Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Lowest of the Low KOTJ: Toronto Mike'd #264

Episode Date: September 7, 2017

Mike and Lowest of the Low play and discuss their ten favourite songs. Lowest of the Low also perform live and we hear an unreleased re-recorded version of Rosy and Grey.

Right now, right now, right now it's time to... Take out the jams, motherfuckers! I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love. I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love. I'm in Toronto Mike where you wanna get the city love. My city love me back, oh my city love. Welcome to episode 264 of Toronto Mike, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a local independent brewery producing fresh craft beer. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me to kick out the jams are lowest of the low members, Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols. So welcome back, Ron. Thank you, Mike. Nice to be back. Ron Hawkins and Lawrence Nichols.

So welcome back, Ron. Thank you, Mike. Nice to be back. And welcome to the Toronto Mike Studios, Lawrence. I am excited to be here for the first time. Am I allowed to call you Larry? No. Stick to Lawrence.

Sure. Let's go with that. So I'm going to tell everybody listening that Ron Hawkins was on episode 175. And I'm just going to read the description. If you want to go back and kind of do the deep dive with Ron. And then before you come back here to catch up with us all. And that's episode 175. Mike chats with lowest of the low lead singer and songwriter Ron Hawkins about Shakespeare, my butt. Success for which you're unprepared.

about Shakespeare, my butt, success for which you're unprepared, Gord Downie, the perfect marriage of peace and quiet in Tim Thompson's Maple Leaf Montage, and much, much more. I remember that. All worthwhile topics to visit. Like it was a year ago.

And you know, since then, Tim Thompson, who's coming back in a few weeks to kick out the jams himself, he put together sort of an updated version of the Maple Leaf montage set to Peace and Quiet because he had to get the kids in there, the Austin Matthews and everybody. So there's like a new version from February

which is updated. He does magnificent work, that Tim. We're hoping, I guess on one level, we're hoping that it will become irrelevant sometime in the next few years, right? Because they'll win the cup and then they won't be able to do that montage anymore. He'll have to make a new montage. But personally, selfishly, I hope they don't ever win again.

It's been 50 years. You might get your wish. Yeah. But according to my calculations, we're only three more years away. I've got it all worked out. So in three years. You're taking the salary cap into consideration. Of course. I've got it all worked out. So in three years. You're taking the salary cap into consideration. You've got it all mapped out.

Just got to lock down the kids. Will Nazem Kadri be here when we win? That's a great question. I don't think so. No, huh? JVR? JVR, I don't think so. And even Tyler Bozak, I think he might be another guy who just misses it.

But they'll take us there. Are you guys making these names up? We were chatting earlier, speaking of hockey, we were chatting earlier about the number of musicians who were also goaltenders. Some names. What were those names again, Ron, besides yourself, obviously? Some of the ones I know are Gord Downie. I believe Greg Keeler.

Myself. Not Dave Bedini, right? Dave Bedini is a forward, I think. I think you're right. John Sutton, formerly of the Weaker Dance. Flipping it around the other way, Henrik Lundqvist is a musician. I think he has like a little... Is that really flipping it around or is that... Well, I mean, he's a goaltender first. Right. I mean, I don't know if that's the way it works in his mind. Here's the question. Would he be a musician? If he wasn't Henrik Lundqvist, the Don Draper of the NHL,

would he still be a musician? That's the question. Yeah. I mean, does he consider the hockey his day job? It definitely pays his mortgage. Just to put strings on the guitar, right? Exactly. Yeah.

Get him an artisanal strap. Just yesterday, it was the first time. Splash and Boots were here. And if you don't have toddlers, you likely don't know who Splash and Boots are. And if you have toddlers, they're forever in your living rooms and in your homes and stuff.

But they were the first to use the two swing arms. But today, they're going to get quite a workout, right? Because you guys brought instruments. Yes, we did. And we're going to see how this goes. But I only have these two mics and you can direct them any way you want. But we got guitars and harmonicas and vocals.

Did you consult with Andrew Stokely? Did he tell you what to do? So you know Stokely? I don't. I know I've met him. You know of him. I don't know him. And I've listened to a couple of his episodes on your podcast.

Is that right? He's a big Lois Delaloe fan. You guys made that name up, right? I actually just, for the first time, he lives in the middle of like, I want to say nowhere. I was, where was I? I was at Queenston Heights and Niagara-on-the-Lake area. And he's around there. And I was just tweeting where I was.

And he's like, you got to come by. And I made my first trip to the Stokely Estate. It's like a compound, man. You know, it's just enormous. Swing arms and mics everywhere. Swing arms and mics everywhere. And lots of Star Wars stuff, too. Hey.

Hey. That's all right. Stately Stokely Manor. Not bad. Let's talk about Do The Right Now. So Do The Right Now, what day is today? The 7th of September. So this comes out tomorrow.

This comes out tomorrow. It's the album release eve. And Do The Right Now has a single on it, which I'd like to play, and then I got some questions. But before I play Power Lines, can you tell me who exactly is in, this is a Lowest of the Low record, Do The Right Now.

Yes. So who is in Lowest of the Low right now? We haven't tabulated all of the people that are in Lowest of the Low right now. You might be in Lowest of the Low right now. I hope so. It's now like a collective, like Chumbawamba. A loose collective. No, it's, you know,

David, original drummer from Lowest to the Low, myself and Lawrence are the Originality members. And we've got Derek Brady playing bass guitar for us. And we have Michael McKenzie playing guitar, electric guitar. And that's where we're sitting. Also, Greg Smith will be playing some bass guitar for us as well.

He'll be playing some bass guitar. There's a bit of a platooning system we have going there. Well, not to be confused with G.E. Smith from Saturday Night Live. No, let's not make that a confusion. So are some of these cats do-good assassins as well? Yeah, Derek Brady is a do-good assassin. Our friend Jody Brumell played some drums as well on the record, and he is a do-good assassin.

So it's a very 21st century band conundrum, which is trying to keep a band together from 1991, and to some cases 1985, to 2017, has proved to be a difficult thing for everybody and anybody anybody i think you two is the only band i can imagine that has done that and we see where that led the uh pearl pearl jam left their drummers gone that's right they did replay the drummer like 100 times or something the drummer's been changed several times but uh otherwise they're still they're still going since like 1990 or something. So Lawrence, what year did you join Lewiston?

The year I actually joined the band, where I got my stripes, my leather jacket. The members-only jacket? So it was probably 2003, 2002. It was in the early aughts. I was like the eternal guest all the way through the 90s. I feel like Lawrence might have been at more shows in the early 90s than I was at.

So he was always on the stage with us. Yeah. So I got to play with him all the time, and then I was a rusty nail with Ron from the late 90s, and then that merged back into the lowest of the low. And the solo records Lawrence has played on. I just want to say I have never been a do-good assassin. That's the one thing, actually.

But my lady, Alex McMaster, plays the cello for the do-good assassins. It is. The family is represented there. So, you know, Ron just can't do anything without us. It's a blended family. And, Ron, Lawrence tells me you don't have a cell phone. Can that possibly be true?

That is true wow yeah I've still managed to hold out and I get sort of equal responses

that's amazing I envy you and what is wrong with you? I couldn't decide which way to go actually in one breath it's like that is amazing that's amazingly wrong

good for you because I can't imagine I can't decide which way to go sometimes too because clearly it's a pain in the ass half the time that I don't have one for other people and for myself. And there have been a few teachable moments where I haven't had one that would have helped a lot.

But then there's also the side of people who judge you for it and like, well, you're a father. Oh, right. And I'm like, yeah, since prehistory, well, you're a father. Oh, right. Yeah. Because you're the... Since prehistory, you know, fathers have not had cell phones. That's right.

Until very recently. But now it's assumed, I think there's an assumption now by others that you have one. Like, so, you know, if I needed to tell you... Me personally or just people in general? People in general of your age group. Yeah. That like, let's, for example, I went for a bike ride before at lunchtime, I went for a quick bike ride. What if I blow a tire like 15 kilometers away?

