Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Kevin Hearn from Barenaked Ladies, Part Two: Toronto Mike'd #882

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

Mike chats with musician Kevin Hearn about his relationshp with Gord Downie and his work on The Secret Path.

Welcome to episode 882 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. McKay CEO Forums. The highest impact and least time intensive peer group for over 1,200 CEOs, executives, and business owners around the world. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. Palma Pasta.

Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. And Mike Majeski. He's the real estate agent who's ripping up the Mimico real estate scene. Learn more at realestatelove.ca. I'm Mike from torontomike.com.

And joining me for the second time in a week is Kevin Hearn. Hello. Hey, Kevin, how you doing? Good, man. Long time no see. Deja vu here. Well, let me begin by saying happy belated birthday. When I spoke to you last, I had no idea it was your birthday. So happy birthday to you. Thank you very much. I hope you had a special day. Did you enjoy your big day? I hope you had a special day. Did you enjoy your big day?

You know, I usually try to keep my birthdays pretty low key, but as my birthdays go, I had a great day. I spent time with friends and family in a mellow way and went to the patio at Tironi's and had an amazing dinner and a nice bottle of wine. And what a treat that is after not being able to do that for so long. I was going to ask, how long had it been since you enjoyed a patio in this city? Well, they've been shut down since last summer. So they opened it up for your big bash, your big birthday bash, essentially. Well, it was four people.

Well, good for you. It's funny because that day I spoke to you, was that the actual birthday or was your birthday the next day? I don't remember. July 3rd was my birthday. Because it's possible we spoke, I'll have to check the records, but it's possible we spoke on your actual birthday. I just wish I had known. I would have been much nicer to you. My birthday was the next day. We spoke on the second. Gotcha. Okay, now I don't feel as bad, but happy birthday. Well, no, you still hurt my feelings somehow. By the way, that episode has been very well received. I mean, we're going to get into a little more here, but people just love hearing about your,

just the role you play in all these key Canadian combos, if you will. You're like the straw that stirs the drink. You got some feedback from folks? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of bare naked ladies fans chimed in to say they loved it but uh even uh many many others just said they they thoroughly enjoyed the uh the kevin debut on toronto mic so i appreciate it buddy that's nice to hear and uh tyler the drummer actually wrote to me and said he really enjoyed it well you know tyler um who

has been on the program in the past uh is a devout listener of the program i think i warned you about that that he'd be hearing it but he he does love this podcast and i love him for it so shout out to you as like uh brock line of hand well bro yeah well bro Brock is the character Martin Short played on SCTV. Oh, right. Okay. But I know Brian Linehan, the original. You know why? Because Brian does his homework. Sorry, Brian did his homework, the late great Brian Linehan. And I do try to emulate him because I try to do my homework.

You know, that's a compliment for sure. I have a cottage up north. It's very remote. And this was years and years ago. I was walking down the old country road where you're more likely to see, you know, a fox than another human being. And out of the blue, Brian Linehan jogged past me.

And I don't know who he was visiting or I never saw him again. It was just one of those moments in life. You never know when one of those great city TV characters is going to just suddenly jog by. You never know. Yeah. I'm a big fan of yours and the Barenaked Ladies, but forever I've been a massive fan of the Tragically Hip. And Kevin, I'm wondering if you could remember for me, when did you first meet Gord Downie? When did you first meet Gord Downie?

The first time I met him was at a CBC taping, and it was Rheostatics and Friends, and Gord was singing a song. That's the first time I met him. And I remember, I think as most people probably remember when they meet Gord he just he leaves an impression on you you know and he was just such a nice nice guy and seemed really sincere and you know he knew me he knew of me because I worked with the Rio statics and he was a fan of the rios the next time i met him well the next time he asked me to play piano on his record coke machine glow and uh i met him the second time in a sort of dark basement rehearsal space around um adelaide and Spadina, I believe. And it was Gord, Josh Finlinson, and the producer of the record,

