Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Kevin Howes: Toronto Mike'd #1449

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

In this 1449th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with musical archaeologist Kevin Howes about his Jamaica to Toronto, Native North America and Willie Dunn compilations and so much more. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Advantaged Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball Team and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Welcome to Episode 1449 of Toronto Mike, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta! Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. The Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team,

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Today, making his Toronto Make debut is Grammy nominated musical archaeologist, Kevin Howes. Welcome, Kevin. Hello. Good morning. Alright, let's talk about names for a moment. So Shout out to FOTM Alan Zweig. How long have you known Alan? Oh geez I've known about him for longer than I've known him through his films an incredible director and He made a film back in the day called vinyl. That's the big one Yeah, he's made him a bunch of great films

But vinyls the best and I watched that in Vancouver where I was living at the time at the Pacific Cinema Tech, a great repertory cinema. And yeah, it was pretty depressing. It was a glimpse into the world of record collecting and people who have gone well over, you know, past the deep end in that world. And yeah, it was one of my friends actually that saw the movie was like he quit record collecting after watching it. He just couldn't... Scared straight. He couldn't scare straight. He couldn't deal with the darkness. Right.

But I went, I went, proceeded to go a little bit deeper myself. But no, that was my first like knowledge of Alan. And then I met him actually at the Ossington, now the now defunct Ossington bar on Ossington street in Toronto. And I was doing a DJ night at the time. This goes back to around the 2008, 2009. And I was living just a few blocks away on Beaconsfield north of the Drake Hotel. Right. And it was during this night with a fellow named Robert Dayton, ex Torontonian and Alan

came I guess Robert and Alan knew each other. And for those who don't know me, I'm into old records. My name is Kevin, I, you know, I collect a lot of these old obscure recordings which I brought to my DJ gig that night on vinyl on 45s, on LP, on 12-inch singles. Wow. And I was specifically remember playing a record by a vocal group called The Mutual Understanding. They recorded an album in 1968 called In Wonderland. This is soft pop. This is vocal, jazz, pop music. The stuff they would, this is vocal jazz pop music, the stuff

they would have played on. Easy listening in middle of the road radio stations back in the late 60s, early 70s. It was a Toronto studio thing, people like Laurie Bauer, a lot of great names involved with that project. Rick Wilkins, Ben McPeak, Jerry Toth I believe. Anyways, I was playing a song by The Mutual Understanding and Alan was really geeked out. He had never heard anyone like plumbing those devs before and like playing The Mutual Understanding in a bar lounge context and we started chatting and that was my beginnings of my friendship with Alan and then subsequently I appeared in his follow-up to vinyl records.

Right. Listen, Kevin, so I bring up Alan Zweig because he listens to Toronto Miked and he listened to an episode with Jay Douglas. I'm actually going to play a clip from this in a moment just to set us up. But he said, oh, you got to have, because here's the Jay Douglas episode in this clip I'm about to play. And then he reaches out and tells me about Kevin James Howes. Okay? So Kevin's... So is it because the actor stole Kevin James? Like you can't be, you know, the S...

You can't be Kevin James now that there's this famous actor who goes by Kevin James. I had no idea. You had no idea? Okay. I'm King of Queens. I'm here to educate you. Okay. So you go by Kevin Howes, but here's where I want to talk about names for a moment before I play the clip from Jay, which will set this up nicely

because of your involvement with Jamaica to Toronto, the compilation we talked about with Jay and so much other great stuff. I got a lot of music loaded up, but you know, you're going by voluntary in nature. I got to ask you about that, but also I noticed sometimes you go by Cipriano. So are these different personas? Are these just three names for the same dude? How does this work for you? Yeah, names that appeared through passages in time, reflections of the self, fantasy, excitement.

Well, like Cipriano was my DJ handle back in the day. I started playing records in like the mid 1990s in Vancouver. You need a name. Yeah, Kevin House, Kevin James House didn't really, you know, KJ KJ. There's been all sorts of names thrown at me over the years to I had a nickname in my younger years, Kareem. Okay, like the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Yeah, I played basketball and I was tall. That was like a high school thing in Markham. Brother Andre, Catholic high school, shout out. Brother Andre, okay, so wait a minute, you're a Vancouver guy, but you're here too? So many questions for you. I don't know, the term bi-coastal doesn't really work,

but I guess I'm like a personification of the rivalry between Toronto and Vancouver, that storm that exists. I was born in Branson Hospital at Bathurst and Finch area. And I grew up in Richmond Hill. It was the first house I lived in a block from a shopping mall that would be Hillcrest Mall and lived there with my family who have Quebec heritage and British heritage. And I guess my grandparents had moved to BC in the 70s from Montreal or Lake of two mountains and just outside. And eventually like my family, my dad through his work, he got a transfer out there and we in 1980, I was six years old at the time and we moved out to BC.

We're the same age. Oh awesome. So you're turning 50 this year? Yeah. Me too. Oh that's nice. Welcome to the club. Okay.

Wait, wait, how, like what month are you turning 50? In September, September 23rd, I share a birthday with Bruce Springsteen, which doesn't really personally chuff me too much, but the big one is John Coltrane. Listen, okay, I'm gonna get to 50 before you. In fact, here, let me, again, we're gonna come back to Cipriano, we're gonna get back to everything.

Eventually I'll play the Jay Douglas clip, I got lots of great music, lots of ground to cover, but I'm inviting you right now, this is important, okay, Kevin, I'm inviting you right now to TMLX 15 which is the Toronto Mic Listener Experience our 15th it's at Great Lakes Brewery here in southern Etobicoke on June 27 from 6 to 9 p.m. it is also my 50th birthday I will make sure your first beer is on the house I will make sure Palma Pasta feeds you you're gonna be taken care of you're gonna have a great time

You gotta be there man. It sounds awesome. I love gatherings. You gotta be there I gotta get FOTM Kevin house aka Cipriano aka voluntary in nature at TML X 15 Awesome, that sounds really good. I should like also just say like yeah the back and forth thing. So yeah, I moved there in 1980 I know we're gonna get back. I know you're eager to get back to that. No, but just move. Okay, so you're- I love a good party, trust me. That's well known across the land. It's and to celebrate a friend's 50th,

that's actually really credible. And I'll be asking, how does it feel? Yeah, and I'll let you know, and you'll know for September. Okay, so you're now moving with the family to Vancouver? Yeah, just outside, lived in a town called Port Coquitlam. Is that where Terry Fox is from? Yes, it is.

And I know this is a show for stories. I have a nut so good. Well, Terry Fox was inspiring. We would do the Terry Fox run and raise funds for cancer awareness. And many years later, I actually lost my mother to cancer. So that's a very symbolic thing but I had a late can I just break into this little Terry Fox story or have you not heard an episode of Toronto Mike I do the tangents I'm

a rambler all right I'm ready this is this is probably in like the mid 1990s I'd come of age and back living in in BC In between moving there in 1980 we we did have another return to Ontario That was we I lived in Unionville. I went to high school in Markham. This is like Brother Andre brother Andre how much I know, okay basketball Mid to late 80s just around early 90s. We were back in Ontario, but then moved back to BC. I came of age there. I ended up going to finishing high school. I broke my back in my last year of high school. That's a different story. Otherwise you'd be in the NCAA. Yeah, I played,

no actually that was a huge difference between the way people played basketball in the Toronto area compared to the Vancouver area. It was a different energy. I was a big street ball player and would play at my elementary school, John 23rd in Unionville. We'd just be playing street ball all the time. I also played for brother Andre. There was also the Mamba league, Markham Unionville, minor basketball association that I played in as well.

And my dad was doing some coaching there along with Mr. Critchlow, Dwayne Critchlow's father, who was one of my like streetball rivalries or what have you. But no, we're always playing basketball. We're always like having a good time with that. But it was a different style of playing. And when I was back in BC finishing my high school, I tried out for the basketball team and I just didn't, it was a different game, a different feel, and I actually didn't make the team. I think I was in like a minor team or something.

So you were better in Vancouver. I was better in TO. Oh, sorry, I got it all backwards. Yeah, no, it was more, better here. Cause you know, Steve Nash comes out of Victoria. Yeah, he got all the, he did read the greatest Canadian basketball player of all time. Leo Routins, maybe. I don't know. He's the kid from Keele Street or Leo Routins. So he's here. Yes. And there's also, oh, geez, I've really fallen to the wayside with my basketball,

but we would play a team, running made red men. And there was an incredible player there that, ah, I wish I could remember his name. The players back in the late eighties in the GTA were incredible. Like, oh, Rowan Barrett. Yeah, of course. Right?

So like this- His kid's a player now. Yeah, like these are Yeah, of course. Right? So like this. Is kids a player now? Yeah, like, like these are like legends of basketball. And see, I have definitely like my time for involvement was definitely in, you know, like the mid to late 80s. So some of my earliest memories are actually watching my dad play basketball. My grandmother, his mother played basketball way, way back in the day.

But I loved the Lakers I was in LA sort of prime time sure supporter showtime sorry not showtime was you know the Magic Johnson James Worthy and of course your cream right he's on that course so I had that I had a pretty good skyhook I admit like a mini skyhook as well and for the record you're six foot three I am six foot three yeah I'm so growing your hair maybe okay all right Now we lots of lots. So we basically, you're a Toronto guy who ends up in Vancouver for your, you know, I guess you come of

age in Vancouver, right? Yeah, I did. I came of age. So we were at. What does that mean? Does that mean you start dating? Like what does come of age mean? I turned 19. So that was a huge, that was a huge shift for me because by that point I was, well, intro had really developed a keen interest in music and and the idea to be able to go to a venue in Vancouver like the town pump, the late town pump or the Commodore ballroom these, you know, well established, well loved places that had music. It wasn't even at that point for me about

It wasn't even at that point for me about drinking, you know, the beer or the Long Island ice teas or whatever people were drinking at the time, the gin and tonics. But it was really about being able to go into these places and experience, see, hear bands that I had been following for years on much music. Well, do you want to shout out some of your favorite bands you'd see at the Commodore Ballroom or wherever? I'm kind of curious. Well, my first- We're out some of your favorite, uh, bands you'd see at the Commodore ballroom or wherever I'm the same vintage. I got to hear these bands. My first, yeah, no, I have to remember that too. My first was, um, and I will get back to the Terry Fox story. Sorry. My mind just goes,

but you're in the right place. But yeah, my first show at the Commodore, I was actually underage and I, sneaking in isn't the right term, but it was, uh, it was the Beastie Boys on your, on the check your head tour. And as I walked into the, to the zone where we're at now, there's a little sign to check your head, to watch your head because, uh, you know, it's a little bit of a, you could hit your head otherwise. You would at six foot three and so with Stu Stone at five foot seven So it was I was in my last year of high school and they had a newspaper Sort of akin to what Toronto houses the now Toronto we have that had the jar and they have the Georgia straight, right?

