Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Joel Greenberg Came Back: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1631

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

In this 1631st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Joel Greenberg about what he learned from season one of Life in Stages, why there's now a season two and what it's like collaborating with Mike. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1631 of Toronto Miked. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future, means properly recycling

our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Aynes, sponsored by Fusion Corp. Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto Mic'd, is Joel Greenberg. Toronto Mic'd is my podcast. I host it, I book the guests, I produce it, I do the research, I promote it, I manage every aspect of sponsorship from sending the invoice to ensuring I have fresh GLB and Palma pasta lasagnas in the freezer. And yes, I take the

post-recording photo by Toronto Tree. I do it all. But I also produce podcasts for businesses and regular people like Joel Greenberg. Joel was my guest for episode 1555 of Toronto Miked and we chatted about his career as a Dora Mavor Moore award and Chalmers award winning actor, director, choreographer, playwright and teacher. And of course we talked about his new podcast, Life in Stages, which I was proud to produce with him. Well Joel came back for another season, or series as he would say, and in this chat we discussed what he learned from season one, what will be different about

season two, and how we work together. On that note, I love working with people like Joel. So if you've got an idea or itch to podcast, write me now at mike at torontomike.com and let's talk about it. Now here's Joel and me together again. Joel Greenberg, how you doing? Oh, I'm good. Thank you.

I am very good. This is our second recorded conversation. Yep. So what I'm dying to thank you, I'm very good. This is our second recorded conversation. Yep, yep. So what I'm dying to know off the top is, what was the reaction to our first conversation? Ah, well, the first conversation was the last episode in series one, it was episode 11. And I've spoken to, I mean, quite a number of people

have listened to it and have been very generous in their commentary. I mean, I guess starting with my wife, with Phyllis, said when we were talking to a friend who brought it up and she said, you know, there were a number of things you raised that you never told me. I said, well, you know know it wasn't a secret. But I said you know I said in conversation with Mike asking questions and with me not you know picking and choosing carefully. I mean it's fun to be able to talk without feeling that I'm that I have to be able to talk without feeling that I have to be cautious or careful. I mean, if

you're doing a more standard interview, interviews that I've done almost always promoting a project of some kind, you're far more guarded and careful to not be, to digress. But in conversation with you, like as I'm talking to you right now, it's just, you just let it go. Well, it's interesting. So you had your series one, and I know we talk British here, okay? Cause I want to say like season one,

but absolutely had series one, and 11 episodes dropped for series one. And like you said, that 11th episode where you sat on the other side, if you will, and I interviewed you. But you're right, it does give you an idea of what it's like for your guests when you have these longer form conversations. Yeah, yeah.

I was so struck when I was listening to the episodes I was so struck when I was listening to the episodes as they dropped, I was so grateful that people were so easy with talking about themselves, about doubts, about insecurities, about anxieties, and aware of, in several cases, aware that they have a substantial public profile which doesn't somehow, it's not like a protective shield. You still have actors who have been doing this, mostly actors who have been doing this work for 30, 40, and even 50 years.

And in those more senior years, wanting to keep working and realizing that there's less and less opportunity. Or if they've had careers in large festivals or in large productions. There's still some of that, but as a couple of people did say, said, you know, I just wanna, I'm so grateful to be able to work anywhere.

And hearing that, I mean, that was really also what, when I first listened to the Two Shot pod, the British podcast that, you know, inspired me to want to do something similar, it was hearing, hearing people talk that easily, that honestly that I found so immediately engaging. Do you think it has a lot to do with how much time you give it that, you know, a typical interview to promote something or other might go, I don't know, three to seven minutes or something where

when you converse with a guest, you block off like an app. Sometimes it goes over an hour. Sometimes it's less than an hour, but basically there's room to breathe and explore. Yeah. I think so. I mean, I think it's also very clear. I've tried to make it clear before each conversation. I mean, we don't, there isn't a prep time.

