Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Josh Matlow: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1716

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

In this 1716th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Toronto City Councillor for Ward 12-St. Paul's Josh Matlow about why he voted against the bubble zone bylaw, whether he's seen the new Rob Ford doc on Netflix, what makes him so popular in his ward, whether he'll run for mayor again and more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Hi this is Ernie Witt, you're listening to Toronto Mic. Welcome to episode 1716 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Yes, we are open! An award-winning podcast from Monaris hosted by FOTM Al Greggo. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Get your butts to Christie Pitts this summer for the best baseball in the city, outside the dome RecycleMyElectronics.ca

Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past Building Toronto Skyline A podcast and book from Nick Ienies, sponsored by Fusion Corp. Construction Management Inc. and Redlee Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto Mike debut, it's Josh Matlow. Welcome Josh. I'm delighted to be here Mike. Can I turn the table on you and ask you a question? You know what? I will not allow that.

This conversation's over. No, just kidding. I'm here. I mean, this is a coup. I'm taking over. You know what? It's about time. Yeah.

1716 episodes and I've been waiting for a guest to just take over. Yeah. Okay. Good luck getting to 1,717. So you've done that many. What inspired you to do this? You are talking to all sorts of interesting Torontonians, people doing things in our city that, I mean, I've followed you.

It's always entertaining. You'll learn a lot. But what inspired you? I was producing the Humble and Fred podcast in 2006 because Humble and Fred were a radio. Do you remember listening to Humble and Fred were a radio, do you remember listening to Humble and Fred? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Because I got a few years on you, but earlier I should tell the listenership before I press record we were talking about Shakespeare, My Butt by Lowest of the Low.

I called you Josh, Matt, Lowest of the Low. Love it. Okay. And then we talked about the watchmen. Oh yeah, I sang, oh yeah, I needed to make an adjustment in my, I had a power outage yesterday and to reset all the settings and I had to put it back in stereo. And then I started singing My Life Is a Stereo.

And then we started talking about The Watchmen. I didn't even know they were still performing. Not only performing, but I think they're better than ever. Like I also saw them quite a bit in the nineties. And again, I saw them a couple of Saturdays ago and I was at the Danforth Music Hall thinking, these guys sound better than ever. Well, but isn't that true of so many of us from Gen X?

I like to think. I think, I think, I think I like what you're selling there, Josh, you kidding me? Okay, so back to podcasting. So throughout the 90s, where I would hear my lowest of the low and my watchman was 102.1 The Edge. Yeah. CFNY. Yes. My morning show throughout the 90s were a

couple of guys named Humble and Fred. Well we became friends because I had a blog and I would write about them and they got fired from Mix 99.9 and Humble and Fred couldn't get a radio job to save their lives. They could not get hired by a radio station. So guess what Josh Josh? What? I said, okay, this is 2006. I said, guys, you don't need a radio station to broadcast in 2006. There's a burgeoning new format. iTunes just added it.

It's called podcasts. If you can record a sweet MP3, I know how to get that to the listenership without a terrestrial radio signal. So you were part of this pioneer. I'm like the Canadian podcast godfather. Okay, so I basically did that. Yeah, I put that on my LinkedIn because I was on a podcast and somebody introduced me as that.

I said, okay, that's ridiculous, but I'm going to steal that and use it because I'm not sure it matters. What's truthful anymore? We can talk about that later, but I'm like, I'm using this. But okay, so fast forward, 2011, we're doing a daily Humble and Fred show. I think two weeks into that, I watched them for two weeks and they'd have people, they might have Josh Matlow over. But I felt like, okay, you got Josh there.

These are the questions people want you to ask Josh Matlow. So I said, hey, what if I left my comfort zone and I started my own show, bought my own gear, created this wonderful studio you're in now. This ain't the CBC, Josh. hey, what if I left my comfort zone and I started my own show, bought my own gear, created this wonderful studio you're in now, this ain't the CBC, Josh. And I just had Josh Matlow over and you know, for an hour I got to ask him all the annoying questions I have rattling around my brain. And that's how Toronto Mike was born. Well, and I love the environment. I mean, you've got everything from empty beer cans

to an old goalie mask, which you may or may not use for, you know, extracurricular cereal killing. It kind of looks like this. This is a very comfortable homey basement. Well, it's all organic, right? I didn't. It's just stuff, you know, guests come and give me stuff and it makes it like this cherry blossom. Rob Proust heard that I had never had a cherry blossom and then they stopped making cherry. That's right. Have you ever had a cherry blossom Rob Bruce heard that I had never had a cherry blossom and then they stopped making cherry That's right. Have you ever had a cherry blossom Josh Matlow? You know, I believe I have I believe I have just one That's how good it was. Well, what are you offering me the last cherry blossom ever ever made? I have a decision to make like do I actually eat this cherry blossom? It seems to be in some kind of wrapping here

I'm looking at like this is a bit of a marshmallow test because like, what if it's worth something in a few years where you can actually have like one of the last remaining cherry blossoms in Canada? But I would keep the box. Like the box would live forever in the studio. And then this, I would have, maybe I should actually, maybe I just thought of something, Josh. Maybe I should like do it live on a recording one day.

Maybe with Rob Proust, I should eat my cherry blossom and give it like a review. Right. So basically you'll completely devour the cherry blossom, leave the box and sort of like Toronto's heritage facades. It's a wonderful idea. And like this here, this is some kind of salad dressing and it's because Stu Stone came over and they used this to promote their movie, in my French Josh. Don't fuck with ghosts

which is a movie that Stu made of his brother-in-law and I got this and it just I'll never put it on salad I'll just have it here in the studio that that's amazing. You know years ago. I went to Clearwater, Florida with my wife. That's when we were you know, everyone was going to the States and I picked up a little bottle of hot sauce. Little did I know it was made by a Trumper and it was called Obama Trauma. And to this day, I still have the bottle.

Oh, Obama Trauma. See, those Trumper's, they can be clever sometimes, right? That's pretty clever. Sometimes. That reminds me of the chat we had outside when I was talking to my American neighbor, Erika, about her trip home, which is to a very blue state, Massachusetts,

and was shocked to find out members of her very own family are now Trumpers, and she told me she's not going back for the foreseeable future, and she is American, born and raised in Massachusetts. I mean, that's hard, though in in these days like families are having all sorts of difficult conversations or not you know sometimes they're not talking whether it be about you know Trump whether it be about what's going on in

the Middle East what it you know all COVID like people are having these not just disagreements but they're they just won't talk with each other they can't stand each other and sometimes that happens in families. I think that's part of the problem that we are facing in our society where we're all in our echo chambers and we're all seeking confirmation bias that we're not able to really listen or spend time with people that might have very different opinions. You're 100% right. But I, because I'm all about talking to people with different viewpoints and stuff. I really will have people over who I disagree with, I don't know,

politically or in whatever regard. But what I find frustrating lately is it's tough to have a conversation when you're speaking different languages. Like I had a chat with, uh, snow, you know, the song Informer. So we were chatting at Christie Pitts. We were there for a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game. He's the official ambassador. I want to tell you, Josh, I'm doing this right now, I have a book for you to take home with you.

It is the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. They play at Christie Pitts. That's Diane Sacks territory. That's so cool, thank you. My dear friend Diane. And I would just like to urge people to check out at Toronto Maple Leafs baseball game at Christie Pitts. Cause it's pretty damn awesome and no ticket required, Josh.

Thank you so much. That's really, I really appreciate that. But back to the snowman. Yeah. Who I've, I got a soft spot in my heart for the snowman. I love being in his orbit and chatting him up, but he was telling me like about something. I won't even tell you what he was telling me.

