Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Joshua Kloke: Toronto Mike'd #1122

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

In this 1122nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Joshua Kloke from The Athletic as they talk about The Tragically Hip, Canada's Men's soccer team and his new book, The Voyageurs: The Canadian Men's Soccer Team's Quest for the World Cup. In this 1122nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike is joined by Joshua Kloke from The Athletic as they talk about The Tragically Hip, Canada's Men's soccer team and his new book, The Voyageurs: The Canadian Men's Soccer Team's Quest for the World Cup. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Yes, We Are Open, The Advantaged Investor, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1122 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals. Palma Pasta. Fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees. The Yes, We Are Open podcast.

A Moneris podcast production. The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada. EPRA. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Canna Cabana, the lowest prices on cannabis, guaranteed. Joining me today, making his Toronto mic debut, is Joshua Cloak. Welcome, Joshua.

Thanks for having me. What a setup you've got in here. For people that can't see, this is the kind of place that I think a lot of people would want to hang out in for a long amount of time. You got the mask here, the antique goalie mask. That's the real deal, buddy. What's the story there? This is impressive. The story there is it's literally the only artifact I have from my father.

So this is all I had. And I don't know where he got it from, but when he was a kid, I think it was antique. So that mask is authentically super old. Like that's not like that faux Jason mask stuff that you can buy. This is the real deal. You never asked him about it? No, I never, never had the chance there. So I don't know.

But yeah, so that's, and I put it on, this is October, first episode of October. Welcome to October. I put that mask on for Halloween and I, to this day, I wear it at Halloween and I walk around the neighborhood and scare the shit out of kids. All right. I'm going to tell my son not to come here for sure. How old is your son? He'll be four on Thursday.

So, you know, I'm going to try and stay off Twitter for the day. I think we're going to take him to the ROM. Wow. He's in that dinosaur phase now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anywhere with dinosaurs. What's up with that dinosaur phase yeah yeah yeah so anywhere with dinosaurs what's up with the dinosaur phase why does every kid go like i don't know like you know my theory yeah because first he was into like heavy machinery right like you're like bob the builder

stuff no well well yeah that kind of stuff but like anything like anytime he'd walk by a construction site we'd have to like post up there for 90 minutes. Right. So my theory is just anything bigger than, than these kids is what enamors them. Like they are just enamored because they're around us and they think we're big, but then when they see things even bigger, And then, so once they,

they learn about dinosaurs, like, whoa. So, I mean, dinosaurs are amazing, right? Now I'm trying to think four years old.

My youngest is six, but I think at four, they do a pretty short trick or treating, right? Like they, what? I mean, dinosaurs are amazing, right? Now I'm trying to think, four years old. My youngest is six, but I think at four, they do a pretty short trick-or-treating, right? Like, what, I don't think they go more than like a block or two. We go, last year we went to the end of the block and back, and then it's dark out, and then it's like, he's already passed his bedtime anyway. Right, right. Yeah, that's right.

The four-year-olds are out there at like six o'clock. They're the first ones out and they're done by 6.30. There's something like that. Yeah, I love it. I genuinely love trick-or-treating. I love the whole kind of community building and seeing people that I don't often get to see out and about. So no, I love it.

Well, dude, it's fine, man. I actually had this conversation with my mom yesterday uh like i think halloween is better than christmas like this is like we're all in it's uh the decorations are already going up you know it's like a it's it's exciting you know going trick-or-treating is a like a true joy for kids like i love taking the kids around like i think this is the biggest deal man i. I'm not a big Christmas guy. I don't know where that, I don't know where that puts me, but like,

you know what Christmas is. I find it's exhausting. It's the planning. It's the list. A lot of expectations. Oh man. And you know, again,

our son's four and like, now we're getting to that point where Christmas is like this massive thing. These, he's going to have all these, like you said, expectations. But, you know, it's the family planning. It's coordinating. And you're trying to do all this in the middle of like a pretty intense time at work. So, no, I like.

And so many people don't celebrate. Like it's not like Halloween where most people are going to celebrate Halloween. But there's so many people who you don't celebrate Christmas. Like come. I mean, that's a religious based holiday. Like come 2.30 PM on the day of Christmas. I am exhausted. Bring down the tree.

Oh dude. I am just, I'm tapped out. So yeah, like Christmas, here's what I love about Christmas. And I mean this, maybe this is a good segue.

I don't know, but I know I love that. Like once you hit december that first kind of when you have a day off usually it's a saturday or sunday and you're you're maybe putting up the decorations and you have like a glass of wine or three and you start to feel that like holiday buzz for lack of a better word like you know like you're you know things are happening and then i get sick of it pretty quickly so i just i enjoy like you know hanging out with with my family but that's about it so i looked up uh the permanent records

joshua we almost made this happen four years ago i yeah like and in fact i was funnily enough i was with elvis uh at tfc friday night so it's all coming together here. So we're watching soccer. We're going to talk a lot of soccer here, particularly our Canadian men's team, because the World Cup is coming up. And you wrote a great book on the subject, The Voyagers, Canada's Men's National Team's Quest for the World Cup. It's all in the title there.

So we have a lot of soccer talk to do. But about four years ago, we were going to have you drop by for with elvis and i here because i didn't think i could carry a soccer app so elvis was going to be like my soccer guy and i realized it only took me four years i realized i don't need them i can do this myself are so are you like a lot of other canadians and that over the last few years you've become genuinely interested in the sport i mean that i know In fact, we're going to get into it. In fact, hold that fire because we're going to talk about

how into it I am, when I became into it. We're going to do all of that. But off the top here, I want to shout out FOTM Michael Barclay, who said, pretty sure you too will have some tragically hip stories to share.

I want to open the app before we get into the soccer talk or footy talk, if you will. Would you mind Joshua, if we talked a little hip, I would never say no to talking like a band that is not just a band. Like, uh, they're,

they loom large over all of us every day i mean that i've i love the hip just hearing this song oh what a choice oh i love this well you know why i chose this jam and you've got the hip shirt on too yeah yeah i know i know my audience like i know who's dropping by today so i thought i'd load up this part. I wanted this particular hip song. We're going to listen to a bit then I'm going to crack open a GLB and talk to you about it. Escape is at hand

for the traveling man. It's our third time in New York. It's your fourth time in New York. We were fifth, sixth on the bill We talk a little about our plans Talk a little of our future plans It's not like we were best friends But now we're skiing Before I find out, you know, when you got into the hip

and why you wrote a book about the hip and all that important stuff, I'm cracking open my IPA from Great Lakes Brewery. I'm doing it on the mic. Joshua couldn't wait. You cracked yours open before I opened the mic. I did. How sad are you? Are you like me when you realize

you'll never go to another Tragically Hip concert and then you're devastated all over again that Gord's no longer with us? I think about Gord Downie every single day. And I remember a few years ago or a year and a half ago or whatever, when I did that story on Joe Thornton and his relationship with Gord Downie, Joe said that to me as well. He's like, I think about Gord every day.

And for me, it was like kind of reassuring just to hear someone else say that. day and for me it was like kind of reassuring just to hear someone else say that um and you know i i think a lot about yeah i don't like the band aren't going to play as the the five piece anymore but i also find myself drifting back a lot to some of the the more enjoyable just moments in my life and how the hip were always there and i think that's what i kind of struggled with was you know when when the the news of of gourd's diagnosis was announced and then you know the final tour and gourd's passing like because so many of us and i just mean fans or whatever grew up with the band and because they played all the time like it was a given you knew you were going down to the amphitheater every summer you knew the band were always going to keep touring and just kind of as a kid as a teenager whatever

i just thought that they were going to be this omnipresent thing i never thought they'd go away and i mean it when i say that one of the first real um heavy memories i have of the hip um was it the first show i ever saw, which was New Year's Day 2000. I don't know, were you there? No, I was at the New Year's Eve 99. Right, my parents wouldn't let me go to that one. They thought things were going to get out of hand. Oh, because of Y2K. I don't know.

I mean, they're just... No, I just remember because they did Head by a Century. Yep, they did that on the CBC and I watched it. I was at a high school party and I told everybody, be quiet, we're going to turn on the TV and watch The Hip. And I think I was booted out of the party eight minutes later. So then the countdown and I'm there and it's magic. But you have that in the back of your mind like, oh, will anything not work? Because it's Y2K and of course everything was fine. But you were at the next night's show. I was at the next night's show. And this is the real statics right out in the bill there's a lot oh there's a lot of bands i don't i i don't know if i think the real statics were the day before i know hayden

was on the bill uh julie duaron um the watchmen were on the bill and um i remember they they um i'm pretty sure they closed with 50 mission cap and i i even as at that point i was 60 15 maybe and i knew that the tip the hip toured all the time and i remember gourd saying it right at the end right before they walked off stage he said thank you we are never going away and i just again i was naive i i right i you exhale like it's it's well yeah because'm thinking now, did you catch one of the final three shows in Toronto during the farewell tour? I was at all three in Toronto. And I have four regrets in my life. And one of them is I was offered a ticket to the one in Kingston for $700.

And one of my four regrets in life is that I didn't... Joshua, you can't take it with you, buddy. I do. It lingers, that one. But yeah, anyway, Gord said that. And I just, I honestly, I ended up going to, I think the final tally was four. I've been, I saw them 45 times. Yeah, that's wild.

In four or five different countries around the world. And so I just, I honestly, I think that's probably. Really? Okay. Can you name the countries? Because we know one is Canadaada and one is the united states but what are these other countries where you saw the hip so i saw them twice in london uh on two separate tours i saw them in belgium and i saw them um in the netherlands in 2006 what's it like seeing uh the tragically hip in the netherlands like what's that like like what kind of venue so it's called a big festival no i mean they were doing festivals on that tour but it was at um a place called the

paradiso which i know is like a pretty big venue but as i understand it it was a converted church they had old stained glass windows still up there and you spend the day doing what you do in amsterdam and you go to the show feeling kind of like you're walking into something magical because you're you almost feel like you're gaming the system a little bit because you're like you know what a hip show is like in canada and then you go and it's it's a little more cerebral um there's all the the the audience um the dutch audience is a lot more patient and kind of willing to hear things out instead of just shouting and they're not yelling hip hip hip yeah and um you were also able to get really close i remember i was right like hanging on the front

row um it was yeah that that's that's special because you you know what you're seeing is not going to happen very often and so that's that's kind of because again like you you know that you can go see them at the amphitheater every summer, but you take it for granted. It's a, it's a part of the Canadian experience. Hey, we all, I think we all took the hip for granted in a lot of ways. Oh my goodness. Hey, so, uh, what's the name of your book about the tragically hip? Well, that one, um, so.

And can you buy it anymore? Um, I don't know. And, and maybe not, maybe it's, it's better that some things just kind of float out into the ether. Uh, it was called escape is at hand, uh, tales of a boy in a band. And look,

I mean, I, I spent, I, I, I mean it when I say I spent about 10 years of my life following this band, spending a lot of money to just go along with this band on tour, kind of in like a grateful dead type way.