who was the guy from The Odds, Stephen Drake, I believe his name is. And the next time was recording Coke Machine Glow at the old gas station studios. I love Coke Machine Glow at the old gas station studios. I love Coke Machine Glow. I actually, I mean, Gord's solo material is excellent, but I believe I would say Coke Machine Glow might be my favorite of the bunch. I love Coke Machine Glow. And, you know, I love the Tragically Hip,

but I was really drawn to Gord's solo work. Just my own personal taste, you know, I love the Tragically Hip, but I was really drawn to Gord's solo work. Just my own personal taste, you know, I found it a little more musically adventurous. Do you have a favorite cut from a favorite jam from Coke Machine Glow? Well, I played on it, but Chancellor, I just adore that song. Seconds from pajamas I must First open all the doors and the windows And invite the vampire in To be one of us Then in the guise of cool air

In the softer hours he's there Sitting talking in the voice of your mother about leaving one good party for another and the night of a thousand missteps and the loss that made him dogged or it could have been the dog getting ass That caused the loss in the first place, I guess I'm discovering you, says Rue, I thought I'd never find I could have made Chancellor without you on my mind Crazy daisies and wooden stars The threat of oxygen on Mars

Marching armies in the night Smiling strangers riding by on bikes Children smoking sluganeers on mics Just a few things most vampires don't like I'm discovering uses for you I thought I'd never find I could've made Chancellor without you on my mind guitar solo

For the dawn ends first light I must First close up all the doors and the windows Try and trap that cool air in To be one with us I'm discovering uses for you I thought I'd never find I could have made a chancellor without you on my mind Yeah Now, at some point, Gord approaches you and asks you to be involved in the Secret Path project. Yeah. Can I tell one story? Oh my God, yes.

I've told it before, but we were recording at the gas station studios, which is down near King and Dufferin, and the building had been bought by a large corporation. So all of the tenants, which many of them were artists and recording studio, for instance, were being evicted. And so the sessions for Coke Machine Glow were some of the last sessions there. And the people below us, it was kind of controversial because the artists all felt they were being wrongfully evicted and below us,

below the studio, they were having like a big party. They were just smashing the place. They were, there's glass breaking and big thuds and Gord was trying to do a vocal and we decided we'd go down there and ask if, you know, they could just be quiet for half an hour while he did a vocal take. And it was really amazing because we walked down and the door was open and we walked right in and there was all this noise. And as soon as Gord,

I was behind him, but as soon as they saw Gord, it was like an old western film you know Clint Eastwood walks in the bar and everything stops and there's silence and uh Gord even had a hat on you know and he was very nice and asked them if they could be quiet for half an hour which they were but I'll never forget that that dynamic in the room when he walked in and everyone was like, whoa, it's Gord Downie. Well, that's respect, right? Like, essentially, Gord commanded and demanded, rightfully so, respect, right, from everybody. Yeah, he did.

Now, okay, so I do want to speak to you about this. I should point out, you can't see it. It's to my left here, but I have a print from The Secret Path. I think it was the easiest $50 I ever spent in my entire life. I remember when they were going on sale, and I was like, just please take my money quick. Take my money right now because I need this print,

and I have it hanging in my podcast studio here. So I want to find it. Where did you buy it? It was the official Cheney Wenjack. There was an online sale, I suppose, when The Secret Path was released. Can't remember, but it was $50. I remember it was $50, and I think I would have spent a great deal more, actually. But that's what it cost, and I love it was $50, and I think I would have spent a great deal more, actually. But that's what it cost, and I love it.

I should turn the camera around at some point and show you it. It's right above where I park my bike every day because I don't trust my bike not to disappear if I leave it in the shed. So the bike— Is that four king cans of beer beside you. Well, okay. So great Lake sponsors the program there. Oh, I see local craft breweries. So yes, I'm a, I am pretty sober right now. I like your style. Yeah. It makes for some interesting recordings. That's for sure.

