Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - John Doyle: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1822

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

In this 1822nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Globe and Mail TV critic John Doyle about growing up in Ireland, his career at the Globe, Canadian soccer and irritating Canadians. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, RetroFestive.ca and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

My name is John Doyle, and I am a poor but honest man, and right now I'm about to make my Toronto mic debut. Welcome to episode 1,822 of Toronto Mic'd. An award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by retrofestive.ca, Canada's pop culture and Christmas store. Save 10% with the promo code FOTM for a limited time. Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palmaPasta.com for more.

Fusion Corpso, Nick Aini's. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Building Success to podcasts you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.C.A. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. and Redley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike's debut, it's John Doyle.

Great to meet you, John Doyle. Very nice to be here, Mike. It's actually an honor, considering all of the great names you've had here. But enough about Bill Breal. Oh, Bill Brio. Bill is an old friend of mine, a dear friend. friend, and I admire Bill a lot. He's still going with his podcast,

Brio TV online. It's just that he and his partner, Sandra, have moved way out of town. Orangeville, maybe? Is it Orangeville? Shelburne, somewhere out there in the wilds. Because he grew up near Cloverdale Mall because he went to Michael Power High School

a bit before I got there, but we were both graduates of Michael Power High School. So I know he's an atobico guy, but you're right. He has moved up to Orangeville or something like that. Georgetown maybe. Somewhere up there. But Bill Breaux is, you know, still going strong because he just put together a little video about,

and I'm of a vintage where I completely missed this, but there was a rocket ship seven or I think that's what it's called out of Buffalo. When I was growing up, this did not exist. But it would be like nostalgia that I think baby boomers could hook to their veins. and Bill put together a nice video about that. But you didn't grow up around here, did you? No, I did not. So, yeah, that would be way before my time watching TV in Canada.

No, I was born and raised in Ireland. I came to Canada in 1980. I came here as a student, actually. I went to York University. Long story short, those were, kind of desperate days in Ireland the economy was a shambles the troubles in the north were bleeding

into the south where I lived I had done a university degree my professors at the time encouraged me to go further do graduate studies but suggested that I leave Ireland go to the UK, the US Canada so I spent some time looking into that and writing to this is before the internet

when you actually had to write things and type things. Oh, I remember, John. I remember. So the nicest and most engaged response I got was actually from York University here in Toronto. So based on their interest and support for me, I decided to come to Canada and land in Toronto. So you know what's funny, I actually thought you went to University of Toronto, you're telling me you went to York. I did, yes. And that was part of the adventure.

At that time, York was, it was just as remote as it is now. But these days, there's a subway that goes there. Back in those days, it wasn't. Well, back in those days, Black Creek Pioneer Village wasn't just like a historical site. That's just how they rolled up there. Yeah, I, you know, York was smaller. It was remote.

It was cold. um i think you went to wilson station and then got a hope in hope that you got a bus to york u uh i lived on campus for uh quite a while uh that was an interesting part of the adventure too i mean that's your introduction to a canadian winter is on the york u campus you know in november december january but it was fun too because there were a few thousand people living on that campus. And, you know, there were several bars. There were all those things going on on weekends. So, yeah, it, it wasn't total hardship. And I'm curious, what were winters like in Ireland? Like, so, you know, you came to the

door now and it's getting kind of blustery out there. It's windy. I can see some snowflakes. But of course, this is Toronto in December. What would you expect? But what were winters like in Ireland? Well, they were, they still are because I spent a lot of last winter in Ireland. My mother was ill and I was visiting a lot. It gets cold. It rarely snows except for on top of the mountains. It's cold, it's wet, it's windy. Sometimes it doesn't become fully light until 8.30 or 9 in the morning and by 3.30 or 4 it's dark again. And that is one of the striking things about winter and Ireland is there's so little light, it can be, you know, a bit disorienting.

Well, if you suffer from a seasonal effective disorder, that might not be a good landing spot for you. Well, there would be a lot of depressed people in Ireland, I think. Well, listen, you said cold and wet, and that's like, I feel like this is Peewee's Playhouse. You said, that's the magic word. So we have to crack open our Great Lakes beer here, John. So we're going to get into it. You have a premium logger there, but do it right on the mic.

So right in front of that. thing if you can here you go okay that's irish crickets that's what we call that sounded good and i'll crack open my burst so great lakes thank you for sending over the fresh craft beer and john take you're going to take some fresh craft beer home with you today courtesy of great legs just a perfect time of year to bring home some beer well let me let me not stop there so literally two minutes before you arrived palma pasta arrived with lasagna it's a my freezer right now, they sent over a large lasagna for you to take home. Palma pasta.

Oh, excellent. Oh, my God. Did Bill give you the heads up? I'm curious. Did Bill say, hey, if you do Toronto Mike, remember you're going to get lasagna and beer? No, he didn't. No, I'm occasionally in touch with Bill since he moved so far away, but I don't see him as often as I used to.

I'm going to pump my own tires here, John, before we get to know you better. This only happened last night, so this is very fresh news. So we're talking now, it's about, I don't know, 2.23 p.m. on December 19th, 2025. Late last night, I was just, you know, doing my thing. And suddenly I started getting congratulatory notes. So I guess this was around 9 p.m. unbeknownst to me, the Canadian podcast awards were taking place. It was a virtual event.

And I won a, I feel like I'm in a Christmas story now. I won a major award. So, John, I'm just going to play this clip I pulled from the, live feed on YouTube. It's a, not too long here. So this is what happened last night. And the winner is Toronto Mike. Wow, this is an incredible honor.

I thought being nominated was rad enough, but it turns out winning is way better than just being nominated. This is awesome. So outstanding news and current affairs series. What a heavy category. Toronto-Miked, man, what a labor of love this as being. Thanks to the academy, thanks to the listenership, and thanks to everybody who voted for me.

I am truly honored and humbled. Thank you. Presenting Outstanding Science Series. So, John, what happened is they told all nominees to submit like an acceptance speech. So months ago, I recorded that and sent it over. It wasn't script. Obviously, you can tell.

You can tell that wasn't scripted. But, yeah, I completely forgot. But that happened last night. So I won this major award from the Canadian podcast awards. Congratulations, Mike. Well deserved. Enjoy every minute. Oh, thank you.

You know, before I won, I was like poo-pooing the whole thing. Like, oh, who cares? What is this? And then once you win, you're like, oh, this is the most important thing in the history of the world. That's how it works. I haven't won a lot of awards myself. So, you know, you enjoy it. Well, here, you just opened the door once again.

