Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Maddog: Toronto Mike'd #92

Episode Date: October 14, 2014

Mike chats with Jay "Maddog" Michaels about his life in radio, why Billie was fired, Dean Blundell's trash talking and much, much more.

Welcome to the 92nd episode of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything, often with a distinctly Toronto flavour. I'm Mike from TorontoMic.com and joining me this week is Jay Mad Dog Michaels from The Breakfast Show with Mad Dog and Maura on Virgin Radio. That's a mouthful, Did I get it right? Yeah, man. That was great. I actually did some research because the names change. Yes. The cast stays similar and then the names change.

Pretty much. The phones are there. I got to jump right in. First of all, thank you for the coffee. This is actually my first ever dark roast. This is the new, I don't know if you drink coffee. I don't know if it's the dark roast or if it's just the dark roast cup. By the way, they got to stop asking me if I want to try dark roast coffee in the drive-thru.

I will never. So this might not be, I just had my second set. It should be regular. I don't, I don't. I mean, I get why they came out with dark roast because they got a, because Starbucks had the audacity to go light roast. So they're like, screw you bitches. We're going to come out with our dark roast. Yeah.

It makes sense to try to get some of the Starbucks guys back to Tim Hortons. Yeah, because Tim Hortons has no share of the market. There's something deceptive about putting a regular coffee in a dark roast cup. There you go. I'm a little disappointed. I don't know if you watch much TV, but lately I've been seeing an ad for Nabob where they basically make fun. They go, somebody's putting pumpkins. They're taking pumpkins out of the ground and they're putting them in the coffee and then the guy's like coffee is should be just be coffee but then it's like respect the bean which is all

fine and good and then it goes nabob so i'm thinking like who are they targeting with this ad like the starbucks uh pumpkin latte drinkers are gonna go buy nabob at like no frills yeah exactly let's go pick up a can of nabob like they're good commercials though because they bring the guy like a big uh latte with uh whipped cream on it and caramel and stuff they're like no it's great until the nabob logo comes up because it's like yeah why are we doing this fancy coffee i just want coffee which is great except then they're like get like it might as well be like get like like my folgers or like it's just you know it's just like coffee but i don't know frills i don't think that starbucks crowd is gonna go by nabob no i

think you're bang on thanks man uh so thank you for doing this um what is the deal with mad dog like when and why and how do you become mad dog well um short story is you know what i'll give you i'll give you the real story why not because? Because I find your podcast is listened to by a lot of people in our industry. It's not how many. It's who, right? Who listens? Yeah. Well, you know what?

A lot of people do. I mean, I'm a fan as well. I mean, you've done a lot of cool podcasts that I've heard. And I made a conscious decision. It's like, you know what? I'm going to give you, I'll be as honest with you as I can about everything, up to a degree, obviously. But the Mad dog name uh the

the party line is that it came from hockey which isn't that far from the truth i was a defenseman i was a really rough guy i like to i like to like to scrap a bit so i i would tell people that it came from from mad dog that's where it came from i got it as a nickname cool but the real story is is in 1999 when i flew to toronto to audition to interview with Julie Adam and Chuck McCoy at Rogers Broadcasting for the job to do Mornings on Kiss 92, I was driving from the airport in the back of the car and Tarzan Dan was on the air. Legendary Tarzan Dan. Legendary Tarzan Dan. And I thought to myself, man, if I'm going to be on a radio station with Tarzan Dan, I need a cool name. And literally, literally Mad Dog came into my head. And in the interview, I said, listen, if you guys hire me, I'm going to

be Mad Dog. And they're like, do you want to be a 45-year-old guy named Mad Dog? And I'm like, wow, I'm sure we won't have to worry about that. Yeah, right. And here we are. That's funny. 15 years later, I'm a 45-year-old guy. Is this an exclusive? Can I call this a Toronto Mike exclusive? Yeah, probably. Aside from my family and really close friends. Yeah, but that's legitimately how that happened. And you know what? It's so funny because the name Mad Dog, it's just so me at this point that people don't look at it that I know. It's kind of like a gentle nickname. It's not like I have that personality.

Yeah, you're not like you're not throttling at the mouth like with a rabid dog or whatever. Yeah, I'm not like Mad Dog Russo or one of the dudes on the satellite. And you didn't show me any teeth yet. I feel safe you yeah i would say i'm a pretty safe guy but that's that's how i got the name tarzan dan okay if you're gonna be yeah right if you're gonna be a tarzan dan you can't come in as first okay so were you already uh because i know j michaels is a fake name so were you already going as j michaels well you put a fake name on a fake name well my original fake name was mcneil because I was from the East Coast and that's where I was working. Oh, like Rita McNeil.

Exactly. You got to have a coaster name if you're on the coast. So McDougal, McDonald, McDermott. Oh, yeah. McMichael. And Michael. Michael actually came up. The whole radio thing at the time was like two first names. And yeah, I was Jay McNeil in Halifax before I came to Toronto and I did

Mornings with Jay, Harv, and Lisa on Q104. So the job that I did before I came to Toronto and I did uh it was mornings with um Jay Harv and Lisa on Q104 so the job that I did before I came to Toronto to work at Kiss doing top 40 was doing classic rock that's actually my background was in classic rock okay so you're doing classic rock and this is like a Jay McNeil thing and then I guess at some point you changed Jay McNeil to Jay Michaels or did Jay Michaels get changed when you introduced Mad Dog? Michaels came, actually Michaels came when I took Michaels from a guy named Troy Michaels. Not Brett Michaels. Nope. Not, not Brett Michaels. Not the hit man. No, Brett Michaels.

Which one was Brett? Oh yeah. Brett the hit man heart. Brett the hit man heart. Yeah. Brett Michaels is poison. Brett Michaels is poison. Yes. Come on. No. So there was this dude, there was this dude that I just, I really didn't like that screwed me over when I worked for him in Halifax.

And I thought, I'm going to take his last name. And then when he reads that I got a morning show in Toronto, I want him to know that I took his name. And his name was Troy Michaels. If you're listening, Troy, I did take your name on purpose because you were such a dick to me in Halifax. Another Toronto Mike exclusive. We've got to keep track now. Told you I was going to be honest. Well, do you believe in miracles?

That was Al Michaels. So there's Brett Michaels,aels al michaels this troy michaels douchebag out east and then uh now there's uh j michaels yeah so i just i we laughed at the last episode i told my regular co-host his name is elvis yeah his real name either but we're joking about the fact that fine your name is j what is your name i uh what is your real name well my last name is is actually uh it's french belgian and it's um well it's on the internet anyway it doesn't really matter it's doodly okay so dude did you ever see in bruges this movie oh yeah okay i only colin farrell yeah i only just saw it and it came out in 08 like i'm six years late on this and it's like like it was created for me it just hits everything i love in a movie it's amazing it's a great movie and it's like like it was created for me it's just hits everything i love in a movie it's

amazing it's a great movie and it's it makes me want to go there like i've been to amsterdam a few times but i've never actually gone into belgium like i dance around belgium uh and i'd love to go see this place now in bruges and that's where apparently my family's surname is fairly popular is in belgium and i've been trying my last name comes out of uh netherlands okay boone yeah this has been ancestry.ca that's right i need a sponsor um so okay so where was i going with that okay so your last name so you have a you decide to change it to it's just funny to have a fake name which is a mad dog on top of a fake name which is yeah so it's like you layered it yeah j mad dog michael it's it's almost like um a lie

on top of a lie on top of a lie yeah it's like this is the crap that but but this fascinates me you know what this is why i i admire guys like george strombolopoulos who just said you know what that's my name and i'm gonna use it and i wish i had had the balls back in the day or like ann roszkowski which no one can ever spell exactly like when a program director said to me you can't you can't be doodly you gotta have uh it's two names it can't be this people don't understand that name it needs to be that i mean when you're just starting out you're making 10 bucks an hour and you're doing back shift, you'll pretty much do anything to get on the air.

And that was one of those cases where I was like, I don't care. You know what? You can call me Zippy Pinhead, Zippy Bonanza. I don't really care. Our mutual friend, Howard Glassman, tells a story about starting at West. And I guess Glassman was, in his words, too Jewy. Sure. Yeah.

That happens. The humble Howard was born. Yeah. So it's the same kind of deal. I guess that that's what you did back there forever no he'll be forever humble that'll be you know it's humble like we all call him humble even though like sometimes when you're friends with people in the industry yeah you call them by their real name but with humble he's just always humble does he call you mad dog he does and he does he always says it with just a little bit of like just a little bit of i'm making fun of your name. All right, we'll get in. I want to chat a bit more about that later because you and,

you guys and Humble and Fred sort of have a history. We've crossed paths a few times. Yes, you've crossed paths a few times. But back to 92. So this, so by the way, Julie Adam, by the way, I've met several times and she's lovely

because I knew her because she, Rogers did something with the Humble and Fred podcast in the first year. So I met her a few times through them. And then I had in that same seat, Erin Davis sat there. Yeah. She talks, just raves about Julie Adam. She is without a doubt the best boss I've ever had.

Although Julie Adam did fire Erin Davis. Yeah, fired me too. Okay. Fired me too. And you know what? That's the nature of the business sometimes. And for us, it was inevitable. I mean, that was a really long story about our RCHFI debacle.

Well, let's get there. Hold on. Let's keep it chronological. Of course. So when I was at, true story, I was at St. Michael's College at University of Toronto in early 90s. Okay. And a guy there at the same campus who I saw all the time was a guy named Darren Jones

because he was doing Buzz. Do you remember Buzz? Oh, yeah. With Mr. Moe? With Mr. Moe. Right. And this guy, I mean, cable 10. And so I'd always see him and I'd go, hey, it's a Buzz guy.

And I'd wave to the Buzz guy and he was just wandering around campus all the time. I saw him almost every day. And he's your original co-host, right? Darren Jones is extraordinarily talented. And it's funny when I talk about the all too brief time that him and I had on the radio i will often tell people that you know despite the fact that i i kind of do the humor on my show i was kind of darren straight man and that was a role that i played you know i had no problem playing it because he was just it's he's just so funny it's kind of like being jeff daniels to his jim carrey yeah because he was and that's not to take away from darren's

style of humor which is incredibly bright and smart and when darren and i started working together i had never done a morning show in such a big market and he had never done a morning show period. And they had us in at the time the studios were vacated because they were moving to Victoria Street. So we were we were on Berkeley, I think it was. Right. And it was just literally Darren and I in the building.

And Julie Adam just said, just find your way. Just talk as much as you want to talk, which is unheard of now and do whatever you want to do. And we would do 25 minute breaks. And's we would talk from 5 30 until 6 and this is like uh are we in late 90s here we're about this is 99 like this is the original kiss morning show when we took over for uh for kj the dj chris james who's still on boom who by the way is my favorite my favorite dj in the city and the guy that got me my job at kiss actually and um with darren darren and i lasted eight months together so i don't know your original question Jay in the city and the guy that got me my job at Kiss actually and um with Darren Darren and I

lasted eight months together so I don't know your original question but no the original was just uh introducing the fact that um some people think you started with Billy yeah no I started with Darren Jones yeah Darren after a buzz man we had so much fun together and in in so much got jammed into such a short period I look back on it so fondly um eight months together and at the end of eight months Darren came to me and he said, I was just about to do this promotion where I lived in a car for three days for teens against violence at Fairview mall. Okay, cool. And he called me and he's like, dude, I have to tell you before you go into the car, I'm quitting. I'm leaving the show. He said, I just, I want to devote all my energy to TV.

And he was trying to do the buzz and his TV projects as well as radio. And it was really burning him out. I mean, he started the show as a 20-year-old kid, and he looked about 25 after about eight months. So I totally got it, and he left, and you've seen him probably on MTV now, and he was on Rick Mercer's show for a while, and he's got that couple shows. I think he's got a development deal probably with CBC. Are you still friendly with

Darren? Do you still talk to him? I don't talk to him as regularly as I'd like to. Truth be told, I've invited him on my show a couple of times. He hasn't been able to do it. I was about to ask if you can invite him on my show. Let me talk to him about this guy. Hey, Darren, if you listen, Mike seems to be a pretty cool guy. This basement's pretty palatial. And you feel safe? I feel safe so far.

