Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Graven: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1732

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

In this 1732nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with musician Graven a.k.a. Matty McKechnie about his music, musicians he's played with, Gisele's Big Backyard and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, the Waterfront BIA, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Hey what's up this is Chuck D and you are listening to Toronto Mic right here right now in the place to be. Welcome to episode 1732 of Toronto Miked, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Toronto's Waterfront BIA. Check out what's happening on Toronto's waterfront this summer.

Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Get your butts to Christie Pitts this summer for the best baseball in the city outside the dome. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto Skyline A podcast and book from Nick Ainii's and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut, it's Graven. Mr. Graven, how you doing?

I'm doing good, Mike. How are you? Good. So Graven, not your birth name. No, that's correct. So tell me the, cause when I think of Graven, I'm thinking of Gravenhurst, okay?

But your name is Matty. Yeah. So tell me the origin of the name Graven. The origin story. So I grew up Christian and I knew that Graven was a term from the Old Testament meaning like something made by human hands like a idol or an image but I didn't want to be associated with that it was like that's garbage but I always thought that

Nate the word was kind of cool it's like if you take the word gravity then the word heaven and cut it them both in half okay makes graven because as humans are kind of always stuck in one world by gravity, but thinking about, you know, maybe an afterlife or something like that. Well, Graven is a great name for somebody on a podcast hosted by, sorry, sponsored by Ridley Funeral Home. You got Graves.

That's right. You're Graven. Are you still religious? No, not anymore. I would say that I'm maybe spiritual, but not religious. I think, yeah, religiosity can cause problems in people, but you know, if you're doing it and it brings you joy and meaning that's great. But just for me, I had to, uh, get out of that world a long time ago.

How long ago did you escape that world? Um, I'm going to say it was probably getting close to 30. And, uh, I was just, you know, involved in a lot of church leadership and stuff. And I even had a camp too. I was like a staff leader. It was a worship leader. Um, but just didn't feel real for me. I sort of saw a disconnect between, you know, these people who were following

like an ethos or something and the actual, you know, realization of that in, in society, it just sort of became like a little bit of a, seemed like a gossip circle or something. And, um, my experience was like a lot of Christians were just kind of hanging out with other Christians as opposed to doing stuff in the community, you know, helping homeless or whatever. But interesting thing. Did you detect some hypocrisy maybe?

Oh yeah, for sure. Lots of that. And I think also just personally, I just, um, I was tired of going to church so much, you know, I spent so many Sundays in churches and services and like all your Sunday, like every Sunday for 30 years was, uh, in a church. So yeah, I just, uh, got away from that, but now, you know, I'm 48, a little more mellow. And if someone gets some meaning or joy from that, that's great. But yeah,

it's just not my thing. 30 years is a good run. It was a good run. Like usually you sort of snap out of it as like a teenager or maybe in your early twenties, but you got three decades out of it. I did. I don't think I really knew what it meant till I was, you know, maybe 15 or 16 or something, sort of the idea of like a personal relationship with this God Jesus character. But yeah, I mean, for me, it just, I'll started to feel foreign.

It's like that Bilber bit he talks about where there's like a pastor speaking into a microphone and he's backing away. And at one point the pastor's going, and on the seventh day we'll go to hell. And then he said, as he got older, the voice would just was more like, and on the seventh day. Cause that was more of what it was like.

It just became less relevant to me. Well, I always think of a Reverend Lovejoy in the Simpsons. And then I think, okay, the great Christian is Ned Flanders. And dare I say, Graven, you're rocking a bit of a Ned Flanders mustache. Hmm.

I never thought about that, but yeah, I love, I love the Ned. Ned was a funny character. I was actually just listening to Conan's podcast and he was talking all about the creation of that character and writing for the Simpsons, all that stuff. Oh, yeah.

That's my wheelhouse right there. So with the Stephen Colbert cancellation that made big news yesterday, I was just like, like thinking about my own personal history with late night talk shows, because I tapped out, I mean, I have, I tapped out about 15 years ago, I'd say, but I grew up loving David Letterman. And then this Conan character took over late night.

And I just, from day one, I was, I just loved Conan O'Brien. Me too. Totally. Okay. We have a lot in common here. Absolutely. I'm a huge Conan fan and I was a Letterman fan too, because I loved how he, you could tell there was something sort of uncomfortable about Letterman.

He wasn't really comfortable with stars or Hollywood people. He was sort of maybe a bit anxious, but he really had a wit that could eviscerate people at times. You know, OK, so we're going to cover a lot of ground. We're going to get to know Graven, a.k.a. Matty McKechnie. Am I saying that right? That's right. You got it. OK, I nailed it. That's the first time.

I'm everything. Someone just yesterday said McKinney and then someone else said McKenzie recently. I don't know where people get the Zed, but eh, it's just whatever. At least you said Zed. Okay. But yeah, uh, they called Jim McKinney, they called him Howie and he's an FOTM like

you, so a friend of Toronto Mike. And I'm actually going to start with some FOTM connections and then we're going to go all over the place, but, uh, I know you have a friend of Toronto Mike and I'm gonna actually gonna start with some FOTM connections and then we're gonna go all over the place. But I know you have a podcast. Shout out the name of your podcast. It's called Gravintown. Gravintown. Okay.

And I actually, so I don't know if people do this, like I always think of someone's going to listen to Toronto Mike for the first time. They might cherry pick like, Oh, a guest they know or something like that. But I found myself, I said, I want to hear this podcast. I listened to the most recent episode. Like I just pressed play in the most recent episode.

And very early in this episode, there was a bit of a mind blow for me. And I kind of want to talk about it right off the top because it connects you to another beloved FOTM. And then we'll kind of get to know the Graven story here, but I'm going to play this and then I'm going to share the mind blow with the listenership here so beauty the big backyard yourself big backyard friends of high and fun below feel the grass between your toes there's a place I want to go where I can learn and I can grow with giggly grass and great big trees where you can be you and I can be me.

Giselle's Big Backyard. Giselle's Big Backyard. And you had on your show the titular character uh, you know, the titular character there, Giselle. Yeah, that's right. I don't know if titular is a word I would use, but no, I like that. That's, but you got to be careful when you say that word. Yeah.

She was so lovely and just really easy to talk to. And then as she started talking, she was the one who brought up to me that Ron Hawkins wrote the theme song and I had no idea. Like he didn't. Okay. So I talked to Ron yesterday. So I got, now I got to bring some facts to the story. So what the mind blows. So I missed this show completely. We'll talk about your history in a minute.

He sang it, right? Did he sing? Absolutely. So, so that voice of course is Ron Hawkins from lowest of the low. We're going to talk about your relationship with Ron. I reached out to Ron yesterday and I'm like, okay, I, I, did you write this? And Ron confessed that he, he he absolutely he's singing that song But he did not write Giselle's big backyard theme song But still and I saw on Facebook today So I reached out to Ron yesterday and then I guess I

Reminded him that he did this and he posted it on his Facebook page. And I I'm like, oh Ron what? Where did you get this idea to share your theme from the Giselle's big backyard? In fact, and then Chris Tate, and I gotta talk about Chris Tate with you too. Let's do this. How do you know, and what is your relationship with Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low? Well, Ron, I just met maybe about,

I'm gonna say two years ago, he and Stephen Stanley and Chris Brown were doing those Brown Hawkins Stanley Stanley. They played live down here. All three of them. Absolutely. Yep. All three of them. It was amazing. So I opened a couple shows on that tour. They asked me if I wanted to come and I'd been getting to know Stephen and I knew Chris already from years back and being connected to Kingston and Wolf Island, but not, not well. And I'd really gotten to know Stephen and Chris well, but Ron, I didn't know.

And to be totally honest, I've talked about this with Ron. When I first met him, I was like, man, I think this guy might hate me. I'm not sure. Because he just was more quiet, sort of kept to himself. I didn't really- He gives off those vibes. Yeah.

Because he's a big fucking punk star. He's a punk. But you know what? Like one of the hugest hearted persons I've ever met and it's just lovely. And so then he ended up through that tour asking me to open for some of his solo shows. And he did, yeah, we did that last year in Burlington. I opened for him at the Rivoli. It was like eight shows or something. Went to Buffalo, New York. And so, and they're not doing that right now. No.

Cause he came over and told him and Lawrence Nichols came over and they said, they're not going to the United States right now. Control your dogs. Yeah. How Andrew Scott put it. Control your control, your dogs, Andrew Scott. Wow.

What a great reference. I'm such a huge, they were going to do a Sloan lowest of the low concert in Buffalo. They were going to call it. They had a, and Ron had this idea going to do a, a Sloan lowest at the low concert in Buffalo. They were in a call. They had a, and Ron had this idea for a sign where it said Sloan and then you'd put out some lights and it would say low cause they'd spell Sloan LOW instead of the proper way. And this whole tour is gone now.

But I guess, I guess Andrew Scott was the first, I guess the Canary in the coal mine who said basically I'm not, you know, America, there's great Americans, there's some lovely Americans, but control your dogs or I'm not coming over. Right, control your dogs meaning like that, the craziness happening? Yeah, like, yeah, like you may not have voted for the man and you may not support, but you know,

they're not visiting with that man at the helm and what's happening down there. I totally sympathize with that. I mean, I have a potential house show across the border at some time in the fall, but I'm still figuring that out. But yeah, it's funny. You brought up Sloan too, cause I know we're going all over, but my daughter's name is actually Sloan. So, and that's partially because of the band influence and my ex and I,

Sloan's mom couldn't come to agreement on any name we were going back and forth back and forth back and forth for months and then she texted me on the on the way to work one day as I was working for Bose when Tom Green was having his beer put into that. Bose which was which was purchased. Purchased. So yesterday I record this is kind of a mind-blowing yesterday I don't know if you know this great I recorded here yesterday. I was worried we wouldn't have anything to I record, this is kind of a mind blow, but yesterday, I don't know if you know this, but I recorded here yesterday.

I was worried we wouldn't have anything to talk about. I know, there's going to be a lot here. But I recorded yesterday with Great Lakes Brewery, sponsors of this show, and they sent over fresh craft beer for you. Oh wow, so nice. And this podcast is called Between Two Fermenters. And this record, every episode is like Troy Birch

from Great Lakes talks to different like pioneers and icons of the craft beer industry in this country. Okay. And the recording yesterday, which will drop Tuesday while I'm camping under the stars features the VP of marketing. I think that's the title from steam whistle. Right. Who bought, who bought bows and there was a whole bunch of cause the whole bunch of chatter about bows and, and you know, the tractor icon and everything

like that. So bows was discussed in great detail down here yesterday. Wow. That's so funny. So there you go. I was on my way to bows. I worked there for about a year and my boss was actually Sean Cooley, who is Tom Green's best friend growing up. Great guy. And he still is, I think. Good friends with Tom. Anyway, I was on my way and Jelly and Sloan's mom texted me, she goes, what do you think about Sloan? And I pulled off, like I was in Hawks, almost in Hawksbury, and I pulled off the road

and I called her and I was like, that's it. And she's like, yeah, it was. And also. You know when it's the right name. That's it. And also Sloan Peterson from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, great, strong female character. 100%.

