Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - John Kastner: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1785

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

In this 1785th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with John Kastner about the Asexuals, the Doughboys, All Systems Go and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, Blue Sky Agency, Kindling and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

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Today, making his Toronto mic debut is John Castner. Sorry about that, dude. It's fucking super crazy busy around here right now. Well, listen, you're living the life of a rock star. man like give me a glimpse what kind of what's your day to day like over there in LA there's a lot of taking care of rock bands

and taking care of fucking children how many kids you got but you're kind of one and the same what's that how many kids do you got three I got one in university and one in fucking diapers bad playing man well I almost did the same thing man

I got a couple of kids in university and I got a nine year old and an 11-year-old? Yeah. I've got a 3-year-old, a 10-year-old, and an 18-year-old. Yeah, like, I can relate, man. I'm living the same life. But how long you've been living in L.A.? 28 years since 97. So did you move there when the Doe Boys broke up?

Yeah, I went to Toronto for a little bit, and then I moved to Los Angeles, like July 2nd, 1997. And you never looked back? No. I don't know about what I mean, I, you know, I look back every once in a while, but I mean, it's like, I haven't gone back and lived in the cold since then. Okay, well, on that note, are you able, like, do you have a little time to look back and answer all my annoying questions?

Yeah, man, whatever you want, I'm good now. I got, the kids are downstairs. I'm good to go. Okay, because a few hours ago, I just assumed. you stood me up because we had a 2 o'clock Eastern now at 7. Yeah, yeah, but I had to tell you, make sure you text me before. So, but, and then I was just checking my email. I was like, oh, fuck.

We're on now. I didn't mean to stand you up. Sorry about that. That's okay. I want to shout out a couple of people who, like, so I did an episode with a guy from Bootsauce, Sunny Greenwich. From Bootsaw, huh? and then because we're talking about like the Montreal rock scene

naturally I think about I think about Do Boys and then I guess I said I wanted to talk to John Casner sorry I moved around oh can you hear me now yeah there you are sorry I moved and shut the window last thing I heard you say was you're talking to the guy from Bootsauce about the Montreal rock scene yeah yeah but whenever I talk about the rock scene in the late 80s into the 90s I think about you guys in Doe Boys So I just said on the show I want to talk to John Castner And then I heard from Jim Moore

And Ken McNeil And here we are Yeah I mean you know Those guys are my buddies You know I mean Ken and Jim Those guys are the best

What did you think of boot sauce Uh You're nice guys Okay Not nice guys Okay good Yeah I've heard worse, so I think they'll take that.

Oh, you know, whatever. I mean, anybody that's making music and doing their thing, it's hard to, you know, it's hard to slant. You know, I'm too fucking old to be carrying around any of that shit anymore, you know? Okay, but if you have any shit, you need to unload, this is the place to do it. Okay, I'll keep that in mind. All right. John, are you a baseball fan by any chance?

I'm not. No, I've never been to a baseball game in my life. That's a mind blow. Like you didn't even, I don't know, sing the anthem at an expo's game or something. No, I went, the only time I was at the Big O, I saw Pink Floyd there, and I went and saw the human fly, who was like an evil-can-eval dude, and I was the little kid that went down and tied up his helmet before he crashed on the last school bus. You know, I know the human fly, because they parody, a human fly on the Simpsons. Oh, do they?

My wife was on the Simpsons pretty recently. Okay, shout out your wife and what, like, what, she just did a guest spot or what? Yeah, no, they gave her, like, she was a bit of a recurring character, where she was like, like, Monique, the French spy. I think that's what her name was. She's like a Simpsons character. That's amazing, and this is the woman I know as Megan Draper.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Shout out to Jessica. Okay. So we're going way back, okay? Way back here. Because I want to talk to you, John, about the asexuals. Like, I need to know, were you in diapers when you joined the asexuals?

Like, how old were you, and how did you get involved with the punk band, the asexuals? Well, we all went to, we started it in high school. I mean, we started the asexuals, like, in grade eight. It was our high school band. And then, you know, by the time, like, grade 11 came around, we had already started touring America. So I think, like, winter of grade 11, we missed a few weeks, because that was our first big American tour.

First time we came down to America, I was 16, and we did our first American tour. That's kind of amazing. Like, how did that happen so quickly for you? Well, you know, like, growing up playing music in Montreal, there was, like, only a few places you could play. And if you wanted to, like, play music, you just had to get out of town.

And there was this magazine called Maximum Rock and Roll that we read that, um, that had these scene reports and then so i just started booking tours from my parents phone um you know we'd come down to america with these recording papers um and yeah i just i booked all those first tours by myself on my parents phone i mean the last asexuals tour we did was like you know it was a summer we did 50 shows i booked them all through maximum rock and roll scene reports you know like you'd meet johnny stiff in new york and then he'd give you like four numbers and then you know read and raleigh would give you another five numbers and it was just

you know like it's just it was like a scene well that's punk man that sounds like punk to me yeah it was crazy i mean there you know that was a fun way to grow up you know um there's different time obviously but you know i mean i spent you know a lot of time in the back of a van a bus a plane a train whatever, I mean, 25 years, you know. Jeez. So Asexuals, why does that band come to an end? And then I need, like, in great detail, the Doe Boys' origin story. You know, if Asexuals was our high school band, we had toured America a bunch of times.

We made those first two records. And I was kind of the guy that was doing everything, and I never really drank. and I was kind of annoying I wanted to really work hard and those guys wanted to party and they wanted to be more the replacement so I wanted to be more of a punk band

and I think I'd kind of become unbearable and we went our different ways and they kind of continued on and then I started the doughboys with Brock who was like Brock was in our high school

there was two bands in our high school There was asexuals, it was the punk band, and there was a rogue. It was like the Alice Cooper, like, you know, metal. It was like Blue Oyster Culp and Alice Cooper and that kind of thing. And after I stopped playing the asexuals, I ran into Brock walking down the St. Catherine Street, and we started playing, which was weird, because, you know, people kind of, before that, Brock was kind of a bit more of like a jet-throat tall kind of. And then I introduced him to Husker Do, and then that was it.

