Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Luke Doucet from Whitehorse: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1909

Episode Date: June 3, 2026

On this 1909th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with musician Luke Doucet about his years in Veal, his solo work, and playing with his wife Melissa McClelland in Whitehorse. Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good morning, everybody, coming to you from New Toronto, as I believe it's called. My name is Luke Doucette. I'm from the band Whitehorse, and today is my debut with Toronto Mike. So I'm feeling welcome. I hope you are. I'm impressed you didn't call it Mimico. I've ridden my bike through this neighborhood enough times. Okay, because people think they're in Mimico, and then I get angry, Luke. Mimico is north of the highway. Is that right?

Well, no, I'll explain it to you on the other side, but I will be your guide for this one. Okay. Welcome to episode 1,9009, 1909 of Toronto Mike. An award-winning podcast, proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakesbeer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh. Homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville.

Visit palmaPasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer. No ticket required. I'm there for Sunday's game at 2 p.m. Be there. It's like a monster truck rally. Be there.

Fusion Corp's own Nick Aienis. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle My Electronics.C.A. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921.

Joining me today, making his Toronto-Miked debut, it is indeed, Luke. Ducet. Welcome, Luke. Thank you very much. Do people meet you and they drop a Star Wars line like use the foremost loop.

They do. They do. It could be worse. You know, having been born in 1973 and Star Wars landed on us in 77 or 78, I thought my mom... I thought my mother was an absolute genius for calling me Luke. Well, it's in the Bible.

Well, there's that too, although my mother being a sort of very committed table-panting atheist, it was odd that she named all her children with biblical names. Oh, that is funny. I don't know why. That is...

You got a sister named Mary? I don't, but a Sarah. Yeah, that's a very biblical name. Okay. Okay. Well, what an absolute play? is to meet you, Luke. Thank you. Likewise.

Where the hell is your wife, Melissa McClelland? Easy for you to say. Where the hell is Melissa? I guess I didn't fill her in on the proceedings today, and she was like, but I have to do these things. I'm like, oh, well, don't panic. It's okay. I'll happily go and speak on your behalf.

She loves that when I do that. Well, listen, yeah, let's say only good things about Melissa. Melissa, like, what is the work-life balance like when you're sleeping with your bandmate? Well, when it's her, as it usually is, it's functional. But, you know, of course we're breaking all the rules. This is not supposed to work, and I don't advise it. I'm not going to go out there and tell everybody they should definitely start a low-rent indie folk rock band with their spouse. You probably shouldn't.

I think we're getting away with murder, to be honest, because it's been 20 years, 23 years, we'll be married for 20 years and a couple weeks. Congrats, man. Thank you very much. That's amazing. Yeah, I really think it is. You know, if it had gone down on a hail of bullets and tears, you know, 10 years, you ago, I would have said, well, that's really unfortunate, but we got a lot of great things out of it,

including a child and a bunch of records and some good memories. And that's just the way life is. But here we are still, and I still love her to death. And we still, you know, we actually get along better on the road than we do in domestic life. Like, we go on tour together and it's just like high fives and good times. And, you know, the thing about playing music is that you have all these sort of naturally built in peak moments. Like, you know, a therapist would tell you, you should really go on a date twice a month. And for us, it's like, well, if we do 10 shows a month, that's 10 dates. Wow, that's a good point here.

So you're still madly in love. And would she say the same about you? She's not here. So you could say whatever you want here. Matt, she would probably stop at mad. So wait, okay, so let's not bury the lead. I feel like I haven't properly said that you and Melissa, you are white horse. Correct.

Yes, we are. Okay, you're white horse. And again, so I want to go back because I want to do basically, I want to do 90 minutes on Ville, okay? Okay. Sort of just kidding. Not really. We'll see. But white horse.

has a new album out called All I Want is All of It. Yes, we do. We made three records during the pandemic. That was probably too many. And we kind of got our hearts broken as I think all rock and rollers

or touring musicians, indie rockers have had because, you know, the landscape was so weird following the pandemic that most of us came out and were like, what was going on? Is it? Do I still have a job? Do I still have a thing? And so that was weird and hard. But so we took a minute to regroup and then this record, I didn't really want to make it. You know, we, uh, we, Melissa had spent some time on the rope at Blue Rodeo and she,

was hanging out at Jimmy Bostkill's place and he has this old farmhouse outside of Coburg. And she was like, oh my God, she called me. She's like, I want you to see this place. This place, I want to make a record that sounds like this place looks. And it's sort of like music from Big Pink era, kind of like vintage instruments and very cool vibes. And so we, we got started writing songs. And when it came time to start recording, all I could think is, I don't want to make a record. I don't like my songs.

I don't like this band. I don't like your songs. I think we're boring and who cares. And she was like, well, that's not really useful. So keep writing songs and we're going to start recording in two weeks. And she just sort of slammed the door and walked away, metaphorically speaking. And then ultimately we spent, you know, a year making a records very slowly, but also very much like we went in the studio and we would record some songs and we didn't fuss over them.

We just recorded them as if the studio is a place to capture a moment as opposed to create it. And that was first for us kind of in a decade. or so and I love the record now. I love her songs. I love it. The whole process was really gratifying. So it's humbling to realize how wrong you can be. Yeah, like you hated it. You hated everything about it and now you love it. Yeah. So the, you know, the motto here, the moral of the story is just trust your wife. Trust your wife. Also, I remember John K. Sampson saying this thing one time. He was talking about, about writer's block. I don't know. I can't remember where we were. It was some kind of like maybe a folk festival stage that we were sharing and people were talking about.

their experiences, something like that. And he said, you know, bus drivers don't get bus drivers block, and school teachers can't get school teachers block, and construction workers don't get construction workers block. So you don't get to have writers block, do your job. And I think there's something to that. Something. But it's an art form, right?

I feel like, I get, well, first of all, who am I to question? The Canadian legend that is John K. Simpson, okay, wow. Yeah. You know, you just drop in that name, love it already. But, like, it's art. It's not like, you know, plumbing. I guess I agree, but I also think that there's two schools of thought, right?

One is that you have to wait for inspiration to strike, and the other one is that it's 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration. I don't know which one's true. I think about my favorite bands. Like, what about, like, how many records has Sloan made, right? Many. Have they made 20? I don't know.

And they're all really, really good. And I know those guys don't all always want to hang out. And yet every two years, they put out a record, and they're still incredible. So that to me is a testament to just do your job. Yeah, that's a good point, because that's how. they put food on the table and pay the rent slash mortgage is by putting out new music and then touring on it. Or maybe just how you feel like you have a function in the world.

It's like, well, this is what I do. I make songs. You know, I miss, I wanted to go. They have an annual garage sale, and it was this past weekend. And it was in my calendar, but I was stuck in North York at my son's soccer game and I couldn't get there. But they got that Sloan garage sale, man. It's worth the drive.

You came from far away, right? I grew up. Well, I came from far away. You mean today? Yeah, well, today, and then you could tell me where you grew up. Oh, life. Well, I'm currently living in Burlington. That's pretty far.

That's the home of the Spoons. Right, which I didn't know. I'm not sure I entirely understood that until very recently. Or even who the Spoons were. But that's correct. Not to be mistaken for Spoon, my son's current favorite band. Yeah, don't mistake those bands at all. But you weren't, you didn't grow up listening to Nova Heart on CFNY or anything like that?

No, I grew up in Winnipeg. So there's that. So it was 92 City of favorite. John K. Samson. Or 97 Rock KS. F. F.F. John and I went to junior middle school together. So I've known John since we were teenagers. But anyway, yeah, Winnipeg.

And I left Winnipeg when I was 19 and I moved to Vancouver and lived there for a decade. And then I moved here to Ontario 20 years ago. And so we're going to kind of walk. We're going to revisit that. We're going to walk through your, you know, music making life. But I thought two things. One is I want to get to this early because we're recording on a Wednesday. I'll drop this right.

way. So this will be in the Toronto Mike podcast feed on Wednesday afternoon. That's June 3rd. But I am excited to be at Christy Pitts on Sunday to see the Toronto Maple Leafs in action. And I'm just, if you're, you know, listening and you're looking for something to do on a beautiful Sunday afternoon, fill the hill at Christy Pitts, grab a beer, grab a, not a hot dog, but a hot dog, and check out some awesome baseball. Yassie L. Pueg and the guys and come say hi. I'll be there at 2 p.m. And I have for you, Luke, a book on the history

of Toronto Maple Leafs baseball. Wow. I've been to the park and I've watched them play and it's as much fun as you described. Yeah, Mother Nature plays a big role I've noticed. Like if Mother Nature cooperates,

there's nothing better, no better value in the city, that is for sure. And I think Sunday might be a great day. So I would love to play something from the new album and then we'll go back and then bring us to White Horse,

okay? Sure. Like, so do you, I'm going to play if it's okay with you. I'm not even asking you. I'm just going to play it. You ready? Yep.