He was telling me something, truly believing it to be so it involved Donald Trump and some other I won't give any more specifics except to say I knew this was a hundred percent fiction but he's talking about like it's fact so it's tough to talk to people when there's like alternate I won't say alternate viewpoint it's more like this this fake, it was once referred to as alternate facts, which don't exist. Which is an oxymoron really, right? Alternate facts.

But it's essentially, if someone believes fully in something that is just simply not true, like you don't really have a starting point to converse about things. Yeah, it can be frustrating. It can be difficult. But I also think it's worth trying because sometimes you can bring people around,

sometimes you realize you're wrong. But if you're not talking, then everyone's on their own, whether it be Facebook groups, WhatsApp groups, and they're all sending each other articles or something they find in the internet to say, hey, look, we were all right. And they're not necessarily carrying what the source is. Have you noticed that?

No, they'll be like, oh, this domain. I'm like, oh, what does that mean to you? This isn't 60 minutes, like, although they'll tell you 60 minutes is fake news. What I'm curious about are the people who, whether you call them conspiracy theorists or they're, you know, they've arrived at these so-called alternative facts, which again are really just made up stories that give people comfort in some way. But what is the root of that? Like, why did you feel the need to go, that has to be my truth? What compelled you to arrive at that place and ignore all the existing truth in front of you and say that doesn't support

the belief that I need to have? No, absolutely. So you and I are on the same page where we need to talk because I'm going to ask you the same thing and we're going to get to know you better and we're going to go back and talk about things. But off the very top, I feel like one of those things we need to talk about to understand the context and the reasoning, because on a black and white level, you know, you might draw conclusions that might not be fair to anybody. But I did want to ask you off the top about the bubble zone legislation. Okay. Because you voted against the bubble zone bylaw, right?

And that restricts protests around places of worship, schools and childcare centers. So I want you now, you, Josh, to tell us why you voted against the bubble zone legislation? Because it wasn't a, it wasn't real. Uh, and B, um, it completely infringed upon, uh, uh, the charter rights of, and I'm going to say this very clearly, peaceful expression and peaceful assembly, meaning that, um, we have rights in Canada to, you know, come together peacefully and express ourselves. What we cannot do is cross the line toward targeted harassment, intimidation, hate or violence. In fact, there are already laws that say you can't

do that and I believe those laws should be effectively enforced. So the problem that I had with what the Merrin Council supported was a, if this was ostensibly about, let's be honest, this was about supporting in particular the Jewish community that has seen rising anti-Jewish hate. There's a lot of anxiety and fear in the community about that, understandably so. But the problem that the Jewish community is having is not what a bubble might do if even if it was done well, which is that there are no protesters showing up on Saturday mornings telling Jews that they're not allowed to go and pray. That's essentially what a bubble is designed such as what an abortion clinic bubble would be, which is that you're not

allowed to try to dissuade a woman from going into a clinic. What's happening is that there are targeted incidents of harassment, hate, intimidation in many other places. But it hasn't been Saturday mornings when Jewish people are going to shul. That all being said though, the way that this bubble would have worked is that rather than have police enforce when a real crime was committed, um, it was a mere bylaw, meaning that bylaw officers who don't even have the authority to break up a house party or, or deal with the leaf blower noise complaint, right? They are the ones who are supposed to somehow deal with people who are crossing the line. I think that's absurd. It also was very clear to counsel because it was in a confidential document that has been

revealed by the Toronto Star so I can speak to it. That the way that this was structured would not comply with the Charter, meaning that even if you like the bubble, which I thought was a stupid bubble in the first place, it would be thrown out in court pretty soon anyway. Ed Keenan will be, I should tell the listenership, Ed Keenan will be here in early July to talk on this very topic. Ed Keenan from the Toronto Star. And he wrote about it. I mean ultimately, I just, what I don't, I don't believe that we should ever infringe upon people's

charter rights to peacefully and freely express themselves because it might be something that we find offensive today, but ultimately tomorrow there could be a government in place that we would want to protest and we should have the ability to do that throughout our city as long as we are not targeting people with harassment, intimidation, hate or violence. What I do agree with is that there are many cases where when the law is broken,

it has not been effectively enforced. That's where the focus should be. And I also believe that we need to encourage better communication relationships amongst communities that are having geopolitical differences of opinion, but all agree that everyone should be safe in their city, nobody should be targeted with harassment or hate, and we need to rally around each other. So I've spoken with my Jewish friends and it sounds like since October 7th, it sounds like literally they will be leaving their place of worship, a synagogue, and protesters will be wishing death upon them. Yeah, that's against the law.

Right, so what you're saying, Josh Matlow, and it makes sense to me, is that TPS, the Toronto police, they already have this tool in their tool belt. We simply need to enforce it. Yeah. So you don't need this new bylaw. More than that, a bylaw, and I say this with humility because I'm a member of council, it is the lowest rung of any powers that any, like a bylaw enforcement officer literally doesn't have the power to break up a house party. It has no power of arrest. This is absurd. I saw what council did as performance art to kind of, you know, tick

off and said, Hey, we did something without actually doing something real. I also, in the same vein, don't believe that we should just arbitrarily go, screw the Charter of Rights. We don't care about that either. Especially when even the bubble itself would get thrown out in court and then nobody wins. So what we need to do is both have, you know, leaders from Muslim communities, Jewish communities, every community, you know, stand up together and say enough is enough, no harassment, no intimidation, no hate, let's come to the table rather than attack each other, and ultimately have political leaders who have the courage to say there are clear rights and wrongs in a civil society. If you want to peacefully express yourself, that's your right. If you cross the line, you may get arrested.

Amber Morley's been on the show a few times. She lives very close and she's my city counselor. I quite like Amber Morley. I started the grilled cheese challenge very recently. Yeah. So Amber also voted against this and I did get one message from a listener who, Hey ref, I hope to see you at TMLX 19 on June 26th. We're all collecting at Great Lakes Brewery Josh You're invited. Thank you. Okay, you'll get your first beer from Great Lakes on the house. I'm leaving with a beer Yeah, this is incredible. Well, you're it's more than that and then I'm gonna get back to this very important Thank you note from hey ref, but you got your fresh craft beer. Yeah, I'm also gonna give you Josh

You ready for this? I have a frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta and Palma Pasta is going to feed us all at TMLX19 on June 26th from 6 to 9 p.m. at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard down the street from the Costco here in South Etobicoke. That's Great Lakes Brewery. You're invited, everyone's invited, free food, free drink. I feel like I just won the lottery. This is incredible. Thank you so much, Mike. So this note I got was extreme disappointment that my friend and counselor,

Amber Morley, would vote against the bubble zone by law. And I my response was like simply like, I can't world will I can't live in this black and white world where voting against this somehow means you're anti-Semitic. I need to talk to people. I need to understand why. There may be greater reasons. Having this conversation with you is very enlightening, and I'm going to have a conversation like this with Ed Keenan coming up, who covers this for the star. But sometimes voting for something like this is a little bit of virtue signaling, right? Yes. Is that why you think it actually passed?

Yeah. I, I agree with you. You know, a lot of people, and I understand, listen, I knew like, I'm not a, like the moment that I voted against it, I knew that I was going to have some really difficult and emotional conversations with members of the Jewish community who would see this binary decision in front of them.

They've been told by people that, you know, if you vote for the bubble, then you care about the community and you care about what they're going through. And if you vote against it, you don't. And the reality is, I believe that most people along with the Jewish community, if they are feeling unsafe,

they want government to actually take real action to support them, not just do things to stick in our newsletters. That's what I saw happening. And I also don't believe that we should be ignoring people's basic charter rights, because all of us, like if we had a white supremacist government,

the Jewish community would be one of the first communities who would want to protest that. So, you know, I just think let's get real with people. Let's be honest about what we're voting on. And I just find too many of these debates turn into these very sort of stupid, narrow discussions. Are you on this side or that side? Life is more complex.

