Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Lance Hornby: Toronto Mike'd #502

Episode Date: August 28, 2019

Mike chats with Toronto Sun sports writer Lance Hornby.

Welcome to episode 502 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, and Capadia LLP CPAs. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and my guest this week is Toronto Sun sports writer Lance Hornby. Welcome, Lance. How are you doing? Thanks for having me. My first Lance.

You didn't have Lance Brown? Oh, yeah. He's a politician now. He's an elected official somewhere. Oh, is he? Yeah, like up north or something. Oh, yeah? Does he only work between 1140 and 1145 like he used to in the old days? That's right. No, I'm kidding. Joe Tilley's been on. That's as close as I got to Lance.

Okay. Interchangeable? No. Right. But, yeah, I'm thinking famous L close as I got to Lance. Okay. You know, interchangeable? No. Right. But yeah, I'm thinking famous Lance's, like great actor Lance Henriksen. Yeah, there's one.

He's good. Yeah, yeah. And of course, I used to be Lance, Lance Armstrong used to be big, but I took down all those posters. I used to have funny headlines about him on my,

on my wall at work, but I took those down for, for obvious reasons. I think about him every time I hear a Sheryl Crow song. Lance Armstrong. And well Lance Bass is a bass or bass? I should know this right? Bass from NSYNC. He's a popular Lance. Was it Homer Simpson has a great line about Lance and Bruce. These were our greatest names. Do you remember this one I think so my name sort of

went out of fashion in the 50s you don't see many more the odd NHLer I think Lance Petlick was one you see them

come up now actually the new sports writer for the Buffalo News his first name is Lance so there's two of us now

we're going to bring it back I think of like old Hollywood like you're right like an old like maybe a handsome actor would be named lance like absolutely you would think so you you let

me take a look at you i just met you but yeah you fit the bill that's a nice shirt oh thank you yeah i'm squeezing out the last days of summer yeah so i should apologize in advance if I sound slower than normal. So I just flew back from British Columbia last night. So to me, this is 5.30 in the morning. Well, you know what? I sometimes wish the Maple Leafs were still playing in the West because I certainly enjoyed my time out in BC, whether it was work or play. Yeah, and on that note, the Jays were at West while I was at West.

So it was kind of neat that they were still on at the normal time. Oh, yeah. And they went to Seattle while I was in Vancouver. Right, right. Did you see that tweet from Ken Jennings, the Jeopardy guy? Of course, yeah. He was very critical of, you know, he says the best thing in the world is 20,000 Jays fans coming down from Vancouver and Seattle winning.

Awful Canadians, I think he called them. Surprisingly awful. Somebody tweeted right back and said, okay, Ken, your 15 minutes of fame are up. That's enough. Yeah, Ken. I saw the tweet and I saw the outrage and I just assumed

Ken was just trolling there. That was just, you know what I mean? 20,000, surprisingly awful. And then I thought, well know what I mean? Like 20,000 surprisingly awful. And then I thought, well, we should have a better sense of humor about this. Like the fact we were all kind of up in arms to me was like maybe we weren't getting it. About Ken Jennings of all people.

Yeah, of all people. You've never tried out for Jeopardy, have you? No, I consider myself a decent trivia guy. I have lots of spare time on planes and that to get into it. And I read encyclopedias very much as a kid. My brother had a set. So anyway, that's sort of a lifelong thing. Was this a complete set?

Oh, yeah, the old kind, you know, that they came door to door to sell. Encyclopedia Britannica. Okay, so it wasn't from the grocery store because we'd start like collections and they'd end at like, I don't know, F or something. You'd get bored, yeah. A lot of incomplete collections,

but I was really smart for, like, A through F. Yeah, yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah, you don't want anything about the Ts or the Ss or anything with geography or history with those letters. I have a jam for you. Here we go. Oh, wow. Just to wake us up. I just need jam for you. Here we go. Oh, wow. Just to wake us up. I just need to wake up a bit.

Some guy named Mike Zeisberger told me to play some Ramones for you. Oh, very good. Yes, that's, you know, I was going to say there was, if you'd picked that randomly, I would have been surprised because they are one of my favorite bands.

As a matter of fact, I just tweeted something on the weekend about the 100th anniversary of the Danforth Music Hall in my end of the town, and that's where I saw Ramones for the first time

in February 1980. I have, okay, so first of all, I do enjoy Ramones when I hear it. I'm going to play a few during the opening segment here, but I got some... They're quick songs, folks. Don't worry. Yeah, that's trueones when I hear it. I'm going to play a few during the opening segment here.

But I got some... They're quick songs, folks. Don't worry. Yeah, that's true. That's very true. I got a few, like, 101 questions about Ramones, right? Was it always the same lineup, like four guys? It changed a bit. I mean, they had their original drummer was Tommy.

Of course, they weren't real brothers. I hate to ruin everybody's Santa Claus thing there. But yeah, it was the same lineup for a few years. And then Marky Ramone, the drummer they had when they went into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think he was with Talking Heads or was in that scene. But Tommy, their original drummer, quit to be their producer. And sadly, most of them have passed on. Unlike other bands, their, most of them have passed on. Unlike other bands, their drummers lived and they passed on. Oh, that's funny.

So who's the last remaining Ramone, right? We're down to one. That would be Marky, yeah. Marky and a couple of guys who filled in after Didi Ramone passed away. A couple of the bass players are still around, I think. But Marky is the most well-known living Ramone. That's something, eh? Like that they're all gone because they would have all passed away quite young, right?

Yeah, yeah. No, I think Johnny, the guitarist, had cancer. Joey. The funny thing is I was on a leaf trip to L.A. last year. I went to the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. And Johnny Ramon and Didi Ramon are both there. Not only are they there, they're about a slap shot apart. But right next to Hattie McDaniel from Gone with the Wind.

It's a very strange juxtaposition. I'm trying to think back. This is just before I left for BC, so it's all blur. But coincidentally, the day before, I was in Park Lawn Cemetery. And just for something to do, I took a photo of, I went to Harold, I took a photo of Harold Ballard's grave. I took a photo of Con Smythe, I believe.

And I took a photo of Jeff Healy. All right. Yeah. And my buddy who's not famous. But somebody, I think Beezers, Buffery tweeted that somebody from the sun was there and he was sent to

Park Lawn Cemetery to kind of cover this up. Somebody from the Toronto Sun, I'm putting you on the spot here, I should call Buffery and remind myself what he was talking about, but a long-time sports editor of the Toronto Sun is buried there. Probably George Gross is there.

Who hired so many of us including myself, for which I'm obviously very, grateful so yeah he was there i i know i was there for mr mr ballard's funeral like king clancy i don't think is there but uh he's not there no i hunted for him okay he's in another west end uh cemetery but i'm just going back to some uh yeah some some very uh emotional times even on the leafs at the time they passed away weren't doing very well i remember the lineups at the gardens were uh around the block to see them uh both um mr clancy mr ballard were in state there for uh for a day and there were uh you know about all the characters from all the

years of the gardens uh showed up to pay their respects quite the time like looking back at the ballard era i was quite young but that's so that's all i knew like i was kind of like dropped into this ballard era and thinking that was like normalcy if you will you know what i mean it's like yeah looking back though and i mean stellick's been on to tell a million and one great story jeff merrick came on to talk about how he buried ballard at Park Lawn Cemetery. He was like digging the grave. Oh, really? Side job, yeah? Yeah, when he was a young man.

So, yeah, next time you see him, ask for that story. He likes to tell it. That is, yeah, I did not know that. Yeah. I'm surprised. I mean, obviously you've never met Merrick then because I think that's his first thing he says. No, I know, Jeff, but oddly enough,

that's never come up in conversation. But I would love to hear that. That's a, you know, as I say, actually, I was in the cemetery, and I'm trying to remember, I think it's Bayview Cemetery, I think, where Mr. Clancy is. I happen to be there actually looking for an old, old relative. And somebody was helping me around. And they said, oh, you're from the Sun. You must know that Mr. Clancy's here. And then it clicked.

I remembered from covering his barrel. I remember going to games in the Grays, and then the, what did they call that? The box that they sat in? Bunker. The bunker, right. Harold Ballard and King Clancy sitting in the bunker. It was like part of the draw.

Like, oh, there they are. Oh, the Muppets, yeah are Statler and Waldorf people called them a little moment of Ramones here as we get warm dumped I'm only playing the hits here on Toronto Mike but what's your favorite Ramones song? You're going through a time of You can listen to my Let's drink, but I'm only playing the hits here on Toronto Mike. What's your favorite Ramones song? Well, that's actually one of my five.

I mean, you know, there's a probably I want to be sedated is only because it's A, a great song and B, it's sort of introduce them to the world. A lot of us predicted they'd be the Beach Boys of the 1980s when they debuted in the late 70s. Didn't quite turn out that way, but that's probably their best crossover hit. Yeah, they had that The Bird is the Word they covered. Yeah, Surf and Bird. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, the album's called, if you want to get one Ramones album that sums it all up,

Rocket to Russia is my favorite. That kind of tells the world what they're all about and some great hits I think everybody would like. What would you say to the naysayers who tell you all the Ramones songs sound the same? What would you say to them? I would say go down to Cleveland to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that I just visited a couple of weeks ago and see for yourself.

I think they got their just reward. And almost everybody, you know, I don't know much about music in the last 20 years or so. Some of it has passed me by. But when you hear the Red Hot Chili Peppers and people like that covering their songs and paying tribute to them as so many people do, then it shows I didn't waste my childhood. Well, I'm a big Pearl Jam fan, and Ed Vedder always gave mad props to the Ramones.

Yes. So he gave his proper props. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I saw him a few times in Toronto at their peak, and I feel very fortunate to do so. One more here. One more here. Let's see.

By the way, happy 60th birthday. Oh, wow. You know all my secrets. Only because it's all in the same Zeisberger message. Let me see. I'm going to read the Zeisberger message. Well, I'll have to have a word with young Mike next time I see him. Happy, yeah. Oh, actually, okay. So he said happy 60'm going to read this Iceberg message. Well, I'll have to have a word with young Mike next time I see him. Actually, okay. So he said,

happy 60th birthday to Lance Hornbeak. So, and he talks about the Ramones and yeah, he's a big, I guess he's a, I would say a big fan of yours, but he's a friend of yours. Yeah, Mike and I worked at Toronto Sun for a long time. He's doing a great job now at NHL.com.

And we, Mike and I, I guess, were more in the Pat Quinn era when we covered the Leafs together, which had its own set of adventures. So that was quite a memorable time as well. Bottom line, though, no Stanley Cups, even though it was interesting to go two or three playoff series. Unlike the current team, it seems to be stuck on one. Yeah, the two Pat eras, I call them. But the Pat Burns era, if you will, I remember.

Yeah, two, I call them Final Fours, two Conference Finals. And then Pat Quinn era, two Conference Finals. It's true. So there's like, at least in my lifetime that I remember anyways, we got the four times that we hit the Conference Finals. My favorite would be 93 because it was 21 games and 42 nights.

And it was all so new and so unexpected. I don't think, until they win the next cup, that's going to be, for this generation anyway, that's going to be their quote-unquote Stanley Cup. For sure. We'll be talking about that Gilmore wraparound in the second overtime against Cujo in what was, what, game one of the second overtime against Cujo in what was what game one

of the second round I guess that was yes that was that was game one and again that was only two days after uh the Borshevsky goal so that was uh that was that was quite a week for sure what's the longest Ramon song would it be like three minutes because well the longer they went I I can't put my finger on that but but the longer they played, the more, like when Phil Spector produced them for a while, just when he still had a semblance of sanity, he tried to change their sound and they were tired of playing so long and not getting commercial success. So they threw in their lot with Phil Spector,

and it was quite entertaining. Phil, obviously a very colorful character and had a lot of very violent scenes around the recording studio. It was actually a play for Four Chords and a Gun that just was playing at Harborfront. I took my wife to see it, a very romantic date. It was very well done. And your wife's name is Sheena, right?

