Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mark Hebscher Returns: Toronto Mike'd #401

Episode Date: November 23, 2018

Mike chats with Mark Hebscher about the success of his podcast Hebsy on Sports, why he'll never get another MSM gig, Vince Carter, Gibby, Nylander, and Dan Maloney.

Welcome to episode 401 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Paytm Canada, Census Design and Build, and our newest sponsors, Palma Pasta and Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. I'm Mike from torontomike.com, and joining me is host of Hebsey on Sports, Canada's most listened to sports podcast presentation, Mark Hebseyer. Thank you, Mike.

Great to be here on your podcast. Number one sports podcast in all of Canada on iTunes. Did you say? Is that what you said? I said Canada's most listened to sports podcast presentation. Say that again.

It just sounds so good. Well, you know, that's an homage. You know who I'm... Bob McCowan. Your old boss. That's right. Canada's most listened to sports presentation. so good. Well, you know, that's an homage. You know who I'm... To Bob McCowan, Canada's most listened... Your old boss. That's right. Canada's most listened to sports presentation. Yeah. I know. I know you know.

Not everyone listening is a sports media buff like us. You have to be sensitive to that. I think you'd be surprised. I think you'd be surprised. I think most people cannot detach themselves from those who present the sports. Just, you know, the athletes and the geniuses.

But now you're assuming everyone listening is a sports fan. Oh, no, I'm not. Okay, good. Because Bob McCowan is, I dare I use the analogy, inside baseball for some of the listeners. But I want to know right off the bat, even though you probably told me on several other episodes,

but remind us when in your career you worked for Bob or with Bob McCowan? Here's the story. Bob was hosting a show called Talking of Sports on 1430, which is now 590, which was owned by Foster Hewitt at the time. And I was looking for work. I had been fired from my job in Niagara Falls, Ontario. And I moved back in with my parents. And Bob was at CKFH and he had this show

and, um, I wanted to work there. I wanted to be his producer. I wanted to get on the air. I wanted to be a sportscaster and he was the best. It was fabulous. He was on late at night. He was outrageous too. And so, uh, I bugged him.

I showed up, I actually showed up at the radio station like every day, like in the morning, early in the morning. And I knew where he parked his car. Okay. So I really stalked him. I just look at it and I'd send him an audition. I'd send him a tape and I just bugged him for about two weeks until he finally hired me. Something happened, someone left or a job came open, whatever it was. And he hired me. And so I was his producer. I mean, I would produce the radio show. We would get, you know, get together before and say, okay, who do we want to get on as a guest? There were no cell phones in those days so you had to call people you had to phone them on their home phone or whatever and say hi can we call you at 8 30 at night or whatever time

we needed so we would set all that up and um and we would he would take calls from the callers and some of them were just you know outrageous i would i would be the call screener the producer was the call screener so i'd get your hey i want to talk to Bob about the Leafs. And Bob would say to me, he'd say, look, if you've got somebody that's angry or drunk, put them on. Because then he could have fun with the listener. Is there any other type of caller for these late night radio programs? They're all drunk or angry. No, no, no, no, no, no. They're not.

But the thing is, is that the hardcore fan would be the one that would have the guts to phone in. Right? They want to hear their voice on the air but they wanted to challenge the host on something usually i mean he's bob never no when i did talk the same thing i don't want someone phoning in going love your show love this love what you said about that love this you're so right about that you're like wow give me an argument uh disagree with me uh add something um to what i was saying right it makes for great radio but that's the way

sports fans are anyway you're right sports fans you could be everyone could be going Tavares is the best Tavares is the best he's the best

he's the best one guy's gonna go he's not that great what Matthews is better what argument begun okay

and that's just you know from here to eternity that will be the mantra of any sports fan, any sport. You could be two peas in a pod and agree with about everything. There's going to be times where you're going to say, I would trade Jake Gardner for that guy. And the other, I wouldn't. Okay, let's go. So it's a natural thing. So, you know, it used to be that the callers were really well screened and you didn't, and you didn't get on the air unless you were entertaining.

And now it's like, oh, Bill's waiting on the phone. He's been sitting on the 401 in traffic. Put him on. And the call screener may be... But it's supply and demand, I think, now. You're just happy to have a warm body on the other line. I feel like the calls have dried up,

the quantity of calls, I believe. I don't know how you compare it because we're talking, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're talking late 70s, early 80s? When exactly is this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, late 70s. And again, it was entertaining to listen.

And remember, talk radio in those days was late night. Sports was late night. Bob was on from 10 to midnight, right? So you get some real crackerjacks out there. But at the same time, the game would be over. So someone who was at the game

is going, no, I saw so-and-so playing. I'm so aggravated, and I don't like this, and we should trade that guy, or Ballard's a goof, or what's with the Blue Jays? How come they don't serve beer at Exhibition Stadium? Whatever it was, right? You would feel the pulse of the Toronto sports fan. That's the difference. The pulse of the

Toronto fan. Not the Edmonton fan. No offense to those of you in Edmonton, Kevin in Alberta, or whatever, but come on. There is a Kevin in Alberta. I know. I'm just saying. I'm from Toronto. Maybe he's listening. I don't get up in the morning and say, I wonder what's going on in Winnipeg with the Jets.

You know, if I turn on a sportscast or whatever and I hear the guys on the desk talking about the Grey Cup, for example, and I go, I'm from Toronto. I don't have an interest in Ottawa. I don't care about Calgary. I'm not that same guy. I haven't been to a party. I'm from Toronto. I don't have an interest in Ottawa. I don't care about Calgary. I'm not that same guy. I haven't been to a party. I'm not sorry. I'm a Toronto guy.

The Toronto teams are the most important. They're the ones I've been following and spent most of my time and my energy following. All right? Yeah, you'll worry about the Jets and the playoffs. No, I won't. See, that's just it. That's just it.

I won't. If the Leafs aren't playing, I may watch, but I'm not going to watch a full game. I'm not going to sit through a full game of the Vancouver Canucks and the Winnipeg Jets. God, no. When was the last time you watched a full hockey game that did not involve the Maple Leafs? And if you're like me, because my answer is the Stanley Cup Finals last year.

Probably. Oh, World Junior Championships? Oh, I don't know if that counts. What do you mean you don't know if it counts? Okay, you'll watch World Junior Championship if it does not involve Canada. You asked me the question. Is that right? I have.

Oh, I have. Yeah. I have. I saw some games live actually a couple of years ago when they came here in Toronto. Yep. I enjoyed it very much. I was at that gold medal. Oh no, because they came here twice in a row or something.

I have to tell you though, Mike, since not being in the mainstream media, I really enjoy watching sporting events now. Before I did because I didn't like, I enjoyed enjoy watching sporting events now. Before, I did because I didn't enjoy it the same because I was working. I had to formulate an opinion, put a story together, a commentary about that particular game, and now I can watch it for the

sheer enjoyment as a fan. It's wonderful to not have to worry about being unbiased. Okay, so is that the big difference? Because you have a podcast, Hebsey on Sports, which is Canada's most listened to sports podcast. Thank you for that.

Which we'll dive into deeper shortly. But you're unabashedly, but you're not a homer in that. You're a realist. Like you see it for what it is, but you happen to, you're not hiding the fact that you're rooting for the Toronto team.

The toughest critic is always the one that is, that loves you the most, right? Whoever, your spouse loves you the most. They're, when I say toughest critic, I mean,

a critic in a good way. It's constructive. It's not, it's not, they'll be, they'll be on, they're not going to blow smoke up your ass. Right.

Exactly. Right. Okay. They can bring you back down to earth. They're going to bring you be on it. They're not going to blow smoke up your ass. Right. Exactly right. Okay. They're going to bring you back down to earth. They're going to bring you down to earth. All right. I've been a Maple Leaf fan, like many people from the time. Of course, it's, you know, it's in your DNA.

Your dad was a Leaf fan. You sat in front of the television when you were two years old to watch. I'll get out in Canada. It's in your DNA. So if that's the case and you're passionate about them, all right, should you not be entitled to be their greatest critic when you spent that much time and energy and love and lost sleep and everything else should you not be entitled to say they need to trade this guy that guy's got to go i don't know whatever it

is then you should be and that's what i am i'm a fan absolutely have been since i was a kid when i was a reporter i had to look at it differently. When they win now, I love it. Okay, but I feel like that persona that is you, which is easy to be that persona because it is you, Hebsey. You're not faking anything.

This is really you. So I feel like that persona is allowed to have a radio show. We have two sports radio stations, terrestrial radio stations in the city. You can be a fan of toronto sports and have a show on the fan 590 for example you have to understand something

they don't want to hire me they're afraid of what they're going to get this has always been the case oh geez hepscher's going to say something and then corporate's going to call and go i wanted to just say and he said something politically incorrect he because remember when i started my career you could be what they said something politically incorrect he because remember when i started my career you could be what they call now politically incorrect you could be you were allowed talking about you're not talking about commentary about anybody's like uh race or creed or nationality sure i was okay of course i was but only the new fees right well no but that's anyway but it's not done maliciously and that's the difference if someone

knows who you are is oh there's hebsey again trying doing his kung fu impersonation okay there's a good example right now oh you pitch the ball to the catcher so you're right if i'm doing if i'm doing david keratin or whatever from kung fu and i'm doing a japanese uh imitation i'm not making fun of the japanese people i'm only using that in a humorous way now i have to tell you i have friends lots of friends people that i know that are asian that they thought it was the funniest thing in the world but if i if i insulted one person asian or otherwise that's the difference if one person was insulted or if one person said oh i can't believe he's making fun of the asian people by using that accent which i wasn't then all hell breaks loose and

that's what political correctness is now back then it was funny i wasn't hurting anyone okay okay but if you if you can't do it you cannot now. No, you can't do that now. You can't. You just can't do it. You're absolutely right. Cannot do it. But if you... I mean, a lot of the bits we used to laugh at in the 90s are not allowed. Jesse and Gene had that South Asian character they break into all the time. Of course. Never

would they be able to do that today. No, that's Tony Daniels. That's the cheap voice guy. Tony the cheap voice guy. He's the voice of CBC now. Tonight on Hockey Night in Canada. That's Tony Daniels. So he's Tony the cheap voice guy. He's the voice of CBC now. Tonight on Hockey Night in Canada. That's Tony Daniels. So he's Tony the cheap voice guy on the Jesse and Gene show. He could do an impersonation of anything but his best impersonations were the Greek guy, the Souvlaki song.

So was he making fun of Greeks? Or was he going, or like John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd when they did, you know, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger, come on. Are you making fun of a race? Are you making fun of people that speak? Are you really? Or are you just having fun?

Can they be laughing with you? If I hear a guy do, hey, I'm doing a jewelry show, if it's funny, I'm laughing. I'm not going, oh, he's making fun of the race, but you cannot do that today. So that's when I started in broadcasting, you could be that guy. He's funny.

But Hebsey, Hebsey, I listen to every episode of Hebsey on Sports, and you've never once broke into a character like that. No, I can't. You can't even on your own podcast. No, that would be wrong, wouldn't it, Mike? I'm just saying. What I'm saying is you can create compelling sports commentary and content without needing to mimic a Japanese man.

You don't need it. Correct. Okay. Exactly right. But if... So if someone said, hey, you're now the morning guy on 1050. Right. We want you to be the morning guy.

Yeah. You and Landsberg, okay? I know. Are you friendly with Landsberg? Yeah. I wouldn't do it. Okay. First of all, number one is they could not pay me enough money to go through that.

Oh, good, because they're not going to offer you very much money. They couldn't. Number two is they would never do it because, like I said before, every time someone hired me, it was like, okay, we heard stories about you. Yeah, they're true. What do you want me to say? All right? What do you want me to say?

My job is to produce compelling, interesting, entertaining radio or TV or whatever I was doing, podcasting, writing. I wrote a book. I hope it's interesting. I hope it's entertaining. I hope to turn the next page. I hope you keep listening. I hope you watched the show. You taped the show? You used to videotape the show? You must have really liked the show. What am I supposed to do, Mike? I have an ego. Everyone everyone does but when a boss goes oh man if we hire him we could get good numbers and advertisers might want to but jeez what if he says something you're not corporate friendly not at all and everything's corporatized now because bell media rogers mike i want to tell you how i lost a job once the wife of the comptroller

comptroller of the company that's a financial i think it's a CFO kind of a gig, didn't like the way I referred to, I think it was Venus Williams. I don't know what I said. It wasn't racist. But one person of influence in the company that I worked for said to her husband, can't let this guy do that. And then before you do it, I was gone out. Which job was that? It doesn't matter.

Another time I got sued. The station got sued. There was a lawsuit against the station. They came to me and said, we have a lawsuit here. You're named in it. We're named in it. You're out. you're out fired gone lawsuit dropped famous oh yeah which gig was that famous famous gig i was at c 590 i was at ckey 590 that was uh we had uh i had a talk show every night oh before uh before cjcl took over the signal uh oh yeah way before way before that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. Oh, my God, what happened? There's a lawsuit against us. They named Mark Hepsher. He said something that was... And you don't remember what you said? Oh, I remember exactly what I said. Can I hear it, and I'll tell you my honest opinion

on whether you got snowballed or not? Phil Esposito was supposed to be on the show. He said he would come on the show. We promoted it. I think we had some print advertising, actually, with it. We promoted it all the time, Phil Esposito was supposed to be on the show. He said he would come on the show. We promoted it. We had, I think we had some print advertising, actually, with it. We promoted it all the time, Phil Esposito. He was still active in the NHL.

Was he still active or was he just, no, I think he was still active. Or he just retired or something like that. Or he was on a tour. I got it. He was on a tour and it was for the 10-year anniversary of the Canada-Russia series. Okay.

There you go. 1982. So he said he'd come on the show. Great, fabulous. Phil Esposito's coming on. Here I am telling Jim Hunt, Phil Esposito's coming on. Mention it on your sportscast.

Here I am telling, what's it, Pierre Burton and Charles Templeton. Wow. Okay, we got Phil Esposito's coming on the show. Phil Esposito's coming on. Ladies and gentlemen, here's the show.

It starts. Our guest tonight, Phil Esposito. Now I go to my producer, Mitch Litvak. on. Ladies and gentlemen, here's the show. It starts. Our guest tonight, Phil Esposito. Now I go to my producer, Mitch Litvak. Where is Phil? Where's he? I haven't heard from him. Not here. He said he was going to be here.

Not here. Not here. Show's two hours long. He never showed up. Never showed. So in the last half hour, so between 7.30 and 8, we've been promoting Phil Esposito all day, and he's a no-show. I'm getting more and more angry.

Why wouldn't he show? And why wouldn't he at least phone to say, hey, because he's got the number, the inside number, the hotline, not even a call because he was supposed to come into the studio. So he wouldn't even phone to be on the phone, which you could do. You could say, hi, I'm phoning you from a phone booth somewhere. No. So what happened was I said something to the effect of, you know, that Phil Esposito, that SOB that, you know, promised us this.

But did you say SOB? No, I didn't say the actual words. You son of a bitch. I didn't say, I didn't, I said SOB, I didn't swear. Okay. But what happened was I basically said, this guy, I don't believe anything he says. And, you know, he said this and he lied to us. He was a liar.

And anyway, the next day, lawsuit from the Phil Esposito Foundation. You called him a liar. You besmirched his reputation. Da, da, da, da, da. And then so and then so boom i was out that was it gone and then phil and i made up like a few years later when i saw him he's like sorry about that man but you can't say those things about me on the air i go dude you never showed up and then he made some uh i forget what happened or he had too much to drink whatever it was he never showed up he deserved what i want to hear my verdict i got fired the people's court judge wapner okay. Okay, ready? You got screwed over there.

You got screwed over there. I would tell you, just like someone who loves you gives you the truest criticism, I would tell you, you got screwed over there. Yeah. Well, here's the best part of the story is I was told by a good friend of mine who also happened to be a lawyer that I should sue them for wrongful dismissal, which I did, and I won. Good for you.

But still, it's not a good way to go out, and I like that gig. I was the only sports talk show in town. CJ Seale did not have one at the time. I think they bounced Earl McRae to later Earl McRae, but I had the only one. I was on from 6 till 8. I was the only guy. I was the one who took thousands of fans to the Jays

game. I was the one who was the... I was the one who... Listen, I'm not sure it was because of me, but I was the one who said, if you don't start serving beer at jays and leafs games i mean the crowds that was your idea funeral it was like being at a funeral right quietest crowds in the world we're in toronto nobody could get liquored up except at the argo games where they bring their wine skins and be hammered oh yeah there's always a way i mean there's always there's a will so yeah so nobody's gonna hire mike no one's gonna hire me because it's always a will. So yeah, so nobody's going to hire, Mike, no one's going to hire me because it's too risky.

I could go off, I could be like, what's his name in Network? All of you go to your windows. Open the windows. I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. Which was the, you know,

the battle cry for Leaf fans for years, but they never actually did it. So yeah, I'm that guy. I'm that guy that's just going to, you know, never mind if the ratings are good or people go, hey, I like listening because he's interesting and informative. He's got good stories to tell, whatever. He knows his sports. No, it would be, he's going to say something.