So you were, it sounds like you had Gord's trust and there was a friendship there from, well, before Coke Machine Glow, et cetera. And maybe it's better if I ask you this question because what do I know? But how and why did Gord tap you on the shoulder and ask you to be a part of the secret path? Well, Gord and I were friends. We didn't speak all the time, but we kept in touch. And he invited me to play on the Tragically Hips record that was called We Are The Same. I played on a song called The Last Reluse, which I love. We rode hard for the boat, hard as we could.

No tears, you said, understood, understood. I said, all right, the crowd will be born. Only born to die I want to watch for a sign in the night I want to watch a bomb go off in a young girl's life Who are you? The last recluse

Who are you? The last Canada goose Who are you? The last Canada goose Who are you? What is it with you? Who are you? Who are you? When the wind comes up, surface up Water scuffs Now for now, whistle cry Just ride your tail, ride and shut up

I jumped on board, turned around to wave goodbye You were on, on your bike Riding with my bike by your side. Who are you? The black canoe. Who are you? The last of the immune. Who are you? You're all I have you As far as I know, it was you You broke my heart from the start

Made me work, work so hard To where I am, to where I'd let you do it all again Who are you? Who are you? What do I do without you? you Who are you? The last precruits Who are you? The last of the immune I am the last canoe The last of the immune Oh yeah, the last canoe

The last Canada ghost For you For you For you For you And, you know, so Gord was, he would often invite me into his orbit. And then I, aside from that, I became friends with Kevin Drew from Broken Social Scene, and we became good friends. Bare Naked Ladies were on tour. We had a show in Kingston, and they invited me to the Bath House Studios. They were working on the Secret Path record.

So between soundcheck and the show, I took a taxi out there and played some piano on a couple songs. And so I was sort of in the family already for that project. And then when the album was coming out and they wanted to bring it to the live stage, it was Dave Hamlin, actually the drummer who asked if I'd be interested. And I actually got the call while I was watching the Tragically Hips last show on a giant screen up in Huntsville, out in the park, the phone rang and I was asked if I'd be interested like they were already planning um the next thing you know for for what Gord wanted to do and I think um Gord was uh wanting me to be involved for a few reasons we connected once one was just musically and personally we always wanted to work together you know like I'd often text him not often but it happened a couple

times I was like oh I wish I was in your your solo band you know but we were both very busy and it just never happened so I think this was like okay it's kind of now or never, Kev, let's do something together. There was that. I'd worked with Lou Reed, who Gord really respected as a poet and as an artist. And I think he appreciated what I could bring to the table as far as, you know, leading the band and bringing the recording to the stage. And then the other level, which might be the deepest, is I've been through cancer and I'm a survivor twice, and I think I could empathize with what he was going through and keep that in mind during the process of rehearsals

and performances, et cetera. had in mind during the process of rehearsals and performances, et cetera. It's almost like you had acquired the necessary empathy almost from having, like you said, you're a survivor. And I know I was reading a story about you. I guess you had, the Barenaked Ladies had some days off in Salt Lake City and you you were basically, what is it, hours away from complete kidney failure is what I was reading. I think that happened to you in 2005, if I'm correct. Yeah, I was on such a cocktail of medications. I really shouldn't have been out on the road.

But I was trying to feel like myself. And things were kind of unpredictable. You know, I'd feel fine one day and the next things would go awry. So I believe I was so out of it, I passed out and Ed had to break into the hotel room to see if I was all right. And yeah, I think I asked him, like I told him, I forgot my sweater on the boat, but we were not on a boat. So I was out of it and I had to be rushed to hospital and I'm lucky I made it home. Sorry, I was just going to say, so when we were rehearsing and I could see Gord's energy waning, you know, I knew it was time to wind the rehearsal down or take a break or whatever and not pressure him. give us a glimpse into your mindset at this time,

because if, if I've got the timing, right, like you're sort of joining Gord with the secret path rehearsals, et cetera. Like that's about the time Lou Reed is dying, right? No,

there's a few years apart. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. I just, so I just wondered what it was like for you emotionally, like having,

