Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - John Wing: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1629

Episode Date: February 10, 2025

In this 1629th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with John Wing about his favourite Toronto Yuk Yuks comics of the early 80s, his recent health challenge, and Trumps threats to Canada before John recites Ralph Benmergui's stand-up routines from 40+ years ago. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to episode 1629 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto Skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Gainey's,

sponsored by Fusion Corp. Construction Management Inc. and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto mic'd is John Wing. John Wing, how you doing? I had good news yesterday, so, but you know, you get to a certain age and you realize you can't have a health problem and be in Spain. How old are you, John? 65. Are you willing to share, like, what are you going through right now? Well,

my right eye is permanently damaged. The nerve is damaged and cannot be fixed. So I can't really see out of it. I mean, I can, but what I see is not that pleasant. So I discovered this when I went to the DMV to renew my license and I couldn't when I put my hand over my left eye I couldn't read the chart. I could read it from the other side no trouble. Well, it's reversed here but anyway. So my right eye is permanently damaged and will not recover. So I'm trying desperately to save my left eye so that I will be able to drive.

And you discover that virtually all your hobbies require a site. Right. It's a crazy thing. So I went on some heavy medication to get my eye pressure down and And then it got down. So I saw the doctor yesterday and it was way down, down into a manageable place and he was happy and blah, blah, blah. But in the interim, from first appointment to second appointment, I canceled the whole year on ships. Oh, the cruise ships. Right. Yeah. I had the whole year booked and I canceled it. And essentially I retired from ships. No more. I mean, last year I had seven, 10 hour or longer flights and I was all over the world

and it just beat the shit out of me. And I couldn't face having a real health problem and being in Tahiti or something. You know? So you don't want to die out there. I suspect it's something prisoners also feel. Want to get out of jail before they die. So I quit ships. I'm still working, but not off the continent

and no long trips. So, okay. So I have a couple of thoughts here. One is that our grandparents, John, were retired by 65, right? Like this whole idea that we got to work at 65 is sort of a recent phenomena. True. True. I can't get to worry more about money. I mean, it's me and my wife, we have our house, she's still working, she's older than me. And essentially what I'm taking away, the ships were our spending money.

So I've been hustling around trying to get, let the people, you know, I used to work for a lot, know that, you know, the corporates, the debaters, other things. Right. I'm available again. You know, I'm going to be free if you call me. But I've also been traveling, hard traveling for more than 40 years. And man, that gets, you get tired. You really get tired of it. So, and I'm leaving Sunday.

Where are you going Sunday? I'm going to Tampa and I'm doing a bunch of jobs for the Canadian Snowbirds Association. Oh, when is this airing? Like Monday. So you're actually gonna take the spot of Holly Cole who had to postpone cause she's going to Japan. I love Holly Cole You know Holly. We love you. I'm sure we'll do it another time

I'm recording an album at Guelph Little Theatre on February the 28th Live show there's there's three other acts, Suzanne Paquin and two comics I don't know and an emcee and I forget their names. I should have them. I don't, but it's going to be a very good show and we're recording my show live. And if there's still tickets and they're not terribly expensive, I think they're $35. So if people, and you know you can go train to Guelph, you know you can do that. You don't have to drive, you can go train. Anyway. Well, I was going to say, John, if the first five minutes of this chat are any indication, you're absolutely hilarious, right? This has been pretty funny.

Well, I got a lot of, I got some new stuff. It's funny, somebody said to me at a thing recently, do you ever turn it off? And I just got my diagnosis and I thought to myself, if I turn it off, all I'll think about is I'm going blind That's all I'll think about so I just got to keep trying to write jokes Well, I got two words for you. I know you're a you're still a Leafs fan, right? What oh I see okay with the angle like you're wearing a Leafs hat so two words for you man, Brian Berard Two words for you, man. Brian Burrard.

Brian Burrard. You remember when Brian Burrard, he was a great defenseman and then he was. A great defenseman. Yeah, yeah. But he was blinded in one eye. I think it was Marion Hosa, but I think in Ottawa, Senator's stick blade hit his eyeball and he went blind.

He continued, he played for the Leafs with vision in one eye only, and he was blind. He continued, he played for the Leafs with vision in one eye only and he was still pretty damn good. You know, that gives me hope. I also recently discovered a friend I've known 45 years has been blind in one eye that entire time. Right. So, and I'm not blind in that eye, but my, I'm also, you know, it's a timing thing now. I need a new prescription, so I have to spend money on glasses, but I've been, whoop, but I've been trying to get this, hold on, hold on, tech alert. There it is. So I've been trying to get this glaucoma thing squared away. I haven't done that. And I don't want to go to an optical to get a prescription because they just want to sell you glasses and I don't think they necessarily give you a I

Want to go to a doctor at a hospital and get a proper? prescription so When I when I do that, I think I will see much better and probably be able to I'm hopeful I'll be able to drive. I know a lot of one-eyed people who do drive So I'm hopeful my doctor will sign off on that Do you remember Larry Fedoruk from your yuk-yuk days? Oh, man, I could quote you some jokes, baby I could quote you some jokes you ever been to your Ukrainian wedding. Really? How long did you stay four five days? Every every Ukrainian wedding you always meet this guy you're walking

around you meet this guy and he says I'm having a good time but but where's the newlyweds and you have to tell them well after the honeymoon they moved out east you said why am I bringing up Larry a couple of reasons one is I produce his fine podcast which is called, um, later that same life. So there's that. But the reason I brought him up is because you're talking about, you know, treatments for glaucoma. I don't remember the, like the, the, the exact diagnosis, but Larry Fedorik on the reg has to get a needle in his eyeball. Yeah. So I don't know degenerative, muscular, I don't know. Macular, macular degeneration.

