Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Jonah from Toronto Sports Media: Toronto Mike'd #122

Episode Date: May 25, 2015

Mike chats with Jonah from Toronto Sports Media about Toronto's sports media.

Welcome to episode 122 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from torontomic.com and joining me this week is Jonah from but that's the closest I could come. I've been called worse. So close. Exactly. Welcome, Jonah. Thank you. Thanks to be here. It's nice closest I could come. I've been called worse. So close. Exactly. Welcome, Jonah. Thank you.

Thanks for being here. It's nice to finally meet you. I've been reading your work at Toronto Sports Media for quite a while now, and it's always interesting. Yeah, I'm the guy. And my buddy Elvis, who's often sitting in with me co-hosting, loves that site. He's the one who turned me on to it.

He's like, are you reading TSM? And then I started following, And yeah, interesting stuff. We're coming up on, hard to believe, eight years now since I started. Yeah, that's an eternity in the world of blogging. It certainly is. You haven't caught up to me yet, though.

How long have you been doing it? Let me think. First blog entry was 2002, so that's like 13 years ago. Wow, amazing. You'll never catch me you know what the really good news is i'm thrilled to be here in your awesome studio oh thanks so the best part is because we often get accused of being basement dwelling bloggers and here we are actually in a basement so i can no longer say that i'm not a i don't live in the basement but apparently you record in one you know so freaking awesome i can't

begin to tell you how i'm like my skin i've got chills it's fantastic you know i had damien cox here and i quoted him he made some comment on twitter and many years ago i think to the pension plan puppets guys he said something about you guys in your basement you know hurling this and i go how ironic how does it feel you're now sitting in my basement as we record an episode of this podcast. Yeah. I don't even know where that starts. Like, I don't know what the genesis of that is, but it's pretty hilarious how it seems to be the knock. I think it's from the Simpsons episode where Homer has to go back to university, I think. And then we had the nerds in the basement, but the Picard or...

Yeah, Kirk crowd. Well, welcome. Okay. So, I think. And then we had the nerds in the basement, but the Picard or... Exactly. Yeah, Kirk crowd. Well, welcome. Okay. So Toronto Sports Media, for those who haven't checked it out and everybody should, you cover basically, as the title suggests, you cover sports media. Right. So the real history of it was that I'd moved back to Toronto after several years living in the States at a time where not unlike today all Toronto teams really sucked and I just found the coverage of the team so negative that sitting doing work at night on my laptop I found it cathartic to actually just

rant and rave about the coverage I always just promised myself that I'd be fair and balanced not really try not to be personal, that if you brought up Damien Cox, so let's go with Damien. If Damien said something or wrote something at that time that I thought was flawed on Monday, then I'd call him out on Tuesday. If he wrote a brilliant piece, then he'd do that.

And lo and behold, over time, it just turned into a daily thing, and all of a sudden there were followers, and holy cow people actually read this stuff so people are people are i'm one of them like there are people like me out there who are interested in you know coverage of the media that cover ours so we want to read about our teams which by the way yes they do really really suck and they have sucked for a long time right yeah so the fascinating thing is like i love when I get commentary back to me, like, what do you know? You know, what professional are you? I'm like, I'm not. I raise my hand and say guilty as charged. I'm just a fan who comments.

Right. I'm just a guy with an opinion. Exactly. Who takes the time? Like, why do you take it so serious? Like, I don't take it seriously. I actually have a lot of fun with it. Yeah, yeah. I wrote something yesterday about when I go out for brunch, the cups that they serve my coffee in are really tiny, okay? And it bothers me because it's like two gulps, it's gone. It's like baby cups. And then I need a refill,

but I need several refills. Like just... Just bring me the keg. Yeah, bring me the keg of coffee. If you can't bring me like what I call croffs or whatever you got, if you can't do that, bring me like an adult size cup right and

then so i write this because it was a mild irk yesterday and i'm like i'm gonna write about so many people want to tell you that's a first world problem like oh you got a bigger problem i'm like that's not the point like no one said this is the worst problem the earth has today but i'm gonna share problems big and small and issues. I'm going to rant about issues big and small. It's your space, right? You're writing about what you want. And by the way, you don't have to come back.

Right. Yeah. I'm not a critic of brunch establishments. I am just a guy with an opinion on the cup size at my brunch. And it bothers you. Yeah. And when it comes to,

and as you know, you're on toronto mic tier episode 122 i actually uh have a little list i'm just going to read out a list of uh toronto sports media people who have sat in that very seat and we'll just to set the table okay and add some context these will be people where i at least talk to them one-on-one for at least an hour okay so the list of i, I won't count my friend Freddie P, who was the sports guy at CFNY for years. I'm not going to count that.

So negative one. Negative one. Strombo from Rogers Hockey. Elliot Friedman from Rogers Hockey. Jeff Merrick, who's coming back and just a great guy. And he's from Rogers Hockey. Damien Cox, as we mentioned. A lot of Rogers Hockey people here.

I'm seeing a trend. Well, let's leave hockey because I had Mike Wilner sitting there. You're sitting in the Wilner seat. Oh, my God. Big name. Who else? James Myrtle, who's very tall. Is he?

Yep. I didn't know that. He's very tall. Yeah, you hardly could tell from the Twitter feed. Andrew Walker. Greg Brady. They that. He's very tall. Yeah. You hardly could tell from the Twitter feed. Andrew Walker. Uh-huh. Greg Brady. They came separately, by the way.

Mark Hebbshire. Sportsline. Yes, guy. And I'm going to... Barb DiGiulio, who's no longer doing sports media, but was on our big sports media radio station for like 25 years. Forever. And I'm counting him because he's frigging hilarious.

Down Goes Brown. Oh, awesome. So there you go. That's terrific. One more thing. Even though we're now meeting. I feel honored. You're sitting in the wilderness. I am. Even though it's the first time we've met, I did have a beer with Mike from Boston who writes on your site. Oh, very cool. Yes, he does. Another non-professional who gets

dumped on all the time for having an opinion. How dare he? Exactly. I think his handle, Mike from Boston, is a little misleading since he's living here in Toronto now. Maybe it's Mike would rather be in Boston. Right, absolutely. Oh, great. So you mentioned eight years you've been blogging over there.

So my first question right off the bat before we start talking about some of these guys we love to chat about, sometimes you have, I will call it an exclusive. Sometimes I'll see you have something, you know, you're hearing rumblings, you're checking sources and you're going to write something and it'll be the

first time I've heard it. Right. So there, first of all, kudos. Thank you. Cause I love that world. And sometimes I get an exclusive or two.

Absolutely. You certainly do. And I'll write about you and say this, I saw it at hat tip, tip of the hat. Correct. TSM hat. I always say that. So listen, like I'll write about you and say this, I saw it at hat tip, tip of the hat. Correct. TSM hat, I always say that. So listen, like I'll tell you honestly how it evolved. So as I said,

eight years ago, I start writing and just having fun with it. And I wrote a piece about concussions, concussions in sport and concussion in hockey. And there was a really good story about Dr. Charles Tatter doing some charity event. And I wrote about it because I thought it was, although it wasn't sports media related, I thought it was important. And one of the Toronto mainstream media members did write me an email and said, look, first of all, I really appreciate that you've written this because I think it's an important story. But I really respect how you cover our business.

And again, fair and balanced, right? And one became two and two became three. And I actually don't really spend a lot of time hunting around. If I hear something, I try to go to a source and say, can you legitimize this? Is this true? Is it not true? To corroborate. Exactly. But that's how it, I'll tell you that 90% of the time the story comes to me, someone will email me, call me, text me, what have you, and say, Hey, have you heard this? Check this out. This is going on. The funny, the really funny thing is, is that the folks who cover the business are actually pretty happy to talk about it.

Certainly off the record. Yes. Yeah. And so I guess that's my next question. So, uh, yes, I very similar to you. Somebody will send me a note in there. I call it now. I see smoke. There's some smoke. Correct. Now I got to go poke and will send me a note in there. I call it now. I see smoke.

There's some smoke. Correct. Now I got to go poke and see if there's some fire to write about. Now. So do you have like let's use Rogers as an example. Do you have insiders at Rogers you are friendly with? And what are their names? Yeah, exactly.

