Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Live From the Inner Sanctum of The Red Room at The Concert Hall in Toronto's Historic Masonic Temple: Toronto Mike'd #1599

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

In this 1599th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike moderates a panel discussion in the inner sanctum of The Red Room at The Concert Hall in Toronto’s Historic Masonic Temple. The event was to support the launch of Gary Topp's new book He Highjacked My Brain and the panel included Gary Topp, Gary Cormier, Jeff Silverman, Colin Brunton and Ivar Hamilton. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, The Yes We Are Open podcast from Moneris and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

What up Miami? Toronto VK on the beat, uh huh, check I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm in Toronto like you wanna get the city love My city love me back for my city love I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love

I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm in Toronto like you wanna get the city love Welcome to episode 1599 of Toronto Miked! Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Season 7 of Yes We Are Open, an award winning podcast from Monaris, hosted by FOTM Al Greggo. Recycle My Electronics.ca, committing to our planet's future means properly recycling

our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. On December 1, 2024, I was invited to moderate a panel at the Red Room at the Masonic Temple. This panel was assembled by Derek Emerson to celebrate the launch of Gary Taub's new book, He Hijacked My Brain. Derek himself has been over for episode 1086 of Toronto Miked, in which we discussed his book Eve of Darkness, Heavy Metal in Toronto in the 1980s. And of course, Gary Top visited for epic episode 530 in which we discussed his role in weaving the cultural fabric of this city, including bringing the Ramones and the police to Canada for the very first time, and of course his other work with Gary Cormier as The Garys. Speaking of Gary Cormier, he, along with Jeff Silverman, Colin Brunton, and Ivor Hamilton,

were a part of this panel. Jeff and Colin visited for episodes 1583 and 1579 respectively, and Ivor has visited several times, but the deep dive episode would be his very first visit, episode 157 of Toronto Miked. Needless to say, I'm a big fan of everyone on this panel, and I was honored to moderate this panel discussion in front of a packed room at the concert hall. Here's the discussion as it happened on December 1, 2024. Thanks for coming this afternoon. You're indeed the A-list.

You're not the second show, you're the A-list. It's the perfect crowd to honor this book that Derek and his crew put together. They told me it would be really incredible and it really is. I pushed it to be about our community rather than the typical bio. After all, it was and still is a group of nonconformists that has has had a 50 year effect on Toronto and the country. I was just part of it. I lived the pain and boredom of my teenage high school. I wanted to counter the culture and culture.

We proved the powers to be, to be sure sighted, untalented and very wrong. All they cared about in music was the tour jacket. What the media and the entertainment industries and the majority of the population ignored has become the mainstream and worse. Hello Oasis and Stump Hub. Thank you Heather, Alex. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

Thanks. Thanks. And Andrew for enduring my insane lifestyle and mixed tapes. Three year olds listening to Jesus and Mary chain had an effect. Thank you to Derek and his crew friend. I don't have them all written down, but friend, Stephen, Sean, Simon, who else?

Vince. Who? Vince. Okay, pick. Noel. Noel, no I'm going to name them. Noel and Nadia, who put this thing together when we when we first started talking about this when we first started talking about this about two and a half

years ago we went and it said I don't want it to be like the thrash book or the post-punk I want it to be an art book that looks good and looks quite unique the printing that they the color stuff that they did, the printers say nobody ever wanted to do that, but they loved the fact that we were gonna do it. So thank you for that. You've got a good book if you've bought it. You did a killer job.

Thank you to Sean Kramer and Peter Fusco for allowing us into your special room here and for your super support. I look forward to Jonathan Richmond downstairs in March, always plugging a show. He's never played here before. To Ron Lee Tepper and the lipliners and Dave Howard who plays this evening. There's so many here today that I can't thank enough for getting the job done and darlings who passed way and the darlings who passed way passed away way too early like Dave Roberts Catherine Lalonde, Russ Wilson, Bruce Appleby, Ellen Barber many more but

Hard to Evan Levy It's hard. To Evan Levy, who mysteriously got deleted from the final draft. I'm 100% embarrassed by that, and I'm sorry. He originally had a big picture, so I don't know what happened. Thanks to Toronto Mike for moderating this Q&A. And finally, to Jeff,

Colin, Ivor, and Gary. Glorious times we've had together and decades of friendship. P.S. There were only two Garys in case that someone suggests otherwise. And 60 people total for the police during the two nights at the horseshoe. In closing, many years ago, a professor friend at York University related a story. His colleague had gone to visit his son somewhere off Vancouver Island. As the ferry approached the wharf, he noticed his son running towards him.

His son was stark naked, except for a pair of boots. He asked his son later, what made him do that to run naked in public? His answer, the original 99 cent Roxy. Here's the G spot on the payback. He hijacked my brain. So welcome to the exclusive Red Room, Mason's Inner Sanctum at the Masonic Temple. My original plan was I was gonna like announce the panel and you're gonna run out from the wings.

It was all exciting. I was gonna close with Gary Topp, but let me just introduce the panelists and we're gonna have a 60 minute conversation. And then we'll have like're going to have a 60-minute conversation. And then we'll have like, if you have a question or a comment for anyone on the panel, for Gary Taub or anyone else, at the end of this you just put up your hands. I'm going to run out to you and pass the mic. Feasty boy style. So let me introduce Gary Cormier. thanks for being here Gary. Jeff Silverman,

Ivor Hamilton. Colin Brunton. And of course the star of the show, the man we honor here today, Gary Taup. Just before we rock and roll we saw a documentary on the screen here just before this panel. Gary, have you ever seen that documentary before that we watched? Okay, so I noticed a couple of things. Jeff, you used to have hair? A lot of hair.

And Gary, you were rocking the hair in that documentary at the Roxy. The first hair wasn't cut for three years. Amazing. In fact, a close cousin of mine was getting married, and my parents wouldn't let me go unless I cut my hair, and I wouldn't cut my hair. Good for you, man.

It's kind of mean. And he actually wrote me tonight and said, good luck. So Gary, who put that together, the documentary? Derek. Derek Emerson. All right, Derek, great job, buddy. Woo! I was watching it and was thinking,

no, you don't need a panel discussion. It's all right there. But it was amazing. It's amazing to see that. So we're going to go back. Gary Topp, I want to start with you see that. So we're going to go back. Gary Taup, I want to start with you, and maybe before we get you to the Roxy, if you could share with us your origin story.