That's a bad one. So that I don't think he can drive anymore actually because when he comes to the TMLX events his brother drives him so I think I think it did cost him the license. I know I know another one of the comic who can't drive because of also, but because of glaucoma, cause he has no peripheral vision. But, um, Hey man, you, um, uh, I keep thinking about my first car. I bought a used car in 1985, um, Pontiac Phoenix, had a bench front seat, which you rarely see anymore.

And man, I love that car. Drove, drove the living shite out of that car for 10 months because I had to pay for it. So I drove it, did a bunch of millions of gigs. And it might have been more than it might have been like 14 or 15 months in, I was on the road and something went wrong with the car. And then I got it fixed. But then every month, for six straight months, But then every month for six to eight months, something went wrong. So it was a domino. And at 65, you think about that, right? You think one thing goes wrong, what's next?

What's the next appliance in my body that's gonna have to be replaced. So. Well, I was gonna say, you know, because I didn't know what was ailing you until you disclosed it to me just earlier in this chat and you talked about your your site. And I was thinking my first initial thought was shit could be worse. Like, you know, way worse. Yeah, absolutely. It could be. I don't know. I got stage six cancer. I don't know if there's a stage six, but there's no stage six stage four is the last stage. Right.

So I just a great FOTM John Donahby. Do you remember John Donahby from Toronto Airwaves? No, I don't. Okay. So he was a did 50 years on the radio and he passed away last week from stage four. He had well, he had cancer and he died last week and I've been I listened to his visit to here where we talked about his career and what he's just a sweetheart

I'm listening back and I'm thinking like and I had a conversation with him on the phone just in I think it was october 2024, but it might have been november, but The man's gone, you know, like I think uh think I'll give up my sight if I can, you know, still tell jokes and still, you know, enjoy the sunshine. Yeah, sure. But yeah, yeah. What is it from Full Metal Jacket? The dead know only one thing. It is better to be alive. Right? Yes. In the long run, what it is in the long run, it's not the worst thing, but it's scary. It's scary. And it's all you think about. And my big problem, one of the big problems I have is My big problem, one of the big problems I have is stress really puts me in a bad state. I stressed off five pounds last week and I had a lot of anxiety about this.

It's not going to be resolved. That's the other thing. I'm going to have to go to the eye doctor now. Minimum four or five times a year, maybe more. So I can't. I can't be booked solid anymore, just can't. So that's the thing. No, I get it. It's very disruptive. I'm still funny. You're still funny.

So funny. Well, you're real man. Maintain a professional standard. Right. I get it. No, I get it because you it's so disruptive. Like, and then am I right that they can save the site on one eye? Is that what I heard?

Yeah. OK. Though he told me yesterday and he told me the time before. I wondered why he was telling me again. But he sees a lot of people. He said yesterday and I knew it. We can't get back what you've lost. And that's fine. I want to save what I have. So I don't know. Yeah, fine. Gone. I've jettisoned that. So he'll probably tell me again, he's one of those doctors who sees a lot of people. So do you, uh, do you remember, we're going to test your memory now. Do you remember your Toronto mic debut? Well, I believe I was, I believe we were in your basement.

No, that did not happen. No, no. If anything, so I'm about to play a clip from Jeremy Hotz, who was in the basement this week. And again, usually I drop it the day I record it, but I'm recording on Thursday and I'm dropping it Monday. So, but he was in this week that we're talking now. He was down here, but his first appearance was via Zoom from California. That sounds familiar. And he had no memory of it. Which is fine. But do you have any memory of Zooming with me back in March 2021?

Yeah, I remember we did a, oh, I know the basement was I came down and Ralph was doing a thing. Right. Okay. That was for yes. Okay. You you were down here for not that kind of rabbi and I was producing it. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Yes. I remember. I remember zoom with you. How can I forget it? You you on the anniversary you post it. You won't let me forget it. You will not let your guests forget. Well, you follow me to blue skies. So I just tag you on all this shit. Yeah, yeah. Well, I had to leave Twitter. So so me too. I maybe a minute because I'm going to read the description so people can hear your like the ongoing history of John

Wing is in episode 827. So I'll read the maybe I'll read the description. I'll come back to the Twitter and then we'll get back to Jeremy Hots and Ralph Ben-Murgy here. But okay, so March 2021. It was episode 827 Mike chats with John Wing about fellow Sarnians The Toronto stand-up scene in the early to mid 80s, which I love talking about Sharing a stage with Ralph Ben-Murgy, Mike McDonald, and Jim Carrey, John's move to LA, which I do want to talk about soon, appearing on The Tonight Show, and America's Got Talent, and our mutual love of the Tragically Hip. Yeah.

So since then, you've seen the doc series, I take it. So, since then, you've seen the doc series, I take it. No, I haven't actually. I've got it on one of my services. A prime, I think. Yeah, I will see it. I have not seen it yet. My wife is not that interested in them, so I have to watch it on the sly. You know what?

I'm in the same boat. My wife didn't have any interest and I had to watch. It's hard. Maybe Maybe you're like me. We're like at night when I get when I get these kids to bed anyways, we have a little time like about an hour a night basically to watch something together and we kind of both have to like turn the key and say we both approve of this program. Yes. Yes. And she has got she's got a bunch of like selling sunset and stuff that I have zero interest in that she watches on the like on the sly and then I've got my music docs and my stuff that I watch on the sly like my Bojack Horseman or whatever so it's like right you get into these like rhythms.