You're with us or you're against us. Thoughtful people understand that, yeah. Right, there's nuances at play here. I want to shout out Leslie Vail on the live stream who asks the obvious followup before we move on here which is how do we force the TPS to enforce the laws to keep people safe rather than targeting cyclists in High Park? Come on! I'm still pissed about it, Josh. You know, the Chief of Police and the Toronto Police Services Board are the ones who provide both, you know, the

latter, the oversight and the chief, the operational direction of the police. But I also think that political leaders do have an influence. I know we always say we don't direct the police and that's a fact, nor should we. But I do think the political leaders do need to stand up and, you know, when there are communities that are being threatened in a number of ways, and that includes the LGBTQ community, the people of color, no matter, you know, the Muslim community, no matter who, we all need to stand up with one voice and say there are clear rights and wrongs in society. And like I said, if you are if you are peacefully expressing yourself, that's great.

If you are crossing the line, there needs to be consequences so we don't normalize that behavior. And I don't believe that's been done well enough. And I think more political leaders need to speak that clearly. Right, wishing death upon people because of their religion cannot be tolerated in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I agree, or anywhere.

I mean, I saw a Holocaust memorial in Ottawa recently vandalized, and it's, there's spray paint on it that said, feed me. I saw this photo. And you know, so I think again, a thoughtful person can see two truths at once, not alternative facts, but two truths. If you want to express yourself because you are, you are feeling upset as you, as you should be about how many people are starving in Gaza, I think that's reasonable and upset as you should be about how many people are starving in Gaza. I think that's reasonable and acceptable and you should express yourself. There's lots of places to do that, including at the Israeli embassy or Israeli consulate

here in Toronto. You should not ever desecrate a Holocaust memorial where six million and many others died at the hands of the Nazis. That is disrespectful and frankly offensive to all the families who lost loved ones and communities who mourn them. And there are just, we need more leaders who just will say there's places to do things, there's places where you shouldn't do things and frankly I've always believed that you shouldn't be going and harassing people at a place of worship. But I'm not going to pretend that a bubble will ever stop that.

In fact, the police at the council meeting said as much. And it would be easier, I would think it would be easier for you to just vote in favor of it, virtue signal like the rest of them, and then not have to deal with the, the, the Hay refs who, who think you're being anti-Semitic. Because I like being honest with the residents who I serve. All right, more, Kate, good. This is, I feel like this is all the warm up here. I was getting to know John. I just met Josh for the first time, by the way.

How come it took us so long to meet each other? What's going on? Yeah, well it was, it was meant to happen. Apparently you've been listening. So you've discovered Toronto Mike long ago, but here you are. I've been watching you. I'm impressed. Private eyes watching you. Shout out to Gare Joyce and the real heads know that reference. Okay, because one thing I'll keep saying one more thing, but I have noticed because I talk a lot on this program, but I've noticed that people are equating your thoughts on Israel as a country, their policies as a country in this

world, equating that somehow with the Jewish faith, so that if you are critical of Israeli policies in Gaza, you're suddenly deemed by some people, you will be deemed as anti-Semitic. And I don't understand why we can't, as a civilized, respectful nation, why we can't separate these two things, that there is Judaism, and there is Israel, and these are not necessarily, in the the Venn diagram

it's not a giant circle. No I mean you were just talking about your American neighbor who you were chatting with while she was walking her dog. So you're not gonna go up to Erica and hold her accountable for everything Trump does. Oh I do. Well that's a different story. You know what I mean like the Jewish community in Toronto, doesn't need to answer for what Netanyahu does in Israel. That's absurd. There now, yes, there are members of the Jewish community here who support Israel.

There are other members of the Jewish community who may care about Israel because it's part of really the soul and the culture of the Jewish community, but will freely criticize what Israel does and freely admit that Netanyahu is doing some deplorable things. And there's discussion and there's a diversity of views and there's debate within the Jewish community,

just like every community will have that because people have their own thoughts. But to just say in a uniform way that Jews should be held responsible for what not in Yahoo and Israel does is absurd. It's nonsensical and far too often it's hateful when it's deliberately conflated. Look, we agree again, Josh. Well, we're off to a rolling start. Have you seen, we're changing the channel here. Have we seen you, we're the Royal We, have you seen Trainwreck,

Mayor of Mayhem on Netflix yet? I have not. Yeah, because I heard you're in it and I have not seen it either. But I'm curious if you could learn anything from it. I mean, you lived it. I can't imagine. Like, I wonder, will I learn anything? But I, when Snow is here, this is all about Snow, okay? But I asked him if he had ever seen The Wire, which is my favorite show of all time, and Snow looked at me and said, I lived The Wire.

Yes. By the way, you and I have a lot in common. I love the wire. I don't box it because I have it now. I have craves. I watched it in HD there, but I have the box out here. I don't like I don't watch a lot of TV. I'm at most evenings. I'm you know, but but I binge the wire years ago and I mean, I watched it 10 years after everybody else did, but I love it. And I agree. Like, you know, I've never read any of the books about Rob Ford. I haven't seen the movies. And yes, even though I'm

in this movie on Netflix, I I still just haven't seen it. And I think a lot of that is because I lived it. It's too recent, right? Like 2010. I don't know. To me, it feels like 2010 was a few years ago.

Well, I mean, I when I when I first came to council, I just, I really, like I think most people who, who do run for office, I just wanted to come and change the world. I had really substantive real, real issues that I wanted to work on. And I found myself soon after having to, you know, answer questions from Al Jazeera and CNN and whatever about you know the drunken utterings of the mayor the night before and it was this surreal show that I found myself in rather than a serious place that I want to do some good work in and um yeah I guess it is a little triggering. Yeah so I mean at some point maybe I just for like research purposes as the host of this fine podcast you know in case CNN calls me and says they want me back on or whatever, I probably will eventually see it. But it all

feels a little too fresh in it. I feel like I was too close to it. It's funny, I my last conversation was with Fiddler Ashley McKisick. Do you remember sleepy, sleepy Maggie? Okay, Ashley McKisick. And I'm here to highly recommend this convo because I had all these preconceived notions of Ashley McKisick, because people through the last several years would feed me this info and I didn't know what was truth and what was fiction. Like I literally didn't know what's a work and what's a shoot and I needed to talk to Ashley and we did but he actually had some interesting Rob Ford mind blows and how he was connected to this story and I actually think you might learn more about the Rob Ford era as a counselor and mayor from the Ashley McKisick episode of Toronto Mike, than you

will from the Netflix series, but I haven't seen the Netflix show yet. But I do plan to watch it at some point. You know, when I when I was a counselor during the Ford era, anywhere I went, literally walking down the street in Toronto or even going on vacation, I would be stopped by people who wanted to talk about my least favorite subject, which was Rob Ford. I wanted to talk about the Toronto senior strategy I was working on or helping youth at risk or, you know, dealing with dealing with basic things like parks and traffic and finally getting the snow cleared and these things that actually matter to people and people just wanted to talk about Rob Ford. But I know that even like Trontonians who were not elected would have the same experience.