I need to tell Ron Hawkins that I will be late getting back to my home because I'm, whatever, I'm taking transit or walking or whatever. I would think, oh, I'll call Ron's cell or maybe I'll direct message him on Twitter. But he'll pick it up on his phone because that's the way the world works now, you think. But you'd be SOL. Like, you would just show up and then no one would answer the door. Right. And I would make some assumptions. Maybe not the tire wouldn't be the first thing I'd go to, but

I would make some assumptions and I might get close to it. And knowing me, I'd wait around on your porch until you got here and then we'd probably do it anyway. Cool. And then you'd say, Mike, you're a father. It's important to be where you say you're going to be. What do you do riding a bike in those shorts? I think it's divorced fathers who need

a phone. I think that's the difference. You need to be reachable when you're not working. Well, there's still time. I'm going to play a little Power Lines, and then we're going to talk about the song, and we're going to talk about

radio play in Canada. So you can prepare your notes while we listen to Powerline. Okay. It's a long day Before you sleep Scattered and strange Like the hours you keep There's no time To look before you leave.

We're going to let this get to the chorus, and then we're going to... This is not one of your jams, I should point out. Let the spotlight beseech you, the darkness can't reach you, the power lines. The crackle above you, the city that loves you has come alive. All right, first of all, long time Lois of the Low fan here. That's a catchy ditty. Like, that's a great track. And I'm going to guess that there's not a lot of stations that would play this song. That's just a guess.

I'm not in the industry or anything. So who would play this song? I'm trying to think of who is playing this song. There's a radio station in Prince Edward County, I believe. There's a radio station in Halliburton. There's a radio station called the CBC. There's a little station called the CBC Radio 2 that is playing it.

I believe it got a feature on Edge 102. The two stations, the commercial stations in town that should be playing this are Indie 88 and 102.1. I'm glad to hear especially and 102.1. Sure. Right. I'm glad to hear, especially 102.1 played the mess out of Shakespeare in my butt. I should know.

I was listening back then, and every hour I got a Shakespeare in my butt song. I loved it. It was great. This song is as good as any of those tracks. It's really catchy. It sounds modern. And I get the feeling like it wouldn't be played on those stations now. But I hope I'm wrong.

I think we're in a singular period of time where possibly the first, maybe the second generation of people whose kids don't look at their music and go, ugh. There's not a massive, giant chasm between our children and ourselves whereas our parents and their parents for sure had a massive chasm between the kinds of music they liked uh so i think we're in a unique situation where it could easily be the case where we share music and often we do share music but i don't think the media outlets have come around to that yet there's still this sense of,

this old 50s and 60s sense of teenagers have money, and they're sort of tastemakers, and they're sort of always advertising and pitching to teenagers or young adults, and I think they're missing out on the point that people who are older have money to burn and to spend and have taste still. It's almost like if you were rebranded as a new band, like a new Toronto band that sounded

like this, I think that would... Well, what's frustrating is we've been as much as told that by people inside those organizations. So it does come down to some kind of ageism. And, you know, as two white middle-aged men, I'm tired of being, of my voice not being heard. The oppression is, it's got to stop. It's funny because I'm staring at Maestro Fresh West right now

as I often do during these podcast episodes. But he... We won't ask. It's a picture of Maestro Fresh West, everybody. He's not tied up in the corner here. Lawrence, thank you for clarifying that.

I don't want people to stop visiting my basement. But what he told me was that he's still putting out good new music, but all you'll hear is on the local throwback station, they'll throw on Let Your Backbone Slide. That's what they'll play from Maestro Fresh West. They won't play the new stuff. And I just think it's a darn shame

that a lot of these bands, all because they were big in the 90s or 80s or whatnot. I'm going to have the same chat with Gore Depp, by the way. He's coming in. The Spoons have some great new tracks, but all you hear is the stuff from the early to mid-80s. I think there's a bit of a human reflex involved there, even for people like us who may feel like we're even victims of it to some degree like I just saw Paul McCartney in

Chicago took my daughter to she became a Beatle maniac last year so we went to see Paul McCartney in Chicago and he played a lot of new songs and I will admit and I'm not proud to say this that I was sort of half paying attention and I do this and I'm a songwriter and if anybody in the world shouldn't do that it should be me and I found myself doing it I'm a songwriter, and if anybody in the world shouldn't do that, it should be me, and I find myself doing it, because somewhere in the back of your brain, there's this sense like, well, you know, after Lady Madonna, you know,

or whatever year you think he peaked or whatever, you know, there's this sense, but then I think even for him, like Pitchfork, I remember Pitchfork had a thing about one album that was maybe five years ago or something, and they were raving about it, and they said, if anybody in the world should be able to sit back on their laurels, it should be Paul McCartney, but he doesn't because he loves music,

and they were sort of raging about this one record. And then there's been some stinkers in there too, but anybody who's constantly working, and Costello's a good example. We should all live that long and play music that long. We're going to throw some knuckleballs on the floor. We can make some terrible music and then get past it. Yeah, and make some great music. So I think the problem is there's still this, there's ageism involved and there's a sense of like,

I don't know where this ever came into art, which is that the younger you are, the more profound your work will be, which in any other walk of life, you wouldn't even consider to be true. Like if you were a novelist, you wouldn't go, yeah, after that first novel. That's very true.

You'd expect as you grow older, there would be some... I think the assumption behind that, though, is that some of the best works of art come from suffering. And who knows better how to suffer than someone who's in their late teens or early 20s? I mean, that's your peak suffering time. Teenage angst has paid off well, and now I'm bored and old.

And also there's an upside to it as well. Nostalgia is kind of hard currency in a way in this business. And we're about to play you songs that I assume mean something to us. And some of them are going to be very old songs, no spoilers, but some of them will be old songs that meant something to us when we were much younger. And Let Your Backbone Slide, it's a stone classic. And I think that song should be played forever.

And yes, it would be wonderful if everybody came and said, now I want to hear what Maestro's doing now. That would be great too. But let's also, you know, remember that we're, you know, we're going to play a big show on Saturday night and there's going to be people there just to be reminded of what it was like when they were growing up. And I don't want to sit there and say, you're here for the wrong reason because that's not true. Well, to Ron's point when he's at Paul McCartney about nostalgia is,

myself for example, Shakespeare My Butt is one of my favorite albums of all time. We'll, what is it, That line from the Simpsons, but we'll, uh, do the right now be as, uh, you know, you know,

I can't, it doesn't do the right now is not a time machine that will make me a teenager again. Yeah. Like this is, how do you know that much? I don't know it yet. Actually.

I've only heard power lines after you've purchased it tomorrow. Then you'll know. And I miss the days of like when, when, when an anticipated album was coming out and that morning I would go off to Sam the Record Man downtown or even HMV downtown

or ANA or whatever. Nowadays, what is it? I download something on my laptop. Come on. Yeah, it's not quite the glamour. Download town. Download town. By the way,

Counting Crows fans are very upset that they were in town yesterday and they did not play Mr. Jones. I was reading about that this morning. They were, how can you not play Mr. Jones? Don't you care about us in Toronto? I'm cool with that. That's a hardcore move.

So with Lois of the Low, let's talk about the show you're talking about, Danforth Music Hall. Is that the one you're talking about? Yes, yes. And when is it? Saturday night. And if you were to dare,

I don't know, if you were not to play Salesman Cheats and Liars or whatever, would the lowest of the low fans be disappointed? They would dismember us, I think. Tear us limb from limb

live on stage. There was a guy in St. Catharines once who went out for a cigarette during the set and he missed, I think it was Bleed a Little Wild Tonight, came backstage after the show and said, you guys have to go back out there and play that song.

Cause I was, I was out smoking when you did it. He was, he was absolutely serious. But did you play it again? No. Was that man Andrew Stokely? It might've been,

I don't know. That might've been the time I met Andrew. Yeah. Bleed a Little Wild. No, no. So I think, yeah, I think people would, I think, but that might have been the time I met Andrew yeah wait a little while no no so I think yeah I think people would I think but I mean

no matter I mean each song on Shakespeare and Buddy is somebody's favorite song that's something that we've learned over the years

you know we could play 16 out of 17 songs and someone will be disappointed I think that's true in fact I'm going to play the unreleased

re-recording of Rosie and Gray very shortly. And I can't imagine a Lowell show without Rosie and Gray. You got to close with that. Come on. That's been the move. That's been the move. So Danforth Music Hall.

