Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Joel Goldberg: Toronto Mike'd #239

Episode Date: May 31, 2017

Mike chats with Joel Goldberg a.k.a. J Gold about Something Else on CFMT, producing Toronto Rocks, creating Electric Circus and MushMusic, winning awards for directing Maestro Fresh-Wes videos and what it's like working for Moses Znaimer.

Welcome to episode 239 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is producer, director and creator Joel Goldberg aka J Gold.

In the house. Do you prefer Joel or J Gold? Joel, please. Man, I got so many clips loaded up. This is going to be a nostalgia-filled fun ride down memory lane. Thank you for having me, by the way.

I'm a fan of the podcast. Listen, flattery will get you everywhere. Well, I'm also a fan of Great Lakes beer, as we discussed. Yeah. By the way, as a fan, I should tell you, Fridays, they bring food, like a food truck

comes to Great Lakes Brewery really close, I want to say, like rural York and Queensway, but it's between the Gardner and Queensway. What's that called?

Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. Right. Right near the Costco. Right near the Costco. That's exactly right. In fact, they tell me stories like couples

will go to Costco and, you know, typically the woman goes shopping and the man finds his way to Great Lakes. You just described me and my wife. Well, you know, Fridays they bring in the food truck and they have the $5 GLB and the food truck and the patio. I was there last Friday. You'd love it, man. You'd love it. I'll check it out on Friday. I've never been there.

Get over there on a Friday. The other thing I want to take advantage of over at Great Lakes is they do brewery tours too. I have not even had a brewery tour. You've got to do it. I do. I want to see.

But that's something I'm going to get my buddy there to hook me up with, a tour. By the way, this is the very first time we've spoken in person, even though I attended the Christopher Ward book launch that you hosted at the Royal. Yes, at the Royal Theatre. That was so much fun.

Did you intentionally diss the great Stephen Kersner, aka Ed the Sock? Let's hear it. This is real talk. No, we did not diss Stephen Kersner. As it was, it ran a long, long time. And we can only get so many X-Much folks on the air as possible. And, you know, Christopher's book, if you've read it, you've read it. Yeah, I have read it, yeah. It really concentrates on the first 10 years, and, you know, people like George, John Belopoulos, and Ed DeSoc were a little after that era. They were the next generation, in Degrassi terms. Huge, hugely important, both of them and all the other VJs who came after.

But Christopher's book dealt with the first 10 years. So no controversy there. I love Steve Kirsner. I love Ed the Sock. I have no problem with focusing on the first 10 years because that means more Ziggy. Yes. I love Ziggy. And by the way, I've been going back since that day.

I've been going back and forth with her. Sometimes when she means to DM me on Twitter, she actually tweets. So I have to look at her feed will have DMs to me and I'm like, oh, okay. She's been threatening to come in here and I'm going to make it happen. We have more Ziggy content coming up. I love Ziggy too.

Mush, mush music coming up. Let me play a little track for you and tell you a little story about last night. This is Chance the Rapper. Oh, yeah. You have kids, right? Yes.

How old? My daughter is six. My son is 17 months now. Too young for Chance, I think. I was going to say, my 12-year-old, almost 13-year-old daughter is obsessed with Chance the Rapper. And when he was at Echo Beach, like, I don't know, a couple years ago, she said, Daddy, can you get me tickets? And I struck out. I let her like, I don't know, a couple years ago. She said, Daddy, can you get me tickets? And I struck out.

I let her down. I couldn't get tickets. But last night he was at the Budweiser stage, formerly known as the Molson Amphitheater. And I had his lawn tickets. And we had the best time at this concert last night. It was amazing. He is awesome.

As far as that new wave rap is concerned, he's one of my favorites. I think the vibe is, unlike some rap which can get kind of angry, this guy's all chill and loving, and this song, the praises go up, the blessings come down. It's like going to church. Well, it's nice to hear gospel samples being used in contemporary music. That's where it all came from anyway, right? Blues, rhythm and blues, gospel, soul. Most popular music has a root in that music.

That's great. No, you're right. And it's like when U2 put out Rattle and Hum and they had the Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For. You remember that? The gospel version? Absolutely. That was the version, man. That was great. Well, in my Bruce Coburn documentary, Bono did the prologue talking about Bruce. And what I

learned from Bernie Finkelstein, that Bono and Bruce are both very religious. You know, we brought that out with Bruce in the documentary, but I did not know that about Bono. No, I didn't know that either, because he hides it well, but I've seen him with the Pope, for what it's worth. I don't think it overtakes what they do in their art, but they both have a very big spiritual background. Bono is a big fan of Bruce Coburn.

Bruce Coburn, by the way, we'll talk about your documentary too, but fantastic singer. I was thinking about Canadian, because Leonard Cohen just passed. And then Pearl Jam was going in the Hall of Fame and Neil Young was going to do it. And then he canceled because he was sick. And I'm like, oh, damn, he's sick. And then I read this like thing that said like Joni Mitchell is like dying or something.

And I was like, oh, my gosh, like these fantastic singer songwriters are like leaving us. And then I thought of Bruce Colburn, and he's on the list. He just turned 72. He's healthy. He's fine. I envision he only eats granola. You know, that's the funny thing about Bruce. Everybody thinks those things about him, but he's not like that at all. The guy's got, in the time I spent with him in the documentary, he has a wonderful, wicked sense of humor, actually swears a lot. He eats whatever everybody

else eats on the bus. He takes care of himself, but he's not what you think he was. I envision this sort of brooding artist guy. He is an amazing activist as well as a singer-songwriter. But no, he's a regular guy. He really is. He was wonderful to spend time with and learn more about. Does he have a rocket launcher?

I just need to know. That's nice. You'll have to ask him. I always think of great, great songs. It's the kick of the darkness till it bleeds daylight. One of the most fantastic lyrics I think I've ever heard. It's just fantastic.

Yeah, that's... Lovers in a Dangerous Time. Yes. Which some guys know better as the bare naked ladies on the pickup truck in Scarborough. One of the many, many covers of Bruce Coburn songs. Actually, there's a website dedicated to Bruce Coburn covers. Don't know the URL off the top of the many, many covers of Bruce Coburn songs. Actually, there's a website dedicated to Bruce Coburn covers. Don't know the URL off the top of my head, but there's an entire...

Google that. Yeah, there's an entire website just based on Bruce Coburn covers. Wow, he's a great singer-songwriter. And he did... Okay, your kids are too young, but my oldest watched a lot of a show called Franklin, who is a turtle. And he did that theme song.

He sure did. It's Franklin. Yep. That's great. That's Bruce. That's Bruce. So I know Bruce well. And actually, my daughter, she's starting to read Franklin now.

So we'll get her involved. I guess the TV show, I can't find it anymore because I have the younger two and I can't find it. But the books will persevere. I'm sure Retro Ontario, Mr. Retro Ontario can find you. He's already on the case. I'm sure we'll see an expose on BlogTO by the end of the week. The unhidden true story of Franklin,

who I'm sure there's a Toronto connection to Franklin. I just can't remember what it is. Now, you mentioned the beer. So you're taking that six-pack home with you. And at some point, I'm going to find you at Great Lakes Beer on a Friday for Street Food Fridays. You'll dig it. But I have more. So, yeah.

By the way, you mentioned we talked about this off-air, but you're a big Octopus fan like myself. Yes. Octopus IPAs. It's probably my favorite Great Lakes brew now. I do like the Canuck, but I'm a huge fan. And you're not just saying that. No. You could say that to be nice to a sponsor,

but this is legit. This is legit. And shout out to my brother, Dan, who lives in Cleveland. There is a Great Lakes brewery in Cleveland as well. Yes, there is. And I believe they communicate with each other. When we played Cleveland last year in the playoffs, the Cavs, when the Raptors and Cavs were in the conference final,

there was a bet between the two Great Lakes breweries. I followed it on Twitter. That's how I learned about this. But I noticed our guys were smart enough not to do the bet again this year. Yes, yes, Cleveland won. But when I go to Cleveland, I drink Great Lakes from the

brewery down there. And when my brother comes up to visit Toronto, he drinks Toronto Great Lakes brewery. That's a great story. And once I finish talking about Brian from propertyinthesix.com, I'm going to play my favorite Cleveland song just

to kick us off. Right on. Let's hear the very popular, growing in popularity the uh property in the six jingle and i have a tip from Brian. One of Brian's clients is currently looking for a one-bedroom condo in the downtown core, and he's got a budget of $350,000. I don't think that gets you a parking spot in the downtown core. And Joel says that doesn't even get you a parking spot in the downtown core. In this segment, the condos that show best are holding offers successfully with record prices being set brian says another client bought a one-bedroom condo in king west at rev condos that's 560 front street west last summer and it's already gone up over 50 percent in value in less

than a year because of the lack of inventory so brian says now is the time to sell for record high prices as the low-rise housing market has taken the brunt of the hit with so many listings on the market and weary buyers. So if you're buying, don't despair. As Brian says, not all condos are holding offers. So the key is to be aggressive and put an offer at the right moment it hits the market and with a very tight deadline brian is at 416-873-0292 get an expert consultation on the condo market in your area and just say hi tell him toronto mike sent you say hi to brian gerstein he's a good guy i just like the piano in this chamber here so i don't even want to fade it out here.

You're going to be humming. You joke. You're going to go home, and you'll be going, propertyinthesix.com. I like it. Good tune. Thank you.

I agree. I agree, but my wife isn't sure about my taste in music, so we can't always stress that. I mentioned Cleveland songs, so let's kick this off. Let's do this right. Hello, everybody. Hi all tonight. This is Alan. Hi, all, tonight.

