Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Joey Serlin of The Watchmen: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1700

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

In this 1700th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with The Watchmen's Joey Serlin about the band's origin story, the music, the breakup, the reformation and Vapour Music. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1700 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

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pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making his Toronto Mike debut. From the Watchmen, it's Joey Serlin. Welcome, Joey. Hi. Just taking it all in here. Take it all in, man. Process everything.

I need to crack open my Great Lakes beer right now, because when you showed up, I was weeding. I know, I saw that. And I think like I got choked up in the middle of the intro and I feel like it's like allergies or something. So let's get some ragweed out of here with some Great Lakes. So I've got a sunny side session IPA. Well played on the crack.

That's the Irish crickets. That's what we call that. Okay, amazing to meet you. A huge fan of the Watchmen. well played on the crack. That's the Irish crickets. Yeah. That's what we call that. Okay. Amazing to meet you. A huge fan of the Watchmen. I think you guys are way underappreciated in this country. Thank you. Well, thanks for saying so.

Do you agree? I do too. Yes, I do. I mean, we're gonna walk through a few of the big radio jams that, you know, any Gen X are heard all over alt rock radio in the nineties. And we're gonna talk about a few things but as people listen to these songs I hope they realize you guys are like top tier Canadian rock band if you're looking at

the 1990s yeah I'd say so I'd say we fall into that that category incredible fan base so which is allowing us to continue to ride that wave today, right? Considering the last time we put out new music, release new music, I think it's accurate to say that that 90s heyday is kind of keeping us going now. It's in the rear view mirror, but people are still coming out. When is your next live date in the GTA? GTA is June 14th and fourth musical coming up. Amazing. So in attendance among many others will be Michael Lang and when, by the way Michael Lang is going to be at my event on June

26th. Joey you're invited. It's called TMLX 19. It's at Great Lakes Brewery from 6 to 9 p.m. That's a Thursday night. This will be the 19th Toronto Mic listener experience that Michael Lang attends. He's 19 for 19. Nice. And what happens there? Tell me about it. Well, Palma Pasta feeds you. I have in my freezer right now, Joey, a large lasagna that is going home with you Oh, there you go. I can cook for once make my wife happy Yeah, make your wife happy Yeah, Great Lakes is gonna buy you your first beer and I have some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes going home with you Joey look at that and really you just hang out with FOTM. It's really a chill event you come out

Yeah, yeah, you chat it up. It's, it's everybody has a great time. You would dig it. But I brought up Michael Lang, not just because he's 19 for 19, but he's like the biggest Watchmen fan I know. And here's a quote from him. He goes, I just told my sons, Joey Serlin is making his Toronto mic debut. And the older one described him as quote, the dad of the guy from the Guelph storm. That's my recent claim to fame.

Yeah. That's, that's the new thing. Yeah. So tell us about your son. You're wearing a Guelph storm hat. Yeah. Yeah. He's playing for the Guelph storm currently in the OHL.

Um, he is a third going into his fourth year of major junior and he's pursuing the dream and we often talk about And he's pursuing the dream. And we often talk about what he's going after is not in a lot of ways, unlike what I did with music when I was at the exact same age. It's, you know, you gotta have the talent but it's not just about talent. It's about hard work, right place, right time.

And there's a lot of parallels we draw often when we talk about our different career trajectories. What's your son's name? Leo. Okay, so playing for the Gwell Storm. Yeah. Does he have NHL dreams? He does, yeah, he does.

Okay. Were you a good player? I was a good player, yeah, yeah. Not, you know, I enjoyed it. I knew from a young age, 12, 13, that music was my passion. So I didn't play at a super high level, but I played enough to play. I was a different player than he is. He's a good player. He's skilled. I was a little bit, you know, a little rougher, gotten to some scraps, did that kind of thing. But your elbows were up. Yes, they were. Yeah.

You know, I talked, so I talked to a lot of Canadian musicians on this program in fact you're the fourth and final member of the Watchmen to make his debut I'm the last you're the last I say the best for last yeah because that's what I do around here but like many many a Canadian musician you can talk into them they wish they were hockey players like they still play hockey and it's like you know I don't know Andrew Scott from Sloan he plays he says seven or eight games a week that's just that's crazy yeah well I'm play with a lot of musicians and musicians want to be hockey players yeah they do and the hockey players want to

be musicians like there's a lot of interesting yin and yang there it is yeah yeah there's yeah there there's definitely a lot of passionate musicians that are very, very passionate about hockey and I've played in a few of those leagues, I still do. Yeah. So congrats to your boy playing for the Guelph Storm. We're going in OHL, a very high caliber, exceptional hockey. Like this is massive.

This is where everybody first kind of watched, I don't know, Bobby know Bobby or Eric Lindros And this list Chris pronger. I'm gonna think of all the the NHL great Yeah, you'd be there a long time if you went after that list. Yeah, it's a few kind of mcdave. Yeah, yeah Mitch Marner we can keep going here Okay So I want to get you to Guelph and I want to talk some watchmen and then find out what you're up to now But I got a nice note from a guy named Craig Clicks, and I met Craig actually at Christie Pitts. He was taking, he's like a photographer and he was taking photos of the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team.

Have you ever seen the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team? I have, yeah. I used to live right by Christie Pitts, very close to it. So I'd walk the dog and stop and watch some games. Well, you're going to love this book I'm giving you. So I mentioned you got the lasagna, you got the beer, you're getting a history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball book. Look at this thing. Wow. Okay. And I'm going to be throwing out the first pitch on Sunday. I feel like you should be throwing out that. I don't know. That's intimidating. How are you feeling about it? Well, I did throw the first pitch for a game last year and I kind of decided I'd be like,

I'm going to be Dave Steve up here. So I did a full windup and I really let it fly and it did one bounce into the catcher like it, cause you're coming off the mound and I, I threw it a bit low. So my goal on Sunday is I want to throw a strike, you know, I know the batter would have swung and missed at that pitch I threw last year, but I want to like a called strike. So that's my goal on Sunday. You want to be in the strike zone. Now it's going to be like 40 miles an hour or something, but there's, you know, I'm going to throw a strike. That's the goal. But I bring up Craig clicks, not just because

he takes pictures of the Toronto Maple Leaf baseball team, but he sent me a picture of a compilation he has. So we're going to go back to Winnipeg with this one, but it's called, can you see my screen? So it's called Rock Showdown. Oh yes. Canada's national homegrown competition. And he's got this. Yeah. And I guess there's a song from the Watchmen called One Man Gone. Yes. What can you tell us for the record, definitively, what can you tell us about this compilation? Well, that was, wow, that's going back obviously, but that you would start, there was regional battle of the bands basically. And we won for the Prairies, which won us a trip to Toronto to play on a televised final. So it was a national TV show and believe it or not, Jim Carrey hosted that because he was not the

Jim Carrey of household name. He was yuck yucks Jim Carrey. Yeah. So he hosted it. Special surprise guest that came out at the end to do a song was platinum blonde. Wow. And we were 18, 19 years old and that was one of the first original songs that I wrote.

And then we didn't win, I believe a Montreal band called Cinema five or something one and but what you did get was to be included in the release and that was distributed nationally do you remember what network aired this I would have been a Canadian like why TV no I would have been like a CT I think was like a CTV or CBC or probably CTV or something yeah and Jim Carrey is hosting this thing yeah I got it got to like, I got to, I did look for some footage. I want to find some footage of this. That's amazing. And you guys are like teenagers.

