Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jeff Rogers: Toronto Mike'd #1241

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

In this 1241st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Jeff Rogers about how he steered the careers of The Pursuit of Happiness, Crash Test Dummies, Rusty and other great Canadian bands. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, the Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Moment Lab, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1241 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta.

Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Season four of Yes, We Are Open, the award-winning podcast from Moneris. Hosted by FOTM, Al Grego. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling

our electronics of the past. The Moment Lab, brand marketing and strategy, PR, advertising and production. You need The Moment Lab and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut is Jeff Rogers. Welcome, Jeff.

Hey, Mike. I have to make an edit in my intro. I stumbled there because I realized I was going to add this FOTM Al Grego, a very important part. And then I realized I had the word in the wrong place. Oh my goodness. Listen, I'm so happy to meet you. Thank you for dropping by, Jeff. All right. Nice to meet you too. Happy 420. Did you celebrate? I do not celebrate.

I don't either. I had a sponsor for, I think, over a year. I had a cannabis sponsor. And it always felt a little disingenuous because I didn't partake particularly often. But you don't partake either. I don't partake. Did you ever partake? Yeah, when I was in my younger days, I partook. You partook.

You no longer partake. Okay. Well, happy 420 regardless. Thank you. I'm going to drop a couple of names. First of all, it's kind of a small world. So I will thank right off the bat, I want to thank Rob Pruce. Oh, yeah.

Oh, right. Rob Pruce, of course. He connected us. He connected us. Well, there's two people that connected us, him and Brian Dunn. Yeah. So, okay, here's how I, you tell me if I get this wrong. I remember Rob Pruce, he said, he slid into my DMs and he said, and this is what he wrote.

Hey, you should get jeff rogers on the show he was mentioned on the uh fotm you oh we have a dm group for fotms on twitter and you were mentioned there and also he says you managed the pursuit of happiness and crash test dummies and rob says you managed him for a period of time after he left Spoons. I did. And he said you might have played a role in him joining Honeymoon Suite. He said you're a super cool guy. And I said, Rob, you had me at hello.

So Rob, I think he gave me your address. We cooked this up very quickly. But then two other F fotms since then reached out brian dunn uh we're going to talk about rob pruse more in a minute but how do you know fotm brian dunn oh well brian i've met brian when i worked at aux tv do you remember aux tv yeah this is can i is this bite tv well there was bite tv and then aux tv was the music channel that came out of bite tv it was a separate channel was Was Alan Cross doing something on Aux? Alan Cross, yeah.

We brought him in to basically do a chat show. Yes, I do remember Aux TV. He played cool music on Aux. Yeah, we played lots of cool music. And I came in before there was a name for it. Raja Khanna brought me in. And I met Brian. I think I probably met Brian the first day I arrived in the offices of Byte TV.

Okay, here's a jam. Let me see. Can you name this jam? Let me bring it in for a bit. It's a very 420-friendly jam here. Some Iggy Pop? No, but I'm putting it on the spot here. But this is a song by Groovy Religion.

Oh, it is. Oh, my God. Right. Of course it is. It's from... Yeah. Well, apparently, Brian Dunn is cousins with somebody in Groovy Religion. Right.

He's cousins with William New, the lead vocalist of Groovy Religion. This is from Tom. Is this from Tom? Maybe. Or is it from Cannabis? I think it's from Tom. I think it's from Tom. I think it's from Cannabis. What is the name of it? Cannabis. I think it's from that one.

Yeah, they celebrate 420. I was going to say you won't find a more 420 friendly band, I think, than Groovy Religion. That was one where we put in the CD, which we released on Handsome Boy, we put rolling papers. So each one came with a rolling paper in it. And then there was a contest to win the miraculous bong,

which was I had this guy, John Robinson, who's an OCAD glassblowing teacher and amazing artist. And he made a six-foot-long glass bong. Wow. And he did not partake in 420 so he had to consult a lot of information. But you would have to, he had wires that he wrapped up and it hung from

the ceiling and I guess it would go like a didgeridoo. Right. With sort of glass flames coming out the bottom and he etched in the side of it Groovy Religion and Handsome Boy. I guess this is so many things i want to say firstly i've had both of well two of tommy chong's daughters have been

on this program oh really wow shout out to tommy chong and uh precious and ray don chong who have been on the program it's so so we've already established rob pruse he slid in my dms he says you got to get jeff rogers on the show i think this is shortly after the crash test dummies episode of toronto mike did you hear the crash test you know what i didn't hear it i heard about it but i gotta hear it yeah okay i'll listen to it it's mandatory okay so then rob makes this happen and we'll talk about rob in a bit but then brian dunn talks to me about how you managed his cousin's band and he's buddies with you and you mentioned the ox right out of the the bite tv music channel but then if that's not enough i this is yesterday because you're in the calendar for today i know jeff rogers is making his toronto mic debut on 420 it's in the calendar and i get a text from fotm

blair packham this is yesterday and it's i haven't i didn't even i don't even think i promoted you were coming on on twitter i think just out of nowhere he said something to the effect of, have you ever had Jeff Rogers on Toronto Mike? He's like, you need to have Jeff Rogers on Toronto Mike. And I said, he's literally on the show tomorrow. So that's three FOTMs in a short period of time who said, get Jeff Rogers on the show. Well, and on my way here, my phone rang.

I didn't answer it because I have a little car. Can I guessir packham wasn't blair because he knew you were coming over today what did blair have to say you didn't i didn't talk to him i didn't answer he was gonna give you some tips and tricks i think for uh stay hot on the mic stay on the mic because uh guests like to get comfy back here and i'm like no i like you like five centimeters in front of this thing okay so i think when it comes to name recognition i don't think a lot of the listenership is going to see the name jeff rogers and go finally jeff rogers on the show but when you dig into the you know the bio of jeff rogers it's awfully exciting i pulled some jams not just that groovy religion and we're going to talk about it but do you want to like uh maybe if we go way back and we start at

the beginning you're uh like where does it begin for do you want to like, maybe if we go way back and we start at the beginning, you're like, where does it begin for you? Because I was reading that it started for you when you were 16 years old. Yeah, that's true. Welland?

That's true from Welland, yeah. So give me the, like what gets you started so young in the entertainment business? Well, I just, I lived in a small town. There really was not much to do in that small town

except for sort of wander around, get into trouble, that kind of thing. They have a canal there, right? Yeah, there's a canal. You wish for a holiday called 420. So I was there and I liked music, right? So I liked Kiss and I liked other stuff like that Rush. I liked Rush. I liked Max Webster. Other stuff like that Rush. I liked Rush.

I liked Max Webster. And then I was reading an article. There was a magazine called Cheap Thrills Magazine. You ever heard of Cheap Thrills? Yes, I have. Yes. So Cheap Thrills, which was put out by CPI, the predecessor to Live Nation, what we know is Live Nation now. And they had this magazine.

I think they put it out because they had a Cheap Thrills club as part of CPI. had this magazine i think they put it out because they had a cheap thrills club as part of cpi okay but one of the issues there was a cover story about michael cole and it had a picture of a guy not michael cole on the cover in a dark room with sunglasses on sitting at a desk smoking a cigar and there was an article about michael cole and how he started cpi and what cpi was all about yeah and i used to hang out at the Sam the Record Man store in Welland and I'd go on my lunch break from the grocery store I worked at and talk to the guy in the ticket booth who owned the store and he'd sell concert tickets and I really liked that guy.

And they were always super nice to me and I bought records from them and that sort of thing. And I remember that day saying to him, I just read this article about CPI and I want to become a concert promoter. And he said, are you rich? And I said, no. And the opposite of rich. And he said, well, then you're never going to be a concert promoter. And then I walked out thinking I'm going to be a concert promoter. And then a few weeks later, my mom was reading the Well and Tribune and there was a little, and then she knew that I had this idea that I wanted to have a business.

And she said, oh, there's an article in here. It says you get a thousand dollars interest free from the Ontario Youth Secretariat if you want to start a summer business. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to be a concert promoter. So I had written letters to all the addresses on the back of the vinyl albums that I had by Max Webster and Rush and all that. To SRO Records, to a company called The Agency. That was the prevalent agency in this area of Canada at that time. And the only one that wrote back to me actually was the agency. And they sent me

a roster, no other information. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to call these guys. And then they went through this process. You had to go to the chamber of commerce and you had to write up a balance sheet, an income statement, and a proposal for your business. And then the local Royal bank would give you a bridge loan of a thousand dollars to, to do this. So you had to run through this business process, which I knew nothing about. And so I did it.

I filled out these forms and I said, I was going to promote concerts. I wrote to, I called the phone number on this roster and I looked at it and the top name on it was David Blustein. Now that I can't call that guy, that guy's now my friend. His name is blue. He's one of the greatest guys in the Canadian music industry, but he was the president of the company, but he's on top.

