Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Larry Millson: Toronto Mike'd #1231

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

In this 1231st episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with longtime Globe & Mail scribe and Toronto Blue Jays beat writer Larry Millson about his visits to Maple Leaf Stadium, his years at the Hamilton Spectator, Toronto Star, Toronto Telegram and Globe & Mail, and the many Blue Jays teams he covered. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, the Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris, The Moment Lab, Ridley Funeral Home and Electronic Products Recycling Association.

Welcome to episode 1231 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. A fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta

in Mississauga and Oakville. Season four of Yes, We Are Open, the award-winning podcast from Moneris. Electronic Products Recycling Association. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. The Moment Lab. Brand marketing and strategy, PR, advertising and production.

You need The Moment Lab and Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, a man who has seen more Blue Jay games than any other Toronto scribe, so says Bob Elliott, Larry Milson. Welcome, Larry. Oh, good to be here. Is Bob right, Bob? Says to me, straight out, he says,

Larry has seen the Blue Jays more often than any other Toronto scribe. True or false, Larry? I think that's probably true because there are some seasons I basically did 162 games and I started out in 1980 doing the Blue Jays.

I saw a few as a spectator before then. I'm sure that told us how I'm afraid to count it up. That's quite the claim though. I'm thinking now of Dave Perkins. I'm just thinking of some of the long time scribes. Dave, who I was hanging out with last week,

by the way, but we'll get to that. Yeah, Dave's an old friend of mine. We used to be neighbors. Okay. And we also worked at the Globe. Both kind of a little bit of cynical. We used to take on the Leafs fans. He was on the desk, and I was a reporter,

but I'd fill in on the desk once in a while, and they didn't like us very much. So last week, and I'll probably reference it a few times, because it just happened on, I want to say Thursday night. So just last Thursday night, I was with Dave Perkins. And he says to me, he says, call me anytime. And I said, careful, Dave, like I might do that. And he goes, seriously, like he's like, call me anytime.

So now I'm envisioning an episode with Bob Elliott, Dave Perkins, and Larry Milson on the three mics just talking about covering the Blue Jays. That would be fun. You know what? I can make that happen. Let's do it. I'm going to do it. Okay, we're going to do this.

We'll do it. I'll do it. All right, that's it. Done. Well, Dave said anything. Yeah, I just got to get Bob Elliott. He spends some time in the Maritimes now. I think he's got grandkids in Moncton, I think.

I've just been chatting with Bob via email up until last night. I was just joking about, do you think Chris Bassett needs another pitch? And Bob says, well, I heard he has eight of them. That was quite the Toronto Blue Jay debut. For a little while, he had no ERA because he had allowed, I don't know, three or four runs without getting an out. Yeah. We need an out.

Yeah, we need an out to get an ERA on this guy. But hopefully it gets better from there. I think it will. I think that's the nature of the game. I mean, that's his worst game I guess he's ever had. But I'm sure coming to a new team and et cetera, et cetera. And I think St. Louis is a really good hitting team. Right.

And maybe when you have so many pitches that maybe you need to narrow it down a little bit sometimes. You know, go with what's working that day. He was getting his pitches. I know you threw a changeup for his first pitch of the game, but you got it high. If you threw a high change up to a decent hitter, it's gone. And even to a bad, they always say, don't throw a change up to a bad hitter. I don't even think you should start a batter with a change up because the whole idea of a change up is that you've thrown some velocity and now you throw something.

You want to speed a guy's bat up, I think, and and then you know and then then get him to go for it because my fastball is like a change up right so it's like you know here's my heat and it's like boom okay that's about all i ever could hit was change up because it was a bad hit right but only if it was the only pitch that the pitcher had okay so larry we have a lot of ground to cover uh a lot of people wrote in when they heard you were coming on brian Gerstein writes in. He says, Larry was in the Blue Jays press box for five of the club's division titles in both World Series triumphs.

And he has likely written more articles about the club than any other reporter. He says, he reminds us, and congratulations, that you won the 2016 Jack Graney Award. So he was curious. he reminds us and congratulations that you won the 2016 Jack Graney award. Yeah. So he was curious, firstly, do you have any idea of how many articles you've had published,

uh, in the Globe and Mail about the Blue Jays? Like, do you have, you don't have any concept of the number, do you? Uh, no. Um,

I know I would lead the, um, whole newspaper and byline some years. Um, but I did other sports too, and I'm still doing them. I'm still covering the Blue Jays. Okay, who do you cover the Blue Jays for right now? I work for field-level media now.

I left the Globe in 2009 and never stopped working. I worked for MLB.com, Canadian Press. I covered a lot of games for Canadian Press, Blue Jays games, and a lot of other sports. Then in 2013, I went to the Sports Exchange, which we had to cover every home game of the Blue Jays, Raptors, and Maple Leafs. And then that went kaput in December 31st, 2017. And now, but out of that sprung field level media. Okay.

Which I still do, I think I did 92 Blue Jays games for them last year. Wow. So, yeah, I'm doing, so I'm still doing, take the three teams, I bet you I do 180 game stories a year. Half of them would be on the Blue Jays. Any plans to retire? Like is there no point in retiring when your job is covering sports? Is that the deal?

Like Larry, would you ever consider retirement? Retire, what's that? How do you spell that? So that's a no. I don't want you to retire. No, I'm only 80, what's that? How do you spell that? So that's a no. I don't want you to retire. No, I'm only 80. What the heck? You're 80 years old.

Yeah. Okay. I was going to say. And somebody still hires me. How do you like that? Okay, so no ageism in sports media in this country, as far as you're concerned. No ageism. No.

Just maybe sometimes younger people roll your eyes when you tell them something but sometimes it turns out to be right do you ever get like an okay boomer is that the reaction you get no no i'm a little older than a boomer i think yeah okay yeah i'm doing the math in my head so if it's post-world war ii it means you're gonna be born in 45 no no i was born in 43 okay then you are uh that would be the uh greatest generation i think so i think we were okay you're going to be born in 45. No, no, I was born in 43. Okay, then you are, that would be the greatest generation. I think so. I think we were. Okay, you're the greatest.

I just had this chat with a gentleman over. The greatest generation. That's funny. Congrats to you for remaining active into your 80s. That's awesome. But, you know, Richard Flohill was here the other day. Yeah, you know what? I actually worked with him.

Did you? You know what? I worked with him once, and I was going to Ryerson. And I also knew his sister. His sister worked at the same place I did. So anyway, when I was going to Ryerson, the first time I met Richard was at a furniture show, I think. It was some kind of a show like that. Yeah.

And so being a journalism student, I decided to practice journalism because we were putting out a daily like that. Yeah. And so being a journalism student, I decided to practice journalism because we were putting out a daily newspaper for this show. And so I wrote a story that said, it wasn't positive. It sort of raised questions. I don't know, you know, the guys were saying, well, I don't know how this is going to work out

and all that sort of stuff, which is not what they wanted. And poor Richard, he got it from the guy who was running the thing. And he had us all up there and we got, we were vilified pretty well and he kept calling Richard an idiot. So we had to write a story the next day saying, everything's perfect. This show, this is going to be great. So yeah, I know him from way back.

Oh, that's wild. Okay, because, yeah, he was pretty, I don't know, maybe that was three weeks ago. I've lost track of time. But, yeah, 89 years young and still going. Good for him. Good for you. Now, Mark Hebbshire writes in just one word, legend. Okay, Larry, how do you feel being called a legend by a legend, Mark Hebbshire? I don't know.

No, I mean, it's... That's for things that other people to say, you know? I just keep going, that's all. All right, question came in just this morning from Gare Joyce. Gare Joyce is going to be here tomorrow. You know Gare, right? Oh, yeah, really well. From the Globe.

Gare was at the Globe, right? He was here tomorrow. Oh. You know Gare, right? Oh, yeah, really well. From the Globe. Gare was at the Globe, right? He was at the Globe at the same time we were here. So he says, ask Larry about Terry Hansi. I hope I said the last. That's right. Yeah, okay.

So Terry Hansi. They always did spring trainings together. Take a moment and Gare would love it if you could talk a moment about Terry Hansi. Well, Terry and I

were good friends and he would, he would, would love it if you could talk a moment about Terry Hansi. Well, Terry and I were good friends. And I would let him stay at the Globe and Mail condominium. We'd rent a condominium. But then, because I don't have a driver's license, he would do the driving. So it was a trade-off, right? And so we'd go to every game at spring training. We went to every game, not just the home games.

And he is a terrific photographer, and he was doing it. A lot of his work was for the team program that he was obviously doing at spring training. And, yeah, we had some pretty long drives, including flat tires. One flat tire, I remember, right on the, going to Lakeland there. And, anyway, that worked out okay. So Terry was pretty handy with that. And we always, I remember with Terry, we always had to park close because he had all this camera equipment to look, you know.

And then we also had some good times at Eddie's, which was kind of our local hangout in Dunedin. equipment to look you know and then we also had some good times at eddie's which is the uh was the kind of the our local hangout in dunedin it's a great was a great bar when it was um just normal people right now they've tried to on their new ownership you know they always try to upgrade and upgrade stuff and it's not now they're not normal people yeah not necessarily just people who think they're trendy normal people. They're trying to get rich people? No, not necessarily. Just people who think they're trendy somehow. Not all of them, but it's just

a little too fancy now. I don't feel comfortable in fancy bars. But I used to shoot the hoops there. Terry would be at the bar and I'd be shooting the pop-a-shot game, putting up records, and if you got a certain score, they give you a free beer

right right so i kept hitting the score and getting a free beer so the next day the total that you had to reach would go up and i got to know the the owner really well eddie and um so anyway we he finally gave up on that because I got pretty good at that game. I actually challenged quite a, this is supposed to be about Terry, but he was at the bar while I was doing this, and I played that pop-a-shot game with people like David Wells.

Oh, wow, Boomer. Kelly Gruber. Wow. Lots of people. I remember once I had beat those guys. Mark Eichhorn could shoot with either hand. And we came to a standoff. He could shoot with either hand equally.

He did that when he was a good basketball player at junior college. And he was totally ambidextrous. He could probably have pitched left hand. Wow. And so I remember once Boomer got a little frustrated because he wasn't beating me. So I remember once Boomer got a little frustrated because he wasn't beating me. And so he missed one of the balls, and he threw it against the rim, and it bounced. So it bounced, and I could see people's valuable beers maybe getting knocked over, right?

Right. So I go and dove for it to make sure the ball didn't get too far into the table area. And I came back and boomers, I bet you never seen a guy die for a ball and pop a shot. So it sounds like with that game, you know, you could get a free beer. So you're a man, you like free beer, right? I did. Yeah, not in the last 20 years or so. Oh, not in the last 20 years.

But that might be part of the legend. Yeah, I did consume a few. Okay. Can I send you home today with some free beer? Could I do that? Sure. Okay. So thank you, Great Lakes Beer.

