Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Gregor Chisholm and Keegan Matheson: Toronto Mike'd #1465

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

In this 1465th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Toronto Star's Gregor Chisholm and MLB.com's Keegan Matheson about their relationship, the Shohei Ohtani phantom flight fever dream, and the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Yes, We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1465 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. The best baseball in the city outside the dome, with Rod Black's mustache returning for the home opener at Christie Pitts on May 12th.

RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. The Advantage Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada. Valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed and focused on long-term success. Season 6 of Yes We Are Open. A Monaris podcast hosted by FOTM Al Greggo and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to Toronto, Mike, is Gregor Chisholm

and Keegan Matheson. Welcome to you both. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for having us. When and where did you guys first meet each other? Thanks for having us. When and where did you guys first meet each other? Man, a coffee shop across from the Rogers Sportsnet studios, I guess. Yeah, who picked that coffee shop? Probably me. I was interning at Sportsnet briefly in late 2016.

And during this three month internship, I think a month into it, I got the MLB internship. So those last two months of the sports net internship, they probably didn't get their well, zero dollars worth. So, uh, doesn't break my heart too much. But, um, yeah, I remember Gregor was the blue Jays reporter at MLB.com then. And I was interviewing for the internship that year. And I believe a coffee shop across the street. Yeah there is a internship that we had kind of every year that they don't do anymore at MLB but there is a lot of good people came through that program

Arden's Welding was was the first intern I had. Jamie Ross he's the sports editor of the Globe and Mail he did a couple years with this. Ali Khan who's now social media manager with the Jays he was was part of that program too. It was really, it was a really good program. So Keegan, were you at Baseball Toronto, your venture back then? That wasn't then yet. I did... Pre-Baseball Toronto. Pre that. I did the one year internship then Baseball Toronto was in between. In between when I came back to MLB.com when Gregor moved to the star, so it's been interconnected like that, but yeah, that

was before those glory days with an ask risk, whatever you want to call them, but yeah before I was making those millions at baseball, Toronto and you're both elegant music for this hold on guys. I'm very, very unprofessional there we go, but we do have a song for this. but we do have a song for this. Oh, the year was 1778. I wish I was insured. I feel like I should be drinking even though it is you want to drink 10 or four a.m. Like I have fresh Great Lakes beer in the fridge upstairs.

I would totally get you guys started on a story and I could run up. I'm serious. You could have a logger, an ale or an IPA. What would you like? I'll hold off for now I'll go against my brand but I'll definitely be introducing myself to these tonight I'm looking at yeah you're bringing that home with you so thank you Great Lakes Brewery actually I did get a note about this let me get to the notes and we'll set everything up here it is Philip Parkinson who wrote in when he heard you two were gonna be on together and said, you're gonna need a lot of GLB.

So I had Great Lakes beer all ready for you and then I realized we're recording at 10 a.m. and I wasn't sure if it was gonna be like coffee time. Gregor, do you drink beer? I do. I should have thought about this more. I would have planned a little bit. I would have not drove Keegan here today.

I would have forced him to drive or something. And okay, so I'm playing this song because you're both maritime. So Gregor, remind me, whereabouts did you grow up? St. John, New Brunswick, the bustling metropolis of St. John, New Brunswick. No, Maestro Fresh West lives there now. He does, he does.

It's every time I go home, there's a lot of talk about him because he's like the kind of like the local celebrity there now. He was hosting that show on CBC down there too I think he does a radio show there it doesn't get much bigger than maestro MAESTRO like that's a big deal yeah yeah hundred percent so it's from Scarborough to st. John there and of course what is it Halifax where are you from Keegan I grew up in New Glasgow which is about an hour and a half from Halifax and then lived in Halifax until

I moved here I went to university in Halifax, lived there for a couple of years. The best city in Canada. Secret's kind of out on it, so it's expensive now. I think a bunch of city folks moved east and ruined it. But- Did Scott McArthur move out there? He did, he's not part of the problem.

We love Scott. But he did. He's got great hair. He does. And I'm so jealous. It does make me happy because I feel like we're balancing one another now You know like somebody needed to to go back and get the good side of this conversion

But yeah, he's a true Nova Scotian now, which brings me so much joy Yeah, I mean him and Griff have a podcast I listen to and they're both FOTM like you too But when you guys met here in Toronto, it sounds like that coffee shop How quickly do you bond over your maritime-ness? Like is there some kind of like a secret handshake and it's like you're gonna have each other's back because you're from... how did Tobias von put it? He said it's down home day in the basement. Hey, I was really just hoping it would get me a job frankly. Yeah, it got his foot in the door that's for sure. It didn't hurt. With that MLB internship too, we had like Jamie was a

maritime-er. We've had a few kind of maritime-ers come through the Jays beat It didn't hurt. With that MOB internship too, we had like Jamie was a Maritimer. We've had a few kind of Maritimers come through the Jays beat over the years. So it's kind of interesting that way. There's definitely a little bit of a brotherhood at least, even though I like to make fun of Keegan for being more. He's more of the country Maritimer. I like to think of myself as like the city boy.

Yeah, Gregor's a very soft Maritimer. Well, I was gonna say, I was watching Gregor for his reaction to this song. He doesn't have that same response you have Keegan like when I played the song It's kind of like a dog whistle for Maritimers like you play it and then all of a sudden everybody in the bar who's from the Maritimes Finishes the line or whatever. There are a lot of us though. I'm trying to think of all like a rash is from Truro Yeah, Trouro a rash. Madani Kenny Reid is from my county from Sportsnet right all FOT FOTM. Dan Robertson, formerly voice of the Canadians,

now voice of the Winnipeg Jets, I believe on the radio. He is from my County, like just our small area. We, yeah. Rob Longley's got a bit of a maritime connection. I didn't know that, okay. He does, he's a half maritime. We round up, he's an honorary. And yeah, no, it's, I think we,

I always say that we just never shut up and some of us make use of it, I guess, eventually. But where does this love for the Blue Jays? I mean, is baseball huge in the Maritimes? Like how popular is baseball? I mean, baseball's pretty popular in the Maritimes. I mean, when I grew up, certainly Boston Red Sox were a big kind of, there's a big fan base there. That kind of goes goes back a long time even before like the Jays were around like a lot of my people were my parents age and stuff I grew up rooting for the Red Sox but there's there's definitely a huge contingent of baseball fans out there and I mean New Brunswick is in particular a little bit was a baseball

hotbed for a little while you got Real Cormier, Matt Stairs like we actually we actually produced more baseball players there for a while than than hockey players So there's certainly there's certainly an interest there. So it was I don't know it keeks I it was I would say that it's big. It's big There's lots of like men's leagues to like where people play at a level that's not just kind of slob ball Like slow pitch like people play semi competitively later. I remember when I was coming up, cause what am I now, 33, I came up and Sidney Crosby's a couple of years older than me and I feel like when he turned into

what he turned into, that's when like summer league hockey officially took over everything. And that's when you kind of officially all the way lost your best athletes in the summer. So, and I know it was already heading that way and this is everywhere, but I think I noticed it when I was coming up that you played baseball till 12 or 14,

but then the really good kids were hockey, hockey, hockey. Which is fine, hockey's not my number one jam, but baseball's definitely, especially in the more rural areas, and I think a lot of men's league, especially up through Cape Breton, they would always send a team to the Little League World Series a lot of years. Yeah.

Every time I went across the causeway to Cape Breton, we would just get our ass kicked. It was terrible. But, uh, well you had to get mad stairs, I feel like. You can just start it and end it there. And, uh, just checking in on the live stream, because we're live at live.tronellmike.com. Ian is noticing that Gregor, even sitting down in the, you know, the TMDS studio here, you're almost hitting the ceiling, right? Like there's not a lot of clearance. So you're 6'6", right?

Yeah, 6'6". Okay, cause you know, when Leo Roudens was down here a couple of times and he's probably the tallest guest I've ever had on this program, he sort of does, he lies down almost, like he's so reclined, he's like melting into the chair, but you're sitting upright and there's not a lot of clearance between your top your head into the ceiling this is one of the only times I'm ever standing upright

usually I've got the big lean too it's cuz I'm trying to I'm trying to make sure I actually know I see you're talking to the microphone and you're trying to we can move that back like we can no no I'm good but I was gonna say you're probably you know you're here with Keegan Matheson like that puts everybody on their a game they want wanna impress Keegan, right? You don't wanna let Keegan down and deliver a subpar performance. The nation are watching.

What was your reaction, you two, when I invited you on together? Because I would normally set up the season, probably with you, Keegan, we've done it a few years in a row, where you come in just before opening day or just after opening day and we set things up, sometimes directly on your way home from Florida. But this time

I wanted to like mix it up. I'm like, no, I want it because I know you two are so involved professionally and kind of interconnected that way and good friends. I'm like, no, I want Gregor and Keegan in the basement. So when I sent out the invitation, was it like an automatic yes or did like Keegan, did you have to talk Gregor into it? Like what was the response? I mean, I had to think about it for a couple of minutes because I knew that last week we had a big semi-final matchup in our fantasy basketball hoop. So I didn't know if we were actually going to be on speaking terms this week. So it was a little trepidation. Well, you know, he did beat me. So I lower myself to, and I'm now in the finals against is he a friend of the

show Ryan Wolstat from the not only he's a great FOTM and every time I have and I gotta tell Ryan this if he's listening classified yeah from the Maritimes scheduled to be in the basement in only a couple of weeks he's gonna be sitting we've got a classified connection right here yeah my partner here cousin is married to classified so if he's he's part of the Heidi Martin, the Martin clan in Prince Edward Island. So there is a- That's amazing. Yeah.

That like, you have a connection. I'm like, oh, he went to high school with them or something. That's a wild connection. Yeah, no, we've had a few, there's been a couple of Classified concerts that they brought the whole family out for in PEI. There was a New Year's Eve a couple years ago at the Delta in downtown Charlottetown. That was our big night out. So there's, you have all these young kids running around and then you have all of Heidi's family who'd be kind of off to the side in this little area and everybody would be like 45 and up.

I'm a big classified fan, like from boycott in the industry way back, love classified. And I just checked my calendar. so it's April 23rd that morning classified in person making his Toronto Mike debut I bring it up not not just because you're Maritimers because Ryan Wolstat is and I don't know if I don't know if classifieds his jam he's more of like a Wu-Tang guy but he is 90s hip-hop like a 90s hip-hop is Ryan's jam like he came over kicked out his favorite 90s hip-hop and definitely an F.O. He's an encyclopedia so it's me and him in the finals but I handled Gregor quite easily in the semis not only because of the talent on my roster but just because of the the culture I've built

I think as an organization it comes right down through the coaching staff the training staff even the security staff comes down knowing names and treating people like they're part of the family. That answer right there is why I was thinking about not coming. I subject myself to that. Yeah, Gregor's probably spent enough time around me over the years. I've heard this spiel before. But you know, it's um, yeah, we at least, you know, it's not as sick of me as he probably once was, but we did just have to cover that opening series in Tampa together Which meant some some long days at the ballpark and some long evenings at the local family restaurants Wow Okay, so we're gonna you know, we'll

Spice it up with different, you know stories you guys have about each other in your relationship But as we sort of talk about the 2024 Blue Jays, but I want to let people know But as we sort of talk about the 2024 Blue Jays, but I want to let people know, Greg Orr has been here before. It is not his Toronto Mike debut. He was here in September 2019. That was episode 512. Mike chats with Toronto star Blue Jays columnist Greg Orr Chisholm about his career in sports media, the Blue Jays, donairs and Stone Temple pilots.

You're a big STP fan? Yeah, I was, yeah, for sure I'm an STP fan. I was a big, multiple times I went to see STP open for another band, just I wanted to see them, even though they weren't the headliner. Oh, interesting. I saw them on the very kind of last tour before things really fell apart.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Yeah, we lost Scott Weiland there. But the band continues, right? They're still going with a different lead singer. They are. They also had the lead singer for Linkin Park for a little while who tragically passed away as well. Chester Bennington. I think they're still going even after that. Lots of shouts out to Ridley Funeral Home here.

But Gregor Jams are a big problem on our beat. Tell me the difference between your jams. Like Gregor, what are your jams? Oh, my jams are like 90s alternative grunge for sure. That's like Alice in Chains. Stone Cold Plows. Who also continue with a new lead singer. They do. jams. Oh my jams are like 90s alternative grunge for sure. That's like Alice in Chains. Who also continue with a new lead singer. They do. I saw them open for Velvet Revolver with the lead singer with Scott Weiland. There you go. It's all interconnected. Okay so Greg I'm gonna look you in the eyes because you're gonna pledge something to me this I want this very badly. At some point maybe late summer or something will you come

back and kick out the jams with me? Yeah of course. That'd be a great idea. Now Amy's alt rock I'm so excited. I feel like I've witnessed that episode a few times already because if if you are at a bar with Gregor and there is a jukebox at some point he's just going to disappear and you're going to see his six foot twelve frame lurched over a jukebox in the distance and then normally it's usually it's gonna start with Rooster is gonna come on first. Love Rooster so much. And it's, yeah, it's like the same 10, 15 song playlist is about to just creak out of that jukebox.