Which I turn it of weekly alternative weekly. I later worked there for six years have a background in journalism, but the at the time I was a reader every week and they distribute these all over the lower mainland in Vancouver and This is sort of pre internet times so this is where we look to for information about concerts and events and movies and Local excitement culture, you know, there's also politics and you know, they had. Well, let me shout out Michael Hallett, who's an FOTM and he's the guy behind NOW and he's got a new project now because NOW is gone. Yes.

They sold the URL and the logo essentially, but the current NOW bears no resemblance to the NOW of our youth. Interesting. Yeah, I enjoyed the NOW and my times here and that goes back to, I remember, I remember taking a photo I still have the issue but with Jay Douglas on the cover, but alongside the legend himself Earl the mighty Pope Hedrum People out there know them of the mighty Pope. This is a true legend in Canadian music history and soul music Also from Jamaica, Lucy, Jamaica. But, uh, yeah, the Georgia straight was, uh, it was a great, uh, the end of now, these were really important pre internet.

This is where we learned about stuff and you know, there was music sections and record reviews and I'd follow this stuff and, and weekly and one day I guess it was like, you see the ad coming soon to the Collodore the Beastie Boys and they had you were just about to release their nuts isn't that too small a venue for them at the check your head tour well that was the sort of beginning of their of their ascent back into but Licensed to Ill was like a number one album yeah it was it was massive I think it sold like I could be wrong like 25 million copies or something like that commercial Commercial letdown, although we love it, is Paul's Boutique.

100%. And then you're right, now you're back. Pass the mic and what you want. Yeah, they weren't starting from the beginning, but they were definitely, they were definitely. Rebuilding, reloading. Yeah, they were reloading. They had sort of fallen off commercially.

Paul's Boutique was a failure, but yes, a cult classic and underground. Now it has its place in the pantheon of great records or what have you. But I guess at Check Your Head as well, they were returning to their punk roots and their earlier roots. So they were actually playing music again, in terms of like drums, bass, guitar, not like sample-based hip-hop and rapping and rhyming and stuff. You know, that is still my favorite Beastie Boys album is Check Your Head. I just, the whole thing, just love all of it.

Oh, it's killer. So like I was well excited about that concert announcement, but you looked into it a little bit deeper and it's like, oh, it's at this place called the Commodore Ballroom. You learn that it's like a ballroom that had been existing since the 1920s at least. Used to have an incredible spring loaded dance floor with like horse hair and tires underneath. And you could actually bounce like a horsehair and tires underneath and you know you could actually bounce like

a foot off of it if you were if someone had jumped like maybe like six feet away in the right place and you were standing in the right place you'd actually get launched into the air like when when it was really heaving this is also pre renovation that happened like years after but anyway saw this ad holy, the Beastie Boys are coming. I'm going to get tickets. Oh, fuck. It's 19 plus. Right. I'm not old enough. I'm in my last year of high school. I'm like 17 or 18 or whatever it is at the time. And, you know, I think you might have even needed a credit card to buy tickets. I can't remember how it worked. Um, now you didn't need credit card back then. I don't think, no, you go to the mall. You got a line up. I mean, at least I think in that era, if,

cause I was buying lots of tickets, I think you got a wristband, right? Didn't you go to the, like the outlet and the ticket master, like get a wristband and then they say, come back Saturday morning at 10 AM. And then they did a lottery to see who's first in line. There was stuff like that happening. I also remember like sleeping out on the street, right a block from the Pacific Cinema Tech actually was a ticket master thing in Vancouver

off Davey and Howe Street or something. And we were lining up overnight to get tickets for the Colton Lenny Kravitz. Wow. Back in the early 90s. But I think the way I remember it, I was like, Oh, I got to go to this concert. And I think maybe I asked my dad to buy the tickets on his credit card or something like that. Sure. Anyways, we got, I got two tickets to the

Beastie Boys at the Commodore knowing that I was underage and knowing that it was a gamble. It was like, you know, but you are six foot three. We were throwing girl mustang. Oh man, I was so skinny that and the it was a hell of a Mary. Just just, you know, there wasn't I wasn't going to miss the opportunity to to see that show. So weeks and weeks later, it's the day of the show and I go downtown early with my friend Dave Hollington. of the show and I go downtown early with my friend Dave Hollington and we actually bumped into Ad Rock and Mike D at the late Collector's RPM record store at Pender and Seymour, right on the corner. They used to have a Beatles museum and they're in a Kiss museum. It's

sort of a legendary spot. It was owned by an old cantikorous British dude. And anyways, it was where we, you know, some of my earliest crate digging was done in there. I still have a record that I purchased there as a white label LP by this group called the Scadalites. One of the... I know, I remember the Scadalites. ... one of the inventor of ska music from from Jamaica and who I actually got to see in concert just a little bit after that era. But anyways, we met Mike D and Ad Rock in the

shop. They were digging there. They really inspired me to look for old records and the whole process of sampling that was coming out of New York and hit the hip hop sort of explosion. public enemy, boogie down productions, big daddy Kane, Bismarck, he like, here's on, check your head, beastie boys on there. Of course, all the, that was really inspiring that, you know, people were producers were taking these old records and, you know, and like some of the stuff that I had in my family's record collection, things that my parents had, Isaac Hayes records, Jimi Hendrix, what have you,

and taking these little snippets from these old records and making new rhythm tracks with them for MCs to, you know, rap over. And it was, I found that so incredible. So yeah, I'm there with Mike D and Ad Rock and we were pretty nervous. Okay, so Kevin, sorry. Yeah.

I'm gonna just help guide you along only because I realized what's gonna happen is it's gonna hit, we're gonna hit noon and I'll be like, oh yeah, we never got to these compilations. Okay, so I'm gonna help you out here. Okay, so hold my hand This is gonna be a journey I do need that Terry Fox story because we teased it but is this the dawn like the birth of Cipriano and what the hell? Yeah, Cipriano mean for sure. Well, like it's like we talked to Mike D and ad rock saying, you know, we're underage We want we got tickets to your concert and like, you know,

really hope we can get in or whatever. And like, it's sort of like, well, we'll make sure your name's at the door or whatever. I had a doctored learner's permit. I didn't have my driver's license yet. I had this yellow sheet of paper that I literally like took out the white out and a pen and an exacto knife. And I'd fududge this learner's permit

and walk up the steps to the Commodore. There's a huge bouncer waiting at the top for me to ask for my ID and I go into my pocket and my hands shaking and I sort of show it to him. I said, we saw the Beastie Boys earlier. They might've left our names. He looks at my ID, he puts it back and he says, go right on in. Wow. And I was like, I went right to the bathroom. I'm like, I was like, and then I look over and then David just come right in. He got into and he was, he was a short fellow. It

was a miracle he got in there. But then maybe the Beastie Boys helped us that night, but we went in and it was like the wildest thing. That was my first like con like, you know, legal age concert, even though I was underage and it sort the wildest thing. That was my first like legal age concert, even though I was underage. And it sort of set it off. That was a huge like formative moment for me. Cypriano was born that night. Collecting these records.

No, that came later, but it's like I'm collecting these old records and you need a DJ name. And Cypriano came from Jamaica. It came from Lee Perry. These were the sounds that I was playing in my early days. I was collecting old Jamaican was playing in my early days. I was collecting old Jamaican records in Vancouver in those days and I had a girlfriend at the time whose father owned a record store in Scarborough back in the day, Ron Lou Records, and he had a

record label. He was also not a present father, but he had left his record collection with my friend Tanis and the mother. And eventually Tannis like got rid of some of the records and I acquired a whole bunch of these very like obscure and now rare Jamaican records, ska, rock, steady, reggae, soul, funk. So I basically had a record collection that was pretty deep in my younger years. And Cipriano was just a name that came up in Lee Perry, Upsetter's songs.

I liked the ring of it. And Cipriano was born. Yeah. Okay. Then we got Cipriano. Now, how long? I do want the Terry Fox story, but then we're going to come back to Jamaica to Toronto. And I really want to play this Jay Douglas clip and then kind of set this up with this.

This is all like the pregame show. And then Alan Zweig, wag of course comes back into play Because he hears Jay Douglas talking and you're gonna hear the clip and it goes a couple of minutes and then we're gonna talk About Jamaica to Toronto, but give me that Terry Fox story Oh just it was like late night like I grew up in Poco in the 80s So I was aware that Terry Fox was buried up Oxford Street on and a hill on this Graveyard at the top of this big hill.

