Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Keegan Matheson: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1706

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

In this 1706th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Keegan Matheson, Blue Jays reporter for MLB.com, about The Franchise that is the Toronto Blue Jays. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Yes We Are Open, Nick Ainis and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

The snow is certainly eased up considerably. It's just the white stuff on the field that's the problem. Let's see how well they do. The first man coming up is Ralph Gar, the left fielder for the White Sox. He's hit 300 or better in four of his six seasons in the major leagues. A 300 average in 1976. So Bill Singer will face a tough hitter left-hander Ralph Gahm. And one of the fastest pace runners in the American League. Here it is the first pitch in Blue Jays history. It's a spike for the first ball. That ball has been exchanged and will go to the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame.

The Canadian Sports Hall of Fame. Welcome to episode 1706 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta! Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Yes We Are Open!

An award-winning podcast from Monaris! Hosted by FOTML Grego. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Be at Christie Pitts tonight, June 6th for the first Friday Night Lights game of the season. RecycleMyElectronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. Building Toronto's skyline, a podcast and book from Nick Aini's, sponsored by Fusion Corp, Construction Management Inc, and Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921.

Joining me today, returning to Toronto, Mike, it's Keegan Matheson. Welcome back Keegan. Thank you for having me Mike. What is this four, five, six? I don't know but I want to give you kudos off the top. Are you comfortable receiving kudos? I have 1% of that left in me after this week. One more, one more. Alright, I just had Pagan over for his accident interview and everybody's praising him because the agenda is coming to an end at the end of the month. And he said it's like attending his own funeral, like people say nice things about you and you've had a good week.

Okay. So I want the listenership to know I was at your book launch yesterday and I witnessed firsthand your adoring public coming out, taking photos with you, getting an autograph. You have a new book out, so tell me about this event last night and the name of your new book. The name of the new book, the franchise, Toronto Blue Jays curated history of the Toronto Blue Jays. If you wrote the book of course it's curated. Curated by me. A curator sounds very fancy, almost as fancy as an author. Like is it supposed to come come from I don't know Mount

Sinai or something but the the event last night was the official launch of it and we had that at Sportsnet Grill inside the Toronto Marriott City Center which some of you might know just the Windows restaurants out in left field but I love that space it was the perfect place to do it we were overlooking the field they took incredible care of us and it was fun. Man, the afternoon going in, I was full-blown anxiety attacked. Does anybody come to these things? Like how do we... I know this feeling. And it's all of these events that we're lining up for signings and events, there's always some form of the question like, so how many people do you think will come? Right. Which is a veiled way of asking like how many people like you.

And I don't know. So I was very anxious going there. And then I lifted my head up and the line was up out the door. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, no, I took a photo. There were actual people. They didn't look like paid actors. No.

And what I noticed, what I took note of is how young your fan base was. Maybe it's because I'm a I just turned. I say I just turned 50 and somebody will call me out that it's been almost a year since I turned 50. So that's not I just turned 50, but I am 50. And I think everybody's my age. Like this is a weird phenomenon. When you think everybody is like, Oh, remember the nineties? And it's like, I wasn't born in the nineties. Okay. But I noticed that you had a like a youth contingent of Blue Jay Fanatics who were so excited to meet

you and to buy your book and have you sign it. That part's cool and it's because I think when a lot of people think baseball they think older crowd who's been around for a while but that that means a lot to me to see younger people excited about the game and it's a different level of fandom too. It's a different type of fandom. I find the younger fans are about the game and it's a different level of fandom too. It's a different type of fandom. I find the younger fans are much more interested and much more in love with players and personalities. And that's a good thing. I really think that is a good thing.

I got a couple of them. I'm not wearing them right now. I should be. I will be on some TV hits and going back to the games, a couple of little friendship bracelets with the franchise written across it. So they were customized for me. Amazing. But it's, that meant the world to me, man. Like seeing people come out for it. Um, it's, you know, the book isn't free. People's time is not free. It was just, uh, really humbling and I did not think it would be like that. Uh, it shocked me in the very best of ways. So congrats to you not only on your successful event yesterday, even though I noticed I couldn't

get a Great Lakes beer there, but I'm just nitpicking now. Great Lakes has sent over some fresh craft beer for you Keegan to bring home with you today. This will be put to very good use after the week that's been. And your next book, whatever, I know people are like, let's talk about the next book, but you can do the book launch I that was a great location yesterday It's the first time I was ever at that sports net grill or whatever in a moment I'm gonna shout out FOTM's I chatted with at that event and then the two the two future FOTM's I confirmed

At your event, so I'm gonna shout that out in a moment But when you do put out your next book, I recommend having your launch at the GLB Brew Pub at Jarvis in Queens Quay. I was talking to our friend Troy the other day and I said I need to get down there. I'm really excited to go down there. And I'm like, I'm kind of back into being a beer guy. I was off beer for a while. It's just like, I was having some stomach problems, you know, aging quicker than I should. It turns out just the entire rest of my lifestyle was giving me a hard time, not the beer. And I was blaming the beer for it. But, um, man, I'm, uh, I was having a Canuck pale ale on a podcast the other day.

I'm excited for this Mexican lager here, especially. But, uh, yeah, I love, love our friends at GLB. That's not even an ad. I just, I love them. Well, it's an ad and it's the truth okay so I I see you're rocking a coffee right now so you just tell me when you're ready to switch to beer and then I'll crack mine with you so no rush I know you got to finish your coffee first here so I will tell you Keegan before I shout out the FOTMs I saw at your event and then this is gonna be all killer no filler we're gonna talk about the Blue Jays franchise and again congrats on the book some people who listen to this program struggle to read all killer, no filler. We're going to talk about the Blue Jays franchise. And again,

congrats on the book. Some people who listen to this program struggle to read a book and you wrote a book. Like how long did it take you to write the book? I signed the deal December 2023 at those winter meetings, which people know as the kind of the Otani winter meetings in Nashville. So it has been a year and a half and I'm not a patient person. So this has been difficult for me. I'm used to showing up at the ballpark writing my story, boom, it's online, people read it. And by the next day you forget it and you move on to the next game. It's not supposed to be but this has been long and slow by design but it's kind of changed the chemistry of my brain a lot with this job.

It means a lot more to me than I thought it would. I did not go into it thinking that it would have that impact on me. And I thought it was a way to write a book. You make $10, maybe $11 if you're lucky. And- I thought you lose money when you write a book. Yeah, just if I calculated out the daily average, probably. But, and added in the bar tabs, but it's, man calculated out the daily average probably, but and added in the bar

tabs, but it's, uh, man, it's been a gift, but it's been a long, long, long process. Wrote it throughout last season while I was covering the team, which in hindsight would not recommend it's a, it's a lot all at once. But then throughout the off season, the long process of editing, cleaning it up, designing marketing, uh, and then more recently more of that marketing which I'm not used to. I prefer to just have my name and a tiny, tiny face atop a story and that's it. But this has been a little more involved.

Well, it's more than just an appearance on Toronto Mic. There's a lot of Keegan action and all the Keegan heads came out yesterday for your book launch. So I did want to reward you with a large frozen lasagna that's in my freezer and that's courtesy of Palma Pasta. And I'm gonna, you know, you mentioned you want to check out the GLB Brew Pub. So the next TMLX, which is TMLX 19 is happening very soon.

It's June 26, which is a Thursday night. And that's at the Great Lakes Brewery, which is South Etobicoke. Keegan, any chance you could make it? Bring your girlfriend, bring anybody you want because Palma Pasta will feed you your first beers on the house. People want to see you.

Could you make TMLX 19 on June 26th? I hope I can. Let me make sure that I didn't triple quadruple book myself. But if you're available, you'll make it. I've been trying to make these TLMXs. I think the last few, I had a couple last year that ran up against a game. Once I, I want to make these TLMXs. I think the last few, I had a couple last year that ran up against a game.

Once I, I want to get into the fun again. It's been, it's been a couple of years since I got the one. So anything at GLB. Well, here's the thing. So that's the brewery, which is South Etobicoke, not to be confused with the brew pub, which is Jarvis and Queens Key. But I will have an event at the brew pub

in like late September, early October. I got to nail down the date, but that would be a great opportunity for you to experience the brew pub with a bunch of great FOTMs. So maybe we'll do like both of these things. I like it. If it's early October, I might be free. We'll see. I think you will be. All right. So at your event yesterday, these are the FOTMs I chatted with you. Ready? Julia Cruz. do you know this woman? I've heard of her. I've heard of that nuisance. Yeah, she's a man. I did in studio with her

on Jay's Talk Plus the other day and she's I've been saying it for a long time that she's one of the most gifted people I've ever met. But I think a lot of other people are figuring that out now. I love it. Well, lest we forget, she came on Toronto Mikes because she was in your car as you returned from spring training in Dunedin. And then I don't even know if she was ready, but we kind of threw her into the fire and said, you're on the mic now. That was a long time ago now, but she lived with you for a while, right?

Yeah, we lived together in a place near Trinity Bellwoods, moved in before the pandemic, through the pandemic for a couple of years. And yeah, no, we've been tied at the hip. She's right next to me in the press box, stuck to my right every day and I'm very lucky for that. You should have her on here for her own. I would. She is... I had a great chat with her. She speaks more languages than I speak words. She is probably the smartest person I know and she's wasting it on sports. It's terrible. And she left you for her wife, is that right? Yeah, I officiated their wedding. It was my big debut. One time only. I had some requests after that.

Do you do these normally? But I mean, I didn't even know you were accredited like how did you get accredited? Thankfully, I did not have to do the official. Oh, I officiated the ceremony and I helped with signing of some things but yeah, my dad's a minister So I channeled the the family bloodlines. I saw your dad yesterday. Yeah, and Your mom. Yeah, the family got a lot of great support there. Yeah, that was wonderful seeing them there My little sister was up from Nova Scotia. She she's really country. She barely ever leaves our street Let alone our town. So it was it was really nice having them there Wow Okay

shadow to a few more FOTM's and I won't spend as much time on all these wonderful people as I did with Julia there but Ben Nicholson Smith was there and he's he's great. He reminded me he biked here when he made his Toronto Mike debut. And I filled up his tire with air. Like I got all paternal when I saw how soft his tires were. But it was great to see Ben. Gregor Chisholm was there. He's with the Toronto Star now. But you basically took his gig at MLB.com.

