Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Justin Rutledge: Toronto Mike'd #568

Episode Date: January 7, 2020

Mike chats with Justin Rutledge about his celebrated career in music and how they're connected.

Welcome to episode 568 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, The Keitner Group, and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. and Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and joining me this week is singer, songwriter, composer, actor, poet, Justin Rutledge. It's a pleasure to be here, Mike. That's a lengthy business card you have to cook up.

That's a lot of... I didn't write it. Well, you could have to cook up that's a lot of i didn't write it well you could uh uh taking credit for that it's a it's a mouthful but it's all true i uh verified it i did a lot of research for this episode it's all true well i guess i guess so it's you know it's funny just as a canadian artist you just sort of keep doing what you think might make you a few pennies and do that for 20 years and i guess you might have a cv i've met a lot of great canadian artists uh maybe none as great as you but uh you just you um you get used to uh critical acclaim and then you you it's hard to pay the mortgage of critical acclaim right like it's you can't go buy food with critical acclaim no no that's that's

very much true and uh that's why we uh you know i guess for the you know that's why that's why bartending was invented i was gonna say 2020 the year justin rutledge sells out like right right do you ever do you ever think like what if i just did what i think will sell like what if what if you just created music to make money like it would be a whole different would it be very different, right? Yeah, I've thought about that. And I think there's a way to do it where I can sort of maintain some sort of integrity. But what if you didn't care about that?

Well, that would take a... I've had this internal conversation with myself over and over across the years. I've had writing sessions. I worked in Los Angeles for a while, and I tried that. I had a publishing deal. I'd go down there, and I'd write these songs with people,

and they're good people, and they're good at what they do, and this is what they do for a living. But the difference between them and me, and I'm saying it's it's better i really wish i could do something like that but i really i left those sessions feeling as though i i'd committed a misdemeanor of some sort you know like i didn't i just didn't feel good and i would never go and listen to that song again interesting well you're a man of substance i sense uh money is not your primary motivation obviously no and it never really was i mean when you um it was a lot different when i was growing

up i mean i'd be happy to make make 50 bucks at a gig in my in my 20s uh you know and which i which i have um i you know i was just happy to play in front of people and right and share your art right this is uh it's art yeah and i wouldn't you know but a lot of my early stuff i wouldn't have called art i would have called it you know it's a work in progress so i i don't actually have a clue if you know that uh my brother goes way back with you no okay are you ready for this are you sitting down right here i am am. Okay, good. Good. I'm recording this live.

Let's see if we get a modified reaction. So, my brother's name is Stephen Boone. Okay? Yeah. And Steve. Oh, Steve.

Yeah. Do you know Steve? Great guy. Went to Bishop Allen. You're not just saying that. Yes. Okay, so. Yeah, he went to Bishop Allen.

And did he go to St. Pius before that? Yes. I know Steve very well. And you might. So yeah, he went to Bishop Allen. And did he go to St. Pius before that? Yes. I know Steve very well. And you might know Steve's, John Parp, Jomp. Jomp, as everyone calls him.

Who I took over, and it's going to get very inside, but I don't care. I took over a hockey pool that was run by a guy named Jason Agnew. Oh my gosh. Okay. You were Tobacco guys. And Jason Agnew,

who might be the other famous... I asked Steve who's the most famous guy from his graduating class because you're... For those who like good music, you're famous. Okay. Yeah, I know.

You're not Justin Bieber, but you're... And Jason Agnew is known to people because of his television presence and stuff. And there's a porno star. Nicky Benz. Okay. So those are the big three he told me about.

Yeah, Nicky is the first by probably a long shot. And then there's me. And then there's Jay and I are probably tied. Right. It depends. It depends. He did have the tiny talent time on CHCH when they brought that back to kind of push him. But you're right.

It depends what's going on at the convention years or whatever. And it depends if you're a wrestling guy, right? Like Jason Agnew, I think, would be very famous to you if you were a huge wrestling fan. Okay. So Steve. Yeah. Who married a girl from Bishop Allen. Did he really?

Vanessa. Do you know Vanessa? Oh, blonde. Yeah yes she is blonde not not no what's what's her last hughes well boone now right oh yeah yeah they got married they got married uh true story yes so let me just check my notes here because i got an email from steve when he heard you were coming on oh wow he said please let him know that bishop allen is proud of him so i don't know if that is the bishop is there really a bishop allen uh yeah but it was named after a person right like right but the school's proud of you and he he sent me some interesting notes so we're just gonna he says tell him that i still have the five song cassette i bought for five dollars from him in

high school and apparently our mom, because Steve and I have the same mom. That's a fun fact. Our mom was a big fan when Steve would play it in the house and her favorite song was Saturday afternoon. Oh, does that take us? Is that the origin?

Yeah, that was a, that was my hit off of the album. Well, thank you, Steve. And I hope, thank you, Steve. And I hope you and Vanessa, please, I'll say hi right now to him and Vanessa.

But Jason Agnew, getting back to Jason Agnew. Yeah, of course. So there was a school trip that was, we were in the drama class together and there was a trip planned for New York City and I couldn't afford to go. So I had an uncle at the time, uh, who had a reel to reel cassette, my uncle Mike.

And so I went over to Mike's place and recorded these, I think there was 10 songs on the record. Um, and I recorded 10 songs and Jason Agnew said he would help me, um, produce it. Sure. And, uh, so we went over to Jason Agnew's house and, and our friend Mark took the cover photograph and we photocopied all of the covers. We made 150 copies and,

uh, we high speed dubbed them all. Sure. And, uh, we produced 150 and I sold them all. I don't even have a copy. Wow.

And, uh, I ended up going to New York city. That's amazing. I love that story. That's wild. That's amazing. I love that story. That's wild. And the reason I brought up the taking over the Jason Agnew hockey pool,

which I still run every April. I still host this thing, which started at Bishop Allen with Jason Agnew running it, is because you mentioned Jomp. And for years, Jomp, as we call him, was in this pool. And I guess he moved to Alberta.

Calgary, yeah. Or even maybe more Fort McMurray or something. And then I've never seen him again. So I hope he's doing okay out there. I'm sure he's doing. I was a bright guy. I go way back with Jomp. I was in kindergarten with him.

So we went to St. Cecilia's together in the junction. Wow. And then to Bishop Allen, yeah. I know it well because I spent my first three years of school at St. Cecilia's. Did you really? Yeah. Oh, yeah, because you might know our cousin Kevin.

And Richard. Right, the twins. Sarah and I know all those. I actually saw them over Christmas. Wow. Rich was back from New Zealand. Shut this down. This is too much.

This is too much. Okay, Vanessa, by the way, and Steve, love your latest Passages album, but we're going to get to that. And he, what is he talking about? Whether your St. Joan of Arc reference in Good Man is an ode to the Joan of Arc church at Keelan Bloor. It is.

It is indeed a church that my folks and I used to go to when I was a kid. I think they still go to it. They spend their time between St. I think they still go to it. They spend their time between St. Cecilia's and Joan of Arc. So I guess it is a reference to that. The movie The Cinderella Man, which was filming the night that my young,

let me see, my second born was born the same night they were filming this movie called Cinderella Man. And this is neither here nor there, except to say they filmed a bunch of the scenes in St. Cecilia's Church on a net there. Yeah, there's a scene where the community goes to listen to the boxing match on a radio, and that radio is in St. Cecilia's Church, and there's a whole bunch of scenes.