It's BC, so it's majestic. There's mountains everywhere, forests. It's beautiful. So one night, a group of friends, we were sort of getting a little loose and we decided that let's go see Terry Fox's grave. So we went up to the grave and I guess we were just checking out the grave and just doing like stuff you do in your early twenties goofing around, cracking jokes, whatever, maybe having a drink or two. And, um,

maybe we were causing a bit of a ruckus and there's not houses super close, but you know, close enough by, I guess, or they monitor the graveyard and, and lo and behold, um, police car pulls into the graveyard and drives up to us. We, you know, I personally see the cop car and I split into the bushes, but a couple of the friends didn't move so fast

and they actually had to spend the night in jail. Secret ground. Yeah, it's like, don't go there at night and don't mess. We were being respectful like you know all due respect to Terry Fox you know what a what a true hero. No absolutely I mean since we're the same age I know your memories of that run that really affected me that that early the early 80s run and then learning he had passed away really affected me for the rest of

my life. I do the Terry Fox run every single year. Oh that's incredible., that's really good. That's good that you do that. I think that's awesome. And thank you for doing that. It's incredible. Terry Fox, of course, huge hero. Oh, for me, like in terms of like, Ben Johnson was big for me. So I got a tease. I just was chatting with Mary Ormsby, who wrote for the Toronto Star forever. And Mary Ormsby just wrote a book on Ben and how he probably got even, you know, he probably didn't get, I don't want to tease it. Here's how I'll tease it. I do want to tease it. I don't want to spoil it, but Mary Ormsby will return to Toronto Mic'd in April to do an episode all about Ben Johnson and how he might not have got

the proper process he was entitled to and got maybe screwed over in some regards but Ben Johnson discussion with Mary Ormsby on Toronto mic coming soon interesting topic is that does another by the way that is that's in can these they need these moments affected us right Ben 88, I think it was 88. So we're like 14 years old when Ben wins gold and we've never been prouder, never been happier. Then a couple of days later, you're like just the opposite. No, that was so intense. And so I was so my thoughts on nationalism in Canada and what that represents, even what

it means has shifted a lot over the years. But in that moment, as a young teen, it was my first experience of nationalism and how proud I felt, even though of course, Ben has great Jamaican heritage as well, it was really a celebration for Jamaica and Canada. But in that moment, yeah, I'd never felt, that was my first sense of feeling pride about being Canadian, whatever that meant in that moment, yeah, I'd never felt, that was my first sense of feeling pride about being Canadian, whatever that meant in that moment. And then it all came crashing down. And if you've seen that there's a great documentary, which I'm sure this, I'm already excited.

The 30 for 30, right? Yeah, and that really gets into the nitty gritty, interviews all the people that Ben was racing with that day. And yeah, it's just a sad. And then how that then spiraled into the next years and subsequent years for Ben. And it was just, yeah, he's still a hero to me. Well, to bring this story full circle, I produce a show for Donovan Bailey. So once a week,

Donovan's in the basement here. He sits, sits right there, Jason Portuano there. So, you know, Donovan Bailey, eight years later, is the fastest man in the world, wins gold, does it clean. I feel like that for a nation, like that was kind of part of the healing was that was what Donovan Bailey did for this country in 1996 in Atlanta. Yeah, that's beautiful. Shout out to Donovan Bailey. That's in Jamaica right now. That's awesome and really cool to be sitting with also like where you've had so many great people roll through like I'm definitely aware of the program and like honored to be sitting here.

Well thanks for that. Okay Kevin so here's what we do. I'm gonna play a couple minutes of Jay Douglas just because I like hearing him talk. It's it kind of calms me. Although you have a nice pattern to you where I'm kind of feeling myself chilling out too. So thank you for that. Now here's Jay Douglas on Toronto Mic'd and this will set things up. So just imagine Alan Zweig listening to this because he listens to Toronto Mic'd. So hello to Alan, a good FOTM himself. Alan Zweig hears this and then he reaches out to me. I'll see you on the other side. When we did the Jamaica the Toronto, this song was on the compilation.

And when it got into the States, one journalist from out the West Coast, they said they didn't know such kind of soul music would come from the Northlands when they heard this song. And you said, well, it's coming from Montego Bay, is what you said there. So tell me about this compilation, Jamaica to Toronto.

Like, tell me how that came to be and what that is for those who maybe haven't heard it yet. Jamaica to Toronto came about because of a young man who's from Montego Bay. We did talent shows in Montego Bay. Wayne McGee. And he came to Canada. He was a member of Jojo Bennett's band we did talent shows in Montego Bay, Wayne McGee. And he came to Canada, he was a member of a JoJo

Bennett's band at the time, was called Fugitive. That's the band. And after a while he went and changed the name to the Satellites with Fergus Hamilton. Of course. So, one evening as I was getting ready for having my supper, the phone rang, it was a call from Seattle. And it was, did I speak to Jay Douglas?

I say, yeah, this is Jay. Well, we're trying to, is this Jay? I say, yeah, well is Jay. Well, we're trying to, is this Jay? I say, yeah. Well, we're trying to find, I'm Matt Sullivan from Light in the Attic music. And we've been trying for quite a while to find Wayne McGee.

And we're not having any success, but we were directed to find you. This is our last chance to find Wayne McGee. So I got, I said, Wayne, is he okay? to find you, this is our last chance to find Wayne McGee. So I got, I said Wayne, is he okay? He said well we don't know, we're trying to find him. Now, here's a brother, we grew up together, Italian shows, I haven't seen him for a while.

So I got a little concerned. Anyway, took me about three or four months to find, he was in an apartment over in East York. And when I spoke to him, he was not the same. He didn't have no interest in the music. He wasn't talking about the old days when it, so I found out that he has some challenges. But anyway, how I found him, I found him through his sister. And some other help that I got from Montego Bay. So, I called Lightning Attic and said,

hey guys, I found it. And they go, oh Jay, I hope you're not pulling our legs now, man. This is serious I said by the way, what's wrong? What why you all went in the early years? There was a studio called Sound Canada For whatever reason he got in there Without any much money or funds and got an album out of them those days

Nobody did unless you Sam I'm out town but he did because he was a shop shooter and and Wayne the album was called Wayne McGee and the sounds of joy and then that track There was a track called dirty funk Now listen to me my brother. We did not that track, the drummer was Everton Pablo Paul. He did not know he was creating hip hop. So this track got the studio caught fire. Few of those albums got out.

This one ended up on the West Coast. If you own a copy of that Sounds of Joy, you're sitting on a lot of money. And the hip hop kids out there heard the track and they wanted to cover the track, but you know, they have to get permission from the owner, which was Wayne McGee. We found him and I said, look guys, I found him.

What are you gonna do? So what do you suggest? I said, you need to get to Toronto now, right away. So they booked the next flight into Toronto and what do you suggest? I said you need to get to Toronto now right away. So they booked the next flight into Toronto and what do you know? They got here it's a worse snowstorm. I was so embarrassed for these kids but it didn't stop them. They got their map, they rent a SUV. All right so that's Jay Douglas on Toronto Mic. That was like I don't know eight episodes ago. Yeah seven episodes ago. I think it was like 1442 or something like the super ego episode, the super ego, no

pun intended. All right. So when we there's a lot of ground to cover here, this is why you're here, Kevin, but Alan thinks you were the guy calling J. Oh, I know. I think it was a journalist because Seattle, uh, possibly. I want to hear the story here and then I maybe, were the guy calling Jay? Oh I know I think it was a journalist because... Seattle? Possibly. I want to hear the story here and then I maybe you know what... Well just just in that like I was I produced I produced and conceived the album Jamaica to Toronto not trying to take any you know shine in regards to the music there because my work would never be possible without...

My work in archival music production and liner note writing, which I've been nominated for two Grammys for, would not be possible without the incredible music made by artists like Jay and, of course, the insanely talented Wayne McGee. Now, so a couple of things for those who haven't heard the Jay Douglas episode. The song we were talking about off the top, here I'll play a bit of that quickly when we talk about it. But it was the Cougars.

And Jay Douglas sings on the Cougars. We'll get a little taste of this and we'll talk about the album you're holding and we'll talk about Wayne and we'll talk about this great compilation from Jamaica to Toronto. I know that you might sound strange, but I wish it would rain. I wish that it would rain. Oh, so badly, I want to go outside. outside but everybody knows that girl ain't supposed to cry you see i gotta cry cause So, Kevin, I almost need to go back actually before we go forward, but how does Light in

the Attic, what role do they play? How, like you have this idea, like we should put out a Jamaica Tetron, like give me the origin story on the compilation and then maybe we could talk a little Cougars and Wayne McGee and you're holding in your hand that worth a lot of money says Jay Douglas, how much money is that album worth that's in your hand, Wayne McGee?

Oh, this is just the reissue, so. Reissue, okay, so 10 bucks. No, no. Records are expensive these days. Are they? Yeah. I only get them gifted to me so I have no idea. Yeah, you go to Sonic Boom, go to Kops Records if you're looking for vinyl records in the city of Toronto. They've got lots. Okay, talk to me about Jamaica to Toronto, the compilation. Well, like Jay Jay said it really does go back to Wayne McGee. Wayne had recorded this album in Toronto way back in the day after not too long after coming to Canada and he got into the studio because he was for lack of better words a shit hot singer, songwriter, guitar player, par excellence, and he had a unique sound, a unique voice. He wasn't just a carbon copy nightclub singer,

lounge singer, he was a songwriter, he was a composer. And he recorded this album, Wayne McGee and the Sounds of Joy, and it featured, yes, Everton Pablo Paul with his essential drum breaks and drum beats, Lloyd Del Prat, Alton Ellis, Dizzy Barker, a great number of incredible musicians that had made that journey from Jamaica to Toronto in the late 60s. And this was a mythical record. It was pressed in small numbers.

It didn't sell well at the time, but yes amongst hip-hop circles and producers and DJs in the 90s and in the early 2000s this became a real hot record. They were, it was selling hands like for in the hundreds of dollars at big record shows in New York City the record had trickled down there and it also, copies had made it out west. And two people that bought that record way back in the day, or some of the early people that got hip to that record was DJ Mr. Supreme and DJ Shershot of, at the time, a group called

the Sharpshooters, who were actually signed to Light in the Attic Records. They have a great album called Twice is Nice. It's out of print, but it was a killer sort of hip-hop, instrumental hip-hop album. They were sort of known for combining jazz and hip-hop, but through record collecting and through DJing, I got to know Supreme and Shureshot, and we were trading and selling records to each other and later DJing with each other occasionally. But these were like legends and became mentors to me in a way. They hit me to a lot of game in regards to records

and different styles of music. So in the early days of Light in the Attic, which is a Seattle-based record label, Matt Sullivan, Josh Wright, and Unnamed Partner as well, there were sort of college radio dudes or whatever and they wanted to start a reissue label and Matt had worked for a label in Spain and sort of wanted to start put out some old obscure music. They started with I think the Last Poets and the Free Design. Free Design has a Toronto connection, shout out to the late Chris Dedrick and his family, a vocal group that were incredible, recorded for Enoch's Enoch Lights Project 3 record label in the 60s. You know, you want to get

Arkane? Let's do it. You're in the right spot, man. I'm just, I'm a sponge here. I'm just absorbing. I love this. The free design did Kites are fun. You can Google that, you can Spotify it, you can YouTube it. That'll give you a sense of some of the music that Light in the Attic was reissuing when they first started. But saying Supreme and Shureshot, these are some of the heaviest cats I've ever met in terms of collecting old records, soul, funk, psychedelic, you name it, Jamaican music, African, records from around the world, deep, deep records. These guys were known for collecting these records and sampling them. Suprema Shurshod had brought a stack of really obscure old records to light in the attic for

potential reissue because I guess they were sort of putting the word out like, well, we want to reissue some stuff, but they weren't like really big record heads themselves. They were music lovers, appreciators, but Suprema Shurshod, they had all the hot wax. So they brought a stack including Wayne McGee and The Sounds of joy I think the Lila soundtrack which was done by the incredible drummer Bernard Purdy who recorded with everyone from Aretha Franklin He also says he played on Beatles records, but that's a whole other episode We got Robert Lawson in the bushes if we need to check into that one But can we spell McGee because I would say I struggled with this because I, I remember Willie McGee, great baseball player.