How do you spell Sloan, your daughter's name? With no E, like the band. Okay. Because you can also then, because if you had an E or whatever, you'd be like, oh, Tara Sloan from Joy Drop. Oh yeah, no, also. Joy Drop is great.

It's spelled differently. Yeah, and Sloan with an E, I think is like, there's like T's that are called Sloan T's and stuff. Okay, Sloan, okay, so Cancon royalty here, I love talking about it all. So a lot of names were dropping here, but one of the names I dropped in the mix there was Chris Tate.

Yes. But when I say the name Chris Tate, I need to clarify because we have two Chris Tates. Do you know the lead singer of Chalk Circle is also a Chris Tate? Oh, I didn't know that, no. And I won't bore the lead singer of chalk circle is also a Chris Tate? Oh, I didn't know that so And I won't bore the listenership of this story because uh listener devout listeners know this story, but I thought I was booking chalk circles Chris Tate

And at my door was the laserets Chris Tate So I actually yeah, so I had sitting here a different Chris Tate, no prep, nothing. Great episode. You should listen to it. But what's your relationship like with Chris Tate from the Lazarets? Chris Tate is great. So I met him, Tate is great. We met through Stephen Stanley at a show at the horseshoe last year. And so it was my band, Chris' band has been Lazarettes and Stephen Stanley and his band.

So we all had a great evening and, um, Chris put on another show last summer at the Dakota, right? One of the last ones, I think before it shut down, sadly. And, uh, he was like, Maddie, do you want to come and open for this? Just solo. I was in the area. I think it was in Prince Edward County at the time with my family. And I said, yeah, I think I can do that. And then this one, he was like, we have a new album, but I would like your full band to come.

And I was like, well, yeah, I think I can work it for this or whatever. And Chris is just phenomenal dude, like really good guy. His band is great. I think they all have day jobs and stuff, and I'm doing this kind of full-time, the music thing, but you know, it's always great to play with people who are welcoming, friendly, accepting, non-pretentious, as you know, and in the music world,

you meet a lot of pretentious people, so it's nice to meet people who are down to earth and lovely, and that's how the vibes that I get from Chris Tate. Well, let me just say on the record, since I've sat, because subsequently I've had the chalk circle Chris Tate over. Okay. And we opened with that fun little story.

Both Chris Tates are lovely people. Yeah. And I think it's because the, maybe because they're Canadian musicians, like, uh, what are you going to be an asshole? But is it true that you're playing with or opening for the lazarets tonight? That's true. Yeah. Okay.

Where will you be tonight? I'm going to drop this right away. Oh, please. It's at the Monarch Tavern, but the thing is Mike, it's sold out. I know I saw that. It's sold out. But, but yeah, come, uh, come by and say hi. Maybe I'll see you outside if you're there.

Okay. So hello to the lazarets, Chris Tate. Uh, hello. By the way, you mentioned to me before we press record, you heard the episode I recorded, my last episode actually with John Wing regarding Ron versus Dawn. It just so happens in that episode, if you heard it, you heard me reference Wolf Island where Dawn Cherry had a cottage forever. And back-

I didn't get that far, but keep going. Oh, you haven't got this far. Spoiler alert. There's a shout out to the bourbon tabernacle choir. Oh no way. Like I just shouted it out for the real heads who know how Wolf Island is connected to Chris Brown and that band.

And I, is Stephen Stanley living in on Wolf Island now? He was, I think, but not anymore. I think now he's in Prince Edward County. Okay. Yeah. Toronto's losing all the greats, but Steven Stanley, OG member of lowest of the low.

Yeah. And just speaking of sweethearts, one of the nicest musicians, I saw him recently at Christie Pitts, where he was watching a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game. And this is an opportunity for me to tell you Christie Pitts has the best value in the city. Take your family because it's free. You get great quality baseball. It's free.

You know, they're playing a Saturday night, I think at 7 30. Just take the family, get yourself to Christie Pitts, grab a Leafs logger, hot dog, and just soak it in. What a great night in the city. So Toronto Maple Leafs baseball, fantastic. I love seeing Stephen Stanley there. I have a book here for you, Mr. Graven. Can I call you Mr. Graven? Is that okay?

Okay. This book is on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. So you now, so far we're keeping tabs here. You've got fresh craft beer from great lakes. This is incredible. You've got a book on the history of Toronto Maple make believes baseball. There will be more for you later, but tell me about your relationship with Steven Stanley, because when I was looking at where can I see you graven, I saw

that you're going to be doing a bunch of gigs of Steven Stanley. I am. Yeah. Steven and I did a tour together last fall. And before that, I'll tell you, Steven was one of the few people who like really came up when I was playing at Wolf Island with my band just when after COVID had kind of downgraded, I guess, and things were sort of opening. I came over there with my band, played a great show, and it was just a lot of fun. And Stephen came up after him was like, that was so lovely. Like he's

just, I was so inspired hearing your band was great, blah, blah, blah. But I didn't know who he was. I'd never met him, but I knew he had a radio show. I didn't know he was from Lois Delo. I knew there was a guy named Steven. He has a show called Northern. WISH?

WISH. Northern WISH. So he has that show and I knew that he, but I didn't know he's from Los Alamos. My pedal steel player, Tom Thompson, who's coming tonight, who's played with Jim Bryson and Kathleen, all kinds of people. Tom goes, do you know who that was?

And I was like, no. And he's like, that's Steven. Can you swear on this podcast? Yeah, he goes, that's Steven fucking Stanley, man. And I was like, whoa. And then Tom went up and was just like jaw dropped. And so, but you know, this just shows Steven has no ego. He's not, he's just like, he's done some huge things

in music, obviously remember Lois DeLowe for a long time, wrote some incredible songs, his own stuff with Steven Stanley and Steven Stanley band is incredible. You know, I saw him play, do you know the name Pete Fowler, Pete Fowler? Yes, the radio guy. Yeah, so now he's like a sergeant with the OPP for a long time now.

He left radio to become a cop basically. And I was during the pandemic when we couldn't see live music. The great Pete Fowler put a concert on in his backyard and Stephen Stanley played that, fantastic. That's where I met Blair Packham. Do you know Blair Packham? I know the name, but I don't know him.

I think, yeah. Must've been crazy, played it hot. Should've played it cool. Now I'm just last of the red hot fools. What band is he from? The Jitters. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

It's all connecting here, but Stephen Stanley, another wild small world connection here. Yeah, yeah. It's all connecting here. But Stephen Stanley, another wild small world connection here. Yeah, Stephen's the best. He just is really like a mensch person he wants to, and he spends so much time with this show, as I'm sure you do with your podcast, promoting other people.

Like he has his own stuff, and he's interested in his own music, but he spends so much time championing other bands and musicians, and that's like a real hidden gem of a person to me. So that Ron versus Dawn episode you listened to that has the shadow to the bourbon, tapernac acquire, uh, that was sort of sparked because of a piece that gear Joyce published in the, uh, the Kingston wig standard in the newspaper, the Kingston newspaper.

Yeah. And Gare Joyce, when he was younger mainly, he was told by many a person he trusted that he was sort of Stephen Stanley's doppelganger. Like Stephen Stanley and Gere Joyce have a similar look to them. And I just think that's a wild little tie up to the whole conversation we're having here. Yeah, that is.

Did you go to Queens at some point? No. Okay, that's why Apple fell flat there. Did you know what the hats were called that you get at Queens, the little? Tell me. The Tam. I believe it's called the Tam,

the Scottish tartan hat that they wear with, I think it's associated with some program. Anyways, I had a lot of friends who went to Queens, and random fact. Well, that's a good university. You have to be really smart to get in there, so I slummed it at associated with some program. Anyways, I had a lot of friends who went to Queens, random fact. Well, that's a good university. You have to be really smart to get in there. So I slummed it at U of T here, but okay. So I kind of breeze by this quickly,

but I just want to shine a light on it and I don't want to bury the lead here. So your podcast Grave in Town, the most recent episode, what is her last name? What is the last name of Giselle? Corinthians. Okay, is that Greek? I believe so, and you know, I'll never forget that

is cause Carinthians is a book of the Bible. Absolutely, listen, I was stuck in church on many a Sunday myself. You did? Well, cause I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic schools, yeah. But you still had to kind of know the Bible. So you know all about the Carinthians then too.

I recited it, I'm gonna recite it for you right now. I'm trying to like, you know, get rid of the brain then too. I recited it. I'm going to recite it for you right now. The I'm trying to like, you know, get, get rid of the brainwashing. I'm still working on it. Yeah. All these decades later, it's a never ending battle. And then there's these, you know, it's funny cause when you mentioned Stephen Stanley and you met him or whatever, I was thinking, um, you know, so you could go up to him and go bleed a little

wild tonight. And then Stephen would say, damn, damn the circumstance. Cause that's when him and Ron had that beautiful beautiful What you call it harmonizing on that great song and then it's similar like sometimes I'll hear something in the wild related to like a Catholic mass and without like having any control over my leg vocal box I'll just go into the ritual because all those Sundays as a kid having this ritualistic chanting, and also let us be give thanks from the god. There's all this ritual speech that it doesn't come out. It's almost like it gets triggered and you can't stop forever. I don't know how to get rid of it. Yeah, it's true. And to this day, if I walk into a room or am around Christians and people go,

let's pray. I'll just probably bow my head without thinking about it. I'm like, oh, I don't, but it's funny. You know, I just did, I did that for so long. And if my family, like extended family will still pray at meals and stuff and I'll say amen at the end. And I'm like, why did I, but yeah, it's just ingrained. It's ingrained. You can't, yeah. It's you've been brainwashed there. Okay. So, uh, still bouncing around all over the place. Uh, when I asked you if, you know, when you discovered that the religion was a hip, hip,

hip, hip, hypocritical, what would they use? Hip, hypocrisy. Yeah, hypocrisy. I started thinking, do you remember heroes of hypocrisy? Do you remember this? Is this like a hip hop band? Yeah.

