Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Graham Stairs: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1704

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

In this 1704th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Graham Stairs about his role in launching the careers of Meryn Cadell, Barenaked Ladies, the Rheostatics, Martha and the Muffins and others. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

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Sponsored by Fusion Corp Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today making his Toronto mic debut, it's Graham Stairs. Welcome Graham. Thanks. Where do you call home? I'm living in Toronto. You're living in Toronto? Okay, okay, that's uh, that's that's really close. Okay, okay, Graham, sorry. I

thought maybe you were an out-of-towner who was visiting Toronto, but Toronto is your home. Well, you could say the Northeast is out of town, but no, I'm from Toronto. Well, originally I was from Halifax, but I moved up to Toronto in 1973. Can I ask you about a Halifax resident who also moved here and then moved back and he's been on this program and he's passed away. And I know, you know, this guy, because I saw on

one of the Intrepid Records compilations, one of his songs appeared, but I am referring to the man I know best as Hal Harbour. Yes. So, Doug Barron's his real name. How did you know Doug, aka Hal Harbour? Well, originally I met him, I believe, he moved to Halifax and he kept bombarding me with his music because he was kind of a poet. He lived or at least occupied St. Lawrence Beach. And like he liked to surf, he liked to write poetry, he loved to

surf, to make electronic music and so we just kept in touch and I guess at one point he reached out to me with this band that he was managing called Sandbox and yeah and you know he wasn't cut out for the management game, but, uh, he did have good taste in music and, uh, uh, I flew down to Halifax, saw, uh, Sandbox perform live and I basically signed them, uh, and that was with the second label that I worked for.

What label was that? Uh, it was called latitude records. That was a joint venture with EMI. For that label I had signed Davenett Doyle and then Sandbox and then another group called Boomy Airplanes which later became the Guthrie's. And of course Sandbox may be most famous today because a member of the trailer park boys was in the band. Yeah, Mike Smith. Yeah, that was a interesting situation because when we came to shoot the video for the first single and I had produced that curious. Yes, I had produced a hit that he has.

It was I produced that album under my pseudonym of William O'Guru and And it was funny because at the East Coast Music Awards they announced this record produced by William O'Guru So we all had a laugh at that. But anyways for the first video that we shot for curious You know Mike had had shoulder-length hair and he turned up at the video shoot with his skull completely shaved and he looked like a convict. Bubbles. Okay so so many places I want to go here but one is there's a compilation from Intrepid Records and I want to get the name right hold on here even though you could probably just tell me but I will tell you it's called Indie Can 90 a

compilation of Canadian new music so you were at Intrepid Records when this was released in 1990 am I right yeah we actually released well we actually put together several of those and and basically what that was was Stuart Ravenhill who was the owner of the company or the original owner of the company, he and I got the gig to promote Canadian music at South by Southwest and the music seminar and so we decided we got some funding I think from Factor or somebody to put together these compilation albums and try to highlight up and coming Canadian bands.

There's a song on that compilation called Red Shirt by Stunt Chimps for Burgess Meredith. And that was the Hell Harbor band. Yeah, yeah, no, that was. And yeah, no, we had a really good relationship. I mean, aside from sandbox, he also turned me on to Sarah Craig, who was a, a really cool artist and I really tried hard to sign her to Intrepid. And she, uh, in my opinion, mistakenly signed with Attic records. in my opinion mistakenly signed with Attic Records. And, but how, I'm not sure whether I introduced him

to Sarah or the other way around, but anyways, he ended up doing a remix for one of her tracks. And so that kind of continued the relationship. And also at Intrepid, I did the tribute albums to Bruce Colburn and to Joni Mitchell and on the Joni Mitchell album Hal put together, I forget what he called himself, but anyway he put together a version of a Joni Mitchell song with a singer from Stranger Than Fiction who was another act that I had signed to interrupt it. Okay we're gonna get back to the Bruce Colburn tribute

album as you can probably imagine and I know we jumped right into it I'm like okay I wanted to jump right into it and you said Halifax and I thought of Hal Harbor but I... by the way East Coast Music Awards again all over the place but East Coast Music Awards the guys from Sloan tell me they never won a single East Coast Music Award. Is that even possible? Like, here I am sitting in Toronto with you, but I can't even imagine not a single East Coast Music Award won by Sloan. Well, I mean, these things are unexplainable.

That sounds like a mistake. What do I know though? Right? Well, you know, in some ways Maybe you you wear something like that as a badge of honor, right? Right. Yeah, maybe and Sarah craig who I know well because I I used to collect those new music search cds at cfny We put together I think they called it discovery to disc and there was absolutely a sarah craig Song on one of the ones I used. I think the 93 one with Head they end up winning this thing and Hayden's on there and lowest of the low but yeah I know Sarah Craig she was great. Yeah she was a great performer you know I just it's not that Attic wasn't a good label I just

think Intrepid would have been better for her as an artist and I think we would have developed her more. Okay, so we're going to get you to Intrepid here, but I'm going to tell you a small world story now that I brought up Sloan, which is they have this murder records garage sale every year and I attended it on Saturday. So, yeah, so not yeah, this most recent Saturday is only a few days ago. And I'm at this thing. And it's the usual suspects like the members of Sloan. Mo Berg is there. But then surprising to me, because I actually didn't know he was in town, I bump into Stephen Page. And it was great, you know, we had a great chat and you know, he thanked me for having the conversation with Mark Nathan,

somebody very near and dear to Stephen Page's heart. We're going to talk more about Mark in a moment. But I brought up your name and I said, Oh, do you know the name Graham Stairs? Of course he knows the name Graham Stairs. He starts telling me about Intrepid Records and he starts talking about Marine Caddell, blah, blah, blah. We're going to dive into all of this right now. But I thought it was just a funny small world story that I'm chatting up with Stephen Page

about you on Saturday. Well, I mean, at the time, you know, the Toronto music scene was a fairly small scene in the sense that there was all this kind of corporate music that was being done by the majors and there was a whole other scene happening in Toronto that the majors were either ignoring or pretending it wasn't there. And I had, I mean, Bruce, or sorry, Stuart Ravenhill had been Bruce Coburn's tour manager. So, and people were making tribute albums around that time. So he suggested Bruce.

And I thought that was a great idea. And he suggested that I go over to meet Bernie Finkelstein, who was Bruce's manager and record label owner, to get all the Bruce Coburn CDs. And cause you know, I was familiar with Bruce obviously, but I wanted to dig as deep as I could. You knew the radio hits. Yeah.