He's going to say something and we're all going to get in trouble. And then the CRTC is going to come down. What am I, Dean Blundell? No, I don't do shit like that. Come on. Yeah. Okay. I guess so. I don't talk about your bum hole and No, I don't do shit like that. Come on. Yeah, okay. I guess so. I don't talk about your bum hole and stuff.

I don't do that stuff. Okay? If Brandon Shannon or Kyle Dubas or what's the dynamic duo with the J's there? Atkins and Shapiro. Shapiro, Shapiro. And, you know, any of those guys or Masai or MLSC or any of these guys, TFC guys, if they screw up or something happens or whatever, of course I'm going to be,

because I'm a dedicated fan and a fan wants to see the best possible team put out there and the best players and the best performance and, and make Nylander sit, make him sit. I'm okay with that. I'll take management side there. Make him, he should want to play for the Leafs.

He should come begging on his hands and knees. Please put me with Austin Matthews. Please put me on that team with John Tavares and Freddie Anderson. Please. Stubborn, no. Let me give context to listeners right now. So we just recorded episode 55 of Hebsey on Sports. We did that like at 9 a.m.

And it went a little longer than normal. We called it the Black Friday special. Is that 9 a.m. and it went a little longer than normal. We called it the Black Friday special, is that what we called it? But it went a little longer. We never, I think this is the first time it hit 40 minutes. So usually it's about 35 minutes. We recorded that and then, you know, I wanted to get that online before we started recording this right here, episode 401. So. Yes. And by the way, thank you for episode 401. I mean, Mike, honestly, it's like being able to choose your own telephone number, right? You know, it's like being able to choose your own number. You gave me 401.

I mean, you handed me the McDonnell-Carshay Freeway episode. The 400 series begins really with the, not the 400. No. The 401. We're not going north here. I mean, how often is the 401 referenced in popular music and culture and whatever? The 401, everybody is the 401 referenced in popular music and culture and whatever? The 401! Everybody knows

the 401. Episode 401 will forever be the episode with me. Forever. You are Mr. 401. Now I'm going to play a few songs that have 401 referenced really briefly here. Good.

4-0-1 It sounds like that. It sounds like that. 4-0-1 Now! It's in the first line of the song, so we're going to let him get to the lyrics, and then I'll play it down.

But this is Staggered Crossing. Further again. Here it comes. Heading out off the 401 but that's uh whenever i think of 401, I kind of break into Further Again. That was a hit on rock radio in this country. I hate being on the 401.

I hate it. I'm like that. I get anxiety on the 401. I don't like it. No, 401's a horrible highway. Nothing good about it. Staying stoned on highway 401. I love it.

I love it. This is, of course, Jason Collett from Broken Social Scene. Yeah, really good. Beautiful song. If you're looking for this at home, it's No Redemption Song. By the way,

you're the first person ever to kick out the jams. Do you know that with me? You were number one in the Kick Out the Jams series, which continues to this day. God, my ego is just swelling here. I was the first to kick out the jams, and I'm on episode 401, the McDonald-Carcher episode. Hey! The spuds are big on the back of Bud's rig. They're from Prince Edward Island. They're from Prince Edward Island.

Now from Charlottetown or from Summerside, they load him down for the big long ride. He jumps in the cab and he's off with the pride. So big goes. He's got to catch the boat to make Parmintyne. And he hits up that old New Brunswick line. To Montreal he comes just a-flyin' with another big load of potatoes

It's spud to spud from the bright red mud Rollin' down the highway smilin' The spuds are big on a back of bud rig They're from Prince Edward Island They're from Prince Edward Island Now the Ontario Provincial Police don't think much of bud Yeah, the cops have been lookin' for the son of a gun Now the Ontario Provincial Police don't think much of Bud. Yeah, the cops have been looking for the son of a gun that's been ripping the tire off the 401.

There you go. Leave it to Stomping Thompson. Minute and a half into the song before he finally refers to the 401. Yeah, good on the other guys for doing it early, though. Bud the Spud was the nickname of a famous Toronto Maple Leaf player. Errol Thompson from PEI. Yeah, good on the other guys for doing it early, though. Bud the Spud was the nickname of a famous Toronto Maple Leaf player. Errol Thompson from PEI. We called him Bud the Spud.

You know what? Because, you know, authenticity that we played a clip on episode 55 of Hebsey on Sports, which for us was just like a half an hour ago. You played a clip of Lanny McDonald talking about that line, right? Yeah. That was Lanny. Lanny McDonald talking about that line, right? Yeah. That was Lanny. Daryl said Lanny McDonald and Errol Thompson, yeah. And like they, I mean, Thompson had 43 goals one year. They were, yeah, the Maple Leafs of the mid-70s.

That was the number one line. That was the John Tavares, Mitch Marner, Zach Hyman line of this year, except Errol Thompson had 43 goals. I don't think Zach Hyman's going to get to 43 this year. I'm just thinking, no, probably not. Heads up, later in this episode, I'm going to ask you about a player that was traded for Errol Thompson had 43 goals. I don't think Zach Hyman's going to get to 43 this year. I'm just thinking, no, probably not. Heads up, later in this episode, I'm going to ask you about a player that was traded for Errol Thompson.

Yeah, sure. So that's coming up soon. So let's... Oh, what? You're going to get more music there? No, no more music. No, you don't have the Tragically Ips of... Yeah, yeah, Titanic.

Serrarium? Yes. That's okay. Honestly, it was in my head to get it. I know, but it is... Okay. That's another 401. Yeah, you have to.

You got to mention it. But I'm glad you mentioned it because that's on the Mount Rushmore of 401 jams, for sure, for sure. So here, if you want to hear more, obviously you can subscribe to Hebsey on Sports at hebseyonsports.com. And we'll talk a little bit soon

about the success you've experienced with that podcast. But I want to tell everybody other episodes of this podcast that feature Mark Hebsey. So in episode 89, way back in 89, Mike chats with Mark Hebsher about his years on Global Sportsline. You're reading that.

His relationship with Jim Taddy. You wrote this, right? I just copied and pasted it. His fight with Dave Steeb, his years at Q107, 640. My fight with Jim Taddy or my fight with Dave Steeb? Well, is there a fight with Jim Taddy? Wait a second. Did you misprint that? No, I said your relationship

with Jim Taddy, his fight with Dave Steeb, his years at Q107, 640, the score, Sportsnet, and CHCH, and your recent feud with Mike Wilner. So this is kind of to date this. I guess you had a Twitter fight with Mike Wilner at So this is kind of to date this.

I guess you had a Twitter fight with Mike Wilner at the time. Yeah, but we actually at the Toronto Mike listener party, Tim LX 2. Yes. I believe I settled that. Did you guys press the flesh? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, good, because I don't want any animosity.

What's the other word? Why not? Acrimonious behavior. Acrimonia? Acrimony? Acrimony. Acrimony, right, right. No animosity, no acity? What's the other word? Acrimonious behavior? Acrimonia? Acrimony? Acrimony. Acrimony, right, right. No animosity, no acrimony.

Wilner! Listen, the guy worked hard. He's in the booth, man, and that's where he wanted to be, and he sounds good, and he knows his stuff. But you always... He's a polarizing figure, though.

You always felt... He's a polarizing figure, but you're a polarizing figure. Talk show host... Well, I was him. I was him 25 years earlier. But you think you do a better job of Jay's talk than Wilner, right? Well, Jay's talk was a different show, you see.

The thing is that I didn't do a phone-in show as part of the Jay's games. Because if I would have, they would have fired me immediately. I would have been on the first caller. See, that's a show I'd want to listen to. Why are they firing on the shows I want to listen to? Listen, I'm going to tell you right now. If the person didn't come up with something in the first few seconds to make it an interesting phone

call, they're gone, I would hang up on them I wouldn't say, I would say, look the next sound you hear will be that of a dial tone and I would hang up, because I didn't want to waste the listener's time, I didn't I did not want, as a listener as soon as I heard a caller that I didn't like, I'm ready to turn the dial

I got my finger on the button. You better turn this around. So I'm waiting for the host to either straighten this guy out or hang up on him or say something profound or funny or whatever. And it's a very short fuse there. So when I was the host, I'd listen. And if this guy didn't come, I'd say, sir, if you don't get to the point in three seconds, and then the guy would go, well, yeah, I just want to say I'm from Woodbridge, and click. And people would go, you can't do that to people. It's rude. I'm going, man, this is a sports phone-in show.

I'm only on for a couple of hours. It's my job. If the ratings are bad, I can't say, you know, Vito in Woodbridge was the reason for the bad ratings, because when he gets on the air, he just goes on. It's always Vito in Woodbridge. You know what I'm saying? Or Bill in Scarborough. It's up to me. It's my name that's out always Vito and Woodbridge. You know what I'm saying? Or Bill and Scarborough. It's up to me.

It's my name that's out there, right? So if I have to hang up on somebody to get on to the next caller to move the program along, then that's what I'm going to do. I know, Mike. You want to hang up on me right now. I want to let people know that 89 was the deep dive with you. And then you came back for episode 112. I did. And the way I wrote it up was Mark Mark Hebbshire tells a series of awesome stories.

Mike also talks to Hebbsy about the David Clarkson trade. This is really Dave's day. Wait, when was this? 2015? I don't know what year. It's just 112. Dean Blundell's new morning show. What station was that on?

I'm pretty sure he was. What happened there? He was no Andrew Crystal, but he did, you know, what happened there? Uh, why was he hired or why was he fired? Like, for example, like, did it come down to say, you know, geez, I'd like to hire Hempstead, but nah, nah, it's not going to work. No, because he's going to say something outrageous and we're all going to get fired. I can tell you, no, let's hire Blundell because they were able to, in recent history, they

could point to a specific book in which maybe he had a double-digit share. Dean Blundell, I'm talking about, for his Target demo. I had a double-digit share, but it was in the 80s. In the 80s. Right. Okay. Well, listen, it was, yeah, right. So this is recent history.

And this demo is similar, I guess, because I guess they figured guys like Blundell because he's kind of a misogynist pig, right? So guys are listening. We can get that double-digit share here. This is the thought process I'm thinking at 590. What do I know? I'm not them. All I know is the guy is not there anymore. No, he's long gone now.

And I think he's gone from his next job after that. And I think those kind of jobs, like program director jobs in radio, boom, a couple of years, move on. Move on. You know what it's like? It's like the bank manager. You just get a bank manager that you like loan whatever kind of thing you're comfortable with them and then boom they're off to another branch boom they're off to another branch it's the same thing like a principal of a school it's the same thing with these guys it's the same thing it's a couple of years and then somewhere else and uh your buddy we could tell this story because

i've heard it on happiness first you you're not your buddy blendell your buddy we could tell this story because i've heard it on heptane sports you you're not your buddy blendell your buddy um greg brady greg brady came back so he was morning guy blendell comes in and then blendell gets kicked out and then brady comes back that's uh doesn't happen too often no no it doesn't it's very true um and yeah greg was off for a while he was off for like an entire year at least he couldn't be on the air anywhere, right? As part of his, because Roger still had a contract with him, so he could not go and work somewhere else.

So he, I think he was in his basement, like talking to himself into his hand. I think he came here. Hello, good morning, everybody. Good morning, everybody. Because he didn't have his, imagine going to your gig every day and now suddenly you, sorry.

Would he have been allowed to podcast or would that violate the- No, no, that's a good question. Because that's one way to- He would have to have told his bosses at Rogers that he's allowed to podcast or would that violate the... No, no. That's a good question. Because that's one way to... He would have to have told his bosses at Rogers that he's going to podcast. And I mean, if you're Rogers, would you have said, go ahead, knock yourself out? Or would they have said, no, no, no, you're being paid and you cannot be on any airwaves. But can they stop you from that?

Because that's not working for competition, right? Would he want to do that? To sharpen the... Keep the muscles sharp. Like to... Have you sharpened muscles? You'll have to ask when you have them on

for episode 470. By the way, Mike, if you're going to post the next 20 episodes you're going to do and you're going to include everybody's Twitter handle, that means every one

of those 20 people, which includes me, is going to get a little bing every time one of the other 19 write something about the tweet. I'm glad people are dinging you. Mike, middle of the night,

bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. I'm like, what? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mark is a 401, and here's the other guest, and every single one of them, every single one of your guests. That list, by the way,

that I tweeted takes us to the end of the year because it closes with Mark Weisblot at 1236. An excellent writer. He gets the scoop on a lot of good stuff, eh? You're preaching to the choir,

There's some good stuff he's got, 1236. He's good. That's good. I don't like the word gossip, but I have to tell you, I am. No, gossip is, oh, I think this guy's sleeping with that weather woman or whatever.

That's gossip. I don't do that either. This is different. What about scuttlebutt? Is that like gossip? It depends. Like, for example, it's not gossip to say this, for example,

Virgin 99.9 just blew out 80% of their on-air staff. You know, I've never heard of a radio station doing that. Ever before. Is that the first time? Oh, only when there's format changes. No, is that the first time that a radio station in Toronto has, like, changed and gotten rid of, of course. It's a regular.

Again, Mike. No, no, no. changed and gotten rid of, of course, it's a regular... Again, Mike... Without a format change, this percentage of on-air staff being canned in the same day doesn't actually happen. It's always because we're going to be a country station now. Firing a couple of spots

and Bell Media has these regular cost-cutting waves, I've noticed. Sadly, I guess we're in one right now. But that's not gossip to discuss that Tucker is not on the morning, whatever. Are they going to change?

Are they going to call themselves virgin? Because that's like, they licensed that from the rich guy, Branson. Branson, yeah. Are they going to still be competing with their sister station chum? Because why is Bell Media competing with itself?

Now you're getting into it. See, this is not gossip. This is the kind of stuff we do. And this is why. For me to go back into the corporate, I couldn't do it. Because for all I know, something could be going great,

let's say at Chum FM, and then some yacht's on the other side of the corporate building goes, wait a minute now? Remember what they did to Humble and Fred? Do you remember when they said, yeah, we're going to start, we're going to, we're taking 640, which used to be the, it was country. It was the hog. It was talk 640. It was AM 640 talk. It was Leafs. It was everything. And then it was like, you know what? We're going to change it to an

all men's. This was real forethought too. Let's make it a men's station. Let's make it a station for misogynists. And let's not bring a misogynist over. Let's bring over a couple of guys that aren't misogynists, Humble and Fred. Let's take them from 102.1. Let's put them on an AM station and call it. Speaking of Blundell.

Ridiculous, right? So this happens, Mike, it's every two years. Every two years, at least one radio station in this city, and likely a Bell or Rogers owned, is doing some tinkering, moving some staff around, format change, yadda yadda yadda. Well, Chorus is doing it with all their stations right now. Oh yeah, I forgot about Chorus is trying to sell. First of all, nobody wants to buy Chorus.

They got this massive building down in the... Chorus has been up for sale for how long, Mike? Not even a sniff. Chorus just officially bought all of Shaw, right? I know. I'm saying, and they're up for sale. Right.

Chorus is up for sale. But who can buy them? Nobody wants them. Because Rogers and Bell can't have any more stations. Who else has got money that can buy Chorus? Great question.

So this is the landscape of broadcasting in this country. You're either part of the CBC, the public broadcaster, or you're a Bell, Rogers, or Chorus employee, or you're

working a podcast where you're your own boss and you've got the freedom to say whatever the hell you want. But there are a few independents, I'd call them. Not really independents, of course, but Stingray bought NuCap, and NuCap has a couple of big stations in the city. Boom is a big station. That's not Bell,

Rogers, or Chorus. So there are stations out there that aren't owned by those big three. And of course, we'll leave CBC aside. But I always wondered if you could surface on, is there an independent station that would hire Mark Hebbs here? Or would you rather just keep doing the podcasting thing? Because that way you kind of control your own destiny.

It's like your own brand. If I could get a job where someone would pay me a lot of money to just be me, I would take it. But if they're going to try to turn me into a corporate hack, don't forget to read the promos for Rogers Express or Bell 5 or whatever.

I mean, I'm about to do exactly that in like two minutes. And I've heard you on your show talking about Panthers Deli and I hear you talking about Johnny B. That's because sponsors pay because the content's free. Same with your show. But how is that different from Macau and talking about

a cell phone plan for Christmas or whatever? Like to me, that's just the, Dan Schulman's going to have to at some point will probably have to read a script that says something about a sponsor.

