Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Hebsy Returns: Toronto Mike'd #352

Episode Date: June 25, 2018

Mike chats with Mark Hebscher about his new podcast, John Gallagher, Bob McCown, Marty York, TSN stealing his idea for Off The Record, whether he'll ever record with Jim Tatti again, George Bell, Kelly Gruber, and much, much more.

Welcome to episode 352 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know, Hebsey, that 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? No. GLB. Rude for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com. Toronto real estate done right.

And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca and Camp Tournesol, the leading French summer camp provider in Ontario. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me is

the host of Hebcy on Sports, Mark Hebcher. I should have said that in my best Marie Eldon impersonation. Mark Hemsher. Now, that would have been cool. I would have liked to have had Marie Eldon announce me just on a daily basis. Imagine you come out of your home or your apartment and say,

here he is to start his day. And your theme song plays. By the way, remember, Murray Eldon's still with us. It's not too late to make that happen. He's still with us. When was the last time you had contact of Murray Eldon? Man, it's a long time ago. Oh, gosh. It's got to be 20, 25 years ago, maybe. But I saw Murray every day. I used to work with Murray at CKFH Radio. He was the newscaster. He was great. And he had a different kind of voice.

He didn't have a very deep, like a, this is Murray Eldon. He had kind of a, this is Murray Eldon. It was sort of like, it was different. But you know what? That's what made him stand out. And that's why when you think back to all, you know, the early days of the Blue Jays and you, that voice is sort of in the background there. Well, I mean, as a kid at Exhibition Stadium, like

we should tell people, so we just recorded, we just finished recording like the 13th episode of Hebsey on Sports. And then it was like, produce that MP3 reset and now I'm in charge. That's how that works. But wait, you have to tell people that I wasn't your originally scheduled guest for this episode of Toronto Mike, was I? No, you weren't. Okay.

You're an emergency fill-in. But I had it in my notes. I'm like, it's been over a year because you were the first guy ever to kick out the jams on Toronto Mike. You're number one. I remember that. You're like Bob Baylor. You're in the trivia books there. It was Bob Baylor was the first Blue Jay, right?

What do you mean the first Blue Jay? Phil Roof was the first Blue Jay. Okay, well, Bob Baylor was the first guy drafted in the expansion. He was the first pick in the expansion draft. Yes, he came from Baltimore. He was an infielder. He was actually a shortstop and a pretty good ballplayer. And he played some shortstop early on,

but he became a very good center fielder, was their first all-star and their first 300 hitter. And he was a coach for many years for the Jays after that. He was a heck of a ballplayer. First base coach, right? Yeah, he was a heck of a ballplayer. And when I was calling Blue Jay games back in the late 1970s, filling in for early win,

Bob Baylor was by far the best player on the team. And man, he made one defensive play that when I put an audition tape together for broadcast, I used that clip. I can see it now. Ricky Henderson hit a drive to right center field. And Baylor was playing right field. And Rick Bossetti was playing center field. And Baylor made this incredible backhanded over-the-shoulder catchetti was playing center field. And Baylor made this incredible backhanded, over-the-shoulder

catch in deep right center field. That was just, and I was a kid broadcaster going, and Baylor makes a great catch! And that's, so those are the Blue Jays teams. I only kind of know those guys, you mentioned those names, but, I mean, not Ricky Henderson, obviously, but the rest of those guys, I know them from like, I used to

read, like, I used to devour, like, candy, like Blue Jays trivia books, because I came on board in about, I'd say 83 was the first year I listened to most of the games. Boy, you came at the right time, 83. Yeah, and it's just a fluke of my age that this all happened. So I missed those awful late 70s expansion teams. I just missed the terrible years of the Blue Jays. So my first 10 years were 83 to

93. Spoiled, right? Totally spoiled. Completely spoiled. And I thought it would always be that way. I just assumed this is what it's like to be a fan of a baseball team. But the thing is, how else would you have become a fan? What if they were terrible and you lost interest in them? Like a lot of people did. There were a lot you know, were all excited in 77 and by 79 or 80 or 81, the strike season. Right. The summer of 81, there was no baseball for like two months. They had 50 games they were on strike for. Right.

So there were a lot of people that, you know, and the amount of money they were paying for free agents and baseball had taken a little bit of a tumble there, and a lot of people who were initially enamored with the Blue Jays were not interested nearly as much come the late 70s, early 80s when they were still struggling. Let me ask you this, Mr. Hemsher, before we get into who you're replacing here today, but what year, I remember reading that originally you

couldn't buy beer at Exhibition Stadium, right? So when did the beers show up? 83. That late? Yeah. So basically, if you're going to watch the Jays, let's say in 1979, you're watching, not

only are you watching a terrible team in the mistake by the lake, if I may say, but you're not even... People didn't care, though, about the ballpark so much. You're not even drinking beer. That's right.

There was no beer. Right. It's just amazing to think But at the same... Let me give you an example. At the same time, if you wanted to have a beer on a Sunday in Toronto, you couldn't get one after, let's say, 6 p.m. unless you were having it with a meal. So you had to order a meal. So there were certain places that you could only get a beer.

Now, so this is what was going on. The Canadian dollar and the American dollar were pretty much at par in these days. So it was a different time. But I'll give you an example. When I was working for the radio station, I was making $22,000 a year. And Bob Baylor was making $28,500 a year. And we're about the same age. So imagine that.

You're starting out. You're starting your career. I'm starting my career as a radio reporter in sports covering the J age. So imagine that. You're starting out, you're starting your career. I'm starting my career as a radio reporter in sports, covering the Jays. And the guy I'm covering, who's out there playing ball every day, is about the same age, making about the same amount of money as me.

That was the last time, I believe, that the average person could relate to a ball player. Although they can still do so in the... A guy that has a second job. Right.

That's long gone in Major League Baseball, but still there in CFL, right? Like in CFL, you could probably cover a guy making less money than you make. Yeah, but you know what I mean. I'm talking about there was a time there and with the teams that we're talking about here in the 70s and the 80s,

where I was around the same age as most of the players that i was covering uh and i could relate obviously better you're going through similar types it's very difficult to try to you know for a reporter nowadays in their 40s or 50s let's say or you know to relate to a 19 year old kid or a 21 year old kid especially they're from a different background and especially if they're making the money which they are the money that they're making these days, which is a staggering amount of money, which any one of us would give their left testicle to make that. Look, look, I'll give up a testicle if I can set my family aside for money for the rest of my life.

You could have them both, I think. What a feeling that must be for someone that's young to be able to say, look, all I got to do is hang in for a few years or whatever. And I got enough money for, you know, to look after myself for the rest of my life. I don't have to worry about stuff. But in those days it was like,

uh, these guys all had part-time jobs, all had off season jobs. Every one of them when the baseball season was over, unless they, and even the high priced free agents, you know, I mean,

Reggie Jackson was making a million dollars a year, a million and a half. Even then it wasn't enough to, you know to retire when you're in your 30s. So totally different than nowadays. Now, okay, so you're here, and I wanted to record with you again because, as I said, you were the first one to kick out the jams. That was a little over a year ago. So it's been a year since you've been on the show, and we have some catching up to do anyways. But today was going to be Greg Brady.

Greg Brady was going to kick out the jams, and I have his jams all loaded up. In fact, they're here. I'm going to play them. No, I'm not. I'm not going to play them, because he's coming in next week. I bet you I know most of this.

We'll see. But thank you for doing this, because I was all set to record. You were in my basement anyways, so I'm like, sure, Hebsey, we just did Hebsey on sports.

Let's do an episode of Toronto make. Well, I think Greg Brady actually, uh, um, he got in touch with me to tell me that he wouldn't be able to make it in. He didn't ask me to pinch hit or anything like that, but I think he's pretty comfortable with the fact that,

uh, even though you had, had you announced that he was coming on this show? Yeah, of course. Yeah. So you'd made the announcement. Yeah.

I think I said, do you have any questions for, yeah, yeah? Yeah. So it was like, uh, it was sort of like the time that, uh, I bought tickets to see Sly and the Family Stone at Maple Leaf Gardens. And, uh, for some reason, Sly Stone couldn't get out of bed that day or something happened. And instead of canceling the concert and having to give everyone their money back for tickets, they brought in the band Chicago. Oh, wow. Who had played the night before in Buffalo or Windsor or whatever it was. Right. And it was a kick-ass concert.

It was great. And at the end of it, not one person said, oh, darn, I really wish Sly and the Family Stone would have been there. I'm sure there were a few. But it was like you weren't expecting much because the original, instead of postponing it, they said, well, you've got a replacement for you. I've never heard of that before because you'd think, yes, Chicago's

a great collective, a great band. Wow, they're awesome. Of course, but still, Sly and the Family Stone, if that's who you're there to see, it's not the same thing. But I've never heard of that happening. That's pretty cool. But you're now playing the role of Greg Brady. I'll be playing the role of Greg Brady.

Now, I need to tell people the ongoing history of Mark Hebbshire on Toronto Mike. First episode. Episode 89. So if you want the original deep dive with Mark Hebbshire, this is where we chat. I wrote it down here. We chat about your years on Global's Sports

Line. You were on Sports Line. I was. Let's play a quick promo for Sportsline. What will happen today? Who will win it? Who will lose it? He travels. Come on, ref. He travels. Going back, going back, going back there for the wall.

Look out. Meanwhile, look at this. The Heimlich maneuver backwards. How will you know how hard will they hit? How hard will they fall? How will you know? Sportsline knows. Weekdays and Sundays, 11.30 on Global.

Who's the original host of Sportsline? Bob McCowan. Bob McCowan. And then you took over for Bob? No. What happened was Bob was doing the show by himself. And there were a lot of rumors. Bob is a very controversial polarizing figure. I've heard.

No, he was. He still is. But at the time, there were, there was no sports networks, right? There was sports radio. There wasn't even sports radio. There was Bob. Right. Right? There was no dedicated sports radio. There was Bob. Right. And Bob was the number one sportscaster and then when global

decided they wanted to do a television show at 11 30 at night he was going to stay up that late half an hour of sports are you out of your mind who where are you going to get the material how are you going to nobody did a half an hour sports nobody did 15 minutes of sports a sports cast was you know six minutes four minutes eight minutes whatever it was right and he started that show in 1981 and i'll tell you this for a fact larry silver who i was working with at the time famous newscaster bet me he says this show won't last for i said i'll bet you it lasts and we bet i think 20 bucks or it took me years to get the money from right but i said for sure this because every because you know not just the jays and the leafs but the people were interested in sports

they devoured the toronto sport a star sports section and the Leafs, but the people were interested in sports. They devoured the Toronto Star Sports section and the Globe and Mail. So that's when the show began. It was on at 11.30 at night. And if you wanted to get your highlights or your late-night commentary or whatever, this was the place to go. So Bob did the show for a couple of years. The Global hired Jim Taddy to work weekends. I think weekends at first, or he was a reporter. But eventually the idea was they were going to team Jim up with Bob.

And I believe Bob said, no, you're not. Or I don't know what went on. Or he negotiated for more money. Whatever the case was, Bob was gone. I was hired. And Jim and I started doing Sportsline together. Jim had done it by himself for, I'm going to say a few months. I'm not exactly sure after Bob had been let go,

but I think the idea was, you know, let's do a two-person sports show. Revolutionary. That was appointment viewing for me. Jim Taddy, Mark Hebbshire, Sportsline on Global. Like that was a big deal to me and I loved it. Like I just adored it. So it was great stuff there. I'm glad.

Thank you. Now, uh, what else was in that episode? 89. What, what an episode. So we talked about your relationship of Jim Taddy.

Um, do you still, uh, talk to Jim Taddy? No, that makes me sad. Uh, we tweet once in a while.

Well, I see those tweets. They're not the friendliest tweets, but there are, they, they, what do you mean? They're not the friendliest tweets. What do you mean they're not the friendliest tweets? What?

What are you talking about? I don't know. I feel a chill from those tweets. I feel like, I mean, of course, this sounds like, well, Jim Taddy, can you say, is this fair to say he's a bit of a prickly guy? Can I say that? Would you say Jim Taddy is a prickly guy? Let me put it this way to you, all right?

I've worked with the guy for 11 years. Were there times that he was prickly? Sure. Were there times I was prickly? Absolutely. He was a Red Wings fan. I was a Leafs fan. He was a Tigers fan.

I was a Blue Jays fan. He was a Michigan football fan. Anyway, so you're in the realm of sports fans and lovers of sports getting together. It would be like you and your buddy, right? You're sitting watching a game. You like the Habs. He likes the Leafs or vice versa.

You're going to get that. You're going to get prickly stuff. You're going to get comments. Your team sucks. My team's great. That's natural for sports fans. Did it carry over onto the show? Yeah, sometimes it did.

But I mean, how could you expect otherwise? To answer your question. Okay, well, okay, I'll leave the Taddy thing for now. But there were a lot, a lot, a lot more good times. A lot, lot, lot more, okay? People are going to pick on the, oh yeah, you and Jim didn't get along and stuff like that. Hey, I got to tell you something.

No marriage is perfect. You know that. I know that. Jim knows that. Is there even a 1% chance? Tell me now, some real know that. Jim knows that. Is there even a 1% chance? Tell me now, some real talk right off the top here. Is there even a 1% chance that one day you two appear on the same thing together? I would hope so at some point. But someone's got to have to come along and go, I wonder if we could get Jim and Mark together.

