Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Mark Wigmore: Toronto Mike'd #428

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

Mike chats with radio broadcaster Mark Wigmore about his years at Newstalk 1010, Proud FM, CBC and Jazz FM, and his new podcast, Art at the End of the World.

Welcome to episode 428 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Paytm Canada, Palma Pasta, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair, and our newest sponsor buckle i'm mike from toronto mike.com and joining me is host of art at the end of the world mark wigmore hey mike welcome mark great to be with you my friend lovely love your podcast great to be here thank you uh no it's great to finally meet you and uh when i went outside, I was at the door. Actually, I have a song for this. Why don't I bring down my theme song here?

But when I was at the door, I kind of looked out over the landscape, if you will. The melting tundra. Yeah. Sure. So here's a jam for the occasion. What a difference, man. Like, you know, they always say, oh, don't talk about the weather. No, I love talking about the weather.

We all have to experience this crap. Any reason to play Glenn Frey, my friend. That's right. That's right. Yeah. The H is O, as Will Ferrell once lamp my friend. That's right. That's right. Yeah. The H is O, as Will Ferrell once lampooned. That's right. That's right. The, that temperatures, those temperatures, now let's talk about now that we've come through

it, but last week was a cruel and unusual punishment, those temperatures. It was for everybody. I know my pets all had cabin fever. Because you can't take them out, right? It's really tough? It's tough. You're trying to get back and forth to work. You're trying to deal with family. You're trying to keep everybody organized.

If you're on the street, you've got to shovel snow. A lot to contend with. So I'm kind of glad that we're having a little moment of respite. Well, what a difference. I have a very short two-block walk. The two little ones I take them to kindergarten and daycare in the morning. It's two blocks. But that's a whole ordeal when it's minus 30 with the windshield.

Of course. And I can't. So you have dogs? I got three dogs and two cats. And so everybody was getting a little squirrely over the last week, no doubt about it. So how do you just dump them in the backyard and hope they do their business? There's a lot of that.

There's also hoping that you don't get too much salt on the sidewalks. Well, do they wear boots? I got every kind of boot. I got big boots that they hate. I have the little rubber ones that they seem to deal with okay. And I have three different rubber ones that they seem to deal with okay. But, you know, and I have three different sizes of dogs too. So I have every kind of apparatus you might imagine.

That's funny. I know those little boots, they look like they're like balloons, right? They are. They are little balloons. Yeah. Different colors. So what are we at now? So I know that on Friday, so I judge all of our weather by can I get out for a bike ride and how long

can I go for kind of deal. And I can tell you, last week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, I could not bike in that. I tried on the Monday. It just was painful. It was actually kind of nice driving down here because when I was at Proud FM, I was in the Friends for Life bike rally twice. And my

training route was to come down here and head into Port Credit and that sort of thing. Waterfront Trail, man. Yeah, great to bike around here. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. But finally, I got out Friday because it broke a bit Friday afternoon. I got out. And then the weekend, like, amazing. And now, I mean, I don't know what that is, if that's five degrees.

But it feels like 25 degrees after last week. Feeling pretty balmy, yeah. So when I take my photo with you after this episode, I'll be wearing my t-shirt. I won't be like in pain. I've done my best to look post-Super Bowl slick here. So you know how it is. Did you watch the Super Bowl yesterday?

I did, yeah. Okay, let's talk about that. I actually, so what, it's about 11 o'clock. It's not too much to talk about. I don't know if you got it. Well, I'm coming off. So I've recorded already this morning, but I recorded an episode of Mark Hebbshire's podcast,

Hebbsy on Sports. So we had a lot of Super Bowl talk. But tell me what you thought of the game. First start of the game. What did you think of the game? I thought it was, I mean, if you are a true lover of football, then all that defensive play and the calls by the coaches and that sort of thing is

I guess entertaining on some level, but I think if you're trying to... If you're CBS, about halfway through that thing, you must be worried that you're bleeding cash one way in every direction. I mean, it wasn't a very exciting game and I have to imagine

for the Patriots, it couldn't have been a very not as satisfying a win as other Super Bowls. and I have to imagine for the Patriots it couldn't have been a very you know not as satisfying a win as other Super Bowls. Although do you know that's their largest margin of victory of the six Super Bowls. This is the most widest margin of victory. At some point you thought wow

in a normal game you'd think LA could catch up but it just wasn't looking like they could pass the ball at all. Yeah, that was awful. Like, the first eight possessions, I think, where they punted, and then they never, obviously, they never got a touchdown. A lot of exciting punts.

I think there was the longest punt of all time in the NFL last night, so. But I'm with you. I think if you're, like, a hardcore lover of football, you find something there to like with the defense and the calls by the coaches. But personally, in the third quarter, I was doing the dishes. Right.

Like I left to do the dishes. Yeah. I think a lot of people went through that. And certainly, I'm not a hard, hardcore NFL fan. And I was definitely the guy at the party last night kind of making the jokes about how garbage the game was. Yeah. I was making some of the football fans mad, I'll say that.

That's funny. Hey, let's talk about the halftime. Did you watch the halftime show? Yeah. You're a music guy. I want to hear your critical review of the halftime show. I think Adam Levine and company, which he may as well rename the band. I was joking last night.

This is Classic Five. Just another Classic Five track. But Adam Levine really seems to be the star of the show. The band had a little bit of camera work on it. But I thought Big Boy was great doing I Like the Way You Move. And I thought Maroon 5 played their hits. And if you don't, I don't know what else you would want. I don't know that the JT's

and the Maroon 5's of this world bring quite the same gravitas as The Who or some of The Prince or some of the other bands that are world conquering and actually have maybe cultural meaning attached to their careers. You get what you get.

That's a good point. We got what we got, which was Maroon 5. Playing their hits. Yeah, we got their hits. And personally, music's so subjective, but it might be one of my least favorite popular bands of the last 20 years is Maroon 5. I just find them really, like, when I hear a Maroon 5 song, I can't change the channel fast enough.

They're pretty top 40 ready. I mean, there's no doubt about it. But it seems to lack any kind of, like, I don't want to lack soul or whatever, of course, but it seems really lack any kind of like, I don't want to, I lack soul or whatever, of course, but it just seems really bland and pedestrian and there's no like, I don't find anything cool about it at all. I will say in

2019, a band playing instruments on major network television is maybe a rare bird at this point. You're right. There's only the other band, the Thunder band. What are those guys called? Thunder. Well, I'm thinking of Greta Van Fleet is all the rage right now.

But they're almost a novelty now as opposed to the mainstream version of pop music. When they perform this song, so I'll bring it up, but a big hit from Maroon 5. And of course, they played it yesterday.

I don't think Adam Levine said the word jagger. Like I don't, I heard him say moves like and then trail off every time.

Like, and then I was thinking like, you know, I'm just by myself. I'm not at a party. Like everyone sees like Pepsi's at a party. You're at a party.