Like that's just the reality. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. Suppose, suppose the guy doing the commercial, the person reading the commercial, remember in the podcast you read your commercials live on thing you don't say we're going to go for a break and then it's a disembodied voice going you know naming your sponsors your sponsors don't want that right your sponsors to great lakes brewery doesn't want to hear another

voice saying and go to great lakes brewery and try their beers they want to hear toronto mike talk about it because that's they like your show they like you whereas if it's rogers or bell they've been sold a package by a sales guy who's taken his 30 percent oh i see and he says and tell you what here's what we're going to do you give a hundred commercials a week 25 of them are on this station between this time and this time 25 of them are on this station between this time and this time so you're at one time this station between this time and this time. So you're at one time, and then you're going to be on five different bell stations, and that's your package, and you buy a big package. With you and me, it's like,

can you come on for a month? And we do six shows, eight shows in a month. These guys are on every day, seven days a week, 24 hours, running commercials. They've got huge clients, big, big thousands of dollar buys. Very, very different. Very different. So when the host says, big, big thousands of dollar buys. Very, very different. Very different. So when the host says, we'll be back after these messages,

and then goes to the bathroom, checks his messages, has a bite to eat, comes back, says eight words, goes for another set of commercials or more songs or whatever, eventually all those people, they're going to say, well, what are we paying these people for? And people are going to listen anyway to a certain type of thing. So why not get your content the way we deliver it in podcasts, in bite-sized chunks. You can listen to half of it now, half of it later on your commute, on your run. You don't have to worry about dial flipping because we're not going to go away for a commercial break. It's going to happen seamlessly within the show. So I like that now. And unless someone is going to say, we're going to pay you well and then let you do your thing and we're not going to interfere at all

and the wife of the comptroller, even if she hates your guts, we're not going to fire you. Well, let's use this as an opportunity to let the listeners know that this cannibalizes my operation, but this is how much I care about you and your program,

that potential sponsors should contact you if they want to be a part of Hebzion Sports. Unless they're afraid of me. Unless they're afraid that I'm going to say something. No, I can vouch for you that you're not scary. And the sponsors, listen, the sponsors that we have, and you have as well, you have a relationship with that sponsor. It's not just, yeah, just send me a check every month

and I'll say things about you or whatever. It's different than that. You know the people personally, and you can speak to that when you're talking about their product or service in such a way that it's not, that people don't go, oh, geez, here's Mike with another commercial, right?

No, you move it along because people want to hear what you have to say about what your guest has to say within the topic. And they're more than willing, since they're not paying for the content, to listen. They understand that the only way you're going to keep doing this is if someone's paying for it. So rather than charge $4.99 a month, which I'm sure you know your people say,

that's not much at all. You can make your money that way and not have any commercials, or combine the two. Or you could say, listen, and if you put in the promo code Toronto Bike, you can get 10%. So there's all kinds of streams and you know podcasting is just most people in Canada don't have no idea what a podcast is no idea so those who are listening to this you guys are on the cutting edge you know how great podcasts are you can choose what you want your favorite topic if you're a if you're a gearhead you can find something about motor racing if you're a Toronto person and you're interested in Toronto personalities, it's this show. If you like sports and Toronto sports specifically, you can listen to my show.

Absolutely. And a great companion piece to this show, because I don't know if we've mentioned this, but I'm on your show as like a sidekick, I'd say. I'm a sidekick on Hepzion Sports. Is that the title of my business card? Sidekick? I'll go with that. If you're okay with Sidekick,

I don't personally like it. You produce the show. I do. I'm doing much more, of course. You do the technical production and you do the whole back end and that type of thing. And yeah, when we started, we didn't know how this was going to go. You and I were friends before this. And you're a big sports fan and you have interesting questions and comments about

sports. So rather than me just go on like a windbag for 35 minutes, just me, and I'm sure I could do it, I'm interested in your thoughts and opinions on certain things. And I'm really, I mean, we found our rhythm, as they say, because you're right. It takes a little time to evolve. But the good news is if you jump onto the Hebzion Sports Bandwagon right now, it's episode 55 just dropped. I mean, now you've kind of, you're catching

us now at our very best because we've done it 55 times and we kind of know each other's rhythms and stuff and yeah, it's a great show. If you care at all about Toronto sports, you've got to listen to it. And it's not just Toronto. I mean, you know, listen, we won't neglect big stories that don't have, like, you know, that don't have

a Toronto angle to them. Well, of course, the World Series might not have the Jays in it. We're going to cover the World Series, of course. Yeah, but I mean, for the most part, I mean, yeah, I think most of the people that listen to Hebsey on Sports are, like me and you, fans of the Toronto teams. Jays, Leafs, Raptors, TFC, Argos to an extent, although that's a tough one, man.

That is tough Canadian football. It's a hard, hard sell. I want to get into that shortly. Here, so let me burn through this. I realize we're 40 minutes in, and I'm actually in the introductory paragraph here. But you do this with a lot of your guests, which is great.

It's great. It's not the time thing. I've listened to, I'm going to say you've done over, this is 401. I've listened to 200 of your episodes for sure. And the entire episode. And I've probably listened to

maybe another 40 or 50 partial. Like, you know, I've gotten enough out of it, or at some particular point I'd had, whatever it was. No, that the entire episode. And I've probably listened to maybe another 40 or 50 partial. Like, you know, I've gotten enough out of it, or at some particular point I had had, whatever it was. No, that's great numbers, though. And didn't get back to it. But yeah, you know, the most recent one you did with Tom Wilson was what, A Voice? $3.99, Tom Wilson.

Could you not listen to Tom Wilson read the phone book? He's like the Sam Elliott of Canada. I know, he's just got great voice. But I will say this about Tom Wilson, that sometimes I do these episodes, and then I might be proud of it even, but the next day I've kind of moved on to the next thing. But the Tom Wilson episode stuck with me.

You got a lot of stuff out of him, man. You guys were talking like a couple of old buddies. Like, hey, I haven't seen you in years. What's going on? I know, and I had never met him before, and you never know what you're going to get with these rock stars. Like, Andy Kim was one way, you know. Well, you can't compare Andy Kim with Tom Wilson.

That's a bit different. No, but when you haven't met either, you don't know what you're going to get. I guess so. You don't know what you're going to get. I just sort of more imagine, I mean, Andy Kim, of course, is live. But I more imagine Andy Kim sitting at the piano composing a song. And Tom, you know, going out in the road and hitting the bars and getting up on stage and making some noise and you know Cracker Jack stuff and

he was amazing so he was 399 I should thank you right now though thank you for submitting a clip for episode 400 that was the last episode that was one I like when the Leafs were not playing on a Saturday night even though the Raptors were playing right I spent a couple hours down here putting stitching together episode 400

where I just played the clip and then I organically reacted. Most clips I hadn't listened to yet, including yours. So thank you for submitting the clip for episode 400. Sure. We already talked about you being on 89 and 112.

You were also at 150 because I was chatting with Globe and Mail writer David Schultz. And at the end, I don't know, the last... He's supposed to send me a testimonial. I sent him a copy of the book. And today's the deadline.

I heard from Gary Joyce. I haven't heard from Schultz. Do you want me to make a call? Because he takes my calls. Let me know if I can interview you. I'm just not sure if a writer that's got a book wants to write a testimonial about someone else's book. You know, his book just came out.

His book is a Christmas book. It's great. It's great. It's great. But I'm just thinking, if I've got a book out, do I want to write a testimonial for some other guy's book? Do I want someone putting my book down

and buying someone else's book? So I would understand if he didn't. But you're fishing where the fish are because a reader is a reader. Someone who buys books is likely to buy both books. Sort of like promoting another podcast on this podcast.

You're speaking to, everyone you're speaking to has listened to a podcast in their life. You know how I know? Because they're listening to us right now. So it's like you're fishing with a fish. You know, I'm an author now. It's real, you know, you think it's easy, Mike, to just go from being a podcaster to an author back and forth. So here, listen, I want a little more detail. I have a question about you and your recent success of Hebzion Sports and iTunes, which is blowing my mind. So I want to get to that. And then I want to hear about the book.

And then I have some fun stuff for us. But let me just burn through this. This isn't going to be fun stuff here? No, this is actually pre-interview stuff. So this 150 that you crashed, it says Mark Hedger crashes the party. You invited me to come over. Yeah, but I left the door unlocked and I said, yeah, I'm recording. You invited me to come over. Yeah, but I left the door unlocked and I said, yeah, I'm recording Schultz, come in.

Yes, I've never done that since and I never did it before. It's the only time I did it where I had a guest on, didn't tell the guest it was happening, kept the door unlocked and you just came in, sat beside Schultz and then I don't know, 45 minutes into Schultz's episode.

Look at his face. Who the hell? What are you doing here? I think Schultz was excited for his debut, 150. He had a big round number. But anyway, you wanted to tell the inside story of what happened. You wanted me to tell. At CHCH.

You said to me, as long as you're going to be over where you are, can you come over? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the midst of the Schultz interview. That's right. You were on... And come over and tell that story, because that was a hot story. And that story went... That story, I don't want to say went viral because it didn't.

It was a big story. But it was a big, big story. And, you know, the Canadian Journalism Review or the Columbia Review of Journalism, CNN, I forget who they were, called and wanted the details. And then you said, well, come over and tell the story on the podcast, on your podcast. Right. This is where people come when they have stories like that to tell. So Friday, that was a Friday where you got that that you were in the wrong room and it turned out you were let go no severance and it's a whole clusterfuck god uh and then i think it was like

monday or something you came over here to talk about it so okay so that was 150 then you came back for 241 yeah i don't remember that i'm hazy about that one 241 we kicked out the jams you were the oh that was kicking out the jams. You were the first person to come over and kick out the jams. That's 241. 241. Because we're at 401 now. Right.

And then you came back for 352. Oh, that was a mistake. Mike chats with Mark Hebbshire about his new podcast. So this is when you were just launching Hebbs and Sparks. That was 252. 352. I'm just doing math. So you wait a second. I'm having a 352, 48, 49. my math. So you wait a second.

I'm having a 352, 48, 49. That's 48 episodes in between? Yeah. My 48 episodes in between having me? Is that a record? Some kind of a record? John Gallagher. So we talked about John Gallagher.

Gallagher. He had just been over. Bob McAllister. Speaking of authors, he wrote a book. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Were you in his book? I didn't read the book Somebody said, not me, but somebody said

You're in the book I think Troy Burch has my copy I think I know that story So I'll let him tell that story Now I need to get that back so I can tell the story On my podcast Do you want to tell the Gallagher story? No, no, no

No, no, because this Okay, maybe you told it on episode three. No, no, because this is about me, Mike. You had me on to talk about me. It's about me. Is Gallagher coming halfway through? Is he going to,

did you leave the side door open? He's always welcome. Is he coming down? Is he going to crash the podcast? I gave Gallagher his own key anytime he wants. Marty York. Marty York,

my schoolboy, my schoolhood boyfriend. Okay, look me in the eyes right now. Marty York is intentionally playing the heel. Oh, yeah. in the eyes right now. Marty York is intentionally playing the heel. Oh yeah, always. Always. He doesn't believe what he's

tweeting. No, always. He's just trying to be antagonistic. For effect. Always. Marty for effect. Not that that forgives him, but what's his strategy there? The ten people who will continue to tolerate him will really, really like him? What he's doing is he's alienating the masses that love to consume

what he could potentially, the value he could potentially offer. Mike, did you call me in here to talk about Marty York? Marty York once wrote an article about me. Unbeknownst to me, he was comparing me with Earl McRae. I was on 590 doing a phone-in show, very successful, popular. Jeez, you know what? Back in those days, man, I think we had a 13, a 14 share. No kidding. We were big. And CJCL, the little fuckers, had Earl McRae, who they brought in from Ottawa, and they sat him down,

and he would do shows. The entire show would be about Gene Pitney, the singer. He'd go off the rails with stuff about a sport called Scrivener, which he had invented and written about. And he was a great writer. I really liked Earl's writing. He was terrific. But, you know, his show wasn't anywhere near as good as my show. Not even close. Not even close.

And eventually they just said... And he spoke to the younger generation. I don't know. Listen, the point of the matter was is that he wasn't a good sports talk show. He's a good sports caster, I guess. And he was good on, you know, he's a great writer. But I felt that bringing some writer along and putting him on the air and thinking that he could articulate verbally the way a professional trained broadcaster could was an affront to me and any other broadcaster. Ask guys like Jerry Forbes, who I worked with back in those days, Rob Cowan. When you bring in someone that has no experience behind the microphone at all

and say, we're giving you a talk show, talk sports, the other guy, like me, goes, I'll show him. We'll show him. Because I knew how to put a show together. I had good callers on. I had good guests on. His show wasn't as good. But how did Marty York come into this?

Marty York decided he was going to write an article for the Globe and he was going to compare me and Earl McRae he didn't tell me that he had already spoken to McRae and McRae had kicked the shit out of me with comments calling me a Bush leaguer industrial league, didn't know what I was talking about so he didn't tell me and then as he's doing the interview with me

and he's talking to me he says what do you think of Earl McRaeray and i'm like uh well you know he's got his own show and all that and i respect him as a writer but i'm a better broadcaster than him and then when i see it in print he had gone back to mccray and he wrote the story so that it was like mccray was kicking the crap out of me and then my comments about earl were pretty nice and you know i i thought but he you know he didn't include all of them and yeah he made up a story to And, you know, I thought, but he didn't include all of them. And yeah, he made up a story to get people, you know, upset. He did that kind of a thing. And he was underhanded

in the way he did it in report. If he would have been up front with me, he said, look, I've spoken to Earl. He said this about you or whatever. I'm doing a comparison between the two of you, but he didn't. He kind of sprung it on me like that.

And I didn't like that at all. TSN stealing the idea of off the record? Sure. you but he didn't he kind of sprung it on me like that and i i didn't like that at all tsn stealing the idea of off the record sure you opened up about that in episode 352 and now you're now you're going to be doing the 10 50 morning show of michael lansford no what a world we live no chance no chance of that happening at all uh whether you'll ever record with jim tattigan later i have questions from fans but this this is the one, the most common, most frequently asked question when I say, hey, Hep C's coming on,

what do you want to know? They all want to know if there's any chance you'll ever broadcast in any format, anywhere on the planet with Jim Taddy again. You never say never.

And I, there's no way that I would say this is not going to happen because I don't know. Because you're both alive. But I don't know what the future lies. I don't know. I don't know some guy comes along and says,

you know, I watched these guys when I was younger and they were great. I'm going to get them back together again. I want to sponsor something. I don't know. Probably not. But I have no idea. What do people want?

Well, people want the truth. But I feel like you're holding something back here. What do you want to know, Mike? Again. Ask it. Well, you want to know, Mike? Again. Ask it. Well, I'm getting there, Hebsey. This is Toronto Mike, not Hebsey on sports. No, I got it, but I'm just saying.

I'm getting there, my friend. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I'm going to launch my own podcast, Toronto Mike on sports. Fine. So you ask the question, and I'll answer it as best I can as the interview. Please do. I'm about to give you some gifts. Wonderful gifts. So it's coming right after this.

But I guess what I'm asking is, we all, guys my age who grew up in the GTA, I was talking to Down Goes Brown. You know this guy, Sean McIndoe? He's Down Goes Brown. I'm reading his new book, and I was just emailing him back and forth because I picked it up at the library.

Do you authors hate it when people get your book at the library? Do you authors hate it when people get your book at the library? Do you authors hate it? Because you're an author. Yeah, but my book's not out yet. But you will soon have this experience.

When my book comes out, then I'll be able to... Someone's going to spend, I don't know, $25 buying a nice hardcover of your book or whatever, and then I'm going to go put it on hold,

and then I'm going to walk a couple of blocks and pick it up. Does that at all upset you that I can do that? No, and here's why. The libraries actually buy the most books. It's the libraries that are buying the most.

Think about it. How many books does the TPL purchase? If I can get into the Toronto, just the Toronto Public Library. Right. They go, hey, this is a story about a guy who's from Canada, who lived in Toronto, first Canadian to win a gold medal at the Olympics. First disabled athlete to ever win

an Olympic gold medal. Not a Paralympic gold medal, an Olympic gold medal. Okay? The first disabled. Would you like a couple of copies for the Toronto Public Library? I'm hoping they're going to go,

yeah. Yeah, we'll take, I don't know, 50 copies for all of our branches, 100 copies. We'll take some I don't know, 50 copies for all of our branches, 100 copies. We'll take some Kindle copies, digital copies. Yeah, they'll need digital copies. We'll take them.

Oh, audio books. People like maybe there's an audio book. So yeah, I'm hoping that the Toronto Public Library is going to buy, you know, in whatever format, as many as possible. And then I'm hoping the Hamilton Public Library and the London Public Library. And then I'm hoping the Hamilton Public Library and the London Public Library. And then maybe the Ministry of Education goes, hey, you know what? This should be required reading for history for grade six history students. Since there was never anything written about this dude, only about Louis Cyr and Ned Hanlon, the rub runner who was a rower.

