah, Rick's a big fan of yours as well. So we would tape it Monday mornings and he was doing a morning show on Chum, very successful morning show. So I would get to Pyman Studios.

God rest his soul. Rick Pyman was an independent producer and it was way out in Mississauga. So I would beat rush hour, be there early. And with the producer, I'd get stuff ready because then I would have to come home and do my talk show on the fan at one o'clock. Right.

Oh, we're going to get to that. But anyway, so I was tight for time and then Haji would show up after his morning show. So we didn't have a big window and Haji's big line always was, okay, where do you want me to get you? So he was great. I'd have stuff pretty well ready.

And whenever you said, this is where I want to go. Um, Rick had this great ability to take you there. It was this, it was this neat marriage. I don't know how many years it was. We, Rick had this great ability to take you there. It was this neat marriage. I don't know how many years it was. We did very little. We did the odd things socially, but

yeah, he was a gem for me. That helped me professionally, and he was huge in helping me, and that was fun. And he owned a lot of cats. I don't know if you knew that. I knew that kind of stuff. I didn't know he lived up in some mysterious place. Yeah, and he had a plantation full of cats. I don't know if you knew that. I knew that kind of stuff. I didn't know, like, he lived up in some mysterious place. Yeah, and he had, like,

a plantation full of cats. And he said his neighbor made beef jerky there, and he just loved that wherever he was. And, you know, God love Rick. Yeah, he's in Niagara now co-hosting Easy Rock with Lori Love.

That's where you'll find Rick Hodge. Now, speaking of Rick's, I better not forget to tell you this. So Rick Ralph sent me a note to tell me, he said, if he, talking about you, Gord, if he tells you I was last to leave his Christmas parties, don't believe him. So that's from Rick Ralph. Yeah.

I had Lisa and myself, we had, I don't know how many years we had it. Like, I think the best Christmas party going, and then you get kids and stuff, so it gets tougher, right? Right. So, and just a collection of people. And Rick Ralph would be, he would be the last. And then a couple of times he would fly home to, I think, Halifax. And he would kid.

He goes, geez, the guy next to me, if I was on a window, I had to go to the washroom about 20 times. But he just was a funny guy, good guy dropping by. So Rick's been a good friend. We all know he's been through a lot. And he's kicking ass in Winnipeg. I know. That's good to hear.

Good to hear. I'm going to play a clip. So you mentioned doing color and stuff. So Joe Bowen does play-by-play. You do color? Is that the team? Yeah. Okay, that's a clip.

We already mentioned Sean McIndoe, who goes by the name Down Goes Brown, but let's hear the origin here since I have it queued up. All right, second best fight of the week. I say second best fight. Bob Probert and Ty Domi. Well, okay, maybe it was the best fight of the week. I think the best fight of the week was this one coming up right here.

Yes, guys. Hits with one throwing right hands at Lefebvre. Another right hand by Brown. Lefebvre gets an uppercut. Down Goes Brown! Down goes Brown. Down goes Brown. And Lefebvre leaves him there. TKO.

TKO. Robbie Brown down like he was shot. Hey, Bonesy and Gord Stelich, sure have fun doing those games on radio. I got chills. I'm not going to lie. Well, you know, I got to do the color for four years, and the great runs in 93, 94. Like, I got the best kind of years.

And that was, Sylvain Lefebvre was part of that, so it was so exciting, you know? And Sylvain Lefebvre didn't fight a ton. So I just was so pumped to be part of the games. Joe Bowen called a lot of boxing as well as hockey, and you can see why. So this brought out the best of them. And I still, I gotta say, I'm cool about fighting not being a part

of it anymore, but that's what I loved. I love the great one-on-one fights that way. So a big thing you don't do, you don't jump on the play-by-play guy. So I let it breathe. So that's unusual that I would actually jump, but I'm caught in the motion. And TKO is not a bad thing to add, even though it sounds barbaric

in a lot of ways. It was just so jacked. In that clip I played, there's a moment where Bowen goes quiet for a moment and I'm told, and you can confirm this, he knocks off his headset. I believe if you listen to the clip, he's like...

I don't think he knocks it off, but he hits it. Joe's pretty good. Joe doesn't get... Just something like that. But also, yeah. It was pumped. Well, Sean enjoyed that clip so much. He named himself after that clip. Down Goes Brown. That's great.

That's a great handle. And if I don't play this now, I'll never get to it. You were not with the franchise at this time. This is the Pat Burns era, I believe. I'll never get to it. You were not with the franchise at this time. This is the Pat Burns era, I believe. I was doing the media there. Yes, you were calling the games, but this was a lot of fun, too. And the Leafs, I don't know if they do that anymore.

It was a different era when there was Blue Jays songs. You know, Mike, again, Rick Pyman, Pyman Productions produced Ringside, but also for a couple years, I think about three or four years, we did a weekly show called Leafs This Week. And it moved around, right? It moved around.

It was Jim Taddy and myself. Then it was Dan Schulman and myself. And then it was myself. I don't know. It just moved around. Wow. But we were there to film all this, video all this. So the making of the Leafs are the best.

Glenn Anderson got all the guys there. What rink was it? Do you remember? It was at Maple Leaf Gardens. I thought it was outdoors. Well, they taped everyone. Oh, I see. Because they were kids and they joined a team.

Oh, yeah, yeah. They did all that stuff. Like Glenn Anderson had the big vision. But there was a Sunday where the guys, after practice, stayed at Maple Leaf Gardens and someone was coronated. And Glenn Anderson was the guy that got them to stay. So part of the Leafs this week, we did like a backstage thing about this. The video you find now where

they have that there's like uh kids are playing shinny outdoors and it always looked to me like renny park but i don't think it was renny park but that's because i wasn't there for that but could be yeah but it's just there when they did the stuff they're on the zamboni and waving and all that i don't think this would fly in 2018 like i don't think the leaves could get a would do something like this it just seems like a product of its time. No, but you know, I'm looking at old things like Tony Gwynn and Ron Greshner and stuff, and it's all hokey now, right? It's all hokey now.