They would have family members asked them about Rob Ford. They go on vacation. They would say I'm from Toronto and then somebody would say, I can't believe your mayor smokes crack. Yeah, the crack smoky mayor. Exactly. I just saw Jimmy Kimmel or whatever. Um, so it was traumatizing for our entire city and, um, but, but it was a warning about what happens when, uh, this isn't even left or right so much as when dishonest populism is allowed to come into places of power. And as we were discussing earlier, when alternative facts, when false promises are become sort of the policy doctrines, we end up with people like Trump and there are similar playbooks

that the Fords have used that Trump has borrowed from. You're totally right. Like I'm remembering now when Daniel Dale wrote that piece on that piece of property that beside Rob Ford's house and they were villainized to a point where, you know, people, if you were even a little conservative, you would just deem, oh, the yellow rag is making shit up because they don't like Rob Ford as mayor. Like the discrediting, discrediting of real journalism with people like Robin Doolittle and Kevin Donovan, et cetera, that that was used during the mayoral mayoral reign

of Rob Ford is very similar to what we have seen with Donald Trump, who was elected in 2016. Just consider when I say this, an incredibly wealthy elite person pretending to be the voice of the little guy, using, you know, curt little bumper sticker slogans hyperbolically to get elected, making false promises that everything will be fine if they are, dividing people between left and right, demonizing and vilifying the media to discredit them when they actually try to hold them to account. Who am I describing Rob Ford or Donald Trump? Both would be the answer to that. That's the problem we face and we see it

around the world. Well on that note so when I think of Rob Ford I remember I think it was day one he proudly canceled Transit City. Am I remembering that right? Yes. And I actually remember at the time writing writing in my little blog, TorontoMike.com, that he didn't have the power to do that because the mayoral powers in 2010, you were kind of one vote on council, you were mainly there as a, to gain consensus and stuff. But this did happen.

Where do you think we'd be today if that hadn't been canceled by Rob Ford in 2010? You just remind me of another contemporary issue that's related where Donald Trump is actually using his executive powers in ways that the Constitution and the states don't really support. Arguably, Rob Ford did the same thing with his so-called mayoral powers which were, as you said, no more than one vote at the time. We would have, first of all, the Eglinton ORT might actually have been completed, right? There'd actually be many more lines. Scarborough would have a network of many more

stations already built. In fact, much of it was supposed to be ready for the Pan Am games back in 2015. So we would have a far more vast rapid transportation network. And that network was supposed to be paid for by the province, both capital and operating, meaning that we would have saved millions, if not billions, of dollars in Toronto's coffers to be able to invest in our city's priorities. What he did is he lost us money, he lost us transit,

and he lost us credibility. And he hurt people because now we have people in Scarborough along with the rest of the city who today are still stuck on buses and traffic rather than on rapid transit. Well let's say you Josh Matlow happened with Eglinton Crosstown LRT which I understand this is a common again Ed Keenan comes over every quarter and I think we talk about this every few years, I think. But they started that construction in 2011, believe it or not. It was meant to be part of a TTC plan originally.

Then it was then it went over to Metrolinx, which is a provincial transit authority who promised through a private public partnership that this would be done on time on budget and be ready to ride in the year 2020 right many many years ago now right what it did become was years delayed over a billion dollars over budget they treated communities and businesses like collateral damage many of those businesses have not survived to benefit from the transit that will eventually come through to fruition. And ultimately, it has been just a hot mess of a boondoggle. And now the promise is that it will open in September.

I hope that's true, but I will always hold a grain of salt because Metrolinx has never failed to fail. Right. But so isn't it now back with the TTCs now? Well, so now what happens is that Metrolinx, now that they have the design, the construction and the build, now it's handed over to the TTC to operate. So it's still a Metrolinx line that's operated by the TTC. The TTC is doing their due diligence,

just like if you were going to buy a car, where you need to kick the tires, you got to make sure you're checking for any dents, if it's a used car, for example. So the TTC is doing its due diligence to test it, to make sure that what they're getting is something that will actually work. The last thing any of us would want

is like an Ottawa LRT fiasco, where they cut the ribbon, but then it didn't work. The last thing any of us would want is like an Ottawa LRT fiasco where they cut the ribbon but then it didn't work. How confident are you that this will open in September? Incredibly hopeful. It's a good politician answer actually. Meaning that all the credible sources that I have tell me that it will. It's budgeted. Every step that's being taken now looks and feels as though it should open in September. But like I said, we're now we're now being handed something that was being built by an incompetent organization with a consortium of contractors that spent half their time suing their contractor in court successfully. So you know proof will be in the pudding. Let's see what we get. Let's see if it's

working and if everything is as good as it's said to be then I'm hopeful that it will be open this this fall. Okay I have a question I've been wondering for a while about Rob Ford. Do you think he ever fundamentally understood what an LRT is? No. I actually had a debate. It went viral on YouTube because I actually had to explain to him the difference between an LRT and a streetcar and a subway. And he didn't he didn't. Either he didn't understand it or he he pretended not to. I don't really know the answer to that, but it was absurd that we were voting on

this like a multi-billion dollar project that affects so many lives. And he didn't seem to understand the difference. The slogan subway, subway, subways, subway, subway, subway. And if we had billions and billions and billions of dollars more, and if we needed the capacity there, that would have been a different story. What I was concerned about during the whole Scarborough transit debate is that Rob Ford wanted to replace a seven stop LRT that would have

right that would have gone in its own right of way. In other words, no there's no traffic lights or anything like would have it had the same maximum speed as a subway. So instead of having seven stops he wanted three stops for more money which I remember this which again whether you care about transit or if you're fiscally responsible That was just that was just stupid. Oh my goodness. I'm gonna brighten things up by quoting a great FOTM So I hope this FOTM is at TML X 19 on June 26. That's coming up That's exactly one week today actually midtown and by the way, this is gonna confuse listeners

We're recording on Thursday this episode drops on Friday Friday morning because Ashley McKisick dropped this morning. And I don't want you, Josh, to have to fight with Ashley for the ears. You got tomorrow. That won't don't mess with McKisick, man. This guy, geez, full throttle. OK, Midtown Gord writes, I don't have a question, but I have known him for years since he was my school trustee and I want to thank him for all his hard work and dedication for our community. That Midtown Gord?

Midtown Gord. So Midtown Gord's got a big white beard. Wait, he's got the devil horns going to be caretaker. Yes. Yeah, I know. Oakwood Collegiate. Thank you. That was so kind of you to write. I remember you well. And that was just so thoughtful of you to take the time to do that.

Thank you. See, you never know who's listening. Yeah. Midtown Gord, he's a celebrity in the TMU, the Toronto Mike Universe. Yeah, no, a total great guy. Question I have for you is, you'll often read, I think it's on your Wiki page,

but that before you became a politician, you were an actor. Yes. Josh Mallow, where would you be acting? So I grew up with, like, loving theater, actor. Yes. Josh Malo, where would you be acting? So I grew up with like loving theater. I was always passionate about performance and I went to theater school, actually in Paris.

I did everything from Shakespeare to Moliere to comedy improv. And I always believed that I would become an actor. Now I've had other jobs too. I've led an environmental organization. I've been in broadcasting. I've done a number of, I've been a writer. I've done a number of things, but I've just been passionate about theater all my life

since I was a kid. And I'd started doing some commercial work and ultimately I found that as much as I cared about acting, the activism that I was working on, whether it be protecting Old Growth Forest Ontario, protecting the Oak Ridges Marine, leading to the Greenbelt legislation, working on a number of issues that I cared about,

that just took over my attention because it ultimately, I found it more meaningful. That being said, my friends will tease me and rightfully so that there isn't much of a stretch from being an actor to getting into politics. You know who I'm thinking of? Forget, you know, some people are thinking of Ronald Reagan, maybe I'm thinking of Zelensky. That's true. He was a comedian. He was like a Bob Saget type in Ukraine and now he's been leading that courageously for years. May I share something? And this is actually, you know, ironically a serious thing to say about comedy improv. But along with the fun of comedy improv, there are life skills that I learned from it where you accept

all offers. For a scene to be successful where you accept all offers. For a scene to be successful, you can't block. You have to say yes and you work with it. And whether it be through relationships, jobs, difficult issues, trying to find conflict resolution between communities, finding a way to find a common purpose to work forward with is a wonderful life skill. And I learned a lot.

