Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jane Hawtin: Toronto Mike'd #1119

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

In this 1119th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Jane Hawtin as they discuss her years at Q107, CKFM, CFRB, Talk 640 and CBC, as well as her time hosting Jane Hawtin Live for television. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1119 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna cabana.com today making her toronto mic debut is jane hodden welcome jane hey happy to be here danny elwell sent me a note this morning i say though you're coming up in 50 minutes and Danny wrote Radio Goddess. So no pressure, Jane. That's sweet. Sweet. Oh, and Sweet Jane, a great Velvet Underground

song. How many times have people played Sweet Jane for you? That one and also the one by Barenaked Ladies? Yeah, of course. Jane, which is actually named after the intersection Jane St. Claire. There you go. So shout out to the very naked ladies.

Really? You said it was for me. I bet you. Okay, there's a great cover. I just want to shout out the Cowboy Junkies because the Cowboy Junkies, the Timmons there, Margot and Michael, I believe, they covered Sweet Jane by the Velvet Underground. And I didn't even know it was a cover

when this thing was playing on Much Music all the time. And I just thought it was gorgeous. So sweet Jane in the Toronto Mike studio. Better late than never. Happy to have you. Thanks. So lots of ground to cover, but I want to start, if we can, in Kingston, Ontario.

Let's go way back. Sure. Or maybe even further back. When did you realize, you know, you had radio in your future, Jane? When I accidentally fell into it. How about that? How did that happen? So in 76, the sailing Olympics were held in Kingston and I had this incredibly high pressure job that I kind of lucked into. And I had, um, I had a bunch of secretaries and one of my secretaries was the

wife of the owner of the radio station so Jimmy Waters and so he knew we got to know each other socially and he knew I had this incredibly high pressure job because that was the Olympics after Munich so I was under big security and all of that. Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. So anyway, met Jimmy Waters through that. He knew I had this high pressure job. He had seen me act in Kingston because my degree at Queen's was in politics and drama. Okay. And so he just offered me a job as co-host of the Toronto, no, sorry, Kingston Today, Kingston Today at CKLC.

Okay. I have a little clip. Sure. This will help set things up because I'm also interested in your co-host, somebody we know, especially from TSN. All right, let's listen to a little bit of Kingston Today. All that comes your way tomorrow afternoon at 1. This is Peter Watts.

And Jane Houghton, inviting you to join us again tomorrow for another edition of Kingston Today. Wow. Peter Watts was your co-host. Yeah. And Peter sadly no longer with us. Peter Watts would go on and spend time I think in Alberta

but a long time TSN personality. That's right. Yeah. I think that was speeded up but anyway. Okay well let me try again. Hold hold on now that you said that i need to play it again here hold on listen i don't think it is but uh this is this is how it played on a video i was looking at but let's check it out all that comes your way tomorrow afternoon at one this is peter watts and jane houghton inviting you to join us again tomorrow for

another edition of kingston today but you're jane this is probably you're hearing your voice and saying i don't sound like that anymore but uh most radio broadcasters, when they hear something from, you know, decades ago, I know Humble Howard has this effect like, oh, I sounded like that. You know, and it sounds like you're pitched up, but it's just, you know, your voice just you get deeper, you know, but that's you Kingston today. Yeah, doesn't matter. Whatever. But so that, that was kind of my start in radio because my then husband was, I needed to stay in Kingston. I just, I wanted to be a lawyer. That's where I was headed originally. And so I wanted to stay in Kingston and do the extra credits I needed because I hadn't been accepted at Queens for law. I'd been accepted at McGill. And then I did radio and went, oh my god, this is pretty fun. It just suited you. It did. It really did. And that name, Jim Waters, that's THE Jim Waters you're referring to there.

It is. THE Jim Waters. It's a good contact to make in your youth if you want to get in radio. It was, but I had to leave him very quickly. Do you want to hear that story? Of course. About how I got to Q107? Are you kidding me?

I'm going to spend three hours on Q107. Let's get you there. Okay. So here's what happened. They were looking for, I think, an overnight or a weekend newscaster at CHUM in Toronto. So I went down to do an interview. And I'd only been in radio, I guess, maybe six months or so. And I had to do an audition that was a newscast.

And I did a perfect newscast. And when it finished, I was like, oh, man, that's a perfect newscast. And it's never happened before. So I was for Dick Smythe. Oh, wow. Yeah. So Dick Smythe went away to say he he was like, wow, that was Yeah, great. He was so excited. And I'm kind of like, oh, crap, I kind of kind of conned this a little bit, because I may not be able to ever do that again. Right. Anyway, he went away. And he was going to hire me. And he said, I'll come back, He went away and he was going to hire me and he said, I'll come back.

I'll get the details worked out. And then he was gone a long time. So I knew something had gone wrong because he really was gone a long time. So he came back. I heard a big thump and yelling in the newsroom. And then he came in and said, I can't hire you. The higher ups have said Toronto is not ready for a female newscaster. Wow.

And they will not let me give you the job. Wow. Yeah. So I found out later that the thump was him picking up a typewriter and throwing it against the wall. I went out. I was a bit weepy because I thought, that sucks. Yeah, and all the things to work on. This is your gender.

That's right. I can't do anything about it. So anyways, what turned out was that Dick Smythe's secretary, whose name, unfortunately, I can't remember, called her buddy, Mark Daly. Oh, you're dropping the big names off the top here, Jane. You know where you are. Wow.

Who is at Q107. And he said, you won't, she told him, you won't believe what they just did to this woman who came in from Kingston. She's an amazing newscaster. And they said they couldn't hire her because she was, because Toronto wasn't ready for a woman. Wow. So Mark Daly called me and said, Q107 is ready for a woman wow so mark daly called me and said q107 is ready for

a woman oh wow and he said all we have left at this point is weekend news but if i can cobble something together are you interested i said damn right i am and talked to jimmy and i felt bad because i was jimmy had given me my start but he was like no go if you go to if you go to chum they're going to have you interviewing elephants at the zoo for a long time before you get to do anything real, and you're better than that, so go to Q. You'd think, though, you'd think, you know, just what do I know, but you'd think Jim Waters could make a phone call, and suddenly Toronto would be ready for a woman news personality.

Not in those days, no. Because, I mean, if you look at Gary Slate and Jim Waters, they were both sent out somewhere to start. So in Jimmy's case, he was sent to Kingston to run the Kingston station, and he wasn't the powerful guy he was going to become in Toronto. And Gary Slate, of course, was a salesman before he was program director at Q107, right? So both those dads had ideas about how to get started. And when you get a call from Mark Daly, I'm just, do you remember the phone call?

Vividly, I just would wonder, hearing that voice on the phone. I mean, that voice. I mean, Dick Smythe is a legend, of course. But Mark Daly, even just the voice itself, he's from the Big Eight. This is the voice. Literally, the name we've given to the late, great Mark Daly is the voice. That's like the voice of God calling. That's a big deal. I should have, but I actually didn't know that much about radio, even though I grew up in Toronto. I wasn't a radiophile. I wasn't a radio file.

I wasn't a radio person. I hadn't intended to go in this direction at all. So for me, it was more like, yeah, stick it to job. I'm going to Q who was, that was about to get all this attention. So I was at Q, I think two weeks after they went on the air. Okay. So I was going to ask you, they sign on, it's noon on June 1st, 1977, shortly after the Blue Jays start up actually. So June 1st, 1977, that's when Q107 signs on. So you're not there from day one, but you're awfully close.

But I was only part-time and what they cobbled together was they had me doing traffic from the air, weekend traffic from the air at CFGM. So Fridays and Sundays, I was Jane in the plane up at CFGM. And then the rest of the time I was doing part-time news. I can't remember what my newscasts were, but they hired three women to do news. So it was myself, Deborah Edwards, and, oh man, I meant to write this down, Sue Lumsden. We were the three that they hired off the top.

What are the call letters you just dropped on me? CFGM, which was the country station. Okay, remind me, I'm learning here on the go here. So what was the frequency? Like what is CFGM? Oh, I don't remember. You don't remember anymore? No, it was out of Richmond Hill.

Okay. And it was the country station. So I was Jane in the plane when I did the traffic, yeah. And lots of ground to cover here, but you're the first at some point, and you tell me how long you had to kind of do the Jane and the Plane stuff and everything before you became the first female news director in private radio. I guess this is a couple years later. It was quite a few years later because I came full time to Q quite quickly as soon as they decided to make barometer from 15 minutes to an hour.

