Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jeff Woods: Toronto Mike'd #1079

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

In this 1079th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike reconnects with Jeff Woods as they talk about John Derringer at Q107, Jeff's golden voice, and his sexy new podcast. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Duer Pants and Shorts.

Welcome to episode 1079 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Dewar. The world's most comfortable pants and shorts. Save 15% with the promo code TRONOMIKE. Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana, the lowest prices on cannabis guaranteed. Over 100 stores across the country. Learn more at canacabana.com. Joining me, making his return to Toronto Mic'd, is Jeff Woods.

Welcome back, Jeff. It was very big, bold. It's good to be here. Thank you. We finally get to do this again. Well, we can thank Mr. Rogers. We can thank Rogers for the delay. We were supposed to do this Friday and there was a mass outage of Rogers customers. And I guess, Jeff, is it safe to say you have Rogers for internet at home? I do. And in a very short explanation,

it was 2005 at my home studio in Toronto when I had Bell and it crapped out. And I called them and said, I have a little business going here. And they're like, what do you mean? I said, I need your tech support. And they said, we'll be there in a week. I said, that's unacceptable.

And you said, fuck you, I'm going to the other guys. And Rogers has been great ever since, until this past weekend. Until Friday. Okay, so, of course, I'm an understanding man, Jeff, so I'm like, yeah, Jeff, let's do it in 24 hours. And then 24 hours later, you still couldn't connect to your your wi-fi i had nothing

saturday morning and i guess it was sunday morning really that everything was sort of fine again here we are i guess so and here we are so it is sunday night i'm in a sunday night kind of mood uh speaking of moods i promised the fotms there will be sexy talk but first jeff we're gonna do a little catching up if that's cool with you. That's cool with me. It's your show, bear. Did you ever see talk radio? It's your show, bear.

Totally. Eric Bogazian. What's his name? Bogazian? I can't remember how you say it. Bogazian. Bogazian. There you go.

Bogazian. It was great. It felt like Stern before we knew Stern. Certainly before I knew Stern. Oh, absolutely. I love that movie, too. I love that movie too. I love all kind of like radio and TV shows that had to do with radio. Like I just thought they were so cool.

They did too. I liked the ones that were more serious like that though. The drama of it. It seemed believable having done it for a couple of weeks. And you saw that flick once and then you're like, that's what I want to do. You know, I was already doing it then. It was, I guess, the middle of the 80s. You know what?

87, 80, I don't know. It was mid 80s. And remind me, I know, so I should tell here, let me do this off the top then. There are other episodes featuring Jeff Woods on Toronto Mic'd. If you go to episode 177,

that was the initial deep dive and that was recorded in June, 2016. I'll read the description I wrote at the time. Mike chats with former Q107 broadcaster Jeff Woods about his life in radio, the legends of classic rock, why Q107 fired him, and his new book, Radio Records and Rockstars. So, Jeff, fond memories of that first appearance in 2016? Truly, and, you know, thereafter, truly, we had fun.

It was at your place. It was in your studio. And I wasn't afraid, and I had no reason to be. And it went well. And it's turned into, what, two, three, four episodes later. But at that time, while I was a former employee, Q107 called me and said, hey, you've got a new radio show. I said, yeah, I've just changed the name

of the one that I was already doing for you. And they said, can we have it? I said, so you've got rid of me and now you want... So anyway, they took it on for a few more years and then they got rid of it again because, you know, different bosses, different priorities. Well, they got you back.

That's a cheaper rate for them because they don't have to worry about you being on the payroll and they don't have to give you a dental. But they paid me quite well when I did you back. That's a cheaper rate for them because they don't have to worry about you being on the payroll and they don't have to give you a dental. But they paid me quite well when I did come back. So that was fun while it lasted. So they made a smart move and then they fucked it up by getting rid of you again.

Well, you know, new bosses always need to pee on the furniture, as it were, or in the corner. Leave their mark, yeah. Leave their mark, right. That sucks. Now, I will say that, so that's where you go for like the deep dive the 101 of jeff uh basically jeff woods 101 up to radio records and rock stars and then august 2018 though you came back and what did we talk about we chatted about your uh your podcast we're going to talk about a different podcast today, later today. Your sexuality. So

this is when you first disclosed to me and please, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You tell me how you would describe your sexuality, Jeff. Oh, I think I said that I was bi. I probably came out to all my friends when I was 33.

And that's a long time ago. But no, I didn't come out in terms of a media person live on there. Cause there was really no reason to, but I think it's, it behooves, I rarely use that word cause it's kind of goofy. It's hard to spell all of us to, uh, to be a bit of a champion for things that, um, help others feel less marginalized and more accepted. So that's why I did it. I love it, but I got to ask you straight up, like, that help others feel less marginalized and more accepted. So that's why I did it. I love it, but I got to ask you straight up.

Do you think the Q107 listenership, as Scruff Connors would call them, would the listenership be A-OK with you identifying yourself as bisexual? Well, I think that it's one of those things where a lot of people are, a lot of people aren't. It's always that way, right? And I think when you're working for a corporation, doing anything to hinder their ability to create revenue around audience is probably not that fair, although it's more in vogue, as it were, now, to be that person who is genuine and authentic and does speak for the person that needs that support. So I think they would be all for it now. Now, mind you, the rock audience, to your point, is, and I don't want to stereotype,

but hell, here we are. You know, if you work for a pop station, like Jack's on air. I think that's how she, I think that's her handle on Instagram. Of working for a pop station, it was more of an obvious, right? This is a more accepting younger audience, more contemporary, arguably. But let's face it, we know tons of people that like the Rolling Stones and don't have any problem with people's consensual sexual choices. So that's a long way of saying some would like it,

some wouldn't like it, but I don't work for them anymore. So it's okay to do whatever I want now. No, you can do what you want. I only wonder, because later in this program, we're going to talk about a bit of the bro culture there at Chorus, particularly Q107, and that bro culture. And I'm not making judgments either either because i love a lot of that music we'll talk about a concert i saw the other night but i wondered if that might be a trickier

audience for your public that declaration than maybe like you said the pop art audience on kiss or something like that it could be trickier um and and it certainly was a concern of mine but i didn't really have a lot of you know something called momentum i didn't have a concern of mine. But I didn't really have a lot of, you know, something called momentum. I didn't have a lot of momentum behind my need to disclose. Right. Because no one's disclosing everything about their sexuality. Right. Again, it goes back to that marginalized group of people that I think that it, I won't say behooves for a third time.

that I think that it, I won't say behooves for a third time, it's a responsible move on the part of somebody who they might not expect to come forth and be honest to do so. Love it. By the way, Jeff, with that voice of yours, you can say behooves as many times as you want, okay? I'll give you a phone book to read if you like. I've reached my behooves quotient for today. I'm hoping for one more.

Like I'm going to keep my fingers crossed over here. All right. All right. There's, okay, so many like notes I'm trying to find here. And then we're just going to talk from the heart. But we're, okay, let's start with this. Andrew Ward is a listener of the program who's a big fan of yours and he had a couple of questions one here is thank you thank you one is I'm trying to find it but I've actually memorized it so I

don't need to find it but oh actually yeah okay he's one of many people with similar questions so Andrew wrote in can you ask Jeff what his warm-up routine is before he speaks on the air. Does he gargle? A shot of whiskey? Cigarettes? Do you have some kind of a process before you record your voice? I don't do any voice work recording commercial or narration or radio or podcast until a couple of things happen. One, I stand up and get out of bed.

Two, I have to have a triple espresso in the morning every morning or i'm not just i'm not i have no equilibrium you can't talk until you have that triple espresso and then ideally at least 30 to 60 minutes of hanging around the house doing stuff just so that i'm alive again which is why at seven o'clock in the evening i can do this but 7 a.m not so much not so much you get imagine doing a morning show and getting up at 4 30 that was never for me in other words no there's no monetary oh actually that's a good question is there a price that would have got you out of bed to host a morning show? No. Oh. No, there really wasn't.

Strange answer for a radio professional. Please continue. I did Saturday and Sunday morning, 6 to noon, for a year when I got back at Q in 97. Right. But that was novel. That was fun, and it was only two days a week, and I knew there was a shelf life to that. I knew I would get back to full time.

So you could do it for two days a week, but imagine Monday to Friday for 40 years. Nah nah not for you no price no price it's good to hear that you have uh you know there's some things can't be bought in this world i like it mal furious i met mal furious at a tmlx once uh mal furious said uh he wants to know what's the best whiskey to get that voice? It was really a variety of alcohol and smokables over the years, I think, that contributed to the way it got. I don't really have a favorite booze anymore. I drink less now. You drink a lot less. Because it makes me tired. And you know, everyone knows hangovers get exponentially more difficult as you get a lot less. It's because it makes me tired. And you know, everyone knows hangovers get exponentially more difficult as you get a bit older.

Where it used to take you a day, and now it takes you a weekend or a week to recover. You've got to pace yourself. You're not a young, you're not a spring chicken anymore, Jeff. I feel springish and chickenish, but no, I'm not young. Maybe I'm speaking for myself. Okay, well, hearing you tell me you got that voice from the drinking and the smoking is actually the best endorsement I've heard in quite some time for drinking and smoking. So I'm just going to take this opportunity to say thank you, Great Lakes Brewery, for sending over fresh craft beer that I will drink because Jeff is...

Jeff, are you in Thornbury? I am clearly in Thornbury. Home of the Thornbury Cidery. Okay. I think they need to send me a check now after that. I've been at my ex-wife's grandparents used to live in, well, they died. That's why they don't live there anymore.