As long as this makes it to air, I know I'm fine. Yeah, well, I'm not going to wait until the 100th episode before I do anything stupid. I'm not going to do it for episode 92. 92, man, that's a lot. I know. That's crazy. Darren Jones lasts eight months and then he quits. Quick question, though.

Did you have to do a chemistry test with Darren Jones? Julie Adam and who was the other name you mentioned? Julie Adam and Chuck McCoy. Chuck McCoy. Who was the VP of programming at the time. Do you guys sit together and they watch your chemistry? I think it was one of those cases where it was such a new station and i had a fairly fairly lengthy resume i'd already done tv i'd done radio i played well with others i'd done a few shows i

think they thought we'll throw darren in with with jay and see how it works right and it was literally one of those it was right there it was right there right away i think him and i probably could have had a really good run if he had if he had to stay with it if it if the chemistry hadn't been there uh only ask because uh brady greg brady was there in this i don't remember what episode but he was in an episode of toronto mic'd and he talked about being with uh jim lang on the 590 morning show right there's another uh roger station and he talked about how there was no chemistry and it wasn't anything wrong. Like it wasn't Lang's fault,

but he said the chemistry wasn't there. Well, actually the guy that came after Darren Jones was a guy named Kwame. Who I did not know existed. Yeah, that's right. Kwame used to do Da Vibe. I think it's Da Vibe on Kiss 92.5, which was an urban music show.

It was fantastic. And he was kind of the next guy to be co-host and management didn't really feel that that chemistry was right. Okay, good. And that's where Billy came in. How long did Kwame last? Kwame was like a month or two, probably.

And did you go to management or did management detect it on their own? No, they posted it. And actually another guy that was on the station at the time, Rob Pepper, came to me and said, dude, I think I'm going to apply for this as well. And I was like, absolutely. Like whatever is going to be best for the station, I'm in. So obviously I like it when stations try and fill in-house like they've done with Fred and Melanie at the Edge.

I think that's really smart. Or I think she was like a receptionist or something. Yeah, but I just think it's so smart. I thought that was the move they were going to make right off the bat with them. And I think they work well together and I think Fred's a great jock. So it's always nice when companies can do that instead of sort of parachuting somebody in that either works or doesn't. Are you friends with Fred?

I know Fred a little bit. My brother actually is Mark Michaels and does the morning show at Virgin Radio in Calgary. Okay. He's 10 years younger than me. And him and Fred... Wait, wait, wait. Your brother took the same fake name? Is this what happened here?

My brother stole my fake name. That's hilarious. Yeah, man. Just to get a job, I'm pretty sure. That's hilarious. But yeah, so he does mornings out in Calgary and he knows Fredred fairly well and um fred actually came i had my 40th birthday at hard rock and fred came to that and i met him that night we hung out and had a beer and i've just only talked to him like via via email but i'm a fan i'm a fan i like fred's style i like i like

his kind of like that slacker kind of cool guy kind of like it's very smart it's very informed like he really knows you know he's a professed you know quote-unquote geek but he's very very literate about it as well oh if the comic books and the superheroes and stuff yeah and i just find him he's smart and he's funny and i like his style i like his uh his pacing and stuff like that so i think it's uh i think it's a good fit it's it's really crazy i was thinking about this you know when i was going to be coming to talk to you it's it's such a great time to be a fan of radio in the city i think there's just so many so many talented people working on so many stations and you know through twitter and stuff like that we've all sort of got a little bit of a network going like i talk to scott fox regularly i talk to um i talk to chris at um at pride at proud fm

and i talk to jj is like one of my neighbors from flow jj melanie and um i'm really good i'm really good friends and a really big fan of stew jeffries who manages to do a more show by himself like for the love of god give him somebody he's talented enough to do it all on his own but it's a great time i mean obviously you got you got derringer it's it's a great city i mean and i've been here long enough to see just about everybody come and go and when i came here it was humble and fred who who I still love on their podcast. I mean, I could, I'm just a big fan of, I'm a radio geek. So why couldn't Humble and Fred get a terrestrial radio gig?

Because they certainly tried. Like, they couldn't get hired again. I think they could get a gig, but I think it's the problem that a lot of people in this market, there's only so many gigs. And if you're not willing to move, I don't think you're going to get that gig right here, right away. It's, it's, it's rare. Like when I left CHFI and ended up at Mix at the time before it became Virgin, I only stayed in the city because it was my oldest son's grad year. And I said to my wife, I'm like, you know what? You guys have followed me around the country for so many years. I'm going to, I'm going to do one for

the family and I'm just going to stay here. And i wrote for tv and i did show prep sites and and whatever i could do i acted and stuff like that but it was really important to me to stay in the city and i luckily got another gig but that's that's kind of rare okay just uh just because i i have maybe i'm biased at this point i'm sure i am uh because i happen to like them both personally but i think their show is is excellent and i know they tried to get hired just about anywhere in the gta i think you can i think you can put humbling fred in q107 no problem no problem but i'm gonna get rid of that derringer guy but i mean yeah i mean what do you do about a guy that's legendary and has huge ratings it's not like you're gonna make a change anytime soon i think if they wanted to i mean and i love kim mitchell i've i've spoken to

kim and i just as a fan of kim fan of Kim Mitchell and like the fact that he liked doing what I do was I was just so amazed and I think it shows great too but if you ever wanted to put Humble and Fred in drive at Q you could do that I mean I think there's a couple of spots for them I mean you could put you could have put them on boom they have an audience but it's just whether or not they're willing to you know it's somebody's willing to open up the open up the doors for them okay now back to uh billy so uh kwame doesn't last very long and billy comes in yeah so this is uh another chemistry thing so this is we're still on kiss 92 yep just to reset here and now we have i guess the debut of the mad dog and billy show well actually it never really had a debut because

she got the job the first morning she was on with me because Cause she had done, she was doing weekends and doing swing. She went to the Grammys and did red carpet stuff, which became her sort of trademark, Millie's biz. And she came back with clips and we were playing the clips on the air and we just immediately had a chemistry. And one of the clips that, that really stuck out was she said to Donnie Osmond,

she said, what's your secret for looking so young? And Donnie tried to say, I drink Dick Clark's water. What he ended up saying was, I drink Dick water. Okay. So of course I looped that and we just played it all morning because I'm seven and we were just having a goof with it. And then when it was over, they called her upstairs

and they brought me in. They said, we want to give her the gig. And they did. They hired her that day. And then that run lasted about 11 years now there's a fake name for you billy holiday you know what i remember i remember having and i i shouldn't speak for other people i should let them tell their own stories you should speak for other people but we we had a julie adams uh condo we had a naming party we were all going to

a live to air that night and i remember that night everybody tossed around names for billy and so many of them were so dirty that you know they were poor names and those were names you would come up with. But was she already Billy? Like was that part already like I actually have to confess I never heard of Billy prior to the Mad Dog and Billy show. That's my confession.

I think she worked in Newmarket and she had done some TV as well so she did have you know and she went to Humber. I avoid those red carpet shows. That's probably the problem. Okay. So Mad Dog and Billie and it's Billie Holiday. And you guys just come up with this name as some kind of a party. Uh, you come up with the name Billie Holiday and it sticks. And it stuck. And that was, that was her name. And I'm, I think she probably still uses it. I have a feeling that target audience had no idea who Billie Holiday was. Yeah. You were pretty safe. You were, you were pretty safe. I probably could have called

myself Rick Dees and that audience. Wow. Wouldn't have noticed. That's right. That's right. They're a little younger than I am. Okay, so tell me about the Mad Dog and Billie show on Kiss 92. How does this go and what happens there? That was, you know, it was really successful. You know, we

had great marketing behind us and we had really good numbers. We had really good chemistry. We had really good chemistry. We had a lot of fun. Roz Weston, who is Roz and Mocha now, was one of our head producers. Mocha, who actually is Mocha from Roz and Mocha, produced the show when Darren Jones and I were doing Mornings Together. So it's all kind of, you know, you can see how it's all sort of developed. But just the talent pool that came out of that station was great. So we stayed there until there was a period

where the Kiss decided to flip to that Jack format. Absolutely. That for some reason was successful everywhere else in the world except for Toronto. And at the time, I remember they moved us over to CHFI. Okay, so just for those who don't know, these are all Rogers properties, right? So CHFI and 92 are both owned by Rogers.

That's right. So you're essentially the same company. They're just like... They move us across the hall. Yeah, just like when they would... I remember witnessing Rick Hodge running from like the CFRB booth. He'd run over to the Boom booth.

Anyways, it was just kind of... Easy Rocks, sorry, not Boom. That's right, that's right. Easy Rock. And I saw, witnessed him running down the hall. That 19-person morning show on Easy Rock, not boom. That's right. That's right. And I saw a witness to him running down the hall. That 19-person morning show on Easy Rock for a while. That's right. That's right.

And now what's her name? The singer is all Scotiabank's voice. So you hear like 800 times during, yes, 800 times you'll hear her during like a Leafs game. They air Scotiabank crap incessantly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right, too. Yeah.

Anyways, that one ad that they have with the little girl who enthusiastically talks about the fifth season. I just want to shoot my television now when that comes on. Yeah, we're all getting used to the new hockey world, huh? It's interesting. I know you have to be careful. The SkyCam?

I like the RefCam. The RefCam is interesting because it's that first-person perspective. I know you have to be're now that's the thing about toronto and i can do this and you can't but i mean there's like three companies or whatever controlling everything yeah if you get one pissed at you you've just lost like half the opportunities right well you know what i mean i don't think i'm not worried about about rogers being pissed at me because you know i know where i came from and i know the incredible opportunities that they

afforded me so i would never i would never burn that bridge because they were just too good to me. So even if I didn't like something, it would just be my opinion. I think the people that I know there that I still know, like Julie Adam, I'm still in contact with, you know, Julie has done more for me than anybody has ever done in my career. And nobody could ever take that away from her. I'm here because of her. She took a chance on me, like this kid from Halifax. So. Right. So you're on CHFI. So that's the same. So they move you to CHFI. Oh, what a train wreck. Oh, such a train wreck.

But let's talk about Aaron Davis for a minute. So let me get the, am I correct in saying they fired Aaron Davis and brought in Mad Dog and Billy? See, not being privy to the actual conversation, all I know is they made a change. And, you know, I've since heard that had people to do it all over again, they might have done it differently. You know, Erin listens. I just want to warn you.

Yeah, I know. I know. And you know what? It's funny because Erin and I actually, after the fact, after I took essentially her job and then essentially she took her job back from me, our kids ended up going to the same high school together, Rosedale, and being on the same improv team together. You know, she had a baby this weekend.

Her daughter? Yes. Yeah. This weekend. Wow. Yeah. I follow her on Twitter, so I feel like I'm in the know here. But yeah, so Erin Davis became a grandmother this weekend wow yeah i follow her on twitter so i feel like i'm in the know here but yeah so so aaron davis became a grandmother this weekend but continue sorry so

yeah so um so basically they bring us over to chfi and i think the thinking at the time was that chfi was a little bit too adult contemporary so they were going to take a run at chum and billy and i were going to be the show to do that and this is the roger rick and maryland institution yeah exactly which you know as we all know is still strong as hell and 10 feet away from my studio. It turns out you don't need Roger, Rick, and Marilyn to keep that juggernaut going. Well, every year they say that somebody's going to be the new Roger Ashby, when truth be told, Roger Ashby is the new Roger Ashby year after year after year. So yeah, so we're on CHFI.

I think they're going to take a run after Chum. They quickly realize that they don't want to do that. I think they put their toe in the water and very quickly withdrew it. And at that point, Billy and I are kind of dangling and it's pretty evident that we're not a fit for their audience. Well, I remember, and these are not my,

I got to, you know, I'm not listening to these stations because I liked 102.1 at the time and I just, I liked a different sound than you heard on these sessions, okay? I feel like I should confess that here. But I remember, I've always observed, I like a sponge and I remember you weren't Mad Dog on CHFI, right?