So mostly what happens is as guests, as people accept my invitation, I'll say, now that we have a series, we'll say, you should listen to, if you haven't already, you should listen to an episode or two. It will give you a very clear idea of what this podcast is. But even with that, say, you know, it's, it's conversation.

I don't have a script. I tend to begin with the same. I tend to begin in the same place. I'm fascinated to know where people, you know, how people have come to the life they have. Was that part of their upbringing or not? So that's where I begin each episode, each conversation. But then after that, as I say to the guests, I said I do my best to follow them rather than to sort of set the topics and the themes. And as a result, I think because each guest

is a distinctive personality, I hope that the episodes really do sound unique and you can't confuse one guest with another. So just to peel back the curtain a little bit, so you dropped 11 episodes in series one. And as we talk right now on a Friday in January, you're still recording episodes for series two. Like we literally just had a,

I just heard a conversation between you and Ted Dykstra that ended minutes ago. And so I've had this interesting vantage point on your evolution as a host because I feel like possibly, and you'll correct me if I'm out to lunch here, but like in the beginning, you did have notes. I feel like papers would come with you and notes. And then as you did this, the notes got smaller and smaller and now there's no notes on the

table. Yeah, that's true. I mean, certainly for the first few. And I think the notes were as much, what's the, like a security blanket. Well, like that feather was for Dumbo. Yeah, yeah, I had to have something in front of me, even though I didn't refer to it.

Right. Like a safety net maybe. Yeah, no it is, absolutely. Because I've never done, you know, I haven't done this before. I've certainly been on the other side being interviewed and I know, I think all people who are interviewees have pretty good instincts for

When the person who is interviewing actually has no idea who they're talking to right or why? so I didn't want to be that and Yeah, no I've I this is fun. I mean it really is fun because talking to people I mean, it really is fun because talking to people, I mean, the people who are participating in this and joining me in conversation are so interesting and they're so willing to talk. So I don't have to, my work isn't to get them to loosen up. Right.

Right. Well, you know, it's interesting how different all the guests are. And like, you really don't know what you're going to get till you rock. We literally recorded twice with the same guest and they were very different episodes. Like, you really don't know what you're going to get and there's so many variables at play. And again, it's fresh in my mind because you just recorded it. But the Ted Dijkstra conversation, just how giving he was like some harsh realities I would say like the stuff that doesn't make his the bio that he prints in the yeah you

know the book or whatever but you really like he felt comfortable enough to he talked about his alcoholism and he just talked about everything yeah yeah yeah I mean you know all people won't. He was, you know, I remember in the episode with Michael Healy, when Michael said that for the first 10 years of his career, he wasn't writing, or he wasn't writing plays, he was acting, he said he was not getting

really very good work at all. And I remember, I found it particularly potent when he's, a poignant as well, when he said, I used to go to the theater and I would sit and I would get, I think he said, I would get angry, you know, thinking I should be up there, I can do better. That kind of envy. And I said, well that's, that's probably, that's amazing. I mean it's wonderful to hear that, that somebody can be that forthcoming and not in a way,

like he wasn't applauding himself for saying it. I mean, that was a reality. And I've no doubt that people who have listened to him, particularly people who have been in a position to feel that they are yearning for something they're not getting, whether it's in the theater or otherwise, you can connect with these people. So you revealed moments ago that you listened to series one as a subscriber, so they would drop and you would literally listen as a subscriber as they dropped, even though we had recorded them all in advance.