And then there was somebody on the bottom and I thought, well, I'll call the person, I'll ask for the person in the middle. Cause I thought maybe the person in the middle will get back to me. And that guy's name is Steve Prendergast. He, um, Steve called me back. And he was like, okay, what do you, what do you know? What high school do you, are you buying bands for? And I'm like, well, I, I do go to a high school, but I, I don't, I'm not on the student council or anything like that. I just want to do my own show. And he's like, okay. And he pitched me a couple of things. He pitched me street heart. He pitched me ACDC acdc wow and and after probably talking

to him for a year and then getting this money i booked bb gabor yeah uh and the opening acts were johnny and the g rays popular spies and the drummer for popular spies was um graham stairs who you might know and uh and then another band called rcs that were a local band and i decided to become their manager they had a song called Give Me Some Face. RCS, okay. Yeah, they were not, I think they did put out a 45, but that was probably the extent of what they did. And this is a Welland band.

They were a Welland band, and then we did the show on August 8th, 1980, and I convinced my high school teacher to drive me to Toronto for my meetings and give me 300 bucks towards the show. And then, like, we really didn't have any money when I was a kid. And my mom gave me some money, probably all of her money. And I put on the show and it happened, right? That's amazing.

Yeah. So basically, I think that show broke even. And then I put on another show after that with like a Doors cover band from Buffalo. I did a few other shows. My biggest disappointment during that time was I was promoting an FM show. And I was riding around on my bicycle putting up posters and I was making them in the shape of FM on the sides of walls. And the poster just said, FM is coming. And I had, I really felt like this was going to sell out. And then they canceled. And I'm actually going to see Cameron Hawkins from FM on Saturday.

And I have told, I've retold him the story. And then I did a couple of things. And then Steve, the agent, offered me a job in Toronto. And I came to work for him. And he managed a band that eventually became Honeymoon Suite. Okay, this is all coming back to Rob Pruce. Okay. Yeah. But how, in 1980, for your high school in Welland, how were you offered the ACDC?

Well, I don't know. He was just like, oh. That one doesn't make sense to me. Well, you know, it's 1980. ACDC are not as big as you think. So when does Back in Black come out? Isn't that 80? Isn't it?

Well, I don't know. I'd have to look it up. But it's like, it's right around, it could have been even 79 or 80, right? Okay, okay. But it's like, but it's just,

that's still new. Like, see, records now when they come out and they're big immediately or seemingly big immediately. Right. It's not like then, like they were a slow burn back then.

And you make a good point because a new lead singer for Back in Black and that album comes out in July, 1980. But if you were booking an early 1980, yeah, maybe that's just a pre blow up. Right. Yeah.

And the, and then it's also weird that's that the agency would have even been booking some dates or soliciting dates on ACDC, but they probably were like kicking around, not, you know, with a new singer and not knowing what they were going to do and trying to find some shows. Anyway, I didn't get the show. And when I think about like at that time, what they got Highway to Hell and Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap.

Like there's, it's not the, you know, when we look now, it's with Back in Black, what a monster album and everything. So yeah. Now I want you to crack open your Great Lakes beer lakes beer okay so this is like a pause in the action here and i got a lot of questions here if you want to bring this which one yeah uh right in front of the mic this is a uh a lager from great lakes so yeah lift that up put it right in front of the mic and crack that open all right thank you great lakesy, for sending over fresh craft beer for my guest, Jeff Rogers. Cheers.

I almost called you Jeff Douglas. Jeff Douglas was on As It Happens. Oh, okay. You might. I remember Jeff Douglas. Yeah. And then he moved out east. Like, he was living in this area.

And then he moved back home, which I guess is the Maritimes. But he's probably most famous for the I Am Canadian Molson ads. Oh, he's the actor in am canadian oh really yeah jeff so anyways if i call you jeff douglas it's a compliment i think that was a cool thank you okay so i i was gonna say let's play some rcs i don't have any rcs but that'd be nice let's get i promise first of all rob says hello rob pruse rob pruse has become a dear friend we talk about him often maybe too often come. Come on, too much Pruess on this show. But how did you get Rob Pruess into Honeymoon Suites?

Well, that's a long time later, really. That's late. Okay, well, I don't want to skip. Like, if you want to keep walking in a chronological order. But at that time, I meet Rob. So I moved to Toronto. I worked for this guy, Steve. Steve's friends with a guy named Dale Heslop.

And I meet Dale at the Bus Parcel Express station, which figured prominently in music promotion at the time because you didn't digitally send things to people. Of course, you had to go to the Bus Parcel Express Station with a package you just set up and send it to the bus station in whatever town the band was going to play it. And I'd make the posters for Honeymoon Suite or whatever.

And I'd go down there and I'd send them off. So I meet Dale, who works for Ready Records. for honeymoon suite or whatever and i'd go down there and i'd send them off so we um i meet dale who works for ready records he's a and our guy for ready records at the bus parcel express station and anyway we have whatever we become good friends we have lots of interests in common and we start hanging out and then i'm going to blue peter shows and spoon shows and i'm hanging out with all of those people because they're on Ready Records. So Rob, I just got to be friends through Rob, and then whatever time he left Spoons

and whatever was going on at that time, we were pals. And there may have even been an Earl Jive connection and Beverly Hills connection at that time. Because I was friends with them. And they're really good friends with Rob too. And so they may have, I don't know if they might've had a tip of the hand there towards that, but Rob came into my office and he played me some stuff he was working on and which I loved. And then he also like, I mean,

at that time, Rob had created and invented the mashup and, but not credited for it because I didn't do a good job as his manager and get everybody to hear it. Cause I couldn't think of how you could clear the, these things. He was just like filling his keyboard full of samples, then creating music out of it. And it was spectacularly good. Wow. And so I started, could I ever hear any of this? Does this exist anywhere? Well, we'd have to ask Rob. Like, I mean, I'm, there could be a cassette or something around of it, but we definitely should ask Rob about it. I will find out for Rob.

And that, but the stuff was so cool. And then so Ray Coburn, who is also my good friend, left Honeymoon Suite. And Ray also calls himself Smash Hitley at times. And he makes music like that with the samples of the keyboard but um both two super talented guys and i was managing rob but it seemed like it was a pretty good opportunity for him so i recommended him even though he was my client and he then he joined honeymoon suite wow okay uh wild okay so i'm trying to think what was it lethal weapon that was the big honeymoon suite uh honeymoons he big Honeymoon Suite. He plays on that Lethal Weapon single. Oh, he plays on that track. That's funny, right?

Yeah. Because they hired me for something on that. I can't remember what it was. Oh, they hired me to get a photographer for them or something. And we went down to the set when they were shooting the video for Lethal Weapon in Toronto. I think it was just Johnny and Derry maybe on the set for that. No Mel Gibson on that set. He wasn't there.

Mel was not there. But they were shooting the movie, I think, at the time. The only reason I say that is because I remember the Iazzi crew being merciless in the shutting off of the lights. Okay.

Now, how is the beer? How is the... This beer is excellent. Thank you very much. You're going to take some home with you as well. That's courtesy of Great Lakes. Even better.

Do you enjoy Italian food? I do like Italian food. I'm sending you home with a large meat lasagna. It's frozen in my freezer right now. It's courtesy of Palma Pasta. Well, this is already worthwhile. It's actually too good a deal. Now, when I say it out loud, I'm like, what are you doing, Mike?

Like, this is food you could be eating tonight. My goodness, okay. So thank you, Palma. I had, Rick the Temp was here yesterday. Oh, was here yesterday and he was telling me because it's his second appearance. So he already had the meat lasagna and he says it's, it's like his Nona made. Okay.

This is delicious Italian lasagna. So you're going to love it. You're going to love it. So I'll send you one of it. So thank you, Paul. My pasta. Thank you.

Great lakes. A couple more gifts before, cause there's, I want to have some jams loaded up and we're going to talk about some big can con bands that you, uh, helped, uh, steer in their careers.

But Ridley Funeral Home are pillars of this community, and here's some measuring tape for you. Whoa. Jeff Rogers, you get a measuring tape. That's nice. Thank you. Courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Good people at Ridley Funeral Home. I will tell you about RecycleByElectronics.ca if you have any old tech, any old devices,

an old printer, an old fax machine. Who knows what you've got in the Rogers household. I may have a basement full of things like that. Don't throw it in the garbage, Jeff. It ends up in the landfill. There's a lot of chemicals in there. You need to safely recycle that. And to find out where to drop that off,

go to recyclemyelectronics.ca because EPRA has accredited only uh certain venues to take such product and again recycle my electronics.ca and there's a speaking of tech this is not antiquated and obsolete it is uh awesome and new this is a wireless speaker courtesy of manaris oh fantastic and what are you going to do with that you're going to jeff you're going to listen to season four of yes, We Are Open, which is an award-winning podcast from Moneris. It's hosted by FOTM El Grego, and you'll be inspired.

He's been traveling the country talking to small business owners about how they've overcome adversity and their success stories, and it'll inspire the heck out of you, Jeff. So you've got your speaker to listen to. Season four of Yes, We Are Open. All right, thank you. All right, I want to keep this chronological. So basically, take me to Crash Test Dummies. Okay.

So a lot of time, they're sort of the second big band that I had a chance to work with, of course, right? So Honeymoon Suites won? Well, no, then there's, then the Pursuit of Happiness. So what's first? The Pursuit of won? Well, no, then there's, then the Pursuit of Happiness. So what's first? The Pursuit of Happiness comes before the Dummies.

