Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jesse Hirsh: Toronto Mike'd #1432

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

In this 1432nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Jesse Hirsh about Toronto Mike'd, Toronto Mike, and AI. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada and Electronic Products Recycling Association. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1432 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future,

means properly recycling our electronics of the past. The Advantage'd Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada. Valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed and focused on long-term success. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his in-person Toronto mic debut is FOTM Jesse Hirsch. Welcome, welcome back, Jesse. First time we've met is right now.

This is our first time meeting. It is a pleasure. The rumors are true. The myths are substantiated. The basement really lives up to life. That's all I need to say. And I mean, we have a lot of ground I want to cover. As you can imagine, I'm going to ask you about an article you wrote in Eco Punks. I like the name Eco Punks. That's like a Jesse Hersh. That's like a branding, Jesse Hersh branding, eco-punks. Yeah, no doubt. And we're gonna talk about dead stock,

given what you've just passed over to me, because I keep thinking about, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home, every time one of my animals pass, but, you know, the last digress. I'm sorry, I'm moving Jesse's mic a little closer there too. Okay, so Jesse, that's a good question.

What are you doing here? You live in the country, like we talked, and I'm gonna just shout out right now, I'm gonna shout out our first conversation, which the reaction was very positive. People are like, I'm digging this Jesse Hirsch guy. This was October 2023. Not that long ago in this 1343rd episode of Toronto Mike Mike chats with futurist. What a title that is futurist Jesse Hir about Toronto miked, Mark Wiseblog. Okay, I could have stopped right there.

What more is there? Hamas and Israel, Elon's Twitter, his final appearance on CBC radio's Metro Morning with Matt Galloway, also an FOTM, TikTok, the death of journalism and the public broadcaster and more, we talked for like 90 minutes. Just scratch the floor. what are you doing here like you you live in the country with farm animals etc what are you doing in Toronto I doctor's appointment quite

frankly I have a dog bite that my doctor wants to dig take a double check on I also had to do a little business meeting it was my mom mom's 75th birthday last week. So you know this year my mom's turning 75. Right on and I think we're also both turning 50 this year. So when is your 50th? Synchronicity going October. Okay so I get there first. I'm gonna get there June 27. But I have to pay respects to the mother right? Obviously 75 doesn't have to come too often and I said well does it count if I'm within seven days? And she was like, yes. So the stars align. And how remind us whereabouts in the universe this farm is? Where is it?

Just outside of Almont, Ontario, which is about 45 minutes west of Ottawa. So it's Eastern Ontario. I am very much deep in redneck country, partly because I was a little late to the Toronto rural game. Toronto real estate money had colonized pretty much everywhere except the fringes of Eastern Ontario, so that's where I'm at. And three and a half hours on a good day is not a bad drive for someone who is used to

these types of Ontario tracks. And I mean, you're combining these things, right? You got the milestone 75th for your mom, you've got the doctor's appointment, and you've got your Toronto mic in-person debut. Like that's worth the drive. Oh, a hundred percent. And this is where I also, my stepson came with us because he's getting a car, transferred from his granddad, and we listened to Toronto mic episodes the whole way.

What episodes did you listen to? Well, the 1430 was the highlight, of course. What did you think? That's fresh. Do you want to leave that for a moment? Cause I think we should get into that. I think we should really open that up. Well, let's get into it now.

I mean, I don't have many notes, right? I want to just chat with you because I think you're fun to talk to. So you really love to hold yourself in the air of being an outsider. And I think that is true in the sense that, you know, you haven't been employed in the air of being an outsider and and I think that is true in the sense that you know you haven't been employed in the industry right but that was a graduate level media seminar like Ryerson forget Ryerson Toronto Metropolitan University has never put on a

seminar on how to start a sports radio station or conversely the talent development necessary, the improvisation, the skills. Like there were so many layers of knowledge and stories, right? Not just around the first day, which I think was an excellent way to unpack it, but the history of sports radio, right? And how it worked.

And with the backdrop of this is how it saved AM, cause AM would have died, right? Had the sports format not sort of come in. So again, this is where if we lived in a socially just society, you would have got a master's degree for that, just that episode, right? And think about all the types of ways

in which you're doing what graduate students do, far more entertaining, far faster and with more knowledge and depth. Right? Where you've been all my life, Jesse, you want to move in? What's going on? The farm can people can take care of the farm. All right. I don't know what to say except thank you. Those are very kind words. And I was a little bit like mildly anxious because, and I want to kind of talk about this before we get back to how wonderful I am but I committed to 1430 the episode number 1430 I committed to that being an episode about 1430 going all sports like I had made this decision a while ago I did a very similar thing of

episode 102 one and I wanted that to be about CF and why and I like the crew I assembled flat so I kind of had that under my belt and I also although it was a little different because it was a micumentary more than anything But I I wanted a special episode 1071 1007 one so I've been doing this kind of you know here and there and I wanted 1430 to be kind of I wanted it to Be good and also I wanted it to be unedited Scott Metcalfe mentioned this at the end of the episode, but and for better or worse Nelson Millman's like carve that up and it'll be good or whatever and I think no like I actually It's important to me that this be complete completely when you I actually recorded the video which I will share later on my YouTube channel And you can watch that there's zero edits

I didn't even take one of those three seconds of silence and make it one second, which is a move a lot of people do, unedited. So you can imagine I'm going into like a two hour chat and you want it to be an unedited masterpiece of sorts. Thing, you don't know how it's gonna go till it goes. And I was happy with how it went and I'm glad you enjoyed it. Well, and let me take one step forward and two steps back. Cause on the one hand hand what I love about

Springsteen song right it was one step forward two steps back, right? That's like a brilliant disguise or something like that. Well, and it speaks to life in general, right? I think that's the evocation. He didn't write that. Okay, but but the issue here is there's no such thing as truth, right? There's no such thing as memory and what was interesting about 1430 was first it happened on Monday, then it happened on Saturday, then it happened on Friday, and then they were looking up to see. And the psychological research around memory is we reconstruct, we make it up as we go along. And that's the brilliance of say, all the different types of memories that you're evoking, that it's better than a historian who's trying to be objective, right? You're leaning in kind of as the fan,

but to take my two steps back, the John Poole episode. Yeah, John Poole. Was a fantastic setup to the 1430. Right. Because here you had a discussion on the contemporary radio industry, right? Thinking not just about CanCon in terms of the Buffalo, New York kind of license back and forth, but you set up literally a masterclass in how to make money in radio, how to do programming

in radio, but not done with the dry clinical nature of academia, nor the bullshit of business journalism, whatever that is. Instead, this was subjective, right? Because it's Toronto Mike and you're not claiming to be anything else. No. And each of the participants are offering their perspective and they're not pretending to be anyone else. So it's better than news, it's better than documentary, and at the same time, it's packed full of knowledge, which for my 23 year old aspiring game, developing stepson, it was a great education of the way in which media does cross boundaries

in the sense that it's not just about publishing versus talent or it's all a mix and mess and chaos of all of the above. Amazing, Jesse. OK, listen, I want to make the whole 90 minutes just you telling me about these great episodes of Charmite. So John Pole, which OK, so there's back to my little, I feel like I painted myself into a podcasting corner, which I actually really hate. And it's really unusual because this like we're going to drop this chat two minutes after we take that photo by the Toronto tree.

Yes, Dave Thomas, I know it. But I had this situation where I committed to 1430 being about 1430, but because of Dan Schulman's schedule and he was on a flight and then getting, you know, hurting these cats. I wanted Alan Davis on this episode because he was the first program director. Scott Metcalfe was like, he was like my quarterback on this. I really needed him there. I had Tim Haffey joining me in studio because I sent a tweet saying, hey, if you were there for day one and you want to visit, like, let me know. And he actually slid into my DM. So I'm like, of course Tim Haffey can come over. But Dan Schellman was kind of the reason

I had to get the scheduling done. So that was recorded yesterday afternoon. So we all got on zoom, uh, Tim and the, in the studio with me, but, uh, 3 p.m. yesterday, 1430 would record, but you can imagine the John Paul episode fell out of the sky because Bell sold 45 stations and he bought four of them and he's already an FOTM So I want to find out like I had quite I'm just a curious cat with questions and I'm like I need to talk to John Paul so that came together in a nowhere serendipity was quite effective, right? And you're right. It was a great setup for 1430, but that was completely serendipitous And then I had this issue where oh no, I have too many recordings.

1430 is going to be 1432 or maybe 1431. Like I literally had this issue. I recorded another episode last night right after 1430 with, I want to say Kyrie, but her name is actually Kyrie. I always, Kyrie. Kyrie. But it was very interesting about Big Rude Jake and I wanted to say Kyrie, but her name is actually Kari. I always, I, Keery, Keery, but it was very interesting about Big Rude Jake. And I, I wanted to do this.

And then I have, this is the thing I'm disclosing to you right now, Jesse, is I recorded with Alfie Zappa Costa. Do you know this name Alfie Zappa Costa? Only because I'm in your not so secret WhatsApp chat. Yes. That's true. You have insight. Okay. But Alfie Zappa Costa, he was on Tears Are Not Enough in 1985. That's how big You have insight. Okay. But Alfie Zappacosta, who he was on tears are not enough in 1985.

That's how big a deal he was. And he had a bunch of pop radio hits in this country, but he's also the guy you hear when you listen to four, three, nine, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, pizza Nova, a real Italian. I won't do it because they're not paying you enough. And also I get my pizza from Palma Pasta. By the way, I have a lasagna for you in my freezer. Which we know is why I'm here, fundamentally. As much as I had to gridges the halls of the basement.

Where's your 23-year-old right now? Like, he could have come in the basement for this. He's going through some weird affidavit process of transferring ownership from his cut. But does he like lasagna? Oh, he'll be eating this lasagna without a doubt and drinking the beer. I'm okay. So yes, let's shout out Palma pasta. Do you say pasta or pasta? I say both. Language is a virus.