So I'm wondering, like, how did you feel, like, as you would listen to yourself? Like, are you particular? Like, some people are very critical of themselves, like, oh, I don't like that um, and I don't like this. Like, I'm just wondering when you're listening back to these episodes after they drop, and you're listening with the masses who are also listening, you know, Phyllis is listening, everybody's listening, you know, Jessica's listening. How did you feel? Well, you know, the first, I remember clearly the first that the first conversation was with Mark McGrinder. Mark is my son-in-law. We didn't,

you know, afterwards somebody asked me, said, did you talk about that? I said, well, no. I said, we did. No, you didn't, because I think I didn't connect these dots till right now. And also I didn't, it wasn't a plan. You know, we weren't being coy. It just didn't come up. And I've known Mark, I mean, I knew him long before

he was part of the family. And he was a student of mine at the University of Waterloo. So I knew him, I think I met him when he was 18 or 19, something like that. So I've known him for a very long time. And that conversation was really easy because Mark did all the talking. I occasionally was able to get something in.

But after that, with people who I didn't know well, or people I hadn't had any contact with in, really, in 30 or more years, I was anxious about being relaxed and being able to follow them. And there were one or two where I thought, oh, there are so many us. Can I? And repeated phrases. So, but you know, I don't mind the sound of my own voice. I don't care.

There certainly are, you know, I have mentioned to a couple of our guests, you know, you can now listen to this if you want. And several of them said, I never listen to myself. I understand that. And I think when I was acting a very long time ago, I found it difficult to listen. I found it much harder to watch myself.

I don't know how anybody, I'm sure there are people who know how to do that. I certainly didn't. No, it was fun. And I've listened to all the episodes and I've enjoyed it because it's fun. I'm not going into rehearsal and worrying about whether, what I'm gonna bring into the room

is going to be celebrated or not. Right. Yeah. And I mean, if it wasn't fun, you wouldn't celebrated or not. Right. Yeah. And I mean, if it wasn't fun, you wouldn't be doing this. No, no, no, that's true. Cause then it's a job. Yeah, exactly. Jobs come over like a paycheck. Yeah. And we know there's none of that, but no, but we also,

you know, when, when you and I first met and I said, I want to do, you know, I want to record all of these 11 episodes before any of them become available to the public. Right. And, you know, short of the, you know, the advice you gave me saying, you know, just be, just be aware that if something, if any of the guests talk about something that is very time specific, uh, and that particular episode runs after whatever the event is, that, that could be problematic, but that didn't come up I

Wanted to do that if similarly to what we're doing now recording everything for series two in January Because I didn't want it to turn into a job in that I didn't want to do an episode with Ted today and then Immediately think oh in four days I'm gonna have to be back here right doing this and then the week after that and the week after that. It becomes part of the grind. Yeah, yeah. So when things, you know, people, you know, the friends of mine who know that I'm doing this have said you must be so busy. This was while I was running, I said no actually, you know, the work is, it's all done. And I imagine, though I haven't done TV series or film

or anything like that, since film in particular, I think, is usually the actor's job particularly, is probably finished long before the world sees it, we don't know that. The real time aspect is gone. So I look forward, and I really do look forward to getting these episodes done. Doing it all within a month is easy. I get to come into your studio several times. And when that stopped, the first, after, you know, after series one was all recorded and then it was running,

I really felt like I was abandoning you. Well, I got used to this rhythm. Yeah. And I would spend, I don't know, several hours a week with my buddy Joel Greenberg. And then all of a sudden you were gone. And then there was that, you know, that little bit of like a time delay. You kind of, you talked about actors, like they film these series.

And then six months later, when they're dropped in the public, it's like everybody's aware of them. And they're like, oh my God, I'm watching you on TV. And oh, you must be busy. But meanwhile, you maybe haven't worked in six months. That's right. That's right. But I'm saying where's Joel? Okay, so I'm very excited there's a series too.