And so I went over there and I'm sure Bernie thought that I was just scamming him to get as many Bruce Coburn CDs as possible. But then when I Started playing him some rough mixes from the studio You know, he realized that this was something that was really cool and and that would be and Bruce had never had anything like this before I feel like while you talk about it maybe in the background if you don't mind I'm just gonna let a certain song maybe brew beneath us here because I know where this story's going and I did want to capture this full story.

Let's listen for a moment and then we'll get back to you. Don't the hours go shorter as the days go by? We never get to stop and open our eyes One minute you're waiting for the sky to fall And next you're dazzled by the beauty of it all. Lovers in a dangerous time. Lovers in a dangerous time. There's Stephen right there. Okay, Graham, pick up your story. I want every detail of Lovers in a Dangerous Time and this Bruce Colburn compilation. Well, the interesting thing is they had a manager at the time, Nigel Bast, turned out to be a prick, but at the time we had a good relationship.

We had done a showcase at South by Southwest, one of the first Canadian showcases at South by Southwest. And Berenet ladies weren't that well known at the time so they went on first and they just blew everybody away and then the last band that was supposed to play was called Junior Gone Wild but they didn't get across the border so I asked the Barenaked Ladies if they would come back and play another set and they said sure and so I announced to the people that the Barenaked Ladies were going to play again. Everybody in the audience stayed through the whole evening just so they could see the Barenaked Ladies again. So I knew they had something and

what I said to them is you know like a lot of people in the industry think you're a novelty act, you're not a novel, you're great musicians, you're great singers, let's pick a song that industry think you're a novelty act. You're not a novel. You're great musicians, you're great singers. Let's pick a song that I think you could do really well and I think if you do it well you're gonna get some airplay and that's a segue into how we got the airplay in a second. So every other act that was on that album we had a day in the studio and a day to mix but because they were playing so much they could only give me eight hours that was it. So what you're listening to right now that's basically

them playing live off the floor. The only overdubs in that whole song is Ed didn't like his harmonies in the bed track so he re-sang them and Jim the bass player I said like there was a kind of like a bridge section that felt empty to me so I suggest that he try bowing the standup bass and play almost like a cello part which he did so those are the only overdubs on the whole thing Ed's harmonies and and Jim's overdub stand-up bass that vocal by Stephen Page is live off the floor probably if not the first take it was the second take. Let me let them take us home here.

Now I've had in fact, we're going to get back to Mark Nathan in a moment. I want to pay proper tribute to Mark, but I've had Stephen Page on the show a couple of times and he talks about how, you know, much music needed a video, but there were no bare naked ladies videos, but they had a video for this Bruce Colburn cover and it was like perfect timing to help them, you know, get airplay on much music. Well, there was a lot of fortuitous circumstances around that song. First of all, we did make the video for that and if you see in the video there's a scene where there's some people playing street hockey and somebody yells car. Well the people playing hockey were the rheostatics and the skydiggers. So we were kind of holding the single, holding the single, holding the single, and then fortuitously, they may not have thought so at the time, but fortuitously they got banned from performing

at New Year's Eve. Barbara Hall. Yes, at City Hall. So we released a single, I think just before Christmas break and the video too and much music added it right away and because they didn't change their programming through the whole Christmas break, we got like two weeks of basically free exposure. Now the other thing that's interesting about this single is of course by now everybody is like starting to think okay we got to sign the Barenake ladies. So one

of my mentors and one of my first mentors was Dean Cameron who had signed my band Minutes from Downtown to Capitol Records and I said to Dean I said look I can't afford to take this I can't afford to take this, we can't afford to take this single to radio. But if EMI works it, and you get make it a hit, then maybe Bare Naked Ladies will sign with you. So they did work it, it was a hit. And of course, Bare Naked Ladies did not sign with EMI. But, know, Dean was happy, you know, he was happy because we were selling records. Right, okay. Now you see, as I talk to you, I realize you're right in the mix of all of this because, you

know, we opened with Hal Harbour talk and I know Hal Harbour was a massive Bare Naked Ladies champion on CFNY 102.1 the edge now Like he was the music guy there and really pushing hard with that the yellow tape Yeah, so it all kind of connects because we're gonna talk mark Nathan in a moment before we talk about some other artists that were Mentioned by mark when he was on Toronto mic, but it's really All connected man. Well, we were all you know, we were happy to promote them. And obviously we did well out of the whole deal. But we also, in addition, taking them South by Southwest to showcase,

we also took them to New York to the new music seminar to play the Canadian showcase there. And that's where Yoko Sean Lennon, is that right? Sean Lennon is there. Sean Lennon and Yoko and Yoko are there. And they played it be my Yoko Ono. Right. I remember I remember talking about that with Stephen in the audience.

It was at the limelight club. Wow. Okay, so what took you so long? Okay. So where will well, here's what we'll do. I'll let the listenership know that the late Mark Nathan, Sally passed away earlier this year. Was it earlier this year? It's all a blur to me now. My goodness gracious. Okay. So Mark Nathan was on Toronto mic for episode 1384. And I'll just read what I wrote at the time. I wrote, in this 1384th episode of Toronto Mic'd, a Toronto microcast, I was trying a new thing of Mark Nathan where we had shorter,

but then I realized I don't like shorter, so I gave up on them. I spoke of Mark Nathan about Con-Can, Marin Caddell, who will come up again with you in a moment introducing the bare naked ladies to see more Stein and more so can you maybe share with me if you don't mind your relationship with Mark any thoughts about Mark and then your role in this story about see this story about Mark Nathan introducing bare naked ladies to see more Stein where they

would sign with Sire Records. Well I guess Mark and I probably met around the time I had signed Merrin, well after I'd signed Merrin Condell. We made that Angel Food for Thought record and you know, Marin was essentially a spoken word artist, but she had elements of music, uh, weaved in and around her spoken words. And there was one particular spoken word passage called the sweater that I really liked. And I thought, you know, Marin, if you put music to that song,

I think it could be really cool. Right, so time out. Okay, so when you first hear the sweater, it's just spoken word by Marin Cadell. Yes. Marin Cadell. And it's your idea if we can get some kind of a groovy backing track, you know, maybe this could be a song. Yeah, absolutely. But how did you meet Marin Kadel? How did you know of him? It's interesting. I don't actually remember how I, you know,

