Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - John Wing: Toronto Mike'd #827

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

Mike chats with John Wing about fellow Sarnians, the Toronto stand-up scene in the early-to-mid 80s, sharing a stage with Ralph Benmergui, Mike MacDonald, and Jim Carrey, his move to LA, appearing on The Tonight Show and America's Got Talent, and our mutual love of The Tragically Hip.

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I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is John Wing. Is it still junior? Uh, technically? No, but

I believe when senior dies, you don't have to do it anymore. And on stage, it hasn't been for a long time. So I'll call you John Wing. Welcome to Toronto Mic'd. Now, John, firstly, thanks for doing this, buddy. My pleasure. This is a first because this is the first time somebody made their toronto mic debut via

zoom uh and that person has actually recorded in my uh basement studio because you've actually been here i have and all my for those who haven't let me let me oh the wide expanse i've been to wineries that had smaller basements in France. I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, an incredible basement, so many rooms in Toronto, Mike's basement.

There are many rooms. Did you hit your head on my low ceiling? I can't recall exactly. It was close. Only twice coming in and leaving again. So that's right. That's right. That's right. Let me explain to the listenership, as Scruff Connors would say,

let me explain that you were here because you were a guest on my rabbi's podcast, Ralph Ben-Murgy's Not That Kind of Rabbi. Correct. And I actually will say this will be a little different than that. Ralph focuses a lot more on the spiritual side. And like myself, you were like a lapsed Catholic, but you kind of got back on the wagon again where I kind of didn't. But where are you now, just for the record?

And I don't want to go on Ralph's turf too much here, but are you practicing Catholic or lapsed right now? Not a Catholic. Is that new? I feel like when you were here, you were a Catholic. No. No. I'm a believer.

I do not support any or follow any particular I'm not affiliated with any religion. So you're spiritual, you're just not religious. I'm a registered religious independent. All right, just want to get that, you know, that's important. I want to get the record set there.

Yeah, yeah. So let me, I'll just let people know that if they want a really cool, you know, spiritual discussion with my guest here, the rabbi, my rabbi, but not that kind of rabbi. Not that kind of rabbi. He does it best. Go dig up that early episode of Not That Kind of Rabbi and enjoy. And it sounds great because you're both actually on the good mics here. I kind of miss those good old days.

Yes, it was excellent to be on the good mics. I hate it when we go over to someone's house and they bring out the crappy mics that's my oh oh like like fine hey i got a trivia question or a quiz question for you off the top you ready i love it let's go what do these people have in common i'll name like five people. Actress Susan Clark. Astronaut, don't interrupt. Let me finish it first before you guess. Astronaut Chris Hadfield.

Golfer Mike Weir. Mike Weir, yes. Maple Leaf great Tim Bernhardt. Tim Bernhardt, goaltender, yes. Yeah, remember him very well. Let's go with Scotty from Star Trek. What do all these people have games doing well they all have in common that uh just as dave madden who played

reuben kincaid on the partridge family he also has that in common and myself right we're all born and raised in Sarnia, Ontario. And that's on the beautiful Lake Huron, right? I camp at Pinery. Oh, sure. So I feel like I know I never go that far. Like I can see it on the map, but there's a grand bend and I go a little further and I'm at my camping site. And if I kept going, I'd hit Sarnia.

You would. Absolutely. Yep. Oh, do you know this? Chris Hadfield and I were born on the same day. I had no idea. Same day, same year, two different hospitals in Sarnia. How many hospitals are there in Sarnia?

Do you know? Well, I, in the year, uh, uh, Chris and I were born, there were two.

I believe there's only one now. Maybe you were switched at birth, but if it's different hospitals, that's unlikely. So I don't think we were switched at birth. So Sarnia, awesome. Now,

uh, so many places I want to go with you, but, uh, I know you're a hockey guy because we mentioned Tim Bernhardt who that was like I want to say that's post like Mike Paul Mateer's second stint and just before the reggae bester platoon kicks in that's correct and Rick St. Croix maybe Rick St. Croix was in the mix maybe at that time. My brother and I went to a game at the Gardens with Montreal,

and Timmy beat them 2-1 in overtime. He stopped Mats Naslund on a breakaway to preserve the victory, and Rick Vive got both Toronto goals on the exact same kind of play, his kind of play, right? Where he would take a pass with a step on his defenseman and take the shot from the top of the facing and at the right-hand circle. And both goals were that kind of play. You know, I had the pleasure very recently recently i think it was about a month ago i had rick vive on this program and really i had

him on i wanted to talk to a guy you know i grew up loving on the on the leafs but really i love ballard stories like i collect them i don't know too many of those but a guy you did so i i don't know too many of those. But a guy you did. So I don't know. How old are you or is that a secret? I don't want to violate your privacy. How old am I? Well, I remember Tim Horton. Okay. How old am I?

I was alive when the Leafs won the cup last. I'm 61. 61. And you're in California as we chat right now? I am. Well, I have been low these past 55 weeks. So it's fair to say you've got your vaccination. I have my first one.

My second one is in 19 days. Okay, good for you. Oh, by the by the way today here's a trivia question yeah what is what is today march 31st yes which makes it which makes it hello which makes it uh the the eve of april. Gordie Howe's 93rd birthday. Oh, man. Okay, so here's why I wanted to ask your age, really. It's not because I wasn't trying to pry. I was actually wondering if you had any memories, and now I know you will have memories,

but of Brian McFarlane on Hockey Night in Canada. Oh, sure. My friend Jim McAleys used to have a line brian mcfarland on the the leafs are losing three to two to the canadians but they could tie it up here with a goal that's good analysis yes yes i i i read that you had interviewed brian recently yeah so i talked to him yesterday and uh so you have to follow the great brian mcfarland here and the dude i just want to give him some some props here because he's 89 years he turns 90 in august and sharp as a tack and he's got he's got the ballard

stories and he's got the gordie howe stories like hes i retain from youth gordy how and henry aaron wow and uh gordy how's autograph was uh he saw a color glossy all-star photo, 68 all-star game. And Neil Armstrong got it for me. Do you know who he was? First man on the moon. No, no. Hall of Fame linesman. Yes.