Sure. And, um, I, I just kept doing it and doing it and then you know you get to a point in your life where you just kind of move away from the things that you dominated your teenage and university years and i just wanted to document it because i really felt like after that i learned more about the world around me through following

their hip than i did at university or anywhere else. Love it, man. Yeah. So, and Barclay wrote a book about the hip as well. Barclay's is a thousand times better than mine. Barclay's is the Bible. Mine is just for me. I'll read yours and get back to you. I have to find, on the dark web, I have to find a copy here, but that's awesome, dude. Like I didn't even realize the hip story, but of course that Joe Thornton story about Gord Downie was just story but of course that joe thordon uh story about gourd downey uh was just amazing of course that was you like you know it's like it's like all the dots are connecting now what like i had no idea they had that kind of relationship joe

thordon and gourd downey um yeah i didn't know they had that kind of relationship but again like i was a you know i i for a while i was ashamed to, ashamed to admit it. I don't know why, but I was obsessed with the hip. Like I, I played them every single like party I went into. I would commandeer the, the whatever music we were playing and I'd put them on and I talk about them. And I obviously went all around the world seeing them much to the chagrin of my parents and their bank account. But as you follow like a band that intently, you read, you devour everything. I remember reading that Joe Thornton was Gord Downie's favorite hockey player. And then you just kind of store that in the back of your head. And then, do you want to hear the story of that? Yeah. Look, I'm really proud of that story

too. But, you know, you store that in the back of your head. And then when Joe signs in Toronto, um, you think, Oh, okay, this is interesting. Uh, I wonder what I can kind of do with that. And I was putting together as soon as Joe signed. I mean, I think a lot of people know Joe Thornton is this incredibly gregarious character. One of the great characters is just in NHL history, full stop. And I said to my editors, like, I want to do untold stories of Joe Thornton. And I got to work on it right away. And, and I remember thinking, I know that Gord was, um, his, uh, Joe was Gord's favorite

player. I wonder if there's a connection there. And it was right around that time, Joe our gourd had one of his solo records coming out um after he had passed and his brother uh pat um remarkable guy was was doing some promo um you know and i i kind of reached out to the publicist and i said i i'd love to just ask about him and see kind of see if there's anything there and right away the publicist and pat were like yes we want to do this um and so i know and and i i hadn't i had interviewed gourd once and i it was you know it was heavy and great and i'd met him a few times um i you know i have a lot of stories about that and um i uh so i i got on the

phone with with pat his brother, and he said, this is the one I've been looking forward to. And I was like, okay, I'm not really sure what I thought. Maybe there'd be one story of them hanging out at a bar one night and something funny happened. Right. Um, but he starts, Pat starts telling me all about their relationship and about how, um, you know, during that world cup of hockey in 2016, as

after the final tour, Joe would go and hang out at Gord's house after Gord had explicitly told his family, I don't want any visitors. He was the only person that Gord kind of allowed in. And he just, and so we talked for a long time. I specifically remember my wife and I were house hunting and we were very late for an open house that we really wanted because I just couldn't get off the phone with them. And even at the open house, I was texting some of my colleagues being like, oh, we got something here.

This is, this is big. And I think a lot, even then they were like, yeah, okay. Hip guy. Like this might not be, um i i was like should i include this in the first story you know the the untold stories and what should i do with it and um i'll give a few of my colleagues all the credit in the world because they were like take a deep breath settle down this is like let's wait to see if joe will talk to us about this um and that took a long time to kind of um to convince Joe, you know, Joe said

he had to go to Gord's family first and kind of see if they, A, if they would vouch for me, two, if they wanted to kind of broach this. And, you know, I assured them that, you know, first and foremost, I'm a fan and I just want to, you know, keep adding layers to, to Gord's incredible story. Um, and I don't, I don't know if this helps, but this is kind of the, this is very inside baseball, but, um, so I got, uh, I heard from the Leafs PR, we said, Joe, Joe will, well, Joe is willing to do the interview. He's going to call you tonight. And they were in Vancouver, the team were in Vancouver.ouver and so pr was like it's it's it might be late like they don't get to the hotel till like seven so might be 10 your time and i he can

call me anytime 3 a.m you'll take yeah well i mean this is let's let's not forget this was during the zoom era so i couldn't ask you can't ask this stuff over zoom like you're trying to kind of walk a delicate dance here 10 p.m comes um no call from Joe 10 30 comes no call from Joe I stayed up till 2 a.m waiting and the call didn't come uh which is not uncommon it happens sometimes but it's 2 a.m and I'm heartbroken the next day like I wake up and I was you know playing on the floor with my son and I was miserable because I'm like this great, playing on the floor with my son and I was miserable. Cause I'm like, I had this great story has slipped through my fingertips, got a text from Joe. Um, and he just kind of apologized. And, and, and, um, he just said, I was, I, and as this speaks to Joe and this speaks to the connection, he was like, I, me and some of the guys on the team, we were

having a, we were having like a bonding night. and so i didn't really want to interrupt that i'm like i get it school he called later and we spoke and it was very you know heavy um but then that story was hard to kind of listen and report but it was the easiest story i've ever had to write because it just came out like very quickly afterwards and i was so i mean it when i say i was so nervous. I couldn't sleep the night before, like it was scheduled and I couldn't sleep the night before. Cause I was like, am I doing like this intense friendship justice?

Um, and, uh, I don't know. I hope I did. Well, you were the right man for that job, right?

Cause you know, you can't fake that. Uh, one thing I'm in this episode, one 1122, it's kind of a cool number, but at 1,122, you can't fake that uh one thing i mean this episode went 1122 which is kind of a cool number but at 1122 you can't fake that passion like it's either in you or it's not and it's clearly in you and i i'm curious now did you ever listen to my uh well part two anyways of my conversation with kevin hearn not part two okay because part two is all about Kevin and Gord.

And you know, that, that, that interview that Peter Mansbridge did with Gord Downie was in Kevin Hearn's living room. Like this is how tight they were and working on the music and more. And Kevin was, was there for Gord till the end. And it was just quite the conversation with,

with Kevin. Here's what I love about the tragically hip almost more than anything else is if you asked every single hip fan for their hip story all of them would have a different one i mean that and and i've asked everyone and i love listening to people tell their stories but i mean it when i say every single person has a different one and i just i guess that just speaks to how wide they cast their net and how many different people they impacted in a really positive way. Right.

To the hip here, my friend. So I'm drinking my great legs here. Cheers to you. To Gord Downie and the tragic leap. Gord's actually right behind you on the wall too. Yeah. I ordered that one like 30 seconds after I saw it was available.

I know. Actually, I joked on Twitter that was, I couldn't, I couldn't part, I think it was like 50 bucks or something. I couldn't part ways fast enough. Like, yeah, like I think I beat you there. 18 seconds.

It's in, it's in. The Cheney Wenjack portrait. Yeah, that's in, that's in my living room too. I was, I was talking with colleague today, Terry Koshan. We were chatting. He's a big. He's an FOTM.

Yeah. Let's get that on the record here. Terry Koshan, FOTM. He was an FOTM. Yep. Let's get that on the record here. Terry Koshan, FOTM. He's a big, he's a big hip guy. And we talk about, we were,

we were, we were just talking about them today. And, and I was telling him about how I, I remember seeing Gordon 2017 when he did his secret path stuff. And I do remember, cause he kind of asked, he was,

we were talking about the same thing. He was like, do you ever think about how we're not going to see them anymore? Cause we were talking about like what it. He was like, do you ever think about how we're not going to see them anymore? Because we were talking about what it would be like for them to tour and they just did a thing in support of Buffy St. Marie the other day. And I remember, I think a lot about that secret path stuff a lot.

And I hope more people do. I know we're doing this a few days after Truth and Reconciliation Day, but that's kind of, again, there's so many layers. There's so many different stories. But seeing him in 2017 right towards the end was, yeah, something I'll take with me forever.

So, okay, so I'm hearing this great passion for the tragically hip, but when abouts did you, you know, discover your passion for writing about sports? Has this always been in you as well? Yeah. I've been accused of being too passionate at times. I think if I get into something, I go all in.

Yeah. I mean, as a kid, I was just, I was raised on sports. That's what my dad and i did i mean i we i think about the the 10 games we went to in that 92 blue jays season together and how i kept all the ticket stubs and my the thing i always asked we're talking about christmas the thing i always asked for at christmas time was like the latest like sports almanac and i would like to you know piece together trades and i would like to kind of like envision trades and i was just i was a real real sports nerd and i just that's the thing i always wanted to talk about i played soccer full-time i never played

hockey or anything else i was soccer year-round um so yeah i mean like i i don't think i'm alone and in that regard like i just i was obsessed with with sports from a young age so did you go to school like for journalism like what was the next uh stage there yeah funny enough i i mentioned what one of that this is the second of my four regrets in life um i want to hear them all today i uh i didn't i went to school i went to the university of guelph um for i enrolled in political science i got accepted to carlton for journalism and i didn't go and i wish people have told me it doesn't matter but i still felt like when i really got into when i started working full time, I was a kind of, there was a lot of technical stuff that I didn't get

if had I gone to J school and I. It's like Hoosiers. You gotta, you don't get the ball right away. You gotta learn the fundamentals. Yeah, I'm not. And you get the ball. Yeah, I'm not so much for theory. I'm more for practice.

So I went to Guelph for two years and, or sorry, for three years. And I, I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. And, and I, uh, I, I, I, I know that this probably isn't the best term, but I dropped out of school. Um, and I went, uh, to go teach English abroad, um, went to Poland and just got, you know, doing a lot of writing on my own. And I went there for a year.

It was probably the best year of my life, obviously, just living in Central Europe and teaching. And it was in a great town, Wrocław. Anyway, I came back to Guelph after that year and I started writing for the university newspaper, The Ontarian, doing music journalism. And really got into that heavy heavy and that's when i kind of said this is something i'm gonna try to do um it took a long time but that's that's kind of how i got into i guess writing amazing okay so what's your first like professional writing gig so this is kind of a a long kind of story, but then after. You're on Toronto, Mike, you take your time.

I appreciate that. The home of the long form. I appreciate that. My, my, my partner, Jess has said she'll do dinner, bath time and bedtime with the four year old. So I got time. This is great. Well, I don't have that kind of time.

Thank you to her. No. So after I graduated, I, I, I don't have that kind of time. Thank you to her. No, so after I graduated, I went, she was a girlfriend at the time, but my wife and I went to go teach in Istanbul. Not Constantinople. No, no, Istanbul. We lived on the Asian side, which was super cool. And they, so I don't know, you know Time Out magazine?

I might know it. I'm drawing a blank thinking what it is. I, for some reason, thought everybody knew. Time Out was like the English magazine all over the world, and it's kind of like a city guide. There it came out monthly. And so I got a gig there interviewing all the bands that would come to Istanbul.

