Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - John Pollock and Wai Ting from POST Wrestling: Toronto Mike'd #680

Episode Date: July 7, 2020

Mike takes a backseat while Milon Talsania from Fast Time Watch and Jewellery Repair hosts a discussion with John Pollock and Wai Ting from POST Wrestling.

Welcome to episode 680, all hits 680 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Garbage Day.

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Text Toronto, Mike to five, nine, five, five, nine. And we welcome back our friends from pumpkins after dark. I'm Mike from Toronto,

Mike.com. And joining me this week are John Pollock and Wei Ting from Post Wrestling. Hello, Mike. We're back. The Post Wrestling crew is here. The four of us have reassembled. You have brought your pro wrestling backup for this particular interview. You're all locked and ready to go.

Well, you said it. Welcome back. I think I've been promoted from backup, though. Well, hold on. Hold on. Slow your roll, Milan. I was going to give you a big intro. No one's supposed to hear you.

Don't you know how this theatric stuff works? So, John and Wei, you were last on the program. And I say that like you've been on several times, but it's your only appearance to date. So, this is number two. But your last visit was number 472. So if anyone is listening and they're like, I want to hear the deep dive, John and Wei on Raw or whatever,

find episode 472. And I checked the date, guys. That was May 31st, 2019. But it might as well have been 100 years ago. It was a whole different universe how are you guys holding up we're we're we're doing okay um you know obviously things in the world could be better but in our little world a little bubble of wrestling things have been like oddly busy and consistent with us wrestling has never stopped and as a result i feel like in some ways

we're kind of busier than ever. Well, that's good to hear. I'm busier than ever myself, but I'm talking to certain people on the program who have nothing to do and I'm just envious. That sounds wonderful to me. You guys are connecting via Zoom,

but I do have a special guest in the backyard before we get into it. Hold on. I don't want to mess this up. I even have um this is uh i have hold on i don't want to mess this up i even have a theme song for this gentleman so i don't want to screw this up but here we go actually where the hell is your theme song hold on here i do not want to mess this up here we go Welcome to the stage, ladies and gentlemen, live from my backyard studio, the TMDS backyard studio, the fourth visitor. For those that are only listening to the podcast, Milan is on the picnic table dancing right now with a red cup.

And it is quite the visual here on Zoom. table dancing right now with a red cup and it is quite the visual here on zoom and you know we're going live on periscope so you just sent everybody to periscope to see to see milan's moves but uh milan talsania when you guys john and way when you guys were last on the program i also had milan in studio for that and the reason i had milan milan was a sponsor at the time for some reason he's not a sponsor now but i don't i don't ask these tough questions but um wow there was a lot of blowback Milan do you remember the controversy because you were co-hosting that episode it was my official heel turn uh after the episode I think remember when that was the biggest problem in the world a controversy coming out of a a podcast in a basement mean, to only wish for such problems.

I'm not, what was the controversy? I'm not really familiar. All right, I'll try to surmise this. Essentially, that a paying sponsor, so somebody who was actually giving me money every month, was my co-host, and therefore it was somehow, like, inauthentic or something? What was your vibe on that, Milan? You know, everyone's entitled to their opinion,

but I think a lot of those people didn't listen to the episode. Right, okay, thank you. Now, you're back, and you're not a paying sponsor. You're back. Why did I invite you back for this episode? It's a great question.

I think you love the sound of my voice, I think, Mike. That's true. Dan Schulman, eat your heart out, right? I got to say, and this is a shout out, some props for John and Wei, is that I absolutely adore, like I love what you guys are doing.

Like you're rolling your own and I watch it with great pride and admiration. I love what you guys are doing. At the same time, my interest in the subject matter is near zero. I want to just talk about 1980s WWF wrestling. And when I wanted to have you guys back for a real talk, I had to reach out to Milan because he's the subject matter expert.

He's going to ask the tough questions today. So thank you, Milan. Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on. It's absolutely understandable and and anybody who would complain about something like that clearly um i you know the i know how difficult it is to try to talk about something that you know you might not be all that up to date on so absolutely i think he's integral to this i appreciate it way the two scarborough

guys sticking together here and i don't want to. And I don't want to fake it. I mean, trust me, a wrestling fan can smell a phony a mile away. Am I right? It's like, no way. That guy's faking it. Okay, so Milan, before we hit John and Way up with the tough questions here and the deep, deep discussions, is there anything you'd like to share about the wonderful family-run operation, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair? You guys are awesome. Give us an update. Is there anything you'd like to share about the wonderful family run operation,

Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair? You guys are awesome. Give us an update. Firstly, I'm glad you're still around. The COVID-19 couldn't have been easy, but tell us how that was and where you're at and anything else you'd like to share about Fast Time. I appreciate that. What a segue. Yeah, definitely.

Fast Time has definitely reopened back again. We were closed for a couple of months because our locations of the mall had to close as a non-essential business, but we're back. All of our locations are open. And as an exclusive for the first time ever, I'd like to point out that we'll be offering

50% off any regular price watch battery installation. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 5-0 or 1-5? 5-0. What? Damn. 5-0, yeah. Does Wade get that discount?

Does John get that discount? Absolutely, absolutely. They got the friends and family discount for sure. Damn, are you sure you want to do this? I mean. Do you think he might be feverish? Do you have COVID? You're okay?

It's valid at the Richmond Hill location only. It's offered for a limited time only expires july 31st and we do repairs on all watches and jewelry great selection of watch bands and a great selection of nationally branded watches and we just asked to visit fast time watch repair.com for more information just because the world feels like time has stopped it has not wow 50. 50% off. How can you top that? There you go. A reopening special for Toronto Mic listeners only.

Wait, you said 5-0, 50%. Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever done that before? Never, never. Is that right? So again, I need to just make this clear for listeners. 50% off the regular priced watch battery installation at the Richmond Hill location. Correct.

Do you want to give the address? I know people should go to FastTimeWatchRepair.com and find out where it is. But what's the address? It's 120 Newkirk Road. We're at unit number six in Richmond Hill. Major intersection is Bayview and Major McKenzie. And are you at that location? Like you're physically there most days?

I am these days. Yeah, absolutely. So an FOTM can come in, meet the man of the golden voice. Yeah, and many have. Okay, so good. Okay, so if you do have that watch sitting around that needs the battery,

now's the time. Go to Richmond Hill, get 50% off and say hi to Milan and be a good FOTM. That's amazing. Yeah, I appreciate that, Mike. Thank you. Now tell me that theme song I played.

Tell me the relevance. I don't know. Oh, I just like, Mike. Thank you. Now tell me that theme song I played. Tell me the relevance. I don't know. Oh, I just like the theme song. It's from the tag team champions of Street Profits. Hopefully COVID-free, although they haven't been on the show for a couple of weeks. And yeah, I just think it's a cool theme song. Now before I, just to be clear to listeners,

I'm literally going to moderate this and I'll pipe in with my ignorant, you know, when I need clarification on things. Like that 50 still can't believe i think it's 15 i think you're reading it wrong no check again no check again i can't believe it either 50 all right so i'm going to moderate and milan you're going to host and john and way from post wrestling and guys great work there honestly i wish i i mean i guess i should just become a wrestling fan so I can spend more time with your content because you guys are still like, give us an update on what you're up to. Like, you're still rolling your own kicking ass over there. some immediate interest just in terms of how all these wrestling companies and UFC react to all of this. But, you know, we could be staring at this for several months at the time. That's what we're thinking. And things might slow down. So we kind of went into it with that expectation. And, you

know, surprising or not, you know, as Wei said, like these companies did not stop they were able to run their shows uh ufc is now off to fight island for four cards coming up in july wwe has never stopped aew has never stopped and in the midst of all this have been some of like the biggest news stories to hit the industry in quite some time so it's been busier than ever and we've seen that kind of reflected with our listenership at the time. I was looking at the fact that we would probably see a drop-off throughout this whole time, but it's relatively maintained, like a consistency factor this many months in since March. So from that side of things, I mean, during this time, people are probably listening to a lot of podcasts. And with wrestling and MMA, it's been incredibly newsworthy during these past couple of months. Primarily because if you're a big hockey fan or NBA fan or MLB fan, there's been nothing.

I mean, I get bored stiff hearing about what phase two might look like, when it will start, where it might be. Give me a break. We need some action. At least there is something happening in your universe. The topic of phases, I mean, doesn't even seem to be a conversation all that much in professional wrestling. It's just been, you know, go, go, go this entire time. Yeah, they've been limiting crowds.

