Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Ken Tizzard: Toronto Mike'd #852

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Mike chats with musician Ken Tizzard about his years with The Watchman, Thornley, and his star-studded new solo release All Together Now.

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Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majewski, or as I call him, Mimico Mike. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is Ken Tizard.

Ken, how are you doing, buddy? I'm doing great, Mike. How are you today? Doing really well. Tell us whereabouts in the province of Ontario do we find you today? I'm currently in Campbellford, Ontario, which is pretty much halfway point between Peterborough and Belleville. So it's east and a little bit north of Toronto. And how do you like it there? I had Retro Ontario on the program yesterday, and he's moving to Port Perry. He's been living in Scarborough his whole life. And he tells me about this mass exodus. I'm just wondering, how do you like it there?

Burborough his whole life. And he tells me about this mass exodus. I'm just wondering, how do you like it there? I love it. We've been here 21 years. You know, at 30 years old, me and my wife were having our first kid and I was, you know, the Watchmen were doing really well. We were, you know, had a constant string of top 10 singles and hits in Canada. And we were doing well in Europe and Australia. Still spending everything we could make, trying to make a dent into the US

market, which was which was not happening for us. But at 30 years old with a pregnant wife, I realized that as a Canadian musician, this is probably as good as it gets. And I evaluated back then with my wife being a teacher, me being a full time musician living in Toronto, and I just went, I can't play music the way I want to and keep living in Toronto my whole life. So we had to look for something. I also coming from Newfoundland found Toronto a little bit too busy for me. So when I found this place out in Campbellford, you know, it's a big old farmhouse, you know, in farm country, right on the river. It's just kind of, it's very much my style. I can have a studio here. I can raise my kids. Me and my wife can live and

just kind of not bring the cost of living down. That was one of the main priorities was bringing the cost of living down. So I wasn't working until I was 70 at a job I didn't like. Well, if you think it was bad back then, imagine it's got a lot worse, my friend. My sister's in Toronto and she's just going through the selling and buying process. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't. It's so exciting because they're getting so much for this house that they didn't expect. But then they go look for something that they're expecting to pay this much for. And it's five times that. It's a pretty crazy thing.

It's a crazy thing. And even renovations have gone nuts because lumber is up like tripled in price or something. So everything's just mad. It's just what a crazy time we're living in here. or something to get, you know, it's so everything's just mad. It's just what a crazy time we're living in here. But Ken, before I go any further here, happy album release day to you, my friend. It's a fun day. Yes. I'm very, very happy today. I woke up, I woke up to my phone starting to chirp at about seven in the morning when people were listening for the first time and sending me little messages. So it's been very nice so far. So so i've been i've been lucky enough that i've had a secret link for uh weeks now and i've been listening and we're going to so just so you

know how this works we're gonna talk it's called all together now it's out today i'm gonna play stuff from all together now we're gonna talk about this like this all-star roster of like people who worked with you on this project like some great names on that list including what i liked who is it dave hodge called him the uh the that toronto mic house band but ron hawkins from lowest of the low it's like i mean the names we're going to drop later involved in this project are just amazing but because this is toronto mic and i'm a massive fan of the watchman if it's okay with you, we'll go back and then we'll kind of work our way to the new project,

which is fantastic. You lead, I will follow, sir. Good answer. See, now I can continue to record. That's a good answer. Okay, so here's the big question, because I know you're... Who did I have?

Chris Wardman was on the show a couple of weeks ago. He produced that first Watchmen album, The McLaren Furnace Room. And you are not in the band at that time, right? That was Pete. So tell us how you end up in the Watchmen. It's a bit of a strange story. I was in Toronto working at Music Express magazine, which you may remember from the late 80s.

It was a big worldwide publication. You know, it was the big large format magazine. I was really excited to work there. And I was there as the photo editor and a guy named Alan Gregg, who's a massive Canadian figure. He was involved in the magazine from, you know, it was one of his businesses.

So at one point we shared office space um with a another of jake's companies um or another of alan's companies which was called the management trust uh which was jay gold's management company right and they managed the hip and they had just signed the watchman and i had just toured russia with a canadian band called Growl. And we came back. And this was in 1992, I believe we had just come back from Russia. And I was on breakfast TV that morning. So I went in and did breakfast TV at like 4am or whatever it is the call is for that. And then I went to work, you know, after breakfast TV, and I was making a coffee and Jake walked into the coffee room. And he said, I thought you were a photographer. I said, Well, I said, I'm a photo editor. I said, and I was making a coffee and Jake walked into the coffee room and he said, I thought you were a photographer. I said, well,

I said, I'm a photo editor. I said, and I know a little bit about photography, but I'm really a musician. He said, yeah, I saw you on breakfast TV this morning. He said, I got a band out of Winnipeg who's been looking for a bass player for almost a year. And I said, yeah, I said, I'm not moving to Winnipeg. And he said, do you know the Watchmen? And they had played, they had played the Christmas party the year before for Music Express at the Horseshoe. And I'd seen them then. And, you know, they were they were they were a great band.

And when he said, you know, that was the band that was looking for it. And he said, let me fly out to Winnipeg. You don't need to move to Winnipeg, but let me fly you out and see if you meet the guys. And I flew out on a Friday evening, showed up in Winnipeg but let me fly you out and see if you meet the guys and i flew out on a friday evening i showed up in winnipeg it was way too cold i had on my toronto winter my toronto winter clothes which was a t-shirt and a leather jacket right the boys laughed at me at the airport they're like what are you wearing where's your jacket and i'm like this is what i got i'd never experienced winnipeg cold before but we spent three days together and by the end of it it it was just right it was like like, this is perfect. We wrote a song together the first night, The South from In the Trees.