And he's from Sarnia. Yes. Also, he died a few months ago, also around 90, and his son is the GM of the St. Louis Blues, I believe. Oh, wow. Doug Armstrong. Okay. I grew up playing golf with Doug. Neil was the golf pro at the golf course in Sarnia for a long time.

Well, I spent some time yesterday on the Wikipedia page for famous people from Sarnia. Oh, you poor thing. Well, I had to come up with that trivia question. And the one I just want to, I want to put a spotlight on Susan Clark because she's probably best known for being the mom or the wife on Webster. This is her claim thing.

But for guys my age, she's known for being in Porky's. Yes, but even before that, she did late 60s into the early 70s. She did a lot of, shall we say, risque films. Right. That showed some things, you know. I think she did Playboy.

I'm pretty sure she did playboy i believe she did actually yes sorry girl oh yeah lovely she's still with us so uh she was married to alex karras for many years yes and he recently passed away and of course he played the uh the husband slash uh father in webster so right and a hell of a football player right right and a hell of an football player. Right, right. And a hell of an actor, man, that Webster. You know, I grew up digging different strokes of Gary Coleman, and then it's like they cloned it.

You know, Mike, you're just embarrassing yourself now. Okay. Please elaborate. I'm not here to tell you the shows i dug when i was a kid because they might not hold up and and the ones you just mentioned no all right let me uh let me give a shout out to uh fotm gear joyce and gear heard oh yeah you were coming on he says he did a show with you at the the rivoli uh right before covid struck uh yeah a couple months yeah and he says you're a well he he tipped me off you're a big hockey fan and that you want to adopt

uh mitch marner well i don't know i don't know if i want to adopt him although i'd be set for life that's right um i just he brought me back to hockey. I hadn't been watching it too seriously for a number of years. And then they drafted Mitch and they drafted Austin. And I decided I would buy the package that first year. Right. Watch them online. And Mitch is my guy. right watch them online and mitch mitch is my guy not to not to say that matthews doesn't have skills that just bug your eyes out he does uh but marner has a an ice vision

an idea of where space is going to be a second and a half from now. There's no space where he's headed, but there's going to be space there. And that, and although he's in a bit of a, they're in a bit of a funk, the whole they've been passes have been hitting sticks and nicking skates and, and, and not being dead on right for about 10 games now. But when they're on, Marner is, oh, he blows my mind how good he is. Yeah, I think I read yesterday that Austin Matthews leads the league in posts, if that's a stat they now keep.

So he's got, and as you'd probably agree with me, but the greatest pure goal scorer in the game today post Alex Ovechkin, I believe is Austin Matthews. I believe he's the best goal scorer playing today. A little biased here, but it's possible. I'm not sure either one of them

are as good as McDavid. No, he's the best player today. He might be the best skater I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them. But Marner reminds me of Makeda a lot. And it's the vision. It's what he sees. There are a lot of plays in hockey where when the puck hits your stick,

in the second, in the split second it hits your stick there's a pass available right and uh you have it's like uh a great english footballer said you have to know what you're going to do with the ball before it comes to you right and Marner knows Marner makes that pass very few guys do I'll tell you somebody who never does knee lander but anyway but we won't go there um but when when the puck hits your stick there's a there's a guy open somewhere and Marner knows where that guy is, and he makes that pass 90% of the time, or he tries that pass. I mean, look at just – I get into a lot of arguments with people about this with hockey, but look at Tavares, the year he played with Marner, and this year. How many goals?

Tavares, the year he played with Marner, and this year. How many goals? I believe it was 47 because he was constantly being set up with perfect passes. So true. So anyway. Anyway. No, great analysis there. Way better than Brian McFarlane's. Now, let's go back.

I was going to say, let's go back. I think we've already been back there with Tim Bernhardt and Ken Reggett and Alan Bester and all these guys, but let's go back to 1980. I mean, I mentioned off the top, I mentioned our mutual friend, Ralph Ben-Murgy. And Ralph, of course, some don't realize this, but Ralph was sort of the

Yuck Yucks guy, stand-up, before he became the midday guy and the CBC guy guy like oh god he was a couple of guys even before that okay i feel i would do it i would do an hour on uh on my boy ben murgy to be honest but like can you take me back to those early stand-up days in the 1980s and just like because i've had i've had breslin on the show. Of course, Ben Murgy has been on many times, uh, a fellow client. So a TMDS client along with Ben Murgy is a humble Howard Glassman who, so like anything you can share about this scene, uh, in the,

in the early eighties and mid eighties. Well, um, the first time I, uh, The first time I went, one night. I got to town. I was living with a couple of college friends out on Coxwell and Girard, give or take. A lovely neighborhood 40 years ago. Oh, my. Was it nice?

And the first night I was there, everyone else at the house was doing something and i'd heard about this comedy club so i went down to see a show and i paid seven dollars i think i believe thursday and the uh uh it would have been May, I guess, of May or early June of 1980. So Lawrence Morgenstern was headlining. And I saw Ralph. I saw Ralph do a set. I saw Mike McDonald do a set. I saw Larry Horowitz do a set that night. And there might have been a couple of other guys.