I think maybe she had brought some tracks into us because I'm not sure that I started playing live first. I'm pretty sure like a lot of people at that time, we had a loft down on in Liberty Village when it wasn't quite as as gentrified as it is now. And people would just show up and with music or what have you and and Stewart at the time said, you know because I had signed the rheostatics before that and I Was getting ready to sign another act and he said well you can't I had proposed two acts one was Marin And one was another who I won't won't say And I had to choose between the two he says we can't afford to do both choose one. So I chose Marin and

so as I said, I I heard this spoken word piece and She had a friend who was a film composer named Tom third who I just saw recently at a Christmas party, but anyways Tom Third, who I just saw recently at a Christmas party. But anyways, he wrote this really cool music to it. And that song in the video became an unlikely top 40 hit in Canada. Okay, so I'm gonna play some of the sweater. And with Marin, it's important to just, so when you knew Marin was using Marin was I using the pronouns she her Yes, and now uses the pronouns he him so sometimes when you're speaking in the past

You you may say her but now it's it's him and just clarifying for the listenership what's happening there Okay So i'm going to play the sweater and we got to pick it up there And I love how and then I do have some real sadics question. I have a lot of ground I got to cover with you, but let's listen to this. Girls. I know you will understand this and feel the intrinsic and incredible emotion. You have just pulled over your head the worn, warm sweater belonging to a boy.

Now you haven't had a passionate kissing session or anything, but you got to go on a camping trip with him and eight other people from school. And you practically slept together, your sleeping bag right next to his. And you woke in the night to watch him as he slept, but you couldn't see anything because it was dark, so you just lay there and listened to his breathing and wondered if your heart might burst. The sweater has that slightly goat-like smell which all teenage boys possess, and that smell will lovingly transfer to all your other clones. If you get to keep it for a few days you can sleep with it, but don't let your mom see

because she'll say, what is that filthy thing and who does it belong besides the trash man? So you have to keep it under the covers with you If you kind of lie it beside you or wrap it around your waist or touch it on your legs or whatever that's your business Now if the sweater has like reindeer on it or is a funny color like yellow I'm sorry you can't get away with a sweater like that. Look for brown or gray or blue anything other than that and you know you're dealing with someone who's different and can't get away with a sweater like that. Look for brown or gray or blue. Anything other than that and you know you're dealing with someone who's different. And different is not what you're looking for. You're looking for those teenage

L-Pines key chiseled features and that sort of blank look. Graham, firstly your instinct to add a backing track to this spoken word performance was very wise. It really does add to this song. I'm thinking of Suzanne Vega, right? Like it's like, oh, there's this song, but yeah, this Tom Third composition in the background really makes this sing. Yeah, I haven't heard it for a long, long time.

I forgot how good it is. Yeah, it was everywhere too. Sort of like you know Barenaked Ladies and their cover of Lovers in a Dangerous Time it just maybe because I was consuming a lot of much music at the time and it just seemed to be on high rotation so please okay so you you are actually now maybe you pick up the story again so you had this idea Tom Third composes some music. Maren Kaddell does his spoken word over top of the Tom Third composition.

And then what? Well he actually composed the music to her spoken word thing. So her thing was already done. Right. The spoken word was done and this music comes from Tom Third upon your suggestion. Right. And so we released it and it became a hit in Canada. And I think that's where Mark first heard it. Cause he was like a, he was a radio guy and he liked quirky hit songs. And, but what happened was I decided to take Maren down to the music seminar and showcase her there and the showcase went okay. But they also had this thing called the independent music form or something like that. So basically what it was, was independent labels from all over the world would come to the music seminar and each company would have like five minutes to, you could get up and speak, you could play a couple of songs, you could have somebody play an acoustic guitar. I just played the video for the sweater and it got a very strong reaction. And as, and this is my memory, but as I'm heading

back to my seat after playing the video, Seymour Stein stands up, walks over to me, shakes my hand and says, you have a deal. And I said, uh, uh, don't you want to see your live? Uh, don't you want to hear the rest of the record? He said, I've, I've you want to see your live? Don't you want to hear the rest of the record? He said, I've seen, I've heard enough, you know?

And so when I got back to Toronto, I said to Stuart, hey, you know, Seymour Stein wants to sign Maron. And so that's when, uh, Mark really got involved and, uh, Seymour, Mark and Seymour's lawyer flew up to Toronto, took me, Stuart and Marin out, out to dinner. And you know, he was Seymour as he's apt to do, he was, Seymour, as

he's apt to do, he was singing old 50 songs and he and Mark were having a great time. And anyway, I mean, they offered us a 80,000 US advance and, uh, uh, you know, at certain point in the evening, Mark said, I think you guys should go home now. Things are going to get weird. So, uh, we said, okay.

And, uh, so the next day I come into the office and Stuart lifts up his desk blotter, reaches underneath, pulls out Marin's contract and says, I guess we should get her to sign this. And I'm going, what? You haven't got her to sign the contract and For better or worse Marin decided to sign directly to to to Sire records and And took the $80,000 advance from Seymour and

and took the $80,000 advance from Seymour. And recorded Angel Food for Thought for the label. No, no, we had already. You and you. You read. We already recorded it. Right. What she ended up doing was recording a second album, which I forget because I wasn't involved. But anyway, she recorded the second album, which I think she produced herself, or at the very least,&R herself. And unfortunately it wasn't,

it didn't do as well as the first record. Well, I have, I'll tell the listenership and you too Graham that I've had communication with Marin after the Mark Nathan episode dropped Marin listened and as you did and Stephen Page and others were very interested in this this conversation, but Marin has Committed to visiting the basement. We're just When when she when when he's up to it and it'll be it's imminent, but maybe not necessarily next week But this is going to happen and then we'll get the kind of the the story of what exactly happened there

But through this experience you become friends with Mark Nathan right? Yep and what the next kind of story was when I did the Bruce Coburn tribute record there was these this group called B-Fund which was basically this group called B-Fun, which was basically two brothers and a friend. And they had done this really cool kind of R&B-ish version of Wondering Where the Lions Are. And I really liked them both as people and as artists. And so did Mark and I mean because I had had we had signed National Velvet to EMI in the States I knew this black A&R guy there the only black A&R guy I knew and he had moved over to

Arista Records with with Clive Davis so when B when Be Fun played me some of their original music and there was one song I think was called Heaven or something like that but I thought it was a hit song. I just thought it was just a really cool hit song and so I sent it to this A&R guy in the US. He loved it. He played it for Clive Davis. Clive Davis loved it. But at the time, Clive had, probably quite rightly, a five single rule. So he wouldn't sign anybody unless he heard five singles. So they gave us some demo money and be fun, record it and record it and record it.