I'm home alone. I'm watching it alone on the couch like a sad, pathetic person. But like, do you think there's any possibility that there was a conscious decision that moves like Jagger would be performed

without saying the word Jagger for any reason? Like tying him to the Pepsi? Or is there any kind of like, it looks like an endorsement or something? I wouldn't put it past the Stones who have sued and, you know, there's a trail of lawyer money and court money that follows them all the way through their career, including with bands like The Verve and so on. That's their biggest hit in the last 20 years, Bittersweet Symphony.

Which is a crazy story. I covered the story of how that all came to be when I was at CBC Music. And it is actually a pretty fascinating story. It was really nothing to do with the Stones. It was their producer who had made a Rolling Stones instrumental album. And that's what the Verve had kind of copied. And it all got back to the Stones and the rest is history. Yeah. And it's just... We're jumping around here.

No, that's what I do. I heard your show. We'll talk about your show. Your show was very well formed. Thank you. Well structured.'s what I do. I heard your show. We'll talk about your show. Your show is very well-formed. Thank you. Well-structured. Thank you very much. This show is different.

Thank you very much. This is a different thing. So let me just get that going here because... There you go. So that's the part, right? Great track. That's the part, yeah. Right, and that's the...

I mean, epic track. I mean, The Verve still doesn't have the career that they did without this song, regardless of whether they got the royalties. So, you know, that's a lot of good touring. And Richard Ashcroft was just in town last year, you know, that big canceled show at the Sony Center. Oh, and that was with a Gallagher brother? Yeah, Bad Boy Gallagher.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's with Liam. Right, right. I think I was trying to get a media pass to that one. Right. And the funny thing is, the day of the event, they declined. I know you have no problems with this. You can just go get your media passes.

But for me, I get my media pass half the time, and half the time they say sorry. Yeah, that's something I've perhaps struggled with my entire career. But you're right, for a big rock event or a big music event, I mean, it's not like they're going to hand over Beyonce tickets to me, should I ask. They won't. I mean, that's just too hot of a ticket. Because I figure you could drop some. I'm sure you could drop, I don't know what you would drop now, but you would drop CBC.

I might be able to grab a single seat here and there. But yeah, typically I'm sure you could drop, like, I don't know what you would drop now, but you would drop CBC. I might be able to grab a single seat here and there. But, yeah, typically I'm just buying. I'm also not a huge fan of the rigmarole involved in that. You know, I sometimes just go, I don't really even want to face that hustle. So I think I'll just buy a ticket or buy tickets, you know, what have you. Totally. In fact, I got declined for this one. I think the last time I actually, I'm trying to think, the last time I i was successful i got a nice seat at massey hall to watch bare naked ladies i

think that was last time i scored a media pass but uh the verb just since we're talking the verb let me just say what a great song lucky man is like i think that's a tremendous song that whole record is fantastic the drugs don't work another great song and uh um yeah i think that that entire record is a is a gem no doubt about it 90s gem ever aging i love my 90s uh my 90s jams uh starting to feel a little further away isn't it it's uh you can feel the space between it well it's definitely further away but in the same breath it feels like it was two years ago like i feel like oh the 90s were a couple years ago sometimes so it's So much has changed. Everything's changed since then.

I mean, what was okay then is not now. And, you know, there's a million cultural tipping points that have happened since then. And certainly the music business is totally inside out comparatively. That's for sure. I mean, I was buying CDs in the 90s.

That's one thing. Are you by any chance, are you a SpongeBobgebob Squarepants fan? I mean, I know of it. I had a brief kick in the 90s, speaking of which,

with the Teletubbies. I kind of got a kick out of that. Oh, yeah. Okay. As far as kid shows are concerned. But you weren't

watching it alone, were you? Like, were you just... Like our friends, maybe at the end of a rave or something, you might throw on some teletubbies oh gotcha yeah you know i'm thinking 1994 or 5 yeah you had to you had to be there of course of course but like so spongebob apparently and i didn't i'm not in the spongebob fan club or anything i'm just like aware but apparently uh

they were promised uh they have a spongeb or something called, I want to call it Sweet Victory. I don't know if that's what, Sweet Victory. And it was supposed to be played at the Super Bowl during the halftime show in tribute to the, I guess, the creator of SpongeBob passed away. That's right. Yeah, he passed away. I heard that. So I guess they were teasing this or whoever had the game. CBS was teasing this.

And all the SpongeBob fanatics were all like psyched for this and tuned in to catch this sweet victory, it's called. I Googled it and watched it on YouTube. It's pretty good stuff. But long story short is I guess they got a couple of bars of it and then it was gone. I did see that. It felt a little stuck out like a sore thumb. Right.

So apparently the plan was that was supposed to be much longer and more SpongeBob-y, but I guess it got cut down to what it was, and they were angry. So the Super Bowl has angered the SpongeBob fanatics. It was not a bad night for commercials and promos and movie promos and so on. I mean, that kept me mildly entertained throughout that game, starving of any points. That's all we had. I always wonder, who's watching on the

CTV affiliate? Who's doing that? To watch promos for the launch. You know what I mean? It was obviously important to them that people watch on that particular... What do they say there now? Streaming?

Streaming on CTV. Right. I thought it was still regular TV, but I guess it's streaming. The ad I thought, one of the better ads I thought was the Tom Hanks voiceover for the Washington Post. Did you catch that one? Yeah, I did see that one. And I think that's the most, I guess I'm guessing the most expensive package is that block with

like two minutes left in the fourth quarter because people are going to I feel like that's the prime spot. I don't know if they really that it really worked last night given the patheticness of the game. You know when they're kicking and it was funny how they're trying to Tony Romo and they're trying to keep you interested so it's a 10 point difference

and they're like okay do you go for the touchdown now and then the onside kick and then do the field goal or do the then they decide you got to do the field goal now and have enough time for some kind of a miracle onside kick recovery for touchdown, Hail Mary style. They were speaking about it as if it was somewhat of a normal thing to do, yes. And I was thinking, okay, well, if all that breaks down,

not only will we be witnessing the greatest comeback in the history of high stakes games, but that's a 0.001% probability of all that going down like that. And then he has to kick the field goal first. Of course, the field goal is wide or whatever. So anyway, anticlimactic. It was the lowest scoring. Compared to last year's game, I should say.

Yeah, yeah. It was like really apples and oranges as far as excitement was concerned. For sure. What was I going to say? The weather was nice on the weekend. I found myself twice. I don't know why.

I think I know why, actually. But twice I found myself biking to Ontario Place and taking photos. Going in and taking all these photos. Just grab the few memories while you can. All of a sudden, for obvious. Like I'm full of, all of a sudden, for obvious reasons,

I'm full of like Ontario Place nostalgia. So I really got deep. I went in, I did Friday night, I did, no, Friday afternoon I did it

and then I did it again yesterday and I tweeted a bunch of photos from Ontario Place. I was just there to watch Free Solo at the IMAX screen that they have there. What do they call it? The Cinesphere? That's the one, yeah.