So the album comes out tomorrow. People can see you at Danforth Music Hall. Does it irk you? This one's more for Ron. fourth music hall. Does it irk you? This one's more for Ron. Does it irk you that these nostalgia guys like me want to hear Shakespeare, My Bud,

and you're still out there creating new music, and it's possible, I won't put words in your mouth, but it's possible you may think that some of your new music is some of the greatest creative art you've created in your life, but these guys just want to hear Bleed a Little Wild tonight. Possibly that anyone has ever created. Possibly. I don't want to pass judgment on it yet. but does that irk you in any way well you know

what i think it used to irk me a lot and i've actually been even guilty of the old uh you know i'm not a fucking jay box you know and and i'm i'm the worst person in the world to ask to make a set list i'm not really allowed to make the set list you know lawrence and dave often make the set list because if if i do so i will fill it full of the new songs and I'll be a little remiss as to how many old songs I'll play. And you won't play Mr. Jones And I might throw in Mr. Jones and people get really upset when I do that

No, and I wouldn't put in Mr. Jones and often times I've had people say to me I've even released a new solo record and played all the songs on the solo record and peppered it with a few other ones. And people are like, so you expect people to come to a show

and listen to 12 songs they've never heard before, albeit played very well and impressively. And in my mind, that doesn't compute as a weird thing to do. So I'm left out of that decision-making process. You don't get to create a set list. No. Maybe that's for the best.

That's a good thing. And as I've gotten older, I've come around to the idea that of course people want to hear those songs, and of course I should be honored and blessed that I have any songs that people want to hear 25 years later. So that's not lost on me.

That's maturity, folks. Yeah, I was going to say, that's the evolution of Ron Hawkins. It's good to hear that. Now, I need to be clear, people, because I think there's a little confusion in my head because you're talking, we're going to play songs. But so you're going to actually, lowest of the low,

Lawrence and Ron are going to play music with instruments, like live lowest of the low music. But in addition to that, after this break, we will actually kick out the jams. So instead of you each bringing 10 songs and having to stick around in my basement for like two and a half hours, you each have five songs and we'll kind of alternate and kick out the jams. So instead of you each bringing 10 songs and having to stick around in my basement for like two and a half hours, you each have five songs and we'll kind of

alternate and kick out the jams which will be great. But I want to hear you perform. But first I actually if it's okay with you guys, if I play the unreleased re-recorded version of Rosie and Grey because listeners of this podcast know every

episode of Toronto Mic'd except for one has finished with that song. Yeah, what was that? Why was that? It's a good reason. Em Griner was here and she wrote a song for my good friend who died of cancer. So I closed with that instead.

So now you feel bad. That's a good reason. I was hoping we could start a feud with Em Griner because that gets pressed. But no, you shut that business down right quick. M. Greiner, I can never say a bad word about M. Greiner. She's fantastic. Besides, she'd kick our ass.

She would, she would. So let's, maybe before I play it, Ron, can you tell me a story about recording this version of Rosie and Gray and why it's unreleased? Yeah, it was during the recording of a solo, Ron Hawkins' Do Good Assassins record called Garden Songs. And that was all fairly roots sounding.

It was full band, but it was, you know, very sort of country soul version of some four or five new songs and then a hand-picked version of a bunch of older songs, ballads, I guess, or close to ballads, and yeah, it was just one that we considered doing and everybody wanted to do, and in fact, we got in a pre-production and we were trying to work up a band version of it and just could never find, you know, talk about a song that's sort of beaten into our brains as musicians in the band that it has a lot, you, that there's a lot to live up to.

And we couldn't find a band arrangement that we thought did it justice or changed it enough that it would make sense to re-record it that way. So I did a more stripped-down version with pedal steel and acoustic guitar and stand-up bass and stuff like that. And as you said, so there you go. And I thought, you know what? We don't need that big intro on there. I'll just launch right in with the vocals. And, so there you go. And I thought, you know what? We don't need that big intro on there. I'll just launch right in with the vocals.

And the first thing you said to me was, do you know what I miss? The reason I like the long intro, the obvious reason is that I speak over it. So I talk over it at the end and I'll thank you. Lawrence, you actually listen to this podcast, don't you? Yes, I do. Like lots of episodes or just cherry-picked a couple?

I've listened to a whole bunch of them. I think the first one was when you had Sean McIndoe. Do I have that right? Yeah, that was a remote one. He was in Ottawa. We did that over Skype. Down Goes Brown.

Yeah, so that was, I followed him on Twitter and that was the first one I heard. I did a deep dive into some back episodes, but I probably did some cherry picking. But that was the first one I heard. I did a deep dive into some back episodes, but I probably did some cherry picking. But that's early days,

Down Goes Brown. You've been at this a while. Five years. You're doing fine service. No, thanks. That's great, because Down Goes Brown, I found he's not as funny

as he used to be. Have you noticed that he's not as funny as he used to be? Like he's a more serious sports analyst guy. We're going to get back to Rosie and Craig.

You like his earlier funny ones. I find him funny. I'm going to tell him he's a cool cat, but I think he's sold out, dare I say. He's cashing the checks by being a hockey analyst and losing a bit of that humor that I was drawn to in the beginning. I have to say, though, it was actually very fun listening to that

episode and then being completely surprised by Rosie and Gray suddenly showing up out of nowhere. I was like, hey, wait a minute. Wait a minute, he owes us money. That was my next phone call. We concluded you didn't, but still. Some beer coming your way, don't worry. Let's hear the Rosie and Gray

we'll call it the Gardens Sessions version. Well, I want to take a street car downtown Read Well, I want to take a streetcar downtown Meet Henry Miller and wander around Drink some Guinness from a tin Cause my UI check has just come in I'll wait and because

Everything is coming up Rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow Warms me today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine It won't go away I love it. And again, it doesn't have the long intro, so I can't use it at the end,

but fantastic. Talk over the singing. Right. That sounds sacrilegious to me. I don't know if I should. Although sometimes I talk a little long and I do end up talking over some of the vocals. But that's great. And thank you for bringing that.

That's an exclusive. Toronto Mike exclusive. I can use that when I promote this episode. Get all those nostalgia people back back on board that's great and it would be funny

I was thinking you each had to choose five jams to kick out but imagine you picked the list of the low songs that would be hilarious that's win win win

win win it's Kathleen Wynne tell me what you're going to play in my basement now. This is 264 episodes, and nobody's played a full song down here before. And this will be a broadcast premiere, I believe. I believe it is.

It's exclusive after exclusive down here. Yeah, this is a deep cut from side two. Would you be creeped out at all if I took some video? I've never done this during an episode, but I could take a little video of you guys playing down here. Feel free, yeah. That's why I rotated that cut.

As long as we can get Maestro in the back somewhere. I know, listen. I take that very seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. There's Maestro. I always laugh when people ask that question.

Like, can we take pictures? It's like, we're in this industry because we're narcissists. Of course you can film us. I think we were messed. At some point, they didn't let you bring good cameras into stadiums. Do you remember this? You'd go see a concert in the 90s or whatever, and they're like, no photography. They were protecting them.

They still do that. You can't go see Dave Chappelle with a cell phone. You've got to put it in lockdown at the beginning of the night. Right, because then no one will go to watch the HBO show or buy the album. I guess, yeah. Now, again, this studio, even though Stokely did a good job for the voice stuff,

you didn't optimize the studio for the music. So we'll see how this goes. I hope it'll work out. You guys are pros. I'll shut up now and let you take over. I'll take some videos. All right. Do you want to say what song this is?

Yeah, this is called Sister Jude. It's on the new Lois De La Record Do The Right Now. It's about well, it's not about suffragettes, but when you mentioned the, I think you mentioned the word suffragettes. Did you earlier? Because I thought we have to start a band called the Suffragettes. That's a big word for Lawrence.

I don't know. Yeah, did I? If I did, I'm impressed, but yeah. Anyway, Suffragettes. Okay. Look for it. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, did I? If I did, I'm impressed. But yeah. Anyway, Suffragents. Okay. Look for it. Yeah. Here we go. One, two, three.

Yeah. I am the sun, but I ain't too bright. Please help me get this right. But I ain't too bright Please help me get this right Beneath the sign of struggle and strife Cavemen and troglodytes Oh, ooh, sister Jude I'll bleed with you

You've been crucified Damned and denounced can't cap it out one for a beat and two for regret three for the suffragettes looks like it's farther the closer it gets well I know

we'll get there yet now who sister Jude will I believe in you I know we'll get there yet Oh, ooh, Sister Jude Girl, I believe in you Girl, are you satisfied With him and the night Hey, alright Yeah, one day

It's your way on the highway. No need to see it my way. I'll be there on that day. You finally blow away. All those breaks and patterns, snakes and ladders. Standing in your way. Out of the wind and out of the rain Out of our heads again Sorrow and slander, pleasure and pain Only the scars remain

Who's sister Jude? Well, I believe in you You've been crucified But I'm on your side Who's Sister Jude? Who's Sister Jude? Who's Sister Jude. Woo!

