Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jon Pole: Toronto Mike'd #803

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

Mike chats with Jon Pole about his years working for CFRB in the early 90s, how he came to own several radio stations, his recent role at NEWSTALK 1010, hosting The Night Side with Jon Pole for stations in Montreal and Windsor, how he was fired by Bell Media, and how he would have done that differently.

Welcome to episode 803 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. CDN Technologies, your outsourced IT department. Contact Barb. She's Barb at cdntechnologies.com. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com.

Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majewski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is John Pohl. I love that you do all, I think everyone would think on a podcast,

you would edit all that in afterwards, but no, you're doing it live to tape, so to speak. I even refer to it as live to tape even though there's apparently no tape in the mix here no but yeah i always since day one i do all my musical elements and everything it's it's completely live and as you'll learn i won't edit a stitch of this so excellent that's probably better for both of us right i mean i suppose obviously this hasn't happened but in the um in the pandemic era, as I call it, I've moved a lot of episodes to Zoom. Previous to that, I actually insisted that my guests

come to my home studio or whatever. So I'm sure there will be a time, because I've had it with clients of mine where we're recording. This happened yesterday on Dana Levinson's podcast. Our guest, the unstoppable Tracy Schmidt, who's like an inspiring, amazing story. Her internet in Ottawa just conked out

for like 20 minutes. Like, so, you know, so assuming that technical things like that don't happen, I don't plan to ever edit the show. It's nice to have the choice. Right, right. And we are live on Facebook. So, I mean, they'll get the real deal here.

But as you know, anyone who's watched a live stream knows, the podcast is the same damn thing. So, but how are you doing, buddy? Nice to finally meet you. Nice to meet you as well. I am doing just perfect. I can't complain. Everything in the world is pretty decent. So I'm not going to be someone that pisses and moans and complains. I will be happy when the pandemic's over. But all in all, things are good with me. It's great to be here. I'm a big to be someone that pisses and moans and complains. I would be happy when the pandemic's over. But all in all, things are good with me. It's great to be here.

I'm a big fan of the podcast. I only have big fans of the podcast on the podcast. That's my secret. Makes sense. But no, thanks for listening. I love to hear it because sometimes you're right. I'll have a guest on and I can tell within five minutes that they don't know what they're in for because they've never listened. And it's nice to know when I have a guest on who gets what's going on here. So that's awesome. Thanks

for doing that. And whereabouts? Go ahead. So where do you want to start? Well, I want to first I want to find out just so we have an idea. Where in the world are you right now? Because here we are zooming in. Like, where are you? So I live in Renfrew, Ontario, and Renfrew, Ontario is about 50 minutes from my driveway. I could be at the Corral Center or whatever the hell they call it where the Senators play. Canadian Tire Center, I think. Is that what it is now? I can't keep track. I think so.

And that's in Kanata. That is in Kanata. Yes. Right. Correct. Okay. So this is really going to be a dumb question but where are you in the world like are you anywhere near something like like a pembroke or am i going am i way off base here yeah so renfrew is maybe the easiest way to

say it halfway between ottawa and pembroke okay my my many moons ago i had a boss uh who was from pembroke and he would always tell me about how it's Hockey Town, Canada. This was the big thing. And I'm like, okay, I know it's like a big military base, I guess. is a big hockey town. They've won a lot of junior a championships. And the most famous thing as of late is that Sheldon Keefe owned the Pembroke Lumber Kings and took them to the, uh, the championships and my radio station in Pembroke. Uh, we always work closely with Sheldon and the team at the Lumber Kings throughout all those, those glory years. Oh, radio station in Pembroke. So you're right where to start with you. So I'm going to actually start, I'm going to start not with you at all. So I want to thank David Drolet. He's a listener of Toronto Mike because he made a great contribution. He became a patron. So just to let listeners know, there is a patron patreon.com slash Toronto Mike, if you want to contribute. So I just want to thank

David Drolet. I'm going to mail him some stickers from sticker you, uh, some great Toronto Mike stickers that he's interested in. So thank you very much. A shout out to David. There's another note I got when I said John Pohl was going to be on the podcast from a great guy. I remember talking to this guy like when he was just starting out and it was just a great conversation.

His name is Colin Teske. Yes. So I'll read Colin's note for you. It's very kind here. Hey, Mike. I like it. Hey, Mike. I hope you're safe and healthy.

Thank you, Colin. I am safe and healthy. Loving all the pods these days. I saw that you're planning on having John Pohl on the show. He was the first guy to hire me in the business and make sure you ask him

about couch bombing. Now, I understand that's an inside reference from Peterborough days. So tell us, tell me what the heck couch bombing is, and then you can address Colin. He's listening now. First of all, let me talk about Colin Teske. So Colin Teske, I go and speak at Algonquin college every year and colin is one of their bright shining stars and we're launching what uh was a sports radio station first fm sports radio station in canada in peterborough because we bought a radio station that was a christian radio station

and within the guides of the license the only thing we could do with it other than christian music was to do all talk so we did did sports. So we had the Peter repeats, the Leafs, the Jays, and we built, built this team. And Colin Teske was one of the young guys we hired. And he co-hosted the morning.

I did the morning show because we didn't have budget for anything else. So I did the morning show. Colin was there. Another guy named Jordan Mercia, who still works for us. And Colin was very heavy in Pete's games and did other stuff. Excellent broadcaster.

I don't know how he is not on TSN or Sportsnet because he's a good looking guy. He's smart. He's funny. And that kid knows sports in and out. So shout out to Colin Teske. Couch bombing, I'm not going to discuss, Mike. You can, I, couch bombing became a thing on the

show we did because one day i don't know it came up in a text or something and i googled it and i immediately said okay don't google couch bombing which of course people immediately did right oh jesus my my google started googling it um don't google that. Yeah. If you want to know, you Google it. Don't blame me. I stand by that. I'll have to Google that one later. Don't,

don't, don't Google it. Okay. Yes. That's, that's, that's actually a great tip. If you ever want somebody to do something,

just tell them not to do it. Exactly. It's the first thing they're going to do. I still remember we got, we got a complaint from a, from a guy that was like, you told me not to do it, but I knew you wanted me to do it.

And then I did it and I'm disgusted by your show. I'm like, but I didn't do it. I told you not to do it. Okay, my friend, John. So I'm thinking, okay, I need to talk to you and this will come shortly, but I need to talk to you about My Broadcasting Corporation because you're the president and co-founder

of My Broadcasting Corporation, which explains these stations you keep referencing that you own, which is kind of an amazing story unto itself. But of course, I need to talk to you about, you know, what happened with Nightside and the Bell Media cuts that you were caught up in a big wave there. And we need to talk about that.

And people might know you from News Talk 1010. So if you don't mind, I'm going to go back. Sure. And you tell me if this is where it starts. But you were at, at the time time we didn't call it News Talk. It was simply CFRB, but this is early 90s. Am I right? Is that where you sort of?

Yeah, I left working at CFRB. I started there when I was 18 and I left just before the first season of the Toronto Raptors because I had done a lot of work with Mike Inglis with the world championship of basketball, right? The precursor to Raptors. We just, so broad black was my guest for 800 and 801. And we literally just talked about that,

that precursor to the Raptors arriving. Cause Ron black was involved as well. So it's funny. We just talked about that, but yeah. Yeah, no. So I don't know what that time period is.

That's why I bring it up. 92 to 95, I think, is your CFRB era around there. Yeah, so I worked there. I was a producer, a tech guy. I lucked out because at that time, it was owned by Standard Broadcasting. And I always tell everyone, like my radio career,

I've been lucky because the person that owns the radio station is always in the radio station. So Gary Slate, even though standard broadcasting was this big conglomerate, he was in the building. So he would, I always tell the story when I got, when I got started there, everyone said, look, Gary's in the building. You've got to understand when you work here, Gary's in the building. And I was 18. So I was dumb. And I was like, okay, I'm always going to be on the lookout for Gary. And there was this guy in the sales department named Gary, and he always wore a suit. So I always assumed he was Gary Slate. Oh, that's funny.

So like every time I see him like, Hey, Gary, how you doing? And he'd be like, Hey, how you doing? I'm like, good. But then there was another guy, the way that at that time the mix and CFRB were set up, mix was on one side, CFRB was on the other. But then there was like this long hallway where they would meet at a like cafeteria kind of like, you know, kitchen thing. I'd always be in the kitchen and this other guy would come in who I didn't know who he was, but he dressed like I dressed.

He had like jeans on and cool t-shirts. And I'd be like, Hey man, do you see the receptionist out front? She is smoking hot. He'd be like, yeah, she's pretty hot. Like we talk about a whole bunch of things you should never talk about. That's funny. So flash forward to our Christmas party where, you know, somebody, whoever the morning person at the

time was you know it might have been tom rivers or one of those guys is up there emceeing it and they're like okay let's bring gary up here for a few words so i'm looking at this gary that's a salesperson with his suit on and i'm waiting to watch him walk to the stage, which he doesn't do because he's not Gary Slate. And then I hear from the stage the voice of the guy that I kind of shoot the shit with. And I turn around, I'm like, oh, no, that's Gary Slate. Yeah. That's so Gary and I always had a like, I don't know if Gary knows who I am, because my transition of Gary Slate was I went from. Hey, cowboy. Like like, Hey cowboy.