Angry Chair, oh my god, listen, we could, we're gonna do this for that jam kicking episode, Gregor, but you and I, I think we have, it's gonna be a lot of, like in the Venn diagram, I think our jams are gonna have a lot of overlap. I can't wait for that. Keegan, you've kicked out the jams, but I'll just point out your debut was in February 2018. So you got in there before Gregor that was episode 306 Mike Chadsworth Keegan Matheson about his new venture baseball Toronto, some guy named Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

And some guy named Bo Bichette who hadn't even, I don't even know if they had played yet in 20, two of those three things worked out. Well, we'll see. Maybe you without baseball Toronto, there's no MLB.com for you, but then we also did kick out the jams that day. So we already, people can go back then and hear your jams. Remind me of the story. I got to play a song.

Bruce Dobegan was here yesterday and he wanted to play a song about Maritimers going to Alberta for work. And they would do two weeks on two weeks out. and then he found out you guys were coming on you wanted me to play it for you and ask you what you think but before I do that remind me professionally how you guys intersected like is it so Greg or was leading mlb.com for a Toronto Star gig and maybe that in and maybe recommended you yeah sort of I mean it started a little bit before it started with the internship at MLB when we met at that

coffee shop and we decided to bring him on as the associate reporter for that year. And then, I mean, Keegan was in a similar boat to me when I was an associate reporter with MLB back in like, oh, five, oh six, or you're just kind of trying to find your pathway to, to kind of stick around for a little bit until like certain things open up.

And so there was a bit of a domino effect there. I mean, Richard Griffin, leaving the Toronto Star to go work for the Blue Jays and PR was the first domino that fell. And then I went and started talking to the star and eventually made the decision to go there into a bit of a different role. And then that opened the door for Keegan. And I mean, it's kind of similar to how I even got started really. I mean, I needed the domino effect back in the day. Jordan Bastion was the Blue Jays reporter for MLB.com. He ended up wanting to move to the States. He took a job in Cleveland.

That opened up the job for me. So I mean, a lot of this stuff is being right time, right place. I mean, both of us kind of grinded to get here, too. I'm not denying that. But there's a certain amount of luck involved in Keegan. Timing-wise, it kind just, everything kind of worked out perfectly that year for both me and him, I think.

Yeah. So Gregor, when are you going to make the jump to the Toronto Blue Jays and be their new media guys? Is that in the cards? I don't think that's in the cards. I don't think that they are exactly beating down my door to try and bring me in as PR either. I don't know if that moves out.

They could be under new management at some point. It could be beating down your door for different reasons. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it was a lot of timing, which I'd like to say it's about being good, but that's 5% of it sometimes. Good timing. And I remember the part I didn't say out loud as much when I was doing Baseball Toronto was that it was my way to stay as, you know, the number one prospect, if you could. I always thought, even if you didn't make a dime on that project, like it basically, you're getting,

I guess you get a media pass and you get to cover the team, like you're there. A way to stay afloat. And then it was always waiting for, like Gregor said, kind of that domino effect. And God, has there been one since? I'm still kind of the young-ish guy on the beat, which is sad and stale, and I wish was not the case, but it's been a while.

You don't get many of those domino effects anymore, and I don't know if we will again, but it came at the right time. I remember at that time I was cards maxed out, broke as hell, getting really close to having to give up on this. You know that's a movie I think. I think we got to make the movie the Keegan Matheson story. There we go. Who would play you? It was a pretty depressing scene though. I don't know it'd be like a dark comedy I think. Yeah Gregor had a front row seat to the less glamorous era of all of that. I think I kept the outside looking a little more polished, but, you know, under the water. Whoo. It would be a very dark comedy.

Well, you fooled me. But now it's time to just that's the trick. Deliver the real talk. So no bullshit on this program right here. I can tell you what I can help feed you now. I don't I'm not I know MLB dot com actually does pay you. But I am going to send you both home, each of you home with a large meat lasagna.

Greg, are you a vegetarian? No, I am not. Not even close, right? No, not even close. You don't even want to touch the meat is probably like eighty five percent of my somebody took me off about that. Somebody just said, oh, man, you should see his what he eats. Like he eats like a high school kid.

That's probably Bob Elliott. Bob Elliott loves to talk about how he. It might've been Bob Elliott. Bob Elliott, who I always tell the story, but when Bob, like the first time he visited, he's at the door of double fisting diet coke. And I'm thinking, what a nice guy. He brought me a drink. Like, you know, so I think, well, that's nice. You know, he's down here. We're talking. It's great stories, as you can imagine. And he's drinking a diet coke. And I'm like, oh, he's okay. He's down here Michael. We're talking it's great stories as you can imagine and he's drinking a diet coke I'm like, oh, he's okay. He's not giving it to me any finishes the diet coke and he pops open the second one and takes It down. I'm like, oh it wasn't for me at all. Like they're both for him the man Crushes diet cokes. Yeah, that can't be good. I mean, I don't know. There's no probably I'm speaking out my ass here

But is there any science behind can that be good for you? I probably not recommended but maybe there's no evidence You know definitely can't be good. I mean it's better than crushing IPAs. We talked about Lane Staley earlier. There are definitely worse vices out there than Diet Coke. Okay, so I'm gonna play this jam because Bruce Dobe again told me to. But you got the lasagna from, sorry, the lasagna is from Palma Pasta. From Palma. Fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery love Great Lakes you each have by the way you guys are getting a lot of swag today for April there's a measuring tape there it is over there from Ridley Funeral Home pillars of this community

since 1921 okay this is exciting because it's only the second time I got to do this uh recent in 2024 but you each have a wireless speaker well high quality Bluetooth wireless speaker. That's a gift from Monaris. The card kind of explains more about it in that code. Their QR code allows you to easily subscribe to yes, we are open because season six is dropping and they went to Calgary, Al Gregor, the award winning podcaster went to Calgary and he's talking to small businesses about, you know, their trials and tribulations and overcoming obstacles and how they succeed.

And those great stories are told in this wonderful free podcast. Yes, we are open season six. You guys got to subscribe. You got the QR code. No, listen on my, my box. And I like the name of this box box. And you don't have to stop the music tonight. It says in the back, I'm a fan of good branding, I like this. Shout out to Gordon Sumner, aka Sting. I want to get the name of this cafe, River Cafe. So the Sal Howell and her staff at River Cafe on Prince's Island in downtown Calgary.

So that is not in Prince Edward Island, That is Prince's Island in downtown Calgary. It's an amazing story of resilience. So check that out. And while you're subscribing to podcasts, the Advantage Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, now Keegan that you're making the big bucks and you're not living out of your cars. You can get best practices and good advice

from the experts on the Advantage advantage investor podcast from Raymond James Canada. Later, I'll revisit these big hardcover books because I want to do a little bit of a deeper dive into another professional baseball team in the city that you may have heard of. But here's a song. It's just a little bit because I promised Bruce Dobe again. Do you guys know Bruce Dobe again? I feel like I know the name. Do I? I've never met him, but I do know. He used to write for the Globe and he was at CBC for many years

and then he went out West. But just a taste of this, because this band is called the East Pointers. One day morning on S18 Another West trip by, YYG to Calgary I always knew she'd get used to me leaving Sunday A lot less words now, her tears have run dry I can tell by the way she doesn't hold me it's tough

And she's thinking maybe she's better off alone Nobody warned me Nobody told me I'd leave there so broken Come back so lonely I'm killing my soul for the life that I'm leaving behind Two weeks on it So it's a great song. It's all about maritime-ers who would take the WestJet to, I guess, Fort McMurray and other places where there's jobs in Alberta, and they would do two weeks on, two weeks

off. And I'm curious, like, you guys got buddies you went to high school with who do that. They go to Alberta, make money, come home to the Maritimes. Any experiences like that in your friend circle? Everybody, yeah. It was such a common thing. I mean, when I was growing up, there were some parents, there were some dads who were like friends of high school kids. There were dads of high school kids that I went to school with,

who did that. And then especially kind of when I went off to university, there was a good chunk of my buddies would do that. It was always, I don't know, I never knew what to think of it. That's a tough life, man. Like they'd be picking up for two weeks, heading out there, come back, get about a week off,

go back out and just kind of do that vicious cycle. But they made some cash while doing it. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, it's got to be tough though on the... Serious cash. Tough on the relationships, tough on... Tough to do that. But this is a common place.

This is a song about it. And I was just thinking, okay, so we lost Joe Flaherty. The news came out yesterday. And that got me to the SCTV parody of Going Down the Road, the Donald Shabib book about maritime coming to Toronto for jobs, Basically what a, what a great freaking movie, but the parody Joe Flaherty plays like a, like a doctor who's going to Toronto, there's doctor in jobs in Toronto and the song that they play, of course, is stomp and Tom Connors. There's a rainbow in Toronto where the

maritime are bold. They, they always get a pop full, but they never get a pot of gold and you guys are, you never get a pot of gold. And you guys are, you guys have the pot of gold. Like you two are shining examples of Maritimers who came to Toronto for the jobs and you got them. Couple sellouts. There's not many jobs, think about it. There's not many jobs in mainstream media to cover the

Toronto Blue Jays, Canada's only major league baseball team. And you two have a couple of those very rare jobs. You did it, man. Yeah, there's less by the year, it seems like. Yeah. There's, there's, oh, I don't know how I should properly say it. Yeah, there's- Real time. There's fewer by the year, I guess.

Fewer actual reporters covering the team. It doesn't come with the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Yeah, but we're rich in life experiences. But do you both, if you live in Toronto. Yes. Yes. That's a pot of gold right there, buddy. It is. It costs a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But we're rich in life experiences. But do you both, do you live in Toronto? Yes. Yes. That's a pot of gold right there, buddy. It is.

It costs a pot of gold to live in Toronto. Just a complete sellout. I live on the King and Bathurst area, just as I've sold out as much as a man possibly can. Yeah, speaking of rural maritime, I mean, that is just not the scene. That's just a very bizarre scene for the guy who loves the country and loves fishing

and loves going out to the boats to be like great in the middle of the entertainment district with that going around spending his days in Trinity Bellwood's part. I should have stayed back. I should have done the two weeks on and off. Just, uh, you know, came home with a nice $1,100 a month truck payments and a bad habit like so many blue jays beat like that you come in for two weeks and then take a week off you know you fly back to I kind of go on the road like that it's probably a bit easier because I'm in New York tomorrow so to start the year I did Tampa and then home for a bit because you were already in Florida.

Yeah, I'd been in Florida for about 50 days. It was its opening day. I deemed to be enough. Yeah, and then Houston was a good time to get a break. I don't know how many of our reporters are in Houston, but no thank you. And then I'll go to New York because that one matters much more. So I'll do about two thirds of the road games about this year 130 so it's that's enough. I don't want more

Certainly I've I've learned Over the years. Well, what enough is for me, but um like the travel don't need more happy I have some and And you got a job in mainstream media covering the Toronto Blue Jays I didn't want to bury that lead that you guys should just pat yourselves on the back. That this is really special, I think. How I could probably fit everybody with a job from mainstream media to cover the Toronto Blue Jays baseball team could all fit in this basement easily. Like with no despair.

Yes. We could probably name them all right now. If everyone was here, I'd be less happy, but I'm glad it's just us three. Yeah. Big question for you, Greg or from the Toronto star, still Canada's biggest newspaper. Congrats on that. Thank you, Richard Griffin for taking that job at the. Yeah. Thank you, Griff. Really? Thank you. Thanks to Griff. Now doing a podcast with the aforementioned new Maritimers, Scott MacArthur. So check that out. But

do you ever get to go to road games? Oh yeah. No, I was, I mean, I was in Tampa with Keegan for the end of spring training and the opening series. And I probably do about a road road trip a month. I think what the plan is for this, for me, it was kind of, that was actually a big selling point to go into the star. I knew I wouldn't be the only one who was traveling. And I did about a decade at MLB and I was getting ready to start a family. And as Keegan knows, it's an awful lot of nights on the road. I think I added it up when I was down there in Florida just the other day. And I think I've spent over a year and a half of my life in Florida, which,

which sounds great. And it is, there are benefits to that, but, but it is, it does become challenging after a while. I mean, Keegan's definitely living that life right now where you're kind of home for a week on the road for a week. And there's a lot of upheaval that comes with that. But yeah, no, we're doing probably, I'll be doing probably about one a month. Amazing.

And who else at the Toronto Star is covering baseball right now? We got Mike Wilner. We've got Mark Colley, who's one of our younger reporters who came on last year. And then we've got Rosie DiMano doing baseball as well. Spot duty there. Okay. So here's the question. How many Toronto based, you know,

beat reporters go on the road if the blue Jays, like how many would there be? I know back in the day you'll talk to these guys, like you mentioned, Bob Elliott and I'll have Dave Perkins down here and Larry Nelson and stuff. And they'll be telling me about, I don't know. Yeah. they'll be telling me about how many you know how many people would be there well freak for like when for like a game in Philadelphia in the 93 World Series it like the star would send like 40 people or something yeah it's like that but how many how many approximately on an average game in I don't know what game against let's pick on the Houston Astros like if there's a game in Houston

how many people based in Canada would be there to cover the change? In Houston right now there's just two writers. So you would always have one essentially there from Sportsnet. I think there's someone there from the Athletic right now. But it certainly is a skeleton crew, even compared to when I started. I mean, I've certainly heard the glory stories about like the 90s and things like that. But when I started in 2007, the Blue Jays beat was one of the biggest beats in all of Major League Baseball. It was something that really surprised visiting writers from a lot of other teams or when we'd roll in because we really had a big, big traveling crew. I mean, there was essentially a time where we had, I mean, I guess four papers that would, in Toronto,

who would always be sending someone on every road trip. And then there'd be times when they would send multiple people. So it wasn't quite like the 90s when there'd be like four people there. But like, I mean, we would have a traveling crew between 12 to 15. And now I think it's down to probably I mean, Tampa was kind of the upside of what our market now kind of does.