And unfortunately, for at least as far as Arista goes, they never came up with those other hit singles. But Mark, I think was doing promotion or he's working with modern records at the time. And he suggested that if they would record this Todd Runrun song, that they could get signed to modern records. And unfortunately the guys didn't wanna do that. And so it kind of all went away. But Mark and I remained friends and kept in touch.

I know Mark was rather unwell near the end of his life. When he was on my show, he told me a list of things wrong with him and I was surprised he was still able to record with me. He said, I'm on dialysis, this is going on, that's going on. So it wasn't, I take it it wasn't a great shock to find out he had passed, but from all accounts he was kind of a larger than life character and I'm wondering, do you miss Mark Nathan? Of course, I mean I miss all characters. I think that's something that's really missing in today's music business without sounding like an old fart. But, you know, there were a lot of characters and what I call music people. And, you know, like Dean Cameron was one, Bernie Finkelstein was certainly another. You know, there were a lot of people like that who, who really invested in Canadian music both emotionally and financially and

I just Don't see those kind of characters around anymore Well, we got to capture these stories from the survivors Shout out to Bernie who's an FOTM. He's been down here still with us. So Bernie Finkelstein, long may you run here. Well, there's a funny story about that. You know, like when Bruce Coburn and Bernie first got together, they didn't have a contract and they still don't have a contract. So the joke, running joke between the two of them is they don't know how to stop because there's nothing written down on paper So they just keep going and he's in his

Bruce is in his 80s now. He just turned 80. Well, you have something common. Yeah, just turned 80 Because you're both because today you're rocking a cane you fell and you needed a cane now And when I saw Bruce at the Massey Hall a couple years back, he had the double cane going on Yeah, no, I was at that show. Yeah. I mean, I thought when he walked onto stage, I went, Oh, but he w it was probably one of the best shows I've seen him do. You know, he was, he's like, he has very high standards. So he's not, if he feels he can't perform to the standard that he has, he'll stop. But so far he's still performing at a very high standard.

I got a bunch of questions for you here, Graham. One is maybe just to get to know you a little better. How do you end up at Intrepid Records? You were there, I guess you got there in 1988. It's like, so who are you when you, how did you end up doing that? This is like your first A&R gig, right? Yeah. Well, how that happened was I was a musician before that and I had a band called

Minutes from Downtown that Dean signed to Capitol Records. And we put out one record and we toured across Canada and then we came back and we made some more demos for a second record but we weren't really the tour I think Robert Fripp once said, touring will either pull you together or tear you apart. And in our case, it's kind of tore us apart. And Dean said to me, you got good ears, you should be an A&R person. And I said, okay, well, give me a job. And he said, well, I can't give you a job right now,

but I just did this joint venture deal with this ex-pat, Britt, Stuart Ravenhill, call him. So I called him. He said no. And so I called him every week for seven weeks. He kept saying no. And then on the seventh week, he asked me, do I have a driver's license? I said, yes, of course I have a driver's license.

Great. me, do I have a driver's license? I said yes, of course I have a driver's license. Great, because I just got busted for driving under the influence and I need somebody to drive me around. And so I used that to kind of get my foot in the door and then like I would start sharing music with Stuart and eventually he heard something that he liked that I had brought to him and he said, okay, you can sign that act and that act was the real statics. So let's talk a little bit about the real statics then. So you signed the real statics. Like what did you what did you bring to Stuart that you liked that Intrepid would sign the real statics? that Intrepid would sign the Reostatics? Well, I actually met the Reostatics

when they were still a trio of high school students. And they're Tobacco, right? Yes, that's right. And they'd done their own version of My Generation by The Who. And it was kind of like a, it sounded like talking heads. I mean they had obviously not really arrived at their own sound yet and Gary Topp had

introduced me to them and they had opened for my then band Popular Spies and so you know years later when I'm doing A&R Intrepid, as I said, people would just walk in and they had made a record called Whale Music. No, sorry, not Whale Music, the one before that. This is the one with the Ballad of Wendell Clark on it, right? Here, you keep telling the story and I'll get the facts. Melville, the Melville album. Yeah, so they brought in the Melville album, I really liked it. And we licensed it from them. And we got a fair amount of attention. And Jeff Kulowick, who was working at Warner Chapel Music, signed with for publishing.

So the two of us kind of doubled up and we started hitting as many American A&R people as we possibly could. And we got a fair amount of traction, but we didn't quite get all the way. So then it came time to record their second album for us, their third album. Because I think their first album was called Greatest Hits. No, that's correct. You're absolutely correct. It was called Greatest Hits. No, that's correct. You're absolutely correct. It was called Greatest Hits.

And so they brought in 52 demos for whale music. And I said, well, obviously we can't record 52 songs, so we have to narrow it down. So this was the era of the CD. So everybody was wanting to stuff as many songs on as possible, which I don't always think is a good idea. But in their case, it worked because they had three very strong songwriters, and they all brought in, like I said, all these songs. So we and they had Michael Philip Voivode as a producer. So they came in with a song list and I went nope. I said there's not enough Martin songs. You got to get put some more Martin Thiele songs on there. So they came back with another list and I said yeah that sounds like it's gonna make a great record. I remember when Jeff Merrick was here he just demanded I play

Dope Fiends and Booze Hounds. And their drummer Dave he wanted to do a duet with Neil Peart from Rush and I said well I don't know if we can make that happen, but I'll try so I phoned them up and You know, they said oh well they're out on tour but I will get the message to them and we'll let you know and Peggy Giacconi being the queen of effing everything She phoned me back a little while later and said, Neil's into it, he's gonna be here in Toronto for this one day and that's your day so you got to make it work. So they came in, they did this drum duet and

Neil actually brought in pizza so that everybody had something to eat. By the way, you can swear on this program. Oh, okay. And then they also, uh, for actually, for another cute story for the previous album, they had recorded a version of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot. And you know, God bless them. You know, Gordon could be a bit of a curmudgeon at times, I've heard and seen. Anyways, I phoned up his manager and said,

you know, the real statics have recorded the record of the Edmunds Fitzgerald. That song was sacred to Gordon. Like he didn't let anybody cut it. And so I talked to his manager at the time. I said, this is, they had recorded it. And, you know, we'd like to get your permission. And he said, look, I'm not even going to tell Gordon, just go ahead and do it. Well, I know from Badini being over here a couple of times that

Gordon Lightfoot did not like that cover of the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Yep. But his manager basically gave his blessing so that wasn't really anything he could do. Well, he could really do anyway, because once a song has been recorded, anybody can cut it. Right, you just gotta give them songwriting credits or whatever, unless you're Prince.

