Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Lorne Honickman: Toronto Mike'd #602

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

Mike chats with broadcaster and lawyer Lorne Honickman about Sea-Hi Chinese Restaurant, the times they are a-changin', the reaction of our politicians and journalists to COVID-19, Lorne's future podcast and more.

Welcome to episode 602 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business. The Keitner Group. They love helping buyers find their dream home. Text Toronto Mike to 59559. And Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack. One of the most celebrated roots country bluegrass bands in Canadian music history. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com and joining me this week is lawyer, broadcaster, and future podcast host, Lorne Honickman.

Wow. What an intro. you're wrong and admit that the waters around you have grown and accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone if your time to you is worth saving then you better

start swimming or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are a-changing the times they are a changing. The times they are a changing, Lorne. How you doing, buddy? Oh boy, they are a changing. How are you, Mike? I can't believe it was back in August, the end of August, the beautiful, beautiful day. I was on your show for the very first time, and I got to sit there and reminisce and talk about all the wonderful days and months and years that I spent at City TV and City Pulse News and everything. And it's what life is about, right? You could never look ahead from there and say, yeah, and I guess maybe I'll talk to you in next spring when we're all just hunkered down.

New words, right? Hunkered down. And we've got a world global health crisis where we don't know what's going to happen by the minute. It's unbelievable. unbelievable and um and it's it's great to see people like you who are still talking to people and letting people express themselves and get on and talk about these issues because there is so much to talk about well lauren thanks for doing this ideally you'd be sitting right here at the table with me i could look into those eyes and we could have a conversation in person, maybe even crack open a cold Great Lakes beer. But under the circumstances, it's just good to hear your voice. It's coming through loud and clear. You're on a landline. Yeah, I'm on a

landline. Am I one of the only people that still has a landline? I guess. Well, now it's coming in handy. Yeah, no, no. I know you always, you know, we've been talking lately, and, you know, you should grin that I don't have a Twitter account, but I do have a landline, so that's good. Yeah, it's, you know, normally you and I, and people should understand this. Today, March 23rd today, I guess it is, I'm losing track of time. You and I met at my office back, I guess it was on March the 11th, way back on March the 11th. And I know that sounds funny, but I think everybody out there agrees that time

has been suspended in so many ways. We seem to be living in that Jim Carrey, the Truman story movie, where every minute there's something happening. And it almost seems so long ago, March the 11th. Mike, just think about this. On March the 10th, the night before I met you on March the 11th, my daughter Laura and I were at the

Leaf Games. Wow. That's less than two weeks ago. Less than two weeks ago. Right. You know, with 20,000 people. And now I'm sitting here in my basement talking to you moments before you call me, moments before you call me, just to see how things change with time, the premier of this province essentially announces there's going to be a lockdown starting on Wednesday. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I know you're a lawyer, but lockdown, that can't be the right term, right? Because lockdown to me means we can't leave our homes unless we're getting essential stuff. You're right. Okay. Let's use the exact words he used. Only essential services in Ontario can stay open. So you're right. Right now, there's no order for you and I to stay in our house,

but the province, I should have said shutdown. There's going to be a much bigger shutdown. have said shutdown. There's going to be a much bigger shutdown. Only essential services are going to stay open starting on Wednesday. And these things have been happening. These types of changes have been happening continuously, almost, it seems like, either by the hour or by the day. But what has been so, and maybe you think the same way, Mike, and maybe our listeners as well, but they're always, we seem to be the step behind. Maybe I'm wrong, but like, think about this. Think about how things have, the way that changes are. And it's been so frustrating watching a lot of the news conferences that have taken place over the last, I guess, week and a half. Because remember, let's not forget, not only do we sit back and go,

wow, I was a Leaf game, like on May the 10th, March the 10th, and Mike was at my office on March the 11th. But let's not forget on March the 12th, which was the Thursday, the premier that just, the same man that just announced about the lockdown was telling people he felt it was okay then. I'm not being critical, but that was

his information. Go on your holiday. March break's coming up. Don't worry about it. So, Lauren, let me just reiterate something about this timeline you're referring to. And just to bang this home is that, so 12 days ago, you're at a Leaf game

with 20,000 people, whatever, 19,000 people. The very next day, which is, well, that was probably 13 days ago. And then if I get, right, so 12 days ago, I bike to Bay and Front, basically, and I days ago, I bike, uh, to Bay and front basically. And I go to a, an office building,

something, I mean, I wouldn't even imagine doing that today, but I went in an elevator, I went up to the whatever floor and I sat down, uh, at a, at a,

you know, in an, in a boardroom with you and had a great conversation, but that's 12 days ago. That was normal. We didn't shake hands though, right? We didn't shake hands. No, I think we, that's right. You're right, Mike. Cause even by then we go, oh yeah, we can't shake hands. Ha ha ha. All right. Let's, let's, you know, touch elbows, but you're right.

Yeah. So that was in place already. So I remember cause when I had guests to my home studio for Toronto Mike that week, I had a couple of guests, and I remember no handshaking happened. That was the week, no handshaking. But then that's Wednesday I'm in your office, and you're right. The Thursday is when Doug Ford lets Ontarians know they can go enjoy their March break like normal and have fun. But then school, I'm trying to remember, Friday, that was the last day of school.

