Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Kaitlyn McGrath: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1920

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

On this 1920th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Kaitlyn McGrath about her years covering the Toronto Blue Jays for The Athletic, why she left that job after the 2024 season, and why she decided to return to journalism a year later.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, I'm Caitlin McGrath. I'm a Toronto-based sports writer and feature writer, and I'm very excited today to be making my debut on Toronto Mike. Welcome to episode 1,920. That's 1920 of Toronto Mic'd, an award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great LakesBeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christie Pits this summer. No ticket required. Corpso, Nick Aienis. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline. And Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle MyElectronics.ca.comitting to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

And Ridley Funeral Home, Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making her Toronto mic to debut, it is indeed Caitlin McGrath. Hello, Caitlin. Hello. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Thank you for having me. I have, I must have reached out in the past.

Can you, is it possible over the past decade at some point? I don't know. I slid into your DMs or something and invited you over. It's possible. I don't remember. I think I would have answered. Okay. Maybe our schedules didn't align.

You know what? Maybe who knows what happened. But I'm so glad that you're here now. I know. I've been eagerly awaiting this invite. Is that right? Now I feel terrible because of course I'd love to have Caitlin McGrath on the program. Are you kidding me?

Any relation to, this is the question I've wondered since I first read your name. Any relation to Mr. McGrath, who was my high school gym teacher at Michael Power High School? I don't think so. No, there's no gym teachers in your lineage thing. No, my mom was a teacher, but my dad's side is the McGrath. Okay, because this gym teacher I had in high school, Mr. McGrath, and I don't even know his first name. Like, who knew the first name of teachers? Like that was always a mystery, right?

Yeah, it's true. I feel like my perspective was different because I had a mom that was a teacher. So, like, you know, when you have a parent that is a teacher, you know that teachers are real people. Well, I'm going to blow your mind. You ready? My mom is also a teacher. Oh, there you go. So much in common.

Okay. But this high school teacher, Mr. McGrath, he once told a story. And now we just all believed everything we were told by teachers. Like, you just believed it. Like, I didn't even have critical thinking ability to, like, consider. am I being, you know, it's this a real story. But this Mr. McGrath, who was a gym teacher at my high school, he told the story about trying out for the Boston Celtics.

Like this is a story. And I don't know. He didn't, like he never played in the NBA. But the story he would tell his tryout of the Boston Celtics, yeah, like I just, I believed it to be true until this moment. Now I'm questioning it. So if anyone knows Mr. McGrath, who was a gym teacher at Michael Power High School, in like the early 90s,

let me know because I have questions, right? I don't think he'd have a reason to lie. But that's amazing. Like, I don't know. The NBA teams, do they just let, like, any... Like, you can't just try out, right? Yeah, that's true. I mean, maybe it would have been a slightly different times,

but certainly wouldn't be the way now, but... That's the other thing, Caitlin, is that, like, whatever age you were when I was in high school, and as you can see, by looking at me, I am far removed from high school. But, like, you're frozen that age. So as I picture this man right now, I picture the way he looked in 1993. Right, right.

You know, who knows if he's even still with us now? Like, that's a long. So anyway, that was the story. This, he was a good teacher. Like, I enjoyed Mr. McGrath. He had a good sense of humor, good teacher. You're not related to him. No.

You didn't know you came over for 60 to 90 minutes on Mr. McGrath, my gym teacher. I know Mr. McGrath is my dad. That's right. You're surrounded by Mr. McGrath. Exactly. You're my brother. Your episode 1920. So Jeremy Hopkins had an idea that, like, for these numbers,

I should be given some, I don't know, a fun fact about that calendar year. So I just want to tell you, Caitlin, about the year 1920. Just one fun fact. You ready? Yep. The first airplane to fly across Canada arrived in Richmond, B.C., from Halifax, Nova Scotia in 1920.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. Like that was the first time a plane flew across this country. Yeah, that's amazing. I still think about how amazing plane travel is, flight is. Like, I would have this, I would think about it a lot, especially when I was like traveling for work. And I would wake up in the morning in like California.

And then by the evening, I'm sleeping in my own bed, which is kind of incredible. You know, I feel like I'm going to break into a Louis C. K. bit here now or something. Like how quickly we, take this magic for granted. Because you're right. Like you literally like you wake up in California and you get in a seat and then when you get out of that seat or you know when you get out of that the the airplane, you are now in Toronto. Like that is kind of amazing. Yeah. We do take it for granted, right? I know. It's crazy. Like I, I mean, anywhere you go, no matter how far and even how

close. Like it is, it's also even incredible to wake up in my, wake up in my, wake up in. in my Toronto bedroom, leave for the airport at like 8 a.m. And by like, I don't know, noon, I'm in New York. That's kind of crazy too. You're blowing my mind right now. I know. I know. We're just getting started here.

So thank you to the calendar year 1920. And here we are in 2026 and Caitlin McGrath. You're now checking my watch. You've now put in enough time on your Toronto Mike debut. You're now an FOTM. That means friend of Toronto Mike. Oh, amazing. Dream come true.

That's another check mark on your bucket list. Yeah. Can I invite you? And am I right? I'm going to sound like I did some like sneaky research, but you put this on LinkedIn, so I don't think this is that sneaky. But are you getting married? Yes.

When are you getting married? November. Okay. So you have a fiancé. Yes. This fiance and you, I want to invite you both. This is what I want to do. I want to invite you to my little event on, well, it's next Thursday.

It's June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. at Great Lakes Brewery. here in southern Atobico because your first beer is on the house and Palma Pasta is going to feed you. Oh, amazing. Like, I don't want to, don't tell me if I get too personal, but how did you meet this fiance? We actually met at a wedding. How long ago? I'm really digging in for the details.

Let me think. We met in 2023, I think. Yeah. We met in the summer of 2023. Okay. And did you fall in love quickly or like how, like, was it love at first sight? Did it have to like as a slow brew? It was fairly quick. I mean, we met, we had mutual friends. I actually went to university with his brother, and so I had known his brother for years. And then at this wedding, I met him.

He had, he had been studying in Australia to get his master's. So he's a smart guy. Yeah, well, he's smart enough to marry you. Yeah, exactly. smart man um so yeah so we met um and you know just chatted a little bit and i think it was like maybe a month maybe a month and a half after a meeting that we went on our first date and then we we were dating ever since then like we once we kind of went on the first couple of dates it was sort of solidly forward now let me ask you this in the year 2026 will you keep your name

kately mcgrath or will you change it to his surname Yeah, I think I'll keep it for sure just because being a writer, your name sort of is out there a lot. It's like your brand. My name, yeah, I was going to say that. My name is kind of my brand. I suppose, like, personally, I could change it and just keep kind of my byline as Caitlin McGrath. But honestly, like, with the extra paperwork and all the stuff that you would have to do. I think you can assume it, though.

No, I only know this from being married twice, okay? So I believe you can like assume. And this is all very, like, sexist in nature. Like it goes back to some olden days where, you know, no one ever talks about the man taking, he could become Mr. McGrath, right? He could. Like, he could be Mr. McGrath. Yeah, he could.

He's not a gym teacher. He's a physiotherapist, so it's kind of related. That is kind of related. But like you can, I don't think there's much paperwork. Like, I feel like. Maybe not. You assume it. And then, I don't know.

But I don't know. But I would probably have to get like my license change. And like passport. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work. Yeah, I think that, I think nowadays it's, you know, it's everyone's choice, whatever they want to do. But it's far more common for women to just kind of keep their name. And I think as people also get married older and older, it's a little bit harder to, like, you know, you've been in the workforce for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years by the time you're getting married. It's like, like, everybody knows me as this now.

Yeah, yeah. And especially if you're a journalist like yourself, we're going to dive into all of this. But absolutely, you can't just become Caitlin Smith or whatever the heck this guy's name is. Like you're Caitlin McGrath. That's the brand. That's what we're looking for here. Yeah. I know couples that combine the last names.

Have you seen that before? Like, and then you have kids like Ryan Nugent Hopkins. No, no. But like I actually have. Oh, you merge them. They merge them and create a new name. Oh my goodness. I don't know anyone who's done that.

But that's, okay, that's interesting. Yeah. Okay. I don't, you don't have to tell me his name, but what, does he have a last name that would go well with Ms. McGrath? Um, you can tell his name. I don't know how,

how private you are, but, I don't know. I think he's out there. His last name's Henler. Henler, okay. So, I think McNames are sort of,

it's kind of, they almost stand alone in some ways. Like, I think that they, because they already have like, two, uh, two capital letters within the name.

It feels like there's just a lot going on. So I would feel like a McGrath-Henler feels a bit clunky to me. I don't think I would do that. You know, you could be Caitlin McGee. Yeah, I could. Okay, I'm giving you some ideas here. Okay, so when you met his brother in university, what university was this? I went to Western.

Western. That's a party university. Yeah, yeah. You have a good time? Western Mustangs. Okay, yeah. Ghostangs. Sure. I went to UFT because, like, I didn't even.

consider I could leave the city. Like I didn't even have this idea. Like, oh, I could go live somewhere else and go to school. This thought never entered my head. But it sounds like you'd have a good time at Western. Are you a Toronto girl? Yeah, I grew up in Toronto. Okay. Cool. What high school did you go to? I went to an all-girls Catholic

High School, Notre Dame. It's in the East End, like, Upper Beaches area. Okay, look at you. Fancy pants. Okay. So a bunch of questions came in when I said that Caitlin McGrath was finally making her Toronto my debut and one relates to something that's happening in almost exactly four hours. Do you, Caitlin McGrath, know what's happening in almost, well, it's a little less than four hours

right now? Based on your shirt you're wearing, I think it's the team Canada game. So Ruth wrote in and wants to know if you'll watch the Canada game with her. I watched the first Canada game with Ruth. We went out to a bar on Bloor. Okay, tell me what bar and talk. I see Ruth all the time at Toronto Maple Leafs. baseball games. Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Now I'm blanking on the name. Blue and what? Blue and Christy.