We're yeah, we're not even 20 yet. And I remember being in the hall. We knew it was platinum blonde and the door opened and I looked into their dressing room and it was full of women and stuff and I was like okay that's well when you say stuff you mean cocaine yes yeah I do yeah you can say okay you gotta tell it like it is on all right I can say so Mark Holmes I can see I'm like at the end of Scarface or whatever he's like just guys

just a pile of like coke and I think they did a cover I think they did some kind of wonderful I think they didn't go with one of their many original Canadian hits. I don't know why, but anyway. Okay, so I just went. I think we're the only band that's still around. No, I mean, that's wild that your origin story. So, so, because in a minute I'm going to play like the first Watchmen song most people heard, which was from McLaren Furnace Room. So I need to get, build you up to that. Okay. I guess that's 92. So maybe share a little bit about like,

how did the Watchmen come together and what brings you to that, you know, showdown in Toronto where you're in Canada's national homegrown competition. And then like what happens between that moment, which I think would be a big deal for a bunch of teenagers from Winnipeg. Yeah. And recording McLaren Furnace Room. between that moment, which I think would be a big deal for a bunch of teenagers from Winnipeg,

and recording Mclaren Furnace Room. So you want me to go way back? Yeah, go back, man. Let's go back. In the time machine with me, Joey. Let's go. Well, Sammy and Danny now are in our first band as very young, like junior high kids.

And then as we got older into high school, I joined a band with a bunch of other guys. First one of which was Pete Lavin, who was the bassist on McLaren. Drummer Grant Page, who was the first Watchman drummer, but never played on any of the albums or demos or anything. Maybe he did one demo. And I got a singer named John Delaney and we had a band called Jerrod and the Ghost and that I was sort of playing bars with these guys they're all like three four years older me I was still underage but sneaking

into bars and playing with them eventually I asked Danny to come replace the singer I sound so callous and cold but then and then I asked Sammy to come in and replace the drummer and Pete stuck around and that became the Watchmen. Okay, did they have a name before the Watchmen? No, as soon as they joined we came up with a new name. So the OG members, the founding members if you will, the Watchmen, Danny Graves, who I'm just remembering he played live at a TMLX event a couple years back. Oh, did he?

And he, it was like a acapella, because that's how he rolls. And it was a beautiful sky. And I just remember like, I was there and he's doing like, I think he's doing Sweet Baby James. It was just magic. Like, shadowed to Danny Graves, one of the greatest voices in rock,

not just Canadian rock, but in rock, one of the most, one of the greatest voices I've ever heard. I agree completely. I am no bias there. No, I, I, I have always celebrated that and have never been shy about saying the fact, about saying that, um, if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have had the career we had. That's for sure. And I mean, just, just have them go acoustic and you can hear this guy can sing. Yeah, I think that's where he really shines and that's why those acapella songs that

he has a pretty vast repertoire of them, but it's always a special moment in our shows and we never really know what he's going to do. He just goes up there and picks one. So go to my YouTube channel everybody, find Danny. I think he did the the highwaymen. Yep he did of course sweet, baby James and Geez off the top my head. I can't remember the rest But is he doing alright because I know you canceled last year you canceled some shows is Daniel graves doing okay?

He's doing amazing. Yeah, okay. Yeah, he's doing great. I can't tell you how happy I know he's been singing since then But when I got the news it was postponed. I'm like, oh, I hope Danny's okay. Yeah, Yeah. He's doing great. I can't tell you how happy I know he's been singing since then, but when I got the news it was postponed. I'm like, Oh, I hope Danny's okay. Yeah. No, he's a better never doing fantastic. Yeah. Okay. Good. So you got Danny on vocals. You got yourself, uh, you're at what your guitars. Yep. Sammy Cohn who another beloved FOTM been on the show you know several times and he had a short-lived podcast with Cam Gordon at Twitter Canada that I even appeared on to celebrate Shakespeare my butt by lowest of the low and it created some

interesting sound bites Sammy not a fan of the band okay so Sammy Cohn we love you buddy no maybe not that album because he is funny we just we rehearsed first on Sunday and he was really going on about how much he loves their new No, maybe not that album because he is funny. We just we rehearsed Heard on Sunday and he was really going on about how much he loves their new album Okay, so and let me know I don't want to put words in some else. I know he's listening So he said something to the effect of how lowest of the low were huge in Toronto, which is true And that's where I'm from But they couldn't fill the Commodore ballroom or some just something about how he was a Toronto phenomena Could be which maybe it's true because I only know everything from a Toronto perspective

Yeah, because I had Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols over last week Yeah to talk about the new album and I've stopped bringing up the I didn't want to cause a can-con Rock war, but I don't think it's and con rock war. But I don't think it's uncommon, especially in Canada, for your hometown to be your strongest market. And I think we could say the same thing for Winnipeg. Yeah, and a lot of it has to do with what stations are playing the hell out of it.

Yeah, it's true. But I would say with the Watchmen, as opposed to maybe different from lowest to lowest, here in Toronto, 102.1 played the shit out of the Watchmen. And we had much music where there's no lowest, the low and much music. There was lots of Watchmen. Yes, there was.

Yeah, I'd say. So maybe I agree with Sammy. Yeah, I think he, yeah, there's some truth to it for sure. And this Pete gentleman who, so Pete, why does Pete only appear on the one album before Ken Tizard comes in? Pete, Pete did, he did the one album before Ken Tizard comes in? Pete? Pete did, he did the first album. We toured, obviously leading up to that

and we did a lot of, it's funny, Pete put in a lot of the hard, like, those always hard work, but he put in that kind of really disgusting road grind where you had one room for four guys or you're sleeping on floors. And he put in all that legwork and then we put out the first album and we toured really, really hard for it.

Like it was crazy. Our manager, Jake Gold at the time, it was kind of an old school mentality. It went him over one fan at a time and we were doing two shows a day in a different place. Anyway, I think I burnt Pete out quite a bit and then Pete was fortunate enough to be in a financial situation through his family where he didn't have to do it anymore. So he chose not to do it. Yeah. And then Ken took us a spot. Yes, he did. Yeah. Okay. So sounds like you guys are

working your butts off. and then McLaren furnace room like just how does that album get recorded you're not with Jay Gold yet no so I wrote almost that whole album I think Danny wrote the lyrics on one song and then once one song musically came out of a like a band jam but other than that I wrote the whole album so So we have this collection of songs. And can I play a bit of one and then we'll pick it up again. Please. You can enjoy your coffee. Thank you. Showed me around your house of pain I fixed it with the love that I've had with you I know you're only like two feet away from me, but I swear to you, I'm listening to this

in the headphones and I'm just fucking loving it. Cracked. Yeah. Okay. So, cause I want to bring in enough. So FOTM is friend of Toronto Mike and I'm bringing in of course, Jake Gold at some point here. But before I get Jake Gold in this story, Chris Wardman's in this story.

He's been on the program because he was in Blue Peter. You know this. Yes. And he produced the album Chalk Circle's album that gave us April Fool. Chris Wardman does a lot of great work, actually. But please, so maybe how does Chris Wardman enter the Watchmen story? So Chris's wife, Joanie, I'm trying to connect the dots. I'm going back a long time.

Take your time. So Chris, somehow, she heard our demo that we had self-produced. Or actually, Kenny Greer produced it from Tom Cotter, Red Rider. Okay so I think they got, somehow she got a demo to Chris and Chris really liked it. He liked the songs and we really liked Chris as well. Like we were all, at the time we really loved Sons of Freedom and the album Gump. We loved the bass sound. Our bassist kind of had a very similar like driven SVT sound. We loved his kind of raw approach to production. So they Chris came to we were in Toronto we were doing a residency playing every

Tuesday night for four Tuesdays in a row and Chris came out before doors opened and we just played all of our songs from live off the floor at the horseshoe. The horseshoe, okay. And he really, he really liked it. So I'm trying to remember if it was Jake first or Chris first. I think it might have been Jake first. Okay, this is the kind of detail I'm curious about because you know the the legend, I don't want to print the

legend right, the legend has it that Chris Wardman's girlfriend sees you guys at the Horseshoe Tavern in 1994. Oh maybe that's it yeah and got him to come out and then Ralph James who has been our agent since we were 16 I can tell you a funny story about how he became our agent but he got Jake and Alan Gregg out too in similar circumstance they liked us they signed us to a development deal and an indie they had a label called Sumo Productions right we signed to their record company and then Chris produced it. Okay, Jake Gold, Alan Gregg, this story is legendary,

but the management trust, their big client at this time is the Tragically Hip. Okay, Alan Gregg just popped over for the first time earlier this year. Oh, did he really? It was unbelievable. Yeah. And if he ever comes back again,

I'm gonna make sure we do 75% of that episode about The Watchmen. Okay. Okay, that's my pledge to him. I always enjoyed Alan very much. Yeah sure. Oh fascinating stuff. Yeah. So Jake Gold, the management trust, Alan Gregg, this is leads to McLaren furnace room getting released by what MCA? Yeah MCA was a distribution company for Sumo. Everybody worked on spec. So Chris worked on spec, Windom Sound, which was a studio at the time worked on spec, engineers, everybody. And it ended up being a gold album. So everybody got paid.

