Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jay Semko from The Northern Pikes: Toronto Mike'd #707

Episode Date: August 17, 2020

Mike chats with Jay Semko about The Northern Pikes origin story, getting signed by Virgin, their radio and video hits, his work on Due South and other films and television shows as well as the new film The Things I Do For Money.

Welcome to episode 707 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Garbage Day, weekly reminders for garbage, recycling, and yard waste pickup. Visit GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike to sign up now. StickerU.com, create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group, they love helping buyers find their dream home.

Text Toronto Mike to 59559. Pumpkins After Dark. Save 10% with the promo code Toronto Mike at pumpkinsafterdark.com. And Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is the Northern Pikes primary singer, songwriter and bassist, Jay Semko. Hello, Jay. Welcome to Toronto Mike.

Hey, Mike. Great to be here. Great to be chatting with you today. Where in the country do we find you today? You find me in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, sort of near the geographical center of Canada, although I think Winnipeg is actually the geographical center, but it's very warm here today. We're supposed to go to 34 degrees. Actually, the next few days are going to be in the mid-30s, and that's okay because it's summer. I'm sure by the middle of November in Saskatchewan,

we'll be going, boy, I kind of miss that hot weather. Is that part of my ignorance? Is that normal at this time of year in Saskatchewan? Is it normal to be 35 degrees? It's more normal to have that in July, you know, but sometimes you do get hot streaks in August, but usually, I mean, I like August. It's my favorite month because what happens is even if it gets to 30 in the day, it's going to go down to like 10 or 12 at night. So it kind of cools down. I like the cooler evening. So I don't feel like you're completely roasting for 24 hours, you know. You know, you're a Saskatchewan man here. So I'm

going to just ask you about something that I'm curious about, because I was just reading the news before we jumped on this Zoom call. And I read that the CFL was canceling the season. So no CFL this season. So firstly, I want to say my condolences to your province there, because I know how important the Rough Riders are to Saskatchewan. And where I'm going with this is it ticks me off as a Torontonian that this news,

which I was reading and I was reading the responses, it's being met with what I would call great indifference in my home city here of Toronto. Like a lot of like general apathy, like whatever. But I always, I don't like that particularly because it's sort of, it doesn't surprise me that the rest of the country would kind of look

at that reaction to this institution. And no wonder the rest of the country seems to dislike Toronto. So I just wondered, uh, what are your thoughts on the CFL being canceled considering you're there in Saskatoon right now? Well, first of all, I really like Toronto, regardless of whether, whether they're excited about the season or not. I've, I lived there for many years and, And, but you know, the riders,

Saskatchewan Rough Riders are a pretty big deal here. They are the, you know, the only really major sports, professional sports team that we have. They have other sports. They have sort of, we have professional basketball and lacrosse and things like that. So I can't say that they're the only game in town,

but they very much are a unifying factor in the province. And people will drive from – and Saskatchewan's a big province, as is Ontario. People will drive many, many hours to go to Saskatchewan Rough Riders football games. And, yeah, it's sort of one of those things where, well, hey, we're all making this up as we go along right now. So I guess we just have to see

see what happens but you know the Norman Pikes have a bit of a history we've played we've played sort of uh pre-game shows for the northern or for the uh for the Rough Riders in Regina and in Calgary and one post game one which I don't think we do again because they lost and it's it's always better to play before when everybody's re-repped. And, you know, last summer we did, they had a concert series going on through the CFL season. And we ended up playing the halftime show in Calgary. But that wasn't a rider game. That was Calgary versus Toronto, I think, actually,

was who played that game. But, yeah, you know, they've been very good. And it's kind of sad to see the season will go. But at the same time, man, I'm even amazed with all the sports that are being resurrected, you know, as it is. And fingers crossed that everybody stays safe and that nothing big happens as a result of that.

And I guess we'll just, like I say, we're all kind of figuring it out as we go. No doubt, no doubt. So here's hoping the CFL returns for 2021. Let's cross our fingers on that one. You mentioned the Pikes, the Northern Pikes. By the way, long time fan, first time caller. Can I just say that right off the top here? Thanks. Would you mind giving us, you know, with superheroes, I always like the origin story.

Could you share with us, probably for the millionth time, would you share with me the Northern Pikes origin story? The origin story. Holy smokes. Okay. Well, myself, I played in a number of bands through high school, I guess, and then ended up connecting with, not connecting, we were buddies all along. I mean, we both moved into the city from the country, Merle Brick and myself. And so the first time I met Merle, we were in grade eight at Greystone Heights School,

and then we both went to high school at Evan Hardy Collegiate. And I guess I played in bands through the high school years, played bass, and guitar, and then got out of high school, went to university for a year, ended up forming a band called The Idols, and that was with Merle. And we were kind of the precursor, I guess, to the Northern Pikes because we went through a number of personnel changes, started writing our own songs while we were in that band. We were billed as Saskatchewan's first new wave band. This is 1979. And so we played a lot of covers,

relatively obscure covers of British groups and that kind of thing. Anyway, the Idols continued on, I guess, until 83. I left the band in 82, and then I got into another band called Seven Time Below. And the interest in that... Oh, would you read... Sorry sorry jay would you say the name again your uh internet warbled just as you were giving the name i'm sorry that that band is called was called 17 envelope and it uh it had robin billington and al edgar and myself and johnny

sinclair johnny sinclairinclair and his wife, Leslie, were a part of the Pursuit of Happiness and then Universal Honey. And now they have a new band that's just releasing a new record right away called Tucker Lane. Anyway, sort of interesting how that all kind of melds. Anyway, that band ended up breaking up.

I guess really one of our buddies that was in the Idols, I guess in January of 1984, his name was Neil Morgan, and he was playing in another group, and they were traveling across Western Canada, and it was in January. They got in a car accident. It was a big tragedy at the time in early 1984,

and Neil and two of the other members of the band died in this car accident. And we had, we had thought about doing a new band. I had, I had played with Brian Potvin and with Don Schmidt. Don was in the, in the idols. And so Brian and I, essentially we're, we both quit university together. That was in November of 1983. We were both going after having not gone for

a little while and trying working at various you know jobs trying a bunch of different things and we played in a couple bands together and thought let's make this new band and we'll try and learn from our mistakes with all the other bands that we had previously and and so really once Neil passed away you know the Don and Merle and and I were pallbearers at his funeral. And I mean, I remember getting together like the next day with Merle and Brian and Donnie at that time wasn't available to be in a full-time band. And, you know, we got together and we got together with a couple of other friends and said, let's make a new band.

This is, you know, let's move forward. Let's use the mistakes that we've made in the past and learn from those and try and make a new group. So, so what we did is we talked to our agent Robert Hodgins and said, can you, can you book us onto the, uh, onto the, the bar circuit in Western Canada. And back in those days you would do, you could do three nights in a row, like a front three or a back three, or the full week for the full six days in bars. And you'll, you could do three nights in a row, like a front three or a back three, or the full six days in bars.

And you play covers. So we learned covers. We were never a good cover band. The timing for our style of music, we were pretty twangy for a lot of the covers that were going on at that time. But we needed a name. I remember our agent booked us a gig in Estevan, Saskatchewan, and he said, you know, we needed a name I remember our agent booked us a gig in Estevan Saskatchewan and he said you know I need we need a name so I remember Merle and uh Brian and I all went to

a local bar and hung out there for a number of hours throwing ideas together wrote them down and then the next day the one that seemed to stick was the Northern Pikes even though we were we were convinced well we'll just use that for now until we find a better one. That's what it was. But we liked the aspect of Northern. We were ready to embrace our Canadianism at that time with the Northern Pikes. And that's really how the band began. We went out and did bars. We did the circuit out there playing crappy versions of cover songs and sneaking a lot of our own in and the nice thing is we were very young at the time still I mean I was 23 when the Northern Pikes started and but I had been playing in bands really since