Mr. Doyle because you, I understand, and you can tell me if this is true, you want a gold medal for debating skills in the Gaelic language. Is this true or false? It is true, yes. My father, especially, you know, early in my childhood and teenagers and that, my father was a proponent of bringing the Irish language back into life in Ireland. He was a member of an organization that, you know, proposed that, promoted it. My father actually had a career in community theater, which was taken very seriously at that time in Ireland, as an actor in Irish language plays, and he won awards for his work. At that time, yes, my father encouraged me to learn the Irish language,

and he encouraged me to do things like enter debating competitions and speak in the Irish language. And yes, I did win, I think, a gold medal of sorts for arguing in the old language. Can you speak any Gaelic today? Very little. It diminished over the years. I would say I can talk, you know, pigeon. Irish these days. But I still enjoy the Irish language.

It's a fascinating language. You know, they say it may well be a myth, but that, you know, that indigenous people in the north have like 50 words for snow. Right. Well, in Ireland, they have about 90, in the Irish language, they have about 90 words for rain. They also have 32 words for field.

Wow. Wow. Okay. Now, how many of those 92 words for rain can you ring off the top of your head? Oh, probably one. Tasha Corbosch. Okay. It's pouring out. I'll have to confirm that later with, maybe with,

Ashley McIsaac had a hit in this country. Ashley McIsaac is a fiddler from Cape Breton, and he was on this program earlier this year, kind of a wild episode, actually. But he had a hit called, well, he did a, cover, I guess it's a traditional song, Sleeping Maggie. I know it well.

And it was in Gaelic, like the woman who did the vocals, because he's a fiddler, he's doing the fiddle, and she sang it in Gaelic. That would mostly be Scots Gaelic, the Scottish version of the Irish language, which in Cape Breton,

yes, stayed alive. And there are quite a few people who speak it as their first or second language. Yeah, when you do travel, down east, it does sound like maybe you took a trip to Ireland. So it absolutely being preserved there, which is very cool. Ashley McIsaac in the news yesterday because his AI is spreading lies about him and it's costing him gigs.

So it'll be interesting. I don't know your take. We're going to get into it, but since I said AI, like it'll be interesting to see what happens to journalists and writers for newspapers and whatever newspapers evolve into in the future. future, but what happens with this emergence of AI is quite the disruptor. I don't know if you have any thoughts you want to throw at me before we move on, but... In terms of AI, yes, I mean, it's a big disruptor in a media, especially in news media.

I'm sure that using AI, you could concoct most of the content of a newspaper, like the global Mail or the Star, but given my experience and the kind of work I did at the Globe and Mail for many years, AI cannot fake a columnist's voice,

a columnist tone and the things that a good columnist does. That is, they have recurring jokes, lines, they create characters who come in and out of the column. A.I.

I just can't do that. A writer to can. You mentioned the Globe and Mail there. Okay, you had a long career as a TV critic at the Globe and Mail. But what is your current status? Like, would you, you're officially retired or how would you refer to your current status? I am a writer. I, yes, I left the Globe and Mail three years ago, thereabouts.

and I left at the earliest opportunity really because in part because I had other things to write about six years, six or eight years before I left the Globe and Mail I wrote a play. This was kind of inevitable given my background. I already mentioned my father and his time in acting. and my father encouraged me from a early age to go to the theater. I think maybe the first time I actually saw a play

was when I was four years old in a small town hall in Tipperary in Ireland. When I was there because my father was on the stage, my late sister also was drawn to the theater, wrote up a play that had a brief run in Dublin, and before she passed away, she had adapted two famous Irish short stories for the stage. So about eight years or so ago, I decided I'm going to write a play.

And I wrote it. It was submitted to just two or three people. One person hated it. One person never responded to it. But the third person was Richard Rose, who was then the artistic director at Tarragon Theater. So he got on to me and he said, I think this play is a mess. but there is definitely something there. And I'd like us to sit down with some actors,

do a reading, and let's see what happens. Let's try to take this forward. So that, since then, I've been writing for the theater. That play at Tarragon, we workshopped it for about two years, which was a wonderful experience for me. If you're a writer, even if you're, you know, it's a newspaper columnist, you're mostly working alone.

It's you in a room at a computer. If you're working in the theater, it's collaboration. And I really enjoyed the experience of going to the Tarragon, you know, every day for a week. We're sitting in a room with actors, a director, discussing the play, and coming back a month later, doing it again. So that first play was not produced because COVID came along and shut down. everything in the theater. Right. I revised that it's still sitting there

and I hope it will be produced. Then I wrote a second play which hopefully will be staged here in Toronto probably next in 27 because at the core of the play is the Irish famine crisis

of 1847 here in Toronto. Now I'm thinking about my my friend, I work closely with him. His name is Joel Greenberg. Oh, I know, Joel, yes. I was out having a drink with Joel

just a short while ago. Well, once you said, you know, Tarragon, and you talked about theater, I said, maybe John Doyle knows Joel Greenberg. So I produced Joel's podcast, which is called Life and Stages. I know it well. Okay, so I produced that.

He records that in this basement, so in that very seat. And the funny thing is just yesterday, we confirmed he's doing another season, And we scheduled all the, they're all going to happen in January, February, 2026, but we scheduled all the recordings of this next season, and we're going to batch, record them in early 2026. That's a wonderful coincidence.

I like Joel. He has been very helpful to me over the years with the three different plays I've written. I enjoy getting it together with him. I really like the podcast. He does. I love the stories from actors. who've had a long career and have lots of sharp

and sometimes biting stories to tell about working in the theater and who directed them, who they clashed with, who they got along with, and the thrill of doing the theater. Absolutely. One guest from last season

who was here to do it in person because sometimes they'll join remotely and I'll just have Joel down here, but Benedict Campbell. Yes. And I know his dad, well his dad's no longer with us but he was a very famous actor

but his brother is a chap named Torquil Campbell who is like one half of the founders and leaders of a band called Stars out of Montreal know him well you know him well you see you know all this

okay I'm not telling you anything except off the top of the great song maybe their best song I might like the song the best of all the great star songs but your ex lover is dead that's a beautiful song I guess the it's a story, it's a narrative

and their voices work well together. Yes, the male and female voices joining in together and separating and having different tones. That's the song that includes the taxi ride right in if I've got the right one. Right, well it opens with

Ben Campbell and Torquill Campbell's father was it John Campbell? it's a big heavy name like that I gotta get that name right but his big voice because he had this great voice saying something like this when there's nothing left to lose

you set yourself on fire so I have Benedict down here and he's chatting up here and I'm Benedict like this guy sounds just like his dad it's unbelievable how much Benedict sounds like his dad and I said Benedict would you do me a favor

would you record something for me so here's five seconds of Ben Campbell just after he talked to Joel Greenberg for life and stages. When there's nothing left to burn, you listen to Toronto, Mike. Isn't that amazing? That's great.