And as I learned from your buddy, Gere Joyce, the real money comes when this will inevitably, because of the subject matter, which we'll dive into soon, although you've already touched on it right there. But the subject matter is such that it's inevitable that there will be some kind of a movie. Yes. Based on your books. Absolutely. They will buy the rights to your book. 100%. And then I think, if Gare explained it, Jason Priestley will arrive at your door of a check

or something like that? No, I'm not interested in really Jason. I'd want someone else. I would take Jason Priestley, but yeah, I don't know. No, it's because he stars in Private Eyes,

which is the show based on Gare Joyce's book. But yeah, I mean, look, the idea of writing the book isn't to go, I hope somebody likes the story so much that they want to make a movie about it,

but let's face it. You want the book, you want people to enjoy it, and then you want them to go, that's a great story. And then maybe in your mind, you're thinking, geez, I wonder who would play the part of George Ordon? Who would play the part of his wife? I wonder if we could do this. Is that a good part of the story?

How old does George Ordon need to be for this movie based on your book? Well, in most biopics, you've got the younger version of Johnny Cash, and Johnny Cash is someone else, and then the older Johnny Cash, which is just the same actor, and he's got makeup on to make him look older. But usually the young

guy, like the young Forrest Gump, was not Tom Hanks, of course. He was like, whatever, 10 years old or 12 years old or something like that, right? The early Forrest. Jay Baruchel is your guy. Jay Baruchel. Lives in Toronto. Yeah, now I need someone who's blonde. I need someone who's about 5'6", 120 pounds or so. He's not a tall guy. He lives in Toronto. I need someone who's blonde. About 5'6", 120 pounds or so. He's not a tall guy.

I would need an actor who also has the body of a distance runner. Jay Baruchel. We'll talk offline about this. I can put you in touch with his PR. Sounds good. I did invite Jay Baruchel

on this show to be my guest. And his PR person took a polite pass. Jay's still at a reach. Do you want me to get his number? I don't know.

I'll get it. Yeah, because I went through... No, no, don't go through them. Go through him. I'll get you his number. You know what happened? Can I tell you how... I'll get you his contact.

I'll get you Jay Baruchel's contact. But for him, right? Not his people. Yeah, for him. Okay. Yeah, I'll get you Jay Baruchel's contact. But for him, right? Not his people. Yeah, for him. Okay. Yeah, I'll get you his contact. All right. And then you contact him and say, Jay, come for the afternoon.

So my friend Terry Hart was interviewing Jay. I know Terry very well. So Terry Hart's interviewing Jay Baruchel. Yep. Of course, she works for Rogers. She probably interviews a lot of big stars. Yeah, she does. And I know Jay lives in Toronto.

So to me, he's attainable. That's how cocky I am with this project here. So I said to Terry, do you got some contact info for Jay? I'd like to invite him on Toronto Mic'd. And she says, I dealt with his PR person, but here's her name and number and email, whatever. So I sent a note. She says that some other PR person from some book thing is handling this or whatever. Oh, no, she just did it for the book, and she shared it with his real people. that some other PR person from some book thing is handling this or whatever.

Oh no, she just did it for the book and she shared it with his real people. And they got back to me this morning to say that thanks for the invitation, but Jay Baruchel is going to take a pass. So there you go. I'm still like trying to figure out what's attainable, what's not. All right, so here's what you do.

Your friend, Tim Thompson. Yeah. Tim just did a fantastic video with Jay Baruchel about his love of the Montreal Canadiens and that. Tim loves Toronto Mike. Contact him and I'll bet you his endorsement of your show,

he will say to Jay, this guy's got a fantastic podcast and you really... Just don't tell PR, just come over. Right, of course. You'd be a fool not to come on. I'll pick you't tell PR to come over. Right, of course. You'd be a fool not to come on. Okay. I'll pick you up. We'll drive over. Right?

You'll do, you know, an hour or so, whatever. Nobody's going to know. Believe me, his publicist is not going to know. His publicist is going to go, you went on Toronto, Mike, without telling me?

You never do... Call Tim. He's a big fan. He's a super nice guy. I love this idea because Tim and I are buddies and he played hockey with my cousin. And that's organically. That's just tell Tim and Tim will go, oh, sure, no, he'll say. nice guy. I love this idea because Tim and I are buddies and he played hockey with my cousin. And that's organically.

Just tell Tim and Tim will go, oh sure, he'll say. No problem. I'd be more than happy to tell him what a great podcast it is. And you know what'll happen is Baruchel's going to listen to your podcast. He's going to listen to the Tom Wilson one. He's going to listen to this one. He's going to listen to the ones you've had and he's going to go, this guy's good. I've got to get on Toronto, Mike.

That's the way. Because all the stuff I've seen him do, and I like Terry Hart, but she's doing stuff for television. You know, it's different. It's soundbite stuff. It's not a long, deep dive for a couple of hours.

And it's always about the current project. Correct. That's what drives me crazy. Yes. He's got a book coming out, Jay Baruchel, about hockey or whatever.

That's what they will... Every one of your listeners will read that book. Every one of them will read that book. But none of them will read it unless they know about Jay Baruchel. They're not going to go, I'm not going to buy a book from some Hollywood, Montreal, Toronto transplant guy who's a Habs fan, but they are going to go, I'm going to buy a book of someone who was a guest on Toronto Mike.

Cause I heard them for a couple hours and they're so interesting. I've got to read their book. So I'm going to talk to Tim Thompson. So thank you so much for that. Uh, George Bell. So this is, oh yeah, I got to loop this book. Sold. I'm going to talk to Tim Thompson. Thank you so much for that. George Bell. Oh, yeah. I've got to loop this back really quick. I'm sorry. I just remembered. I'm in the middle of a Down Goes Brown thing about how we're exchanging emails.

Basically, long story short, Sportsline was a huge influence on Down Goes Brown. Loved Mark Hebbshire and Jim Taddy on Global Sportsline. Like me and like many, many others listening right now. Yes. So, of course, we just want to know,

was it a bad breakup? Like when you left Sportsline? No. Was there bad blood between you and Taddy? Nope. Not at all. Were you just, while you worked together, I'm going to use this expression

because another popular Toronto morning, not morning, I won't say that because I don't want too much detail. Don't do that. Use this expression. Don't do that. Give us names. Don't do that. Don't say another couple I can't name.

You make me name names. The expression is, were you not each other's cup of tea? I don't think that was it at all. I think when you spend 11 years with the same person and you have to perform part of that job is performing for your audience

and the other part of it now remember 10% of it is performing for your audience 90% of it is the rest of the day where you have to interact with this person as well and you're going over stories that should be and shouldn't be talked about and all those types of things and the other person happens to be the sports director the executive producer of the show the one that does all the budgets scheduling etc etc uh it's a difficult mix yeah because it's not equal and i think the viewer

wanted to see on the air equal. Jim and Mark, Mark and Jim, interchangeable, one and one A. One's having a good night, one might not be having a good night. When they're both having a great night, they're fabulous together. Unbelievable. You know, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, and that's what it was. It was very professional that way.

But unfortunately, I think people wanted to believe that Jim and I were absolute best friends. And that when we left global, we were together to watch all the sporting events and everything else in our lives. And we were there for the birth of each other's children. And we lived next door to each other or we shared the same apartment or stuff like that. And you can get that way. It's a bro thing. Bro, I love these two guys. I love these two guys.

Not this guy, but I don't like that guy. Nobody does that. Nobody says, well, I watch Martin Lewis because I like Gene. It's like Jesse and Gene. You love them both. You don't say, I love Jesse and I can't stand Gene. And then when Gene shows up doing a talk show on 640, for example, and Jesse's not there, it just... I feel like it's 640. 1010. Both, maybe?

No, he did Afternoons on 1010. He might have done 640 by himself. I don't think so. I have memories of Gene on Toxic 40. I'm going on his show. I'm going on his show. He's got a show? Oh, he did afternoons on 1010. He might have done 640 by himself. I have memories of Gene on Toxic 40. I'm going on his show. He's got a show? Him and Brother Jake. I'm going on their show on Vancouver Radio. That's amazing, by the way.

So we're talking about, the perception is that Jim and I are best friends, and when we deliver the sports to you, you're our best friend, we're your best friends, and we might come over and knock on the door one day like Natasha Stanishev's.

Hi, we're here to watch the game and we brought McCain's super fries. No, you... That was us. You know that. Maybe Jim and Mark will show up and they'll come in our basement and they'll do their show

which is like being in the basement with sports fans. It's 2018. You've been off Sportsline for how many decades now, right? I left Sportsline in 1995 to take a job doing the Leafs and the Argos and morning sports on Q107 with Jesse and Gene and Brother Jake in the Q Morning Zoo. Yeah. But I think if you go back to episode 112, all that's in there, though.

Yeah, it is in there. Okay, so that's a long time since you last worked with tatty so in all that time there was never an opportunity where both of you said hey this makes sense to do this together because of course as i say frequently on trauma mike uh nostalgia is a very potent drug okay there was one and i thought it was going to happen and i never heard back so you can draw your own conclusions well was this uh something you guys were going to do yourself I never heard back. So you can draw your own conclusions. Well, was this something you guys were going to do yourself? No, no.

I had no idea and he had no idea. And someone said, look, I'd like to make this happen. And I said, listen, if it's good with him, I'm good with him. Okay. So you were down and he obviously wasn't. I don't know if he was or wasn't or it was a

budget thing or whatever happened, but the preliminary stage was, and this was a few years ago, we're going to get Jim and Mark back together again. And again, I don't know if Jim ever heard about this. I did from the guy who was going to be responsible and Mark back together again. And again, I don't know if Jim ever heard about this. I did, from the guy who was going to be responsible for it all.

Was it Frank D'Angelo? No. No, it wasn't Frank D'Angelo. You, Taddy, and maybe Bill Waters. I don't know. No, it wasn't. But again, someone said, geez, wouldn't it be great? We watched them all those years together.

I wonder what it would be like if you put them back together again. Yeah. I had no idea what the format was going to be or anything like that, but I was intrigued by it. Let's put it that way. When you guys get the Order of Canada together,

that'll be like, sort of like when the Barenaked Ladies performed at the gym. Did you know that Stephen Page is a cousin of Steve Simmons? Sure do. Yes, I do. I have to show you that.

I know what congregation he went to and everything. Okay, Jewish geography, my friend. Jewish geography. Why do you think, hey, listen, why do you think one of my sponsors is a Pantsers delicatessen on the show? Because I've been going there for like 50 years. That was a staple in North York.

Sunday nights, corned beef. Pantsers, that's where John Candy goes. That's where Geddy Lee goes. That's where Gary Weinrib used to go. But John Candy wasn't Jewish. No, he wasn't. He just liked... I'm not Jewish. No, he liked the food there. Nothing's better than a deli

smoked meat sandwich. Yeah, with a dill pickle and some coleslaw maybe. Nothing better than that. Right. And now I'm really hungry, so we gotta move on here. Okay, we also talked about Kelly Gruber, George Bell. You then subsequently had this. I'm really hungry, so we've got to move on here. We also talked about Kelly Gruber, George Bell. You then subsequently had this. I'm going to play it. Hi, I'm George Bell. You listen

to Toronto Mike. So you got that for me at a golf tournament? I got that from my buddy George. George was the biggest pain in the ass for years, and for some reason, I don't know what it was, I would challenge him. He'd say, get out of here, get out of here. And I'd say, nope, we're not leaving. He'd say, I'm going to, I'll challenge him. He'd say, get out of here, get out of here. And I'd say, nope, we're not leaving.

He'd say, I'm going to, I'll hit you. I'd say, you go right ahead, man. I'll sue. And then he'd smile and go, okay, let's do the interview. Because he was like that. He tested you. And if you backed down, he had you. And if you didn't back down, he liked you.

And he's still like that today. He's still like that today. I like him. So thanks for getting that clip. Sure, sure. No problem. And then he came back that today. He's still like that today. I like him. So thanks for getting that clip. Sure, sure. No problem. And then you came back to kick out the sports jams.

This is an interesting side story. That was episode 356. So you came back to kick out the sports jams. And my number one jam was OK Blue Jays, Keith Hampshire. Yes.

And then the next day, I found myself talking to Keith Hampshire for the first time ever. John Donabee invited me to this like inside it was the weirdest thing all these old radio vets were in the room and i met a bunch of people that came on like bill king was there ah roger ashby was there yeah uh he is now radio legend radio legend so and keith hampshire's there i told him i said i was just recording with

mark hampshire and okay blue jay was number one, and he seemed honored by this fact. And then I said, I would love for you to come over. And you know what? He came over. Yeah. So there's my, that was a funny timing.

Well, listen, after 401 episodes now, are you still flabbergasted when someone agrees to come on your show? The guy who sings OK Blue Jay's is coming on your show. But I mean, come on. Of course.

Listen, but think of the famous people you've had on here. If you were at the beginning to say, well, what are my chances of the guy who sang the OK Blue Jays song, the guy who started Junk House, Blackie and the Rodeo Kings, and Lee Harvey Osmond, and you know, I mean, and you're going to and out of all those, you're going to go. Boberg.

Right. The guy I was most worried about was the guy who sang OK Blue Jays. Come on. Well, when you put it that way. Okay, so I want to thank... So much to cover here. You know, all that was just intro stuff. We're an hour deep into this.

I hope you're okay, Mark, because I'm going to now give you some gifts. You're going to feed me. And thank some partners. By the way, okay, on that note, feeding you,

a little ambiance music here. Oh, excellent. It sounds French, right? But it's Italian, isn't it? Wait until it comes in a bit. Oh, my man. I know it does. That part's so fun.

Oh, yeah. Okay, got it. Yeah, it's very similar, the French sound. You've got some harp there, and you've got some squeeze box there. I like that. Mama's got a squeeze box. Daddy doesn't sleep at night. So this is because I'm going to give you,

and it's not in front of you because we came straight from Hebzion Sports, so I didn't want to take it out of the freezer, but I have a Palma Pasta lasagna for you. All right. Do you have a backpack with you? It's big, so I hope we can get in there. I'm sure we can, but we'll get that. I took public transit here.

You want me to take Palma Pasta back on public transit? It's amazing. It is amazing. Palma Pasta, they're in Mississauga and Oakville. They have four locations. I'm most excited about the new Palma's Kitchen, though. Mavis and Burnhamthorpe is like that nearest major intersection, but go find the address by going to palmapasta.com.

Hot and fresh food, a retail store, seating, there's coffee, there's pizza, everything you want. Get your event catered by Palma Pasta. They're Mississauga's best fresh pasta in italian food and hebsey now has nice scene hebsey now has his own uh palma pasta lasagna to take home with him so enjoy that but i have more for you you lucky son of a gun sorry beautiful you mentioned already, in fact, I'm going to tell that

I saw you cherry picking the selection of Great Lakes beer. Yes. Because what, tell us your favorite Great Lakes beer. Well,

my favorite Great Lakes beer is Red Leaf, but your guys at Great Lakes didn't supply you with cans of Red Leaf. You got all the other. It might be my fault though.

I actually, I picked up this batch myself and I might have missed it. Well, great. If you can get me Red Leaf, then I'll leave this lovely batch here and i'll but i can do that yeah i can do that great okay so because that's what i like when i go into like when i go into my places that have i the first thing red leaf it's the red it's fabulous and and all their other stuff is good it's good it's five stars. Red Leaf is six stars. Why? So if I can have my favorite, Mike,

I would like the Red Leaf from Great Lakes Brewery. But yes, leave this with me. I will get you six cans. Yeah.

Luckily, this is unlike most guests who they leave and I never see them again. Yes, you'll be seeing me. I'm going to see you Monday. Or is it Tuesday? We have to talk about that.

I think it will be a special Hebsey on Sports on Tuesday morning. But I will see you Monday. Or is it Tuesday? We have to talk about that. I think we'll do a special Hebsie on Sports on Tuesday morning. But I will see you early next week and I will have six Red Leaf for you. Enjoy that.

Of course, of course, Great Lakes Brewery is a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. And as you know, Mark, 99.9% of all Great Lakes beer

remains here in Ontario. I once said it all remained here in Etobicoke, and I'm not sure those numbers are exactly correct, but it definitely remains here in Ontario. GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And I want to give everybody listening $10, but it's not really from me. It's from Paytm.

So if you go to paytm.ca and download their amazing app where you manage all of your bills in one spot, and when you make your first bill payment, there's a place for promo code, stick in Toronto Mike, all one word, and they'll give you $10 in Paytm cash right away. This is really like amazing. I get all my family members to do it because they're handing out, they're essentially handing out $10 bills. You can turn around and spend this $10 on a gift card in their rewards section right away, or you can apply it to another bill.

This is money you can use, money in your pocket. So $10 in Paytm cash when you sign up with the referral code or promo code, I think they call it. TorontoMike. So that's Paytm.ca. Census design and build. Wait a second. Yeah.

Paytm, that's your company, right? Paytm is Toronto Mike. I make that joke. Do you want to know what it really stands for? Here's a fun fact. Do you want to know what PayTM stands for? PayThru Mobile. That's what it is, but I always think it's PayTron. I like that.

Census Design and Build, they provide architectural design, interior design, and turnkey construction services across the GTA. To learn more about the possibilities for your home, call them at 416-931-1422 or go to censusdesignbuild.ca today to schedule your zoning and cost project feasibility study.