I mean, I look at in arena advertising now, you've got Morgan Rielly and those guys playing those fun name the tune thing and stuff. I think that's pretty cool what they're doing, 2018 style. Morgan Rielly, he's developed nicely there. We were looking for a first, a number one defenseman.

I think we found one. My youngest is named Morgan. It's a girl, but that name goes both ways, of course. But let's talk about the fan here. When do you join the fan 1430 as it was known back then?

I have a relationship because of working with the Leafs and the fan is a flagship station for the telemedia sports network that does the Leafs and does the Jays broadcast. And I was sort of the only, you know, the media friendly contact with the Leafs. So I know a lot of people there. And then when I come back on my ass from New York,

and again, like I say, I might, my first thing is trying to get another management job, but all these little things start happening elsewhere, whether it's ringside or whatever it may be. And then it starts with a leaf broadcast, like being Bill Waters' replacement. The fan's not on the air yet. And then they start in 92 with kind of a soft start. They just do nights. Right. And they find this guy, Dan Schulman. Holy mackerel.

That just, you know. So then when the fan initially launches, Damien and I kind of kid about it. We thought we'd have a bigger role, but it's Mike Inglis, Joe Bowen, Stephanie Smythe in the mornings, Steve Simmons, Mary Ormsby, 10 to 12, Dan Schulman from noon to four,

Bob McCowan from four to seven with Jim Hunt, and then Stormy Norman Rumack and Jim Richards at nights. So we're just occasional players, Damien and myself. So we're on the Schulman show, The Odd Time, and then we start doing Sundays, Damien and I. And first he's doing a football show with Leo Cahill, and then I'm doing

something. Then we kind of morph together and we're just having a blast doing Sundays from like 9 a.m to 12 noon and a few changes as always happens on the fan and lo and behold it's the next august that um i end up the gordon damien show ends up being a full-time you know a full show from noon to four right on the fan and then and then it's not that long again it's funny people talk about Damien and myself, but how archaic it is that the editor of the Toronto Star didn't want their personalities doing shows anymore.

So he and Mary Armsby, because they had existing agreements, it was understood they would finish that agreement and then not be on anymore. So I, you know, I couldn't find anyone comparable to Damien. The, don't get me wrong.

The fan was very glad not to pay anybody else either. So it became a one man show and I, I morphed into the, the big show and then the morning show and Mike, it was a 17 year run, 11 years with the, after the, you know, mainly the big show, but Gordon Damien and then Landry and Stelic for six years. So a 17 year run doing a show in, on the fan. And, you know, I'd listened to the Fan New York when I was there with the Rangers. They were the only station in the state. So I thought, wow, this would be cool. This would be

cool if it got going in Toronto. And it got going in Toronto, and my in was being, I was already doing color. So I was kind of in with the people there. Yeah, you mentioned the run, and I have a special message from somebody you co-hosted with at the Fan 590. But just before we get there, I got to ask you about these names.

So what can you tell me, since he is coming in on Friday, and I've never met the man, but damn, is he talented. Tell me a bit about working with Dan Schulman, if you don't mind. Oh, geez. The only criticism I have was Dan would have us in on a show when the fan launched like from noon to four and Dan was so good and I was so nervous and new that I would quite often try to make my voice sound like Dan Schulman's you know try to do because he's so perfect and that and then and Don Cherry gave me a great line he goes Gordy Gordy Gordy my boy you're doing great I love you I love you you're great and you know what don't ever get smooth like those other guys which from Don Cherry is actually a compliment but I realized yeah don't try to pretend your voice is like Dan Shulman's

because he just blows you out of the water. You know, Mike, he is, he stayed in Thornhill. I know he lives downtown Toronto now. And I can name a lot of people. You can name a lot of people too that things went to their head, both on the hockey side or the media side. He ain't one of them.

He is not one of them. And just, he is as good as it gets broadcasting wise and he is the real deal as a person what was your relationship like with bob mccowan you know funny i know bob from way back when listen to him i my you know my favorite time at the fan it wasn't my most lucrative but was doing the big show so let me get it right here so say from when things settled down after the lockout of 94 when it looked like the fan was going to be flushed the sports format so like when when doug ackers came and him and nelson millman were in charge so it would just we could start breathing again so there

was a span where say it was nine years that i I'm hosting the big show from one to four. And then I was the replacement for McCown when he went on vacation. So he took like six weeks anyway off. And then I would replace Landry or whoever in the mornings to go on with Pat Marsden. So I get like 12 weeks doing that. So, you know, and then Bob and I would cross over other times. So it was like, it was good. I mean, I don't know i i i'm still i'm not wounded anymore

by what happened in 2010 when uh getting fired because that was like a shocker for me anyway and i still don't quite understand everything that happened i don't like i i do think bob not so much had a part in me personally but i think he kind of said we need a whole new lineup, you know, like, so they kind of scratched the whole batting order. And I thought I was doing well batting second or third, whatever, whatever I was on the pecking order. So, um, so that part I'm, I'm never quite clear about, but you move forward, but I, I've always respected that he understands the medium better than anybody. And, you know, he's larger than life in that medium. I think you've met him, I think, haven't you? No, he says he doesn't like to do these kinds of things.