And I'm not originally from Ontario. Where are you from? I'm from Victoria, BC originally. But how old are you when you come here? I was 23. Okay. Yeah, so I sort of it wasn't part of my childhood. I've been a couple times, but it more or less closed down not too long after I got here.

So I went to see Free Solo, which, by the way, if you have not seen, it's nominated for an Oscar. I mean, riveting film, incredible. But it was sold out, and it was sold out every night, I believe, that it was there. It was really hard to get a ticket.

You had to book in advance. And I thought to myself, I wish the powers that be could see this, what I'm experiencing right now. Because it was cool. And didn't they just refurbish that place? They did. And I haven't been in a while.

But I think if I go back, speaking of the 90s, that's their episodes. This is for the 90s. I saw Pulp Fiction at the Cinesphere. I think they're showing it this month. Oh, is that right? Yeah, yeah. My brother went and it was amazing. And I always thought that was so cool. Even I took photos of the outside of it

on yesterday. But yeah, I mean, I don't know what will happen to Ontario Place, but I don't trust those who are making the decisions. So I envision a casino coming in at some point. The quotes I've read, I mean, I think there was one somewhat, I'm paraphrasing a little here, but it was

something to the effect of, we're just going to do what Doug Ford wants. So take from that what you will. I mean, I would imagine as the conservative party in this province, they would want to keep it a family-friendly space. So I could see the Ferris wheel, perhaps.

Which is fine. Actually, you know what? I don't even hate the idea of a Ferris wheel. No, I don't think anybody does. A lot of cities have them. Chicago and London, they're all the place. And that's fine. Do the Ferris wheel or whatever. Although I hear there's like you can only go so high because that airport's right there. That's a good point. I mean, I've

heard a lot of people talk about this recently, too, that you think about Central Park in New York City and what a draw that is for tourism. Why wouldn't we consider doing something similar here, have a bunch of green space right in the downtown core? Okay, well, now you're preaching to the choir because that new part, that Trillium Park,

which I was in Friday, I went through Trillium Park again. Actually, there was yesterday too. I don't know, because again, I'm all around Nonchalant Place last few days. But that Trillium Park is really nice. This was like a parking lot or something. And suddenly it's like public

waterfront space where you can have a picnic or bike or hike. It was really cool. And I always think, just keep extending that west. It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the culture around the amphitheater as well as things change. I mean, I know that's when a lot of people get down to that region of Toronto is when they're going to see a show in the summertime.

And so, yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens. I hope they do something good. Oh, boy. I don't trust that to happen, but we'll see. We'll see. One thing I want to do, like at some point, is I know that, you know, for the you mentioned the amphitheater, which is now the Budweiser stage. I have this idea. I want to kayak and go be in the water where it's public.

The water, they can't stop. Apparently, you can go and hear. I don't know what you can see, but you can hear concerts in a kayak. I would like to do that on a summer day. Yeah, I grew up in Victoria, as mentioned, and people, we did fireworks at the famous Butchart Gardens, the world-famous Butchart Gardens.

And I worked there for a couple of years. And I remember people taking their kayaks, you know, actually through the ocean so that they could be there for the fireworks and people doing that as well in Victoria's Inner Harbor. But as far as the amphitheater is concerned, Budweiser Stage,

I have gone down there a couple of times just to listen to a concert because I didn't have enough money for a ticket when I first got here. I used to do that at the old exhibition place with the stage, what do they call it? Oh, anyway,

the one on C&E Grounds because I used to work the X and like the Stones, the Steel Wheels Tour came to the exhibition place in 89, I guess. And I went and walked over and stood beside the thing

and I could hear everything. You can't see anything. But yeah, I've done that. I think I did that for the first Coldplay tour and that might be, you know, getting into some Maroon 5 territory right now.

I was going to say, Maroon 5 makes Coldplay sound like Nirvana. You know what I mean? Like that's, they really made Coldplay sound better. They do, I suppose. And I have to say, as a serious concert goer in my life, it's been something I've done a lot of.

I've seen some pretty incredible displays of technological power in my time, including Pink Floyd and some of these big, big production shows. And I have to say Coldplay's most recent stadium tour is the most spectacular event I think I've ever seen. Okay, the one that was at

Dome, right? It was at the Dome, yeah. Oh, yeah. Damien Cox of all people was telling me about it. Like, yeah, there's some kind of like, the lighting The lighting was all interfaced with wristbands on your wrist as well. If you can believe this, they had the roof open of Sky Dome, of Rogers Center. And they, of course, the CN Tower is right there.

The lights on the CN Tower were syncing up with the lighting in the concert. That sounds amazing. Plus they had an app you could download. And then that also did a whole lighting thing. And I mean, between their fireworks and the lighting show, the confetti, just the work that went into this thing was truly a spectacle, no doubt about it. Now in Victoria, what's a bad winter day? Like, what are we talking,

does it ever get to like minus 10? I was speaking to my mother yesterday and they are literally counting cherry blossoms as we speak. So that's happening. That's a little early for Victoria, but they have had a very mild winter so far. And Victoria is known for having a bit of a shield against the rain that Vancouver gets.

And so it's quite a beautiful place. And yeah, I mean, the worst it kind of gets is around minus one or two you know because it's funny because i i would i think biff naked was just here and she spent forever in vancouver right and i was it was like minus 30 day she's here and then we were talking like you don't get that there so like it must make it somehow uh maybe worse that you didn't grow up with this because at least we can say every winter we get some minus 25 nonsense. I used to actually really dread it. And especially those first couple of years, like 2000, 2001.

I remember some pretty difficult winters where we got into the minus 30 territory overnight. And I just remember the squeak of the snow as I walked through. And I thought, I am... And it's bone chillingchilling, right? Yeah, I just had no context for it at all. But now I really love it. And I embrace winter sports. And I've been out...

I was going cross-country skiing yesterday. Yeah, sure, yesterday when it was four degrees, Mark. Come on. I did go in the colder weather, too, in Taylor Creek Park. A couple days. Oh, cool. Yeah. Very cool.

Are you familiar at all with the Galleria Mall? Galleria Mall. At Dufferin and DuPont. Yeah, I know that area. Yeah, sure. Okay, let me tell you. Let me play a theme song though. So let me tell you about Brian Gerstein.