But they lived in Thornbury. So I took many a trip to Thornbury and it's lovely. My favorite town in the world. I've seen a few. This is my favorite. I will die here is my guess unless I meet a. My favorite town in the world. I've seen a few. This is my favorite. I will die here is my guess, unless I meet a sugar mama who lives in Costa Rica. And you're working, or a sugar dada, maybe, too.

You know, a sugar mama and dada? A sugar couple. You're working on it. I love it. Okay. So I'm going to crack open a Sunnyside IPA from Great Lakes. Nice. Happy Sunday evening to you, Mr. Woods.

And because we were smoking, if you got them, I want to shout out Canna Cabana because they won't be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories. And this will actually nicely segue into my little story I'm going to share. And then I promise the listeners that it'll be more Jeff Woods' voice

and less my shitty voice here. Okay, so I want to tell you about my Friday night. I saw Roger Waters at Scotiabank Arena. This was the night where The Weeknd was playing the Dome and they canceled it because of the Rogers outage. Setting it up. Okay, I was going to take a sip and I'm like, no, I'm coming back. Okay.

Roger Waters was excellent. So I thoroughly enjoyed the show. I actually bumped into a couple of people who worked for Chorus owned stations now, but I bumped into Ivor Hamilton, who was long gone before Chorus bought the station, of course. And then Alan Cross I saw outside the going to see Roger Waters. So those are a couple people I bumped into. But here's my little thing. So my plus one went to Moose Grumpy, who gave my daughter and I Blue Jay tickets earlier in the year. So I

like to return favors. And she, in return, gave me some edibles that she got from Canna Cabana. So I could take some edibles, enjoy Pink Floyd, essentially Pink Floydyd even though not really but i don't know in the moment because we were in a big lineup and it was a crazy night i i i zipped it into my like i have like a belt i wear because i put my wallet in there and my keys

and my phone and everything's in there and i bike with it and if i have it i have it i zipped it in and then i forgot about it and i'm going through the metal detector so i take off my belt i put on the table because of course course, that'll go off. There's keys in there and everything. And then I didn't even notice. I go through the metal thing. I don't have a gun. I'm okay.

And there's a lady going through every single pocket in this thing. And I'm like, oh, okay. I never even remembered I had edibles in there. And I wasn't worried about it anyways. But she finds the edible. She calls her boss over. And her boss confiscates the edibles. What is that about? I don't worried about it anyways. But she finds the edibles. She calls her boss over and her boss confiscates the edibles. What is that about?

I don't get that. They're not illegal. I said to him, I said, that's perfectly legal. And you know what his reply was? What? So is beer and you can't bring beer in here.

I wonder if that's a policy or if he's just full of shit. I think it's probably the latter. So I, my first, and I didn't say this because i already lost the battle here okay so you know i lost my edibles and i what am i gonna do but i i was thinking yeah you don't let fucking be no one can bring beer in there because you're

trying to sell them shitty beer for 18 bucks a glass like so don't bring in your fucking beer but as far as i know scotia bankank Arena, they're not, you know, selling, they're not selling edibles. And I would have asked for, you know, I don't know if you know me, but I would have definitely asked for his boss.

And I wouldn't have taken. I needed you with me, but you know, I'm, you know, I didn't want to, you know, be,

I didn't know if I had time for that. And I didn't, I know, I know, I got to channel my inner Jeff Woods next time. But you want to know, like you still need to know whether that was policy or show it to me in some writing thing.

Cause you know, don't compare me bringing in my edibles to sneaking in cans of good beer, like gray lakes. Cause I know they're going to serve some shitty, you know, I don't know, Budweiser watered down Budweiser for 18, 22 bucks a glass.

Anyway, that's my story. I just wondered if you had ever heard of edibles being confiscated, going to concerts. I just wondered if you had ever heard of edibles being confiscated going to concerts. I never have heard of that, and I think it sounds a bit unlikely, but, you know. People want autonomy, and they take it, whether they deserve it or not. And speaking of Roger Waters, Andrew Ward again, he said, Last night, a lot of fans saw Roger Waters.

Can you believe he's 78 years old? That's an open question, I think. But the question for you, Jeff, he goes, can you ask Jeff Woods who he still never misses when he has an opportunity, especially when it may be the last time? So are there any musicians out there that you're like, I better see this person while this person's breathing oxygen?

In terms of going to see them live, I'm funny that way because, you know, I've seen Mark Knopfler a couple times, but I'd love to see him again. Right. I don't need to see Roger Waters again. If Dave Gilmour played another concert, I'd probably go see it.

I've spoken to both men, David multiple times and Nick and I spoke to Roger once and I loved the music of Pink Floyd proper until Roger left. I loved it all and I loved it after he left.

Do I really need to go see a show? What I do need to do is listen to those records over and over. To me, I got a new pair of speakers a few months ago, and I tested The Dark Side of the Moon. It was a great reference because we know it so well. Right. And it sounds so good.

Do I need to go see Roger doing his thing again? No. Who would I need to go and see? Dylan? No. Saw him when he was great. Right. He's still great in some regards, but it's so unpredictable.

If Petty were alive, I'd go see him every chance I could get. If Bowie were alive, I would go see him every time. I guess it really depends. It's pretty specific, isn't it? Well, I was just wondering if there was an artist on your hit list there. Well, Iggy. Iggy Pop. I'll always see Iggy every chance I get.

But it's not always convenient. There's so much going on, isn't there? You could go see three great bands in one night in the city of Toronto. Good point. I was on my bike ride to the Scotiabank Arena where I wanted to stop at the Dome just to check out the scene because a lot of unhappy people. They announced that cancellation for the weekend like 15 minutes before showtime. So most of these young people,

particularly those coming in from like the 905, et cetera, had already, you know, arrived from their public transit and their different ways of getting into the core. I found that to be a big surprise for thousands of unhappy weekend fans. But anyway, but I biked by the Budweiser stage and who's the, I should know his name, Keith Urban was in town. And yeah, I should know his name. Keith Urban was in town.

And yeah, I was thinking, oh, so Keith is in town. Roger Waters is in town. The Weeknd is in town. Like just there with that trifecta, you cover a lot of music fans. But I'm a fan of Keith Urban. That guy's got a lot of spunk and spirit and talent. But it's not a good show.

Cool dude. Yeah. Cool dude. Kind of a fairly hot life. Yes, that's right. Nicole Kidman, a good show. Cool dude. Yeah. Cool dude. Kind of a fairly hot life. Yes, that's right, Nicole Kidman, that's right. Okay, my friend,

so, and again. By the way, thanks to those questions, those guys. I didn't answer that last one particularly well. Well, I know, man. If there's not an answer,

like, I don't know if I have an answer either, but, you know, some people have that, like, bucket list and they're just, they need to, I don't know,

I need to see Buffy St. Marie one more time, whatever, you know. Right, yeah, I don't think in in those terms my good friend andy burns who used to work at q with and for me um who's a great writer and works for satellite now i think still serious i think um he's one of those guys that he's very very single-minded about who he has to see again and why and which records and very very formatted in his thinking that way and i respect it it's just not me now you mentioned tom petty really briefly there and i just saw i just watched and i'll just set the table here by saying so two of

my children are in ottawa this weekend visiting their grandfather and two of my kids are in edmonton with my wife visiting their lolo and their lola so like i've had this opportunity to just like look out for myself like it's been amazing like i can't tell you how much fun this is but i was watching this doc series on gary shanley which i'm loving like it's i can't remember what the title is but it's about gary shanley and it has the word zen in the title and came out a couple years ago so good did you see this doc it's on Crave didn't see the doc I just love him though so it must be good you will love it it's just so like it's just the way you know Gary's a complex guy and they really get

into it it's quite something okay there's a touch on his relationship with Sarah Silverman cuz they're such good friends well you do see her in it like she talks cuz they played basketball every week and he had a he had a hoop in his backyard and they they play basketball every week. And he had a hoop in his backyard. And they had people over to play. Is that a euphemism? He had a hoop in his backyard? No. That's coming later.

Jeff, that's coming later. A lot of euphemisms coming up. So I finish this. And then I'm on Crave. This is last night. I was kind of beat. And I saw Top Gun, the Tom Cruise movie, Top Gun. You might remember this.

And I realized, of course, I have never seen Top Gun. You might remember this. And I realized, of course, I have never seen Top Gun. It's like, this is this huge blockbuster everybody references. Even I'll say things like, talk to me, goose. And I know what I'm referencing, but I never saw this fucking movie.

And I started it last night. I finished it today. I just want to announce to all the FOTMs and to you, Jeff Woods, that I finally saw Top Gun 35 years later. And? Underwhelming, man. Well, it's so dated right for first it's just cheesy like it's really fucking cheesy i don't scripts scripts that appealed to the 16 year old or whatever the hell age we were um you were younger than that then um

but i was probably i don't know the year was it maybe like 86 or something I don't know, what year was it? Maybe like 86 or something. I don't know. Right. That was in my mid-20s. Yeah, I thought it was cheese then. But I never went for that all-American fucking rah, rah, rah, wave the flag, God bless America bullshit anyway. So I didn't like it the first time.

Well, I didn't like it the first time either, and that was today. Okay, so I just want to make the big announcement. I've now seen Top Gun. Hey, I had a guest last week down here in the basement named Reshmi Nair. She's the best. So I want to ask you how you know Reshmi and to share with you that she told me

she actually remembers you from Vancouver. Correct. Yes. So it was fun to look back at the fact that she had interned for me, sort of woman, man on the street as they used to call them, person on the street interviews she did. I was running Rock 101 and CFOX, which is kind of like the Q107 and the Edge of the West.