my mid-teens and that was the same with all of us so really we were very experienced we'd had a lot of we'd done a lot of road work already we We had done a lot of recording already. We had a buddy by the name of Mitch Barnett. He's still a good friend. He lives on the west coast of Canada now, but he was the recording engineer at a place called Studio West at Pike Lake. That's a real place, Pike Lake, Saskatchewan. And Mitch would sometimes kind of sneak us out or arrange for us to get good, relatively inexpensive deals to go in and cut demos. And we recorded two independent albums. One came out in 1984, a six-song EP just called The Northern Pikes. And then the next one came out about a year later, and that was called Seen in North America. And with both those, we mailed them out everywhere possible to all college and indie radio stations in Canada and the US. And we sort of made a transition between late 84 and 85, where we really got sick of playing cover songs. We were starting to get some really good airplay

across North America. And record labels were starting to get some really good airplay across North America and late record labels were starting to become interested in us and we decided we would be a truly original group and and get rid of the covers and get off the circuit and I don't I don't want to denigrate the circuit in any way because it really helps you develop to be a band and I feel like we were very fortunate the fact that you could you could play every night and in many of the places you could rehearse during the day too and we were always a band that really liked to rehearse a lot and so we put a lot of work in it we just we just kept going and things started to happen but I mean it was really we were an

indie group when a lot of bands really weren't indie groups and we did see it was it was easy to get sucked into the the sort of the vortex of enjoying being paid regularly for work we stuck we stuck all our money most of it back into the kitty to cover our recording because we realized we lived in a somewhat remote area and the way for us to get noticed was to record good songs and try and put them out there and that's what we tried to do you know well us to get noticed was to record good songs and try and put them out there. And that's what we tried to do. Well, you know, get noticed. I mean, it's tough enough to get noticed when you're a band in, you know, in Canada coming out of Toronto or whatever, but you know,

in Saskatchewan at that time, like how, how did you get noticed? Cause of course, blue, blue, big blue sky in 87, I'm going to play a couple of cuts from big blue sky in a moment actually but that's a virgin releases that right yes well what ended up happening was i guess we started getting labels actually flying out to see us we had never played in toronto we were always in the west you know we were from basically manitoba to out to the west coast of vancouver and victoria and uh and we got involved with uh

a recording engineer at that time by the name of fraser hill fraser hill it was uh he had a he was a recording engineer producer who worked with tom cochran and red Rider among others and his partner recording engineer partner was Rick Hutt and Fraser was also buddies with a guy named Ed Smeal who was at the agency in Toronto and our friend Robert Hodgins and Saskatoon had you know mailed our indie records out to various people or at least the first one and Fraser was hooked he liked he liked the band he liked the sound of the band and and really wanted to produce a record with us so ultimately his whole goal was to get assigned to a record deal because in those days that's really was pretty important to to get signed to a record

deal because there we didn't have the indie the indie world that exists now the network and all that stuff just did not exist on the level that it does now. Although, you know, there were bands putting out some independent records along the way, and I can look at, like, our peers in Grapes of Wrath and many other groups, actually. I remember seeing Moe Berg from TPOH in a couple of different bands before.

I remember too. Before TPOH even happened, you know, there was Modern Minds and Troc 59. Troc 59 was a cool band. Anyway, there was a bunch of those things kind of going on. So Doug Chappelle from Virgin Records, he heard some stuff that we had done. And what we were doing, in addition to the indie records that we did, we were recording demos and sending them out on, you know, audio cassettes.

And Fraser started working with us in a pseudo management uh position I guess and because he wanted the band to get signed to a record deal and he wanted to produce us so he started hustling around at the same time as we were putting out our our second uh album in 85. Doug Chappelle from Virgin really liked what he was hearing in regards to the demos and the indie records that we did. And he flew out to see us play in September of 85 in Saskatoon. And we had had numerous people actually come out to see us, but Doug actually came and talked to us and he was really cool guy.

He was like the coolest guy in the world. And it was obviously really into the music happening. And so he started following us and following what we were doing and staying in touch. We kept recording more demos. We demoed, I think, before we actually signed with Virgin Records, I think we had demoed about 70 songs. So we had recorded a lot, you know, in addition to the independent albums that we were releasing and, and Don Schmidt, see Donnie, when Doug first saw us, the lineup that was there was Brian, Merle, myself, and Don,

which became the final lineup for the Northern Pikes. But Don was really just filling in for that gig. He couldn't play with us all the time. And we were kind of a revolving door of drummers and And we played with some really good players, with some great players. But Donnie, it always just felt like he was going to be the right guy. And one thing I'll say with Don is he's the best drummer I've played with in regards to understanding songs and the vibe of songs and the arrangement of songs and the feel. And as I say, we played with a lot of really good technical drummers,

but in terms of just getting what our songs were and the direction that we were going, which was kind of different. I mean, we were really kind of a combination of sort of a, a new wave group meets this kind of country rock thing to a certain extent as well. And with a little bit of kind of stuff going on, on you know as in some of Brian's guitar stuff which was reminiscent you know some of it was a little bit reminiscent of the edge from you two or Andy Summers from the police and that kind of thing so you know really

so Doug followed us and we ended up touring right across Canada back back and forth, all throughout 1985. And I guess in September of 1985, we were offered a record deal through Virgin Records. And the negotiation thing happened over the course of the next few months. We ended up signing it just before Christmas. We played at a bar called The Copa in Toronto. Yeah, of course. I think that would go on to be, no, they would go on to form the government. I think I'm trying to remember.

Yeah. The Copa, I just remember Chris Shepard was always spinning tracks at the Copa, but yeah. Well, there was three kind of big clubs back then was the Diamond Club. And then there was RPM and there was a Copa. They were kind of the three. Okay. I think it's, so the Diamond becomes the Phoenix, I think, which is still there and And RPM becomes the government. And that's actually condos now. Oh, yeah.

Everything becomes a condo eventually, doesn't it? Right. But yeah, so we signed that record deal just before Christmas. We went home for, I don't know, a week and a half. And then came back in January and started right in the studio with Fraser and Rick producing big blue sky. And that was in Toronto where we did that. Right. Okay.

Let's play. This is the first song by the Northern Pikes I heard on the radio. And I bet you almost everyone listening had the same experience. Let's play the first big single from a big blue sky. And then we're going to talk about it. That's good. Give me a kiss. Give me a kiss. I want to find out what I missed.

Don't leave me now. Don't leave me now Don't leave me now Don't leave me at a time like this Boosters are blue Look just like you Snapshot on a magazine Now all the rage Turn back the page At one time you were just like me

Here in Team Lando Team Lando Team Lando Team Lando Jay, it's funny. I remember recording this song to cassette back in the late 80s.

I still love it. I'll tell you, that holds up right there. What can you tell me about this first big single to come from the Northern Pikes? Well, first of all, I wrote it, and I wrote it before the Pikes even started. I wrote it while I was playing in the band 17 Envelope with Johnny S sinclair and

um we actually played it and i sang it at that time and i was playing guitar on that band singing it and one of the one of the interesting things you know especially through the first couple of records on virgin beyond our indie records is that i was kind of writing a large percentage of the of the songs, but I didn't feel that comfortable singing many of them. So I got Merle to sing it, and he was cool with that. And like I said, we've been buddies since we were like 13, so I never had an issue with him singing some of those songs.

But that's one of the few songs I've written on the bass. It was written with a bass riff there. And, well, here's an interesting thing. thing yes when the song was released as a single and that was in may of 1987 so what happened was we finished the recording of the album in march early march of 87 and then we all kind of went home so we all at that time everybody was still living in saskatoon we all came all came back to saskatchewan and we worked at odd jobs and did various things because it was going to be a few months the album was not going to come out until june so i was working when the single got released at a golf course in saskatchewan like cutting grass like driving

machines and cutting grass and the day of the release of teen land i was out you know zooming around cutting cutting t cutting tee boxes or something. And then somebody came out in the, in the truck or, you know, the sort of the truck, I guess I call it the truck. It was instead, you know, that somebody's called you and left a message for you to call them from Virgin Records. They said, it's really important. So I was like, okay. So I got, they picked me up and drove drove me this is obviously well before cell phones and that kind of thing right over the internet for that matter took me back into the clubhouse and i got on the phone and i talked to laura bartlett who was a promotional person at uh at version at that

time and she said okay what happened was that what in those days they would courier out the physical copies of the single so every radio station in the country got them at the same time. So what happened, somehow there was some kind of a mix up in the radio, you know, the, the pop rock radio stations in Regina and Saskatchewan, in Saskatoon,

those two cities didn't get it. So they knew, Laura knew that we each were, when we were blast out there and the thing was manufactured, we had each been given two vinyl 45s of the teen land single. They knew, Laura knew that we each, when we were blasted out there and the thing was manufactured, we had each been given two vinyl 45s of the Teen Land single. And she knew that I had two of them. Luckily, I hadn't given it away or anything there.