Okay, we're doing Pursuit of Happiness first. Yeah, so let's do that. Yeah, if we're going to go chronologically, it doesn't matter to me if we do it chronologically, but it's easy. It's easier to remember these things. Okay, let me brew though, put a pin in that

because just a little like, just a little warm up here. I just had Moe Berg on a couple of weeks ago for his second appearance. So the story is fresh in my head, Berg on a couple of weeks ago for his second appearance. So the story is fresh in my head, but just a minute of this, and then we're going to talk about Pursuit of Happiness. my parents. I don't get drunk just to spite them. I got my own reasons to drink now. I think I'll call my dad up and invite him. I can sleep until noon anytime I want, but there's not many days that I do. Gotta get up and take on that world. When you're're an idol it's no cliche, it's the truth

Cause I'm an adult now I'm an adult now I've got the problems of an adult I'm a hand on my shoulders, I'm an adult now Okay Jeff, I want the details of your ongoing experience with the Pursuit of Happiness. Is it in Toronto when you're introduced to Moberg? Yeah, so I meet them in Toronto. So at the time, a few things have happened.

So Much Music has started, and Much Music is on a cable, not on basic cable yet. Music is on a cable, not on basic cable yet. And they, but they went, but they were on cable. That's at the time of Honeymoon Suite. So through Honeymoon Suite, I know everybody well at Much Music. And I'm really good friends with Erica M. And we hang out and she's like, let's, I got to go interview this band at Larry's Hideaway. And it was Joni Daniels.

Do you know Joni Daniels? No. She was the producer of the indie show. I think it was called Indie Hour. And so Joni wants Eric to come to do the interview. I come and I'm going to see this band for the first time. And they're amazing. But I'd already been, I've been watching them a little bit on much music i can't remember but so so he does two recordings of this song you're listening to now so the one with todd

run grin with her love junk but he does it a few years before that uh he does it sort of an indie to kind of get it to get bookings and stuff yeah so. So before I manage them, they've recorded that and they've made the video and I'm now seeing that on, um, on much music. And, uh, so, uh,

and I love it. Like it's like, and I was thinking at that time, this is a funny thing. Yeah. Oh, and actually I, I'm jumping ahead in the story.

So I love the pursuit of happiness. I'm watching that video on TV and I'm thinking this is, I don't work for honeymoon suite anymore because I worked for another manager then, but now I'm out on my own and I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to manage. And, uh,

I manage a couple of bands and I'm like, wow, this band's so good. I wish that I could manage them, but there's no way they don't have a manager. Right. And then Joni Daniels says to me, would you,

you know, you could, could you manage my friend's band? And I was like, no, there's no way i'm too busy and i was working on a movie at the time uh so one of the reasons why i didn't want to do it i got a job working on a movie called hearts of fire bob dylan was in it and

rupert everett and fiona and they're shooting in toronto and somebody at warner canada roger desjardins got me this job got me hooked, and I was making like 400 bucks a week, and I'm like, didn't want to blow that. So I'm like, no, no, I'm too busy doing this. And she said, oh, well, they're really good, and they're playing tonight, and Erica's going to come and interview them. You know, come.

And it's, they're called The Pursuit of Happiness. I was like, The Pursuit of Happiness? Don't have a manager? Wow. And so I came to the show. They were amazing. I was almost scared. They were so great. And so I meet them and talk to them. manager wow and so i came to the show they're amazing i was almost scared they were they were

so great and um so i meet them and talk to them but i'm kind of trying to keep it cool because i don't want to blow this other job but i want to i do want to be their manager but i don't want to i don't want to lose money and uh then a couple of weeks later michael Michael Hollett puts them on the cover of Now Magazine. Right. And they're playing Elise Palace and it's sold out. And I go to that show and I get there and Ray Daniels, who manages Rush, is there. Val Azzoli, who's his partner, is there. I forget who, Skinny was there, William Tan.

Oh man, every manager was there and i'm like damn it i blew it why didn't i sign them when nobody was talking to them and it was the night of ben johnson's uh disgraceful win soul yeah in 88 yeah so it uh he um they anyway everybody leaves and i just wait at the bar and I stayed until everyone's gone. And I talked to them and then I said to them, how much did you guys get paid tonight? And it's sold out. And they're like, you know, 250 bucks or something. Right.

And I was like, well, why don't you, while you're trying to decide who should manage you, why don't you let me book some shows for you? So I called up, um, uh, Tony from 20 grand West and Tony's East. He also was a manager of Platinum Blonde. And they like to do Q107 shows up there. And Pursuit of Happiness were now on both CFNY and Q107. They were in the top five most requested on both stations at the same time, which probably is unheard of.

And, um, cause those are really been really. No, you're right. Because, you know, you mentioned bands like,

I don't know, Rush and Max Webster. Were those, well, I mean, usually a band was either a Q band or a CFNY band. I think Max, Max Webster would be both,

but. And now that I think about it, the whole song Spirit of Radio is about the David Marsden. Well, Rush wrote it about CFNY, but they weren't really getting played on CFNY. No, they weren't played. They were not. They just loved CFNY. Right. Well, Rush wrote it about CFNY, but they weren't really getting played on CFNY. No, they weren't played.

They were not. They just loved CFNY. Right. And so this is, but in that top five most requests, there's nobody at the same time. Right. And also my girlfriend at that time was Shirley McQueen, who was the-

Who's an FOTM, by the way. Oh, okay. Much like yourself now. Welcome to the club. She, Shirley was the one who did that show. Right. So I know what's going on there, too. And then I'm kind of freaking out.

But anyway, I call up Tony, and I said, oh, do you want to book the Pursuit of Happiness? And then I call up the people I know at Q107, because Honeymoon Suite had won Q107 homegrown contest. And I got to know Gary Slade and I got to know all the team there. And I was up there all the time too. And so I called them up. I'm like, Hey, do you want to present the pursuit of happiness at 20 grand West? I knew it was one of their favorite clubs to do shows. I mean, this is like up North, like in North York. Right. And, uh, um, so they said, sure. So we did the show and we sold out and they got $1,500 guarantee. So things are looking pretty good for me then.

And then I get them a couple of shows and they decide to go with me. And then I try to get them a record deal and I can't get them a record deal. But first we do, well, Warner wanted to sign them, Warner Canada. So it was called WEA at the time. Bob Roper is the A&R guy. I'm sure you must've met him.

Never. Oh, never. Oh, really? He's a good guy. You should talk to him here. We'll make it happen. And Bob wants to sign them. And I knew Bob because he signed Honeymoon Suite. And, uh, so I bring it to him and this is, this is a tragic story. Uh, I bring it to him and this is this is a tragic story uh i bring it to him and he it we so i said well let's do uh let's put out the 12 inch if i'm an adult now because it's not really available and so we do that we do that deal and then i'm negotiating with uh steven stone's my lawyer at the time and i'm negotiating with steven stone and Kulin, who's the president of Warner.

And I said, okay, I want music videos to be 50% recoupable. Everything else in the deal is good, but they wanted 100% recoupable. At the time that was very standard in Canada, but they had changed that in the United States and 50% video was more standard. I don't even know how I knew that. But explain it for the lay people out there, what that means. Well, it means that when the record company advances you any money for your record, your video, promotion, all sort of tour support, all the money that they put in, that they get that money back out of your record sales before you get your royalty. Right. And your royalty comparatively is sort of small because you're getting at the time about 13 points or 13% of, of sales after recoupment. Gotcha. And so, uh, but I thought it was, I, I knew about this for some reason. And I think because I did had spent a

lot of time in Los Angeles and at the record labels, even at Warner. And so I said, no, we want it the same as like a U S deal. We want it 50%. And they said, no, they can't do that. And I said, well, I'm sorry, we can't sign with you. And then we didn't have a record deal one at 50 and they said no they can't do that and i said well i'm sorry we can't sign with you and then we didn't have a record deal that's when we did a record deal and i'm like whoa did i actually just blow it by negotiating too hard but in the meantime we had signed a publishing deal with emi publishing mike mccarty was the was the guy there at the time and he now has a company here called kilometer um and um mike's an amazing guy and he he helped me and stood behind me and he was like okay let's well we'll get another record deal so we went around went to all the labels um i remember we were really close to signing to duke street and uh and their deal

was also not that good of a deal like but it was a deal you know and i'm like i've kind of blown it months have gone by we don't have a record deal and uh we're also shopping it in the u.s too sure and but i'm in the in the meeting with uh with duke street and the phone rings we're like i've got stephen stone there again and uh and you know stephen's no slouch of a lawyer right and i'm like jerking him around constantly at these deals that i'm blowing and uh we we're in there and the phone rings it's mike and i said well tell him i can't take the call like we're about to close the deal we're about to decide on everything right and then it's like mike insists he has to talk to you and they said oh do you want to take it in the other office i said sure so i come back and then the andy hermand uh says he's the head of the label and he says is if that deal if that phone call affects this deal then we should just stop this meeting right now

and i said okay let's stop this meeting what really happened on the phone call was mike says to me what do you mean you're not taking the call this is your johnny rogers phone call and the johnny rogers phone call johnny ro Johnny Rogers being a famous Toronto Alouette who was American and they were trying to kick him off the team and cancel his contract and his manager called him up or his agent or manager called him up in the middle of well they're Argonaut you mean Argonaut okay what did I say you said Alouette Alouette oh sorry that's okay no but I'm following yeah but anyway sorry Toronto Argonaut and uh he um he called it's this great lakes beer that uh thrown me off but anyway famous toronto argonaut right and he um he was they were kicking him off the team but then his agent calls and says oh you know they want you in new york or

something like that and he's like okay good i'm out of the contract then they want me in new york and they insisted that he stay in the contract and they kept him and he really didn't have a deal in the u.s so i so i say yeah let's end it and then steven and i go across the street to um uh that it's a little diner over there on king's king and sherborne it's still there and uh and and he i tell him the story and he's like so there is no other deal and i said no there's no other deal and he's like well why did you why did you do that i was like well you know it's like i thought it was good we may be better negotiation but also maybe this isn't the right deal for us right and then mike and i go down to new york until our feet are bleeding going to record labels

and everybody likes them people are very interested in them yeah and uh there's a guy chrysalis bruce dickinson he he's interested in signing them but he couldn't get it through at chrysalis and then he leaves chrysalis new person starts there kate hyman there's a guy named uh danny keaton who works at emi in new york and he calls me up and says i think that i i think kate is interested in the band now by this, I've got the band touring across Canada. I'm booking all their shows myself. We don't even have an agent. We're playing Winnipeg at a place called the Banana Club.