And then Lawrence came on and was doing okay. He was very young, probably not much older than me. Maybe not even older than me. I was 20. Um, and then he did a joke. Uh, well, no, he, he did, um, no, he wasn't getting anything going. He would get a laugh, but it would stop, and there was no roll happening.

And he finally did a joke that got a big, big laugh, and it was a dirty joke. I don't know what my restrictions are here on Toronto. Anything goes here. Go crazy. Oh, well, I don't want to go too great anyway he did a joke about uh uh spock finally getting angry enough to dig at dr mccoy on star trek and spock says something very calmly um and then he he opens his jacket and masturbates a penis

that's under his arm and says, you know, suck my Vulcan, etc. And the audience goes crazy. Big laugh, his first big laugh. And he gets angry and he goes off on the audience and this was my very first time at a comedy club right he goes off on the audience he's oh i see you don't like the

well-written material you like the material and okay and so that, they wouldn't laugh at all. Because the only time they laughed, he insulted them for laughing. Right. So he spent the rest of the show going slowly out of his mind. And when it was over and they finally got him to get off stage, as Lawrence had reams of material, he got off stage and the old Yuck Yucks at Bay and Yorkville down in the basement, the bottom floor below the street,

there was a, the audience came out one door and there was walk-around sort of side back door. Lawrence came out of that door and yelled at them as they left. What is wrong with you people? And so I came down a couple of nights later to sign up for an amateur night. nights later to to sign up for an amateur night and i have i got into the green room and ralph was lying down on this couch as though he had some sort of a headache you know covering his face and lawrence was there were other people there but lawrence and ralph were talking and lawrence was saying i didn't think it was that bad I didn't think it was that bad I mean they were a dumb audience

and Ralph very resignedly said uh face it Lawrence it was the low point of your career and that was my first introduction to the fellas. But what were you doing in Toronto? Because you're a Sarnia guy. Like what brought you to the. Well, I had gone to college, gone to university, University of Windsor. For two years, I had majored in first in communication arts. And then I second year, I switched over to English.

English. And I, um, um, at the end of the second year, I got an offer from some friends in Toronto who I had known in college who were out of university. Um, I, I, I find those two words interchangeable. I apologize to your audience anyway um two uh friends one of whom later became a uh a well and still is a reasonably well-known screenwriter out here um but uh they had a band and they were doing a band in toronto and they needed they needed a drummer and uh they asked me to come. And I said to my father, I was working cleaning boats. Oh, and for those who enjoy manual labor, may I recommend boat cleaning.

I was cleaning boats. And I said to my father, I got this offer to go and live in this house and et cetera, et cetera. And I didn't think I was learning much about the real world and university. I had a sister who left home at 17 and a brother who essentially went off to scholarship private school at 14. And I felt as though I needed to get out and do something in the world because I was sort of marking time and my father said yeah fine if if it doesn't work out I'll pay

for your third year of college and that wasn't a good offer and he gave me 300 bucks I I think. And I went to Toronto. Wow. And, uh, the band folded the day I arrived and then we reformed and, but I got into comedy so fast that, uh, that it began to take time away from the band. So by the end of that first summer of 80 uh they had they had asked me to leave and i said yeah fine i'd left the band and they were they were they'd hired some kind of a ringo clone to do their band their drumming and that was fine with me i didn't i once i found comedy i'd been i'd been jonesing around uh playing guitar and coffee houses at university and i'd done some acting at university in the theater program and all that other stuff and i'd been looking for some sort of stage outlet and once comedy oh and the other thing was

the hook the real hook was and i've told this story on a number of occasions. I went the first night, June 30th, 1980, 41 years ago, this June 30th, Monday night, and I killed. I had eight minutes. I went 15th out of 18 guys. Simon Rakoff introduced me, and I murdered. Everything got laughs. Everything hit bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I went back a week later with some fanfare, meaning if I'd done the same business, the same reaction, I probably would have been moved up right away,

which had happened to a couple of guys, Jim McAleese and a couple other guys. And I did the same set in a prime spot, like seventh or something, and bit it. Just completely got nothing from beginning to end. And that set the hook in me as deep as it goes wow um that the second set was the absolute reason i became a comedian like is it some kind of pursuit of that initial high like were you just chasing the dragon well i don't know what i mean yeah pursuit of the initial high what what did i do that night that i didn't do tonight what do i need to know because it's it's the equivalent of the first time you gamble so even in maybe not even just play poker with people, but maybe in a casino,

you always win the first time because you have no concept of what you're doing, literally. Not one idea of who you are, what you represent, how they see you, any of that. And I wanted to find all that out and the longer i did it i mean the hardest part about this last year has been not doing it although you do it on zoom and i'm here to tell you yeah if i never have to do another zoom comedy show it'll be too soon and you were doing a lot of like cruise ships right like i remember this from the ralph visit and they're all like they're all kaput right for a long time i've worked cruise ships hope to be working them again i've informed informed my agents that I am available to work as of April the 20th.

So we'll see. But I like a live audience. I've always liked the live audience. Now, before I get you to LA, I got a few more of these local questions. But one is, you mentioned the name Mike McDonald. And whenever I have a stand-up on from this period, I need them to tell me about the greatness of Mike because so many comics, be it Breslin or Ben

Mergey, said he was, even Glassman, the best comic they ever saw. Tell me about Mike McDonald, the late great. Okay. What Mike could do, Mike had a style of comedy

that was different from almost everybody's. And this is in the beginning when he was young. He was tall and spare and he had a crew cut. And so he was kind of square headed, tall and sort of stiff arm, stiff leg guy. sort of stiff arm, stiff leg guy. And most of us, we set up a joke and then we do the punchline. Mike's setup was he would tell you the joke and his punchline was he would perform the joke physically.