And I'm not all of them. There was like eight, I think, uh, like of Montreal and broken social scene. And so before they'd come, I do the interview and then I'd go review the gig and I got paid in Turkish lira. And I just felt,

yeah. And I, I mean it when I sell, when I say it felt really weird. I'm like, you're, I would have done this for free. Right.

You know, you guys know that. Right. Um, so I don't say that on the record. Cause you know, you guys know that, right? So I love it. Don't say that on the record because, you know, places out there will know that. Oh, and people do. And I did.

And people do know that about me. And I did for a long time. Even if it's true, you got to hold that closer to your chest, I think. No. Once the word's out. I'm passionate and an open book too. No. And so I loved doing that.

And I kind of thought, wow, this is like a real thing. And then I, uh, we were in Istanbul for a year. And then after that, uh,

my, my wife is from just outside of Vancouver. And so we moved to Vancouver and I started doing some freelance stuff for the Vancouver sun, which was like, okay, is this like a real, like,

you know what I mean? But that's mainstream media. But I got, man, I got hooked like that that the and and i don't feel this way anymore but for the longest time that freelance rush was a drug i was all i i hustled i worked i didn't i i never took no for an answer and so that that kind of was was the way in for me because I just would

not, I would not give people the chance to say no. So that's kind of, that's, that's how I guess I got started doing this as, as work. So you're, you're living in outside Vancouver? Is that what I'm hearing? We were in Vancouver. My wife is from outside Vancouver. And so that's kind of why, that's why, that's what drew us there. What, what draws you back? Like when do you return here? Uh, yeah. So we were in Vancouver for a few years and I,

I started writing a lot more there. And then, um, we, it's as we do, as we did a lot through our twenties, my wife and I moved to, we moved to Melbourne,

um, for work for her. And, and I just wanted to tag along. And that's where I started writing for their version of, I guess now magazine, for work for her. And I just wanted to tag along. And that's where I started writing for their version of, I guess now magazine, like the alternative weekly.

Yeah. And I started doing that like a lot. Like it was, I was kind of pigeonholed, but I liked it. Like, and literally every Canadian band that came, they were like, go interview them,

go talk to them. I understand. You'll correct me now if i'm wrong if i got some bad intel here but uh the tea party are big in australia is that true the tea i think jeff at the time he lives there now he lived there so yeah now i think i interviewed him it was and i mean it like all these canadian bands and they'd get on the phone with me thinking they were going to hear an australian doing like their pre-tour promo um what's sorry what's the lead singers from billy talent uh ben kowalschek

thank you um to tie it all together as a man who lived in poland you should know that last name uh i should i should that one's on me now i i'll call him Ben. Yeah. So I did a phoner with Ben in anticipation of them coming. And he asked me about, or he mentioned that they were at the Paradiso when he was doing the interview. He's like, we have a show in a few hours. I'm like, oh, the Paradiso. I'm like, I saw the hip there. It was amazing. And he like, just there was this long pause.

And he was like, yeah, am I on the phone with like a good old Canadian boy? I'm like, you are. You speak Canadian. So yeah, I did that there. You know, Ben worked at CFNY. Yeah, of course. the phone with like a good old canadian boy i don't like you speak canadian so yeah that's that's i did that there you know ben worked at uh cfny yeah of course of course you know these things back in the day the i grew up on the edge like not not like literally but like i that was what era uh you know so i know you're a bit younger than me now i'm so my era for there was like the all request breakfast do you remember that? Like that's my,

my dad and I used to listen to that on the way to soccer games. That's on weekends, right? The all request, the all request breakfast. And like, that's when they would still play like a little bit of like joy division and stuff.

I, man, I love that. Cause I'm like, what? A little taste of the spirit. What am I listening to? Yeah.

Did you have a favorite, a favorite edge host? Edge 102 host? Great question. I'm full of great questions, Joshua. Buckle up. No. You are.

No, I don't. And that would be a disservice to say one. I think Strombos is great. But no, I don't know if I had one. It was more about hearing these bands that I was like, what is this? Do you listen anymore to Edge 102? I don't. And not because I think it's, you know, I just.

Too much Lumineers? No, I'm just kidding. I just noticed their sounds did soften significantly with the, what I call the, not that there's anything wrong with it, but the Mumford & Sons Lumineers, uh, about 10 years ago, I guess we had that wave. It's not even that. And I, and I understand it's the realities, but too many commercials. I, I have like limited time to myself and in the car or whatever. So like, that's my, that's my podcast. And I mean, usually like making phone calls in the car too. So like,

no, don't, I don't get a lot of time for the edge anymore no yeah okay you're not alone okay so uh where are we at yeah you're in australia and then uh what happens after melbourne yeah and that's when um i mean my wife and i had spent uh like between vancouver and melbourne we proper backpacked against across Asia for six months. And, and I mean like, like proper, proper, like Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam. It was like real, real like boots on the ground kind of stuff. Yeah. And we were. Get all that out of your system before the kid shows up. A little bit. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's kind of, that's what kind of, that's how my wife and I met was on the road and we never really stopped for a long time. But I remember we were kind of on a train in China and I mean this and I kind of looked at her because I was, it was just like some long day of travel. And I just remember I looked at her and I said, I need to slow down. I need to get to work and because I need to like I felt I felt when we

were traveling like I was missing something and obviously I kind of wish I had spent a little bit more time in it but I wanted to get to work I wanted to like write more and and do more of that for work and so I said I think we should move to Toronto after this and she said okay I was kind of hoping we could move to Vancouver and I said I don't want to go through this. Like, yeah. And, and I'm sure, you know, I'm not the only person to have kind of gone through this Toronto V Vancouver struggle, but, um, we, I mean, it's kind of where my family's from. I grew up outside of Toronto and we had friends here and I knew this was kind of where the industry was based. And so this was 2013. We kind of put the backpacks in the, um, in the closet for good and they've stayed there. And, um, yeah, here we

are. All right. Well, how did you decide you and your wife, how did you decide what neighborhood in Toronto to put down the roots? Um, the, the, the, the person that I thank, uh, first and foremost in the acknowledgements of my latest book, um, his Adam and he's a friend and a brother and I emailed him from Melbourne. I'm like, hey, where are we living? Where should we live? And he gave me a list of like six places and College Street was one of them. And we got a basement apartment just off College Street. So cliche, but we did.

And it was, I shudder to think what that basement apartment would cost now. Well, shout out to Sarah Harmer, basement apartment. Yeah, so College Street. Okay, that's a cool neighborhood you've chosen there. And yeah, very cool. Okay. And you're still there now, that neighborhood? Nope.

No, where are you located to? Where the hell do you live now? Well, I understand we're on the Toronto Mike podcast, but we were one of the many couples that could not afford Toronto. So at the end of 2020, we bought a place in Hamilton. And so I think you're going to find more and more people are going to be coming to you live from Hamilton, I think. It's worth the drive. I just talked to FOTM Ralph Ben-Murgy, who wants to come back on. But I'm done with the Zooms with Ralph.

Like if Ralph wants to come on Toronto Mic, which he's welcome to come on anytime he wants. He's a dear friend. He has to make the drive. And he basically concedes the feat. He's going to hop in his automobile and get his butt to the studio. Yeah, I'm the guy that tells anybody that will listen, it's not that far, really. It's not that far.

It's not. But how long will it, like, be honest with me, when you get in that car to go home, what are we looking at? Yeah, today. Because you might hit rush hour, and now I realize where we are. It's almost, you know, it's a quarter to four almost.

Like, what are we talking here? Be honest. With traffic? With the realities of today at like if you left at let's say 4 30 absolute best case scenario 45 minutes worst case probably more like an hour and a half and you know what i whatever like i if that's the like if that's the downside is a little a little more time in the car like i i we there was a story out in the globe about it today. Like we read all the time, how difficult it is for young people, youngish people to afford homes.

My wife and I found a home in a great neighborhood where my kid can grow up. Like I'll take it, man. If that means an extra 45 minutes to like listen to some more sports radio, I'm not going to complain. And you know, you never know when you'll bump into a junk houses, own Tom Wilson, right? Like that's like an added bonus of living in Hamilton is that you might bump

into Tom Wilson. It's Toronto light. I mean it, it's Toronto light. I, I, I feel like I should be getting, uh,

you know, a subsidy from the Hamilton tourism board, but Hamilton is great. Um, and listen, like our entire street, it just off Ottawa street, like our entire street is filled of young families with kids.

My son's age. We're like, we couldn't afford Toronto, but we wanted to, we wanted to raise our kid in a city for, that was a priority numero uno. Right. And so Hamilton. The hammer it is. He's going to have some street smarts.

That's for sure. Shout out to John Harvey from Monster Truck. My last guest on the program. He's a proud Hamilton. The hammer it is. He's going to have some street smarts, that's for sure. Shout out to John Harvey from Monster Truck, my last guest on the program. He's a proud Hamiltonian. But I did hear, tell me, I did hear prices in Hamilton had shot up as well. It's not that big a savings anymore. We got in right before.

Under the wire. Right before things got ugly. And I mean it. My wife and I are like, we're never leaving. We love it here. We're never, we don't want to go through that,

that whole thing again. But it's quite the trek. I mean, I guess you got the go train, but if you want to make the, if you want to go to a TFC match at BMO field, that's a, that's a,

that's a true endeavor, but you can hop on the go, I guess, and pop out at exhibition. You could, or you could go to a Forge FC game at Tim Hortons Field and take in the Canadian Premier League. Okay, well,

listen, we're almost at the soccer time. I wondered how long I could go before we do it. And I'm very keen to talk to you about this Canadian men's national team that's got their eyes on the World Cup here. I'm very excited to dive in, but because you made that trek,

I got some gifts for you to bring back to Hamilton for you. You ready? Okay, so you're already drinking your Great Lakes, but you're going to bring home some more fresh cans of GLB. They're a proud sponsor of this program. So shout out to Great Lakes Beer. That's going home with you.

Do you enjoy Italian food? I devour Italian food. Well, you came to the right place. Palma Pasta. Palma's Kitchen from Palma Pasta. They're hosting TMLX 11. That's on December 3rd at noon.

And that's in Mississauga. So they got four locations in Mississauga and Oakville. So even closer to you than I am. So they sent over a large lasagna for you to take home. It's in my freezer. That's going home with you. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

There's a flashlight there. If you pull out that paper plastic thing, if you pull it out, you can turn that on and see that. It's going to keep you safe. Those dark Hamilton nights when you're roaming the street. Make sure that works there. Yeah, hit that.

There you go. There you go. Canna Cabana, they got a location in hamilton they will not be undersold on cannabis or cannabis accessories that cozy is for you so when you're drinking your great lakes it won't be cold in your hands and thank you sticker you from uh sticker you.com is where you go there's a toronto mike sticker for you joshua you take that home i don't know where that's gonna end up but you let me know i'm gonna give it to my son he loves stickers he puts them all over the house.

Our kitchen is just his sticker board. So this is fantastic. Thank you so much. No, you're welcome, my friend. And I have more for you, but I'm going to hold on to that because I want to find out how you end up at The Athletic. Yeah. You are at The Athletic, right, Joshua? I am.