But then, uh, school, I'm trying to remember, Friday, that was the last day of school. So we're on Friday. That's when to use the, the, the expression, all hell breaks loose. It was the Friday where, whoa, that's when the government goes non-essential travel, avoid all non-essential travel. And, and that's when things really, everything started to escalate. And it, and that was, and, and from that moment on, from that moment on, from that Friday on, you know, we're still only talking, like you say, Mike, like 10 days ago, whatever it is, 11 days ago,

but that's where every day something else was happening. And what was getting frustrating watching it and watching the news conferences is you felt that we were a step behind things didn't make sense i'll give you an example yes a week ago today a week ago today the province and i give credit listen let's give credit where credit is due. The politicians, both municipally, provincially and federally, got to give the prime minister a credit for this. They're out there. They're messaging. They're making themselves accessible. OK, what's been frustrating is that messaging, because a lot of it becomes, well, wait a minute. So a week ago today, the Ontario

medical officer of health is talking about the fact that he's urging, urging restaurants, not ordering, urging restaurants to close back then. And then you said, and then if, then there were questions, but not hard enough questions. Whoa, wait a minute. Why aren't you, why are you asking them? Why don't you order them now? Shouldn't we be, and this is what I'd be asking, overreacting so we can come back months later and go, boy, did we overreact? We shut restaurants down right away. But then in that news conference on that Monday, there was a lot of, well,

you know, we're, we're hoping people. And then the next day, Ford declares a state of emergency and orders restaurants. Well, what changed in those less than 24 hours? The same thing happened, Mike, with the border with the U.S. Like it was it made no sense. We closed off. We closed off our borders to everyone except people from the U.S. and if you remember the prime minister said well how why is that and it was and again nonsensical in what he should have said back then so we didn't have to

have that angst is say well we can't do anything until Trump says we can. So we're hoping he's going to tell us it's OK tomorrow or we're hoping he can tell us it's OK on Friday. But we got from all the politicians at these news conferences, all that messaging and the messaging that they learned in media training and and all of that. And I just kept saying to myself, you know, the old reporter in me, I'm sitting looking at the screen and I'm barking out the questions, going, ask him this. No, don't let, it was like when Bill Blair was being asked questions, why we still were allowing those people seeking asylum

to walk into the country. That made no sense. The answer made no sense back then. And of course, within 24, 48 hours, that border was closed as well. So I'm not trying to be critical in the sense that I know that it is difficult. I don't downplay it. It's life and death out there. I understand that. We all understand that. It's not a matter of sitting back and we're playing like the old proverbial Monday morning quarterback, you know, the old guy going, well, geez, if I, I'm not trying to do that. What I'm trying to say is what, what causes more angst for people is when things don't make sense at a certain period of time. And the number one

thing about this whole crisis and our reaction that hasn't made sense is there has been a sense that we're trying not to overreact. We're trying not to do that. And that doesn't make sense. We should be overreacting. We should be, did you see the pictures, Mike? Did you see the video of the people out in Vancouver on the beaches and in the parks? Indeed, absolutely. And I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute. How is there not an order now?

How is there not somebody saying now? How is there not somebody saying you can't do that? You know, this isn't this isn't now a matter of of just your own choice. We can't worry about civil liberties to a certain extent if it's going to affect everybody's well-being. my wife and I, Kathy and I, went to Loblaws. We needed a few, quote, essentials. We got in the car, went to the parking lot, put on a mask. We were lucky that we had a mask because our neighbors, who are so nice, had a few extra masks. And they said, did you want, it was like, almost like, oh my goodness, look at this gold. Sure, thank you so so much they gave us a mask we we had plastic gloves we had glasses we went into the we went into loblaws we we saw it wasn't crowded at all we we kept our distance from everyone we we we went through a self-check so we didn't have to go through the regular checkout and and then we we sterilize we with all that and then and then we come home you turn the tv on i'm looking at this video of people out yesterday because it was a beautiful day

and they're treating it looks like every other day and i'm thinking where are the police where's the chief of police i haven't heard in the city of toronto yet maybe i missed it i haven't heard in the city of Toronto yet. Maybe I missed it. I haven't heard Mark Saunders in a news conference. I haven't heard him talking about the policing aspect about all this. And maybe there's been nothing to enforce and that's been the problem. But those are the types of things, Mike, for me, when I look at these things, that has been somewhat frustrating. Will it matter at the end of the day? Will it matter? Will we say, you know, God willing, this crisis is over at some point in the near future at least?

No. We're going to say we're going to thank people. We're going to thank our polity. We're going to thank our frontline workers. Yes, I get that. It's just been really difficult sitting back and listening to some of these news conferences, watching how things are being handled,

and not being able to sort of say, wait a minute. That doesn't make sense. Those are the answers I've been wanting. Now, Lorne, I love this. You were shot out of a cannon for this episode 602. I love it. Now, I'm going to get us to touch on all those parts. I especially want to get,

because you have a unique blend of broadcaster pedigree, so there's a reporter in you, but you're also a practicing lawyer, right? Remind us, what kind of lawyer are you? Oh, I'm a great lawyer. Oh no, I'm just kidding. Caveman lawyer. You set me up, Mike.

I got to hit the ball over the neck. Oh, no, no, real quick, real quick and then we're going to get back to that. I was chatting with Ralph. No, I'm a litigation lawyer. I'm a litigation lawyer. So I do a lot of civil, it would be called civil commercial litigation. I do my practices a lot in reputation management, in libel, slander.

But I do, you know, all sorts of litigation. So that's how you would frame me as a litigation lawyer. And, of course, that means I'm a lawyer that goes to court. And, of course, the court system in the province is totally shut down. We can talk about that as well. Yeah. We're going to get in, get into everything.

But, uh, I was talking to Ralph Ben-Murray this morning and, uh, he remembers you from your standup career. Did we like, do you, maybe before we get back into the heavy stuff,

uh, can you remind us about your comedy career? It was awful. I wasn't very fun. I mean, I thought I was. From 1978 to 1980, I performed at Yuck Yucks in Toronto. That's where I met Ralph. Ralph was amazing.

By the way, people who don't know or never got to see Ralph Ben-Murgy when he did stand-up before he went into broadcast and did his thing, Ralph was a part of a group at Yuck Yucks. They were all great. Ralph was there. There were so many different comics that started at the time that I started.

