Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Hawksley Workman: Toronto Mike'd #957

Episode Date: November 30, 2021

Mike catches up with Hawksley Workman before The Hawk kicks out his five favourite alt rock/pop Christmas songs.

Toronto Mike is brought to you by the Yes, We Are Open podcast, a Moneris podcast production telling the stories of Canadian small businesses and their perseverance in the face of overwhelming adversity. Subscribe to this podcast at yesweareopenpodcast.com. Welcome to episode 957 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop. Access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits

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Group, who's ripping up the GTA real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Hawksley Workman. Hawksley,

as you slurp that coffee there, is that coffee or tea? It's tea, it's tea. What kind of tea do you drink? I'm drinking orange pico tea. It's PG Tips, you know, a British favorite. Well, that's fantastic. How is the patch these days? How's Peterborough?

Peterborough is wonderful. I mean, you know, I love it more and more every day because it's the perfect size city where you get city amenities, but it's also not a maniacal place. It's 10 minutes to everywhere, you know? See, I'm sure it's lovely. I haven't spent any real time there.

I actually have neighbors who live across the street and whose home has been in many a photo taken by the official TMDS tree. They actually are moving today. This is moving day for them, and they're moving to Peterborough. And I'm sure it's wonderful, but here's what's tainting me.

I recently unearthed the very first Humble and Fred podcast, which had been banned from the internet for howard gratuitous gratuitously dropping the c word and uh i dug it up and listened back to it and shared it and in that episode freddie p talks about when he was program director for the wolf in peterborough fred patterson says he lived in peterborough for a little while and he says he always dreamt one day maybe he'd retire to Peterborough. And he said his experience in Peterborough

was such that he'll never live there. Like he just shit all over that beautiful city. So it's tainted my perception of Peterborough. But you're telling me it's a great place. And I should be- Look, are we on the record right now? Or we're not on the record? Yeah, this is on the record, of course.

Well, I mean, every town has its own issues. This town is a very, from what I can tell being an outsider, this is my wife's town, and her family goes deep here. So I feel like when I interact with the Kavanaugh clan, it's an old East City family. It's a proud working-class family. I get a sense of an ancient struggle in this town that is still playing out.

Is that religious-based? Is it like a... There's absolutely the Protestant-Catholic divide, but there's also a devout working-class ethos. And I do believe there's sort of an innate hatred of Toronto. You know, Toronto went through COVID, and the numbers were exploding. The numbers never really exploded here,

which said to me that there's not, there's very little intermingling. I mean, we had some numbers from time to time through the last couple of years, but nothing like Toronto. And we're just 50 minutes down the road. So I got this sense like, yeah, that energy of like, it's us and them

is still a part of, it's still a part of this place you know so you're basically walking around going i'm from huntsville man i'm from huntsville i'm just i try to be neutral in everything we're living in very political very divisive very angry times and i i don't want to be on anybody's team i haven't heard anybody say anything really that sounds like man you're the smart one that I want you to lead me. I think I'm just, for the time being, I'm being my own person. But I think this town is fascinating.

I think there's a lot of rough stuff still. There's a lot of, you know, what has happened with the working class, as we know, is there's not a lot of work left. So there's a lot of folks in this town and there's not a lot to do. And I see there's a lot of addiction and there's problems in that regard. And I find that there's that dark part of Peterborough can sometimes be a little overwhelming for me. I must admit. Well, you mentioned addiction and not that you were addicted, but let's get this awkward part out of the way.

Because as you know, I like to promote a local craft brewery that I enjoy called Great Lakes Brewery. But I'm very proud of you. And tell me how many months or years, I don't know how you measure it, but how long have you been sober for? Yeah, well, it's like two years and three months, two years and two months, thereabouts. Two years and three months, two years and two months, thereabouts. And I even quit smoking weed as well, which was another sort of like, all of this was in many ways to create a buffer between me and myself because I'm a difficult person to live with. I mean, you can ask my wife, but I'm the first authority on the matter.

Put her on the... It's an ugly place in there, Mike. But, you know, clarity is... It's tricky stuff. It's tricky stuff. Right. I always had trouble sleeping, and a lot of it is just due to the clatter of the inner conversation. And, you know, I'm working through that now.

I'm 46. It's time to, you know, and I had a mom who was very much, you know, a self-reflective person like, you know, you should learn to know yourself better. You should improve. Like it's not like I came from something where this is all new to me. It's just that there's no such thing as a rival in this life. Like you don't, oh, finally, I figured it out, and now it's time for me to just rest thing as a rival in this life like you don't oh finally i figured

it out and now it's time for me to just rest the rest of the days you know like this thing is as you know it's ongoing so once you it's like owning any anybody owns a house knows that once you get the faucet fixed the the washing machine's going to break and once that's fixed you know the eaves of troughs are falling down and once that's fixed it's time to fix the roof and once you know what i mean it's never ending. They tell you in the bank commercial that you're richer than you think and that we can come and help you own a house

because it's the ultimate dream and it's all you're ever going to want. But once you have that dream, you realize that dream is a constant state of falling apart. And it's your job from thenceforth to be building and putting that dream back together. It's a daily grind.

Shout out to Kim Stockwood. Yeah, I don't, is she still the voice? I don't think so, but man. Oh, I thought she was like, had that job for life. I's a daily grind. Shout out to Kim Stockwood. Yeah. I don't, is she still the voice? I don't think so, but man. Oh, I thought she was like, had that job for life.

I thought that was her. I think it was, but I, cause I know Kim and I know that she had it for a long time, but I, and I know her voice well

cause we, you know, there was lots of times where we socialized and I've heard that, I don't watch the TV that much, but I feel like I've heard the commercial

and I don't know if it's her. Okay. Now, lots of ground to cover here, Hawk. You know, I love you, man. Like I, heard that, I don't watch the TV that much, but I feel like I've heard the commercial, and I don't know if it's her. Okay, now, lots of ground to cover here, Hawk. You know I love you, man. Like, I wish you had, like, a Hawksley Night in Canada podcast. You know this. We've had private conversations. I just think you need to be broadcasting somewhere.

But before we get to that point, I just want you to know, you sound fantastic, which is what I care about, because this is a podcast. But on my end, I'm just letting you know your video is frozen. So what do I do about this, Mike? Do I refresh something? Do I turn something off and on? What do I do?

Why don't you turn off your camera and then turn it back on? You think it's the camera? Well, just, you know, in Zoom, I mean. In Zoom, you have video. You can stop video. Oh, in Zoom. Stop video. Is that what the kids do?

And then turn it back on just oh my gosh okay look at I'm gonna send you an invoice for that I'm gonna send you an invoice okay oh my goodness I didn't know it'd be that simple I thought oh lord here we go again that probably would have fixed your problem yesterday too like that try that oh you did try that okay

I have a wonderful note from another fantastic FOTM. I record regularly with a gentleman. His birth certificate says Neil Morrison, but I don't know that man. I know Brother Bill. He says, when I mentioned that the Hawk is returning, he wrote,

my ex-roommate is back next week. Don't forget to ask him if he's ever going to repay me for taking back his empty wine bottles. There's something encoded there that I might not fully understand. We may have had a drunken discussion. I know I was in line to see the Tragically Hip in Vancouver one time

with Brother Bill, and I feel like some of the Billy Talent guys were there. This is back in the years where I was heroically indulging, and maybe something came out of there. I also wrote a song about carrying wine bottles. Maybe there's a thing. You know, Brother Bill also goes back to a time in Toronto media where, like, I was very involved in Toronto and felt the presence of, like, you know, that great great wonderful stretch of time with

the edge and what have you like just feeling like there was a toronto-based media that really you know that you could connect to and he was you know he was one of the archetypes you know in that without a doubt and who remind me lead singer of the billy talon what's his name again i know this is uh oh goodness you put me on the spot here. It's Ben. Ben Kowalczyk. He also was working at the Edge in those early days. So there's a connection there. And this is in Vancouver, but Brother Bill was still living here, right?