Well it was easier for her when I was on the road more because she could watch all the ones she wanted. But we started one recently and I could tell she thought it was silly, called The Madness. And so after three episodes, I binged the rest over a couple of days and just told her what happened. And she probably appreciated that. I hope so. But I have not seen the Tragically Hip Doc. Although I will say this, I will say this. My brother hates them for a various number of reasons, but one of the reasons he dislikes

them is he says all their songs sound the same. And if you listen to a whole bunch of their songs in a row, he's right. But he's right. He's right. That's all right. He's right. The same way.

If I were to tell you all you two songs sound the same because the I'm not into you too, but I like, I like their groove. You know what I mean? I like their groove you know what I mean I like their groove he's more musical than I am sure but I was listening to a whole bunch of them one day in a row and I thought I got to admit he's right their songs have very musically yeah yeah music a bit Rob Baker has a style just like the edge has a style like So they have these distinctive styles that sort of... Right. Yeah. Oh, they have a style. Absolutely. Oh, wow. I mean, one of the reasons, I think one of the reasons they made it is Gord's lyrics are so iconoclastic. And he is, if you've ever, I'm sure you have, if you've ever seen a band that is a really good

rockin band and their front man just isn't cutting it, you understand how important the front guy is. And Gord Downie, man, top, top tier front man, absolutely top tier front man. Plus a lyricist, an artist in his own right, a lyricist who wrote lyrics like nobody else. That's important. So there's a lot of stuff to like about the hip. That album. Yeah, Road Apples. So there's a lot of stuff to like about the hip. That album, your road apples, that's got long time running, which was one of the first songs

I ever really got into them. And I also love, you know, I, you know that I, I did a show in Sarnia in like 89 around Christmas and they were the house band that week at the club I did the show on. So you say 89 and at Christmas 89 that's after the release of Up to Here, their first full LP which had huge Canadian radio hits like Blow It High Doe, New Orleans Is Sinking, Boots or Hearts. Well okay maybe it's earlier, maybe it's 88. Okay, so now I'm going to John Wing, I'm going to sign you homework.

So in addition to finding time for the Tragically Hip documentary on Prime, you can thank me later. Listen to Alan Gregg. Alan Gregg on Toronto Mic, it was about three weeks ago in the basement here. He was the guy with Jake Gold who started the management trust and had this band from Kingston. They were trying to get a record deal for so in that period you're talking about 88 or whatever just when they're trying to get Up to here made and dropped. That's Alan Gregg share stories that didn't even make the doc. That'll blow your mind. That's Alan Gregg shares stories that didn't even make the doc that'll blow your mind

Okay. Yeah, that's your homework. Okay. I never forgot them introducing themselves after the comedy show Because that name sticks with you Gore Downey or the child hip we're the tragically hip. What a great band name. Jesus. What a great band name, man Yeah. Yeah, so let me again name, man. Yeah, yeah. So let me again, in a minute, I'm going to play this clip from Jeremy Hots, which kind of sparked eventually, by the end of the show, we'll play it. I have like a mental checklist here. But I just want to ask you because I was an avid tweeter. Like I multiple times a day I checked in, I posted on

Twitter, I'd reply like since, I don't know, I got on there and I don't know what it was, 2008, whatever the heck it was. But for like 15 years I tweeted like a madman. And then when Elon bought Twitter, it, like a lot of the bloom came off the Rose and then slowly but surely I started to like it less and less. Where since November 6th, I fucking hate that app. Like when I go there, my stomach, just the worst people, rage farmers, people trying to pick fights with you and Nazis. I fucking hate that site. And I wonder if you felt a similar, you know, devil, the evolution. I deleted my account day after the election and disengaged completely.

We still watch John Stewart on Mondays. My wife is more engaged with the news than I am, but I can't, I've got enough. I mean, let's be realistic. If I'm lucky, I have 10 years to live. If I'm really lucky, I have 15. And I can't be spending that time being depressed about what the hell is going on. So I'll vote and I'll make a comment or two on Blue Sky. Occasionally I make a comment, but it surprises me that people aren't able to recognize conmen

anymore. It surprises me. But hey, there you go. The society is dumber than you thought. Huh. Yeah, well, they don't have the math grid, you know? They don't have... We had this math grid of math by rote.

They taught us and got this really incredible, strong grid for our memory. And you can pile an infinitesimal number of things on that memory, on that grid. And I don't think kids today have that. But I do feel it. It starts in the home, right? Like, sure, kids go off to school and they mean I got four kids in school right now. Okay, so I know, but I know various levels. What are you Catholic or something? I was raised Catholic. Yes, I know, but I know various levels. What are you Catholic or something? I was raised Catholic.

Yes, I was, but that's a whole separate convo, but I shed it all. Like, have you shed it all? I know you're still, if I remember correctly, you're still practicing, right? Nope, nope, nope. Stopped many, many, many, many years ago. Okay, me too.

But, but, but all this is to say that I'm still a believer. As a matter of fact, I, this was great yesterday. I all last week, I have a guy in Ontario who would be for a better, for lack of a better phrase, a spiritual advisor. be for a better, for lack of a better phrase, a spiritual advisor. And occasionally I call him and ask him if he will pray for something, add something to his prayers. And I was praying yesterday for a good outcome and I texted him and I said, can you pray for a good outcome for me today? Because I could really use one. And when I got the good outcome, I called him and I said, we're talking to so-and-so who has a direct line to the Lord. And he laughed and he said, everyone has a direct line to the Lord. I just use mine more than most people do. And I thought that was such a good line

So but John, okay, so clearly from your stand-up in many years of following you you're a very smart man This is me telling you this if you need to know that okay, and I respect your thoughts on this But do you believe that that that path or that connection between us? Mortals and the God you believe in like that's a two-way street like we put it up and it comes back I just can't imagine God's interfering uh like God's not going to be like yeah I got some prayers it sounds like it's a wonderful life right I've been getting we've been getting a lot of noise about this George Bailey

fellow. We need you to. Yeah, yeah. I'm getting the Bible. It says very clearly in the Bible. Whenever two or more gathered in my name, I will be there as well. The only reason I believe in it is I've seen it. I don't believe in it having not seen it work. I believe in it because I've seen it. It has helped me specifically on a number of occasions. And I try very hard not to pray for specific things. Yesterday was an exception, but I try to pray for safety or pray for the children, keep the children safe. When we had to evacuate a few years ago for a fire, I asked my friend to pray that no one would be hurt.