Right by Christy Pitts? Yeah. I don't know what bar you're talking about. Tallboys, maybe. Okay. Okay. So this is Ruth Capolis. Or are you talking about different Ruth? No. Okay, Ruth Capolis. Yes. So okay, I'll make sure, I know, I don't make sure we're talking about the right of Ruth here. So because she, she jumped on the mic when I recorded live from Christy Pitts once. So she's also an FOTM and I do see her at the members lounge at the Christy Pit. for the Leafs game. This book here is going home with you, Caitlin. It's the history of Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball.

Thank you. So where are we going to be watching the game tonight? I don't know because Kevin, my fiancé. Okay. Kevin, now I got a first name and a last name. Yeah, and now you can search him up. He's working until around 6.30. He won't be home.

So we probably might end up just watching today's game at home because he's going to be coming in in the middle of it. So this is, I think, I think. think I say this a lot now, but this is the most significant soccer match in the history of this country. Are you a big soccer guy? I'm a big, like, my son is a big, my thirdborn, my second, my youngest son is a huge soccer fanatic. And I'm into like the Euros and the World Cup. And if TFC has a playoff match, like that's when I come alive.

So I'm into this tournament. Yeah, that's fair. I think that that is probably where I'm at too. I have to say that I wasn't buzzing necessarily about the World Cup ahead of when it got here. I think maybe I had some reservations just as somebody lives in downtown Toronto. Like, how's this going to, how's the city going to respond to it? But I've been pleasantly surprised. I think it's been really fun.

And I went out, as I said, to watch the first game at a bar. And it's always surprising to me, like how much I get into sports. because most of the time that I spend around sports, I'm there as a journalist. And so I'm objective and I have like kind of my own goals. I don't necessarily care about the outcome. Well, you're not allowed to cheer in the press box. No, exactly.

That's the number one rule. But I'm usually just more concerned with my storyline and what I'm writing. I very rarely care about the result. But when it comes to national sports and something like the World Cup, which I'm not involved with, I'm not covering it in any way. And so I can kind of just lean into it. I get this way with the Olympics too a lot. Well, yeah, you can be a fan.

Yeah. And, yeah, like we said with national teams, like they're representing your country and you're, I'm assuming you're a proud Canadian. Of course. Just making sure. Get out of my basement, Caitlin. How dare you. Okay.

So I'm happy that you get to enjoy sport for what makes sport great. You have a rooting interest. It's high stakes. If we get the three points against Qatar tonight, we have an excellent chance of advancing to the knockout round. Canada has never won a World Cup match ever. Yeah. We just got our first draw, which was exciting.

Yeah. So, and Alfonso Davies is apparently available to play tonight. Right. I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited. I'll join you and your Kevin and Ruth. The four of us are getting together for this game. Disco Steve wrote in, this is when we were like, I almost said, like, flirting on blue sky.

Like, get Caitlin in the basement. Disco Steve wrote, my favorite Jay's writer when she was with The Athletic. I hope this gets in the calendar ASAP. So Disco, Steve, I think we put in the calendar later that day. We did this for Disco, Steve. Thank you. So obviously I want to get you to the Athletic. So you went to Western.

So maybe help me understand, did you study journalism? Like, how do you go from Western? You graduated? Yes. Show me your paper. Western graduate to the gig at the athletic. Like walk me through that journey. Yeah, I went to Western for my undergrad, which was in English.

And then I stayed at Western and did my master's there, which was in journalism. When I was in my undergrad at Western, I also worked at the campus newspaper, which, you know, student journalism was kind of how I got my first taste of journalism and how I figured out that that was something that I wanted to pursue. So, you know, I always think that, yes, I got my journalism master's degree from Western, but I certainly earned kind of a lot of the practical knowledge from just working at the campus newspaper. So I did that. What's the name of the Western Campus newspaper? The Western Gazette. What a great name.

I know. So you're cutting your teeth, writing for the Gazette. Yeah, and at the time it was unique because we were the only student newspaper that printed every day. or reprinted Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays. So we didn't, it was four days a week, I guess, because we didn't, we didn't print on, we didn't work on the Friday to print on the Saturday in anyway.

But we were unique in that most student newspapers at universities were like a once a week sort of deal, maybe twice a week. But we were, we said every day, but I guess it was more like four times a week. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, you started by telling me this, this brag about we publish every day and then it quickly devolved into four days a week. I know.

Caitlin, I'm here to tell you this. seven days in a week. That's kind of like how you imagine university, though. I feel like everybody, uh, everybody plans are scheduled to have like a Monday or Friday off. So I feel like university is like four days a week. We were just modeling it after that. Absolutely. Okay. So what, what are you writing about for the Gazette? Um, yeah, like it was, I, I think I started out, honestly, writing sports, um, mostly. And then I, there's sort of a, um, a process you go through there where you kind of start out as a volunteer slash just volunteer writer. So you kind of go in, when you have time.

And then if you're really into it, then you can pursue becoming an editor. So that's what I did in my second year at Western. So then I became a sports editor. Then the following year, I was the opinions editor. So I ran the opinion section. And then the last two years where I was there,

my last year, my undergrad, and then my year of my master's where I still worked there, I was more of kind of like, I think it was like associate editor. It was kind of like a features editor sort of thing. Okay. So you graduate.

from Western and it sounds like you got a master's smart people do that and a master's in journalism though I still don't know what do I know I did so you got the major in English yeah I majored in double major Caitlin English in history

going back into the late 90s now it's all about the 90s on Toronto Mike but you know what do you do of that right like I just feel like I just had evidence that I learned how to learn yeah and that can be helpful that can take you critical thinking is such a value even though I didn't have it I didn't have it back in the day to realize like that but you develop critical thinking capabilities and I do feel and again I'm not going to pick on the young I don't want to be Abe Simpson yelling at the clouds but I feel like this is an art we need to we need to teach critical thinking to our youth critical thinking and I just think basic writing skills are really important I teach journalism as well now Where do you teach? At the College of Sports Media.

Oh, yeah. And a lot of the students that go there, understandably so, are a little bit more interested in broadcast journalism. And the school's really good at developing those skills, video, radio, podcasting, all that kind of stuff. But I teach a writing course. And I usually try to appeal to them, especially the ones that are more interested in, you know, camera work and things like that, is like, look, I understand writing's not maybe

going to be your number one priority and it's not something you're pursuing. But if you can write a really great email, or a really great cover letter or, you know, even a really great text, that might be the deciding factor for you getting an on-camera job. So I know that maybe writing is not something that you want to do full-time is work, but being able to be, being able to communicate clearly and really, you know, sell yourself through your writing can really help you in all aspects.

You're preaching to the choir here, Caitlin. Do you worry that, you know, younger people are reliant on AI to compose these emails, these texts. I do worry about that. You know, it's something that, I mean, it's not just young people. I mean, a lot of people. I'm picking on the young people because I'm Abe Simpson over here. But no, you're right.

In fact, I'd say the worst offenders are not the young people. But you're right. It's all across the board. Yeah. Yeah. And the AI stuff, I, you know, obviously I have a stake in it because I make my living as a writer. So that is my skill to sell to people.

And so when I see people outsourcing their thinking skills and outsourcing their writing skills, it's not something I love to see. And their brains are turning to mush, Caitlin. Like I'm witnessing in real time with a number of people, the more reliant people become on AI. It does seem like their ability to actually, you know, critically think and create is diminished. Yeah. Yeah. It's like anything else. if you don't use the muscle, like it just goes soft.

Oh, 100%. And so, I mean, even myself when I was like, like, writing less, like I felt like I was still able to do it, but it is something that you have to practice. Like, you know, as a beat writer, my first couple years on the beat, I would tell you that like, some of the stuff, I mean, some of the stuff I'd look back at now and be like,

oh, man, but like as you start, if you write every single day, you just, you keep improving and it, yeah, it becomes almost muscle memory in some ways where you can just do it really quickly and it it becomes a lot easier. So it is something you have to work at and practice at, which... Oh my God. You put in your reps and you get better. Do you think I was an award-winning podcaster back in 2012, Caitlin? Okay. Exactly. That didn't happen. Practice makes perfect. But that's why it's intimidating for people. It's like some people will want that instant satisfaction, that instant gratification. And that's what AI does for you because it writes the email for you and

you feel like, oh, that was easy and it's what I wanted to say. And, um, um, And yeah, so you don't have to work at it. But I think people can tell when it's AI. And the more and more people that use it, the more and more everyone's going to start sounding the same and then it's become obvious that people are using it. And I hope there's more like people like you and I who are craving an authentic voice.

Like I personally crave authenticity and partly because there's so much a manufactured algorithm voices out there that authenticity suddenly is a rare, a rare commodity. Yeah, exactly. My goodness. Okay, so we have you getting a master's at Western University, or is it the University of Western Ontario? What's the proper name now? I don't know. I don't know. I think that on the degrees, it still says formally the University of Western Ontario, but I think more casually they want to be known as Western University. It's sort of like... What's on the hoodies? That's all that matters. I think it might be both. Actually, they were changing the name when I was there, and I remember it was kind of confusing. It sort of was like that almost that American... kind of style of the university name. But I don't know. I think people just call it Western.

Western, okay, you get a master's at Western. So what happens between getting that master's and getting the job at the athletic? Yeah, so like from school, I got an internship at CBC actually. So I worked my first summer out of school at CBC doing various different roles at the Toronto headquarters of it.