Yeah, because he's actually, if you met him, you would go, wow, that's a pretty unassuming guy socially. Like he's kind of, you know. I mean, he did something with Richard Deitch. Did I say that right? I always forget the last name. But then it turned out, well well they were negotiating that he was going to actually join the show so it made more sense in retrospect but yeah uh so yeah so but i heard him talk about his mask like he talked about somewhere i read or heard he talks about how there's the persona of kind of uh cantankerous curmudgeon bob that's a mask he wears and then

there's real like home bob yeah and his conflict and it sounded kind of cantankerous curmudgeon Bob that's a mask he wears. And then there's real like home Bob. Yeah. And his conflict, and it sounded kind of sad that sometimes he'll meet somebody in public and he'll feel he's got to give them a radio Bob who's a fake Bob. Yeah.

And he can't be home Bob. And it sounded really like, I think your way is better. Just be gored. Yeah. Well, and, you know, I got to say Bob made a real effort. He still does think to socialize. So I was part of the social group to a degree to entertain. And I got to say, I never really reciprocated. And it's just I never thought of like, because Bob sounds so big, you never think he wants to hang with you. You know what I mean? Kind of thing. And so years ago, so I got all the respect in the world for him. I got a good personal relationship with him. I would consider him a friend, but I don't know,

you know, I'm certainly not a close friend. I don't know what a close friend is of Bob McCallum's. Yeah. But let's talk about another gentleman that I actually quite like. He's been over here twice and you worked with him closely, Damien Cox. Damien Cox, my first visit with him,

I couldn't quite read him. He was a little chilly, like a little tough to kind of read, but he apparently had a good time and wanted to come back. And then he opened up more the second time and I saw more of the real Damien because we played his 10 favorite songs of all time and he told us why he loves the songs.

And he just sort of like dropped his curmudgeonly persona and he was a real guy and he was far more likable. Who's the real Damien Cox? Tell me a bit about Damo. Boy, I always hate that answer when they say a mixture of the two. I don't even know if that's my answer. It's funny. He just comes on the leaf

beat just when I'm finishing up as general manager. He's got to go, well, this place is crazy. It was crazy times that summer when I was leaving and George Armstrong didn't want to coach and Harold was dying and the vultures were moving in as far as Harold being in poor health and yada, yada, yada. So we sort of get put together by accident.

We're not great friends. We know each other, but we're not social friends. And then we get put together. And my best friend is my brother, Bob, but us together wouldn't be good radio. You know what I mean? People always think that you're supposed to be with your best friend and that, but that doesn't mean good radio necessarily. So whatever happens with Damien and I, it just ends up working.

And part of that, what you're describing is the strength there. So the white hat, the black hat, the whatever. And, you know, for something new to all of a sudden be doing four hours of talk radio, like we were exhausted, we were green, but our personalities and differences really, really just had a natural flow to it. So it was neat knowing you were doing something

really good on air. And I think from time to time, we've done it since then. And we really had a run of being good friends for a while and, you know, doing social things with our spouses and all that stuff. And then things just happen. You grow in different directions. And Damien's just back doing Hockey Central at noon this week.

And of course, usual question. Everyone always challenges somebody about, hey, yeah, you don't return your calls and that kind of thing. And I go, wait a sec, you became the big star and you dumped me. I was unemployed and blah, blah, blah. I'm a sort of kid about it. And just life and things got out of the way. So Damien's been a good friend throughout the years.

Haven't done as much with him recent years. Had a meteoric rise. Is a real talented guy. And very content with what's going on now, even though he's not as big a player as he was two years ago on the TV side. He was just a writer that thrived in all the other mediums. And I would say where there's a lot of people who listen to you, Gord, and there's very few people

who will say like, I don't like Gord. Like, you're not a polarizing guy. I find you're a guy people typically like. They like Gord Stelic. This is my opinion. Yeah, and I realize

that's what you've got to be. You've got to be, I'm not afraid to offer, I mean, there's different things. I'm not afraid to offer an opinion about things. And then my point of difference became that I could be a host

and do in and outs, right? You know, like that thing. So that gave you more value that way and your, quote, pleasing personality is a little bit more acceptable. People would like to have a beer with you, I think. Can I have a beer of Gord? I think a lot of people would love that idea. Well, that's what I am. You want to have a coffee or beer with me, that is me. And that was

always the idea that, you know, Alan Davis and Nelson Millman, all these guys that, oh, I got to mention Peter Burst, by the way, hockey and serious XM. He's a great guy too. Anyway, because he listens to you all the time with that. Oh, great. I'm supposed to mention him more.

But anyway, but the idea always was that sports talk radio is, imagine that everybody is there, that person having a beer or coffee with you, and that's what they feel. And that's what Don and Ron do on Coach's Corner. And that's ultimately, as they say, it's no heavy lifting. We're not breaking the atom here, splitting the atom here, and that's your goal. But yes, for you, that works great. But Damien Cox, for example,

he's polarizing. When I say Damien Cox is coming on my podcast, he's one of a handful of guests where I get a bunch of people excited to hear from Damien, but then I get notes and emails and DMs and tweets about, oh, I'm not going to listen to that because I don't like Damien. He's a guy who can evoke a negative reaction. He's a polarizing guy. And that's genuinely Damien.

He has strong opinions that way and maybe not popular opinions. But you always got it whether it went back to the Howard Cussell era, which was a long time ago, or even the Don... Actually, the Don Cherry, not as much now, but the classic thing would be that

you're the most loved and most hated. And list, you know what? You're on the list. Well, that's the Howard Stern effect. Yeah, you're on the list. Yeah, absolutely. And the other guy, our guy, we talked about him early. We're both Mike Wilner guys. Well, the Jay's Talk

Mike Wilner is a polarizing guy. You should see the notes I get about the people who don't like, they think he's arrogant and condescending on Jay's Talk, okay? Yeah, you know something? One thing I smile when I hear, I got to tell you, dealing with callers is a whole art unto itself.