Am I right with my? That's right, yeah. It happened at that time. Rich Griffin moved from star to blue jays Communications Gregor Chisholm from MLB to the star and me to MLB. Yeah from baseball Toronto. Yeah How could I get Gregor? I was his his intern. We had a fancier word for but his intern essentially in 2017 Yeah, he's a new bronze hooker. I'll try not to hold it against him Blake Murphy was there. I love it. So how do you know Blake I know how you know him but

how close are you to Blake Murphy? Very I love Blake and he is to be able to do what he does on both Raptors and Blue Jays is ridiculous and I hope people appreciate how much talent and my god how much time that takes for him. By the time I get to an offseason I'm ready to collapse and not talk to anybody for six months. I don't think he has one. So another East coaster as well from Newfoundland and man, I love Blake. Amazing.

Rob Longley was there from the Toronto Sun. Hey, we call him a half Maritimer. His mom's out in Nova Scotia. So he's, we'll give him 51%. You walk amongst us. I need to know who are these Maritimers. I need to know. Okay, Tim Langton was there.

Yeah, absolutely. Of course he was already there, but he just popped in. Shout out to Tim Langton, a PA announcer for the Toronto Blue Jays at the dome. And Blake Bell was there. Blake Bell has been on the program because he came on the mic during one of my live recordings at Christie pits pause, because I have a book for you. You're going to give me a book and I'm going to give you a book on the mic during one of my live recordings at Christie pits. Pause because I have a book for you. You're going to give me a book and I'm going to give you a book on the history of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Okay. And Keegan, uh, heads up on my YouTube channel. I,

you can see video of me throwing out the first pitch. Oh, you saw it form. Some real good form. Nice high leg kick in there. I wanted to do it for real. I was shout out to Blake Bell. I was channeling my inner Dave Steeb. Love it. And we're gonna get back to Dave Steeb but I basically agreed with Blake and he's got a partner named Len and they they maintain the today in Dave Steeb history account that I follow on. Blue Sky. Which is amazing. Which is amazing. So good. Like it's not just tweeting hey Dave Steeb's great like they have so much incredible like archival videos and stories

Newspaper Fergie Oliver talking to Dave back in whatever 1986 or whatever. It's a we agree. It's an amazing account Yeah, and I told Blake I want him and Len in the basement for a Dave Steve episode But I'm gonna save my Dave Steve talk for later when we get back to your book. So I'm going to just shout out two people I met for the first time who agreed that they should visit the basement and become FOTMs. Okay. These are the two names. Calib Joseph. All right. So we've already texted today. He's a, I think in July, he's going to make his debut and a JD bunkus. There we go.

So there's a couple of big sports media names. I love it. For the Jays heads out there. Okay, so tell me, I was lucky enough to get an advance PDF copy of your book and I was reading it, but tell me in your words for those listening, because you know, Father's Day is coming up and there's always a million good excuses out there

if you wanna buy a good excuses out there if you want to buy a good baseball book for somebody you know who loves baseball but what is your book the franchise about is it is it just about the history of Toronto Blue Jays baseball since 77 I played that clip off the top which was the first pitch in Blue Jays history the book covers the whole history of the team so you're gonna touch on every single era, but I had to be picky. So what I landed on was that this is a book about why you give a damn about the Blue Jays, why people care about this team. If I was to write a history book without

the word curated, this book would suck, it would be very long, it would probably be 10 books, nobody would want to read it. There could have been so many wasted chapters of, you know, after this year they treated this guy for this guy. At a certain point I had to accept, okay, I can't touch every single thing. I need to be picky. So when I go back to the original years at Exhibition Stadium, what interests me? What two or three things really interest me? When I think of faces of this franchise, this organization, okay what five, six, seven people really interest me. And then beyond that it was a matter of balancing chapters I thought I had to write,

because you have to write about Joe Carter, you have to write about Baptista, those great mid-80s teams, and balancing that with new things. Because if this book was only about the history of the team, well, who cares? Those books have been written, and I wanted to add something. So I hope that at least several of these chapters are new and fresh. That includes Shohei Otani, that includes the COVID years, that includes some chapters about players' lives around the city

coming to Canada to play for this team and some broadcaster chapters. I loved writing about Tom Cheek, Jerry Howarth, the chapter on Allison Gordon, which I really enjoyed writing and then one on Dan Schulman, one on Buck Martinez at the end. The Buck chapter might be my favorite in the whole book but I wanted things that added to what's out there because I don't view this book as just like here it is it's the book about the Blue jays. God, no, there have been other books written about this team. There are going to be more books.

There have been 2000 stories a year written about this team, but I want to add to that. And this, I think I landed in the right place with at least the idea execution. I'll leave that up to everyone else. But I think in terms of trying to balance it and being a little picky was the right way to do it instead of stretching it too thin too shallow. All right I have some hard-hitting questions you might you might not get on sports now right but I do want to read a quote from Buck Martinez he says that your book is a terrific read that's a direct

quote from Buck Martinez. Direct. I paid these people a lot of money on the back here Buck was Buck was more than kind with his time, but not only for his chapter, but giving me some quotes for the book, reading through it. Buck's amazing. Could you help me get the legend that is Buck Martinez on Toronto Mic'd? We got to do it. I'll see if I can grease the wheels. I would love if Shulman's been on a couple of times, you know, how worth has been on. I can tell you Buck would love it.

And here's the maybe the the cincher here is that Buck Martinez, his son attended my primary school at the same time that I was at this primary school. Shout out to St. Pius the 10th. I love it. That's a fact. You can drop that on the the Buster. He is writing this book and because Buck and I were friends, we're around each other all the time, but when

you write a chapter about someone in a book like this, it gives you an excuse to let it fly a bit more and ask things you normally wouldn't ask. And God, I loved writing that chapter. It's the very last one in the book. Well, and we're gonna hear from Tom Cheek and Jerry Howard throughout this chat because I actually pulled some choice radio calls that call off the top was a television call by Don Chevrier from April 7, 1977. I'm going to play another clip from Tom Cheek on that day.

But we're going to hear it'll be nice to hear some Tom and Jerry as we kind of talk because you curated the content from the history of this team for your book, which I thoroughly enjoyed, but I've curated your curation, but I mentioned a hard hitting question. Okay. So the hard question is how do you strike a balance? Cause you mentioned there are the names you have to talk about Joe Carter, Roy Halliday, Carlos Delgado, Dave Steeve, Cito Gaston. These are names you have to talk about, but there is a name you have to talk about who, let's face it, his name was ripped from the level of excellence at the dome and he's persona non gratis at anything to do with major league baseball. But how, I guess

you like what, how was your thought process with regards to possibly debate debatably the greatest position player in the history of the Toronto Blue Jays, two-time World Series champion, Roberto Alomar. I had to think about that one early in the process in terms of how I'd address Alomar, how I would include him or exclude him. And that was early on when I was still figuring out how do you curate this thing. How, and that decision process took, it was more of a process of having the confidence to say, okay, I won't include this chapter, I will include this. And I kind of had to hit a point of just, okay, screw it.

I'm allowed to. It's my book. I'm allowed to write about Carter, maybe not write about this guy, that guy, that guy. Sure. And when I came to, yeah, when I came to Alomar, I did did include there's about a page on him right at the front of one of the subsections here And when you get into let me remember what my own book is. I think he wrote there's a guy you were number 12 He hit a big homer against Eckersley yada yada yada Let's move on part number three faces of the blue chase just about a hundred pages in at the very beginning of that chapter The way I framed that was listen like these are the people on the level of excellence the Blue Jays, just about a hundred pages in. At the very beginning of that chapter, the way I framed that was, listen, like these are the people on the level of excellence.

There's a guy who used to be there, Roberto Alomar, and this is why he's not. Although when you say this is why he's not, you don't know, or maybe if you know you're not publicly, like we don't know why he's not. We just know there are people who know and have decided that we would agree. I don't know if I'm worrying that properly, but we don't know we just know he did something that is immoral Yeah, there were I'm trying to remember the year this Happened was 21 22 good covid has messed my years But due to the and I'll actually bring open the chapter here just so I can properly quote myself Yeah, quote yourself.

Where are we here? And again, we'll move on from Alomar, but you know, I figure, you know, they're not going to talk about Alomar, maybe on a sports net hit or whatever. I think it would be ridiculous to pretend like he didn't exist. 2021 and so it was 21 that's right. Coming out of COVID and the blue J's announced they were severing all ties and MLB placed them on the ineligible list. I was trying to remember ineligible or restricted and he was terminated.

Right now at that point, uh, they took him off of T 12, all of that. Um, took it away from Roger center as well. And those were due to the, the multiple allegations of sexual misconduct for Robbie Alomar. And MLB had its investigation. I don't know the proper wording if that was in cooperation with the blue J's or separately, but had their investigation before that decision was made due to those multiple allegations.

And that's after which he was decided to be scrubbed and wiped from Roger Center. And the decision I came to for the book was that I would it that needed to be said and acknowledged of course why and Beyond that I decided that listen if players bring him up and say Robbie was big to those teams I would let that quote ride no problem at all If players mentioned him in a sentence, so when Robbie and Joe came over in that trait, I'm not going to scrub that but beyond acknowledging why he was not in the book, I decided not to go further out of the way to tell more of his story. I have

written about the decision after those multiple allegations and the decision to terminate him, put him on that restricted list, but chose against giving him a chapter or a larger spot. That's about a page and a half at the just prior to that Dave, Steve chapter. When we get into the faces of the franchise, but it's something that had to be acknowledged, something I didn't want to go further on, but you have to acknowledge it. And again, when players, it's sprinkled through, I'm sure a dozen different spots

where players will say, Oh, Robbie's home run here, his play here. Let that role as it was, but otherwise didn't give him any more air time. And it goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, that in an alternate universe where he doesn't have these allegations against him, there's a big fat chapter on Roberto Alomar. Like, I can see this alternative version in a different galaxy and a different timeline where yeah you're celebrating who I believe to be the greatest position player in Blue Jay's history. There would be in a much much different timeline. So let's go back. Oh one more last thing on that note. So we talked about Roberto Alomar

that's the most famous case because like I said he's a Hall of Famer and he was on the level of excellence etc. when the two World Series but the other former Blue J who seems to now have been scrubbed not officially but I've noticed he's not really celebrated or talked about or invited to any events and I almost feel like the reasoning for this is so different than the reasoning for Roberto Alomar as far as I know but I'm talking about Kelly Gruber Gruber Yeah, so Gruber is another key key member of the 92 team anyway, and you know, he had that one monster season I don't know if it was 1990 or what it was But it was just a monster season with like 30 plus home runs hundred RBI's and batted over 300 huge season for him at third

base, but I'm wondering like Should we reassess? I feel like this is because he got inebriated and made misogynist cont comments to a woman hosting the pitch-talks event Yeah, and Gruber that that's another one where I decided he was not to the level of player for a chapter whatsoever for me Right, but when you go back to when he did make a fool of himself with some sexist comments. Said some stupid shit.