This is Alan Pree, the old king of the Moondoggers, and it's time again for another of your favorite rock and roll sessions as you enjoy the Moondog Show. This is your ringtone, isn't it? Oh yeah, I love this song We'll let Ian get started here And it's not the Presidents of the United States cover either. All this energy calling me Back where it comes from So that's Ian Hunter's Cleveland Rocks.

You grew up in Cleveland. I sure did. So how the heck did you end up in Canada? What happened here? Tell me the story My mother and father are both from Toronto Born and raised in Toronto My father got a job in Cleveland Thinking that they

He's a doctor They got a job at a hospital Figuring they'd spend a couple years And then go back to Toronto But he ended up staying 40, 50 years now It's funny how that happens So when I graduated school I went to Kent State University. You know, I had some options.

I could have gone out west to L.A. or Chicago or New York. That's where my film, television business is big in the States. Or I could just drive five miles north where I have family and friends and always close to Cleveland. So Toronto was my choice and it worked. I've been here ever since and I've had a wonderful, wonderful time, wonderful career. I love Toronto. I love Toronto too. And one day we'll beat a Cleveland team in the playoffs because I remember the Indians took us out in the ALCS, as I recall. That's right. So that's three in a row. And the Cavs took us out. Twice in a row, yeah. I have to say, full disclosure here,

I'm a lifetime Indians, Cavs, and Browns fan. So my Toronto teams are the Argos and the Leafs. I love the Leafs, love the Argos. Well, you don't have to worry about a Cleveland team and the CFL. That's right. That one's the same. You say, yeah, and I guess you can't cheer for Columbus, right?

That's not quite the same thing. No. Although my niece goes to school at Ohio State. Yeah, I think Neil Young wrote a song about that, as I recall. He wrote... Kent State, right? Yeah, he wrote a song about my alma mater. Right.

Kent State, May 4th, 1970. Right. For a student shot by the National Guard. The first gig that I know of, you tell me if I'm wrong, but let me play the jingle, actually. This is some retroactivity, courtesy of the aforementioned Retro Ontario. I got the full deal here, Joel. And I'm not stopping it.

It's going full minute here. CKVR, stay right where you are. Is that you on vocals playing? That's so cool. And correct me if I'm wrong, but when you're at, you're going to tell me how you end up at CKVR in Barrie, but Kevin Frankish is there, right? Yeah, Kevin was, well, actually, here, I actually, here, I have to back up a little more. My first job, when I first came to Toronto, I was doing odd jobs here and there,

and I did get a couple of PA jobs on film sets. I was an extra in a movie. I couldn't get regular work, which is what I wanted, so I ended up... My first job was in Sudbury, Ontario, and I worked there for about a year, and then I went to North Bay. The North Bay was a promotion. I was at Mid-Canada Communications then, and they had stations in Sudbury, North Bay, Pembroke. I went to North Bay, and I basically had a daytime talk show that I did. I was also the head of the creative department. You know, you do a little bit of everything.

And you were the mayor. I could have been the mayor. And an intern came in at North Bay, and his name was Kevin Frankish. And he was, and still is, a television savant. The guy could do everything. Right out of school, Canador, I believe, he went to. He can shoot. He can edit. He guy could do everything. Right out of school, Canadore, I believe, he went to he can shoot, he can edit, he could do studio

camera, and he was eager as they come, and as smart as they can come. Was he wearing suspenders when you met him the first time? No. No, I mean, you said you listened, so maybe I can even assume. Did you hear the Kevin Frankish episode

of Trial of the Night? Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah. That was a good one. It's one of the ones that sometimes I get a curveball where I think I'm going to get paint-by-numbers kind of a thing, and then I get this authentic piece of real talk that I wasn't expecting. This happens periodically.

I should actually have an after show. You know Howard Stern, and he's got the after show, and it's Bubba Booey and whoever, John Heim or whatever. Bill Maher. They have the after show you know howard stern and he's got the after show and it's bubba booey and whoever uh john heim or whatever bill maher they have the after show on the way too i should do that the good stuff is my thoughts how i what i think happened in the episode kevin is one of the guys who came in i was expecting a very safe he's active on the air at uh rogers there at breakfast television very safe this night i going to hit him up with some Jennifer Valentine stuff, but I figured I'll get corporate responses from the PR script.

No, he was great. Yeah, no, he's a great guy. And I miss him. I miss Frankie. I just saw Frank the other day, because I was part of the evolution of City TV. And when it was all broken up, which is nobody's fault,

it's just one of those things that happens, you get to miss the people that you sort of grew up with. But it's North Bay is where you're meeting them? I met Kevin and North Bay. Do you put them in your trunk and take them to Barry? What happened there? Tell me. No. After that experience,

I applied for a job at CKVR in the creative department. I became the senior guy in the creative department working for a wonderful man named Paul Miller. And, you know, I just, I worked there for about a year and I learned the craft. The cool thing about all of those, Sudbury, North Bay, and Barrie, first of all, I love all three of those cities. So I learned a little bit about the province and about some of the people in the province. The other thing is, really, there was no limits. You could learn anything at the smaller station. I learned how to edit.

I learned how to shoot. I learned how to write. That's what they say. That's where you can make your mistakes but learn. That's sort of like a farm team, if you will. It's almost like that. I mean, people always took their job seriously, but there was... Yeah, no offense to the lifers in those markets.

Exactly. What is it, the Bull Durham, the guy who had the minor league record for home runs? That's right. He wasn't very proud of that. Yeah. And I enjoyed my experience at all of those stations. And the thing it gave me was sort of an understanding of the operations of television. You know, later in my career, I moved out to film and then music video.

But I always came back to television. You know, my last guest, who you might know because there's a Zoomer connection there, but Richard Surrett. Have you ever met Richard Surrett? Okay, he does a conspiracy show on Zoomer connection there, but Richard Surratt. Have you ever met Richard Surratt? Okay. He does a conspiracy show on Zoomer. Oh, yeah. Of course. I've watched his show, but I have not met him.

Okay. It's a great show. He was sitting in the same seat you're in, and at the same point in the episode, I looked over, and I got a Walter White vibe from him. Okay. Not that he was mean. He's a nice man. But he looked to me like Bryan Cranston, the guy who plays Walter White.

So you might enjoy this next comment. I think you might. I'm getting a Don Draper vibe from you. Have you ever heard this before? No, I haven't. But that's cool. Because he claimed he never heard the Walter White, but I'm pretty good at this.

So later, we're going to get a photo. No pressure. No pressure. We get a photo later, and I'm going to ask on Twitter if anyone else got a Don Draper vibe from you. Right on. Which is,

by the way, that's the highest compliment. I've had some beautiful people. That's the highest compliment I've ever paid anybody in my life because he's a gorgeous man, Don Draper.

There you go. I'll take that vibe. You're too flustered to continue. I can play that CKVR jingle again, I feel like. You know, a funny moment also in the Bruce documentary. I don't know why the Bruce documentary keeps coming up, but we asked Bruce in the bus,

and we kept this in the doc. Somebody in the line said that he was Canada's Bob Dylan. And he said, well, that's great. It's better than being Canada's Bob Denver. That's true. That's better than being Canada's Bob Denver. That's true. That's right, Gilligan. Or John Denver. John Denver, because Bob Denver's Gilligan,

which is even funnier. Even funnier, no, no. John Denver. Because, you know, it's not looks comparison. It was musical comparison. Speaking of granola, I think he lived on granola as well, John Denver. Probably.

I think so. Look what happened to him. Let's put it this way. This is a life lesson for everyone listening. It's okay to fly your own plane. I know a lot of pilots. Don't build your plane and fly it. Leave that to the professionals who have spent their entire lives doing proper testing.

So don't build your own plane and fly it. That's all I want to say on that. And don't compare him to Bruce Gober. Or Gilligan, who gets a bad rap, but was a fantastic comedic actor. Come on. And showed up in Back to the Beach, which was a Frankie Avalon.

I love that movie. Yeah, so do I. Fishbone was in that movie. Everyone, Pee-wee's in that thing. Yeah, yeah. And at the beginning, I like it because how the son narrates at the beginning. It's a smart, funny movie. It's a great movie. Before Yeah, yeah. And at the beginning, I like it because how the sun narrates at the beginning. Like, it's a smart,

funny movie. It's a great movie. Before it gets old. And even the campies, the Connie Stevens, like, it's all that. And I'm too young for the surfer stuff,

but I knew it from, like, reruns or something. Me too. I used to watch reruns, and I love those surfer movies. Don Rickles was in some of them. Yes. But the highlight

of that movie for me was Fishbone and Funicello singing Jamaica Ska that was so cool, it was a great movie it did nothing, right? I don't know what it did, but I remember loving it yeah, me too it's funny that we ended up

and the chick from that, the daughter in that I believe ends up on Full House that's right and married to John Stamos I. Married to John Stamos. I'm getting a little John Stamos vibe from you. No, I'm just kidding. You wish. Come on, Don Draper's enough. I'll take Don Draper.

Don't get greedy. You're at CKVR in Barrie. Kevin Frankish is in your trunk. This is all happening. How do you end up on CFMT, where my next clip is from? There was, I heard it through the grapevine that they were looking for a pop culture host. And it was just one of those things I applied. And I applied through a guy named Alan Schwartz,

who became a very good friend of mine. He was doing PR there for a while. And he was the one who answered the phone. So he submitted my resume and tape. And I got a call from Vince Alexander a little while later and said, you got the gig. And is this the co-hosting of Something Else? That's correct. Okay. He's going to get a lot of mentions this episode, but Retro Ontario told me all about something else on a previous episode,

because I personally had no memory. Maybe I was too young. This is my thought on this. Could be. Because what years are we talking about for something else? Oh, boy, don't ask me years, because I get so confused. Actually, I know the answer.