So that became my show. And that's when I went there, plus doing the two newscasts in the afternoon. They put in a couple of, I never wanted to be news director, only because I loved what I was doing. It was so much fun, but I only wanted to be responsible for myself. And my attitude was that if I was going to do management, I would go somewhere else, make a lot more money than you would in radio. So I, I resisted. Uh, they asked me a couple of times and I said, no. Um, but then they put a couple of guys that were,

I didn't like their attitude. So the third time I said yes. And I actually didn't know I was the first female newscaster, or first female news director in the country for several years when someone came to interview me for a book about female broadcasters. And that's when she said, so did you know, did you really canvas to become the first? And I went, I didn't know I was the first. But my question is, did Q107 know that you were going to be the first female news director? Or was it simply that they had no issue with your gender, that you were, you know, you were qualified for the gig? Yeah, they had no issue with gender.

And Q107 had no issue with gender right from the beginning, which is kind of the reason why I'm talking to you, because of what has happened now in present day with the stories out of Q107. women were being promoted at Q. And so I wanted to know from him whether that was mandate, whether that was something that they promised to the CRTC as part of getting their license, or whether it was philosophy. And he said it wasn't mandate, it wasn't written down to the CRTC, this is what we're going to do. But it was definitely the idea of Q107,

that they were going to be trying to do something different with the album rock, but they were going to be trying to do something different with the album rock, but they also wanted the sound, the tone, the attitude of the whole radio station to be different as well. And the way he put it to me the other day was that they already had men and they already had lots of talent that way,

but none of the talent had been found for women. And so that's why they put women into, or went looking for women for all the categories, not just news, but on air, to give it a different sound. And also the way he put it, he said, and let's remember, it was the 70s, so there certainly was some biology going on. And they wanted to hear what that interaction would be, male and female, wanted to hear what that interaction would be, male and female, on air. And so that was a conscious, promotable decision to put women on the air. And is this, okay, so now I mentioned Q107 starts up in 77, but is this, so this is in the 80s that this becomes like a priority

or a mandate of some sort? I'm only asking that because you shared this great photo of me i loved it i tweeted it actually uh it was entitled class of 78 and it had all these people you know ted wallace in like only you know john donabee these are all fotms by the way jane you're now an fotm friend of toronto mike okay welcome to that that's going to be a bigger we're going to talk about some other accolades you've got this is going to be the biggest one for you j Jane, I promise you. But I'm looking at this photo and I'm thinking about Q107 as a place that puts women first

and we're going to dive into more detail there. But this photo has, I counted, ready? Okay. There's 13 guys in the photo. There's one chicken and there's you, Jane Hodden. That's it. Class of 78. Yep.

And I was actually, you know, I had never seen that ad until a couple of years ago. Somebody pulled it. I don't remember ever seeing it. And I don't remember ever describing myself that way, whatever the description was that they said I said. But it may be that I don't know why there aren't other women in that picture. Because I can't quite remember. Because there were quite a few women at the beginning but maybe they didn't last and that's like obviously it's a photo of people on air it's on air right and and maybe you were just simply at that time

you were the only woman who was on the air but you know what about what about tasha sims and dusty shannon maybe they came after i just i'm just not sure. And Samantha Taylor was there, but she wasn't, maybe she wasn't on air or maybe they, who knows, maybe they had this idea they weren't going to include people that were overnight. I don't remember what. But regardless, you were there and you're telling me, and again, we're going to give a little context here because I dropped an episode 1071, which is also 1071. See how clever I am, Jane? I saw that.

I heard that. It was very clever. So here's the big real talk question for you, Jane. Now you're in my basement. I've got the mics are live. You're captive. What did we get wrong? So that's built on conversations I had

with other Q107 personalities over the years. I mentioned Wallachian and Donabee, and I've had a lot of great people who were involved with Q107 on the years. I mentioned Wallachian and Donabee and I've had a lot of great people who were involved with Q107 on the program. What did we get wrong in episode 1071 that this is your opportunity to kind of correct the record and

to clean up some of that? That was put together by the VP of sales and me shortly after the Jennifer Valentine video about John Derringer. And then subsequent to that, we heard from Maureen Holloway, who's in that episode talking about it. And Jackie Delaney was on my program talking about this verbal abuse and workplace bullying

that was going on and seemed to be enabled by management at the time. These are the allegations, of course. Please, Jane Hodden. What did we get wrong in episode 1071? Well, you didn't get anything wrong. It's just that I think, and I don't know whether this is people's memories or what it is, it's not remembering how many women were there and how important they were and how respected they were and how supported they

were right that's why i was quite devastated by the whole derringer thing because it's like whoa what happened that's like 40 years in the past where women were being supported where harassment wasn't being allowed it was being nipped in the bud. And we all worked together. I mean, it really was, I never felt like lesser, because I was a woman or anything like that. And I mean, I could have felt a lot lesser, because technically, I was news as opposed to on air. And usually, and often, there's a distinction between that on a radio station. But it wasn't for me. And I don't think, I really don't think it was, you know, for the other women that worked there.

They felt supported. They felt they didn't feel oppressed. They didn't feel like that any, and certainly John said it was our, John Paracall said it was our policy to nip any kind of harassment or whatever in the bud. It just wasn't allowed. So now let me, so as I follow this,

so we should just tell people and we're going to walk through all the other, you know, you, again, to quote Danny Elwell, as we did off the top, you're a radio goddess. So there's a whole bunch of ground to cover,

but you're at Q107 for a good decade, right? You don't leave till 87. Yeah. 10 years. 10 years. Were you there? Was there a young John Hayes or john derringer i don't

remember what his name was when he started at q but had he shown up yet yes but i think he was an afternoon jock so i don't think he had any power um and and i'm not really going to get into i can't really get into what happened afterwards because i don't know i wasn't there you weren't there but bill hayes was there his brother, who's also an FOTM. Oh man, he's like one of the nicest guys in the entire industry. And a great voice. Yes, yeah, great guy, great guy. And there were all these great people having so much fun. Am I reading between the lines here that during your decade at Q107,

you did not witness anything like what's been reported by people like calling rush home and maureen holloway and uh jackie delaney that you you come you you you in your opinion i'm not i don't want to put words in your mouth but you're here to correct me but this that would not have been tolerated it would have been what is it nipped in the bud as you as you said yeah i mean did i i I mean, there was a, there was a time when one musician, one of the guys in the bands who grabbed me when I was carrying records, because my hands were full. cue. He didn't work a cue. He was an outsider. And everybody was like, oh my God, like this is, he grabbed Jane Houghton. This is going to be in so much trouble. Like it was, you know, and so I, I hope it wasn't just me, just my experience that, but you know, I really don't think so because we were all kind of cliche to use family,

but we did a lot together. We did everything together. So if something had happened and people weren't supported, I would have heard about it. And I was kind of a bit of a den mother for everybody. And I would have gone toe to toe with whoever was that was behaving badly. So if I were in your place, those first 10 years at Q107 and witnessing what you witnessed and you know an environment that you know didn't didn't discriminate against gender you didn't witness any uh blatant misogyny this was a you know woman came first in uh type of uh place and then to the

current legacy like q107 due to these allegations against john derringer who's no longer with uh with the company uh we're no longer with the company, no longer with Chorus, that you're, like, it's kind of tainted anything that came before, because no one's going to talk about this place you worked at for 10 years, because now when people talk about Q107, the first thing they're going to talk about

is that, oh, those poor women that were mistreated by John Derringer. Right, and that's what broke my heart when I heard those stories. It really did, because it was different. And it doesn't mean that they succeeded all the time. It wasn't perfect. And there may have been stories that I didn't hear, but it was, it was different. It was revolutionary. We were working together. It was so hopeful for the future. It was like, whoa, you know, we're breaking through all of those glass ceilings were,

and it was so exciting. I mean, it was such an exciting place to be at that time. I mean, firstly, in 1980, they, they, they hire, sorry, I guess they promote the very first female news director in private radio history in this country. Someone named Jane Hodden. There you go. There you go. That happened. Okay. Now I want to ask you a few specific questions. One is about barometers. So right someone named james hodden so there you go so there's there you go that happened okay now i want to ask you a few specific questions so one is about barometers so barometer i remember listening to barometer now are you the first like i know it was 1 p.m to 2 p.m is that the okay are you the first host of barometer or or did you you know you took over as host of barometer

i'm trying to because i mean you came so early but i know what you at first you took over as host of Barometer. I'm trying to, because you came so early, but I know at first you had to pay some dues up in the plane, et cetera. But a lot of greats though. Deanie Petty was on the program. And you know, Deanie became famous, initially became famous because she was in like a pink helicopter for 590.

I think it was. And I was up in a plane at the same time. It was your plane pink, Jane. No, it was not. It was a four-seater Cessna. So it was a different kind of experience out of Buttonville. Right. You know what?