I'm full worst case Ontario like Ricky, you know, I try to bend all phrases of the word, but in particular with Palma pasta, it's Doug Ford who I fundamentally want to link with the Palma pasta brand. I'm like, were you under the impression, the wonderful saint that is Anthony Paciucchi, that he would be somehow adverse to having Doug Ford in his restaurant? Of course not. So there are, yes, Doug did make a visit to Palma pasta last week and many people wanted to let me know. And I'm like, well, you know, it's a tobacco.

Like if you're a business owner in a tobacco, you don't have a relationship with the Ford family. Are you really a business owner? Well, he's Mrs. Close enough, close enough. Yes. So I have a lasagna for you from Palm pasta or pasta. If you will, it's in my freezer. Don't leave without it.

Thank you. Palm pasta, by the way, Jesse, this is a long drive for you, but I want you to know TML X 15 is happening June 27 from six to nine PM at Great Lakes Brewery, their Tobacco campus, if you will. And we're going to be fed by Palma pasta and your first beer is on the house. And I have a case of some, some fresh craft beer for you to take with you when you leave today. So taking care of you. And I know we're going to get back to dead stock. Okay. So this was just a primary cause bring it back to it.

And again, we're going to go all over the place, but there is a measuring tape here from Ridley funeral home. And it's every time it comes up, I think, well, the point of the funeral tape is to measure for the coffin. And I actually do bury bodies quite frequently, too frequently. Do you go six feet under? What's the rule there? It depends. I had to bury a body only a week ago and so we couldn't go six feet under.

We only got about three feet under. What animal was this? It was a dog. Just making sure it's not a person. It was a dog. Unfortunately, it was a beloved dog. It's why my lips right now are maimed. I was the fourth person this dog bit.

So this is why the doctor visits required. You got hit by a dog. You mentioned it and I was going to ask you about it. So the dog had to be put down? Unfortunately, this was a rescue that we did our best to try to help, but she was very easily triggered. We had her for a few years, loved her very much. She was just under quarantine, in fact, because she'd been an Amazon delivery person. But when she bit me, that was kind of the line. Yeah, Amazon delivery person, whatever. But you bite the hand that feeds, you gotta go.

Exactly, at that point, and she was setting a bad tone for the other dogs. But I've buried, unfortunately, a lot of animals, and measuring them before you dig, it's like measuring before you cut. So shout out to Ridley. Measure twice, cut one huge, huge on this note of, you know, you buried a dog and that's sad news.

So today this is February 16. Is it yet? 2024 today. So when I met my wife and we were dating, she lived with her sister and they had a dog named Rudy. And then eventually my wife Monica who's upstairs. She Left at the home. She lived with her sister to live with me, but she left the dog and her sister Had a family and that dog was a member of the family until today. So yeah today

This dog is now 16 years old. It is time like to do the right thing the humane thing and This afternoon Rudy is being put down. I went on Twitter and I did a rip Rudy in a picture of Rudy sleeping with my secondborn when my secondborn, like, over a decade ago. But yeah, so it's kind of a sad day in this family because sweet Rudy is being put down. My condolences. I mean, some people trivialize the death of an animal, but it is, again, to the dead stock business, I think there's an opportunity there to do it right.

And as someone who has put down a bunch of animals, allow me to recommend the final meal. You give that animal the greatest meal they could ever imagine, and allow them to truly have that meal. And it makes a difference. They go into the afterlife, not only with a full belly, but a big heart. You know, I like I like this sentiment. It's an easy ritual. I think for people to recreate for themselves

What's the biggest animal you've had to bury a horse? And unfortunately the horse I don't want to get too graphic I had to break its neck to get it into the grave I can imagine it was a big hole to begin with don't get me wrong But that was I got in a lot of trouble from the wife when I did that and that was why I was thinking You know, I should have measured the horse first before I took the hole Well, you know shout out to the godfather, right? Sometimes you gotta mess with the head of a horse. If only if only All right. So the paint again, we're all over the place

But I think we're doing great actually. Like I prefer this kind of an episode. So 1430 had to be dropped as episode 1430. So Alfie's Apacosta, cause that's where we were. Alfie's Apacosta is a very rare example of me recording something and it sort of sits on my hard drive for like a couple of weeks. Oh no. Like cause I Cause it can cause it's ever. Kiri came over yesterday. Kiri then was dropped this morning just cause I 1430 I wanted to give it a little time as like you know what it's like when you bury an episode. I just felt it was good and I wanted people to hear anyways. So I let it

have that spotlight for like several hours. Okay. Then Kiri drops Kiri drops and then now you're here. So I'm gonna drop you right away. And now I'm back on schedule. Like I personally want to drop them as I record them. I don't wanna hold on to episodes. Like I have clients and stuff is like, oh yeah, like let's drop it like on a Thursday morning.

And I'm like, I don't see this at all. Like you drop it when it's hot. Like people can listen on Thursday morning, right? But you know, this is just my style. So I'm the same way. I'm impatient. Anytime I create anything, it's published tag go. Just run. You don't want it sitting on the hard driver in the cloud just as a private anything because, oh, don't you want to share it? Release it. Like set it free into the abyss and it's like the atmosphere and then let people find it

and enjoy it. Here you're describing the ethic of the internet, right? Which is share and enjoy, share and enjoy and just get it out there as often as possible. So Alfie, I'm sorry, man, I know lots of podcasters. It's not unusual in this podcasting world and I'm learning about other podcasters and I'm shocked and I'm dismayed and I'm hearing, oh yeah, we recorded a conversation with somebody and we're gonna edit that up and it's gonna drop in three

months. Okay, this is, I'm hearing this, I mean three fucking months, if it's three minutes I'm upset with myself, you know, and what are you, you're editing your podcast? I do a lot of editing for my clients, okay. I don't want to edit. But let's take attention on that. Anything. Are you ever successful at conveying them, conveying to them why editing is not good? Why there's an intimacy to like, I had Hebsi on sports on board. So this, some clients embrace it.

Absolutely. Like, so Hebsi was on board. So the pros do, because. And Humble and Fred too. So and Humble and Fred and Hebsi, a couple of, yeah, MSM graduates, if you will, who completely get the live to tape. And we did both those shows live. Because there's an energy, right, that you will, who completely get the live to tape and we did both those

shows live. Because there's an energy, right, that you want to capture that the audience feels that I think is, you know, I've been thinking about Peter Moore a lot lately, only, you know, shout out to Ridley, funeral home, because he deceased. But like the way in which he thought about recording, that you wanted the listener to not just feel as if they were there, but to feel the emotion of what was there. And I find edited podcasts, you lose that completely. And this whole notion, what I've noticed people like

to get rid of the silence. So like, like if you and I, I don't know, ask you a question and maybe you ponder it. Let's say a whole four heartbeats or something like, okay, five Mississippi's and then you start to talk. I know podcasters who they'll trim that, right? So they'll say, okay, that five seconds of space is gone. That's one second or whatever. Where I would, I've been into lately is writing the silence. Like, like it's like, if it takes

you 10 seconds to reply in that silence, it's there. No, man, I'm bathing in that silence. Like I'm just riding that wave. It's like, well, the investigator technique, right? To let them feel awkward in that moment of silence versus someone like me. Right, cause that's when they'll spill the real talk cause they need to fill the void. Well, yeah, the social awkwardness, right? Versus I've got like a list, at least of five little items.

Like, okay, there's silence, I can throw it in there. Okay, what about this? What about that? So it all depends on competing hyperness. Also lately, there's a little trend I noticed where almost at exactly the hour of like, you know, sometimes I go two hours. I did two hours yesterday with 1430.

Sometimes it's 90 minutes. I, you know, we, we did 90 minutes, you and I in October. Sometimes it's a 60 minute episode. And I've noticed lately at the 60 minute mark when I'm ready to like, I'm ready to hit, you know, that's a false alarm, everybody. That's not really happening here, but I'm ready to hit that jam. And suddenly it gets interesting. Like there's a curveball comes and I'm like, no, I want to ride this wave for like 30 minutes. I felt it almost happened

at the end of the 1430 when Scott turned it back around on you. It's like, oh yeah, now you're really enabling a new kind of radio. Oh, I know. And that was my moment. It was like, I can, you know, Dan, you know, I had to go play with his kid. He was like, he was going to tap down. Show me what's happening out. Right. And then was my moment. It was like, I could, you know, Dan, you know, I had to go play with his kid. He was like, he was going to tap down. Showman was tapping out. Right. And then I'm like, I give me five more minutes. Okay. And I'll wrap this up. And he's like, okay, I'll hang in for five minutes. So at that point it's like, Oh, I really do have to wrap this up or, you know, I lied to the legend that is Dan Shulman. Right. So that's not allowed. But yeah,

Scott dropped that one on me and I was like, okay, let's ride this way for a little bit because apparently I'm, uh apparently I'm the new like spirit of radio and I'm digging that. On that point let me ask you a question then to what extent are you still engaged in a kind of spontaneous hustle where you're just turning the shows out or to what extent are you starting to think about the 1430s more of like the larger productions and the larger right and no small part because you're in a position to do them? Oh okay great question my friend look at you bringing the heat today. I can you know if I can remind you that I put together a four hour and uh 40 minutes was it? I don't know four hours and

40 minutes was maybe was 540 I can't remember anymore, but several hours episode 1000 Okay, so like I've always had this kind of idea of like oh 1000 should be special and then that was this ridiculous episode, but you know I don't know if I told you this the first time you're on but People like Fred Patterson for humbling Fred first of all he doesn't think anyone's gonna listen to a 90 minute episode So in fact he did 45 minutes of Dave Thomas recently and he told me that he said it was way too long and he hated it. And I was sitting there like, Oh, you might. Okay. You didn't really work it right. You know, I'm like, okay. But, uh, Freddie P told me that, uh, when I was

putting together episode 1000, he said, nobody's going to listen to episode 1000. And then I had this moment like, Oh, maybe Fred's right, but I'm still doing this because it's for me this time. Now I'm doing this for me. No one's listening to episode 1000, but that Ridiculously long episode 1000, which is a few years ago now. That's okay. That's why I'm on the cover of the Toronto Star back there It's like that's and that's why Jill Deacon had me on Here and now on CBC radio here in Toronto and the few things came out of that Like sometimes you have to do these stupid things like for people to like notice you. Well, it's not so much notice you, but it's stand out. Right.