And I think we had what, five or six there. Yeah. And that's the opening day. And that also, you know, you're in the same state where spring training took place. Like, I pretty much say that there's two and a half riders on every trip. Yeah. And so's opening day. And that also, you know, you're in the same state where spring training took place. Like I pretty much say that there's two and a half writers on every trip. Yeah. And so one from the athletic, one is you and then, well, yeah, I would. Yeah. The second one is. But it's, it's normally me and Sportsnet.

And Sportsnet, do they even count? Like someone else. Don't we put like an asterisk beside Sportsnet in that not only are they, they have the coverage, the exclusive coverage, but they, they all, all you know they all work for the same Rogers conglomerate there it's and on top of a Sportsnet writer will also have Hazel will be there Dan and Buck will be there so there's at least some people you know in my job thank God some people to fill out a scrum and not leave me stranded but normally it's it's me one of Shia or Ben from Sportsnet right and then sometimes a third, like for example, in New York, beginning

tomorrow, I think it's just me and shy as writers. So I'm pretty sure kind of wild when you think about it. So this is like the third series of the season, a third or a fourth in New York and you got a couple of times, but yeah, strange. At least you're there. Hey, if I'm there, I'm happy. And, you know, me and Shy in New York, I'll be good. Me and Shy, I'll get along just fine. I've never met Shy. He's been invited. We need to get him on here, then.

I've tried. Ben's been over. He was great. But Shy, I've yet to have the pleasure. But tell Shy to get over here. Like, let's get him in. Get him in. Get him in here.

I would appreciate that. I want to compliment you real quick here, Keegan, because of course, Gregor, I know he's always going to be as thin as a rail. Like that guy, I don't know what that metabolism is like. Very upsetting. Dude eats like a disaster. He just looks trim, right? Tall and thin. Some might say lanky, but good for you, Gregor. But you, Keegan, you've shed some beef. You look fantastic. Yeah, I dropped a little bit this offseason. I

have always been bigger obviously, but I Kind of let it go off the rails late last year. I believe speaking of travel, you know, it's easy to you know, just trip over your feet and have 12 beers and a pizza and Not that I don't still do that, but a little more controlled. So I didn't have much fun this off season. Got it back under control a little bit and dropped a few pounds in the off season. So we'll try to keep it there. I was getting, I was getting worried because when we walk out of Rogers center, it's the same gate as the players, which I almost just said,

but I'll, I'll not say because there's enough crowds there already, but people were stopping confusing me for players. Like when I would walk out, nobody would even double check like their book of cards. So I was like, Oh God, I'm getting too fat to even be like the fattest player on the team now. So I've, uh, had to, had to pull it together just a little bit, you know, went for a, you reined it in. Yeah. Reigned it in not all the way, but, uh well, you look good enough. I'm just going to give it to you.

Take the compliment. You're looking good. You're looking fantastic. And you have not in this year, which is 2024, as we're recording, people will be listening to this in the far off future. Maybe you're listening to this in twenty twenty five or beyond, in which case you may have released a book. Are you able to tease what's coming in 2025, Keegan? Yeah, it still feels so far away.

And at some point I got to just tell the listenership. Yeah, we will talk a little 20, 24 Blue Jays. I realize we could talk for 90 minutes and never get to that. But please tell us about this book that's coming. Yeah, that'll be about probably around this time next year. So I'll come back and we can have a little launch party for that. But it'll be called the franchise Toronto Blue Jays. So I got to finally share it with people pretty recently.

The quick version is that it's going to be a curated history of the Blue Jays. So not a boring tell-everything history, but thankfully some freedom to tell stories that I care about. Skip over some stories that you've already heard 10,000 times and I've written 10,000 times. But try to get to the personalities, the people involved, what mattered to them, why it mattered to them, and hopefully tell you some fun stories with that. So it'll be out in about a year.

I love it. It is already testing my patience because I'm a pretty immediate person with my work normally. You're a man of action. So this is a much different process for me, but it's been fun so far. Soon enough, I'll get to the point where it drives me crazy, but so far so good Okay, the franchise Toronto Blue Jays a collection of stories and essays releasing in hardcover from triumph books

It's funny. It's from triumph books only because FOTM Rick Emmett Do you guys know who Rick Emmett is another where I've heard the name don't know because you guys are very young but guitarist for triumph So he's a world-renowned guitarist where our Toronto's second greatest trio I'd say after Rush Triumph you know before my time too to be honest but Rick Emmett's a great guy. Rick Emmett's confirmed to be celebrated before the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game on May 12 at Christie Pitts and since Keegan you're putting out this hardcover

book about the Toronto blue Jays next year. I want to give you and Greg or a hardcover book on the history of the Toronto. So take a look at that book. That is the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. I always say in the intro, the best baseball in the city outside the dome, uh, you guys are covering. I was, I was trying to start the rumor. Joey Votto would be a Toronto Maple Leaf before the Blue Jays. He still might at some point. You never know. You never know.

He seems to love playing in the city and you got, what's your next option after, if the Blue Jays don't want you to play there, you might as well play at Christie Pitts for the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. So enjoy that book. Thank you. Uh, I'm sure you're going to be at the dome on May 12th, uh, boo, but there is going to be an amazing home opener for the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. That is going to take place May 12 at 2 PM. And some great people are going to show up,

not just people like Rick vibe and Rick Emmett, all the Ricks are going to show up. Uh, Rick Flair. No, I don't know about Rick Flair. I don't want to say, don't, don't quote me on that one, but Hebsi is going to be there. there He's gonna be calling an inning with Peter gross Peter gross and Mark Hebscher calling and inning Stephen Brunt's making the trek from Hamilton Just know of Steve Paykin's gonna be there all the Steve's and all the Rick's So if you know a Steve or a Rick get them to Christie pits But at some point if the schedules align and there's no Jays game to cover, but there is a Sunday afternoon Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game at Christie Pitts,

I would love you two to be my guests there. Definitely. Didn't Great Lakes, is there Great Lakes available there now, I believe? You know what? I think it's left field. It is left field. Well, I'm misbranding completely. It's a bone of contention with me

because I think in the negotiations, I think Great Lakes finished second. Okay, I remember hearing something about a new beer sponsor and I crossed it up. And shout out to Lethield. I do love my Great Lakes. I ran into our friend Troy down in spring training actually. Oh yeah, he went on a family vacation. Troy was down there.

Troy and his boy were down. Troy's here tomorrow. Love it. Because we record Between Two Fermenters, which is the official Great Lakes Brewery podcast. At some point you should be a guest on Between Two Fermenters. There we go. We'll see how many beer I can drink in one podcast. What is your go-to Great Lakes beer?

I used to be the octopus wants to fight because I used to love crushing IPAs, which caught up with me. The Karma Citra I'm into and I do like the Canuck Pale Ale. Like now that I've kind of come back to beer, because I went away from beer for a while. Yeah, now that I've come back come back to beer, because I went away from beer for a while. Yeah. Now that I've come back to beer a little bit, uh, I have discovered the joy of the light crushable beer, which I did not appreciate as much. Now I think it's coming off the press now. Is that what you call it? The press? But when you can new new beers. Okay. So the, uh, the sunny side,

IP eight comes out only for the summer. I think it's coming down the line right now That's the IPA to crush in the summertime I think it's three point two or something and you can down a couple and still feel that was my problem when I moved from Out East Alexander Keith's is an IPA Which I thought that's what all IPA is tasted like and I got to Toronto and I would get to a bar and say give Me your IPA and they would hand me motor oil. They would hand me a bone shaker or something and it would ruin my life for days. So a, a session IPA is up my alley. A hundred percent. So, okay. So when the, when I do have some, I'll make sure to save

some for you, but we'll get you on between two fermenters. Now, so many places I want to go. Let me start with you, Greg or Actually, let me read a couple of questions So I don't forget these at the end and then we'll kind of walk through the 2024 blue Jays But Craig M writes in Mike Can you ask the guys how bad would it have to get for Schneider and Atkins to lose their jobs and is Don? Mattingly the obvious successor for Schneider I've defended Atkins in the past but not a fan of a lot of the moves he's made in the last eighteen months. So to set the table, you two just have the conversation. I'll sit back and listen. You guys are the

experts here. They're underwhelming off season for a lot of Blue Jays fans, and what do you think has to happen for the Craig Ems fantasy to come true? Talk to me about this either or yeah. I mean we've we've something we've talked about a lot behind the scenes on the beat it's just a natural point of conversation because where the J's are at kind of in their history right now and I mean I think things would have to go really off the rails for anything to happen in the season. I would be pretty shocked one way or the other if the GM or manager were let go during the actual year. Right.

But look, this is a make or break, in my opinion, this is a make or break season for this entire era of Blue Jays baseball. So if the Jays do not take a step forward this year, and in my opinion, taking a step forward is, you know, you actually have to make some noise in the postseason. I mean, this is a team that's been- Well, win a game maybe. Yeah, start with winning a game and then actually advance around or two for this to actually have some meaning to it. So, I mean, look, Guerrero, Bichette, Romano, these guys are all nearing the end of their contracts. They've got less than two years left now. And so if this team

doesn't have something to show for it at the end of the year, and you're looking at those guys only having one year left on their contracts, you cannot put the franchise in the position where you're letting these guys walk away for nothing. It's going to set you back too much. Now if you have a team that is contending for a World Series, those are some risks that you're willing to take. You don't mind taking guys into expiring deals when you actually are playing for something significant. So really I think that's what's on the line. I think if the Jays don't end up playing for something significant at the end of the year, I think it's what's on the line. I think if the Jays don't end up playing for something significant significant at the end of the year

I think it's gonna be time for regime change Yeah, you can drop a bomb on this team pretty quick if you want like if this team doesn't go well this year There is an off-ramp that you can just crank the wheel on real quick. Let me understand this again I'm not as close to it as you guys are that's why you're here You're the experts, but we're sort of running it back with the same team as last year. I mean, even if you remind the casual fans, like what is different on this team from last not much. I mean, Kevin, my turned into Kevin Kiermaier Whitmery field turned into, I guess, Isaiah kind of Falefa, right? Not a ton

else. So Justin Turner in, but no, I mean, I mean look this this front office Spent most of last year talking about how they were waiting for things to normalize and waiting for the offense to turn around because that was The expectation these guys supposedly had track records that they were gonna fall back on it never happened and not only Are they still maintaining that stance? They're kind of doubling down on it with what they did in the offseason because I mean, they really made some moves that were essentially just bringing it back. And that's it. Last year is not the type of season that you would have thought would have been a run it back type year. It's,

it's one of the things I was very surprised at this past off season. I think a lot of blue Jays fans were as well and certainly disappointed about it. It's bold because it also operated under the entire assumption. And I felt like I was going crazy all off season, not like just beyond my typical mental breakdown during an off season, because the entire run it back thing existed on

an assumption that the rotation and the bullpen was just gonna be the exact same, which is bananas. It's not gonna happen. And that's not a knock on the pitchers involved. It's just a recognition of reality. Like you're not gonna have everything. Is that's not a knock on the pitchers involved. It's just a recognition of reality like you're not They were so healthy and everyone in the bullpen had a very good year like even Maybe Jimmy Garcia's wasn't the best but it wasn't bad

Yeah one of these bullpen guys is going to have a five and a half eRA this year or miss most of the year one of These starters is going to miss small. You're already seeing it with Alec Manoja You saw with Gosman for a bit in spring training. Like it's not all going to go as well. There's there's kind of you know, regression in the other direction as well. So it's it's there's a lot of hope involved and I don't love hope as a strategy. Maybe that's everything needs to break a certain way. It sounds like this team to know one of the interesting things. So last night there was a you know, two outs in the night, right, to run Homer and then we

kind of snatch victory from the claws of defeat. If we lose that game and it was very, you know, down to the last out, right, this team is two and four to start the season and you're off to New York and then you're coming for your, your, your first home stand of the season. But're off to New York and then you're coming for your first home stand of the season. But I'm wondering, I remember when they got rid of Jimmy Williams. I got to go back to 1989 for all my references, but Jimmy Williams, I think they were 12 and 24 and then they brought in Cito Gaston in 1989. So the Don Mattingly question that was brought up there by Craig M. You mentioned management unlikely

to change during the season, but like a Schneider on that kind of a leash, if this team gets off to like a 12 and 24 start, is Don Maddingley the new manager? I think it's less about Schneider and more about Atkins. In my mind, Atkins doesn't get at this point another manager hire. I mean he replaced John Gibbons with Charlie Montoya and then last then before he replaced Montoya with Schneider and so I don't think you can look at this team and blame the problems on the guy who's running the show and the dugout. I mean certainly there were some questionable moves in the playoffs last year but this team has also taken a

top-to-bottom approach where you know there's it's not just not Schneider who is saying this stuff I mean the front office has some stay in what the lineups look like and how they come up with their pregame planning so I don't think Schneider goes for that reason I think if it got to the point where Schneider would need to be fired then I think it would mean that that Ross Atkins would need to be fired too and then you kind of come at it from the perspective of that new guy's then gonna bring in his manager. I don't think, I mean, everybody, Mattingly is the easy guy to point to

as being the next manager of this team because he's done it before, because he's already there. Rarely do those guys actually end up taking over the main job. But my expectation is that Don Mattingly will be a manager again somewhere. I just think it will be somewhere other than Toronto because I think if this thing goes south,

I think you're probably also, you might not be looking at a traditional rebuild, but you were certainly looking at a major retooling of the roster. And then I think you probably go with a guy who has a little bit less experience, who's gonna work with some of the younger guys. I mean, it's not a Charlie Montoya,

but you might be bringing in another Charlie Montoya type while Mattingly would probably go to a bigger market Which is kind of I mean he's his name has been mentioned now for a few years is kind of a possibility And I think when you look at Ross and Schneids Like I agree with Gregor you don't get to hire a fourth man. I know I does that be that's that how you're referring to Yeah, but when I'm asking objective as a journalist when I'm um, yeah, that's that's other people's problem Yeah, that's um, I call him John in questions if I'm being broadcast it sounds more formal but some with Roz you don't get to hire a fourth manager if you haven't won a playoff game, right?