Everything changed. And this is Brock Pytel. Yeah. Okay. So how do you meet the rest of the guys? Well, Scotty was like, Scotty, the guitar player for the Doe Boys, he played in the asexuals a little bit. He rehearsed a lot with us, but he never managed to make it to any of the shows. but when I was like a little kid

like 10 there was this guy Chris Roller that lived across the street and he had a band and Scott played guitar in his band and I used to sit under the ping pong table and unplug the lights I did their light show

I'd unplug it and plug it in and unplug the lights and Scotty who plays in Rusty he was like he's a you know he's a 62 or I'm a 66er and he's kind of like he was the guy I looked up to like Scott he's got some you know he's got very good taste he knows what's good and what's bad and he's kind of been someone who's kind of showed me a lot over my lifetime

you know Scott's a special dude but okay then that begs the question why does Scott and I did have Scott on this program he was in the basement here with you know Ken McNeil and I'm trying to remember now, but it sounded a bit like, I don't know, was he kicked out of the doughboys? Like, why did he leave the doughboys? You just stopped showing up. I mean, Scott was like, here's a perfect Scott story.

Like, when we were, like, the first doughboys tour, you know, a lot of us, we were like collecting welfare. Like, you know, we weren't making much money. I booked all the tours. Our record, we were on tour in America. Our record hadn't come out yet.

So it was just like, you know, go see the ex-singer of the asexuals new band. Luckily, like, about a week into the tour, we hooked up with M.I.A. and the Descendants, we played a few shows with them in Sumter, North Carolina was the first one. And then they took us on the rest of the tour. But on that tour anyway, you know, I remember, like, pulling up at a truck stop after a show, going into McDonald's, Scott meets some girl, slips out the back door,

and then disappears for 24 hours. Comes back, we're using all of our welfare check to get gas in the next city, and he's gone off with some chick that he's met at the truck stop. Well, we waited in the car, in the parking lot of McDonald's.

Well, that's rock and roll, man. Yeah, so, I mean, I think that, you know, Scott just, he was on a different plane. you know, I think he was a lot more talented than us. And he, did he get kicked out? He just stopped showing up, really. I mean, quite honestly, if we would have had the choice

to have kept Scott in the band from day one until the end, we obviously would have. But he just stopped showing up, you know? I mean, he was hanging out with our friend Pat Madden, which is his Luther victim friend, and they were too busy tying bedchets together climbing out of second-story windows to show up for rehearsal and we were like

okay well this isn't going to work out and then I guess so he just stopped showing up and he ends up going to Toronto I guess Scottie back I mean he Scott was always kind of he went to Queens so he kind of he always kind of lived in Kingston

he lived in Toronto then he'd be back to Montreal and he was he always was kind of Scott never lived anywhere very long but yeah he had a girlfriend Donna and a dog and they ended up in Toronto. Okay, it's basically Rusty's essentially one free fall

plus Scotty Mac. Yeah, yeah. And you know, with the doughboys, we did a bunch of shows with one free fall too. They were great. And you know, it's not like, Scott didn't like stop playing with the doughboys and then start Rusty.

I mean, there's 15 years between them leaving the doughboys and him starting rusty. or at least 10 anyway I don't know there's a lot of years between that you know it's funny it feels like it happens right away

okay I have to go check out the timelines on this sucker yeah there's a lot of time there okay I think Scott stopped playing with the asexuals around 80 but in the doughboys you know he was in the band for a year

and that year that he was in the band we just toured the entire time right and then and then I that was like 97 and I think he started Rusty in like 95, 97, 2000, I don't know something in there. There's a good 8 or 10 years for sure

before, from the Do Boys to Rusty. Who replaced Scotty Mac in Do Bois? Donathan Cummins. Yeah, there you go. And did you select him? Like, how did he get recruited? We were in Toronto and I saw his band Mike Marley and the Sailors. and he was just fucking awesome and so

Scottie had disappeared and we had some shows coming up with Husker do there was the last Husker do tour and we needed a guitar player so I called up this dude in Toronto Jonathan I got his number from I forget who

and he literally took the bus to Montreal three four days later with a skateboard and a pillowcase full of dirty clothes. No guitar or nothing. And who's on... No, sorry, continue. And then I think we rehearsed for three days

and then did that first two Scrodoo show at the Spectrum. And who's on bass for your band at this point? John, Bondhead. So this is your lineup that puts out your first album, right? No, the first album was Scott. Oh, sorry, yeah, right. And then Jonathan joins the band Basically

The third tour for the first record You know, that first record We toured for like a year straight So Scott probably did the first six months And then Jonathan did the second six months And then I think it was literally in 88 That we made home again So

So I'm going to ask you just about Like distribution and like getting like what label so what label releases whatever well so we were um uh with the there's a company called bone apart that was basically the guys that owned cargo um it's a whole long story bill from bone apart he was the guy that uh like was doing put it at the last the asexual's records and then he um gave us money to do the first doughboys record and by the time we did the record and they went on tour

and we came back from that summer tour and Bonaparte had gone out of business and cargo had started and we were like what the fuck so eventually I did a deal with this guy in Los Angeles and forget the name of his label and then what goes on in France

and then I did a whole bunch of deals all around the world one in England one in France one in America and all these deals different companies put out the record, and then we just, you know, we're on tour the whole time. I mean, we literally toured 10 months a year, you know. You got an entrepreneurial spirit there, John. Yeah, there's something going on.

Well, I mean, you know, you have the hustle, you know, you put in the work, and you make, you make shit happen. Yeah. Yeah, they definitely make shit happen. I mean, you know, I own Cobra side here, the big wild distribution. company I have for 25 years and I manage fucking tons of bands I mean at one point

I was managing all of my favorite bands well do you want to name check some of these bands what the bands that I've worked with in the last 10 years yeah I mean you know everybody from the women heads the swerve driver

the replacements um Cebedo um I don't know God, I was slow at one point for that little thing.

You know, I mean, I've managed probably 15 bands in the last 10, 12 years. Men with their hats. Other replacements. I can't think of it.

There's a lot more. I can't think of anymore, but there's a lot more. Well, those are some big fucking bands, but you mentioned men without hats. Oh, Danny Warholz. I did the Dandy Warholz. for five years.