Right. And owned by the same company. So she came in and interned for a short time, and I recognized in her a great attitude and a great spirit and a great willingness to work, and she did a great job. It was so brief that I knew her then. And then fast forward all these years later, and I see her on CBC anchoring, and she was quickly my favorite anchor,

not because of the history know the history I had with her working in the west coast with me for a brief time more because she was the most natural and and and super conscientious uh presenter that I think I've ever seen on the CBC I loved Mansbridge she was my favorite anchor but but other than Mansbridge, she was my number two. And she quickly became my number one after he split. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, Mansbridge is great. I'm going to ask you a question later that ties into a movie Mansbridge's wife was in.

But Rashmina Ayer, excellent, excellent. I had the best time with her. And I agree with you. Yeah, she was fantastic. But one thing that struck me I thought you might have an opinion on is that I only know her from the TV and radio. I don't know her in real life like you do.

She comes in the basement, sits down. She's wearing a short sleeve shirt because it's hot out. She's all inked up. This I didn't know. She's inked up. She's beautiful by the way. Stunning. Absolutely. Carry on. Okay, so she's inked up. She's beautiful, by the way. Oh, stunning. Absolutely.

Carry on. But she tells me to start chatting about the ink because I didn't know she was inked out. So I have to react to what's in front of me. And she says she would never show her ink on television news. This is like self-censorship. I don't think she got like a, she didn't get a memo from CBC or anything, but this was her decision not to show it because she didn't think she could be taken seriously or whatever. I told her. I don't think she got like a, she didn't get a memo from CBC or anything, but she, she, this was her decision not to show it because she didn't think she could be taken seriously or whatever.

I told her. And I don't blame her. But it would be cool to be the rock star journalist, you know? It would. There's still way too many people watching traditional media that would not get it. It would be a disservice to the company that she works for. It would be a disservice to her, in my estimation. to the company that she works for,

it'd be a disservice to her, in my estimation. People are more ready for sexual preferences and transgender proclivity than they are for tattoos in 2022, which is still shocking to me, but a reality. Even though we live in a world where I feel like I'm now in the great minority, in that I have no ink, where you and all the other tattooed peoples of Canada, I think, I have no ink where you are, you're, you and, uh, all the other, uh,

tattooed peoples of Canada, I think are the majority, man. I don't see, I don't see a lot of, you know, you know, skin that isn't marked up anymore. It's very true. And, you know, strangely you make me think of the fact that I think we've talked about this before on your podcast, that I always seem to end up with serious girlfriends that have no tattoos. I don't know what that is even because when I'm thinking about what I'm attracted to or who I'm attracted to, they're typically covered in tattoos. But that doesn't work that way. They don't just arrive in your inbox. Here I with all my tattoos aren't i great when you're choosing to date

someone you know whether monogamously or not we'll get into all that later too but like when you're choosing to date someone whether they're inked or not is almost like it's never a deal breaker right oh certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker whether they are or whether they're not. It starts with a smile or a conversation or a feeling, right? It starts with a feeling. Is this working? Does this feel good? I can't date you because you have no tattoos. You know, but it's not an awful

prerequisite if that's what you really like. There's other people you could date. They say you don't choose who you fall in love with. That's a little bit romantic and maybe a little bit immature. And you mentioned, now again, we're going to bounce around because that's what I do, but you mentioned CFOX. And what was the other one in Vancouver?

Rock 101 was sort of the Q107 of the West, and CFOX was the edge of the West. Okay, I got you. I was sort of programmed around both. So CFOX, I am familiar with Seafox because it's a big station, and a lot of my buddies at some point worked there, be it humble Howard Glassman back in, I'm sure that was the late 70s when he was working there, but also Brother Bill worked there when he left.

I hired him there, yeah. Okay. I brought both Brother Bill out from the edge and Lana, gang. Who's at Indy 88 now. Yeah, I just saw in those two people such great talent. So I said, when I have an opening, I'd like you to come out there and work. So they did.

Well, well done. Brother Bill, by the way, is a peach. Brother Bill's listening. I think the support I get from that guy, and I've gone through some tough times recently, and Brother Bill's been amazing. So much love to that man. Agreed, yeah.

He's a good fella. We went through some stuff together in terms of me being the boss and him being the employee. I respected what he did, so I was thrilled to have him come out there and do Middays. Right.

So why am I talking about this? Because there's a new station in town. There's a new station in town. I'm just wondering if you've followed any of that. Like Sonic went alt-rock, and apparently now there's like three alt-rock stations in Vancouver. And Sonic, I think it's owned by Rogers, but they did this stunt where they played Rage Against the Machine,

the radio edit, and they put it on a loop. And then it got a lot of press from people thinking some engineers went rogue because they fired the morning show. Meanwhile, it was just a corporate stunting to get some attention because a big you know back to rogers again was gonna flip formats i just wondered if you radio veteran jeff woods had any uh any uh thoughts on that um you know another day another format flip another corporate format flip. Nothing new. Years ago, it was XFM, and then they gave up, and CFOX sort of took over and morphed into something a little less new rock,

a little bit of a hybrid. What do they call it? Active rock. When I was there, we were that. And then, you know, it's like how they look at the numbers. They do a little research, and they're like, where's the opportunity? Oh, we could maybe do a new rock station. We have maybe a slight fighting chance of making a few more dollars doing that

than the other thing we were doing. But also, we can probably maybe spend less money on staff doing that. It's really a numbers game, let's face it. And it'll work or it won't work. And the metrics, how do you measure that? that it's really a numbers game let's face it and it'll work or it won't work and uh and the and the the metrics how do you measure that well depending on who the boss is that's how you measure that and who the accountants are and what the board meeting is like that week well it's like in the wire you juke the stats and then majors become generals and generals become yeah you just

lieutenants you know and i don't mean I really people are like oh fucking Woods is being a cynic again I'm really not I think it's great for the people who are doing it it's great for the audience

who loves that music I love Ridge Against the Machine a lot I love some of the people even the radio edits I'm not a big fan of radio edits

I think that's complete bullshit well that song particularly you take the soul out of that song when you edit it it's just crap.

Radio edits is pandering to... The CRTC doesn't... It's the CBSC, which is the organization that answers all the complaints, but that's really an organization that represents the actual broadcasters. So they're policing themselves

so the CRTC doesn't have to step in. But radio edits always sucked, whether it's Lenny Kravitz, cab driver, or a multitude of other things. Not being able to say shit is like, and really, fuck. If fuck is not allowable, there's no wonder satellite radio kicks their ass.

Hey, you know this because you're a musicologist, but when the Rolling Stones were on Ed Sullivan's show, they were asked not to sing Let's Spend the Night Together. Yeah. Which is crazy, right? The edit was, because he self-edited live, Let's Spend Some Time Together. And he rolled his eyes.

Of course, the doors weren't supposed to say, girl, we couldn't get much higher. But Jim did anyway. You'll never be on this show again. Well, so whatever. We were already on this show. Fuck off. I love that.

I love that. Almost as much as I love when Elvis Costello gets booked on Saturday Night Live and then he breaks into radio radio. Because he was told, you can't. It was kind of subtle anyway, though. Things were taken way more seriously back then, right? It was, oh my God,

he's putting down radio. Most people that heard Radio Radio were just like, hey, it's the fun pop song. Oh, yeah, yeah. Most people don't know what it's about, right? No.

Elvis Costello's a bit of a... Anyway. So you've met him, right? No. You know, the funniest thing is the only rock star... I love his music, by the way. Sure, we're talking about him, his character. A lot of interviews just annoyed me about his attitude about other bands.

But the funniest thing is I'm in an art gallery in Toronto. I met Liss, Brian Liss, my buddy, and I bought lots of art there and interviewed artists there. And one day... Who was even doing the show? It was probably Bernie Topin. He's also an artist and lyric writer. John, as you know.

Of course. But I think for that show, Elvis Costello showed up because they're friends. And Elvis Costello is standing beside me flipping through prints that are, you know, P-R-I-N-T-S, prints of art in the bins. And it was the first time in my life that I really had nothing to say. I could have just said, hey, how are you? You know, blah, blah, blah.

And I declined. We were the only two people standing there together. Interesting. I just had nothing. I had nothing to say. Wow. Which is shocking. But ahead of it, anybody else. Yeah, we married a Canadian. Actually, him and, so Bernie Taupin to say. Wow. Which is shocking.

But ahead of it, anybody else. Yeah, he married a Canadian. Actually, him and, so Bernie Taupin and Elvis Costello have married Canadians. There you go. No, Bernie Taupin

didn't marry a Canadian. He, hang on. He wrote lyrics for a guy who did, David Furnish. As far as I know, yeah, David Furnish married the Canadian.

Yeah, we'll clean that in post. You know I won't do that. Bernie Taupin married a Canadian. No, it's kind of in post. You know, I won't do that. Married a Canadian. No, it's kind of fun. You can make mistakes. I'm like, wait, no, fuck. That's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's my fault. Too much Great Lakes.

Okay. So huge asshole, which I'm not calling this person a huge asshole, but his handle is Hugh Jazzhole. He says, Jeff, I know, Jeff, he he should narrate audiobooks his voice and delivery is awesome so jeff tell me all the ways you've monetized that golden voice of yours you just reminded me although i did have it written down in my little day timer um i have two audiobook auditions to do by noon tomorrow. I should really get at that. I've done very little work this weekend.

But that's one of the ways. Certainly, I did the legendary Horseshoe Tavern audiobook written by David McPherson. That was really fun. Which I own, and I had him on to talk about that book. Fantastic to hear you do that. I loved it. I haven't narrated a ton of audiobooks.

That one, and certainly my own Radio Records and Rockstars, which is still somehow selling in audio book. Yeah. But the other ways I monetize, well, the radio show still exists. The podcast exists. Well, name check the radio show again. Just name check it. It's called Records and Rockstars.