It was at Richards on Richards, and it was some tragically hip event. I kind of remember that it was a multi-night thing. It may have been the World Container era. I was in Vancouver for some reason. And back in those days, it felt like I was in Vancouver quite a bit. And I like those

Billy Talon guys, man. You know, when I went to radio, when I was assigned to Universal and went to radio with a song called Anger Is Beauty, which was a mistake first single to go with, but it was the radio guy and he was determined and it was like we're going to rock radio we're gonna we're gonna blow this up and my my song anger is beauty went to radio the same week as billy talent's try honesty went to radio and i remember thinking holy shit like we are dead we're dead this is the best rock song i've ever heard you know and and so it was like it was the beginning of the end but you know i and so it was like it was the beginning of the end but you know i think those billy talon guys are mega so and i'm still a fan no me too i

think they're fantastic so brother bill still a big hawk fan and vp is here from him yeah uh one day i got to get you guys on together i like to match you up with my uh my friends i put you on with ben muraghi a few times he's great get you back on a brother. But Tyler, VP of sales, he wants me to tell you that you were incredible at NewsAid. This is the, yeah, this is the real statics. Dave Bedini's West End Phoenix. Well, bless him, Tyler. Like I, Dave, as Dave will do,

sort of like dictated what I was going to sing and do there. He said, do you want to do this thing? You're going to be singing this song. And I kind of thought, oh, like maybe I get a choice, but it was like, no, that's what you're going to do. But you know what? It was a stroke of brilliance. And that whole day that Dave put together was a stroke of brilliance, in my opinion. It was ego-free in a way, because I think he had largely curated it. It was a stacked list of performers, of Toronto luminaries and famous people and then people like me even.

And it was like, none of us could sing our own songs. None of us were in the presence to contain our own power by virtue of our ego and our recent hit single or whatever. We were up singing U2 songs, Police songs, Peter Gabriel songs. And it was like, it was also one of the first times that the Toronto music community had been out together in about two years. So it was a beautiful, remarkably warm early October Saturday. And what a day.

Like that day will go down in history. People will talk about that day because it was remarkable on so many fronts. And more power to Dave Bedini and the West End Phoenix folks for putting that together. Because honestly, that was a charmed moment. And I was really grateful to be involved. Well, I need to be told about these events so that I can set up my... I thought I was going to see you. I honestly did.

I thought, you're a bike ride away. We were in the West End. I know. I know. I thought I was going to see you. I honestly did. I thought you're your bike ride away. We were in the West End. I know. I know. I wasn't there, unfortunately, but I would have set up my remote studio and I would have chatted. First of all, that bill,

I think 90% of that bill are FOTMs. Like if you start running down the names, there's a lot of FOTMs on that bill. I should have been there recording live from the scene. People could kind of drop by. I've done this before with the party for Marty at the opera house, and it would have been fantastic. So tell Bedini he fucked up next time he calls Tron away.

Oh, Tyler, by the way, Tyler also wants you to do a U2 cover album. Oh, well. You're going to think about it. What do you say about that? You can noodle that one. I can't do that, but I can. You know what? That's a band. What a complicated band to love, you know?

I loved them for so much of my life, and I think for a lot of people, they're just not a band I can listen to anymore. But not even the old stuff? Because I find I can go back to the old stuff. Yeah. war is like a remarkably artful album with with that electric fiddle and fiddle and uh I mean honestly I know it's the 30th anniversary of Octung Baby I remember my babysitter and her boyfriend who were

became very very like big pals of mine and important people in my life took me to see the uh the Octung Baby tour at the CNE grandstand and it was changed my life and that people in my life took me to see the uh the octung baby tour at the cne grandstand and it was changed my life and that band changed my life but something happened after beautiful day where they just made music that didn't mean anything to me anymore and and that's but i'm one of those people because i'm in the music business i consider the idea of loyalty you know because we are sort of hooked on our uh our british backgrounds that as soon as an artist that we love makes a mistake they they're out, you know? Except for a very few, like Neil Young,

who all he does is make stuff that's unlistenable and then occasionally puts out something we love and he's been deified. But beyond that, you know, we're sort of these people that, oh, that guy, he fucked it up and now I don't care. Look, I still want to love my heroes. I'm not interested in damning them

to some sort of distant part of my forgotten past. Because honestly, I believe in the voices that shaped and changed me when I was young. I believe that those people are still thinking righteous and good thoughts and are still in the business to try and make something wonderful. It's just, it doesn't make any sense to me anymore. Well, it's like that, I think it's from Batman or something, but you know, was it die a hero or live long enough to become the villain? Like part of U2's curse

is that the longevity is incredible. Like this side of the Rolling Stones, who can do that, right? Like they were making music, they were recording music in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and they had hits all in every decade probably. But you look at the Beatles

who are very in the news all of a sudden because of the Get Back doc, which I've seen the first episode, and it's wild stuff. But they had this, let's say recording-wise, they got a seven-year, it's like a comet, man. That wasn't here very long, but damn, did it burn bright. The band died as heroes. And I think that in many ways,

we've constructed the archetype of what we believe to be sort of the rock and roll trajectory by some of those seminal figures. And I think when you see, you know, the glib rock and roll critics and journalists and what they sort of demand of people is that you need to follow an exact narrative arc that's already happened. That's why critics just hate you too, because they've

broken the mold. They didn't die. They didn't do what you're supposed to do, which is follow the narrative arc of that archetype and burn bright and then die away. It's hard to be great all those years. I think it's hard to be great when you're super rich. I think It's hard to be great all those years. I think it's hard to be great when you're super rich. I think it's hard to be great when you're probably surrounded by people who are saying yes, yes, yes. I mean, I've thought about this because this is the kind of things that pollute my mind all the time is how does U2 end up being U2? When you've been this famous for this long, this rich for this long, how can you have gone from making some of the most important music in the 20th century to making music that, I mean,

or is it just that I've changed? Are they still every bit as in touch with their creative selves as they always were, and it's just me that, for whatever reason, my ear's gone tin to them because I'm on to something else. I'm not sure. Again, this is what I live with constantly in my mind. It's like an abacus of the zeitgeist. What is happening?

Why is one stock up and one stock down? Okay, well, that brain you're describing, which is not dissimilar to my very own cranium here, is why you need a regular broadcasting outlet. And I'm not here to do a big sales pitch. I don't care if you do it with me or with anyone else. I want to do it. I'm afraid that I might say something that is going to turn people off of me if i'm being

honest because you know my songs i was i was having this discussion with my wife just you know because here i said i'm a i'm a i'm a different person in many ways than i was when i wrote my first songs 25 26 27 years ago um i wish everybody to be different people than they were when they were in their late teens, early 20s. That's the hope. I don't think that locking into a version of your young self just to ride out the rest of your days is necessarily going to present you with the most valuable life.

But with that said, how do I honor my older self and the folks who followed my career all these years? How do I honor that and honor the person that wrote that music while becoming the person that I currently am with the thoughts that I think? We live in a very complicated world and everybody has picked a side. I've picked no sides. I don't want to be on anybody's side. I'm not a joiner. I never was. was, but I'm watching a very complicated, very harried atmosphere of distrust and anger and

disharmony. And it's, I mean, I'm invested in this role because I'm a participant in it, and I feel like I've been a culture maker for long enough to think that I may have one even like small drip of influence within the context of this conversation, but I don't know how to enter into it sometimes because it's so heated, it's so irrational, it's so negative, it's so hateful that I'm like, man, I don't, I'm a soft, soft, porous person who doesn't deal well with a pylon, and the world is a pylon. And I think too, you know, I grew up when we used to say the Lord's Prayer in school. And I know that, you know, that the state and the church have been divided and kids don't do that. But I often think when I look at Twitter,

I think, did none of these people read the story of, you know, he who has no sin shall cast the first stone? Like that Twitter is the longest lineup of people ready to cast the first stone that I've ever seen in my life. And it's a terrifying thing to behold. It is. I can't figure it out. How can there be this much righteousness in any one person? How can any one person think that they know the whole thing?