I honestly can't remember. It was 15 minutes and maybe each of us contributed the beginning. I honestly can't remember. It's too long ago. Too long ago. I know when it went to an hour that it was my show. It was your show until you left, and we'll get to it in 87, and that's when Bill Carroll takes over.

Right. Any thoughts about Bill Carroll? He's a huge admirer of yours. Yes, he is. He has good taste. Do you want to hear the reason I left Q107? Okay, yes. Then I'm going to have to jump back like Quentin Tarantino.

Okay, no, I can do Bill Carroll now. That's fine. It was my recommendation that they put Bill Carroll onto barometer when I left. When they said, who do you think should take over? I said, give it to Bill. Bill, I hope he sends you some residuals. He's always been very generous about um saying how much i helped his career and and we're we're good friends except he's so right wing now that it's

that always ruins a good friendship when people turn to the dark side exactly so he took over as a host of barometer on q107 when you left and you left for well yeah i guess i think i do know the answer but here before i get you to leave q107 uh you left. And you left for, well, yeah, I guess, I think I do know the answer, but here, before I get you to leave Q107, I want to ask you about another great woman, and I'm hoping you'll spend some time telling me about her because I believe you guys are friends. But I'm going to play a clip from her.

This is somebody I think will be in the news quite a bit shortly. Let's listen to this familiar voice. Jane Haughton literally took me off the streets. Way back in 1984, I was running a birth control clinic for kids, and I was tramping around Toronto teaching sex and sexuality. And Jane asked me to do an interview on a rock radio station, a program she was doing called barometer of course i accepted and we did the interview she was marvelous i was so impressed with her and so she became my mentor but we also became friends.

That is Sue Johansson from Sex with Sue. That's right. Okay, that's a big... Listen, you're talking to a bunch of Gen Xers right now. Not everyone listening is a Gen Xer, but this is sort of the core. And we listened to Sex with Sue on Q107 and we saw Sue Johansson on Degrassi, the OG Degrassi, okay?

The one that we all grew up with, Joey and Joey Jeremiah and the Zit Remedy. So this is a big deal. And my first question is, how is Sue doing these days? I think she has kind of stepped out of the limelight. I know I was interviewed just recently for a documentary they're doing about her. Yes, I got followed by a Twitter account for that documentary. So yes, there's something coming down the her. Yes, I got followed by a Twitter account for that documentary. So yes, there's something coming down the pipes. Yeah, so I was interviewed for that documentary,

which, you know, she ended up being so huge, being on Oprah Winfrey's network and the kind of people that she was, all the late night talk show hosts in the States and all of that. So she became quite huge. And you got her her start in media like it sounds like uh you like she says you she she was on the streets you know an advocate for you know safe sex and all this and then you put her on barometer yeah and the rest is history well that's the way it worked but is she i mean you know you don't have to obviously if it's

personal you don't say anything but i just she is out of the limelight, but she's still with us, everybody. There's no shout out to Ridley Funeral Home here. No. But do you talk to her? Sue, don't worry. There's no shout out to Ridley Funeral Home if you're listening. No, I haven't talked to her in several years. Okay, several years.

I haven't seen her in several years, since she got really big and was doing stuff in the States and everything, but, um, no, she, I love her. And it was because she was, she got in trouble for handing out condoms at, uh, uh, York mills collegiate.

And that's how she came to my attention. And because on Fridays on barometer, I was doing sex every Friday, much to my mother's horror. Um, and so that's, that's where she was discovered. was like oh she's great this is this is someone who needs to have her own show and you were right i guess so i had the air of

gary slate and said that's what this is good oh no i used to listen so i know i think it was cftr was airing like a syndicated show from dr ruth west Right. And I didn't like it because of how much more like real and raw and more authentic the Sue Johansson, a sex of Sue show was on Q107. There was no light and night and day to me. Absolutely. And she just spoke so plainly. And I think that that's why it worked so well.

And it was a time when, you know, the AIDS crisis was happening and we needed someone like her to be talking about sexuality and safe sex and all those things that were so important to that audience at the time well when I see this documentary I'll be looking for FOTM Jane Hodden there you go so we're gonna see so before we get you out of queue though I need you to uh do you have any memories of any personalities we can shout out now uh I'm just i've seen you know the photos and stuff and i've worked i personally worked with john gallagher for example who's now in halifax but any memories of these q personalities i'm thinking of like brother jake edwards who's

an fotm or uh scruff connors who's no longer with us. Any memories of these giant Q personalities? Sure. I loved Gallagher. He and I got along like a house on fire. You're not one of his conquerors. He's told me he's bedded hundreds and hundreds of women. Not me. You're not on that list.

It's okay if you are. No judgments on this program, Jane. No, no You're not on that list. It's okay if you are. No judgments on this program, Jane. No, no, no. Not at all. The thought of it. John Gallagher. Hey, listen. His number's high because he and Peter Gross had a show on my program and they compared their number. And I think Peter's number

was like nine. And then John said his number was like something like, I don't know, 678. I don't know if he said that. That sounds like something he would say for sure. But no Jane, okay. He reminded me that I had a hug station at Q107. Really? Yeah.

So I had outside my office was having a bad day. Come, I'll give you a hug. And he took advantage of that service. Of course. Yeah, because nothing's better than a good consensual hug, right? Gene Volaitis is one of my oldest and dearest friends. Tasha Sims is one

of my oldest friends. She was a jock there. Dusty Shannons, still really good friends. Who else did you mention? I think I mentioned Scruff Connors. He and I were not friends. Scruff was a very different cat. That's right.

But I felt that at the time I needed to become neutral about him so that I didn't have to deal with him in my next life. So that's what I did. Imagine. You know what? Nothing could be more exciting than in your next life bumping into Scruff Connors. That's right. And his son, he sadly passed away before this podcast

started but his son tj's been on this program and his son does a great scruff connor's impression oh that's great i mean he was funny he was talented but uh he wasn't my cup of tea well he's not everybody's cup of tea that's for sure what about uh brother jake edwards i love brother jake i will there's a great voice i love him he's got a great voice. I love him. He's got a great voice. I loved him. And I wonder if he'd be upset if I told you this story. Probably not. He's a great windsurfer or was a great windsurfer. I don't know if he still is. And so is my husband.

So I've been married for, we've been together for 42 years, married for, if I get this wrong, I get in so much trouble. 35. So we've been married for 35, together for 42. Congratulations. Thank you. So Chris Allacock, who's in the music business for, he was the music rep at, he was the rep at RCA and then at WEA. So that's how we met through Q107. But he and Jake were good buddies as we were. So they would be up at our cottage. And I remember there was one day I was really mad because the two of them took off on these wind servers and were gone for hours on Lake Simcoe

hours and so I'm with Jake's wife who I didn't know very well and she was lamenting the fact that they at that time couldn't afford to buy a house and I was like oh yes you can here's the way you do it because I had done this when I was 20 I bought my first house when I was 20 which which was that you would you'd buy the, which was that you'd buy a house with appliances, but then you'd borrow the money to buy appliances. And then you'd use that money as a down payment. Easier in that time than today. It was easier in that time, but you could in that time. And so Jake was so mad because of course, by the time he came back from windsurfing she was like she had the real estate agent lined up she was they were going to look for houses and he could go okay and i figured out the whole way that they could do it but it

worked out beautifully for them because then when he left q and went out east calgary somewhere somewhere i think somewhere west calgary i think it was then they had to move house and it turned out to be perfect for him and set him up for the future going forward with houses. Okay, so my story with Brother Jake was a great guest on Toronto Mic, but he was very upset at comments he heard from Steve Anthony, of all people.

When Steve Anthony came on Toronto Mic, he kind of went off on the champ, okay? So Brother Jake's big shtick on Q107 was The Champ. But, and Brother Jake owns this. Like, Brother Jake does not

claim he invented The Champ. Brother Jake tells you it was a McLean and McLean bit that he licensed somehow. Like,

he bought it or something. Yeah, he paid for it. But Steve Anthony came on my show and suggested that like,

he ripped off McLean and McLean and he was kind of upset at all this success he had from this, this, this character, the champ. Anyway, Brother Jake, not happy with Steve Anthony. So hopefully they patched things up. But yeah, so. Memory is a funny thing, right?

Tell me about it. It's a copy of a copy of a copy. Exactly. So things, a decade at the mighty queue, and you're there for, it sounds like a great run for you, and you're not witnessing anything that we've heard about in the news. I hate the way you keep hitting anything, because maybe there was. It couldn't have been perfect, but nothing that I remember that it sticks out that,

whoa, that's wrong, I've got to go fight for this. Yeah, nothing that you'd go to hr for no right i mean i worked in offices before i became this renegade uh rogue soldier here and uh there's always something in any office it's not a radio thing there's always going to be uh some jerk saying this someone losing their cool and yelling about that and you know and maybe even uh the odd curse word of j Jane in a workplace. I'm sure you heard a few in your time. We were all pretty potty mouth.