Okay. The heroes of hypocrisy. I haven't thought about them in a very long time, but you saw my t-shirt and then I started this episode with a little Chuck D. Yes. So I think I got a few years on you. Can you tell me you're north of 40, right?

I'm 48. Yeah. You're 48. Yeah. You know what? Do you color your mustache? Yeah, thank you. I actually had you a bit younger than that.

So, okay, so we're similar. Bless you, son. We're getting a couple of years here. See, there's my Christian coming up. What is, God bless me. God bless me, everyone. What is your personal relationship with hip hop? Jesus Christ, sorry.

Okay. With hip hop, and then we'll figure out about your music. And shut it down. Oh, so with hip hop, so that's a good question. Way back, probably when I was about 12 or 13, Figure out about your music and so with hip hop. So that's a good question way back Probably when I was about 12 or 13, I started making rap tapes in my bedroom with the dual You know the dual cassette deck players. So I had two of those and 51 years old of course, I know

Dual cassette decks were great. And so what I would do is I figured out how to steal Beats off of rap songs that would be open, you know, like that weren't, didn't have any rapping and I would keep dubbing it over and over. Like it was a real skill and then I would get, you know, a different part of the song. And then I would, with the little condenser mic, you know, nothing, but the little condenser mic on the tape recorder, I would record over that with the beat playing in the background.

And then that was my whole tiny short-lived bedroom career as a MC. But did you save any of these tapes? They're around, but MC Man of Steel was my rapper name. Okay, and then DC Comics sent you a cease and desist. Yeah, I didn't ever put them out into the world. They just were like cut up, you know, pictures of me on the front of little cassettes with looking

like hardcore and stuff. See, this is a charming story till we find out you were 35 years old when you were doing this. Yeah. I think the last one I made, I was probably about 16 or 17 and I was trying to be more tough in those years, you know, cause I was listening. There was gangster rap was starting to come up,

but you know, the stuff I grew up on was all the wordplay, you know. So what, give me like shout out some, some artists that you grew up loving. First four cassettes that I ever had in my life were Run DMC, Raising Health, Fat Boys, Crushing, LL Cool J, Bigger and Deffer, and Beastie Boys, Licensed to Ill. And I had those four and I think I took a picture of them and I was just like, Ooh, those, you know, those four tapes really blew my mind. And it was all about word play. It was all about fun. It was like,

put down your opponent, but do it smartly and do it craftily. You know, using words, it wasn't about guns or money or success or anything like that. It was really just about being creative. I don't remember being introduced to gangster app as we called it until NWA. Like I don't, so NWA became a big deal and I'll confess, I definitely own some NWA. And I definitely, I definitely. So I mean, I would consider, you know, and then I

went on to get the solo stuff from ice cube, for example, death certificate and predator. Are those the two? I can't, those are two. I think I could be something like that, but you know, and they, you know, they had diss tracks back and forth, no Vaseline, you might remember, right? Like this was the diss tracks we listened to.

But my hip hop, so similar to you, like those artists you shouted out, these Def Jam artists, and then I guess at some point, I was watching much music and I saw the video for Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos. This is how I remember it in my mind's eye. It might have been a spotlight. Do you remember the spotlight?

So I think it might have been a Public Enemy spotlight. And then I recorded it to VHS on Much Music. What was it, Rap City? Rap City, right? No, it was like Spotlight, which is just like, they would be like, okay, we're gonna play only songs from one artist. Because I remember recording it to VHS

and I saw Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos, but I remember definitely seeing the video for Night of the Living Bassheads. Okay. Cause I remember recording the VHS and I saw Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos, but I remember definitely seeing the video for Night of the Living Bass Hits. Okay. Yeah. That song blew my mind anyway. So you end up getting, uh, it takes a nation of millions to hold us back. Which I got soon after those four tapes. They've changed my mind. And then because you discover a band on their second album, right? You gotta go back and get the first one. Like we all did this with Nirvana. We all had to go back and get Bleach yeah you know what I mean oh I miss Bleach yeah you go back you go this is fucking great too but that's uh you'll bum rush the show yeah and then they put out an album you're like oh you can't top it takes a nation of millions but then in my opinion they equal it

with uh fear of a black planet yeah fear of a black planet was crazy was that was that 9-1-1 as a joke yeah that's on there for sure and now's on there for sure. And now here we are in 2025. Fight the Power? Yeah, Fight the Power was on that too. I'm still comparing all the new rap, cause I've got two older, two adult children who listen to a lot of current hip hop, but I'm still comparing today's rap to those three albums.

Yo Bumrush, the show, Fear of a Black, It Takes a Nation, Millions Will Hold Us Back, and Fear of a Black Planet. Everything's held up to that. And then I end up always like to bring another Simpsons reference into play. Like I always feel like I end up like Abe Simpson. Like yelling at the clouds basically.

Get off my lawn. Get off my lawn. So to speak. Yeah, I hear you. You know what, okay. So to talk public enemy shop with you quickly. I love Chuck D. I loved his flow and I'm still a huge fan of him,

but there was something about Flavor Flav that didn't really resonate with me. And I think- Was he too jokey? Because I've seen Public Enemy without Flav and it's missing that hype man. Chuck D is so serious and so intellectual and so smart that I think maybe a lot of it, you know, they

wanted that kind of clown aspect. You need a little yeah boys in there. He's the jester, right? He's the jester. And you mentioned 9-1-1 as a joke, that's a flavor flavor, but the first flavor song I've ever heard was cold lampin'. Cold lampin', yeah.

I'm lampin', I'm lampin', I'm cold, cold lampin'. Yeah. So, I mean, I personally will defend like the role of flavin' and all, cause I don't, I feel like you need that juxtaposition with the chuckin'. And I don't want to go too deep down this, Rahul, except to say I also did enjoy the album

after Fear of a Black Planet, which was called Apocalypse 91, The Enemy Strikes Black. Do you remember this? Yeah, sort of. So I did like that as a fan, but then that's pretty much, then everything after that, I think music and our message and everything after that, just you could sense a creative dip and I just go back to those first three

Public Enemy albums. Yeah, there's a couple songs that Public Enemy came up with I think in movies, like there's one called He Got Game and that's an incredible song. And that, you know, it's like years. Steven Stills is on that. Yes, even years after, it's like, oh, that blew my mind.

And then there was one called Louder, Harder Than You Think or Louder Than You Think? Yo, cause they had a hit earlier called Louder Than A Bomb. Louder Than A Bomb, that's a great one too. This was like Harder Than You Think or something. Harder Than You Think I think is, yeah, Harder Than You Think kind of starts out with these, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, those horns.

Great song, incredible. Well, let's put it this way. I literally this week heard New Public Enemy. Wow. Like he did a lot, I spoke ageism and I was watching the video because I followed Chuck on Blue Sky. And I was thinking, yeah, he's now rapping about,

like he's losing his hearing, he's going blind. Like he's rapping about being a 60 something year old man, but it still hits kind of hard. Like he's kind of, he's not trying to be Chuck D as 25 year old, 30 year old. No. He's now Chuck D as a 60 year old man. That's wild.

I should really listen to that stuff because that to be still releasing and doing that at his age, it's wild. It still sounds good actually, but I think he takes care of himself. Like he's always talking about, you know, proper diet and not, you know, not just eat, living on McDonald's and all this. Like he's always talking about, you know, proper diet and not, you know, not just eat living on McDonald's and all this.

Like he's really been kind of, even I heard him once do this thing about, you know, get a colonoscopy. Like, you know, he's really doing that. Okay, so we both like hip hop. Mm-hmm, the early days. Ooh, I wanted to ask you real quick. Sorry, it's off sheet by NWA.

Yeah. Me personally, and I know a lot of people love him, I was never really a fan of Eazy-E. But Ice Cube loved. A little bit of a squeaky voice. Yeah, and kind of chunky. Like wasn't always on the beat, a little bit his own vibe. I can appreciate him and respect people that like him.

But MC Ran, I thought too, great voice, like had a great flow. Dre, obviously, you know, incredible. So now the album, the first album post Ice Cube, I can't even say the title, but N-Word for Life, basically. And I had that and I remember liking it, but it doesn't age very well, but it's really misogynist and it's super misogynist.

But it definitely sounded to my ears then sort of like, uh, it was like, it felt dangerous. It's funny cause they had a big song on that called appetite for destruction. And I felt the same way in 87 or whatever it was, 86, 87, when I bought appetite for destruction from guns and roses on cassette, where it sounded dangerous. Like I like it when music sounds dangerous. Yeah, I know what you mean. Appetite, you know what, lots of people around me, again, maybe this is where we're different, but we're huge Guns N' Roses fans.

And I think Brian Adams, Reckless had come out similar in that same sort of timeline. And I was always way more a fan of that stream. Guns N' Roses, again, something about Axl's voice for me just could never get into it. Later, kind of respected November Rain. I was like, oh, that's kind of a cool song and the solo in that is great, but yeah.

Well, you know, we can't be identical twins here, Graven. Oh, of course. That would be ridiculous, because I'll spin Appetite of Redestruction right now and dig every tune on that thing, so. Fair. And it opens with Welcome to the Jungle, those riffs I think still are the greatest band.

So I, you know, I realized, okay, I'm gonna play some of your music in a minute because we gotta talk about music. But Giselle's Big Backyard, I've been trying to get back to this a few times, too many exciting tangents with you, Graven. No, I like it. Giselle's Big Backyard is a blind spot for me,

but I did recognize her, and I absolutely must have seen it on TVO, and it's possible, because I have a 23-year-old and a 21-year-old, that it's probably because maybe they would be watching like TVO Kids or something. Oh, for sure they would have. But I understand from your episode on Graventown

that you would watch, like by yourself, you would watch Giselle's Big Backyard. Yeah, it would just come on, I think, on TVO when I was sort of breaking up with, well, not quite breaking up, but getting close to the end of my marriage. I was married for almost a decade to somebody and I was pretty depressed.

I worked at a call center. I really hated my life. And yeah, her show would come on sometimes and I would just sort of be like, oh, it was very calming, you know, and very like predictable, lovely, not predictable, but just like, she had this way of, this welcoming air to her.

Well, even on your podcast, she's full of energy. Oh, yeah. Like I felt like she was a self-starter. Like you, I mean, you're doing a great job over there, but you didn't have to be there, you know what I mean? You just introduced the guest and then she was going to go. Oh my gosh. She is.