I wish I had a crowd here to applause. That was amazing. I wish I had a lacquer lathe here. We could just run it right to the final. Right now. There we go. That was excellent, and I captured it on video because no one would believe this really happened if I hadn't done that. That was tremendous. Now I captured it on video because no one would believe this really happened if I hadn't done that. That was tremendous.

Now I want to bleed a little wild tonight. Sorry. We don't even know our own song. Mr. Jones next, if you don't mind. Let me just move Maestro back. Maestro was in the video, too. Thank you for that. Oh, that's terrific.

That was great. And I think the sponsors will like the video because you can see the two six-packs of Great Lakes beer prominently displayed there with the pint glass. So each of you get a six-pack to take home

with you. Nice. That's terrific. And there's a pumpkin ale just dropped off this morning because, you know, everything's got to be pumpkin now. I guess you've got that memo that everything until Halloween will be pumpkins. I had a pumpkin smoothie this morning. Yeah. Thank you very much, Mike.

Thank you very much. So that's in there. So that's from Great Lakes Brewery. Great Lakes Beer isn't far from here. Where are they? They're like rural York and Queensway area oh not very far at all like between the Gardner and the Queensway

yeah you're like halfway between the actual lake and the Great Lakes brewery thank you that's right sometimes I'm in the mood for one wetness and then sometimes for the other so you never know now you need to break down I don't know if you know this but when you drink your beer you gotta break down the CO2 this is important you're supposed to pour your don't know if you know this But when you drink your beer You've got to break down the CO2

This is important You're supposed to pour your beer into a pint glass For this purpose You probably drank it straight from the can You're doing it wrong That explains your bloated, gassy feeling That's why I get so drunk Wow

Lack of carbon dioxide Now Brian Gerstein is a sales representative, and he's with PSR Brokerage, and he has the website propertyinthesix.com. Anyone looking to buy and sell should go there, but he wants you to have a pint glass. So in addition to the six-pack of beer, you'll each get a property in the six-pint glass here. He's on a mission to prevent bloatedness then, in addition to selling condos. He's on a mission to prevent bloatedness then. In addition to selling condos. That's a fine service.

Now we just heard a live musical performance, but let's hear from Brian and then you guys can listen to... Brian's got a jingle in the background and then afterwards you can tell me if you think it's catchy or not. So you can analyze the jingle. Here we go. This is Brian.

it's a catchy or not. So you can analyze the jingle. Here we go. This is Brian. Brian Gerstein here, proud sponsor of Toronto Mike and sales representative with PSR Brokerage with offices in King West and the Annex. PSR specializes in new condominium sales with the hottest projects in the city, including Kingley in King West and 2-1 Bloor West. For VIP Toronto Mic Access, just call me at 416-873-0292 for renderings, floor plans, and pricing. Any real estate consultation in person with me

will also get you my property in the 6.com pint glass and a six-pack of GLB. why the kick drum only comes in for the last couple of bars. It's just pushing it over the top. So when you're on repeated listens, you'll always find some beer candy. Yeah. Cool. It's got to have somewhere to go. But now you guys know if you wanted more beer

and another pint glass, you could call Brian. It's that easy to have a consultation. And a second house. And a second house, right. You can never have enough real estate

in this city. Thank you, Mike. We have swag for you, too. Oh, get out of here. Yeah, we got swag for you, too. This is going to be terrible radio, of course. Buttons from the lowest. We've got buttons. The good news for you, too. Oh, get out of here. Yeah, we got swag for you, too. This is going to be terrible radio, of course. Buttons from the lowest.

The good news is this is not radio. Limited edition do-the-right-now fridge magnet. I tweeted this pic. I like this pic. I tweeted it recently to promote your appearance. The do-the-right-now pic. A selection of buttons for you to put on your pencil case. Now I won't just look at Maestro.

I have... Are you kidding me? Wait, is Splashin' Boots still here? Hold on. No, I love it. I love this stuff. This is tremendous. Thank you very much. My lowest of the low pin. Three of them. When you throw your locker open, people are going to dig it.

Oh, man. Excellent. Thank you very much. And I got just one question for you, Ron, and you, Lawrence. What's that, Mike? Are you ready to kick out the jams? Mother fudgers. And I'm going to, because you're going to each take turns, I'll let everybody know this first jam is Ron Hawkins' first jam.

Let's listen. Let's listen. First Jam. Let's listen. In every American community, you have varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.

So here then is a lesson in safe logic. I cried when they shot Medgar Evers. Tears ran down my spine. And I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy. As though I'd lost a father of mine. But Malcolm X

got what was coming. He got what he asked for this time So love me, love me, love me I'm a liberal Get it? This is Phil Ox? Phil Oaks, yeah. Phil Oaks? I knew I'd butcher that.

Love me, I'm a liberal. He's a contemporary of Dylan. I think the two of them were sort of vying for the political folky crown. Like a Pete Seeger type vibe, maybe. Inspired by Woody Guthrie and those guys, and sort of great. I think they were both at some point

in the Socialist Workers Party in America. Dylan, I know who Dylan was and I'm sure Phil was. And then Dylan had to make a choice at some point, whether to be a rock star or a political activist and he chose to be a rock star

and I think he did a good job of what he chose to do and some people are cut out for it, some people aren't. And it's a weird, I've picked this, I sort of re-found this song because it seems like a bad time to be bashing liberals

right now in history, but to me, though it sounds counterintuitive, I think it's a good time to sort of dispel illusions, you know? And I think that's what happened last year, is that people expected things from the liberals that they weren't capable of doing. And I think somebody like Bernie Sanders would have pushed the extent of that as far left as it could have been. But I think what's needed down there in most places in the world

is something left of that still. And Phil lampoons it quite a bit. And there's some updated versions of it. There's a Jello Biafra, Mojo Nixon version of it. And there's countless, you know, if you go on YouTube, there's countless current versions where people have stuck in more current politics. But I just love the audacity of it. And it just shows you that as outspoken as Bob Dylan was,

Phil Oakes was clearly not concerned about being a pop star. You know, he wasn't looking to be embraced by the industry, I don't think, you know? It's funny you mention Dylan, because when Dylan decided to go electric, guess whose backup band he took? Phil Oakes? Phil Oakes's? Ron Hawkins. Rockin' Ronnie Hawkins.

I'm still pissed about that. Yeah, that's the other guy. He's selling his house, by the way. Imagine you bought his home. He's selling his,, by the way. Imagine you bought his home. He's selling his like... I know. Well, you know, I've got a quick story for you. I just played a folk festival in London, Ontario.

Was being brought into the hotel, the Armory Hotel. Another aside was I hung the drapes there in 1988. Get out of here. That's a great aside. But I was being... Not a euphemism. I was being... Well, I can't think of the word of... I was being... Not a euphemism. I was being... Well, I kind of think of the word of...

I was being... Escorted? Escorted. No, I was being booked in to the hotel. Checked in. Checked in. Checked in. I was being checked in.

In the common parlance. And so the promoter was beside me, and he said, you know, this is Ron Hawkins, and they were like, oh, okay, and they're going, they're giving us our keys. We get in the elevator, and we're going up, and the promoter says, oh, I'm on seven. I go, I'm on four. So we get to four, and the door opens, and there and they're going, they're giving us our keys. We get in the elevator and we're going up. The promoter says, oh, I'm on seven. I go, I'm on four. So we get to four and the door opens

and there's only one door and it's in the turret of the Armory Hotel. It's a former armory in London. And I go, oh, I guess I'll see you tomorrow. And I open the door and it's a colossal hotel suite. Like a suite. It's two floors. It had three bathrooms, a grand piano.

And I found out after a couple of days, we found out that it's considered the Garth Hudson room. And somebody at the desk heard Ron Hawkins and figured, we'll put him in Garth's room. I knew where that story was going. And oh my goodness. So that worked in your benefit, though. It did, except that I think I spent five hours in it

because we had been playing festivals all over and flying in and driving here. And I got there, slept, got up, went to the folk festival and didn't really get to enjoy the grand piano.

And because Ron doesn't have a cell phone, he was unable to take pictures that he could have shared with us. But I did take a bath in every one

of the bathrooms. You're right, you did. It's funny, I only mentioned Splashin' Boots for the 14th time because they were here

yesterday and I can't remember anything beyond yesterday, but the gentleman who plays guitar, the musician there, we'll call him Splash. He's not his real name, but we'll call him Splash. I mentioned to him that, hey, Ron Hawkins is coming in because he

talked about 90s music and Oasis and stuff. And I said, Ron Hawkins is coming in tomorrow. And he thought I was talking about Rockin' Ronnie Hawkins. So he's going to be disappointed now when he listens to episode 264. But a bunch of guys my age actually are disappointed.

