Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ian Blurton: Toronto Mike'd #1088

Episode Date: July 28, 2022

In this 1088th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined in the backyard by musician Ian Blurton as they talk Change of Heart, Blurtonia, Future Now and so much more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Duer Pants and Shorts.

We'd like to thank the good God damn Jesus. We'd like to thank the good God damn Jesus. Good God damn Jesus. Good God damn Jesus. Change your heart. Good God damn Jesus. We'd like to thank the good God damn Jesus. Good God damn Jesus.

Change your heart for Toronto, Ontario. Yeah! What up, Miami? Toronto. VK on the beat. Check. Welcome to episode 1088 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com.

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Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana, the lowest prices on cannabis. Guaranteed over 100 stores across the country. Learn more at cannacabana.com. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Ian Blurton. Welcome, Ian. Oh, thanks for having me.

That was a slick intro. Nice cut there. No, I try my best. I'm in the presence of greatness. I got to step up my game. Ian, this was like, I think this was years in the making. When did we first start talking about this? Oh, man. You know, honestly, I don't know. But yeah. But was like, I think this was years in the making. When did we first start talking about this? Oh, man.

You know, honestly, I don't know. But yeah. But you're here now. It was years in the making. Decades. The pandemic got in the way. Yes. As it did all the way across the board.

Yeah. And we're in the backyard. I want to paint a picture for the podcast listeners. So, you know, I look at the forecast and it says there's a medium chance of thunderstorms right now. So I started getting like a little nervous. Like, you know, thunderstorms aren't good for the gear here, as you know. But it's actually right now. It's a pretty nice day.

It's a pretty beautiful day to be back here. It's gorgeous back here. Very nice. So welcome, my friend. Lots of ground I want to cover with you. Maybe we can begin at the beginning. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Change of Heart and a lot of your other projects too.

You're just such an important, to me, you're such an important figure when it comes to that 90s Toronto alt-rock scene that I love hearing about. You're a key cog in the wheel. Are you self-aware, Ian? No, I don't no not no not really i mean just because you know things you know it's like when you look back at something you can be like oh yeah but when you're in something no so maybe this next hour is my my duty is to to make sure this is your

life ian all right at the beginning like let's talk about it like where does it begin for you to make sure this is your life, Ian. All right, at the beginning, let's talk about it. Where does it begin for you in music? When did you realize you wanted to be a professional musician? Oh, well, I guess almost always. But I guess my mom has a memory of me. I was a huge monkeys fan when I was a kid. And,

uh, cause the reruns had started. I was born in 65. I think the rerun started in 69 or something like that. And, um, uh, my mom has this memory of me taking a skipping rope, putting,

taking one of the ends off and putting them down the drain. So it looked like I had like a mic cable. Right. And I'm like running around in the kitchen singing into the mic cable at you know six or whatever did you have a favorite monkey oh mike nesmith 100 nes yes we just we just lost mike yeah we just lost mike and you know like especially like even his post uh his post monkey stuff is just fantastic yeah he was the cool monkey he was the cool monkey and uh he the cool monkey. And his book is really, actually really good

because he did a lot of stuff after the fact. He basically sort of helped invent MTV, not specifically, but the idea of it. And yeah, he's a fascinating dude. So you're pretending you're a monkey. I'm pretending I'm a monkey at the age of six. And also, my other favorite band at that point was the Banana Splits. I don't know if you know them.

I've heard references to them, but it's a cartoon band. Is that a cartoon? No, they're furries. They're original furries. They had costumes and there was four of them and they sang songs and I don't think any of them played on any of the records, but

those two things were very key for me. And did you, like, musical instrument-wise, like, is it, like, you wanted to be a, like, is it drumming? What was your first? Yeah, drumming was actually my first, probably, I think, around eight. And then I moved over to guitar. The reason I moved over to guitar, actually, was because Rob Taylor, who him and myself started Change of Heart, I was really young at the time, and we looked for members forever,

and we just could not find a guitar player, so I switched over to guitar. Well, necessity is the mother of invention yeah and then we tried out a bunch of singers and we couldn't find a singer and um i ended up singing yeah so you mentioned okay so change of heart like we're going to spend quite a bit of time here in the the early part of our discussion here on change of heart so how far back does change of heart go exactly uh we started in 82 um we went through we didn't really have a lineup until i think i mean i saw we had

lineups but sorry a solid lineup until probably around 84 85 like when mike armstrong who was the percussionist and ron duffy who's the drummer, joined. I think the band really solidified there. And no offense to Steve or any of the previous drummers. But we sort of became a band and we started having the gang mentality, which is key to being young and being in a band. All right, your job now, because you were there. It's key.

When I have somebody who was there, I wasn't there, man. I'm a bit younger than you and not nearly as cool as you. I'm such a dork. Is that right? Oh, yeah. Well, dorks are smart.

Oh, yeah. So I wish I was more dorky, to be quite honest with you. I'm not saying I'm smart. I'm not, just for the record. Maybe dorks aren't smart. I think it's nerds that are smart. Oh I'm not saying I'm smart. I'm not just for the record. Maybe dorks aren't smart. I think it's nerds that are smart. Oh, yeah, nerds are smart.

Nerds are smart. Dorks are just dorky. Dorks are just dorks. Okay. So paint the scene for me, man. I always hear about the club circuit. And you mentioned 82. That's going way back here, actually.

But where would change of heart in those early days, where would change of heart way back here, actually. But, like, where would Change of Heart, in those early days, where would Change of Heart play? Oh, God, like, well, we play, you know, early show, 100 Bond Street, which was, you know, right behind the Imperial there, the Imperial Pub. We played the Turning Point at Avenue Road in Bloor, like, God, I don't know how many times. The Beverly Tavern was the other one

across from uh where Much Music used or sorry Much Music is um is there a Much Music I don't even know actually that's kind of why I hesitated because I don't really headquarters yeah yeah sorry Bell Media Headquarters 299 Queen West um and actually the Bev sort of closed down because they moved in um they thought they were going to be able to make it more upscale, lunchy type place. And that was actually the first place I ever played a live show. And I had to bring a note. I was so young that I had to go. You were under 19 then?

Yes, I was 16 actually when I first started playing. And I will interrupt you because I'm a very rude host. Very rude host. But Rob Proust, I just want to shout him out because he'll be at TMLX. We have an event on September 1st, not far from here, actually, at Great Lakes Brewery. It's going to be the 10th Toronto Mic Listener Experience.

And Rob's coming in. He lives in New York now, but Rob, I just think of Rob when you talk about the note because Rob needed a note to play of spoons. Right. Because he was only 15. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. I always think, oh, these guys are really young in these bands.

Yeah, it was kind of foolish. You know, maybe I shouldn't have been there quite that young. But you got the note, so. I got the note, yep. Okay. And I'm guessing Cabana Room? Cabana Room, yeah, a couple of times. God, I hated the worst load-in of all time for those.

I think it was the third floor, was it, or the second floor? But up the back, oh, my God, just horrible. And what about The Bamboo? Yeah, played The Bamboo. There was a Garage Psych Fest in 83 we played there. Yeah, like we've changed parts sort of how we were lucky that we we basically ended up playing everywhere that we could possibly you know want to play like including maple leaf gardens and massey hall in the concert hall and you know just being able to

check those off like as especially for me playing the concert hall it was like oh my god i've seen so many shows here to be able to play here it's just fantastic you know so before we get too far away from these early days uh the origin of the name change of heart i need the definitive answer from you ian blurton uh okay what was i think it was a mickey rooney film and it was subtitled Change of Heart and we needed a name because we had a show. Okay. Classic, you know, book the show before you have the name kind of thing.

And so we just went like, there, there's the name. Was it, I always envision it, and a lot of times it's exactly this, like, okay, this will be our name and then we'll find something better and change it. Yes. No, you never change it. No, you never change it.

And then 15 years later, were like oh god we actually did try to change the name while we were the band a couple of times and uh it just never don't do it uh martha and the muffins were here last month uh in the basement studio and uh they did that like they changed it to m&m yeah then they ended up changing it back and it turned out Mark just didn't want to be a muffin anymore. Like he was just, Mark was tired of being a muffin. What is wrong with muffins? I like muffins, man. No, I don't know, but he went back to it.

But you don't, you don't establish a band with a name and then change the name. No, no, no. You can change your lead singer, but changing your name is like. Although it worked for Rainbow Butt Monkeys. That was probably for the best. was the last time it was successful i think it was for rainbow butt monkeys okay so now since you've been shouting out some of the the clubs you'd play in uh the early days in toronto because you know toronto constantly changing but now even i like when i think about all the trips me and my buddies would

do to go downtown you know jumping on the subway and going to young and dundas and walking the strip or whatever like it's so different today when i'm down there but what can you tell me about the bands like can you shout out the toronto bands that were on the scene back then oh sure like like we're in detail in i'm obsessed with the detail okay we were like uh we were in this weird moment too where punk rock was sort of dying um and a lot of the you know vile tones demics diodes those types of bands were like you know on not on the way out but you know definitely slowing down or you know diodes moved to england um and so uh it was just a lot of the post-punk kind of stuff was really happening. And, uh, you know, rent boys, I went to school with one of the rent boys.