They've been doing shows in front of no crowds at all. But these shows have been consistent. Every single week we've had like several hours to discuss and that's really for better or worse but you know much of the conversation isn't just about the the content that they produce but whether or not these shows should be happening at all okay on that note before i pull a beastie boys and pass the mic to milan here uh sean who's a loyal listener of your program and mine i always wish i could see those venn diagrams like the toronto mic audience and the post wrestling audience and find those guys in the middle they'd be very happy right now i

would think but sean he says can you ask them how they feel about wrestling shows in an empty arena and should they be continued so open with sean's question and then i'm going to pass the mic to malone yeah well i i i feel that WWE has, I think, been very reckless throughout this period. They only began COVID testing, like proper COVID testing a few weeks ago, and they've had several failures. I mean, the number now is believed to be

like at minimum 30 people in that company that have been doing these shows that have been infected. So when you're looking at this company, the biggest advantage for the promotions, but disadvantage for the staff and talent is the fact this is not like the NHL or NBA, where you have a players association that adds that layer of protection for the players, that this is a negotiation process to get players back onto the ice, back onto the field. In wrestling, it's just been, the option has been there. You don't have to do these shows, but we're moving forward. So a lot of them are going to follow their leadership and

they're going through with these shows and it's not doing this in a bubble. They're traveling all over the country. They're coming to Florida every other week, which is a state that has just exploded with positive cases. So yeah, there's a state that has just exploded with positive cases. So, yeah, there's a lot of concern when you're watching this. Their competitor, AEW, is also running shows in a semi-outdoor venue in Florida. They have been doing COVID testing much longer. But still, you watch these shows, and it's not like watching a traditional show. You are watching with a certain level of concern for

the caution or lack thereof that's being exhibited by these promoters so i'd be lying to say i'm not uneasy about watching these shows and it's and that's been you know borne out with you know a lot of stories in wwe of people who have either publicly disclosed that they got the virus or rumored reports of a vaster number having COVID-19. Didn't I see on my Twitter timeline a few weeks ago, maybe there was a ringside reporter who said she got it a second time? Am I, or I don't know. I read something.

Yeah, LeBrockston. LeBrockston, yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So I'm sure more of this will be sprinkled in once I pass the mic to Milan here. But what I want to do is when you, when you guys were on a year ago, John and way,

did I give you lasagna from Palma pasta? Oh, you did. You did. It was delicious. I was going to, yeah, I need a review now.

Like, and no, no, no lying to me either. Was it really delicious? Was that, was it great? You know,

it's honestly tough to go wrong with any sort of lasagna, but this one in particular, I had a really great time. Yeah. Please send my regards to Palma herself. I really enjoyed the meat lasagna. That was my chosen one of the options that you provided us. I've never left an interview with, like, such a – it felt like going to a kid's birthday party where you get, like, the gift bag at the end, your little loot bag.

And, I mean, it was a wonderful meal. I heavily endorse Palma pasta. And I would say that to any critics if Palma herself came on for a future. Well, you know, Palma is still with us. I want to just shout out Palma. Palma is the matriarch of the Petrucci family. And I think she's in her late 80s now. But, you know, she's still still still with us and still still active. I don't think she goes in her late 80s now. But, you know, she's still with us and still active.

I don't think she goes into the stores anymore. But I think her husband does. And I think he's still going in whenever he can. I don't know about during COVID times. But shout out to Palma. Thanks for supplying the lasagna for John and Wei. Sounds like they loved it. I'm going to crack open.

I wish you guys were here because I would pass you a cold Great Lakes. But I'm going to crack open a Octopus guys were here because uh i would uh pass you a cold great lakes but i'm gonna crack open a octopus wants to fight and next time i see you guys i owe you some great lakes beer uh for sure and one thing that's changed since you were here is uh there's a fantastic service for uh like if you need curbside uh notifications like is it garbage day is it recycling day is it the yard? Is it recycling day? Is it the yard waste pickup day? Has it changed because of a holiday?

Is COVID messed with the schedule? All that is a very convenient free service. If you go to garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike, everybody, all the FLTMs who have tried it have raved about it. So you both please and Milan, that's where you're going to go, right? Garbageday.com slash Toronto Mike.

And real estate, real quick, I want to shout out Austin. Austin Keitner from the Keitner Group. I was biking the other day, and I passed a couple of properties he's got for sale. If you're looking to buy and or sell, text Toronto Mike to 59559 to engage Austin Keitner. to engage Austin Keitner. And without further ado, I would like to symbolically pass the mic to Milan, who's a very safe 10,

what would you say, 10 feet away from me right now? At least. I can't get angry enough to get my spittle that far. Great setup you have here, though. Thank you. Oh, and I was just pointing, and you can only see it on Periscope, but a cardinal was just like six feet above you in that tree a beautiful cardinal and then it flew into this next one i wish uh john and uh way we're

here to enjoy the uh birds but uh go ahead this be the permanent setup no can i tell you i without a doubt when we have the vaccine and everything returns to normal on a nice day like this i'm not doing it in my stupid basement i'm doing it out here like this is something that covet has brought me that will uh survive past the pandemic so it's it sounds seamless like you're listening to this i don't know how many like i've been listening to like uh sportsnet when elliot friedman does his hits from his backyard and the birds like i figure this guy lives in like the jungle like in a safari somewhere with all the birds. But I mean, your backyard, I mean, this was tailor made for your podcast setup. I think it's I don't think anyone listening to this would would sense any difference from this versus indoors.

It's because when I started this thing eight years ago, my buddy Andrew Stokely said, if you're going to have noise around you, because at the time, you know, I have I have plenty of children and things going on. So I he said, get the unidirectional mics, mics he says you got to be right on them so you will hear that periodically get on that mic but you know things i i recorded from the opera house while the dj was like i mean how many decibels was that that was in the room behind me and we still sounded pretty damn good because you have to be right on these mics so they're perfect for outdoor recordings was that the dave i listened to that show by the way okay that was not the dave hodge special that was different uh that's someone else recorded that and i just posted it but you listened to that one eh uh john i listened to that show i remember it pretty distinctly because i was on

my way to a wedding in niagara falls and it was one of these weddings that it was mandatory, my attendance to be there. And I was just sick as a dog, sitting in the backseat. And I put this show on and listen to the entire thing. So that is that is what I equate with that wedding is feeling extremely sick and listening to that show for Martin Streak. Right for Martin. So that's that was for Martin Streak. That was 10 years after his passing. Which, by the way, today, I believe it... I've got to check my... That all kind of makes me very sad.

That's right, it was this week. I believe, if it wasn't today, it was like yesterday. It was the anniversary 11 years ago that Martin Streak took his own life. But that was, yeah, we all got together and it was a great three hour episode in live from the floor i didn't edit a stitch of that in it and i think i left and just like two minutes after i left i think strombo showed up but okay yeah so yeah go dig up if people want to hear

that that was really fun but milan please the floor is yours thank you thank you well first of all uh way and john thank you very much for joining us today here um obviously i'm a big fan of postwrestling.com and all the great work you guys have done, especially over the last few months. You guys touched, Wei touched upon it earlier with everything going on with the pandemic, everything around, you know, the George Floyd situation,

the tragedy there, the speaking out movement, which we'll discuss, just everything what's going on here. Has it been difficult to do the shows just from a personal uh viewpoint has it been difficult to do the shows um certainly i think there are some topics that um you know are forcing us to get out of our comfort zone and in we really are a wrestling podcast and we're wrestling you know journalists and podcasters and talking about things such as just even things related to COVID or civil rights is usually out of our wheelhouse. But I would say for our podcast, we've been lucky in that I think

our audience has been incredibly receptive to times when we've really ventured ventured off course uh and off topic um like much of our shows begin with like a half hour of just discussion of nothing related to pro wrestling often and our audience you know much to my confusion like wants more of that at times and so i think you know talking about real life is something that is, I would say, I think necessary on our part. There's certainly when something as big as the murder of George Floyd occurs, it's really difficult to go on and pretend to talk about fake fighting as if nothing had occurred. So I think talking about the real world that's out there is just, I don't know, a part of our lives. And therefore, it will be a part of our work as well.

John? Yeah, I mean, I think it's been challenging, but in a good way. I just don't feel we would be doing what our site kind of set out to be. I mean, it's not like we sat down and, you know, just carved out, you know, this is stories we want to cover. And this is what we, it's like the site kind of evolved into something that, you know, we will cover all of the wrestling and MMA subjects. But a lot of times, like with, with other sports, like the real world intersects and in, in our specific field,

I mean, a lot of it has kind of intersected within professional wrestling and i just feel that it would be insincere to just simply come on when all this stuff is happening and just focus on what is happening on the screen there's so much more that that is involved with it so i'm i've been really happy with how we've tackled a lot of these bigger topics, how they relate to pro wrestling, how they are topics at large that we're having a lot of different people come on and explain their perspectives. I've found it to be, you know, very educational for myself as, you know, a white male, I have a very different perspective on things and my upbringing versus ways versus other people attached to our site so that that's kind of how i've looked at this period

and these like last few months i i truly believe have been some of like the best work that we have put forward not just way and i like there's a number of people attached to our site no i'd agree to that and i i think you guys have shown a great balance and having fun with the show. You know, that's what wrestling is at the end. But at the same time, being informative and showing the necessary compassion and empathy of sort of what is going on in the world. And I remember the, I believe it was the weekend when Hana Kimura, when she passed away, and you can really sense it from listening to Wei and both of you, you know, it really came

through. and both of you. You know, it really came through. And sometimes, you know, I remember the day, I think, Shad Gaspard was missing and passed away. Yeah, it really was. And, you know, sometimes the last thing you almost want to do is talk about, you know, a segment on Raw, but you guys have really found that balance.

