Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jim Shedden Kicks Out the Jams: Toronto Mike'd #1386

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

In this 1386th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike catches up with Jim Shedden while they play and discuss his ten favourite songs of all-time. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1386 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. The Advantaged Investor Podcast from Raymond James Canada.

Valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. Season 5 of Yes, We Are Open. An award-winning podcast from Moneris. Hosted by FOTM Al Grego. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pill pillars of the community since 1921. Today, returning to kick out the jams is Jim Shedden. Welcome back, Jim. Thank you. Happy to be here. Thank you.

Happy to be here. You were first here in January, 2023. That was episode 1,184. And what I wrote at the time was Mike chats with Jim Shedden about his life of zines, mixtapes and Toronto counterculture. I love that episode. I had a great time and God,

there's so much more to say. Well, hey, let's hold all those things that we have to say and we'll catch up between the jams. But I have but one question here for you, Jim. Are you ready to kick out the jams? I am definitely ready to kick out the jams. My baby I need ya, oh girl I want ya, hold on, I'm coming for ya, hold on, need to get ya

I rise with the sun and start my existence With dreams of the day When we'll move away far from the hard times More time's been given and move on uptown To a better way of living She's not a beauty and she don't wear fine clothes Her heart so cold is all I'm living for Hold on One day may come Oh, you know I need ya

One day may come, my love I want ya One day may come Hold on, I'm coming it, Jim. Tell me about your first jam. Well, I guess I have at least two sides to my music love. And one side is more adventurous, and we're going to get to some of that. But I've just always found pure joy in the perfect three-minute pop song.

And so last time we talked a little bit about Johnny Cash and my parents' record collection. So this is from one of the first about Johnny Cash and my mother, my parents' record collection. So the, this is from one of the first records that me and my sisters owned outside of the parental, uh, you know, envelope.

And, um, so it was all about the Partridge family and the Osmonds and Jacksons and Bobby Sherman. And, um, that, you know,

imprinted on me what music, what I still seem to, I'm still attracted to. My only link to the Partridge family is this. You ready? David Cassidy bought a racing horse. He was big in the horse racing circuit. And David Cassidy was asking FOTM Perry Lefkoe what he should name his horse.

And Perry, who's good friends with FOTM Hall of Famer Peter Gross, told David Cassidy he should name his horse Peter the Gross. And he did. Oh, my God. You know, isn't that wild? That's wild. So David Cassidy owned a horse called Peter the Gross, and he did. Oh my God. You know, isn't that wild? That's wild. So David Cassidy owned a horse called Peter the Gross and absolutely suggested by an FOTM and named after an FOTM Hall of Famer.

And one day Perry's brother, Elliot, will be a Hall of Famer. Okay, so I went to the premiere of Subversives, which is a new Lois of the Low documentary directed by Simon Head. And I met Elliot Lefkoe at the premiere because he played a big role in the reuniting of Lois de the Lowe in like 2001 or something like that. Anyway, Elliot and I had a great chat. He confirmed that when he's in LA, he remembers Toronto by listening to Toronto Mic'd. confirmed that when he's in LA, he remembers Toronto by listening to Toronto Mike. And maybe one day, but

he's still elusive. Elliot Lefkoe. Cool. Well, he's very supportive of me when I was young and dumb. Would you please tell us who else is in the room with us?

Lisa Santonato. Lisa is an old friend and colleague and works with me and Alan Zweig and Richard Campbell as the technical producer on our podcast, 1,000 Songs. We're at episode nine. Okay, so you're going to do 1,000 episodes?

Maybe. Because that's crazy. No one does 1,000 episodes. Nobody does. All right, Lisa, your one does a thousand episodes. Nobody does. Alright, Lisa, your mic is open there. Yes, hi. It was quite the trek for you to get here, right? You came from a long way. Puslitch, Ontario.

Moved out there last year from Toronto. Toronto's my hometown, though. Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks. What neighborhood in Toronto are you from originally? Originally? Good question. Originally... If that's too tough a question, let me know. What neighborhood in Toronto are you from originally? Originally. Oh, good question. Originally. If that's too tough a question, let me know.

Weston. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. It's like a little village in a city. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when you're there, you're like, oh, am I still in Toronto? It's like you're in the village of Weston.

It's amazing. But I was actually in the suburbs of Weston, if you can believe that. It's amazing. But I was actually in the suburbs of Weston, if you can believe that. An old 1950s suburb on the Humber River, right at the intersection of Weston and Shepherd, where a lot of vehicles just tend to like cross over right into that school property that's there. Yeah, I grew up there. And then why did you leave the city?

You said, is this near Guelph? Whereabouts is this? It's outside of Guelph, yeah. Why did you leave the city? Oh, all the tough questions right off the bat here. Well, you know, Lisa, this is your episode. I tricked Jim into thinking this was Jan's. Oh, you know, after COVID, so many things changed. Yeah.

My mom really asked me to move out there with her. She had moved to a retirement home and was really unhappy with it. And just life changes. Well, listen, this all sounds very honorable. And are you happy out there? It's lovely. All I can say is it's wonderful being out in the country. When I was really young, I lived in Arthur, Ontario on a farm. And I'm surrounded by cornfields now. And this morning, when I woke up, there were about a dozen blue jays in the lilac tree outside.

Oh, was Otani one of those blue jays? No. I need to break that news. So, Lisa, you're moving to the country. You're going to eat a lot of peaches. Or corn. Or corn. Okay.

All right, Lisa. So, I'm glad you're here to witness the magic here. I do, I guess, do I need to, I need to apologize that I sound I think my voice is bad right now like I did record earlier today as mine right now okay let's have a little contest here I think my voice is worse but anyways I'm well on my way to recovery from this little congestion thing I have and I am very much looking forward to TMLx 14 which is on saturday jim is there any chance you can make an appearance at tmlx 14 so speaking of parents my challenge is every saturday i visit my father who's not that well and um i'm debating because i'm not around at christmas and uh i've never

been to one of your gatherings and i really want to go but it's exactly the time and day that i it's a challenge but uh well that's a good excuse jim it's not but there's no excuse because i want to be there but listen if you could make it all happen so it's noon to 3 p.m i just got a note from uh mike richards who's going to drop, and he's going to update us on the big announcement he made recently on Toronto Mike. Stephen Brunt says he's going to be there. Tom Wilson says he's going to be there. If you showed up, that would be just a delight. But everybody is invited.

There will be Great Lakes beer, and there will be Palma pasta, of course, because we're at Palma's Kitchen in Mississauga. Mm-hmm. So, and Lisa's Italian and grew up with have you ever had she knows her lasagna i know my pasta um i am only half italian i always have to remind people of that because with the italian last name it's pretty definitive um yes pasta what is palma pasta i'm not familiar with well, they're in Mississauga in Oakville, and their headquarters is Palma's Kitchen, which is on Seminic Court,

which is near Mavis and Burnhamthorpe, and that's where we're all going to collect on Saturday. So if you, Lisa, wanted to drive to Mississauga for this, you get to try some Palma Pasta. I'd love to. That soundsma pasta. I'd love to. That sounds fantastic. And I'd love to kick out another jam with you, Jim. You ready?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Worlds are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup. They slither wildly as they slip away across the universe. Possessing and caressing me Shakuru De Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world Nothing's gonna change my world

Images of broken light Which dance before me like a night Those four mop tops from England. The Beatles. They're going to be big. I mean, the Beatles, I feel like they were my favorite band before I ever heard them. We grew up with one single, She Loves You. And I'm pretty sure that I thought the Monkees and the Beatles were the same band. And then, you know, over the years, I probably heard, you know, half a dozen or maybe more Beatles songs.

And then one year for Christmas, I got Double Blue, you know, which has been reissued as well as Double Red. And it was like, you know, you know and it was like you know you know it was incredible and this was i'd never heard this song before i got that collection and uh it's such a um it's such a magical song and it's you know it's full of crazy uh resentments you know john lennon never liked it and he and paul and phil specter and everyone just kept fucking around with it. And there's all these different versions because people couldn't settle on it. And Lennon plays, and this is my way of sneaking Bowie into this list because I only had 10. So I was trying to double up and triple up.