Okay, so why would you leave Q? What happened in 1980, I want to get the right year, 1987 that caused you to leave Q107? The suits came in. The Slates sold the station and the suits came in. And so I did the first meeting. And at that point, um,

Jean and I were, uh, I would call a shared management, uh, because I hated part of what I hated about news director was having to do budgets and all that stuff. And Jean was fine with doing that. So, uh,

we split the position. We went, went and proposed this. I became position we went proposed this i became the public affairs director and he became the news director so that he could do all that budget stuff and you know answer to ellen slade about why someone was leading with the price of gold at you know 5 30 in the morning or whatever um and so um we went into this meeting and i came out and went i don't think so gene i think they're gonna wreck it. And he's like, no, no, it's going to be great. It'll be fine. You know, we'll, we'll, you know, we'll make them understand how it all works. And, and I went, I don't know. He said, come on,

come on, come on. I said, all right, I'll do one more meeting. So then they did one more meeting where we came in and they had these full life-size cardboard cutouts of a man and a woman. And they basically said, so this is your audience. This is who you're talking to now. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. And I guess they saw the faces on a lot of us, which was like, this is so corporate. This is so not us.

You do not understand the culture. And the new program director or general manager whichever he was said uh was getting annoyed so he was like look either you're on the bus or you're off the bus because i'm the bus driver and i went ding ding ah and left the room and gene was like no no no. And I left the next day. Okay. Or within a week. I have a question.

So is it WIC? Who's this new ownership group? Okay. WIC, right. And you went to another station? Like, did you have, is this station, in this station, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't it owned by this, this is a different ownership, or is it the same ownership, the station you go to, CKFM?

No, CKFM is now owned by the Slates. Now ownership or is it the same ownership the station you go to ckfm no ckfm is now owned by the slate now okay yeah well so they bought ckfm and cfrb but when i quit i had nothing to go to okay um but i always my whole career i've always had an fu fund because you know as a woman or just as a person you always need to be able to walk away if it's not fun or if it's not good, not whatever. I'm not surprised you had an FU fund because anyone who's buying property at the age of 20 and finding a way to do that is probably going to have an FU fund. Yes, so I had an FU fund. Now, Jane, what does FU stand for?

I want to see if I can trick you into swearing. I'm sure you can figure it out yeah so i had an fu fund and my husband's like so what's gonna happen now and i'm like well i don't know we'll see wow you just walked away i walked away that's a very principled move on your part a lot of people don't have the fu fund or the uh i don't dare i say like the the courage to to leave a radio job because they don't like the management's new direction. Right. And I think that that's why I reacted so strongly

to the whole Derringer thing. It's like, oh, that was magic. We had something magic going on for that 10 years, even for the 10 years. It was just so fun and it was so creative and you could try anything, it was just so fun and it was so creative and you could try anything that it was just, I went, no, I'm not staying if the suits are coming in to do this kind of thing. Luckily, Gary Slate didn't know that I had quit. And I guess about, I think I was only out for a week, about a week. And he called me and he thought he was luring me to CKFM.

Wow. And I went to CKFM and he found out, it wasn't, it was about a month or two later that he found out that I'd actually quit and he could have gotten me for a lot cheaper. I was going to say, advantage Jane. Yep. Good leverage there. It's always, you always get more cabbage when you're leaving a gig. Yeah, absolutely.

Good for you. And you know what? I learned that from Sue Johanson because she was always so fierce about finances. So she would never allow herself to be diminished in any way because she recognized that she had something exceptional to offer. And so she needed to be paid exceptionally. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to do that too. I must have something exceptional to have hung on this long.

And yeah, so when he found out, I guess about a month or a month or two later, and then he was like, you, B. Okay. What does B stand for, Jane? And I just laughed. He said, you'd already gone. I went, yep. Okay. What does B stand for, Jane? And I just laughed. He said, you'd already gone. I went, yep. Wow. Well, you know, it's a game of chess out there.

He's playing checkers. You're playing chess here. Okay. So CKFM, which we now know today. I just so people know, what the heck is CKFM? That is now known today as Virgin Radio 99. No, is that right? Yes. Virgin 99.9. Right, right, right. So, okay. So, before I get to see KFM, can I have a chat with you? Not

so much as like a person who was at Q for 10 years, but as a person who loves radio and disappointed by the allegations against John Derringer. So, from my perspective, a guy who's never worked at radio, is it simply, might it boil down possibly to the fact that this

person was making money for the station in this morning show role and because this person made a lot of money for the station this management was willing to overlook things because the bottom line was not to be sacrificed and that was cash flow coming cash coming in the door is it simply that it's just that they were willing to turn a blind eye to some improper activities because they didn't want to jeopardize the money? Probably.

I don't know. No, you don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just wondering how that became, that we came to this point. I think, well, because radio has changed so much, it became so corporate,

right? It became a different kind of thing. So, um, it almost, and I guess that's maybe why I can say these things didn't happen at Q in the early days, because we were all in each other's pockets. We were all kind of the same age.

We were all having just a blast because of the decade that it was. Like you talked about the Waters family and then the Slate family. And this is an era in Toronto radio where you could, you could have a coffee with the owner. Oh, for sure. Like try doing that today at Virgin 99.9. All the shareholders in a room have a coffee. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. And it's, it's all about the bottom line. It's all about business. And, you know, and things got very complicated once the consultants started to come in. I mean, that certainly, when they came into CFRB, that was challenging because of, they're usually American, and they come in with different ideas about how things should be done.

And so there's always something, you know, maybe I'm just a great contrarian that I think things should be done a certain way. Jane, if you ever want to hear, if you ever want to be entertained with some anti-radio consultant, you know, dialogue, just phone up Fred Patterson or Humble Howard Glassman from Humble and Fred, because I produced their show today. Right. And oh my goodness, get that they hated the consultants that would come in and tell them how they should be doing their show.

They hated it. Yeah. I think we all did. But once you got to formulaic radio, that kind of made sense because they were trying to replicate sounds across the country or across networks or whatever. So, I mean, I understood why they were doing it, but I think that for my experience,

when they came in to do talk radio in Canada, they didn't get Canada. They didn't understand Canadians have a different sense of fair play that isn't, it doesn't matter kind of in the United States. No, great, great point. And another quick, to put a bow on that Humble and Fred analogy, a comment there, because it's coincidentally CKFM, which was Mix 99.9 after, before Virgin, it was Mix 99.9. And they actually recruited Humble and Fred from Chorus-owned Mojo 640.

We're going to get you to 640 at some point here today, but it wasn't Mojo. But okay. So Mojo 640, they get recruited and they, so basically this is standard broadcasting at the time, which owned Mix 99.9, buying the Humble and Fred show. And then Humble and Fred tell me stories about the consultants at Mix 99.9, which essentially

didn't want them to be the Humble and Fred show that was recruited. And it was basically the end of that show on terrestrial radio. And they ended up firing Fred. And then a year later, they fire Howard. And yeah, they called it Death by Consultants because they were basically 15 years of doing mornings in Toronto and basically being told, be something very different than what you have been this last 15 years. And it didn't work.

And was it still owned by the Slates at that point? Yeah. That's before Astral bought it. So I think shortly thereafter, Astral. I never knew how to say that word. I'd gone on to TV and CBC by then. So I was out of the loop for what was happening there. Okay, let's get you there. Firstly, before we get to this, because I have a clip from you on CFRB,

but please tell me how things went for you at CKFM. Well. And you don't have to rush it, but let's hear six. Because that's the part, I mean, when I think of Jane Hodden, I think Q107, I think CFRB, I think about the TV show, I think about the CBC. I actually, CKFM doesn't really pop in my mind, but I wasn't listening at the time.

So this is your chance. It was only a couple of years. I mean, it was different for me personally than professionally. It was fine professionally. It was a great talk show. It had huge numbers for the program that I forget what it was called. That's how memorable this was for you, Jane. Exactly, on CKFM.

Well, plus I just had a baby, so I went on maternity leave. I had a second baby, so I was off on maternity leave at CKFM. How long, by the way, how long did you get for maternity leave? And we're talking late 80s? Is that what we're talking about here? Yeah, so that was 88. Okay. I think I, it might only have been four months.

Okay. Maybe six months, but at full pay. Right. So that was a good negotiation. But they weren't thrilled because I just started at CKFM and then got pregnant. Right. So it wasn't ideal. But it was such a different culture to go up the street, though.