Close, yes. She's probably wondering. I got up so early to get here today. Julie's probably wondering where I am. Luckily, we have evidence of your whereabouts here. We can show her. Last Ramones song and then we're going to get into it.

This is probably my second favorite song. into it. Yeah, this is probably my second favorite song. Thank you. See, I went for the hits. I just said, just the hits, Mike. Yeah, well, you know, you go to CBGB's in New York

where they used to play and I think it's gone now, but just kind of have to imagine the scene where they were, you know, and not just them, but Blondie, Talking Heads, all those bands playing

in this really crummy place with one bathroom. And if you would have said, this is setting off a musical revolution that's going to spread to England and around the world, people would have said you were nuts. But I'm glad I got there once before they tore down CBGB's. For sure, yeah, for sure.

Very cool, very cool. And you hear, I guess not today, maybe 20 years ago, but you had very cool and you hear like today i guess not today maybe 20 years ago but like you had bands like you know today listen i don't i'm doing it now too like things that happened in like the mid 90s i'll be like nowadays you know but like green day for example yes yes uh very yeah yeah there's an i read there is i i talked about how i'm uh not quite uh tuned into what uh what's going on today but Day, I know they're even on the older side now. I really enjoyed listening to them. There was a definite Ramones punk rock influence there.

Keep it simple, stupid, I think that's what we say. Yes, two chords. That's right. So Sheena is a punk rocker. By the way, next guest is Lorne Honickman, and you tweeted that you stole a City TV mug from the gain room at the station when Lorne had you on as a guest in the late 90s. Yeah, full disclosure. I was looking around.

My wife said, if you can get one, get it, even though I'd been on that a couple of times, and maybe it wasn't my first larceny from that station, but we still have it if that makes Lorne feel any better. And I'll return it if he wants it. Well, I'll let him know. He's in Friday, so you can't let me know. I heard him recently, I don't know, I was in a car driving around, and I heard him on AM640, so he's doing some, but he's a lawyer now.

He's doing. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was City's legal affairs reporter. I love City in the old days. Okay. Me too. So I just had a couple of long flights.

So I brought, Christopher Ward wrote a book about much music. Oh, okay. He's the first DJ. Right. VJ. VJ. Yes. Yeah. But him and Roberts, J. Oh, okay. He's the first DJ. Right. VJ. VJ, yes. Yeah, not DJ. But him and Roberts,

J.D. Roberts. Right, before J.D. went to New York with CNN. Yeah, there's a lot of city. I think Ali Velshi and some other people

got jobs down at CNN, that kind of thing. Well, John Saunders, for example, worked for ESPN. Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure. Oh, yeah, I remember

in the late 70s, our mass media class went down for a tour of Yeah, oh for sure, for sure. Oh yeah, I remember in the late 70s our mass media class went down for a tour of City and lots of people out there might remember Joe Giorginto who was one of the reporters there and I walk in and Joe's at his desk looking at his Wintario tickets and I thought, you know, like, you know, I was expecting to see a full professional working environment and there's all these people like him hanging around, you know, I was expecting to see a full professional working environment. And there's all these people like him hanging around, you know, just talking. And I thought, you know, I got to get in this business. It looks like they're having a lot of fun here. Well, speaking of, you mentioned a gross, but Peter Gross was there.

I mean, I dig that era too. So I do a lot of, like, I have a lot of those. I was just spent like a week of my 15-year-old daughter. And apparently I've started calling people cats. I have a lot of cats. I'm trying to work on getting Jojo Chinto in here. But that whole City TV era, it's kind of fascinating to me. It was.

I mean, those guys, much like the Toronto Sun, we were sort of brothers in arms as far as that goes. An organization that kind of flew by the seat of its pants, was famous for thinking outside of the box. But that was because of, because I just read this book, but all that stuff that we saw as cool and kind of guerrilla style was all because of no budget. Oh, yeah.

So the birth of all this was like no money. Exactly. I remember tuning into City in the early days, and you'd see just they'd fill in time with a soccer team that just came off the field somewhere I guess around, or maybe playing over at Moss Park and they would come in and sing a soccer song.

There would be all kinds of the news was very edgy. It was great and actually when I think it was the 1980 election, the second one, there was one within two years because the Joe Clark government fell

and they hired all these kids from Centennial College where I went to work election night and kind of get the headphones on like I have now and listen to the results coming in, which we'd put on a board and Deanie Petty went around

to each whiteboard and we were filling in. And that's how you did it. Now you think, you know, today with millions of dollars in computers and graphics and all that. Think back. And then Moses Neimer, who I guess we should credit for all that city vibe. He remember he brought us in his office afterwards. There was an after party.

Oh, wow. All these, you know, and we were all just 18, 19 year old kids. I remember he had a picture of King Kong climbing the CN Tower, fighting off an after party. Oh, wow. All these, you know, and we were all just 18, 19-year-old kids. I remember you had a picture of King Kong climbing the CN Tower, fighting off the snowbirds. I don't know where, I've never seen that picture since, but it's, wow, what a great memory that was.

I thought, what a funky thing to have on your wall. Well, we should go to the Zoomerplex and see if it's still on that wall. That's where he hangs out now. I always, well, I lock my bike up there when I go to Wolfpack matches. Oh, okay. Lamport there.

So, Ryan Walstat has a question for you. Oh, boy. Have you ever heard of Ryan? He's probably watching right now. I have. He's an excellent basketball writer. And unlike me, he has gone four playoff series and covered a champion. So, my hat's off to him.

Is Ryan prepared to see the clicks drop like as he gets he prepared like do you guys i always wonder do you guys get like reports on which of how many clicks your articles get uh that might be true but uh somebody in a higher pay scale is in charge of counting them and i just wonder for guys like ryan uh who will he will never be as red as he was like last june like that would be i I think, and I say that just as a huge Raptor fan. Oh, you don't think they're going to win three or four championships in a row? Maybe we should make a side wager on this one.

It sounds like I have somebody here, but like I can't imagine ever in the history, I can't imagine we'll ever live to see Raptor fever peak higher than we had it in June. Well, i think you're right and i was actually over on vacation in italy so i was kind of watching it from afar but there were still some uh some toronto fans over there i did get home in time for the uh for the parade and i've never seen anything like that i mean obviously everyone says well you know wait till the maple leaves get there

you haven't seen anything yet and people are, how much bigger could it be? Two million people in the streets, especially, I guess, the interesting thing for me was the demographic of all those people I saw. I covered the parade for the sun. And, you know, I would say 60 to 70%

had to be 25 and under. And, you know, a lot of kids, obviously, because people brought their, you know, obviously everybody was not prepared, you know, city officials and everything for it, for what happened. But, uh, you know, I can't see any Leafs celebration being any bigger than that.

Maybe it'll come more from the heart because it's been longer, but. It's definitely been longer. Yeah. For sure. And there are guys like us who, uh, you know, I mean, I was an adult when the Raptors showed up. So that's the difference to me. Like I w I can't imagine being any more happy,

except that there's something about that team you watched when you were like seven, eight years old. So I can never have that story with the Raptors. I was never an eight-year-old Mike watching my Raptors. Yeah, well, you know what? I mean, championships in Toronto have been few and far between, but you think of the Jays. I mean, everyone loved the 93 Jays.

They were a fun team to watch. They had, you know, it sort of embodied Toronto. It was, you know, a cultural mix, a black manager, and everybody, you know, everybody, including people in America and right around the world, took notice of it. And I think there was a bit of that with the Raptors too. You had a, you know, a team without any, you know, really over-the-top personalities. They came together quite nicely. too you had a uh you know a team without any you know really uh over the top personalities they uh

they they came together quite nicely a popular coach and uh you know let's just say it was the perfect storm absolutely absolutely so back to ryan's question here uh ryan by the way lots of raptors gear in vancouver i was oh yeah for sure i couldn't tell i was always funny no grisly stuff i didn't see any Grizzlies. Nothing. Nothing. That's a shame. But I always wondered, as you walk the streets, you see like a Raptor championship hat and a guy.

You're like, is he from Toronto or is he a Vancouver guy? I want to ask these people. Yeah, the interesting thing for me traveling around the NHL is how many players on other teams, like you say, you go down and cover a Dallas Stars practice, and they'll leave and three or four of them have Blue Jay caps. Yeah.

They haven't, you know, and they're not from Toronto. They're just, you know, mostly Canadians. Well, that, I saw a lot of that, but I always, in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, they're on their way to Seattle to watch the Blue Jays. Yes.

Who knows? Okay, so Ryan Walstad, he's waiting anxiously for me to ask the big question. Ask Lance about the Dice League. That was a product of the uh nhl lockout the first uh lockout uh i'm just trying to think no the first lockout was soft this was the year they didn't play they scratched the whole season so uh um and what happened was i think pat was our our boss and we're thinking how can we fill our usual three or four pages of hockey in a season where there's no hockey?

So anyway, I used to play this game as a kid. I borrowed it from Stratomatic. You just kind of rolled the dice and, you know, single, double, triple, and, you know, different combinations were in there. So anyway, I adapted that. This was baseball? Yeah, this was baseball. So what I did was we just played out the whole NHL schedule

and we rolled, you know, we rolled the dice and essentially, you know, Toronto, whatever. We played the whole schedule and we ran the results and I would actually do some mock write-ups of the league going on. And our, you know, our desk, our very creative desk would come up with, you know, with pictures of whatever, you know, I think one we had, what was it? Yeah, John Ferguson was in a fight in the stands with the guy, the mascot of the Quebec Winter Fair. Oh, Bonhomme? Bonhomme Cardeval.

That guy. Yeah, that's right. So, you know, so we'd be, you know, we'd say, we'd have some jokes and all that kind of thing, but the desk would come in. We had pictures of Cam Woolley. Remember the guy from... Of course.

Yeah. He's still around. I think he's on CP20. When he was a policeman and he was always doing those public service things and we'd have him pulling over the Canadian's bus because it was going too fast. So they'd run a picture of Cam writing out a ticket.

So anyway, we had a lot of fun with it. The Dice League. It worked for a while. And then it ran its course. So my boss Pat said start the playoffs, let's wrap it up. That's wild. I think the Leafs lost in the final by the way. At least I got that far.

Oh, that's amazing. We got there. I like your league better than the NHL. Okay, so let me give you some gifts Lance before we proceed here. There's a fresh there's a pack of, a six pack. What do we call it? I see I'm obviously on BC time here six pack

six pack of fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery well I'm not allowed to take freebies but in this in this case I might make an exception

I was going to say all the other sons are happy they ask for more well you know my ball hockey team I'm always in you know

my turn to bring the beer is coming up pretty soon so I may distribute the wealth oh yeah good good good fantastic sponsors of Toronto Mike Great Lakes Brewery I'm always in, you know, my turn to bring the beer is coming up pretty soon. So I may distribute the wealth. Oh, yeah. Good, good, good. Fantastic sponsors of Toronto Mike's Great Lakes Brewery.

Missed them in BC. Couldn't find them anywhere. But that's because 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario. So note to listeners and yourself, Lance, of course, if you would, you'd have to come in all the way from the East End. It's a long way, I know, but people are coming from further. But at Great Lakes Brewery on September 19th, we're having a Toronto Mic'd listener experience.

But this one's a little different than the previous three. This is a live recording. So from 6 to 9 p.m., join us on the patio of Great Lakes Brewery. Your first beer is on the house. And we're going to record an episode. And everybody who wants to and comes, if you want to come and just watch, that's fine. But if you want to come, I have open mics

and we'll all take turns. Everybody can come on the mic and have a quick chat for the episode. So this is going to be a whole whack of fun. We're going to meet all the listeners. So please join us. Join me for TMLX. I've got gotta do the math

for on what day did I say it is September 19th you're right you're taking good notes over there good

so you got your beer I just took this lasagna out of the freezer this is from Palma Pasta oh very good thank you very much lasagna for you

so you can take that home as well thank you thank you my wife will be very happy we don't have to cook tonight that's right Palma Pasta and you can go to palmapasta. Thank you. Thank you. My wife will be very happy. We don't have to cook tonight. That's right. Palma Pasta.