And I want to commend both of you. And a special shout out to uh to andrew thompson as well uh my buddy on linkedin uh and a post contributor yeah it was uh you guys have done some great work so i just want to start off by saying that um i want to start off with some a few heavy topics first i guess uh the discussion of the speaking out movement um uh your show has really been at the forefront, in my opinion, not only reporting on this, but also having guests such as Kirsten Ashley and you had Emily Pratt on yesterday. Of course, the accusations starting off with against David Starr and a spread to prominent names such as Joey Ryan, Matt Riddle, Dave Lagana,

Jay Lethal yesterday. Obviously, we're sort of at the infancy of all of this. And I just want to get your thoughts on sort of what's occurred. But more importantly, what can the companies, the industry as a whole, can do to make things safer for the current generation and the next generation of female talent coming forward? I think the second question is the more complicated one, and that's sort of the position that the industry is in. It's all of these stories have just hit people one after the other, and they were horrifying stories to read about, and there's going to be a lot of fallout from that. But the next step is how, how do you have oversight for an industry that is made up of like largely independent

contractors spread out throughout the world, different scenes, different economic levels, in terms of what these companies can do. Many of them, when we're talking about the independent level, they live hand to mouth as it is. Are they equipped to have a, an HR component to their once a month shows in front of 50 people? It's, you know, there is some regulation of professional wrestling, but, but not a lot. And, and our athletic commission's really in that kind of a position where they can be that third party where those that have either witnessed sexual assault and victims of sexual assault can go to. I think these are all the questions that need to be asked right now. And I think a lot of people do lean on the industry leaders that do have the capabilities to put those measures in place. Because this is not a case of just a few bad apples in the industry.

This is pretty widespread. And this is something that goes right down to the beginning steps for a lot of performers. When you're hearing about the dynamics between coaches and young trainees and just that power disparity and how coaches have exploited those relationships. It's a very deep-seated problem and I don't sit here with all the answers, but I think what's imperative is that those discussions are had and ideas are thrown out there because the worst thing that can happen is eight months from now, when a lot of these companies are coming back, that this is not a front of mind discussion point. And suddenly things just, people don't want to address this. They don't want to think about the industry from the underbelly side of things. And a year from now, more of these stories are coming

out because there were no significant actions and measures put in place. That's my concern right now. because there were no significant actions and measures put in place. That's my concern right now. Without question. I think much of this, especially at a grassroots level, really needs to come from policing within the communities themselves and an ability to recognize when something is wrong and really building a level of comfort for people to come forward and speak to to to these organizations themselves whether it just be

you know a local indie or a wrestling school when they notice something is wrong and to have a confidence that something will be done when people come forward and actually say something another thing that i think really you know hopefully will change as a result of all this is the appointment of women at the top in these organizations. Just to have some sort of presence there. And as well, people of color, you know, just to have representation at the tops of these organizations. And again, it could be as small as an independent wrestling company. It could be as big as, you know, a larger, you know, professional wrestling company. Or it could be, you know, something as small as a larger professional wrestling company, or it could be something as small as a wrestling school, just to have those presences up top, just to be dissenting voices, to be able to speak up when something is wrong. I think hopefully that is something that will be a big change that will come out of all this that will stick.

So far, the focus has really been on the independent scene. I know there's been some talent in NXT UK a little bit has been mentioned as well. But I think, John, you made a great point about the resources that these companies have. And especially at a time when a lot of these independent companies are really struggling, losing WrestleMania and the income this year. And who knows what the future holds next year, if WrestleMania will even be held in Los Angeles. And that's a huge income source for a lot of these independent companies. So I agree. I hope this is not something that's sort of shunned aside.

But have you been surprised that current or former WWE talent has largely been not named? And then, you know, how far back do you kind of go? Yeah, I mean, it's it's I think that that is where, you know, we've seen a lot of coverage of the entire speaking out movement. But it's largely been within the industry of wrestling media that has mainly been focusing on it. And I would say to an extent, it has gotten outside of just the wrestling media bubble in terms of the British scene,

where it's just like that has been kind of ground zero of this whole movement. But I feel that with WWE or AEW, if there were a major star that were that was accused of something that would probably get the attention of larger media outlets that have, you know, really not not focused on this. And it's, it's very delicate to report on a lot of this. It's in just about every case that we're talking about, it's allegations that have been presented. But, you know, you you try to report on this in as fair a manner as possible.

And without something like a police report, it's a lot of, you know, this is the statement from this person. This is the response from the other person. And it's kind of left in the hands of the public to make an assessment. And it's kind of left in the hands of the public to make an assessment. And that's kind of the issue that is at hand now, where some performers are not going to come back from this. Many that should not, I don't feel, come back from this because of just the slew of allegations against them. And then there's others, like you have to look at each story on its own and kind of

assess. And that becomes very difficult, I find, to report on. And I would be curious, like from larger media outlets that don't want to dive into some of these these stories as well. I think that if if it were major names from national companies involved, I think that would somewhat force their hand to to look at this entire issue beyond just one or two names. Wei? Well, I think much of it has to do with the fact that something like this is going on across so many other... Okay, Wei, hold on. I might have accidentally, uh muted you okay you're back i meant to mute

milan and i muted the wrong guy my apologies please all good all good all good uh yeah no i just wanted to say i i feel like you know part of the reason is because like something like this is happening across so many other you know forms of media in Hollywood and music and comedy. Places where I think the public have a lot more connection with than something as niche as professional wrestling. I guess how many allegations of sexual abuse could they really fit into a typical news day when there's already so much going on you know in in in with these bigger celebrities that i think people have heard about so part of that's i think part of the reason why some of this might might get lost and really it's also the fact that it's like wrestling is still largely a bit of a niche thing especially

when you're not talking about wwe yeah definitely definitely. And I think the WWE in particular, they've shown sort of selective hearing. If you say, you know, depending on who the star is, especially when it comes to wellness policies and things like that. And you're right, it is a very delicate topic. But, you know, the one that sort of reminded me of was, you know, arguably their biggest star of all time,

Steve Austin, who continues to host a prominent show on the network. Yet he's had domestic violence allegations against him way back in 2002 from his ex-wife. And I'm just going to read something here. This is an article from Pro Wrestling Net. Quoting Debra, a former WWE star, the talk turned to her marriage with Steve Austin. She said Austin started flirting with her, and they eventually dated. Quoting Debra, former WWE star, it was the third time Steve had hit me and it was just getting out of hand. I had to put a stop to it. It's embarrassing because it's my whole personal life is on the news and

everyone knows about it. You know, my point being, how far do you go back kind of a thing with this? You know, I just want to get your guys' feedback on it. Well, I think with the Austin one and that's,

you know, and that goes beyond just like allegations. Like he pleaded no contest to those charges as well and he served a year of probation as well and i mean that that becomes as well the the other discussion point here is that what what is held against somebody once they have gone in front of a court and they have whatever debt to society they have been given and served out uh does that stay on them as this scarlet letter i think it's absolutely fair game that that needs to be brought up in the steve austin story his his arrest in 2002 and and that allegation as well i'm i'm someone that does not believe that you cannot come back from certain infractions. I would hope that as a society that we can look at people and not dismiss their history.

But at the same time, I don't think that disqualifies you from being reintegrated into society. And I think that that is a larger discussion point about people that go through such such an ordeal. and then after the fact you would hope that they rehabilitate themselves and can be productive members of society that should be our hope you know with Steve Austin we're talking about something now that was 18 years ago but you know when it comes to Steve Austin like it's it's not something that is focused upon and there is an element I feel with not all fans, but I think a segment of them that will gloss over a lot of that stuff

because they have a certain image of their heroes that they look at. And they want to dismiss the negative aspects, but that's not how life works. It's not just simply taking out the worst moments. It's presenting the entire picture. And that is needed know presenting the entire picture and that is needed to paint the entire picture of steve austin i agree with john and i think that's part of the reason why conversations like this can be so uncomfortable because it makes everybody confront their own perhaps biases if you happen to be a fan of people with a really shady past. And, you know, this goes beyond professional wrestling

and extends to sports, certainly. You know, Mike Tyson is still, I think, for many people, a hot button issue. Michael Jackson, you know, is still a very difficult issue. And how many times, you know, does like Thriller come on and do we just listen to the song and don't think about the man's life? It's, I don't really have a clear answer. And I think on a case-by-case basis, we kind of have to assess.

But it's especially important now that all these things have come up to the forefront of conversation again, that we really analyze how we feel about rehabilitation and what for each of us that line might be. Absolutely. And I didn't mean to go back 18 years,

but at the same time, it was a fabulous mula, right? I think the battle royal was named after her. There was an outcry. Snakers got involved, and all of a sudden, this is things that happened years and years, even decades ago,

and she was swiftly removed. So when there's incentive, the company and the WWE in particular has proven that they will take action. But it's very selective action. Well, I mean, it's selective based on, I think what,

what the public, you know, is making noise about and, and sponsor pressure as well. In that case, I mean, they are going to react to pressure points and it's like, and I think that that goes for,

for many companies. I mean, look at the story involving Washington right now with the NFL and like the changing of that name. It's like, that's been a horrendous name for our lifetimes. And it's been the actions of sponsors and pressure that is now forcing that change. I, I, you would hope that, would hope that certain just right-wrong would dictate things, but that's not the reality. It's often other pressures and financial ones as well

that force change. And whether it was the Moolah Battle Royal, that was ultimately Snickers. Now, some of that can come from a fan base that is complaining to a sponsor. But that to me, when you look at the history of WWE, they are going to push through unless it is pressure from someone of influence on them. But shouldn't they take the lead on this though, guys? Instead of being pressured by, you know, Snickers or, you know, Progressive wants to say something on Fox.