So the woman who became Lynn Pickering, who became one of my best friends and my producer at CKFM, she put in her resignation the day I was hired. It was weird, because up at Q107, I was the earth mother who fought for everybody, and then I went to CKFM, and I was the enemy. But it was more because of someone who had left the station i i hope not to make room for me but whatever i was not loved and and

plus the slates had just come in with a whole bringing in a whole different culture right to that environment as well but uh so gary talked sat lynn said, look, just go have lunch with her because I think you'll like her. And she was like, no, I'm going to quit. He's like, well, okay, but have lunch first. So we had lunch and hit it off. And so she didn't quit. And she ended up being my producer at CKFM.

And she didn't live to regret that decision. No. I don't think so. What a lunch. What a lunch. Yeah, exactly. And this is okay. So just, we mentioned Dani Elwell off the top

because she wrote that nice comment about you, but did you, she's at CKFM? Like, is she one of the people you worked with at CKFM at this time? I'm just trying to think, like, I'm trying to think, is she at, she was at CKFM, I think, before CFNY, and then I think she went back to CKFM.

Am I right? I thought she was at Q. I don't think Dani Elwell was ever at Q107. I don't think so. I don't think she did the alternative bedtime hour during the I think, was Reiner Schwarz at CKFM?

No. Okay, because he was at CFNY at this time too. I know. Was Maureen Holloway at CKFM? Yes. Okay, finally. Yes. And Ted Wallachian. Yes. okay yes so they were both there former q personality yeah so they were both there so ted was everywhere because he was also at cfny like this guy was and eventually yeah yeah of course yeah so then i started doing some stuff at cfrb while i was at ckfm okay because again down the hall right down the hall, right? Down the hall. But they were also trying to get women in there.

So I guess it was kind of the Slate's philosophy that of, in some ways it was throw Jane in to the lion's den and see how it works. So I would go in and fill in for Ed Needham, who I guess was one of the most. Just passed away. Did he? Yeah. Like within the last year,

we do have, we do a Ridley funeral home uh segment uh the seriously the first thursday of every month mark weisblatt from 1236 comes over we do three hours and we talk about all these interesting people who have passed away so i always know right when somebody of uh in toronto radio circles or beyond it passes away right so he was pretty outrageous and they had me be his fill-in host, which was insane. It was insane for me to come in to replace Ed Needham. And he was a character.

Oh, super character. And I think at some point he was living in Florida, right? And he was flying to Toronto or something to do the show. To do the show, yeah. Think about that today. That's wild. I know, crazy. So here again, I'll toot your horn for a minute jane in 1990 you became the first female talk show

host in private radio when you had your show on cfrb yeah so it's another you're like a true pioneer for your gender this is all a bunch of firsts there you go and that one i did go after so at that point, I did know that I would be the first female talk show host. And it was when, you probably know his name better than I do. It'll come to me. When he was leaving the station, and I was like, I want that. And it didn't end up being the best choice for me. Because'm better as an interviewer than a as a as a talk show host but i wanted it okay and i got it well it's very short clip very very short but this is all i could dig up but let's listen to this you're listening to the jane houghton show on cfrb 10 10 this is

the second hour of our special on child prostitution around the world so that's all i got i have some but it's better than nothing yeah exactly yeah than nothing but you do have more on cassettes we just have to digitize them actually I can only find one and it's me doing a newscast everything I had from Q107 was on reel to reel and they disintegrate and fell apart

you gotta be careful I'm not into looking back I've heard this from many a time I'll have somebody on it and i just want to talk about you know something they did like oh jim tatty is an example jim tatty doesn't want to talk about looking back he just wants to look forward and and i just want to talk about sports line in the early 90s with him and mark hemshire so i totally get that but you're you're in the wrong place i know i'm trying I'm trying, I'm trying.

But we are going to bring everyone up to speed here. Here, let me take a pause here. So you're at CFRB. So we'll talk a little more about that. I can't wait to get you to the TV show. I got some much better clips from Jane Hodden Live, which we got to talk about shortly. But I will say that, Jane, quick question.

Do you enjoy Italian food? Yes. Good answer so far. Are you enjoy Italian food? Yes. Good answer so far. Are you a vegetarian? No. Okay. I have in my freezer for you to take home with you a large meat lasagna from Palma Pasta. And I promise you when you cook this up

and you eat this, you're going to say, Mike, that is the best lasagna that's ever come from a store that I've ever had in my mouth. This is delicious. So you're leaving with that. Excellent. So thank you, Palma Pasta for sending that over for Jane Hodden. See all these boxes? They're all empty. But I just got a new fresh shipment. I said, Jane Hodden's coming over.

Palma, send over some delicious Italian food. I also have some fresh craft beer for you to bring home from Great Lakes Brewery. Delicious fresh craft beer brewed right here in southern Etobicoke. But you can find Great Lakes at LCBOs across this fine province. So that's also going home with you. Excellent. Thank you.

And a sticker. This is a Toronto Mike sticker from stickeru.com. I can't wait to find out where that ends up. But text me a photo of wherever the heck the Toronto Mike sticker you.com sticker ends up. Sticker you.com makes quality stickers. I mean, I have stickers from 10 years ago from those guys. Well, the decals behind me are actually from Sticker You.

Just quality, good stuff. You just upload your image to sticker you.com and it arrives in a matter of days. It arrives in your mailbox and they're great people too. Shout out to the Wiccan family. And last but not least, Canna Cabana will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories.

Because I'm sending you home with some beer, I'm sending you with a Canna Cabana Cozy, so you don't have to hold the cold beer in your hand. That's also going home with you, Jane. All right, thank you. All right, one more thing, because I already shouted out Ridley Funeral Home, but this home with you, Jane. All right. Thank you. All right. And one more thing, because I already shouted out Ridley Funeral Home. But this is a flashlight, Jane.

We don't want you tripping in the dark. That's courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Okay. Before we get you to Jane Hodden Live, maybe a little more on CFRB. Like, it sounded, I'm trying to, I see, I'm not a CFRB listener,

but when I think of CFRB, I, even though John Moore apparently plays it more up the middle, but I think more of like right wing, like dashboard pounding, like angry conservatism. Am I out to lunch here? What was your CFRB show like? Not that,

which made it pretty challenging, which is why I mentioned being thrown into the shark pit because really kind of known lefty, being thrown in with all the right-wingers and a woman to boot. It was like, whoa, this was a tough gig. But it didn't matter because a good story is a good story. And over the years, I have been asked to go into politics by all three parties. So clearly, I somehow managed to have one foot or something.

Well, that's the Steve Paikin move. Nobody knows where he leans. That's the whole point. You know where he leans. Well, you know where his wife leans, because she doesn't keep that a secret. Technically, and I know he's listening right now, shout out to FOTM, Steve Pagan.

We do not, I don't know, I'm going to say from the record, I don't know which way Steve Pagan leans. Do you know? You want to disclose it? No, I don't. I don't. No, he's a good interviewer, right? So if you're a good interviewer, you manage to be able to interview everybody and draw out their stories

because that's what it's all about. And that was your skill. Yeah, but it was tough. It was tough, and especially filling in for Ed Needham. I mean, that was, I don't know whether that was a cosmic joke from the Slates or whatever.

Oh, I know. Make her go replace Ed. When he passed, I was somebody, because I have a lot of contacts on radio from being on the show for 10 years, and somebody sent me a full recording of one of his shows, and I had never

heard Ed Needham on the radio, and I listened. In fact, I dropped it in the Toronto Mic feed, so you can find this in the Toronto Mic feed if you subscribe. But it was, yeah, it was remarkable to hear him in action. This was a appointment listening for a lot of people. Oh yeah, he was outrageous. They threw you in the lion's den there.

And whenever I would fill in with him, his next show, whenever he returned from vacation, would be a review of Jane Houghton. Like an after show. Yeah, what I did while he was there and what they liked and what they hated. How did Jane Houghton... Here, let me play a little bit of this.

There's a lot of things here. Just to get you in the mood, Jane. Do you recognize this music? Hi, Canada. Now you can talk to the newsmakers and have your say. This is Jane Houghton Live. This is Jane Hten Live. This is Jane Hotten Live on WTN. A little more. I'm digging it. I'm digging it.