Their careers shot one way. Mine shot the other way. Can you name drop some? Like, is this like Mike McDonald? Like, can you name drop some of these names? Mike McDonald,

I, you know, I mentioned my wife, Kathy. Kathy and I had been together a long time. And when we first met and we'd go to Yuck Yucks, we saw Jim Carrey, which could have been either his first night or his second night ever at Yuck Yuck.

We saw Howie Mandel started there when I was there, just to name a few people. And it was and I did. I did stand up and my my act would be, you know, if I could find some tapes, I have some tapes of friends that sat in the crowd when I would do my standup. Um, you'd probably, it would be the type of thing, Mike, if you listen to the tape,

I would do my joke and you'd sort of hear the audience laugh would be courtesy chuckle like that. You know, it would sort of be, sometimes I'd get a, that's good. But, but there would be no, what I'd call, you know, like, like the fa, right? Like, if you listen, if I, if I could have, if somebody would have taped Jim Carrey when he first started, uh, or those early Howie Mandels and, you know, audiences going

crazy, but I got to give credit to Mark Breslin, of course, because Mark Breslin was, you know, a pioneer in this country when, of course, when it came to stand-up comedy, so when I got there, you know, he thought, I guess he thought I was okay, like, so I got to go on, and I, you know, and then there was a club that opened in Toronto on Eglinton called Giggles on Eglinton West, and this was about 1980, and I got to host there. So I got to be the host there. And that club was a tiny club and it brought in other comics. So Bob Saget came there. I remember and, and Jim Carrey was, was performing there as well. Um, I, when I grew up, I grew up in North York, um, and I grew up, uh, right around the corner from Rick Moranis. So Rick and I grew up at

the same time and Rick was brilliant. Rick's another guy, I'm going to name drop, but he was, he was a guy that, uh, was, was unbelievable. He could have been brilliant in, in like it academically, he was brilliant, but he didn't want to do that. And he, I remember he was one of the first of any of us to get any type of gig anywhere and i think he got on to what was cftr back then it was called cfd is it still called cfdr i can't remember it's still but he uh not chum fm no he went eventually then went to chum up and but he started i remember on am uh and he just used to do, between songs, he would give the call letters of the station or whatever. And I swear I remember, and maybe Rick, if he ever heard this, if I ever saw him again, we'd talk about this.

But I remember that song, Je T'aime. I don't know if anybody remembers that. It was a song done in French about two people about, about getting ready or are making love. I can't, you can always find the song or whatever. And I swear, I remember Rick, we were listening to him and it came out of the song. And I just, I remember him going, does anybody have a cigarette, you know, or something like that. But it was, it was, it was it was amazing so so yeah i i grew up i was surrounded by you know and and again i'm gonna give ralph credit where credit's due here as well i put ralph in that category of comics who started back then uh who i always thought to myself wow

these guys are good you know and uh and they're gonna be you know and so no surprise a lot of the careers as they went. But yeah, there's your confession of the day. And I'll thank Ralph for making sure everybody knows that I was once a mediocre stand-up comic. Is this the song? Sorry, I just lost you there. Oh, can you hear the music I play? Like, did you hear Bob Dylan off the top? I didn't.

I just heard a tiny bit. Okay. I think sometimes with phone calls, yeah, I think it's harder to hear what I'm playing, but I pulled up a song, Je T'aime, Jane Birkin and Serge Gainsbourg. I wondered if that was the jam, but if you can't hear the music,

so I was going to play, in fact, I'll still do it, but I was going to play another Bob Dylan song at the end of this episode for you, and I'm hoping you can hear it because I want to hear your reaction to it. So maybe remind the people

about your love for Bob Dylan, because I purposely am starting the episode and closing the episode of Dylan, because I remember our conversation in episode 503. So tell us a little bit about your, how you feel about Bob Dylan.

Wow, you know what? We started this conversation, I was all like, you know, you got this very good, Mike, you got me all calmed down here. Now I was all riled up. Um, okay. No, Bob Dylan. Yeah. Bob Dylan. I guess when I was a teenager is when I first discovered Bob Dylan and, um, uh, I just, he, he, you know what I think happens, and I think it happens with kids today as well, with let's say a certain area of rap and whatever.

He connected with me. He was one of those, I just lyrically, and the way he sang, I just, those two things together. And I always say this, people who know me always, they, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll say, Oh no, here goes Lauren again, talking about Dylan and rap. And, but I've always said, I, I, I believe that what rap is and what that type of music is, is something that Dylan created the phraseology, his ability to, to, uh, put words and thoughts together in my mind like no one and then sing them the way he does. People used to say, oh, he's a great poet, but I hate his voice. And in those, I used to

love his voice and used to love the way he sang. And, you know, I used to always say to myself, musicians and other musicians who respected them would copy them. You know, think about how Mick Jagger would sing. You can't always get what you want. And when you hear him go, I met her today at the reception. Who's that? He's invitating Dylan. Those are the time and Dylan with his, like, I could sit with somebody. I always say this, give me two hours of your time, and I'll make you a Dylan fan because you'll walk away shaking your head. Now, if you're my wife, Kathy, she'd say, I don't want to hear Dylan anymore. I don't need you to tell me this a thousand times anymore.