Then I became, Hey John, like he actually referenced my name. And like, before I left, I went, I went back to, Hey cowboy. So I don't know where I sit. That's amazing. And I feel like that was Tom Rivers. And I feel like my client, I have a client, uh, Larry Fedorek's a client of mine. And Larry was there at the time. Yep. And I, and is it possible that Carla Collins is involved in this somehow? Yeah, so when I worked there originally it was Tom Rivers

and Carla and Larry doing the morning show. And then I think Tom left and it was I think Larry stayed and Rob Christie came in. Sounds about right. It's funny because Carla's also a client but it's funny because I grew up listening to Tom Rivers on CFTR. That was like my show when I was young. But go ahead. I was like, I was always super intimidated and he left. And

I was the guy in the building that I like, again, I look back on it now and go like when you're that guy in the building, it was a pain in the ass. But now I look back and go greatest time because I was the guy that I became kind of the jack of all trades for both stations so like when they were going to do the morning show live for somewhere for the mix i would go with them and i would produce it all on site um i remember they brought chris christie or i keep chris christie rob christie in and this was going to be like the next big thing in toronto morning radio rob Christie, who was a very nice guy. And they brought me into help the first few shows. And I remember,

or maybe their guy was sick. I can't remember, but I remember being in there and it should, this should be a scene in a movie. Rob Christie liked to run his own board, which was odd. Right. So I would just get the commercials and things ready for them and,

you know, kind of just hover around and do stuff. And at the beginning of the show, again, this should be in a movie, he turned to me and said, he handed me a snare drum. And he said, when we say something funny, hit the snare drum. And halfway through the show, he's like, you haven't hit the snare drum. I'm like, yeah. And then I remember he said this too he turned around halfway through the show and he said john i'm gonna tell you this right now we have so many

bits this morning like we have so much we have so much content we should call roger rick and maryland and give them some of our content and i said actually that would be a great bit like we should do that that would be awesome right uh we didn't do that though and bruce barker was there too and uh he was doing sports okay he worked for me for a while too yeah i know bruce barker of course because he had an affiliation with the humble and friend show uh at some point and and i produced their show but we'll actually get into that later it's just funny to hear about these days but you're so it's you're on cfrb i know that is it too is it too is it sorry st claire and uh young street st claire yeah right because when humble howard go ahead go ahead i'll

give you a perspective of the error so when i got there wally crowder was doing the morning show still playing music right and jane houghton was there uh john stall marlene oliver andy berry uh ed needham at night and john oakley like think of that lineup that's an incredible lineup of talent you're absolutely can you and here's that's a name you dropped there that uh you don't hear much about but i mean i have all these conversations with mark weisblatt for example uh where you know he talks about ed needham and can you just tell us a little bit about ed like working with ed needham so working with Ed Needham is, Ed was a, Ed taught me a lot. He taught me a lot.

There used to be the bar across the street. I don't know what it was called. It was called Chandler's when I was there and it had the rooftop patio. We went over there one day, Ed and I, after the show. And he said, John, I want to teach you the most important thing. Most important thing is, fuck you factor. I'm like, and of course, I course i'm like 19 i'm like i don't know what that is ed he's like here's what it is you need to be so secure in what you do and you're so good at what you do that when the boss comes to you and asks you to do something you can turn to them and go

fuck you and he goes when you have gotten to that point that's when you'll be successful and of course like like for me i was like okay that's just a crazy man talking but flash forward so he had rules ed had rules yeah like only there was two guys that could do his show dave ruel and me and he literally said if dave ruel's not sitting in that chair john pole should be sitting in that chair. And Richard Surrett was the producer. Oh, right. Richard Surrett. Because he worked with John Oakley.

Because he worked with John Oakley. He actually worked with Ed before he worked with John Oakley. Right. Okay. So one day we're standing in the hallway. And this is why this sort of gets to where we're going, I think. Ed says to me, John, you should get into radio sales. That's where all the money is. John, those guys, they get Contra, they get suits, they go lunches. They,

you know, Gary takes them to the Bahamas. Like you got to get into sales. And I look at Ed now, Ed by contrast works four days a week. They fly him to and from Florida, put him up in Toronto while he's here and pay him a whole boatload of money. And I turned to Ed and say, well, Ed, I could handle your job. Meaning like, Hey, well, you've got a pretty good too. Right. But Ed being the surly man that he was and is, uh, cause he's still alive. Um, he looked at me, he goes, you think you can do my job? I said, well, Ed, that's not what I said. He goes, no, you just said I, he goes, you think you can do my job? I said, well, that's not what I said. He goes, no, you just said I got it easy. You think you can do my job?

And I said, yeah, okay, fine. I can do your job. He goes, okay, you're doing the show tonight. And the program director was standing right there who now works for me. And Ed looked at the program director and said, look, John's doing my show today. And he said, Ed, it's your show. You know, I don't mess with your show. So Ed's like, fine, you're doing the show and i was like okay so i i'm like i walk into the control room and richard's

there and dave is there and brent coppin who just passed away was there right you know my guys ed told me to do the show what am i going to talk about and everyone immediately said the follow all of them john i'm not getting involved in this i'm not getting involved with this right so i i thought back to that conversation where ed said look you gotta be able to tell people to fuck you and i thought you know what i'm not backing down to him he he's trying to get me to say ed i can't do it so i walked into master control i sat down behind the mic ed ed was sitting in master control and he he comes up to the the board and he presses the talk bat button he goes you just let me know when you need me and i'll come in and save you wow and uh so he used to always start the show with the william tell overture you know

so that comes on and i come on and i'm like i was just like screw it i'm doing it and i come on i'm yelling and screaming i'm like ed's not here let me tell you and i explained the story on the air that i just told you. And I said, look, here's the thing. No one in this building will help me. I have nothing to talk about except one thing. Together, Toronto, let's prove Ed Needham wrong. If you would like to tell Ed how wrong he is, call me right now.

And I can tell you, Mike, I don't drink a lot. I've never done drugs. But I would imagine that drugs feel like what it felt like when I looked down at the phone lines. Because at that time, I think we had 16 lines. And literally, they lit up like a Christmas tree. Immediately. Every line. Jammed.

And we went on. We went on like after the half hour. So after the half hour, once it got going, now everybody wanted in on it. And Brent Coppin, at that time, the half hour, once it got going, now everybody wanted in on it. And Brent Coppin at that time, the news person always threw it back to Ed. They'd be like, and now back to the Ed Needham show. So he goes,

and now back to the Ed, the John Paul show. And at that, by that point, Ed had moved himself into the studio with me. And then he was like, okay, good.

You proved your point. You're good. You're solid. I'm going to take my show back over. But that for me was that moment where I was like holy shit this i gotta do this this is like i walked out of that studio and keep in mind ed was on from seven to ten and i walked out of the studio there's no one in the building and i'm walking down the hall like a zombie going i don't know how i feel right now but it's the best i've ever felt in my life.

If only there had been social media and stuff. And then the next day I was off on his show again, it was back to normal. Oh, that's, that's, so that's amazing. That's yeah. He felt that rush as they say. Yeah, it was great. And also I would say the other part of it, I mean, Ed was great and working. I got to work on Ed's's final show which we did from the chicken wing place louise barn grill and uh we did that and like global news came down and the national like everybody was there when ed was retiring and i was like sitting right beside ed when he retired and that that was a huge uh that was a huge thing for me but what was also huge is when i wasn't working with ed i was working with john oakley. And John Oakley was, to me, I don't think Oakley gets enough credit, especially for those people that listened to him in the 90s

really know how great John Oakley is. Smart, funny, talented. And John was great because he let me do my thing and he let Richard Surrett do his thing. And the three of us together, like we just created this insanity that was just so much fun. Now, let me ask you just one more name here, because I believe he just passed away. Wayne McLean. Was he there?

Yes. Wayne McLean was not there. But here's my connection to Wayne McLean okay so my dad years ago owned a radio station that Wayne McLean tried to buy because Wayne McLean was famous in southwestern Ontario and he didn't end up buying the station from my dad but I met him then and I would have been I don't know maybe 12 years old or something so like he was just a guy that came to the radio station kind of thing. But of course, when I went to CFRB, Wayne had just left. Okay. To go to CKLW to launch the power of talk. So I knew who Wayne was.

And I also knew him because like, I think when my dad lives in Southwest Ontario. So I think Wayne, like my dad, when I was working at CFRB is like, Hey, I'll call up Wayne. Maybe we can, you know, have a beer or something. So like I met Wayne there and I also went down and Wayne gave me a tour of the CKLW studios in that. So like, I didn't know him very well, but if you talk to a guy like Jimmy Koshon,

who is a guy you should absolutely have on your show. Done. Jimmy, do you know Jimmy? Yeah, we, well, well through email and twitter we know each other okay like jimmy koshan probably can tell more great toronto radio stories than anyone but uh so jimmy used to produce wayne show and so i would bring up wayne mclean every once in a while like how crazy was he and then jimmy would go on for an hour about let me tell you the crazy things this guy used to do. Yeah, so he left just before I got there. Okay, okay, I got that.

Now, because he was a former top 40 DJ prior to his CFRB years. Yeah, he was very much like I would compare him to, what's that guy's name? Robert Downey, No, not Robert. Morton Downey Jr.? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. That guy.

