Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Laurie Brown: Toronto Mike'd #549

Episode Date: November 27, 2019

Mike chats with Laurie Brown about her years at The NewMusic, at MuchMusic, hosting the Pepsi Power Hour, working at CBC Television and hosting The Signal on CBC Radio 2 and her new Pondercast podcast.

Welcome to episode 549 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, StickerU.com, Brian Master from KW Realty, Capadia LLP CPAs, and Ridley Funeral Home. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me this week is a woman with both Chum City and CBC on her extensive resume. I can't wait to talk to Lori Brown.

Welcome, Lori. Hi, Mike. I feel like I know you because I've been watching you and listening to you for what feels like, not too long, but it feels like it's been a little bit. And it's great to finally meet you. It's great to meet you, too. You might regret saying that. We'll see how it goes. You might be like, well, I'll give you a, I'll give you an update a little further along. In 90 minutes, I'm going to ask you whether it was worth the drive. Okay. We'll see how it, but yeah, thanks for doing this. Did I, I, I didn't meet you, but were you

at that Christopher Ward Much Music reunion at reunion at the uh the royal was it yes you were there right yes i was yeah i was there because well because i i i had christopher ward on the show and i'm interested in that but ed conroy if you know that name ed is known better i think as retro ontario yes so he helped put put that on, so he gave me a ticket. And it was awesome. I met a lot of great people. I met Ziggy there and just a lot of cool, much music people. And I do remember I met Denise Donlan there,

and you were there, and that was fantastic. It was great for all of us because we were all, you know, rubbernecking, sitting in our seats saying, who else is here? Oh my God, look who it is. I haven't seen them in forever. So those kinds of events are really, are really fun because our worlds after much music, you know, went in a million different directions and not, there aren't that many situations where you will find us all together again. Maybe Christopher needs to write another book. You know, after he wrote Black Velvet, he said, what do I do next? And we'll do this.

And you were in this book, like you were interviewed for this book. And did you read this book? I dipped in and out of it. I don't think I read it completely, but I dipped in and out of it. And don't think I read it completely, but I dipped in and out of it. And what I loved about it, which I thought was amazing, that Christopher was able to find a way to make it look on paper like much music felt. That oral history style?

Well, it was the style of telling stories and real people just telling their thing. But it was also, it just wasn't, it wasn't written like a book. It was all put together in pieces and jauntily placed on the page to, you know, in a kind of like an old Batman TV series kind of way. It had that, it had that energy that Much had at the beginning. And we'll get into this, but I frequently talk to people who worked in the, I guess, during the Moses era, the Chum City era, and they talk about like a kinetic energy of movement. And I think that might be what you're referring to, the style of the book. It's just, it's always in motion, if that makes sense. Well, we were always in motion at Mudge

because nobody had an office. And it was very open plan and we were shooting everywhere. So you were finding yourself moving around constantly. And we were also all, I think about it now, like we were just like a litter of puppies, sort of in this playpen together and that's how it felt we were joyous and happy and tumbling all over each other and having a good time and i understand that uh also there was no budget like there was no money for anything so this forces

you to kind of be creative and maybe that so a lot of the stuff i look back at is like oh that was cool the way they do this and then you talk to the people who did they're like yeah we had to do it that way because we didn't have money to do it this other way like essentially it's almost like the the lack of money budget was created this like a interesting environment in this style yeah you know and that did two things i think it made it seem to the audience at home like it was handmade television, which meant that they were sort of part of the picture, too. Like say, oh, yeah, I could do that. And the other thing was that, you know, Moses said to me, we make Volkswagens here at Much Music. If you want to make Volvos or anything else, go to the CBC. We make Volkswagens. Which you eventually did. Which I eventually did. Because after a while, you get really tired of them saying there is no budget. There is no budget. You can run on that energy for quite a while. And then all all of a sudden you've had enough because your

brain is fried from coming up with ways to do interesting stuff for nothing no i can imagine there okay so we're gonna kind of keep it kind of chronological order i do a little bouncing around here but uh you know your career and music intertwine but I did a little reading. It seems like music's been in your blood since the get-go. Like you were born into, I guess, a musical family? Yeah, yeah. My dad, who is still with us at 94 years old. Oh, good for him. He is an amazing piano player, an amazing piano player, and his parents both played as well well so growing up for me there was always music in the house and there was always singing and actually my grandfather and my grandmother had a radio show of their own in Yarmouth Nova Scotia that they did from their

living room oh cool very simple similar to the podcast going to say, it's all come full circle here. I know, you know, a microphone in the middle of their living room. So I feel like this sort of music, this music background of mine, I'm very proud of my family background in music. Now, were you born in Nova Scotia or here? No, I was born here. My parents got married, met in Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. And then like many other people of that generation, they moved to Toronto to start their families and start their careers.

What can you tell me about The Crowd and History? was put together at City TV with a guy that I worked with in the film department, which is where I first started at City TV editing film, and a guitar player who worked in Master Control, and let's see, and my boyfriend at the time, and it grew out of just a band we put together for a city TV Christmas party. And the crowd in history did really warped covers of songs that you would know from all over the place. But we'd do like a punk cover of this or a reggae cover of that or like something that sounded like a musical. You know, take songs from musicals and turn them into rock songs. it like a musical you know take songs from musicals and turn them into rock songs so interesting see i thought maybe uh the crowd in history predated you working at chum city but no no it came right out of there but out of the early years like before i was on the new music

we were doing that beforehand so how so tell me then how do you end up uh working at chum city uh i was acting in toronto and i needed some kind of a flexible job and a very good friend of mine uh dennis saunders who worked at city he had his ear to the ground and he um said hey they're looking for someone in the film department and the film department was perfect because if I got an acting job, I could come in in the middle of the night and do what I needed to do. So that's how I got down to the basement at 99 Queen Street East. Right, right. Now, were you anything like when you were doing this acting,

like would I have seen you in The Littlest Hobo or anything? Like, are you going to get that? You could drop me off at the Edison Twins or something. I did a movie with Oliver Reed called Death Bite. And then they changed the title of it to something else. Anyways, I had a horrific death, which was fascinating. I did some CBC stuff. But probably what got the attention of people at City TV was when I was hired by Champagne Pictures

to do Corey Hart's video, Sunglasses at Night. I was wondering when that would come up. Which, by the way, this song is still a great jam. Even now, how many years later it sounds good in the headphones so i have a good story about that too i need all the stories so i can tell you that um two-time guest steve anthony i don't know if you heard of this guy steve anthony he uh he talks about being in the boy in the box video. Cause apparently he's in that because he claims he is the boy in the box. Like when he was working at Chome in Montreal,

that that's where Corey's from. And Corey would come see him at Chome and he would be in a box. And somehow, I don't know if Corey said it or something, said you're the boy in the box or something, and then goes and writes the boy in the box or whatever. So he's taking, he says he's the boy in the box and he's in the video, which kind of gives him credence there. But I would say boy in the Box or something and then goes and writes The Boy in the Box or whatever. He says he's the Boy in the Box and he's

in the video which kind of gives him credence there. But I would say Boy in the Box, whatever, Grey Jam, whatever, but nothing like Sunglasses at Night. This is a hit. This is a big deal. I need to hear anything and everything you can tell me about being in this video.

Well, it was like when my agent called me and said, there's an audition, but I don't have any idea what this is about. It's for a thing called a music video, and I don't even know where it gets played or how much money they're going to pay you or anything. And I said, okay, I'm up for it. So I went and did the audition and got the job,

So I went and did the audition and got the job, and I got paid $750 to spend the night at the Don Jail in Toronto to shoot that thing. And I remember at the time when Corey was shooting it, there was this air in around him and his handlers that they knew that they had a tiger by the tail with this song and there was big stuff going on at the time abc was wanting cory hart to be in some uh tv show oh sure because he's dreamy right he's a dreamboat he was total dreamboat and he still is and uh so i just remember they're feeling like there was a huge amount of anticipation

and pressure on cory but that they knew that this song was going to do great things and i probably heard it 7 000 times that night and by the end of it i was i was a convert okay that's what it takes to get sick of this song i was wondering because I'm on like 6,999 times. But okay, you could have, you know, they make a lot of videos for a lot of crappy songs and most of them are forgotten or whatever to time or if they get any airplay at all. And then what are the odds that this is the video you're in

and one of the most iconic, definitely of the 80s, most iconic Canadian videos of the 80s most iconic canadian videos of the 80s i would say this is i'm impressed here forget all the rest of the resume you can throw out the rest forget the cbc nonsense it is the perfect trivia question this is my my life as a trivia question is this one who was the girl in cory hart's sunglasses at night. Awesome. Okay, so you do this, which gets, you know, Much Music. And timelines though, like, okay, so Much Music, 84? When does Much Music launch? Do you remember this answer to that trivia question? I think it was about 1984. I started at City in 1980. But I think it was 1984.