Don Collins. Is that you? No. So like, listen, I think there are I – I think there's people that contact me who I speak to, who I become friendly with at all outlets, not just Rogers. And I think as long as you are, again, fair and balanced and honest and not personal and clearly not source-revealing, then that's – it's a relationship like any other business relationship, right? Or a personal relationship. So, a lot of times it works both ways. So there's times you hear something about someone and say,

oh, by the way, you're in the news this week, or here's what I'm hearing about you, which is of interest or vice versa. But for the most part, they're all really good people. There's salespeople, there's on-air people, there's off-air people. And then there's a huge contingency of folks who are related in the sales side of things and the marketing side of things who also hear and see things i mean it's it's pretty fast just from being inside the walls hear the rumblings so do you ever find that the two well the two big giants uh in the toronto sports media world bell and rogers do they ever use you? Do you find that maybe somebody from Bell who has something that makes Rogers look, look bad, will use you as a way to

put it out there? So no, uh, here's what I'll tell you that I have seen. Uh, and I wrote about this a little while ago. Um, I don't think they're leaking things about each other to me. I can tell you they're not cause it hasn't happened. what has happened and i found quite frustrating is on the rating the radio rating side i i would get numbers from rogers and i'd get rogers numbers from bell and or 640 at the time and i get a third set of numbers and not one of them anything like the other and they're all playing with things which is why i find it so exasperating that we actually can't get real numbers from the horses well yeah let's start with this. So I do have my little notes here and we'll cover a lot of things here.

But let's start with this because I know exactly what you're talking about. And the gentleman who's been writing about this lately for the Globe is Dave Schultz. Correct. Maybe tell me what your thoughts are on how Dave Schultz covers radio ratings. Well, he hasn't done it for very, very, very long because there's people at the paper that used to do it professionally, unlike us, basement dwellers. But the problem with I have with the last article that he wrote is that it was pretty misleading. And it was based on ages and demographics and audience sizes that nobody really pays any attention to. And some other blogger, what was his name? Oh, Mike in Toronto, I think. Oh, Toronto Mike.

Yeah, I heard of him. He's good, by the way. He's good. Yeah, yeah. He's been doing it for a couple of years. He seemed to call out the fact that someone was highlighting a number that just nobody really paid attention to. It was tremendously misleading. Now, yeah, for those who don't geek out with radio ratings, essentially every station sort a number that just nobody really paid attention to. It was tremendously misleading. Now, yeah, for those who don't geek out with radio ratings, essentially every station sort of targets a demo. And that's basically how they, that's what they target.

And that's basically the only number. And I've talked to a lot of radio guys on this show, way outside of sports radio and everything. It's really like that is their demo. And I don't care about all the other ears that are outside this demo because this is how i get paid and my bonuses are tied to this this is how the advertising revenue is driven so for the fan for example and i think camera 18 no 25 to 54 is that the one yeah i should know this right so they have a demo that they target but i noticed dave schultz is writing about all listeners like which which to me it why so a couple points. One, the system is flawed. Let's call the spade

the spade. The system is flawed and it's a bad system. Having said that, it is the only system that we have. So we're kind of stuck with it. And it's not necessarily that the stations want the demographic as much as it is the folks who pay the stations, the marketers are interested in that demographic. And I don't think it's rocket science to say that if you're listening to one of two stations, 590 and 1050, you're probably talking about a predominantly male audience at a certain age bracket. So with certain income demographics attached to it. So that's the core audience. And obviously, it's different at 9999, which is different than q107 which is completely different than 680 so it's it's very commonsensical and everybody knows what the key demographics is for sports media sports radio in

toronto and that ain't it you know it's funny you mentioned you'll get three number three sets of numbers they'll be different because i i have sources too and they'll provide me with the numbers and I get the numbers like literally copied and pasted and they'll have them. And then Dave Schultz will go to press with numbers. There's similar trends, like you can see the same training, but the actual numbers are different. I think it was Paul Beeston or Rose McCowan on Beeston or one or the other who said, you know, when Beeston was back in the early days of the Blue Jays, that a good accountant can take chicken bleep and turn it into chicken salad. Right. So we all know you have Excel.

But we don't even have to bleep on this show. That's how wonderful it is. I'm trying to be careful. So at the end of the day, the truth is that anyone can take numbers and look at things and project things and find positives and find negatives or hide them either way. It seems to me that somebody somehow convinced Dave Schultz, who I think is a really phenomenal writer. I truly do. Like, listen, we all have hits and misses. Look at the length of the career. Like the guy's a good writer. He knows his stuff. This to me is kind of, it's head scratching. And it's always going to be difficult for Schultz to write about, you know,

And it's always going to be difficult for Schultz to write about, you know, TSN versus Rogers with the, what percent is it that Bell owns of the Globe and Mail? 20? I think it's at least that. I think I thought it was 20 and then Myrtle told me it was like 15, but whatever it is, you know, Bell has an interest in Globe and Mail. Now, listen, it's part of the problem that you probably face, that I probably face, is that there's... And I think there's always a conflict when the outlets actually have someone covering sports media when they're in the business. Right, yeah, yeah. We can be a little bit more Switzerland in the fact that we are, at least I am, I think. I know, I'm 100% here. Completely unaffiliated, right? I've never made a dime from either Bell or Rogers, although I've given a lot of money to both of them.

Yes, monthly. or Rogers, although I've given a lot of money to both of them. Yes, monthly. So, I mean, what frustrates me on that, and I wrote about this, is that I actually went to the proverbial horse's mouth and tried to buy the official rating so I personally could have the tied and true tested version and they wouldn't give them to me. So is it because you lacked the title and the, what is it, just because they knew it was a word out on you? No, I'm not a media outlet.

It's actually black and white. It wasn't just me. That unless you are a media outlet, the industry is trying to protect itself, which is quite hilarious. You know, do you know how many males, 25 to 54, are wearing these PPM devices? Do you know the number? You know, I've heard varying numbers. I've heard upwards of 200. I've heard 150.

That's a small sample size. It's ridiculous. That's insane. The system is flawed. Yeah, that system sucks. Now, it's better than it used to be because it used to be actually done by paper. Yeah, yeah, I did it once.

I got a $2 bill. So they gave me a diary. This was many years ago because they were $2 bills. And yeah, they gave me the diary and they said, here's a $2 bill. Thanks for completing it. And you're right. People want to maybe sound impressive.

So maybe they write in a little more CBC than there really was. And only that, the segments used to be ridiculous. Now you did it, I didn't. But it used to be, if you listen for like 10 seconds within an hour, that was an hour. Yeah, I can't remember that far back. But yeah, yeah yeah it's

flawed system agreed agreed uh on that note though that flawed system tells us that uh 590 kicks 10 50s ass when it comes to actual listeners correct and uh and from all accounts uh like let's i wanted to specifically talk to you about the new morning show. And I'm going to ramble a little bit here. Show or shows. Yeah. So on the Fan 590, the big move, I guess, of 2015 is that they have moved out from the morning show. They moved out Brady and Walker. And they've moved in Dean Blundell and company. And Blundell, as you know, has a sort of assorted history in the cities.

He spent a little time. I've, it turns out, uh, somebody at chorus mentioned, I could put together a special documentary feature on Dean Blundell. Cause I've interviewed almost everybody who's worked with the man over the past 15, 20 years, just, just happened to be sitting in that seat when I had Billy in last week it's sort of now I've had you know uh Todd Shapiro and uh the cat from uh Jason Barr and I could go on but uh Billy and I have uh uh Danny Stover and so on so I feel like I've talked to a number of people who've worked with Dean Blundell so what's the common thread well the common thread is as I don't have to, I don't think I'm speaking at a school, anyone can listen to it,

that he is a difficult guy to work with. It sounds like he's a prototypical workplace bully. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's the word on him. And I wondered if you've heard anything from your inside sources on how it's going so far. So I'll be honest, I have not heard any of that whatsoever.