And then I also did a little bit of time. time at the Ottawa local. So not the, not the parliamentary side of their reporting, but more their local. Sure. And then I came back to Toronto and I got a job at the National Post Sports, which was like, I guess my first like official

full-time job in journalism that was not an internship. And so I worked at the National Post for about a little over a year. That's where I made connections with people like Eric Corrine, who's also an FOTM. Yeah. And Sean Fitzgerald. Gerald. Who's also an FOTM?

John Lott. I don't know if you ever had it. You know what? I asked him, he politely declined. Yeah, he was kind of private. So, but anyway, so I mean, I worked with all of them there. And then we were laid off. Actually, I think Sean had previously just left.

He'd got another job. And then, like, shortly thereafter, a bunch of us. Yeah, you all got it like at once. I remember that day. Yeah. It was, I think it was 2016. And so after that, I sort of bounced around a little bit, just doing like freelance and kind of odd contract jobs. And then towards the end of that year, I think, I can't remember who first reached out to me.

It might have been John. It might have been Eric. I don't remember who it was. But in any case, both of them had been approached by a guy named Adam at the time. And he had, he was starting. The mysterious Adam has entered the chat. This new website called The Athletic, or they had launched in. Chicago and they were aiming for Toronto to be their second city, you know, at the time.

And it's funny you use that term because we are second city to Chicago. Second city, that's where it comes from, SCTV. I didn't know that. Yeah, listen. There you go. I don't know if that was informing them, but it certainly worked out that way. It was mirroring that earlier. And so, yeah, so they had been approached and I guess they were also looking for someone to come

on and help with editing and kind of back end stuff. And, you know, my first job at the National Post was as, I think my role was like web producer or something like that. It was essentially like a night editing job. I worked, it was again, I was like in my 20s, so I was, you're not going to get the best shifts and stuff like that. So I worked evenings and nights and weekends. And I was there to manage the website at night. And I'd also help a little bit with like putting the paper together. and I didn't do a ton of writing. My editor at the time was really great about getting me little opportunities to write when I could. But my primary job was editing and things like that.

And so then when I went to the athletic, that was what I did at first. So I spent a lot of time, you know, editing stories, building the website, writing headlines, posting photos, doing social media. Like, we also were doing a lot of in-person events back then at the athletic. So helping plan those in-person events and panel discussions and things like that. So it was very startup-y. It's crazy to think about now because it's owned by the New York Times. And it changed a lot from the time that I started there to the time that I left. But it was at the start, it was very much like a startup.

Like, you know, we didn't have, we didn't have like formal systems in place, I guess. Like it was sort of like we all. Processes. Yeah, we didn't have like set schedules. We didn't have, yeah, set processes and things like that. We all just kind of worked when we needed to and worked really hard together and things like that. So that was, yeah, that's kind of how I went from journalism school to the athletic. So it was all pretty much in a span of what, like three years or three years or so.

I remember when, of course I remember when the athletic launched and I was very interested at a front row seat. And I did have over very early in the Toronto run of the athletic. You mentioned Sean Fitzgerald, who always. called this place you're in right now, mimico, because he knew it bothered me, because you're not a mimico, okay, Caitlin. So Sean Fitzgerald, who is very funny, and I'm sure he still is very funny,

would always hammer that home because he knew I would be irked by it, but he was accompanied by James Myrtle. Of course, yeah. James Myrtle and Sean Fitzgerald, and we talked about this new upstart, and you mentioned John Lott, I remember, and Eric Corrine,

these were kind of core people at the athletic. So, you know, you were there a long time, And so how do you become the Blue Jays writer? Yeah, it was kind of a story of just being in the right place, the right time, I suppose. So like I said, I'd worked there for a couple years at that point. Probably it was almost two years. At that point, doing kind of the editing side of things.

And again, at the athletic, they were good about giving me opportunities to write if I could find the good stories and things like that. And so then as the athletic was expanding from, Toronto to then Athletic Canada, essentially. And they were hiring people in all the different Canadian cities because they were going to expand their coverage of the NHL. And so somebody that was working for us covering the Blue Jays, his name was Iziofair.

And he was originally from Vancouver. So when the athletic decided that they were going to expand, he really wanted to move back home. Because, you know, Toronto wasn't his home. Vancouver was home for him. So he kind of jumped at the opportunity to go work in Vancouver in a role there. And then John was still working as the baseball writer in Toronto, the Blue Jays writer. And so I sort of was like, oh, can I like help out on Jays because Israel's leaving and John doesn't want to do it on his own.

And they were like, yeah, sure, like you can help out. So I didn't like, it's not like I applied for that job in any way. And I didn't even necessarily like, I don't even remember if it was like formerly like formerly. like you are now the second beat writer. It was sort of like, just go help out John and see how it goes. And like I didn't do spring training my first year. I just started covering them like in April. And so it wasn't, yeah, like it wasn't a totally formal process.

Is this 2018? Yeah, it was 2018. So then just in that, I guess that April I started going down to games and started covering them. And I think that I was a big help for John having a second person there. And so I just kept doing it. And then eventually by the end. to that season, I think they were sort of like, they liked how it worked out and they were able to hire other editors because they were expanding anyway. So they brought on more editors that they didn't

really need me like in that desk roll anymore. And I kind of solved the problem of having to find somebody to help with J's because I was already there and I'd done it for a year and I'd kind of established some good relationships already. So yeah, like it was definitely not like a form of process. And that's like the other thing that I was like sort of lucky about the way that the athletic was when I first started there. Because I think now like there there's a lot more formal process that would happen if there was a vacancy in that way. But because we again, like didn't have all the like formal processes to go through, I was sort of able to just kind of sneak in there and then like stay. Good for you. Yeah. So it's um it's not the traditional route. But

I've done some stuff in my journalism career that's like very traditional. Like I I've done the internships and applied for jobs and all that kind of stuff. And then I've had some few opportunities that have sort of just like fallen into my lap. And it's, it's probably not the way that I would recommend necessarily going about it. But it was the way that it was, it worked for me. Well, you were in the right place at the right time. Exactly.

And you were the beat writer for the, you were the athletic beat writer covering the Toronto Blue Jays from 2018 through 2024. Yes. Okay. So a couple of questions. One just came in on the live stream. So hello to Rob Delmundo, who is at live.totronomike.com, kind of catching this live. And here's what Rob writes.

So again, I just got this. I haven't even screened it. Okay. I hope. Uh-oh. You know, I'm going to read it cold here. Ready? Yes.

If you can fit it in, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, more of a comment than a question. I enjoyed Caitlin's piece written in 2020 regarding Blue Jays references in movies and pop culture. Since then, there was the... the 2024 movie Trapp. Josh Hartnett was in it, directed by M. Knight Shai... Shaman.

I never said his name. Shalamalan. Thank you. I struggle with very, very easy words to pronounce. That was filmed at Skydome. That makes a great addition to her list.

Was always good to see her at the athletics puck talks events in women's hockey media scrums. So that's a comment. Not a question. There's no comment in there. Question.

But the, so, that I always enjoy it too, when sports and pop culture collide. Yes. That was in 2020 when sports was shut down. And we had to still produce content for the website. And so I think I had this idea. I don't know where I even came from, honestly. I guess it was just one of those ideas where it was like,

well, I have the time to do it now. So I essentially was looking for every reference to the Toronto Blue Jays and pop culture that I could find. And there was like famous ones out there. There was like, in... Big Daddy. Yes, Big Daddy was one. That's the most famous one I think of. There's a, in Home Alone, there's a baseball card that's a Blue Jays.

Do you know who is on that card? I think it's George Bell. You know what? I have my 1986 Shoppers Drug Mark calendar stuck on May because that was George Bell's month. Oh, okay. Amazing. There you go. Show to George Bell.

And so there was just, there was other ones I knew about. There was a Friends episode because, Oh, because he's an Ottawa guy. Matthew Perry was a Blue Jays fan. So there was a scene in his office or something on an episode of Friends where you could clearly see a Blue Jays hat. I've seen this. And I don't think Chandler was Canadian, but...

You know what? I think he was Canadian. Was the character Canadian? I think so. Maybe there was some reference to it. I think his stepfather is American, Keith Morrison maybe, but I believe Matthew Perry's Canadian. Oh, Matthew Perry is Canadian, but I don't know if the Chandler character was Canadian. Oh, my apologies. I didn't watch Friends.

I'm one of those guys. I don't think the Chandler character is, so it's like, but whatever. I guess at the time you could have just rationed, you could have said like, well, the Blue Jays, early 90s, they were like a hot team that everybody, you know, was wearing their logo and stuff like that. So Friends was not quite that early in the 90s, but it was 90s enough that maybe it would make sense to have a Blue Jays had there. Absolutely. And, you know, the actor pulled a string and got it done. But I'm thinking now of a Toronto-based show that would really like show up.

off Blue Jay's stuff was kids in the hall. Yes. I think I had references to the kids in the hall. There was references to DeGrassey, obviously. Of course. There was probably one. I don't know if like SCTV had, they probably did. I don't know.

Like there were a lot. There were some that like came across that were like really surprising. I can't remember all of them right now. But I remember getting like a lot. Because I think I put out. By the way, can I just say hook this to my veins? I would do a whole episode of Toronto mic on Toronto sports teams. referenced in popconter.

Oh, you should. Because if you put a call out to people that have you seen it or like what stands out, you'll get a million tips. And so that's what I did. I think again, it was also the pandemic. So I'm sure everybody was at home board and like just on the computers or whatever. So a lot of people wrote into me and was like,

look at this episode. But that Big Daddy reference, as I recall it now, I remember watching it when it was a new movie and just being blown away at how they tied it to Joe Carter's walkoff there in 93. I know. Yeah. Okay. Do you remember any, because I almost feel like you disqualify, because you know, we mentioned Kisna Hall and Degrassi. Like you almost have to disqualify the homegrown product. Like it's when, when non-Canadian media shouts out the Blue Jays. Yeah. I think there were. There were more American references, but I just, I'm blanking on it now.