They sent over some fresh craft beer for you, Larry. Thank you, Great Lakes. And you're going to go home with some fresh craft beer. Now, coincidentally, I was at, they have a location here in southern Etobicoke that I frequent. But they also have a new brew pub. It's at Jarvis and Queens Quay. And I was biking there just today because I'm going to record live from there next Thursday.

So I'm doing this ride on the waterfront trail, which means I'm passing like Lakeshore and Stadium Road, they call it. It's really close to Bathurst. And they have the condo tower that has the Tip Top Taylor sign on it, where the Tip Top Tay Taylor's used to be. And guess what I start thinking about? I start thinking about a place I've never been to, the stadium where the Toronto Maple Leafs played.

Okay, Maple Leafs Stadium. Tell me about your relationship with Maple Leafs Stadium and the Toronto Maple Leafs that played there. I probably went to my first game when I was seven years old with my dad. And I remember the first game, they didn't play very well. And my father yelling out, you bunch of clowns.

But I went to games a lot. And eventually I ended up selling programs there. And I could have sold a lot more programs if I had the outside the stadium as the people are coming in. Right. I could have sold a lot more programs, but that's not what I wanted.

I took inside. That way I could watch the game. And they would never let me come back into the room and cash out until I had sold all the programs. I'm sure by about the sixth or seventh inning, because, you know, people are going to buy it outside, right? I think I'm sure some people bought that program either to shut me up or out of sympathy.

But I did that for a while. And at the last home game, we didn't know that at the time, in 67, I caught a ball, a foul ball. Awesome. It hit one of the beams there and bounced right back, and I put up, it was cold, I put up my hand and got it. And you know what? Of course, not thinking that it should be a treasure. Of course, we went out for a few beers after the game. My friend, well, friend of mine, Paul Vickers and I

were playing catch with the ball on Yonge Street. Right, right, right. And then I put it in my glove, which I'd oiled, so all of a sudden I realized that I still have the ball, but I'm not sure which one it is because I've got a lot of Sumeter baseballs. But it would have been nice to have International League if I could still see it. Right. I think Shaughnessy was the commissioner, president.

So can you remember, I'm a guy who never got to go to Maple Leaf Stadium. I've seen photos and some footage. It looks really cool. Terrific ball. Tell me what you can about Maple Leaf Stadium. And've seen photos and some footage. It looks really cool. Terrific ballpark. Tell me what you can about Maple Leaf Stadium. And then you got to see Sparky Anderson there, right? Because he was managing the Leafs. Yeah.

And I got to know him too. It was like what you expect, the romantic picture of a ballpark. The closest I've seen since, like, you know, since we've, since Toronto had a major league team, was I went to the Dominican, and I went to a stadium there that was very much like it. It was short down the right field line, but it was 425 feet to center field.

Wow. But Rocky Nelson, who was the first baseman, he'd been with the Montreal Rose before that, and so had Sparky, actually. But he had that nice little pull swing, you know, lefty, and he popped a lot of home runs over that short porch there. I'll bet. And it was a really classic stadium.

And when it was built, it was considered, I think, state of the art, you know, in the 20s. It's what older people like me envision a baseball park as being. Not so much, it's like fancy bars. Well, we have fancy ballparks now, you know. And I know you need it. But this is what a real ballpark looked like. But that 425 foot to center field, and I remember, was it Mac Jones?

They're playing in the Little World Series. I've never seen, at that time, I'd never seen a ball hit that hard. It was a line drive. It went right off the center field wall and it got inside the park home run. But I'd never seen anybody be able to hit. You wouldn't believe the line drive it was.

Like it was, it wasn't, there was no arc to it at all. It didn't seem like. It just kept, obviously it didn't keep rising. Like a frozen rope? Yeah. And they had a center fielder that same year, 1960, I believe. Jackie Waters, who was just a tremendous defensive center fielder. And I remember once he ran in a ball, caught it, and kept running, stepped on second base

and got a double play because that guy thought for sure it was going to drop in and he was straight far from it. I also, Sparky, I remember him, I I remember it might have been his last game. I remember he took a dive for a ball when he was playing second base and injured his shoulder. Then he became manager maybe the next year. I remember one game with a doubleheader after the first game coming up. He took the line up for the second game,

and I remember he just kicked dirt all over the home plate because he was rather annoyed with the call that had gone against him in the first game. So he was thrown out. Did Sparky always have white hair? I need to know. Yes, yes. It seemed like, if I remember right, it was always, yeah. He was like, yeah, forever, yeah, sort of like a Steve Martin type thing. What a great guy. I mean, I remember when I was at Ryerson, I did a lot of stuff for CJRT,

which was the station there, you know, still the FM station. And we brought him in for an interview, and he was terrific. And then I went to Maple Leaf Stadium to go through their clippings because I was doing some sort of story. I'm still a student. Okay. And I know Sparky was in the next office to me, and I could hear him selling season's tickets and stuff like that.

But you knew the way it was going. That 60 team won by 17 games. They won the pennant by 17 games. They won the International League playoffs, but then they lost in the Little World Series, they called it, Junior World Series. Junior World Series. But from that time on, the attendance kind of seemed,

it dwindled, you know? I don't know whether people lost interest because they just ran going away, you know? Mel McGahee was the manager of that team, and he went on to manage the Cleveland Indians. So I have a lot of memories from that place. You know, taking my father there on Father's Day was good. That was a nice memory.

Nice. And actually being able to pay for it. And also I was able to get free tickets at times from, I knew somebody who knew some of the Bison's players, so I would get tickets and sit with their families, because being close, their families,

they have quite a few people from Buffalo who would be there. So that was when I was about 16. So I've seen numerous games there. I love that place. You know, even when I was studying for exams, I used to live in East York, and I used to take the Bloor streetcar to Bathurst

and the Bathurst streetcar down. But even when I was studying for exams, I'd read it on the streetcar, because it was a fairly long ride. And then, you know, sometimes between innings, I'd crack the book open again. But I always found a baseball park a restful place. I don't feel, now that I'm working at one,

I don't feel that it's worked. And I always found a baseball park somehow comforting. No, beautiful. I often wish I could go to Maple Leaf Stadium. It kind of ticks me off a little that they blew this thing up. Yeah, I have a picture of myself. I can't find it, but I will one day. I saw it a couple years ago, a picture of myself. And when I was at the Toronto Telegram, they took a little desk for me and a typewriter.

And we put it at the old home plate. This was after they destroyed the word. Right. Had flattened the place. And so here I am. I got a picture of me sitting at home plate at my typewriter. And I mean, so you mentioned you were born in the 40s, but when this team was birthed, this team was birthed before,

this is back when it was the Toronto St. Patrick's, right? So before the hockey team was called the Maple Leafs. So there was a Toronto Maple Leaf baseball team So there was a Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team before there was a hockey team called the Maple Leafs. Yeah, that's right. I believe that's right, yeah. I think a few years prior, I think, when I do my research here.

Is it true that you interviewed Casey Stengel? Yes, and Yogi Berra. Okay, I got to hear this stuff. Give me this story here. It's not much of a story, but I was working for the Hamilton Spectator, and I got an old friend of mine and dan proudfoot we roomed together so i was supposed to cover a baseball game that weekend you know it was either inner county league or halton county league one or the other

and i got dan to cover for me and i said i'm going to go to New York, and I'm going to go see the Mets. Right. And I'd done it before, actually, but this time I decided that I'd like to talk to Casey Stengel about a prospect named Dennis Rybant, who is a Canadian. Okay. And so I ended up getting a media credential for that, for one game. And here I was, I was chatting up with a couple of other players, and then I see Casey, and I went over to him and asked him about Dennis Rybant.

And he says, oh, I think you better ask our minor league people about that. You know, a real great interview. But we chatted a little bit. And then I saw Yogi, we chatted a little bit. And then I saw Yogi and we talked a little bit and Yogi said, Yogi says, I said, yeah, I came down by train. He says, well, you know, next time

kid, why don't you try the plane? It's a lot quicker. The wisdom of Yogi, right? I like it. What's his line? He goes, yeah, it's, oh, that place it's too busy. No one goes there anymore. It's too busy.

Or how about the pizza? You want it? Just better cut it in half. I don't think I can eat eight pieces. Oh, they're too good to be true. Oh, my goodness. Okay. It's deja vu all over again.

Now, this Hamilton Spectator gig that brought you to New York there, is that your first newspaper job? Yeah, I went to Hamilton Spectator as a summer student twice, and then they couldn't get a full-time position for me after I graduated, so I went to the St. Catherine Standard and I was there until I saved up too much money and really wanted to get back to Toronto.

So in 66, I quit. I did a lot of courts. I liked St. Catharines. I didn't do sports at all on St. Catharines. Okay. But I knew Jack Gatecliffe, the sports editor, a great guy. But I did a lot of courts

and managed to get a lot of people mad at me because I wrote stories about these rich people with their yachts and stuff like that. And I thought I'd put a humorous twist on them because these people get fined in court. It was kind of neat. And I don't think anybody else had reported on things like that when they covered the courts

because I was told by another reporter, I talked to so-and-so at this cocktail party and they said they're going to sue you. And there was nothing wrong with what I wrote. It was all factual. It's just magistrate's court, right? So I got kind of restless. I wanted to go back to Toronto, and so I did.

It became a racetrack bump, which I always wanted to do for about three months. Okay, but pause right there, Larry, because Garnett Barnsdale, he's a good FOTM. That means Friend of Toronto Mic'd. And Larry, you're now an FOTM as well, Friend of Toronto Mic'd. Okay.

So you can put that beside your Jack Greeny Award. By the way, what is a Jack Greeny Award? Is it a medal? Is it a certificate? Is it a trophy? It's kind of like a silver plate kind of thing. That's not bad. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. It was nice. I had silver plate kind of thing. That's not bad. Yeah, it was nice. I had it done at Olympic Stadium. I got my presentation, rather than at Toronto. You know when the Blue Jays played the... Anyway, they would play exhibition games there. Yeah, yeah, that was called... What was that called? Not the Prentiss Cup.

No, no, no. The Pearson Cup. No, that, no. The Pearson Cup. No, that wasn't the Pearson Cup. I guess, I don't know if they still call it that. I think they called it that for many years. It was the Pearson Cup, yeah. And you know, we used to trap the baseball players by asking them,

do you know who Pearson is? And they didn't. And then Buck Martinez, when he was still playing, he got wise to it, and he would warn them all the next year, you know. Listen, they're going to ask you, and he was, you know. Oh, Buck blew it. Okay.

All right. So we, what was I going to, what was I in the, I was in the middle of taking you somewhere here. Oh, yeah. So this is from Garnett Barnsdale. He wrote, I'm pretty sure Larry covered horse racing and was the paper's handicapper. Yes.

I am interested in that part of his career and if he still has an interest in that sport. So let's make Garnett happy. He's a huge horse racing fanatic. So talk about the horse racing part of your life. And I just want to let all the Blue Jay fans listening know that I have many Blue Jay questions and it's coming soon. Okay, go ahead, Larry. All right. I started covering horse racing.