I haven't heard anything about how he treats his people. To me, it is the recrystallization of the fan because we've kind of walked this path before where we went off the sports path with... Andrew Crystal. Exactly. And now we seem to want to try it again. This one, though,

this one seems to have a bigger upside than the crystal thing had like because i mean at least in recent history we've seen monster numbers from this blendel in a different format yeah oh yeah very different you know a much different format right there's a track record that makes sense you don't have to see it and i mean i had this chat when the decision was made. To me, you're banking on these listeners, these young male listeners who enjoyed the 102.1 type music and show. You're banking on them sort of finding AM

and tuning into sports radio in the morning. Yeah, it's akin to saying, let's say John Derringer is the king of rock music in Toronto. What's the country music? So we're going to put Derringer on in the mornings on a country station and hope for that small little window. These rock fans are going to come to country radio

because Derringer's there. Have you listened to any of the Blundell show? I have. So listen, I'm a morning driver. What do you do for a living? I'm in digital media. I run digital media for a retailer

here in town don't want to say who that's okay i just don't you don't have to um but so you know i'm in the morning hall every morning so i'm a flipper uh as i am both ways uh home and to work so listen i flip in back and forth between the two of them so i listen to the richard show and i listen to the blendel show and in your the Blundell show. And in your opinion, who's the better listen? Which show do you think is the more entertaining show? Well, see, that's a fascinating question

because you said, who's the more entertaining show? Yeah. And it's not that I don't want to be entertained, but for me, I just want to know, I'd like to know what happened last night,

what may happen today. And I'm just not interested in all that much hijinks and hilarity on my morning commute. I'm a sports fan, and I'd like to know, how did the teams do? What was the game that I missed last night? Or what's the phenomenal commentary on what I saw? And what's happening the rest of the day? So be it trades, rumors, stats, interviews. To be honest, I'm usually more interested in the guests

than i am in the hosts and i'm actually i find both shows to be pretty pathetic right now in my mind i don't have this morning commute so i've been i don't i don't get the chance to listen too much but uh i talk to people who listen and when i'm hearing similar thing which is essentially like the blendelell Show's, I'll paraphrase, but the Blundell Show is horrible, but Richards is no better. There's like nowhere for the sports fan

to go in the morning. They're lost. Correct. So in my mind, there's a void, and I don't really get it because it's a big sports town. And there's lots of information 12 months of the day.

And listen, I don't know how these guys fill a full day talking nothing but sports to begin with. And I've said that. It's amazing that they do it. And not just on one station, but on two. But I just think there's a core appetite there of sports fans that don't necessarily need...

Back when Landry and Stelic were doing it, I didn't really need to hear about Chris Schultz's mustache or what Ken Drodden thinking in the house. I didn't find it funny. And it's not that I love comedy as much as anybody else. But bring on the guests. Talk about the events. You can have a little back and forth.

They used to do the Wilner thing, too. That was Landry. He was doing the Wilner game. So it's not my cup of tea, but whatever. But it still should be a sports show. And I don't know why they, especially Rogers. Rogers truly thinks, for some reason, and that's why I call it the recrystallization. They keep trying to find this audience outside of the niche of sports.

And I don't get it. Fascinating. Okay, so now we're locked and loaded here. I'm going to guess, because of the amount of press and money invested here that they're going to go a long time with Blundell before they decide if this is a success or failure.

Like this won't be a short term. Crystal was pretty short term, right? Yeah, less than a year. Right. And then he was gone. And that seemed like a bad idea from the get-go. This one to me

sounds like a bad idea from the get-go. But I think they'll ride this one out a lot longer. Why? I don't have an answer. I'm curious as to why. I just feel like

when the executives put their neck out for a big name like this, I feel like they will give it more time because it's got too much to lose by kind of calling it a disaster quickly. Does that? So I disagree. Okay, tell me. I want to hear your thoughts.

So I disagree because to me, there's one name and there's one name only, and that's McCowan. And everybody other than that, the deck can be shuffled. So my sense from Rogers is, to their credit, if it ain't working, they fix it pretty damn quickly. And even sometimes if it is working, they fix it pretty damn quickly. So there's two key books that these guys pay attention to in terms of ratings. One is spring and one is fall. So if – I don't know, and I think you wrote it and I think I wrote it as well when that last book came out.

Summer is kind of irrelevant because it's the dog days of summer. But if we're talking October, November, and the numbers are bad for that show, I don't know how somebody who's making money on this, who probably takes it more serious than you and I do, keeps their job. I just don't know how they keep this as is, because if nobody's listening and the listenership is down, marketers aren't going to be paying. So I don't know how you write it out. Now, having said that, they seem to be writing it out over at TSN with their morning show. I don't understand that. Okay. That's where I was going with the fact that the books seem to suggest very few actual listeners to 10 50. So how long can like Mike Richards specifically,

but in general, does this bell just prop it up to have the radio arm of the TSN? Well, it appears that way, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, my view is,

and I was listening as, as I drove to your suite here today, um, is that there's actually better talent on after the morning shows. Both stations have better shows on after the morning than they do on the morning. So, you know, it's a good promotional vehicle for TSN for TV. I think it is a brand expander, but I think, you know, I think they're in it. I think they have to be in it given the space that they're in.

And I just think at some point somebody's going to figure it out. So did you ever tell me which show was more entertaining? I can't remember. Richards or Blundell? So to me, it really depends on the guest. So if Kiprios or McClain are on and there's actually something to talk about, they can be pretty good to listen to. Jeff Merrick was on this morning with Blundell. It was pretty good.

I think it really depends on who you are more in tune to. So I like hearing Mackenzie. I like hearing Dreger. I like Dirk Hayhurst. So it depends on the guest. To me it is. For the most part, with all due respect, I don't really care what Blundell thinks. And I don't really care what Mike Richards thinks.

I really care about what more the quote-unquote experts think. Right, right, right. So where am I going to hear more of them? It seems to me that Blundell seems to be doing more of the Porky's jokes, if you will. And I just, if I wanted that, I'd listen to something else. I'd tune into Stern, which is totally an option. But neither show are really filling the sports appetite, as you said. And did you ever listen to Blundell on his previous show on 102.1?

Are you coming into cold Blundell here? I listened to it when the proverbial, all right, we can swear shit hit the fan with him. I did some backtracking and listening to some old podcasts. And I get it for where he was and it fit right it fit the audience fit the demographic fit what they're trying to do i don't get it where he is now agreed so there's a gentleman on tsn 1050 uh i have a question for you from the twitter sphere question about uh brian hayes so this person i'm going to quote them uh i think he's a knowledgeable guy, but a one-man show is stale and

he has tough competition. So what do you think about the future of Brian Hayes? So I don't understand why he's in the time slot that he's in. I think he's wasted. I think that's a bit of a waste. What's his time slot? So he's on I think he comes on around noon and he does like the Leafs lunch.

Yeah, Leafs lunch. And then he does the afternoon show. So he goes against Brady and Walker. Correct. Which I should ask you because we had you talk about... This is going to be one of those episodes that's kind of all over the place. Yeah, I can sense that.

I'm sorry. But you're in good hands. No problem. He's 122 episodes. That makes me a professional. Let me just answer this. Yeah, go ahead. I'm a Hayes fan.

And listen, I agree. He's working as now Brady and Walker are in that, you know, daytime graveyard shift. I think he puts on a really good show. I think he's great when he has the, the former hockey players with him. I think he has good fun.

I think one thing I will say about Hayes and a lot like Walker and Brady, they know their stuff. Like they are tied and true sports nuts, right? So they can go X's and O's. They can go stats. They can go, you know, they know their stuff. Like they are tied and true sports nuts, right? So they can go X's and O's, they can go stats, they can go, you know, they can have that discussion. The three of those guys can in my mind, on any of the sports. So they can talk college basketball, they can talk NCAA football, NFL, I'm not sure about CFL, but I probably bet they could certainly baseball,

basketball, hockey. And that to me, like, that's why i don't understand why some mixture of those three aren't in the mornings and i don't understand why they moved walker and brady off the morning show on the fan that's a derringer's nephew right yes i believe so because uh son of bill right bill hayes right yes right right right uh there's a little fun fact for everybody there you go they're all connected exactly uh brady and walker uh what did you think of their morning show so at least what i liked about it was it was a tried and true sports show yeah they're they know their shit there's no question yeah and so listen was there was there the odd uh hijinks there if you will will, sure. And that's okay. And there was some off-color stuff there, and I think that's fine as well.

Somebody clearly wanted a... Someone or someones clearly wanted a change of direction in the mornings. As somebody else once said to me, they only really make change on radio stations for one reason, and that's ratings. But as you pointed out in the Auntie Schultz article, clearly things weren't as

dire as others are trying to make them seem to be. Correct. And so, yeah, so Brady and Walker, who, when I did hear them, I enjoyed their banter. I think they have good chemistry. And you're right, they do know their sports, and they'll go deep on the Jays or whatever, but then they will do some fun stuff.

Like, I actually was in a car the other day, and I heard a bit about Brady wanted to see Mad Max. And he didn't want to go alone and he wanted a listener. And I actually didn't hit the spud in because I was interested. It seemed like a fun convo and Walker was telling me it was a bad idea. They kind of had this good rapport and it was entertaining radio. That's my point. So that's why I don't get why that show is no longer on.

So if I was running the fan, I would have kept those guys there. If I was running the other show, I'd put Hayes on in the morning. Fascinating. But that's me. No, but you're just a guy. We're talking to this guy. Your name is Jonah. Exactly.