I don't know. But they don't have to park like a Brinks truck in your head. No, no, no. You think Global's going to go one day, going to go, let's go back to the old days and let's have everybody back together again and do a reboot of the show. No, no, no. It doesn't even have to be Sportsline. But just will anyone be able to hear Jim Taddy and Mark Hebbshire together again in some

capacity? I don't know. I don't know. You never say never. And certainly our relationship is certainly not anywhere near that particular point. Not at all. We're more than civil. but he's got a job. He works.

He does a radio show, a three-hour, I think, radio show every day. This is a lot tougher than Hempstead Sports. I see you sweating over there. This is a lot tougher. Well, because you know why? The other thing is that we worked together for 11 years many years ago, many years ago,

and I guess it would be similar to, you know, did you ever work 11 years or 10 or 11 years at a certain place and you're not there anymore? Sure. A lot of people are like that. And can you go back to those 10 years and honestly say that, you know, did you have a good time? Was it a good run? Did you love every minute of it? No, probably not every minute of it. Generally speaking, oh, yeah. Wouldn't give that up for the world. Absolutely. Did Jim and I maintain a relationship that's a strong bond years later?

No, because he had other things to do and I had other things to do. So that's sort of where we are. But I mean, I'll give you an example. Several years ago, someone had approached me and asked me that very question. And I said, yeah, are you kidding me? Man, you don't have chemistry with someone for that long and then never have that again. It wouldn't take very long at all for Jim and I to reconnect in that manner, right? Having good chemistry, being able to talk about things, shoot the breeze about stuff,

you know, all that stuff that we used to do. And I thought for a brief moment that there was a possibility that someone was trying to make arrangements there, get us together or whatever. It didn't work out. It may have only been in the embryonic stages. But let me tell you, I got excited about that because I thought, wow, someone was going to do some marketing and say, hey, it was the best show going for years, and we're going to try it again. Or how would you like to see the guys together? I think that would be interesting and intriguing. I think it would be interesting and intriguing if I got you two on this show together. Maybe I got to,

maybe that's a project for me to see. I got to see if I can warm myself up to a gym, Taddy, see what I can do. So let me, let me work on that. Uh, episode,

uh, 89 had lots of big stuff, including your fight with Dave Steeb. Oh yeah. Dave Steeb. It was a, man, I'd forgotten about that. The second greatest story in picture in Blue Jays.

How did that come about? You had asked me, you said, who was the biggest prick on the Blue Jays? Probably. I love to hear stories about Dave Steeb. Oh, God. And you know, the funny thing is, years later, he apologized.

We were playing golf. We had played golf together. It's amazing what you can learn when you play golf with someone. And he had sort of said, I know I gave you a hard time. I think I had sort of said something like, geez, Dave, you were such a hard ass.

You were so difficult. And I had brought up that particular story that I told there. And he said, I didn't mean to be like that. That's just the way I was. So it's kind of like you got to give the guy a pass for the way he was when he was a ball player. Right?

The competitive fire and all that jazz. That's what they're asking. Please give me a pass for being such a jerk all those years. And then they make up for it. But I think most people are like that. I think when they're finished their pro career, whatever it is, someone might point out or they might reflect and say,

you know, I really was a jerk in those days, but I had a job to do. And part of that job wasn't being nice to the media. Right. We talked about your years at Q107, 640, The Score, Sportsnet, and CHCH.

You covered it all. At the time, this is in my notes, your recent feud with Mike Wilner. Was there a Wilner feud? I know it's in my notes, but I don't remember it. Did I call Wilner out on something? I think he was disappointed in you for something.

I think I called him out on something. And I'm trying to think. How dare you? I don't recall what it was. You're two of my closest friends. But I think he, no, no, listen. And I listen a lot. And I don't recall what it was now.

And I hope that there's no hard feelings about something like that. And I think also, but I think what had happened was, I think he had called me out on social media. And I had said something like, you know, if you wanted to say something, you needed to say it just to me and not on social media. And then you and I would have been able to handle it. But I think he had heard me say something to that effect. And it sort of made this, you know, comment on social media. And he's got lots of followers.

Well, I got to go back to episode 89 and refresh my memory here. I don't recall, but look, I like listening, and I've got to tell you something. He sounds great with Ben Wagner on the Blue Jay broadcast. You can take this clip out of the show, and you can tell Wilner, okay? I will.

And I know, listen, he's a polarizing figure. Been there, done that. He did a show that I did. You invented that, right? You and Bob McCallum. I invented it. Bob McCallum, look, McCallum's case was different because McCallum was a really good sports talk show host, but he didn't have a shtick.

And we used to listen to a guy named Pete Franklin out of Cleveland, 3WE. He was on late at night, overnights. And he would destroy people on the air. You so-and-so, how did you dial the phone wearing a straitjacket? The next sound you hear will be that of a dial tone. Idiot. Click.

And people would call in and he would abuse these calls, but he knew his sports. Right? He knew his stuff. And I used to listen to this show with McCowan in the car after Bob's show was over. Bob had a show called Talking of Sports, which ran from 10 p.m. till midnight, or after the Jays games, depending on the time of season.

And I was his producer. Is this 1430? This is 1430, right. And I was his producer. So that station had the Jays games, the Leaf games. McCowan had a talk show, and I was his producer. We would listen to this Pete Franklin guy. And man, this guy was so over the top. And I remember Bob saying to me, he says, man, I wish I could do that.

And it was like, why don't you? Right. Why don't you? Why don't you become the irrepressible, you know, obnoxious, yet extremely knowledgeable, kind of like Howard Cosell. And you know what? Bob was the best at it, but he's not like that. No, it's the mask he wears. He wasn't like that. But when he heard Pete Franklin, okay, who would scream and yell and called the owners of the Cleveland Cavaliers name, called them the Cleveland Cadavers, the Indians, a bunch of, I mean, just he would rip people, rip people. And that was a good shtick.

And Bob did it. He would rip people, rip people. And that was a good shtick. Bob did it. And then later on, I took on sort of a similar role when I had a talk show, when Bob had moved to television, and I took over the radio talk show. And I had the only one in Toronto for a few years. And this is Jay's talk, or what is this? No, no, this was a nightly phone-in show, sports talk show, right?

Yeah. 6 till 8 p.m. on CKEY, which was 590 at the time. And before that, I had taken over from Bob on 1430 doing the nightly sport five days a week, two hours a night. Come on in and talk sports. I was the guy. When Bob took over the television job at Sportsline in 81, I took over on the radio. It's funny how your careers kind of intersect there. Well, they never, see, that's just it.

They only once did they. But after that, it just seemed that, you know, whatever job Bob had, I would have been good at that job because I was Bob's protege. And you were younger, of course. I was a younger version of Bob, but I learned everything from Bob. I learned the entertainment value of it. I learned the misdirection of it. Like, you know, if this

is what the people want, give them what they want. If you want to rile up some caller, so the guy will call and give a great phone call. That's what Bob would do. Bob would say stuff to a guy, the guy would go off and Bob would just lean back in his chair and let this caller rant and roll. And then pretty soon other people were calling to either agree with or disagree with one of Bob's callers. Bob would let the caller take the ball and run with it. And he would just sit back and go, yep, it served its intended purpose. That's brilliant talk radio. But nowadays, of course, you can't be taking that many calls from fans because Vito and Woodbridge are the Leafs.

You need a really good producer for that. And when I say producer, I don't mean the person that produces the show. I mean the call screener. The call screener, I was one for Bob. You cannot let a call on the air unless you're almost positive that that's going to be a good call, right? Are talk radio stations in 2018, do they have actors phoning in? Is there a fakery going on? I don't know. That's a good question. That's a really good question. Because I know it happens on your top 40 stations or your pop music stations. I know that that's happening. Let me give you an example. When you're on Twitter, for example, and there's certain people that are really good. They put really good tweets out there. They're thoughtful. They're funny. They're well-researched.

Whatever it is, you enjoy reading the tweets of that person. If you were with that person in person, you'd want to talk with that person. That's the way talk radio used to be with the callers they didn't used to have as many guests in the studio or they'd be phoning someone now joining us from whatever newspaper or whatever radio station right that's just become too comfortable but it used to be that the callers would help make or break the show that the host would make a little comment about something and then let's go to the phones mike from toronto is on the line right and if it was a if you had a good call screener mike had some real interesting things to say he would pretty much audition for the call screener before he ever got on the air right and the call screener would go give a thumbs up and say yeah this guy's good

put and i we'd say put and i would say to my call screener all the time i said if someone is angry put them on the air right put them on it on. It's gold. Let them go. Let them just run and go and stuff like that. And that's what, and people loved, and some people loved being on the air. They loved hearing the sound of their own voice. Well, back then you had no other forum. You couldn't have a blog or a Facebook account or a podcast. Correct. What else did you have?

You could write a letter to the editor and hope the Toronto Star or the Toronto Sun would publish it. But that was about it. But that was the most exciting thing I had ever done in my career to this point. You know, doing a podcast is a lot of fun now, but that was exciting because you never knew what the next person was going to be. And now

shows are so formative that, you know, there's no surprises really. You know, you kind of know if you're interviewing someone what they're going to say. There really are very few. But when you said, you know, Mike from Toronto, you're on the air, you don't know what that voice is going to sound like unless it was a regular caller.

Did you have to have a delay back then? Oh, sure. Oh, yeah, you had a five or seven second delay. Absolutely. Because you didn't know what the guy was going to say. But that was the exciting part was, I wonder what Mike from Toronto has to say. Right.

And you know that your call screener, and my guy, Mitch Litvak, was a great call screener. He just would say, I'm sorry, you're just not good enough, sir. You're going to call back when you've got something relevant to say and you can articulate it on the air. Right. We just didn't put anybody on the air. In fact, Mitch would say to me, he says, I don't have anybody good. And I would so I would just go on and rant about something or whatever or beg for calls. Please, if you've got anything to say and you can string seven words together, give

us a call. Stuff like that. You know, interesting. Speaking of Wilner, he was hosting a show on Cable 10 called Let's Talk Sports, and I would call into that program. You would, eh? Yeah, on Cable 10. Yeah.

There's my story. But I think Wilner and Ben Wagner sound great together. I think they, you know, I don't know if they like each other. It doesn't matter to me if they do or not. I'm sure they do. They seem like nice guys. It's a good broadcast to listen to. I really like it.

Now, that was... So this is episode... Will you tell Wilner that, by the way? You know, next to you, Wilner is my most frequent guest. I don't want anybody mad at me, right? I mean, I want to have the opportunity to say... Well, that was a long time ago, that episode, 89. This is episode...

What did I say this was? 352. I've listened to, I think I've listened to over 200 episodes. Is that right? I believe so. I'm honored because I've heard over 200 episodes of Sportsline, so now we're even. Alright, we're even. And I've listened to 13 episodes of Hebsey on sports. Okay, we're more than

even. Do you have a favorite episode of Toronto Mic'd? You know, I find that the ones I listened to most recently have superseded the ones I listened to a long time ago. Like, I love the one with Mike Richards that you had on a while ago where he revealed like everything about his health,

about what goes on behind the scenes. He named names. Yeah. You know, that was great. He's coming back, by the way, if anyone's listening. Yeah, he was great. The one I listened to recently with Ann Romer. Yeah. Man, Ann and rober she's got to learn to work the mic a little bit better no i tried an inexperient was she an inexperienced broadcast no she wore those lavalier mics so that was a recent one i really like the one with dan o'toole and jay on right i like that's the other one this is what the other one was you've had jay and dan on separately. Yes. You have not had Tim McAuliffe and or Sid Six Zero.

Now, I don't think it's fair because I like both. I like all four of them individually. Yep. I like them collectively. Right. But I have to tell you. Yeah. I would love to see Sid and Dan and Tim and Jay.

Okay. Well, people know I don't have favorites. I'd like to see a mix. No, no. I would like to see them a mix-up. I think for one day that they would replace. So instead of being with your regular partner, you get the guy from the other duo. I know one's an afternoon television show

that's three hours or two hours or whatever and all. Well, you know, I tried to create some conflict there. And Jay was, no, sorry, Dan wasn't biting. I was trying to create a little conflict there because there was a Tim and Sid first before there was a Jay and Dan in the, because you worked at the score. create a little conflict there because Tim and Sid first before there was a Jay and Dan. Because you worked at the score. Yeah, I worked with both Tim and Sid.

And they were there, and that's when they were put together. Now, I should just let the world know that I've tried. I've reached out to Sid and Tim. In fact, Tim and I had a brief conversation in which Tim, he's mulling it over maybe later this summer, I got.

So that's the best I got from Tim. So he might come on. Sid, I can't get anything out of Sid. I might have to. Do you want to talk to him? Yeah, of course. Of course. Yes.

He might answer an email from me. Because I mean. We're on a last name basis. Sixero in Hampshire. Yeah, I would love to have Tim and or Sid on Toronto Mike. Now, okay. So, but that was episode 89 when we had our great 90 minute. Do you have a date?

Episode 89? I know, I don't. 2015? I didn't write it down, but it's been a while. 2015? It's been a while. You came back for episode 112, and in that episode, we basically, I had you tell me 10 stories, I think.

I said, like, we talked about the David Clarkson trade. That's what time it was. David Clarkson trade? By the way, did I tell you, when my teenage son, he has, speaking of the score, he gets alerts from the score app.

I love that score app. Yeah, it's a good app. It's a great app. He got an alert about David Clarkson was traded by the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And so, I didn't have it yet. He just said, Dad, we traded Clarkson. I swear to you, I thought he was effing with me.