And that's extraordinarily difficult to do over an hour. It's hard to put routines together when you're doing that. I mean, he could also do straight type of standup. He could do set up punchline. But what in the beginning, what made him different was he could do things physically that if you ever heard about somebody, Arthur Miller talked about Lee J. Cobb playing Willie Loman. When he got Willie, when Arthur Miller saw him get the guy, he said the actor could look out a window and you could describe the window. And they were on a bare stage rehearsing. He could look out a window and you could describe the window.

And that's what Mike could do. window and that's what Mike could do he could he could he could go to the bank and put you in the bank behind him in line or watching him from wherever Mike had this other thing at the end of a show a couple of times this happened to me at the end of a show you would mike would say good night and you would suddenly look around go oh oh oh i'm in a comedy club okay that's where i am right because i was with mike wow the last hour now the saddest thing is it didn't translate to tv the the TV screen wasn't big enough. It was both. It was weird. There was an intimacy and a largeness with Mike.

You had both things happening. But the TV screen couldn't get those two things together. They kept clanging against each other when he worked on television uh but it was remarkable to watch and he would you know he had these guys these three or four guys and he would get them high they would go to his place and they would riff jokes night after night after night after night and the um uh he would he would do a new hour every four months and uh sometime and then a lot of the time there would be one-off hours like uh he did one where he had a he had he loved boom boxes and he always had a boom box with him.

And he put one on stage and did a show where he talked to the boom box and it talked back in his voice. When he was his dad, he could do his dad. And man, did you know that you knew his father? You knew that guy. You know, he was not a, any kind of a two-dimensional or one-dimensional guy he was a three-dimensional guy everybody mike did was three-dimensional just a blaze and then the other weird thing is as he got older and he had much many physical limitations. But his comedy was so sharp. His ideas were so interesting.

It became very cerebral in the last part of his life. And it was there. I mean, the last time I saw him, I went to Ottawa to do a weekend at the Yuck Yucks there. And Thursday night, I walked into the club and he was there. And he was only there to see my show. And so it wasn't a fall on a Thursday. It was a good crowd. But I played the whole show to

Mike at the bar I knew where he was and after the show we went out and we talked about what I was doing and how do you make this better how do you make that better and it was a thrill to see him when you walked into the room you thought

as you as you walked over that night you thought I wonder if this weekend and he was there already you know um and he like same as me he never lost his fascination with the craft um and he and he he was improved he was always improving let's let's improve that was the whole thing so yeah i. I love listening to you comics talk about Mike McDonald. And then I always wonder, okay, because we're going to talk shortly about your six Tonight Show appearances. And you said it very eloquently there, but it just didn't translate for Mike.

Did you ever wonder, when you're meeting Johnny Carson, do you ever think this should be Mike McDonald? Like, is there any, like... You know, we had a very strange rivalry in that way we were we were friends for a very long time uh one night if i can tell you a quick one sure he didn't he didn't notice you unless he knew you and one night he came into the restaurant at Yuck Yucks, and I was there every night for the first two or three years. I think I missed 10 nights.

He came into the restaurant, and he had a joke that he'd written or an idea, whatever it was, and there was nobody there but me. So he had to come over and talk to me, and he'd never talked to me. We knew who each other were, but he didn't acknowledge that because he had his friends and I was not one of them. So, okay. So he comes over and he says, hey, did you hear? It was like 82, maybe, early 82. Hey, John, did you hear?

maybe early 82 hey john did you hear uh they let mark david chapman out of prison and he immediately attacked ringo star and i said no that's wrong and i don't know what possessed me to tell him that the joke was wrong but i said that's wrong he immediately attacked the Lennon sisters. And he saw me for the first time. That's when he saw me. Wow. And many, many, many years later, 150 years later, I opened for the Lennon sisters and I called him afterward. Hey, Mike, I opened for the Lennon sisters. Mark David Chapman was in the front row.

But yeah, so where was I? What was the question? I lost my train of thought. Well, thank you for those words about Mike. Now I'm going to ask you about somebody on the other end of the spectrum, somebody who did translate well to the screen. But you were talking about the Tonight Show. That's the thing. Well, I'm going to ask you about somebody on the other end of the spectrum, somebody who did translate well to the screen. But you were talking about the Tonight Show.

That's the thing. Well, I'm going to get to tonight. Okay. Yeah, okay. But the thing about that was he wanted it. We all wanted it, right? And everybody thought, okay, so-and-so will have a better chance. But Mike never saw me as a Tonight Show rival, right?

He never saw that I might have a chance to do it too. And he certainly never saw that I might do it before him. Never. So he knew he was out in L.A. soon after I was for a while. And he knew that I was in with the guy as he was the, the, the guy who booked the tonight show. Well, I was in with him and so was Mike. So I ran into him somewhere. Uh, I was with my wife and Mike's Mike was all Mike loved to tell you what he was doing. Here's what I'm doing. And he said, uh, I got to tonight show and I said, oh, that's great. And he said,

doing and he said uh i got to tonight show and i said oh that's great and he said um no i got it it's it's we're just waiting for the date it's all set blah blah blah and i had to be nice about it and we left and my wife said what's the matter and i said i said he doesn't get to do this and actually he gets everything he doesn't get to do this i get to he gets everything. He doesn't get to do this. I get to do this. And I don't know if he was telling me the truth or not. It's possible. He was, he was assured he would have, he got it,

but he never did. He never did it. It's also possible that he just wanted to play with my head. Cause he loved doing that. Right. And either one is fine. I don't care. It didn't bother me that he did it.