That's amazing. You met Splash. Splash from Guns N' Roses? I'm going to see Guns N' Roses in October. Are you? Where are they playing? The ACC. The ACC. You're not going to see it at the ACC. This is literally...

No, because it's not changing until next summer. Oh, you're going to go to the ACC, buddy. Don't worry about it. But Splash, Splash, Splash is right here. See? Yeah. He's looking right at us with my strength. Everybody's in your basement.

Everybody you mention is in my basement. Just don't mention Andre the Giant, because then I'll have to, he's right there. And Brandon Shanahan, speaking of the Leafs, is inside of Andre the Giant. But I've said too much but I've said too much. I've said too much. Lawrence, are you ready to kick out your first jam?

Oh, yes. Do you remember Regathel's pit? It's such an ugly song I've heard a rumour from ground control Oh no, don't say it's true

They got a message from the action man I'm happy Hope you're happy too I've loved all of needed love Saw the details fall away The shrieking of nothing is killing just Pictures of trapped girls in synthesis

And I ain't got no money And I ain't got no money And I ain't got no head But I'm hoping to kick But the planet is glowing Ashes to ash and fun to fuck it We've no major talk to junk it Strung out in heaven's eye David Bowie's Ashes to Ashes. Mike, let's talk about nostalgia. Let's do it.

Nostalgia's currency, man. I'm just actually trying to remember. I saw David Bowie play at the Exhibition Stadium In 1986 And I can't remember if he played This song or not It was the Glass Spider Tour

Duran Duran was the opening act I thought you were playing Davy Jones That's what I got to tell you David Jones, wasn't that his name? Yeah, it was David Jones He changed it because it was Davy Jones Because of David Jones Can't that his name? yeah it was David Jones that's right he changed it because it was David Jones because of David Jones yeah

they kept adding the wrong hotel rooms can't have two Davies Jones but you realize that would have been a problem if he was feeling himself as David Jones

you can't do that no can't do that this is a song that goes back to the time that I was first I was like

I think 10 years old when this song came out and this was when I was starting to get to the point where I was making my own decisions about what music I would listen, I think 10 years old when this song came out. And this was when I was starting to get to the point where I was making my own decisions about what music I would listen to. I have two older sisters. And, you know, so I would sort of get to listen to what they were into.

So there was, you know, some Bay City Rollers and your Leaf Garrets. And so when I was nine years old, we moved to England. My family, we moved to London. When I was nine years old, we moved to England. My family, we moved to London. And the BBC radio plays a whole host of music that I just never heard before because they would play anything there. And of course, David Bowie was, I think, a very, very successful artist at the time. And I remember sitting, I had a little Coke can radio and I was listening to the BBC

and they played this song that I thought was called Space Odyssey because I was a little sci-fi kid and I loved listening to the BBC and they played this song that I thought was called Space Odyssey because I was a little sci-fi kid and I loved science fiction books and everything and I thought, this man is singing about space. And I mean, I guess prior to that, the only sci-fi themed song I'd heard was probably Spaceship Superstar by Prism.

You know? That's a song not without its charms, but it's maybe a bit more of a fluff piece. But anyway, this seemed like really real serious art. So my mom took me down the street and I got to sort of go and say, I want the Space Odyssey song. And I got a 45 of David Bowie covering Alabama song.

And the B-side was a re-recorded version of Space Odyssey, Oddity. And then shortly thereafter, he put out Scary Monsters, which had this song was the lead off single. And this just blew my mind. It was the craziest sound I'd ever heard in my life. And I was instantly hooked and, you know, just made me love music even more and science as well. People should listen to more music with headphones because, you know, it's like you hear it,

it's all the side around you, but I was into this track right now. The way it bounces in the headphones, it's like it just... And he does all that creepy talking stuff

and you hear that a lot better in the headphones. But you don't really notice it. Yeah, you don't notice it when you're immersed in it. You don't notice it on your Coke can radio?

No, I didn't notice it. I don't even... What is that? It's a radio that's shaped like a Coke can and one end of it had a terrible mono speaker and, you know,

and it was what I had. It was 1980, Ron. Jeez. For everyone who... The can Lawrence kept his Coke can and one end of it had a terrible mono speaker and it was what I had. It was 1980, Ron, jeez. For everyone who was... The can Lawrence kept his Coke can

when he was 10 years old. That's right. For everyone during that track who heard it crackle a little bit and then tried to figure out what was wrong

with their systems, it was my bad because I was moving these buttons and I realized, now, if I touch this cable and pointing to,

bad things happen so I'm not going to touch that again. Okay. That's not my pledge to the listening audience. But that's great to hear some Bowie, some David Jones, if you will. Ron, here's all right. It's just when you're gone, I start to snooze real long,

because I stay up until 4 in the morning. Counting all the days to your back, shivering in an ice cold bath Of emotional math Oh, it's a shame and I'm to blame Cause we're all right Until you go and I start losing control without a warning counting all the days till you're back

shivering in an ice cold bath of emotions Of emotions and math Margaret Glaspie, Emotions and Math. Off of this limb, a woman acting like a kid A skinny man with a dress that's dressed in turtleneck All the things that I do malaise and somebody, you know, getting into one of those discussions with people where they're like, there's just no good music anymore, man. And, you know, and was sort of fed up and kind of, you know, like mildly depressed about having this conversation. And I went home and got on the, on YouTube and started, went on to Tiny Desk concerts. Is that what it's called? NPR's Tiny Desk concerts.

Yeah. By NPR. and then it was i just discovered a hundred bands i'd never heard of that or to a to a band amazing you know and all probably i mean not all of them under 70 but uh you know there were some there was a wide swatch of uh ages but uh margaret glasby was one of them uh big thief was another one and um that lawrence had sent me a clip of before as well. And yeah, I just was very struck by her voice and by something intangible. I think it's just the way she swings the vocal, you know?

And thinking, how simple. I think it's pretty much all this whole album is like drums, bass, guitar, and a voice. And you're thinking, how could you possibly do something new in that in that medium but this is what you know inspires me is that I feel it's like you know indie rock and guitar rock and stuff like that it's a bit like snowflakes I mean it seems like there's an infinite amount of things you can do if you bring something like Margaret's bringing in this song like

the attitude the swagger just the I've never heard anybody sing like that. You know? I love that guitar sound too. That's a guitar sound. Beautiful guitar sound. It's very simple, but you know, real. And you know, and it's, I don't want to, I don't want to dump on female singers from the last five years, but I mean, there seemed to have been a very, there's one specific type that a lot of indie rock singers, female singers fall into, which is kind of chirpy

and high and breathy. And this was not that at all. And it sort of, so by dint of that, it jumped right out at me. And there you go. I had never heard of Margaret Glaspie until Ron submitted this list. And now I'm glad I did because that's kind of a great track.

You're not alone. Yeah. Well, and the other cool thing about it is that we've got a gig coming up in Buffalo. And I was like, we often do this, which is like the promoter said, so who do you want to open want to open I was like I don't know like can we try and get Margaret Glaspie and and saying that to him with the idea that I don't know if that's the most absurd thing to ask in the world because maybe she's massive and you know and she'll go uh what

you know lowest of the low who the hell are those guys or she'd think it was cool and you know so and that's what you know that's another thing that's exciting about being a 53-year-old, you know, guy in a band, singer-songwriter, is that I can still be doing a show somewhere and wonder if that will happen or not, you know? Did she say yes? Yeah, what's happened? She can't do it.

And it's scheduling, or at least that's what she said. She never called back. I don't know when it is. No, very cool. I love hearing these unique voices But she left her cable at my house So I'm sure she'll be back That's right

Lawrence, let's hear another of your jams Thank you. Did you ever want it? Did you want it back? Oh, my It tears me apart Did you ever fight it All of the pain So much pride Running through my veins Bleeding I'm bleeding I can't or I can die.

I believe if I just try to believe in you and I. Michael Kiwanuka, Cold Little Heart. Oh, yeah. You know, I am the administrator of the band's Twitter page, Mike, and you know how you can go into the analytics and it breaks down your Twitter audience for you. I learned recently that upwards of 85% of the people that follow us on Twitter are apparently into premium brands.