I thought he was joking. I laughed out loud and good one. That's the kind of shit I pull on him all the time. I thought it was a joke. No way did the Leafs just trade. How could the Leafs trade that contract? And then of course it ended up being true. They found this very creative way to get that off the books.

And yeah, so that's when we, and then we also talked about Dean Blundell's new morning show. So we must, this must be when Blundell was starting on the fan. Speaking of Greg Brady. So Greg Brady goes away. There's some crap they do over there. And then eventually ends up with Dean.

Dean goes away and Greg comes back. So, you know, it's all connected. Have you had more success with the sports net, the Rogers people or the TSN Bell people? The Rogers? It's a tie. It's all connected. Have you had more success with the Sportsnet, the Rodgers people or the TSN Bell people, the Rodgers? It's a tie. It's a tie.

It's a tie? Because I can point on the Rodgers side, I can say, oh, Shulman just came on, Brunt just came on a second time, Wheeler comes over

whenever I ask for it. You're talking about big, big names that can pretty much write their own ticket. I don't think, I really don't think. Okay, but Elliot Price

has been on, Hugh Burrell. Yeah, I know, but yeah, okay, that's fine, but yeah, you're right. Yeah, I know. Okay, that's fine. But yeah, you're right. I would say the term. But there are some, though, like you say, where you've said before that they have been told, basically, by the corporate people, no.

Wait, Sportsnet people? Well, no. Not here. No. On Pitch Talks. On Pitch Talks. No, I've never had. No one has ever said, look, my bosses won't let me come on your show.

From Sportsnet? Yeah. No. From CBC? No, from... TSN? No, I had this from 1010, and I had this from CB24,

which are Bell Media, but they're news people, I would say. Right. I've yet to have a sports media personality told they can't do my show. See, I think if you've done the toronto mike show right you're you're in like flint now you think so i mean it worked out for freedom people know who you are not just what you do is from a sports reporter realm but they they know

you as a person right and that's the most important thing i'd like to know what whoever you've been trying to get from cp24 i'd like to know, whoever you've been trying to get from CP24, I'd like to know about this person beyond what they look like on television or what I think they might be. I don't know about that. Look, the one with Dwight Drummond was terrific. I knew Dwight Drummond from watching him on City TV and on CBC. I didn't know anything about his background.

I had no idea. I'm with you, man. That, to me, makes it interesting. Now, there are some sports media personalities that have said no. One guy we've mentioned a few times already, Bob McCowan, right? So Bob McCowan said, no, thank you. But that wasn't his bosses telling him no. That was Bob

deciding no. And I can't get to Blair, and I've stopped. I mean, no, some fan asked. Why do you want to, though? If you keep saying no, no, no, no. Well, I've never asked Blair in my life, actually. It's like asking a pretty girl out, and she goes, no. And then, you know, wow, and then, no. And now I've never asked Blair in my life actually. It's like asking a pretty girl out and she goes no. And then you know, wow, no. And now you've got some dough. You've got a new Lamborghini.

And she still says no. I'm with you. So with Bob McCowan, I asked him twice. He said no, no. But there was like years between the asks. And I'm not asking him anymore. He knows how to contact me. Jeff Blair, I've actually, I've never asked Jeff Blair. A fan, a listener, Mike Gregotsky I think

his name is he asked after the recent Patreon call that you joined uh he asked Jeff Blair and then the next morning next day on Baseball Central Jeff Blair discussed the invitation with Bark didn't mention the name of the show but discussed the invitation with Kevin Barker and basically laughed it off like who the hell cares what sports media people have to say? I think Barker was actually trying to defend the premise or whatever. I can't ask Blair. He blogs me on Twitter.

What? I know. I know. For no good reason. I've never tweeted a bad thing at the guy. Wait. For no good reason. No. I got caught up in you know how other people say something negative and you're copying on it? And I think they just unfollow everybody. He just blocks everybody.

I got it. So you were part of a thread that you didn't want to be a part of. Correct. Okay. And that's why he's blocked you. And the tweet that offended Jeff Blair was not from me.

But whatever. That's fine. There's lots of people out there. But you had commented on that tweet or something. Yeah, something innocuous. So you've just got to be careful. You've just got to be more careful. Really, before you hit send, you've just got to be a little bit more careful.

It was innocuous. Okay. So episode 112, you came back and we had some great stories. Now, in episode 150, this was interesting. This was David Schultz's time to shine, okay? His first appearance, the deep dive. This is great. This is the history of my appearances on Toronto Mike.

Yeah, I had this scheduled to be two minutes long. It's going to end up being half an hour here, but episode 150, David Schultz, we go,

it was great. He's talking about, he talks about working with Bob McCowan on, it's all about Bob McCowan today, on Primetime Sports. He talks about Blundell versus Richards.

He talked about the perceived- Blundell versus Richards in the morning shows. Correct. Yeah. We talked about the perceived... Blundell versus Richards in the morning shows. Correct. Yeah. We talked about the perceived bias...

What perceived bias? I don't even... With Rogers hockey? Oh, I guess we talked about how... We talked about, I think, how does Rogers hockey people objectively cover

something from their partner. Yeah. David had written a fair bit of stuff in the Globe and Mail at that time about the... He was really one of the only ones that knew what was going on kind of behind the scenes and the whole structure of the Rogers hockey deal and Hockey Night in Canada, basically the CBC getting sort of kicked down to second rate status, all that jazz. Now you, it says Mark Hebbshire crashes the party.

So you, I remember I left the door open and you let yourself in and you just, David Schultz had no idea. I was nearby. You came down the stairs. Schultz looks over his shoulder. There's Hebze coming down the stairs. I think he was a little scared, to be honest.

But you sat down on this third mic and then you told the fresh story of what happened with you and CHCH. So that was right after you were in the wrong room. That's a great story. People need to go to episode 150. You were in the wrong room. But you actually came back.

And we'll get back to the CHCH thing in a minute. But episode 241, which was the very first jam kicking, the first of, I think we've done 46 or something. Have you really done 46 kick out the jams? Yeah, in one year. And that's not including all the deep dives. I mean, to be honest, Toronto Mike is prolific. Everybody needs to become a patron.

Patreon.com slash Toronto Mike. Help crowdfund this sucker because we're just getting started here. Oh, it's great. Look, the idea, when you first told me about the idea, Kick Out the Jams, and I believe I had a lot to do with you going forward with it and offered to do the first one. You offered to go first, which was great. Yes, and I also offered to be the host of a You offered to go first, which was great. Yes.

And I also offered to be the host of a show where you kicked out. Okay. That's right. Right. Do you remember? Because you are such a vast knowledge of music and such a passion for music that it was almost like when you're listening to, and I've heard enough of them.

When you hear other people's kick out the gems, you're like, Oh, I love that song. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that might be on my list too. And you always know I don't love the song when I don't say that. I won't say anything.

I won't say, Oh, I hate that song. Right, right, right. Which is very important too because you don't want to say, because imagine someone going, I love this song, and you going, I hate it. You can just go, oh, I never heard it before,

or move on to the next song. And you've done 46 of them. Mazel Tov. 46 kick out the jams. That's good, right? Mazel Tov, that means good luck. That means way to go. Way to go.

However you want to take it. Greg Brady is going to kick out the jams next week. So he's the next guy to kick out the jams. So that's episode 241. If take it. Greg Brady is going to kick out the jams next week. So he's the next guy to kick out the jams. So that's episode 241. If you want to hear Mark Hebbshire kick out the jams, it was great fun. And it was the first one and it really helped roll things.

So thanks for being first. In his book, in his recent book, John Gallagher wrote that he'd take the piss out of you because he felt you were stealing Chris Berman's nicknames for Sportsline. Do you wish to address what he wrote in this book? That was Gallagher writing in his book? Yeah.

So in John Gallagher's recent- What is he writing? I never read the book, but what does he say? My copy is with Troy from Great Lakes. We'll get to that in a minute. But he wrote, he would watch Sportsline. Yes. And he also would watch Chris Berman, I guess, through cable. I guess he could- Yeah, on ESPN,line. Yes. And he also would watch Chris Berman,

I guess, through cable. Yeah, on ESPN, yeah. Right. And he would hear Chris Berman's nicknames for players because that was what Chris Berman would always do, right? He would give players creative nicknames. Yeah. And then he says he would hear you use the same nicknames

on Sportsline. And then he said the next morning on Q107, he would, his words, take the piss out of you. I think that's a strange expression, by the way. I'm not sure I would ever use that expression.

But he says, he would take the piss out of you for stealing Chris Berman's nicknames for athletes. Right. See, I never stole. And now, the other thing was

is that I had been using nicknames, not with regularity on a television show, but it had always been, nicknames had always been a part of sports. Always. Of course. Some guys had weird nicknames and not with regularity on a television show, but it had always been, nicknames had always been a part of sports, always. Some guys had weird nicknames somewhere. Where'd you get that nickname from? Arthur

Two Sheds Jackson from Monty Python. Why do they call you Two Sheds? Well, I had a shed and I was thinking of buying another shed and my friend started calling me Two Sheds. So everyone's got a nickname for a reason and some of them flowed. Oil can Boyd.

Some of them flowed, but the ones that Berman did were similar to the ones I did, which were if the guy, like he had one for a pitcher named Jim Deshaies, Jim two, two, two something on the shades, two shadows on the shades, something from a song.

Or he, at Burt by 11, for example, he'd be Burt, be at home by 11. Sure, so I mean, everybody had those. Everybody. Look, there was a guy named Jimmy Gunn. His nickname was Tommy. Tommy Gunn. So, I mean, this has been going on for years.

But I think what happened there was, I think there was a professional jealousy. I could see that between you, because you guys had similar sports commentary, alpha male personas or whatever. And I could see that. But also Gallagher is a diehard Montreal Canadiens fan to the point where he can't objectively talk about hockey because of his incredible love for the Canadians, which washes over his journalistic abilities. Do you know what I mean? I do know what you mean.

It's a hard thing to do. If you're a fan of a team and you're a diehard from the time that you were a baby, you're a journalist you've been brainwashed you have to have a balanced look and if his balanced look was leaf suck i love the habs and you're working in toronto well you might have some issues and listen i never had any problem john i see him every so often get along with him but i just think that in those particular days especially there was a jealousy. Someone was doing something and now you're accusing me

of stealing stuff from Chris Berman? Believe me, I had plenty of my own material. I didn't need to steal. The concept? He might have thought I stole the concept because ESPN was a lot bigger than global television. Sure. But I didn't steal the concept. I gotta get you a copy of this book. I can't believe this book's

been out for a while now, but you didn't know you were in it, obviously. There's no index. That a copy of this book. I can't believe this book's been out for a while now, but you didn't know you were in it, obviously. There's no index. That's one of the things. You can't go to the back and just see, oh, Hemsher. No, you're the first to tell me about it. And I had seen the book. It's about Babylon or something to that effect.

And I breezed through it, but I didn't know there was a thing about it. But again, you're talking about someone who was envious of someone else's position. And in those days, I guess especially, you could just sort of say, well, this guy doesn't know what he's doing or something to that effect. Look, he said something about me on the radio many, many years ago. He was with Mike Hogan on the radio. He had said something to the effect of, well, what kind of a play-by-play guy can he be for the Argos

if he's not there at practice every day? Well, I was doing double duty. I was doing mornings on Q107 and 640, and I was the voice of the Argos, and I did all the Leaf games with Joe Bowen. So here he is kind of saying on the air that I wasn't a good play-by-play guy. Now, I got to tell you something. I would never do that to someone in the same profession as me. It's just not my style. You want to, you know, you want to rail about someone else that's in your business. Look, any doctor that says something about, Hey, see that doctor over there. He's not a very good doctor. I'm sorry. A professional courtesy. So you don't like what I'm doing. That's fine. You want to tell people off the air that I'm a jerk and I'm a scum bucket

and that I treat women this way. And you know, know, hey, listen, I don't appreciate that. But don't be saying on the air, you know, about someone in the same business as yours that they're not a very good broadcaster because they don't go to the practice. I don't appreciate that. And now he's writing it in his book and fine. He was jealous.

Well, remember when you heard the Ann Romer episode? Ann was great. Because Gallagher's been on twice, but I think his first time he told a story about Ann Romer episode. Ann was great. Because Gallagher's been on twice, but I think his first time, he told a story about Ann Romer walking down the aisle. I'm going to guess this is the Steve Podborski wedding. I'm going to guess. It's either Steve Podborski or her second husband, Bill.

It's a cameraman, right? Bill, yeah. And you worked with Bill? Bill Barker, sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I knew Bill very well. Because neither marriage lasted that long, right? Well, Podborski, that was like six months, I think, or something.

But anyway, I think it was one of those weddings. Gallagher tells a story where Anne is ready to go down the aisle and says something to him to the effect of, I'm making a huge mistake. Like she's Job from Arrested Development or something. And I told the story because this is on the record, on my podcast. And Anne Romer says she would never have invited gallagher let alone disclose something like that to him before she walked down

the aisle so we have to take some of these gallagher stories with a grain of salt so i'm glad you're here to set the record straight uh oh and i want to play really quickly before i give you a gift uh for making your fourth appearance one two, two, three, fifth appearance? Oh my goodness. And you're here twice a week, which we'll get to, but I want to play a clip of Joe Bowen calling a part of a Leaf game, and you are on it,

but just really quickly because I have this audio. Sure. ...at Murphy, and Potvin breaks the stick of Lacroix. Clark's got Lacroix down. He's got a couple of lefts going at him as in comes Hextall to grab Puttbath.