So I was, I had, you know, um, connection there. I should also, you know, you know, my sister, both my older sisters, um, the middle one was part of the punk rock community. So I did meet a lot of those, like the punk rock people at that time so it was that was very exciting for me um but you know kinetic ideals breeding ground uh vital signs who's glenn milchum who i've played with he was the drummer in that band who i've played with for god i don't know how long 35 years or something like that um uh that's how i met him and um you know there was also like the hardcore thing was starting up and we always had a strong affinity with a band called no mind um who are sort of like uh for lack of a better way of putting it

sort of blue cheer meets black flag okay like a lot of 60s psych influences but like hardcore and um that was like sort of the band that we always worship because they were kind of like a blend of two different things that you might not normally hear together and we were like that i we were always intrigued by the bands that were a little bit weird on the outside you know dave howard singers is another one which you know sort of our version of suicide the you know just keyboards drum machine and vocal amazing it was one guy dave howard and oddly i went to camp called camp beausoleil um in the 80s and it turned out that dave was the counselor there so you know just uh meeting up people later on it was always interesting um what other bands

were really okay while you think on that though you drop you talked about the toronto hardcore scene kind of back then so now i need to uh cross market i just need to let people know not too long ago so this is episode 1088 episode 1051 al nolan brian muliffe, and Sean Sherry came by. Oh, that sounds like a bunch of trouble right there. I'm looking at the picture now. Al's got his Palma Pasta lasagna. Dude, do you eat lasagna? I love lasagna.

You're leaving here. I'm not kidding. I feel like I'm Monty Hall again. Yeah, it's in the freezer because I didn't know. Everybody, yeah, Ian just lifted the empty box from Palma Pasta. But that will be full when you leave today. You're going home just like Al loved his too. But yeah, we just covered, we went deep into like the history of the,

I'm going to read what I wrote then and then we'll get back to it. But Mike chats with Al Nolan, front man for the almighty Trigger Happy, Brian McAuliffe, drummer for Youth, Youth, Youth, and Sean Sherry, author of Tomorrow is Too Late, about Toronto punk. So we did an hour and 41 minutes on the Toronto punk scene. So if people are digging that, this chat, they can go back afterwards and check out episode,

uh, 10 51. No drop more names, man. Um, ah, no more names. Come on.

No, no, I have lots of, it was just like, for us, it was an interesting cause cause of the type of band we were. Cause we, we would like draw influences from everywhere. Yeah.

We were able to draw influences from a lot of different places in Toronto at that time, because there was the amount of bands was just, you know, crazy. And the quality was really high. Did you notice the sky changing? Yeah, the sky just went black. So, okay, so I'll give real time, you know, play by play here. But when Ian sat down,

it was a beautiful day. And now that forecast looks like it might be accurate. So I am ready. It's the gear I worry about. So I will take some action should it happen, but we'll hopefully we'll be okay. We'll be okay. Okay.

I brought the clouds with me. Where's Harold Hussain when I need him? He should have, you told me to bring an umbrella and Ian, I didn't listen. So, okay. Sorry.

You were, you were so, um, yeah, just like there was a million amazing bands at that time. You know, APB too. I really liked,

which is, you know, and all these bands that went, went on to, you know, like the no mind, you know, the drummer ended up in the dough boys and stuff.

So it's like these people all continued their careers. I'm trying to think of another band that I loved from that time period, but drawing a blank. That's okay. Okay, now I have a comment that came in from FOTM Cam Gordon. By the way, Ian, you're now in FOTM. That's Friend of Toronto Mic'd. I think it's bigger.

To me, it's bigger. I just had on Al Mayer from Attic Records and he just got the Order of Canada but being an FOTM is a much more prestigious honor oh yeah 100% 100% so okay so Cam writes

I think baby change of heart appeared on video hits of Samantha Taylor if that happened can you ask how also can you ask if they ever played on breakfast television? Feels like I might be totally imagining both of these appearances. Uh, video hits. Was that John Major? No, that was, that was Toronto Rocks.

Okay. We were on Toronto Rocks with John Major. Okay. Um, the only reason I know that is because Carson, who used to book the Rivoli, had a, took Polaroids of while we were on it. So he gave me this stack of Polaroids years later. Amazing.

Um, cause John's no longer with us. Uh, he died pretty young of cancer, like in his fifties. He did? Yeah. Oh, geez. I know. I'm here to bear on that note. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

But so, so, so did Cam have like a fever dream? No, we were on breakfast television though. And it's, Bernard didn't bring his keyboard stand and he's like, keyboards are on a stool. And I had bought these really goofy sunglasses at a garage sale the day before and I'm wearing them. And we did, you know, they were like, you have to play your mellowest song.

So we played our mellowest you know, they were like, you have to play your mellowest song. So we played our mellowest song. And then they were like, okay, well, give us one song, you know, to lead us out. And we played our, pretty much our heaviest song at that point. And it was like a quick fade. Now, that's funny. They're like, this is too heavy for breakfast television.

Too early for that. What is that first song you played? On breakfast television? Yeah, yeah. That's Decline. Okay, okay. Okay, so throughout this conversation, if you don't mind, I'm going to play a few jams.

Yeah, that's totally great. So here, okay. It'll shock you to know I'm starting with this one. So let's listen for a little bit, and then I'll bring her down and talk to you. Here we go, standing alone. Do you find There's no one home

If I could tell you If I could find I would know all the reasons why I'd reach out to kiss But I'd bridge your breasts Your jealous thought You think I'd drop a mask over you That you could be anyone of a crowd Truth is I put a crown much more than

Roots over your head She says I want to be the wind and draw the day from your hair There you go Standing alone Do you find there's no one home

And if I could tell you If I could find There you go. It's starting to rain. But you're okay. It's fine. Okay. We'll keep our eye on this developing story.

It is now raining in the TMDS Backyard studio and Ian's fine, so I'm fine. I'll just make sure that the gear stays fine. But this jam, this is like, I don't know, it's tough to talk. We have a band like Change of Heart. You'd only talk about hits or whatever right but this was the big hit right it was actually a hit in saskatoon there was uh like just one program director was like you know what i like this song well it's a great fucking song yeah so whoever that guy is he's got good taste yeah i've

been revisiting your stuff for the last couple of weeks, and it really takes me back, and it's a lot of great stuff. We're going to play a few more Change Up Hard stuff before we get to some solo stuff or whatever. So, like, in Canada, can we call this a top 40 hit? I think it was top 40 in Saskatoon. It was not top 40 in Canada, though. Okay, well, you've got to spin it a bit. You need your marketing department to spin that a bit.

But, uh, what can you tell me, uh, if you don't mind, what can you tell me about there you go? Like the writing. Well,

every time I hear that song, cause, uh, cause I, I don't know if you know, but that record is live, um, off the floor in the studio and no overdubs.

And I accidentally, uh, I sang breast instead of breath. And we were like, ah, the take is good. And so we just left it. So every time I hear breast, I'm like. You cringe? No, it makes me laugh.

Yeah, I don't cringe. No cringing. No regrets. Okay. So who produced, this is from Smile, right? Yes. So who produced Smile? Michael Philip Ojiwoda.

Now, you don't think he was spreading himself awfully thin? I mean, this guy's touching all these big CanCon albums. He was producing Gordon for Barenaked Ladies and Whale Music for Real Statics. Yes, at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. But all great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, like the one thing, our record did take four days. It was like we literally loaded in on the whatever it was, the Monday. Four days. Four days. So what was your budget for this album? Three grand.

Get out of here. Yeah, three grand. I'm charging you more for this appearance on Toronto White. Yeah, the label was like, okay, here you go. Here's three grand. Wow. And we're like, well, how the hell are we going to make a record for three grand? And I think Mike, I'm pretty sure it was michael's idea was like just do it live

um and so it's cool anyways like and you know it's like again necessity mother of invention yes yeah and also you know like to us at that time like kusker do and minute men were like you know the the stuff you know oh This is exciting. The wind has picked up. I like the play-by-play. Wind has picked up. The tarp, hopefully it doesn't blow away, but it's offering a little protection.