Tell that to Mike. Now, Lorne, when things return to normal, you're getting your butt over here to properly kick out the jams with me. Oh. So something to look forward to. I'm going to do some potential Dylan songs. Now, when we were together,

one song per artist. Sorry to break it to you. Oh, sorry. Okay. When I was with you 12 days ago, it was so long ago, but so recent. It was so recent, but so long ago. It was so long ago that you actually had not yet

officially canceled your family trip. Could you tell us a bit about what was planned and then what you ended up doing? It was unbelievable. We were supposed to have, this was going to be the dream holiday for us because we have my two children, Asher and Lara, and Asher's married to Hannah, and we have two beautiful granddaughters, Sarah and Nina,

and we were all going. We were taking them to Jamaica, and it was going to be a great you know and because kathy and i always go away with our friends sandy and clonny at this time of the year and we'd go down to jamaica different places i played beach beach volleyball but this is going to be the trip with the family we're going down and yeah it was like um well two things have happened one my my granddaughter nina got this little ear infection and that became problematic because it looked like now she wasn't going to be able to fly. And then, of course, the decree that Trudeau gave on that Friday that we and I talked about at the beginning of the show, only avoid all non-essential travel to any international destination. So when we put those two things together and we just said, no, we can't do it. And it was a disappointment to everyone.

And, you know, what really is so astonishing to me, Mike, though, and you're asking me this, is that hearing about how many people unlike us just went, nah, it'll be okay. Right. And they went anyway. Um, I, I, I couldn't believe when I heard how many people actually did that, but that's what we were going to do. And then it just seemed for, for those reasons that just couldn't be anything we, we would do now. We just couldn't do it. And, um, uh, you know, and you say to yourself that, okay, well, I hope, um, I hope we can do it a year from now. Maybe we'll do it a year from now. I mean, Kathy and I had a few major trips planned for this year.

We're trying to do these things now, right? We're getting older. We're trying to try, we travel a lot more. We've been very fortunate. We've seen a lot of great places, but now everything's up in the air. And so you say, all right, well, at the end of it all, that would be the least of our problems, right, Mike? If you say, yeah, we canceled the trip or whatever, as long as everybody makes it through and they're healthy, That's the number one thing. But it was a disappointment. Yeah, I'm sorry that you had to cancel it. But it's funny how just 12 days ago, there was to be a family discussion to make a decision.

But 10 days ago, you'd have to be a lunatic to even consider doing such a thing. Like things changed that quickly. How is the family? Like, is everybody feeling well? I just want to make sure the Honickman family is doing okay. Well, yeah, knock on wood, everybody's okay. I guess, you know, we go around the hoop every day. How's everybody doing?

Oh, we got a tiny little cop. Oh, yeah, a little sniffle here. You know, everybody seems to be knock on wood or whatever you're supposed to knock on. Everybody seems to be knock on wood or whatever you're supposed to knock on. Everybody seems to be okay. What about at your family? You've got so many different ages in your family. You're telling me about your little kids

and your older kids. Everybody okay at your place? Everybody's okay. The toughest part was basically convincing my 18-year-old that he couldn't go visit his friends like uh the whole idea that you know at the very beginning i think when this maybe 12 days ago for example there was a thought like oh if i just go to visit one friend that's okay but what you've done is you've kind of you've entered another home and then you're kind of

bringing that all back to the home you're in and they're already kind of going back and forth between two homes which is a whole separate situation but uh so now we've got everybody kind of on the same page so basically nobody's visiting this home except the six of us and when my teenagers are not here, nobody's, same thing's happening there. So we're basically taking every measure we can to keep us all healthy and safe. And you said something really important because we taught,

and this is what we were talking off the top about how things are changing, and I don't mean this figuratively, literally by the minute, right? So you asked about our family. So we didn't go on our trip. Um, but on the Saturday, which was a week ago, Saturday, we had everybody come over here and, and they all slept over. We had a big sleepover at, at, at, at, uh, at Lauren and Kathy's. And, but we, after that, as things were changing by the day, it was like, okay,

you know what? And Asher and my son said, and Laura said, you know, maybe we'll stay away. You know, we'll let you and mom just, you know, we won't bring like, cause we were planning, Oh, well, we'll babysit the grandchildren. That'll be fun. You know, they said, well, wait a minute, maybe we shouldn't be doing that. Right. And that all changed. And that was literally just within days.

Where now we're not, you know, we're not seeing people. My daughter came over yesterday and we went for a walk together, but we were literally on the other side of the street from each other. Oh, that far. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, we're walking, you know, walking around the block and we're talking, you know, I don't need a microphone. I can, somebody can hear me 10 blocks away. So, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm just, you know, uh, as my wife always, Kathy always says, I don't have an indoor voice. You know, as my wife always, Kathy always says, I don't have an indoor voice. So, you know, like, so I'm walking around and Laura and I are walking and we're talking, you know. But that's a week after, just a week after everybody's here, right?

Right. And we're just, we even had friends who said, hey, listen, we're coming up to your area of the woods because we're going to got to drop our dog off at the dog groomer. You want us to stop by? No, maybe a week ago we would have said, Oh yeah, of course. Right. Now it'd be one. And these are very close friends. I said, no, no, no, you're not stopping by. Right. Sorry. Right. And they would probably wouldn't even have been thinking about that now. And that's the world we're living

in. And that's why, you know, and I know I've sort of come around the circle here, Mike, but, but, but that's why when I, when I was, when we were talking off the top and I was expressing my frustration, um, and you know, and maybe those politicians and those medical officers of health would say, well, you said it yourself, Lauren, everything's changing by the, well, no, here's the difference. You know, what's happening, you know, what's going on. You understand of why things don't change within 10 hours in the sense that if you're going to ask a business to close, ask them to close on a Monday and then ordering them to close on a Tuesday, you know, just tell us that.

If somebody, if a reporter, if somebody asked a question and you know what's going to happen, just tell us when it's going to happen. If it can't happen today, let's have it happen. You know, the prime minister hasn't engaged the Emergency Act, the Federal Act, which is so fascinating, of course, if you're into history, that his father in the old War Measures Act invoked it at a time when you think about, when you compare the two incidents now and then, it seems so much different back then. now and then seems so much different back then. But, you know, now the rumor is,

well, he is going to maybe do it tomorrow or after they have a conversation with the premiers. And that's what, I get back to the frustrating part for me is that, well, let's just do it now. You don't need to go through, well, I'm going to meet with the premier. I'm going to talk. Do it now. But, Lor, let's talk about diplomacy for a minute, right? Because earlier you were talking about how Trudeau, he shut down the borders, but he had an American exception. And it seemed rather curious, why does he have this exception for Americans?