And that's where, you know, during the day was great. When I, like the big show started, I called it the opening pitch. I learned to talk like 12 minutes and set things up, which you had to do. And that was my sort of my education. You know, come with opinion, come with whatever. Then Stelectricity was the phone-in segment. And then, but around the games, it's a different animal, the callers you get.

And, you know, Mike has been adept and he's been the veteran dealing with passionate baseball fans for so long. Now, before I get to Don Landry, I want to talk about him. I want to just mention somebody else who I heard with you and she's been on this show and I think she's great. Barb DiGiulio.

You still communicate with Barb? No, sorry, about a year ago, Ken Daniels set something up. I love Barb DiGiulio, you still communicate with Barb? No. Sorry, about a year ago, Ken Daniels set something up. I love Barb DiGiulio. I loved working with Barb DiGiulio. I like Barb DiGiulio was like such a part of the family. When we got started, you know, we were kids, relatively speaking, and it was such a buzz and energy and everything was new. And I just, and I'm glad she's very happy doing

the, doing work at CFRB now. I really am. And, you know, it's, it's hard juggling things too, for working moms in general, you know, and here she was entering what's a male bastion kind of thing. And, and I just, uh, I, I just loved her presence and I know she would have appreciated a bigger role ultimately. And I, and I, and I think she deserved a bigger role like you know I think our chemistry was great on air I love that kind of part I love and so so yeah so I mean again because our life moves and we have kids and everything moved but it's it's like I I think of those times and I and I just really really smile and and Barb's presence was huge for the fan as many people people who wrote me to say, ask about Harold Ballard, and there were many, many people who wanted you to talk about Harold Ballard,

and you did a great job. But I also, a lot of people have fond memories of Lunchbag Letdown. So how did you come up with Lunchbag Letdown? It's funny, Damien doesn't remember this, and I give him credit that he thought of it. So we got together with Todd Macklin, who now is back at Rogers, but he was our producer. And before we went on with the Gordon Damien show, we thought of different ideas of what we were going to do about the show. And one of them was, and he came up with it, and he did. So it was Lunchbag, and it was a great one,

just about two particular gripes and let the listeners call and vote best four to seven. And before, we literally had to, like Ian Radar Cunningham was our op, and so we needed a sound effect. So he put a cheesy sound effect in and said, well, we'll do it more professional later on. We never changed that sound effect.

We never changed that sound effect. We never changed that sound effect. And then when Damien left, I kept Lunchbag Letdown against a collar and would do it that way. And then Rob McDougal got those great shirts, their Lunchbag Letdown shirts. And so it was funny. It was just a staple there. And yeah, it's just one of those things that worked. Man, I should give a shout out to Philip Parkinson. He wanted you to play Lunchbag

Letdown today, but we don't have time, Philip. We have a lot of ground to cover here. Bibby T goes to the Harvard Brooker. He calls it Harvard Brooker's fat camp. I don't think that's what they're calling it. Harvey Brooker. Yeah. Harvey. They don't call it the fat camp. No, he called it that in his message to me. But he just said Harvey Brooker passed away a few months ago, and he wanted, yeah, he says, is this an anonymous thing?

Like, am I saying something I shouldn't be saying? Are you public about your Harvey Brooker experience? Okay, no, no, it was called Herbal Magic. So, yeah, I'm public about it. But I met Harvey Brooker at the fan 25th anniversary and was really sad to hear about him passing away and understand the business is still thriving. And in all fairness, I've talked to a couple people that are very satisfied with it, and I am thinking of doing it, right? And Herbal Magic, I had a great run with a company called herbal magic, which I remember those ads, which I believe is out of business. But, uh, but I kept it off

for an hour. It's just the last couple of years I've been doing a lot of work and stuff, whatever. So I'm back, but I think it's been about a 10 year run that I lost it and kept it off. And it was funny. I was away on vacation, 2005 came back and I couldn't have been, you know, you know, when you go on vacation and you just, whatever. And a sales guy came up to me and goes, don't take this the wrong way, but we've got a client, a weight reduction place, and they want to have an on-air personality, be a spokesperson and go on the program. And I said, well, hard not to take this the wrong way, but you know what? You're barking up the right tree. You're taking away excuses for me. And then the next week he said,

okay, I got to tell you, you better be serious about this because Herbal Magic's deal is if you, if Gord Stelic was off the program, we can cancel all our advertising. So anyway, it ended up just, you know, a lot of it's common sense, but I lost 43 pounds.

Oh, good for you. I haven't put it all back on, but I kept it off for a long period of time. And so anyway, Harvey Brooker, I got a friend named Frank Tursini, who lost a lot of weight there. And yeah, so I'm actually at a spot, and I told Harvey Brooker that I'm at a spot about thinking about getting a little bit of help again that way. Okay, good for you, good for you. If you can bike, I just recommend biking. Get a bike, bike everywhere, you'll bleed out. The pounds will fall off.

Okay. That's my suggestion to you. I'm not a biker. Mike Gregotsky wants to know, who came up with the name Stellectricity? He says he always loved it. It's very creative. You know something? I came up with the name Stellectricity, so thank you.

I liked it too. And Dave Cadeau, who is now my boss, he was one of my many producers, and he says, you know what? You came up with Gmail. And it's true. Yeah, I got a note on that too. So Gmail wasn't out there. Blind Dave says, ask Gord if he remembers asking listeners on the big show to send him a Gmail.