I mean, it's bonkers to me. The older I get, the more I know that I don't know anything at all. And so I have to sit from that standpoint and try to figure out, I'd love to be a voice like you. You know, I've told you, I've spoken to you at length about my love of radio, about my love of this format. I find I listen to podcasts more than I listen to music, and I'm sure a lot of people are with me. I think we've left the age of music and music's importance and I think the business did it to itself. But I feel like yes I would love to have a voice. I would love to do the job you do. This is partly why I

quit the weed because I wanted to be as absolutely 100% sharp as I could be and can be and know that I am. But I have gone some length to dull myself, not because of my presentation to everybody else, but because it's fucking hard to live inside this old nagaruni some days, if you know what I'm saying, Mike. Okay, what I want to say to you is what is cool right now is authenticity,

and I think your fans, even the ones from the Anger is Beauty days and earlier, your fan base wants Hxley workman to be hoxley workman and whatever that is whatever that looks like in 2021 be your authentic self and in terms of twitter and these haters they've always been there now they have a voice and that's what the block button's for man i block and mute like a mofo uh and i can show you how in in five easy steps i've only ever blocked once i don't twitter for me is i i don't engage in anything political on twitter i try to add beauty

and ideas to twitter only i try to add ephemeral kookiness and just whatever stuff like it's a what a what a map and when i got into twitter early on, it seemed like a warm, loving environment in large degree. But it's turned into such a madhouse. Around the Canadian election, I unfollowed everybody because I saw so many people that I admired and or liked or loved participating in the quote unquote conversation in such negative capacities. It was destroying my soul. I thought, oh, these are good people that have been tricked into involving themselves in this conversation of utter noise. It's this hateful us and them thing, this tribalism we resorted to,

is so bonkers, in my opinion i just as i can't i can't have these feelings towards people that i know and love just because i see their voice on twitter that's not their real voice i know who these people really are and and so that's it i unfollowed everybody i refollowed accounts that are zoo related or like about cities that I'm interested in and love. And that's it. And then a couple of, a very couple,

like we're a small amount of thinkers, but really it's like zoos and pictures of like Istanbul, Paris, Tokyo. That's it. All right. Here's the million dollar question. This will determine whether I plug your Danforth music hall show or your partridge

hall show here uh did are you following me right now like if i go to twitter you're not following toronto mike right now no but that's because i did this conversation is over i'm sorry hold on okay just kidding uh why did you unfollow Toronto Mike? This is important. I didn't. It was a blanket unfollow of everybody except my wife, my own record company, my piano player, and six other accounts, which I can't remember. Again, they're like people who post cats or like the San Antonio Zoo or something like that. But I'm slowly reaccumulating, Mike.

It's that I have to go back into Twitter and like a child goes back into Twitter, you know? And so I also know your purity to me, I get the back door to you via the friends of... Yeah, FOTM, yes. The secret DM group for FOTM. Yeah, so I already watched the narrative there, so it's not like I lost touch.

It's just that the front part, the part you put to the world, I'm letting the world there, so it's not like I lost touch. It's just that the front part, the part you put to the world, I'm letting the world have that for now. I'm going to have the secret part of you, which is the better part anyways. I hope I can win you back at some point. But here, because I do like you sincerely, I do want to just let the people know at this point

so that at the end when we say goodbye, I won't be like, oh shoot, I can't believe I didn't mention this. But you're back at it, man. You're at the Danforth Music Hall on December 14th. And you're at some wonderful sounding place in St. Catharines called

the Partridge Family Hall. No, just kidding. The Partridge Hall. That's December 22nd. Happy birthday to my brother Ryan on that day. But are there still tickets available to see you at the Danforth Music Hall on December 14th? There are some tickets still left, yes.

Are you excited? That's a great venue. And man, are you excited to be on the stage again there? 100%. It means I've been unpacking all that it means to me because I've been thinking a lot about what a leap of faith it's going to be to the audience. Like the tickets have been selling really well. But I know that those tickets are going to people who are probably walking into a room full of strangers,

maybe for the first time. And that is going to mean something. That's going to mean something really, that's a big thing. Because for two years, we've lived with a lot of fear around the breath of other people and the presence of other people. And it's not lost on me. And I will say that there are probably certain, you know, ticket conglomerates that should have probably given people their money back a little sooner.

And that's reflected poorly on artists. And so even to go and buy a ticket for the show that may or may not be canceled and wondering if you're going to see your 40 bucks like returned, you know, expeditiously or not. Like there's a lot, you know, our business tends to want to shoot itself in the foot as just sort of a matter of course. So these people are walking into a room to try and have a celebratory night

in the Christmas season. I wrote a record 22, 23 years ago in Paris, France, that celebrated my grandma, food, singing, all of the sort of wonderful secular aspects of Christmas that captured my imagination when I was a kid. And that record has gone on to have a life of its own, which I'm so tickled and thrilled by. life of its own, which I'm so tickled and thrilled by. And I've assembled a crack band with all my favorite musicians and my electric violin hero, Hugh Marsh, who played on all those great Coburn records in the late 70s, early 80s. The show is being opened by one of my favorite Canadian

comedians, Ivan Decker, because I dream of why is comedy and music, why is this not just intertwined on the regular? To me, this is like all musicians want to be comedians. And I've heard all comedians want to be musicians. Why don't we just hang out backstage and dip in the same hummus for God's sake? You know, like sweaty cheese is my, my sweaty cheese is your sweaty cheese. You know, the deli tray be ours. Let's have this. Let this. Let's partake in this festival together. So it's huge, Mike. It's huge. Wow.

Yeah, I can't tell you the respect that I have for people who have bought tickets and want to be there. I want to put on one of the best shows I've ever put on. And so we're really trying to pull out the stops and make it an event that we can all remember. But I am sort of well aware that it might not sell out. It might not be one of those things. Toronto had a relationship to COVID that we didn't have here in Peterborough.

I've talked to my friends in that city and I've seen their faces and that shell shock of a real, they had to hunker down through a way worse situation than we did here in Peterborough. I lived a pretty free life over those last couple of years watching asked them hey do you want to come in and and have a christmas party together to the tune of you know a thousand plus people 1049 or whatever the sellable seats are in that place and it's like and by all accounts at this point the ticket sales have been overwhelmingly great so yeah i am sitting in a place of privilege and honor in this and i really am am just, the whole goal is to have a great show that night. And at Partridge Hall too. That's an incredible venue in St. Catharines.

I played there with Sarah Sleen just days before the pandemic hit and shut the whole damn world down. That is a venue. Those kinds of venues are what cities should rally around in terms of just opportunities to create and partake in culture together. I mean, it's an extraordinary, that's a city that I've watched, you know, I've traveled Canada back and forth for 25 years. I've seen it north and south and east and west.

And you watch how cities undulate through times of prosperity and otherwise. And I feel like St. Catharines has popped. Like, it's like, what a great place. It's, you know, it's downtown, feels exciting. There's great restaurants. It's a great city to be in. Is HIT you know, it's downtown, feels exciting. There's great restaurants. It's a great city to be in. Is Hits 97.7 still playing Huxley Workman? Is that St. Catharines?

Yes. I don't know if they're still playing. They should be. They should be ripping striptease at least twice a week. That's right. That's right. And speaking of Huxley Workman jams, okay, so you mentioned the Christmas album that's celebrating 20 years and you're going to kind of

celebrate it with your fans at the Danforth music hall and a Partridge hall. The, um, I'm going to play like a new Hawksley Workman Christmas jam. And then this is exciting. I want to let the, the FOTMs know that we're going to kick out. Are these like five of your favorite,

like Christmas alt rock tunes? How would you describe the five Christmas songs? Yeah, Christmas alt-rock, modern Christmas. They err on the side of, I think, being pop songs before they are Christmas songs, but they're also, I think, infused with invention and meaning. Yeah, alt-rock, alt-pop Christmas songs. Okay, but before we get to that, I'm going to play a jam,

and then I'm going to ask you a little about this. So let's listen to this thing for this jam for about 60 seconds here. And it's your jam. If you want to talk over it, please be my guest. Thank you. What am I listening to, Hawk? What am I listening to? Wright Workman.