What role do you think much music plays in all this? Because I mentioned it's interesting that I had Lois a little over last week and I'm talking to you because I loved Shakespeare my butt got a lot of radio play a lot of 102.1 the edge radio play but there's no much music exposure for Shakespeare my butt but meanwhile cracked which I just played and run and hide like there are these these are videos we're watching in the early 90s on much like what world is much music playing on? Oh they helped. I mean they could do and one week of video rotation could take care of easily a month's worth of touring. So between that and then getting some radio play and then the live touring it all kind of aligned and just led to a successful indie album. Very cool.

Now at this point, does Jake have you opening up for the Tragically Hip already or does that come like later? It came pretty quickly. They were very supportive. It came maybe a little later, but it came with a lot of regularity and we really got to know those guys and they were just like blowing up between the first two albums and we did a lot of dates with them for Road Apples and it was just so exciting to watch them. You kind of had a front row seat for this meteoric rise of the church.

Yeah we really did, we really did. If anything the biggest challenge was not to have them influence us too much and maintain our own identity because they were so exciting to watch right and there were some comparisons I guess we had the same record company the same management but I like to think we're our own band you know you know I think I think you're your own band for sure with there's never any pressure from I don't know like like Jake Gold to be like the tragically hip junior? No, never, never.

I mean, I think he tried to implement the same blueprint from a business perspective that they utilize to blow up. IE all the touring and the repetitive markets and how you would go back and keep hitting the same markets over and over but obviously they they were a phenomenon and took it to a much higher level but I think to some extent Jake tried to draw on their blueprint. Well it only makes sense the hip were the most successful band in the country. That's for sure yeah. Okay geez and I can't tell so I was a big Watchmen fan but I saw the Tragically Hip also as often as I could. And I lost track of how many times I got to enjoy the Watchmen opening

up for the Tragically Hip. Like it really became like a tandem, but I really dug it. Yeah. And they were, you know, they were, they were just great. I'm sure at times they are what? Them again, you know, you know, they, cause they, they, they could actually, they were in such a position to help so many people's careers. And I think they did, especially with another roadside attraction with, you know, they had the bigger, bigger artists, but they also had a second stage where they could help a lot of bands. But I think it helped. I will say this about these two bands, the tragically hip and the watchman is that you are like created

organically from buds. You know what I mean? Like other than Ken who comes in a bit later, like the three of you outside of Ken Tizard, you guys are just, it sounds like you start your band together as teens or even pre-teens. Like you're super young, right? Yeah, no, there's a brotherhood there. There's a bond. I mean, I met Danny in kindergarten.

And is Sammy Danny's cousin? Yep, their mom's their sisters. Okay. All right, so you're banned at a Winnipeg, so the hip also, neither of you are from massive cities, like you're not Toronto bands or Montreal bands or whatever, even a Vancouver band. So you got, I mean, Winnipeg's got an NHL team,

I'm not staying there. But Kingston, Winnipeg, when you're coming up in Winnipeg, so I'm gonna get you to in the trees here but yeah What who are the the heroes is it is it Randy Backman and and Burton Cummings like who are the the the the Winnipeg heroes that you guys are emulating are looking up to hmm I don't know Winnipeg had it

You know Neil Young is our adopted and I was a big fan of Neil Young. I like what I think what the guest who showed you is that it was possible to break out of Winnipeg and have a music career out of Winnipeg. I don't know how much their I don't like their music influenced us so much. I was fan but I don't think it made its way into our music. The sheepdogs took it. Yeah, that's true. That's true it's funny Winnipeg has these arrows and then they had these this kind of like 80s era with Harlequin and Streetheart and I'd say our influences net debt more necessarily Winnipeg bands or Winnipeg artists, but we kind of fought, they paved the way as Winnipeg being a viable place for musicians to come

out of. But I think our influences were more international than that. Well, you know, seeing a band from your city make it huge. It's similar to when I talked to the guys from Sloan and they talk about April wine. It's the same deal like oh April wine is Is a big deal not just here in in in the Maritimes or whatever is a huge deal all over the place So it's similar similar deal. By the way, don't forget crash test dummies at the time were Massive cuz they were right next to us. Yeah, and then shortly thereafter Chantelle Kravya shek breaks. Yeah, she was a big deal too. Yep So you had a whole bunch of Winnipeg kind of exactly up and up here. All right, so you mentioned you were the

main songwriter so When does that change like it sounds like that first album is all almost almost all you write in the music Yeah changed actually can had a lot to do with it because he came in, very, he almost in some cases played guitar on bass. So very, he had, whereas Pete was very much a backbone bassist and very incredibly solid,

Ken was way more melodic and incredibly solid. Ken was way more melodic and brought in riffs like All Uncovered, which starts with a bass riff or Lusitana. And so that led to a lot more jamming and songs coming out of just spending time together in a room as opposed to me coming in and teaching everybody a song

and then they put their stamp on it. So I'd say that and then that opened the door for Danny to start to say you know what I'm gonna write lyrics for this one and it took a lot of pressure off me that's for sure because there's a lot of expectation after the success of the first album and then we signed directly to a major for the second album. Yeah a lot of of pressure now. Yeah, so I was happy to share the duties. And possibly, again, here I am pretending like I know what I'm talking about, but maybe seeing how the hip works where, you know, Gord is the principal lyricist

and he's kind of, maybe Danny is inspired or influenced maybe by what Gord's doing. You know what, I think I could be wrong. I'm not an expert, but I think the first album, a lot of that was Gord Sinclair's lyrics Up to here. Yeah, and then and then similar to us Or down you wanted to write his own lyrics, but I could be wrong but

In the trees The biggest album you guys ever put out. Yeah in the trees, the biggest album you guys ever put out. Yeah, yeah. Like not just radio and much, although it kind of kicks off with Boneyard Tree, and I remember it was like Love It First Listen with Boneyard Tree, that's a huge jam. Yeah, yeah. And you already referenced another song,

but I'm gonna play a bit of it, because I mainly, because I fucking love it, but and then there's a question that came in about it, and I'm wondering if we can get more details about this song from you, Joey. You ready? This gives you a chance to relax, listen back to him. I'm sure you don't spend a lot of time listening to,

you know, studio recordings of old Watchmen songs. No, I don't. But here we go. Here we go. ["Watchmen Song"] I told Sammy this is one of my favorite songs of all time. Lying in the dreams is easy It's not like five years ago You leave me all over my body Is that just the place that I want you to be? Look at the pictures you've gotten

And like signals from oncoming cars We're covered in a cake from the last night I know it sounds weird, we collected in jars Who's singing this part right now? That's me. That's you? Yeah. Okay. There's a gentleman named Greg Jones who says, I may be remembering this wrong, but didn't Paul Murray from Sandbox sing the pre-chorus on All Uncovered?

No, Paul didn't. Greg is remembering this wrong. Paul made Sandbox open for us for like a lot of dates. So maybe Paul came up and took my part, which a few people have done over the years. Okay, so that's you, that's you. So there's no cameo appearances from any other bands in All Uncovered, it's all the Watchmen.