We're just very similar to notice you. I always felt, for example, that books were bullshit. And on the one hand, I get why people write books. And, you know, as an aside, the lexicon episode I thought was fantastic and and the one thing I came today with an agenda was saying well it's in the book and the thing about books in general is it's it's it's a bullshit accomplishment it allows you to say okay I did it now what books don't make money right and to Fred's point people don't necessarily read books or buy books but something like 1430 is a book so if you turn out books and this is where

interestingly enough was it Hebsi what was the one you you had a few guests were basically the book was written in the episode. Hebsi yes he came back in January and yes the book and was written in the episode. And you basically wrote, but there's been a few episodes like that where at the end of the episode I'm like, you know, who's the literary agent, you know, capitalizing on this episode? Well, I just wrote the 1430 launch of Canada's first all sports radio station. I feel like we wrote that book yesterday. But that's my point. And episode 102.1, the director of the CFY documentary wrote me a note to say that literally

he listened to that. And then apparently that's like why he pitched this idea that's going to, you know, we're going to see this actual documentary that I was not involved in, except he does when he would go interview certain people like Geets, Romo, for example, he'd be on a train to go and he would listen to Geets, Romo and Toronto Mike. And I feel like that's a lot of like awesome research. If you can hear, you know, Geets in my basement for 90 minutes before you chat with him for your documentary. But okay, you said it's in the book. So just like, yeah, you can get all of those stories and more in a book that I wrote that will come out in October. Simon and Schuster were kind enough to offer me a book deal. Yeah. Yeah. And that's in the book too.

I'm shocked you didn't have this cue. Well documented in my book coming up. Yeah. Yeah. And that's in the book too. So it's a good read in my book coming up on how I was able to turn it around. It's a pretty good ride in my book. I think readers will enjoy it. Well, that's another one in my book, buddy. That's another one in my book. Okay. That's episode 700, by the way, with Nick Kiprios. And it's in my, I have a soundboard here and I have a tab for the lexicon episode that

you were alluding to. Yes. Shout out to FOTM Hall of Famer, Cam Gordon and future FOTM Hall of Famer, uh, VP of Sales, because I liked the vibe of that episode so much that I've actually pitched them this quarterly episode of Toronto Mike, Toronto Mike FOTM cast. And I said, it's, it's you two in here and we'd be recap the previous quarter in the TMU, but not, and, uh, they're into it. So, so listen, listen, everybody who can hear my voice now already subscribed to Toronto

Mike, listen for FOTM cast starring cam Gordon and a of Sales Tyler. Cause was that the first episode in which the, uh, you know, Toronto might creative universe started to kind of come into fruition? Uh, which episode? The lexicon? No, no, no, no, no. I don't think so. I think, uh, it's been, it's been brewing for a long time. I think you just, was that the first episode in which it was formalized? Was that? Cause that was the first, like the lexicon episode is where you basically you're

breaking the fourth wall and you're saying yeah that's right there's something going on here kids here's the keywords. Maybe maybe but now that you have the insight into there's the whatsapp group for the some FOTMs are in the whatsapp group and if you think you belong there send me an email and we will discuss because it's kind of an interesting group where we talk about this inside stuff. Although I would say if like myself or Wise Blot, you don't think you belong there,

you can still be there too. Wise Blot is the straw stirring that drink there because he doesn't, have you noticed the tweets have evaporated? The newsletter is gone for all intents and purposes. So where do you get your wise plot? Where do you get it?

Yeah. That's why I'm in the WhatsApp group. Right. Well, because the core, even the Toronto Mike, they were monthly for a long time, as you know better than anybody, because you have a great relationship with Mark Wise Blot, but they were monthly for a long time. Then they were before that they were quarterly. And then I was kind of keen to get them back to quarterly

but there's no mark wise blood scheduled in my Toronto Mike you know robust cal Google calendar for Toronto Mike that's why is that we change that you got to talk to your buddy mark he knows the doors open like I've been very clear with him and okay so who died mojo Nixon died. And in the chat, Mark Wiseblood kind of told a nice little story about his day with Mojo Nixon. And I dug the story and I privately messaged Mark Wiseblood, FOTM Hall of Famer. And I said, Mark, jump on a zoom with me and let's have that chat about Mojo Nixon. Cause I do these monthly memorial episodes for Ridley Funeral Home and I enjoy doing that and piecing that together. And he's like, nah, man, you don't know. There's people out there who knew him much better and you should talk to them. But he's missing the

whole point. Like I don't want to talk. I wanted to talk to Mark Wise blot about this particular day with Mojo Nixon. I don't actually want to talk to like his manager or whatever. But so that's that's not happening either So I do reach out and try but well and that's just point There's nowhere to get your there's nowhere to get the wise blood fix because he's nowhere public right now Well, and and to me this is the benefit of the larger extended universe is that it's it's about the characters you collect along the way and Wise blood is one of those characters And I would like to hope that

the reason that this below the surface is just to create demand and that he's got some crazy project that he's working on. You're giving him a lot of credit there. He does work for the Canadian Jewish News and I know he's doing things there but that's stuff we don't see. But he has a voice that he needs to express and if he doesn't express it, he will explode. You know, I think we're seeing bits of it in the chat and that we're seeing that's why he's not exploding because he at least he can go there and share thoughts and insight and you know, oh, this person died and you don't know this name, but this is what they did and that kind of stuff, which is what I always liked about him.

He started these memorial episodes for Redley funeral home and I only carried on myself because he, he tapped out and uh, yeah, he's in the group. He still can release that so he doesn't explode, but it would be nice if we had a public place we can point to, to, to, to enjoy like, uh, his insights in his, you know, how his mind works and connecting all these things. Cause there's only one Mark Weisblat like I am not a Mark Weisblatt replacement there. He's a unicorn. And I told him.

There is no Mark Weisblatt. No, he's a unicorn, right? Like, so anyway, I know, and I know it's funny. We're talking about Mark Weisblatt, but he's listening to us right now. So- Maybe watching. Bring back the damn newsletter, man.

Maybe there's no money in it right now, but you enjoy writing. You enjoy surveying everything. You haven't shut down, you know, following what's going on. Start the newsletter tomorrow. Like bring it back. You have you own the list. St. George's.

Something else with that same audience because they'll eat up whatever it is that you're off. Do something because that list is getting dusty. I used to work in this universe. Like that list is getting dusty. You have a list of subscribers to this podcast, sorry, to this newsletter and they've opted in and say Joseph nicely gave you this. But let's pivot it back. What would it take for you to produce the 1236 podcast? How many sponsors would Mark need to line up for the 1236? Because maybe the because I mean the 1236 newsletter was great don't get me wrong

but the 1236 episodes on Toronto Mike that was the shit when you're preaching to the choir here yeah because I know you know how to butter my bread but at the same time fundamentally your lasagna this is where you don't really need extra butter this is where I add my hot sauce under my lasagna. But you need to on some level have, like Mark needs collaborators, right? Like I think he can do his own thing on his own. But I was his wingman. I loved being his wingman and I feel I spoke wise blood, like I understood what wise blood needed in a coach. Remember, he told the story on Toronto Mike about St. Joseph media tried to have a podcast

for him, didn't hire me. So they had the, uh, the Kirkland brand Toronto Mike and it didn't work. And I say, Hey, we don't need the Kirkland brand Toronto. Mike is the Kirkland. I don't know. He wouldn't name them. Fair enough. I wish you know what I asked wise, but I said, please, I want to hear that episode. Like I won't put it in public. Yeah. I want to hear the episode of, of that was, you know, not worthy of being shared publicly. Like, I just want to hear it.

Because as you know, I don't edit any wise blood episodes and I probably have, I'm won't do the math cause I'll, I'll screw it up, but I have hundreds and hundreds of hours of Mark and I talking through the years that none of it edited. of hours of Mark and I talking through the years that none of it edited and his his attempt to do that with the with the Kirkland branch on a mic and I'm not saying I'm so great but I'm saying I know how to co-host a podcast of Mark wise blood yes and I will tell you why to bring our conversation full circle it's called live it's called improvisation and nobody wants to do that that's why I was kind of asking

This is called beer because we you know, why's blood does all of his drinking? Alcohol has always been part of media production The glory days of City TV was when the green room was filled with tons of free booze But no, I I think fundamentally what you do differently compared to everyone else is the live. And it's not just the courage to go live. It's the comfort you give to the guests, like with the pod co the podcast awards episode, right? And that was an excellent episode because it was informative, but also because you played a different role in facilitating the dynamic or the vibe or rhythm of that show, right?