We're on our way to Vancouver. Because I'm an adult now is being played in pretty high rotation on Much Music. Yeah, it's high rotation on Much Music and we're getting other radio stations. On the rock stations. And by the way, I worked for Honeymoon Suite. So I know everybody at all the rock stations across the country. i'm calling like andy frost who is andy frost f-o-t-m andy frost so he's andy's in winnipeg then right right city right i think i think that might have even been the show that andy and uh ralph james promoted that's ralph has j James has a great story about that show. And, um,

but go do that show. But we're on our way to Vancouver to open for 5440 at the Commodore. Wow. Like that's what the whole tour trips about. Right. I booked all these shows. We're staying at like, you know,

Shirley's sisters, you know, basement and going through Calgary. Anyway, all this good. And the Olympics are on, I guess, or something that. Oh yeah. Calgary at the good. The Olympics are on, I guess, or something like that.

Oh yeah, Calgary at the Olympics. Yeah. So then, um, we, Kate, this woman,

Kate's going to fly into Winnipeg to see the band. Oh, and then we played Lee's Palace on the way out to make a little bit of money for the tour. Right. Jay Boberg from IRS flew up, the president of IRS records, amazing guy too. And so he wants to sign them.

And then we get to, uh, we get to Winnipeg and this, I go meet this woman at the airport. I've never met before. And she gets off the plane and I go, where's your luggage? And she holds up a plastic bag, opens it up and shows me that she has a toothbrush and a pair of panties in this plastic bag. and that's her luggage that's all she needs and she just flew to winnipeg from new york and i was like whoa i think she's our kind of person and uh so anyway she loves them she goes home and then i go to new york she wants to sign them and jay wants to sign them and i've i've gone i think i went to la after vancouver and then i went to new New York and it's all looking pretty good.

And, um, we, you know, we were talking to a number of people and still including Warner in the U S we, they got passed on by a lector who we did want to sign with. And, uh, Howard Thompson decided to pass on them after they, that was a little later, I guess. Anyway, so it's, it's hotter and hotter and hotter. Anyway, we ended up signing with Chris listen with with kate and uh we the big criteria was i just said to each label if you can get todd rungren to produce the record that's who mo wants and if you can get todd rungren then we'll sign with you and jay was like well we only have this much money and todd's this much money i've already been talking

to todd and his manager and um i said yeah i know but you got to come up with this much money and Todd's this much money. And I've already been talking to Todd and his manager. And, um, I said, yeah, I know, but you got to come up with this much money or we can't sign with you because we have to get Todd Rungren to produce the record. And I loved IRS. They're the coolest label and Jay's the coolest president,

but that's not looking so good. Then we're going to sign with Kate. Uh, cause she calls, she calls Eric Gardner and says, yeah, we got the money. And he said,

okay, we'll do it. And then, uh, then when we do the deal, she deal she calls and says well we don't really have the full amount of money it was last and he still did it todd didn't really care about money his manager was just trying to make the best deal so anyway we signed with we signed with kate kind of after that but we went to new york after that and played and there's multiple labels and all that kind of thing but things worked out with kate hyman and chris list and we were very happy about that i love the detail listen i've had you know i've done this what 1241 times or whatever what what you're great at is i love the names

you got the detail and i'm sure there's people like oh just give me the highlights no i love this okay good keep doing this i like i like the detail deep dive i'm just soaking it all in and these names are coming at me right left and center and i'm just soaking it all in and these names are coming at me right left and center and i'm trying to retain them and i love it okay so that's like the very thorough history of the pursuit of happiness getting their their record deal and of course todd rundgren uh produces love junk and love junk is fucking awesome yeah it was such a great out i mean when that album was done, I couldn't believe how great it was. And I, I really,

I mean, we did really well with that album. It took us around the world. We got to play all over Europe with Eurythmics and we played all over America with Duran Duran and the Replacements. But, you know, it wasn't as big as, as,

as I had hoped it would be, but it was still pretty, still did pretty well. Well, I, Toronto Mike, growing up in Toronto, owned Love Junk

and on cassette and absolutely loved it. It was a playthrough, loved all of it. Yeah, well, in Canada, we did extremely well.

It was a multi-platinum record in Canada, right? So, and, and, and all, a lot of help there

from 5440 and their managers, Keith Porteus and Alan Moy. That was a really good, they were, really helped us a lot. So, what is it about the US

that sometimes they latch, like, you know, rush can be big in the States, but I don't know, Kim Mitchell might not be big in the States. Like, like what is it?

Is it timing? Is it, is it, what would you say is the reason that the pursuit of happiness weren't big in the States? Well, they were reasonably big. They weren't huge.

It weren't like rush big, but they could tour and they could do shows. And we had every shot in the book at it. I don't know. It's different in different cases, right? Because what happened with them is they made it to the top. Like we made it to number two on the alternative charts on CMJ. There was number one was an undefeatable band called REM.

Right. And you could not knock REM off the college charts. It was like, it was the REM charts really. Right. But we made it to number two. And I thought that was like, to me that was actually like being number one if you're only behind REM.

And then we toured a lot. We worked hard. We had the team at Chrysalis were amazing. They got us every opportunity. We played like the Gavin Convention, which is like a radio convention where all the radio stations,salis were amazing. They got us every opportunity. We played like the Gavin convention, which is like a radio convention where all the radio station, rock radio stations come. We played all kinds of great opportunities. We played festivals for radio stations in the U S, but then when it came time to go to top 40, we didn't land, right. We didn't, it didn't go all

the way. And we were being seen as a radio opportunity. Right. And, uh, and it didn't go all the way and we were being seen as a radio opportunity. And that was a very key moment in time where they were, and I didn't say this, someone else said this to me when I was trying to describe the pursuit of happiness to an American artist and another artist was with him. And he said, well, they were the first alternative band that rocked. I was like, oh, that's really true, but don't't i can't say it out loud but i can't believe you think it too and so um uh what but uh but later like sometime later like after i guess it was after one-sided story i ended up talking to butch big because i was thinking we could get butch big to produce them yeah and um and

butch was like oh yeah you know when i was in a band like the band that i had before garbage which is the same band without shirley manson but um it we that's all we listened to on the road was the pursuit of happiness i'm like so before you produce nirvana all you listen to is the pursuit of happiness right i like i knew there was a missing link there so so they i think they culturally had a a relevance that's extremely important in america as well and then that you know then what you need to do if you're going to break in america is you need to keep going back there and playing which we did up and then i stopped at some point i stopped managing them and at that time i don't think that they went back there too much more okay i realized looking at the clock i think when we started i said hey do you got an

hour for me we're gonna blow by that hour i hope that's okay that's okay okay and we can't go that deep on everything obviously or this will be like an eight hour episode but i did don't you want to dedicate a whole season to this i mean come on i would do a limited series on jeff rogers okay so i'm cherry picking three other bands to dive into. And then the other stuff we'll, we'll touch on everything else and more, uh, a little higher level here, but here,

let me just start this song. And then we'll get the, uh, Jeff Rogers crash test dummies. And I'll tell you what Richard Flo Hill told me when he was here the other day. So And I'll tell you what Richard Flohill told me when he was here the other day. A kid in the jungle But Clark Kent No, there was a real gent

He would not be caught Sitting around in no jungle scheme Dumb as a honey doing nothing We'll bring down Brad there. I can't do a Brad Roberts. Okay, so tell me how you helped steer the crash test dummies to greatness. What was your role there, Jeff? Well, again, I was the manager.

And I, you know, you mentioned Richard Flohill, but I found them after Richard Flohill because he is the actual discoverer of them. That's what he tells me. Yeah, it's true. The story is holding up. That's the truest thing anybody's ever said. Because there are so many disputed facts in the music industry. That is undisputed.

