Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Karen Stintz: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1949

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

In this 1949th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Karen Stintz about her years on Toronto's City Council, Rob Ford, TTC Chair, running federally, and her new book Beyond Good Enough: Toronto and the Crisis of Urban Complacency.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, my name is Karen Stence and I'm here today to debut my first book called Beyond Good Enough, Toronto in the Crisis of Urban Complacency. I often get asked why I wrote this book and what led to it. And so I'm here today to talk a little bit about that, a little bit about what I hope the book does in terms of sparking discussions that I think we need to have about this city. And I hope at the end people feel hope that there is a way forward and that the choice is ours to make. The city that we want to have, maybe different than the city we currently have, but we have the choice to make that change. And so I'm really happy to be here to make my debut on Toronto Mikes. And so thank you very much.

Welcome to episode 1,949 of Toronto Miked, an award-winning podcast. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakes Beer. com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palmapasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christie Pits this summer. No ticket required. Fusion Corpso, Nick Aini's. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline. and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recyclemyelectronics.ca.comitting to our planet's future

means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making her Toronto Mike debut, it is indeed Karen Stence. What a pleasure it is to meet you, Karen. Thank you, Mike. Has life been difficult since. Karen has become a derogatory term. Like, I feel like people use Karen as a slur,

but there's fine upstanding people like yourself who are born with this fine name. Well, that is correct. I mean, I didn't get a chance to choose my name. So, you know, thanks mom and dad. But I will tell you, in all honesty, I do feel extra pressure to be extra polite, to be extra considered.

Can you ask to speak to the manager? No, I would never ask to speak to the manager. I would express how I was feeling in the moment and ask if there's a resolution. I never thought of it from this angle because I had Karen Bliss on the show and she writes about music. She's been doing so for a very long time.

And she talked about how it kind of sucks. Like she had a perfectly fine name and now it's like a slur. But I never thought of it from the perspective that if you are getting railroaded by, I don't know, some big box store and they won't take something back and they sold you something and it was damaged

and you're in the right. You can't be that person who says, like, may I speak to the manager because you're a Karen. 100%. And I actually say. That sucks. I know. I say, listen, you know, I don't want to be a Karen because I am a Karen. And I feel like we need to do our part to shift that narrative that Karen's are jerks. And so I do feel, I carry that burden, actually. Yeah, I feel it like secondhand. Like, I now feel it. It's like if one day Mike became a, because there are some male names that have new connotations, like, oh, you're such a chat or something. And I always wonder, how old chads feel about this or whatever. But if Mike suddenly became a term for like some, like an asshole or something. Yeah, I'm, I had this name before.

it meant that and now suddenly I'm stuck with it. But Karen, honestly, great to meet you on the live stream. There's a chap named St. Catherine's Chris and he wants you to know he enjoys your hits on the Mighty 1010 with Jerry Agar. Thank you. He says, this is St. Catherine's. Chris says, it's serious, but there's also, it's jovial with good humor. So it sounds like you can strike that balance.

Yes. And, you know, Jerry and I have a long history. When I was as city council He actually didn't like me very much at all But when I left council He invited me back to talk about city issues And we developed quite a good rapport You know he does his show standing up

Do you know this? I do know this, yes Okay, but do you do it remotely Or when you go on Jerry's show on 10-10 Do you do it in the studio? I do it remotely because I'm usually on the party for two Which lasts about 10, 10, 15 minutes And so it's a bit of a, you know,

It's a bit of a hike to get to the studio but if I, when I'm, I did an interview with John Torrey when he was filling in for more in the morning and I went into studio that day. Okay, for John Torrey, you'll make the, the trip. Is that what I'm hearing? Jerry's list. Don't tell Jerry. I met Jerry once.

Actually, I met him at like, where was that? The Kingsway Cinema. And they were airing like a 30th anniversary documentary about Great Lakes Brewery. And I bumped into Jerry Agar there. It's the one and only time I met the man. But I do know, in addition to you, he'll have on my dear friend, Ed Conroy, from Retro Ontario. So he does bring in some pretty good guests.

So shout out to Jerry. Shout out to Jerry. Hopefully Jerry's listening. Okay, so you mentioned in your cold open that you just wrote your first book? Yes, this is my first book. Okay, beyond good enough. Toronto and the crisis of urban complacency.

And we're going to get into why you wrote it. I was checking it out. I got a few questions about it. I was hoping maybe we could get to know you a little better. So the TMI, the Toronto Mike universe, wants to get to know Karen stints a little better off the top. Is that cool? That's very cool. Okay.

What would happen if you said it wasn't cool? Like, I was thinking, oh, what do I do if she says? Then I would be a traditional Karen as opposed to an evolved Karen. Oh, yeah. I forgot. You're like, you can't be difficult because your name is Karen. Okay. So for the official Toronto historian of the Toronto Mike podcast, Jeremy Hopkins,

I just want the listenership to know that this is episode 1949. And Karen, way before our time, we're similar vintage. way before our time in 1949, there was quite the tragedy in Toronto. So let's just quickly educate you. At the Toronto Harbor, there was a ship called the SS-Noronic. I always want to call it the SS-Moronic,

but that would be disrespectful. The SS-Noronic, and it burned. There was a great fire. This was in 1949. And 118 people died. Oh, no. Yeah, it's terrible.

It is terrible. So this is like a not a fun fact. It is a tragic fact. But on this day in Toronto history, that's what happened. Okay. So getting to know you better, I saw at the very beginning of your new book, which we'll get into, that you were like dedicating it to your father. And then I was curious like, who is Karen's dad? And I learned your dad was like a NASA engineer.

And I'm wondering if you could take a moment off the top. Yeah. Because that's cool. Like I want to hear more about that. Like just tell me a little bit about who was your, I have no idea if your dad's still with us. Is he still with us? He's not.

He passed about four years ago. So my condolences on the passing. But tell me a little bit about who your dad was and how he inspired you. Yeah, my dad was, remains one of the most amazing people I've ever known. He, you know, his biography is very interesting and impressive. He did work for NASA and he left NASA to come to Canada to help to raise me. and he ended up working at SPAR Aerospace. Now SPAR Aerospace has since morphed into MDA,

and it's an amazing Canadian success story. And so if nobody, if you're not familiar with MDA, you should look them up because it's actually pretty cool. But my dad, when he was working at SPAR, his project was the Canadian space arm. So when I was little... That's huge. That's huge.

When I was little, I think I was in grade 7 or 8, and he took me to see the Canadian space arm. I got to touch the Canadian space arm, obviously before it was in space. And that was one of the coolest things that I could think of. And my classmates and my teachers didn't really understand what I was doing when I said I was going to visit the space arm.

And so... Yeah, at that time, we wouldn't know what the heck you're talking about. What you're talking about? Just touch my arm. Exactly. But what was really more incredible about my dad was not just how smart he was and what he accomplished in his career,

but what an amazing person. person he is, was in that he, he loved the opera, he introduced me to the opera, and he loved the theater, and he loved musicals, and he loved good books, and he loved politics, and he loved a good discussion. And he was very, um, he just had so many dimensions. And my dad, um, he always had my back. And I missed that. Oh, I'm sorry. I just really feel like, the admiration and respect that you have for your father. And I wanted to share that because I think it's beautiful. Thank you.