First of all, standard red racing for the tally, and then I did thorough red racing, and then I did a combined. I did both of them for the tally, and then the tally folded in 71 November. And after a while, the Globe, they put me on the horse-facing beat again I gained I did did both and it's it's a beat I really enjoyed because there because I

enjoyed the back stretch and meeting the grooms the trainers especially the trainers that a lot of people didn't know really well. There's just a lot of really good stories there and just good people to talk to and people who really love their horse. I know it's a, it's a gambling, it's a business, it's a big dollar business and it's, it's, um, you know, and it, but I found that the people who look after the horses genuinely love them, you know. Right. And I feel they're kind of underpaid, you know.

It's like a lot of people who do those jobs, but they're so important, you know. And I used to know, get to know the exercise riders. So I used to cover the races, except for the big stakes races, I used to try to cover it from the back stretch and get stories like that. And so just as my way of getting back at all the pageantry of the Queen's Plate, for two or three years running there,

I did a story, and the main story going into the Queen's Plate would have been about all the grooms. I do a little thumbnail, or, you know, as part of a feature of each of the grooms of each of the horses in the Queen's Plate, and it was good, because they all had good stories, and you know, I used to, yeah, I used to go to have a few beers with them. They're the people. You get the real stuff from them anyway. But once, another time, I do the same with the Standard Brits. There's a guy named Shakey Louie.

He used to look after Trotter, Grandpa Jim. And he was a character. He's Canadian. And another time, I got to know another groom. I can't remember his name now but he looked after a mayor trotter named Delmonica Hanover and he said would you like to jog her one day at this is at Greenwood right and she's getting ready for the Maple Leaf trotting classic. And I said,

sure. So I got there when I had to go to Fort Erie to do the thoroughbreds that afternoon but I went there early in the morning so I got to

do a lap with Delmonica Hanover. Okay. And you know, now this is the story. And the one thing

is you don't realize I didn't have goggles on but I just had my glasses and you wouldn't believe that what comes back from a horse sticks on your glasses like for a long time i'm talking like days maybe even weeks but the shame of it all is that in the race the big trotting class um maple leaf trotting classic she broke stride which she never did you know and i kind of felt weird. I wonder if it's just because having strange hands

holding the reins that one day kind of throw her. Yeah, who knows? And luckily, I felt vindicated two weeks later or a week later when she won the Roosevelt International Trot, which is like the world championship of trotting horses. They bring them all over from all over the world. She was one great mare. She was one of my favorite.

Her and another one was Fresh Yankee, who was driven by Joe O'Brien. And Joe was such a great driver, you know, and trainer. And, you know, he's a Hall of Famer. He's from the Maritimes. So then there's the other part of it was so I got to the point where I'd rather

talk to those people than the big names. Although in harness racing the guys are so good. Even like great names like Billy Houghton and they were always really good. And you could call them up if you needed something. And I also got to cover the Roosevelt International once.

When I was at the Telegram, and Fresh Yankee had not won, she'd been closed for a couple of years, and I was haggling with them to let me go cover it. And Doug Creighton, the the managing editor wasn't so sure and I said look give me an advance for 100 bucks I'll put it on her that's how confident I am she's going to win and that'll pay for my expenses he says no you don't have to do that we'll send you and anyway she won the race and uh you know I I had a few dollars. I'm not a big bettor, but I did have a few dollars on her.

That was a big thrill just to see. You know, you have to remember in those days, it was kind of the international aspect of it was really important in horse racing because it was just, you didn't get that in the thoroughbreds so much, you know. So then, like also, I got to cover a lot of big thoroughbred races besides the local ones. I did my first derby, Kentucky Derby in 1976. I did 77, I got to cover Seattle Slough's

Triple Crown, and I covered all the races. And in 1978, lo and behold, another Triple Crown with Firmed. One of the greatest duels with him and Aladar. And that Belmont Stakes was one of the best races I've ever seen live. And I got to, I mean, just think they hadn't had a Triple Crown for like 25 years or something. And I could cover them back to back. And we almost had another one with Spectacular Bit a couple of years later. And I remember Buddy Delp was a trainer.

We used to call him Spectacular Bud. And he was really against, from Maryland,land was really against the new york press so once again i am a backstretch person right right so when spectacular bid wins and he wasn't going to talk to the new york press so or the general press media i was because he has this resentment against new york press so as soon as he won, I hightailed it to the back stretch at Churchill Downs. Went right to the barn. And there

comes Buddy. And I'm sitting there. He says, I'm not going to talk to those guys. I'm not going to talk to those guys. And I'm saying, yeah, don't do it. Don't do it. To myself. Stay here. Give me the story. So finally he got talked into going to the press conference and all that,

but I tried. Remind me, what year does Greenwood shut down? I can't remember now. Early 90s though, right? Yeah. Early 90s. And I spent a lot of time there. I'll bet, I'll bet.

Hey, I'm going to shout out my friend and my client. I proudly produce Down the Stretch, which is the definitive Ontario horse racing podcast. And I just want to shout out FOTM Hall of Famer, Peter Gross. I know Peter. Hello, Peter. Any good Peter Gross stories? No. Can I tell you a story about one of my great triumphs of the Kentucky Derby?

Yeah, of course. Well, Philly hadn't won it forever, right? This was about 1915. And I'm looking at this Philly genuine risk who didn't look like a Philly, you know. She looked like a Philly, you know. She was a very strong horse, and she was really doing well. And Dave Stevenson, who had been director of racing at the Ontario Jockey Club, has now had gone on to New York. But I saw him at the Derby. He says, take a look at this filly. She is really training well.

I have to give him some credit here. And B-Roy Jolly was a trainer. He did not want to enter her. He wanted to enter her in the Kentucky Oaks, right? But the owners, the Firestones, they wanted to put her in the derby. And I got to know the exercise rider pretty well. So after conversing with those people, I put her on top. I think the headline was, the filly is a genuine risk. She won and paid like 28 bucks.

A friend of mine said he had a bookie who took six bets on that derby and five of them were on genuine risk. He was not happy with me. So I was happy. And then another, another thrill, like as far as betting goes, I mean, would have been covering Sonny's Halo, winning the Kentucky Derby in 83. And I had so much money from home and I had to do an expose. The expose was after that.

So my wallet was so big I barely get it in my pocket because of all the money I cashed and not a lot of it was mine but every every time I'd phone home like you phone the office somebody else would put another one to you know put another bed on on Sonny's but that was But that was, anyway, it was a lot. But I was kind of nervous, though, because here I am going to St. Louis covering the Expo series, right? And, you know, I wanted to go to East St. Louis for the all-night bars, and I got this wad in my head.

I was kind of nervous. A lot of cash. Pops, we may close, we may doze, but we never close. In East St. Louis, they have a 24-hour bar there. There's nothing like being after a World Series like in 1982 and being in Pops at 7 in the morning and they're

cleaning the place out. They say, we better get home, Bill. That was Bill Lever who was at the Sun. We better get home, Bill, because they're going to have a parade. You might get caught in the traffic. Man, you've covered some events here. Okay, so let's get some nuts and bolts taken care of. Firstly, you mentioned the expos there.

You covered the expos at Jari Park. I did. Okay, tell me a little bit about that. Another stadium I'll never get to. Great park. Well, it was good. I covered, let's see, I covered the last series of the season, of their first season, 69.

And Kurt Flood was playing for the Cardinals. And unfortunately he didn't play. I think he might have played just a couple of innings, if at all, because he was injured, right? And that was memorable for that. But it was also, I loved the crowd there. It was really, it's only, I think, a Montreal crowd can be compared to Toronto. It was a certain joy, you know?

And, you know, it's the end of the first season. And, you know, it was just a lot of fun there. Gene Mock was a bit of a sourpuss, but that's okay. I mean, he always was. I tried to talk to him a little bit, but he—I guess I got there kind of late for his post-mortem on the season, right? And I guess with him, I think he knew he was getting into, but the thing is, I don't care if you expect it, losing for these guys is difficult, right? Right.

And John Robertson was there in Montreal, was one of the funniest people I've ever met, and a great writer, and He later came to Toronto. I just like the atmosphere of the place, and I did cover other games at Jerry Park, like, say, opening days and stuff like that, and I covered them a lot more when they were in Olympic Stadium, which was routinely

voted by, when the players, New York Times used to do a players poll, it was routinely voted as the worst baseball park, you know, going. Somehow beating out Exhibition Stadium. Yeah, but Exhibition Stadium was quirky. I liked it.

Well, it's not a baseball park. Yeah, I loved it because that's where my Blue Jays played. The desk, I was, well, it's not a baseball park. Yeah, I loved it because that's where my Blue Jays played. Yeah. The desk would always, I was always, I was always referred to the confounds of Exhibition Stadium and they'd always change it to the confines, you know, and I'd say, no, no, no. Confounds because of the way the ball would bounce, that terrible turn. And confines is Wrigley Field. You can't. I know that.

You can't take that. You can't, you know, you can't argue with desk guys sometimes. They have a lot to say, right? Oh my goodness. Okay, so I got to get you covering the J's. But firstly, you mentioned that you were at the Toronto Telegram, and then the Telegram is shuttered in 1971. Yeah.

Is that the same year you joined the Globe and Mail? Yeah. 1971. Yeah, yes. Okay, so. It took a little holiday and went to the racetrack and stuff like that, Aqueduct and Garden City, and came back. And the first assignment for the Globe was Chinese ping pong players were visiting Toronto.

Okay. Okay. Now table tennis, right? Table, I call it ping pong. Table tennis, whatever. Whatever you want to call it. That's quite the first venture there. Okay, so this is 1971. Obviously, there's no Blue Jays yet.

November, and I was on the desk, and John Bassett had closed the paper, and he also owned the Argos, right? I used to cover quite a bit of Argos stuff. So I'm on the desk when the Argos lost the Grey Cup and I was probably pretty happy about that. Just because of what had happened. You know, it's kind of tough

when you get a three-year-old daughter and you don't have a job. Well, yeah, yeah. It's karma, right? It was the second time that it's happened to me. But you get a job so quickly. Like, that's relatively short.

So how do you get the gig? You're Larry, come on over? Yeah, basically, they called me up. I could have gone to the Montreal Star, too. Okay. And I could have gone to the Toronto... But you wanted to stay here. You're a Toronto guy.