85. 85 to 86. So this debuts in 1985 on CFMT, Channel 47, Cable 4. And I have some audio. So let's listen to some Something Else, and then we'll talk about that. Hi, and welcome to day two of Something Else. I'm Jay Gold here with my little buddy, Bogey, and we'd like to reiterate that Something Else is your show.

Give us a line. Oh, here you go, Bogey. Give us a call, drop us a line, let us know what you want to see on the show. In the weeks to come on Something Else, we'll be showing you a wide variety of features, what's happening on the streets of Toronto in music, theater, arts, and a whole lot more. So this is the debut of Jay Gold? That was the debut of Jay Gold. I have a few stories about that,

but I just want to talk about my co-host, who's the lovely, amazing Shirley McQueen, who went on to an incredible radio career, and she did some acting along the way as well, and I have nothing but great things to say about her. Talk about a cool way to kickstart your career on this wonderful little pop culture show with an amazing co-host surrounded by a lot of people who are still my friends to this day. It was a great experience.

Well, Shirley McQueen, I heard her all the time on Q107. And I mean, Q107 is like literally, I think it was last week, celebrated its 40th birthday. Yep. Shirley was in town. I believe they had a reunion party. She's a DJ in Edmonton now. And I wish I could remember the call letters of the channel. But she's just an incredible person. Cool. So, yeah, something else. And tell me, though, because I know you have a story here.

I sense it. I sense it. After 239 episodes, my spidey senses start tingling. So your name is Joel Goldberg, not as I referred to you at the SOC as Joel Goldstein. That's my next week's guest. You're Joel Goldberg.

You were known on something else as Jay Gold. Why? Tell me the story. Well, to me, you have to understand, you know, I was very young in my early 20s, and I got in this job, which was in the big smoke, doing what I wanted to be on air, pop culture, music, the things I wanted to, you know, this was my nirvana. So I get down there, we do a couple of practice runs, and then the producer comes up to me and says, well, you know, the powers that be upstairs want you to change your

name. And I said, well, no, I'm not going to change my name. So, you know, little by little, they chipped away at me, basically saying, you know, if you want to do this show, you change your name. So I said, okay, I'll change my name, and they changed it to Jay Gold. Years later, or not too much, say months later, as I was sending resume tapes to Moses Nimer and bugging the heck out of him, one of the things that he sort of glommed on, because he always, you know, he attacks things in ways that you don't understand, is how could you be at a multicultural, multilingual channel, and these guys are telling you to change your name? And so his idea was he was going to bring me to City TV and give Joel his name back.

Free you of sorts. That's a great story. I thought it was because I remember, I don't remember, when Bob Zimmerman when Bob Dylan, Bob Zimmerman becomes Bob Dylan. Don't call him Bob Denver. Bob Denver. Do we know, though, is he really a Bob Denver? Maybe it's Bob Horowitz or something. I don't know.

But this was common back in the day to I don't want to say lessen your Jewishness? Is that the term? Well, Jay Gold really doesn't lessen it, I don't want to say lessen your Jewishness. Is that the term? Well, Jay Gold really doesn't lessen it, I don't think. What they were saying is Jay Gold rolls off the tongue a lot easier. And, you know, it got to a point where, you know, I wanted the job so badly.

It's just like, okay, I'll do it. After something else got canceled, they did give me another show called Rockline, and they allowed me to change my name back to Joel Goldberg. And Rockline ran for about a half season. That's when I got the gig at Toronto Rocks. So Rockline was on CFMT?

That's correct. So I'm interested in this. My first memories of music videos are two shows. Video Hits with Samantha Taylor and Toronto Rocks with John Major and Brad Giffen. And those are the two shows, until Much Music showed up on Channel 29 on my television.

That's correct. One day it just showed up and it was great. So tell me though, is this predating, is something else predating those shows I mentioned? Yes. Well, it wasn't predating video hits. And I think Toronto Rocks was on the air by the time I was doing something else. Yes, Toronto Rocks was on the air. Samantha Taylor was actually on CFMT before us.

And she had a show there. And then she went to CBC, did video hits, which became a huge hit. And then John Major was doing Toronto Rock. So that was our competition at Something Else. And Vince Alexander, who was the producer of Something Else, what he wanted us to do was, and I think we did it, is be a little alternative. So we showed a lot of British stuff.

We showed Top of the pop stuff and the other thing he wanted was for us to uh do a lot more in the field so I did a lot a lot of field report I was sort of the tv guy and Shirley was the music guy you know she she was there for because of her knowledge of music where I was the guy with the television production background. Very cool. It was so much, I have to tell you, it was so much fun, that show. If I had been watching those types of programs in 85, I don't know how I missed this one. Like, what time of day did this air? Oh, God.

I know. You don't know years, but maybe, like, are we talking like an afternoon thing? Yeah, it must have been four to five because we were in direct competition with the others. I don't remember exactly. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was one of those things were very disappointing when they dismantled it. But, you know, I think it could have gone on, but it's one of those things that you have as a great memory. And it was a great kickstarter for my career and a great kickstarter for Shirley's career. Shirley went on to bigger and better things, and so did I. Well, if I remember that station well, CFMT, at some point it decided it wanted to do

like Married of Children syndicated reruns and go that route at some point. When I was there, I think they were trying to figure out what they wanted to do, but at a certain point they made a decision not to be in the music business. They said, that's CBC, that's City TV. At a certain point, they made a decision not to be in the music business. They said, that's CBC, that's City TV. Speaking of these devils here, let's hear this opening here. Brothers High School prepares for their winter carnival. Hot stuff. Brad here is like the most amazing singer. Milwaukee Toronto Rock on City TV. It's funny, we started this chat by playing Cleveland Rocks,

and here we are at Toronto Rocks. This is so much fun. Hearing all this stuff, it just brings back so many memories. It really is fun. We're nostalgia merchants, Retro Ontario and I. This is how he describes us now. Okay, so you were headhunted. Is that fair?

You were headhunted by Moses to come over to City TV and produce Toronto Rocks. I wouldn't say that. I was pretty aggressive in trying to get into that building. I mean, and even Christopher Ward put it in his book. I was, it was basically Nirvana for pop culture for music was 99 Queen, and that was Queen and Church at the old building. music was 99 Queen, and that was Queen and Church at the old building. So when Moses' J. Gold thing didn't work because the show was...something else was dismantled, I kept sending him reels and stuff

that I was doing and ideas, and finally he said, you know, all right, I think I got something for you. And he said...I had a meeting with him. He took me out to a diner across the street called the Red Sea. We called it the Dead Sea. And over lunch, I had a, I forgot what I had. You can't remember dates? You don't know what time? Toasted Western. I had a toasted Western.

Moses said, I want you to come on as the associate producer for Toronto Rocks. I'm looking for somebody to, you know, give it a little bit more production value and work with the producer, and the host at that time was John Major. You know, fast forward a little, I became the, Brad Giffen replaced John Major, and Mike Rhodes, who was the existing producer, moved on to Much Music, and I took over the show. So Brad and I took over the show, and it was a fantastic run.

I learned so much. Did you overlap with John Major, or did you come in as Brad was taking over? I overlapped. John was hosting when I was the associate producer. Gotcha. Then he moved on, and Brad Giffen took hosting when I was the associate producer. Then he moved on, and Brad Giffen took over when I was associate producer. And then when Mike Rhodes moved over

to Much Music, I became producer. So Brad and I became not only colleagues, but very good friends to this day. He's a wonderful, he's an amazing guy. He really is. Can you tell me a little bit about working with the late great John Major? John was incredible, and he was a legitimate star. You know, he'd walk through the hallways at City TV. He had that thing. You know, years later when I worked with Monica Diol at Electric Circus, I could say she had that same thing, that star quality. You look at them, and they're a star.

John was just a great guy, had time for everybody. I enjoyed working with him. I DM'd, that sounds dirty when I say it like that. I DM'd, I was DMing with Monica Duhol this week. No kidding. Because she threaded, she was coming by, like Friday at this time, I'm coming by. She was promoting a new line of like makeup or something with Sephora. And she was coming by. I still got the clips loaded in, all set. I do my homework. I'm with Brian Linehan of the podcasting industry.

You knew Brian? Brian, same thing. I have a story about Brian. Yeah, the Monica story is merely that she promises she's coming on. It's just she's really not in Toronto right now. She named all the places she has to go to the next month or whatever. But as soon as she's in Toronto,

she promises she's coming on. Brian Linehan story, please. Well, hopefully you get Monica. She's great. You love chatting with her. Linehan was a huge star. He was probably the biggest star when I started at City TV, and I was this sort

of nervous, skinny little kid coming in to a show that I had admired. Toronto Rocks, I admired it for so long, and now here I am, not only working on it, but an associate producer. I was running down the hallway to bulk some tapes or something, and Brian Linehan is in the hallway. He goes, hi, I'm Brian. What's your name? And I'm going, what? This is, I said, my name's Joel Goldberg. He said, I'm Brian. I work at the movie show. You know, if you ever need anything, please let me know. It's a pleasure to meet you. What a gentleman. You know, usually you think of these people as, you know, holier than thou, and they wouldn't talk to anybody,

but he was one of the sweetest, kindest people I've ever met. That tells me that he's the kind of person who would have come on Toronto Mic'd. Yes, he would have. There's two types, the kind that won't come on Toronto Mic'd and the kind that will. So we'd put him in that good bucket there. Cool.

So you're working with Brad on Toronto Rocks, and for some reason on Toronto Rocks. And for some reason, Toronto Rocks gets canceled. Yeah. Which I'm guessing is because of much music? That's correct. After we did it for a while, I mean, we had a huge amount of success with Toronto Rocks. Huge amount of success.