Yeah, smoking guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like that's who Wayne McLean drives me, reminds me of. Like just he's like crazy like that. Oh, okay, awesome. Now, so help me connect these dots. So you were told to go into sales because,

and like how do you go from these three years at CFRB to president and co-founder of My Broadcasting Corporation? Like, help me connect those dots. Okay, so I'm working in radio. So my dad has a radio station in Renfrew years ago, an AM radio station. He sold it in the late 80s. Like, I was, so he sells it, I'm maybe 14 years old okay up until that point in my life i had no interest in radio i was doing everything i was doing was like kojiko your tv stuff i was interested

in tv so he sells it and the guys that buy it call me up one day and say would you come and work here because you know how all this stuff works and i I'm like, yeah, sure. Because all my buddies at that time were doing jobs that no longer exist, like pumping gas, bagging groceries. And I was like, hey, I can go work at the radio station and play New Kids on the Block. It's way cooler than that. So I went and did that. And I really started to like radio then

because number one, I was getting paid, which never happened with my dad. And number two, I realized the difference between TV where in TV, I had to depend on all these people, whereas in radio, I could do it myself. So that's when I really immersed myself in radio. So I'm working at that station now. It gets bought and sold. The people that own it now on the radio station in Pembroke, which we now compete against,

they go, hey, you should come work in Pembroke. So I go work in Pembroke. Uh, my parents then decide to move to Southwestern Ontario. Cause that's where they're originally from. I moved back from my last year, highest school, which I did in Wallaceburg. I work at CHOK in Sarnia. And, um, from there I go to Ryerson and Humber and I work at News Talk 1010 and CFRB or CFRB are in the mix. Right. And I'm doing that. And now I'm done school. And I have a conversation with Gary Slate. And Gary was always very nice to give me his time. And he just I had to say, I said, Gary, what am I going to do? I'm done school. I you know, I'm this jack of all trades. I realized what I do here. It doesn't exist anywhere else. Like they sent me to one of the greatest,

they sent me to Porta Plata Dominican Republic with John Oakley for a week. And we did a week's worth of shows live. Like, you know, when you're at a resort and have a show every night, every night, our show was the show. It was crazy. Wow. So I do that. Steve couches now the boss at CFRB. Steve and I, I think Steve really thought we were going too far like steve's a more reserved guy and he's a news guy so he was i think he was kind of like hey it's getting a little rocky over there john you gotta dial it down i also got in trouble for a clip i played once which i didn't i was like i'm so i'm not apologizing for it the clip was

funny um so i just realized like i'm'm not going to be around here long. Like this isn't what I want to be doing. So I had this conversation with Gary and Gary basically said, look, here's the deal. In order for you to actually be here in Toronto, you've got to go do something else because if I'm going to hire a promotions director, it's not going to be you. It's going to be my guy from Calgary or Edmonton.

You know, you're not going to be, if I'm going to hire a sales guy, I'm going to hire someone with sales experience. So like, which I appreciate it because that made sense to me. So I went to Chatham, Ontario as the promotions director. And that was owned by a guy named Carl Varoba, good guy. And I started in promotions and within six months or like, you got to go into sales. You're just, you understand radio, you radio you love radio go into sales so I went into sales and I became good at sales and I did really great there had lots of fun got an opportunity to go to Owen Sound to Bayshore Broadcasting uh to be their sales manager so I went and did that and then I got recruited by a company that basically consults radio groups across the country and they're like hey come work for us and i did that which was great because i got to work with you know chorus and uh jim

pattison and all a new cap and all these companies where i went in and helped them generate sales right so throughout all of that time uh my partner in nbc andrew d, he's friends with my dad. They're buddies. And he lives in Renfrew. And throughout all that time that I'm doing that, every time I see Andrew when he's with my dad, Andrew goes, how can we put a radio station in Renfrew? Because my dad's radio station got sold and sold again. They eventually turn it off.

It no longer exists. They put one big FM in Pembroke. So he lives in Renfrew. He's like, hey, we don't have a radio station anymore. So every time he sees me, it's like, well, the technology's not there. Then the technology was there, but we didn't know how to sell it. Well, now we're at a point where I have sales experience. I understand technology. I understand programming. And my wife who we went to high school together, she's a teacher. We're moving back to Renfrew because I'm traveling all over the world it doesn't matter where I live and I was living in Kitchener at the time so uh we moved to Renfrew so one day I'm in Renfrew and my wife

we announced we're gonna have our first child and I think to myself hey getting on planes and spending two weeks in Kingston or Lethbridge or wherever it is. That was a ton of fun when I was single, but now I'm married. My kids are coming. I want to be at home. So I'm like, I think I'm going to apply to put a radio station here. And I just said, I'm not going to do it without Andrew because every time I've seen him, he's asked me, how do we do it? So I feel like I'd be stealing his idea. So I drove over to his office. I said, Hey, here's the deal. I'm going to start this radio station. Um, do you want in? He's like a hundred percent. Great. And I said, here's the condition. If we don't agree, we don't do it. Every that's our, our rule. And we live by

it and die by it. If we don't agree, we don't do it. And he's like deal. And we've never not agreed. And we've never said, no, we're not doing it. We've always agreed. So we put Renfrew on the air, huge success. And immediately people in Pembroke are like, hey, how can we get one of those stations? So we apply and we put one on in Pembroke. And then we just sat down and said, okay, let's build something. We've got this thing. So we went and built this group where we went to places that nobody else wanted to serve and we serve them. And along that journey, which started in 2004, we, um, you know, we bought stations in Peterborough, we bought stations in Coburg, we bought stations in Simcoe, we bought stations in Kincardine, and we built out this group that is what it is today. And, um,

it's been a fabulous fun ride and, you know, you learn a lot of cool stuff along the way. Well, okay. Amazing. Cause I think some people who know you learn a lot of cool stuff along the way well okay amazing because i think some people who know you only from you know bells airwaves because you never discussed mbc on bells airwaves is that right like this you kept these worlds i never did okay uh every once in a while like i still remember the first day i went in uh because so how I end up at CFRB is I'm given the, the hall of fame I wanted to be in was the hockey hall of fame. Like that's what the,

but I, I got put in the Humber radio hall of fame, which is not really a close second, but it's the only one I have. But I also, I want to shout out, uh, FOTM Evelyn Macko is in that hall of fame.

If I remember correctly. Yes. Now, Evelyn Macko was inducted the same night as me. Okay, that's funny because I do remember I've spoken pre-COVID times. I would actually bike to Humber College and speak to classes about podcasting, this new fandangled thing we'll talk about later. I remember the Hall of Fame, and I remember seeing Wacko Macko on the list there. So you were inducted the same night. That's amazing.

Same night. So on that night, it's it's me, Sid Sixero, Evelyn Macko and someone else. And I feel terrible that I can't remember who the fourth person was because they were equally great. Wow. Because Sid made news recently because he's going to be a breakfast television guy. Yeah. So there's the big breaking up the tim and sid go ahead so i was super excited because i love evelyn macko like of heroes in broadcasting that i had not met evelyn macko was on that list because i listened to her on cftr 680 for years yeah me too and i felt when evelynlyn Macko gave me the news that I had the news. Like when she was done, I was like, I'm up to date.

Yeah. And she had an authoritative delivery. I distinctly remember. And then they did that. Do you remember they did that simulcast thing on CFMT for a while? So 680 would kind of do news hits on. Yeah, I never saw that, but I've seen clips of it. But that was when like, so all of a sudden you see, oh, there's Evelyn Macko and there's Dick Smythe, for example, would appear.

And it's like, oh, it's like because back in the day, we never knew what these radio people look like. Like pre-internet, unless you had a big ad campaign, like you'd see Tom Rivers on a big ad or something like that or whatever. We just had no idea. We just heard these voices and imagined. We just decided to imagine what they might look like. And then all of a sudden, oh, there they are. It was just interesting times. So at this ceremony, you have to get up and you have to do a little speech. Okay. So I got up and gave a little speech, which was very much a John Pohl speech. It was, you know, here's my story. Here's why it's great to be have been part of

Humber. Here's the crazy things I did when I was at Humber. It's cool to be here with Evan Mako. A couple of jokes, a couple of this, a couple of that. Thanks very much. Try the veal. And, you know, Evelyn gets up and says her thing. And Sid says his thing. And of course, because Evelyn's being inducted, the team from News Talk 1010 is there. So Mike Van Dixon's there and some of the other guys.

Okay. So afterwards, everyone's just kind of standing around talking. So I go up to Mike and say, hey, Mike, how you doing? John Paul, never met. And I sort of tell him the story I just told you about. Hey, I used to work at News Talk 1010. It holds a special place in my heart. Love the place, blah, blah, blah.

And then I said, have you ever need someone to fill in? You call me. And Mike's like, yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. I'll do that. Which I left thinking, oh, oh fuck he's full of shit he'll never do that like that's just that's exactly what i would say to someone like you know you see something like hey we should get coffee someday mike yeah yeah we should do that

and then you never do it right so that happened and then out of nowhere one day i got uh a note from mike saying um would you come in on the rush because the rush used to like when so john tory's running for mayor and the rush is now ryan with guests every day rotating guests right so they bring me in and i of course i don't know ryan because ryan started like it's possible ryan got a job at cfrb because i left like it was kind of almost, we almost overlapped. I left and they had to replace me with somebody. So I meet Ryan, who is a very likable guy, and we do the show. And I say all the crazy things that I say.