That's lovely, yes. And another part of the very talented Campbell clan is Dera Campbell, the actor. She's done a few movies, acclaimed performances. We actually attempted to tempt. her to auditioning for a play that I wrote. Well, that's such a small world, all of this, actually, right? It's crazy small.

And I think his name is Douglas Campbell, the patriarch of this family. Does that sound right to you? Yeah, Douglas Campbell. So I think I called them like John Campbell earlier. Okay, so yeah, so Douglas Campbell, who passed away in 2009, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. I have a measuring tape for you, John Doyle, that was sent over by Ridley Funeral Home,

who have been pillars of this community since 1921. so you can take that home with you too. Always useful to have. Oh, you can never know. You've got to measure something, absolutely. So where was I going? So yeah, I just wanted to tell the world about Joel Greenberg recording a new season. One of the biggest fans of Life and Stages, and I'm encountering them all over.

Like, he's going to win a podcast award next, is Lorne Honnickman, who just, I don't think it's a secret anymore, but he absolutely adores the theater. And he loves hearing from these actors and these directors that he knows from the Canadian theater scene. and they get those deep dives with Joel. So shout out to Lauren Honnickman. All right, questions for you, John, as we walk through this. One is, what did you take at York? I was supposed to do a PhD in English.

My alleged topic was a dissertation about modern Irish fiction by women writers and tying that the narrative, the novels, the stories told by women writers, with changes in Irish society, that is, changes to laws about marriage, about divorce, about contraception, about the different shifts in Ireland in the 20th century and that being reflected in fiction written by women.

That dissertation did not get. Okay, because I'm curious how you end up at the Globe and Mail and maybe on our way to that. We've got to get to the Globe here and find out this story. But I did read somewhere when I was researching that you did work in radio and television before you started at the Globe. So I would love to know a little detail about that, if you don't mind.

Well, yes, I worked at the campus radio station at York, C-H-R-Y. uh worked there for a while i think it was might have been the news director for a while um i also one of my first jobs in journalism was uh i was a researcher for a few months on canada a m at c tv yeah um that it was a temporary position somebody was off sicker away um but the the way i fell into journalism was actually kind of odd. So I came here in 1980, and if you remember the early 1980s, there was a recession.

Things were not great in Canada, there was higher unemployment in Ontario, things shifted. And at the time, one of the things that the provincial government of the time enacted was a rule that foreign students could not work outside of the campus that they were, that they belonged to. So, you know, I was a TA at York, which was, you know, for about, you know, seven or eight months of the year. But because of this new regulation, I could not be like other students and work as a waiter or work in a factory, whatever, to earn money to stay alive. but there was

no prohibition on doing what I decided to do which was freelance writing while I was at university in Ireland I had done some things for the campus paper and I read a lot

I read a lot of journalism so I decided to pitch pieces written by me here in Toronto to I began with newspapers and magazines in Ireland, in the UK, and some of that was successful because I was so, let's say it's the 1980s, TIF is just beginning, the Toronto Film Festival.

Oh, the Festival of Festival. Yes, yeah, the festival, when it was the Festival of Festivals. I was able to get, as a student journalist, I was able to get a media pass to that. I could see screenings, attend press conferences, so I could write a piece for a magazine in Ireland, about a movie that in advance of the movie coming to movie theaters in Ireland and the UK, I was able to sell pieces like that. And then when I had a portfolio of pieces done for magazines and papers over there, I was able to send that portfolio to newspapers and magazines in Canada

and make suggestions about, you know, opinion columns, whether it was about the arts, politics, whatever. But because I'd been published, I was, you know, they were taken seriously. I got quite a few things published. Nothing paid very well, but it certainly kept me going. And what happened is that while I was freelancing, a friend of mine mentioned to me that he knew this guy who was the new editor of the TV magazine at the Globe and Mail, and I should approach him because he was looking for new writers, new voices, I did. He, he liked that, that man's name is John Fitzgerald, to whom I will always be very grateful.

A wonderful man, a wonderful editor. And I, pretty soon, after I met him and started pitching to him, I was writing every week for the Global Mail's TV magazine. Is this broadcast week? That was, broadcast week is what it was called, yes. And me and Fitzgerald and some of the other contributors, we basically decided we're going to make this an important part of the Globe and Mail. We're going to make it fun. We're going to write about television in a new way.

We're going to concentrate on interesting television. And we pretty much succeeded. And after a while, I was hired by Broadcast Week on a contract. I worked for about six months for the Globe. Then I was writing a weekly column. And eventually, I was hired full-time by the Globe and Mail, and I was working full-time at Broadcast Week. And then during the newspaper war,

as you remember when the National Post was launched and the Globe, the Star of the Post, were battling for readers and were willing to do new and interesting things in that period. In that period, I was made the television critic for the for the newspaper and writing five columns a week about television but um the the globe was good to me at that time they didn't uh rain me in they allowed me to sort of write about anything I felt like amazing I'm gonna shout out Brad Wheeler and just

if Brad's listening I think Brad's listening he listens to Toronto Mike Brad came on I co-hosted a show with Mark Hebscher called Hebsy on sports and Brad came on that show but I was denied, politely denied, when I invited Brad Wheeler on Toronto Mike. So I'm just telling Brad, let's do it, buddy. Brad's an interesting guy. I really like Brad. I like his writing. I'm glad he's still there at the globe.