Now Puttbath and Hextall are fighting. Off comes Puttbath's helmet. Hextall throwing punches at Puttbath. Felix throwing an uppercut lands on Hextall. Right on the butt. They're railing away at one another. Hextall sweaters up. That's a find. Here's another throwing punch. Hextall with an uppercut. Felix throwing wags and left. The pileup is underneath, but the main event is the goaltender. Oh, Felix is popping him.

He has thrown a bunch of punches at Hextall. He's got him dragged over the top. Murphy doesn't want to break it up because he'd be the third man in talking to the referee here but I'll tell you what Felix Potvin wins this one hands down I didn't know the rules at the time that if a fight breaks out it you know it's the play-by-play guy to call the play right I just you know I'm watching this going on, and Joe is a huge fight fan anyway, and Joe has called lots of fights before.

So he's totally in his element. Right. And I'm next to him, and I'm pretty sure I'm pounding him on the shoulder while this is going on. Like, this is great. I hear you do a couple of, oh! Oh, my God. Like, it was great.

It was great because Hextall was just such an asshole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, from a- Well, Hextall is the call. Right calm right well you remember what he did to Chelios that time I mean he was a madman yeah crazy man yeah and I know for a fact that Felix did not like like did not like him at all I had had conversations with Felix about this because goalies know all about other goalies goalies know goalies like the backs of their hands. I know this guy, I know that guy, I know what sets him off, all that. And Felix was not a fan of Ron Hextall. He was a good goaltender, don't get me wrong.

But he was just too easily, not intimidated, bothered by, and emotional. Felix was not an emotional type goalie. He was very stoic that way. And he knew how to get under Hextall's, if you wanted to, you could really get under Hextall's skin, right? You know, clip him on the way by. So when Felix broke from the net that night in Philadelphia, and it was the first year of the

first union center or whatever, it wasn't the Spectrum anymore, the first year. And he started skating and I just remember going, oh my God, he's going to attack Ron Hextall. Because he hated Hextall, he couldn't stand him, and Hextall was just being a jerk. And Hextall, I mean, Felix Poffin is giving up some inches, right? Oh, yeah.

Because Hextall's a big boy. And this is in Philadelphia. And the crowd is booing lustily. I mean, you know, they want blood. And Felix and Joe, you could tell, were like, we didn't think Felix was capable of this. Like, we thought at first he was going to get his ass kicked by Hextall. Sure, sure. But oh, my God, it was sensational. Yeah. It was great at first he was going to get his ass kicked by Hextal. But oh my God, it was sensational.

It was great. Well, just listen to that. I can hear you in the back. And of course, Bowen wants to, you're right, he wants to call this fight. And of course, I would be the same way. I mean, you're just described. But the thing is, is that Joe is,

he's, this is radio. He is describing every, do you know what I mean? You hear the crowd and he's like blow by blow. This is a left, a right, the jersey comes over there. And so there's no real room for, you know, I mean? You hear the crowd, and he's like blow by blow. This is a left, a right. The jersey comes over there. And so there's no real room for, you know,

a color commentator doesn't break in and go, and by the way, Joe, on the other side of the ice, I noticed that Pat Burns is doing. No. This is what's going on right now. So, oh, he hit him with one shot. I guess I never heard that. I haven't heard that before.

He hit him with this one. I can see the shot now. He hit him with an uppercut, and he stood him up. The first good shot that Felix hit him with, andercut and he stood him up. The first good shot that Felix hit him with. And that's when I, I'm sure I went, whoa,

like, which I loved. Was that Felix? You know what it reminded me of? Okay. Did you hear the episode of Toronto Mike with Gord Stelic?

Yeah. So I played the Down Goes Brown clip. Down Goes Brown. Phil Van Lefebvre. Phil Van Lefebvre. Down Goes Brown. That was great.

And Gord told me the same thing, which is, of course, Bowen's calling that. And Gord's watching it. And Gord's trying, doesn thing, which is, of course, Bowen's calling that. And Gord's watching it. And Gord doesn't want to step on Bowen's call. Right. But his mic is live.

Right. And he goes, TKO. Yeah. He's like your ringside. It was great. Here's the best part of that story. When the game was over, we had to go. We were on the Leaf bus.

We used to travel with the team the joe bowen and i because we did every game on radio so as soon as the game is over we had a plane to catch to go somewhere else so it was like dress fast and then the players in their street clothes have now got to walk up a ramp to where the bus is but it's below the arena but in that walk up the ramp which is outdoors there's all these flyers fans on both sides of the ramp throwing stuff at the players, screaming obscenities, hurling stuff. So now we're going up this ramp, and

Joe and I have to be with the players. So we're sort of part of this big group of players. People are looking at us. They don't care if we're broadcasters. They're firing stuff at us, and now we have to get to the bus. Right? And then the bus has to get out of this parking lot, the Leaf bus. And these fans were mean and yeah the philly fans are notorious they were crazy throwing batteries and stuff probably

finally everybody gets on the bus right and the doors close and everyone kind of goes and i think of what it might have been wendell clark i don't recall but anyway someone goes cat what the hell did you do to hex like you know what the heck did you do to hex youall? Like, you know, what the heck did you do to Hextall? You're going to have the entire town against us. And Felix had a smile on his face. I can picture it now. He just beat up Ron Hextall in Philadelphia. The Cheshire Cat.

Right? And escaped the wrath of the Flyers fans. Oh, yeah. And then a couple years later, Ty Domi got involved in the penalty box in Philadelphia.

I remember. Right? Where the guy came, tried to beat him up and came through the glass and oh my God. So the Leafs in Philadelphia. This has been going on for a long time.

But that Felix fight. Man. He gave it. It was a great night. That was a great night. No, I just, I needed an excuse to play it. I'm like, I got Hebsey. He's on that tape.

So that's perfect. Now I have a gift for you. Yes. Now there's a six pack in front of you from Great Lakes Beer. I'm disappointed that you're going on a road trip soon. Where are you going again on your road trip? Oh, we're going to go see Vladimir Guerrero and the New Hampshire Fisher Cats play. He's going to be, he'll be off the DL by then.

It's in around the 18th of July. 18th, okay. So we're going to Manchester, New Hampshire, which is about an hour out of Boston. We're going to Boston. We're going to catch the Jays Red Sox the day before the All-Star break. That's the Sunday. Then we're going to see some concerts.

We're going to see... Let me guess. You're going to see Aerosmith and Boston. No. No, okay. We're going to see Foo Fighters. Oh, nice. We're going to see maybe the Eagles.

We're going to see hopefully Alan Doyle Alan Doyle is in Massachusetts he'll be in New Hampshire perhaps Little Feet oh wow that's for Andy Frost and at least one show with Los Lobos our buddies who do

the theme song to the Hebzeon Sports but they're friends of mine as well and they're probably one of the best rock bands to see live anywhere I mean live

nobody better nobody better than this band Los Lobos so now that we've done 13 episodes of Hebzeon Sports if I hear this riff I'm ready to like I'm ready to do my thing

so it's like Pavlov's dog you know you hear that. So we're taking a road trip. Baseball. Oh, I forgot. The Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. So we got the Baseball Hall of Fame. At least one ball game with the New Hampshire Fishercats and one with the Blue Jays and Fenway.

Foo Fighters. Los Lobos. Maybe Alan Doyle. Oh, golf. I think we're going to play golf at Brookline Country Club, which is where they had the U.S. Open and the Ryder Cup. So golf, baseball, music. How's that sound? No, it sounds amazing. And I'm happy for you, but also a little disappointed

because you'll be out of town on July 19th when we're having the Toronto Mic'd listener experience at Great Lakes Brewery. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry too. You might have to cancel your plans, I'm afraid, but you do have that six pack now in front of you.

And I love, you know I love Great Lakes beer because when I go to my favorite bar, they always have Great Lakes and what did my wife... Bryden's, right? That's right. My wife the other night had

over my dad's body. Yeah, yeah. If you don't have one, yeah, you should have one. That's it, right? There it is. They're the Pilsner. And my favorite is Red Leaf,

which you never have. You know what it, right? There it is. They're the Pilsner. And my favorite is Red Leaf, which you never have. You know what? They never give me Red Leaf. Well, you tell the folks at GLB that if I'm drinking Red Leaf at Bryden's all the time and I can't get it for free on Toronto Mic, what am I coming in for? No, Bryden's, I mean, you and I met up there recently and I had myself an octopus wants to fight at Bryden's. That's pretty good too.

Yeah. I was at Sherway Gardens yesterday and they have a place in Sherway, in the food, the new food court of Sherway Gardens that serves up Great Lakes beer. So, and even, you know, we can even get it at Canada's Wonderland now. Like there's a Canada's Wonderland brew.

I haven't been to Canada's Wonderland in years. Kingswood Music Theater, right? Right. You see like a Barenaked Ladies or Beach Boys or something like that. But like, yeah, like the Mike Love Beach Boys, but Styx, you saw Styx of the original lead singer at

Kingswood. Yeah. Do you know that they did not, after Dennis DeYoung, I think I told you this, but they stopped playing Mr. Roboto. Yes, thank God, because that was one of their weakest. But they just brought it back like a week ago. One of their weakest. The good thing is that Lawrence Gowan, Styx now plays three or four Gowan songs as part of yes like strange animal or like uh criminal mind and

some stuff like that yeah there's a couple other ones maybe but yeah they play because moonlight desire i'm trying to name all the hits those are the three big ones i think i just uh high fashion model magazine what's that called i don't remember that i only remember three aging beauty queens if it didn't get a much music video, I don't remember it. So Great Lakes Beer, that's a six-pack for you. Thank you. Enjoy. I also have a message for you

from Brian Gerstein at propertyinthesix.com. Raptor's devotee, Brian Gerstein. That's it. Raptor's devotee. Very good. Let's hear what Brian has for you. 303-0292 is the number to call or text me for any of your real estate needs. If you are looking to list, my marketing to help sell your home or condo for the highest price includes a pre-sale home inspection, professional floor plan and photography and videography, plus extensive printed online advertising. Hebsey, I came across a tennis promo for an exhibition match played at Copps Coliseum between the one and only John McEnroe and Jim Currier, with you facing off against Nick Dixon just before, who was

a CHCH anchor who did over 5,000 newscasts over 11 and a half years there. Firstly, who won the match that you played? And did you have a chance to chat with Johnny Mac? And what was he like in person? Thanks, Brian. Wow. Uh, in actual fact, what happened that night was myself and Nick Dixon in doubles took on Ty Domi and Claude Lemieux. You changed it up then since you recorded the promo, right? Cause the promo said you were going to play Dixon. Yeah. I don't recall ever. I wasn't going to play Dixon in singles. He's a much better player than I. He played high-level tennis. He was ranked in Ontario.

Yeah, he was a really good tennis player, and I'm an average. I'm a C-plus player, maybe. Domi and who did you play? We played doubles against Ty Domi and Claude Lemieux. Oh, wow. Now, I mean, listen, you're playing two professional athletes. Okay, they were both retired athletes, but still, these guys were guys were professional athletes they're athletes they could hit a tennis ball really hard so we lost but nick was all over the court man nick was like diving for shots and just

and we played in front of i don't know there was a couple thousand people there they were there to see the mackinrow edward courier match john John McEnroe was incredibly rude and disrespectful. I'm not surprised. I thought maybe it was like a schtick, like a Macauan thing or whatever, but this is the real Johnny Mac. Yeah, he was really flippant. And yeah, I just didn't, you know, I was the emcee that night as well. So I'm doing the on-court interviews with the two guys.

Look, it's an exhibition match. McEnroe got mad at the chair um. Look, it's an exhibition match. McEnroe got mad at the chair umpire. He started berating him. He's a very competitive guy. He started berating him. These are a couple of seniors guys doing a thing at Cops College. Anyway, so I wasn't impressed with John McEnroe, and he was exactly as I thought

he would be. So there you go, Brian. Sorry to disappoint you, buddy. Dixon, so speaking of CP24, are you still friendly with Nick Dixon? Haven't seen him in a while, but yeah, Nick and I were always on good terms. Good guy, funny guy, knows his stuff, really knows his stuff.

And he was at CHCH when I was there. He got out not that long afterwards. He was in the room that- He was in the room that I wasn't supposed to be in. Right. That's correct. He was in the room that I wasn't supposed to be in. So he That's correct. He was in the room that I wasn't supposed to be in. So he got to have his old job back at like half the price or something like that.

But he was smart. I don't know the details. I don't know the details of that. I do know this, is that the employees that were kept on were given 48 hours from that Friday afternoon. They had to, by Sunday at 7 o'clock, announce their intention to stay with the station under the new terms, whichever they were. The rumor was that you weren't getting paid the same as you were before.