That was something that I've been working on on my own. And while we were jamming the first night, it was like, what kind of stuff do you jam on? And I started playing this thing. And by the end of our first time ever jamming together, we'd written that song, The South, that is on the album. In the Trees. What an album, too. I'm going to play a couple of jams from it in a moment here but uh i'm wondering about that chemistry there because correct me if i'm wrong i've had so i've had danny's been over and i've gone to see him at the uh his awesome uh bar this is back when you could actually go into bars i guess but uh back his parkdale the motel bar, I guess it's called. Right. Right. And of course, Sammy's been over several times.

Like Sammy's a good, good FOTM here. But aren't they all related? Like, aren't they all somehow blood related? Yeah. Well, Sammy and Danny are first cousins and very tight first cousins too. Right. And then Joey met them in preschool. But they're all part of the Winnipeg, you know,

the Winnipeg Jewish community is a very tight and fairly, it's a large community, but it's very tight. And, you know, being brought in as, you know, the non-Jew or the token Goy, as they tease me about. I was amazed at how much I got accepted into not only the families and the Jewish culture out there, you know, attending staters and stuff, but also, you know, these guys had known each other, you know, since they were three or four years old. You know, they have a lifetime of history. And to be able to insert myself into that as somebody who's outside of their town,

outside of their culture and outside of their town outside of their culture and outside of their history um to be able to come in and have now a 25 year almost 30 year relationship with them is is incredible um and i do feel you know i will never have that lifelong history that they all have together but i i it's pretty significant what we have so it goes without saying you pass this chemistry test and you fit in perfectly and so so you're in the trees which uh again well you know i think every i think i enjoy something from every watchman album but in the trees is is uh just just all killer all filler no killer as they say so here here's a taste i think this was the first thing you'll tell me if

i'm wrong i remember so i'm listening to 102.1 at the time. I guess they were, I don't know if they were The Edge or 102.1 The Edge or whatever they were going by. But I think this was the first single. So here's a little bit of a jam from In the Trees. Man, I could just listen to this. So what's it like when things start to break for this band? So, I mean, with all due respect, I like the McLaren furnace room, but it's really in the trees where things start to move and shake for the Watchmen, right?

Yeah, it was a really lucky time for me. The band had their first indie record out they'd toured around and done the the cross canada bartenders and bouncers tour which every band has to do at least once sometimes 10 or 15 times right uh where you really only play to bartenders and bouncers um and then i joined the band we some of the record had written like boneyard tree which you just heard a little bit of yeah um that was one that they had written before i joined the band. Some of the record had written, like Boneyard Tree, which you just heard a little bit of. That was one that they had written before I joined the band. And that's a bass line that was a combination of me and the old bass line from Pete. the South stuff like that where they were sort of brought in you know they were what were termed in the Watchmen terms they were they were one of my Genesis songs and we all kind of have those it was remind me again exactly

what we were talking about oh no just wondering what's it like when it starts to take off for you so so so we did the we finished writing the record and recorded it which was already exciting but i still wasn't sure what was happening and then in in may the album came out and i mean you know one of the first shows we did was a rooftop show at uh one of the radio stations in winnipeg and there were there were hundreds of people gathered and all of a sudden the the single before with the band even really got touring the single took off to a point where the record company put a ton of money in it and all of a sudden in Toronto there was billboards on the QEW with our faces on it we were on every radio

station and it just exploded and that first summer was just well we we started touring I guess in May on that record and it was about 22 months before we actually were back home, and it was like, okay, it's time to do the next thing. It was a whirlwind, and it kept taking off. It was amazing. So maybe speak to the role of much music in all this, because that's the one thing in this country anyway. Whether you're in Newfoundland, or if you're in Vancouver,

or you're here in Toronto, if you're a music fan and of a certain age, as I was, you're likely watching much music, and you guys had some heavy rotation there. We did. I mean, it was to the point where, you know, I'd get in the car and I'd turn on the radio and there'd be radio ads and then there'd be the watchman playing and then I'd turn on the TV and back in those days, much music was running ads. I mean, it wasn't just the videos that were playing. I mean, like, you know, even between the videos, the commercials would be ads and the ads would be videos. So there was so much good music.

And the Much Music building in Toronto was a hub of activity. There was always people hanging out outside and you could look in through the windows and watch them shooting. And, you know, we were included in that. I mean, we were almost household regulars there. At that time, they embraced us. And it was an amazing vehicle to get to the entirety of Canada, you know, at one time, which just doesn't happen anymore on that level. And it beats that bartenders and bouncers work. Yes. When you've got a record, I mean, the thing about a record company, if you know about the history of record companies,

you know that it's an unfair balance. Record companies give you money to do something, but they take an awful lot back. That money goes to really valuable things. You know, I mean, you can be almost instantly famous with those marketing budgets. And that's, and that's, you know, that is, that is the power of a record company, you know, back in the days when, when that was the way it worked and much music was a huge part of that too. Like there was such a, there was such a machine back then. It was, it was something that I will never experience again in my life. But the amount of people working for us and the money and everything that went through it was just an amazing thing to watch happen.

market uh so i i i ask this as a you know born and raised canadian who absolutely i love the watchmen along the same you know the same tier of enjoyment of for example pearl jam let's say okay so my ears my ears yeah like i'm all like i'm all in and why is it a band like the watchmen with that jam and i'm in a moment i'll deeper dive into another song from in the trees before we advance but why do you think why do you think you didn't you never cracked the u.s uh market uh the way like a nickelback for example was able to do it okay well i mean i don't know this for a fact but i mean you know my cumulative experience leads me to believe that for example in canada we have A&R guy who works for a record company. And I won't use any names.