You hesitated there. No, I'm kind of I am. I was there. No, I, I, um, I, I'm kind of rolling it back in, in my mind. Um, yeah, I was one of the first,

um, people that, that kind of, um, that the athletic brought on board. I mean, let me guess. Let me guess.

So Myrtle brings on Sean Fitzgerald and then you're next. I was there pre, is that right? I was there pre Myrtle. Pre Myrtle. Pre Myrtle. PM and post M. That's what they-Myrtle. Is that right? I was there pre-Myrtle. Pre-Myrtle. Pre-Myrtle. PM and post-M. That's what they say at The Athletic.

Pre-Fitzy. Pre-Fitzy, for real. I know, I know. Yeah, I had, so like, I guess around 2015, I'd been doing music journalism here in Toronto. I was writing for NOW Magazine. I was doing some stuff for The Star. I was doing a whole bunch of freelancing everywhere for a variety of reasons the the the sports passion if we can call it that

was just too big to kind of over overlook and i started pitching stories about sports but i wanted to i guess what i thought is that it felt to me like so often in music journalism, and this isn't the case for everybody, but it felt like so often the people that you would get to speak to would just be promoting a new record. Right. And it just, sometimes it felt like that's that the opportunities to tell stories kind of off the grid weren't always there. And so I was really drawn to sports in that way. And some of the first stuff I

started to do was for vice sports and they gave me some runway to just tell kind of different stories. And that's what I really, really got into. Um, and I remember meeting, I, I, I, I texted or emailed, um, Fitzy and, and this was before we were working together. I think he was at the star of the post at the time. And I said, I need to learn more. Can, can we have a beer? And like, you know, Fitzy is, is the best. I owe, I owe a lot to, to Fitzy. And we went out for a beer and he, his advice to me was just find the stories that no one else is telling. And like, that's something that I like think about a lot of days, almost every day. And, um, so I kind of started doing a lot more freelance stuff. And right about the time the, um, the athletic had started in Chicago, um, I was doing a lot

of work, uh, with Kevin Kennedy, who was, I think then it was called homestand sports. And now he's with the parlay, you know, he kind of does a lot of podcasts and events and they had reached out to him and say, who are some people that we should be talking to? And Kevin suggested me. So in a lot of ways, I owe a lot to Kevin. And anyway, I went and had lunch, I think with one of the founders and we kind of talked about this big vision and like, this was in 2016 long before everything. And I was just kind of, I like, as, as I'm sure it's evident, I was like, I'm all in, like, I really want to do this. I love the concept. I love the idea. I'll do hockey. And like, that's kind of what they were into. And right at the end of the conversation, I said, Oh, and I do soccer too. And they were kind of like, Oh, okay. What?

Like that wasn't kind of in our plan. And we're like, but no, but I'm going to do that. And I'm going to do it. Like, I'm going to drive to the net hard on that. And yeah, so I started freelancing in the beginning for them. And this was when it was like me and John Law and Eric Kareen and Blake Murphy and Caitlin McGrath. It was super, super early. So you're there in 2016, right? Right.

So I actually just looked it up. Okay, just for the record here. When James Myrtle and Sean Fitzgerald drop by to announce they're going to conquer Toronto, the athletic, blah, blah, blah. The date of that episode is January 4, 2017. So Myrtle came on, I think, in December. And we started because that season was

Marner and Matthews and Nylander's first season. So we were like, we got to start covering this team. And I was doing a bunch of freelance stuff for other places at the time, Sports Illustrated, The Guardian. But that was that first season, that 16, 17 season. And I remember Myrtle, you know, I met with Myrtle when he started and, and, you know, there, it wasn't quite clear what my role was going to be, but I was just like, again, I just kind of told them,

like, you're going to have a very hard time getting rid of me because I'm not, I'm not going to let go. Yeah. Cause they, they probably heard you in a podcast say you'll work for free that that was working against you. I'm sure they did. And I listen, you know, it's, it was a big part of me cause I, I just,

I wanted, I wanted to do it all. So yeah. So that, that's kind of how I got started there. Okay. That's exciting. I just,

who did I have? So coincidentally tomorrow is former, uh, I, a very recent episode actually is Andrew Stoughton. Right. Who was with the athletic. And that was actually a real cool episode because he just told it like it

is. He's like, here's what happened. I'm not there anymore. And it was, it was really interesting. So people should check that out. Uh,

Hebsey, Mark Hebsey, I co-host a show with him every Friday and he's, he's often got a bee in his bonnet about the athletics baseball coverage. he feels like the, you know, John Lott retired shortly after Stoughton was let go, and it doesn't look like they were ever replaced over there at the athletics.

So there might be a need to upgrade on the baseball side. Do you have any announcements you want to make? Is anybody coming on board to talk baseball? I have zero announcements. Zero announcements. Okay. So also, coincidentally, tomorrow,

former athletic guy, David Alter, do you bump into Alter often at Leafs practices, et cetera? You cannot get near the Leafs without seeing David Alter. David Alter is the, I'm pretty sure last season, Dave told me this

and I don't think anybody has said he's wrong, that Alter was the only guy to go to every single game. Well, here's the funny thing about Alter. So he did, yeah, he's always there, but always for a different outfit. Have you noticed? He was the fan guy.

He was the athletic guy. I'm losing track now, but there were a few other stops along the way. And now he's got a new gig, right? He's like, is it Sports Illustrated? Where is he now? I admire Alter's work ethic. I really do. I love the tenacity. I really do. Yeah, I do. I love his... I love how he just goes after... Did you ever talk music with Alter? I mean, Alter and I were very aligned in the fact that he was super obsessed and he still is super obsessed with one band and he's traveled around the world.

I overheard him talking about this band today. He's a huge U2 guy. Huge. Okay. So this is, and you know, listeners of Toronto Mike know this already because we talk about it often. But if you ask Alter what's his favorite song of all time? Do you know what he'll tell you? No, I don't. You're sitting down?

I just want to make sure you're comfy. You're sitting down? Okay. And again, art is subjective. I need a caveat off the top here. You know, your jams are your jams. You know, no, I guess maybe a little judgment, a little judgment, but that's not proper.

I shouldn't be judging somebody's love of art. But Alter's favorite song of all time, Discotheque by u2 see i think pop is a really underrated u2 record i love it i mean obviously their best record is the joshua tree for obvious reasons oh shout out to hamiltonian daniel lenoir for sure but no i love pop um staring at the sun um playboy are really, really, that's a really, really good record. I like it when bands take chances. I like it when they go left to center. Are you telling me you can't, like, put on discotheque?

Here's what I'm telling you. Forget all the music and all the world. Okay. I would be suspicious of somebody who said their favorite U2 song was discotheque well again i'm an asshole no no but do you not think david alter has listened to every single u2 song over and over and has probably like this isn't just him saying oh that's a great song right like so if i if i gave you if i told you my favorite tragically hip song and it was not the one you expected would you not stop and say yeah but you've also probably listened to them more than the average bear

so you have the right to to go that way okay but i'm trying to think now of the the the the catalog of tragically hip music of which i think i've heard there heard it all i don't think there is a song that would compare to discotheque like Like there's a few, you know, you know, some people can say, you know, the vaccination scar and some of this, like, oh, that's not really. No, I like, I like, like think about it. Discotheque comes in nice and slow, but don't, but don't. And then it's that boom. I love that part.

And oh, good for Alter. You guys got to stick together though. But, but this is all just a teaser because tomorrow at the same time, same channel, David Alter's in the hot seat and we're going to get into it. So tune in for that one, okay, Joshua? Yeah, you can take as much time talking about Alter here as you'd like. I love it. On that note, I get PR notes from people

trying to get people on this show all the time, and usually I say no, to be quite honest. But I have been pitched the guys from Alter Bridge. I think we're going on 30 times now. 30 times I've been pitched the guys from Alter Bridge. Have you heard of Alter Bridge, I think we're going on 30 times now. Like, 30 times I've been pitched to the guys from Alter Bridge. Have you heard of Alter Bridge? No. I'm giving you a quizzical look.

Okay. Take Creed. Take Scott Stapp out of Creed, and the rest of the guys are like Alter Bridge. But it's just wild to me how often I've been pitched the guys from Alter Bridge. So that's just an aside. So you get tons of pitches. Why did you say yes to mine? I didn't know.

Well, yeah, but I was considering yours four years ago. It took me four years, but no joke. I mean, the reason I said yes to you, which is a slam dunk to me, is that I'm very excited about the World Cup, okay? And we're going to talk about my story with soccer, but I'm just going to give you one more gift here and shout out two more friends of the show because they're brand new and this is exciting but maybe i saved the best for

last not that anything could beat the the beer and the lasagna there but what you have there my friend is a bluetooth speaker that's courtesy of manaris manaris yeah it's because it's it's quality yeah when you sync that to your phone and you're blasting some hip blade or titty i mean like this is a good speaker bluetooth speaker but you have to do me Yeah. When you sync that to your phone and you're blasting some hip later today, you're going to be like, this is a good speaker, Bluetooth speaker. But you have to do me a favor. When you have that Bluetooth speaker all fired up, you're going to be playing the We Are...

Yes. Sorry, I butchered the line. The Yes, We Are Open podcast. That's a Moneris podcast production. People know FOTM Al Grego. He's done the Best Of episodes. He's my audio guy for TMLX events. He was in a band that played the first three TMLX events. Al Grego is a great guy. And he hosts the award-nominated Yes, We Are Open podcast. He's been traveling the country,

interviewing small Canadian businesses. And then he tells the story of their origin, their struggles, their future outlook. It's a very smart podcast by a very smart guy. So you're going to listen to season three of yes, we are open. It was nominated Joshua for outstanding business series and outstanding branded series by the Canadian podcast awards. That's the real deal.

You excited? Very. What a pitch. That's the real deal. You excited? Very. What a pitch. You should be pitching people. They won't say no to you. Is there a podcast I want to go on? I'm trying to think now. Do you have a podcast at The Athletic?

I don't. I'm one of eight people on the planet not to have a podcast. You must be a frequent guest on footy podcasts of some note. I don not a, you must be a frequent guest on footy podcasts of some, of some note. Does,

I don't know, James Sharman, I'm trying to think of who's got the, the footy podcast, but you must be asked frequently on these shows. Yeah,

I, I like talking about it. I mean, I, I, I find just, you know, at the athletic covering

both the Leafs and Canadian soccer, it takes up a lot of time and, you know, maybe there's a world in the future where I have a podcast, but no, I,

I, I find that, you know, storytelling with the written word takes up a lot of time of mine. Hey, do you know the name Stephen Dame? Of course. Okay.