No, for sure not. Or that you were not, and you were going to go on and look for a job somewhere else. And there's no severance. So I never understood the, like, of course you would take the gig and then, like, do what Dixon did. You'd take it and then find something else like dixon did because you weren't getting severance and you didn't get any

severance from chch i'm really not enjoying this part of the conversation because when i when you first showed up for the first episode of hebsey on sports you saw leaning against this wall i had the old chch posters and you turned it around and i knew it was still it still hurts right like it's because because you were there so long and then you were you're canned uh then you do this scam and you turned it around and I knew it still hurts, right? Well, sure it does. Because you were there so long and then you're canned. Then you do this scammy move where they don't pay you any severance and that would piss me off royally as well. Well, they said they had gone bankrupt

and that they were going to take the station off the air. So imagine this. Imagine, let's say McDonald's decides, you know what, for the weekend we're not going to sell any hamburgers. We're closing up our McDonald's. We're not providing the service of selling McDonald's decides, you know what, for the weekend, we're not going to sell any hamburgers. We're closing up our McDonald's. We're not providing the service of selling McDonald's hamburgers. This was a television station that decided that they weren't going to provide the service of local news or any programming whatsoever for the community for like a couple of days until they got their act together and found a way to get around a legal

loophole and then come back on the air like nothing ever happened before, but minus about 150 people. And so, yeah, it was very distasteful. But it should be illegal. And not professional. And we checked into the legality of it. And then we were in a situation where the union that represented us, I felt and said aloud that they were in a terrible conflict of interest because they were supposed to be representing the interests of their members, their paying members, their union members. Yet instead, we're also representing the new members of the new CHCH group and collective bargaining agreement there. That was a conflict of interest. I still maintain to this day it was the worst possible conflict of interest because what they did was they took our union dues for

all those years. And then when the time came that we really needed their representation, Unifor, they were nowhere to be found. And then they basically said, look, there's no severance for you guys either, but we're going to work on getting you some money. And like, it was like, they expect, Oh, we got you some money. Not nearly enough, less than 10% of what we were owed in most cases. Terrible. And as if that was enough, you know, for. Well, no wonder you get turned around that poster. I'm going to burn it.

I'm going to burn it. I don't want you to burn it, but it does leave it because the station is on the air and they're serving the people of Hamilton and Niagara and Halton and all that kind of thing. And they're doing it, you know, to me under some false pretenses and they shouldn't have been allowed to act that way. They should have had to have paid severance to the employees that they, you know, kind of pulled the rug out from under. Now, that day that you got, I mean, you were in the wrong room, but the day you got the news that you were no longer employed there, Liz West also got the news that day. Yes, she did.

But she got it differently. She wasn't even in the room. She had gone home for the day, and someone was supposed to phone her and say, oh, by the way, you're fired, you know, or whatever the case was. We weren't fired because the station went bankrupt. But then when someone says, what happened to you, what are you going to say to them? Say, well, I know the station went bankrupt.

Yeah, but they're on the air. Yeah, well. Well, the whole thing's so shady because whatever, Channel Zero, whatever, dissolves. And then a new numbered company rises from the ashes. It's called a successor company. And you are not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to have a company go bankrupt and then open another company that's called a successor company, which does basically the same thing. And they did exactly the same thing,

the new company, except they were the managers of the news thing. The new company was a management role or something to that effect. Anyway. But you and Liz, okay, I know we'll leave the CHA stuff. We covered all that anyway.

And it's very, I can tell it's painful to talk about that. But you and, so Liz West was hosting a show on CHCH with you called Square Off. Correct. And you guys, when you were let go, whatever that term we'll use, whenever they, whatever, whenever they stop paying you, we'll say that, you guys started a podcast called Square Off, right? Right, that's correct. And so this format continues.

Because we had a pretty successful television show called Square Off that had been on for many, many years. The show was on actually for almost 13 years. Liz had hosted it the last five years with me. And you guys recorded at the Humble and Fred studio. We recorded our podcast, yeah. The podcast, of course. Humble and Fred studio, that's right. And how

long did the... Sorry, you changed names. Oh, no, we had to. See, no, no. What happened was when we started the podcast and called it Square Off, our former boss at CHCH had gotten in touch with Liz saying, oh, you can't use that name because we have the copyright

to it or whatever bullshit it was. Sure. And then he wanted to be paid for it. Oh my God. He wanted 500 bucks to use the name. Like a one-time 500? Yeah. That's so petty. Yeah, like 500 bucks.

First of all, why would you even bother asking for it if it's only 500? If it was five grand or whatever, okay. Well, Chorus asked for five grand from Humble and Fred to use their name. Humble and Fred. But I mean to say,

look, we'll take $500 and we'll let you use it for your podcast. We basically said, you know, screw you. And we changed the name of the podcast. We called it No Fun Intended. No Fun Intended. As opposed to No Pun Intended. And we did 257 episodes of that show. That's a lot of episodes.

I think so, too. We did, you know, two a week for, you know, about, uh, I guess about, uh, two and a half years or something to that effect. And then, you know, stuff happened where, uh, you know, Liz, Liz got, um, you know, Liz is an actress as well and, and, and a producer and she, you know, some gigs came along that were, you know, good paying gigs. Uh, and she didn't have the time to do the podcast, do it. Let's put it this way. She had the time to do it, but not to do a really good job of it. And if you're a professional like Liz is the last thing you want is to put your name next to something or your voice next.

That's subpar. You want to be able to put 100% into it. So we agreed to dissolve that particular show. Not forever, maybe. You canceled? Okay, you paused it. We paused the show, and Liz has gone on and is doing her own thing, and I'm doing Hebzeon Sports, the sports.

Well, here, that's also a key part of the story, I think, is that Liz West, she loves talking about entertainment and news, and she's a very smart woman, but she does not. She's very well-versed when it comes to those topics. Right. More so than I am. But there is a topic she does not love. No, she doesn't love sports.

Right. So you can't do a sports podcast of Liz West anyway. No, no. And listen, there were. So you can't do a sports podcast of Liz West anyway. No, no. And listen, there were many times on our No Fun Intended podcast where a sports-related issue would come up and we would have discussions about it. But no, Liz. And listen, she doesn't go deep down when it comes to sports the same way I don't go deep down when it comes to entertainment, for example.

Your Kardashian knowledge, you're not as passionate about that, maybe. Or maybe a little bit. And look, who's to say what's more important than the other, right? Sports is silly, right? Is Solarte's home run trot, or the lack thereof, is that any different than what's Kardashian? Anyway, her area of expertise and knowledge

was not sports like mine was. And if you don't enjoy the podcast material, so long story short is you decided to part ways with Liz because she was busy with other things. No, no, no. We mutually decided that we couldn't do the No Fun Intended podcast together anymore.

We couldn't. The time was not available for the two of us to get together and do the show and do a good show. So we put it on pause. She's doing her projects. I'm doing my projects. And one of those projects is a, is a podcast about sports. Hebsey on sports because, uh, sports is a massive passion of yours.

It's, uh. When someone says to you, Hey, look, love you with Liz on No Fun Intended. Are you ever going to talk about sports? Right. You know, you kind of go, well, you know, that person knew me for being a sports guy. Right. Hebsey. Heb for being a sports guy. Right? Hebsey.

Hebsey's a sports guy. And most people know you. I mean, as successful as Square Off was on, and I'm not taking anything away from that on CHCH, but the vast majority of Hebsey fans love your takes on sports. I'm going to just speak on behalf of the fandom. When I first took the job at CHCH, the first thing they asked me was, do you know anything besides sports? Because they wanted to know if I wanted to do a news and current affairs show.

Do you know anything besides sports is what they asked me, to which I said, yeah. And then they had a quiz for me. Like, you know, there were some political questions. There were some environmental questions. There were some non, there were non-sports questions to see if, you know, he could do something besides sports, if he could host an interview, something besides sports.

And I proved to them, I think beyond the shadow of a doubt, since the show was on for almost 13 years, that I did know something beyond sports. And so, yeah, but you're right. People are like, oh, he's a sports guy. So what am I going to do? I'm going to fight that? No, I'm not.

I know politics. Ask me anything. No. So there's now, and I mean, full disclosure, you are the driver of the content and you're the host and you write the rants and the things you talk about

on Hebsey on Sports, but I do sit here in the same seat I'm in right now and I, what am I, in fact, I have a question. I'll get to the question about it, but I'm involved in Hebsey on Sports, so I just disclose that, I guess.

Yeah, you produce the show, basically. Right, okay. That's the word of magic. You produce the show, and you're the technical person. And I chime in now and then, which I'm doing a little more of than I used to, but I'm trying not to do it too much.

Well, no, no. But the thing is, it's a conversation. I love sports, and there are certain things that I will point out on the show, as I always did when I was hosting a sports talk show or commentary, whatever you want, or editorializing, where if an athlete does something that I don't like or a team or something like that,

I'll say it. And if they do something that's great, I'll say that as well. And I think like any other sports fan, I want to engage in interesting, enlightening, passionate conversation about sports. Look, if I'm bored by something, I won't even bother with it. But if I watch it and I'm enthused about it, and even if I don't have skin in the game with one of the teams, I think healthy discussion about that game or that player

or that particular play or whatever is what every sports fan wants. And there's now a website W, I guess you don't have to say the W's anymore, right? We can just say Hebsey on Sports. I dated myself. Hebseyonsports.com. People can go there and that's sort of like a good gateway to subscribe to this podcast

because in all those typical places you find a podcast, including this one, Toronto Mic'd, you will find Hebsey on Sports. You know, it's an Apple podcast, including this one, Toronto Mic'd, you will find Hebsey on Sports. You know, it's in Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher,

it's in TuneIn, it's in all those regular spots. So subscribe to Hebsey on Sports because our episodes are typically about 35 minutes,

I'd say. I've noticed they sort of come up. Yeah, you know what? The other thing is when you do a podcast, someone says, well, how long is the podcast?

Well, you've got to have a feel for it as opposed to a time limit. Now, obviously obviously if you're working in regular radio or television terrestrial you have to have it has to be a certain time it has to be 30 minutes or 60 minutes or if you include the commercials here it's like whatever feels comfortable and what we found was around 30 35 minutes is about right it is i think what's happened is we're doing 30 minutes but every episode is including a wonderful little uh interview with uh an athlete at the end which i'm gonna play one in a bit uh i'm gonna play a couple through this episode but uh which i i love because i get to sit back and

hear for example today we recorded and i heard willie upshaw talking about his first major league uh home run his first major league hit He talked about the drive of 85. And I'm just like, oh my God, like Willie Upshaw. And it's just great fun to hear these conversations that you've had. Like this is you conversing with these athletes. So we're doing 30 minutes and then there's a bonus five minutes

with somebody like a Willie Upshaw or a Jesse Barfield or a Lloyd Mosby or whatnot. It's fantastic. Not just Blue Jays guys, but lately we've done a lot of Blue Jays. You have hockey heroes and other athletes as well. I got dead guys. I interviewed them when they

were alive. Thinking that, boy, this guy's got some great stories. What if I never see this guy again? Or what if the next time I see him, he's incapable of articulating a story about when he played the game? And so what I endeavored to do for a number of years, probably the last 25 years, is I wanted to digitally record interviews, even if it was only a couple of minutes, just to get something from the guy. So when the time came that it was relevant or, look, even when the guy died, for example, say, well, you know what?

This is how I remember him. So I got stuff from like Rocket Richard and John Bell, guys like that who told stories about their first game, impressionable stories, which I always loved. I always wanted to know because people would ask me the same thing. Do you remember the first time you did radio? Yeah, I'll never forget it. It's et etched in my memory the same with all these athletes and

musicians any one of them once they became famous they remember that time they remember that moment when they said wow i've made it that kind and that's usually your first game in the majors or your first hit record if you're a musician the first time you did a live show. Those are the moments. If you dreamed your whole life of something and you finally achieved it, you remember that moment vividly. Now we're going to hear from Kelly Gruber in a moment, actually. But let me just urge people listening. And yes, I'm a little biased here.

But even without the bias, this is the kind of podcast I want and I crave. So I love Hep C on Sports. Even if I wasn't on it or involved at all, I'd listen to Hebsey on Sports. So go to Hebseyonsports.com and subscribe to this thing. We've done 13 episodes. We're going to do two a week when Mark's not on these road trips to see bands and the Fisher Cats.

But Michael Wayne. I might bring back. Listen, I might go to that Fisher Cats game and go, you know, I got some good material here for Hebsey on Sports i maybe get vladdy guerrero okay maybe i get beau bichette maybe i get the future jays no i love it and then when they come and start playing in toronto people are gonna go hey you know what i remember hebsey did an interview with him and then we'll play it again in new hampshire when he was a kid yeah that's great michael lang uh is a listener and in fact, I met Michael Lang at the Grilled Cheese Challenge.

So it was nice to meet you, Michael. I think he was on our Patreon call as well. He asks, and this is from Twitter yesterday, is he, he's talking about you, is he paying his podcast studio engineer handsomely? So Michael Lang just wants to make sure that you're paying your podcast studio engineer handsomely. Well, I'll tell the truth, which is that we're recording these things.