But I don't like the Bowie version. But John Lennon, in I think an act of resentment, said it's way better than the Beatles version. But it's not. But I love Bowie, I love the Beatles, I love this song, I love Lennon. And I think, you know, it's near the end of the Beatles, but they're producing music that no one could touch. It was just incredible. What a joy, what a treat to be present at that time.

I can't imagine, like I want to imagine what it was like for you to just open that and hear it for the very first time at that age. Yeah, I don't even remember what age that was, but it was like sort of that moment before I got into punk and new wave and then kind of put the Beatles aside just for a few years. And then after that, they've kind of got me through. Well,

I must ask Jim, what did you think of the new Beatles song? I like it. I mean, it's not my favorite Beatles song. I have zero problem with, with what, you know,

with the whole process. I think it's just what's in front of us now, the opportunity to do that, experiment. And I love that Paul and Ringo are doing stuff together. I heard them recently on Dolly Parton's new album, Rockstar. They both play on Let It Be with her. So I thought that was heartwarming. Could you imagine if this new song was your

favorite Beatles song? Like that would be the mind blow. It's like after that catalog, they dropped their greatest song, you know, that would be wild. And I like it too. Like I like the song. I thought they did a good job

and I'm okay with that process too. That is John Lennon's voice and there is George Harrison on guitar from the 90s. And I dug it. What did you think, Lisa, of the new Beatles song? Well, I confess I have not yet heard it.

I'm really looking forward to it but uh it's just well that's what you're gonna do tonight go to youtube and dig us in okay i just popped onto the live stream live.torontomic.com and rob pruse do you know the name rob pruse i do hello rob he says jim starting with a Partridge family song. He's my jam. So he goes, that was his first album too when he was five. Yeah, I think Rob and I are about the same age. So it was, and it might've been,

it was probably my older sister's album. We had that, we had this single, I Think I Love You maybe before that. And then we had, you know, I think the first four albums. And there's good songs on all of those albums. And it starts to peter out after that. Cambrio chimes in to say, Hi Mike! So hello to you Cambrio and

YYZ Gord says, just popping on between meetings. Hey folks and Gord, I will see you on Saturday at TMLX 14. After that first jam, Jim, you talked about the podcast. I got a few questions about that, but I just want you to know, because I know he's listening.

I think Alan Zweig is a cool cat. Like, I really dig this guy. Alan's great. And it was really the podcast that brought us together because we were both involved in the independent film scene. And I think we just thought we were kind of like low level enemies. And then it wasn't the podcast actually. Sorry. The podcast is actually revisiting a Facebook group that I did called A Thousand Songs that I started doing when Facebook was new and I was, uh, getting clean and sober. And I kind of used it as a, as a way to, you know, reconnect to, you know, things I loved besides booze and drugs. And, um, that's when we reconnected and we reconnected then too. And it went for seven years. And then what ended up happening was there was a lot of people who

got involved in that discussion over the years, but Alan and Rick were the, were the regulars. And in fact, I think they were more prolific than me in their actual contributions, but I, for the most part, led the, you know, would throw out the jam, as you would call it. And we're not going to do a thousand episodes because when I look back on what I posted,

I think, I don't want to go back to like half of those songs. But do you have like a document, a living, breathing document with all 100 songs in it? A thousand. Sorry. Yeah.

Do you mean like the thousand songs? There's a database. Is there a database somewhere where this is already, you've already pre-planned or are you, you know, there's a Google doc, but Facebook fucked it up. So the links don't always work. And in

theory, you can search it on Facebook, but since they don't seem to like have engineers that made it meta, like it's like, it's a total mess. Yeah, they don't care about that. Yeah, for sure. So the ideal would be I think to make like an actual database of the songs that was offline, which maybe maybe I'll do that one day.

But in the meantime, there's other things that have to be done. Okay, and I will tell you that Alan and his brother Michael are actually in the Toronto Mic recording schedule for January 2024. So there'll be a return of Alan. And what I like about him is he's, you know, he's just the perfect, like perfect amount of like cranky. Like he's just kind of got that edge to him which makes him very, very interesting

and he's a wise chap and I just dig the cut of his jib, so to speak. Oh my God, that's a perfect, I know that Alan at one point was thinking about doing like a one-man show and that's the perfect title for it. The perfect amount of cranky. Yeah. It's a very Canadian one. Because you don't want too much cranky, right? Because that's just perfect title for it. The perfect amount of cranky.

It's a very Canadian one. Because you don't want too much cranky, right? Because that's just like, oh, I don't have time for this negativity or whatever. But he's kind of found the balance, I think. It's cranky with charm. Yes. Balanced. Absolutely.

He's cranky with charm. Curmudgeon of necessary, but not necessarily curmudgeon. That is the most Canadian sentence I've ever heard right there. Okay, I really enjoyed that Beatles song too. It kind of reminds me of the Elwy Yost, was it Saturday Night at the Movies theme or whatever,

but I know that song was inspired by a Beach Boys song, as I recall, which I will dig up the name of shortly. But okay, let's get to this third jam. Let's do it. Oh, I can't take another heartache Though you say you're my friend I'm at my wit's end You say your love is bona fide But that don't coincide

With the things that you do And when I ask you to be nice You say you gotta be cruel to be kind in the right measure. Cruel to be kind, it's a very good sign. Cruel to be kind means that I love you, baby. You gotta be cruel to be kind. Gotta be cruel to be kind Cruel to be kind. I'm so happy.

Can I jump in and say something here? Sure. You know, one of the greatest pleasures for me in doing the podcast with you, Jim, is just being introduced or reminded of so many wonderful songs. And many of them are so upbeat and cheerful. Like this one, I haven't heard in ages. And I practically forgot it exists.

But it's just such a lovely song. I mean, everything about it is great. But Niccolo just totally hit it here. Like it's so crisp and clean and, yeah, upbeat, as you said. And there's a couple of things about it. In 1979, I must have heard it when it came out on CFNY. This is like a real, I mean, you know, I'm in grade 10 or 11. Things are just fucking happening then, you know you know like it's like my life is changing

there's so much that's just there and it just feels like we're on to something we're on to something new here folks and um as much as i embrace punk and the punk ethos i was really more drawn to two strands i think of new wave as well as older music. And one was Nick Lowe and Nick Lowe produced, you know, it was really Elvis Costello seeing Nick Lowe's name on those Elvis Costello albums. That's why I was interested in this album, Labor of Lust. And then it was because of the Costello albums first, as well as many other things that he produced. And that was one line.

And then the other was the Brian Eno line. And I think I was already interested in producers. Like, I think I knew, I was aware that George Martin was a key player in the Beatles story. But it was in the New Wave years, I was highly aware of the influence of the producer. And that's still, I follow, I've listened to a lot of hip hop and metal because Rick Rubin's name is on it. So it's helped open my mind up. And of course, Nick Lowe wrote What's So Funny About Peace, Love and Understanding.

He did. Such a great song. So many great versions. This is actually not the original version of this song. This version by Brinsley Schwarz. He was in that band and he co-wrote this with Ian Gomm, who was also in the band. And it's a little more R&B. And I like it just fine. But this is just, you know, perfection. But this is just, you know, perfection. I had no idea. Okay, amazing. And how difficult was it for you, Jim,

to come up with the 10 songs here? Like if you have the sea of a thousand songs, how the heck do you prune that down to 10? Well, if you could ask my wife and daughter, they'd probably say it was very difficult because I couldn't stop talking about it. And I kept, you know, I just kept throwing things overboard and going, I can live with that.

You know, I can live with,. You know, I can live with. But a thousand songs is not in order. There's no hierarchy. And it's not definitive. It's just, it's meant to suggest that there's a shitload of great songs. And here's a thousand. And there could be another thousand and another thousand. And so the ten, I was really trying to represent some kind of um actual

emotional memory you know like i i really um and they're different memories and they're many of them are connected to people you know the partridge family is connect you know the connection with my sisters in a way and uh um the beatles is really me the beatles are kind of weird in that a lot of beatles songs felt to me like i already knew them when i heard them um uh maybe not across the universe but when i first heard i don't know good day sunshine or something i felt like i already knew the song you know which is weird but. Isn't it wild what that band managed to compress into like a decade of output? I just think it's wild.