Because you were on the new music. Well, you're in the new... Okay, what are you doing at the video department? I should pay attention. Okay. Okay. So, you're in the video for sunglasses at night. I feel like putting on my sunglasses, how inspired I am by this video.

for Sunglasses at Night. I feel like putting on my sunglasses, how inspired I am by this video. And they decide, hey, maybe there's an on-air future for this employee. Like, how does that work? I think Daniel Richler at the time was taking over the role as producer

for the new music. And he was looking for a co-host. And like a lot of things that happened in City and at Much, they just put their head up and look around and say, who's here? Who can do it? Right.

And somebody said to him, you should go down and talk to Laurie in the basement because she's acting in front of the camera. She's in a band. You've seen her in that video. There's some synchronicity going on here. So he came to me and my audition for the new music was to

interview Daniel Richler on camera, which I did. And I suppose you did a pretty good job. I guess I did. I guess it worked. Never interviewed anyone in my life, but like a lot of things in life, the most important thing is just deciding to

when you see an opportunity, just to go for it. It doesn't matter if you've never done it before in your life. It's just, yeah, I can do that. Let's give it a go. And I'm learning like 90% of it is being there. Like you were there to be in that position. Like, you know. Luck.

Luck. Can we talk about how much luck has anything to do with a career? How much? Wait, to do with a career? How much? What is it? 90% luck and then 10%? Laurie takes it over into the end zone, I guess, for the touchdown. Yeah, I think it's a combination of hard work, but luck plays a huge role. At the New Music.

Okay, so you're there from 85 to 90. Daniel Richler is your co-host. Who preceded you? Jeannie Becker and J.D. Roberts did the show before that. Daniel then came on and only did the show for was it a year or two years?

And then he went over to CBC and then Denise Dolan came in. So I had worked with both Daniel and Denise doing the new music. I haven't met Daniel, but I have, like, Denise has been on this show. And like yourself, like multi-talented, bright person. And we'll come back to her later once we kind of get you more into the Chum City years here.

But you're, and of course, okay, you mentioned J.D. Roberts. What's he up to now? His career went nowhere. He's, I haven't heard anything about J.D. Roberts. Oh my God, a very authoritative sounding voice. And you know, right from the very beginnings, even when he was at New Music and Much Music, he was dying to get to news,

just dying to get to news. So it was so great when he did move to news and when he did move to the States. He has that typical great TV anchor sound look. And I'm very pleased for him that he ended up where he wanted to be. But he couldn't be JD anymore. He had to be John. He had to be John. To be a serious news person, you can't be JD. he had to be John I guess this is me to be a serious news person

you can't be JD so now I'm playing some Kate Bush because uh I'm curious about the interviews so and we'll get in I know you do like a concurrent deal where you're you're doing the new music which is chump city but you're also like a vJ, right? You're also, I'd say this is concurrent. I know. I remember the conversation I had with John Martin where they, he said to me, we want you to do much music too. I said, are you nuts? I'm like, I'm working so frigging hard right now. He says, it'll be nothing, Laurie. It'll be nothing. I said, what do you mean it'll be nothing? He said, if you do much music right, it means that you're absolutely being yourself. And the camera comes on and you just say what it is you want to say about music. All you need to be is a fan and curious. I said, okay, I can do that.

And so I started doing two shifts a week, sometimes three shifts a week and doing both things, which was fun. I love live TV. What was your relationship like with John Martin? And I ask this by prefacing that I was in the audience for your Much Music reunion that I talked about off the top. And so I heard Ziggy talk about John and that she had a difficult relationship with John Martin. I'm just wondering how it was for you. It was a little bit hard for me too. And it was only because he had the right attitude and I didn't.

I was so self-concerned about what was going on in my career and what I was doing. And I was worried about it. And he was just saying, it's rock and roll. Would you lighten up and just go for it and play? Like, play. That's what he wanted from people. And we were all taking ourselves, I was taking myself a little bit too seriously sometimes.

And to John's credit, he found a way to pull me around and make me realize it's not brain surgery and just lighten up and do it. And if you wanted a meeting with him, is it true you had to go across the street to the pub? It would happen a lot faster if you went across the street. I heard his phone calls would be directed there. Yeah.

Interesting, interesting. But that's the kind of guy that you want I heard his phone calls would be directed there. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. But that's the kind of guy that you want in charge of something like this. You didn't want someone who is sitting in an office and, you know, and making detailed appointments for four weeks from now. It worked way better. He was so good on his feet. He was so good at just seeing an opportunity and saying, run with it, go. He was great at that.

So let's, as Kate Bush winds down there, the new music, any memorable interviews from your new music days that you remember back with fondness? Well, I actually remember my first Kate Bush interview with with fondness or well i actually remember my first kate bush interview with extreme fondness and that it was one of those glamorous situations where they said you're going to fly to london and you're going to interview kate bush because she doesn't want to fly no she doesn't want to fly and you're going to go and you're going to go to her brother's house and you're going to interview her there. So Basil Young, cameraman and I, we get on the plane. Can I just say Master T's brother? Yes, you can say that.

Master T's brother. And we head over and we go directly from the airport at like seven o'clock in the morning or something when we fly in and we get to Kate's brother's house. And it's a beautiful big old stately pile, you know, somewhere out in the south of London, I think it was. And Kate comes in and she was very nervous about the interview. It was the only time that someone had actually asked for my questions beforehand, which ruffled my feathers a bit because it always feels like someone's going to try and exert control. Like they're going to say, no, I'm not answering this. Yeah, they'll nick something.

Yeah, right. That was not it at all. She wanted to know what I was going to ask so that she could think about it and provide more thoughtful answers. So I learned a lesson on that one. So we sat down, had an interview and then walked in the garden and talked with her brother. And it was a great, great day. Did you reserve the right to call an audible on the line of scrimmage? Like if she said something,

you could, you know, go in that direction, even though you hadn't provided these questions? There was nothing off. There was nothing that we weren't allowed to talk about. And I just, I just followed my curiosity. And if something comes up, I would just ask a secondary question. I didn't stick to the page. It became a conversation. But she found the process a little bit, she was nervous, a little nervous. Now, do you have any terrible, i mean i don't know a bad interview experience on the new music you want to oh shout out that's what the crowd's listening for let me hear the uh the bad times let's see there was because i hosted the pepsi power hour there were there were some moments that really burned my butt um and in fact on twitter somebody

mentioned when you posted that you were going to have me here on the show they said oh there's this interview that she does uh with slash and i can't remember the other guy's name is it duff duff mckagan um from guns and roses and it and I was taking them to task about an album cover that was filled with rape imagery. Oh, this is Mad Dog. Okay, so Mad Dog hosts the Afternoon Drive show on 1010. Oh, he was the one that posted that. Mad Dog is also an FOTM and if this goes well, you'll be an FOTM as well.

Friend of Toronto Mike here. So let me play that clip because I remember, yeah, I do remember this tweet and I loaded it up because you know i do my homework here so let's listen and then we'll talk about it with this sudden amount of attention from the press were you surprised by the kind of reaction you got from your first album cover how it came about it was was Axl, it was a joke. Axl brought this postcard with that on it by this painter Robert Williams. And we didn't really want to hassle over album cover.

It wasn't like we wanted to get our picture on the cover of the album so you could see yourself on the cover. We just didn't want to hassle over it. It's like, okay, we're all laughing, you know? Fine. Record cover. Let's go. Let's get it over with. And personally, I mean, myself, I don't think any of us

saw anything wrong with it. Wasn't that the reason that you put that on the front cover? Was to get some shock value out of it? Not to sound stupid or naive or whatever or close-minded, we didn't see any rape thing going on. It was like exactly what he said, it was a robot offender getting robbed, you know, and she got knocked against the fence, you know. Her bra fell off, what?