So thanks so much for your support. I have left a couple off because here's a fun segment. Chambers Brothers. What a great song this is. I love how this song just keeps going. I always think it's too short and it ends up being whatever. Time. Just keep going.

Yeah, just do that over and over again. Time has come today. Chambers Brothers. Awesome. Remember the time. Hebsey, remember the time hebsey remember the time on this day in 1963 doctor who yeah debuts on british television and it debuted 80 seconds later than it was scheduled there you know they're uh i don't know how they time things on the bbc over there but a very specific it was 80 seconds delayed

this first episode ever of doctor who. Do you know why? No, I don't. John F. Kennedy had just been assassinated the previous day and there was a news update about it so it delayed the first ever episode of Doctor Who by 80 seconds because it was on this day, sorry, on yesterday was the anniversary

of the assassination of J.J. November 22nd, that's my son's birthday. So if John F. Kennedy was assassinated at around 1.30 Central Standard Time, 2.30 Eastern, it would have been about 8.30 at night in England

right around when this time the show was starting and that's when they got the bulletin that Kennedy had been assassinated. So then now we're in now with the next day, the 23rd, and this is when

Doctor Who makes its debut. So this song always scared the S out of me, scared the shit out of me, because it would come on after Polka Dot Door or something on TV Ontario, and I was really young, and it was really, really, really, really, really scary. But remember the time is brought to you by Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair.

They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years. Hebsey, you remember when you'd go to Sears, and you'd go to Sears and get your watch battery replaced or get your watch band fixed or whatever at their watch and jewelry repair center? Well, that was fast time. So Sears disappeared. Oh, it's the same company? Same company. They've been doing it for over 30 years. They just couldn't use their own name.

Interesting. Yeah. same company they've been doing it for over 30 years they just couldn't use their own name interesting yeah so so it's like one of these stories where when you when you learn that they are what was sears uh watch repair people are like yeah i used to go there all the time that is these guys and here's a exclusive deal that they apparently they never do this but they're going to give you 15 off your watch battery installation if you mention toronto mic'd so go to fast time watch repairrepair.com. Find out a location near you. They have a new one that just opened up in Richmond Hill.

Get in there. Mention Toronto Mic'd. Save yourself some money. And again, over 30 years experience watch and jewelry repair. I used to live in Richmond Hill. Right near the Hillcrest Mall where that very place is. So I was going to say small world,

but you also lived in Dundas. Yes, I did. You've been all around the GTA, all around. Hebsey on sports went to number one. Did it go to number one overall or just for sports? No, no, no, no. It went number one for sports and recreation. That's one of the many categories in iTunes and a lot of these, you know, because you're searching because podcasting is narrow casting, right? Technical ones, geek ones, cooking shows, whatever, political shows, sports shows. So there's all these different categories. So this is in a category called sports and recreation. So we're up against the sports podcast.

called sports and recreation so we're up against the sports podcast so all the radio shows that that have podcasts because all of them they just turn them into podcasts easiest thing in the world just to edit the commercials out right that's all you do and then if you've got some guys like colin coward actually has the best of where they actually edit the three-hour show down to 45 minutes and give you the best of in in case you don't want to listen to the whole thing right so it's uh yeah it's it's it's a very different that way but okay so of course yes this is the category sports which is a very competitive and recreation right it's very now like moose moose hunting is recreation so there's a moose hunting there's a moose and deer hunting podcast right where they eat raw meat and stuff like cornhole or cornhole they talk about stuff

like that and that's considered to be now No, the Cornhole podcast is not... I don't think it's in the top 100. You should start one. But there's all... This is now inside Facebook. We didn't do that on the air. That was a conversation before. If you're looking up...

If you want to find a great sports podcast, you would look under the sports and recreation category. Right. But what I'm saying is, what a competitive category. Yeah. Because people are like, I'm in the category. I couldn't find a really good fit for Toronto Mike. They don't have a podcast where a guy invites interesting GTA famous people.

What's Mark Maron's current events? He's an interviewer. Is he comedy? I've got to find out where he's not. Yeah, what's his? Because he interviews people, and so do you. The category I'm in. He invites them to his garage.

You invite them to your basement. What's the difference? I need to find out what the fuck Mark Maron's category is. All right, well, there you go.

But I'm in the category called personal journals with like This American Life and stuff. This is where I am. Oh, no,

No, Mrs. American Life isn't your show. That's the wrong, you're in the wrong category. So I'm in personal journals because I felt like, well,

I chose, yeah, I'm in the wrong room, but I chose the room like an idiot, but I got to find... Can't you get out of it? Of course, of course, because You're in the wrong room. I felt like, well, I chose, yeah, I'm in the wrong room, but I chose the room like an idiot. But I got to find, if there's a better, of course, of course, because I just edit the XML file. But I've been in it so long now, I feel like it's my home and that's where I always kind

of pop. But you're in sports and rec, which is really competitive. Yeah. And I just, I mean, I'm biased here and I declare the bias because we do it here. the bias because we do it here. But that is incredibly impressive. And I just cannot believe that you as an independent have achieved that level of success. Well, here's the way I look at it. Two things. First of all, most of my competitors are radio shows. So if most of the people that are listening to name the show, Jay and Dan, whatever, their radio or their television

shows and what happens is that they're getting numbers on their podcasts but if it was originally a radio show they're getting 99 of the people that are actually listening to the radio show the ones that miss the radio show might tune into the podcast i don't know how many of them but this is strictly a podcast mike there's no television show there's no radio show but i can think of huge enterprises i'll just pick one randomly 31 thoughts 31 thoughts is a podcast, Mike. There's no television show. There's no radio show. But I can think of huge enterprises. I'll just pick one randomly. 31 Thoughts. 31 Thoughts is a podcast only,

but I think they release their shows on Thursdays. And by then, we've had huge momentum with the Monday drop of our podcast. I know. And also,

it's only about hockey. It's only about hockey. Our listeners, for the most part, are more well-rounded. If they want to get into just a hockey podcast deep dive, yeah. But if they want what's going on in other stuff, they're not going to listen to 31 Thoughts to find out what I think about Tiger and Phil.

Okay, but I will just say about 31 Thoughts, they advertise that podcast on Hockey Night in Canada. Look what they've got. Look at their platform. Hebsey on Sports. Rogers. Do we even have a billboard anywhere in this? Can we buy a billboard?

Does anyone want to donate a billboard, promote Hebsey on Sports? But that's amazing. The success is amazing. So I just want to say congratulations because it's all you. You script it. Well, some of it's you too because you're part of it. Right, but I don't think anyone's subscribed. I don't think.

But they like our chemistry. If anyone subscribes to Hebsey on Sports because I'm on it, please drop me a note because I would love to know. No, but they subscribe. They say they've told me they subscribe because they like our chemistry. If anyone subscribes to Hebsey on Sports because I'm on it, please drop me a note because I would love to know. No, but they subscribe. They say they've told me they subscribe because they like our chemistry. And if that's one of the reasons or the main reason or a portion of the reason that they like our chemistry, I'm good for that.

I'm sold. Until someone says to me, Hebsey, get rid of Toronto Mike and I'll listen, which hasn't happened. I have a mute button. And I don't think it will, then we'll be okay. So no one is yet complaining. But it only takes one person to say that? No. Well, you know what happened. I have a mute button. And I don't think it will, then we'll be okay. So no one is yet complaining. But it only takes one person to say that?

No, well, you know what that is. That's the silent, that's the vocal minority. That's the, ah, we don't, yeah. Everyone, if people don't say anything, that means they like it. If they're listening and they don't comment, that means they like it. Good.

They like it. Good, good, good. I like it. I would ask you now, if you don't mind, sharing a story about a former Maple Leaf player and coach who recently passed away. In fact, I believe it was earlier this week. Yeah, yeah. Dan Maloney.

Dan Maloney. He was 68 years old. He had had some problems with the law. He had had problems with alcoholism. There was no reason given for his death. There is no cause of death. No one from the family or anything has made a statement. And I can only assume when that happens that it's something bad. It's something bad,

and the family or whoever is not in a position where they want to reveal that information. But anyway, he had had problems back in June. He had been arrested. I believe he was arrested. I think he was pepper sprayed. If not, he was forcibly confined by the police. After grabbing a female bartender at, I believe it was a Montana's up in Barrie, eyewitness accounts say that he was incredibly drunk and he was disorderly and it took the cops a while to subdue him and stuff like that. That was back in June. Prior to that, he had been involved in several incidents. Alcoholism was a problem. And famously, in 1975, he blindsided and sucker-punched Toronto Maple Leaf, Ryan Glennie.

He was playing for Detroit, Dan Maloney. Sucker-punched him. And then, and I was at the game, the sickest thing I had ever seen. Glennie was down on the ice, unconscious, lying face-first on the ice after Maloney had sucker-punched him and knocked him down. I think he elbowed him in the head. And while Glennie was lying there, Maloney threw down his gloves,

pounced on Glennie, and lifted up his body, a rag doll, and slammed his face into the ice twice or three times. And the whole gardens, Maple Leaf, could not believe it. No one came to Glennie's rescue. I don't think Tiger Williams was on the ice at the time.

And I think had you come over the boards, you're up for a big suspension. I think. But anyway, Maloney slammed Glennie to the ice three or four, two or three times. Wow. I'd never seen anything like that. And at that moment, at that very moment, I hated Dan Maloney. It's barbaric. More than I hated Dave Schultz of the Flyers.

More than I hated Terry O'Reilly of the Bruins, more than I hated any of these tough guys, these guys that used to beat up Maple Leaf players, which happened often. And then eventually he was charged with assault. He was acquitted. He paid a $100 fine. He was told by the NHL that he could not play in Toronto

for two seasons. That was part of his suspension, I guess, and that was the only part of it. He couldn't go to Toronto. And then ironically, Harold Ballard, the owner of the Leafs, thought the Leafs were a bunch of wimps and wanted a guy like Dan Maloney

and was willing to pay heavily to get him from Detroit to help the McDonald's and the Sittlers and the Boreas-Salmings and the Internables who were being pushed around by the Flyers and the Bruins and all these teams. And so he made General Manager Jim Gregory

make an outrageous trade, outrageous, giving up Errol Thompson, who had scored 43 goals in a year, and two first-round draft picks, first-rounders. So like, you know, ninth and tenth overall kind of guys, and Thompson and a second-rounder to get Dan Maloney and a second-round pick. Wow. And I had said things about Dan Maloney on the radio. I said, I don't like this guy. I think the Leafs got fleeced. He didn't like what he had heard on

the radio. And he confronted me several times and told me he was going to do physical harm, told me he was going to poke my eyes out if he ever heard me say anything bad about him or the Leafs again. And he was my nemesis. And then he ended up being assistant and a coach of the Leafs. And he hated me even more. And I couldn't stand him because of what he did to Brian Glenn. When I was a kid in 1975, I couldn't get over it. I didn't care when he came to the Leafs. I didn't like the man. And he was intimidating.

And he just died. So the first thing I thought of was, well, he wasn't very nice to me. I didn't like him. You know, it's terrible. I don't wish death on anyone. But he was threatening to you. He would do the gesture, the neck. But he was threatening to you. He was threatening. He would do the gesture,

the neck-slashing gesture to you. He would see me, and he would look at me, and he would just take his finger and run it across his throat, a throat-slashing gesture, and then point to me, kind of a thing like that.

And that threat doesn't come across as an empty threat because you've witnessed him assault a man. Like, you've seen that he doesn't have any governance. He took Brian Glennie. I don't know if there's video anywhere. I didn't even look. I don't know. I don't even know if the game was telecast. It must have been because it was at

Maple Leaf Gardens. So it must have been. But whether that, whether they caught that on isolation, whether there was a camera that caught that on the replay or just a portion of it, I'm here to tell you it happened right in front of me. It was disgusting. It was brutal. It was sickening.

Not only did he sucker punch him, but while the man was down, face down on the ice, defenseless, he grabbed him and threw and picked him up. And then after the game, when they asked him about it, he was very flippant. He said, oh, I was just trying to help him up. So, yeah, I did yeah. See, that to me that's clearly not hockey anymore.

So if that would have happened to you, if that happens tonight in the Leaf game and you see a member of the Columbus Blue Jackets do that to a Leaf player, is that guy not going to be public enemy number one to you? That player? But when he became a Leaf, because we overpaid

for him, obviously. Oh, my God. Errol Thompson. I mean, that's more than we gave up for Phil Kessel. Errol Thompson and two first-round draft picks. And a second. Yeah, it's more than we gave up for Phil Kessel. Two and a second.

So there's three guys that Detroit wasn't very good at drafting. I mean, not that the Leafs... Oh, yeah. It's not like you traded Steve Eisenman. But I'm telling you that had the Leafs drafted and been reasonable draft, but they didn't, of course, because by that time, I think Punch Imlach was the GM or Jim Gregory was on his way out. And Punch Imlach was the guy who traded Lanny McDonald

because he was Daryl Sittler's friend. And because Sittler wouldn't take a trade because Sittler had a no-cut contract, no-trade contract, so they traded McDonald instead. And Sittler ripped the sea off his jersey. It was such a clusterfuck, that team. Man. Ballard, oh my God.

You just reminded me to get Stelic back in here for more Ballard stories. He had Red Kelly, he had Roger Nilsson. You had a radio show, right? Yeah. On 590, and you would... Number one radio show in Toronto. That was Toronto's most listened to sports presentation.

That's what it was. McCown was doing television. McCown was doing Sportsline on television at the time. Isn't it funny how these worlds intersect like this? Amazing. And okay, so I just thought it's interesting because when somebody dies, we have a tendency to don't speak ill of the dead, if you will. Culturally,

we, and I'm not, it's just interesting to hear real talk about somebody who... He scared me. He scared me. I was worried that he was going to hit me. He was a big, big guy. He was big, big hands. Big, big guy. And he had that square jaw and that look. And all I thought about was, what if he does to me what he did to Brian Glenn?

Sure, that's what I'm saying. What if he took my hand and slammed me again and I saw him get physical? In fact, I'm pretty sure I saw him get physical with a couple of Globe and Mail reporters and a cameraman. And I'm going to tell you why. There was a time there where the Globe was banned from the Maple Leaf Gardens dressing rooms. I think they tried to ban them from entering the building. And Bill Houston was one of them. Al Strachan might have been one, any Globe photographer. But I think because Nick Luck was the coach, I'm pretty sure, and Jerry McNamara, I think, was the GM by this time. I'm pretty sure that Maloney, who was Nick Luck's assistant coach,

was the one that physically removed these guys. Man, he was a thug. So, of course, I would echo your sentiments that we didn't wish him dead. In fact, if anything, you just wish he'd get help, right? Get some therapy and get some help for your anger issues. Maybe there was other things underlying there. He was an NHL player

and he was an NHL coach, but he was a human being and he was a very intimidating, rough, from a different era and he made me feel very uncomfortable and I feared for my safety

in a lot of ways. I mean, you know, I would travel with the team sometimes too, and you know, the guy would come up to you and he'd bump you or he'd just stare at you and turn you cold. And nobody else wanted to deal with me because of Maloney.

Like he'd go, don't you even talk to that motherfucker. Yeah, you can't do your job. Yeah, don't even talk to him. And if it was today and it happened, what was I going to do? I'm going to go to the Professional Hockey Broadcasters Association and complain about him? I'm going to go to Ballard? what was I going to do? I'm going to go to the Professional Hockey Broadcasters Association and complain about him? I'm going to go to Ballard? What am I going to do?

I'm going to go to Ballard and say, hey, he's talking to me that way? I'm going to go to the police and I'm going to file assault charges or threatening, uttering threats? What am I going to do? Didn't Bob McKenzie, a little later, I guess, McKenzie, didn't he file assault charges against, who was it again? Do you remember this story?

No, I don't. People go listen to the Bob McKenzie episode. You can't do that. You can't just, you're not in the arena. Somebody, Milbury,

not Milbury. Well, somebody said. I had a running with Milbury. I had a running with Milbury. Do you want to tell me the Milbury story real quick? Well, the Milbury one was simple.

This is the Milbury one was simple. Okay. I'm on a deadline for sports line. Boston's playing Edmonton in the 1990 Stanley Cup final. In the opening game, they went to three or four overtimes the lights went out twice. Peter Klima scored at 118 in the morning

in the fourth overtime. He had been sitting on the bench since 8 o'clock at night he had been benched in the first period by John Muckler and then Muckler I think it was the third overtime said get out there and Klima scored. So that was game one in Boston. In the second game Boston got their asses kicked.

I think it was eight to three. They just got hammered. The fans booed them off the ice. And now the game's over, and I've got maybe 20 minutes to get some clips from Millberry, get some clips from a player or two, do a stand-up, edit it, and get it up on the satellite back to Toronto for Sportsline

because it's on live at 11.30. So I'm on a tight deadline, right? And they just got their asses kicked and they went off the ice in shame and they had stuff thrown at them and booed the Boston fans. So now they're in the dressing room and we're waiting for Milbury to come out and I got to ask him a question. I got to get something from this guy. And the first question is a local reporter.