And recorded it, like almost not even a decade. And they're just, you know, again, my daughter's tired of hearing it. She's 25, almost 26 now. And occasionally I'm like, oh, you know, when Paul was 26, he'd... Unbelievable. Okay, now I'm going to play a song by an artist I saw for the first time this past summer. Here we go.

Take me now, baby, here as I am Pull me close, try and understand Desire is hunger, is the fire I breathe Love is a banquet on which we feed Come on now, try and understand the way I feel when I'm in your head. Take my hand from under cover. It can't hurt you now. It can't hurt you now. It can't hurt you now.

Because the night belongs to lovers. Digging it. Well, it was a bunch of things to be said here, but it was partly a way of sneaking Springsteen in. How else could I? And it's really a collaboration which happened, I think, when... What was it now? Jimmy Iovine or whatever was working with both of them and said, you know, Springsteen had this unfinished song that he would perform

and just kind of mumble, you know. And he said, look, can we just give it to Patty? She needs a hit. She deserves a hit. And Springsteen said, yeah, you know, whatever. And it was her only hit. And a number of years ago, I took my daughter to the show at the C&E at the Queen Elizabeth Theater, and Patty said, I'm going to play my only hit. And my daughter's like, that can't be your only hit, because she grew up listening to all the Patty all the time. Right.

It was really, Patty was such an inspiration for me because she was a poet. And, you know, I had her books and I still, and she's a serious poet. And I, you know, I follow her on Substack and she does great work and she's a great photographer. And she's connected to all these people. She opened all these doors for me, you know, to other writers. for me, you know, to other writers. And, you know, the first photographer I ever cared about, you know, was Robert Mapplethorpe because, you know, he did her covers. Like it just, all these, you know, I'm always interested in the breadcrumbs that, you know, the popular musicians led. And I knew about her several years before I heard her. I read about her in Cream magazine and stuff, and

she looked cool. I wanted to know about Patti Smith, but it wasn't really possible if you didn't, you know, growing up in the suburbs, you know, just, it wasn't possible before, you know, I don't know what. And I guess we were at the same show. Did you see her open for the National? That's correct.

Yeah. I went there to see her. My niece was there to see the National my daughter came with me Patty was 77 and just fuck that was incredible why was she opening for the National I love the National but I feel like it should be

I'm guessing the band chose her like yeah respected the shit out of her craft and wanted to give her the showcase I think the spotlight there it was a great show Yeah, respected the shit out of her craft and wanted to give her the showcase, I think, the spotlight there. It was a great show, yeah. And again, one of the great Patti Smith songs, of course,

is the cover of them, Gloria. Her version of Gloria is tremendous. It's brilliant. Yeah, it's like, I think it's, I don't want to call it definitive, but that I just take it to be the version that I hear them do it. I'm reminded, oh yeah, right, they did a great version. And then The Doors, you know, of course,

did a great version that was released, you know, later. But yeah, hers is just amazing. The whole Horses album is incredible. And that's one of the many kind of songs that Bruce Springsteen would give away, right? This was a thing Springsteen would do. He would kind of give his songs to other artists. Yeah, he did that with Southside Johnny

and the Osbury Jukes. And those are songs too, like this one. This song and Talk to Me, for example, are songs I also feel like, oh, I know this song, which. And for example, our songs, I also feel like, oh, I know this song, which I clearly didn't when I first heard them. And yeah, so. And I mean, he did record Blinded by the Light,

but it wasn't a hit for Springsteen. But my understanding is Ivine, somebody said to him, like, we need a hit or something. And he wrote, that's why he wrote Blinded by the Light for like the first Springsteen album, I think. And then it didn't, wasn't a hit, but it did become a hit for

Manfred Mann and yeah, it went to number one. Manfred Mann's Earth Band. That's right. That's right. Yeah, which is where I first heard it and love it, but I, you know, I love Springsteen's version as well. Yeah, so, so, yep.

So I'm glad I was able to get both of them compressed into this song. But how does 10,000 Maniacs enter the fold? You know, when I wrote about this in a thousand songs, I was like kind of dismissive. I was like, oh, it's a nice version and all that, but I really like it now. I think they add another element to it. Like I think they bring her phrasing into it

and then they just go somewhere else with it that has made it all so timeless. Okay. Well, we'll find out. And again, now, if somebody listening now is like, I got to subscribe to this Jim Shedden podcast, what is the exact name of the podcast? 1,000 Songs?

1,000 Songs Podcast. Okay. 1,000 Songs Podcast. And how, Jim, how do you get somebody like Alisa to help you out? Like, you've got a whole team going on there. That, you know, blows me away. That's wild. We just, I don't know we've just it's a trick question anyways okay this next song and lisa uh glad you're part of

that team there and uh how many episodes deep are you jim was uh looking for someone and uh and i volunteered that's essentially what it comes down to but jim and i have collaborated on a few little things here and there over the years i think i posted something on facebook just saying help you know and um and she responded well i do a lot of video and editing and audio and love music i used to play the piano for a long time and I yeah, it's just one of my passions is music so I was happy to jump on board and anytime I get to work with Jim

it's always a real joy. How often do new episodes drop? Well, we have been aiming for monthly. Because you know, a thousand months is a long time. I just did some math in my head.

Well, this is the thing. As we say that we will incorporate a thousand songs by addressing many songs in one podcast. One podcast might have many songs referred to in it. Oh, okay. It's not going to be necessarily a thousand podcasts. I throw out one that I wrote about. That's how it starts.

And then we'll, and then one of the other, uh, regular guests, Alan or Rick, we'll throw in a song. It doesn't have to be from the list. Okay.

And then, and then we have a special guest and you can be, we would love you to be a special guest one day. We throw another song into the mix so we're doing we're recording one on the 17th um and my sister is the guest and so we have a range of people who are you know we've had kurt swinghammer and we had uh nick uh nick white nick smash uh we had dave howard um rick mcginnis um and but the the goal is to have everyday people Nick White, Nick Smash. We had Dave Howard, Rick McGinnis. But the goal is to have everyday people who are not in any professional way

connected to the music. Okay, that would eliminate a name I was going to ask you about. And I was going to ask you if Stephen Page would be on that list. For sure. The trick with Stephen, I mean, it's meant to be a mix

but when we interview people we want them to you know come from the perspective of their you know as music lover as opposed to being expert in any way um so yeah i'd love to have um i've been talking to him about you know my daughter and i do this series called tavern of Song and I'm wearing a t-shirt from it. And it's like a showcase. Next show, January 6th, Transat Club. Anyways, so we've been talking to Stephen about, you know,

people play three songs each and so I'm hoping that he will join us one day when he's in Toronto. Amazing. So I do want to make sure, Jim, you know, and now Lisa, you know, and that everyone knows that yesterday I had a chat with a gentleman named Mark Nathan.

That was great. Okay, you've heard it. Okay, good. Because there's a lot of fascinating Barenaked Ladies talk in there. And he's a very close friend of Stephen Page. And he takes the credit for introducing the Barenaked Ladies to Seymour Stein,

which is an amazing little wrinkle in that story. I think it sounds true. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure it would be true because he knows that I'll be able to talk to people like Stephen Page and that's complete bullshit. No, so I think it's true. But the Mark Nathan episode also has uh i always call them con can can con content at least with can con no see how tricky that is

con can content and con can is with k's and i now have uh barry harris from can con booked to come on toronto mic for a very deep dive into that band oh cool so that's happening okay let's get to a nice long jam I'm searching for my main line I said I couldn't hit it sideways I said I couldn't hit it sideways I just like Sister Ray said With an arm We'll be right back. And this way on They're busy waiting for her booster Who just got back from Carolina She said she didn't like the weather

They're busy waiting for her sailor Who's thinking just to make a liver He's just here from Alabama He wants no way to earn a dollar I'm searching for my pain I said I couldn't hit it sideways I couldn't hit it sideways Oh, I think that's just the way it's there

Stayin' on You know, I don't like just the way it's there. Stay on. You know, I don't like to truncate songs, so I hope you have, you know, 13 more minutes of content about The Velvet Underground. Talk to me. I insist that you play the whole 17 minutes before we're going to walk out. No.