You're blank. Well, you know, Rod Delmando didn't give us a heads up. This was coming. It just landed here now. I would have looked it up. But yeah, I don't remember. But home alone was when I remember. The Home Alone card. And as you say, the big. Daddy were like two of the bigger ones from like sort of blockbuster movies that everybody would know. In, this is not Blue Jays reference, but in Jackie Brown, Sam, he's got a Raptors bag. This is a famous Raptors reference in Quentin Tarantino's Jackie Brown. Sam Jackson has a Raptor's bag. That's cool. That is cool, too. I like this game. Okay.

You're going to come back for the episode where we go through all the pop culture references of trauma. I love that stuff. And that's the stuff. you know who used to do that a lot. And now he's an athletic guy now too, of course, but down goes brown. Yeah. Like that,

when I, he's the same age as me. He's an early guest on this program, actually. But that was his, before he kind of went mainstream, if you will. He really was a pop culture meets sports guy. Yeah.

Yeah. His stuff is always so creative, like in terms of, I like, because he's funny. Yeah. No, he's hilarious.

And I like to be creative too when I can think of the ideas that are creative. But I would always see his stuff. And I'm like, How does he even think of that? It was like, you know, like best team you can put together with guys with the last name that starts with an L that were born between, you know, like 1980 and 1990 or something like that. Yeah, nobody does it better. Okay, speaking of that, what was it like working with John Lott?

Oh, amazing. I mean, he was the greatest mentor to me. I, like, I went to journalism school and I studied how you're supposed to be a journalist and all that kind of stuff. But, I mean, I don't know that I had a better teacher than John on his. like sitting beside him every day and we would discuss story ideas he would help me you know craft stories or he would like sort of read over something like does this make sense john or should i write it like this and he's like yeah you know that's good and you know he was definitely uh not afraid to give you constructive criticism but always in a very like kind way he was a teacher like he had also taught journalism at

like a community college centennial i believe it was and so he had had he was used to helping like young journalists and things like that so he kind of knew how to give you feedback and how to do so in a kindly way that was going to encourage you rather than discourage you but yeah I mean him and I we would we spent so many days just sitting beside each other and helping each other and that was a thing too like not that I would necessarily be able to help him in ways that, you know, made his writing better in any way. But I was there to read over his stuff too. And like, even when your experience like that as a writer, you still feel like, I wouldn't say John had any sort of like imposter syndrome and anything. I think he was pretty, uh, confident in his

abilities. But you still, like, sometimes you're unsure, like, oh, if I write it this way, does it make sense? Or like, you just want a second set of eyes. So I think we helped each other. And nice. Yeah, but like, I definitely would say, I've had a lot of great mentors. And, you know, I mentioned some of them like Eric Carine and Sean and Myrtle and things like that. Corrine also sneaky funny. Oh, hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, he's very funny.

He's actually one of the, it's very hard to be funny in your writing. I think if you're not like a trained comedian or like a trained sort of comedy writer or something like that. Like he's not out here writing sitcoms. He's writing articles. But he has a way of being able to inject his voice and inject his humor in his articles that I always feel lands. Like he's also one of the writers, even when I teach, I try to teach my students about developing your voice. Like, so when people read your work, it should sound like you in a way. And it should still sense.

Well, that's authenticity. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like Eric's one of these writers. It is really good at having his stories read completely professionally, but you can hear him, you can hear his voice throughout it. By the way, you've been fact checked in real time. Okay. So brace yourself. It is not Robert Lawson.

So the listenership expects Robert Lawson to fact check. But it's actually the aforementioned Rob Delmundo, who I don't think I'm going to see at TMLX22 because there's a women's hockey game going on, if I have that detail correctly. And he covers the women's hockey league. But the actual baseball card in Home Alone was not George Bell, which is too bad because I was going to segue from George Bell to John Lott.

I'll do it anyway, but the actual player was Fred McGriff. Oh, yeah. You've been fact-checked. Okay. Get it right next. time, Caitlin. We don't accept these mistakes on Toronto Mike. Maybe I was lured by the poster. I saw him. So here's my segue to John. He was, yeah, you were seeing George Bell.

So the segue is the very last game ever played at Exhibition Stadium was a walk-off victory for the Blue Jays because George Bell hit the home run to walk it off. And we didn't call it a walk-off back then, but that's another story. But, so what am I, why am I bringing this back to John Lott? Because I love photographs that John Lott took of, of old exhibition stadium. Oh. Like you got a, I don't know if you've seen them,

but find the John Lott exhibition stadium photo set. It is quite something. I don't know if I've seen that. I mean, I've seen a lot of his photos. That was the other great thing about John is that he could take photos.

And so sometimes when, especially in the early days of the athletic, like we didn't have, we didn't have any, I don't think they have staff photographers even today, but definitely at the time we didn't have any staff photographers. And we had subscriptions to like Getty

and things like that. But if you, if we need to, kind of like an original photo. It was harder to get. You either had to do it yourself, but I was so lucky that I had John. And so I remember having some kind of creative ideas or doing a story where I was talking to like maybe two. I remember doing a story where I was talking to two relievers.

The story was about both of them. And it's very hard to have like, you know, Getty's not out there. They're just taking photos of them on the mound and things like that. So he was able to like get photos of them like pose together. so we had a really nice image for the photo. So that was another great thing about John. Unfortunately, I did not. I mean, he would have taught me how to take photos,

but I guess I didn't ever pursue that. So I cannot take outside of just being able to take photos with my iPhone. Well, I've taken 1,920 selfies by the Toronto Tree. So we're going to take one of those after this chat. There's a name I want to ask about, he's been on this program, and I did ask him about this. but Andrew Stodan. Oh, yeah.

What happened there? That's Andrew's story to tell. But I will just say that I enjoyed working with Stoughton. He was fun. I remember talking about 2020. I remember me and Stoughton at the time, we were just messaging each other. Like what are we going to write?

Like we were trying to make up all this content. You know, at the time, I think John was sort of slowly starting to take a bit of a step back, knew he'd be retiring soon enough. So once the season was kind of like up in the air, it wasn't like we were necessarily pressing on John to follow the stuff. So kind of me and Stoughton had to sort of fill the gaps and make sure. I remember me and me and Andrew had to do like a rating. I think we did like a rating of like every single Blue Jays jersey that has like ever existed.

And just like finding even the photos of that not to mention. I think there's a site. There's like a Jersey's website or something like that. I almost remember his name. Very famous. This guy who covers the logos. Yeah, he covers the logos and things like that. And so...

Chris Kramer. Yes, that's it. So we, I think he had a website up where you can see all the different logos and stuff. But I remember like having me and Andrew like dividing it up. There's like 20 jerseys. Like, what am I going to say about this like,

you know, black jersey they use from like 90, or like not 90. No, I know the one Roy Halliday had to wear. Yeah. With that angry looking bird. But there was just like so many. I think of Vernon Wells when I think of that. Yes.

So many little versions. of them and like, you know, and it's just like, it's not, it's just like you're really just, you're just writing for writing's sake and for content sake at that point. It's not like, Andrew and I were like inspired by the jerseys. We just had to figure out, um, what to write. And so that's, that one stands out to me because I remember him and I just being like, oh my God, we got to keep writing this. It was like so long. It was like 4,000 words. But I mean, we knew we needed to fill space. Yeah. So if people want to hear the, uh, because you were, you're, I knew you'd say what you said when I set you up for that one.

But, you know, there's, you know, nature abhors a vacuum. So people come up, oh, this is, did you hear about this and that? Anyway, Andrew was on Toronto Mike. Then I asked him that very question. And people can find Andrew Stodon on, in the archives of Toronto Mike. And they can hear what he had to say when I asked him that question. Okay, so we have you at the athletic. I guess you're over a thousand Blue Jays games you covered while work in there.

You're covering. Including like spring. and playoffs and all that stuff. Well, let me get my abacus out and make sure you didn't BS us here, Caitlin. Okay, let's get this right. So the million dollar question is for you, you know, we all know what Andrew Stodin's million dollar question was, why did you leave the athletic?

So my question, do you, Caitlin McGrath. Yes. Why did you leave the athletic after the 2024 season? Yeah, I think at the time, I just felt like I had sort of done everything that I felt like I felt like I felt like needed to do at the athletic in a way. Like I, like I said, I'd been there from the very start of the Toronto website. Um, I had worked in different roles. I had, um, I had, um, I had kind of, I don't know, like risen up to being a writer. I was a beat writer every day and I, I'd done that for a while. And

honestly, like, I was admittedly feeling pretty tired or, you know, were you burnt out? Yeah, I think that that was probably what I was feeling at the time. And I think that a lot of, maybe all journalists, maybe especially sports journalists, I don't know. But I think a lot of people that work in journalism, there's kind of always a curiosity about working in communications. And I had always had that. And I think part of it was that I've seen people make the jump.

Like I, I think Laura Armstrong has been on this podcast, right? Yeah, she has. There you go. So she had been somebody that was on the Blue Jays beat with me early on. She was kind of my contemporary. Like we were the same age. You know, we kind of came in at the same time. Obviously, we're both young women at the time.

So we, you know, we were quite close on the Blue Jays beat. And then she made the jump a couple years before me. I think I can't remember exactly what her last season was. But anyway, she went to the Canadian Soccer League. and has done amazing for herself there. I mean, she's continuously getting promoted. I don't even know she runs Canadian soccer at this point, basically. Right.