Thank you. And the other wonderful thing about my dad was that he was always of the mind that problems were just things to be solved. They were never things to stop you from doing something. And so he instilled that in me. And so I think I honor his legacy by looking at problems as just things that we need to address. We need to talk about.

We need to decide if we're going to fix them. And then we just go ahead and do it. Yeah, like a problem is just, another opportunity. 100%. And that was my dad's view of everything. And every time I came to him with some new crisis, he always

had the same approach. Karen, it's just a problem to solve. And we'll solve it. And another way to spin that, which is what I've been doing for a few decades now, is sort of like the old, when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade, right?

It's the same spirit, I suppose. But okay, what was your father's name? Henry. Henry, okay. Yeah. I got to tell you that when I was in primary school, Canada Arm was a huge deal. Like, I'm just telling you, like, when I think of Canadian accomplishments of that nature,

it's Canada Arm and then, okay, let's go back and talk about the Avro Arrow. Like, like, that's it. Yeah. So how big is this? I'm just curious. So you're like, oh, my dad worked on it. Like, okay, is this a team of a thousand people? Is this a team of 100 people?

Do you have any idea? I don't know. Let's just say it was a one-man show. Okay. Your dad cooked this up and the Canada Arm is a result. Okay. Okay. Very nice beginning here.

See, we're humanizing you off the top here. You don't sound like a Karen to me. Thank you. That's the biggest compliment I can give you here. Okay. Thank you. So it sounds like your dad was a huge inspiration, but what, like, what prompted you,

what inspired you to enter politics? Like, so you represent, I took a note here, Ward 16, Egglington, Lawrence, 2003 to 2014. So what prompted you in 2003 to run for public office and run for city council? It was really a timing opportunity matter in that I was getting, I just bought my house, my husband and I were living in the neighborhood,

and John Torrey was writing for mayor, and there had been a lot of controversy at the end of Mel Lastman's tenure, and I just started getting interested in municipal politics in a way that I had never been before. And my involvement was really helping John Tori in his campaign. And then during that, I learned that the local politician who had represented the riding and had been there for 32 years

had stirred up some controversy. And so the community was agitating and looking for someone to run against her. And so I talked to my husband and at the time and he said, well, you know what? You're not going to win. So you can't beat name recognition in municipal election. And remind us, what was her name? Anne Johnson. Who, as I read in your book, was basically not even campaigning.

Well, that was the thing. She'd been there so long. She just took it for granted. And like, why not? because she's 32 years in, like, why would I campaign? I own this place. And so, but the thing she didn't, I think, didn't pay enough attention to was the fact that there was homes that were being rebuilt.

And new generations were moving in, and they didn't know who she was. And so what was fascinating was that the controversy that was all around Ann Johnson was quite localized. And, but the rest of the ward didn't know who she was. And so I would show up and knock of the door and they looked at me and I don't know, you seem normal and no one else knocked on their door. Right. She's not campaigning.

She's taking it for granted. Exactly. And so then, you know, there was a couple other things that happened. I think, you know, in the book I talk about my signs were late because Howard Mosco was the guy doing the signs and I didn't know. He was friends with Anne. So my signs were delayed. I love this dirty politics.

Oh, yeah. It was fantastic. I love it. But it actually worked out because, you know, the first day that signs go up or the first indication of whether you have momentum. And so if you can imagine here, I have been knocking on doors, talking to people, the first day that signs can go up, there's not one sign. Right.

There's not one sign to be seen. And so she thinks she's got it made again. And by the next week, we had, you know, 700 signs up. And by then, she realized that I had the momentum. Okay. It's funny how you entered no expectation you might win that thing, right? Like, so you're just, I guess you're just going through as like, you're just going through the process.

and you're thinking no chance to win. So what's your feeling when you see? I don't know. At that time, what are you watching? CP24? I have no idea. CBC, City TV, CTV, you name it. You're watching TV or whatever.

And suddenly you see, oh, you're going to win. Well, and it wasn't even not. Like, it was like four minutes after eight and I got called to say that I had won. And I had no time to process. And so then suddenly there's, you know, the media, showing up and there's cameras in my face. And I look like a deer. I absolutely look like a deer in headlights. I'm like, I don't even

know what's happening. Right. Like, oh my God. You know, and to my husband, I'm like, you said I wasn't going to win. Hey, you promised me this wasn't going to happen. Yeah, then you find out, oh my God, I have to do the job. I have to do the job. And it was, um, it was a

remarkable experience because of course I had been supporting John Torrey, David Miller won, David Miller like Ann Johnson. He wasn't predisposed to like me. Our politics were very different. And so it was, I, the first, my first term was a lot of learning. And, and I will say, in spite of the fact that Howard Moscow delayed my sign production,

I actually learned quite a bit from him in that first term around how to navigate city hall, how to focus on what mattered, how to, you know, work things through, and how to form alliances. And I worked with some really incredible people while I was there. So I was reading this chapter of your book. So we're not games of the book quite yet, but we'll, you know, tease it along the way here. but beyond good enough, Toronto in the crisis of urban complacency. And you talked about the Minto Towers.

Like, so there is, I don't know if we call it a legend or a myth, or you can call it whatever you want, but that the Minto Towers is part of the reason that you were elected in 2003. That's the urban legend in the controversy surrounding that development. And the backstory is it was sort of the first high-rise, like major high-rise development around Young and Eglinton. There had been 20-story developments, but these were like, you know, 36 and 52 stories. And there was a lot of community unrest in the area.

But the unrest was because it was not actually, Anne Johnson led the charge against, led the charge for approving the development against the local counselor, Michael Walker, who wanted something a bit more compatible with the neighborhood from his perspective. And so it was that area around Young and Eglinton that was agitating. Some members were agitating around the height of the building, how they didn't fit, Ian Johnson's role, you know,

Howard decisions made at City Hall. So there was lots of things that were wrapped up in that. And I got to be honest with you, I didn't really have an opinion. I'm like, I don't know. Is this a good decision?

It's not a good decision? You probably shouldn't muck about in other people's communities, but, you know, I didn't really know. And so when I was first on council, there was a view that I was anti-development. And so that I was put to the test

because there was a controversial development on Avenue Road. which I thought was very reasonable, but the community didn't think it was reasonable at all. And so that was tricky to navigate. Well, when I was reading your take on all this and affordable housing and everything, I actually lit a light bulb went off my head and said,

it would be amazing if you had a chat with Nick Aienes, because Nick Aienes, I produce his podcast called Building Toronto Skyline. And it's all like, this is all the kind of stuff. So I'm here to tell you, I have made efforts to get you on a Zoom with Nick over in the next couple of weeks. You're going to have a 45 minute chat with Nick Aeney's.

I'll be there too, but it'll be mainly you and Nick. I can do the intro and I try to get out of the way. And I want to just thank Nick Aeney's for helping to fuel the real talk here and urge people to check out that episode of building Toronto's skyline. So that's going to happen. Great. What were your thoughts on Mel Lastman? I'm just curious.

What a character. Yeah, he was a character. And my knowledge of Mel Lastman came in, in his later term as mayor. And what I will credit him for is that he always, he always had big ideas. You know, when he was mayor of North York, he was going to make, you know,

he was going to do downtown North York and recreate North York and make it, you know, a destination on its own. And led to a housing boom and a construction boom, a development boom in North York. And I grew up in North York. And I, you know, I remember when Young Street didn't have buildings.