It bothered me. It made me want to, come on, you got to get this sort of thing. The competitive fighters were lit. On the other end of the spectrum, though, sorry, when I had Mark Breslin on, I wanted, of course, I had to ask him about Jim Carrey. Like, did you see what happened next coming? And Breslin told me he didn't think Jim Carrey was very good. Like, he was completely wrong about this guy. And I'm wondering, what did you think when you saw Jim Carrey at like a yuck yuck stage?

I thought he was going to be a big star. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that. I mean, in those days, you could be an impressionist and be a big star and people don't even remember how good an impressionist

he was and he was so good he had a manager whose ex-husband was a brilliant comedy writer his manager when he was in Toronto was named Leitris Spivak, Shout out to Leitris.

And her late great ex-husband was Paul Willis. Paul K. Willis. And she used to have Paul write bits for Jim because Jim in those days wasn't, I mean, I think Mark was looking at was how funny he was he had all this charisma and all this presence and he was a great impressionist and once paul started writing some of the bits very very impressively funny and you know jim hit there were it's amazing how many amazing,

how many incredible performers came through yuck yucks in the eighties. It was really impressive. A couple of the guys I mentioned that are our buddies. I just want to know what was Ben Mergey funny. Like I just need to know, was he a funny standup? No. Well, that explains because he does uh he does abandon the craft pretty as quickly as he can no no he wasn't funny no he thought he was funny he wasn't funny yes of course

he was funny oh i know funny all right let's see i'm. I've never seen Ben Mergey. You want a Ben Mergey bit? You want a Ben Mergey bit? I'm the guy. Yes, please. I'm the repository. Give me some Ben Mergey. All right. Television is brought to you by people who want you to believe that nobody screwed on Gilligan's Island. I mean, come on.

Ginger, Marianne. Right. Mrs. Howell. Okay, not Mrs. Howell. If I i get that horny i'll swim to shore um that's good ralph used to do uh i i'm an act he was an actor ralph was an actor he did plays he did he was in ralph was in ticket to heaven uh you ever heard of ticket to heaven no it's not ringing a bell nick mancuso saw rubinick uh a cult movie from 81 i believe okay anyway ralph and i also dated the same girl oh wow our halcyon days although he dated her before i even

met her i dated her after. Anyway. Not at the same time. Ralph had a bit about auditioning for a commercial. And Ralph had an enormously expressive face. So he had this very serious set face. But he could do things with it. He was very expressive on stage. He would say, all right, Ralph.

He would do the director. Okay, Ralph, I love you. You're beautiful. Let's see a take. Come on. I want to see it. See the enthusiasm. And Ralph says, wow, these shreddies really taste great.

Cut, cut. Not enough enthusiasm, Ralph. I want to see it. Come on. Give me something., not enough enthusiasm, Ralph. I want to see it. Come on, give me something. And then Ralph, Ralph, he goes,

wow, these shreddies really taste great. Um, he also did characters. He did, uh, he did a girl, uh,

he, he did a, he would put a wig on and do a girl. He went to high school with, I don't remember her name. Well, one of the jokes was he could, he could do that because his father gave him a Camaro for passing theater

arts. That was one of the jokes. Yeah. Ralph was very funny. I take his word for it. Now, at least I have some collaboration here because I don't, I've never seen him do standup, but the other guy I worked very closely with.

And of course, I think you crossed paths with him several times over the years, but was humble Howard Glassman funny? No. It's just the same bit. Was humble Howard funny. Real real talk i don't remember okay he probably was he's an interesting guy and a smart guy we crossed paths but not in that period not a lot in that particular period right okay so i don't i don't remember how funny he was.

Okay. That's, that's fair. Sorry, Howard. I love you, man. Nice three,

buddy. That was a great three. That's great. Now, uh, LA. So we talked about, uh,

tonight show and we should point out that first tonight show appearance. That's, that's the Johnny Carson tonight show. That's not the Jay Leno. So yes, but the first appearance jay leno was guest hosting oh is that right oh i was gonna ask you about okay that there goes my next 18 questions i was gonna second appearance johnny okay good what like what can you share uh that was always i always looked at that as like that was the equivalent of like

going viral back then was getting to be. If you're a stand up, you got to go on Carson's Tonight Show. Can you share with me any details you can about that amazing accomplishment there? Well, let's see. Burt Reynolds was on that night. Nice. Johnny gave me the OK sign when I was done. He gave me the okay sign when I was done. He gave me the okay sign.

And that means you get to talk to him? No. He gives you the wave over if you get to talk to him. No, I never. Not only did I not talk to him, we never met. We never made eye contact. Interesting. we never made eye contact.

Interesting. When I walked off, I turned to look at the desk where he was sitting and he'd already given me the okay sign, which I saw on television later. And when I turned to look at him, he wasn't looking at me and we passed out of each other's lives in that moment. But we, we hung around the dressing room a couple of extra minutes so we could meet Burt Reynolds as he left.

Right. And that was pretty cool. Sure. As I recall. I mean, that was a big fucking star. Like, we don't, you know, us who only know him as like, I don't know, from Evening Shade or something, can't appreciate the run he had in the 70s. Like, this was the biggest star on the planet.

Yeah. And he was nice to me, too. He was very, very pleasant when we chatted, and it was lovely. But the first one is the key, because everything comes from the first one is the key because everything comes from the first one. And essentially, I'd been 10 years on the job, 10 years and a couple of months. And so I've been studying for 10 years.