We welcome your ideas and comments. Please write us at Jane Houghton Live, Box 115, 275 King Street East, Toronto, Ontario, M5A 1K2. Transportation services for Jane Houghton Live provided by A Touch of Class Limousine. Today, Jane's wardrobe was provided by Ms. Emma Designs. Makeup supplies for Jane Houghton Live by Knockoff Cosmetics. So obviously this was an intro and an outro stitched together, but how did Jane Houghton

Live come to be, Jane? I've been offered TV several times along the way. Some of it I wanted and didn't get, and others I was not interested at all. This pitch came along because the idea was to take what I did on radio and put it on television. So that appealed to me. And I really wanted to try have that experience of going from a warm medium to a cold medium, because radio is a warm medium, TV is a cold medium. And it's often really hard to, to make that change. But this was a partner who came forward, it would be our business, and we would do do this and put me on television. And it shouldn't have worked.

I was 40. I was a size 16. That's not the way you start in television with the kind of prejudices of image that we all know about now about women. But it did work so it was and it was on a wick station that uh jim mcdonald put together kind of cobbled together across the country at first okay and then it went to uh wtn as it was then called w it's now w but it was wtn at the time and this is your production this is you own this production company? Yes. Cool. Like that's the secret. It's just like buying a house at 20.

Yeah. Yes. Amazing. I have like, I mean, I want to hear more about it, but I got some really cool clips. Not too long, but here's just a little taste of David Crosby. When you describe what you went through in prison, we know enough from the shows we've done about heroin addiction

and cocaine addiction to just lock you in solitary it was bad it was very bad i mean you got a texas prison yeah they don't care whether you're feeling good no no hey vernon look he's throwing up again hey rock star how you feel now okay so you can you can do the davidrosby chat, and then you could also do some more serious fare here. Now, the last time we talked, you had said that you didn't discuss with your children about your husband being in jail. Is that something you talk about now? I do, because ever since we discussed it, I felt rather bad. So I went back to them, and I told them, I said, do you want to ask me questions about your father? And they said no. And I said, don do you want to ask me questions about your father? And they said, no.

And I said, don't you want to know why he's in jail? They said, well, you already told us that sometimes people have to go to jail because the government doesn't like them. And Jane, who are we talking to there? Benazir Bhutto. Wow. The late Benazir Bhutto. The late Benazir Bhutto. Who was assassinated.

Right. Right. And yeah, in fact, you had mean there's so there's a great like full-length interview on youtube uh that one i only have a short clip but with somebody who i wanted to get on this program so just a little more uh nostalgia here let's listen to them That you'll always be my superstition You're the one condition that I've been waiting for Hello, I'm Jane Houghton. That's Tell Me, Corey Hart's newest single. It's number seven on the pop adult radio charts,

and it's the second song released off his new CD. This is his first album in six years. Corey Hart skyrocketed to fame in the early 80s with the release of First Offense. He gave us a string of hits, Sunglasses at Night, It Ain't Enough, Never Surrender, and he became a teen idol. He went on to sell over 10 million records and had nine U.S. Top 40 hits. He had everything, fame, money, sold-out concerts, adoring fans. But he says it was a blessing and a curse, and it took him a long time to find his way

back but he has and his self-titled cd has already gone gold in canada and it's been getting rave reviews joining us now is cory hart welcome back what an introduction nice to see you again thank you so how does all of this feel the water's good i the return. Ten years since you performed, six years? Well, I just completed my first tour, like you mentioned. Jane, what are the odds that one day maybe Corey Hart will also visit my basement? What would be the betting odds on that? Probably, he likes to talk. All right, Corey, if you're listening, let's make this happen here.

Tell me, looking back, what are your memories, what are your thoughts about Jane Hot and Live I think that in the first took about three or four months but for me because everybody has different goals right my goal was to see whether

I could make TV warm and when because it was a Larry King style interview with Colin, you'd hear lots of opinions by the time the hour was finished. And there was, I can't remember what the show was, but whatever the woman was saying, she stopped mid-comment on her, don't make that face at me. I know what that face means.

And I instantly went, I've broken through. She feels like she knows me, right? She knows me well enough that she knows that face I'm making. She knows what it means in reaction to her comment. And to me, that was like, okay, this has worked. Wow. Now for the great unwashed out there, of whom i may be one as well now can you describe like explain what you mean when you talk about cold and warm right so when people listen to

the radio they feel they really feel like they know the people so that they're listening to you on the radio they they have a they have an idea that you because you're coming into their home right right and they don't have a sense of what you look like. They just hear the voice. They become friends with you. You become a friendly, a sound every day. Television is different. Television, you get in the way of, you know, the makeup and the hair and the image and all of those kinds of things. And plus you've got a screen between you that just separates. And so it takes a long time. And it doesn't always work to break through so that people feel like they're coming

into your house. Gotcha. Yeah, you're right about the broadcasting, if you will, because it's now it's not just radio, it's also podcasting. But it's like, you know, you'll spend somebody will, I don't know, go on a road trip, I got to go to Ottawa this weekend or whatever. And then you're in the car with them for their road trip. And it's a, you know, that's a whole different, you know, this voice in your car with you. Yeah. You, you become, it becomes a friendly and warm. You're right.

Absolutely. And, and I was a bit worried also because I was hidden in radio. I had anonymity. And then when I went, I was still doing radio. I had anonymity. And then when I went, I was still doing radio, but now I'd gone to TV. And people thought, oh, I thought you were little and blonde, probably because I'm mouthy.

But I'm blonde now, but it's only because it's much easier to cover the gray with blonde than with dark hair. I should go blonde, Jane. There you go. And so that was, that was a worry and, but whatever. No, but very interesting because you did reference,

you said you were 40 and a size 16. Yeah, yeah. And, so if I'm, it sounds like you were worried, yeah, you were worried, oh, they hear me on the radio

and they think I'm 25 and a size 6 or something. Right, exactly. I don't even know how sizes work. Yeah, exactly. Okay. That kind of thing. But I mean, I'm just going to throw a name at you

that you mentioned earlier, but what the most popular talk show host that we know of on this continent is Oprah Winfrey, right? And there's been Oprah, well, she's run the gamut, I suppose. But I think she might have come after Jane. I don't know what the timing is, but at the time.

Yeah, but she was an 80s pop. I know that when the the timing is, but at the time. Yeah, but she was in the 80s. I know that when the Phil Donahue thing was going on. Right, that's true. Yeah, so she was big in the 80s as well. That's true. But good for you because here is how big the Jane Hodden show became, Jane Hodden Live. Let me play this parody here.

Alice from New Market, go ahead, Alice. What you doing to Jane? I haven't done anything to her, ma'am. I'm doing her a favor. She has the flu, and I'm filling in. When is Jane coming back? When she's feeling better. Can you say hello to her for me?

Yes. Jane is great. She's the best. What'd you do to her, you son of a bitch? Look, folks. I'm not replacing Jane, okay? I think she's great too. She really is.

My name is Frank Ash, okay? I'm just filling in for Jane. Now come on, people. Someone must have a question for Nelson freaking Mandela. So when this hour is 22 minutes is doing a parody of you, you've hit the big time, Jane. And I had no idea. So it was on 22 minutes.

Someone called me, said, quick, quick, turn on the TV. I had no idea they were doing this. I knew that they liked the show. They'd all come on. And they replicated my set. Yes. So it was completely out of the blue. It was fabulous.

And I was terrified when i heard it was on 22 minutes because usually they make fun of you yeah yeah that was a very uh complimentary that was that was a good one it was very cool that's fun it was very cool for the highlight reel so great all right now when i started this program 10 years ago uh i think i sucked but then i worked really hard to get better and who knows maybe i'm almost now. But I always felt like I was going to do my homework. Like I'm not going to have a Jane Hodden in my basement unless I've done my homework. That's why we've got these clips. I've done my homework.

But I modeled that because I grew up watching Brian Linehan on City TV. Your production company not only brought us the Jane Hodden show, but you guys, sort of like the Brian Linehan comeback was a Jane Hodden show, but you guys, sort of like the Brian Linehan comeback was a Jane Hodden production. Yes. Yeah. I need to know because another one of those guests I'll never have on because he passed away too soon.

What was Brian Linehan like to work with? He was challenging, you know, but talented people tend to be challenging. And he was the best of the best of that field. So he was challenging. And my then business partner and I took turns managing him. I'll just put it that way. Loved him to death, but difficult.

Of course, that's fair. Now, do you have any insight into, you know, why this comeback wasn't a City TV production? Like what happened with Brian and City TV, where I used to watch him all those years ago? I think they had so many episodes. You know, it becomes a numbers game, right, in television, that once you've got so many episodes

and they had hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands, I don't remember, that they could put into syndication, then they wouldn't be interested in the expense of continuing to do it. FOTM Adam Goro has the same problem with Cash Cab. They have so many episodes in the can, they keep rerunning, they don't need to create new ones.