But then the very next day, it all crystallized. It was, to me, that was diplomacy. He's got to work with Trump, right? He's got to kind of get aligned with Trump and do a united effort of that nature. So there's a lot of politics. I actually think Trudeau's being rather shrewd here in that he's getting what he needs without risking, you know, pissing off the orange monster down south. Like, I think that's a great example of diplomacy. Go ahead. Even if it is diplomacy, even if you're saying that I've got to do this in a way that I don't, to use your words, that legal term, piss off the man south of the border.

Right. Then tell me that now. Don't give me the gobbledygook answers about, well, we're looking at the situation because the situation needs to be looked at. When we look at it, we look at it and then it's a situation. We're going to reevaluate everything's on the table and the situation will be evaluated as the situation is evaluated. Now that that's nothing that, that, that, and that's messaging. That's media training one-on-one. But what, but I don't disagree with you. I agree that he has to, he had a lot of hot potatoes to juggle.

I agree with that. But that's what you say. So on that Wednesday, when he's not shutting down the U.S. border, when people are going, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, it's out of control in the U.S. The U.S. is in Italy, but oh my goodness, it's out of control there. And we're leaving that border open. So what would I be saying to him if I had been in that audience as a reporter, or if he had been on a witness stand, if I was in a courtroom, or he should have said on

his own, is that, look, can't shut it down yet. I've got a president that we have to deal with. We've got issues on trade. We will shut it down. What we're hoping for is we're looking for maybe 24, 48 hours at the most. So why don't we just try and stay away from that border right now while Canada and the U.S. works out the logistics. That's how I would have answered it. That's what I would have demanded. But again, I'm giving him

credit as well, Mike. He's done a lot of things that are right, but it's the, it's the, and it's not just him, by the way, it's, it's, we, we've seen this in the, on the provincial level as well. We've seen it, as I told you, with the different office, medical officers of health answer the question at the time, if you're not going to over, if you're not going to react now, and you're not going to do something because you know, at the back of your head, we've got an emergency, a declaration of, we've got no time for, I guess, you know, what I'm trying to say, Mike, is we've got no time for political messaging. Now we've got, and I call political, I mean, trying to message, trying to manage the message. We got no time for media training, managing the message.

Now we're in a crisis. Here it is. People aren't stupid. Yes, the U.S. border is the most wide open border. And we've got to do that same thing, Mike, same thing about at the airport, about when what type of screening procedures were taking place at the airport. Over and over again, we started talking about, well, well, we've got, you know, people are coming in when when the crisis first happened. Well, well, we've got, you know, people are coming in when when the crisis first happened and you're starting to hear things about people from all the hotbeds in the world are just coming into the country. Why aren't we shutting the border? Why? Why did it take till last week to do that? Not the right answers. It was always, well, you know, the situation.

It was always, well, you know, the situation, you know, I think one of the nuclear hot buttons was the epidemiology and the advice of public health. Well, no, come on. Let's overreact. Why can't we overreact? That would be the question. That's the only question. I'm not a genius. I just would have asked that question.

Why are we overreacting? Why are we trying to react in a way that's measurable? Why do we want a measurable response when we're dealing with a virus that kills? Why do we want a measurable response? Why don't we want an overreactive response? I've never had that answered yet. Okay. And nobody maybe has asked the question. Well, I want to talk about the media and their coverage of COVID-19. But to answer your

rhetorical question there, I think it's the economy's stupid. Is that the hesitancy by politicians to what you would call overreact, I'm imagining is because of the devastating effect this is going to have on employment rates and small businesses, on TMDS, and basically the economy. But let's talk about... Has it helped at all? Has it helped?

The economy has been tanking. We're all living through it. I totally agree with you. Listen, there may be people out in Eastern Canada or in other parts of Canada right now where it's not as bad, quote unquote, as it is here in Ontario or in BC or whatever, and maybe say, well, you know, we don't need to overreact that way because we're okay. But I get it. I get it. But at this time now, I don't think, I don't think that the over, if we overreacted now,

that somehow things would get any worse from an economical point of view. Now, let me preface that by saying, look, if there was an actual shutdown, if there was an actual lockdown and a shutdown, and in order to stay indoors and every business closed and nothing was happening, and it lasted for more than two to three weeks, yeah, devastating. There's no doubt about it. And if the government is saying to itself, look, we don't want to get to that, that, that position, that's got to be a last resort. Sure. I get it. I get that. I, I, but I think that there comes a point where you say you don't want

to lose control of it. You don't want to have to say at the end of all of it, had we done this, then it would not have been as bad. That's all. That's all you want to avoid, Mike. You don't want to be able to look back and say, wow, had we closed that border at that time, this would have happened because we didn't want to do that because we didn't want the economy to tank as much as it has already tanked because this is life and death. Look at the Canadian Olympic Committee made a great decision today. They're not sending their athletes to the Olympics. Somebody may say, maybe Japan, maybe others may say, wow, isn't that an overreaction? That's not until July. And you'd say, no, no, it's not. Because even if things, even if God willing, by July, everything is okay. Let's say everything was okay by then. And you'd say, wow, we're not

part now. We took our athletes. Oh, my God, why did they do that? Why did they pull out in March? You'd say, it's okay. It's okay. Because we'll do it next time. It's okay. They had to do that. That's what I feel is sort of missing.