Well, I remember this with Creep. I remember there was a story, I guess Prince covered Creep at at a festival like by Radiohead and Prince demanded it be removed from YouTube, but Radiohead said it's our song. Like we don't want it removed. It was like this is like who gets the right like if you're if you're singing someone else's song you know can you make you have it removed if you don't own the song? It's just an interesting case I remember. a song, you know, can you make you have it removed if you don't own the song?

It's just an interesting case. I remember. Hey, here's a fun fact for the bare naked ladies heads. That means you, Brian Dunn, whale music. There's a chorus credited as Scarborough Naked Youth Choir. And that, of course, was the bare naked ladies. So everything connects in this story is what I'm telling you. Yeah. So, so as I was saying, you know, like Jeff Kulowick and I kind of double teamed on, on that record. And we took them down once again to New Music Seminar to showcase,

and they played a gig at a club called Tramps. And, uh, Badini I remember getting up on the bar and doing not a Chuck Berry duck walk, but something as close to that as he could possibly get. And there were about 20 A&R people in the club. So I knew we were gonna come out of there with something. And there was particularly one guy, Mitch Brody,

who was working at Electra Records at the time. He was like fanatic. He really wanted to sign them. Unfortunately, his boss would not let him. But the interesting story is there was this pack of young A&R people in LA that would all go around and see acts together because none of them wanted to miss the next big thing.

So they figured the best way to defend against that was if they all went together. So and then they would all go back to the respect of bosses and then say, hey, you know, this is something you should look at. So because his boss, who happened to be Bob Dylan's girlfriend at the time, said no, he passed it on to his friend who was working for Gary Gersh over at Geffen Records. And so I got this call saying, have you signed yet with anybody?

And I said, no, not yet. Said, don't sign with anybody. Gary's going to fly up. put together a show for them, him, and he'll, he'll come up and see them. So I put together a show at ultrasound on Queen street and Gary came up, he saw them and, uh, he said, uh, you, you got a deal, you know, it was basically almost like the Seymour thing, except he had actually seen the Reostatics live.

So I went out for dinner and I was like, said, uh, you, you got a deal, you know, it was basically almost like the Seymour thing, except he had actually seen the Reostatics live. So I went out for dinner after the show with him and his wife. And he said, uh, as soon as I get back, I'm going to tell my boss and we'll send you a contract. And he did exactly that. So then this one, we come back to Nigel Best. Nigel Best phones me up and says

hey I'm the new manager for the Reostatics because they hadn't had a manager up until that time and I and I had always as I said had gotten along with Nigel and we had success obviously with the B-Naked Ladies. And I said, okay, great. You know, I've got some good news. I just got off the phone with Gary Gersh's boss at Geffen and they want to sign the rheostatics. And he said, well, I'm gonna review everything, I'll get back to you.

And I said, what? And because Nigel had signed Bare Naked Ladies to Sire, he really wanted to sign them to Sire, which he eventually did. I didn't think that was the right move. And you can tell Badini that. Well, I'm going to pull this clip for Badini he'll be back. Okay because you know and I don't know how much Nigel told the band at the time because at that point he was getting he was he put himself in between us and and and the band but you know in as much as I love Seymour and I love Sire Records, I think at that point he had signed something like nine Canadian acts.

He was like an art collector. He just wanted to collect more and more Canadian bands. He had the Waltons, he had Acid Test, he had all these Canadian bands signed. And obviously, uh, Katie Lang. Not to mention Katie Lang. Absolutely. Whereas, you know, at the time Geffen had a

smaller roster of acts and Gary Gersh was like at the height of his success. He had signed Nirvana who had sold 13 million records. So I hear. He had signed Counting Crows who had signed 4 million records. So I hear he had signed Counting Crows, who had signed 4 million records. And he told me at suppertime that because Canadian A&R people didn't get points on

records, American A&R people definitely got points on records. And he used the money that he got from points on those two records and bought himself a Malibu beach house. So he had lots of clout. So I think personally that Geffen would have been a better fit for the rheostatics. I mean maybe being on a major label in the US wasn't right for them anyway, but I think Geffen could have taken them further than Sire was. Because about six months or nine months later,

I ran into Howie Klein, who was the guy who took all the acts that Seymour signed and tried to promote and market them. And I ran into him at South By and I said, so how the read-a-statics doing? And he said, well, we have 25 active artists right now and they're priority number 25. And so, you know.

Yeah, should have gone with Geffen. Well, who's to say, but. In your opinion. In my opinion, yes. And, you know, I love that band and I don't, as I said, I don't know how much, information Nigel was conveying to them. I would have liked to have talked to them personally and explained to them why I thought Geffen would have been a better deal.

And also at that point, Chip Southerland, who's a lawyer from, uh, Halifax and he was also David Doyle's lawyer and he got involved and he, he just said, look, Graham, this is not going to happen. They're going to, they want to sign to sire records. So, uh, we'll buy you out. And they did. They, uh, I mean, obviously they used sire records so we'll buy you out and they did they I mean obviously they used sire's money but they they bought uh you know the real stacks bought themselves out of the contract with intrepid you mentioned acid test the couple from acid test has been over a couple times but

i just want to shout out the song mr skin which, which I loved very, very much. Okay. And that was on highway 61. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It was perfect. Yeah. So we're going to, because I realized I said an hour, I'm going to go over an hour. Is that okay? First of all, if I go over a little bit, it's okay for me. Another cute story about acid test. Yeah. The keyboard player in my band, uh, Van Velder, what's his name? Well, no, the keyboard player in my band. Uh, minutes from Van Velder. What? No, what's his name?

Well, no, the key, the keyboard player and acid test. I think it was the keyboard player. He was the nephew of the keyboard player in minutes from downtown. It's such a small world, especially the Canadian musical landscape. Okay. And I love the fun fact that the Waltons were scientists sire, which I wasn't sure I had like like my tractor.

I love that. I had rain song. So big, big hit. So to recap real quick here, Intrepid. OK, so you're at Intrepid. We talked about lovers in a dangerous time, which was a big hit in this country, a big much music jam as well.