Yeah. She, and she apologized to me after on the phone, she's like, I talk so much and I'll just go off. And I was like, no, no, that's awesome. That's what you want. Right? You don't want to sit there and be going to,

yeah. Being like, so how was this good. And she very quickly volunteered the mind blow because I did not, I don't think I ever caught the theme song because that voice is, you wouldn't miss that voice. But the fact that it's Ron Hawkins from Lowest at Low singing the theme song to

Giselle's big backyard, I think that is an absolute bonafide mind blow and fun fact. Can I read you a fun text that Ron sent me while you think of another question? Of course. About that song. When was this text sent? He sent it right after that episode because I told Giselle, I'm like, I didn't

know that and I'm going to text him. Okay. Here it is. So I said, dude, I just interviewed Giselle from Giselle's big backyard. Da da da da. She said you had written the song or sing it or whatever. And he wrote, ha ha. yes, I remember wandering into that studio in a black trench coat and black docks,

docks stinking of booze and terribly hung over like a true children's performer. That was the beginning of it. So I don't think he would not care to like about that story. But it's just so funny, like, right? The juxtaposition of walking into a children's studio to record a song. Yeah, it is, I guess you wouldn't think wrong doing that,

but hey, it works. It works, it's a great song. Too bad you didn't write it though. No, but hey, to have a show, like that's what I was talking with her about, for 11 years, I mean, that's almost, when do you ever see that these days? That's like almost an impossibility.

That's Fred Penner type of longevity. Totally, she had, and also she had the Wiggles on her show before they were anywhere. these days. That's like almost an impossibility. That's Fred Penner type longevity. Totally. She had, and also she had the wiggles on her show before they were anywhere. She had a bare naked ladies and their younger, you know, sort of. That would be, that would be a good fit. Early, very naked ladies with just Ellen,

the big backyard there. Yeah. Early BNL. Okay. Early BNL. I will, that's yellow tape era. And I still love that yellow tape. That yellow tape, ready for the way it all connects? Done, yeah. Fight the Power is on that yellow tape.

Oh, is it? Wait, is that also Gordon? Is that a different? No, Gordon's the one they made. That's their first full length album that comes next. So there are songs on yellow tape that appear on Gordon, Fight the Power not being one of them. But the yellow tape,

which I actually ended up owning two copies of that, which was put out by Stephen Page's dad. And that's also Stephen Page's dad also put out lowest of the lows Shakespeare, my buddy. That's so cool. And if you watch the, the great Simon head doc, I have it here. Oh, do you really? Oh, beautiful. Well, you have a DVD. Do you have a DVD player? I lend it to you because, uh, I, uh, don't have a DVD player, but this is subversives, which is the lowest of the low documentary that FOTM Simon head made.

And Steven, uh, was it, uh, Steven Pages, dad and brother are in this documentary talking about putting out Shakespeare, my butt, cause they also put out the yellow tape. Oh, that's wild. Is there, uh, there's, is there some mention of Steven Stanley? Is he on here?

Oh my God. He's all over that documentary. Of course. Uh, you know, I didn't, I don't know. There was frosty moments in those relationships, but currently they are friends again. So, uh, can I tell you a cool story about that?

So we played a show in Burlington, Steven and I back in September and Ron said, Oh, I'm buying a ticket to just come and hang out with you guys, which is so cool. And he came down and then Stephen during his performance goes, so I'm going to get Ron up to do this song together. And it's pretty sure the song you were talking about where they have that great lead a little

while tonight, which is a great song. They did this harmony back and forth before they sang it, Stephen and him both sort of talked openly to this crowd of like 40 people all crammed into the Edison room great place in Burlington by the way shout out About their feud and about how they had a long time or they didn't talk and it was very difficult But I was like even quit the band and I was like how cool is to see two grown men Talking about their beef in an open forum, it's really good and healing for people, I think.

Not to toot my own horn, but those exact conversations have happened in this basement with both Ron Hawkins and Steven Stanley. Wow. So that's cool. There you go, that's our purpose in all of this. Yeah, okay. I just missed you.

You played at the garrison for that bookie tribute night where Tragically Hip covers were performed. Yeah. When in that, I'm just trying to understand how I missed you. Like when did you hit the stage? Was it? I'm gonna say I think it was the start or maybe the start of the second set

or near the end of the first, either way. It was more towards the middle. What song did you cover from the tragically hip? It was in view. And let me tell you, it just rocked for whatever reason. It just, everything worked. And I think it was more of an upbeat song for the band. You know, it's got that really like driving do, do, do, do, do, drum beat. The star do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do do do do do drum beat the star do do do do do do do do do exactly so just everyone came up and it's one of those hip songs I think that people don't always think about but they're like oh phone rings once phone rings twice like

they know that part and so everyone was singing along with that and it just got it was one of the most beautiful moments ever coming off stage and I'd never even met him Kevin Drew was right there and he was like, dude, that was a man. Oh my God. And he gave me this big hug and yeah, it was just like everyone coming on and off doing one song, so many beautiful musicians in one room. It was unreal. Well, I'm going to ask you about one specifically in a moment.

In fact, she's playing tonight at the baby G but so that's a teaser for you, but I'll say I was there that night and Josie Dye was hosting and uh and I was soaking it all in and you're like I'm not going to watch Craven you know what it's possible I did so that night there was a big Leafs game on okay I know there's no excuse but I spent time in the parlor like in the yeah and I I was up there too I was up there too yes interesting so I saw Talia Schlanger was there. Anyways, bunch of people I know and was hanging. But my third born child was phoning me because we took a big lead in that game

and then we blew that game if I remember correctly. But he would phone me every time to leave score. And then the TV in that parlor was like, I don't know, 90 seconds behind. So I will get a phone call. I would get a phone call, which is fine, because I was trying to watch the concert, right? You know, Elliot Lefkoe and Stephen Stanley

put this together. So I would get a phone call from Jarvis, and he'll be like, you know, Tavara scored. And it would be like three, nothing or something. And then I'd go to the parlor, and there'd be dudes there, and I'd be, and the game plays going on and I'd be, I would do something like this. I'd be like, pay attention, something big is about to happen.

And then it would happen. Like it was like, I was predicting the future. Oh, that's so cool. That's fun. I was predicting the future. But I did miss a little bit because I was so preoccupied by this game. Oh, for sure.

But the woman I wanna ask you about is named Sky Wallace. Oh yeah, frig, I love Sky. So Sky Wallace is performing tonight. It's her last performance before she gives birth because she's eight months pregnant. She came on the show very recently. She's going through her sexy Prager era with her iced tea and all that.

Speaking of, we talked about Ice Cube, now it's time to talk about iced tea. But how do you know Sky Wallace? Sky, okay. So she has someone who plays in her band named Jason Jang and he plays with another band. Limb lifter. Uh, no wrong one guy.

No, Jason. Jang plays with a band called the beach men here in Toronto and they're like a beach boys tribute. They're not a cover, but they really, really do beach boy stuff. Well, and my cousin Ben is in that band. So I've played a show or two with the beach

men over time and Jason, I just knew and I was like, Oh, Jason plays with sky, but sky. And I've always crossed paths. Like I interviewed her on my podcast a while back and we always just connected like online or just sort of similar senses of humor. And I never met her until that night. So that was really fun.

And then we just were chatting. We're like, Oh my God, first time meeting. I was like, congrats. And, and then, uh, I was just at Four Winds Music Fest this past weekend where strumbells were playing, she played, and she also was on stage with strumbells doing a tune as well. I like it very much, but the first time I ever saw her was she was opening for

Lois at a Low. Oh no way. Yeah. And I invited her over to chat about it, but so it's, it's kind of funny how it all kind of. We're all connected. I mean, the Canadian music scene, it's, I think there's a part of it and it's funny that, you know, cause you're Toronto Mike and so much of it

runs through Toronto, right? Like it has to like coming from coast to coast. It's just this big hub that connects a lot of people, I think. Well, that's how Sloan ended up here. Right. From Halifax. Although it's interesting, the tragically hip.

Only Gord ended up here. The marquee and the moon. Right, yes. The clientele can go to hell if they wanna get in for free, right? Because hell was the club below the marquee. Okay, okay. The fact that we spring up at this point

is that Biff Naked even ended up here. Yeah, that's right. Where was she from? Well, she's from Winnipeg, but she lived 35 years in Vancouver. So she was based in Vancouver through her heyday and now she's in Mimico. That's all you really need to know about what's happening here. I am going to give you another gift, Graven. It's going so well and we haven't even got to your music yet.

So I have in my freezer a large lasagna from Palma pasta. Do you enjoy lasagna? Oh my gosh. Yeah, sure. I would super enjoy that. So it pairs nicely with the GLB. The best Italian food not made by Inona basically. In fact, some argue it was made by Inona because it was Palma Petrucci whose recipes that they use, the late great Palma Petrucci, the namesake for Palma's Palma pasta. But people should go to palmapasta.com and you can visit their stores in Mississauga and Oakville.

And it's delicious, man. You got a lasagna. Are they in Etobicoke too or no? No, but I do believe that you can now buy their lasagnas at some Longos. Oh, okay. So, you know, who knows what's next, but go to palmapasta.com for more.

You'll love it. So, Graven, you can report back what you think. I will. Thank you, Mike. That's so sweet. And a tip. So you live in Toronto, right? I actually live in Ottawa. So what are you doing here?

That's a long drive to come on Toronto, Mike. Well, I played a little show last night in, um, port Elgin. So up north, you know, near kind of Sobble beach area. So about a two and a half hour drive from here. So it just sort of worked time wise. And Chris, I do play in Toronto fairly often because I'm cognizant of the fact that I'm from Ottawa, but I can't just play in Ottawa as an original musician.

This city doesn't really support it. Sadly, you have to kind of go elsewhere. Um, so that explains the Tom green connection. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I met him a couple of times, but I don't who,

like he wouldn't know me, but he's just a good dude. And it all here's the link back to David Letterman. We were talking about the talk show hosts we love back in the day, the late night talk show hosts, but of course the big moment in Letterman history is Drew Barrymore flashing him on his birthday.

Drew Barrymore once married to Tom Green. That's right. And Norm MacDonald, when he had Dave on his podcast, joked about that and said, uh, well, I, what was the joke? I can't remember. He said, so you had Lauren Michaels here. What did he do? And he goes, well, I, what was the joke? I can't remember. He said, so you had Lauren Michaels here. What did he do?

And he goes, well, he got up on the table and did a go-go dance and lifted. And he goes, then Dave's like, no, no, no, no. You know, he doesn't want any nuisance, right? And he goes, well, what was it like when you had some other guests here? And he goes, he got up on the table and did a go-go day.

He just like loves embarrassed. Norm was the best. Oh, Norm is like my guiding light, I think in many ways. Well, he's another guy though, my guiding light, I think, in many ways. Well, he's another guy though, from Ottawa, who ended up here at Yuck Yucks. Mark Breslin brought him into the big show here. Mark Breslin, Mr. Yuck Yucks, yeah.