I didn't ask God to save my fucking house. So I think it has a lot to do with the idea that you come in with. Because I always, you know, I used to say, even before I left Catholicism, I had this spiritual idea that if you show me, and this worked in my career too, if you show me the path, I'll walk the path. You know, if you show me the road, I'll get down that road. If you can give me the sign that says, this is the road, then I'll go. And you're right, you don't always get the sign you don't what what god answers most prayer all prayers but sometimes the answer is no right so you don't always

get the sign but but if you ask all you're really asking is you're asking the best part of yourself to help you can I when I When I quit smoking, which was incredibly difficult for me, 10 years ago, I went to the same guy and I said, I have to quit smoking or I'm going to be dead in 10 years. That was 10 years ago. And I need to pray for strength. And he and his wife, and we prayed for strength, and I quit smoking. And maybe it was all me, but I like to think I had help. And I don't care if you okay, I don't care if you don't think so, that's fine.

It helped me, that's the only thing that's important to me. One more thing. Sure. This is the most important thing. You can live your life worshiping God, glorifying God, or you can live your life not worshiping God, not glorifying God. And I believe God honors both choices, okay? Both choices.

So whatever choice you make, man, at any point, and you can make a different choice in a different situation. So, it's just my thing. That's all. It works for you, which is amazing. But I do have a question. So, God spared your eye, but I guess why did God take the first eye? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

All right. Okay, I don't think that's the right question, but I respect the question. All right. I just don't think it's the right one. Just wondering why you had to lose an eye to be like, I haven't lost an eye. It's right here. It's right here. It's not functioning properly. If I close this, I can't read McGill on your shirt. Right. It's like there's a film going across it when you... Well, he could have just left you with good vision for the rest of your life. Okay, so I respect...

I'm just trying to make it as long as we can go without making a Jeremy Hots clip. All right, on that note, now, because I realize I actually have a gentleman from Elephants and Stars coming by to kick out the jams, and you're like, those words, what do they mean? Don't worry about it, John. Okay, so last, no, this week, Jeremy Hots comes over,

he has his dog with him, Shackleton. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. That dog never leaves him. That dog is glued to his stomach. Literally. Yeah. So I don't know literally, but it was right here and we're talking.

So I'm going to play a clip. I hope you can hear this. I'll I know your sights failing, but hopefully you hear this. Hopefully I've set the zoom up properly. Let's listen. Do you remember any Ben Murgy standup? Ralph? Yes.

No, Ralph. I don't recall Ralph ever telling a joke. Ah! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Wings says he's gonna come on and do the entire set. That's incredible, cause I would laugh, cause I would probably remember some of it. I probably would.

Ralph Ben Murgy was the host of Fridays or Saturday nights at Yuck Yucks at the downtown club years ago. And their stuff went down there. We saw Mike McDonald in a fist fight one night with someone in the crowd in front of the club after the show. What can you tell me more about that fist fight Mike McDonald got into? I believe, I'm gonna theorize that Guy heckled him and made Mike have to do a show he didn't want to do, ruined the show for Mike.

He heckled him repeatedly. After the show, the guy came up to Mike and said, I was helping you up there, and Mike attacked him. That is my, that's what I heard. I believe that's what happened, but, but I could be wrong. It could be apocryphal, but I was thinking about Mike this week actually. Um, cause it's funny, Mike and Jeremy have this weird, um, uh, well, uh, two things happened,

one in Toronto, one in Ottawa. And, and Jeremy did the smart thing. Um, like in Toronto in the 78, 79 at the, at the yuck yucks, I wasn't there but Mike came from Ottawa and there was a number one guy and a number two guy and the number one guy was was you know physical and angsty and you know bubba da boobba da boom he did a a lot of things, but he was obviously the guy. And then Mike walked in and did a set. And from that moment on, Mike was the guy and, uh, the other guy. Uh, and somebody said to me years later, after that set, the other guy who will call Ed, I don't want to say his name, but somebody said,

Ed should have gone to fucking LA right then. He should have gone. But he didn't. He never went to LA. And he appeared, you know, his appearances at the club eventually tapered off. And I think he still does stand up now and again, but Mike was an intimidating presence. And the same thing happened to Jeremy to a degree. He was number one at the Ottawa club. And one night Norm walked in and Norm was number one, but Jeremy was so smart. He left. He had the guts to go somewhere where he would be number 200 and work his way up.

He went to Toronto and worked his way up and paired, shaved his act down, like a planed his personality down to this thing that he does now. But he had the guts to go. He didn't stay and fight it out with Norm. And I always thought that showed real balls. So that was my thing. And yeah, want to hear some Ralph jokes?

You got it, baby. Okay. So Ralph jokes coming just because this is going to be a, we'll circle back to this in a moment, which is how long have you lived in the United States of America? How long have I lived in the United States of America? Roughly 37 years. And is it California is where you're at?

Yes. Okay. So 37. And Hotz has lived less time, but he lives in California as well for 20 plus years. Yeah, yeah. I do see him every now and again. It's just funny to me when you do listen back to Hots in the basement here, which I recommend because he was great, but he says he thinks you've moved back to the Maritimes or Toronto. No, no. Anyway.