And he's still there. And, you know, he can be a very elegant writer. He can be funny. He's very good at capturing the spirit of people that he interviews. Also, speaking to spirit. I find he's very good at some of the people I try to spotlight. So when a big celebrity dies and the whole world is writing about this person, mourning this person, whatever,

but there are these key Canadian figures that will pass away. And I'll look around and I'll be the only one who's sort of doing something about it. But then if you give it a little time, something beautiful from Brad Wheeler is going to show up in the global mail. Like I think he does a great job on these obituaries. He does, yes. He's thoughtful. and he does excellent research

and you know when you read Brad, you know what he's talking about. And to pump some more Brad Wheeler tires here, I'll pick on somebody like Alexander Mayer from Attic Records, for example. Like if, and I think this actually happened, that's why I'm pointing out this one, but Brad will, he'll listen to, you know,

Al Mayer talking to me on Toronto Mike and he'll, in his obituary, he'll credit me. Like a lot of people use me for research. And there's zero credit given, right? It's just something on the internet that they pulled down. But Brad Wheeler goes out of his way to make sure as heard on Toronto mic or something to that effect. So I just want Brad to know I appreciate that gesture.

So shout out to Brad Wheeler. Another guy, I just want to ask you. So we're going to talk a bit more about the globe, obviously. But when you do leave in 2022, you had other things to do. But is it at all a story similar to the story? David Schultz tells me where he's in a meeting and they offer up packages and he leaps out of his seat, like six feet out of his seat and says, okay, me, me, me?

That was not my situation. No, there was no package on offer at that time. By the way, I do know Dave Schultz. Dave used to write for broadcast week back in the day. He wrote a column about sports on TV, which was always funny, much liked. Probably talked about Hebsey. And then as part of my career at,

the globe. I was asked to write about soccer and I covered several World Cups. Euro tournaments, wrote a book about my travels for covering soccer and I fell in with a gang of sports writers too and Dave Schultz was part of that. Lovely guy, Dave. I actually got a very interesting question for you which I'm going to, I was going to save it till I warm me up a little more here. but a question about soccer from a Canadian footy fan. Maybe I'll hit you with it right now since I've teased it here. Okay.

So is it possible, Mr. Doyle, that you've been a bit tough on Canadian soccer fanatics? I don't think so. No. I've been writing about soccer since 2001, 2002. I've, I don't think I've been tough. No, I, what a person or if somebody suggested this line of talk. Well, I can quote him if you like, because I, this is, you know, I didn't pay close enough attention.

But a gentleman named Mike, rather common name, that could be me, but it's not me, okay? Mike writes in, I can recall one time during an international window at the football factory where the Voyagers had an infotable set up and John Doyle. stop by, just to offer his disdain for those who follow or support Canadian soccer. And he says, it was not a surprise as it was practically one of the themes of his book. He goes, I'd send in a specific question, but I can't think of a polite way of asking, why were you such a prick? I wasn't.

There is no truth to this line of questioning at all. I have long admired Canadian soccer supporters. I was writing about them when the sport was largely dismissed and reduced to tiny coverage at the back of the sports section. The only harsh things I might have said was, I recall dealing with some soccer fans, I don't remember that incident. the voyageurs at the football factory and me going in, I think, to pick up a ticket for a Canada

International that was being played at Bimo Field. I don't remember expressing disdain. The one thing I might have written about that irritated people was that there certainly at one time there was an assumption that if, say, you were Italian or Portuguese and male in Toronto, that gave you immediate authority to talk about soccer. And that was something that, yeah, I disdained that. I mean, I thought that's just wrong. You don't have a monopoly on knowledge of soccer, on tactics, on the game itself, just because of your background.

Loads of people from many, many countries are soccer fanatics. And in Toronto being Italian or Portuguese, or Portuguese, doesn't make you an authority. Well, I'm glad we could clear this up, John. Like, this is a good opportunity. You could stand up for yourself because I got that note. And I felt it was fair game because it's nothing too personal there, just suggesting that you, quote, unquote, disdain for those who support Canadian soccer.

And it's good to hear your side of that. So thank you for that. Thank you for that. I point out, I've made my way up to York University towards York United. I've seen AFC Toronto. I mean, I'm part of the soccer community in Toronto. And, no, this idea of me being harsh or being a prick. No, I reject that.

And you're those, AFC, for example, you're watching as a fan not necessarily. You're not there to cover it. I'm not, no, I'm not covering soccer right now. So I'm there as a fan. I'm there with the supporters. I'm there with the people singing the songs. and chanting, and enjoying the game.

Beautiful. Will you possibly be enjoying any World Cup matches at the, well, they can't call it BMO, you know? No, they can't. It's the Canada National Soccer Stadium or something. Yeah, I've been through that before. I mean, I remember being in Portugal covering Euro 2004. And, you know, you get in a taxi.

and to go to the stadium and I would use whatever the official term was that UEFA had concocted for the tournament. And they're like, what are you talking about? And the driver's like, what? Oh, you mean where the, you know, I said, yeah, yeah, he said, okay.

Well, I know that. That's funny. With the World Cup, I mean, I don't know what's going to happen. I doubt, you know, I'm, I am tempted to offer my services to an outlet to cover some of the games here. I, you know, because I have been writing about soccer since, you know,

for a quarter century, and my book about soccer was a national bestseller. Well, let me name check it here. It's a, the world is a ball, the joy, madness, and meaning of soccer. That's the one. Thank you for mentioning the title. Well, you can still get this book. right, you know, and I feel like some of the casual fans will just come online for what's happening next summer in the city. Yes, I mean, you know, one of the things that I write about

in the book is how much fun it is, like what tournaments mean in terms of the mood, the vibe, the atmosphere, I mean, how, you know, these are rare in the contemporary world to have these, you know, when a soccer tournament is on, whether it's the Euro or the World Cup, there's something very benign about it. Everybody is suddenly engaged with the game.

In the tournaments, it's a thing I say in the book is, you know, over all the tournaments I covered, and in total, I covered soccer from 17 countries on four continents. I never once felt afraid. I never thought

there's going to be violence here. I should get out of here, I never had that experience. There is something gloriously benign and calming about a tournament, because everybody's there not just to support their team, but they're there to celebrate the game. And the game of soccer is one of the very few things in our world that crosses all boundaries, countries, religions. You can, you know, it doesn't matter if you're in Iran or Iraq or in the USA and you're a soccer fan you know the rules of the game

you know the famous players you anyone can have a conversation about soccer and that's a really good thing this is not confirmed or it's not official yet but let's say Canada faces off against