They always do this. The local reporters get the first crack, right? So a local reporter, it's a young lady, Alice Cook is her name, from Channel 4. Gee, Mike, that was a tough loss tonight. Do you think Reggie will be okay? Do you think so-and-so will be okay for the next game? Or something like that.

And he's like, well, yeah, you know. And then the next question is from another local reporter. And it's like, gee, Mike, that was a real tough loss. And, you know, you guys played pretty well in Edmonton. You think you'll be able to bounce back. And now I can't wait anymore. I can't wait. So before he even asks for the next question, I blurt out,

Mike, is your team humiliated in there? And he looks sort of between the cameras because he doesn't know who's saying it. And he sees me and he goes, fuck off. That's a stupid fucking question and you're a stupid fucking reporter. Now there's silence. Everyone is looking at me. And I go, well, you're a stupid fucking reporter. Now there's silence. Everyone is looking at me and I go, well, you're a stupid fucking coach. And then he goes, that's it. And he just, I think he answered one more question.

And then somebody else asked a question that was a really stupid question, like had nothing to do with anything. And he said, that's it, I'm gone. And he like shoved the microphones away and was gone. And now everyone's looking at me. Like I ruined the post press conference and I look at them and I go, you just got, you all just got your lead story. It's not the game.

You just got your lead. The coach came out and he was so mad that he told me to F off. Come on. That was the story. That was what everyone was talking about. Did you hear what Milbury said? Did you hear him say, and this is 1990, this is going out live,

not live, it wasn't live, but some places ran it like just, you know, they bleeped it or whatever and they ran it. We ran it as it was. We ran it because that's what he said. So on Global Sportsline, you dropped F-bombs? I'm pretty sure. I think, I don't know. No, no, no. You're not too sure. No, no,-bombs? I think... I don't know.

No, no, no. You're not too sure on that one. No, I think it was the Edmonton station. One of the stations ran it. They let it run. Something happened. They either didn't get the edit in or they turned it around quickly.

Oh, by accident. Something happened. And then the headline in the Edmonton paper was, he said what? With a big question mark. But that was me. And I needed to get an answer from Mike Milbury that wasn't, gee, Mikey, gee, Mikey.

Mike, you guys just lost 8-3 at home. You're humiliated. What's your team feeling like in there? But he didn't want to answer it, and he told me to F off. Anyway, he apologized a couple days later, and everything was fine. But the point is, in the heat of the battle, sometimes you've got to get that stuff. You're a reporter.

I'm on deadline. I can't wait around for nonsense. I want my clip. I need to find out what Milbury's thoughts were. Then I can go to the Leaf players and get a clip from them. Hey, or not the Leaf players, sorry, the Edmonton players. See, now I'm thinking the Bob McKenzie run-in might have been Esposito, maybe. Could have been.

Did you have any run-ins with Esposito? I did, of course. And he sued me. Do you want to tell that story? This is why we need to have you on Toronto Mic every month, I'd say, to extract. Did I not tell you the story

of how he sued me on the radio? Remind me. Yeah, do it again. He didn't show up. He didn't show up. He's supposed to do an interview. Oh, no. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Today, I thought you meant you told me a story like in a previous episode and I was trying to pull it out of my brain. Yeah, you told me. We've been recording a long time. He said that I had, you know.

Of course. You just told me. I am paying attention, everybody. So yes, Phil Esposito did some. Next question. Scott Moore was in here recently. Scott Moore. I think I could call that recently, right?

Yeah, yeah. Scott, that was a good episode, Scott. Thank you. That was a good episode. He was lying between his teeth, but it was a good episode. Do you want to point out the lies? No, no, no. He's coming back again. Manny, Manny. December 7th, he. Thank you. That was a good episode. He was lying between his teeth, but it was a good episode. Do you want to point out the lies? He's coming back again.

December 7th, he comes back here. I think he intimated on that show that he's got some great story about whatever kind of a thing. He's full of shit. I feel like the story was something like you got fired so Jody Vance could get the gig. This is how I think it might have gone down,

but you'll tell me in a minute. But first, let me just set it up by saying that I asked Scott Moore. He said he's got a story for his book. He said he's saving the Hep C firing story for his book. And now that I have you on this show, I know we talked about this in Hep C and Spores, but you never talked about it here.

For the record, what is this story that Scott Moore is going to put in his book about you being fired? You'll have to ask him when he's on the show next, okay? There's nothing to put in a book, again, unless he's got some story that I don't know about, which, of course, is entirely possible. Because he had it glint in his eye.

I looked in his eyes when he said it. There was a great hems he said. It's called a tease, Mike. It's called a tease in the business. He wants you to come back. He manipulated you on that whole one. Okay, so I did. He got you to bite because you were so interested

in the deep dive and all that. And so interested. And really, it's the first and maybe the last time that you will ever get as high a ranking executive in the television sports business with inside information. The trick is to get them when they have a week left. Correct. Your timing was exquisite. But I'll tell you this right now. This is what happened scott moore did

not want to take any more chances with mark hepscher he didn't want to take any chances because because what happened was when will chamberlain died and mark hepscher referred to his 20 000 conquests on the air i don't think scott moore liked that when pain stewart got in a plane and was never heard from again and Mark Hemsher was the one on the air talking about it and stuff like that I don't think he liked that maybe a sponsor called maybe his boss called I don't know but what happened was did you make a joke about Payne Stewart no okay but when my contract was up there was a specific time period there was a it was six months prior to the expiration of the contract where we could go in and negotiate either an extension or if we did negotiate an extension it was essentially a six-month um um waiting not

waiting period um notice in other words we're not going to renew your contract but but here's the six-month notice right so you've got now six months to find yourself another job when this one's over with and there had been a promise and we were supposed to meet at the six-month thing, and we didn't meet. Scott was off doing something, because he was the supervising producer of content, so he wasn't sitting in an office all day. He was off doing figure skating, Blue Jays baseball,

Grizzlies basketball, all that stuff that CTV had, and CTV was our boss at the time. It wasn't Rogers Sportsnet, It was CTV Sportsnet. So whatever he's going to tell you, yeah, look, do I lose any sleep over it? No. I think Scott is a fantastic executive. I don't like the way he handled my exit from there.

But how many people can honestly say, I like the way I was let go. I like the way they didn't renew my contract. I like the way we parted ways. No one is going to say that. But I can tell you this right now. The guy that he had hired as my boss, and he'll probably tell you this, it was a mistake. He made a mistake when he hired that guy and then made him my boss. I thought Scott was going to be

my boss. When Scott hired me, I believed Scott was going to be my boss. And I wanted him to be, I wanted to work for Scott, but I didn't. I ended up working for another guy that Scott had hired who had no business being in the job, knew nothing about sports and only wanted Sportsnet to overtake TSN doing what TSN does. And I said to him in our first meeting, we're not going to beat TSN doing what they do. The only way we beat them is if we do something that they don't do. And we do it better. We do something else better. Not what they do because they've already got a head start.

They had a 15-year head start. Anyway, and from there, I lasted a year. I had a two-year deal and there was supposed to be a negotiation halfway through. Anyway, so yeah, that's what happened there. And as far as Scott goes, look, he basically said, we're not renewing your contract.

And he didn't want to put me back on the air. And my agent said, oh, no, there's no way. You can't do that to him. He's got to be able to be able to go back on the air and say he's leaving and say goodbye to his audience. And God didn't want to do that. And my guy insisted. Because that damages someone's reputation. You can't be on there and all of a sudden you're not there. And you know what happens. If you're not there anymore, management's not going to say why. Well, he parted ways and whatever. They're not going to tell you

why that guy's not on anymore. That guy should get, or that girl should get a chance to say goodbye to the audience. It's been a pleasure serving you. I enjoyed it. I'm moving on to other things. Whatever the case was. So that's how I left Sportsnet. Whether he wanted Jody Vance to take the job,

maybe. It's quite possible. Whether he was looking for an out or something like that, or things didn't work, maybe. But I can tell you right now, he didn't like the relationship I had with my boss. And I'm sure my boss had gone to him saying, I can't work with this guy, Hebcher. Same way I was going, I can't work with this guy. So now you're the boss, and it comes down to two people. It comes down to the executive or the talent and you choose the executive and you say to the talent, you're gone. And then three months later you say to the executive who you had kept, you're gone. And maybe you thought, you know what? I might've fired the wrong guy. And if Scott Moore admits to that, I'd feel okay. Maybe that'll be in the book. Maybe it'll be.

Maybe that'll be the whole chapter. I fired the wrong guy. You fired the wrong guy. That'll be the title of the chapter. You fired the wrong guy, and he should have kept him. And I don't know. And who knows? I might still be there.

I don't know. You know who else? We already mentioned him, too, which is funny. But you know who else had a bad firing by Scott Moore? George Strombolopoulos. Yeah, we didn't mention him yet, though. Oh, you haven't gotten him yet? He's gone radio silent,

though, on this issue. When you're in a position like Scott's, you're not going to make friends. You're going to make friends with the people that you hire and keep and foster and mentor. Sure. But at the same time, you're going to make a lot of enemies. In that position, you fire a lot of people, you're going to make enemies. You're going to have to let Paul Romanek go. He's your friend. You've got to let him go.

You're the one to pull the trigger. That's your job. Not an enviable job. It takes a certain type of person with a real thick skin who can sleep at night after having to tell friends, people that he's close with, people whose weddings he was at and whose homes he was at, whose babies he held to say, you're out. You're right. You're right. You're right. And the guy I was referring to is actually Tim Thompson,

who had a sour exit. I worked with Tim. I worked with Tim at Headline Sports, and I worked with him at Sportsnet. Is he a... Worked with him at Sportsnet. How is he as a colleague? Oh, as a colleague?

Oh, Tim? Yeah. Oh, a troublemaker. He should have been fired a lot. No, the nicest guy, quiet guy. You have to be careful there. Super nice guy. He's very soft-spoken. It's tough with these microphones. I don't know have been fired a lot. No. The nicest guy, quiet guy, super nice guy. He's very soft-spoken.

It's tough with these microphones. I don't know. I don't know. Right. You know, I don't know the agenda. I don't know if Scott Moore's boss said to him, look, you're going to have to cut this, or you're going to have to do that,

or whatever the case. But I do know this, that everyone that's hired on there has to go through a probationary period of three, I think three to six months. And then if you don't pass that probationary period, then Scott Moore's the guy to say, all right, you're gone. Off you go. And that three months is pretty standard, I think.

Yeah, 90 days. Regardless of your industry, you get that probation period. Yeah. But again, I would not, listen, I never wanted his job. I never wanted the job that you had to hire the people, fire the people. I don't want that. I couldn't sleep at night. If I had to, I wouldn't be able to sleep.

Some people can do it. George Clooney in that movie could do it. Remember? He'd fly to a certain city. Up in the air? Up in the air, right? Great movie. Yeah, fantastic movie.

But in the movie, see, in the book, I believe, he had cancer, and he was like... But in the movie, they didn't go there. It was kind of a key part, though, of what makes him kind of continue.

I have this thought. If I keep moving, I'll live forever. You have this whole idea. As long as I keep moving and generating energy, I cannot die. But did you not also think that if someone reaches a certain age or they find out that they're dying or whatever, that their attitude is going to be,

oh, screw it. What's the worst that can happen to me now? You're out of X to give. What's the worst that can happen? I can say whatever. out of X to give. What's the worst that can happen? I can say whatever, and I'm sure people as they get older say, you know what, at this stage of my life, I don't have a boss to worry about.

I can say whatever I want without... Is that you right now? No, not yet. Close, though. Because those make the best podcast guests. The out of fucks to give guys are the best. Again, and in my position, am I worried that somebody from Bell or Rogers or Chorus

or some boss is going to go up? I mean, my only concern would be if one of my sponsors on the podcast said, you know, Mark, I don't like the way you said that or I don't like your association or whatever it was. But other than that, I don't care. And sometimes that's dangerous when you don't care. It could be dangerous. Loose lips. But it makes for good podcasts. That's for sure.

Ann Roszkowski, that's all I'll say there but here's more what what what what oh no Ann Roszkowski's episode of Toronto Mike oh what she talked about Gordon Martin

is pretty epic and it's only because of one reason I remember that too she had made a decision that she was out of fucks to give because she was never

going to work in the industry again correct and it created the most honest real talk you can imagine so go listen to Ann Ros you can imagine. So go listen to Ann Roszkowski. But before you go listen to Ann Roszkowski, listen now to Brian Gerstein. Hey, Hep C, Brian Gerstein here, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and proud sponsor of Toronto Mike.

You can call or text me at 416-873-0292 if you are thinking of selling in the spring market. Now is the time for me to prep your house so it can get top dollar. Hepsi, huge Vince Carter fan here. Always caught him a lot of slack on his departure, which is more the case of pathetic management running the team back then and making horrible decisions. Vince put basketball on the map here, and his legacy is

directly responsible for the incredible Canadian talent we are seeing all over. Hebsey, I was rooting for Vince to get his 25,000 point against us, and he did in typical Vince fashion on a dunk as the game was ending with the Raptors basically letting him have it.

He pulled me out of my seat, off my couch too many times to mention and I have always felt even when he was most vilified that he at some point would get his number retired here. Hebsey, where do you stand on Vince? Yay or nay to seeing his number 15 go to the Raptors at the Scotiabank Arena

and the Raptors signing him to a one-day contract, ending his career here. Yes to the former, no to the latter. I don't want a one-day contract. I hate that. I don't want it. But yes, absolutely. When he retires from basketball, you take number 15,

you raise it to the Rafters, and you let the entire country celebrate. Because you're right, Brian. If it wasn't for Vince Carter, thousands of Canadian kids, thousands would not have picked up a basketball probably. And they might have, but not with the same excitement and verve and enthusiasm for the way he played the game because he brought dunks back to the game.

You know, he did. I mean, Michael in his day, fabulous and all, but I mean, Vince's performance at the slam dunk contest that year and all of that and Air Canada and the whole thing like that, he was magnificent. However, when he scored his 25,000th point on a dunk with.5 seconds left, after he missed a free throw, he could have made the free throw. The game was decided.

All the Raptors players knew they were going to win. They wanted him. And he had two free throws for $25,000 and he clunked the second one. They got an offensive board and then he dunked it for $25,000 for Atlanta. He's 41 years old. He's playing for Atlanta.

First of all, I agree with you on both fronts. I know Brian wasn't asking me, but I'm going to answer anyways, which is to say absolutely get that number 15. Oh, without a doubt. Let him retire first, if you don't mind. And then, yeah, for sure. And I'm over the fact that he left.

I mean, I'm not mad at him anymore. Me too. And I was mad for a while. I was mad for a while. It stung for a while because he quit on the team. Exactly. He stopped dunking. He dunked yesterday. Think about that. He quit on the team. Exactly. He stopped dunking. He dunked yesterday.

Think about that. He quit on the team. You're right. Yeah. So it took a while. My buddy Elvis, who was on Toronto Mike quite a bit,

he still is pissed at Vince. You've got to let it go. I know. I had it too. I've been there, man. At some point, I think he played a game at the ACC

and the crowd cheered him. Every time he touched the ball. I think a tear went down Vince's eye. And I had this moment. I felt like the uh acc and the crowd every time he cheered him i think i think a tear went down vince's eye and i had this moment i felt like the grinch and the grinch is still the heart expanded or whatever and i had this like vince i'm over it now like you were a great raptor you were our first superstar and you you were your huge influence on a lot of uh you know young mba stars now the canadians Canadians. But I agree with you.

The one-day contract thing is stupid. And I always, always am uncomfortably cringy when I hear about it. I hate it because you've got to call a news conference. You've got to call. Everyone knows, what are you going to ask the guy one day? I just always wanted to retire at Maple Leaf. I always wanted to retire.

It's stupid. All that kind of stuff. It is. It's dumb. And then you've got to trot out the general manager and the fake and the contract. And it's not real. It's phony baloney bullshit. It's totally phony. It's totally. All that kind of stuff. It is. It's dumb. And then you've got to trot out the general manager and the fake and the contract. And it's not real. It's phony, baloney bullshit.

It's totally phony. It's totally phony stuff. It's the opposite of real talk. And it's almost like you want to remember him in that uniform. But when he was in his prime, not putting on a uniform at the age of 42 over a suit. And it's a different uniform. We want to be that big purple dinosaur. Yeah, the purple dinosaur.