And you can go to palmapasta.com to find out where they are. But they're in Mississauga and Oakville. But they're also on Skip the Dishes. So you'll find them on that popular app. I don't know if you've ever used Skip the Dishes. No, but I've seen the commercials with the guy from Mad Men whose name escapes me. Jon Hamm. Jon Hamm. Thank you very much.

My wife will kill me. She's a big John Hamm fan. But yes, I've seen their commercials. They're quite clever. And yes, skip the dishes. I've seen that a little bit. I'm a big fan of Mad Men. Oh, yeah.

I got my daughter starting it. She's doing it now. But yeah, I love it. And whenever I watch Handmaid's tale too which is not as good as mad men by elizabeth moss right every time i see her i'm like why don't you mind a desk yeah that's right look she's right look at her she's coming yeah she was coming so far and then she fell down to become like a yeah terrible future we have in handmaid's tale but that's shot mostly in Toronto, if I'm not mistaken, too.

Yeah, a lot of Toronto and a little Hamilton and a little Cambridge. Oh. And there's like a... Can't forget the Twin City. Yeah. Is that what it's called? I thought that was... Oh, sorry. That's Kitchener-Waterloo.

Isn't it? No, it's Kitchener-Waterloo I was thinking of. Sorry. Okay, good. I get confused, too. But I did go to Cambridge just because there's this... Not for this reason, but it's a lovely city. But there's a wall where they hang people in the handmaid's tale

and you can walk the river and see the wall. Oh, really? So it's all there. There's nobody dangling from a rope there? No. I checked. By the way, I was in Vancouver and they brag about being Hollywood North and they said something to the effect of like 10% of stuff is shot there.

Like I don't know if it was 10% or what, like Hollywood or whatever. But I feel like we make the same claim here. I think there's a couple of us, we're both claiming to be Hollywood. Yeah, you know what? Even in my neighborhood, you turn around, there's some old churches and that that are used.

And, you know, we're near a nice skyline shot of Toronto that you'll see in a lot of places. Toronto has doubled for about 25 cities around the world. It's quite flattering. But it brings in the tax money, so it's good. And a lot of jobs for people. Oh, for sure. That's the main thing.

And I always like it when I watch a movie and you can kind of recognize that street. Yes. My daughter's very good at that. A lot of that Scott Pilgrim movies were shot around here and she's pointing out stuff that I'd forgotten.

It's tricky now though to keep the condos out of the background there. Every time you look around, there's a crane. That's right. Well, there was, I remember James Reimer

two or three years ago said, I'm going to get a new mask and it's going to be a skyline of Toronto. So I tweeted that and somebody said, is it just going to be a skyline of Toronto. So I tweeted that and somebody said, is it just going to be

a bunch of cranes on his mask? It's true. It's true. By the way, Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, excellent movie, but yeah, you got the pizza pizzas there

and you're like, oh, I know where that pizza pizza is on Yonge Street. So for sure, for sure. Okay, so you got your lasagna and your beer. There's actually stickers down here. You're out of here.

But no, you got to take your stickers. Thank you. That's a Toronto Mike sticker. These stickers, and there's also more. I got you a few more things. Oh, thank you. What is it here?

Oh, yeah. That's the new Lowest of the Low album. It's very good. It's called Agitpop. Thank you. StickerU.com made that sticker for Lowest of the Low, but they also made my Toronto Mike stickers and my temporary tattoo that you can sport there.

Okay. And they have an actual uh bricks and mortar location they opened up i'll have more info on this soon because it's opening of phases but the first phase is open but they're on queen street west like i actually biked over last week and took some video and photos but really cool like physical location where is it uh queen and what is it what the hell am i where am i? East End? It's definitely East. Well, it's West End, but it's East of Dufferin. It's funny because I went to visit.

This was the trip. I went to see, are you familiar with the Watchmen, the band? No, I'm not. Oh, come on. Let's get a place and watch. They're not quite the Ramones,

but they're all right. So the lead singer of the Watchmen is a guy named Danny Graves. He owns and operates a bar called Motel Bar in Parkdale. So it's all West End stuff. So it's all going over your head here. But that is like, what is that? Queen and Dufferin, maybe a tiny bit like west of Dufferin.

So I was visiting with Danny and then I biked a little east and checked out the sticker store. So this is all... You are a Vancouverite, aren't you? That's a very Vancouver thing. That's a West Coast vibe thing to do. Absolutely. Queen Street West. Granola Central is what I say about Queen Street West. So, StickerU,

thank you so much. I'll have more information on a contest we're going to have, but that's you. So you've got to do my roll call here. It's been a while. So you got your lasagna, you got your stickers, you got your beer. I want to get you to Centennial College here, going back to the early eighties. But first I want to thank Brian Gerstein. So thank you, Brian Gerstein wonderful partner of the show Brian had a

one man campaign worked very hard to get Bob McCowan on Toronto Mike he worked very hard he even talked to Bob's agent Gord Kirk

right oh yes Gord is a frequent guest on the team he was Eric Linderhouse's agent for a while that's exactly correct yes so he worked I know he even talked to Gord Kirk and frequent guest on the team. He was Eric Linderhouse's agent for a while. That's exactly correct, yes.

So he worked, I know he even talked to Gord Kirk and there was a whole, like, it didn't work out. Bob's never come by. Well, this low ceiling here may discourage him. He's a tall man, so. But Leo Roudens made it down here. Wow, okay. That's the benchmark.

That's the benchmark. Did you have to take out your first floor to fit his head through? See, this was very, I thought this was very clever. So I said to Leo, like, were you okay there? And he goes, Mike, he made an excellent point. So I'm like 5'9", okay? I'm never watching my head anywhere.

But I would smash my head here. Leo made this excellent point. He said when you're his height, like 6'7", or whatever, you're always watching your head. It's an innate fear so because you're always watching your head yeah you never would hit it here because you're looking anyway right where guys like me we're never looking so we get smashed may i suggest a sign because it just sort of comes out of nowhere if you just maybe watch your head mark hebscher who's a taller man another taller man he wants it uh like a orange strip or something so i might do that yeah it's only taken me a year i'm just thinking of your legal issues if you uh lose one or two we gotta move on from that my uh my lawyer wants us not to dwell on

that he wants us to move on here so uh brian gerstein is a real estate sales representative with psr brokerage uh he's a very honest guy. We'll talk about the market. And if you're looking to buy and or sell, or by the way, or rent, he's doing a lot of leases now too. So call him, just have a conversation, no obligation, 416-873-0292 and have a chat with Brian. He's a good man. He'll be at TMLX4 on uh september 19th so thank you brian and let's get uh lance to so does this tell me like when you realized you wanted to write about anything like when did you want to be a writer uh well you know what i used to obviously like every any kid in toronto watched uh watched hiking night in canada and read the. You know, even going back to the telegram, I delivered the Globe and Mail as a kid in

the beaches for a while. So I consumed all the papers and watched a lot of sports. But when I went to Centennial College, I was just interested in writing in late, I guess turning back a little bit, I took a journalism course at Sir John A. Macdonald High School, Collegiate I should say, in Toronto. And a guy named George Kaufman ran the program. And he had some experience down in the States. And he was the guy who first showed me what newspapers were about, let me be editor of our school paper. what newspapers were about, let me be editor of our school paper.

And from there, I went to Centennial and was lucky enough to write right away at the school paper there, the asylum, for any of those at Centennial who remember. And my sports editor was Scott Morrison, who has recently moved on from CBC and Sportsnet. But he was destined to go to the Sun, and I've sort of been following him along the career track for a little while. And yeah, I was at Centennial three years and did a work placement at the Sun through Mr. Gross, who we talked about earlier. And that's about it.

Not to bore anyone any further. No, I don't even care if they're bored. I'm interested. That's what matters here, Len. So I've been lucky to have stayed that long. A lot of people in the business, especially from Toronto, have to go out west. I think of my colleague Steve Simmons, for example, who went to Calgary Sun. Dave Schultz out that way as well. Ken Fidlin, a lot of the people at The Sun.

Worked at smaller papers and came back. Eric DeHatchick, I guess, is another one. Worked in Calgary for so many years. I was very fortunate. Started in Toronto and except for about a six-week gig at The Star in 1981 when they had a community newspaper thing called Neighbours. I've been at The Sun ever since. Wow, okay.

So firstly, I need to let everybody know that Scott Morrison is booked for Toronto Mike. He's got a date and time. That's a big deal. He's got some time on his hands now. So I hear. So he was, yeah, I reached out to him. He was always on my list. See, this is 502, but my list is very long. So a lot of people, I always, like you weren't offended that you were not asked until 500. Well, no, I always, like you weren't offended that you were not asked until 500. Well, no,

I noticed you had Terry Koshan on and then I saw his interview clocked in at an hour 43. Terry doesn't say that much in a year. So I was quite,

I was quite shocked. And then you had Dave Schultz on about three times if I'm not mistaken. I want to say more than that because he kicked out the jams. Schultz is a dear friend of the program

if I may say. Well, he's been out here four times. Maybe I've not seen him at the practice rink, which is around here four times.

So it's good to know he's got his priorities straight. But I can say that now. He's retired. Yeah, and he also, he comes for the lasagna and the beer here. Yeah, that's right.

He famously crapped all over at Great Lakes Brewery. He did a stand-up comedy routine at the brewery. I just saw one of his routines. I think he made the quarterfinals of the Toronto Comedy Brawl.

So he dragged... Wow. He essentially at knife point took a whole bunch of writers to stack the house. But he actually is very good. And it's very hard to take you know, to take a second career, you know, so late in life. But he, you know, he has a lot of fun with it. He's doing all right. He's following in the footsteps of Gear Joyce.

Yes. Another friend of the show, I guess. I see Gear's been on here a couple of times. Gear is. Tells a great story. But you just got to make time for that story because he doesn't rush through any stories. No. So you got to make time for that story because he doesn't rush through any stories. No. So you got to make sure you got,

so I know that, you know, I need to make sure I've got two and a half hours to get the good stories out of Garrett, but he's got tremendous stories. Yes, he does. Yes.

He's, you know, an author of many, many books. I think he's got another one in Sidney Crosby coming out now. Yes, he does.

Yes, he does. There's like a launch coming up or something, but he also is a rich man now because he's making millions off his jason priestly uh project yeah what's it called again privatizers i think so yes yeah so a millionaire might be stretching it that's right but well to get to you you're uh i noticed you drove up in the bentley from all the books you're selling so we're gonna we're gonna get get to that shortly

so all right so uh so i meant yeah yeah, Scott Morrison's coming on. Uh, it's a good guy to follow except, uh, you, you, so is that, you said six weeks or something at the star, but you've, you've only worked for the sun pretty much. Is that right? Yeah. Since 81. So I'm, uh, I'm quite fortunate. Uh, like to, uh, you know, like, um, well, that's amazing. We're still traveling. We're still putting out a lot of sports pages, which I hope all the listeners out there are following. You know, there's a lot going on in Toronto, even in the summertime. And we do a great job with the sun on football, on baseball,

and keeping a hockey presence and all the, you know, there's a lot of tennis and golf going on right now. So it's sort of the dry gulch right now in terms of coverage and everything will get going again right now. So it's sort of the dry gulch right now in terms of coverage and everything will get going again in autumn. But I think we've always done a great job of having the best sports pages in the country. I always give you guys your, again, more props for you guys this time because, yeah, I think you guys as a sports department do a great job and it is nice to see you still, you know, you'll still send, I guess Longley, I guess, gets to is nice to see you still, you know, you'll still send, uh, I guess Longley, I guess,

gets to go to Seattle and you still, you know, you're still sending guys on the road where a lot of papers have stopped doing that. Yeah. You know what you have to, uh, you know, that's where the news is. You'd hate to be away if, uh, whatever, if Boba shit gets hurt or somebody throws a no hitter, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's pretty dicey, you know, to not be around and not be with the team as close as you can be. And it's certainly, you know, although just being with them day to day

doesn't necessarily mean you can have a scoop every day, but it certainly helps down the road when you're compiling features or you get to see other teams. And, you know, as a voter for the NHL Awards, for example, it really helps that I can actually see these other teams and you know um as a voter for the nhl awards for example i'm you know it really helps that i can actually see these other teams when i'm traveling and you know when i sit down to do my ballot it's because you know i feel good with my choices because i've seen a lot of these guys because i am able to travel i yeah yeah that's the way it should be like uh yeah that's

the way it always was and it's now you go yeah the last stalwarts. Yeah, and I would be remiss not to mention all the people who came before me. Trent Frayne and Mr. Gross and all the great columnists we had. Bob Elliott, our Hall of Fame baseball writer. Bob. He's been on. Did you have him? Yeah. Four or five hours?