She's done incredible. And, you know, there have been other examples of people that had left for communications and left for sports communication jobs. And so I think that I was just kind of curious about that side of it. And it seemed like at the time I was thinking about what is maybe like my next act going to be. I think that also, I mean, I don't think I was, I was not engaged yet, but it was, you know, becoming a parent that I was probably going to be engaged. So I was also a little bit like starting to think about like what is the next stage of my personal life too.

Because when I was on the Blue Jays beat, I mean, I was working most nights or traveling. I would travel at least two times a month probably most of the time. Not to mention I'd go away for at least four weeks for spring training. So sometimes I'd go for two weeks, come back and then go back for another two weeks. So, and then, you know, depending on how long the playoff was, like, you know, there was just a lot of time on the road and things like that. And so I was at a place where I was like not sure how long, how much longer I wanted to have that be my schedule when I think about things like, you know, having a family and getting married and stuff like that. And I do think it's something that, you know, honestly, women in sports media have to think about a little bit more than some of my male colleagues. And so I think there was just all this stuff going on in my mind and this opportunity came up with tennis Canada.

And it just felt like maybe this was the time that I should explore that. And so I did. And it was an eye-opening experience, I will say. I learned a lot. I learned kind of what I – I learned a lot about myself because I think I got away from journalism, obviously. And I was kind of looking at it from a different angle. And I sort of realized through that process that. that I actually much preferred the work of a journalist

as opposed to somebody that's working on the periphery of journalism. I kind of liked being in the middle of it. But yeah, like it was not, it was a very difficult decision for me to leave the athletic because I did really feel like it was kind of like my home. And I wouldn't take credit in any way of like building it. I mean, there's a lot of people that worked really hard to build the athletic. But you were there for the ground floor of the Toronto experience.

Exactly. I did feel a real attachment to, you know, the Toronto team for sure. And I did feel like quite sad about leaving journalism. It's funny because at the time, like I was really like, I guess this is it for me. I'll never be a journalist again. And I'm like little that I know. I would get back to it. But yeah, like so I think that the short answer is just I felt like it was time for a change. And like sort of the long answer is that I was having a lot of, I felt like I was at a bit of. I was, I felt like I was at a of a sort of crossroads in my career and my personal life. And I just wanted to try something

a little different for a little bit and see if that would suit me. And it turned out that it didn't really suit me. And so I've come, I've come back. Well, the short answer would be, it's all Laura Armstrong's fault. Right? Like you saw you, she went first and you're like, oh, look at that, you know, and she seems to be enjoying this new career path. I can do that too. I know. It's, to be fair to Laura, though, I did see her. You don't need to To be fair to Lord, she's happy as a pig and shit. I did see her, like, last year at some point. And I remember asking her, like, oh, like, did you find more, like, work-life balance when

you went to, like, communications? And she was like, no, it's less. It's less. So maybe less travel? Maybe. I don't know. It depends, I guess. Maybe she doesn't travel to the U.S. as much as she would have still on the beat.

But I think she still travels quite a bit. But, yeah, like, I think it's just like, it's what you, I think, that she was probably, I think I've heard her talk about, like, just she's really passionate about soccer and Canadian soccer. And I think she really wanted to help that sport grow. And I think that I was really curious about working for a sport and like working at the ground level of growing a sport. And what I learned is that like, it's really interesting to see kind of the behind the scenes or under the hood, I guess, of a sports organization. How the sausage gets made. Yeah. exactly, but I just like, I just missed writing. I missed interviewing people and learning things and

talking to people in the process of putting something together and like, I just really missed it all. And I just, I think I learned that like, I think that's just my best skill set. Well, Caitlin, sometimes you have to take that leap and try something different, different to realize what you want to do with the rest of your professional life. I think so. I can see why you decided to mix things up after, you know, you were covering the, for the athlete. And also, I want to. to ask you what role the change at the athletic plays and all this because the athletic you joined very different from the athletic you left. Yeah, I mean, in a lot of ways, it was a lot better, though, because I definitely am a person that I enjoy process and I enjoy a level of organization. And so

once, like, it, it was fine at the start when it felt startupy. But after a while, like, it's hard when you're getting paid via like a wire service as opposed to like, you know, in the early days, like, I don't know if I'm like using terminology, right, but like we kind of weren't even incorporated in Canada. So we were almost treated like independent contractors or like freelancers essentially or like to the athletic. Eventually though. Like you sent an invoice to the athletic in the beginning? Yeah. Like that was how it kind of worked. It's freelancy. Yeah. So we. Welcome to my world. And yeah, exactly. And then but so as we move, along it became a lot more um like a lot more uh professional i suppose and

there was different different people came in anyway um but yeah like it it didn't honestly have a huge role in terms of like why i left like it was it was it felt much more personal to me leaving as opposed to like any big change of the athletic like of course there was things there that were maybe like a little bit less freedom Was it less fun? No. That's all that matters. I think that there was probably a little bit more of like you had to, like in the early

days like when it was John and I, like there was never anyone saying, oh, well, you know, everybody's writing a trade deadline piece. So on this day you have to file a trade deadline piece. We kind of just decided our own schedule and our own editorial schedule and things like that. So it was very much like us just kind of working between the two of us and figuring it out. And then once the athletic kind of starts. started to, there was a point where we sort of separated and stopped being kind of siloed into cities and became more siloed into our sports. And once that happened, then we had MLB editors

that kind of took over. And then it was a lot more like, well, everybody that's covering an MLB team is writing five trade candidates for your team and it's publishing on this day. And so that started to become a thing where you had to follow those kinds of guidelines and follow that kind of structure. And honestly, like, I didn't mind. Like, I liked the structure. So it, in some ways, like some people might say, oh, it's less fun because you're kind of having to follow a more formal schedule with publishing certain types of stories. But there were still a lot of room for me to do, like, probably stories that other people, other outlets would have said no to. Like, I did a story in 2024. I just wrote about like the J is crazy, like, 50-50 draw and like how it would go up to millions. And I like followed, I followed like the 50-50 sellers around the stadium one night. And like, so there was. So there was. was a lot of things that I was still giving like a ton of freedom for and able to like pitch fun stories whereas like it some other outlets like if you're there for the wire service or something like you got to just cover the game okay let me understand so obviously you decided it was time to

leave journalism at the end of the 2024 blue jays season so how long a time period were you gone from journalism before you return to journalism like how long are we talking a year it was like a year is a year in a couple months. Okay. So that year that you were gone. I know it's bad timing. I know you're getting that. Well, I did the same thing.

Of course, I wasn't ever paid. Maybe that was different. But like I made a decision for the first time in my life that I decided to like opt out of the Blue Jays regular season. Like I just decided when the 2025 season started, I wasn't feeling it anymore. Like it was too much Rogers. It was just too much Rogers to be honest. It was too much.

And I didn't like the performance of the team. I didn't like the management of the team. I didn't like what was going on with the general manager and the president and everything. And I decided, okay, I'm going to opt out of the regular season for the first time in my life. So I, and I wasn't paid to watch. I just decided to take the 2025 regular season off. So a couple of things. And then we'll get back to you because no one wants to hear my boring story.

But I was back for the playoffs and we all know what happened in the 2025 playoffs. It was bananas. Yeah. Like absolutely bananas. So before, I'll tell you what I've decided to do for the 2026 season. Did you get, like, I know you can't cheer from the press box, but you must have had some FOMO that you don't get to write all these juicy stories that were being, like, that were being eaten up like catnip or whatnot.

Like, man, the appetite for Blue J. Reporting in the 2025 playoffs must have been the highest ever. Yeah, definitely. There must be FOMO for you. Oh, extreme fomo. And it wasn't even like the, it wasn't that like I was bummed out to not be there because they were winning games. It was actually the writing. And it was like I felt like I had covered all the downs of that, of that era.

And then I didn't get to cover. You bought the ticket, but you didn't see the show. Yeah. So I felt like I was out like all the dramatic playoff losses. You know, I covered 2020 when it was like, you know, a weird playoff. But then 22 when they lost to Seattle, 23. when they lost to the twins. I'm getting PTSD flash.

I know. And so I just felt like, oh, this. And like I was so happy for a lot of my colleagues there, like Keegan and Ben Nicholson Smith and Shy and all these, all these people that had been there as well have, and some of those, Shai has been covering the team forever. But yeah, like they had also been at those real low points. And it's tough to write stories that after those really bad losses because, like, hey, people don't want to read it.

Like, I mean, they want to read it maybe just to like leave an angry comment or something like that. Or they do want to kind of read it to like process their own emotions. But it's not as though they're coming to your story excited. They're coming like prepared to. They're there to hate, hate view. Yeah, exactly. So. Well, like just to, I mean, bang home this point. But 2016, we won a playoff series.

This is like the, you still have the Alex Anthopolis fumes on that team. It was still kind of his team or whatever. So 2020, 2016, we went a playoff round. we did not we didn't win another i feel like i'm doing 50 mission cap here till 20 25 exactly yeah so i covered i was oh and six in the in the postseason games that i covered you it was me i know i was blaming the wrong people yeah so it was all me okay so you were a fan for the first time in a long time yeah and you could cheer yeah was it i guess you didn't have anything to cheer about actually i was gonna yeah i can't even ask it's like okay so i always

wonder like if you're a Toronto born person who I'm assuming you're a Jays fan. Are you allowed to say that now that you're a journalist again? Well, is that a secret? I like I actually don't consider myself a J's fan because I think I've just been I've been like too close to it. It's like the sausage made analogy. Although I've seen video of sausage being made and right now I'm craving a sausage. Like I put a bunch of mustard on a good old sausage. Let's go. I don't care how it's made. But I think it's hard to like snap back into fandom. when you know the players. No, I wouldn't say I know them personally

and that like, you know, I'm not, I don't consider them friends. But like, yeah, like it's hard to kind of like not think about it critically or not think about it analytically or not think like, my brain isn't going necessarily just like, I don't like, I think because you spend so much time not getting too high or low, you're just waiting for the game result and you're just responding to the result. So I'm very used to just having to like respond to the result. And I don't really get invested in the result.