But interesting that, so Mark McGrinder was your first guest in the studio. And obviously you had a rapport and you knew each other and you talked about it, but it's only today, I was this year's old when I realized he's your son-in-law. So that sure never came up in the conversation. But on that note, so for series two,

see I'm British now too, I've decided it's good. I like this series thing. For series two, one of your guests who was also in person, and this has already been recorded, so I've already witnessed it, Jessica Greenberg. Is that easier because this is your daughter or is it more difficult because this is your daughter? You know, I, it's a similar question

that I've been asked when I've been directing a play that Jessica is acting in. And my answer to you about the podcast is similar to how I've answered in the past and that I take my lead from her and Jessica was so comfortable and What I I wanted to be able to I was hoping to Have a conversation with her that that was informative and Where I was able to do with her, I guess

what I do with other guests, and have her reveal things, not deep trauma stuff. Because at one point, you'll remember, she said when she was in theatre school, she remembered blaming us, her parents, for the fact that she didn't have this traumatized life. And in theater school, she said, she saw all around her, she said people who were drawing on these horrible, horrible. Shame on you, Joel. Yeah, exactly.

So no, I did, you know, I, probably because we've been working together for a long time, though we're not now, I mean, I've been away from studio 180 for a couple of years I Don't know. I didn't think it was I think I was probably anxious at the beginning To not be asking stupid questions or making assumptions. I mean she reminded me of things that I didn't remember and that probably Added to my comfort level. Yeah, I would think you might be hyper aware at the beginning to treat her like any other

guest and not make it like father-daughter-y. But at the same time, because you were very successful not making Mark McGinder father's son-in-law, because I didn't, it didn't come up at all. But so that's one of the great conversations awaits us in series two. So when I asked you earlier about how you felt listening back to yourself in series one as a podcast subscriber, now I'm curious what feedback did you get from others who listened along with series one? Uh, people, you know, the feedback, I would, I would like more. I mean, I've been getting feedback and, uh,

mostly with, you know, I've learned with the podcast, I never did it. I didn't, I knew what Instagram, I mean, I knew what the word was, but I never, I didn't subscribe to it, I didn't look at it. And now in an effort to broadcast the podcast, I use Instagram, I post a lot of photos on Instagram, largely production photos that guests, showing guests in different films and plays.

And similarly, some of the stuff on Facebook, because they're both Facebook and Instagram are the same meta, so it's really easy to do that. Oh, you asked. Well, I'm just curious. So I'm just wondering, did anybody give you any harsh criticism? Are people too, you know, because most of these lists are Canadian

They do yes, they're not gonna give you harsh criticism No, I mean it's you know at the beginning in particular when it was new, you know good for you and I think it's great That was sort of that kind of almost generic and I don't I don't say that critically I know I've asked kind of almost generic and I don't say that critically. I know I've asked where, as much as possible, I've sent out a couple of, I guess you'd call them newsletters to my own cobbled together list,

asking people to comment. I'm particularly aware that on Apple podcasts, you can rate and write reviews and I know that, you know, with the thousands and thousands of podcasts that are out there, that people are listening to podcasts, they're not, their job is really not, I don't think their top priority is to go to the website and to start writing things But a couple of people have commented and it's all it's all been positive You know there I don't know what it means, you know at the end of series one I've got I guess something like 480 followers. I don't even know

80 followers. I don't even know honestly. I know what the number is. That's I do not check the analytics on a daily or even weekly basis, but I know because I get these reports and I don't ask they arrive. Right. So I know the number of followers. Yeah. Now, you know, you made a good point a minute ago where, cause I was thinking to myself, I listened, you know, I produce podcasts good point a minute ago where, cause I was thinking to myself, I listened, you know, I produce podcasts, but I listen to podcasts every day. Yeah. Like to go on a bike ride, listen to podcasts. I've never gone to my computer to leave a comment. I've actually, it's a one way street to

me. It's like, I'll take, take, take, but you're not getting anything. Yeah. My goodness. So the fact that somebody takes the time to leave a comment, it's amazing. Yeah. And you know, you're, you're absolutely right about podcasts. I mean, when I, I listened to podcasts, mostly when I'm walking, I walk, that's something I like to do when I'm driving and I don't drive all that much when I come here, it's probably about 20 minutes, half an hour to get here.