Mr. Yuck Yucks, still going strong. Yeah, he would be maybe 80 or something. 80, he's got like a, I don't even know how old the son is now, but he might be a teenager at this point, it's been a while, but If he's not a teen, he's a preteen. Yeah, so it's a going concern there. Okay, so I want to just tell you So where is this lazarette show tonight? You probably told me but where is it? Uh, it is at The monarch queen. Okay, so that's why you're in town

Yeah, i'm just in town for that to play this show with my band tonight to open. And it's a sold out album release show for the Lazarettes. I think Ron Hawkins helped them produce this record. So yeah, because when you're ready for this, when Ron and Lawrence came over to talk about their new album, this is like maybe one or two months ago, Chris Tate came over to give like unmarked bills to Ron Hawkins, like in an envelope. There was like a payment exchange that I witnessed. And the joke I said to Chris Tate, hopefully he's listening, is I said,

this is the second time you were at my studio door and I didn't expect you to be at, like the second unannounced, because the first time I thought he was gonna be the guy from Chalk Circle. Oh, that's so funny. And the Chalk Circle, first band I ever saw in concert when they played the, uh, the forum at Ontario Place and this was like 85 or so.

So would have Chalk Circle have played shows with like change of heart? It's funny you mentioned change of heart because I just, uh, put a surprise micumentary. Uh, so we're talking on a Friday, July 18. We sure are. And I'm going camping, so I'm not recording for a week.

I'm taking a week off, but I am going to have one little Mikey Mentory drop into the feed that I prepared. And it's all about a chain. It's all about change of hearts. Elbow smile from 1992. Oh, literally this is an, in, on this episode, you will hear, uh, you'll hear, uh, from the man himself, Ian Blurden. No way. Well, he was in that house band that night.

And so he, he and Anna, it was my first time playing with any of them and Judd and, uh, Jody night, Jody Brummel. So the drummer and unbelievable house band like just crushed. And I remember talking with Ian, I'd never met him before. And we're chatting outside and I said, uh, I was just watching this things we're talking about pink Floyd I'd never met him before, and we're chatting outside. Great guy. And I said, I was just watching this, we were talking about Pink Floyd for whatever reason, I said, I just watched this Jack Black interview,

and he said he's doing these things called chronothons now, where he goes for walks, and he'll listen to an artist's entire work. So he started with Pink Floyd, and Jack Black was saying, it wasn't until, I think, Dark Side of the Moon, where he started really getting interested, listening back to it now.

And Ian Blurton goes, you know what my favorite Pink Floyd album was? The first one. And then after that they all got, he was very like passionate about it. And I feel like they were called The Pink Floyd. Were they? Yeah.

What was the first record even called by that? Couldn't tell you man. Me neither. This is- I'm not a Pink Floyd fan. Before my time. Yeah. But I do think that it was called, they were called the Pink Floyd.

But I was telling that to Ian and he was like, you know what their best album was? The first one. And then it all went down. You know, some of that stuff, uh, particularly with Bernard Mesa on keyboards, it gets really psychedelic. Yes, totally. So, uh, so it's funny you mentioned Ian Blurton and change of heart because the micumentary that will drop on Monday morning while I'm camping under the stars is going to feature some Ian Blurton and it's about a very important moment in Canadian music history related to the album Smile from 1992. Very cool. So look

at this small, look at everything. Okay, so you're, I don't know how long you're in town for, but I want to tell you about a couple of things happening Saturday, if that's okay. Yeah. Unity Fest 25. We spent some time, Graven, talking about hip hop. Well, Canada's National Hip Hop Festival is back for its 17th year. You can experience countless ways to explore culture, expand knowledge, and express yourself. You don't want to sleep on Unity Fest 25. This is happening on the waterfront, Toronto's waterfront, July 19th. That is tomorrow night. That's Saturday night. Beautiful.

So maybe it's during the day. I shouldn't even say night, but go check it out online. Learn more. There's dance battles and exhibitions. You got DJs, live musical performances. There's of course food. There's a marketplace. Very cool.

You know, you can, you know, meeting greets. It's going to be a cool fest, Unity Fest 25, okay? Will Maestro Fresh West be there? Well, he's, you know, he's in New Brunswick now. Oh, right. We lost him during the COVID. You went to New Brunswick. I'm looking at, let your backbone slide, the 12 inch.

Do you see it back there? Okay, I can kind of see. Oh yeah. He autographed that for me during one of his visits. I'm a big Maestro fan. The episode of toast we talked about stick to your vision Hey, can I tell you because I saw the much music a little thing on the wall there, too Yeah, and we were talking so much about rap. I Playing in Burlington again at the Edison room. The owner goes hey this guy's gonna come by might hang out for some

Okay, I guess Michael Williams Michael Williams. Yeah, let me guess. Hey, sorry. I going to come by. He might hang out for some of your guess. Michael Williams, Michael Williams. Yeah. Let me guess. Hey, sorry. I so kindly ask, can I guess? And then you told me the answer. I totally, I heard you say, I just want you to know I was going to say Michael Williams. That's amazing.

But I was so starstruck, right? Cause I love that show. So I was just like, man, I'm a huge fan. Brian. He was just like so gracious and lovely. Well, because you said the name Michael Williams, I'm now contractually obligated to play this. No Cleveland, no Bowie.

Michael Williams on Toronto Mike. No Cleveland, no Bowie. What's that in reference to? Give me the... Well, he's from Cleveland, first of all. And he has an argument, and I don't necessarily agree with him, but he believes that without Cleveland embracing

David Bowie, there's no David Bowie as we know him today. He claims it, and he's got some compelling arguments. He was the pipeline for Bowie to USA? Yes, to break in the States. Oh, wild. Sort of the way, similarly, I suppose, Rush. Like if Rush, so do you know this story? I'll do it in a nutshell here.

So Rush had their first album, which had a different drummer. It didn't have Neil Peart, it was a different drummer. This album was kind of flopping or whatever, but they kind of independently made this first album. And there's a guy named Bob Roper, who would send albums to Donna Halper, who was working at a big Cleveland radio station and

Donna was looking for like imports like and then Bob said oh here I'm gonna send like mails her this rush album and Donna's going through the rush album and Donna hears a song She thinks that the Cleveland listenership will enjoy the song was called working man She plays it and then the request line, you know, back in the day, the request line lights up. Next thing you know, they're bringing Rush in to play live. This song is a hit in Cleveland and you can, you know, without a doubt, no Cleveland, no Rush. Unbelievable. Yeah.

That's, that's, I had Don Halper on this program to get that full story, but Bob Roper, I don't think he's done any other podcast. If you want him for, uh, your Graven, what's it called again? Graven, what's the rest of the name of your podcast? Oh, Graven Town. Graven Town, I was gonna call Gravenhurst. Why don't you call it Gravenhurst? Just kidding.

So in Graven Town, you gotta get Bob Roper, then you could be the second one to get Bob Roper. You know who I think Bob Roper is maybe spending his time with these days is Mr. Furley. Hey-o. Bob Roper got screw, and Mrs. Roper is maybe spending his time with these days is Mr. Furley. Hey-o. Bob Roper got screwed and Mrs. Roper got, I'm not Bob Roper, Mr. Roper and Mrs. Roper got screwed

because you know they left Three's Company to make the Ropers. And then who comes in? And then Mr. Furley, Don Knotts comes in. But then they canceled the Ropers pretty quickly. Yeah, they did. But they don't let the Ropers back because they got Furley in place now and he's going gangbusters. Yeah, they did. But they don't let the Ropers back because they

got furly in place now and he's going gangbusters. So really they got, they got fucked. That's a norm, uh, story that I heard him tell it because he said, he goes, yeah, Mr. Rope, the guy who plays Mr. Roper, they said, we're going to do a spin-off. It's going to be great to the Ropers. And he goes, well, if it doesn't work, can I

come back to the show? And they said, yeah, yeah, fine. And who comes in? Dawn knots. I mean, they're done. Dawn knots is, I mean, you know, it was on the Ropers comic said, yeah, yeah, fine. And who comes in? Don Knotts. I mean, they're done. Don Knotts is, I mean. You know who was on the Ropers? Comic gold.

Hank Kingsley, hey now. Oh really? He was on the Ropers. Hank, oh, Jeffrey Tambor. Jeffrey Tambor. Unreal. Was on the Ropers. He was great on Arrested Development.

Oh. Big fan. Me too, massive, massive fan of Arrested Development. Yeah. All right, another fan of arrested development. Yeah. All right. Another event I need to tell you about is happening Saturday night. If you're not all about the hip hop on the waterfront, then get your butts to Christie pits. Cause the maple leaves are playing some great baseball at Christie pits that night under the lights Saturday night. Be there. Don't miss it, man. Uh is the best value in town. No ticket required. Great baseball.

You can drink without worrying about the cops. You can crack open a can of GLB if you want on the hill at Christie Pitts. So that's where you go. I think first pitch is scheduled for 7.30 this Saturday. Get yourself to Christie Pitts. The season winds down at the end of August, so you got about a month of Toronto Maple Leafs action

before it all comes to an end. Very cool. Does anyone see being from Ottawa, winds down at the end of August. So you got about a month of Toronto Maple Leafs action before it all comes to an end. Very cool. Does anyone see being from Ottawa, does anyone ever get confused when you're talking about Maple Leafs with the hockey and baseball? Of course, because that hockey team is rather well known. So here, can I play some of your music and then we can talk about your music here? Love to. Okay. So I can't even remember the,

you speaking of the, whatever the chrono walks are, that the- The chronothon. Chronothon, okay. So I can't remember the chronological order of this. So I'm just gonna play something and you can tell me what the hell I'm playing. Go for it.

Okay. Yeah. That's in the woods of me. Early I do rise. It's like circa. Sun is barely. Yeah. What year are we talking about? This would be like 2017. I think that is barely. Yeah. What year are we talking? This would be like 2017. I think that came out. I punched the clock in side stereo guitar kicks in there.

Watch the forklifts rolling by. I worked at a lumber yard back then. Lots of lumber terminology sleeping on my mind. terminology. Sleeping on my mind, red oak slivers in my hand. The grind of the radio saw is the hard sound of becoming a man. The grind of the radio saw is a heart sound of becoming a man. Good lyric. Thank you.