The man was ahead of his time. Yeah, which is about the least descriptive I am technology-wise. And Dave Cadeau always says that. I know you said, I just obviously did it with Gmail, Gord Mail, and it was a cover segment and all that kind of stuff. So it's funny. So Stelectricity just added a name,

and it had that kind of lightning effect to try to get some energy for the phone-in segment. And yeah, you know, like the big show really had like a personalized rhythm for me, and Barb was a part of it and all that. And then Pierre Maguire came on board kind of regular, and we hockey-ized it a little bit. And that was my favorite media stuff back then.

I do have a special message for you, so listen up. This is from an old friend. Hey there, Gordy. It's your pal, Donnell S. Cherry here. I just want to say I love you, you know that? You're the best hockey guy out there next to me, of course. Anyway, I know you got that satellite show. I listen all the time. You blast off and go into space every day. That's a beauty, just like Chris Hadfield and stuff.

Anyway, it's great to see you make it back to Earth for Toronto, Mike. See, that's the big time for sure. Good luck next time you blast off, Gordy. You're a beauty. You too, Mike. Well, Don Landry. He's great. Yeah, that's right. Is that Grapes or Don Landry?

It's hard to tell, isn't it? Yeah, I know. That's Don Landry. Yeah, I thought so. You know why? Because the content. And Landry, like, you think about it, man. Like that comedy bit every day.

Now my only observation was after a while, so much effort went into it by him and Jeff Samet. Right. Like it almost became, you know, like that two minutes was the whole show kind of thing. Like there's so much effort. So creative, so funny, so talented. I was involved in like some of them.

Some of them I thought of, very few. And then some he would have me doing the role and stuff. Oh, my God. Like, you know, funny, funny guys. And somewhere, like I remember once Sam Mitchell, at the end of the year when we'd had this great year with Sam Mitchell, and he was on the phone. We're playing back like the comedy bits

that Landry did and some of Sam's answers. Even Sam couldn't stop laughing. Like just so bloody funny, so talented Don Landry. Well, Marty Prankard wants me to ask you how Vito is doing.

So characters from that show, you must get asked often about like how's Vito from Woodbridge doing and all these different characters. Yeah, you know, and Jeff Samet created Vito from Woodbridge and it just was so characters. Yeah, you know, and Jeff Samet created Vito from Woodbridge

and it just was so good because it was such it was such a It was funny because it was so accurate. Well, because the point being is part of taking call-ins is like you want some you don't want like, hey, hey how about Auston Matthews tonight, eh?

Yes, Vito. How about Auston? Awesome, eh? You know, and. How about Austin? Awesome, eh? You know, and just, so, and that's where it was a great role that way. And it's funny, Jeff Samet, who is now doing some work on SiriusXM, Canada Talks, I think is the show, but he, like, he decided he wanted to go away

from being the funny guy, which I understand, it's hard. It's hard to be creative that way. But man, oh man, he was Vito, and him and Don had so many, and Don, you mentioned the Don Cherry. God, Don killed that way. He was Vito. Him and Don had so many. You mentioned the Don Cherry. Don killed that. He killed the Jerry Howarth. There's so many.

Vic Router. The one time we were at the Dueling Vicks and the one time we were at the NHL Awards when they used to be in Toronto. Don Landry had not met Gary Bettman. I introduced him. I said, he does the best Gary Bettman. So I introduced him. And I said, he does the best Gary Bettman I know.

He goes, okay, let's hear it. It was really surprised Landry. And I can understand that Landry goes, well, I'm not really good at doing it. Like people say, oh, do it now, do it now. So Landry did it. And it was really good, actually. Gary Bettman goes, not bad.

But anyway, it's true. Being put on the spot isn't what you want to be. And he did Sleepy Wilner, as I recall. Which Mike Wilner did not like because I asked him on the show. He did not like Sleepy Wilner. Well, you know, impersonation is, you know, like... And you know, one he backed off us was J.P.

Ricciardi. I thought, man, because you know what? They killed John Ferguson Jr. That was Sammits. And when I say killed, again, in a positive way, but it unfortunately, I think, resonated negatively with him where they got some feedback about J.P. Ricciardi and they kind of backed off him. You did mention Sam Mitchell a moment ago.

So Steve P. wants, he says, his recollection of Sam Mitchell's segments on The Morning Show, and if he remembers, this is about you, if he remembers when Sam Mitchell questioned his credentials and he answered with, actually, I was GM of the Leafs. So apparently Mitchell was dumbfounded. And, uh, this guy found that exchange interesting. What was it like, uh, when you talked to Sam Mitchell, uh, Smich? Yeah. Well, it's funny because, uh, like I'll say it candidly, you know, one thing of being in the business, I think I have a thicker skin than most people. Like me having been in the sports business.

Right. And, you know, constructively, I think, I think Don Landy would acknowledge that, you know, not as much for him.

And so it started this segment and whatever it was, the first or second segment with Sam Mitchell. And it just sucked. And he, and you know, and, and I think Don took things a little personally and whatever and um Jim LaBombard was the PR guy and I think we were

thinking of scrapping the segment and then we decided to give another try and then I remember Sam came oh I gotta give you a big hug Jim talk gotta give you a big you know like and and somewhere it just started working and evolving and um I know talking to assistant coaches they said you know, like, and, and somewhere it just started working and evolving. And, um, I know talking to assistant coaches, they said, you know what? Sam's never up that early in the morning. We listen. Cause we know you're getting them out of bed and, and look at Sam now media wise. And I, you know, I know we did a lot with Tim and Tim and Sid and that and other places,

but that's where he started. That's where that character started. And it was really neat to go and that's right the one time when he uh when he he gave crap and then he was stunned i remember paul beaston called in paul goes isn't he isn't he giving you crap because you don't know enough and he had no idea sam and then when he came in for an hour segment it was almost bad because it was too nice right you know and they're not bad but just it just it was the human side of him that way. So that was probably as good an insider