Different spelling small M small C G H I E. Yeah. So when you're Googling Wayne McGee, just get that McGee right. Cause you're going to want to do it. The Willie McGee. And once again, like Wayne McGee's music is all over the internet. It's on Spotify. It's on Apple Music, you name it, including an unreleased album that through voluntary in nature we've recently released digitally working on a physical, it's called Wayne 76. So you can hear his follow up to the Sounds of Joy album.

But Light in the Attic fell in love with this when Supreme and Sure Shot brought the record to them. They wanted to reissue it. But like Jay says, Wayne was nowhere to be found. They needed, Lightning Attic needed the permission and blessing for the album reissued to go ahead. It wasn't a bootleg operation thankfully and they wanted to ensure that you know Wayne could receive money for his work and what have you. So the hunt for Wayne, the search for Wayne began sort of like searching for Sugarman.

Well, we're gonna get to that man. Spoiler or teaser, I guess, suppose, because I'm gonna be playing a little Sugarman later. Another great quest for... We just lost him too. Shout out to Ridley funeral home. Yeah, shout out to Rodriguez and his family and community in Detroit. Absolutely. Yeah, Wayne was nowhere to be found. And there's actually a story that, you know,

you know, saying we can get into the nitty gritty and it's actually a pretty awesome story is that, um, when the attic fell in love with the record, they didn't know anything about it. They didn't know who the artists were. They didn't know any of the names. They didn't know the label and sure shot and Supreme, they had the record, but they didn't

know too much either. But they said hit up Cipriano, hit up Kevin in Vancouver. Kevin in Vancouver. And that he can, he's the guy and he can help you out. Because you're like a musical archaeologist, not to bury the lead here, but again, we kind of, we skipped a bit of time, but you're, this is, this is your thing, man. You're a musical archaeologist. In those days, I was just a DJ. You know, like I had a record collection

and I'd play them at bars and clubs in art gallery spaces into the wee hours of the morning and we'd trip the light fandango and we'd have a blast and try to get people dancing and moving, you know, I can never. Is it fandango or fantastic? I don't know, I just said it. Okay, I love that line, but if people are

continuing to get the light fandango. We danced but it's all about the dancing still like getting into those nightclubs at 19 was all about the dancing. It wasn't about the drink. It wasn't about the peripheral stuff. It was just like moving to music. And that continues to this day, thankfully keep moving out there people. But yeah, I did know something about this record. I knew the label as a student of Canadian music that ties into my mentor, Ty's, the late Ty Scamil, who sort of put me down my path looking for obscure and regional Canadian music, things that didn't necessarily hit the charts, but were meaningful musically, culturally.

And this was became my passion to learn more about that. So I told Light in the Attic what I knew about the album about the album, which helped them, you know, but still like, and I, and I was on, I was on the prowl looking for where Wayne was as well. I think, you know, they were looking in hospital records, they're looking, you know, he had died, he had, he, he, whatever, like there's so many rumors and myths about where Wayne had gone. And sometimes this is like when I tell this story, it's sort of like, it's one of these things that has, it does have a spiritual component to it as

well. I had been telling some of my friends in Toronto, because I was living in Vancouver at the time, right? Just three hours north of Seattle where Light in the Attic is based. Right. And I was reaching out to a couple tight friends in Toronto saying, look, I've like been linked with this record label in Seattle. They want to reissue the Sounds of Joy. Everyone knows about the record. Hardly anyone had it.

I didn't have an original copy myself at the time. I didn't have a copy of it. I was, I was looking for it, but I knew of it. And I had been asking around trying to find one of these elusive copies. But anyways, I spread the word out and one person I told was a good friend of mine to this day named Derek Hersey and a fellow record collector and DJ. And in a few, a few years before he was living in Vancouver briefly,

and we were in a rock and roll band together called the afterglow and which morphed into a group called the alpha five. And we were playing in the bars in night spots of Vancouver. I was the drummer, Derek was a rhythm guitarist. He was missing his Ontario life, a girlfriend he had at the time. It didn't last too long in Vancouver, moved back, but we kept in touch. Also, he's a nutter for records. He was doing a bit of DJing too.

So I told him, yeah, link with this label. We're looking for Wayne McGee. Can you keep your eyes open? Can you ask around a little bit in your trials when you go to the record stores or if you talk to people from the Caribbean community, any which way. I think him and his future now wife were at a wedding of a friend. were at a wedding of a friend and there was a band performing at the wedding. And Jay thought the band were pretty... I mean, Derek's... Spoiler alert, spoiler alert. I knew, don't worry. Whatever, it's coming soon. I'll fix it in post. Coming soon to a theater near you. But this is the untold stories, the raw uncut stuff.

So Derek, there's a band and it was Jay Douglas performing, but Derek didn't know Jay Douglas from Adam or whatever. He walks up to Jay, because I guess maybe he had played a reggae song or two, or maybe he had shared that he was from- Maybe he talked about the Cougars. From Montego Bay, maybe he talked, no, in those days, I don't think he was talking about the Cougars.

That came later. That came with this, the album and stuff, I think. Right, to make it in Toronto. You know, he was Jay and still like, you know, he's playing at the Old Mill, he's playing it, he's doing different functions, you know. He was playing on the cruise ships for years and stuff. And he was a great, great singer and entertainer.

Yes. Great, great fellow. But the, Derek went up and started talking to him and then started asking him about many artists from back in the day in Toronto because he probably said, Oh, he's active in the seventies or whatever. He's asking about Wayne McGee is asking about Frank Motley, who, who was the band leader for Jackie Shane.

If you know the story in a documentary, there's a documentary that's that Rob Bowman, Rob Bowman must've been on the show. Yes, indeed. When you put out the FOTN. What was the book he helped that gentleman write? I got a book, The Ticket Stubs, and it'll come to me in a moment. He came on promoting that, which is a great book. I don't know why I'm struggling to remember the name. I'll Google it in a minute. But anyway, which way like that's the Jackie Shane thing. And Rob was involved in writing the liner notes for the Jackie Shane album and was obviously I think involved with the film, which is nice

that they brought him on board. The flyer vault. Yeah the flyer vault is and expert Rob Oman being an expert on Jackie Shane that he was actually an integral part of the film. I thought that was really respectful and cool and maybe a work opportunity for him as well. But anyway, Derek's asking Jay, picking his brain. Do you know Frank Motley? Do you know Don Carrington? Do you know Wayne McGee? And when Jay hears the name Wayne McGee, his eyes light up.

Wayne McGee, oh my brother. You know, from back in the day, I haven't seen him for so long. It's like, and Derek says, oh, my friend, Kevin West has been looking for Wayne with this record label light in the attic and, um, eventually, you know, all the connections are being made. And then I connect, you know, through Derek, I connect Jay with light in the attic records and, and this is sort of the story, how it went down. And in a way, it's phenomenal. It was all through Derek attending this wedding, right? So this

is the thing. It's like, you can't even write this script. It's like pure spirituality. Was it meant to happen? There's something beyond all of us really. But the foundation is exactly what Jay said, Wayne McGee. The music of Wayne McGee is what created all this. So yes, I'm working, I'm sitting at my office job at the Georgia Strait as the editorial assistant of the Georgia Strait at the time, also a journalist and writer and music and film. And I'm receiving these phone calls from Derek and talking to light in the attic. I'm supposed to be working. And I'm fielding only with time zones and I'm fielding

all these calls and we're trying to find Wayne. And then eventually it did take a few months, as Jay mentioned in the episode and through Wayne's sister who have to say her name, Merlene. Wayne's sister who I have to say her name Merlene. Merlene, you know, Jade connected with Merlene, Wayne's sister, who, an angel actually. And then all the connections were made. I get that call. We found Wayne. I call Matt.

They found, they found Wayne. Matt, Matt Sullivan and I immediately buy plane tickets to Toronto. I did this on my own dime as well. I buy tickets to Toronto and we go to meet this elusive, mysterious, magical, majestic Wayne McGee. And that story of meeting Wayne for the first time was, yes, there was a snore snowstorm involved and I wrote about it in the liner notes to the

reissue that I'm holding that was put out in the Attic in 2004 it came out. Okay, okay, 20th anniversary. Yeah, 20th anniversary. On the 10th anniversary there was a record store day reissue of the reissue on orange vinyl, so with a gatefold sleeve, which a beautiful, with a beautiful and I wrote a little addendum to the notes and as things unfold, we learn more. But that was a beautiful thing, but meeting Wayne was awesome and Jay was, Jay was right there. But Matt brought a guitar on this trip to meet Wayne and presented it to Wayne. I brought a small turntable and a box of records. And basically, those are the records that became Jamaica to Toronto. So it was a huge snowstorm, literally. Like Jay wasn't lying. It was like one of these Toronto snowstorms where it's like,

you know, feet of snow., and Matt did literally peel out the SUV on the Gardner, 180 degrees. And we almost died. Oh my God. Going to meet, you know, Wayne McGee, Wayne McGee. See, this is a documentary. Like I, you know, we'll talk later about searching for a sugar man, but really searching for Wayne McGee.