With her panties around her ankles, I would say definitely that is rape imagery. No. Okay, all right, fine. It was about, we were generally promoting rape. Yeah. I mean, if you think we're generally promoting rape, you know. I mean, come on. We, you know, for somebody to see it like that,

I could easily get on you for seeing it as rape. Where, you know, approval is rape, you know? Where do you think it is? Where do you it as a rape? Where, you know, prove it was rape? You know? Where do you think it was rape? That was bad. That was bad. That was bad. It drove me nuts. Like, it just drove me nuts. And what was really amazing about as soon as the cameras were off at that point, Slash threw up all over the floor.

Oh, no. He was so hungover. He was shaking. He was so hungover. He was shaking. He was so hungover and so not into it, man. So not into it. But I felt like I was someone who, I was put in this position, and if I, I had to say stuff about this. And that's actually why John Martin wanted me in that role.

He wanted someone to take these people on. Right. And I mean, the poor kids, you know, they, I don't think they did any of that on purpose. It's the bigger culture of the time. And they were just, you know, swept up in it. But Jesus, Murphy, shit has to change. And that's what it meant to be the host of the pepsi power hour well i'm thinking okay so appetite for just i was a big fan of appetite for destruction

that was a great album and mr brownstone is on that album so give me a break but it was like 87 i believe 87 i think it comes out or whatever and i do remember distinctly because i bought the cassette and i remember opening it up and I, I remember those, those cartoons and stuff. And it was like, it felt like I remember it feeling like I had something dangerous in my hands.

Like, it's like, it just felt really like, I guess this was all part of the, uh, to self to sell to us teenagers or whatever, but it just felt like contraband or something like, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah, it just felt so out of it to me it just feels so out of sync right with what really is is people are thinking about and how they feel which happened in a lot of heavy metal you know a lot of the of the the their their personal codes um the way that they were talking, writing, singing. It was way out of the mainstream culture, right? It was quite extreme for a whole bunch of reasons, some of them really good and rebellious

ones and some of them not so good. Little trivia, and then actually I'm going to bring us back to the Power Hour because I love the Pepsi Power Hour. But do you know you are the third female VJ on Much Music in Much Music history? You're number three. Really? And I say that to see if you're able to name the first two.

Erica M. That's number two. For me. And this is, you talk about trivia questions in your sunglasses at night, but this is a trivia question that I toss out a lot because very few people get it. In fact, you might not even get it and you worked at much music very few people can name the first female vj um blonde see she was gone before i tuned in i don't even i think

she was blonde but i could catherine catherine something or other mclanahan yes so there's the answer to the trivia question because a lot of people think erica m is number one and you're number two i feel like that's uh out there but yeah so didn't last long uh catherine mclanahan did not last long but she uh she was the first female vj on interesting much music there. So you're doing new music, which is, I'm guessing, heavily edited before it airs. Right. It is produced television for sure.

And then you're doing much music, which is more live to air. It's in the moment or whatever. Do you have like a preference? Like is, is there maybe compare and contrast the two different interview styles when you're talking to rock stars? Particularly in interview styles, I find the live interview is more energized on both of our ends.

The person being interviewed, they know it's live and they are in a performing, mostly are in a performing frame of mind. And so am I. So the energy is up higher, and you can tend to get some really interesting things happening. When it is produced, and you know that it's not going live, it in some ways makes my job easier as an interviewer, because I've got the luxury of time. I can take my time to get to a sensitive topic. I can work around it and I can allow myself to go off on tangents that in a live interview where I've got eight to 10 minutes, I can't really do. So I like doing both. They both have pros to them and they both have cons to them. Now, okay, so in the longer form, like new music style or whatever,

how important is it to build rapport with your subject? Because I'm guessing when you're on Much Music and somebody comes in, some rock star comes in and you do, I don't know, seven minutes with them live to air or something, you don't have any rapport at the get-go. It's all happening on the fly. But I feel like if you had a longer-form discussion that was going to be chopped up and edited and stuff,

you could build that rapport and then potentially extract more of what I would call real talk. Yeah, exactly. That's what you do. And I think every interview subject that comes in, particularly the major big stars, they're looking at you sideways because they never know what they're going to get. They don't big stars they're looking at you sideways because they

never know what they're going to get they don't know if they're going to get someone that's even heard the album that knows their work that has done any research and that that really cares about what they have to say um so on the longer form you'd find that the after a while they'd realize, okay, she's done her homework, she knows what my work is about, and she's curious. And my whole point of view coming in to do an interview was that I wanted to give an artist the best opportunity to explain and talk passionately about what they care about. And it was my role to figure that out. What is it that they really care about and to give them the opportunity to speak about it in the best way they could. In the VJ world, did you ever, was there ever times where you would be chatting with somebody whose work you had never heard like would that happen like oh yeah they you know you'd have a shift from 12 to 4 and at 11 27 they say oh my god you know who's coming in today i go no who's coming in and then it would be kind of like okay

you've just arrived and you brought a new video to show us and we don't know anything about it and here we go so there but the energy of that on live television is exciting and so that was your drug of choice because uh i know others that much means i get a different drug of choice i understand okay so i should i all i produce a podcast for peter gross and john gallagher oh my goodness called gallagher and gross save the world That happens here. Right. I can't tell you.

And they've both also been multiple time guests on my show. Like I've heard more stories. I feel like I worked at City TV. Yeah, I bet you do. I feel like I was there. And they're very, and of course I've done, you know, a couple of Steve Anthony as well. And we've had similar discussions.

But like I have heard about all the cocaine consumed by both of these gentlemen uh all three of those people but Gallagher, Gross, Steve Anthony they're very they're all three forthcoming about their you know they're all three clean and sober now when it comes to cocaine but uh they did a lot of it in the 80s especially like it did you see a lot of cocaine like was there i envision mountains of cocaine all throughout the chum city building is that what it was like like in uh and say hello to my little friends or whatever just just everywhere blowing around like snow no i didn't i did not see it i honestly i did not see it the only time time I think that there was a sense that it was in the building was when we would be having a huge party,

whether it be some kind of like the Much Music Video Award or some big party. You had the sense that in certain offices, shit was going down. But you didn't partake. No, I wasn't into that. What's that white stuff on your nose? I joke with Laurie. No, I can't imagine trying to do that job high.

I can't imagine. I mean, live television, I can't imagine. It's hard enough when you're sober, right? The last shift that I ever had at Munch, they took me out for lunch beforehand, and I'd had a few drinks, and I was... Oh, this is the one where you sped in to take off your clothes. Yes, which was a lot of fun.

It was a lot of fun, and I'm so glad that my shift... I timed it perfectly. I didn't have to do anything i didn't have to take off well that story is not nearly as exciting as the john gallagher stories i've been hearing about but uh okay so let's go back to peter gross for a minute so i was talking to peter today because he's told stories about laurie brown like lovely the most positive stories you have nothing to fear he adores you and loved working with you. And he you know, he's told me about some projects you helped him with. Okay. So I

don't know what the chronological order is, but I'm going to play let me get this one going here because I don't know if you know this, but Peter Gross likes the ponies. He likes to bet on horsies. Horsies. I called it that to somebody and they laughed at me. They're not horsies. I'm like, because I have a three year old

And she calls them horsies So you're allowed to call them horsies Or ponies And I don't bet on them I just, they're pretty I like to see them, whatever Okay, so Just a little taste here

Okay, that voice I'm hearing That's you Wow I'm hearing. That's you. Wow. The legendary Butter Bumpin' the Eighth is the name of the show. And Peter Gross tells me he wrote this song called Opportunity Knocks. And this, I can't remember. He told me the name of this guy and I can't remember it anymore. That was Michael Hayden. The Booze Brothers. It was an in-shop band that we had. That's the name, Michael Hayden. But I'm hoping if I play long enough, you'll come back

and then I'll boost it up again. So you remember recording Opportunity Knocks written by Peter Gross? You sound good on this thing. Yeah, it was fun. You sound good on this thing. I like the pulse. Yeah, it's fun. Let her go. Okay, I'm going to bring it back up.