And by the way, you don't look like your Twitter picture. I thought Jonah Hill was Jonah. I'm just messing with you. Exactly. Twitter picture. You're not sure you didn't. I thought that's just, you know, I'm just exactly now. The Brady and Walker show got moved to one o'clock where

Tim and Sid. Oh, yeah. First of all, first of all, originally when they announced Blundell was coming in and do mornings on 590, they announced that Walker was going to stay behind and be with him. And then and by the way, something happened. Something I always felt like Walker should go with Brady, the way, something happened. I always felt like Walker

should go with Brady, which is, you know, I always felt like that made more sense, but they announced it that he was going to stay. But then they changed their mind.

Do you have any insight into any idea why they changed their mind? I don't. Listen, there's lots of rumor and innuendo out there. It would appear to me

that they clearly wanted a sports presence along with Dean Blundell. Well, you need one. Correct. The only thing I can go on is, you know, they probably were doing a lot of testing. I heard there was a lot of people that kind of got taken through the test audience, if you will. And I don't know, maybe George Rusick scored, but I have no idea.

And it might just come down to second thoughts about breaking up the Brady and Walker. Yeah. And maybe it just, yeah, keep them together.

Oh, they're sort of a brand now. Even though in previous episodes, I have referred to the Brady and Walker show as Brady and Lang. Yeah, well. More than once.

And then I always hear, Andrew will always remind me that actually he's on the show now. Exactly, yeah. So I don't know what happened. I do find it confusing. Not confusing. Confounding, actually.

I think there's better, quote unquote, sidekicks at the fan that may have fit in better, who have more sports knowledge than the current sidekick. Russick? Correct. who have more sports knowledge than the current sidekick? Russock? Correct. I just, I don't know what he,

he seems to be the Ed McMahon to Dean Blundell. He's doing a lot of laughing. He's doing a lot of laughing. I was told in the beginning, he was saying the name Dean quite a bit. Like, I guess to make sure we know. Because they sound alike. There are a lot of times in the morning when I'm listening, if he's not saying it,

it is kind of hard to tell who's who. So that doesn't surprise me, but I find him doing nothing more a whole lot of times in the morning when I'm listening, if he's not saying it, it is kind of hard to tell who's who. That doesn't surprise me, but I find him doing nothing more a whole lot of time other than laughing. You know, in soap operas they have to do that a lot because people just tune in and they haven't tuned in in a long time, so it'd be like I'll be talking and you'll go, you know Jonah, I'd be calling you Jonah.

That's who that is. Oh, that's Jonah. I got it. So I'm actually surprised that Jeff Samet didn't get that role I don't know maybe he didn't want to get up in the mornings or whatever because I think he is a young and up I don't know how young he is but he's an he's been young for a long time he's come a long way from from being the voice behind Schultz's mustache and Vito in Woodbridge which is probably not appropriate anymore I don't know listen at night sometimes he's on and on weekends when I'm driving around to hockey

ranks with my kids, I think he's good. And I think he knows his stuff and I think he has a lot more knowledge base than Russick does. That's just, again, one man's opinion. Who's the third person on the Blundell show? There's a female. Oh, uh... Is she just doing the news breaks or does she actually

converse with them? I think it's Kayla Harris harry kayla kayla yeah i remember the job opening they were looking for somebody and then i had an insider tell me they're actually looking for like a young female like they actually wanted a young female she comes in and does traffic i believe i don't i think russic does the news okay he certainly does this he does a god-awful spot called Georgia's News. And I got to tell you, every time they push Georgia's News, I got Costanza in my mind. Oh, that's funny. Is that like the Humble Report? It's just like News of the Warriors. That's the cue to switch. Fascinating. Okay. So sounds like mornings in Toronto, it sounds like we're underserved.

I agree. It's a little bit, here's what you like this. Mornings in Toronto on the radio are like Leaf games on the radio. That's your analogy. Now, you travel quite a bit, so you probably hear sports radio from other cities. I do. I don't. I never hear anything but Toronto sports radio.

So I lack that perspective. Are other cities better served by their sports radio than Toronto. So this is the first market that I've been in that for an extended period and not that long that we seem to be dancing around not wanting to just have the pure jock talk in the morning. And I don't know why, but there seems to be this pressure to not have it. And that doesn't satisfy the... Yeah, you're right. Like I, for example, I went to bed fairly early last night.

I wanted to hear all about what LeBron did. Like I want to hear about that Cavs game. The NBA playoffs are still on? Yes, they are. They're up three. I think both sides could be a sweep, I heard. You certainly wouldn't know by listening to the morning radio. Is that right? See, yeah, I missed that on that.

But like he had a triple-double or something. I'm just fascinated by the greats of games. I get really enamored by those LeBron types. Right. Michael Jordan, those guys, Tiger Woods, whatever. Sidney Crosby. So I was fascinated by the triple-double. And he's got the team, his home team.

We're up 3-0. I could just listen to that. Yeah, so you've got to tune into the Hayes show and the Brady and Walker show because that's where it's coming. I mean, Macko and Cause, I think, actually do a pretty good job. And Blair, I'm not sure there's anybody better in the market on baseball than Jeff Blair. He's definitely the most improved guy because I had a commute when he started.

And he was really bad as a broadcaster, I felt, at the beginning. And just his delivery and the hums and the haws and the ums. See, it's funny. I always thought that was a little bit of intended delivery. It never bothered me. And there are people whose delivery does bother me. I just never saw it. First of all, I think he's a fantastic writer.

His opening monologue, if you will, is usually the best part of the show. I think he's really good, but he knows his stuff, and I think he's pretty pragmatic, actually. You know, it was sad when I heard Gian Gomeschi didn't write his opening essay. Okay, I hope Jeff Blair is writing that. It reads a lot like his columns do,

so I'm pretty sure he does. Tim and Sid were the one o'clock show on The Fan, and they were very popular. Like, I know people who swear by Tim and Sid were the one o'clock show on the fan and they were very popular. I know people who swear by Tim and Sid and now they're off the air right now because they're coming back on television. And Brady and Walker have the time slot. So what did you think of this move

to take kind of a popular show like Tim and Sid and just kind of take it down for a couple of months and then bring it back in a different format. Well, I mean, remember, so they came from the score where they were doing it before. My sense is they're probably, unlike you and I, well compensated. And sitting in that graveyard shift of radio, there's probably not a great ROI on that investment, where the TV side, there's a much bigger upside to make some money. I think they're better suited for it.

I heard a rumor like eventually Bobcat's got to retire, right? Like eventually. Well, he's 162 now. That's a year for every game the Jays will play this year. That's right. So what does the post-Bobcat future look like on primetime? So that's a fascinating question. Talk to me about it.

Well, it is because i don't know you know they i don't know who they would think right now is the heir apparent to the show um i think they'd love to probably get dan shulman to come back and do it because he did it once before but i'm not sure if that's happening anytime soon i can't imagine why he would do that but yeah so let's let's run through the candidates you got. They bring in Elliott Friedman from time to time, and I think he's good. But does he really want to give up the grind or the pleasure of being a hockey insider?

Blair's there. Brady and Walker. It's interesting because Brady's bounced around that station agenda schedule, I should say, numerous times. So he came in as an afternoon guy, took the morning show, was there for a while, now he's back to afternoons. I could see those guys doing primetime because they know how to do interviews, but I'm not sure. I mean, do they have to go outside the station to find somebody? I think it's a fascinating road to who's next.

What's Bobcat's contract status? Do you know when it's a fascinating road to who's next what's bobcat's contract status do you know like when it's up or anything like that so i don't know officially i know he signed his last extension i believe was a six-year extension i think that was two three years ago so i think he's got some runway left um listen he he's you probably know better than I do how often he's on there. He takes quite a bit of vacation as he always has. I'll say this. He, he, he is still today the best interviewer in town when he's interested. So when he's talking baseball for sure, uh, he's interested when he does the one thing in my mind better than anyone else does.