It's really Legends of Classic Rock with a different name because that was my thing, right? They didn't own the show or me, but they owned the name Legends of Classic Rock with a different name because that was my thing, right? They didn't own the show or me, but they owned the name Legends of Classic Rock. So I just changed the name. And Records and Rockstars is heard on seven stations. I've got Cool Market. It's not on in Toronto anymore,

but it's on Rock 95 in Barrie. It's on 98.1 in London, 94.5 in Wingham that goes into Owen Sound. But other cool stations like in Fernie, in Cranbrook, and in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and weirdo markets. I love it.

Love that you're still doing that. And we'll come back to a new podcast venture because I've got a lot of questions. But here, let me ask you this question from Mark. And I think I saw you tweet an answer, but most people hearing us didn't see the tweet. So let me ask you this question from mark and i think i saw you tweet an answer but most people hearing us didn't see the tweet so let me ask you again has any of your listeners ever confused you with jeff chalmers yeah i saw that tweet and and clearly him i guess because that's why he asked it mark Mark, by the way, is Mark. Mark. Thank you, Mark, for caring enough to ask. No, but I guess we do sound a little bit alike.

Jeff is super smooth, and he's got a really specific presentation. We work together, and we're friends. Once he cooked me a nice fish for lunch. Love Jeff Chalmers. I guess we do sound a bit alike. He does the posi. Well, you're smooth too, man.

You just did. You got a smooth delivery, so I could see. Somebody laughed about how somebody said, hey, does Jeff Woods talk so smoothly in a meeting or in the hallways at the radio station like he does on the radio? And they're like, yeah, he's a robot. So you're the same guy like you know and i have i should say i bumped into you outside of this podcast be it at like a lowest of the low uh

thing or uh where ubiquitous synergy seeker i just saw a human kebab on two weekends ago he was doing like uh like dj work between moist and and the Tea Party. Speaking of the Doors. He's a proper DJ from USS. Yeah, yeah. Human Kebab. So shout out to him. Okay. Big question for me and then I'm going to ask you about some

radio news that everybody's been talking about lately. But the big question for me, Jeff, is did you listen to, and it's okay if you didn't, question for me, Jeff, is did you listen to, and it's okay if you didn't, I just need the truth here, did you listen to episode 1071 of Toronto Mic'd, which was my tribute of sorts to Q107? I did not listen to it,

but I've listened to some of the interviews that contributed to it, including, you know, I participated in one. Yeah, you're on this episode 1071. And I was naturally curious if you checked it out, but it sounds like it's still on your to-do list. My to-do list is so long, I'm going to have to live to 137. But it's in there. It's in the queue, as it were.

In the queue, pun intended. There's just been so much talk about queue that I was a little burnt out, to be honest, with all of it. Okay, so let's burn you out just a bit more, and then we'll bring you back to life. I got a jam loaded up from Ryan Adams that you might dig here. Cool. Let's talk about John Derringer for a moment, because since we last talked on Toronto Mic'd, I guess the big spark was Jennifer Valentine dropped a video on Facebook in which she made some allegations against a man that she didn't name in the

video, but later confirmed to be John Derringer, who you worked with for many, many years on Q107. And of course, Jackie Delaney had been appeared on my show and made similar comments, allegations, if you will. And then subsequently, I've had Maureen Holloway on the show, and she's made similar allegations. And others like Andrea Ruse and Colleen Rusholm have gone public with some similar situations.

Terrible what Colleen says happened to her. And I'm just wondering now now long-winded way for me to ask you Jeff Woods did you know any of this when you were working at Q? What I'll tell you first of all is this that's very political isn't it what I'll tell you how I'll redirect that that's what Bill Clinton might say right Right. Is that everyone, whether it's in the private or public sector, deserves to live a work, rather, in a workplace that is free of hostility or abuse of the verbal or any kind of nature. And it's a pretty heated environment in the movie industry, in the music industry, in

the media industry. And sometimes people do say and do things that are over the line. Less so these days because they're called out for doing so more frequently. I mean, the 80s, it was a goddamn free-for-all, the shit that went down at radio, as you've probably heard stories about. It doesn't make it any better, but there was a different level of acceptability then,

or certainly a different level of accountability. But the Jennifer Valentine situation and the Maureen Holloway situation, and they're much more recent. And even, I know the Colleen Rusholm situation was in the 90s, late 90s. I should know because I was her boyfriend then and her boss. So when Chorus came to be, one of us had to leave, and she and I both decided it was better that I stayed because I was sort of climbing the ranks as a manager.

Colleen and John were on the air when I was assistant program director, and there was some tension in the room then. I didn't have autonomy as the assistant. It was Stu Myers and J.J. Johnston. Johnson. So anything that went down then was J.J.'s decision. And then shortly thereafter, it was Jackie and Andrea.

I was the assistant program director then as well. Again, Stu Myers and J.J. were the bosses. Any decisions that got made were their calls. And then I became program director, 2002. And there were no women in the room at that time in the two years that I was program director before I went out west, as we alluded to earlier. And that's me going, whew me going on one hand because i wouldn't have been able to put up with tensions that were over the line if i were the program director i didn't put up with any bullshit anyway in any regard with staff that were being mistreated i would go to

my boss and say this isn't going to fly for me. I didn't have a female on the air in the morning show at that time. So there were no tensions, and there were no things that needed to be addressed of that nature. Again, the allegations, as you pointed them out, are probably before that third-party review that Cora's hired, which is also another subject altogether. We're going to have an independent review. We're going to choose the people who are going to do the review. So that's not my business, is it? What my business is is that everyone deserves to be treated fairly,

properly, without disrespect or hostility. properly, without disrespect or hostility. And I'm sorry to the people. I'm sorry as a human being. I'm not sorry as somebody who was responsible for it. I'm sorry that they were put through anything that was untoward, as it were. And certainly it points in a direction that seems like some of them were. Now, there's been some discussion about, you know, what do you do with the two people alongside John Derringer? Like, let's presume these allegations are deemed to be accurate. Then Ryan Parker and John Garbutt, are they at all accountable?

Or did they have no choice but to go along because they feared for their job? It is an interesting debate. What do you think? I can tell you this much. I saw some people tweeting along the lines of this subject a few weeks ago when it broke, and people were instantly, some people, not many, some people were instantly jumping on,

what about those other clowns in the room and blah, they should be. Shut the hell up. You don't know. These are two guys with wives and families, and they're doing their best to do a good job. Ryan was an intern when I was there, and then he got hired full time, and John Garbutt, two wonderful individuals who worked very hard at their craft

and signed up to be employees of this radio station. So, you know, you can't paint an entire room with the same brush, and I can't imagine either of those people being abusive or hostile towards anyone, actually. So if there was hostility and abuse happening in the room, it certainly wasn't on them. So anyone who says the contrary, go fuck yourselves.

I, as a man who has never worked in radio feel like uh these two gentlemen uh brian and john that had they you know spoken up against this or gone against their boss on this that they would very quickly not be employed there is my feelings let me correlate that this way we'll go back to feelings let me correlate that this way we'll go back to uh my friend colleen for a minute yeah please when she um brought up what she felt was um unfair treatment in the room back in 90 99 pre-chorus in north york, the manager at the time, I might have said his name already, his reaction was, get her out of the,

I want her out of the building. Stu Myers or JJ Johnston? Because you said two names. It wasn't Stu. So that was the attitude. Get her out of the building. That was the kind of support people got that were claiming to be mistreated.

And so so you know yeah well that'll fix it right that was that was crap but you know corollary to that was that colleen and i were discussing who was going to stay and who was going to leave anyway so it kind of worked out nicely that uh she went through another radio well it made the decision easy for her it made the decision easier for her. It made the decision easier, but it didn't take away the fact that she was having a really hard time working in the environment that she was working in. There were other things at play then, too.

I've always gotten along quite well with John in the capacity that we worked. He was always respectful and decent to me, not because I was in a position of authority. While I was his boss, like I was Jake Edwards' boss, if I'd been a shitty person to work with and for, I would have been gone before either of those two people were gone. They made more money.

They brought in more revenue. I happened to be the person with the desk in the corner. But see, this is what many, all industries are like this, but it's the top, right? It all comes down in the corner. But see, this is what many, all industries are like this, but it's the top, right? It all comes down from the top. If the person at the top is this way, that trickles down and filters down. Leadership comes from the top.

Well, you know, it does. And the one thing that we have to really identify as being the abuse comes from the fact that it's a corporation. Corporations don't have a conscience. Corporations have a goal that is to provide more money for their shareholders.

Shareholder returns, quarterly profits, monthly profits, Christ weekly profits. And at what... That's the goal. That's the primary goal. And anything that stands, that's, that's the goal. That's the primary goal. And anything that stands in the way of that is,

is, is questioned and sometimes set aside as being not as important as the money. And that's why it got to where it got to. Because I mean, a lot of this, I infer people know, but for those who aren't familiar with the names we're saying, John Derringer was a very successful host at Q107

who generated a lot of revenue for the station, right? For his entire career. He's an amazing communicator with an amazing big mind and ability to convey a variety of subjects in a variety of ways. John's a star. John's a radio star. And he's been doing mornings on cue since Stern, since they stopped syndicating Howard Stern Show out of New York.

That's correct. He started on afternoons because they already had a morning show in Howard Stern. And then as soon as Chorus got rid of Howard because they're a corporation and couldn't have that kind of content, then John went to Mornings, right? Okay, so here, one more uncomfortable question, and then I promise to segue to much more comfortable, loving, beautiful things.

It wasn't that uncomfortable for me because it is what it is. And my main point, and you know it, is that everyone deserves to work in a workplace that's not hostile. I know, but I haven't got to the uncomfortable part yet. That's coming up next. You say that.

Oh, you're saying something uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, okay. And now the uncomfortable part, according to Mike. So those who don't like things that are uncomfortable can skip ahead five minutes, and then they'll just find dead air because you hung up on me. Okay.