Geez. I don't know. At one point I kind of managed all my favorite bands until I wanted to fucking jump out a second story window and I had to let a bunch of them out of my wife. But what's it like when you're managing

a band that you loved? And I'm on that, in that vein, I'm interested in men without hats because I can imagine a guy your age from Montreal, you'd be right there when men without hats is breaking? Manitza Hats is different because Ivan was like, you know, one of my best friends for 40 years. I mean, Van Hattah Hats had massive huge hits and huge success,

but they never tour. They never did anything, right? They did two American tours and one Canadian tour. And, you know, I basically helped, you know, this was about 10 years ago, I helped Ivan get it together. And I started managing them and then I sent them everywhere. or they went, you know, Europe. They did tons of American tours. Went to South Africa. I went to Australia. You went everywhere.

You know? I basically helped them put it back together and then sent them out on real tours. Not that their 80s tours weren't real tours. I mean, those were big tours. They were a big successful pop band. But they never toured Europe. They did two American tours.

That was it. You know? And you actually did more. He did more tours in the five or eight years that I managed him than he did in the first 40 years of his life. That's interesting because you also, you know, you mentioned your friendship with Ivan, but you also played guitar with men without hats for a couple of years, right? Just one year. Early 90s?

I mean, I played and sang on one of the records that Universal record he did in 1990. I don't know what it was fucking called, but, you know, it was. was, the doughboys, we were super busy, and we had a few weeks off. So I went down to Upper State, New York, and we recorded a record there. And then I literally split from, I remember I left there, went to Montreal, got on a plane, and flew to Finland, and picked up the tour again. And, you know, I played a few shows, like at Fufoon, we did, like, Nathan Phillips Square in Toronto. But I was too busy on tour. I sang and played guitar, and I played guitar on the record, and then I was just on tour.

All right, back to whatever. I know when people hear me say that, they're like, whatever, but that's literally the name of this album. So, like, what was the reception like? It was great. I mean, that record really did a lot. A lot of people really like that record, you know? That record was like a very heartfelt record, you know.

I was kind of heartbroken that I wasn't playing with my old buddies that I grew up with from high school and I just kind of closed my eyes and wrote a bunch of songs with Brock my high school nemesis and Scotty my guitar fucking hero and it was a real band of misfits

but I think that was a really special record and it got people loved it You know, like we went to Europe and all the mega city four and senseless things, and there's a whole gang of people that love that record over there. And then in America, it was, you know, a big Joe car and the descendants and MIA. And it was like we were part of all these scenes all over the world from that record. You know?

Like we spot, we, to Do Boys, we didn't spend a lot of time in Canada. I mean, we'd spend three weeks touring Canada and then, you know, six months touring America in five months touring Europe and then we go back and tour Canada for two weeks and then we never not only were not home but we never we didn't tour Canada very much

but one of those Canadian tours you were opening for the red hot chili peppers right? No we never opened for red hot chili peppers okay well you're the authority because there's that myth is out there yeah well so this absolutely did not happen no

Okay. Note for Rosie Gray T.O. We have some editing to do because that's definitely out there that you guys open for red hot chili peppers. No, I don't remember that. I mean, you know, I have to say, though, like, there's some dude from like Spain or something that started a new Do Boy's website or page or something. And I keep seeing all of these posters of shows. And I literally, I emailed Paul Newman two nights to go. because I saw this poster of, like, it was us playing two shows at the Fufoon in Montreal. One was seven seconds opening up and the other one with the lunatic's opening up. And I'm like, I don't remember that ever happening. You know, I had to email Paul.

I was like, did this really happen? I don't remember these happening. But this kid that's got this new thing, he's digging up all these old flyers. And like, I feel like, you know, I got a pretty good memory. And I see all these posters from all these shows all over the world. and I'm like, I don't remember any of that shit.

I just saw one the other day with the Gougu dolls and somebody else opening for us. I mean, yeah, we played a lot with the Gougu dolls, but the show in particular, I'm like, I don't remember this show happening. What the fuck? When did that happen? I guess I was there. And you weren't even drinking heavily? No, I smoked a lot of weed.

But I've never been, I can never, I'm not a good drinker, you know, like I just, I can never do it very well. Well, I know you're in L.A., but I should tell the listenership here in the GTA that if you want one-hour discreet cannabis delivery and you want to track your order,

go to shopkindling.ca. Oh, wow, is this like some kind of sponsor? Yeah. Dropping a little bit of sponsorship shit in here? Just slipping that in there, man. Slipping that in there. Order at 24-7 and then between I think 9 a.m. and 11 p.m., it'll be at your door in under an hour.

Yeah, you hear that weed guys? Now give fucking Toronto Mike some money, god damn it. You hear that? Come on. Shout out to cannabis. So, okay, so I am curious, because you talk about writing with Brock and Brock sounds like he's a big deal in your life

for that first album, but he up and moves to India, right? I don't know if Brock ever moved to India, But Brock started to, Brock had a, like we went to high school together, Brock had a pretty tough go while we're in high school. I don't think it's, you know, my place to really talk about his personal shit, but his parents weren't around. He lived in a house, it didn't have power. He had to put up a facade or else he'd end up in a home. Like, Brock had a rough go.

And the first year, the year of the Joe Boys was great. and Brock, you know, Andrews brought to a whole different genre of, like, he went from Jethro Tau to Bob Mould, you know? I mean, it was like, it was, and did a fucking phenomenal job at it. But then he started, things started to get weird. I mean, you know, when you're on tour with people like that,

it's like your brothers, and we started to fight a lot, and then Brock started doing these vows of silence. I don't know if it's all this shit, you've ever heard all these Doveway stories. Like, he stopped talking on tour, so he'd do these vow of silences where we'd go on to her for three months and Brock wouldn't talk. He'd carry

around a little pad and a piece of paper and he also was like a microbiotic or whatever so he would only eat food that was grown locally where we were so he carried around a crock pot so we were like this fucking punk band

and he'd show up and plug in the crock pot so the whole club smelled like fucking vegetables and you wouldn't talk he'd write shit down and a piece of paper and then he'd get up on stage and sing like a motherfucker and everybody would be like that guy's an

asshole like he pretended to me like he was like a deaf mute and he's like no he's just he's doing this vow of silence thing he was a three fucking months a whole goddamn American tour he didn't talk and

and then after that tour it was like this isn't going to work out too well he's he just he's going to some weird place. So he eventually left right after we made that Home Again record. We made that record with Bill and Stefan from the descendants

in the middle of a tour and then we got home and it was obvious that Brock just like he couldn't do it anymore. He had gone down some weird trip. So I think he went and maybe studied meditation into like a temple in India or something.