And that's, he listens to an answer. A lot of times, a lot of the hosts, you can, you can almost feel like they've got a list of questions in front of them and they're going to go to that list no matter what, no matter what the answer is. And McCowan, if somebody says something, he picks up on it and he may make a complete right turn down a path. He had no idea they were going to go down uh and follow that because somebody has said something that's intrigued him and that to me is is the fine art of interviewing there's very few who do a really good job at it he's the best i agree 100 and when he's yeah when

he has a right i used to love him with burt sugar correct i used to love i could listen for hours just talking old box and stuff like the late great bururt Trigger. No, but he did an interview a couple years ago where he did it with Brian Colangelo. And McCowan is clearly not an X's and O's basketball guy, but he was clearly in that zone that day. And Colangelo would say something

and be like, wait, wait, wait, what did you just say? You could just clearly tell he was engaged. Right. When he is engaged, there's no one better and not only that he seems to ask a lot of the questions that the common fan would probably be asking themselves in the car at the same moment right would want to know and uh as opposed to going through that regular list of okay so on to the next question right it's like they open the door and it's like i'm not going in because i'm going this way i gotta get to my next question I gotta go this way uh yeah uh I'm a big fan of the Bobcat show he's his negotiation contract negotiations remind me of

Howard Stern and that you know he'll make a lot of noise about them coming up and he's going to retire whatever but then he always signs locks in for another whatever five years or whatever well like like well they don't take a step back right the guy shows guy shows up, shows on from four to seven, five days a week, minus whatever vacation that he's earned. Yeah. I'm not going to say it's not that tough a gig, but if somebody's going to write a big check

to show up for three hours worth of work every day, and he's still good at it, and he's still relevant, why not? What do you think of the possibility that Tim and Sid go off to do their show and then they drop in as the uh primetime sports replacement so the only reason i would find that really surprising is that in my mind it would be a very far departure from what primetime

sports was supposed to be and that is you know it's the nightline of sports you know like back in the day when the big event happened you tune into ted koppel and watch nightline you know go back to the great moments of primetime sports and you know when the baseball strike was going on the big bad one he had don fear on all the time he had bud sealing on the time you know whenever there's a scandal there's a big news story, the Islanders, ownership problems, not these guys, the last guys. He gets Batman on. He gets the best.

He gets the newsmaker of the day on. So if there's a story about the Phoenix Coyotes going bankrupt, he gets those guys on. And there's always a story like that. Always. And so if they were going to go Tim and Sid, that would be, to me, a huge departure from what that time slot is.

Right. And I'm sure they'd have to ban the... Where do we actually... You normally... Oh, come on, Mike. You don't have it? Oh, I do have it. Oh, hold on. So none of that... That wouldn't sound right, I don't think, on Primetime Sports. How many weeks a year does Steven Brunt work? I've heard the number, and I think it's in the 20s.

That many? I don't know about work. I mean on Primetime Sports, I mean. That I don't have. I want to say it's in the 20s, I believe. Don't quote me on that, except I've just now said it on your show. You've been quoted. I think he's a fantastic co-host of Primetime Sports.

So to me, he is the most underutilized asset that they have. I said that I thought Blair was one of the best writers and he's the best on baseball. Brunt's the guy whose opinion I want to hear on this subject. Is he always right? No. Do I always agree with him? No. But man, the guy whose opinion i want to hear on the subject is he always right no uh do i always agree with him no but man the guy can just plain old right and he talks the same way and i think uh no matter the subject i'm actually interested in hearing his take and i just can't you know

somebody told me that you know they'll send him on location to do something so down to the dominican or to florida or somewhere to do something. So down to the Dominican or to Florida or somewhere to do something. And the production of that for TV will take a week. But you only get him on the radio for a day. And I'm like, man, what a missed opportunity. Because as you said, there's always stuff going on. Right. And I think he is.

I think he's just phenomenal. I think he's such a good writer. And I like his insight. And I just don't think we get enough of it. Agreed. Look, I'm agreeing with you all over the place we're not supposed to agree somebody told me it's like having the big bertha in the golf club in the golf bag and not being able to use it yes yeah i know i always know i know that we don't hear him enough and i know it's

his decision clearly like you can tell that you can tell it's his call that's my opinion i don't know for sure but i think i think brunt is like just he limits his exposure or he likes lots of newfoundland vacation time i don't know what's going on i don't know whether it's his choice or otherwise i can tell that i think that the fan not capital f fan like 590 but right you and i the fan is uh i think there's a lot more appetite oh for sure because especially when the the other guy who does it, there's another guy. What's his name? Ken Reed. Yeah. What a difference. It's like, please, you go from Stephen Brunt to Ken Reed. And Ken, if you're listening, nothing personal, but not my cup of tea. Just not. don't understand it's such a great show what he needs is a little bit of a foil and somebody who has some uh x's and o's understanding and can provide that right so when the topic is something

like sports media like broadcast contracts right shannon's fantastic right um when he brings on other guys you know he brings on ellie he brings on kiprio so you know whoever right they add that i don't and again nothing personal against sure yeah of course i don't know what he brings i don't understand what of what mccowan's missing that ken reed brings to the table you go oh okay i want to hear what he has to say i agree again uh let's just change channels a little bit and talk about uh hockey coverage do you first of all do you watch hockey? I do. Okay. What do you think of our first, what is it, 12-year deal of Rogers Hockey? So I don't love it.

I'm not like, oh my God, I think they're doing such a fantastic job. I certainly don't hate it. I don't look at that and go, oh God, this is awful. Listen, I think human beings in general have a very difficult time with change. So I think that the minute you change something,

you rile people's responses. I don't think they've done anything horrible. I don't think the coverage is any worse. I don't think the games are anything worse. I don't think the play-by-play is fine. At the end of the day, I just don't think it makes, I don't think it's all that different. We still get to watch two teams play hockey for

an hour. These guys calling the games are the same guys that were calling the game for the most part. They certainly are. They brought back Roman. Exactly. So for the most part, I just don't see it as that big of a deal. Why it's been deemed such a big deal is because of the money tied to it. And

with big dollars come big expectations. Take a step back like what else could they do to make it quote unquote worth the money or make it phenomenal i'm really not sure you mentioned hating the change like so there's a couple of changes that are sort of they've changes one change i don't like is i happen to love the nhl playoffs as many many canadians do and i loved like settling in at let's say, 8 o'clock for the game, and you got that montage that Thompson, Tim

Thompson? Correct. Yeah. At Boundless on Twitter. Yeah. He would put together, just set the stage so brilliantly. Great montage, usually to a really cool tune or whatever. And now, he's not doing that. And I'm always left missing him.

I miss his work. I'm with you. And so there's little things like that that they kind of took out. And I'm not sure. I can't imagine Tim Thompson was holding out for big bucks or whatever. I don't understand why you make those changes. It's not for the better. That's for sure.

You know, so I liked his work. I thought he did a really good job. I liken it to you know walking into um maple leaf gardens as a kid and you'd hear i think what the name was was it paul dennis they used to do that oh no paul morris paul morris sorry paul dennis i think is a video coach or something you know you used to hear paul morris and at exhibition stadium it was was it murray oliver no it was uh great aim with name yeah it's funny because i just thought because speaking of f P, he

worked with this guy back in the late 70s. So whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. You go to a Leaf game now and you... Eldon. Marie Eldon. Marie Eldon, was that okay? You go to the ACC now and it's great. It's just different. Yes. Potato, potato, right?

No, true. And you're right. Somebody's made, someone ultimately has made a stylistic decision that what those montages were, obviously, I'm with you. I don't think it could have come down to money. I'd be shocked if it was.

It probably just wasn't a Rogers idea, so why don't we try something different? Yeah. Maybe somebody putting their own stamp on it, which is fine.

And this is just me, you know, 40-year-old Mike, who just maybe he doesn't like change. Maybe he likes it, he liked it the way it was. So 43-year-old Mike, who just maybe he doesn't like change. Maybe he likes it. He liked it the way it was. So 43-year-old Jonah just doesn't get all riled up about stuff like that.

I just find that, listen, I did like it. I used to comment on it. I used to talk about it. I don't anymore. It is what it is. It is what it is. And my thoughts on hockey and Rodgers doing hockey is we we go we tune in for the game like all the stuff around the game this window dressing and stuff it's all nice

and it would be good if the pre-game show was better or whatever but you know we come for the game the game is the game it still looks good on my hd tv and the guys calling the game are the same guys i wish we had more bob cole because i love. I know I get a lot of people who, yeah, they love Bob Cole. You hate him, I think, but I love Bob Cole. He makes a good game, makes it great. And we lost him after two rounds this year. Like he's not calling anything in the third round. So I'm with you.

So I'm a huge Bob Cole fan. We gotta stop agreeing on everything. So I'm a huge Bob Cole fan and I don't care that he messes up. He's just got such a great voice. The knock against him is he's calling the wrong names. He's never bothered me. And he...

Play-by-play guys, in my mind, they're atmospheric. The color guy provides the context and some learning, if you will. He adds atmosphere and he makes the game enjoyable and he's clearly into it. And you're right. Either love him or you hate him. And you can say the same thing about Joe Bowen.

You love him or you hate him. Joe Bowen. I sense Homerism at its worst, if you will. We're with Bob Cole. I never sensed that. Like he could be calling Ottawa versus Montreal. It could be leaves versus Buffalo.

It didn't matter to me. Well, cause to, you know, to his credit, you know, Bob Cole wasaves versus Buffalo. It didn't matter to me. Well, because to his credit, Bob Cole was doing national games. Right, right, right. So he always had the national audience, whereas Joe Bone is the voice of the Maple Leafs. Yes, no, and it's true.