You know, the Dairy Queen was on the corner of Elmwood and Young. and I lived up on Elmore. Like, I remember when it was very, very different. And it was Mel Lastman. You know, I talk about amalgamation as kind of the jumping start of a jumping point from my book in terms of how we've evolved over the last 30 years. And Mel Lastman was one of the proponents of the amalgamated city with a view that we could be bigger and better than the sum of our parts.

And that coming together would provide us with this, you know, incredible opportunity to be the economic center, innovation center, creative, culture. center where, you know, people would come and head offices would locate and there would be the vibe and, you know, and all of the diversity that would come with it and it would be just, you know, a tremendous place, a tremendous hub and, you know, not just, you know, the fourth biggest city in North America, but, you know, Toronto's New York and, or Canada's New York, rather. And he advocated for that. And so I give him credit for that, big thinking.

Okay, so we've got you on city council now. And I'm going to hit a few, like, you know what I call these like the, oh, when you've mentioned Karen Stintz is coming on. Some of these are the things that people will have top of mind, okay, for better or worse. Things like, so I'm going to just curious for your take on all this now that so many years have passed. But there was that talk radio fodder for a while. I remember talk radio enjoyed talking about $4,500 of your office budget. being spent on voice lessons. So I'm just curious now that that was in 2009,

here we are chatting in 2026. But looking back, much ado about nothing? Or is it just, you know, you know, Grisfer the Mill? Well, I got to be honest with you. I never really understood it. And, you know, when it says sound like voice lessons, it sounds like I was taking singing lessons with the choir.

Okay, you weren't a nice. No, exactly. And, you know, really, that was my attempt to improve my speaking skills. because I had been the same persparing me for trying to improve my speaking skills, called me shrill when I was trying to make my point. And so I recognized that I wasn't effective. If the way I said something turned off a listener, then I couldn't effectively make my point.

And so I went to try to seek some help and how to do that. And it wasn't well received in some media outlets. Well, I suppose the people were more concerned. concerned that it came out of the office budget. Were they suggesting that should just come out of your personal money, the money to improve your speaking? Yeah, I think they didn't assign it as a professional development expense. They thought it was something superfluous to my role. And that if I wanted to do that type of professional development, then that wasn't something that I should be using my office budget for. Well, speaking to talk radio fodder, Rob Ford was a regular on AM

640. And I still would, you know, and I don't listen to a lot of 640, but I used to have a commute back then and I would catch, he'd be talking about Adam Vaughn's got a cappuccino maker like in his office, like, and that thing costs like five, I don't know what it would cost 500 bucks or whatever. And he was going off on expenses left, right, and center. But Rob Ford wins the mayoral race in 2010. So, looking back, the late mayor, Rob Ford, what was your relationship like with him during his tumultuous term? You know, from my perspective, I actually thought we had a pretty decent relationship. It was largely respectful.

And, you know, I felt that he did have his heart in the right place. And he did want the job that he thought he was hired to do was to protect the taxpayer, to make sure that City Hall was listening to, you know, make sure that, you know, people didn't feel railroaded by decisions made at City Hall. So he felt pretty passionate about that. And, you know, for sure there was incidents along the way, but by and large... You don't say, Karen. Yeah, but by and large, I think he remained true to the reasons that he wanted to be elected.

It was John Oakley's show. You know, my brain, trying to remember who was the guy on 640 who had the regular Rob Ford chats about, you know, cappuccino machine or the price of this, the price of that. And there's the answer. John Oakley, no longer on the station. Okay, I was driving nuts there for a bit. Now, I won't say it, but he said a crude thing about you, got caught on tape, and you're kind of infamous for this,

being referenced in this, I think he might have been inebriated. But he was recorded and this leaked into the public, and he said something awfully crude about you. were you able to, you know, resolve this professionally with Rob Ford because that that was inappropriate of him? It was. And I, you know, in hindsight, I think I could have done, not that I didn't handle it appropriately, but I think I could have shut it down, which is what I would have preferred

to do in hindsight. And what he said is immaterial, but if you listen to the entire recording of what he said. At the end of it, he said, but I don't think she would want that. Okay, there's some additional context there. There's additional context there. And so when I was, I remember when I was first contacted by the National Post because this recording was unearthed, I actually burst out laughing because it was so ludicrous. Right. And then I got in trouble because it was making light of women who felt that they had been, you know, whatever. And so I'm like, and now I'm caught in this position of it, it actually was, it actually was funny. And if you go

to the end, he's like, I don't think she'd want that. So it was self-aware. Um, again, You shouldn't say those things. And, you know, for women who found that that was not, that was offside, I couldn't, I didn't want to discount that reality by laughing it off. But in hindsight, if I had just said, listen, you know what, if you go to the end, you know, he's self-aware enough to know that's not something I want to do. And I think that could have shut it down. And I think about that is one of the missed opportunities that I had to, to reframe what

that was, which was just, you know, a guy who was talking to someone and didn't think he was being recorded and someone taking advantage. and, you know, I got in the middle of it. And so he did end up apologizing. And I had said, you know, I don't want, like, it was already embarrassing enough. I mean, my kids were in little school, right? And, like, you know, my son came home and he's like, they're saying things in the park. And I'm like, oh, man.

And it was just so mortifying. And I'm like, please, I don't want this to go on anymore. And so we did have a conversation in his office and he did apologize. And it was heartfelt. And he was mortified. And I was mortified. I'm like, okay, can we be done now? And the answer was yes.

Yeah, move on. So you had the private chat with Rob, and he was aware of how inappropriate these comments are. You're a counselor. He's the mayor for a variety of reasons. But he said sorry to you. He did. Okay. But he did.

So I can't remember when that was, but prior to that, he supported you. I don't know if it was prior to that. I've lost track of when that comment was made. But he did support you as chair of the TTC. Yes, he did. Okay. just a moment on that because StoneApe 314 wrote a note on Blue Sky. What made Karen Stints change her mind, or in parentheses, or her vote at least, on the Scarborough subway extension?

So I never changed my vote on the Scarborough Subway Extension. I supported the Scarborough Subway Extension. So StoneApe 314 is misremembering. So it was, okay, but to give credit to the right, Right. StoneApe 314. Two stone ape 314. So there was, you know, David Miller had a transit plan called Transit City.

And then Rob got elected and he said, we're not doing Transit City. We're going to build subways. And he was going to, he wanted to, he wasn't actually, it wasn't clear what subway he was going to build. It was just that he was, he wanted to not spend money on light rail. He wanted to spend money on subways. And there had been this history around the Shepherd subway. Right.

So I, I never voted on the. Shepherd Subway never came to council during my time there. So we voted for the Eglinton Cross Town, which got built. We voted for the Finch West LRT, which got built. And we voted to extend the Blois-Danforth line. And we actually put in place an infrastructure charge to fund that along with the federal and provincial government. And so when I left council, that's what I voted on.

And that's what the plan was. Okay. Good. and we're clarifying things for StoneApe 314. I want to ask you about Karen, about this motion in it was March 2012 and you removing five city councilors from the TTC board. Could you like take us back to that?

That was a bold move. Yeah, it was. It was indeed. So we, Glenn DeBaremaker and myself, along with the support of council, we brought a petition to council when it was clear that

although Rob wanted to build subways, there was no viable plan to build subways. And we had billions of dollars in transit funding at risk because the province was not going to do anything until we agreed on what we wanted. And so we did sign a petition. We called a special meeting of council for the purposes of passing a transit plan.