But, you know, this A&R person works with the record company to come up with the budgets. And, you know, like a budget for In the Trees, for example, could have been, you know, $750,000, a couple hundred thousand to record it. A couple, you know, videos were $100,000 each, you know, and then there's the marketing on top of that, all those billboards. So you've got a guy sitting at his desk in Canada who is signing these checks and he's on the hook for, you know, an extensive amount of money to break this band. And in Canada, he takes that money and he makes sure it gets spent. You know, he might have 10 albums a year or 10 albums in a quarter that that person is putting out and they're responsible for all those checks. And then we get, you know, so if we're signed to like in Canada, it was EMI. So that would make us a universal or a capital artist in the States.

So you've got the guy at Capitol LA or New York. He's got 10 of these artists on his deck, on his desk that he's pushing and he's got his name on all of those checks and he's responsible for the success of these bands. And then he gets another stack of CDs that are coming from Canada that he has no interest in financially and his job isn't going to. So which phone call is he going to make when he's only got a certain amount of time? And I really believe that that was, that, that was the problem was just, you know, it's, It is great to have distribution in other countries,

but if you don't have a team that believes in you and has a vested interest financially, it's really hard to get them to do the work when they have other artists ahead of you. I've heard this story so many times, Ken. I recently spoke with Kim Mitchell, for example, and when he released Go For Soda, don't call it Go For A Soda, don't call it Gopher-A-Soda

because there's no A in there. Okay, so I've been naming it the wrong name forever. But Gopher Soda was pushed in the States and then on the same label was Twisted Sister and we're not going to take it. And the way Kim tells the story

is the label decided to basically to favor Twisted Sister. So he was sort of dead in the water and that was it. He came back to, you know, put on the OPP hat and he was a proud Canadian. And he's been, you know, doing that like yourself. So very interesting why sometimes it doesn't matter what the sound is or the quality of the music and musicianship. A lot of it is almost like almost political. Oh, it is.

Absolutely. One hundred percent. It's political. It's financial. I mean, it's, it's big business. There's, there's no way around it. You know, record companies, you know, they give you the highest interest loan that, that, you know, it would be an illegal interest rate for a bank to have to charge it, but they do so much for you. You know, all of these, the last 10 years,

especially I've had lots of conversations with young bands who are totally like, Oh man, you know, I wouldn't have anything to do with a label blah blah blah i can guarantee you you know most of those bands if they had a contract put in front of them and they actually saw the benefits of having a complete label the way that we did like back in the 90s they'd be all over it because it was a family you know emi especially like i mean i remember when we signed first time i met dean he's like welcome to the family. And it felt like that. You know, everybody wasn't, you know, they signed the artists that they truly loved

and everybody on the team loved the artists that they were working with. And it was a great experience. Okay, before we leave the Watchmen behind, I warned you, I'm a big fan, but let me ask you, you mentioned All Uncovered and I'm curious as to your, I'd like to play it, but it's got that long bill. That's okay.

Maybe I will play it anyway. Cause Hey, it's, it's my show, right? Ken, I might play something. Yeah, absolutely. You're the one in charge. I love it. I love it. Tell me about your role in All Uncovered and how it came to be, because I just think it's a gorgeous song. I remember it was a, I'm thinking it was a Friday night. I was home. I was home in Winnipeg, which was Danny's mother's house.

When I, when I joined the band, I was still living in Toronto and I was not moving to Winnipeg. So I would go out and spend months at a time living with Danny, his brother, David and his mom, Faggy. And Faggy became my surrogate mother over the years. She's still a very, very important person in my life. And one night, I think it was a Friday night, I was upstairs in my little room and I was listening to,

I think it was Invisible Son by The Police. And it had that bass line that went doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. And I was just playing that back and forth. And I think it's I think that's actually like kind of an E to a to a C sharp. And I was just playing that back and forth. And I think it's, I think that's actually like kind of an E to a, to a C sharp. And I was just playing back and forth with those notes. And then I, I started developing those notes into chords and I changed the key over so that I could get a big ringing chord on the A. And then I was screwing around with that for a while. So I had that, you know, I was still playing it in four, four, and then I moved it to three, four, and I got this little to those two notes, they were moving back and forth. And as I was doing that, I remember Danny walking in the room and saying, what's this? And I said, I don't know, it's just something I'm kind of working on.

And he just stood there, I think he was smoking a cigarette, we were both smoking at the time. And he, he just started humming along with it. And then I sort of started working, you know, we got the verse and then I started writing, you know, the climbing part for the B part. And that was kind of where we left it. And the next day we went to rehearsal and we said, Danny said, you know,

hey, me and Ken were working on something last night. And by the end of the day, we kind of had all uncovered written. And how does it work in The Watchmen with lyrics? Like, do you guys all contribute to the lyrics or how did that come together no um when i joined the band like um joey had written everything except for one song on mclaren furnace room um he had written all of them and penned all the lyrics except for one that danny wrote and when the second album came around danny was starting to

write more lyrics uh and that first weekend when I joined the band, one of the conversations I had with them right off the top was that I wasn't interested in being in a band where I couldn't contribute to the songwriting. And that was part of the reason that we jammed that first night and wrote the South. So we agreed very early on that it would be open for songwriting. However, with lyrics, because Joey had written such the bulk of the first two records, and then Danny was starting to put his voice in, adding a third voice, and I don't mean voice as in actual voice, I mean character and style of songwriting, there was a fear that it might kind of water down a little bit of the focus and the point of what