I don't think he actually got up and moved to India, but he maybe spent some time there studying meditation. But once again, I just think the road kind of tweaked his melon, and he went off. It just didn't work for him anymore. He couldn't do it, you know? And this is when Paul Newman enters the fray. Yeah.

Paul was a friend of Jonathan's, and he played in like the coolest Toronto band called No Mon. and he was just a fucking sick drummer. And Paul joined the band right as Home Again was coming out. Like by the time we started touring for that record, Brock was gone. Paul did the first show, the first tour for that record. And I was in 88. And then, you know, once Paul joined, it was like,

we never got off the road until, I don't know, man, 94, 95. like we just we come home for two weeks of Christmas that was it Jesus does that explain maybe why there's so much turnover in the doughboys I think we just burn people out yeah like we literally burn people out because we just toured non-stop like we literally would do we we would go off like you know like a normal tour was three months sometimes we'd come home for a few days before you know we'd go off to Europe but we were gone for six months

we'd be home for a week, gone for another three months, and we'd come home for two weeks. But, you know, we would usually wrap up around the 15th to the 20th of December somewhere, usually like in Europe or something. We'd come home until the second week of January,

and then we'd go again. And we'd, you know, I think the most we ever did is we did 31 shows and 31 nights and one American tour. Because, you know, we've met the descendants and those guys really taught us to like go they taught us a lot you know there's two kind of people that really taught me a lot which was mark stern from youth brigade and byo and i met him he really taught me how to like do it yourself and don't fucking sit around

to wait for anybody and then bill stevenson when i met him he took it to another level for me you know geez but yeah we have a bit of burnout because i i guess after happy accident uh Happy accidents comes out, you lose John Bondhead, at least after the tour. Yeah, I mean, you know, Bondhead was the most normal of the bunch, first of all, and he's the weirdest fucking dude, and he's the coolest dude, the most talented dude. But he also, he didn't drink, he didn't smoke, a guy. I don't think he's ever smoked a cigarette or a joint in his life. I don't think he's ever had a beer at his life.

And, you know, he was on tour with a bunch of fucking maniacs, you know? and he had some heavy personal stuff in his life he came from a pretty hard go himself and after like literally two or three years of just being on the road solidly he met this girl in like Tacoma Washington and they got married it was like we'd come home for two weeks

none of us even knew that he was talking to this girl and while we were on tour his dad passed away he didn't tell any of us and he had been talking to this girl nonstop we came home for 10 days he flew to Tacoma and came back married we're like what

what the fuck I heard from somebody you know a friend of his that oh yeah his dad passed away while you guys were on tour never told any of us who replaces Bondhead uh we did a so we got um for

a while first we did a bunch of, no, right away we got, what's his name from Pig Farm, John Belorriate from Pig Farm, and he joined the band, and he was a very unhealthy guy, he was very skinny, he was ending up in the hospital all the time, and like every few months that we'd have to miss a few shows because he was in the hospital, drank a lot, he was like eating disorder, and it was just very, very unhealthy,

and, you know, he joined the band, he was in the band for a year, and we toured for a year. The whole year he was in the band, I don't think we came home for more than a week. And he was just too unhealthy. And I think, if I'm not mistaken,

I think maybe we did that when up turns to down EP with him. I think he might be on that. I'm not sure. I think we did that EP with him. And we were, you know, we were assigned to Enigma, a restless in Los Angeles,

and we signed to them because they had all our favorite bands they had social distortion and like everybody got all the cool bands were on Enigma Restless so we signed to them when we signed to them I was 17 or whatever but you know they took our publishing they gave us no money and you know they licensed our record around the world and we hear about how well our record was selling we were starting to draw tons of people in Europe but like we weren't seeing anything from it so we started getting all these label guys come to our show

it was Dave Porter from A&M Records he came out and we said well we We'd love to be on A&M, but we're not going to sign a Canadian deal. So they hustled the guys in America, and we signed an American and a Canadian deal at the same time. But we are still signed to a restless enigma. So A&M gave us money under the table, and we went and bought our way out of the restless enigma deal. Wow. Yeah. So in the end, we ended up paying fucking Restless Enigma, I think, $15,000 to get out of that deal. Wow.

fucking ridiculous. You picked the ridiculous industry, man. I know it's your art and you got the hustle, but the stories I'm hearing, it sounds like this game is rigged. Well, you know, I'm not going to lecture you about this fucking state of the music business.

It's like, you know, a good deal in the music business is a bad deal. You know, a good record deal is a bad business deal any way you look at it, right? So it's like, Yeah, you know, the kind of the game, that whole, you know, it was a week, like, I'm from that whole, like a lot of the 90s rock guys, we're all kind of the same age. Funny enough, we're all turning 60 next year. Everybody is.

And, you know, we all saw that same fucking kiss tour, summer in 1977, everybody. And we all put our time in doing tons of years on the road. There was no chance that bands like us were ever. going to get popular and then all of a sudden we all signed big major label record deals and all sold a bunch of records and all started drawing tons more people and everything fucking changed you know well i want to talk about that change but how much of that change was a result of nirvana it was it was not only nirvana though sure of course i mean they were the ones that led the way but i mean we were with this way this company in europe called paperclip

Paperclip had 15 bands, and they had everybody, they had fucking, you know, Soul Asylum, Nirvana, Tad, Mud Honey, you know, the Lemonheads, Buffalo Tom, they had 15 bands, and we, the Do Boys were the only Canadian band on that roster. And the 15 bands that paperclip had were the 15 bands that changed the world in 91, 92. Wow. You know, and so, like, we knew all those bands because we would, go to Europe and tour with them all. We knew all of them because we toured with them all in Europe. We spent

so much time touring Europe that we knew everybody. And we all signed record deals at the same time and we all started selling a bunch of records all at the same time. And yeah, Nirvana is obviously the fucking Pink Floyd of our generation or whatever, you know, they're the dark side of the moon or whatever it is. But, you know,

I mean, I think there was a lot, there was a whole movement to music. I mean, we were part of a whole shift in movement to music that I don't think has ever happened again, you know, and it was a fucking cool time to be making music and be part of that, you know? Okay, look, we got ourselves here in 1993, okay? So yours truly is turning 19 years old.