I really romanticize the Velvet Underground. This was kind of a turn. And again, I learned about, you know, I knew what did I know about Lou Reed. I knew Walk on the Wild Side, right? And that's what you knew. But I read magazines and I knew there was more to him. I read this reference to him. I read a biography

of Andy Warhol and I think I read that before I'd really heard them. And then, and then it was like, then I fell in and there's like so much to them in again, really four albums. You know, there's the, you know, what I call the kind of fucked up New York junkie, proto-punk transvestite kind of side to them, which is what we're hearing here, which is very attractive in its way. And then there's the folk rock band that they in some ways really were underneath. And then we'll talk about Laurie Anderson later because there's this, you know,

what was attractive to me about this, this is from their second album, White Light, White Heat. What was attractive to me about this, this is from their second album, White Light, White Heat, and there were only two albums with John Cale, and this is one of them, was that it embodied this proto-punk side with this experimental kind of yearning. So they're really, you know,

this is done in one take. They're really, it know, they're really, this is done in one take. They're really, it starts off really simply. And then, you know, there's improv, but not like improv we've known. This is not John Coltrane, even if they were fans. There's like, there's no bass because John Cale is playing organ through an electric guitar amp provided by Vox at the time. And I don't know, there's just something, this is another side of me for sure that, that, you know, that kind of, this is not the Partridge family, but you know,

there's something Partridge family about Lou and John and Sterling and Mo and, you know, Nico, I don't know, Nico was like Danny Bonaduce or something. And Andy Warhol was Ruben Kincaid, you know. Right, no. I can see that the mapping works perfectly there.

Yeah, and I love the, like it's a, dare I say, grunge. Like, it's very grungy, dirty sound. And you can, you know, I don't know, I'm sure arguments have been made left, right, and center that the Velvet Underground, the first grunge band, right? They give that credit a lot to Neil Young, but you hear it all here. Yeah, they're, well, Lou's hair is shorter, but, I mean, it's all, I mean, I love all, it's all happening at the same time. This is 1968, whatever, right? Wouldn't you say more like proto-punk?

I mean, grunge. That's an idea I'd never considered. This is where we need Alan to say, well, I don't really think it's either grunge or proto-punk. I mean, it's really actually more like, so, but I think it's all, you know, we can see it again, a line, right? And people pick up little, you know, bits of Neil here, maybe, you know, so when you get to a band like Dream Syndicate, for example, they're obviously influenced by Velvet Underground,

they're obviously influenced by Crazy Horse in their different ways, and then they're doing their own thing. And that's, like, ultimately, if it's just, you know, like in Nirvana and Pearl Jam and so on, they have to break through from that or we wouldn't really care about them. What is this organ that we're hearing right now? It's incredible. It's a Farfisa, right? And that's John Cale. Oh, that's

incredible. And yeah, and he's really cranked it up because the amp could and then sterling morrison found that he had to crank up his guitar um because it was you know it was being in a way overpowered by the organ and then um when john kale produced jonathan richmond later and when he's doing roadrunner and they use the same organ or basically the same organ and the same kind of technique you can hear and then Jonathan Richman does a song called Velvet Underground

and you hear kind of a little reference to this song I don't know, he did he saw more Velvet Underground shows than anyone in the world apparently True or false Jim is Alan working on a James B. project? You don't have to.

You can tap on it. With Alan, he doesn't always show his hand even though you think he is but he talks about things that would be a good idea and he's basically said a james b uh film or project would be a good idea uh but that's kind of as far as he's gone with but then i think he's probably also said but it couldn't be done. You know, it'd be impossible. Okay, well, I'm going to have him on the show next month. I'll ask him the same question and hear what he has to say, because I'm of the opinion that James B. is a famous guy.

Oh, right, the Toronto Mike question. Lisa says absolutely. I heard that. And James B. recently released a film of his own that he directed. I'm trying right now to remember the name of it. But yeah, it was, I had a screen. I mean, it depends on your, I mean, are we, is he, are we famous outside

of Canada? Are we famous? Well, I always think of it as like from a Toronto, Ontario, Canada perspective. You're holding up a Look People album. Right, okay. This is incredible. And I remember seeing them on stage at the Horseshoe and amongst other places. They are legendary.

Well, here's what's wild about this band, the Look People. A couple of things that tie in very nicely to this song, and I'm glad it's going to run 17 minutes. But one is, did you guys know that Ian and Sylvia Tyson's son is in The Look People? Clay. Oh, wow. I once had... That's a mind blow for Lisa.

I didn't know that. Sorry. In a previous... I work at the Art Gallery of Ontario, but I've worked there twice. And I used to program music there, and I had Sylvia and Clay play together. And they did Four Strong Winds, it was Four Strong Winds

and Clay did the Ian parts. So that was pretty nice. That's where we first met, Jim. Right? Yep. Is Bingo Bob Ouellette's wife still part of the team there? She is. And she's a great person.

And we are colleagues and allies. She'd have to be a great person to be married to Bob. So absolutely. Is that great Bob Scott you're talking about? No. So now we've mentioned James B and the great Bob Scott and Clay Tyson. The last member is tying in very much with the song we're listening to right now,

because in his final years and while he was on his deathbed, Lou Reed relied very heavily on the saint that is Kevin Hearn. Yep. And there's an episode of Toronto Mic'd in which we talk about, you know, the relationship of Kevin Hearn with Lou Reed and how Kevin was able to be there with Lou and how that experience, I don't want to use the word trained but helped Kevin

when he did almost the exact same thing with Gore Downey. So Kevin Hearn was there with Gore Downey. In fact that interview, that famous interview with Gore Downey when he's talking to Peter Mansbridge on the National that's Kevin Hearn's living room.

Uh huh. Yeah so we're listening to into Peter Mansbridge on the National. That's Kevin Hearn's living room. Uh-huh. There you go. Right. Yeah, so we're listening to Lou Reed and we're referencing James B. And it all comes full circle. I think Alan should do a James B. documentary. And even Kevin Hearn played at the last Tavern of Song.

He had a play. So it's all... Yeah, it's all yeah it's all connected but that man's all over the place and when I first started working with Elliot within the first few years one of the things that he did was brought

just to say he brought Lou Reed into the Danforth Music Hall to do a reading and so I helped out in that show and got to meet Lou and I was with like I can't John Giorno and Jim Carroll it was a diaries okay that's amazing all my friends just die okay so this was all one take you're telling me this was just

alive on the floor the engineer walked out apparently and said let me know when you're done and i like i like that so i this is like a mono version or whatever but this is like how this song is intended to be listened to like it's it's it's it sounds the way it should sound i think it's cool there are many live versions because they it became a favorite and they would frequently end with it and sometimes it would run like a half hour long and you became a favorite and they would frequently end with it and sometimes it would run like a half hour long and you can find them and they go off in all kinds of tangents and uh some people uh people maybe of your vintage often heard it first by joy division on still right just like Race, you know.

And that's a cool version. I once heard Echo and the Bunnymen weave it into a song when they were performing at El Macombo years ago as Sister Sid, Sid Barrett. But it was sort of just, I can't quite remember now, it was woven into something at the end of the song. And I just realized that there is a, like everything's connected.

Lisa, this is what I like about what I do here is that I, all the pieces fit together. It all comes together. But also I just realized we did talk about the Mark Nathan episode, which I dropped yesterday, which has all that Steven page talk. Well,

really it's a bare naked ladies talk and Kevin Hearn, a member of bare naked ladies everything's connected okay i'm thinking we might have to truncate this song to get to the next one uh but maybe no maybe i don't have to because maybe i can give you a gift jim okay thank you love. I have a wireless speaker for you, courtesy of Moneris. Wow, that's amazing. And it's actually... I saw the big Moneris building when I got off the subway. Yeah, Islington and Bloor, absolutely. And Lisa, there's one for you as well.