So long as Ian's into this, I'm into it. It's exciting, right? I'm fine, yeah. You have these boring interviews. They give you five to seven minutes, and it's like yawn. But here we are. It's actively raining uh the

wind's picking up we don't know what comes next and we're gonna be here for the long ride here the long haul as long as there's no tornado well okay hopefully not because uh i can't afford to replace this gear so that that budget you have there i wish i had that big four thousand dollar budget you have there so okay lots of questions about Change of Heart, and then I'll play a few more Change of Heart stories. But meanwhile, aren't you like, you sort of, you yourself, you mentioned Michael Phillip, their multitasking with Barenaked Ladies, Gordon,

and Real Statics Whale Music. And then, is this, like, when do you drum for the Cowboy Junkies? Oh, that's way, way before that. Way before. Yeah, yeah, it was very, very brief. And I don't know who put that on my wikipedia yeah it's on wiki so i have to ask about it it's like i know all right so that's really early okay well another fotm who's been over and he played live in my basement uh john bora love that guy uh-huh so i mean he's gonna come back because we talked about

change of heart with him of course but uh you were in a neon rome with him yes so when abouts is that that is uh 84 85 somewhere in there okay yeah that was really intense um in a good way sometimes uh i actually quit the band on stage the night the singer threw glasses into the audience and one of the glasses smashed and went around somebody's eye. Oh my God. Yeah. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Exactly.

But like the very, very first show I ever played with them, I don't even think, maybe we rehearsed once or something. Like it was a very open-ended song structure, to say the least. once or something like it was a very open-ended song structured say the least and uh neil the singer had a lamp like a regular side you know lamp like an old lamp that he was swinging over his head and that was the only light on the stage and he smashed it and he sort of dove into the broken remains and as he got up there was like yeah totally hip-hop style as he got up there was a piece of it in his arm oh my god and it went all the way down his arm and he just kind of squeezed his arm and looking at me

and all this blood came out and i was like wow this is going to be intense wow okay so uh you had to get out of there you had to get the the fuck out of dodge well no actually i was there for quite a while and then that that was the throwing the glass throwing the glass like self self is one thing but when you're attacking other people, like, I don't know. Okay, before I get to more change of heart with more change of heart questions, I'm going to play this off YouTube. So hold on, I'm playing this.

Hold on here. All right. Play by play. Looks like a man's eating a bowl of soup. Oh. That's in the music. That's not actually in the sky. I think we're going to Mexico, aren't we?

Where are we going? Hold on. Because I've got to find out. I didn't even know about this jam, and then I just found it on YouTube here. And is it a long intro? I guess we could wait it out here. We've got nothing better to do. So there's like a father and a family at a table eating soup.

Oh, Jolly Tambourine Man. Yeah. Oh, okay. Sorry, I'm like soup. Okay. So, okay. I'm just getting... Boy, they really like that jet sound in this video.

Your sister doesn't like apple strudel. The sister got up because she doesn't like apple strudel. The sister got up because she doesn't like Apple Strudel. Yeah, there's some 80s drums. That's all Phil Collins' fault, isn't it? The 80s drums? Okay, so this is ripped from Much Music. It's called Apple Strudel

Man by Jolly Tambourine Man. So what is this? That's actually the first record that I was ever on. Wow. You drum on this. I drum on it. I play a little guitar.

You know, I miss when Much Music played videos. Like, here I am, I'm watching Much Music again. Like, I used to spend so many hours watching Much Music videos, and you never knew what was coming up. Right. Look, this thing got, this is regular rotation.

Jolly Tambourine Man. So just how did that end up being before we get you back to Change of Heart? I, how did it end up being in rotation?

Yeah, like how did, like you just, they just needed. It was just that weird time when they needed stuff and it just, it actually ended up

getting played quite a bit. Okay. Here we go. They spelled Apple Strudel Man wrong on much music. You have to see this, man. It's like... Yeah, that's not how you spell strudel, but okay.

So according to this commenter here, Jolly Tambourine Man was the first MuchMusic underground Canadian content superstars. Anyway, take that for what it's worth. So this is the first real song you ever appeared on? Yeah, first vinyl release, sorry. Gotcha. Change of Heart had put out a couple of cassettes by that point. All right, there, I wanted to address that while I have you here.

And that has Mike Armstrong from Change of Heart is playing percussion on that. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so back to... And that goes to Seed School, like, because we all went to a school called Seed,

a bunch of us at any rate. So, Steve Rhodes, who's the singer there, and Mike and I. Amazing. Amazing. I'm going to ask you about t-shirts now.

Okay. So, first I'm going to ask you about a t-shirt you wore, because I find this interesting. I think it was a Kumbaya. Oh, no. Okay. First of all, K kumbaya that's a molly johnson uh initiative oh yeah yeah shout out to molly johnson shout out to molly johnson for doing the work yeah i mean um i've had uh the uh the you know jake gold coming over talking about you know the calls

he was getting from molly yeah she was large and in charge for that that important event there but you're a part of uh kumbaya yes i think we did it twice okay and you took the stage once at kumbaya with a t-shirt that read bare naked ladies suck yes okay was that a ironic t-shirt or well uh okay first of all you should explain that we were playing with Barenaked Ladies. It was both bands together doing a Max Webster cover. And on the back of that shirt, it says, so do we. Okay. Yeah. See, context is everything. Yeah.

And it was just a homemade shirt. And I thought it was, you know, funny. People took it the wrong way, unfortunately. It was like in fun. No, I mean, clearly, clearly. I mean, all we need to know is that in the video for brian wilson which might be the greatest song stephen page ever wrote fotm stephen page he's wearing a uh he's wearing a change uh change of heart t-shirt yes that was

our manager's uh uh promo idea getting people to wear shirts. Do you remember all the, because I have a short list, but do you remember all the CanCon video stars who don Change of Heart t-shirts? Well, there's Andrew from Sloan. And that's for Underwhelmed. Underwhelmed. Mr. Page there. And those are such massive 90s CanCon jams,

like Underwhelmed and Brian Wilson. Glenn wore one in a Blue Rodeo video. Rain Down on Me. Hey! I didn't even know what I was saying there. It's perfect timing. Rain Down on Me. I think that's it.

Okay, but that's pretty damn cool. That's pretty damn cool. That's the kind of stuff that's like, wow, thank you so much for doing that. You didn't have to do that. And actually, I don't think Andrew was part of what I'm talking about with Don there. I think he just did that on his own.

And am I remembering correctly, you're in... Is it Even Grable? Are you in the video for Treble Chargers' Even Grable? Or am I misremembering that? You're trying to think. Maybe it's not you guys I don't think so maybe I feel like I thought you might be in

there and maybe maybe Hayden or maybe I'm conflating a whole bunch of stuff it's all a blur to me blurred it's all a blur to me blurting blurting so here I'm gonna play

another change of heart song because then I'm gonna run in I'm gonna I'm just gonna grab a umbrella from Ridley funeral home they actually gave me an umbrella just so I can if it does pour because it could happen anymore I'm just gonna hold it here to protect the going to grab a umbrella from Ridley Funeral Home. They actually gave me an umbrella.

If it does pour, because it could happen any moment, I'm just going to hold it here to protect the laptop. So here's a bit of Change of Heart. I'll be right back. We'll see you to the end Don't be discarded Who is chosen when they really are your friends? Pull the trigger, pull the trigger Find the bullet, feed the gun Hit the target, get it started Love is more than number one Sensory perception Mass logic broken line

Smoke and light show Triangle of misfits Rhesus genocide lost tribe Clean cut and fly Just hold on tight Without really explaining why When I guess the truth It's hard to tell For your story based on lies I love this song. It's bringing back good memories, actually.

Okay, share that with us all. What are you thinking of when you're listening to Trigger? Well, I'm specifically thinking of Joe Barisi, who's one of my production heroes, producer heroes. Mixed that and just having an incredible time. We mixed it at Le Studio in Mourne Heights, which was where Rush and April Wine recorded a lot. You know, Keith Richards and just, you know, a whole bunch of people.

Just a bunch of bums like that. Just a bunch of bums like that. And just sitting there in the control room watching Joe work his magic. And, yeah, I'd never worked with an American mixer before, and so it was just interesting to see how the difference was, what the difference was. Okay, and that's, I mean, I'm listening in the headphones here, and I just want to, just fucking want to move, man,

if it sounds... Let's break stuff. Yeah, shout out to, I was going to say, shout out to Fred Durst. No. No, no shout out to Fred Dur's there uh okay you you opened for the tragically hip which tour was that oh gosh uh we actually i think three tours we did we did a roadside attraction okay we did uh day for night all the way across canada with the odds

or odds sorry and uh we also did a whole American tour with them, which was, uh, still one of my favorite tours of all time. And you play smaller, uh, like club shows down in the state? Yeah, we're theaters. Um, yeah, that was, I just, I've probably said this before, but I should say this again. You know, there's that whole thing about how the hip, you know, was never really broke in the U.S. And those shows that we played with them, they were like ramped. And they were like, you know, thousand seater.