There's a bit more Laurie here. And it's not the only project you were done with, Peter. Here you are. Here you are. All right, Butter Bump in the 8th. Boy, I haven't heard that in a long time. And then we move to baseball, correct? You got it. Okay. The man at the plate must be Jesse or George or Willie or Kelly or Trey or Witt. We all know just how far the shaker can hit.

Why is that manager starting to twitch? He brought in his lefty. Fernandez just switched. So hit the ball, Jesse. Hit the ball, George. Driving home, Mullinix. Driving home hard. With weak behind, home plate and key on the mound.

The other team's match don't make much of a sound. The Ballad of Jesse and George from 1986. Here you are. The Ballad of Jesse, the Ballad of George, our picture-throat babies, our lead-up men's scores, and Diamond, Jim Clancy, and even Derek Steele. A great fall that hinky and Ike Gordon-René. I'm getting a Fairytale of New York vibe off this duet.

Very, very good. Sonny and Cher. That's right. That's right. So what kind of guy was, tell me, because now that I'm working with him, what kind of guy was Peter Gross? He moved through that building like a hurricane.

He was so, so much fun and bouncy and just, he was such a big personality. Such a big personality. He was a lot of fun. It was characters like that that really made the building, gave the building the personality that it had. The way they explained it to me is that Moses liked personalities. So Moses, you know, and there's some famous story, and I'm not sure how accurate it is,

about Peter Gross was like driving a cab, and that's how Moses met him. He was driving a cab or something, and then he liked... That could make total sense. Because he just wanted real people in front of the camera. That's who he wanted.

How J.D. Roberts got in there, I kind of don't even know, because J.D. had that look of, you know, the typical sort of TV host thing. It was, yeah, Peter was a perfect example of the city Moses ethic on TV. The world according

to Gross. But it's too big, of course, Peter's two biggest hits have Laurie Brown on vocals so well done well done um here i'll save moses here let me give you some gifts because you came all this way and on a rainy rainy wednesday yes where will i begin oh let me begin by asking you uh how it worked at the chum city building like we all know that like the much music people in the city tv people would like cross paths and stuff. Yeah.

Right? In 99 East, Queen Street East, and then you move to 299 Queen Street West, of course. But what about, like, people working at the Chum radio stations? Like, that's a whole different location. Whole different location. We really didn't have much to do with them. have much to do with them. At one point,

when the Chum City merge happened, that was when some of that management came down to 299 Queen West. But for a while, I think I remember it was still up at the old radio building. So it was like

the parents weren't home. Right. I know. They tore that damn building down. I guess. They saved the sign. That's what we do in the city. Yeah, the sign was great.

Yeah, just save a neon sign and get rid of everything else. We saved the signs. Okay, so working at Chum FM was a gentleman named Brian Master. This is, when was he at Chum? I think that's 70s. Anyway, Brian Master was at Chum FM before, I guess, Chum City stuff. But I mentioned this because the last episode, well, the second last episode of Toronto Mic'd

was Brian Master coming in to kick out the jams. That's when guests return and we play and discuss their 10 favorite songs of all time. All right. People love it. You should do it one day. It would be amazing to have you kick out the jams. And we talked about, you know,

Brian, not only is he on the radio today, and he's been on the radio for 50 years. Wow. Since 1969, which is pretty remarkable. He's also a salesperson with Keller Williams Realty Solutions Brokerage. And Brian urges everybody to send him an email at letsgetyouhomeatkw.com. Letsgetyouhomeatkw.com. He'd be happy to add you to his uh snail mailing list he sends out a newsletter

every month with very valuable interesting information no like sales pitches or hard sell things or anything it's actually i have one nearby here but it's like tips for the holidays and parties and heating your home and all these different like best practices education material things and you should get on that list. So email Brian. I want to thank Great Lakes Brewery for being a fantastic partner for years now. They have sent over a six-pack of fresh craft beer for Laurie Brown. You're taking that home with you. Right on.

Just in time for the holidays. And they're fiercely independent, so it's always great to promote the fiercely independent craft breweries in the city but again tastiest beer you'll ever have I was talking to Dave Perkins Dave Hodge had an event so it was called The Reporters they all got together with Brendan Shanahan a few days ago and I was there and I bumped

into Dave Perkins who got a six pack when he was on the show Dave Perkins wrote about baseball for the Toronto Star forever and he told me since I gave him that six pack of Great Lakes that's the only beer he'll drink now and Perkins wrote about baseball for the Toronto Star forever. And he told me since I gave him that six pack of Great Lakes, that's the only beer he'll drink now. Wow. And Perkins likes his beer.

So there's an endorsement for you. So that goes home with you. On December 7th at noon, we're having TMLX5. It's the fifth Toronto Mic Listener Experience. It's taking place at Palmas Kitchen, which is in Mississauga near Mavis and Burnhamthorpe. So Palma's going to give everybody who comes to this event, because everyone is invited, everybody

gets free, fresh pasta from Palma Pasta if you come to TMLX 5. There's free beer from Great Lakes as well. But I have in my freezer right now, I feel like Monty Hall here, there is a frozen lasagna for you in my freezer that goes home with you. Oh, thank you. Which you can enjoy.

Thank you. Courtesy of Palma Pasta. Here's some stickers for you from Sticker You. Sticker You. Toronto Mike sticker goes right on your car. I'll do it for you. Don't worry. I'll just slap it on the back of that car.

That's what I'm going to start doing with guests. We'll do a photo and then I'll slap it. You need to give these to your neighbor. And while I'm in here and he goes out and puts it on the car, unbeknownst to them, get her done, get her done, Mike. I'm going to make that happen. That would be great. Imagine you get in your car, and who put this Toronto Mike sticker?

And you're trying to get it off your bumper, and it's like, no, it's there for all eternity. So there is gifts also from StickerU for people who come to TMLX5. They made up these nice magnet badges. So thank you, Sticker you sticker you okay now i'm going to play the promo i want to talk a little bit more i know we did talk about that guns and roses uh interview on the pepsi power hour but here is i believe this is the intro let me make sure music all the time this is the nation's music station much music music

it's really a visual thing though it really sucks actually I was thinking oh it's more visual than audio but let's hear a little bit anyway You know, when I hear music like this, I think of you. I'm not sure how you ended up with this gig here. You're going to have to explain to me. Here, I'll bring it down. How the hell do you get the Pepsi Power Hour gig? I go in. John Martin wants to see me.

So I go to the bar across the street. I said, John, you wanted to see me? What's going on? He said, we want you to host the Pepsi Power Hour. And I said, oh, come off it. He said, no, no, no. This is not my musical jam. This is not my musical jam. This is not my favorite stuff.

What was your musical jam at the time? I was into Kate Bush and I was into Bowie and I was into Peter Gabriel. I was into really sort of the art rock scene. No Slayer? No, there was no Yngwie J. Malmsteen. Yeah, Yngwie Malmsteen. Fantastic, right? Yes.

And I said, why would you... Do you want to hear a bit of your year? I can't believe you're here. And the band, Uncle Sam, are going to be dropping by. In fact, I know they're going to be dropping by because I can see them from where I'm sitting. They're going to be up next. Also, we've got an Ozzy Osbourne giveaway

with a special picture CD of the single. But right now we've got some poison with Nothing But a Good Time, and these boys are having Nothing But a Good Time on tour. They're traveling with two tour buses, six trucks, and also 150,000 watts of lighting, and also a miniature inflatable pool, which at every gig they inflate

and then fill with mud, oil, and beer, and put any of their backstage guests who are not deemed to be having nothing but a good time into that pool. Right? They know how to have a good time on the road. So we're going to have nothing but a good time from Poison. But first of all, Brittany Fox, a band out of Philadelphia, they came around about two and a half years ago to sign a major deal with CBS in 86. Unfortunately, right after that, their drummer Tony Destra, yeah, was killed

in a car accident. So they got Johnny D. You might remember him, ex of Wasted. He's on drums there now. So we've got Brittany Fox up first. This is Long Way Love on the Pepsi Power Hour. Who would forget Wasted? Come on, I remember Wasted. I don't remember Wasted. Okay, so sorry to interrupt you,

but I wanted to hear a little Laurie Brown there. It's funny to hear my voice. My voice has dropped so much since that time. It's amazing. Yeah, but I'm waiting for that to happen to me. I keep hoping it might happen. I'm like, one day if I just... Maybe once you start to shave, Mike.