Money from the milk and the milk made I want the milk A money from the milk and the milk made As an appetite Hunger pains a sleepless night Lust is no mere But the honey for the birds The honey for the bees

I want the money from the milk in the milk I say not eat your cake Can't have it to cross the kitchen floor Up against the windows And up against the doors I want money from the milk and milk made Dude, this sounds great Thanks

Kudos man Like I was, I told you via email That I've been listening to a lot of White Horse This past week Anticipating your Toronto Mike debut Love it Thank you Thank you

Talented SOB you are I appreciate that No wonder Melissa's still crazy about you Or crazy, I can't matter how she ended that sentence Okay, so new white horse album called All I Want is All of It. This is, I guess, the lead single. It's funny to talk about singles in

26. Like, is there a radio station that will play I Want the Milk? No, probably not. I mean, you know, we were hoping that even the Mighty CBC might get behind it. They've chosen a different song to play. You know, I think that any song that requires a setup that's longer than the song itself

is probably problematic, and this one might be one of those. But why not play? I don't know why you got to choose a different single. Like just to play all of it. I know. I know. All I want is all of it. This is a catchy ditty.

Like I was singing this to myself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Great. Thanks. I mean, I don't know. You know, I'm sort of like of the keep it simple, stupid mindset these days with songwriting. Like, you know, Melissa will write convoluted melodies and they're beautiful and they take you many different places.

And I'm just like, I'm just going to stick to three chords and some lies. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, three chords in the truth. Yeah. Now, the melody, the harmony. Harmony. No wonder you married this woman. Listen to this. I want the milk.

Money from the milk. Indy 88 should be playing that song. Well, maybe they will. That's a good point. I know a guy on the air there, but he doesn't have control over the music. I got to get myself to the decision maker who chooses what they're going to load into the automation machine

to play on Indy 88 because that would sound great there. Okay, I'll work on that as a side project. But, okay, so we're going to go back and we're going to go back in time and then get ourselves the Whitehorse. but off the top, could you tell me, I'm pretending like this is off the top, we're probably 20 minutes deep. Sure.

Why the name Whitehorse? You're not from Whitehorse. No, but that's a good question. In fact, we named ourselves Whitehorse so that people would ask us the question, so that we would have the opportunity to talk about it. It was more a geo-geography thing. Like, you know, we get accused of making Americana.

And I say accused because... Like the band. Like, yeah, like the band. I mean, like so many Canadian artists that we know and love. And it's just an unfortunate term given that we're in Canada. but also what does it really mean even some of the greatest artists in the genre hate the term because it's kind of a ghetto it's like you know it's country music or it's rock and roll or it's blues or it's bluegrass or it's i don't know and um and so but we knew that we were going to get

we were going to sort of fall under the rubric of americana and and we wanted an opportunity to let let people know that we were from canada so we thought well let's call ourselves something canadian like a Canadian geographic location and we sort of toyed with with yellow knife for a while that would be the other one right and the merch would be amazing imagine like the sort of black punk rock t-shirt with an outline of a yellow silhouette of a knife would be amazing. But then we realize we're kind of pussies and we're not really rock and roll enough for for yellow and I. So we settled, we settled on something a little more sort of PG-13 and have you been accused of appropriation because you're not from white horse?

No, not at one at all. I'm going to do it now officially. Sure. No wonder, no, I'm just kidding. I don't really care. You know, like, you know, the name, I don't know, white, there's thing is, I mean, Dylan Thomas drank himself to death at the white horse saloon in the West Village in New York City. There's lots of reasons to co-op the concept of Whitehorse, whether it's whiskey or a bar or who knows what. Or it's a very beautiful city, it turns out, in the Yukon.

Okay. So you told us earlier you were raised in Winnipeg. I was. Okay. But you're not born in Winnipeg. You're actually like a maritime. How old are you when you end up in Winnipeg? That's right.

I was seven or was I eight years old when I moved to Winnipeg. Yeah. So the early part of my life in Nova Scotia. My dad's from Cape Breton is Acadian from Shedy Camp. And my mom is Irish Catholic, relapsed Irish Catholic from Amherst, Nova Scotia, the Ormond clan. So the Doucettes and the Ormans. And they met at St.Effects University. And then in 19, they split up in the late 70s.

And finally in 7980, my family moved to Manitoba. So shout out to Winnipeg. And then at some point, I want to hear from you, but the legend has it that at a very young age, you get on a Greyhound bus and you head to Vancouver. Well, actually. What's the real deal here? I mean, I did a couple of weird journeys. I took the term. when I was 11 years old, I took the train from, I left home for six weeks, sort of with a, with a bag of laundry on a stick. And I took the train across Canada by myself for almost two months. And I went, I went east actually, Toronto, went to Montreal, went to Nova Scotia and stuff. And then I went back to Manitoba. And then when I was 13, I took the Greyhound bus and I went out to Vancouver for Vancouver. And I went out to Vancouver, and I went out to Vancouver because I was in this sort of hippie, um, for expoe, um,

sort of acid induced jam band from Winnipeg, like sort of folk festival hippies making jam music, I apologize. But, and we would always play, we always went west. Wait, what's the name of this band? The band was called Acoustically inclined.

Okay, a Winnipeg band. A Winnipeg band. And we were, and it was a bunch of really great players that really inspired me, like Richard Moody's, this viola wizard who, even to this day, is just a mind-numbingly talented person. And there was a bunch of people in the band who I loved,

Barry Marachnik, a drummer who I worked with for many years is also a lovely guy. So I've joined this band and we toured and we always went west. And so we'd go to Vancouver and then when you're from the prairies and you end up in February in Vancouver for that one day the sun comes out, it's pretty beguiling and it's a seductress. And so I moved to Vancouver thinking it was Hollywood and I lived there for a decade and played music.

Okay, well, we're going to get to that. But there's another Halifax woman who ends up on the West Coast. Right. You know, this person, believe it or not, more commercial success than even Whitehorse. Can you believe that? That's a stretch. I know. I know.

Difficult to believe. It is. But tell me about your relationship with Sarah McLaughlin. Right. I met Sarah actually outside behind Amigos canteen in Saskatoon, probably in 1991. I was on tour with the band I just mentioned, this band called Acoustically Inclined. And the promoter came to us on a Sunday night and said, you know, you guys, have been playing all week, that's great, but

I made a mistake. I double booked you tonight, and there's this ingenue from Halifax, who's going to play tonight, and would you mind sharing the bill? I was like, no, that's cool, we don't care, it's good times. And so, that was Sarah, and she just completely flummoxed all of us, like we were a game. The whole drive, the rest of the West, we were stunned. Nobody said a word for a week.

We're like, oh, my God. And then, you know, six months later, I was living in Vancouver, and I got a phone call from, from her drummer saying, you know, we've had some, we're going to make a change, we need a guitar player, I don't know if you're interested in giving it a go. So, you know, I learned everything she ever wrote and she hired me. That's unbelievable.

This is a global sensation, Sarah McLaughlin. Yeah, I mean, at the time, she was merely a burgeoning Canadian sensation. But even still, she had two records out and they were on much music. And she was such a... Yeah, she was in the mud. Yeah. And she was fantastic. And she was really...

She's an incredible talent. Like, just when Sarah sits down on the piano for five seconds, and she's warming up or the guitars, it's like, what did you just play? And everything you just played was perfect. And how, what? It's almost, it almost beggars belief, actually, the way that she sits down an instrument and what comes out of her fingers or her voice. Yeah, pretty great.

She's still going strong. Now, I have, you know, many a maritime musician on. And it seems to me, who am I to question these things? But it feels like Sarah presents herself as a West Coast artist. Like, it feels like she's sort of parked this Maritime's chapter. of her musical career, she's kind of parked it. And if those who know, no,

but it's not something she seems to celebrate. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, she left when she was really young, and I don't know. Get her on Toronto mic. Do I have questions for her? Yeah, okay. I'll call her immediately.