And afterwards, he's like, holy shit, that was a lot of fun, man. I'm like, I had a lot of fun too. And I thought, okay, that's it. That's it. We're done. So then they asked me another time to do it. And of course, I'm loving it. I'm like checking off the bucket list. That's it. We're done. So then they asked me another time to do it. And of course I'm, I'm loving it. I'm like checking off the bucket list, you know? Uh, and then Mike

calls me one day. He's like, I want you to fill in for Jim Richards. And at that time, Jim was on from one to four. Right. And I was like, look, cause he'd said, he goes, Hey, would you fill in for us if I had a spot? And I was like, sure. And I figured it'd be like, you know, Saturday two to four or something. I don't know. He's like, I need you to Jim Richards for two weeks. I'm like, that's like a real show with like real loyal fans. And so I was like, I was dumb. I was like, fuck. Yeah, I'll do that.

I can do that. And, uh, I got an Airbnb in Toronto. I'm like, I'm like told myself, I'm like, I'm going on vacation. Listen to me on the radio. We need the audience. Uh, and i went in and did it and had a blast and like just and of course their their staff immediately i think took to me because number one i like i fucking love being there because i love all those people

and i love what they do but more importantly i knew what i was doing like i understood the phone system i understood how the mic worked i understood how the mic worked. I understood how the talk back worked. When they said, hey, John, we need you to read something. I'm like, yeah, sure. Give it to me. I'll read like, like, whereas, you know, sometimes they get a host in there like, hey, we should bring someone over for CTV news who's never done radio before. Like they're smart, they're intelligent, but they don't know how all the other stuff works.

And if you work, if you're working with that person, it's frustrating. So I don't think it was ever frustrating working with me. I don't know that I was smart and intelligent, but the working with me was easy. So from that, literally Jim Richards has, I don't know, I don't, I think he has 50 weeks vacation now. He's been there so long. Like, I don't think he's there at all anymore. I don't know that answer.

Well, I know this is, that was the one name, like I got an initial list from insiders and he's there at all anymore. I don't know that answer. Well, I know that was the one name. I got an initial list from Insiders and he was not on the list. And then the show was gone. Then there was some rumor that he had an opportunity to do an overnight thing across the network, like a national overnight thing. And then he sort of removed 1010 from his bio,

I noticed, on social media. So I mean, it's inconclusive because I don't have a definitive that he's not with the company anymore but it doesn't look great for jim richards right now but i don't know definitively i exchanged comments with with jim uh and some of what you just said was sort of what he related to me i never heard the the final story of what was going to happen. Right. Um, my sort of take on it would be Jim Richards being on after the people that are before him makes no sense to me because he's more talented than the people before him.

Like that's just fact. he's a talented mofo. Like, I mean, I've been listening to him since five 90 days. Like he's just, he's just great. He's a great guy. And so, uh, so jim because he had so much vacation time i was filling in for jim all the time okay and uh then i filled and i'd fill it on the night side for barb right because sometimes

barb would go up and do jim so i'd do barb show uh i filled in i did evan solomon show a whole bunch of time i filled in for john moore did the morning show like that. Like Mike sent me, you know, he's like, Hey, do you think you'd be able to fill in for John Moore? I'm like, are you fucking with me right now? Like you're not seriously asking me the question. Like, can I do a, can I do morning radio in Toronto for a week? Sign me up. And so I did that.

And then out of nowhere, the guys in Montreal called and said, Hey, would you come in? Would you do what you do in Toronto for us? So I thought they meant like fill in once in a while. Right. That's not what they meant. in Montreal called and said, hey, would you come in? Would you do what you do in Toronto for us? So I thought they meant like fill in once in a while. Right. That's not what they meant. So for me, where I live right now

is exactly halfway between Toronto and Montreal. So whether I go to Toronto or go to Montreal, it doesn't matter. Right. And Montreal is a cool city. My family spent time there when I was growing up.

And like, so I love Montreal. And so I said, sure. So I ended up going down there and CJAD is very different than News Talk 1010. up and like so i love montreal and uh so i said sure so i ended up going down there and cjd is very different than news talk 10 10 like i always tell a story like when i was driving in the topic they were doing at noon on a whatever day it was tuesday uh the the montreal library is now going to loan out musical instruments which instrument would you borrow and i was like i don't think my show is gonna work on this radio station it's not really what i do and they were like no

we want you to do your show so i did and uh originally i did like a couple days a week and then next thing i know i was doing five days a week and i did it all from the studio i'm in not from this studio because i moved but some most of it recently from the studio and then i added um mike called and said because i was still filling in for toronto and so then what happened is anytime barb would go on vacation they would just run my montreal show and we'd be on both stations because the both shows are called nightside right they're both nights they're both called the nightside and i think they did that based on that idea of being able to do it uh which was fine uh because the show i took over in Montreal was called the exchange. And then they're like,

we want to call it the night side. So it mixes with Toronto. I'm like, okay, I don't care what you call it, call it whatever you want. It's your show. So I would do Barb show and my show together.

And then CKLW and Windsor picked up my show. So then I would do Montreal Windsor every night, Toronto, some nights and through that evolution uh 10 to 11 uh mike needed something so he's like hey would you do an hour for us after you're done in montreal so i was like i usually sit in my office for an hour afterwards and i had all the prep done so i'm like yeah sure so i did the poll position on news talk 1010 for i don't even like my linkedin says seven years i don't know how i don't know how all of that fits in in those seven years um so i would say it's probably it had to be a couple years anyway based on how many people

were upset when i wasn't there um so yeah so i did that and blast, had a great time. Here's the thing that I always think is funny, Mike. Yeah. I had full access, like key cards and everything, to News Talk 1010 and to CJAD 800. I'm like, I have more access to Bell Media radio stations than probably most Bell employees have. And I don't even work here. Oh, that's great. Okay, so we've got you, just to set the table here, we've got you hosting Nightside.

It's on Montreal's CJAD and it's on CKLW in Windsor as well. Sometimes when Barb's on vacation or not available, it would also be on 1010, News Talk 1010 in Toronto. You've got a poll position. It sounds like on News Talk 1010,

everything's honky-dory. So we pause here, okay? This is a good time to pause because I got lots of questions about what happens next. But I need to thank some partners who helped make this happen. They helped to fuel the real talk.

So John, when I do finally meet you in the flesh, hopefully at some point when we're all vaccinated and things start to return to some sense of normalcy, I have some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. Now you're in Ontario,

so you can actually get this at LCBOs. I see it all the time. And fantastic. And they're just, it's a family run shop. Actually, the 1010 people are very friendly with Great Lakes. Like every once in a while, my buddy there, Troy, will kind of tip me off. Okay, the 1010 people are going to do like a news talk brew. and he'd be like, yeah, John Moore is here and then Jim Richards would be there and the whole gang there. So, Agar would be there

and Ben Dixon would be there. So, shout out to Great Lakes. Fantastic partners. I'd have a lasagna for you if you were here. I'd give you, this is all the things you would get if you were here. A lasagna from Palma Pasta, also great partners of the program. We got to get you stickers.

I mentioned the stickers because David Drolet is going to get a mail from me with Sticker You stickers. They do stickers. All these decals behind me are from Sticker You. They've been amazing partners as well. Ridley Funeral Home have really stepped up. They're going to sponsor the program throughout 2021.

Love the people at Ridley Funeral Home. They've been pillars of this community since 1921. They're in New Toronto, which is 14th and Lakeshore here in South Etobicoke. Brad Jones, tremendous FOTM. So much love to Ridley Funeral Home. The newest sponsor is Mike Majeski. I call him Mimico Mike. He's been ripping up the Mimico real estate scene.

His motto is in the know in Mimico. And he certainly is. You can check him out realestatelove.ca. And Barb Paluskiewicz, she sent me this, you know, everyone's got a Yeti mic. So it's funny that this is a different Yeti. It's a Yeti. It keeps my coffee piping hot.

And she sent that over. But CDN Technologies are your outsourced IT department. So, for example, if NBC, not to be confused with NBC, but if my broadcasting corporation had a network and they needed to outsource IT, CDN Technologies are the people to talk to. And you can contact Barb and get an assessment done and chat her up about this opportunity. Barb

at cdntechnologies.com. Don't confuse Barb with Barb DiGiulio, who, of course, is a great FOTM, has been over here. We had a great chat. She's a lovely lady. And she was caught up in this wave of Bell Media cuts, which we need to kind of dissect here. Because, John, you were caught up in it.

So tell me, like, first of all, I think it's fascinating that you own a radio company. And then, essentially, you were just fired by, like, the a radio company and then essentially you were just fired by like the biggest radio company and and i need to know i guess i want to know because there's rumors around that it was a robocall so yes how the hell were you fired robo via robocall um i'll tell you exactly i will speak to the oh like i always viewed doing the shows as a passion like it was like you know some people play golf other guys do woodwork some people watch tv i don't do any of that i love radio right and i'm very lucky uh and and fortunate that my team at my broadcasting corporation we grew that company to a point where literally i was kind of getting in the way every day. Like the projects I was creating, they were like, Hey,

you know, things are running smooth. Like just relax, man. So I found myself with more time. So that's how I delved. You know, I kind of did, I wanted to do radio. So it was always a passion. It was never for money. I mean, they paid me, which shocks everyone, including me, but it was always for fun, but it was very weird that here I am as a president of a broadcasting company doing a show for a different one. It was never a problem for me. It was never a problem for Mike or Chris. I don't know if someone else had a problem with it.