Imagine if my voice would drop. you start to shave mike imagine my voice would drop like i feel i would never shut up if my voice dropped so it's better for everybody it stays like this okay please continue the origin story was taking place and then i rudely interrupted you and he wanted me to to introduce and to host the pepsi power i said no, I'm busy enough, and B, it's not my natural music that I love. And so I don't know if I can pull it off for the fans. And I don't want to fake it, because the thing about the Power Hour fans, they only got to hear their music one hour every week. And there was a huge emphasis on it.

And they needed somebody in there to do them proud, who knew their shit and who loved the music. And they needed somebody in there to do them proud, who knew their shit, and who loved the music. And I was not that person. But John said, this is what we do. We put disparate things together. We put unlikely people together and see what happens. He said, you got issues with album covers and lyrics and the way that they're, or their behavior, bring them up on it. Come on, do it. This is why we want to do it. And I could see the appeal of that. And I understood that that's what the station is about. So I said, I will take it on. And I had a great producer, Terry Walsh,

and we navigated the heavy metal seas together. And in fact, it was a lot of fun. And I got a glimpse into that world and who those guys were, mostly guys. And I think it was good. I mean, I still get free cab rides in the city from cab drivers who will just say, Pepsi Power Hour, man. Wow.

No charge. And my son does in Peterborough as well. When he was living in Peterborough a couple years ago, he said, Mom, I got a free ride the other night because I said, yeah, my mom's Laurie Brown. That's a pretty sweet deal right there. I envision like, you know, in School of Rock, when Jack Black is teaching about like, oh, this band comes from this band or whatever. Like, did you get a crash course in this whole?

Because this is a pretty, like you said, the fans of this genre go deep into it and they really know and they kind of geek out in it. And you can't really, I can't imagine it would be easy to fake it. Like, did you get a crash course? No, I didn't. I just started on my own.

And where I can always rely on my love of music. So what I went to first was I went to how they were playing. And there's a lot of incredible players in heavy metal music. Like the technique that they've got is unbelievable. So I dove into that first. And I found the really great players. And I, if I could talk to them about music and technique and rehearsing and, you know, styles and everything, if I could talk to them about pure music, we were on the same page.

So that's where I started. Or even like influences or whatever. Or even like influences or whatever. Yes. Right. Yeah. So I kind of learned from there. But yeah, you got to start with a love of music. And that I didn't have to fake.

Is there any like band from the Pepsi Power Hour era that you said, oh, I actually like this. And here we are in 2019 where you'll still like put it on or rock out to it. Like did you discover anything doing that show that actually stuck? Let me think about that. You still go and drive back home and you're going to put on something like Joe Satriani or something. You know, I think the people that I had the most respect for were Metallica. I had a lot of respect for them because I could uh i could feel something else going on there there was a lot of thinking going on in that band too and i think i really i really they really appealed

to me the fact as well that they wouldn't do a music video for a long time right uh the first one i remember is one but i'm sure they had something before one but one's like because i wasn't a big metallica guy but one made its way into like regular much music rotation, I think, but I don't know. Yeah, it was a big deal when they finally put out a music video. It was a big deal.

So I would say it would be Metallica. I met the guys up in Tuktoyaktuk in the north when they were doing the Polar Ice concert. Oh yeah. The furthest north rock concert ever with Courtney Love was there with Hole and Metallica and who else was it? Moist was there. Got to get some CanCon in there, sure. A little Moist there.

Yeah, but I remember meeting the guys then and they were pretty interesting. Okay, one, I actually joked on Twitter that I'll do the whole 90 minutes about the pepsi power hour which was just a joke oh and somebody responded to that with a very like it was something about like who was hotter ask her who was hotter her or erica m and i saw erica pounced on it did she and it was like something about how maybe we should celebrate the their broadcasting abilities and not and not focus on how people look

or something like call them out for like his bullshit or whatever. Anyway, I thought that was pretty cool here. But oh yeah, on that note, okay, I'm all over the place. But I just remembered there's a project going on with former VJs, like a syndicated show that they're trying to sell. I heard about it. Steve Anthony is sort of spearheading that thing. And I know some of the names

and I don't remember all the names involved, but for sure Steve Anthony is involved and forheading that thing. And I know some of the names, and I don't remember all the names involved, but for sure Steve Anthony is involved, and for sure Erica M is involved, and I think Master T is involved. Maybe Christopher Ward is involved. Yes, I think Christopher is involved as well. Yeah, I haven't heard anything more about it. Have they tried to get some Laurie Brown action in there? No, no, they haven't come to me, and we'll see what happens.

I'm going to see Christopher in January. We'll see what happens i'm gonna see christopher in january we'll see you'll get an i'll get an update from him man okay get an update report back to toronto mic chair we need to know what's going on i did hear i saw on facebook i think erica wrote something about how they haven't no station in toronto has bought it yet yeah and i'm feeling like a lot of this has to do with the fact that much music is owned by bell media and bell media doesn't necessarily want they are not going to buy it i don't think because it would be like i don't think Much Music is owned by Bell Media. And Bell Media doesn't necessarily, they are not going to buy it, I don't think, because it would be like,

I don't think they would be down with the Much Music. I feel like they might not be down with the Much Music nostalgia. And no one else would buy it because it's a Bell Media thing. Like, I feel like that's the problem, is that, you know, it's just such a weird media landscape I live in and you work in. You know, I think what people are pining for more than to actually hear from us old vjs is they are pining for a time when there was a place where you could just hang out with other people who loved music and that's what they talked about

and there were long form interviews. And it was just fans talking to artists and talking to other fans. And that vibe, I think that that's what I'm even nostalgic for, that there isn't a sort of music service right now that can do that for people. Because when you think of all the kids growing up all across the country, that this was their way into the fantastic world of rock and roll and what it meant to be a teenager and a young adult and, you know, starting to think about sex and girls and drinking and all that kind of stuff. It was very, like it kept some kids going in small towns across the country yeah no doubt we and i have i'll have someone on like a moberg for example and we'll come in and we'll talk about uh you know pursuit of happiness is moberg and we'll talk about you know what when a band got their like they had i'm an adult now got heavy rotation and how like it's like instantly this

entire country is digging the pursuit of happiness. Like, it's just the whole country was tuning in and getting their music from this single source. Like, that was everything is getting that video played nationally. All right, a little bit, tiny bit more Pepsi. I promise you, Lori, we're moving on. Lori Brown with you on the Pepsi Power Hour. I figured out what's going on here you see obviously uh paul and dinah have been to the exhibition like three or four times too many this year around and

they've they've got the movement in them and they just can't just quite keep still so i hope you're all not nauseous by the end of this show and i'm i'm not because i'm staying quite still but i don't know what it's like for you people and speaking of vintage metal having Lee Aaron with the metal queen we have a stone age power hour coming up on September the 10th we've got some never before seen footage we've got dazed and confused by Led Zeppelin and also all along the watchtower by Jimi Hendrix some footage some live stuff you've never seen before so if you want to see some real old stuff make sure you tune in on September the 10th. Coming up, we've got some David Lee Roth with Going Crazy

and also TNT, 10,000 Lovers in One. And first off, we've got some Wasp. Now, when Blackie Lawless was in the last time, he told me that if he wasn't in a heavy metal band, he'd probably be in jail because the release that he gets out of playing keeps him sane in the streets and if you talk to him absolutely normal the man's not normal on stage let's face it and

he hopes that the people watching the concerts get the same kind of release here's wasp with wild child on the pepsi power hour laura you effectively uh convinced me uh that you know what you're talking about like i'm listening to you thinking she knows her metal here. So you did a good job here. Thank you. Why do you decide to leave much music? I left in January of 90. I had a baby in April of 1989.