Instrumental record that Kevin Bright, the incredibly brilliant Kevin Bright and I made, we made it a few years ago, but it was just released this year. You know, Kevin's a bright guy. Kevin is, I've often thought of those names that are accident, are they, how

accidental are they? Kevin is one of the brightest people I know, like bar none. And similarly, as we know, when you, I think it was your in-law's house in Peterborough you moved to first before you bought your own place there that you, I can't remember, you were working on tiling or something? You were quite the workman. You were quite the workman. It's so true. I don't mind to get on my hands and knees and do the heavy stuff. Yeah, we did some tile as a thank you to my father-in-law

for letting us couch surf for six months through the early part of the pandemic while the real estate business was trying to sort itself out. Then we bought a house. Then we did his tile. And then we moved here. And then we did a tile job. But we got overconfident because the tile job we did at his house went so well that we neglected to do some planning when we did our own tile job.

And I will say it's one of, it's a personal embarrassment. We had to buy a beautiful runner, a rug runner, to kind of cover some of the inconsistencies in the tile. We got overconfident there. We were overfeeling ourselves. Now this Bright Workman project this is a instrumental project so is there uh there's a bright workman album what's the deal with the bright work yeah bright workman album it came out like a month and a half ago or something

kevin bright is he's a singer songwriter and he's a guitar virtuoso i mean i tell people he's probably one of the best guitar players in the world he He's very, very unique. He comes at music from a place of like just extreme guttural truth. You watch, and I'm sure there's probably people who are listening who have seen Kevin with his sister's Euclid at the Orbit Room when it was up. He played there weekly. He's played on stages with famous people the world over he's one of these musicians that i've idolized since i was young and i would see him we'd be on festivals together and i would see him and i remember in winnipeg going back 15 16 years sort of bugging his the drummer he'd actually hired to play the gig hey can i sit in for a song

hey can i sit in for a song hey can i sit in for a song and then i think i just kind of worked my way behind the kit you know i'm a drummer first and so that's still kind of my first love and i still like i was dreaming like man i want to collaborate with this guy but not i don't want to sing with this guy like i want to feel what it feels like to play drums with this guy and so that this whole record happened in and around when i was touring with mounties and my drum chops were back up at the height they probably were when I was a teenager like I was just flying so I was like this is the time to call Kevin Bright and say I'm on fire on the drums it doesn't happen very often because my actual job is singing and writing songs but when when I'm feeling this I feel like I'd even get

into his his stratosphere like I'm still was just trying to keep up with Kevin on this record. He is an entirely other level instrumental musician. Like, he is special times a thousand. Do you know the name Ted Wallachian? Like, does that name resonate at all with you? I feel like it resonates. I feel like I've seen it written down

more than I've heard it. Why would that be? So he's a Toronto radio guy. He was on CFRB as the morning show host for like a decade. And he's been here and there. He was at CFNY back in, I guess, the early 80s. But he came over yesterday to kick out the jams. As you know, I like to kick out the jams with returning FOTMs.

Well, first we had to talk about the fact that Ted was hospitalized for 10 days with COVID-19. So I told him, I'm glad you're here. I said, I'm glad you're anywhere. Like, you know, glad you're alive. But anyway, he was, we were kicking out the jams and it turns out as he starts kicking out these jams that he's a sucker for horns. Like if a horn shows up in a song that like, you know, so, you know, be it, I don't know, Chicago or lighthouse and anywhere he can get a horn. He's a happy camper. So that, I think he would,

you think he's going to dig that, that bright workman song. And what's the name of that song I just played? Covair? That's called Covair blues. Yeah. Corvair blues. Corvair.

Okay. Cause Corvair, a little too close to COVID. Just, you should have called it. Why did you call it? You should have called it why did you call it you should have called it covid blues which would i could have really tipped the tip the balance of its marketability in either way either direction but probably in the direction we would not want

it to go in what uh look fotm damian cox the other day was tweeting i know you're probably not following him on Twitter. If you're not following me, I'd be pissed off if you were. But he tweeted like a screen cap like about how, buy his new book. He came on this show and talked about this book. It's a hockey book. But one of the tabs that was open in the screen cap was like live sex show or something like that. Like it's a tab he forgot to close and it's in the screen cap.

And I personally, I don't know judgments like a man who enjoys pornography. Like I last thing I'm gonna do is judge that, but it's just, people like to give Damo a hard time anyways. Uh, no pun intended. Oh, and his name is Cox.

Like there's too many jokes to be quite honest with you, but it does seem loaded. But all this is to say, I feel like maybe he'll sell more books because of all this extra attention, because he had this tab on his browser that said live section did i see something about that maybe it was on reddit do you ever frequent reddit or you know what no it's that i i actually saw it on the on the behind the scenes your behind the scenes twitter i believe it was being talked about see let's let's spend a minute we i never talk about this on the podcast but let's just spend a minute to say if there's a good fotm like you've been to an event you've been on the show like if you're

you know good fotm and you're on twitter and you you ask me nicely i will uh add you to this not so secret fotm group the great hoxley workman i forget you're there because you don't like you don't it's not i'm not a contributor contributor, but I do check in from time to time because it is a lot of Toronto media types. And you know that I'm not a, I'm a media fan. And I'm a fan of people who come from the media. Anyways, sorry. No, just that, I mean, that's the behind the,

like you said, that's the behind the scenes stuff. So I'll let the people know, the FOTM, like, you know, wise plots in there. And we're discussing, you know, when the CHFI announcement that we all predicted correctly comes down. Oh, it's Pooja and Gurdip in the morning. You know, we have a little chatter about it there. And yeah, I'm sure we had a good chatter about the Damien Cox screen cap in there as well. So just let know so also while i'm doing this little uh internal plug here while you're asking to be added to the fotm uh dm group you can ask me uh for the zoom link for the open zoom cam gordon and i are co-hosting this uh fotm open zoom like holiday-themed, like a little get-together on Zoom,

December 9 at 7 p.m. And Hawk, if you popped in, like just to say hello to the FOTM. When is it? December the what? December 9, 7 p.m. I'm in Edmonton, Alberta. They don't have the internet there.

Well, what they have there is, you know, my Christmas record is being turned into a musical. What? And so I'm out in Edmonton because it's getting one of its sort of first professional run-throughs. And it's happening the 7th through to the 10th or 11th, I think. So I'll be out there as a sort of a, I'll be a theater cat for that week.

So I'm going to miss it, unfortunately. But I went back and listened to The Tears Are Not Enough. Oh, yeah. Talk to me, Goose. I really wished I'd been a part of that. But I'm one of those people who, because, you know, well, Howard, Humble and Fred, Humble Howard said he called me a world-class talker yesterday, which, you know, I was like,

I know that could be a backhanded compliment or misconstrued. I took it as like, you know what? I think he means it in the way that I want it to be meant. And you know what? I do like to talk. I believe that I'm a lover of language. And I think it's lovely to communicate with words because the language seems to be devolving to some degree and I don't hear a lot of people use the full breadth of the English language

and not like I really do. I love hearing people who can speak with the Stephen Fries of the world, these people who have a real command. I love hearing people speak colorfully. And so when he said that, I was like, man, maybe I do need, because you've been saying I got to do this talk and get gig. And I'd love to do it, but we have already talked with this. I'm, I'm, I'm retracing our steps.

Okay. You mentioned. The Tears Are Not Enough episode was phenomenal. And it was a great deep dive, and that song and that whole era, I was a kid during that whole era of charity, musicians doing charitable acts. I kind of feel like that era christened the very idea of... I mean, I know there was George Harrison, Bangladesh.

There was others, but it felt like the world decided, you know what musicians do? They get together when times are tough and figure out a way to pull some bucks out of the sky to send it to a place that needs it. And that was the 1980s, in my opinion. You know, you could have saved this chatter. There might be a song coming up.

There might be a song. So here, but before we get to the five Christmas songs you did not write, let's play some indie rock Christmas here to get us in the mood here. You ready, buddy? Real quick. Yeah. Real quick.

While we do this, can I just poke out the door of my studio here and have a pee out the door? Oh my God, yeah. Just because. I'm going to play your jam and go pee. You play the whole thing? No, you're not.