I get invested in my own outcome. So like my story or like how late I'm going to get home that night because I've gone to extra innings. Like I care about that kind of stuff. I always like to joke that I like I root for quick games and storylines. That's what I root for. So like even though I was outside of the press box

and I could be a fan, I don't know that I completely like leaned into it. But game seven of the world series and I don't know, Do you remember where you were when you were watching Game 7? Well, I was watching it at home because Kevin was there. But he was there with his family, like his brothers and his dad. And so I... You're at home watching on the telly. I was just at home watching.

Okay. But when you're up... When the Blue Jays are up by a run in the ninth inning of Game 7, I believe that's what happened. It's all a blur to me now. But I believe we have a one-run lead heading into the bottom of the ninth in Game 7. Does that sound familiar to you? It was either the eighth or the ninth.

I think it was a ninth. Like I feel, because my kids remind me, I was running around the house yelling, this is happening, this is happening. Like I was in some kind of weird trance or whatever. It was Hoffman, so it had to be the eighth or the ninth, right? Yeah. Why do I think it's a ninth? The story is better if it's a ninth.

So somebody fact check that. My memory is it's a ninth, but, you know, it's been a while. But, like, are you standing up in your living room or whatnot? Like, I think I was sitting. Okay, you weren't even standing. Maybe I don't know. I might have been pacing. Real fans were standing.

There was just, I don't even, that's what I'm saying. I'm not a real fan. I would never pretend to be. That would be insulting to fans. Like that's a thing. Like they put in the time. They invest in the team. They have an emotional investment in the team.

No, I was watching intently and I was like disbelief. Like it's just that it had gotten that far. Like I couldn't believe it. Like I couldn't like, because I think like also I was, I was born in that in 1990. So I grew up in the, in the shadow of the 92, 93 Js. And those teams being the last teams that go to the World Series and the teams that had last won the World Series. And like, honestly, for a long time before even the Raptors won, they were just the last champions in Toronto. If you're not counting TFC?

I was just about to say, if you're not including TFC and the Argos, but if we just stick to like sort of the big three. Oh, yeah, I forgot about the Argos. Yeah, exactly. What terrible of us. But, you know, so just so, you spend so much of your life with the 92, 99. teams. And I remember like in, um, was it, I guess 20, 23, there was the celebration of that 93 team or an anniversary or something like that. Um, I just meant like there were so many times where I was like writing stories about those players because they were the last team to win a world series for the Blue Jays. And so it was like almost disbelief that like this was actually happening. Like, well, that's my, this is happening. Like I couldn't believe it was happening. Right. But even them getting there. I remember 92. getting them that, I just couldn't believe that they had gotten that far. So I was just, I was stunned.

Like, the whole game was stunning. Like, you know, I say I had FOMO, but I got to say, like, probably not that envious that I didn't have to write about that game seven, because that would have been a tough story to write. Like, just from everything that happened in that game. Even the force out at the plate? Oh, it's just like there was so many storylines. Like, I can't imagine having the ball got,

is that the wedge game or was that game six? Okay. You know what? I don't want to talk about that. But the game, the game seven had like the kind of near collision with the ball off Ernie Clement. bat where it was

Paix came out like came off the bench made the catch and it was like no one knew if he caught like every that whole game

like so many storyline even the boba shed home run you kind of forget about that now because so much happened after it was supposed to be the hero

yeah exactly maybe he's a blue jay if he well I now I now think he's going to end up playing for the maple leaves

at Christy Pitts oh no okay all right so much to to process there my goodness gracious but

is it could I I'm going to state something Caitlin you can tell me if I'm off base but maybe this is

like a textbook example of the grass is always greener like it sounds like you were burnt out you know you've been doing this

a long time at the athletic now you're going to try something new you saw Laura Armstrong do it you're going to go try something new

it was tennis Canada right it won't pick on tennis Canada but something went wrong there yeah I don't know me

any details but it wasn't what you thought it was because you were only gone a year? Yeah, I would say it was me. It was one of those, it was a breakup situation where it was, it's not you, it's me.

George Costanza. So, yeah, it was, Tennis Canada was just going about their business. And I was coming in, expecting one thing and, and expecting that the transition from journalism to communications would be like seamless and easy. And that there would be, that type of writing would be something that, like, I could at least kind of dig into as well. And it just, like, there was just a lot of aspects of the job that I didn't anticipate.

Like, communications is a lot more intertwined with like marketing. PR and strategy. Yeah, but the PR side of it, like, I could, I could wrap my head around and I could kind of understand. But it was more like the business side of it, like the corporate strategy thinking, the alignment. The alignment. The marketing. With the C level executives. Oh, I'm getting a rash over here.

Yeah. It was, it was more like that stuff that was sort of. not at all what interested me about, like, sports and, like, you know, advertising and, yeah, marketing and that kind of stuff. There was a lot of meetings that I was in that was like, the language was, like, not things that I could kind of, like, wrap my head around. You know what you needed at Tennis Canada. You needed a John Lott.

I know. Honestly, you needed a John Lott. You needed that mentorship to transition from journalism to communications. Yeah, but I think that even if I had had that, I, I'm a. pretty like I sort of know what I want and what I like sometimes so I think that like when I when I realized all that the job entailed I kind of understood that there probably was not enough that I could really dig into in that role that was going to leave me satisfied and I think that I probably didn't I think I didn't realize how much like kind of personal and job satisfaction I

got out of writing stories. I think like sometimes when you are doing it every day and like again like I don't, I think probably the 24 season being so, it pushed you out of being a fan. It pushed me out. So. And I'm, by the way,

you know, you'd think after the 20, I tease I'd just wrap this up that after that exciting playoff run in 2025, which I was clinging to every pitch in the playoffs of 2025, even though I'd skip the entire regular season. All it did was teach me, the regular season is too long,

too meaningless. You don't need it. You can just jump in. And if your team is lucky enough to qualify for the postseason, you can jump in then now. You can catch up so freaking quickly. I had never seen a game before the playoffs. And I was on board as if I had watched all 162 in record time.

You don't need it. And so you know what I've done? I'm doing the same thing this year. Oh, there you know, I'm still aware of how the team is doing. Like it's in the zeitgeist. But so, you know, will there be postseason? Who knows at this point? But there's so many wildcards.

I feel like soon every team will make the postseason. But I'm happily ignoring this regular season and I'm happy as a pig and shit like Laura Armstrong over there of the soccer Canada. Yeah, but I think that

I learned a good lesson in that like I really appreciate the writing process more and like I think I as I said I wasn't quite aware of how much satisfaction I got out of the process of writing and having my stuff out into the world.

And so, yeah, it's like you said before. Sometimes you have to get away from something to learn how much you appreciated. What did Joni Mitchell sing in Big Yellow Taxi? Don't know what you've got till it's gone, okay? It's just a core fact of life. Yeah, yeah. And so you got away from it and then you realized, oh, I do want to do that. And you wouldn't know that if you didn't get away from it.

Yeah, that's the thing I come back to because obviously I'm going to like stew about it and, you know, given what happened in 2025, it's like, oh, you know, people have asked me about that and I've had a lot of time to think about it. And the thing that I always come back to is that, like, I think I had to try it. Like, I think that you definitely had to try it. I think, as I said, and actually, now that I've come back to it, almost a lot of journalists have come up to me and been like, so what does communications like? It's sort of just like this big mystery to us and that we, we are constantly working with it and are we are constantly around it. But I don't know that any of us like fully know the full scope of the work outside of like oh well they arrange

media interviews which is like yes that's part of the job but there's a lot that also goes along with that job that I didn't really have a full understanding of so I think a lot of people have asked me about it and you know I've obviously explained my experience but I think that yeah that's what I always come back to is that look I think that there's always going to be a curiosity from the journalism end on what comms is like and probably vice versa and so I think that even if I had gone another season and granted like I probably would have been burnt out at the end of 2025 considering how deep into the year that they were all writing and how many flying back from L.A. and Seattle and all that kind of stuff. That was the thing too. It was like, people were like, well, you'd be miserable if you were covering the team right now. I'm like, yes, I would be miserable, but I'd be excited about the stories that I was writing at the very least. Or I'd like be able to write a book or something like that.

Oh, yes. But Kiga Mathis. Oh, he had to update his book. He had updated his book. Yeah. He's got a new chapter on the 2025 World Series here. shout out to Kagan Matheson, who loves his great legs beer. So here, first of all, I find this fascinating. Caitlin, I find this whole thing fascinating. That you were covering the Blue Jays for the athletic, and then you walk away because you're going to try this comms thing. Because somebody made that transient.

I'm thinking of Richard Griffin. Yes, he's another person where he's gone, and he's gone back and forth. And so I feel like I thought about him to. Because he's at the Expos. And then Perkins recruited him to write for the star. He was in communications with the Montreal Expos. Yes.

For years, I think. For a long time. Yeah. Right. And then he gets recruited by Dave Perkins to cover the Blue Jays for the Toronto Star. Yeah. And then he leaves to become the whatever, the media guy at, I don't know what the title is. The media guy at the Toronto Blue Jays. Yeah. Richard Griffin. And then I believe it's a dear friend Maritime's buddy of Keegan Matheson, Gregor Chisholm, who leaves MLB.com to take the job at the star and guess who replaces Gregor Chisholm at MLB.com? Keegan Matheson. What a small world after all. My goodness,

all the pieces fit and all the pieces matter. I find all this fascinating. But let me shout out a couple of partners here and then we'll pick it up with you coming back to journalism. Okay. So what have I given you? So if I've given you anything yet, I gave you a book on the front.