I had been a year previously, CBC had come to me and wanted me to come to the journal and be an arts reporter, in the same way that Daniel Richler had left the New Music a few years prior to that to do the same thing. And I said, no, I'm not ready. I don't want to go. But after the birth of my daughter, I was feeling like those last minute trips to Europe and the kind of late night work that I had to do was, I just had enough. I think it was time to move on and to try something different. And possibly only because I read another interview you did where you mentioned this, and I thought it a really really good point which is that the the target as it went more people had access to much music uh it became more about a younger a younger more a broad audience and maybe you wanted something more substantial to sink your teeth into possibly the service had changed quite a bit it had become much more corporate we were being

asked to do commercials and uh voice commercials and hold up product and things like that and beyond pepsi because i mean yeah well yeah beyond pepsi but you know originally much music was the sponsors were beer companies and where it was an older demographic and then we were understanding that the demographic was really young 12 to 16 kind of thing like it had moved really young and i thought this isn't where i need to be i'm uh speaking to kids that are that young is wasn't really what I wanted to do. So I wanted to speak to a more mainstream audience. I wanted to try to bring more people into the tent and explain to them why certain bits of art, music, whatever, are important.

And maybe, like Moses said there, maybe you didn't want to make Volkswagens anymore. Yes, I didn't. I was tired of the, you know, there's no budget, but see what you can pull off lori all right before uh you strip naked live on your last shift on music here uh i have to ask you but what was it like like what was your relationship like with moses um it was tentative it was we were sort sort of eyeing each other rather. I mean, I think that most people

were just a little bit defensive around Moses. I never had any issues with him, but I know that some people did, and some women did, and I was very careful with him, and I think he was very careful with me. So I think that it worked out quite well. He had asked me to host breakfast television before I went to CBC, and I said I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to be in that morning thing. Yeah, wake up at three or whatever the heck. I didn't want to do it. So

when I didn't do that for him, I think that he sort of looked the other way. And then that's when I said, okay, it's time to go to CBC. Are we talking with the breakfast television revelation there? Is this the launch of BT? Like, were you going to be a fan? No, I don't think it was. I think it was like, was it replacing someone?

I do know BT launched 30 years ago this September that just passed here because Anne Romer came over and we called up Steve Anthony and John Whaley and David Onley. Right on. So we had them all.

And Bud Pierce? Yeah. We called up Bud Pierce, too. Like we did a whole, we got everyone on the 30th anniversary. But you weren't, Moses didn't ask you to be a founding member. Just replace somebody maybe along the way. Yeah. But yeah, no, it was time to go 1990 all right so we're gonna get you to the cbc here but you said it was time to go and this is one of the world's worst segues but i do want to get serious for a moment

because i do want to tell people about this wonderful event that brad and the people at ridley funeral home are hosting it's called called Holidays and Hope Candlelight Service. And it's on December 4th at 7 p.m. at the Assembly Hall, which is like Lakeshore and Kipling. This is their annual free memorial service in honor of those loved ones who have passed away and cannot be with us this holiday season. So if you want more information on the Holidays and Hope Candlelight Service,

go to RidleyFuneralHome.com or call 416-259-3705. Okay, you mentioned CBC was trying to get you to go to the journal. And I guess eventually you just said okay and you end up at the journal. So what was it like doing that at CBC Television there? It was mind-blowing because all of a sudden I went from, you know, making Volkswagens as cheaply as possible to, okay, you're going to do a documentary, an arts documentary on Josephine Baker, a very famous jazz singer, dancer, black American.

Was she American? Anyways, she was a very big deal in France and spent most of her career in France. And they said to me, we want you to make the best documentary in the world about Josephine Baker. So what footage did you need? Do you need to buy footage? Okay, we buy the footage. What do you need? Like, you know, where do you need to need to buy footage okay we buy the footage what do you need like you know where do you need to go who do you like an actual budget oh it was like i died and and it was right at the tail end of the real sort of golden years of documentary

making at the cbc it was the last few years of the journal, which was their flagship documentary show. And to be able to learn the ropes, um, at that show was a really great, great thing for me. And how do you end up as host of on the arts? Uh, that was CBC news world, which I, I liked the name CBC news world, maybe because it's all I knew, but I don't love the new name. Like now it's CBCNN, which I don't, anyway. But that's another. Changes, changes, changes, changes. I know.

Stop changing things on me, please. But what was it like working, hosting on the arts? That felt great because the problem about being an arts reporter in a news organization is that you're always treated like the dessert. You're always treated like an extra thing. You're never really, you're always fighting for your stories because it's always seen as fluff. And that can get really tiring. So that would be the one issue I had with moving to CBC in the news department.

Once I got to News World and I was back on an art show. And it was all arts all the time. And it happened every week at the same time. And I could still do pieces with every, you know, whether it be dancers or painters or theater people or musicians or cover the waterfront, which I loved. Come over to the window, my little darling I'd like to try to read your palm. I used to think I was some kind of gypsy boy. Before I let you take me home. Now so long, Marilyn

It's time we began to laugh And cry And cry And laugh about it all again Can you please tell me about speaking with Leonard Cohen? Well, knowing you're going to interview Leonard Cohen, that just put the fear of God in me.

And this man was so smart. And the amount of work that he had created, like how do you research that? Like every album, every poetry book, everything that he had created, like how do you research that? Like every album, every poetry book, everything that he had ever done, I found it really overwhelming to figure out how to do that kind of artist justice in an interview.

But when you actually sit down in front of Leonard, he is, he was so present with you and he gave you absolutely all of his attention and he worked incredibly hard to, to make the interview what you wanted it to be. He, he was so generous. That's the word that I need to use. He was an absolutely generous man in an interview. So he would put you at ease. Would he put you at ease or no? Well, in his way, he'd be in his Buddhist way. There's not a lot of extraneous talk that's going on. He has a silent presence. He had a silent presence to him.

But he would be looking at you with an open expectant happy face and waiting for your next question um but it you bring your best game to the table in that kind of a situation yeah i'm thinking i'm feeling like now i'm getting second hand anxiety like i'm going to interview let it go and wish. But you would want to disappoint him, right? Exactly. Yeah. I had 20 minutes of Chuck D. Yes.

So Chuck D, I love Leonard Cohen. I feel what you feel there. But Chuck D is a bit of my Leonard Cohen there. Yes. And I do remember that whole feeling. Like, okay, you got 20 minutes. And I'm used to sitting down for 90 minutes with Steve Anthony or something like that and I'm like, you know, and there was someone else in the room

because he had a handler in the room and it was like, I do remember this feeling just before I pressed record, like something I hadn't felt in a long time. I guess it was nerves, but I just felt like, Mike, don't fuck this up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you won't, you get one

shot at this and this is Chuck D and you get 20 minutes so i'm listening to you talk about leonard cohen yeah and i didn't want to yeah i didn't want to embarrass myself in front of chuck d you know what i mean yeah and when you when you know about like an artist that you love so much has given you so much right that when you're across the table you want to try and give back to them and you want to show somehow in the way that you're talking to them that the amount of respect you have for them and then there's a fine line between being a fan boy or in your case a fan girl and uh like you know you want to be respectful of what they what they mean to you but at the same time you don't want to come off like uh with the chris

farley paul mccartney interview on Saturday Night Live. He's like, you like stuff. He's just a fanboying out or whatever. So you got to walk that line. And yeah, but Leonard Cohen. So how long did you get to talk to him for? I think the first time I interviewed him, I think we had about a 40 minute conversation. And then I went down to the old Matador club in Toronto, where they were shooting a video that night of,

it'll be good. It's gone now because, uh, uh, what is it about the last dance or something? I'll have to bring this down because what happens is that song stuck in your head and you can't think of anything else. That's what happens with the music in the background i know um and so then i spent some time when when he was shooting the video um and then a few years later i interviewed him again in los angeles and had an another crack at it which was really interesting this was after all his time at the monastery so it was a slightly different kind and a much and an older man and so i had two cracks at the can to me that sounds amazing 40 minutes like uh because you're hearing you hear big rock stars and stuff like you know and let her go on poet and everything but uh 40 minutes sounds like a long time you got to chat them up.

That was pretty typical in the CBC National because I was working for the National as well when I was working for News World. I was doing, my pieces would go back and forth. So that was pretty normal. We could command and ask for that kind of time with a major artist. You can do a real,

I think you could have a real conversation in 40 minutes. Like I'm impressed. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. And, and, and then the second time in LA,

uh, does he remember you? Like, is there a built in rapport and you can hit the ground running, so to speak? Yeah. Did it go better the second time because you had that first one under your belt or was it just different?