Compared to say the other two episodes, since we're still answering the first and only question you asked, which was what episodes have I listened to recently? That's all you need. The Kathleen Wynn and Pam Wallen episodes. Oh, right, okay. Because both of those I felt,

not just because they were relatively close to each other in terms of broadcast, but those are two ideological opponents, right? I mean, Pam's pretty far right, and Kathleen Wynn's pretty far left and yet both were amazing conversations because here's the other thread that you keep pulling out perhaps for your own narcissistic reasons, aging, right? And dealing with aging and understanding aging because both of those conversations it really did well. Kathleen in particular because of the health issues she's going through. But Pam, you know Pam has this kind of joie

de vivre and like it's disrespectful to say old age but fuck it. In old age, you know and this is a model for us at 50 to be looking towards right? To think about how are we going to spend the next four decades of our life right? Imagine if we do have another four decades, five decades to go, that's a lot of time, man. Like- I'll take it, wow. How many episodes are you gonna get to in that stretch? I think yes, absolutely.

So the Kathleen Wynne aging stuff was because I had read a P. She published and it inspired that kind of line of thought. And also the other side is like, I actually have zero interest in talking about, I didn't wanna talk about gas plants and policy. Like I just, that was, I don't want to bore myself in a conversation once in a while. I find myself bored and I'm glad to hear you enjoy the Canada podcast award episodes because I actually legit wasn't sure in the room if it was any good.

And sometimes I come into 1430 episode. I'm like, I enjoy that. I had to sit back at 1430 and let them go. That's true. That, and that's something I think that's something just had to sit back at 1430 and let them go. Yes, true. And that's something, I think that's something I've learned to do that when you get these people on, talk, reminiscing like 102.1, I did this too, but just get the fuck out of the way. Yeah. Like get out of the way and let them talk. And then once in a while, you'll have to, you know,

steer as like the moderator, but just try to get away. But it's also the difference between the production that goes in ahead of time. That episode took a lot to just get those people on the call, right? CBC would have had three people doing that job. Right? You get, once you get on the call, once you have it on the call, then it's autopilot. It takes itself from there. That's part of the trick. Man. Awesome. Yeah. So the Canada podcast awards, you enjoy that app. I enjoyed it in the industry context, right? I mean, you know, as I'm going to,

I'm terrible with names. COVID killed my brain. Who was the fellow from North Bay, the guitarist from North Bay? Sean Kelly. That was a great episode. The Sean Kelly episode was fantastic in part because for someone like me, who's not musically literate, it really helped me connect all these different bands, all these different groups. And then the Nelly Furtado connection, you know, again, these different groups and then the Nelly Furtado connection, you know, again, was a little bit of a twist. But that was my point about mapping ecosystems. Academics, for the most part, produce stuff that nobody wants to read.

Journalists produce stuff that nobody wants to read five days from now. You're doing something in the middle, which is not academic, but it's research. And it's not journalism because it's research and it's not journalism because it's subjective but it is storytelling and it's a kind of a documentary but not documentary that I could only describe as you're mapping an ecosystem because fundamentally it's in service of your interest, your curiosity which means you're educating yourself and you've been educating yourself in a didactic way

that leads me to the question, okay, buddy, what are you gonna do with it? And on the one hand, you dodged my question of how many more episodes are you gonna make till later, but this is where I'm starting to push you. What was the question I dodged? I didn't mean to dodge it. What was the question?

How many more episodes are you gonna do? Well, I don't know. The answer is I don't know. You don question I dodged? I didn't mean to dodge it. What was the question? How many more episodes are you going to do? Well, I don't know. The answer is I don't know. Like you don't have a target. You don't have a goal. You don't have aspiration. No, like I know you're going to do it for the next 50 years. I'll do it until it's not fun.

I think like I think it's so long. Like the no one said, Mike, you got to do five fucking episodes a week. Right. Like I this is the question you ask most of your guests, the retired pros. Right. Right. Right? How long will you go? Yeah. Like, are you retiring? Are you enjoying retirement? Yes, golf's great. They all say

golf. Do you golf? I mean... I don't golf. I mean, that could be a problem. I'm kidding. Do you golf? I do, but not anymore. I farm now. You farm now. Okay. Yes. Well, maybe I'll join you on the farm here, help you bury those horses or whatnot. But

I want to just give some props to those who are on the live stream. So this episode is live at live.torontomike.com something I don't actually promote. Why don't I promote it? Like I don't actually put a public cause they have to moderate it. I don't know. I don't mind moderating them. Kind of like to glance in once in a while. I did share in the, again, the, the FOTM WhatsApp group.

I said, Hey, we're going live at one o'clock. So some people from there are here. And I just want to say hi to Andrew Ward, who says, Jesse's brilliant enumeration of episodes is a podcast, that's in all caps, is a podcast. Could listen to you both have a conversation all day. Thank you, Andrew Ward. Mucho gracias.

What a sweetheart. Also, I'm just going up here, Basement dweller. Oh, and that was okay. Oh, and Cambrio's here. Hello to you, Cambrio. But Moose Grumpy, I want to say hi to her. She's here. She says, oh God, not Nick Kiprios, that laugh, yuck. And Andrew says, just listening to those Kiprios clips makes him out to be a real creep. So I don't know if it makes him out to be a creep, but I did not enjoy my conversation with Nick hip Rios because when you ask a question and somebody says It's in the book buddy. It's in the book. That's I'm not looking for that Like that's not at all what I'm looking for

And this is where we can give them a pass and say that the publishing company probably put them up to it, right? There there is a real racket to book publishing that unfortunately, you know, taints the whole. I'm mad at Nick Kiprios for this real reason. Well, that I didn't like, but also that that was an in-person episode 700 that I promoted. And literally, I think it was like an hour before I was expecting a knock on the side door. I got a message from him saying,

sorry, buddy, gonna have to zoom this in. I gotta watch a hockey game or something at, uh, whatever it was, four o'clock or something. So I don't like the bait and switches like from the, like Pamela Wallen was a zoom. Yes. But if I know if I can, you know, I'll make my own Alfie's apacosta was assumed he's in Edmonton. Uh, let me make my own call in the zooms. Don't tell me you're going to be here in person and then switch it to a zoom. Cause often I don't want to do it via zoom. I only want to do it in person and I agreed to it because you're gonna be here in person and then switch it to a zoom because often I don't want to do it via zoom

I only want to do it in person and I agree to it because you're in person and then you move it to zoom and that's bullshit Well, it's a different vibe. It's a completely it takes away the fun part and then to to pile on the We're zooming and I'm gonna tell you that yes, I that oh you heard I dated Joan London when I was a New York Ranger It's in the book buddy. It's in the book. No, that's bullshit, Jesse. I'm just feeling better talking about this. But what about you know, instead of this Toronto Mike digital services include book publishing? No, why not? It's digital. It doesn't include it's not everything I didn't know. I don't know. The answer is I never

considered book publishing. Well, think about the way technology works today. You could have a conversation with a retired athlete, a retired broadcaster. Peter Kent. That was a very interesting conversation. Right, that's what I'm thinking, Peter Kent. Didn't know what I was going to get from Peter Kent and I left that episode absolutely loving it even though the guy's a Harper cabinet minister, who would have thunk it?

Although Peter Kent's a great example only because that conversation was multiple books. There's very few guests who have the depths and range of a Peter Kent because one of the books you could have done was just his brother, right? As a spinoff of him. But again, imagine you take any athlete who at the end of their career, they have a conversation with Toronto Mike, and part of the deal that you offer their management is a book.

All they need to do is have a 90 minute conversation with you, and you give them a book at the end. So Mike says, Jesse, how do you do this? Yeah, how do you do this, Jesse? It's this thing, and I'm gonna use the Kleenex term, rather than, it's this thing called Chat GPT. And Chat GPT allows you to take say a YouTube video, an audio file, it will instantly transcribe everything in the file, it'll instantly index and itemize all the subjects in

the file, which you could then structure. You could say, all right, what would it be at a table of contents? You're like, no, no, no, move section three to section one, kill section two. Oh, and you forgot about everything we talked about in terms of tiers are not enough. We wanna make sure that that's in the appendix. That's an anthology. Yes, but my point is the technology exists now

to turn human conversations into media byproducts instantly. All it requires is the guidance to ask the questions, to frame the conversation, right? And then like how many athletes are going to know that this even exists? The same way that most companies don't even know that they can do a podcast. But fundamentally, you have the digital literacy that allows them to do it. So you say, come on to my show.

And then the byproduct of my show will not just be a great episode, but we'll have a book which you can then turn around and sell to your fans via Instagram, via TikTok, via all those social platforms out there. Well, Jesse, you've convinced Moose Grumpy who says I should get into, she goes, yes, you could get into ebook publishing.

So are we talking about ebooks? No, real books. Like actual dead tree. Dead tree. Okay, I've never considered this. This is the scary world of digital is that everything is on demand. Now, don't get me wrong,

chat GPT today is what Napster was 20 years ago, right? It's all based on piracy. It's huge violation of copyright, but Napster didn't fundamentally go away. It just became iTunes, right? We were Spotify. We just pay for a few dollars a month, but then we still get access to all the world's music.

Chat GPT is going to be something similar where yes, it is a gross violation of copyright as we know it, but it is rapidly accelerating media production as we know it. And if you happen to already be a prolific media producer, then you already have an advantage in terms of creating new products out of the same process that you're already engaged in. This would be amazing, says Andrew.

You could easily transcribe 100 of the best ones. Yeah. Okay, but here's the thing. So think about the back catalog, well, you know what? Yes, there's a, you're right. There's a well, so that's where the first dozen books of the TMDS publishing house are sourced. Yeah, I can't just, you know, publish a book. I have to publish a million books.

Okay, so, but you know, you say all this and you're making great sense here. And then I think about the fact that I got a million balls in the air, forget about the fact that I'm like addicted to a 90 minute bike ride a day and I got four kids and all this stuff right in a wife and four kids, but like I have a million balls in the air and still like at TMDS, there is a me, myself and I like doing everything. You know, you mentioned the 1430 episodes, so yeah, I gotta make sure that drops as 1430. I gotta schedule it. I have to

invite people, get schedule it. I gotta do, you know, that drops as 1430. I gotta schedule it. I have to invite people, schedule it. I gotta do, get my clips loaded up. I had a clip that no one I think on the Zoom had actually heard since it happened. Like I found the launch clips and all this stuff. Scott Metcalf didn't even know I had all that stuff. That was a big surprise for him. But like where, like I need somebody to help me.