you know, you're, you're, you're there for Gord having just been there for Lou and having yourself, you know, over the years had, had your own, your own, uh, struggles. You know, Lou asked me to be his band leader. And on the very first phone call, when they asked me, they said, lose, lose health. Um, he's having some issues and,

and we're viewing these very much as his victory laps. So I knew what I was getting into and for him to entrust me with that was such an honor. And we became closer and closer. It's very bittersweet, but he was my hero and my friend. He treated me like a son, as I mentioned, and I'm just so honored. And when Gord asked me to help him, I just stepped up in the same way. It was an honor, and I did the best I could. Now, most of us Canadians watched Gord speak with Peter Mansbridge on, I guess it was on The National, I suppose. That conversation that Gord had with Peter, that took place in your home? if you can see behind me here, I know people can't see, but you can see the piano. That's where we rehearsed all the secret path concerts.

And when it came time for Gord to do his interview, he asked if he could do it here because this had sort of become his clubhouse and he was comfortable here. And I was sitting right at the stairs. He asked me to just in case he couldn't remember names of band members or anything. So, you know, he felt comfortable here. My plan with The Secret Path was to rehearse with Dave and Kevin and Charlie and Josh here. And we would get everything sort of up and running. Charlie and Josh here and we would get everything sort of up and running and then we would move to a proper rehearsal space and that's when Gord would come in and we'd be all ready for him

but he said no no no he he wanted to be here from the get-go and he was here the first day and and every day And he was comfortable here and he didn't want to move to another rehearsal space. So we just ended up doing it all right here in my living room. Kevin, maybe at the conclusion of this conversation, we'll pose for a screen cap. So I'll take a Zoom screen cap of you and I here and then we'll get the piano in the background there.

So we'll do that at the end here so people can see what you're referring to there. Can I tell you one little moment? How about this, Kevin? You can tell me all the moments because this is valuable. Just Gord had this little printout machine and he printed out labels so he could remember things. printout machine and he printed out labels so he could remember things. And I was playing the keyboard and he approached me slowly and he printed something out and there was adhesive on it so it would stick wherever he wanted. And he stuck it right on my keyboard in front of me. And it just said Gord Downie. He just looked at me smiling and I still have it on there. He just looked at me smiling and I still have it on there, you know.

Oh, never remove that. Are you kidding me? Wow. And it's not just Gord who's, you know, comfortable in your home, right? Cause you've got, you have Gord's family. I'm sure it was, it became like a communal place for those who, who love Gord, I would suppose. Gord's family was here. Yeah. A lot. And you know,, they were making a documentary film. So there was it was very busy. And then at lunch, you know, some band members would want to walk down to Queen Street, but Gord never wanted to because he, you know, he would be bothered perhaps by people, you know? So we went up to my roof. I'd always buy him a sandwich and a salad every day from Nadege Bakery.

And we'd sit up on the roof and just look up at the sky, you know? And while you're there as sort of this rock for Gord, you probably also play a similar role for everyone else. I was hearing about how you would kind of help Kevin, Kevin Drew, obviously, with this. Because this is not easy. It's not easy to be there at that moment in time with Gord's health deteriorating uh it couldn't be easy no kevin was losing a dear friend as well you know and he was we all um

we all navigate these things differently and it's it's not easy and i'd been through it with lou so maybe i had a bit of training in a way, you know, but losses is huge and challenging and tough. And, you know, I remember there was stuff going on that was sort of distracting from what we were doing. And I finally said, like, this is the magic moment, you know, this is, we're working with Gord, he's still here and you've got to savor it and enjoy it and be present and let that other stuff sort of go on the back burner because it's, it's, you know, self-defeating. you did so here's gourd we already you know i brought up earlier that he demanded respect you know he walked in like the wild west everything it's quiet and he's he's dying uh and he he's working on this project that he's passionate about the secret path and how was it that i mean