Is there something more uncomfortable? No, no. It's not going to be that. No, no. I guess here's my question. So I produce Humble and Fred's show and Howard got permission from Colleen Rusholm to publicly state that she required a great deal of therapy after working. Again, this is allegations by Colleen Rusholm, that she required a great deal of therapy after working with John Derringer

because she had PTSD from the experience. She would have required a great deal of therapy after going out with me for three or four years. Yeah, but no PTSD from that. But that's all I know for sure. for three or four years. Yeah, but no PTSD from that. But that's all I know for sure. No, you know,

there would have been more therapy required on the part of Colleen after our breakup than anything that any employee could have ever done to Colleen. All right. But Eric, so just...

I can't confirm nor deny that. No, no, no. This is... That part wasn't the question yet because how could... Yeah, that was Colleen to Howard and I just want to let the world know that Howard got permission

to put it in public. Okay. So I'm not telling tales. But you know what therapy's like. Or maybe you don't, That was calling to Howard, and I just want to let the world know that Howard got permission to put it in public. Okay, so I'm not telling tales. But you know what therapy's like. Or maybe you don't, but everything comes up in therapy. Your home, your work, your relationships with romantic lovers, your relationships with kids, certainly your relationships with parents. Yeah, but PTSD, for that term to be used, right, and that to me, this is not like typical like typical workplace bullying like

this is really affecting her because my question for you is so you dated her at the time you must have been aware of how bad it was for her and then i wonder i just wonder as somebody who i respect like are you basically making a decision that you won't punch this guy in the nose because you want to keep working and you don't want to be blackballed from this industry that you're passionate about and want to have work work in like is this basically like a covenant you make with yourself the time that took john and colleen did afternoons together and you know she acted as co-host and he was the host and i was down the hall as the assistant program director of slash music director it was a very short time. It was a short period that we were still in North York

as Chorus was coming to be, and then we moved downtown. And so very quickly, Colleen went to Energy 108. And there wasn't really enough time to... It wasn't... It was brewing, but it wasn't brooding. It didn't go on and on and on. So it was over before it was even a major issue.

And JJ made that happen, right? And she was happy to get the hell out of there because she wanted to work in a radio station that wanted her. If your general manager doesn't want you in the building, you don't want to be there either. And, you know, nobody had any power to, you know, she could have gotten a high-powered lawyer, but, you know, it would have cost a fortune.

Right. But you managed to have a civil, you know, working relationship with Derringer regardless because you're a pro? Well, there's another wrinkle to all of it. At that time, John, and this is no secret to anyone, John was about to go to rehab again. You know, a lot of people in the media business have been to rehab multiple times.

And that certainly contributed to the environment that Conning was subject to at the time. No one could have ever guessed how much weight the substance abuse issues had on the way people were treated in the room. So she was gone before the rehab came again. All right. So that gets more complex, doesn't it? Yeah, that does, except that Jennifer Valentine was in the past couple of years. That's the only thing. Yeah, I can't speak to that. Like I said, I wasn't there for that.

But again, everyone deserves to have a non-hostile environment. And it'll come very quickly to be that the findings will find themselves in favor of somebody. Except we also crack jokes about this process anyways, that they hire this lawyer. And then I have spoken to people who, everyone I've spoken to, many of these women who have made these allegations, and none of them are cooperating with the lawyer because they need to, I don't know the terminology,

but they basically have to sign NDAs and not talk about any of it. And none of them want to be muzzled anymore. So I know that Maureen Holloway just said, there are files, you can just read the files, because at the time she made her reports. And I know that Jackie Delaney is not participating. And they're, you know, so it's sort of an interesting process that seems kind of frozen right now, almost as if the strategy, the corporate strategy might be that time is their friend. And as much time that goes on with this suspension,

the better it'll be when the decision is made. Well, you know, some people, alongside whatever their truth is, which might be the ultimate truth and the absolute truth, also see dollar signs. But a credit to these individuals, it appears from what you've just told me, it goes beyond, it's not about them wanting compensation. It's about them wanting respect, maybe? Because when you are disrespected and then you come back and say, I was disrespected,

what you want to have happen is some respect. So why would you sign an NDA to not talk about this to anyone outside of these walls? That's bullshit. And I'm proud of the women for taking that stand, if that's in fact what they all did. All right. We'll move on from John Derringer here to a different fair. And I'm quite excited to talk about this. But I'm actually going to pause and thank just a few of the partners

that helped make this possible. I want to say thank you to Palma Pasta, who has agreed to feed everybody at TMLXX, which will be September 1st from 6 to 9 p.m. at Great Lakes Brewery in Southern Etobicoke. And Jeff, I know that's a long way for you, Mr. Thornberry, but if you were able to make it,

you'd love the vibe and we would love to see you at TMLXX September 1st. I'd love to come. Thanks for the invitation. I've been to your stuff before. I love it. You're a good man. You're a good FOTM.

And Palma Pasta will feed everybody too and that's delicious Italian food. And I'll have Toronto Mike stickers from stickeru.com. Thank you, stickeru.com. They make quality products and they're good people. Love them.

They're in Liberty Village. But if you have a web connection, which means maybe not the last couple of days if you're a Rogers customer, but if your internet's up, you'll be able to go to stickeru.com and upload an image and get your stickers.

I want to thank Dewar, the world's most comfortable pants and shorts and even shirts. I love wearing their clothes because it's rugged and comfortable and I can bike in it and then I can wear it into the boardroom or into my daughter's graduation and I look really good. So you look good, feels good, fine threads. Go to Dewar.ca, D-U-E-R, or go to the retail store on Queen Street and use the promo code Toronto Mike. And last but not least, shout out to

Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of this community since 1921. And of course, there's a new podcast from Brad Jones at Ridley called Life's Undertaking, and I urge you to subscribe and listen. Jeff, you love it. It's a very different podcast than the one you're about to start.

But before we get into that, I have the song I've threatened you to play, and I think you're going to dig hearing it. But I do have a couple of notes as we segue into sexy or fair. One note I got, Jeff, was from someone who I won't name, but this gentleman said that your disclosure on Toronto Mike helped him understand his sexuality. He wrote me that he understood from your description that bisexuality didn't have to be like a 50-50 split. It could be a 90-10 split, for example. And I will say this really rearranged the way I considered bisexuality myself. I always thought of it as like toggled switches or something, like you're attracted to dudes or you're attracted to chicks,

and bisexuality means you're attracted to both, but it doesn't have to be that 50-50 blend, right? You're right, and I used to assign numbers to it, and I still kind of do, but I'm going to get away from that because I think that the word fluid comes up. It's not always an attraction to men. It's not always an attraction to women. It's not always at the same time. You could go a long time without an attraction to one or the other. It can be an attraction that feels differently. It can be in

a different way, at a different level, with different thoughts and different intentions. The reality is fluidity can change throughout your life. You know, you're really attracted to a woman and you fall in love and you're monogamous for X amount of time. And then that little tap on the shoulder for people who are bisexual is like, oh, yeah, that's still there in the back of my mind. And now it's in the front of my mind. And, oh, I'm attracted suddenly to this person. So it's different for everyone. It's not a 50-50.

It's not a toggle. It is different for absolutely everyone. Anything you feel is valid. And don't let anybody invalidate that. Be you. Not everybody's ready to admit it, though, of course. And I wasn't until I was 33 and I didn't actually do it in public until, what, 2016?

No, right, no. It was later? Great, great. I'm so happy you did that because there's people like this gentleman who write me these beautiful notes about how they hear you talking to this this guy trot a mic at his basement and then when you're explaining how you feel they recognize like these tent poles if you will and they're like wait that

that's what i've had difficulty articulating that's how i feel and then basically hearing that someone else is you know it helps people to come to grips with their true self and that's beautiful. I'm really glad. And I said earlier, it's kind of feel like it's my responsibility as someone who worked in rock radio and that was a place

where you wouldn't have expected that, you know? These big voiced radio guys playing Led Zeppelin. How in the hell could they be gay or bi? Or pan. Pan's another way of looking at it. Could be attracted to people who identify as women or men or transgender. The attraction isn't about the sex. The attraction is about the person and the personality

and maybe the physicality and all of those things combined. Anything goes. However you feel is acceptable. And to get really granular here, essentially you're taking genitalia out of the equation. Actually, sometimes I'm putting it in the equation. I know. I thought you were going to do,

Pete Cunio would always do his Uncle, Uncle, what was it again? Uncle Vince. Do you remember Uncle Vince at all? I don't know Uncle Vince. When Pete was on Humble and Fred, he had a character? Uncle Vince. Do you remember Uncle Vince at all? I don't know Uncle Vince. When Pete was on Humble and Fred, he had a character named Uncle Vince. So anyway, I thought you were going into one there, but I digress. No.

You know the cool thing, though? Let's really get into it a little bit. And I'll hand it back to you since it's your show. We would rather hear from you. A lot of, and i didn't know this part of the apprehension among a lot of people to especially men because it's always been romanticized and sexualized by men of women like women right because either they put themselves in the scenario oh i'd love to have a bisexual girlfriend because they're thinking oh she'll bring her girlfriend on when we can have a threesome and that's that's stereotype's stereotype. And that's, you know, it happens,

but it's unfair. But what I didn't know then, like I know now, and I can tell you is that a lot of women really like being, don't mind being with men who are bi. They actually enjoy it. Some of them aren't bi. A lot of them are. So what have I sort of moved forward rules for myself was, and again, easier said than done, was find a bisexual girlfriend because they have the empathy and the understanding of how you are and the relationship will probably go more smoothly. And I have had a couple of bi girlfriends, long-term ones.