So she said, do you have those? I said, yeah. She said, well, okay. We're booking you on a flight to Regina. You've got to take it right to Zed 99, which was the station there. And then we'll get you to fly right back to Saskatoon and take it to, I don't even remember the pop station at the time. I didn't even see K-Land, but there's been some changes since that time. So I had my green greasy work pants on.

I just booted it home and I switched into some other clothes, went to the airport and this is pre 9-11. So you could be there for the flight 20 minutes before. Got on the flight to Regina. It was the bumpiest flight I think I've ever been on it seemed like we're flying about 20 feet off the ground and bouncing like crazy just anyway got to the airport in Regina I took a cab to the radio station dropped off the single came back to the airport got on the plane flew back to Saskatoon did the same thing and then I went back to the airport, got on the plane, flew back to Saskatoon, did the same thing, and then I went back to work and finished the cutting.

See, Jay, that's the life of a Canadian rock star, right? I guess so, at that time. So, okay, so, Teen Land, which, I mean, here I am in Toronto, loving Teen Land. Can you give me some perspective on,

was this the big hit you hoped it'd be did virgin want to uh make this a big u.s single like uh do you have any uh any stories about uh about you know was everyone satisfied with the success of teen land well you know in in canada teen land did very well and it was in big part, I think, too, too much music. We did our first like real music video with Ron Birdie directing. And he did a great job. And we picked up on it. We were quick learners.

I think that was the first of many really, I think, really good and interesting videos that he did with us over the years. And I think that really helped now what it's interesting because the record was not released simultaneously in the u.s it was released they didn't want to release it until they knew we were going to come down and play and then so we ended up getting booked on this tour called foreplay which would meant there were four bands on it so there was and it was a bit of a money saver for the record label because you were on a tour bus and you were sharing with one of the other groups as well as your crews so it was it was packed on the bus i mean we shared a bus with a band called royal court of china from nashville and on the bus, the other two bands were a band called Hurrah from Newcastle, England and Will and the Kill,

which Will was Will Sexton, Charlie Sexton's younger brother. Okay. Gotcha. Who was actually at that time only 17 years old. And so one of the guys in the band was his legal guardian. It was an interesting tour anyway, but the,

so the Coors foreplay tour was going to happen. So Virgin released the album, but they didn't want to release Teen Land as a single. They wanted to release Things I Do for Money. Do you want to play that and then come back to this story? Or does it make sense to maybe finish that story? Because of course I want to play Things I Do for Money, but you can wrap that up, that thought,

before I press play here. Sure, I want to play things I do for money. But you can wrap that up, that thought, before I press play here. Sure. I'll just wrap up the thought. Essentially, what happened was Virgin U.S. did a great job of promoting the single. And what happened during that tour, we kind of outgrew the tour because we were the only band that was really getting substantial airplay in the video for things they do for money, which was the second one we had shot. And one of the funnest trips, I think, in terms of video, because we shot it in Alberta in the Badlands near Drumheller, East Cooley, Alberta.

And it was fun to go on location and was really still one of my fave videos in some ways, you know. But the video got added to mtv in the u.s and got into high rotation for many weeks i think eight weeks it was in high and uh and it got played a lot in the single went to album rock radio and ended up getting all the way to number 30 in the album rock charts in billboard which was a big deal and we were very naive we didn't really even realize what was going on but people were starting to recognize that song on this national u.s tour that we were doing and and the tour ended up running right till you know late fall and and we were yeah we had some really good success going with that particular single well let's play

a great another great single let's play another great single. Let's play Things I Do for Money, and then we'll talk a little more about that on the other end here. Sure. The things I do for money, I'll never understand I used to be quite critical, but now I find I'm cynical A lady with a starving baby miles away from me. No problems there, just life and death, and what the hell is wrong with me? Everybody else. No questions asked, just get receipts and write them off. Expenses, taxes are a bitch these days.

Yet the lady and the baby starve all waiting for a contribution in a UNICEF box in a drugstore in this ugly little town. The things I do for money, I'll never understand The world is just a marble in the palm of my hand The palm of my hand The palm of my hand Jay, I agree. Taxes are a bitch. I just want to say that. You wrote this one too. I did. Taxes are a bitch. I just want to say that. You wrote this one too.

I did. I actually wrote this. The song was written in 1984. And we tried, you know, this is in the early, early Pike days. And we tried to work out a version of it that, uh, that would work. And it was, it was very different from a lot of the other stuff we were doing at the time. And we, we, you know, we kept trying to figure out what to do with it. And then Brian kind of came up with that tapping harmonic line that really kind of brought it to life. I mean, very much as with all the Northern Pike songs, you know, everybody was, everybody was involved in terms of creating things even though somebody yes

i i wrote the song the seed of the song i wrote the lyrics and and came up with the four chords rotating over and over again but but to really make it come to life you you know you have to have chemistry in a band and i think that was one of the things that really you know the people picked up on in our early days there was a chemistry within the group that just kind of everything kind of connected sometimes. And so that song, so we did actually, that was one of the last ones that we demoed before we did the big blue sky

album of many of the songs on big blue sky. We're up. We're recorded previously on our indie records. Like there's an indie, you know, seen in North America as a version of Team Lab. And, you know, the first two indie records have a number of those songs. And we kind of went in and re-recorded

updated versions for Big Blue Sky. But Things I Do For Money was really, like right before we went in to start recording. I think we did that demo, I think, in the fall of 85. And we tried to figure out what to do with it. And then, you know, Rick and Fraser did a really good job.

Those guys really, kind of really gelled the group. And it was really different for us working with them. It really was. It was a different thing. But you know, and I can't say enough about our buddy Mitch Barnett, who was uh you know and i i can't say enough about our our buddy mitch barnett who was you know really did a lot of work with us in the early days and helped us to really become more adept at our recording skills and he mixed us live sometimes too and i mean it was just like

he was a good a good pal and but you know reality is we when big blue sky happened we did go to to toronto to record and work with those guys and one thing that all i wasn't really liked in the recording of things i do for money is just a little piano note just very subtle piano stuff and rick did that rick hutt did that and this the album the song did well for us i think it's lasted quite well it's still still one of those ones it it's a lot. And that great opening line, I mean, you know, the things I do for money,

I'll never understand. I used to be so cynical. The whole opening line, it's been ringing around my head for decades now. And this is also an opportunity to tease that later in this conversation, I'm going to ask you about a new movie that was released called Things I Do For

Money. So it's in 2020. It's all come full circle with regards to this one. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Sort of one of those things where you want to talk about that right now? Well, no, we'll get to it very soon. Very soon. DJ Dream Doctor is a great title. And a listener of the program wanted me to ask you, Jay, he wants to know what inspired the lyrics to this song, Things I Do for Money. You know, I was sitting at home and it was late at night. And I was just, you know, quite often, throughout the course of my life, I've been quite an insomniac.

So sometimes I end up not sleeping, and I was awake. And back then, you're fairly limited for channels, and it was like two or three in the morning, and I was flipping around to see what was on. And I came across one of the infomercials for a charity, and I don't remember right now actually what it was. I know I say UNICEF in the song right but I don't know if that's necessarily what it was but that's I guess that's what came to me when I was sort of writing out things but what I did is I I did this thing that I kind of started doing a couple years previous to that which is I would just kind of watch tv or do something else and

kind of just free form right I would just have a notepad and just kind of start writing things. And the words just kind of came to me. And it's interesting because most songs that you write, as a songwriter, there's generally a fair amount of editing that happens. You write a first draft and then you look at it and live with it for a while maybe and come back and go, eh, maybe we should change the second verse or maybe this part should be different or you know there's a massaging that happens and sometimes multiple like you know you can have dozens of edits of these things to refine it make it as as good as you feel it can be but with things i do for money was no editing. Those were just kind of the words. They were scribbled down.