In front of people, which is layers of stupid. That's disappointing for a player that so many people love in a different way than you might love Joe Carter or something like that because I feel like for a lot of folks Gruber was like their guy from that era. And it was disappointing to see how that happened. And I have certainly no place for that, obviously, when you're dealing with people in public or in private. But Gruber is one that I really notice differently when I speak to people who Gruber is of their era.

You know, everyone has that guy who is, maybe they're not the best guy on the team, but they're third, fourth, fifth, and they really have that fan base. The sense I get is that in that era, Gruber was that guy, and that people really, really loved him as a ballplayer for his style and some of the peaks that he had.

But he's another through the book, I believe is, if you name search to maybe mentioned a couple of times as guys brought him up, uh, whether that be in plays or retellings of stories, but I don't think one that I gave any air to myself. No, I mean he was never going to make it to the level of excellence, but man, that was a monster year. He had, he had that one. Goodness. And he was a part of our 92 blue. Okay. So the rest of this chat,

Keegan will be less controversial. I feel like we're going to have a like a celebratory great chat and I'm going to bring us back to 1977. So I off the top, I played the first pitch. Do you know this a piece of history? I don't think everybody knows. We'll find out now. But do you know what happened to the first batter in Blue Jays history?

So you saw Bill Singer pitch to the leadoff batter for the Chicago White Sox. Do you know the result of that at bat? No, no, tell me. I just I watched the inning in its entirety and I actually didn't know what happened to the batter because we always know the first pitch was a strike. They took the ball, made it to the hall of fame, et cetera, et cetera. But Bill Singer walks that guy. And so the first batter for the White Sox takes first base on the walk here. But this happens later in that game. One ball, one strike, two Blue Jays down. All gets into one. This one's well hit.

Forget about it. It's a home run. That was way back there. First baseman Doug Ault has electrified this crowd at Exhibition Stadium. That one hit between the 375 foot power alley sign and the 400 foot straightaway center field side a tremendous shot and the first ever blue jade a hit one out is dug all so put a star by it and save your scorecard that too will become a collector's item has great audio great

audio and that's Tom Cheek and I think he was calling the game of early win. So this is before Jerry Howarth was with the franchise. You can hear a little early in there but maybe this is a good chance to because we will hear a little Tom Cheek and Jerry Howarth throughout but that first game in 77 I know I'm too young to have watched it. I was in I was a toddler but you are not even born yet Keegan. Not close not even an idea yet no. How old are you Keegan Matheson is that so? I was born in 90 so I was even kind of young to remember the World Series I can't

pretend that. I can't imagine you could remember 92 93 so no this would be like my memory would be that first Jays homer but Doug Ault would go on to hit two home runs in that game and he has a tragic side and to his his life gone too soon. Doug Ault. But maybe a word or two if you don't mind about Tom Cheek, the late great Tom Cheek. I loved talking to people about Tom Cheek and what he meant to that era. I think there's a special relationship between broadcaster and fans but especially the first broadcaster, the voice that introduces them to a team. And speaking, especially with Jerry, about the stories he would tell about he and Tom,

how different they were, but how much they complemented one another was incredible. And one of my favourite parts of this book was going back through archival Toronto Star or old footage of games and not just trying to get the retelling but trying to understand how it felt at the time and what people really felt and thought at the time instead of you know revising it 30 years later and I just it made me an even greater fan and gave me more appreciation of of Tom Cheek and what he meant so to to have Jerry be happy with that chapter really meant a lot to me and that was a special one to talk about that and listen to some of those

old calls. I love that call there. Yeah, tremendous shot. Great voice. Great, great voice. We will hear more Tom Cheek. We're going to hear more Tom Cheek than Jerry Howarth because I noticed a lot of these big moments where Tom Cheeks calls because he was the main play-by-play guy. And then Jerry Howarth went Tom. Well sadly we all know another sad end. So there is some sadness in the Toronto Blue Jays history as we talk it through here and Tom Cheek gone far far too soon and he's missed by every Blue J fan. That's without a doubt. So Keegan I've read the book and there's we're gonna again we're gonna at the end we'll get to show you Tony because I need to spend a little time on that but could we spend a little time talking about the gentleman in fact as we set it up I'm actually gonna play it I'm out of order now but

that's okay I'm gonna play a little more Tom Cheek here you go one ball one strike to Brown the pitch a swing and a fly ball right field junior Felix is there he He's done it. He's done it. Dave Steve has his no hitter. Dave Steve has his no hitter finally. He has done it here in Cleveland. He is being mobbed by his teammates. Dave Steve has pitched the first no hitter in Blue Jays history.

And we're still waiting for the second, but that's David Andrew Steve. Could you please chat with me a little bit about a man I believe 100% belongs in Cooperstown. He should be in the baseball hall of fame. That call is from four days before I was born. And I am not a young man for people watching the video of this. That's how long it's been. It's my whole lifetime since a no-hitter. And there's something mythical about no-hitters, especially in Toronto. And

Dave Steve fascinates me more than any baseball player who has ever played in this city. Dave Steve fascinates me because not only was he great, he often seemed like he was battling with greatness and battling in some way with the attention that came with it and I was so fascinated reading back through old magazine stories newspaper stories about Steve Not only how he was talked about but how he would talk about himself Like there are some Steve quotes from back in the 80s that I dug up to include in this. They're incredible and that paints the picture of someone who was trying to wrestle with his relationship with fame and the sport and you of course along the way get a lot of teammates saying like man he

never screwed up it was always us he had the evil eye most of them also said he softened with time and it's a different thing but it's I wish that we had a big chance to revisit the Steve Hall of Fame conversation I mean like in a formal way where a veterans committee with the Hall of Fame is considered. How do we do this I have a question because this came up yesterday at your event when I was chatting with Blake Bell and we talked about speaking of you know tragic sadness or whatever well we talked about how Tim Rains had a champion and how this spread or whatever and I'm legit curious because I'm going to do everything within my tiny little power okay I'm gonna do my part but how

do we get this what's the official process for getting Dave Steebe in the Hall of Fame so it would be through one of the they're called era committees with the Hall of Fame and it rotates through a few different eras so I'd have to check when the Steve era would be coming back around but we've we've seen this you know Fred McGriff I believe was through one of those committees but we've seen this come back around a couple of times and it would need to be discussed in one of those I believe Cito Gaston was part of a more recent one as well once again did not get enough consideration but Dave Stebe there's so many factors that go into this and some of them sound like Toronto

excuses but I don't believe they are it's if Dave Stebe had have played in the era of three wild cards we're having a different conversation because then he wins 20 playoff games and dominates on the big stage when everyone in New York and LA are watching. And he also came up on some crappy teams. This is going through 79 and 80, 81, 82. They weren't quite yet the mighty mid eighties Blue Jays. No. So that was a factor as well. And if Steve had had a bigger stage, if he had pitched on some good teams right out of the blocks, because back then wins mattered more.

We were not looking at his horizontal break on his slider or whatever stuff we pretend to know to sound smart these days. Right. You looked at wins and innings and maybe a little bit of strikeouts, but Steve is such a, he's a modern pitcher. I think he could pitch today. And I loved talking to the pitchers who caught him most, speaking to Ernie Witt about him, speaking to Buck about him. The moment I said Dave Steeves name to Buck Martinez, he cut me off and he said,

best pitcher the Blue Jays ever had. And this is a franchise that's had Roy Halliday and some great, great pitchers. But I would say that contest is between two people. Like that, I don't think if you got a hundred baseball fans and say best starter in blue, best pitcher in blue J history, it's gonna be a debate between Roy Halliday and Dave Steele. Totally.

So I get that. I gotta point one more thing out. Maybe this is the effect of me co-hosting a show with Mark Hebbscher for five years, okay? I miss Hebbsy on sports. I'm just throwing that into the universe. So shout out to Hebbser for five years, okay? I miss Hepsey on sports. I'm just throwing that into the universe. Shout out to Hepsey. But when I talked to people who covered baseball,

and I talked to a lot of them, Larry Milson and Dave Perkins, you know, I talked to all these, these people who covered Blue J baseball in the 80s, and to a T, they all will tell you that Dave Steeve was not an easy guy to get along with like he wasn't media friendly and the reporters like Hepsey had difficult very difficult times with him where he may even be a bit of an asshole mm-hmm that I believe has worked against him in his pursuit of Cooper's town absolutely I have a lot of issues with Hall of Fame voting.

To the point where in a few years I'll get a Hall of Fame vote, I don't know how I feel about that. It's something I'm actually going to think about. And I have an even bigger problem with this weird phenomenon where it turns into a grandstanding couple of weeks of here's my story on my ballots. I'm like, okay are we trying to do the best possible job here or are we all trying to have a moment in the sun? I don't like it how it works. I also don't have a better solution, which I should, but it's flawed. And the human element does come into that. I think we saw that with Carlos Delgado as well. But with Steve, when

you have a rep for being bad with writers, it's hard to recover from that. That does tilt some coverage. That does especially get around. Writers, all we do is sit around and chat with each other and gossip. There's lots of time, word gets around if you're an asshole. And for Steve especially,

there's a lot of different ways to be an asshole or have some edge about you. You know, it's looking back, guys like Jose Bautista, he had all the edge in the world. He's all edges. Sure. But his was more of a swagger than he had. And every once in a while, he knew when to wink at the camera.