This became Jay Michaels again. Yeah, they decided that Mad Dog would be too harsh for a quote unquote minivan mom type of audience. So they moved this to Jay, which was funny because the marketing at the time, what they ended up going with in the billboards was I was, I was platinum blonde and Billy was slightly platinum blonder. So we looked like, uh, we kind of looked like the Swedish brother and sister team. And you know, it was, you know, it was just, it was pretty evident

right out, right at the gate, it wasn't going to work. So we quickly came to the conclusion with, with management that we were going to, we were going to exit fairly quickly. And that was what they did. And they brought Aaron back and it was immediately successful. So I think they made the right move. And that's funny because, you know, sometimes it's just not the right fit. And you got to stand up and go, you know what? I agree. And I remember having that conversation with Julie saying,

I don't think I fit either. I think you're right. The music, it was too soon for me. You know, I'm a rock guy at heart. I like top 40 music as well, but I wasn't. and here's here's the rub mike yeah chfi now plays freaking def leppard and nickelback is that right so why the hell didn't i stay because at the time it was celine dion yeah and it was butterfly kisses oh yeah and i wanted to poke my own eyes out yeah that's a horrible song butterfly kiss i remember we had kevin had Kevin Smith on, and Kevin Smith came on, and we booked him.

And he came on, and Celine Dion was in his headphones, and he turned his headphones on, and he's like, Oh, this music sucks, dude. And I saw it registered in his head where he was, and he just hated it. And my boss afterwards said, Jay, why did you book him? And I said, Well, I don't know if you've noticed, but people aren't exactly clamoring to get on the Mad Dog and Billy show on CHF5. So that was another one of the signs where it was like probably not working so well. You make a good, you know, sometimes you're right.

It's no fault of the talent. Sometimes the fit's not right. Like, and I don't mean to bring them up again, except Humble and Fred tell a similar story about 99.9 back when it was Mix 99.9 that they left the chorus world for this wonderful new venture and it just didn't fit.

It never fit. And they were leaving AM to get back on FM, so it made perfect sense. Sure, and I guess they got a big, nice guaranteed contract. Which is never bad. Which seduced them, and then it just didn't work. And I think Fred didn't last very long at all. And you guys on 90,

I remember it as like an observer at the time. I remember it as not so much like firing you guys as much as we made a mistake of aaron davis this is the perception i think is that it was like okay we thought aaron davis maybe our audience misses her a lot like maybe this change is not our audience hates it and it's not helping and maybe we need to undo that mistake and then when i talked to Erin about this, she talked about the letter-writing campaign and the support she got because she started her blog

and all these things at erindavis.com. And I would say it's more of like they needed to undo that mistake more than get rid of this Jay Michaels and Billy disaster. Well, I mean, it's exactly what they ended up doing, and it worked out great for everybody. I mean, no greater compliment. But I know your terminology there, and I watched how you word ended up doing and it worked out great for everybody i mean no greater compliment but i know your terminology there and i watched how you worded it and it was like we had a conversation decided what's for us but is that sort of like being fired um i i think overtures were made towards me that if i had wanted to stay that

maybe we could have tried to build something um and i think maybe had i have pursued it i would have been able to stay maybe i don't know if that would have meant having a conversation with Aaron or that might have been working with someone else. Well, I know Aaron insisted when she took the deal from, she insisted that Coop come with her. Of course. And he had a contract to finish or something. Well, that would have made perfect sense because it was with Cooper that,

you know, she found that great support over at Easy Rock. And it makes the perfect, and Mike Cooper is a huge talent and has been forever. So it makes perfect sense to bring him over. I used to hear him on 680 CFTR. Exactly. Come on. Exactly.

I've heard killer stories about Mike Cooper and I like listening to him now, so that makes perfect sense that she brought him over. But I mean, it was pretty evident to me that my heart wasn't in it. If you're having a conversation that's like, well, I'm not quite sure, well, then you're not.

Right. You need to be 100% passionate about what you're doing or it's just not going to work. So is this one of those deals where you get paid to sit at home or were you, uh, sitting at home? Yeah. We call it being on the beach. Okay. So how long was this beach? I had a year, I had a year long non-compete. Okay. So I could have worked in another market and sort of double dipped or made arrangements with them to not get salary. But essentially I worked for a year and I was paid to not work for a year. So that was when I wrote and actually I did a lot of stuff for free.

I ended up still getting up at 5am every day and writing a free prep sheet that I would just send out to jocks. Just like, here's my jokes. I need an outlet. Just to keep sharp. Just to work the muscle, right?

Exactly. And it, and it really, it really is a muscle. And I really, I really enjoy the craft, the craft of radio. Like I got my own,

I got my own board. I really enjoy the production sound. I like levels. I like all that geeky stuff that you hear behind the scenes. The stuff that I call it, the stuff that nobody notices in the real world. That's the fun stuff, right? I'm noticing that. My little amateur podcast here is that I used...

It's not... Doing the talking is sort of okay and it's fun and I like talking to people like you, but it's actually like running the boards here and like the levels and bringing in the music and all the kind of- Riding the faders. That's the fun stuff. You can ride the music up and down a little bit. Yeah, you know, like, yeah, like-

Pot it back up. Yeah, like that's the stuff that's fun, right? It's fun. That's why I think podcasting is so great because it's open the door. So you do your own op stuff now still? Yeah, I've opped my boards since day one. Wow.

So I run everything, the phone calls, the sound effects, the microphones, absolutely everything. So you don't have like an Andy Wilson or whatever? I do. So what does Andy do? Andy Wilson is my right hand guy. He stands behind me and if I am talking and I'll need something that I don't have queued

up, he's like another set of hands. So he'll pull something up for me as well. So he essentially does everything that I do, but he just also does the exact same thing. So it's like having two guys on the board. I run the main sort of board and Andy's like running back up to make sure I don't, you know, put it back in auto from manual. Yeah, I know Andy's a good guy.

The, after this beach stay, this paid non-compete deal, how does the deal at 99.9 come about? Well, that was a series of conversations. You know, you end up having, it was with Gary Slate at the time when Gary owned the place. So you ended up having a number of conversations. And I still remember the first one. I had just bought a cottage on the East Coast, which is going to be our sort of, you know, I call it the house that Rogers bought. house that Rogers bought. It's La Casa, was it Las Brisas?

Las Rogers. The cottage that Rogers bought. And it's down on the beach on the ocean in Atlantic Canada. And I flew down there and I was there a day and I got a call from Pat Holliday who was the GM at the time. He said, Gary wants to talk to you. I said, well, dude, I just got down here with my family. I literally just got here. He's like, well, Gary wants to talk to you.

And I flew back on a Friday. I met with Gary on the Monday and I'm pretty sure Gary just wanted me to meet his daughters because we spent 15 minutes in his backyard. And then he said, okay, have a good one. And he sent me on my way. And that was the first of, and anybody that's ever worked with Gary will tell you this, the first of a number of many strange conversations with Gary Slate, who is what you'd expect from a billionaire. Eccentric, marches to the first of a number of many strange conversations with Gary Slate, who is what you'd expect from a billionaire. Eccentric, marches to the beat of his own drummer, and really makes his own decisions based on whatever his whims are. And I mean, he's like a Richard Branson type guy.

How do you fault that? You know, eccentric is just a rich person's word for crazy. Hey, if you can afford it. Yeah, yeah. If you can afford it, why not? You know what I mean? The same guy with my cash flow is crazy. Yes.

Yes. Disturbed. All right. So eccentric Gary Slate meets a few for 15 minutes. Do you think that was like, is that a chemistry test of some sort? Like he needed to like validate? I honestly think that with Gary,

it was, you know, you had to sort of ingrain yourself into his life. And we did that over the year or so. We would have meetings with him every couple of months. And then I think he was watching, you know, Humble and Fred and then just Humble with um and i think it was kim gettys who was no i forget who he was working with at the time judy bloom judy bloom yeah judy and um the name bloom or it's close croon judy croon that's it judy bloom is an author that's right that's right judy bloom

is um yeah yeah she's the other are you there god is lover is there god it's me murder and judy bloom yeah okay yeah of course it's nice marty and judy bloom yeah okay yeah of course nice to know we read our our uh our young girls lit you know i would know i see i was a gordon corman man i don't know where you're a little older than me but not a much older than me but i don't know if you uh gordon corman i remember as a young man uh his bruno and boots series okay this can't be happening at mcdonald hall and all these like i just chew these up like candies while like the girls were in the other one was the super fudge and the tales of a fourth grade nothing. That's right. Is that Judy

Bloom? Or am I confusing Judy Bloom with... I'm not sure. I think this is where somebody on the ball would Google it. This is what they call a tangent. This is where Andy Wilson would be going, bring it back. No, you see, that's the fun of the podcast. No sponsor, no boss. You can tangent as much as you want. Nobody gives a shit. That's kind

of awesome. So what was the original question the original question was um so humble yeah so fred's fired so now it's the humble howard show yeah and he's doing stuff with whatever judy croon or whatever and uh at some point i guess they decide they're gonna fire howard as well yeah and make a change and bring in mad dog Dog and Billy. Yep. So how does... I know he always talks about he knew he was... He walked the hallway saying, dead man walking, that he smelled it coming. That's humble.

Dead man walking. So he knows it's coming. My friend Bingo Bob got caught in the crosshairs too, as I recall. Yeah. Who's that proud? Yeah, he's that proud. He's got...

That's at Dundas too. That's the... Enevav? Enevav? What's that proud he's it's got a run of the show too that's the uh enovol enovol what's that evanov right right right right right right right so uh okay so we're in oh six now i believe if my man because this is where i actually meet humble six seven or eight six yeah so i think it's six because oh five is when fred gets fired and then oh six howard gets fired So how is it? Howard just goes on vacation and is told not to come back. And then you guys come in right away.

Do you remember how this went down? That's exactly how it works. One show is done on the Friday. Usually it's over a vacation. And one show is told on a Friday or a Thursday. And then the new show starts the following Tuesday after the long weekend. They always do that because the fans don't know if it's a vacation or not. And they never know when. At some point, it goes it goes hmm that's an awful long vacation and at some point

they go to google and it's so rare it's so rare to be able to say goodbye which they did they did let us do it only andy berry gets to do that come on yeah exactly if you're like a guy that's doing it on your own yeah you're allowed to do it but but most times it's like you know we've made the decision we've made the call and it's it's really uh out of your hands but billy and i got to say goodbye at chfi oh did you okay so um so you got to say goodbye and then aaron davis comes back and then you go on your little paid vacation or whatever and then gary slates kind of doing his thing and he decides to bring you guys back so howard's fired now mad dog and billy come in but i think that's to sort of capitalize on that top 40 cachet that we had you know that younger audience

because if you look at humble and fred they had that they had that edge know, that younger audience. Because if you look at Humble and Fred, they had that edge audience. And Mix was, you know, at 99.9, I think for years, was just a rudderless boat. It never really knew what it wanted to be. And we played weird mixes of music, man. I remember actually saying on the air, I can't believe we play this stuff, and getting hotlined by our PD saying,

you can't complain about the music on the air. You're just not allowed to. But I mean, it was dreck. It was drudge. It was three doors down into Matchbox 20, into, you know, to a Tom Cochran ballad. Yeah, but it was bad

jackish. It was the worst of the 90s and the early 2000s altogether. It was terrible. Yeah, I didn't even, I wouldn't follow Hum and fred there i didn't i remember hating the music so much we hated the music too and you know what it didn't really get better until they went to virgin i think and they sort of got the top 40 hat on okay so you're now this is okay so the branding wise this is mix 99.9 i guess that's what they're

calling it and then uh you're there and things are progressing and at some point yeah they rebrand speaking of richard branson I guess they licensed this Virgin. I guess that's a Branson property that you're licensed. Yes, exactly. It's like buying an Esso. Yeah, yeah. Or, yeah. Yeah, it's almost like you buy, I guess, the imaging and the name and the graphics almost.

Basically, the marketing is licensed. It's like owning a cash-for-money store. Yeah, yeah. You get a giant guy that's in foam and you put him outside of the radio station. But the virgin brand is one of those brands like i mean if you go through europe there's you know there's there's uh i think there's smirnoff radio there's like all the big names have sort of radio companies behind them so the virgin thing at the time was seen as you know the richard branson the virgin mobile virgin airlines so it also had a bit of a european

flavor to it and definitely european for people that know when. So it also had a bit of a European flavor to it. Definitely European. For people that know, when we launched, it really had a European flavor to it. Our imaging was European. We had some accents. Everybody had show intros. Oh, yeah, I think the girl would be like a British chick. Virgin right here.