The Blue Jays win the World Series, by the way, and they might repeat that against the Dodgers this year. We'll see. We're, game one is on Friday night. But 93 is when Crush comes out. So would you mind, Crush is sort of the big, the big, the big, breakthrough for you guys in terms of radio airplay and much music, right? Like, give me the back story on

Crush. Well, yeah, not that was in Canada. It went gold in Canada and did well, but it did well everywhere. It did well in America. It did really well in Europe. It did well everywhere. I mean, you know, I remember at that point, I had a girlfriend that was living in Japan and when we get off the road, I'd go

to grab her in Japan, we'd go to Thailand for Christmas every year. And you know, I remember finding like bootleg copies of Crush all over Thailand. I mean, I knew that we were doing well when fucking the Thai bootleggers on Kosamui were bootlegging our record.

Who produced Crush? Daniel Ray, Ramon's guy. I ended up being one of my all-time favorite people in the whole world. Just the coolest dude ever. We wanted Tommy Ramon to do it because he had done Tim by the replacements and

he had, and you know, he produced all the early Ramon's records. But he wasn't available, and thank God, because in the end, I don't, he wasn't a great producer. But through looking, trying to get him, we met Daniel Ray, who was another Ramon's producer, and ended up being the best Ramon's producer. I mean, other than Ed Stasian, obviously. But, you know, Daniel was wrote a lot of Ramon stuff, starting it too tough to die on. Daniel's a big part of the Ramones, you know? and we signed our A&M deal in Los Angeles and Canada

and then we went to New York and fucking they put us up with this crazy place I remember they had to put $25,000 down its deposit for the art at the place we were staying at. And we spent months, two months in New York recording at the Magic Shop and all these amazing fucking studios and working with Dan Deer Ray, you know. I remember we did all the pre-production

for that record at Big Mike's, which is a famous, famous rehearsal place in New York. And one side of us television was rehearsing. On the other side, Lenny Kravitz was rehearsing. I remember one time, me and Jonathan, like television was rehearsing. We stopped and we were fucking sitting by the door listening to television.

They'd been broken up. It was their big kind of reunion show back. And then Tom Berlaine opens the door. I mean, John, listening to the door, listening to the door, listening to him. Like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Anyway, yeah. That record was super fun. to make and it changed everything for us and you know all of a sudden we could draw you know

500 or a thousand kids on a Tuesday night you know yeah you know I should bring in a question that came in from Hamilton Mike I know Hamilton Mike is listening he's looking forward to this Hamilton Mike wrote me when he heard you were coming on he said I played the shit out of their last two CDs crush and turn me on and he wanted me to ask you what it was like working with Ramon's producer Daniel Ray, but it sounds like it was fucking great. Daniel's the best man. He did crush, which was, you know, he just changed everything. We worked with some

producers, but Daniel was like, he was a fucking everything that we loved in music in life he was part of. He lived in the Lower East Side and he brought us to New York and you know, he hung out with the Ramones and fucking recorded in all the best studios. Not just the best, the coolest studios, you know? And he just taught us a lot about making records and it was just an amazing experience.

And then, you know, he did half of Turn Me On and then he produced the first All Systems Go record, too. I saw, I saw you in All Systems Go at Moleson Park and Berry before a Pearl Jam show. Mm-hmm. 98. Playing or were we just walking around? No, you were playing. Like, I think on that stage, I want to, like,

I believe Cracker was on that stage for sure. Maybe. Hayden? Yeah, I remember. He was good. Whatever happened to that dude? He was like a talented fucking guy. Kind of like Canadian, like Elliot Smith or something. Guy was like a good looking, super happening guy.

Like, what happened to that guy? He's become a good buddy. He's a soccer dad or kids play on the same team. And he's still doing his thing. He does a benefit, his daughter's special needs, and they do this really cool benefit at Massey Hall every year. and Hayden's still doing his thing. He gave me this hat.

He was a talented dude, that guy. Does he still play music? Does he still do it? Absolutely. You can still catch him. He was at Lee's Palace fairly recently. Yeah, Hayden's amazing. Things are as bad as they seem.

He gave me this a couple years back when he... Yeah. He was like, you know, I hate to say it, but there wasn't... We didn't love a lot of stuff that came from Canada at the time that we were doing it. um we didn't love a lot of it i mean sloan were obviously fucking awesome and uh and hayden though he was that guy was like way a step above everything else in canada you know i agree man but what did

you think of a band like and i i don't even know how often you'd cross their paths but uh lowest of the low yeah not my thing not your cup of tea no it's too toronto queen street art scene for me and You know, the 80s Toronto Queen Street art thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, I love Groovey Religion, and William's one of my best friends. But I just didn't like that Toronto art scene. I mean, there was that one band of John Bora played in. They were cool, but I don't know. It just wasn't my thing.

It was too arty. It's funny you mention John Bora. He's been over, but I was just, like, literally, I think it was just yesterday. I think Bora's got new music coming out, and I was reading about it. Yeah, yeah. I helped him put out his music. I own Cobra side, so I put out John Thacker. You know what?

Thank you for reminding me about that. But I bump in him. I just think he's amazing, yeah. Yeah, he's great. I do a Zoom every Saturday with all of my old Canadian buddies. We've been doing it for years now ever since COVID. So it's 10 a.m. for me. It's like one for those fuckers.