Italy in the World Cup in Toronto I'm just curious okay because I had who did I have over Andy Petrillo who is well known to sports followers in the same. I had her, she is a born here, but of Italian descent. And I, this is before we knew how possible this would be, right? I speculated, like, what would you do if Canada faces Italy in the World Cup? And she's, she's completely torn. And I don't know,

to me, that's disappointing. Like, she's, uh, born in Canada, has been living in Canada, but if Canada faces Italy, she's not sure she'll cheer for Canada. Like, what do you think happens in the city if that match takes place at the place that I'm going to call BMO and FIFA can call it whatever the hell they want. What you're describing, Mike, is probably what will happen, is that people will be torn. But in a good way, I think. You know, I mean, because underneath all of this

is the fact that Canada is a multicultural country in which you bring the culture from your home country here, and that's okay. So, you know, Canada, Italy at BMO is a mouth-watering possibility. And it, you know, it would be a glorious event. And, you know, one of the most historic events in the history of this city. But, you know, I would put a little warning in there. there's no guarantee that Italy will make it

that the playoffs are tough and although you know they may people they might have to play I think they will play Northern Ireland tiny country not a great number of first class soccer players but very determined I mean Northern Ireland has

qualified for the World Cup before and you know in those playoff circumstances answers, all bets are off. Right. Now, one little footnote I'll give you. I think I'm right about this. Gattuso, who is the manager of Italy right now,

he met his wife in Toronto. He was playing for, I believe, Glasgow Rangers for a brief time. They played an exhibition game in Toronto. And as part of the celebrations and the meet and greets in that, he met the woman who became his wife. So there are all kinds of things. complicated connections between Italy and Toronto. And the Rangers, that's Alan Thruz team, am I right?

From Glass Tiger. I feel like that's his team, but... Should be. Well, if you're Scottish, it's either Celtic or Rangers. Pretty sure it's right. I know just enough to be dangerous over here when it comes to, you know, you're in Peter Football. But why?

Because again, I know, like I said, legit. I'm not like Mike who wrote in and lives and breathes. and I know he went to Qatar to see Canada play. Like, he's a diehard. I know just enough to be dangerous, but why would a country like Italy, which I always think of as a football powerhouse, why are they in such a World Cup drought here?

Because they missed the last two, right? And they might miss this one. How does that happen? Because Canada, in hockey, isn't going to go three, isn't going to go in Olympics. I know it's less countries play hockey, Mike. It's not even close. But why would Italy be in such a drought?

that's a it's a complicated issue like um we'll need an extra hour for that one we'll try to cover it in a couple of minutes i mean italian soccer is not the powerhouse it was i mean this this also happens at the club level um the big teams uh uventus ac milan uh roma uh nappoli latio um are not the powerhouses of european soccer that they once were i think there's been a certain amount of stagnation in developing soccer in Italy. I think some of the club teams rest on their laurels. They don't invest as much in bringing in young players in having an academy to train and educate young players

at the highest level. I think they're a bit backward in youth development compared to what they do in France and indeed in England these days. So I think, you know, if somebody in the organization in Italy realizes this, it can change, you know, in a decade. But right now, Italy is like a mid-level power. Okay. Interesting.

But I do root for them to qualify for the World Cup because I am like very excited to have Canada versus Italy here in Toronto. Like it's almost like pinch me. This is while this is happening. And that feels very big to me. I would love to see it too So come on I mean with all due respect

Northern Ireland Who else is in this tournament That could go through Northern Ireland And Italy Wales Bosnia Hertzcovenia That's about all I can think about The top of my head

But you know This is a 48 team World Cup This is the biggest World Cup That's ever been So that opens up Brutes to the World Cup for smaller countries and they will take advantage of that

and if you're from a small country the motivation to get to the World Cup is enormous and I you know Italy might not be able to overcome that incredible motivation the impetus of a tiny that a tiny country has that if they make the World Cup

I mean they are legends Wow. Wow. How do you think Canada does? And it means specifically, will we finally win a World Cup match in 2026? Oh, we will. Okay. Definitely.

I actually felt that way in Qatar, but again, I only know enough to be dangerous. But at least we scored a goal in Qatar. We did score a goal. I mean, I was a bit disappointed with Canada's performance, the man's performance at the World Cup in Qatar. I'm not sure that John Hurdman, who was then in charge of things. I'm not sure he planned it well. People, I mean, I remember, you know, I had a speaking engagement out west on Salt Spring

Island, actually. And they invited me to talk about soccer because that Qatar World Cup was coming soon. And people were telling me, okay, Canada is going to play, you know, Belgium and Morocco and Croatia. And they were thinking, okay, you know, Morocco is probably the one we can win because, well, Morocco's not a great soccer power. I remember saying at that event on Salt Spring Island, I said, our best bet is Belgium. Now, if you look simply at the rankings, Belgium would be in the top five, and people would say, well, that's one we should be afraid of. My take was that when Canada played Belgium at that World Cup, the Belgian players were coming off at very

long season in Europe and these are top players and top teams and they would be the sort of team that is relying on their star power. They always take a bit of time to get the engine going at a tournament. We could have beaten Belgium I think at that World Cup had the tactics been a bit more forceful than shrewd but I still, you know, I remember the run

to qualify for the World Cup under Hurdman and those matches at BMO. Those were glory days. Must see TV. Absolutely. Every time. Absolutely here. Quick pause to tell you, John,

and all the listeners, so we're recording on December 19th, and there's a rather big holiday happening six days from now. It'll be Christmas. And it's not too late to go to retrofestive.com. If you use the promo code, FOTM, you save 10%.

I have a quote from Google reviews from a Francis. Francis writes, I use their online store every year, especially for cool stalking stuffers. They are well stocked

and always have quick delivery. So follow Francis's lead here, get some Christmas gifts from Canada's pop culture and Christmas store, retrofestive.ca. And if you don't want to do it online

and save that 10%, you can always go to the Oakville store. So shout out to RetroFestive. and I also want to thank for his support. Nick Iini's from Fusion Corp. He stepped up to help fuel this real talk. So Nick, part of that Canadian podcast award belongs to you, brother. But Nick's got a couple of podcasts.

You should listen to Building Toronto Skyline and Building Success. One guest on Building Success was a chap named Keith Stein. He's an entrepreneur. He's involved in a whole whack of cool stuff. But one of the things he's involved in is the Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball team that plays at Christy Pits and this new woman's baseball league that's going to launch next year. And John, I didn't mention

this off the top, but I was chatting with Keith. We have occasional conversations and he said to me, Mike, I would love to hear John Doyle on your show. And I said, I would love to hear John Doyle my show. And that's when I reached out. So Keith Stein was the spark. Well, thanks to you and Keith. It's an

honor to be here and I'm enjoying myself. Well, good. And one more piece of advice here. And then we're going pump your tires for a bit and then I got a few more questions. But if you, John Doyle, have old cables, old phones, old electronics, maybe you've got them in a drawer at home or in a closet, maybe you've got a whole room full of them. Do not throw that in the garbage because the chemicals in those devices end up in our landfill. You need to go to recycle myelectronics.c.a. Put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it off to be properly recycled.