No, we're not the string quartet playing on that, but that's what I was saying. Who wrote the lyric buckle me in on the highway to sin? Danny wrote that. Great fucking lyric. It is. I bet you there's a lot of tattoos across this. Yeah you know there was a condom company that took that line and put it on the back of their condoms. Yeah. Did they pay you? No they didn't. It's not too late, talk to Jake. Alright, talk to Jake. Hold on, I'm playing it up again. And I never lose after three Who's doing that part there?

That's Danny on a harmonica. And then he hands it off for a guitar solo here. All right so now the band has multiple songwriters at play here and In The Trees is your big breakthrough. Yeah. Okay when you listen back in the headphones I'm naturally curious when you're listening to All Uncovered now what are you thinking as you listen to this song? I'm proud of it, actually.

This is one song that I'm very proud of. Whereas some of the songs... It's tough when you write songs when you're really young. Some of the songs that made it onto the first album, I was 17 years old. In in some ways maybe it's good because there's no filter and it's just kind of this unabashed output of ideas and emotions but as you get older those ideas are refined and more crafted and I think this song definitely indicates that there's a maturity coming for the band.

Working in a three, four time signature, which I think is great. I remember writing this, or working on this song with the guys, and I thought this is awesome. No, definitely. And this is, if my memory serves correctly, this is the follow-up, so this is the second single, right? Like so you've got Boneyard Tree comes out, it's the big hard rocker, and follow-up, so this is the second single, right? Like so you got Boneyard Tree comes out,

it's the big hard rocker, and this is you slow it. This is the move, right? This is the move. This is the... The template. It helped. We'll put it that way. It kind of helped launch the thing.

I know, I'm saying. I feel like Jake used that template with the hip too. Like the first song will be Little Bones or something. Like so I feel like Boneyard Tree is your Little Bones or something. So I feel like Boneyard Tree is your little bones maybe. Yeah, maybe. This song, and we did the video, and it was actually a good video I thought.

The reflection in the tire rim, is it? Is that the? The hubcap. Yeah, it's about a conjugal visit. I don't know how that got in there, but I guess Highways of Sin, I don't know. Yeah, heavy play what a conjugal visit I don't know how that got in there, but I guess highway of sin. I don't know but Yeah, heavy play on much music heavy play. Yeah So things are happening now. So again, yeah, the one thing about talking to you is you guys

Sometimes you get a band They got the 20 albums like I can not gonna be able to talk about each one But I might be able to touch on each one because what is it? Is it four or five albums that we're talking about in the five Okay. Yeah, right. We'll talk about it, but Sammy Sammy's got four you guys got five. Yes to be discussed. Yeah, okay Get ready Sammy. Okay, so maybe so now we're in 94 I suppose it's 94 when in the trees drops and things are cooking and

then next two albums in brand new day and silent radar so if you're cool I'm gonna play a bit of another song sure since you're my prisoner here yeah In the air the tension lingers, evident in pointing fingers From the rad the steaming rises, in this tomb of gulps and prizes Never knowing what they mean, not quite in tune with their scheme Suspect me of an empty shell, but I guess it's just as well Why be good to you? Hey, sweet perfection, chanity values The weight of all my worries I'll be the truth I'll see So, Samantha, see

Let it run its course, of course Alright, how do I put this? So, In the Trees was a massive commercial success, your big breakthrough. Did you guys feel a lot of pressure to follow that up? I'm just wondering why this album doesn't sell as well as its predecessor. We weren't ready to do this album at all. There's a funny story that we always talk about. I think it was the Rolling Stones.

They were asked the same question and I think Mick Jagger's answer was, well we had it all together, we had a great studio producer but somebody forgot to pack the tunes. So we had this song I wrote and we had a handful ready but... Shut Up was a good song. Shut Up was a good song. And I also think we were maybe a little overconfident too, and felt like we didn't need to be ready.

And we could go in and figure it all out in the studio and it would be our poor man's attempt at say a Beatles album or something where we were gonna just experiment and let it all happen and we brought in trumpets and tried bossa nova songs and everything and I think it just kind of lacked focus and it might have been a little bit premature for that album probably should have done something closer than the trees until we solidified live and learn you know it's uh there are definitely some moments one of my favorite songs on that album is uh called my favorite one which favorite songs on that album is called My Favorite One which sounds a lot like the intro to Law and Order, the TV show, but it's still a really good song and I love dance for about Danny's grandmother and there's some, I'm proud

of moments of it but as a whole that album kind of fell flat and I'd be the first to admit it. And you kind of talk about your hubris or whatever that okay, let's bring in the harps Yeah, I know I know and So Doug Olson produced in the trees right goes by mr. Coles and we had him in to do this album, too and he kind of Pushed us in this this whole direction of I'm not gonna blame him was a group effort But he said no, let's just figure it out and it'll be a great time. You'll figure it out in the, like live on the floor. It'll all come together.

Yeah. But you didn't do that for In the Trees. No, In the Trees, we, I think we had enough ideas. We had a lot of time between, and we, after McLaren, and we toured so much at McLaren that we would write on the road and we had a lot of songs ready to go. Right. Yeah.

And when you say toured a lot, we're talking like 150 gigs a year, right? Yeah, or if not more. If not more. We used to go, I think we did a tour where we were out for three and a half months and then we came home and I think it was home for three days and we went out again. Oh geez.

Yeah. Put in the work there. Okay. So I will say that only because it's fresh in my mind because Alan Gregg was just here earlier in 2025, but the sub so they had a, I'm telling you stuff, you know, but a fully completely was massive, like a big commercial success. And then the follow up day for night, Alan Gregg says he got to hear like listen to it and he said it's not done It's it's missing the songs like he was really disappointed with day for night Yeah, and the guys of course being the Tragical Hip are like no it's done Like that's the album and it was kind of an interesting interesting insight from Alan Gregg and that's this is sort of the falling

Out of when Alan Gregg in the so how did it do in comparison? I never I don't I don't think when Alan Gregg and the. So how did it do in comparison? I never really followed their numbers. Yeah, I don't think it was, I mean the two big songs are really not commercial songs. Like it's Nautical Disaster and Grace 2. Yeah. Right? And those are songs hip fans love.

Yep. And a lot of music fans love. And those are the two songs they played on Saturday Night Live when they were on Saturday Night Live. Yeah, that's true. Cause they were the two singles off the new album, which was Day for Night. But those are not...

There's no intention. ...courage or... Yeah, there's no intention of a radio hit there either. Right, but fully completely was loaded with radio hits. Well, maybe they felt the same way, you know? They're just like, we're gonna do what we want, you know? Yeah. At this point.

Did it? So, but do you ever have any interference from the good people like Jake Gold? Although that wouldn't be Jake's, it would be Alan Gregg, I suppose. So do you ever have any interference from the good people like Jake Gold? That wouldn't be Jake's, it would be Alan Gregg, I suppose. So I'm trying to think timeline is Alan Gregg still around because he kind of departs earlier. But any pressure to write a big, much music hit, write a big radio hit? No, I wish somebody would have said something. That's funny because a lot of times it's like, like even Sloan, Sloan, I'm bringing up the same bands because they're top of mind because they were just over,

but the Coke's Me, what's that album called again? Twice Removed. Yeah. No, Twice Removed, the studio, I think it was DG, what is the initials for Geffen there? DGC. Yeah, that's it. They are like, we're not putting this out.

Like, you know, you have to record this again. They literally, this was, came from Andrew Scott earlier. He said that they asked the band, re-record twice removed because they wanted another smeared. It's in, and I just wonder, you know, where the line is between artistic integrity and, oh yeah, we need to sell tickets and, and especially back in the nineties, you need to sell CDs.