I'm on speakerphone right now. Sarah, I have a question about your Halifax years as a musician. She and I used to live on the same street in Halifax. And we didn't know this until we were in our 20s and we had a conversation, but exactly where we lived. And I'm like, wait a minute, you lived on that street, so did I. That's crazy. So I probably threw snowballs at her when I was five and she was nine.

Mind blow. Okay. So you were in her band, but I'm going to play a song and then I have a question about this. I'm going to play, I have a question from a listener, and then, of course, I have a million questions. But let's listen to something. That doesn't quite sound like White Horse. Let's listen. Luke, I need all the details about Veal.

Wow. Yikes. Do you have any details about Veal? Well, I mean, sure. I came off the road with Sarah and we spent two years, two and a half years on the road promoting her record called Fumbling Towards Ecstasy, which was the one that broke her. What an album. I still love that record.

And I joined her band when I was 19 and that was the record we were getting ready to play. I didn't play on the record, but I learned it and we went toward it. And then I got after that two and a half years, I was just so in need of something scrappier and sort of more downtown Winnipeg and a little bit more juvenile island testosterone fueled. And so I found myself in one of those rehearsal spaces in Vancouver, where there's penises drawn all over the wall. And I was with Chang, my buddy Chang from Winnipeg and my friend Barry Marachnik, who I mentioned earlier, all Winnipeg, expat Winnipegers living on the West Coast. And we just put this band together. And it wasn't meant to be a band. It was meant to be

something to do once a week just for fun to let off steam. And, you know, it was sort of like, how can we channel Camper Van Beethoven and, you know, like whatever punk rock music that we were listening to when we were teenagers. And then before long, we started having gigs, and then we made a record, and then we made another record, and we spent a bunch of years on the road. And it just, it was just three people who sort of seemed really committed to banging our heads against the wall for the better part of a decade, because we wanted to make music that nobody wanted to hear.

Okay. I will say, VIL sounds amazing to my ears, but I have this, like, definite, a soft spot for what I call, like, 90s CanCon alternative. Yeah, interesting. I mean, I guess that's exactly what it was because this stuff was made in 95, 6, 7, 8, 9 into the early 2000s. I mean, I think of the CanCon, I sort of agree, like the early days of indie rock in Canada. The 90s was such a great era. I mean, I don't even just being on the road back in those days, I think about bands like Furnace Face, like punk rock bands from Ottawa. I just did a Furnace Face deep dive. Yeah, with the chap from Furnace Face. He's in Ottawa. Yeah, yeah, Ottawa guys. And every city had.

six, eight, ten, fifteen bands that were on the national circuit making independent music. And the thing that they had in common, at least from my recollection, which I admitted is sort of rosy, hindsight being what it is. But like, they were all really good bands because you play, they would do 150 shows a year and half of those shows would be in their own hometowns. So you're constantly playing to people who are, you know, partying. And it's not a concert where people are sitting on their hands. It's like, no, it's a, it's a very living experience. So I also sort of lionized the era that that to me was the golden era of live music is, is the first, the early indie rock period,

like after the Pixies, after 1988, and up until, you know, until alternative, the word alternative became synonymous with, with frosted tips. Right. Like, we already shouted out Sloan, right?

So you got, but Winnipeg band, the Watchmen were going concerned in the, when Veal is recorded. Well, so Veal was in Vancouver, the Watchmen were right, Winnipeg.

But definitely, yeah, yeah, the Watchmen were happening. I'm like, I'm staring at something, like the Watchman logo is to my right. So they're top of mind over here.

Yeah. Well, I mean, the Winnipeg's such a small town that, like, again, like, I spent some time at Calvin High School, which is where Danny Graves went to school. And so, and I've, I've just, Sammy Cohen, like, we've been jamming together since we were. He's drumming up results. Yeah, like, I guess everybody knows everybody. I don't need to drop names of any. No, actually, can I tell you? I like the name dropping. Okay.

I mean, it's just, I just, all that, the Canadian music scene is small. We all sort of know each other. If you've been at this for long enough, you've come across, you've sat in a, in a green room and, like, shared, and beer with everybody at least once. Right. So Veal, I'll let me ask you a question first from Steve Leggett.

Steve Leggett writes, I have a memory that Veal used to open their show with a Zeppelin riff. I can't remember which one. Maybe Luke remembers. Veal was the first band I ever saw at North by Northeast. Wow.

You know what? I don't know if we, you know, we open, we usually open with with this sort of like really intensely heavy sort of surf, but Zeppelin inspired instrumental.

But it wasn't actually a Zeppelin track. A Zeppelin inspired, like a shadowy man on a shadowy planet type deal maybe. Kind of, but with much bigger guitars, but still like kind of like, yeah, hard rock surf music, which when I say that sounds. Was that butthole surfers? Well, maybe. I mean, I certainly, I remember seeing the butthole surfers in Vancouver in the early 90s and having my mind blown. You know, who else I saw who inspired me a lot?

Please tell me. Remember Shutter to Think? Did you ever see Shutter to Think? It's ringing a bell. They made this really great soundtrack, film soundtrack record to a movie called First Love Last Rights. And Chris Wedron was the main dude in the band who I think is like now he's a singer. He's like a songwriter for hire, which is really horrifyingly embarrassing.

But this band, I saw them. I brought my little brother who was 13 years old to see the Foo Fighters the first time they ever played in Vancouver. And I wasn't particularly huge Foo Fighters fan. but, you know, he was a big Nirvana fan, and he was visiting Vancouver for the first time from Winnipeg. And I was like, hey, you know, Dave Grohl is in this new band. Should we go see them?

And he lost his mind. Like, you mean we can go watch Dave Grohl? Like, yeah, let's go see. But the opening band was shutter to think. And they were unbelievably cool. It kind of like, if you took, like, sort of art rock smarty pants guys, like the Rio Statics or like rush. And but if they weren't from Canada,

if they were American and therefore they probably were, like, half of them were homeless. It's funny you put those bands together because, the latest Rio Statics album features Alex Lifeson. Right, right, right. The Great Lakes. Great Lakes, I think it's called, something of Great Lakes in the title.

Am I right that that is in lieu of Martin Tiele? Yeah, no, you're right, because Badini was here, like last month, and I asked him straight out. I always asked for my Martin T.L.E. update. Yeah. He was invited, and Martin took a pass. Yeah, which is, you know,

that's a heartbreaking because Martin is so wonderful. But Martin remains wonderful. He's just doing different things. He's doing different things. Okay, I love name-dropping these. Hamilton's got the Killjoys, and I feel like that's another one of those bands from this era. Right. I was really digging the kill-jord.

And much music, what is the role? So, okay, so did much music play enough veal? No. No. No, they didn't play. We didn't get much love from much. Pun intended. Okay.

But did they make it on to, I don't know, Terry David Mulligan's Much West, or any kind of specialty program? Yes. Terry David Mulligan was always very generous and it did give us some love. Yeah. You know, Terry David Mulligan's still going strong. He's got a podcast.

I got to get him back because he promised to come back and do a deep dive into his years with Joni Mitchell. I think they were professional years. I got to find out from Terry David Melgan. Who knows? But he's still going.

He's in his like mid-80s now. Interesting. Still going strong, Terry David Mulligan. He didn't like that much music was, he said it was, of course, it was centered here. in Toronto on Queen Street. But he always felt like

the rest of the country was an afterthought. That's interesting because I was identified more with the West because of my touring life. Like I think about like the Northern Pikes and the Winnipeg bands

you talked about. And I think about, you know, even Vancouver, even early network days, like the grapes of wrath, I still to this day, I hear their songs and I feel like I'm listening

to outtakes from Romer Soul. Like I love the grapes of Rath. All the things are... Like, what a song, right? And even 5440. Like when I hear it, think about baby ran it's like how can this be a song from a band of my friends in van vancouver that's not possible this this has to be echo in the bunnyman or it has to be i don't know

like i i love 5440 so you know i don't know but a cat you can they can do a i don't know a 25 song set in every song you know from the radio yeah and and and they don't sound they they sound uh suspiciously not canadian not that that would be a bad thing either way but but like they sound like a like a british new wave band i i don't know i i i think uh neal osborne has has has written some fantastic songs. And his daughter's good, too. Candle. I had,

briefly had Candle on the program. But yeah, I love 50440. I love all these bands. What about the odds? I do love the odds very much. In fact, in fact, they have played on some of White Horse tracks. Like, there are some tracks that we recorded

that feature Craig and Doug. And I mean, that first record was it called Neapolitan, which had King of the Heap on their first record. And I saw them at the town pump in Vancouver, probably in 94-95. And at the time, Paul Brennan was playing drums. And Paul Brennan played in my solo band. I made four records before White Horse just under Luke Doucette.