One for me. Absolutely. So quality speaker. You two are going to listen to season five of Yes, We Are are open which is an inspiring podcast it's award-winning too and it's from manaris but it's hosted by fotm al grego al grego 100 confirmed for tmlx14 on saturday the cuddly one will be there but he went east he went to the maritimes he went to newfoundland and he collected these inspiring stories from entrepreneurs and small business owners. And he shares them on Yes, We Are Open.

So you guys can listen to that with a new speaker. That's great. Awesome. And it says on the back, Boxan, you don't have to stop the music tonight. Boxan. And while you're listening to podcasts, a couple more I'll tell you about. And while you're listening to podcasts, a couple more I'll tell you about. One is the Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, hosted by Chris Cooksey.

Whether you already work with a trusted financial advisor or currently manage your own investment plans, the Advantaged Investor provides the engaging wealth management information you value as you pursue your most important goals. And I have another gift. it's a measuring tape there you go lisa i don't want you to be without so that is from ridley funeral home pillars of the community since 1921 and brad jones his excellent podcast with ridley funeral home is called life's undertaking and i'm hoping I'll see Brad. I think I'm seeing him on Saturday at TMLX14 as well. So, you were mentioning before we press record, Jim, that you just went to a funeral.

Yeah, I went to a funeral for the father of one of my oldest friends, Barry. And so I was actually thinking about, oh, I'm going to be on this podcast tomorrow. Shout out to Ridley Funeral. We will have shout outs to Ridley, which is, and Mike is always

very witty and quick to figure out where those... How old was he when he passed? 87. That's a good long life. That's a good run, yeah. Although, like, I say that now, but when I'm like 81 or 82, I'm going to be like,

oh, that's too young. 87. So it all depends where you're at, I guess. now, but when I'm 81 or 82, I'm going to be like, oh, that's too young. 87. So it all depends where you're at, I guess. Okay. We did get that 17-minute jam. We did it all. So you ready to kick out another one? Here we go.

Oh, Superman. Oh Superman Oh George Oh Mom and Dad Mom and Dad Oh Superman Oh John Oh, John Oh, Mom and Dad Mom and Dad Mom and Dad

Hi. I'm not home right now, but if you want to leave a message, just start talking at the sound of the tone. Hello? This is your mother. Are you there? Are you coming home? Hello? Is anybody home? Well, you don't know me. But I know you. And I've got a message. To give to you. Here come the planes

Man, it sounds good on a chance. Shout out to Brave New Waves. Talk to me about Laurie Anderson's Oh Superman. Shout out to Brave New Waves, but I first heard it on a show that predated Brave New Waves called Neon Nights, or maybe it was just called Neon. It was from CBC Vancouver.

And on Saturday nights, you could hear it when CPC was on 740. And we couldn't quite get it. Like, it was in Scarborough, all we couldn't quite get it. Like, it was in Scarborough, all the way in Scarborough. So it kind of came in kind of correctly, but we put up with it. And it's where we heard a lot of, like, we were listening to it, me and my girlfriend and her sister. If we weren't out on Saturday nights, we always listened to it.

And we heard a lot of new things for the first time, like Husker Dew, that's the first time I heard them. And I heard this and it was just kind of like, you know, it was like, I mean, kind of like Sister Ray in that the effect it had on me. And then it was like, this is it. This is what I need. This is what I've been looking for. And I think i might have already heard philip glass by then and i was into that but this was like some kind of synthesis of

of pop music and um the kind of experimentation that was you know going i mean it wasn't it wasn't her first thing she'd been recording. She'd been, I eventually saw her on this anthology that John Giorno did, Dial a Poet's Anthology that also featured Patti Smith and great poets like Ed Sanders and Ann Waldman and all that. So they were part of this company, you know. And so it really opened things up for me. you know? And so it really opened things up for me.

But I just get, and it's a very, obviously it's a very disturbing song. And, you know, she had stopped playing it in her live performances for a while. And then I can't remember, I think Lou Reed convinced her to bring back a version of it. And then 9-11 happened. And then she did a version after that. And of course, they're American planes made in America.

I had a different, you know, and not a different meaning, but it was loaded. So I don't know. Very, very inspirational. And she's coming to town. And I haven't bought my tickets yet. I've never seen her live. So I need to do it. She's coming to town and I haven't bought my tickets yet. I've never seen her live. So I need to do it.

She's coming to the, um, you know, the Royal Conservatory, uh, uh, the great hall there. Um, and, uh, trying to convince my family and they're like, they're not necessarily fans the way I'm a fan. Also a longer song, although nothing like Sister Ray, but a good nine minutes or so. Yeah, it was released as an EP single, and there was a song on it on the B-Cycle called Walk the

Dog, which she never released on the... Well, they then came out in 82 on Big Science, which was a relatively big album. But I mean, this is like respected, but it didn't make her household name. And then she did a triple album set called United States, or Live in America or something like that.

It's like a real epic performance piece, but makes sense as a recording without visuals. And then there was a film. All this stuff all happened in the kind of early to mid-80s. There was a lot of activity. I forgot the name of the film, but it had a kind of repertory run. It was quite good. Lisa, what do you think of this jam by

Laurie Anderson? Well, I have never heard this song before. What? No, I haven't. Laurie Anderson is someone who I've been aware of peripherally, I guess. Not someone I've really ever gotten into it, which is another reason,

as I say earlier, why I love doing this podcast with you jim because uh i'm always being introduced to new artists and new music um i know um i'm trying to think of what other songs by her well you know what my i only know one song by laurie anderson so i i could see how you'd miss her i only know oh super superman, I know that she was with Lou Reed, right? And they were married, yeah. They were married until he died. I mean, that happened later,

but they were married for a long time until he died, yeah. Right, see, it is really connected here. Wow. I once did see them in Washington Square Park with their dog, and very fleetingly. I didn't say anything to them. But even though I should have said, hey, Lou, do you remember being in Toronto?

I got you a seven up. I will shout out the Toronto-miked episode of Brent Bambury, because we talked about Laurie in there, but it's quite the dive in, even though he's not the original host of Brave New Waves, but he's like, I would argue he's the one most people seem to remember.

Brent Bambury in Brave New Waves. And I know I was a bit young too, because at the time I was more of a 680 CFTR all hits guy, but I know CFNY was playing Laurie Anderson in songs like this. Yeah, for a brief period. Okay. Which period? By the way, next week, Ivor Hamilton drops by

for his exit interview that he's retired now, but we'll do some CFNY talk there. Yeah, Ivor's great. Ivor did a lot for the music scene in Canada, for sure. What period? To me, like CFNY, once something, when synth pop kind of hit and that really became their kind of signature, they were no longer eclectic. So it's the eclectic period, kind of, you know, 78 to 81 and a half.

Okay, okay, okay. eight to eighty one and a half okay okay and then and then you know then then they then then they're all you know whatever they called it at the time but i didn't i think the eclectic side of it kind of and then they kind of seemed to alternate between that synthy thing and then chris shepherd and then um and then guitar alt guitar blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever forms that took. But it became more about like signature styles and not about, like when they originally started, it was really, you'd hear, you know, Genesis and then Bob Dylan and then, you know, you know, Think Pink and then Toast, you know, which is now...

Street Band. Yep. Which is now very key to the TMU here, the Toronto Mic'd Universe. But I did get a note the other day from David Marsden, because there's a sentiment out there that it's when David Marsden was PD that they would basically have an eclectic playlist because he gave you a lot of, DJs had,

you know, nowadays DJs have really no say almost in what they play. It's all pre-programmed and they just tell you what it was called or something. They don't even do that. But David Marsden had a system and, and people on the air at CFNY had some leeway, like what they would play within reason

in following this little guideline or whatever. Yeah, so Marsden, yeah, we loved Marsden, and Dave, Marsden, and I got to know him later, and I do this YouTube series that started out as a film. It's called Music Swims Back to Me, and there's interviews with people also talking about their everyday encounters with music. And there will be a Marsden episode soon.