Hitmuseum, hitmuseum.com. Right. So, cause I know you're, you know, a scholar of all things hip as I am, I'm nowhere near your level,

but I used to frequent the hip museum all the time. And just coincidentally, I wrote, I do this thing where I like, on this day, this person was on the show, and I link to shows from on this day in years past. And Bruce Croxon,

who was like, he's the Lava Life founder. He was on Dragon's Den. He was on the show on this day in 2020. So I tweeted about it. And Stephen Dame replied, and he just talked about how he taught that guy's son, and he was like a solid guy,

and he gave him a hug in the TTC or something. And I got this note from Stephen Dame, and I'm like, it's funny to think of Stephen Dame in any other context because I think of him as like your tragically hip historian. And then what a weird coincidence that I'm speaking to another tragically hip historian right now. Well, I mean, as I said, they loom large over all of us.

They really do. You can't go a day without the hip kind of entering your subconscious. Well, I'm going to get you, I'm going to get Stephen Dame, and I'm going to get Michael Barclay all on the show at the same time. I would really, really be into that, mostly to pick their brains. But I talked to Michael a bunch for stories, and I remember I talked to him kind of during the writing of the book. Yeah, man, we need more hip retrospectives all the time. No argument from me.

And I know Al Grego from the Yes, We Are Open podcast is a massive, tragically hip fan himself. more hip retrospectives all the time. No argument, no argument from me. And I know Al Grego from the Yes, We Are Open podcast is a massive, tragically hip fan himself, without a doubt here. Do you have any money? Like, do you,

you don't have to give me specifics, but do you have any money you could leave before you leave, you leave the studio here today, but you, you invest any money, even if it's RRSPs or I don't know, RESPs or are you making any investments in your life? I try to make more emotional investments than financial. I'm really working hard at that. That four-year-old is going to go to university. Listen, I'm going through this right now because

my second born just started university, but she decided to go to McGill and the price hike when you go to Quebec, I'm looking at these and she lives on campus there. Like the sticker is like, oh my goodness goodness it's really expensive and i mean resps i'm just thinking off the top of my head here but resps man just go back in time go start early and cap maximize it every year you'll thank me later but if you want some good insight some smart uh advice the advantaged investor basically if you want to learn how to plan invest and live smarter, the Raymond James Advantage Investor podcast features insights from leading professionals. You get valuable

perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed and focused on long term success. Here, industry specialists share resourceful insights on economic events, longevity and retirement planning, growing your financial legacy, and more. Hosted by Chris Cooksey, who's also a frequent listener of this program, should be listening right now. The Advantage Investor. I'm going to be sharing new episodes of The Advantage Investor on torontomic.com. Give it a listen. Cooksey does a good job talking up the experts.

And you'll learn a great deal. And now I want to learn a great deal about the Canadian men's soccer team heading to the World Cup. Let me tell you very quickly, I did not play soccer as a kid. You played soccer as a young man, right? A lot. I grew up in Oshawa, which is, I would argue, one of the biggest hockey towns in the country. And so I was one of the 11 kids in Oshawa that played soccer.

I'm kind of jealous. I don't know why I was, I mean, nobody put me in soccer and it wasn't on my radar. Like just soccer just wasn't a sport that I played as a kid. And therefore, even though I'm much older than you, I have zero, zero memory of the 1986 World Cup. The first World Cup I remember tuning into was the 1990 World Cup. Take us back here. Again, the name of Joshua's book, and you're going to want to check this out

because it gets deep. It's cool. Oh, I had a tune to introduce us. Holy smokes, Mike. Wake up here. I'm just going to tune, a little tune to kind of get us going here as we talk soccer here.

And again, Mike, talk over this part. The Voyagers, Canada's men's national team's quest for the World Cup by Joshua Cloak is available now. Starhawk in a street visual, please From Herald Square to the heavens, earth and seas Let the land move its people Draw a slide Joshua, what are we listening to here? This is, you know, in the pantheon of great rock and roll bands. This is Constantine's from Guelph, Ontario.

To me, legitimately one of the most underrated rock and roll bands in Canadian history. They don't play as much anymore, but you're playing this song because I included the lyrics uh as the epigraph in in the front of the book um in in part because constantines are awesome and i included them at the beginning of my first book uh on the tragically hip but you know this song for a few reasons first of all the constantines constantines always remember like remind me of the cold like they're they are the band that I listen to if I'm fighting my way down the QEW in the middle of winter. But two, this was legitimately one of my favorite songs of all time. And it hits me in a pretty great place. Partly because I think it's about the idea of going out on your own

kind of against the wind. And I would listen to this song and I would be reminded of, you know, the men's national team. There's a line that's there, you know, overtake our history seeking strength and mystery. And I thought about that and I thought about how much that kind of spoke to this men's national team and how they were kind of going out in the wild on their own and doing things in a way that hadn't been done

before in Canada like I also I'll be honest again this is very inside baseball this is kind of how the I love inside baseball yeah this is kind of how the how the pies are made on the side of the 401 by Coburn but like this I when I would kind of be struggling with the pies are made on the side of the 401 by Colbert but like this I when I would kind of be struggling with the book and I would maybe maybe my confidence had dipped and I was like what am I doing is this going to be any good I'd hit out in the car and I'd play this song aggressively loud and I'd come back feeling a little bit better so uh this is how I this is this is my juice this is how I get ju All right, let me soak it in for a moment. Tros rai Tros rai

Tros rai Hey! Tros rai Hey! Trust right. Hey! Trust right. Hey! Trust right. All right, I'm pumped up.

Pumped up, Joshua. But first, I'm going back to 86 because I read the history books. I read the Wikipedia page. I have learned that we were there. We were in the 1986 World Cup. We were there. We didn't do very well. They didn't do very well. Yeah, and that's where the book starts is the 1986 World Cup.

Canada qualifies by, again, not coincidentally, they qualified on a frigid cold September day in in St. John's Newfoundland um which is just an amazing you know feat that the men's national team head coach Tony Waiters says well we we get to host this final game and if we win we're in and so instead of having it in Toronto or Vancouver and making things really comfortable for the opposition we're going to have it in September in, in Newfoundland. And there were people that, um, you know, there were, there were fans of the opposition that couldn't find the place and got lost. Who was the opposition? Well, you've read the book. No. So, so, so anyway,

I guess that the whole point of the book yeah 1986 1986 is just incredible because you know i think when people think about canadian soccer they think about um these kind of workman like defensive players because for so long that's what this men's national team was you know the alfonso davies of the world were far far you know far to come. And that's what this team was. You know, the 1986 World Cup team was a bunch of semi-pro players. Their best players were not even playing outdoor soccer at the time. They were all playing indoor soccer. And Tony Waiters, the head coach, kind of looked at the team and said,

right, we're not going to have the most technically gifted team. What we're going to have here is a team that is going to be able to run the opposition into gifted team. What we're going to have here is a team that is going to be able to run the opposition into the ground. These are guys like there were, there were guys on the team that were like water meter readers in Victoria. I mean that it's just this incredible story of these guys that really had no purpose being there and had no purpose. That's kind of where I start the book is,

is them lining up in the tunnel ahead of their first game in Mexico against France. And they're looking up and down the tunnel against the reigning European champions. And these guys are saying, what the hell are we doing here? But some of them didn't get, some of them just had honestly had no idea who these guys are. They were playing for the Edmonton Brickmen. And they're kind of saying what... One of my favorite stories that I uncovered during the writing of the book was how Tony Waiters, the head coach,

the day before the game against France, again, Canada playing France. It's not unlike Canada playing Belgium at this upcoming World Cup. To kind of put his team at ease, Tony Waiters, the head coach, in his video session, he started purposefully butchering the names of the french players to get a laugh out of his out of his team so that they

are they're at ease and they're like these are just guys and look canada had them until the 81st minute um so yeah that's kind of where i wanted to start the book because like you know we're talking international soccer the world cup is the be all and end all so you know, we're talking international soccer. The World Cup is the be-all and end-all. So, you know, this team goes. And in 1986, I think for a brief moment, people in Canada thought, could we go back every year? Are we about to become a soccer nation? Obviously, the opposite is true. And for a generation, the men's national team was both an afterthought and a disappointment. So that's kind of where I wanted to start the book.

And that was kind of the 36-year story I wanted to tell. Yeah, tell yeah like so so back to me you know it's all about me here i'm trying to make i'm uh again never played soccer didn't know anything about soccer never watched a minute of this 86 world cup didn't even know canada was in the 86 world cup at that time i was really all about the blue jays and about the uh the maple leafs they were my teams didn't care about soccer to be quite honest. I had a friend who was of West German, well, German descent, but at the time it was West Germany.

And he got me into the 1990 World Cup, of which, of course, there was no Canada. That was the first game, that was the first soccer game I ever watched, by the way. It was the final of the 1990 World Cup. I sat on my grandparents' ugly green carpet. My grandparents came over from bad wilden in germany in in 1954 and so i was told i'm a german national team supporter and i was

told you're playing soccer and i never argued with any of it i love it it was a big part of who i am but that 1990 which is notoriously one of the most boring finals of all time and i kind of remember thinking like, what am I watching? What is this? But it was that togetherness of being around family and kind of just like, I don't know, you feel like, because I remember as a kid, you'd get in, I was into the Jays. And as a kid, I had a hard time understanding like,

well, why are none of these guys from Toronto? You know, I didn't really kind of get it. But then you watch the German national team, you're like, well, why are, why are none of these guys from Toronto? You know, I didn't really kind of get it. Right. Um, but then you watch the German national team, you're like, oh, they're all from this place. And it's, you know, if I know at the time, it's not the right word, but it was unified. Right. So, uh, I really liked that. And that's kind of how I got into the game for real. Amazing. Now, so this, because I don't remember 86 and we started here in 1990, if you will, my, my awareness of this thing called the World Cup and the very popular around the world, believe it or not. And I never once until very, very recently, I never really thought of Canada

and World Cup in the same sentence. Like this was just, we just, I just took it for granted that Canada was never going to qualify for a World Cup. Like,, the book is where you get the details, and people should check it out. The Voyagers, Canada's men's national team's quest for the World Cup. But when abouts is there that inkling of hope that where we are now could happen, that here we are on the verge of World Cup matches featuring Canada's men's national team? When did that hope arise? Yeah, one thing I kind of learned throughout the reporting of this book

was to really keep the questions simple. And I would ask literally every person I talked to, like, why do you think Canada's here? Why did this happen? And the answer I kind of got more often than not is MLS coming to Canadian cities in 2007, starting with Toronto FC, was a huge turning point because there's all these other factors, and I hope I covered them all in the book.

There's the rise of multiculturalism and diversity in Canada's population, right? There's soccer being a very cheap alternative to hockey, and in and around the 90s, soccer becomes the sport that more kids play than any other team sport. That all contributes, but you can have that interest. But if you don't have, I know it's a term we use a lot in soccer, but if you don't have a pathway to keep kids in the game, then kids are going to get out of that game. It's kind of like the Vince Carter effect in a, you know, in some ways, but so MLS coming to Canada allows these professional teams to have professional coaching in their academies. And it just provides

a pathway for young kids to say, I don't have to leave home and go on some tenuous agent connection to some strange place in Europe. I've never been to, right. And i can stay here and i can play here and i can be a professional in my hometown which is the way things go in every other great soccer country around the world like if if you're a young player in germany you don't have to go abroad you can stay at home and play and get professional coaching and graduate up the ranks and And I think MLS coming was a big start of, of team of, of players stopping and players developing at the right level. Like it's important to remember here.