Organize high piles of western red cedar Thoughts race through my mind receiver But there's no way I'm not thinking of you at the end of the day. No, there's no way I'm not thinking of you at the end of the day. No, there's no way I'm not thinking of you at the end of the day. Yeah. Someone was recently talking about this song, this whole album, it's called J-Bird, and I recorded mostly with this guy named Tom Brown

in Kempville. He sadly passed away, but great audio engineer, had just great years and was really just done in a basement in Kempville. And Tom is like friends with Jim Bryson. He's friends with lots of well-known Canadian people. He was a piper, a bag piper.

And yeah, got some great sounds on this album. When did you, Graven, realize that you wanted to perform music? Um, I had played in other people's bands for a long time and was like a guitar, okay, a guitar player, like a rhythm guitar player, and I could sing back up. I could do harmonies. I played bass. I played drums. I think I played drums before I played any of the other stuff, but I could do all of those things kind of average. But yeah, probably at a young age I took piano lessons, but I didn't really get into guitar until about

14 15 something like that Now I'm gonna play another song because I believe a very well-known Canadian songwriter and let's just say a musical icon is involved here and I want to get that story here So let's go to another Graven song. It's like this, it's like behind the music. And I like how you talk over your jam. Like it's like pop-up video.

I like that too. Yeah. This is, uh, in Joel Plaskett's studio out in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. Joel fucking Plaskett. Good dude. Good friend. I want him on Toronto Mite.

I can make that happen for you. You promise? Yeah, Good dude. Good friend. I want him on Toronto Mite. I can make that happen for you. You promise? Yeah, I do. I want it very badly. Got an algorithm for dealing with my friends. Yeah. This song is a bit like has been played on CBC and all over different spots. Been trying to work, you know, shopping around for TV and movies and stuff like that.

But yeah, it's definitely one that sort of pops indie pop rock vibes, you know. So it's called Simple Complex. And it did end up getting you into a corporate video, right? Yeah, that's right. Juniper. Yeah, my, this old friend named Kevin, I haven't talked to him for a while, but he helped connect me with this company named Juniper that he was working for and they were looking for to profile a musician. And so they, yeah, did this sort of feature

video about me. Um, I think it got some use and sort of traction here and there, but I don't know if it really did anything. It wasn't, I didn't even really get paid for it. It was just- Wait, you didn't get any money for that? No, I didn't. I was just looking to- he said, why don't you try doing this thing? And it was a really, really pro looking video. But no, I didn't get a dime. But don't you think you should be, I mean, these are big companies can, uh, I should afford to pay you for your work. Yeah. And see, this is the thing getting older and having, I have a kid,

like an eight year old daughter. And so I don't really do a lot of, uh, free stuff. No, I can, I can do the odd charity thing. Like that hip show was so much fun and different things like that were an amazing cause, but you know, uh, yes, mostly it is my job. So when people are like, you know, we really want you to come out and play this show, but we can give you some drink tickets and then we'll see. You know, I'm like, it doesn't do that. Doesn't work for me. Maybe when I was 18, but not now.

Well, do you want me to get a Lauren Honigman to write a letter for Juniper? We can see if we can get some back wages. Yeah, please. Yeah, if you want to. I'd love that. No more corporate videos for free from Graven. Matty McKechnie. Okay.

So I dig it. I'm digging it. Oh, thanks, buddy. So Joel Plaskett, how... Like, what? You just said, hey, can I work with you? No. Well, I've known Joel for a long time. Like he, I went on a tour with him just as a videographer,

like to film some stuff. And so I knew him through a mutual friend of his named Charles Austin from a band called Super Friends. You know, Super Friends? Of course. I was, I saw a member of Super Friends at the Sloan garage sale. Which member?

Name the members. Dave Marsh, Charles Austin. Is Matt Murphy in there? Yeah, Matt Murphy. It was Matt Murphy. Yeah, you guys have a similar vibe. He had his kids or something. I almost went up and I didn't know he lived in Toronto, first of all, Matt Murphy, but

he was there to see Chris Murphy. Matt Murphy, when Super Friends, forget about it, Unreal songs, and they were great. But then when he went on to do Flashing Lights, I really felt like, oh, they're going to explode. Because seeing Flashing Lights on stage and Matt Murphy doing his thing in full, like, you know, stage man persona, guy, like, they just had this this real the who kind of vibe and we're just so good but yeah you know just goes to show you it's not easy in the music world. But Joel Plaskett big fucking deal, future FOTM thanks to

Graven. Yeah I'll work it but yeah so Joel and I've been in touch. I love that song. He since doing that video for his tour, which my friend Charles helped set up, we're always in touch. And I will say about Joel, like nicest guy in the world and to this day, we will come and if he plays anywhere near Ottawa, he'll usually text me or I'll text him and say,

can, you know, he'll say, do you want two tickets for the show or whatever, like he's always, he's like a total, Bench has no ego at all and he's just like, I saw him one time talk to my friend Brendan after a show in Kingston about how he mics his amps for the show and he talked to him for like 15 minutes, just like going down this nerdy tech hole

and Brendan was just like, ah, his mind was exploding. Joel, Joel just talked to him for like 15 minutes, just like going down this nerdy tech hole and Brendan was just like, ah, his mind was exploding. Joel's a Joel, just talk to anybody. He's the greatest dude. And yeah, I'll text him and I see him when I can from time to time. And he said, he's a friend for sure. Joel's amazing, recording with him was so great. Well, you got some homework now.

Have you ever seen the movie One Week? Yes. Joshua Jackson. Not to be confused with the number one, Yes. Not to be confused with the number one, right, not to be confused with the number one Billboard Hot 100 song by the aforementioned Bear Naked Ladies. Yeah. Joel Plass gets in One Week.

Yeah, he plays a busker. Yeah. Can you name at least, can you name two other Canadian musicians who appear in One Week? Oh man. See, I saw it once, I think when it came out or I rented it or something. I saw it in theaters. Oh yeah, See, I saw it once, I think when it came out or I rented it or something. I saw it in theaters.

Oh yeah, maybe I did see it in theaters. So, oh man, I know one has a- I can help you. Wait, it's not Jen Arden, no. No. There's a female. There is a female. Yes.

I wanna say, oh man. In fact, I produce a podcast for a producer named Avi Feder Green, and Avi Feder Green, who will be on Toronto Mike himself, he's got a great story, but he takes full credit for this singer-songwriter being in the movie one week. He takes full credit, and we'll find it. Is it a, what's her name?

Davnet Doyle. Good guess. That's a good guess. Okay. In that ballpark. Man, I'm drawn to heat. Okay. I'm going to tell you now.

Okay. This is all she's an FOTM. That's not going to help you, but M Griner. Oh, you know what her name actually popped through my head for a second. Okay. M Griner is in this movie one week and also, uh, you know, we talked about you blame, uh, what song did you perform from the tragically hip again?

In view, in view. I kind of, I want to say something about in view in a minute. Gord was in it. Gord Downey. Yes, that's right. Okay. So it's M Griner, Gord Downey and Joel Plaskett in that movie one week. I mean, yeah, that's right. Okay. So it's M Griner, Gore Downey and Joel Plaskett in that movie one week. I mean, yeah, that's an insane thing. And Joel has done some incredibly cool stuff. I think for

East Coast, he's revitalized like Dartmouth, Nova Scotia used to be kind of a seedy area and he has helped really to do a lot of work to redefine that area. And it's awesome over there. I was just there in 2022 and no, I was just there last year, sorry, in 2024 in the fall to visit some friends and Dartmouth is hopping. It's like a little, it's got a vibe. It's craft breweries, all kinds of stuff going on.

It's got a vibe. This song's got a vibe here. Oh, thanks man. Now, every instrument you hear in this song's got a vibe here. Oh, thanks man. Now, every instrument you hear in this song is all played by me. You're like Billy Corrigan. Yeah, I guess. Dave Grohl. May you take the form of a tree? Prince?

Yeah, little prince. We'll name all the great artists who play all the... And there's no arguing we will make. Yeah, the song's about trees and relationships. Yeah, my thing is always like I can play enough of what I need to fit in songs but I don't know if I could play drums like with a band live like every night doing it's just I think it'd be too tedious but I for my own songs I sort of have been doing it so long that I know I think what can fit and I don't need to overplay or do anything crazy so in the studio where no one's really watching it's fine you can take as many takes you know as you want so that's

really fun and yeah this is really fun to go back and recording with Charles Austin from Super Friends way back and Halifax who kind of started my journey I did a lot of stuff on my own and he helped as well and we just played all the instruments together and This was fun to go back the last couple albums. I had different people playing You know different parts and hired session players to come in and uh, which was also great But it was nice to go back for This new record and just do

It you know gorilla style solo yolo What's the name of the new album? It's called Always Everything. Yeah, I understand it's your most downloaded and streamed album to date. It is, yeah, surprising. I've done my homework. Yeah, you have. It is, yeah, it's sort of surprising too. And, you know, I'm just an independent dude. I don't have, I mean, I have a guy who sort of helps me with booking,

but I don't have a manager. I don't really have an agent. I don't have a record label. I don't know if you're supposed to say that, but whatever. I've had some really cool things. You're fiercely independent. Yeah. And I've had some really cool things happen to me just doing it the way that I want to do it. And honestly, I was just talking with,. So I was listening to a podcast of this producer on the Tim Heidecker podcast thing. It's called Office Hours. It's really great. Anyways, he was saying this producer musician guy was on there who's about 35.

And he said he met this guy, I think in Cleveland, not mistake. Anyway, this guy was about my age, 48, and had some great songs and he pitched it to his label and he's like, I want to produce this guy's record. And the label was like, sure, yeah, that sounds good. You'll be behind it. And this guy, 35 year old, kind of got a name, can't remember his name. And then they were working on it, working on it.

And then eventually the label was like, I just think he's too old. So there's just a lot of ageism, unfortunately. Well, that's what the new Public Enemy song is about. There you go. Ageism. Yeah. It's unfortunately just a lot of ages I'm unfortunately. That's what the new Public Enemy song is about. There you go. Ageism. Yeah. It's, it's unfortunately still a lot of that. And, and I don't, you know, as much as

labels can help at my age and what I'm doing and the things I've been able to do, I can do whatever I want. Like I can play as many times as I want in a month or I can take time off. I think labels sometimes work in the sense of being kind of banks or lenders for these artists. They'll give them big sums of money, right, to go and record. It's a loan, right? Yeah, that's it.

And they got to pay it back. And then sometimes over here, you can take them two, three, four albums to pay back what they owe from the first one. I feel like it might have been Sky Wallace. I want to credit her with it. She's basically said like her performing music. Yeah. Her goal is to lose as little money as possible.

I know. It's crazy, man. And then at her level too, like she's so great. And there's so many, I mean, Stars, huge band from Montreal, I'm a huge fan. They had to cancel a huge tour recently because they were realizing they were gonna lose like 10 or 20 grand on the tour.