And Paul played in my band for a bunch of years because I saw him playing with the odds. And he sounded to me like the drummer in XTC. Like there was a kind of snap to his playing. And I just never heard a draw. I still to this day think Paul Brennan is one of the most inspiring musicians I've ever heard in my life. And I heard him play with the odds. I'm going to ask one more drop one more name

I say that and I'll probably drop several more names but another name because only because she's now a neighbor of mine who lives in Mimico and again I was going to explain the boundaries off the top do you remember that like about half an hour ago I do that it is a panhandle so Mimico is both north of here and

east of here so you know we won't be too specific but there's numbered streets in New Toronto and when you go east of the numbers you are in Mimico very interesting the magic street is Dwight. That is the border, Dwight. Good to know. And it's also north because it's this panhandle thing.

But most guests think they're visiting me and Mimico, but you off the very top in the cold open, you nailed it. You must do a lot of biking on the waterfront trail. I have done a lot of biking on the waterfront trail. That is true. I lived in near High Park for years, and my and Melissa's family are in Burlington, which is why we're living in Burlington now. So I would do the bike ride many times. But also, my father-in-law, Ed McClellan, grew up in New Toronto. Wow.

So he would talk about New Toronto and we're like, well, what's New Toronto? And then I drove my bike through it. And I see these sort of really charming sort of 40s, 50s bungalows. I'm like, I get it. I get it. I get it. They were for people who, I don't know if they were executives, but management, I guess, at Goodyear.

So a lot of people in New Toronto worked at the Goodyear plant. It was like one of the major places to work. And they had like kind of like those homes you described, were almost like the homes that they lived in the neighboring in New Toronto where Good Year's located. Amazing. I think that's story there. Okay. And they're older than that.

Like, I think these houses are typically built in the early 1900s. Okay. 1910s. Okay. For some reason, I always associate bungalows with post-war. Yeah, because those are actually near Queensway, and this will segue over to some beer, okay? This is why I'm an award-winning podcaster, Luke, okay? But near Queensway and Royal York, there are these old wartime bungalows that is exactly what we're talking about.

So also near Royal York and Queensway is Great Lakes. brewery. They're at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard. Go to Great Lakes Beer.com and they sent over some fresh craft beer for you, Luke! Oh, he cracked open at Canuck. That's the go-to, brother. Canuck Paleo. Let me know what you think. That is delicious.

See, I would have got a colder one. I know some people like their beer colder, but it's cold down here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Enough people have complained about it. Okay, so I will tell you, Luke and everybody listening, that I have a free, free as in beer. I have a free event on June 25th, which is a Thursday, 6 to 9 p.m. at Great Lakes Brewery.

Again, that's down the street from the Costco and South Atopico here. And I can tell you your first beers on the house, courtesy of Great Lakes Brewery, our hosts for this evening. And I am going to ensure that there is fresh Italian food from Palma Pasta. They're sending over food for 100 people, okay, Luke. So everybody come hungry, come thirsty, enjoy Great Lakes Brewery with me on June 25th from 6 to 9 p.m. This is TMLX22.

You got it, Luke. I got to get you and Melissa to TMLX22. I don't know what that means, but I believe you. It's the 22nd Toronto-Miked listener experience, and that's happening June 25th. That'll be amazing. I hope Brad Jones can make it. He hosts Life's Undertaking.

He is the funeral director at Ridley Funeral Home. They are located in New Toronto. And later today, Brad Jones will be here to record an episode to Life's Undertaking. So I hope Brad can make TMLX 22. All right. By the way, Palma pasta sent over a frozen lasagna.

It's in my freezer right now. You can take that home with you. You mentioned Brad Jones, and I'm just Googling the name because I think Brad Jones produced one of the best Liz Phair records. I got to find out later today. Brad, have you been moonlighting as a producer?

Liz Fair, I love dropping these 90s alternative artist names here. Keep it going here. Okay. There's a lot of Brad. There's even a Brad Jones, I think, worked at Chum here in Toronto, like an old radio guy. I've been told about it. I think there's a, that's a very common name. But, hmm.

Well, I'm, you know, having looked him up, I don't see, I don't see the Liz Pharrell. Oh, no, Liz Fair. But maybe I'm just, you know, I drop names, but not very carefully sometimes. That's okay. Liz Fair. I mean, fucks like a volcano, as I remember. I don't know that from first-hand experience, everybody. But this is, I wish, this is a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home.

Now I'm going to drop the name on you. She's now living in Mimico, but she was born and raised. Oh, not born, sorry, but she was raised in Winnipeg, and then she spent decades in Vancouver. Any relationship with Biff naked? Oh, that's interesting. I don't really know Biff, but you're right. I mean, she was sort of traveling in similar circles.

My friend Brad, or sorry, his name is Chang to meet, the drummer in Ville, it was good friends with Biff. So sometimes he would talk about their friendship when they were younger. And I think that it's, I think that Biff might have babysat his daughter. I can't, I don't know. She's nice enough to do that. Yeah, I don't, but I don't know if, I don't know her. I was just one of those people I was aware of and I would sort of look around the world and see if I ever saw her.

She was following you, but you went to Burlington and she went to Mimico, but, you know, you can, you can bike between the two if you're a good cyclist. Do you still get out on the trails? You know, I, I do, I try to. I'm not riding as much as I was because my back is in, not in great shape. I was, I did a lot of running for a lot of years and then, and then I sort of transitioned into cycling, and now I'm taking a break from that to try and, repair yourself. Repair my back. Oh, geez.

I know that I never, I had like a brief flirtation with running and it didn't end well and I realized cycling is for me. It's that low impact workout to be easier on the knees at least. Okay. Yeah.

Why does Veal break up? Veal breaks up because, you know, we didn't really break up. We didn't actually break up. We never broke up. We just, I made a solo record and then all of a sudden that became the priority

because I was able to go and work on my own and play and do, and it was just easy. to make a living, just feeding one mouth instead of three. And also, you know, people were more receptive to my solo work than they ever really were to the band, which broke my heart because we really worked hard and we loved each other and we thought we were cool. But then, you know, we made it, we did a reunion tour a year and a half ago. I was sort of complaining to the powers that be at six shooter records that I missed doing some of my older stuff from,

from a decade and a half ago, primarily my solo stuff. And they were like, yeah, but you know, we're trying to. promote the white horse thing and that the two the two sounds might be too close together and people may be confused they might think that your band's breaking up or they might think you and Melissa are on the rocks i don't think you should go out and play solo so i was like oh that's a bummer but and so helen bless her heart yeah she came back to me she said well what if what if we do the 20th anniversary of or is it 30th 20 yeah 30th anniversary of hot loser the very first um indy release of by veal and i was like what do you mean she's like well what if you just go out and do like

10 shows across the country, you know, just take you guys in a minivan. And I was like, oh my God, what a blast. And so we did that last year, and it was an absolute blast. You're sort of like a city in color, but still keeping Alexis on fire going there. You can do both. I don't know. Is that a bad? Just like them. You got to move to Nashville. Yeah, we did. My wife and I lived in Nashville. How long were you in Nashville? Just for a year. I didn't like it. What didn't you like about it? Um, I didn't like, it wasn't so much, like, a couple things. First of all, I still had this idea, and this is my fault, not the city of Nashville's fault, that it was a country, that it was a mainstream country industry, and it infected my, it, that's a, that's a Freudian

slip, but it's true. It infected my music in a way that I didn't, that it wasn't sincere. It was sort of glib. I just started writing these kind of like Midwestern John Cougar Melanchamp type country rock songs, because I couldn't shake the fact that I was in Nashville. And, and, and, and, you know, just, it's a conservative city, and I don't mean necessarily politically, although I think that might also be true. I just mean like I couldn't go out and run or ride my bike or hail a taxi or take TTC, you know, take to take public transit because the city doesn't work that way. I remember calling a cab one time to get from a barbecue place to try and get back to my, my apartment, which was near Belmont University. I waited for an hour and a half for a cab because in Nashville, everybody just drives

everywhere. Car centric. Yeah. So it's like you go hanging out at a bar and drinking a bunch of PBRs and eating barbecue for hours. And then what do you do? You just drive home? I guess so. And I was just like, I don't want to live here. I'm with you, man. I feel like we're cut from the same cloth, except I can't sing or play guitar, but we'll get to that in a minute. So I now want to... I have more questions about this pivot

to a solo career, but could you maybe share with me your kind of... I think it's a unique relationship with... You said them already. Six shooter records. Like, how did you get hooked up with six shooter records and tell us a little bit about that relationship?