That's me. That's something. So I imagine that maybe that means that people that like our band are HBO subscribers and they might recognize this song was used as a theme song for Big Little Lies. Right. Big Little Lies. Oh my God.

I knew I knew it from a show I had watched, and in my head I was thinking Fargo. Like, I had a Fargo vibe, because it's cool. I don't know, but yes, Big Little Lies. It was Big Little Lies, yeah. But this is a British fellow. He's in his 20s.

He's from North London, and I could just listen to this guy sing all day. He's just got an incredible voice, and it's kind of funny. What you were just saying about Margaret Glassby, it's like, you know, what's new to be done in the soul music thing? I don't know, but listen to this. This is just great stuff. I believe if I just try You believe in you and I

In my heart, in this whole heart I believe, oh I do not I believe if I just try You believe in you and I If I just try You'll believe In your life There's also a bit of a crossover production-wise to me, like with the Black Keys or something. There's a sense, you know,

you can listen to that and you totally picture the fact that those people are in a room somewhere. They're not, that's not, that's not 46 overdubs. That's, you know, that's a bunch of people in a room. And the guitar sound, that is,

if you isolated that guitar sound, you'd go, wow, that's a crappy guitar sound. But dropped into the mix the way it is and the arrangement, it sounds perfect. It's interesting that you say that because one of the producers of this album was Danger Mouse, who produced some albums for the Black Keys

and I think did a lot of the same sort of things. There's a saying in the music industry that you have your whole life to write your first album, and then 18 months to write your second one, and I was reading interviews with Michael Kiwanuka where he was describing the big fear of the sophomore slump that he went through after his first album in 2012 was very well received,

and he got thrown out on the road opening for Adele and was suddenly moving in all these circles he got invited to Hawaii by Kanye West to uh to work on the Yeezus album but nobody told him what that was going to be like or what he was expected to do and he was he ended up just walking away from that and then just sort of was in a daze trying to figure out how to go forward and write songs again and then he got hooked up with uh brian burton who's the producer known as danger mouse and this was the result this collaboration so you never went through any kind of sophomore slump did you ron you just kept right on going like after shakespeare i don't know some people would listen to that record yeah he actually did he didn't think he did but he did well i think i'm

i think i'm a little bit immune to it because again maybe the reason i i i'm attracted to phil oakes is that sense of like i'm in it but i'm not of it and i've always spent my life in the music industry because that's the way to get your music to people but i don't respect it and i and i sort of like still feel like i'm busking you know like and that was a really immediate conduit to people and the way lowest of the low built up their audience originally was very grassroots and small clubs. And, and though we tried to get signed, we couldn't. And, uh, so then we just pushed that away for a bit and did it on our own. And it sort of proved another tenant, I think, of the music industry, which is that you're basically left to fend for yourself. And once you've got the entire thing running and,

and oiled and running, suddenly somebody's interested and they come and basically all they want to do is hijack it. And if it works, it's, you know, you use their aircraft carrier to launch your little planes and everything gets lifted. But often it doesn't work that way. I'd say the vast majority of times it doesn't work that way. But yeah, so I think I'm a little bit immune to it because I don't respect it enough. I don't respect the kind of adulation I would get from the industry. So I'm then immune from being hurt by it, I guess, in a certain way. There we go.

That track, that haunting track, would not be out of place in a Tarantino movie. I can see the imagery to that song. I can see no end of use for that song. It's just one of those tunes. It's just such a great song. How long was the... Okay, so the original version I had,

that was 10 minutes. On the album, it's 10 minutes. There's about a five-minute instrumental intro to the song. Okay, at the beginning. So you gave me a shorter version. I gave you a shorter version, yeah. Otherwise, we'd have to tell more stories.

Yeah, we'd have to just go on and on. I saw them play live at Phoenix a few months ago, and that's how they started the concert. It was a very, very long, slow build-up. The whole band slowly made their way on stage. That'd be cool. It was wonderful. It was terrific. That's very cool.

But, you know, hey, this is broadcast podcasting. Yeah, we don't... I've got to get back to more ads soon. Let's hear another of Ron's jams. Come on, come on. Come on, come on. Come on, it's such a joy. Come on, it's such a joy. Come on, let's take it easy.

Come on, let's take it easy. Take it easy. Take it easy. Everybody's got something to hide. Except for me and my monkey. The Beatles. Everybody's got something to hide except me and my monkey. The deeper you go, the calmer. Beatles, everybody's got something to hide except me and my monkey.

Unlike the 10-minute song I just played for Lawrence, you know, these Beatles tracks are like two and a half minutes. Yeah. Nice and short. Well, this is, you know, like when I told my daughter which Beatles song, since she's now a Beatle maniac, which Beatle song I chose to play, she was like, wow, that one. And I said, yeah, it's probably not my favorite Beatle song,

and it's not, you know, I'm a John fan, and it's not, it's kind of, you know, in a way it's a throwaway tune. He's messing around. But I mean, to me, this is the foil to the Phil Oakes part of my interest in music, which is, you know, as an activist, as a political person, as a lyric writer, something like this trumps it almost, you know, and like, I just like the groove. I like the guitar, you know, like the, just the absolute joy that's pouring out of the song, like just a bunch of people in a room

rocking out and doing that. Paul's screaming in the background for no reason, you know, because he's excited. And just this lick. Like how much attitude is in that lick? And then they decide to do this. And then they decide to do that. Because they can. And the headphone thing, all the drums are in one ear. Most of the bands in the rest of the year.

So I mean, I would think that that kind of thing is probably the reason I got interested in being a musician in the beginning is that sort of like, I just want to be in a room jumping around doing that for no reason at all. And if I can get paid to do it, that's awesome too. interested in being a musician in the beginning is that sort of like, I just want to be in a room jumping around doing that, uh, for no reason at all. And if I can get paid to do it, that's awesome too. Is that possibly the longest title in the Beatles, uh, song? I'm not an expert, but I would have to think so.

Yeah, I can't take it. I don't know. I'm thinking of this Pearl Jam's got that, uh, elder, elderly woman behind a counter in a small town, which I think they introduced as the longest title in the Pearl Jam catalog, but I think this might be the Beatles' longest title. What's the longest, lowest of the low title? Maybe three words. No, um...

I don't really know. Bleed a Little Wild Tonight. That's practically a novel right there. Henry Needs a New Pair of Shoes. That's right, yeah. there. Henry needs a new pair of shoes. That's right, yeah. That's seven right there. Is this a drinking game?

I'm going with that one. Love that track. Excellent. And we have another jam. Got to get the right order for Lawrence. There's a problem that there's iron Bargain buildings, weights and pulleys Feathers hit the ground before the weight can leave the air By the sky and by the sky until the sky

until the sky until the sky falls fall fall fall fall fall

fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall

fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall

fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall

fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall fall Fall on me. R.E.M., Fall on Me.

You know, in 1986, when that song was released, it made it all the way to number 94 on the Billboard Top 100 and then dropped out. Not a hit. Which confuses me. Which album is it on again? This is on Life's Rich Pageant, which is my favorite R.E.M. album. Come at me. That's L.R. Nichols

on Twitter. I'll fight you. I will fight you. That's the best R.E.M. album. Absolutely. What a great song. It's got all the sort of dreaminess and joy and harmony and melody of like a 1960s,

like, you know, Mama's and Papa's tune, but it's got that murky, oblique R.E.M. quality. And really, when you distill that all down, it's just a song about a guy sincerely, politely, imploring this guy not to fall on him. You know, it's kind of an optimistic tune. What is it up in the air for? That's one of my favorite lines of all time.

One of my favorite answering lines of all time. What is it up in the air for? So yeah, it's just a lovely song and lots and lots and lots and lots of harmonies, which I like. Forgive me for misremembering this, but was this the album that came out after Document? This came out before Document.

Before Document. It was right after Fables of the Reconstruction. Is it the first R.E.M. record where Michael's actually singing English words? It was the first album where you could hear him singing strange words. The producer they got was known for making hits for John Cougar Mellencamp. And so they made a conscious choice to go to more of a pop producer, and I know they wanted to get those great drum sounds

like this has really big sort of stadium sized drum sounds, whereas I used to bust this outside the Morrissey. Me and Petter Jakobsen was playing a stand-up bass, and I went to play acoustic guitar. We did that. Did he sing the Mike Mills part?

I think so. I would have given you money if I'd walked past you. That was before loonies and toonies. You'd have to cough up some paper. And it wasn't plastic yet. Sometimes when you're trying to describe the Tragically Hip

to Americans, one of the go-to is that they're sort of like Canada's R.E.M. That's what I've heard. If you have to... I've heard them describe that. The only Tragically Hip song that I ever thought sort of sounded like an R.E.M. song was Ahead by a Century. It sort of has a bit of that, too.