What made you worthy of this book, He Hijacked My Brain? How did you come to be the Gary Taup who would be running the Roxy? I don't know. But you were a big 1050 Chum fan right? Sorry? 1050 Chum this was... Well I mean as a kid I listened to Rodgers and Hammerstein Broadway musicals and you know rock and roll radio. I love Chum. I would say that Dave Mickey, Dave Marsden, was one of the major influences on my young life. Also, actually, Andrew Lug Oldham,

who managed the Rolling Stones in the earliest days, I studied the hell out of him, and I think I still carry his sort of promotion ideas and etiquette or whatever I don't know but I owe him a lot. I used to go to the Y at Bloor and Spadina to watch movies with my dad. Aside from the movies I loved, that there was this big screen in front with curtains and wings and all that. I always wanted to have one of those in my house. I kind five, four, five years whatever was grade 10 to 13, I failed twice and I went to summer school twice. Summer school is great because it

was all nuns teaching and they were really nice. When I had to go to get into grade 13, the school won. And by the way, I went to Forest Hill Collegiate, which was the biggest hellhole of my career. I mean, it was worse than the gang that came to see whatever they were called at UK subs at the edge. The gang from Burlington that had the water running through the ceilings and, oh fuck, it was horrible. But I had to fill out a questionnaire. What I wanted to do, everybody, what we wanted to do when we got out of grade 13.

And I said I don't know. So they sent me to the Jewish vocational center on Beverly. It was kind of, I don't know if any of you've seen this movie about the three strangers, there were three, the CNN did a while ago about three Jewish brothers who were separated at birth. Anyway, they all ended up at this fucking horrible place. And, um, I went there for a week and got, you know, tested and lectured and questioned and all the whole thing. And the answer after a week to take to my principle was, he wants to be a DJ.

Everybody else wanted to be a lawyer, a doctor, an accountant, and I wanted to be a DJ, a doctor, an accountant, and I wanted to be a DJ, which you know was pretty good. So I went to Centennial College, had a great time, got into a lot of trouble running a film festival. We once got busted for showing the morality squad as it was called in the day. Came and busted us for showing Chelsea girls, which is probably cleaner than Bambi. Nico combing her hair for a half hour, et cetera. But I went through all that.

And I had been showing movies in friends' basements, charging like a buck and giving them a bottle of Coke, and we'd smoke some pot and watch like five hours worth of cliffhanger cereals like Batman, Captain Marlott's, that all came from the Roxy. So I just continued and then I got a job getting out of Centennial College. I don't know if Larry Millson's here, but he was my journalism teacher.

And he was a sports writer for the Globe and Mail. And one day he said, we're all gonna go to a pub. I think it was called the Mansion House on O'Connor, for our class because that's what journalists do. They smoke cigarettes and drink beer. You know, and I was like a Jewish, nice Jewish kid, we smoked pot but we didn't drink beer. And we went to this place and we had our class and he said, excuse me, we're all gonna go to my place to finish the class. And I fell asleep from the beer.

Anyway, if Larry's here, it was great times. And I kinda knew what I wanted to do. When I was showing these movies, I was promoting, I went to school, you know, when I was showing these movies I was promoting, I went to school, I said, I'm doing all that. So I got out of school and I got a job at a film, film trade paper, sort of like variety, but for, for Canada. And the publisher of it was a guy named Nat Taylor, a brilliant theater guy. He owned Twin X Theaters, which 20th century theaters, which was the competition of famous players in Odeon at the time. And he had just, and I was writing for this paper, and he had just done this major thing by turning the Lowes Uptown

Theatre into a five theatre multiplex which was I think maybe the first anywhere and I got assigned to review it and I you know I gave it a great review for the three theaters on Yonge Street and panned the backstage theaters the the two on the back. They were just playing like second run, third run movies and and I felt they should be playing like movies that you can't see anywhere else and I got fired. So yeah. Then I worked for a film company, distribution film company called Film Canada, which owned a cinema across the street called CineCity. And I was sort of the promo guy and rented out 16 millimeter films to colleges. And they had all the underground movies from the 60s and Warhol movies and Godard and Children of Paradise

and Monterey Pop and Gimme Shelter. Sinocidio was an amazing place. They assigned me to book midnight movies on Fridays and Saturdays. And one of them was Yellow Submarine. I said, I want to run Yellow Submarine. And they said, it'll never go. Nobody ever went to see, nobody saw it when it first came out. They'll never go and, at midnight to see it. I said, you wait. I mean, they didn't realize that people were like high as kites. And the place, you know, the place, excuse me, the place was, you know, people lying on the floor watching them. Film Canada went bankrupt because they tried to make a movie about the Festival Express

tour that traveled across the country with Janis Joplin and the band and the Grateful Dead and I can't remember, Sea Train, who knows, but they went bankrupt and I quit before I went to, before it went bankrupt because I didn't like who was going to take over the theater, the company rather, and I figured out I need to do something so I thought I would start my own company and I called it Top Soil Films. I had the rights to a bunch of Emil De Antonio movies. One in particular was called Millhouse, which is like a compilation of idiotic things that Richard Nixon said. So, you know, I've idiotic things that Richard Nixon said. So, you know, I've been trying to get Ron Mann

to do one on Trump, but, he, or Doug Ford even. So I was doing that, and one morning, we were right on top of the Isaacs Gallery, which has now all been on Yonge Street north of Bloor, which is now next, near the Fiesta. And one morning a guy knocks on the door, British guy introduces himself as Jerry Stickles.

I didn't know who he was. He says, I've got this movie called Hendrix at Berkeley that we made. I used to road manage Jimi Hendrix. And as it turned out, he's kind of the legendary road manager of all time. He's dead now, but he did Queen and all this, and he wanted me to have the rights.

And immediately, I thought, I'm going to make a million dollars, and I'm really excited. and you know immediately I thought I'm gonna make a million dollars and I'm like really excited and I tried to get it into theaters but because it was so short nobody would run it especially the guy that fired me I thought it would be perfect at the backstage so I took it upon myself to find another movie theater and there was an ad in the paper for the Roxy Theater, which was out on Danforth and... Greenwood.