If they did, they never mentioned it. But I was also a good employee because I never wrecked anything and I appreciated the equipment. Hey, who's Chris? Just you dropped a name. Oh, Chris Murray is the program director of CJD 800. Gotcha. Gotcha. So how I got fired, and I should say this based on what we just went through there, I was very clear with both Mike and Chris from the very first day where I said, look,

we have a very unique situation here, which we just described. I don't own this ball. I don't make the rules. You guys have jobs as program directors to make great programming for your audience. And if that doesn't include me, I will never be offended. I understand how the game works. You just have to let me know. I'll shake your hand and I will thank you because look, I'm just doing, I'm having fun. So if you need to do something for your business, no, I will never be angry at you. And everyone was cool with that. So flashback a couple of Sundays ago, I'm sitting with my wife and my email goes off and it is a invite to a conference call from a person I've never met before. Because of who I am, I know who he is, but I've never met him. And it just says business update.

And I turned to my wife and I said, there's going to be people fired tomorrow. And she said, how do you know? I'm like, because this guy who most of these people don't know, just got an email that said business update. She goes, well, maybe he just wants to introduce himself and talk about, I'm like, no, because good communicators put that in the email. They'll be like, Hey, I want to talk about this, this, and this tomorrow. Correct. Yeah. Business update means someone in HR told them don't say anything. So of course I'm sitting there. I'm like, you know, this doesn't sit well with me because number one, it's Sunday night and I'm with my family. It doesn't bother me because you know what? My mortgage is getting paid. My kids are going to university, but it bothers me because

I'm like, did they send this to anyone else? Like maybe they're just getting rid of me. Like maybe my time has come, which then I was kind of pissed because I was like, well, why didn't Chris just call me? Like, I don't need to have a minute. I don't even a meeting they just send me an email they wanted to um so i'm like maybe it's something different made me maybe my wife's right so 9 30 rolls around i hop on this call it's dead silent some a different guy comes on and goes we're gonna start things about minute here okay and uh then out of nowhere uh the guy who let everyone go for eastern quebec or whatever region he's in charge of comes on he goes hi i'm such and such this is what i do uh i've muted all your microphones there's numerous people on this call so then i

immediately know okay there's a lot of people and then i'm like i don't even know if i'm supposed to be on this call like did i get put on this because they had an email and no one checked it he's like i just want to let everyone everyone known the call your services are no longer needed uh bell media uh you know pandemic like literally one-liners and uh don't go on social media until you talk to someone in hr hr is going to be very busy because there's numerous people on this call so don't do anything on social media till you talk to hr otherwise you know we're you know it's bad you you still work for us whatever he said and then he goes i'm ending the call now done wow and that was about 90 seconds now i sitting in this exact room where i'm in right now burst out laughing because i was like

oh my god i feel like I'm on Saturday night live in a sketch about how, how big corporations fire people. Wow. And then I started to say, wait a minute, did he have a script where at the end HR wrote and call now, and instead of like ending the call, like a normal human being, he just read i'm ending the call now because i'm like no one ends a call like that that's really so then my phone blows up and immediately it's like all the people that used to be around me saying oh my god let's go let go it's bullshit whatever and i'm like oh me too and um then i was like okay now i feel like shit because i feel worried about them like first of all of all, I'm never worried about me. Right. And then I'm kind of angry because I'm like, hang on. This is my industry.

Like, I'm a radio guy. And this is how we're treating the people in our industry. This is bullshit. You don't treat people like this. So then I get an email later in the day saying, from Chris, saying, hey, John, can we have a call today at 1230? And I was like, so I emailed him back. I'm like, we can, but I was on the call this morning.

So he immediately calls me. He's like, Oh, you were on the call this morning. Like, yeah. He's like, Oh, they told me you weren't. I'm like, Oh, so there's no change. He's like, no, there's no change. Um, and he's like, sorry. And then he said all the things you should say. Sorry, I wanted to call you, but the rules were I couldn't and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, look, Chris, I get it. But it's while we're on the phone, let me just make something clear to you because others won't tell you this. And I will. How you guys, I don't know who was on that call. I have a rough idea, but how you guys dealt with it as a company is fucking embarrassing. I said, as a broadcaster, I'm going to tell you this right now. If I found

out that anyone on my team treated anyone that worked for us like that, I would fire them immediately because that's not how you do business. He goes, well, it was a pretty cold call. I'm like, you think I said like, and all the things I'm going to recommend are free. They don't cost money. Like how about you don't end the call with I'm ending the call now. How about, Hey, thanks for your service. Damn pandemic. Wish we didn't have to do this, but these are the changes we need to make any way we can be helpful. Reach out. Happy to help you. You guys are great broadcasters. I'm in a crappy position because this is my job, but thank you. And all how about that like and i said like you can get somebody a writer that works for bell media to write that better than i just said uh he's like

yeah no i get it sorry sorry man thanks all the best kind of thing so um that was sort of it and then i heard the the rumor i saw on twitter about it maybe being a like a voice track that's what i call it like a recording like that's not a live human speaking they're just playing some recording i i again i don't know this is fact but if you ask me my opinion as someone who knows the difference between live recordings and recordings as soon as someone said that i was like i think it was recorded wow if i had to bet I would bet it was recorded. Wow. Because there was no compassion.

There was no empathy. There were no pauses. Like a normal human being, like I don't know if you've ever let someone go. I have actually. Yeah. You just don't rifle through. You pause and you're like, hey, man, it's going to be good. You act like a human being.

There was none of that. So when I heard that rumor, I was like, yeah, I, I, I believe that to be true. And then when I saw what help it happened, like, so that happened in Montreal on the Monday. Right. So let me, like, I immediately people reach out to like Barb Julia was one of the first people that reached out and she was, Hey, I'm really sorry. You lost your show. That's bullshit. Like, you know, like, like I love people reach out to like Barb Julia was one of the first people that reached out and she was, Hey, I'm really sorry you lost your show. That's bullshit.

Like, you know, like, like I love listening to you. Like she said, all the things you'd want to hear. And you know, I said,

Hey, look, Barb, I hope they replace my show with your show because that would make like, I'm a radio guy. I get cuts. I get the pandemic. I get all that.

I get being part of a big corporation and using synergies and I get all that. So I'm like, Hey, Barb show was on all these stations. Yeah would make sense to me it wouldn't make me angry because barb's tremendous um then cut to the scene like i think we were monday we were the first and i think maybe news talk 10 10 was the wednesday oh yeah i know that the entire new yeah i guess it was the next day i don't know i know all first news i was receiving was that the entire news team had been chopped off essentially yeah same thing in montreal right and what what again this is where i don't know again my life is not disrupted like i get

time back to do other things um i was like god i feel bad for all these other people because not only are their lives horribly disrupted at the worst time in history, but they're extremely talented. Like when you look at the list, like if you just took CJD and news talk 10, 10, like I'm not talking about the guys out West, the guys out East, the people in the small markets, CTV, like just those people, like you're going to find a better newscaster than david mckee somewhere i don't think so you're gonna find a you're gonna find someone uh better than you know kim gettys i don't think so better than barb don't think so uh you know in montreal they had a reporter they let go shu yuli shu you is one of the best reporters i've ever worked with like if she

wants to work in one of my markets, I'd hire her in a second. I create a job for her. She, she would send me things when I was on the air, like, Hey, you should mention this. Or I would send her something from a listener saying, Hey, they're talking about this problem at this factory. The next day I'd hear it in the news. Like she's a great reporter. And like literally after she got fired,

she posted the story she was working on on her Facebook because the story was important to people. And I was like, like, how do you replace that person? Like there's only one of her and you had her. Like you not have any pride of ownership. Like these are people you should be proud are on your team, but clearly not so much. John, so many thoughts that I have a couple. First question I have is about the perceived hypocrisy. As I am just a consumer, I've never worked in radio.

You know, one week, Bell is all over their Let's Talk initiative, which has some great positive ramifications. It's taken away a lot of the negative stigma stigma around uh mental health challenges and illness fantastic right but you know this wave this marketing effort if you will uh seems it was like i don't know that was a week later or less than a week later that we hear about these robocalls to who knows how many people where i don I have, sadly, I've had to let people go in a previous life. I had to let people go. And I can tell you that I would never do it via robocall because we don't know how the person on the other end is receiving this news. This is a time where they need support. You know, this is a lot of people, you're in a great position where, like you said,

you can still pay your mortgage, your kids can still go to university. But is a lot of people, you're in a great position where, like you said, you can still pay your mortgage, your kids can still go to university. But for a lot of people who had been there a long time, this was their, you know, their source of income at a very tough time with the pandemic. And you need compassion and empathy and support during this transition because it can be devastating to your mental health. So what are your thoughts on this hypocrisy of these two things coming out of the bell media uh enterprise look let me i can give you a very clear observation from a guy who has built a company in broadcasting and over on my ledge i have 10 plaques because our company has been on the profit 500 Canada's fastest growing business list for 10 years, a decade. Hardly any other companies can do that. And they do it. They do that list by five-year revenue growth. So you, most companies fall off because the first year it's easy to

be great and it's easy the second year, but once you get into a rhythm, it's hard to stay on the list. So we're still on that list. So I say this from a position of a guy who actually understands how to win in this business. I think it is absolutely horrible that they handled it this way, particularly because of all the great things you mentioned about Bell Let's Talk Day. There's another thing to add to it. In Montreal, they went through, before Bell Let's Talk Day, they did a huge 75th anniversary celebration

for CJAD 800. And everyone at that radio station did a lot of extra things to salute the legacy that is CJAD 800. Like, people did extra podcasts and more reporting and went through archives and found photos. And almost all of those people kicked to the curb. And I said to myself,

this is horrible leadership to make all those people work hard to, to celebrate a birthday that let's be honest, it didn't need to be celebrated. Right. Like these managers knew this shit was coming and they made them like bell. Let's talk day. to celebrate a birthday that, let's be honest, it didn't need to be celebrated. These managers knew this shit was coming. And they made them, like, Bell Let's Talk Day is a great thing.