He wasn't a dick. Your first evidence is that he sat down with me last June and chatted me up on my little podcast. There we go. And he had that swagger and the, the feel for it. So many of the stories I hear about Steve are a little further in the other direction where it was abrasive that will get around that will hurt your chances. And it's a, it's a human voted process, which by its very nature is flawed. Right. Right.

I also want to shout out another great blue J reporter from back in the day who's been down here to tell me many a story, but I very nature is flawed. Right. Right. I also want to shout out another great BlueJay reporter from back in the day who's been down here to tell me many a story, but I got to shout out Bob Elliott from the Toronto Sun. Got to make sure I do that. Hey, so you've seen, I know you've seen the Captain Ahab, John Boyce. Yeah, amazing. It's amazing.

So, you know, as much as we're pushing the wonderful blue sky account, and I think it's also on X, although I haven't been on X in a long time, but the day day this day in Dave Steve history we we promote that but we also find the John Boyce and that's how you say his last name right boys I've only ever read it so yeah I've only ever read it okay I never know if that s is silent but okay find it and here's a little fun fact from it okay so Dave Steve as you, Keegan Matheson from history books, because you were very young, but an or unborn, I should say, Dave Steve

lost two no hitters in two consecutive starts. And both times, the Blue Jays were two outs and there was two outs and two strikes in the ninth. So that's 8.2 innings of no hitter by Dave Steve. And he's got two strikes on the batter. This happened two consecutive starts. Obviously both times he lost the no-no. There was that one bad bounce and geez, what a time. I'm so glad Dave Steeb finally got his no-hitter. But according to John Boyce in this wonderful YouTube documentary, I highly endorse. The mathematical odds of that happening, you know, two starts in a row going, you know, eight and two eight point two innings and having two strikes on the batter. One in two hundred and forty one million. Amazing. So just take that in for a

minute because I had a blood clot in my brain Keegan and it was like they said one in a million and I was thinking, oh oh my god like it's like winning the wrong lottery this is quite something one in two hundred and forty one million it's all part of the legend you know that he was tortured before this all happened it's it's why everyone's still chasing him you know it's my I wrote the Mountain Francis story twice last year of him. He almost made it to Dave Steeve,

but it's so many organizations now have six or eight or 10 or 20 no hitters. It seems like we're seeing them fairly regularly in baseball. But now it's not, now what I dislike as a guy, a fan from the 80s and 90s is this, five of us combined on the no hitter. Like I miss the good old days. The starter finishes his no hitter or rare doesn't have

as much. I do want to shout out. We talked about Roy Halliday for a moment, but I do want to shout out the game I attended. It was the last game of the season and I was there and I witnessed Roy Halliday taken no, no, no no-no 8.2 innings. So he had two outs in the ninth, if a no-no against the Tigers. And I was there and I remember telling my buddy, I said, oh my God, I'm gonna witness a no-hitter. Oh my God, I'm gonna witness this.

It's gonna be the second no-hitter in Blue J history. Bobby Higginson takes Halliday deep and you know this, but who do you think ends up with that ball in their glove in the bullpen? who do you think ends up with that ball in their glove in the bullpen? Who do you think? Oh, who was it? I actually I've read this. I know this some you knew it I'm gonna remind you you ready. Yeah, his name is Dave Stebe. Oh, that's shit. That's right. That's the legend. Yeah This is fact. I've seen the video evidence Yeah, so Dave Steve in the bullpen because he came back as a reliever

He was yeah, he's in the bullpen which for me is one of the most interesting stories in Jay's history. We talked about I mean I actually joked we have a not so secret WhatsApp group for FOTM's and I said okay Keegan Matheson is coming over we're gonna talk about Dave Steebe for 90 minutes and my tongue was in my cheek but I honestly could do it but I'm gonna save it for Blake and Len when they come over but the fact that a he's he's drafted as an outfielder like he if you think about the fact Dave Steebe wasn't this pitching phenomena drafted as an outfielder, like if you think about the fact Dave Steve wasn't this pitching phenom, he was an outfielder

who was converted to pitcher, and in a very short period of time becomes the ace of the Blue Jays. Everything is unbelievable. And then you know how he comes back as a reliever. The comeback's amazing. I talked to a lot of guys about that. I think it was Pat Henken I talked to about that.

And the stories in the book it's it's a little fried in my mind but I think Steve maybe used his cleats that day or something but they were just you know they saw him in in spring training and he was sawing guys off and he couldn't throw it straight anymore and one day Steve just kind of grumbled to them he's like all right I'm gonna go throw a bullpen and these guys and that's when Roger Clemens was around too and it's just what a story man like after that many years guys and that's when Roger Clemens was around too and it's just what a story man like after that many years away that that's we won't see

something like that again period. So the Dave Steve story it's unbelievable I can't believe we got to witness that and my objective maybe it's my calling in this life is to do whatever I can to amplify this messaging to the right people and get Dave Steve in Cooperstown. I like it. Okay. So again, jumping around because hey, that's how we roll. But I would be remiss if I didn't play a certain call from the aforementioned legend, Tom Cheek.

He works to Hasse. There's a swing and a fly ball left field. Bella's there. He's got it. The Blue Jays have done it. They have won the East. They have won the East. They have won the East. George Bell catching the ball and dropping to his knees. A mob scene out around second base as Doyle Alexander is mobbed by his teammates. Here come the outfielders in.

They will be met by their mates and this mammoth crowd that has come screaming down out of the seats now. Somebody takes George Bell's cap. He wants it back. He takes it back. And the Blue Jays and Doyle Alexander are going to be ushered off the field by their adoring public. Alexander with his cap off being carried by the throng down there on the field. There you go the drive

of 85 again I've got 15 years on you Keegan. I loved the 85 Blue Jays. Yeah those rosters back then I wish there were more wild card spots I wish it was the modern MLB structure and if I could rewrite Blue Jays history it's those were a handful of the all-time all-time all-time great teams top five Blue Jays teams of all time and it was just so damn hard to get to the World Series back then. It meant something I feel like I'm with you right I'm with you then at the same time I'm like now you had to win the AL East. Yeah, you can, because now when I hear teams talking about just trying to get into the playoffs,

no, shut up, win the division, try to win the division. And I feel like that's accepted too much around Toronto. Oh golly, the third wild card spot again, come on. Half the league gets in. So I see it from both sides. It's becoming like NHL now. And I don't know where I land on it, but I just wish that back then there had been more

Space back like prime Dave Steve pitching in like a clinching game. Come on, man He sure but in 85 didn't he get the start in game seven against the Kansas City Royals, right? And I'm again, I don't want to remind people Jim Sundberg in his bases loaded triple shadow to Shout out to Al Oliver though, Scoop, because he was a former expo. And I'm going to, I said the word expo, so I just want to just tell you that on the live stream, live.torontomike.com, a bunch of people tuned in

to witness this moment in time, the recording of this episode of Toronto Mike. I just want to shout out Moose Grumpy, who loves that in your book, you recognize the broadcasters too. Like it's not just about the players. She appreciates that. But I want to just point out that Leslie Taylor

is on the live stream. She says the Otani story was bonkers. So I think we'll close with the Otani story actually. But Leslie's dad, well before our time, but Leslie's dad was Russ Taylor with the Expos. And when I had Jim Van Horn on this program, Toronto miked a great, one of the big reasons why Tom cheek ended up in Toronto for 77 season is a recommendation from Russ Taylor and Tom Cheeks experience with the Expos.

Russ Taylor would be calling Expos game with Dave Van Horn. I love it. I said Dave, right? Cause I'm saying in my head, did I say Jim Van Horn? You might have. Okay. You know what? I think I was jumbling them myself. I was trying to do math here, but Jim Van Horn is a fake name. Yeah. Dave Van Horn is a real name. Okay. But Jim Van Horn is not a Jim Van Horn, although a shout out to FOTM Jim Van Horn, but Dave Van Horn is who I hope I'm speaking about from the Expos and his experience of Tom Cheek and Dave Van Horn is who I hope I'm speaking about from the expose and his experience of Tom cheek and Dave Van Horn, helpful getting Tom cheek, that, uh, blue Jays job. I love it.

But I want to shout out Russ Taylor from the expose who definitely belongs in the Canadian baseball hall of fame, along with Rob Butler from Toronto may believe, uh, he's got, he's the coach of that team right now. So I'm sure I got most of those facts, right? If not Leslie's on the live streaming can correct me because sometimes I get it 80% right, but okay. So 85 J is finally win the panic. Could you just spend a moment chatting with me

about that outfield because I have an old shoppers drug mart calendar hanging on the wall over here and I've kept it frozen. This is, I think 1986 is calendar place. I've got it frozen on May because that was George Bell's month in this calendar and I love George Bell. But can we spend a moment talking about that outfield of Lloyd Mosby, Jesse Barfield and George Bell? Amazing and I'm just pulling up their stats because I want to see all of their stats from

that specific season too. Which one? 85? From 85, like as I'm pulling these guys up. But looking at, they're complementing styles of play as well. Like you had the incredible speed and most of you had the incredible power. I was like, I loved last night at the book launch, I had so many people because I had some stacks of baseball cards there just to give out his bookmarks. And so many people were all over the Jesse Barfields.