So Brian Gerstein is a sales representative with PSR Brokerage. PSR Brokerage is going to be selling condos exclusively, the Galleria Mall condos. So the plan, I guess there's a plan. I should tell you, I worked at the Galleria Mall for five years. You're familiar with it. I'm super familiar. mall for five years and you're familiar with it i'm super familiar like they had this like el amigo this little coffee shop place where you get a sandwich in the middle of the mall you had all these it was like a time machine like it felt like it was stuck in the i want to say the 70s

sure some malls can feel that way yeah and it was so this is in the so in the 90s it felt like the 70s but i understand it still feels like the 70s so it's not like it progressed to the 90s it felt like the 70s but i understand it still feels like the 70s it's not like it progressed to the 90s it stayed in the 70s but it's like a yeah like a time machine and then it's still there but they're gonna tear it down apparently and put up these big uh awesome condos and i was thinking like that's kind of cool like to like to to buy a condo where the galleria mall was like i don't know what they'll name these things hopefully Hopefully, they keep the name Galleria or something. But this PSR brokerage is going to be exclusively selling these condos. And that's where Brian is. So Brian, apparently tomorrow, they get briefed on all the details. So he's at 416-873-0292 or go to propertyinthesix.com and

contact Brian and find out about these condos. I'm super like interested in what they're like and what they're going to cost and all that jazz. So apparently tomorrow he'll be super educated on the topic. So if you're looking for a condo, the Galleria Mall. Noted, my friend. And of course, I'm in the East End, and so we see all sorts of buildings going up right now. Our old Wonder Bread factory is currently being converted into condos and or, you

know, some version of real estate. So that's the East End story is the Wonder Bread. The equivalent out here would be the Mr. Christie factory that's going to be converted. I mean, factories in general, right? It's not like we make anything in this town anymore. So we turn them into real estate

for you. I'm glad you mentioned that. By the way, you ever see The Wire? Of course. I thought you were breaking into Sabaka there. We used to make shit in this country. Now it's just

you put your hand in the other guy's pocket. Would it kill you to buy American? Oh, I don't like poor Sabaka. That was season two, man. Oh, Sabaka.

And what is it? The much, the very controversial season two. Some people say very much a standalone season. It's very controversial because of what I would say,

because you get really immersed in the wire and there's literal culture shock coming into season two because you just spent season one on the streets and the drug dealers and the other and the cops and then suddenly you're on the docks and there's more color and there's more, there's suddenly more white people and everything's very different.

Less color, you could even say, in some ways. Yes, that's right. everything's very different and less color you could even say in some ways yes that's right there's more color and less got those uh uh what are they called the uh the boxes that things are shipped shipping containers i guess uh they yeah they're very colorful that's for sure but i mean and meanwhile season one of the wire it's very dingy and gray pretty gritty yeah, yeah. But I liked season two, but it took me a few episodes to warm up to it because I missed my friends from season one.

I truly love that show. I mean, when I think about some of the original binges in my television watching career, that was pretty high up there. I have the DVD set right here. Nice. I know George Shambhalopoulos

claims that it's his favorite as well. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, we talked about that too. Yeah, so, yeah. And who was it that violently was assaulting my box set? Oh, yeah, Molly Johnson. You worked with Molly. Old friend of mine.

Dear, dear Molly. Did you know her brother was in The Wire? Of course. He's in the final season. He runs the newspaper, does he not? Yeah, Clark Johnson's in The Wire, but he also directed four episodes of The Wire, including the pilot, the first one. Is that true? Yeah, he directed the first one. Talented guy. In fact, I loved seeing them, and I know the press reacted to this too, but the Johnson siblings on the Canadian Screen Awards last year.

siblings on the Canadian Screen Awards last year. So fun, and just really off the cuff, and very Canadian, and very chic looking, and what a group, what a talented group they are. And Molly's actually nominated for a Juno, I saw. Yep, for her amazing take on the Marvin Gaye

catalog, and incredible musicians along there with her, Mike Downs, and Robbie Botosh, and Larnell Lewis. Yeah, it's great. So we wish her great luck at the Junos, Molly Johnson. We do.

We do. Let me give you some gifts before we dive in here. Okay. Okay, first, how about we start with the beer? Beer. That six-pack of beer is courtesy of Great Lakes Beer. I've got the Laurel Lager, the seven barrel series in my hand as I speak.

You picked the can with the least exciting artwork. You got to pick a different one because that's part of the charm of the... Here we go. I've got the Lake Effect IPA. Oh yeah, that's appropriate. Last week that was appropriate. We're right here by the lake, right?

And they're here too. Like that's the thing. They're a Southwest Toronto local craft brewery. They are fiercely independent. 99.9% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario. As they say, GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And it even makes its way east of Yonge. So pop into an LCBO and pick up some Great Lakes beer.

How about beer culture in Toronto, eh? Isn't it something? I mean, I think there's some pretty good beer cities in this country. Vancouver is definitely giving us a run

for our money right now and there's some interesting things happening in Montreal and Halifax. But boy, Toronto has really stepped up to the plate

over the last few years. Amazing, yeah. It's amazing. And it's amazing because these guys, Great Lakes, have been there for 31 years now? Yeah. Not a new kid on the block. Right. You'd Amazing, yeah. It's amazing. And it's amazing because these guys, Great Lakes, have been there for 31 years now? Yeah. Not a new kid on the block. Right. You'd think, yeah,

they're popping up everywhere now, but these guys have been at it for 31 years. So enjoy your Great Lakes beer. On Fridays, they have live at five, I think they call it, but they have singers come in and perform live at the brewery. So check that out.

Respect. Respect. To the generation-long Great Lakes Brewery vintage of beers. Fiercely independent. And speaking of fiercely independent, Palma Pasta. Palma Pasta is Mississauga's.

I say Mississauga's, but they have a location in Oakville too. But Mississauga's best fresh pasta in Italian food. They would like you to take home that large meat lasagna. I'm looking at it as we speak. This is going to feed what looks to be several families. And thank you very much. It really does.

Very sweet. You're not kidding. There's a lot of lasagna there. You might have difficulty carrying that thing. All the way from Mr. and Mrs. Saga, as Stompin' Tom Connor used to say. Oh, man, Stompin' Tom. Played a few nights at the Horseshoe,

as I've been told. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I saw him. You know where I saw him? I saw a live taping of the Conan O'Brien show at the Winter Elgin Theater, and he was the musical guest. I remember that.

I remember I met Conan that week. That was kind of fun. That was, wasn't that like, and I was always a Conan guy, like from the day one. Especially in those days, for sure. Yeah, especially, right. I lost touch with the TBS stuff and everything. But because I was, I already liked Saturday Night Live, but I was a huge Simpsons guy. And I thought

he was my, I know that a little bit older than me, they were like, were Letterman guys. And I liked Letterman too. But Conan was my guy. That was my guy. I had such a little bit older than me, they were Letterman guys, and I liked Letterman too, but Conan was my guy. That was my guy. I had such a strange experience there. I was invited to an after party, and I didn't get to go see any of the tapings, so I went with, I think, my friend Dustin Rabin,

I want to say, and I was standing there in a hall, and I remember Conan walked in the door, and he walked directly towards me out of all the people that were there i couldn't believe it i was like what what is happening here i didn't do any say anything what's going on and he just walked right up to me and shook my hand and said hello i'm going to know brian oh i thought maybe he thought you were there to take his jacket or something i thought that could have been or he

thought that maybe i was somebody more important or what have you who knows he thought you were elvis costello but we had a great discussion about the insult comic dog. Yeah, that was the one. That was the episode I was at. So that's the Adam Sandler was the guy, the main guest. And Stompin' Tom was the musical guest.