It was different. I would just say it's different i really noticed that with bowie because i'd interview him like about five times and it really felt like we were we would pick up where we'd left off the last time and he was unbelievable at remembering um past conversations and and so each conversation it seemed to get better and better and better because we knew each other a little more. Man, there's another, what a legend David Bowie was. I had Em Griner on this program just before, just like two weeks before Bowie passed, by the way, I think it was.

And she talked about going on tour. She's saying- Unbelievable. Yeah. And it's like, John Gallagher. I didn't even ask you about what you thought of John Gallagher. But did you get along with John Gallagher? You know, our paths...

Did you hardly ever cross paths? Right. I can imagine that. Really didn't. Really didn't. I don't think I've ever met him without him telling me the story about how he lit David Bowie's cigarette one day. And I think he tells that story every single time I see him. Like, hi, John.

Oh, yes, you lit David Bowie's cigarette. It's just one of those things, you know. And I suppose if I lit David Bowie's cigarette, maybe I would. You would remember it, too. I would never shut up about it either. But so Bowie, Bowie, good guy. Amazing. Like Leonard Cohen in that when you sit down and do an interview with him,

he is giving you all his attention, which feels so luxurious, I can't tell you. Okay, so these two musical geniuses are no longer with us. Is there a living legend that you've interviewed that, and maybe we'll put Kate Bush aside if we can, that even compares to those two guys from your perspective? Well, I guess probably as far as people that I respect as well, David Byrne is one of those people. I've always loved him and I've loved the big artistic mind that he has and how it bleeds over from music into theater and social culture and television and film and everything else. So I think he's one of those people that interviewing him over the years has been another great, great joy of mine. Okay, I want to get you to the signal. great, great joy of mine. Okay, I want to get you to the signal.

But here's a couple of quick hits and just really briefly. Like you wrote a book, Success Without College, Days and Nights in Rock and Roll TV. Yeah. And you wrote that while you were, I guess, while you were at the CBC? Yes.

Like my timeline's right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. It was, yeah, it came out in 94. And it was really about my time at City and Much and looking at the culture of television and the culture of rock and roll and how the two of them frequently don't go together very well, but when they do go together well, it's because, and I give a lot of credit to Moses and John Martin for finding out the way to make television that meant that it could exist in the same room as rock and roll. Right, and I suppose the new music was the way to figure that out, right? Yeah. Because it sort of created a bit of the mold of what would become much music.

Yeah. It really was the home of music journalism on television, I think. Very cool. Okay. And you were the, I don't even know what this means. You're going to tell me,

but you were one of the Canadian hosts of 2000 Today. What was, this is for New Year's. Tell me what this is, 2000 Today. I should remember this. Was that the millennium?

Yeah. Yeah. CBC did this huge thing. And it was bringing in the new millennium all over the world. And it was hosted by me and Peter Mansbridge. And it happened live, of course, in the atrium of the CBC building. But it went everywhere. Like we followed the new millennium all throughout the year whether it was australia or um somewhere you know japan

and then we moved watched it move across this was london 99 going into 2000 yes yes so we were on our feet in uh evening wear for fricking, I don't know, 14 hours or something like that. We celebrated the millennium about five different times or six different times. It's not as fun as it sounds. No, no,

it isn't. But it was, it was a great thing to be asked to do that. And, and my kids were pissed off though, because it meant that we couldn't be at home celebrating it anyways. I said, don't worry about it. Everyone's celebrating it in the wrong year anyways it's the next year it is the next yes the millennium yes you are you were one of the few people correct on that and that was

like a plot on seinfeld or whatever right no they do it's the wrong year i couldn't believe it i know i know that night i do know i where i was i was at the air canada center because i was at that it was it was a tragically hip concert that night. But I will say one of the most overrated any things we celebrate is that New Year's Eve thing. Like it just, I don't know, maybe I'm getting old. And it's just like, so the calendar changes. Who cares? I know it's all symbolic and whatever.

But I'd rather get a good night's sleep. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'd rather not wake up hungover on the first day of the year. That's right okay and and just before we get you to the signal on cbc radio 2 you hosted toronto biographies for rogers television and it was that great was that fun that was a really easy gig because i had a wonderful producer i'm not going to remember his name. Oh, Terrell edited it later. It was a long time ago. And he made my life very easy.

And he had these things all edited. And basically, I just walk in and do the camera bits. And then I'd run into people all over the city and say, that was fantastic interview you did with so-and-so. And I'd think, no, I'm afraid I was not in the room. I was purely host. That's funny. I would just take the credit and say, yes, it's afraid I was not in the room. I was purely host. That's funny. I would just take the credit and say, yes, it's all me.

It's all me. The Signal. Okay, tell me, how did The Signal come to be on CBC Radio 2? I had left CBC. I was feeling like On The Arts was going through a redesign, which was all very exciting. We actually were getting, we're getting a chance to redesign the show completely. And that was a dream come true for me. And then at the last

minute, they made, management made some changes, which meant that everything pretty much that we were deciding to do with the new show was out the window. And they wanted me to stand live in a club at 11 o'clock on a Friday and do, you know, live stuff. And I thought, you know what, I did that years ago on Much and on the new music. I'm not interested. So I quit. And I sat at home for a few years, frankly, and tried to figure out what was next. And I really didn't know. I was so burnt out. The weird thing is that the way that I got my groove back was I went back to the music that I loved

and I started again at the beginning, like from the monkeys, and then worked forward. You need to kick out the jams of me at some point because that's what this is, but, continue. That's what I did. I did the, I did. And I finally was, I got my love back of music. And then I thought, what I want to do. I want to do radio.

I want to do late night radio. And I would, I want to do it at CBC. Because once it's in your blood, it's in your blood. So I went to Mark Steinmetz at CBC Radio 2. And I said, I want to do a show. He said, oh, well, pitch it. Write it up and send it in. I go, no, I know how that goes.

I'm not doing that. I said, what if we do it this way? What if you pair me with a young producer that you want to give a shot at for a new show? Why don't you tell me who that person is? And the two of us will go away and we will see what we can come up with. And they said, okay. And they paired me with Andy Shepard and we had a chance to make a pilot and we, we just made it up as we went along. We've, we were incredibly musically in sync and, uh presented it to them. And they said, great, that's it. You've got the show. So if there's some advice here to people, it's if there's any way

that you can avoid the pitch process, do that. I mean, this is working from within inside the corporation, like not making it an outside thing coming in, but saying, here, give me a person. Let's work on it. Oh, very smart. Yeah. And I think that's why it worked. I think that's why it worked. And they were redesigning the whole network.

So it was just great timing, great luck. And Andy was a great, great producer. Andy was like the Trojan horse, if you will. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very good. Okay. was like the trojan horse if you were exactly yeah very good okay now if you were going to describe to somebody who had never heard the signal what the heck it was like how would you

describe it that is still the hardest thing and i was was looking at to people to say what what how do you describe the show late night radio is the best way to describe it. The ability to be on radio late at night when people are not driving, not working, not cooking, not doing work mostly. They're at home. They're off leash. It's a magic radio time. It's magic, magic, magic.

And we would play music that was out there. I would say to people, i would mention a couple names do you know though those person you know do you know owen pallett no do you know patrick watson no uh do you know bjork yes okay yes that's what the show is like we play that it was very hard to describe no i mean i like those kind of shows too and i'm thinking of danny elwell who was on this show and she and cfny forever she well not forever but for a while she had the alternative bedtime hour and she still does something she did something similar of jazz fm yes for years and stuff and even david marsden like you can still hear you can still hear him live on like a sunday night on his nyespirit.com app, which is something he curates,

which is pretty cool. But okay, you did The Signal for 10 years. That's a long run for a show, I think. And why did The Signal come to an end? I decided that 10 years was enough. They didn't want me to stop. But I said, that's enough. I've got other things that I want to do. And I don't think you're going to let me do them here. I had been pushing for more, like different things, like I want to do live shows, I want to go across the country, I want to try different things. And they were reticent to do that. And so I thought, okay, I'm leaving. I'm going to try something else. So the day that I left The Signal,

the next day I launched my podcast. PonderCast. Okay, so back to The Signal, then we'll get to PonderCast. How did fans of Brave New Waves respond to the signal? I think that they found that there was another home that they could go to. And we would get that. You say, wow, not since Brave New Waves has CBC done something, you know,