The Watchmen had already established itself as. So I agreed to be a songwriter and melody writer without contributing lyrics. Okay. But does Joey get credit for Buckle Me In on the Highway to Sin? Yeah. That's Danny's. Danny wrote those lyrics. See, I think I knew that and then I forgot I knew that. But shout out to Danny, who does like an angel by the way uh what a voice what a voice took me took me years to be able to open my mouth around him I was so afraid he was just he's got such a beautiful voice even when I started doing my own stuff I was just I was trying to sing like Danny for so long and then finally I realized I'm not Danny it was such a hard thing becoming a singer after playing after being a sideman and a bass player

for so long and the two singers that i worked with were you know ian thornley and and danny greaves and then i start okay well i'm gonna start singing now and you know i i was naturally inclined to mimic what i'd heard so much but i mean my voice i don't sing anything like either of them so no but you got you i will say this i've spent a long time with uh all together now uh and i mean i'm gonna play a couple of jams uh and you can always change this up on me but i'm thinking we're gonna hear some mad world and some don't think twice but we can we can change it up because it's all pretty damn good uh but you you got you you sound great yourself but but before we get to that because we're almost there but i'm gonna play some i'm gonna play some all uncovered and then you mentioned thornley and then we're gonna talk about uh all together now so here is that song which i'm not even

sick of all these years later uh that's how strong this song is so good job here we go Thank you. Lying in bedrooms is it It's not like five years ago Completely over my body Is that just the place that I want you to be Look at the pictures you've gotten Like signals from oncoming cars

We're covered in a cake from the last time I know it sounds weird We collect it in jars Is that just the place that I want to be Oh can't you see it's a life I don't need

Please don't make this thing up for me The way that I want to be Oh can't you see it's a life I don't need Please don't make this thing up for me Here I'll bring her down but I don't really want to, man. Oh, man. Some good stuff right there.

Wow. And of course, there's also the bonus nostalgia vibes. Back before you had kids and a mortgage, and it's like, damn, I could focus on music. It was the most important thing in the world. It was for a long time. It still remains, but family has definitely taken it good side by side, which has been a nice thing.

Right. I agree with that. I agree with that sentiment. Okay, so tell me, why does The Watchmen break up? The first, I know that, okay, to clarify, why did they break up in 2003? Well, we'd been through a series of things. Sammy had left the band, was asked to leave the band. It depends who you ask the story. Well, what's the real story there?

He's selling houses happily, doing well. We need the real talk out of it. As I say, the real story changes depending, depending on who you ask, because there was a lot of emotions involved. But I do remember a day when the four of us were sitting at a, we're at a restaurant and we were hashing out stuff. And I remember Sammy standing up and,

you know, saying, okay, well, if this is the way it is, I'm out. And it was kind of one of those, like I said,

there was a lot of stuff that went into that, but regardless, we lost Sammy. There was a social cancer growing inside the band for a while, and the result of that was Sammy leaving the band. Not to say that it was his fault or Joey's fault or Danny's fault or my fault. It was just the way it happened. At that point, we brought in well we we did um we did the sort of electronic record um so to speak uh without a drummer and then when we went on tour we brought in Ryan Ahoff and Ryan was

brilliant and we did the last few years of the Watchmen tours with Ryan including the Farewell tour I loved Ryan Ryan just became a very good friend. He's a great drummer. We didn't do any writing with him. We don't have that sort of relationship. But he was a great guy to fill the role and became a really good friend, which is nice. So after that, it was sort of me and Danny and Joey. And we had finished that record we had had some speed bumps with EMI I guess the labels were changing free music was becoming a norm EMI wanted us to be you know the asked us to help speak out against file sharing and stuff we weren't really into

that there was a lot of you know for the first time in our life on that record we had to you know demo and demo and demo because the record company kept saying well things are changing you know Moby's really big now when you did the electronic record can you maybe go more electronic we're like well no we did that because we wanted to and like now you're telling us to go in this direction right and it got really frustrating um at the same time my sister was living with Ian Thornley uh and Big Wreck had been a band that had toured a lot with the Watchmen and they were getting married. And I was spending a lot of time with Ian as my future brother in law and also as one of my closest friends outside of the Watchmen. And we spent a good part of the season writing together. And then Danny and Joey, Danny and Sammy reached out.

Sorry, Joey and Danny reached out to me and they said, are you doing a record with Ian? And I said, I don't know. I said, I'm just writing with him. But yeah, we're thinking about it. And they said, well, it was sort of one of these, well, the Watchmen is the Watchmen thing. And I kind of said, well, you're telling me I can't play with other bands?