Okay. Shana DeCartier came out and saw Feel Play at North by North or was it CMW? Probably North by Northeast showcase at the Rivilly, I believe it was. On that bill that night,

Sam Roberts and Sum 41. So it was Ville, Sam Roberts, Sum 41. And Shauna was there. And after we played, she came bounding up to us just like all of her positivity and her effervescence. And she's like,

oh my God, what an amazing thing I just experienced. Do you have management? And we were like, no, we don't. We had recently and we no longer do. and she's like, well, I want to manage you. And then we were like, okay, well, anybody who's this enthusiastic is probably going to be able to bring something positive to the table. We were a little bit cynical, skeptical because we had had various managers in situations that hadn't worked out.

Right. So, you know, yet again, somebody's promising us the world. And we kind of rolled our eyes and said, well, whatever, if you feel this strongly about it, sure, go ahead. And that was 25 years ago. And, you know, Shana became a record label at that she was not a record label at the time. and we tried to find a proper home for Ville and we weren't able to. And so she started six shooter records to put out VL records. And she was managing the weaker dance for a while and she was managing the Rio Statics.

And now they've released 180, I think it's 188. I think all I want is all of it is pushing 200 releases for six shooter in 25 years. So, you know, it's started off as just, it's basically the company is Helen, Britain and Shauna de Cartier. and we've been working with both of those women for at least 20 years, but Shauna for 25. So it's very much a family, and we're still putting records out with them, and they still help us keep our lives in order. Well, you're the spark that helped start that fire. Yeah, something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I will take credit for naming. I'm going to write a Springsteen song here. I did name the label. Six Shooter Records was my idea. I would make a T-shirt that said I named Six Shooter Records. I should. Just make one T-shirt.

So, I was. reading that your bandmates and veal felt some of your songs you were writing were too soft for veal and that's why you had to go solo that's interesting i think the re i mean chang literally a quote too soft too soft they thought the songs were too soft well i mean i i i was i you know the thing is i was raised my on my mom's

milk crate full of lps which was like paul simon and and and j jay kale and randy newman and tom waits and and and and emilu harris and jay Joni Mitchell, you know, hippie music. Singer songwriter American Songwigs stuff. And, you know, and I wasn't all, I didn't have much interest in playing music like that, sort of introspective, solipsistic, singer, songwriter music about feelings.

Until there just came a point when I realized that that was something that I couldn't do with Veal, because we were sort of like a, you know, knuckle dragging, pounding. Like head. Well, I don't know, heads on the mind too, because I just read this review of when Head and Sloan did

this showcase before smeared, I think. And it was like a skating review of Sloan. It's just from the archives 100 years ago. But anyway, I mean, it's not the greatest thing. I think that's the greatest thing about Sloan is that they can, they can, you never know if they're going to be the best band you've ever heard or the worst, you know, live. Because they're an organic entity that does things.

Yeah, they all sing. They all play drums. You never know, they just swap out for shits and guilt. Is there another Canadian band that has four members that will all sing lead on, you know, radio hits? I mean, I was going to say the only other band I can think of that has four members that will sing lead would be the Rio Statics, but they didn't have radio hits. No. No.

Well, they had record body count. Oh, Claire. Right, Claire. That's it. Now we're done, I guess. And Claire, but, and Claire is a Tim Vesley song, and it's such a good song. I love that. I really love that.

Claire always reminded me of coax me by Sloan. Yeah. I can hear that. The chord changes are similar. Very similar. Yeah. I think I told Badini that once. I don't know if he loved hearing it, but yeah.

Do love. And shout out to Badini. I'm going to have on Jason Colette, who's going to promote, we're going to talk about his career, but he's going to promote a, there's a West End Phoenix music.

It's happening at Palais Royal, which you've probably biked by a few days. I biked by it yesterday. But Ron McLean is hosting this thing. It's like in September, but it's some amazing artists on the bill, including the unofficial mayor of Hamilton, Tom Wilson.

That's as deep as, how deep does your voice go? Tom Wilson. You win. It must be the mustache. Yeah, maybe it's the mustache. Like, I try to imitate Tom and I realize, what am I doing? Like, I can't get close to how Tom Wilson.

No, the only person who can imitate Tom Wilson is either Tom Wilson or Barry White. Can't get enough of your love, baby. Yeah, that's why the snakes in Springfield responded to that base. You don't know what I'm talking about. Nope. You know what? I like to know, you know, don't speak Simpsons to Luke Doucette. Okay.

I'm going to play a little. I'm going to just briefly cover the soul. blue years before we get you back to Whitehorse. But let's listen to this. Well, I am a long-haul driver, and I'm leaving at dawn. I don't think that I will see you, so I'll leave the porch light on. I know you land at 8 o'clock, but I'll be gone by 5. I'll be waving out the window as I pass the airport by, oh, yeah.

Because I am a long-haul driver, and think that I'll be waving out the window as I pass the airport by, oh, yeah. Question I am a long-haul driver And think that I will see you So I'll leave a porch light on Turn this rig towards the north But still away While singing in my mind's blue I strumming your guitar

Two thousand miles between us yet I'm in Because I am a long-haul driver I think that I will see Question Luke Is this one of the Nashville jams? You know, no it's not Although well actually That's a really interesting question

I don't know is the truth. If you don't know, who the hell am I going to ask? Melissa would know, and she's not here, but she has a better sense of all these things than I do. I mean, it does tell the story about driving, you know, the concept of this song is, I'm going to spend all this time on the road anyway. Maybe I should be a truck driver and make money hauling bananas. And, yeah, I mean, it does describe traveling through the Midwestern states and up into Manitoba. So, you know.

So kind of maybe, yeah. Okay, is this from, I don't know if you'll remember this detail, but is this from, Bloods Too Rich? This is from, you know what? You know what? I can actually Google this one real quick here. Is it Bloods Too Rich? Only because that is the Nashville album, right?

Well, kind of. Yeah, this is, it is off Bloods Too Rich. I'm pretty sure it is. Yeah, it's the first cut. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you covered Love Cats? I did, which I think it thought was cool, but I don't know if anybody else did.

So wonderfully, wonderfully pretty. Maybe sacrilegious. I just played the Crystal Castle's remix Not in Love that Robert Smith sang on. I don't know if you know this Platinum Blonde cover. Were you listening to Platinum Blonde in Winnipeg? I was hearing Platinum Blonde. The distinction matters.

You didn't listen to Top 40. They played a lot of Platinum Blonde on the Top 40 in the Middle-late 80s. The thing about Top 40 music from 1981, 81, 82, 83 is that even if some of the music is terrible, it's such formative time in my life that when I hear it, I still makes me feel nostalgic and melancholy. See, I think because you're in Winnipeg, or I think you're in Winnipeg at this point, whenever you move from the east,

from Nova Scotia, whatever, that you're missing out on Spoons because I feel like Spoons was really a GT... I think it was a big GTA phenomenon. I know it had much music play, and I'm probably going to get corrected right away by all these people saying, they were huge in Vancouver, man.

But I just think CFNY, a Toronto station, was kind of one the big backers of the spoons. But what's their big song? Nova Hearts. Yeah, I mean, I do know that. When I hear that song. Or romantic traffic was another one.

There's a lot of big hits, actually. At least in this neck of the woods. But here's because I just recently headlined at the Elma combo. I can't believe I just said that sentence, but it's true. And as a grand finale, I had the guys from lowest to the low jump on stage and they did a song from Shakespeare. My butt. And I've been told by Sammy Cohn, aforementioned drummer for the watch. that lowest of the low were, like if you didn't receive 102.1 via your terrestrial radio,

they weren't that big. They weren't on much music. They didn't make videos. And he says his words were they couldn't fill the CMOT or ballroom. That's what he told me. Right. But they're huge here. And they're huge in Buffalo.