Are you really? I don't know. I'll look and see when you come back. I'll be right back. Okay. Peace and love to you. Okay. Okay. right back okay peace and love to you okay johnny wants a strata caster suzy wants

an mpc and a lifetime subscription to the enemy And a lifetime subscription to the NMEA With some backstage passes All access to Boston Parade Santa, Santa, won't you give me my Indie Rock Dream Zone I wrote it all down in my letter I hope this Christmas will be better

Indie rock, indie rock, indie rock Christmas Indie rock, indie rock, indie rock Christmas Indie rock, indie rock, indie rock Christmas Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Indie Rock Christmas. I love that. So while you were, you know, urinating, I popped over to the live stream. And it's funny, some FOTMs totally forgot you were in that DM group.

So I hope we haven't said anything bad about you in there. But also interesting, though, there's some chatter about the historic, the famous Peterborough Cavanaughs. And one of the FOTMs in that group, Moose Grumpy, is related to the Peterborough Cavanaugh's and one of the FOTMs in that group Moose Grumpy is related to the Peterborough Cavanaugh's and I just thought I'd throw that little nugget at you it's a town where you know I

have gone out of my way to meet people and make new friends now that I'm here and with the Cavanaugh clan you need to know who the father was, where he worked and what school they went to. And this is like, you can't meet somebody without getting the full details of these particular points. Because this is how the family tree of this town is kind of kept in check. It's a remarkable place.

Really, it's a... Because there are a few different Kavanaughs. I don't know if this is the AUGH Kavanaughs or just the AGH Kavanaughs because my wife's just an AGH Kavanaugh. Great question.

I do know Tom Kavanaugh. Do you remember the TV show Ed? Does this, do you know this Tom Kavanaugh? He's a Canadian actor. Oh. Yeah, he was, he had a

moment. I'm trying to, I know the big show he had on American Broadcast Television was called Ed. And I would pop over and check it out because my buddy Mofo, that's his name, he was going to Africa to help with some charity, and he spent the night in Tom Cavanaugh's bed, which sounds dirtier than it is because I don't think Tom was there.

But Tom's parents lived in Ottawa. That was the deal. And Tom Cavanaugh. Okay, so that jam, I quite like it. That's parents lived in Ottawa. That was the deal. And Tom Kavanaugh. So, okay. So that jam, I quite like it. That's cool. Thank you. Thank you, Mike.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, and it's catchy. Like, it's going to get repeat. Maybe somebody will kick it out on the FOTM KOTJ Holiday Edition here. But here, before I kick out the first of your five alternative or poppy Christmas songs, you're in Southern Ontario. Peterborough qualifies. So I'm going to send you, my friend,

a $75 gift card. This is courtesy of ChefDrop. And Hawk, you and your wife, you go to chefdrop.ca. There are like fantastic chefs and restaurants that are participating. You choose yourself a nice meal or two and this pre-prepared meal kit

gets shipped directly to your door that's good yeah you'll love it you'll love it and listeners uh who want to save 50 dollars right now on their first order just have to use the promo code fotm50 fotm50 do that at chefdrop.ca and i wish you were here buddy i can't wait till the next time you're in the studio here, because I have, I'm not going to save it for you. That's too much work. But I have a wireless speaker that I would give you. And you could use that to listen to the Yes, We Are Open podcast, which is hosted by a gentleman who's in the top secret, not so secret FOTM DM group on Twitter. His name is Al Grego. He's been traveling this country, interviewing small Canadian businesses and learning about their, their origin story,

their struggles, their future. It is amazing. And you, you and I are cut from the same cloth here. If you're a small business owner or an entrepreneur like us, you can, you'll find this podcast both helpful and motivational. So the order of the day is to go to yes we are open podcast.com subscribe to that uh next time you're in town of course i have some palma pasta for you palma pasta is just man the last two guests i have are like just huge fanatics of palma pasta because it's delicious as ted wallish and told me they get the sauce right that's how you know it's a good authentic Italian food. Ah, yes, totally. So I'm going to hook you up there. Much love to

Mike Majeski, who has Christmas Trees. If you write him, mike at realestatelove.ca, you can trade a donation to the Daily Bread Food Bank for a beautiful Christmas tree that he secured in Mimico. So you can do that. Last but not least, the good people at Ridley Funeral

Home. They're at uh 14th street and lakeshore here in new toronto and brad jones is another great fotm you can pay tribute without paying a fortune go to ridleyfuneralhome.com you were saying my friend before we get to these jams one of which will lead to a chat about this get back documentary and then another we'll go we'll go back to the Tears Are Not Enough. Maybe I should just kick out this first one? Yeah, do it. Let's do it. The mood is right

The spirits up We're here tonight And that's enough Simply having A wonderful Christmas time Simply having A wonderful Christmas time. Simply having a wonderful Christmas time. The party's on. The feeling's here.

I'm going to bring Paul down because I want to hear Hawk. Tell us why you love Wonderful Christmas Time by Paul McCartney. Where do I start? So I have this fantasy about how this song was written, that the Moog synthesizer company sends the new product to Paul, it comes on the wind,

an angel drops it off at his doorstep, knocks and then disappears, and Paul, who's just about to light a spliff, opens the door, he looks around, nobody's there, and oh, look, there's a box with a brand new Moog synthesizer. Heck, I should just take that down to the studio, maybe he calls a mate next door. Do you feel like running the tape machine while I give this thing a whirl?

They share a puff and the snow starts to sprinkle outside in the rural UK. He's fiddling around and they hook up a delay pedal and then two hours later you get this. I feel like it's the sound of pure childlike inspiration.

Frankly, I know this song is divisive, and I'm going to wade into something that might be offensive to some, but if I want to know a little bit about you, to me, do you like this song, Mike? I do not. Oh, come on! In fact, spoiler alert,

it's going to be played on Festivus. We have a special Festivus episode, Elvis and I, where we're bringing our least favorite holiday songs. How do you not like this? To me, this song is pure imagination. And that, to me, is like, look, this is what I feel is the divisive thing. To me, this, if you don't like this song, I hate to say it, I feel it says more about you than it does about the song.

Well, what are you going to do, block me on Twitter? Come on. You know, I'm more about you than it does about the song. Well, what are you going to do? Block me on Twitter? Come on. You know, I'm crazy about you. And I'm going to, you know what? I'm following you right now. I'm going to go on the damn phone. I'm going to get a notification when you follow me. I'm getting on it right now.

Just a sec here. I love this song. And I don't, look, I think it needs a rethink. Go back and on. And I'm not one of those Beatles guys. I'm not a John or Paul guy. I don't need the debate. It's all great. I don't need to take sides. I don't need to be a joiner. You know what I mean?

Well, your jams are your jams. I say that often. That's true. Similarly, my jams are my jams. This song, which gets played quite a bit at this time of year. It does. To me, it's not a good song. Like, I don't think it's... Like, you have another song on your list that I think is a great song.

And some of your... I mean, this particular jam you've chosen, and I'm glad you like it. Obviously, a lot of people like it. It gets played a lot, but not my, it's the Dean Blundell of Christmas songs. Okay.

Not my cup of tea. I don't really understand the, the, what you're saying. Cause I don't have an opinion, either way about Dean Blundell, but I think this song is a major winner and i feel like it's it's it's the sound of serendipity fun and invention

and that's the thing that i think we're losing every day in modernity the 21st century is unless you're i think in the realm of like cryptocurrencies and the metaverse and all this exciting stuff that's happening with tech i think that within within i think that we hear very little serendipity in in pop music anymore long may paul run are you at all uh interested in the get back documentary i am interested but as a sober person now i'm waiting for the moment when it feels right to watch this thing because i don't have any of my like natural accoutrement that I would have prepared the bottle of wine and the

vaporizer for or whatever. Now I would be like so I got to figure out nine hours out of my sober day. Well you break it up buddy. I'm one episode deep. I watched Succession last night. So I took a break. By the way. One of the greatest TV shows can yeah but i feel like

the first two seasons were just building up for this season like it feels like it's really hit its stride like i enjoyed the first two seasons but nothing like i'm enjoying the current season like this thing the writing the the whole thing just it's it's all there was one episode that i my wife and i watched it together and i'm like it's like relentless like it's all killer no filler it's just wild. I've been trying to understand how they write this show. Like, the different characters can't possibly come from one or two minds. Like, the characters are so individual and evolved.