Where's the leadership coming from? I think the leadership is largely led by, you know, their bottom line. A company that was running shows in Florida every other week without any COVID-19 testing throughout a pandemic. So I think you have to be selective when you look at who your leaders are. In a perfect world, Milan, sure.

But I don't think that you look at who your leaders are. In a perfect world, Milan, sure. But I don't think that you look at WWE as the moral compass of their industry. Oh, I totally agree. Their leadership is their stock price at the end of the day. And I would say that's the large determining factor of all their decisions. And oftentimes, like we saw it when several times they've been to Saudi Arabia,

most notably in the midst of the Khashoggi murder. Definitely. Did not stop. And, you know, no questions even necessarily from the shareholders in these conference calls. Yeah, for sure. Do you guys believe this? You know, I'll start with Wei. Will this lead to... I think Mike has a question.

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, Mike. No, I was going to chime in. I just wanted to tell Milan that he's kicking ass here. He's delivering the real talk. It's like what a tremendous host you are, honestly. Well, it helps when you've got

tremendous guests. I think that's the first time in the history of this program, what are we on? Episode 680, where I think I could have gone for a bike ride. It's episode one of Toronto Milan. And I'm listening in the headphones as if I'm listening to another podcast, right?

And you sound like you're an experienced host. And again, John and Wade, great guests. And you are like the straw that's stirring this drink. This is real talk. I thought we might be hearing about... I know no disrespect to all the wrestling fanatics listening to us right now but it's a little it's a little tiny bit i find it a tiny bit silly just a tiny bit just a tiny bit the uh you know

the whole operation but you're actually talking about subject matter that i think is important and real and then i hear you when i heard i think it was john who chimed in and said like if the wwe that's not the moral compass i was thinking right like off the top i heard john talking about the lack of cope it sounded very very very irresponsible and reckless the whole fact that it was happening like they don't almost like they see their athletes as assets or I don't know what they see as product or like, like, like they weren't deemed human in my as I listened to you guys talk about this. Like, I didn't know all this was going on. It doesn't seem safe and it doesn't seem responsible. Oh, without question.

I don't even know how you I really don't know. And again, I'm going to pass the mic back to Milan in a second. But I don't know how you watch it and enjoy it. Because I think I'm going to opt out of this Major League Baseball season. I've never opted out of a Major League. I have been loving my Blue Jays since 1983. I seriously think I'm going to take a pass on this season. You know why? It doesn't feel right.

Like, it doesn't feel right. I can't enjoy sports if it doesn't feel right. I can't imagine how you enjoy, and I understand Wei and John are watching from a journalistic perspective. Like they're covering this, if you will, and doing a great job. But how do you as a fan enjoy WWE right now? It's been really difficult to watch.

You know, not only from... But you're still watching. You know, to be honest with you, I'm not watching the show as closely as before. You know, I listen to the guys, the post-wrestling not watching the show as closely as before you know i listen to to the uh uh to the guys to post wrestling after the show uh and i find that more entertaining than the product to be honest with you well it sounds more entertaining to me i'll take the compliment yeah all right that'll be sorry go ahead well for me like much much of it comes down to um if i wasn't covering

this for work like whether or not I'd be comfortable watching it. It really would depend on what lengths these organizations were going to ensure the safety of the performers and the people working at these shows, you know, extending beyond just the players. and staff, you know, all the people that are working at these ballparks. It to me is incredibly important for all of these companies to do a level of PR to assure that their audience, to assure their audiences that what they're watching is sort of like a relatively, you know, guilt free. And I think, you know, clear conscience activity that's being performed out there. Yeah, without question. You know, their marketing slogan is putting smiles on people's faces.

being performed out there. Yeah, without question. You know, their marketing slogan is putting smiles on people's faces. It rings very hollow because, let's face it, money's the huge driving factor here. They have over $400 million in deals with Fox and the USA Network, with NBCUniversal this year,

and that's the key. That's what's driving it. Yes, I know. Yeah, money is money, money, money. As it is with all the sports teams. So let me ask, let me do my quick question before I pass back the baton. But John and Wade,

if you did not have post-wrestling in this tremendous program and where you cover wrestling, would you still be watching as a fan as regularly as you have in the past? Yeah, certainly it wouldn't be to this level. I mean, this is, you know, it's a daunting amount that I think we go through in a given week and a lot of, you know, hours and nights

dedicated to all the stuff that you have to watch just to keep up with all of it. I certainly would be watching a fraction of it. During this period specific, I can't imagine that I would be watching too much of it. Like I generally have not enjoyed too many of these shows in front of the empty arenas. For MMA, I found it to be different where it's just totally different that the lack of a crowd, it has not hindered my viewing of it i i certainly look at ufc that they i think were very callous in kind of how they came out of the gate specifically uh dana white when this whole

pandemic began but i think when you when we compare it to the pro wrestling side of things i mean the ufc say what you will about what they're doing and sending these fighters to abu dhabi the measures and protocol that they have put in place it is night and day compared to pro wrestling. Like they, a fighter that will go through this has to go to a host city to test and quarantine. They will then go through a total of five COVID tests before they get off the Island.

There's quarantine periods in there. It's like, you can be against the idea of fighting during a pandemic. And I get that, but they are sparing no expense when it comes to the idea of fighting during a pandemic and i get that but they are sparing no expense when it comes to uh the level of of testing and precautions that they're trying to take so to me it's less of a kind of moral dilemma oh you said it guilt-free like the whole point of sports and sports entertainment like wwe is uh it's a distraction it's entertainment it's completely

100 so that you can just kind of unplug from the, the terrible real world we live in and just sort of like, uh, enjoy some like distraction, like entertainment. And if it's not, if you feel guilty watching or it doesn't feel right,

well, that blows up the whole thing. Like to me, then it's like, um, just shut it off and go for a walk like, or a bike ride or something. But that's why I think you have so many people who choose not to follow

the news or not to follow what's going on so that they can enjoy the world guilt-free. If you just even flip on Twitter, there's clearly plenty to be guilty for. What color pill is that?

Wait, what color pill is that? Is that the blue pill or the red pill? I get confused. It's been a while since I've seen that movie yeah i think we all know did anyone see the third one real quick did anyone ever see the third matrix i don't know i just i just just occurred to me that i forgot to watch that third matrix so no just a lot of time now i I wish I did. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, John. Yeah, as far as what Malone was asking, sorry, I've lost the train of thought. I was thinking about the Matrix. On that note, that's perfect.

Yeah, now we're all stuck on Trinity and Neo. Back to you, Malone. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. I apologize for interrupting your program. The Octopus Wants to Fight, Milan. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. I apologize for interrupting your program. The octopus wants to fight is great. Is there anything you want to sponsor, Mike, on my show? No, brought to you by Fast Time, where you can get 50% off battery installation for a limited time until my mom's birthday on July 31st.

And go to the Richmond Hill location, say hi to Milan, and get that 50% discount. They've never offered that before. There you go. I feel like buying a watch and just throwing the battery in the garbage so I can take advantage of this offer. I'm all for it. Go ahead, Milan. You're doing great. I don't know how to segue. Oh, can you turn your hat? You see your Raptor hat? Yeah. Could you put it

in front of your white paper facing the camera? How's that? I just want to remind everybody that the Raptors are 2019 champions. Please continue. That's it. I don't know how to segue from that, but I'll do my best here. Sort of moving on from the speaking out movement, Wade, do you believe this will lead to the correction,

accountability, and other troubling areas in the world of wrestling, i.e. the rampant bullying issues, um, you know, current in the past, especially in light of the, uh, the tragic death of, uh, Hana Kimura. Um, there's obviously been numerous bullying incidents, uh, in the past in the company. And sorry, guys, and just before I kind of want to mention here, you know, the, uh, to the inclusion of John, uh,shaw layfield jbl um into the uh 2020 wwe hall of fame um if there was one this year and he's been an alleged main perpetrator of many of these incidents um some examples include you know justin roberts sealing of his passport you know workplace harassment uh things with joey styles and renee dupree and steve blackman alleged

homophobic comments. And of course with Mauro Ranallo, someone who you both have worked with very closely. And Mauro has been very open about his mental health issues and JBL was rumored to be perpetrated or one of the alleged folks behind that. So just want to talk about the whole bullying culture. Will that lead to, you know, what the speaking out movement will lead to something, you know, a solution and when

it comes to this? My hope is that, you know, already now within the current generation, I really do hope a lot of the mistakes of the past are gone., are, are gone. And I'm, I'm, I'm sure that's probably very naive to assume, but I would imagine that a JBL wouldn't be able to exist in a modern day WWE locker room. That's my hope at least. Um, you know, as far as like going back and like WWE preventing a JBL from entering their hall of fame, I personally don't see that happening unless there was tremendous public pressure. And, you know, they're very, all could be like, like you, you had mentioned with the Moolah incident, if there was a sudden, you know,

campaign online, you know, to, to, to, to prevent JBL from entering their own hall of fame. I could see it potentially happening, but beyond that, I think they tend to really enjoy protecting their own. And JBL is very much one of their own. Somebody who's been with their company for decades now and somebody who I think they would really be happy to celebrate. They'll probably just focus on his in-ring accomplishments and everything

else outside of it. That's off the record. I think we'll probably just focus on his in-ring accomplishments and everything else outside of it that's off the record, I think will probably stay that way. So I personally don't see much happening in the way of like, you know, removing him from, I guess, any sort of celebratory event. John? Yeah, I think I think what you're talking about is like a cultural shift within pro wrestling like on the bullying side i think that so much of that it's like it's you have now did this outlet online where it's almost like that is that's the game that you're almost engaging in on a daily basis where it is just going to be you know a tremendous toll uh if you're a public performer and what you're subjecting yourself to on a daily basis. Now, specific to the pro wrestling industry, I hope that it's going to be the

younger generation, the people that are getting into the industry and are hopefully exposed to some of these stories that realize we don't want this to be our industry. We don't want to glorify the past. And the stuff that's all put under the umbrella of it's just ribbing. It's just hazing. It's like pranks are well and good. Innocent pranks, it's like no one is sounding an alarm over. It's when they go past a certain point that these are no longer pranks. This is like torturous incidents occurring at your business, at your workplace that don't fly in 2020.