And Greenwood. Now I had never been east of Sherbourne, maybe Jarvis, but... Marv Newland, who made Bambi Meets Gonzillo as a friend and he drove me out in his van. I had no idea where we were. I knew it was next to a subway station. We played Hendrix at Berkeley for about five weeks and decided to continue showing two movies every night plus The All-Nighters and 24-hour movies and stuff and that's

enough for me I guess. Amazing. I beat him to it. Amazing. Honestly if you were in my basement I'd go six hours. I promised Derek 60 minutes so we're gonna bring in Jeff. Jeff Silverman. How did you come to partner with Gary Taub at the Roxie? At that time, Gary was having problems with two of the people that he started his company with. And I had made friends with Gary. I had just come to this country, and he seemed to know what he was doing. He was easy to follow and I followed him. And basically all the time we've had together

was me listening to his ideas and then working with him to make them real. So on that night I went down, stood next to him. I guess I'm bigger than him. And the two other guys saw that Gary was not going to just put up with them. I think there was money owed or something.

And. Can I just interrupt? Yeah. One of the guys was the bookkeeper from Film Canada. Little did I know that a bookkeeper wasn't an accountant. One morning, Revenue Canada calls you. You haven't been paying your amusement tax, which is why it was the HST of its time. One morning, Revenue Canada calls you, you haven't been paying your amusement tax,

which is why it was the HST of its time. Yes, we have, and there were all these stubs to Revenue Canada, but he had been pocketing the money. All I knew was he was having trouble with these two guys. And the next thing I knew, which really endeared me me to him was he personally went to the bank and took out his own money and paid whatever this amount was that was due. And it sort of made everything in the future clear. And we started doing shows.

And I guess we'd come up with promotions. I have such wonderful memories of the Roxy. I remember having trouble with the customs people because Sun Ra, when they asked him where he was from, he said Saturn. Or Edie the egg lady who I had to meet at the airport and I swear she could be anybody's grandmother. She didn't look anything like she did in the playpen. And we

came up with promotions and we did stuff at the Roxy nobody else could do. Kind of rebels, but in a nice way. When the law came in, for example, that you had a portion, a certain amount of seats for people to smoke in. Gary and I put them at the front so everybody would have to watch the smoke coming up. And it was just a great time. It was experiences that I had never had before. And he seemed to know what he was doing. And it was a wonderful time because there was always something to do. One of the things we do, and I don't know if they want me to do it now, is give away prizes. So, before I came up here, Derek said, would you like to give away some prizes?

So, I'm gonna do it the way we did at the Roxy. I understand without seeing it, one of them is a fantastic poster. So, let me try and do that now. So let me try and do that now. Okay, so the number, I can't read this. 314169. We don't like this one. Oh, wow. That's controversial. That wasn't yours. All right, here we go again. 31416224. All right, we got a winner.

Second row. I'll leave this for you up here. The second one is apparently a Las Pogo pack. It's a pack of three. It's a pack of four. It's a pack of five. It's a pack of six. It's a pack of seven.

It's a pack of eight. It's a pack of nine. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten.

It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. It's a pack of ten. The winner, second row. I'll leave this for you up here. The second one is apparently a Las Pogo pack. Police picnic pack. So, here we go. Good luck. Three, one, four.

One, six, 4, 1, 6, 2, I'll try another one. Oh wow. They're all that number. Okay, here it is. Here it is, 3, 1, 4, 6, 2, 3, 4. one for six two three four there you go third row we have a big winner congratulations amazing so that was it until oh there's one more prize talking heads talking heads poster Here we go Three one four one six two Zero zero all right looking in the crowd Anybody have that number?

All right, looking in the crowd. Anybody have that number? Zero, zero at the end, so I'll read it again. Oh, this gentleman right here. He's got it, the hat. Very good, I'll leave that up here as well. Okay, well done, Jeff. So thank you. Thank you, Jeff.

Can I just say one thing about Jeff? He was like an amazing cook. He was like a chef and when we used to have like a all-nighter 24-hour show there was an apartment above the Roxy before Nash the Slash moved in and there was a kitchen. And you know there was nothing greater than to win a prize in the middle of an all night show when everybody's been smoking, they have their Roxy matches and their Roxy cigarette papers.

We used to make a prime, he used to make a prime rib roast and the winner would win a sandwich and everybody in the row would win a sandwich. And it was a pretty awesome prize. There was one time that we showed war and peace, six hours, 12 minutes long. And we had an intermission where we made a deal with Hell Bread Bakery for black bread and we made a deal with Lipton's for their beef stroganoff mix. And I swear the pot fit all four burners. And the day before I called Lipton and I said,

okay, I got like 200 packages, how do I make it? They said, gee, you can't do that. We've been working for years on a dinner for six. Anyway, it didn't stop us. We did it in this giant pot, and we brought it to the theater, and we had an intermission, and everybody came out. We fed them black bread and beef stroganoff.

And as soon as they went back into the theater and sat down in that pot, boing, it became like cement. We literally had to get an ice picker sat down in that pot, boing, it became like cement. We literally had to get an ice picker to get the stuff out of the pot. But everybody had a good time. Paul and Brunton, are you employee number one? I think so, I think me and Randy Turrell, my old best friend, were the first two employees of the Roxy.

Gary Top confirms that is to be true. So let's begin. So we're going to cook with gas here because there's a lot to cover and people can read it all and he hijacked my brain. But let's get you. So why do we leave the Roxy for the New Yorker? Gary, how about you? Why did you move to the New Yorker? Oh, and the mic. The Roxy, I mean it was going through 700, 1,000 people a night. And it stunk, right? And it stunk, right? You know, you walk by down the street in somebody's smoking pot, it stinks.

The other thing was, in the old days, by the way, the Roxy was designed, or the architect, but same guy that did the Eglinton Theater on Eglinton, that beautiful Deco Theater. But the air conditioning was done through a venting system under the floor with vents under every sole you know sporadically across under every seat and you know people would like throw a joint on the floor or

cigarette butt and you know had a good slope in the theater and would roll down and some cigarette lit cigarettes ended up in in this this crawlspace ventilation system now little did we know that the cleaners you didn't use bags to clean the garbage. They swept it into the holes. So whenever a cigarette went into these holes, forest fire. And the walls were actually getting pretty sooty from these fires. Nobody would ever leave when the fire happened. They were all, they'd just go right to the back and watch. Watch it flame up and seats burning and fire trucks coming. And it's true. You would never believe it. So Gary Cormier, good to see you buddy.