Anyway, so we'll get back to the USA Canada stuff which is kind of Hots, Hots is a sweet spot there. But yeah, this is why we're talking right now is because Hots comes over. I mentioned Ben Murgy somehow because I always think of Ben Murgy. We're having a double date. Ben Murgy and his wife are going to go out for dinner with my wife and I. This is like There's an email thread and every day somebody chimes in of when and where and it's all happening and it's

very exciting. I'm going to report back to the FOTM on how it goes. But you did, I think it was your first appearance on Toronto Mic, you did tell me you could do Ben Murrighi's stand up because I missed Ben Murrighi's stand up career. I can do some of it, sure. So maybe I shut up because people are tired of my voice and I just lean back and you take the mic there and yeah, give us some context and let's hear some of Ben Murgy's stuff. All right.

I'm an actor, so I do commercials and you have to audition for commercials and you have to, you have to, you know, go in the directors trying to get you to, you know, say it right. And you go, so I get this commercial and he says, okay, Ralph, let's try it. You're beautiful. I love you. You're the best. You're absolutely the best.

Wow. These shreddies really taste great. Cut. Not enough enthusiasm, Ralph. I need more. I need more. Can you give it to me? Can you give me more with that?

You're beautiful. You're so, man, you're the best actor. You're a dickie of a guy. Okay. Try it again. Okay. Action. Wow.

These shreddies really taste great. Cut. Still not enough enthusiasm, Ralph. Come on. Come on. Wow, these shreddies really taste great. Cut, still not enough enthusiasm, Ralph. Come on, come on, I know you got more in there. I know you can do more. You're the best actor in the business. Come on, come on, come on. All right, all right.

Wow, these shreddies really taste great. They make my shit soft. But of course you gotta remember that television is brought to you by the people who think you believe, who made you believe that nobody fucked on Gilligan's Island. I mean, come on, come on, Ginger, Marianne, Mrs. Howell. Okay, not Mrs. Howell. All right, not Mrs. Howell.

I mean, if I get that horny, I'll swim to shore. No, no, fuck off, Mrs. Howell. I'm not, no, fuck horny I'll swim to shore. No, no, fuck off, Mrs. Howell. I'm not, no, fuck you. I'm trying to think. He did a couple of long bits. He did like a trans bit, amazingly, yeah. How did that age, if you think back to those, as I think of it, I mean, he acted this. What was it a girl, a guy dressed, he did a transvestite bit.

And he did both. It was called the Oh, yeah, you came out. Okay, I'm gonna have to say the title of it. You can't say the title of it anymore. It was called the fag in the greaser. I believe it was called. So we had this gay guy dressed as a woman. And this this tough Italian type guy. And he would just switch back and forth and they would be telling you the story. This gorgeous guy. And I'm thinking either he's into smuggling sandbags in his pants or I'm in love. And the guy was like, so I went uptown, bluer, right? You know, like that. And I figured who the fuck's gonna know from uptown.

And the gay cross dresser seduces the tough greaser. But anyway, I'm trying to think. He also did a thing about... Oh, can I ask some questions? Okay, so an idea I have is what if we like, we do proper disclaimers and we do proper like, you know how when you watch like an old, something from like the 50s and they put a disclaimer

like our values have changed and you know, I don't know, like when Bugs Bunny Bunny is has a swastika on his arm, he have to understand whatever. So we could do like all the stand up. You remember that you wouldn't you could. He thought he couldn't you wouldn't do it today because we've evolved like even hearing that Ben Murgy like a lot of that like that's like I'm sure he's going to love the fact that we shone a light on this, but that was the time it is of the time. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. He did. He did. What did he do? We had a joke about he did

this girl from forest hill. He can do that because his father, he can do that because his father gave him a Camaro for passing theater arts. That was one of the jokes. My jar of cocoa butter broke open in my suitcase. God, I hate that. Ralph did, yeah, Ralph did women characters. He really did.

He had a character called the artiste. I only saw it once. He rarely did it after 1981, I would say. But so I don't remember much of the artiste, but I know he did it. And he always closed with the cross dresser and the greaser and the tough guy, at least as I recall. Oh, we had this bit about, oh, yeah, this was great. Oh, yeah, he would do this girl he went to school with and he would put a wig on. He would put a girl's hair wig on and be a girl. And he says, I'm going to Montreal to do yuck yucks. And I'm on the train and I'm sitting,

it's a four seat on the train, one side facing the other side, four seat. And there's a girl sitting on the other side, four seat. And there's a girl sitting there. So we get chatting and, you know, and she's pretty. And I'm like, yeah, baby, I'm an actor. Yeah. And we're halfway, we're halfway to Montreal. We're chatting.

It's really going well. And suddenly I think it, and I say it, I go, Oh fuck, I forgot my wig. That was a bit he did. You know, when I think of, you know, straight cis males doing like women characters, I think of kids in the hall, like Ralph, just ahead of the curve there. But well, Ralph, yeah, Ralph could have, he, for a brief time, he did some shows with Nip and Tuck Tubrag, which was Anton Leo and Jim Tuck and later John George.

I think Ralph either preceded John George or replaced him briefly at one point. And he was great in sketches. And he used to do a piece with Steve, the late Steve Schuster called Sandler and Young Play Vegas, which was just this incredibly cheesy duo, cheap musical act duo, but they sang, they sang, they both were fine singers, and they sang beautiful harmonies. And Ralph did the, Ralph did the the Suavo Sandler, who was sort of Latin lover type, and Steve did the goofy young who played the guitar and said things like, oh, yeah, let's do that song.

Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. You know, and they would do harmonies with that. But, and that was like a, almost like a party piece that when they didn't have a comic, uh, in a, when they, when they were short a comic one night, um, uh, they asked Ralph and Steve to go up and do it. And they did, I saw them do it at yuck yucks. They did it a few times, but it was more like something they, they worked up to do at parties. God, it was it was so weird back then I Loved the stories about back then What how come you're so good at recalling these routines like you can just this was a Larry Fedoruk bit

This was a Ralph Ben Murgy like you're very good at this Well, I think I told you last time the the first two years, 80, 81, 80 and 81, I missed 10 nights at Yuck Yucks in that two-year period. I saw everybody. And then in 82, I was there a lot too. It wasn't until 83 that I started really going out on the road. So the first three years I was at Yuck Yucks every night I could be there. And most nights I wasn't performing, although I performed more in 82. But most nights I was just there to watch, you know, see guys, hear their jokes. And you'd see a guy five times or six times in a week, because the headliner did a bunch of shows. So you'd see him a bunch of times and the bits you liked,

you would, and you got to, you started to get a feel for how does this bit ever change? No, it doesn't. It's always, he's got it perfect. He's got the beats on it, right? So, oh, sorry. It's okay. So who was, and I know some of this we talked

about the first time, but some people are gonna just listen to this episode because I'm even more popular now, John. Oh my goodness. But wow, that's so great. As someone who has a podcast that gets a solid 90 downloads a week, shout out your podcast. The Bad Piano Player podcast. Season 6. Okay. Incredible. Maybe we'll double that 90 now that we're- But my question is, in those early 80s where you're at Yuck Yuck? Uh, the greatest, well, uh, there were, there were guys who had, uh, particular skills, Simon Rakoff was the best joke writer. Uh, maybe he and Lawrence Morgenstern. Lawrence is such a loss. He came after a show

a few years ago after he saw a show of mine and he had three full notebook pages of notes for me. And almost every one of them was a joke I ended up using in my show. That's how good he was. Simon's a great joke writer, Lawrence a great joker, both of them, just fabulous. Larry Horowitz, technically one of the most perfect comedians you'll ever see. And he was so kind, taught me things, taught me techniques, showed me why one thing works and one doesn't, why the word is important, why the beat is important,

why the way your voice goes up or down is important, and how you have to make that natural. You have to let that happen by itself sort of thing. But live, there was nobody like Mike. When there were a couple of shows I saw Mike do, Mike McDonald, where the show ended and you looked around and went, oh, right, I'm in a comedy club. That's right. I came to the comedy club and I saw Mike. But for a while, for an hour, I wasn't in a comedy club.

I was wherever Mike wanted me to be. Norm MacDonald, like, yeah, there's so much about Norm. Yeah, there's so much about Norm. Yeah. He reached out when he was dying. I didn't know he was dying, but he reached out, wanted to get some of the guys together. And I called a couple of them and they were both like, what's in it for Norm? Nobody wanted to. So, and then I watched his final special that he did at his house and he did one of my jokes.

And I was like, am I, should I be insulted? He did one of my jokes or flattered that he did one of my jokes? I decided to be flattered. Which joke? It was about polling. It was a polling joke. An odd joke to do these days, but the original idea I did was when they do a phone poll and they have, you know, 80% said yes, 17% said no, and 3% said they didn't know. And I used to say, who phones up? Who calls up the television station to say they don't know? Come on.

Right? That was the idea. And he essentially appropriated it. And I don't know if he ever saw me do it. He might've. Norm had celebrities, so he didn't have any worries about that. But I'm thinking now,

I'm thinking because George Harrison, of course, was accused of stealing. He's so fine from the chiffons for my sweet Lord. And then they called it, I can't remember the term subconscious plagiarism, like somehow he didn't know he was stealing it. Is it possible that Norm doesn't realize? Absolutely. Absolutely.

It's certainly possible. And also if Norm was alive and well and healthy as a horse right now, that is a dick move. He's lifting your joke without crediting it. I feel like we give him a pass because he's dying. Well, but he knows he's going to get a pass too because he's a celeb and I'm not right right like that um right norm got into circles none of us got to right um right uh the best stand-ups was there I was trying to um Dom Herrera was one of the best stand-ups I ever saw and still is And I remember I used him when you talk about making it, quote unquote, I always thought, you know, it has nothing to do with how talented you are.

Dom Herrera never made it, made it, made it, right? Never made the big money. But he was- Well, Mike McDonald's another example where Mike McDonald never made the big money. Mike had a very specific problem and that was, excuse me, the TV screen flattened him or something, made him small. And the difference between Mike live and Mike on TV is the same difference between watching hockey on TV and watching hockey live.

It's entertaining, but it's amazing live. And that might not even be a good comparison. The small screen destroyed the spark that Mike had. And it wasn't his fault. It was just the way it was, you know? He was so big. His presence was so large up there. And man, Howard Nemitz, great comic, now a triathlete. My age and a fucking pro athlete. Just these people. So yeah, lots of good comments.

So you dropped a lot of great names there. So I just want to shout out Simon Rakoff because he comes to my events. So I love to see him at these TMLx events. He was at the last one at Palmer's Kitchen just late November and always loved seeing that guy. And yeah, I think Simon's amazing. Great, yep. He uh you call I call him I've got some joke ideas and he always has something you know always. And he really went to war uh there was a change I guess you know the story but the just for laughs and serious excellent comedy yeah so you know he came on this show and he said he was

taking a big risk you know a big risk but he wanted to speak out because it was unfair to comics in this country he was absolutely correct to do that yep brave guy for it yep me too I was happy to give him the forum. I believe I said something on Twitter. I said I was there spiritually anyway And you mentioned Lawrence. It's Morgan Stern, right? And I know he was working with Bullard you have any words about Mike Bullard who has passed away since we last talked Well, I knew Mike a long time. He was a very nice man, and he was very funny. Off the cuff, his brother Pat was equally as funny off the cuff.

funny off the cuff. I think Mike just got wound up in a situation and he felt an injustice had been performed upon him and he was so desperate to prove that he had been unjustly treated, that he just kept making it worse. And I felt really badly, but once you get into that kind of a cycle, once you make that first mistake and then you start, I mean, my father was a lawyer and he told me in every, literally every situation, the best thing you can do is shut your fucking mouth. And he was absolutely right.