I mean my god, you can only blame those guys so many. Yeah. Yeah, you can only throw so many people under the bus and God, you can only blame those guys so many times. Yeah. Yeah. You can only throw so many people under the bus and with Schneider, I mean, he's still a guy that I believe in him as a manager. And I shouldn't say still it's still quite early in this, but I'm also believe that there needs to be room for a manager to develop a little bit too. Okay. He got his ass kicked totally, but he's someone who I trust and at least want to see bounce back from that. Like how are you going to do it differently?

How will you evolve as a manager? Because I think we look at managers and coaches, it goes for anything, NBA, NFL. You kind of are who you are, nothing changes, easy. But I think Schneids can develop and be a better manager. But if you're the GM of this team, they have played six playoff games the last four years, lost all of them. You've hired, this is your third manager. I think the more I get into this, I view front offices,

like right down to the manager as a company as much as I viewed as a baseball team. And there's managers answering to managers above them. Everybody has a shield, but at a certain point you just, you don't get to hire a fourth manager in major league baseball. If you're not winning any playoff games, it just doesn't work like that. Very interesting. Now you've reminded me of the, uh, I feel like I felt like Atkins was throwing Schneider under the bus with the Barrios pull in that was at the fourth inning. Remind me,

this fourth inning of the playoff game last year he was dealing. Okay. And I, now that I finally got you guys here in the basement What was your thoughts on all that? Like like Atkins kind of suggested that he didn't make that call we were kind of assuming this was a pre-arranged You know preordained thing that no human it's like the automation bots were in progress and you cannot you know stop this process flow from happening but I cannot stop this process flow from happening. But what was your take? I think we were sitting next to each other in the press box in Minneapolis.

And I think the first 10 things I said to Gregor were what the fuck is happening right now, just over and over. Because yes, I understand why things happen. I can see the reasoning that's being used. It's not unfathomable. But I think it's, with things like this, I think it's important to stick to the opinion

you had at the moment, not say, oh, this is smart, and then change your mind 10 minutes later when it blows up. I don't think anything we were saying was positive in the moment. And then I remember soon after when Vlad got picked off at first base, I think I nearly took Gregor out of his chair with a swing of my hand. I was looking down typing and saw that happening and it was stunning as it

happened. And I know it devolved into an off season of transparency, communication, blah, blah, blah, with big words. But at the time, I mean, I have a lot of respect for how Jose Barrios has handled that since because he could have been pissed. He should have been pissed. I think he was pissed. Rios has handled that since because he could have been pissed. He should have been pissed. I think he was pissed. Um, he's the ultimate pro and he was having like the ultimate FU best playoff start of his career against his old team. He looked amazing and he gets yanked for you.

Say to, I can still picture you say, Kikuchi jogging in from the bullpen wondering what is going on. And here we are many months later and nobody's really ever taken accountability for that move. I mean that was the issue I had with the way Ross Atkins came out at the end of that season was, I mean at no point in time at the end of last year did I think that Ross Atkins' job was in jeopardy until he went in front of the microphone and did his year in press conference and about five minutes in to that press conference I was sitting there listening to his answers Yeah, and I thought to myself this is going so badly right now that he has just put himself in the hot seat

And Shapiro came out a few days later and gave him a vote of confidence saved his job But the optics around that were terrible. I mean everybody it wasn't just you Thought that you know Atkins was throwing his manager under the bus. Nobody believed what he was saying. Nobody believed that the front office didn't have any kind of role at all in the way that the Jays were handling their pregame meetings, their in-game strategy. I mean, it's all intertwined. And so we've known that for years. And while Schneider, sure, was the guy who went out there and took the ball, the organization from the top all the way down to the bottom needs to take some accountability. And to me, that was just a complete vacancy of leadership in that moment, one that the organization still hasn't really fully recovered from.

And so I will say that, you know, to Keeg's point, the guy who handled this really, really well was Jose Barrios because he's a guy who could have held a grudge. He could have said a lot of things at the end of last year. He could have said a lot of things going into this spring that would have really driven a wedge between him and the coaching staff, the front office. He didn't take that. He took it like a man and he's you know trying to bounce back this year. So kudos to him but the way that entire situation was handled from top to bottom was a complete mess and I mean we've seen this before. They kind of did a similar thing a few years ago against Tampa Bay.

It wasn't as big of a deal. But you took out Matt Shootmaker, brought in Robbie Ray. That game went sideways. A couple years later, they did essentially the exact same thing, just with even better players and even more shocking decision. But it doesn't seem like they've necessarily learned their lesson.

They're a little bit stubborn in their ways it's the beauty of collaboration you know like if I write a terrible story and only my name is on top of it well I'm screwed the box and Gregor co byline a story and it sucks I can say well you know some of it was Gregor some of it was me some of it was hosted the Oscars this year again? Jimmy Kimmel? Yeah. No, I meant to go, you're right. I said Oscars, didn't I? I mean now Golden Globe Awards.

Okay. Joe Koy? Joe Koy, yeah, that was much worse. And early on he's like, oh, someone else wrote the jokes. The jokes you're laughing at are the ones I wrote. It's the writers. You know, it's sort of like that. Like, I always feel like when Atkins says, essentially Atkins on, in that press conference,

that disastrous press conference, he announces that it wasn't his call. Like this wasn't a preordained thing that from him to me, I feel Schneider's the guy being the mensch here because he couldn't he just come out and say like I did not make the call. Like that was not my call. Like we all, we all kind of operate under the assumption that there's no way the manager made that call to pull burials for Kikuchi in the fourth inning. Right. So where are we? We just sort of like we move on because nobody's going to own up to this thing and just a, it's just a clusterfuck from an organization.

I don't think anyone's going to go any further on it. Like in terms of the organization, like I'm sure people have said a lot behind the scenes and are pissed. Especially if you are getting Put out there and aired out a little bit when you know what happened, but it's like Gregor said it's not the first time it's kind of how the organization is operated and it's like it Surprised me, but didn't surprise me

And the way I kind of look at it too. there's kind of an erosion of trust over time within the market. And I mean, let's be honest, I mean, when Atkins and Shapiro arrived here, they didn't get a very warm reception to begin with because of the way they came in and Alex Anthopoulos and all the things that happened with that. But I mean, they have had now a long time here. And as the seat gets to be a little bit hot, you kind of look at some things that have happened over the last year or so and I think people just aren't trusting them and are liking them even less because of the things that happened and the playoffs are part of that. I think the way that the organization handled the public relations in and around things

with Anthony Bass last year was another erosion of trust within a huge section of the fan base because the things that were being said publicly were not matching up with the things that were going on behind the scenes and there was clearly an overprotection of the player that was going on there. There was a large section of the fan base that was offended by that and it's not it became about Anthony Bass and the organization but to me it was more about how the organization handled it to me it was more about how the organization handled it. Because you're going to have guys like this in Major League Baseball who are going to say controversial things, they're going to do something stupid.

It's how you respond to that. Because you know those guys exist, but what are you representing? What are you standing up for as an organization? Mark Shapiro didn't say anything publicly at all during that time, which was a very big surprise to me. And Ross Atkins just stepped in it every time he did. So he talked to the media a few times during that stretch and every time he did, it seemed to get worse. And the way that the public was reacting to that

was they were seeing the quotes and almost everybody was saying, oh, you know, we don't believe this. We don't believe what he's saying because it didn't match up. And when you have that over time, those things build up. People get more and more frustrated and ultimately your leash starts becoming shorter because the people who are your boss notice that your approval rating is going even lower and lower

and lower and lower. And at some point in time when the results don't match what you're expecting, a move has to be made. Now, I'm on the live stream. I see Lethbridge Wayne. Hello to Lethbridge Wayne. I love it when you show up. He was always at the, we would record a Hebsi on sports every week and I got to co-host that for five years and I always knew it you guys can kind of confirm my suspicions and maybe we can take some of the heat off the Blue Jays for something that happened at the end of last season.

Okay, so Lethbridge Wayne writes, they lost the last game of the regular season, but still clinched a wild card. They celebrated with champagne like they won the World Series. I was totally embarrassed by it. So this is Lethbridge Wayne just wrote that. Now at the time I remember thinking like oh that does feel cringy to be celebrating because you backed into a wild card spot but my assumption was at the time as a guy who just

proudly gave you Great Lakes beer because I'm in partnership with Great Lakes beer, my assumption at the time was that MLB had some endorsement deal with Budweiser that when every team clinched their playoff spot there would be Budweiser product available for the cameras to roll and show the players celebrating with Budweiser product. Like this is my assumption as a independent man of commerce here at TMDS. Do you guys have any insight into this? Is this? I think there is. Yes, so I was under the understanding that there was, although I do know that there was one team last year and I can't remember who it is now who did not do the

celebration. So that's what I'm wondering. Could the Blue Jays opt out of like, cause you lose, you know, you were expected to make playoffs and you lose on the last day. Now you've got your wild card and they, I do remember watching the footage of them celebrating and I'm sure you were there. It is a cringy left bridge., he was embarrassed by it, left-bridge Wayne, but if they can opt out, that does change things, because I felt like maybe this was some obligation to- There was one team, I think, that did like a toast. They did a toast.

Yeah, they did a toast. Grab a beer, grab a champagne. Houston. Houston. Houston. Houston. How do you two think, as guys who covered this team, how do you feel about a team that celebrates in that manner, having lost on the last game of the to back into a wild card spot? I'm just curious. I know it's a huge bonic intention for fans because I mean I've certainly got a lot of

messages about it and I mean going back to 2015 I can remember you know there was lots of people who were upset about the J's celebrating when they should have been supposedly continuing to push for you know the top spot in the American League so they would have home-field advantage throughout the playoffs So I mean this happens every single year. I will say that to me. I don't think it's a big deal if I'm being honest I mean, I think it is something that happens across the sport I think it's something that every market that makes the the playoffs that their fan base complains about it pretty much unless you are Celebrating you know in early September because you've clenched so far in advance and people don't really care.

But this is a topic of conversation that pretty much every year. The guy, see the thing that maybe is not as apparent to people who are watching from home, I mean, that celebration does not last long. I mean, that celebration really is like 15 to 20 minutes. It is, I mean, there are exceptions to that. I can think of the really is like 15 to 20 minutes. Uh, it is, I mean, there are exceptions to that.

I can think of the celebration when the Jays clinched in 2015 in Baltimore, and that was early in the day and part of a double header and they got, they got very into it that day. Uh, but the, the celebration this past year was, was short and everybody kind of moved on and it is mostly for show. And I think it's mostly for show for sponsors. It's, it's a brief moment to let loose. I don't think it's that big of a deal.

It's for cameras. I mean, God knows when I say Sportsnet wants it, I don't mean that as a shot. I'm my company, MLB.com wants it for videos, for stuff. There is some sort of Budweiser. I'm certain money changes. There's a reason that it's Budweiser and Bud Light being poured on each other.

And you can see those bottles held over the heads. I don't have a problem with it. I get why people do and I don't disagree with that. Also, hindsight being 20-20, we go on to get swept in the wild card series and those circumstances. It happens quickly. Like so it's like, oh, like then it all becomes one big blob of embarrassment. And it's also different for every player, you know, like I'm sure George Springer, who's made the playoffs a hundred times is in there thinking, okay, have a beer, let's go. I'm sure if you did that with Justin Turner, he'd be in the corner just like chugging a Budweiser and saying, I do this every year, but in every club host

that like I'm trying to think last year, there's like a cam Eden or some stuff like that where it's a guy who's never been there. This might be the one shot he's got to do it. It's probably pretty special for them, but like Gregor said, like we're in the room for those, usually getting pretty wet with the, ideally champagne, beer is what makes you stink. Ideally someone just gets champagne on me, but they're pretty quick.