That's what's been frustrating is I know we want to have measured reactions, but I don't think we can afford to have measured reactions right now. And I think, I think that's why we need to do things in the way that, that some people would say is, is a little overboard. I think that's why I got frustrated and have been so frustrated hearing so many answers the way things have happened. And then 24 hours later, you throw your hands up in the air and you go, oh, look at this, now they're doing it today. What in the world changed? Nothing. Talk to me about, you were a longtime member of the media.

You mentioned City TV and then CP24 and elsewhere. Tell us what your analysis of the current media coverage of COVID-19, what do you think? Oh, you know what? It's like, I guess it's easy to be the old timer sitting there and watching the people who are out there doing the job that you did before. And somebody could look at me and say, Lauren, you never in all your years, you reported, you never dealt with what we're dealing with right now. And they'd be right. They'd be right. I never, thank goodness, never had to deal with it.

But I think for me again, and it's been the COVID-19 hasn't been any different than so many issues that I talked about with you back in August. It's just, again, you know, and I guess symptomatic is not the maybe a great word to be using in this time. But but it is symptomatic of where I just don't think the media today is, is ask the questions and pursues the answers that it needs to do. Um, you know, I, I think of my old colleague, former colleague, Colin Vaughn, and I, I, I was talking with, um, uh, cameraman, a close friend of mine, Al McCormick, who, uh, very close friend of our family and they're, they live out in PEI. And we were talking on the phone exactly about this. And I said, Al, God, I wish I was at that news

conference. And he laughed and he said, yeah, it'd be great if we were there and we would be doing it. And then he said, and rightfully said, yeah, can you imagine if Colin was there? Oh God. And we, and we go, Oh God. Cause we just know that those answers like we just we just walk away. Like you wouldn't just say, Mr. Minister, can you can you tell can you tell us why is the border still open for people to be walking into the country and and listening to a minister going? Well, we were we're taking all that, you know, and we were going to quarantine. to a minister going, well, we were taking all that, you know, and we were going to quarantine. Like, if I had been there, or certainly if Colin Vaught had been there and was interviewing that politician, never would get away with that type of answer. It's like, that doesn't make sense.

Well, what would you do? Tell us, because I'm curious. Well, you would just say, you would just say, no, no, but that's not an answer. That's not an answer, Mr. Minister. How is it that Canadians can feel okay that people are crossing a border here right now, but we're closing our borders to everyone else right now? How does that make sense? It doesn't make sense, does it? There's got to be a different, are you concerned? Is there a pushback that you're concerned about? Are you concerned about other people raising certain concerns?

What is it? Because what you're saying right now does not make sense, Mr. Mitch. So can you please tell the Canadian public what is the actual reason now you wouldn't close the border? Because you haven't told us a reason. That's what I would do. Because you haven't told us a reason. That's what I would do. Because at least then, at least even if, even if the answer wasn't even forthcoming, at least the questions would be there. At least you'd say, all right, he's not answering that for whatever reason. Because everybody in their position, we are depending now.

This isn't not, this is because you're dealing in a crisis, Mike. Because you're dealing in, again, life and death situations. All we have are these people out there telling us what's going on. That's all we have. And if the people who are asking the questions aren't at least doing everything and anything they can to get the answers that need to be done and not just stepping back and saying, okay, well, that's the answer today. And then who is going to ask the question? I can't ask it sitting here. You can't ask it.

These people are making themselves accessible every day. That's good. That's excellent. That's something that they have to do. But if they're going to be accessible, then they have to answer the tough questions. And that's been the problem for me. And I know that there may be reporters out there who would listen to this and say, Oh, listen to him, listen to him. He had never had to deal with this or whatever. Yeah. And,

and as I said, they're right. I haven't, but I've always, I always, to me, it was a matter of how am I going to help the people who will be watching me or listening to me that night on the air or whatever how is it i want to be able for those people to say yeah lauren's asking what i don't that's that's the important thing so last week the the key thing was how do you close a border but let the u.s border open like like you just don't and and it's a matter of, Oh, well, this is what he said. And that's it. And he, you know, and this is what the prime minister, that's not good enough. I guess that's what I'm saying. We'll make a difference at the end of the day. We'll make a difference as to how many people live and die through this crisis. Probably not, or I'm sure it won't make a difference. All it is, is information. And that's

what we need. And in order to get the information and the true and correct information, you got to be able to push back. You got to be able to say, no, doctor, I understand. Thank you. I understand what you, that doesn't make sense. Doctor doesn't make sense. This is why it doesn't make sense, doctor. It doesn't make sense. This is why it doesn't make sense to me and every other person out there who's listening. And that's what I'd be doing. That's what I'm doing as I'm sitting there watching the TV. I'm saying, come on, somebody say this. Somebody ask him that.

That's what's missing for me. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to ask if there's anybody working today in the mainstream media that you've thought okay that person that that that guy or gal that man or woman is doing a great job is there anybody you'd shout out as doing the type of journalism i think there's oh sure and i I think that's important. Thank you for saying that. I mean, there are a lot of really good reporters and excellent people out there who I read every day, listen to every day. Like, for example, I'll give you an example.

Laurie Goldstein, Toronto Sun. To me, he is right at, if I'm giving you my top five, I'd love if somebody, if Sun Media or Post Media put Laurie Goldstein at all these news conferences, I know I'd say to myself, there's somebody who I know, who understands, who I say to myself he he cuts through i i just used him as one of of many examples um kevin donovan at the toronto star one of the great if not the best investigative reporters maybe the only one left maybe the only one left i could go i could go through many and you're right you're right there are there are people out there that, uh, that do ask, that do ask the right questions. Um, that, that, so I, I don't want to be,

I don't want to take that brush, that proverbial brush and tar. I'm not trying to, uh, tar the entire media. I'm saying that there's just, just, there's, there's too much out there, uh, of people who are covering these issues that are just sitting back. They're asking a question. They're getting the answer. And then they move on. And you say, well, no, wait. No, no, no, don't move on.