And it was, of course, that's not the whole relationship, is it either? Just because they have that, just because you have that working for you doesn't mean the whole relationship is going to be easy and work well. Well, before I segue into the subject of monogamy, because I have a question on that topic, I'm just going to read one more note from Sex Ducks and Rock and Roll, which is a great on that topic. I'm just going to read one more note from Sex Ducks and Rock and Roll, which is a great handle on Twitter. So Sex Ducks and Rock and Roll wants to know your thoughts on erotic furry art. Right. I follow that account because that person

wondered what I thought of it. So I went on and, and it's, it's creative. It's fun. It's, uh, it's, it's lighthearted. Um, I call it that cause that's the way I see it. But however, he or she sees it, I think it's a he, um, is their business. And if they like it, then it's good. I always say anything that's consensual and not legal, fill your boots. You know, go at her. Yeah, yeah. Consenting adult stuff, yeah, it's all good, man. Enjoy.

Yeah. But I enjoyed some of the images from the furries were clever and fun and funny and more power to you. I've heard from some furries that were not triggered. That's a terrible connotation.

But basically, the spark that lit that fire might have been Jessica Rabbit. Like, Jessica Rabbit was hot. You know, you could be attracted to a rabbit. Absolutely. Right? That was a really erotic character. Oh, my God, yes. Wow.

It was like Mae West meets Bugs Bunny. Hottest rabbit I've ever seen. I'll just say that right now. Okay. Although that original Space Jam, Bugs' girlfriend, whose name I always forget actually. I do too. But she was pretty hot too.

Anyway, okay, it's getting hot in here we're getting warmed up here how many times have you been married jeff many times i've got experience in the marriage department i was married four times engaged five so of those five times did you marry four of them okay so guys so there's so four you got married, one you called off, the other one. And it might sound, it sounds crazy to me. You can only connect the dots in reverse. You do the best you can at the time, right? So when someone hears that, how could anybody be married four times that isn't a Hollywood actor?

And I'm like, well, you know, it was 85, and then it was 94 actor and i'm like well you know it was it was 80 it was 85 and then it was 94 and then it was you know 90 whatever right i had one decade who's keeping that's a bit excessive i'm keeping track but it's not important what is important is you do the best you can with the understanding that you have at the time. As you grow a deeper understanding about self, which is the greatest knowledge you could have, the knowledge of self, you try to do things differently. Know better, do better. So these, and again, you dated many people you didn't get engaged to, so you got a string of partners, if you will, through your life. And I'm wondering, was there ever an expectation, was there ever an expectation in these relationships? And you tell me when I'm

getting out of bounds here, but you seem to be an open book. So I feel like courageous to ask you anything, but I'm wondering if these are monogamous relationships, like, is there, is there an expectation you won't be sleeping with anyone else during that relationship? leaping with anyone else during that relationship? There was. In my marriages, there was an understanding of monogamy. I always say, you know, I had a conversation recently with someone that I was seeing,

and we talked about bisexuality, and she's not, and I am. And then she goes, well, you can't be with, we can't be with anybody but me now, male or female. And I said, well, that's the discussion we're having. That's the negotiation. Cheating isn't being with more than one. Cheating isn't, cheating isn't about that. Cheating is about doing what you said you weren't going to do. It's about deception. Yeah, it's about deception. It's the deceit. It's not the act. So if you decide that you're going to do it this way or that way and you do it differently, that's a cheat. But you don't have to be monogamous to have a relationship. You have to agree to what you agree and then stick to that and then revisit it frequently. How is it going? You have to check in. You don't just sort of agree to this thing and then expect 25 years later for it to have gone well without any discussion about it. Right. But in a good relationship, which I know is important to you, your partner is comfortable enough to tell you when something in the relationship is making them uncomfortable or unhappy. Yes. Related to sex or completely unrelated in every aspect. But what I've learned, and and finally is that you enter a relationship with um with with

full disclosure here's here's who i am here's what i need who are you and what do you need will this work can we agree to do it a certain way and if not let's not do it so what happened with this girlfriend i need the end of that story like so that you you are negotiating what happened with this girlfriend? I need the end of that story. So you were negotiating what happened. It's someone I still see sometimes, and we've agreed to what we've agreed, and it works. Okay, so... That's fine. And there's no deception, which makes it good for all parties. No, but yeah, you're absolutely right.

Let me tell you what happens sometimes, though. And bisexual people that are listening will understand this this unless they've matured to the point where it's it's in the past and they've gotten beyond it what happens is what happened in my case was while i knew i was bi sometimes when you meet somebody and really fall for them and they happen to be a woman and you're a man, you really do. Let's talk about fluidity, right? There's ebb and flow to your attraction to men or women. You really do forget about that side of you because you're so entrenched in this love affair with this woman.

And you really convince yourself. You don't even have to try to. That disappears. It really does disappear. And I went to three years in a relationship, and it wasn't the first time, where it completely disappeared. I didn't think about the other side of my sexuality.

One bit. And then I did. And then one day you wake. And it's not because I wasn't attracted to the woman that I was with. I mean, that was fire. It was fire every goddamn day. It was the most fire.

It wasn't about that. It wasn't a competition with that. It was the little guy on the shoulder that said, wait a minute. Remember me? And you do suddenly remember me. And you have that desire. And people are like, well, bisexuals are just like hedonists and they just want to fuck everything.

No, it's not like that. It's not like that. Interesting. You can have a really high libido, though, which that's the thing I used to say. Low self-esteem with alcohol and a massive libido is a recipe for disaster. So that was the story of my life.

But Jeff, us boring, speaking for myself here, boring straight guys like me can be in long-term monogamous relationships and still be attracted to other people. Right? Like this idea that you can never be attracted to another person is unnatural,

but you've made a commitment and therefore you can't deceive. You talked about, we talked about cheating is unnatural, but you've made a commitment and therefore you can't deceive. You talked about, we talked about cheating is deception, right? So it's not unnatural for you to have thoughts about other attractive people that you've met

or you've seen or whatever while still staying committed to this woman that you clearly adored. You make a great point. And I claimed monogamy, and I practiced it for three years. And then I said, you know what, I need to do this a little differently. Do you want to? And she said, no, I don't want to.

I love you, I love you, I love you, and I wish we could do this, but I can't accept that. And I said, okay. And it ended. And that's okay, too. You know, the intent was never to deceive. It wasn't a setup. In fact, even before we slept together, I said, oh, by the way, I'm bisexual.

She said, does that mean you want to sleep with other people? I said, no. I'm going to play a little music for you and then we're going to talk about it. Give me 30 seconds of this great jam, and then we'll see you on the other side. I couldn't see the future I liked the past too much

And I've been going door to door It's like I got something to sell Wandering like a fool Through the halls of the blue of hell So go on and rain down on us Go on and rain Go on and rain down on us Cause I give up Jeff, what song are we listening to?

Blue Hotel, Ryan Adams. This is a favorite song of recent. And I didn't even know where I got the title for the podcast. Oh, I just assumed you took the title from this song I did but I didn't know it it was subconscious I listened to a lot of Ryan Adams at home on you know it comes up on shuffle or I choose to listen to one of the many albums and and and I realized after I named the thing I woke up in a middle of the night a couple of weeks ago, and I'm like, I know what I'm going to call the podcast, the new podcast, The Blue Hotel.

I think I had the Chris Isaac song in my head, which is a cool song, but not as cool as the Ryan Adams track of the same name. And then I went, oh my God, that's where I got it. So I went and listened to both songs, and I realized that it subconsciously seeped into my psyche and that was the title. All right, I got some basic questions, some true journalist questions for you. Do you like the title, by the way, Blue Hotel?

Yeah, sure I do. Just the connotation of a hotel, right? Get a room with the Blue Hotel. And you work in blue. It's like the blue movies, the baby blues on City TV. Yeah, it works on a room with a blue hotel. And you're working blue. It's like the blue movies, the baby blues on City TV. Yeah, it works on a few levels, I think. I love the color blue.

And it's recorded at Wildwoods Blue. Okay, well, it's like when they named the Toronto baseball team Blue Jays and Labatt's Blue was going to be the owner. So it all comes together here. It's kind of like that, without the beer and the baseball. Without the beer and the baseball.

Well, sometimes you need to think about baseball to prolong the enjoyment. Hockey for me, thank you. So what exactly is the Blue Hotel podcast? It's a podcast that goes anywhere and everywhere the imagination dares.

It's not for everyone, Mike. It's really not. It's for the open-minded, the hungry-minded, those of us who seek pleasure. But more than that, it's those of us who seek understanding and connection and community. Are there people that don't seek pleasure? There are some people who don't for whatever reason. They deny

themselves pleasure. Yeah, there really are. Certainly of a sexual nature. They might seek pleasure of walking their dog or an ice cream. Well, no, there are miserable kind of said that tongue-in-cheek, because there are miserable SOBs out there who seem to be allergic to anything that brings them pleasure

or happiness of any sort. That's anything that can happen does or happiness of any sort. Anything that can happen does happen, but I think most of us want to have a good life and a pleasurable life. But this is more about what we touched on earlier, about empowering people to be themselves and to have a greater understanding of self and therefore to enjoy their life more through that understanding, the community around it.

The name came from the songs. I love that line, though. I couldn't see the future. I liked the past too much, and that's been a lot of my life. Dwelling on the past serves no great purpose. So this is a very sort of thinking forward podcast. It's not about what's been. It's about what's going to be.

Like, I think people will be interested to check this out just to hear Jeff Woods raw. Like, this is going to be your no-holds-barred. I mean, when can we hear an episode of this podcast? I'm going to launch at the end of the summer. I think the summer's over, what, the 21st of September-ish? That's when the fall starts. So it'll be available and published by then

on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and wherever you get podcasts. And it'll be a weekly episode, and it'll be about an hour long each time. And I'm going to have some features, and I'm going to include, I think that you're privy to this, I did erotic narrations that I continue to write. I was going to ask you about that.