Well, I could have gone to the Toronto Sun. I was going to be their first hockey writer. Wow. Because George Gross and Doug Creighton, they asked me. And I said, sure, I took it, okay. But what happened was the Globe also called, and Doug Creighton said to me, he said, our financing has fallen through, so if you get another job,

you might as well don't turn it down, because there's nothing certain with this new paper we're trying to start. Right. So I went to the Globe and did an interview with Clark Davey, the managing editor, and I said, okay. And I got offered a job, but I said, I waffled, and I said, can I get back to you on that, right, you know, and I'll get back to you, kind of thing, I don't like to do that, but then,

because I was still having hopes that I could work with, because Doug Creighton's one of the best bosses you'd ever have, and gross was a lot of fun, and so I had to make a decision, right? And when Doug came up to me and said that we've got the financing game, we're on. But by then, I'd said I had to tell the globe that I had them. And in between that, I got a call from Dennis Harvey. I used to work for him at The Spectator. He called me up and said, look, don't go to that new tabloid. He said, it's not going to work.

And he says, you can come here. Because there was Rick Matsumoto, I think a couple of other people, Bob Johns, they went to the Montreal Star. Oh, the Star. Yeah, yeah. The old Montreal Star, right? Right, right.

Well, yes, it's important youngsters realize that the sun, the little paper that grew, it was no sure thing when it was launched. No, it wasn't. It was uncertain. And, you know, if I didn't have a family, I would have gladly have taken the chance. But my good friend, as it turned out, Eden Howitt, became the hockey writer, which is good. I was glad that, you know, that at least he got it.

And then John Iaboni, another friend, who he also did a lot of hockey, did a very good job for them. Now, go ahead, sorry, Larry. The thing is that the Sun, they really developed a strong sports section, you know. And, you know, at the Globe, we had a good sports, we had, at one time, had a great sports section, you know. And, you know, the Globe, we had a good sports, we had, at one time, had a great sports section, but, you know, as years went on, they kind of

de-emphasized it more. Funnily enough, we'll talk more about these Globe sports writers, but funnily enough, just today I confirmed the return of Stephen Brunt to Toronto Mic'd. So, listeners will be interested. In late May, Stephen Brunt back in studio for his third visit,

but his first since leaving Sportsnet. So that's happening. So tune in for that. I work with Stephen. Yeah, I was going to say, that's Globe and Mail triggered the memory there. But any Stephen Brunt stories while I drop his name? No, I think most of the stories are about me.

What about David Schultz? We used to go to the World Series and all that, but those guys always went home early. I didn't go home early. What about David Schultz? He wouldn't go home early. Do you have any David Schultz stories? Only because he's here tomorrow.

You know, with David, I didn't really cover a lot of things with him. I went more in the office. He was hockey, and I was into baseball. David, he was on the desk when he first got there. So I got to know him then. I remember the usual

desk reporter exchanges. Nothing spectacular there. Okay, so once I get you assigned as the Blue Jays beat writer, it's going to be a lot of Blue Jays the rest of the way. So before I get you assigned as the Blue Jays beat writer, it's going to be a lot of Blue Jays the rest of the way. So before I get you assigned as the Blue Jays beat writer, which I believe happens in 1980, Olympics.

How many Olympics did you cover? Just the one. Okay, which one? 84. Oh, that's the boycott Olympics. Yes. So I was fooled by that because I was very young and Canada was dominating.

And I was like, we're like world beaters. And then it was like, oh, yeah, but, you know, these particular countries weren't there. That was a great Olympics. I lucked into a lot of really good stories because nobody knew, because of the boycott, nobody knew who the real favorites were, you know. And so I remember Jim Christie and those guys, that guy was kind of the last guy. And so they made out the assignments

and they tried to go, obviously, you know, the columnists and the guy who's the regular Olympic reporter, they tried to go to the spots where they were going to get the medals, right? Right. It turned out it didn't work out that way. But they sent me a member to the cycling. Because the women were supposed to win a medal at least.

They were favorites. But they didn't. They didn't get to the podium. But on that same card, the next race was the Steve Bauer one where he just missed a gold medal by a nose. So that turned out to be a great story, you know, you know, because that was totally unexpected. I got to a few others like that and I had a lot of fun with that because I wasn't like the main guy. I did a lot of offbeat features and stuff like that. And I would stumble into stories where a Canadian would win a medal.

I ended up being the Lake Casitas expert. That's where they held the rowing, and the Canadians did well. The Canadian women cleaned up, and so did the men, the eights or something. And then there was twins on that team, and I'm still not sure yet if I was quoting the right twin. And there was twins on that team, and I'm still not sure yet if I was quoting the right twin. And I remember once there was the bus to Lake Casitas, and those events were held early.

So it's 4 in the morning. I didn't bother going to sleep one night. So I hung out in the press room there at the press center. I remember I had a few beers with a guy from New Zealand. There's a hoot. So now it's 4. I'm going to get that early bus. So it's 4 o'clock or something like that or 5 o'clock in the morning, whatever.

And there was this other guy taking a snooze on the lawn there. He was waiting for the bus too. But all of a sudden the sprinkler system went off. The poor guy jumped up. And he's got his notes in that and they're all soaked and everything. Oh, The poor guy jumped up and he's got his notes in that and they're all soaked and everything. Oh, the poor guy. I fell in love with him.

Oh, okay. So now it's time to learn. Who was the, I don't even know the answer to this. Who was the Blue Jay beat writer before you? Because the Jays started in 77. Paul Patton and Neal Campbell. The real Neal. Like and Neal Campbell. The real

Neal. Another Neal Campbell we had was Neal A. Campbell, who was younger. He came on the Blue Jay beat later, but Paul Patton and Neal Campbell, and then Jim Gola was on there.

He took over from Neal Campbell. And then Paul Patton got in, I think, a car accident or something like that, got injured, and I was covering a tennis tournament. And C.S. Jennings, the sports editor, called me up at the tournament and says, look, I got an offer I hope you can't refuse. He said, we need somebody to go down to spring training. And I was a baseball fan but you know had been away from outside of you know the experiences with the expos hadn't done all that

much actual covering it um so i i took and went down there for my first spring training and naturally i found my way to the racetrack a few times, too, because there was a trainer from Woodbine. A lot of trainers, they would, at Tampa Bay Downs, it had a nice deep track, so it legged up the horse as well, you know, for the regular season on Ontario. And Donnie Campbell and I used to get together quite a few times when he was down there. He was a very good trainer. And that was Steinbrenner's

track. But that was the first spring training. So I would do, I think I did about the first two weeks. I did it right up until there were games and then I had to go home. But okay, so this is again, we're in 1980 here? Is that where we're at?

Okay, so we're going to talk to you about these many, many years you covered the Blue Jays for the Globe and Mail. But I'm going to just give you a couple of gifts here real quick here before I get too far beyond. Okay. So firstly, Larry, do you like Italian food? Sure. I have a frozen meat lasagna for you in my freezer upstairs, courtesy of Palma Pasta. And this is delicious, man.

I'm telling you. Okay. Delicious. Delicious lasagna., man. I'm telling you. Okay. Delicious, delicious lasagna. You're going to absolutely love it. So thank you to palmapasta.com. Everybody should go to palmapasta.com. Get your Italian food there. They have locations in Mississauga and Oakville. So you've got your Great Lakes. You got your Palma Pasta. I have, this is the first time I've been able to do this in a few months here. So I'm excited, Larry. You came at the right time.

But this is a Bluetooth speaker, courtesy of Mineris, because they just launched season four of their award-winning podcast, Yes, We Are Open, hosted by FOTM Al Grego. So you can listen to Yes, We Are Open, Larry, on your new speaker. Okay, thank you. You're doing well, Larry. We're not even done here. I like i'm monty hall but i will have al grego back in studio soon and uh we'll talk more about these uh inspiring stories because he's been talking to small business owners about uh how they uh how they uh persevered and honestly i'm a small business owner so it's super inspiring to me and it will be to you too. So subscribe to the Yes, We Are Open podcast

from Moneris. Again, award winning. I can't say that about my show. What's going on there? Okay. I also have a measuring tape courtesy of Ridley Funeral Home. Larry, you never know

when you need to measure something, buddy. Never know. Tape measure home run. Right. That's right. Tape measure home run always comes back to baseball. So shout out to Ridley Funeral Home.

And we're introducing a new sponsor to the program this month. So I got to introduce them during the Moe Berg episode yesterday. But the Moment Lab, brand marketing and strategy and PR. I mean, you guys, if you're looking to help your brand, Larry, here, now that you're not with the globe anymore, it sounds like you're still very, very active. But if you want to get your message out to the world, if you're looking to increase your brand's visibility and reach your target audience, the Moment Lab specializes in public relations. They have a team of experienced professionals who know how to craft stories that resonate

with your audience and generate positive media coverage. You know all about media coverage, Larry. So contact my friends, Matt and Jared at the Moment Lab. I can introduce you and you can learn more about how they can help you achieve your public relations goals. Okay. Blue Jays baseball, man. First question.

I got many, many questions. Many are from me, but some come from FOTMs like Hebsey. Hebsey wants me to ask you, Larry, what's the best road city when you're covering the Blue Jays on the road? I like them all. There's got to be one, though. There's always something good in every city. Like Milwaukee might be, for instance, considered a dull city,

but it's great for neighborhood bars. I can remember Allison Gordon and myself and Bill Lever playing with a bartender. We played this dice game for rounds, you know, stuff like that. But I would say Boston because I love Fenway Park. And also my cousin, my late cousin, he was director of histology at the Fourth Scythe Dental Center, which is Harvard University. Okay.

And so I get to visit him. So I always got all the Boston trips. Okay, I hugged him. And so I could visit him. And there's a story with him, if you don't mind me telling it. I don't mind, of course. This is your life, Larry.

This is my first game, no, my second year. Second year of, I guess it was peewee baseball in East York at Cedarville Park. It's called Wadlow Park now, where Rob and Rich Butler also played. Of course. My first game was against a team that he coached.

He was about 10 years older than me. And very first at bat, I hit a two-run home run. I batted second. Leadoff guy, Roy Appleton, classmate of mine. He got on base and I hit an opposite field home run and it wasn't as cheapy. Okay. And I had a really, really good game. Now this is where my cousin John psyched me out. It was a high scoring game.

I was on base the whole game, every time, one way or another. I don't know if I hit for the cycle or not, but I had a lot of hits, four or five, whatever. So I come up, and it's the last inning, and we got runners in scoring position, two out. And my cousin John yells out, okay, here's the guy we got to get. Here's the big guy.

And psychs me right out. So what did I do with the clutch situation? I took a fastball right down the plate for called strike three. And you know what? He knew how to psych me out. You know what I mean? He got in your head. He got in my head.

So that was, but anyway, And we lost the game Oh Oh Larry Okay well you can't win them all You can't win them all here Alright I want to tell With the same team

Yeah You should know that John Hiller Was one of our pitchers Oh Tiger pitcher Yeah Yeah In the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame man Yeah

He was one of my classmates too Okay And What a stacked team We It's a story here Like we were in the class But He wasn't our starting pitcher man. He was one of my classmates too. Okay. What a stacked team. We, it's a story here, like we were in the class, but he wasn't our starting pitcher.

One of my neighbors, Ray Carter, was a starting pitcher because John had a paper route. He had a star paper route. He had the late papers. And so our whole strategy was hold him, Ray. Hold on until John gets here. Wow.