And also, like, this is testament to great acting as well. The Kendall character, like, I mean, I can't get over how that character is acting. It makes me crazy how good it is. It's like, ah. Well, they're all good. That's why it works. They're all great. They're all great.

Shiv is great. I'm sorry, Cousin Greg, this guy's... Come on. What an archetype. How they were able to shove a pure comedy character into a show that is so serious

and cerebral, but this guy shows up as the comedy relief every scene he's in, and for some reason, it doesn't devalue the overall feeling of power and importance of this show. To have a regular comedy character that doesn't blow it up, you know what I mean? And I should just tell the listenership that this is a spoiler free chatter we're not going to say anything specific but i mean i i can't by the way it's christmas time so i feel like i can call him uh by his real name macaulay culkin's brother that's what i refer to yeah so he's great right yeah and and and even uh the guy from uh uh ferris bueller's day off um what's his name? Cameron? Not Cameron. Connor.

Connor. Connor. Of course, Alan Rock from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. The characters are fantastic and then you've got the lead actor is amazing and when he drops like a fuck off,

like I'm sorry, no one drops a fuck off like Logan Roy. So okay, so we started with Paul McCartney. I mean, he's astounding. That's astounding's good so okay so we started with paul mccartney he's astounding that's a that's that's astounding stuff okay so we agree on that so we're i'm back in your good books okay so this song i'm gonna kick i'm following you on twitter what

do you mean shit i'm honored okay um so uh on the on the facebook page they're saying kieran culkin apparently he's not his name is not Macaulay Culkin's brother. My apologies to Kieran. He's the true talent in that family. I don't know because my girl was pretty good, right? So, okay. So, we're going to kick out this one. I'm dedicating this to my buddy Elvis.

We might hear it again on Festivus. But this will be a good gateway into some more Tears Are Not Enough. Let's do this up. It's Christmas time There's no need to be afraid At Christmas time We let in light And we vanish in hay Oh yeah. Back in our world Let it pay. Oh, yeah.

You're not a writer. A brand new me. Wait till the Bono went, but you can't cut him off at the Bono. You got it. And it's the world of dread and fear Where the only water flowing is The bitter sting of tears And the Christmas bells that ring there

Are the clanging chimes of doom Well, tonight, thank God it's them instead of you, buddy. That's all I'm going to say on that. Okay, so this jam is, let's face it, there's a direct line from this jam to We Are The World to Tears Are Not Enough. But tell us why you love this one. Well, I mean, I'm an 80s music guy. I think it was the last truly audacious era in pop songwriting that appeared on, you know, generally accessible radio.

I think it's the last time we heard like innovative melodies, textures in the songwriting, the pop songwriting realm. And this was a time of sort of like pretentious lead singers and innovation and all the stuff that made... You know, the other thing is I look back at life in the 1980s. It was being sold as purely futuristic. You know, they put the word astro on the front of stuff and all of a sudden we were living in the future. But, you know, in hindsight, now that we're in the 21st century

and the internet and tech and blah blah blah we realized that the 80s our childhoods were probably not wholly dissimilar to you know childhoods in the late 1960s and but and i think that the boomers were informing the the scent the sensibilities in the in the 1980s i think that they were still the music business was like we need to to put virtuosos and geniuses out there for these kids. And I grew up listening to geniuses and virtuosos, as was childhood in the 80s. So in that great moment when Bono comes in, I mean, we're hearing all of the great pretentious singers from the British era of new wave music. And you get Simon Le Bon, you get all these guys leading up and then kaboom. wave music and you get Simon Le Bon you get all these guys leading up and then

kaboom like the guy who defines it who comes in with all the passion and extraordinary sense of self importance all that wonderful stuff it just blasts that I mean it's the biggest vocal in that whole record what else do I love I love that Phil

Collins was invited and from what I'm told it just decides he's going to bring a drum kit no we're not using it's not going to just be a beatbox. Phil's setting up the kit, and we're going to record the fucking drums. Get Phil on the drums. And that hi-hat pattern. I mean, Phil Collins is one of the greatest pop rock drummers that ever there was. I mean, he's obviously created one of the most iconic drum fills ever there was.

I want to start an airline called In The Air Tonight Airline, and when you taxi down the runway just as the airplane wheels are coming off the ground, the drum fill. Oh, I love it, man. Yeah, well, there's a seat sale in business class, Mike. You might want to get on that. I would take that flight. Just go around the city and come back.

Absolutely. There's just so much to me, and the idea of these characters all being in a room together, Phil Collins at the height of his audacity just dragging a kid around. Don't forget George Michael. He's kicking ass on that jam, too. Everybody's kicking ass on that jam.

It just represents a time. Look, it's a time in my childhood when the whole zeitgeist was pointing its commercial gun right at me. And so everything about this is like, yes, please. Right. Okay, so what's the better song? Do They Know It's Christmas, We Are the World, or Tears Are Not Enough? I think that... Rank them one to three, please.

I think that We Are the World comes in third for me. But I think as purely as a piece of songwriting the bridge in tears are not enough is really strong it's a gorge together you and i that change that key change i don't know i mean it musically, I might say that there's more beautiful math in Tears Not Enough, but I think for just, if I'm picking my fave fave, like Desert Island,

you're only allowed to take one song for African relief with you, and I'd have to say it's going to be this one. Okay. Now that line, that does not age particularly well. It probably didn't age well when he left the studio, but the whole like, tonight, thank God,

it's them instead of you is a little bit, a little bit cold and heartless. It's irony, you know, it's the whole idea is like, hey, wake up, idiot. It's not dissimilar to some of the sentiment, the way that the sentiment is wrapped up in, in war is over if you want it. I mean, it's, it doesn't, I don't,

I think the song has been, lately has kind of been approached with this literalist interpretation. I mean, I think the whole idea is it's time to recognize that you might have it better than other people, and maybe we should just wake the hell up here. What about the fact that most Africans don't celebrate Christmas?

Again, this was a song meant for a Christian marketplace. So what are you going to do? I'm on team tears are not enough. So I'm just trying to knock me off with all this. I'm just kind of unfollowing you here. Shout out to the Boomtown Rats. Okay. Are you ready though?

I'm excited to get to your third jam here. Are you ready, Hawk? Absolutely. Absolutely. Come on. ready though i'm excited to get to your third jam here are you ready hawk absolutely Oh, super's so good. The perfect gift for me would be completions and connections left from last year. Ski shop encounter, most interesting. Add us number but never the time. Most of 81 pass along those lines so deck those halls.

Trim those trees, raise up cups on Christmas here. I just need to catch my brother's Christmas by myself this year now we're cooking hawk wow oh my lord oh my lord that's a christmas song buddy it's just i mean where do we even start with this one? Where do we start? Okay, here's one of the sort of well-worn rock critic narratives that has always bugged me. This whole, like, you know, you'll go through a phase in music, like, in particular, this happened in the 70s, where, you know, music was taken over by these people who knew how to play their instruments, if you can believe it,

and wrote these complex songs and took themselves very seriously. And then thank God punk came along to save us from real musicians. We got to get clowns on the job here. And the whole thing that was interesting is that I've never really bought into this, and I think that's sort of part of this bizarre sort of anti-elitism that is sort of sewn into rock criticism,

where it's like, thank God somebody who didn't know how to play music came along and saved us from having to listen to people who actually know what they're doing. So to me, I've like, I've always been like, yeah, I mean, there's parts of, you know, of the 70s, you know, yacht rock or however you try to want to disparagingly call it. But I mean, I'm somebody who spent a long time

getting good at music. And so I've never sort of bought entirely into this whole punk ethos. So what I love about this is you get all the best parts of punk the punk vocal delivery the sort of the sort of kooky um four or five fucking verse story over top of it but you get pure brilliance on the music side you get this is just a bass solo masquerading as a Christmas song with just such a beautiful and it's an ostentatious and Those those horn lines. It's to me. This is the best of all the bits of music that I love. This is like this is audacity

In its creative outlook. This is like pure musicianship. This is arrangement This is lyric writing at an extreme high This is like sort of glib sentiment. Just give me more of this. To be honest, we can wash it all away. Let's just start here and then build a new culture from this song. Woo! You need your own podcast, man. That was great.