And for the longest time, it's not only that this stuff has been accepted, like it's been glorified. It's been like stuff that is just presented as, you know, comedy when you hear these interviews and guys uh talk about this stuff and it's like that to me that that's a shifting culture and it's not just well that's the pro wrestling industry it's like we we have to get away from those kind of blanket statements that that's just part and parcel with the industry uh when you hear about some of these horrifying uh instances of hazing that go on that uh don't exist uh at the college level anymore when you hear about fraternities and what's been cracked down upon um you know just the fact that pro wrestling it's often going to be met with what mike brought up is that when you think of pro

wrestling you think of it as kind of goofy and that allows pro wrestling to skirt by a lot of cultural norms and standards that I think it gets away with. And that to me is not, not an excuse for this. And I think a light should be shined upon this because this is not, uh, I would hope for the performer's sake that that's not a culture they want to extend to, to the next generation. No. And I agree. And I think there's pranks, like you said, Owen Hart style, you know, the ones you used to hear about that were in good nature.

And then there's JBL, who I'm just amazed how this man continues to remain employed by this company, and I agree with Wei. Who's JBL? He's a wrestler, a longtime wrestler, a talent. Is that his handle, JBL? Yeah. Or is that short for something? Yeah, John Bradshaw layfield oh i

never heard the name sort of yeah became uh a jr ewing type uh character and um but behind the scenes uh many talent have expressed uh um you know shock and horror and disappointment uh about the way he treated um you know you know And just to kind of carry on that conversation, like, yes, I think JBL has been, you know, a culprit of a lot of these, you know, allegations, but at the same time, like I, I, how, how responsible do you place the company for allowing it all to occur? And what role did somebody like JBL play within a system that was designed for somebody to have that role to weed out, for instance, people who might not belong in their

fraternity or something like that. For sure. And you look at someone like, arguably their biggest star in the company right now, Randy Orton and some of his antics in the past. And yet he continues to remain, some of the things he's done with female talent and things like that alleged. So they could punish like somebody like JBL. But ultimately, I think that, you know, doesn't wash away the responsibility WWE has of fostering an environment where a guy like that can can flourish. But it all leads to my point again. And you guys said it again. The WWE is I think when it comes to the speaking out movement, when it comes to bullying, uh, we'll talk about race relations in a moment. It starts with the leadership of one man, Vince McMahon.

It really does. And that's my concern that this company, if like you said, John, if this is going to be the moral compass, I'm quite concerned about the future holds. Well, yeah, I think that there's certainly like the day that Vince McMahon is no longer running that company, it will force a significant change, I think, to the culture of that company with, you know, you look at the WWE. I mean, they have they have recently like opened up now avenues to go within the company when it comes to like mental health

issues. I mean, things that you never thought the WWE would be addressing to that level. I mean, but it's been slow. I think that it's not been at the same rate that society has moved forward. And I think if nothing else, as a corporate responsibility, they need to be addressing all of these issues and be at the forefront when it comes to so much of the spotlight that's on the industry. It is part and parcel with WWE that people will focus upon. And that is Vince McMahon's company.

That is the one that leads this company. And this is not a guy with a spotless resume when it comes to uh you know his character and what kind of leader he has been when it comes to social responsibilities and what like he exists in a world in wwe where the outside world does not penetrate into their bubble that it does not exist a pandemic is not going to ruin our plans. We are going to move forward. And that's always been the edict of Vince McMahon is not allowing real world issues to pierce a hole into his bubble. No, totally agree. And I think Tony Khan is trying, but he's still, you know, AEW is

still relatively new to the business and new to the industry. I'm looking forward to seeing what changes he does. Where do you see Paul Levesque's role in this then? He seems like he's trying to operate with some level of autonomy doing what he can with NXT. can with NXT and I would have to imagine at some point someday thinking about ultimately filling in for that creative role once Vince is no longer doing the job he's creating his own team down in NXT and I would have to imagine at some point just really kind of waiting for that switch if it ever comes it might be a long time at this point but you know he still continues to really demonstrate i think what he's capable of with that product down there yeah it's been really interesting to see the evolution uh you know he was much maligned uh as a talent holding other talent back and now he's

really adapted that sort of adopted that uh uncle paul sort of uh uh label with what he's done with nxt yeah but ultimately i see like the succession plan being much much much less like a straight line from one person to the next that if you take vincent man out of that position i think it's largely a team that will assemble the roles that vincent man. And Paul Levesque will be one of those people and probably a very influential one. But I see that being, you know, responsibilities that are spread out across a much wider variety of people.

And that's probably a good thing that you have things spread across as opposed to just one person. As it, you know, ultimately Vince McMahon is the, he is the last, you know, line of defense when it comes to what you see on television and what gets the okay. And what gets turned down. Absolutely. Uh, switching gears a little bit, uh, like to talk about race relations and diversity in the world of wrestling. Are you going to lighten it up a little bit? Yeah, absolutely.

I promise we will soon. Talent that really stands out, such as Kofi Kingston, Keith Lee, Velveteen Dream, Montez Ford, who I'm really big on, I think he's a future WrestleMania main eventer, Bianca Belair. Will they finally get a chance, in your opinion, to get that brass ring and elevate, you know, sort of from the current standing. It's been proven in the past that when Vince is financially motivated, and I think of Jinder Mahal, you know, when they were trying to penetrate the Indian market, that he'll give that push, so to speak. Just want to get your thoughts on, you know, on the whole issue of race relations and

diversity and will this company give that, you know, visible minority wrestler sort of the brass ring to take it to the next level? I mean, I think in those specific instances, absolutely somebody like Montez Ford, I really would be disappointed if he didn't go on to achieve far greater success than what he's just currently doing as part of a tag team. The man is just so charismatic and so incredibly talented that they would have to try really hard to screw that up. And so we'll have this conversation perhaps you know two years from

now and we'll reassess but in her case in the case of bianca belair i really don't know what's going on like she made her debut and then all of a sudden she's just gone but there's another person who i really thought was a real slam dunk like in nxt i think she had just developed such a great personality that what is like taylor made i would say for a main roster type of audience. And yet still nothing, you know, who's to say in the future, I think what, what, what they'll do. But I have to imagine of that crop, I really would hope at least those two like would,

would go into greater success. And you, you know, we saw it, we saw Kofi mania occur. Like I don't know what much more needs to occur for them to know that the audience is sort of demanding a bit of a shift in the status quo. And the way that they gave Kofi that moment, I think unplanned initially. But then to have the run end just like that against Brock Lesnar and not to follow up with kofi after the fact has been really disappointing it seems like they're just kind of moving everything back to the way plans were and plans don't necessarily involve a kofi kingston as a champion yeah john yeah and i think as well like what you what you want is to have as much of a diversity behind the scenes uh when it comes to crafting these stories as you do on screen.

And I think that that, that is something as well, like the, you know, the, the WWE writer staff, like, I can't tell you the exact makeup of it, but we know like there, there are females on the staff. Like what, what is the quotient when it, when it comes to other, other ethnicities that are represented that are able to tell these stories in a way that is genuine and accurately portraying different characters. I think that we have seen like how big of a moment that was for so many last year with Kofi Kingston and just wanting to see that someone like a Kofi kingston can ascend to that level and for the longest time believing like there was this this glass ceiling that they can be part of the show but not on top of the show so i think like that is that was a very like powerful scene for a lot

of people at wrestlemania last year and i think that there is certainly certainly a need for that further diversification, both behind the scenes as well as in front, that you're going to be able to tell a more varied level of storytelling involving these characters. And if it comes down to a lot of these performers that are delivering promos that are delivered to them, having them understand like how this character is going to communicate this story and, and working with those. So, I mean, those are all things that I kind of look for as well. And I think like the performers you named, like there is, there's tremendous talent that WWE has that should be stars. And I don't feel the WWE is a system where they're, they are not going to push someone because of their background. I think if they believe they can be successful and make money off a character, they will. It's finding that ability to make that connection with your audience and get them to the next level that

has been a stumbling block in their history. But isn't this the best time to do that? And nothing against Drew McIntyre or Braun Strowman, who are a great talent. But if you're going to try something, wouldn't now be the time, especially when you don't have to worry about house show attendance or pay-per-view buys or things like that? Wouldn't this be the perfect time to elevate someone like a Big E or someone like that to be on the secondary titles? beyond the secondary titles? I think it's hard during this time because you don't have that instant reaction. You don't have that ability to see if anyone makes movement when it comes to house show attendance or anything like that.