Okay, now I need to tell you the story. So I had Sam Roberts in the basement. Oh, nice. From Montreal. Good old Sambo. But I had secretly arranged for Amy Milan to sneak through the side door. I left the side door.

So halfway into the chat with Sam, Amy comes down to surprise Sam. So they hadn't, like they hadn't talked in a long time, but they both live in Montreal. But they, so they had to come to New Toronto to reconnect even though they both live in Montreal. Oh my God, how was that for funny? Yeah, and Torquil Campbell has also been on the program

as well, and I'm a big stars guy too. I bet Torquil would be an incredible interview. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So verbose. Well, you see, he's just, he tells it like it is. And he, he, you know, he's I'm, that's kind of

what I'm trying to do here. I don't want everyone to come in and make it sound like, oh, the Canadian music industry. Everybody's like Neil Young and Joni Mitchell here. Like, like it's kind of a mind blow when you find out that artist you love has a, like a day job. Yeah, I know. It's very sad. I I've been lucky. artist you love has a day job. Yeah I know. It's very sad.

I've been lucky. You don't have a day job. I don't really. I have some other seasonal stuff that I can do. Kind of in the winter I work at a Christmas tree farm and then I sometimes work at this camp and help out in their kitchen and do some food prep. But that's very, very on the side. Like I am lucky enough to do music, but man, I'm telling you,

I have to hustle and I have to play a lot of shows by myself. If you want to play consistently in Canada with a band, it's really tough. Because when I play solo, whatever money I make, I keep it, right? So when you're playing with a band, you got to play with people, you got to pay them,

and they're great, and you need these performers, but can I get butts in the seats, you know, these performers, but you got to get butts in the seats, sell tickets and who's buying advanced tickets to shows right now? Not many people. And they do it like two or three days before the show. I don't know why that's a trend, but if you talk

to most musicians in Canada, it feels like all the oxygen gets taken up by the Oasis is in the cold plays and Taylor Swift. It's like, so you got this like whatever 0.01% that takes up all the oxygen. Yep. That's so true. And I mean, I bet I know Toronto probably has

corporate festivals, but there's one in Ottawa called Ottawa Blues Fest. Of course. Legendary. They have green day this year and father John, the year I played 2018 is the only time I played and they had like Foo Fighters and Beck were there and people just go crazy to play at these festivals. But here's the thing, Mike, is that every

year I see, and I may be talking out of school and maybe this will not be controversial, but they'll book artists, local artists who have played two years previous or like a year previous and they don't even have any new albums out. mean Jim Bryson for God's sakes Ottawa Blues Fest get Jim Bryson back the guy hasn't played there since 2008 and I'm like how is that possible it's insanity the guy lives in Ottawa he's an Ottawa music icon and I played in 2018 so I'm good that's relatively recent I don't know I don't know I'd love to play again seven years ago I know no it's dude recent. I don't know. I don't know. I'd love to play again. Seven years ago.

I know. No, it's two, it is seven years. And I've, I put out a lot of stuff consistently and I, I'm, you know, making waves in different areas. But again, I feel like, just like what you're saying, this is the attention that people have musically on these big events, the big passes for the big festivals, the big Coldplay shows or whatever. And then they're like, oh, my budget's done for the summer. That was my thing.

All the money goes to Green Day. Yeah, exactly. Geez, where's the money for Graven? Okay, so I'm going to, Jim Bryson, by the way. Give me some of that Green Day money, friends. Just a bit. Jim Bryson is Ottawa based. You're Ottawa based.

Yeah. Is there anyone else I should be aware of who's Ottawa based? Not that I'm, anyone else I should be aware of who's Ottawa based Nothing I'm not that I'm an Ottawa Mike is there an auto That's doing like a guy named Mike would in Ottawa who is like an events guy who does a lot of stuff for people there But yeah, no, I don't think there's an Ottawa Mike. You're Well good cuz I was gonna call Lauren Hornickman and send a letter to Ottawa Mike off my turf. I love it. It's like a franchise.

Can I get Lauren on my retainer as well? Please. I love that. Listen, I've had to use Lauren, you know, doing the seven, yeah, over 1700 episodes once in a while. By the way, I was going to congratulate you on that dude because I was just listening. I'm a big listener to of Mark Maron. I don't know if you are. Well, I, I, I'm absolutely familiar with him. I've seen him as an actor and stand up and, uh, I'm well aware of him and he gets people like, yeah, WTF,

which is winding down this fall. It's winding down and he has about a little few. Did you say 1700? Yeah. Well, you are to be precise here. Uh, 1732. Unreal dude. So Mark Marin, I think is that 1640. So you even, you're going to beat him. Well, I remember when I passed him, I, uh, I said, Hey, there you go. So, uh, but you know, who hasn't visited yet.

So he gets like, you know, Obama will draw by. Oh, he gets every Marcus unreal. I love listening to him. He gets Obama. I get graven, but I'm just as happy. I'm just as proud. Thanks to have graven. I feel like you're that, you just as happy. I'm just as proud. Thanks. To have Graven. I feel like you're the, you know, you'd be

one of those guys who would be like, you would talk the same way with Obama as you would with me. That's, you know what? A hundred percent. Yeah. I would, you know, Mick Jagger or Graven get the same respect.

By the way, graven.bandcamp.com. I want to make sure I get that out there because I'm going to play one more song, but graven.bandcamp.com is where people go to support you and to buy your music. Yeah, man. And I'm going to leave you with a, I'll go walk back to my car.

It's parked over one of these, but I have a vinyl I'll give. Do you have a record player? No, but you know what? I got a lot of vinyl out here because, but I like it. Well, I'll give you one and you can put it up, you know, with these ones or something.

Cause you never know. Cause right now you see there's dream warriors. Oh, I love dream warriors. Wash your face in my sink. That's what that For wash your face in my are you serious? That's such a good song. I love that song I can't even see that it says that on it Wash your face in my sink din in it see this is like the early Canadian hip Oh my god, if we can talk early Canadian hip-hop the OG who I absolutely adore and who I'm just going to play a few seconds from her right this exact second.

Toronto, stay tuned right here with Toronto Mike's and it goes a little something like this. Hit it. Do you know who that is? That would be, is that like me? She made your son? That's me. She made no way. That's just the OG that you got to. That's just. She's the OG. Then you got to throw right in there.

You got to throw, you got to throw Maestro Fresh West right in there. This is all coming up with DJ Ron Nelson on CKLN, right? The Fantastic Voyage. And then you got to throw Rumble and Strong, shout out to Rumble. I hope you're okay, buddy.

And then of course, then you get Dream Warriors, which was by the way, recorded in DJ Ron Nelson's home studio. No way. It all connects, man. And then you're not too far there after, you got your organized rhyme. Yeah, organized rhyme, wow.

Let's give some props to organized rhyme. I mean, that's still, yeah, check the O.R. Great song. Check the O.R. Film that video, and there's a cameo in the video from King Lou in capital Q from Dream Warriors. Have you ever had Tom on here? I would love to get Tom on here. I once had a Twitter back when I was on Twitter, I had a Twitter DM exchange with

Tom green explaining what this is and why he would love it. And then it died on the vine. Then he stopped replying to me. So I don't know if he can, he, I think he lives mostly out in the country. I would let him, I would let him do zoom in. Zoom in. Okay. That's cool. I had Ashley McKay's exhuming. I would let him zoom in. Zoom in, okay, that's cool.

I had Ashley McKyza zoom in. I saw that. I had trouble getting him in the basement and it was fucking bananas, okay? You've gotta listen to Ashley McKyza. Yeah, I believe it. Oh, one more quick, I meant to say this and I'm gonna play one more Graven song

before we say goodbye, but when we were talking about Maestro, I mentioned on Toast that we played Stick to Your Vision because we were talking about eye songs, believe it or not. And I kicked out these eyes by the guest who these eyes. Yeah, that was such a great sample for that song. Perfect. Perfect.

And there's a lyricist credit on stick to your vision to a gentleman named Darren O'Brien. Does that name mean anything to you? Darren O'Brien? Yeah, It should. It should because he's also known as Snow. Oh, no way. Informer.

Absolutely. And Snow, believe it or not, is the official ambassador of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. That is so cool. Wow. You know what's funny? This is, I feel like we're all being listened to by Meta and all that stuff, but just yesterday,

I'm not even kidding you, Mike, yesterday. Yeah. There was a clip on IG that someone sent me of Jim Carrey doing. Imposter. Yeah, imposter by Snow. So there, if you go to my YouTube channel. Was that a Living Colors sketch?

Yes, it was, absolutely. But I literally, because I had Snow down here a few months ago. Right. And I played him imposter and I had the camera on him, like it's on you, and of course I put on YouTube just Snow reacting to listening again. He heard it at the time, but.

He'd never heard it? No, he heard it at the time. Oh, he'd heard it before, okay. But he heard it again, and he reacted, so when Jim Carrey makes a, well, he would say, that's a punch, this is what Snow would say, that's a punch, that's a punch, This is what snow is saying. That's a punch. That's a punch.

And you watch snow reacting to imposter. He quite likes Jim Carrey and imposter, but that happened in this basement a few months ago. Wow. I got another gift for you. Okay. Measuring tape from Ridley funeral home. Are you serious? Ridley funeral home has, uh,

always wanted a measuring tape from near dead people. Well, they're, they're pillars of this community and they have a great podcast called life's undertaking and I highly recommend it. I also highly recommend recycle my electronics dot CA because Graven, if you have old electronics, old devices, old phones, who knows

what you got going on in Ottawa there? Don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill and go to recycle my electronics.ca put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it off to be properly recycled. You got it, Graven? I got it. Thanks, man.

Yeah, that's a fun music quick music magic Jordan Murphy this guy from out east playing drums on that song everyone from out east named Murphy I think everybody is Chris Murphy Matt Murphy Jordan Murphy and the Murphys are a well-known family that live on PEI too yeah they're everywhere out there and the but, I was told by Rob Butler who won the World Series with the Blue Jays in 1993 and now coaches the aforementioned Toronto May Believes that all the butlers come from Newfoundland. Oh, I wouldn't be surprised. Okay, so what album is Magic Music Magic on? This is on Simple Complex as well, the one. Okay, so I should have closed with the one, right? Because that's the new, the new one. Yeah, if you want to, but yeah.