But again, somebody is probably, first of all, I don't know how old Bob Cole is and you're online there. I'm not. You could probably figure it out. He's probably like 81 or something. So the fact that he does whatever number of games that he does is

pure joy. And I think we are being treated right now to... We got the cherry on the cake with the games that we get from the guy because I love listening to him. And I'm not sure who's next. I mean, the only guy out there who I can think of who does as good

a job delivering play-by-play in hockey for me right now, I'm a huge Kenny Daniels fan. I think he does a really good job. Okay, interesting. When it comes to the voices we have now, I happen to really like Paul Romanuk. I liked him before, and he went off to England. I think his wife got a good gig, and he went off there.

And you could see him sometimes doing like maybe a spengler cup for example and i tuned into the spengler which you know hey there's a guy there's lonnie bohannes right and uh you know he'd be calling that i'd go oh you know he's great and they brought him back and it's nice to have him back and i understand the deal that houston has uh something in his contract says he's the number one guy this is what i've been told anyway i've heard the same thing so he's gonna be the guy calling the final so I've been told anyway. Right, I've heard the same thing. So he's going to be the guy calling the finals. So I used to gripe and bitch about the fact, hey, Bob Cole should be calling the finals,

but clearly that's never going to happen again. Yeah, that would surprise me. Well, he doesn't even get the... Correct. Given his age, I would be surprised by that. Listen, again, I think it really comes down to what you like. And I think it's flavors of ice cream, right?

That's why there's 31 of them at one store. We all have different tastes. I am not, and again, it's not personal. I'm just not a big Jim Hewson fan, I think. Me neither. Although he was the voice of my, was it NHL 97? I think he's still on those. Is he still doing this?

I used to call my goals, which is cool. But I associate Jim Hewson. But you mispronounced your name. him i associate it's hard to do mine i associate jim huston with canucks games i'm with you you know he's a west coast guy right and when i lived on the west coast we used to get an awful lot of jim houston and it just again not my cup of tea doesn't mean he's bad at his job just i don't care i don't enjoy listening to him call a game as i do others the other significant change rogers made and i'm interested in your opinion on this one, is so we used to have Ron McLean was like your host guy.

And now that's clearly George Strombolopoulos. He's your host. Full disclosure, I'm a big Strombo fan. I've been for a long time. But mainly because of his love of music, not because of his love of hockey. But I find him to be a very good interviewer. And I find him to be a sincere, decent guy.

See there, now we can finally disagree. Okay, let's go. Again, so he's another one that I agree with you. I like his color in areas outside of sports. I don't think he, I'm not quite sure and it's not a knock on him personally. I'm not sure what he really brings

to the table with regards to the broadcast. I don't get anything from him that I'm not getting from other people. That's a fair point, because my love of Strombol always comes back to... You're not supposed to agree. You're supposed to tell me... You've sold me, but...

You're supposed to tell me he's like the man. Get him to talk to us about The Clash, for example. I'm in. I'll do hours. No, no, I'm in. I'm in, right? Love it or hate it, when McClane used to interview gary betman you just

knew there were fireworks coming yeah um love it or hate it he had those the one-liners coming out of coach's corner and he did the thing with uh the hot stove interview after second period at least i i felt and it's not nostalgia i I felt like he brought more than Strombo is. And it's a weird choice to me. They're trying to get hipper and younger, but they went with like a 43-year-old guy. It didn't sound like they really... Right.

And again, I've never tuned in and said, God, I can't wait to see what he's going to ask or I can't wait to see what he's going to do. But you are interested in his shoes, maybe. Always. Do you get, would I get emails about his pants? Do you get, like, do people telling you that they can't stand Strombo's pants?

Well, the tweets that you get are like, are you watching, like, it's not ever about the content. It's always about something else. I had, so I asked Strombo, because initially he got a lot of negative feedback, if you will, and he was saying... But that again saying but that's but that again so that's change change yeah people don't like change they miss ron mcclain there and

uh he he actually was very honest about how he thinks the rest of canada so the non-toronto crowd sees him as his words uh queen street he's queen street downtown toronto and he said it was actually uh he used the word homophobic, but not in that, he's not homosexual, but in that they, that queer Queen Street person, they don't like him.

We don't like that. Who? Outside of Toronto? Canadians outside of Toronto. Don't like him. Right. So I would, I mean,

the first I've heard this, so my thought would be. You haven't listened to that episode? I missed that episode. So my thought would be that, first of all, there is this feeling out there that if it's from Toronto, we're not going to like it. And it's too Toronto-itized anyways.

So no matter who they put on, if they're from Toronto, it's just more Toronto. But he's Queen Street Toronto. Yeah, I don't get that. He thinks he's getting blowback that they just don't like him because he's Queen Street Toronto. Yeah, I don't get that. He thinks he's getting blowback that they just don't like him because he's Queen Street Toronto. He had piercings and he wears whatever.

Which never bothered me. Well, I like the fact that it is a more casual approach to hockey. Call me crazy, but I always find it funny that these guys get all suited up and they're all looking so fancy. When we're talking about hockey, you couldn't do it in hockey, but I love the fact that baseball managers wear the uniform.

You couldn't do that in hockey, could you? Don Cherry, last thing on the Rogers hockey. Now, he says, in my opinion, he says some stupid stuff. On purpose. As does McCowan, on purpose. Okay. So I preface it by acknowledging that he's a bit of a dinosaur in a lot of his outlooks. Okay.

Especially when it comes, in my opinion, when it comes to fighting or it comes with Canadian and Ontario born. And he seems very ethnocentric. And there's a lot of what Don Cherry says I don't agree with. But I actually stop what I'm doing. It's almost as appointment viewing to the point where I have, Don's coming up. I won't put my kid to bed. If my kid's time for bed, I'll wait till after Don and then we'll go to bed. I want to hear what Don Cherry says.

I love it. Okay. Okay. Can we, do we disagree on this one? Yes. Good. So to me, it's, to me, it's just, it's predictable and it's a waste of my time. No matter the issue, I know what he's going to say.

You didn't want to hear what he had to say about Babcock? Whenever something happens, like the Babcock signing, which is the big Toronto media news we didn't even talk about. By the way, the big sign that they put out,

MLSC, when Mike Babcock was introduced is, Welcome to Toronto, Mike. Mike, yeah. And I had a number of people letting me know of course exactly it's a race that comma so uh when Mike Babcock I was what does Don have to say

so let me I'm going to ask you the question why do you care what Don has to say I care because I care because uh I value his opinions on these things oh you do yeah okay I like to know what Don Cherry thinks these things when it comes to do? Yeah. Okay. I like to know what Don Cherry thinks of these things. When it comes to hockey, I find him to be a relatively smart hockey mind, and I like how he thinks. Sure, when it comes to, when he goes down the path of like, you have to fight to be this,

the fighting path, or about the whole, I think he values the Ontario player, or the Canadian player, in an antiquated fashion, like he's going back to the Summit Series or something. But he can't take that away. True.

That's who he is. So I think I take the good, I throw the bad and I take the good. I'm entertained by how he says, yeah, facts of life. Great show. George Clooney got his start on that show, by the way. Of course you know.

You got the DVD collection at home. Watch it every night. No, I'm just kidding. So a couple, here's my take. One, he has to be true to who he is. So he can't all of a sudden stop the fight talk because it's in his DNA. What's he at?

Like, rock him. Well, he's all in. You're right. He can't do a reverse on this one. So he's like, rock him, sock him 647, right? Yeah, yeah. He can't stop that. He can't stop the love of Ontario.

And he's smart enough to know that the vast majority of his audience is Toronto. So that's what he speaks to. So that's, I just find no matter the issue, he's predictable. I'll tell you what I love. I love the fact that he uses his icon and his power for good. Whether it's, you know, whether it's you know whether it's kids whether it's service people um talking military yeah yeah you know he's not afraid to cry on the air and he's not afraid to highlight something really important that we actually all should know about when he does

that stuff there's nobody better and i think he uses that power to educate the audience and bring people along for the journey and i think that's really impressive but do you think it's time for rogers to move on no why like okay you would be you would root for coach's corner to until he retires or dies i'm in the minority right like he's a lightning rod people get upset when he makes the comments about the fight to me it's don being don and but having said that, people like you stop what they're doing to hear what he's doing. What's the guy that used to be on 60 Minutes?

Andy Rooney. So it's him, right? Who I also enjoyed. So did I. Everyone tuned in every Sunday. You didn't watch the whole show, but you wanted to watch him. Why? Because he was just going to say something that was... And he used to write on typewriters until the very end. So he was going to get people riled up.