So that's a good length of time. I can listen to a podcast. I can listen to to get here. So that's a good length of time. I can listen to a podcast, I can listen to music. And then I'll listen to podcasts. Often I'll listen to podcasts at night when I'm tired and I'm falling asleep in front of the TV. I've sooner listened to people talk than have these images in front of my face.

But podcasts, in the same way, as you know, I, I often ask people to consider contributing to help support the podcast because it's, it's self-funded and, uh, early in my investigation about how you do this sort of thing, a couple of people who I spoke to who were familiar with podcasts said, what you're doing, we call a passion project because you're not said, look, I'm not trying to monetize this. I'm not looking for advertisers. I won't find them. And I wouldn't even know how to, how to do that. And I don't, again, I'm not looking for, you know, I don't want a job that, you know,

where I feel that what I'm doing now is work cause I'll, it'll wear me out. So, um, why am I? So you know, so what you're maybe this is a good chance before I get back to some very specific questions I have for you. It's a good chance to remind the listenership, right? If they want to help finance and basically that's mainly me, right? So it's yeah, I'm your expense on all this. So go ahead and remind people how they can financially support you. And then I've got some specific questions. Why, thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So there are two ways. If you're in Canada, certainly in Toronto, but in Canada, e-transfer is the simplest and you can do that by sending contributions to Jerika, J E R I C A life in stages at rogers.com. And for the listeners who are outside of the country, you would go to Patreon,

p a t r e o n.com slash life in stages. And at Patreon, uh, the instructions are very clear about how to contribute. Thanks. Again, Joel's not going to show up here in his brand new Mercedes or whatever, because of all these, he's not gonna show up here in his brand new Mercedes or whatever because of all these, he's just trying to pay my invoice. So help him with this passion project. Cause I was very excited to hear there was a series two, because not only do I get to, you know,

see more of you, but I enjoy listening to you talking to the guests. Cause it's almost like you're hearing the podcast in real time and I'm a curious cat too. Like the Ted Dykstra we just recorded, I'm listening to this and I'm like, I had no idea and he starts to open up and I'm like, oh, he feels comfortable. Like he's just gonna tell it like it is and it might not be sunshine and rainbows,

but this is real. So you are doing what I think is the most important job of a host, which is you're making your guests feel relaxed enough to share with you the way Ted was sharing with you. Great. So that's great. Now, this is a very pointed question, but if you could record series one over again, like fresh start, that was like a practice round. Would you do anything differently? Like, is there anything you've been thinking, Oh, I wish I had done this differently in this particular conversation. Any of that? No, no, there was one episode and maybe it was the you'll know, you'll probably know

this better than I. It may have been the first, I think it was the first episode of series two, right? I didn't introduce myself. And at the end of the, where I didn't introduce myself. And at the end of the episode, I didn't end the episode. I just said thank you to Morris Panitch. And then after the fact, I said, oh yeah, no I didn't. I think I wasn't ready for this one. So that's something.

But no, it's exactly the format that I imagined for the conversations to be pretty free form. No, no, I wouldn't, I really, even if I wanted to, I wouldn't even know what I'd want it to change, how I'd want it to change. Well, that's ideal right there. So you just mentioned Morris Panitch and I mentioned want to change. Oh, that's that's ideal right there. So we you just mentioned Morris Panitch and I mentioned Jessica Greenberg, so do you want to tease any of the other names that we'll be hearing in Siri?

And again, I'm actually not sure now as I talked to you I guess this is this drop is like the 11th episode. So people have heard these already Yeah, I think this will be up. I think this will be episode 12 like the first series 2. Okay Oh, I see the first of series 2. Yeah. Okay, then tease first of series two. Okay, oh, I see the first of series two. Okay, then tease what's coming up in this second series. We will be meeting Corrine Coslow, Nancy Polk, and Shawna McKenna, and Sherry Flett, and Jonathan Wilson,

and R.H. Thompson and Tom McCamus. And we've already recorded Morris Panitch and Jessica Greenberg and Ted Dykstra. If I've left anybody out, it's because I don't have sheets of paper in front of me. Which I like actually. And if I've left anybody out, it's my error. It's not, anyway.