I'm now thinking of the progressing past of Modern Melodies, which is a sub-series of toronto mic that uh cam gordon brother bill and i do and uh we did one on uh canadian punk so we had ralph alfonso on and we basically talked about the origin of punk in canada basically it's pretty cool but i was listening to you talk about punk i don't know if you dig it but i was thinking absolutely we absolutely, we always have a guest on these PPMM episodes, and absolutely, the Hawk is a future guest on a PPMM episode. Can't wait. And now I'm thinking of that Brother Bill question,

and now I'm wondering, did you live with Brother Bill? No, I was wondering if it was somebody else. Okay, you know what? Now I'm wondering. So I tweeted, okay, the next two guests are Ted Wallachian and Hawksley Workman, and he replied, Brother Bill replied with that. that and now i'm wondering maybe it was you just made the assumption because i drank several thousand bottles of wine that must have been me no i i thought i know ted drink he's in the ukrainian drinking club or something like that man can

outdrink us all but there's ted and you on the thread and brother bill doesn't say specifically who but he's like i lived i lived with one of these guys i of course assume it's you right like you know i brother bill it's like the odd couple they're not even that not even that odd but now i'm wondering here as i sit here i wonder ted wallish and that question wasn't for you that was for ted i thought it was for you ted must have lived with Brother Bill. It took me back too. I read that tweet. You should have said something.

You never thought to say, oh, by the way, I didn't live with him. There are parts of my life I don't remember, not because I was too intoxicated. It's just that in the life of rock and roll, it moves really quickly, and there's just stuff. I was busy pushing a rock up a hill that I don't remember exactly what was going on.

Well, when you make your PPMM debut with Brother Bill and Cam Gorgon and I, we'll clarify this whole thing and find out what the hell's going on here. Okay. Oh, you know what? This is, so those first three jams are jams every listener is going to know.

Wonderful Christmas time. Do they know it's Christmas? And then Christmas wrapping with a W, obviously. Very clever. Now, here's the jam. I got to tell you, I actually am not familiar with this song. Maybe I should be. Let's play it and you could tell us more about it. Here we go. Oh. While the streets are filled with laughter and light And the music of the season And the merchants' windows are all bright

With the faces of the children And the families hurrying to their homes as the sky darkens and freezes we'll be gathering around their hearths and tables

giving thanks for God's graces and the birth of the rebel Jesus They call Him by the Prince of Peace And they call Him by the Savior And they pray to Him upon the seas And in every bold endeavor

And they fill his churches with their pride and gold as their faith in him increases but they've turned the nature that I worship in from a temple to a robber's den in the words of the rebel Jesus

Pretty little song, Hawk. Tell me about the rebel Jesus. Well, I mean, it's a political number wrapped up as a Christmas song. I mean, the very suggestion of Jesus as a historical, as a rebel figure is maybe something we don't consider often enough. I first found this song because I used to play, I was a sideman for a songwriter named Scott Murado, who was very active in the Catholic Worker House in Toronto, down on Close Ave.

And he was somebody who was very in tune with protest music. And he pulled this out. And it was, I mean, I think I was 17 or 18 when I first heard it. Jackson Brown, right? So people, yeah. Jackson Brown. It devastates me every time. I think that the very notion of the use of Christianity as a righteous tool

and to repurpose the idea of Jesus as a figure of rebellion at this time, at this season, is a brilliant wake-up call. I mean, the whole he's the reason for the season thing, like let's really evaluate the life of Jesus, whether you believe he's a historical figure or this is just a myth that our culture has attached itself to through the millennia or whatever. I think that this song is just a real difficult song to listen to.

Like, you know, the war is over if you want it. There's a similar sort of reversal of perspective there and the same kind of it uses similar sort of literary devices in my opinion but this one man this just just hits me in the gut every time I hear it and it's a real song of reflection and I feel like this is sort of the antidote to the the wild commercialism and sort of ostentatious nature of the Christmas season all the parts that we don't like if we sort of re-engageatious nature of the Christmas season, all the parts of it we don't like, if we sort of re-engage with the idea of the rebel Jesus, I think we get really close to the source of what it is

we're trying to celebrate this time of year. Wow. Testify. Okay. So are you a religious man? No, but I mean, I grew up going to church as a kid. I think that I believe in the idea that there's a God-shaped hole in all of us, and I feel like it's being filled with stuff other than goodness these days

because of the fact that we do live in a largely sort of secular world that I was lucky growing up in the United Church as a kid in the middle of nowhere. We had a lovely sort of, felt like a sort of, every Sunday I got to have this sort of quasi mystical experience singing these great songs out of these great old books surrounded by old people who seemed to take an interest in me because I could sing and I used to, you know, read the Bible passages, the Old Testament or the New Testament. The church to me wasn't, I didn't grow up in it because my parents were overly devout. I think I grew up in it because my parents were very young when they had me and they're like, we got to shove our kids somewhere.

So we went to Beavers and we joined Beavers in church the same week. And it was like, shit, we went from doing nothing except tobogganing to like now we've got to go to these places. But within the confines of the church, I was given all kinds of opportunities to express myself. And it was a unique little community to watch evolve. As a kid, I found it mystical and extraordinary and strange and wild. And the music that I got to sing in there was unlike any music my dad played at home.

And really, I look back on those days as formative. So I think that I do still bend in that direction because I feel like, look, whether you believe it or not, or whether there is a God or isn't, I think I'm a better person if I believe there is. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I hear you loud and clear, buddy. And I guess I'm naturally interested in the fact that maybe your Christmas is not the secular Christmas that's sort of celebrated in this household. And of course, Christmas, Christ Mass, like I was raised Catholic, so I know all about the going to Mass on Sundays and getting your First Communion, your confirmation.

I remember it all very vividly. And, you know, Jesus was the reason for the season, as I recall. And it's not just a good rhyme, but it's interesting to note that maybe in the Hawk home, there's... Well, my wife is Catholic, and so we're deep East City Catholic here in Peterborough. I think our experiences with church are vastly different from one another. I grew up in the United Church, and we knew that we were the hippies going to hell in a handbasket,

and the Catholics were going to make sure that the bow was tied on tight when we were on our way there. So I go to Catholic Mass or have gone to Midnight Mass, Christmas Eve service, and it's really been the first time that I've been able to involve myself in the Catholic church. And I mean, it couldn't be more different than what I grew up with. Yeah, well, it's all I know, but it was very ritualistic. And yeah, and you know, as a kid, I will say this, like these rituals and these like,

you repeat the same thing at the same time it's almost like singing like it's almost like uh well like a paradise by the dashboard light okay because you know the parts are different and they're all kind of stitched together and you know them by heart and you kind of do this thing or whatever and at the end there's a you get a little piece of like unleavened bread and then you know you've got your your final you're almost done or whatever but there is something about that for a kid where I guess it sort of, you soak it in and it becomes like imprinted on your, almost like on your DNA. And even as an adult, it's, and I'm not here to trash religion.

I'll do that in another episode. But it can be difficult to shed that imprint. I see that. I mean, it's a big part of how my wife and I relate to one another is her Catholicism is woven into her fabric. She went to a Catholic school. Her Catholic upbringing is a big part of the essence of who she is. And that's a big part of the essence of the culture that is playing out in Peterborough to this day is the Catholic church. And so, the culture that is playing out in Peterborough to this day is the Catholic Church. And so, I mean, I find it very fascinating, and I have all kinds of thoughts about it that maybe I'll join you on another episode we can talk about.