I mean, I studied political science too, Concordia, but I learned more about the job that I do today from doing comedy improv in many ways. Well, I bet you do, yeah, sure. Because I learned skills about how to just be surprised, take something on, life does that to you all the time, and then find a pragmatic way to make it work. It makes sense to me. Were you in any TV ads I might have seen back in the day?

Yes. Fortunately I haven't been able to find them on YouTube which is wonderful because... Let me talk to my buddy Retro Ontario and let's dig it up. My opponents will look for some extortion material but yeah I even did a Buckley's ad where I did funny faces while I was doing the tastes awful, but works. Yeah. Yeah. Tastes awful. I did that. I know these butly ads. You were in one of those. By the way, I have no doubt that there are going to be some journalists, including some of my opponents who are going to be digging for that.

Now that I've exposed that truth, I feel like Ed Keenan was doing like fashion work as a kid at maybe at the Galleria mall or something. I feel like maybe his dad worked at towers or something and there might have been like in the mall they would have like kids show the latest clothes you could buy for back to school or something. Ed Keenan was doing runway modeling in a mall? I believe so. I believe so and because I mentioned wrong way I'm gonna just throw this into the universe because I just published it this morning and again I'm talking on Thursday even though you're here this Friday but Ashley McKisick tells me he dated RuPaul when

he was in New York before Ashley McKisick was a known entity in this country like that's the kind of bomb that was dropped in the McKisick so Josh maybe you and I just for the next hour talk about Ashley McKisick if that's okay. I have not dated RuPaul. No, you wish. Okay, so let's get you into politics here. So you run in, I guess you ran for as an MP, to become an MPP, right? Back in 2002? So that, I mean, that's how it kind of started for me in politics. Back in the early 2000s, I was a, I didn't own a suit.

I was, you know, I said, that's me today, buddy. Well, I've learned how to wear one. But, you know, I was, I was a, I didn't own a suit. I was, you know, that's me today, buddy. Well, I've learned how to wear one, but you know, I, I was, I was an activist. I, um, I was working on protecting the Oak Ridge Marine and the green belt. And, um, I came across a guy named Greg Cerbera who was running for the Ontario liberal party. He was the president of the party. Uh, and I was trying to convince him to, you know, stand up against the Harris government who, uh, wasn't,

wasn't willing to protect these incredibly important green spaces, these wildlife corridors, uh, these aquifers, um, for, for the public. And I got to know him. We became friends, but that was about it. And then one day I'm traveling through Europe and I'm maxing my card. I'm, you know, I'm just, I'm backpacking in my early twenties and I get a call from my dad and he told me I was 26 years old. And my dad said that Greg Cerbera is looking for you because Mike Harris, the premier of Ontario has resigned.

Ernie Eaves is now the new premier. He's about to run in a seat and Greg wants you to be the Ontario Liberal Party candidate to run against the new premier of Ontario. Now I somehow found a way to get onto a plane the next day, get back to Toronto. And I remember walking into the party office. I wasn't a member of any party. Like I saw the church of Scientology that, that used to be right at 10 St. Mary, you know, right next to 10 St. Mary street. And I thought, what's the difference? Like between parties and cults and, you know,

I just never been involved in any of this. But when I was offered an opportunity to go in, take a stand against the conservative government to challenge them on issues that I cared about. I ran with it. And you lost Ernie Eves breaking news within 20 years old. Yeah, 10 points. That's it. 10 points. That's a that's a great performance against the premier. It was it was a remarkable experience. Now I was delusional. I I convinced myself

I could win because I was never meant to I was a lamb to slaughter They knew that when they threw me into it They just thought my job really was to keep Ernie Eaves busy so that they could win another by-election that was happening at the same time But for me, I was knocking at doors. I was learning about Families who would talk to me about their child who was on the autism spectrum that I'd never learned about before. I heard from people who were going through affordability challenges, people who needed their government to have their back, never felt that they had it.

And I convinced myself that if I was elected, I would go and do something about it. Now I lost, but that's what finally convinced me to stop just begging politicians to do the right thing, but just go and try to be a politician and go do the right thing. And I've, you know, I've had a good run of it without selling my soul yet. So the next step for you is, you know, and Midtown Gord alluded to this, but you were a TDSB trustee from 2003 to 2010. Yes. So after I lost the by-election, the provincial by-election, it was my mom who

was a high school teacher who convinced me to run for the school board. She knew that, I mean, I'm more of an autodidact. I'm a self learner. The conventional school system didn't work for me. I had my challenges. And she said, why don't you get involved in the system and try to change it from within, which was great advice. And I did. I, I, I felt, I felt purposeful at the school board, but it was the community around me. I always wanted to do more work that was far broader than simply education, although it is one of the most important issues that you can work on. But I care about a lot of different issues.

And when there was an opportunity to run for council in 2010, I literally ran with it and I've never looked back. And I was reading about how in 2008 you spoke out against a proposal to create an Afrocentric school in Toronto. Curious to your thoughts of why you were against that. This was another debate where you know, you're either supportive of it, you support the black community and if communities rather and if you are against it, you don't. My view at the

time and I still remain holding this view is that well we should be focusing supports and resources toward different groups in our society who have never had the same access to equity before. Within our public school system, I want every kid, no matter their background, their color, their religion, where they're from, or their economic means, to have the same advantages. I want every kid to learn about each other. I don't want only black children to learn about great heroes

like Martin Luther King Jr. and Nelson Mandela and learn about the real contributions that black peoples through history have contributed to our society. I want every kid to learn about those things and I actually believe that we need to reform our curriculum to be more reflective of our diversity rather than single out different schools for different backgrounds because you know frankly we had a higher dropout rate at the time amongst our Portuguese community for example but I don't want just a Portuguese school I want every school to be where kids can succeed okay see how important it is that you have more than like a 15 second sound bite to kind

of express why you're thinking and doing what you're doing? Because the issues are complex and they don't always fit into bumper stickers. It's true. Where the heck is St. Paul's? Okay, I'm here in South Etobicoke right now. I have an idea because I know the neighborhood Midtown Gord lives in and apparently you're his councillor So can you tell us idiots exactly what part of Toronto is yours Toronto St. Paul? So I live in and represent

Toronto St. Paul's which is a large swath of Midtown Toronto It goes all the way from Mount Pleasant on the east to Dufferin on the west again Not a linear line, it kind of squiggles around a little bit. It goes up to Eglinton and then a little bit north of Yonge and Eglinton and then all the way down to the railroad tracks north of DuPont.

So it is a population of about 110,000 residents thanks to Doug Ford who cut the number number of counselors a few years ago. So it's a massive, massive ward. And my family and I live there and breathe the air and are subject to every decision that I'm a part of. Okay, and you were elected to city council in 2010, the same year that brought us Mayor Rob Ford. That's right.

You know, my kid runs track. He also does some of the field stuff. So he does the standing long jump. Did you know there's a standing long jump for kids in primary school? They don't have this in the Olympics. Like it's where you just from a standing position, you jump as opposed to the typical long jump we're used to. This is the thing.

Okay. I'm learning that. I'm learning that from you. I witnessed it. My kid made it to the we made it a couple of rounds of the standing long jump. How old is your kid?

He's 11. So yeah, so he's in grade five. Yeah. But we had the event at you ready for this? Of course, you know, at Rob Ford Stadium. Yeah.