Even though I make a living talking to people and I talk way too much and he told me that a billion times. There are times when I know you gotta shut up. You gotta stop. It's like my eye. You know what I mean? Once something's damaged to that degree, there's no getting it back. What you will spend to get it back will ruin you. And I think that's what happened to Mike. I could be wrong. I felt very badly for him because I don't think he was a bad guy.

My experience is a little different in that, I know maybe he makes a mistake and then he compounds it, maybe makes it worse for himself. And then at some point, I know maybe he makes a mistake and then he compounds it maybe makes it worse for himself and then at some point I think Mike Bullard is looking for punching bags to somehow like relieve himself of this pent-up aggression as he feels he's so you know damaged and wronged by Kevin Donovan in the star his list of people he blamed sort of and then I will tell you The man you're talking to right now Toronto Mike was one of those punching bags. Oh

Yeah, I didn't know that and That no in your case. I think he was justified. No, I'm kidding Well, it's about time you bring the funny here. Come on. Okay, just kidding, but Mike Bullard in a desperate, you know, I guess Oh, it's about time you bring the funny here. Come on. Okay. Just kidding. But Mike Bullard in a desperate, you know, I guess, clawing at everything, trying to salvage whatever he feels he had lost. I became a target for months and it was a frightening summer when Bullard decided to set his sights on, I mean, I kept the receipts.

It was I wrote it. I did a podcast about it. But yeah, he was my whole family was affected because my adult kids and my wife would see on the app formerly known as Twitter, the threats from this. Seemingly unhinged fellow, and, you know, he would constantly he would tell me how we'd be in the same room one day and he had seven years of aggression to like I mean just threats I don't need in my in my life no no I get I get it I'm sorry

I'm sorry it happened to you thanks man did you know his uh his brother was is the singer I guess the band is actually now officially done I suppose but the down child blues band did you know his brother was the singer Mike Bullard I don't like the term half brother to be honest but it so I guess half brother yeah okay no I only know Pat yeah both parents they share with Pat go ahead okay by the, a couple of years ago, my friend Steve Pulver, who you probably don't know, who was a comic and an MC at Yuck Yucks in the early 80s, who got out of the business, he came up,

he came out down to LA to play some golf with me for a week. And one night I said my wife had book club and we were going to go out to dinner, he and I. And I set it up so Maurice LaMarche, Jeff Rothpan, Howard Nemitz, Pat Bullard, Lou Dinos, and maybe a couple other guys. We all had dinner at this place and, uh, and they were all guys who were around when Steve was around. So it was a, this little reunion. It was great.

And, and Bullard walks in 61, 62 years old, still just felt as a, as a goddamn tree, beautiful young tree. And he walks up to the table and most of us were already there. And he says, is it my imagination or did the room suddenly get better looking? And then, um, we have the waiter take a picture of all of us. And he takes the picture and Pat says, and he cracked the whole table up with his, Pat says, can you just take one of me now? Were you affected at all by the the terrible fires?

We were triangulated by him but an affected yeah affected sure but not our house didn't burn down. Did you have to leave? No. Okay. No, I let have funny thing the day it started. The Wednesday, I had to get on a ship and go to Hawaii from Long Beach. My it was the last ship I ever did. And the you know, I kept tabs on it and I've got this, they've got an app now called watch duty, which shows you alerts you whenever there's a fire. Huh? So I get new alerts, but, um, no, there was a fire to the, um, so we're, we're like, okay.

Uh, we're in Sunland like here. So there was a fire up here, that was the Eaton fire and there was a fire up here, the Hearst fire and there was a fire down here, the Palisades fire, but it never got close to us. The Eaton fire to the northeast of us, that was the one that was going to be a problem, the one that destroyed Altadena. But no, we didn't. We've been lucky. We've had fires get within a mile of the house before. This is the fourth or fifth time in the last 16 or 17 years. So it's always something in LA. It's always some plague happening, you know. So this is how I want to... First, I'm glad that you were able to stay in your home and... We are considering selling the house in a couple of years

and moving probably up to Washington State because as my wife put it, we don't care to have to rebuild our home in our 70s. And I completely agree with that, even though I't want to move. I love my house. But if you're moving, have you considered maybe, you know, British Columbia? Mm-hmm. If it were, if I could find a place that was reasonable, where we wouldn't have to, you know, spend all the money we make on this house. I have friends who live on Gabriola Island and they keep bugging us. We went up to stay

with them and it's a lovely place, no traffic light. Did you know that? The entire island has no traffic light. Did not know that. And we went up to stay with them. And they talked about maybe, you know, they showed us a couple of properties for sale and stuff. I don't know. The thing about British Columbia is most of it's really expensive. That's the big problem.

So, but anyway. But I'm talking, so I'm talking to you, John, who I think is a, I believe to be a, like an intelligent, thoughtful, funny guy. Write that down. What, the guy behind me? And I, that's my way of, because I want to close by asking you you because you're a Canadian who has now spent decades in California. And as you're well aware, there is a... I don't know what we call this right now, but there are Canada and USA have a... It was almost trade war. There's threats from the president down there.