How long did that take? Two hours with an intermission. I think it's a very rare episode where there was a, well, because he double fists the Diet Coke. Yes. You can't go two hours without a bathroom break. He could walk into an empty room and come out with a Diet Coke. He's got a, yeah. And I'm like a broken record with this one.

But he did, I met him at the door. I was really excited. I used to hear him on like, I guess, primetime sports and stuff. And I really liked his stories and his delivery style. A million stories. Amazing, right? And he had two Diet Cokes, and I'm thinking, what a nice guy. He brought me a Diet Coke.

That was 100%. It took me a little, I'm not so quick, as you might have noticed, so it took me a little while to realize, oh, they're both for him. Yes. That's his drink of choice. I will always admire him. There was, you know, he worked late into the night, I recall.

He was always talking to his friends in whatever, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Of course, they're on a different time zone. You can appreciate that being with your Vancouver. I do. Right now it's like 6 a.m. for me. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, he would work late into the night with those guys.

And that's how he came up with those amazing stories and notes for his, and his scoops for, you know, he would work late into the night with those guys. And that's how he came up with those amazing stories and notes for his, and his scoops for, you know, for our Sunday paper. Because he, you know, he was so well connected around baseball. I know. He's fantastic. I wish he was, I mean, he does do work with the Canadian baseball. I get this. What is it again?

Do you remember? Canadian baseball something? Yes. Canadian. It's a really good website because even the other day he was telling me about going out to see the under 15 championships in Whitby

you know Whitby against BC and all that yeah and it's the exact name of the website escapes me but he's done a great job and he's got some wonderful people working with him who are down at the Jays all the time, and they're carrying on his great work.

Yeah, awesome, for sure. And I'm going to get him back. He's going to come back. We had a good chat on the phone. We had a good chat when the news leaked that Roy Halladay tried to get a job. I guess Bob Elliott put this in something he wrote about. Roy Halladay wanted to work with the Blue Jays, like minor league pitchers, tried to get a job. I guess Bob Elliott put this in something he wrote about.

Roy Halladay wanted to work with the Blue Jays, like minor league pitchers, and he was told to like apply for it. And I guess he didn't get this. And there's just, just there was a, this is obviously well before, before Roy.

I don't know. Actually, maybe he wrote it after Roy passed away. I can't remember that detail, but anyway, there was quite the, quite the interesting conversation about that and uh like why roy ended up working for the phillies organization instead of the blue jays but yeah bob leaguet's got a lot of great stories and he's very well connected now uh you cover of course

canadian baseball network that was okay good i knew it was canadian baseball something like what the hell is that association what is that uh did you always cover hockey? Like, where did you start? Oh, I started covering actually high school sports was my first thing. That's what Scott Morrison had done actually ahead of me. And that's that involved, you know, essentially from going from my house. I lived up way out in Scarborough at the time. I come into the sun and do some work. And then I go out to, let's say, the Etobicoke Olympium, which is way out, I'm not sure if that's still called that. I think it is. Yeah, all by TTC, and then go back and take all these high school scores, $3 for senior scores, $2 for junior scores, I never knew what the difference was there. And I wrote those all down by hand, typed them in,

and then wrote a high school story. So it was a very, you know, a long day for me a lot of times, but it really introduced me to, you know, the not only different sports, but we had a top 10. We used to rank the top 10 basketball teams in Toronto, and Toronto's still a big high school basketball. Oh, yeah, like, I mean, these people are the Runnymede Redmen. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, George Harvey and in my end of town, Eastern Commerce, Oakwood was outstanding. And North Albion had a great team. And that was, you know, so many people were following that in the newspaper and would do the top 10 or the top 10 hockey. So that's what I started doing.

And to this day, it's a great icebreaker. When I meet somebody from Toronto, say, what high school did you go to? Because I know where it is, how to get there by TTC, and probably one of their teachers that was coaching at the time. Okay, can we play this game right now? Oh boy, okay.

Michael Power. Michael Power. There was a hockey coach named Tackery, I think. He went on to coach someone else. I know the Shanahans went there. That was a big thing. Yeah. That's all you need to know.

The Shanahans went there. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let's stop there. I'm going to quit while I'm ahead. Drake Barahowski went there. Yeah.

No, Drake Barahowski. Did he go there? I thought his dad was a coach at Western Technical. I'm pretty sure. His dad coached football. I was led to believe he went to power. Well, I know his dad coached. That may be true about Drake,

but I know his dad coached in the TSAA. Interesting, yeah. I think he was 10th overall draft pick by our Toronto Maple Leafs, as I recall. Around 89 or 90, I think. That draft, I believe, might have been in recall. That's right. Around 89 or 90, I think. Yeah, that sounds about right. That draft, I believe, might have been in Vancouver. Everything's about Vancouver.

This is Vancouver Mike. That's what this is today. Now, nobody's covering high school anymore, right? No, sadly. And all three papers, The Globe, The Star, and The Sun, used to go head-to-head on it. And it was as competitive as the Leafs were. Yeah, there was...

Who's the guy for the star? I remember forever he covered it. Yeah, yeah, he was related to... Yeah, his name was David something or other. But there was a lot of other... I know Neil Campbell was at the Globe. I know Mark Zolinski did it for a while. And, you know, the whole... Alan Ryan, I think, predated even me.

And it was Alan Ryan against Scott Morrison and Neil Campbell for a long time. And I followed in those footsteps and graduated to the college sports, which were really big. I mean, you know, hard to believe now, but, you know, OUAA football was covered extensively. Right. You know, especially when still, and Western still does have great teams, but inevitably they'd beat Toronto. But I remember, I think it was around 83, Toronto won the Vanier Cup.

Okay, because they won again, because I went there and they won when I was there. Mario Storino was the quarterback. Oh, okay, yeah. So what, it'll be the early 90s? Maybe mid to late 90s. I want to say like 94 or something like that. Well, it's funny. The first thing I ever

covered was when I went to Centennial, I used to hang around a mother's restaurant a lot. Mother's Pizzeria. Wasn't Ernie Witt in the guys? Ernie Witt and Cito Gaston was an investor, but that was a big thing around Centennial. We had a mother's there. And we used to hang around the one at near Varsity Stadium.

Right. And we were, you know, we're ne'er-do-wells, my college friends and I. So we'd get the boot out of there. So we got the boot for misbehaving. Anyway, two weeks later, I started The Sun and covered a press conference for the OUAA the start of the season. So I was all the beer and all the pizza I could consume.

And I'd made it served by the same people who kicked me out two weeks ago. So I thought if I never write another story, I've made it in the journalism world. Much love to Mother's Pizza, which I completely loved. There was one in the West End people. We'll know the one near,

I think it's Dundas near, not far from, I think it's called the Rock Pile now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there was one. My favorite one was Danforth and Danforth Road just around the corner from Centennial, but there was one near Varsity, and they have tried to revise the chain.

There's one in Dundas, Ontario that a couple of friends, or Ancaster, that friends have asked me to go to, run by the same people. Okay, so I was going to say, is it the same taste and everything? Well, I don't know if the waitresses run around in those chambermaid outfits. That was certainly a thrill for a young man in those days.

But that was, you know, as long as the food, I remember the, you know, the Tuesday was spaghetti special and all you couldat salad bar. For a student, it was a good deal. For sure. Pizza pasta made perfect. And the Father's size steins, too. I can't not mention those.

Mother, we got everything in this episode. Mother's pizzeria. Miss Mother's. I know it's, get it back. Dundas seems really far away. Bring it back. Okay, so your high school sports, and then maybe drop some other sports you covered there. I was lucky enough to, you know, the thing about the Sun was because we covered so many sports that you'd sometimes,

I'll never forget this, doing Argos, Jays and Leafs in the same day. Like you may be at an Argo practice. The Leafs would do something, maybe announce a signing, and then something else would happen. So sometimes you'd be doing two or three assignments in one day, and Mr. Gross was very big on covering small stuff. He would always say, you know, these are the readers of tomorrow, so I might be out at a public school track meet as I was. Okay.

Like the Catholic school board had a day-long track meet, and you would just take 3,000 kids, but you'd have to get the results in. But you get your name, you know, it's like a small town, right? You get the name in once, and, you know, everybody buys a paper. And all that stuff is essentially, obviously, these are victims of, you know, as the advertising revenue shrinks, this is just budget cuts overall. And the first things that go, I guess, are that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, which is sad.

But you know what? The internet is here, too. And that, you know, people guess, are that kind of thing. Yeah, which is sad. But you know what? The internet is here too. And people will notice that ourselves and the star and the globe rarely have standings and leading scores and all that. All that stuff is on the net right now. So we are beholden to the digital world. But you can also see all our stuff online now, which you couldn't before. So there's really no,

there's no day off, no time off. If something, you know, it hopefully doesn't happen while I'm on the show here, but if they, if the lease were to make a trade or something, it would be,

you know, you have to have something ready to go in 15 or 20 minutes, you know, to, to, for us to put on the, on the net and Not just us, but sports net and TSN

have... Yeah, that's right. If there's suddenly dead air, then you'll know what happened. There's an intermission. Marner has decided to sign during this episode here. But we're going to revisit something I brought up earlier, but I'm just curious. Only because Kevin McGrann, you probably saw him at the

Schultz. He must have come out for the stand-up. Oh yeah, he was sitting right beside me, as a matter of fact. He's the official videographer of the stand-up. I think he likes to take the video for the stand-up. Yes, well I can safely say that that tape won't be worth anything at all

in 10 or 20 years, but it'll be good for a few laughs at the bar one night. Oh, that's worth it then. Okay. So I'm very curious about writers and how clicks drive content. And so am I correct? Is it that you said that you are not aware of what click counts on articles that you write? I could probably look it up and probably people out there.

But nobody's like us. It's certainly a modest amount that I wouldn't be able to hang my hat on. I do know this. The leaves do well. The sun does well. The leaves do well. And I'm sure the leaves do well for the other papers as well in that. I think it was my friend Chris Johnston from Sportsnet.

At the end of the year one day, I think it was leaf clean out day. He had a few minutes and he was a very busy guy, but he had that time. He's just looking through his stories for the year. And he said, guess what? The number one followed story I had of the year was, and Chris breaks a lot of stories, of course, and it was somebody changing their uniform number.

That had, you know, it was, you know, but that kind of thing drives, you know, God bless the Leaf fans and hockey fans. That kind of thing is, I God bless the Leaf fans and hockey fans that kind of thing is mean certainly to my generation it was a big thing if something like that happened

and anytime I do that like I you know mentioned the other day that I think Ben Harper was going to wear 22 or Kenny Agostino was going to wear 20 and I always put that in

because that seems to you know and in the questions they get as soon as they at least get a new guy what number is he going to wear right

it's interesting stuff like that. Well, Neillander changed numbers, and it was a big story, right? Oh, God, I know, for sure. Controversy? People were calling Eric Lindros to get his reaction to it. It was quite interesting. Although I never did understand that story, because it did seem like there was some outrage coming from some corners of the internet,

but it never made sense to me. Like, Lindros played how many games for the Leafs? This is not the Flyers making an idea. I know, I know. It didn't make any sense to me. Lindros played how many games for the Leafs? This is not the Flyers making an idea. I know, I know. It doesn't make any sense to me. If you're asking me to explain the mentality of some Twitter followers, then I don't think we have time.