And then I came to it, and I tried different things. I tried adding other parts, and it just seemed like I kind of had the groove in mind. The high had, you know, I had that kind of groove, and I pictured kind of a delayed electric guitar as in, you know, David Gilmour or Andy Summers or somebody like that. And I didn't know exactly what to do. And I wasn't a good enough guitar player or adept enough with effects to be able to create that. And Brian got it right away.

And Brian is a master at that stuff. He's, he's one of those people that I, you know, you don't really think he's paying attention and then all of a sudden you just play something and it's just smoking hot and you go oh okay you were listening all you got it you know so you know I can't say enough about his and the band and Donnie as a drummer I mean you know just very fortunate to be to have childhood friends that that were really are really good musicians and people that you know we were able to gel it together as a group well who's like who's in the northern pikes today like like what's the current

lineup yes well you know merle stopped playing with us in 2005 so we played we had ross nikiforik as our keyboard player and he he was our sort of our our kind of our fifth guy on our snow in June tour. And then the subsequent, which, you know, that album was released in 1990 in Canada, 91 in the U S. And then beyond that, there was an album called Neptune and Ross played on both those. He didn't play on snow and June, but he started touring with us with snow and June. So he played with us for a few years and then it ended up happening that he wasn't able to make some some shows that we were doing so we just did them as a three-piece

and then just stuck with that for a while like for a number of years so it was a three-piece group dawn and brian and myself and then i guess in 2016 we were sort of talking about possibly doing a 30th anniversary tour for Big Blue Sky in 2017. Brian, Pike Brian had been playing with Kevin Kane from the Grapes of Wrath. And they'd been, they put out a record called Kane and Pot Van. They'd been doing some live shows and I,

you know, we were thinking, well, okay, you know what? We really, we are a four piece group. We were always designed as that. We're designed, you know, we were thinking, well, okay, you know what? We really, we are a four-piece group. We were always designed as that.

We were designed, you know, with three singers and two guitars, bass, and drums, and so we got a hold of Kevin, and he came out, and I remember he played in, I think it was 2016, and he played with us in Niagara Falls at the Seneca Queen Theater, a beautiful theater in Niagara Falls, and then he played the next day with us, a Canada Day event in Brantford, I think.

Well, the home of the great one. Yeah, well, we really hadn't done much rehearsal. I mean, Brian had done a little bit of rehearsing with Kevin, but it just fit like a glove. He was just so natural on there. We couldn't have asked for anybody better to to you know be the fourth guy the world was gone once again Kevin sings in a higher register he uh he tends to write sort of quirky pop songs and he's a really good guitar guitar player a very talented guy and and he started playing

with it and it just kind of stuck I think we might have done maybe one more three piece after after that and then i was just like oh no no once you once you've had the full the full thing with all four people you really want to maintain that so he's played this basically ever since okay okay so uh you got your first major label major label release of course is big blue sky a couple of big hits. And then you have your follow-up, which is Secrets of the Alibi. Was there any, like, okay, so Secrets of the Alibi, and this is my humble opinion, so Jay, what do I know? What do I know? Lacked the radio hits of the first, is that fair to say,

or you want to tell me to screw off Mike? No, no, you're, you're correct there. What ended up happening was, uh, no,

we didn't have, we didn't have anything really, we had a, a single that did very well called wait for me. It was the first single. And actually the, the video I think was nominated for a Juno award. And that year we were nominated for most promised in group too,

which was, I'll just play a wait for Me in the background while we talk about this album. Well, Wait For Me was... Oh, sorry. Continue, Jay. No, I want to hear more about Wait For Me. Maybe we should listen for a bit. You're right. I've changed the formula on you.

It's all good, man. Let me turn it up a bit and we'll come back to it. 1982 was the year I fell head over heels with you I was only 21 And what can I do now and what have I done? You've thrown it all away Six years go by and they seem like a day And you can dig for silver with a shovel of gold

You can search for love right out in the hole You can wait forever or so I've been told But I will wait for you I will be waiting But I will wait for you Will you wait for me? Who's harmonizing there? Who do I hear there in the...

That's Merle. That's Merle and myself singing. I think we kind of... I think I double-tracked. I think we both double-tracked, which means we recorded the same thing twice. You hear that on all the Beatle records. I mean, there's a lot of,

it sort of gives it that full kind of sound. Yeah, Merle and I were singing on that. It's interesting, though, that album, Tickets to the Alibi, I mean, the first single was Wait for Me, and then we had Hopes Go Astray, and Hopes Go Astray was the first song, and Ryan had been experimenting with writing some songs but he hadn't really been a writer to that point in the

band as songwriter so in Hopes Go Astray he essentially he he wrote that song essentially he wrote it but he wasn't confident enough in his singing to sing it. So basically I sang it. I sang hopes go astray and he sort of, he sang in the bridge and you can hear his voice in the bridge. And that was very much due to the encouragement of Rick and Fraser, because, you know, Brian felt at that point,

I think it was very self-conscious about singing and, and Rick thought, no. So he spent the time with him. They spent the time working on this and he got that part done and I think it really instilled confidence into Brian in terms of his songwriting.

It felt like, and all of a sudden he just blossomed. He started writing tons of songs in our next record. I mean, it was very much a three-way kind of songwriting split, which was good. And I was happy with that because I was, to me, I love bands where lots of people write. I like, you know, like the Beatles and the band and Sloan, you know, like Sloan, exactly. You know, I mean, I love that vibe when there's just a, you know, to me,

you know, it all comes back to the Beatles too. I mean, it really all four of them would sing and that kind of thing. And I, you know, I'm a, I'm a Beatles fan. Who's your favorite? I just did an episode. So shout out to Paul Romanuk, who's got a great new Beatles. Uh, he's got a great new Beatles podcast. He, he actually speaks to people like you. I should tell him to hit you up because he did one with Jim Cuddy and Colin Cripps from a blue rodeo. And then he did one with Stephen Page. And basically you just talk Beatles.

You'd love it, Jay. But who's your favorite Beatle? Favorite Beatle. Boy, that's always a tough one, but I'd have to say, I'd have to say, well, every day it's different. You know, it really is in the big picture, probably, probably Paul, because I mean, he mean, he was a bass player who sang. And I mean, when I first started trying to sing and play the bass, I found it really challenging, too. Because the two are sometimes a little opposite, you know? And the first song, and I remember sitting there for days and days, many, many hours of practice to play the song Silly Love Songs with that bass line, which is the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, and trying to play that and sing it at the same time. And it was really challenging for me. And I had to start really slow and then slowly increase my speed to the correct, you know, the correct tempo. And, and I, all of a sudden something clicked and I could do it and it just wow it's if i can do this i can do this with other songs essentially and and so you know but i i really love all the beals i mean i really love a lot of the george harrison stuff and a lot of the john lennon stuff

and of course ringo you know i mean really kind of a cool record that he did is his country record book bukus of blues you you know, which was, and actually that song was written by the songwriting team, Boogaloo Bryant. And I just, uh, I just love that, that kind of vibe going on. And I have a soft spot for country music. I mean, I really do. I, I got in, in my early, I guess my mid teens, I got introduced to it by an older friend who was really into kind of alt-country. Things like New Riders of the Purple Sage and Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen and Graham Parsons and Flying Burrito Brothers and a lot of that stuff.

So that added to the mix of musical influences. Well, Jay, you can hear it in Snow in June. Especially a lot of the big hits on Snow in June have a bit of a country kind of flavor to it you know what i mean like you can hear a bit of it you know like a like a definitely a tinge there in fact and i'm glad you told that story of brian pop band kind of getting more comfortable with writing songs because it is interesting that i would bill you as the primary songwriter even though there's lots of contributions from uh the whole northern pikes band but the is it and i'm gonna play a the big single the first big even though there's lots of contributions from the whole Northern Pikes band. But is it, and I'm going to play the big single,

the first big single, because there's a couple of big monster singles off Snow in June. But this first big single, and I was a big MuchMusic viewer, and you could not escape it. I think they played this video every half hour. I have to check the tapes. Honestly, it was as high, the highest rotation they have was given to

this song. So let's play it and then I have plenty of questions about it. Here, let me dig her up. Here we go. Whoo! bar and walked a girl who looked like a movie star. She said at me and it was turning me on. She said she worked in a beauty salon. I heard her voice inside me say, she ain't pretty, she just looks that way. Definite country tinge to this sucker, but man, what a monster hit for you guys. And this is a song primarily written by a Brian Pop band, right?