Do you wear the goggles? No, I go to the Richard Griffin school of not wearing protection into those. That was always a big Griffin. Gregor, do you wear the goggles in there? I definitely do not. Not goggles. I will wear like a bit of a windbreaker

with a bit of a hoodie or something. I'll throw that on. So like when I see it coming, I'll try to do a little bit. Cause there is, I'm trying, I think it was in Baltimore actually after they clinched, I was trying to get into a cab after, after the game to go back to my hotel. And it took a few cabs before they would let me in

because I got in and I just, I reeked of alcohol and people like they were just like I'm not picking this guy up. Yeah the beer is the problem. Last year I got really bad champagne I forget which player it was that was me. That's when you get sticky I remember walking home and I feel like I had honey all over myself but when you get the beer on you that's a problem that you just stink. You know, again, I'm a little older than you guys. So, you know, all my memories, early memories of blue J playoff action, literally two teams in the American league would make the playoffs. Okay. So two and a little different everyone. Like if you're trying, you make the playoffs now, you know, so that's just

again, what is the number? Is it six teams? How many teams in each in each and the American, how many teams in the American league make the playoffs this year? Six be a seven now with three wildfires. Yeah. Okay. So now we're very, very, very close to NHL numbers, right? Because the Leafs are going to clinch tonight. Probably maybe. Okay. So the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to maybe clinch tonight. And I can tell you if there was a drop of fucking champagne in that dressing room, it would be like, there'd be a national, uh, Oh, there'd be the 10 worst columns I've ever read would be written. It would

be, and what about Steve Simmons in the Toronto sun there? Okay. So, so just to compare different, different sports, different cultures and stuff, but no one's celebrating anything tonight when the, when they're, they become one of eight teams that will now vie for a success. Now I don't remember now because the leaves never almost never do this. I know the fans celebrate, but I do not believe after you win a round of a playoff that there's a drop of alcohol is celebrations will occur, at least not with cameras rolling. So it's one of those huge differences that you don't celebrate in NHL until you've got

Lord Stanley's mug that you can hoist there and you can ask Sydney Crosby and Nate McKinnon about that, you Maritimers. Because we only know it from black and white footage here. Apparently that's what happens. But in the MLB, if you're one of the seven teams that makes it, there will be a live coverage of the champagne and the beer. And it's just a different sport, different culture.

To me, that's the one that I find a little bit more annoying and a little bit more over the top. No, it's the MLB with how you do it after every single round So it's like, you know, it's it's a little bit bizarre to me that you would you know, the regular season I actually get I mean, it's the longest regular season of any professional sport. You're playing every single day These guys have like, you know one day off a month. There's not a little there's not a lot of time But so you can get behind celebrating once you actually clinch getting into the postseason But it's a little bit weird to celebrate and then four days later

Celebrate again after you you know win a wild card game and then potentially celebrate a week after that because you've won a best of Five series. It's just if that parts a little strange remember Gregor that that Budweiser money man Ghost did you guys play, I'm sure you guys did, but did you play the games where you didn't have enough people and you'd put a ghost runner on third? Yeah, of course. I know, I guess it's not just a generational thing, but the ghost runner on third, ghost runner on second,

that was everything when I was growing up. And this guy's handle on Twitter is ghost runner on third. And I just get nice nostalgic vibes from this, but he heard you were coming on Toronto Mike and he wrote Alejandro Kirk looks better Starting the year in my opinion. Do you think the birth of his child last year delaying his spring training start threw him off? He's hit well at every level Do you expect him to have a better year and before you answer? Let's just use this as an opportunity to assess how the Blue Jays are at the catcher position, not to be confused with back catcher,

which is how I grew up referring to this position. And Mike Wilner has told me I was wrong. I'm sure you're the first person who's that's ever happened to. Um, I guess I'll leave it to the guy who has a kid. I mean like that, you know having a kid a Sounds a little difficult but like B it delayed his spring training, right? And once that's the significant once you're playing catch-up, you're screwed. Yeah to me I actually think about it less from the role of a parent here because I think you know I'm gonna I'm gonna be a little judgmental and say that the you know, Major League baseball players Don't have don't have to deal with the exact same home life. Yeah I think there's a little bit more of a situation even though Alejandro Kirk has not become a rich man yet I'm sure the man can afford it. That's a relative term. Yeah I'm not going to

have very much sympathy for his home duties right now and maybe I'm wrong maybe he's doing a whole lot that would just be my guess. The way I look at it more is the amount of time missed in spring training. And I mean, last year was just a strange situation because he was supposed to be there on the first day and then they were like, oh, he's going to be here in a couple of days. And then that story stayed like that for a very long period of time. And obviously the birth of his childhood was a big factor there. But I mean, he missed basically half of camp. And so while Jay said he was working out and stuff back in Mexico while it was happening and there's only so much you can do and I think Kirk in

particular is a guy that one you want to have some eyes on him because you want to get him under your conditioning, your training program. So you missed out on that and then the additional responsibilities that come with a catcher. I mean catchers have more on their plate in spring training by far than anybody else on the staff and so he was already kind of preoccupied with that. Can he bounce back this year? I mean, that's a very good question. He's your primary catcher while Danny Jansen

is recovering from that fractured bone in his right wrist. He does have to, but I mean, we saw it again last night. There are some ill-timed double play balls. I mean, there's just gonna, he has not quite lived up to what we thought he was going to be at this point in time but I'm certainly not down on Alejandro Kirk going into the spring training I thought he might be in a position to bounce back and I like the Jay's kitchens situation as a

whole between him and Danny Jansen and I think the bigger question comes at the end of this year after Danny Jansen becomes a free agent I mean that's probably a guy who might price himself out of this market because of what they're trying to do elsewhere on the roster. And when you're down to having Kirk as kind of your main, main guy, that's where I start getting a little bit nervous because I think having Danny Janssen, even though he's out right now, I think having Danny Janssen is what really kind of makes that whole package work. Yeah. I don't know about having Kirk as the guy. That's dangerous. Yeah, I don't know about having Kirk is the guy that's dangerous, you know,

and if Jansen could go a month without breaking a bone, great. But I think Danny Jansen is so valuable. Yeah. Like to this pitching staff, to this lineup, who he is as a person, the history he has with the organization. Like, I think if he's a guy you can keep around for five more years, he's someone you're talking about as one of those, one of the very best blue Jays catchers ever if he can stay healthy and if he can hit but Kirk I think works so well is like a really high-end 1B and I know that that's some tough pigeonholing but is he gonna catch 125 games a year I don't

think so and just the realities of how a player holds up physically. What's Kirk like physically at age 30, 31, 32, holding up to a full catcher's workload. And with his skill set, I loved him as a prospect, but if you are going to be one of the slowest players in the entire sport, your contact rate has to be absolutely elite. And you have to keep the ball off the ground. Because if Alejandro Kirk hits the ball on the ground, he's out no matter what. So it's got to be in the air he's got to make a ton of contact. Like him as a catcher like how he receives how he blocks is all very good but it just makes so much

more sense when it's Jansen and Kirk because if Jansen signs elsewhere this offseason which I think would be a major underrated loss for this team and one that I don't think they Should let happen But then you'd need to sign another legit catcher with Kirk like you couldn't just get another backup type You'd need a legitimate second. I heard there's this pretty good guy on Arizona named Marino. I don't know if you've found this guy He's he'd look good in a blue. It's too early to judge the trade though, which is something people say when they're losing the trade It's early. It's early. Okay. So really quick hit here. Uh, below average average or above average, uh, at the catcher position for the Toronto blue jeez in 2024. As you see it

above above for me as well. Okay. Thank you very much. Now who would win a race Alejandro Kirk or Daniel Vogelbach? Who wins a race? You know, it's funny, we were actually just looking at some of the stat cast data in Tampa. Are you there for that conversation? No, I'm not. I must be in the dining room. We were looking at the sprint speed because there was a play that Alejandro Kirk did not beat out. And I think I said he was the only one that would get thrown out in that play. And somebody tried to correct me and Shai tried to correct me and say that Vogelbach would would as well Vogelbach is I believe 0.01 feet per second or something slower.

But however, whatever the metric is, it is almost identical. They haven't invented a device yet that can be. Yeah, they're both like first, like bottom, bottom, bottom. I feel like Vogelbach at least has the like big guy who gets some momentum rolling down the tracks. Does he though? Does he eventually? Like I feel like the momentum would eventually take over to the heavier set people. Whereas, uh, yeah, like I might need to put myself in this race, which would be real interesting. Put all my money on you winning this race. Yeah, I might, I might have the

longer legs, which would help me, uh, particularly compared to K this race. Yeah, I might I might have the longer legs which would help me Particularly compared to Kierke I I would take Volga buck. It would be really close in a race to First I think if you make them run the full lap, it's Volga buck comfortably. He'd get the momentum Oh, yeah a little more conditioning there you think? Yeah As a guy who currently lives in Etobicoke and is a proud Torontonian here and we could probably throw a stone from here and hit Mimico, Vogelbach, he's only here till Votto's ready, right? Like he's just taking Votto's spot on the roster, right? I would assume so. I think the only chance of that not being the case is, well, I mean,

one, if anything goes wrong with Vado I mean that and then the other one was if Vogelbach came out and like actually kind of like lit the world on fire a little bit it'd be it'd be hard to try to get a better chance of lighting the world yeah it's very true all right so this is our my effective way of segueing us to first base okay we talked about him the first time you were here in 2018. I would have some guy, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. He's still there. He's still kicking around.

He's a different cat now. Is he still, because I won't name names, but at least one beloved FOTM told me before he played his first game for the Toronto Blue Jays that he was guaranteed to be in the Hall of Fame with his dad. I thought that was quite a, quite a high lofty guaranteed is pretty, uh, pretty, you know, before he faced the pitch in the, even for someone who was like, I, I got, if I could do this job for like 30 more years, which number what went wrong, but like, if that happens, I don't know if

I'll ever see anything like Vlad in the minor leagues ever, ever, ever, ever. It was amazing. Yeah, but yeah, that's a, that's bold, but he's, he was amazing in 2021 and he's been good since and good as well. How's he looking for 2024? What do we, what would be a good, what should we expect from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. At this point? And by the way, he seems perpetually to me is perpetually like 21 years old. Yeah. And every spring is the story of oh, he's in great shape He's back Mike trout Mookie beds. These guys don't get back because they don't leave This can't be a story every and I know I'm the one writing it But you're not playing for the tron because there we go

I play for the Toronto Maybel Eaves and I know it's a story every single year and I have to write it because I have To write a million stories and are they all gonna be great? No, but every single spring is the same story with the laddie that he's back. He's in good shape. He's committed this year. Stay there. It's much easier if you just stay there. That's what I heard. Yeah. And listen, I'm a, I'm a Vlad built man. I know that things fluctuate. I get it, but, um, it's a story every year and it shouldn't be. It's, if that goes away, I think things get better. What's he going to be this year?

Is he going to be an 850 OPS guy? Is he going to hit 35 maybe? Like you see those flashes of the 45 home run guy, but the last, what, 300 plus games of his career just paint like a really good hitter, which is great, but he was supposed to be the best hitter in baseball. Yeah, Gregor, what do you think of Ladattie Greer Jr. Who's going to be, I guess you're looking for a, I actually read this at MLB.com that Keegan

Matheson is hoping 125 starts at first base and then, okay, that's less controversial. I was worried and then maybe a D H a start per week. That would be like a sweet spot for him. But what do you think Greg or about Vladimir Greer Jr. In our prospects at first base this season? I mean, I view it very similarly to Keegan. The one thing I do push back a little bit on is the fact that, you know, I feel like the narrative has almost gone too far

in the other direction now. The people really love beating up on Vladdy. And I think Vladdy, while he has arrived with insane expectations and has not come anywhere close to living up to those. He hasn't been as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. And a lot of people, I hate to try and take a J's angle here, but a lot of people do forget how young he still is.

And if you look at the careers of guys like Jose Batista, Edwin Encarnacion, I mean, they hadn't even gotten going by this point. And so the only thing I do caution people is to not just automatically assume that the Vladimir Guerrero of today is going to be the Vladimir Guerrero five years from now. I would not be shocked at all if he eventually figures things out at the big league level. It might not be in Toronto because he's only right now got two years left on that and it might happen three, four or five years down the road but that it's kind of what makes his upcoming free agent case so interesting to me because I that's one where I do not envy the Blue

Jays front office because I don't know how you evaluate him as a player right now. It's fine to do it in you know one year one-off kind of arbitration negotiation hearing all that type of stuff. But when you're starting to project out 10, 12 years down the line, I don't know how you do that. And the number is certainly a lot lower than right now. The number would be a lot lower than what I would have thought a couple of years ago. But it can also still get right back to where it was going to be. If he comes back this year or has an insane year next year and somehow rediscovers that

2021 magic, then you're talking about a huge payday again. And that's the one where I'd be a little bit nervous about, but it's a very, very complicated case that I don't know if anyone in baseball really knows how to handle. No, I don't know who Vlad is. I've covered him as much as any player. Like I've focused on Vladdy more than any player in this organization for like seven years now. I don't know who he is.

I know who Boba Shed is. Like if you're looking for a comp, like extension candidates, you have a much narrower window to say who Boba Shed is. If Vladdy is an 805 OPS, like 30 home run guy, okay, great. Like that's like, again, it's not a complete failure. It's just relative to expectations like Gregor said, right? But like what if he does nine fifty OPS 40 home runs this year?

like are you back talking about a crazy number because Like kind of what Gregor's getting at it's it's I can see those negotiations of Vlad. He's camp pointing at one thing and the J's Pointing at a completely different thing. There's there's such a million mile wide gap right now Like I don't know who Vlad is. We know who he is this year, maybe so far. Is it gonna be someone else different next spring? Is it going to get better, get worse as the year goes on? He's pretty unpredictable, which, you know, it's fine.