It would be like if the Raptors wouldn't let people use Akeem Olajuwon's number because he was a Toronto Raptor. Oh, for sure, for sure. But I mean, you know, merchandising is such a huge part of sports these days that people are, you know, I'm sure people, as soon as they find that out, they're, you know,

interesting too that Nylander said he was going to pay the cost to request, you know, some of the names and all that sort of thing. But yeah, you want to get that. And I'm sure that the team's always angry at me when I say my first question after they, you know, announce that we got this guy, I say, what number is he going to wear?

Or somebody's been called up, what number is he going to wear? Because it's a big deal, things like that. But, you know, we're getting back to your question about clicks. Clicks driving content. Yeah, yeah. You know, you get it in as fast as you can. The interesting thing is if, you know, I would have a really good story, but if you wait too long, and I retweet every story,

once the headline's on it and the picture's in it, it all looks nice in the paper and the layout, I'll put it out the next morning. But obviously by then, most people have seen it in its raw form when I've just done the web hit. So, you know, that just underlines how important it is to get it out there as fast as you can. Most people have seen it in its raw form when I've just done the web hit. So, you know, that just underlines how important it is to get it out there as fast as you can. I think I've said, again, a broken record, but McGran said, like, he's got to write about one of four guys.

Like, he's got to write, it's got to be Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, or Marner. I don't necessarily, I mean, yes, certainly that's the... Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, I see what he says by that. He says, like, I think he told me straight up. He's like, I can't just go write a piece about Freddie Anderson for goodness sakes,

you know, goaltender for your Toronto Maple Leafs because he's got to be one of the four. And he says, maybe Riley... Oh, no, I see

what he's trying to say. Yeah, oh, for sure. For sure. But I tell you, at this time of year, I've been out at the Summer Skates for two weeks now.

Yeah. And for the first time talking to guys like Agostino or finding out, you know, what it's like for Jake Muzzin to be in his first, you know, his first full camp with the Leafs. All these new guys that are coming in. I wrote about Garrett Wilson today, you know, interesting story that he was a member of the Buds Club as a, you know, as a five or six year old, five or six year old kid. And you get some really good, you know, really good insight in that and come the regular season, like those four or five people, I guess Kevin's talking about, they are going to dominate, but there's some really good stories there that you want to get to. And especially at our paper, we have to put out two or three pages a day,

and we have a notebook section. I mean, that stuff is gold for our notes, and there's a lot of people who are quite interested in that thing and in what the Toronto Marlies are doing and what the new coaching staff is doing. Well, I'm glad to hear this, actually. I'm really glad to hear this, because I think it's really dangerous for clicks to drive content,

because if you're just, you know, it's sort of the reason, you know, like with the news start covering, like, oh, the Kardashians had another breakup're just, you know, it's sort of the reason, you know, like with the news start covering like, oh, the Kardashians had another breakup or something, you know what I mean?

Because we guess maybe that gets more. Oh God, I think it was, I think it was TSN and I apologize if I'm wrong, but it was getting so, hockey news was getting so dry

at some point two weeks ago. One of their stories was Matthews and Nylander chirping each other about their facial hair, which may, you know what? Well, summer, yeah, dog days are summer. Like there's, you know, I mean, there's a lot of,

you know, it's a different era now than, you know, the 80s and the 90s, and that's, you know, that's big for people. But I thought, well, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to go down that road quite yet, at least until they get there. And I actually, you know, can actually hear them say it themselves.

But them going after it, them going after each other on Twitter. Yeah, like probably Instagram or something. Exactly. And Instagram is, you know, but you have to be, you know, you got to be quite savvy in those things to stay up with it.

And thank God we have people at our paper who alert me to these things if they happen. For sure, for sure. And I'm going to ask you about some of your colleagues here. I always love to bring up some colleagues, particularly now that... You're going to have to wait for my book when I retire. Well, we'll see. We'll see what I can extract from you.

I can be very persuasive. I get you comfy, you know, give you some beer and lasagna. Next thing you know, you're telling me what you really think. So that's all part of my strategy. But if you want to know what Rupesh Kapadia really thinks, so Rupesh is the rock star accountant who sees beyond the numbers. And I could tell you how great he is as an accountant. But what I think is better is if we hear from a great friend of the show, Milan, he'll tell us what he thinks of Rupesh Kapadia. Hello, Toronto Mike listeners. This is Milan from Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair.

We've been using Capadia LLP for many years, providing guidance for all of our corporate and personal accounting needs. Over the years, Rupesh Capadia has put together an effective tax plan for his clients. And the bottom line is he and his expert team of accountants save you money. Thanks, Toronto Mike. And thank you, Capadia LLP. And if anyone, including you, Lance, would like a complimentary consultation with Rupesh, I can happily arrange that, cost you nothing, and get his best practices and insight into whatever business dealings or questions you have that a,

a rockstar accountant, the Ramones accountant can help you with here. So he can help you out now. Thank you. Now I'm going to start with what I think is probably the most, I want to say the most famous column, sports columnist at the sun right now. I hope that we'll see if you agree or not,

but Steve Simmons, he's already come up because of course, you know, he fired Howard, he got Howard Berger fired in Calgary. I don't know if you've heard this. I've, uh, I've heard many people take credit for that. Uh, I'm just kidding. Poor Howard. He might be, he's a good, good man about Howard Berger, but, uh, yeah, he was, uh, accidentally, as Steve says, he didn't want to get Howard Berger fired, but he did cause him getting fired in Calgary. But, uh, Steve But Steve Simmons, what kind of guy is Steve Simmons? I've had the pleasure of working with him for a long time. And certainly he likes to stir it up,

but he certainly gets it in terms of the stuff we were just talking about, Toronto in the 70s and the 80s, and people who get the references to all those players. He knows a lot of background on these guys through their agency, their junior hockey. He's a very good minor hockey coach. I don't think he does that anymore because his kids have grown up.

His son's been on the show. Yeah, yeah, Jeff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. have grown up. His son's been on this show. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've, uh, no,

I, he certainly, uh, has a talent for, uh, for, uh, angering,

uh, people. And it's, it's quite interesting that, uh, when I, when I, I,

I retweet a lot of what he writes and, subsequently get all the, the hate mail meant for him comes to my, uh, welcome to the club. Exactly. Exactly. But,

uh, no, I, you know, we've, we've had some, uh, really good times, uh, traveling, uh welcome to the club exactly exactly but uh no i you know we've we've had some uh really good times uh traveling uh with the Leafs i think we're going down uh together to the camp in St. John's in a in a couple of weeks and uh you know he's one of those guys it's quite interesting and not just you but other people just you know you see people meet him and you don't know who that is and it turns out to be some agent or some owner or something like that.

So it's really good to have one of those guys on the bench for us. Agreed. There's a gentleman who I missed his entire era in the city and I didn't really know this guy. You'll know him, of course, but Leo Cahill. Am I saying it right? Cahill? Exactly. I mean, there's, you know, Steve is a conduit to people like that. And he's campaigned tirelessly to get Leo in the Canadian Hall. And I think it's Bill Simons and some other guys.

And, you know, Steve's a guy that keeps that going. Now, you may disagree, obviously, with a lot of people that he's… Oh, like Phil Kessel stories. Well, yeah, that's not where I was going, but since you're going to go down that hole, sure, I mean, there was... But, you know, Kessel was such a... You couldn't not comment about Phil.

And, you know, Phil certainly had the last laugh on many people, not just Steve, by winning a couple of Stanley Cups. But Phil's also a person who sort of invites that. And as, you know, I certainly, he was certainly one of the more challenging people for me to cover over the years because he literally would go two or three weeks

without talking. And my side job as chapter chairman for the Professional Hockey Writers Association chapter here in Toronto, you know, we're sometimes butting heads with the club to get him to come out, you know, once or sometimes butting heads with the club to get him to come out, you know, once or twice to speak. And sometimes they'd come out and they say, well, Phil will talk to you, but he doesn't

want to talk to anyone else. And I say, well, no, it doesn't really work that way. He's got to come out and talk to everybody. So it was like kind of pulling teeth. He was just shy, right? Is that essentially it? Well, it was, but you know what? When they brought him in, he said, I'll never forget this.

He said, well, you know, I'm really happy to be in toronto it's a new start for me i in a direct quote i really think i'm gonna really looking forward to working with the media i wish i'd i'd uh i wish i'd really highlighted that uh that quote because but you know what he's uh you know they um you know all you really want is for you know to for him to uh comment you know five minutes a day. Doug Gillimore was very famous for saying, it's a 24-hour day. For us to give five minutes to the media is not a big thing.

And sadly, that's one of the things that's changed. I mean, Kessel is a very private person and a shy person. So that certainly factors into it. And you have to respect that but uh you know when we can't get people to say you know for you know a few minutes not even five minutes because uh it's so rushed in there and there's so many numbers in the right in the toronto media corps that you uh you know you hope they uh they sort of embrace that and will give you the time of day and certainly this is a great time of year to do it again being down

with those skates the last so there you know so long, there's no end to optimism, obviously, about the coming season. Hope springs eternal. Everybody wants to talk. Exactly. Who is the best quote right now in the Leafs? The best quote, I think it's going to be Jake Muzzin. He's very, you know, Morgan Rielly has always, always been good. I guess we've lost Kadri, sadly.

That's one bad thing about the trade, because Nazem had a quote for us, whether we wanted one or not. That's a good point. And it would always come out, and you could talk to him about anything. There could be something that happened in the real world, so to speak, and that maybe needed a...

People would be interested in the Leafs' take on that, and Nazem would have it. Something going on in the league, some crazy goal that you saw on' take on that. And Nazem would have it. Something going on in the league, some crazy goal that you saw on the West Coast at night. Nazem would have seen it and he'd have something to say to it. You know, that kind of thing. So replacing him will be hard. Riley, you know, he's had a couple of incidents, obviously, that would, you know, cause him maybe to shut it down a little bit.

I hope that's not the case. He's, you know, cause him maybe to shut it down a little bit. I hope that's not the case. He's, you know, very good. It's part of the reason I think they've made him alternate captain is that he's, and maybe who knows down the road. I was going to ask, do you have a prediction? Like who is the next captain? I'm just so happy that finally Toronto people have gone away from, now's a good time for the Leafs to unveil that

because people, I could not understand the fascination with, I guess I could understand the fascination, but when the Leafs said, okay, we're not going to name a captain, people were still dragging it up every day. Who's going to be the captain? You know, this, that, and the other thing. And I guess I bring that up because they did so well without one. It was such a minor part.

They were a 100-point team two years in a row without a captain. But you see, Lance, with a captain, we might actually win a round. Well, yeah. Well, you know what? I've seen, you know, everyone says, Lance, with a captain, we might actually win a round. Well, you know what, that's, I've seen, you know, everyone says, well, why can't, you know, why can't they find someone like Mark Messier who behind the scenes

or, you know, I think maybe even Gary Roberts and Tucker and maybe Domi in the old days did that when Matt Sundin was captain. They were the guys who, you know, would be more likely to throw somebody up against a wall and, you know, say you're not giving 100%, who, you know, would be more likely to throw somebody up against the wall and, you know, say you're not giving 100%. But, you know, I can't see the captaincy being, you know, Matthews is comfortable enough to take that role, that Riley has been, you know, certainly one of the people who's done a great job

showing that he can play on the ice, handle the pressure, be the face of the team, that kind of thing. You know, and I guess to counteract what I'm saying, they needed someone like that in the Phaneuf Kessel year when, you know, Dion was sort of a captain in name only.

He really didn't embrace that role. Right. Now, Phaneuf's an unrestricted free agent, unsigned, as you probably know. Although I have been unplugged for a week, so things could have happened.

All I saw in the news of sports was Andrew Luck. No, he's in that big parking lot of unrestricted, or I'm sorry, unrestricted or restricted free agents. So you never know. Everyone says Jake Gardner might be the,

you know, he might make a surprise comeback, although that's going to take some finagling on Kyle Dubas' part. Right, because, yes, salary cap issues. But I was going to ask if you had a prediction where Gardner would end up, because I saw he's on that list. Yeah, well, I'd have to take a closer look.