And Don does that. So just because I don't care for the schtick doesn't mean that they should take it off. I'll do an Andy... But he's predictable too. I'll do a little Andy Rooney. People don't write letters anymore. When was the last time you got an actual letter?

That wasn't a bill. Right. That's my Andy Rooney. It's pretty bad. I might have to edit that out of the podcast. Gosh, I just said an hour. We're at an hour, but I got a few more questions. Can I keep you a little longer? Yeah, go ahead. I'm still here. And this is a question where I don't even know if we should talk about it. I just want to talk to you about why we don't talk about it.

But I've had Mark Hebbshire on this show twice. Yes, guy. Yes, guy. That's how much I like Mark Hebbshire on this show twice yes guy yes guy that's how much i like mark hebbshire i said you got to come back a second i just like him to tell me so i actually told him i said mark you're coming back and you're going to come and tell me 10 stories have you had jim tatty on not yet but i should jim's a good guy i should get jim i'd like to see jim on the show the real yes guy he's the yes guy right and and let me let me say again, there are nights where I'm out driving from hockey rink to hockey rink with my kids

where I do listen to him and Hogan. It's actually a good slot for the two of them. They talk about like games and everything. Yeah. So let's say, oh, it's two to one in this game. They do. There are good foils for each other. And listen, it is what it is.

It's, you know, 930 at night and you're not listening to a game. I think they're actually pretty entertaining. And Jim does a good job. I was devastated when Jim Taddy left. No, Mark Hebshire left Sportsline, right? He left Sportsline, right? Well, did he go first?

No, one went first because I remember they were auditioning the replacements. I think that Gene Principe or something. And they were auditioning Barb DiGiulio. Right. But I digress. I missed those two together because that was my show. It was a great show. Well, McCowan started that show.

Yes, that's right. But I never saw it. I tuned in for Taddy and... This is Sportsline. Loved it. Loved it. So I love his storytelling. And he's got a million stories, Mark Hebbshire.

And I love the way he tells them. Which is like all I ever wanted to show is tell me an interesting story yeah so i'm like you're coming on tell me 10 so it's a second appearance the first time we go anyways he's been on twice all of this is to say uh you basically i'm a guy who follows him on twitter and he went there was only you can see a line a moment in time he flatlined yeah where basically the tweet stopped yep the blog stopped being updated he's not on the air so you don't have to be an insider to know something something what happened to hebsey correct i have people i know in the industry and we work in the industry and they've told me what happened okay okay but i've never tweeted it and i've never written about it and

you probably have people telling you what happened yep Yep. So we have both decided not to write about this. Correct. I'm not so sure why. I almost think I don't write about it because I almost feel like maybe it's not my story to tell or it's not something we need to put in the public at this point. Or it's because I like the guy. So to me, and I do like the guy, it has nothing to do with the fact that I like the guy. Well, I don't know why I don't write about it except that I don't feel like you write about that i like i don't know why i don't write about it except i don't feel like i can tell you why i don't write about it because i don't know it i'm it's not the type of rumor that you want to write if and i'm assuming

that we've heard the same stories um until you have it from one of the horse's mouth on the record the lawyer in me comes out i'm not printing that right one thing to to say, I've heard so-and-so is going to be moving from mornings to afternoons. It's another thing to say, I've heard so-and-so is no longer on the air and here's why. Not my place. And until somebody's ready to talk to me about that on the record, I'm not writing.

So once there's like, yes, it comes out in the public through some, then you can kind of. So I reached out to Mark when he went off the air and he responded right away until I asked the question and he hasn't. That's his right. That's his privilege. I'm not upset, but I'm not going there.

You know, there's a couple of things, right? There's a couple of things that I do believe are, you have to be smart when you write. Writing fact about people's jobs, I think, is a dangerous one. It's one thing to say, I've heard something. It's another thing to say, this is going to happen. And then, you know, death and health, I think, are pretty touchy subjects. Oh, for sure, for sure.

And, you know, we blog a lot. You only get that one time. I was thinking of Martin Streak's suicide. You just have to go to press once. And you're done. Yeah. Doesn't matter. You have 15 years of being right or whatever. There's no one sent.

Right. Exactly. I agree. Listen, I don't know exactly what happened. I've heard the same rumblings that you have. I hope he reappears in the market because I think the fans appreciate him. We won't talk about what happened except that I've been told

right now his status is suspended. Correct. I haven't heard he's been fired. Correct. I've heard the exact same thing. For the record, I asked Hebsey how he's doing and he said, I'm fine. I got the same response. The other guy people like to talk about in Toronto Sports Media And for the record, I asked Hebsey how he's doing, and he said, I'm fine. No, I got the same response. All right.

Now, the other guy people like to talk about in Toronto sports media who was recently sitting there, I mentioned he's actually really tall, is Myrtle. So what do you think of Myrtle? So I'm a James Myrtle fan. He is, I've never, I can tell you, I've never met him. My sense is that he's wicked smart. And with wicked smart people people they can be polarizing

figures um so i think he's smarter than than a lot of others out there he certainly is one of the pioneers in this market on the whole stat side of hockey and for sure and that is again seems to be a theme today that is is change. And people don't necessarily like change. And the written word, unlike the spoken word, it's kind of sometimes hard to articulate or understand perspective. And in writing, sometimes you can come across as a little bit cocky or being a know-it-all, smirky, if you will. And my sense from him is he's not that way. But I think when you're writing on something that you know more knowledge or you have a new point of view it comes across and it bothers people

what do you think of steve simmons listen steve's a steve is must read on sunday mornings right um he's had at some point i think he was actually on with tattydy on the fan. The early days of the fan, I remember him being on the radio. But Steve is must read every Sunday morning. It's like when you get the bad small cup of coffee on a Sunday. When Simit isn't writing on Sunday, it's a bad day. Been in the market a long time, knows his stuff. I think he's controversial, and I think he's intentionally controversial. But he's a sports writer in the year 2015, are we in?

Who's been at it for a long time. Long, long time. Him and Damien Cox are two guys. I can't really remember the sports media world without him. Right, because we're roughly the same age. They've been writing for most of our adult lives. Yeah, so I used to get the tone. I never had Simmons.

I get the star was delivered. So, I mean, that mullet picture of Damien Cox. Right, exactly. Forever. Okay, great. And who's the other chap? Oh, yeah. So, Howard Berger.

Does he ever get another gig, a mainstream media gig in the city? So, to me, that's really sad. You know, growing up in this town, Howard broke stories, right? Like, you wanted to hear when Howard was on the radio, cause he would have juicy rumors, right? He'd have good insight. He seemed to know everybody. And then in my mind, right around the time I started writing, actually Howard took a turn and you said that Joe Bowen was a Homer. Howard was a Homer, right? Like, yeah, for sure. He was a Maple Leaf fanard was a homer right like yeah for sure he was a maple leaf fan

turned reporter and there's no problem with that everyone knew it um for whatever reason you know the you know mid 2000s if you will he seemed to start swaying to the negative side i remember him once on trade deadline day just ranting and raving almost like a lunatic on the radio that Pat Quinn, I think it was, who was the GM at the time, didn't come down and address the media after. And everyone was like, who cares? Move on. But everything became so negative that it became predictable. He stopped being the insider who was breaking news and started becoming this Maple Leaf pessimist. In my mind, he lost his edge, which is really unfortunate

because I think he did that job really well. And there's a void. He's the reason I think we have Elliot Friedman today because I believe it was his father, I believe, was friends with Elliot's father. Elliot tells this story and I can't remember the details. But the reason he got a gig at interning at the fan back in the day is through Howard

Berger. So Howard wrote, I think for a bit for the National Post while he was writing for Hockey Buzz. He's got his own blog. I think it's called Berger Bites. It looks like he spends as much time taking photos as he does writing. I do see him tweet

from times like he tweeted after the babcock yeah um but that's a story that howard would have broke right like howard would have been if i would have been on that private jet it would have been howard right right and uh listen i think it i think it's a shame that the guy hasn't found a gig um i don't know exactly what happened and listen he it got to the point at the end where I was a very anti-Howard commentator. And I do. I think it's a shame that he hasn't resurfaced

somewhere. You mentioned polarizing figures and you mentioned when we talked about Myrtle. The other polarizing guy, maybe the most polarizing guy, one of the most polarizing guys in this city is Mike Wilner. I don't know if you get that vibe. Some people just can't stand his condescending,

they call it condescending. Well, he is. Arrogance. So to me, you have to take a step back. And the guy has been doing Blue Jays talk for 10 years, at least 10 years. Since Scott Ferguson went to TSN, not TSN, the team. 10, 15.