Because not only was he our best pitcher, obviously. I'm sure. He was our best hitter, right? He could crank a ball. Hey, let me ask you a John question. Didn't he have a, like in his 20s, he had a heart attack? He did, yes, when he was with the Tigers. And he came back.

And he came back, right. And he had one of the greatest seasons of a reliever ever had. I don't have the stats on the top of my head. And he's a Toronto guy, East York guy. East York. They always say he's from Scarborough because after grade six, I think it was, either six or seven, he moved to, his family moved to Scarborough. But I can remember sitting there at shortstop and all of a sudden I'd see John and his bicycle

with the empty, you know, thing of basket out front because he'd gotten rid of all his papers. Right. And here he was. So we knew we had some hope. I love that's a great story. And, you know, you're as you know, you're in Etobicoke right now, home of the greatest Canadian baseball player of all time.

And there's a question coming up later about him. And then I have a little story about his mom. OK, hold on to that. Dave Steeb. a question coming up later about him and then i have a little story about his mom okay hold on to that dave steve i get so i do host a uh sports podcast and we record every friday morning it's me and mark hebbs here it's called hebsey on sports and so i love talking about these 80s jays right because it's like those were my teams that 85 team was my uh ride or die team i loved it listened to every game watched when i could but was But was Dave Steve as difficult to deal with, you as a member of the press, as a legend has it?

Yeah, sometimes he was, but the thing is, you could wait him out. And especially if an afternoon game, you could wait him out because we had the time, because of deadlines at night, it's a little harder. But I will say that he always gave some of the best stuff because he always gave pretty honest answers which is great for you know yeah and he would say things like yeah we asked him about the home run ball and um but he gave up say and he said yeah he said i threw a slider to make him look bad so i wanted to make a slider i wanted to slide throw an even better one. And of course it flattened out

and it's like a bad fastball, right? My guy hits it out. He was difficult because he was super competitive. Was that part of it? I think so. Everybody's different. He has this personality and maybe

you have to learn how to deal with people. That's all. I just can't believe he was an outfielder. When they signed, they had to play him an outfielder because his mother said he's going to be an all-star outfielder. He was a center fielder. Yeah, Bobby Maddock and Al Amakia scouted him, and each one takes credit for him.

But they saw his future as being a pitcher. He would come in and pitch. But they humored him. They let him show to himself that he couldn't hit at the professional level. It's wild to me. It kind of reminds me of how, although much more impressive than this, but Wendell Clark was drafted as a defenseman, right, and became one of the great left-wingers

in Maple Leaf history. So, of course, there's a low bar for that. Okay, so Dave Steeb, man, in your opinion, having watched the bulk of his prime, should he be in the Hall of Fame? You know, maybe by today's standard, yes because but when he was up for voting it was things like 300 wins were important right all that he played on some bad teams you know yeah and it he really probably would have had a but wins aren't as important now people look at other

other things now and obviously the way the game has changed, you don't get as many 20-win pitchers. He never won 20, but that wasn't his fault. Right. I think he's the best Blue Jay pitcher I've seen. So better than Roy Halladay. Yeah, you could make an argument for both. Of course.

I guess you could say you can make a case for both of them as being the best, but I just think that Steve, when he was on, we just expected him to go the distance, and he was so nasty. His slider was so nasty, and I remember Buck Martinez would get mad at him at times because he didn't use his fastball enough. And the other thing, he did have a lot of hard luck. Oh, yeah.

And the thing is that people were starting to think that it was just whining, you know, by him or on his behalf. So this is the days before computers, so you had to do a little work. So I went back and I analyzed all his starts, right? And it turns out he did pitch in bad luck. If it wasn't blue pits, it was, you know,

fielding things or, you know, various things that went wrong, you know, or the bullpen giving it up. So I went through all this and I went to Buck. He was still catching and I said, you know what? Steve's right. He says, he's Buck, he was still catching, and I said, you know what, Steve's right. I said, he's right, he is pitching at hard luck. And Buck says, please don't show it to him.

Please don't show it to him. Because just what he needed is confirmation, you know. Well, I know he eventually, in Cleveland, he finally gets his no-hitter. But how many, you were there at the... Yeah, and I was also there at the two near misses. Yeah, I was going to say... The one that bounced over Manly's head and then the one where Fred McGriff couldn't quite get to a ball in the ninth inning, yeah.

I'm so glad he got one just because to be that close and have those circumstances rob you of your no-no. We were all worried because Junior Felix was under the ball for the last out. Okay, when he drops it, is they going to call an error or a hit? But he caught it. He caught it.

Famously, his book, of course, was Tomorrow I'll Be Perfect. Well, it wasn't a perfect game, but it was a no-hitter. No, that was probably... Yeah, he walked a few people in that game, but it probably wasn't... I think he's pitched one hitters where he pitched better, you know? Right. But it was really good to see him get that pitched one hitters where he pitched better, you know? Right.

So, but it was really good to see him get that. All right. Dave, Steve, love it. Now, would you take a moment and talk?

I'm actually wearing a, a faux retro George Bell jersey and George Bell was my guy. In fact, this is my opportunity to play this for us all. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto Mike. A little promo. Thank I'm George Bell. You listen to Toronto Mike. A little promo.

Thank you, George Bell. Can you just tell us a little bit about that outfield? Shaker, Lloyd Mosby in center, and of course, George Bell in left, and Jesse Barfield with the cannon for an arm in right field. Yeah. They were good. They were, I don't know if they're the best outfield in baseball,

but when they were coming up, they were called the best young outfield in baseball. They're all like the identical age, like two weeks apart or something. Yeah, and it was, they were good. I don't, Jesse was just an incredible arm, and it helped being an exhibition stadium.

I mean, you know, the artificial turf, the ball gets to them quicker. It was short. It was shorter than the dimension said. There was a mistake made. It was probably about three or four feet shorter than the three, whatever it was on the wall, because they put the fence on the wrong side of the flagpole.

Anyway, but guys went first to third at their peril. I've never seen a guy with the accuracy as well. He could throw a strike. I remember I'd see him throw a strike to home plate. He's just really good. George, when he first started out, wasn't

that bad defensively, but he became not such a good defensive player, you know, but, boy, he could hit. And I remember his first, very seldom do you see, Jose did the same thing. Very often you don't see a guy have a really hot spring training where he's 400, and then they just keep hitting the same way when the season starts.

But George Bell did that his first year. And he was, he was, I love that guy because he's, he was a team player. I know he had a bad rep with some people, you know, from, you know. Kiss my purple ass? Yeah. That's what he said. And the Globe and Mail published that, not purple butt. Well, I know it's ass because I've had enough of you scribes on to confirm it.

But yeah, it was always reported to young Mike that it was purple butt. No, we, the Globe, we had it done as purple ass. Okay. Okay. And so the thing is that, I think Beeson will tell you this too, that he felt that between him and maybe Todd Stoudamire, they're the two guys of Beeson's era there who really, really cared about the Blue Jays.

You know, George, I remember when Buck Martinez dislocated his ankle and broke his leg in seattle right and george was the first guy over to help him you know in fact he was too enthusiastic kind of helping him mark says you're hurting me you know when he's carrying the stretcher you know this is when he throws the guy out right yeah oh that was the greatest play yeah um wow um throw two guys it's right out at the plate um he got um he first guy guy, Phil Bradley, knocked him over. That's when he was injured, and he's on the ground. And Gorman Thomas, an old friend of Buck's with the Brewers,

wasn't going to. He just kind of went softly into home plate, and Buck was able to tag him. But what had happened is Buck's on his back, and Gorman's going to third base, and Buck throws to third, and it goes wild, obviously, because he's on his back. Right. And George Bell, I think, got the ball and threw it in,

and it was a strike, and they got him. And do you know what? It wasn't even the play of the week, if I remember right. Carlton Fisk tagged two guys at home, but, you know, the Carlton Fisk swipe tags, and they made that play of the week, if I remember right. Carlton Fisk tagged two guys at home. But, you know, the Carlton Fisk swipe tags, and they made that play of the week. How could they not make this one play of the week? Because it's Toronto, Larry.

It's Toronto. But I was amazed by that. You know, Carlton Fisk, okay. It's because it's Carlton Fisk. I know. You know, you mentioned Beeston there. Do you have an email address for Paul Beeston? Do you have a contact info for him?

He doesn't answer his emails. Only because I was with him last week, the Jays season opener. And we were watching the ninth inning, Jays win, and we were together for that. And we had a really good chat. But I didn't have the courage to say, Paul, get in my basement. I've got to collect these stories. And now I want to follow up with something. But I in my basement. I got to collect these stories. And now I want to follow up with something, but I need, you know, I need an email.

I'll get it for you. Okay. So shout out to Beeston. Absolutely. Okay. So. But getting back to that outfield. Oh yeah, we haven't got to Lloyd yet.

Lloyd, like I like them all in their own way, different ways. Lloyd, George is funny. I've got to get, tell this. Yeah, please tell me any George Bell stories you want. Are you kidding me? He was, he would always say, I'm not talking to you guys.

I'm not talking to you guys. Guess who he hung out with at the hotel bar after the game? Us. He hung out with the reporters. So one day I told him, I said, George, you know,

I've quoted you eight times since you weren't talking to us. Okay. So let me ask you another question here. Is it true, I believe it was Fergie Oliver used to give $50 bills? Yes. Okay, okay. And they'd take it and casually stuff it up their sleeve, you know, kind of thing. Yeah, I love those stories too. Okay, so shout out to Fergie Oliver.

Lloyd Mosby, like, he, I think he envisioned us, thought of himself more of as a basketball player. He always told me, I said, what player would you be if you were a basketball player? Because he got his Shaker nickname from basketball. He says, Norm Nixon, who was a really good guard with the Lakers. And so... You know, I don't think I knew this, Larry. I don't think I knew the origin of the Shaker nickname. He could shake them big, apparently.

Okay, so basketball is where he got that nickname. You probably never knew that Cecil Fielder was an all-star point guard in high school in basketball. No, because he's huge. Yeah, we never thought of that, would you? Okay, now listen, I'm going to jump around chronologically, but Jason Elliott did write in with a question for you, Larry. He wants to know,

any explanation for how Cecil Fielder left Toronto for Japan, then Detroit, and became such an incredible hitter? He just wants to know, how do you go to Japan and then become 50 home run guy? I think he, I think, I don't know. I think he just got a chance to play, you know. And don't forget he had Fred McGriff. Fred McGriff was here.