Wow. Cinderella Man, it's a great movie, actually. It's really good. I've only seen the second half of it, but I gotta go back. You gotta go back and check out the St. Cecilia scenes. Well, that's where I got confirmed and christened and, no, I got christened

elsewhere and that's where, I'm not a practicing Catholic by any way, but that's where I got, you know, my confirmation was in First Communion. Wow. Lots of midnight masses. Wow. Okay. Amazing. Small world stuff here, man. And the other fun fact is that all these people we're talking about

were all born in 1978, but my crack research confirms you were actually born in 1979. So you were just like too smart. I skipped junior kindergarten, yeah. There you go, because you were a January baby, right? So happy birthday to you. Thank you kindly. Since it just happened here.

And since it's your birthday, I have gifts for you. Before we dive into the music, there is in my freezer upstairs a frozen meat lasagna courtesy of Palma Pasta. Wow. Palmapasta.com if you're looking to cater your event or if you want to find out where they're located because they're in Mississauga and Oakville. And I'm swearing to you, Justin, that you're going to let me know that was the greatest

lasagna you've ever had from a store. I'm telling you. I hear this from everybody. You're going to love it. So don't leave without it. Also, and I know you're not drinking right now. Or is that sometimes? Okay. Well, you can take this home anyways because someone you know and love will enjoy fresh craft beer, local fresh craft beer.

So this is from Great Lakes Brewery. In fact, I'm going to see them when you leave. I've got a meeting there because we're cooking some stuff up. Maybe I'll have to bug you about this later, actually, but I'm working on some like live music stuff that will happen at the Great Lakes patio in 2020. Sounds hot. It is hot, man.

It is hot. So take home your six pack of Great Lakes beer. I also have a sticker for you, a Toronto Mike sticker, courtesy of StickerU. StickerU.com. You can get custom decals. They actually, on January 30th,

which is a Thursday night, they're going to open, they're going to launch a sticker museum and a permanent sticker art exhibition at their bricks and mortar location, which is at 677 Queen West. So like Queen and Bathurst area there so they already

that's the world's largest sticker store by the way queen and bathurst wow yeah right in your backyard you had no idea it's hard to believe a sticker store can can exist in that in queen and bathurst with rents and all that stuff i think the rents have been coming down a bit like because you're right i my first thought is hey you're a dot com like you're right. I, my first thought is, hey, you're a dot com, like you're a website. Anyone in the world can go to sticker you dot com and order their stickers or whatever. And now you're opening a bricks and mortar. Like it just seemed backwards to me. Like usually you are a bricks and mortar and then you go online or whatever.

But apparently the Queen Street rents are not, are not, they're reasonable. I don't know if that's possible. Okay. Okay. Maybe because everyone went.com, there was room for a sticker store. I've never had stickers. I've never had Justin Rutledge stickers,

so maybe now is the time. Yeah, I think yesterday was the time. Come on, Justin. You need my marketing assistance here. We're going to get you some stickers. Kids love stickers. They put them on the back of their laptops and their phones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a big movement now. The sticker boom is all happening here. Viny yeah, yeah. It's a big movement now. The sticker boom. It's all happening here. Vinyls and stickers. And speaking of great music, because we're going to play a bunch of your songs and talk about your great career. And I have a really special piece of audio from somebody who calls himself your biggest fan,

but I want to save that for later so we can have an emotional moment. I'm hoping you cry. We'll see. Let's hear from my friend Banjo Dunk. Duncan Fremlin here. You know me as Banjo Dunk. And on April 16th, 2020, I'll be bringing my band Whiskey Jack to Zoomer Hall in Liberty Village to host the seventh annual Stompin' Tom birthday celebration. This is the highlight of the year for our touring show, Stories and Songs of Stompin' Tom. This year,

we'll be joined by FOTM and funny man Sean Cullen, as well as Great Big Sea's Murray Foster. More guests will be announced soon. The show will be broadcast live on Robbie Lane's nightly show on AM 740 and 96.7 FM. It'll also be streamed on the internet, but there's nothing quite like being part of the crowd when everyone stands to sing what is clearly our national anthem, the hockey song. It's not a large theater, folks, so get your tickets early. Go to hellooutthere.ca and click on show to buy your tickets. We'll see you April 16th. You're not supposed to be crazy to write songs like that, but it helps a hell of a lot.

Did you ever have the opportunity to perform with stomp and tom connors no no i'd never met him um i heard he likes uh room temperature moose head though that's that's what duncan tells me yeah because um a recent guest who the hell was it somebody very recently came on and told a story about hearing that there was a person assigned to, had a special jacket with coolers built into it so that Stompin' Tom could always have a beer on demand. And then Duncan came on to say that's not true because Stompin' Tom liked his beer room temperature. Correct. Yes.

I have the firsthand account of that as well. Is that at the Horseshoe Tavern? Where was this? That was at, a friend of mine went to Stompin' Tom's house. Wow. Yeah. Where did he live? He was out in Guelph.

Oh, wow. Around Guelph, I believe. And a friend of mine who owned a venue in Toronto went out there to meet him because he's one of his heroes. And his Tom's son, Tom Jr., I believe, took him out there. And a friend of mine, my friend, who will remain nameless, loves his beer. But he had to tap out. He actually had to ghost that night because he couldn't keep up with Tom.

Wow. Yeah, and Tom wouldn't let him go. Tom likes company. And he said, I just had to get out. I would have died, I think. I don't have this built-up tolerance that these hardcore drinkers have. I think he's at least a 2-4 a day. Wow.

Because then when you pass and you get cremated, the fire doesn't stop burning, right? Like it goes for a long... You got to be careful of that stuff. It's still burning. It's still burning. And I want to welcome to the Toronto Mic family here, the Keitner Group at Keller Williams.

In fact, tonight, Austin Keitner is coming over because we're going to record some stuff. We're going to call it the Toronto Real Estate Minute with Austin Keitner. I have some great questions from FOTMs out there. You've submitted some great questions about Toronto real estate. If anyone else listening has any question at all about Toronto real estate, send it to me. You can

Twitter DM it to Toronto Mike, or you can email it to Mike at torontomike.com. Get me those questions and Austin Keitner from the Keitner Group will happily answer them. And it's great to have the Keitner Group on board here. So, Justin, where do I begin? Firstly, you mentioned you have a six-month-old. Yeah. Congrats. Thank you very much. Has it changed life?

Tell me what's happened since you had a child. Well, it's been, you know, it's the first six months or, you know what? He's fantastic. He's sleeping well. I shouldn't say this to all those new parents out there, but he's, you know, he's sleeping well. He's sleeping well. I shouldn't say this to all those new parents out there, but he's sleeping well. He's eating well. At three months, he was giving us 10 hours a night. That's good.

We're able to operate as functioning parents because of him. He's just a really good-natured kid. All we wanted was a healthy, happy kid, and he's a really happy kid. Good. Yeah. We don't have to be too specific, but you're a junction guy? kid you know all we wanted was a healthy happy kid and he's a really happy kid good yeah and you're uh we don't have to be too specific but you're a junction guy yeah for sure i was born and raised in the junction around keelan dundas in toronto and you know when i grew up there it was a very different uh area than it than it is now now it's it's one of the most popular

you know it's a very very highfalutin place. But when I grew up there, it was all used appliance stores and vacancies. And, you know, it was a lot. Like barber shops and stuff, right? Especially like Kiel and Dundas, I'm thinking. Because my buddy's dad had a barber shop. I wonder what that rent would be like now to have your, yeah. Yeah, I know.