I want to give you more. Okay. Fresh craft beer for you. And I guess Kevin could have a can or two as well. But this is from Great Lakes Brewery. And they're the ones who are hosting us on June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. Everybody is invited

because they're going to buy you your first fresh craft beer. So you're taking home that fresh craft beer. You've got to respond and you're supposed to say. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I thought this is like an ad read and I was just supposed to be silent. Does this look like an ad read? Do I look? No, come on. So I'm giving you that. Thank you. In my freezer upstairs

because you need to eat, I have a delicious frozen lasagna from Palma pasta. Amazing. I love this place. Yeah, well, listen, And you think the CBC gives you this kind of swag when you go on their shows? No. So you've got the beer. You got the lasagna.

There's a measuring tape for you courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Thank you. By the way, the most recent episode of Life's Undertaking, which is the podcast from Ridley Funeral Home that Brad Jones hosts, features Heather Rankin from the Rankin family. Oh, I love the Rankin family. And she was delightful. And there's interesting to have her on this podcast because the Rankin family has suffered a lot of loss.

there's some sadness there amongst the beautiful music and it was interesting to because this was recorded yesterday but Heather has this wicked blend of like a voice of an angel and this wicked sense of humor and these two qualities have carried her through some sadness it was quite a conversation so catch Heather Rankin on Life's Undertaking

Okay last but not least If you have old electronics, old devices, old cables Do you have any of that stuff in a drawer or a closet at home? Yes, a lot. Are you considering throwing that into the garbage? I don't even know where to put it. Right, okay. You've come to the right place.

This is why you're here, to be honest, okay? Not just lasagna and beer here. If you go to RecycleMyelectronics.ca and put in your postal code, you could find out where to drop that off to be properly recycled so those chemicals do not end up in our landfill, Caitlin. Amazing. It is amazing. Absolutely. And much love again to Nick Iini's from Fusion Corp. His podcast is called Building Toronto Skyline. He's got another one with me called Mike and Nick. And he stepped up to help fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike. And we love Nick for doing that. Okay. So do you watch Arrested Development? Have you ever watched Arrested? I've seen episodes, but I didn't watch it all the way through or anything.

Okay. Because I'm now picturing Job. And he would say, I've made a huge mistake. This is a Will Arnaz character. Yeah. I've seen that clip. I've made a huge mistake. Yeah. Do you have a moment at Tennis Canada where you say to yourself, I've made a huge mistake? No, I don't think I said I've made a huge mistake.

But I think that my moment of clarity came during the tournament that the Tennis Canada hosts, which is the National Bank Open. Right. Not Rogers anymore, right? No. No national bank. Yeah, National Bank Open presented by Rogers. So the Rogers are still a presenting sponsor. Just not a title sponsor.

And so it was interesting because I think for the first while that I'd been at Tennis Canada, I'd done some media relations, but not a ton of it, mainly through email and things like that. So it's like, you know, it's kind of weird when I got an email from somebody that I used to be like a colleague with. And now I'm sort of like more formal with them. Why is Damien Cox writing? Yeah. But I think the tournament was like the first time that I was like kind of like face to face with like and I covered the tournament as a journalist. Maybe only once or twice with the athletic, but I did it for the National Post when I was there.

So I had been there as a reporter and had kind of experienced it that way. And so this was me experience it in a different way. And I think throughout that tournament, you know, it was really fun to just be there. And obviously I love tennis. And so I loved watching the tennis. And so I still had a good time. But I found myself always kind of like kind of like kind of looking. longingly out to like the press area.

Enough about Rob Longley, okay? I do, I do, we haven't mentioned Rob, but he's, he's a good friend too. But I would just kind of look out at like the actual press center. And I was sitting in a different area, just like an office that's like kind of attached to the press center, but not actually in the press center. Is this like Soby Stadium? Yeah. I was there for my son's convocation two days ago.

Yeah. Yeah. There's always graduations around this time. But yeah, so like the media room is kind of in the, I don't know, like the bowels of the stadium. And so, yeah, I just kind of found myself, like, seeing what the journalists were doing and, like, kind of knowing in the back of my mind, like, that's what I used to be doing here and sort of, like, kind of wishing that I was still doing that job as opposed to the job

that I was currently in. Like, I found myself, I think that was the thing, too. Like, I just found myself always kind of thinking about journalism. And I don't say this in any way to, like, be offensive. but I haven't really spent any time thinking about doing communications since I left. So that's a bit of a signal to me that I think I... Offend the hell out of them. Who cares? No, no, no, all good people. All good people.

But like that's just like something that like I felt like when I was not writing, I was always kind of thinking about writing or thinking about covering the Jays or like thinking what I would be doing if I was covering the Jays or like all this kind of stuff. Whereas like now I have never really thought about like, oh, like what press release would I write or something like that? Like I haven't really had that thought. So I do feel like I sort of had my little detour, but I found my way back. And, you know, I don't know that I'll be like writing for the rest of my life.

Like I do, that is what I like to do. But I also like editing and I like, I do like teaching as well. So I like helping young writers. I like mentoring. And I do think like an editing role. I would like an editing role too, where an editing role or I could still write a little bit or things like that. But yeah, like I don't think that I'm necessarily. I think that I feel satisfied with what I got out of being a beat writer.

I don't know that I want to go back to that schedule necessarily. So where are you freelancing right now? Yeah. Okay. So you're still, you're now a journalist, a freelance journalist, but obviously I guess you're looking for vacancies.

Yeah. You're hoping, am I right? You're hoping Gregor Chisholm takes a job with the Toronto Blue Jays and communications. And you can, well, you know, Kegan will fight you for that spot,

maybe, you know, but you can stay. Kegan's job. Right. Right. This is, and then Julia Cruz will be like, wait a minute. I got dibs on this spot.

What's going on here? Okay, I see how this chain works here. But you're, so you're kind of a free agent. Yeah. But there's not like a free agent sweepstakes going on with me, though. Well, you don't know. Like, okay, the problem, not the problem. Well, it's a problem.

You're into, the number of publications, independent publications that are still covering sports for actual money that you could live in Toronto on. Like, like, they're so, they're fewer than ever. It's just shrink. It's a shrinking pie. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough time. Like, I mean, I don't know that it's shrank anymore since, like, the time that I started.

Oh, sure. I'm sure it has. Maybe. Well, you would know better than me. I shouldn't tell you it has. But, like, I think there's less investment in it. Like, you've seen travel budgets go way, way down. Like, that's something that I definitely noticed.

Like, at the start of the time that I was covering the Blue Jays, there were a lot more writers that were traveling regularly. and then by the end it was maybe just a handful of us. Like three of us, three outlets would be there. So who would be, if you were on the road to see a Blue Jay game in 2024, who might be there from Toronto? Like the other writers? Yeah.

Sportsnet Travels saw the games obviously because they're right. So that's like Arden's Welling. This is like Ben Dickleston Smith. Yeah. Shide. Shai Daviti. Yeah. And then MLB.com's always there.

So whether it's Keegan or they have other like freelancers and stringers. and other writers in all the other major cities. What about the sun? Like would Rob Longley show up? So when I first started, they were traveling a lot, if not to all the games. But I think by 2024, it was like less. Right. It was more like just for the important series or maybe by the end of the year when things are getting like tense.

I mean, in 2024, most of us pulled back on travel because the team wasn't very good. that's usually what would happen. So a lot of outlets will kind of kind of take a wait and see approach to to some of the travel in the second half. And it's like if the Jays are in a division race or something like that, then you're going to see a lot more writers traveling. It would be interesting, no, only because I have, like, I've literally had in this basement at the same time.

I've had Bob Elliott, Dave Perkins and Larry Milson. Yeah. Like here together, okay? So that's a lot of beat reporting for the Toronto Blue Jays. And we'll talk about the 93. I just had Joe Carter on the program two weeks ago. Yeah. Joe, well, I was at his golf tournament.

So he had to talk to me. Rod Black made him do it. But it was great, great conversation. Shout out to Joe Carter. He's nice. Yeah, he's actually really nice. I like Joe Carter. Although I will say this.

Rod Black, we were talking about the statue because remind me to get back to the whole people at these games. But we were talking about Joe Carter's statue and how he had to keep it a secret. Rogers told him it was happening. He had to keep it a secret. He's seen the designs. And we're talking about this whole thing. And then Rod Black is there on the mic, and this is on my show, but I'm at Glen Abbey golf course.

And then Rod Black's like, we need more statues. So I'm like, you know, they do that Scotia Bank Arena. You've got lots of great leaf statues there. So I'm like, yeah, we need more statues. And he goes, we need Robbie Alamar with his arms in the air. And I almost spit my coffee into the microphone. And I'm like, they won't even put Robbie Alamar on a collage of Blue Jays who played second base for this 50th season. Yeah.

I don't know if Rod Black was what he was smoking that morning. And even Joe had a laugh when I basically said that ain't going to happen. But I don't know if you have any opinion or thoughts on this. But it is kind of wild as we celebrate this 50th season of Blue Jays baseball that the arguably, and this is what I would argue, the greatest positional player in the history of this franchise, is persona non-gratist, forget a statue. He's not going to go on a poster that shows great Toronto Blue Jays' second baseman.

Yeah, but I don't think he's a person that we need to celebrate. Well, okay, I'm not even saying we need a statue. This is Rod Black talking. I was laughing at the whole concept. It's just an interesting wrinkle. I'm okay with that decision. You're okay. Well, you might know more than I do.