Marsden. Most of it was shot several years ago, but I'm going to continue it. But we loved him, and we loved that era. And I think a lot of us that I knew know we really picked up on Brave New Waves originally with Augusta Lappe right who then went on to Two New Hours which was also a great show but that was more on the kind of experimental much more experimental side of things and then Brent Bambury was a great host for sure okay to finish that thought on David Marsden is he wrote me a note to say he'd like to come back and do like another deep dive in early 2024.

So we're going to make that happen and get Marsden back in the basement. His favorite band, one of his favorite bands was Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd, absolutely, absolutely. And let's kick out another jam. Hello, Mr. Big Shot. Say you're looking smart.

I've had a tiring day. I took the kids along to the park. You've become a stranger. Every night with the boys got a new suit That old smile's come back and I kiss The children goodnight and I slip Away on the newly waxed floor I've become a giant I fill every street I dwarf the rooftops

I hunch back the road Stars dance at my feet Leave it all behind me Screaming kids on my knee and the telly Telly swallowing me and the neighbors shouting next door and the subway trembling the roller I see the buildings blazing with moonlight In Channing Way Their very eyes seem to suck you in With their laughter They seem to say

You're alright now So stop a while Behind our smile In Channing Way Scott Walker Oh my god Okay I'm going to take a Before I talk about Scott Walker

I'm going to say one thing that I really Had to say About the eclectic spirit The real eclectic radio After CFNY Became a little bit more Corporate Was college radio When college radio could go after CFNY became a little bit more corporate,

was college radio. When college radio could go on the airwaves. So for me, it was CKLN and CIUT. And that was like a lifeline, even for a few years before Brave New Waves. So I just have to say that. No, I'm glad you said that. So.

All right, who's this? I don't even really know that much. I know. I remember I learned a bit about Scott Walker when he passed away a few years ago, but kind of a blind spot for me. Me too. I was introduced to the song just when we did our last episode. Yeah, we did. Our last episode was on with this song. Like, it sounds like Neil Diamond to me.

Well, there's a lot. Scott Walker had several periods. So there was a band called the Walker Brothers, who you've probably heard of. And they had a big hit over here with, well, two big hits. I guess, Make It Easy on Yourself, the Bach-Rock David song. And then, you know, I just forgot the name of the song. But many others, they had a lot of hits. you know, I just forgot the name of the song. But

and many other, they had a lot of hits and they were this band from the US like, I don't know, Connecticut or something like that. The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore. The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore. Great song. But then they moved to England and they kind of looked like

and sounded like they were like a you know a uk band and um scott walker went solo and did like a lot of a lot of things including covers of you know paulinka songs and he had a tv show for a while and this kind of thing and then he started covering uh jacques brelrel songs, including a lot of the songs that were in the kind of sort of musical Jacques Brel is Alive and While Living in Paris, which are these brilliant English translations of the songs by Mort Schumann and company. And Scott Walker's versions of those songs are just gold you know and i didn't hear those what i heard first of scott walker one day my friend lisa godfrey one of my oldest friends who's a producer at cbc ideas now and she was at q for many years until the great meltdown and she came over to my house. We grew up in the suburbs of Scarborough

with a copy of an album called Fire Escape in the Sky, The Godlike Genius of Scott Walker. And she said, I assume you already have this album because it was produced by Julian Cope. And at the time, I was a big Teardrop Explodes fan. I'm not exactly sure why because they're such a kind of meager band but um but i thought he was an interesting character and i didn't have the album and he didn't know who scott walker was your name was scott engel and i put the album on and the

first song was something called seventh seal which is about an ingmar bergman film and i didn't really know ingmar bergman was and everything just went like, by the way, this is all happening in 1981. So there's an interesting thing. I'm like 17, 18 and lots of things changed my, you know, my, my world before that. But that age, it was like so many things are happening at once. And then this is like so huge though, because, um, I realized, well, so huge though because um i realized well it's kind of psychedelic and i love that about it but it kind of sounds like those crooners that i've been avoiding and it kind of sounds like neil diamond and so suddenly yeah i would play neil diamond and i'd play richard harris doing macarthur park right and uh like tom jones even tom jones and Sinatra, obviously. And then I know- Keith Hampshire.

Keith Hampshire. Well, I loved anything K-Tel I already love. So Keith Hampshire came to me via K-Tel. So it opened up the pop side, but it was also, like who writes a song called The Amorous Humphrey Plug? And what record company says that's a good idea? And the lyrics are are bent and

beautiful and i don't know i find a lot of humor in the lyrics i partly think is this a parody of uh tom jones song i don't know i mean there's something really funny and clever about it too and so he he had these phases and they kept getting weirder and weirder. Um, and, uh, and he would put out albums like every 10 years. And I think,

I don't know, drive cabs around Paris or something like that. And he was like, people thought he was a rec, recluse, but he was in fact just living a life and occasionally recording and showing up at, I think he actually curated one of those,

um, all tomorrow's parties, Parties festivals in England. So he had a real broad interest in music, but he mostly shat on popular music at a certain point and dismissed most of his early work. And I think he even dismissed this period. This song, songs that I really love came from four albums called Scott one,

Scott two, Scott three and Scott four. And they were a mix of these, um, original compositions, the Braille covers, and then, um,

you know, windmills of your mind and that kind of thing. A kind of, uh, thousand songs fodder. Your friend Godfrey, was it Lisa Godfrey?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Is she related to Paul Godfrey? I don't think so, no. Okay, because I learned recently that Paul Godfrey's son, Rob Godfrey, just bought the Toronto Maple Leaf Baseball Club, and his partner in that endeavor is a good friend of mine, Keith Stein. Oh, and Paul Godfrey was, yeah, Chase and Metro chair and all that stuff.

I think he was the chair when we were friends in high school and she was pretty emphatic that she wasn't related to him. Okay, okay. You got to ask those tough questions. All right, amazing. So Lisa, how has this experience been for you? Have you enjoyed hearing Jim Shedden kick out these jams? Of course, absolutely. Imagine she said, no, this is terrible and I hate it.

I'm tempted to say it's nice to hear Jim sort of lay out his thoughts uninterrupted. That's it. The good stuff doesn't happen until an hour into these things. There's a reason why I'm saying that and why Jim's laughing because he knows. Talking about um... When you get, with

our podcast, there's four of us, right? So inevitably there's a kind of survival of the finish. Well, you've got to share the spotlight on your A Thousand Songs podcast. Alright, this is something different, this song,

I think. Let's kick this out and talk about it. Remember, George. Order. Design. Design Tension Balance Harmony Harmony Harmony. We are the red water. Of the green purple and the red glass. Let us pass through our perfect park. Pausing on us some pain

By the blue, triangular water The soft, elliptical glass As we pass Through arrangements of shadows Towards the verticals of dreams Forever Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,, oh,-oh,-oh,-oh,-oh,-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh- In a perfect heart Made of flecks of light And dark And parasols. Bom bom bom, bom bom bom bom bom bom People stalling through the trees of the salt of Earth and mine Of a song to learn and learn

On an island in the river On an ordinary Sunday Sunday E mordi veri Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Sunday! Woo! Excuse me. Wow. Sunday.

So CBC again. excuse me wow sunday so cbc again um when i used to listen to cbc what we would call uh two now but it was fm uh in the mornings before i'd go to when i was in university and i just listened to it as i was getting ready and uh one morning i don't know who came on. Maybe it was Richard Azunian came on as a guest or something and played this record by Stephen Sondheim. It had just come out. And I heard the name Sondheim, and I knew he was, I knew very, very, very little about musicals. Like I really only knew Jacques Brel's Alive and Well and Living in Paris, you know, as a recording

and I might have had a copy of South Pacific and I watched Hollywood musicals but I I went to see Evita with my dad and I thought it was shit and I wrote off musicals, right? Which is kind of funny given my life now

because my daughter is all about that world and I see a lot of musicals and i like them but i heard this and i and i and i instantly heard that there was something else there was something else like this this resonated to me with the phil glass and steve reich you know music and even not i mean it's a stretch to say it resonated with Laurie Anderson, but it was in the kind of vein of experimentation, but accessible and ambitious. I think that's what it was. I was like attracted to, um, pop on the one hand, but also ambitious music. And it's still kind of a, um, and, um, so I, I, I went downtown to Sam, the record man on young street, which was, uh, my cathedral and, um, bought the cassette. I had a Walkman or a fake Walkman and I played it and I skipped class. And I just, for several years, it was one of my small number of cassettes and I just played it over and over and over again.