I remember when Duran Duran was on, we blocked off the traffic, the cops came, and that's what it was like on a regular basis and working with all these pretty big stars. We had Stevie Wonder. I mean, Helix was coming over. Helix and the Canadian stars as well. I mean, we had so many. I'm a Helix fan. No, I say this as a joke because

I always remember they played the Rock U was played on Toronto Rocks a lot. Great tune. Great tune. Well, I saw him, I just told this story to Hebsey. I don't know if you know Mark Hebsey. Yeah, of course.

I just met him, I was at Hyde Park biking, and he's like, what's the lead singer of Helix? What's his name again? I don't remember his name. Brian Vogue. He goes, oh, he was meeting up with that guy,

and I'm like, you know, they went to the park down the street and did a concert last summer, and I was there for the, guy, and I'm like, you know, they went to the park down the street and did a concert last summer. And I was there for the whole year. They did a free concert down the street last summer. Yeah, and I wouldn't miss it. Are you kidding me? Fantastic.

But, you know, imagine yourself. Here you are. You know, you're in your early 20s. You're doing this huge show, and we had a great run. Next thing you know, we're expanding. We got much music, and we're going down the street. We're going west. And that was one of the most disorganized moves

from a technical and practical viewpoint that anybody could ever do. There was a point when we were taking three-quarter-inch pneumatic tape players into the streetcar, and then taking the streetcar down and bringing them into it, because... That's a great visual, yeah. It is. If we didn't do that...

Because you're going from 99 Queen Street East, right, to 299 West. West, that's correct. Queen and John, where they are today. I mean, are they there today? I get confused with these. Yeah, CTV is there. Somebody went to Jane and Dundas,

but that was the Rogers guy. That's the CTV, yeah. The the Rogers guy. That's the City TV. The Bell Media guy stayed at Queen and John. But you are correct. Much music had already established itself by the time of that move, so anybody and everybody who watched music videos could watch it 24 hours a day. There's no longer that need to rush home at 3.30.

And it's the same parent company, right? It's not like you're competing with much. It's the cannibalism kind of, right? So it makes sense. Well, and also the ratings went down for Toronto Rocks because people had much music. So Moses, at that time, we experimented with a format with Lance Chilton as host,

and it had live music. We had some comedy and interviews. And I think it was nothing more than that was experimentation. We got to use the area that became Electric Circus and City Line, and we sort of figured out how to shoot there and that type of thing. The environment? Is that what Moses would call it? The environment, yeah. And then next thing you know, Moses said, I got an idea to replace Toronto Rocks.

I want to do a dance show. This is great because I watched this dance show. So this is the collective I envision being part of the birth of Electric Circus. So there's yourself, Joel Goldberg. Yep. John Martin. That's correct. Moses from The Mount on High.

And Kim Clark-Champness? Yes. You read the book, obviously. Actually, it was Moses. And that's the thing. Moses Neimer, people have to understand, he was the man who came up with the ideas for everything. He's a visionary, right? He is, and he's my mentor, and it's been an absolute honor and a privilege to work with him.

It was his idea to come up with the dance show. Moses disappears for a while, and people don't know, or back then he did, and people don't know where he goes. But, you know, he hits his world experience. He goes for a walk in Hyde Park. I think he walks along Greater Deer Pond. He does do that. But he came back and said, we're going to do this dance show. And I was not into the dance scene at that point.

Or now. Well, some dance music I liked. A lot of it I didn't. I was sort of lukewarm to the idea. I really wanted to move over to much music at that time. But John Martin actually was the guy who convinced me. He said, look, you're the guy, we need to do this, you know that space, please do it. And we had creative meetings with Moses, and he really dictated exactly what he wanted. Where KCC, my buddy Kim Clark

Champness comes in, another wonderful, amazing human being, we figured out the name of the show over drinks. It was me, myself, Kim, and John Martin, and I can't remember the name of the place, but we used to go there all the time. We got smashed. This is the place that was at this Christopher Ward book launch. It was referenced many times. Yes. John had a phone there? Yeah, that was the friar.

That's the friar. That's the friar. I think it might have been at the friar or somewhere. I do remember we got really drunk that night. When we got really drunk, it was hard for me to understand what John said because he had a very thick British accent.

And all I remember was the conversation came up, and we wanted to figure out a name to pitch to Moses for the show. And within the body of that drunken conversation, Clark Chabniss came up with Electric Circus, because that's what 99 was. It was a notorious after-hours dance place. And then once you hear it, it's like, that's the name. Yeah. And most is usually like TV after most of the movie TV, media TV, fashion TV. And I said, I don't know if that'll work. But I pitched it to him the next day, very hungover. And he liked it. He liked the connection to history, so he approved it. The other thing I remember that night is John Martin stiffed us for the drink, so I had to pay.

I had to pick up the bill. I asked him the next day, jokingly, if I could write it off, and he just laughed. Okay, so John Martin has passed away. Yes. Tell me, what was it like? Because I'll be honest, and when I have Ziggy on, I'll discuss this a little further, but Ziggy didn't present the typical warm and fuzzies for John Martin at that launch. No. And if you read Christopher's book, you're going to have to talk to Zig about that. He could be very harsh on her. And Ziggy and I had, I think we had a stigma to attach to us, because we were hired by Moses. And there are a few others that were like that, and we had, because that hired by Moses stigma on us, we really had to work doubly, triply hard

to prove ourselves. And John was very hard on Ziggy because, as Moses does, he casts people who he thinks will relate to the viewer at home, not necessarily because they have a broadcast background, and they went to Ryerson, and they worked for 10 years, and then they came. They present like an authenticity, if you will. That's a great way of putting it. Thank you. That is. That's why I host a podcast. And that's what Moses wanted. So, you know, as you say, you'll have to talk to Ziggy about that. My experience with John was I really, really, really had to work very hard to gain his trust and prove myself, and I did.

Now, John's no longer with us, but Moses and Kim Clark Champness are both healthy, knock on wood. Just curious for my own records here, do you think those two would be willing to come on Toronto Mic'd? Which bucket would I stick them in? They'd come on Toronto Mic'd or they won't come on Toronto Mic'd?

I think both of them would. Why wouldn't they? That's great. KCC for sure. You going to help me make that happen? Absolutely. Absolutely. KCC.

You'll have them here tonight. He is fascinating. Well, I heard him talk at this book launch I mentioned five times now. And yeah, I would love to have Kim Clark Chapman on. Wasn't he in that horror movie, right, as a boy? Right. Which one, The Killing of the Corn? Corn, yeah, but the British version.

Right. Now, he's writing a book. Well, then he's going to want to come on and promote that book. His experience here is incredible. I mean, he started up in Northwest Territories. Whoa. Yeah. They got television up there?

I think he was working for Hudson's Bay. You'll have to read the book, I guess. Yeah, the beaver pelts, I think. This is in the 1500s, if I remember. I'm going to get KCC on. You're going to help me make that happen. No worries. And then, by the way,

I know it may be more difficult, but we've got to get Moses on this show. Come on. I have to tell you, I wouldn't have a career without Moses. I would not have a career without Moses Neimer. Or I would have a career. You'd be doing what? What's the chick I keep seeing on CFMT all the time?

Oh, my goodness. An Italian descent, a woman who does between shows, she does bumper stuff. Oh, yeah, she's been there for a long time. I almost called her Ziggy, but she can't be a Ziggy. We have a Ziggy. Something, Lucy. Lucy, yeah, yes, yes.

You could have been Lucy. Well, the thing is, I'm a hard worker. I do have some talents. I think I would have had a career, but working for Moses, I had a career, you know? Yeah, for sure. And I've traveled all over the world. I've done so many different things under his umbrella.

And the experience I've had under that umbrella has helped me in the independent projects that I've done. He's a brilliant guy. And if you're patient, you can learn so much from him. I'm trying to keep it chronological. Let me play this before I forget. We are live every weekend from 299.3

Street West it's the Canada's only dance TV show hi I'm Monica Dio and this is Electric Circus it's the hottest dance club in town, the Electric Circus, Saturday and Sunday at 3.30 on City.

There's the voice there, speaking of late greats. What kind of guy was Mark Daly? He was one of the most wonderful people in the world, and he was another Ohio boy from Youngstown, Ohio. So you bonded with him. I loved Mark, and he would do anything for you if you needed a voiceover or anything that you needed, and he could help you with, he would. Now, I won't dwell on this because I get hate mail when I do.

I don't want any more hate mail. I don't like it. This is a – you're a Blue Jay fan, are you? I said that like I assume you're a Cleveland Indian fan that's right you're a big fan of Edwin Encarnacion's

new team okay so Dalton Pompey who's just recovered from an injury I saw he was playing in the minors working his way back

to big club this is his dad who you would know better as of course the cowboy cowboy Kendrick right Kendrick

Kendrick I don't think there's a D in there it fooled me at first, too. So you remember, is it fair to say he was the most known of those early dancers? I think so. The cool thing about Electric Circus was we had, at the beginning, it was very, very hard because we had sort of a nerdy reputation,

this little dance show that was happening. And it was very hard to get street cred in the dance community. But we had a handful, like 10 people who were hardcore electric circus dancers. Kenrick was, yes, absolutely the most well-known. He made Kenrick posters, and he started marketing himself as a dancer and as a personality. The results, I'm listening to the results. Summertime, summertime.

That's right. This is great, 1992. Yep. Just a great guy. And there's a handful of regulars we had. Scorpio. And I'm so grateful to those people because they were so loyal. And through them uh we built the

show and it got more and more popular so by the time i handed the torch off to sharon kavanaugh we had enough street credibility uh to to expand the show and that's what sharon did you know i get a lot of credit for electric circuscus, but really, Sharon took that show and she multiplied it by 10. But you gave birth. I gave birth. Brought it into the world. Yeah, once again,

I was sort of the TV guy and I depended on Monica. It's time you start taking full credit for every aspect of the birth of Electric Circus. Well, I'm very proud of it

because it ran for 20 years and it was one of the highest rated shows and we were laughed at at the beginning by people both inside the building and outside the building. They thought we were a joke, and we proved them wrong. And that always, with that little team, it always makes me very proud.