And I don't even know a lot of like bigger indie bands at that point that were doing that many numbers, you know? So it's like, I always felt that that was like weird that people would be like, well, they never broke in the States. And then you'd play a show with them and there'd be like 800 rabid or a thousand rabid people. I mean, we played a show with them at trees in Dallas. That was insane. I mean, it was crazy. There was a pregnant woman

laying on the front of the stage. There was a guy in a wheelchair in the pit. Like it was just like, wow. I think it was just comparing them to here, which is really an unfair comparison. Yeah. They could sell out, what's it called today? They could sell out the Scotiabank Arena, you know, five nights in a row if they wanted to. So, you know, they aren't going to sell out the equivalent, you know, maybe in Buffalo, actually. Yeah, maybe Buffalo.

Buffalo. Buffalo, man, they listen to a lot of CFNYs. Oh, yeah. A lot of these guys, I mean, I'm big good friends of the guys from Lois at the Low, for example. And they can go to Buffalo and they're huge because of the 102.1 signal. Yeah, it's bizarre.

What was your relationship? What was Change of Hearts? Again, so, and then I'll come back to the hip, actually, but what was Change of Hearts relationship like with radio? Like, who would play you guys? Oh, we did pretty good with radio. We had, you know, our pocket of supporters.

We did one really foolish thing, though, where we, on the Roadside Attraction tour, the song It Should Be had just come out as a single and we weren't playing it. And that was like, I still feel like that was a massive. Self-destructive behavior. Holy shit. Sorry, can I swear?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what a terrible idea. What a terrible idea. Okay, now I've had, okay, I just mentioned Lois of the Low and I've had, you know, Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols over here a bunch of times. Wonderful people. And it really does sound like that's a band that suppressed their fame. Like they did all the things to like almost like not be big.

Like from not doing videos. Like try to picture it. Like all these big jams we heard on 102.1 from Lowest to the Low. Like they should have been, you know, much music stars. But there's like, they just would do a whole whack of stuff. Like almost like that punk mentality to like not be too famous and not get too big right right like self-inflicted i think we had that same problem i think it's called self-sabotage is right this is actually what it's called self-sabotage so what was so is there's a sense of change of heart because uh

critical darlings and musicians musicians but you, never as big as like a blue rodeo or whatever. Oh, God, no. No, I know. Not even close. Right. So like it was, it was a lot of that self-sabotage. Like, and is that simply because that's the punk thing to do?

Some of it was that, I mean, we worked, we were, you know, when we worked, we worked really hard. We played a lot of shows. We went back and forth across Canada. I don't know how many times. So we did that part. Our relationship with maybe with the industry wasn't as good as it should have been.

It took us a long time to get signed, for example. Well, tell me that story. Because maybe, yeah, tell me that story. Because, I mean, eventually I'm going to ask you about the CFNYfny discovery to disc competition but yeah like like like what did it take to get change of heart signed well we had we had there was a guy randy boyd who uh god i can't even it might have been psych industries he was working at at the time but he bought um a whole whack of copies of our very first record 50 50 Feet Up. He loved the record.

And he sent it around to people, unprovoked to send it around to people and tried to help us as much as he could. And then when he was working at Cargo, he signed us. And we had been on Fringe before, and that was a little weird because almost all, know i mean our label mates at that point were like you know corrosion of conformity black flag dead kennedys um you know basically every hardcore band um um and we're obviously not a hardcore band at all so that was a little weird and uh then r signed us to Cargo, and they're a wonderful label.

They really tried to do a lot for us. I guess they released our first record ever outside of Canada, which was really nice. But then the budget thing, $3,000 came up, and we just realized that we needed something else, so we started looking for a label and initially we were very hesitant actually to do the things that lawyers and people were saying we should be doing and like I don't know we had we had had a really excellent manager very early on who

drilled a lot of things into our heads that were now in retrospect are like, wow, these are really great ideas. And I think maybe we just took some of them a little too far, you know, I guess. Do you want to elaborate on that? Well, just being, you know, just being off, not being super friendly, you know, towards the industry, I guess, is probably where we took it too far. And doing things like not playing a single is just, you know towards the industry i guess is uh probably where we took it too far and doing things like not playing a single is just you know like self-sabotage yeah self-sabotage spending you know that kind of money on a video and being on this tour and then not playing the song and you

know so why didn't you play the song just like oh well we were we were a democracy and we would vote on everything and if you lost the vote then then that's, you know, the way it goes. The manager probably should have, at that point, probably should have been like, what in the hell? Guys, give your heads a shake. You got to play the new single. What are you doing? Interesting.

But no, we could play this weird song in 7-8 in front of 30,000 people who want to hear the hip. It's funny. Every once in a while you hear about a heritage band that's going out touring and they're not playing the big hit. And I always think like, okay, these guys aren't, you know, whether you know it or not, they're not actually buying the ticket to hear the new stuff.

Like they're actually looking for the, you know, the nostalgia. Right, right. And like why would you be, why would you even be a heritage band and go out and not play the hit? Like, can you imagine the promoter? He's like, or she is like,

I just paid you 20 grand and you don't play, you know, whatever. You're not going to play the song, play the song. Yeah, play the song.

And then there, you often hear stories, not too many of modern bands, but old, older bands where like, they have the one big song and they play it twice. You ever heard these stories?

I actually saw big country at Massey hall on my birthday. I, Oh my God. What year is it? I'm going to say 84. They did in a big country three times. They opened with it. They closed with it.

And then it was the encore. And I bet you that was a happy audience. Like that's sort of. It was actually. It was. But it's like maybe learn a cover. If you don't have the material. Three times.

Three times. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's like Neil Young does that too, right? I think that's more of a. Neil's got the. An FU or something.

Neil's good at that. I was once. I once paid to see Neil Young. And he. For like a 10 minute jam song. He like turned his back to the audience. And it was like. Okay. Neil's good at that. I once paid to see Neil Young and for a 10-minute jam song, he turned his back to the audience. It was like, okay, Neil's going to kneel, which is fine.

I got punched in the throat in a Neil Young show once for being a punk. Oh, for being a punk? Yeah. They didn't like how you were dressed? Yeah, and the guy just like, yeah, I was walking through the audience and he just, bam, right in the throat oh my god yeah and you know you picked a tough uh tough business ian

like you know it's not for the faint of heart it's not oh that could be the name of change of heart you could be faint of heart hail write that down okay all right so when you were touring with the hip just to come back to the tragically hip Hip, were they good to you? I hear they're pretty good to your supporting band. They were awful. They were so bad to us. Oh, my God. You're being facetious. They're wonderful.

Wonderful, wonderful. They've been so supportive, even post. Yeah, just really great. Really great. They put us on a lot of good shows. You know, I had one major freak out once when we got hipped in uh seattle which is uh i don't know if anyone's ever been to a hip show but like when the audience starts just chanting hip yeah yes you're in deep deep trouble and uh i've only

actually ever seen it to happen to bands that are on directly before right and we were on directly before them in seattle and oh boy that's an ignorant move man because i've been at it by the way there's some beautiful birds right now i think that's a woodpecker there but uh some beautiful nature here in uh beautiful woodpecker yeah yeah okay hello buddy you know i had a fox back here yesterday really yeah you hopped the fence and went that way. I never saw foxes until the last few years, and now I'm seeing foxes all over the place. I don't know if there's been a big... During the pandemic,

the foxes came back to life or something. I don't know. There's one in our neighborhood, too. I saw him in the middle of winter last winter. Yeah. I never used to see him. Okay. Where was I? Do you know where i was going man you're asking about the hip i think yeah something about the hip here let me uh that sucks that i

got so distracted by woodpecker it'll come back to me i can just say how wonderful they were and you know they they're you know oh being hip yeah the ignorance of an audience yeah oh yeah i just remember okay because like i've been at a bunch of once i was at a bunch of show where people want the headliner and they start doing stuff. And then, do they think... It's a thought process of the masses who are probably inebriated at that time in their defense.

And not that that's a defense. But the audience thinks that, oh, if the opening band, if they rap early, the headliner will come on early. Is that the idea? Like, oh, the headliner's coming on a half an that the idea like oh the headliner's coming on a half an hour after this band finishes so throw bottles at this band i saw it i was at an edge

fest once where they i think was nickelback believe it or not was the headliner in the crowd was so eager to get nickelback they basically chased off cake and the nickelback audience isn't going to appreciate cake to be honest that was a bad night but i don't think so they threw the bottles at cake and then cake really early in the set just said, peaced out because it was dangerous. Nickelback's still coming on at 11. It just means there's a longer

wait. Don't be ignorant. I saw Cereal Joe get absolutely smoked with a whole bunch of stuff once. I think it was pretty sure it was an Edgefest course. I was there. Or a Somersault, maybe. It was a Somersault. Okay, well, that was a mistake. See,

that's the big hit by Serial Joe. Oh, man. You know who managed Serial Joe? Yes, the mom. But then after that. Oh, no. Kim Clark Champness from Much Music. Really? Yeah. In fact, Kim was with them when they played Woodstock 99,

which you might have seen a few documentaries about Woodstock 99. There's another one coming. But they had a documentary, I think it was Netflix, on Woodstock 99 that was in production, and they were calling it Clusterfuck, but they would put a couple of dots or asterisks instead of UC, and it was a cluster. But you knew it was Clusterfuck and

I think they decided to change the name to Trainwreck but I think that's a mistake. Yeah, because there's no trains involved. And it's like Clusterfuck's a good name. Yeah. Like we're in an era where even though they put the asterisks we can't call a Netflix thing about like a

rock and roll festival Clusterfuck. We have to change it to train wreck. Like to me, that's bizarre. Yeah, yeah. It's like the Christian right got a whole, we're not going to allow our children to watch a documentary called clusterfuck change it to train wreck. Okay.