Probably more than 10 years ago, right? Yeah, whatever that was. So, you know, you're doing post for the most part, and he does more. So apologies, but go with me here for a second. He does post-game call-in shows, and where the vast majority of callers are, let's trade so- so for so and so despite the fact that you've been on the phone holding for 45 minutes right to enlighten us all with the brilliant trade ideas and willard's got to take it every stinking night right from these

guys and sometimes even at like 12 30 one o'clock two o'clock in the morning because they're on the west coast oh and i'm not sure if he does now, but for the most part, I'm pretty sure when the team travels, he stays here. So I think let me start by saying, you know, in summation, it can be a shitty job. Others who have had the job have told me it's the best job because it's the best way to talk to the fan. I think in the grand scheme of things, I think it's a tough gig. the fan. I think in the grand scheme of things, I think it's a tough gig. So I don't know how you don't come across after doing it for that long as a little bit condescending and a little bit of a smartass because there's only so many times you can hear the same thing and only so many times you can say

the same thing. Should he be calling John Gibbons Gibby? Come on. This is my maybe we can have a... Okay, go ahead. But they all do it. I know they all do it. And I don't like them all doing it. I don't like any of it. I don't understand why a reporter or a person who covers a team calls the Gibby nickname...

But you listen to Mike Richards in the morning. He brings on Darren Dreger. He calls it Bacon and Dregs. Like, you've got to be kidding me. How do you not have some degree of professionalism? But to me, at least that's different. But if you're covering a guy like how can you be impartial to covering this manager you call gibby i i just seem i don't like

it i don't listen i i find it corny whatever i listen i think mike has a tough job uh i think it's really bleeping cool that the guy who started as just that now now does some play by play like the guy's yeah the guy has advanced his career a long way. And go back, as Elliot has as well, right? It is nice, as Strombo has, Tim and Sid. It is nice to see guys who've come from, quote-unquote, the mailroom, to much bigger presences. I think that's fantastic.

But no one's risen as high as Dan Schulman. No, well, there you go, right? There you go. And you know what? I have kept you here an extra 15 minutes, but I was going to ask you really quick hits on some people, like Bruce Arthur, for example. What do you think of Bruce?

So I'm a big fan. I find his tweets hilarious. He tweets a lot. I like his articles. I don't understand. Maybe I'm just oblivious to it. He seems to piss a lot of people off, including Al Strachan, for one. But I don't understand. Maybe I'm just oblivious to it. He seems to piss a lot of people off, including Al Strachan, for one.

Is Al Strachan still working? He tweets. I don't know if anyone pays him. But I don't get it. I don't understand why people are so bothered by him. Lundell hates Bruce Arthur. I think Bruce Arthur is a very left-leaning, liberal kind of...

He would blow up on you if you used the term, you'd throw a girl or something. I think he's very that way, and I think a lot of people, more conservative, socially conservative-minded people, they clash. I just don't take things so seriously. I find a lot of what he tweets is being funny,

and if I don't agree with him politically, then... I actually do agree with him politically, then fine. I mean, I actually do agree with him politically, but, you know. I really don't consider it. So, Bruce Arthur, I actually think... I'm a fan. I have to get him on here, actually. He'd be good.

What about Dave Festchuck? You know, he's written some pretty interesting articles. I think he's a good writer. And like most, hit or miss, right? Like, to me, he's not must-read. There's articles where he's a good writer and like most, hit or miss, right? To me, he's not must read. There's articles where he's been bang on. There's articles where he's been controversial and there's articles that I really don't care.

And Cathal Kelly. Did I say his name right? I think so. I know there are those who really love his work. I'm not one of those. I just find, I think he's the one who wrote the article about Tim Lewicki. I think it was him who wrote, you know, we'll never find another guy like him.

I think he goes overboard quite a bit. A lot of exuberance. He's a good tweeter though, actually. I think he's a funny, clever tweeter. Yeah, again, so to me, he's not one of the guys I'm like, oh my god, that just happened. I can't wait to see what he had to write. Who's the best Toronto sports media personality working today? Who is your favorite of all of them?

The best personality? Who's your favorite? Let's start with that one. Who's your favorite? So if something big happens, I want to hear McCowan, and I want to hear McCowan's guess. He's number one. He still is.

I think I'm a huge i think you know when you talk about what was going on with with babcock and you talk about rumors and innuendo and all that if if bob mckenzie hasn't tweeted or reported it it hasn't happened he's the king yes so until like he doesn't really make mistakes So until he's put it up until he's hit send, uh, I don't believe it. Um, I like Simmons and Cox people like, how can you tweet both of them?

I'm like, cause they're both good. Like you don't have to agree with them. Right. Right. But I think they're both good. Like, listen,

I think there's a lot of really good qualified people. I think Dave Naylor does a good job. Uh, I think his show has come a long, long way. It is a really good alternative to McCowan. McCowan has, especially when Ken Reed is on, is talking about something.

I do hit the button on my drive home, and I stay there a lot longer. Whether he has Arthur on, whether he has Simmons on. He had Arash Medan. Did he have Rashmadan? Somebody did last week and it's good radio. Cool. Who's the, like the best young gun or rising star or whatever?

Like who's, who's the next one? In this market? Like the Brady and Walker count. Cause they're good. And, and, and, you know, somebody was asking about Brian Hayes. I think those three guys are really strong. I'll go back to Jeff Salmon again. I'm surprised he hasn't found a more regular niche or slot.

Is he blacklisted due to his veto from Woodbridge persona? Is this something? God, I hope. I really hope. I'd really like to think that that's not the case. I got another Twitter question real quick. I realize I missed it, but somebody tweeted a question for you which is how will bell and rogers impact service into 2016 will they introduce even more channels to broadcast behind further paywalls

so i guess there's a fear of putting i guess is that suggesting that like if i want to see leaf games it's going to be on it won't be on over the year. No, it's not called over the year anymore. It won't be on. Yes, regular stations that are on my TV upstairs. I don't know. I think 2016, I don't think much is going to change. Are we getting more to where you're going to buy a Leaf package to get all your Leaf

games the way you can buy Center Ice? Probably. Listen, there are two big companies that are in the business of making money. So whatever they need to do to make money and Rogers has a big nut now on the hockey deal to make more money. I always wondered how the Bell Rogers owning MLSE, like how can that kind of continue?

How does that work? So I don't believe it will. I don't think it can continue. I think one of them is going to have to buy the other one. I don't know. I like i don't think it can continue i think one of them is gonna have to buy the other one out and i just think it's a matter of time but that's just especially now you have little interesting little things developing like i noticed uh when they announced the the bemo field the argos we're gonna play a bemo and bell so bell owns argos now uh for those who missed it bell owns half of the argos okay and rogers on zero part of the art right

but right and then I guess, uh, there was someone, someone, they said, Oh, someone at Rogers leaked the Babcock news or something to take away from the Argos press. Anyway,

like, is this kind of crap going to happen for, for how long? So I hadn't heard about the leak. I mean, that would be quite, that would be quite hilarious. Cause I don't know how many people were,

were like sitting on the edge of their seats, dying to hear the Argos sale news. Only the TFC fans because I saw they tried to have some kind of protest against it on the weekend. I just don't know how big of a story it was to begin with. I think it was on, timing was somewhat unfortunate as this was all unraveling. I don't think it was necessarily planned. Right. But I think it was Lewicki who came out and said, you know, I wake up, you know, I go to board meetings

with two guys who wake up every morning trying to kill the other. Yeah, exactly. How do you do business that way? Well, it's unsustainable. Fascinating. What an age we live in. Yes. Okay, I see on your website, torontosportsmedia.com,

that you have a blog role. Yes. You have a blog role. Yes, I do. So two questions. One is... Why aren't you on it? Well, first question is, who has a blog role anymore? What is this, one is why aren't you on it well first question is

who has a blog role anymore what is this 2006 i know i gotta take it off but that no you can't take it off because you haven't added me that's my second how do i get on your blog role consider it done this is all i just had to have you there you go that's awesome did i miss any big names that i should have been asking you about no i don't think so. I think we certainly went round and round and round again. And I think, as I said, the concluding statement would be is that people don't like change. So I think...

So don't change. You've got to ride things out a little bit. Don't ever change. Jonah from Toronto Sports Media, it's nice to finally meet you. Absolutely. But like Mike and Boss, and who bought me a beer in Liberty Village,

I'm going to buy you a beer. Perfect. That'll make it all even. And that brings us to the end of our 122nd show. You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto Mike and Jonah is at YYZ

Sports Media. See you all next week where my guest should be steve anthony i wanna take a streetcar downtown