It's incredible. Canada's at the world cup because for years, I mean like an entire generation, Canada didn't have a professional league. Right. Canada had the CSL, which lasted for six or seven years after the 1986 World Cup.

Oh, so that's where the Toronto Blizzard would play. Ish, yeah. There were all these different teams. Because I just remember we had a Blizzard. I never saw him play, but I knew we had a Blizzard. We did have a Blizzard. We did have a Blizzard.

And I'm not talking Dairy Queen. No, you'd have all, but listen, this was a big part of the book too, is like talking to all these like national team players in the 90s, in the two thousands. And they, you know, Pat Onstead, who was the Canadian goalkeeper for a while, he told me this great story about how he was a Canadian men's national team player. He was the goalkeeper for the Canadian men's national team.

And he met his future wife in a bar and he, he was having a great indoor season and he felt all this confidence and he, his, his future wife said, Oh, what do you do? And he said, I'm a professional soccer player. And she said,

no, but what do you really do? And he was teaching as well. Like this was the reality is that guys would have to, in the nineties, 2000s national team players had to do double duty. He was teaching in Edmonton and he, he kind of,

you know, he said, well, I'm also a teacher. And she was, oh, wow, what a catch. And so that was the reality is that if you were a national team player, you weren't playing professionally in Canada. If you wanted to be, if you were really successful, a friend of a friend of a friend maybe knew a coach somewhere in, you know, somewhere in Europe and that's where you'd have to go. So having a professional league in Canada, you look at this men's national team,

you go up and down the roster, Sam Adekube, Jonathan Osorio, Daniil Henry, like there's so many players, Alphonso Davies, that got their start in Canadian MLS sides. And that's, when we look back at this team, that's going to be a huge turning point. Now, I know you're probably used to talking to footies. Is that the term?

And these are people who love soccer. Footies? Footie fans? Let's go with footie fans. I've never heard, I would, if someone described me as a footie, I think I'd head out the door. Not to be confused with a foodie.

That's somebody who, you know, likes good food. But no, footie fans, let's say. So today you're speaking more to the great unwashed unwashed i'd say because you're speaking to me and i know just enough to be dangerous like when elvis calls and says hey you want to come sit in the supporters section for a tfc match like i'm all excited and i love it and i love it but otherwise like watching tfc on television i've only ever tuned into playoff games like i've never tuned in to sit down and watch a regular season TFC match on TV. But, and we're going to get there,

what happened that we suddenly were in the World Cup? But I will say, this qualifying tournament, it was appointment viewing for me. I'd find out where it was, and I would watch every minute of these qualifying matches to qualify for the World Cup. I loved it. Why? What got you into it? would watch every minute of these qualifying matches to qualify for the world cup like i very like i loved it well why what what got you into it like what would appeal to you i think what mainly would appeal to me is that they were good like uh this was a the competitive exciting team

that was able to win matches like that was huge to me like oh look we can win like we we won that table right what do you call that a group again top table. You're going to help me with the language because I don't speak the language. Yeah, we were top of the table. I know we had a chance if we had won that final match, we would have gone to a better group, I guess, in the World Cup.

If they won that last match against Panama and a bunch of other results fell in their favor, then yeah, maybe they're in pot three. Okay. Maybe, but you know. And we're getting ahead of ourselves because I got to talk about on the way there. But one i want to just point out uh is that uh even though i never felt until until a couple years ago i never felt like oh canada and the world cup could be something

together i always was well aware and passionate about the fact that our women's team was very competitive like they were always a threat and i mean we just won a gold medal at the Olympics, which was best on best. Like that's how good the Canadian women's team has been. So why is it that the men's team has been so far behind until now, the women's national team? I mean, there's probably a few reasons. I think the depth of competition in the men's game is just that much kind of wider.

So sort of like in hockey? Because in hockey, we know that the finals will be Canada versus USA because we realize that the other nations don't have the depth. Yeah, and look, I also think a lot of credit needs to go. The entire turnaround of this women's team is not just because of one person, but I think we should be putting Christine Sinclair

on our nation's currency. Let's do it. Let's replace the queen that passed away. I think there should be putting Christine Sinclair on our, on our nation's currency. Let's do it. Let's replace the, uh, the queen that passed away. I think there's a few, you know, Canadian soccer players that don't get talked about enough as the greatest Canadian athletes of all time. I think Christine Sinclair is a case. And so much in the way Alphonso Davies is a truly generational player. Canada had Christine Sinclair who could literally win games on their own.

And I think, and what happens then too is other younger players look at christine sinclair and say i want to be like her right and that success is kind of self and that's like the vince carter effect sort of for real and i think we're going to see a bit of the alfonso davies effect too we're gonna we're gonna get to him for sure but first before we get to him i just want to ask about the the role of john herdman yeah look i i people have told me this and and and i've said this and i i think it's it's not i think it's not unreal to say this i don't think there's been a more important person to this men's team's turnaround than john herdman there are a lot of other very important people but john herdman has galvanized players he's gotten them to buy into um a cohesive style of play he's gotten them to

buy into team culture culture isn't isn't the best word to use with sports that was a lesson fitzy always told me like what is culture define it but john herdman has has created this quote unquote brotherhood um because as i kind of wrote about in the book for a long time, players wouldn't show up for Canada. National team players would turn down the call for Canada because they thought maybe we wouldn't win. They kind of were worried about losing their spot with their club team, but players show up for Canada. And John Herdman has done an incredible amount of work behind the scenes to raise money for the program and to make sure players are as prepared for games as possible. Like it, you know, I was talking to Alistair Johnston and men's national team defender a few weeks. I was in Montreal working on a story

and I just kind of asked him, why do you think Canada is going to get out of the group, the group stage? And he was telling me this great story about how John Herdman, for every player, prepared a 64-page document just on one of the teams they're going to play for the World Cup. They have homework. So the point is that Canadian players never go into

matches unprepared, and I think all of that is because of John Herdman. I get Fitzy's point about what is culture and everything. But when, and, you know, this is my, from my perspective, when there's a World Cup, like in 2016, or there's a best on best Olympics, like we had in 2010 and 2014,

you don't ever wonder, will Crosby go? Like, you never have that thought. I don't, I never, I never wonder aloud, like, you know, will Jonathan Taves be at at the 2010 olympic like they of course they'll go like our best on best hockey matters and our best players are going to be available if they're healthy they're going to be available this is just what i take for granted but on the basketball side i don't take it for granted on the basketball side i'm always very interested will our best you know the the best nba can, Canadian nationals who play in the NBA,

will they want to compete in these qualifying tournaments? And it's always a big question mark. And some do, some don't. Like it's not a slam dunk, pun intended. But here it sounds like maybe John Herdman's instilled some of that hockey culture of basically where you represent the maple leaf on your chest. And we're going to get to that maple leaf on your chest

later in this conversation, actually, because I have a question about that. But maybe it's, you know, Alphonso Davies, it's not, you know, if he's healthy, and we'll talk about that right now, but he's going to suit up for Canada and try to qualify for the World Cup. Yeah, and I think a lot of that is because

John Herdman has allowed players to understand that, like, everybody can have a specific role on the team. And one thing he's big on is ensuring players are not afraid. And he said this, players are not afraid of having their place in the lineup stolen by another players. I think he's done a really good job at making players aware that everybody has a role on the team and your role might not always be glamorous but there's so many pieces to the puzzle and a great example of that is a player like sam piette who again playing in montreal um playing for an mls side for the entire qualifier like sam piette has been in the national team for a long time he's just this hard-working industrious midfielder who really is the he's the opposite of a glamorous player. And throughout qualifying, he was a bench player. He'd come on when Canada needed to lock down a win. He was great at like breaking up opposition plays, a kind of a grinder to use a hockey term. And he was kind of, he was not the hipster's choice as like an important player. And I know

that, you know, when Canada qualified, there were people saying well should Sam Piet be there like it but Sam Piet bought into the idea of just doing what you're told being part of a bigger thing and look then Sam Piet starts the last two games against Qatar and Uruguay because he's ready he's prepared so I think Sam and Piet is an embodiment of both a player buying into this this this bigger picture and and John Herdman preparing players. So speaking of the players, can I ask about five of the more prominent players and maybe you can tell me a little bit about them. I'm going to start with,

and I just Googled him because I wanted to know his age. I know he's very young, but I wasn't sure how young. Alphonso Davies is 21 years old? Yeah, he'll be 22 in November. Okay, so it's like I'm just trying to wrap my brain around that he's 21 because it seems like he's been around a bit but when did he when did he rise to prominence like at what age did he become a world-class uh soccer player uh world world class probably about a year and a half ago okay but he so I'm

jumping on this bandwagon at the right time. Sure, yeah. But he gets his professional debut in Vancouver when he was 15. Right. Sorry, for Vancouver's reserve side. Okay. I believe he was 16 when he played his first MLS game. Wow. Look, I mean, the Alphonso Davies story is one that if you're not familiar with it, you need to be. And I think we all kind of have a responsibility, and by we, I mean media, whatever the alfonso davis story well i thought you meant we isn't canadians well sure because

there's so much that i think we can all learn from the alfonso davis story right he's a he's a refugee he him and his family come to canada knowing nobody um and he gets started in canadian soccer he gets started in soccer as a five-year-old thanks to a program called Footy First, which is a government-subsidized program for people that don't have a lot of advantages in their life. And he gets started playing in the game, playing for free, and his

rise to prominence is so quick. And I just think about, honestly, man, I think about that. I know it's kind of cliché, but I think about this team going to the World Cup and I can see some of the other players on your list. These are refugees. I should have made the font smaller.

Yeah, these are people of color. And I think I look at this Canadian team and they look like the streets of Toronto that I like to walk down and that we should all be walking down, right? This is a team that speaks to what Canada looks like. And, you know, to me, like, if we're any good at all as a country, it's because of the opportunities we provide people who need them.

And Alfonso Davies being at a World Cup, to me, speaks to that, right? 21 years old. Like, we're just getting started here. And how's his health? I know he had the, Mike, I can never say the word. Myocarditis. That's the word. I had to learn a lot about myocarditis. I struggle with that word. Yeah. No, Alfonso Davies will be fine. He's starting games for Bayern.

He played both friendlies in September. Alfonso Davies. Look, if Canada is going to have any chance of winning a game at a World Cup, which is a strange sentence to say out loud, they are going to need Alfonso Davies to steal a game. And because he is, I'm a believer that in tournament football, game breakers win.

Game breakers are what you need. And I think Canada has one or two. And I think if Alphonso Davies can have like one of the best games of his career, Canada has a chance to win a game. I'm so excited. November, right? I don't have to wait that long here. Just another month or so.