Yes, because they got CF&Y in Buffalo. Yep. Just like the hip are huge in Buffalo. Right. That makes sense. Okay. So I'm thinking in Winnipeg, I'm thinking you're not hearing any lowest of the low. Yeah, I don't think I was.

I remember seeing them on the circuit. again, early 90s playing shows and just being blown away, like, oh, my God. It's wild because you only know what you know from where you lived. And then you grow up and you start realizing like, oh, this band I love Rusty is only huge, only know one in Canada. Like they're not listening to Rusty in Austin, Texas or in New Jersey. Yeah. I mean, I think what you're talking about is regionalism generally, right?

Like just those days are gone because the internet has killed all that. But you're also talking about what it means to be in Canada and the CanCon system, you know, in this sort of like. this thing that props up Canadian culture in a certain way, and therefore it creates, like, it's all confusing to us, and it's confusing to Americans. And you're like, well, you know, Blue Rodeo, they're huge. Yes, good example.

You go to Pittsburgh and it's like they play to 300 people. Like, how is it possible? It's only a four hour drive from the border. Right. Well, that's the tragically hip story. They could sell the Scotia Bank Arena here. They could sell, I don't know, probably three nights in a row, I bet back in the day.

And they're playing in Chicago to like, I don't know, someplace that has a capacity of a thousand people. Yeah. Fascinating stuff. Okay, so you basically do a series of solo albums, but you're working with interesting people. There's been a few references to Blue Rodeo, but I saw Basil Donovan, for example,

was part of your solo career. The very first solo record I made called Aloha Manitoba, Basil came out to Winnipeg and played bass, bless his soul and his heart, because it was cold. It was like, you know, Winnipeg in February minus a thousand. Winterpeg. And, you know, like Basil Donovan shows up in his peatote

and his vintage Fender P-Bee base and we're walking to the studio and he's like, you know, he's pretty resilient guy and he likes to do stuff, he likes to play music and he looked at me, like, are you out of your mind? I'm like, oh, sorry, dude, this is just how it goes in Winnipeg.

And yeah, so he helped me help out on a record and Glenn Milcham has played drums on some of our stuff over the years as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, the music industry in Canada is so small. Once you've been at it long enough, you sort of know everybody because it's too small to not be pals.

Quick note, but, you know, we've mentioned the Rivoli a couple of times, a legendary venue in this city. Shout out to the kids in the hall and my buddy Hayden, who filmed as bad as they seem there. But lately with Nirvana the band, and now Nirvana the band,

The Show, the movie, and Nirvana The Band, The Show. Well, that's a confusing sentence. But it feels like the Rivoli has had this rebirth of, like, people talking about it, because it's so prevalent in the premise. I don't know,

do any of those words mean anything to you, Nirvana of the band, Nirvana of the band, the show, Nirvana of the show, the movie. I saw the movie. Okay. So I feel like there's been a uptick in like, rivally awareness.

Well, that's interesting. During the movie, Melissa and I both looked acknowledged like, wow, it's kind of painting the picture that this is a seminal legendary venue as if it's not. And then we're like, well, of course it is because we both played there 25 years ago. Right. Or, you know, so yeah. And also, Queen Street is not what it once was. You know, when it was the Rivoli and then the horseshoe and obviously the Cameron's still

there. and then the Bovying Sex Club and then what's that place that was on the corner of Bathurst and Queen the reverb and... Lees Palace? Well, it's also, Lees Palace is up on, I'm sure, right? But that whole strip of Queen used to be just like...

When I first got to Toronto, when I first time I came out and played shows in Toronto in my early 20s, I was just... It was humbling to be on Queen Street and to look around and be like, wow, look at how much is happening here. And I mean, you know, music obviously, but also fashion and food and culture and people.

Without a doubt, you're right. Yeah. Right. And then the big brands came in and Queen Street moved to like Ozington or something. But you still, I mean, those venues you're shouting out are still active and there's still, you can still catch great bands at the Horseshoe Taverns. You can. The horseshoe is still great. It still happens. I mean, you know, we could have a conversation about whether or not the landscape of live music venues is as robust as it once was. What about the Silver Dollar? What about the Dakota? What about, what about, what about is sneaky is going to survive? Sneaky D's is in big trouble. The Phoenix was supposed to close.

It got an extra year of life, but I think the Phoenix is in jeopardy. You're right. I mean, how much of that is just a product of the fact that the city is really expensive and most of art-loving people or artists themselves are now moving to Hamilton? 100. Oh, my God. Yes, 100%. So many of our great artists have moved to Hamilton. And shout out to Ralph and Mergie, who also moved to Hamilton for similar reasons. Okay, I brought up the Rivoli because one of your solo albums was recorded at the Rivley. Oh, I did a live record called Outlaws that was recorded over the course of a couple of days. I think it was called Outlaws. Yeah, Outlaws Live and...

unreleased. Right. Yep, yep, yep, yep, recorded over two days at the Rivoli. I think we did three shows over two days, a night show, and then a matinee, and then another night show. Quick note came in on the live stream from Ian's service. Hello to Ian. I'll see you next week, buddy. But Ian says, wait, wasn't Luke just at Sonic Hall in Guelph? I couldn't make the show, but bought tickets. Is that you? Yes. Yes. Yes. He bought a ticket, but he couldn't make the show. Oh, man, thank you. Yeah, thank you. I heard I got here last week. By the way, I don't know how often you do things like this? Like, how often does Luke Doucette?

I'm going to talk about you in the third person. How often does Luke Doucette sit with somebody and hear music and talk about his life and times and his career? Not very often. Like, what would happen if I played a song? I just played Long Hall Driver. What if you hated making the song

and you hated the song? I mean, those songs exist, I suppose. I would just probably say, yeah, that's, you know, it's funny. Okay, okay, okay, fair enough, let's go there. You mentioned the Rivley, you mentioned Outlaws live and unreleased. I don't think that's a great. record. I'm not convinced we should have made it.

See, but I didn't play anything from it. No, thank you. And the reason, I got lucky there, but I had a great guest here. What day is this Wednesday? Okay, this was maybe on Friday, last Friday. David Bearwall, he's from David and David, singer-songwriter, very talented son of a gun. He wrote with Cheryl Crowe, he wrote Leaving Las Vegas.

He was part of that Tuesday Night Music Club. That's a good song. Yeah. Can we talk about Cheryl Crow for just a hot minute? Yeah, go ahead. I, you know, the more I hear her, the more respect I have for her. Like, she's emerging as basically, like, the 90s female version of Keith Richards. Like, and her guitar playing. And the lyrics, like, she's shutting out Coltrane. And, I mean, I just, every time I hear those early records, Tuesday Night Music Club,

and then the next one, which had, if it makes you happy, those are banger records. Right. And she's a great musician. She plays bass like crazy. She's such a cool songwriter. She's got an amazing band. Actually, Fred Elterngo plays drums in her band, plays drums on the new Whitehorse record. Okay.

You know what? You're blowing my mouth. Luke, you're in the right place here. Because I played, he had a duo called David and David, and they had some success. They had an album called Boomtown, or Welcome to Boomtown. I think that was a song. Album's called Boomtown.

Just like when Blue Rodeo had a song called Five Days in May, and then they had like an album called Five Days in July. Clever, clever. What the heck? Clever Buckers. So, just the confused guys, like me or whatever. But David Bearwall, he had a solo career before he went behind the scenes, but he was never comfortable with being a rock star.

But by the way, I played a really great song from one of his really fantastic solo albums. And the face I got when I started playing it, and he's like, you're not going to do this, are you? And I'm like, well, if it bothers you, I won't do it. And he was like, shut it down. Like, he says, I hated making it. I hated the song. So I realized, oh, yeah, you don't actually know how your guest will react with it. Because we don't tell our guests ahead of time what I got loaded up to play.

Like, you just sort of have to grin and bear it. I mean, I'm okay with that. Like, you know, yeah, there are things I've done in my recording life that I don't. love, I think that's probably true of everybody, but that's okay. Like, I'm kind of, I think about Neil Young. Yeah. And I feel like Neil Young, maybe the greatest songwriter of all time, made, I agree. Has written a hundred of the greatest songs that have ever been?