The exam was five minutes long. Right. And my entire career was five minutes long. Right. And my entire career was on the line. Wow. So that's the big. So you have to sort of zombify yourself and do it in a almost outer. You're not quite there. Afterward, I couldn't remember the first one i couldn't remember and this is 1990 this first one yep 1990 yeah when you would visualize it

john like when you would visualize this moment and uh they do you visualize johnny waving you to come like like this is the famous thing i hear is that if he waves the car over to talk no partly because i did the first one with jay and one of the things that one of the hallmarks of my career has been i never got anything when i thought i was ready i always got it long, long after. So I could handle it because the meaning was not as, what's the word, sharp. I mean, I went to LA in 88 and in May of May or June of 88 I auditioned for this guy who wanted to manage me and he got me in a second audition was for Macaulay who loved me Macaulay Jim Macaulay booked to come in tonight's show he loved me and he said you're gonna do it that's great you're gonna do it and my so we're sitting there my wife my then girlfriend but my my wife and me and the two managers from the management company

at this the power table at the old improv and they're saying you're gonna do the tonight show you're gonna get a movie do you're gonna get a a sit guy but a bump but a bump right and none of that happened of course and from that first night it was two and a half years before i did it um there was after starting then they began to throw up obstacles and i kept going over each obstacle and and finally they there was one that took a year and it was just very, there were a lot of hoops for that one. So by the time I did it, yes, it meant a lot,

but it didn't mean what it would have meant initially. And that's probably right. Your timing is always, although in other areas, my timing just sucks. I mean, remember the film, The Aristocrats? Of course. Yeah. Okay.

So I was known among comedians as somebody who had a version of that joke. And it got around to Provenza and Penn Jillette that I did. So they called me and scheduled an interview with me. And the day before the interview, they called me to say, we got a chance to interview Robin Williams. So we're going to fly up to San Francisco tomorrow and do that. We'll reschedule you. And they never did.

So I was not in that movie. And that's a more typical tale of my career than the Tonight Show is. I eventually did get to Tonight Show. But most things, Hollywood is this place where everybody tells you, you're going to do all this and that, and this and that, and this and that. And you never do any of those things. Or as I've said before, uh, when the plane ticket comes, when I'm on the plane, when I get to the hotel, then I'll believe it. That's fine. You know?, John, do you think you're kind of in that space between the, I'm thinking like,

Ray Romano gets a big sitcom or George fucking Lopez got a sitcom. Okay, we all, you know. Sure, lots of guys did. Yeah, well, and of course, Seinfeld's kind of the big example of a guy. John Caponera got a sitcom. John Mendoza got a sitcom.

All deserved. Okay, but there's that which obviously didn't happen for you but you you've been steadily i think correct me if i'm wrong right but i mean i'm a guy who listens to a lot of cbc radio for example i'm always hearing john wing on cbc radio like and he's always fucking funny by the way he is you i don't know why i'm referring to him like he's another guy he is me totally so unbelievably like you're steadily working you've been on tonight's show six times uh the imdb credits are lengthy uh but you never had that big uh monster no never i got little bits of heat over the years i was famous for six months after america Got Talent. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes, right. Sorry.

A little bit to hate. But in the beginning, it was difficult because I wasn't a trained actor, although I did take acting lessons. But I'm very niche in a weird way. I never found anything that I was as good at as stand-up. I never did. I'm a decent writer, but stand-up is the only thing I've ever done where if you put pressure on me, I get better.

The only thing in my whole life. Everything else you put pressure on me me i fold up like a cheap suit um and so and all and in my early days i had this voice uh which some it's been occurring to me lately this voice should be doing work but uh i had this voice but it didn't go with my head didn't go with my face it goes way better with my head and face now but i i would do voiceover auditions and the guy would say do it again and try to sound more blonde um and i i had a real problem with stupid things. You know, I can't, if someone says something really stupid to me, it's really hard to keep how stupid it is off my face. Right.

So that was a problem. You could be like a Rodney Dangerfield. Like, you know. Well, he made it big. Yeah, yeah. But late bloomer though lay bloomer oh but i know see this here's the other thing about it no okay i i made it yeah yeah you know you made it i just didn't make it big right i'm i've made a living at stand-up comedy and i continue to, even though I'm not working a lot for 41 years.

Well, I've actually made a living for about 38 and a half years, but I made it. I, you know, I raised kids. They're gone. I've got, I've got, you know, I've got a marriage, a house, the whole number. Right. you know, I've got a marriage, a house, the whole number. Right. Even the small retirement account that the bank is currently, currently screwing me over on.

But making it is a relative thing, you know? Yes, I didn't get the Ray Romano sitcom and I didn't get Letterman, all that stuff. But I did a lot of things and and i i still could do things right it's not over no can i can i mention my podcast oh my god yes please uh the bad piano player podcast on uh podtail and buzzsprout and Spotify and Apple Music and Greenpoint and Indianapolis and whatever. Wherever you find your podcast.

Wherever fine podcasts are sold. There are 48 episodes. We taped part of one today. So our year anniversary episode is in two weeks so so this is like a pandemic project that you've uh it is it is like i decided i wanted to be and i would have gone insane without it so anyway i'm very good at getting obsessed with things what's the structure like do you chat with someone else or is it you pontificate? Nobody. I have a sound recordist who changes each week and

sometimes I chat with her. But it's an exploration of piano music, of popular music, American popular music of 1900 to 1960 give or take right i play i sing i play i'm the bad piano player i started off as the mediocre singer now i'm the just okay singer and we we we feature a composer or a lyricist, or sometimes we do theme shows. Like I just did the one that came out on Tuesday was weather songs, songs about the weather. I like this.

We recently did forgotten musicals where I do two songs from three different musicals that nobody really remembers from the 50s and 60s right so it's like that that's what I do no I love it and just say the name of the podcast one more time here for the bad piano player podcast the bad piano player contest uh podcast what did I say contest podcast now, I've always enjoyed your comedy. Like, I think it's sharp. It's smart. Thank you. I think you're funny.