But every Saturday we do a Zoom, and John Borough is part of our Zoom gang. I need that list, John. I need to know who's on that five. You know, like Ken from Rusty's on there and Scotty, although they don't show up much, but William New and, I don't know, Roy Pike, the filmmaker. Chatted with him this morning. Yeah. You know, it's just a tall monk, my old friend that I grew up with, it's all my old Canadian buddies that we do a Zoom every Saturday. Okay, so you know you're talking to Toronto, Mike, so it's always of a Toronto perspective.

And one of the things I just want to... Your name actually Mike or is it like Toronto because you're talking to a microphone? No, it's Mike, M-I-K-E. So this is, yeah, Toronto Mike. So much music. I know you know, let's disregard what's going on with L.A. in New York and in Tokyo and, you know, you know, from a Canadian perspective, how important is it that much music played the shit out of shine? I'm not alone

I'm not alone I feel like I'm brave and up school underneath this I'm not in flesh at all I'm not alone I'm not alone I'm like a one in a million faces And to think I thought John Kastner was ghosting me. I'm glad we got to do this.

What a great chat. I am also glad I have the opportunity to tell everybody listening that Great Lakes Brewery is brewed right here in Ontario, fresh craft beer. That's what FOTMs drink. That's what we'll be drinking at TMLX21 on November 29th at noon at Palma's Kitchen. Palma pasta will feed us there.

I hope to see Nick Iieny's there. He's got a couple of great podcasts you should listen to. Building Toronto Skyline and Building Success. Recyclemyelectronics.c.c.a.c.c.m.coma.c.c. is where you go. If you have old electronics, old cables, old devices, you don't throw them in the garbage. Those chemicals will end up in our landfill. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Drop them off to be properly recycled.

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It's trackable. It's at your door in under an hour. Cannabis, my friends. Kastner knows cannabis. Back to John. You know, I appreciated it. We were never here. I literally wasn't around to see it.

because we were never here. So, you know, I didn't even know that Shine was the song for the wedge, you know that? I was going to ask you about that too. Yeah, it's a theme song. I didn't even know that as a theme song. I didn't know that until years later. Well, I guess if you're not here,

how the hell would you, you know, somebody would have to tell you, I guess. We just weren't here. Like, we literally weren't here. We spent most of our time in Europe or America or just somewhere touring. We never were at home. So, I mean, I literally,

from 97 to you know I mean God I still continued in all systems go but not as much but 97 to like 95 we were home

maybe five weeks a year you know and three of those weeks we were on tour in Canada so do you have any even are you even aware

that you won a Casby Award from CFOI? Yeah I went to that I went when we won that Casby Award I went and picked it up and I remember I made

some joke that I felt embarrassed about and then I never wanted to go back ever again Jesus, that was in 94 yeah that was for Shine but would you mind like just because Shine was the big breakthrough single and it was all over

the place on CF and Y and on much music like can you share a little bit about how you know the writing process for Shine it's uh I mean I just played it this morning it was like a super easy so we had been touring Europe a lot and we had

some bands that were they all loved whatever and there's a whole scene of bands it was the megacity four ned's atomic dustbin the senseless things midway still there's a whole scene of bands that we toured with all the time um and whiz the same from megacity four had become really good friends me and him and so the right before we were going to know it was before because those were the demos that we used Whiz came over and stayed with me at Christmas for two weeks

and while he was there at Christmas we wrote a bunch of songs we wrote Shine, we wrote Fix Me and the songs like me and Wiz we really were close and it was really easy to write songs together and we just wrote a whole bunch of songs

and like you know we wrote Shine in fucking 45 minutes you know like it was It was just really easy and fun. Shine and Fix Me, collaborating with Wiz was wise because Shine and Fix Me were a couple of key bangers on Crush.

There was other ones that we wrote together too. We wrote a bunch of songs together. I mean, from that same time, and then we wrote some songs for the Mega City 4 record, and then I think we had a few songs on the next Do Boy's record even, Turn me on. I think there is a few songs that Mia Wiz wrote.

We wrote a bunch of songs together because, you know, then eventually Mega City 4 broke up and Wiz moved to Canada and joined the doughboys, you know? Right, right, right. I'm really sorry for your loss. I had a blood clot on my brain and I'm obviously still here to tell you about it, but it's terrible what happened to Wiz. Yeah, it was really shocking. I don't even know what to say about that

Like You know Like we had stopped playing He moved back He was like working in a factory And it just I don't think he He didn't know he was sick

He just like It's sudden Right Yeah He just fell over and died You know And I mean It's great that

You've made it through that I mean it's So I don't know How stuff just scares me You know It makes me sad And upset

that, and it just scares me. So I'm happy that you're able to make it through that. Well, I'm sorry that your friend, because you don't know it's there. I mean, I had a headache for four days, and then they did a cat scan, and they said, oh, you know, go to the stroke ward. You're in, like, this is really bad.

And then they give you blood thinners, basically. But sometimes you don't get that warning. Yeah. And that's, and, yeah, I'm sorry to hear it. He was only, like, in his mid-40s, so that's just fucking awesome. But he's that old, I don't think. Whiz was older than us.

Whiz was four or five years older than me. So I didn't even know he was in his 40s. Maybe I don't know how old he was when he died. I have to say to Wiz, he was like, he smoked a lot of cigarettes, drank a lot of tea, and got a lot of headaches. So, yeah. Well, I'm sorry, man. So, by way, fix me too.

Another banger. But neighborhood villain, just shout out to my buddy, Stu Stone. He was in a movie called The Boys, something The Boys? God, I can't remember. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that was that, I think we even did a video with that guy that directed that movie. And it's got a neighborhood villain

in it. Yeah, yeah. I think that that song kind of had more like I think he kind of used the premise of that song to kind of write that movie or something. I think it was a little more involved than just another song that he bought for the movie. I remember at the time he had kind of made it

like he needed to have that song in the movie. Oh, it's called the Boys Club. Yeah, I remember. I remember when he used it. I met up with them and, yeah. Okay. You know? Well, listen, I need to know why it comes to an end for

doughboys, because it seems it seems like with crush and turn me on that things are coming together for dough boys. You know, like, after Jonathan left, it just, like, I think turned me on to great

record, and it was a hard record to me, We spent a lot of money making that record. There's a whole other record that, you know, we spent $15,000 a song recording that still never come out. There's 50 songs of the Joe Boys that never come out. That I've been trying to put together this whole crush box set to put out on vinyl and add a lot of those songs to it. But that's a whole other fucking thing.