Little Birdie tells me that in the very, or like the first few episodes, so we, of course, Monica Diol, longtime host of Electric Circus, but the original co-host was Michael Williams. That's right. Little Birdie tells me that they didn't get along. Can you elaborate?

Can you speak to that in any sense? They had some moments, yes. Is he from, where is Michael Williams from? Cleveland, Ohio. He's my homeboy. There you go. I love Michael. And Michael was very, very helpful in the beginning because that guy knows music upside down, inside out.

I was also very lucky that Monica knew dance. She was very, very, very ingrained in dance music. She was a DJ in Winnipeg. She was a musician. So she helped a lot. But Michael helped me program. And, you know, the way Moses wanted much music done, as well as Electric Circus, is programming it almost like a radio show. So, you know, you have to worry about pacing and making sure that there's a good variety

of music. And one day, Michael came up to me and said, he looked at the, he's got this attitude sometimes, you got to love with Michael. He looked at the sheet that I had put together, and he went like this. You got to do it with the visual too. And I said, well, what's wrong, Michael? He goes, what do you have new kids on the block for? Or whatever it was. And I said, you know, I thought, it's hip. The kids like it. Exactly. And he scratched it out, and he writes something down, gives me the paper, and I looked down, and it was ACDC. And I can't remember which one it was, but I said, Michael, I chased after it. What are you talking about? He goes, thunderstruck, wasn't it? It might have been. He goes, trust me, just do it. And we

did it, and of course, this dance crowd, it blew their minds. They loved it. But yeah, Michael, Monica, I don't know, Salt. I mean, that happens. I mean, sometimes, rarely, but I'll meet somebody, we just don't jive. Maybe that's what happened there.

Well, and I think it was also, Michael was very passionate at that point about developing Rap City and Soul in the City, which were his real passion projects. And he was so he's a VJ. He's doing his shifts. He's doing electric circus and he's trying to develop these shows. And it didn't happen. It was just too much. So he went on to develop two incredibly successful shows,

Rap City and Soul in the City, while still doing his shifts. I got called up to Moses' office one day, and he showed me a picture, and the picture was Monica D'Olonge and George Lagagenis. And Moses looked at me and said, what do you think? I said, I think they're both beautiful. This is a modeling shoot. And he said, congratulations, that's your new co-host. And the rest is history.

That's the other thing, too. And it should be mentioned that Moses is the one who cast Monica, not me. I met her after Moses had already vetted her out and was called up to his office, and that's the first time I met her. Is there any truth to the rumor that Moses had Monica change her spelling to a K instead of a C in Monica? I completely made that up. I was about to say, I have no clue about that. Is that true? Did he do that? Just to give it a little more...

It's believable, right? Come on. It isn't, though, with Moses. No, because it wasn't real. Yeah, when you go back to my Jake Old story, and what Moses did at City TV and at Much Music was his on-air people reflected the city. His on-air people at Much reflected the country. He always had people of color. He always had everybody's welcome,

everybody belongs sort of attitude. Even socks. Even socks. So anything that he would have done, he would never change the spelling of somebody's name. No, I see. I'm married to a Monica with a C. So when I see these Monicas of a K, it's so exotic.

It's like, oh, look at that. Monica of a K. Now you, okay. So in front of me, this is a podcast. No one can see it, but I'm looking at Maestro Fresh West 12 inch of Let Your Breath. I'm just wondering where to put this story. I'm going to put it here and then we're going to come back and talk about Ziggy. But, I mean, you met a lot of,

you met a lot of, like, hip-hop and soul and R&B artists during these early years of Electric Circus. That was pretty cool. And that era, I loved the hip-hop of that era. You know, Cool Moe D, Ice-T, who came on our show, LL Cool J. That was sort of, I liked that type of rap.

That's the rap that I loved. Well, did you, I don't have any memory. Did Public Enemy ever make an appearance? Yes, yes. P.E., I don't think they performed, but they were on much and they came over very quickly. Yeah, and you mentioned Cool Moe D. And off the top, I can only remember I go to work.

This is all I can remember from today. I go to work, yeah. Like a doctor. Yeah, and I liked the rap even before that, like Sugar Hill Gang I go to,. This is all I can remember from today. I go to work. Like a doctor. Yeah. And I liked the rap even before that. Like Sugar Hill Gang, I go to. Rock Steady Crew. The early, early rap. Grandmaster Flash, Beastie Boys.

That's the stuff that I liked. And I was sitting at my desk one day, and this posse comes up. They said, Joel, somebody's here to meet you. And I said, back in the old days of City TV, just say, yeah, let them in. You don't have, somebody's here to meet you. And I said, you know, back in the old days of City TV, just say, yeah, let them in. You don't have to put any security stuff on you or anything like that. The good old days. And in walks Farley Flex, then known as Farley Friedel, and Wes Williams. And they said, we want to go on Electric Circus. I said, great. You know,

what do you have to show me? And they said, we've just completed a music video. Really? And I said, great. What's it on? Three-quarter inch? You mad? So we went to the viewing room, and it was called I'm Showing You, and I'm telling you, my head exploded.

I said, this kid's like an 18-year-old kid from Scarborough. Where did he get these chops? And even then, the video was very low budget. I think Wes's mother loaned him some money to do it. But even then, he had the tuxedo, he had the girls holding French horns,

and he had the whole maestro gig. But I don't know if you ever heard that track. I'm showing you. I can't remember hearing it. It's amazing. I don't know if it's on YouTube. Look, I'll go straight to Wes if I have to. I'm now on a direct connection.

There you go. But it blew me away, and I said right away, yes, come on, come on, for sure. They did one performance, and I called them, and I wanted them to do another performance. And Wes was reluctant. Farley, I think, at that point had to convince him to come on, or I called him and convinced him.

Because he was like me. He's like an electric circle. It's a dance show. And I had to list on my fingers all the amazing rap acts. And you reminded him, he's got Easy Does It and Does It Easy. Come on, you've got dancers in your posse. That's right.

And they were amazing. And I can't remember when they were, they used to be called Act One and Act Two. Act One, Act Two. And then they became Easy Does It and Does It Easy. And I can't remember which came first, but they're the same guys. Act One, Act Two. They were with the Dream Warriors. You sure?

Yeah, pretty sure. Because Lou told this story. This is nothing, but I'm at this concert last night. I got there really early and they had a DJ named DJ Oreo, like the cookie, okay? And he's spinning tracks.

It's great because everybody knows the words to everything and the whole 16,000 young people just singing in unison. It was real cool, rapping in unison. But then they had a rapper come on. This was before Chance the Rapper

and his name was King Louie, okay? Oh boy, that's close. King Louie, right? Yeah. And I'm like, I said to my daughter, I said, it's not going to be King Louie. Okay? Oh, boy. That's close. King Louie, right? Yeah. And I'm like, I said to my daughter, I said, it's not going to be King Lou

from Dream Warriors. Of course it's not. But I told her about Capital Q and King Lou. I love the Dream Warriors. And I love them too. I did two projects with them, two videos,

and King Lou is one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life. He's just a bright, bright, well-read guy. Way smarter than King Louie. Time will tell. Time will tell. I don't want to piss on King Louie. He might be great one day.

He could be the next great one. But the bottom line is we did convince Wes to come back on, and that's when history was made. That's when the course of pop culture in Canada was changed because Stevie B was on the show. Stevie B was as blown away as I was, called his bosses at LMR Records, said, you got to sign this kid,

and the rest is history. This is a throwdown, a showdown. Hell no, I can't slow down. It's going to go. I had to drop that. Okay, yeah, you know, I had, and I spoke to you on the phone before Maestro came on because I'm Brian Linehan. I had and I spoke to you on the phone

before Maestro came on because I'm Brian Linehan I had to do some research and you were really helpful by the way to give me the backstory so I could prompt him on this DVB and everything

but a fantastic origin story like how he breaks and we all saw on Much Music a million times the video for Let Your Backbone Slide do you have any idea like how came to be, this video?

I know you had to play it over there, but do you have any sense of the origin story for that video? Let Your Backbone Slide? Yeah. Well, that was maybe the second or third video that I did. The first video I ever did was... Wait, you directed Let Your Backbone Slide? I directed it, I produced it, and I edited it.

So you gave birth to Electric Circus, and you directed and produced and did everything for Let Your Backbones Lie video. Which really I'm very proud of because all of us together collectively, but of course Wes up front, changed pop culture in Canada. Wait, what was the first video you ever produced or directed?

The first video I ever directed was 89 Out of My House Roach by the Shuffle Demons. How long does this go on for, Joel? Do you mind me? There you go. Was that your idea? The bass kicks in now. Love the demons.

They had this Fadina Bus song. Yeah. And they did the great cover of Hockey Night in Canada. They sure did. That's great. Well, I was sort of a PA camera op on Spadina Bus, which was directed by a friend of mine, John Gunn. And it was a very successful video.

And then when they did the next one, Rich Underhill, who I'd become very good very good friends with called me up and said we'd like you to do the next video because we had been throwing around ideas I never done a video before and it's sort of I started hiring people and those people who I hired start work with me on about my next 10 or 12 videos. Paul Sarasi, who's the director of photography, who went on to do a lot of Adam McGuigan's films and much more. Kurt Swinghammer, who's a local legend as a musician and as an art director. For my first 10 videos, it was always Kurt's artwork and then Sharon Cavanaugh who was my compatriot over at Electric Circus worked as sort

of the associate producer on a lot of the music videos but we had this whole team of people who became friends and and associates. Out of My House Roach won the CASB award for best indie video of the year which is one of the... associates. Out of My House Roach won the Casby Award for Best Indie Video of the Year, which is one of the... Wow. I was so proud of that

because it's voted on by the people, people, just viewers, and I ended up doing about five videos with the Demons after that.