Right. I love that. I thought that was cool. Okay, and musically, did things just become more dancey? Not dancey, but like... It immediately became top 40. Top 40. And this is like Rihanna, Lady Gaga type land, right?

Yeah. And then it seems like, I remember having, I was having lunch with Rob Farina, who's the guy that put Roger, Rick, and Marilyn together on Chum, and then came to work with us. Okay.

I was having lunch with him, and I was driving home, and 680 News was announcing that Kiss 92 was coming back instead of jack fm so it was shortly thereafter that we had another top 40 in town which was the original kiss 92 was coming back okay cool so mad dog and billy doing mornings on the new 92 no we're on virgin virgin you know i'm sorry yeah we're on virgin and you need a you need like even i'm getting confused now so we're course, we're on Virgin.

You just, yeah, Richard Branson, you license the Virgin moniker, and you start playing more like top 40, basically. Definitely top 40. Which is where you are today, right? Yeah, exactly. It's exactly where we are. My daughter loves that station. She has two stations, though.

She likes 92.5 and 99.9. These are the two she toggles. Which makes a lot of sense. It's so interesting, too, because this is an interesting market because the rock audience is on cue and on edge. And there's really nowhere else to go. But the top 40 audience is so fragmented

between KISS and Virgin and Z103.5 and Flow 93.5 and Proud FM to a certain degree. There's just so many top 40 stations. You've just made the 88.1 people very sad, though. And 88.1, which I think had a really strong launch. I think they had a really strong launch.

I know we do tangents, and that's the whole point here, but they had such a good pre-launch that I actually sensed in my little circle that the launch was disappointing because of how awesome the pre-launch was. Right. And then, of course, the pre-launch had no ads, okay? So I listen to a lot of CBC Radio 1, and the best part is there's no ads.

The ads drive me crazy. But that's the nature of commercial radio, right? And they pre-launched with no ads, and then, of course, they changed things up when they actually launched. Well, so often big launches for radio stations are kind of like dating a stripper. Like the first week is amazing. And then after about a week, you start to see her without makeup and she's starting to fart.

And you're like, oh, this is real. Oh, this is real now. Now this is becoming real. And that's sort of what happened with Indie 88. At the end of the day, people are like, well, we have to play hits because people know the music. And if they don't know the music,

they'll tune out because they feel stupid. You know, this is, I get people remind me that, you know. You know, people remind me that if you want to get an audience, you've got to carve out of the existing big players and stuff. But I don't know why 88.1, we digress, but I don't know why 88.1 is playing so much like Lorde and Sam Smith and stuff. These are songs that I hear my daughter's two stations. You guys are playing them every half an hour. I'm more surprised when I listen to 88.1 and I'm hearing,

what's the frequency, Kenneth? Oh, yeah. You know, I'm sort of that. They do a little random stuff like that. The random REM and stuff like that. I mean, I don't really get it. I do like the fact that Edge has brought back Spirit of Radio Sundays. I love Spirit of Radio Sundays.

I really enjoy that. I mean, I love hearing 12 inches of Jesus and the Mary Chain and the church and early cult and stuff like that. That's my wheelhouse. I'm with you. I'm with you. I love Spirit of Radio Sundays. Yeah. yeah in fact i have a theory that that's what you do you bring humble and fred to just do sundays so you basically brand sundays become like cfny whatever cfny radio sundays humble and fred can fold into there i think i think what the edge did though i'm totally with you and i totally get that but i think what the edge did was they made a concerted effort to say okay we have an image issue at this point so what

we're going to do is we're going to make this we're going to get back to basics which is cfny and the music and i think that's really where they sort of put so much emphasis on because i think i think the edge at its worst was a 90s bad hit music station you know what i mean you were hearing the same green day and blink and some 41 right 90s hit records over and. You know what I mean? You were hearing the same Green Day and Blink and Sum 41, 90s hit records over and over and over again. And I think it's kind of like they did with Q107 where they finally stopped playing You Shook Me All Night Long 35 times a week.

And there's other songs besides Don't Look Back by Boston or More Than a Feeling by Boston. Or if I hear Sweet Home Alabama one more time. I know as a DJ how repetitive radio stations get but as a listener I was so happy when they opened up the playing field on Q107 and started playing you know Foo Fighters and stuff you could really tell the chorus did a smart job of rebranding those two stations and each finding their own yard to play in because at the same time they're both in that rock niche but they're not crossing each other's paths

but they're not also becoming you know hit music stations which they shouldn't be you got to be deep if you're going to be alternative you got to be deep if you're rock or else you're just playing you're just a hit music station i actually have a i have a question i have to address a very important question right now before i get back kind of have a question then i have a question that ties in with uh edge 102 but the first question i have is how long was was Mad Dog, before, at some point, Billie departs. Yes. So how long is Billie on Virgin?

She was on Virgin until 2010, I want to, what is it, 2014 now? Yeah. I've been with Mora now for three years, I think, so 2010, 2011. So I have to ask you straight out. Why was Billy fired? I think it's kind of very similarly to whenever you make a change on a show like they did with Humble when they when they let Fred go. It was that they wanted to evolve the show and they didn't feel that that one part of it fit the new image of what they wanted to do. And, you know, I again, I cautionary cautionarily say this, I don't want to give anybody else's story. I think it's, you know, I think it's a question best asked of Billy,

but I think at the time that she left, I think she had lost her love for it. I don't think she was jumping out of bed every day to rush over to the radio station to put, put on the best show she possibly could. I think she was kind of done with it. And I think she was dealing with, with a bunch of shit in her own life. Like many of us have had to do. And I think that was more important. She just had her daughter and I think she wanted to focus on that a little bit. And when she was given that opportunity to maybe step away for a while, I think, I don't think that she fought it too hard. So I think it was a pretty, it was a pretty easy decision in retrospect to have made. Who initiated this change? Because this is a significant change considering there's a Mad Dog and Billy brand at this point because it's been many years.

Yeah. Like a decade or so. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Mad Dog and Billy suddenly becoming Mad Dog and Mora. Like a lot of people raise their eyebrows and wonder like, okay, is this management making a change or does Mad Dog go to management and say we need to make a change? Well, you know what? At the end of the day, it's always management that has the final decision. And the way it was presented to me was, you guys, your numbers haven't, they're not where we want them to be.

And my contract was up. So they said, here's the new deal. Take it or leave it. And I said, I'm going to leave it. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to quit. I'm going to go somewhere else. And they said, well, why do you want to go? And I said, well, you know, I think Billy and I have gone as far as we can go. I don't think that we're growing and shows need to grow or else they're done. And for shows to grow, both people have to be 100% invested. And at that point, I don't, I don't think Billy and I were really, we didn't have the chemistry that we once had. I think we'd sort of grown apart. And what I said to them was, you know,

in its current incarnation, this show is not going to grow. I said, so I'm giving you back your contract and I'm going to go. And now's the time I'm going to take my family and we're going to either go across town or across the country, or I was talking to people in the States and we're going to make a fresh start. So they took all that away. And then they said, you know, we're thinking about rebranding this. What do you think of these different scenarios? And I said, well, I would be willing to have a conversation at that point. And that's when they decided that, that they wanted to sort of blow it up and rebuild it. Okay.

That's, uh, I'm going to get an award for segue here because, uh, I had Todd Shapiro on this show and he talked about, basically he was a part of the Deaniro on the show. Yeah. And he talked about, basically, he was a part of the Dean Blundell show. And then one day he was told he's no longer a part of the Dean Blundell show. And he and Dean haven't talked since. And I'm just curious, you and Billie Holiday,

have you spoken since? We've spoken once. My son, a few years ago, had a stroke. He's 26 now. Actually, I'm definitely going to address this because I have read that Neutronal Star article and I have some. So yeah, the day that my son had a stroke,

she sent me a text to say, hey, I'm really sorry. I hope everything's okay with your family. And that's really the only conversation that we've had. And I get it. I mean, we really have no reason to talk i mean she was let go and i stayed but do you think she blames you i don't think so i think if she did that would be a very valid emotion to have i think if i was on the other end of it i might blame her a little bit too but i think if if she really examined it i think she would know that

she wasn't meant to be there anymore anyways i don't think that her heart was in it okay and that's not fair i don't need to put you in the hot seat here no no you know i told you when i but if i didn't ask that question it's like what the hell dude i made a conscious decision you know i've made a bunch of changes in my life recently i got sober a few years ago i've been telling a lot of truth and the number one truth i want to be in my life is i want to be 100% transparent. So with all of that being said about Billie, two things. Number one, it's just my opinion. And number two, she is easily, easily the most talented female broadcaster in the country. She easily has one of the greatest radio voices I have ever heard. And I think it's a shame that she's not doing more with it.

And I think one of the reasons that she's not is she's kind of stuck in Toronto. And I think if she was willing to go somewhere else, she could build just about anything she wanted to, because when that girl's on her game, she's a force to be reckoned with. And she was one of the few people that really could call me on my shit on the air and, and make it work.

And it's not easy to do to, to shut a guy down, but she was really good at that. And she was good at shutting down Steve Anthony. She was good at shutting down Planet Mori. She was good at shutting down Roz. She's a talent. So I would never ever in a million years take that away from her. I just think where she was in her life

at that time... It was time for change. It was time for change. And I hope that she is well. And you know what? Everybody says to me, and you're probably going to get to it, when she started working on Dean's show, it was like, dude, are you pissed? It was like, no. Well, this is good.

I'm glad you brought this up. I'm thrilled for her. Well, here, I'm glad you brought it up because before Billy, because you're right, I do want to talk about the fact she shows up at the Dean Blundell show. Basically, I'm Todd Shapiro's old chief.

So it all comes full circle. But let's be honest here. Dean Blundell said some awful stuff about you. Oh, gotcha. Absolutely. First of all, I don't know how much you listen, but I'm not a Dean fan. I don't like a show.

But him personally, I have friends who have issues with him. Right. And for some reason, I actually did at some point, I did say, do you want to come on this podcast? Because it would be amazing to have this conversation. Sure. It's the shit he tosses around. Like he trashed Humble and Fred

and some things like that. And he politely declined. So he's not coming on. But now that I have you here, what the hell is the deal with why did Blundell have this beef with you?

Like what was his issue? And how did you feel about that? I don't even think it's a beef. I would hope. It sounded like a beef though. It sounded like did he accuse you of stealing from him?

Oh, God, yeah, absolutely. Like, that was probably the least of things. I mean, it's pretty hilarious when you really get down to it because it's really a style thing when you get down to it. It's funny. I think it all stems from

Todd used to date a girl that I'm friends with, Jessica Baker. Well, Todd used to date half the eligible woman in Toronto. Todd used to date A through Q in the Toronto telephone. But Jessica Baker, who did Traffic

on the Humble and French show back in the day. So I have Todd over to my house. We used to do a thing called Weaselpalooza in Toronto where you go to all the bars with all the industry people. And I have Todd over to my house

with Jessica for drinks. And we're all hanging out. And Dean finds out that Todd's been at my house. So he attacks him on the air. And what are you doing at the competition's house? And you're such a dick. And dick and great, great radio. So I think it kind of all stemmed from there. Like, like I said, I mean, I know it sounds like a beef and I've only ever met

Dean once. I would hope at the end of the day that someone's not going to devote enough energy considering that we work in the entertainment industry to actually dislike someone that much. If you, I'm a fan, like if you manufacture, by the way, do you want, a water do you want to no no i'm good i'm good i gotta i gotta diet coke here it's just i've already been on for four or five hours of course of course but getting back to my point yeah yeah i think for i think for dean it was a style thing i think dean needed somebody to attack much like much like howard stern did in every market he had he had somebody that was a d bag and someone he was going to drive out of town and now that's who i was for dean and and i loved it it was awesome for me did you reciprocate no it's a one-sided no you know what i mean it's

it's somebody somebody once said to me you know you can never never engage in a fight you can't win where there's not an upside for you it was like people used to always attack roger roger ashby or roger uh rick and maryland but they would never fight back and people would say well it's classy well it's like well why would they ever why would they ever engage in a fight like that the analogy i like is like like if you wrestle in the mud with a pig you both get dirty except the pig likes it right like that's the best the other thing too was i i gained so much from from dean bashing me that it made no sense to engage because you know the great thing about it is because our formats were so different is,

is Dean would say, you know, he's, he's such a D bag and he's stealing my material, which is, which is laughable because we all have the same material. We all have the same source. We all have the same show prep services. We all have the same, you know, producers, we all have the same newspapers and TV shows. So we're usually topics are going to overlap. So that's going to happen. Sorry to burst the bubble. Nobody's stealing each other's.