I know. Yeah. It's, uh no there's no there's maybe it was it was the time but there was not a lot of pressure. Maybe they thought they had the singles that they needed with um incarnate and shut up and uh and then they you guys you guys in zoom and then you guys can do what you want with the rest of it you know um. three, back in the nineties, I'm gonna give a history lesson to the kids. You really could sell a lot of albums with three singles. Like I'm thinking of Avril Lavigne. Like Avril Lavigne had three hits

and how many copies of, what was it called? Let's Go or whatever. Like I mean, three solid radio, much music singles can carry an album. Yes, and that's maybe that's why they thought we could do that but at the end of it at the end of the cycle they weren't happy I'll tell you that. You got a Juno nom right? Yeah we did yeah which is nice. Have you ever won a Juno? I have never won one

once again the hip he's won every time every time we were nominated they would win. Every time you're nominated for Juno the tragically hip wins it. Yeah Yeah I'm thinking of all of you know You get a great tennis player or something who has to play in the same era as era Yeah, as Roger Federer or something like that and it's like, ah, that's just I was producing a band up at the bathhouse the hip studio in Kingston and They had this big fan by the way, they were called the populars they're good power trio and

Right in the mix room was a framed Juno presentation thing and then it just we were there as the nominee It's an honor to be nominated Or the good one is I used to always say I don't care if I win Until you win. Yeah, I've seen here. I am like it gives a fuck about a goddamn Grammy Like I don't want to win an award, but if I ever won one, I'd probably put it on every social media exactly Yeah, maybe I did she would press release or something prestigious award Won by trying to make alright. I'm also a Pearl Jam fan. Not a Canadian band though, but Adam Casper, okay?

So you bring in Adam Casper to produce Silent Radar, right? Yes. Yeah, new label, because of how everything went with- Yeah, that's the real talk. What happened there? So you were underwhelmed, if that's a word? No, I think they were too. I think it was, you know, Brand New Day didn't do what we, everybody had hoped, us included.

And we parted ways with MCA at the time. And EMI jumped in pretty quickly and signed us. It's nice to have options. Yeah. But once again, actually, no no that's the next album I'm getting. Well here, so let's let me get to a song from this album here. It's from 1998. Touching down, it's a frozen town Look around, I grew up, I fell down Nothing changes, nothing changes, except the red lights

Nobody changes, nobody changes, wanna see them tonight Everybody gather round Everybody drag it down I'm feeling like a one-legged man Always made to take a stand Any day now it'll come Any day now it'll welcome. Any day now it'll welcome. Any day now it'll welcome.

Joey, let me just tell you how amazing it is. Here I am on a Tuesday afternoon enjoying a delicious can of craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery listening to amazing Watchmen songs of Joey Surland. I think that's pretty rad. That's fun for me too man. Any Day Now is, well not the first single, so Stereo is the first single but let's hear you talk just maybe a little bit about working with Adam Casper and about how this album is received. So when we changed labels to EMI, we had the ability to meet with a number of producers, Adam being one, and without getting into some of the other producers' work, because they

were all equally as great, We connected with Adam right away. And we're obviously fans of his work. I'm also a Pearl Jam fan. He was the guy, so label was good with it. We went out and recorded it at Pearl Jam Studio, Studio Litho in Seattle. What's that like? That's great.

It's just a converted warehouse. Great live floor, huge high ceilings. They've made quite a vibe out of the place, but the control room is very small. And all their...then they have just a ton of gear. When I think about that process, for example, just listening... We don't have a B3, Hammond B3 player on live, but that's Ben Montenge from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers playing on there. And Adam called him and Danny and Adam flew down to LA and he played on Rooster as well

on that track, and any day now. It was amazing. I think I spent a total of three months there. Danny and I went back and mixed it with that and the whole band didn't do that. I also think that's Chris Cornell's guitar amp I used on this song. That's a fun fact. Yeah. It was just crazy, stuff lying around. Another funny story, I had an old orange 412 cabinet that I shipped a bunch of gear there and when I shipped it back it never made it

there, it never made it home. And then I saw a live pro show and I'm pretty sure my 412 was on stage. But anyway, yeah, it was fantastic. So it's kind of a bounce back, right? It was a bounce back. And it didn't hit what In The Trees did commercially. It did well. But it's definitely, from my point of view, it's our most complete album.

Yeah. In terms of songwriting, sonic quality, production, it's just everything kind of aligned there from a creative perspective. I mean you still hear stereo all the time on all rock radio. I mean that was such a big opening. That's again a hard kind of opener and then you got Any Day Now. You can cool it down for this second single but also a great jam. Yeah, this album's great and these are also more much music videos. We all watch

the stereo in any day now and this album sells more units than the previous album. So everybody's happy here. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you who in the band is the bleeding edge internet advocate from this period, this late 90s period, because the Watchmen are like one of the more online, digitally savvy bands in Canada at the time. It's probably Ken, Ken and Sammy maybe, and the label and probably had a hand in it at the time, seeing how things were changing

and music was being Distributed and consumed so That's our we I think we what do they do again? They had a you open a key to an exclusive website with that Okay, there were a few things going on. Yeah, we had a website band I mean, uh, yeah a band website a website band Yeah, you had a band website for the watchmen, but then you had one for the album, and then you had like a webzine. Yes, we did, yeah. Like this is really aggressive and advanced,

because I mean, I was online in 98, but it was early days for all of this, and you guys were kind of at the, you know, the webzine, and you had like, all of you were writing, there were lots of photos and I kind of like so I did in this period of time I enjoyed like different members of the band are gonna blog about the tour or different things and observation and stuff like I feel like yeah I'm still blog I was blogging yeah at this Yeah. I'm still blogging. I was blogging at this time, and I'm still blogging.

But I'm all alone out there. Come back to me. But yeah, you got to see cool. Like, let's say you did it. You were on tour or whatever. Just to hear from you guys, like, OK, we did this. And this time, this person joined us for this. It was kind of cool access.

And we lost it when everybody switched to social media because that's what happened. Yeah. People abandoned their official sites for social media and I think we lost a great deal. Yeah. You're right. You're right. People now bring it back. Now websites are really just to go maybe double check some tour dates. Yeah. Go check out tour listings and get the hell to Ticketmaster and buy a couple of tickets. But I just, okay, so now I'm reading my notes because I didn't remember this in real time, but on March 5th, 1998, apparently a piece of the artwork from the new album would go to a special website along with a snippet from one song from the album. And then every day, I think it is,

a new piece and a new song would be posted, or every other day. And then there was a puzzle to unscramble. I think this is what you're talking about. So you can kind of get the track listing and hear these bits and solve a puzzle. The first single, of course, that was on the website there was stereo.

And then you had, I think all these snippets are online for like two days and then the next song would replace it like it was kind of kind of maybe almost dare i say uh too cool for school like this is actually well i wasn't even aware of all that okay shout out to cam gordon who's kind of got a book project on this and okay there'll be some talk of this in that uh book but yeah interesting time to follow what's going on because you guys did a webcast of your leaves We did a show we did a webcast and I think what's the name of it where? Was it for this album? I think it was for this album where you? We went into Manta studios and did a live kind of, we sat down with I think Alan Cross or...

All right, well he'd be the guy. Or maybe it was Alan, I can't remember. God, why can't I remember? Anyway... So you're here for me to jog your memory. Yeah, yeah. Was it Alan Cross? Yeah, it was the name... Was it for CFNY? It was where they would simulcast, so it was going nationwide.

And we would did basically the whole album and then you'd sit down and talk about it. Sounds like a Toronto White episode. You played in front of a studio audience, but like 50 or 100 people in the studio. And then. Yeah, like an intimate and interactive type. Yeah. You see how much music there. Hey, so currently, meaning in 2025, one of the many podcasts I produce is the humble

and Fred podcast. Okay. And they do have like memorabilia from their many years on 102.1 when they were the morning show throughout the 90s and they have like posters and stuff and they have a Humble and Fred Fest poster. This is an event that was at Fort York in 1999 and you guys were the headliners. Oh cool. Do you remember playing Humble and Fred Fest at Fort York in 1999, one of the 10,000 shows

you played as the watchman? Kind of. It jogs memory. Do you know any of the other bands I played? With Blurtonia on the bill, I'm trying to, I don't wanna get my Humble and Fred. There was also a cookout with a poster. I'm trying to think, I have to tell my head.