Amateur hour over here. What am I doing? No, but it's great. I love that you went all around because I, you know, it's nice to actually hear your stuff in the background. It's like, I was talking to Jill Barber about this, not to name drop. No, I like it when you name drop. Matt Mays as well on my podcast, both asking them, when you guys work on albums, don't

you get kind of ear-deaf to your own stuff? Like, is there a point where you've listened to it too much and you just don't want to hear it anymore? Right. And they're both in different versions said, yes, it's true. But you know, it's like, you can come back to it later with a new appreciation and you're kind of like, oh yeah, oh interesting. Oh yeah, sort of like that.

There's just a point where you're getting ready to put it out, where you've listened to the song so many gosh dang times that it's nice to hear it now in a different setting. I've never recorded any music, thankfully, but I tell you sometimes that you're in the room for an episode And it like I just did this with a guy named JD bunkus where I'm in the room And there's a different energy than you're kind of used to and then you're like, okay I don't know how that sounds so what I literally do is I kind of I know it's hard to do because you're always yourself But I'm gonna listen to it like it's not me Like so I listen to JD bunkus on Toronto Mike as if I wasn't Toronto Mike,

which is almost impossible, but I just, just like, how does it sound if you're just a guy, maybe you're mowing the lawn or you're a bike rider, a drive, and you're listening to a podcast. So maybe you get so close to something you're in the room, you need to sort of step back and look at it from a different perspective. Oh, for sure. Mike. And, you know, I've talked to some younger artists recently who are, you know, as I meet,

travel and play on the road, people who want to put out their first record, who haven't done, you know, I've released something like 24 or five things like EPs and albums and singles and stuff now, but you know, they'll say, what do you recommend I do? And I think there's a lot of magic with magic. There you go. you know, they'll say, what do you recommend I do? And I think there's a lot of magic. There you go. There's a lot of pressure for people who want to, that's from the music video.

There's some like cheering in the background. It is from the music video. So the, a lot of artists will say, what do you think I should do for my first record? And I'm blah, blah, blah. And I was talking to this female um, female singer songwriter from Prince Albert County and she's talking about, you know, wanting to record with this person and that person and whoever else.

And I just think my advice is always like, just get something out there because no matter what you're going to look back on it, it's your first thing. And there'll always be things about it. You don't love, but you'll grow from it and then you'll do the next thing. You know, I think sometimes artists can be too precious about the work that they put out. It's like, just get it out there. And the people who love it are going to love it. And they're not going to listen to it as intently as you are anyway.

So, but yeah, just, uh, have fun, record a record, record a single, record a few songs. You've inspired me. I'm going to record something next week. I did right back in the day. I wrote some, uh, record a few songs. You've inspired me. I'm gonna record something next week. I did right back in the day. I wrote some rhymes. Well, maybe I'll record my first hip hop album here. Do it. Grave in Town is the podcast.

And how often do you drop new episodes? Man, I try to do one every Tuesday, but you know, that just doesn't happen with my schedule. So I'd say it's about twice or maybe three times a month. How'd you get Giselle? Giselle's big backyard, your most recent guest is Giselle. I listened to it, I learned about Ron Hawkins singing the theme song, that was a mind blow.

But did you pursue Giselle because you had that period in your life where you found some comfort in that show? I think I do. Or did Giselle say, please talk to me, I'm curious, how did Giselle, it's just a name I haven't thought of in a long, long time. I'm pretty sure I reached out to her just saying, hey, uh, I'm, I've always been a fan. You know, I have this podcast. It's just audio only over and I just record her over the phone.

So I have a microphone underneath the phone and I put it on speaker and it comes out, you know, I know, right? It's not bad considering. It's pretty great. So why not just record a zoom? I hate because I hate there's something about zoom. The, like the sound of it. I can hear like the digital pixelation. You can hear the bits and the bytes.

It's weird. So with phone, you at least get it coming through like a speaker and you can mic up that speaker nicely. I find anyway. Well, you know, I liked what I heard with, uh, thank you with Giselle. And then you've had, again, we've talked a lot about them, but you've had Ron Hawkins on the

show. So these are some big, some big names have been, uh, on Grave in town. Matt Mays and my hundredth episode is coming up. So I'm nowhere near you Mike, but, uh, I'm getting there and I'm, I, uh have someone's special planned for episode 100 that I'll tell you about off air. Oh, you're coming off air.

Is it Chuck D from Public Enemy? No. Is it Flavor Flav? No. All right, I can't wait to find out about episode 100 and when is that dropping? Approximately. You know, probably maybe in two, three months,

something like that. Okay, very exciting. By the way, you can't get to episode 1733 without going through 100. You know this, right? Yeah. Like, I mean, at some point I celebrated episode 100, so.

That must've been fun. So at 100, were you like, Oh, I don't know if I'm going to keep doing this or were you like loving it at that point? Well, I only figured out what I was doing at about episode 60 something. I feel like, I feel like until Jonathan Torrance came over.

Oh, cool. And I feel like that episode. JonoVision. JonoVision. And I wanted to talk about street sense, really. Yeah. You know, but we had a good chat and it's funny cause he, he wrote me an email cause he Googled Toronto podcast studio and he ended up on my site

and he wanted to like record Taggart and Torrens with Jeremy Taggart at my studio was like early days it might've been. And then I said, well, I really don't do that. I do it now, believe it or not. But back. It might've been, and then I said, well, I really don't do that. I do it now, believe it or not, but back then I didn't do it. I just said, Hey, but why don't you come over

for an episode of my podcast? And he like, he was, he took a cab over. He was in town at the CBC or something. Oh, and I, that's kind of like a big moment in this podcast. And that's absolutely, I think that's episode 60 or something, but that's like when I realized, oh, I think I know what Toronto Mike is, but it took a while to get there. You have to do it to figure out what it

is. Cause now you know what Gravintown is, right? You're right. Yeah. It's mostly music, mental health focused. And I, I sometimes I love like, unlike you, you do a lot of guests, I think. Or do you do solo ones too?

Uh, no, I mean, I'm, I can't, it's possible there's a solo or two in the 1733, but I really don't do many solos. What you call micumentaries, right? Yeah, once in a while. See? See? That's true, which is like. I'm a fan.

A package, and that's coming out on Monday. You're gonna learn about something that happened on Smile from Change of Heart. And this is about Ron and Dawn. Was there a micumentary on Ron and Dawn? No, that was just, no, that was one guest, John Wing, who joined me. Oh, okay. And then we kind of walked through the ongoing history

of Ron versus Don. So cool. Because there's been new developments, thanks to Gare Joyce. I love it. I think maybe this weekend there'll be more from Gare Joyce on this topic. And this all started with Don Cherry

selling his cottage on Wolf Island. Wow. Because Don's a, he's a Kingston guy. Yeah, that makes sense. So there was a story there and then it branched out to this whole exit strategy, Ron McLean, and this near, I don't know how close to death he was, but this health problem, pneumonia, I believe, that 85-year-old Don Cherry,

you're gonna hear in the rest rest of that Ron versus Don, you're going to hear it all there. Enjoy that. I enjoyed this. How was this for you, Graven? It was so great. Thank you so much, Mike. You're a awesome guy to talk to. And we have so many connecting like timelines and topics. It was so fun. Yeah. A lot of connections from a Steven Stanley, Chris Tate to Chris Brown,

to Ron Hawkins, to Sky Wallace. from Stephen Stanley to Chris Tate to Chris Brown to Ron Hawkins to Sky Wallace. And if you get to episode 2000, I wanna be your 2000th guest. Oh, I can't commit to that. I'm just kidding. Well, we'll see if you deliver Joel Plaskett first. Yeah, maybe he can be, yeah. No, I'll definitely talk to him for you.

He's great. He's a nice man. All those Maritimers are nice, right? So nice, yep. Have you ever met an asshole from the Maritimes? Though they don't exist. I don't think yeah, what about Brad Marsh and Yeah, he might be he just seems like you want him on your team though. Yeah He's probably an asshole when he's going against your team Yeah, if he was a maple leaf, we probably think he was a sweetheart. Oh my god if he was on the leaves

Maple Leaf, we probably think he was a sweetheart. Oh my God. If he was on the Leafs, oh man. I know. It'll be interesting when the Panthers play their first game in Boston next year. Yeah. On his return. Oh my God.

Well, I really hope everything works out with the Leafs. Being an Ottawa guy, obviously I have an allegiance to the Sens, but I have no horse in the race with hockey. And I was always just hoping for Canadian teams to go on. So I wanted the Leafs to go on, but I was glad at least the Sens won a couple games. Like, thank God. You know, we've had- We didn't want it to be a sweep.

Let me see it. We had five series in our, in this new iteration of the Sens. There's been five playoff series between the Leafs and Sens and the Maple Leafs have won all five. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I know I'm right. Cause I watched them all. But you didn't, you didn't watch the old ones where the Sends. Well, I don't know, like, cause they had a team back in like, I don't know, the

late 1800s or early 1900s or something. Right. Oh yeah. Like, like I don't even know. Like there were no Leafs. I guess we had the, uh, the arenas. Right. And then the St.

Patrick's and then the Leafs. I got to go dig into the history books. So is that true that every time the Sens have played the Leafs in the postseason, the Leafs have won? Yeah. Five and all for the Leafs. Yeah. I thought there was an early Sens

team that played the Leafs that went onto the cup. No, that didn't happen. Nope. Okay. They didn't play the Leafs. That team didn't go through the Leafs. No. Oh, because the Leafs weren't in the playoffs then, right?

It was, but that's, it depends. I can't remember that era, but yeah, the, the Sens had some great teams, of course, with Daniel Effortson and everything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But they've never beat the Leafs in a playoff series in the modern era. They haven't, but you know what?

They've been closer to a cup more recently than the Leafs. That's true. I'm sorry. No, don't apologize. And that, that brings us to the end of our 1,732nd show. 1732. Wow. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. If you want to support the great Graven,

go to graven.vancamp.com and see him in concert. He's playing a bunch of gigs with Stephen Stanley and he's actually sold out tonight. So don't try to get a ticket, but opening for the Lazarettes and FOTM Chris Tate tonight. Yeah. And graven.ca if you want to check my website, graven.ca. graven.ca. And the bandcamp is great too, cause you can buy all this stuff there. So thank you so much. Thanks Mike. This has beencamp is great too, cause you can buy all the stuff there. So thank you so much.

Thanks Mike, this has been really great. Well thank you and much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto's Waterfront BIA, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Recycle My Electronics.ca, Building Toronto's Skyline and Ridley Funeral Home. I'm not recording for a week, but there will be the micumentary that's gonna drop I think Monday. And then the next recording in a week's time is FOTM Hall of Famer, Stu Stone, back in the basement.

Can't wait to catch up with Stu. See you all then.