You're kind of left in this bubble to self-assess your product without the usual barometers of whether a character is connecting or not. I think it's incredibly difficult to try and get young, new performers up and running in this empty arena setting. I think it's very difficult. They've now introduced like their own trainees as audience members, but that isn't a real

audience that you're drawing from, that you're gauging reactions on. I think, you know, Drew McIntyre, like Waze brought this up many times. It's like, we don't know how well this guy is connecting in this top position because this is an unprecedented period. It's not like we're seeing if audiences are responding to him in this top baby face role.

Would they be turning on him if it was different? Like what would be the trajectory for him in this role with crowds? So, I mean, I look at this period that it's, you know, it gives you carte blanche to experiment with a lot of different ways and how you present pro wrestling. But in terms of the traditional ways of you call somebody up from NXT, you throw them on TV, it's throwing things against the wall. And it's based on your interpretation, whether it's sticking's throwing things against the wall and it's based on your interpretation whether it's

sticking or bouncing back as far as you know like shifting somebody like a biggie into the position of say you know what braun strowman ended up grabbing um to me that would have to suggest that they would put a priority on um you know um diversity in their main event scene and there's really nothing about their plans that have suggested to me that that is at the forefront of their thinking at all again the kofi kingston thing was something that the audience forced into the main event or at least that title program aerosol mania it was not part of their original plans and as soon as you know ultimately they were done with that they moved on back to their usual plans so you know i don't think that they are considering it i do feel like they're

at one time you know uh recently and maybe even still lingering you know to this day there's a great deal of pr that they were able to gain from promoting the women's revolution and making sure that the women were at the forefront so that they can you know main event wrestlemania and and really kind of promote that as sort of like their i guess their kind of woke period um as far as you know pushing other people of color at the forefront of for instance their male main event scene i don't see that they necessarily are caring about that so much yet. Yeah. And to be fair, they've done a great job with the women.

Asuka and Sasha Banks come to mind as their current champions. Also, just I think where you hit, you made a great point earlier about, you know, having people of color in the executive ranks. And I can't even tell you, you know, in that Vince McMahon, Paul Levesque, Bruce Pritchard, Kevin Dunn world, like who is the highest ranking visible minority executive within that company? You know, who can maybe help and move sort of some of these creative decisions forward? I wouldn't, John. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's not like what, when you're looking at like the, the, the, the executive level and those that are, you know, your, your showrunners. Yeah. It's like, that is, that is a major gap for the company. And that's, you know, those are the positions you have to look at of, you know, people with different perspectives, different life experiences, different ways of viewing this.

Like I would always want my, my creative process to, you know, encompass as many points of view as possible. I would, I would want to be able to, because you're, you're presenting a product where you're trying to reach so many people. It only behooves you to have people in those positions that would have as wide a variety that you can draw from. And that's something like at the higher end that certainly when you look at WWE's corporate makeup, they lack. Yeah, it's something Mike and Toronto, Mike, you've been at the forefront talking about sports media and the diversity in that. And you've had executives like Scott Moore on and discussing this topic. And it's something Donovan Bennett had a great article on.

I read that. Yeah, I shared it, too. And I had Donovan Bennett on it with Garvia Bailey talking about Black Lives Matter just a couple of months ago. But you're right. No, I've always... And mainly I talk about radio, but sports radio, as you know my thoughts on sports radio in this city, very male, very white, in a city that ain't, to borrow a line from The Wire.

This was the case, I mean, when we were in school, when John and I were part of Ryerson's RTA program. Yeah, it was always very odd, and I don't know exactly what the reason is. Um, but it's obviously something I've, I've always noticed. Well,

it's hard to miss, especially when they release a promo, they released this, uh, now infamous, uh, promotional, uh,

photo. It looked like looking like the last supper with, you know, Bob McCowan kind of in the center. Remember? And I, uh, I wrote a blog entry on Toronto, mike.com about, uh, Bob McCowan kind of in the center, remember? And I wrote a blog entry on TorontoMike.com about the white men

of the Fan 590 and they were talking about how they had like 12 opinions, one channel, 12 opinions, but, you know, all from a white male perspective.

It didn't seem very diverse. And then they make the move to hire Ashley Docking in the morning and that didn't last too long. Ashley was brought in, in the morning. Well, and that didn't last too long. So Ashley was brought in. Right. And you're right.

That didn't last very long. And now there's no, now, right now, as we speak, everyone who has a weekday date. So from the morning drive to afternoon drive during weekdays, it's completely white and completely male.

Like as it has been, you know, except for a few toes, you know, you can say, uh, Barb DiGiulio was there for a while. you know you can say uh barb de julio was there for a while and uh uh who's double shock power who's yeah spider spider spider was there

for a little bit in the midday but yeah it's something you'd think uh they would be sensitive to in 2020 that the toronto is is potentially i don't know but I don't want to say, maybe it's New York, I don't know. Oh, you're right. But one of the most diverse cities, in terms of unique different languages spoken by citizens of this city, you won't find, maybe New York, but you won't find another city like Toronto. Yeah, well, I think Paul Jones now is on the air.

He's got his own show with Eric Smith. Oh, yeah, on Fan 590? Yeah, yeah, just started a few weeks ago. I didn't know that. I haven't been listening. That's something there. John, I just want to talk about Vince McMahon a little bit and sort of his actions, his legacy.

This is just what's happened the last four months. I just want to get your thoughts, so just bear with me here. First, we've discussed this sort of continuing on with television and risking the health of his talent, really in the name of money, in my opinion, especially when you hear the comments from Dr. Alex Patel, who's been on your show a number of times.

He's been really informative. What's his first name? Alex. Okay, because I know Dr. Patel, and the first name is a little different than Al Cash. Okay, that's one issue of course the controversy there uh the whole XFL bankruptcy uh here you have a billionaire not paying money owed uh that he had committed to um you know I understand it's legal but the optics

in my opinion are awful and the impact on those not being paid including former Argos coach Mark Cressman uh is owed money I missed the Mark Cressman era. Yeah, yeah. I thought you were going to say Bob Obilovich, but I think he passed away. No, I think he passed away. Yeah, Obie passed away, I think. And I only know pinball. And that stings because I know from a business owner

going through the whole episode with Sears and Eddie Lampert, you know, that kind of a thing, you know. The donation from Linda McMahon to Florida Governor DeSantis and being declared an essential business by the state on the same day. You know, the $18.5 million donation. The class action lawsuit from the firefighters pension system from Kansas City. John, I know you wrote a lot about that in your news update. And regarding their...

Oh, you're missing Mike from the wrestling industry. Nefarious dealings. I'm listening and thinking, oh, this is why I dropped out Oh, you're missing Mike from the wrestling industry? Nefarious dealings. I'm listening and thinking, oh, this is why I dropped out when the Ultimate Warrior lost that battle at the exhibition stadium to Hulk Hogan. That was Mr. Wonderful, I think. Oh, Mr. Wonderful. Sorry, Paul Orndorff. You're right.

What did I say? Who did I say? Ultimate Warrior. I'm sorry. It was Paul Orndorff, Mr're right. What did I say? Who did I say? Ultimate Warrior. I'm sorry. It was Paul Orndorff, Mr. Wonderful. But I was there, okay? 1986. 86 or 87. Exhibition Stadium.

One of those two. Anyway, it was a three count. I was in the freaking stadium. I saw the hand go down for that three count. Come on. That's it. That's it. Letting go of many performers, laying off hundreds of employees, talent, behind the scenes staff,

including Mike Chioda, who for some reason was let go. He's been with the company for 30 years. And they also let Maria Canales go, who was pregnant, and letting all of this talent go, you know, in the midst of a pandemic at a time when, you know, the company will have record revenues in 2020. The Dark Side of the Ring documentary on Nancy Argentino, the former girlfriend of Jimmy Superfly Snuka.

And there was loose allegations in the documentary about Vince McMahon's role of a cover-up in the death. Who made it? Is this an independent doc, or this is not a WWE doc? It's made by Vice. Okay. Yeah, getting huge ratings on Vice.

Evan Husney, I think, is the executive producer. Okay. Is it a Canadian show, guys? I don't know. i don't know yes producer yeah yeah um yeah and then also you know keep sticking on the dark side of the ring uh the documentary on owen hart and and john you did a great piece last year on post wrestling and that would be a great complimentary piece to uh to the dark side of the ring episode and just shedding light on you know uh on why uh his widow martha does not want want her husband's legacy to be celebrated in the WWE Hall of Fame.

It's the actions this company took after his death and throughout the process is just terrible. So kind of just, you know, there's a lot to digest there. This is a real good episode of the year. Yeah, yeah, it really is. You're really going to turn a lot of people on to this wonderful entertainment.

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's serious stuff. And I just kind of want to ask, I guess, Vince McMahon's legacy and sort of, you know, how this company, I guess, continues to get away with things. You know, we touched on a little bit earlier. Yeah. I mean, I always hate to rely on the cliche of uh his legacy is a complicated one but I mean the day that Vince McMahon is no longer around I think that the way he is going to be remembered is someone that was um I think all those things are going to be part of the Vince McMahon story

I think he will be celebrated by most that are going to cover him on a periphery level in terms of what he did for the wrestling industry. And I think those that dig deeper can talk into like the bigger issues of as much as he improved his business, was he more of a detriment to his industry as a whole and to the image that was projected. Like there was a time that professional wrestling was not met with just jokes and was, you know, something that was, you know, covered by by sports reporters and was, you know, it was understood what its place was in the sports ecosystem. People understood what wrestling was and what it wasn't.

was in the sports ecosystem. People understood what wrestling was and what it wasn't, but it came with a level of respectability when you had promoters such as a Paul Bosch or a Don Owen or a Frank Tunney up here in Toronto that, you know, professional wrestling was covered with a level of seriousness to it. And I think Vince McMahon certainly curbed that image significantly and he's been tremendously successful with it and will make more money through professional wrestling than any promoter before and probably after outside of WWE. So but it comes with, you know, his route to get there as well.