Like he had the super fans out. Well he had that cannon for an arm and people remember in right field he would throw a strike. But yeah that's even the season that I was curious. Mosby had 18 home runs himself, Barfield 27, Bell 28, but I was looking for the steals that season. Yeah all over 20 steals, Mosby had 37 that year. I was looking for the speed between all of them like such incredible athletes and coming up together like a young outfield like that is the dream and especially age almost yeah and the Blue Jays I mean they haven't developed an outfielder in forever it's a weird weakness of this organization now is it Vernon Wells who had no head Shannon

Stewart who I kind of yeah Vernon Wells but they've developed a lot of guys who have come up and kind of been around But in terms of like a face it's been infielders You know, but that outfield is wild to me so much just raw Talent in that outfield and at those ages, they're all hitting their prime at the exact same time going through the mid-20s I just man another thing. I just wish they had of gotten a couple more cracks together because what a group What a group and the final game in Exhibition Stadium. We didn't call it a walk-off back then We didn't have this and there's no manclature

But George Bell ended it with a home run and I recorded that game to VHS and I still not that I could play it But I have the VHS cassette around the corner. But here's another moment from George Bell. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto, Mike. There you go. Ice number 11 here and a shorter amount of time. So that's sort of like that's a big time for young Mike. And I think a lot of people my age that drive of 85, you know, we went

we had a three one lead in the ALCS against the I won't talk about what happened I mentioned the Jim Sundberg thing, but if we're gonna talk about heartbreak, I just want to spend a moment because FOTM Gare Joyce made of a tremendous audio documentary entitled the fall of 87 and Because it was deleted by Rogers and was no longer in their podcast feed I basically just went rogue and said I'm dropping it in my feet because I want to share this. It's so good I just went rogue don't tell right there not listening right now Rogers it wasn't it wasn't me. I'm like shaggy over here

But a moment though on what I think again Speaking to fellow Gen X errs who love the blue Jays, that 87 collapse I'm still kind of haunted by it. That's the one that makes people cringe if you were fans of that era. That's like the the the team you do not mention. You know and I don't think this current era of Jays fans has something that close. So for a lot of folks it's kind of 2021 that great team that just missed there's some heartbreak and playoff losses but that was extravagant that stretch then with Tony Fernandez and what happened. No, Buck Martinez, who went down? Was it Ernie Witt or Buck Martinez? I know Tony

went down with that hard slide of Bill Madlock, I think it was at second base, but one of our catchers went down and I'm thinking it was Ernie Witt. And then even I knew the Coles notes of the story. This is how many losses down the stretch, the Tigers did this, you know the... but even how they went into that, they were hot going into that. That's what surprised me. They had a winning streak going into that final and then it all fell apart. They weren't kind of just hovering around they were red hot and my favorite player of all time who would win the MVP that year went completely cold for that final whatever seven games like George Bell

stopped hitting kills you and I look at the the games through there there's a couple of guys I was looking through their their splits for that last week of the season it just all went wrong. And it was a team that didn't really have those red flags or warning signs. Like it was a powerhouse and the winning streak they had running into that last stretch I feel like is what made it so heartbreaking. And that, that's the one where to this day, I've had a few people mentioned that chapter of 87 with George Bell and the kind

of sense of like, Hey, great chapter. I hated it. It's one that folks do not want to be reminded of. I feel, I think what happened five years later does a lot to kind of, uh, yeah, you know, it's like sort of like, you know, the, the Buckner error at first base is easier to deal with when you've won a couple since then. But let, so fall of 87, but now a couple of names. One is Cito Gaston. I have been told by the owner of the Toronto Maple Leafs that I will get a sit down with Cito Gaston this summer. So I haven't locked it in, but Cito is going to be like an

ambassador for Toronto Maple Leafs baseball as is snow, by the way. Snow is an official ambassador of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball did you know that Keegan Madison? I didn't, hon I'm learning a lot today. You're learning a lot. If you come to I think if you come to TMLX 19 on June 26 you can hang with the snowman. My god. Like you spent a moment in his orbit it's unbelievable. Amazing. You think the Otani chapter is good, holy smokes here. But maybe a moment on Cito and how he was able to

get the most out of his players so we would win back to back World Series titles in 92, 93. I think outside of Toronto, Cito is completely miscast as a guy that just got a bunch of all-stars and won some championships. And every player you talk to is almost pissed off about that. They'll go so far to their way to tell you like, no, this guy mattered.

And somehow, someway, I don't think that we talk about Ceto Gaston enough in Toronto. And people who were around for those teams do, but I'm talking about younger fans, the new generation of fans, even the job that the organization itself does to keep history alive.

I think there needs to be more Ceto Gaston. And there is an art form to knowing when to insert yourself and when to stay the hell out of the way. John Gibbons got very good at this later in his career with the Blue Jays. Those were club houses full of personalities. And when we look back on 92 and 93, we tend to look at championship teams in a very sunny light because they won, they're champions, everyone's happy

and dancing. But those teams had some big, big, big personalities that were hard to manage. And Cito Gaston, like John Gibbons later, and like many great veteran managers, knew when to take a peek in the clubhouse and just walk away and knew when to say, shut the hell up, I'm talking. And that's an incredibly difficult thing to do because if you take the wrong step in doing

that, you lose a clubhouse. It's a very hard thing to keep control of. And every single player, I don't care if I'm talking to the 26th guy on the roster, or Joe Carter, or Duane Ward, Tom Hanky, and the big moments, the starters, everyone says the same thing, which is that he just let you do your thing. He left you alone, he trusted you. And Ceto's quote that I always held on to was that he would, I think he said, I'll lose one game now to win three down the road and eventually he won those three down the road he did it a couple times and that's gonna take leaving in a closer who's shaky once or twice you might lose that game but in the big moment later in the year that closer is not going to be looking over the shoulder nervous they know that their guy is gonna trust them

these are great points and to bring us up to speed, because I want to talk about, it's in your book, it's illustrated quite well in your book, but the turnover from the 92 to the 93 team. I think we sometimes think of that core. Oh yeah, you know, all the roots there and Carter's there and Alomar's there and we talk about this core, Devo is there, but there's a shocking amount of turnover from 92 to 93. So going back to back quite something, but on our way there, back to the late great Tom cheek, the pitch to Sprague.

It's a drive. It's deep left field. It's way back. It's gone. Home run at Sprague on the first pitch that he sees from Jeff Reardon. And this game has been turned right around. As the Blue Jays will take the lead, Sprague hitting the plate, and the Blue Jays lead it 5-4 in Atlanta. Ed Sprague coming off the bench to pull the trigger on the first offering from Jeff Reardon and he goes deep over the left field wall.

Are Blue Jays fans appreciative enough of the home run from Ed Sprague in 92 in Atlanta? Oh that one needs to be talked about a lot more. Especially again I bring it back to the younger generation of fans and I don't mean that to crap on them at all I just think that this this organization at times has done a strange job of keeping its own history alive and the Sprague homie everyone knows about Tista and Carter but the the Sprague home run going into that so you the Winfield double like some of these massive moments that maybe don't have as much footing as they should. And I love talking to Ed Sprague about that.

He's, at least last year was working with the A's, I believe still is, but I'm fascinated by that and similar in the Joe Carter moment, like just how one play can define someone's career and their life. Like Carter's the extreme, he can't get out of bed without being asked about that. But Sprague, I knew it was the millionth time

he'd told the story, but you can tell it still meant so much to him. And he's another guy who said he owes his whole career to Cedogast and moments like that. But it was also fascinating to hear how much different baseball works today versus back then. And he said, listen, I just got with a couple of guys in the dugoutsouts and I think the conversations were just like is it high

or low is it a fastball is the heater what's this guy like there's no iPad there's no I had made an appearance it was just a quick chat with a veteran in the dugout and boom go up and be a baseball player and there's probably should be room for a bit more of that but man what a moment what a moment and it kind of for a casual Jays fan Ed Sprague wasn't really on the radar because Kelly Gruber was your third baseman. So it's an interesting passing of the torch sort of situation there. But you mentioned the you mentioned the Dave Winfield double and what a hit that was. And I didn't pull the double but I pulled this. and I didn't pull the double, but I pulled this. first base side Timlin to Carter and the Blue Jays win it the Blue Jays win it the Blue Jays are World Series champions they come pouring out of the dugout and they are mobbing

Carter and they go down in one big collective heap over by the first base bag here a big pile up somebody on the bottom might be hurt in all of that the Blue Jays have won the World Series some reason I always love the one big collective heap that was always my favorite line he was so good at just describing what he saw and this will play in a moment when I you know touch them all Joe it's like make sure you

touch those bags Joe Carter but wow there is, 92 World Series champs, that moment, Timlin to Carter, and so many thoughts. One is that, can you imagine John Allerood at first where he would normally be? Like, I feel like Joe being there, you get the leap. Like, you know, Joe was so exuberant where John Allerood was so low key. But there's another name, I feel,

is not talked about enough. John Allerud. Like because these big personalities and these great players are surrounding him, you almost don't have oxygen to talk about the sweetest swing I've ever seen. One of the best like just pure hitters in the history of this team and what fascinates me about Allerud and I'm a big baseball card collector and I collect a lot of Oluhud, and I love collecting old rookie cards of his where he's listed as a first baseman and a pitcher. Because coming out of college, he was like original Otani.

He used to be a pitcher and played both ways in college ball and had some legit talent at it. He could strike guys out, he wasn't just eating innings. Similarly, I love collecting Carlos Delgado catcher cards. But any cards that list Oluhud as a pitcher as well, I'm obsessed with because I loved him as a hitter. I wish he played for a thousand years. Like he's one of my all time favorite baseball players.

And man, like what a player, that run at 400 this season he had was one of the coolest all-time seasons in this organization I love John Olarud. Okay so as we you know make our way to 93 here I'm now reminded of that great story John Olarud tells about playing I guess with Ricky Henderson where Ricky didn't remember playing with John Olarud you remember this story? Oh no. Okay so it, like, do I know you or something? And I think John's like, yeah, we we played together in 90 World Series 93 for the Blue Jays. I think this was the Mets or something.

But Ricky Henderson, there's another name. I can't believe he's gone. Yeah, it's not just that's unbelievable. Ricky Henderson no longer with us. That's just gone far too soon here. OK, so I'm gonna tie up some loose ends and I'm gonna shout out a couple of sponsors and then I gotta tell people if you care anything about baseball or Blue Jays baseball, the franchise, a curated

history of the Blue Jays by Keegan Matheson. You mentioned Gibby earlier. How'd you get him to write the foreword? He was great. At first he told me just to write it myself and make it sound good, but I eventually, uh, eventually got him going on it, but Gibby, Gibby was great to me for the book. I loved writing the chapter about him. He was great on some other chapters, especially Josh Donaldson, kind of loving lovingly giving him some crap, but hearing players talk about John

Gibbons was one of the more meaningful things about writing this book. It's just like Russell Martin had my favorite quote in the whole book. He said, he feels like home. I just thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever heard, uh, just like Russell Martin had my favorite quote in the whole book. He said, he feels like home. I just thought it was the most amazing thing I'd ever heard said about a manager.