So I'll give you two answers. You're gonna do it for me. And these are the two quick answers. No, you somebody to help me. So I'll give you two answers. You're gonna do it for me. And these are the two quick answers. No, you can't afford me. I mean, you could, yes. That's the third answer. We'll come back. The first answer is schools, right?

This is why I'm saying that you have a phenomenal educational resource, the Guelph-Humber Journalism School, or the Toronto Metropolitan University Journalism School, given that there are no jobs for journalists, would love to work with someone like yourself and provide free student labour to do a lot of the bookings and do a lot of the research and help you figure out how some of this AI. So that's option number one.

Here in Toronto, very available option because of all these young academic talent. I can take advantage of the fact it's an ever shrinking media mainstream media universe. Yes yes. Option number two which I've just thought of on the fly is the Mark Weisblad option because I bet you he would do a fantastic job at this so this would be saying how do I integrate Mark Weisblod into the TMDS? I can't tell you how many conversations I've had since the St. Joseph media decision. I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with Mark Wiseblood. Like summits, we've had summits.

Yes, that's what they are. That is actually a very excellent way to describe it. We've invited VP of Sales has been in on many of these summits. So you know, yeah, okay, that's an interesting option that you just thought of there too. And I say this only because I've yet to really get from Mark what his take is on all these AI tools, but he'd be fantastic at it. If only because he's a disbeliever, he's a skeptic.

So he knows that these tools are just tools. Do you ever get concerned about the fact that we haven't backfilled the Wise Blot position? Like there is no backup. So let's say, okay, this won't happen, but let's say Wise, let's just say he wins a lottery and he goes to a remote island to live the next six decades of his life in the sun drinking from a coconut or whatever.

So Wise Blot's gonna tap out, you know, like Chris Sheppard style. He's out of here off the grid and everything. Okay. That's a documentary I want to see. Yeah, well Chris Sheppard. I'm working on it. But then you know what? I was actually big on that and then I actually had a bike ride and I said, you know, if I would like to have the right to disappear, like

I'm like, I would like to disappear. You know, journalists don't care about that, right? That's the media. Okay. Anyway, we go ahead. Back to wise blood. Okay. Back to wise blood. So he's on this island. Yes. Tapped out. Yes. Not even check an email anymore. We've lost his talents. We've lost his talents to the world, but he's happy. Okay. No, he won't be happy. Would Larry day would be happy. No. Okay. Jesse. Yes. Why the in this big city? I don't know what there is. There's like 10 million people in the GT, AJ or whatever. There's like 10 million people in the GT AJ or whatever There's a lot of be right

Where the fuck is the wise blot? Replacements like why do I not know of somebody because they don't exist? But what how can there just be one? That's an excellent question given the large Massive and what perfect store made that one like how come this one is here and I feel like I have my ears to the ground I feel like I'm looking ears to the ground. I feel like I'm looking for wise blood-esque people. You're wise blood-esque and that's why we're having this great conversation, which by the way on the live chat compared to Andy Berry and Matt Galloway, okay? Andy Berry, Matt Galloway flashbacks. This is so awesome. So that's the highest of praise,

I think. But back to Wise Blood. There aren't any. And the reason, this comes back to Toronto, the city of Toronto and the people that it created. Mark is a byproduct of a Toronto culture, a Jewish Toronto culture that doesn't exist anymore, partly because it moved north, north of the city, right? In terms of Richmond Hill, it was very urban, it was very media, it was very cultural. Mark grew up in that culture, I grew up in that culture. Most of the people who grew up in that culture

were boomers. There were only a few of us who were Gen Xers. There were hardly any who were then younger. So again, no, there is only one wise blot, and that's why I think we have to find some way in which on mutual terms, the two of you get back into the groove and start producing that kind of scenario and Maybe part of it like so marks brilliance is he sees the media ecosystem in a way that nobody else is an ecosystem or?

Ecosystem or that like pasta pasta language system or that like pasta pasta language is it echo punks or eco punks look I was gonna say look Mick look Mike look Michael it's it's however you want to pronounce it Jess Jessie jerk it doesn't matter people give me a hard time if I say women instead of women like political correctness okay right and we can ignore political correctness insert you know what silly people who have nothing to have canceled worrying about being canceled. Like that makes no sense to me.

Say the word brewery before you continue with this great thought. Booze? Just say brewery. Booze. Oh. Great Lakes booze. The Dave Thomas episode was so good.

I spent so, anyway. But it was much longer than 45 minutes. It lasted in my head. Well, but that's the point, right? He could just go and go and go and it's a matter of letting him loose. So I did, that's my second Dave Thomas, because I had a Dave Thomas, we did two hours just on our own, and then I wanted to do Dave and Ian Thomas, because somebody literally tweeted at me and said, you should get Ian and Dave Thomas.

I had no idea who Ian was before that episode. That's fast, because he's also an FOTM, and he's very, he was, he's very famous. Okay. so I Saw tweet somebody said I should have Dave and Ian Thomas and literally I just went into my email and sent an email to them I said hey guys you want to come on together and they were all into it So we scheduled this thing we do it and then humble and Fred see that I had Dave Thomas on the show and they're like We want Dave Thomas on our show and I'm like guys you guys your guests come on at 8 15 a.m Eastern I said Dave Thomas lives in the Los Angeles area and that's five fifteen for him. He doesn't want to do

a zoom with you at five fifteen. So then long story short is they said, OK, we'll do it at a different time and then we'll do something they never do, which is they'll record off the record at a different time. So I scheduled late, like a three p.m. Thursday, Dave Thomas, Humble Howard Glassman and Fred Patterson. And they record this thing and it became a 45 minute episode that was dropped as an episode of Humble and Fred. And I don't know what Howard thinks of it. I got to actually ask him, but Fred hated it. So it's like, he said he just found it too long.

He says there's no conversation should be more than like 20, 25 minutes. He said 45 minutes was way too long and he was bored by it. So, so, so so quick no quick tangent are you following shannon chart and club shay shay no are you aware of what club shay shay yeah because uh donovan bailey is a big fan of this uh podcast yes yeah so club shay shay had cat williams on yes two and a half almost three hours 50 million views within six days. He had Mo'Nikon last week, again over 30, and these are three hour conversations. So I'm sorry, he's wrong, Fred's wrong.

I've been telling him he's wrong forever, but he just, he's sort of married to this opinion. Yeah, well it's his personal preference, and that's fine for his personal preference, but the internet says otherwise. You can go on and on and on, and I think that's where to bring it back to wise back to the your ecosystem I know I rudely interrupted you by asking if it's ecosystem so allow me to flip it back at you do you ever think

about your back catalog do you ever think about what you do with the knowledge base that you've collected yeah over the course of 1430 what depends what you mean all that knowledge I've collected, it spills out in future episodes. Like I'm- So it's in you, you have the wet one. Yeah, it's in here. And I do a thing,

because it takes me 10 minutes every morning as I drink my coffee, where I do an on this day thing. And I do that on, I always did it on Twitter, but I've added it to blue. I'm trying to make blue sky happen. It's not going great,

but it's, I literally, when I send the tweet, I copy and paste it into blue sky. So it takes me an extra eight seconds, but I am trying, I do every day. I'm like on this day in 2019, you know, Mike Willner came over. We talked about whatever, or on this day, you know, whatever in 2023, you know, but is it outside of your memory? Could you search it?

Like, is there, that's like, that that is like I literally search my XML file for the date and then that's how I so it's just the XML file. Yeah, I just search the XML file for the date because I have a naming schema for my files. And so today's file will be February. And then the little blurb that you write up, you know, Jesse and I talked about. Yeah, I copy and paste it from whatever I wrote at the time.

And then I change some of the tenses or whatever. And sometimes it's not relevant and I change it. But yeah, basically. So, yeah. And all the files, you and I change it. But yeah, basically, so yeah. And all the files, you have them local or just in the cloud? Both, I keep a copy local and they're in the, on the Ian service server that I co-locate from him. Right on.

Cause that's a lot of stuff you could be using. I know, I know, I know. Shout out to Mohit Rajans who came over and said similar things. I actually am all on I think you're right It's all to begin back to that hole. You talked about you know students and stuff I just got to get my shit together and Make it a priority because once I'm once I buy in and I make it a priority. It's gonna happen I just right now I've got a million things going on

I just haven't had a chance to mean these are the dangers of becoming a media mogul, right? Is that all these shows you gotta produce? Media moguls are rich, Jesse. No, no, media moguls are in debt. Every media mogul, other than those who were born into the right family, media moguls are just, they have a lot of debt, right? That's why hedge funds now own almost all the media, because that debt just got rolled over, rolled over,

rolled over, rolled over, versus what you have back to the ecosystem is social capital. And that social capital is then what's allowing you to get bigger and bigger guests. And it's allowing you to create conversations that build upon each other and then allow for these knowledge experiments, these phenomena like 1430.