Shout out to Gary Carmio. So tell us how you come to be involved with Gary Taupier. How did you two become the Garys? We both had a mutual friend. His name was David Andoff. He was the gentleman who made the gorilla that sat on the marquee at the New Yorker Theater. And he would come, I would run into him at a bar. He would come over at the end of the night, we'd have a few beers, listen to some music. He said, you should meet this guy called Gary Taub.

They got a candy bar there. It's put in incorrectly, it's not working. I went and looked at the candy bar. People who were serving couldn't reach it. The people who were trying to order something couldn't see what there was. Anyway, we fixed it, started talking about music, and we both quickly realized that we had very similar tastes and both appreciated the same things about music. And I drove home on my bicycle, and I was running up the stairs.

I was going to call Gary. And as I was running up the stairs, this gentleman was phoning me, saying, you forgot more than we know about live music. Why don't you come and hook up with us? And I said, that's exactly what I was thinking. And that's how it started. And it just so happened you're both Garys

and that's good for branding, the Garys. I don't know why people think the Gary brothers, but anyway, you know. That would be weird. All right, so now we have you at the New Yorker. I'm interested, why do you leave the New Yorker for the horseshoe? Maybe tell me that story and then what the horseshoe was

like when you guys got there. Gary Todd. We left the New Yorker because the owner, Bennett Foddy, who was a film producer and a real prick, he raised the rent on us. I don't know if anybody out there knows new Paul Denier. But Paul Denier was a really good friend of mine and my neighbor. And he was one of the first people to make badges

or buttons which everybody wore in those days in the 70s. Benetphotdy was such a... Paul would be out front. We let him be out front of the New Yorker. And Foddy made him pay rent. That's how bad he was. So we left. We left the New Yorker.

I think, what was it? Carla Blay was our last show there? Probably, yeah. And then that night we did a show and Gary's the carpenter and I'm just kind of what do you call it the laborer we went over to the horseshoe and he built a stage and we moved the stage from where the original stage is where the current bar is now where where what's his name Teddy works we moved it to where it is now and

we we wanted to call the horseshoe we sort of labeled it Toronto's first concert club and you know we brought in pretty cheap but great lighting and we had a nice stage and you know that's what we wanted to do and we didn't really you know we were up against the Alma Combo. The Alma Combo was actually went into them went back to music when I was running the Roxy and they used to cover up my posters that I put up around town. The Greaseball Boogie Band was the band that they promoted a lot as I recall, but did I answer anything?

All right. Speaking of posters, let me bring Colin back in here. So tell us a little bit about the posters, the horseshoe man and these great posters you put together. Yeah, so the horseshoe poster, everyone knows the person in it is Gary's high school photograph, right? Sure. So Gary, very nicely, Gary and Jeff asked me if I wanted to take a crack at doing handbills. I kind of had like a, like I sort of had a token job at the horseshoe. I worked at the Roxy, then the New Yorker, and then when I went to the horseshoe, Gary asked me if I wanted to work there, and he didn't really have a defined job.

They'd have people to take tickets So I I kind of got paid to hang out and you know smoke joints with Leroy Sybil and and see all these great bands and then I Started making handbills and it was make the handbills I remember a thrilling day was when Jeff and Gary bought me a really good staple gun so I could make the handbills Run around the city and put them up There was real etiquette back there. Redchart especially was, we're both very conscious of not covering up other people's posters. That's gone with the wind now.

And yeah, it was pretty simple to make. It was nice and sloppy. Smoke a joint, get an X-Acto blade, some glue and scratch it all up and hope you didn't make a spelling mistake. There you go. Alright, I need to know. I'm kind of fascinated by this police gig at the Horseshoe Tavern. So for the record, on the mic, Mr. Topp, how many people attended these police shows at the Horseshoe? I've heard numbers ranging from 8 to 15. You're the man. What's the number on the mic? Would you

say 60 over two nights? On the mic, Mr. Gordon. Well, you wrote it on the records. I think we probably had on the first night maybe 15, 18 people. On the second night, we probably had 20, 25 people. How many paid? That's a great question. How many paid? I think there were more there, but record company people. That's about who paid, probably. Yeah.

Sorry. There were people who brought their friends down because everybody was blown away by this band. And so there were new converts, as it were, some record company people. So how many people paid? I would say probably less than 30 over the two nights paid, maybe 35.

Wow. Well, so tell us why you booked police. Either Gary. You can start. I was working with an agent by the name of Ian Copeland, who phoned me up one day and said, Hey, Gary, do you want to do this thing called the police? And I said, I don't know very much about them. Let me check around. I checked with Gary. He checked with somebody. We quickly determined that the guitar player

had played with the singer from the Animals. John's children. Eric Burden. Eric Burden. Well, he also, I said, Andy Summers was playing guitar. So I said to Gary, oh, here's something else just so you know how we worked. We worked out of our apartments. He was on King Street and I was on Charles and Church.

We knew exactly what we were doing without even talking. But we were really busy in those days with bands that nobody had ever heard of. I had a long cable on my phone because we really couldn't afford to reply to long distance calls. So this one day I'm in the toilet, on the toilet rather. You're still romantic.

That's better. And he asked me, and we're talking about it, and he said, Andy Summers, and I said, Andy Summers, did he play with Kevin Coyne, who was a real favorite? And he checked back, and and yes same Andy Summers and okay book them and I remember when when they pulled up in their van I don't even know if it had windows behind the horseshoe the first thing I said to Andy Summers was how do we get Kevin Coyne? Kevin Coyne actually was the last person, other than Dick Duck and the Dorks,

that same weekend to play The Edge when it closed. And Kevin Cohen, he was very, he had a few emotional problems and stuff. He was throwing beer bottles at the chandeliers in The Edge. But he played with them and we had done a week with him, because you couldn't afford to bring them in. They weren't touring. You bring them in from England, like we did with so many other people.

We would be having meetings, not even meetings, just like hanging out and putting on records. Oh, why don't we bring Georgie Pham or the Trogs? A lot of the stuff that we did was just music that we liked So approximately you don't have to give me a definitive to the to the minute But how much time elapses between those shows the police play at the horseshoe tavern and when Roxanne breaks on the radio Like how much time are we talking about? Probably less than nine months.