Anyway, Blue Rodeo. So we've been talking a bit about Blue Rodeo, but you opened for them as well. Yes, we opened. God, I think, well these uh i think tragically hip and blue rodeo are the two bands i've seen the most in my life like by far um and blue rodeo are always amazing as well and gracious and uh i have some spectacular memories of uh of that tour or a couple of tours that we did with them. They took us through Northern Ontario once

on the way to Thunder Bay, like Highway 11, like South Porcupine, and like all these weird, the Capus Gazing and stuff. And those shows were really cool because, you know, the type of band that we were, you know, you wouldn't get that opportunity normally. So it was like we got to go and play

to some weird, weird places. It was great. Steve Waxman, who used to be with Warner Music, has promised to deliver Jim Cuddy to the Toronto Mic Studio here, so he's working on that. So there's my little Blue Rodeo promotion, a little teaser here.

All right, I'm going to play another Change of Heart song, and then I want to ask you about Discovery to Disc because I was a big fan of these Discovery to Disc CDs. And let's play this. lying in wait like a tiger in the tall grass hungry for bait it's just a chain and we are food

a case of eat your enemies before they eat you here's Food for thought For stomach and mind Develop a taste For blood or run To be left behind I know

When you say Nothing ever goes my way That to you It's a game Little Kingdoms. Sounds good in your headphones? Yeah, it does. Change of Heart's a good band. You should check them out, man.

I've never actually seen them. That's weird. That's true. It's true it's true okay so actually a little housekeeping here so uh rob taylor and you are like the founders of change of heart would that be fair to say so why does rob leave the band because rob leaves before the 97 breakup right yes he left after uh smile or sort of in the smile touring cycle. So what, he just wanted to do something else? Yeah. What happened there?

He went to... That's the real talk there, Ian. The real talk. I think he was just, I mean, you'd have to ask him for sure. But, you know, that was another thing about Change of Heart is like not speaking our minds. What back then was always, you know, being younger and stupider. Right. I probably should have asked him more. But more but you know i think the burnout factor was there and you know we

weren't we weren't really making that any money or anything like that you know and living living hand to mouth and well we should that's a good point like sometimes i think people are like surprised when they find out on Toronto Mike that, that, that the band with the albums that they were spinning all the time and enjoying on whatever much music or CF and Y or whatever, like that, they're not like driving around in like a Mercedes Benz or whatever.

Like it's, uh, it's, it's, it's tough. Like, is it tough? And I know the answer,

but I want to know what you think. Like, is it tough for a band like Change of Heart to just be musicians and to make a living off their music? Is that even possible? It was sort of. Actually, by the end, we were on a living wage. Okay.

But that was the old Toronto. That was the old Toronto, actually. No, that's a very, very good point. And I don't I don't think you could do that anymore but yeah we were on a uh you know we had our rent covered every month and some extra cash and got our you know per diems and stuff but uh it took a long long time and uh you know we had like a lot of setbacks there was like the first album uh we sent a whole bunch to be distributed in the states

and the the company went out of business so we lost all that money uh we cracked an engine block on tour in 90 in california um which was you know uh just a nightmare trying to get it fixed because the emissions you know you had to get a proper couldn't just throw something in there and roll out let's put it that way right um so we had like a lot of things like that happen where we uh you know had to end up coming home to work to pay off the debts of touring you know well this country is difficult to tour just geographically speaking oh my my God. I've seen Hardcore Logo, okay? Yeah. It's really wide. And you know, it's funny. It's like our first tour,

we were out for nine weeks. And you know, back then it was like, you'd do three nights in a lot of places, which is really good as a band because you get to play tons, you know, like three, I'm sorry, I'm talking like three sets or whatever,

two sets for three nights. Okay. And then that changed. And once you get to one night in Canada, it's a little bit harder. Getting from, you know, Edmonton to Saskatoon to Winnipeg to Thunder Bay to Sudbury or Sault Ste. Marie to Toronto is like, whoa.

Yeah, and usually you're like, not only do you not make money on these tours, but you're trying to like lose less. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that was definitely. And you know the whole idea of like, well, you should really budget your tour. It's like, well, sure, you can budget a tour, but like does it really matter in the long run? Because it's not going to be what you write down on paper.

Right, you need to get like a bicycle trailer, throw all really matter in the long run? Because it's not going to be what you write down on paper. Right, you need to get, like, a bicycle trailer, throw all the gear in there, and, yeah. We actually toured in a Volvo. Our first tour was in a four-seater Volvo with a U-Haul. And it was crazy when looking back on it, but, I mean, nowhere to lay down. But it was so fun. But when you're young, you'll do a lot of... And we camped on that tour.

We camped. That's so Canadian. Ron James just was coming back from a tour. He was just here. That's why he's fresh of mind here, comedian Ron James. He was like, yeah, he drove from the west coast, he would camp along the way, and I was thinking, that's the Canadian tour right there,

camping on your way. Oh my god. I have this incredibly vivid memory of, we played in Winnipeg for three nights. It was our first out of Ontario show. We played in Winnipeg for three nights and the sound man, not that I do this anymore, but he gave us acid at the end of the four nights. And we drove to Diefenbaker Lake the next day and camped

and we dropped acid in there. And just like the four of us as these kids sitting in the, under the stars. For me, like sitting under the stars like that for the first time, tripping on acid was pretty amazing. Wow. Okay. Do you, do you smoke weed? Yes, I do. Shout out to Canna Cabana.

Okay. Seriously, I have a, there's an ashtray for you on top of the... So you take that when you're enjoying a smoke. You got an ashtray from Canna Cabana. They won't be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. Over 100 locations across this country. Go to cannacabana.com. And since I've interrupted to shout out some sponsors, I just want to shout out Dewar Pants and Shorts,

the world's most comfortable pants and shorts. Also, the shirts are damn comfy too. You can go to dewar.ca, D-U-E-R.C-A, or go to the retail store on Queen Street West and use the promo code Toronto Mike. All one word and you save 15%. You'll look good. They're rugged.

They're comfy. The clothes is amazing. And it helps the show. So thank you for your support these last few months. Doer. And you mentioned Winnipeg right there. So you mentioned, since you said the word Winnipeg, that means I have to go to Sammy Cohn's question. Sammy, by the way.

Oh, you feel like the Sammy Cohn? The Sammy Cohn, my drummer for The Watchmen. Wow, and realtor. Yeah, well, apparently successful. I follow him on Twitter, and he's like, I was employee of the month last month. And I was thinking, because he did sponsor this program for one month. I'm thinking, well, apparently successful. I follow him on Twitter and he's like, I was employee of the month last month. And I was thinking, because he did sponsor this program for one month.

I'm thinking, Sammy, times are good. Time to come back, buddy. Yeah. He wants to know, like any good Winnipegger, this is the question, any good stories about recording the weaker thans? Now, okay, so he's specifically looking for stories about your time spent in Winnipeg.

I'm trying to go chronologically. So like I want to talk about this Discovery to Disc competition because I'm always curious about that. Yes. So because this is all like, I know Change of Heart breaks up in 97. So maybe, okay, so we'll put a pin. This is corporate speak.

Have you ever been in a boardroom? Okay, we'll put a pin in the Sammy Cone question. Do I look like I've been in a boardroom? Yeah, you know what? You'll never be allowed in a boardroom? Okay, we'll put a pin in the Sammy Cone question. Do I look like I've been in a boardroom? Yeah, you know what? You'll never be allowed in a boardroom, which is by design, right? Actually, you're like my hero because I have that in me. Sometimes I think,

let me do some shit just to fuck up my look so that people won't take... I can't be corporate. Not that you've got a fucked up look, but you've got a very cool look that tells me you work in rock and roll. I do work in rock and roll. Where else could you work?

The circus. Of course. Okay. I could be a carny. I was a carny at the CNE for three summers as a teenager. Wow, cool. Do you have a Conklin shirt? No, because I wasn't with Conklin.