And we were successful. But then after that, Doug and Rob weren't pleased with that. outcome. And they exercised their majority on the TTC and I was in a position where I was losing every vote and they were passing these crazy motions around how they could undermine the transit plan that council had just approved. And so I was lucky that there was a way that I could do that, but I kicked off the counselors that were the agitators and replaced them with people that would be supportive of the plan. Yeah, these five were basically Rob Ford supporters, these five counselors.

that was the majority of the TTC board. Yeah. That's a bold move. And I'm thinking now, I lived, I lived this era. Okay, I'm trying to think. So 2010, Rob Ford wins the election. He, by, I'm trying to remember where we were at in 2012. I have Ed Keenan coming by as soon,

the jog, his memory on all this. He was covering everything for the, the grid there. Or is it I weekly? Whatever it was called in March 20, whatever it was called back then. But I feel like, was he, were we in the process? of defanging Rob Ford at that point? No, I don't think so.

I think it was just a, it was a pragmatic approach to how would it build transit. Because the longer we fought about it, the less, you know, the more we had to live without transit and our city was growing. Our transit system was built for a city of, you know, one and a half million, and we're now three million. And we talk about transit, but yet all we did at council was fight about it. And so it was really. my opportunity, I felt, as chair, to advance a plan that was fully funded, that could get built, that would get built, and at least, you know, open, you know, I didn't realize it was going to be 15 years later. But you know what, it got done and...

It was an on, on-running... Well, I mean, I do these quarterlies with Ed Keenan, so it was an on-running joke. I kind of missed that joke. I guess we can't do that one anymore. No. Okay. It was a good run of joke over a decade. there. Okay. Mike from Kdub because I just posted on Blue Sky. Karen Stintz going to make her Toronto Mike debut. And by way, I'm glad you're here. Thank you. Karen Stintz in the basement.

Oh my goodness. I do have for you, Karen, fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. Oh, thank you. Brewed right here in Southern Atobico and they would love for you to take that. Thank you. Home with you. Thank you. Great Craft Brewery. Yeah. Great Lakes Brewery. Great Lakes Brewery. Forgive me.

Great Lakes brewery. I forgive you. I am also going to give you. I am also going to give you because it pairs nicely with the fresh craft beer. I'm going to give you a large frozen lasagna. It's in my freezer upstairs, but it was sent here by Palma Pasta. Oh, okay. Now, they're in the 905, but you can find them in some longos and elsewhere in the 416, but people can go to palma pasta.com or just get your butt to Mississauga.

Close enough, right? Thank you. And that's definitely going home with you. And because I'm giving you gifts, I'm just going to do two more real quickly here. I have a measuring tape for you from Ridley Funeral Home. Oh. They're at 14th in Lakeshire. You're not sure what to make of that one.

What do I measure from a funeral home? Anything you want. The length of my coffin? Well, that's the go-to. That's the go-to. Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home has a wonderful podcast called Life's Undertaking. And we drop new episodes every two weeks. I urge people to check that out.

And because I said that, I know Troy Birge from Great Lakes would be upset if I didn't tell everybody that Great Lakes has a wonderful podcast as well called Between Two Fermenters. and they really do a deep dive into this country's craft brewery scene. It's quite something. So check that out as well. And last but not least, on the gift front, I don't know if you've ever been to Christy Pitts for a Leafs baseball game. Have you, Karen Stince? I have not.

Okay, well, it's not too late. Okay. Although we're not making the playoffs this year. There's a breaking news, but there's a few games left in this regular season. And if you miss them this year, they'll be back next summer. And there might not be any Jays next summer. summer. So the only baseball in town might be the Leafs at Christy Pits. It's great baseball. No ticket required. I think I sit on that hill on a beautiful summer night, drinking a craft beer,

eating a hot dog. And I think to myself, this is the greatest value in the entire city. I'm telling you, Karen, you would love it. Christy Pits. So I said, a book. I know you gave me a book. We're going to talk about it in a minute. Excellent. I want to trade these. That book is the history of Toronto Maple Leafs Base Base Baseball. so that's going home with you. Thank you. Okay, Mike, this is a long question. Bear with me. Okay, I didn't take any vocal lessons.

I feel like I'm jealous of you. Like, I should have taken those vocal lessons. But Mike from Kdub, because I haven't asked this yet, right? No. Question for Karen. With her experience with the TTC and representing people with disabilities who rely on public transit, what opportunities does she see to improve performance of Toronto Transit?

It seems like the capital investment in new lines is not resulting in improved public perception. You didn't know you're on the hot seat today, did you care? No, that's okay. Okay, Mike from Kdub is hitting you of that one. Yeah, so, you know, I think the new lines have been built with more accessibility features in mind from the outset. And we know that it's easier to build accessible than it is to retrofit accessible. And so I think the TTC has done, or MetroLinks has done a good job on the accessibility front and the building of new lines. And the TTC has taken to heart the need to install more elevators, the need to communicate better.

And I remember sitting on the accessibility committee and hearing people. And it was, it was, you know, very powerful for me to understand going for individuals that rely on an elevator to get to the station. to get to their destination and learn while they're there that the elevator doesn't work. And how awful that experience is. And so I understood that. And so we went to go on to say, okay, you need to do daily updates on which elevators are not working

so that people don't find themselves in situations because you cannot have that. You cannot have that. And so there's work to be done. There's no question. There's work to be done. but the TTC is seized with making sure that it is an accessible platform for individuals. Off the top, I mentioned you were representing Ward 16, Eglinton Lawrence on Toronto City Council, 2003 to 2014.

So you chose not to run for city council in 2014 because you decided you'd run for mayor instead. And of course, unless there's a by-election, shout out to Brad Bradford. You can't run for both. Okay. Well, you can't run. There's no counsel in that situation, so you don't have to choose. So you play of house money. So I guess my first question is, any regrets?

Like, looking back, do you wish you had just run for another term as a counselor in 2014? No, at 2014, I felt I had achieved what I could as a counselor. And I was at an age and stage where it was really move up or out. And it ended up being out. and but it was it was a great run and I met some incredible people and what was remarkable to me and in hindsight you never really know at the time whether you're having an impact or not you know I was polling at 5% I was polling less than Chris Alexander for goodness sakes and you know you wonder like what am I doing here um what was amazing is that when the book launched and um people realized

what I was up to and they realized I wasn't running for mayor this time around I got messages from people in my 2014 campaign that reminded me of the impact that I had. And I also had people from my 2014 campaign come back and help me when I was running federally for my, you know, to be an MP in Ellington Lawrence. So it was disappointing and it wasn't successful and I wasn't going to be mayor. In 2014. Yeah, in my political career, you know, that's why I wrote the book because I, I'm a I have to figure out a new way to make impact because I'm not going to do it as a politician.

I've come to that determination. I'm at peace with it. And I wanted to still be contributing to public discussions. And I had to find a new way to do it. Well, when people talk to you about the book, so we'll jump into the book for a moment here, which is that when I read the book, I read the book. And it reads to me like a, it's like a platform, like for Karen Stints running for mayor in 2026. But you're saying there's zero, there's zero chance you're running for.

for mayor in 2026. I'm not running for mayor in 2026. I'm not. I, and I think I, like, in 2026, I'm going to be five years older and I'm old now. Well, you're a lot younger than Olivia Chow. I am, and that, I just think it's time for the next generation.