Cause he's young, but I also agree with Gregory. He's probably gonna have that 50 home run MVP season eventually. It just might happen with like the Philadelphia Phillies in 2029. It's gonna come someday, but yeah, apparently unless the Yankees offer him the most money and then he could do that like Hulk Hogan heel turn or real interesting there. Yeah. Okay. So it's safe to say above average at first base for the Toronto Blue Jays. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I have to

ask the questions here. Okay, Gregor, I can't make these assumptions, but's talk about second base here. And then I'll try not to spend so much time in each position because you guys might be here several hours if I do that. But second base, talk to me about the Blue Jays at second base in 2024, as you see it at this point. Second base into the season. Yep. Second base, I'm actually a little bit more okay with. If we get the third, that's where I'll have a bit of a rant. Second base but a second base is fine with the platoon of a Cav and Vigio, David Schneider. I would like to see the Jays kind of look for a little bit more opportunity to get Schneider in the lineup a little bit more particularly because of their options elsewhere but that that's not

necessarily related to second base because you know a lot of people are down in this guy, Cav and Vigio and they've been down on him for a while. There's something about the skill set that I will always like. I know it's not for everybody but he's an extremely patient guy. I love the way he works at bats. I like high OBP guys who can do a little bit of power. He just needs to become more consistent and I actually think he might have a pretty decent year this year. So I'm fine with where the Jays are at a second base. It's, it's elsewhere around the infield that I have concerns.

I like Biggio quite a bit. And I think if you put his brain in everyone's head, you're a pretty good team. Like he, he's so smart. Like I, I say, and this is like a strange reporter thing. Like I say often that like, I wish Biggio was a bigger part of the team success, just so we could like talk to him more about like big team wide stuff. Like I think he's very smart, could be like a good voice of the team if he was one of the people out in front of it. But David Schneider, that game last night's the perfect example of why he needs to play more. You can suck for a whole game and hit one home run

and guess what the story is about? The home run. Not about how much you sucked for, not just that game, but 17 innings prior as an offense. Dreadful. One home run. It changes the entire narrative. If they had have had a few more of those last year, I think Schneider embodies that so well and the need for power. When the team or staff would push back against that need for power last year, I didn't get it. I didn't buy that one bit. The power makes a lot of problems go away and Schneider is that. Do you think amongst the fans, the great unwashed fan base of the Toronto Blue Jays, that part of the problem with Kevin Biggio is he kind of comes up in this NEPO baby trio, right?

Like cause you got, you got, you got Guerrero, Bichette and Biggio and they're like, Oh, look at their dads and how great they were. And look, these guys are prospects and the nepo thing and everything. And then two of those three are like, you know, world beating all stars. And then you got Vigio. And I feel like that's part of this whole managing expectations as he was thrown in that group. So I think the fan base is underwhelmed by Kevin Vigio because he's not Bobish at or Vlad Guerrero.

If his last name was Johnson, I'm sure it's different, you know. Right. And it's I mean, I'm part of that problem. The number of stories I wrote about Vlad E. Bo and Gavin Bisio always and because it was a neat narrative and it made like he was a very good prospect but yeah if he's got a different last name I think people are viewing him as you know the what's the overdone caricature of like a gritty utility man who can do a lot of different things blah blah blah butishio reclassifies you. I classified good promotion for the future Toronto mic,

Maritimer coming here. Oh, to the Maritimes. So second base, average, above average or below average? Average for me. Yeah, average to the potential of being slightly a bit above average, I think. Okay, wow, okay. Shortstop, Beau Bichette.

Who's that? No, I think Bo's the team. Yeah, honestly. I mean, I know there's older guys, there's more veteran guys. I think Bo's the team. I'm with you. And I've kind of come to appreciate that more over the years of, I've just seen so many guys who like, you know, work hard and take a lot of ground balls and it's just a bunch of fluff. But I think Bo makes me appreciate what it actually means to do it and do it right, like kind of the Marcus Semyon tutelage of it all, and I

think Bo's the team. I think that if they go somewhere good it'll be because of him, if they fall short it won't be because of him. Yeah, the injury last year in particular, late last season just showed how valuable he is to this team, and so whether he's the MVP at the end of the year or not he's kind of the MVP at the start of the season just in terms of like what he means to the rest of that roster because if they had to replace him for a significant period of time they're in some serious. Yeah who would be who do you go to there Ernie Clement? You would go Ernie Clement yeah you go or I mean I guess you go Isaiah Kiner-Falefa

too you probably get both of them a little bit at shortstop But either way, I mean the production You know no disrespect to Ernie Clement who's who's had a nice spring and had a nice run last year and filled in for Bichette For a little bit. I mean, they're just they're just obviously not the same player I mean Bichette is is elite elite elite and the Jays need him at his best in order to contend Okay, so above average it sure. He's a serious baseball player. All right, I'm ready for the Gregor Rand. Yeah, oh, no, big Bo Bichette fan right here.

Let's hear the rant from Gregor, third base position of the 2024 Toronto Blue Jays. Well, this is no disrespect to Kynor Falefa, who's proven himself already to be a very nice individual. He seems like a great dude. I think fans will get to enjoy the personality And there's nothing wrong with the guy But the player I mean that was to me one of the worst signings I've seen in a long time

I was stunned stunned by that signing I mean to me he is a utility player that that should is best coming off the bench That is the type of player that you were supposed to be able to develop and pay not a lot of money to. Instead, they gave $7.5 million a year to a bench player. And not only that, but then they gave them the starting job at third base. There's a reason why throughout this off season, I've heard this from multiple places, just people around the game talking about how the IKF contract might have been one of the best contracts that any player got this off season

in terms of what he actually got paid versus what his perceived value going into the off season was. So I just found it stunning to me because not only is it a questionable fit in terms of salary, it was also a questionable fit in terms of personnel because you already had Ernie Clement who is, you know, they're not the exact same player but they are very similar. You could say the same thing about Santiago Espinal, I mean, who they had to trade

away. I'm not a big Espinal guy by any means but that's another guy who is a utility infielder. How many utility infielders, how many utility outfielders does one team need? And what was shocking to me about this Jays offseason is that, I mean, IKF is known for his glove. And what did this team struggle with throughout last year? Offense. And third base is supposed to be a spot on the diamond where you get a little bit of power, you get some production, you get some pop. The corners, yeah. Exactly. And you're not getting any of that

from Isaiah Connor-Faleffa this year. And that is just not the type of player he is. If he comes in and hits 240 this year, with just a handful of extra base hits, that's not on him. That's not a situation of a player coming in, signing a fat contract as a free agent, and then failing to live up to expectations.

This is who he is, and the Jays made that decision, just like they made that decision, just like they made the decision to kind of compile a lot of these type of players. It's how we've had a team. We've watched the team in this in this city go from, you know, 2021, the offensive juggernaut that was that team and the amount of power that that organization had at the time. They've since whittled away at the power and in their place. A lot of times have been these guys who have kind of come in Who were it's just a skill set a type of player that this organization loves to me

It was the most redundant signing of the offseason and the most overpriced one It's like 2021 was like they got out in the road in a Ferrari and it scared them Whoa, that was that was thrilling. But who let's get back in the camera, you know Like and when when you go a bit like there's Addison barger, there's Leo Jimenez, there's Damiano Palmigiani, there's a relvis mark, like all of the top prospects can be in field guys too. And Gregor makes a good point there too, because like I know that IKF is going to get shit on by fans. He shouldn't know.

He should get your money. Congrats. Good. And like, when, when players move like Gregor, I will get texts from people we know at the Yankees or the Red Sox. People had good things to say about IKF. And reporters aren't empty with praise when it comes to players. People love the guy in terms of who he is in the clubhouse and for what he actually does, his thing.

I just didn't get the Blue Jays going for that as the thing. It reminded me, a way different players. It reminded me of the Kendries Morales contract where they got way out real quick on something that they obviously thought they had kind of pegged his value. And then it was, Oh, and when they signed kinder, Falefa, I was certain something else had to happen. Like I thought that was a setup move for something else much larger to be happening.

Oh, Tony, of course. Oh yeah. What a, what a week. But it was, it it's completely surprised me because like Gregor said, this is third base. This is where you're supposed to be getting some, some offense, um, similar to the corner spots in the outfield. You know, I think Dalton brush will be better this year, but when you're trying to get a team's offense back, similar to the corner spots in the outfield. I think Dalton Verrush will be better this year, but when you're trying to get a team's offense back,

you're losing offense in like prime spots where you should be able to find it. It's, yeah, as a player like him, as a deal, as a fit, I did not get it and that really hasn't changed. But what did you think of Greg Orr's rant? Pretty good, right? 10 out of 10, yeah, a little less profane than what I normally get. Above average or below average?

Above average. I agree. And at third base with the Toronto Blue Jays in 2024, you guys both agree below average? Below. Hard below average. Because I'm tracking all this. A hard below. I don't have a symbol for that. Well below. Well below. Okay. My guess, and any, like will Justin Turner get a few spots? A few. A few looks at third base. Okay. Okay outfield you started talking about the outfield

But to talk to me about I guess springer Keir Meyer in Varsho Well, that's another one where I really hated what the Jays did this offseason. I mean The one that really confused me was bringing back Kevin Keir Meyer again. Nothing against the individual But Dalton Varsho, I mean the J Jays have already made the commitment to Varshow. There's no going back. They can't reverse that trade now. He is one of your starting outfielders and you're trying to make the best of that situation.

But to me, Dalton Varshow's strength would be if he was the starting center fielder in this team. Defensively, he is close to, if not just as good as Kevin Keirmeyer is, in my opinion, at this stage of their careers. And if you are going to have a glove-first guy who struggles offensively, it makes much more sense to put him in center field, maximize that defensive value, and then again use those corners to bring in some guys who are

more run producers, bringing guys who have a little bit more power. But to me, essentially they decided to run it back again with the same outfield and essentially an outfield that has two of the same guys. I mean, they're different, but they are similar in Varsho and Kiermaier and what they bring to the table and the value that they bring. And so I was stunned, as stunned by that as I was the J signing IKF. And to me, neither one of those moves make any sense. And I think it's the reason why we're gonna be talking about offense a lot this year, obviously just like we did throughout last year,

because those extra couple of bats aren't there. And I think at some point in time, if this team can hang on for the next few months, Atkins is gonna have no choice, but to address those two spots. He's gonna have to go back on what they did because they just don't have enough offense right now and they're not going to have enough offense.

So another mover, I thought they were going to make another move. Yeah. Like when, when Kiermaier was brought back and I think in our first talk with him, he was saying he wasn't sure about the playing time. I said, okay, maybe this makes sense all in on defense. And if somebody gets hurt, they have nobody. No, there's no outfield depth. I know Nathan Lucas is there good player, but if you're looking for a starter and some offense and yeah, it's great like a mortis Coryell, Jr Maybe it didn't need to play or the week anyways

But if you're looking to have offense your corner spots or where it comes, that's where you can hide a guy Yeah, it's great to have elite left field defense. Yeah, absolutely but Don't tell George Bell that okay. Yeah, go back to the Moreno trade. And I know that's a something that people love to beat on to the point where it's you're going to be hearing about it for a deck. Yeah. It's becoming difficult to even have intelligent conversations about that trade. But imagine telling me at the time, Hey,

like Varsha was going to come here and he's not even going to play center field. But what, right? Yeah. Then what? That's what the entire value is based on is is him being an elite center fielder. I remember having lots of chats with Hephz about this. He was supposed to play some catcher. Wasn't this the Varsha deal? Was that all bullshit? Like we were told that.

It was always more of a narrative than reality. Yeah, that was never really too, I mean, he was like- I don't believe the hype you're saying. He was an emergency catcher in the same way that IKF is an emergency catcher. I don't think either one, like something's gone seriously wrong if they were to get into a game behind the plate. To me though, it kind of goes

back to an overreaction that the Jays had like a couple of years ago when they had decided that, you know, that the talk around this team was that they struggled defensively and that at the plate, they were too, they were all too much. They were all, their hitters were too similar. So they didn't have any balance in the lineup. They're all a bunch of free swingers. You mean like Teosca Hernandez, these guys? Yeah, exactly. Teosca Hernandez, Lourdes Guerrero Jr.

Guys like that. But I think they overreacted to that and then decided that, okay, that's, that's the, a supposed weakness of our team right now. Let's go all in the other direction. And that, that's what brought the big pivot last year where it's okay, we need to bring in Keir Meyer. We need to bring in adult and Varsho.

We need to, we need to strengthen defense all around. Right. And that worked even, even less last year. Uh, but they had already kind of made that pivot. So now they, they, I feel like they kind of doubled down on that, that failed strategy, which to me is still an overreaction to the way this team played in 2021 and 2022. And it makes you have to win every game perfectly. Yeah. If you're going to play that, try to win three, two, four, three. You have to be perfect. No depth at all. And I thought maybe

it was that T Oscar and Gary L Jr. Just had too much fun playing this game of baseball. I was like, yeah, totally. I think they could use a little serious fucking sport and they're acting like this is some kind of a fun game. That's ridiculous. Okay. Average, below average or above average in the outfield in 2024? Below. I'll give it an average.