And so they were brought to me by Graham Henderson, a lawyer. Graham worked with Stephen Stone, and he became my lawyer during the Pursuit of Heaven's Time. I think Stephen was tired of me blowing record deals, and Graham did the final record deal with Chris. So he brought me the Crash Testamies, and I had a little cassette player. There was a demo, and it would just play over and over

in the cassette player. And every time superman song came on i was like wow this song is amazing and so um i flew out to whistler with graham to see them play some little club there and uh they're like oh graham is this like your little brother or something? I have long hair and like skater shorts on. And I'm like, I don't even know how old I was then. I guess I'm like, you know, 20 something, right? So he's like, no, this is Jeff, the guy you've been talking to on the phone. Anyway, so I worked out some deal with them to tentatively manage them for a little bit. Well, they were figuring out what they were doing and I became their manager quickly and then they already had a record deal through the efforts of

richard flohill they ended up uh he brought all the canadian labels out to see them in winnipeg at a conference there and um they um david bendeth ended up signing them to BMG. Uh, and I, uh, then I'm involved. And then I was like, okay, well, I took it down and I played it for this guy, Ken Friedman at, uh, Arista records who he, that like, I knew him through Kate oddly. And, um, and I went to, uh, he was like, oh, well I'll buy lunch and then this'll be my, I'll put crash test dummies on it and this will be good. And I'll, uh, you know, I'll bring it and then this will be my, I'll put crash test dummies on it and this will be good. And I'll, you know, I'll bring it up at the A&R meeting because they could pick it up essentially the way record company deals work

if a Canadian label signs it, their affiliates around the world can pick it up for free basically. Right. As long as they're going to promote it and, you know, want to spend the resources on it. So that took a little bit of time, but they were interested and clive was interested there was another anr person there that was sort of not interested and uh ken said to me

why don't you write clive a letter and tell him why you think the band should be on aristide so i wrote him a pretty good letter about why they should be on aristide and i mailed it to him in the mail and uh and then in one of their meetings, Ken said, Clive has your letter open on his desk and it's been there for two weeks, like sitting on his desk. And this is like one of the most powerful Clive Davis.

Still is, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And so he, anyway, we worked and worked and worked and the team at BMG also worked hard to get them to pick it up, right? And they picked it up, and then I was able to work really well with the team over at Arista in New York.

I'm still friends with all those people, and they worked hard on that record. But we didn't break through on that record, but a magic thing happened. Superman song was getting played on these half a dozen radio stations, KBCO in Boulder. record but they we didn't break through on that record but a magic thing happened superman song was getting played on these a half a dozen radio stations kbco in boulder um cities fm in minneapolis uh trying to think of the other ones one asbury park wfnx in boston and some of these people i had known through the pursuit of happiness right there are people that i could talk to call up on the phone and um um, WHFS in Washington was another one. And I knew these people cause it would go to the radio stations.

We'd meet them with pursuit of happiness and I'd follow up with them. And one of the guys, the guy at XR or, um, uh, yeah, XRT in Chicago played it too. But the guy that was at XRT, Lynn Bramer had moved to Minneapolis and he was running Cities FM. So right when we put out the second record, those stations and some other stations banded together and they issued the first triple A chart six weeks before the second Dummies album came out. And I was like, you've got to be kidding. All the people that I know and I know through my band have a chart. So it came out that that chart,

the first weeks, the only people on the top of the chart were Sting and John Hyatt. And I was like, I kept saying to everybody, we're going to be number one on that chart. And then we were. And then the team there,

they did the thing Chrysalis didn't do for the Pursuit of Happiness. They broke them through to top 40. So we got through all the rock stations first, all the alternative stuff. Everybody, college kids loved them. That whole thing was going on. And then they were able to turn the key. And I mean, they're a very powerful company, Chrysalis, at that time.

And they have very big pop acts. And they also had Patti Smith, right? I mean, that's a really cool label um and the top team they're basically like really fantastic people and they they pushed it through and we got some great tours like elvis costello we toured toured all over america with elvis and uh and had lots of great shows and then started making our own money and doing our own shows. Amazing. Yeah. Like I said,

I had a crash test dummies on fairly recently. I guess this is going back a few weeks and yeah, Brad lives in New York now and we chatted remotely cause he was a long drive for him to come here to the studio. So we did it remotely and the sound of the New York traffic, it was like another person on the mic. was oh yeah yeah well i i stay there with him even to this day i go stay with him when i'm in new york and it is loud well i said to him i said maybe you should close the window brad and he goes they are closed that's the where those windows are where his desk is that's the room i sleep in okay okay wow and that we talked about the uh big

u.s breakthrough which uh brad said uh was rejected by canada he said he uh used the line canada eats its young yeah well you know what happened uh so a couple of things so um they we well we decided on that song as a single in the Canadian company. Uh, like we all just sat, I remember we were sitting around the Western Harvard castle. It might've been during Canadian music week or something. And we, we just all said, okay, I know it has no lyrics in the chorus, but we have to pick the best song. And everyone agreed.

So, um, so we, we went with that song. Then we put it out. And the first review that came in was from my good friend, Larry LeBlanc. And it said, this is just proof that you have your whole life to write your first album. And just a few short months to write your second, you know, there's no Superman song here and Superman's and never charted in canada

wild yeah that's wild later the other singles from that album did chart and uh coffee afternoon's and coffee spoons yeah coffee spoons and afternoons and even swimming your ocean charted they all charted but i will i think it did because they saw the america loves them they must be good is that the canadian i mean one might draw that conclusion. But they, you know, there was sort of this thing, and, you know, look, I still love Larry. It's like he just called it as he saw it at the moment, right? Right.

But what they didn't know is that that magic chart was about to appear in America, and where these are the people that had, this was a band they were already playing. This is a band they were champing and loved, but only in their towns. And those were the towns where we could sell out a 500 seat club.

So it was a real, there was like no problem. I knew I could book an American tour just in those cities. And then they connected the dots. And then the other magic thing that happened was we were playing the bottom line in New York. And, uh, this guy, John Zonars came connected the dots. And then the other magic thing that happened was we were playing the bottom line in New York. And this guy, John Zonars, came to the show, invited by Tom Ennis from Arista.

And he worked at Saturday Night Live and he was essentially a junior booker there. It would end up being his first booking. And he came. Carly Simon was at that show. I think that was the show that Carly Simon got up and sang Superman's song with them. And, but anywayly Simon was at that show. I think that was the show that Carly Simon got up and saying, um, Superman song with them.

And, uh, but anyway, he's at that show and then we leave New York, right? We meet, I didn't even meet him. And then, um,

he, uh, it's down to, I hear from Tom that it's down to them and one other band. I think the other band was diggable planets. And, uh, the host is going to be Martin Lawrence. And I'm thinking, well, it's going to go diggable planets. And, uh, the host is going

to be Martin Lawrence. And I'm thinking, well, it's going to go diggable planets way, not crash test dummies way. But then I'm, I'm at the show in Philadelphia and there's a great station there. Uh, it's, uh, what's the station there? WXRT, no WXRT Chicago. And I can't think of it, but the great Philadelphia college radio station or university radio station there. But, um, and Mike Morrison's the program director of that radio station. I've known him now for a few years through pursuit of happiness and crashes dummies. And Mike and I are enjoying the show. It's sold out. Like we've got, I mean, this is without any of this stuff. We got a thousand people in Philadelphia going crazy for crash test dummies. And I, um, and somebody comes to me and there's, there's a phone call. I mean, we don't have cell phones, right? Like,

or not readily available. There's a phone call for you in the, in the ticket booth. So I go into the ticket booth of the theater living arts and I, um, the, the ticket person's there. There's really no room. I pick up the phone and it's like, Jeff, this is John Zoners from Saturday Night Live. And if you guys are available next Saturday, we'd love to have you on. I'm like, we're canceling everything. Wow.

So then I go and I tell Mike and he's freaking out. And he's like, you got to tell the band. You got to tell the band. So I write it down on a piece of paper and I give it to Mike Vegas, our guitar tech. And Mike hands it to, Mike reads it and looks at me and goes, holy shit. And then he takes it over and gives it to Brad.

And Brad looks over at me like, what? And then he doesn't say anything. I'm like, what? This is when you say something. And then 20 minutes, seems like 20 hours goes by. And then he goes, well, I just got word that we're gonna play this next song on uh on saturday live next week and it's like and the crowd went bananas and then we played saturday night live then we got buzz bin on mtv and then it was like it was non-stop and we're like sound scan had just

come out we're now we're and we're working hard to book those shows using sound scan information and now we're selling 80 000 records a week it's like it was a really crazy time wow okay i'm gonna kick out another jam by another canadian band i love and we're gonna see how are you connected to this band I'm not alone I'm not alone I feel like I'm fading And obscure beneath this I'm not impressionable I'm fading and obscure beneath this night of flesh and bone I'm not alone, I'm not alone

I'm like a one in a million faces, I'm left to your front door And then you come, and then you go Make me feel so bright, make me feel brilliant And so I, it's like I shine, it's like I shine It's like I shine, it's like a show It's like a show It's like a show It's like a show It's like a show

Doughboys. Jeff, how are you connected to the Doughboys? Well, more than their friend or friends of them individually, but the Doughboys were someone who helped us a lot with the pursuit of happiness, particularly, because they were the ones, like, how 50 for 40 invited us to Vancouver,

they invited us to Montreal. And John Kastner is a particularly good friend of mine. And I have business with him, where he has a company called Cobreside, as you probably know, that does distribution. And they distribute the old Handsome Boy catalog for me. business with him where he has a company called Cobreside, as you probably know, that does distribution. And they distribute the old Handsome Boy catalog for me. And John and I worked together

on a movie called Suck. I was going to ask you about Suck. In fact, I'll quickly ask you now since you said the S word there, but Brian Dunn says Dave Foley played a character based on Jeff Rogers. And the character's name was Jeff Rogers. And he character's name was Jeff Rogers.