And Gibby was great though. He is, he's only getting more Gibby by the years. And he was really generous for that. So I loved the forward. It was an honor to have that from him. Amazing. I mentioned I had to mop up a little loose ends here. Chris Cooksey did write in when Chris Cooksey heard that you were coming back to Toronto.

Mike, the question, I don't know if you have the answer, but he says, and I think we all know the answer, but why did Manny Lee switch to Manuel? He went downhill after that. This is the Chris Cooksey take. Yeah. So it reminds me of Albert Bell, Joey Bell. He was Joey Bell, Albert Bell. But yeah, Manny wanted to be Manuel. That's, that's his right. So another reminds me of Albert Bell, Joey Bell. He was Joey Bell, Albert Bell, but yeah, Manny wanted to be a Manuel. That's, that's his right. So another one I got, I like collecting Jorge Bell before George baseball cards. I love collecting the Horace, but man, I like it. We got to get to the bottom of it. This man looks, I'm more interested in.

I like it. These names, these inf, like these are back when the, the middle infielders didn't have to hit for any power whatsoever. I feel Cal Ripken changed all that but Manny Lee, Nelson Liriano like you know just maybe a little line drive single please that's all we ask of you. So again a couple quick hits we do need to shout out Pat Gillick and you mentioned it earlier but the Joe Carter, Robbie Alomar trade for is it Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez, right? Like wow. Amazing.

It's I always try to come up with the modern equivalence of that. And it's I don't think there ever will be one to that level, given given how big money has gotten in the sport now. And anyone of that stature now or close to that stature would already be on an eight or ten year deal I just don't think that's gonna happen again and a like a big leaguer for big leaguer star for star trade it just doesn't happen it's it's got to be big leaguers for prospects or for money or something but that's just man an all-timer I think that will just forever be the biggest

trade in Jay's history I don't think anything's gonna touch it I can't imagine the only other bigger trade but it was a lopsided trade Whereas you know you're getting Fred McGriff and Tony from the future Hall of Famer, but the Gilmore trade was a monster I think it was like ten players involved and it gets Gilmore in Toronto and Gilmore oh, there's Wendell over there Gilmore's in the washroom not literally. Okay, just's Wendell over there. Gilmore's in the washroom. Not literally. Okay. He's just hanging on the wall over there. Okay. Uh, I do want to just say shout out to exhibition stadium. Uh, you're too young, but I experienced all my first blue jays action at the, uh,

what they lovingly called the mistake by the lake. And I never knew any better. So as far as I was concerned is, Oh, this is where my blue jays play. And I love the place. I loved it. Loved it. Loved it. Okay. And here's the call. I have a contractual obligation to play this. Joe has had his moments trying to lay off that ball low to the outside part of the plate and he just went after one. Two balls and two strikes on it. Here's the pitch on the way a swing and a belt. Well field way back. Blue Jays winegan. That happened, okay. So specific questions for you, author of the wonderful book, The Franchise, a curated

history of the Jays. How important was Ricky Henderson being on second base during that ad bat? We've asked Joe Carter about that before and he gave this great quote that Ricky was the annoying like mosquito out there going buzz and getting in everyone's head and he was always a big believer that pitchers were very conscious of that. Well Mitch Williams seemed to be well aware the greatest base stealer in the history of the game was on second base. You have to be. So it's sure as hell is not gonna get you a worse pitch and Joe Carter said a lot of different times I've heard him talk about ricky there uh... how important that was and

joe carter still amazes me to this day man he he is not done tired of talking about that that's kind of some of the chapters about just that a moment like that can crush somebody but you can swallow your entire life and boil you down to one moment like it's there are many stories of these great players who have these big great moments and it kind of drives them nuts like winning the lottery or something it sounds great but a lot of them go crazy so Joe Carter's embraced it and I I think it's really incredible how he has

and I've seen him at a hundred different galas and alumni events and he he nails it man it's he treats every single person like it's the first time he's been asked about it. Okay well I'll just tell you my experience which is last June I had Joe Carter on Toronto Mike for the first time. So he's sitting where you are. Well not in this basement, it was at the Joe Carter Classic. But we're sitting a couple feet away from each other and I play that very clip I just played and he does this look. I wish I had a camera on him but he mouths it like he lip syncs the thing and he does this kind of eye roll like okay here I go for the 1000th time but he's very gracious to happy to talk about it and I think if you're known for

hitting a walk-off homer to clinch a World Series there are worse things to be known for so yeah so now is are opportunity here Before I give you a couple more gifts here This is our opportunity to talk about the turnover between the 92 World Series champion Blue Jays and the 93 World Series champions Because there is a core that's intact, but there's a lot of change on that roster. It's almost half the roster It's crazy, and I don't think that's enough of the story often enough The the amount of moves that went into that's enough of the story often enough. The, the amount of moves that went into that. And some of them were necessary just based on contracts, but some of it was very proactive and very bold at the time.

And going back through newspaper archives and stuff, really not everyone loved them at the time. A lot of it was like, Whoa, really? We're you're taking this and doing this to the world championship team, but that's what a great front office does they are strong in their beliefs and That front office certainly was and they said listen like we need to do this before Something goes on or before we have to we want to do it when we want to do it not when we have to do it I'm so impressed by that. I think that's always going to be the model in Toronto and

the sheer number of players who were turned over and how they reshaped the top half of that lineup too, which was really exciting. But man, the names that were brought through. When it goes from Wham Co to Ham Cow? Ham Cow. That is a hell of a lineup, man. Incredible. Unbelievable. And a couple of other key changes, of course. Dave Winfield out, Paul Moller in. That's quite, I mean, there's a significant change right there. And of course, we talked about Ed Sprague earlier, but like third base is now Ed Sprague's domain. And also the Tom Henke, Terminator Tom Henke. Now it's Dwayne Ward as your closer and you don't you

don't miss a beat. Amazing. I love looking back at Dwayne Ward's seasons. A reliever throwing almost a hundred innings. Dwayne Ward's another guy that could be dropped into 2025 and still succeed. He was a modern reliever. All these unsung heroes that were rediscovering. Now speaking of unsung heroes I got to shout out Al Grego who's gonna be playing live not yeah next sat not this Saturday but I think next Saturday for his 50th birthday he and his band the Royal Pains are gonna play live but he's not just a great singer he's also the host of Yes We Are Open which is an award-winning podcast

from Minaris and the season 8 finale just dropped and if you haven't listened yet to the season 8 finale of Yes We Are if you haven't listened yet to the season eight finale of Yes, We Are Open, you're missing out on one of the sweetest episodes featuring Brenda and Rick Coletta, owners of the parlor and the Fry's The Limit in Thornton, Ontario. So subscribe and listen Keegan Matheson. I will. I'm there. I'm in. You're in. OK, well, here's a measuring tape for you, courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Thank you. They got a great podcast called Lights Undertaking. I like it. That'm in you're in. Okay. Well, here's here's a measuring tape for you courtesy of a funeral home Thank you. They got a great podcast called lights undertaking

I like it that you should subscribe to and speaking of great podcasts building Toronto skyline We're recording a couple of new episodes next Friday, but Nick Ienies is the host of that show I get to co-host and Nick has stepped up to help fuel the real talk over here and And last but not least, if anyone listening, or you Keegan, have old cables, old electronics, old devices, don't throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca, put in your postal code, find it where you can drop it off to be properly recycled. Is that a good idea, Keegan? Absolutely, please. Save the environment with us.

Roy Halliday. Yeah. And I remember in real time thinking, you know, I think he is as good as Dave Steve. And I remember having a moment near the end of his Blue Jay career when I decided maybe he's even better than Dave Steve. So it's impossible to really compare these two greats, but Roy Halliday, regardless hell of a pitcher and a Hall of Famer.

Amazing, and hearing old teammates talk about him fascinated me. I talked to Ricky Romero a lot about him, and I leaned a lot on those for the stories. Ricky coming up as kind of the fresh rookie, maybe the next big thing, and Roy as the established great pitcher in Toronto. And Ricky was fantastic for the book and said that you know like his

version of it was like listen like early on I was a little nervous but then he caught himself and was like dude like I'm from East LA like I can go up with this guy this is not scary this is Roy Halliday. And the relationship that they built was so incredible but the Roy Halliday story, I'm unfortunate, and it's tragedy. More tragedy. As we talk, I realize there's a lot of tragedy. There's more and more.

There's something in this org. But the, God, and again, another example of a guy who I wish was pitching on better teams. Again and again, we keep coming back to this. But like- And with better logos. Yeah, and I really grew up on Roy Halliday. Likeiday. I was an Elgato and a holiday guy. And every fifth day there was Roy Halliday. And the absolute model of consistency and of greatness

in Toronto. And this gets brought up a lot, but the true sign of how respected and liked he was, was that when he requested the trade and was eventually dealt, there wasn't a huge uproar. There was some people upset, certainly, but a lot of folks are saying, okay, you know what, you've given enough. Go get a World Series. I'm so glad he had those moments with the Phillies and the perfect one,

and it's just an incredible, incredible career. I wish he was still around coaching ball and working with young pitchers and being way too intense in a bullpen somewhere but... I mean I remember the stories you know Bob Elliott etc would report on the fact that he was like up at like I know 5 a.m. work he'd be first to to the park to do his workout and everything like his commitment to fitness for example and his craft second to none unlike anyone and the very like rigid robotic routines he would go through every day players pitchers position players who were with him still

tell those stories of how dedicated he was to an extent that it was difficult for people to keep up even when they tried. Wow. So Roy Halliday I mentioned had many great years of the Jays with that awful logo I never liked. But Carlos Delgado also had the unfortunate circumstance to have to wear that logo that Toronto Mike did not like. But you mentioned Carlos, you had Roy Halliday and Carlos Delgado and Is this another former blue jay who belongs in Cooperstown? Yes, and I got he's tainted by the steroid era He had no connection none whatsoever, but that entire era Even if it's not the steroid talk It's the fact that all those numbers were jacked up around you and that limits not just your candidacy

But your year-to-year all-Star Games, Silver Slugger, stuff like that. A few other factors with that if he had of maybe gotten one more year in the big leagues before that hip injury really hurt him you'd get that 500 homerun plateau that changes everything. 500 homers and on top of all that I wrote a bit in the book about this, but Delgado was also politically outspoken as well. And in a very thoughtful, intelligent way, I think. He is, to this day, such a fascinating interview because he's so well-spoken. But that also rubbed some American writers wrong. 100%. He wouldn't stand for the American, the star-spangled banner.