Do you wish you had cameras rolling? Well, I wish you knew Alan's wife and he had his crew there. Yeah, but some things also are best in the moment I feel like. I took a couple photos. I took a and also back in the day like the the story the original you know they didn't have cameras. I didn't even have my first cell phone till 2010. Yeah, I wasn't far this was 2003 2004 when this is all happening. We weren't documenting things. There was no video being taken on those old blackberries.

The way we are now, you know, it just, in a way, and it's beautiful, but then it gets to the point where it's like, did it even exist if there's no footage? Right, yeah. Like that's a whole other, like we can theorize about that and debate that, but I'm, you know, bless the people who had the resources to document. Well, we're sort of, that's me. I'm sort of, cause I mean, I'm getting Jay's account and now I've got. Well, there is, there is, I think there is a, there is a doc, I've heard, I've heard rumblings. There is a documentary being made about Jay, ties into Jay's narrative. I

don't know if you shared that on the episode, but it's, it's, it's in the works to my understanding. By any chance does a, does Ed Conroy play a role in this by any chance? What do you know? What can you tell me? Is there any, I don't know, is there a Joe Goldberg component to this? I need to know what's going on. What do you know? Talking to me? Yeah. Other names I'm afraid. I don't know. Like this, Kevin is mysterious actor, Kevin James, how's it Kevin? How's it Kevin? James, listen, Kevin James.

I only know this because for I don't know. I can't remember the circumstances, but between marriages, this is a sad story. I had a couple of months where I was like sleeping in my mom's basement and every night she watched King of Queens and I would never like be exposed to the show, except it's a transition period of my life. OK, Kevin, we've all had these periods in our lives. And I remember I, you know, hang out with her for a bit watching these, I think, back to back reruns of King of Queens. And it's like, I'm like, I'm too cool into like this garbage. And I'm watching. I'm like,

yeah, I dig this. I get the vibe here. You know, you shut out the pattern as well to had a role on that show. But yeah, Kevin James was the star of a king of queen. Oh, that's right. And really interesting. Like for me, like on Facebook, like going back like at the beginning of Facebook or whatever prior to that, there was a thing called Friendster. Maybe the older people out there don't know about Friendster or my space or whatever, but it was, you know, anyways, and it's become so mainstream. It's, it's taken over our lives, but I didn't want to just put Kevin house. I'm not like, I was just like, I'm going to be a little bit different or like maybe my name,

it would stand out a bit more. Maybe there's other Kevin house. I'll say Kevin James house. And it just, that's why I started using that. It's not like, I thought maybe you had to give it up when the other Kevin James stole your SEO thunder. No, no, there's no great story, but, but it was awesome meeting Wayne for the first time. It was, it was absolutely incredible because we got through this, you know, we're going through

the snowstorm, we get to the large apartment building where Wayne was. I think we met Jay, Jay Douglas had driven there independently and Matt and Jay and I were meeting for the first time as well. Um, like I said, um, we go up this apartment building, 10th floor, ninth floor floor, what have you, and then walking down the hallways and we hear like, you know, music coming from different apartments and

smelling, you know, like reggae music and different things coming through different apartments. And it was like, we were, I was nervous, you know, I can just speak for myself, I guess. I was actually nervous to meet Wayne because all these myths and rumors, the importance of the music and knock on the door. And Wayne opens the door and he just puts his hand out to shake our hand. And at the same time, there's this beautiful aroma of curry pouring out of the apartment as well. And Merlene had been cooking a beautiful meal for everybody and shook Wayne's hand and went inside and like Wayne unfortunately had fallen on some child had some mental health challenges and health challenges so he wasn't really like super talkative

or chatty he sort of yeah he had hard times in the early 80s and just serious mental health issues, had developed schizophrenia and it was sad, but we were able to talk to him and to get his blessing and consent to share the music. And Matt was very thoughtful and had brought an acoustic guitar because we had learned that Wayne hadn't played guitar in 20, 30 years or what have you. So, Matt, out of the kindness of his heart, brought this guitar and Wayne picked up the guitar. He sort of tuned it for a second, maybe strummed it once and then just sort of put it on the chair, put it down. But that was really powerful moment.

And then I had brought this portable turntable that I had bought in Tokyo in like 97. I used to go to Japan for record stuff and just there's the whole, the Japanese story and connection is part, big part of my life. But I bought this little portable turntable that I had brought to meet Wayne and also with a box of 45 life, but I bought this little portable turntable that I had brought to meet Wayne

and also with a box of 45s, all the Jamaican-Canadian music I had been collecting over the years and had been DJing at that point. And we're all sitting around this sort of kitchen sort of table. Merlene had made this beautiful meal for us and we're eating home-cooked Jamaican food and it was just lovely and then I pull out the turntable and started like, let's listen to some music and started playing some of these old vinyl records. And you know, there's Wayne, his sister, Roland, Merlene's husband, different family members were there. And there wasn't

a dry eye in the house. Like Wayne hadn't heard his music in, in, in since it was recorded pretty well and Jay hadn't heard, you know, like nobody had heard these records in years. And, um, the music is, is so, was so alive coming out of the speaker and saying, we were all in tears listening to these records. And, uh, and that was the birth of Jamaica to Toronto.

I looked over at Matt and sort of like, you know, gave each other a knowing wink. We were there to reissue the Wayne McGee album, which, which I would then, it was then on board as the liner note writer, um, and getting down, helping to get down some of Wayne's story, you know, which I wrote about in, in, on the reissue, um, but then having collected all and

know and known like growing up in Markham as well and knowing the, knowing about in, on the reissue. Um, but then having collected all and know, and known like growing up in Markham as well and knowing the, knowing about the Jamaican and Caribbean community here, you know, and like, and collecting records by the artists like Jackie Matu, uh, studio one music director in the sixties before he came to Canada and just like one of the most seminal artists of all time. And, um, saying I had, I had these records and we were listening to them and it was clear what the next steps were to be between myself and Light in the Attic was for me to produce this record.

But this is going back, like when I was young, I was probably in my early 30s at the time and I don't even think I was properly credited on the album. But I… No, I think Cipriano… It says compiled by Cipriano and Light in the Attic. Light in the Attic didn't have anything to do in compiling this record. And also I don't even think I got a...

I produced the record and I don't even think I got a production credit. This is like... We're here to crack the record. Yeah, just to lay it down. Cause I don't even think... Rosie Great Tio, let's get that Wiki updated. Some of the musicians and people involved with this project,

like I'm still like, it is setting the record straight in a way because I don't think they actually know what I did. Like light in the attic. It wouldn't have been possible without light in the attic. They, they, they were the bank, they funded it. They helped pay for PR to promote it. And it was great. It was a, so that's essentially the label. Yeah, that was the record label. And you know, and even the, but you're doing all the legwork, you're, you're assembling it.

Yeah. And, and, and Matt was more but you're doing all the legwork. Like you're, you're assembling it. Yeah. And, and, and Matt was more involved in those days as later he became, cause I, I worked on over 20 records with them in my time and it sort of devolved, it evolved into like, you know, a working relationship where we, there was a lot, I was very generous with light in the attic in my time. Um, well, there are a couple I'm going to ask you about, but I'm dying to play some Wayne McGee. So we've, I'm dying to play some Wayne McGee so we've kind of built up Wayne McGee so here's some again maybe there won't be a dry eye in this

room let me listen to this. I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a Here we go When you left you took Better off with me with you Now you're here and there's a brand new me

Here we go You gave me strength to face the world I've been running away from for so long Time has been really good to me You came back really neat Here we go again Making love as if we've never been apart Making love I hope we never stop

Here we go Here we go again Making love as if we've never been apart Making love I hope we never stop Here we go Ooh baby Yeah Uh Here we go again

I really love you baby Making love was it was never meant for us Making love I hope we never stop Ooh baby Here we go. Don't stop, baby. I know. So long.

Here we go again. I wanna feel your love. Baby, baby, baby. Just making love. I hope we never stop. Don't stop, baby. Here we go again. So Kevin, I want to give you kudos because what you're doing, I think, is really important. I had a conversation very recently with a gentleman named Sean Burns, and he's been

trying to help people rediscover what he calls Canada's lost country. So the country music that maybe has been overlooked or lost through time, he's trying to shine a light on it. And I absolutely love what you did in this compilation, Jamaica to Toronto. It's fantastic. And so many people like myself are only hearing these songs now because you put in that effort.

No, that's the thing that's really, yeah, like just hearing that song and hearing it with headphones actually is unique. Cause I don't often listen to music with headphones and to hear the voices and to hear the instruments pop out like that. It's actually made me think that that song, Here We Go Again, was actually an unreleased song and it was when we met Wayne that first time, some tapes came out of the closet of old recordings that he had done. And a couple of the tapes are what I've been working with recently and sharing the Wayne 76, which was his follow-up to The Sounds of Joy. But Here We Go Again was one of these unreleased

songs that we added to Jamaica to Toronto. It's just so catchy and those phased drums and the singing. This is an original composition by Wayne, right? And he didn't have a musical, his musical education was on the streets of Montego Bay and playing in bands like Billy Vernon, The Celestials. And he came up with, we have to shout out Bob Williams and Jimmy Wisdom, in peace. You know, the musicians that he came up with in Montego Bay that were active and playing at the talent shows and in the dance bands and they did recordings in Jamaica as well and Wayne worked with the late Jojo Bennett later, yes in Toronto of the satellites with Fergus Hamilton, shout out to Fergus. And you know, it's on, it goes on and on and it's important. I feel it's very important history because when I was finding these records in my

travels, I was finding them to DJ and to share with others. And back in the day, we'd share to the 50, 100 people in the nightclub with the Georgia Strait. I got to write about some of the old music and then got to share it with the the reach of the, um, the newspaper, which was, I think at its height, a couple of hundred thousand circulation, the Georgia Strait and Vancouver. And then with these reissues, we're really putting it out to the world. And with the emergence of online, but when I found these records, these 45s and albums and 12 inch singles, I'd looked, I'd look to the history books,

the history of Canadian music and encyclopedia and I'd look up Wayne McGee and he was nowhere to be found. I looked up, you know, Doug Randall and all these other artists that I've been blessed to work with in my time. And I wasn't able to find out any information, but for me as like a music fan and musician

and artist, like I want to learn about these people and what made them tick and why they recorded it and what was behind these songs. So, you know, with my background in journalism, it was sort of like just a natural evolution to start talking to them and getting some of these stories down with their blessing. Well, you know, you mentioned just several, dozens maybe of compilations you've been involved with. So we don't have time, obviously. The deepest dive is gonna be on Jamaica to Toronto because I simply, if I had unlimited time,