But like, to contrast, when we were living in Berks Falls, Ontario, in one of the iterations of our life, the one before this one and the one before Montreal, we started to try to go to the United Church, and Jenny just thought it was just absurd. Like, A, you know, the minister is down, like, asking us to move closer, and, like, we're being treated like just, you know, equals here, and, like, we're singing songs that sort of have, like, you know, a bit of a pop vibe to them, and, like, it all sort of seems sort of unregulated and participatory. It's loosey-goosey. Absolutely nuts. Yeah. This is nuts.

What are you doing in here? This is nuts. But that's what I grew up with, and it was a beautiful little rural community that really comprised all kinds of people. Like, I think about the church community that I grew up in when I was young and who I was exposed to and the small amount of politics that are involved in any church and the different players. And I

mean, the one thing that's lost in a society, I think that doesn't, there's two things that I lament the most about the secular world we live in. A, that we don't publicly sing together. I think this is a real loss. And two, I think that we don't intermingle freely within generations. And that's the two things that church beyond all the scripture and gospel

and all the other religious stuff, those two things in our secular world are sad losses to society. Wow. Okay. This is a moment here where we kick out your final jam. Is there anything you want to say or do you want to kick it? And I will preface it and then we'll see if you have anything to say before I press play. But this is actually my favorite Christmas song of all time. but this is actually my favorite Christmas song of all time.

It's such a beauty. I heard it for the first time watching the Basquiat movie, the one that David Bowie was in, and I'd never heard a song so bloody beautiful in my life. I'd never heard it before. It was like, what, 1996? It was probably the first year I lived in Toronto, 95, and I had to figure out, who was this?

I didn't know anything about it. And it kind of, it was sort of, it unraveled itself to me. And I mean, is it the greatest Christmas song? Is it one of simply the greatest songs ever written? Well, that's it. This is not a song that I have to be in, you know, December to listen to. Absolutely. I mean, it's a commentary.

It's a piece of theater. It's poetry. It's, I mean, it's exquisite in every way. Yeah, this is astounding. It was Christmas Eve babe In the drunk tank An old man said to me Won't see another one And then he sang a song The rare old mountain dew

I turned my face away And dreamed about you Got on the lucky one Came in 19 to 1 I've got a feeling This year is for me and you So happy Christmas I love you baby

I can see a better time when all our dreams come true. They got cars big as bars, they got rivers of gold But the windows right through you, it's no place for the old When you first took my hand on a cold Christmas Eve You promised me Broadway was waiting for me You were handsome, you were pretty clean Out of New York City when the band finished playing They huddled up for more Sinatra was swinging, all the junk flame was swinging.

We kissed on a corner, then danced through the night. The boys of the Envoy, Pee-Dee, Coyle, were singing, going by. And the bells are ringing now for Christmas Day. Woo! Makes me weep. So good. Makes me weepy and that christy mccall like that uh what a great like juxtaposition of the the two the two singers on this jam and i think it just it all comes together so perfectly like i said it's a piece of theater like um how do you even like how do you

drink this in as an artwork like what is it really it's a lot of things you know it's an awful lot of things yeah it's an awful lot of things and it's got

in the video there's Matt Dillon I don't know if you know that he's I don't know if I've ever seen the video if you can believe it I don't I

the only visual that I have with this is that opening scene in that Bas believe it. I don't... The only visual that I have with this is that opening scene in the Basquiat movie. It's the only visual I can connect to this, other than the running visual that the lyrics present to me of this, like, this, you know, this stumbled, drunk, desolate, you know, couple stumbling around wherever they are.

I mean, one of the last places I was before the pandemic in Europe was Cork, Ireland, and it just sort of feels, one of the last places I was before the pandemic in Europe was Cork, Ireland. And it just sort of feels like some of the sentiments, some of that feeling, that Irishness. Yeah. That's where my grandfather's from there. Oh, Cork County or Cork?

County Cork. Cork County. Is that different? I was in Conakilty for the Conakilty Guitar Festival. And we were in a pub the last night that had a door that joined it to the funeral home. And they opened the funeral home door and the mourners came drifting into the pub while the music was playing. And these old grey folks, the ladies drank, you know, gentle cocktails and the men sort of sipped beers. And it just seemed like, you know, as Canadians or as you know as sort of new world people like uh the idea of our heritage like it was kind of right up close in my face about man there's something

magical about how these people operate and and something about those sentiments is wrapped in this song and like you know it's not like i have an intimacy with this culture that's the sort of part of my high and 57 makeup but like you. But really, there's something in here that speaks so loud and clear to me. Love it, Hawk. Hawk, I love these regular appearances of yours on Toronto Mic. You're a great FOTM, and I thoroughly enjoyed this one too, man. Let's remind everybody, still tickets to hear this genius here I'm chatting with all the way from the patch here

to hear him on stage at the danforth music hall december 14 are you gonna like i would say i would uh ask you don't cover that jam because every time i hear a cover of that song it leaves me uh like you can't do an empty you can't do that but you can cover wonderful christmas time if you want i feel like i think what we're gonna cover is that uh jackson brown uh i'm going to sing it with kevin bright oh my god so much love to bright workman that's available now uh that uh indie rock christmas song is catchy that's a good one catchy af and if you were going to tell like FOTMs where to go on the World Wide Web to buy a ticket to the Danforth Music Hall on December 14 or Partridge Hall in St. Catharines on December 22, where would you direct them? My guess is you can probably buy tickets to the St. Catharines show through the Partridge Hall website. I think you can go to the master of tickets in for Ticketmaster for the Danforth Music Hall show.

There's probably links to my website, hoxleyworkman.com. I'm even a website, Mike. Can you believe it? I think Metallica, they were going to call that album Master of Tickets, and then at the last minute,

they changed their mind. I love that record, yes. Master of Puppets. You're no puppet, Hawk. Fuck, you're amazing. We'll do this again. Yeah, bless you. Master of puppets. You're no puppet, Hawk. Fuck, you're amazing. We'll do this again. Yeah, bless you. Thanks for having me.

I do love this, and I've always... What you've built, to me, it's amazing. Small media is, to me, look, the world gets bigger and more monopolistic, but then there's kooks like you

who build something that is truly unique and for the people of your city and whoever else wants to chime in and just listen to or listening on something that's great look it's harder and harder to be your own person in this sort of ever more like consolidated monopoly that we live in and so people like you doing this kind of a thing it's it's it's more remarkable than i think it people probably would just initially think what you've done this this is heavy, heavy lifting. And I see it and I'm in awe of it and I respect it very much.

Thank you, man. That feels good to hear because it's a lot of effort and it's taken almost a decade now. And like they said on The Wire, we're building something here and we're building it from scratch. And Hawksley, all the pieces matter. Oh, so true. And that brings us to the end of our 957th show.

I think you dropped the Heinz 57 flavors in this episode. So it's appropriate. You're 957. Yeah. You can follow me on Twitter. I at toronto like i do yeah like hoxley now follows me on twitter i'm honored but you can also follow hoxley workman uh what's your twitter handle at hoxley workman wow w-k-s-l-e-y w-o-r-k-m-a-n at follow this man he might not follow you back though but that's okay.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery. And again, congratulations on your sobriety. If anyone listening can drink responsibly, there's nothing tastier than the fresh craft beer at Great Lakes Brewery. You can follow them at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop. I will be sending you an email, Hawk. You're going to get your Chef Drop. You can follow them on Twitter

at GetChefDrop. Moneris. Moneris brings you the Yes We Are Open podcast, and they're at Moneris. McKay's CEO Forums. They also have a fantastic podcast called the CEO Edge Podcast. Fireside chats with inspiring

CEOs and thought leaders. And I post a new episode every week on torontomike.com. So listen and subscribe. Palma Pasta. They're at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. I have some Toronto Mike stickers for you, Hawk, next time I see you, buddy.

Ridley Funeral Home. They're at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialist Majeski Group. I believe actually this is the last day of their sponsorship term. We're going to miss Majeski. He showed up at TMLX 8

and just bought like 40 beers for the crowd at Great Lakes. So shout out to Mike Majeski. It's been awesome chatting about you for the last several months. But you can follow Mike on Instagram. He's at Majeski last several months. But you can follow Mike on Instagram.

He's at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. And I've seen the sun go down on Shakira Curve. But I like it much better going down on you. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy and

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