And Joe, Terry, for that matter. Of leadership. I really strongly believe that. I, you know, I, I write about the city that I grew up in, and it's great, because people that grew up in, that are in my generation, they can relate to a lot of the things I talked about. But I'm sure, you know, Brad reads this book and he's like,

I don't even know what you're talking about some of those things. Yeah, he's a younger guy. He's a younger guy. But I think it's great. I think that he's got the energy and the ambition and some of the, you know, I think that my generation has nostalgia about the city that might hold us back, whereas Brad has a brashness about what we could be, which I think is exciting. And so when I think about what the city needs in terms of leadership,

it needs a new, it needs new ideas, it needs boldness, it needs vision. It needs energy. It needs all of those things that I think the next generation brings. So you don't think Olivia Chow is up to the challenges to be reelected in 2026. Quite candidly, I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why Olivia wants to be mayor. I can't. I can't. Even when she was running in the by-election, I'm like, what do you want to do?

Why do you want to be mayor? What do you see for the city? And she won. but I, so when she's like, oh, well, you know, libraries are very important to me. I'm like, really? Because you didn't say anything on the campaign about libraries. And like now suddenly all the campers are getting snacks because that was really important. But I'm like, well, where was that in the campaign?

And even now, she's like, well, I'm not going to campaign until after Labor Day. But I'm like, like, why do you want this job? Why? Why? I don't know what you want for the city. Like age aside, I, every time I go to something, be it like a FIFA Fest or Ozfest or whatever. She's there. Yeah. And I get, like, I feel like I'm a high energy guy.

I'm a lot younger than Olivia. But I get similar vibes from Olivia. Like, this is a high energy human. Like, I don't feel like she's got the energy of a typical Torontoian her age. So I don't know. Like, so you're just saying she's, she's done it all. She's been MPP. She's done it all. Why do you want this job still? Like, why not let the next gen take over? Well, it's not even let the next gen take over. It's just tell me what you want for this city. I don't know. Like, she's great.

She shows up. She's the festival mayor, and she's leaned right into that. There's pictures of her dancing all over the streets. Okay, there was a wrestling exhibit, like a professional wrestling exhibit. She was right in the ring. I thought, I was like, oh, my God, it's mean Jean O'Kerland. Like, you're right, she's really gets in, and she was doing the same thing at FIFA Fest.

She gets into the, almost like a, not a carney, but kind of like, a like a promoter mode. Right. But is it like, what are we going to like, you know, she's said all these, oh, you know,

I've built all this affordable housing. Okay. Where? And like, you know, what do you want for, like, do you not think congestion's an issue or do you? Do you not think safety, community safety is an issue or do you?

Do you think that we should allow encampments and parks or don't you? Do you believe that we should have a transit system that people can take reliably and safely and not expect that there is going to be drug, open drug use? during the day at all hours on our transit system. Or like, do you think that's okay or don't you? So I don't know where she sits on any of these issues. Oh, so I wonder, as I just talked to you now, this just struck me.

So if it's stupid, let me know. But Karen, is it possible that when you considered everything, because it did read, I'm just saying, the book does read, like, here's what's wrong and here's how we can fix it. And if you were mayor, you could do so. And I guess I'm wondering, if you're not running because if Karen Stince enters this race, Olivia Chow most likely gets reelected.

Oh, no, no, no, I never had any attention. You never went that far with the thought process. No, no, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, no, no, not at all. And again, like, I'm back to... You were never considering it. No, never. And back to, you know, we started with my dad.

Right. You know, I see a problem and here's a solution. It may not be the end solution, but if we start talking about the problems, we'll get there. And I didn't want to just, I didn't want to barf out a book that was just problems. Right. Well, there are opportunities. There are opportunities.

Right. So you took like a mild swipe at Chris Alexander a few minutes ago. Do you think maybe his, you know, he's not polling very well, under 10% last poll I saw. But even that, do you think that's enough to lead the way for a re-election of Olivia Chow? Because those are most likely votes that would have gone to the anti-Cowel. contingent to his name Brad Bradford. Yeah. Just curious.

Yeah, I, I hope he takes his name off the ballot because I really do think that against an incumbent mayor, it needs to be a two-person race. I mean, in the history of Toronto, we often have three, three people running, but that's typically not when. First pass the post isn't good when you have the three. You just come up the middle. But that's usually when we don't have an incumbent mayor. So this is a case where we have an incumbent mayor with name recognition.

who's, you know, well-known. And I, you know, as I say, I, you know, when I was talking to John Torrey about this issue, I said, I'm not asking Chris to do anything that I didn't do. I took my name off the ballot because I knew it was, I had to put city first. Right. I had to put Toronto first. And I knew that I was, if I was there, I was probably just going to spoil John Torrey's chances of getting elected. Literally, my question, I just typed it out here.

Right. So tell us definitively, it sounds like you just did, but why did you take your name off the ballot in 2014? Because as I pointed, you ran for mayor, but you withdrew before election day. I did. I did so that my name would not be on the ballot. So I wouldn't be a spoiler. So the city would have a chance of electing, you know, clear leadership around, you know, where they wanted to take the city.

And I just knew. I'm like, no one's going to thank me. I mean, for, you know, it's one thing to tilt at windmills. It's another thing when you don't have a chance and you're going to actually spoil the outcome for someone else. You're still tight with John Torrey. Yeah, I was just on, we did a show together last week. Oh yeah, and on 10-10, right? And then John Moore came back from his month-long vacation.

Yeah. Ruining all the fun there. Okay. Do you have any insight into how close John Torrey was to running in 2026? I don't. You know, I think that if I'm going to speculate, I think he probably felt he had some unfinished business because he had during his term, he had COVID,

and then his third term was cut short. And so he felt that maybe he had some things that he wanted to still do. but that's the, I'm speculating because we've never talked about it. Okay. Okay. One fun fact, though, about your run in 2014 is that you had a campaign promise. It was a joint Toronto U.S. bid for the 2026 World Cup. That was one of the parts of your platform, right?

It was. Well, I'm here to tell you it happened, okay? You know what? Hey, I was ahead of the curve. Yeah. 2026 World Cup matches were held in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. I still kind of can't believe it. Okay, so before it's all book the rest of the way,

we do need to touch upon the fact that as recently as 2025 federal election, you ran to become an MP. You were running for the Conservative Party of Canada in your writing of Eglinton Lawrence. And I was reviewing the tape. I think this is as close as it gets, right? Like you did lose to the liberal. I did.

But I'm going to give the numbers here. Okay, so the winner, Vince Gasparo, Is that how you say his last name? Yes. 29,949 votes, about 49.3%. You, Karen, Stintz, 29,061 votes. That's 47.8%. That is close.

That is 888 votes. Jeez. Okay. Gee, this is like when I think Bart Simpson's thought he had his election all wrapped up and everybody forgot to vote. And Martin won by being the only, vote and he voted for himself. Martin Prince.

Okay, so drop in a Simpsons reference on you there. Okay. So, I can't imagine. How does that feel that night? When you didn't expect the win for counsel in 2003, surprise. Yeah. It's 805, we're calling it.

Karen Stintz has beat the incumbent of a million years. And in this example, at Eglinton-Larence, a 2025 Canadian federal election, you lose it by whatever, 800 and whatever votes. Yeah. How did that feel? Not that good. Not that good.

I can imagine. And I, whether I was delusional or I don't know, but I actually thought I had a chance. Clearly you did. Yeah, I did. 47 something percent of the vote. It's hard to lose a 40. That means the NDP just took it off.