Well, and also not a lot of Torontonians know this, daddy's dad at a barbershop. I wonder what that rent would be like now to have your, yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, it's, and also, also, uh, not a lot of Torontonians know this, but it's, uh,

it's the heart of little Malta. If you want a pastitsi, like do your six and six. You go to the Malta bake shop, get your pastitsis. They have a Malta park right there. A Malta park. Somebody,

maybe this is not true, but I remember my buddy Joe growing up would say there's a, outside of Malta, the most Maltese people in the world lived like in the junction. Yeah, it's true. And he used to always put down the Port Gozo people. I didn't think that was nice. I don't know.

This is all, I'm speaking inside Maltese talk here. But yeah, it's, I hope I got the right name there. But I'm playing the background. I miss you so much. There's no one in sight. Yep. because we played this song just yesterday when Sammy Cohen he's the drummer for the Watchmen he came over to kick out the jams and he kicked this one out and I play it because it's fantastic but I'm wondering if you could spend a moment just telling me maybe some musical influences. Who influenced you to become a musician?

What were you thinking, man? Well, it dates back. Leonard Cohen is my primary influence, but it dates back a little before that. My first band was a hip-hop or rap band in in my grade school days and i and i uh got out of that rather quickly and uh well you know i'm trying to think of your i know your age so man you were trying to be like the next third base third base or cypress hill who and um i still listen to cypress hills so i still listen to that era of hip hop a lot It's fantastic

And then In grade 10 I picked up a guitar My dad's old guitar But then in grade 11 You know in grade 10 I wanted to be Eddie Vedder and then in grade 11 My best friend at the time Slipped me a

Leonard Cohen album, The Best of Leonard Cohen. And it really identified what I wanted to do with music was to meld a certain amount of poetry and folk or rock or whatever, what have you. But I really, I always thought I was a better writer than I was a songwriter or a musician. And I thought my strength lay in my words and hearing Leonard Cohen for the first time really blew my mind and opened up the door to see that someone was,

was doing that and accomplishing that. Now, when I listened to this song, for example, many Leonard Cohen songs, he doesn't really sing, right? He just sort of,

nobody cares if the people just sort of... Nobody cares if the people... Just sort of talks with that amazing texture to his voice and reads his poetry. Yeah, and he's got a... He blends colloquialism and poetry really well. He's a real people person, was a real people person, but a very spiritual, spiritual man. And the thematics of his poetry really haven't changed.

Law, judgment, religion, Judaism, Christianity. They're there from his first song up until his last song. You know, I'm listening to you in the headphones. You've got a good set of pipes on you, man. I'm serious. What I wouldn't do to sound like that when I talk. This you in the headphones. You've got a good set of pipes on you, man. I'm serious. I would, what I wouldn't do to, to sound like that when I talk.

This is my microphone voice. How many packs a day do you get a smoke to sound like that? I just quit. I just quit. What if, what if you start sounding like me now? Cause you quit. Okay,

man, you gotta be careful. I don't want to kill my career. Seriously though, that a lot of times I will envy someone's voice and they'll and this happened with Jeff Woods from Q107

oh he's got a great voice and I mean how do I sound he goes well you got to start smoking and drinking like gin or whatever like

from the time you're like 12 years old and I'm like oh that's a high price to pay but maybe it's worth it I don't know you got to lose

the kids in the house first well there's a lot to do there. But Leonard Cohen, just going to let him finish up here because it's disrespectful to truncate. I actually got to go to Leonard's house twice. What? Yeah, so through a friend of a friend,

I got to know Leonard Cohen's son, Adam, and then a friend of ours, Michael Chavez, who produced the last two Leonard Cohen albums with Adam, was in Montreal when I was in Montreal working on a theater production. And so I got to spend some time at Leonard Cohen's house. Leonard wasn't there. I see telling the story that way is smart

because I'm assuming Leonard's there when you're at Leonard Cohen's house. And then you slip in at the end there. You're like, oh, Leonard wasn't actually there and then it's like this, aww. No, but I've, you know, he's... But it's still cool. Yeah. It would be cooler if he was there.

It would. It would have been cooler. Maybe just skip that detail. Like people will dig into this and research this. But it's a really beautiful, you know, it was a very modest house and uh very simply adorned and uh you know he's kind of a monk right like yeah he he lived a very simple life and a very minimal existence and uh he really there weren't a lot of things you know um which was

very admirable what's admirable is i think you followed in my footsteps i know we didn't know each other till today but uh you also went to u of t so is this so bishop allen and you i guess at this point you're already like my brother's buying your cassettes like you've already got this kind of like poetry musician thing you want to pursue or whatever and then you you end up at u of t i guess because you probably have to go somewhere right like yeah i i couldn't afford to uh go away to residence and so i just uh stayed in toronto um and i to be honest with you i um i sort of i dismissed songwriting. I thought it was just a hobby.

I didn't really pursue it because it's just not a viable way to make a living. And I was really interested in academia and poetry and books. So I went to university and, you know, I play some open mics here and there, but it really was not a focus of mine. And then, you know, I had bands here and there and nothing really, nothing really gelled. And I spent three years at U of T. And then I was working on a four-year

degree. Well, actually it was a three-year degree, but I could only go to school part-time because I had to work in the evenings. And then after my third year, I said, you know what, I want to take a year off and work on a record that I'm happy with, complete a record I'm happy with, write these songs, record these songs. And then after that record's done and I've done, I've accomplished that, I can say I've, I, these are the best songs that I could have written. Then I'll go back to school, finish my degree and do whatever I need to do. And I, I still have to go back to school. So is this, uh, is this album is this album No Never Alone? Yeah.

So that was the album that year I took off. Yes. That was No Never Alone. A little from that album here. Just a little soundscape for us here. God bless those girls from Barcelona Smell the roses and cocaine I hope they know their parents missed

So do them sunny shores of Spain I miss the air in this mist So do them sunny shores of Spain I miss some dancing in the kitchen Miss that long stone goodbye Too sober to sleep I'm too drunk to cry That's a pretty song, man. Thanks. Thank you.

What was the response to your first album? Well, I was working at a restaurant the day that my albums were delivered to my house, and I got a call from my roommate and said, oh my God, there are 20 boxes of CDs here. And I was really excited to get home to see them. And later that night I got fired from my job for reasons I won't go into. Oh,

that's the real talk. You know, it's one of those situations where you're, you know, you clean up, it's three in the morning, you have a beer after work, you're sitting and talking to your buddies who were your co-workers

and then your boss walks in and fires everyone on the spot for drinking after hours where you're just having a beer after work and everyone who's ever worked in the bar industry does that that sucks yeah it really sucked so i got home that night with no job and i walked into my bedroom there's 20 boxes of these god damn CDs in my room and I sat down on the bed and I cried for like half an hour so that's how it started

on the bright side the NME for example gave the album positive reviews, right? And the UK seemed to kind of embrace this before maybe Canada warmed up to what's going on. Yeah, it was interesting. Actually, working at that bar,

there was an exchange student who was from the UK who came in all the time. And we struck up a friendship because we were into similar music. And he was introducing me to old songs that I'd never heard before and he's a young kid and he mentioned that when he got when he got back to the uk he's starting up a he's going to start up a independent record label