And it never occurred to me that I would ever see it. And I've seen it, uh, several times in different forms. Um, and, uh, sorry,

what's the name of the musical? Oh, Sunday in the park with George. Okay. Sunday in the park with George. George. And it was, uh,

um, yeah, but Stephen Sondheim wrote the music and lyrics and james lapine wrote the book and uh it's um it's based on a kind of imaginary uh uh scenario of george surratt painting his famous painting uh sunday afternoon on the grand jat um which is like a point to this masterpiece that's in the art institute of chicago of people on the island looking at the uh building that's going on it's really like the eiffel tower being built and so on and just kind of like wondering what the hell is going on with their world kind of city and country coming together and coming apart and george and his uh

his uh imaginary lover here uh imaginary as an imaginary for the for some time because he calls her dot which is kind of funny um but i didn't really i wasn't really paying attention to those details i was just like totally into the music and into Bernadette Peters, who I knew of maybe from the Carol Burnett show and Mandy Patinkin, who I did not know. And I just like really attracted to these totally strange voices. I discovered Mandy Patinkin in the princess bride. That was like my first exposure and Bernadette Peters in Annie.

Right. Oh, of course. Yeah. And was my first exposure. And Bernadette Peters in Annie. Right. Oh, of course. Yeah. And she's fantastic there. And then, then me and my daughter really got into, I mean,

she's, that's her world, and musical theater, and became a big Sondheim fan and stuff. So this became like huge in our, and my wife's also very much, you know, we're aligned on this,

even if we're not necessarily aligned on, on everything musically. In the, have you two seen Tick Tick Boom? Yep. Yeah, it was great. There's a,

you'll hear in that movie, there's a voicemail that was left for, uh, Jonathan Larson from, uh, Sondheim, uh, Stephen Sondheim. And that was actually Stephen Sondheim's, uh,

that was his voice. That was his voice. Yeah. My daughter saw it live and then, uh, we saw the movie and it was, yeah, it was really,

really moving. And it actually made me appreciate Rent more for some reason. I was always a little like, I don't know, too snobbish to like it because it was too popular. But in fact, it's quite brilliant. And you know, Jim, that my Toast co-hosts, it's tough to say, my Toast co-hosts are big musical theater people.

Like, you know, Bob Ouellette loves his musical theater. And Rob Pruce worked on Broadway. Like, this is like his world. So I'm sure that they'll enjoy you kicking out some Sondheim here. Okay. This has been amazing. We got the penultimate jam coming up. I will just quickly shout out recycle my electronics.ca because if you have

old cables, old device, old electronics, don't throw that in the garbage. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca and find out a depot near you where you can drop it off and it will be properly recycled so the chemicals don't end up in our landfill. That's an order.

Lisa? I've got lots of those. Me too. You've got an address now to go to. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. And I know earlier Lisa and I were talking about like, who's more unwell? I think you might be the winner. I feel like.

Yeah, I was holding back my cough during that last song. And then I wasn't sure like, oh, maybe that's part of the musical. Like maybe, you know, you never know what's going to happen in these musical jams. But all right. I was in Montreal three weekends ago and I saw the great mural for this gentleman. Let's kick it. It's four in the morning The end of December I'm writing you now just to see if you're better New York is cold, but I like where I'm living.

There's music on Clinton Street all through the evening. I hear that you're building your little house deep in the desert You're living for nothing now I hope you're keeping some kind of record Yes, and Jane came by with a lock of your hair She said that you gave it to her That night that you planned to go clear Did you ever go clear?

Oh, the last time we saw you You looked so much older Your famous blue raincoat was torn at the shoulder You'd been to the station To meet every train Then you came home Without Lily Marlene And you treated

My woman To a flake Of your life And when she came back She was nobody's wife Well, I see you There with a rose in your tea One more thin gypsy thief Well, I see James awake

She sends her regard This is an absolutely gorgeous song, Jim. Yeah. There's... I have these two sides. One is that I want to be open and experiment and all that, and then I have this side that is dismissive. Even though in high school,

I remember I wrote two essays on Leonard Cohen, the poet, when I knew that he recorded music and I wouldn't even listen to it because I thought it was going to be hopeless hippie shit. And it's wonderfully hopeless hippie shit. It's not hopeless though. And I just didn't listen to it. And then I couldn't avoid it. It kept coming at me. Maybe first with Nick Cave covering Avalanche and then I kept hearing it in

different movies. From Robert Altman to experimental films and Werner Herzog and all that. And I've recently written two pieces on his use of music and, or people's use of his music in their films. But the, the deal closer for me, like that, like it was actually jennifer warns's album of you know named after this song and um which you know my father liked which is like not nothing not to put my father's musical taste down or anything like that but it was like

something where at that time of my life i wasn't looking to like things that my parents liked, that would have been Boney M and ABBA, who I like now, by the way. But not as much as I like Leonard Cohen. And I really love that Jennifer Warren's album. And I only knew, I forgot, not just early AM hit of hers, which I liked just fine,

but I couldn't escape that album. And that was 19, and that actually came out before I'm Your Man, and the album includes two songs from I'm Your Man on it. So kind of all that was happening at once, and so suddenly in 1986, 87, I became a huge Leonard Cohen fan. And,

uh, and then all this stuff came rushing back to me. Like I had heard this song. Um, it was parked in my head. You know, I, I,

you know, friends had his records and I did hear them and I just kind of let them be there. And, you know, and then they, they just kind of came rushing back to me. She, of course, saying on up where we belong that's right yeah a buffy saint marie song that's right so um but she was also a backup singer for leonard collins stuff so kind of that's uh

um and then he wrote some of the lyrics of um of Bernadette for her and all that. Right. So yeah, this is, I mean, his version ultimately is the version I like. And I spent some of the last couple of years really immersed in Cohen because we did a Cohen exhibition at the AGO. And I co-edited the book, the catalog that went with it. and I co-edited the book, the catalog that went with it. So I got to spend time in the archive and just thinking about how to, you know, sequence his work and life

and who to work with to tell that story. So it was great. And let's not forget The Time of My Life from Dirty Dancing, which was a monster jam. Yeah. No, she's had these other. Sure. Yeah.

Not to be dismissed. But what am I thinking of? There was like an early hit of hers that was, I can't remember now. Before All That. Before All That. Okay. Well, I'll be looking that up. Let me get to Lisa's take on Leonard Cohen there.

Oh, of course. It's exquisite. It's a gorgeous song. And I'm glad you've chosen it. This is a really nice selection, Jim. I didn't know what songs you were choosing today. You went in cold, which is the way to go. I wish I could go in cold, but I can't really go in cold

because I load them up in my soundboard here. So it's like, how do I go in cold? Right Time of the Night, 1976. Okay, because the first anything, which wasn't really a hit, her first single was called Easy to Be Hard. No, that's a cover of that. Okay.

So you're sure it's not Right Time of the Night, which was the first hit? No, yeah, that's it. Okay, Jennifer. Okay sure it's not Right Time of the Night, which was the first hit? No, yeah, that's it. That's it. Okay, Jennifer. Okay, that's 1976. Yeah, well before, because up where we belong is 1982 with Joe Cocker.

All right. Okay, this is great. By the way, I just want to shout out my preferred cover of Famous Blue Raincoat, which is tori amos that's great yeah beautiful yeah shout out to tori who was heard recently uh we did a fotm you should participate in these gym because you just record them at home and then you send me the audio file every month we do one they're called fotm kotjs we're like just uh listeners or former guests fotms friends of toronto mike lisa you're now an fotm by the way congratulations oh it's an honor but we just did listeners or former guests, FOTMs, Friends of Toronto Mike,

Lisa, you're now an FOTM, by the way. Congratulations. Oh, it's an honor. But we just did like crappy covers, right? Which is obviously a very subjective

and loaded question. And someone, I think it was YYZ Gord, who hated the Tori Amos cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit. I love that. You know what? I love it too.