I would cover it all in the same depth because that's how I'm wired. But there are a couple I wanna focus on and then I did promise I'd play some Rodriguez and ask you about that as well. but you mentioned earlier that you played basketball and I'm just curious did you ever play baseball? Not your sport, I can tell by the hesitation. Do you follow baseball? Are you a fan of baseball at all? Okay but you are a fan of history so here's here's what I have for you there There's a book underneath your vinyl there

and it is an amazing book. It's all about the history of Toronto Maple Leaf's baseball team. And they play at Christie Pitts. And this is a tradition that goes back to 69. And I'm excited. I'm gonna be doing some cool stuff with this team. More will be revealed very, very soon

when Rod Black visits the basement. Speaking of Leo Rodin, Rod Black and Leo Rodin are good buddies. So Rod Black in the basement next week, and we're going to talk with more specifics about what I'm going to be doing with Toronto Maple Leaf's baseball team. But that book is amazing, Kevin. So take that home with you and learn about the history. Thank you. It's actually like, I live just north of their lower midtown and I've often

seen people playing baseball there and softball and it's a beautiful place just to sit and people like to appreciate. Yeah, they appreciate. It's a beautiful like part of the culture of the area there. Well, we're going to make it like a meeting place for us like-minded Torontonians. So hopefully I'll see you there on May 12th. But again, more with Rod Black coming soon. And then it's funny because then the next week Rob Butler and Blue Jays fans will know Rob Butler because he played for the Blue Jays. But he's an East York legend and he manages the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. So I'm going to have him in the basement as well shortly thereafter. So more detail to come. May 12 is the opener

at Christie Pitts for the Trump Ably's baseball team. Also this is a measuring tape courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Thank you. Kevin you've got that. Shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. Quick piece of advice before I give you a few more gifts and then I'm gonna play a jam. It's funny earlier when I talked about Wayne McGee I talked about a baseball player I like named William McGee, and I'm going to play a couple of Willie's. OK, we're getting this is like a teaser.

There's a couple of Willie's I'm going to play and none of them are named Willie Nelson. So you probably know where I'm going, but this is going to tie into just a couple of other compilations. I want to ask you about Kevin. But first, my advice to you is that you subscribe to the

Advantage to Investor podcast from Raymond James Canada, not Kevin James, Canada Okay, this is rain. Listen, that's a different that's a different guy Raymond James, Canada This is hosted by Chris cook see best practices great advice whether you manage your own financial Investments or if you have somebody who does it for you Regardless, you should subscribe and listen to the Advantage Investor podcast. And one more, this is really keen, Kevin, because I can imagine that you have collected over the years, old electronics, maybe old tech, old cables that no longer function or are needed.

And they're probably, I'm guessing they might be a drawer or a room full of this stuff, this e-junk. And I'm asking you not to throw it in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill and it's bad news for everybody. Go to recyclemy electronics.ca, put in your postal code. They'll tell you where you can drop it off and have it properly recycled. And that is your homework. No, this is very important. I'm not familiar with that specific outfit, but no, I'm right on board with that. We have to treat Mother Earth with the respect she deserves. Can I play a willy?

That sounds dirty, but it's not, okay? So I'm gonna play a willy, and then I'm gonna play a different willy, and we're gonna talk about these willies. Ready? Yeah. and we're going to talk about these willies. Ready? Yep. The wolves don't live by the rules The wolves don't live by the rules Values to hells you can hear them cry They have to fight to stay alive

No one can change it, Mother Nature knows the reason why Oh wolves don't live by the rules Wolves don't live by the rules They're born to kill and to be free. There are lives apart which is meant to be. They cry out to wild, it's the only way they can see. Oh, wolves don't live by the rules. your wool don't live by the rules. All right, Willie Thrasher, that's from Native North America, Volume One, Aboriginal Folk, Rock and Country, 1966 to 1985.

I've been listening to songs from this compilation and I never And I don't know these artists. These songs are amazing. That song's freaking amazing. Shout out to the Wolves in that song. This is another great compilation you assembled. Yeah. Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame? Question mark.

Wolves Don't Live By The Rules by Willie Thrasher. I think it's time for that song to be honored. This is really like, it's such an unsung song and I know this compilation has received a lot of media and radio support over the years. We're coming up to the 10th anniversary in November of Native North America. And yes, another extension of my, what sort of became travels across the land and my also awareness of Native North America itself as an entity and my relationship with Canada as well and what that means.

And, you know, we're talking about indigenous music makers. Native North America features 24 different artists and groups from across Turtle Island, the northern half of Turtle Island, um, represents so many unique and distinct cultures. Willie Thrashers of Inuvialuit heritage. And he's from the Northern regions from Aklavik which is

just a little bit north of Inuvik where we were able to actually travel and do some touring up there with Willie and his singing partner Linda Saddleback. And I do just a of Toronto, outside of Sudbury, seeing off our late friend Eric Landry, who was one of the important artists featured on the compilation. And with Jamaica to Toronto and Native North America, and I view these projects really as sort of like spiritual peers and that the nature of these projects working with veteran musicians is that we've been losing them, unfortunately. We just lost our dear friend Eric and I was speaking with Willie Thrasher just yesterday about that loss as well.

So shout out to Eric Landry's family and community. But Willie Thrasher is an incredible singer-songwriter and he's still active, he's still rocking, he's still rolling. And I'd say he's writing the best songs of his life today in his 70s. Wow. But again, Willie Thrasher is a name I now know thanks to this compilation that you put together 10 years ago. Yeah, and through, yes, and big shout out to Light in the Attic as well and to the CBC and to APTN and to all the incredible support that we've received for this.

And it did put a lot of these artists on the Canadian map. Let's say they're known in Indigenous communities across the land, some of them. It has also raised awareness to Indigenous people about some of their artists as well, which is truly incredible. So I never wanted this album, The Native North America, to just be an album in the shops. And we had done some touring with Jamaica to Toronto as well. There was a legendary Toronto concert at Harbourfront Center in 2007 that launched at Jamaica to Toronto. With many of the performers that were featured on the album were hitting the stage and many for

the first time in 20 years and we'd sort of, I took on that with Native North America as well, also with my background in DJing and events and promotion and production, what have you, but we had Native North America gatherings. I think there's been over 15 of them now across into the Arctic and from coast to coast. But Willie Thrasher has been a big part of that, saying we were able to get Willie back up to the north, to his northern communities.

And he performed there at the Igloo Church, which was just phenomenal. This is a stone's throw from the residential school that he was sent to. So in my search that was sort of started through Ty Scammell, this old hippie from Vancouver that was getting involved in record dealing in the 80s, he sort of put me on my journey and looking for regional Canadian music and through that that took me to the indigenous music makers who informed me about about the land that I was born on and it goes beyond Canada and you know this is really has really shifted my consciousness and perspective and it's been such

an honor to spend time with artists like Eric Landry and and Willie Thrasher and to connect with people like the late, there's another Willie too. There's two couple, but I won't say. Well, you don't say this name because in fact, let me play some, let me play this. Okay. So let me play a Willie. It's fun to say that.

Let me play a Willie because this will not only speak to the native North American collection there, but also another project you worked on. And I also, the subject matter of this song strikes me because of my affection for the tragically hip and Gord Downey's project. And I've talked to, you know, there's an episode with Kevin Hearn. There's an episode of Toronto Mic with Kevin Hearn where we talk in great details about a project that was important to Gord in his final months of his life. But let's play Willie Dunn. One little child, walking through the snow Moving down the railway line, trying to make it home

And he's made it forty miles, six hundred left to go It's a long old lonesome journey, shuffling through the snow Shuffling through the snow Lonely as a single star in the skies above His father in a mining camp, his mother in the ground And he's looking for his dad, and he's looking out for love Just a lost little boy by the railroad track Moving homeward bound He's getting mighty hungry It's been a time since last he's ate And as the night grows colder He wonders of his fate

Or his legs are wracked with pain He staggers through the night As he sees through his troubled eyes His hands are turning white so so Is that the great Windegro come to look upon my face? And are the stars exploding down the misty isle of space? Who's that coming down the trap, walking up to me? Her arms outstretched and waiting, waiting just for me Little Charlie Wenge, shuffling through the snow Moving down the railway line, trying to make it home

And he's made it forty miles, a hundred left to go It's a long, long, long journey, Channy Wenjack, who many listening to this program now learned a great deal about from The Secret Path, Gordowney's album and project at the end of his life. And when's that's Willie Dunn. Tell me about Willie Dunn. Well, as you say now that now there's not a dry eye in the house. Right. You know, the story of Channy Wenjack is brought to into the musical spectrum by the late great Willie Dunn, an artist of Mi'kmaq heritage born and raised in Montreal and became active in music in the mid-1960s and the folk music tradition. And yeah, that was a version that was released on his first

album entitled Willie Dunn from, I believe that's from 1971, released actually interesting enough in showing the connectivity amongst people and music and released on the Sumas label, also the label that reissued, that issued Jackie Metteaux's first Canadian album, Wishbone in the same year. So, you know, these are the great connections and you would think that what does Willie Dunn

have to do with Jackie MeToo? What, a native dude from Montreal and a fellow from Jamaica, like, but you know, they're intrinsically linked through that time and moment when people in Canada were sharing records out there and also they didn't sell well at the time. Maybe Jackie's album did okay, but Willie's album didn't hit the charts. But he was also a filmmaker, an incredible national film board director and in 1968 he had, through the NFB, released