And it is filled with these stories. Milan just went on a filibuster there of the last three to four months of, you know, things that you can look at in terms of Vince McMahon's legacy. Like this is somebody that if, if there is a dollar to be made, he will go through hoops to get that dollar. And the, again, as I told you, the outside world does not penetrate this guy's orbit. It is whatever is written about him, whatever fingers are pointed at him, he is impervious to that criticism because he sees what his goal is, and that is his company and making it as profitable as possible. And the ends justify the means. Are you describing the president of the United States of America there? I thought maybe, okay. They're both Teflon.

There is a, yeah, sorry, wait, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, there's an extensive relationship there. And I think that both, you can see a lot of parallels between Vince McMahon and Donald Trump. And I don't think it's a coincidence that those two figures intersected within their lives. Show me the Venn diagram of Trump supporters

and diehard fans of the WWE. It's called Linda McMahon. That's, that's the crossover right there. I mean, that's, I mean, that's, it, there's probably a significant crossover and I mean, it's like, this is an industry that is one that as a viewer, as a fan that, I mean, in some ways, I understand fans that turn their brain off to those stories, that they enjoy this product, they enjoy watching wrestling, but they are not going to concern themselves with what goes on outside of those three hours

on Monday and two hours on Friday. Like, they will watch in a vacuum, they'll enjoy it in a vacuum, and the rest of all of this stuff, it's it's left for people like us to discuss and talk about but it's it's certainly uh an ethical debate you're going to have with yourself about uh the industry and things that are encouraged and things that are swept under the rug and just become part of wrestling's sordid history okay here so so thwarted history. Okay, here. So, Milan, we're at like 116 here. Okay. So, I'm going to read a statement

from the Chief Pumpkin Ear. Okay, the Chief Pumpkin... You don't often hear from the Chief Pumpkin Ear. This is a big deal. His name is James, by the way. You'd think the Chief Pumpkin Ear would have a more exotic name

or some kind of more interesting name. Like the Gobbly Gooker or something? Something. But James, believe it or not, which is the name of my firstborn. Shout out to James. Okay. Because of COVID-19 and the fact that Halloween may not

happen this year, I felt it was important, extremely important, that we put on an event so that kids and families have something to look forward to at this incredible time of year. Unfortunately, due to the drive-through format, tickets will be extremely limited. So once a time slot is sold, once it's sold out, it's gone. It's

gone. So this is just a heads up. I'm going to have more information later in the month about, you know, how you can get tickets and how you can save money because you're a listener of Toronto Mike and FOTM. Just a heads up that it's going to be a drive-through event this year. Pumpkins After Dark. Country Heritage Park in Milton. There's 88 acres there. 2.5 kilometers you drive. Over 150 jack-o'-lantern sculptures.

Milan, you've got a six-year-old? Five-year-old, yeah. Okay, well, I aged him there. I apologize. But you drive through. It's completely contactless. You even get your ticket scanned through the window. Okay, well, I aged him there. I apologize. But you drive through, it's completely contactless. You even get your ticket scanned through the window.

Completely contactless and safe. 7,000 pumpkins. I mentioned 150 jack-o'-lantern sculptures. It's bigger and better than ever. I mean, there's a 50-foot tunnel that you drive through. There's sculptures that are 60 feet wide, 20 feet tall. So I'll have more info, but just want to welcome back Pumpkins After Dark.

And I am truly honored that the chief pumpkin ear sent a statement over to the Trotter Mike podcast. You don't hear from him too often. So that's coming soon. Now, Milan, in the last 10 minutes or so, could we have a little fun?

Like, do you have any fun topics? Or is it all like... No, no. It's all heavy there. No, no no you're right let's move on to something fun um the um uh you've heard about the oprah book club right mike are you kidding me my ex-wife was in the occult of oprah oh wow okay well uh something on part netflix recommendations from john and Wei. They've given us some great

recommendations in the past. American Vandal, Riverdale, Terrace House. Oh, wait, Riverdale. Okay, yeah, that's the Archie one. Yeah. My teenage daughter told me I would hate it. Yeah. We've obviously seen The Last Dance and all those kind of things. John and Wei, I just want to pick your brains on

things you guys are watching on Netflix right now. Oh, God. You don't want to know my Netflix history. I'm pretty embarrassed by it. So my fiance and I, like we watch a combination of just really bad reality TV. But lately we've gotten into these obstacle course shows. And I briefly mentioned it on one of our recent shows. But I've been watching Ultimate Beastmaster. It's like america ninja warrior except it's more of an international thing uh and you've got these super athletes that are just like incredible going through these

incredible obstacle courses but i don't want to recommend that instead i want to recommend the floor is lava and it's a show that's that's also an obstacle course but like it's a room that's filled with orange tinted water and it's regular people you know not athletes some of them are i would say you know maybe weekenders but like these are just like normal people trying to go through this obstacle course with water submerged at the bottom that they call lava so the the goal is to jump from like for instance like a six foot jump from chair to chair soaking wet and making sure that you can get from one end to the other it it's it sounds like ridiculous and kind of pathetic but like they they accentuate the level of drama in these six-foot jumps so much

that it's incredibly captivating. So that's my recommendation. A terrible show called The Floor is Lava. We can all relate to that, right? Because we all played that game as a kid, right? Because I've noticed my kids all... I don't teach them that game. They just naturally play this game that The Floor is Lava, and they got cushions

and couch. It's almost like we're all innately wired to play that game as kids. Well, sounds like right up their alley. We can expect a Too Hot to Handle review soon. Oh, I don't think so.

Is John, remind me, is John the Saved by the Bell fan? Yeah, Dallas, 90210. Is there anyone

that wasn't a Saved by the Bell fan? Like our age bracket. It's coming back. I watched it. Are you kidding me? I watched every episode of that wasn't a Saved by the Bell fan? Like our age bracket? It's coming back. I watched it. Are you kidding me? I watched every episode of that show. Saved by the Bell is coming back? They're rebooting it? I had no idea. But a lot of shows came back and it turned out I had no interest in them coming back

even though I loved them the first run. This has happened many times. I didn't watch Roseanne's comeback. I didn't watch and I heard that was good. I think 90210 came back. I had no interest, even though I did watch. That fizzled, yeah. Yeah, I watched a lot of that the first time, too.

But please, well, let me hear from John. John, what are you watching these days? And it doesn't have to be, I know that, you know, Milan's a Netflix bigot there, I think. Netflix or Buzz. It could be anywhere. I happen to enjoy stuff on Crave TV and they do not sponsor this program,

but talk to me, John. Yeah, me and my wife just started watching that show Upload on Amazon Prime. And it's like a fun half hour science fiction-y comedy. I watched it. I watched it. It's okay. Yeah, it's not bad.

I'm not going to tell you to stop what you're doing and go watch Upload, but that's kind of what i'm into now i was going through a period where tsn was airing like all the 30 for 30 documentaries and i was watching quite a few of those they're the best yeah yeah yeah and they've just put them all up on their website i feel like we're giving a tsn a lot of that's okay we're uh independent here we don't you don't play favorites yeah but they they've thrown like every single 30 for 30 up on tsn's website because we don't get espn plus up here and i always thought that was like the greatest selling feature of espn plus was getting that whole library of documentaries similar to you i think the americans used to get i don't

know if they still do but they used to get all the 30 for 30s on on Netflix. Because when I first got Netflix, I remember being extremely disappointed that up here we didn't actually, you'd have to bother with a proxy server and all this dangerous nonsense. But from the Canadian IP address, you did not have access to the 30 for 30s. And I think most of them are tremendous. Yeah, like the two Escobars. That's a fantastic one. Or the 25th man. I was watching an Oscar Pistorius series on Prime last night,

and I was thinking about the 25th man with the 1995 World Cup of Rugby and how it brought South Africa together. I watched that one recently as well. Yeah, that's an excellent one. The one on June 17th, 1994. And it's, there's no interviews. It's just all footage from that day and all the different sports stories that intersected with the Bronco chase with OJ. What a day. And it's funny because I'm of an age and I guess you guys are catching up to me. I see you're not quite there yet, but you're, you're of an age too. You remember that day.

I vividly remember that day. My high school graduation. Is that right? Yeah. Wow. That's almost as exciting as when John was off to the wedding and he listened to the live from Opera House episode of Toronto Mic'd. Okay, any other recommendations?

I'm always interested in what people... My problem is uh back many years ago i watched the wire and then i watched it again and ever since i feel like shows aren't as good as they should be because they're not the wire and it sort of ruined me a little bit i need to see like a therapist or something about this i think but if you're a comic book fan at all if you've read this comic book i highly recommend the watchman the series um it is tremendously well done especially if you've read the i would say the source material is almost kind of you a prerequisite you know in order to really fully grasp it but but it it is so faithful to something that you know many people consider the greatest comic book of all time um

that uh it's just incredibly rewarding once you have a full puzzle so it's something i recommend well i recommend the watchman the band uh great friends of the program and the drummer was on our toronto mic on friday so the watchman the comic book is great and the watchman band and milan what are you watching these days? That's a good question. I love The Last Dance. Oh, yeah. I actually said the other day I wish there was a hundred episodes of The Last Dance. What, only ten?