And then when I found out, you know, Ralph was your buddy, and then Ralph invited you over to my home, I'm like, this is cool. I get to listen to Ralph chatting with John Wing. I thought it was very cool. And it only took, like, 18 months for me to get you to zoom in. Again, absolutely, when I was talking about the Ray Romanos and George Lopez's

and Jerry Seinfeld's, I did not at all intend to suggest that you somehow didn't make it and you somehow failed. I didn't think you suggested that. A lot of people don't understand that your goal, no, no, no. I didn't think you suggested that. But a lot of people don't understand that your goal, yes, your ultimate goal is to make it large in this type of job. And yes, I came wanted to make a living at comedy. And I did. So, you know, check, right?

Ambition checked off. And I'm still challenged by it, and I'm still excited to do work when work comes up. And earlier you mentioned that stand-up is what you do best, and you mentioned that you write. And I know that yesterday when I talked to Brian McFarlane, I found out he's written 100 books. By the way, his dad wrote the Hardy Boys books.

His dad was Franklin W. Dixon? Yes, yes, yes. That's right. I knew that was a pseudonym, and I read them all. See, isn't that a wild small world like that you you know you know i think it's wild anyway yeah so leslie mcfarland was that pen name i forget dixon the dixon pen name w dixon right and so uh it came to him honestly and he in and and uh brian himself has written 100 books but you yourself have you've written so many books. Like I was looking at the ventriloquism for dummies. That's a memoir.

Yes. I've written 11 books of poetry. The 11th one comes out this summer. It's called the last coherent thing. I wrote a memoir called ventriloquism for Dummies but you can also find it under the title When the Red Light Comes On, Get Off because the For Dummies people

didn't really like that we used that title and I have a novel coming out also this summer called a car to die for and is there any uh is there any uh cd cds people do you move cds anymore yes there are two record comedy albums available on itunes uh this is what i look like naked and my my latest one which came out a couple of days ago is oh yeah right sorry okay cool and the on tour records and i always liked you on the debaters like uh thank you that's

my favorite show too yeah i'm doing that you're so good at that debaters thank you that's my favorite show too yeah you're so good at that thank you what are they doing during the pandemic on the debaters like is that paused or something I believe they've done some zoom stuff but I'm not entirely sure

what they've done I gotta talk to pattersballs or whatever yeah patterballs who I book on humble and Fred, but I should get them on Toronto. Mike, I'm going to take a little note here to do that here. Uh, and you don't need to spend too much time on it, but we should mention that and you did bring it up, but that, uh,

you did have that America's got talent run and a lot of eyeballs on that show. So in 2013, that must've been some, some heat, as you said, for, for a little while there yeah got me a really cool uh gig for a private jesuit school in philadelphia which was kind of fun um but yeah you know it's reality television so it was weird but uh they liked my story with the, you know, the many years in recovery. I was in recovery, I guess, 19 years when I did that show. And so they liked my story up until the semifinals when they didn't like my story anymore. That's the way it goes.

I dried up on camera during a set. What does that mean? What does that mean exactly? Well, I was doing my semifinal set, and my wife had warned me, because you're backstage and you're walking to a mark. When they signal you, you're going to walk up to your mark and do your do your spot and it's going to be 90 seconds to two minutes not very long uh but while you're back there they're playing your b-roll they're

playing the interview with you and shots of your house and the John story type stuff. And my wife had warned me, don't watch. Don't watch that story. You know, concentrate on what you're doing. And I was a fool and I watched the story. And I remember watching what part of it and thinking, why would they, it should have tipped me, right? Why would they show that?

I look like an asshole. And it was a tip off later, I realized. So anyway, I walked out and I hit the spot. And in comedy, you have two jokes working at the same time, right? You have a joke in your mouth and you have a joke in your forehead. I call it the slot. So you have a joke in your forehead. I call it the slot. So you have a joke in your mouth, and when that joke finishes coming out of your mouth, the joke in the slot drops down into your mouth,

and a new joke appears up in the slot. So I'm doing joke number two, and I glance up to the slot, and there's no joke there. And I'm doing joke number two, and I'm thinking, gee, I wonder what the third joke there. And I'm doing joke number two and I'm thinking, gee, I wonder what the third joke is. Wow.

And I finished joke number two and there's no joke. Wow. And I think it lasted about three seconds. But the panic is exponential. I feel it now. I feel it hearing you describe it. I giggled. A friend of mine, probably my best friend in comedy, Andrew Gross, who runs the Edmonton Comedy Festival. Andrew said, I knew you were in trouble. I said, why? And he said,

because you giggled. You never giggle. so i giggled and i had to say something so i said something and what i said had a key word in it and that got me back and that got me back on track and then i was fine but uh that was the the most uh the the seminal moment of america's got talent for me was drying up at radio city music hall on live television like what happens when that three seconds which must have felt like an eternity like i can imagine three went one mississippi two i can imagine yep like what happens like what happens in that situation if three becomes nine? Like, like, like, Oh, you're, you're screwed. You're absolutely awful for you,

man. Luckily, luckily I had 33 years behind me and I could get through it. Right. Uh, but it's, um, you know, yeah.

Well, if it becomes nine second, your career is over, right? You become the guy who dried up on television. Man. Now I've been watching you in the zoom here and you've taken a few swigs of, uh,

regular Pepsi. Is that what I'm saying? Okay. And I remember distinctly when you were chatting with Ralph and Murgy that you mentioned you had given up candy, uh, and, but you still did do the,

you still drank the soft drinks or whatever. Yes, thank you for bringing it up. Is this the final vice? Is this it for John Wing in terms of vices? Like swigging the Pepsi, the regular Pepsi, I should say? Is this the final vice? No, I like porn. Oh yeah, was that a vice?