The Ballad of Crowfoot, which I had seen in high school at Brother Andre and years later when I'm finding these records I came across Willie Dunn's second album as a beautiful artwork a painting by the late Cajones, a Mohawk artist, and who painted that incredible image and you know, you start connecting the dots, but Willie was well known and loved. It's really interesting because of in the Secret Path project by the late great Gord Downie, Gord Downie, Willie's name wasn't really out there in the mix and it's a shame in a way because these are two great Canadian, both two great Canadian artists and you know and that Willie had set that story of Channit to music back then. It's almost like, like why isn't anyone talking about Willie in the mass, colonial mass media? And then you realize once again that it's like, unfortunately, we don't know and celebrate

our history here, our shared history. Obviously, this is an indigenous history and I'm of settler immigrant heritage myself, but it's like this is some of the motivation for the work and the importance of it and the need to get these stories down and the need for institutions like the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame to honor our almost unparalleled artists like Willie the late Willie Dunn and people like Willie Thrasher and on and on and it's really interesting but I actually was really blessed to to meet Gord near the, I don't know how far away it was from the end of his life, but he was touring with the Sadies who through a shared love of music, I became pals with Dallas Good and Sean and of the Sadies. And they were performing,

they did a great album together. Gordowney and the Sadies, I think also including the Conquering Sun, maybe it was a long title, but they toured that. Years later actually, there was a thing for a Strombo 40 and I produced with my friend Malcolm Jack, Malcolm Biddle out west we with Willie Thrasher recorded a version of Budget Shoes from that album which is incredible Gordon the Sadies and I went to the concert in Vancouver at a small place, I think it's called the Media Club and hanging out backstage after and Dallas, the late Dallas Good, Dr. Dallas Good, rest in peace again all these people we've been losing. Dallas introduced

me to Gord as this, I was producing Native North America at the time, it wasn't out yet, I was neck deep, it was a five-year production for me. And he introduced me as this kid that was making Indigenous music compilation and I got to, you know, connect with Gord for a brief moment there and he was really gracious and curious about the work that I was doing and then, you know, unfortunately, you know, he had his health troubles and passed on. But before that, it was, you know, what a gesture that Gord Downie gave to Canadians really is to help catch, to Canadians really is to help catch, to get us up to speed with what indigenous people are well, unfortunately well aware of the colonial history, the residential schools, and that's why people don't know Willie Dunn

necessarily, but they know Gord Downie because of some of these systemic issues that extend into the business of music as well. So, I remember being interviewed with Lawrence Dunn, Willie's son on CUE on CBC with Tom Power and I think Tom brought it up and I said that, I don't know, I made a little joke that Willie and Gord were having a good chat up there in the spirit world about all this stuff. Both people, both artists had an incredible sense of humour as well. They could never be forgotten as well, the late Willie Dunne, you know, he could have

had a career as a stand-up comedian if he had chose to pursue that route, but instead he was letting people know, honouring his heritage and Indigenous people's heritage through his songs and films and art. An incredible person. You know, Gord Downey too, with that secret path, it really brought a lot of, it brought Chani's story to life again, which is important. But equally, I think it's important at the same time we have to be continued to never forget, never, like to teach people about Willie Dunn for those who didn't know him because Willie Dunn was very well known saying like I was watching the Ballad of Croft in high school in the early 90s. Right. He was known in the folk communities but you know he I think there's always

a musical education to be done out there especially in the era in the analog era of this pre everything being documented like we have today, and with our social media and our cell phones and devices in those days, the real mavericks, the real trailblazers do stand to be forgotten if their music and film and stories aren't held aloft. And I think that's something that needs to happen. And I try to play my small part in that. Well, people want to know, you know? Yeah, and thank you because it's wild to think that song,

Charlie, we just listened to is from 1971. Meanwhile, I'm learning about Jenny Wenjack from Gord and you know, only about, you know, whatever it was six years ago or so, whatever. It's wild that 1971, that beautiful song existed telling you about Charlie. I will just shout out your project, Creation Never Sleeps, Creation Never Dies, the Willie Dunn Anthology that's separate from the Native North American series.

Yeah. We released a few spin-off albums from the Native North America series, which is sort of, once again, is something I pitched to Light in the Attic. And the Willie Dunn Anthology was my last project, offering it to Light in the Attic, and so we're working through voluntary in nature now. But it was beautiful to help share Willie's music. There was a run of 2000 vinyl records that sold out within a month. And I've been disappointed that the album,

it was amazing because it was like this album in its presence in 2021 actually created at record stores like COPS and Sonic Boom, Willie Dunn header cards. For the first time in the history of music, if people know about record stores you walk in and you You know It has an alphabetical artists or sections according to genre or what have you and they have a little what you call a header card

For an artist the Beatles Neil Young, Joni Mitchell Leonard Cohen You know many great Canadian artists who we know but for the first time ever great Canadian artists who we know, but for the first time ever there were Willie Dunn header cards created and after a month the album was no longer in the shops or in print anymore. As Jamaica to Toronto also ran its course for Light in the Attic and I've always been very disappointed just to, you know, with all due respect that these albums have not continued to be in print available because of the importance.

And in a way, maybe that is the disconnect between the working with the U S based label who don't always necessarily understand they have their distribution chains and their stores that they work with. But I, you know, that's what we're trying to do now with voluntary nature, just to make sure that these records are known and out there and continue to be in some format. Yes, all this music is available digitally, but it's with Spotify, you're not getting the 24 page Willie Dunn notes that walks you through Willie's life

or the Jamaica to Toronto booklet. You're not necessarily always getting the edification. And that's why I like thank you Mike today because we're able to booklet, you're not necessarily always getting the edification. And that's why I like, thank you Mike today because we're able to share, you know, it comes through different forms today, but it's nice when it's like directly tied to the music experience itself, because it's a, there's so much more to it than the songs, but there's nothing without

the songs and the songs are what is really important. So in that regard, it's beautiful that Willie's music, Willie Dunn's music and Willie Thrasher's music and the music of the C are what is really important. So in that regard it's beautiful that Willie's music, Willie Dunn's music and Willie Thrasher's music and the music of the Cougars is and Wayne McGee is out there for people to learn from and experience and while the artists are still alive, people like Jay Douglas, it's amazing for him to be able to speak on his incredible history and the incredible accomplishments that he, you know, he's, he's still doing today. Absolutely. Um, can I give you a couple more gifts?

I realized it. I didn't give you all your gifts here before I play a little Nardwar. Yeah. Okay. What does he give? Records and a knickknacks pins. Oh, I see. Okay.

Any number of things. I've got to get you up to speed. Yeah, it's a big bit of a blind spot. Like I feel I was too old. I know he was a somebody asked me how do I not know Nard war and I think it's because when he shows up on much he shows up on much music, right? But I think I had I had aged out of much music when he shows up like I think it was maybe the 2000s or am I nuts there I was trying to do the time crunching as to how I'm because I was a huge much music guy from the moment it hit my cable until I don't know Oasis right like like through mid 90s or whatever maybe and leaving into the late 90s but somehow I missed Nardoir and it's a complete blind spot to me but I don't have the gifts maybe a Nardoir has for you, but I do have fresh craft beer

from Great Lakes Brewery. Again, they're hosting us at TMLX 15. You can take that home with you. And in my freezer upstairs, I have a large lasagna for you courtesy of Palma Pasta and they're going to feed us at TMLX 15. So you're taking a lot of swag home with you. No, this is thank you, Mike. And thank you Great Lakes and thanks Palmas and thanks Ridley Funeral Home as well, because this is,

you know, a measuring tape is always something that's handy. Can you measure the superego with a measuring tape? I'd like that, Jay. That was good. All right. I wanted to, I promise I'd play a little of this and I'm going to ask you about your role here. A little Rodriguez. Won't you hurry?

Because I'm tired of the scene for a blue corn. Won't you bring back all those colors to my dreams? Silver magic ships you carry, jumper's coke, sweet Mary Jane's Now of course, Kevin, the Academy Awards just took place and I remember when Searching for Sugarman won the Academy Award for Best Documentary and I love that documentary and that's when I like many of us less cool people learned about Rodriguez and his story but please tell the listenership tell the FOTM's tuned in I feel like you had a big role in the fact that that documentary even exists no no am I overselling it no no no 100% unfortunately but you know we all play our parts and and also too I should say

like with all this stuff and what we've been touching on, there's no judgment to coming to music when you do. As long as you approach things with an open heart and ears or senses really, senses that we're blessed to have, that's all that matters. There's no judgment. It's like, oh, you know, I just discovered

Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon last year for you know like it's Willie Dunn, Sugarman, all these people I come late to. We come to these things when we do and there's never any judgment for that. It's just beautiful that this art is is out there for us to enjoy but no with with Rodriguez specifically Light in the Attic. Like, Rodriguez was there like a Wayne McGee back in the day, but maybe, you know, the hip-hop producers and the crate-digging DJs. We were grooving on Rodriguez's music back in the 90s. These two records that he made that had sort of fallen to the wayside didn't hit their commercial mark back in the day.

And this is the music that we were playing in the clubs, like Sugar Man. It was like, you know, it's a pretty big jam. It had been sampled in hip hop years later. And Light in the Attic wanted to reissue these two lost albums. And this again, just so we're clear though, this is before the documentary was in production. Yeah, this is before the documentary was in production. And Light in the attic and they had they had an a writer from England to write the liner notes and He had reached out to Rodriguez notoriously shy and cryptic person living in Detroit where he was thought to be missing and You know people know Rodriguez's story pretty well, so I won't go into that in great detail but he was thought to be missing any which way.

He was found under this great story and this British journalist, music journalist was tagged to write the liner notes to his albums. He got Rodriguez on the phone and sort of had a freak out. He's like, I can't do this. He would ask Rodriguez, like, tell me about your early influences in music.

And he'd start talking about the leaves on a tree. Like he was talking in a riddle and rhyme and this journalist, this, this journalist freaked out and he bailed. I can't do it. Sorry, Matt Sullivan, the owner of the light and the attic. I can't do it. Yeah. And by that point, I had already done a lot of work.