So what are your thoughts on the fact that all these kids are going to do their track and field at Rob for same? I've been there twice in the past month. I voted against naming that stadium for Rob Ford. There are a lot of people who are deserving of that kind of recognition. I've actually named parks and playgrounds and lanes, etc. after people who... I named a playground after Mona Piper, who was Toronto's longest-serving crossing guard. She served our kids and most likely saved lives. I named a lane after a woman, Laili, who worked at a grocery store for many years. She wasn't

the most powerful or wealthy or celebrity person in the area, but she gave a smile to everyone for many, many years in that community and she deserved that recognition. There are people who have given everything of themselves to bring up their community and promote the integrity and the reputation of our city. Rob Ford, I'm not suggesting that he didn't do good things. I'm not suggesting that the people who love him shouldn't remember him for everything they cared about. But I also believe that he was a dishonest populist who hurt our city, both a policy policy perspective but he also hurt our city with respect to our reputation internationally and I don't believe in rewarding that so with all due respect to Doug and his family I

think that there should be lots of ways to remember the person that they care about but I don't believe that a stadium where, you know, we want our kids to look at models of behavior that we look up to and respect. I just don't see Rob Ford as that model of behavior. I'm gonna drop a couple of fun facts on the listenership and then I'm going to shout out a couple more partners. And then I just glance at the clock and I realize,

like if I went a little over an hour, would you be mad at me? No. Like you're not gonna miss some important you know you're not cutting a ribbon somewhere that I can't. Well do you mind if I check? How about this I'll do that I'll do okay I'll you check I don't know tell me your we'll call it the hard out okay we'll put you know what we're good okay okay because I don't you know I know what you counselors have your schedules all jammed up so let me just quickly give you Josh a measuring tape from Ridley funeral home. Ridley funeral home there at 14th and Lake shore.

Uh, I spent time with the owner Brad Jones yesterday because he was recording a new episode of life's undertaking his fantastic podcast. And he wants you to have that measuring tape, Josh. You know your your sponsors are so are you allowed to accept these gifts is there any rule about how many dollar value? Yeah there is a dollar value I think. That's an expensive measuring tape. I forget I don't get a lot of gifts but but I but I think this this measuring tape and book I think will qualify for The lasagna and the beer? Come on, Josh, we might be there. How about this?

I'm just trying to get you into it. We'll keep them in a safe place. I'm gonna check with the integrity commissioner. If it goes above, I'll return it to you. I would love there to be like an integrity commissioner to come down on a counselor because they accepted the Palma pasta lasagna and the Great Lakes beer

and the Ridley Funeral Home measuring tape and the Toronto Maple Leafs book. That would be a dream come true. I'm not aware Lakes beer and the Ridley funeral home measuring tape in the Toronto Maple Leafs book. Like that would be a dream come true. I'm not aware of anything that the Ridley funeral home is asking me to do aside from using their tape measure. Well that's Amber Morley's department anyways. This is Amber Morley's writing. There you go, okay, so I won't let Amber use my tape measure.

She's got her own, okay? She's probably got a drawer full of them over there. I mean, listen, I hope I'm right. I don't believe that I'm going to be scandalized for taking some of your beer and a tape measure. But, you know, well, I guess we'll find out soon. Now, do you bike? I do. Okay.

That's literally a teaser for what's coming up, because I have to get to the questions while I still have you, because I also drive. I take transit. I kayak. I walk. So everything you said, I do all of those things. Yeah, I drive. I take transit. I kayak. I walk. So everything you said, I do all of those things. Yeah. I, I drive. I take transit. I swim too. Josh, we're the same person. We will swim. My goodness. I love it. My kayak folds up and goes in a backpack and I bike it to the lake. You've got an Oru. Yes. I've got one too. You and I, we seriously,

do you know mine? But here's where I got you, okay? Mine was gifted to me by listeners of this podcast at a TMLX event last June at Great Lakes Brewery because I turned 50 years old. Congratulations. That was last June. This June, at June 26th, I don't think I'm getting any gifts.

I don't expect any gifts. It's not my birthday. And I will be turning 51 the day after. Well, we have well established that I would not be able to accept that gift of who this offers me. Now, you know, listen, I don't have these rules, okay? Yeah, you can do whatever you want. I can accept all the gifts here.

Okay, so I'm going to urge you while you're biking or kayaking, if you listen to season eight of Yes, We Are Open, which is an award- winning podcast from Minaris, hosted by FOTM Al Grego, who recently turned 50 himself, inspiring stories from small business owners. And Al went to Regina, Saskatchewan, and collected a whole whack of great stories.

And they're in season eight of Yes We Are Open. Have you ever been to Regina, Saskatchewan, Josh? I have never been there. Well, you and I are in the same boat again I've never been there. Oh my goodness. Okay, so here's a fun mind blow here ready. Yeah In 2014 when you ran for reelection You won with 86.2 percent of the vote and that was the highest winning percentage of any

Councillor candidate in the entire city of Toronto in 2014. 86.2%. That's a mind blow to me. Like they love you. Josh Birnbaum I love them. Stacey Penney 86.2, Josh. Josh Birnbaum The love is mutual. Stacey Penney You should get a tattoo. This is 86.2. But then in 2022, Josh Birnbaum Yeah. Stacey Penney Not, not really much of a dip. 84.7% of the voters in that election said we want Josh,

Josh, Josh Matlow. What is your name anyway? Josh Matlow to remain Ashley McKyzee Ashley McKyzee would be a great city councilor. He'd get like 96%. But anyway, I digress. 84.7% and that's 2022. I mean, one of the things that I, that I do, and I definitely encourage others to do as well, because I think it's important is I will take positions on every issue. That's my job, but I also think it's important to articulate how you considered other views, um, and, you

know, recognize that there are things to consider. There are concerns that need to be addressed and it doesn't mean that you capitulate or you pander, but you just, you, you articulate, and this is what I do. I mean, I, I take a controversial position, but I will write, um, to my community. I will explain how I arrived at that conclusion. So that at the very least, and my favorite compliment that I get from any resident isn't just like, oh, you should run for mayor

or any of that stuff. But I don't always agree with you, but I trust you. I respect you. Like, I love that because it demonstrates to me that whether we agree on one thing or disagree on another thing, you believe that at least I arrived at my conclusion honestly, and I've demonstrated the facts that I've reviewed and considered and even struggled over to arrive at that conclusion.

And I will keep doing that because ultimately that's what breaks through the, I think these silos that were going through, you know, going through these divisive silos where, you know, we're seeing in the states, for example, like almost 5050 elections, because that country has been so evenly divided. We're seeing more and more of that in Canada, too. Absolutely. So 84.7% in 2022. That's remarkable.

But in 2023, Josh, you ran for mayor of Toronto. Yes, and I didn't get that percentage. You did not? You got, the number I found is 4.91%. Yeah, I got squeezed. So at the beginning of the mayoral election after John Tory resigned, we had polls actually showing that I was doing really well.

I mean, that's, and I ran knowing that I had a really good chance. Uh, but when the dynamic became, uh, well, when Olivia Chow entered the race, and then the dynamic became more of a referendum on, do you support Olivia? Or do you need to vote for somebody to stop Olivia, which became Anna Bailau? I just got blasted into outer space. And that's just, that was my lot in life at the time. That's true. It became a, no disrespect.