Don't move on. Wait a minute. No, we can't move on. We've got to understand this right now. We've got to understand this right now, especially in the type of environment that we're living in, where things are changing the way they change now as quickly as they do. And that's the important part. But I do say this, and I do understand this, that for everyone out there right now, there is no reason. there is no reason you don't see opposition

parties this whole idea of partisanship and politicians aren't smacking each other like and I think that's great and I do think that there are so many good things that are happening now I do want to say that there are a lot of good things that are happening

from the accessibility point of view as I say I think that Doug Ford, for example, has shown people, and I think this has worked out very, very well in a lot of ways. He has shown people that this is a man that actually cares. There are many people out there who thought, when you mentioned Doug Ford's name before all of this, who probably would say if they hated him or they didn't like him or whatever. So there's a lot of good things that are happening. And I do believe, I want to say this, I do believe that the people who are working behind the politicians and everybody who

have to make the decisions, I'm not trying to cast aspersions in the sense that they obviated their duties. I'm not trying to say that. I know it's a time now you don't want to be critical of people because all of us just want everybody to be safe. Don't wish anybody any bad. But it's just information right now, and it's information overload, let's be clear. We've got to be able to separate the things we need and what is important. And that's where the media comes in. So I do appreciate how hard it is.

And, and, and it may be easy for me to be sort of somewhat critical at this moment, but on the other hand, I'm like everybody else. I just need the right and correct information. I need it. That's it's not even want anymore. We need it right now correct information. I need it. It's not even want anymore. We need it right now. And that's what's important. Now, this is an episode of Toronto Mic'd, so I'm contractually obligated to point out that Laurie Goldstein's daughter, of course, is a member of the great Toronto band, the Toronto duo, July Talk. So, Lauren, when you're on YouTube, go listen to some July Talk.

I think her name is Lydia. I didn't know that. Yeah, Laurie's daughter has some pretty great success, actually, with July Talk. So you can listen to that later. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. And it's funny how things change so rapidly because this is episode 602 earlier today i pieced together episode 601 because i decided to phone

all the toronto mic partners i don't even like calling them sponsors because I'm trying to build a community here with FOTMs. And when it's safe, I want us to have, you know, TMLX events. And I really do want to foster a community here. And when a brand decides to help fuel the real talk, they're not just like, okay, that's just not a brand that's going to cut me a check every month. I really do consider us partners. So I took some time to call up everybody. I called Anthony from Palma Pasta. So shout out to Palma Pasta. Go to palmapasta.com. I talked to Troy at Great Lakes Brewery. I wish you and I were cracking open a beer right now, Lorne. I talked to

Brad from Ridley Funeral Home. Ridley Funeral Homes, they don't sponsor every episode of Toronto Mike, but they do sponsor one episode every single month. So I talked to him, Laura from StickerU.com,

and Austin from the Keitner Group, and I also talked to Banjo Dunk from Whiskey Jack, and I asked all the partners, like, what has changed for you in this age of social distancing? Because, Lauren, think about it. A funeral home, let's say somebody you care about passes away

and you want to pay your respects at the funeral home. It's radically different today than it would have been a month ago. Oh my goodness. I didn't, you're right. You're absolutely right. And even, right.

So I asked Brad and he told us, so this is episode 601. I urge everybody to check it out. It's just interesting to hear, like, you know, they don't have the, uh,

restaurant part of Palma Pasta open. I don't even know what today's announcement from doug ford i don't know how much that outdates some of the things said by uh troy at great lakes and anthony at palma pasta uh as of today you could still go to great lakes brewery and stock up i don't know if they're going to be allowed to be open palma pasta is a restaurant like i feel like that's probably an essential service. People go there to get food. So that probably stays open,

but I don't know, but I just want to say, uh, hello. And I want to tell FOTMs that, you know, the people who have, uh,

stepped up to fuel the real talk right now, like they need our support more than ever, uh, blessings to you, leave a Fumka who purposely got her lunch today from Palma Pasta just to support Palma Pasta for supporting Toronto Mic'd.

I just want everybody to do what they can to let the sponsors and the partners of Toronto Mic'd know that it's good business to be fueling the real talk and keeping this going. So just shout out to all the Toronto Mike partners.

100%. And now I'm thinking of you, Lauren, and I'm thinking, okay, you're a lawyer now. I'm about to ask you some legal questions about how it COVID-19 rules and how it, the legal rights,

et cetera. But you as a broadcaster, as a journalist, even hearing you talk there, I could tell you want to be back in the game. You might not be able to get like a, I don't know if we could get you a media pass. That might be difficult to score for you. But I do know a way you could have your own show.

Have you considered podcasting? Well, you and I have talked about it. Have you considered podcasting? Well, you and I have talked about it. You have tried to convince me of why I would enjoy it and do it, and I think you've almost got me there. I think I'd like to in some ways. You know, the problem for me, of course, is the time,

and that's the hard part about practicing law is most certainly a full-time job. But yeah, I'm thinking of doing that. And I certainly may be thinking quite seriously of coming on board, becoming part of the Toronto Mike family and doing that and bringing in, uh, bringing in, you know, going over maybe once a week talking about lots of different important legal issues that everybody needs to talk about. I, I, I'm hoping we get to a day now, Mike, where, where we're back to normal and we

can start talking about other issues, right? Right. Um, that, that would be, that would be great to be able to say, yeah, okay, let's, let's, let's get something up and running and let's start talking about these issues that are really, uh, that are important. But right now, of course, we're all consumed by the one important thing. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, you've, uh, you've, I've, I've, I've listened to what you do. I've listened to a lot of people in your family, quote unquote, your podcasting family. And I think you almost got me there, my friend. We'll see.