There's nobody sitting in a room, listening to somebody else's show, running into a studio going, we need to do dial a date. That just doesn't happen. That's just ridiculous. So I would love the Dean would bash me because my phones would light up and people saying, oh, Dean's shitting all over you on the edge and you're such an asshole. And I was like, I would just tape that. And then invariably I would get emails from girls who would say, I just thought it was mean what he would do. And I came over and listened to you and you know what, I think you're nice and I like your show and they would stay. So he'd send some more. So I would get more Twitter followers, get more likes on Facebook. And I still have people to me that say to me

today, I came over to you because of the edge. So actually I'm kind of hoping he comes back sometime soon and starts it up all over again. But like I said at the beginning, Mike, I would hope that he doesn't actually dislike anybody that much that he would want to. Because I get along with everybody in my industry. You seem a very nice guy. We're in the entertainment business. I mean, really, we're in the entertainment business. This is what we do.

We're hyper-realistic versions of ourselves on on the air that's all we really are and dean's a dean's a dad yeah and dean's you know he used to be married and he's a human being so i would hope you know he's not going home and and having you know angsty conversations with himself and drinking jack and being angry at the world i would hope that you know he's hanging out with his kids and plotting his next move but do you feel do you think dean blundell is a happy guy? I know you can only speak the way you kind of observe and you don't sit down and have long chats with him or whatever. I don't know. His persona, I know that a lot of people have a persona on the air and then the switch gets turned off and then they're someone else.

Yeah. Like this is common. Yeah. And it's okay to have a kind of, it's fine if he wants to have some kind of a bully persona, like a curmudgeonly bully persona or whatever, and then the mic goes off and then he's a decent guy. I would hope

from the limited listening that I've done, because, you know, admittedly, I would listen to the show. I like some of the stuff that they used to do. I liked him and Todd.

I thought they had great chemistry. And the Dean Blundell that did interviews, I was a fan of that guy. I think that guy did great interviews, and I still think

he does do great interviews. I would hope that that's more his personality in real life. I think he's probably a smart guy and a funny guy. And I would hope that it's much like Stern on, on satellite now, love his interviews, love his conversations with Robin, not a big fan of the Sibian, not a big fan of the, oh yeah, that stuff. You're right. All the gross stuff, the scatological stuff. I could do it. He has Bill Murray on last week and it's an amazing chat. Exactly. And I would hope that that's sort of Dean's real life persona i mean i would hope that the friends that he has are good friends i can only speak i can only speak for myself and you know i've had times

where i wasn't a happy guy and i've had times where i didn't like myself very much and but you don't you don't take it out on the people you work with on uh at the station i have i have over the years absolutely i mean i've battled some demons before and i've come in and not not a great mind space and i've thrown headphones and i've sworn to producers and i've been mean to people and you know what i've i've had to you know make some phone calls and make some apologies and if i haven't got to you yet and you're listening right now i apologize for being a dick but whether or not dean is a happy guy i honestly don't know i just wish him happiness i mean i have you ever met a man more happy with himself and comfortable in his own skin

than todd shapiro yeah i know he's a happy guy you know so i i would hope that you know that i would hope that dean wouldn't be able to work with a guy like that for so many years without them having some common ground they must have shared some laughs together he can't be that angry all the time nobody could be really maybe i know too much and maybe i should end it there i think i know too much okay i don't think well if he's not a happy guy i do wish him happiness eventually because like i said the guy's a dad and he's got kids and i mean that's over before you know it like my kids are grown and you know being in this industry i missed um every single first day of school except for one i was home for grade 12 and my other son's like grade 10 or grade 9 and that's i wouldn't trade that

for the world right now that's that's the shit grade nine. And that's, I wouldn't trade that for the world. Right now. And that's, that's the shit that's important. Absolutely. It's the most important stuff. And you're like, cause you know what? All this,

all this other stuff. And I've heard humble say it on his podcast, talking to Dean specifically saying, you know what, bro, for everybody, this all goes away. And it really does.

And the only thing you got left at the end of the day is your personal relationships and your family and the few friends. Cause, cause audiences are fickle by nature and that's that's your relationship with them they can they can turn you off anytime they want to so as intensely personal as that relationship can be when the cord's pulled we all find that out you no longer you no longer have that right it's over uh so yeah so how does it feel after this feud or what i don't know what you want to call it but whatever this one-sided one-sided one-sided angsty relationship one-sided angsty relationship with dean blendell at some and this part really bugged me as just an observer of the industry if you will that i remember when uh dean blendell was trashing you he was trashing

billy and some of the quotes and i didn't hear them live but people because some people see toronto mike as this radio observer right better words well i think because you comment you comment a lot on right sure and i especially 102.1 because that was the station i listened to yep and i would get emails from people telling me what dean just said about billy and i mean stuff like just horrible things about her how she looks and things just terrible personal attacks personal mean attacks like just mean uh and so when billy came on the show it just seemed i'm going to use a doug ford term it seemed disingenuous disingenuous well you know what at the end of the day billy's a mom and she's got a kid oh for sure you don't get a mortgage so if there's a job opportunity that presents itself you got you got to take it but then what is it like for from your perspective seeing all of a sudden now dean um she's perfect what a great co-host she is bringing her into the todd spot and like maybe i know i don't know how

much i can never remember how much of the todd dean thing is on the record so i try not to talk too much about it because i can't remember if i'm going to say something's off the record or whatever but there's not a happy split there it's an ugly split there and now she he brings in uh billy uh for the room you know and and just how was it from your perspective to hear billy kind of laughing at dean's jokes oh well it was it was pretty brief true that's true and i know people always say oh i never listen i never listen i tried to listen when i could and because i wanted to hear her and i wanted to hear her do well because i think everybody deserves you know well you must be at least curious right absolutely long time co-host

like I said the girl's a talent I think she could work with anybody right so why wouldn't she be able to work with Dean I don't think he used her to her full capabilities I think that I don't know if it was a territorial thing or he wasn't quite sure in what way to use her or they hadn't really thought about how she should relate to that

edge audience because you know I don't think that it was a bit weird right I don't think that audience you know, I don't think that's, it was a bit weird, right? Cause that edge audience doesn't really, I don't think that's the circle she travels in and the Mad Dog and Billy audience wasn't the circles that she traveled in. So, you know,

that wasn't the same either. So I don't think they really knew how they, how they wanted to use her. So I only heard a couple of times I heard her at the end of a, the end of a sign off on one show. And I thought, well, okay,

that's what it is. But when it all went down, I was actually in Jamaica with my wife. I had planned a surprise wedding because we get remarried every five years and get out of here yeah it's a thing with my wife and I that's cool and you know what I we had been through a rough road and a rough patch and right you know and she's you know she's my best friend and she stuck with me for so long so I was actually in Jamaica doing this amazing thing that I was so happy about and all of a sudden my twitter was blowing up, right? Hey, you fucking douchebag. Billy's on the air with Todd and blah, blah, blah. You're a jerk off and a piece of shit. And I was just like, well, this is interesting.

Yeah. And then I was reading and I was like, well, it was, it was, it was billed as the co-host showdown or something like that. Some kind of competition. Which I read and went, well, that's, they're bringing her on. Of course. Why would you put anybody else on but her? And I remember, I remember looking at it and going, good for her man like good luck like i hope this is great and i shot my phone off and i and i just let it but it was it was kind of good for me because i didn't have to be in the market privy to it and all my friends in the industry like oh dude what do you think what do you think what i think is awesome if it works out good for her there's only so many gigs great because you can't you can't not work with someone and then not wish them well in

something else that they do. That wouldn't be fair. It's like, well, I don't want her, so you can't have her. If anything, I wanted it to be huge. And then when it blew up again, I was like, ah, man. That was kind of crazy time to be on the radio. She should be able to catch a break. Yeah, that was a crazy time. That was nuts.

There hasn't been that much focus on. And you know what? Say what you want about Dean. Man, the guy commands a huge audience and he gets a lot of ink and I would be lying if I didn't say I would love just as much ink and just as much audience. I think we all crave that and that's the one thing that no matter what you say about Dean

and no matter how much people don't like the guy or say that he's not a good person, you can't argue with numbers. He does very well in that demographic. Absolutely. The young men listen to the Dean Blundell show. A lot of young men. Yeah.

So my guess was, as a guy who doesn't, not on the know, my guess was they were going to do like a little suspension and then bring them back in the new year. Like it just seemed like they, I don't know, suspend them for a bit,

make their point and then bring them back. Just because I saw that he was essentially printing money for this company he works for. Yeah. And it's very difficult to say goodbye to. Just because I saw that he was essentially printing money for this company he works for. And it's very difficult to say goodbye to money. Yeah, I mean, do you want to know my opinion? Yeah, I know. I'm very curious. As a guy that's been suspended a few times

for opening his mouth, and for then again opening their mouth, and then again doing what they weren't supposed to do, everybody's got a limit where it becomes that you're more trouble than you're worth. Like a liability. That you're a liability. And you can only say, you know,

you can only say fuck you to the powers that be for so long before they say, well, we clearly have more power than you, so we're going to take it away. And like I said earlier, like Humble said, everybody's microphone is taken away from them eventually. And they decided at the time that it was probably worth losing a few clients and then rebranding and re-imaging and bringing in a show that they could not only – control is not the word I'm looking for – but have a harmonious relationship with.

Like you can't just be an island adrift behind your ratings wall. You can only do that for so long. There's only a few people that can really do that. So they look at the numbers and they look at what we're losing they look at the bad the bad press and you know i think what he was doing was a bit i don't think it was i don't think he's a homophobe at all any more than i'm a homophobe or you're a homophobe or anybody is in the in you know in the year 2014 i don't think that exists for evolved human beings and dean's that four nation has some yeah absolutely absolutely i will give you that but i think what Dean was doing was a bit, but I

think he had done that bit too many times. And I think that maybe he thought, you know, I can just keep doing it as long as I want because of what I have. Right. But I mean, did they want to take a hit when he left? Absolutely not. But are they willing to ride out that storm? They absolutely will. What do you think about the conspiracy theory

that Dean Blundell had a very large contract and this was an out for chorus? And I don't know, obviously, what anyone makes, except that a friend of mine in the industry who might know did tell me it was close to a million dollars a year. Well, if he was making close to a million dollars a year, he probably deserved more for the audience that he had. Well, they used to say when Howard Stern was making $15 million back in wherever he was before satellite days, they always said he was underpaid. They always would point to what he actually makes for the company with the ad revenues and say that his $15 million a year is underpaid for what he brought. So I'm not saying if you can get a million bucks, good for you. Absolutely.

Get as much as you can. How is being a DJ that makes a million dollars any different than being a leaf that makes a million two that scores five goals a year. Yeah. Or you mean David Clarkson, who's making much more than a million two. There you go. Exactly. Right. It's really, I always make the analogy between radio and sports because it's so similar. Like the salaries tend to be quasi public and it's completely talent based. And as long, and as long as you're putting up the numbers and making the revenue, you're there. And the second that you're not, you're gone. And it's not personal. What do you think about this theory that chorus,orus, maybe there was a clause in the contract and that the homophobic remarks and everything

gave Chorus an out to sort of terminate the contract? I only know my deal. And I think my deal is pretty standard, is that any company anywhere at any time can fire you pretty much for anything you say. But do they have to pay out the contract if they finally violate some clause? No, if you violate an, if they violate some clause? No, no.