I would say more like six months. Six months. We took, I don't remember if it was at the horse or the edge, but we took the police, drove them up to Chum on Yonge Street to give them their records, to say hi, whatever. We waited about 25 minutes with the band in the lobby. Nobody ever came out and we left. And then you see Roger, Rick, and Marilyn with Sting in the studio in their ads on City TV or whatever.

with Sting in the studio in their ads on City TV or whatever. We did the date at the Horseshoe in December, and we did them again in March at the Edge. And at that point in March, you couldn't turn a radio on anywhere in the world without steering Roxanne. Amazing. So I've seen this photo of Sting in his underwear on stage at the Horseshoe Tavern. So my question is, amongst the panelists here, how many of you were actually at one of the police shows at the Horseshoe Tavern?

Okay, Gary Taup was there, Colin Brunton was there, Gary Cormier was there. Okay, so you're three of those, whatever, 15 people. Okay, you guys didn't buy a ticket I hear, so. Oh, we bought a ticket. It was the most expensive ticket. More than this room costs. But you know what? They did give us a break.

They knew we tried, they knew that they were unknown, and we went over to the Waldorf Astoria one evening to see them and they gave us money back. Really? Yeah. That's amazing. And I'll tell you just something else that's interesting. When they were performing, aside from like him in his underwear,

Gary was at the soundboard and I always did lights. You know, I just like doing lights and the witch the colors the colors I could tell you about colors we looked at each other said geez they'd be great outdoors okay 1978 that's a teaser okay we're gonna get to that for sure now I do want to wrap up the horseshoe with The Last Pogo, and it just so happens a member of this panel directed The Last Pogo, recently gifted me a DVD, Colin Brunton. So tell us what was the idea behind The Last Pogo? Boy, I don't want to have both of my stories be about smoking pot, but I was taking a little film course

with a great guy called Patrick Lee. I don't know if Patrick's here tonight. And I was driving cab, drove down Spanina, smoking a joint. Had to air my cab out because it was going to get busy. Went into the horseshoe and Andy Patterson, who I know is here, was at the soundboard. He was at the soundboard talking to Gary

about this thing called the Las Pogo. I wasn't working there at that point. And in my being high, I just kind of blurted out, I'm going to make a film about this. And in the morning, I was a bit more clear-headed. I phoned Patrick Lee and said, hey, can you help do this? And he was like, yeah, let's go for it. So we somehow cobbled it together.

I went into like horrible debt. I had no idea what I was getting into. But yeah, so it survived and we got it made somehow. You sure did, amazing. Now I want to know from you, Gary Taub, how does the Edge come around? How does that come to be? And how is it different than the horseshoe?

I'll let Gary do that because he kind of instigated and came up with the name from Edgerton's. But one thing about the last pogo that night, if you weren't there, it was pretty amazing because there were some plainclothes cops that had been drinking just at the bar and then thought the place was unruly. I mean, you know, there was probably 700 people there,

which was a few hundred over capacity. But we did have a thousand people to see the Stranglers. Anyway, they decided they wanted to close the showdown and he and Jack, I don't even want to say his last name, Teenage Heads, former manager, were up arguing and stuff. And I had to, and I was by the mixing console, you know, the music and all that. And I was asked to pleasantly tell everybody in the middle of Teenage Heads said that the show was over and everybody had to leave,

which I did, but I pressed the tape recorder and anarchy in the UK came on, and hence all the broken chairs. If you were in there in the midst of that, it sounded like a thousand lumberjacks slamming, cutting trees down, slamming wooden chairs into the floor, into the tables and all that. It was quite amazing. But Gary. Well, hold on. How many people here today were at that last Pogo show? Put up your hands, rattle your jewelry. Ivor was there. Ivor, you were there, my friend. What was it like? Tell me, man on the inside, what was it like that night? It was one of the craziest nights ever at that venue.

And I was at the Stranglers too, which was even more people, but it looked pretty dangerous towards the end. I mean, you could feel the tension in the room. Great night, great two nights there. It was over two nights, right? Legendary night calling you got it as much as you could on film right? Yeah, we were supposed to film the second night as well, which was the last found up which was

Rough trade drastic measures I shan band and the Everglades and we we actually shot all our film The night of the last pogo I think literally there was three minutes of footage left over, which now that I'm in the business, it's insane ratio. You know, we shot 27 minutes for a 25 minute movie. Yeah, but we kept it pretty tight. Amazing. A few people asked me once, where did you get the name The Last Pogo or The Last Bound Up?

The Last Pogo was really our, our meaning, our community as I said in that thing. The Last Waltz, only it was the punk dance at the time. Last Bound Up, easy to figure out, rough trade. Awesome. Now Gary Cormier, let's hear about The Edge. So Ron Chapman who owned Edgerton's started coming to our shows and approached me one night after it became... say what? I'm sure he does. I'm sure he does. That's why we're not there. That's why when the whole thing collapsed we just left. He wanted to continue but we said no way. He was sitting on a gold mine if

he'd taken care of business it would have it would have worked you know but he just did not take care of business we were making money hand over fist but he was paying off other debts at any rate he said why don't you come and do your shows at Edgerton's and I said said, it's got the wrong vibe. It's like exposed brick, fern. You got all these hippie kids serving. The only way we could do it is if we put in a proper stage so that people could see the show.

We changed the name of the place to The Edge. And you pay us money to make this thing happen. So he financed the shows. We used the Edge as a springboard to take bands, introduce them to the city, and then continue working with them, doing them in larger venues, and moving the whole thing along. So that's how the Edge came about. The end, the people who owned the building sold it to the Catholic archdiocese who had a building immediately behind us and they were going to turn it into a home for wayward children, which is what it was all along anyway. Who, maybe it's you Gary Taub, but who can explain to the youngsters listening Dick,

Duck and the Dorks? It was the greatest, it actually was the greatest Toronto band of all times. And it was made up of our staff and members of the greatest bands of all time in Toronto. It was like, it could be 30 people on stage, it could be 15, it didn't matter. It was the greatest tribute band of all time. 60s music galore, not punk rock or anything. Visually it was amazing, we had them open for Squeeze and some other bigger shows. They were the legendary Dick Duck and the Dorks.