And the order, the broadcast order is yet to be determined. To be determined, okay. Has anyone said no? And you know, it's up to you if you wanna name a name, but has anyone said no to your invitation? Well, a couple of people. One person, in series one, a friend who was a long time actor just said this,

he, he began by saying, I don't think I'm that interesting. Him, not me. And I disagreed. I said, I, well, I wouldn't have asked you this if I told you weren't that interesting. And his, his followup response was, I don't think this is a really good time for me. So that- Oh, you got the hint. Fair enough. And this time with this series,

there were two people who, when I approached them, one said, he was dealing with, currently dealing with some very serious family issues. He said, my mind is probably not in the right place. And the other person, you know, said, my mind is probably not in the right place. And the other person, you know, said, sure, this would be good. I never heard from him again. So it's been, there have been, there have only been, it's been smaller number. And in fact, a few people who have

commented largely, I guess, on Facebook, looking at photos and some of the brief texts that I posted. A few people have said, you know, I would be thrilled if you would consider including me in a future episode or two. Yeah. Interesting. Phil, you got the hint on this one. Oh, and Rebecca Northen is also one of the names. It takes a while, but yes, Rebecca Northen, that may be the last name for series two. Okay, exciting. But that initial response you got, which is, I'm not that interesting, that's my personal

pet peeve when it comes to scheduling my guests. Right. And as you can imagine that over 1600 shows, a lot of people have, you know, said no, or said nothing at all. There's been a lot of that or said yes, but then disappeared like one of your guests. But that whole, I'm not that interesting. It irks me because it's my job to extract the interesting. Okay. You're encroaching.

I'm just asking you to have a conversation with me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, with that first, in the first series, the friend that I mentioned who followed up by saying, I don't think this is a good time, that was really what was clearly at the heart of it, because I said anybody who's been acting

for as long as you have with the range of what you've played, of course you're interesting, but yeah. What I've noticed happens, it's been happening in series two, maybe as I get more comfortable, but you'll record like an hour with the guest, and then we'll stop recording,

and then I'll get in my question, you know? And today with Ted Dykstra it was about the fact he voiced the father of Who am I who's the mr. Rogers neighborhood? Daniel Tiger, okay, like don't forget that the father of Daniel Tiger is voiced by Ted Dykstra so I get to come in with that because I Remember my boy being obsessed with Daniel Tiger when he was like three, four years old. So, so there's this,

we don't record it, but this is almost like the after hours post Mike gets in his questions. So, yeah, maybe we should record those as like a bonus or something like that. Who knows? Okay. So we've talked about series two, which is coming soon. One guest I know you would love to have, and I think we'd love to hear you have this conversation. And it sounds like it's not happening for series two, but now this makes me wonder if it could be a series three. Because the gentleman, the name Craig Parkinson.

Right. So Craig Parkinson, for those who don't remember our first conversation, he hosted the show that inspired this show. Any luck getting the inspiration for your podcast as a guest, Craig Parkinson? Well, you know, just before when I knew we were going to be doing a series too, sometime in December, I wrote to Craig Parkinson's agent and said, you know, please pass this on to Craig. Let him know that what he did with the Two Shot Pod,

which ran, I think for about four years, it was 200 plus episodes, it stopped. I mean, the last episode ran exactly a year ago, and that's when I first listened to it, or first became aware of it. I said, can you please A, tell him that life in stages is thanks to what he did. And if there is any way that we could arrange it, Tom,

I would love to have a conversation with him. I feel that I owe it to him. He doesn't owe me anything, but I owe him thanks. And she wrote back and said, no, he's really, he's very pleased to hear this and yes He'd be willing to do it. We'll get back to you Okay time to follow up and yeah, well I've sent a follow-up and we'll see we'll see there's a time difference, right? Between us and the UK so like five hours

You could record right now, and it'd be a nice comfortable. You know yeah, I'm hoping no I'm hoping that it might work. I'm gonna be in London in March, so not that he's necessarily in London, but at the very least I might be able to meet him. It would just, it would be so nice because he's, I've spent so much time with him without him knowing it.