And then I will share in the proceeds that come from sponsorships. So when people sponsor Hebsey on Sports, I get a cut of that for my time. So instead of me saying, hey, renting out my studio to you or renting out my engineer skills, that's our agreement, which I'm comfortable with and you're comfortable with. Yeah, we have a mutually beneficial, look, we're good for each other. How's that? Right, right, right. You have- But on that note, though, I need to do a little selling here, which is that we, and this is

exciting. There's one sponsor right now, sort of your flagship sponsor, I suppose you would say, is tell us, a golf club is sponsoring Hepzion Sports. It's called Crosswinds Golf. It's in Burlington. It's right between Mount Nemo and Rattlesnake Point, right where there's a break in the Niagara Escarpment, so in North Burlington. And they've been my sponsor for a

number of years. I've had a relationship with them for over a decade. It's a great golf course, and I know, oh, that's what you're saying, but it's reasonably priced. It's 45 minutes from Toronto. It's really beautiful. I got married there. The banquet facilities are really great. The food's great. And I think it's like a hidden gem. And the pricing is not like Toronto golf courses, which are 200. It's 200 bucks to play Eagle's nest to hunt 205, 205. it's like 165 to play copper creek now these are these are places that you can get to within a half an hour of downtown toronto so you got to drive another 15 minutes or whatever you're going to go to a place that's less than 80 bucks it's gorgeous and they've been my

sponsor and you know what getting sponsorship in a podcast as you know mike is a is very different than regular radio you've got a radio. Your sponsor really has to be someone that likes you and likes what you're doing and wants to have an association with you. You're building your brand and you want to build their brand as well. So it has to be mutually beneficial for both parties. And in the case of Crosswinds, it is. I play golf there. I tell people how great it is, word of mouth and on the podcast, and they pay to be on the podcast and be a sponsor. So that's great. Crosswinds Golf. It's great to have them on board, uh, Hebsey on sports. Uh, but this is also a call out to anyone listening that if you

want to, you have room for a couple more, right? So there's, there is opportunity to sponsor Hebsey. I mean, we don't want to squeeze in. We don't want it to be one of those brought to you by, and then you're the next five minutes, you're just listing out a bunch of sponsors. No, no, but there's definitely room for a couple more. So yeah, if anybody is interested in specifics, they should contact Mark Hebbshire. He's at Hebbsyman on Twitter. It's easy to get a hold of him.

And yeah, just to have a chat with Hebbsy and he'll tell you about the opportunities available to sponsor Hebbsy on support. We'd love to have you. Speaking of sponsors, this wonderful sponsors, this wonderful camp, this organization, Camp Tournesol,

they agreed to do three months of sponsorship, March, April, and May, but they were so happy they decided to extend it through June because people are still, there's some stragglers still signing up their kids for French camp this summer, but we're at, what is this, the 25th of June.

So this is probably the second last time I'm going to be playing this song for a while. And I'm going to miss this Nana Muscuri jam. But let me just say, if you have a child between the ages of 4 and 14, it's not too late to get them into the largest French camp in Ontario. They have a program for your child in the GTA. There's tens of thousands of children that are going to be signed up to Camp Tournesol camps this summer. Your child should be one of them.

So it doesn't matter if your child's francophone and French immersion or has no French experience. They have a day camp or an overnight experience for them. So go to campt.ca. Check out what they have there. There's so many different wonderful camps there for your child. And when you do register your child or children for French Camp at Camp Tournesol, please use the promo code Mike

because it lets them know that you heard about it on Toronto Mike and then everybody wins. And you will save $20 by doing that. So money in your pocket and it lets them know that sponsoring, yes, people should be sponsoring Hepzion Sports, but of course also Toronto Mike as well. So please support

our sponsors. Go to campt.ca I'm going to miss that jam. I told my brother just this past weekend, I might still play it, like even without the mention, because it's a wonderful song. We need more Nana Muscuri in our summer. I'm going to ask you about something, I think it ties in nicely with you, but are you aware that Sportsnet personalities are no longer allowed to appear on those pitch talks and hoop talks and puck talks. You had mentioned that to me.

And I think my first question was, why would Sportsnet not allow its personalities to do these events where, let's face it, you're meeting people, hundreds of people, in person, in the flesh. And I think that can only enhance your role as a television sports personality. You're actually meeting these people and they're going, hey, he's a real guy.

He's a real, it's a real person. It's a real woman that's, you know, there. But beyond that. Well, I think it comes down to the C word. I think that executives at Sportsnet have deemed these pitch talks, for example, these events as competition. I think now that they're sponsored, they are streamed, digitally streamed. I know Twitter, for example,

I think you can watch them live on Twitter. That now it's sort of a broadcast that sells sponsorship, but features Sportsnet personalities. So if you think about it, it's pretty much, I would say, dare I say, a no-brainer to sort of say, okay, guys,

you can no longer appear on the competition. Once you're deemed competition, that's when you get in trouble. But if you're Sportsnet, you say, why don't we just do the same thing? We use our personalities and we brand it, you know, Rogers pitch talks or whatever you were going to call it, okay?

I suspect they're thinking of doing that right now. It's a no-brainer. I know. It's an absolute no-brainer. Lots of no-brainers here. Someone else comes up, look, someone else comes up with an idea, you take the idea

from them you make it better that's what happened with the show off the record with me i came up with the idea i presented it to tsn right and then a few months later the show was on the air with michael lansberg as the host so have you uh you know i'm like wait a minute that was supposed to be did you ever uh in your many appearances on Toronto Mike, did you ever drop that bomb before or is this the first time? I can't... Did you tell this story before?

Mike, how many shows have I done here? How many Toronto Mikes have I... Am I supposed to... If I wouldn't have read your notes, if you wouldn't have read your notes, would you remember what I said in episode 89,

in episode 150? But I've had too many... No, I just, I don't recall. Off-mic conversations with you that I can't tell those conversations apart anymore. That's the other thing.

And when you get older too, you're like, have I told this story on this show or. That's the other thing. And when you get older, too, you're like, have I told this story on this show, or did I tell the story on another show? So you pitched an idea to TSN that was essentially off the record. Oh, it totally was. It totally was. This was the idea. This was the idea.

I had seen a show called Politically Incorrect. With Bill Maher. No, way before. Whoa! Way before Bill Maher. Way before Bill Maher. I believe Craig Kilbourne was the original host. And it might have even been someone else before that. This was in its infancy. This was on a cable station in the States.

It might have been the comedy network in the U.S. many, many years before Off the Record started, I would say. Or at least a couple years. And the idea was one guy sits there, and on either side of him he's got two people on this side and two people on this side. And here's our first topic and it wasn't sports it was anything and the moderator who i get i again i think it was craig kilbourne says all right here's the thing i don't know you know the political blah blah blah and my guests are so and so so and so

so and so and so and so these are four people from four different walks of life famous in some way shape or form maybe one was an athlete one was. Maybe one was an athlete, one was a politician, one was a writer, and one was something else. And the moderator would just say, here's the topic. What do you think? Mike, you're first, right? And they would go around to the panelists, and then the host would engage them in conversation. He might poke the bear. He might say something that gets people going, and you'd have arguments and discussions, and it was great. And I said, wow, we should do this for sports. So myself and an executive producer came up with the format, everything like that, approached TSN, had a meeting with TSN, presented the idea to TSN.

We never heard back from them, and then a couple weeks later, they announced that they were starting a show called Off the Record. That's soon thereafter. It appears that way to me because we didn't hear back from them. But two weeks, two months. And this was before the days of social media, but still it was like kind of a, geez, you know,

like how long does it take to get an idea from someone, right? To go over it with the important people and then to make a decision as to whether you're in or you're out. So I guess you can take an idea. And to me, I felt that that was my my idea i was made to do that show i thought when we put the show together we put the show together with me being the host pretty well-known guy knows a lot about different sports good at uh uh being a moderator an mc moving the program along all that type of thing and and, you know, perfect.

Sure. And I knew Michael very well. And when I first heard about it, I thought, jeez. And I know Michael, he wasn't the one to go, oh, I want to steal this idea from Mark Hebbshire. No. But I think the guys at TSN went, hey, there's no patent on this idea.

We could tweak it a little bit and make it our own idea. Or we could just take the idea that he had and not tweak it at all and just put a different host in there. Wow wow yeah i don't know i don't that's uh i don't know anyway so and i walked believe me and i was a guest on off the record many times with michael many times okay his producer todd hayes or bob mackiewicz jr or matt cause would would call me more on quite occasionally and say hey come on on the show because they knew i'd make a great panelist right and meanwhile i'm going okay i'll do the show. Because they knew I'd make a great panelist. Right. And meanwhile, I'm going, oh, okay, I'll do the show. I think I was working at CHCH at the time several times.

And I'll do the show. But every time I was on the show, I was like, oh, man, I want to be sitting in Michael's chair doing what Michael is doing. Right. And is that envy? Yeah. Did I dislike Michael because of it? Absolutely not.

No. Michael and I got along very well and still do. Was I upset at the TSN brass? Yeah. I kind of wished I would have gotten some kind of acknowledgement. Well, you feel they stole your idea and didn't compensate you. That would piss off anybody. Yeah.

It wasn't so much the compensation. But that's still part of the... I think that I would have been great for that job and that somebody at TSN said, let's take the show, but not Hempshire. I kind of got that feeling. Maybe I was just paranoid. Now, I brought up the pitch talks and Sportsnet thing because if the Sportsnet personalities are pulled from pitch talks. So two things here.

One is you're not affiliated with Sportsnet and therefore you would be ideal for these pitch talk. I think you'd be ideal for these pitch talk. I think you'd be ideal for these pitch talk events. So I don't know if anyone at pitch talk is listening. Talk to Hep C. I just think you'd be perfect up there. I think so, too. Thanks. So we're going to try to make that happen.

Also, the last pitch talks that featured Sportsnet personalities was the infamous Kelly Gruber. Have you heard? I'm sure you read about it, but did you hear any of this? The controversial appearance infamous Kelly Gruber. Have you heard, I'm sure you read about it, but did you hear any of this, the controversial appearance by Kelly Gruber? This wasn't that long ago, maybe two weeks ago. I did, absolutely. And this is the risk you take

when you've got retired athletes or you've got someone, and I don't know if alcohol was involved or not, but this is the chance you take when you are dealing with athletes, former athletes that used to be big names, are used to having things their own way, and now they're retired and in some cases are bitter

or they're trying to make a name for themselves or trying to get noticed, something to that effect. And unfortunately, in a lot of cases, their treatment of women uh hasn't changed has not evolved and that's what happened with kelly gruber where um the young lady ashley docking who i don't know if does she work for sportsnet is she a freelancer there i feel she freelances there but anyway and and it's very good and kelly gruber must have thought hey i can take advantage of this girl or i can say stupid things. Oh, yeah.

He said, we don't need you up here. We don't need you up here or stuff like that. And that's the chance you take when you're doing live stuff. And so I had heard that. And I can't say I was surprised because Kelly has, you know, had a few instances in the past where he's been persona non grata or banned or please don't invite him or we don't want him. He has a reputation. He has a reputation. And in your experience, and I'm going to play a little clip

of you chatting with Kelly Gruber in just a second here, but in your experience, did you ever witness sexism, like rampant sexism from Kelly Gruber? Rampant sexism? Or it doesn't have to be rampant. How about any sexism? Let's put it this way. I think the expression is cringeworthy.

I think when an individual cringes at what someone else says or does, that's a pretty good barometer. And I had cringed a few times when I was around Kelly Gruber. Let's put it that way. Now, this clip I have because we played it on a recent episode of Hebsey on Sports. So let's just listen to you having a brief chat with Kelly Gruber. Listen to you having a brief chat with Kelly Gruber. Was there a specific incident that if you had a chance to do it over with, you would have just to sort of make peace with yourself? Well, no.

You know, that's why I'm out, basically, is because the standards and the goals that I set. I wanted when the game was over, when I was done, inevitably there's always a day when that happens, that I wanted to look in the mirror. I didn't want to sit in that rocking chair and have those exact sentiments. What is it that I would have done different? I wish I'd have done this and I wish I'd have done that.

I didn't want that at all. In fact, I wanted to know that when it was all said and done, that I gave it everything that I had and I spent it all out there. And, you know, pretty much that's what did me in. The Jays consistently tried to get me to tone it down. What do you mean tone what down? My play, my aggressiveness. I was often described as a football player playing baseball you remember and sure you know it for me they were always trying i didn't want to concede anything hey

well what what specifically did they say like did you take someone out on a double play or was it a particular thing where they just had they actually sat you down and said you can't play like this what was my was my uniform ever clean but yeah you know who was involved in that uh in that well they were concerned with me because i was obviously getting hurt a lot and um you know i just everybody from from a to z that uh had anything to say with the blue jays all the way from management to the brass you know hey kelly try to tone it down a little bit when you you see that you're out, maybe instead of going in and having your beliefs and making somebody pay for it, and nothing's free,

and, you know, playing that way, why don't you try to preserve yourself? And that's just the way it was for me. That's the way I knew how to play, and I think that's why everybody liked me, because they knew what they were going to get when I went out. So that was me, and that's the way it was. And I couldn't do that. And I think inevitably that's probably way it was. And I couldn't do that. And I think inevitably that's probably what got me out of the game sooner than later.

But you know what? Any consolation to it all? The championship money too. I mean, if there was anything that really helped me deal with it, there's been so many greats that have played the game that I got the opportunity to win a ring. And that to me was everything. I know how difficult it must have been. But this water skiing incident when you were supposedly injured, can you set the record straight? Sure. I think I was told I played basketball. Let's see. I did tennis. I did water skiing. I thought there was something else. And in reality, the most I did was Frisbees. But, you know, I think that was Marty York. And I mean, I think with that, enough said. Marty York.

So when this Gruber news broke, I actually was reminded that, I don't remember what number it was, but when Marty York was on this show, he went off on Kelly Gruber and said some awful things about Kelly Gruber on Toronto Mic'd, and I went back and listed it as the one hour mark.