with a friend of his and this friend of his was neil halstead from mojave 3 which was one of my favorite bands wow yeah and i said well i'm kind of working on this record would you like to hear a couple of my demos and i was just halfway through work making no never alone and he i gave him a few of the demos that weren't even finished and he was him and neil listened to it and they both really liked it and so they pressed it and released it in the uk um And most of, you know, the NME, Uncut, Mojo, all these magazines, The Independent, Guardian, they really seemed to gravitate towards it. And I mean, there were comparisons, I guess,

right off the bat to Ryan Adams, for example. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just, yeah, it was really remarkable to, you know, I'd never really gotten a review in my life before. You know, this is my first album and I'm getting these reviews from, from major, major influential magazines. And so I, I didn't really know what to do about it. So I went over to the UK and played some shows, you know. I'm surprised you came back to be honest. I was going back there about twice a year, you time. I didn't really have anyone to play for here

but then Six Shooter Records picked up my record and released it. And that's when I was lucky enough for things to start working out for me here in Canada. So after No Never Alone we have The Devil on a Bench in Stanley Park. You're owed to Vancouver.

Yeah, a bit of that. A bit of that. I walked to Stanley Park in August, just this past August here. It's beautiful. Now, legend has it, and tell me the specifics here, but you actually recorded a second album and then threw it in the garbage and recorded another second album?

Tell me what went down there. I need to know the real story there. Yeah, how do you know that? It's all over the place, man. Come on. It was hardly even tough research. Okay, great. Oh, I will shout out, I got a shout out now,

Tyler Campbell, who tipped me off to that little fact. So Tyler Campbell is who helps me book some guests. In fact, I am so important. I am so big time, big leagues here. I won't even book a Justin Rutledge myself. I go, Tyler, get me Justin Rutledge. And then you just show up at my front door. Well, it worked.

Tyler was very easy to deal with. He's a lot nicer than I am. Yeah, okay. So that's why I sick him on all you talented people. So tell me about the original second album, and tell me why it never became the second album. Well, I did end up recording a second record called In the Fall, which would have been the sophomore release.

And a friend of, this is how you know you have a good friend, my friend Basil from Blue Rodeo was playing, him and I became friends after No Never Alone came out, and he was playing bass with me at the time, and he sort of took me aside one night and he said, I have to tell you something. I don't think you should release this record because I feel as though you can

not necessarily write better songs but i think you can make a better and more cohesive album to release as a sophomore record and i really took that to heart and i and i you know i knew what he was saying um and i could hear it I could hear it all over the place the album was was good it had it had its it had its moments but it really didn't have the cohesiveness that a sophomore record should have and because you know with you know they always say you got 20 years to make your first record you got six months to make your second and uh so i really took his advice and i scrapped that record i scrapped in the fall and uh took six months and wrote eight eight new songs and um like this one and recorded it and that was

devil on a benchch in Stanley Park. I should be talking over this intro. I had a good opportunity to hit the post. I haven't heard this in a while. See, they got armchairs in Vienna Where a man would want to die They got a Ludwig van and garbage cans Where the poets go to cry In the bowels of some cathedrals You can hear a lazy ghost

scribble out his memoirs in a dusty petticoat. So you have an album called In the Fall. This is going to be your sophomore release. You get some good advice from somebody you trust who tells you, like, throw that in the garbage and do another one. And you just, this is a crazy story to me. In eight, is it eight days, you write and record the new album, The Devil on a Bench in Stanley Park?

Like, this happened? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I took, it was actually, I took a little more time off than that. Because, you know, for example, this song wasn't written. Some of my, you know, songs like In the Fall, Robin's Tune, I'm Your Man, You're My Radio, Come Summertime, the songs that I still play live to this day are songs that I had to write for the Stanley Park album

that were not on in the fall. So it was an exercise in discipline, I guess. And we really went in and recorded it off the floor. This is the band playing off the floor. We overdubbed my vocals, but aside from that, it's all live. And I really dig recording that way. When I was recording in the fall, it was all tracked. You record the drums, then you'd put the bass on,

then you'd put the guitar on. You don't really get a sense of the band playing in a room. And what is the full name of this song? This song is called The Suffering of Pepe O'Malley, Part 4. Where are the first three parts? Well, Part 3 is on my first album, No Never Alone. Part two was on in the fall,

which no one will ever hear. I have it right here. Uh-oh, do you? No. And then part one, I haven't recorded yet. There's only four parts, really. You can't do it that way. You're not allowed.

I know this is what Star Wars did, and now everyone thinks they can do it, but this is like having a movie called Leonard Part 6. Okay, you can't just drop Leonard Part 6 on us. Okay, where is Leonard's Part 1 through 5? I know, you dropped right in the middle of this story of this, yeah, traveling teenager. Pepe O'Malley.

But yeah, again, cool. But is this your first Juno nomination that comes out of this album? It is, yeah. So this was, yeah, this is this your first Juno nomination that comes out of this album it is yeah so this was yeah this album was nominated for Juno in 2006 I believe and

I got to go to Calgary to my first Junos that year and it was it was something shaved my head and everything they stuck you in I'm just checking they stuck you in i'm just checking they stuck you in uh best roots traditional soul album and i guess is that like their closest match to what we would often refer to now as like americana yeah yeah that's what they call it i think it's because you can't call

you can't have a juno award called americana because uh american is in the name maybe canadiana i don't know no i think it, I think they're sticking with roots. Yeah. I think it's kind of the songwriter category. Well, there already is a songwriter category, but I don't know. I don't know. I'm out of touch.

One day they'll just call this the Justin Rutledge Award. Stand by. All right. Here is a jam I want to play from Man Descending here. So let's get a taste of this and talk about Man Descending. When it's windy in the morning When you're cloudy all day When the night arrives at last When it just won't go away When your eyes are sick with wonder

When your heart is in a cast This too shall pass When the city turns to lilies When you're waving from a train When she welcomes you with pity and a half an inch of rain You produced this album yourself. I did.

How was that? Well, you did it more than once, so I'm hoping it was a good experience. Yeah, it was great. I mean, sometimes I know what I, I know what I want to hear. I mean, my, my music is pretty minimal to begin with.

I don't, I don't really use a lot of trickery. Um, but, uh, I just wanted to, I shouldn't even take credit for producing it. I mean,

I guess part of production is putting the right people in the room. And I guess that's what I did. Um, but I have, I've learned of production is putting the right people in the room, and I guess that's what I did. But I've learned from really great minds, so I didn't really do much. And the name Man Descending, just tell us a little bit about where does that come from? Well, at the time I was reading a great book of short stories by a guy named Guy van derag, named Man Descending. And there was a passage in Man Descending, the title story that really resonated with me. I can't really remember it off the top of my head right now, but I thought it was an apt...

Do you want it? Okay, here's the quote. Okay. A man descending is propelled by inertia the only initiative left him is whether or not he decides to enjoy its passing scene yeah i guess i i really like the idea of being propelled by inertia because inertia itself is this sort of a form of stasis and static not going anywhere and you know i just sort of felt felt of stasis and static, not going anywhere. You know, I just sort of felt a little stagnant myself. Who produced your first two albums?