Everyone thought Minnesota, because they'd like to play closer to home, but I think someone will take, take him at four, five, whatever million and have a, you know, he'll be quite happy to go.

He just doesn't want to, you know, doesn't want to exhaust all this opportunity in Toronto, which says a lot about the guy because people haven't exactly been kind to him over the years. He's been a bit of a whipping boy, I'd say. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's sort of in his, his, he a bit of a whipping boy, I'd say. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it's sort of in his, he can sort of take that. And, you know, but he has, he loves it in Toronto. He loves his team. He loves his teammates. And he's been able to, you know, let it, not let it roll off his back, but certainly it hasn't affected him.

The fact that he wants to come back, despite having, you know, the two playoffs go south on him. He likes it here. He's a really funny guy and he's a good part of team chemistry. I personally think the Leafs are going to have to move on, especially if they're trying to fit Marner in. But it should be interesting.

Now, all these tangents came off the Steve Simmons question. Do you think Simmons is intentionally playing the role of heel here? Like, do you think this, you mentioned... Well, you need someone to, you know, well, no, poking the hornet's nest. Like, do you think this is, like,

essentially when Andre the Giant went bad, if you will, or when Hulk Hogan went bad. No, Steve's always like that. I mean, it's, you know, it behooves, I think, your columnist to question. There's a lot of fawning over athletes in Toronto still.

You need someone to look at the other side and take a hard look at it. Certainly some athletes don't have... He's crossed swords with them as well. But there's a reason that his Sunday notes are the most well-read notes in the country. Is that, because I have heard that, and that's fact, right?

It's not just some, you know, spin or something. Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, I read it. It puts a lot of work to it. I mean, there's, you know, it'd be different for me to sit down and do a full page of leaf notes and, you know, if I had a lot a lot you know i could make it fairly uh interesting if given enough time you know to make background calls and all that but he does all all the sports and comes up with some uh really interesting uh um statistics some really interesting takes on

things and you know he obviously follows uh what's going on with the other columnists and teams around North America. And, you know, I think readers, agree or disagree with him, are better for it. What about, what's it like working with Rob Longley? Rob and I have gone along. Remember, he's a big Etobicoke fan, first of all. He's from here, and he's often telling me about, he and Steve Buffery telling me about how smart the average Etobicokean is over the rest of Toronto. I live here, I can tell you that's true.

No, Rob and I, we covered the Leafs together, and now we're doing a lot of Blue Jays together. He switched over a little while ago. He actually came on to the Leaf beat, then went back to Jays, and uh you know he's done a lot of uh like me he's he's sort of had the same career path as i have covering covering many sports he's really excelled at baseball i think you know some of the great uh i you know great things he's done he's actually given some credit here i got my gut went down talked to charlie

montoya you know when uh you know he he thinks ahead, thinks outside the box. He just did the Donald's, right? Exactly. It's great. Like, that's the kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And it's not, I don't think baseball was his first love, but he certainly embraced it. For a guy, though, who, if it's not his first love and he's pretty new to the beat and stuff, he's one of the best guys covering the Jays today.

Like, I think you don't even know if he gets enough credit for the job he does. Well, the thing, too, is that we, you know, you mentioned earlier about travel. We travel to all the road games. I don't think all the other papers do that. So you're there, you know, once you're there, it's a big, you know, and get to know them and get to, you know, know the ball. And, you know, as you know, players are much better on the road. They're more relaxed.

I mean, you know, you can, you know, you even bump into this, bump into them in the hotel lobbies and restaurants and things like that, which you wouldn't do in Toronto because they're completely underground. Or if they're in the situation at SBA or the Ford Performance Center,

there's a hundred people there. So we don't get many one-on-ones to make a long story short. So it's really good to see them. And even in the old days, when the Leafs traveled commercial, you'd be sitting next to Matt Sundin from a flight from LA to Toronto and

talking about everything except hockey. I just learned recently that Matt was a smoker. Like apparently he's always smoked. Yeah, he's quite the hermit. Again, he's a very fascinating guy to talk to. He very rarely let that side of him out. He's just the kind of person he was. But who knew he's a very fascinating guy to talk to. He very rarely let that side of him out.

He's just the kind of person he was. But who knew he was a gambler too? He belonged to that poker website for a long time. But he's doing some philanthropy now. There's an institute in Stockholm that's interested in the development of children in the first three years of life. And they have a partner program at the University of Toronto. He puts a lot of, his mother was a nurse. He's got a couple of kids now.

So he's, you know, he's branching out now, certainly. But he was a very, you know, he was a guy who came out, you know, you talk about the impact of a captain. He came out, wouldn't lose or draw in the days when there were ties. Right. And talked, and that certainly, you know, so when he went and left on his own terms. To Vancouver? I had no problem with that.

Everything's about Vancouver, of course. Didn't win a cup there, though, unless I missed my guess. No, I was pissed off at that because he should have let us trade him for futures in some... Oh, I mean, that's why they got mad at him in Toronto for it because he wouldn't, you know, but he'd given the guy, whatever. He's a leading scorer in franchise history and they wanted him to, you know, they wanted him to... Or at least retire a Leaf. You know, retire a Leaf and everything's all fine. Yeah, yeah.

Well, there's not many captains who retired Leafs going... Maybe George Armstrong was the last one. I've often used that quote, but I can't remember now. I don't think there's been one. You mean retired as still captain? No, retired as a Leaf.

Yes, so he would be, but he did not retire as captain, obviously. Wendell would, I think it was on his third go around that he retired as a Leaf. But I mean, so many of them, you know, Sittler and Keon going back to the Ballard era had, you know, Rob Ramage, you know, moved, he claimed on waivers, you know, FNUF, all that kind of thing. It was, being captain of the Leafs is, although I remember Daryl Sittler saying, when you win, it's the greatest job in the world. But, you know, when things aren't going well, you certainly feel the heat.

Yeah, for sure. By the way, you mentioned the Ford Center, whatever they're calling that thing. How come it was never announced? They just changed the name. We're still supposed to call it the MasterCard Center. What is that about? Like, I guess that's... It doesn't happen until September 1st.

And yeah, we have a couple of guys at our desk who are very very precise on that so when i uh when i kept calling at the mastercard center even this month they were getting mad at me and i said uh well and i asked the leaves i said no no it's until it's a marketing thing until september 1st it uh anyway i just say you know what i say sign up and i think this is dumb i just say leave practice rink and leave practice rink. Somewhere in, I guess I was going to say Mimico, but I don't, I think that might be New Toronto. This is,

I believe if you're on that side of New Toronto. Yeah. Well, they were at Lakeshore Lions for many years. I can't remember if that arena is still up, but that's like a stone's throw from where they are now. Right.

But the best used to be when they practiced at the gardens because it was like five minutes from my house, games and practices. I subsequently spent the best years of my life traveling to and from MasterCard or Ford Performance Center or whatever on the TTC. Good old days.

Yes, yes. Oh, well, it gives me a good time to read a book or to write. Buffery, we mentioned him, but except for Walstad, who I guess is a, how long, I don't know how long Walstad's been there, but most of you have been there. 15, 20 years now. That's true. You know what?

So who's the, got the least service years in the Toronto Suns? The least service years. It's Walstad, right? Yeah. No, I see. Well, Walstad and Terry Coshen are pretty close, I think. But even then, like I say, 50, I remember Terry, when Al Strachan was working for us, Terry had just started on the Leafs and that would have been Quinn's

early years around 2000. So we're almost, yeah, even though the, the, the, the, the,

you know, so-called junior people, they've been around, right, a good 20 years now. We're close to it. And I, what I believe to be true

and I've noticed it is that you'll have people like Bob Elliott and others others or zeisberger and stuff will leave after many years but aren't replaced like the rest of you just have to wear more hats or whatever exactly exactly well they you know we've still done a pretty good job of kind of covering the basis but you get good guys like frank ziccarelli who have been you know he'll he can cover basketball, football, those two. Mike Ganter is a guy you haven't mentioned yet. Right.

Because I haven't had him over yet. That's why I've got to get him over here. No, he'll tell you some pretty good stories. He's covered many of the sports I have and was just probably out of mind because he did such great work on the Raptors. He's owed a ton of time, so you haven't seen him out yet. I'm sure he'll come back after Labor Day, though. So yeah, you're right. To your point, there's a lot of people doing a whole bunch of different things. And that's where, you know, getting back to a guy like Simmons, that's where he comes in as valuable as he is. He's better than a one-trick pony like myself who just covers hockey and the odd baseball game.

pony like myself who just uh covers uh hockey and the odd baseball game now um again you guys do a great job over there but is there is there is i mean i always wonder about uh like diversity in media like for so so the toronto sun sports writers uh they're all uh how do i say this and now walsted's not i don't know maybe walsted is older than i think maybe he just looks young to me because i'm getting older myself or whatever. But you're all white guys? Old white guys, is that what you're saying? I'm trying to be nice here. But yeah,

so does that matter when it comes to sports? I know. I don't think so. I mean, you know, especially with the way things are going,

we're just not hiring. Right, it's not like you can go hire someone more diverse. Exactly. You're not hiring anyone. go hire someone more diverse. Exactly. We've had, yeah, for sure, for sure. We've had many, I mean, certainly there's a lot of women working in the Toronto Sun as a whole. We had a, you know, around the 80s, we had Mary Worms.

We worked for us now doing a wonderful job, features at the Toronto Star. I don't remember. I guess I didn't remember she worked at the Sun. Oh, yeah. No, she started it. She was on a volleyball scholarship at Ohio State. She's a good Scarborough girl and married Paul Hunter

from my colleague on the Leaf Beat for many, many years. I've got to get Ormsby in here. Yeah. What's going on? Oh, yeah. No, no. Well, she was on the first

primetime show with, I think with Simmons and in the early years of The Fan, the first morning show, whatever. first primetime show with uh i think with simmons and uh and uh in the early years of the fan the first morning show whatever morning show right right exactly yeah no they were oh if mike mike inglis was on that show he could have been yeah yeah oh there's a name from the past as well he's in miami now he does uh heat games yeah well you know what i i guess just just on that subject when um nhL expansion happened, a lot of American papers used that as a place to give their female writers a shot

because obviously the big thing then was that they weren't giving women enough of a chance on a major beat. And so many women started around who are still there or have done some wonderful things. I think Nancy Maripisi in Boston, Viv Bernstein in Hartford, Cindy Lambert in Detroit, Helene Elliott, who became the president

of the Professional Hockey Writers Association for a while and is in the Hall of Fame herself. It's another one that jumps to mind. Lisa Dillman on the West Coast as well. There's, you know, a lot of them took advantage of that chance. New jobs. Exactly.

Cammie Clark, I think, in Florida covered both the Panthers and the Anaheim Ducks, was able to move around and do that. And there's some great web writers out there now. I don't want to mention all of them because I'd probably slight two or three, but a strong presence, certainly. For sure, for sure. Do you have any thoughts on new models for journalism in sports? For example, the athletic.

So a lot of, do you have any general thoughts on that? Certainly they have, you know, they've changed the playing field. They have a massive staff. Like, you know, it sort of reminds me of the Sun in the early days when George Gross and I haven't mentioned Wayne Parrish yet. Wayne went out and hired guys like Mike and a lot of our desk guys who are still there and really looked outside the box,

structured stories differently, went deeper into whatever, you know, stories on trainers, stories on somebody's father, you know, this guy's certainly the way that the game is going. It's much more content as far as that's involved. And I think through strength in numbers, they've certainly filled in the hole as papers like The Globe cut back on their sports. And The Athletic is very strong all over the place, but they're not the first people to have thought outside the box. I think newspapers are still valuable.

Certainly here in Toronto, that's part of the job I have or the duty I think I have. I do a lot of historical stuff on the Leafs. So there's that market as well that has to be filled in. But it's a different playing field with the athletic there. And I think at the end of the day, readers are better for it. And maybe

somebody's making some money at the end of it. I don't know. Well, I guess the big question is, is that sustainable? Because that headcount is pretty large. And assuming they're not working for Peanuts, everybody, some of those big names names too uh yeah i guess it all depends on how sustainable is that model and we're gonna find out yeah it's glad somebody's trying it oh yeah you know what yeah journalists oh for sure for sure i mean you know i if you if you follow some of their guys like uh like james myrtle he's he's putting out a lot of uh positive uh what their membership and their circulation is. Certainly, they're getting a lot. And you know what?