Yes, indeed. Yeah, I know this song. It's interesting. What we started doing, what we had done all along, I guess really from the time that Merle and I exchanged cassettes, audio cassettes, and then Brian started getting into the mix of that too, because he was writing more. And so we would hear just kind of voice and acoustic guitar versions of these

songs. And I remember he, he, he gave me a cassette before he gave it to me. He sort of said, well, there's a song at the, at the end there. And it's, it's kind of a silly song. So maybe just ignore that one, which immediately got my interest up. So I listened to it and all the songs were really good that he had done. I mean, they were all really well written and really good songs. But that one was really, it was kind of catchy and kitschy. It sure is catchy.

Yeah, it's definitely hooky, like a very catchy tune. Well, you know, so we ended up, so I remember talking to him a couple of days later on the phone and saying, I like all the songs. I was, you know, quite ready for the band to do I Think It's Really Cool. And he said, well, I don't know if it sounds like us. It's more like a country movie song or something. I said, well, you know what, Brian? I thought the same thing with Things I Do For Money.

I said, at the time, I thought this sounds more like a pink floyd song than a than a northern pike song that sort of thing and and i said but by the same token she ain't pretty i said that's just part of stretching and being an interesting group to me you know if everything sounded exactly down the same lane we you know would get dull so he said well why don't we learn it we'll play it live and so a few weeks later we were playing i think in calgary and it was an outdoor show that got moved inside because it was raining and we we played the show it was really good crowd they were great and then we went got an encore and we before we went up for the encore we said let's play the new one let's try and play this and see what happens so you know it's always nerve-wracking first time you play a song live

because you just never really know what's going to happen no matter how much you've rehearsed it right and then uh we just let her rip and you know by the second chorus the whole audience was singing she ain't pretty she just looks that way so i remember walking off the stage with everybody at the end of our encore set. We all looked at each other and said, yeah, maybe we should record that one. See what happens there. It did very, very well.

I've got a thing on my wall up there. Two years ago, it was deemed a Sokan classic. It got over 100,000 commercial radio airplays in Canada. They actually brought us out for the SoCan Awards in Toronto. And that was the original four of us back, you know. So we got to hang out together for a couple of days with Laura and Brian and Donna and myself.

It was really fun. It was a fun trip. Well, I'm glad you guys, I'm glad you recorded that jam because it's a lot, it is a lot of fun. And I guess that's 1990, right? So I'm thinking, you know you know the tragically hip had boots or hearts that was like 89 right which was like so you you know that was kind of their their big country jam if you will but uh this sounds great right alongside it it's a really really cool job but can i ask you for the video because i mentioned the video was played every half an hour and it had that uh uh peewee's big adventure i call it large marge sent me yeah what can you tell me about the video

the the video was shot in toronto on a sound stage the exteriors that you see which looks like kind of a you know cantina in the southwestern u.s or mexico or something that was actually a small model so that was shot there. It took quite a while to do that video because, and I wish I could remember his name, Michael, I believe was his name, the guy who did the claymation, who was in charge of that. But there are those scenes.

And the first person that saw this was Doug Chappelle from Virgin. And Doug had seen a commercial on TV about allergies or cold medicine or something, and the person sneezed and that claymation effect. I remember this. I remember this. Yeah. Clarity or something. Research that. Yeah. To find that, find the person who did it. And we talked to him and, and so they, you know, Ron Verde came up with this whole kind of concept of being in this little bar

in the middle of nowhere. And this sort of woman comes in that's kind of from another world and uh yeah it just the shooting the video was really quite fun it was really a fun thing to do was exciting it was the first video from that record and and we had high hopes for it although i must say it was kind of a strange time in some ways you know around there because the day that the snow in June album actually got released in Canada was the day we got dropped by the U S branch of Virgin records, strangely enough.

So is that because, because I mean, I, this is a common theme, Jay. Okay. I have on artists. I grew up loving like I Kim Mitchell on a couple of weeks ago,

Kim Mitchell. And he was talking about, uh, the single go for soda, which his, his us label, uh, put had another,

they also had, I can't even remember now, which, what the jam was that it was compete. Oh, twisted sister. So they had twisted sister and they had, uh,

Kim Mitchell and they were pushing go for soda. But then the, uh, twisted sister song, you know, for soda, but then the, uh, twisted sister song, you know, we're not going to take it took off. And then it was like the U S label just sort of dropped Kim and stop pushing it. And then the rest is basically Kim Mitchell becomes a Canadian rock God

basically. And doesn't have the U S success that I don't know, Neil Young or, you know, Joni Mitchell or rush hat or whatever. But, uh, so is it like, can you, can you share a little bit? I'm dying't know, Neil Young or, you know, Joni Mitchell or Rush had or whatever. But so is it like, can you share a little bit? I'm dying to know, like, do you think your label pushed you hard enough in the States?

Like, because these songs are great, regardless of whether you're Canadian ears or American ears. Like, what would you say about all this? You know, I think a lot of it is internal kind of politics and it's the record industry is an industry where people move around a lot. And sometimes as a person that was really going to bat for you at the label ends up no longer being at the label or, or something else like that, like these things kind of end up happening and it, it leaves an

impact. So at the time when that happened it was somewhat shocking and and depressing i must say i mean we were in la doing uh doing photos a bunch of promo photos at the time when that happened it was really kind of a strange time now in retrospect what ended up happening was probably better because we had this we signed to a different label we signed to scotty brothers records and there and but that there was about a year of space and we thought well let's just keep playing in canada and we did and the record kept rising we had three really popular singles i mean there's shame pretty and girl with a problem kiss me you fool that all did very well right you know in canada and uh and it kind of gave us time.

We went from a support act for the first sort of tour we did with snow in June in Canada was, well, we did a few festivals actually. And then we went out on the road with Bruce Hornsby in the range. They did a national tour, which you wouldn't think maybe on paper that would work that well, but it did work really great.

And they were, they were so nice to us, Bruce and his band and crew and and it really helped to kind of elevate the band and from there we did a headline tour I mean we went right across and it it sort of went forever and more dates kept getting added and added and added and the record ended up going you know platinum almost double platinum at that time i know what i want to say to you my love but when i try to speak, the words slip away This bottle in front of me

We'll get you back to this deep dive with Jay Semko from the Northern Pikes very soon, but I wanted to take a quick break and thank those who helped fuel the real talk Samko from the Northern Pikes. Very soon, but I wanted to take a quick break and thank those who helped fuel the real talk here on Toronto Mic'd. Especially our good friends at Great Lakes Brewery. Delicious, fresh craft beer brewed in southern Etobicoke. And much love to Palma Pasta.

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It's fun. And signing up at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike or their app. It's free. It's fun. And signing up at garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike makes you a good FOTM. Kiss me, you fool. Let's get back to my conversation with Jay Semko. Before I must turn away from your heart You fool Kiss me you fool Kiss me you fool

Before I must turn away from your heart From your heart. From your heart. From your heart. And then we got the release in the United States. And She Ain't Pretty was the initial single with Scotty Brothers in the U.S. And it got lots of play. And it got into the Billboard Hot 100, which is the big single chart. Do you remember what you peaked at? I'm curious. I think we peaked around 80, something like that.

It made the top 100. The video, though, interestingly enough, was considered, the song and the video, was considered a little bit too country for MTV to play. So Scotty Brothers took another angle and they went to what was called TNN, which is called the Nashville Network, which became CMT, Country Music Television. And it got added and it went crazy there on TNN. And I remember there was a show.