And there was some weirdness and some back and forth. And it just became, well, let's just leave it. And I, you know know because while this was happening you know um one of our agent uh people you know the edge fest was happening in canada and they were looking for an opening band for it and they reached out to us and we didn't even have a band name so they called a super group because it was me and ian and seku and we were from three different bands right and i think that rubbed the skin of of some of the Watchmen camp a little bit wrong and at that point it was just kind of like okay we're done and it just kind of fizzled out from there but you've

clearly you've patched things up because you're you you'll I've seen the Watchmen in the last couple of years at the the Danforth Music Hall I caught that I mean you guys still sound amazing so at some point I guess you decided we'll do certain shows like, you know, I know you're big out west but you'll still do the odd Toronto show. Yeah, it's a weird thing. I think it was Jake Gold's 50th birthday party in

Toronto or was it Ralph's? It was either our manager or agent. I can't remember. I think it was Jake's. And there was a party at Healy's jeff healy's place and um they asked us if we'd come to a couple songs and we hadn't played together and and we really hadn't even talked and me and danny and and sammy agreed to and joey i can't remember what the reason was whether for what for whatever reason joey couldn't do it and of course i was

working with ian so i'm like well ian ian's like i can learn a couple songs and play joey's parts so that we went and played as the watchman with ian thornley um and uh we did you know the super set four songs of whatever it was and afterwards ralph came up to us and just said you guys sound as good as ever like you know let me know if you ever want to do a reunion show and that was the start of the conversation and then we we talked to joey some more and we decided we would do one show with the horseshoe and just do one show only just for fun and we were rehearsing for it and then as we were rehearsing um ralph said well you guys are already in shape now so the the i think it was the maple leafs uh it was either the maple leaves or the blue jays are having their season

opener and we're looking for a band to play the parking lot before and it pays this much money for a 45 minute set and we just went holy fuck yeah okay well that's the week that we're doing the horseshoe so yeah we'll take that too right because because the cast was so good and as soon as everybody found out that we had done the show we started getting calls from promoters all across the country and ralph said let's just you know you guys pick a number anything that comes in above this number we'll start to talk about and that's led to a consistent four to ten shows a year for the last eight years and it is back with the original lineup and we get along well you know I wouldn't say that you know like I say there are certain social elements when you when you have best friends that you work together for a long time certain things that that happen over time and you get used to it and you get used to you know, like I say, there are certain social elements when you, when you have best friends that you work together for a long time, certain things that, that, that happen over time and you

get used to it and you get used to, you know, not bringing certain things up. And, uh, you know, it's just, it becomes a, at the end of the day, I love, I love standing on stage with those three guys. I love making music with those guys. You know, do I want to get back in the van and do it 200 nights a year with them? No, no, not, not at all. Um, but do I want to get back in the van and do it 200 nights a year with them no no not not at all right um but do I have great memories of doing that oh man I'm on my deathbed most of my memories are going to be of those four guys in the time that we had I know that um you can't take it away from me um but we do what we can and I'm really happy that the four of us can get together and and and do things you know as a as a as a

watchman unit and also as individuals of who we are summer 2022 my hopes are that i'm uh at a watchman show uh hopefully you know you know yes i was gonna say i'm hoping outdoors maybe uh but something something i just can't wait for that moment man it's been it must have been uh this pandemic must have been a nightmare for you guys who love performing live in front of a big group of uh fans like i just can't imagine what it's been like for you it's been really hard on everybody uh but yeah i mean from a musician point of view covid hit everything got canceled i haven't been out since you know i can't i mean i'm not allowed to i'm not allowed to work i'm not allowed to do. I'm not allowed to do what I do. So. No, I mean, I know. And that's why, uh, hopefully summer 2022, I mean,

hopefully things have returned to a point, but, uh, here, so we're, we're almost at all together now, but I'm going to play a little bit of a band you mentioned there. So here's a taste of this and I'll just talk to you a little bit about this. And here we go. See a lost cause coming, there's nothing less, nothing more. Every time I get lost in paradise, I find a way to screw it up somehow. Ain't the way it's supposed to be, but it'll do for now. Ooh, and you're right, you're right. Everything else in my life just might be wrong.

You're wrong all the time. Outro Music I am as if there's no tomorrow. So far, so good. Ken, that's a banger too. Mm-hmm. It sure is. So give me a little taste. What were the years like? What was it like being in Thornley? Well, me and Ian had developed a close friendship when we were on the road and then you

know he met my sister and that happened so we wrote we put that record together it was an amazing opportunity for me i mean i've been with the watchman at this point for going into well i don't know how long it's been a long it had been a long time and i i absolutely love the watchman but it kind of you know it was over um and um when we started working on the thornley stuff which for you know the better part of a year we were unsigned and we were just working in the studio and we didn't really have a name it was me and ian and seku and we had a few different guitar players coming in tavis i actually met tavis at the first photo shoot for the album like i'd never even played with tavis when we were doing the album cover shoot

and this guitar player shows up and Ian's like, this is going to be our new guitar player. I'm like, hey, how you doing? So it was sort of weird the way it all came together, but it was so much fun to do that record and write those songs.

Growing up in Newfoundland, playing punk rock and just loving heavy, groovy music, working with Ian was a thrill. I mean, he is a musical genius. Some of my biggest adrenaline moments have been on stage with Ian when we go down a rabbit hole

and it's just this amazing, explorative musical thing. But going into the studio, working with Gavin Brown and just producing these heavy hitting tracks this was when Gavin was just sort of hitting his groove with the modern rock stuff that he was producing Three Days Grace and us and other stuff

and it was just such a fun time and then getting out on the road and being signed directly to an American label where we had support down there and going down and opening up for doing tours with Puddle of Mud and Three Doors Down and Three Days Grace and Nickelback and, you know, all these bands. There's so many of them we got to share stages with.