They did not show up. Because if they show up, you win. You talked about the three horses in the race. Totally. Totally. I needed my horse. Yeah. But they don't draw from the,

although lately there's been a bit of that, actually. Actually, maybe they do now draw a bit from the conservative party. But, I mean, you really, if you want to look for a reason, you lost by 100 votes, his name is Donald J. Trump. Oh, 100%. 100%. But, you know, we, you know, emotionally and rationally, we, you know, we can go down the list of all the things that happened

that were out of my control or within my control. But, you know, the reality is I had to wake up the next day and walk my dog through the neighborhood and face people. And it was, it was, that was hard because, you know, half the people wanted to, you assure me that they voted for me, and the other half wouldn't look me in the eye. And that went on for some time. Really? Until finally, you know, and everyone, like there was, no, everyone was just trying to do what they could.

But it got to a point where I'm like, oh, my God, please, can we just move on? And then I had no job. And so I, you know, I didn't get to wallow in my sorrows for that long because I had a mortgage to pay. So I had to then find a job. Well, this begs the question. And so when you withdrew from the mayoral race in 2014, and then you ran in 2025, what were you up to?

I was president and CEO of Variety Village and Variety the Children's Charity. So Bridey Village, I'm going to show you to me just because this came up. So I have lots going on here, lots of things happening here. Okay, so I don't hear you're Mike. What are you talking about? Well, when I hear Bridie Village, okay, in the late 80s, early 90s, I was really into these Blue Jays songs compilations where like radio stations would all do like parodies of songs

about the Blue Jays. Like I was really into this. And here you are, two actual CDs. And they were always in support. I guess all the proceeds always went to Variety Village. Oh, there you go. There you go.

So I did that for 11 years. And it was great. It was great. I had a great team. We had a great mission. We had a lot of fun. Okay. And again,

you touched on this, but it's all book the rest of the way here. And apparently it's not like a... OJ wrote the book if I did it, right? And it's a terrible comparison because he's a double murderer. But you, this book is almost like, if I were mayor. Okay, so why did you feel the need to write beyond good enough? It was a timing thing. I was actually called by Neil from Sutherland House.

Neil Seaman. And he said, I think that we need to have a book about Toronto written, and I think you're the right person to do it. And I'm like, oh, that's okay. I've never written a book before. And he's like, it's okay. You know what? We'll walk you through it. And, you know, this is how you step by step. And so I had the time. And I also had the benefit of, you know, being on Jerry Agar's show for the 10 years and being, you know, on Zoomer media and having my column in the North Toronto Post and writing. Shout out to Zumer, right, because you're on with the Libby. Libby, you know, every week. And so I, I, and then my North Toronto Post column ran monthly for 10 years.

So I, I had, I was in that space where I could still be involved in issues and still talk about why they mattered and why people needed to pay attention to them. And I had this, you know, I had the material to talk about Toronto and where we've been. Right. And, you know, why we're here and how we could look at this differently. And do, do we have the city that? that we want. Nostalgia aside, do we have the city that is performing the way we needed to, to keep families here, to keep people wanting to come, to get head offices, to want to locate here? And, you know, objectively, I think, you know, Toronto's not broken, but it's drifting.

Well, but my vibe from reading the book is that you think the amalgamation in 1998 was a, like, a failed experiment of sorts? I don't know that it was a failed experiment. I think there were missed opportunities. And I think part of it was the way the city hall was structured. I think part of it was the way the funding worked. I think part of it was the fact that we were never bold in our vision. I think we didn't act with intention.

I think, you know, we tend to just want things to be okay. We want, and so we accept more than we should. Which that's the title, beyond good enough. so don't settle for good enough. Don't settle for good enough. I mean, we don't need perfection, but we do, we should expect excellence. Okay, so we're going to like, with Nick Aeney's,

I guess it's next week, we're going to do a deeper dive into like housing affordability. This is like a, like a, you know, a big one for yours truly here, building livable communities. And I'm honored to produce a show about it where we can really kind of dive, dive into it without a doubt.

But, you know, and you know as the former, chair of TTC when it comes to transit and congestion that you have a lot of great thoughts on that as well. So do you know if a copy has made its way to Brad

Bradford yet? I know he bought one. Okay, he didn't even get a comp. He said, I'm buying one. He said, I'm buying one, and it's getting delivered, and he sent me a text message with the image of it. Okay, you know what? So I bumped into Brad last week. On Simco Day, I bumped into Brad.

Brad comes to many ATMLX event. It's funny. I also, on Friday, I was walking the junction with my oldest, so I'm on Dundas, and I look across the street, Alan's Weig with his daughter. So, Alan Zweig is a great documentary, filmmaker in the city, but there was quite a moment like at a Toronto-Miked listener experience at Palmer's Kitchen when Brad and I were talking about bike lanes, and literally my dear friend, FOTM, Allen's Wig, stormed the stage.

He had had enough. It was quite a moment, honestly. We got to get you, Karen, we got to get you out to a TMLX event. All right. I look forward to it. You would love it. But I was just realized that I bumped into both of those guys in the last two weeks. But I would have on Toronto Mike, this is a long-winded way of saying, because Brad wants to come back.

You and Brad should come on together. That'd be fantastic. Like, you know, you're kind of aligned in this. And I am, I'm not an analyst. I don't need to be a genius to realize that if you don't like the direction the city is going in with Olivia Chow as mayor, you'd better vote for Brad Bradford. 100%.

100%. Like, it's just day and night. Like, if you think things are okay, vote for Olivia. If you want something better for this city, vote for Brad. Exciting, right? Like, it's like a referendum on how,

it was a shorter term, you know, just Olivia didn't get all, she only had a few years because she came in late. But that's, I gotta say, I think it's going to be exciting. And I've said this many,

many a time on Toronto Mike, but if Brad Bradford pulls this off, it is by far the greatest political comeback in the history of this city. He barely beat Chris Sky last election. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's great. And we talked about it after the election. We had lunch. And I said, you're in a sweet spot, Brad, because you're the only counselor, other than Josh Matlow, but on the other side of the political spectrum, you're the only counselor that is on council. Anna is now off doing her job. Other people weren't, you know, whatever they, they went off to do whatever they did. Right. But I'm like, you, you are in the sweet spot because you can hold Olivia to account.

You can be that voice for what different looks like. So seize that moment, and it might be awkward sometimes. It might be uncomfortable, but you own that space. There's no one who's going to compete for that space other than, you know, with you. And so, you know, it's lonely sometimes. But he, I think he did it and I think he did a great job. And I think he elevated issues and he built a coalition and he worked really hard. Do you still cycle?

I do. Okay, because there's, I know, I want to pick on all the, all the Karen Stintz controversies, right? But I'm just here to tell you, I do the rolling stop, okay? I'm here to tell you, I have, you know, I've read about the Idaho stop, and I really do bike for a two, I bike safely where, you know, I'm not, I'm not there to get, it's my safety,

and I'm not going to run into a pedestrian or anybody at all. like so I'm a very safe cyclist but without a doubt I'll do the rolling stop and uh what's the other one I do I do the when the when I'm at a red light and the pedestrian sign I feel like I go on that too because I need to get ahead of the car 100 because if they want to go right I want to be out of their way 100% so for my own because I want I bike and I want to live I don't want to die on my bike yeah once a pedestrian light goes walking green is a walking symbol once the walking symbol shows up I start going where the cars can't go till it turns green. So I know, I know a cop can give me a ticket for that

because I'm a vehicle. Like I know the law, the letter of the law, the Provincial Traffic Act or whatever, that I can't go on a pedestrian and go, I have to wait for the green light and go with the cars, but I don't care about the law.