Oh, very cool. And they're still my friendsons after that. Very cool. And they're still my friends to this day. Good people. Stitch Winston, the drummer, and Richard Underhill are the only two

original members left. But Perry White's been with them for a long time. And George Kohler, the bass player, I've worked with on a bunch of David Clayton Thomas projects,

among other things. He's a wonderful, wonderful guy and arguably one of the best, most unique bass players I've ever heard. David Clayton, since you mentioned him, his PR representative said I could do a phoner with him.

Cool. I know, but I didn't, I said not now. But that's a mistake, right? Because he's not going to come in my basement, but he's willing to do a phoner. But you just mentioned the name. It's funny because this conversation just happened because Fred Penner's coming over

and they're represented by the same people or something. Well, David is one of the nicest people I've ever met, and he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. And not just smart, music smart. This guy, who had a rough upbringing, is one of the most well-read, well-rounded people I've ever met. He knows pop culture.

He knows media. You can talk to him about anything. And I've been honored to work with him on his last few albums. I've done the EPKs for him, the promo material for him. And the most amazing part is to walk into the studio and watch these guys work, you know, George Kohler producing and playing bass and David producing and singing. And they

make it look so easy. His last album, by the way, everybody should get every David Clayton Thomas album ever made. I'm a huge fan, but it's nice working with your heroes, you know? Oh, yeah. Over my last few years, David and Bruce Coburn and Donnie Walsh from Downchild. But David's last album is called Canadiana, and he does remakes of songs written by Canadians.

It's one of the most brilliant albums I've ever heard. Canadiana. I would check that out for sure. That sounds cool. He does a reggae version of Heart of Gold. He does a Latin version of Closer to the Heart. Like, who does a Rush cover? I can't even picture a Latin version of Closer to the Heart.

It's brilliant. And, you know, I didn't know this before working with David, but there's a huge Cuban community here of musicians. I didn't know that. They're all in Miami, I thought. No, there's a lot of them in Toronto. And David is so well-connected to everybody. This album, to me, it's a microcosm of our city. And David gets the best musicians to come together, amazing arrangers. And you got to get the album. I sort of sound like a K-Tel guy, but I really love that album that much.

Get it now. Yeah, so you mentioned the Shuffle Demons, the first video out of my house. Roach. Roach. And then that wins a Casby Award, which is great. I had David Marsden here. We learned about the Casby Award, which is great. I had David Marsden here. We learned about the Casby Awards.

Yeah, fantastic. And then, meanwhile, you mentioned the Maestro deal. Yes. So you're the director of the Bletch Backbone Slide video. And although Dwight Drummond has told the story, Dwight Drummond, who was, I don't know, hanging around City TV, he says he was a security guard.

That's nonsense, right? He's too small. He started as a security guard. No, Dwight's a pretty big guy. Is he? Yeah. I felt like I was his size, and I feel I'm a small guy.

Yeah, no, no. But he was a security guard, but then he did make his way in. I think he was a production assistant when I started hiring him. I started hiring him when we did, when we did Toronto Rock remotes. So Dwight would come on as a PA on those shoots. And he was a great guy.

And then I would tell him, you know, I'm starting to branch out into music video. And he'd put his hand up and he'd come and volunteer and work as a PA on those shoots. And that's one of my favorite fun facts, which is you can see Dwight Drummond, current host of the 6 o'clock CBC Toronto News, the only host because partner leaves for the CTV morning show and they don't replace Anne-Maria Medueke. Yep. And yeah, that's a great Dwight Drummond fun fact.

He's a wonderful, wonderful guy. A very smart guy too. It's a great Dwight Drummond fun fact. He's a wonderful, wonderful guy. A very smart guy, too. And he is in the opening scene. Yes. As well as being a kid. And they're running up the stairs.

Yes. I was in the opening scene, too. One of the things Wes and I always did was very Hitchcockian. I made a cameo in all the videos. Can I tell you? Okay. So for those who don't know, you also direct Drop the Needle video. That's right.

Which is another, because After Let Your Backbone Slide is played every hour on Much Music. The same is true for the Drop the Needle video. And they do a spoof on, of course, Geraldo Rivera. They break into the vault of Capone, couldn't find Jack,

so they all went home. This is a very, by the way, a very timely statement. I remember this, but I'm sure kids in here are like, what are you talking about today? But you played, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you play Joaldo Herrera? That's right. The Geraldo Rivera type in the Drop the Needle video.

That was me. That was me. Joaldo Herrera. And Drop the Needle, again, Drop the Needle wins. You won a CASB for the Shuffle Demons, but then you up it here. I don't know about that. Maybe I'll be careful how I say that. But for the Maestro's Drop the Needle video, you win a Juno Award. That's right.

That's crazy. Yeah, that was a wonderful evening in Vancouver. And I have a clip here, and I don't remember. I'm going to play this not remembering what this is because I realize now that I could do six hours with you. I know you don't have that kind of time. So let me play the clip and then we'll talk about what the hell it is. I don't remember. I'm enjoying myself. Let's go as long as you want.

And then I can ask, why didn't I name this right? But this is, in 1990, the Canadian Music Video Awards, did you win something there? Yes, that was for Let Your Backbone Slide. I won the first ever People's Choice Awards, which is another one that I'm very proud of because it's the people who voted for it.

Well, let's listen to that then. Okay. We're going to introduce the popular choice winners. Male, female, and group. Watch the video monitor at home. Watch your TV sets. Your votes, your 50 cents, your 900 number calls.

You picked them. This is Dan Gallagher. Late grade, Dan. They're all late grade. Look at this. Well, here's the gentleman that pieced it all together. As a matter of fact, from Meister Fresh West. We've always been a big fan of his because he's worked very closely, oddly enough.

And again, the 900 numbers, you guys, you picked it. We just happen to be a big fan of his. His name is Joel Goldberg. He's the producer of the video. He's the director of the video. Wow. Thank you, Canada. Merci.

Very quickly, I'd like to thank LMR Records, Attic Records, Moses Neimer and John Martin, everybody at MuchMusic, and everybody at Steely J Productions, Paul Sarasi, Kurt Swinghammer, Sharon Cavanaugh. Hey, thanks, Bobby. That was Bobby Wiseman of Blue Road. You're taking a picture. Who am I forgetting?

Oh, yeah, the Maestro Fresh West Posse, all those guys. I'll see you guys tomorrow. He didn't thank Dwight Drummond, I noticed. But he didn't. Did he show up? He did show up. He said he dropped the needle.

He's in there, too, or no? Yes, he's... Did he show up? Oh, he did show up. He said he dropped the needle. He's in there too? Or no? Yes, he's one of the guys at the vault, running around the vault. Couldn't find Jack, so they all went home, as I recall. My vault could never be opened because I locked it. But it was locked and they still got in. So I don't know if that's going to help you, Maestro. I'm not going to pick apart your lyrics there.

But that's fantastic. So you won a CMVA award in 1990 for... MMVA. Yeah, whatever that thing is you won. I won four or five of those, I think. And dropped the needle, won you the Juno Award. That's right. Okay, I think I'm all set now. I think I'm all caught up. So meanwhile, concurrently,

post-Electric Circus, you did a project, you worked with Ziggy closely on something. That's correct. Moses Neimer came up to me one day and said, we're having trouble. There was one point in the afternoon where I went from the afternoon movies to the next show, which might have been the news so long ago. But all I know is that it was following a movie. Now, movies come in, and they're different lengths. So he said, I need a flexible show there, and I want you to sit down with Ziggy and come up with something.

He goes, I want Ziggy to host it. And so Ziggy and I sat down, threw around some ideas, pitched them to Moses. It was going to be a soft rock show called Mush Music, which most of the people at Mush Music at the time hated. They hated the idea. But once again, I'm the guy who's doing electric circus. Now I'm going to do Mush Music. And the cool thing about Mush Music, which I loved, was every day he went in, it was a live show, and some days it could be six minutes long,

some days it could be almost two hours long. So it was really, you know, you had to really think on the fly. So, you know, you'd have one or two days notice to the length, but anything could happen, because it depended on the type of movies they were running. Right. But I had a blast with that show. And it was the first time Ziggy was hosting something on her own.

She went on to become a much music VJ as well. But one thing about Ziggy, you were telling, and I'll tell this story. And this story is an example of how Moses manages. And the guy, he's brilliant. Ziggy was missing some shows. I don't know why. I'd asked her, I'd say, Zig, what's going on? Because I love her and she loves me. What's going on? She's had a lot of stuff going on in her life then. I think she was moving to a new house and blah, blah, blah. I don't know what was going on, but it was getting very frustrating. A couple of times she just didn't show up.

So we had to do, we just ran sort of romantic quotes and then romantic videos. And so I got fed up, and I went to Moses, and I said, Moses, Ziggy, you know, this week, I don't know what it was. She hasn't shown up for two shows. Can we do something? And he said, what?

She hasn't? Because this is, let's, next time she comes in, bring her up to the office. So I brought her up to the office thinking here, you know, she's going to get it from the executive producer now, and everything is going to, you know, be cool. She's going to be read the riot act. She's going to have to come in. So Moses looks at her and, and I kid you not, he looks at her and goes, Ziggy, Moses looks at her and, I kid you not, he looks at her and goes, Ziggy, Ziggy, Ziggy, Ziggy, Ziggy. And he kept doing that and he started laughing and he goes, sit down, Ziggy. And then he looked at me and said, okay, Mr. Producer, how are we going to fix this? I was dumbfounded. And then, you know, there's a sense of logic about all of it. It's like, dude, this is your

responsibility. It's not Ziggy's responsibility. You're overseeing the show. You're producing it. So he's, after I calmed down a little, he said, sit down, let's figure out a way to, to get this straightened out. So this was our, our, our solution was we were going to get a limo to pick Ziggy up every day at her house. The pink house. Is this the pink house? That's Life on Venus Avenue. Right, that's another show. Which was also a cool show.