And yeah, the triumph, the comic insult dog. I've had Ed the Sock on the show. And we spoke about how the, what's he called? Triumph, the comic insult dog. The insult the comic. Insult. Insult dog. The insult comic dog. Insult comic dog. Something like that. It's pretty much a Ed the Sog ripoff.

I can see how it could definitely make the bridge there. Yeah, for sure. So, and I think I remember, if I remember, you might remember too, Mike Bullard's show was recording at the same time. And all the attention was on Conan O'Brien and everything. And Bullard was having like Darcy Tucker and and guys like that on if i remember correctly well conan was having like adam sandler and stuff like that well there you go that's the it's canada's uh arts arts and culture and entertainment uh structure you know we have nothing now in a

nutshell like do we have a late night we don't have late night we don't in fact it's an interesting topic i mean that's something i've always thought I would love to try my hand at. But, you know, I don't know if I got the TV, you know, I haven't done a ton of TV. You have the voice. I've done a little bit of TV, but not a lot. We need something. I know that, you know, Strombo had a thing for a while, but I don't know if that's kind of the same thing. He had guests on and he talked in big chairs or whatever. or whatever he really did i mean it didn't have like a total

late night uh and wasn't a variety show to it and i mean kudos to them they did a great job i mean they really had to sew together a show based on like okay these people are here during tiff and these people are here during music week and let's record these interviews and then mold them into what looks like a normal nightly show. So it was, I'm sure, a huge undertaking. For sure. And one of my favorite guests is Ralph Ben-Murgy, because they took a real hard shot at it in the early 90s. Big time.

Friday night. Guy's got the gift of the gab, no doubt about it. The Look People album here was a gift from James B. And you know James as well. I do. I know all these characters. James and Molly. And I'll jot more. Heather Bambrick. We'll get to this later. Bambrick, yeah. She was just here.

And Danny Elwell. Of course. You know, Danny Elwell quit on the air. And then on the last episode I did with Mark Weisblatt from 1236, we played, do you know the radio person? Of course you know him, Mark Elliott. Yeah, of course. Who passed away, of course. Nils.

Nils, I'm trying to remember his last name. Johansson? Johansson. Johansson, yeah. Wonderful man. I knew him very well. And I actually had, it wasn't that long ago that I saw Mark Elliott and he was in good spirits and talking like he always did and it was heartbreaking to hear about his passing.

Well, we played a recording from when he was in Ottawa. He was essentially quitting on the air. Pretty much, I would say, not quite as... Maybe somebody was giving a heads up there. I don't know, because Danielle really did just resign. She read her like... Yeah, I mean, it was two very different situations, I think.

You know, Mark had a bit of a flair for the dramatic, for sure. Yeah, apparently it was all about how much music they would play on this talk station in Ottawa. I don't know, but we'll get to your 1010 experience. You have a lot of...

We're going to get to this and there's like, there's some CBC, some 1010. You mentioned Proud FM. Yeah. Of course, Jazz FM, the podcast. I want to hear about

what you're up to now. In fact, maybe even before I proceed any further so your podcast is called Art at the End of the World yes here's what I'm naturally curious about your setup so like here's where I record it's my basement

I have a kid who sleeps around the corner the laundry gets done over there I see that and you're on my Rode Procaster microphones, and we're recording this, and there's waveform here, and things are happening. But can you tell me just a bit about your setup

for Art at the End of the World? It is very rudimentary, I would say. I have a recording device, a Marantz digital recording device. I take a couple Sennheiser microphones out with me. I have a couple little mic stands. I plug them in, and I'm typically mobile unless somebody offers me their studio space or whatever.

So it's recording to like an SD card? Yeah, an SD card. That's right. And this is sort of like, I guess, the one I'm familiar with, the brand I'm familiar with, is Zoom. Right. Is this like a Zoom?

It's similar to a Zoom, but it predates that by some time. I actually got this device when I worked at News Talk 1010. Okay. Well, if it works. First of all, if it works, it sounds good. Yeah, it sounds pretty good. And it lets you easily go remote? It does.

And I've used it throughout my entire career everywhere. Everywhere from somebody like Mel Brooks and Julie Andrews to Leon Redbone to, you know, whoever I've, you know, had to be remote with, I've always used it and it's, it's served me well. And I thought, well, I don't currently, you know, have the funds to build a studio right now, but I still have this rig and I've been using it for all the episodes of Art at the End of the World, of which there are two now. I was going to say all the episodes. You dropped one literally hours ago. It's true. And that was episode two.

Ten, and I'm calling it season one, the season, and we've got a great lineup. So tell me why you're doing the seasons thing. Is that just because it makes... I never understood the seasons in podcasts. Right. Help me understand. Well, I mean, really, it's helped me understand well i mean really it's more of uh convenience for me than anything i felt like i don't know how long i'll be able to sustain doing this obviously it's not you know uh paying all the bills or anything

like that it's brand new i do have some great support some wonderful sponsors but uh and and a patreon account so patreon.com slash art at the end of the world if you want to check that out. But it is something I thought, let's get 10 of the people that I'm fascinated by. Let's do it right as best I can

for the first season. And if there's interest and if I can still retain sponsorship and so on, then I'd love to continue in some format or maybe even do something a little different.

So these initial 10 guests, you cherry-picked them. I did, which was nice. Amazing. And are they all people that you already knew? Some I knew, some I had just admired from afar. I mean, Cameron Bailey is a guy that I've always thought I'd love to talk to, and now that he's co-head at TIFF, I thought, this is a guy who has had an interesting rise

to this moment. And with the film industry changing the way it is, I mean, we're looking at a Netflix film that's pretty much the favorite to be a take-home best picture. Yeah, Roma, yeah. Roma, it's a foreign film. I mean, there's a lot happening in film right now. It's black and white.

It's not in English. It's in Spanish. And it's not Netflix. It's a Netflix film. This is a game changer. It's black and white. It's not in English. It's in Spanish. And it's not Netflix. This is a game changer. It is a game changer. I can't wait to talk to him because I know he's going to have some reflections on the changing face of the film landscape,

the media landscape, everything that's... I mean, if you watch award shows now, it's pretty clear that Hollywood is trying to change its look and agenda and how it reflects society in a more appropriate way. So he's got a lot to think about as he moves one of the biggest film festivals in the world forward. And really the theme of the show is, as it sounds, I mean, we're at a moment right now where there's a lot of difficulty politically.