They're 15 to 30 minutes, bedtime stories, as it were, and they're really, what's the word? Blue. Is this similar to Penthouse Forum or something? It's similar to that. I basically set up

a story. It was a Friday night. I found myself on the phone with a girl and she suggested and on from there and 25 minutes later everyone's happy. And the end.

So one of those each episode. Wow. And a guest each episode. Laura Desiree, the famed Laura Desiree from Naked News, has moved to New York City. And she does a variety of projects that explore sexuality and celebrate sexuality. And we've been friends for a long time.

And she's agreed to be my first guest. So each episode, a guest, a narration, some features. And I'm going to set up a phone line for people to call in. And I mean, it's an idea I got from Dan Savage, the great love cast. Have people call in and either ask questions or make comments and play them in the podcast and address them. And I'm not a clinical psychologist, obviously. My experience is not, doesn't have a PhD behind it. However, I've done a lot of living and I think I have something to

contribute. Without a doubt. And you have that voice, like this is your ace in the hole as you you know i think regardless of your sexuality uh you know if you're you know regardless uh you know i i mean again i identify as a heterosexual man but i would listen to you tell me some erotic bedtime stories some juicy erotic bedtime stories. Sure. Well, thank you. I'm a human being, Jeff. Right? I've got a pulse.

I have blood coursing through my veins. There's a lot of couples that have told me that they really enjoy them. A lot of hetero couples, men, women together, you know, that seem rather traditional and semi-conservative. And they go, hey, that podcast, that erotic story you did, we really enjoyed that. So I think a lot of people will. And you know what else I'm going to do? I'm going to do themes each week,

like I did with the radio series. So like consent, monogamy, open relationships, jealousy, oral sex, nudity, squirting, menopause, coming out, outing, sex clubs, you name it. There'll be a theme each week and the guest will relate to that theme. Love it. Okay, amazing. Now I'm going to ask you about a theme.

You didn't mention it in that list, but I know one theme you'll address in this new series, this new podcast called the Blue Hotel podcast which is launching in september so we can get all hot and bothered waiting for this thing uh bdsm listen i'm what does bdsm stand for do we even know what does this stand for dumbed down and not that anything dumb about it dominance and submission dominance and submission is really what it's about. And the power is usually in the submissive. If you're doing it right, here's what you're allowed to do. Here's a safety word, a safe word. And it can manifest in any number of ways,

from rope play to whipping to sp to whipping, to spanking, to, it can get quite extreme, but, uh, there are rules like everything. And, uh, and, and you'd be surprised, or you might not be, how many people participate in the privacy of their own living room. You know what? I don't think I would be surprised. Of course not. Now, uh, the importance of that safe word, of course, because when you're... Tell me, is this derogatory if I call it a kink?

Is that derogatory? Well, kinks are anything that are beyond what... Gets you off. What the Catholic Church would have you do. Well, that's everything. Only to reproduce, only to have sex when you're reproducing and make it...

Oh, dude, I went to a Catholic high school, and the gym teacher was teaching a sex ed, and the gym teacher said that the church was okay with the rhythm method, and he spent an entire episode telling us how him and his wife practiced the rhythm method, too, as their form of birth control. Right. Like, this happened.

I bet they didn't approve of the pull-out method. Well, if it works, I guess. But okay. So where was I? Oh, yeah. I can't imagine where you were. Where were you? BDSM.

Where were you last night? Where did you sleep last night? You know what? I will say. In the pines. Yes. Oh, yeah. Great, great standard there.

People think that's a Nirvana song. They're like, you know, far back that song goes. Okay. So Jeff, this is important. I'm watching, I know this episode's coming. So I'm thinking of the different themes I want to talk to Jeff Woods about. And I'm getting very excited about that. And then I watched Top Gun and I realized how homoerotic Top Gun is as a film. And I realize how homoerotic Top Gun is as a film, man.

There's like these guys and they're, you know, they're glistening hard bodies doing the beach volleyball and the whole like, what do they call it? I can't remember the term anymore, but the fly up things they do and all, you know, it's super encoded. I think this movie is encoded, if you know what I mean. Well, there's long been certainly a rumor that Tom Cruise, or that, what was her name?

Katie, Katie, Katie. What was his wife's name? Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes. It was Keith Urban's wife. We used to be married. I think there's been a few wives of Tom Cruise. But Katie came after.

Katie Holmes is the one I know of most recently. But there was talk of her being a beard, which basically means that she's married to him as a front, but he's actually gay. And that's just a rumor. I have no idea what Tom Cruise's sexuality is, nor do I care. But no, the characters. Forget Tom Cruise.

He's an actor. I know, but it's kind of fun to think that there's a corollary there between the character. But okay, I digress. So the safe word exists because if you're into being dominated and maybe there'll be some roughness there and there's a fine line between the rough play that turns you on and the rough play that scares the shit out of you for real. And that's where the safe word comes in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah rough rough has its limits too so the safe word yeah if you go over

the line you have a word because you can say all kinds of words in the heat of the moment god knows a lot of them have four letters and a lot of them are pretty crazy um but yeah safe words just it's just it's a safety mechanism isn't it? Do you and your partners have safe words? Yeah. Sometimes, though, if you've had a few weeks without a lot of contact, you forget them. What was our safe word again, honey? Oh, right, Ottawa.

Ottawa's a good safe word because that's an instant turn off. No, I'm just kidding. That was my first safe word years ago with with a girlfriend that i had okay i'm taking notes here jeff i'm learning a lot here okay so um this is now obviously when you're with a new lover and you know you mentioned you disclose your bisexuality before there's any activity like you're there's such power in that too by the way when i started doing that it was the greatest thing ever because it was a confidence right it? It was, I really am into this person, but there's no way I'm getting into anything with them for two reasons. One, unless they're accepting of it. One, I don't want to be

deceitful, but two, where's it going to go if they don't if they don't accept it and don't like it it's going to go nowhere i don't even want to touch it so so you just say it up front it's with such great i guess confidence is the only word right you're willing to walk away no absolutely yeah if they don't like the d jeff woods then they don't they don't deserve the jeff woods right you got to be your authentic self here. I think that'll help a lot of people, I hope, listening right now. It's like, oh, I can go forward like that because there will be somebody for you. You're not for everyone, but you are for someone.

So if you're with, let's say, a woman, let's say your lover is a woman and you disclosed your bisexuality, have you ever had a girlfriend be okay with you having relationships, sexual contact with other guys, but not okay with other gals? Because if you need...

That's usually the way. That's usually the way from my experience. It's like, and that's fair. That's completely fair. They go, well, I guess I can't give you that side of the equation, but I can certainly give you this side of the equation, so you're not going to go with other women, are you? And you're like, no.

But some people do, and that's an open relationship and polyamory and on and on and on, whatever we agree to. But I think that's a pretty common scenario. Guys who are bi are girls who are bi. So, yeah, you have a girlfriend who's you have a potential girlfriend and she says i i like to be with other women sometimes and and you're like okay do you need to be with other men other than me sometimes no so that's the same that's that's the quote you mentioned one of the themes you're going to discuss on uh the blue hotel podcast is

uh jealousy and i would think and again we're all human beings and we're all of our own bring our you're going to discuss on the Blue Hotel podcast is jealousy. And I would think, and again, we're all human beings and we all bring our own baggage to the relationship or whatnot, but our own experiences. But you're with a woman, you disclose your bisexuality, your girlfriend is okay with you being with another guy but not with another woman. And that is based in jealousy because why is she not enough for you when it

comes to a woman you hear me like like why is she why is she insufficient that you need to supplement that when she has all those parts too to uh bring it back to its base here yeah she doesn't have the male parts so if you're bisexual and you need both sides of that equation. But yeah, again, a lot of guys would be like, you're right, honey. I don't need to be with other women because that's where you come in. But I do need to be with other men because you're not one. And that's full bi. That's practicing bi.

There's a lot of relationships where the woman or the man are in fact bi, but they've decided to not even exercise that part of their personality. And they agree that they won't be with anybody, period, man or woman. Everyone has the right to express what they want. Everyone has the right to agree or disagree and move forward or not move forward. Make sense? No, it makes sense to me. I wish I could subscribe today, okay? I haven't got the Blue Hotel podcast on my list. And of course, naturally, thank you, by the way, naturally there'll be people with far more understanding and knowledge in these areas.

Some of my favorite books, for example, Esther Perel wrote Mating in Captivity, a great source of inspiration for anyone going through relationship questions. The Ethical Slut is another one. It's a wonderful book written by two women who have been with both men and women and been fluid. So at different points in their life, they decided they wanted to be with the opposite sex and then the same sex and and they they really explore and then the common thread among most of these books among most of the scholars who write them is respect

and honesty right yeah and with with honesty comes respect clearly and yeah absolutely no because because with honesty comes trust. And I think particularly with all these themes, but with BDSM, for example, trust is so key. Because you're giving yourself to somebody else in that manner. Trust is important.

Imagine if the safe word was Pinocchio. A bit ironic, maybe. I'm writing this down. Lie, Pinocchio, lie. That, maybe. I'm writing this down. Lie, Pinocchio, lie. That's another joke. I'm taking notes here. Okay. Earlier you mentioned Peter Mansbridge

and then I teased a story. So here's where that comes. Sorry, Peter, that we've gone from BDSM to your name, but we did. He might be into that. He might be into that. You never know.

So Peter's with Cynthia Dale. Cynthia Dale recently made her Toronto Mike debut. She was great. And I then reunited her with my good friend Stu Stone on an episode of Toast. Toast, by the way, is the new Pandemic Fridays. You once were a special guest, a surprise guest on a Pandemic Friday episode.