And we did. I called the limo company. I thought, you know, this is ridiculous. But the limo company, for free, every day, would pick Ziggy up. And this is, you know, the way Moses' mind worked, it worked out well for everybody. The limo company ended up getting a contract with Citi, and they started, you know, taking some people to the airport or whatnot. And not only that, Ziggy got to the show every day on time, and we started shooting segments in the limo as well. Yeah, I remember this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have a challenge, if you will,

and then you make lemonade from these lemons. Right, and that's why I say when you work with Moses and work for Moses, if you check your ego at the door, as they say, and be very calm, you can learn a lot of stuff. Let's hear some mush. Was there a lot of confusion in the hallways where someone's yelling about mush music

and they said, much music, and there's, you know what I mean? I notice I have to accentuate the mush. Not there a lot of confusion in the hallways where someone's yelling about mush music and they said much music and there's, you know what I mean? I notice I have to accentuate the mush. Not that I remember. Maybe it's just confusion in my head. Let's hear it. Oh man, where'd you get this stuff? Not that much romantic. I don't know what it is.

Remember that we're Canada's number one forum for such romantic video, and we'll be back with more of it right after this. Okay, Z, good throw. Aw, thanks. We got two minutes, relax. City TV realizes that there is an alternative audience out there for music. They want to hear their type of music.

That's why every day from 3 to 4 we present Mush Music, which features the best and soft and romantic middle of the road videos. Then on the weekends we open the doors here at 299 Queen Street West and we turn City TV into Toronto's hottest dance club with the electric circus. I know where that's from now, that was a promo tape that was called A Day in the Life of City TV. And it took you through the programming day. And so they had me do that stand-up to talk about mush music

and electric circus. I do remember that. I dug deep into the crates for that one. Yeah, I don't know where you're getting this stuff, man. You got to know P.I. That's half the battle

is knowing the right people. Come on. Ziggy knows that. You got to get to know Moses and then you'll be fine. Absolutely. So, okay. So you're directing the videos. You also did Mishy Me, right? Another person who I love. She was signed to Atlantic Records. And remember, all these acts, the early wave of rap were not signed by Canadian record companies. Mishy,

she had a deal in New York for Atlantic Records. Maestro was in New York for LMR Records. They had record companies up here that would distribute them. And Dream Warriors were signed by Island Records. Yeah, that's really cool. I got a platinum record from Island Records in my office. Ludi. No, that was for sales for the Now the Legacy Begins. Yeah, but Ludi's on there. Yes, yes. Okay, yeah, sorry. Ludi is on there.

But yeah, I mean, I like that band, but I remember the video hits, the ones that video hits, the much music hits definitely were Wash Your Face in Your Sink was the first one. Wash Your Face in My Sink, yeah. And then My Definition was a massive one. And then Ludi was like, came up.

I loved doing Ludi. We were in St. Kitts with a crew of 18 people. You could probably do that video now with a crew of five or six, but it was massive and it was fun. So now in your work with Moses, you're sent to some horrible locations, like some terrible places like Helsinki and Bogota and Barrie, Ontario. Tell me about this.

Well, I left after Electric Circus just to do music videos and start my own production company. And after about doing that for three or four years, I got a call from Partners, which was and still is, I guess, a huge commercial production house. So I started directing commercials and continued to do music videos. I did a lot of music videos. I worked with Amy Skye and Colin James. A lot of... I had so much fun. So Colin James, did you do the Why'd You Lie video? No, no, that was a good video. I don't know who did that one. I was going to give you credit for it anyways. I did Shirley, and I did

Breaking Up the House from his Little Big Band album. A lot of my videos are just funny and colorful with a sense of humor to them. I think when people wanted that, that's when I was approached.

I never really marketed myself that well. And then when I was doing commercials at Partners, I sort of liked it. You can't really get attached to a commercial creatively. So my music video experience, where the director is sort of the king of the hill, and with most of them, I was doing the editing as well. And so I had a lot of control.

With commercials, you're just a part of the puzzle. And it's an amazing, amazing industry. But I got a call from Marcy Martin to come back, ask me to come back to help develop a show called Ooh La La, which is a sister show to fashion television. It was a younger, funkier show. And I did that for a few years. And it was great. And I was directing comics at CBC at the time. So I was sort of freelancing. And then Moses called me, said, Joel, go upstairs and speak to this guy named Steve Tapp. And I did, and Steve Tapp was heading Chum Television International.

And next thing I know, I became the director of creative and production services for Chum International, and I was sent around the world to help develop and build City TV and Much Musics. And around the world and Barrie, Ontario. Yes, yes. Yes. Ironically, they sent me back up to Barrie and some of the northern Ontario chum channels to

rebrand them under Moses. Which rebrand is this? Because I remember so many rebrands. The new VR. Moses came up with something in Ontario called the new net. London was the new PL. in Ontario called the New Net. London was the new PL. Barry was the new VR.

And I thought it was a great idea because the salesman could sort of sell it as a network. Barry, when we did that rebrand, it was the number one for a while. It was the number one independent station in the country.

That was the Andy Griffith show reruns. Yeah, probably. I don't remember about the... They had Raptor games there too, right? They did. The Raptors started on Barry. That's right. Lots of fun facts. Well, Moses doesn't like sports, but that one, he said, you know what? It's sort of urban. It sort of

hits our mandate, so we'll do that. I don't remember how many years, but that was fun. Yeah, I remember it. I don't remember how many years, but that was fun. Yeah, I remember it. I don't remember how many years either, but I do remember that. And now it looks, it's funny when you think about it now, but yeah, so we had Raptor Games on the new VR. And then they sent me to, also Moses sent me to Alberta because he bought the provincial education channel called Access TV,

and my job was to go out there, rebrand it, restaff it, help restaff it, and then we built that from that one channel to four channels because Core TV Canada grew out of that, Canadian Learning Television grew out of that, and Book TV Canada grew out of that. So now I'm sort of a production executive overseeing the production and creative for all these channels.

It was a lot of fun. Now, what happens with Moses and Chum International in 2003? Because he's... Is he fired? Oh, was it? No, it wasn't 2003. I thought it was 2006. And it wasn't international. It was Chum Television. It was the corporation. I don't know what happened. All I know is that after, you know, 30 years, they let him go. The one thing that I do know, and I was very honored about, is that part of his agreement is that when he did leave,

that there would be some kind of documentary done about him, and he picked me to produce it. And I was incredibly honored, and we did this cool show called Moses TV, where we got a whole, a table of folks from his past to sit down with him, get drunk, eat some food, and reminisce. And it's called Moses TV, and there's a 90-minute version of it, and it's one of the best projects I ever was involved with. I loved it. And ironically, it was the first project that I did where I didn't have to get his approval. That's right. He doesn't see it until it's done. Yeah, and he was very, very concerned about that. I got a few phone calls from him, but I did, when it was over, I got a wonderful email from him saying that it was a little bit more

maudlin than he thought, but he watched it with a group of friends and they all loved it. That's great. That's great. Moses TV. Yes. That's great. You can show me the bootleg later. Can you tell me a little bit about George Shavalo, the work you did to honor George Shavalo? My friend Scott Dobson, who's another independent producer, and I both live in the Junction area.

I sort of live smack dab between High Park and the Junction. And Scott was involved through Anna Bayau, who's an amazing counselor at City Hall, in this new community center. So we were at the Indy Ale House one night and throwing around ideas about what to do about this, how I can get involved, because I was interested in getting involved as well. And we were thinking about famous people from our area, you know, that junction area. And the one name that came up that stuck was George Shavalo, who still is active in that

area. Muhammad Ali could not knock him out. No. 30 rounds with Muhammad Ali. Never was him out. No. 30 rounds with Muhammad Ali. Never was knocked down. It's incredible. And he's a great human being, obviously had some very horrible struggles in life.

His son's committed suicide. His wife did as well. And just between that, the advocacy work that he's done, the anti-drug work that he's done, going to schools, and his incredible boxing history, we thought it would be a great thing to name the center after George Chiavallo. So it was my first experience at City Hall, and Anabiao sort of guided us through it. We met the wonderful people who run the center, and it got through. I still have the

video of the vote. John Tory was the one who... That's great. No, that's great. The club is named after George Chiavallo today. Yes, and I think because it's construction, you never can tell, but it looks like there's going to be a spring

2018 opening, and we will be having a couple of fundraisers before that, hopefully. Oh, very cool. Good job, Derek. Very good. Now, we already talked about how you directed Drop the Needle, but there's kind of an exciting recent honoring by TIFF, right? Yes.

So I'm going to read this title. It is one of the 150 essential works in Canadian cinema history. Yes. That's like, really? Like, this wicked awesome Maestro Fresh West video gets to be, I'm not even, no, I'm not trying to take anything away from you here.

I'm not going to go call up Tiff and say, take this away. But that's pretty impressive for a music video, right? I was at a cottage with my family when I opened up that. What did you think was a mistake? Like, is it possible they got the wrong Joel Goldberg? I was shocked because I said, oh, the cool thing about it is that it's not, it's TIFF, but it's not just films.

They do films, documentaries, moving picture works, commercials, experimental video. So there's, you know, lists. And then I clicked on the music video because I was curious. And when I saw my name there, I couldn't believe it. It was very, very exciting. No one's playing a prank on you and then your buddies are goofing on you here?