So thank you, recycle myelectronics.ca.ca. Recyclemyelectronics.ca has confirmed. They're going to support and sponsor this program for all of 2026, which is amazing. And I'll just take this opportunity to say this award-winning podcast has room for another partner. And if you're interested, please write me, Mike at Torontomike.com. And we can chat about it. Be fun to work together. So, John, I'm going to pump your tires because I pump mine off the top.

I said I won that big award last night. You won a couple of Globe and Mail awards for your writing. Is that right? Yes, I did. These were internal awards. You know, I was kind of like, you know, employee of the ear equivalents. Well, if you get a McDonald's or... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, one was a writing award, which in journalism, when it's certainly inside the globe was prestigious. and I was honored to write it. Funnily enough, that was 2006. And in part, I was given that award because I had at that point, I covered three soccer tournaments. I covered the World Cup in Japan and South Korea, 2002,

Euro, 2004 in Portugal, and the World Cup in Germany in 2006. Shortly afterwards, One of the top managers at the globe decided I shouldn't be writing about soccer at all. Which was odd, but, you know, because she was senior figure in the paper, the editor sort of went along with her.

So I went through this strange period where I would, at that point I had a contract to write a book about soccer, which, you know, was going to come out in 2010, and I had a budget for travel and everything. So I would send a note to the sports desk saying, you know, next week I'm going to be in Europe. I'm going to, I'm going to Slovakia, where Slovakia will play the Czech Republic.

You know, they used to be the same country. Yeah, that's quite a question. They have to play each other to qualify for the World Cup. Are you interested in a piece about that? And we, well, no, John, no, it's okay. We'll just take wire for that. So then I would go and cover it for the New York Times. It was very odd, period.

By coincidence, when that decision came down, that, you know, I really shouldn't be writing about soccer because it was not my job. My job was to write about television. I had just got a note from the New York Times, from an editor at the New York Times to say, Hey, you know, I've been reading your writing about soccer, you know, you're good. You know, I love the way you do it, the style you do it at.

This is just a note from an admirer. So when that decision that came down that I shouldn't really be writing about soccer for the globe, I contacted New York Times. And in 72 hours, they said, okay, you're on board. What's your angle for, you know, for, I was just about to go to England, to watch England play World Cup qualifying game. I think, against Uzbekistan. And Times wrote to me and said,

okay, what's your angle for that piece? And what time will we see it? So, you know, I wrote dozens of pieces about soccer with New York Times before I came back to writing about it for the globe when the person who had sort of banned me moved on. Right. Well, let me ask you.

This might be a question you get asked frequently, I would think, when people talk with John Doyle, but it's been well publicized that there was a beef with Fox Newses at the time. Anyways, he was a Foxx. It was Bill O'Reilly. So finally, I have John Doyle on the program

to speak to this. What do you remember about the Bill O'Reilly beef? It was a strange, a strange, and at the time, weird, but weirdly thrilling. I, at that point, there was a move

in the broadcasting industry in Canada to make Fox News available in Canada and there was a lot of talk about this I had seen Fox News in the States and when I went to L.A. for work you watch Fox News on the hotel room and you could easily find a lot of Fox content online on YouTube and that.

So I began writing about Fox News and in a, you know, in a gentle but mocking way saying there's nothing to be afraid of if Fox News comes to Canada. You really your best response is to laugh because so much of it is extreme and, you know, Canadians, I don't think, will be big fans of Fox News

because we're not that kind of people. Bill O'Reilly, who then was like pretty much number one on Fox News, he picked up on this because I guess Fox News at the time was thinking we're going into Canada you know we have to prepare for this so O'Reilly came across what I'd written and on air started answering me and you know saying John this John Doyle I mean that crank at the far left globe and mail newspaper in Canada is saying that Canadians will laugh at Fox News well get over yourself don't you know i mean this that's kind of stuff that fox news still does right so i started getting

i mean some of his fans found me online i started getting hundreds of emails from fox viewers billerriding fans you know telling me i'm an asshole i'm a jerk i you know what do canadians know about anything um and and you know i i sort of kept up the this little battle and i wrote about the fact I thought I was getting this ugly nail from Fox viewers, and O'Reilly responded to that. And this went on for about two weeks. I wasn't writing about it every day, but then what happened is that I remember it was a Thursday,

and I got a call in my office of the global mail from the New York Times, saying from one of the senior editors there saying, I've been following this battle between you and Bill O'Reilly at Fox, And really, it's a fascinating story because it sort of delineates the difference between Canada and the United States. Will you share some of the mail, the hate mail you've got? And I said, yes.

So I spent most of that Thursday working with a senior guy at the New York Times, filtering, you know, the hate mail and some of my reactions to it, sent it to him. And that ended up as a feature in the Sunday New York Times. Wow.

With a big, big readership. Yes. And what was funny out of that, was as soon as that New York Times piece appeared, I started getting thousands of emails from Americans who had read the piece in the New York Times to say, we're so sorry. Yeah.

Really, we're sorry. Don't think that Fox News fans and Bill O'Reilly are representative of Americans? They're not, Mr. Doyle, really, you know? They're not. So, you know, it became this, you know, international situation. Right. I think this was before everybody was on the internet.

And, you know... Before Twitter. Before Twitter, yes. So if it happened today, it would be, you know, a big international incident. But, you know, for those days, it was big enough. And a lot of people suddenly heard about me. Thanks to Bill O'Reilly and thanks to Bill O'Reilly. and thanks to the New York Times.

Well, everybody loves a good fight, right? So I was like this is good for all parties involved, I suppose. But you've never met Bill O'Reilly, have you? No, I haven't. And, of course, you know, Bill O'Reilly eventually left Fox News under a cloud, you might say. I do recall, I do recall. Also, people probably today, at least, yeah, people probably know Bill O'Reilly best from the, fuck it, I'll do it live.

I'll do it live! which I think is great. Yeah, he's still around. I'm not sure he's made the comeback he would have liked, but yeah, he's still around. He's a voice out there in the, you know, in the cranky right-wing American news media. We knew him as the hard copy guy.