Every Monday I watch my two hours of The Last Dance. It was a wonderful ritual during this terrible shutdown pandemic nonsense we're all kind of living through. A show that I am embarrassed to watch, I did watch with my wife uh stars the canadian uh never have i ever i think i'm beyond the uh the age demographic but it's from a young woman from mississauga who stars in this show oh i've seen this show my wife yes okay i've seen it she's very good in it too yes yeah

so uh yeah i just finished that and i had a lot of fun with that. And I know you're a big movie buff, Mike. Well, like anyone else, of course. Yeah, and it looks like they've just announced the sequel to Rush Hour 4. You know, I've never seen a Rush Hour. Really? Oh, okay. Can I, can I, I'm looking in my Zoom here. I see Wei and John.

I'm going to confess something real quick here before we wind down. I've never seen Top Gun. I've never seen Top Gun. Me neither. Whoa! And they're apparently making a sequel to Twins called Triplets with Schwarzenegger and DeVito. Well, I saw Twins, but I never saw...

But Milan, did you see Top Gun? No, I haven't. So none of us four have seen Top Gun. Okay, but how many of us went on the ride? Yes. I have been on the ride. I'm still waiting for the Ferris Bueller and Harold and Kumar sequels myself. Yes, me too, me too.

Who's the triplet? That's a good question. Oh, yeah, because you have the big, strong guy and you have the little funny-looking dude in Danny DeVito. What could be the third? Yeah, well, that's apparently going to production shortly. That's a great question.

Maybe it's the baby from Junior that becomes the triplet. Or John Travolta's comeback in Look Who's Talking. Right, as I recall. Can I do a quick sequence here, Mike, if it's okay with you? More like it's your show, Milan, of course. I'm going to embark

in a little bit of a gimmick infringement. John, I hope it's okay with you. It's something you do with ESPN's Harold Elwani every year called Likely or Unlikely. Okay. Do I get to participate? Absolutely. I throw out a scenario and is it likely or unlikely to occur?

For all of you guys. I'm going to be a little bit liberal with the time frame. We'll say 6 to 12 months, depending on the question here. So one, will the WWE perform in front of more than 10,000 paying fans at an arena in North America within the... So you can't say

6 to 12. You've got to be very specific with this. In 12 months? Okay, within 6 months. 6 months. Okay, that's different than 12 months. Okay. I'm going to say unlikely. Yeah, I'm going to say unlikely. If it was a year, I'd lean more towards likely, but not before the end of this year. Not at this rate. Okay, well, I'm... Because it's the W, I'd lean more towards likely, but not before the end of this year.

Not at this rate. Okay, well, because it's the W, I'm going to say it's likely. In fact, I think it'll happen next weekend. In Florida, Georgia, or Arizona, right? Or Texas. Right, and I'm sure Trump will be there too. Will WrestleMania 37 still be held at SoFi Stadium in LA next year or next April? I'll say likely.

Oh, God. If you had asked me three months ago, I for sure would have said likely. Again, like at this rate, oh, I'm going to say unlikely. Mike? Well, I feel I can't lose

by just like choosing the lowest denominator here i'm gonna say for sure that's likely yes bob mccowan returns to terrestrial radio or television within the next six months okay terrestrial you know i um i'm kind of i'm kind of interested in what he's doing with it with this new uh i don't know i'm not the biggest fan of the format he's kind of coming back with with the oh i hate i hate the format i don't like the format i liked what he did on friday with keith olbermann and john shannon that's what people want i don't want to hear bob mccallan taking listener questions right i i just want to hear bob do a lengthy interview right maybe on toronto mic'd anytime, if you're listening. Yeah.

I'm actually going to say unlikely on terrestrial radio or television. I think those industries have probably been decimated during this period that if Bob's going to come back, I think it's going to be

something more like a digital property. Okay. Next. Well, you can't go past. That's the only one in my wheelhouse You can't just I'm sorry Mike go ahead

It's been all wrestling until right now I agree 100% with John Terrestrial radio will not pay him money That'll make it worth his time And if he wants to come back He's gonna have to roll his own Just like post wrestling and Toronto Mike Which is why these two shows get along so well

There you go The all law gang Do we want Wade to chime in on the Yeah I'm sorry Wade go ahead Post Wrestling and Toronto Mic'd, which is why these two shows get along so well. There you go. The All Law Gang. Do we want Wade to chime in on the Bob McElroy? Yeah, I'm sorry, Wade. Go ahead. You know, I didn't even know he was off Terrestrial Radio, so I'm going to also say unlikely. I'm sorry, Wade. No, no problem.

The All Law Gang, including Jason Agnew, reunites on the air at Post Wrestling. Six months? Unlikely. Not even the Christmas special? Can I ask the obvious? And again, I love the John Way combo here. And I also go way back with Agnew. And all three of you are FOTMs.

But I need to know, before we close this out, I'm about to play the, the lowest and the low in a moment here. I need to know, is there a, what's wrong with this relationship? Like, are you guys getting along at all?

Like what's going on here? I'm not going to talk about like the stuff that went down just with myself and Agnew. I'll say that the last time we corresponded, I reached out to him and we, we left things I thought at a good enough place, not where, uh, I feel he, you know, it's just what we, we don't, we don't have conversations. We don't really talk. I spoke to him like a year or two ago and i left things okay that i reached out to him and we got a lot of things out but you know we're doing our separate things i i wish him well he was someone i worked with for a long time he's

still doing his his radio show and uh friends of mine work with him and i i do wish them success but it's not uh it's really not up to me i don't feel this is like yesterday when i had kim mitchell on and i asked him how pie dubois was doing i don't know if that'll mean anything to any of you guys but there was that moment of like i don't know and i got a sense of i'm sorry for bringing it up i didn't know no i need a little bit of uh no one wrestling some some real talk i thought it was more of a fun question no no no it's it's fine let's move on like i i'm not gonna use a radio show to talk about like a personal relationship of mine that you know he's a guy that was uh very helpful in my career and i'm not gonna i just don't think it's like we haven't addressed it on our shows it's, I don't think it's for, you know.

No, that's fair. To have these conversations in public. If he ever wants to talk privately, I'm more than open to that. CM Punk and Cole Cabana hug and make up. In six months, I'll say unlikely. The WWE is forced to shut down tapings of at least one episode of Raw or SmackDown before the end of the year due to COVID.

Unlikely. I'll also say unlikely. They'll find a way. One of MLB, NBA, and NHL fail to complete their season. Likely. I will go likely on that. One of them will run into problems. I'll say unlikely.

I'm going with likely. And Kanye West is the next president of the United States. Likely. Can't be any worse. Way's an anarchist, I think. Yeah, I'm going unlikely. I think he's getting into the race a little too late. Yeah, please, he won't be.

If you're not, as you know, in American politics, if you're not with one of the two major parties, you have zero chance of winning a federal election. So, no chance. Zero chance. Zero chance. And also, I'm not even convinced he's really going to run. I think this might be to sell some albums. That's what they said about the current president.

Well, not albums, but it was all about ratings. True. Milan, before I hit the lowest of the low, I just want to tell you, you did a fantastic job. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Way and John were great. Well, Way and John are great guests.

Absolutely. But honestly, you were smooth, great voice. You're making me blush, Mike. You were interesting. Honestly, I am going to buy several watches and throw the batteries in the garbage and I will see you in Richmond Hill my brother and John and Wade thanks so much for being on the show

today really this was a lot of fun as always sorry to be so heavy next time I promise we'll be live this is the home of real talk Milan we'll be later next time and that's to me at least as a non-wrestling guy it's far more interesting to hear this chat

than to hear will this actor beat this actor in the scripted but the one thing I can say for John and Wade they'll have no shortage of worst of topics to discuss on their show at the end of the year oh yeah that'll be true this year for sure and that that brings us at the end of the year. Oh yeah, that'll be true this year for sure.

And that, that brings us to the end of our 680th show. So you can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Milan, remind us the Fast Time. At FastTime WJR and at FastTimeWatchYourPair.com And John, how do we follow you on Twitter?

I am John Pollock. Just go to PostWrestling.com. John, how do we follow you on Twitter? Uh, I am John Pollock. Just go to post wrestling.com. That's where you can find all of our stuff. Post wrestling.com. I root for you guys. Uh, love how you're rolling your own and you're kicking ass. And I just root for the Indies.

And that's amazing. Wait, uh, what's your handle on Twitter? I'm at way. Zero nine, three, seven.

You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff. How come John is verified and Wei is not? It's a question for the Twitter gods, isn't it? If only I knew the director of communications at Twitter Canada. I'm perfectly fine not being verified. Me too.

It's such a different world being verified than not being verified. I can't tell you just the vast difference my life has become with a checkmark. I don't want the checkmark. I think it's more punk to not have the checkmark. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at

Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. Pumpkins After Dark are at Pumpkins After Dark. And Garbage Day are at Garbage day.com slash Toronto. Mike, see you all next week.

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