So lovers in a dangerous time. You signed the real Statics, National Velvet, Marin Kadel and there's a band that's been over I want to ask you about in a moment but before I say that name, you co-managed Chalk Circle, is that right? That's correct. Did you ever hear my Chris Tate story? I can tell you some Chris Tate stories. Okay, let's do it 90 minutes on Chris Tate from Chalk Circle. We're still good friends. He seems like a very well he's been down

here I think he's a very nice man. Yes and I'm still friends with Tim Welch who was the guitar player for National Velvet who a lot of people don't know co-wrote Davenett Doyle's first single. I like Davenett too. There's a name I want to ask you in the Reostatics before I move off of them, but I just wondered if you have had any communication lately with Martin Tiele. I just noticed that when there's Reostatics stuff going on, he doesn't seem to be a part of it. And I just worry about the guy because I think he's extremely talented. Oh yeah, no, absolutely. Well, as you are probably aware, when we did the Joni Mitchell tribute record, he did a version of Joni's The River with Jonathan Goldsmith, Hugh Marsh, and Dave Pilch,

which I think is probably one of the definitive Canadian recordings, and they recorded it in one take, and Martin wanted to erase it and record a second take, and everybody just kind of tackled him and said, no, no, was that was a first take but yeah I mean well that's like I said when we were doing well music they said they came in with 52 songs and I didn't think the initial track listing represented Martin enough I thought he was a genius yeah and many share that sentiment including the great Robert Lawson, official fact checker

of the Toronto Mike podcast. Right. And so the last time I think I saw him was Jeff Kulowick, who then bought True North Records from Bernie. He lived out in Waterford and he had his office out there. And then he decided to, or he and his wife decided to open an art gallery as well and they had some kind of opening night party where they had a lot of musicians who were also artists displaying their works and Martin you know he showed up so it was

the last time I saw him but also and going back to the Bare Naked Ladies, is, I mean, as most people know, Martin painted the album covers for the Reostatics. And I think it was whale music. It could have been Melville, but I'm pretty sure it was whale music. Martin was having a tough time paying his rent, so he ended up selling the original painting for whale music to Ed Robertson from the Barenake Ladies.

It's all connected, man. It's all connected. The name I ignored, because I'm going to ask you about them now, is Martha and the Muffins. Absolutely. So, and then again, I mean, maybe we'll have a quick pause at True North and then get you to pop guru. So I have some like recent Martha Muffins, but I will say I thoroughly enjoyed Martha and Mark came over and I thoroughly they gave me a t-shirt which I still wear to this direction award today actually, but I got it altered by mom t-shirt on today.

But Martha and the Muffins, iconic band. I was just reading their upset Conservative Party of Canada using Echo Beach. But please tell me about your relationship, your ongoing relationship with Martha and the Muffins. Well, I mean, we started out around the same time. They were going to the art college. I was not a student at the time. But we, at the time, when I first came up to Toronto,

it was to play original music. And I arrive in Toronto and find out that it's become a top 40 city. And, and so as I'm trying to put together an original band, you know, we're trying to find places to play. And the only place to play original music at the time was the Beverly Tavern on Queen Street. And so a lot of art college students were there and Martha the Muffins were there. And so initially we were kind of both playing the same scene. I was a fan and that's kind of where we kind of left it. And then

when they made their The World is a Ball album, they recorded that album in Bath in England. And after they finished the album, they decided to stay there. so they lived there I think for two years and they had their own studio and they were recording you know the modern lullaby album and so at that point they decided to come back to Canada and they finished the album here in Canada and they started shopping around and they finished the album here in Canada. And they started shopping around and they arrived at my door and I said, of course I will absolutely sign them and release this record.

And then a couple other things happened. Martha said, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant and we won't be touring. Martha said, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant and we won't be touring. So if you, if you see that first video from the album, I think it was rainbow sign, all the shots are Martha from the kind of the shoulders up, like she's standing in a, in a field of, of tall grass or whatever, but, uh, uh, but it was, it was was absolutely brilliant record, still one of my favorite records of theirs.

And then things kind of goes a bit south in the sense that Stewart decides he wants to return to England and he sells the label to this trust fund baby from Winnipeg, who is a complete and utter idiot and has no idea what he's doing. And so unfortunately, the Marth and the Muffins record didn't get promoted to the extent that it should have. But despite that, we remained friends and they would sort of on and off call me and say what do you

think about this or we got this opportunity what do you think and eventually you know we became closer friends and friends first I would say and then they finally said well hey you know after I left True North Records because I worked there for five years kind kind of in the middle of pop guru, uh, they, we made it official and I signed them for management. Well, I'm going to play at the very end of this chat, I'm going to play some more recent Martha

and the muffins and, and ask you about it. But I realized as I, you know, we're talking about all these, you know, Voivoda and we're talking about real statics and bareaked Ladies and all these cats. And I look over to my right and I see, I've got a Sam the Record Man. You talked about musicians who also are artists. And then I thought about Kurt Swinghammer.

And did you work with Kurt Swinghammer? Like I know, you're only gonna ask this because he does show up in that, when I opened up this chat talking about that indie, uh, Canadian indie compilation Kurt's on that. Yeah. He, well, he actually, he did a track on the Joni Mitchell tribute record. Uh, I believe it's I'm, I'm a radio.

Um, so yeah, I mean, so I work with him in that sense and obviously knew him and he was part of the scene as well. What about Blair Packham? Any Blair Packham experiences? Well, we were both signed to capital at the same time. So I knew. The jitters, right? Yeah, the jitters. More top 40 nonsense from the jitters. What's going on here? OK, so why does it I mean, it sounds like this trust fund guy in Winnipeg that you reference there. But why do you end up at True North

with Bernie Finkelstein? Well, well, just to finish off in Trapid, right, like I made one more record there that I really liked by a group called Rail Tech. And they were cool because they were kind of combining electronics and rock and roll and dance before anybody else was really doing it. And they actually had a top 40 hit too, living in the real world. Anyway, so after I couldn't stand working with this trust fund baby anymore, and so I quit, and I ended up, Dean asked me to talk to this guy from Newfoundland, Fred Brokenshire, who owned Fred Records in St. John's, because he was doing a deal with him.

Because at that point, there was a lot of successful acts coming out of the Maritimes, the Rankin family and people like that. But Dean wanted something more contemporary and he felt that Fred had a good handle on the East Coast, but he didn't have any experience running a record label or signing acts. So Dean hired me. And as I said, I signed sandbox and Davenin, booming airplanes. And then, uh, eventually because we had so much

success, EMI bought the label and I ended up working for a year for Dean at EMI. Uh, but I realized that I ended up working for a year for Dean at EMI. But I realized that at that point I wanted to start my own company. So I started... And that's PopGuru. Yeah, I started PopGuru. So you know we started off and I signed maybe half dozen acts and we got off to a good start. But then at a certain point, either bands were breaking up or there was just, things were kind of stalling. And I was in Los Angeles meeting music supervisors on this Ontario export sponsored trip and Bernie had come down as well. And if anybody knows anything about Bernie, he doesn't like to eat alone.