We had, we done six albums in the Jamaica Toronto series and for a bunch of 45s and, and maybe other stuff at that point I had already done a lot of work. We'd done six albums in the Jamaica Toronto series and a bunch of 45s and maybe other stuff at that point as well. But Matt hit me up and said, Kevin, like you're in Toronto, like Detroit's not too far. Would you like to write the liner notes to Rodriguez's albums? I'd be honored to. I love Rodriguez's music. We've been playing it and collecting it for years. So I was signed up to be the Lyronauts writer for both of the albums of Cold Fact and this follow-up coming from Reality that he recorded in England. So I went down to Detroit and

spent a couple of days with Rodriguez. Once again, rest in peace. and and his daughter Reagan Reagan as well who was incredible person and got to know Rodriguez a little bit and he was also very cryptic with me and I remember at the time being like oh you know light in the attic want they want the story they want to hear the stories about like yeah Rodriguez hanging out with the MC5 and like, this is the romantic ideas that Lightning Attic were hoping to get these stories. And if they did exist, he wasn't going to tell me them. And it was incredible. We sat around Reagan's, I went to his house and I parked my old Toyota Corolla that I had for 25 years. We parked that at the house

that you see on the album cover. And it was. The whole house was like you had a huge 10 foot fence around it. Detroit's an interesting place. That was my first visit to Detroit and went to People's Records though, showed up to People's Records and walked around with Rodriguez and went to the library where Reagan was working. But we know I sat with Rodriguez at Reagan's house and around a little circular kitchen table once again. Those kitchen tables really, you know, that's a big part, you know, Wayne McGee sitting around the kitchen table. Also being in person.

So as a guy, your episode 1449, okay. Tomorrow Peter Gross will be 1450. Congrats. I can tell you, man, there's a big difference when somebody's in the room with you and you're reading their vibe and you can look them in the eye and you can read their body language and everything, then somebody on a phone call for sure. I mean, it's beautiful. We miss that so much in today's society with this dominance of social media.

So it was, it was a privilege to sit with Rodriguez and he was in those days. Well, he was a privilege to sit with Rodriguez and he was in those days, well, he was a marijuana smoker and I have occasionally dabbled. A jazz cigarette or two? Jazz cigarette, some sugary tea. He rolled these incredible joints that were literally shaped like, I've never seen a silver bullet. They look like these little short bullets and And we sat around and just like passing, passing

the smokes and I had the tape recorder on the table and recording the dialogue and he, you know, got these liner notes and I was like, oh man, that was a tough interview. But you know, I was able to end up talking to other people from around the, from the scene at the time. And you know, Mike Theodore, the producer from

Cold Fact and, and Harry Ball, and from the scene at the time, and Mike Theodore, the producer from Cold Fact, and Harry Balk, different people that were involved with Rodriguez's career filled in some blanks and was able to speak also with Matt with the late Clarence Avant, who is one of the legends of the music and just incredible looking to Clarence Avant out there. There's a documentary about him a few years back. A real force. But no, Rodriguez was awesome. He was the real deal. But at the time, that's when they were starting to shoot the documentary. And Rodriguez was a little bit like leery of it. I was sitting very private. He wasn't willing to like, wasn't trying to sell himself. He's not a self promoter. He

was a humble working class family man and he wrote incredible music and songs and he had an astute observational quality in his lyrics and he had his finger on the pulse of cities like Detroit but also the global experience, you know, things that we all, that connect us all as human beings and Rodriguez was just so astute. So he was a bit, he expressed a bit of leeriness about the film in that he wasn't sure obviously how it would play out and what the deal was. But lo and behold, the film was completed, it came out, I don't know how long after the reissues but the reissues came out and that helped to build awareness about Rodriguez and his story and obviously most importantly his music. So by the time the film came out there was already some real good buzz happening and the film just knocked out right out of the

park with the incredible backstory. Unfortunately, the director passed away not too long after winning the Academy Award and he killed himself unfortunately. Malik, Benjolou. I was really sad, really sad. And then he was saying, we just lost Rodriguez last year. So yeah, it was just such an honour for me. I guess there was also like, I was able to help facilitate some of Rodriguez's backing bands for some of the live shows as well. Jay Anderson, ex Soundscapes employee, legendary drummer. I remember linking him with Rodriguez for their show at Harborfront Center and Jay's always very appreciative of that exchange and the opportunity to play with such a legend like Rodriguez, but Jay's a legend too, right? But

anyways, yeah, a lot of great connection in those days, a lot of music, a lot of motion, a lot of traveling, a lot of connection. That continues to today, thankfully. a lot of music, a lot of motion, a lot of traveling, a lot of connection. That continues to today, thankfully. Just going to close, bringing back a little. That's more Wayne McGee there. More Wayne McGee. Just a little African wake here.

What did you win the Grammys for? The Grammys? Yeah, I'm not sorry, when you were nominated, you know, it's an honor just being nominated, Kevin. Okay. So what were you nominated for? No, very, no, no, 100%. And I'd like to say, I like, this is the first, like, this was recognition of my, my often unpaid and, and blood, sweat and tears for, for decades. That recognition of my work meant the world to me and also because it was recognition for artists who had never sort of

reached into those roads as well like for Willie Dunn to be recognized by the Grammys through the the historical recording nomination for Native North America and subsequently for the album notes for the Willie Dunn anthology, the Willie Dunn notes newspaper that we made. It's like this is really incredible. So for me it was awesome because at home here in Canada, like the Junos don't have an award that recognizes historical albums. I don't know it's sort of like it's that old story of like, you know,

like people leave Canada, you know, I'm not leaving Canada, but at the same time it's like I understand why people do, because that's where you're getting the respect and recognition for your work. It's like the Canadian music industry, like they're definitely aware of my work, but they're not including me, they're not creating opportunities for me to continue my work, and I don't personally go for the grant stuff myself, but maybe in the future I'm going to be forced to. If I want to survive and continue to put food on the table.

You got to go for the grant stuff. I got this lasagna coming up though too. That's going to be delicious. Thank you. Talk to Danko Jones about the grant stuff. Okay. You got to take advantage of these grants. That's what they're there for. Yeah. No, I'd love to talk to Danko Jones and like people know, and for me, especially as I am an artist, but in terms of the sharing in my younger years, um, like my work was sort of outside of the box.

It wasn't really, it didn't fit into their, into their categories at the time. And talking about going back 20 years or so leading edge things, things of sort of, and then now with the importance, obviously importance of, of stories being told and coming from the communities directly themselves, I was just at a unique place in time when I was the person that was kind of reaching out in a very organic and meaningful way. Wasn't like native music is hot. I'm going to make a native music comp. This was a completely organic and same with the Jamaica to Toronto and the other

projects I've worked on. It was based on like my genuine love and passion for music. My organic journey as a human being on planet earth and traveling and connecting with people. Um, but I think within the industry, it's a lot more opportunism now is maybe like this like you see people sort of like cashing in on some of this stuff but it it's the person that sold the grant thing to me best in terms of work on an archival music project was that if if I can if I can use my position to to access funds that can help artists who might not be able to access those grants themselves, like Willie Thrasher doesn't do email.

You know what I mean? We're so tied to these devices and the electronic world today that it's like if you're not an active participant, which a lot of these veteran musicians aren't, you're totally disenfranchised. It's like you don't exist. So- It's like you're friends who aren't on social media. You're like, is that guy's like, what's going on with that guy? I have no idea. Big black hole, right? Yeah, it's like it doesn't exist. And this is the challenge that we're in today. And I think it's

up to people, especially the people in positions of power in the media and in the entertainment music and entertainment industry. If they don't know these are some cells, well, tap into people like myself who are well aware of them. And let's, we got to get everyone up to speed here. And that's why I think a lot of these projects have done, like with the Gore Downies as well, I say it's got, it got Canada and it didn't get indigenous people up to speed. They're already on the good road. They already know what's happening, but it got Canadians in Canada up to speed about

the horrors of the residential school system. You know? Kevin, this was amazing, man. What is your website for voluntary in nature where people can read more and discover more? Yeah, there's a basic webpage at voluntary in nature.com. I think where I share the most is on my Instagram page. That's voluntary in nature. Basically voluntary in Nature. Basically, Voluntary in Nature.

If you Google that, I've been running a blog at that for like 15 years. I have a Facebook. You can find me under, I'm so easy to find, Kevin James House, Voluntary in Nature. Yeah. Man of many names, many talents, and you're doing good work here. And again, we only covered really a few of these projects and there are so many. Is there anything that you wanna share here before I wrap up here with some lowest of the low, great Toronto jam right here,

but is there anything that you were thinking about on your way here and you're like, I hope I get a chance to say this, that or the other. This is the moment, Kevin, this is the moment. I'm just really honored to be here saying, looking at the list of people that you've interviewed, Mike, over the years, I want to thank you for your efforts in helping to share stories and bring stories to light, giving people the opportunity to share, which we've done in abundance here today. And yeah, I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank you

for what you do. You, me, Alan's, Zweig, we're all cut from the same cloth. Thanks, Alan. No, I really appreciate that. And the music makers, the entertainment people, they just, oh gosh, this is really interesting being a part of this community that you've built here. You're an FOTM, Kevin. Yeah, FOTM, Friends of Toronto Mike.

You got it, buddy. Yeah, no, and yeah, we'll look forward to celebrating on the 50th, but no, just check out Willie Dunn, check out Willie Thrasher, check out Wayne McGee, listen to the music. If you can find me online or on the streets, let's talk about these artists and let's celebrate them. And if you like what you hear, please share it with your friends and family and your your communities and that's how we grow as people together, all human beings on planet Earth, beyond countries, beyond nationalism and the world needs a lot of peace and love right now and music and healing and music can help with that process. And the spirit is voluntary in nature.

And that brings us to the end of our 1,449th show. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, RecycleMyElectronics.ca, Raymond James Canada, the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team, and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when Peter Gross is dropping by. tomorrow when Peter Gross is dropping by, very interesting Kevin, Peter Gross has been... He's in a pickle. Peter Gross is in a pickle. That's how I'm going to tease this one. And

he's going to come over here the day that the pickle is born, if you will, and he's going to explain it all. We have audio evidence. There's insurance companies involved. It's quite the rigmarole FOTM Hall of Famer Peter Gross episode 1450 See you all then Well, I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chacla Cours But I like it much better going down on you, yeah, you know that's true

Because everything is coming up rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold but the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away Cause everything is rosy now Everything is rosy, yeah Everything is rosy and gray Music