So it's very subjective, these crappy covers. All right, one jam to go. Oh my goodness. This has been a treat here. Let's kick out your final jam. You're all over the place with you're Janice, Jim. Okay. In my hour of darkness

In my time of need O Lord, grant me vision O Lord, grant me speed Once I knew a young man went driving through the night Miles and miles

without a word but just his high beam lights Who'd have ever thought they'd build such a deadly Denver bend To be so

strong, to take so long, as it would till the end Graham Parsons featuring Emmylou Harris. Well, they co-wrote it. And on that album, they were originally together. And then Graham's wife at the time was jealous, and so he de-emphasized Amy Liu. But he was probably up to no good.

He basically wrote this and, you know, OD'd, and we didn't hear from him. And Graham, I knew, you know, there's a kind of joke that all these post-punk bands that we followed in the scene in Toronto took off to New York or London

and failed and bought a Graham Parsons cassette on the way back and came back and became like cowboy junkies and blue rodeo right that's like huge influence uh and um he's just between him and the bands he was in including the that period of the birds and then the flying burrito brothers um everyone you know people in my life were were into him and um you know one thing i didn't say is a lot of this music has come to me, I connected it to people,

but some of it's just come to me as gifts. So in this case, my friend Kate, who might a, a, a double GP and grievous angel, uh, uh, box set. And, uh, it was like, you know, that CD I've never had his work on LP, you know, like a lot of artists have had it every format. Um, and, uh, and I got it, I got it like it wasn't got it. I didn't have to resist anymore. I was a fan. There's a few songs that really moved me. This one came back to me a few times. So I did a documentary called

I Drink. It was about addiction and recovery, and it became a very personal film. I ended with this more or less, really ended with Hank Williams' I Saw the Light, but it's kind of like snuck in at the end. And we got permission from Graham Parsons' estate and from Emily Harris and all that to use it. Um, we didn't pay anyone anything for the music and the film that was one of, we didn't pay anyone anything for the film.

So it was kind of like a real challenge. Um, and it, it's just, uh, I don't know. It's just like, it's like a song to me about,

uh, um, just resigning, resigning, you know, from the, from, and, and, uh, acceptance. Um, and, uh, I don't know, I don't know how to put it exactly. It's very,

funnily enough, I originally wanted to use, uh, Charlie Rich's, uh, feel like going home and I couldn't get permission, but that's the next song we're doing on our podcast, which has the same kind of feeling of just like, you know, I'm ready for another way, you know? Let go and let God. Let go and let Gord. Let go and let Gord. In Gord we trust. In Gord we trust because, you know.

But, you know, you Gord we trust. In Gord we trust because, you know. But, you know, you got to serve somebody. Looked up to the Gord above and said, hey, man, thanks. Do you know what's been 50 years? It was 50 years ago this past September that Graham Parsons passed away. Wow. And he was only 26 years old. Yeah, he was in that club, 26, 27 club, you know. And, yeah, it doesn't work.

You don't want to be in that club, right? No. But he gave us a lot and a beautiful voice and beautiful productions on those records. And, you know, we just had a huge influence on uh on a great period like um i feel like i kind of you know it was i had a kind of real interest in music in toronto and the like in like 80 i don't know 77 to 82 like whenever i could whoever i could see uh underage till i could you know till about university and then i kind of ignored it except for the jazz scene and the experimental

music scene. And then it kind of came up for air in the early nineties and everyone had gone, you know, roots rock alt country and all that. And it was really amazing. It was like, and there was, that's the period of lowest of the low and blue radio. And I mean, they'd been around before that, but there was like kind of real, like, you know,

that was a typical night on the town. Did you hear the Hodge 100 for 2023? I did. Yeah. After the recording with Mark Nathan, he told me that he went and listened to every single song that Dave Hodge mentioned in his list of 100, which I passed on to Dave. And really, to hit Dave's head at best, he's like, if even one person discovers new music because of the Hodge 100, he says his work is done.

So, yeah, it was very inspiring because it was sort of the opposite of getting my my fucking spotify report card at the end of the year it's like it's like it's like this this this loop you can't get out of you know it's like i already know that i like eggy pops the passenger like i i will listen to that on my own don't keep you know so so the Dave Hodge list was great because I, you know, most, I mean, I knew some of that and I knew some of the artists,

but it certainly, the vast majority of it was new to me. I'm surprised you're a Spotify guy because you're a, you're a Neil Young fan, right? It's, well, so for a while I got both Spotify and Apple,

but it was like, okay, I mean all these goddamn playlists and all that Neil and Joni, you know um so then i had both and that was ridiculous and then i realized that unfortunately whether i like it or not i'm a prime member right so prime has it all for free right so you and you can i could actually cancel spotify and just have prime it's funny how you say whether I like it or not, because I'm in the same boat. I have Prime. It's just like, oh, my wife needs it for some delivery thing or whatever, and it

comes with other stuff, like a streaming service, etc. So I'm in the same boat there. But this was actually as good as I thought it could be, because I like the way your brain works, Jim, and I was very curious about what your jams were and why.

And if Alan is listening, I want him to know that I would be honored at some point after his visit with his brother, Michael. If he'd kick out the jams of me, I would dig that too. So thanks for doing this, Jim. I apologize. There were no Toronto songs. However, if I had an 11th song, it would be Lowest of the Low. Which one?

Bleed a Little Wild Tonight. You know, that might be my favorite too. Stephen Stanley was just here, and I played it for him, and it's like those harmonies is like when Stephen and Ron's voices do that dance together. Just hook it to my veins. I've seen them play. I remember going to this

Bedina Hotel up there at the top, watching them play a long time ago. Go ahead, Jim. I'm not sick of this yet, and I've heard it many times. And I'm not sick of this yet either. And yeah, I've heard it 1,386 times, at least by this point. But I was going to say, Dave Hodge once referred to Lowest of the Low as the Toronto-'d House Band. So that's where we're at now. Lisa, it was nice to meet you and get

your contributions. Anything you want to share with us before we say goodbye? Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on here and Jim for inviting me to join you today. having me on here and Jim for inviting me to join you today. Yeah, Mike, you've got an incredible setup here. I've been watching you work. Going to learn a few things. Bring it back to our podcast, hopefully. Are you live to tape on your podcast? No, we're not. That's the thing. And to quote Alan, he compares our editing process to filigree artists.

I think what we're trying to do is find a faster route. So I think... This is the way to go. I won't edit. This will drop in the feed right away. And no editing required because it all happened in real time. It's nicer to talk about the song while it's in your headphones. I was once on a podcast

where we talked about music that we weren't hearing. I didn't like it. I like to hear the music and talk about it. Go live to tape. I love it. I love what you're doing, Carrie. I don't think you mentioned what this is. Yeah, the red box. You know why?

I think I was shouting out TMLX14, but of course in my freezer right now is a large frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta. Do you like lasagna, Lisa? Yes, I know I said Lisa Lisa Nicole Chan was my middle name earlier, but it's actually lasagna. Lasagna. You're like Garfield. Yeah, absolutely.

You're each getting a lasagna. Ivor Hamilton was supposed to be here yesterday and I told him to wait a week because I sounded like crap and I didn't think he'd want to talk to me. But I will give you his lasagna and I'll get another one for him and I'll be at Palmer's Kitchen on Saturday anyways with a bunch of great FOTMs. So you each get a frozen lasagna and I'll get another one for him and I'll be at Palma's Kitchen on Saturday

anyways with a bunch of great FOTM. So you each get a frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta. Thank you. And that. Thank you. Oh, you're welcome. Okay. And that brings us to the end. Now I have to say and that a third time.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,386th show. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. And much love to those who made this all possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's Raymond James Canada.

That's Mineris. That's Recycle My Electronics. And Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when Gord Stelic and Damien Cox return to the basement for fun and frivolity. Is that a word, Jim? Frivolity? I think it's a word. See you all.

Lisa says yes. See you all then. See you all then. down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy

Yeah, everything is rosy and great 🎶