I just want to hear what you think of this and whether you think Canada's sovereignty is at risk here. Well, I know I don't think Canada's sovereignty is at risk unless I mean if you elect this is my opinion only. My opinion is if you elect Poliev, your sovereignty is going to be at risk. That's my opinion. Not that anyone else who's running is going be the bargain of a lifetime either. But I think you start going down that Harper rabbit hole more. And you elect that dweeb who has absolutely not a single idea in his head about anything that robot... pardon me, pardon me, I do go on. I mean, this is, you know, when the big problem right now with government in Canada is if you had a job and there were,

let's say, conservatively, a half a million to a million people who every day screamed, fuck you, at you, while you were doing your job and told you what a shitty job you were doing even when you were doing your job fairly well. What kind of a person wants a job like that? This is the problem. So the people, the right people, the good people, the people who should be in government, they aren't there

because they don't wanna get fucked by this constant, constant vilification, crucifixion of every little thing they do and it doesn't matter what it is. Doesn't matter what it is. You took your kid to the beach. Well, how could he take his kid to the beach when there's indigenous people walking around?

You know, literally, it doesn't matter. The courage to be a leader in this climate is courage I cannot fathom. So the best people are not running anymore because they're smart. And it also allows the worst people to get a toehold on power. And that's the biggest problem I see.

I don't think, uh, is the U S no Trump is all Trump is all dick and bluster. That's all he is. You know, uh, Trudeau said, uh, okay, we'll, we'll, we'll do this, which they'd already agreed to do. And he went, oh, okay, fine. Right. And you won't hear about the tariffs again. I bet you promise because I feel the promise, but I okay, fine. Right. And you won't hear about the tariffs again. I bet. You promise?

Because I feel the- No, no, no promise. But I bet. I mean, unless he really needs to mask something else. Cause everything he does is a- Distract. Right. Yeah.

It's a, we're trying to get a, we're trying to get a Nazi, you know, handling the children's education department this week. So we got to do something crazy to them. So nobody notices that. Right. So it's like that. Uh, I know, I don't think they'll threaten candidates.

It won't be a mere matter of, uh, marching. Ha ha ha. Like Thomas Jefferson said, I did, uh, a gentleman at the New York Times put together a pretty good video. I was watching yesterday in which he was which his advice was to not believe him and he explained kind of what you just did there which is all this rapid chaos is just meant because you can only process so many ridiculous things at once so you keep moving the sticks and then you don't pay attention to the fact they're dismantling the government of the United States of America and what Musk is doing with the 20 something year old tech

bros and all of that. So I get all that, but this whole notion of don't believe them falls apart when let's face it with one stroke of the pen, Donald Trump can put a 25% tariffs and devastate the economy of the country I live in here. So with one... Yes, he can. But you can also... Your country can retaliate. Yes. Your country can... Your country... You're not without resource. You're not... you have to make sure that he knows that he doesn't, he doesn't do it without consequence.

And if you want to get into a let's tank our economy's war, okay. What you do in the interim, to my mind, is you prepare in case he does do it again. You prepare, you prepare, you prepare. And there's a lot of by Canadian stuff going on. Um, but they got to get, I mean, Canada is getting very close to oligarchy if not there as well, and you got to get a hold on that. You gotta, you got to start. You got to start backing that away. I mean, the idea that an Ontario Prime Minister would

deliberately try to make health care fail in order to bring in private health care, my God, premier. Yeah, Doug Ford, unthinkable, unthinkable when I was young. Well, I'll be voting later this month for my local MPP and we have an opportunity. And my fear on that front is he'll win another majority regardless of what I think in South Etobicoke here. Yeah, I know, my fear too. And you mentioned your sovereignty is not at risk

unless, but that unless that you left us with, later this year we will be going to the polls federally and we'll have a new liberal leader. And Pierre Poliev is, you know, advanced polling is doing very well. And my concern is we'll end up with a majority for Doug Ford here provincially and we'll end up with Pierre Poliev in the Conservative Party having a majority federally. And I'm with you. I feel that our sovereignty is absolutely at risk with the Conservative Party having a majority federally. And I'm with you. I feel that our sovereignty is absolutely at risk with the Conservative Party of Canada ruling for.

I would have to agree with that. I hope I hope it doesn't come to that. But yep. What a joyous conversation, John, we started, you're going blind. And now we're all fucked. Two, two Jews walk into a bar. No, I'm kidding. Um, the, um, listen, anytime a guy can do the Toronto Mike podcast, he knows he has achieved a pinnacle. If you do it twice, man, you're, you're at show businesses. If you do it twice, man, your show business is absolute peak. The Bad Piano Player podcast, we'd love to hear from you.

Guelph Little Theater, January the 28th. No, February, you got the wrong month. Pardon me, February the 28th, post-election blues day. Come on out, I mean, where else are you to spend it? Come on out to Guelph. We're going to have a great show. We're taping a new album. Your Laughs will be on tape for the rest of your life, your children's lives, their children. Come on. Another great conversation. Love this so much. So the last two things I'll leave you with is one, you John are a rare FOTM, that means friend of Toronto, Mike, you know this, but you're now a rare FOTM who has been in the basement,

but only appears on my podcast via Zoom. That's- That's rare. That's extremely rare. And my last ask for you on our way out here is if you live in California, if you're walking down the streets and you see number 99, the great one, Wayne Gretzky, can you please kick him in the shins for me? Yeah, I'll go you one better.

I'll have my dog attack him. Thanks for this, John. Gracie kill. Recording stopped. And that brings us to the end of our 1629th show. Go to torontomic.com for all your Toronto Mic needs, whatever they may be. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto's Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all Wednesday when my special guest is Scott Dobson. Music I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star I'm gonna be a star

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