Because the next album is produced by an FOTM, okay? After this episode, assuming you had a good time, you will be an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mike. Sweet. Yes, it's a very exclusive club. But your next album is produced by an FOTM, Friend of Toronto Mike. Sweet. Yes, it's a very exclusive club. But your next album is produced by an FOTM. But who produced your first two albums? So I co-produced both of my first two albums. But the first was produced by a guy named Glenn Sally and myself.

And the second album was David Baxter and myself. And this one... Just yourself. Just myself. Yeah. Cool. And we're listening to This Too Shall Pass. Which is kind of one of my favorite songs that I've written.

Just as a whole. I never really play it live very much, but I'm always... I always like it when I do play it, and I always think the structure of it is interesting. Tell me about your relationship with Huxley Workman. Well, it's been a while since I've seen him, but we were in touch last year when I was in Montreal.

Huxley, I was lucky enough, Huxley produced my fourth album, which is an album called the early widows. Um, I've been a huge fan of his since high school, since for him and the girls, um, you know, the, you know, jealous of your cigarette days, the delicious wolves, great album. I just, I think the world of him as a person, um, and as a musician sort of equally he is a really wonderful guy with a you know uh not there's not an untalented bone in his body you know he is and he's just a sweet sweet man well it takes one fotm to know one fotm so yeah no i uh i'm gonna play a song from this album but is this essentially like what could

we call this like Justin goes electric is this like your your Dylan get in the band uh going on here didn't Hawksley wanted it that way tell me yeah so you know one of the things when you're working with a producer when you hire someone to produce your album you're you're looking you know you're hiring their ideas um and you're hiring their their uh aesthetic and sensibilities um and one of hoxley's um ideas was that i don't play acoustic guitar which which i and there are two songs that i play acoustic guitar on and I had to fight so hard. Which two? Jack of Diamonds and I think just the last song all around this world.

But yeah, Huxley was a joy to work with. I am a fly on the wall of a house where the windows are always broken. I am pausing a storm on a dark state whenever your name is spoken. Whenever your name is spoken. Be a man about this. Be a man about this.

Be the coward or the kiss. Be a man about this. Now, you know, I do my research and I get prepared and I start listening to some Justin Rutledge, kind of getting interested. This is a song of yours that has been stuck in my head for days now. Like, for whatever reason. And I listen to a lot of your stuff and a lot of it's just

unbelievably good, to be honest with you. But this song, Be a Man, for something about it, there's a hook in there somewhere where it's just, it got stuck in there in my head and it's been there for a while now. Thank you. Thank you. Well, it's probably because I repeat the phrase, be a man about this about 17 times.

You jumped to conclusions that it's a good thing and stuck in my head. That's not necessarily a good thing. But no, this one's a good one to get stuck in your head. And yeah, Hawksley i'm uh glad you two hooked up and uh is there also a collaboration with and maybe historically you can go back but uh almost prime minister michael andache uh like where's that relationship come from yeah so michael and i met in 2000 and oh geez 2008 or 2009 i think and michael uh saw me perform with the art of time ensemble at the harbor front center i hadn't met him uh we met afterwards uh at at the reception and he said

he said i really enjoyed your performance i'm do you mind if i i'm gonna get in touch with you about something. Okay. And sort of weeks went by, and I think it was actually the morning of my 30th birthday, he called me, and he said he was working on a theater project. He had the idea for a theater project, and my performance and my songs

reminded him of this one character in the play. And the play was an adaptation of one of his novels, Divisadero. It was an adaptation of the first third of the novel. And he put together a team. It was myself and Tom McCammis, a great Stratford actor, Daniel Brooks, an outstanding director, theatre director at the Film Farm. Great film producers were involved.

Leanne Balaban, Amy Rutherford. Put together a great team, and we worked for the next two years on this project. And we performed it at the Theater Pass Mirai, I believe, in 2011, 2012. It's hard to put the dates together. But yeah, and Michael and I are still close, still friends. And what did he do for Be a Man that we're listening to right now?

Well, so the early widows are songs that I wrote for the play. Whether they got used in the play or not, I wrote them all from this character's perspective. That was my job. That was my job. And when you got background vocalists like I hear now, are these just session singers? Yeah, that was Huxley's idea.

He said, I want a choir. I want you to play electric guitar. I want two drummers. Yeah, it works for me. I mean, it's stuck in my head here, but cool. I'm glad you like it. I do, I do. But not as much as I like the album after this next one here.

So, in fact, I don't actually, no disrespect, I didn't actually pull a jam from Valley Heart, but tell me a bit about Valley Heart, which you made in 2013. So, Valley Heart. Oh, but before you go, actually, heart but tell me a bit about uh about valley heart which you made in 2013 so uh so valley heart oh but before you go actually you get another juno nom for uh the early widows yes i did yeah so um the early widows was nominated for a juno as well and that year the junos were in toronto um quite the commute for you yeah um so that was I think that was the year Drake hosted it, which is fun. But that year I got to sing on stage with a group of musicians

because there's a tribute to the band. So we sang The Shape I'm In, and it was myself and City in Color and Sarah Harmer and Serena Ryder, and we all took a verse on it. Wow. Yeah, and Robbie Robertson intro'd us, so there's a clip out there of Robbie Robertson saying my name. I would have much preferred it if Rick Danko said my name. Well, I'll tell you what I can do.

I can't do Rick Danko, of course, but I can get Danko Jones to say your name if that's cool. That'd be sweet. Huge fan, huge fan. Another FOTM for you there in your club when you guys get together for drinks. Yeah. You'll see them there.

Yeah, we should have FOTM alumni. Well, we kind of do, but we'll talk about that later. All right. Another, and it's also, yeah, so this album, Valley Heart, which is the one after the Yearly Widows, you're another Juno nom.

Like, you're dominating this Best Roots traditional solo album category. Yeah. Valley Heart was an interesting album to make. Another quick album. I really wanted to make a very simple, very mellow and spacious album. And I didn't really have much of a plan. I produced it myself and I didn't really have much of a plan. I produced it myself and I didn't really have much

of a plan going into the studio. Again, like I said earlier, I don't use a lot of tricks. You know, this is the song. You know, I didn't do any pre-production for it, which means getting together with the band. You know, I essentially booked the studio. We did it at the Woodshed, the Blue Rodeo space in Toronto. And I booked the space. And, you and you know in my head my songs are simple enough that you know like we can just go into the studio and and i'll play the band the song on acoustic guitar before we record it and then we'll record it and that's the way the song goes you know keep it simple stupid yeah exactly so um we went in and I think we recorded Valley Heart. I usually do, I record a record in eight to 10 days.

So I think we just did it in one stretch of eight days. And that was that. And I mean, the difference between your nomination for Valley Heart and your previous Juno nominations is you actually win this one, right? Like you win. Where is previous Juno nominations is you actually win this one, right? Like, you win. Where is your Juno right now? It's gathering dust on a shelf

at home, but it is in the living room. That's good. You have it on display. You should be proud. Not everyone wins a Juno. No, it was it was, you know, yeah, it was a highlight of my career. But, you know, the other it's funny because, you know,

you get nominated for these things and you look at your category and I'm fans of everyone else in my category. You know, I think Daniel Romano and Donovan Woods and Devin Cuddy and I forget who else was in there, but I'm like, man, I listen to these records when I'm at home, you know. So it's, and they're all pals. So, but yeah, I did win the Juno that year. That was in Winnipeg.