I felt thrilled because Stu was on and you were on and... Cam Gordon. Cam was on, right. Those guys were great. He's from Twitter. So Stu Stone, when he was young, like five or six years old, he played Cynthia Dale's son in a

movie called Heavenly Bodies. Did you ever see the movie Heavenly Bodies? I recall it, but I don't recall seeing it. It was like a flash dance wannabe. I hope she's not listening right now. But basically, I reunited mother and son in this. And the scene I played, I played a little audio from Heavenly Bodies, is young Stu Stone, son of Cynthia Dale's character, asking her what's an orgy what's what's an orgy so I ask you Jeff Woods what's an orgy you know I mentioned one of the themes of our little podcast Blue Hotel is going to be sex clubs and certainly you can find orgies within sex clubs and sometimes just one-on-one sex. Sex parties certainly have orgies where everyone is in a room doing it with everyone in a room.

And not everyone is doing it with everyone, but there's a lot of people having sex with a lot of people, right? And there's consent even in that because you sort of have to get permission to join into something. Or you may get invited into something, which is another kind of permission. You've been to these clubs, right? Obviously, you've participated. Yeah, I like Oasis in downtown Toronto. Okay. And I like private parties, too.

I haven't been to any lately. The pandemic threw everything into a tizzy. Well, okay, I have some sex club questions, but have you ever been to a key party? No, you know, that's sort of, yeah, that dates back to the 70s. That's a 70s suburbs thing? I feel like that shows up in a lot of sitcoms or something.

Maybe not sitcoms. My parents' day. My mom and dad told me of those things when I was in my teens. They didn't participate, but they knew of them. But at these sex clubs, when you enter one, enter the club, of course,

and I feel like I am going to do an Uncle Vince or something, but when you went... I had a first date at a sex club, by the way, but that's another story. Well, I like these stories. Okay, so when you enter a club,

are you not consenting? I mean, I always wonder, you talk about consent in a sex club. So like you can't, and I, again, I actually,

you know, I'm going to just confess to you. I've never been to a sex club. Okay. But if I went to a sex club, if I got Monica's, Monica, it's Mike,

babe, it's Mike. Can I, I like to go to, I know you're in Edmonton for a couple of weeks, kids. Can I go to a sex club? Cause if I went to a sex club and there's some activity,

some sexy activity is happening and an attractive woman and I'm attracted to that woman, I'm in the sex club now. I'm not allowed. You're telling me I'm not allowed to just like grope. You need to have a, how do you interrupt the activity to see can I join in? You literally say, do you mind if I join in? You would be, you would

be kind of waiting in the wings a couple of feet away. Okay. Let me, let me paint a picture for you. Sure. Um, the first, I think it was the first Tuesday of each month at Oasis was a night for women who enjoy the pleasure of the company of multiple men. So on that night, usually you have to go into the club as a couple, uh, either, uh, if you're a male, male, night, usually you have to go into the club as a couple, either if you're a male, male, female couple. You have to go in with a woman. Multiple women can go in together, but if you're a guy, you have to be accompanied by a woman, except for the first Tuesday of each month. And guys, single guys, were allowed in on that night. But here's how they deal with consent. Around each area, whether it's a leather bed or a leather couch, there's many different scenarios, many different seating

arrangements or horizontal lay down arrangements. They put a tape line, literally, a piece of tape. Like Les Nesman's office. Like Les Nesman's office. Don't walk, this is my office. There's no walls, but those are the walls. They literally do that. It sounds funny, but it's actually quite practical, isn't it? I think a three-foot perimeter around wherever area somebody can do their thing.

You can't cross that line unless you are waved in, invited in by the people that are in the act. Like a tag team wrestling match? You don't necessarily have to leave your area. Hey, you take over. I'll get out. I'll stay down with the rest of you schleps.

I need a break. I need a water break. I need a cold drink. I'll be back in 10. Take care of this. Okay, now here again. This is a real talk. It's more of an inviting someone.

I've never had an episode like this in a thousand and uh 79 of these things so i have to you know drain this one you're my first you never forget your first here but what if you're and again i'm not speaking for myself or you we are two good looking guys okay we can say that confidently but let's say you're an ugly schlub okay let's say you're a dumpy looking ugly guy no fault of your own you're just an ugly dude okay and you go to these clubs maybe nobody wants you to join in it's quite possible it really is i feel sorry for that ugly guy who came to the sex club people just like to watch too though and there's satisfaction and pleasure in that right voyeurism i mean that's a that's a big reason why a lot of people go. A lot of couples, and it is largely male-female couples at Oasis, for example, if they're still even going, and I think they are, go and just do their own thing and watch other people and like to be watched.

And they don't participate with anybody else. That's really common. Okay, then this is my question. If you go to a sex club because you like to watch and you can see, let's say there's a threesome going on and there's a bunch of oral sex, there's intercourse, it's a whole potpourri here, Jeff. Lots of activity here, okay? And you're now aroused by this. Do you need consent to just start jerking off?

No, no consent. Okay, so that... You're giving yourself consent, you're not touching anyone else. Okay, so as long as you don't touch anyone or spray anybody... No touching, no consent for that. Okay, so that, when that's... You're giving yourself consent, you're not touching anyone else. Okay, so as long as you don't touch anyone or spray anybody... No touchy, no spray-y. No touchy, no spray-y. That's okay, because, you know, there's got to be a social covenant when you enter the sex club that someone might watch

and somebody might jerk off to what they see. Very common. Okay. Actually, I've never really had somebody I can ask these questions to. It's like watching porn from home, only you're actually in the room. Right. And when you watch porn from home, you might be touching yourself. And you're saying there are some people who just want to watch and masturbate.

And be watched. Largely and be watched. Be watched. Right. That's a. Largely and be watched. Be watched, right. That's a big one for a couple. I had a long-term girlfriend. We went often, and we were never with anyone else there. It's kind of like public sex. You're not outside, but you're kind of in a public room.

So you're always one-on-one, but you kind of enjoy the fact that others are enjoying what they see. Yes. Okay. That's so common. All right. All right. Which is why a lot of people go to like a hedonism, an adult club, you know, in Jamaica or wherever they exist around the world. And they don't always have to play as it were with other people. Sometimes they just want to be in the environment because it's kind of sexy. They want to be seen and they want to watch. Amazing. Okay. Do you ever go to any nude beaches?

I really like nude beaches. Hanlon's I used to go to quite frequently. Hanlon's Point on the island. Red Sands Beach. Was it Red Sands or Black Sands? Red Sands Beach at Nelson, BC. Wreck Beach in Vancouver. Wreck Beach was too busy for me, but I liked the one in Nelson. I certainly like Hanlon's. It's great because there's a big, beautiful beach on Lake Ontario, as you know. Or as you've heard. Yeah, absolutely. It's nice and free to walk down the beach with no clothes on with someone you're in love with. Well, like, yeah, well.

Or not in love. I happen to be in love. So, yeah, that could be very liberating. That can feel great. Absolutely. Well, it's yeah it's it that could be very uh liberating that can feel great absolutely it's like skinny dipping i mean it's much more fun to go for a swim in your pool with nothing on than it is with a board shorts or a hot tub a hot tub with a with a swim trunks it's like going in a bath with your underwear on it's not fun you do it because of societal norms or your kids are around or you're a mother-in-law. Right?

Which is, you know. All right. So if it's adult consensual sex and you're not deceiving your partner, there's really, at that point, there's really, you know, it's all good, right? Like this is just beautiful pleasure, adult pleasure. Life is short. Fill your boots. Be honest. Be yourself.

Have fun. Negotiate the thing it is that you're going to be. And yeah, there's no harm. And you're going to guide us through it with the Blue Hotel. Now, one thing I want to ask you about here, and if you hear the music, that doesn't mean you have to go right now. It just means you can go right now because we did a great 90 minutes and I'd happily

do another 90 with you, but you referenced the Wildwoods Blue Studio. Where I'm sitting currently. Okay, so tell me, you own this? That's where the woods comes in? It's part of the house in which I live

and it's the second floor. There's a jam room behind me. There's my console where I'm sitting now. There's a lot of musical gear and there's a lot of recording gear, audio gear. And that's where I'll record my guests. Sure, because you sound great. Yeah, absolutely.

It's a lovely room. Blue Hotel Podcast resides, it's a brand new page on Instagram. So follow that and you'll get a lovely room. Blue Hotel Podcast resides, it's a brand new page on Instagram. So follow that and you'll get a real flavor. It's a private account. I don't want a bunch of, you know, family and friends just kind of like spying on me. I want you to be committed to this thing.

Love it, Jeff. You might enjoy it. Love your visits, man. Can't wait to do this again. And this one was a little different, but we caught up and then we had a joy. Love your visits, man. Can't wait to do this again. And this one was a little different, but we caught up and then we had a pretty fun chat about what you're talking about

on your new podcast coming in September. Loved it, buddy. I appreciate you having me on. Thank you. And now I need a cold shower. Or not. I'll need to do something. We'll have to figure that out

after we say goodbye here, Jeff. And that, that brings us to the end of our 1079th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Jeff, what's your Twitter handle? Jeff Woods Radio. Jeff Woods Radio. Are friends at Toronto Mike. Jeff, what's your Twitter handle? Jeff Woods Radio.

Jeff Woods Radio. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Dewar, they're at Dewar Performance. Again, the promo code is Toronto Mike. Ridley Funeral Home are at

Ridley FH and Canna Cabana are at CannaCabana underscore. Fuck those guys who took my edibles when I went to see Roger Waters. See you all tomorrow. This is kind of neat, Jeff. Tomorrow morning, in this basement, in this studio, Leo Roudens and Rod Black together again.

See you all then.