We'll get a photo for your Instagram. Sure. Now that you figured out that beast. That's right. You're an Instagrammer now. Oh, I. Yeah that's a really good idea. It would be easy, easy enough to find his picture. Yeah thank you. Thank you. There you go. But the picture that'll break the internet is the picture of you and Craig meeting in London. If he is even in London. Sure. Okay we'll find out. Yeah. So I asked you

if you would change anything about Series One, and you gave this refreshingly beautiful answer, which is no, it was perfect as it was. It was perfectly imperfect. So I'm wondering though, have you modified your interview style? Like when you have these one-on-one conversations, have you learned anything about hosting them that will make Series Two even better than Series One? Have you learned anything about hosting them that will make Series 2 even better than Series 1? I, you know, maybe the, here's the real commitment to this answer. I do believe that I'm able to ask more direct questions, probing a little bit, because I'm not an investigative journalist or podcast guy, and I'm certainly not trying to reveal, get people to reveal things they wouldn't

otherwise reveal to people. But I think that my questioning, I want to believe that my questioning is getting better, sharper than it was at the beginning when I think I tended to circle things. I sort of moved in from the outside and now I don't feel I have to do that. No, great point. I've noticed that you're getting better at this for what it's worth here. And I think that's just putting in the reps, like having done it now, like over a dozen times. It's like now you can almost anticipate, you know, how to get there. Like sort of like a chess, I suppose, where you know the move you want

to make, like three moves from now. So it's sort of like you need to get, you you got to think ahead if you will. Sure. Yeah. No, that's fair. Instead of, yeah, which you're doing a better job of. Okay. So we have series two dropping now. I'm curious. Have you thought about series three yet? I'm starting to, you know, I'm, I'm aware, certainly looking at the, you know, the, the guest list, uh, there are always, and I said, you know, oh, how could, you know, the, the guest list, uh, there are always, and I said, Oh, how could, you know, what about, because no matter what I do,

no matter how many episodes there might be, I'm so aware of how, of how many people who I haven't had the opportunity to talk to. Right. Um, and certainly there's a huge range of what's possible. What I did, you know, one of my less successful forays into extending my reach well beyond my own network, I sent information to every professionally listed theater in the country to saying,

this is the podcast. This is coming. This is what it's about. And, you know, please let your community know about it. And if you have people who you would like to recommend, please help me. And to date, there hasn't been a single response, so. That's disappointing, though. Yeah. So, I'll, you know, I keep drawing from my own. And a few of the guests have said,

if there's, you know, we know so many people, said if there's anybody that you don't know or you would like us to introduce you to, please let us know. So that's wonderful. And I have been able to meet a few people that way. And through some agents, a couple of theatrical theater agents who I know,

who I've worked with over many years, have also been very, very helpful in connecting me with people. I mean, it's so nice that somebody who either I have never met or who we met in passing a long time ago is so easy and saying, yeah, sure, that would be great. And as you do this, and as you have more conversations, these one-on-ones, I do think you alluded to this, but it'll be, you'll hear a guest talking about somebody else. Yeah.

And you'll realize, oh, I would like to talk to them. And then your greatest referral for that is the guest you just talked to you who'll be like, oh, that's right. Introduce you basically. Yeah. Here's Joel. He's got a great podcast. You two should have a conversation or whatever. And it's fun as I ask you about, you know, here we are still recording series two. Yeah.

And I guess this is the first episode of series two. Hello out there podcast listeners. But it's not that I'm asking you, but will there be a series three? I realize that's a lot like when somebody spends three years writing a book and then the book launches and what's your next book about? Yeah. And they're like, I just birthed this book and yeah, I can't, you know. I mean, this is not, I understand that.