I did this deal with Universal, we worked everything out, and then the guy ghosted me. You know, we worked out the deal. It was all set, ready to go. So now I'm trying to go through somebody else to make it happen again. But, you know, I want to put all those songs, or a lot of those songs that have never come out on it. I want to get a lot of the Andrew McNaughton photo shoots.

And there's some, like, we did some, like, $25,000 photo shoots that we never used one single photo from it. You know, we did a, whenever we did a super expensive photo shoot with Chris Buck in New York City, never used one photo. You know? There's so much stuff there. So, and, you know, I own Cobra Side. I have the, I have the resources to put together a big, beautiful box set.

I work with Howie Weinberg all the time, you know. So, again, Howie, he's totally into fucking remastering it. And then he'll remaster all this stuff that's never come out. So it'll come out eventually. I just, you know, I need to work with a new universal dude now because the other guy, Warren, I think is nameless. Like, sent me the deal memo. We had it worked out and then just ghosted me.

That's fucked up. That's, yeah. Yeah. Well, hopefully we get that figured out because... Yeah, yeah. We will. I mean, I wanted it to come out on the 30th anniversary. That was the plan, which was two years ago or whatever, a year and a half.

And I had it all worked out, ready to go, and then he just stopped taking my calls. Jeez. so man and all these you talk about these 25,000 photo shoots and you didn't use the photos like the band's paying for this shit right yeah but you know we were fucking kids there's so much money in the music business at that point you know we're our publishing deals were hundreds of thousands of dollars like it was money everybody had money you know we were making money

we were spending money it was like that last that turned me on record we spent 500,000 dollars making that last record you know like there was money man it was like you know there was a new format CD and everything had to be repressed in this new format it was super cheap to make and everybody was rebuying every record so there was a shit ton of money in the music business

you know no I know man I bought my fair share of CDs I can't tell you how many like 1899 CDs I bought because I like one or two singles yeah or all those records that you loved when you're a kid that are now on this new format. I mean, imagine a dude like me that's fucking spent 10 months

a year in a van or a tour bus. First, I used to carry around 12 cassettes with me. And then all of a sudden I can fucking fit like a pouch with like 40 CDs. It was like it was the greatest. You know? Yeah. Did you play with

Brand Van 3,000? Yeah. I played on the first record. I played on the last record. I played a bunch of shows with him. James was like, he was this like artie director dude that wanted to make a record. I said I'd play in his record. I remember he was recording on St.

LaRourstreet and he'd asked me and Melissa Octor Mar to do it. And so I met up with Melissa and we walked up St. LaRosstreet to the studio and raised we were walking in. She says, yeah, I'm not doing this. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, I'm not doing it. I'm like, okay.

And so I just plugged my guitar and played on a bunch of songs. She said, I'm not doing this. And then I grabbed my guitar and we split. And then I never thought it would ever amount to anything. He was like this kind of, like, director that everybody, like, respected, but he never made anything. He just had a lot of respect.

He was a cool dude. And then that record came out was a big record. When that Brandvan record came out, I remember I had a sticker on the front with a quote from me and a quote from Brent Bramberry from CBC. There was a little sticker on the front. He had a quote from me and him on the record on the cover. Yeah, because he was hosting Brave New Waves.

Yeah. And it's funny, you don't drink, but you're in, you're not drinking in L.A., but you're, you know, smoking in L.A., I suppose. Mm, yeah. Hey, did, any thoughts on Canadian legend Biff Naked? No, not really. I don't, I mean, I don't know her. I've never met her.

I mean, she was, I guess, around kind of maybe later, not, you know, I don't know her. I've never met her. No, just curious because she has a documentary that I'm going to see the Toronto premiere of in a couple of weeks. I was just curious, have you guys crossed paths? No, never. I remember in the 80s and stuff, she was, you know, there was a lot of, I don't know, she was pregnant and partying her. There was a whole shit. She was like a Canadian

Courtney love chick that scared me and I was one to, it sounds like a lot of drama to me. I didn't want anything to do with it. She's a nice enough person. I'm sure she's got it together now, but I've never met her. She's lovely. She's a good gal for sure, for sure, for sure. Okay, I need to wrap up, though. So all systems go, we could

probably do another, you know, 90 minutes in all systems go. But for the doughboys, any chance of a reunion of some sort? I know there was one 2011 yeah you know never see ever who knows if like if the right situation comes around and the money makes sense who knows you know um you know those last shows that we did i had a great time i think paul had a great time um you know jonathan who knows i mean you know we were a good band at some points you know i thought when we did those food fighter shows we did pretty good um and it

was super fun you know you think about like shit man it's been a long time can i do this and then you kind of start doing it and you're like oh fuck i can do this yeah this is like easy like i remember this so we know you're managing bands now but like are you still singing uh you know i do the odd thing here and there um still collecting a lot of guitars how many do you have do you think a lot um and i don't know you know you know I'd like to make one more record, but we'll see. I got a few kids to get through life, and I got a lot of bands to need to pay the rent.

But I'd like to eventually find some time to maybe make another record. If you made another record, would that be an All Systems Go, Adobe Boys? No. No, I don't know what it would be. Quite frankly, my favorite record I've ever made was a nice solo record. The last record I made, that was my favorite record I've ever made. why it's the best record I've ever made you know is that because you could be

autonomous I just think I love the way it sounds and I like the songs I like the variation in songs you know I got everybody from leaving from fear to whoever to sing and play on it you know

you know that and you know that I played guitar on some Mark Atlantic in songs, too, when I was making that record. On the bubblegum record, I play on three songs, and I sing on one of them, too. That was one of my favorite things I've ever done. And that solo album, you're referencing, that's, have you seen Lucky? Yeah.