We're seeing huge sea changes all around the world ecologically. We're seeing cultural tipping points everywhere. Obviously, things like the Me Too movement and a change in faces in important places like CEOs and politicians and so on. So there's a lot happening all at once. And so I wanted to get artists and entertainers and cultural thinkers in to talk not only about their careers but also how they're reflecting on what's an overwhelming time, I would suggest.

What are your thoughts on, I'm always curious about this, optimal length for an episode? Like I mentioned, unlike this one where we're going to go on tangents and go off and then come back and then whatever.

And this episode will be as long as it is. Like it might be. I have noticed that you've gone like two or three hours and sometimes shorter and you know. It really, I don't go into this. Like I know the episode will be at least an hour because I know it'll be probably 90 minutes. But depending on, you know, I don't have a set time unless you tell me I have, I got to be at, you know. A window, sure.

Yeah. I got to be at CBC at noon or whatever. And it's like, okay, this episode will be a little shorter, but, uh, or unless you're a Roger Ashby who came in and said, I have exactly 30 minutes. You can ask me anything you want for 30 minutes. And I said, okay, that's what we're doing this time. But what is, what is your thoughts on length of art at the end of the world? Well, I sort of cut my teeth on podcasts with Mark Marin and I'm a fan and i still am a fan and obviously things have changed dramatically for him since the beginning of that that podcast but i sort of liked that hour chat um that works for me and that's what i've modeled this after uh so you aim for an an hour and that includes the sponsor mentions and everything uh

so i think the new episode is like an hour 25, so obviously I went... That's closer to 90 minutes, Mark. I did go over. The first one was an hour 13. So yeah, I'm looking at maybe an hour for the conversation plus whatever it takes to fulfill

other parts of the podcast needs. And those Sennheiser mics, are these the same ones you had back in the day? Or have you changed those up? I think I maybe have one newer one and then one older one. And it's just kind of what I have lying around. Okay, now here's a real nuts and bolts question.

So are they handheld or do you put them on a stand? I put them on a little stand, yeah. And we've recorded everywhere from people's kitchens to offices, spaces, to dining rooms, my own dining room, wherever we can find a place that's relatively quiet and kind of go from there. Okay, I have more Art at the End of the World questions later, but I wanted to start with that. Thank you. Did you drive here? I did drive here.

Okay. I'm going to tell you about a really amazing new service from a company called Buckle. B-U-K-L dot C-O. That's B-U-K-L dot C-O. You go to Buckle dot C-O. You enter. Let's say you need some. First of all, you need to have some work required on your car.

You need something fixed or repaired. You go to buckle.co and you enter what your car make, model, year, and then what service you need, and then you get instant quotes from shops in your area, so in your neighborhood. And you can book that appointment right away through the web interface, and then all you have to do is bring in your car, it gets serviced, and then all you have to do is bring in your car, it gets serviced and then you drive away. You don't even have to, the payment is even automatically seamlessly done through this

application. So try buckle.co the next time you need any repairs done on your car and you can thank me later. Sounds pretty handy. For sure. Toronto Mike. I don't know how old your car is. Pretty new.

Okay, so you don't have too many worries at this point. Although you can probably use it for things like oil change and stuff too. But my old car, it's literally, I actually wonder how much longer it will live. I really enjoy driving it. I love how it drives and I've driven it for 20 years. Can you believe that? It's pretty great. But it's physically falling apart. It's rusting out and parts of it are falling off. And I've driven it for 20 years. Can you believe that? It's pretty great. But it's physically falling apart.

It's rusting out and parts of it are falling off. And I don't know what to do. Well, normally you would maybe decide on a new car or something. Do people do that? I don't even know. I just assumed you bought a car for life. What is this? 20 years.

That's how I grew up in Victoria with my family, for sure. I mean, we'd just hang on to a Chevy Impala for as long as it could possibly go. Oh I thought they were all cabs or cop cars the Impalas. Yeah right. That's true. Sorry to interrupt you there Mark. Not at all my friend. I had already pressed the button though. I'm glad you did.

You wanted some chamber brothers. Stop me from talking please. We're going to hear lots more from you but i want to play remember the time i love this so on this day and you're a big music guy on this day 50 years ago 50 years ago today the number one song on the billboard hot 100 was this. Oh. Now I don't hardly know her. But I think I could love her. Crimson and clover. Tommy James and the Shondells

Crimson and Clover 50 years ago today 69 a lot of memories from 50 years ago that will be put forth through pop culture this year Woodstock being one of them you're right

yes and of course, someone got their first six-string. Something happened this summer. I remember Mr. Adams speaking about that. I always thought he might have been a little young. No, he is. That's for sure. That's for sure.

If you do the math on that, he was a little young for that story. Did you know Ryan Adams and Brian Adams have the same birthday? I did know that. Yeah. I've seen both of them perform over the years. They should do a tour together.

That'll never happen. Because Brian's on the road now, right? Brian's been pretty busy with his some sort of anniversary tour. And in fact, I think he just shot the latest cover of Zoomer magazine with Tina Turner on there. He does all that photography work, right? So, yeah. He continues to be a busy man. Talented guy.

And Corey Hart's hitting the road soon. Corey Hart's hitting the road? I don't know if Brian listens, but I know Corey Hart listens to Toronto Mike. Very nice. Isn't that amazing? That's incredible. That to me is amazing.

Can't say fucks to the boy in the box. Do you know who the boy in the box is? No. Steve Anthony. Oh, really? Yes. He's a guy I've worked with a the boy in the box. Do you know who the boy in the box is? No. Steve Anthony. Oh, really? Yes. He's a guy I've worked with a little bit over the years. Where did you cross paths with Steve?

That would have been in my standard radio days, a.k.a. News Talk 1010, and he was working at Mixed 99.9. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. And this is like St. Clair and Young? St. Clair and Young.

Classic location. No longer exists as we know it today. I was up there to... I want to get my fax right here. This is... Yeah, I was there to witness a live morning show on Easy Rock. Easy Rock. Part of the Tri-Station Klingonomerate up there.

Yeah. Right. Because Virgin... Was it Virgin or Mix? I think it was Mix 99.9 at the time. Yeah. I canamerate up there. Right. Because Verge was a version of our mix. I think it was Mix 99.9 at the time. Yeah. I can't remember

when that switched over. And then yeah, and 1010. So those are the three that were there. Crimson and Clover, by the way, before I stop,

before it ends here, is I was watching this show on Netflix called Sex Education. Very good. It's got Scully from X-Files is in it. It's very good. But there was a cover

of Crimson and Clover that was played and I thought it was pretty cool. So anyway, Tommy James and the Shondells was number one 50 years ago. Remember the Time is brought to you by Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years.

If you go to a Fast Time location, you go to FastTimeWatchRepair.com to find out where they are. They just opened a new location in Richmond Hill. Go to a FastTime watch and jewelry repair location and you can get your watch battery replaced while you wait and get 15% off if you just mentioned that you heard about them on Toronto Mike. So that's pretty cool. So thank you Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. I'll point out that the end of that song sounds a lot like Adam Sandler's

Hanukkah song. It's pretty much the exact same chord progression. That's where Sandler got it. Good to know. Good year. One of my favorite guests on this show was John Donabee. John Donabee. John Donabee. Ever heard of this guy?