And yet has he written a good record in the last 25 years? I don't know if he has, right? And I think both of those things can exist in tandem. You can be the greatest of all time. And maybe the reason Neil's so great is because he's brave enough to take risks that sometimes don't work. I don't know. I'm happy that he does that.

I love Neil Young. Upstairs, I got a painting of Neil, a big fan. Okay. saw him last summer at the freshwater stage. That's what he calls it. He won't call it Budweiser stage. He ain't singing for Pepsi. He ain't singing for Coke.

By the way, Michael Jackson sang for Pepsi. And back then, I think his backup singer was a young gal named Cheryl Crow. So there you go. Indeed. Have you ever won a Juno Award? I have won a Juno Award. Leave No Bridge Unburned. The second full-length White Horse release was one Juno for,

adult film star or whatever it's called. It might be called that. Do you have this Juno on display somewhere? Are you proud of this Juno? It sits on the mantle beside the television in the house in Burlington at Melissa's parents' place. And I look at it as I'm trying to plug in the H.D.MI cable once in a while. I'm like, oh, there's that. I've been there, brother.

Yeah, you know, cool. You know, it's nice to be recognized for things that you do, which is the boilerplate thing you're supposed to say about that. I don't know. I remember one time going on this sort of tangent online back in the day when I used to argue about politics and music and philosophy on social media before I realized how stupid that was. And I was talking about, you know, the Juno's. And I was like, yeah, but what about like, I was sort of just expressing that how is it possible that Sloan has never been recognized. And I went deep enough and to the point that finally Andrew piped up on the conversation and said, Luke, the thing you're missing is that we don't care and we don't submit. He wouldn't care.

Well, he says we don't submit to the June. We don't submit for, I don't know if it's right or not. I feel like Jay and Chris would. They seem to be the business-minded people at Sloan. I just, I don't know. Okay, well, in which case. But Andrew, I could tell. He's the one who won't go to Buffalo right now, right?

So, like, I could tell talking to Andrew and he sat there. That man, he's not in it. He's not the kind of guy who would submit to the junior. No, but my understanding was that they as a band never bothered, which is why they never show up because they don't, submit for nominations, but I don't know if that's true or not. But it's interesting, but if it's not true, then Mike, my, my, my, my rant was, was well-timed and well-placed because they are the greatest band that's ever come out of Canada.

And the fact that they, that they should be, if they were making boring records and a lot of people make boring records later on in their career, they're not making boring records. And so, anyway, that, I love this Sloan talk real quick here, because I am going to play one more song by Whitehorse and kind of get that story. And I'm going to thank two more partners just before that. But it's fascinating to talk to the guys individually from Sloan. I've had all four over separately, okay? Like, for example, talking to Patrick Pentland about twice removed, okay?

This album they made twice removed following Smeard, and it's got coaxed me on it, as you know, but like hearing that this label had another band they were working with called Weezer and Rick O'Kasik was producing them, and hearing the blue album from Weezer and Patrick Pentland being like, that's what we should have done. Interesting. Patrick Pentland,

you've got to listen to him on Charmike. Just tells it like it is. Did not like twice removed. And it's regarded. I mean, people talk about twice removed is one of the great 10 Canadian albums of all time. I mean,

I'd like to have those problems. Yeah. You know, sorry I don't have more sympathy for you, Patrick. But I mean, you happen to be involved in a fantastic seminal record and you grow up. Oh, well, you'll survive. He made it. He made it here.

Okay. Thank you to Nick Ieini's who's here on Friday to record a new episode of building Toronto Skyline. We're also going to knock out another episode of Mike and Nick. And I want to say thank you to Nick and the good people at Fusion Corp for stepping up and helping to fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike. So I can

play songs that artists either like or don't like, but hey, we can find out together in real time because I don't edit Toronto Mike. So thank you, Nick. And last but not least, recycle my electronics.c.c. Luke, if you have old electronics, old devices, old cables, old HDMI cables, maybe.

spend you time about. Don't throw it in the garbage. Those chemicals will end up in our landfill. Go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Put in your Burlington Postal Code and find it where you can drop it off to be properly recycled. You got it? I do. And that's very useful because I just recently threw out a power adapter into the garbage and thought to myself, I'm sure this is not the place for this.

Those chemicals are now in our landfill. Go to the landfill. Dig it up and bring it to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Okay, I'm going to play one more song here, if you don't mind. You can't stop me. What are you going to do? Storm out of here? Look, in the biopic about white horse that they're going to make.

I feel like you're putting, this song's coming together, devil's got a gun, and somebody's yelling. You got a number one hit there, brother. Yeah. You know, we were living in New York for a couple, for a year, 10, 12 years ago. And I was running a lot. And I was running across the Williamsburg Bridge. and I would run and then I would come back on the Manhattan Bridge side and make this loop. And I had this melody in my head for probably six months.

But in my mind, it was like this kind of like Snoop Dog synth hip hop kind of. Like it wasn't, it wasn't. And I brought it to Melissa and said, I just need you to hear this before we decide that it's not appropriate for Whitehorse because it's there's no way there weren't like no way we can get away with what I'm hearing in my head. And she heard the melody. She said, well, why don't you just play it on your guitar and do it like you normally do? And I was like, oh. And all of a sudden it's like, oh my God, this is perfect. So you're good together.

Absolutely. Okay, it's all beautiful to me. So we did touch on this off the top, but here we are, like a good Tarantino movie. We're back where we started. We're in the diner. I don't know.

Can I speak Tarantino to you or no? Sure, sure, sure, sure. I watch this show in HBO. I'm almost, now, it's funny. I always like this show called Euphoria. Okay? Did you know what I'm talking about Euphoria? Have you ever seen this?

No. So it's an HBO show. This is on Crave in Canada, whatever. I just talked to Stella. It serves out to me. Anyway, I like, I really, I enjoyed season one and I really enjoyed season two and I finished up season three and there's no

spoilers on what I'm about to say except holy shit, talk about destroying what I thought was a cool show. Like this season three is just ridiculous and the whole time it felt like a fever dream from somebody who's seen one too many Quentin Tarantino movies. That's all I'm going to say. So if you are a euphoria

viewer who has just finished season three, reach out, I need to talk to somebody about this. What the hell? What the fuck. Okay. I'm throwing that into the abyss, Luke. Not to criticize anyone's art, but what the hell?

Okay. Love this song. I feel like, you know, in the band of the show, the movie, where he plays that song, that radio hit from the band with his sister. You know what I'm telling? Then in the movie, that becomes the big hit for Jay. Like, I feel like that's this song, too. Like, this song is great.

Thank you. I love this song. Yeah, thanks. You know, thank you. Thank you. It's still one of those songs that we play at every show. he better and I want to hear the Snoop Dog version I feel like he's

Didn't he do something with Classified? I don't know do you? I think so I think Snoop did something with Classified so there's a Maritime rapper who's got Snoop doing stuff so you could do something too okay so again how

I know you're married to the woman but how does, like if we can revisit how does White Horse come to be right well why does White Horse come to be you got a solo career going Yeah I mean so Melissa and I we met and you know, we, she asked me to produce a record for her.

So her very first solo record was called Stranded in Suburbia, and I produced it. And so our relationship started exclusively professional. The joke we always make is our relationship remains strictly professional for weeks. And then, anyway, so, and then it got decidedly unprofessional, but we still, we made, we made three records for her that I produced, and we made, and then tour, I played in her band. And then she plays on broken, my record broken, and she plays on bloodstream. too rich and she plays on another, my final steel city trawler solo record produced by Andrew Scott, by the way. Love those fun facts.

Yeah. Right? And so we made so many records together and then we were in each other's bands, but not always because sometimes she would do a thing and I'd be doing a thing and there was a conflict. And our fans would be like, well, where's Luke or where's Melissa or how come? How come? And so we kind of thought, well, hmm, maybe two things. Maybe we should always play together because everything.

do is better when she's around and I like to think that maybe that's true of what I contribute but not only that there's a certain freedom that comes from when you're a band you're kind of like a gang and you can assume identities and you can do whatever you want like you have more freedom there's sort of a thing about being a singer-songwriter when you're a solo artist that it sort of it presupposes a certain kind of aesthetic and a certain kind of instrumentation not really it doesn't have to be limiting but it tends to be and and we were like well what what could what could we imagine for ourselves if we if we decided to be a gang instead of solo artists.