But I guess I sort of get it. It's just because the lead singer had hair, and then he didn't. And he dances. They have similar dancing styles on stage. That is a parallel. You can picture them there. Yeah.

To me, the much more similar comparison would be the Sky Diggers. What are they up in the air for? But to dig. You know, I mean, I'm pretty sure Andy's a big Michael fan. I would think. I hear it in the voice, but... Yeah.

Probably. Have you ever had the Sky Diggers on? Nope. Have you ever had R.E.M. on? Have you ever had R.E.M. on? I have not had R.E.M. on. You should get the Skydiggers in here and ask him about that. Could you do an introduction?

Is that something you could do? I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think we might have an in there. Good, because I'm still recovering from my PR fiasco with Hugh Dillon where it was all locked and loaded, but I was going through a PR person because the Headstones were releasing a new album.

This was a few months ago. All done. I'm all set up. I've even loaded tracks. I do my homework, right? That's why people listen. And I'm all set. And this is not on Hugh because I never actually spoke to Hugh.

I only spoke to the PR rep. And the PR rep, the night before, maybe two nights before, is like, oh, dude, a scheduling conflict. We can't make it anymore. And it wasn't like, they didn't reschedule. She just said, like, they're out.

Like, this is done. But for weeks, this has all been set up. Like, why did you book him on my, you know, basement podcast if you're going to do that? Of course, I'm sure,

you know, maybe CP24 called or Breakfast Television or whatever. I don't know. And they thought that was bigger. If you didn't have a cell phone, they couldn't have made that call. They would have had to show up.

That's one way to look at it. The second thing is you never use the words Hugh Dillon and locked and loaded in the same sentence. That's actually a good point. That's a good point. But I made a rule since that happened a few months ago where I will no longer have a guest on unless I've talked directly

to one of the people coming in. I can't go through a on unless I've talked directly to one of the people coming in. Like, I can't go through a PR unless I've had at some point a correspondence, like Twitter, email, or whatever, with the person. Because that way, like once I have direct connect with the person, it's happening or they have a good excuse and I can, it's cool. It's not, you know, Hugh probably still never knows he was booked on this podcast. Oh, dear.

There you go. There's my tragic Hugh Dillon story. Let's hear, on that note, this is a good track to hear now. This is another track from Ron Hawkins. All I can ever be to you Is a darkness that we know And this regret I got accustomed to Once we walked the ride

When we were at our hide Waiting for you in the hotel at night I knew I had him at my match But every moment we get snatched I don't know why I got so attached It's my responsibility And you don't owe nothing to me But to walk away I have no progress He walks away

The sun goes down He takes the day But I'm grown And in your way In this blue shade My tears dry on their own I don't understand What do I say to me

Amy Winehouse, tears dry on their own. I love Stella. Again, the phrasing of how she sings is kind of outlandish. How she can come up with so many ways to restate the similar melody all through the song. And it also reminds me of like, there's two things, my last two picks, this one and the next one you're going to play of mine are, just sort of remind me of summers driving to the cottage with my aunt and uncle who are big music fans. And he was a big Beatles and Beach Boys fan. And my aunt had no time for those guys, but she loved Motown stuff. So I got a liberal dose of girl groups and Beach Boys and Beatles, and we would drive there.

They're also very musical, so we would spontaneously be picking out harmonies and singing along, and people would just pick different harmonies and stuff like that. harmonies and singing along and people would just pick different harmonies and stuff like that so I really think like you know when people ask me you didn't you weren't educated in music or you didn't take lessons and I'm like not you know not technically but I mean things like that are incredibly good for developing your ear and and I've always had a real I think that you can hear it if you know you can hear the sort of girl group influences in some of my songs and and certainly the structures of certain Beach Boys songs and stuff you know, you can hear the sort of girl group influences in some of my songs and certainly the structures of certain Beach Boys songs and stuff, you know. There are worse things to be influenced by, right?

Those gals were cool. Yeah. And I think Amy is like, it's a perfect, it's a perfect updating of that, of that, you know, in working with Mark Ronson. I'm also a big fan of Mark Ronson's production, which is a lot of what you're hearing with the Dap Kings and stuff like that, where it's, again, back to old school, like the band is in a room. I've heard him talk about how there's one mic on the drum kit,

and he just walks around, you know, when somebody else would have spent time putting 30 mics up, he's walking around with one mic, finding the absolute sweet spot in the room for that drum kit. And that's where it goes. And it gets down to tape and the rest is history. What a voice. Do you think that she would have shared your thoughts about that, that she wasn't updating of the whole girl group aesthetic because you could sit, you know,

with the hair that she had and everything like that was sort of a modern, fractured take on that. She was a throwback of sorts. Yeah, a throwback, but a very modern. As a very, very adorable

old Irish lady, I don't know what it was, but I saw this show where they will take an artist like Amy Winehouse and drop her into, you know, drop them into some environment and they do a show and everybody comes show where they will take an artist like Amy Winehouse and drop them into some environment,

and they do a show and everybody comes to see it, and they're not necessarily Amy Winehouse fans. They dropped her in some abandoned abbey somewhere, and all these Irish people came to see it, and they were interviewing her after, and the lady said, well, she came here with her spindly legs and her mental hair.

And she loved her, right? But she was just, that's, I thought, what a perfect summation, spindly legs and mental hair hair and that was the beginning of a rave for me did you guys see the uh documentary amy yeah it was kind of hard to watch right like yeah i feel like that's one of those things where you see you know what we were talking about the industry before is like you see sort of the jackals are right there and they're so close to her like they're kind of, you know, spoiler alert, but some of them are in her family.

And it's like, you know, or like watching, you know, Kurt and Courtney and stuff like that. It's like you see how toxic it can be and how close to home that sort of narcissism and egocentrism and loss of reality. For sure. Lawrence, here's another jam for you. A jam or a jam?

A jam of a jam. Let's find out. I'll be the judge of that. We are now at Upper Session Road It's a calling card at the payphone From the other coast Just to tell you how good it was to hear you In those songs you wrote You made me think there was something coming, really something worth waiting for. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they talk about. Oh, oh.

Nico Case, Calling Cards We were talking about long titles This is from her album The Worst Things Get, The Harder I Fight The Harder I Fight, The More I Love You There you go That's the album title? That was Nico's 2013 album. It had this song on it.

Sometimes some of the songs that I like the most are songs that just the arrangement, just the way it sounds, suggests something all by itself. This song strikes a mood so beautifully, nostalgic. Here we go again with the nostalgia A very wistful, nostalgic

Melancholy to it And Nico Case is one of my favorite singers as well And she's an American who we've adopted sort of up here, right? She's definitely got honorary Canadian stripes But she's an American lady New pornographers Yeah, I think she went to school in Vancouver opted sort of up here, right? Yeah. Because she's definitely got honorary Canadian stripes, but she's an American lady. New pornographers. Yeah.

I think she went to school in Vancouver and ended up playing with a bunch of bands out there. She was the drummer for Cub, I think, wasn't she? Oh, really? Yeah, I think so. And yeah,

and ended up part of a West Coast Canadian super group. Right. I'm pretty sure I had a Cub sticker on my guitar at some point. I think you did.

Yeah. And yeah, and she just keeps putting out great, great, great, great records. Great rootsy rock and she's a treasure. So there you go. Nico Case, everybody. National treasure.

So how are we doing so far? I'm just thinking that our songs are kind of introspective and are we being total music nerds and picking obscure songs? No, it's actually a nice combination. I mean, the Amy Winehouse is anything but obscure and then David Bowie, of course,

anything but obscure and REM all over the place and then we have a couple coming up. That made it to 94. But the re-release went straight to the top. straight to the top.

But I actually quite like it. I've been introduced to Margaret Glaspy and that track, I watched that whole series, Little Liars, what's it called? Big Little Lies. I get it introduced to Margaret Glaspie and that track that I watched that whole series, Little Liars, what's it called? Big Little Lies.

I get it confused. My daughter watches a show called Pretty Little Liars and the two titles, don't get those mixed up, they're different shows. They are different shows.

One is a premium brand show. Right. And one is a bargain discount bin show. Although my daughter loves it though. Right. But I got to it, though. Right.