The times have changed. There's a young 21st century millennium model for them that like that kind of thing. They didn't grow up on newspapers. It's funny. I still find it funny sometimes. Well, if you gave them a newspaper, they wouldn't know where to hold it upside down or what. So it's quite interesting that they've come on and have tried some new things. And again, you know, I think readers are better for it.

I think when you get something like the Leafs maybe going two or three rounds at some point, whatever it is, everybody's going to be Could you imagine going one round? They're just going to be lapping up all that coverage and it'll be interesting. It'll be like a relaunch of the old newspaper war for sure. One round, of course. I mean two rounds,

of course. I can't imagine. I did three. I guess I've done two before that, but not for a long time. They've only, I guess, 2003 or 2004 was the last time that they won a round. We lost to the Flyers in the second round. Right, right. After beating the Sens in seven, I want to say. Yeah, yeah.

Well, that was one of the, yeah. Bell for us. Yeah, yeah. I guess for a whole generation of Leaf fans, I'm actually looking at them saying what their great moment was, and that was beating Ottawa three times in the playoffs. Four times. Four times, I'm sorry.

Come on, get that right there. Yeah, Patrick Lilleen between the pipes. We all remember that. Oh, yeah. Now, at Toronto Sun, can you compare and contrast maybe culturally in any other way you wish? But you had the Toronto Sun and the little paper that grew, and then now it's part of Post Media.

So since Post Media took over, because you physically moved offices, right? Not that you spent a lot of time there. No, not anymore. It's very much, you know, we were there a good eight, nine hours watching the three, you know, watching the three editions roll off at 11, at one, at two.

And, you know, who knows, sometimes the globe of the stars, like everybody delivered each other's papers around nine or 10. So you'd be looking to see what they had or what they didn't have with the, you know, what you had and what they. So you'd be hanging around sometimes between 10 and 11, you know, filling in something that they had broken or vice versa. So you don't see that certainly anymore. You do that on Twitter now. No, exactly. Yes, yes. Yeah, but you certainly, you know, more of I see.

There was a time when you didn't mention the star of the globe at all, but now everyone's, you know, maybe just because they're trying to make sure that they mention another newspaper had this, not a website or not a, not a, not a blogger or anything like that. You're, you know, there's a, there's some pride, I guess, in at least keeping it within the, within the journalism business. But no, we were at 333 King for, for many years, 75 till about four or five years ago. And now we're in the National Post building.

And it's very different. You go in And it's, it's very different. You go in and it's, it's a very sedate, you know, there's no, you know, used to have clippings all over the wall and, you know,

messy fridges and all that kind of thing. There's hardly, you know, there's hardly anyone there because maybe at night when the deskers come in, but there's no, you know, there's no, the clack,

clack, clack, there's no police radios. That's what I miss from the Sundays, the police radios, you know, the people yelling at each other and that kind of thing. I envision like an editor with a cigar in his mouth.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was very, yeah, it was very daily planet in those days. Yeah, I can hear the typewriters or the ticker tape and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do miss those days. That's funny. Okay, now let me think. Okay, so let's get you to your illustrious career as an author.

Now, beyond the newspapers, because you... My first question is, first of all, you don't have to answer this, but do you make any money writing books? Like in Canada, can you make a penny or two writing books? Well, you know what? First of all, as soon as you said illustrious, I rolled my eyes because, you know, what can I say?

The guys, Robson in Vancouver, Dan Robson's done a few books. So I think he does well. Gare does well on his, but those are, you know, those are planned out projects. I'm not even sure Gare did well on his.

I think he had to license it to a television series to do well on it. Well, you know what? Yeah, you know what? I'll speak for myself. No, I'm not going to be able to retire on my book wings. But you know what?

I think it was Steve who actually told me. I think he wrote a book on Lanny McDonald. I think it was McDonald or Brett Hall. It was probably Lanny McDonald that he used one, Warren B. right off the bat because I hadn't written one at that point. He said, you're not going to make any money.

In many ways, it's a vanity project, but it's, you know, it's something that's in the back of your mind. You want to get it out there. You know it'll be a good story. You know it'll,

you know, you know it'll, it'll interest readers. You know it'll be there as a lasting testimony to that kind of thing. So, yeah. And if you make a little money on the side, great. But you're not going to get rich. Okay, let me throw this idea at you.

Let's say you've got a book in you about, I don't know, I'm going to randomly pick on somebody. Let's say Kadri, okay? Let's say you have a book on Nazem Kadri. Don't do it now because he's an avalanche pretend maybe it's a bad example but you got a book in you on nasm cadry now yes back in the day back in the day like you would write a you would do that exactly a bit of a vanity project a reason to kind of maybe make media appearances and talk about your your personal brand there's a whole bunch of probable benefits for having a book exactly it makes you seem smart you can write whole bunch of probable benefits for having a book.

Exactly. It makes you seem smart. You can write a book. Like, not everyone can write a book. Well, yeah, you know what? It's, you know, those certainly weigh in. But first of all, you've got to find a publisher. And even now, people are self-publishing.

There's a guy named Jim Amodio who wrote a great book on Bob Goldham. And that's going back a few years, obviously, for some people. Yeah, the name didn't even resonate with me. Well, Bob was a, uh, he was,

he was a Maple Leaf. He was a Red Wing, uh, I believe a cup winner with one of those teams, uh, served in the Canadian Armed Forces, was a big physical fitness guy. And,

uh, to my generation was Hockey Night in Canada's, uh, you know, he was, uh, the, you know,

he, he was the Don Cherry, very sedate, more sedate Don Cherry, but he was, he and Dave Hodge or Ward Cornell were, uh, you know, he was, uh, the, you know, he, he was the Don Cherry, very sedate, more sedate Don Cherry, but he was, uh, he and Dave Hodge or Ward Cornell were, uh, you know, doing the intermissions and all that. And Bob had, uh, Bob had some great stories and Jim couldn't, uh, get that book, uh, picked up by anybody. So he self-published and it's, uh, it's turned out to be really good, but it goes back to my first thing is you have to find a publisher who's, and right now they want, really good, but it goes back to my first thing is you have to find a publisher who's, and right now they want, uh, you know, they are very, um, uh, stringent on, you know, will it sell in this

market? Uh, you know, can we sell it in the States? Uh, will it be big in Western Canada? When will it come out? Will it, uh, it's gotta be for Christmas, right? Exactly. So there's been some projects I've done that had to be either pushed way back. Um, I think the, um, the last one I did, oh, I know, it was not Toronto and the Maple Leafs, which was my last book, but I think it was a book called A Cup of Coffee,

which was about very obscure leaves. I did it with Greg Abel, who was the 40-year photographer in the Maple Leafs. And Greg had all these wonderful headshots that he owned the rights to because Harold Ballard, and he never agreed to a contract.

One of the happier things that resulted from all the dysfunction at Maple Leaf Gardens. So we had this really good book by ECW, but one of their guys came to me and said, this is probably around the end of the FNUF Kessel year, and said, right now the Leaf brand is poison. So we're going to wait to put this out for another year. Wait for the Shanna plan. Wait for the Shanna plan.

Wait for the Shanna plan. And it did turn out to be good. So anyway, I'm just telling you that for illustration on sometimes a thought process that goes into that. And they got to know how much they're going to say, how much they'll make because they have to make a profit too. It doesn't matter. You know, they're not in business to make you a rich man. Okay. Now, here's where I'm going with this.

Mike, get there. Come on. We know it's early for you, but come on. So you could write a book, and that's what you would do. And you mentioned a lot of the challenges there, and at the end of the day, it's not very lucrative. But what if in 2019, wouldn't it make more sense instead of doing that, what if you put together a,

I don't know, a 12-part or 10 10 part podcast series on nasm cadre okay like and so instead of this being a book back in the day this is a well-structured edited uh packaged uh maybe you release it every thursday during the least aren't there ebooks for that but i hate to shoot you down there but that's no this is what i shoot me down all you like this is fantastic a little discourse like this but uh but eBooks are not podcasts. Like the whole idea nowadays is everybody is subscribing and any technically savvy person

probably has several that they subscribe to and they get notifications and they cherry pick which they listen to. Oh, for podcasts, yeah. Podcasts, right. So you would syndicate it, I guess is the word I'm trying to say, in a subscription model for podcasts.

So again, obviously the podcast subscription is free, obviously, through iTunes, whatever. But this is now the Lance Nazem Kadri miniseries that Leaf fans can subscribe to. And every Thursday, for example, every Thursday morning the next episode drops. I feel like that for branding

and you get the same benefits except you can really self-publish much easier, I would say, than with a book. I must throw in it out there that to me,

the podcast would be the new book. Yeah, well, you know what? You've given me a good idea for a sunset project, I think. Well, come to me when you're ready

because I do that. Okay, okay. All right. You'll have to let me know your profit margin on things like that. Long way to go there, but that's what I always wondered for these types of projects. Make it a podcast instead of a book. But okay, books are great too. Now, If These Walls Could Talk. That sounds like a title that can be applied to many things, of course. Well, that's the next one coming out. That's with Triumph Books in Chicago.

And you've probably seen the other books in the series that the company Triumph has put out. You've seen it with the Dallas Cowboys, the Green Bay Packers, the Boston Celtics. Did Ken Daniels do that with the Red Wings? He did it with the Red Wings. Because he came over and talked about it and it was great now the difference

with me is that all those previous teams I mentioned are all champions of one form or another so when they sat down with me

I said well you do know that the Maple Leafs have not won the cup in 50 years so how do you you know I'm very short

on you know stories about how Dion Phaneuf took the Stanley Cup and jumped into Phil Kessel's pool with it. I don't have any of that, just so you know. So what happened there was I said, okay, no problem. The Leafs are a pretty famous franchise on their own. They're 100 years old this year.

So anyway, If These Walls Could Talk is a collection of dressing room, travel, you know, my own recollections and talking to other people, a nice forward on it by Mark Osborne, the former Leafs. So I think people enjoy it. There's some pretty good stories there about, you know, the Leafs being Leafs, the Leafs being, you know, the human element. They're about the Leafs being Leafs, the Leafs being the human element. It sounds to me like it would be an ideal gift for the Leafs fan in your life for Christmas or the holiday season. Oh, yeah. Or if the Leafs are listening, they can buy one for every season ticket holder. That would make everybody happy.

Do you want to share one or two stories from the book or have you read it yet? I'm just trying. Well, actually, I will since you're nice enough to give me the plug for that one. Of course, of course. I'm working on a new book. I would enjoy this book.

Have you had Mike Wilson on yet? The Ultimate Leaf Fan? Oh, The Ultimate Leaf Fan. No, I met him at a Hebsey book launch though. Yes, yes. Mike and I are also working on a project. Mike just completed last year seeing all 82 Leaf games,

home and away. No one's ever done that before. And visiting all the cities, not just the rinks where they are, where you've got a different thing, but just visiting with all the Leaf fans. You've seen them on TV all the time. And as far away as Anaheim and as close as Buffalo. Where are all these Leaf fans coming from? Are they from Toronto? Are they from Anaheim?

Are they transplants? Do they drive there? Not only does he get into detail about that and follow the Leaf season, but he also goes to each city. The Islanders from Brooklyn visits Ebbets Field. He visited some of the oldest arenas

in the NHL. He talked to fellow historians. He's met people like the first responders to the synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, because at least we're there right after. That's another project we're

working on. Is that a 2020? That'll be out around playoff time. Playoff time. Okay. I will have the Ultimate Leaf fan. I'll get him on this show when that book comes out. That'll make complete sense for sure especially because he's a friend of a friend

because he's buds with Mark Hebsters oh yeah it was quite a feat now of course Mike before that had world's largest collection of leaf memorabilia 2000 pieces you should have seen his basement it's gone now he's had to move out.