Yeah. But anyway, you're on that bill Okay, so you're part of humble and Fred history Not that I think humble and Fred could actually name a Watchman song because I think they were secretly listening to Steely Dan Okay. Well, I'll tell you a humble and Fred show story. So I am not so long ago when Danny and I Were doing our Serland Graves project. We went and did their podcast or their show. And they said, oh, we're doing a, um, we, we, oh, they asked us to play any day now. And we did.

And you, and then they asked us if we would play this horseshoe show that they're doing. There was a bunch of artists and play a couple of acoustic songs. And then the night before the show, I slammed my finger in the car door and tore off. Like it was, it was really bad. I was at this show. Yeah. So I let them know right away that I, I can't do it. Like, I'm sorry. I would do it.

And I don't think they believe me. They were, they were pissed off. Well, they were not happy. That's not a surprise, but, but it was the real deal, right? You weren't bullshitting them. No, I sent them a picture of my finger because their reply was like, this is so bad. Did they say, we'll take Danny acoustic?

I should, yeah, he should have, yeah. He could do some sweet baby James for everybody at the horseshoe. By the way, fun fact, this album, this comeback album, as if you were, he had one album that didn't sell as well and maybe you're not as proud of one album. He's a big comeback here. Okay, yet another Juno nomination He had one album that didn't sell as well, and maybe you're not as proud of one album. He's a big comeback here.

Yet another Juno nomination, and yet another loss to the Tragically Hip. There you go, I wasn't kidding. That's the third time. What was the category? Was it album again or band? Best rock album. Okay, there you go.

Okay, geez man, maybe we'll give you a lifetime achievement award or something like that. Okay, I'm gonna ask you a lifetime achievement award or something like that. Okay. I'm going to ask you a big Sammy Cohen question, but first I want to shout out Nick Ienis who hosts Building Toronto Skyline, also hosts a podcast called Building Success, but we did two new episodes of Building Toronto Skyline on Friday. One included a talk about affordable housing with Brad Bradford. And I want to say thank you to Nick Aini's for his support and urge people to check out that

fine podcast. And while I'm recommending podcasts, how many times I don't expect an exact number Joey, but how many times do you think the watchmen have played Regina Saskatchewan? Minimum a. 100 times? I'm guessing, yeah. But yeah. Do you remember the venue you played? The reason being because it was so close to Winnipeg. So early indie days we would go down

and that was our big road trip to go to Regina and then maybe Saskatoon and come back. Do you remember eating any pizza at Tumblr's Pizza? No. Okay, so Al, Al Grego, who will be at TMLX 19 on June 26th, and he's won many awards for hosting Yes We Are Open by Meneris. And he went to Regina and talked to Jim Baton, the founder and owner of Tumblr's Pizza in Regina. Bait on the founder and owner of tumblers pizza in Regina and Jim shared his story

From making pizza boxes at the age of 14 to building a pizza empire that sells Regina style pizza in over 140 locations across Saskatchewan, so if you go there today, I bet you'll find a tumblers pizza, but that Like when you say 140 locations, you mean frozen in stores too? Like grocery? No, I mean, I don't think Regina can support 140 pizza locations. Okay, that's a great, you know what? That's the real talk. No, this is, Saskatchewan's got what? Like a million people or something in the whole province, right? If that, I'm not even sure. All right, well, this is why we all need to go and listen to

the most recent episode of Yes We Are Open and hear what Jim has to say about it. He shares the story behind the unique name, the secret formula for their incredible sauce, and the challenges faced along the way. Let's find out, is it possible that there are over 140 locations of Tumblr's pizza across the province of Saskatchewan. Joey is skeptical and you should be. I don't wanna just, I'm not trying to take anything away. You're not calling General Iyer. No, I'm not, I'm not.

No, no, you're just questioning it aloud. Just questioning the mouth. That's healthy. That's really impressive. Maybe, but maybe it's available to buy at, say, all of the Safeways. No, you know, maybe, do they have Sobeys in Saskatchewan? I don't think so. Maybe that's not the way.

Superstore and Safeway. My wife's from Edmonton, and she sometimes educates me about the things they have that we don't have, because we have pizza pizza, and they have something called pizza 47 or something. Right. And it's the same thing apparently,

but just a different. I still refer to things incorrectly when it comes to blah blahs and super store and stuff like that. You rooting for the is the oil again tonight? Yes. You rooting for the oilers? I am. Even though you're a Jets fan.

Yeah. Well, they're not. So I was tough. No, I know. But I'm a Leafs fan. And I mean, I don't want to see I don't know, the Habs or the no, I don't want to see I don't know the Habs or the no I wouldn't want it I have an affinity for the Prairies and Edmonton and I was yeah I don't have our time going there but I agree if it was the Habs I probably wouldn't be

different story yeah and it is a kind of a fun team to root for the others and they always were like even in the 80s I used to kind of make them my second team because I like to see a curry and Messier. I wrote Wayne Gretzky a letter when I was little and I was I took a cover of a book and I traced it and I traced Wayne Gretzky holding the stick up in the air and I said Wayne I drew this picture for you and then I was so scared he'd know I traced it. He'd think I'm a liar. I was a little kid. That's funny. Yeah. Anyway, he wrote back.

That's cool. Well, somebody wrote back. Somebody wrote back. Okay. Well, the great one, his PR people have little work to do right now, I think in this country. I think his stock has fallen. I don't know what the watchman think of it all, but I'm disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, he hasn't said much about it. I don't know what the watchmen think of it all, but, uh, I'm disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very disappointing. He hasn't said much about it. I mean, his wife has, but his wife, um, Doug Ford, Donald Trump,

there are many people, Bobby or I think said something, maybe like there were many people speaking on behalf of Wayne Gretzky. None of them named Wayne. I know. Well, yours also a big Trump guy. Yes. I know. He put out that a big Trump guy. Yes, I know. He broke that ad. I'm keeping track over here. All the Trumpers. Any Trumpers in the Watchmen? No. Okay. Taking a note here. You guys are still in my good books.

It's always disappointing. Although I just had an episode with Snow, who had the big hit Informer. Yep. And he's here. And we had a lovely time. We're still buds. I think I'll see him Sunday. I think he'll be at the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game. Really likable guy, but he also has this, uh, fondness for the president of the United

States of America. Isn't it funny when, uh, well, white lotus did this a little bit, but isn't it, isn't it funny as soon as some of that comes out, just the elephant that blows up in the room, you just kind of don't know what to say or if they're kidding or yeah. The only other person I've had a one-on-one combo with who was like sort of a Trump or is living in Calgary and I just chalked it up to like Alberta ism. What is going on there? What do we do about this?

I don't know what is going on there. It's not helping anything. I'll tell you. No, it's not helping. That's for sure. We need to be united right now Okay, last shout out and then I'm gonna ask you about Sammy, but the last shout out is to recycle my electronics dot CA That's where you go Joey if you have old electronics old cables old computers. I need this. Yeah, don't throw it in the garbage No, you know those go in the landfill. I have recording studios

So go to recyclemyelectronics.ca and just type in your postal code and they'll be like, oh, you can drop it off here. And you literally, I've done this. You just drop it off and it's properly recycled so the chemicals don't end up in our landfill. Good to know. And here's a measuring tape for you

because Ridley Funeral Home sent that over so you could measure what you wish. No. I don't need to know what you measure. It's between you and your measuring gods. Okay, all right. They also, by the way, life's undertaking. This would actually, this would have been very handy

because it's soft and I just had to measure my elbow, the circumference of my elbow for a tensor bandage. Oh, yeah. So you should have come here earlier. I had to do it with like a hard, you know. I had those things will cut you. And my daughter was doing it for me. was measuring it how many kids you got I have four kids yeah a lot of kids it is it's a lot of kids I have four kids but okay

Brad Jones who owns Ridley funeral home has six kids wow you don't hear about that unless this is like a the old farming days yes yeah so anyway she was measuring it and then I said, okay what's it reading and she said 30 feet. I said, I'm glad I'm paying for private school. Anyway. All right, you know what I see that you are serious Have some faith in me Like they used to be Come Sunday, I believe it

Yeah What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say? What do you want me to say? Alright, sounds a little different. Joey, where the hell is Sammy Cohn? What's going on with Sammy?