I won't call it a two dog race, but a two woman race. You had Olivia Chow, you're right. Kind of on the progressive side. And then everybody lining up on the right. And John Tory's machine kind of got behind Anna and they, they did a whole bunch of machinations. She came on Toronto mic'd, which gave her quite the boost. And you know what, that would have done it. Maybe if it was a little bit earlier,

it would have boosted her over the finish line. Live and learn, right? Yeah, yeah. All right, and so I have to ask you about somebody because Lieve Fumka is an FOTM Hall of Famer and she's got a question, but this gives me an opportunity just to shout out a podcast I produce for Nick Ienies

called Building Toronto Skyline because he recently had Brad Bradford on the program to talk about affordable housing and leave a Fumka wants to know, and I'm just reading her question. Yeah. Are you pro Brad Bradford in his effort to run for mayor in the next mayoral election? I'm not. Brad and I talk, we'll text each other over. You ever bike together? We have not biked together.

Okay, he bikes a lot too, but back to your chat. I got, you know, when John Tory was mayor, he was like solidly on Team Tory, and so we did not work well together because Tory and I had, let's say, a fractious dynamic to understate it. And he was part of his administration during the mayoral by-election.

And this is very human and I appreciate this. Even though he and I would often be at each other's throats at council, we actually found that we kind of liked each other, we got along. Well, you know what, I think you would like each other. I like Brad, he's been over many times and I already like you, Josh. And I feel like you and Brad would get along

on a human level. I've got time for Brad as a person. I just don't always appreciate his politics and that's okay. So therefore I wouldn't support Brad for mayor, but I want he and his family to be happy and well. Well, you know what question's coming next, right? Josh, I now speak for Toronto Mike here asking you straight out,

are you considering another run for mayor? Yes, but not now. To be very candid. That's all I expect. I mean, I wouldn't have run for mayor in the by-election if I didn't believe that I had ideas and a platform. And I did produce a very substantive platform. And lest we forget, Josh, that was a unique opportunity where you didn't have to lose

your council. Like Brad, too, right? Like, I feel like you're playing house money on that by-election because you didn't have to choose between city councilor and mayor Yeah, but it also was a major undertaking Major fundraising then you lose and you're back in can yeah, and certainly there was a parachute 100% on that but I wouldn't have run I just wouldn't have gone through even that exercise if I didn't believe that I had something to offer our city

I love the city I've always cared about every part of the city and I've not been satisfied with the mayoral administrations that I've served under. I do believe that we can do better. And I do believe that I've got both ideas and experience that can leave this place better than I found it. And that's what I wanna do, however long I do it.

Now, that being said though, I'm pragmatic. I, you know, I'm a realist. I don't see a path for running for mayor this time. I wouldn't want to play a spoiler and lose somebody else in election because I took the way votes or any of that. At 4.91%, you won't be spoiling too much. Fair enough. Fair enough. Is that a low blow? Yeah, thanks a lot. That's a Matt Low blow. I thought we were bonding so well, you know. I'm a realist here. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Is that a low blow? Yeah. Thanks a lot. That's a Matt Lowe blow. I thought we were bonding so well,

you know. I'm a realist here. Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about the lowest of the low, Mike. You beat the heck out of Brad Bradford. There we go. That's my claim to fame. No, in all reality though, I'm not going to do it just to sort of do it. Um, but if there's a day where, uh, there's a path where there is support and where I believe that it's the right time, both for me, but also for my family,

um, then yeah, I could see that day come, but well, do I know that day is going to come? I have no idea. I will continue no matter what doing the work that I do for our city. I love it. I care about it. And whatever title I have a role I have, I still believe in the work I do. What role does Olivia Chow play in this decision? Like for example, will you run should she decide at some point? And I don't know what will happen the next election. There's a whole wild card named John Tory out there. There's Rumble League, right? So it could be Olivia versus John.

Like that could be the two horse race. It's not a dog race, it's a horse race. Okay, Mike, get that right. But then if there comes a time when Olivia Chow does not run, maybe that's your route to victory. And that is my point. I mean, John Tory has a lot of money. He's a

farmer mayor. He's got a whole kind of machine around him. Olivia Chow came into the last election with over 30 years of, of, of, you know, name recognition. She has a powerhouse. She has, you know, a lot of structure around her too. And that didn't leave me a path to win. I'm just being candid. Yeah, it's realistic. Just being candid. Right. But if in the next election,

if there is a path that I could run on, I think I, let's just say, we'll see what happens in 2030, but I care so deeply about the city that however long my life is, if I had an opportunity, even if it was for four years, to sort of just do everything that I've always believed would be good for the city, whether it be for affordability, whether it be just

functionality, getting our city moving, helping our most vulnerable, getting services actually working, lo and behold, actually being satisfied with snow clearing, you know, getting getting parks bathrooms broke, you know, that are broken, fixed, like real things that matter to people. Right. I would love that opportunity. Okay, now I have hit the hour mark and I promise you an hour but because you did kind of say

I could go a little over I'm just going to hit you with the questions like kind of if you can do these rapid fire, whatever it takes to it. Kristin F. wrote in, he's my counselor and generally good. I feel like that's a compliment. Generally good city counselor. What's he doing to support cyclists in the city and cycling infrastructure? Good luck keeping this one short, but maybe give us, you are talking to somebody who like it's his job. He bikes every single day. Like I bike every day, 12 months a year. So I'm naturally curious about this as well. I

spend some time cycling in your ward as well. But let's see what you say to Kristen. In a rapid-fire way, I've been very clear in both speaking up against where Doug Ford and others want to tear up infrastructure that keep us safe. And I have both voted and supported improving infrastructure and expanding infrastructure to ensure that we have a safe bike network, both to help bicyclists and I'm going to remind drivers as well. I'm a driver as well. The more people who take transit, walk and bike, it means fewer drivers who are creating congestion that get in our way to get around on the lanes that are there for drivers. We all benefit when everyone has a safe and reliable way to get around. And I have always taken that position.

Yeah, you're preaching to the choir on that one. Now, I personally have this vision and I bring it up whenever I have a city counselor on or even just with Ed Keenan. I just throw it into the universe. But I have this vision where I bike to the island. I'm wearing my Martha and the Muffins t-shirt today because it shows the Toronto islands. I don't, I just don't want to have to wait for a ferry and buy a crowd on that ferry. Right. Like I mean, you can take bikes, at least a walking path, whatever. Like we can get to the porter. We can get to the airport. So just speak to this because it's going to tie into James

Edgar's question about a gondola. But can I bike to the island at some point, you know, before I die? You mean without having to cram on to a crowded ferry or wait for it? Right. I want to bike to the island. I literally want to bike to the island. Yeah. So unless you have that wonderful opportunity that you and I have, where we might be able to strap onto our kayak and get across. Good luck with that. But ultimately, we do need a link to,

to the island. It should be a, a lightweight, meaning not for cars, but we don't want cars on the island. But I love the idea of a gondola. Now there's a debate, you know, should it be a bridge? Should it be a gondola? The thing I like about a gondola is that it has almost zero impact on the environment. If it's done at the right height, it won interfere with air you know with the traffic from the airport and along with being a fun way to travel to the island it also can be a destination in itself. We need more fun places to go for the public, for families to go to, for tourists to visit and imagine getting into a compartment.