This is nature of pouring a vacuum again here. So I was going to ask you about maybe your thoughts. So I told you about those three wise old men that were down here. It's very biblical. Okay, wise old men who were here. And they were talking about how many people just from the Toronto Star would be at the 1993 World Series. series in Philadelphia. So when they played in Philadelphia,

game five, I guess it would be. Like 50 people would be there, photographers, 50 people from the star. Yeah, that's crazy. I know. So I don't know if you have an answer for this, but I guess would you have a sense of how many people would be at the game in Los Angeles?

I guess that would be game five as well, right? Yeah. So how many people would be in Los Angeles from Toronto-based media? And if we exclude Sportsnet, which of course has the cover, they're covering the game and their parent company owns the team. Like overall, I think there would have been 50 people overall there from China.

Well, that's, I would have guessed lower. I don't know. Like, it's hard to say, but like, because I wasn't there. But Sportset alone honestly would have sent like 20 people. And maybe you're not counting them.

But like, then you have like a handful from the star. I think they probably sent at least two or three riders. Like Wilner's there? Yeah, Wilner, Gregor, maybe Rosie. Yeah, Rosie would be there for sure. Yeah, and then probably send a photographer. Right, okay.

You can get a precise. I mean, I wasn't there. You could probably get a precise answer. And then MLB.com. I was just curious if you had a round estimate. I mean, I would have said that Sportsnet alone would have sent. Like, because, I mean, I know SportsNet, like, they, like, had a lot of their writers and people, like, on a plane themselves because they were sending so many people.

Okay. All right. So there you go. but nothing like 93, that's for sure. No, probably not. I mean, I think just like the biggest difference would probably be like photographers going to. Like the number of staff photographers is probably lower. Like I think now you would just rely on like the, um, the wire services that are like based in those cities.

Um, so I think, but then again, like you didn't have social media people back in 93. So a lot of people might have been sending more like people to capture kind of content as opposed to just photos. So yeah, it's different. That's the thing with sports media is too. It's like, yeah, there's probably fewer jobs because there's fewer outlets. But there's also a lot of different jobs that didn't exist, right? Like content creation, social media, all that kind of stuff wasn't something that existed. So there's probably fewer writing jobs and fewer like columnist jobs and things like that.

But there's in other ways it's grown in some ways. I mean, teams themselves staff up a lot more. So if you're urged into like content creation, getting a job with a team is probably very satisfying if you just want to like create cool videos and things like that. Yeah, that's a good point there. That's going on there. That's PR again though, basically. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right, no journalism required. Okay. So you're available. Yeah. You're doing freelance work. You realize you love journalism. That's your back in. Journalism is lucky to have you back. You're also, you mentioned this a couple of times. You're teaching at the

College of Sports Media. Yep. I, it's funny, I think this was the anniversary. I just posted a photo of Jim Van Horn and I by the Toronto Tree because it's like the anniversary of his first visit or something to that effect. And I remember Jim coming over at, I don't think he's there anymore,

but he was a teacher at the College of Sports Media. Yeah, I think so. And did he also teach it at Fanshaw in London? Possibly. Yeah, I don't know. But Jim Van Horn, you know,

day one or at TSN, I believe, and he was at a big chum, 1050 chum jock in the 70s. Like, this is Jim Van Horn. But so maybe just give us a little sense of, College of Sports Media, like, like, these are aspiring people who want to one day work on the, I don't know, on the fan or at TSN or something like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like,

it's a private two-year college. The program is two years. You can kind of come to it. There's some students that come through it straight out of high school. There's some students that come through it after university and use it as a more of a post-grad. There's some that change their careers. Like they're in their 30s and they come and they realize they want to You know, Dan Shulman wanted to be an actuary. Yeah. He also. also went to Western. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And so, yeah, it's a kind of a varied mix of students. And most of them are interested in pursuing, yeah, like sports media in some way. A lot tend to be kind of

interested in the broadcasting side of it, TV, radio, a lot of also like the technical roles that I like know nothing about. But, you know, they're taught how to be camera operators. They're taught how to be board operators. So they, it's, it's a much more practical school than I went to for journalism school, which was more, like, it was a master, so it was a lot more theoretical. We did some practical stuff. So how did you get the gig teaching there? Yeah, I think that Sean Fitzgerald had like an inn there and he reached out to me and was like,

oh, would you be interested in teaching? And I said yes at the time. I was, I actually had been thinking about it. Like I, I, I think I met with a friend who taught it Centennial. And I remember, like, kind of picking his brain on teaching. And it was something that I was interested in. So it kind of fell in my lap at the perfect opportunity. And so, yeah, like, I met with the program director there, David Lannis.

And they brought me on. So I've been teaching there. I've done to, this was my second year. So I'm going into my third year teaching next September. Okay, good for you. That's amazing. And you're back in journalism, you're teaching there. And I don't know if you saw this on Blue Sky, but I call him Edmonton Matt.

There's a chap named Matt Layden who, he used to do this on Twitter, but I quit Twitter. And I told him, you're going to have to come to Blue Sky if you want to keep doing this. But like every single day, I'll get a who's on your show. Like, he's almost, he's the best PR you could ever have. Okay, this guy. I want to say hi to Edmonton, Matt. Love this guy. But he's like, sometimes I think I'm unfiltered.

I'm like, no, Edmonton, Matt, he's mastered the art of having no filter. So he'll ask questions, which some will be maybe a little offended by, or maybe they'll be inappropriate or whatnot. And then he'll send these things out of left field. So the question for you is not for you, but I'm going to read it because Edmonton Matt sent it in. And I love this guy, okay? But he says, hi, Caitlin McGrath. Dot B-sky.com. Any chance you could please ask Sandy Brondello to acquire Caitlin Clark from the Indiana Fever team.

I wish. That's a WNBA thing. And I responded like, okay, and then the Leafs should also trade for Connor McDavid or something like that. But this is Edmonton, Matt, dreaming and technicolor that you can get Caitlin Clerk from Indiana Fever and Adam to the tempo. Yeah. I don't have that kind of sway. I've only covered two tempo games. Okay.

So Edmonton, Matt, if you're listening in beautiful Edmonton, Alberta, home of Cadence Weapon and my wife, please know I've asked your question. of Caitlin McGrath, and she lacks that power, but maybe someone else can help you get to Sandy Brondello and get Caitlin Clark on Indiana Fever. And speaking of women's athletics, I just want to say that I was wrong about the women's hockey league. When is it? I'm completely out to lunch.

That season just ended. So Rob Delmundo will not be at any women's hockey game. I'm so stupid is what I am. Although I do produce the official podcast of the WPBL, which is the women's professional baseball league. So you never know who you're sitting with, Caitlin. That's the kind of, very cool. But I want to say Rob Delmendo,

Rob Delmundo will be at TMLX-22. And on our way out, because you've been amazing and I see I took 90 minutes of your life. You'll never get it back, Caitlin. It was worth it. You're going to be. This will be great publicity for me. Yeah.

So how should people follow you? How should people reach out to you? All those people are saying, I need Caitlin McGrath on my journalism team. Yeah, I mean, I'm still on Twitter. I don't use it as much as I... No judgments. How dare you?

I'm still on there and still... You can still find me there. I think it's Caitlin C. McGrath on Twitter and then... It's either Caitlin McGrath on Blue Sky or Caitlin C. McGrath on Blue Sky. On Blue Sky, I'm looking at it because Edmonton Matt, I just copied it. It's Caitlin McGrath. There you go. So there's my name.

Okay. And I also... I saw you on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn too. You'll find me there. LinkedIn has gone to shit, man. Like, I've been on LinkedIn for... but it's become crazy Facebook land for LinkedIn lunatics.

I don't know when they decided that LinkedIn was like Facebook nor. You got to keep a social media platform pure. And maybe that's blue sky. Oh, it is blue sky. It helps that there's not that many people there. We can keep it clean. But you know who's down goes brown is there. Wilner's there.

I'm there. What more do you want, Caitlin? You're there. Okay. This was amazing. What are your jams? This is a big one on the way out here before. we say goodbye, but like if you're going to go listen to music that you love,

what genre, what artists might you be listening to? Oh, I'm like, I'm not a huge music person that I just don't stay on top of it. So I just like listen to like whatever comes through a Spotify playlist. Do you, that's interesting that you're, okay, I just assume all, everybody's a music person. But like, when you were buying CDs, would you buy CDs? Yeah, like when I, like, when I, I was a kid. Okay. All right. No judgments on this one here either. No judgments at all. Caitlin McGrath. I loved this conversation. Thank you so much for having me. And this is great.

My first time. Maybe not my last time. No, I'm going to get you. You're going to come in here with Eric Corrine and maybe Sean McIndo. Is that how you say it? Down Goes Brown? Sean McIndoe. I think so. I think so. I think so. You're all coming over together just to make me laugh. Okay. That's what you're going to do. Perfect. And maybe I'll see you and Kevin at TMLX22 on June 25th. But thanks for doing this. I loved it.

Thank you. Thank you. And go Canada at 6pm. Yeah, go Canada. Biggest game in the history of this country. Until the next one. And that, that brings us to the end of our 1,920th show. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs.

whatever the hell that means. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that is Great Lakes Brewery. Caitlin has her beer. Palma pasta, I'm going to get you your lasagna. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, you have your history book. Nick Aienies. Nick, we don't have any swag for the guests.

Give me some swag. Same with you, recycle my electronics.ca. And Ridley Funeral Home, you've got your measuring tape. Tomorrow, speaking of music. Tomorrow is toast. Caitlin's like, what the hell is toast? Well, every month, Rob Pruss and Bob Willett join me in the basement and we kick out thematic jams.

And tomorrow we're kicking out our favorite weather jams and we'll bring the mind blows and we'll bring the fun facts and we'll drink the Great Lakes beer. Don't you dare miss at live.trottomite.com at 10.30 a.m.