Maybe that's a bit kind. I lack the way to have two different answers on this. I'm going below here. Okay. DH, Justin Turner, who is somewhere between my age and Keegan Matheson's age. I like Turner enough he's looked good so far it's they're betting on him continuing this at 39 which is again a lot of hope maybe I like it a bit more than Brandon Belt last year because he can at least play a third if

you need I think the moment he like we saw in Tampa the moment he comes in at third base someone's gonna bunt at him ideally Yenis Cabrera doesn't end that play by hauling off on somebody but fine like I think he's a very good veteran piece to have came with good reviews from everybody he'll hit your 20 home runs better late than ever and you know absolutely I think he like Justin Turner is a good piece on a team that's trying to make a postseason run, you know, it's, if you weren't going to get like a higher end, more upside piece, I think he makes sense. Yeah, like not, not the most exciting, not the most

controversial, just kind of that tidy annual veteran DH signing like Belt was. Yeah, I, I, still available by the way. He is. I view it very similarly. I think it was a fine move. Not anything that's gonna blow people away, but I think he fits a need for what this team needed. I think he's a better fit overall than Brandon Belt, but I would have liked to move a lot more

if it came as a package of three or four guys that were being inserted to that lineup instead of him being the only big bet so Justin Turner at DH average below average or above average average yes slightly above well now do I do oh my goodness gracious okay you guys have to get on the same page okay starting pitchers maybe yeah run down the the current five in the rotation and what we can expect from them I know Manoah is still uh yeah what's the current five in the rotation and what we can expect from them. I know Manoah still You know, what's the current order? Bariyos Bassett kick?

Coochie Gozman Gozman Holden Francis Francis got lit up the other day I still think Bowden Francis is good like I still really like Bowden Francis and I think Gozman is a legit ace I think Bariyos is probably I think B think Barrios might have his best MLB season this year. I think it's a very good rotation. I think Alex Minow is a really awkward, clunky, squeaky wheel in all of this that's probably not done being awkward and uncomfortable, but as

a rotation as a whole I still think it's a legitimate strength. I think they'll need their depth more this year. It can't be as perfect as last year, but I think it's, if everything goes wrong it's not going to be because of the rotation I don't think. What say you Gregor Chisholm from the Toronto Star? It's an above-average rotation but I mean I have the same concerns that Keegan does with the with the health. I mean especially coming off a year last year where they avoided that almost entirely if you set aside whatever the situation with Alec Manoa was.

To me, I've used this comp before, but last year reminded me a lot of 2016. That Jay's team was supposed to go into that year as kind of an offensive juggernaut after the 2015 season. That never happened. The reason they made the playoffs that year was because of the rotation. And the reason the rotation was so good that year was not only the arms that they had in it, but it was the fact that everybody stayed healthy. They only essentially needed five starters that entire year until they brought in Francisco

Larianno at the deadline and then they went with six. But that was the year that Jay Hap had an incredible year and Sanchez won the ERA title. And so people went into 2017 just expecting more of the same. And what happened? The rotation completely cratered. And Sanchez was never the same after that. Hap still had a good year, but they had issues elsewhere throughout that rotation.

And I think it's a mistake for the Jays to just automatically assume that they're gonna get the same production that they did last year. I think the improved depth a little bit this year helps protect that against a bit. But I mean, here we are in the first week of the season talking about Baden-Francis who last year was a nice success story as a guy who

kind of really established himself as a swing man. But there's been a lot of long-term concern for him dating back a while now, but whether he has enough pitches to make it as a starter. And they kind of had to press him into that action, into that role this spring because they don't quite have that depth yet because the Ariel Rodriguez is still, you know, getting himself stretched out. Ricky Tiedemann is still a little bit farther away. So there are a lot of question marks after the top four in this rotation.

And I would take that even a step further. I don't think the J's can automatically assume that they know what they're going to get out of Usse Kikuchi this year. You look at Usse Kikuchi's entire career, it's been a roller coaster. So just because he was great last year, I'm not sold assume that they know what they're going to get out of Usaic Kikuchi this year. You look at Usaic Kikuchi's entire career, it's been a roller coaster. So just because he was great last year, I'm not sold the

fact that he has just suddenly figured this out because we've seen long stretches from him before when he was with Seattle, where he was really, really good. The J's signed him thinking that he was going to step into that role in 2023 and immediately become that guy. He didn't. He did last year. But, you know, I don't know. We'll see.

We'll see. I would still say it's an above average rotation. I just think there's a heck of a lot of risk there. And what is, what should be our expectation for Alec Manoa in 2024? I have no idea. I have no idea. Flip a coin. It's yeah. And that coin better have 20 sides on it. I don't know. Um, I mean right now he's building back up, but it's an awkward relationship. It's been a year of shoulder issues that don't appear to be showing up on MRIs. It's, I don't know what's going on there. I, and I know it's my job to know, but I feel like we've heard a lot from one side and not as much from another

side. And I think it's a situation I thought was improving at the start of spring training. Um, I don't know. Yeah. Well, it's your job to know, but it's also your job to not know. And yeah, it's also my job not to fill space with bullshit when I don't know, which I think is just as important. So that, that one's been a very strange situation. I have no idea then. Yeah. Blow smoke up my ass here here like Craig has been doing this whole episode. Just kidding here.

Okay, maybe quickly cover the relief pictures and then just before I play the lowest of the low to say goodbye, I will ask you about the day before TML X 14 last December and we'll revisit that day just really briefly on our way out here, but how oh yeah, starting pitchers above average average above above. Okay, you agree. Thank you for agreeing that makes my life easier. Now relief. How's the bullpen opens? Good. Yeah, I like the bullpen. You're also seeing the injury risk like you know, it was a lazy day late in camp and Schneider says okay, Romano has an elbow, Swanson has a forearm and like it sounds like they're

both coming back. Okay, but still that's like, ooh, that's scary. But they have depth. Jimmy Garcia I like, Chad Green, you go down the list, I like them. Tim Mays, like we'll see. Stuff isn't quite there early this year, but like I think it's a good bullpen. I think they built a sturdy bullpen.

It's another one that maybe not, might not be as good last year based just on health and averages, but I still think you're happy with the bullpen. Like I don't, pitching isn't going to be what screws this team, I don't think this year. No. And I think the fact that, you know, they're starting without two of their top guys in the bullpen

and they're kind of just doing, I think they're, they're fine right now. Yeah. It shows that it's the one area in the roster where they can afford to have some injuries and still get by. I mean, Chad Green being able to cut, he's essentially probably number three in your depth chart in the bullpen. And by the end of the year, he's probably going to be number two.

Um, but he probably entered the year a little bit below, uh, you know, Swanson and Romano, uh, and you have those guys out and he's able to step in and do the job just fine. And he's a guy who's got a, a very long proven track record with the Yankees. He's done it before. Um, I like the overall depth and I think that they have, that's the one spot in the minor leagues where they're going to be able to continue to backfill a little bit. So I don't have really, and even with the injuries, I don't have concerns about the bullpen.

Who is Nate Pearson at this point? I feel like sort of like the Guerrero question, like who is Nate Pearson? We've been hearing about this guy for about 14 seasons now, I feel. Yeah, I have to check the math on the one writing those stories for 14 seasons. Like, is he now a veteran? Is he 35 years old? What's going on? He's an old young man, something like that, but it's uh, someday he's gonna have like a 68 inning 1.7 ERA season someday. Yep. I don't think it could come four teams from now, it could come this year.

Wow. But it's still like the talent's still there, you know, it's in it like Greg was saying about Vlad, like it's it's all relative right so if he was a scrappy 19th round pick that kind of made it for himself people would be high on the guy since he was the former number 10 prospect in all of baseball it seems like a disappointment but it's all about managing expectations. It's there like it'll happen someday but right now he feels like kind of like the lottery guy in the bullpen. I'll just add quickly one part to that I do think the

ship has already sailed on on Pearson being able to become the guy that we thought he was gonna be able to become because he can't start now. I mean, his starting days are done at this point in time. Even if he were to switch teams in like the next few months somehow, I don't really see him starting over again as a starter. And once you move from that starter to the reliever role, your overall upside just plummets.

And so yeah, he will probably at some point in time, you know, have a couple good years as a run as a high leverage reliever. He might eventually become a closer and have some success there. But that is still a huge, huge fall off from where he was supposed to be. I mean, this guy wasn't just supposed to be a good starting pitcher. He was supposed to be a generational type ace. And I remember going down and watching some of his starts in the minor leagues in Buffalo. And I've just never really seen a guy dominate the way he did. I mean, he reminded me of Justin Verlander at the time in the way that his velocity would increase as he got deeper into starts. He had the offerings to really,

you know, really have success as a starter. And the fact that the Jays are now essentially gonna have to settle for him at most Being you know kind of a middle inning reliever Is a huge disappointment and I just don't know how he ever gets back to where we thought he might be speaking of huge Disappointments. Okay. So one of the men was it Robert Hirsevik from the Dragons Den? Coming off a private plane. There's a disappointment for you. Okay, so TML X 14 was last December. It was at Palmer's kitchen in Mississauga So I'm now gonna take this opportunity to tell you both Gregor and Keegan that TML X 15 is June

27 from 6 to 9 p.m. At Great Lakes Brewery. I know you've been there Keegan. I like that so the topical You got to be there if you can. I don't know the Blue Day schedule and all that stuff that might work, might get in the way. But if available, I would love to see you both at TMLX 15, June 27, Palma Pasta will feed us and Great Lakes will buy you your first beer. I love it.

It's the day before my birthday, so I might just keep the party going. There we go. That'll be the start of it. And I'll just roll it in the next day. Okay, you want me to blow your mind right now? That is my birthday. June 27th just keep the party going. Like I'll just, that'll be the start of it. And I'll just roll it in. Can you blow your mind right now? Uh, that is my birthday. June 27th. So look at us birthday twins here one day. What did, what?

It's a milestone birthday too. So I know pressure, but you might. 40. Yeah. 40 years ago, maybe. Okay. So, uh, the reason I brought up TMLX 14 is because Stephen Brunt was there and we we opened that recording at Palmas Kitchen Talking about what happened the previous day It was the previous day that there was a flight from California to yyz And I believe it was I want to you tell me if I get the wrong names, but John Marosi I believe tweeted about the fact that Otani was on his way to

Toronto. I got very excited. Some people that I expected better of, but not quite at the level of John Marosi, but I know like an Adam Seaborn tweeted that the Rogers had scheduled like a 4pm press conference. So all these pieces are coming together online. I'm watching the press conference that we didn't get to know about somehow. So, uh, yeah, well, this is why I'm glad you guys are here to tell us how it transpired for you. But of course, meanwhile, Kikuchi's got reservations, I think, at a restaurant in downtown Toronto for 50 people. And there is a plane. I mentioned- It sounds like a fever dream. Like, this shit doesn't sound real even a few months later. And I mentioned Robert Hercevik from Dragon's Den that there his we didn't know it was his plane but

we did track in real time we were tracking the flight that we believed Otani was on because he was coming to Toronto for that press conference of Rogers to announce he was gonna be a Blue J and then he was gonna have that celebratory dinner with Kukuchi and everybody else like this was all happening all because of John Marosi I'm blaming him but tell me from your perspective a Toronto Star journalist and an MLB.com journalist, was there any moment during any of that where you had even like, oh, maybe this is happening? I want to know the truth. How did you feel during this speculative nonsense that we all got wrong? So at no point in time did I think the Jays were going to actually be able to land Ohtani

until that tweet from John Morosi. Once John Morosi said he's on the plane, that is the first time where I said, okay, wow, this is happening because the only way he's coming back to Toronto in that scenario in my mind is if he's coming to sign the contract and do some sort of announcement type deal because the ballpark was being renovated. He had already done the tour of the minor league facilities. There was really no reason for him to be on his way to Toronto, unless it was for some sort of announcement.

So once John Morosi tweeted that out and I had been watching the plane tracker a little bit before as well, because it had been a story since I believe the night before is when I first saw it in Twitter and people had done that when he made the trek to Dunedin and there was some truth in there. And there was the wrong report from that LA, I'm forgetting his name, that he had signed. Like there was already that. Yeah, there was already some stuff. Like a Dodgers blog. So it was, yeah.