And bands like Low Pro, like American versions of the same thing, like bands that had hit that mid-level and were just kind of grinding it out on the club level, doing that night after night, it was so much fun. And the music was so fun to play. You know, unfortunately we, there were other, you know, again, with the rock and roll world, there are issues that creep and creep in, you know, there was, there was a lot of alcohols, drugs, and,

and just bad moods that inevitably, you know, tore the band apart and left Ian to reform with new people. So that's what we typically refer to as creative differences? Yes. I love it when I hear somebody like, I know you and Sekou both leave Thornley and it's because of creative differences. I always wonder what that's supposed to be code for.

Creative differences mean I say one thing and Ian said something else and somewhere somebody decided what we meant in the middle. So, okay. So I guess it's late 2005 when you leave Thornley. And is this when you go solo? Like essentially, is this time for Ken to go solo? Yeah, when I left thornley um i mean i had been i had been sitting in the back of the tour bus listening to bob dillon and nick

drake and smoking weed uh you know night after night while the raging dance party happened up in the front of the bus with you know sort of all the groupies for lack of a better word um it wasn't really my scene so you know by the time by the time I left Thornley Slash was fired again depends which story you heard um um I was ready to you know I I told my wife knew that I was leaving I had told her months before that it was my plan to you know get away from all of this stuff that was hurting my soul and I also at that, I remember, I remember Ian playing me a track. One of the, one of the days, one of the final straws for me, and this, this might give you some perspective on it.

I was in the basement with Ian at the studio and he played me a track and I was just like, Oh my God. And it was, it was a track. It was, it was the sort of thing that I had set out to do with Ian. It was one of those beautiful tracks that, that attracted me to Ian. And we had been doing so much. The label was trying to push us into different directions and they were trying to get us to, they're trying to change us. And Ian played me this track and I said, oh man, I'm so excited. I can't believe, you know, this is great. We're going back to sort of what I

believe. And he said, it'll never get played for anybody. And I said, what are you talking about? So there's no money in a track like that. I said and I started crying I said Ian I said this is breaking my heart and he said can he said I said I'm just trying to hold it together and it was just it was that was one of the things you know it was kind of that day was the fine the day that I called my wife and I said I don't think I can do this anymore so I knew that when I was going out that I was interested in going back to like when I left Newfoundland when I was 18, I was interested in finding a folk rock group to play with. And I ended off getting not sidetracked, but I ended off getting sucked into the rabbit hole of rock and roll. And it was great because I love rock and roll, too.

But when the Watchmen and Thornley, we did things on our own terms. We wrote our own records. We created our music. We created the records and we gave them to the record company. In both instances, when the record company said, this isn't what we want. Can you change it? That was when I lost interest in it. And, you know, that's a frustrating thing to have to go to. So I decided I was going to just get an acoustic guitar. I didn't really know how to play acoustic guitar. I was a bass player all my life. I knew a few chords, but I decided I was going to learn how to sing and play and write songs that felt good for my soul.

Good for you, man. Good for you because money is not everything. No, it helps. But no, you're right. It's not everything. And let's face it. I do get it's, you know, I do get a lot of people saying, oh, it's really good that you could, you know, you could make a decision like that. You know, so many people wouldn't. The reality is I was extremely lucky at this point. I'd had 20 years in the music business, working for major labels, touring the world, playing Jay Leno and everything right on down. So I didn't still have that. Oh God, I really want to make it thing. I'd kind of been there. So making a transition to something different wasn't as scary for me because I didn't feel like I was losing anything. I felt like I'd completed stuff. So that was a good feeling. No, great point. Great point. And

solo stuff and music for goats, which I think is a great, great handle there. Music for goats. Thank you. That's a fun one. Yeah. Well, I started doing the solo stuff and I mean, of course it was a terrible thing. I mean, at first, I wasn't a great guitar player. I wasn't a great singer, but I was, you know, I had good stories and people like to hear it. But it was, you know, I went from, you know, the tour that I had done just before I started solo was was thornly opening up for Nickelback, you know, for 40,000 people a night in the States. And then six months later, I find myself, OK, here I am doing my first thing. And I'm literally like in a coffee house with an acoustic guitar with nine people and, you know, they're drinking their coffee and I'm like, what the fuck?

And they just want you to play all uncovered or something like that. Well, that was the other thing. And then I would get the Thornley and Watchmen fans showing up saying, play so far so good. I'm like, that's not going to happen. I play stereo. I'm like, that's not going to happen. When I play stereo, I'm like, that's not going to happen. Right, right. Yes, I can imagine. But this is all leading nicely all together now. But just pause for a moment because I just want you to know,

because you're far, far away and we're doing this on Zoom, I'm unable to give you, you know, I would give you some fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery and I'd give you a frozen lasagna from Palma Pasta. I know, I'm just teasing you now. Oh, I love frozen lasagna. Well, at some point, when all things return to normal, at some point I'm going to meet you and I can take care of you. I have Toronto Mike stickers for you, courtesy of StickerU.

StickerU.com is where you get your stickers. I have hand sanitizer that the good people at ridley funeral home sent over so i could give to guests when they come into my backyard i give them hand sanitizer so all this good stuff i owe you you're happy where you are but if anyone listening uh would like to talk about uh buying or selling in mimimico or thereabouts. Mimico Mike is what I call him, but his name is Mike Majeski. He's been ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. And I urge people to go to realestatelove.ca.

And sorry, Sammy. I know Sammy's listening right now. And he's like, but Sammy knows how this works. I recommend Mike Majeski and he'll take care of you. And I do think you'd love to listen to The Weeknd. Not The Weeknd, the musician, but an episode I did in my backyard on The Weeknd where Mike Majeski kicked out the jams back there

and it was a lot of fun. So people should listen to that. Okay, I'm going to start by playing. I'm going to play... What am I going to play here? I'm going to play just to introduce this topic. I can't wait to dive into this. I'm going to play some Mad World if that's cool.