for a short period of time, for a short period of time, segment that we had. And now, of course, he's in the media now. He's on TSN all the time. Well, and then one morning at Sirius XM, did I mention Peter Burse? The odd time,

someone has to come in to do an early hit. And I think twice in the last three years since I've been there, it's Sam Mitchell. A lowly cab pulls up and he gets out at Liberty Street offices and Mike Lippas are up there and gets him set up on NBA radio for a hit. So we've had a chance to reminisce

and it's kind of fun after all these years. So let's talk about that now. So SiriusXM, tell us what you're doing on SiriusXM these days. Well, it came up a couple of years ago again. let's let's talk about that now so um serious xm tell us uh what you're doing on serious xm these days well it came up a couple years ago again good old nelson millman and um he hit me with about doing uh the morning show on hl network radio which is uh which is which i had done after i got fired from the fan about a year later cbc controlled hockey night in canada radio so for two years this was my lifeline to get me back and uh so he mentioned about doing this i was in my last year anyway i

was still doing stuff at the fan at that point so he goes well i'll check with scott moore and that about doing both and and everyone was cool because they tie in together and so it's great so when i do this show in the mornings with rob simpson the co-host of show stelic and simmer yeah it's it's great. So when I do this show in the mornings with Rob Simpson, the co-host of the show. Stellick and Simmer. Yeah. It's about 31 teams. Every team is equal. So no game is more important than any other game. It's a North American-based audience.

I think we probably have more American listeners just because I don't think they have as good hockey sports stations in the States like we do in Canada. And then when I'm the fan, it's Leafs. Leafs-centric. So it's a neat balance of them all. So it's worked out. You know, there's some quick turnarounds when there's a Leaf postgame show,

and I'm up at 4.30 in the morning again. I can imagine. And that, but, hey, you know, Mike, there's no middle ground. And you replaced, so Mike Ross, who is, he took over for Andy Frost. Yeah. Andy Frost, by the way, had a crazy long run at Q coming to an end very shortly. Yeah. No, I mean, hey, you know, I had, I think you've had these guys on, but one time, just

for a week, Jesse and Gene were, no, not Jesse, was it Jesse? No, no, let me get it. No, Humble and Fred. Yeah, I've had them on many times. Excuse me. So Humble and Fred were in doing, because I guess their studio was being, you know, getting some renovations done, so they used the Sirius XM studio. So it was really fun reminiscing just off air with those guys about the

grind and about like, I think Fred just kind of goes, he goes, man, I was 30. I was making tons of dough, kicking ass, you know,

now I'm 60 and we're doing fine, but you got to slug it out. You got to work, you got to work, you know, which is true, which is the nature of the business right now. And when he would,

between gigs, he really wanted that Leafs lunch gig with Bill Waters, I think. Fred? Yes. Well, when I started with the Leafs, Fred was the sports reporter for what station? Peter Gates, CFNY. Yeah, that's right.

Fred, you know, like that started. And Mike Stafford did news. Yeah, and Peter Marr covered the Leafs for CKO Radio, then went on, became voice, and voice of the Calgary Flames for a thousand years. Oh, that's crazy. You know, I, oh my God, I could, it would be effortless to do like an eight-hour show with you right now,

but who would listen to an eight-hour show? No, I'm okay for a bit here. But, well, I was going to play out here, but just, yeah. No, you know what? Okay. Only because we've hit two hours and six minutes okay well we can play it a bit but I want to

one other one tell me anything I love it so one of the neat things is because I mentioned about you know what's been fortunate there the launch of the fan you know in 92-93 and then let me get the year right Headline Sports so a lot of people from the fan went to

Headline Sports which became Elliot Friedman yeah which became the score so Elliot Friedman, Greg Sansoni and Brian Spear Tim McAuliffe wasn't at the fan but those guys went from the fan to Headline Sports and I get to go as kind of the old guy to do TV stuff so I was looking to do some tv

stuff and try to grow on tv because i'd always had this uneven tv stuff you know i i did some games for tv 11 where i was paul hendrick and i were the uh yeah host for a little bit and i and uh anyway and that taught me and other people i say man it's neat when you're in a real good role for yourself and then when you're not in a good role for myself. And that wasn't, I wasn't ready to be that host then, and I was green, and it didn't last very long. It was kind of bone they threw me. So it's called Headline Sports.

It launches. Tim McAuliffe and Sid, you know, Sid as well, as well, Sid Cicero, was on it. And Elliot, you mentioned. So, so many talented people in a short period of time. And Jory Middlestad was the host of this thing called The Front Page, which started. So, they had different rotating guests like Steve Simmons. I can't remember who else, but all kinds of people.

Wally Sotoni was there. I don't know, whatever. But just different guests. And one day I got a call and I came in to see Lee Herberman, who was the guy. So I get added to the list for the show. So then I get added more and more. I'm one of the guests. And then the first, this is when it launches in June. So the first Christmas party was a kick-ass Christmas party. It was fun. It was just youthful exuberance and that. And so Lee Herberman said something, and then I went up and just said,

Lee, I really appreciate it. It's been fun being involved. And he said something like, yeah, well, I wasn't in your corner, but you proved me wrong and whatever. So I walked over to Brian Spear, and I kind of go, Lee just said this. And he goes, oh, he goes, I'm a little surprised he'd say that. But he goes, actually, when we pitched your name, Lee wasn't big. He goes, ah, lunch bag let down.