Yeah, that was something else. So that was a late night. September 17 For a girl I know It's Mother's Day Her son is gonna leave Mother's Day Son is gonna leave And that's where he will stay Wind on the weather bay

Teary blue, white, silhouine As fall steps sing a song full of rain For all aboard on on the blue screen His tiny naughty heart I guess it never looked too good Timber tore apart Never looked too good Timber tore apart Then the water gulped the wood

You can hear her whispered prayers For men and masses that always leave Same wind that moves her hair Moves her boy through Fiddler's Green So I'm having a moment over here, Justin. I gotta say, this is probably my very favorite tragically hip song, Fler's green i just love this song and whose voice are we listening to right now that's my friend jen grant singing this song daredevil is a full record of tragically hip covers yeah and it's fantastic man because

it is my favorite band of all time but great job thank you thank you um that i i'd had this idea kicking around for a number of years and some people told me it was a bad idea so didn't gourd tell you that so when i decided to record this record I I wanted to record an album of an entire album tragically hip songs in 2013 and I decided to reach out to the band wanted to reach out to the band to let them know what I was doing and if any of them were strongly against that I would have just shelled it. So I knew Gord just, you know, through various events. And we'd talked in the past and we'd been in touch. And so I just reached out to him and told him,

you know, I'm going to record an album of your songs and just let me know if it's okay with you and I hope you like the idea. And he wrote back and he said, sounds like career suicide to me um but of course uh you know he's always got such a wry sense of humor and um you know the rest of the guys uh rob baker wrote back to me and apparently rob had all my albums and he was a was a fan of my music so he was he was

behind it and uh what's that like when you find out a member of a band like the tragically hip has all of your albums as a fan like what's that like it was strange okay to be honest with you because you know i'm still it's it's strange i i don't think i've ever grown up in that regard i'm still in awe of you know musicians you know i'm okay with musicians i still get starstruck every now and then and meeting those guys and and hearing that from rob i mean i've been you know we've been listening to them since our teens you know since uh up to here was 89 yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Right.

I mean, I got into them around road apples, but still, you know, so it was great to have them on board with it. And we actually recorded Daredevil in five days. We just, we just, I guess that's the benefit of recording covers is you can go in with a bit of a map and people know the songs. And, but yeah it

was a really interesting experience and it was great to take my mind off my own material as well fotm uh andy mays guests on this album too yeah andy sang on it i got a bunch of like brendan canning from broken social scene. Jen Grant. Yeah, Andy. Who else? I can't remember. It's been a while. But Andy, I mean, just again, yesterday when I kicked out the jams of Sammy Cohen, we were playing some Sky Diggers.

And because I had, I want to say famously, but only in this tiny little pocket here, famously said that The Watchmen might be Canada's most underappreciated band. I was talking to someone recently about that. I think I was talking to Craig Lasky, who runs the Horseshoe and Lee's Palace about, because the Watchmen just played, did a night or two at the Horseshoe, and we were talking about what a great band that

is and was and what an extreme melodic, what a cool melodic sense that Danny has. Voice of an extreme, what a cool melodic sense that Danny has. And yeah. Voice of an angel. And he was, I just saw him at the Danforth Music Hall

like in the summer or spring or something like that. But we played Skydiggers and then we had a discussion that maybe Skydiggers are the most underappreciated band because that's a band that, you know, there's a certain level of fame of like I will give you everything

and a penny more and stuff. But if you look at the catalog and go see these guys live at one of their like, you know, Horseshoe Tavern Christmas show or something like that, like I, they don't get, I mean, you don't get the props you deserve. Now that I think about it, what's going on with our Canadian music scene?

How do we fix this? Like, how is it that all you ridiculously talented artists why aren't you pulling up in your bentley here with your driver like what's going on i don't know that's a bigger conversation all right i don't want to stomp all over uh locked in the trunk of a car but uh it's a great album anyways daredevils did this idea come to you? You said it bounced around for a long time, but is there a story about a nautical disaster

at a campfire? Oh, yeah. I got to remind you of your own story. You do. Yeah. I think I used to do nautical disaster around. Yeah, exactly. I think tree planting.

In my early, like when I was 20 years old, there was one acoustic guitar in camp. And, you know, every now and then I'd do, I think it was a segue between like Backstreet Boys, I Want It That Way and Nautical Disaster. Oh, I'd like to hear that mashup. Yeah. And, but, you know, Nautical Disaster is still actually,

it's not on Daredevil, but I do a YouTube, there's a YouTube video of me doing Nautical Disaster is still actually it's not on Daredevil but I do a YouTube, there's a YouTube video of me doing Nautical Disaster which I don't think is very, the video is good but my performance on it is not because I had a cold that day but I do perform it live and it's such an amazing song.

Oh yeah, it's a great song. James Patterson is a listener who had a question for you he wants to know what it was like working with Rob Baker. Well, working with Rob was... I was so nervous. I remember the first time I went over to Rob's house. He is the most gracious and gentle and hospitable guy, him and his wife. So I was living in Prince Edward County at the time,

and I was going to get together with him to play some guitar. And I had to sort of steady myself by getting there to Kingston early. And I think I had to go for a beer or something like that just to settle my nerves. Because it was really, yeah it was i was i was very very nervous but rob is a is a total gentleman and a total professional you know for he really wanted we were doing these shows together last year and um um you know he wanted to rehearse as much as possible because he just wanted to get things right. He wanted to rely, you know, he just wanted to know the songs and material that, you know, as well as possible.

And working with him in the studio, you know, when we went to record passages, he brought like 12 guitars, a few amps, you know, always, just always had ideas, always willing to try everything. And unbelievably hilarious. Next time you're chatting with him, tell him to get his ass down here

into the Toronto Mac basement here. Will do. He's got some great stories for you. I'll bet, I'll bet, I'll bet. Whereas you have to remind me of my stories. Well, hey, as long as I get the stories, I don't care how I get them. But before we get, you mentioned passages. I have a little surprise for you before we, when we talk passages.

But first I want to play just a little something from East. Here, let's play just a little bit of. Looking through the window of a place I can't afford It used to be a dairy and a five and ten cent store Then it became a bar where I could drink till I hit the floor. Now it's a lounge for the pretty folks, I don't drink there anymore. Now in every parking spot around There's a brand new shining car The kind you can sit and relax in

And not care where you are Now the East is referring to your move to Prince Edward County, right? This is the east. Yeah, and also I recorded this album in Nova Scotia. Well, that's even further east than Prince Edward County. Which is it, Justin? Pick a lane. Come on.

What is it? It refers to recording the record out east. Okay, you were being nice to me. Because I had no pet theory. Yeah, it tied in nicely with the move east, which is only two hours east. See, when I'm wrong, you need to say, Mike, that is wrong.

I don't want you. No one's ever wrong. Okay, but at this point, you had moved out of Toronto. You had left the city you were born and raised in for Prince Edward County to hang around with the Bernie Finkelsteins and the Steve Anthonys

of the world. That's right. Yeah, they're out there. Yes, they are. Who else? I need to know

who else is out there. Those are the only two guys I've had on the show who talked about living in Prince Edward County. Oh, yeah. There's a bunch of fancy,

Jamie Kennedy, the chef is out there. Oh, I was going to say, which Jamie Kennedy? Because my buddy, Stu Stone, there's another Jamie Kennedy, you know.