That's totally cool. And I will just preface this by saying this is fun fact. So Mad World is prominently featured in the original is prominently featured in Donnie Darko and Jake Gyllenhaal's best friend in that movie

is played by my good friend stew stone who will be on toronto mic'd thursday night and we're going to be kicking out country jams so this is a cross-promotion way to say i'm dedicating this song to stew here we go Thank you. All around me are familiar faces Worn out places, worn out faces Bright and early for the daily races Going nowhere, going nowhere And the tears are filling up their glasses No expression, no expression no expression

in my head I want to drown my sorrow no tomorrow no tomorrow and I find it kind of funny I find it kind of sad the dreams in which I'm dying

are the best I've ever had I find it hard to tell you cause I find it hard to take when people run in circles Bad world. Yeah, great Tears for Fears cover here. Now, I want to talk about the jam and the album, and maybe you can do the whole thing, because there's literally this project, and again, available right now. This album's available right now, which is awesome.

But tell me, like, I see 45 people kind of involved in this, and basically this project. And then I'll shut up and listen to you in a moment. But there's basically 13 classic covers of like songs you'd play live. So tell me all about like the recording of this. Who the heck joined you on this? And these are some big freaking names. So the listenership wants to hear all about it.

Well, it's a strange it's a strange thing. I mean, I picked 13 songs that I wanted to record when the pandemic hit, and I'd already been isolated for a year because of my wife's stem cell bone marrow transplant. How's she doing? She's doing great. She's doing great. She's still not walking. She's in year two of a two- to five-year recovery, so she's doing well.

That's good to hear. Thank you very much. But yeah, so we'd already been isolating for a year and I had learned some coping skills of how to isolate. And when the world got shut down, I thought, oh man, well, what can I offer to people? So that was when I started the Whiskey Wednesday thing as an hour escape once a week. And I also said online, I'm going to record 13 acoustic songs. If anybody wants a little project for distraction, let me know and we'll see if we can work together. And the response was amazing. I have, you know, I mean, the list of people I always have to keep a little piece of paper around because it's crazy. Right.

You know, we got Mike Turner from Crash Karma and Our Lady Peace who came in to mix and help me with it. And he did so much. I can never thank him enough for all the work he did in keeping the project on track because my life has been crazy, you know, with my own shit at home. He kind of helped drive the train and put it together. But music wise, I mean, he's playing guitar on it. We got The Watchmen. We got Big Wreck. We got some of Ron Hines band. We've got Nickelback, Coal Creek County, Headstones, Headley, Matt Mays, the Rowdy Men, Lowest of the Low, Young Novelists, Big Wreck, Dave Gunning, you was really interesting because a lot of the more professional

musicians who you know I really value their time you know they came to help out because you know some of them were like okay we're locked down I got a studio I need stuff to do but others have been you know are friends of mine and and they've been watching me struggle with my isolation and stuff and you know they're like oh cool yeah let's work with Ken. So everybody from a professional side that came in had a lot of love for the project. And then there was a whole bunch of musicians that are lifelong musicians, but might not have sort of had the record deal and been successful, but they still play music all the time, but they have day jobs. And they were really happy to be on a record with some of these people as well. And then there was a few musicians who've never played on a record before. And I'm getting messages from people saying like, I've got a drum

kit set up in my garage and I got two mics, you know, can I play drums on a tune? I'm like, yes, you can. And then when I tell them they're playing with, you know, sort of other musicians, they were just blown away and nobody heard what anybody else was doing. That was the other amazing thing. Everybody got the same acoustic guitar and vocal track. So then we got all these pieces that we had to put together. It was like this massive jigsaw puzzle. But everybody came to it with a real feel of love and wanting to be a part of it. I didn't feel from anybody that this was a stress or pressure. And I think that's a big part of why it actually sounds coherent. And I think it has to do with the intention of everybody involved amazing like even just a spotlight i mean i mentioned 45 people worked on this project with you from those big names you mentioned i mean freaking the headstones

nickelback i mean holy smokes you know uh but i'm gonna just focus on a couple of guys so i'm just curious because uh they've been they've been over to my house basically that's why i'm asking these guys but what what did ron hawkins from lowest of the low contribute so ron was a cool thing because i did working class hero and i wanted to have five separate voices on it and there was a few vocalists in the wind um that were trying to get things done like during covet everybody had a hard time and some people didn't have access to studios and some people had studios that had gotten shut down and all this stuff. So that one, one song I had, like there was five, I needed five particular voices and I had,

I had Chris Broadbeck from C-Spot Run and Matt Mays and myself already. And at the same time, Danny was talking to me and Danny said, I finally got a new studio set up now with the CBC show. Cause he didn't have access to a studio at first. And I said, cause me and Danny used to do working class hero, hero and audio playground. I said, do you want to do a verse? He said, Oh, absolutely. Uh, and at the same time I reached out to Ron and Ron, Ron was on it right away. He said, absolutely. I'm into it. And I sent him the track and he got it back to me within a day, I think. And he sent me this amazing, smashing vocal track. I mean, I don't know what he was using and how he sang, but oh my God, does he sound good?

No, he's got a good setup there. I'm not surprised to hear this. But if I'm hearing you correctly, so Matt Mays, yourself, Danny Graves, and Ron Hawkins, and who else is on? Chris Brodbeck, the singer for C-Spot Run. C-Spot Run is one of those forgotten bands, I feel. Had a huge radio presence with... Weightless? Yes, with Weightless.