I remember them talking about this video and me watching it. It was very surreal. It was, you know, because you were surrounded by pretty hardcore country artists. Like Garth Brooks, right? Like it's Garth Brooks and then the Northern Pikes. It was like an unusual thing, but you know, the great thing is we developed some pockets of real popularity in the States. We never quite, never quite all gelled at once. You know, it was always, so for instance, you could go down, we could play in Savannah, Georgia, or, you know,

Orlando, Florida, just a couple of, or Austin, Texas, and, and do really well and, you know, fill up, you know, the best club in town or, or in some of them, we were even playing some big outdoor shows. I remember playing a big outdoor show at that time in Miami with like Alice Cooper and Foreigner and a bunch of big acts. And it was like people, they got it. Then you could go to other places where it just never,

the song never got added. And you know, like LA was always a tough nut to crack. It really was. Even though we played there a fair amount to, to showcase to get a new record deal. We flew down there a few times. And in fact, one memory I have of going down there, we played at a club called Club Lingerie. And I remember riding down to the elevator with little Richard and his manager. That was sort of a big thing.

It comes to mind because somebody had asked me recently about whether you ever, you know, cause he passed away not that long ago. And, uh, and he's not literally, he was a big, tall guy. I mean, he really was. But he was neat. It was somewhat surreal to be in the elevator with him. But like I say, some places we did very well. In other places, all the dots didn't get connected.

And then we ended up parting ways with our management, I guess, sort of partway through one of our U.S. tours that we were doing. And we never really replaced them and tried to kind of do things on our own. And then really after Neptune, it was the band was burned. We were burning out. We really were. It was we were, you know, one of the things I if I had to go back in time and change something, I would have taken, the band should have, we should have taken some breaks.

We just had this kind of workaholic mentality, like we've got to keep going, got to keep going, got to keep going. You're making hay while the sun shines, right? Like this is sort of. Yeah, you always felt like you had to do that. You always felt like, geez, if we take six months off, nobody will know who we are again. Or so, you know, which is really quite untrue. And it's been proven over and over that, you know, if things are meant to be a certain way, then they will.

A good example. It's great to see like Kathleen Edwards. It's her first record in like eight or nine years. And it's doing started off great guns and doing really well. And she's obviously still writing really good songs. And it's like, it's encouraging to see years. And it's doing, started off great guns and doing really well. And she's obviously still writing really good songs. And it's like, it's encouraging to see that. And it's very, you know, you kind of go, there's no, there's no expiry date on music. There's no age limit.

You can keep doing it. The Rolling Stones won their first Grammy, whatever, a couple of years ago. The one besides Lifetime Achievement Awards, actually won it for a new recording they had done, which was the Blues record. That's wild. Mark Twain, I don't think it's the real Mark Twain, I think

it's the handle of a listener of Toronto Mic, says, could a band like that, and I think he's referring to the Northern Pikes here, from Saskatchewan gain the same level of recognition today without the video play on much music? I don't know. That's a good question. I think maybe,

I think maybe because radio was still really big, commercial radio was still really big and I, and, and it, and it still is obviously, and I love the radio. I love all aspects of radio. I really do. It's just, I've always been fascinated since I was a little kid with that, but that's a good question. I think that really did help. I think the visuals did help because you could, all of a sudden people can see you in everybody's living room. And there was such a, you know, as a kid, I remember even in my early twenties, you know, pre, pre much music.

I remember when MTV came on, there was a bar in town that played it, you know, that had it on a big screen and we would make an evening of like going to the bar and watching music videos on MTV. Well, Jay. It seems so incidental later, you know, but.

You mentioned earlier Moe Berg from Edmonton and Moe Berg will tell you the difference being played in high rotation

was I'm an adult now getting picked up by much music. Like that completely altered the course of history for the pursuit of happiness. So yeah, no doubt that's one way to, you know, this is a very vast, big country, difficult even tour, I'm sure because of how, you know, how, how we're, this country is stitched together. But that, that being on much music is invaluable. But you're right.

Radio, well, it's still big, as you said, but not nearly as big as it was back then when there was no streaming services. Like, radio was key. But he had a follow-up, Mark Twain. So Mark Twain's follow-up is how, and I'm dying to know how you answer this, and then I want to play one more song from Snow in June

before we move on to a couple of other things I really want to talk to you about, but the followup from Mark Twain is how do young bands get national exposure today? You know, I think it's, it's the same old thing to a certain extent is get out in front of people and get yourself known and get, you know, get people to become aware of you from the ground up yes you can you know obviously

promotion and publicity and there's a lot that you can do yourselves now and i mean that's happening it's evolving daily and has been for for many years in terms of self-promotion but i think i think you just have to be be smart find find something find a different way to go about it some ways you know but having having said that, I mean, I look at, there's a band from Saskatchewan that's, I think they just won a Juno Award, the Dead South. I think that's their second Juno Award for, I think maybe Traditional Roots album of the year.

And there's a number of artists from Saskatchewan that are touring or were until obviously until COVID hit but we're touring internationally a lot and making a name for themselves as a result of that and I really think nothing beats that in-person experience I think when we come out the other end of this COVID thing and we're you know live music becomes a thing again I think it's gonna be huge I think people are craving it is craving that you know for sure I think on Saturday that was the first live live thing that I had done just a solo acoustic singer-songwriter thing and it was in a backyard and there were 30 people which is the maximum you're

allowed everybody was socially distanced and that kind of thing. And I had so much fun. I hadn't played since March 11th. And I remember the reason I remember that day is because it was sort of a pre Juno award show that I did with a couple other artists, Belle Plain and Earl Pereira from Wide Mouth Mason. And it was recorded for CBC Radio 1 in Saskatchewan for a show they were doing. And the next day was the beginning of Juno Week, which was a big deal for all of us artists

out here in Saskatchewan. Right. It was going to be happening in Saskatoon and they canceled it the next day. And that was when it's sort of like, oh, this is a real thing. This is now in our backyard. It's not just something we're seeing on the news now.

This is really something happening here. Yeah, no doubt. The 11th, I think that was a Wednesday. And I know, at least here, the day everything changed was Friday the 13th of March. So that was, yeah. When we come through, you're right about the live music. I have Ron Hawkins from Lowest of the Low.

He's visiting my backyard next week and he's bringing his guitar. So I'm getting a concert. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't want to make anyone jealous, but I am getting a concert in my backyard here. I want to play one more song if I may. By the way, great. He's like a great songwriter. Lowest to the low is a great band. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm going to,

I close every episode of Toronto Mike with Rosie and Gray from Shakespeare, from a Shakespeare. My butt, uh, love that album, love that band. So, uh, yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent there. One more song from snow in June. And then we have some other things, of course we have to cover here. I want to cover. So let's play one more She's a girl with a problem She's a girl with a problem There ain't no cure Well, she works so hard And at the end of the day There's a little something extra To take it all away

You see, love can conquer all and man, I wish it were true She's a girl with a problem and there's nothing I can do Nothing I can do You can bang your head against a brick wall You can like her humpty-dumpty

but you can't prevent her fall. Well, a bang, bang, bang, there's nobody home. She's a girl with a problem and she wants to be alone. You can lie to me. You can lie to yourself for a while

till those lies turn into something else I will talk to you you will listen to me for a while then you'll turn your

back and away you go, away you go Jay, this is a very, very pretty song. Well done. What inspired this song? Is this at all about anybody in particular? You know, really, ultimately

yeah, I wrote it about the person I was with at the time. And but really, it was about me. Interesting. Sort of like, you know, Mona Lisa was a self-portrait, they say. So tell me more about if you don't mind sharing about your. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict, and I've had my ups and downs over the years. And I've had some mental health issues, which I've consistently dealt with and still do. You know, I'm bipolar, so it's quite a mixed bag.

You've got a bipolar, recovering alcoholic addict. alcoholic addict but at the time when i wrote that song back in like 1989 you know i was kind of looking maybe for somebody to kind of blame my own my own crap on you know that was sort of what that came down to and it you know really i can't say it was necessarily written about one person because it becomes you might start off with that idea it's like with many songs you start off with a certain concept and then you kind of go somewhere else with it i start thinking about that kind of thing and i mean it's interesting because we have a couple of songs about that subject on snow and june the other one a song merle wrote called tomorrow never comes which is a brilliant song and uh that's really where it came from but you know lyrically it was written as kind of a folk type song to begin with and we

we really had challenges we knew we had a good song there we knew we had something that people could relate to but we didn't really know exactly how to get it across so we demoed i think we did three demo versions of this song and uh my initial picture of it musically was I thought of it kind of like a kind of like a Latin rock thing or like almost like a Santana type thing and we tried something that way never really quite gelled and then went back and did a second version which didn't gel when the third version was very close to what we ended up recording for for snow and june so it evolved it took some work and some some serious work and massaging to try and find the right

arrangement with it and obviously we brought in uh you know snow and june was i call it sort of the special guest album we had some great people with us on there girthth Hudson playing organ on that particular song. Right. Fero. Both just like monster. Sorry, what was the second name there? Because we got an internet garble there. What was the second?

Crystal Telefero. Okay. Is that the woman's voice I'm hearing? And we saw the reason she got involved in this. Yes, that is. And when we were recording Secrets of the Alibi, we did part of that record in Quebec at Le Studio up in Morin Heights, north of Montreal.

And I remember two of the guys, Donnie and Merle, went down to Montreal and saw John Mellencamp playing in whatever, the hockey rink, I guess the forum at that time. And they were knocked out by this gal, the multi-instrumentalist singer that was in the band. And when it came time to do Snow in June, Fraser said, well, if you were going to have a female singer on the record, who would it be?

And so those guys immediately said, well, this, she's like great. So he, he went to, you know, went on a mission to find out where she was and if she would be interested in recording. And lo and behold, she had just moved to New York City and was getting involved in the jingle world, which was apparently at that time super lucrative, in addition to being a touring musician. And so she came up on the train. We were recording in Bearsville Studios, which is just outside of Woodstock, New York, about two hours drive north of New York City. That's where we did most of Snow in June.

And she came up on the train, I think with her boyfriend, and hung out for the day and sang a bunch of stuff. And I believe she came back a second time when I think of it. She came back a few weeks later and did a second trip up there. And she was just great and i mean garth garth lived in woodstock so yeah because that's where that isn't that where they the songs from the big pink isn't that happening in woodstock or am i confusing my band story yeah no woodstock was a big big part of that and they had in their vaults and i mean fraser kept sort of

you know saying hey can we listen to some of these because there were a bunch of famous recordings that had never been released and bob, and Bob Dylan drops by, right? Yeah, exactly. Bob Dylan and the band recording. We never did really hear them, actually. But no, it was such a great place. The vibe was so cool there. You felt like you were up in the woods,

but you were literally just a couple hours from New York and that kind of thing. But yeah, so we finally got the version we wanted out of Girl out of girl with a problem and ended up doing very well for us actually. Okay. Now a couple of questions from listeners and we'll move on. And I'm really sorry. Cause I think I told you I would take an hour of your life and I'm actually going to steal a few more minutes if it's okay. It was all good. I like that answer. I love it. It's all good. Andrew Stokely, shout out to Andrew Stokely. He's an

audio guru, a good friend too. He wanted me to ask you, I know you answered this on Twitter, but now you have to answer it on the podcast. Ask Jay, how many times, if he can remember the Pikes played the key to Bala. And I know I saw at least three shows over the years.

I believe we were there three times. Oh, so he caught three for three. I think it was three. There might've been one more i do remember there was a very high stage there because i was i think the first time i was there was kind of like you know rocking out and getting towards the edge and then whoa it's not it's not four feet it's more like 14 feet you know it seemed like that anyway but it was fun up there

i mean you know people were obviously relaxing and relaxing and they're up in a beautiful place. And yeah, I remember the key to ballot with that. It was a really fun plan up there. Brad Jones. So Brad Jones, he actually, he's a great FOTM. He owns and operates Ridley Funeral Home, which is a local funeral home here. And Brad Jones says, and I'm going to read his note.

Thank him for me. So thank you, Jay. Northern Pikes are my favorite they opened for glass tiger and hamilton back in 1988 we went and had seats about 11 rows back when they finished my friends and i got up walked out and went searching for searching the bars uh to see if you guys would show up so uh brad jones wants me to let you know how uh how much he loves the Northern Pikes. Well, thanks, Brad. That's really nice.

That's really nice. I remember that show because I think that one was done on kind of short notice. And it was interesting because, you know, when you're a young band, you're sort of competitive. And Glass Tiger, they were kind of the first of a bunch of groups, Glass Tiger, they were kind of the first of a bunch of groups, including us, that were kind of somewhat along the same line. I mean, I look at Glass Tiger, Chalk Circle, and Us, and Blue Rodeo, and Grapes of Wrath, and I'm sure others, 5440, others that I'm not remembering at the moment. The spoons maybe? They were kind of living in that same kind of world, you know.

And we were like, okay, well well let's go open for glass tiger we were offered the the show and we're kind of going okay well what's this going to be like it turned out to be really good it was a fun it was a really fun night and the guys were really nice in the band and i mean we've kind of stayed in touch with with at least alan over the years. And, and yeah, it's cool. You know, I really value that more than anything. I think of people and relationships I've developed over the years with people and got to know people. And it's like, it's pretty cool that you sort of, Oh, Hey, I remember when we kind of hung out and, you know,

we may not see each other, you know, many of my, my peer group from, from that era, I may not see them all that often, but we all know each other. We all remember each other. We did a gig last, I think it was not last year, but the year before, or maybe it was last. God, it's all blurry now. We did a show with Pursuit of Happiness in Vancouver at the Commodore. And it was so good to see Mo and to see the people in the band. It was, you know, it was really a fun experience.

And that's one thing I do miss. You know, a big part of the Northern Pike stuff is our summer shows. That's really, you know, a big part of our thing. There's a lot of kind of classic rock shows and festivals and those kind of things. And often multi multi band format. And it's so fun to see your old friends that you haven't seen for a long time. You get to hang out and groove. And I missed that this summer for sure.

Me too. Me too. So you mentioned after, after Neptune, the band breaks up basically. And then tell me a little bit about what you were doing on uh due south well that was really kind of a forest gump type thing in some ways because uh i mean the band was breaking up we were we later we called it a hiatus but at the time we had no plans to regroup we were just thought we were done we were burnt out and kind of sick of it and uh i got a call from an agent one of the agents that we work with in vancouver janet york for the film and agency and uh and she had mentioned that there's a there was a producer of this uh pilot movie that's happening and he's a big fan of

my songwriting and interested to know whether i wanted to try and write a theme song for this pilot in case it became a series so I got her to describe it to me to describe the whole uh you know what the the concept of the show which was eventually you know it was about a Mountie RCMP officer in the Yukon whose father is an RCMP officer, too. He gets murdered, and the younger, the son, tries to track down the suspect, basically, and ends up going from the Yukon down to Chicago and hooking up with a detective in Chicago. And obviously a lot of fish out of water type stuff going on there and uh but as she was describing this to me I ideas just came fast and furious and I wrote down a bunch of thoughts that came and I couldn't wait to get off the call

with her because I had I could hear a melody in my head and I know and I written these lyrics and and it came really quickly and you know like I say I have songs that have taken me 10 years to finish, and this one happened pretty quick. And once again, sort of like Things I Do for Money, I didn't need a whole lot of editing in it. It just kind of occurred. And I went into a studio in Saskatoon, and by fluke, interestingly enough, Brian was in town at the time.

So anyway, long story short, we did a demo of it. And that's the version that you heard on the TV show. They really liked that. And then they liked the demo that was submitted for Due South. And a few weeks later, got back and said, well, they're interested to know whether you'd like to try and demo some stuff for the music score. Which I had no idea. I had no technical knowledge of that at all but they sent me a vhs tape and i kind of lined it up to certain spots

and in scenes and went in and did a quickie demo which was very uh acoustic roots organic oriented i thought that's what fitted the most although the one one music cue that i demoed was more like surf like surf music they didn't really buy that one but they did like the stuff that was definitely a little more kind of uh folk oriented and uh and they really liked it and thought okay are you interested in trying this if you are then come to toronto and so they it up they flew me to Toronto and and hooked me up with uh two other film composers Jack Lenz and John McCarthy who are both brilliant composers in in their own right and uh and we started working on the pilot movie as as sort of the the trio the the composing team and it was really uh I mean I learned a lot on the go from those guys and from Paul Haggis, who was our boss, basically, the creator of Due South.