And they were good friends. Paul Samer. And, you know, Cecil, I remember we had lunch together once near the end of the season, near the end of the season. Yeah. And he was talking to me and he, and he really wanted out of Toronto because it was a dead end for him, right? And so he talked about it, and then I said to him, I said,

okay, he says, you know who I am, you know what I do, can I write this? And he said, well, I'll tell you what. He says, you can write it when we're eliminated from the playoffs so they weren't in the playoffs but eliminated from contention right and um so him and fred were always playing cribbage together so i remember when they finally were eliminated from the race I went over to Cecil and said okay we can do that story now he said wait till I'm finished playing cribbage with Fred

and you know I can remember there was a competition and when they decided that that Fred would be the full time I think at the time DH ahead of Cecil that Fred would be the full-time, I think at the time, DH, ahead of Cecil, maybe 87, whatever it was. But this is how close those guys were. So when they announced that, when Jimmy Williams announced that Fred got the job over at Cecil,

I phoned up Fred in his hotel room, and Fred said, can we talk later? Can we talk some other time? And I didn't understand. I thought he was stalling, you know, putting me off or something like that. So I said, I had no other choice. So I said, okay. What I realized that, didn't realize what I found out later is that he was playing cribbage with Cecil

and he did not want to talk about it in front of Cecil and make him feel bad, right? And, you know, it's kind of a classy act. Sure. And the funny thing is, they had Fred McGriff penciled in. It was the opening day. And I said to Jimmy,

did you, the starter, can't remember the you see the starter? I can't remember the name of the starter, but Cecil hit two home runs against him last year. I said, do you remember how Cecil did against this guy last year? And Jimmy, so anyway, when the lineup comes out, there's Cecil in there.

Because he didn't realize. He's like, well, he forgot or something. No. Okay, Larry. So lots of ground to cover here, but just first base alone, if I think of these four guys who kind of took over for each other,

you had Willie Upshaw, Fred McGriff, Johnny Allarude, and Carlos Delgado, like back to back to back to back. That's quite the run at first base for this franchise. It is. That's quite the force in there. And I mean, I think I'm of the opinion, I'm very biased opinion that Carlos Delgado deserved a serious Hall of Fame.

I think so. I think you didn't get enough votes. I mean, obviously you didn't, to survive one ballot, right? Which is surprising. Yeah. I mean, he's, I don't know, he's also a Hall of Fame person. Right.

Right. Yes, he is. And I think what we're going to see is standards seem to be, with the Veterans Committee, you know, the standards seem to be changing a little bit too. It used to be it seemed like you had to hit a a milestone you know and stuff like that and he never quite hit that that milestone but he was um he was really i think deserving of it i voted for him anyway so ask this is bruce walker who sent in this question not larry walker

that's this is bruce walker i know bruce okay well bruce walker from east york i probably probably Larry Walker. This is Bruce Walker. I know Bruce. Bruce Walker from East York? Probably. I'll ask the question. He goes, ask Larry, one hell of a journalist. That's you, by the way. Which Blue Jay player was the biggest jerk he had to contend with? Bruce Walker. Let me think.

Dave Revering. I don't even remember Dave. I'm waiting for a name I know, Larry. Dave Revering. I don't even remember Dave. I'm waiting for a name I know, Larry. Dave Revering. Okay, well. Remind me who Dave is. He was with the Blue Jays, and he went on one of the pregame shows

when he was with the Blue Jays, and he thought he was too big for this expansion franchise. It was maybe Bobby Cox's first year. The team still, it was still early, fairly early in the season. They actually started getting good in the second half of the season. And Dave said that he would really like to play for a better team. I mentioned this, what he said, basically. And he topped the ball during the game.

He topped the ball off like it just trickled in front of the plate kind of thing and fell and never got up and bothered running to first base. Ah. So that coupled with what he'd said, he went to Bobby Cox and said, well, what do you think of that? He says, I'll tell you one thing. He says, if he wants a trade, we'll give it to him. He says, well, what would you think of that he says i'll tell you one thing he says we're gonna get we'll trade if he wants a trade we'll give it to him he says what would you get back for him he says

a used glove and a and a bottle of skunk oil that'd be fine and they they had an off day and i had the pleasure of um and having dealt with him before he was like he was like he he didn't want to be there and he was better than everybody else you know i don't like to vilify a guy but i mean that's the impression he was you know that that he gave us and um anyway they they brought up adams uh to replace him that they did after that road trip the day off and um so they got rid of him just just like that they just released him so they that was he was one of the biggest uh i wonder if i can do better yeah i get along with so many well let me do the converse here because rob clark williams wrote in and he wanted to know who's the best player you've dealt with on the

Blue Jays and it could be a tie but who would who are the solid sweetheart good good people that you've dealt with with this franchise well Delgado's one uh Mosby uh Bell and Barfield I mean those guys I I went go back to thes, and they were your favorite team. As far as a team to cover, they were my favorite too, because things hadn't gotten so corporate, you know, that you could actually chat with people, and, you know, you could get there at one in the afternoon and go in and talk to a guy like Rance Mullenix about hitting for, you know, and now it's like four o'clock, and they go see the manager, and then the guys are getting ready to go hit. And everything is a scrum now.

There's no access anymore. The access isn't as good. And, you know, I don't know whether... Yeah, we've given up a lot of access. So they would be among those. I mean, at one time, Garth Orge and Rance Mullenix were two good guys. I mean, Ernie Witt. I mean, I know I'm giving a big, long list here, but it's hard to pick out an absolute favorite. But I would say Delgado, I remember interviewing Delgado once, and he had a phone call, a message or something like that. He says, look, I've

got to go answer this call. So I said, that's fine. I got all I need, you know. And so I went out and I'm on the field there near the batting cage. And, well, 15 minutes later, Carlos comes into the dugout. He says, Larry, anything more? You know, just being thoughtful, you know. Yeah, I love it. And Lloyd Mosby, I loved his sense of humor. You could tell a joke, maybe a little bleak, you know,

but he'd get it, you know? Great sense of humor. Hell of a rapper, too, by the way. He's fun to talk to. Shaker had a good rap style to him, too. I've heard some rap songs from Shaker. Go ahead. And Jesse Burfield was always kind of a sweetheart guy.

George was, say, a little more hard-nosed. But we got along with a great... George is one of those grumpy guys with a heart of gold. I've seen him do things for people, like away from the baseball field, just little thoughtful gestures to people who are just working class people doing their jobs at a hotel or something the little things he would do and they're the kind of things that impress you about somebody you know nice to hear that nice to hear that all right so we talked about some of the people you worked with at the globe andrew stodin's question is uh what's your

weirdest marty york story oh do we have to get into that? Well, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Absolutely not. Well, weirdest one story? No, I don't know. Of course, my goal here is not to make you uncomfortable, but you did work many years with Marty York. I did, I did.

And the stories are kind of legendary. The stories were, okay, well, the kind of things I would have to deal with, I used to phone Pat Gillick every day, even in the off-season, okay? And if I missed a couple of days, Pat would call you and say, you haven't called me for a couple of days. That's the kind of thing it was. But I'd ask Pat a question sometimes, and he'd say, okay, who is this for?

You or Marty York? Because a lot of times, because he wouldn't talk to Marty, so I would have to be the go-between, you know, to get the quotes from Gillick. And finally, Gillick didn't want to do that anymore. So it put me in an uncomfortable position, you know. Well, I think Andrew Stoughton just put you in an uncomfortable position, you know. Well, I think Andrew Stoughton just put you in an uncomfortable position by asking you for it. I don't like to talk about, you know, colleagues too much. I don't want to sound like I'm waffling here.

I am. It's okay. But that's the truth. But the thing is, I don't like telling tales at a school kind of thing like that. No worries. Let me get you back to something. I'm sorry, Andrew.

I'm sorry. I apologize. Andrew's also an FOTM, so hello, Andrew Stoughton. I believe he's in the Peterborough area of this fine province. Jason Elliott. Again, he had a question earlier, a Cecil Fielder, but he has a second question. Since you wrote a book on the business and economic side of baseball,

what's the name? Is that Ballpark Figures? Yes. Okay, that came out in 1987. The Blue Jays and the Business of Baseball. So since you wrote that book, he's wondering what you think about how practical it would be for the Montreal to get a Major League Baseball

team again, for the return of an MLB team to Montreal? I think the important thing would be to get a stadium. And maybe they could get away with playing an Olympic stadium for a year or two, knowing that the stadium was being built. I think that would be a key. I mean, I think I'd love to see a team back in Montreal. And because I, but I think that's, I think that's going to be the key into getting the type of ownership that

Toronto was very lucky to have, you know, Labatt Brewery and the bank and all that involved, you know, because they had great ownership to start out with. And that was part of the story is that they were a lot different than other owners. And I think, so that would be a key for Montreal to get, you have to get solid ownership, but maybe guys who are great owners too, you know, how do you quantify that? But that's what you'd have to have. But they'd have to have a stadium.

Now, I'm not so sure what the public appetite is for providing public funds for a stadium now because there's a lot of other things that we need to spend money on. But the stadium, if they could find somebody who wants to pay for a stadium, I think they would get a team. Well, here in Toronto, we're busy spending our public funds

on private spas at Ontario Place. We're too busy investing in such ventures. Just don't wind me up, okay, Larry? Okay, no, you don't want to get me going on that stuff either. I was at Jarvis and Queens Quay today, and I was biking by Trillium Park there at Ontario Place, and I was thinking, seriously, Larry, if they mess with that, I love that site, and it belongs to the people here.

If they mess with it, I'm going to chain myself to the Cinesphere, and they're going to have to bulldoze me. You want to join me, Larry? I will. All right, so we got you, me, and Ben Rayner. And you know what? When I lived on in, before I moved in, I live at

Christie Pits now, right next to Christie Pits. That's my backyard and front yard. There was, I used to live in an apartment building and they were bought up a whole bunch of houses across the street and they were going to build town bunch of houses across the street, and they were going to build townhouses, except for one guy.

He was actually my daughter's guitar teacher. Okay. He was a musician. He held out. And I think when he brought the bulldozers, I think he was even out on the front lawn saying, no way you get my house. That's wild.

Which is great. I mean, they never did. That house is still there. Love it. I just delivered something to Midtown Gord. He's at like, I'm going to say, Christie and St. Clair, I'm going to say. And I took a bluer to Christie

and went up Christie on my bike on the weekend. Love the Christie pits. Okay. Mike from K-Dub says, Joey Votto to Toronto to wrap up his career of the Blue Jays. He's a character guy

like no other. And he says, Larry, yes or no? Yes. But is that less, yes, because I have, I have some insight here. I know you're the journalist

in the room, not me, but I was recently at a dinner. I like the name drop on this show. So Donovan Bailey and I were at dinner, okay? And the sommelier who was you know helping donovan choose his expensive wines was joey vato's mom yeah this is so this is only a few months ago and she starts talking about how yeah joey just you know he's playing uh chess at annex or whatever jo Joey had just left to go to spring training and there was talk about

how Joey Votto would absolutely love to wrap up his career at the Blue Jays, but the interest level from the Blue Jays was nil. Zero. That doesn't surprise me. So, this is funny. If Alex was here,

there might be a better chance. Right, and Alex is not here. He's busy winning World Series. Alright, and Alex is not here. No. He's busy winning World Series. He's winning World Series, yes. Aw. All right, so now I'm going to hit some greatest Blue Jay hits here. Okay, and by the way, we ran through your thoroughbred part of your career, and I just want to point out that you won a Sovereign Award in 81,

which I know what a Sovereign Award was because Peter Gross was nominated, in fact, has been nominated for a sovereign award against like these huge, like, like I think one was like Woodbine entertainment and the other is some other, maybe it's TSN or something big. Like it's a huge outfit. And meanwhile, it's just Peter Gross and I,

and we're like only three nominations or something. And we're nominated for a sovereign award, which we cannot win because of who we're up against. But I just wanted to point out that you did win a Sovereign Award in 81, and that's for Best Thoroughbred Racing Story of the Year. So where is that Sovereign Award right now? Do you have it?