I can't say anything bad about it. But from being on the inside of it with Bell, it's a lot of work. Like, all those producers coming up with interviews and trying to tell a story all day long that doesn't copy the same story as the show before and maybe shows the light at the end of the tunnel and someone else tells a terrible story. It's a very emotional day.

You put your staff through those two things in a row to basically take the bulk of them and kick them out. That's poor leadership, period. And I will go further and say that I believe when I compare the results my company is having to what I see is being reported by Bell. Bell has a and I'm not talking about the guys in the station because as Mike and Chris, those guys couldn't be better to me. They were great to me and I never had a bad moment. But I'm talking about the corporate direction.

People that are saying, hey, let's take this machine and let's do something great with it. Um, they're blaming to me all their failures on what I would call bullshit. I wouldn't X, I would not accept their failures in my company. My staff wouldn't accept their failures in my company. Like when they say English radio lost $3 million last year, like, first of all, Bell should be the kind of company as an investor, Bell should be the kind of company that says, Hey, we can eat 3 million. Like we're in a pandemic. We get it. Or they should be the kind of company that goes, Hey, 3 million divided by 80 English radio stations is $40,000. Let's solve that problem because I could solve that problem. I could go find 40 grand in my market if I had to. I could do that. And I know they do it in

their markets. So they have a sales leadership problem that they're not focused on growth. They're focused on the wrong part of their business. They're focused on trying to make these changes. Now, these changes they made, there are some of them as a broadcaster I understand, and I could even argue that there are good reasons behind them, and maybe they would work. As a radio broadcaster, there's a bunch of them that I just don't get. Like running the CTV News at 6 o'clock in Ottawa, which is where they tested it. In Ottawa, it makes sense. Like, let's use common sense for a second. Why does it work in Ottawa, which is where they tested it. In Ottawa, it makes sense. Like, let's use common sense for a second.

Why does it work in Ottawa? Well, because in Ottawa, the large majority of people work for the federal government. And the federal government shuts down at about four o'clock. So by six o'clock, there isn't any traffic on the roads. Mike, is there traffic on the roads in Toronto at six o'clock? Yes, there is. Okay, I'm going to speak for Montreal. Hell yes.

So now all those people that are used to listening to the rush or aaron rand in montreal now get tv news i'm gonna tell you what happens because i live outside ottawa and when i'm in ottawa at six and the tv news comes on cfra when i'm a listener a fan i change the station because i'm out. And I listen to your podcast. I listen to Humble and Fred. I listen to, you know, Shea 106. I listen to my radio stations, but I ain't listening to that. So that idea that they have ain't going to work. It's never going to work.

And whoever came up with it is based in Ottawa, and they're basing it on what's happening in Ottawa, which is not the same as Toronto, Montreal. And I could probably go on for like two hours. It just seems like this is an awfully big company to be making such stupid decisions. Like, I guess it just baffles me because we haven't even talked about

the $122 million labor subsidy, which you'd think there'd be some social contract where maybe, you know, you talked about the $ 40,000 per station or whatever, but I don't know what your thoughts are on, uh, Bell taking that 122 million, uh, you know, because the labor says it says a subsidy during the, uh, pandemic,

and then turning around in these cuts. And we've only kind of touched on some of the cuts. Like it's actually far, far, far, you know, like we haven't even talked about like, cause at some point I want to tell a little Humble and Fred story, which does tie into Funny 820, which is a funny, and that ties into TSN, not the Toronto one, but in Vancouver and Winnipeg.

But I'll get to my story soon. Again, I look at it as, again, this is my opinion. Look, I'm in a small town. I run a bunch of small town radio stations i fully understand there's probably gonna be some people like oh your stations suck don't like your music uh you ran a promo once i didn't like there's gonna be all that i don't care here's what i'll tell you about my company uh everyone that works for me is treated with respect everyone that works for me like let me tell you what we've been doing in the pandemic

just to give you sort of the yin to the yang okay my focus in the pandemic mike has been on my staff because my staff i i recognize they have more anxiety than ever before and their jobs are harder than ever before and my staff has been killing it just killing it news like we have more i have more news people than you stock 10 10 that's wow um so we we've been doing a great job so what have i been doing well i've been trying to figure out how do we do pay raises i've been trying to figure out uh we moved everyone to uh flex days so everyone in my company has flex days which means they work probably the goal is to have them work four days a week the fifth day they still get paid for but that fifth day I want them to work at their pace, not mine. I want them to, you know, wake up, have a coffee, sit on their deck, answer a couple emails, hug their kids, walk their dog, call their mom. And yeah, if they get a call from the station, answer it. But I want them to have a day to decompress because I actually sincerely care about them as people.

care about them as people. So that's what my company is doing. And my company didn't lose $3 million. According to what Bell's saying, my company is extremely successful compared to them. So I'm really a believer in my way. But again, maybe I'm just a guy out in the middle of nowhere that's a lunatic. So when I look at them taking the money from the government, I have two thoughts. One is I was very I was a big fan of the concept of what the Trudeau government unveiled and not a fan of the execution, which is exactly how I felt about Kathleen Wynne with the fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. I love the idea. I hate how they executed it. This is the same because I've talked to a ton of businesses very much like Bell that are like, hey, we're making tons of money because 75% of our wages are being paid by the government. That's not what it was intended to do. It was intended

to make a guy like me who runs a company make a decision. Do I lay someone off or do I keep them? Right. And that was the intent. The intent was to say, don't kick them out, keep them. We're going to help you in your fight to succeed. That was the intent. So everything Bell has done based on their actions is against the spirit of what that was intended to do with your money and my money. Now, the caveat will be Bell with a straight face and zero conscience, I suppose could argue, but those aren't the rules that were laid out by the government. The rules that were laid out by the government were, if your sales went down by this much, you would get it. And those are the rules. So are they playing within the rules? Sure.

I would hope, like my company company we've had a lot of conversations about all the different subsidies we had and we had all these discussions and i finally said to my team i said i've made a decision my decision with our company is we're not going to participate in the pandemic we're going to be the company canada needs right now we're not going to take the handouts unless we have to. If we have to, we will. They're there. But at that same time, we're going to do everything in our power to keep everyone employed. And we're going to do everything in our power to not make changes. Now, we've had to make changes. It is part of life.

But again, what they did for me was against the spirit of what was in attendance. But I think probably by the rules, they're probably within the rules. It's a bad look. So should the federal government have put some kind of caveat or condition on, you know, if you accept this money? I would think that the caveat should have been we will pay this as long as you do not increase dividends. So for example, because again, people have a position sometimes that dividends are evil and that's how the shareholders all make their money. But we have to remember there are some shareholders, like my mom and dad are shareholders. That's how they make their income as being retired. So, you know,

they don't want their dividend. Like, and I think if you asked most people that were Bell investors, Hey, would you rather have four cents a share and everyone stays employed or 6 cents a share and we get rid of 400 Canadians, I have a feeling if you pulled your shareholders, the majority would say, I'm good with 4 cents. Just don't give me three, give me four. i think most canadians feel that way so there should have been something in there that was either tied to dividends or tied to profit because the other thing that's happening is there are a lot of companies that because they're not paying the wages their sales might be down but they've made some other changes here there or whatever their actual profit might actually be up because they're not paying for their staff, right? Because that is only triggered to sales.

So it's, it, it wasn't set up right. And I will give Trudeau credit because I think his heart was in the right place. I don't think his team thought it through and they were trying to do something that's never been done before. So I'll give him a little bit of, um, leeway. However, I would hope that a true spirited Canadian, and I would hope that a company like Bell that has been built by Canadians for years, supported by Canadians for years, I would hope there is someone there that would say, guys, I think we made a mistake there.

I would hope there's someone in their PR department going, hey, guys, you know how we built up Bell Let's Talk Day? We can never do that again because of what you did last year. Like, I don't think they can do it next year because I think the internet will do what the internet does, which is shove it right back in their face. But we both know they're going to do it next year. You know what? Here's why they will. Cause clearly whoever runs their public relations and their human resources departments are not good at their jobs that's i'm sorry that's it because they're not good at what they do because if i was in human resources at bell i would be saying guys i know you want to do these layoffs but we just did bell let's talk day we need another plan we i'm not going to throw our reputation down the drain which is basically

what they did and i'm sure that the uh that the accountants there, there must be some amazing write-off, some kind of charitable write-off that the accountants like from that particular program. If there is one, I mean, obviously, when they donate money, they would get a write-off. But I don't think, my impression would be, I think Bell let's talk day comes from the right place. I think Bell as a company has a lot of money that they donate to charities across the country, you know, schools. And I mean, they do a lot of good things. I don't want to rag on them completely. They do a lot of good things and you know, yeah, they get a charitable tax donation, no different than if you donate to the hospital and that's, that's the rules of the game.