So he came in for breakfast and he saw me and he asked if he could sit down. And we got to talking and he said, well, you know, I just fired my 8-hour guy. Would you be interested in the job? And also, I've been with Sony, distributed through Sony Music for the past two years. I wanna take the label back

and just set up independent distribution in all these various countries. Can you do that? And I said, yeah, I can do that. And there's not many people I would have said yes to, but Bernie Finkelstein was one, you know, like if I was gonna work for anybody else in Canada, it was gonna be for Bernie.

And we had a good run. We had a good run for five years until he sold the company to Jeff. And I really cher cherish those five years because not only was Bernie a true mentor to me, he became a real friend and we're still friends and we're still partners in a publishing company. Tell Bernie, Toronto Mike wants to talk to Bruce Colbert.

I've been working on this for a long time. Bernie, who loves wants to talk to Bruce Colbert. I've been, we've been working on this for a long time. Bernie, who loves the show by the way, and has literally been in the basement here for a deep dive, but pass that on to Bernie. I will. We're gonna close with some pop guru talk here. I have a Garmin watch and it like, basically it knows my age obviously

and my weight and my height, but it measures my heart rate and it knows when I'm working out and stuff because it's measuring my heart and things. But it keeps telling me, it just told me my age is decreased because you have your real age, your chronological age, and you have the fitness age. And I'm down to 42 years old now in the fitness age. And I just got a buzz and I looked over and it's like, oh, my age decreased.

I'm aging like Benjamin Buttons. I'm aging in reverse. Okay. So because I'm aging reverse, I'll probably never require the services of Ridley Funeral Home, but it's good to know they're there. So I have a gift for you. It is a gram. This is a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. Oh, terrific. Okay. Thank you. Well, when you're, when you're ready and it will be for several decades, you'll be happy to know Ridley Funeral Home only sells Canadian caskets. They have Northern casket to offer to their families.

And Brad Jones at Ridley Funeral Home has a great podcast called Life's Undertaking. Speaking of great podcasts, the season finale, the season eight finale of Yes We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast from Minaris hosted by Al Grego. It just dropped in the feed I think yesterday, but Al who's been in Regina all season went back to Ontario and visited Brenda and Rick Coletta, owners of the Fries, the Limit and the Parlor. After retiring from her corporate career, Brenda gave entrepreneurship a try. She bought a food truck. She called it the fries, the limit and sold poutine. And then Rick joined her and they bought a second truck. So we get this inspiring story because Al chats them up and brings this story

to us. Season eight of Yes, we are open. Graham, you got to subscribe to that one. Okay. And while you're subscribing to great podcasts, Nick Ienies has two great podcasts. I just want to tell everybody about one is called Building Toronto Skyline. The other is called Building Success. A recent episode of Building Toronto Skyline features a conversation about affordable housing with Toronto City Councillor Brad Bradford and the Building Success series.

He actually coaches me. So how can I generate more revenue from TMDS? I actually dropped that in the Toronto Miked feed. If you need to get rid of old devices, old electronics, old cables, Graham, don't throw it in the garbage because the chemicals will the chemicals will end up in our landfill. You go to recycle my electronics dot CA, put in your postal code and you can find out where to drop it will the chemicals will end up in our landfill. You go to recyclemyelectronics.ca, put in your postal code and you can find out where to drop it off.

Graham, do you like beer? I don't drink. It's okay if you don't drink, okay. Do you have any loved ones, any friends, any neighbors who enjoy fresh craft beer? Yes, my son-in-law's. Okay, your son-in-law's are gonna love you for bringing them some Great Lakes beer, so.

Okay. Fresh craft beer brewed right here in Southern Etobicoke. And Great Lakes Brewery is going to host us for TMLX 19 on June 26, 2025 from 6 to 9 p.m. That's 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard down the street from the Costco here in Southern Etobicoke. Not only is your first beer on the house, everybody's invited. It's a free event. But also, Palma Pasta is going to feed you. They make delicious, authentic Italian food. Graham, I know you don't drink, but do you eat Italian food? I do. Okay. I've got a lasagna in my freezer for you, buddy.

Okay. You didn't know you'd be leaving with so much swag. There you go. Last but not least, this is a book on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. I've been to three games so far this season. They play their games at Christie Pitts at Christie and blue are there. And it's just thrilling baseball. Like I've had a great time.

I threw out the first pitch on Sunday, but they have a Friday night game coming up. Like it's a Friday night lights thing with fireworks and everything. It's going to be awesome. You know, no ticket required. You show up at Christie Pitts, you grab a hot dog, maybe you grab a beer or two. You enjoy some awesome baseball. And that's at Christie Pitts. And I love my Toronto Maple Leafs baseball.

OK, a little music and then we get to just find out what's going on at Pop Guru here. And I was thinking of what to pull so many things I could pull. But I just want to ask you about this song because I read something you wrote about this song, and then I've heard a different cover of this in another show. So let me ask you about this one. Two dozen other dirty lovers Must be a sucker for it Cry cry but I don't need my mother Just hold my hand while I C-c-c-c-c-c-c-come on To a decision woman, sooner or later Your legs get wet, you get the crown C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C- Alright Graham, what are we listening to here? It's Save It for Later by Martha and the Muffins.

This version is by Martha and the Muffins, originally recorded by the English Beat. And how that came about was this English music supervisor was doing a trailer, or working on a trailer for the television series Sex Education. Which was a big show. Which is a big show. And she was looking for a cover of this song and so I suggested it to Mark and Martha and they recorded this really great version. We pitched it.