But I've got to say, I've heard that song many times, and every time I heard it, I liked it. But now that I have a 10-minute version, that's a whole different experience. And that's a great album. It's called Love and Hate. That's a whole record of classics.

There you go. This song is one of my favorite songs of all time, but it's on Ron Hawkins' list. Let's hear, this song is one of my favorite songs of all time, but it's on Ron Hawkins' list. Let's hear his final jam of the day. I may not always love you But long as there are stars above you You never need to doubt it I'll make you so sure about it God only knows what I'd be without you The Beach Boy is God Only Knows.

Yeah, this comes down to like, it always winds up being the song I mention as my favorite song of all time. It always winds up being the song I mention as my favorite song of all time. As much as I recognize that's a weird thing to say, because often that changes from year to year or whatever. But this has held fast since I was eight years old, I think. And also the funny thing about the Beach Boys is I'm a fan, but I can't think of another band that I have such a wide range of suspension of disbelief for. Like, there's this record, Pet Sounds,

and a few other handful of songs. And then there's the drag racing songs and stuff, which I also will sing, and I think they have nice melodies. But, you know, I like most of those ironically at this point. You mean the surf songs, right? The surf songs and the car songs. You know, I sort of, I'm kind of laughing while I like them, whereas this is a masterpiece to me. You mean the surf songs, right? The surf songs and the car songs.

I'm kind of laughing while I like them, whereas this is a masterpiece to me. So I can't think of another band that I have such... Such a range. Such a range of emotions about. But yeah, and just this song also, Lawrence and I were doing something for a while called The Acoustic Review, and I think we did this as a cover at one point.

And because I'd never taken it apart I'd always just thought up it's beautiful simple awesome song and then we started trying to learn it and realizing how many sort of passing bass notes into chords are happening there's a key change there's you know and you start to realize that's the that's the genius of this song is that it's incredibly, but it doesn't seem to be. It seems to be just like a friend of yours whistling in your ear. Right. That's a gift, really.

Yeah. Something that's really complicated and strange, and yet sounds effortless and just seems to flow. Nirvana did that a lot, too. They sound like they were making three-chord rock rock but some of those songs are actually really kind of tricky and twisty and they had a very simple melody over top of them that just pulls you in

and also the production in that song, I mean it's the Wrecking Crew it's not really the Beach Boys they're singing but the Wrecking Crew is the band and they're a classic for people who don't know the Wrecking Crew it's a great talk about them they're the LA sort of studio super band that played on almost every record you can imagine

that came out in the 60s, you know? When the band wasn't actually playing on it, you know? And I've read there was a little controversy when that song comes out because it's got God in the title. Apparently that was a big deal to play that on the radio. That was a no-no back then? I think it was blasphemous somehow

in certain circles in the States. And the other incredibly comforting thing for songwriters out there is that that song and that record was fairly critical. Not even wildly critically acclaimed. It was fairly well critically acclaimed and it was an absolute commercial flop.

Beach Boys fans didn't like it. Do they want surf songs? Yeah, and most civilians who weren't Beach Boys fans didn't like it. Do they want surf songs? Yeah, and most civilians who weren't Beach Boys fans didn't like it either. So it was a grower. That's testament to again, some people are making art in this medium

and some people are making pop or whatever and often they cross over and I like all of it, but some stuff will last that you don't even expect to last. It's like that time that Bob Dylan stole your band and went electric. A lot of people did not like that. I wasn't fond of it myself.

Was it Scorsese made a great documentary about that? You should check out. They stole Ron Hawkins' band. All right. All good things come to an end. Lawrence? You know, Ron's mentioned

that I'm sometimes in charge of making the set lists for the band, and it's kind of what I did here. This was the last song. I only had four picked, and I was like, what are we going to do? And I was looking at our list going, there's a lot of kind of mopey, introspective, sensitive songs on here, so I thought we'd end it with a big bang, like we try to do in the show.

Another Toronto classic. There you go. I've got to get Len in here. You got any connections to Len? I don't know if they said Len in. I own their album. I have one of their albums. I believe his last name was Costanza.

He was the same last name as George Costanza, if my memory is correct. Maybe they're related. That would be amazing. I need George Costanza in here. But I digress Let's listen to the final Lawrence jam As I stepped out upon the land And my heart was already down the stairs

She's in the bedroom with that boy of hers The face is creased And her eyes seem strange There's a secondhand emotion on her that had fallen fine My tears were never enough to keep that girl alive And as she seems contrite, we should make the change The next time around The next time around

You'll be someone else's baby But I'll be underground Next time around That's the greatest artist with the first name Elvis. Elvis Costello, Next Time Round. Don't they call him the king? He's called the king, yeah, I believe. 1986 was a big year for Elvis Costello.

He put out two albums that year. The first one was called King of America. And he made it in Los Angeles with a bunch of session musicians and T-Bone Burnett. And then he went back to England and with The Attractions, his original band, and Nick Lowe, they recorded an album of garage rock. The band was, I think, not happy with him at the time. There was a lot of fighting going on. They recorded the album basically live in one room with monitors and everything, played it at gig volume. And it's just a great record. It's kind of ferocious all the way through. And it's got energy. And I think it's all born of strife.

All the songs are kind of miserable. It sounded like he was having a tough year, but it made for some great songwriting. Oh, that's where you're going with that. You're saying a set list of Mopey songs. I was going to say, just because it's over 120 BP doesn't mean it's not Mopey. Now, this isn't Mopey. This is angry, I think.

This is just pure, unbridled anger. That's what I'm hearing when I hear this, and it's very effective. You know, this album was very helpful to me when I was 17 and, you know, dealing with issues of heartbreak and, you know, all the awful 17-year-old stuff. It was listening to stuff like this

going well i thought i had problems but listen to this guy this is also a record that lawrence handed me in about 1995 because i'd been hearing people had been writing oh you know ron's inspired by elvis costello or there's a some similar ground they're shredding and i was like i would always say well you know i heard the singles on the much music and stuff like that but i didn't have any costello records i didn't really grow up listening to costello and lawrence like I would always say well you know I heard the singles on the Much Music and stuff like that but I didn't have any Costello records I didn't really grow up listening to Costello and Lawrence was like

you have to hear this record because you guys are you know colleagues in a way I actually thought that when I met you when I heard your music I was like

this is crazy this guy's like Elvis Costello only he's standing there he's right there you know so yeah I was kind of surprised but hey

strange of things Elvis did marry a Canadian You know, so yeah, I was kind of surprised. But hey, stranger things. Elvis did marry a Canadian. Diana Krall. He's still married to a Canadian, right? I believe so. I don't get these memos always right up front. Very cool. And I didn't marry a Canadian, so that's...

We're common law. So technically, yeah. It's like we're twins. Nice. Guys, I can't believe Lowest of the Low played in my basement. This was a dream come true. Honestly, that was amazing.

You had me at unreleased, newly recorded version of Rosie and Gray, but you performed. And on that note, I'm going to start playing the original Rosie and Gray, as I often do at the end of podcasts. But thank you guys so much for coming over. Thank you very much for having us. And welcome back, Ron. Thank you.

The album's tomorrow, so I go to HMV and Sam's tomorrow morning. Yeah, that's right. I don't think they open until 10 or something, 11 o'clock. Yeah. There might be a lineup, too. You never know.

And the album, of course, I wanted to call it Do the Right Thing, but it is Do the Right Now. But you were inspired by Spike Lee's joints. Of course. Sure. And I got to talk to my friends at Indie 88 because they definitely should be playing Power Lines. Catchy Diddy, man.

That's a great track. We would be happy if they did that. Sure. I do actually have a couple. I don't think they have much influence over the... I'm going to make some calls. See if I can get anything done there. Thank you.

Tell them we're rebels just for kicks, yeah. I will. I will. And that brings us to the end of our 264th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. And Lowest of the Low are at Lowest of the Low. And Lawrence, you actually have a Twitter account for yourself.

Remind me what the handle is. It's at LRNichols on Twitter. When I finish this, I'm going to start following you. I didn't know you had your own account. I have my own. It's a very small one. That's where all the controversy happens. Because I knew you were the guy behind the lowest at lowest of the low. We spoke

digitally, I believe, in the past. So I was tipped off of that. So very cool. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery, by the way, are at Great Lakes Beer, and propertyinthesix.com is at Brian Gerstein. See you all next week. And your smile is fine And it's just like mine

And it won't go away Cause everything is rosy and green Well you've been under my skin for more than eight years It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you But I'm a much or do for me and you. But I'm a much better man for having known you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up.

Rosie and Grace.