I have. Know him well. So I'm not even sure of the chronological order. You've had many stops in Toronto Radio. And chronologically, maybe, what's your first stop in Toronto Radio? That's the first one. So I nailed it. You did.

And it was a funny time. I was working about four different jobs. I was working at a mutual fund company as a customer service agent on Bay Street. Then I was working at an all-night crazy nightclub. It was called This Is London. I don't know if you remember. It was on Richmond Street. It was this bizarre three-level nightclub, and I was doing that. I was working at a coffee shop with my friend Rachel Noonan, who's become one of the big wigs over at TIFF. And so it was really a formative time. And I remember just wandering around the city and looking at posters for radio

stations. And I saw one for Ted Wallachian and CFRB. And I thought, well, that looks kind of up my alley. I had worked at a news talk station in Victoria called AM 900, which was a Rogers station. And I had a show and I worked the afternoon drive as a producer and so on. And, and I thought, well, I have, I have a little bit of a resume that they might be interested here. And I'll never forget. I, I finally got my little meeting with Nick Mirano and Steve Couch and I spelled Steve Couch's name wrong on my resume. I think I just thought couch, right? Like you would write the furniture piece. But no, so that was hilarious.

He thought that was really funny. Although he didn't think it was funny at the time. Although later when I would talk to him about it, he thought it was funny. And then, so they offered me overnights and that's where I first met Jim Richards because he was doing the night side and people like Bill Carroll and Ryan Doyle

and Mike Bendixon and a whole incredible group of people, Makai Taggart and all sorts of people that have gone on to amazing, have amazing careers. I was at a, whenever the Argos were last in the Eastern Conference final, which was not last season at all, I was in the clubhouse, not the art. Like I was in the, yeah, I guess the clubhouse or whatever at that game. And Jim Richards and Mekhi Taggart were there as well. They've been known to chum around those two.

Yeah. Yeah. We all had dinner together last year for Jim's birthday, which was kind of nice. Cool. And you mentioned Strombo earlier, but doesn't Strombo, don't they go off to like, I seem to remember them going to like, don't know dublin for yeah you're pretty tuned into this yeah well i i'm just following on twitter yeah right well yeah they're good friends and uh and that's how i sort

of know george and and um yeah they're they're great pals they've traveled and done all kinds of things together for sure they were fan 590 people that's right yeah they knew each other through work and it's the it stuck from there, for sure. Oh, and the other guy, yeah, Merrick was there, too. Jeff Merrick. But Merrick moved to, I think he moved to Stouffville or something. Mario Carlucci, John Moore, who's still there, obviously.

John Oakley was there. A lot of the famous old news guys. Taylor Parnaby. Yeah, it was an interesting time to be there because it was really the end of that heritage station level of interest that was there. I mean, at one point, people like Gordon Sinclair and so on had had this 50% share, and they were really still working off were really, uh, still working off that legacy and it was great. It was fantastic. I mean, I have to say it was one of the most difficult jobs I've ever had in the business because you were dealing with breaking news and they were asking a lot of you, uh, with chase producing and producing and being able to be, for me, it was, it was a chance to

become an arts and culture reporter pretty quickly. And obviously then get a chance to, to sit down and work with Donabee for six years, which was, you know, one of the best experiences I've ever had in broadcasting. Okay, so is this the weekend morning show? This is the weekend morning show, that's true. And he was a number one morning show. And Maury Sherman at that time, who's, you know, still very well known in the business. Is he with Roz and Mocha?

He is, yeah, with his incredible amount of uh social media followers and i occasionally still the camera on his head what's his nickname again uh geez oh he's got a nickname and uh it changed i remember but uh anyway we worked together briefly but he was doing that show and they needed somebody new and and donabee didn't really know me but he just sort of had a hunch that I might be the right fit for the thing. I had an interest in music and older music and a sense of arts and culture. And so he thought I might be the right guy. And it worked out to be a really fantastic six years together for sure. And I think about the people that we had.

I mean, that was such a training ground for me. We had members of the band. Robbie Robertson was in there. Well, yeah, cause Donovy's like, Levon Helm was Levon's buddy. Garth Hudson,

Rompin Ronnie Hawkins. I remember we had Eric Idle in there, Tony Bennett, Davey Jones from the Monkees. Maybe the most difficult interview I've ever dealt with. Is that right? What was, why?

He wasn't interested in playing? Yeah, he was having a hard time that day. And he just didn't want to, you could tell he was just over being a monkey, yet he was still making the bulk of his money from being a monkey. Right, of course. So there was some difficulty there.

Harry Connick Jr., Mel Brooks, the great Julie Andrews. I mean, we just had so many people walk through those doors. And for me, it was just such a special, special time. And of course, John is just such a pro. I mean, what pipes and what a legacy. And he's an incredible broadcaster, to be sure. He really is. It's only less than a year ago, I want to say, that he actually was on CIUT fairly recently.

Mixed bag. Yeah. Yeah, right, right. And now I think now he's, again, we mentioned Ashby earlier, but I think when Donabee left Toronto Radio, Ashby took on the, like the longest serving member of like Toronto Terrestrial Radio crown or whatever, although he's gone now too.

So I don't know who has it now. They had a big to do for him, didn't they? It was quite the show. What I was able to see on social media, my invite must've got lost in the mail. Well, where's my invite? Donnie became on this show and spilled the beans.

He revealed, because he's friends with Ashby, that Ashby would be leaving his post by the end of the year, he said. So in December 2018. And it turned out to be very true. Johnny's been known to have a couple rumors up his sleeve.

You know, that's to be sure. Here's what I like about Donabee. Okay, I only met him the one time. It was a great, great chat. But he knew I was interested in like talking to some radio legends and stuff. And he got me on the list. You know that party they have, Roy Thompson Hall?

They have a radio insider party. Wow. And I got on the list you know that party they have uh roy thompson hall they have a radio insider party wow and i got on the list so i come to this and not only am i the only like non-radio guy there uh but i'm like by far the youngest human being in that room you know there's a lot of white hair in there and sure i mean there you go it says something about our business a little bit but uh the i will say good old radio hey it, but I did see Alan Cross there, and he's under 60, so they weren't all... And back at work, right?

I mean, he's doing the Q thing and all that stuff. Yeah, he's imaging both stations, and he's still doing the ongoing history of new music, but Alan Cross always has like 100 things up his sleeve. I was about to say,

back at work is the wrong way to... I mean, that man is very busy, and I could only hope to have a career like his, but, uh, yes, he is. Uh, I just mean we're,

we're sort of getting a fresh look at his work and his, uh, his stylings. That's to be sure. But I mean, like him, you have, and I will say this cause,

uh, we're at minute 55 here, but you have a, you have a good set of pipes on you. Thank you. You really do, uh, have a presence and it makes sense. You you have a good set of pipes on you. Thank you. You really do have a presence. It makes sense you'd have a podcast, and it makes sense you'd be all over the radio. So you're at 1010, which at the time, I guess, was CFRB.