The music supervisor loved it. The producers loved it the producers Loved it, but it didn't end up getting used so I said to Mark and Martha It's just too good to just sit on the shelf. We should release it as a single and they said well We wouldn't be feeling we wouldn't feel comfortable if we just released it on its own you know, why don't you talk to some of the other artists on on your label and get them to record one of their favorite covers and we'll put out an album. Or well actually originally it was going to be an EP but then so many people wanted to get involved that we ended up doing this album called Coverama with

all these cool versions and in fact Marth and the Muffins did a second one they did a version of For What It's Worth by Buffalo Springfield. It's interesting so we're going back a few years but it's interesting that in the last year or so Eddie Vedder put out a cover of this song that was prominently used in The Bear. Right. So it's just interesting because you're just like ahead of that curve, like they opted not to go that direct, but a cover of this English beat song was going to be used in a popular show. Well, it's interesting because I talk to a lot of music supervisors kind of all the time kind of thing. And one of their pet peeves is this cycle of using cover

versions, but it never seems to go away. They always seem to find their way into movies or commercials or films. And I think if it's done right, like that was, then it could be really cool. Okay. So we're talking Pop Pop Guru here on our way out. I gotta say right now that I love this chat because you kind of fill in a lot of the cracks here, be it Mirren Kaddell or Bare Naked Ladies or Rio Statics or Martha and the Muffins here. But I'm gonna play another Pop Guru song,

talk about it, and then maybe bring us up to speed on what Pop Guru is up to and then we're gonna take a photo by Toronto Tree. How does that sound? Sounds good. Sounds good. kitchen You got that, got the names You got that flowers, got that buttermilk I'm walking the fine lines I'm walking the fine lines You know what I mean Let me tell you about I'm walking the fine lines

I'm walking the fine lines I'm walking the fine lines Can I get it? If you sippin' Don't be trippin' Where we dippin' don't be missin' We be cookin' in the kitchen Ain't no wishin' we be tippin'

Be steppin' with the kittens Don't be reppin' what you wishin' Don't be messin' with the recipe Read it how it's written Get it ignition, get the fixin' Yeah everybody pitchin' Stop your f**kin' and your snitchin' Why you ditch ignition, hit the fixin' Yeah, everybody pitchin' Stop your f**kin' and your snitchin'

Why you ditchin', why you switchin'? That whiskey and the syrup stir the pot and get to mixin' If we pitchin', watch your diction Keep it real and not your fiction If you cook it, if you grow Then my partner, you should listen If you lookin' for that smell We got that Rudolph Don Donald blitzin' out.

One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, Graham, what are we listening to this time? Well this is Chemical Dreams featuring John Orpheus and probably what a lot of people don't realize is that Chemical Dreams is Mark and Martha from Martha and the Muffins. A few years back we were just talking on the phone as we usually do and they said, well, you know, we're always being perceived at this band from the 80s

and as a one hit wonder because of Echo Beach. And I said, well, you know, you don't have to do that. You could come up with a side project. In fact, they've come up with two side projects. The other side project, nobody's heard yet, but this one is Chemical Dreams and featuring John Orpheus. A year or so back, it was another kind of one of these things, a music supervisor had sent me a brief for a car commercial and I said to Mark and Martha, why don't you get together with John and see if you guys can come up with a song for a car commercial and they came up with this great song, not

this one, but the previous single by Chemical Dreams featuring John Orpheus and I said oh this is too good we can't give it to the we can't give it for a commercial we're gonna put it out as a single so so you know Mark and Martha and and John have just become a mutual admiration society and they love working together. And, you know, we'll at some point, we'll put out an EP of Chemical Dream songs. And how's Martha doing? She's doing pretty good. She's doing pretty good.

I mean, obviously, physically, she doesn't have the stamina that she used to have, and they can't really play live or tour, but she's great. I mean, she's sharp as a tack. She's still singing. She can, uh, uh, she, she works, collaborates with a lot of my younger artists and, uh, she's always active in the studio. Well, here's an idea, you know, and it's kind of similar to what's happening

with chemical dreams in this, uh, new project. I don't even know about yet, you know, and it's kind of similar to what's happening with chemical dreams in this new project I don't even know about yet, but like it could be like the gorillas like it's a cartoon You're way ahead of me. You've probably already already already on this but like yeah So it's sort of like it blurs instead of you know, the old guy from you know, 90s band blur your cartoons or can't from 90s band Blur, your cartoons, or Kankan. No, anyway, Chemical Dreams, and John Orpheus. I know this gentleman, I think he did something with Shawn Jones, who's an FOTM,

but I've heard a lot of his stuff, and it's great. So on our way out here, bring us up to speed, maybe, on what's happening with PopGuru. Well, you know, there are some acts like two years ago we had the 25th anniversary of PopGuru and you know, I had signed Marth and the Muffins and Grand Analog at the time. Now Adario is a solo artist. So I've been working with both of them through PopGuru for 18 plus years. And so Adario has just recently collaborated

with Mad Professor, who did a dub album for Massive Attack. And so he's got a couple of projects on, he's got a new EP coming out, he's got an EP that he's working on with Mad Professor and he's got an album that will probably come out next year. John is going to record a new album. He's also an author and he has signed a book deal with Simon & Schuster and he's got a book coming out called Black Cherokee in August and he's going to be working on an album that's more stripped down, so more of an acoustic album that showcases his Caribbean and African

roots. Alex exists, he's going to be recording a second album, he's written most of it now. So yeah, I mean there's a certain amount of artists that I have and also the other project that Mark and Martha has is called Dazzlefield and it's a concept EP. It's about breakups so what they've done is they've they've worked with a number of young female singer songwriters and co-written songs with them about breakups and so that'll be another EP at some point down the down the road. Love this Graham. This was great buddy. My pleasure. We didn't miss anything did we? I mean there's so much we missed but anything massive that you're gonna beat me up for

later? No I don't think so. You didn't sign Madonna or anything right? No. I did not. That was the sire guy. I could tell you some of the acts that I passed on. Okay. Well not so much past. What's the biggest act you passed on? Cowboy Junkies. Wow! You just didn't hear it, I guess. Or you what? You didn't think the old country thing? Well, no, no. I mean, I think they had organized, or maybe Graham Henderson had organized a showcase at Lee's Palace, which was a fairly big venue. And they all came on and unusually at the time, they all sat down. And like the audience was louder than Margo was.

So I just didn't hear it initially. But then a little while later, I don't know whether we got invited or we just showed up but anyway they showcased at New Music Seminar again and they got signed to BMG and we happened to be there, Stewart and I happened to be there and we got invited out to dinner afterwards so there was us the A&R guy from BMG and Graham and the band and so by that time obviously it was too late and they made the right decision because BMG did a great job with that first record and later became really good friends with Peter Moore, who produced and mastered that first record of Cowboy Junkies and also mastered all of the Marathon of Muffins reissue records.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,704th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Join us on June 26th at Great Lakes, 6 to 9 PM. Palma Pasta, don't leave without your lasagna, Graham. Menaris, listen to season eight of Yes We Are Open. Toronto Maple Leafs baseball, get your butts to Christy Pitts.

Trust me, you'll love it. Recyclemyelectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and of course, Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when I catch up. Speaking of Halifax, I'll catch up with Scott MacArthur. What's he up to now? Let's check in with Scotty Mack. See you all then!