If you violate an ethics code or a CRTC code and you're blatantly, you know, disparaging the radio station and, you know, the license of that said radio station, they can, they can fire you.

So it's possible that, like, for example, now it's the, I know they tried an experiment that failed with diamond and die on one or two, but so they start with, I guess,

they first, they start with Fred and then they bring in this diamond and die, which they then changed their mind, I guess, first they start with Fred, and then they bring in this diamond and die, which they then changed their mind, I guess, and went back to like a Fred and Mel thing. Is it possible that this is a much, much, much less expensive morning show?

I just don't think Fred and Mel are making a million bucks. I would think that Fred does really, really well doing Drive. I know that they hired him away from somewhere to come here. Edmonton, yeah. So my guess is that he's doing really well

with the possibility of doing really, really well because we're ratings-based. So if you're hitting the numbers, you can do really, really well with bonuses. My guess is that he's just fine, but it's more for him about... I also think it's a lifestyle choice for Fred. He's a new dad.

I think that if they wanted to pay him just as much to stay and drive and have a life, he probably would be fine with that as well. But my guess is they said, you know, this is a great opportunity for you. You have a built-in audience that loves you. We like your style. We think it's, um, it's maybe the future of our radio station. What do you think? I don't think you'd turn that down for less money. I know I wouldn't. I came here, I came to Toronto in 99 with a six month contract. I brought my whole family all across the country because I came here, I came to Toronto in 99 with a six month contract. I brought my whole family all across the country because, because it was an opportunity to work in Toronto. And if I had have been let go at the end of that six months, I would still be able to say

to my friends back home, dude, I worked in, yeah, you went for it. I was in the show. Yeah. I was like Bull Durham. I was in the show, new balls. They carry your bags from the hotel. That's right. New balls in practice that's right but so yeah so you know so back to your original question i'm sure he's doing just fine and i think everybody we're also ratings based that you can do you can do great so okay because there's been a couple of instances in the last since dean was let go by uh 102 edge 102 there's been a couple of instances where dean showed up on the radio like so he did i don't know if you call them trials or tryouts or whatever,

but he did have an extended tryout with the Fan 590. Yeah. Without a doubt. And there was another one with CFRB. Upstairs from me. Upstairs from you, right. And he didn't come down and say hi. I was like, dude, you're in the building.

We could have had a coffee. Right, right, right. So that tells you all you need to know. But these tryouts, is it fair to say these, people keep asking me where Dean is going to show up? They're absolutely tryouts. Of course they are. Why else would you do them?

You're doing this to see if there's chemistry. You know, it's the one thing you can't buy is chemistry. You got to put people together and you got to put different people together and you find out who jives. Well, because only because we talked about this marketplace, but you got, okay, I'm going to try to name a few but you got basically you got chorus where you already know what happened there and then you got rogers and that's where the fan 590 comes into play and i know i know he has connections to rogers so that's when i keep hearing about and then you got uh don't tell me don't tell me bell globe media astral what is that what is the proper bell right yeah which used to be astral which we absorbed right exactly we are the mother core that is Bell. Right. So you got Bell.

The big three, I guess, would be Bell, Rogers, and Chorus. So we know what happened to Chorus, and then he tried out with the other two. I just think it is a tough go if you only have these three big boys in this market. Well, the second they have a slot for Dean, they'll put him in it. I mean, it would make no sense not to. It's just whether or not, you know, it's like, well, you know what, Vancouver's about to blow up, we're going to blow up our morning show out there with the alternatives. Would you go there? And then it becomes all about my kids and about my, my ex and about my girlfriend and all that stuff

for, for whoever it is that's doing it or for Dean specifically. Um, so then you have to decide if you're willing to uproot your life and move. And I don't think, you know, that's something that Humble and Fred wanted to do. I know there was overtures for them to go to Kingston. Well, they did Kingston from here. Exactly. But they weren't going to go to Kingston. And I know that I've talked to Todd and he's like, yeah, dude, they want me to move on a market and my life is here.

So I get that. I mean, I don't think for me, I mean, I love Toronto and I have, but I still have roots in Nova Scotia. But I would just as easily go to a Vancouver. I would just as easily go to a Montreal is a huge radio market. I just love radio period. Right. I'll go anywhere and do it. I mean, I had an American agent for a while up until like a few months ago and my son was six. So that wasn't really in the cards, but I was, I wanted to go to New York. I wanted to go to, I wanted to go like my dream was to go to like San Diego or to go to, you know, maybe, maybe to LA, but probably not, but somewhere in California, because my wife has often said to me, you know, you are so blessed to do what you do. You can do it anywhere. Why aren't we somewhere

warm? Right. Like, uh, what's the cat's name? Uh, Bill Carroll. Yeah. Bill's done. I actually had the same agent as Bill. It's one of the reasons I got this guy was because, you know, he helped Bill get down to LA. I mean, they sound really happy there. Yeah. You know what we have, we have a talent that that's movableable but getting back to what you're talking about but putting teams together like when people say oh diamond and die didn't work diamond and die didn't work well so what it didn't work because it wasn't the right fit that doesn't mean that the next fit won't work and it doesn't mean that diamond and die and greg bahar bahar baharl greg baharl isn't a huge talent they're all hugely talented you got they just moved to

mil west speaking of moving exactly you know what you're not in this market if you're not talented period doesn't matter who you are what you do you if you're in tor. They're all hugely talented. You got, they just moved to Mel West to be going to move to Mel West. Exactly. You know what? You're not in this market if you're not talented, period. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do. If you're in Toronto, you're talented. So don't fault management for putting different

combinations together because you're going to find the one that quits, the one that fits. Like Maura, my co-host. Right, Maura, yeah. Maura Gerson.

We glossed over that, but Maura. Yeah, yeah. And you know what? I want to talk about her. I almost, you know, Maura's, I guess I mentioned this

to you in email, but Mora's housewarming was the same night as I was having dinner with my mom at the distillery district. That's right. And Howard said, They tried to get you to come. Yeah, Howard's like, come, his ex-girlfriend at the time,

and they were going to Mora's house, and he's, come, come, come. But my wife was super pregnant and tired, and then I'm like, I got to go home. Monica's tired. You know what? As you look back on that decision, It was the smart decision. Well, it was the only decision. It was the only decision. It was'm like, I got to go home. Monica's tired. You know what? As you look back on that decision, it was the smart decision.

Well, it was the only decision. It was the only decision. What am I going to say? No, we're going to Maura's to party, but you were at that party, but I digress.

So Maura, by the way, sounds like she's great. So Maura is another, like I said, an immensely talented girl. I have an Aunt Maura. Came here from Montreal.

She's a singer. She's an actress. She was just in that reboot of Robocop, which was in theaters last summer. She did Battle of the Blades an actress. She was just in that reboot of Robocop, which was in theaters last summer. She did Battle of the Blades. And she essentially was Billy's fill-in for vacations and Billy's understudy. So she really sort of grew into that role.

So when it came time to make a move, it was the only logical choice. And the chemistry's great. Chemistry's great. I mean, Maura, you know, as talented as Billy is, which she's immensely talented mora is is also immensely talented but what mora brings to the table is easily the best work ethic i have ever seen this is a girl that is over prepared for everything to the point of

i'll actually take her notes away from her sometimes and go this isn't about you being prepared this is about you and i just going on a journey riffing yeah yeah this about you. I'm going to take you down the road and I'm going to make sure you're safe at home when it's done. But until then, it's just, it's just you and me having this conversation. Sometimes those are the most fun journeys. So she really filled that niche on my show, which needed to be filled, which was someone that came ready to play every single day. And that had the same passion that I have to do this job, which, you know what? I tell the same story to all my friends all the time when they're like, what's it like working in Toronto? I'm like, well, I see the CN Tower on my way into my show

every single morning, and I get that same feeling in my gut on my way to work every day, and that has never left in like 15 years, and I don't think it ever will. I mean, I just, I'm so frigging blessed to be on the radio in Toronto, you know? I just, I get emotional. I get emotional thinking about it.

The numbers are never where they want them to be sure but the numbers are good enough for you to be working but they're never really as great this is a tough market to crack man you got you got you got shows that have been you know number one for 30 years like these heritage shows like roger rick and marilyn and even aaron davis in my demos my demos are females, like 18 to 34, and adults 18 to 34, we rank book after book. We flip-flop between third and fourth with KISS. So it goes CHFI and Chum, who flip-flop back and forth in their demos, and the 18 to 34 is with us, and then us and KISS. So it's really a top five flip around. Gotcha.

So it's certainly strong enough to stay working, but it's also not strong enough that you can ever take your foot off the gas, which is something that we do constantly. So that's something else that makes it exciting is I'm competing against guys that I used to produce on my show who are friends of mine who I love dearly, but I want to beat and vice versa.

How come they get television ads and I never see a match? Because it's bullshit. It's what it is. I see a lot of Roz and Boat guys. It's because Roz Weston is better looking. That's what it is. You know, my son's first ever Leaf game, Coca-Cola had a box. And so I'm like, yeah, I'm taking my son to his first Leaf game. Roz Weston was in the box with Coca-Cola.

Hopefully he wasn't standing in front of you. Yeah, he was tall guy. Because you couldn't see a thing. That's right. Roz is another guy. Did you know he interned with Howard Stern? You know, I did not know that. He's in his first's a i think there's something about him heating up a potato but but ross is another guy who's you know immensely talented who's mostly known from from et canada but he produced the

mad dog and billy show and he had some of the most inventive crazy ideas and then there was mocha who produced with me as well who started sort of djing on the side as well and then he went out to uh to work at the beat and sort of made his bones out there and then came back so to see these guys be as successful and as great at what they do that you know obviously we compete but i just i'm filled with joy when i see them tell bell to spend a little cash and get some maybe some tv ads for you well you know i guess i gotta work harder to get some although the tv ad that we have now with Ed Sheeran and Ariana Grande,

if you watch CP24 at all, if you watch CP24 at all, it's Ed Sheeran, Ariana Grande, and Jake from Headley. It's on probably every seven minutes, so I'll take that as a start,

but I do want to be in the commercials. That's what I'm saying because I didn't even notice that commercial, although I don't watch a lot of that, but I think I noticed

the Roz and Mocha one because they do something clever, I find, which is at the beginning of the ad, it says, press the volume up to skip this ad. Have you ever seen this ad? Ah, yes. So in the bottom right, it says, press volume up to skip ad.

And I remember the first time I saw it, I go, like, that's kind of clever, like, because someone, some idiot's going to press volume up and the tune's just going to be louder. Well, you know what's funny about advertising is Billy and I had a Subway campaign and we had the Roots

Billboard and Young Dundas and we had print and we had television and people still stop me now that recognize my face from the ads that I had on Rogers. And I would always bring this argument to Bell. It's like, you do know that people still recognize me by my face

by ads that I did in 2001. Yes, well, we don't really see right now. We're going to talk about the music, but it's about the logo. It's like, yeah, but if you market a morning show, you're going to give that morning show visibility and people see a face when they hear the voice. They don't want to market you because they own,

they don't own you. They own the brand or the, you know what I mean? Maybe. Yeah, yeah. Maybe. If I can see their... I'll keep fighting for it though. I keep pointing to the Razamoka commercials and going,

well, their numbers seem to be pretty good. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. Now, I'm going to just do a very sudden change of direction here. Sure. Because, and you've alluded to this during the chat, but I want to just ask you, basically,

ask you how Ashton is doing these days. My son is doing as well as he could, as can be expected. So just to let everybody know. So I have read that article in the Channel Star. But if you could just tell us what happened. About two and a half, almost three years ago now, my son had a stroke. He had something called an AVM on his brain, which is a genetic defect. And you're born with it.

And it essentially sits on your brain, ready to explode at some point during your life. And you don't know until it explodes, right? You don't know when it's going to go. And it's essentially, it's like a clot and blood can't really flow properly through it. And my son was at the gym working out with a trainer and he got sick and he went to the bathroom and he was having a stroke. And nobody helped him. And he was in the bathroom for about 90 minutes having a stroke before somebody finally got him an ambulance. And they didn't think he was going to make it.