And he says in the vampire rock and roll movie, Suck. That's true. That's true. Wow. The kid in the hall, Dave Foley, the star of news radio, played you. That's wild. Well, and I said to him once, I have a funny story about that. So I'm in New York.

I manage a Canadian producer who's lived in new york for 20 years he just mixed all of the um de la soul records to for release on streaming and uh scotty hard and i scotty hard and i are going to a show at a theater kind of an alternative magic show and uh i think there's a netflix special event and stuff now but i go to it and i we have scott's in a wheelchair so we have a front we're front row seats uh because that's where our seats were and so i get there early and i'm like oh they haven't set the seat up seats up right i was pissed off and anyway get all sorted out and as i'm there the first person comes in the theater that's coming to the show and it's it's dave foley and he walks over and he's got the seat right beside us, which is the only seat that we would bother. And Dave's holding his ticket and looking and then he's like, sits down and I'm talking

to the theater manager who I'm really irritating at this point. And I look at him and I go, I yell loudly, excuse me, sir. And he turns and looks and I said, and that she's really, she goes red when I do that. And I said, didn't you play me once in a movie? And he said, well, I like to think of it more as an homage to you.

That's wild. I got to see this. Now, of course, it's worth noting as we play the Doughboys, and you mentioned John Kastner, that this movie stars John's wife, right? Yeah, John's wife, Jessica, is the star of the movie. Right, star of Mad Men, can we call itessica is the star of the movie right star of mad men can we call yes the star of one of the stars of mad men maybe not the star but uh and it's it's paray right i never noticed it i say parade but yeah well you would know better than

me here but uh yeah absolutely so suck stars stars it's funny to say that suck stars jessica and i'm going to just shout out some of the cameos in Suck, if people track down Suck. So you got Moby, Alice Cooper, Carol Pope, who's also an FOTM, Henry Rollins, Malcolm McDowell,

Alex Lifeson, Iggy Pop, John Kastner, of course. Wow. Yeah. It was a good cast for sure for the movie. And most of the rock

stars I got, um, I didn't get Alex, John brought Alex, John's good friends with Alex and, uh, Alex is spectacular in the movie as a, as a U S border patrol guard. Um, and, uh, the, but the other, the other rock stars I was able to track down and moby i had been friends with because i worked at v2 in new york as the head of artist development in the early 2000s and i got nominated for a grammy for producing moby's dvd and uh so then i moved back to canada and i was involved in this movie and i called moby and i said hey do you want to be in this movie and we wanted him to play beef bellows the lead singer of the secretaries of steak a heavy metal band from buffalo and of course moby is pretty famous vegan right right so it's in the band which john plays in the band uh in the movie and uh the band uh are pelted

by uh raw steaks as part of the um as part of the uh you know there's what happens at their shows and so moby was amazing in it because at one point he's getting pelted with these they're foam right but they're drenched in red stuff and there's and he grabs one out of the air just catches it and he holds it above his famously bald head and squeezes all the red stuff all over his head and i mean he was in a hardcore band previously right so he was um he was uh he was perfect for the part and and he was fantastic actor okay and this is when you're working for uh richard branson right that's post richard working for richard branson i when i came back to canada but when i worked for richard branson at v2

yeah okay because moby play the dvd play the DVD, I produced that. You produced that. And that's the first, I think that's Moby's first Grammy. Is that? It was a Grammy nomination. He didn't win. But, or I didn't, it was Moby and I were nominated together. So we didn't win. So you've yet to win a Grammy.

Can I tell you what my acceptance speech was going to be? Yes, please. So I had a little Nokia, like those little tiny Nokias. They were new then. Right. And it's 2002, I guess. And so I have the phone and I'm sitting, I have my nieces with me and my sister. And so I've dialed my mother's phone number and David Foster is presenting the award. And before the awards, they pretty much lecture everybody in the pre-show that you've got

five seconds to say thank you, right? And you could get the mic, they pretty much lecture everybody in the pre-show that you've got five seconds to say thank you. And you could get the mic, but for five seconds. And much different than the situation here where I've had the mic for more than five seconds. And so I've got the phone. I've got my mom's number dialed. And if I won, which Mel Brooks won, but if I had won, I was going to hit talk and then walk up with the phone to my head and say hey mom I won the Grammy and then walk off amazing okay so I didn't get to do that but I did just get to do it on your show but is this the first time you've been able to actually tell that story in

public that's the first public telling of that story love it love it so much all right so we are kind of bouncing around but I do have a question related to uh producing movies so this is something you do. You produce movies, Jeff. At times, yes, I produce movies. Because there's a question, a very specific question from the aforementioned Blair Packham, FOTM Blair Packham, future FOTM Hall of Famer, I'm sure.

He says, there's one underway that he said I could score and contribute a song to. He's wondering if it's gone away or if it's still happening. So what are you currently producing that Blair's referring to? Well, we have a few things, and I'm trying to remember which one I told him that I wanted him to score, because there's a couple of different ones,

but none of them have gone away. It just hasn't gotten to that point yet. So he's still on the docket. Maybe I should have him score a new, we're working on a new one that we're just doing interviews for now and Blair would be really good to score this one.

It's, do you want to know about it? Yeah. So it's a Canadian, it's a real Canadian documentary. So it's a documentary about a woman, a Canadian woman who's a boxer named Mandy Bourgeot. Have you ever heard of her? No. So, uh, the Tokyo Olympics, she, um, was planning on fighting the Tokyo Olympics and she went to the international Olympic committee, the IOC. And she said, I want to get pregnant, but I need to know

when the qualifying period will be. And I need to have a period when I could get pregnant. They gave her a period of time and she got pregnant and she had a beautiful baby named Kate K-O Kate Olympia and um okay and so they uh so so she was happy and then the pandemic came and they changed the qualifying period so she said back went back to the IOC and said, well, yeah, but, you know, you said I could get pregnant in this time. And they said, no, I'm sorry. That's, we changed everything. And, you know, you, that's basically like an injury. She said, it's like a what?

Pregnancy? And so she went to the mother of one of the young women that she trained and who was a lawyer and asked her about it. And she said, that's not right. And they ended up, her firm did a pro bono lawsuit against the IOC and she won and she fought in Tokyo. Okay, that's a great story. And yeah, Blair's got to score that sucker.

Yeah, obviously, obviously. He's like, you know, when I think of boxing, I think of Blair. I've been a fool, played it dumb. Should have played it smart. All right. Now we talked about Doughboys. They're a guitarist.

Let's just say this band I'm going to kick out right here and talk about comes out of Doughboys, and we'll explain more in a moment. But I love this band so much. And when I saw them at, where was I again? Sneaky d's pretty recently like earlier this year maybe i got shouted out during empty cells so here we go We'll be right back. Weak beers, cheap beers It's coming home to box for readers Oh no, it's time now

Well, fair days came now We must keep going So long You're so wrong You can't help me To be So long Be your own For all this I've been wondering Time

And time You're always Being Unknown Yeah Oh, man. I purposely chose Misogyny because it'll let us talk about Bruce LaBruce and Hustler.

It's all going to come together here. This is going to be a glorious segment. I saved the best for last here. But, of course, Scott McAuliffe was the guitarist for Doughboys. He goes off and forms Rusty, F-O-T-M, Rusty, because they've all been down here. How the hell are you related to Rusty?

Talk to me. I want to hear the whole story, Jeff. Well, Rusty, of course, as I'm listening to that, remembering one of the greatest rock bands of all time. You and I agree on this fact. Okay. Well they, so before Rusty, there was a band called One Free Fall. And so that was Ken and Jim from the band and, uh, with, with, with other great musicians too. And, uh, so that we, I worked with them, Mike McCarty, the aforementioned Mike McCarty introduced me to them. he said he's this is

how I meet them so Mike says oh there's this band I want you to manage you should manage them they're great I saw them play they're called One Free Fall and I said One Free Fall there's no way I'm managing them and he said why and I said they came to see the Pursuit of Happiness and they spit on the girls in the band for the whole show. And he said, what? That's insane. And he called them up and he said, no, I talked to Jim and Ken and they said that's how they were saying that they loved them. And so I was like, okay, fine, I'll go see them. So I went to see them at the Silver Dollar.

And One Free Fall were also one of the great rock bands of all time they had a guitar player named sandy graham who's like one of the greatest guitar players of all time who who both well all of them blew my mind but sandy like jumped out on the tables and was like knocked over all the tables in the silver dollar and was spinning around in circles only held by his guitar cable to to to gravity and uh anyway so i had them we worked on that we were working hard we couldn't get arrested really other than emi and uh so they they kind of broke up and uh scotty moved to toronto and they started a band with scotty and uh and they did some demos. And I paid for them to do some demos. And the demos were great.