Is there? He's a comic kind of a funny guy who had some great success in the States, but he did a rap song once with Stu Stone, F-O-T-M, Stu Stone. But Jamie Kennedy, the chef. Yeah, he lives out there. He's got a place out there. I don't know. There's a whole bunch of people.

What made you go out there? Chuck Daly from My Mother Earth lives out there. Okay. That's not Chuck D know there's a there's a whole bunch of people what made you go out there chuck daly from my mother earth lives out there okay yeah that's not chuck d that's a different no do you have is chuck d in fotm yes he is chuck d yeah oh yeah yeah chuck yeah this is not a joke chuck d is an apple team he's been on this show really i know you think i'm joking with you but i promise you i'm not i'll link you to the episode. Oh my God. Yeah. He's one of my favorites. Now you have respect for me. I can see it in your eyes now.

That's what it took. You're like Andy Mays, Chris Murphy, Moe Berg, whatever. It's like Tom Wilson, whatever. But it's Chuck D. Now you're in. Now you're involved. That's pretty heavy. That's pretty heavy. Well, I'm a, I mean, tragically, it might be my favorite band, but Public Enemy is right

up there. Like I listened to a lot of Public Enemy in high school, a lot yeah yeah what's where you uh what's your favorite album it takes a nation of millions to hold us back and then fear of a black planet yeah my two the two because those are the two i spent the most time with in my formative years like they never left my walkman those two yes was the start of what's your favorite uh here it is again another def jam but since i gave you all the little something that I knew you lacked so consider me

a new jack I um I mean I have four kids and all four have heard me drop several uh

Chuck D like verses yeah so he's in this house no that's where it's like you know when I told you to tell that story

about going to Leonard Cohen's house and I'm like just don't mention the part he was in there now I had to he was playing at the C&E band shell, Chuck D.

So I actually brought my gear and set up backstage, if you will, and then he came in the room. I tried to get him here. He was too busy to come here. But I was happy to come to him and chat with him. Yeah, we talked a lot about Toronto's hip-hop scene back when, yeah, just the

origins and when he would come up here and play these, like, you know, he talks about playing like Sudbury, for example, you know, Public Enemy played Sudbury. I wish I was at that show. I know, can you imagine? It's just fun to get Chuck D to say Sudbury, like it was kind of cool.

Yeah, I bet. Or Hamilton or whatever. So why did you move back from Prince Edward County? Like, what drew you back? Well, I moved out there. I sold my house in Toronto and just, you know, to be honest with you, at that time I was, you know, doing a lot of drugs and I was drinking a lot.

What kind of drugs are you doing? Doing like heavy drugs, like cocaine. So you and Steve Anthony in Prince Edward County are snorting cocaine? No, I wasn't. He's been sober. That's why I was leaving Toronto. But I also want to remind people,

Steve has actually been clean and sober for a long time now. So you would not have been able to. Because he did a lot of blow. Like he's been very honest about his cocaine problems. But it's actually been a while since. I think a couple of decades maybe, actually. Wow. I did not know that.

You know, I record a podcast for John Gallagher and Peter Gross. Okay, these are a couple of city TV legends. But you're maybe a titch young. But they have a show called Gallagher and Gross Save the World that they do here. And the stories I get from them about their days, you know, their cocaine days. It's just amazing. I almost hate to say this, but it comes across a bit like an infomercial for cocaine. Like I've actually never done cocaine,

but hearing these stories about people doing the coke and everything really makes me want to do it. Like that's not a good thing, right? Well, I don't know. Talk me out of it because I'm totally going to score some coke. No,

the problem with, the problem with it is that it's really fun. So what's the, what's the downside? The downside is the downside. It's really fun so what's the what's the downside the downside is the downside it's coming down it's you can't yeah you can't fun hey you don't want to be that kind of person all the time anyway but when you're on it you're okay tell me like so so you do you still do you still uh what do you snort coke no yeah yeah no i don't do it no i was in toronto that's why i left Toronto. I was just too available to me.

I wanted to make a really drastic decision. So I quit drinking. I quit doing drugs. Drinking was the gateway to my drug habit. So I just quit drinking, which was quite tough. Oh, you're like Rob Ford. It was in one of his drunken stupors. Oh, totally.

Yes, it was. Okay. But in, yes, yes, it was. Okay. But yeah, so I left Toronto just to sober up and to start a new life. I didn't really know many people in the county. I had a few friends. Bought a place on the lake that I could fix up. Wow. Yeah, because back then in Prince Edward County, property was cheap.

So I bought a place on a lake that I could fix up and just occupy myself with that. And, but then shortly after that, I met the woman who would become my wife. And so after two years of living out there, I moved back to be with her because her work kept her in Toronto. And we still have a place out there, a different place. We sold that place and got another one. But, you know, I moved back because be with her because her work kept her in Toronto and we still have a place out there

a different place we sold that place and got another one but um you know I moved back because you know I'm in love with this woman and I think we're gonna get married and now we have a six month old and look at that and you're not doing coke no and you've got a healthy six month old and you're you're in love indeed just making sure yeah i can see it in your eyes you are for the record and uh i'm happy to hear all this it's uh good and you do not recommend cocaine no it's a very temporary solution and then it and i've never done it but i'm assuming that you do it and to get that high you have to you have to do more to get like it's one of those only one thing that cocaine leads to. It's more cocaine.

You know, it's just, it's, yeah. Is it expensive? It's expensive, too. I mean, if it's a habit, it's, you know, it's, depending on how much you like it and what your tolerance is, it can be a very, you know, hundreds of dollars a week for sure. And, in fact, you revealed, I think it was on the podcast. I got confused between before the podcast and during the podcast but you've quit you've quit smoking yeah yeah so luckily i've smoking for 23 years and it's almost just within the last year that's expensive too yeah it's like 20 bucks

it's 15 20 bucks a day i do a pack a day at least so i loved it and now i don't really think about it anymore i vape just to like take the edge off and which i think is a lot better than inhaling carcinogens and tar and cyanide and all that stuff i always because i have teenagers i'm like okay i always i tell them to do nothing but i'm like my thoughts are this like if you're coming from cigarettes and if you come to cigarettes to vaping that's a good move yeah if you're starting with vaping like just don't start with just don't start anything yeah it's like one of those things to vaping, that's a good move. Yeah. If you're starting with vaping, like just don't start with, just don't start anything.

Yeah. It's like one of those things where vaping is not good for you. Yeah. But it's far better than smoking cigarettes. Yeah. And if it's like, I used it as a, well,

I did Champix and then I, then I used vaping as a cessation device because I still really like, you know, as, as a smoker for, you know, more than half my life, you know,

if we're out for, if you and I are out for dinner, I, you know as as a smoker for you know more than half my life you know if we're out for if you and i are out for dinner i you know i i do enjoy there's still the habit of getting up from the table going outside to have a cigarette that i gotta shake so now i get up from the table go outside and have a few puffs of my vape come back gotcha okay cool we're we're we're improving your lifestyle here justin you're getting healthier right before our eyes. Now, Passages, the 2019 release. We had already talked about Rob Baker, but he plays on most of these songs, right? Yeah, he did all the sessions with us,

the bed recordings, yeah. There's a song on this album that listeners of Toronto Mic'd have heard pretty recently. Somebody came over, believe it or not, sat where you're sitting now, and announced his top 100 songs of 2019.

Then this gentleman, see this big reveal, pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. Then this gentleman, we played his top 10 songs of all time. I'm going to let this guy introduce his favorite song of 2019.