But also I'm trying to push you to think about the types of other interconnections that you can make that allow this ecosystem to come alive, right, to start being more visible to people so that it's the stories and the knowledge become more accessible. And I appreciate all this. And again, I was so happy that we could have an in-person conversation,

because I remember our last chat, I just thoroughly enjoyed talking to you and I enjoy your insight and your perspective on things. And I like, I like how you're my thing. So that's why I'm like, you're not a Mark Wise blot, but you are cut from the same cloth, right? Like there's, there's an absolute relation there. And just remind us for the record,

because I don't think I ever fully grasped this, but you and Mark Wise blot have a professional relationship in the past, or is it simply a mutual respect? Yes so he helped start the Academy of the Impossible which was a concept I'm still kicking around in the form of a farm but back then it was like an event space a recording space. How far back are we going here approximately? 2014, 2015 this was on Wallace Avenue and the junction triangle and even before that Mark was doing a newsletter with me we've called Metaviews and Metaviews was one of my brands which I recently changed to

Echo Punks. Yeah which I'm gonna ask you about soon. No one ever understood what Metaviews was but this episode has kind of been a Metaview right because we're trying to take the Metaview of Toronto mic'd. Well we should add you to the FOTM cast because this is sort of the vibe of what we plan to do there, but here let's take a divergence. Let's take a divergence here, take a sip of that water and we'll come back to echo punks. So I'm gonna ask you particularly about one article you wrote recently. We've got the right to choose it There ain't no way we'll lose it

This is our life, this is our song We'll fight the vows and be just like the others Again, I only know this because you're in the not-so-secret FOTM What's App group, but one of your best... This is what you wrote, and I don't think I'm telling tales at a school I think you can talk about it one of your best childhood moments Was twisted sister and iron maiden at Maple Leaf Gardens Oh, and they did this this huge like five minute story And then I was a kid and I told them at the end I want to rock and the whole arena just

I want a rock and the whole arena just erupted and it was those videos You're my age. So yeah, so that video of the dad. He's got the spit coming on my What are you gonna do with your life? Like oh that hit us right hard at the age Now thinking about it and you know Michael Jackson Stole that sentiment or whatever for black or white you know, Michael Jackson stole that sentiment or whatever for black or white. You know, they have a norm from Cheers. Now here's a crazy thought I had the other day. Totally politically incorrect. Okay. Imagine if Michael Jackson wasn't a pedophile. His influence would have been massive, right? Like we forget how large he was at home, much of an impact the pop culture if only I just saw the

the what if Michael Jackson wasn't a pedophile what if OJ Simpson wasn't a murderer right what if Bill Cosby wasn't a rapist think about I would be thinking about he'd be revered right if he wasn't an asshole a rapist oh goodness gracious I was we are the World documentary on Netflix. Because, you know, I like how to see how the sausage is made. And then, you know, Michael's there and he's noodling this or that. And you're like, yeah, this guy was like a fucking musical genius. This guy. Huge, right?

Thriller was like a huge moment in pop culture. Like, and I don't just mean the biggest moment. Yeah, it was massive. And before then, there weren't really rock stars at his life. I don't want to further contribute to the fame of the pedophile. No I don't yeah well you know uh other than that what a genius right? Yes. Fucking right and yeah and uh I... But Dee Snider I saw a great documentary about Twisted Sister and just their origin story and the types of uh gigs that they would play like ultimate live band like phenomenal energy. What are you gonna do with your life? I could run

through a wall right now like serious I'm so fucking hyped up so what do you listen to these days like what do you listen to on the farm? A lot of hip-hop a lot of funk a lot of R&B a lot soul, a lot of podcasts. Podcasts are big and farming. I mean it's remarkable. There's huge audience in farmers for podcasts because you often have your headphones on. But a lot of whatever the algorithm shoots at me. So it tends to be... But what kind of hip hop? Be more specific. There's so many different subgenres. You know, Public Enemy, New York City, Five Burrows, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul. We're brothers from another, from a different mothers.

Currently right now, I'm listening to Mystical off the DJ Ronson album of, I can't even remember the name of the song, but it's in here. We're good in here. That's the Shake Your Ass guy? Yes, yes. It is a phenomenal, phenomenal song. But it's mostly stuff to just keep you moving. It's a lot of physical work, it's a lot of manual work, so you want to just be boom, boom, boom.

I mean, I got to, I mean, we're- Lots of zeppelin, lots of classic rock, classic metal, that kind of era. Yeah, okay. And was Iron Maiden good at Maple Leaf Gardens? They were, but not as good as Twisted Sister. I mean, it was, you know, they had a huge Eddie, right, like prop on stage. So there was more stagecraft from Iron Maiden. Their stagecraft was fantastic. But I came for Twisted Sister and Twisted Sister's energy was absolutely

fantastic. And I was probably like 11 or 12. So I think my dad probably didn't let me stay till the end of the Iron Maiden set. Yeah so it's always interesting I think back at concerts where I was there more for the the opening band or at least the second last band than the actual closing band. It does definitely happen. There's a couple times it was I wanted to see I was a big Stone Temple Pilots fan and a couple times once Red Hot Chili Peppers were the headliner and I used to really like red hot chili pepper but then uh I mother's milk I fucking loved it and then blood sugar sex magic I'm still on but then I for some I don't know for some reason the sound started to bore me like

when I'm listening to it. Well they they always rock with their socks out and that's a vibe you can only sometimes get into you know. Shout out to flee, but then the the other one yeah. It was Lincoln Park was the headliner and they were fine. They were great. They were great. Yeah, they were absolutely great shadow to really funeral home Chester Bennington, but yeah and shadow to really funeral home on the stone temple pilots. And is it wrong that I laugh every time you say what you know the hardest part is to don't say it like if you told me now about, I don't know,

someone, someone very close to you just passed away. Like I gotta catch myself. Like no, not appropriate to shout out Ridley funeral home. This is too raw, too close or whatever. You know, though, I think there's something to it. I didn't break it in. I found out the, the origin of the shout out to really funeral home was, uh, it, I might have the clip here was my buddy Elvis in the backyard who telling me like his dad had just died and that's when I broke it out the first time, but that was my buddy Elvis, right? Like that wasn't just someone I'm meeting for the first time. Yeah, so I felt, you know, we break each other's balls on the the regular here. Let me see if I have. But that would be the challenge, right?

Because our relationship with death is so messed up that to be able to get people to laugh while they're grieving is magical. I am big right now. I, you know, I host a podcast with Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home and I'm really big on like normalizing like let's normalize the talk of death here. Here's the conversation. My sincere condolences. Last time you were in my backyard, I was giving you sincere condolences.

Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. I was because your father had passed away and you were very, is that too fast? So your father had bested. So good. Your dad died. Shout out to the funeral. So again, again, again, my sincere condolences and you were Can you really say some serious condolences? I mean, I mean come on it's been over a year like, you know, that's fantastic I I that'll listen I'll listen to that over again. So that was the first time that was fantastic It just the way you the voice like you in your in your tone. You could hear the doubt you're like, oh

Should I do it? I don't try to pull it back you can hear me I'm trying to pull it back my sincere condolences like yeah maybe that wasn't appropriate your dad just died or whatever here let me ask you about tell us tell the listenership what is echo punks which I'm gonna call eco punks but to each his own yeah what is it and then I'm gonna ask you about a specific article I read with great interest fairly recently. So EcoPunks is partly a rebranding, partly a way to acknowledge that ecosystems run our world that if you want to survive, that if you want to thrive, you got to be able to understand the ecosystem you swim in. You better be a punk. You better have an attitude.

You better, you know, Is that like a do it yourself kind of ethos? 100%, 100%, but it's also a go fuck yourself kind of attitude. Like you kind of have to have a certain amount of I got a bit of that. A backbone, right? Of like standing in the ground. You know, it's kind of a communications agency,

kind of an event agency. It's 100% grift, you know, just trying to get attention, trying to get out there and Echo Punk seems like a little bit more edgy than MetaViews, which seems a little too, you know, formal. No, no, I like Echo Punk, Ecopunk, whichever you go with. Yeah, much cooler. I dig that vibe. Absolutely. Better than MetaViews. Yes. Okay. Good. So the specific and where where on the web do we find this? Echopunks.live is one of them. There's a read.echopunks.live. There's gazette.echopunks.live. There's animals.echopunks.live. This is the age of AI.

You can create as much content as you want. You just have to have an idea for it. Where do you find the time for this outlet, for this part of your psyche, when you're busy on a farm? I can't imagine how many hours a day are spent farming. Quite a few, unfortunately, but AI, AI, my friend. AI is the new word processor. It's a very easy to create. I'm with you, but I feel still,

I just gotta shake this feeling that it's like cheating somehow. Cheating is good. And I say this because rules are for fools and the smart people cheat. Now, cheating in a way that you get away with it, like you don't wanna get caught, and cheating in a way that's ethical

so that you can like sleep at night. But let's come back to this because I know you want to talk about the article. But let's come back to this ethic of cheating or not cheating. The great differentiator back in the day was, I'm smarter than you, I work harder than you, I do my homework, I know how to piece it together, I know how to tie these things together. Robots can't fucking do that. Your algorithm can't do that. This is coming out of my brain. My my BAM is drain here. So so you had the last part right? Right? Yes. What we do in our brains is unique. No machine will ever do that. Okay. But then you're saying all this stuff. This machine's going to do

all this stuff. And you're probably gonna tell me that's like thinking smarter, not harder. And I'm all ears to soak this in. But it does feel like you you are eliminating a differentiator because if any idiot can use AI to do it, then what's the point of being like a smarty pants? Well, but that it improves the advantage for smarty pants. Most people are using chat GBT to write nonsense. But I'm the kind of person like our friend Mark Wiseblot, who like you, for example, I have more ideas than I have time. Agreed. Right?

And one of the phenomenal things about farming is the more physical labor I have, the more ideas I get. Like the more I'm working, the more ideas. Well, this is me on the bike rides, buddy. Like the more I'm working, the more ideas, like constantly. Well this is me on the bike rides, buddy. 100%. Yeah, okay. 100%, right?

So that's where this AI stuff is a game changer for smart people because it allows us to publish our ideas without having to do the legwork, right? This is my point of TMDS, the book publishing house, because it allows you to be churning out your books and everybody else's books just by having conversations, which you're already really good at, better than most people. Thank you very much.