From 2006. Yeah. Okay, I feel like we kind of covered the work you're doing of these bands you love, and it sounds pretty rad, but you also work on some television and film sets. down tracks? You compose? I haven't in a while, but yeah, for years I wrote a lot of scores for TV shows and movies

and, you know, I did that movie suck with Rob in Toronto and I think, I hope one day me and Rob will make another movie together. I like doing that, but I did it for years and I was

good at it. But it got very competitive and I got tired like doing the scores for the indie movies was fun because although you know they didn't pay great that just was creatively super fun but you know to get through the paying the rent I'd have to write a lot of stuff for MTV and all these shit that I did like and that that I just got tired of like I can't afford this fucking Coldplay song can you rip it off for $3,000 and I mean yeah I can do that in 25 minutes, but it's not super

creatively satisfying, but I did that until I couldn't take it anymore. But do you think even those gigs are going to go to AI? I don't know. This whole AI thing, I mean, yeah, it's going to fuck us up somehow, but you know, I don't think it can, you can't create passion and heart.

You know, you can make it look shiny and nice and I'm sure you can make it sound okay I don't know it just it seems like it's hard to create passion in a computer no it's soulless man like the fact that it is taking jobs at all I have people on there doing voiceover work and this and they're losing gigs to AI I fucking hate it I fucking that's just the world we live in right

I mean I live in Los Angeles and I got these little robots running around driveling packages There's fucking taxis everywhere with no driver in it. It just seems like every other week they're taking jobs from somebody, you know? And you're hanging in there? I know you're, I don't even know this. I should ask you, you're a proud Canadian? Very proud Canadian.

So, like, how is it down there right now when you got a, the president down there wants to annex this country and make us the 50 first state? I've lived here half my life. Right. You know, this country's let me down. but the city of Los Angeles I love more than ever it's just the fucking amazing city

I mean I'm a Los Angeles I've been here 28 years man I love this city like I can't tell you what a great city this is you know and we've been talking about maybe moving we were talk last year we were thinking of maybe moving to Toronto

we're trying it for a year but I don't know man the colds you know it's cold in the winter and it's muggy in the summer and it's muggy in the summer and I'm a fucking wimp but I'm not going to lie

this Trump shit is tough to handle I mean I live in Glendale and it's like this ice stuff is real for me like they busted all the guys at my car wash all the people at my Home Depot you know they drive through the neighborhoods

just grabbing gardeners off the front lawn because they look Mexican it's sickening it's fucking gross So it's just fucking terrible. But, you know, Los Angeles, Los Angeles is fighting it. And, you know, the city's, the city's strong, man. I mean, you know, we had those fires last year.

I mean, those fires, it came two miles from me, you know. Like, we had all our bags packed. We were next to evacuate. It was tough. You know, it was scary. And the city pulled together and got through it, you know. So. Well, if you ever do dissonable,

to move back home we'd welcome you back with open arms and I'd take you out for a delicious Italian meal at Palma's kitchen here in Mississauga so we'll take care of you Mississauga

I like a nose bleed if I go out there well I'm in a Tobacco so I can kind of you know see Mississauga from my house but yeah that's where Jonathan was from at Tobico that's as much as I know about at Tobacco. I'm south of Tobico. I like to differentiate, you know, by the lake. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know much about it, but, you know, Toronto's, you know, I don't go back to Canada

very much, although I was there last week for Tom Green's wedding. Oh. Yeah, what was that like? I saw a photo of you at Tom Green's wedding. It was great. Tom's a good friend and he's met a beautiful woman, Amanda, and it was a beautiful wedding, you know, it was really nice. And my wife's in Canada right now shooting a new Netflix show what part of Canada she's in

BC doing a Netflix show and and most of my none of my family and friends had met

my widowest kid Augie so I was weird is that all my family and friends hadn't met

my kid so that was a trip yeah anyway it was nice to be back it was cold though

I had to take like three or four showers a day I couldn't get warm you're fucking pussy. How'd you meet Tom Green? You know, living in Los Angeles, like Canadians kind of gravitate together.

And I met Tom just because we're Canadian. And we just got closer and closer. And then we started to become really close. And then at COVID, we really started to bond. And then, you know, halfway through COVID, he's like, I'm out of here, dude. I was like, what? He's like, I'm leaving. I'm going back.

And that was it. He moved back. He met Amanda. He was in a beautiful farm. And he's a very good friend of mine. I put out Tom's records. You know, he's putting out records and doing comedy tours. He's a talented guy.

Guy's got a lot of heart, a lot of soul. And he's just a, you know, he's a good dude, that guy. Well, I used to watch the Tom Green Show on Cable 10. Yeah, me too. I mean, it was my favorite Canadian, you know, kids in the hall on the Tom. Green Show are some of the best things that have ever come out of Canada. When I was in Canada last week, Dave Foley actually took care of my house and my dog while I was there.

That's wild. Okay, I love the kids in the hall too, so a lot of touch points here. Okay, I could talk to you all night, man. I'm so glad you made some time for me. I really, I'm glad we got to do this, and I really appreciate it, John. Yeah, I'm sorry. Like, I really didn't mean to stand you up or anything. It's just, like I could say, my wife is away right now.

on solo dad and between trying to take care of the bands and these kids my life is fucking tough right now. So let me leave you with this. You owe me nothing, okay? But I'm going to pretend you owe me something, okay? Okay.

What if you put it in a word with Tom Green to come on Toronto Mike? Tom would come and do your show. No problem. Okay, so can I leave that with you, John? This is like a homework for you, I suppose. Tom will do it, no problem.

Tom is about. And I'll text Tom now and tell him I did this podcast in Canada. He'll do it. Tom's the greatest. He's got a big Canadian tour coming up. Yeah. There's no better time for him to do your podcast than now to support his tour coming up. So I'll help make that happen.

Thanks, Biden. Okay, I'm glad we did this and enjoy the rest of your night. Yeah, you too, man. And, you know, anytime you want to talk, you've got me nearby now. So anytime, just text me. All right, John. Thanks so much. All right.

Take care. Bye. Bye. And that brings us to the end of our 1,785th show. Go to Torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's patrons like you. Go to patreon.com slash Toronto Mike.

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See you all tomorrow. When my special guest is FOTM Alan Zweig, he's in the basement, it's a 2 p.m. start. You can watch it happen. at live.tronomike.com. Alan Swig, Toronto Mike, tomorrow, be there.

We're going to be able to be. You know,