It'd be like a little, like, you know. Yeah, I'm trying to, can you help me visualize it? Yeah, it wouldn't be like a ski lift. It would be more like, sort of like a car that you actually get into. You could bring your bike on it, but then it would essentially, on a wire, go across to the other side,

and it would be an opportunity for you to both get direct. Like the midway at the C&E? Yeah, you could get, it's sort of like that, for you to both get midway at the CNE. Yeah, you could get it sort of like that, but you could get across. But at the same time, see the skyline of Toronto. You can see across the lake. It would be I think it would be a

really lovely thing for Toronto. But from a functional perspective, utilitarian perspective, a environmentally friendly way to get across now. We need to study it. We need to understand if it's cost effective, but if everything looks good,

it's something that I would enthusiastically support. I have said that I'm on Team Gondola as we're exploring the options. Yeah, James Edgar says that he finds the Gondola proposal interesting, and he just wonders like any other proposal, who will use it. Well you and I will use it right there. There are a lot of people who want to get to the

islands who today do make the same decision that you just alluded to where if you're thinking about what to do on a Saturday with your family if you think about having to wait in the blazing hot sun right at the ferry terminal just to get onto a massively crowded ferry that you know that you may or may not have to wait for even longer. You may choose a different option if you know that there's something readily available that's going to be really really cheap to get on and you can just get across and have some fun while you're on it. I think a lot of people would take it but we need to make sure that it is what I just described. Okay super quick hit on this one. Yoni says, please ask Josh,

what he thinks of the RapidTO plan for Bathurst? So for your listeners understanding, staff have proposed a dedicated bus lane on both Bathurst and Dufferin between Eglinton and the lakefront because buses are stuck in traffic. What staff have changed their proposal to, and this it'll be considered at the next executive committee, this is what I've been told by staff, is that they want to spend

more time working on the stretch between Bloor and Eglinton on Bathurst, but they would like to move forward with Bloor going south along with all of Dufferin. The purpose they say for moving forward with this quickly is that they want it ready for the FIFA games as we're having more people come and that makes sense. So the way that they've proposed, I think should be supported. I do understand that there is more work that they wanna do on the Northern section of Bathurst, but certainly what they're proposing today,

which is south of Bloor to the lake and then Dufferin, which is colloquially referred to as the Suffrin bus, because it's so bad. It makes a lot of sense because right now, you really are, speaking of stuck in traffic, it is horrible for for transit riders. Andrew Ward on the livestream live dot Toronto Mike dot com says I'm happy to see long form long form conversations with politicians. Matlow provides great context beyond a sound clip. Can you ask Josh to explain why P

3s suck? Now I saw this and I actually like I didn't know explain why P3s suck? Now I saw this and I actually am like, I didn't know what a P3 was because I'm a dummy, but Andrew Ward did tell me that it means public-private partnership. Yes. That sounds like a, like, that I understand. Okay, so can you explain why public-private partnerships

suck, do they suck? I don't know. Call it nice game on behalf of Andrew. That's a great question, Andrew. So you know, many years ago, there was a debate over whether or not we should be doing more contracting out and in doing these private-public partnerships. And the reason why is because there were there was political rhetoric at the time from people like Doug Ford who said, well, you know, the private sector can do everything better than the public sector.

And yes, there are sometimes justifiable frustrations with government. And I get that, and government needs to continue to improve. That being said, though, the promise that the P3 proponents made was that a private public partnership would put all the risk, financial risk, all the delays, all the problems onto the private company and the public taxpayers would be protected from all of that. You would get projects magically done on time, on budget. Every kid would get a pony. The streets would be paved with gold and all your dreams would come true.

Now, 15 years later, since the P.T. project of the Eglinton Crosstown was started, as an example, we found this is no longer a theoretical or hypothetical debate. That project, for example, is years behind. Over a billion dollars cost overrun. The consortium, the private contractors, have been on the successful side of lawsuits against Metrolinx over and over again. It has been literally a hot mess. The public was not protected. Um, and what, you know,

sometimes it makes sense to have a contract with a private company, but far more often I have learned, and I see this at the city time and time again, whether it be, um, you know, you know, pruning trees or a number of things we're doing. When there's a middle man taking a cut of the public money, not look at the astral bins, for example, that's a great example. We have astral media bell now. They, the garbage bins that we have, the recycling bins, uh,

the info boards, which are really ad boards, the street furniture we have on our sidewalks are provided by a private company. Have you ever seen one of those garbage bins actually, you know, in a state of repair, not overflowing? Right. Um, it's so there's less control by the city. You know, the public has less accountability from government because government then needs to call. You call 311. It goes to the city. You know, the public has less accountability from government because

government then needs to... You call 311, it goes to the city, hey, there's a broken garbage bin. The city then needs to go beg Astral to go and fix it. And then it may take several weeks to do. That's not reasonable. And I thought P3 was a like a gaming console. So you've educated me there Okay, last two questions Josh you've kicked ass in your Toronto Mike debut man It's been going great. But I recently did an episode of Jeremy Hopkins He's the official Toronto historian of the Toronto Mike podcast. Hello to J ho He comes over every quarter with a different topic. The most recent topic was old City Hall And we dove deep into the history. We had a great time talking about Old City Hall.

What are we gonna do with this jewel? I am very concerned that if we don't do the right thing with it and figure it out, it will eventually fall into disrepair. And what I have been advocating for is that we should have a City of Toronto Museum at Old City Hall to share the stories, the many and diverse stories of our city, the waves of immigration, the celebrations, the trials and tribulations. We've got

great stories to tell and I want a place for everyone from students to visitors to go and learn about them. We should also be using Old City Hall for other public purposes. I'd love to see another library there. Maybe returning the Urban Affairs Library programming space. There could be retail that's complementary to the space to help fund it. There can be a lot of uses because there's a lot of space in there. But I want to bring it back to life and I want the doors to be open. For many years, it was used as a courthouse. The courts are moving out. But the only the only way that you could go and see this architectural masterpiece is if you had committed a crime. Or you're getting married or you're getting

married. I want the all I did. Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to go on with that line but ultimately I want the public to be able to enjoy it again it really is I mean it's the old seat of government for the city of Toronto so I'm advocating for a plan to through public dollars and philanthropy open those doors back up to the public, have a City of Toronto Museum, have other public programming space, and take back what's ours, which is that gem of a building. I realized I should have saved a light one, a little lighter one here for the ending here. Shout out to Rob Pruse who put together this great cover of Lois de la Lo, or is it Josh

Matt Lois de la Lo? who put together this great cover of lowest of the low or is it Josh, Matt lowest of the low, you decide. Johnny wants to know how we can, how do we sustain a transit system where so many people flagrantly do not pay. So maybe in a nutshell, what is your position, Josh, on TTC fair enforcement? We should be enforcing, we should be enforcing both equitably and effectively. And ultimately, the main reason that we never have enough funds to pay for this important system is that we're one of, if not the only major transit system in the world that doesn't get adequate funding from higher levels of government. I want us to fix our state of disrepair and keep it safe so that we don't have the constant delays

and problems that we have so that people can rely on the TTC again. And once again, as us Gen Xers would remember, along with listening to the lowest of low, we used to call the TTC the better way and I want that to be the better way again. How was this experience for you? Did you enjoy your Toronto mic debut?

Was it everything you hoped it would be? That and more, I'm going away with GIFs. I hope that's not a scandal. I think that they're under that number. I hope it is a scandal. Well, yeah, then I'll come back and we'll talk about it if I'm allowed out. And I also hope to continue this conversation over a kayak

in Lake Ontario with you one of these days. And that brings us to the end of our 1,716th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. It brings us to the end of our 1,716th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Monaris, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, recyclemyelectronics.ca. Josh, that's where you go. If you have old cables, old electronics, old devices, do not throw it in the garbage

because those chemicals will end up in our landfill. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca, put in your postal code and find out where to drop it off to be properly recycled. I can get behind that. Building Toronto's Skyline, subscribe and enjoy with Nick Aini's and Ridley Funeral Home. Subscribe and joy with Nick Aini's and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all next week when my special guest is. Oh, this is exciting. I think this is cool. Colin Cripps. Colin Cripps is a member of Blue Rodeo. He'll be here in the basement.

See you all, then. I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

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little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a So So Music