All right. So we agree on that. So we agree on that. Thank you for the question, Brian. 42 over a suit. And it's a different uniform. We want to be that big purple dinosaur. Yeah, the purple dinosaur. All right, so we agree on that. So we agree on that. Thank you for the question, Brian. He's, of course. And by the way, Brian, if you've got tickets for Indiana on the 6th of January and you don't,

like you don't want to. He's got connections. And you don't, you know, and I'll buy them off face for sure. I just, you know, like these service charges that they're charging for the tickets. It's $27 US per ticket

from StubHub or SeatGeek or one of those. $27 US a ticket. ticket bang like here's your price it's 220 and then you go to checkout and then it's like oh and we're adding another 54 u.s on top no no no no no just give me the full give me the full price now what i don't understand why you have to tell me what my price is and then at the end say oh and by the way we're knocking here's another 54 on top of that don't do that just give me the full price

you know what's happened here Hebsey so we're like in our third hour here right we are? well yeah because we did like an hour with you almost so I'm combining the two shows

but in my mind that story about the service charges trying to get that tickets for that game against Indiana in my mind you told that story

on this show I didn't but you told it on the other show and then you're telling the story again and it was sort of like I had this moment

of like deja vu right and I'm like oh yeah that was a different show so interesting but Brian Gerstein

might have connections to hook you up because he's a sales representative with PSR Brokerage so PSR Brokerage clearly they're on King Street right

I think yes you know what happened was I went to drop by on Brian I wasn't really well dressed for it I was kind of out on my walk and stuff,

and I was going to go in to ask to see Brian. But then I thought, jeez, if I go in there, they're going to chase me out. They're going to think I'm like a homeless person or something like that. You've got to time that, though, because I know this from Brian's schedule,

that he goes there for these update meetings and stuff, but he doesn't actually work out of the office all the time because he's always meeting clients and hopefully Toronto Mike listeners. I was going to surprise him with an NBA trivia question. Just show up to him while he had a client

and say, I got one for you. Well, I'll try to find out when he's in the office and you can do that. But yeah, thank you, Brian, for that. That'd be funny though, wouldn't it? Can you imagine Toronto Mike shows up one day with that?

I am here to interview you in your office. Steven, Steven? Yeah, Steven on Twitter wants me to ask you if you've ever thought about syndicating a radio show. I don't know what that is. Like, does that mean you create like a Hepzion Sports and then stations across the country or whatever? Although you're so Toronto-centric, it would have to be a different show.

Well, it'd be Ontario. You could syndicate it in the province of Ontario. Yeah, I guess. That means you've got to get a string of radios. Like, Wasaga Beach has a station that would air it. You get a string of radio stations. And then what you do is you offer them the program for nothing. So here's the podcast for nothing.

And then they allow you to have a couple of commercial spots on it. And then you go locally to say, hey, I've got a radio show that runs. I don't love this model. I like a podcast made of podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly right. So there's the answer.

So the answer probably is no. No. Question from Brent Cardy. Brent Cardy actually is a London, Ontario podcaster. Yeah, he's got a good podcast. I think it's called the Brent Cardy Podcast. And you were on it. Yeah.

Yes, that's right, because I was on it, and he mentioned you were on it. And I've gotten a couple of other offers from other podcasters who want to interview me, and I find it odd. It's kind of strange. Yeah? Why? It's like you. You're It's kind of strange. Yeah? Why? It's like you. You're used to asking the questions. You're not used to being interviewed. No, that's true.

And lately, you have been interviewed. You've gone to colleges. You've been on some shows where they're asking you questions. Yep. Isn't it odd? Yeah, yeah. To be the one answering the questions? It is odd. Don't you want to say, can I ask you a question? And they go, no, no, no. I sometimes take, when I go on these podcasts,

I just did the Dads and the Six and a couple others. But for Dads and the Six, for example, I'm pretty sure I've only heard part one because they're chopping it into two parts. Oh, are they? I think it's cheating. That means I would have like 800 episodes by now

if I chopped my episodes into parts. Oh, did they tell you they were going to chop you up? No, but I mean, it's their show. They can do what they want. It's like on Dexter. Did they tell you they were going to chop you up?

That's right. But where am I going with this? I feel like I actually kind of, I don't want to use the term alpha male because it's sort of antiquated, but I became like, I took over their show and then sort of made it

like a bonus episode of Toronto Mike. Good for you. Good for you. Because you have to teach the young podcasters, the inexperienced podcasters, how to keep an audience, how to get an audience to come back,

how to get them to comment. How to extract these stories. How to get an audience to come back. How to get them to comment. How to extract these stories. Yeah. And then they turn around and they tell their friends and then they tune into your other ones and then they go on and they write beautiful reviews. Oh, yeah. Everybody should do that. They write reviews and say, I love the Toronto Mike episode with so-and-so or with so-and-so,

that kind of thing. And then word spreads. And before you know it, you've got people, can I come on the show, Mike? They're going to be knocking at your door asking if they can come into the basement for an interview. Everyone but Jay Baruchel. Jay Baruchel will be the first one. Jay, I'm really kind of sorry here.

Did you, uh, episode 400, were you surprised at all at how many people referenced the Molly Johnson episode? Like this is really a standout episode. Well, here's why you referenced that episode more than anyone.

You were more, you talked more about a previous episode, about the Molly Johnson episode and how it came to being and what had happened prior to rolling the tape and all of that, that you got every one of your listeners engaged. Well, what happened, Mike?

Like, do you like her? Do you not like her? Was it a good, like, how did you feel? And then during the course of your interview with Molly Johnson, there were a couple of times where you really questioned yourself. Yes. Out loud after the fact saying, did then during the course of your interview with Molly Johnson, there were a couple of times where you really questioned yourself out loud after the fact saying, did I do the right thing?

Should I have been more sensitive? Should I have not? So you really became obsessed with how you were doing. Did you do something wrong to upset Molly Johnson to the point where she challenged you on your own podcast? She made you pull your pants down on your own podcast. She did. She did.

And she actually got me really thinking long and hard about, like, you know, I go on these bike rides and I meditate on things. And the use of the word diva, like I never, I got inside my own head. I can imagine the look on her face when you called, referred to diva. I did. Yeah. Glad you phrased it that way. Cause I didn't call her a diva.

No, you referred to it. I said I had diva-like vibes. Yes, exactly, and that word, you know, that, I mean, that word could be, to some people, that word is as, look, it could be. It's loaded. It's loaded. It could be the, you know, what word, right? It could be that word. See, that's shocking to me that it's even in the same discussion. Correct.

Shocking to me. But that's, that's. I just didn't know. Right. I had no idea. I didn't know because I was thinking, isn't Barbra Streisand a diva? Okay. Have you had her on the show? Can you imagine?

Seriously. Imagine I get heard before a J.B. Archer show. Barbra Streisand would wipe the floor with you. She would. She would wipe the floor with you. She would accuse you of all kinds of things. She would be tough. That would be a tough interview.

I'd only do it in person, though. They may offer me a phone or a bar. So anyway, so tell me more. So you have to, so for those that didn't hear it, Molly Johnson

is a pretty famous Toronto-centric... Jazz musician. Jazz musician. And more than Toronto, I would say, only because much music aired... No, and more than jazz

in her days. More than jazz. She's playing rock and roll. Yeah, yeah. And Fidels and 100 White Album. And she came on your show and the background of it was is that you thought she was coming rock and roll. Infidels and 100 White Album. And she came on your show, and the background of it was

is that you thought she was coming later. She came earlier. You had just gotten back from a bike ride. You were sweaty. She wanted to get going. She had lost her best friend recently who had died. She wasn't in a great mood, but she had agreed to come on.

And then all hell broke loose on the podcast. Then you asked us... Aretha Franklin died. Yeah, that's right. Aretha Franklin. And what seemed like an innocuous question or a softball question or an icebreaker question

suddenly became, are you challenging me? And it was. I had to move my box out of the wire. You notice it's over here now? Because I was tired of guests hitting it. Yeah. She was loaded.

She was taking it out on you. She was having a bad day. I explained this on you. She was having a bad day. I explained this to you. She was having a bad day. It wasn't your fault. She was having the bad day. And when you're in a business like you're in, you've got to find a way to circumvent that

and extract the most you can. And I thought you did a great job. She was not cooperative. She was challenging. She wanted to fight you. Yeah, she was looking cooperative thank you she was challenging she wanted to fight you yeah she was looking for a fight and then uh it she i don't know she turned it around into a place i wasn't even thinking of like i was it wasn't in my thought process the whole idea of like we're different races like this whole notion i never even had it in my mind so uh when she started

telling me black lives matters girls get them in here. I dare you. It took me a while in real time to understand what she was getting at. I was actually pleading ignorance here. She was condescending to you. When someone says, well, do you know about so-and-so? I don't like that. I don't like that. I think the tone could have been different.

I think it could have been, I don't know if you're aware of it or not. But if you're not, let me explain something to you. But to say to someone, well, do you know about Black Lives Matter or whatever the thing was? She said, get the Black Lives Matter girls in here. I dare you. Yeah, I dare you. Anyway, okay, so But she said, we're coming for you. I'm not going to put her in the same category

as Dan Maloney, not nearly as threatening, but she was coming for me and I wasn't quite sure. I wasn't sure and I'm still not 100% sure. I wish she'd come back. What were the numbers like on that show? I should check. I don't know. Because you teased so many people to listen to it,

to give their opinion, to say, you listen to the show, and then tell me, was I wrong? Was I okay? Was it her? Here, let me tell you how this works.

There are people who will cherry pick all sports media episodes, and there are people who cherry pick the music episodes, and some people like the old chum personalities or City TV and stuff. Right, and so there's people like you, like all that, so you've gone through 200 episodes. But everyone, in all of those categories,

they're going to cherry-pick the Molly Johnson just to hear what the hell everyone's talking about. Right. You're right, so you're right, it would have big numbers. Exactly. That's the one I cherry-picked. Now, since you listened to it, and my last, because I never asked anyone this yet on the air.

Yeah, you cherry-picked it because you heard there was some controversy. The other difference, Mike, the other difference is it was fairly recent. If Molly Johnson interview would have been four years ago, I don't know if I'd, but usually you remember something that's fairly recent that sticks out the time.

The Wilson one, I remember. The Scott Moore one, the Molly Johnson one. Those were all within the last few months of podcasting. Right. When she said, we're coming for you, how do you interpret that line? I still lack clarity on who's coming for me and why. The women are coming for you, the females, the blacks, the black females. So women of color.

Women of color. Because that ties into her Black Lives Matters girls. All women first, but especially women of color, and especially women of color who are jazz singers who had a bad day, right? And anyone who thought that you might have disrespected Aretha Franklin. Which I was not disrespectful to Aretha Franklin. We're coming for you, Mike. In other words, the female species, the distaff side of gender is coming for you, all of them, every for you. All of them.

Every single one. Okay. I was just, I mean, yeah, I believe that there's something there. We are coming for you. We. So Brent Cardy, I brought him up because his question was, and you've answered part of this already, but he says, how come TSN hasn't tried to put him and Taddy, you're him, you and Taddy on the radio together?

You'd have to ask TSN that. He goes, especially in Hamilton, he says. It should make sense to him. You'd have to ask TSN that. Do you have plans on writing a second book? So remind us again, the nuts and bolts of this first book. So the book is called The Greatest Athlete You've Never Heard Of. It's based on a true story of an athlete that I'd never heard of,

that I should have heard of, that won the first gold medal, Olympic gold medal ever by a Canadian, a gold and a bronze in 1900. His name was George Washington Orton. I figured since I know a lot about sports and sports history and Canadian sports history that I would have heard of this fellow. I never heard of him before. And when my son told me about him in a, being in a trivia book, the answer to a trivia question, I thought I knew the answer and I didn't. Then I started to do a deep dive and I could not find much on the guy at all. And the stuff that I did find do a deep dive and I could not find much on the guy at all. And the stuff that I did find, a lot of it I found out was false, was incorrect. He did not run

for the United States in the Olympics. He didn't run for Canada either. There were no countries to run for. He ran for University of Pennsylvania. And then they put him in the books as an American and they put USA next to his name for 70 years until somebody discovered that he wasn't an American. He was actually from Canada. And I found out an awful lot about this guy. It's a fascinating book. He was the first disabled athlete to win a gold medal. He invented putting numbers on football jerseys.

That was his idea in 1914. She spoke nine languages. He was a fascinating human being, and nothing was written about him. And I thought, you know, I have to write a book about this guy. And he was differently abled? He was, uh, he was disabled. He had a, he had fallen out of a tree when he was three years old and he had a blood clot on the brain and he could not walk till he was 10. Wow. And he couldn't really run until he was about 12 or 13. And then he became the fastest and he had a dead arm, his right arm because of the blood clot was, um,

did not develop, had no nerves or whatever, and so basically it was a dead arm. And he started hockey in Philadelphia, and he was an amazing athlete, a world record holder, a Canadian and North American record holder in the mile and the steeplechase, and nobody, he left Canada in 1895, nobody heard of him. Nobody wrote a thing about him. Nobody referred to him as a Canadian until many years after his death. He's in the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame. He's in the Canadian Olympic Hall of Fame,

although there's no picture next to his name. And the picture that they do have, in some, is a picture of his brother. So for 70 years, they've been circulating a picture that's not even of him. So how does somebody get this book? Well, you can pre-order it on like Chapters or Amazon or ask for your local bookstore. It's not available till February. Like the hard copy of it isn't available till February. And it's called The Greatest Athlete You've Never Heard Of by me. And I'm very excited about it. We're going to have a book launch in February

and it'll be available then. And I hope- Perfect Valentine's Day gift. I hope you'll get to, yeah. Here's something for you, honey. Story of the disabled athlete from Canada that won the, yeah, not exactly fascinating character and um uh a lot of people that i've sent the book to don cherry ron mclean jerry howarth

rob baker of the tragically hip steve buffery of the toronto sun gare joyce a lot of people damian warner the reigning bronze medalist in the olympic bronze medalist in the decathlon the pan am and commonwealth games defending gold medalist have the decathlon, the Pan Am and Commonwealth Games defending gold medalist, have all read the book and have all said really nice things about it. They've given me nice testimonials. So it's very exciting. Being an author is quite interesting. What would you do to get more people out to Argos games?

I would make a rule that you have to keep the same players for a certain amount of time. That you can't turn over your roster the way they turn over a roster in the CFL. Because when I liked the CFL, I knew that the same, pretty much for, let's say, five years, it was going to be the same backfield and the same quarterback and the same guys. Not shuttling guys in and out because of NFL camps and late cuts from NFL. Okay, but they can't make this rule. No. Do you have anything realistic that they can actually do?

No, I'm sorry I don't. I do not. I just think the consistency of the league has to be, you know, it just seems to me that with the CFL, it's like, is Henry Burris still playing? Is Ricky Ray still playing? Is Travis Lulee still playing? Is Bo Levi Mitchell again?

Is he again the MVP? Oh, he's in the Grey Cup. I mean, again, again. So if every year it's Bo Levi Mitchell winning the most outstanding player, and every year Bo Levi Mitchell's in the Grey Cup, and the Toronto Argonauts managed to win last year ridiculously how they won it, absurd how they beat Calgary and everything, blah, blah, blah.

Well, what happened to them? Well, their coach is gone. Their quarterback was injured. So how do I get behind a team where they just, teams just make personnel changes and ownership changes all the time. Although that should now, I would think that would stabilize now.

I don't know. But maybe it's too late. And the thing is they lost a generation, two generations of fans when they had blackout rules. They really did. When they blacked out football games. Can you imagine? You couldn't pay my brothers

to go to an Argos game. And it's in their backyard. I've had many chances and I've just kind of said, and I'll be honest, the Grey Cup is this Sunday. Yeah. And I don't have an interest in it.

I mean, it used to be a great party. But you will probably put that on the telly and watch it because it's... No, I'm going to a concert. I'm going to see John K. Sampson of the Weaker Thans. Because he did... What's the Reggie?

What's the name of the hockey player that he... John K. Sampson wrote that petition. Reggie Leach. Reggie Leach to get him in the Hall of Fame. Right. And he made a song about it

and they presented it to the Hall of Fame, to the song, and Tim Thompson took the video of that and made a great video. This is fantastic. Look up that video.

I know. He's fantastic. He's amazing. So we're going to go see John K. Sampson of the Weaker Thans and he's on at 6.30 on a Sunday night

because you have early concerts on Sundays. Right. And I think the Grey Cup starts like right around that time. No, I think you're making the right choice. So yeah, I got tickets

to John K. Sampson and even if the Argos were in the Grey Cup, I would pick John K. Sampson of the Weaker Thans. I don't know who's the rest of his band. I think his wife is as well. But anyway, I'm looking forward to that. Are you going to get him on the show? I would love John K. Sampson of the Weaker Thans. I don't know who's the rest of his band. I think his wife is as well.

But anyway, I'm looking forward to that. Are you going to get him on the show? I would love to get him on the show. If I see him on Sunday, I'll... Maybe you or Tom Wilson. Tom Wilson, somebody can come on the show. I'll ask him if I see him. If I can get to him, I'll ask him if he'll come on the show.

He'd be great. I would love to have him on. Okay. Absolutely. There you go. So that's what I'm doing. So the Argo, I'm sad to hear this because I'm part of that lost generation.