i saw the documentary uh a couple of times, actually, and I've seen him, you know, while he was still making public appearances. My daughter caught him at a summit in Ottawa. She was very excited to tell me she saw my favorite singer in the world in Ottawa on Canada Day, the Canada Day before he passed. Yeah, I was there. Okay, that was WE Day, the Canada Day before he passed. Yeah, I was there. Okay, that was WE Day, right? I know WE Day is a controversial topic right now, but that was a wonderful event that my daughter thoroughly enjoyed

and she was telling me Gord was there. Cool. So I'm wondering what Gord was like. What was he like? Whatever you can share. How was he able to put it together? Was it just, he had such a great support system around him. Like how was he able to pull this off and create this, this art? Well, when he made the record, he was, he was, you know,

he was still functioning on all cylinders. Is that how you say it? But, you know, he needed help when we were doing the live shows, but he was totally driven. You know, he had the passion and the hunger to do it and was very committed to it. When I used to rehearse with Lou, every time we played a song, it would be different. So I would rehearse the band and I would intentionally

sing a line wrong, or I would repeat something, or I would go to the bridge too soon. And it was all to get the band to zig and zag with me you know because that's what Lou was going to do right so when we were actually in performance with Lou we had our our system down whether it was eye contact or you know go to the next note that makes the most sense we would have these ways and and it was similar with Gord and the Secret Path because Gord was relying on all of the band members for cues. And you never knew which one. It depends which way he was facing, which way he decided to walk while he was singing, because he just wanted to get lost in it. And we also had teleprompters in every direction with all the lyrics.

So we just did the best we could in those ways. Wow. Now, Kevin, I'm wondering, were you with Gord at the end? Not the very end, no. But close, you know know close to it and you know we we'd said our goodbyes and he said he loved me and always would and you know I feel we had closure as best we could and we we did something together that was very meaningful for both of us you know and uh i still do work for the secret path project whenever i can um to honor him but

also because i really believe in what he was doing I am a stranger You can't see me I am a stranger Do you know what I mean? I navigate the mud I walk up on the path Jumping to the right Then I jump to the left On a secret path The one that nobody knows And I'm moving fast

On the path nobody knows And what I'm feeling Is anyone's game What is in my head and what's in the chest I'm not gonna stop, I'm just catching my breath They're not gonna stop Please just let me catch my breath

I am the stranger You can't see me I am the stranger Do you know what I mean? That is not my dad My dad is not my dad My dad is not a wild man He doesn't even drink

My daddy's not a wild man On a secret path The one that nobody knows And I'm moving fast On the path nobody knows I am the stranger I am a stranger I am a stranger I am a stranger Thank you. you know i should have said this earlier you you lost a dear friend yourself like my condolences to you having lost g. I'm sorry, man. Wow.

Yeah. It's a big loss. I hope you know, Kevin, I just hope you know that you're a special guy. I think you're very, very special. And I just want to thank you for being there with Gord. And just thank you for everything. I almost, I'm out of words here, but I just think what you've done is absolutely incredible here. Yeah, we have our callings, right? You have to listen and be there as best you can.

I feel blessed and grateful for the opportunity. May I ask you about Havana, how Havana is doing? Havana's doing well, yeah. She's 17 now. And she got too heavy for us to lift all the time. So she lives in a home now with five other kids. And because of COVID, I was only allowed to visit her from six feet away. But I was allowed to hug her for the first time in over a year, a couple weeks ago. So that was really nice. I'm glad to hear that yeah

you're carrying a lot of weight my friend i just hope you you're taking care of kevin as well well all those things take care of me too you know like uh if i feel down i I just think of Lou. I think of stories that he told me or jokes. Same with Gord. I just, I just think about what we did together and it makes me feel good, you know? And when I feel sad about Havana cause she's a special needs and, you know, I won't do all the things that one might do with a normal child.

I just go visit her because she's so full of joy and it's so pure. I can't help but be inspired and uplifted by it. That's beautiful, Kev. I feel like it'd be cruel for me to keep you going here that was amazing i mean if you have any other stories you'd like to share but i totally respect and understand if if you're spent after that half an hour there i want to tell one more lou story to end on a light note and uh he used to always get irritated because he thought I was too nice. And we were,

we were on a flight once and I was already in my seat on the aisle and loose was going to sit next to me at the window. And I saw him come on the plane and he was a little stiff, a little slow. And I said, Hey Lou, do you want me to just move over to the window? So you can just slide right in here into the aisle seat.