So I mean, early that morning I had been sending out some messages trying to get responses from people to see if there is anything going on. And I mean, it was a real cone of silence, understandably so the the initial part. Jay's not wanting to say anything. But then it really went off the rails with Morosi. And to me, that was where things got really bad on both from a journalism standpoint, because I still find that to be inexcusable. I still think there should have been more sources. That's a story you absolutely need to get right. And I'm embarrassed in journalism a lot these days at the rush to just throw stuff out there in order to get likes, in order to get attention

for yourself because you want to get it first. Exactly. And then the flip side of that is I think the Jays also did themselves a huge disservice because all they needed to do was correct. They don't need to do it to me. They don't need to do it with Keegan. They've got all kinds of people on the speed dial at Sportsnet. They could have easily given the heads up to somebody to be like, okay, you know what? Otani's not on that plane. We're still hoping to land them, but this plane story is nothing. That sat forever. I mean that was like the five-hour flight and nobody knew for sure until Robert Hershbeck got off the

plane and there were there were photographers because we had one there from the Toronto Star who had gone out to the airport to try and get visuals of Otani potentially coming off a plane and it's the Dragon's Den guy so I mean it's a huge malpractice and journalism to begin with and then I think it was you know irresponsible on the J's part just in terms of managing their own message and expectations to not be like okay guys by the way that's not Otani we would still like to sign him but that is definitely not him It's the proper way to do it. You can say that without saying hey, no, we missed the guy

Yeah, say still involved still love the player, but that went on all day Yeah, and much like Gregor I had texts out calls out and complete radio silence. Like there's there's there's times where We can quickly be very aware that everyone's been told, shut the fuck up, don't talk to anybody. And that was clearly one of those days. And I get it. That's part of the game. No problem. But nobody was getting back to anybody. And it lasted all day. And I was thinking about this the other day and I showed Gregor this, but, um, like the inside journalism part of this, Mike, is that at MLB.com,

we do most of our works just in Google Documents Which means that my editor can jump in and we we can kind of I'm in one right now access like that Everything we do is through Google Docs When I sat down for opening day, I opened up the Google Doc I normally write my game stories in and in that was my story bluejay Sinotani Wow, because it got to the point where we had to have one ready yeah, and that doesn't mean I thought it was that it had happened, but like I've, I've written obituaries for people who I still see and say hello to,

like we've got to be ready for shit in my job. You know, I'll never tell them that I've written their obics. It's weird. But like we, it was to the point where we had to have that Otani story ready to pull the trigger and shoot it out the moment it was official, but it wasn't, you know, it was at that 90% range, whatever you want to call it. And zero is it? Yeah, yeah. Zero. Yeah. But it was wild for me opening that story and seeing it. Like, you know, this is, you know, one of the biggest moments in organization history, blah, blah, blah. And they never happened. They really did it. That was one of the biggest moments in organization history, blah, blah, blah. And they never happened. They really did it.

That was one of the more frustrating days, hopefully, I'll ever have in this job. The reason I wanted to have this conversation with you two was because I'm just a fan and I really do pride myself in being kind of a realist and I don't believe some, you know, this guy in his basement, this unknown person who tracked me, I don't believe anybody. I take everything off a grain of salt and like, I'm not going to overreact, but the John Morosi tweet is what sucked me in. And then once you're bought in from somebody you think has, uh, journalistic integrity and wouldn't tweet such a thing unless he had corroborated some sources. So once that happened, I start to believe it could be

true. And then all the other bullshit around it starts to seem to flesh out the story. There was a former morning show host in this market who tweeted video of Otani landing at Pearson. Like remember this? Okay. Yeah. Not to be named. But then meanwhile, this is where it ties into what you guys were talking about with Rogers could basically say like, we're still involved, but to our knowledge, Otani is not on his way to Toronto. They could say that because a station owned by the same company the fan 590 literally Changed their schedule that day which was a Friday and they put Blair and Barker on for an unscheduled

baseball Blue J talk simply to kind of You know take this hype machine and kind of kick it up a notch. I don't know if it helped sell tickets I hope they did sell some tickets from this, but that Blair and Barker unscheduled surprise show was fuel on the fire because you're thinking, oh, like surely somebody from that department would just tip them off that like to our knowledge, you know, Otani is not actually on this plane that's been tracked the whole thing. It is a bit like a fever dream.

And then, you know, we could we could do a whole episode on what's going on with Otani today. That's a whole that's a tracked. The whole thing, it is a bit like a fever dream. And then, you know, we could, we could do a whole episode on what's going on with Otani today. That's a whole, that's a whole episode, but I was dying to know what does an MLB.com guy in a Toronto star guy, what is going on that day for them? Are they skeptical or does John Marosi tweet suck them in just like a sucked being because a last point on this, I feel like I'm doing my rant now, but there were people on this Saturday when we realized,'m doing my rant now, but there were people, uh, on that Saturday when we realized, Oh, he's a Dodger. You think you, I think while I was recording that TML X 14 episode, he put on Instagram,

he was an LA Dodger and we announced it like, okay, right. Which was always how it was going to come out. And I'm the most private guy on the planet, you know? And, and yes, skeptical, you know, it's certainly, I followed everything like everyone else, but also there's like a lot of the times if me and Gregor aren't saying or tweeting something, it's not because we've just fucked off and we're at the cottage. We don't have cottages.

We're modern sports journalists. But it's, it's because we're intentionally not saying something sometimes because, and through that entire day, like there was a reason I wasn't writing report stories off of this and stuff like that, but it's completely understandable for the fans to have gone crazy about that. And it all started with that. Was it Hornstrow? Was that, that LA writer, who I think is a BBWA writer. Yeah, that's, there's also that.

You're hearing this from BBWA writers and our job is to be correct, is to bat a thousand. And a fan's job is to give a shit. And this would have been the coolest thing to ever, like outside of the world series, what bigger moments would there have been than Ohtani signing in Toronto? So when fans are getting this from BBWA writers who are the Hall of Fame voters who vote on awards, when you've got that little rectangle around your neck, you're supposed to be spot on, out of thousand. But there were people after it was revealed this was all a hoax. This never happened. This was a fever dream. There were a lot of people sort of like saying like, you idiots, like of course Ohtani wasn't coming to Toronto. This was never going to happen. I didn't believe it for a second. I can't believe there was a moment on that Friday

when you believed Ohtani was on his way to Toronto to sign with the Toronto Blue Jays. You stupid idiots. This is sort of a consensus out there. Like there was that. And as fans, a lot of us, and I know I did, we were like, oh, like you kind of feel dumb. Like it's like, oh, it's like, like, like Lucy's holding that football and Charlie Brown is going to kick it. But every time she's put it away and I feel talking to you two right now, I feel a little bit better that, you know, Marosi is a guy that Sportsnet has on as an MLB insider. This isn't some schlub in his basement

bullshitting and making things up. I don't feel so bad that I bit on that Friday. And it made a hell of a story on Saturday when Brunt came by to talk it up on TMLX14. And you're right, there was a lot of judgment it seemed like in the 24 hours or so that judge followed. And I don't understand that because there is media outlets who are making mad dashes to Pearson to try and get the story. Keegan's talking about him writing the story. I wrote a column that afternoon as well about how Tony was coming to Toronto.

Again, obviously, this is behind scenes journalism. It wasn't something for publication. It was something to have in my back pocket because there is two things together. There's like the multiple reports from BBWA members. And then there's the fact that the Blue Jays aren't returning messages. And a lot of times when they don't return messages, it's for a reason. It's not going to be like, oh yeah,

we're gonna give it to you for sure. We signed him the press conferences in two hours. I mean, that's usually when they go dark, that you think that there's something behind it. And so of course, we're sitting there and I was in complete shock, but there was about a two hour period there where I'm like, oh my goodness,

this is actually happening. I can't believe that they are signing him. Now, the difference between my reaction to that and how some other people handled themselves was that I just didn't automatically start tweeting that stuff and just throwing it out there to add even more fuel in the fire.

But you had a lot of these other people who were just throwing, anyways. The long story short, the fans have nothing to be ashamed about with that. Like there's, there were some, you know, some, I wouldn't have done writing reporting on the night before just because there was a plane leaving from LA to Toronto to me doesn't mean anything.

And yeah, maybe that night I was like rolling my eyes a little bit being like, I can't believe that people are tracking it this much I'm with you. I was rolling my eyes that night as well Yeah, but then the following day, you know And if fans want to get excited and all that that is their right to follow the planes do whatever the heck you want I thought that was a little bit silly, but then the next day I mean once you start having people whose job it is there to be right telling you that it's happening I mean if you you got a MOB network MO MOB writer

Who's been a columnist for a very long period of time telling you he's on the plane, right? He is on that plane if John Morosi is telling you that and that morning had been on MOB network going around doing the rounds Or whatever. Well, I mean why? There's a lot of times I don't put stock into reports from Rossi. That was a morning where I did put stock into it because it wasn't just like a vague rumor. It wasn't just like, oh, the Jays are interested in this player, and it's hard to prove whether or not that's right.

He said this guy was physically on the plane. That is that is not there's nothing indisputable about that. And you got it wrong. And we knew there was a plane. Yeah, there was already a plane. We'd established the existence of the plane. The plane exists. It is on its way to YYZ.

Yeah. Yeah. And we now have credit, like you said, though, with all those bananas week, like going back to being at the winter meetings and we're interviewing Ross on Zoom and he's in front of a blank wall, not saying where he is. I'll just I'll never forget that week and I always remember that day of the news shit show because it was my girlfriend's birthday that day and she had organized us going for drinks at the bar I frequent down by the ballpark and

like some of her friends were coming I was going to meet the friends and I'm having a meltdown panicking how am I gonna do this coming. I was going to meet the friends and I'm having a meltdown, panicking. How am I gonna do this? I think I sent her to the bar with my credit card and said, I'll get there eventually. And just- You did, I remember you telling that story. Yeah.

And I just said, take my card, buy all the drinks on me. I don't know. And I'm trying to explain to her who Shohei Otani is, cause God bless her, she doesn't like baseball. He's a unicorn, babe. And just sitting home watching this unfold, it's like, I even think, I haven't put steady thought into it like this in a unicorn, babe. And just sitting home watching this unfold, it's like, I even think, I haven't put steady thought into it like this

in a month or two. Right. It's five times more bizarre now. Let's write a book about it. That I'm looking back on it. Can we write a book on that day? Maybe I'll drop my story into the book. Here's what, no, that might piss people off.

The three of us can collaborate on a book about that day. They made a documentary about the seventh inning of the, I'm wearing the Bat Flip T-shirt rightshirt yeah the poster can be Ross in front of that white wall mystery parts unknown it all seems so ridiculous now doesn't it like it just doesn't make any sense and though the point that I keep going back to is is there is this expectation for a little while that the Jays are signing Otani and that they had this legitimate chance and you look at what Otani ended up you know he goes to the Dodgers, the Dodgers made like

four or five, six significant moves after that. So the point that I still can't, when the Jays are trying to pitch Otani, they're like, and he asked what comes next. That's the part where the sales pitch doesn't matter to me. They're like, oh, well we got Isaiah Kiner-Falefa coming in next week. Like, oh, meanwhile the Dodgers are adding like like six other all-stars spending like 500 more million dollars and the Jays are like, well, we've got about 10 million left. We're going to divvy it up between four utility infielders.

Come on to Toronto. Like on what planet was that going to work? Like, this is all benefit of hindsight stuff. I realized that I get it, but like these, they were clearly used. And I think if there was another off season where the Jays weren't up against like a big market, like the LA Dodgers or it had been someone else, they would have had a realistic shot to sign him.

They did not have a realistic shot to sign him this year. It's easy to say that now. You brought the fire today, Gregor. Honestly, I love this very much. This is your second visit to the basement, but it won't be your last. You were fantastic. And Keegan, Mr. Consistency, always amazing. But you two together, this is the magic formula. I think every season, every time, every early April, every year, we got to get Gregor Chisholm Keegan, Mr. Consistency, always amazing. But you two together, this is the magic formula. I think every season, every time, every early April, every year, we got to get Gregor Chisholm from the Toronto Star

and Keegan Matheson from mlb.com together in the basement just to shoot the breeze about the team and other things. I love this very much. I'm into it. Thank you. And anything for lasagna and beer. I'm pretty excited for this lasagna. I haven't had time with this lasagna for a while. But yeah, and I was standing on the way over here, Mike. I'm in excited for this lasagna. Your company on top of that. I've been talking about this lasagna for a while.

Absolutely, but yeah. And I was standing on the way over here, Mike. I'm in between road trips. Like just got back from Tampa, I'm going to New York tomorrow. I don't buy groceries. Right, no, this is gonna save you. This is my evening right here. Invite me over, okay.

I was telling the story on the way in. The last time I came here had this lasagna and I loved it so much I went, I had never been to Palma's Pasta before. And like a month later I'm like, you know what? I'm going to buy one of those lasagnas. Look at that effective marketing. There you go.

It works. Tell Anthony Petrucci at Palma's pasta, but they will be feeding us at TMLX15. And that is the day before your birthday, Gregor, June 27. And I would love to see you guys there. And thanks for doing this. Thank you. Thank you.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,465th show. Remember you can read all of Gregor's words. You can read it in the Toronto Star. Subscribe. My guest tomorrow, by the way, is not Keegan, but Keenan, Ed Keenan. Oh yeah. So a lot of Toronto Star people dropping by. You can follow, so read, yes, read Gregor and the Toronto Star and at mlb.com Reid Keegan. They're both great writers covering our baseball team

here. You can follow me on Twitter and bluesky at Toronto Mike. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. You guys got your beer. Palma Pasta. Don't leave without the lasagnas. They're in my freezer right now. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. That's where you go. If you have old electronics old cables You don't throw it in the garbage those chemicals end up in our landfill You go to recycle my electronics dot CA and find a place you can drop them off to be properly recycled Raymond James Canada subscribe to the advantaged investor podcast the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team May 12 everybody 2 p.m. Be there.

Rod Black and more. It's going to be great. Rob Butler manages that team by the way. World Series champion and FOTM. Monera Season 6 is dropping now. Yes we are open. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community.

See you all tomorrow when my guest is the Toronto Stars, Edward Keenan. And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Shakhtakur But I like it much better going down on you