November 23rd, their first game against Belgium. Okay. And we're going to talk about the specifics of these three matches we've got in the World Cup. But Jonathan David. Yeah, I think, is he 23, Jonathan David? He's 23 or 24. Another young player.

You know, Jonathan David is a dual citizen. He's an immigrant from haiti so again like we're talking about this team you know 22 22 there you go um jonathan david uh made the unconventional choice as a young player who's playing in ottawa um and multiple mls clubs wanted to bring him into their academy but he was so focused on going to Europe. And as a teenager, he went on trial for a few clubs in Belgium and he finally catches on in Belgium, I believe, as a 19-year-old. And Jonathan David is just a remarkably strong, astute goal scorer. And he has a very good chance of being

Canada's first ever goal scorer at a Men's World Cup. Right, because we should remind people that, uh, 1986, we were nil, nil, nil and out. There was not a single goal scored by the Canadian squad. No,

uh, there was a red card. So there was, there was some flair for the dramatics, but no, Jonathan David is probably going to line up as, as Canada's, you know,

on the right side of Canada's front three. Um, he's having a terrific season playing in Lille in, in French, sorry, France's first division. I believe he has eight goals, which is right behind Neymar and Mbappe. Wow.

Yeah, so he's a player that, he just got shivers. I'm excited. I'm legit excited for this team. I watched this qualifying tournament, and just it would build. It was like, this is appointment viewing. This is like, these are rock stars, and we're going to be in the World Cup.

Well, here's two things to kind of remember about this men's team going into the World Cup. First of all, so many of these players are young and so many of these players, probably because of what they do at the World Cup, could move on to bigger clubs in the winter transfer window. And I don't think it's unfathomable that come December, Jonathan David will get a move from France

to a huge mega club that I think even the most casual of soccer fans will know. And I think he's on the path to becoming a household name because he speaks French. Well, if it's a huge club, it's either going to be a premiership team,

it's got to be... Premier League. Premier League, thank you. Hey, be, it's got to be a premiership team. It's got to be. Premier League. Premier League. Thank you. Hey, listen, I'm hanging in there. I'm hanging in there. Or, you know, you hear about like Real Madrid and teams of that ilk.

I think he probably goes to England. But yeah, listen, he, and this, what's great about this team too. Hebsie wants to know if it's the Tottenham Spurs. Is that the team that's getting. I doubt it. You don't know. Okay.

I doubt it. We'll stay tuned. They might not the team that's getting... I doubt it. Okay. I doubt it. Well, stay tuned. They might not be able to afford them. That's exciting. Okay. Kyle Lahren. Yeah. So Kyle Lahren is part of this group of players from Brampton, Ontario.

Brampton is legitimately the soccer capital of Canada. So many of these players came from Brampton. Kyle Lahren kind of was raised at an academy here just outside of Toronto, Mississauga, the Sigma Academy that a lot of young players played at. And Kyle Lahren was the first overall draft pick in Orlando. And he went abroad at kind of a young age. He went to Turkey, went to Belgium.

You know, Kyle Lahren is one of these players that I think for a while he had so much talent talent but it just took him a while to kind of put all the pieces together and kyle larin i think is is probably going to be canada's starting center forward um he's just a real strong player that can hold up the ball well and can finish he doesn't really need a lot of time to to finish and he's a player that has had a real up and down career for canada but i i think he's kind of peaking at the right time and um he's a player that i think a lot of people are like that's what i i'm gonna enjoy just kind of as someone standing back and watching how a lot of people get into to this men's national team like every for for people that love like the

clinical the the guy that doesn't say a, the like real stern kind of serious guy. That's, that's Kyle Lahren. And I think he's going to win over a lot of fans there. Amazing. Amazing. Okay. Jonathan Osorio.

Yeah, I, I am a big Oso fan. I, I partly because I've covered him for a long time with Toronto FC, but here's what I know. Like Jonathan Osorio has been at Toronto FC since 2013. It's kind of hard to imagine him going anywhere else,

but he probably, he might after the World Cup. Jonathan Osorio is your typical central midfielder in that like he's so vital in terms of getting the ball from the defenders to the forwards. He likes to slow down play. He's a super intelligent player, but what sticks out to me with Osorio more than anything else is he loves playing for Canada,

probably more than any other player. Jonathan Osorio has this innate ability to raise his game for Canada. And he's, he's a soccer junkie, right? His parents are from Columbia, right? We talk about multiculturalism,

diversity. This is Jonathan Osorio, but he just has an ability to raise his game for Canada. He is the guy that teammates sometimes hate because he drives them so, so hard. But man, like Jonathan Osorio is, is such a passionate player.

He's the player for Canada. Like you can kind of look at this list and you can think about, like let's say they score or something happens and what do their celebrations say about them? Jonathan Osorio is the guy that will kiss the badge on his shirt if he gets a goal, as he did when he scored a huge goal against Mexico in the Azteca. So yeah, Jonathan, if you're,

the Patriots are really going to take to oso love it and how's his health yeah i think it i and i exhale because like i want oso to to osorio to be there right um because i know how much this means to him and i know like how long and and i got some great stories for the book from the book about Jonathan Osorio and like what he had to go through to play for Canada. And I, without ruining it, he is, he's the last person to speak in the book is the image of him on the field

minutes after Canada qualifies for the world cup is, is the closing kind of image in the book. And I just think that Jonathan Osorio is very aware of, of what the legacy of this team will be. So he's suffering. He took a, an elbow to the head, um, this summer and he's been struggling with a neurological dysfunction, not a concussion. Um, he hasn't played, uh, for the last few weeks and he didn't make it to Canada's camp in September. Um, but you know, he's one of these players that if he is cleared and, and you know,

he's, he's going to be on the field. He's so vital to Canada. Well, here's hoping. Okay. And last but not least, uh,

Atiba Hutchinson. Yeah. Atiba Hutchinson has a chance to be the oldest player at this world cup. You know, he's going to be 39 at this world cup. Um, which is kind of, I'm going to be 39 at this World Cup and we're talking about him.

Are you going to the, are you going to go to Qatar? I am. Wow. Yeah, the hairs on the back of my neck just stood up. I think about that every day. That's just the order of things

I think about. Gord Downie. So is the athletic covering your trip or is it self-financed? No, we're all going. Look at that. That's amazing.

I think that's amazing. So Atiba Hutchinson has been in Canada's program We're all going. Look at that. That's amazing. I think that's amazing. So Atiba Hutchinson has been in Canada's program for literally 20 years, right? And I wrote an entire chapter about Atiba Hutchinson because I firmly believe he is the greatest Canadian athlete Canadians have never heard of. You know, he's been in the game for so long. He's played more games for the men's national team than any other player. in the game for so long he's played more games for the men's national team than any other player he's arguably the most intelligent player on the team and just in terms of his kind of deep lying midfield role the poise the calm that he has really helps canada dictate games but he is an incredible professional you know that i know this is a an easy thing to say but the nicest guy on

the national team and the guy that like everybody is kind of rooting for newsworthy stuff. He was back in training after, um, he had a bone bruise that kept him out for a few weeks and he didn't make it to the September camp either, but he was training for Besiktas. Um, today his team in Turkey.

So look, he'll, he'll be wheeled onto the pitch. He's got to be there. Well, he's, he's played for some mediocre national teams, right?

Like most of them were mediocre if we're being honest like that i still don't have a grasp and we did talk about some things that changed you know the mlse coming to canada and then we talked about the coach and his coach we talked about different things and then of course the players like david and davies it doesn't hurt when they come of age and they're in their early 20s now but it still kind of feels from, from my, from a guy who didn't follow it like you did.

It's just seems like all of a sudden it feels like a light switch. All of a sudden it's like, Oh yeah, that men's national soccer team is good. Now you might want to tune in. They might actually, you know, qualify for the world cup.

It felt very sudden to me. I'm sure it did, but it wasn't sudden at all. Right. Because you had to have a Tiba Hutchinson showing up every single camp, even when he didn't want to. Atiba Hutchinson did not, like, it's hard for these guys to get on cross like transatlantic flights.

And for a long time, you know, the, the CSA would book them, you know, not in first class, they'd be stuck in middle seats. And, and Hutchinson had to go through that too. But I think Hutchinson continually showing up for Canada. And there were points where he didn't, right. There were points where when he started having kids, he didn't, but, you know, and then he comes back into the camp. And I think, you know, John Herdman deserves a lot of credit for getting him back into

the men's national team. And I think that kind of continued loyalty and service turned on a lot of young players. And they kind of said, if Hutchinson and Osorio can keep doing this, we have to do it too. Okay, let's get to the nitty gritty here. So we've qualified for the World Cup. We have three matches scheduled. And I guess these are groups of four and I guess two advance to the next round is how this works at the World Cup. So the top two teams in your group will advance

and the bottom two go home. That's how it works. So Canada starts the tournament. And I'm glad we're talking about this because I mean it. I live in this bubble, I think. But I really hope that more and more people get into this. Well, we need to preach to the casuals, the mics out there, the Toronto mics who don't live

in Bree, because the footy fans, the guys who live in Bree's soccer, oh, they're already all in. Like, this is just their life, right? Like, we got to talk to those bandwagon jumpers because they need to understand, they need a little one-on-one, uh, you don't need too much just for soccer, but you need a little one-on-one 101 like who are the people why why should i care a little context in terms of like hold on a sec here's why you should care here's why you should care right you you live in this city you're in and around the city all the

time what happens in the world cup what happens when the world comes right so yes you're right the people go to their ancestry they go no but you but you can go and when there's a world cup game on and a big one, you know the city slows down. This is a fantastic place. Oh yeah, sure, if Portugal's playing, or Brazil, or Italy, or Greece, yeah, there's certain teams where the they look at, where my grandmother's

from this country, and on that note, though, because I know where you're going with this, but, I have an idea, but, my neighbor John, who was born in Toronto, born and raised in Toronto, you know, cheers for the Leafs,

loves the Jays. He's just a Toronto guy, but his parents emigrated from Croatia and last world cup, he flew the flag. He was very excited, man. Always wore the Jersey, always excited.

And I just asked him in passing, I said, uh, you know, when Canada plays Croatia at the world Cup, who are you cheering for? And he kind of looks at me and he goes, I got to cheer for Croatia. Like I heard him say these words. Does John have kids?

Yes. He's got a daughter who's very, very young. So who do you think is going to latch on here? Who do you think? And I mean this. No, hold on. I mean this. You got me.

And I mean this. So when Canada played the U.S. in qualifying, I mean this, I mean this. Um, so when they, when Canada played, uh, the U S in qualifying, they played in, in beautiful Hamilton and, you know, I went to the game and, and we live close enough to, to Tim Horton's field that when there's a big game, you can kind of hear it in our backyard, which I love. Um, and you know, my son was kind of asking like, like, can I come? And I'm like, Oh man i i really wish you could you know my my wife was like like dude don't worry we're gonna watch the game like we're watching all these games like don't worry we have to and look i grew up watching the german national team

because i i had to and i and and i still do my wife sends me a clip of, we have a little trampoline in our living room and my wife sends me a clip during the game. Man, maybe I should just find it. Is it better audio if I find it? I'm going to start talking. If you can find it, yeah. Then you can hold it up to the mic there.