I'm there to be a safe cyclist, but all this is that you got a, you did get a ticket, right, for a rolling stop. Okay, well, so... This is way back. This is way back, yes, and I remember it like it's yesterday.

So, so, it was right, so I was down Duplex and there was a cop station at the corner of Duplex and Eglinton. And so I went through the green light. I traveled down and I traveled through the intersection. And then I did the rolling stop. And then anyways. So you treated the stop sign like a yield.

Correct. It's kind of like an Idaho stop. Correct. And so then, and like no one was disrupted to your point. Right, right. No one was unsafe from this action of yours. So then I get pulled over and I'm, I'm like, really? Okay.

And so I hand over my stuff and I'm like, okay, here we go. Then I get a ticket. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. You're giving me a ticket? Because it's three points. Yeah. It's three points. I'm like, geez, if I known you were going to give me a ticket, I wouldn't give you,

I would not have given you my license. Right. Right. Okay. But anyway. I'm with you so far. But then I looked at the ticket. And actually, the ticket that I got, there wasn't a stop sign at that intersection.

You put down the wrong intersection? Yeah. It was a three, like it was a three, right? Like so there's a, and so there was no stop sign. And so I'm like, well, now what do I do? Anyway, it led to, did you fight it? Yes, I fought it. And I had a very testy, actually a very testy discussion with Bill Blair, who was chief

of police. Right. Because he's like, Karen, you know, I saw what you put on, on Twitter, but, you know, I have the dash cam video. I have the video. And I'm like, really, you're watching a video of me going through a stop sign when our mayor has a video of something else. Right.

Right. Right. You know, you're riling me up here, Karen, because I, I, I, I, I bike every single day and I bike a lot of clicks and I get around this city. And nothing pisses me off more than when I see cops stinging and getting cyclists. And when they do it in high park, for example, and I know what's going on on parkside slash keel. I guess it turns into keel at Bluer, I guess. Parkside drive. Like I know go there where you can save a life.

Well, you know, I think about the cop that pulled over that cyclist who was just being a jerk. And in that case, I'm like, you know, you shouldn't be a jerk. just stop your bike because I don't think the cop wanted to give him a ticket. I think he just wanted him to slow down. But nonetheless, like, I think that there has to be a little bit of, and I will say, like, I still roll through stops when there's no one coming and I haven't been pulled over since. We all do. I bike to work every day.

And so I don't have any issues. But that one was, that was, that was, there was some testy exchanges, shall we say. Do you get a sense? This is a loaded question. I think you'll probably tap out, but we'll find out in a moment here. But like, do you get a sense? Maybe TPS dislikes cyclists? Like they pick on cyclists?

I don't think it's a, no, I don't think it's a broad TPS chatter mandate. You're a better person than I am. No, I don't. You're a better person than I am. Okay. And then this is all a long, long route for me to ask you, if you, do you ever bike the bluer bike lane? Yeah. Okay.

What do you think? So here's where I got ticked at Brad Bradford, who again, has been on the show many times, comes out to events. We had that great Ellen's Weig battle there. at Palmer's Kitchen, I'll never forget. It's a highlight for me. But he, like when Doug Ford decided he would, what's that called?

What's it called when you, in, you, you know, he has the right, but it's, it's a municipal affair when it comes to bike lanes. Like, leave it to the city here. But, okay, regardless, he decides that all these bike lanes are being ripped out, including the bluer bike lane, which I use almost every day, and I have my kids on it, and I love it. I absolutely love that bluer bike lane. But Brad, they had some symbolic vote at Nathan Phillips Square.

City Hall where the counselors would vote whether they disapprove of this provincial measure or whatever. And Brad Bradford voted that he did not vote with many other counselors to say we disapprove it. He was fine with Doug Ford ripping up the bluer bike lanes. Pisses me out. I know he bikes a lot. I follow him on Strava for goodness sakes. but to me how short-sighted there's no alternative place to put it

because I know this geography like I know the back of my own hand but to rip up those bluer bike lanes is a mistake so what do you think of the bluer bike lanes should they be allowed to stay as they are or do you agree with Doug Ford that they should be ripped out I'm all riled up now okay all right I listen I don't think Doug Ford should be involving himself as much as he does in city business

first and foremost. Right. Okay. Second of all, I don't know. I don't, I live in North Toronto. And so I've never been on the blur. I mean, when I say the Bloor bike lane, I go, I go down to Young and Bloor, I go across to Bloor and then I go down Avenue Road.

Okay, so a little bit there. So like, I'm not out this far west. So, you know, I don't know how it performs. I can't actually say. I specifically and intentionally did not bring up bike lanes in my book because I noticed. I, there's no, I don't want to debate them. I don't want to. I don't think it's helpful.

What I will say is that you cannot have, from my perspective, you cannot have on a major arterial road. You cannot have patios, park cars, bike lanes, and then a road. You can't. Like, you have to make some choices. And if you're going to pick bike lanes, then you have to get rid of parking. Okay.

And I'm here to tell you, I don't need this bike lane on Bluer. If there was a parallel alternative, I'd be happy to bike that. Okay, I don't have to bike it on Bluer. But I'm in this part of the city, because you're in the West. now, you're in the West, the Wild West here.

Literally, you can go up to Egglington, which is quite a ways from Bluer, actually. Or you can go down to Queensway, which is a death trap unto itself. But really, you've got to get to where we are right now. You've got to get to the waterfront trail. Okay. This is why Blue is so important.

There's nothing else that's running east-west in the city, you know, over the Humber River that could be used as an alternative. There is no alternative. That's why the Bluer Bike Lane is so important. There you go. Okay.

Milan wants to know if. you're still following the CFL? I am. I am. And actually, there's a chapter, there's a sports chapter in the book, and I talk about the CFL, how it, and I hope its final chapter in Toronto isn't written, because it's one of the few sporting events that it's still

accessible to families, and it's a great product. Like, the CFL has a tremendous history, and the Toronto Argos have a tremendous history in the city. Like, their first games were like in 19, what, 18, at Rosedale Park, and like, it's just, it's an, it's an incredible story of, of,

Canada. And I, so I, yes, I still follow the CFL and I hope that it can find a way to become an important product for the city again. What I'm worried about with the CFL because I also love the Argos existing. They play now at BMO Field, of course, but Rogers owns them now. Yeah. I feel like they're like a, it's a line item. Well, and does MLSE own them along with everything else? We have the Rogers now owns, yeah, I think so, but Rogers now owns MLSE like fully. And it's too bad because again, when you look across the country, CFL performs quite well. And like, you mean like in Saskatchewan or...

Edmonton and Winnipeg and Edmonton. Edmonton. Right. Even Hamilton. Calgary. Hamilton too. Right. It's just Toronto.

And I'm like, oh. But, you know, like families get priced out of every other sporting event. They get priced out of baseball. They get priced out of hockey. They get priced out of basketball. Yeah, you're right. And so if you're, you want to take your family of four to see a live event, a live sporting event, CFL.