like this that I can listen to. And it was an alternative to all kinds of other radio. And like I say, partly it was time of night. And it was it collected a group of people that are were so tight, like they were a tribe of people. And we really really really benefited and used a lot you know facebook and twitter um and i would just say to people hey i'm going to be in ottawa on friday night where let's get together and play music and we'd take over a club and i'd bring tunes and i just do it live and i would do that in different places across the country and i started doing those live things unbeknownst to cbc who found out about it and said you can't do that i said what i'm just showing up at a club the fans

are putting it together they're finding the location they're getting it all set up i'm not doing it huh because okay when you close out your 10-year run the signal. It's three live shows. You do three live shows, right? Vancouver and Toronto and Montreal. The, uh, yes, the, that, yeah,

the, that's right. With, uh, again, Andy Shepard doing the sound design, I guess you call that. And,

uh, then you call it quits and then you launched the, uh, the Pondercast podcast. And tell me now, can you describe what Ponder cast is like so so we're only going back what tell me when ponder cast launches when did this launch uh september 2017 so i'm in my third season now okay now you're most of the people i'm saying i was going to say

all the people you're listening to are podcast listeners but some just go to the website and click play and they probably don't know how to subscribe to your podcast but the vast majority of people hearing our voice right now are podcast people right like this is the podcast audience so they're like they're literally they could pause it right now and then subscribe to ponder cast and then they could be back right now see how it all it all just happened okay it just happened so describe what what is ponder cast it is a way for me to stretch out from what I did on The Signal. And so if I have an idea or some kind of theme that I really want to riff on, I can go a lot longer.

I have a partner in Joshua Van Tassel, Toronto musician and producer, and he creates the most beautiful atmospheric music. And it's still, it's a late night thing. And we find that most of our listeners are like on the weekend and they're listening late at night. So don't listen to this when you're operating heavy machinery. Yeah, that could be a little bit of this. And so it's, we talk, I talk about everything.

Like I'll talk about death. I'll talk about chaos and complexity in the world today. I will talk about, what's the latest thing that's come out? Oh, I did, and I also do interviews. thing that's come out. Oh, I did. And I also do interviews, uh, Jen Grant, Donovan Woods, um, uh, Lee Fulbeck I'm doing coming up and, uh, Chili Gonzalez is coming up. And, um, so there's some interviews and then the other ones are these kind of flights of fancy and we kind of get out there and and like the signal there's a very tight-knit group of um ponder castor knots that's what we call them ponder castor not rolls off the tongue i like that yeah i've been going with fotms here but that like that's that's great now where where

do you where do you do the recording? Do you have a home? In my bedroom. I was going to say, you have a home studio? Yeah. It's not as sophisticated as yours. And who, well, you think, I'm glad you think this is sophisticated because you're from the CBC and yeah, okay. I like

this space, to be honest, but really much like the old MuchMusic days, I'm here out of necessity there's nowhere left in this house like there's six of us living here and there's like literally this spot is the last like unclaimed space in this home it's yours i'd be in the shed i think in the cold weather it would really suck i'd have to figure that out so that's why we're here but it's so it's working out i just i'm not allowed to have any more kids. I think that would, this might be the baby's room if that happens. So,

but, okay. So you record and you have a, what was the name of the gentleman doing the music? Joshua Van Tassel. Joshua. So, and,

and is Joshua, you would get your recording to Joshua and he pieces it together? We go back and forth. Sometimes I'll say, okay, this next one is about, well, this next one is about how, you know, freaking despair, how I feel about the climate emergency. And so he says, okay, so I'll record it, edit it, send it to him uh and then he will find the breaks where it feels

like there should be music and then he will create something that feels that way or we'll go the other way around he this episode that's coming out on friday is called breathing lessons and it's because he said to me i've been making these short pieces and they're really about breath and they're very breathy and stuff like that and i said okay i can uh i can write a podcast you guys sound like a good match we're a great match and then we have a third partner who lives in corner brick newfoundland who does everything design wise web wise technical wise um merch wise uh we've got a book coming out at Christmas, a creative journaling book. This whole trifecta, this whole assault.

It's like a coordinated assault on our senses here, and in a good way. It's great working with two partners, I can tell you that. So what is The Longest Night? The Longest Night is a gig that I'm doing at the Burdock on December 21st on the winter solstice. And it's got or cold or snow or darkness or light or Christmas or whatever. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to write a story that's an intro into that song. And we're all going to sit around together and drink beer and

deal with the winter solstice. Are you recording it for PonderCast? We are recording it. Whether I do it as a podcast episode, we'll have to see. I have to get permission from every one of the artists that's coming. But I'm very excited because Elizabeth Shepard is coming from Montreal. Charlotte Cornfield is going to be there. Michelle Willis, Map Of, is going to be there Michelle Willis Map Of is going to be there

who else the Henry's that's about all I can say at the moment but it's going to be there's going to be a lot of wonderful artists there do you have to be smart to enjoy PonderCast I need to ask can a dummy like me enjoy PonderCast?

You need to have a heart. Oh, I've been disqualified then. Okay, and how often do you drop a new episode of PonderCast? Every two weeks. And since 2017. Okay, and do you have plans in your mind to take it even further? It sounds like you're doing a whole bunch of stuff. There's live events.

There's the podcast. You've got three people in three different places. But is there a grandiose plan you want to let us in on? I think the grandiose plan is to keep doing things we've never done before. We did a major one at the Bentway on the Harvest Moon on September 14th, which was bringing a huge inflatable moon. Like, I mean huge. Putting it underneath the gardener.

I feel I know about this. Yeah. I've read about this. Well, that was a Pondercast. That was a Pondercast thing. Get out of here. This made its way to me. And there's a zeitgeist.

Okay. Yeah. And on that night, on the full moon night 8 000 people gathered under the bentway and uh we did two ponder cast sets and i got choir choir choir to perform and bernice to perform and richel coin from uh halifax who was on a headphone set after 11 o'clock so all the audience had wireless headphones on wow it was a blast and the weather was perfect and the full moon came up so we had two moons sounds like a it was amazing so that was a big show and my my next one like that is i'm i'm now working on a

live show about icebergs so um i'm working on how am I going to get a huge fucking iceberg in the middle of wherever it is I'm going to perform. I was envisioning like when they brought that rubber ducky, right? Remember the rubber ducky? Like the huge iceberg comes in and everybody wants a selfie with it or whatever. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm working on it. I look forward to the PonderCast Toronto Mic collaboration.

So you bring these great talented artists. And I'll tell you what. I'll bring Rusty and Lois DeLow and The Watchmen. And we'll just, you know. There you go. We'll do it up here. I have another gift for you, which I'll get for you because it's around the corner. I forgot to put it on the table.

But this is from the Electric City Candle Company for the holidays. Special needs adults have made these candles. And they sell these candles at electriccitycandles.com. All the proceeds go to their special needs hockey league. And right now they're really trying to raise proceeds this month to buy a used van so these special needs adults can travel to play others in these hockey games and tournaments. So if you would like to know more about the special needs hockey team, go to electriccityspecialneedshockey.com

and I'll give you that candle before you depart here, Laurie. And I gotta say, I thought I would do the whole 90 minutes on the Pepsi Power Hour and then I realized there's far too much meat on this bone. And you've got a very interesting and creative and wonderful career that we have to talk about. So good luck with PonderCast. I did the whole PonderCast, Toronto Mite collaboration really should happen just so I bring down the average IQ of the listenership. So we should do that. I don't think so.

I don't think so. But thanks so much for visiting here today. Hey, that was fun. That was fun. And I actually remembered something about my past, which you're very lucky. Oh, that's not normal. No, that's not normal. I remember nothing.

I extracted it. That's what I do. I extract those nuggets. And that brings us to the end of our 549th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Lori, is it at Lori Brown? Yep.

How convenient for you to score that Twitter handle. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. Brian Master, you write him at LetGetYouHome at kw.com. KapadiaLLP is at KapadiaLLP. And Ridley Funeral Home is at RidleyFH. See you all on Friday when my guest is Sportsnet's Kyle Bukakis. is coming up rosy and green yeah the wind is cold

but the snow wants me today and your smile is fine and it's just like mine and it won't go away cause everything is rosy and green well you've been under my skin

for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears