Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jeff Hutcheson: Toronto Mike'd #931

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

Mike chats with Jeff Hutcheson about Bowling for Dollars, Blue Jays Banter, Canada AM, why Canada AM was replaced by Your Morning, Rod Black, and more.

Welcome to episode 931 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. ChefDrop, access top chef and restaurant prepared meal kits shipped across southern ontario buy one get 150 off of the promo code f-o-t-m-b-o-g-o mckay ceo forums the highest impact and least time intensive peer group for over 1200 ceos executives and business owners around the

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Learn more at realestatelove.ca. Hi, Mike. From torontomike.com and joining me this week is Jeff Hutchison. Hey, Mike. How are you? Hey, Jeff. How you doing, buddy? Good. How's Mike. How are you? Hey, Jeff. How are you doing, buddy? Good.

That's your new Yeti mug. Oh, yeah. That's right. I did tweet that. I'm like, this is... I have a buddy in Air Ontario who sells those, and you're right. They're absolutely unbelievably amazing. But I hear they're pricey.

I've never actually paid for one, but I heard they're kind of pricey. So that mug right there, I think, retails for $49. Oh, you know what? I actually was ready for something like $70 for this mug. They have those too. But I will say,

I use the French press, make my coffee. I can't remember. I had to go do something, and I actually left the house and did something. Two hours later, I came home and I picked up the mug and I took a sip and it was hot. Yeah. I have a little bit bigger one and I'll actually put ice in it and take it to the golf course and use that as my ice. Wow.

And I'm having a beverage. Well, I think Yeti should step up and sponsor the program. We've given them all this love, but it's well-deserved. That's a quality container there. Jeff, thanks for doing this. I was put in touch with you by the great Mark Hebbshire. Yes, yes. So because I know Mark, well, I'm going to see Mark tomorrow morning

because Hebbsy on Sports Recourse tomorrow. But because I know Mark will listen to this episode as a big fan of yours, what can you tell me about, like, how do you know Mark and what can you tell me about Hebsey? Well, you know what? I'll tell you what.

So I met Mark when him and I were first year students at Conestoga College in Kitchener. We were both taking broadcasting. I believe back at that time it was called Radio and Television Arts. Excuse me, changed the names up a little bit. And I can tell you to this day, I remember walking in, we were having, there were 25 of us in that initial class. And I remember walking into the studio they had at Conestoga College there for our kind of introductory meeting. And there was Mark sitting on the end chair. And I'll tell you, I'm not sure how this happened, but he started, he started rhyming off facts about the Chicago Cubs that nobody cared

about except him. It was, it was unbelievably impressive. And in fact, Mark actually has kind of a backdoor opening to my entire career being successful because he was writing sports for the, back at CKCO in Kitchener, the evening sports anchor didn't write his own sports at the time and Mark went in to do it. And that wasn't Mark's thing. And I ended up taking over for him to write this guy's sports and yada, yada, yada, you and I are now talking. See, this is what I love about, you know, hosting this podcast, which is that, you know, you, you start talking to the right people and then you start to say, Hey, I should get this fellow on the show or this, this, this person. And then you realize how connected it all is. Like it's such a small world, the Canadian media landscape, uh, it's all connected somehow. It's, it's quite something.

You know, I was thinking of that, um, just heading into doing this and, uh, you know, I was just kind of going through my head, you know, just kind of career points and this and that. But that whole connection thing, I mean, this would have come so full circle. Mark, who I haven't seen physically, I mean, I've chatted back and forth with him and texted with him, but I haven't seen physically probably for 20 years. And he had booked an Airbnbbnb out here and i'm in charlottetown to uh come and play golf this summer uh with his lady he ended up canceling till next

year but i'm quite frankly looking forward to seeing him i love it yeah uh hebsey loves to golf and uh yeah i did hear about that trip i did i did myself my, this is about, I think, 2018. I'm trying to get my years right. Yeah, I think 2018, we did the road trip to Prince Edward Island. Like that was the summer vacation we took. And it was my first time out there. And oh my goodness, like Cavendish Beach and everything and the cow's ice cream. There you go. Well, you know, it's the thing.

I mean, the thing that's kind of so charming about Prince Edward Island is how small we are. You know, the population of the city of Kingston is larger than the entire province of Prince Edward Island. That's mind-blowing. Yeah, it really is. But we're out here with our 28 members of provincial parliament for 150,000 people. You literally just have to stick your head out the door and go i'm running and you get elected so um it's so it's unique out here but i'm glad you liked it we're going yeah i loved it absolutely and uh part of the fun is getting there so you get to do the cabot trail and everything in nova scotia and uh yeah what

i'm gonna do it again actually because at some point i gotta get to newfoundland so uh i need more time essentially to do that yeah you really do have to some point I got to get to Newfoundland. So I need more time, essentially, to do that. Yeah, you really do have to get, I've been lucky enough to be in every province and every territory over and over, but you really have to go to Newfoundland. It's just, you know, and I'll tell you right now, people will tell you this about Newfoundland. You see the ads and it's stunning and everything else, But in Newfoundland, it's the people. It's the people which are just unbelievable. Oh, man, that's on my list for sure. Actually, ever since Stephen Brunt would tell me about the Woody's Point Songwriters Festival that he would help organize.

And I realized, like, I need to go. I want to go there. As Liz Lemon would say, I need to go there. That's in Gros Morne. I believe he bought out there, too, didn't he? I need to go. I want to go there. As Liz Lemon would say, I need to go there. So that's in Gros Morne. I believe he bought out there too, didn't he? I think he bought. That's where he disappears in the summers, I believe. Yeah. And it's beautiful out there. You know, Woody Point has, I think, you know, a main street of, I want to say maybe six or eight stores, three of them are restaurants. And then everybody has a poster up for the Writers Festival. It it's fantastic he's taking over the town i i just i just need to i need to escape the big smoke and uh check that out for a

little get that vibe in my uh my veins for a little bit uh so jeff i mean we're gonna walk through your career and there's three particular hot spots i need to kind of dive into but not you know three is by the way that's three more than most people have. So, but, but, but I need to know off the top, like how did you end up in Prince Edward Island? Oh, well, what happened was it's kind of, you know, just to amplify a bit, I got remarried and I met on a remote out here in late 2004. I met a lady out here who was a widow and we just kind of connected. And so then from, and then we, and then I eventually started coming out here every week. So I've been doing this now for seven, I've been retired for five,

but for 12 years, my last 12 years of Canada AM, I would commute every week from Toronto to Charlottetown. So yeah. And you know, I, when I give little talks, I've got numbers, for example, in that 12 year time span, my wife uh and i spent 2600 nights apart she dropped me off at the charlottetown airport 450 times we got so good at that we didn't even have to stop the car so that's how i ended up out here you know you do it and for that and for various reasons it made more sense to stay out here than to move back to toronto sure and we're gonna you know you talked about five years ago i've got i've got quite the clip for you actually but i'm saving that for the canada am segment here uh okay i don't know if this will surprise you but i guess we need to go back to ckco obviously and uh i'll read some of

the so i'll let the listenership know the big three up front, like a little teaser here, but there's bowling for dollars. I need to talk to you about Blue Jays banter. And then there's Canada AM. You'll fill in cracks along the way of all the great things I'm overlooking here, but I'm going to read some comments from like listeners right off the top. And it was amazing that of those three big things, one of those things seemed to dominate the emails I was getting and the tweets I was getting. So let me just read some of these for you, Jeff. Tyler Campbell, the VP of sales, he writes in, just as much detail as possible from Hutch on bowling for dollars. So noodle that one. And then the cleaning guy chimed in to say, OMG, so looking forward to this episode.

Ask him about his career at CKCO Kitchener. He was a local TV personality, including hosting Bowling for Dollars. Then Cam Gordon, FOTM Cam Gordon chimes in, important question for Jeff Hutchinson regarding Bowling for Dollars. Very specific. People used to mail in their Pin Pals submissions

on cut-up cereal or detergent boxes to make it easier to grab in the big drum. Would they throw out Pin Pals submissions that were unreasonably large? I can't believe that question. And there's more. Also, did Bowling for Dollars film in places other than Kitchener? And if so, where? And where is in all caps with question marks? And before you answer that, I'm going to just read a couple more quickly

because it was overwhelming. Graham Loudon says, okay, I went to the University of Guelph. We used to get Kitchener CTV stations. He thinks it was Channel 13, but he can't quite remember. Jeff Hutchinson did the sports, I think, but he also hosted Bowling for Dollars. Being students, we were dedicated viewers.

Okay, he wrote, this is him, okay? Don't get mad at me. It was painful to watch, but Jeff was great, calming down nervous bowlers. And last but not least, actually, this one I'll do off the top here, and then we'll get into

this, but John says, question for Jeff Hutchinson. We had a cottage up the Bruce Peninsula in the late 80s, and the only over-the-air channel we received was CK... He says CK...

CKCO. Right. Yeah. A CTV affiliate out of Kitchener. Come on, John, we know this, okay? We know CKCO. On Saturday nights, Jeff hosted Bowling for Dollars. It was a bit of an awkward show, but he was such a pro, and I could never tell if it was a pleasure

or painful for him. I'd be interested to hear his perspective. Oh, now he tells me he wants to be, I didn't read this till right now. He wanted to be attributed as an avid listener and I used his name. So anyway, let's maybe I'll be doing a little post editing, but please bury me in details about being at CKCO and how Bowling for Dollars came to be. And any details you can remember, this is the place to share it, Jeff. Well, first of all, I am just gobsmacked because I was on Bowling for Dollars from 1985 to 1992.

So that's 30 years ago. But, okay, I mean, I'll tell you, I'll answer. How Bowling for Dollars happened for me was I began working at CKCO right out of Conestoga College. In fact, during my third year, I was working full-time and going to school full-time at Conestoga College. And that kind of parlayed into me being the weekend sports anchor while I was still at Conestoga College. So I was able to kind of kickstart my career very quickly. And then from there, you know, I got into reporting and everything else and into stuff like Blue Jay Banter, which we'll talk about Blue Jay's Banter. But in 1985,

my boss at the time, the late Bill Incall, he had been doing bowling for dollars and he was going to step back from it. And I was asked by management there if I would been doing bowling for dollars and he was going to step back from it and i was asked by management there if i would consider doing bowling for dollars so keep in mind like at this point bowling for dollars was a franchise out of philadelphia and the first thing they did to me when i agreed to do it was they handed me this binder, which was, I'm going to say eight to 10,000 pages thick of the rules for hosting Bowling for Dollars. And I opened the book up and I read the first rule. And the rule, the first rule was because the contestants would come up, you'd ask them a couple of questions about themselves, and then you'd send them off to see if they could bowl

three strikes. So the very first rule was never ask a question you don't already know the answer to. Well, I shut the book because that was going to be my specialty, was asking questions that I had no idea what the answer was going to be. So bowling worked like this. When I took it over, it was five pin bowling. It was shot at the Waterloo Lanes in Waterloo, Ontario. It never moved. It was there the whole time I was there. And so the object was to bowl three strikes. And if you missed another $15 would go in the bowling for dollars jackpot. So the first thing I had them do was I said, look, can we raise the limit to $25? Like if you miss it's $25.

can we raise the limit to $25? Like if you miss it, it's $25. So they kind of agreed to that, and off we went. And I remember the highest the jackpot ever got at $25 a crack was $9,000. So what would happen was, it's true about the pin pal. So the way this worked was there was a huge bin in front of me, and there were literally thousands of people who had written in postcards but yes detergent boxes cardboard boxes the contestant would come up and put his hand in the pin pal bin pull out a pin pal and then in all the indignities he had to share whatever he won

with the pin pal right so a lot of these guys were just winning $15 for appearing on the show in this scene. So that, you know, it's pretty uncomfortable when you have to give a line like, well, Bob, that's $7.50 for you. And Ed out there in Elmira, Ontario, $7.50 coming your way. Oh, no, that's hilarious. Now, just to answer Cam's very specific question,

they're disturbingly, disturbingly specific. I might throw in there. If, if, how big was too big? Like, would you toss out any pinpals that exceeded a certain size? Well, no, you know what? I think the pinpal cards, I do believe that we did put a, this is so bizarre, but now that I never understood why until right now, boy, that's strange in itself.

But I think we had a no bigger than four by six rule. I like you, you couldn't like cut the box. You couldn't cut the front off a box of shreddies. Right. We throw that in the pin belt. So, but I, I mean, so I got to tell you, so we used to do this at Waterloo Bowl. And in the last five years, we would shoot nine a weekend. We would do three on Friday night, come back Saturday and shoot six more.

And tape would never stop. And in the, in the seven years I hosted Bowling for Dollars, we never stopped tape once. We had a bat flying through the bowling alley once. We just kept going. It was so quiet in there sometimes, our producer would come out and start bowling on the lane beside us to make it sound like there was other people there bowling. So people would come up, and the first guys would come up, and they'd have their YBA, their bowling. You know those Boy Scout crests?

Bowlers had all those for 100, triple pin. And I, with these guys would come up. And so there is a bit of truth into some of the things those guys asked because I'd look at these guys, and I'd go, whoa. I'd say, you've bowled a 250 game ago. Oh, yeah. I said, have you ever bowled on TV before? Well, right there, you could just see. You could just see. You just knew they weren't going to win.

I would just ask him stuff like that. And then we had people on there. And, you know, there were literally and I want to be careful how I say this, but there were two. You know, we had some people watching who I would term a little more elite than some of the actual bowlers that were bowling. But we would have people come on there and, you know, I would say to them, so if you win, I would always ask them what they would do with the money, you know, if they won the $15 or the jackpot. And I remember I asked one guy and I said, so what would you do if you won? The jackpot was a couple hundred dollars. He says, you know what? I would go right out and buy a vacuum cleaner.

So those are the kind of things we were dealing with. But it really became a blur when you're doing nine shows in, you know, 36 hours. Like you just don't know what's coming up next? I mean, but I will say this. And I mean, this is the quintessential bowling for dollars story, which has been verified as true. And it happened to the former host, uh, my former boss, uh, Bill and call, who just passed away in the last couple of months. And so Bill was in Kingston, Ontario in 1976. He was doing the Olympics for CTV,

but in Kingston is where they held the yachting because the winds there off Kingston are absolutely unbelievable, just in front of the penitentiary, in fact. So he was staying at what was the Holiday Inn in Kingston. I think that building is still there. And he had gone down to eat, and he was in the breakfast area there, the coffee shop, which overlooked the water. And when he went in to eat, Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward were sitting there. And so he went over and he said to them, look, I just want to say hello. I don't want to bother you, but just nice to meet you. He turns around to walk away, and they invite him to join him to eat breakfast.

So now you've got Paul Newman, Joanne Woodward, and Bill Inkle sitting down there eating breakfast. And about three or four minutes later, there's a guy sitting a couple of tables away, points at the table, points at the table, points at the table. Bill says to Paul Newman, oh, you must get this all the time. He says, I did it. People point at you to see if they bother you much. The guy at the other table gets up, charges over, and goes, you're Bill Inkle from Bowling for Dollars, aren't you?

And he's sitting there with Paul Newman. So that's the, I got used to getting recognized for Bowling for Dollars, like even now, 30 years later, even now. That's the quintessential true story. Alright, I'm going to pause for a moment because I'm going to play, it was tough to find

good audio from Bowling for Dollars at a CKCO. Thank goodness. I think you paid to have it all destroyed, maybe. So I'm going to play a bit of this to get a taste of it, and then I'm going to ask you the big question, which is whether you loved it or loathed it. But hold on to that for a second here. Let's hear a little bit

of Bowling for Dollars. It's back on now, 46.85 after we throw 15 in. You know, last year we had a show on Bowling for Dollars that we featured people who are YBC bowlers, and in the next couple of months we are going to have another one. And a product of YBC bowling is with us now,

and he has been lucky enough to obtain a proprietor's scholarship. In fact, the bowling proprietors of Ontario have gotten together in a giveaway scholarship to send deserving students to university, and we have one of them here. Please welcome Glenn Ohashi. And Glenn is from Ottawa going to the University of Waterloo. Glenn, nice to meet you. How are you doing? Oh, fine. That's good. So you're, now you're also, you came up to the YVC ranks.

Okay. And you were the provincial champion in 19, or silver medal champion in 1982. In 1982. So now you're what's known as a master bowler. How did you become that? I became it by just, I was a professional bowler. Oh, so you were a professional bowler. Yes. And you were a professional bowler.

Yes. And you were a professional bowler. Yes. And you were a professional bowler. Yes. And you were a professional bowler. Yes. The provincial champion in 19... Silver medal champion in 1982. Now you're known as a master bowler. How did you become that? I became it by just, well, helping the kids. I wrote an essay on how I wanted to help the kids.

I'll bring it down, because there's that clicking sound baked in that is probably annoying the listenership right now. But I just wanted to find something, something from Bowling for Dollars. And there you are. First of all, the jackpot was $46.85. Right. That's pretty big money, right? Well, it clearly took me a while because I said we will add in another $15 to make it $46.85. So clearly when I said we'll add in another 15, that means it was 46.70. And we threw another 15 in there to make it 46.85. Wow.

Now, everybody wants to know, because you seemed to, you were such a pro. You always were, throughout your entire career, such a professional. And it looked like you were enjoying yourself on Bowling for Dollars. So what is the real story there? Was this something like just you punched the clock, you had to do it? Or did you actually enjoy doing it? Like, tell us the truth here. You know what?

I think the first year or two, I thought this is kind of cool. This is neat and everything else. I think by year six or seven, when you're staring at five weekends a year doing nine shows, seven when you're staring at five weekends a year doing nine shows um it really was uh it really became let's just get it over with i mean honestly and i think it's because it was just the same thing over and over and over and over again however but thank you for that compliment because i don't think i ever uh you know i don't even think I've ever told anybody that. It's just that it really, you know, Mike, I'll tell you what the thing about it is. Yeah.

It was really a difficult show to do. It seems like it was easy, but it's really difficult when you're the one who constantly is the upbeat guy. I mean, you had seven different people coming on every time. And there was the, at one time I think I figured out in those, how many people I'd interviewed, you know, it's 52 weeks times seven times, you know, times seven. So it's, you know,

I interviewed over 2,100 bowlers in the course of that time. And I think the thing is, is that, you know, it was, it was, it was difficult. And I think the thing is that it was difficult. I have always been blessed. And I know Hebji has been blessed like this. And Rod Black, another guy I worked with, has been blessed. Can we pause that? I'm so sorry. Except as we speak, Rod Black announces he's no longer with Bell Media.

Like literally as we talk. I know I'm hitting you with this blindside. And is he no longer with Bell Media? Did he go somewhere else? He's excited for the next chapter. I believe that's no. You know what we could get into? Well, when we get to my Canada AM phase, I have certainly some thoughts on what's going on here.

Okay, because yes, we're going to definitely dive into that because Rod Black, and I envision this is the future of yourself here, Jeff, becoming a fantastic FOTM. I'm so glad we finally made this happen. But Rod Black is in the FOTM Hall of Fame. This gentleman was on the finale of Pandemic Fridays. We went back to back one day. I have so much adoration for Rod Black

and not just his Charles Barkley impression, but the whole package. So I'm speaking with you and I'm excited to speak with you. And I'm very sad to learn that after so many decades, Rod's no longer going to be on TSN or CTV. You know, I mean, and hearing this and my initial reaction is this, and it's been like this to so many of these things that have happened with

people at Bell Media that I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised, you know, I'm stunned, bell media that i'm surprised but i'm not surprised you know i'm stunned but i'm not surprised because bell media is certainly going around culling salaries this is nothing more than a salary dump i that's my take on it and everything else and but you look they've been dropping some pretty prominent anchors across the country the last little while. Well, Ben Mulroney is no longer with the company, as they say. Well, you look at Ben's case too. I mean, and you know, I know Ben, and I will say that when your morning took over Canada,

and again, we're getting away from bowling. That's okay. It's okay. We're moving on from bowling. The bowling segment has ended. And yes, there will be, I will find time for the Blue Jays banter because that's important to me're moving on from bowling. The bowling segment has ended. And yes, there will be, I will find time for the Blue Jays banter because that's important to me personally.

But please continue. Well, I mean, you know, with Ben, when Canada M was canceled abruptly and, you know, on the following Monday, they announced your mourning and that ended up being a very unfortunate thing that CTV or bell media did there because the the launch of that program was bruised by the outcry uh from people disappointed

that canada m left but i will say this that i had left there uh after the day of the last show and about three months later one of the uh somebody at ctv had just kind of went in to check my mailbox and there was a handwritten note in there to me from ben uh you know very nice um talking about his time and am and our time that this little time that we spent together and wishing me the best and everything else and i thought that was a very classy move by Ben at the time to do that. But certainly you look at what happened there. I mean, that was a lot of money talent wise on your morning. And this is just me, Mike speaking out loud,

but I don't know that you go from one of the prominent media positions in Canada to producing your own scripted and unscripted programs for Bell Media. Again, I just want to make it clear that I like Ben and everything else. This is, it's just when he, it was just hard to believe that, you know, we're now in the era of you announce on Thursday and you're gone on Friday type thing. So, I mean, just the dramatic shift in what's happened there with your morning just the way it's been played out and everything else. Now, having said that, I fully admit that when Canada AM went off the air

I probably only watched less than Three hours of your morning In the last five years And I have many Many friends who worked On Canada AM that are at your morning So let's do this Let's shuffle the order a bit

Let me play this I mentioned I had a clip for you Regarding Canada AM So let's shuffle the order a bit let me play this i mentioned i had a clip for you regarding canada am so let's do canada am now because i'm i'm uh i have thoughts on this as well but i'm particularly interested in your thoughts obviously but let me play this clip again to set this up i produce a show for somebody who i won't name until after the clip and this person i produce a show for who who's become a very, very good friend, actually. Lovely person. Had on somebody that you know very, very well.

And I mentioned to this person, we had a good chat as well, and I mentioned to this person, oh, Jeff Hutchison is coming on the show soon. Anyway, this is what happened. So listen closely, Jeff. This is for you. Hutch, oh my gosh.

I miss you so much. You are the absolute best. My love to you and Heather and the kids who I'm sure are not even kids anymore, but I'm calling them kids anyway. Anyway, love you so, so much and hope to see you soon. And Jeff Hutch, you are a living legend. You were and are the best. I loved every second that I got to walk the halls with you at CTV and just be in that Can-Am studio with you. You are really, you were and are just an amazing human. And it's so great to see that you're doing so well.

So that's Marcy and Dana, isn't it? I mean, I saw the clip that I think you're producing a show for Dana, right? Yes. So I produced Dana's podcast, which is one year old today,

by the way, on the DL. And recently Dana had Marcy Ian on who's now a member of, I think they don't actually, I'm just wasting time here while I'm cleaning my eyes up. I mean, you know, it's funny. The way Canada AM worked is that I really stayed

under the radar for the most part there. I mean, I was at Canada AM for 18 years full-time, 23 years full and part-time. By three years, I was the longest serving male host on Canada AM. Like Norm was there for 15. I was there for 18.

And not that that's anything, but it's a source of pride for me. And then I did five years part-time prior to that. And the last foursome to host Canada AM was Seamus O'Regan, Bev Thompson, Marcy, Ian, and myself. And the last three people to do it, Marcy, Ian, and myself. And the last three people to do it were Marcy, Bev, and myself. And when you look at the four people that I just mentioned, so Seamus went into the election and won as the Minister of Industry and Natural Resources. Marcy went into the election and beat Anna Mae Paul

for the second time in a year. Bev remains on CTV Newsnet and was awarded the Order of Canada two summers ago. And I am here talking to you. But only because you've chosen not to go into politics. I love those guys. I love those guys. All of them. And quite frankly, I'm in communication with Bev and Marcy, especially Bev quite a bit. Marcy certainly several times a year. Seamus is always touching base. To me, it's really kind of cool how when the show ended, we didn't end because we always were friends on that show, which made it work.

We hung out. We did things. You know, Bev had visited PEI many, many times. We did things, you know, Bev had visited PEI many, many times. We would go up to, you know, my wife and my stepkids here, we would go up to Toronto and visit with Bev. We'd go to the Great Wolf Lodge together. I mean, the success of our show was the fact that we genuinely were friends and we still see each other or at least talk to each other. And that's, you know, and here's another thing I wanted to mention is that every time Seamus does something or Marcy does something, I hesitate to congratulate

them or say something on Twitter about it because I immediately begin to get attacked by the trolls who are not liberal or who have a different agenda other than me just wanting to feel good for a friend. And I will say that no matter what your political stripe is, if you decide that you are going to go into public service like both of them have, no matter if you're liberal, conservative, NDP, green, whatever you are, I mean, I think it says a lot about you as a person that you are going to go out there and take this portion of your life and dedicate it in ways you hope can make this a better place to live. And I mean, that's why I get so annoyed when I'll do something and I immediately get attacked, you know, with people going, oh, they're this or they're that or what

about, you know, and I don't care about any of that crap. But those are three quality people right there. And I work with a lot of quality people, including Dana and everybody. Now, that's what the block button's for, my friend. I think back in the early days of Twitter, I felt like, oh, it's just like for emergency purposes only. And then as we digress, as we devolve, I suppose, i suppose i realize no man uh life's too short i block all those type trolls you you described right away and i i think i blocked 237 people

the last time i checked the block but it's it's interesting time to amp that up yeah uh okay uh all over the place here but one thing one thing that kind of saddens me as an independent podcast host here, so no affiliation to any giant cable companies or media outlets at all here, as you know. But like Beverly Thompson, for example, is somebody I would love to talk to on this show. Like I would love to talk to Beverly Thompson.

But I know if I ask Beverly, she'll probably have a rule at Bell Media that she's got to get permission from PR. And because I just went through this experience with Angie Seth, who's also on the CTV News channel, I know I'm going to get denied. Basically, I'll get a cold little email that says that Beverly Thompson is not available to me

or something to that effect. And I think that effect. And it really, I think that sucks. Like the fact that I can only have you on right now because you retired and I can have Marcy Ian on, which she is coming on, I'm excited to say, because she is now, although her official title is, she's not actually a member of parliament yet because they have to do the swearing in ceremony. She's MP elect is the official title that she has right now. But all this is to say that it sucks. I think it sucks

that an independent podcaster who's, you know, Beverly controls what she says. I'm not going to ask her to, you know, crap all over the, she's not going to bite the hand that feeds.

Beverly would not probably be permitted to appear on Toronto Mic and I just think that sucks. And she'd be a spectacular guest I mean she's engaging she's charming her her life story is compelling you know it's interesting when I had announced I was retiring um and again I and at work they knew a year before I was going because that was the deal I'd made with them because they'd made several uh you know they

did several things to make it easier for me to broadcast from Charlottetown if I missed a flight or so on and so forth. But in my last two weeks, they had set up a number of media interviews, kind of, you know, that this was going to happen. And so there were a number of people I was speaking to, you know, from the Toronto Star and some of these papers. And after the first, you know, the PR person called me and said, okay, I've got so-and-so on the line from the Toronto Star and here you go. And I said, okay, thanks, no problem. And she never hung up. And I didn't realize it until then that she was on the line for every single one of the exit interview or the, you know, kind of going away interviews I did.

And some of these were a half hour long and And she listened on the line the whole time. I was, and I, and that, I thought, holy cow. Because I guess I hadn't had a lot of interaction with the PR people in this kind of vein. But they're very careful, Mike. I was really, really surprised. They are very careful. And I don't know that they need to be.

And then what ends up happening is a Rod Black comes on Toronto Mic'd for his exit interview, which is what ends up happening. Well, listen, now I'm beginning to wonder, like, Rod was on a couple months ago. Now he's not working. What's going on here? We all know, and speculation, again, for any lawyers listening or whatever, that they're cutting all these big salaries, as you mentioned earlier. uh you we all know and speculation again for any lawyers listening or whatever that it's uh they're cutting all these big salaries as you mentioned earlier like i feel like they're letting

contracts run out on all the big salaries because the new era there are no big movie star salaries in the new era and they're one by one they're falling the clip that you posted on your Twitter feed of Dana asking Marcy about being 50, and Marcy's answer about people over 50 still having relevance and still being able to make contributions. I thought that was a great clip, you know, being in that age bracket, and it really resonated with me, because I think what you're seeing is when Rod goes now, and I'm trying to think of the person that TSN let go in Ottawa, who had been their Ottawa person for 16 or 17 years. Anyway, the thing is he was just replaced by a younger person. The entire Canada AM crew was replaced by younger people. And I mean, I understand what they were doing as a business move, but you look at the, uh, out here in Halifax, there's a guy by the name of Steve Murphy,

been there 35, 40 years. He's the heritage anchor in Atlantic Canada. He's just announced he's going and I'm sure his replacement won't be anywhere close to that particular age. So I think that's what's happening. And, you know, and I think Rod, I don't think he, I mean, I think Rod is now just into his 60s. And Rod, to me, could work till he's 90. That's how good that guy is. And yet, this is surprising to me, like I said, but not surprising.

Because now Rod's built up this salary level that they're looking at it and going, hmm, hmm, no, okay. And that's the way it goes. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And it and going, hmm, hmm, no, okay. And that's the way it goes. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And it's not, to be clear, it's obviously not just Bell Media, obviously, it's all across the board. I mean, I just had Peter Mansbridge on the show,

and Peter will tell you, and I'm nobody, I'm not saying Peter is lying. Of course, why would I suggest Peter's lying? I trust Peter that he's telling the truth. But Peter, who had probably, I don't know, close to a million bucks a year or whatever he was making as the head anchor at CBC The National, just one day decided he was going to stop doing that.

I guess you can believe that, that one day Peter Mansbridge decided he no longer wanted to be the lead anchor at CBC The National with that monster salary, especially for this country. You can believe that. maybe one day he decided oh i just i'd like to just do a podcast and have it air on sirius xm or whatever uh maybe that's true but or maybe maybe he got the tap on the shoulder that uh you know we we've heard i've heard so many tales about and just basically said it's time to move on. Like maybe those days are over. I don't know.

You know, when I retired and I had seen all kinds, and this does relate, I think, to Peter in a certain way. Right. When I decided to retire and a lot of people said to me, well, gee, won't you miss it? And I said, no, I decided to retire when I knew I wouldn't. And certainly there are a lot of examples of people who have either been forced out or retired who do miss it. I'm not one of those people. But then all around me, my good friend Dan Matheson, who had been

with CTV for 40 years, he was shown the door one day. This was the day they were laying off 200 people at once. And they'd taken the PR area, brought in outside, just like that show, just like the movie up in the air, they brought up outside people to slide an envelope across the desk. We're literally a couple hundred people. And Dan, because he'd been there 40 years, you know, taken to a separate office, the guy had been there given his life. I mean, he was, he was the hockey guy. He was the football guy.

He was the Olympic guy and he was walked out of the door with no dignity at all. And that was November of 20. That was November of 2018. No, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. November of 2015 at that point, the most important. And then I was so scared myself that I packed up my office. I exported my entire email list. And I thought they are coming through the door for me because I've been here this long. I'm over 60. I'm going to be on the hit list for this. And I was totally scared. Then the main thing that consumed me, it consumed me for

my last seven and a half, eight months. And we can get into how the show collapsed in two weeks, but it became the most important thing in the world for me to go out on my own terms. I wanted to be the one to say, I'm going. And I just wonder if a guy like Peter, and I'll use that because there are a lot of examples, felt that, well, he decided to walk away. You, if you're Peter Mansbridge, if you're anybody in any job, you want to leave on your own terms. And I think by Peter doing what he did, he was able to leave on his own terms without someone suggesting his own terms. Great point. Great point. And I could be wrong, but to me, yeah, leaving on my own terms. And you know, I mean, with us, when they, they just, I mean, they just canceled the show outright. I was supposed to retire two weeks later. And so I, to this day, I'm 99.9% sure I left on my own terms. But I mean, the way our show ending was handled was one of the textbook

bad things of Canadian. Okay, let's get into that. It's sort of like, this is like a Tarantino movie. So we're going to jump around in the timeframes here. But your last day on Canada AM was June 17th, 2016. Well, the show was, that was supposed to be my last day. The show ended June 3rd. Oh, okay. Right, because I'm reading an article in which you're making these nice quotes about the retirement and people are saying nice things about you

and, you know, Beverly Thompson and Marcy Ian are quoted in this article. And then, right, that didn't age well, did it? Okay, so tell us what happened. So you, and I guess you... I can condense this down for you. All right. So back in October of 20...

And keep in mind the show went out here in June of 2016. Back in October of 2015, Marcy, Bev, myself, our director, and our executive producer were on a phone call with Wendy Freeman, who was the head of news at CTV. Phone call was very brief. It said, effective immediately, Canada AM is no longer in the news division. You are being transferred over to the programming and entertainment division. That's how quick it happened. So what that effectively did was take Canada AM out of news, put it in entertainment,

and we then had the same boss as eTalk Maryland and the social. So we had the same boss. And her name was Nancy McLean. And about two weeks later, Nancy was taking us all out for lunch. We went down. We went down, I went down and met her at a restaurant near 299 Queen, said hello. I'd never met her, never before. Delightful lady. First thing she told me was she'd never seen our show. So now here's the person going to be in charge of our show, essentially had never seen it, had never seen

Canada AM. It was mind boggling to me. Well, it's one thing to had never seen Canada AM. It was mind-boggling to me. Well, it's one thing to have never seen Canada AM and then be given the reins or whatever, but it's another thing to sort of like tell somebody that. I know. Well, and then she had her kind of number two. Her name is Michelle Crespi, who I believe is still there. But Michelle had been a former kind of producer for a short time at Canada.

But again, it was still Nancy MacLean. So then about two weeks later, and while this sounds random, this is when I knew things were changing. This sounds very random, but Adele, the singer Adele, released her Hello video. Now, it was directed by Denis Vigneault of Quebec. hello video. Now it was directed by Denis Vigneault of Quebec. And we were told that video ran six minutes and 50 seconds. And then we were told that we were going to intro it, play the entire video, and then talk about it coming out of it, which would be about a nine minute segment.

Hillary Clinton wouldn't get nine minutes on Canada AM. I mean, so right there, right there, I knew, oh, my gosh, what's going on? Well, then a number of things started happening from there. Kelsey McEwen came in to fill in for the weather for me in March of 2016 at a time where we were under a strict no travel scenario because of budget. And Kelsey, again, delightful, love her on the air. But she shows up from Calgary I'm training her I'm going away for a week she comes back to do it Emery Metawake resigns from CBC we're all wondering where you know where she's going

um then it was getting down to about two weeks before I was retiring and Anwar Knight I know a friend of the show, and Denise Andrieci. I don't know if you've ever had Denise on, but those two were filling in. And I asked them, I said, have you heard anything for, you know, I said, who's doing the weather on June 19th? Because we didn't know what I did. And then two weeks before, I got called into a meeting with Nancy McLean, Bev Marcy and myself, and we were told that Canada Am was being canceled.

We could not tell anybody. They gave us a lump sum of money so that we didn't say anything for two weeks. Just go on, pretend life is normal. I was on this farewell tour for, you know, where I'd gone and done remotes in a bunch of places. I mean, I lied to two premiers. I mean, you know, I'm with Stephen McNeil in Nova Scotia. We're doing a show in Lunenburg.

He's going, well, you know, good luck. I said, thanks, Stephen. Yeah, retiring in two weeks. But I knew I was gone in like five days. Wow. So then they gathered the staff together on Thursday, June 2nd. So Bev Marcy and I knew. I told my wife.

I couldn't even tell my family. That's how tight this deal was. And they told the staff June 2nd that tomorrow would be the last day. So that staff had to undergo the shock of having their entire lives pulled out from underneath them, put together a show to say goodbye, and do all this in the space of like 10 hours. And, you know, there have been some stories that have come out and said that, well, the CTV suggested a one week goodbye and the hosts knocked that or didn't agree with that.

But Deb Marcy and I had a long conversation and we all agreed and it took a little bit to bring Marcy in, but we agreed that we would only like to do one day. We didn't want kind of a dead man walking week of Canada AM shows. And then Randy Lennox, who's the president, when asked why we only did a day, and by the way, we'd agreed to this. Everybody signed off on it. This was what it was going to be. In the paper, he blames the hosts for not wanting to do a week goodbye.

And I think a lot of people don't realize that Bev Marcy and myself had already been walking around for two weeks like zombies trying to cover this up in front of everybody and to try and do a week of farewell shows just wasn't in the cards for us. But it was very, very, very poorly handled. I don't even know how you look you know the person doing the makeup or the producers and all these people you're working with how do you even like look them in the eyes and be your normal self when you have this in the pit of

your stomach you know what's looming that's got to be difficult for you here's the toughest thing and there was a number of tough things because my we planned a big party with my family for the 17th of June and I had to cancel it and not tell them why and you know I'm making up some big excuse but I did this series of four remotes from places that I really loved across the country and one was in Lunenburg and so our producer from Toronto had flown out and a cameraman right and we were finished the show and we were in the car driving from Lunenburg back to the Halifax airport. And the producer and the cameraman were sitting there talking about all these shoots they had coming up this summer,

which I knew didn't exist. I mean, I almost burst out in tears in the back. I was in the back seat. These two were in the front and these, they were quality people and remain quality people and they had no idea what was coming and I remember that as being kind of the the pinnacle of my grief on this whole thing despite the family despite everything listening to these two these brilliant this brilliant cameraman and this wonderful producer talk about the plans they had for Canada AM, where they were shooting, the number of shoots they had lined up, coordinating all this with me knowing that within a week, they'd be out of a job. So that was tough. I can imagine. Now, how should they have handled it?

handled it? Like, should it just have been to come clean with everybody and just tell the truth about what's going down instead of this whole, like, you know, keep this a secret for two weeks and we'll tell them the day before? Like, what do you wish management had done? Well, first of all, I don't think they knew how to handle it. And I don't even know if I have the answer to that question. And again, I'm going to give you a very roundabout answer. But what ended up happening there was that and i mean i have uh you know we talked at the top of this about connection so i have a lot of friends in the business who get ratings numbers for this morning show and they they aren't you know canada evidence numbers certainly went down when they started all these local shows in 2011 but now it's it's bordering on disaster in some cities for where they are. And I've always thought that had they just taken one of Bev or Marcy,

I mean, and continued to call it Canada AM, they wouldn't have had near the blowback. I mean, they were going to multi-host it anyway. So put Ben in, put Melissa in, add Marcy in, add Bev in, put one of the two of them in, and continue to call it Canada AM because that was a 43-year brand, 43-year brand, that they just opened the window and checked it out. And to that particular point, when Marcy began full-time on the social,

it became the number one show in its time slot after Marcy got there, which showed them the power that Marcy could pull people. There were Marcy Ian fans that came to the social because Marcy did, just as they would have gone to Canada AM had Marcy gone, and that was kind of the same way. So, I mean, to me, the problem in the execution was knocking the brand out, whether or not they thought the brand was old and tired. I mean, certainly the Today Show hasn't, Good Morning America hasn't.

I mean, you work for all that brand, and then you knock it down. So I don't know exactly how I would have done it, except I wouldn't have gotten rid of Canada AM and I would have taken at least one of the hosts over there. So why do you think they took this brand of how long did you say Canada AM was around? 43 years. So 43 years.

And of course, CTV, this was, this was, we should point out, this was a very, very popular program. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Why do you think they decided to just chuck that and start anew with the Your Morning concept? My thought on that is, and I know there are others who agree with me on this, is that because we were over in entertainment, they wanted to make a thread of your morning, Maryland dentist show, the social and e-talk, where then they would be able to book guests and those guests would appear kind of in a thread through the day. They also thought that they would be able to capture a younger audience, which, as we now know, for TV in the mornings, is next to impossible.

You know, there is no younger audience. I was going to say, there is no younger. I mean, I... It's true, there's no younger audience. And to me, they wanted the same people who were going to, you know, who kind of ended their early evening with Ben Mulroney to start their day with Ben Mulroney, and it was never going to happen. It's just not how morning

television works. You know, and I'm not claiming to know how morning television works, but I got a pretty good idea of what worked for us and the numbers that, you know, we had. So I do believe that that's what they felt they could do, is that they could make that kind of a single thread through the day, and they wanted the Canada Am audience to be the Maryland audience, to be the social audience, to be the audience for eTalk. Now, the other thing that allowed them to do, I believe, is that you could kind of bundle things up. So if you wanted to buy eTalk as an advertiser,

then perhaps you might have to take the social. You might have to take some spots on your morning. And so to me, that's why they did it. They did it for that reason. I think totally forgetting. I mean, I'll give you my own case here. So I have three kids and three stepkids. And the age ranges for those six, I'm a regular Brady Bunch guy.

I was going to say, that is the Brady Bunch. Three kids, three stepkids. So my youngest stepdaughter is 19 and my oldest daughter is 43. None of them watch TV in the morning. Right. So those ranges are 19, 23, 26, 32, 39, 44. None of them watch TV in the morning. None of them.

Right. And none of them, quite frankly, listen to radio either, which is a whole other discussion. But they're listening to stuff like I'm doing right now. That's what a lot of people are doing, as you know. So yeah, I mean, I just don't know. And here's another thing. I got to go back to that meeting I had with Nancy McLean when she told me that she'd never seen Canada AM. She also told me that she was in a meeting when they were trying to decide if there were other things they could do in the Canada AM time slot. And my spidey senses are tingling at this point, but she actually told me, she said, this isn't something I don't think that was ever on the

table, but somebody brought up, why don't we just run Good Morning America in that, you know, simulcast that. And to this day, I'm sitting there going, okay, I understand that that did not pass any kind of smell test. But somebody in the CTV boardroom actually suggested it with a straight face. with a straight face. So it's all about, well, you know what, you wonder, is it about saving money because, you know, boy, the salaries they took on there, the initial salaries, because Melissa was in there and Ben was in there, and then they hired four other people.

I mean, that was an expensive show. Yeah, yeah, you got to poe Jan Marie from CBC. Like, you're not doing that on the cheap. No kidding. And that's the thing. And Ben certainly wasn't cheap. No, no, no. No.

So, you know, it's, and you know what I mean? I know what I was making when I left. And, you know, so. What were you making when you left? What were you making there? Not enough and way too much, depending on who you talk to. You're in the only industry where people might ask that question. You realize that.

Like, you don't ever go to the, I don't know, the guy, the developer and say, what are you making at this software company? Anyway. Yeah, no, I know. I know people. I know that. I will tell you, here's the, here's the thing people should know, unless you're in the, you know, unless you're in the Lisa, the flam, Peter Mansbridge business, or, you know, there's a guy in BC, Tony Parsons at one point was the highest paid anchor in the country. Wow. I don't even know that name.

Yeah. People aren't making as much as you think they are. I mean, I'm certainly not complaining, but I will say this, you know, I did the same job as Al Roker for apparently 16 times less the money. Well, that's what I asked because peter mansbridge the story goes um he took over as host of the national to keep him in the country because he got an offer from cbs i believe that's right and uh you know if just ask jay and dan about this right like uh the figures being tossed around for these types of personalities uh in in the usa are, we're talking millions of dollars. And here, if you're making, and now I'll just give us a reference only because I talk to many, many people in your industry.

But if you were making $200,000 a year, you were doing very, very well for yourself in this day and age. I just find it very interesting when you find out about salaries. Because quick aside on rogers just let go uh maureen holloway oh i i heard i heard from chfi correct and this is you know she took over for aaron davis and we all know the aaron davis story who told me when she was on this program that uh the the the vault people are trying to rob the bank and they don't realize that that bank is now empty like she was there telling me basically the salaries that she was getting uh don't exist anymore in morning radio like these

you know these you hear about these you know you know i don't know how big they got but between 500 000 and a million dollars you know like for these morning show guys i think john derringer it's been reported he signed a 10-year deal i think about years ago, for like a million bucks a year or something like that. But apparently these deals have evaporated. But Maureen Holloway, I mean, there's an example of a beloved host in this city who was hosting the CHFI morning show and was relieved of her duty very suddenly. It was one of those, like, she announced it on the show on the Friday. Like, oh, this is my last day, you know? Meanwhile, her producer,

if I can just come on a rant here, and you've opened up these floodgates here, but her producer, who I understand is a very nice guy named Ian MacArthur, maybe? They call him Ian the General. And he got like a lengthy farewell tour when he was being retired from his spot

on the morning show as the producer. A very lengthy retirement. And then the host, Maureen Holloway, it's just sort of like the Gord Martineau treatment. It's the peace out and get gone. You just mentioned Rod Black, who we just found out breaking news. His departure is as surprising, not surprising to me, as Dan's was uh

jay dan yeah well kid yes to clarify jay of course is still there uh no jay but when dan let go right yeah like it's money it's money that's what it is it's it's money for sure i mean you look at a guy like and i don't i don't even want to go there, but Bob McCowan was reportedly Canada's highest paid radio guy. That money isn't there now for him ever. Right. That's for sure. That's for sure. So you wonder, now I don't know if you have

any thoughts on this because you're over in PEI, and this is a rather Toronto story, but I know you keep in touch with everybody, but there were a couple of recent significant departures from the cp24 breakfast show uh puja honda and uh gurdip uh a because i'll butcher his last name so i'm gonna call him gurdip a he's very good actually but they both uh left and they're they they were not fired they i can tell by you can smell it that they're simply waiting it out and they're gonna resurface so maybe they're the new CHFI morning show.

I don't know. Maybe they'll end up on breakfast television. I have no idea. But they've left the Bell Media family and they're going to pop up somewhere. Like they're going to imminently, they will be together somewhere on the Toronto airwaves. I don't know if you've heard anything.

I think another guy that was kind of in for, and I don't know this gentleman, Brandon Gomez, who was on your morning and then went over to CP24. What I will say is this. I spent, morning television is not for everybody, even the greatest of broadcasters. Now I spent almost 20 years getting up at 345 every day, which then limited me to what I did every Sunday to Thursday night. And then for a great part of my career, I flew to Charlottetown. So it's not a stretch to say that morning television can eat you up and spit you out if you're not, and I'm not suggesting they aren't, but there's a certain discipline to being on morning television. And for me, that was going to bed at 8.30 or quarter to nine for

20 years. And some people's lifestyle may just not point them in that direction, or they may realize that that's not a place that they want to go. So I think anyone who leaves perhaps a morning television show, even as successful as CP24 is, it just wasn't their cup of tea. intelligence show, even as successful as CP24 is, it just wasn't their cup of tea. Now, having said that, there's personalities at play, too. So you don't know what the personalities in the background are, and that could be a contributing factor. But morning television is exceptionally tough. Boy, if you could have Bev Thompson on, like, she would tell you.

Well, you let her know maybe privately that I'm very interested in having her on, and you can let her know that I know that I'm not going to be trying to say negative things about anyone who cuts her a check every couple of weeks. That's not how I play this game. No. But I do think that

morning television can eat you up and spit you out and I think people who leave, perhaps it just wasn't their cup of tea or there was such a bad personnel issue that it couldn't be resolved. Right. Now we'll see. This will be one of those episodes. We'll see how it ages because my hunch is they resurface anytime now, they'll resurface as a duo and I'm trying to figure out where, but it could very well be CHFI. Like there's an opening there. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's all money though, right? It depends how much CHFI has budgeted to replace Maureen.

That's, you know, that's the whole thing. What an industry you worked in for so long. I mean, I had this chat yesterday in my backyard, there's a gentleman named Scott Turner, and you're forgiven if you don't know that name because he's not a name. No, I do. I do. Okay.

So when I look at his career, and I'm a big Scott Turner fan, even though I can go on the subway now and ask 100 people who's Scott Turner in 99 will say, I don't know that name. But this guy's a big deal to me. And I look at what he did at CFNY and I look at his contributions there.

Then I look at what he did at Energy 108. And then I look at what he did at Flow 80 uh energy 108 and then I look at what he did at flow 93.5 I think flow is and uh all of his stops he makes the stations better he's very good at what he does but he's constantly being fired or as he calls it restructured out and I don't understand the industry that takes a guy who's who's who's a very very I think he's a sweetheart like he's a good person i've spent lots of time with him he's a good guy and he's excellent at what he does and he's often being restructured out of these jobs and finding himself with a bunch of time on his hands uh i don't get it like i don't get it you know what i mean the word to use for our industry is fickle. I mean, you know, even a guy with Scott's talents,

and I shouldn't say even a guy, I mean, a guy with Scott's talents, the industry is so fickle. If they believe they've, you know, if the industry believes they've gotten all they can out of a certain individual, be it me, be it Scott, be it anybody, then they don't have a problem letting them go. I mean, this Canada AM thing, or there's an anchor in Ottawa, Caroline Meehan, who was let go. I mean, there were all kinds of anchors that created a massive public outcry.

In the example of Ottawa, I mean, they had 25,000 or 30,000 emails to the station. They were planning boycotts. Canada AM, on the day that people found out we were canceled, there were 7,000 Facebook messages alone. But here's the thing. Whether you're moving out Don Cherry, you're moving out Bob McCowan, you're moving out Canada AM, you're moving out your favorite TV anchor, they don't care. They have assessed what damage they're going to sustain, and they don't care. When I say they, corporate does not care. They do not care because they have a plan, and that's what they're going to do.

And I think too many times we get caught up in discussions or comments about people leaving or shows being canceled or whatever. And the very fact that the thing that seems to always be left out is the people who did the firing don't care. This is what they're doing. This is the direction they're taking. And you're not changing their mind. End of story.

Jeff, is that because at the end of the day, you're a number on a ledger? Yeah, for sure. I mean, absolutely. For sure. Absolutely. And I, I can tell you for myself at Bell Canada or at the Bell Media, Bell Canada, Bell Media, we all were given new marching orders when Bell came in and took over in 2011. I mean, Bell put a gentleman by the name of Kevin Krull in as president of CTV. He had previously been the president of their Bell home phone division. So that's how much regard they had for the legacy of what somebody like Yvonne Fitzon had done and people before him. They just wanted to run this like a business. So what's different between the Bell Home Phone business or the TV business or the Campbell Soup business. They're treating them as identical entities. Here's the balance sheet.

Oh my gosh. Why is the tomato soup not selling? Or why are we, you know, and Oh, chicken noodles, not going, we better get rid of it. To me, that's the whole thing here is that when he came in and, you know, certainly Mr. Kroll has gone on to a great success in the US but it was an example of Bell Bell Media going you know what the TV division to us is no different than

the phone division than the wireless division you're just a division and we really began to feel that so I mean we really began to feel that but the problem and I mean there's several problems there but one is that you it seems to it seems to eliminate the characters in our media landscape like i'm i'm now thinking of people like like hebsey for example and like hebsey will tell

you to your face when he sees you in prince edward island next summer that he cannot he nobody's going to hire a hebsey no mainstream media outlet's going to hire Mark Hebsey regardless of how good he is at his job and how interesting he is but it seems like this seems to be the case of many of these characters that we used to you know see on our television and hear on our radio that they just seem to be kind of being uh by one. They're leaving. Well, I think what you're really saying is... What am I saying? To me, there'd be no Jay and Dan without Taddy and...

Well, they'll tell you that. And I don't think there'd be a Tim and Sid. No. But I mean, to me, what you're saying is that the media has become very vanilla. Yes, that's exactly right. Very safe and vanilla and kind of, for a guy like me, boring.

I can't envision an outlet now, and of course Jay, is the last great exception, but giving them the latitude that they gave Pepsi, that they gave Bob McKay. These guys had unlimited latitude. I don't think you're going to see that much anymore. It's funny to hear you say that because when I asked Scott Turner in my backyard yesterday, like, why can't he keep a job when he's so damn good and such a nice guy? He told me his theory is that he has opinions and he, he, you know,

he stands up for certain principles and, and he's not exact. He's not what I would call a yes man. Is it possible that when you have these, like I'm thinking of like a Bob McCowan or somebody like that, where you're not a controllable, you're not necessarily a controllable asset, if you will.

Like control is a big part of this. I would think on on some level. Well, you could, you know, to me, what it's all become is that, and the people you mentioned, and what can they do if you're Rogers, if you're Shaw, if you're Bell Media, and you have a guy like Dan O'Toole or Rod Black or, you know, Rogers,

you have a Don Cherry or any number of those poor people who were let go there. They're sitting in the boardroom and they're going now, and this is all three of these entities, they're sitting in the boardroom going, now how is a Rod Black getting more people to pick up their phone and look at their tiny little screens? Or how is this person getting another person to stream something on their iPad? So everything they do now is based on content for streaming. That's what I believe.

I mean, that's something, again, that you don't hear much of, but they're mainly interested in your wireless life. They're not really interested in, you know, who makes you happy. They want to know what wireless you got, how much will you pay, what will you stream, what are you watching on?

Jeff understands how to deliver the real talk when he makes his toronto mike debut he's fantastic and it's only going to get better but i need to take a moment to thank some uh awesome partners that helped make this all happen i want to thank great lakes brewery uh they were the first sponsor of toronto mike and i'm a loyal guy i'll never forget that it's delicious, fresh craft beer brewed right here in Southern Ontario, free delivery in the GTA. So, uh, enjoy great lakes, Palma pasta. Wow. If I want authentic Italian food, uh, I know where I'm going. It's palmapasta.com. They're in, uh, they're in Oakville. They're in Mississauga. They're delicious. Scott Turner, you know, he wasn't going to leave my backyard yesterday without his lasagna. I think that's

why he made the trek from wherever the heck Scott Turner's living these days. But much love to Palmapasta. Speaking of good food, Scott's also excited about his chef drop. And I wish I could give this to Jeff, but Jeff lives in Prince Edward Island, which is not in Southern Ontario. But if you live in Southern Ontario and you go to chefdrop.ca, you check out the great restaurants and chefs

that are making, preparing meal kits for home delivery, use the promo code F-O-T-M-B-O-G-O. That's buy one, get one. Because you can buy one and get one 50% off. It's a fantastic deal. Just use that promo code at chefdrop.ca. StickerU.com. They're in Liberty Village, but they're also in PEI because they're everywhere you have an internet connection. Go to stickeru.com. The decals behind me here, the stickers I give out to guests from the Toronto Mike logo on it, all wonderfully produced by that fantastic company. Much love for the support I receive from Ridley Funeral Home. Shout out to Brad at Ridley Funeral Home. And Mike Majewski, he's in the know in Mimico,

but he's really kicking butt in the whole GTA. Number 14 RE-MAX sales specialist last year. Go to realestatelove.ca. Reach out to Mike Majeski if you're looking to buy and or sell in the next six months. And let Mike know. Toronto Mike sent you. It really, really helps the show. And last but not least, if you're looking for a good podcast where Nancy McKay sits down, I don't know if she's

sitting down. I believe she is, but it's definitely fireside chats with interesting executives and thought leaders. Go to McKay's CEO forums and subscribe to their podcast, the CEO Edge podcast. I post new episodes on torontomike.com. And I really appreciate their support. And I appreciate you guys for listening. I love all the FOTMs. I'm reeling. I'm literally reeling because I saw the note from Rod Black. And he's one of my all-time favorite guests of Toronto Mic'd, and I'm glad that I was able to chat with somebody who worked with him, Jeff Hutchinson, as the news broke. And I'll just let you know, I've already sent a note to Rod Black

and asked him to call me, because I would love to speak with that man, that beautiful, beautiful creature. Peace and love to Rod Black. Thank you for listening. Let's get to some more real talk from Jeff Hutchison. Great, great, great points here. And now I'm thinking of the Fan 590, which is a station I listen to an awful lot in the, well, basically from its

inception in, you know, during these great Blue Jay years. And eventually I do want to ask you about Blue Jay's banner. So note to self, don't forget to do that. But 590 recently they let go a couple of, I think, Blue Jay years. And eventually I do want to ask you about Blue Jay's banner. So note to self, don't forget to do that. But, uh, five 90 recently, they let go a couple of, I think highly paid people, Scott MacArthur and Richard Deitch and,

their morning show. Now, actually the whole lineup to me is, is, and I'm not even, I totally like as a podcaster and independent podcaster, I totally, I think it might be in many regards the right move,

but what they have now are basically podcasts that record live on the radio. And even these personnel they brought in, the morning show, rather green, but I know this gentleman, Blake Murphy, who's been on the show, I know him as a podcaster. Like he used to write for The Athletic and cover the Raptors,

but he's a podcaster. And a lot of these people, William Liu and a bunch of these people you'll hear on the Fan 590 right now are from this digital space. And now they're just recording their podcasts live on the radio, essentially. Well, and I believe they've eliminated the updates.

Yeah, they're gone. Yeah, you're right. Because that would interfere. So again, it's what are, and where do people listen to podcasts? Hello. On their wireless device. Correct. I mean,

it, it, it really, I mean, and I'm sure you know this, the, the YYZ sports media guys in Toronto. Yeah.

He's actually in Seattle. He's in Seattle. And then Mike in Boston, or I don't even know them by their handle. I actually have, I've had coffee a couple of times with Mike in Boston. Yes. Yeah.

So I'm saying is that when, when, when those guys talk about all these changes and list all this stuff and some of the comments, because you can never unplug yourself completely from your business, unfortunately. But then I read some of the comments and I think, wow, you know, Bob McCallum is never coming back to the fan or this is, because they just won't pay them they just won't do it right and that's where we're at and now you're you're you know now you're at this point where you've got a radio station which really is now and by the way rogers warned us they were

doing this they said they were going to make the move to digital right and so no one should have been surprised but i to me to me they're sort of finally getting it on the radio side. Interesting. Okay, now it's funny that we talk about these media parts of Rogers and Bell as almost like annoyances and hassles to the bean counters and the shareholders. Like, why don't they get out of the media business? Like, why not just sell the internet and phone packages that we all want to pay sorry go ahead i know i mean my answer to that is i think it's too expensive for anybody else to get in

you know quite frankly who would want to buy ctv and because you know what you know what a new owner would do they'd walk into ctv, oh, that person's making too much, and that person's making too much. I mean, that's the question is who on earth would want to buy them? And quite frankly, with everybody cord cutting and moving to streaming, your revenue streams are constantly sort of on a down spin a little bit in the TV side. Right. Wow.

Maybe when you're rock bottom, I'll jump in. All right, so we're going to do a little Tar in the TV side. Right. Wow. Maybe when you're rock bottom, I'll jump in. All right. So we're going to do a little Tarantino magic. We're going to go back and then get us back to current day. But I do want to play a clip.

In fact, again, I had trouble finding Bowling for Dollars audio, but I did find my friend, Retro Ontario, has something on Facebook. So I'm now going to play this from Facebook.

Hopefully this sounds a bit better than the Bowling for Dollars audio here. Let me see how this works. By default it's muted. The concept of pitching on the major league level is in a constant change mode. Starting pitchers no longer have to be concerned about complete games. What once was a source of pride is now merely an oddity.

Last season, for instance, Blue Jays pitchers accounted for only 18 complete pitching performances. Well, it's nice to see more complete ballgames because that gives your relief pitchers a lot of rest. There's times that Mark Eichhorn went in three, four days in a row. So I found a, this is from 1988, by the way. This is CKCO Blue Jays banter. That's Bill Inkle talking to Al Widmar, who was the pitching coach at the time. I recognize that. Yeah.

Do you want to know, and first of all, that TV Labatt, who actually commissioned, you know, we were out there in Little Old Kitchener, and we kind of started doing a show, did it for a year, and somehow it caught the eye of John Hudson, who at the time was the head of tv labatt and um when you played that intro that's the same intro that was the blue jays

music at the time as well right labatt's blue jays baseball right exactly it was labatt and this was labatt blue jay bander and that was the exact same so john hudson and then at that point as well tom mckee who was a legendary cBC broadcaster, he'd then become the kind of producer, game day producer of the Blue Jays game. So every now and then we'd run into Tom McKee. But Bill and I did that show, I think from 82 to 94. and it just really, I mean, I give it to Bill Inkall on this, because he had the kind of the hustle, he ran into John Hudson and said, hey, we're doing a show, and I think John said, well, send it to me, and you know, the thing I've always been proudest about with that show is that it ended up running across the CTV network, and it was one of the first, if not the first sports show produced by a local entity outside of Toronto that was a network show. Like, to me, it was always stunning that John Hudson at TV Labatt time just didn't say,

we're moving this to CFDL. But we went ahead and did it. And for me, I mean, during that period of time, I would be the one to go on the road and we would fly. I mean, at one point there, I was at every American League ballpark in the major leagues in that 11-year span. And what an 11 years. Like, I just want to point out that these are the best 11 years.

I actually, I start following this team. 82 is when I kind of discover baseball and 83 is when I really dive in. And by 84, I'm like hooked on the, I know Detroit got off to that start, but then we did try to claw back and I was always watching the box, checking out the, you know, got off to that start, but then we did try to claw back and I was always watching the box, checking out the, you know, the,

the box scores and the standings and how many games back of the Tigers are we now, you know? And so that span from like, yeah, 82 to 93. What a team, what a team. It was, it was like 85 was the, almost, it was the ball off the top of the fence when they lost to Kansas city. And then I think it was 87. We had gone to Detroit for that excruciating seven straight losses. I remember standing in that dressing room,

talking to Ernie Witt and Bobby Cox and you know, just that I'd never seen anything like it at all. I'm still Jeff. I'm still haunted by that 87 season. All they had to do was win one. It was unbelievable. And my boy, George Bell, who I still

love. In fact, let me just play this very quickly. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto Mike. Nice. I have to play that now. He literally stopped hitting. He was the MVP that now. He literally stopped hitting. He was the MVP that year. He had 47 dingers, but he just stopped hitting.

I think there was a, if I'm not mistaken, there was a critical error by Manny Lee at shortstop in that series on the game that they could have won and everything else. And, of course, Tony Fernandez and Ernie Witt went down with the injuries. Right. Yeah. Right. It was, I mean,

we would do, and you know, we would do, I think we did up to 30 to 35 shows a year on that thing. I mean, I can remember flying to Houston to interview Jesse Barfield the year after he won the home run title with 40 homers. I walk into Jesse

Barfield's house in Houston. First of all, I can't believe we're there from Toronto. But secondly, he's got this kind of office that had all his accomplishments on. And his gold glove thing was there. His silver slugger award for the home runs was there. And the only thing he picked up to show me was a mason jar with the bone chip they took out of his elbow that he had kept. It was unbelievable. And we flew from Houston to, we were going to Timonium, Maryland,

to interview the late Mike Flanagan at the time. And we ended up landing in Washington, and we drove in a blinding snowstorm to Mike Flanagan's house in Timonium, Maryland, which is near Baltimore. We knocked on the door. He opened it, and he said, I knew you'd be here. You're Canadian. There was nobody on the streets.

There was nobody anywhere. I mean, just all those little memories I have from Blue Jays banter. Like, I was there when Buck Martinez broke his leg in Seattle, and Gorman Thomas came home and stepped over him and gave himself up because they used to be teammates. I was standing right at field level watching it. So just all those little memories for me are really, really terrific.

That's one of the great plays in Blue Jays history right there. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Wow. And I will say, as a diehard, again, a diehard Jays fan, shout out to Ken Daniels, who actually packaged up a whole bunch of retro Jays stuff because I was a big Drive of 85 guy.

That 85 Jays is still my favorite Blue Jays team. I got to say, I loved Blue Jays banter because I was so hungry for the content and I'm trying to think now, it might be like a Sunday afternoon or something. I don't know. It would just show up in the TV. The TV guy.

Various times, like Kitchener carried it Saturday something. I don't know. It would just show up in the TV. The TV guy. It ran it various times. I think Kitchener carried it Saturday afternoons, but I'm not sure when CFTO ran it. So it wasn't a single... We shipped it to all the stations and then they ran it at whatever time they wanted. And it would scratch the itch. It's not like today where you can drown. It's overwhelming

now. But at the time, you were so hungry for some Blue Jays content. The fact this show existed was just awesome. You know, it makes me even today, it makes me happy to hear you say that because one thing about the TV business and the radio business and the media business writing is that you never know who's watching. You have no idea if anybody's watching. And I'll never forget the day that I, we were in at the Skydome once and Gord Ash came walking by and he goes, Oh, there's the guys from Blue Jays banter. That meant so much to me that a guy from the team knew about the show. That's, that's, that's where you were when you worked a little.

I mean, when I talk about the, the kind of the thing about working not in Toronto, I remember one of the first times I filled in on Canada AM, I was working with Valerie and Keith Morrison and I was filling in for Dan Matheson and Doug Bassett loved Valerie. And he would come down to the studio every now and then. And he was, you know, he was, there was, they don't make him anymore. They don't make him anymore. And I remember he came down and he went, Valerie, how you doing? Hey, Keith,

what's going on? Hey, Kitchener, what's happening? That's, that's how he referred to me. And I thought, Oh my God, he knows I'm from Kitchener. Wow. But there is a stigma. You know, there are many great broadcasters outside of the major centers in this country who, A, just never get a chance, don't want to get a chance, or, you know, are just comfy where they are. So, you know, I was glad to be kind of able to make a little bit of a mark being from Kitchener.

I always thought that was great. And the only reason Blue Jays banter comes to an end, right, is because CTV loses the television rights to Jays games. Yeah, that. And I think too that it was winding down to an end simply because the way it used to work was Bill and I would go down and do the interviews and then they would get kind of, we'd piece them together. And then I would kind of take the show to the editor and away we would go. And then my job at CKCO changed. I became the regular Monday to Friday anchor.

And so the whole component of being able to work on the show with Bill left. And I think it just became too much for Bill at the time, who was close to retiring. I think Bill actually retired in 92 or 93. So, you know, I think that the show came to a natural conclusion. But you're right. That was, you know, look at it this way. Blue Jay Banter ended and the Fan 590 starts.

Coincidence? I think not. Right. Okay, so why don't we do this since we've talked quite a bit about Canada AM. Just share with us, if you don't mind, like how did you end up with the gig at Canada AM? Rufus, if you don't mind, how did you end up with the gig at Canada AM? So in 1988, I was the Bob and Luge commentator for the Olympics in Calgary for CTV. They had decided to, again, I guess go with what you would call a youth movement.

And so my boss, Bill Inkle, I think had done five Olympics prior to that. And I did Calgary in 1988. had done five Olympics prior to that, and I did Calgary in 1988. Quick aside, if I may, Lloyd Robertson and I are the only two people who did both Calgary and Vancouver, and they were 22 years apart, so Lloyd and I were the only two on CTV who did that, so anyway, and so 1988, if you're, you might not be 100% familiar, but we got raked over the coals quite a bit. There was a lot of issues out there. There was a lot of technical issues. And we got raked over the coals quite a bit. So the next Olympics at that point was 1992 because they hadn't gone every other year at that point. So then my daughter, Sarah, was born two days before I left for the Olympics.

And I was gone for a month at that time. born two days before I left for the Olympics and I was gone for a month at that time. So in 1992 I was Barcelona was the next one up and it was, no, Norway. Albertville?

No, that was anyway, oh no, because it was summer. So it was Barcelona. That was the next one up summer. And so I had the choice. Dan Matheson had called me wanting to know if I wanted to fill in for him on Canada AM. Well, he went to the Olympics and in one of the greatest decisions I ever made. And also, I think not wanting to be away from that long again, I said, sure. So in 1992, I went down and began to fill in. And I'll tell you a story. You know,

you were talking about money before. So a producer by the name of Wendy Day, some people might remember that name from Global. She was the executive producer at Canada AM. So she made the call, said Dan Matheson suggested I call you. Do you want to come and fill in on Canada AM? I said, sure. She said, come down and see me in three weeks. So I did. I walk into her office. A lady by the name of Ann Kerr is there because Wendy Day has been fired. So, or at least left. So I'm sitting there and Ann Kerr goes, you know, so you can do this for us? And I'm going, yeah. I'm thinking, you want to see a tape or anything? No, it's good. Blah, blah, blah. So then she's, oh, wait a minute. I've got to, oh, I got to go check something. So she leaves and I'm sitting in her office and she comes back. Blah, blah, blah. So then she's, oh, wait a minute. I've got to go check something.

So she leaves, and I'm sitting in her office, and she comes back. She goes, you know, I just want to let you know that the pay is $472. So I'm sitting there thinking, okay. And I remember this. $472, okay. So how much am I making a week in Kitchener? Well, it's more than that. And she goes, a day. So that was the accurate rate for that at that time. So

I then spent the next five years and Jerry Dobson had been the fill-in and somehow I kind of became the go-to guy. And I, Mike, I'll tell you what, there were times for three weeks in a row, I would get up at three o'clock in Kitchener where i was living drive to toronto do canada am drive back do noon and six go to bed at seven get up at three drive to toronto wow and i would do three weeks at a time um just to keep on canada am and so uh that's literally kind of how it started there were a couple of bumps in the road there uh when dan was made the host full-time, they brought Rod in. But Rod never really wanted to do that show. I mean, I don't think it's a... No, no, he's been on my show.

In fact, yeah, four times. I heard the one show there where he mistook me for Sandy Rinaldo, but that's a whole other... And Sandy's still there. Oh, yeah. Which is, that's quite the story because I feel Sandy's there.

I asked Christine Bentley about this because Christine Bentley, I don't know if you've heard her appearance on Toronto Mike, but that's when my eyes opened up to how it really, how the sausage is really made. And then I'm, I'm finding out about, she got the tap on the shoulder and they said to her, we can do this one of two ways. You can walk out with a box. Christine Bentley. Yeah. Christine Bentley. I lived through that one. Yeah.

Yeah. And they said, you can walk out of a box or we can uh have a cake for you and say you're retiring and she says uh she didn't want to retire but again she chose that option because it was less humiliating on some level but i asked her about sandy because you know sandy's a i won't i won't say how do you say a woman mature woman, mature woman. She's a mature woman. No, I mean, I think Sandy's 71. She looks absolutely fantastic. Right. But she never, she never got the tap on the shoulder, I'm guessing.

So not. And she started, I believe, as Don Cameron's secretary, one of the executives at CTV. Wow. And was able to work her way up. I mean, you know, that's a good point there is whenever you see, and did this just happen to somebody? Whenever you see someone announcing that they're leaving on Friday and it's Wednesday, it generally isn't their choice. No, Kevin Frankish came back to,

cause he lied to everybody. Cause he was keeping this, you know, he was telling this, I guess you can sometimes, I guess you negotiate the story as part of your settlement or whatever. Like, here's the story, and then you tell the story. And then he came back, though. There's an episode of Kevin Frankish coming back to tell the truth on that he didn't want to leave. Of course he didn't want to leave. They tapped him on the shoulder and said, your last day is Friday.

Yeah, and, you know, the story there gets made up. Well, I'll be back, and how many times do you hear this? I'll be doing special projects. I'll be coming back and doing special projects. Yeah, go ahead. Having just had this conversation, you recall who we talked about at the beginning of this, announcing on a Wednesday that he's leaving on a Friday.

Ben Mulroney. Who was it? Again, Ben, if you're listening, I have no idea, but it's easy to speculate. That's for sure. And not only that, being retired is the greatest time to speculate ever because there's no consequences. And with Ben, again, I hear Ben's a nice guy. And I know Ben was making a very good salary, but that must be tough to work in the media, knowing that you're making good money and that puts a huge target on your bank. Well, and you know what? I mean, I would think Rod just learned that, you know, that just became a realization for Rod today. I got a phone, Rod. I'm actually, my phone, since that story broke while we were chatting, and my phone's been blowing up as if it was like, as if Rod's my, my father, my uncle or something like you,

you should see the text. I'm getting so many messages about cause Rod FOTMs associate Rod Black so closely with the program because he's honestly, he's a, he's just so awesome when he, when he pops on. And this news is really making a lot of people sad. Yeah. It's interesting. It really is. You know, one thing about that clip you played of, this is

random, but that clip you played of Blue Jay Banner. Had the Eagles take it to the limit in there? I heard that, yeah. Like, if the Eagles ever heard that, that would be $250,000. So you're telling me

that was not licensed appropriately. I believe it. I believe it was not like, and I mean, we got, we got dinged at Canada. I am a couple of times for running video that I thought was fine. And same with the CKCO.

We got letters of warning at CKCO about certain things, but you know, that's the, that's the city TV story. So I love chatting with the old, like the Moses city TV people from the, you know, eighties and stuff.

And that was what they would do. Like they would literally, they would take a song, let's say a song by Elton John. I'm still standing or something. And this is now the theme song for this show. And then they would never get, they would just beg forgiveness when they were,

when they got the season's assist or whatever. They never asked permission to, or, or, or licensed it appropriately. Oh yeah. I got, I got, I did a little segment called things I learned on the internet today and I ran some video on that and I'd never been called into an office before and I was called in twice in this space to say, what are you running that for?

Right. But you're exactly right. It's better to get that than permission. Jeff, my friend, I guess I'd like to close by finding out how is retirement working out for you? You seem happy, but how are things going? Well, you know, I mean, it's great. And like everybody in this pandemic, it's been tough. I went almost 550 days. I have six grandkids in Kitchener, Waterloo, and I went almost 550 days without seeing them.

So that was the toughest part for me. But aside from that, I mean, it's great out here. I had no problem retiring. I just was ready to go. I loved it. I loved the fact that I could go. You know, I went at 62, and that was fantastic. And, you know, here's the other thing.

I just don't miss living in Toronto. You know, I had a condo there, we had a place there, but I just don't miss it, and I, I, I love it out here, and I'm very, you know, in, in normal times, I'm an hour and a half plane ride home, and, you know, so, no, it's, it's, it's been a great time, now, I will say this, it's, you know, I've been going to Florida quite a bit in the winter, and so, boy, spend a pandemic winter in PEI when you can't go anywhere. That's a little tough. Right. My wife is a teacher, and she works,

so you try and make sure I go walking and that kind of stuff. What was the name of that bowling alley in Waterloo where you feel Waterloo lanes? Is it, do you know if it's still there? No, it was downstairs at the Waterloo town square. That's how we used to say,

you know, filmed it. Waterloo lanes downtown at the Waterloo square. And, uh, they redeveloped Waterloo square, but I don't know if the bowling alley is still there or not. Well,

because I, I'm now spending, uh, time in Waterloo because my oldest lives in Waterloo because he's going to Laurier. And I'm going to make it like, I'm going to check out if that bowling alley is still there. And if it's still there, I'll take a selfie for you. Well, I'll tell you what, KW, and I lived there for 20 years.

That's a great town, Kitchener, Waterloo. That's a great town. It's a great town to live in. He's still a fl great town. Kitchener-Waterloo. That's a great town. It's a great town to live in. Lisa Laflamme is from Kitchener. Oh, see, there's somebody else I need to get on Toronto, Mike. Lisa Laflamme. We'll see. Oh, yeah.

Well, she's CTV. Although you can ask her about being in a band with Jeff Hutchison for five years. Yeah, I hear she's quite the singer. You had the Newsapalooza, right? We had a band going. A bunch of people at CKCL. There was six of us. We played five years.

And then she got a job at News Channel and the whole thing went... Jeff, this was a pleasure, man. I think we're going to have to do a sequel at some point, but I thoroughly enjoyed this. Yeah, I would love to, Mike. And thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it. And you

really went into the archives to pick out some of that stuff, which quite frankly, that Blue Jays Bandler intro, I hadn't heard in, again, 25 years. So really good stuff. Cool. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our 931st show.

You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Jeff, what's your Twitter handle? At Jeff Hutchinson. Follow Jeff at Jeff Hutchinson. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery or at Great Lakes Beer. Chef Drop is at GetChefDrop. McKay's CEO Forums.

They're at McKay's CEO Forums. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home. They're at Ridley FH. And Mike Majeski of Remax Specialists Majeski Group, they're at Majeski Group Homes on Instagram. See you all next week. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you.

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