And just shout out to my buddy Bob Willett, who's working in Kingston these days at a chorus cluster there or something. Because he came over and we kicked out forgotten jams and we kicked out weightless and we talked about like how nobody's talking about, but, but that's fantastic.

So I'm wondering, I'm going to call an audible on the line of scrimmage. Now, could I play work and working class hero from the, from the new album here? You certainly can. All right. Cause I got to hear this man.

Let me put this. Do I have it? Yeah, here we go. Okay. By giving you no time instead of it all Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all A working class hero is something to be. A working class hero is something to be. They hurt you at home and they hit you at school.

And they hit you at school They hate you if you're clever And despise the fool Till you're so fucking crazy You can't follow Working class heroes is something to be Working class hero is something to be When they told you they'd scared you for twenty odd years Then they expect you to pick a career

When you can't really function, you're so full of fear I mean, I might break it down for a bit, but when I hear Danny in the back there, I'm going to keep it low. And if I hear Danny, I might bring it back up. The next verse is Danny's. It should be right about now. Okay, let me get myself back up there. Keep you doped on religion and sex and TV

And you think you're so clever and classless and free Well, we're all fucking peasants as far as I can see Working class hero is something to be Working class hero was something to me This room at the top, they're telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you can Dude, this is great.

Thank you. Do you think Ron Hawkins, do you agree with me, he's our Billy Bragg? Oh, absolutely. He's our Billy Bragg, he's our Joe Strummer. It's been a joke in The Watchmen for years because when I joined The Watchmen, I was a massive Lois Lelofan. And one of the first conversations I had with mute about music with Sammy took a wrong turn when I said, you know, I really think Lois Lelow are kind of like Canada's answer to the clash.

And he got, he was like, what are you talking about? There's no queen street band. That's as good as the clash. So I'm like, no, no, no. And it was this weird thing. And to this day, every now and again, I'll talk about Lois Lelow and Samuel say, yeah, yeah. They're better than the clash. Well, don't, don't actually, I'm going about lowest to the low. And Sammy will say, yeah, yeah, they're better than The Clash. Well, don't actually. I'm going to purposely avoid this topic because I might have caused little friction.

Sammy made some comments about lowest to the low, and it might have been heard when, you know, when. So anyways, there's a thing there, which I think we fixed, because I know Ron Hawkins has opened for you guys in the last couple of years right we had ron out there um a few um a couple of shows ago with the danforth yeah i i've been a fan of lois lillo forever and like the rusty nails and yeah like every every branch of them like i love the way that they have the lois lillo umbrella which which also houses all of their solo projects and stuff and i think that uh you know you know, I've been a fan of Ron for a long time. We're not very close friends.

I mean, I can call him and we can have a chat, but I mean, he's not somebody that's in my life regularly, but I have so much respect for him as a musician. His Tuesday nights are just amazing. I should have wore my t-shirt. I got a Tommy Douglas t-shirt he gave me. I should have wore it, but sorry. No, he's just great i mean he he i think me and him are probably very much kindred spirits who just haven't had a chance to spend the time together oh i love hearing all this man i

love it when my uh my friends all get along here okay buddy and you mentioned whiskey wednesday you still doing the uh the podcast okay so every wednesday it's's a live stream at 8 o'clock, and then I podcast it the next day. Dude, I got to urge people to check out, again, 13 of these classic covers. How does it build? Is it Ken and Friends? How is

Altogether Now built? It's Ken Tizard and Friends, although it's just Ken Tizard on all the platforms because it's a whole weird thing. But if you add another word to the title, they create a whole new artist and it just makes linking everything weird. I hear you. So all together now, it's available today. So like if you can hear our voice right now, it means you can grab it.

Do you have a preferred way for people to buy all together now? Well, I'm only doing a limited run of vinyl. There's 300 copies of vinyl that should be arriving any day. I am taking pre-orders for them now. Otherwise, it is digital only. I haven't done CDs just because I'm just finding that nobody has CD players anymore.

You're right. If the super fans who want to get the something tangible, they're going to get the vinyl. And you're right. Everybody else, for convenience purposes. When I go on a bike ride, I can't bring my phonograph with me. So I got to have a digital download here. Amazing Whiskey Wednesday. That's the podcast and the album is fantastic. And I don't think I don't know if you know this, so I

won't put you on the spot. But do you know what song I play to conclude every episode of Toronto Mic'd? I don't know you on the spot, but do you know what song I play to conclude every episode of Toronto Mike? I don't know. Okay. So it's Rosie and Gray from Shakespeare, my butt. Oh my God. Every episode.

This is the 852nd time I've played it. I'm playing it right now in the background, but Ken, I want to thank you so much, man. I, I fucking love this. This was fantastic.

And I appreciate it. I really appreciate you having me on. And I appreciate what you do with everybody else and stuff as well. This new podcasting thing is just an amazing new, it's the new magazine, I think. Preaching to the choir there, buddy. I'm with you, man. I love it.

And this is the 852nd time I get to say, and that brings us to the end of our 850 second show you can follow me on Twitter I'm at Toronto Mike Ken remind me what's your Twitter handle at K Tizard at K Tizard our friends at

Great Lakes Brewery they're at Great Lakes Beer Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta Sticker U is at Sticker U Ridley Sticker U. Ridley Funeral Home, they're at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike, he's not on Twitter, he's on Instagram at Majeski Group Homes.

See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started.