The collection, by the way, was purchased by the Canadian Museum of Natural History and is now in Ottawa in various bits and pieces. And now he's spending some of that money on this North American tour of leaf. Well, you know what? All credit for him for finishing it because he was with us every day. I only do about half of the road games for the Leafs. He did every one of them. And, you know, he traveled just as much, I guess.

He, Joe Bowen, and Jim Ralph would have been the only three people to see. Non-player people to have seen every Leaf game last year. So that's 2020. And the If These Walls Could Talk is 2019. Yes, it's going to be out October 1st. And that And the, if these walls could talk is nine, 2019. Yes. It's going to be out October 1st. And that's the, again,

I once made, I once, I don't know if it was Steven Brunt. I can't remember, but I once made the mistake of saying something to the effect of a great gift for your son or father or something. And I was rightly chastised that, did you know a woman could be fans of hockey as well?

Like I, honestly, I was like like I heard myself back when someone pointed it out. I think Levi Fumka mentioned it but this would be, I'm going to just say this. Don't even buy it for your dad. Buy this book for your mom. Well you know what, one of the stories in If These Walls Could Talk was

the night that the Toronto chapter of the Writers Association had to rush the dressing room at the Gardens because at the time, Harold Ballard did not allow female reporters. So Scott Morrison, who was head of the PHWA at that time, rightly made a big stink

about it with the league, saying it should be equal access. So Ballard took, this couldn't have been Ballard's idea, one of his lawyers came up with it. He said, okay, equal access means nobody gets in. So forard took, this couldn't have been Ballard's idea. One of his lawyers came up with it. He said, okay, equal access means nobody gets in. So for half a season, nobody got into the dressing room because it was in the least equal access. So the league wasn't doing anything.

So one night we just, you know, we waited the obligatory 10 minutes and about 20 media people just knocked open the doors of the Leaf room and went in and just started talking to people, did our jobs and got out. And Ballard went nuts.

He was in a wheelchair at the time, but he had his attendant speed him through the halls of the gardens, waving his cane. I can see it now. It's a wonderful life. Yeah, that's right. He hit a globe photographer with his cane. And Jerry McNamara said, he, you know, he's, he,

he said it was a one night he regretted he was somewhere else in the building because if he'd known the media was down there, he said he thought he had justification to take a swing at two or three of his, uh, his big critics. But, uh, yeah, it was quite something. I remember the lead in Canadian press the next day was guerrilla warfare broke out last night at Maple Leaf gardens. I'm telling you, man, I would personally, for me, I could just read

and hear a story after Harold Ballard's story after Harold Ballard's story. He's got his own chapter in the book, obviously. One of the first time I ever met him, it was his 80th birthday, and somebody, I think Art Eggleton was the mayor, I think, threw a big party for him, and I came up to him.

I was sort of intimidated, but I said, Mr. Ballard, how does someone like you live to be 80 years old? Because you've already done all these other crazy things. And he said, nice broads and anything adverse to what a human being should do. That was always a quote that stuck with me as far as he was concerned. But I'm sure you had, I think, did you mention you had one of the Stelics on and they told you some good stories? Gord, Gord Stelic came on and-

He's written, he's written a book. When people say you should write a book, he and Jim O'Leary at our paper did a really good job. Heartaches and Howl, I believe the name of the book was. Well, the Gord Stelic, basically where I just wanted him to talk

about Ballard for two hours is like the first in a series. I feel like that needs to break off into a spinoff series, like Stellick on Ballard, just incredible stuff. yes, yes, no,

that was, and I was fortunate to be around the gardens at that time, uh, to, uh, to be, uh, you know,

to not participate in them, so to speak, but just to document some of them and to be, uh, you know, to be around. It was, uh,

it was a great time to, uh, to cover the Maple Leafs. So you obviously write these books and we talked about the 2020 book and the 2019 book. Like how, are these yearly events? Like is there a Leaf book coming out of your hand? No, I've either written or co-written or edited about 10

going back to a couple of books I did on Maple Leaf Gardens, a couple with Greg Abel. One was with Greg Abel who had all these great shots again of all these characters around Maple Leaf Gardens, a couple with Greg Abel. One was with Greg Abel who had all these great shots again of all these characters around Maple Leaf Gardens. I know you might not recognize them because you're not a younger person in Toronto, not raised here, but people will recognize the pops. Oh, you did? Okay.

Because I was at Michael Power. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. No, I just did a vacation in a bank. Okay. How about, do you remember Pops, the ice cream seller, and the guy, Sam, the guy who used to drive the Zamboni, and all those, you know. I definitely got to, I used to get to at least one game in the Grays every year. This was like a big deal to me.

I still remember the wafting smell of marijuana. So you saw some concerts there. I never saw a concert at Maple Leaf Gardens, which even shocks me to hear me say it. Yeah, I didn't go to many. I saw Blondie there, actually.

That was one. And I got to hang around a couple of, you know, the Leafs were, whatever, something was going on with the team that I had to hang around and see. But I remember talking

to Jim Gregory. He was there the night the Beatles played for the first time. He was with the Marlies at the time. And they played two in that day or something, didn't they? Well, they came three times.

One was they played two because Ballard told Brian Epstein, he said, you know you're playing two concerts, and the Beatles thought they were going to play one. And Epstein went nuts, and Ballard said, okay, you go out in front of the microphone, you tell those 16,000 screaming girls that they're only playing one concert. Oh my God. And the Beatles at that point didn't care

because nobody could hear the lyrics anyway. Right. Yeah. Well, that's what I also heard is that the, yeah, you couldn't hear, yeah, the audio wasn't particularly good. No, well, the Paul Morris, a friend of mine. Well, scored by number 17, Wendell Clark.

I'm making it sound like we're good buddies, but I interviewed him a couple of times and he helped me with a couple of books, but he took me up to, in the old days, to where he was the sound engineer. That was his day job, aside from being an announcer. And I saw these dusty microphones on a shelf and they looked like something out of War of the Worlds,

1930s radio. And I said, oh, what are these? He says, oh, as a matter of fact, those are the microphones the Beatles used when they were here in 64. Oh, wow. What? And then he said, not only that, he said they were the only microphones we had. So when the Beatles went offstage, I had to run down, disconnect them,

and put them in the hot stove lounge because those were the same microphones they used for their press conference afterwards. That's amazing. That, put that in the Ballard book there. Okay. So, cool. afterwards that's amazing that the deck put that in the uh the ballard book there okay so um cool now um oh what was i you triggered something i was gonna ask about with uh oh yeah so i don't know about you but like for me when i still sometimes pretend i'm calling doing like a pa

announcing or whatever like i don't do i know mike ross has just been renewed or whatever yes and i know andy frost had a number of great years uh doing it but i still when i do it i still do paul morris oh everyone does paul morris but on the j side it's and then and i all do respect he's doing a great job but i mean the guy who does it now who's been on the show but uh murray eldon so those are the two guys murray eldon and well the guy now to me the guy and i don't know him i apologize but uh the guy they have now i think they picked him because he sounded like murray eldon to me that's still murray eldon yeah yeah and he's still saying like he's letting me know uh willie upshaw is playing for his base and jesse barfield yeah yeah still in right field

yeah tony fernandez yes drive safely murray eldon speaking i remember that uh heading off but so when was the last time you talked to paul morris saw him at Johnny Bauer's funeral with the service that they had. I shouldn't say the funeral itself, but the service they had at the gardens. And how's he doing? I mean, we don't. Oh, yeah. I think he's in his early 80s. I think he.

Yeah. You know, he's, you know, he's he he was OK. I think he was in a wheelchair, but still with it. How's the voice, I guess? Oh, it's still there. We often said what we were going to do was have him record, in the days when phone messages from celebrities were big, we were going to have him say, you know,

you've reached the Hornby household. Keon from Pulford and on time at the goal, et cetera, et cetera. Because I know Sportsnet did a whole ad about Jerry Howarth doing exactly that. Yeah. Doing phone messages. Yeah. For sure. Now, you have a magazine out here.

Only for reference. To remember who's on the Leafs. Yes. In case I asked you. You thought I'd ask you some tough Leaf questions. No, I'm happy to say, can I close the magazine now? Are we done with that? The only question is, you need to tell us all right now

when is Mitch Marner going to sign? That's all we need to know and then we can shut this down. Well, you know, I'm thinking it's going to go to at least October 2nd. You know, I can't see the sides moving at all if they haven't moved already

this summer. That's October 2nd triggers at least plan B to free up the Clarkson and Horton money. And we don't even know if that's going to be enough. It may require one more deal to, you know, one more salary to move. And that's why some people are thinking that Jake Gardner may ultimately be the guy who comes back for a surprise appearance. But yeah, it's going to happen. Just tell me it's not going to be to December 1st like Nylander.

Because I had to go away. My ball hockey team has a gig with Rowe Park Ball Hockey League senior men's team. We have a gig down in the Caribbean we go to every year. And I was frightened to death there was going to be some sort of... men's team we have a gig down in the uh down in the caribbean we go to every year and that uh i was frightened to death there was going to be a some sort of william melander thing that was going to ruin that but he signed at just the right moment maybe uh i said that was the last question but maybe this is the last question uh any predictions for how the leafs do in this upcoming season well i can see them getting uh 100 points again just based on the talent that they have but

people aren't going to care and maybe that's one good thing about how the landscape has changed here in the last two or three years that people are already thinking of the spring unlike two or three years ago where they were saying oh my god you know can they possibly get uh to you know to the late can they possibly keep the playoff race alive until February or March? I think they'll do well, but, you know, I think for Mike Babcock's sake, he needs to get the right playoff matchup this year and get out of the first round.

But, I mean, Tampa Bay and Boston are still there. Like, I don't know how, you don't get an easy first rounder if you're the late friend. I know. I've given up thinking about that because Tampa Bay went out and all those other, Calgary went out and, you know, just,

parody. You know, exactly. That's a simple answer to all the other stuff. If the Leafs do not win a round, is Babcock gone? I think you can't. Is your crystal ball safe?

I think there'll be, yeah. I think there can't be, at that point, you know, he'd be here five years. I mean, they're not going to mind cashing him out

those last three years. I think there would be a hue and cry that he, you know, unless there's exten and cry that he, you know, unless there's extenuating circumstances, unless, you know, they play that first round, they lose in seven, they didn't have Matthews because he was hurt, you know, Marner never signed,

you know, he's playing over with the Zurich Lions or something. That would be the only way I would see that happening. You know, Spezza's a leaf. Did you know that, Jason Speason spezza i did does that have something to do with the song or no i don't know i just uh remembered that i totally forgot that and i just remembered that but he's down there he's looking good he's uh he's uh he's really embracing this chance to uh to to be a mentor and he said he once said he was gonna he'd play again if he could play for free and at at 700 he's uh he's not far from playing for that. That's right.

That's as close as it gets. Down from about four or five million, whatever he was making in Dallas. Do people ever call you Lance Hornsby, like Bruce Hornsby? Many times, yes. No S in there. I used to call my brother Rogers Hornsby

because he played baseball too, and of course, that's going way, way back. No, he's a legend though. Yeah. That's a name you know. Bruce Hornsby was one, so at some point you just give up and don't correct

them thanks for doing this man that was great okay yeah thanks for having me on appreciate that and make sure you get that in the fridge there you're gonna have that tonight yeah and pick up one of those books that you were so kindly to mention for me and these walls could talk the Maple Leafs edition no colored

photos of Leafs hoisting Stanley Cups. Like a doctor show, I guess. Well, Photoshop Morgan Riley lifting the cup there for us. And that brings us to the end of our 502nd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike.

Lance, you're at Sun Hornby? Yes, sir. Thanks a lot. Don't call him Hornsby. That guy is with the range. Bruce Hornsby in the range. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. I want you all to come out on September 19th. Propertyinthesix.com is at Raptor's Devotee.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. And Capadia LLP is at Capadia LLP. See you Friday when my guest, I went from Lance to Lorne. Lorne Honickman. I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't speed a day. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away.

Because everything is rosy.