I don't know. So he goes, do you remember you had that separate little interview with him? And I kind of go, oh, yeah. So that's what happened. So then that show died. And I sort of became their hockey guy for three years. So I was kind of the precursor to Pierre Lebrun, who then became their hockey guy and whatever. And then because Sportsnet was involved with the fan and Rodgers so I went over there and it was a much lesser role I have

I've always had with Sportsnet compared to that but that was again like a real good strong network which is now the score that I got to be a part of so it's it's just really neat there there's been so many places out there and so many people out there that I've been, you know, been fortunate to be involved. And now, you know, Sirius XM NHL Network as well is a different one. And the fan, you know, old faithful that I never, you know, I never really left. Well, I mean, I did get fired, but never really left. That's a textbook example of how you can leave gracefully without burning a bridge is you basically, because you were let go.

And actually I'm glad you're letting me go over time because now you give me a chance to go back to just say, Landry and Stellick, it was a great morning show on the Fan Five Night. It was a fun morning show. You had your sports, but you had your entertainment. It was just a fun morning show. I bet you don't go a day without somebody telling you that they miss you on the mornings.

Had a hot, my 14-year-old son, I kind of organized his hockey pool last night. I mean, they do it. And then order pizza. And the pizza delivery guy was like, oh, man. You know, you made my day and all that. I'm not trying to be conceited here. It's just nice to hear. No, no.

This is not the same thing. He talked the days of the big show and that and the morning show with Landry. And, you know, I was on one of like, who's the guy that now lives in Seattle? I don't know. He's probably a company. Oh, Jonah. Yeah. At Toronto Sports Media.

Yeah. So back in 2011, you know Dave Krixt at all? No. Good guy. Anyway, I did one of these, right? This is after I got fired. And then I didn't realize, like, I talked about the New Morning Show, and I said, well, it's not my cup of tea.

But I should have said, well, it wouldn't be, because I would still be on it, right? Right, right. But then I, yeah, it kind of went cup of tea, but I should have said, well, it wouldn't be because I would still be on it, right? Right, right. But then I, yeah, it kind of... And that was, was that... Andrew Crystal. So Crystal was next. I got it. Oh, I remember.

They had Jeff Lumby babysat for the summer, but it was only going to ever be for the summer. And then Crystal came in. Let's face it, a disaster. I'm going to call it. That's Mike talking. Crystal was a disaster. That was a bad idea from the get-go.

It was, and it was a life lesson for me as well about just, and my brother Bob said that you take your bleep sandwich and you get back. And that's where getting fired in New York helped, leaving the Leafs helped,

like all these things that... But what were they thinking? Gordon, you need to be a little diplomatic. I don't have to be diplomatic. What were they thinking? You were a successful, beloved morning show,

blowing up for Andrew Crystal. Like, to me, it's worse than Cordick for Cornell. Well, so I'll tell you, Mike, about it, that, you know, it's 2010, and we've really been kicking ass. Now, again, they're going through their annual review again. Oh, it's Sports Talk Radio, do it, whatever. And this is a few months before Keith Pelley comes on board,

and then Scott Moore comes on board, and then the dynamic changes again. But, you know, everyone experiences certain corporations and that, whatever. So Nelson leaves, Nelson Millman, and he goes on the TV side and then Don Collins comes in and he's the new sheriff in town. And I've been very fortunate that Nelson's been my guy before that, Alan Davis,. I've had people that championed me, just wonderful. Doug Ackers before. Sandy Sanderson, what a great guy, like a big boss. Just great guy. So now I'm not stupid. I can smell the climate's changed a bit. And Landry and I don't get to be a part of the 2010 Olympics,

which I always thought we'd go and do a kick-ass morning show from there. So that's kind of fine. And life goes on. And then all of a sudden, just rumblings. And again, part of our business has been, whether it was Chris Zeljkovic before, Rob Longley in The Sun, Zeljkovic in The Star, and then Bill Houston, Truth and Rumors. And then Bruce Dobing was having a run of it about stuff in the globe about what's going on. So a lot of stuff's just there, right?

And I have, I'm trying to get, so we get fired the end of June. So let's say it's early May. Let's say it's April. I don't know when it may be, but I have a lunch with Don Collins, who is our program director. And I, it's extremely positive. So I'm not, I'm like saying, okay, this is good. This is good. Um, again, I'm not stupid. I've been through all this. Now it's awkward because it seems like Landry's contracts up and they're going to do something. And I'm, so it's just the most ridiculous eight weeks I'm going on. And even once Don says to me, Landry, look, okay, you don't have to tell me, but if they said anything to you like about you taking over

the show and do whatever you know and i'm not advocating this i'm not just saying but it seemed like that was in the cards and i said to him i said seriously no no one had said anything but also i'm just thinking my situation is whatever so then black tuesday happens and um the bloodletting happens kind of like what brendan shanahan did the least on that sunday a couple years ago right so Black Tuesday happens and the bloodletting happens, kind of like what Brendan Shanahan did the Leafs on that Sunday a couple years ago.

Right. So, and meanwhile, it's weird. You look back on it, Mike, and a week or two earlier, there's a ratings party for all four stations. It's not just us.

There's CHFI, there's 680 News, and I think... KISS 92.5. I think KISS then, yeah. KISS has been that for a while. So, whatever. But, you know, we've been reading this Dolbig and stuff. There just was more

stuff going on. So anyway, we have a really good book as a station and we actually have a kick-ass book as a morning show. And so we're pumped about it now, but Colin's like speaking or whoever on behalf of all four program directors get up. I mean it is a Bob McCowan

loving. Okay, which is fine. I mean, it is a Bob McCowan love it. Okay, which is fine. I'm not used to that. That's fine. But whatever. So we're just kind of like, and it's weird. One or two of the higher-ups that aren't there anymore, it's not the same.