And that is where, to your point about where do you find the time for this stuff? It's not the time anymore. I just have so many ideas. If I don't get them out of my head and get them into the world, that's what's going to kill me. Okay. I'm warming up to this. So we're gonna talk about the specific article

and then we'll do a catch all mop up before we say goodbye. Yes. End on ethics. Then I'm gonna record with Mary Jo Eustace. You got the lasagna. Hey, that Rae Don Chong, Mary Jo Eustace, that was a great episode.

I enjoyed that quite a bit. Especially because they really push back on you, of course, because I assume she's got a Because you produce her podcast so Mary Jo and I do because I'm gonna be with her in I'm one of the bitches for sure, but Raedon Chong whoever I've had twice on the program now I just like how she thinks like she just tells it like it isn't and she she'll tell you what she thinks of pubic hair on women and You know why she goes on natural.

I don't have to prompt for these things. They're always interesting. But Jesse, this is important. Farmer, eco-punk warrior, whether you already work with a trusted financial advisor or currently manage your own investment plans, the advantaged investor provides the engaging wealth management information you value as you pursue your most important goals. So Jesse, you're going to subscribe to this wonderful podcast hosted by FOTM Chris Cooksey, The Advantage Investor. And that way when I'm farming,

I'll be able to think about money too. Oh, the horror. Don't let money ruin your good day over there. Also recycle my electronics dot c a is where you go if you have old electronics cables devices laptops and you need to get rid of these things don't throw them in the garbage the chemicals end up in our landfill go to recycle my electronics dot c a and find out a depot near you that the e the EPRA has credited and it will be properly and safely recycled. And that's what you want to do, buddy. Okay. Eco-punks.

It's about landfill and landfill redirection. Oh, I even, you know what I did? Cause you're coming on and I know now I always, I don't know why I worry about this, but I'm thinking, okay, well, I might want to just have a song on hand and I'm like, okay, Jesse's coming over and this is don't Laugh, but this is the song I couldn't get out of my head He's an FOTM I wish that I had Jessie's girl I wish that I had Jessie's girl Wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, wake up, Jessie, You know I wish that I had Jessie's girl I wish that I had Jessie's girl

Where can I find a woman like that? I love having sex but I'd rather get some head Okay, so Girl Talk used that song in a mashup and I can't hear this now without that But that's my own problem, Jessie This Jessie, by the way, is I.E. You are not I.E. You are just the... I am I.E. in many people's eyes.

Well, they're wrong, right? They misspell it all the time. There's no I in teen. Right. So you're Jesse without the I.E. What's more common? I.E., I think. You think so?

Yeah. Okay. Because otherwise it reads like Jesser, but for it to read like Jesse, you need the I need the I and of course you remember the the great wrestling album song Eat your heart out Rick Springfield. Yeah, I'm with this by a mouth Jimmy Hart the mouth of the south. Yes, I do You know, we talked about what if Michael Jackson wasn't a pedophile or what if OJ wasn't a murderer? Okay What if Hulk Hogan and no rid of Gawker? That one I'm okay with. That one's okay.

It's Vince McMahon, okay? Oh God. There's stuff coming out about him right now. Yeah. Okay, so horrific shit about Vince McMahon. Unbelievable. But he's all over the wrestling album, which I owned in, I think it was 85. I think it was 85.

I think it comes back to 1985. I am a real American. Right. That whole album I loved, and I still will listen to it with nostalgic vibes and enjoy it but Vince McMahon's all over this thing. That's okay, right? What is your thought on this? I personally think I can listen to this amazing wrestling album I have great memories of as

a 10 year old and it doesn't mean I'm condoning the actions of Vince McMahon. I'll be straight with you. There's no way for you to be nostalgic and not in some way implicate yourself in the crimes of the past. So don't worry about it. It's okay. You can remember these things and speak out against sex slavery or whatever the heck he's being accused of. Yeah, some bad shit. But that wrestling album is pure fucking Cindy Lauper, you know, all over that. Yeah. Mona Flamboa or whatever her. an era it was an era well Captain Lou Albano played her dad in her big video girls just want to have fun yes well they all think you

remember Goonies Goonies are good enough for me I'm talking to you because we have the same I'm surprised that Goonies hasn't been redone I keep expecting it to be can they still have an ugly guy? Like, who's that? What was that guy's name? I can't remember. Oh, Fratelli? He was the troll. Fratelli? The Fratellis weren't the ugly guy.

The Fratellis were the ugly guy was like an ogre. Yeah. I love that guy. Anyway, I think we can still make fun of the ugly. Him and Chunk were like good guys. And the best part is Chunk today is not even a chubby guy today. Like 1985 or-

Osampec. Oh. We're like the best part is chunk today is not even a chubby guy today like 1985 Oh It's Josh Brolin that I didn't realize got to start in that movie that kind of blew me away Yeah, Josh Brolin and Mackenzie Aston. I want to say and oh Okay, let's get to this article here before I just you don't have to redo the article I'm just gonna read the opening paragraph and it really captured my attention. This is an Echo Punks article written by Jesse Hirsch. I don't know, a couple months ago or something. In the vibrant tapestry of Toronto's cultural, political and sports landscapes, one voice has emerged as a crucial navigator, Toronto Mike of the Toronto Mike podcast.

Through his prolific publishing schedule and adept interviewing skills, Toronto Mike has become an integral part of not just chronicling, but also shaping the media ecosystem in Toronto. Toronto Mike's podcast, Toronto Mike, serves as a microcosm of Toronto's rich and diverse culture. His interviews cut across various sectors, offering listeners a panoramic view of the city's heartbeat. From stars in the music industry to seasoned political commentators, his guests bring a plethora of perspectives, making the podcast a melting pot of ideas and discussions. Now let me ask you a question. Yeah.

How did that make you feel? I felt amazing. Like I'm reading it again. I can't believe it's about me. Like this is the most, this is like, if someone told me after episode one of Toronto Mike, one day somebody as bright and dialed in as Jesse Hirsch would write those paragraphs about me, it would all be worthwhile. Now, I asked that question on purpose because you didn't write this. This doesn't make you feel any less that chat GPT wrote. OK, so that's good. Let's have it.

So it makes me feel less that chat GPT wrote this. If you didn't. Spend some real time, yes, reviewing it and ensuring that you agreed with the sentiment. More than reviewed it. More than reviewed. I had the intent, I had the psychology behind it. This was all Jesse, right? My friend Dan Spiren who listened to our first episode. FOTM Dan Spiren. My apologies, FOTM Dan Spiren who contacted me after the first episode. He loved it so much. And he inspired this article

because we had this long conversation, right? About the Toronto Mike Universe. That an algorithm wrote. I'm actually, now I'm a little bit sad. Here's my point though. Until I told you that the algorithm was involved, I was clueless. You were ecstatic.

I was leading it up because that was all point, right? Was I knew I was gonna disclose it. But this is where I get into the ethics. Should we be disclosing the use of AI? And I say no. Like, do we have a little chiron when people are on TV? The host is wearing makeup and had Botox two weeks ago. No, we don't.

They look great. We love that they look great. That's the fantasy. You want to know what I think? I think it's now tarnished knowing that you, uh, you had like a piece of AI write this thing. Yes. It's different than, cause I, I have a blog. Yes. I'm thinking about it, Jesse. I'm thinking about it, but like I, I let's say it's a Saturday morning and there's no hockey for another

couple of hours for the kid or something. And I'm, I put my fingers on the keyboard and I'm like what am I thinking about today and I go write something like this happens to me all the time I've been writing a blog since 2002 it's coming out of my head it's coming through my fingers like this is something I'm writing you know U of T English major Mike is writing this thing slow down slow down to me it's different let's do this slow down let's do this if we're making the sausage we have to understand all the ingredients going in. So you thought about it in your head. You wiggled your fingers. Yes. So that's what I did. Did you? I wiggled my fingers. What did you think? What did you give? You just said to, I don't know, this we'll call it chat GPT. Like you say, we'll do the Kleenex thing. But I'm just saying if I can't see your screen and you're wiggling your fingers,

I don't know what you're doing with your fingers. You could be doing or you could be doing Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, right? The difference in terms of what those fingers are wiggling, you would agree with me, has to do with what's in your head. But it's such a- Because it's your head that's wiggling your fingers. Right. And it's the fingers that are making this whatever comes up on the screen. So if that process is the same and the output is the same, what's the difference? Well, but is the output the same, right? Because the algorithm spits out this prose.

Emotionally, it worked, didn't it? It's well written. Like it's well written. Yes. So of course, I'm the target. This sentiment, I love the sentiment because it's about fucking me. My ego gets stroked in this thing, right? But now that I hear you, you know, you disclose that. And I did have a suspicion that AI might've written this. Okay. Right.

Because just the way it's like- Because it's flowery. Yeah, the plethora of perspectives. And in my defense, this was in the early days of my AI experiments. So I was like your guinea pig. You were my guinea pig. You were my guinea pig. You were.

Let me read more of this. The primary reason for choosing you as a mark was the ecosystem line. I wanted to write something about ecosystems and I'd been thinking about you within this context of mapping ecosystems. Because that's the argument, right? Is that you are engaging in mapping ecosystems, and then I got the AI to articulate my argument in a way that I probably would not have, because I'm a little like Larry David. I have trouble with people, versus the AI is much more friendly and it produced a much more flattering version. What sets Toronto Mike apart is his interviewing prowess,

his thoughtful, empathetic, and often incisive interviewing style, not only elicits in-depth responses from his guests, but also weaves together the various threads of Toronto's media ecosystem. See, that's beautiful. Yes. And the robot wrote that shit.

The AI would never have written that shit. How would the AI think of using the word incisive? No one would think about using the word incisive and how would the AI so this is this is an excellent example of why I did This experiment because when people talk about AI they get it wrong They think it's a god they think it's this magical thinking machine when it's not. It's stupid. It's dumb. It is a word processor. When I first used WordPerfect, I don't know what your first word word perfect. Did you think it was alive?