This is working against him as well. Now, Brian Linehan, who I mentioned, was everywhere and you were producing his comeback attempt. But that last decade of his life, he seemed to fade away, Brian Linehan, in the sense that out of the limelight and yeah, just wanted to shout him out because I saw how he did his homework and I saw how his guests respected that uh that research and i figured hey i'll try to maybe uh have a little brian line of hand in my uh in my podcast but the internet came along really just made it easier well but not for him no so he had yeah because he had huge rooms full of files on everyone he's ever interviewed.

And so that once he realized that so many people could access his old interviews, other interviews and get that kind of information. And update the Wikipedia page. It was terrible. It was devastating for him. And it was devastating when the show was canceled too. Yeah. It was devastating.

I can imagine. Again, we lost Brian far too soon. Challenging, but talented, talented, talented. Again, we lost Brian far too soon. Challenging, but... Talented, talented, talented. Talented mofo. Yeah.

Speaking of talented mofos, you mentioned him earlier, but you mentioned Gene Valaitis because you worked with him at Q107, but you worked with him also at 640. I did. Tell me a bit about that. I'm trying to find out where does that happen? Is this after the TV show? Is it concurrent with the TV show?

It's concurrent with the tv show it's concurrent with the tv show so i was at cfrb and um uh am 6 40 came after me to um come and do the morning show with gene and so maybe this is why i don't like going back because it's therapeutic, Jane. Yeah, I guess so. Um, so I felt that going into television as a woman who's 40 and a size 16 was risky. I've always been the major breadwinner for our family. So I didn't want to give up radio. Um, and I didn't think that Gary was likely to share. didn't think that Gary was likely to share. Uh, so I accepted the offer to go to the morning show at, uh, at, um, talk six 40. It was hardest thing I ever did to be doing a live TV show. Plus a live morning show was, I don't know how Marilyn Dennis does it, how she's done it all these years. I have no idea. It was, Oh, it was awful. It was just so, so hard to do. But I also, we call our house the house that Talk 640 bought, right? When someone comes after you, that's when you get the big bucks.

Look, you know, everyone has a price, right? Yep. And was Gene, was your co-host there? Yes. So it was the two of us doing the morning show together. And so that was fun to be back with him again because we had, we had, he always called the, when he and I did barometer together, the therapy sessions, because when the tape was running, we would just, you know, do therapy on each other.

And so, yeah. Jean's been on the program a couple of times. Once solo and once with Jesse Dillon is, of course, Jesse and Jean show. Shout out to the, they still have a Dillon. Right. Of course, Jesse and Jean show. Shout out to the, they still have a podcast actually. Yes. And why does it end for you at 640? I think because once Jane Haughton Live was successful,

oh, I know, I know why. Because CBC came after me. And Andy Barry, ever since he left CFRB, kept going, you need to be at CBC. You need to be at CBC. So the Talk 640 was, I was doing it. First, I was doing the morning show. So I was going in live, you know, being limoed in there and then limoed back to the show and catching a nap when I could and putting this all together. And then I did a show that was later, not the morning show. I think it was some time around midday before Jane Haughton Live. So it must have been like at 11 or something. And I did it from our own studio. So I did that for a while. Is that called Citizen Q?

No. Okay, what's Citizen Q? Only because I got a note from a Diane who just said, Citizen Q, Gene Volaitis Jane Hodden, great radio. Hmm. I think Citizen Q, well, I think that was the stuff where we used to go to the streets and ask their opinion on stuff. I probably hosted that, but I was never out on the street.

When you've done as much as you, Jane, we're going to mix up a few details. Exactly. Lots going on here. Okay, so we're going to get to the CBC. Yeah, whatever. But you mentioned Andy Barry. Yes. And I used to listen to Andy Barry hosting Metro Morning.

And I have a little clip of Andy Barry talking about you. Jane, we first got to know each other when women in broadcasting doing interviews were really the exception. And now they've become more than, I 50% the rule and I think people like you are responsible for that. Congratulations. I can't think of anyone else who deserves this prize more. Now what's he talking about everybody? This is the Rosalie Trombley, she passed away recently

too actually, Rosalie Trombley Trailblazer Award honoring Canadian women in broadcasting. You were given that award in 2007. Yes. Congratulations. Jane Harden. Thanks. given that award in 2007. Yes. Congratulations, Jane Harden. Thanks. That's a big deal.

Now, tell me a little bit, if you don't mind, about at the CBC. You were on all these big shows, like Metro Morning, Here and Now, As It Happens. These are the big CBC Radio 1 shows. Right, so I filled in all over the place, which suited me so that I had, I always wanted to keep, I love radios, right? So I never, even when I went to TV, I still loved radio, didn't want to give it up. And so this let me keep

my hand into radio. And I just was the fill-in host all over the place. And at one point, when I came back to CFRB, I was actually doing CBC and CFRB at the same time. How they let me do that, I have no idea. Yeah, that's unique. I'm trying to think of a comparable. There isn't one. There isn't one. I was just like, I can't believe I'm getting away with this,

but I'm going to keep doing it until someone says I can't. Because I was doing the, it was with, who's the guy? Who's the guy who was really religious and now isn't really religious? Oh, Michael Korn. Thank you. Michael Korn. And he can't decide what he is. He was Jewish and he was Catholic.

And now he's some other Christian. I don't know what he is now. He's something else. Shout out to Michael Korn. Right. So it was a, Gary said, okay, you got to come back. You've got to come back at some point. I said, well, you got to come back. You've got to come back at some point. I said, well, I'm at CBC.

And I said, the only way it could work is when I'm filling in on Metro Morning, I'd have to, I'd have to do this. It was a roundtable, opinion roundtable thing. I'd have to do it from CBC. And he was like, fine. I was like, okay. And so, and that CBC agreed, that CFRB agreed. CBC felt that it was two different audiences, so they weren't concerned.

They're right. In the Venn diagram, it really is. And CFRB felt the same. So I was like, okay. You got to find that guy in the middle of the Venn diagram. That's right. The CBC listeners and the CFRB listeners. Absolutely.

I know where I am on that diagram. But okay, I digress. So I can't wait to get you to March 2014 because this is a mind blow for people who are wondering what you've been up to lately. But just on our way there, these are really quick hits here. But little things I learned in my Brian Linehan-esque

research of what's going on with Jane Hodden. But you've been working producing programming for Aboriginal People's Television Network. Yes. Give us a little taste of what that's about. So I created, I wanted to travel, and my husband tends to be kind of a five-star traveler,

and I'm not, and you can't go as many places if you do five-star, right? So I created a show called Road Scholars, which was, it happened, it came out the same year as survivor. So it was one of the first, one of those, uh, what do we call those travel reality things? Yeah. Like a reality show, but it was a positive reality show where we would take teenagers and put them into programs that existed around the world. So you could go to Galapagos and study, uh, um, chemistry or biology. And, um, and so the, the concept behind it was

that you would put, um, you would, we would pick a host, put them into that group. They would take a video camera and use it as a digital diary. We would come in for a few days and, uh, turn that into a half hour documentary about their experience in this unusual place. What was your, what was the question? Uh, Aboriginal people. Oh yes. Oh yes. Okay.

So then, um, I did, uh, 18 episodes of that, that I created for YTV and then, uh, APTN wanted it in the early days, but it was kind of an expensive show.

So I did, uh, a one-off for them called Inuit adventure Africa, where I took six, six kids from Nunavut to Botswana and did a documentary about their experience. And then when they could afford it, I did six episodes for APTN of road scholars

where I took indigenous people from certain areas and put them somewhere else in the world with another indigenous group. So a health sick student down to Peru with the Inca, that kind of thing, or the Mayan. And then... And I want to tell people how you spell road in Road Scholar, because obviously

it's a play on words here, but it's actually spelled like the street, R-O-A-D. Yes, not roads scholar, road scholars. As Steve Bacon told us last week about John Turner was a road scholar. There's a fun fact. And then they asked me to... As Steve Paikin told us last week about John Turner was a Rhodes Scholar. There's a fun fact. There you go. And then they asked me to, they put out a call for an after-school program for teenagers.

So I did 76 episodes, I think, of an after-school program for Aboriginal teens. It was for, by, and about Aboriginal teens. It was all about Aboriginal teens because both my kids went to a performing arts high school. And there were all these phenomenal kids that I wanted to make use of who were so talented. Well, I'm glad you mentioned your two kids because they were also involved in the program, right? Road Scholar. Yes. So Amber hosted the episode in Kenya when she was, I think, 16. And then she hosted the next summer of the episode in Thailand. And then the next summer she was too old. She wasn't a high school student

anymore. So I took her with me and taught her how to produce in Belize and then sent her to the British Virgin Islands to produce that episode because I don't really like boats. And it was the whole summer on a boat. So and then Skylar hosted. Skylar was then old enough because he's five years younger. And I sent him he first first, he carried cameras for us through Europe. And then I sent him to Martinique to host that episode. Where does the name Skylar come from? Just curious. Like,

where did that name come from? So in high school, one of my good friends was Skylar Gilbert, who is the famous playwright. And we went to high school together and I always loved the name Skylar. So there you go. Okay. Now we have Skylar Gilbert, who is the famous playwright. And we went to high school together, and I always loved the name Skylar. There you go. Okay, now we know Skylar. And does Amber have an interesting origin story for Amber?