Yep, and this, you're right, you're 100% right, but this is where I must remind everybody that Christy Pitt. Christy Pitts, the price is right. You got an all-star batting second in that lineup, former rookie of the year. So, okay, and here, this is Brett Lamb, who great artist, Brett Lamb, okay? Brett Lamb wants to know, and I looked into this, but I'll just, I'll ask it anyways, because it's fair.

Is your lawn still artificial turf he wants to know, and you want to know if you still think that's acceptable now that there's increasing climate change consequences. I think that artificial turf is 100% acceptable. And no, I don't have it in my backyard anymore because I've moved houses, but I have no issues with artificial turf, and I don't think that there's an argument

about the environment that should prevent people from putting artificial turf on their front lawn. In California, it's actually very widespread because it doesn't require watering, and watering is an important thing to not do in California. I don't water my lawns. I'm here to tell you. I honestly, I've never watered my lawn.

But maybe that's why it looks the way it looks. So I don't have a, I'm not, I haven't done enough research to even debate you on this. But I did, I realize you got, I guess, some bylaw infraction because you can't have a lawn in this city. You can't legally have a lawn in this city that's artificial turf. Is that right? Something like that. There's, so no, actually, it's, well, it's bizarre. The bylaw as it's currently written is quite bizarre.

And that it doesn't define artificial turf. as a permitted use or discourage it as a non-permitted use. Where the bylaw says is that it's non-permeable. But if you can demonstrate that it's permeable, then it's in a very vague area. Okay. So the water drains from this thing, right? Yeah, okay.

I don't know. I feel like there was a guy across the street from where I live right now who did a front lawn that was artificial turf and he had to change it. Like he got a ticket from a bylaw officer, a Toronto bylaw officer, and he had to change it. And I remember at the time thinking, oh, I guess you can't do that. This was the full extent of my research on the subject,

because I got these lawns, and I do mow them periodically. I mowed it last week, but I've never owned a sprinkler. Wow. Is that a, you know, Mother Nature, and I think it might be doing it right now. There's no windows down here. For all we know, because I saw that, I heard thunder before you showed up. Yeah, it did rain on the way over. Oh, it rained on your way, because it hadn't rained.

here yet. Not a lot. Not a lot. Maybe it's raining right now. Hey, speaking of the environment, and again, I haven't done my research into artificial turf and climate change. I have to do that research.

But I do know that if you have old electronics, old cables, old devices, Karen, don't throw them in the garbage. No. Those chemicals end up at our landfill. This is what I learned. But you can go into, go to recyclemyelectronics.

com, and put in your postal code and find out where you could drop that off to be properly recycled. Yes. Are you done? And now the book is a great guide. I'm glad Brad's reading it. I would love for Olivia to read it.

I think everybody, all these policymakers, all politicians should be required reading. I have Amber Morley coming over soon. I'll tell her to read this. I was going to say I should have brought another copy. I'll sell her that copy. Okay, you can tell her that copy.

And I'll send you another one. The next time I'll, The next time I see you, I'll bring another one. Are you done with political life? Like, will you ever run for public office again? No. You're sure? Yes.

Okay. I believe you. You look like you're being very honest with me right now. So I'm going to read the little spiel on this book here. It says, Beyond Good Enough argues that this promise was never, okay, sorry. Okay, right. We talk about amalgamation in 98. Where is it here?

Okay. So with the October 26 municipal election fast approaching, Beyond Good Enough is a must read for policymakers, urban planners, business leaders, students, and civically engaged citizens alike. It provides the framework for informed, urgent contributions to the conversations that will shape Toronto's future. Part civic critique, part policy roadmap, and part call to action. Stints challenges leaders and citizens to reject mediocrity, reclaim their ambition, and speak up for the Toronto they want. I'm telling you, now I want to run through a wall.

Okay, are you sure you're not running for 2026 to be mayor in 2026? Yes, I am. I'm very sure that that is not my path forward. How should people get a copy of this book? And when exactly is this book available? Like, I see there's a copy beside me, but I also just read, oh, is it available now? September 15th. September 15th, yeah.

So people can pre-order and they can pre-order on Amazon or if they want to shop Canadian, they can pre-order on Indigo. And if you go to Indigo, you actually can see the first couple chapters. There's excerpts from the first couple chapters that people can read to get a flavor of the book. And the delivery of the online orders is September 15th, and that's when it will also be available in print version in the stores. And on the back of the book, I see it's endorsed by a dear friend of mine, another FOTM. You're now an FOTM friend of Toronto Mike, but Steve Pagan. Yes. Yeah, Steve was very kind. And he read the book. And actually, caught some errors for me that I was able to fix.

Okay. And so that was great. Okay. No, this was great here. So last question, unrelated to anything we've talked about, but on our way out here is,

you know, you talked about your dad introducing you to like operas and stuff, like really cultured stuff. Yeah. Like, so when you're chilling out, like, I don't know,

you're walking the dog or you're like, I need some tunes or whatever. What kind of music does Karen Stints listen to? Oh, I'm a 102.1. Okay. Alternative listener. Alt rock.

Okay. And because you're, You get it maybe a couple years on me, but similar vintage. Are you into, like, Canadian alt rock of the 90s? Like, are you into Sloan? Like, I'm no, I'm more tragically hip, the Smiths. Okay, so you go back to, like, spirit radio stuff with the Smith and stuff like that. The cure?

No, no cure. What about Depeche Mode? I'm just going to start naming some. Yeah, it's like I'm okay on Depeche Mode, but, you know. Okay, but you're tragically hip tan. Yeah. Me too. I have a copy of Road Apples right here.

There you go. Okay, Karen, how was this for you? Your Toronto Mike debut. It was great. Thank you very much, Mike. No, thank you. We're going to take a photo by the Toronto tree, and I'm going to get your lasagna before you go.

Awesome. I'm glad you're still out there cycling. Yep. Thank you. Okay. And Brett Lamb is glad you don't have artificial turf. He was really upset. He was really upset about my fake grass.

He's a hell of an artist, this Brett Lamb. I think he's a very talented individual. but he's blaming you for the forest fires, I think. Oh, dear. We're in a climate crisis here. Oh. My goodness. It's a lot of power.

I didn't know I had. All right, everybody, get Karen's book Beyond Good Enough, Toronto, in the Crisis of Urban Complacency. And that brings us to the end of our 1,949th show, 1949. Terrible year for, what's the name of that ship again? Hold on. I want to get the name right. My goodness gracious. The ship.

I deleted it. Oh, no. I know. S.S. Minow. No, it was terrible, though. Lots of great people died. I'm sure. I'm so sorry to hear that.

1949. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your... Noronic. The SS Noronic. Rhymes of Moronic. Okay. Go to Torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible.

That is Great Lakes Brewery. Palmapasta. Remember, I got your lasagna. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Nick Iini's, who's going to be talking to Karen in a week or so. Recycle MyElectronics.ca. And of course, at Ridley Funeral Home, you've got your measuring tape. Measure what you will.

I'm going to go to my calendar and find out who's up next. Okay, this is cool. We got longtime Toronto Star Raptors journalist Doug Smith. We got to talk about Kauai. What's going on? I got a lot of questions about the on hold Kawhi Leonard trade.

So Doug Smith will be in the basement for the first time. His first time on Toronto Mike D was a Zoom. He's going to be here in the basement. Julie Neff is a great musician from Montreal and she's going to drop by. That'll be cool. See you all. Then.