That's okay. I would think that I don't think that's why they're doing it for the write-off i think that's a side benefit i think they're doing it because they realize they have the ability with their mass to change the conversation in canada and and and they did however the flaw is they don't follow up with it and i'll give you the best this is to me is the best example so the friday after all of these crazy massacres whatever you want to call them cuts we had a fireside chat with all of our staff all of our our people now my people don't work for bell they work for me right but we had that fireside chat so that they understood what was happening in the industry and they understood it wasn't happening to us they also could talk to their clients about it like when their clients asked them what was the right thing to say?

How were they feeling? Were they stressed out? What questions did they have? Because, you know, their grandma called and said, Hey, I heard a whole bunch of radio people lost a job. How are you? I don't know. I haven't talked to John.

Like, so we had this conversation and it was great. And afterwards I got so many emails from my staff going, I'm really glad we did that. Thank you. Now this isn't even our company. And we did that. Thank you. Now, this isn't even our company. And we did that. The folks at Bell Media still hadn't heard from the president of Bell Media. My people had their people hadn't. And I just sit there and go that to me. That's where the flaw is. There's just no the human part of it isn't.

It's not compassion. You use the word earlier. It seems like this is completely void. It lacks any sense of empathy or compassion yeah like again you could lay people off and be not like you could shut down a radio station and ask people to leave and not play good riddance as they walk out the door like seriously that's a good segue do that you know what that would take a little bit of thinking mike a little bit of thinking, Mike. A little bit of thinking. Right. And it would take someone who is so passionate about the industry to say, guys, if we know we're doing something that's going to dramatically

affect people, what are you playing on the radio when they're gone? I'm going to play Good Riddance. No, you're not. That's a horrible idea. Play, you know, just play an instrumental. Play Oscar Peterson or something. We're not playing that because i don't want one of those people walking out the door hearing that that's an

insult to them like it just there's just nobody that's actually checking the box that says we are human beings tone deaf it's tone deaf okay so that's a great segue though it reflects to not caring is what it does to me i agree 100 now john uh so we talked about obviously TSN also, CTV made cuts. I know FOT, Anwar Knight, for example, and Tom Brown and others, of course. A lot of people behind the scenes, which are names people don't know because they're behind the scenes, but Dan

O'Toole, Natasha Staniszewski and I'm sure I'm missing Christian Jack and I think someone in Ottawa. Did you say the producer guy? I don't. Tim, is it Tim? Yeah, a bunch of people.

I guess everyone not named Jay Onright, I think, got it. But on that show. But so lots of that. And then, of course, then we learned that. And again, I'm speaking to you from Toronto. The only TSN station I'm familiar with is 1050. I don't know of any changes there, but I do know in Vancouver,

the most popular sports media station in the market is the TSN one, not the Sportsnet one. And TSN, like they literally just like played good riddance, like you said, and no longer TSN. It's turning into, that one's turning into a funny station. No, am I? Yeah, a funny station. Yes. Much like Hamilton's 820. Winnipeg had a TSN station that went off the air as well. Let go everybody. And they're turning into a funny station. Yes. Much like Hamilton's 820. Winnipeg had a TSN station that went off the air as well.

Let go everybody. And they're turning into a funny station. Hamilton had a TSN station that's not, obviously not going to, it's turned into the BNN. It's a BNN station like they have. Yeah. So where am I going with this? Okay.

So for the last 15 years, I've been producing the Humble and Fred show. And it sounds like you actually listened to that podcast which is really cool i do cool cool so i actually helped birth it uh way back in 06 we started and then going daily i guess almost 10 years ago but uh this is in a producer role it's only been 15 months but for the last 12 months we've been having meetings about firing radio like humble Humble and Fred had this deal with Bell Media where they gave their show to Funny 820 from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. Monday through Thursday, and then they had a best of show on Fridays. But they basically, here's the show. Bell Media paid

exactly $0.00 for this show. Although I saw on a board somewhere they thought maybe Humble and Fred was paying Bell Media to take the show. I can confirm that is not true. There was no money changing hands anywhere. And then, so we've been talking for like 12 months about firing radio. And then with these changes, we basically caught wind that time was going to come up, was going to end anyways for Humble and Fred on 820. So before they had a chance to say, okay, this is your last day. We basically, well, Humble and Fred did it. I jumped on the podcast at 9 a.m., but about 845 yesterday morning,

Humble and Fred quit radio while live on Funny 820. And I mean, I put out a press release and everything. It's basically, it's going to be podcast only going forward, but it's just interesting that this is all kind of folded into all these, you know, the bell media cuts that we've been, you know,

hearing about the last few weeks. So I wanted to share the, the, the humble and Fred story that they're podcast only. And you yourself, much like my good friend, Mark Hebbshire, who I actually went live with this morning before we connected for

Hebsey on sports. But you, John, you've got your own, you started your podcast right away. Like pole position is now a podcast, right? So let me speak to a bunch of the things you just said. Yes, please. Number one, Humble and Fred, we used to have them on our sports station in Peterborough. They did, they would send us a show for the weekends. Right. And Fred called me up one day. He's like, Hey, you know, we're doing all this extra work for your station um and i think we put bubba the love sponge on in the

morning somebody he was mad at me for something um and not necessarily rightly mad but i understood why he's mad right and um i just said look guys i understand like if this is not a benefit to you i wouldn't do it so when they quit yesterday i was like you know good for them there's not a benefit for them uh Why do it? It doesn't make sense. And they don't need it. That's the part. They felt they needed it, though.

I had to kind of, because, you know, I don't care much for the radio part because it's not my world. And I had nothing to do with the radio part. I was sort of in there as the podcast part. But they felt, because they had been in radio their whole lives for decades and decades, they felt like their sponsors want to be on the radio. sponsors want to be on the radio even though the as you might know from being a radio insider that you know funny 820 has far fewer listeners than we have right now 100 100 um so here's here's my thoughts so i went to a podcast quickly because what happened to me in toronto so in toronto uh the poll position got canceled and for a a good reason, as far as I was concerned. You know, Mike called me up and said, Look, you know, Jamil is doing a great job filling

in. I think he's a broadcaster that we could work with and be great. And, you know, based on the climate of the world, I think we as a company need to do better. And I said, a hundred percent as a fan of the radio station, the fact that you don't represent complete Toronto diversity, I, I, I would be glad to give my spot because it's a good spot for someone to learn. I don't need it. And I think the radio station needs someone like that. And if you've said, this is the guy I say, go for it. Um, so I did it with my blessings and they're like, yeah, finish out your show, you know, see if you can pump his tires a bit. Like it was, there was never any animosity towards, for me, I respected it because again, I think, you know, news talk 10, 10 for a long time has been a lot of white guys talking

about a lot of things white guys care about. And I think it's good that they're trying to change that. So I supported that, but what came from it, and this is the interesting thing, when my show ended, and Jamil's show is very different than mine, the amount of emails and tweets that I got when my show that aired at 10 o'clock on an AM radio station and Mike AM radio, they power down AM radio at night. am radio station and mike am radio they power down am radio at night so statistically they didn't even give me the full power of the radio station to reach people like they powered it down um so i didn't reach the biggest audience but man the amount of people that were like i missed your show man i loved your show i listened to your show like it blew me away and i was and all of them said start a podcast start a podcast well i didn't start a podcast because i just said oh listen on the i heart radio op because i'm on for three

hours on on montreal just just listen to that like it's better it's easier for me um but again going back to the the the challenge that bell i think is um missing is pride of ownership. So what I mean by that is like as a guy that's in radio and understands radio, understands the technical, the sales, all that, this is my takeaway from my time at Bell. I'm on in Toronto at 10 o'clock on a Thursday night on a radio station where I know the majority

of listeners listen during the day. I know the majority of traffic does, like all the things that should be a benefit to me, I don't get any of them. In fact, all the things that are against me are, you know, like I don't have a producer. I don't have the most power the station can put out. Like I don't have any of the benefits.

But at 10 o'clock on a Thursday, Mike, I could say, you know, there's a survey here about millennials and the Reagan on millennials. Again, I am a friend of the millennials. If you're between 18 and 35, I need you to call right now because we need to have a conversation of this study about you guys not wanting to have sex or whatever the stupid millennial study is. I want to know if it's true. I'm standing up for you.

Call me right now. And the phone lines would go berserk. Call after call. Hi, you're on the pole position. How old are you? John, I'm standing up for you. Call me right now. And the phone lines would go berserk. Call after call. Hi, you're on the pole position. How old are you? John, I'm 19. I'm 25. I'm 35. And the text board meanwhile was like, John, you're not going to get millennials calling you. They don't listen to this radio station. And furthermore, they don't use the phone, which is true. That's true. Yet here I am 10 o'clock taking call after call after call. And I used to send the audio to Mike and say, Mike, send this audio to the salespeople. They don't understand the power of this radio station. Like I don't have anything and listen

to this. Like these are, these are the demos that everyone says, don't listen to AM radio. They do. And not only do they listen, they call them, they laugh and they make jokes and they do all the things that every generation has ever done with talk radio. And it was the same in Montreal. Like in Montreal and in Montreal, my ratings were complete polar opposite to the radio station. They were having struggles with 2554 and I was growing 2554. And I kept saying, like, where are the sales guys? Like, let's like Saul Corman was part of Ed Needham I

don't know if Saul started with Ed Needham like some historian will know because I know he was on with Bobcat and I know he was on with John Oakley but I know he was when he started when I was introduced to Saul Corman he was on with Ed Needham at night and the reason as I understood it and maybe someone from Corey's knows the real truth but as I understood it the reason he was on with Ed Needham at night. And the reason, as I understood it, and maybe someone from Corey's knows the real truth, but as I understood it, the reason he was on with Ed was because he couldn't afford the daytime. He could afford Ed's time slot

because it wasn't the monster daytime. So he bought it and Ed made him a star. And then John made him a star. And I'm sure Bobcat made him a star. And I'm sure whatever other shows he called, they made him stars. And I'm sure Bobcat made him a star. And I'm sure whatever other shows he called, they made him stars. And I would always say like, guys, how many salt Cormans exist in Toronto? Like Palma pasta, CDN technologies, sticker you.com.