And he almost didn't. He was in a coma for about a week. And then he was in Bridgepoint Rehabilitation Center for a few months. He learned how to walk, talk, eat, go to the bathroom all over again from a wheelchair. And now he's back to the point where he's back on auditions and acting again because he's a professional actor. Right. So when he had this stroke, he was in his 20s.

Yeah. He's 26 now. And yeah, he was an aspiring actor, as I read. But I recently followed him on Twitter. So the fact that he must be pleased to see that in this short a time, considering he had to learn everything again, right? Oh, yeah. And he's still walking around side the side plate of his head is still out like he has to get a prosthetic put in he's had because he's had seizures you have to be seizure free for a certain amount of time he's essentially epileptic now so what happened was my

son had a stroke he lost half of his vision he lost the left side and both of his eyes gone and that's not your eyes it's your brain so that part of your brain is gone. And he lost a lot of personality characteristics. He has a completely, it's like your son leaves at noon and comes back at supper, but it's a different kid. That's what happened. I have a completely different son now. So that's anything that, anybody that has someone in their life that's gone through a stroke,

that's common where the personality changes. And that's sort of what we've gone through with him. What's that like as a father? I'm trying to imagine. I have a 12-year-old and a 10-year-old and then the six-month-old you just met. And so obviously your son has a personality. Let's say he had a certain sense of humor or whatever. And essentially he has a new personality now

where maybe he won't find the same things funny. Yeah, exactly. Sense of humor completely different and you it's essentially and this was told to my wife at the hospital you know they said your son died today so you need to get to know your new son excuse me so you're you're mourning the loss of someone while you're getting to to know someone all over again so it's been you know incredibly hard but at the same time he's very inspiring because he's one of those people that just has a really, he's had like nine brain surgeries. I mean, I don't know anybody that's had one. And every time he goes in, he's

like, you know, thumbs up dad. And he's got a joke to tell. And brain surgeries are pretty major. They're pretty, they're a pretty big deal. So for anybody to have, you know, a couple, let alone as many as he's had, you know, I've often said to people, describe your son to me. And I'll say, and I say the same thing now after a stroke than I did before a stroke, which was, he's the kind of guy that I want to grow up to be. And I can't say enough about him. He's the kind of man that I admire. He's the kind of guy you wanted to be around. And while I think the stroke took away a little bit of his light, I think he's, I think he's finding it. I think he's finding it again. And I have an, I have another son too, who's, uh, who's actually in the NCAA, plays lacrosse down in West Virginia. So I have, that's big here in the Mimico area, the lacrosse. Lacrosse

is big. Lacrosse is big. So he's been down there. He's in his fourth year. He's in communications down there. So I have an actor, an actor son and a, and a lacrosse playing son who's trying to get into radio. Wow. Who wants to be a sports broadcaster? So so i mean and at the time it really it really sort of it shook my entire world of course you know i can't imagine like i said and uh it sounds like you were prepared to lose him like it sounds like we were you thought he might not survive this yeah well they told me they told me that he might not might not survive it or that he might not have any of his any of his facilities or he might not ever walk again, or, you know, he might be completely blind. It was, it was the whole gamut. And it was, you know, thanks to the, everybody at St. Mike's and their, their trauma ward there and everybody at Bridgepoint and their

therapy people and the people that we still talk to and all the, just the amazing team of doctors that's worked with him over the years. It's a, it's a real adjustment, man. You know what I mean? But at the same time, you know, I see what other parents go through and I'm like, well, how dare I, how dare I feel bad about myself? And, you know, he inspires me when I'm, I feel like my little world, my little world, my little world where I get to play make-believe for three hours a day and hopefully try and make people laugh and, you know, and, and be so fortunate where I am. It really puts my life under perspective where I'm like, yeah, dude, no, you're right. You're not not allowed to be you're not allowed to be down on yourself it's got to be yeah perspective wise like okay so Dean says something bad about me well like like what does that matter

in the realm of things yeah when you're dealing with things like yeah if at the end of the day my grandmother always used to say if if if someone's talking about you dear it means they're leaving someone else alone there you go that's actually that's right where's live by that's right yeah all right. I'm glad that he's... Thank you for asking, though. No, I was... He was actually just on an episode of Murdoch Mysteries. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, yeah. So, he's out and he's auditioning

and, you know, my son, when I got here, my son got me my first agent. That's my family. That's our relationship. We're a pretty tight unit. My wife, Sherry, my son, Dustin, and my son, Ashton are literally... Yeah, I follow you on Twitter. Literally my life. They, literally my life. Like they are literally my life. That's amazing.

That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. I know I've kept you longer than you probably expected. You've probably been talking for like eight hours now. No, you know what? I wanted to tell you,

my, my wife said, are you excited about doing this podcast with Mike? And I'm like, you know, it's going to be awesome. Like I'm not hopping and I don't have to decide what we're doing and I don't have to write the questions I get to talk about.

And I get to talk about radio, which I am. If anybody found any of this interesting, thank you if you tuned out a long time ago. It's because I'm such a radio geek. I normally aim for an hour. That's my goal. And then with you, it was going so well here. I'm at like an hour 18.

Oh, wow. Well, it flew by. Yeah, and I'm going to ask you quickly about Degrassi. Okay. Okay. So, yeah. Which time? Well, tell me. Okay. So, yeah. Which time? Well, tell me.

So this is next generation stuff, right? This is when... Right. Drake in the wheelchair and all that stuff. So who do you play on Degrassi? Is it yourself? Well, come on. I played a DJ.

Yeah, of course. It was actually... But Hugh Jeffries didn't want that role? Like you had to take him on for that? Well, as it kind of works out in the industry, you sort of end up getting to know people. so i think writers you know they're writing an episode and they might have the radio on and go well i'll just write mad dog and billy into this so they approached us to be djs at an 80s retro dance at degrassi okay yeah so this was pre

wheelchair too for aubrey graham hadn't been shot yet and he was he was at this 80s dance and i remember the final scene of of our dance was that his character dressed as Michael Jackson would do a spin and split and split his pants. Excuse me. And then go running out of the gym. So that's my last sort of memory of Drake. I actually ended up asking him about it on a red carpet at the Junos in Newfoundland. And, you know, he remembered doing the episode. But it was just he was one of those guys that you were so happy for that did so well for himself.

I mean, the guy was financing his own demos with his Degrassi money. No, I like him. I just find him likeable, maybe because of his Raptors affiliation, and he's a Toronto guy, and he's proud to be a Toronto guy. He wears his pride right on his sleeve,

which is amazing. I think we live in a time now where it's okay to like people, where it doesn't have to be cool to not like them. You know what I mean? And that's one of the things that i think that's starting to shift that i that i enjoy i actually ran into a woman up front of much music when i was leaving the studios to come here and i said i'm gonna talk to mike about this and she stopped me and she said i really enjoy your show because you guys are so positive all the time and i thought well is that

so hard is that so hard to do to make that much of an impact in someone's life that on their drive to work, they had a couple of laughs? Like it's not, it's really not rocket science and it's really not curing cancer. It's really just entertainment. Well, sure, they can always go to angry white man radio in the AM dial, but I think it's better to stick with it. Yeah, yeah, there's so many choices, right?

Wow, yeah, that's, yeah, angry white man radio. But, okay, very good. And the, I know, I mean, right? Wow, yeah. That's so, yeah, angry white man radio. But, okay, very good. And the, I know, I mean, it seems like, I think Stu Jeffries did a Degrassi cameo. Maybe I'm mixing them up, but maybe it was Howard. I can't remember, but. I'm trying to remember. I think, haven't we all done a?

You know what, I'm waiting. I don't know if they, I think they still do the show. I watched the original run. Yeah, me too. I was the same age as them. I was in love with Spike. Spike, yeah. And she came back for Next Generation and I

because Spike and Joey came back and Snake was the principal. So there was enough for, I would pop in once in a while because it's like you're seeing stuff. And I did another episode after that that was the season premiere where Snake directed. Okay. It was at Young Dundas Square. Stefan something?

Yeah, it was at Young Dundas Square. It was pretty fun. Cool. Anyway, Degrassi's an is an institution so that's awesome that's a nice badge to have on the resume that you're on that you're on degrassi yeah and that's uh i wanted to ask you about that and then the last thing before we close up here is i want to hear your thoughts on this mayoral race yeah in toronto so do you live in toronto i do i live in the beach okay i live in the beach i uh by q gardens i meet my my boss all the time. Oh, nice. There's a place, Java Juice on Queen Street.

Okay, yeah. And I bike there whenever he wants to hook up. It's a great part of town. Yeah, it is. I really like it. It's right on the water. It's really cool. Great place to bring up your kids.

It's like this on the east, except it's trendier, like nicer over there. Like here, it's got sketchy parts of Lakeshore here. But once you get to the beach there, I find that it becomes trendier. Oh, it gets sketchy in the beach. Oh, yeah. Go up a block. Go down a block. Okay.

It gets pretty sketchy. Good to know that it's not just the West End. Two doors down from me. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful area. So, like, what are your thoughts on the May... Because I, just to preface it, I think it's, A, far too long. Like, they've been going since january yeah you know i'm sorry but even i think you could do this in you know 28 days i'm

so sick of the debates and it's all the same stuff personally i cannot you talk about no room for hate or whatever i cannot stand these ford brothers right i just despise them at this point because i just i just want to hear your thoughts. Hopefully I didn't taint it by saying that, but if you're a big Ford guy, don't be ashamed to say it. No, not at all. Tell me what you think of the mayoral race.

I didn't get it when Rob Ford got elected. I didn't understand it. And I actually read most of Robin Doolittle's book and I was really taken aback by some of the family history. And I remember, I mean, it's a city where, you know, it's pretty small in certain circles.

And I remember hearing stories about the Fords and, you know, stories about Rob's, you know, extracurricular activities and stuff like that. And I remember thinking, there's no way. There's no way. That's insane. There's no way. Did you hear these stories before he was elected mayor?

No, after he was elected mayor. Stories about, you know, partying and stuff like that where I was like, that can't be true. Stories about interventions and stuff like that. They all turned out to be right on the money. It's my hope that this time around,

I'm a transplanted Torontonian and I had this conversation with some friends over the weekend. I was at an Indian wedding in a mosque of all places to be. Indians i remember saying indians are hindu right yes well they're muslim muslim they're muslim that's right it was a muslim wedding so i actually said to my friends you know what i want to be proud of my city again i want to be proud of toronto as a city again i don't want to be an international joke anymore i don't want to be a caricature i don't want to be a cartoon so regardless of my politics which i don't really have i a caricature. I don't want to be a cartoon. So regardless of my politics,

which I don't really have, I'm not a liberal. I'm not a progressive. Um, I do, you know, vote for whom I think is the best person for the job, but I would hope that we wouldn't make the same mistake knowing what we know now that we kind of had a hint to then, right? Because now it's like, don't prove that you're the fool again that you were made out to be right don't fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me and i gotta tell you every time doug ford smiles i think he's about to eat a baby he just has that glimmer of remember uh when uh the vegas version of uh i'm back to the future biff yeah sort of like the vegas future biff yeah that's who you might you know what i mean the four brothers, always struck me as those two guys that I went to high school

that would call you a faggot and shove you in a locker and just be racist. And they had money. So you know what I mean? Such a sense of entitlement. Exactly. And the rules of the play. Again, just my opinion. But it really seemed as if that's sort of the wave that they had rid.

And it's funny, too, when you watch watch them now no matter how things tend to go the moment it's not going the way they want it to go it becomes an attack yeah i'm gonna personally attack you and blame you yeah and i don't really think there's anybody to vote for besides john tory the guy looks like a mayor to me and the guy has business background yeah he's he's from a background he was a lawyer. I think he's the kind of guy that can, even if he didn't save me money, if he just writes the ship

and gets everybody to play nice, I'm happy with that. Mayors don't have any power. Like they're a vote, one vote on council. They're a whole, they are a figurehead essentially who gets council to, finds consensus, reaches consensus on counsel yeah that is a mirror what so john tory or olivia like i actually both would be fine because both would

work well with others yeah and be open-minded i just wish that olivia chow would stop spending all of her time attacking john tory and focus more on herself oh i agree 100 she's so smart and i read a now magazine they said olivia stop worrying about the fact that your command of the English language isn't great. Right. Most of Toronto's isn't. Right. And I totally agree with that. I would love to see it.