Yes! Yes! Ooh! Dick Duck and the Dorks, amazing. Shout out, who wants to shout out some of the bands who played The Edge? Sanra. Crazy Kevin.

Echo and the Bunnymen, The Slips. Psychedelic Furs. John Martin. John Cale. 999. Sun Ra took up half the building. C52. We should just do this for 60 minutes. I like this. And it was John Fox's Ultra Fox that played there. Phenomenal. Jonathan Richmond. Jonathan Richmond was playing there one night

and the toilet overflowed. and he had to move back behind the water flowing at the edge of the stage and I was doing lights and I was in dream it was like Niagara Falls on the water with the colors and he was just playing behind so Iver let's uh tell the people So you're at CFNY at this point? Yes. And what would you say you do at CFNY back in the late 70s? I was in the music department and I was on the air. I did the original import show at The Listener's Choice. And I did the concert listings and I loved what was coming to town and it just ended up that I talked to either one of these guys multiple times just about every day.

Wow. And they brought some amazing shows to town that we promoted and I think that for me they're some of the best memories I ever had of amazing shows. The specials when they played the Palais Royal, like absolutely phenomenal. I thought they blew the roof off. Anytime the English beat came to town, it was a real event. New Order's first time, The Cure's first time, the one and only Soft Cell Show, all things we worked together on and many many more. Alright, so the big event I want to get all the details on is the police picnic. So we'll start with you Ivor and we'll bring in the Garys. I mean this was something that was in the works for, it came together very quickly but

it was also something that everybody worked really really hard on in making it happen. And when they were starting to announce the acts, it was a really exciting time for CFNY, because that was our first time having a big show like that. Now, one of the things that Gary Topp and I had talked about, and we were on the same level on this one. And maybe you guys out there can relate to it. You'd go to a pretty cool show, and you're waiting for the band to begin, and the guy on the soundboard, a roadie or whatever, is playing the Doobie Brothers or Pablo Cruz or something.

Used to drive me fucking crazy. So I had been to Heatwave the year before and sure enough they were playing between songs. It's like, well here's another one from Lynyrd Skynyrd, like woohoo! That really goes well before talking heads and Elvis Costello. So Gary and I had a conversation. It's like we will make sure that we have the best music possible at the police picnic. And Gary came up to the radio station, we made all the tapes together for the police picnic. Overnight, yeah, it was a marathon.

We had a great time doing that. But it was an amazing relationship that we worked very well together. I will sidebar on one show that I always remember that you called me and said I'm gonna bring the Smiths to London, Ontario And I'm the people know that Smiths played London, Ontario by the way I don't know if you knew that they played at Centennial Hall and he goes I'm having trouble with this radio station FM96 and they're not they're not budging. they're not gonna play anything, really conservative.

And I said, well, we both said, fuck them. We're gonna make this work so we sort of got all our word together and sent word out to all the CFNY listeners and to all the CKLN listeners and what have you. It sold out in an instant. So FM96 kind of looked bad. Wow. So the police picnic, is this the largest event that Gary's ever put on, Mr. Topp? No, we did two other police picnics at the CNE. Yeah, the second one was the biggest. We curated the three shows pretty much. It's funny, like when Iver and

I were doing the music, so I'm playing the music that sort of goes along with the people in the crowd and the band that was coming on next. And when it came to the police, I was playing like all reggae and all sort of dance music and whatever. And I played KC and the Sunshine Band. Celebrate. Was that them? No, Cool and the Gang, rather.

Celebrate. And the crowd started to boo like crazy and the sound guy from Kim Turner from the police came up and put on a Bob Marley tape, you know, just all Bob Marley. So why was I saying this? Oh, so yeah, they had to change it anyway. Oh, yeah, so um Forget it That's okay, I was just reminded So the spoons played the second police picnic I think and I I just want to shout out in the very far corner a dear friend of mine Rob Bruce

Is there? And a shout out in the very far corner, a dear friend of mine, Rob Pruse is there. And I know we wrapped up the Edge discussion, but his first gig with the Spoons, he was like 15 years old or something, was at the Edge the night that John Lennon was murdered. And Rob's told me that story. And Rob will be in my basement tomorrow, but that's another show. See you tomorrow, Rob. And we had, Heather and I had a party that we always had every pre-Christmas, because we were always working on New Year's,

and we had a party the same night that John Lennon was assassinated, and we weren't at the edge. You weren't at the Spoon Show with Rob Cruz's debut. Fascinating. OK. So now when we look at Post Edge here, so police picnic, the CF and Y convergence there.

We only have a few minutes, and I know there's another couple of hours of content left. But what are some of the other spaces you booked after the Edge? Just maybe shout out some of these venues. You're the man of the hour. Larry's, we booked a lot. Larry's Hideaway. And the great guy who managed the club and the hotel, Fred Shackackbar he's a very dear friend a lot of

people hated him but Gary and I used to go out for lunch with him he called us the lunch bunch Larry's was a fantastic place can you imagine or net Coleman and Sun Ra wanting to come back to Larry's Hideaway. You know it's a great place. Oh God, the Rivoli, Palais Royale, Club Kingsway. Danforth Music Hall. Danforth Music Hall, of course. The Concert Hall. We were supposed to do one at the ballroom on St. Clair, but a couple

nights before the event, the owner, this crazy Irish guy, wanted to change the deal with us. So we moved the place quickly to the Palais Royal. That was where the specials were supposed to play. I can't even think of them all. Isabella? Sibony? Is that Jerry? I thought you were in Berlin. So here, in our final moments here, I just want to let people know they can still hear Ivor Hamilton on nythespirit.com, which is David Marsden's streaming service.

So shout out to the Mars Bar, and Ivor's can be heard there. And Colin Brunton, we're still seeking some financial assistance to make the movie about Nash the Slash, right? Talk about that for a moment. Yes, I am. So, get your Visa cards out, go to GoFundMe.com, find Nash the Slash. We need $35,000. Do I hear $35,000? Do I hear $35? We're getting there. Because I want to see this movie, this documentary about Nash and Slash. So there's got to be rich people in this room.