And, yeah, the pilot did very well in the ratings. And so they went ahead and did the series. And I worked for five years on Due South, basically. We did 66 episodes. It's in syndication all over the world. And it just changed my life in many ways because the skills that I learned there and anyone make no mistake it was stressful I had to I had to have a lot of catching up and a lot a lot of work to do to kind of feel like I could you know live

in the same world all that is to compadres but know, I guess it all worked out. And I continued doing that. And since then, I've worked on many, many films and many TV series and that kind of thing. Well, do you want to name drop a few? Just give us a few of the highlights of the film and television that you've composed music for. I did a couple of movies.

The first one I did was called Strange and Rich. The next one was called Paris or somewhere, which actually won a few awards for music composition for that featured Callum, Keith Rennie and Molly Parker and John Vernon. And from there on, I guess I did a discovery channel series. Cotter's wilderness trails.

I think we did 39, 39 shows of that. And a bunch of CBC documentaries, another series called Body and Soul. The most recent thing I guess I did was on history television. It was a series called Dust Up, which was actually shot in Saskatchewan. And that was about crop dusting pilots in,

in the prairies here. And I don't know. It's just there's a lot of things in there. But yeah, that became kind of more of a primary focus, I guess, for me more than anything else. Well, here, I'm bringing back. I'm going to play it quietly. But I'm bringing back things I do for money here,

not just because it's a great jam, but because it's just percolating nicely in the background. Oh, that sounds great. I want you to tell me everything you can about this. There's a genre-bending orchestral crime caper. It's called Things I Do for

Money, and I read the description. It said two Japanese Canadian cellist brothers cellists played the cello I'm guessing let me see they're played by real life virtuoso brothers by the way in their film debut but they accidentally steal

$20,000 and become entangled in the Hamilton criminal underworld so shout out to the hammer. What can you tell me about, this is called Things I Do for Money, and that's not a coincidence, right? That is your Things I Do for Money.

Yeah, well, you know, the director, sort of the creator of the movie is Warren, he goes by Warren P. Sonoda. I call him Warren. And Warren is a great video director and great film director for that matter. And he ended up writing the script for this movie entitled Things I Do For Money with another person. They co-wrote it. I don't remember who the other person is, but Warren, I knew Warren. Warren is a a good friend he did a music video with me the second actually video that I that I did

from my first solo record and and the song did very well it was a top 40 kind of adult contemporary song and the video got played I think on much back in the day the song is called times change it's from an album called mouse that I put out in 1995 and Warren was a director. And he was always cool. He had just such a cool vibe about him. And so I guess we sort of stayed in touch through the years, et cetera. And he got a hold of me and the guys, I guess, when he was working on Things I Do For Money

and said, you know, this is this song. And, you know, he got a hold of who he needed to to be able to utilize it because of publishing his own by a different company now, et cetera. And the title, I guess, just fit what was going on with it. And he wanted to use the song in the show. And so what he, you know, he described it as the cello playing brothers and it's Theo and Max.

And I hadn't seen the movie until recently. I had read, you know, the script and those kinds of things but he wanted me to sing on, they wanted to use the song in the closing credits during a cello version with the two brothers. And the cellos are a huge part of the movie. And they really add such a cool thing. I mean, it makes you want to learn how to play the cello when you see these two guys. Young guys, and they just rock out on the cellos.

They're so good. And they just rock out on the cellos. They're so good. And so anyway, he wanted to know if he wanted me to, he wanted to know if I wanted to sing over a cello version of things I do for money for the closing credits. And I thought, sure, let's do it. So, so I did meet the guys over the phone. And we did have a conversation regarding that. And they recorded their tracks and sent it out here to Saskatoon.

And I, I overdubbed my vocal over top you know over top of their instrumental version of this and uh like i said when i saw the movie it was just like i was really knocked down it was just like wow this is cool it's you know it's interesting and i believe warm is originally from hamilton and it's set in hamilton there's lots of shots there's no you know like you can do south it was set in Chicago, a lot of it. So they would use exterior shots of, you know, various landmarks,

that kind of thing in, in Chicago. And then the interiors and a lot of the exteriors were shot. It was in Toronto. It was mainly done in Toronto and some of it up North in the Yukon as well, or Northern Ontario, but with things you do for money, it's all shot in Hamilton.

Is there a cameo by Tom Wilson from, from junk house? I just want to know. No, I just, I was just guessing that he's Mr. Hamilton to me, Tom Wilson.

Yeah. You know, that would be, that's a really good question. I, I didn't notice him in there, but having said that, yeah.

Doesn't mean that I didn't miss it, you know? So who knows actually, but yeah, that's, that's, i didn't miss you know so who knows actually but yeah that's that's i guess my involvement with it and warren just such a cool guy and i mean he you know he's this is really a very uh project very close to his cart to his heart you know warren being japanese canadian and a number of the lead actors in in the film are Japanese Canadian and they do in various ways deal with you know some of the challenges and some of the racism that has existed it's very much a multicultural cast and the two young guys you know are so good and I mean they're really it really lures you in this movie and it takes a lot of strange, bizarre twists and turns, but it really,

so much of it is anchored musically by, by the music I find. And I really noticed music score and I like really different and interesting music scores. And this really is an interesting score with the two, with the two guys. Okay. Two things I want to add to this. One is that the good news is that, uh, this movie, this film, Things I Do for Money, is available right now on demand. So all the Canadian digital video on demand platforms have it. So search for Things I Do for Money. You mentioned Warren P. Sinatra. I think he did Trailer Park Boys movies. Yes, he's done a lot of work. He's done a lot of work. I think he did like 11 films and 70 television episodes. And you

mentioned the music videos. I think he did 130 music videos. So it's available now on demand. So that's one thing I want to let people know. It's called Things I Do For Money. And also, it's not just, I mean, your song song uh things i do for money it kind of anchors the film's most intense scene but you also have the arkells speaking of hamilton you have the arkells you have july talk uh and this is funny this band uh has been in my studio but they came on the wrong day so i had another episode going on and i still have to rebook them, so I'm taking a mental note to get them back here on Toronto Mic. But Jane's Party is also on the – as one of the artists you'll hear

in this movie. So there's a lot of great can-con in Things I Do for Money, but especially your song. So that's fantastic. Yeah, it's really cool. I just really enjoy the fact that he's stuck with Canadian music along the way here. You know, the film really, I don't know.

I really loved it. I saw the preview version and then I actually rented it the day it came out because I wanted to see it on my TV and see what it kind of looked like. But, you know, unfortunately it's another, a little bit of a, the plans had to change because of COVID because really there was a whole release thing happening across the country. And I was actually supposed to be on a panel here in Saskatoon with a bunch of the people from the film. And obviously that, that all kind of got changed along the way, but so they've decided, well,

let's, let's release. And I mean, I'm glad it's out and people can see it now. And I, and it's, and I'm glad that we're promoting it and letting people know about it because I just really think it's a pretty interesting and pretty quirky film. And I think it's, I'm very happy that some of our music's in it. I think it's pretty cool. Very cool. And I have a million reasons to wish for this COVID-19 pandemic to come to an end. But one of those reasons is so I can,

I can see the Northern Pikes live in concert again. So thanks so much, Jay, for your time today. This has been amazing. Well, thanks, Mike. It's been a lot of fun talking to you and hanging out here. Take care, you know. And if you're ever in Toronto, you have an open invitation to visit me.

If there's still a pandemic, we'll do it in my very safe backyard. And if we've all been vaccinated, we can do it in the TMDS studio here. I'd love to meet you in person. That'd be great, man. That'd be fun. And that brings us to the end of our

707th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Jay is at Jay Semko. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group.

CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins Dark. And Garbage Day are at GarbageDay.com slash Toronto Mike. See you all next week. Well, I want to take a streetcar downtown Read Andrew Miller and wander around And drink some goodness

from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold

But the snow, snow Wants me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is Rosy and green Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years

It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or will do For me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and green. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't speed a day.

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't be today. And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away because everything is rosy and green. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who.

Yeah, I wonder who. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. How about you? They're picking up trash and they're putting down roads. to get started. Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn Because everything is coming up

Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy and green

Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold

But the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now, everything is rosy Yeah, everything is ros rose and gray yeah