I was with Astro Zodiac Enterprises. Shout out to Ardo Godaro. Sorry, is that post-Conklin? No, it was with Coincided. So Conklin doesn't have the monopoly. There are other gaming booth operators or whatever that coexist with Conklin. But there was a Carney Code one night

an inebriated boyfriend of this woman. She was a big Madonna fan during the Blonde Ambition tour. She wanted me to take her to a Blue Jay game because CFTR gave me two tickets to see the Blue Jays. And there was a pizza pizza party. This is the most Toronto story ever. But I took her because I was her boss. Actually, I was a game booth manager, but I took her and then her boyfriend found out I went to this Blue Jay game with her, which was completely platonic, I'll point out. And this boyfriend wanted to beat the shit out of me, and he was older, and he was late at night,

and he was drunk, and I actually was, you know, I'm not the biggest dude you've ever seen, as you see, so I actually went to the Conklin guys for help, and this one Conklin Kearney guy, he said, you're with Ardo's crew, right? And I said, yeah, and he took a pipe, and he started smacking it into his hand, and he yelled back

at the other Ke carnies and said, you up for a fight, boys? And all these carnies came out and I got the fuck out of Dodge. I don't know what happened, except this guy never bugged me again. I think they scared the shit out of this guy. Those dudes were like... There's a code, man. Yeah, there's a code.

Actually, it's not just dudes because actually I know. Oh, yeah, not just dudes. Not just dudes. I know, I know. It's just that dude is non-gendered in my opinion i i call a woman dudes all the time but okay so there's my quick carny story the cne's back this year um okay so we're gonna go in chronological order i have some points i need to hit uh before you get bored and leave okay so cfny has the discovery to disc competition okay tell me uh what what is, 90, what year is this?

I don't even know. You don't know? Okay. Let's see, 93. So, tell me, like, what, did you have a specific song that was entered, like, you win this Discovery to Disc. We actually, I think we got there half an hour before the contest

closed, and just, because somebody was like, you know, you guys should just just because we didn't have a deal at the time. And there's $100,000. Yeah, and there's $100,000. And somebody was like, yeah, you guys should just do that. And we were like, maybe that's not a bad idea. And so we remember who said that.

Fuck it. I don't want to say it's Bookman, but I think it might have been Bookman. It's just then, as you know, Bookie just, they just unveiled the plaque. I was actually interviewing Hal Johnson from Body Break, and I couldn't be there, but I had FOTM correspondents, Mark Wise, Blott, and Cam Gordon on the scene to report back.

But a lot of, I mean, I saw Lawrence Nichols was there, and a lot of good FOTMs on the scene, but Bedini, of course, and Michael Hollett, and John Borough was there. Right. We'll get to you in a minute. But okay, so... So we hand the thing in, like, literally a half an hour before the contest closes,

and I just don't remember, like, walking in and plunking the CD down. Wow. And then, yeah. Was that in Brampton? Where did you... No, I... Were they at Bathurst and Bloor yet?

I feel like it was at Bathurst and Bloor.? I feel like it was at Bathurst and Bloor. Okay, yeah, the edge of Bathurst and Bloor. Okay. Yeah. All right, and you beat, I mean, earlier I mentioned Treble Charger and then Killjoys too. Yeah, that was our big competition.

Yeah, Mike Treblecock. Yeah, those guys are great. I love them. There was a beef between the two bands for a while. Was there? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I need to hear about this. I don't really remember what it was.

I feel like it was maybe management or something. I don't know. Because people are drawn to a fight. It's like Oasis and Blur, right? It was good for everybody. It was hardly

anything as interesting as that. Although that was probably made up by the managers as well, right? No, I did hear one of them. I hope he gets AIDS and dies. Oh, yeah, that's a horrible quote. Oh, my God.

So I think that's not quite management, okay so uh you win and what does that enable you to do the uh the cfny discovery to disc win well they they they let us use the money in uh pretty much any way we wanted to so uh i think we each got five grand to get new gear um we spent part of it mixing remixing tummy suckle which had already been mixed and released right with that there's like a hand-stamped cover and uh yeah we went to moran heights that was with joe barisi that i was talking about and then we uh used the rest of the money and we invested in a studio called Chemical, which my friend Daryl Smith was running.

And sort of not co-owners, but co-conspirators with Daryl. And that sort of led to my present career, I guess. Which we're going to get to, and then when we get back to Sammy's question here. But John Borough, we mentioned a few times, but he replaces... Oh, sorry, yes. He replaces...

Rob Taylor, right? Rob Taylor, yeah. And that's before this victory in the CFNY. Yes, this is part of the victory, yes. So we're getting the right timelines here. Okay, so why does Change of Heart... Actually, yeah, yeah, let's do that now. Why does Change of Heart break up in 1997?

I was... I can only speak for myself, but I was so burnt out. Just... I felt like it had run its course. And nothing against anybody who was in the band, but I just felt like, honestly, like because Rob and I had started the band, and like let me just really say this,

it's nothing against anyone who was later in the band, but Rob and I, I felt like without Rob, there was like an element missing. Because I mean, a lot of people don't know this, but like, you know, he took care of of people don't know this but like you know he took care of the art he wrote almost all you know 70 of the lyrics let's say 75 of the lyrics um his attitude was uh integral to the the band and uh i think just the farther we strayed away from that even though i love playing with those people,

it just felt like it was like maybe a different band, you know? That's fair. I mean, you guys started it together. Exactly. And, you know, like 10 years of like right beside each other. And yeah. And this is when you form Blurtonia. Yes.

Where did that name come from? This woman I, oh God, it's the worst name. This woman I used to know, I haven't seen her in a long time, but she used to call me the king of all Blurtonia. And I was, you know, figuring out a band name is one of the hardest parts of being in a band, period. And I don't know why I went with that name. I just thought it was going to be like a little one-off kind of solo-y thing,

and then it evolved into a band. So by the time the second record came around, there was actually a band. It's sort of like the band Manfred Mann, because Manfred Mann was the name of the keyboard guy. Yes. And it's like, I don't think, as I understand it, the rest of the band never cared for this, because it's like, wait, that's your name.

It now is the band's name. Right. It's like, anyway, so Plurtonia, but you are the man. Okay, so the question I have for you is, I should just preface this by telling you, I currently produce a podcast for humble and Fred, which means I spent a lot of time of humble and Fred and I've seen, they have hanging in their studio wall on the studio wall.

They have, uh, like a poster for humble and Fred fest. Oh, for York. Yeah. So I've, I've got a photo of this.

I've seen it many times, the lineup of a humble and Fred fest at Fort York. Yeah. So I've got a photo of this. I've seen it many times, the lineup of Humble and Fred Fest at Fort York. Do you have any memories of Humble and Fred Fest? I do. I remember being smoked by Tricky Woo. Like, oh my God. Right. Yeah.

Yes, I'm now trying to visualize the poster, right? Yeah. I think we should have been on before them because they were actually doing, you know, I feel like I got put higher up on the bill just because of previous things. Because of change of heart. Yeah, and Tricky, we were absolutely on fire at that point.

So it was a rough go. So for all... I think that might have actually been one of our first shows of the touring lineup. Maybe even the first show. And at what point do you decide you're going to go solo? Do you mean like post-Blurtonia? Yeah, post-Blurtonia.

Well, the first record kind of was a solo record. I did make it by myself more or less with like a lot of guests. And then it became a band. That sort of happens with like a lot of guests and then it became a band that sort of happens with me a lot okay um and i don't i didn't really go i'm trying to think of what happened next i guess uh i joined bionic right right right right and then uh come on and then come on yeah another great uh name for a band come on yeah we were shocked when we were like looking around and for a name and that hadn't been used it was like wow that's crazy okay and uh right okay

so here's we're gonna get to the questions now here before because i don't want to leave these guys out because hamilton mike and then we'll get back to sammy's question but because we'll talk about you know the all the great artists you produced albums for. And then there's even an FOTM who I correspond with often on Twitter who said some really nice things about you. So brace yourself, buddy. But Hamilton Mike,

he says, ask him, besides Glenn Milchum being a ridiculously amazing, versatile drummer and an insanely kind person, myself having met him before. Why does he seem to be his go-to drummer?

Wait, I answered my own question. Okay. So say some nice things about Glenn Milchum there, if you will. Well, I just, Glenn and I seem to have, you know, as a musician, when you come across people that you connect with, it doesn't happen all the time. And so when you do connect with somebody and you know that they can pull it off, right. Um, you kind of tend to stick with them. And Glenn has like always, he brings a hundred percent to like whatever he's doing. And, uh, I think that's what makes such a, such a joy to

play with him is like, um um he's always right there like he always has great ideas and uh i just gotta say that as an aside uh damon richardson who was the last drummer in change of heart is somebody i play with still a lot too cool and uh i just i feel like lucky that i know two of i i consider them two of the best drummers in canada and um you know glenn's in my current band and damon played on the first album of this current band or at least half of it so but yeah glenn is just he's fantastic and you know like he he was my neighbor in the early 90s um we lived on bathurst side by side and uh I just always respected him and his playing, and I don't know.