I mean, in fact, interestingly enough, I was at a book launch last night for a very, very dear friend whose book, I think this is her third book, and there was the inevitable Q&A. Right. And of course, What's your next book gonna be about?

Exactly. And you're the poor woman. I'm literally right now launching this new book. Exactly. I've spent, this book I think came together rather quickly as a book, but you're absolutely right. The same thing happens with filmmakers. I was just listening, there was a really, really good interview with Mike Lee, and Mike

Lee is one of my favourite filmmakers. I think the film Hard Truths, which is just about to start in Toronto, I think it's been seven years since his last film, and he's now in his 80s. And the interviewer, I mean, it was a good interviewer, but he said, so what's next? And Mike Lee said, I am in my 80s. And he said, I always have ideas.

He said, we'll see, you know, that's the only answer to that question. We'll see. Yeah. We'll see what the future holds. I know how I want to close, but on our way there, I'm now I'm playing chess. I know what my final move is going to be. I got to get there. But, uh, what I think, to be honest, I think your secret sauce in doing this and why you're so good at this is you are a curious cat. That's everything, right? Like you're legitimately, there's no you are a curious cat. That's everything, right? Like you're legitimately there's no phony baloney going on here. You're not acting. You're not some hired gun to do this hosting duties. You're a curious cat and you're picking

at the threads and asking the right questions because you legitimately would like to learn and know about this person's inspiration and everything. So your curiosity, I think fuels life and stages. Okay. There you go. Take that note down. Yeah, curiosity, I think, fuels life and stages. Okay. There you go. Take that note down. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And then speaking of asking the right questions, we opened this conversation when I asked you, you know, did anyone close to you learn stuff about you from our first conversation,

where I kind of got this great biography, like I got to learn all about your, you know, Montreal, what was going on there, why you ended up here, and it was really interesting. I put it in my podcast feed as well, so a lot of years got on that conversation. And then to hear that your wife, Phyllis, learned things that she didn't know about you from that conversation. And again, being so close to the subject matter, you almost like you can't see the forest for the trees, you just don't, you're just not asking the right questions. So you're not withholding it,

but somebody's got to ask the right questions. And really, that's what you're doing. And if your wife ever had, you know, 60 to 90 minutes to record a conversation with you, she would absolutely learn more about you because she would be asking the right questions. Yeah, yeah. And that is like that's Phyllis's credo. She is really good at asking questions. Very often people say how do you know this? She said because I ask the right questions. But there is something also certainly about being so close to somebody. I mean, you just don't take the time to do that. Can't see the forest for the trees. Yeah. I think so keep asking the right questions. We're not done recording all the episodes for series two, but I look forward to like when they do release them. I also listen as even though I'm in the room for them and then

I edit them and everything, although minimal editing, I'll let the listenership know this is really like live to tape conversations. Uh, but it's the very minimal editing in terms of the meat of the podcast. But I also listen as a subscriber. So I'll go on a bike ride and I'll listen back and then, uh, and I enjoy it kind of, this is how everyone else is like consuming it. And I kind of enjoy doing that. So I look forward to listening to series 2

Great. I'll keep my fingers crossed for series 3 and I'm glad you're back in my life. I enjoy Working with you on this passion project You make it so easy for me Mike, it's a it's real it's a real pleasure And that brings us to the end of our It's a real pleasure. And that brings us to the end of our 1631st show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. They're going to host us at TMLX 18 June 26th from 6 to 9 p.m.

Everybody is invited. You'll be fed that day by Palma Pasta. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. That's where you go if you have old electronics, old cables that you need to get rid of. You don't throw it in the garbage. You go to RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Building Toronto Skyline, a great podcast from Nick Ienies, and Ridley Funeral Home, subscribe to Life's Undertaking, an excellent podcast by Brad Jones. I get to co-host that one. See you all tomorrow when my special guest is rock photographer, John I'm gonna be there So So So So So So Music