Although I still... I have him pointing to Doug Flutie. No one can see it. But how long ago is that Doug Flutie now that I'm still referring to that? Right. Isn't that funny? I told you what happened with Doug Flutie. I almost got him killed. Doug Flutie running across the street in Calgary and a transport truck turns the corner and

almost wipes him out. And I'm saying, come on, we're going to jaywalk. I'm saying to Doug Flutie, let's jaywalk here. Downtown Calgary. You are a bit of a fire pot. What do you call it? A firecracker. A bit of a firecracker.

Yeah, a little firecracker. A lot of action. So I love covering. I got to be careful when we go for our walks and stuff. Yeah, I love covering. I was the Argo play-by-play guy for those two years, 95 and 96. Oh, yeah.

And I was supposed to do the Grey Cup that year. And then they came to me the day before the game. They said, oh, by the way, you're not doing the game. I said, what do you mean? Oh, no, no, it's going to be TSN radio. It's going to be John Wells and Leif Pedersen. And I was like, but I've done every Argo game.

I'm their play-by-play guy on 640. I do them all. Preseason games, regular season, playoff games. No, but not the Great Cup. The Great Cup is TSN radio. I just remember going, what? But you didn't get much notice on that? What? What? I suffered through a 4-14 season

in 1995 with Mike Faragelli as the coach and Kent Austin as the quarterback. I suffered through that going to places like Shreveport and Birmingham and freaking Memphis and Baltimore and San Antonio and Sacramento and now you're telling me the next year

with a great team with Doug Flutie at quarterback, you're telling me the next year with a great team, with Doug Flutie at quarterback, you're telling me I can't do the great cup game? So there you go. And you know what else was interesting, much more recent than that, although not that recent anymore, Reggie Williams. Reggie Williams, right? I got the right name? Yeah.

Ricky Williams. Ricky Williams. When I said the name Reggie Williams, I'm like, and I think I've made that mistake before. Is there a Reggie Williams? Yes. There's all kinds of Reggie Williams. There's one in every sport. It's a pretty common name. Ricky Williams. Reggie

Jackson. Reggie Williams. Ricky Jackson. It's funny. There was I remember taking my first born to watch Ricky Williams play for the Argos. There was a moment. I remember Tim Couch was like a backup quarterback on that team. Was Ricky Williams

smoking a joint? Was he smoking dupes on the sidelines back in those days? I think he was. See, he should come back now. He can do it legally, although you can't do it

in the BMO field. But yeah. Anyway, I digress because the Argos, I root for them and I mean, I really root for them and I watched that

great cup last year and I was at that Eastern Conference final, although I didn't pay for the ticket. I got flack on Twitter because I don't support my teams by paying for the tickets. Well, anyways pay for the ticket. I got flack on Twitter because I don't support my teams by paying for the tickets. Well, anyways,

I was there. You got flack on Twitter. You're the only one to get flack on Twitter. No one else gets flack on Twitter. The cleaning guy. Oh, one last quick one from Brent and I know we're almost out of time here, but I want to burn through some more questions. Brent says, can Toronto support a second NHL team? Absolutely. Don't even think about it. How about three?

Let's start with two. If you put it far enough away from New York, Canada center. But you mean like Markham? Is that what you're thinking? Absolutely. Absolutely. Ticket prices are ridiculous.

You know, yeah. And it's all the way downtown and whatever else. Or Richmond Hill. If you live in Markham or Richmond Hill or Newmarket or North York

or Scarborough. Or Downsview Park. Yeah, you could do that. Have I gone north enough? You could do that. You know, talk to Bombardier. I'm sure they've got some land that they'll sell. There's a lot of land there.

There's tons of it up there. It would be good, too, right on the subway line. Absolutely. And we'll call it the Fast Time Watch and Repair Arena. And they'll do it up in Richmond Hill. Like, that'll be the big thing they do. Call it Air Canada Centre. That's right.

AC2. Oh, yeah, that's right. How about that, eh? That's right. ACC2. Yeah. Okay. So, just one more. Oh, here's right. AC2. Oh, yeah, that's right. How about that, eh? That's right, ACC2. Okay, so just one more. Oh, here's a question actually recorded by, speaking of Fast Time, right on schedule.

Let's listen to a question from Milan. Okay. Hey, Toronto Mike. It's Milan from Fast Time, watch and jewelry repair. Looking forward to meeting Mr. Hepshire at the Toronto Mike Sports Roundtable in January. My question for Mark, as one of Canada's most decorated broadcasters, a Gemini Award winner, a trendsetter with Sportsline and the highly rated Hepgeon Sports, as well as the reigning president of the Mike Milbury Fan Club,

what were your thoughts on the media's incessant love-in and fawning over John Gibbons this season? There were even reports about reporters such as Rosie Damano crying during the farewell press conference. Was this crossing the journalistic line? Thanks, Ebsi and Toronto Mike. Thanks, Milan. That's a really good question.

No, it wasn't. Today, it would have been back when I was covering. But no, today it's not. Because today, you can call the manager Gibby. And I guess that's okay. But when the time comes that you really got to put your foot down and say he made some mistakes and he did this and deserves to go, crying? No. But I can see from a reporter's standpoint because the reporter, an embedded reporter with a team especially, you know, that's every day. And if you don't have a guy that's cooperative,

it just makes your job so much more difficult. But when the guy is cooperative, like Gibbons was, it just makes your job a breeze because you know that nothing in your mind is going to be taken. No doubt will be in your mind that you will be able to get a clip or get something from the manager. So I see it from the reporter's standpoint. You want to deal with somebody that's, you'd rather deal with someone

who wasn't a good manager, but was a good quote. How's that? So in the case of, if you would have said, would you rather have the Jays win, but the manager is Marcus Stroman and he's a miserable SOB, as a reporter, you would say, no, if I'm going to come to work every day, I want to be able to talk to someone that appears to like me or at least tolerate me and understands my job. So in that particular case there, I don't. But however, as John Gibbons, as being a manager, he was not a good manager. And I do believe that a lot of people in Toronto media gave him the benefit of the doubt. But I don't think he was a good manager.

There were a lot of times where I wondered aloud why nobody wrote or nobody on the broadcast. No one on the broadcast, you could see it, but you understand. But nobody wrote, why did Gibbons let him steal second? Or why did he have this? Or something to that effect. And ultimately, the blame falls on the manager. Did you make that call? Did your coach position that outfielder manager. Did you make that call? Did your coach position that outfielder there?

Did you not have him bunt? Or whatever the case was. So I did not like John Gibbons as a manager. I didn't like him the first time around as a manager. So when they brought him back as a manager, I just went, no. That was Anthopolis. It was his buddy. John Gibbons thought he was going to get a call to be the bullpen coach.

He thought that call was to be the Blue Jays' bullpen coach. And Alex Anthopolis said, I want you to be the manager again. But, Hebsey, two ALCS appearances back-to-back. He did, I mean, I'm not saying... Mike, you could have managed that team, and they would have beaten Kansas City. Right, because I would have had home field advantage, because I wouldn't... Correct.

I would have... Exactly. So here's the thing. You could have managed the team better than John Gibbons. You would have garnered home field advantage. You would not have taken personally stuff. You wouldn't have gone, well, I like this guy or don't like that guy,

or I'll leave him in for whatever, or I'll bat him because he wants to hit against the left even though I know his numbers aren't good all that crap you would have said no you're out you're in we're gonna beat Kansas City here's what we're gonna do the first pitch to what was the lead off that lead off guy Alcides Escobar the first pitch to Escobar at his head make Brush him back. Don't let him get comfortable at the plate. Take care of him. So John Gibbons was not a good manager.

Gibby, the Gibby. I never liked people like Wilner. I never liked them referring to him as Gibby because you are always going to give them the benefit of the doubt if they're Gibby to you. You know what I mean? Once you've kind of made them a buddy.

Gibby? What happened? Yeah, they're nice people. What happened in there? Now you can be his best friend.? Once you've kind of made them a buddy. Gibby? What happened? Yeah, they're nice people. What happened in there? Now you can be his best friend. But when you're covering somebody, there has to be some level of objectivity, some kind of integrity at play there. I just don't like

the journal guys who cover the team calling him Gibby. That's all. But that was a great question, Milan. And by the way, I know him a little bit now. He referred to the Sports Media Summit. This is an early January episode that has... I'm going to get another microphone, which is still on order.

And where is that at? But you, me, Brian Gerstein, and Milan are going to just do this. I'll try not to talk too much. You three can have a good discussion about sports media. I'll chime in now and then, of course. Sports media, very different from in my heyday. And a very blurred line. I'll save that.

Who do you work for? Is your organization a legitimate organization, news organization, journalists? Is it journalists we're talking about here? What is it exactly? Are you a blogger? Are you getting clips for your radio or your podcast? Like, is the athletic akin to the Globe and Mail now? Yes, the athletic has journalists, okay? And I think the athletic probably, amongst

all of them, probably is the most detached, maybe from the managers, the coaches, and stuff like that. Depends on the individual, but guys like John Lott and James Myrtle and them who had worked for, you know, the Globe and Mail, National Post, stuff like that, they've got their chops. They're journalists. They're journalists. But I don't see them or anyone at the athletics start all of a sudden calling, you know, calling what's his name?

You know, their little friend, Nicky. Nicky Nurse. Nicky. Hey, Nicky. Right. Is Kawhi playing Nicky? No. Right.

They're not going to do that. It wasn't Dwayne. You know, hey, Dwayne. But yeah, for the Jays. And Dwayne, it's interesting because Dwayne Casey, of course, also same beloved, I'd say just as beloved. Beloved. But you're right.

There was no cutesy nicknames for Dwayne Casey. No. And look, let's face it. They loved dealing with DeMar DeRozan because DeMar DeRozan was good with the media, would speak, whatever. And then when they heard that Kawhi Leonard was coming, do you think they were going,

oh, great, the Raptors are going to be great. They got Kawhi. The first thing the reporters thought of was, oh my God, now we've got to interview this guy instead of DeMar. So it's going to make the reporter's job more difficult. Ask any reporter. Sure, they want to see the reporter's job more difficult. Ask any reporter. Sure, they want to see the home team win. It should be easier that way. It's easier to talk

to them when they're winning. They're more likely to talk. But let's face it, when the team is losing, that's when all the good stories are. That's when the personality conflicts are. That's when the trade rumors come. That's when the coaching firing comes. And you can't do that if Gibby is your manager. And he's more than willing to talk about comes. And you can't do that if Gibby is your manager. And he's more than willing to talk about anything, and he calls you by your first name, and how's the family? How's the family? How can you cut up a guy that asks about your 7-year-old nephew? How can you say this guy can't manage?

You can't. I haven't played my, I want to do this off the top, and now I'm going to do it at the bottom here. But let's listen, let it go in the time machine here for just a moment. And a Golden Throat Award, Pittsburgh's Wendell Young. Watch this, takes one right in the Adam's apple. Oh, like he was shot. And then later on, Wendell's still in the hockey game.

And what does he do? He takes another one for the team. Oh, right in the fasneras there. Oh, right in the fasneras there. Oh, right in the fasneras there. Look at this, the fasneras there. Oh! Right in the fasneras there. Look at this. The back guy's got to get on the bobsledder. It doesn't count.

Okay. Oh, geez. Oh, give me a minute. I'll never catch it. The tears are flowing again. I had a car like that once. Fix the choke. It'll be all right.

Read those, will you? Oh, OHL action tonight. So, Hebsey, that's you and Jim Taddy on Global Sportsline. That was some show. Flashback. Oh, man, did we have fun. See, a lot of times we hadn't seen that stuff before, or Jim hadn't seen it before.

So he's reacting authentically to that. You're looking at something. It's like someone says, hey, look at this on YouTube, and you haven't seen it. You're going, oh, and you look at it, and you go, wow, this is great. It's the exact same thing, exact same thing on live television. And the object was, if I can get Jim to laugh,

then we're gold. We're golden. Because everyone else, when they hear him laugh, they're going to laugh. Last two questions. Do you have any interesting Tony Fernandez stories?

Because Milon is a huge Tony Fernandez fan. Can you give me a quick Tony? Very good friend of mine. Tony and I got along really, really well from the first time he came up with the Jays in 1983 or four. Anyway, we got along well. His nickname is Cabeza. Cabeza is Spanish for big head, but it kind of has two meanings. It means like you actually physically have a large head

or that you've got a big ego. You've got a big head. You think highly of yourself. So his nickname was Cabeza. So when I first started, he says, just call me Cabeza. So I'd call him Cabeza, and the other Spanish-speaking players would look at me like, you can't do that. That's an endearing term. You've got to be his friend. When we were in the Dominican Republic filming,

videotaping baseball, we were the first North American television crew in the Dominican to shoot baseball, to shoot the Epi Guerrero Complex, to shoot all these Blue Jay players that they had drafted that were coming up through their system, to watch them in Santo Domingo, just outside of Santo Domingo at the Epi Guerrero Complex. We were the first crew down there. And Tony said, when you're down there, come see me. He was playing for Lice, which is one of the teams in the Dominican, the professional team. He was their captain. And he said, come down to the stadium, right? And come look me he was he was playing for lise which is one of the teams in the dominican the professional team he was their captain and he said come down to the stadium right and come look me up and we'll do an interview so i said great great great great so we you know we go down to the stadium and we got our passes and all that and and fernandez is the dh in the game so uh we see him before the game and he's working out and we get some stuff and he says uh he says um i'll come

get you for the interview so now the game starts so my cameraman's on the top of the dugout he's shooting the game the place is packed it's lise against um escogido the two teams in santo domingo and they hate each other oh they hate each other it's yankees red socks it's it's uh it's yeah it's serious rivalry stuff and the fans for one team sit sit on one side, on the third base side, and the fans on the other team sit on the first base side, and there's guards with dogs. The guards have M16 rifles that are watching. It's serious stuff.

And Fernandez plays for Lise. So anyway, he's the DH in the game, and I don't know, he's batting third or something like that. So anyway, the game starts and all that. We're recording and all that. And as he hits, he grounds out. So he grounds out, and now their dugout is on the third base side the home dugout lise's dugout so now he grounds out so imagine you ground out you get to first base and then you run back across the diamond

past the pitcher's mound into the third base dugout so as he's running across the striped line to the dugout he points to me he points and he points to the dugout and he crooks his finger towards me in my camera in other words come on come here the game's going on he says come on he wants he invites us to come into the dugout he takes us into the clubhouse the game is going on yeah right he's a dh though so he doesn't have a play in the field right and he says okay let's do the interview wow so we do the interview while the game is going in the clubhouse. And he gives us a great interview. And then, I don't know, we hear,

it's his turn to bat again. We've been talking for, I don't know, 40 minutes or something like that. And that's his turn to get up to bat. So he says, he excuses himself. He's so polite. Excuses himself. Okay. Goes out.

Strikes out on purpose. Comes back and does the interview. He says, I had to finish the interview. So he tells me he took three swings and swung and missed and came back and finished the interview, which I just thought was really cool. So yeah, that's my Tony Fernandez story. And he said, anytime you're around,

he invited us to his house one time. We couldn't make it. A wonderful, wonderful guy. Misunderstood, I think. Very proud. And the best shortstop I ever saw. Amazing. This guy had range,

and he played on an artificial turf in Toronto. That ball had some jump. That flip, that flip. That flip throw. But he would get balls that nobody could get to that he could anticipate off that turf. Because not a lot of the stadiums had turf. Toronto and Seattle were like the only ones

that had artificial turf. Right. And he could make those plays. He was wonderful. And he was a switch hitter and he was a marvelous hitter. A marvelous hitter. People, you know, go take a look at his numbers. He was a fantastic hitter from both sides of the plate.

He could run the bases very, very well. And he was a dynamite fielder. And a good guy. So Tony Fernandez, number one in my books in more ways than one. The last question I'll ask while Lois starts up here is, what's going to happen with Nylander? Hey, that's a great question.

I don't know, man. I'd like to see him. I think I'd like to see him traded. I think I've had it with William Nylander. I think if he doesn't sign, I don't want to see him in a Leaf uniform. He may be the most hated Toronto Maple Leaf when all's said and done.

Because he won't play. You got a chance to be on a Stanley Cup team here. Come on! But if he wants the money and doesn't want to be part of the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs, good luck to him. And then if he is traded, what is it like when he comes back and plays his first game here?

Oh, he gets booed. Oh, yeah, for sure. Oh, he totally gets booed. He didn't want a part of this. He totally gets booed. Doesn't want the Shannon plan. And he gets hammered into the end boards by Austin Matthews. Hopefully he doesn't hurt his shoulder, keep Austin's shoulder intact.

He'll be back this weekend. Austin, I think he might play. Do you know that on Authority? I think he might go against Philadelphia tomorrow night I'm just saying And that Here, I'm trying to find my

extra, and that brings us to the end of our 401st show You can follow me on Twitter, I'm at Toronto Mike Hebzy is at Hebzy Man. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee.

Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. And PayTM is at PayTM Canada. See you all next week. And I don't know what the future can hold or do for me and you. But I'm a much better man for having known you.

Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up.