And then I heard this clip from Kelly, and yeah, well, so it's fair to say Kelly Gruber and Marty York did not like each other what do you have because then I asked Stephen Brunt I asked this is before the Kelly Gruber situation arose but I asked Stephen Brunt about uh Marty York and Stephen took the classy uh if you have nothing good to say about something don't say anything at all excuse me uh what are your thoughts on Marty York I grew up with Marty. So we were friends when we were kids. And then I didn't see him for a number of years. And then when I started in the business, Marty was just, I think, starting at the Globe and Mail or around that time. But anyway, during my halcyon days, let's say, Marty was a columnist with the Globe and Mail and wrote, I think, might have written four columns a week, maybe more.

mail and wrote, I think he might have written four columns a week, maybe more, and had some very controversial things to say about a lot of people, had a lot of athletes and brass upset with him. He was a rabble rouser. And he was pretty good at it for a while until he ran into a bit of trouble and lost his job. But he got accused of plagiarism. Yeah. Yeah, he did. And prior to that, some of the stories he had written of plagiarism. Yeah. Yeah, he did.

And prior to that, some of the stories he had written really pissed people off. He had written a story about Conrad Holloway, who was the quarterback of the Argos, and had said that he was taking a substance called DMSO, which was like a horse tranquilizer. I don't know if it was ever proven or not, but boy, that's a pretty good accusation to all of a sudden come out and say, oh, what's this guy's doing? And the story with Kelly Gruber and a lot of the Blue Jays was Marty was the type of a guy who, and I don't know if he did this on his own or his editor said, look, you got to dig up some dirt, but Marty would dig up dirt and he'd piss a lot of people off. And in a lot of cases, the stuff he had was correct. His sources were good. And whether you wanted to believe it or not,

you kind of went, well, if it's in the paper, it must be true, that type of a thing. Especially the Globe and Mail, because that's a well-regarded news publication. Now, you have to understand that at the time, the Globe and Mail was Canada's national newspaper, and I mean when newspapers were extremely relevant and there was no web or anything. But you had columnists like Al Strachan, Marty York, Stephen Brunt came

later. You had guys like Trent Frayne, who was a veteran guy. You had William Houston. You had, oh, Larry Milson wrote baseball for many years, an excellent, excellent writer. James Christie, who just passed away recently. He had some really good writers for this magazine, for this newspaper. And I think a lot of the guys looked at Marty and kind of went, how does he get away with this stuff? And he was pretty well paid. And, you know, he had some interesting stuff, but it was always, it seemed controversial. So with Kelly Gruber, he, whether he had it in for Kelly Gruber or didn't have it in for him, Marty was intent on getting the story.

And when he found out that Kelly Gruber was on the disabled list and someone had seen him water skiing up... But he was with California at this time, wasn't he? Was he with the Blue Jays when the water skiing thing happened? Oh, I'm pretty sure he was, yeah. Because what happened was, it's like, what do you mean Kelly Gruber's not playing? Well, he's on the disabled list. Oh, really? I saw him water skiing the other day.

So, again, whether that had happened or whether Marty's source had actually seen him or whether this was part of the let's give it to kelly gruber who knows i mean well if you listen to that episode on my show where he's talking about you know while kelly was in toronto speaking of kelly's wife at the time uh it's clear marty has it out for kelly gruber i'm not so so you know what I mean? Entirely possible. He discloses his strong bias at the time. Well, here's what happened. This is what I know for a fact happened because I was there. Kelly Gruber,

sorry, Marty York wanted to get some dirt on the Blue Jays. And the only way to do that was to eavesdrop on conversations and write down what he heard. No one was going to give him anything on the record. So what happened was uh he marty had gotten into the blue jay clubhouse prior to the end of a game i don't know what happened it might have been the ninth inning two outs or whatever and and marty

said i gotta get in and i gotta sort of hide somewhere and i gotta hear some conversations and uh the story goes like this he got into the clubhouse before the game was over you know i don't know how probably wasn't that tough to do you got credentials you sneak in when the trainer's not there or the door is open for when the players are about to come off the field snuck in went into the bathroom went into one of the stalls closed the door put his feet up on the toilet seat so no one would see any feet there and just listened and heard conversations involving cliff johnson ernie witt gruber you know guys like that and um was discovered somebody found him out and i believe the story the story goes like this is that cliff johnson

picked him up one-handed shoved him against the wall and threatened to kill him. If he ever wrote anything or did anything like that, that type of a thing. I know that happened. There was yelling, screaming. And Cliff was a tough man. Oh man. Heathcliff was a tough guy.

So, I mean, they physically, you know, assaulted and Marty didn't go and say, I was assaulted by the blue Jays. Cause he knew he was in the wrong. This is the story that I understand to be true.

I don't know if Marty ever, ever mentioned anything like that, but this is where I think people went, whoa, you know, wow, to what lengths does a reporter go to get the story? And I had never heard of a reporter anywhere sneaking into a locker room somewhere and hiding so that he could eavesdrop on private conversations. Wow. And then write about them after the fact. That's pretty wild. It's like that scene in The Late Shift when Jay Leno's hiding.

Yeah. Well, you know, you're right. But much worse. Yeah, but Jay didn't the next day say, oh, I'm ripping Bob Wright from General Electric. What are the jerks for doing that? He didn't do that. And it wasn't a locker room where there's some semblance

of expectation of privacy, I think. Well, here's the thing. When the door is open to the media, the players all know that the media is there and anything they say

will be reported by the media. It's possible that the media will report it. But they don't say, hey, when you go into the bathroom with your buddies and you're taking a leak and the guy next to you

just made an error or something like that or you're talking about a guy's wife or you know private and and and you the expectation of privacy has to trump everything else now you find out the next day in the newspaper that what you said behind closed doors was repeated you're gonna think your teammate the one you told the story to poisons at story to, at the next urinal. This is why we collapsed in 87. It was Marty York's fault.

I don't know, but I do know this. You're reading something going, wait a second. There was only one other guy in the bathroom with me when I told the story, and it was so-and-so the catcher or the left fielder. Right. This is an episode of Three's Company waiting to happen, I think. Right. Right. Hebsey, you pay bills, right?

I do. You got to pay a bunch of bills. We have that in common. You know how you pay your bills easily and get paid to pay your bills is you download the app from Paytm Canada. Go to paytmcanada.ca. Download the app for your smartphone. Every dollar you spend paying a bill, you get a Paytm point, which you can then

redeem in the rewards section. But here's the kicker. Here's the best part. When you pay your first bill, use the promo code Toronto Mike. That's your referral code when you make that bill payment. They'll give you $10 in Paytm cash you can use towards a bill payment or a reward purchase. Just enter the promo code Toronto Mike. I pay all my bills with Paytm. You should too. It's fun. They made bill payment fun. Who the heck thought you could make bill payment fun?

Well, they did. Matt Roberts on Twitter, Hebsey wants to know, which interview with an athlete were you most nervous for and why? It would have to be early in my career. Can I mention two in one? Yep.

Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler. When I first got the job in radio and found out that I was going to cover the Toronto Maple Leafs as a reporter, I was issued credentials, like actual credentials by the Maple Leafs. Stan Abodiak was the head of publicity. I went down there and he wrote my name down on a pass and my affiliation, the radio station I worked for. And now I was

able to go into the locker room, interview the players, do all those things, had access. And I, you know, as a teenager, my favorite players were Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler. And you have to remember, I was 15, 16, 17, 18 years of age, and these guys were my heroes. And now I'm, you know, 21 years of age or whatever it was, 20 years of age. And now I get a chance to interview these guys. And the way you did it in those days is you went through the PR department. You would say, I'd like to request an interview with Daryl Sittler and Lanny McDonald. And he would say, okay, after practice at 1130 AM, meet them outside the dressing room, that kind of thing. So what in those days, no cell phones or anything like that. So Stan Abodiak

would say, oh, I need a phone number to call you to let you know, you know, what's going on and when to meet them and stuff like that. Unbeknownst to me, Stan Abodiak had given my phone number and I'm living with my parents at the time, had given my phone number to Lanny McDonald. Okay. Not to Daryl, but to lanny right to say uh hey uh this kid hebshire is working for this radio station he wants to do now in those days there was the only interviews you really did were with the newspaper guys or if you got in between periods on hockey night in canada there weren't a lot there wasn't a lot of requests let's say compared to now for an interview and so the guy would sit down with you and you would do the

interview you either on radio you'd hold the microphone and ask questions, or television once in a while in those days. It was film back then. So it's not like they had tons of requests. So one day the phone rings in my parents' house. I think I'm 21. The phone rings, and my mother answers the phone. And this voice on the other end, I'm looking for Mark, please.

And my mother goes, oh, he's not in right now or whatever. He says, well, could you tell him that Lanny McDonald called? And he leaves his phone number, right? And my mom's like, oh. And she didn't know who Lanny McDonald was, or if she did, it didn't register with her. And I get home, and she goes, you got a phone call from Lanny McDonald. And there's a phone number. And I'm thinking, someone's joking.

You know how this one is. Oh, someone's joking around, blah, blah, blah. And I call the number back and the voice on the other end, distinctive voice. Hello? I'm going, hi, it's Mark Hepsher. Oh, yeah. Hi, Mark.

Lanny McDonald. We want to get together tomorrow. I spoke to Daryl, blah, blah, blah, blah. And meet us at 1130 outside the dressing room. Oh, OK, thanks. And I freak it out. Lanny McDonald just phoned my home. Wow.

Right? Left a message. I phoned him back. I have his home phone number, Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler. So I was really nervous because now, you know, I didn't know what to expect and these guys were my heroes and they could not have been nicer. And all the nervousness was unwarranted.

They were as down-to-ear earth, nice guys, answered my questions. Beautiful. I won't say took me under their wing, but they know how welcome to the Maple Leafs and, you know, don't talk to this guy, talk to that guy, you know, watch out for him. He likes to play practical jokes, you know, all those types, they showed me the ropes. And I've never forgotten it. And I have to tell you that, I mean, you know, whenever someone asked me about, you know, classy guys and, know athletes that were that were worth following that were the reason that i admired them uh i found out that all the things that i thought about them were true that they

were nice guys down-to-earth guys would talk to you and that was settler mcdonald on a leaf team that if you were on that team today with the media coverage there was you would never ever probably find out how great a guys they were. They wouldn't have the opportunity. There'd be too much buffer. So much. Insulated. Correct.

Yeah. You could never get a call on yourself from, I don't know, who's an equivalent. Austin Matthews isn't calling you for the interview. It's going through how many layers of PR before it's arranged. And even to the point where they were like, where do you want to do the interview? Like, where would you like? I don't know. Let's do it right here on the bench.

So we sat on the Leaf bench. Oh my God. Sat on the bench. And the Zamboni driver, Sam, waited until I was finished the interview before he took the Zamboni around because the noise of the Zamboni would ruin the interview. I mean, really.

Different times. So there's your answer. Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler. I was nervous, very nervous, because they were my heroes and they were both fabulous. So just like Lanny McDonald and Daryl Sittler were young Mark Hebcher's heroes, when I was a 10-year-old boy, my favorite ballplayer, which my favorite sport at the time was baseball, and my favorite team was the Blue Jays, and my favorite ballplayer was George Bell. You, I owe you a huge thanks,

because you secured this little slice of audio just very recently, a few weeks ago. Let's hear that. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listened to Toronto Mike. So thank you for doing that. That's amazing. Sure. Wow.

George, the biggest pain in the ass that ever walked the face of this earth, Bell. Right? No wonder I loved him so much. The most difficult interview, the most, and you'll ask anybody, he was a real SOB. I mean, there's all kinds of stories about George. There's a story of one guy who, an audio guy from one of the TV networks when they were doing Jay's games, and you would be in the dugout,

you know, with the wires and everything like that prior to the game, and a ball from batting practice rolled into the dugout, and this guy kind of picked the ball up, and George Bell came by a while later and said, and he swore at the guy and said, you put that effing ball back. Like out of nowhere. It's like, hey, George, don't you have other things to worry about

than worrying about a shag bag baseball from batting practice? This is the kind of a guy that he was. You just didn't know what you were going to get with George. So when I did run into him, it was like, what if he tells me where to go? What if it's the old George Bell, the old, you know, angry George Bell when he was a player? No, couldn't have been nicer. Didn't really want to do the interview. Uh, and then eventually I said, nah, come on, George, I covered you for years, you know, don't be the angry guy anymore. And then gave me a really nice interview.

And then at the end I said, look, I said, you're my, you know, a buddy of mine, my, his favorite player was you. Right. And I said, uh, it's Toronto Mike. And he just goes, I said, can you record something? And he's like, okay, go ahead. Like, you know, he had maybe a five second span there where it was okay with him. He wanted to know more about you. What's this guy all about? And all that kind of thing. I said, subscribe to his podcast. I showed him your pod on the thing. I said, see, this is his podcast. It's all Toronto stuff, Toronto Mike. And him to come to my basement. No, I did. I showed him your podcast. On the thing, I said, see, this is his podcast. It's all Toronto stuff.

Toronto Mike. And he's going, okay. And then, you know, roll that tape and then, you know. Tell him no one's giving him more press these days than Toronto Mike. So you did chat with him, as you said, before you got that nice promo for this show, which was amazing. What's the most memorable thing about George Bell? I asked people, you know, what do you remember most about George Bell? Well,

can I tell you my list? Okay, so to me, and this is my personal list, is he makes the final out when we clinched the pennant in 85. Drops to his knees. Drops to his knees, and Tony Fernandez comes up and gives him a high five.