And to me, it's fine. It's fine. It's absolutely fine. I think she worries too much about the Tories and the Fords of the world, and she should just get her message out. But at this point, if we don't end up with John Tory, I've actually said to my wife, it's hilarious, we planned a pumpkin carving at our house the night of the election.

I said, because if the Fords get in again, I want to have a knife in my hand. So I can have an honor killing where I take my own life. But actually, this happened again. I'm at a point where I actually, and to be honest, of all of the three of them, the one I prefer the most is actually Olivia Chow. But I'm at a point now where I would like Olivia Chow to step down. And put her support. I don't want to split the sane vote.

to step down to ensure... And put her support. I don't want to split the sane vote. My biggest fear is John Tory and Olivia Chow somehow split what I call the anti-Ford vote, and then Doug somehow slips up the middle of like 35% or something, if that math works. Right. That is my fear.

So I know if Olivia Chow dropped out today, Doug would have no chance. What's funny, though, too, now, is that nobody wants to say there's no way it could happen because we saw it happen. We saw it happen. I wrote... Anything is possible.

People remind me all the time, especially my buddy Il Duce, that I wrote just before the election in 2010, I wrote, Rob Ford for mayor, not on my watch. I wrote this entry because I hated the councillor Rob Ford. Yeah. And I had been writing about him for years and how short-sighted and ignorant and stuff. Hated him. Stuff he said about bike, bike, cyclists. and I've been writing about him for years and how short-sighted and ignorant and stuff, hated him, stuff he said about bike, bike,

cycling. Yeah, not that you guys deserve to be killed because it's your own fault, that kind of thing. My heart bleeds for them but at the end of the day it's their own fault

because of course, roads are for cars only and all this short-sighted nonsense that he should be mayor of some small hick town somewhere else, not Toronto. I think he had the same opinion

on women dressing slutty. Yeah. They're just asking for it. That sounds like Ford Nation right there. He's the reason women dressing slutty. Yeah. They were just asking for it. That sounds like it sounds like Ford Nation right there. Anyway. He's the reason for the slut march.

Yeah. So I wrote that and of course we all our guys all split the difference and it didn't matter that Smitherman

dominated downtown because he had enough baggage that people Well the other thing too Mike is that there's probably more people talking about the election now

than ever talked about it. I don't think I don't think this conversation was happening so much during the Miller race. I suspect the voter turnout will be an all-time high in the city. I really hope so. And I really hope people are talking about it. I hope really people start paying more attention to it.

But I think a lot of, I believe a lot of people who would vote Chow with their heart are going to vote Tory with their head. Knowing. Knowing that they have any, both are better than Ford coming in. So that's what I think is happening. When the Fords lose, how long is it before Doug takes his ball and goes back to Chicago?

Oh, yeah, right away. And Rob goes to Florida and they just disappear. The problem is Rob can't lose. He can't lose because War II... Well, yeah, he'll win that. He can't lose War II, so he's going to be... Assuming he wins the health battle,

he'll be around for four more years. But Doug will go back to Chicago. And I don't know wins the health battle yeah he'll be uh he'll be around for four more years but doug uh will go back to chicago and i don't know if you read the robin do little piece about deco labels and all the i did where she printed all the invoices from all the the business deco was doing messed up the just that was there yeah that was a shock to me that we have actual contracts with the family's business which to me isn't that would be like if the city when john tory wins if the city gave all its contracts to rogers like it's not even if a conflict of interest is optics alone the optics of a conflict of interest are enough it doesn't matter what's actually happening but i was just curious to hear yours because your transplanted toronto i was born and raised i was born at st

joe's in parkdale i've always been in toronto and the for Ford era has made me look at my city so differently than I used to. I used to see it as this progressive nation. I used to see it as a progressive city. Right. You know, multicultural. Now I see it as like there are so many homophobes and racists and bigots among us. And if I see a Ford Nation sign in the neighborhood, my thought, for better or worse, I think he's finding comfort in somebody who thinks like him, which is like a dog whistle for, you know, bigotry and racism.

Oh, so true. I think one of the things that I was most angry about too, as a guy that's been to rehab and as a guy that's in recovery, when I watched him make a mockery of everything that is sobriety and recovery, and I do work with CAMH and I so clearly knew that he was lying about everything, that he was at country club rehab, and that, you know, I'm not going to drink, you know, today or next week, or I'm just going to curb my drinking. As an addict, I know that he's full of shit.

Yep. And I think anybody else that's an addict that's ever had that abuse in their family knows that he's full of shit. Yeah. So that becomes a mockery of everything that you stand for, too. So it's like, well, if he's lying about that, if he will go to those lengths

and not be home with his kids and not repair his life with his family and he's so concerned about being drunk at state queen and so concerned about being with jimmy kimmel and not about sitting in front of his kids and going dad's got issues and dad needs help which i had that conversation with my own kids and that's not did you want to talk about that uh you don't have to obviously it's very personal but uh because jeremy taggart and aaron davis both kind of talked about when they realized an easy conversation to have. Did you want to talk about that? You don't have to. Obviously, it's very personal. No, whatever. Because Jeremy Taggart and Aaron Davis both kind of talked about

when they realized they needed to kind of quit cold turkey, if you will, alcohol. Right. And they both confessed, talked about their problems

and whatever. Yeah. So you're a recovering alcoholic? Yeah, and drug addict. So when did this come to a boiling point where change had to happen and how did the change?

Well, for me, I've been sober to over a little over two years. My son's birthday was when I quit a couple of years ago. And that for me was literally a, you know, between my son's illness and just sort of what I had allowed myself to become. It was my bottom. And I realized that I was absolutely 100 percent done. And I literally had to sit my wife down and say, you know, I just need you to try and give me a chance to rebuild this.

Because it was at that point where I was going to lose my marriage and I was going to lose my wife and my family. And I wasn't willing to let that happen. I looked at my priorities in my life and was like, well, do I want to be high and drunk all the time? Or do I want to have a real life? So what are you high with?

What drug are we talking here? Well, I ran the gamut. I mean, I went to, I was addicted to a drug called, what do you got? And I was never to a drug called What Do You Got? And I was never into needles or anything like that or really, really hard stuff. But I had a problem with cocaine. I had a problem with pills, with painkillers. Well, you're the DJ stereotype if you're doing the cocaine.

Yeah. Well, back in the day, I went to rehab while I was on CHFI. I actually would do the show and then go to rehab. And I did that for like for 28 days. I was the only person in the history of the program to ever. It was my anchor. I needed to be on the air to do the rehab. And I did, and it stuck for a while. And, you know, and, and Julie Adam, the girl that I talked about earlier that saved my life, she, she put me in rehab and said, you know, we're going to, we're going to help you. They did give me help. And you know, that didn't last as long as it

should have. And I, I, I quietly, quietly crept back. But a lot of times you have to fall off the wagon to get back on it with, with more strength. And for me, it was really, it was really my family that was, that was sort of the anchor for me. And you know, my son, my son's stroke was another big thing that his life was irrevocably changed. And you know, I didn't want to be what you talked about earlier, the DJ stereotype. Like I used to be on, when I was on Kiss, I was, I was doing two video shows and a TV show. So I was working 13, 15 hours a day. So I was taking pills to stay awake. And then you're drinking with those pills. And then that just becomes your norm.

And for me, it was probably no easier decision to ever make than to quit when I did quit. And I was ready to do it. Was this like a switch you turn where you go cold turkey? Or did you actually go into something else? For me, it was. For me, it was. But for me, was for me it was but for me for me it's a switch but it's also a transparency and an accountability thing where i've made myself

publicly accountable like i say on my show i'm i'm in recovery i'm a recovering drug addict and alcoholic so if you see me at a bar that's what i'm about to go you should you should probably say hey i thought you didn't drink and that helps to hold me accountable because there are two types of alcoholics in my opinion that i've i One is the, I will never touch another drop again because it's like, it's a cold turkey, clean break. And then some who at some point realized

they can actually have like, I don't know, a Heineken. Well, that's what I did last time. That's what I did last time. I was like, well,

I'll just drink on weekends. I'll just drink to celebrate. I'll just drink. And that just, that's just a slippery slope. Yeah. There's, well,

it's like, you know, the common alcoholic credo is that, you know, that one's too many and the thousand's not enough. I couldn't possibly get where I needed to go anymore. No matter what I did, I would just black out or pass out. So it just didn't make any sense anymore for me.

And I prescribed to the I'm not going to drink today theory, whereas I can't tell the future. But I have no desire whatsoever to do it because my life is so much richer. tell the future, but I have no desire whatsoever to do it because my life is so much richer. Because, you know, if you had made the request of me to come do this podcast, I wouldn't have said yes, because I would have wanted to go home and crash so I could get up and I wouldn't be loaded all the time, but I drank all the time and I wanted to, I would have a beer in the shower. So it became like a crutch essentially. Because of my schedule, I'm off the air at 10 o'clock in the morning. I'm awake for my nap at noon. I don't have to go to bed till 11 o'clock at night. So I would drink all the time or, you know, or, or, or do drugs and party.

And I thought that's the guy that I had to be. And, you know, it's, it's been great for me to realize that I don't have to be that person anymore and that my life is that much more enriched and I have way more hours in a day and I enjoy myself and I don't look like shit all the time. And I lost a bunch of weight, you know, and I, but you look good. I don't want to, thank you. And my wife, my wife says I'm better sexually than I've ever been before. And I'm like, Hey man, I'll take that at 45 years old. Yeah. That's awesome. You know, for me personally, it's been

great. So anybody that this business is, is, is, is rife with casualties. And I, I go to stuff all the time where I see guys I've worked with that, that have just been living hard. And now, now you can sort of get away with it in your late twenties, early thirties. But once you hit around 40, you can really start to, the gin blossom nose starts to come up and the guys with deviated septums and stuff like that, that just really haven't been able to curtail their activities. So I'm glad I could, I could sort of hang it up when I did. That's good for you. Now, what happens next time you have adversity?

Like, so, I mean, you, if you face some big adversity with your son's health and, but what happens next time there's something, I guess you'll know you've got this beat, if you will, next time you actually have to face adversity. Mike, a year ago, last September, my best friend in the world was murdered. He was on the Danforth. He was on his bike. He's a fireman in Markham,

and he was going to a hookah bar to have a cup of tea because he'd had a few beers and sober up a bit before he drove his bike. And a mentally unstable man stabbed him to death. Wow. And the day after that happened, I became the media spokesman for the family and I hosted his wake slash party and helped with his widow and his two daughters. And I didn't drink then. So if I didn't drink then, if I didn't think then, if I didn't drink then, if I didn't't drink then... So you faced some adversity. If I didn't drink then, if anything, it helped my resolve because I needed to be strong for somebody.

I think I'm going to be all right. I think that I'm going to be okay. I don't think I need that crutch anymore. No, good for you. That's great. And you know what? There's whatever your path is, more power to you.

Knock yourself out. I mean, I had 20 people at my house last night and 19 of them are drinking. It's all good. It's just not me. It's not who I am, you know, and I don't, I don't want to be that guy anymore. I like, I like the guy I am now a lot better. And I think anybody that I've ever worked with that sees me now, they're like, yeah, you're a lot better to be around. I'm glad I didn't meet the other guy. Well, you know what? The other guy wasn't that bad. And a lot of, a lot of my friends say, I never knew that you really had a problem because you were, you were, you were a partier, but you know what? I don't think I was, I don't think I was great to be around at home all the time.

I think that I probably wasn't a great dad as I could have been. I certainly wasn't as good a husband as I could have been. And I'm just thankful that I got another chance to make it better. That's good. And I'm glad I got to meet you. Yeah, you too, man.

You know what? We're 90 minutes in and I forgot that this is the first time we ever met. That's true. It's like chatting with an old buddy. No, it's great. I mean, I enjoy your podcast and,

you know, I look forward to hearing it every week. Thanks for doing this, man. Bringing up the pot. Fade this out. Now you're making me nervous. I have to perform.

You're doing good. And that brings us to the end of our 90 second show. You can follow me on Twitter at Toronto, Mike and mad dog at mad dog, virgin. See you all next week.