Well, he's not on that, I'll tell you. We parted ways with Sammy during the writing process for this album. We wanted to go in a different direction which is evident on that recording. We're being influenced by electronic music, Massive Attack, different bands and we wanted to integrate into the music and Sammy as a drummer is you know would naturally maybe feel not as comfortable about that about that direction and so we agreed to disagree and move on. Do we call this artistic differences? We do and there was business differences which we don't need to get into but

so we just decided to move forward without them. It's all programmed drums on there which you know what it's obviously we've gotten back together and worked out things and I hear we do some of the we do this song for example and I prefer it with them so I think a lot of Watchmen fans are would rather hear you guys have a drummer yeah well we had a drummer when we toured we got a drummer named Ryan Ahoff he was a touring drummer really fantastic drummer but the band is so much better with Sammy in it. We have a sound with Sammy he's a phenomenal drummer he's a pocket drummer I think he and I in a lot of ways are kind of the rhythm section like I'm so anchored to what he does

in his playing and his accents and I really work off of him and we're really syncopated from a guitar drummer perspective. So great song, you know, and there were some great songs in the album and it's fine. It was a different process after Silent Radar.

The label really wanted to ensure we have the songs before they would green light the funds for the next next album. Right. But yeah, I wish one of my biggest regrets is that Sammy's not on this album. That's for sure. And this is the final studio album by the Watchmen. It is. Yeah. And the album is called Slow Motion, but you tie it to a Greatest Hits package, right? So you gotta buy two CDs, like a two CD set. It was a double CD with a, I think the second, the Greatest Hits package had a remix of stereo on it, which the producer of the new stuff, Reese Folber from Frontline Assembly, and he remixed stereo.

Did you know that Slow Motion was ineligible for the Juno because it had too much repurposed older material? It didn't satisfy the criteria as a new album because I don't know, X percent of it was actually all uncovered in greatest hits stuff. I did not know that. That's why you didn't lose to the hip that year. I know and it it went gold and the label never gave it to gave us our plaques. So what I a couple years ago I surprised the guys because they were certified so it was easy to get them made I had them made and surprised them on stage and gave it to them as a gift. So in 2003 that's cool you did that now

in 2003 the Watchmen break up so just definitively for the record Joey why did the Watchmen break up in 03? Burnout just lack of an, lack of new material. We just couldn't do it anymore. It was time? It was time, yeah, for sure. And then it was tough. There was a lot of relationship issues at the time. We'd spent, been just like together for so many years and constantly, and the way Danny says it, in each other's pockets,

right? So everyone wanted to kind of branch off and have independent lives. And then we all started to have kids. I remember coming home from a tour and my first daughter was walking and I missed it. I just was enough, right? Yeah, I hear it. No, I hear you, it makes sense. So tell me like, what do you do after The Watchmen when The Watchmen breakup in 2003? I've got some cool names you're working with, but let's hear it from you.

What did you do to spend your time? Well, I actually thought I was gonna do an album with Danny, but he decided to do it, go in a different direction and really want, and I don't, you know, at the time I was pissed off about it, but. Is this doctor? Yeah. Yeah, it was. So we were supposed to do something and he did, he told me, you know, you know what, I'm going to do something else. And I get it. That was his opportunity to, to try something else completely. It would have been, you know, a lot of similarities to do

another album with me at that point. So, but what it did, it really forced my hand to figure out my next chapter. So in a way, a lot of ways I'm grateful that whether it was intentional or not, he forced me how to figure things out. So I started to write. I did a lot. I wrote music for film. I did music for video games. I wrote some songs for some Canadian Idol winners that I wrote co-wrote a song with Randy Bachman and Simon Wilcox first

Canadian Idol winner and then and these winners are Ryan Malcolm and Kaylin Porter. That's right. Yeah, Kaylin I'm remembering now. I'm thinking back at the time a little bit like a young Wayne Gretzky like a young Wayne Gretzky. Yeah, a little bit undersized. But yeah, that's what I'm saying. Dave Semenko to be on his wing. Yeah. Yeah. So we did those. And then I got into starting to write for advertising. And then that really put me down a path of getting into that, like having a post audio company. And I started a company which is really grown. And this is Vapor Music?

Yeah. Okay, give us the name here, Vapor Music. Vapor Music, yeah, we've got really talented group of people working there and five studios in Toronto. We got a studio in Vancouver. We do, and we've branched off. Now we have another company called Long Division. We do a lot of animated kid shows. We have music supervisors that do live-action film and

television and video games. That's how I have four kids. Yeah. Oh jeez. I got some so I know I mean I've doing a little work on what Vapor's up to and what you're doing. You mentioned these international commercials and these brands okay man these are some of the biggest brands in the world like Budweiser, Coca Cola, Nintendo, GM, Nissan, Chrysler. These aren't, with all due respect, this isn't Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, these are some huge brands that you worked with. Are there any music for many ads for any of those brands that you are responsible for that many listeners

might actually recognize? Yeah, yeah. A lot of the commercials you see on TV, my company did it, like whether it's during hockey games or watching TV, yeah, we do. We have a, as they say, a large market share, yeah. And you're a partner with Vapor Music. Yeah, yeah. I'm the owner. My wife and I own it. Okay, so partners underselling you. You are a

founder of Vapor Music. Mm-hmm. Look at you. I know. Look at that. That's why I had to turn my phone off for this interview. You can see this. And the father of a Guelph Storm. What position does your son play? He's right wing, but they used him at center last year. Yeah Yeah, and three daughters. Yeah, like I said off the top Michael Lang's kids following his career Yeah, I think he's even shared photos of like sirlin on the ice It's like, you know who this guy's dad is pretty cool. Actually, I'll tell you a story outside of T after there's a guy named Sean for faro. He's uh he's like the TV for a guy for the kitchen of Rangers and he interviewed my son between periods I've heard I've seen it because I'm fine of a watchman yeah titles of songs yeah the

watchmen are very clever yeah any day now you'll yeah any day now you might yeah very clever I have seen this. Absolutely. That's very cool. Okay, so Vapor I'm gonna play one last song here, but Vapor is still a going concern. This is your full-time gig Feeding for kids and we know how expensive hockey and everything is I know this better than anybody But we'd be remiss before we close the Watchmen chapter. We mentioned you're coming to the Danforth Music Hall in June. Yep. So you have reunited. Oh, we've been reunited for quite a while.

I've been there, I've seen you guys. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so maybe give me an idea, like since you all have other jobs, right? Sammy's drumming up results as a very successful real estate agent. Everybody's working. Is that his tagline?

Drumming, he's drumming, in fact, for one month at least, Sammy's a good businessman. Like he is such a hard negotiator, but we had a month. For a guy that's not so strong at math, he is a good businessman. That's funny. He did sponsor Toronto Mic for a month.

And the thing I would say in the intro was that Sammy Cohen was drumming up results. I love it. And I think if you got a free, I don't know, a free consultation or something, or you talk to Sammy or whatever, I think he was going to throw in like a free drumming lesson or something. That sounds very, yeah, it does. Yeah. Drumming up results. You know, I, cause that doesn't cost him anything. That's funny. You can say that. Okay. Now you guys are back. So how many shows a year might the Watchmen play typically? Because you're also busy with these other gigs and family and everything.