No. Right. But I thought, oh, my God, I can do a newsletter. OK, we did WordPerfect in high school. We were taught WordPerfect. But prior to that, I had actually used something called Paperclip. Yes. I'm going to Google Paperclip later,

because I absolutely used Paperclip. You can make big signs in Paperclip with like dot matrix printers. So Paperclip was the first ever in my life. And then I literally took like a business class on Word Perfect. It's funny because then Word showed up. But Word Perfect, so I knew all the commands for WordPerfect by heart. Sorry go ahead. Well I'm just saying if someone wants me to go straight their book

I'm happy to do it for a third of the price in a quarter of the time and then they'll be like how did you do that and I go chat GPT but they'll be like but it reads just like me and it sounds like my book and it's like because it's a word processor. It's just a word processor that you have to have a lot of intellect to use effectively. And that's where again, it's input in and put out. So you have to know what you want to get out of it. And I just happen to get something out of it that made you feel good.

And hence why I suggest, who does it matter where it came from? I appreciate your argument. I need to noodle this one for a bit because I'm not so I'm not sure I'm sold yet, but I'm going to your conclusion. Toronto Mike's role in shaping perceptions. Toronto Mike's work is a testament to the power of media in shaping public perception and understanding of a city's identity. Through his podcast, he has created a space

where the diverse voices of Toronto can be heard, understood and appreciated. In doing so, he has become not just a chronicler of Toronto stories, but also a key player in its evolving media landscape. I need to thank a fucking robot for this, okay? Not Jesse fucking Hirsch. Okay. The point is if you went to the robot and you asked it to produce this,

it could not. Right? Well you have to feed it something. Right? So can you tell us what you give it? Yeah. It's not an it. It's a word processor. Okay. But what do you feed into this word processor that hasn't spit out this prose? Like, so do you remember English high school, the sandwich, like the essay when they taught us like the sandwich, the topic sentence, the supporting, including. Yeah, except we had it like as a pyramid and like it was a upside down pyramid and then a pyramid, but yes. Yeah, so it's like that. So here's my argument. Here's my supporting arguments, here is the context in which this takes place, here is the conclusion.

So you're basically, imagine to use Scott Metcalfe as an example, imagine you have a newsroom of reporters, you go in, you say, the Jays are playing tonight, I want you to go and report on the game and tell me how the manager's decision about benching so and so on the third inning changed the flow. So he assigns it, the reporter writes it, and then he makes a few adjustments before it goes to air. Same scenario. You put it in. So let me bring us back

to our original example. You record an episode with Kathleen Wynn. You then take that episode at the end, you feed it into the machine, the machine creates a transcript, it creates a summary, right? You then say, okay, I don't want you to highlight this, but I felt this conversation in the end, it should go up front because it's really interesting, okay? It then edits the transcript into a booklet

with those subjects. So who produced that? Was it the computer or was it Mike and Kathleen? Or was it Mike guiding Kathleen? And then this is an ethical question we haven't resolved. It's an interesting conversation. And I think you're such a genius that I feel you wrote this just for this moment, right?

Like this was the idea. Not intentionally, no, but it worked out that way. Because you knew you're a smart guy, Jesse. You're like, how do I get Mike's attention? I know. I'll write this piece about how amazing he is. And that'll really, like he'll really pay attention to that. So of course I did. I read this and I'm like, oh fuck, I love this piece that Jesse wrote and Ecopunks. And then eventually, you know, you'll be in town because your mom will turn 75, whatever's going on.

You're going to be here. A dog will bite you. You're here. Thank you. Poor dog. That dog's no longer with us. Okay. Shout out to Ridley funeral home, but we're here.

And then I'm going to, of course, bring up the article and then we're going to have this very interesting conversation about ethics because I haven't, I'm not yet on board with letting the, I know you're saying it's like a word processor. I don't think'm not yet on board with letting the I know you're saying it's like a word processor I don't think it's like a word processor I think it is more intrusive than that like also because it is it's it's thinking like so it doesn't have it's it's it's not just spitting out the words that you your fingers dance on the keyboard and put words into it it this prose this alliteration this thing that I'm coming from oh yeah but I gotta ask you what do you mean by thought okay well this is

where I'm at a disadvantage because I don't know what you put like I don't know what you stuck into the sausage word making machine like words you put words in there and and words came back out and different words came out and you know what you know, it's like Incisive Right. It would never have used the word incisive. I used the word incisive Right the same way that it wouldn't have done the diversity beat Had I not put that in there because of the political right and the industrial and like you do achieve a

socio-ethnographic diversity when it comes to the different guests and stories that you share I try I try so here Let me put it this way because we have five minutes left here Jesse and I do but I'm pushing back on your point of suggesting It thinks but what do you mean by thought? What is a thought? Okay, instead of answering that very precise question. I will make this statement. I Liked this article better when I thought it came from your heart and mind. It did come from my heart and mind and it came through my fingers. When I learned that I just had the computer do more work. So the sentiment comes from you and then

AI produces this specific prose. Yes. I'm just telling you straight up, I liked it better before I knew that there was a layer of AI involved in producing this story That's all I'm saying. I know and that's the point of the experiment but to go to your point about getting your attention I didn't have to go to those lengths That was an interesting scenario Master Jesse you son of a bitch, but it would have been easier for me not to do that Although I think this makes for an interesting discussion When do you return to the farm? First thing tomorrow morning I would today but Friday nights a terrible time to drive back, right? Right? Okay, and

Is there anything else on your mind like I feel like I dominated this whole chat But it was I really do like talking to you and I do want you to return like every time you're in Toronto with a 90 minutes to spare I would like to get you in the basement to chat because I I you know, I don't think you need AI I know it's saving you time But you I like the words that come out of your mouth and I like how your brain works and you're not quite wise plot But you're the closest thing we have right now but let's let's let's end on that question because you know, I would like to pray into my own Insecurities real talk real

talk I'm not convinced if I had written that piece it would have had the same effect like it would have had the same effect on you you would have read it you would have taken it seriously you're an authentic individual but I'm not certain that most of my ideas are gonna get out there on their own. And I say this because people's attention spans, people's interests, they're just not what they're used to be. So just as some people stuck with a typewriter when everyone went on to word processors and they're like, this is good enough for me,

thank you very much. I think there's an advantage with going with the digital tools. And in that sense, I'm rather insecure and thinking that, you know, that stuff wouldn't be effective without the added steroids that these tools. It does sound like insecurity. You lack the confidence that you could do. It's like Dumbo with the feather. Okay. You can fly without the fucking feather, but you don't know that yet.

You think so without AI, I would like to, I would like to see what you would have written the same sentiment. What would Jesse Hirsch have written about me on eco punks without the use of Chad GPT? Well, I wouldn't have. That's the problem. I wouldn't have had the time. I'm too busy kicking shit. I hear you. I hear you.

But to bring it back to wise plot. Yeah, of course. Well, it's all about fucking wise plan. Let's go. The media industry is a con. It always has been Right there were golden eras where you know there if you were in the right place at the right time You got to be part of sports radio, right?

But fundamentally it's not a merit-based system and we say this because there's a lot of people with a lot of talent who've been Sidelined because that's how the system works lot of talent who have been sidelined because that's how the system works. So that's why I say cheat. The rules are for fools. You got to do whatever you can and just get by. And I think that's what I was like about Mark is that he's got a kind of critical thinking that reminds us of that. So we do have to talk about what we what we got to do to get him back on the show. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. Right, Jesse? That's the rule.

I love this, man. I'm digging this so much. I'm thinking, I don't know which one of Cam or Tyler I should cut from the FOTM chat and replace with you because I'll have some tough decisions to make. But this was fantastic. Although if you can accommodate more, just have me on the remote and that way you can silence me when I get to. I can just mute that channel.

I can mute your mic anyways. I have the power. I'm loud enough to get picked up on yours. And that brings us to the end of our 1,430 second episode. Everybody go back to 1430. if you have any memories at all, any fond memories at all of the fan 1430. Now the fan 590 go check that out. It's Jesse approved, right Jesse? Absolutely.

Again, where, where could we read this wonderful AI assisted prose on Eco punks and where equal punks dot live animals dot Eco punks dot live is me giving AI voices to animals, which is a phenomenal experience unto itself, but I'm on blue sky. Okay. I am too. What is your handle on blue sky? I think it's Jesse Hirsch something like that and Hirsch has no C in it.

Everybody no see no I I learned that Hirsch no I in Jesse, but there's an eye in Hirsch has no C in it everybody. No C, no I. I learned that. Hirsch, no I in Jesse. But there's an I in Hirsch everybody. I just want to make sure we're clear here. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Subscribe to their new podcast Between Two Fermenters. Episode 2 we're recording in next week and episode one was fantastic. Dropped on the 37th anniversary of the opening of Great Lakes Brewery. Palma Pasta, they don't have a podcast but they're gonna feed us all at TMLX 15 on June 27. So come out to that event and go to palmapasta.com. Don't

leave without your lasagna, Jesse. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Raymond James Canada, they've got the Advantage Investor podcast. And Ridley Funeral Home, Brad's podcast is called Life's Undertaking. And it's great. See you all next week. I don't know who my next guest is, so I gonna go to my Google calendar and tell you all oh The next Toronto mic episode is toast Rob Bruce and Bob Willett in the basement. This is Tuesday morning We'll be at live dot Toronto mic comm at 10 a.m. And I'll find out from Bob what happened He got the tap on the shoulder from his radio overlords at chorus and we need to find out what's going on because that's bullshit. See you all then! And they're broken in stocks, the class struggle explodes

And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming out rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine. It won't go away, because everything is.