Anyways, that's how I knew him as the hard copy guy here. So since we're going through a couple of the controversies, in 2010, you argued that the Giller Prize and the Gemini Awards were elitist. Do you still feel that? way, although they're not called Gemini's anymore. Did I actually use the word elitist? Let me see. I can go to the source, but

what do you recall? What do you recall? I think what happened with the Giller Awards, which annoyed the people who run the family who run the Giller Awards, what I said was that, you know, the it was terrible television.

It was as simple as that. I mean, it was a great boost for the Giller, for the awards and for the books nominated, books and authors nominated, that it was on television. But when the show actually happened, not just as a critic, but as a TV watcher, as a consumer, I thought, you know, this is really badly done. And they should put more effort into having a show that's fun, that's informative. It was very stagy. It was stayed. And I simply argued that if you're going to put a book award show on television, then make it lively, make it better.

The Gemini Awards, well, the Gemini became the Canadian Screen Awards. Yes. They merged it with the Genies, right? Yes, yes. And I do remember that period because when it was the Gemini Awards, it too would mean for a television award show, it wasn't very entertaining. it was stayed and it was sort of the usual suspects and actually um we talked earlier about

our mutual friend bill brillo um bill and i and a couple of those canadian actors were approached on the QT by the academy uh that runs the run that ran the Geminize and the film awards and that and we had a chat with them And Bill and I suggested, you know, put the Gemini's and the film awards, put them together, have screen awards, you know. Just make it, you know, have, at that point, Canadian TV stars would have been bigger than Canadian movie stars. So you use television to boost the movies and, you know, have as much star power as you can. But again, make it entertaining. Because the Gemini Awards often did come across as a very, you know,

dour CBC production. Well, they took your advice. They did. Like they listened. Well, it made sense. It made total sense for them, too. Okay. Very interesting.

Now, this one's a bit more sensitive, but I actually, myself, and I've recorded 1,800 and something episodes, but there has been times in the past where I've used a term that I thought meant something. and then somebody felt it meant something else, but I was completely ignorant. So ignorance, you know, legit ignorance. But I'm curious about the fallback. So the Great Canadian Baking Show, you called Dan, yeah,

yeah, Dan Levy, Eugene Levy's son. The term you used was Faye, F-E-Y, Faye. And Levy argued, and a CBC critic as well, that that's a homophobic term. So, like, what do you think of the word Faye being used as a homophobic term? Well, that's two questions in one. Yeah, yeah. Well, you separate them.

You separate them. I remember that incident, and there is a whole context for it. I probably shouldn't have used the word. As to whether it's literally and emphatically homophobic, I don't think so. I mean, people can argue that. But, you know, in the general population, I don't think everybody would agree with that. The, you know, I wrote many hundreds of columns. You write five columns a week for like, you know, 10 months of a year.

You're going to make mistakes. That column, like others, went through two editors at the Global Mail on the desk. Neither one flagged anything in that column. And Dan Levy then went. No, it was his, it began with his sister. Levy went overboard about that column. And the context there is that the very first episode of Schitt's Creek was sent to me when Schitt's Creek was debuting on CBC. And I think I was only sent one episode, which is odd.

but in Canada that happens usually you get you know three four to six episodes whatever it was only sent one and I I watched it and I didn't like it I thought as most people realize now the early episodes of shit

I didn't like episode one either in fact I've taken a couple of runs at this program and I nope out pretty quick because it doesn't feel like a great show off the top I don't know I'm totally gets better it wasn't it was a pretty poor show at the beginning and what I said in my review was this is a one joke

show. I mean that it seems to be there's just one joke and there's all this stuff around it but it's really just one joke it was a negative review um Dan Levy was furious and after that review appeared

an odd thing happened I got an email from a senior CBC executive and it took me a minute to realize what was going on because it was from our personal email account. It wasn't a CBC account

telling me how upset Dan Levy was about the review and that you know I maybe I was too harsh and I should be aware of how upset he was I think that from then onwards

Dan Levy had it in for me. He was going to damage me in some way if he could and you know, when you write for a newspaper, you have a pulpit, you have a voice, but you're also vulnerable. You can be, you are very vulnerable putting yourself out there. And you're particularly vulnerable, I think, to powerful families. And in Canada, a lot of power rests with certain families. I remember, this is a sidebar to this. I remember, I'm writing about Ben Mulroney.

when he was hosting, began hosting television. And if you wrote anything about, negative about Ben Mulroney... Canadian Idol. Yes, Canadian Idol. If you wrote anything negative about it, the editor heard from Brian Mulroney, from the former Prime Minister. And that, you know, I can scare some editors.

In the case of Levy, it was his whole family. His sister got on to my editor at the Globe to tell my editor how upset. uh, Dan Levy's mom was, his dad. And, and then friends of Levy started agitating online. And really, it wasn't about a word in the calm. It was about putting the newspaper guy in his place. But if you could go back in time, you might use a different term than Fay.

Oh, sure. Sure. But, you know, if you write, you, you, if you're right, if you broadcast like you do, yeah, you, you know, you make mistakes. At least you can edit. I refuse to edit Toronto Mike. This is both the greatest thing about it and the worst thing about it. Well, yes. I mean, I, but, you know. But you said it. It was, you know, the editors didn't flag it or whatever happens in the newspaper world here.

Okay. And I was never asked to apologize or explain or anything. You know, the newspaper was a bit spooked by the number of people around the Levy family who were agitating about me. But, you know, that was the end of that. You move on, you write the next column. One of your columns at the end of a year, and we're in the end of 2025 here, but you would write about the 10 most irritating Canadians.

Oh, yes. That was fun. Do you think you were too hard on the Canadian tire guy? We don't have them around anymore, but the Canadian tire guy was a fixture, especially at this time here. Well, that was always a fun column to write. And it wasn't, you know, the top 10 most,

Canadians, television-related. Right. That always was not just me. Before that list appeared, when readers would contact me, and I was very proud of the fact that, you know, I stayed in touch with readers, and they phoned, the email, I always try to keep in, you know, in contact with people and ask people, you know, what shows you watching like how many channels do you have you know have you seen this to get information from real people readers so i would when readers would contact me whether it was asking um you know

should i invest in getting that cable channel and you know what do you think mr doyle and and i would i would ask people well you know what's the most irritating thing about tv right now uh you know what's what really irritates you i mean are there commercials that you hate right and i a whole bunch of people said that Canadian tire guy. He was polarizing. He is just, you know, if I see that guy one more time, you know, I, I just turn down the volume. I want to change the channel. 100%.