And that was a big issue. Because of their treatment of Puerto Rico Exactly, so here's this Puerto Rican star who plays for that annoying team up in Canada Who's in New York and he won't stand for God's anthem it? Yeah, that pissed people off and again that brings us back to the fact that this is a human voted thing so all of those are factors and Whether or not he's a Hall of Famer capital letters, maybe he's on that line. But the fact he fell off the ballot as quickly as he did is ridiculous.

It's a complete joke. So I just had to remind myself. So you mentioned you didn't get to 500 homers because he ended his career at 473. And then I was thinking just what about Fred McGriff? And Fred McGriff ended his career at 493 So both fell short and McGriff eventually got in Hopefully again, I got to spend my efforts getting Dave Steven. Okay, but when I'm done getting Dave Steve I'm gonna work on Carlos Delgado because those are two former Blue Jays. I believe belong in the Hall of Fame. Okay, I'm Well, should I skip ahead? No, I'm not going to

what I'm going to do with you right now. Keegan Matheson. Yes, I am going to skip ahead. Okay. I'm going to. Okay. So there was that. So between the 93 World Series and 2015 and I was following the team very closely in that period, but it's, you know, we had our holiday and our Delgado, but this is a bit of a wasteland like between 93 is World Series and then 2015 tough time to be growing up as a Jays fan. Yeah. Average teams that didn't spend enough. That's what it is. You, you had your holidays, your Delgado is some reasons to watch along the way. Vernon Wells came up through there and put up numbers,

but there was never quite enough built around. Like you didn't see the infrastructure and the ownership commitment that you're seeing right now. And they were trying to squeeze every ounce out of what they had, but the end result was teams that were stuck in the middle, which is the very worst place to be. They never tanked and got that first overall pick. They were a third place AL East team. Yeah, they were stuck in that middle and that kills you because you never, you're always picking 10th or 15th or 20th instead of getting that top top young guy. It's not as pronounced in baseball as it is in NFL football or the NHL,

NBA, but it's still killed them for years. And again, without the wild card, it changed everything, but it was just a blah era, kind of a forgotten, muddy, cloudy era of baseball. It's probably best left muddy and forgotten. Thank goodness. We have some reasons to, to move past it with 15 and 16. Okay. Strange wonder. So let's, let's, uh, if people want to read more, I didn't mean to interrupt you there. You said 2015 and I got excited for a moment because the the hype train of 2015. I'm still kind of living off this theme. So

One again, I don't get a commission on the sales except it's a great book by a great guy And if you give a shit about the Jays or baseball you you should get a copy of this I'm gonna read a note from an FOTM that was sent to me this morning regarding the book. This is from a gentleman we call in the TMU, the Toronto Mike Universe. We call this gentleman Midtown Gord. All right. I'm going to quote him, okay? Today I got home from work and made dinner, said to my wife, hmm, I'm not sure where Pierce is. That's his almost 24 year old son Anyway, just a few minutes ago. He walked in with something behind his back. He said oh, I was at the Blue Jays game I didn't realize he was going to the game. He said to me

I have you a late birthday or early Father's Day present Then he presented me the new Keegan Matheson book. I love it. Signed by Keegan Matheson. I guess Keegan did a book signing at Sportsnet Bar after the game. I was there Midtown Gord. I witnessed this first hand. My son was one of the first people in line. So I came back. I must have missed Midtown Gord's son by this much. I remember signing that one. Yeah. Okay. He didn't have cash. So Keegan gave Pierce his email and he email transferred the funds This is some great detail here. What a wonderful surprise So he wants me to thank you. Oh, no. Thank you. That's fantastic. I remember I remember signing that one to gourd

I'm glad shut out to Midtown gourd. He's got his copy. He's and not baseball related, but I want to give some love to not baseball related, but I want to give some love to people who sacrificed all, like for our freedom, for our country. Do you know, Keegan Matheson, that this, that 81 years ago today, Juneau Beach, the Normandy invasion of D-Day was 81 years ago today, June 6th, 1944. Wow. And for those who don't know Juneau Beach I'm shouting out there were five beaches in that Normandy invasion you might have

seen Saving Private Ryan but I'm shutting out Juneau Beach because that's where the Canadian forces were and specifically the third Canadian infantry division in the second armored brigade and they were tasked with assaulting and securing this stretch of the beach, Juneau Beach. 340 Canadians died that day, 81 years ago. 574 were wounded, 47 were captured. That's 961 casualties. But I get chills thinking about, because we're talking about, we're about to talk about

a bat flip and we talk about touching them all, Joe, and we talk about Dave Steben. And then I could feel as Tom Cheeks making these call I feel like Goosebumps, but then I think about 81 years ago today and it kind of puts in perspective that we're working in the toy department over here So 81 years ago today many a brave Canadian Were part of the Normandy invasion on D day. That was Juneau Beach All right. Now I'm gonna brilliantly segue back to the toy department. Okay. And I'm going to play this clip and just ask you a little bit about this particular Blue Jays season, which I loved. Well, it was the best season

since 93. So of course I loved it. Let's listen. One and one on Jose. All eyes on the mound and the bearded Sam Dyson. Now he comes up. Kicks the 1-1 pitch. Five ball deep left field. Yes sir! There she goes! Woohoo! I'm letting the crowd ride us. I love how Jerry- MJ 6, Rangers 3.

The designated hitter number 10, Edwin Encarnacion. You know, the guy who- Jose Bautista is unbelievable. Okay, we had a lot of Jerry- Sorry, we had a lot of Tom Cheek on the show. We had to get some echo TM Jerry Howard in there. I love how we let the crowd carry that. But that was the bat flip. And again, we talk about that back flip. I think we're starting to talk about it a bit like it was a walk off or something, but that was the seventh

inning everybody. Yeah, it'll it feel it's definitely remembered as a walk off, strangely, but it's an all time moment man. And for, God, for anyone that's under 38, 40, that's kind of what you remember. So were you there at the Dome? No, I was not. That was the couple years before. I started covering the team in 2017.

Right. I've only been around for the bad stuff, but Jose's still got it though, man. He's talking to him for this book. He still has that same edge. He's still like, he still looks like he could play. He has never changed a bit and I never want him to. He's one of the best personalities in baseball all time. No argument here.

I got to talk to him at that Joe Carter Classic last year and I'm back there in a couple of weeks. So we'll see who shows up for that one. Couple of quick notes. One is I'm glad we got some Jerry Howarth in there. I'm really glad Jerry Howarth got a big call because he was supposed to call the 92, it was his turn to make that call

and he handed the mic to Tom Cheek and said, "'You've been here since day one. "'You take us home.'" And that's Timlinda Carter. Amazing. And Jerry deserved that for so very long, especially for how graciously he handled that. But Jerry's call on that was perfect and how we let it breathe for a little bit. But can I tell you what? I'm nitpicking here. I'm picking nits. Who's going to stop me?

This is Toronto Mike. This isn't Toronto Keegan. OK. I don't know why the game ops people have to bring in the music. So I don't know why I have to even now I'm thinking oh great like YouTube's gonna give me a block on that because I've got Some song to in there. I don't understand if that at that moment because we won't you know We don't have time to go into it, but we know what happened in the top half of that inning Yeah, okay It's just a whole sports net documentary an hour long in the seventh inning of this game and it was what an inning you know I still remember falling to the floor when Joey Bats hit that home run like I I remember I was upstairs watching I collapsed the floor my wife was there and she's like like she's like oh my goodness like I

collapsed to the floor but I don't understand why you can't just let the dome I don't know it was like 47,000 strong going nuts. Just let that ride. You don't need to pipe in the blur. So I'm anti noise at all ballparks. I think every ballpark is too noisy. And we're trying to turn our whole lives into a TikTok video that's constantly blasting at us. But it's I don't think I've made many friends in the game ops department around the city. You don't need it. Especially there. You don't need it. You

have to have a sense to let the crowd ride for a bit. And if you want an example of how to do it right in a game like that, when you have a full dome and it's a meaningful game like that, because obviously on a Tuesday night in May, maybe you need to like whatever juice it or whatever, but watch a soccer match. Okay. I feel soccer's got it right. You don't have all this going on.

So the crowd generates the sound and they go into the chants and the songs. They don't need to be told to clap their hands when it's a tie game and the goddamn bottom of the ninth. It's incessant. It's too much. I hate it. I hate everything about it.

So that call, I love that call. I hate the fact, and I actually like song too, okay, but I hate the fact we got to hear a song during that quiet moment with the crowd. And while I'm doing this, I'm just going to say, and I hope Rogers is listening here, I'm still, I know, I was at the dome yesterday, I had a book launch to attend and I biked to the dome yesterday. I don't know if you know that Keegan Matheson, but I don't know why there's one statue outside that ballpark and it's for the the head of Rogers

Edward Rogers I don't know why Ted Rogers gets the statue outside why is there no Joe Carter statue why have you not celebrated Jose Batista what's up with that I think part of it's they don't own the land that's excuse one they have a statue there and figure it out but they have a statue and they they need to they need And they need to. They need statues. They need to honor their history better. Period.

I think something's going to be coming on that. The Leafs have figured it out. We don't really know what is coming, but Shapiro said a couple times, something's in the plans. We'll see. But they need more. They need to do a better job of that. Museums, something outside. Statues and baseball just fit so well together.

We have these moments. We played a lot of them. I have one more to go here. But there are these moments in the history of this franchise which people can read about in your fine book, but it would be lovely to celebrate them. If I go to a Leaps game, I'm going to go say hi to Johnny Bauer and Wendell Clark. Like they're all there. Absolutely. Where the hell is John L. Okay. And then one more question from the live stream. This comes from Moose Grumpy. Who's next for the level of excellence,

in your humble opinion? Buck Martinez. Really? I'm actually surprised. Jerry Howarth, I think, should be there as well. Next to Tom Cheek, I would love to see. But Buck, what he has meant to this organization is so rare.