Amazing, amazing. Okay, so we're going to close this conversation with Future now, but we're going to talk briefly here about some other artists you produced albums for, because there's some pretty big heavyweights here. But we will open with Sammy Cohn's favorite band, one of his favorite bands, being a good Winnipegger, The Weaker Thans. What was it likenipegger, The Weaker Thans.

What was it like producing an album for The Weaker Thans? I've done three. Every time, really fantastic. I have nothing but respect for that band. I love the way they work. I love their songs. I think John Kay, Samson,

is probably one of the best lyricists ever from Canada. Agreed. I have lots of great memories. My most vivid memory is definitely the first record I worked on with them on was Left in Leaving.

Great album, by the way. Not that I had anything to do with it. Well, you did have something to do with it. Yeah, but, you know. You can take a little credit, Ian. Yeah, but if the songs aren't there and the band isn't good, then it's like, you know, it's a long shot. It takes a village.

It takes a village. But, you know, staying, I stayed in John's apartment. He stayed elsewhere, and it was, like, right on Albert Street and, you know, right beside the Royal Albert. And so I just have a very vivid memory of like walking around the Osborne Village and stuff okay that also satisfies Sammy's other question because he wants to know what you thought of your time in Winnipeg uh I love Winnipeg um uh I've actually spent a lot of time there even outside of uh playing um have you ever bumped into FOTM Fred Penner when you're walking around no I haven't I've actually spent a lot of time there, even outside of playing.

Have you ever bumped into FOTM Fred Penner when you're walking around? No, I haven't, but that would be amazing. I did watch an amazing Sue Foley show, though, once standing outside. Times changed. I guess one of the most vivid... We did one of the Weak of the Ends records in February in Winnipeg, and that was really cold. Well, it was Neil Young and the Guess Who guy. Yeah, Portage and Main.

Portage and Main. Was it 50 below? Yeah, and that's where I was staying, exactly where I was staying. So it was like, oh, it was cold. Sorry for calling Randy Bachman, the great Randyman the uh i called him the guess who guy i don't think that's cool but okay so randy bachman by the way uh has a new podcast but my problem with it is it's basically a terrestrial radio show that they're issuing as a podcast i like it when podcasts are like made for podcast audiences because we're very different but this is clearly

made for terrestrial radio to air. And then they just made it a podcast. He talks for a minute about the song, but it's always the big hits from the same bands. I would rather it would be some deeper stuff and some bigger mind blows and stuff.

But anyways, who am I to judge the great Randy Bachman? Okay, so we talked about Lois of the Low earlier what was it like which albums did you produce for Lois of the Low Sword Fiction which is great too but I'm a big fan but yeah great album

yeah there were you know I don't have a lot of memories of recording that record was that the ass were you dropping a lot of acid yeah I was doing a lot of acid and uh stick to cannabis you'll remember everything but okay maybe um i most yeah um i just really remember hanging with them more than anything okay and you know, we had a, let's see, we mixed that record in Seattle. And I feel like, oh, no, I'm drawing a blank. It's okay.

It's okay. It's been a long career there, man. You're still here, man. And you feel good? I do remember, though, once coming from lunch, and we're, like, all walking, and we're're talking and Ron's right beside me. And, and this woman drives away on a bike and her handlebar grabs the cuff of my jean jacket and just rips it right off. And I'm just standing there like looking at my jean jacket. Why do I remember that?

Well, yeah, because you love that jean jacket. I did actually. Yeah, I know. You know, once you fall in love with a jean jacket,

you're stuck. Of course you're going to remember that. Oh my God. That's another biking, biking catastrophe there. Okay. Uh, and I'm just cherry picking a few here because you've worked with so many great artists. But I just want to ask about, we mentioned Bedini was at the plaque unveiling outside

of Horseshoe Tavern for Dave Bookman the other day. Real statics? Pretty weird. We didn't really get along so great. And they ended up finishing the record with somebody else. I love them and uh i've known them for a long long time and in fact they gave change of heart you know very very early shows and stuff so i have nothing but respect for them but um you know they can't all be uh

wine and roses no no no it can always you know and like you know i i i've talked to other producers about it and it's like, I actually have a pretty good track record of not being fired from records compared to some, you know. Because if you start working with a certain type of band, there's way more likelihood of getting fired. Oh, I can imagine. Not that the Rios are even that kind of band.

I'm talking about, you know, high maintenance. Now, you mentioned earlier that you kind of got screwed with the u.s label that folded on you what was that that was a distribution deal distribution deal like but that kind of stuff always i always think about sky diggers because um they got really fucked by i guess their first two albums the masters were owned by some company that went under and andy came over and told me andy mays told me this story they were on enigma and they couldn't even

get their masters back or whatever apparently like yeah like for the first with the you know with the I Will Give You Everything

and Penny Moore and all that stuff but yeah like they had a it's a really terrible like bad luck story and there's so many stories of bad things

you can't control with record labels and I always think like oh it's like it really it's not enough just to be a good fucking band

writing great songs you have to have all these other things line up and go right before you can't control with record labels. And I always think like, oh, he's like, it really, it's not enough just to be a good fucking band writing great songs. You have to have all these other things line up and go right before you can. Oh, it's, it's crazy how much stuff you have to have lined up for it to go right. Man. But, uh,

what you worked with Sky Diggers, what was that like? I did. Oh God, it was great. I mean, I love those. Yeah.

Again, I, I've known Andy. We shared management when he was in Directive 17. And I think they won the Discovery Disc at that maybe or something similar that CFNY had at the time, which would have been the 80s. Okay, maybe during the Marsden era, maybe.

Or just after, maybe. I don't know. But we shared management, so I've known Andy for a long time. Andy's a sweetheart. Andy and Josh. I once accidentally. They're all of them. Yeah, they are.

Yeah, definitely. No, I accidentally texted Andy when my furnace went down because for some reason I had him listed as furnace guy in my phone. And Andy was a sweetheart. I'll be right over. Let me just grab my tools. He came over. He fixed my furnace.

It was the middle of winter. But shout out to Sky Diggers here. Okay. And here, this guy was in this backyard, I think it was last year. And we talked earlier about Manfred Mann. This might be the only Manfred I actually know. But did you recently work with elephants and stars? I did.

I've worked with them twice. Okay. Well, because I know it's funny. I think Ron Hawkins worked with elephant stars. So elephant stars. And I should have's funny. I think Ron Hawkins worked with Elephant Stars. So Elephant Stars, and I should have worn, now I'm kicking myself. I'm wearing the Pete Fowler Lost in D-City T-shirt, but I should have worn my Elephants and Stars T-shirt.

But okay, just because he's listening now and he's very excited about your appearance on Toronto Mike because he's a big Ian Blurden fan. What would you say about Elephants and Stars? Shitty band, right? Terrible. Terrible band. No, you know, they, as much as we don't see eye to eye on a lot of music,

like they like a lot, you know, they like Buffalo Tom and stuff like that. And I was always like, there's a lot of common ground there, you know, just on the outlier stuff. And I get along with them. they're really fun to be around. Um, they work hard too, which is, I,

you know, I always, if a band is willing to work hard, then I'm, I'm, you know, there's a level of respect there that goes with it for sure. Cool.

All right. Uh, and this is not change of heart, but we're going to play this song and then we're going to talk about it. Do you want to believe in the fate of years. The present ignites, died to fall, it's before the day. Anyone who will tease a trust unequal. The locks on the table

Unbroken Sheltered in the mass You wait for the moment We see the chains of rain The sky is cold You better rise, rise, rise Now like a ghost. No, like a ghost. Like a ghost.

Now. Now. Now. Future now. That's where I'm getting all conflated here. By the way, the present time, as we speak into these microphones in the backyard, the day is glorious again. We've seen it all today, Ian.

You're never going to forget your Toronto mic debut. I will actually never, never forget this. This is great. When you're eating your lasagna, you'll be like, yeah, that mic guy gave me this, and it's damn good from Palma Pasta. Okay. And by the way, I know you're not a drinker, but all the FOTMs who enjoy a good fresh craft beer know

Great Lakes Brewery is where you get your fresh craft beer, and they are hosting TMLXX on September 1 from 6 to 9 p.m. I'm going to talk Ian into coming over. I have a live mic there. Imagine Ian coming by. Okayember 1 from 6 to 9 p.m i'm gonna talk ian into coming over i have a live mic there imagine ian coming by okay i'll talk to him later don't he's not listening now but okay tell me about future now um uh do you know what future now is i do actually you're all burnt out you're like i can't do 90 minutes of this no no i can do 90 minutes um so yeah i made a i uh i was in a band or yeah i was in a band called public animal and um uh there was some downtime and i started making this more sort of heavier type guitar there was keyboards in that

band so in a co-vocal a co-lead vocalist and uh just started making sort of like i don't want to say metal but like something uh heavier lots of double kick yeah and glenn milchum plays double kick he doesn't get to play double kick in blue rodeo and i was like come on and play some double kick um so i made this sort of heavy record and then to put the band, like to tour, I put a band together and it's Anna Ruddick, who's a phenomenal bass player, who's played with Randy Bachman and lots of people. Portage, Maine, 50 blow. She's probably had to play that song.