And he leaned down and whispered to me, Kevin, if you ask me one more nice question, I'm going to kill you. That's great. Yeah. You want to pose for our virtual photo together? Yeah.

I mean, what do you want in the photo? Well, I mean, you know, I want you in it that's for sure and then the rest is up to you here so this is i'm just setting up my screen cap but i'll give you a little countdown before i uh do this thing oh yeah that's great okay well okay we um move it a bit so i can just see so we can see that that's a piano because right now, yeah. Okay. Can you do that? Okay. Okay. That's it. Stop. Okay. So at the count of three here, let me get my thing ready on the count of three. Actually, we'll count backwards. Three, two, one. And I'll take a peek at it. Make sure it's all good here. This is what we're doing in the COVID times. Okay. Let's take a peek at that photo.

Yeah, we look like a couple of handsome guys. Okay. So, Kev, so I won't bother you anymore. I've done the two Zooms with you. But I am here if you ever need, I don't know what you'd ever need from me, but I am here if you ever need anything or want to promote something or anything or heck, I'm here.

So peace and love to you. And thanks so much for that. I'm going to cook that up and people are going to love hearing that. Thanks so much for doing that. Are you going to play some more songs? I was going to put in a song from Coke Machine Glow. I was going to put in a song from Coke Machine Glow. I was going to put in a song from The Secret Path.

Do you have any requests? How about a Lou song? Yeah, okay. Yeah, so good, good. Thank you. Which Lou song would you like me to play in this episode? How about Sunday Morning? about Sunday morning It's just a wasted year so close behind

Watch out, the world's behind you There's always someone around you who will call It's nothing at all Sunday morning And I'm falling I've got a feeling I don't want to know Early dawn

Sunday morning It's all the streets you crossed not so long ago Watch out, the world's behind you There's always someone around you who'll come It's nothing at all Watch out, the world is behind you There's always someone around you Who will call It's nothing at all Absolutely. Consider it done.

So yeah, I will cook this up. Now, unlike the other one which dropped right away, this is one of three Toronto mics recording today, so I'm going to cook it up, and I'm going to make sure it's got the spotlight onto itself, because I think people who love Gord and miss Gord are going to enjoy hearing you talking about Gord during the secret path,

and I think this is going to matter to a lot of people. So I'm going to make sure that spotlight's on it. And then I suspect you'll get a note from Tyler Stewart to tell you that, that he loved it. So that's okay. And then you'll jog past me on the road somewhere. I will probably, I probably have biked by you.

I don't do jogging, but I biked the whole city and I'm sure I've biked by you once or twice. Okay. Well, say hello next time. I will. Thanks, Kev. That was awesome. Thank you so much.

Cool. Take care. Bye-bye. And that brings us to the end of our 880-second show. You can follow me on twitter I'm at Toronto Mike Kevin is on twitter at Kevin Hearn Music

our friends at Great Lakes Brewery they're at Great Lakes Beer McKay CEO forums are at McKay CEO forums Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U.

Ridley Funeral Home is at Ridley FH. And Mimico Mike is on Instagram at Majeski Group Homes. See you all next week. Read Andrew Miller and wander around And drink some Guinness from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold, but the snow, snow, wants me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. Well, you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you But I'm a much better man for having known you oh you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray yeah the wind is cold but the smell of snow

won't stay today and your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away. Cause everything is rosy and green. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Roam Phone. Roam Phone brings you the most reliable virtual phone service to run your business and protect your home number from unwanted calls. Visit RoamPhone.ca to get started. Are they picking up trash and then putting down rogues? And they're brokering stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can

Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine And it won't go away, cause everything is rosy and green Well I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain

And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green

Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy Yeah, everything, yeah, yeah