Like, I mean, Mike's got them over on the troll Mike podcast. Like how come we don't have some of them on the pole position. I don't get it. Like we have this bigger thing with this bigger brand and nothing crickets and the reason is because on the hierarchy of bell media sales news talk 1010 is low and then you know my show is extremely low right um but the point i'm trying to make is i don't think they know what they have like and i and I, you know, I challenge anyone go through my Twitter, click on everybody's face. That's made a comment. Like I missed your

show. Can't believe you go through, look at the people. They're 25, 54. They're diverse. They're tall. They're short. They're black. They're white. They're Brown. They're yellow. They're transgender. Like it's everything. And I'm like, and my big takeaway from all this is how the hell can't you sell that? Like you're not, you're like, uh, they moved the salespeople out of news talk 10, 10. Think about this for a second, Mike. Okay. That building they're in. Would you agree is probably the most iconic media building in Canada?

Uh, yeah, I would agree. Yeah. Like I'm 47. So much music was there. Like remember is it i remember when i went to ryerson the first thing i did when i moved in i went down to queen street to look at that building because i was like i gotta see that you know me and my buddies went in the speaker's corner speaker's corner absolutely so i'm like okay so now you have like even when i like i would go into that building to do my shows when i went to toronto and like literally i could feel

it in my body like and I'm a radio guy like I just look like chum fms there and virgin radio and cp24 and cfrb and you know Marilyn Dennis does her show I'm like god I just I felt so blessed to be in that building right and then I went up one day and the sales team's all gone like all their desks are empty it looks like a garage sale and I said i'm like what's going on with the sales people like oh we moved them to agent corner somewhere else like why well it's more efficient i'm like no you're not thinking of this if if i took the guys from cdn technologies into that building number one they're going to feel a hundred times more excited than i do

because i'm used to being in radio buildings you take a plumber or heat and air cooling guy into that building. They're going to be like, Oh my God, this is the greatest building ever. And then you take them in and you let them see the wonderfulness of like, you can't do this now, but you could take them into the newsroom and see news people working. You can't do that anymore. You're so right. Yeah. See, you take them into master control where the phones are being answered and all the boards there. It's exciting. You get them to shake Jerry Agar's hand. That's a client that's going to say, how do I be part of this? This is really cool.

Okay, so your business move was to move those people as far away from that action as possible. It makes no sense. Great point. Great point because you can almost still feel the Moses energy, right? That kinetic environment. Yeah, I was like, bring them in. Like they're going to, they're going to love it. Like I would, I would, if I was the sales manager, it'd be like, if we don't have 10 clients in this building every single day, we're dummies.

Uh, and then this is my other thing. I talk about pride of ownership because again, I work for Gary Slate at News Talk 1010 and I saw him in the hallways and literally I would see him walk down the hall. And if there was something on the floor, he would bend over and pick it up and put in the garbage, like pride of ownership. It's little things. The one thing that drove me nuts at Newstalk 1010. And again, this is, people might think I'm crazy, but it makes a great point. They had this huge TSN poster in the hallway of TSN or of Newstalk 1010.

And on that poster was Phil Kessel. Right. of tsn or of news talk 1010 and on that poster was phil kessel right and that poster stayed up for like someone to have to give us the exact time but i'm going to take a guess three years after phil kessel was traded right every time i looked at it it pissed me off because i was like if i own this radio station that poster would go down fuck in 10 after phil kessler wasn't a leaf because it's insulting to leaf fans and it's insulting to tsn and it's insulting to toronto it's dusty yeah now again that's a minor thing and people think oh john no one cares you don't even notice it's phil kessler like i did yeah like they know it was the first thing i noticed when i came in here and in my mind as a hardcore leaf fan i was like why the hell you got a Phil Kessel poster and to me it's it that's what they're missing it's those

little things interesting so here I gotta ask the big question before we say goodbye this has been amazing by the way I love this but I need to know why why is this company that makes most of their money from cell phones and cable packages and internet packages like why are they in this business at all like why are they in this business at all like why not sell it to somebody who gives a shit like the media i mean look i mean look i hope they would like here would be my advice for for bell sell me as many of the radio stations as you'd like because i i think they're great uh i want pennies on the dollar but i'll take good care of them and if you want bell you can be a shareholder in my company and I'll make you a whole bunch of money because I know what the hell I'm doing. Uh, but

I don't know. The answer is, the answer is contradictory to their actions because their answer is always content yet. They get rid of the content. So, um, so I, I don't know that answer, but, uh, to your point about the podcast, um, um i this is what i've learned from podcasting and you're probably going to say i'm talking to the choir but so i started doing this podcast because so many people asked me to do it so i was already prepared i you know i've talked to people like that do twitch and i'm a big fan of twitch uh i didn't know as much about podcasting but i understand how youtube and like i'm pretty savvy that way. So when I had moved and I built this room that I'm in now, which is my office, it's all set up to do live streaming podcasts and all that kind of stuff.

And so like literally when it happened, I was like, oh, I was going to do it later, but I guess I'll do it now. And here's what I thought was interesting, Mike, and you'll know these things better than I do. So I did the first podcast where literally I just said, whatever the hell I said, I can't remember. And that had about 600 downloads. And then subsequently now I do my podcast on Spreaker, which then takes it and puts it out on Google and all that kind of stuff. So before I put the first podcast wasn't on Spreaker. So I don't have the Spreaker stats for it. I just have whatever people went to that webpage. So I was about 600. And then since that time, there's nine episodes total.

And I think all of it combined, I'm at about 3000 downloads, which in my mind doesn't seem like a lot. But then I think if I had 3000 people in a, you know, like, you know, a Danforth music hall, I'd be really happy with that. So I don't know. And of course, as you're learning, uh, podcast listeners are attentive. I guess you call it P1 in the radio world. I guess that's your term, but these are not passive listeners. People literally like if the phone rings, they pause the podcast, you know, or they're on their walk or they're working out or they're on a bike ride or whatever the heck. Uh, but they're, they're totally attentive and it's on demand and they absorb, they take on the whole thing.

So it's so different than radio where it might be in the, I don't know, it might get measured because it's in the dentist's office or it's the background of the supermarket or whatever. It's a completely different form of communication. Yeah. And I'm excited about the same way I'm excited about radio. Like one of the reasons I love radio as a radio guy is we can do anything. Like if we can think it, we can do it. Right. There are no rules. And podcasting is the same way. Like how you make money on your podcast is different than how Joe Rogan makes

money, which is different than how Drew and Mike. Also a different amount of money. Yeah. Like everybody comes up with different ways and that's what I like about it. So I've had fun doing it because i like that i don't have to sit through three hours of news and traffic and commercials that don't affect my life um i like that i can do it like i could do it when we're done this and do whatever i want the rest of the day i also love the intimacy of the people that listen to it send me a lot of feedback which is really nice too so right uh it's been good i don't know that i'll do it forever but

it's been fun tell us how if somebody listening to us right now in Toronto, Mike wants to check out pole position, where would you like them to go? Uh, well, I don't know what the, you can tell me what the right answer is. It's on Google. It's on Apple. It's on Spotify. I usually just say, uh, search for pole position wherever you get your podcasts yeah now i don't know like because i'm new i probably don't rank very high no but but you know i'm sure if you've named it like i'm assuming did you name it pole position with john pole position with john paul yeah they'll find it now yeah it's not about formula one there's a few formula one podcasts and i learned this mike yeah there is an app called the pole position and what

that app does is it allows dancers oh pole to schedule their dancing time at gentlemen's night clubs there's an app for that that's funny by the way quick i one of my clients is peter gross and he's got this fantastic podcast called down the stretch and we've been doing that for a while now we just got to cease and desist from the guy who owns the expression, this famous American horse racing collar guy who owns, and down the stretch they come. He's trademarked this. And we just got a cease and desist. So hopefully nobody... You know what? That's worth it just for the story. Oh, absolutely. It's quite amazing. John, honestly, you hit it out of the park in your debut here. John, honestly, you hit it out of the park in your debut here. Well, I hope this is like a little... I mean, I'm not Steve Anthony.

I'm not Ryan Doyle or Jay Michaels. I hope I bring lots of love to your podcast. If nothing, we've had a wonderful conversation. And if you listen, you know that I am as excited about having John Pohl on as I am about having Ron McLean on. I don't actually have any kind of, oh, that name recognition is smaller than the other. That's not at all

how this works. I got stories. We'll do this again. Thanks for your candor and your being so candid and for the real talk. I really appreciate this, man. Thank you, man. All the best. And that

brings us to the end of our 803rd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. John, are you at John Pohl? At J-O-N-P-O-L-E. Follow John on Twitter at John Pohl. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, they're at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta, they're at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

CDN Technologies are at CDN Technologies. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's on Instagram as at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week.

next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.