Come on, what are you doing with your money? I didn't set this up. I know, he didn't set this up. I'm going to do this for you, Colin. Here, and Gary here, before we pass the mic to the audience for any questions or comments, maybe a little bit of what are you up to these days? I'm retired. I kind of retired in 93. Then I heard the Dixie Chicks and got back into it. And but now I'm retired. I do the odd very odd big show like Jonathan coming here in March, but I have found my true love, which is Sellers & Newell's secondhand books on College Street West at Baycrest at Beatrice and it's a 30 seat bookstore.

The best curated bookstore in the city. I mean, I've seen people come to shows there where they paid 500 bucks for a very rare book. But it's floor, ceiling to floor books, amazing acoustics. I book people I love. They get all the money. We charge 20 bucks. They can walk out with good money and I just love ending my or continuing my career making no money. Spending money at the Mexican restaurant across the street. He hijacked my brain. The new book I highly recommend it. So congratulations on that, Gary. He hijacked my brain.

Again, thank you to to Derek who two and a half years ago approached the idea and said it'll be really great. And he's really come through and very proud and humbled by it. You know, there's a few people on the crew, I gotta say, on his crew, do not like returning phone calls.

I'm not used to that that but I guess that's their generation. Anyway I had to say it because it's funny. Okay so we're about to do the question but one second I'm gonna come to you with the microphone but I do want to thank our panelists today. Gary Cormier, thanks for being here. Form A, thanks for being here. Jeff Silverman. Ivor Hamilton. Colin Brunton. And Gary Taub.

All right, now I'm gonna literally stick your hand in the air if you have a question or comment for anyone on the panel. I'm running over here. I'm going to get a lot of exercise here. All right. Tell us who you are. My name is Julia Sasso, and I worked at the Edge from 1979 until it closed. I've got checks in my pocket that never got paid, because Ron didn't pay them.

I also worked at Larry's Hideaway. And I lived for five years with Catherine Lalonde, who was my catering partner. And we lived in Gary Topp's old apartment at the wonderful Manhattan Apartments that now have a huge condominium being built on top of them. What's my question? What's my question?

My question is, I can't remember. Questions and or comments. That was a comment. So thank you so much. Oh, God, what was it? If it comes back to you, stick your hand in the air. Alright, I'm just scanning the room if there's a hand in the air. I'll run to you with the mic. Any other questions? Okay, I'm going to do this one here. David Quinton Steinberg, to you. Forty-six years ago tonight, I was getting ready

to do sound check at the last Pogo with my band, The Mods, and I just... This is not about me. We were a bunch of little shitheads. And at 17 years old and 18 years old, what Gary Cormier and Gary Taub did for us was truly remarkable. And they supported us so much,

as did Colin making the film, as did Iver on CFNY. And I just wanted to say from Scott and Greg and Mark and myself, congratulations, we love you. And still to this day, thank you for everything you did for us kids. We will never ever forget you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Cormier, it's so good to see you. Yes, I remember my question, which is, who is the dude in, like, who's the dude in the image?

Who's that guy who took your brain? Who is that man? Like, that was on so many posters, so many flyers. Who is that dude, Gary Topp? Ha ha ha. No answer. Ha ha ha. It could be my high school picture, but don't count on it.

All right, we have another question or comment. Just probably like everyone else here, I wanna say thanks, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This is for Gary and Gary. And it's very specific. Why did you bring in Darryl Rhodes and the HaHa Vishnu Orchestra? Let them play three nights. And how did you think it went? I thought they were great. It was an act that Ian Copeland had sold me. We were trying to get something going with him. I thought they were great. I would have paid money to see them. They were like, where were they from, Atlanta? They were an Atlanta version of the tubes. And the reason

the Three Knights is, because we believed when somebody came into town to play, and we believed that most of the people we had were really great and deserved to be seen, we believed in word of mouth. And the only know rather than them leaving people talking about it and then forgetting about it they get three nights. I mean we did that with local groups too if somebody was worth it. Word of mouth is the way to promote music and not like it is now. Pardon? It wasn't a big crowd. No, they were unkown.

Can't measure how good a band is by how big the crowd is or how many beer boxes. Well, there must have been a reason you were there. You were entertained. That's the name of the game. Question for Mr. Top, a big fan of you and music guy, you've promoted, you've you've booked so many artists that you've loved or at least liked over the years. Are there any that you just never got around to getting for whatever reason?

And if so, what would be the top of that list of someone you never got around to booking? Two in particular. When I was at the Roxy, I booked Little Feet. 1974 or three, whatever. And a couple weeks, and they were going to play the victory. Little Feet are still one of the greatest bands of all time. And a couple weeks before the show they were touring the states and not getting any crowd at all.

I mean, Heather and I and a few other people went to see them in Buffalo at a free show at the university. And there were about 20 people there. And they were all drunk, so drunk that the cops closed the showdown. So they're one. Now they were managed by a guy named Bob Cavallo. Ruffalo and Cavallo was the the company name and he also represented Captain Beafheart who I brought to Convocation Hall during the Roxy days. Anyway, I've been reading a lot about this black kid who was playing in New York a lot. This is like in the you know like 7980. Pretty unknown and pretty unknown and his name was Prince and I wrote or called I can't remember Ian Copeland and asked if he could be on the bill of the first police picnic and

they said absolutely not and they wouldn't do it and so obviously can you imagine I mean I can imagine the Prince at the Police Picnic. They would have got, he probably would have got booed off the stage just like cool and the gang, but can you imagine? So those two, those two artists, two of the greatest artists of all time, as far as my lifetime,

I, you know, didn't happen. Hi, I'm Heather Lockhart. I'm a blues musician in Toronto and an event producer. And although I wasn't around for a lot of these things that I gained so much inspiration from, you've all really laid the path for my generation and onward. And, you know, with passing that torch, that eternal flame of kind of anarchy and creativity, who do you have your eye on now? Like who has the torch?

Who should we be leaning on in the city of Toronto, whether it be a venue or a producer or whatever it may be? And this is for anyone on the panel. If you have sort of what's happening in Toronto now that you think people should keep their thumb on? I invited Ron Lee Tepper because she is the queen. And every one of her musicians, each one of her musicians are queens and kings. Like there's nobody

better. You know, Dave, we invited Dave Howard to play later because I think he is. As far as new stuff, I don't go out anymore. You know, after running movie theaters for every night, and I always wanted to be at every show. I just don't like going out you know. I mean I hate the venues that's why I like Cellars and you know we you know we were talking about Derek wanted to do this show at the at the horseshoe no way it's not legendary anymore for me. And it's a pigsty. I just don't like going out, so I don't hear a lot. There are things that I get, not tapes, but whatever they're called, YouTubes, whatever, links that I like.