I'd say maybe 15 to 20. Maybe. That's more than I would have guessed. Yeah. Okay. And in the summer, I guess you got to go do a bunch of like festivals and stuff. I've got some coming up the summer. Not the life, right? Cause you got the main gig or whatever. I like, I'm enjoying it more than I did

when we were in the thick of it. Probably cause my entire livelihood's not resting on it. And I appreciate it as well. Like I just appreciate the support and I feel very, very grateful that we can go play the down for and sell it out and people are into it. It's a, and everybody's singing what I can only imagine what it's like, but I've been to fairly recently, I've been to watchmen shows and when the crowd is singing back to

you, like, what's that feeling like you're on the stage, the crowd is singing your song back to you. They sing every, every word. It's crazy, I know. It's funny, at the down for my two youngest daughters are gonna come out and they have no idea. They just think, every once in a while my wife will be driving, you say that's daddy on the radio or something.

But they have. Yeah, stereos on the radio, whatever. And the other day. Your minds are gonna be blowing. I know, they use stereo at the beginning of the Jets game And was a Pretty elaborate film and my like that's daddy It's kind of funny. So I'm looking forward to them being there

But yeah, no, it's it's a lot of fun. I think we're enjoying it more more I wish we're gonna go back in time and be a little more grateful when I was doing it You kind of can because you're gonna be doing that at the what's true Or he comes against the Danforth music hall what date again and is this sold out? It's very close I think there's like 5% left or something any room on that will call list for Toronto Mike. Yeah, what's going on? Well, what am I supposed to say now? Well, I did give you a lasagna and beer and a tape measure and a book. So here's how I want to end. So the Watchmen, I feel like that's a pretty good

history of the Watchmen. I really meant it off the top. I feel the Watchmen are underappreciated considering the quality commercially and critically, the success of the music that you guys put out in that period of time. Like I'm still, ask my kids, I live kind of with 90s all rock and it's a staple. The Watchmen are a staple. Thank you, man. And I'm sure the hip kept beating you. That's okay. It's good to lose to them.

They have a larger catalog. Okay. They do. They have a significant body of work. They do. All right. Last jam before we take our photo by Toronto Tree here. How did I get here?

How did this fall on me? I should have kept my hand down Now I'm seeing things I can't unsee I've grown so weary And I just can't buy a rest I should just walk away But I can't leave this mess So I'm calling out to the one I love to rescue me Now I'm seasick and I just wanna go Waves are crashing over me like a thousand year old stone So smooth out my rough edges and hear all my confessions Let the endless sea just carry me back to what I should have known I can't make it alone

I wanted to close with some Serlin Graves. So maybe share a little bit about how, you know, you and Danny hooked up for this album, Sad Songs for Sale. I just wanted to let the beat drop first. You're the conductor man, I do as you wish. One of the reasons I think the band stopped or why I stopped, I just stopped writing songs. I don't know what, just creatively, I just kind of dried up in that way.

And I became, I think, very good at my craft in terms of recording, probably because of what I do for a living. But I didn't write songs for a long time. And then somewhere in and around COVID, all of a sudden I started to just, I don't know where I write a lot of songs. Like complete full lyrics songs that are on that album that I wrote in 10 minutes.

And I hadn't had that kind of output say since like writing any day now or something. Interesting. So I think it was my natural instinct to get, reach out to Danny and see if he wants to sing them. And I said, I have all these songs songs you want to sing them he said well I do have a lot of songs so he brought a lot of songs to the table and we would I would go down to Motel during the day and he got a piano there and a bit of a PA and we started to have the part down that's right and put an album together and then I have studios. And so we did it at Vapor. I went with engineer drummer Ryan Chalmers and bassist Dustin Anstey who works at Vapor.

Both those guys work for Vapor. Where is this studio? It's Spad in Adelaide. So just kind of made an album and put it out. Now really smart to write an album during COVID, not smart to release one during COVID. But it was more of, I hadn't managed my expectations about any type of commercial. It was more a passion project. So my big question is, you have these songs, you and Danny, that you're

releasing as Sirlin Graves. Yeah. Why not a new Watchmen album? I know where you're going. Ken's very active. I know. Sammy would love to do it. I'll be honest, our process sometimes is... My fear was that it would just slow down the process and I just wanted to I wanted to just put it out and I didn't want to compromise and I didn't want to deliberate over parts or arrangements or and and just just put it out there now that being said I've written a couple more songs as Danny and those will be Watchmen songs so will there be a new release from the Watchmen? There will be a announcement.

Oh, I don't know if it's an announcement, but we're working on new songs and we're going to take a similar approach to what we did with Surround Graves. We'll probably do them at Vapor. And I don't think we'll wait till we have a full album, but we'll put maybe put it start to put out new material piecemeal. I think that's what tells us back is we have such a traditional sense of how you do it and we need to realize things, times have changed. Well, okay, it's only interesting to me

that you might have the lead singer of the Tragically Hip, Gordowni, might do a solo show and he'll struggle to fill the horseshoe tavern. This is Gordowni. Meanwhile, if he has the tragically hip with him and it's billed as the tragically hip, he can fill up the Scotiabank Arena for like three or four nights in a row.

Like obviously back when the band was active. It would have been, yeah, I know where you're going. Yeah, so you know where I'm going, which is interesting. It's always interesting to me where I sit here as a non-musician, just interested interesting chatting with you guys that Serlin Graves might play like a tmlx event, but The water my point is you do this with the watchmen and people pay attention. Yeah, it's like the brand is everything

Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's the same voice and the same guitarist. Yeah. No, it's true. It's absolutely true. It would have been a Better commercial decision probably to put that out as that's not everything Yeah, I'm also everything but I'm saying this this Watchmen album. I think will make more noise Than Seren graves because it's the Watchmen. Absolutely. Yeah, it will. You know, it was a big fan of yours a big big Fan of yours is Jay on right, you know, do you know this name? So Jay and he had a show on TSN, he still got the show I suppose of course. Dan O'Toole is no longer on the show. Yeah. But Jay Onright grew up in, I gotta get this right, I

always screwed up. Don't correct me till I try this, okay? It's in Alberta, it's near Edmonton. It starts with an A. Athabas, geez, what word am I trying to say? Athabascar, no, that's terrible. It's not where Nickelback's from, is it? No, they're from Hanna, Alberta, I think. This is, I'm gonna have to Google this one. Just Google it.

Terrible, terrible that I'm struggling in the final words here. You know what? I don't say these things. So you don't want to leave things. So he's from, this is a long winded way of me telling you, he's from Athabasca. Oh, you're right.

Don't tell it yourself. I think I was right. But when I said it out loud, it sounded made up to me. But Athabasca, Alberta, huge fan of the Watchmen. So I just popped in my head as I was saying goodbye to you. You were amazing. There's many fans. And I would love to see you at the Danforth Music Hall.

And just let us know. Thanks for doing this. You know, I've now completed the set. I know. I don't know what that gets me. But I have every member of the Watchmen, but you know, there's still one member who didn't visit the basement.

Ken, Ken actually- He wouldn't fit down here, man. Maybe that's why. Maybe we have to record an episode of everybody backstage at the Danforth Music Hall. But thanks for doing this. Oh, thank you. It was a lot of fun. It was a trip. And I apologize to Jay Unright that I could not confidently say Athabasca,

but I'll get it right next time. It's okay. You fixed it. I fixed it. And that... Oh, by the way, what do you think about the number 1700? That's a round number. Your episode 1700. I like it. I like it a lot. That brings us to the end of our 1700th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. Palma Pasta. Don't leave without your lasagna. Minaris. Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. I'm throwing

out the first pitch on Sunday, that's happening, 2pm start, Christie Pitts, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when my special guest is Fiddler and Lindsay. See you all then.