And it did liberate us. We started being more bold in the choices that we made and we would experiment more with music. And so that was that. But at Sixth Shooter, there was some skepticism all around. Like, oh, I don't know if that's a good idea. But when we finally convinced them that we thought that this would be a real winner,

the deal was that we made with ourselves and with them was, okay, if we do this, if we start White Horse, we're not going to continue to be solo artists as well. So we haven't been, like there hasn't been a Luke Doucette or a Melissa. McClelland album or tour in in over 15 years. Okay, and now all I want is all of it is now available.

This is your fifth album as Whitehorse. Okay, maybe, I think it might be more than that. Okay, it might be more than that. Okay, outdated intelligence here. I couldn't help but notice there's somebody on the credits. I read the liner notes, Luke, okay? I'm that guy. Great.

Little Jimmy. Yeah, Jimmy. So Jimmy is our son. He's going to be 12 years old in about, a month and he came up to Coburg at Jimmy Bosco's place and he played organ and B3, sorry, Oregon and piano and Wurlitzer. He's a very good piano player. He's good enough.

Check this out. He's good enough that we're like, okay, Jimmy, this song is seeing the key of G. You know, it's just a one, six, two, five. So it's a G, E minor, A minor, and a D. Cool. Easy chords, no problem. Boom. He's going to play along.

It's all good. We practice it once or twice and realize, you know, it's not actually the perfect key for my voice. Can we do it in G sharp? That changes everything for a piano player. For most people, with their guitar play, you put a capo one and you're fine. But for a piano player, all of a sudden,

it's like sharps and flats and it's all over the place. And he's like, sorry, what are the changes again? I'm like, it's a 16, 25. And he's like, one, okay, so G sharp, and so F minor, and it's a B flat minor, and the 5 is going to be an E flat. Okay, cool, got it. And he's, so he's good enough that he was able to fly like that.

And he plays piano and organ and keys on this record. as well as Vince Jones from the Grapes of Rath, plays Keys on the record as well. But it's Jimmy who did cut all the original bed tracks with us, which was an experience that I hope everybody gets to have. I think that's amazing. I have a 12-year-old boy as well. And I think that's amazing having your 12-year-old son on the album.

Yeah, it was very sweet. Just having him hang out is great. Now he's in the band. When we tour, he plays keys in our band. Okay, there's another Doucette I see on tour, right? Chloe Doucette. Yes, Chloe is my daughter. He is turning 30 next week, and she grew up in Vancouver, and she's a singer-songwriter

in her own right, and she makes her album called Sincerely is very, very beautiful. Of course, I'm her father. Of course, I'm biased, but leave me alone. And she plays guitar and bass and sings a bunch of her own songs on the tour, and she's really, really spectacular. Okay, love all of this. Move over Candle Osborne. Okay, this is more Canadian Canrog Nepo Babies.

Just kidding. Yeah. Well, the thing is, no, let me make a good point. So she had been reagan, we had been begging her to come on tour with us and open for White Horse or whatever for a decade. And she's always like, oh, guys, I don't want to come on tour with your stupid band. Okay, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. And finally this time, and when people would ask her, why don't you just like, why not? And she's like, I don't want to be a Nappel kid because that's embarrassing.

So she kind of like turned us down for years and years and years. And only now did she finally acquiesced me. Like, okay, let's do a tour. Tom Wilson plays of his boy all the time. And Jim Cuddy, you know, we talked a lot of blue rodeo, but, you know, his boy. all the time. Both his boys. Right. Both the boys. Right. I mean, this is the Canadian rock and roll way. You know, you got to

you know, it's not like an, oh, I'm casting you in this movie because I worked with your dad or whatever. You have to be a good musician for people to want to cough up money and see you perform. And I like to think, in fact, I'm pretty confident that anybody who hears this tour, this iteration of Whitehorse and sees Jimmy on Keys and Chloe on bass and guitar is going to walk away

going, wow, those kids are really good. They're not even kids. Chloe's 30. Right. Those people, those young people are fantastic and they really are. And they add a lot to the band. I got the same thing going on with like the younger and the older. I have the same thing going on, Luke. Okay. BCP. Kurt

wrote in on Blue Sky when I said you were coming on. I'm going to read it exactly as BCP Kurt wrote it. Man, that's so cool. I once saw Luke and Raven from Digging Roots have an improvised guitar shred off at a folk festival in Owen Sound and it was one of the greatest music

moments in my life. So much talent and so much joy in that moment. The kind of thing that just stays with you forever. Well, that's pretty sweet. And that's why you do it, Luke. Yep, truly. Truly, my ego is so fragile

that I need one person to tell me I've changed their life and I'm good. And now you'll keep going. Now you'll keep going here, man. You know what? Andrew Scott, by the way, would be a good guy to bring in on that Snoop Dog remix because

he, when I talked to him last, he was working with a rapper in the U.S. on like a duo where he, you know, Andrew on drums and then this hip-hop artist rapping over his drumbeat. This was a big thing that Andrew was working on.

Oh, God, of course. You know, that's his thing. He had the red hat, but it wasn't the red hat you're thinking of. It was quite the opposite. But listen, Luke, where can people go to find out

where to see you in concert and see the family band and hear this beautiful new music? We are White Horse. That's our Instagram handle and all the usual places. Whitehorse Music.ca. And, you know, we're easy to find.

And we're going to be doing shows starting in Winnipeg next weekend and all the way out west, ending with a show at the World Cup FIFA fan choice thing in Vancouver. It's funny you mentioned FIFA because I was going, I decided not to, but maybe I'll do it right now. Because you did work kind of with Brian Adams.

I just did a tour with Brian Adams. Yeah, because Colin Cripps. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, Brian, Keith Scott had to get a procedure that he wasn't expecting. And so he was in the hospital and they didn't have much warning. So I literally got a call from Brian saying, can you be in Puerto Rico in 72 hours? And can you learn 28 songs and can you have no rehearsal?

And I was like, oh, my God. Because Brian's playing a FIFA event here. He is. And I'm going to be in Winnipeg. So I'm not involved. You're like the Winnipeg version of Brian Adams. Oh, God. People forget.

Brian's an Ontario guy. He raised. Oh, yeah, very West Coast, of course. but he was born here. Yeah. Fun fact. Okay. So many places, you know, maybe one day we do another episode.

One other little fun fact here before we say goodbye is that in the official White Horse bio, like I don't know who writes the PR stuff for White Horse, okay? They don't tell you that you're from Burlington. They say Hamilton. What's up with this? Well, I mean, we've been living in Burlington now for a couple years because we're sort of- Hamilton before. We did live in Hamilton for a long.

We bought a house in Hamilton years ago. And I feel like our spiritual home is Hamilton. I'm not sure. I apologize. I don't know. I shouldn't have called you out on the mat for that one. I mean, go ahead. Winnipeg, Nashville, Vancouver, Hamilton.

I'm like, Burlington's not Hamilton. No, you're right. And I think that Burlington is sort of this shiny pink cheeks little jewel on the lake and Hamilton's gritty and tough and stuff. And therefore there's probably a little bit of competition and some dynamics between those towns. And in fact, I have a song that touches on that very thing. it's called fire. And it's about my wife, actually,

but the fact that she's from Burlington, and I grew up in Winnipeg, which is sort of synonymous with Hamilton. And anyway, check it out. Dude, you hit it out of the park and your Toronto Mike debut. Fantastic. That's good.

Let's go back to the Toronto Maple Leafs baseball team. Okay. Thanks for doing this, man. And I know it was a long drive, but you're getting a Vizania, you're getting some beer, you got a Toronto Maple Leaf's book, and you got a measuring tape.

I'm thrilled. Thank you for having me. And that brings us to the end of our 1,9009th show, 1909. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Put in your calendar June 25 from 6 to 9 p.m. And come to Great Lakes Brewery for TMLX 22. Free event, you get a free beer, and you get some Palma pasta.

Much love to all who made this possible. That is Great Lakes Brewery. is Palma Pasta, that is Toronto Maple Leafs baseball, that is Nick Aienies, that is Recycle My Electronics.C.A. And of course, Ridley, Funeral, Home. We're going to do a deep dive Friday with the man who created the Raccoons. This is a Raccoons deep dive. Everything you wanted to know about the Raccoons, don't you dare miss it.