So we put it out as an EP. And I had noticed at that time. The Wake Me EP. The Wake Me EP. Yeah, of course. And Fluke. It was called Fluke. Did you just say it's called Fluke?

Oh, my goodness. Okay. I think I still spin Fluke on the weekly. But go on. But so we put it out. We had that amazing cover that Kathy Prosser designed, Leanne Shapton drew, made the drawing. And Leanne Shapton, great Canadian illustrator,

who went on to do a deal with Brad Pitt for a movie for one of her books. Wow. But anyway, we put this thing together. And EMI is still on our team. with Brad Pitt for a movie for one of her books. Wow. Um, but, um, so, but anyway, we put this thing together and EMI is still on our team. They're helping us. And I'm like, let's just put this thing up.

So we put it out. I think I had a, I forget who had distribution. Oh, I had a distribution deal with, with BMG and, uh, Nadine Jelena worked there who was an amazing,

amazing human being and, very responsible for a lot of stuff you probably love in Canadian music. And so, but I had also noticed that when we put out One Free Fall, it was on EMI because the great Dean Cameron and Tim Tremblay signed them there. But we didn't get on any charts, nothing happened. But I was like, why can't we get on this chart at Sam the Record Man? And it's like, oh, that's just for consignment records so handsome boy the label was born and ken was working in the office with me and so he basically was going to run the label and i was the manager and we did this thing and we made the records up we put them out but i said to bmg we're not going to put this

out with you right away we're going to first put out independently and we took them down to sam the record man because the band was starting to get popular and they um it was number one like right away and it stayed number one as long as it was there and then we converted it when we turned it into an album we put it on bmg love it love it okay and i mean this again we're gonna have to talk about bruce labruce yes oh yeah well misogyny well we could well the thing is so bruce yeah i went to my friend Mark Hessling was like, oh, we're walking down the street and we run into Bruce LaBruce,

who I didn't really know, but I knew him as like the snarky waiter from La Hacienda. So he's like, oh, my movie's playing at Toronto Festival of Festivals now called TIFF. And he said, do you guys want a couple of tickets? And we said, yeah. So we went to his movie. And he comes out at the beginning of the movie dressed in like a 1940s tuxedo and he says

this movie was a labor of hate and i was like i already loved the movie i don't even need to see it and then this movie plays yeah which was like a little like more than i would bargain for when we came to it so it's like a basically an art film but it's but it's a gay porno as well and it's like a but it's a but it's an art film obviously accredited now as an art film and uh and then so we so so we this is super eight and a half and um we so we see that we go to the party after we're just as at a booze can. I mean, that's how long ago in Toronto it was because bars closed at one. So they had to,

you know, rent a late night illegal spaces that parties. And, um, I talked to him. I'm like, you're the greatest filmmaker in the world. Cause like I'm watching this film and I'm laughing and crying and having all

the, like Scott Thompson's in that movie and, uh, all kinds of other interesting people. And I said, I want to produce, I never produced a movie or anything. And I said, I want to produce your next movie. And so I got involved in Hustler White that way and became a producer on that film. So, okay, to connect the dots here. So you're an executive producer on Hustler White. And that's when we see the misogyny video, that's got Hustler White clips in there.

Yeah. So what happened was I, we were on tour. They were opening, we had Rusty opening for Collective Soul. We had done a deal with, for Handsome Boy to do a deal with, for Rusty with Atlantic Records, with Val Azzoli, who used to work with Ray Daniels that I mentioned earlier and val's now the chairman of or the president of atlantic records at that time and uh so we do this deal pretty good deal and we have a lot of great people involved in it and uh we we're getting radio airplay like they're on commercial alternative rock radio

and going up the charts and Val gets them on the collective soul tour. And we go to do that tour and then we're in LA. So we're all in LA. And, um, and you know, by the way, coinciding with all this happening is Crashless Dummies are doing extremely well, which is what allowed handsome boy to exist. And, uh, so I'm staying at the Chateau Marmont and like Bruce is coming and hanging out there with me. Rusty's coming to hang out there with me and we go to shoot the video, but there's, he's shooting the movie, right? He's shooting Hustler White. So we go shoot on the set of Hustler White on a day off. I get Atlantic to pay for a music video. Cause I say, well,

we could do a music video for like $15,000. They said, sure. And for misogyny. And we, um, we give that to the movie for the budget. So inadvertently Atlantic pays for this heralded art film is also gay pornography. And, um, so we do this beautiful and we make the video, Tony words in it, all that sort of stuff.

Cause Tony words there that day. And then they, they use clips from the movie and, and we put it out and we, we did, I and we we did i thought we did pretty well with it so i told you earlier i'm actually legit a big fan of fluke like i put fluke right up there it's right alongside i don't know pearl jam verses okay it's right there in my i i love fluke i don't understand and maybe you'll correct me now like what is it about the

sound of fluke from like Groovy Dead in California and that misogyny we played there in Wake Me and all that, that doesn't make them as bigger than fucking Collective Soul? Shouldn't they be bigger than Collective Soul? Well, I thought, you know, so at that time, and also they had me as their manager and Crashless Dummies were successful and I had everybody on my side.

Um, I don't know, to be honest, why they weren't successful. Ken spitting on people. Yeah. You know, they may have been doing things that were equivalent to spit.

I've already dropped names of FOTMs who had had like, you know, Ken was, I don't think he was a warm, cuddly, beloved, uh, figure.

Let's put it that way. Oh my, I, as I said to this person who i won't name but he's like you were like interacting with ken the rock star i interact with ken the the bricklayer like it's a different ken yeah yeah no yeah well i loved ken uh at that time still love ken and uh we've been talking lately because uh we've been talking to a few different people about trying to put out a vinyl of of that first album and um so that'll probably come together and uh so we yeah like i mean ken and i were best friends then too right so i don't really know like it's like there's little things can happen that can upset the apple cart and it's really hard to pinpoint any of them

i don't there was a moment in time of something that happened that that kind of made it difficult i think that we had we were dealing with a lot at the time like we were dealing with a world of where drugs exist and a world where um people end up not acting in their own best interest all the time. And that, that was happening. Um, that caused the band at a pinnacle moment to basically break up. Uh, Jim left the band and, uh, and I was so like taken down by that. Like at the time I was 1999, I managed also Ashley McKissick,

who's also a little bit difficult to manage, but a wonderful, amazing person, incredible musician. And I was like, I was like, I don't know, like I don't know what I'm even doing. This is, and then that's when I called up. I went to New York and I met with a couple of people and I said, I don't know, I think I'm going to need to get a job.

Like Crashless Dummies aren't going to go on the road anymore. There's drugs involved in the other bands and it's getting in the way of things. And one person said, oh, this is the worst time in the world to look for a job. And the next person I said that to said, do you want to work here and be head of artist development? Wow. Wow. Okay. So where was that? That was at V2. Yeah. So that's the Richard Branson company. Yeah, that was the Richard Branson Company. The president at the time was also named Richard, and I had worked with Richard at Arista because he worked with Crash Test Allies. As I connect all these dots, and this has been amazing here,

it's really like you making contacts that come back because you dropped the name Blue Peter earlier in the convo, right? Yes. And FOTM, because he's in FOTM as well, Chris Wardman. Yeah. So from Blue Peter, he produces Fluke. He produces Fluke. I was his manager at that time too.

Yeah. Wow. Everything is connected here. I'm going to put it on the whiteboard and connect it here. Okay. So, yeah, we agree Fluke is awesome. We agree. Uh,

Rusty is, is a, is a kick-ass rock band. We agree. Chris Wardman is a great producer. Chris Wardman's a great, he, he did a chalk circles,

um, uh, April fool too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Amazing.

I want to just stop down for a minute here before we, we mop up some of these. There's something that, like I said, we could do seven hours here. This is unbelievable, but I do want to shout out the moment lab when i was talking to rick the temp yesterday i'm still calling him rick the temp i know he's everyone i think everyone calls him rick he says everyone that's he's okay with it so i'm going to keep going so rick the

temp was here rick the temp much like stew stone he works with the the moment lab not steve stone your lawyer this is is Stu Stone, who's a director and actor extraordinaire. But the Moment Lab specialize in public relations, and they have a team of experienced professionals who know how to craft stories that resonate with your audience and generate positive media coverage. Whether you're launching a new product, building your reputation, or managing a crisis, the Moment Lab has you covered. So let me introduce you to my friends, Matt and Jared at The Moment Lab. You heard Rick the Temp talking about them yesterday. They're great guys.

They have a whole team behind them. They can help you achieve your public relations goals. So welcome to the family. The Moment Lab. Here, mop up here for Jeff Rogers. You're going to have to do quick hits on this you were a director and i don't remember this uh mo berg song and dance man yeah that's amazing that you know that well i found it in some bio somewhere and it caught my attention

what the heck was mo berg song and dance man basically mo was doing some solo shows at that time and i wasn't managing him anymore but i went to see him and I was like, we should make a movie of your solo show. It's so good. So I called up, I called up Don Allen who owned Revolver and he lent me some gear. And I called up Michael Harrely to own BlackRock and these are their mortal rock video enemies, you know, and he lent me some gear. And, uh, we, so I had three three cameras. And one of the guys from Black Walk brought down a switcher. And he did live switching. And he was at the Rivoli. And we filmed it.