It's a great honor. And they do have a digital link now. You can go look at all of them. And I was very honored because Director X and Drake are there, and I'm a huge Director X fan, and I'm glad that he and Drake were also honored. You're in some pretty good company there. But they're honoring Drop the Needle. I still think they should be honoring Let Your Backbone Slide. Yeah, a lot of people say that. And, you know, ironically, the Juno Award that I won for Drop the Needle, Backbone was up against it.

So I had two nominations that year. So I don't know. I think TV... Maybe it's a classical part at the beginning. It gives it a bit of class. You know what I mean? Da-da-da-da-da. It could be.

Is that Beethoven? Yes. I should know this, right? Beethoven's Fifth. Right. But if you go to the TIFF website, Jason Anderson is the journalist who wrote the article about Drop the Needle, and he did a great job.

And in the body of it, he did say that Let Your Backbone Slide sort of introduced the world to this Toronto hip-hop community. And it established the Paul Sarasi, Kurt Swinghammer, Joel Goldberg-type style thing. And then he feels, and he points out in the article, that Drop the Needle really took it to the next level with the editing and the... And then maybe there's a good argument to be made

that you are responsible for Drake. Just, John, so I'm connecting some dots here. Because this scene evolves, responsible for Drake. Just, John, so I'm connecting some dots here. Because this scene evolves and then, I guess, cardinal official, if you will, it kind of takes it from the maestro era

and then passes the baton to the current Drake era. I think you're right. I don't think I... No, I say that facetiously. I think maestro is responsible. I really do. And a lot of the younger guys, Chaos and Drake, cite him as a huge influence.

Because it died. I did it for four years. Split Personality, Mishy Mee, Dream Warriors. Organized Rhyme. Yeah, I didn't do theirs. You're not taking the Jane and Finch Food City video? I love that one. I know, because Dream Warriors have a cameo in there. That's right. But for four years, I did nothing but music video and rap music video, and we thought it would never end, and it did. And for some reason, radio stopped supporting it. I don't know

that side of the business at all. But you're right. Then Cardinal official sort of picked up... No, you have to say official. Cardi picked up the torch and then Chaos and Drake and everybody else has brought it to a brand new level. By the way, do we know... He's been quiet lately.

Maybe I'm not digging deep enough. You don't know what's going on. I'm a huge fan, though. Yeah. Tremendous talent that I haven't heard new stuff from in a little while. I need to go dig into that. Yeah. I'm listening in the wrong place.

I don't know. This new age, I don't know. I used to go to Much Music, listen to CFNY. It was so simple. I have no idea where to go anymore. Yeah. It's very difficult. It is.

It's a new age. I hear Chance the Rapper in the house because my two oldest kids play it all the time. And next thing you know when I'm at it, Chance the Rapper. It's very difficult. It is. It's a new age. I hear Chance the Rapper in the house because my two oldest kids play it all the time, and next thing you know when I'm at it, Chance the Rapper. He's great. Yeah, he's great. Now, to bring it kind of full circle here, so I said I'd

seen you. I didn't come up and talk to you. I was intimidated by the Don Draper appearance. It's tough for me, but you were emceeing, hosting the Christopher Ward, his Much Music book launch that we had at the, sort of a Much Music reunion of sorts.

It really was, yeah. I almost want to run down the list of you here, but it was Michael Williams, Kim Clark-Champness, Ziggy, Laurie Brown was there, Denise Donlan was there. Master T. Of course, Master T was there.

The only one of the originals, well, two, John Roberts and Erica M couldn't make it because she has a business now and she was on

a business trip. She's, yeah, she's like in charge of all the mummy blogs or something like that. Yummy Mummy Club. She's amazing and her business

is amazing. So, but we had most of them and we had a wonderful, wonderful evening. You didn't have Steve Anthony. He was sort of, once again, at that

cusp of that 10 years. I feel like, you're right, he's not a day oneer or anything, but he's not like Ed the Sock. He was there long before Ed. There's no trouble with Steve, right? No. I thought he was a great guy. I love him.

He's shown up to a lot of my events in the past. When I had the Down Child documentary premiere, there was Steve in the audience eating some popcorn. He's been very supportive of work I've done. He's just a great guy. He puts a lot of sweetener in his coffee. Five full packets in one coffee. That's not a joke. Really? He had me taste it. I didn't believe him. He had me taste it. Not sugar, though? Sweetener? Sweet coffee. Five full packets in one coffee. That's not a joke. He had me taste it.

I didn't believe him. He had me taste it. Not sugar, though? Sweetener? Sweetener. Five packets. One third of a packet is equivalent to a couple of sugars. It's really sweet, that stuff. Maybe that was a problem there. Okay, so blah, blah, blah. I'm digressing here. That's where I saw you

doing the thing with Christopher Ward. Now there's this Much Music book. I have it to my... Whoa, I'm spilling water over the computer. We lost the recording. We could do this again. No, I didn't lose the recording. Did I?

Hold on, let me check. We're okay. So Christopher Ward's got a book, Much Music book. It's great. Can you speak to potential plans to turn this into a documentary? Or are you going to tell me

I have to edit this out after this? No, no, absolutely not. We're pitching it around. We think it's a great idea, and by we, it's me and Ed Conroy, otherwise known as Mr. Retro Ontario, and with Christopher. We're working with Christopher on it. We feel that the book itself is sort of,

it's almost like a guide, a storyboard, if you will, to a possible documentary. We would like to do the documentary version of that book based on the first 10 years of Much Music. And how is that progressing? Are you having any, I guess what I'm wondering is, because Ed DeSoc was on a couple of weeks ago, and he got, his was not kind, of course, but he did a negative thing about how Bell Media effed up much music. And he says it might have been an algorithm.

He's sort of softening it now. But at first, he came out roaring that Bell Media was trying to muzzle him because he was using trademark. Well, you know, remember Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers, when LeBron first left town to go to Miami? Yes. He put out that tweet that the Cavaliers are going to win the title before Miami ever does and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I remember. Later he said, I think I drank too much coffee that day.

And, you know, that could have been the same with Ed because I love Ed. And sometimes, you know, there's passion. And he's a very, very, very, very passionate sock. Yes, yes. And a passionate human being. And he was saying what a lot of us were thinking. And so was Dan Gilbert, I think. And so I don't begrudge either of them

for saying what they will. My take on it is things evolve. Things happen. Things change. And things in the past should be celebrated. So my take on it is things evolve, things happen, things change, and things in the past should be celebrated, not analyzed as to why it didn't work or what happened or what's going on. The same thing is going on now with video fact, which turned into much fact.

I just was reading about this. Yeah, basically the CRTC is saying they don't have to do it anymore. Now, MuchFact started my career as a music video director. Moses, of course. Is this like grants? Yeah, it's grants. And almost every top music director that came out of this country started with a Video Fact grant, or now MuchFact, or Bravo Fact.

The future is up in the air. So you look at it from Bell Media's side, you know, you look at Much Music, you look at MTV, you know, there's not a lot of music videos. So their point is, you know, we're not showing that much music video anymore. Why should we continue doing this fund? And on the other side, people are saying, you know, it's a public service, and you've created this thing that's kick-started a lot of people's careers. So I know there's dialogue going on both sides.

I don't know how it's going to end up. But once again, it's evolution. Things evolve. And people who watched much music and were nostalgic for it when it started fading away, I think got a little upset. I was wondering if Bell Media might have concerns with celebrating something

they have taken no back and shot. You know what I mean? That's interesting you say that because I think the exact opposite. 180. I think that... Because you're a positive person and I'm very negative. But I think

now is the time to celebrate it. The book, and I have to say Bell Media, the folks over there, supported Christopher a lot in that book. Yeah, they gave him access to the elusive archives. Yeah, which is great. And, you know, so

they supported it, so maybe they'll feel the same way about a documentary. I don't know, but, you know, we'd like to... So it's early stages? Very early stages. It's a heartfelt project, you know, a personal project that Ed and I would like to do.

Passion project. And, you know, we'll see if it gets done. You know, I've done a lot of documentaries, and sometimes they take a long time to develop, and they take a long time to shoot, and then you run out of money, and you've got to get money again. Oh, and don't forget,

I'm working with Ed Conroy on a Hammy the Hamster retrospective documentary, so I don't want this to collide with that, as long as he can do both. Hammy the Hamster, I'm a fan, man. If you guys get that happening, let me know. Well, you should listen. Maybe you do listen, but there are retro Ontario episodes of Toronto Mic'd

in which we discuss in great detail the etobical origins of Hammy the Hamster. So you don't want to miss that. Joel, listen. This was fantastic. Great clips. I mean, from Electric Circus to Maestro. I mean, you're all over my nostalgia bone or whatever. However you say that, it's pretty amazing to have this chat with you today.

Well, and I've been very blessed, especially in the last few years, doing the Downchild doc and Bruce Coburn and working with Maestro because I've been able to work with artists, David Clayton Thomas, another example, artists that I've admired for years, and it's just been wonderful, and more to come. Oh, I should say. Yeah, please. I am working on a new music project

with Marilyn Lightstone. Many of you remember her from Road to Heavenly. It's Miss Stacy, and she is also an amazing film actress, award-winning film and theater actress. And we've developed this show that is a passion project for her called Your All-Time Classic Hit Parade. And we've shot a pilot.

And it could happen. It could be on Vision TV this fall. More to come. Awesome. Jay Gold, that was fantastic. I'm calling you Jay Gold for now. Don't forget, we've got to get that picture. Absolutely.

If I had Walter White in here last week, it's pretty cool. I have another great TV star in here, Don Draper, this week. That's pretty cool. And that brings us to the end of our 239th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. And Joel is at Joel Goldberg because at Jay Gold was taken. So he's at Joel Goldberg.

Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. And propertyinthesix.com is at Brian Gerstein. See you all next week. ¶¶ Read Andrew Miller and wander around And drink some Guinness from a tin