High five. So that, and I watched that game, because the night before, when we were supposed to clinch, and Tom Henke blew the save, I believe. That's right,

yeah. The catcher for, what was his name? The catcher for... Ron Hasse? Ron Hasse, maybe it was. Butch Weineger. Yeah, I think one of those two. Well, Hasse was the last out. Hasse, it must have been Hasse. Okay, yes. I think Weineger, somebody hit a homer in the ninth or something and

ended up, we lost in extra innings and I listened to that game on the radio. I didn't watch that on TV. I was listening on the radio, Tom and Jerry. And I was listening. We blew it. Oh my God, we could have, this would have been

our first ever pennant. Then the next day at my grandparents' house near Midland, Ontario, I'm watching the game on TV. And this is the game Doyle Alexander gets the win. Wasn't even that close.

I think it was 5-2 or something like that. 7-2, I think it was. 7-2. My brain's got a 5-2, but maybe you're right. It's a long time. But the final out is this shallow pop-up

that George Bell gets on his knee. I was thinking, I'm 10 years old or something, I'm like, you gotta make the catch. You can't go on your knees. You'll drop that ball. But of course, he makes the easy catch, and then there's that big pile-on. And so my favorite George Bell moment is that. that moment right there

where he makes that final final out of course the opening day in 86 86 no 88 88 the opening day I watched that at my other grandparents house near Guilford in Guilford Ontario he hit three home runs Guilford up near Halliburton

up near Alliston like on the other side of the 400. It's near Bradford. It's a different place then. But I watched that game where he hit the three home runs on opening day. That was right after his 87 MVP.

So it was like, oh my God, is he going to hit 50? He had 47, which was the Blue Jays record. First Dominican to win the MVP award. Is that right? 1987. The Jays were great at

scouting Dominican players. That was like our thing. Damaso Garcia, Tony Fernandez, Alfredo Griffin. They had an academy really before any other team. I mean, the Dodgers had one there too, but in the Dominican, Epi Guerrero had a phenomenal baseball academy.

And the early years of the Blue Jays, a lot of those guys they had scouted. Like the George Bell scouting. Right. Because he's a Rule 5 draft guy. He's a Rule 5 draft pick. The Phillies buried him in Helena, Montana. And he ended up, listen, he ended up being exposed. And the Jays picked him

up for $25,000. And if they didn't keep him on the roster that year, which was $81,000, they would have had to offer him back to the Phillies for half the waiver price, for $12,500. So they had to keep him on the roster the whole year. The 81, they would have had to offer him back to the Phillies for half the waiver price for 12, 5. So they had to keep him on the roster the whole year. Right. The entire season.

And he didn't play that much that first year, but they had to keep him on the roster or they would have Yeah, this is the year before he hit like 26. He hit 26, I think,

the year next. But the next moment, which is what we're looking for here because I've heard this interview, Bruce Keeson, his last year, I believe, in the majors, he just passed away, Bruce Keeson. Yes. And I always thought it was Keeson. I'm an idiot. Keeson his last year i believe in the majors he just passed away bruce keeson yes

and i always thought it was keeson i'm an idiot keeson of course but he uh he hits george and george charges the mound and does this drop kick and yes what a moment that's a like a infamous george bell moment in fact i'm going to play the clip here uh this is your just before he did the promo for toronto mic this was your chat with the i call it the elusive george bell george when you came to the blue jays you were a rule five picker i'm from philadelphia do you remember your first game with the blue jays yeah what happened three for four who is the pitcher carwellwell. Who? Carwell. I don't remember. Mark Carwell for the Milwaukee Brewers. So that was your first major league game? My first major league at bat.

And tell me about the day. What happened? Did you get the call that day you were coming to Toronto? What happened? No, I came straight from spring training here. And I sit in the bench for a 20-something game. And I sit in the bank for 20 something game. And Mr. Bobby Matic tell me the same day I came in the clubhouse, he said, you playing today?

Wow, that was a shot. I wanna tell you, get my mind prepared, I wanna perform. Did you have a chance to phone home, talk to your parents, your brother, and tell them you were going to be in the majors? No, no, they knew it the soon I came in the spring trainer. I had the opportunity to make the team and I did make the team, and they dragged me along with them. I remember that too.

Number 11, left field. Maybe one of the most famous moments for you, besides three home runs on opening day in Kansas City, was the time that you took matters into your own hands with Bruce Keeson. He pitched and you didn't like the way he threw at you. What happened that day? It's a long story. That was, you know, that came when he was in California.

He didn't like Damo Garcia. He didn't like Lloyd. And I don't think he liked too many people when he was uh he didn't like Damo Garcia he didn't like Lloyd and I don't think he liked too many people when he was a pitcher when he was a pitcher and then uh in Boston he threw to Damo and threw to uh Alfredo and and Lloyd and and I said you know you guys got to go out there and get him. If he hit me, I'm going to go out there and get him, and I did. And that's not something you – you don't want to be remembered for that. But that was a key – that season, you lit a fire under the rest of the team, I think. Well, you know, in the old days in the big league you know the young team like we used to have like you know lloyd jesse myself damo alfredo garth willie upshot you know those guys

they can't handle it we beat them and they you know they start pitching inside and and you know knocked uh knuckles down us down on the ground. We got up and sometimes three, four strikeouts. And we went in the meeting and I said, hey, they got to stop, man. We got to respect the same way we respect them. If it's not going to work like that, we're going to go out there and get them. Toughest opponent that you ever faced? Who was the one guy that you knew you were always going to get a tough game from?

Mike Boddicker. Mike Boddicker. What, he threw a lot of off-speed stuff? Well, he's, he was very difficult to read when he was pitching. And he threw a lot of curveball, changeup, and threw like an 85, 86 mile per hour fastball and you always off balance. And he got my number for a while but I think I finished in my career. I finished hitting him real good. Proudest moment as a Blue Jay?

85. The whole season? The great moment ever. The drive of 85. Wow. That was exciting. By the way, George Bell did not go 3 for 4 in his first Major League game against Mike Caldwell. The Brewers, he went 1 for 4.

What? I went back and looked at it, but then when I looked at the interview, and I had interviewed him on my iPhone, so I recorded the video as well. And I looked at it, and when he said him on my iPhone. So I have the, I have, I recorded the video as well. And I looked at it. And when he said it to me, I'm looking at his face and he kind of had that look on his face like, Oh,

three for four. And he was, he wasn't telling the truth, but he sort of said it with a wry smile. And had I read into that, I might've, but now that I see, and I,

I checked that he wasn't three for four. And I looked at his facial expression. It was like, Hey, how did you do in your opening days? Three for four. He wasn't. It's so easy to fact check these things nowadays.

You might have got away with that 25 years ago. It was against Mike Caldwell, and he did. He sat for a number of games at the beginning because he was a Rule 5 player. I remember players like that. He wasn't good enough to be on the team. Willie Canate, I think was his name. There's a few guys throughout the years.

Willie Canate. Canate, but there's certain guys that you had to keep them on your roster the whole year you lost them. That's the rule five. So they just kind of sat there. Maybe they pinch ran if they were speedy or whatever. That's the rule five. That goes back many years and any bonus baby for you.

Like Sandy Koufax, when he was signed by the Brooklyn Dodgers, he was nowhere near good enough to play in the major leagues, but they had to keep him on the roster. They had to because they had signed him for, I think it was more than $5,000 or whatever. So yeah, a lot of times you wasted a roster spot for the future of your team. Had they had to give George Bell, what kind of team would the Jays have had if George Bell went back to the Phillies for $12,500?

Man, thank goodness we kept him. He's going to be 59 years old this fall, George Bell. He, Barfield, and Mosby are all going to turn 59. They're all born within like... This fall, six weeks of each other. That's amazing too. Yeah. That's amazing. What, Barfield, and Mosby are all going to turn 59. They're all born within this fall. Six weeks of each other. That's amazing, too. What an outfield. Now, here's a great question, and then I want to hear about

the book you're writing. First, an interesting question from Deer Cop. No, The Deer Cop. That's an important difference. The Deer Cop on Twitter asks, he says, okay, ask him, that's you, Hebsey, ask him if during the 1992 NHL playoffs, he dropped by the Majestic Electronics

in the Don Mills Center. Of course I did. And bet a very young employee $10 that Detroit would not come back from a three-to-one deficit to win in seven. I don't think he's got, that's what he wrote. Okay, I read it, but we were down three-to-one. Here's what happened. This is what happened.

The Leafs were down three games to one. And yeah, a majestic stereo. A young guy says to me, Leafs are going to come back. And I'm like, no, there's no way Detroit blows a 3-1 series lead. If he says I bet him $10,

Deer Cop, give me your address. I'll send you the check with interest. You hear that, Deer Cop? From 1992. So how much can I? Interest? You're going to owe him like $100. How can 26 years of interest on, was it $10?

Someone figure it out for me. We'll do that. Anyway, now that he's refreshed my memory, I do. Because who thought the Leafs were going to come back, except for a diehard Leaf fan, that they were going to come back from a 3-1 deficit against Detroit and their stellar goaltender, Tim Shevelday. Who believed for a second that Mike Foligno, in overtime in Game 5, was going to extend the series and then the Leafs were going to win in Game 6?

No, no. Wait, wait, wait. Game 7 was Borchewski. No, no, hang on. Were they down three games to one? Yes, they were down three games to one. It was not 3-0. It was 3-1.

And then they won three straight games? Yes. I don't know about that. I thought Detroit won game six in Toronto, which forced game seven back in Detroit. I remember, and it's been a long time, I remember being down 3-1, and it was like one of the few times in NHL history

a team down 3-1 came back. Yeah, I don't think so. See, I think Detroit won the first two, and I think Toronto won the next two, and then Toronto won game five to take a 3-2 series lead with Foligno, and then Detroit came back and won game six. Everyone's diving into Google right now. And then Toronto won a game. Jeez, now I can't remember that. I didn't recall us being down three games to one. I think we were down 2-0. The Leafs were down two games to none. Okay, maybe. They got thwarted in the first two games in Detroit, and no one gave them a chance. I think they lost 6-1 and 6-2.

They got hammered. Then I think they came back and tied. But I could be wrong. They could have been down 3-1 in that series, and then Foligno for sure in Game 5 in Detroit, and Borshevsky, of course, in Game 7 in Detroit. But I thought Game 6 in Toronto was won by the Red Wings. I thought Paul Izebart and Steve Iserman both had two goals

or something like that. I could be wrong, but anyway. Anyway, I'm sure someone can look it up. I'm sure Izebart and Steve Eizerman both had two goals or something like that. I could be wrong, but anyway. Anyway, I'm sure someone can look it up. I'm sure they can look it up. We will look. Oh, yes.

I'm sure everyone right now is diving into Google. So one more thing just before I let you go. Thanks for doing this and you'll be on again soon. So I'm going to save some 80s Jay stories

and Ballard stories and stuff for your next time. I love the Ballard stories. That's next time. But you have a book coming out. You are writing a book. I wrote a book about a fellow that I had never heard of before. My son had a trivia question. He said,

Dad, do you know who the first Canadian to win an Olympic gold medal was? And I thought I knew that the answer was Etienne Demarteau in 1904, St. Louis. And he said, no, it's wrong. It's a fellow named George Orton, who won in 1900 for the 2500 meter steep-meter steeplechase, and he also won a bronze medal that year.

I said, I'd never heard of this guy. How could I have never in all my years, and I know sports and all that stuff. Hebsey, how could you not know this? The most famous Canadian, and I'd never heard of the guy before, and I went to Google, and I looked him up in Google, and there was hardly anything about him in Google.

There was really very little written about the fellow except for he was born in Strathroy, Ontario, and grew up in Google, and there was hardly anything about him in Google. There was really very little written about the fellow, except for he was born in Strathroy, Ontario, and grew up in eastern Ontario, went to the University of Toronto, was a phenomenal athlete there, was crippled as a young boy, and had a dead arm. Like he had a right arm, but it was pretty much useless because of this fall that he had taken when he was a little boy. And I did a lot of research and and again, found stuff out about this fellow that was remarkable, spoke nine languages, invented hockey in Philadelphia when he went down to University

of Pennsylvania and did a lot of great things. Like a lot of really great things. Was a very progressive, opened the first camp ever for females, female only camp in the early 1900s. Started the playground system in Philadelphia, is in that city's Hall of Fame. And to find out that he was Canadian and the great things he had done,

and I'm not talking about he was born in Canada and then he moved at the age of two to the United States. I mean, he was there for 20 years and he did a lot of great things, but was never considered to be a Canadian ever. And even now is not considered to be Canadian, even though he was born here, raised here, educated here, everything. So I think there was a disservice done for many years.

And this guy wasn't recognized. And I figured, you know what? If I don't write a book about him, no one will because he only has one living descendant. She's 75, 76 years old and lives in California. And then when she passes away she has no children there would be no one to tell the story so i took this story as if he was my own grandfather and wrote a book that's called the greatest athlete you've never heard of when can we buy this book you can buy it in starting in february of 2019 it's available via dundurn press and i'll

be doing lots of press ahead of time and i'm very excited about it because it's a story that no one has heard and when I found out about it I was left with my mouth open like how could there have been such a human being and how did Canadians especially not know about this man I look forward to my advanced copy

and I'll wait to sign it too thanks for doing this man you're no Greg Brady and we'll let the listener decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. We'll leave it up to them. Thanks so much. Everybody should subscribe to Hebsey on Sports at hebseyonsports.com. And that brings us to the end of our 350-second show. You can follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Toronto Mike. Mark is at Hebsey Man. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. Paytm is at Paytm Canada. And Camp Turnasol is at Camp Turnasol. See you all later this week with Dark Guy. We'll see you next time.