Somebody sent me a a new recording of a woman who was around in the 90s, Barbara Lynch. It's like amazing. Like her new album is just stunning. She's kind of like Tom Waits or whatever and I don't know I can't answer that question I don't go out enough and I really hate the music business because of what it's turned into so it kind of puts me out and I don't have any more room for records. Gary or anybody on the panel, 19 over here on your left. 1982, 1983, Public Image Limited at the concert hall downstairs here.

I assume you promoted that? Sorry? Public Image Limited, 1983. They played here? Yes. First time in Toronto was here. I was there. With Otway?

Yes, John Otway, open. Perfect opening act. I was a young, I think I was 16, 17 years old, but I was brought with my friend who was 20, 21. A great night. I remember the guy that was, he was coaxed, John was coaxing to jump off the balcony to the floor, but he never did. He applied, there's gotta be stories with John Leiden in dealing with him.

He was a nice guy, I thought. He hated the catering. He didn't like the catering up here. He was the nice guy, I thought. He hated the catering! He didn't like the catering, apparently. He was the only one! That's my question anyway. Is there any stories that go along with that show? Iver might have one. You know, like, she...

I'm very involved with that one as well. Julia's talking about the catering, and she was a big part of it. One time the English beat used to always come here. Julia's talking about the catering and she was a big part of it. One time the English beat used to always come here, play three nights rather than, you know, Massey Hall or wherever. And one night they were at, Roger was at Chum doing an interview. And the DJ at CHAM asked him, like, why don't you play at Massey Hall for one night and three at the concert hall?

I mean, you know, they were pretty much CPI motivated. But anyway, why don't you play three nights instead of one night? He said, we love the catering. Okay, we have one last question. I was going to, Mike, I was just going to jump back to the public image thing, but I did an interview with John Lydon on that date, and it was one of the worst of my career, I have to say.

It was awful. And it started off very cordial, it was very nice, but I had some information from a Sounds magazine which they had regurgitated from a year before and I asked him about that question and he just thought all of a sudden I was a backwoods bumpkin. And he goes, what's wrong with you people here in Canada? Ha ha ha.

It's like, that's old information and it just went south. Now, after that, for the rest of the time I was at CFNY to end of 1988, Virgin Records were appalled and they put me on their A list for mailing and I got free records for the next eight years sent to my house, so that was good. Speaking of John Lydon, Heather and I were in London

John Lydon, Heather and I were in London around, I don't know, 78, whenever the Sex Pistols album came out. And I was friends with Larry Wilson, who was kind of the Bob McAwitz of Chum FM at the time. He had the very influential 6 o'clock in the evening, magazine show and promoted all this kind of stuff. We went, Larry ended up living with me on St. Nicholas Street in a spare room I had that was filled with 25 pound bags of kitty litter that I thought I needed. Anyway, Heather that I thought I needed. Anyway, we went over, Heather and I went over to his place and we had to play him the Sex Pistols, which I don't think it had even come out here. And we played it for him, and we played one side

and then he put on Jackson Brown. That's what his, that was his, Chum FM's kind of best music of the day. But he was a great guy, Larry. All right, we have one last question and then the book team are gonna take us home. Final question. Hi, I first started one part. I wanted to know what it was like dealing with the Ramones,

but then you just mentioned Tom Waits. So I'm very curious if you ever dealt with Tom Waits and what it was like dealing with the Ramones, but then you just mentioned Tom Waits, so I'm very curious if you ever dealt with Tom Waits and what he was like. I did. What you see. I don't know much about the show, but after the show, I don't drink, Tom Waits took me out and showed me how to drink.

He was a nice guy. What you see is what you get. He was exactly the way he was. We did him several times. There was one time I did him and my dad came down and it was my birthday and we had a bottle of Southern Comfort and there we were. My dad, me and Tom swig him back his Southern Comfort. I've had a great time.

Tom Waits, when he played the Frankswell years at Massey Hall for three nights, asked me after the first show, what did you think? And I said, like, amazing, whatever, and, but, your lighting guy has no idea about your music. Second night he asked me, said, he doesn't get it, he just doesn't get it. Third night, he asked me if I wanted to go on the road with him as the lighting guy. I said, no way.

About two weeks later, I read in Rolling Stone that the lighting guy fell off a truss. All right, it's my absolute pleasure to welcome to the stage the book team. Come on up here, guys. Can you high Jack my brain. Hi Kara. Thank you for coming out. This has been an amazing day. Making this book is like a dream for us. We are influenced, you know, our whole lives we've been influenced by what Mr. Cormier

and Mr. Top and all of the people on the stage have done. And I think they've inspired all of us and I think we can all agree. So it's been a pleasure working with them on the book. It's been a long process, and we're thrilled that we finally got it out and that you get to see it. So hopefully you enjoy it as much as we enjoyed making it. And so there's a few people here that are on the book team, and there's our design team, and there's our printer.

So each one just kind of introduce themselves. Here you go I'm Noel Lanton, Creative Director at the Technical Therapy, my partner Nadia. I'm Nadia Molinari and partner of Noelle's. My name is Frank Grasso and I'm one of their book team. I'm David Villan. I'm the owner of Flashbree Productions who printed the book. We can't do anything without Derek's crew and their hard working crew, the great design and Gary's cool light. We don't really do anything, We just bring it all together.

So we're very proud to be part of it. Thank you. And I'm Sean Cherry, one of the book team. Thank you, Khemane. The people are here in the audience. I know we interviewed probably at least a third of this audience. And Gary, I don't know if you know this,

we're actually all wayward youth from behind the edge that we live there. So thank you. I'm Simon from UACP Press. I generally write these books, but not this one, because it's an oral history. And yeah, I don't return Gary's calls. I'm Steve Perry, and I also help the team where I can. Applause We want to thank Matt Daly, who is one of the designers who is too humble to come up here. Applause And Darren also. There's a lot of people who took a pill. Thank you.