And then we debuted it. The only place it really played was the North by Northeast Film Festival. And we packed out a little room or a pretty sizable room at Black Walk over at 99 Sudbury, a building that no longer exists there, and played that movie. And I thought it was great because Mo was funny. And talented and amazing. And also, if I may,

because I just had my second chat with him very recently, Mo was a sweetheart. Yes, Mo's an absolute sweetheart and an unbelievable talent too. But he's a wild man on stage in a lot of ways, compared to what a sweet guy he is and and he's able to come up with really humorous yeah hard edge things uh on stage that are not in that are incongruous to his uh his personality have you seen the trans canada

highwaymen i haven't seen them live i've never seen them. I've seen some film of them and some stuff like that, but I've never seen them live. Well, Stephen Page slipped. I'm not sure it was ready for public consumption, but he did slip it in a recorded conversation, so I feel it's fair game that there's actual, they usually just play songs that they wrote for their other bands or whatever,

but I think they're making new music together. Oh, wow. Yeah, I think that's the. That's the, that's Canada's Asia. Right, yeah, super group, absolutely. Yeah, it's the Traveling Wilburys. Okay, yeah, well, I like, I think they'll like Canada's Asia. Yeah, they will like that better, but okay.

So one last note on these movies, and then one last artist I'm going to ask you about, and then you get a moment where if there's anything'm going to ask you about and then you get a moment where if there's anything I didn't ask you about but you wanted to share, this is the time. So the movie I want to ask you about is, because I didn't know this existed either, but there was a Crash Test Dummies movie.

A Symptomology of a Rock Band, the case of Crash Test Dummies. I missed out on the Moe Berg movie. I missed out on the Crash Test Dummies, but you produced this too? That one's available on Video Set. I don't know if it's available anywhere else. Yeah, it's on VHS.

And it was directed by Chris Lefkoe. Is that related to Elliot Lefkoe? No relation to Elliot Lefkoe, but was the girlfriend of Ken McNeil. So that's how I met her. And she was a filmmaker. She went to the Canadian Film Center.

And we I think there was something I wanted to do do I think I want to make a VHS of their of their videos or something to put out you know with Arista and they gave me a little budget and I said okay and then we made this movie and it's a and I'm in it um and uh it's I think it's pretty funny it's a little bit weird and it's definitely worth seeing and I don't even have a copy of it. So actually I should try to do whatever I can to get a copy of it. And if I do, I'll give you a copy.

Have a sip there. And the last name here, I want you to be strong voiced for this last name, Randy Bachman. Yes, Randy Bachman. Just a small little name, just an indie artist nobody's heard of. But what the hell did you do with Randy Bachman? Well, Randy Bachman. Just a small little name, you know, just an indie artist nobody's heard of. But what the hell did you do with Randy Bachman?

Well, I managed him. And he was, that was like a true gift to be able to even know Randy. But, because he is literally, you know, from one of the greatest rock bands of all time too. And Randy was going to make a solo record called Bachman. Chris Wardman was going to produce it, produced it. And they, at one point, I'm in LA with Randy

and we're record shopping in Tower Records. And I'm looking, we're just going through the bins of vinyl. And I said, oh, look, the new Neil Young album's here. I got to get it. And I said, I really love this album. It's called Arc Weld. There's two albums live and then one album of just feedback. And Randy looks at me and goes, and you like that idea?

I said, like it. I think this is the greatest thing ever released. And so- And yada, yada, yada. Portage, Maine main 15 below. Yeah, exactly. That's what happens next.

And so he, he's like, he's like, Hey, you know, I'm going to call Neil up and see if he wants to be on the record. And then we got to, I got to go to,

I got to go to Neil's house to make the music video. Wow. And that was, is that like a ranch more than a house? It's a ranch. It's a ranch. It's the, yeah.

Cause he's been hanging out in the Kawarthas like lately. Oh, he yeah there's been a lot of neil young spotting and oh back in his old stomping yes because he's from omimi right exactly exactly but yeah but this is the ranch broken arrow ranch down in half moon bay and uh i went so margo timmons is on that track as well so at one point when we first encounter Neil there, Margo and I are having our picture taken by the Broken Arrow Ranch water truck because we think that's cool. Yeah. And, and,

and an old Cadillac pulls up and, and the guy taking our picture, LA Johnson, who was producing the job goes, goes, Hey Neil. And he goes over and talks to him and I'm like, Oh my God.

And Margo and I hide because we're embarrassed. We're like, let's get a picture in front of his truck. But anyway, we had a great time there. There were some amazing things that happened out of that. And I felt really lucky to be involved in that whole thing. And again, that was like, it was able to be Chris Wardman and me working together on that. And he's the manager, him as the producer.

And Randy is the Randy's. I talked to Randy not too long ago, like maybe even just, well, he's touring with his son now. Yeah. Him and Tal. And Tal's extreme talent too.

I mean, Tal, he's got a big us hit under his belt. He has a big us hit under his belt. He never really followed it up with another album. Uh, you know, like he,

he put that out and then, then that was it. Yeah. There was some like, uh, you know like he he put that out and then then that was it yeah there was some like uh you know a lot of times for musicians and this is one reason why some artists don't make it that are great is because there's a disruption at the top of the company they work at people leave and all that sort of thing and i think that kind of thing happened to tell right after his hit and uh it disrupted his his flow all right so before we lose your voice i can actually hear it.

I think it's the beer. It's the beer. But we are done here. But this is the moment. Is there anything that I didn't ask you about, like maybe on your drive here in your cool little sports car I saw pulling into the driveway? Anything you want to share that I haven't prompted for you? Yeah.

So what I do now. Yeah, please. Of course. See, I'm only living in the past yeah so i i still i still like i told you about the mandy bougeaud movie that i'm working on yeah and then we also i man i do manage some artists so i manage a canadian artist who just recently had to change her name she's called vicky minor but she was called velour and she's great i think you'll like her she's an an incredibly talented songwriter from Saskatoon who just moved here. Okay. And I also manage Scotty Hart, who I mentioned,

who he produced Medesky Martin Woods and Invisible Elm. He's a Canadian guy. And he just mixed the Dillasol records that just came out. Wow. And I manage an artist in Holland called Kovacs, who is a spectacular artist. And you would definitely check her out. She's good. Any lowest of the low stories?

I got a few lowest of the low stories. I mean, see, I managed them, but that was like later in my career. I got the great opportunity to work with them. And, you know, great guys and great to work with. And oh, I mean, I'm sure you've seen them live a number of times. Amazing. I got COVID at a lowest at the low gig. Oh yeah, really? Whoa. That's that, that's the kind of place where you would get COVID. But yeah, they're at Lee's Palace, I would think. Oh yeah. They're, they're totally, I mean, they're a great band and I loved working with them and it was a great opportunity for me to get to work with them, but it was a short period of time too. It was just one year. Lawrence and Ron played a TMLX event. They played, I think it was TMLX 3 at Great Lakes Brewery.

And that just is a good excuse for me to tell everybody listening, including you, Jeff, that TMLX 12 is May 11th at 6 p.m. If you want to join us for just a gathering of the FOTMs, not the Juggalos, that's going to be a different gathering. This is the FOTMs. Not the Juggalos. That's going to be a different gathering. This is the FOTMs. May 11, 6 p.m. in a park in southwest Toronto, very close to Mississauga. Email me, mike at torontomike.com.

I'll send you a little map or Google TMLX 12, and you should find the map via Google. But come on out. Say hi. I'm going to bring some uh cold beverages for everybody so tmlx 12 may 11th at 6 p.m jeff rogers i love this man that detail was incredible you were an easy conversation sometimes i feel like a dentist and i'm pulling teeth but you were just glorious man thank you that was great to be here. I mean, I didn't expect to go home with a speaker,

a measuring tape, beer, and lasagna. No, you lucked out. You scored the jackpot there. And that brings us to the end of our 1,241st show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. What's the best way to follow what you're up to, Jeff? Is there a social media account or somewhere you want to direct us?

No, I really don't do that in that manner. I usually let the artists promote themselves and go to all their things. There's at Vicky Minor. There's at Kovacs Official. Those are the people to follow. Our friends at Great Lakes

Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Don't leave without your lasagna. It's in my freezer. Maneris is at Maneris. Season 4. Yes, we are open. Available now. Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada.

The Moment Lab are at The Moment Lab. And Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. See you all next week. I'm just going to go in the calendar in real time and find out who the heck is our next guest. Oh, yeah, this is going to be good. It's Frank Corrado.

He's a former Maple Leaf, and now he's on TSN as a hockey analyst. Frank visits on Monday. See you then. How about you? I am picking up trash and then putting down rogues. And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes. And I'll play this guitar

just the best that I can. Maybe I'm not. Wants me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and gray Well I've kissed you in France And I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name

And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true because Everything is coming up rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy, yeah.

Everything is rosy and Everything is rosy and gray