And there's some players,win Jimmy Key are kind on that conversation I don't know if they're there but what Buck has not just meant to this organization but baseball in Canada I think as a player a manager and then a broadcaster forever that's pretty rare and I you're not going to see another Buck Martinez in this country and We're gonna on his chapter made me appreciate that even more I just I'll be a big proponent of buck being on that level of excellence. I I hope I cover that day someday I'll be very proud to if it happens, but I hope it's when he can enjoy it as well Well, I think it's a no-brainer that when he decides it's time to hang it up

Hang up the mic the headphones and call it a career. He's had a long, great career behind the plate and then broadcasting. I think that's your that's your moment right there. Sees the moment. Yeah, I was thinking like, what about a John Allerud? Is it you know, you mentioned Jimmy Key. I feel Jimmy Keys, we haven't even mentioned his name. Super overlooked.

And maybe he was a bit Overshadowed by Dave Steve definitely. Yeah. Okay. So here's some possibilities here. I do see that. Yes. Okay I'm just checking out who's on it right now. What about a I don't see Tom Hankie's name on this list No, it's I don't know for a reliever I feel like they have to be like an all-time great maybe but it's there's a lot of guys like that like Like Edwin like Jimmy Q are kind of on that line. I don't know if they're kicking the door down You know, it's you also don't want to go too long without adding somebody right? They've just added Jose Batista was added in so early recently You don't want to go too too long until the next guy, but I hope bucks up there

Okay. Now that's one more call from Jerry and then one more topic I want to talk to you on our way out. You've been amazing. Thank you, thank you. I hope I'm not taking, I don't know if we ever talked about how much time I would take but here I am just taking as much time as I want. Okay so one more call because FOTM Jerry Howarth got to make this call. You know they've turned a lot of double plays. Oh! There's a drive to keep left field and the ball game is over! This should be a statue.

I think I have multiple calls here, so stay tuned. This is the television call, right? I thought I pulled Jerry, but I messed up everybody. Let's see what I got here. Even now there's music going on, right? Just let the crowd go. The horn, I can almost live with the horn, it's just like a home run horn thing. You don't need the beats. Okay, so there's a long... Again, this is not the Jerry Howarth call, if you heard that voice. I think I set it up incorrectly.

But this was the walk off in 2016. So before I talk some showy, Ohtani with you, the 2015, 2016 teams, like what did it mean to this franchise? And maybe a little word on why the Rogers decided to replace Alex Anthopoulos and Paul Beeston kind of in the midst of this I guess Yeah, well brought them back and made the blue jays cool again. They were not cool for a very long time Happened a few years later with the rappers and just being cool being a social destination matters in pro sports It's how you make money. It's how you keep a fan base and Edwin's moment like him standing atop home plate with his arms straight up in the air that should be a statue in the city I think

and that walk-off win against you Paul Doherman why the hell he was in the game I don't know but God bless it those teams they had some attitude you know you look at Bautista in Carnacion Josh Johnson my god you look at even the pictures they had from Stroman through adding David Price and Russell Martin to all of that who was all attitude at the time. They could beat you but they

could also kick your ass if something happened and that's why people loved them. They had an edge to them and it captured the city, like completely captured the city again And we're still chasing that high it hasn't come back. It hasn't been close Well, we haven't won a playoff game since 2016 since I showed up. Yeah Keegan. Can you go somewhere else, please? So much love I'm of the belief that Maybe we didn't need to bring in Mark Shapiro from Cleveland What do I know though? I don't cover that. I don't cover baseball.

But I do know that after years and years of disappointment and feeling in this is me speaking for me is I don't want Jay's fans to get mad at me, but it just felt like there were no consequences. And we just kept bringing back Shapiro would be president, I suppose. And then Atkins as GM. And then we're going to talk in a moment about Shoei Otani that this season, 2025, I'm not really following this team at all.

Like this is why we're, you know, we're winding down here. I know I said I'd close with Shoei Otani, but I want to ask you about Alison Gordon. Yeah. Because Alison, tell us like about Alison Gordon and how important she was like a trailblazer. Yeah. Alison Gordon was the first woman to be a full-time beat writer of Major League Baseball team and was running up against years in the era. She came in the early eighties, coming out of the late seventies where women

being in the clubhouse to report on Major League Baseball was not just an issue, but it was banned and it was a matter of the courts at that point. And her coverage in the Toronto Star, number one, like brilliant, lively writing, fun storytelling writing. Her book Foul Balls, if you can find a copy of that on eBay or buried in a library somewhere, is an incredible look into that era of baseball. But how she handled that and how she wrote about that, I mean, I am six foot two and big

and have a loud voice and a beard. When I walk into a clubhouse, I fit. I do not know how it feels to not fit in a clubhouse. And I benefit from that every single day when I walk into that clubhouse of at least looking and sounding what people consider to be baseball-y.

And for Alison Gordon to walk into that clubhouse as a woman in 2025 is still far more difficult than what I do, but in the early 1980s, incredible. I'm so grateful that I got to learn more about Alison Gordon and read her book, which is fantastic. I recommend anyone who can get it. But, and then some of the books she wrote later in her career about a character who was a baseball writer, but like solved crimes, incredible,

but I loved writing that chapter. And I think that we as writers and media in this city need to do a better job of kind of remembering and commemorating people that came before us. And what she did stands above so many others and is really special. I want us to all remember what she did in her career. No, I'm glad you had this multiple chapters on the storytellers and we talked about Tom and Jerry quite a bit and of course the great Dan Schulman and there is a voice for you

and Buck Martinez, we're going to get him on the level of excellence, but Alison Gordon has a chapter as well. So thank you Keegan for writing about Alison Gordon. All right, we're going to close with Shoei Otani. Because it's fairly recent, but you have a great chapter. I'm on page 86 of your book, which you have autographed for me. But why did you call me Midtown Gourd? Just kidding here. I love it here. You, you. You signed it for me, Toronto Mike. Only Mike's in Toronto can buy this off me.

It'll be on eBay in about a half an hour. Just kidding. Just take us home a little, the greatest hits of the Shoei Otani chapter. Yeah, I saved a lot for this book on Otani. I was there as it all happened in Nashville as that all broke loose. So I kind of set the stage for that chapter taking you behind the scenes of what it was like to cover that and how strange it was. Very, very, very strange. But also some more information that has not been out there yet on what the Blue Jays did to try to court Shohei Otani. What happened

when he toured their facility. What he was interested in. What the Blue Jays had set up for him, for his dog, for everything else and how secretively all of that happened. And also some more information on how close the Blue Jays really were. I do not think they were used and I think that's kind of a crutch that people in Toronto use a lot, but we're a big city and a cool city. People want to come here. It's not always being used by- We were a strong second, Is that fair to say?

We're not always being used by big brother in New York or LA. Okay. It's and this chapter left me with a greater appreciation for how close it really was, but this chapter has the most new info in it. Uh, definitely in the book, there'll be an excerpt of it tomorrow, Saturday in the Toronto star. Actually, uh, it's run in digital, but this will be in print in the Saturday star. and the Toronto Star actually it's run in digital but this will be in print in the Saturday Star but that one was fun to write and fascinating to report because there there is some info that hadn't been out there before and it it it's just a story that fascinated me no they didn't get them that chapter is not

gonna bring them back and I'm sorry for that but I think that time moves on I think I'm still interested in it as a story and I wanted to kind of preserve that in time. Well, thank you for covering that moment that I can tell you, we had a TMLX event at Palma's Kitchen. We were live recording. It was the day after we thought he was on that flight. Oh yeah. And my guest on the mic starting that TMLX recording, which you can find in the feed, was Steven Brunt. Wow.

And just chatting with Stephen Brunt. Let's get a statue of Stephen Brunt outside that dome, OK? But chatting with Stephen Brunt about what we thought when, and the misreporting that he was on his way. And then it was a dragon from Dragon's Den, Robert, who was on that plane, and just this clusterfuck. And then, of of course while we were recording that episode

Otani put on Instagram. He was a Dodger amazing. You're amazing Keegan. Thank you. You're amazing, buddy I root for you. You kind of have I just my last guest on Toronto Mike was Scotty Mac I love it good Scott MacArthur and you kind of have flipped stories. Yeah, we traded, you know Yeah, we had to balance it out. Who sold his Toronto condo to go to the Maritimes? Because he felt literally felt like that's where he should be and he's no longer in media But he's we talked about this in the most recent episode. I'm happy for him, but he's happy He's in great condition. He's a happy man and you kind of you're a Maritimer who felt a calling

I remember your story about I guess you're working at a bank or the beer and you ended up coming here. And now you've got all these people coming out to see you, to get you to sign your book and take selfies with you. You're a BFDA. You're a big ticket in this city, Kiki Matheson. I appreciate it. I'm glad that Scotty Mac's balancing me out though. We can't tilt the

scales too much to the big city. The big city gets enough advantages. And you're both sweethearts. Hey. Are you going to post any thirst trap photos on your social media like Scotty? No, I need to get in shape like him first706th show. Go to torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Buy a copy of the franchise, a curated history of the Jays by Keegan Matheson, forward by John Gibbons. Buck Martinez says it's a terrific read. So get a copy. If somebody buys a copy, could they get you to sign it somehow?

Oh yeah, anytime. If you're at a game, let me know. Text me, I'll meet you outside of Gates. We'll do a couple signings later in the month in July probably as well, but we'll make it happen. And I noticed you're still very active on the app formerly known as Twitter. Yeah, there, and Blue Sky, Instagram. Okay, find me. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me

at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at any time. Find me at find me. Find me in Matheson. Find him anywhere. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Monaris, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Building Toronto Skyline, and Ridley Funeral Home. Checking my calendar in real time. Who's next? Because this is a Friday. I don't like recording on weekends. Too busy with family things. Let's see what's going on Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday. Okay. My next episode is a new sub series. We're calling Rewinder with Blair Packham. We're going to talk about the Canadian media landscape. It's a new thing. I'll explain it all in the next episode, but you don't want to miss it. See you all then. So Music