Yeah, it's a lovely trophy. Is it on display in your home? It's in my front room, which nobody goes into. The trophy room. I remember we had a veterinarian over when I

looked after one of the cats and she was a horse lover too so she saw that and thought it was a lovely it's a really good trophy

it's one of the best you could ever get okay good good good and now because we're gonna close with Jays and again you've been amazing we've already

it would shock you if I told you how long you've been chatting you've been amazing we're gonna wind down with just a few quick hits on Blue Jays because we've got to get them to the World Series years. But Mike, okay, we covered him.

So, no, I wanted to point out something I learned when I was researching you, Larry, that when you were in Seattle on a baseball assignment in 1984, you covered the Green River murders? Yeah. Okay, because I happen to be a big Pearl Jam fan, and I know the guys there were in a band called Green River Murders? Yeah. Okay, because I happen to be a big Pearl Jam fan, and I know the guys there were in a band called Green River based on it. And I do know about these Green River Murders.

How did you, a baseball scribe, end up covering the Green River Murders in Seattle? Well, they just asked me to do it. They needed a front page story. Anyway, it was the big story at the time, and they were coming up with bodies and stuff like that. It was a new discovery and all that. So I talked to the police. I dealt with the police. And it turned out it was interesting. My daughter was in theater

and I remember talking to one of the police guys I talked to. His wife was a playwright. It was interesting. So we had a lot in common. So that kind of broke down some barriers. I also, you know, dealt with one of the reporters who was covering the case. And the paper's out of business now, the seattle post intelligence or i think it's

called um they were very helpful with me too but anyway that's one of those things i i was i've never considered myself say a baseball writer i'm a sports writer but i've also i've also worked news right and i started i never thought it was going to be a sports writer um the reason i got into sports is because Jim Proudfoot said that the star needed a bowling columnist because their bowling columnist, Noel Bates, was a law student and he was leaving for them. So Jim says, Chester says, because I was doing something else at the time, he said, if you really want to get back into newspapers, do you want to do that? And I said, well, he said, yeah, I would be interested.

He said, well, call Milt Dunnell. Talk about legends. So my knees buckled a little bit. So I get in a pay phone, and I called Milt. And he says, yeah, I'd be interested. Jim told me. He says, yes, we need somebody. When do you want me to start?

I asked him. He says, how about right now? Wow. So I went to the Star. And what it really was is best lines from the lanes and what um it was a collection of top scores from the various leagues right and of course my biggest challenge was sorting out the especially early was sorting up the difference between five pins and ten pins right because i was no bowler so that's how i started I started. And I ended up doing a lot of freelance.

I covered a lot of high school basketball and stuff like that, hockey. That's where I met the Mimico, which is appropriate. Yeah. Mimico, I covered their team winning the... Lacrosse? The championship, no, basketball championship. Oh, basketball.

Okay, because Mimico's a big lacrosse... Ted Schmidt is someone I still, all these years later, Ted Schmidt, I still am in contact with him on occasion. He calls me up once in a while or I email him or whatever. I was invited to the 50th, was it the 50th anniversary? Whatever it was, anniversary a few years ago. And I took pictures of Ted making the speech of the reunion of the team and all that and sent them to him.

So isn't that something that you can keep friendships that are... No, that's beautiful. And he played at Christy Pitt's too. He played baseball, I remember. For the Maple Leafs? No, he played in other leagues. Other leagues, okay. But don't bury the lead here.

At some point, there were so many sports writers at the Toronto Star that they had a bowling columnist. Yeah, it was freelance. But still, like today... Today you don't have that, right? Even the Toronto Blue Jays, they have... Well, Mike Wilner's there now, and you have Gregor Chisholm. I don't... I think that might...

I mean, Dave Fest... Who else is covering Blue Jays baseball bottom line is Rosie D'Amano she does she steps in and out you know depending what's going on

but you know I've had this chat with other like Dave Perkins for example will tell you you know when the Jays won

the World Series in 1993 this is how many people how many bodies the Toronto Stars sent to Philadelphia and you get the number and I can't remember the number right now,

but it might be a number like 40. Oh, it was a lot of, well, you're including... Photographers, everything they sent. Photographers, news people. I remember once they were, somebody told me that the Star had so many people at spring training that they were one or two bodies short of qualifying to be a bureau. Everybody wanted to go to spring training.

That's how mighty our newspapers were at some point. The coverage is a lot less now. The sports departments have shrunk. Well, the advertising has gone digital, right? So it's when everyone's putting their money into Google AdWords and Facebook ads, et cetera, et cetera. Let's print ads. But okay.

So I do want to check. So again, I'm going to burn through a few points. One is I want to ask you about Kelly Gruber because a few years ago, several years ago now, I suppose, Kelly Gruber was at this pitch talk event hosted by Ashley Docking. And by all accounts,

and I've seen the footage, but Kelly Gruber appears to have had one too many wobbly pops, if you will. He might have been enjoying some alcohol. And he absolutely acted what I would describe as misogynist, particularly towards Ashley Dawking. And since that event,

he's been persona non gratis at all these Toronto Blue Jay events. So if the 1992 World Series is reuniting at the Dome, there's two people who won't be there. One, of course, is Roberto Alomar, who's absolutely... Well, they had a reunion in August.

Yeah, and there was no Alomar, of course, but no Gruber. But there were a lot of people who weren't there either. Yeah, but only two were invited, I think. No, that would... Anyway, yeah, that is surprising. I guess I'm curious, what are your thoughts on... Although we've been...

It's funny, the Alomar thing. Obviously, they doesn't surprise me. I guess I'm curious, what are your thoughts on, because although we've been, it's funny, the Alomar thing, obviously they haven't told us anything except to say, trust us, you'd want him banned too, man, if you knew what we knew. That's the kind of deal there. But with Kelly, so we'll put Alomar aside. They ripped his name off the level of excellence, for goodness sakes. But Kelly Gruber, I just find it interesting that, by all accounts in my research, he's not invited to these reunions,

and it seems to be because of that event, that pitch talk event. But I'm just curious what your thoughts are on this, having no one Kelly Gruber. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. What he did was, you know, you described it. Misogyny. You know, I mean, yeah, I don't know. I have no interest in seeing the guy, talking to him.

Do you know, Larry, and again, I won't ask you to reveal anything out of school, but do you know anything about the Alomar situation? No, no, just what I've heard. I didn't know anything. You know, that's all. I don't know any specifics. See, I'm kind of a little bit removed from that part of it because I mainly do game stories and previews now.

I'm not like on a beat like I would be at a newspaper and I don't talk to the general manager every day and stuff like that, like I used to, you know. So maybe on the way out here, uh, I was going to ask you about, before I realized how, how, you know, we got to keep selling for the sequel, but I was going to ask you about the 87 collapse, but I feel like that'll just depress all the, uh, the listeners. So maybe if you don't mind, like maybe just sharing a little bit about like that when Timlin throws to Carter in Atlanta. And then, of course, speaking of Carter, when he touches them all at the Dome in 1993.

This team won it all. Something the Expos didn't do and something the Leafs haven't done since well before I was born. Yeah, I remember that home run. It's funny when it was going and I didn't realize it was going to be a home run. When it first hit, I thought maybe it was going to be off the wall and the Blue Jays would tie the game or something like that. And that's what I was thinking about. Okay, so it looks like maybe there'll be extra innings, you know?

And all of a sudden it went out, and obviously the place went nuts. And that was pure unbridled joy on Carter, the way he ran around those places. Absolutely. And I was, it was nice for Cito Gaston, you know, because, you know, here's a guy who had a lot of success up to that time, but didn't always get the credit, right? Had a lot of success up to that time, but didn't always get the credit, right? And anyway, that was, it's pretty hard to, like, top that. I mean, there hasn't been another in history in a World Series of a walk-off home run

that brought a team from behind, I don't think. Is there sense? No. And so that was, but, you know, if you want to go back to 92, another big home run for the Blue Jays was Alomar's against Eckersley. Absolutely. And that was a huge home run. And that kind of gets overlooked, but that was a huge one too.

And 92, yeah, that was huge. That made a difference. And, you know, they might not have made the 92 World Series without that. Right. And then you want to go to the series itself. I think Ed Sprague's pinch hit home run was big. That was a big one too. I guess if you're doing like best, biggest home runs in Blue Jays history,

those are the big three, I would think. Well, Jose Bautista, the backflip. Except I always feel like you better put an asterisk next to that. Oh, this team doesn't actually make the World Series. Oh, I see what you mean. But whereas that Alomar, so that this team doesn't actually make the World Series. Oh, I see what you mean. But, whereas that Alomar, so that Alomar Homer on its own, if the Jays don't get to the World Series

and win it, we probably don't talk about it at all. We don't talk about it like that. It's just a... The thing is about that one was that a lot of people don't know, I guess, but Eckersley used to tip a slider with a little glove tap.

And Cito, who is probably one of the best people I've ever – he acknowledges me one of the best people at spotting pitchers, tipping pitches. So they were on to that, you know. Anyway, I think I might have helped Alamo on that at bat. And anyway, I think I might have helped Alamoor on that at bat. That was, I remember when the Jays got David Cohn in 92, and the first thing Cito said to David was,

you've got your pitches, Dave. He said, what? Wow. FYI. And you know what? That's been my hobby ever since. I talked to Cito about that, and I can't do it as well as him because a lot of times I'm obviously looking down at the computer,

but that's one of my hobbies is predicting guys tipping pitches. Oh, interesting. And telegraphing pitches. Are you the man in white? You know what? I remember Fenway. Yeah. And I wasn't writing. I was just there as a spectator.

And I was sitting down and I was behind home plate. Or, yeah. Eduardo Rodriguez, I think it was. And he tipped his, in his delivery, he tipped his change up. It was a different arm slot and it was a little bit slower. And so I started calling. And I love, if anything I can do that I enjoy the most is aggravating Fenway Park fans, okay?

Because they're a bunch of know-it-alls. So I'd say, here comes a change-up. And then, bingo, there would go up on the board, change-up. And I did that a few times. And then I yelled out. I said, this one, he's telegraphed this more than any other of his change-ups. And Teoscar Hernandez thought the same. He jumped all over and hit it like about 400 feet.