Amber, my husband and I, we had called her Amy from the time I got pregnant. Right, conception. Yeah, and it was a girl, and I called her Amy. And about two weeks before she was born, we both dreamt on the same night, not the same dream, but the same message. Mine was very clear. Mine was a little girl with this long curly hair with her hands on her hip saying, my name's not Ambie, not Amy. My name is

Amber. Wow. Yeah. And then Chris had a similar dream, totally not that story. But I woke up in the morning. I said, I had the strangest dream. He goes, Amber, right? And he'd had a dream. And I said, yeah, I guess her name is Amber. That's wild. So he called her Amber. Okay, that's wild.

You get a message from beyond, I suppose. Okay. Or from Amber. Or from Amber. Get it right. It's not Amy. Okay, that's cool. I'm glad I stumbled on those stories.

Okay. So now, before we find out what happens to you in March 2014, I'm just going to take you back to 2009. We're almost there, Jane. You're doing great here. But you were hired to do media training for the Canadian military? Yes. So that was Lynn Pickering, who was my producer at CKFM,

who became my lifelong friend. She moved to Picton, got hired to do this. So Pickering moved to Picton. Pickering moved to Picton, exactly. Not Pickering. And so she got hired to do this. So Pickering moved to Picton. Pickering moved to Picton, exactly. Not Pickering. And so she got hired to do this work. And they needed someone to come in and play a reporter in the simulated training that they do for the military when they go to Afghanistan. Okay.

And when they brought me in, what they actually needed more was a vehicle for the information. So we created this sort of daily TV show as part of their simulated training. And it was the most fascinating work I ever did. And then they hired Chris and I, my husband and I, because he's been a publicist for 35 years, to go in to train the generals, the generals teams, there were four of them, to train them.

Because one of the problems in the past had been was that they couldn't necessarily get everybody to buy into the idea that they needed to have this media training as part of their simulation. But if you remember, the media were embedded with the forces in Afghanistan. So they had to learn how to deal with media. And so they hired us separately to do that training for the general. And then he would come into the simulated training and he's already bought into the idea. Wow.

Yeah. Then I got hired to do the same thing for NATO in Paris, in Lille, near Paris and Germany. Okay. So I think that's a bit of a mind blow to learn. You were doing media training for the Canadian military, but then in 2014, and Mike's going to do quick math, so we're talking about eight and a half years ago approximately, you were appointed to the Ontario Court of Justice

as a Justice of the Peace. Yes. So how does that happen and what do you do there? What's going on? Are you marrying people? What the heck are you doing there? No, marrying people is the one unpaid function that you have as a just of the peace. So a just of the peace does bail, does 95% of the bail.

So we do all bail except murder and terrorism. We do bail, search warrants. We do all the provincial offenses. Wow. And I cannot answer well i don't have any specific questions for you except i wanted to know like how you get like you just appointed because you wanted to be a lawyer way back when i applied i did apply and then it's an appointment from the attorney general and it's the one it's a function in canada based on the

british system where you don't have to be a lawyer in order to have this position. They're looking for people that are strong, I guess, have a good reputation, aren't likely to be influenced, that kind of thing. Okay. And so you're actively doing this still in 2022? Yes. Okay. All right. Okay.

So again, no specific questions questions i know you can't talk about it but you know you're that's why i'm not swearing as well because you're not allowed to swear if you're justice of the peace you know it's not appropriate what other fun things can't you do okay uh now listen we're i just got a like a late-breaking uh twitter question i'm going to ask it here it's's from Ken Friedman. He wants to know, what was Wayne McLean like? He was fun.

He was lots of fun. And that's the name. That's who I replaced. When Wayne McLean left. That's the name. Yeah, that's the name. That's the one. That's where I came.

So thank you, Ken. I want to be a talk show host. Jane, amazing. Okay, so that Rosalie Tremblay Award, by the way, is that like a trophy what is that is that a is that like when you get the order of canada you've got some kind of a pin what do you got there um it's a glass you know a glass trophy thing and where is it right now

uh where do you have it on display somewhere you're very you should be very proud of that award where is that you're wondering somewhere down the basement it's funny because at noon today coming in down here is a guy who just got appointed the Order of Canada, Donovan Bailey. Oh, Donovan Bailey. Yeah, he's here at noon. If you stick around. I love Donovan Bailey.

He did Jane Haughton Live as the first interview when he won. And it really made the guys at TSN and other places. Pissed off. Yeah. Because you had it. Okay. Because we'd had him on several times and he had agreed that if he won,

and I remember the most challenging thing was we had to buy the footage and it was so expensive to buy the footage from CBC that we bought 60 seconds because that's all we could afford to buy. Well, luckily the race is only 10 seconds. There you go. Maybe it was only 10 seconds. Yeah, because when you... No, because we had to buy. Well, luckily the race is only 10 seconds. There you go.

Maybe it was only 10 seconds. Yeah, because when you... No, because we had to buy the start and the finish. Okay, and that comes with, when you buy that, I'm curious, it comes with the Don Whitman call, right? Like it's not like you just buy, you get the audio too, right? You get the whole thing.

Okay, well that call, the late great Don Whitman, that call of the gold medal, which was world record at the time, Donovan Bailey, 96 Atlanta Olympics. That call is amazing. And the next Saturday, Donovan, he

runs the anchor leg for the 4x100 meter relay and wins gold. And Don's got that, you know, something about Saturday nights in Atlanta. Great call, too. And just a great moment. Yeah. So I produce his podcast, Donovan Bailey's. It's called Running Things. And he comes here with Jason Portwondo once a week and records down here so he's here at noon but jane

i'm you're here now and yeah is there anything that you were thinking like on your drive here you're like oh i gotta remember to uh tell mike this or i wanted to say that i don't want you to be driving home and saying oh i forgot to mention this that or the other the uh the one thing i want to say is about i want i just wanted to do a comparison between being at q107 when that was happening and being at cfrb when that was happening okay because cfrb went all talk um with the persian gulf war right so in both and i know they're so extreme they're such different environments, but those two, they both felt like such important places to be at that time. So with what Q was happening, with breaking through with women and the music and all of that and the change in the tone.

And that was the same thing at CFRB to suddenly being a full talk station on such a heritage station to make that turn to be all talk at the Persian Gulf. I feel very privileged that I got to be in those two places at those two times. And that's how you get the Rosalie Tremblay Trailblazer Award honoring Canadian women in broadcasting. Long title, but a great award. That's how you get it because you're a pioneer. You're a pioneer in this country. And I'm so glad you made the trip and made your Toronto Mike debut. Thank you. It's been fun.

In fact, I'm thinking before you leave, right? So you have this great Toronto Star article with you on it. And it says, Jane Hodden, the talk of the town. And it talks about CFRB host is burning up airwaves with her call-in interview show. And I was thinking you pose with this beside that picture on the wall where it says, I'm the talk of the town, the Toronto Star. So I replaced you as the talk of the town.

There you go. The two Toronto Star talks of the town. Love it. Love it so much. That was amazing. And that brings us to the end of our 1119th show you can follow me on twitter

I'm at Toronto Mike Jane are you on twitter yeah do you remember any of these you know why I don't do that now because now that you're justice of the peace it's not appropriate anymore

you just learned everything you want to know about Jane. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. I got to get a case for the beers you're taking home with you. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. I do have that lasagna for you in the freezer upstairs. Sticker U is at Sticker U. You've got your Toronto Mike sticker. Electronic Products Recycling Association are at EPRA underscore Canada.

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when Stu Stone and Cam Gordon come over for another edition of Toast. That will be live at live.torontomike.com. See you all then. eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you

But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow won't stay today We'll be right back. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day

But I wonder who Yeah, I wonder who Maybe the one who doesn't realize There's a thousand shades of gray Cause I know that's true Yes, I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true, yeah. I know it's true. How about you?

I'm picking up trash and then putting down roads. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes. And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can. And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold

But the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine And and it's just like mine. And it won't go away, because everything is rosy and gray. Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in Spain. And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true

Because everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Because everything is rosy now, everything is rosy Yeah, everything is rosy now everything is rosy and everything is rosy and great