And so the point is, is that my kid is four and he doesn't really kind of know what's going on. He doesn't really know the, the, the sport or anything like that. Um, but he, he gets into it. I'm going to find it after, but he's watching the game. And my wife sends me a clip of him jumping on the trampoline and he's just shouting're not trying to like stoke you know the patriotic fire here but the point is is that's what he will have grown up watching and i i actually said a few weeks later i was talking with john herdman i showed him that the clip and and he said to me like that's the reason why we're doing this stuff you're absolutely right the kids who can grow up with a competitive national team are going to bleed red and white. It's these Gen Xers I know that grew up with sort of as I did without Canada having a chance in heck and therefore had to find a rooting interest and would just go to, I don't know, Nona's team.

You know what I mean? Like it makes sense. And then I think, I think, not myself because if I have to go back far enough, it's virus descent and they rarely seem to qualify for the world cup. But, but when, uh, you have decades of rooting for a national team, that's not Canada.

You don't just, I don't think people just shake it off. Like, okay, now I'm switching over. Like, no, for sure.

John can't shake it off, but his daughter, you're right. His daughter is going to be, uh, you know, flying the flag. Look,

and I'm not saying like, we're going to wake up tomorrow and, and soccer will have dethroned hockey as the sport here. I know, like we all know, and it sounds like I'm kind of like pumping the tires for the sport, but I mean, I'm obviously invested in the sport.

What is the beautiful game? Yeah. But I mean, I'm invested in it emotionally because I love the game, but I mean, I do think there is a world, and I don't know if this qualifies as a hot take, but I do think there's a world in which 20, 25 years from now, we are talking about soccer as the most popular sport in the country.

And I say this on the day that another bombshell about Hockey Canada was released. And you look at the rising price of hockey and the culture of hockey. And you, I just, I guess I wonder if we're going to look back on this World Cup and 2026, which games will be here as the point where soccer became not necessarily a fringe sport or the sport you just play in the summer to stay fit, which is why, which is what a lot of teammates of mine in Oshawa did. But I wonder if, and look, there's, there's precedence for this happening.

Cricket used to be the most popular sport in England. And this, we're talking a long, long time ago. Sure. But there became a point where football there overtook it. And I do think if it's ever going to happen in Canada, it might happen. Okay. Pointed, very pointed. Yes or no questions for you, Joshua. In cascading order here. Okay. Will Canada score a goal in this World Cup? Yes. Okay. That's a yes.

I'm hopeful too. I think that'll be like, remember when Bilodeau won the gold medal in Vancouver and we said, okay, this is our third time hosting the Olympics. Montreal had it, Calgary had it, and now Vancouver has it. And that was our very first gold. And it was like, okay, we did it. And then the floodgates opened. But okay, we're going to score a goal. We didn't score a goal in 86.

Will, this is a tough one. And remind me, it's Belgium, Morocco, and Croatia, right? Yeah, you flipped last year. What order? Belgium, Croatia, Morocco. Okay, I know it's in my Google calendar because I'm not missing a minute of these matches. Good. Will Canada win a match?

What does your crystal ball say? Yes. Whoa! I know. Morocco? Well, that's probably the one that people have circled as the winnable game. But strange things happen at the world cup strange things happen

all the time that's why we watch this tournament right last last world cup again i cheer for the german national team it was a brutal tournament right things happen at the world cup and i think what this can what this canadian team can do and i a big reason why I think people will really get into this team, is they can go to a World Cup. They can play without any fear and they don't have to worry about coming back to their country. And if they lose, they're hunted down on the streets the way that it, you know, like, look, again, I know I keep talking about this team, but when the German team doesn't get out of the group at the last world cup, it would be like Canada, not like getting out of their group stage. If there's a best on best at the Olympics, like what are we talking about?

That's front page news. This won't happen. That, that, that won't necessarily happen with this Canadian national team. They can go and they can play without fear. They can play aggressive front foot soccer, which they do.

And I think Canadians will go, wow, look at the effort these guys are putting in. They're not going and bunkering. They're going after games. And I know for a fact, this team is going to go after games. Okay. So we've got a goal. We've got a win. Now here's the last big one.

Can this team, Canada, can they advance beyond that initial group stage there? Well, you made it easy for me can they sure sure will they could your crystal ball is ready to tell me i mean there's a world in which they could but like i i was i again people ask me that like it's getting to like the point where i'm asked that every day and i was asked that today uh by someone at the rink and I think the best that they can get is probably like four, I shouldn't even say that. I think four points is probably. Okay, and a win is three and a draw is one.

So if you get four. A win and a draw. It's conceivable that you can get a draw. Then does it go into the goal? What is it, goals four? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is the tiebreaker there? First it's goal differential, is it? Goals for? What is the tiebreaker there? First it's a goal differential,

then it's most goals. So four is like, I think there was one or two teams that got out of the group last time with four points. So it's going to be tough, right? And, but you know what? Like you tell me again, you are just, you're Joe Q Canada.

I'm just jumping on a bandwagon about 18 months ago. But if Canada goes to the World Cup and they play aggressive soccer with a consistent effort, they score goals and they get one win. What is that? Is that a success to you? Yeah, because I'm of a baby steps guy. Like that's a big thing.

And then I can look ahead to when we actually have matches here. Like the next World Cup will host a couple. I think the expectation in 2026 is that they get out of the group for sure. That's I think, yeah, I think this time it's, we're, we're playing with house money here.

We're there. I would like to see a goal. That'd be exciting. And, uh, if a win would be wonderful getting out of this, you know, I can wait four more years and let these,

you know, the 21 year old be 25. You're going to watch these, you're going to watch them play Belgium and go, Holy shit. These other, these guys are good. Right? No, I to watch these, you're going to watch them play Belgium and go, Holy shit. These other, these guys are good. Right?

No, I mean, I, you know, I mean, you know, I've got reasonable expectations here. Question for you.

This has been getting a lot of chatter. I mentioned I was at TFC. So I was talking to Elvis for, you know, two hours. And we were talking about Canada being the only country that's not getting a world cup kit kit, by the way, fancy word.

I need to tell the great unwashed like myself that you soccer people call your uniform kits. Yeah, Canada is the only team going to the World Cup not to get a new kit. And it is a big deal. Well, that sounds like bullshit to me. What's up with that? Well, I wrote in depth about this at The Athletic. And it's a story that I got a lot of feedback.

A lot of people read it. Um, and I think that's because people are angry about it. Players are angry about it. The official reason from Nike is that Canada is on a different kit development cycle. I believe that's a quote. Um,

like kits take a lot, world cup kits take at least 18 months to prepare. And so 18 months ago, did anybody think Canada was going to go to the World Cup? And so I don't know if it was like a huge priority. Well, you prepare for it. It sounds ridiculous that we didn't see this coming. Well, that's pretty much the reason that I got.

But listen, people are frustrated because it's been hard at the best of times to get a Canadian soccer kit. And this is a big part of it, right? Is, you know, I buy the German kit. It come World Cup time and people do, and people want to. Right. They want to fly the flag and they want to wear the stripes.

And I mean, when you go to the, I know you Google it and you go to the official like shop or whatever. It's kind of a red t-shirt with like a thing in the corner. Their kit now is a template. It's not great and like it's again like imagine like the next time there's a best on best hockey tournament and canada is just getting like a you know not a new jersey people are gonna go what is this so people are upset about it and right but at least there's history there like the canadian they to me it's more important for the canadian men's soccer team because there's just there's no nothing to draw on.

You know, you can bring back the, I don't know. Well, again, like I think what players are frustrated about is because like, you know, for so long, nobody believed in this national team.

And that's kind of what, that's, that's what kind of peeves them is that like, that's, that's the way that they think they were perceived by people making the decisions about a new kit. How would you like people to buy the Voyagers Canada's Men's National Teams Quest? There's the two possessives in there.

So it's Canada's Men's National Teams Quest for the World Cup. How would you like people to buy that? I would like them to call their local independent bookstore downtown and make sure they've got the book in stock. And if they don't, ask them and they will get it right away. But the book is for sale absolutely everywhere you buy books. Okay, my friend. This was amazing.

But is there anything? I don't want you driving home to Hamilton and saying, Oh, I forgot to tell him this or I wanted to say that. This is your chance. No regrets. Anything you want to spit into that microphone before we hear some Shakespeare in my butt on our way out? Well, I mean, first of all, I started covering Canadian soccer six or seven years ago. And I'm incredibly appreciative of anybody that has read my stuff and I am genuinely appreciative of anybody that will pick up the

book because I just want people to to learn more about this sport and the story I think it's it's very rare in sports that you yeah you come across a story that is kind of once in a generation and I think that's what's you know happening here I'm really appreciative of you having me on and letting me talk about it because I mean for better or worse it's something i care about and i just care about people getting into the game and you know probably just because i love it too so i'm excited i'm legit excited i mean these this is like i said in my calendar these three matches uh don't call me during these matches i'm all in i'm very very excited and I'm glad that you're shining a light on this great story. And anyone who's not a

footy fan and is looking for a bandwagon to jump on, yeah, you can jump on the Jays bandwagon right now. They've got a playoff game Friday. But, you know, I think the timing's going to be perfect post-Blue Jay run, which is hopefully lengthy. You jump on this Canadian men's soccer bandwagon

when they're in the world cup and uh there's lots of room for everybody and let's get excited let's do this i i mean it if if we are any good at all it's because of the the opportunities that we give people who need them and that's what this men's national team looks like to me like i i love the idea of you know kids in in in brampton or kids in a town you know, doesn't have a lot of soccer players can look at these guys and say, well, look like this. This guy plays in my backyard. I maybe I want to stay in the sport, too, because, you know, that's that's why kids get into hockey. They all want to be like Austin Matthews or Mitch Marner.

And that's that's great. or Mitch Marner and that's great and I'm genuinely happy that my son is going to be able to watch a game and be like, oh, he's pretty young now, but next time he might be into Alphonso Davies or whoever

because there's a lot of room for a lot of different sports and I hope that people, the World Cup does not come around very often and I really hope people appreciate it for the kind of special opportunity that is. It's what got me into the game

and I really hope that it gets other people into it too. And that brings us to the end of our 1,122nd show, 11.22. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Joshua is at Joshua Cloak. That's K-L-O-K-E. Follow him on Twitter. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Moneris is at Moneris. You're going to love that Bluetooth speaker there, buddy. It's great quality. Raymond James Canada. They're at Raymond James CDN. Listen to The Advantaged Investor.

EPRA are at EPRA underscore Canada. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. And Canna Cabana are at Canna Cabana underscore. See you all tomorrow when U2's discotheque's biggest fan, David

Alter, returns to Toronto Mic'd. And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms us today.

And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy now. Everything is rosy, yeah. Everything is rosy and gray. Rosie and Greg