So the next voice belongs to the mystery guest you can cut the anticipation with a knife here we are number one yes it's not easy making these lists and really the order very often doesn't matter i like to think that I've got the best 100 I could find, but whether number 50 should be number 40 or number 60 really doesn't matter, though I guess number one should matter. I didn't have a lot of difficulty with number one this year, and I'll tell you why. It is sung by a guy I consider a dear friend, probably the closest friend I have in the music business. It was a special year for him because of this record but

more so because he is a proud new papa. He earlier today received a nomination, congratulations, in the category of Songwriter of the Year for the Canadian Music Awards, Canadian Folk Music Awards, that is. Might as well be the Canadian Music Awards as far as I'm concerned, but he's in the folk category, and I'm not going to argue with that. All I'm going to do is say I hope he wins. This song, I think, of all the songs, and he's been around a while, showcases him at his very best.

It's a wonderful song. The arrangement is great. The record is great. The album is called Passages. The song is called Good Man, and it is sung by my good friend Justin Rutledge. ¶¶ Stop and rest a while as the morning light arrives You can sleep in late on the bed where the dreamer dies

Where the fire's low and the street doesn't make a sound. Stop and rest a while cause they can't keep a good man down. They can't keep a good man down. Keep the good man down Have you ever heard that Dave Hodge proclamation before? No. No, I haven't. That's, I feel extremely, that's very sweet of him to say. Yeah.

I have more Dave Hodge him to say. Yeah. I have more Dave Hodge questions for you. Okay. Well, Dave is a great FOTM. I actually, I put into the Toronto Mic podcast feed, the reporters got together for a show at the Paradise. I was there, yeah.

Oh, I was there too. See, we probably didn't know each other to recognize each other or whatever. But, and so that's part of the Toronto Mic each other or whatever, but, uh, and so that's, that's part of the Toronto Mike feed. And thank you, Dave,

for that. And, you know, he comes over every December and unveils his top 100 of the year. And we play the top 10. And he's previously talked about you because, uh, you,

you played his daughter's wedding. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, several years ago now I played a song called come summertime at her wedding. So how did you like, tell me how you met Dave? Um, through Jim Cuddy. Um, I was opening for Jim Cuddy, um, in 2006, I believe, or was it Kathleen Edwards? It was one of the two. And, um, Dave is a huge Kathleen Edwards fan.

And his wife was a big fan of mine. So we met because of that. And then since then, we've just sort of gravitated towards one another. It's been a really cool relationship. We go to see baseball games together. We'll go to see concerts together. Went to the National in Massey Hall. We'll go see Jason Isabel.

We have similar taste in music and sports. I'm not to be honest with you. I'll be totally frank. I don't know much about sports. Dave is an encyclopedic knowledge. Although he'd much rather talk about music than sports. And that's the thing. We get together and talk about music. And I try to, you know, we'll go see a baseball game.

He's amazing, though. You'll sit there with him and go, this guy's going to hit home run. Swing and a miss. And then next one, boom, over the moon. Swing and a miss. And then next one, boom, over the moon. But so I don't know. Yeah, to be considered one of his, you know, I consider him one of my dear friends.

And just a solid, solid guy. Him and his wife, Sharon, are just, they're such amazing people. I find it's such a small world, you know. Like there's a guy you like because he's a sports reporter that you uh you look up to and listen to and you know and you and i'm a well i'm older than you but i'm still a little young to remember dave hodge on hockey night in canada like this ends in like the mid 80s or whatever so like you you and i are like we know ron mclean and that's all we know from that gig or whatever. But you know him on TSN and the reporters, et cetera, et cetera.

And you know the legend of the pen flip and stuff. And then you're lucky enough to get him on your show and he's fantastic and he comes back and he's fantastic again when he kicks up. And then he wants to come back every December. And then you find out like you start to learn things about him, for example, that like you're his top, you're his favorite. him for example that uh like you're his top you're his favorite and of course i already know that you uh are an old high school bud of my brother so it's like it's like and it's just sort of like a tiny little village yeah forget this big metropolis we live in like it's true you know as you it's just everything sort of circles around the good things circle back you should write a song about that yeah okay so tell me about that what's uh so

by the way that jam is really great that that good man is it's a very cool cool song and worthy of being dave hodge's favorite song of 2019 and passages now 2019 so what's the future hold like what's coming up next for you you got any tour dates you want to well i um next month i'm going back into the studio and i'm actually going to record a best of, um, cause you know, it passes. Sell out.

You're already taking my advice to sell out. I'm doing it. I'm doing it really, really simply. Um, because you know, after eight albums, I don't want to do a compilation of,

of songs. Um, because you know, I mean, everyone's got Spotify and they can do that on their own. Uh, but what I'm going to do is record acoustic versions of, Because, you know, I mean, everyone's got Spotify and they can do that on their own. But what I'm going to do is record acoustic versions of specific songs over the course of my career. So I'm going to go in and maybe with one or two other instruments

and do it that way. So release that maybe in the fall. And then I've been writing for my next record. So I'm going to probably record that in early 2021. Okay. And so there's no plans to go like all all uh ed sheeran or whatever like just go for it man like he could be like a sean mendez uh ed sheeran type poppier uh more packageable you know you could sell out yeah i i'm maybe that'll be my you don't you can do it uh remember garth brooks right like he wanted

to do something different he was chris gaines now that's a bad example because it was a huge flaw but you could sort of create a new persona and uh you know i'll talk to my wife about that like a city in color thing right who's this rocker this hard hard ear bleeding rocker to be going doing that beautiful acoustic song like you know you have to you have to do a, oh, that's city and color. That's not Dallas. Green. Like, you got to have a persona. Yeah.

Dude, did you have a good time? I had a wonderful time. Thank you so much for, are you playing Rosie and Gray? I closed every episode of this podcast series with Rosie and Gray from my, one of my favorite albums of all time, Shakespeare My Butt. One of the great, great songs of our time. Dude, I like you already. Move over, Dave Hodge.

He's mine. Yeah, you're preaching to the choir on that one. There was a Toronto Mike. These are called TMLXs, these Toronto Mike listener events. And the third one on the patio of Great Lakes Brewery was headlined by Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols. Wow. Lowest and low. Maybe I'll be invited to one of these years.

Well, that's what we're going to talk about. And then in this song, of course, there's I Want to Take a Streetcar Downtown, meet Henry Miller, wander around, drink some Guinness from a tin, right? They changed it to I Want to Take a Streetcar Downtown, listen to Toronto Mike and wander around, drink some Guinness from a tin, right? They changed it to, I want to take a streetcar downtown, listen to Toronto Mike and wander around, drink some great lakes from a tin. None of this Guinness bullshit.

And it was beautiful, man. It was fantastic. Amazing. Amazing. He's a good guy, Ron. He's a good guy.

You're a good guy. This was amazing. And I really appreciate you taking the time to visit me today, Justin. Thank you for having me. And that brings us to the end of our 568th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

Justin, what the hell is your Twitter handle exactly? I don't know. I never tweet. Justin J. Rutledge, maybe? Justin J. Rutledge. How come you don't tweet? You're too busy to tweet. I have nothing to say.

Okay. Say it all in my music. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at keitnergroup.com That's K-E-I-T-N-E-R group.com

And Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk with a C. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone. Rome Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RomePhone.ca to get started.