I didn't even think of that advice. What does your doctor say about that? I don't, oh, my doctor doesn't say much about Pepsi. My dentist has certainly something to say about it. Well, I'm headed right after this. Right, I know. And I'm going to set you free any moment now. But, and again, again, because Ralph's not only a client, but a good dear friend, people should,

if they want to hear more about your conversation about addiction and you really opened up about your upbringing in Sarnia and John Wings, Wings senior. And honestly, this is some real talk and you were very open there about and it explains some things. And we got to learn a bit of your challenges in your life, how you overcome, you know, you mentioned recovery for 19 years, like that entire story. Well, actually it's,

what is it now? 26 and a half. So good for you. Thanks. Congratulations. And here's my ask for you before I play you off so you can get to that dentist, because that'll be more fun for you than this, I'm sure. Oh, yeah.

At some point, I know you love music. In fact, I didn't even bring this up, but there was a great story about you seeing the Tragically Hip. I can't remember where I read this, but one of your interviews, because there's so much great content out there. But one of the interviews you did, you talked about your wife wanted to leave the hip, I guess the hip or plane. No, she didn't. No, that's not true. We went to see the hip at the House of Blues in LA.

And I think it was the Poets record. Yeah, that's the, don't tell me, that's the one with, Bruce McAuliffe did the video for music at work. Right? No, it's a different one. Anyway, we went late. It was 2000, 2001 like that. So, no.

So, I was totally digging it. I think every Canadian in LA was there. And about an hour and a bit in.antom power phantom power that was it an hour and a bit in my wife i turned to my wife said isn't this amazing right and she said i'm not able to understand a single word things which is natural if you've never she'd never listened to them is she american yeah okay i we and we don't we're not uh we have music in the house but i play it i play the guitar i play the piano we listen to music by ourselves what we when we listen so we never had the same musical taste so she'd never listened and you can can't hear Gordon Downey for the first time

and understand what he's saying. You can't. I had the same problem with Springsteen when I first listened to him on Born to Run. But we left because I couldn't enjoy it anymore knowing that she wasn't able to understand what he was saying. It just completely spoiled the enjoyment of it for me. Oh,

uh, maybe, can you see it? Let's see if I can. No, it's there. No, is that it?

Well, right behind me. Are those ticket stubs? I can't quite, it's a bit distant. Okay. Okay. Right behind me there.

Okay. Yeah. Over my head is the poster for their last tour. Are those ticket stubs? I can't quite, it's a bit distant. No, no. Right behind me, there. Okay, yeah. Over my head is the poster for their last tour. My head is blocking it. There it is. I love them, and it was fine. We left early, we beat the traffic, whatever. But if, you know, we don't do a great many things together, but if we're going to do something, we both have to enjoy it. So, yeah.

I always wonder what that, like, I'm a hip freak. I've got Gord Downie to my left. I can't show you because I can't move this camera, but I got Gord Downie on my wall and I- Clouds to the left of you go down to the right here you are looked up to the lord above and said hey man thanks okay so uh where was i going oh yeah so when i see when i see tragically up and i saw him on that last tour man machine poem and i have i see them with 20 000 people like i always hear about you people who live in america and go to the house of blues i don't know how many people were there, but what is that? Like 500 people? How many people are at the show?

Three to 500. Not that many. That's like a club experience. Like, that's amazing to me that this band will sell out, you know, five nights in a row at the air Canada center, 20,000 people time does, you know,

500 people shows in California. I met, I met them twice. 89, I did a Christmas show at the Campbell Street Station in Sarnia. And they were the house band that week. Wow. 89. Okay, you're right.

That's when Up to Here is coming out in 89. So this is pre-Road Apples. Right. They were the house band. They were just on the cusp. Wow. And then I don't know, some years ago,

five, six, seven years ago, I was flying to LA. I was at Toronto airport and they were on the flight. And I saw, I saw them in the, uh,

I saw them in the waiting area. The guy, is it Rob Baker? The long-haired guitar player. Oh, Gord Sinclair? Gord Sinclair. I saw him. You can't miss him. No, he's got that long streak.

I thought, that's the guy from The Hip. And I looked around. There was Gord Downie. And I went over to talk to him and I mentioned that we had worked together at the station in 89 and everything and he didn't remember and he didn't want to talk to me and I felt badly and they sat and coached this was the coolest thing they sat and coached. This was the coolest thing. They sat and coached, and he had an old doctor's bag that was full of lyrics

on loose sheets of paper, and he spent the whole flight. I watched him walk by a few times. He spent the whole flight working on lyrics. Wow. Amazing guy. Yeah, love that band. So this is a long-winded way of asking you,

at some point, you return to Toronto, Mike, to kick out the jams with me. I just did this with Hawksley Workman and Ralph Ben-Murray just joined in the fun. This was earlier in the week. But people return. And what it means is that

we play your 10 favorite songs of all time. And you tell us, why does that song resonate with you? Why did you choose it? Is there a story there? Why do you love this song? And it basically is like the 10 songs of John Wayne's life. You betcha.

Absolutely. I'll be there. I'm going to start picking my 10 songs as soon as I get my mouth frozen by the dentist. John Wayne, honestly, this was a pleasure, and I can't wait for the jam kick-in sequel. Thanks for doing this, buddy. Thanks, Toronto Mike.

And that brings us to the end of our 827th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. John is at John Wing Numeric 5, just like Bill Borilko at the end there. Numeric 5. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's on Instagram at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls.

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