And Aaron Goldstein, who's a great local producer, guitar player. He's got his own band, Espanola. I recorded his band Huron years ago. So we just got this power quartet. Can I play another one? Sure, if you want. Yeah, you push it on the board Yeah, you take the deal

You tap the night into It's a game reveal How the stereotype stands In your closet I'm safe And then I can keep What the gateway was to The ghost, the ghost of my death Stuck by

Stuck by shadow The sage of love The sinner of the night The black hole The black hole The black hole passes Tonight You, Ian Blurton, are a talented SOB. Are you aware of that?

Have I convinced you now 80 minutes into this? Okay, second skin. Title track from the new album. And okay, I do want to say the URL once, twice, maybe three times, but I know you can go to ianblurton.bandcamp.com. Is that where you'd like people to go or is there somewhere else? Yeah, that's, well, I mean, if you're looking for, there's two versions of the vinyl of this new record, Second Skin.

And we, my girlfriend and I have a label called Pajama Party, and we put out the black vinyl version, and then there's another label in Ohio called Seeing Red, and they put out the variants. So there's a couple of color variants that you could get from them if that's something you're interested in. See, earlier the airplane noise was in the video. Oh, my hell.

Now it's here. My helicopter's here. I know how you Canadian rock stars live with your helicopter. Well, Drake's coming to pick me up. You know, Drake, shame on you. Green Economy Heroes, Dr. Diane Sachs. I produce your podcast. We are trying to reduce our carbon footprints.

How did you get here today, Ian? Uh-oh. Oh, it's okay. Cab. Cab, okay. Well, you know what? We're none of us perfect right I'm gonna walk home

I'm gonna walk nine kilometers home what neighborhood is home oh Parkdale oh Parkdale proud shout out to Parkdale yeah I was born at St. Joe's

oh really yeah so that's where yeah and a couple of my kids were born there too so yeah I love

and that's where I go when I break my bones biking I just broke my I broke my wrist during. I just broke my, I broke my wrist during the pandemic and I was, uh, treated nicely at the fracture clinic at St.

Joe's. And I was treated by the same doctor at the same time who was treating the broken wrist of you ready for this name? I'm going to drop on you. Biff naked. Oh yeah. So we had the same Dr. Lopez, same,

same wrist. I think hers was actually worse than mine. She required surgery. Mine did not. But both biking accidents. Oh, man. See what happens when you reduce your carbon footprint? Dangerous out there.

I'm a biker myself. Good for you. I love it. Me too. I bike every day. Okay. So ianblurton.bandcamp.com is a good place to go. What is the future?

So, you know, future now. Now, so what is the future of Change of Heart? You know, the nostalgic junkies out there listening to Toronto Mike. They're curious. I don't even know if I should say this or not. Just say it. No one's listening. We're making a new record, actually.

Okay, that's breaking news. Where's my sound effect? Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. Wow. You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, hopefully Rob won't be mad. But that's exciting because I know a lot of listeners, I just talk about what I'm interested in,

and it just turns out that by the end of the day, you realize, oh, it's like the bulk of listenership is like Toronto-raised Gen Xers. Right. You're like, oh, that wasn't like on purpose. I try not to like just live in the Gen X land, but it just turns out that way

because you keep talking to Lois to the low and change your heart or whatever. So this, the fact that there's a new Change of Heart album coming is going to resonate

with a number of the FOTMs listening right now. All 12 people. Listen, 12 is better than zero, right? Yes, yes. No, you are right. And you're leaving with us on you. Yeah.

You're leaving with us on you. I'll let Humble and Fred know that maybe Change of Heart can play the next Humble and Fred Fest. They don't still do that, do they? No. No. No, that was terrestrial radio stuff. Yeah, we don't have a budget anymore. But that's why when I have my TMLX events, I once had an event at Great Lakes that Ron Hawkins

and Lawrence Nichols played. They played live. Right on. Ask me how much money I gave them. How much did you give them? Zero.

And I have this, like I said, I'm going to bug you later, but I'm trying to plan something really cool for September 1st. But again, no budget,

but not that, you know, people attend for free. It's not like I make any money. Right. I do end up losing money at the end of it all, but I can't lose too much because I got four kids, Ian. Okay, but not that people attend for free. It's not like I make any money. Right. I do end up losing money at the end of it all, but I can't lose too much because I got four kids, Ian. Okay, but enough about me.

This is about you. How was your Toronto Mic debut? Did you enjoy this? I loved it. It's fantastic. I love this new music. This Future Now sounds great. I like it too.

Yeah, you better like it. You better like it. You better be your own champion here. So, new Change of heart music coming uh now i know you're uh how will i word this you are covid cautious yes so like are you playing any live anything or are you doing um we're future now is doing a record release show uh august 13th at the horseshoe with, can I just give you the whole spiel? Yeah, Sam Coffey and the Iron Lungs were a wonderful band

and one of my favorite bands from Canada, they're called Sick Things, they're from Montreal, they're sort of like Big Star and Thin Lizzy Power Pop and some 70s rock put together and they're great songs. Okay, and since, you know, that whole spiel it was sorry saturday

august 13th at the horseshoe okay so are you nervous about being in the horseshoe of like i actually am and i haven't played a show in two and a half years and i've actually don't think i've ever rehearsed more for a show in my life but are you like are you nervous about germs like is there any no it's like well there's well, there's that. No, there's that. And then forgetting words and like not having stood up and played in a long time. There's been a lot of chair guitaring going on in the last two and a half years. It's like riding a bike. Just don't fall off.

Yeah, but, you know, sometimes like with a tour, like you're like, ah, first show's passed. And then you sort of roll into it a little bit. And so just to have that burst of one show might be, it might be a bloodletting. Actually, it might be a bloodletting show. Okay, good. So August what, 13th? August, Saturday, August 13th. August 13th.

That's a Saturday night horseshoe tavern. Amazing. All of this is amazing, Ian. I've been looking forward to this, and you did not disappoint. We covered a lot of ground. But was there anything when you're driving here today and you're thinking, oh, I want to tell this story

or I hope, is there anything you wanted to spit into these microphones and you don't, I don't want you driving home and saying, oh, I forgot to say this. No, I'm just appreciative

of these kind of things and being able to do this and the fact that actually people send in questions is nice. So there you go. And we close, as we close every episode of Toronto Mic, this is episode 1,088.

Better late than never, but we did work on this for years, Ian. So we tried to get this done earlier, but we finally made it happen. But we close every episode with Rosie and Grave from Shakespeare, My Butt by a little band named Lowest of the Low. Why do you close with that song?

When I started this show, at the time I had a co-host named Rosie. And we both loved this album passionately. And we thought we should close with Rosie and Gray because she was Rosie and I was going gray. gray because she was rosy and I was going gray. And that's 1,088 episodes ago. Congratulations on that. That's a really, that's amazing.

I'm going to cut that out and just put that in the intro. Ian Blurton says it's amazing. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for being here again. Amazing. Thank you. And before you drive off, not only do you get the lasagna, but we got to take a photo together by the tree,

every guest in the same spot. I've seen it. I've seen it. I'm excited for that. I'm excited too. And that brings us to the end of our 1,088th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Ian, you're at Ian Blurton.

At Ian Blurton. Should I hammer that T or is it Blurton? Like, do you're at ian blurton at ian blurton should i hammer that t or is it blurton like do you want it to be blurton or blurton i think you hammer the t no regrets because whenever i say toronto people are like you're clearly not from here you said toronto it's toronto and i'm like i was born at saint joe's how more from here should i be what more do you want and I can say it any way I want. Right. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. Dewar are at Dewar Performance. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana Underscore. See you all next week. mile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away cause everything is rosy and green well i've been told that there's a sucker born every day but i wonder who yeah i wonder who who maybe the one who doesn't realize

There's a thousand shades of grey Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you? All that picking up trash and then putting down roads And they're putting down roads. They're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes.

And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can. Maybe I'm not and maybe I am. But who gives a? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. And it won't go away, because everything is rosy and green Well I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places

I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much sun go down on Chaclacour. But I like it much better going down on you. Yeah, you know that's true. Because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms us today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine

And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy, yeah Everything is rosy and gray Yeah, yeah, yeah