Great. By the way, your friend, on that note, your friend Peter Gross wants me to say hi to you. My old buddy Peter, who's doing great by the way in the podcast that you got him doing with and in both podcasts right he does one with uh with john gallagher and then he does his own on on the racing horse racing so it's great i'm glad that's that's fabulous for peter to be able to be doing that what a what a great vehicle that, and you got him up and running and doing that stuff. And I hope it just continues to grow for him. And by the way, you know, you

talked about me practicing law and I'm going to have to, you know, in a couple of minutes, you know, say goodbye because I got to go practice law. I'm working like so many of my colleagues, all my colleagues in my office, I'm working from home. Is that a 3 PM call you're supposed to be on? Well, I'm right now, right now I, I,

I set aside, I, I put in my calendar, you know, uh, uh, you know, conversation with Mike,

you know, two to three. And I, I said, wow, that's right. You got to give me a heads up when you do that. That way I know I got the hour deadline.

So if I could steal five minutes here at the end then. Sure, sure. In a nutshell, if they say lockdown, let's say they tell us we can only leave our homes to get food or pharmaceuticals, okay? Let's say that's the new rule at some point. Do they have the legal right to do that? Well, they will.

That's one of the things they would be able to do if the Prime Minister invoked the National Emergency Act. Is that the War Measures Act? Is that the War Measures Act? Well, it's that. The old War Measures Act is now subsumed, as we like to use that word. Isn't that a great word, subsumed, as part of the new act. So under the new act, there's a whole host of powers.

And by the way, that is why provinces can declare states of emergency as well. In order, it's the enforcement aspect, right? Because think about this, Mike, and it goes right to your question. Here's a great example, and it sort of ties into what we were talking about before. So we have all these people who went away on March break, and they went to all different parts of the world, on March break and they went to all different parts of the world and they're all being quote asked to stay home for 14 days and self isolate for 14 days. Right now,

the obvious question is how would that ever be enforced? Right? How would that be enforced? So you get to the border, you say, you know, you're coming across and a border agent says, you know, you're coming home from wherever. I said, OK, can you please ensure that you self-isolate for 14 days? No problem. And then what happens? So, you know, you just have to rely on that people are going to be honest and that people are going to do what they want to, you know, that say what they're going to do. People are going to do what they want to, you know, that say what they're going to do.

So then you see video and you see pictures from yesterday of people doing complete opposite of what everybody should be doing. And you say to yourself, how can we get them to stop that? And the only way you can do that is you if you have an emergency type power. if you have an emergency type power and that's how the government, the federal government could, if they, and I think they'll do this. That's my prediction is in the next couple of days, you'll, you'll hear the feds say, we're, we're going to invoke this as well. And that is to, to be able to order people in a certain type of lockdown situation. And, and yes, there would be enforcement procedures.

If right now, for example, in Ontario, with the premier saying that all non-essential services, you know, have to close, well, certainly what's going to happen if somebody says, well, I don't care. I'm going to keep my business open. I'm not essential, but I'm going to keep it open. Well, they could be subject to fines. And that, of course, raises the whole issue again. Do you want to start penalizing people in this day and age? Well, but maybe you have to. So it gives governments an enormous amount of power, and that's why they don't want to exercise it. But extraordinary times, extraordinary power. And if people can't do this on their own, and that's what it appears to be, and that's why you shake your head,

then you want the government to step in and say, yes, we are going to have to now take the power that we have, even though it might interfere with your civil liberties, your freedom of choice to just go where you want to go right now, we just can't let you do it. And wouldn't you understand, Mike? Oh, yeah. Would you have a problem with that? No, absolutely not.

No, no, I think we should have shut it all down long ago, but got to get you to your meeting. I got a quick, quick question from another Lorne. Lorne Katz wants me to ask you, Lorne Honigman, about Seahe Chinese Restaurant. Oh, my goodness. Seahe. Oh, we spent a lot of days there. Do you know C-High, Mike? Have you heard of C-High? C-High up on Bathurst, south of Wilson, a historic Chinese restaurant in Toronto. Not far from my children's pediatrician. When I was in high school, Lorne Katz and a lot of other people we spent many a night at Seaheim restaurant on the weekend making an absolute mess mess but having the time of our life and uh and that was uh I I grew up very just a few blocks away from Seaheim just just north of Seahawks, and Lorne Katz.

And I haven't seen Lorne Katz in a long, long, long time, but I know I've seen him since Seahawks, so I can say that. Great restaurant. It's closing down. And it's really sad when I heard it, but it was an institution in that part of North York. I don't know if you can hear the song I'm playing due to the way we're connected, but I'm playing Bob Dylan's Tangled Up in Blue. Oh, and I can't hear it, but for those who care, my favorite Dylan song of all time. And in my mind, one of his greatest songs of all time.

So when you do come over, when things are back to normal and you come over to kick out the jams, we'll play this again. And that time you can hear this. Lorne Honigman, what an absolute pleasure having you on Toronto, Mike. Thanks for taking the time. You may now drop off and make your business call Mike thank you so much for having me and to everybody listening to everybody listening the most important thing to remember is let's all stay safe and I wish every single

person everybody and every politician as well nothing Nothing but the best. Nothing but the best of them and their family. Let's get through this, everybody. And that brings us to the end of our 602nd show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. I'm still trying to convince Lorne Honickman he needs to be on Twitter, but right now he is not there. So don't even go looking for him. Although your son's on Twitter, right, Asher? Oh, he is. He is. He be on Twitter, but right now he is not there. So don't even go looking for him. Although your son's on Twitter, right, Asher?

Oh, he is. He is. He's on Twitter. Find an Asher Honickman. That's the closest you're going to get. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Sticker U is at Sticker U. The Keitner Group are at The Keitner Group. And Banjo Dunk is at Banjo Dunk with a C. See you all next week. This podcast has been produced by TMDS and accelerated by Rome Phone.

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