And by then I was getting a few glowers from, which made me feel good. And if I were to go back to my cousin, Boston, who was the Harvard guy and lived in Stoughton, even when the Blue Jays got a team, he was a huge baseball fan. He was an incredible Red Sox fan. And if I wanted to find out anything about the Red Sox,

because he had a scientific mind, he devoured everything, right? He could repeat every stat, everything about the Red Sox. So I never had to read the papers. I just had to talk to John. So, okay, so obviously two World Series that you were covering. And in 2009, you leave the Globe and Mail. We mentioned that you covered baseball after that for MLB.com, the Canadian Press, Baseball America,

the Sport Exchange, and various other newspapers. But why did you leave in 2009? Is it just they offered you a package, or what happened? Okay, well, they took me off the baseball beat in 2006. They put me on the Soccer Pete Toronto FC. Sure. Which I really enjoyed that. I loved it.

Talk about first year team and everybody's cooperative. And I was lucky enough to get a lot of scoops because I, I knew how to work Mo Johnson and I knew when to phone him up. And I, you know, so I, I, I really enjoyed that year and I did it for know, so I really enjoyed that year,

and I did it for the first part of 08, but they wanted me to go on the desk because I had a shortage on the desk, and I got into a bit of a situation. The Guild thought I was being treated unfairly, and I was told by Lars it was ageism and so I won

the right to report again mixing it with some desk and then when they they offered a buyout I guess it was in January of 2009 so I took it, I wasn't going to. Two weeks, I mulled it over, right? I said, I didn't fight this hard to get back to reporting to then just walk out. And then one morning, I woke up and said, are you stupid?

Are you stupid? Because I mentioned Schultz earlier, who's going to be here tomorrow, because we record this thing called Every Spring a Parade Down Bay Street with Gare Joyce, and they're going to be here tomorrow afternoon. And he plays Red York, Schultz. Oh, yeah, yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, so we're going to record a fifth episode tomorrow, actually. Oh, great.

It's amazing. I get to play Ollie Thumbs, the producer. Okay, but what am I saying? Oh, Schultz, he says to me when he came on, he said he was hoping for an opportunity for bios, because I guess they'd have these meetings and announce that we're going to offer whatever. And he said when they announced they were offering bios,

he had to like bite his lip so that he didn't like scream of excitement and start jumping up and down because he was just really waiting for a bio to offer. And it came and he took it and he's been happy ever since there. Well, I'll tell you, my situation is a little different because, I'll tell you what. Yeah. In 65, when I turned 65, remember they had done away with compulsory retirement. So I was staying up myself and Michael Velpe, who was a columnist and reporter at the, at the globe. And so we were going to

work on beyond 65. And I don't think they liked that too much. So they said, Oh, you can do that, but you can't qualify for the benefits program anymore. So Michael and I don't think they like that too much. So they said, oh, Kay can do that, but she can't qualify for the benefits program anymore. So Michael and I fought it through the guild and they gave in and they said, okay, you can belong to the benefits program and still, well, you're working after 65. But, you know, I don't want to get into it because, but anyway, but that sums up the way the Globe and Mail has become. So I can see why Dave would celebrate.

You know what I mean? The Post Media just offered a bunch, so Steve Buffery's gone now. No longer working there. Steve Buffery's a terrific guy. I remember talking with John Kernahan. He used to work at the Spectator, Hamilton Spectator,

and we were talking about different people we knew, and the word that John came up with, Steve, was authentic. And I can't think of a better phrase and a better word to describe Beezer. He also spent the last few years covering TFC. Yeah, absolutely. And just

shout out to Liz Braun, not a sports writer, but she took a package after decades at the Sun, and she's going to drop by here for her exit interview, and we're going to talk about it. So Liz Braun coming back to Toronto Mic'd shortly. But Larry, we left enough for a sequel, I think, but you were absolutely incredible. Are the Blue Jays going to win the World Series this year?

Probably not, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. I think Toronto fans should be excited about this team. The one concern I might have is the bullpen leading up to Romano. But the thing is, it's different now. It's not like it used to be. So look what Alex did with the Braves. If you make a couple of the key trades at midseason, you don't have to win your division anymore.

And we've shown that home field advantage isn't all it's cut up to be. And the Jays are good proof of that last year. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. It wouldn't surprise me, but I can think that there's other teams that I would pick ahead of them at this stage, that's all. But I think this is a good team and it's a fairly complete team and I think it's going to be a lot of fun for the fans. How was this for you? You had a good time making your Toronto Mike debut?

I loved it. You know, I tend to wander sometimes, so I apologize if I didn't completely answer the question, like about Cecil Fielder. You know, the fact that he got over to Japan and got to play every day, because

he had the potential. Like, when he was in rookie ball, man, he had a ball so far, and that's what the Jays were attracted to him, and made the trade, right, he had a ball so far, and that's what the Jays were attracted to him, and made the trade, right? He had a ball so far, and they could see the potential there, and it just gave him a chance to play every day as what he needed. He wasn't going to get it in Toronto.

He was going to get it in Detroit. Did you ever see his son hitting at the Dome in practice? I remember his son on the charter flights. When his son was two years old, he looked like he was five. Prince was big. He was a big kid, and I did see him take batting practice. Wow. And I got another one for you.

When they got Fred McGriff in that trade, and mainly the big headliner was Dave Collins from the Yankees. Yeah. I remember Fred McGriff taking batting practice for the first time after the trade. And Dave Collins looked at me and says, Are you sure I wasn't the throw-in in the trade? And there's a story behind that trade, but maybe we should leave it for another time.

Well, that's up to you. I will say Dave Collins still holds the franchise record for stolen bases in a season with 60. Something Devon Wright and Alomar couldn't beat. Well, yeah, and I think that was in a time when, in the 70s and 80s, I think a lot of people stole a lot more bases. And I think some of them were stolen for the sake of stealing bases. I think what's come out is analytics has shown that Bill James started it. He started out, let's say we started with this thing.

He set out to prove that standalone bases were important, and he found that it was just the opposite. That you had to be successful a certain rate before they were valuable. That's how he became a sabermetrician. That's how it started. Love it. Is there any story that didn't get prompted for or didn't come out in this episode

that you're going to be on your way home saying, oh, I meant to tell this story or that story. This is like a moment here. I'm bringing down the closing theme because I realized there might be something

in the chamber there that you need to let into the wilderness here, Larry. This is your opportunity. Do you want to know the Fred McGriff story? Yeah, now let's do it. We have enough for the sequel without that one. want to know the Fred McGriff story? Yeah, now let's do it. We have enough for the sequel without that one.

Let's get the Fred McGriff story. Jay's had this guy I can't remember his name right now, but he had about 14 saves. He's a great guy. He's such a great guy. Why can't I remember his name right now? But anyway,

I remember him coming out of the dugout one day when he was still with the Jays. He says, where is everybody? He says, they're at the church. He says, oh, yeah, I always wanted to do that. He says, but they always have it on Sunday morning. Anyway, they traded him, and they got, but Steinbrenner wanted him so bad that, okay, they gave up Dave Collins. And then...

But Gillick always liked to get a throw in. And they had their eye on McGriff because they'd seen him get some mammoth home runs. Right. As an A-ball. I'll bet. And maybe he was even a rookie ball. But anyway, so Gillick held out, held out, held out. He knew Steinbrenner would get impatient and get involved in the talks.

So Steinbrenner got in and Gillick said, I have to have a minor leaguer. And he said, okay. It was Dale Murray was the pitcher. Okay. And he said, okay, here's the deal. He says, you name three minor leaguers and, or we'll name, how did this go now?

He said, name three minor leaguers who you want, and we'll tell you which one you can have. So the first one they named was Don Mattingly. They knew he wasn't going to give up. Next one was Dan Pasqua, who everybody thought was going to be a great hitter. People would say that the ball made a different sound when it hit his bat. But the guy they really wanted was Fred. Well, they would have taken Madden, obviously.

Obviously. But then they named Fred McGriff. Steinberg never heard of Fred McGriff because he was so far down in the system. Right. That's how they got him. Wow. And, yeah, when I...

Then I have a follow-up question. When I called, when they made the trade, I called Fred McGriff's home in Tampa, and his mother says, Fred, he's not home right now uh he's at work he's worked i think it was a public store it's one of those big chain stores he says but if you call back tomorrow at seven in the morning you know he says that's kind of early he's like don't worry he'll answer so i phoned him at seven

in the morning he answered wow okay quick question here before we uh before we say goodbye here uh i'm a big george bell fan as mentioned and i was always told and you're gonna confirm if this is true or not bobby cox liked to play dave collins in left field uh and and they platoon them at first yeah and then pat gillick wanted george Bell to get playing time and the manager, Bobby Cox, would play Dave Collins. So Pat Gillick traded

Dave Collins just so Bobby Cox would have to play George Bell. This is something I was told. Any truth to that? Does it sound plausible at least? Don't forget they needed a closer and they got Bill Cottle. Right, well, yeah.

Who got referenced? And they also traded Alfredo Griffin because they had Tony Fernandez coming up. Right, right. Embarrassment of riches there. All right, Larry, I think we kept enough for the sequel here, but what a debut, man.

Do you want to know how long we went? No. I enjoyed every minute of it. It would shock you, but to me it wasn't long enough. I just hope I didn't bore anybody. No, are you kidding me? All that matters is me, Larry, and I was enthralled. And that

brings us to the end of our 1,231st show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Okay, Larry, how do we follow you? Is there any social media presence for you or a website you want us to go to? Some of those stories from Reuters you see in advance as a preview of Leafs, Raptors, or Blue Jays games are mine.

Okay. Globe uses them quite a bit. Isn't that ironic? That's funny. And also, they use our previews. If you go into scoreboards, say, of the New York Times, they have a scoreboard section there. So you go into the games, and the previews are field-level media.

So some of those are mine. Love it. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. I'll be recording live from the GLB Brew Pub on Thursday evening. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Moneris is at Moneris. Season four of Yes, We Are Open is now available. Al Grego hosts, and yes, he's an award winner.

My Recycle My Electronics are at EPRA underscore Canada, and everybody can go to recyclemyelectronics.ca to find out where they can drop off their antiquated old tech. Don't throw that into the garbage. We don't want it in the landfill. Go to recyclemyelectronics.ca. The Moment Lab. They're at The Moment Lab.

Welcome aboard, guys. And Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. See you all Thursday when my guest is Edward Keenan from the Toronto Star. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't stay today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. Cause everything is rosy and green Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day But I wonder who, yeah, I wonder who

Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of green Cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true, how about you? I'm picking up trash and then putting down ropes and they're broken in stocks, the class struggle explodes and I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am

But who gives a damn? Because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray. Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you

Yeah, you know that's true Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine

And it won't go away Because everything is rosy now, everything is rosy, yeah. Everything is rosy and gray, yeah. Thank you.