Yeah. So, you know, I don't think I was, I was harsh on him. No, my tongue was in my cheek with that one. I thought coming off the heavy Dan Levy talk there, maybe a Canadian tire guy, because absolutely I wrote about him on my little blog, but the Canadian tire seemed like he was just in your face all the time. And this is a time looking back when I would see ads. The only ads I see now are when I watch live sports. Well, it's true.

Yes. I mean, there is a different, there's a whole different vibe about television now. It used to be that commercials were, there were commercials that everybody saw. And you could make conversation with people who you didn't really know about, oh, that awful commercial. Because everyone watched ER last night. Yes. Yeah, those were the days. Those were the days.

Oh, we just lost Meathead. My goodness gracious, what a tragedy that was, Rob Reiner. Yes. A great man as an artist, you know, as an actor, as a director. Did you mean him? No, I've never met him. I've been in the same room with him. When I was a television critic for the globe

and I would go to Los Angeles for the press tours, that were usually on twice a year and I would usually go to one of them those were good events you learned a lot as a writer as a consumer about television the industry and you also got to meet people

you know who create television the bosses who run networks and streamers and that you know and I'm pretty sure Reiner was a speaker at one of those events. Now, so you're obviously retired from the Globe and Mail as their television critic in 2022.

We talked about that earlier, but I know many a, I'm going to use my words carefully, many a great writer in this market that took a package and quote unquote retired. Okay, I'm now thinking of people that were, like Ben Rayner, for example, they were, and Peter Howell, these are a couple of guys who've been over here. Ben's going to be on the show next, no, two weeks from now. We're going to catch up with Ben Rayner. who's in the Maritimes right now living. But these are chaps who did resurface in their paper,

the Toronto Star, as freelancers. Like, so can we still, will we still read John Doyle in the Globe and Mail? I doubt it, to be honest with you, Mike. The Globe hasn't, you know, been in touch with me to say, oh, you know, could you write a few things first or anything? And newspapers are strange beasts. I know, you mentioned Ben Raynor. Ben, you know, I used to see Ben, okay, a big soccer fan, Toronto FC fan.

He and I would go to, occasionally go to a bar and watch Toronto FC play if they weren't playing at home. Peter Howell, too. The star is the star, I think, at a certain point, realized that they had let go or gotten rid of some key people. Peter Howell, being, you know, near the top of that list of first-rate movie critic, a good writer. Ben also on the topic of music. So the star brought, you know, brought some people back. The globe isn't that kind of paper. All newspapers are different, but newspapers can be slightly crazy places

where there are, you know, there are feuds, arguments, there were hate-ons. I wrote a very popular con for the Globe and Mail. But there were people who did not like the fact that the TV Critics' Com was often the most red thing in the paper. I remember, one instance, being told about this by a senior editor at the Globe, I had picked up on a show called Outlander, which was based on a series of very popular,

novels. And I had seen the pilot for it when I was in Los Angeles, and I was impressed. I knew this is a different kind of show. It's a romance, but it's also there's something going on here. That's really tricky, but it grabs you. And I wrote about, during that trip to L.A., when I saw the Outlander pilot, I put something online, probably on Twitter, saying, I've just seen a really good pilots for Outlander and within an hour i got replies i got replies from new zealand got replies from australia and these were from people who were fans of the books and were anxious to know about the tv version right so i wrote i think when it actually aired then um i wrote a column about outlander and uh i praised it word went around among outlander fans that there was

this piece in the Globe and Mail in Canada about the show. That was the most red piece in the paper and I was told by a senior editor that when she went into the morning meeting at the Globe and Mail where all of the department heads gatherer

and the editor-in-chief is there and they're setting the news agenda for the day, the first thing the editor-in-chief said when he went into the meeting was what is Outlander? Why is John Doyle's call him the most red thing in my paper.

So, you know, there will be people who will resent you because... Well, you're not on their speed dial at this point, perhaps. Okay, well, that's... I've got to say, one thing that you did allude to, but we didn't name it. I feel like we should name it, is a great feast of light growing up Irish in the television age. You wrote that, you published that. That was your first book.

You published that in 2005, and it's about your life in conservative rural Ireland. a little early to write that memoir, I would think. I'm proud of that book. I think it's a good book. People I've come across recently in the theater world who do a bit of research on me, come across a great Feast of Light and read it, come to me and say,

it's a lovely book, you know, it's beautifully done. It's a memoir, but it's about a specific time. I mean, it's essentially about the 1960s, and early 70s in Ireland at the time when television arrived and television changed Irish society dramatically. Urge the listenership

to check that out. How was your Great Lakes beer? Was it tasty? It is excellent. It's a lovely crisp Pilsner type beer. I'm enjoying it. So you got the premium logger, but I will shout out. They have a super light logger, which is also tasty, but it's only like 3.2.

percent alcohol or something, so it's a lot lighter. And much love to Great Lakes, and I'm going to send you home with that beer there. And on our way out here, I want to just tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed the chat with you, John Doyle. I love this. Thank you, Mike. I thoroughly enjoyed it, too. It's a treat to talk to somebody like yourself who apparently knows all of these people

that I know. Well, listen, it's a small world out there. I didn't even bring up, like, Antonia or Rob Salem and all these other cats I've had over talking about the scene. People I know. People I know. I hope Rob Salem is doing well. I saw him at the Ron James stand-up. I was at two weeks ago. Him and Rita were there. And they're both in this, they're both in the, because Rita Zika hasn't actually been on Toronto Mike. She was going to be, and she didn't make.

But Rob is bringing her over here in January. Oh, good, good. There you go. I'm glad to hear it. It's a big Superman fan. I hope you know that. Okay, so thank you, John Doyle. Love it.

We're going to take a photo by Toronto Tree in a moment, and I'm going to get your lasagna. This was a great fun. And that brings us to the end of our 1,800 and 22nd show. It only took me 1,822 shows to get to John Doyle from the Globe and Mail, so it was all worth it. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible.

That's retro festive, Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Nikainis, Recyclemyelectronics.ca, and Ridley Funeral, Home. Monday is the annual Christmas Crackers episode with Retro Ontario's own, Ed Conroy. See you all then. ...theirang... ...and... ...toe... ...of...

...you... ...it... ...and... ...the... You know,