So a week or two later, and actually, I go in. No, actually, what was weird? I go in to see, Bruce Boudreaux calls me, good friend. He's coaching the Washington Capitals. And he's got, I'm going to emcee his golf tournament that year in the summer back in Toronto. And he goes, look, I can get a Sidney Crosby autographed jersey to go with an Ovechkin autographed jersey. And you can auction it off on the fan and blah, blah, blah. So I emailed Don Collins and he kind of goes, you know what, just leave this for the fall.

And I'm like, what? What? You know, So just weird stuff. So Black Tuesday, we do our show and we can see through, just Don comes and talks to whoever and then Jeff Samet says, oh, Don wants to see you guys after the show. And for the first time it hits me. Now as I talk about, I'm older than Landry. So I have to go to the washroom because that's it. You got to make more frequent trips.

So anyway, as a kid now, my going to the washroom saved us being fired together. So I'm literally gone for a couple of minutes. I guess people don't need to know all that. But anyway, and I walk into Don Collins' office and Landry is just leaving and we shake hands and it's obvious and he's got a folder in his hand yeah so i sit down and i'm kind of going oh man i said tough day like i'm thinking okay this is what i felt was likely going to happen particularly

based on my chat with him back in april and then i go tough day how he goes go, tough day, Heidi goes, yeah, real tough day. And then I see my envelope. And I got to say, in Don Collins' defense and everything, so I am leveled. I'm leveled. I'm leveled. I've just, you know, I've seen this song a couple of times in professional hockey. And I'm just like, I can't believe it.

Like you should expect in our business and whatever. And he does, now I got a year payout, so that's going to help me. I can't believe it. Like you should expect in our business and whatever. And he does, now I got a year payout, so that's going to help me, but it's just the world, like I just, like up till two months earlier, this was just unthinkable or whatever, two weeks earlier. So I will say he said to me, if the Leafs come back, you know, that's where we'd like to use you, if the Leafs come back and kind of thing. So whoever they are, but I'll include him, they were true to their word, you know, later on.

I still stayed on board a little bit that way, but it's a weird feeling, your pass card being deactivated and your email and all that kind of stuff, how things work nowadays. But again, then because all of a, Keith Pelley came and Scott Moore came and just the whole climate changed again. And it was very pro sports. And, and I did talk to one of the executives who's no longer there. And I give him, I give him credit for, um, it was Chuck McCoy who, uh, I give him credit for wanting to see me after, cause I'd mentioned to someone about that, you know, I felt, you know, Chuck had given me the snub at the thing. And, and anyway, then he, so we had a positive meeting,

but he just said, he started telling me, no, um, sports radio can't, can't do it anymore. The money was, and I'd heard this twice other times. And sure enough, three weeks later, they changed their song again. So anyway, that's what, that's what happened back then. And, uh, and then, then I had, you know, you gotta re you gotta rebrand. I hate to say it. You gotta rebrand yourself. I almost had to get my hockey brand back again. And that's where a year out of it and slugging it out. I get the lifeline from Joel Darling at CBC to do some CBC work, but hockey night in Canada radio. And that was absolutely my lifeline. And, and the other quickie just was yeah um so before i get the

lifeline from cbc so like that's in 2011 a year later like so 2010 i'm out of work in june and putzing around you're trying to doing things picking up things getting paid and then of all things what a break tsn radio starting what a break and collins is on top of me have you signed have you signed with tsn radio and i couldn't get a freaking offer i could not get a freaking offer you know i i think they they and actually dave cadeau has said to me now he goes by the way i wasn't among those who said it we didn't want fan people on tsm when we launched but and collins was saying if you get an offer, we'll match it. I'm like, geez, why don't you just give me an offer, right, to come back?

Or just invent one. Well, no, you know what? Because I know guys that have played that game. I know when it backfires, it backfires. So anyway, so be it. And, you know, hey, shame on you, TSM Radio, as far as I'm concerned. Not knocking people that are on there, but I just thought, you know, as far as a show back then,

particularly the climate back then, I would have been good somewhere and I needed the work back then. I never understood why when TSN's coming in, second in, if there's a heritage, a big sports radio station already here,

to me, you need to bring in some personalities that the sports media, sports radio people in Toronto are familiar with. Like to me, it makes all the sense in the world to poach somebody or to get a gourd stalact or somebody that, like,

I don't understand why they didn't do more of that. Well, and I'm not saying I'm the be all and end all, but at that point, Andrew Crystal's run had already ended in the morning. So whatever, and so I'm not, so I just mean at some point, anyway, so be it. But I mean, I really needed like, so that was it.

And then it ends up, but it's funny life works funny and I get to go in a different direction and and the C and CBC for probably about two years and hockey night in Canada radio because that's what I've got me back my hockey brand and it's just funny how things work out well Gord I gotta say I am delighted

that things are working out because you're one of the it's true because now they met you I can say this with authority that you're you're one of the, it's true because now that I met you, I can say this with authority that you're, you're one of the good guys. This was, this was two hours and 20 minutes and it was fantastic. Like,

I hope you, hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. I just came for the beer. Yeah. No. Yeah. You know, like I said,

I enjoy your stuff and, uh, I love the people you grab because it's very, there's a, it's an interesting business and, I really appreciate you having me today. And maybe my guy will be playing baseball in one of these parks around here in the summer too.

Who knows? Well, let me know. I'll come over with some beer. Okay. Sounds good. I can get you more. And that brings us to the end of our 324th show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Gord, are you at Gord Stelic? At Gord Stelic, yes. Smart. You got your own name. That's great. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. And Paytm is at Paytm Canada. And Camp Tournesol, at Camp Tournesol. See you all next week. Bye.