I mean, it's still CFRB, but I don't think it was News Talk yet, right? I think they changed it about halfway through. Yeah. Or it might have been the entire time. But like I say, wonderful experience. And just those years with John really set me up for everything that I was going to do afterwards. But yeah, it was really, they got me in there and a lot of elbow grease was used up while I was there for those six years. Is it true that that was the last music-focused show on CFRB?

Is that true? that that was the last music-focused show on CFRB. Is that true? That probably is true, although I would argue that Bill King and Ted Wallachian's Saturday show seems to be fairly music-heavy. That's true. I don't know if you could really make that argument,

but we played a lot of music on the show and so on. Shout out to Bill King, who has a new photography book coming out, and he's going to come on and talk about it, but he's going to kick out the jams too. But, uh, and also Ted Wallachian has never been on the show,

but he's, he's coming, like he's making his Toronto Mike debut in a couple of weeks. That's a big one. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lots to talk about there. But,

uh, but yeah, so Donabee, uh, I guess I'm very curious, like, uh, the whole world of like being a CFRB producer.

Can you, can you peel back the curtains a bit and just maybe nerd us out a little bit? The one thing I'll say about what I was doing with that show was pretty unique in the landscape of what was available. For most people, I'm producing a talk show or I'm doing a morning show where I've got a lot of news-heavy interviews.

We weren't doing that. We had maybe a little bit of that if we had to. But generally, it was arts, entertainment, culture, lifestyle. So, you know, items you'd want to hear about on your weekend, on your morning off. That was the tone of the show. And so it was just me. I was both the chase producer, operator, researcher. You know, I wrote a lot of the interviews. I was both the chase producer, operator, researcher. I wrote a lot of the interviews. I wrote a lot of the intros and extros. John obviously would have final say on what he wanted to do with it. I booked all the guests. And so it was really my baby to mold and create with. And I look back at that experience now as absolutely defining because I've been doing the

exact same thing ever since and people have really come to me saying hey you're kind of the complete package so um let's you know why don't you rejig this show or why don't you work on this and um it's i have to say if you're a young broadcaster and you and even if you're getting into podcasting the more you can do in this business and i mean people are asking for this now. The more of the one-man band routine or one-woman band, it's a benefit for sure to be able to have that much because it gives you control.

And also, I would imagine, only because one of the things I love most about Toronto Mic is I do A to Z. I schedule the guests. I do the sponsor. I sell the sponsor's spots. I do the engineering, recording, editing sponsor spots, I do the engineering, recording, editing,

I do it all, XML, whatever. I would imagine that doing what you were doing there on the Donabee show on 1010 there, that's exciting, right?

Like to touch all different parts. Well, you became very protective of it too. I mean, other people would, maybe I'd go away

for a week. You know, I think they gave me the 1.5 weeks vacation in those days. Yeah, it was no more than two. That's for for sure and and so i would go off and i remember being very protective of what was going to happen and to the point where i would almost book ahead and write ahead and just have everything done for whoever was going to take over

as i just didn't really trust it in anybody else's hands. And that maybe says more about me as a control freak than anything. But for me, it was very important to keep the quality of the show up, you know, no matter what. And you know what? It was the number one, you know, morning show at the time. And it was beating out big players like CBC and so on. Yeah, and I guess they have their fresh air and all these kind of things. Exactly.

Yeah, excellent. Which is still going today. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah I guess they have their fresh air and all these kind of things. Yeah, excellent. Which is still going today. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Very good. Okay, so there was a CFRB experience. And then is it next that you go to CBC? Next was Proud FM.

Proud FM. Okay, yeah. Which was a wild time. I had sort of left abruptly from CFRB and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. So why did you leave? I had really wanted to be a full-time arts and culture guy there. And with John Moore

taking on an afternoon drive at that point before he became the morning show host, there was seemingly a spot available. And I really pressed the powers that be to put me there. And it seemed like it was going to happen. And then at the it was going to happen. And then at the last minute, they kind of said, you know what, this isn't the right time.

And it was actually kind of pretty terse. And I thought, well, that's it for me. And I handed in my resignation. And at that point, I was on five days a week reporting on the arts on different programs. At events like TIFF, I was on all three radio stations. And to me, it just seemed ridiculous. I was basically doing this for free and I needed this to move my career forward

and it just wasn't going to happen. So I had to make a quick decision. And so I did. And I really had nowhere to go, but I had heard inklings that there was this new LGBT-focused radio station opening up. And I knew they might need somebody

with some pretty hardcore radio skills, and I thought, okay, I'll see if they're interested. So you know my buddy Bob Willett. I do. Bingo Bob, we call him. Yes, Bingo. I guess he was more well-known as Bingo Bob at the time. Oh, that's only from the Humble and Fred show.

Yeah, it was. I think Humble gave him that nickname. Early days. But yeah, Robille and um the original team yeah that was it was rob bob and rob and ken and mary joe in the morning of course deb pierce in the afternoon maggie casella in the afternoon as well and cashmere ray uh doing dj work at night So that was the original group. We were down at Church and Wellesley. And it was, once again, I mean, the one thing I'll say about Proud of Family, it was a startup.

The signal was low, but they had a lot of talent and a lot of energy. And it really had the, you had the feeling like it was going to be something great. But there were just some functionality aspects of it that just wouldn't allow it, you know, people couldn't hear it. You know, those would be the types of problems we were facing.

And I have to say, as a guy who was in my 30s at that point who thought, oh, maybe I'm, you know, calming down a little, settling in, you know, yeah, throw yourself into an LGBT-focused radio station and see how calm your life becomes. I have to say it was a very, very wild three years. And eventually I settled into an afternoon drive co-host spot with Sean Peru. And so the two of us did it for three years. Yeah, I mean, maybe I know too much of the insides of working for the Evanoff group or whatever, but I can imagine that it would be always interesting, I would think.

How's that? What do you do? Just finish a Diplomatics 101 over there? I was trying to think, where do I go with here? And I said, I'm going with interesting. So I made that call on the line of script. It was a weird combination, actually. The management team was Evanov and another group of independent investors.

That was how it was explained to us. And so it was very tricky because what would happen is management would actually switch back and forth every six months between these two groups of people. Really? I don't think I knew that. Yeah, and they had a different...

I thought it was all just Evanoff Group. Different focus, different style of marketing and advertising. And we would have these meetings sort of saying, okay, well, we're refreshing again. And we would have these meetings sort of saying, okay, well, we're refreshing again. And it was like, well, no, what's happened is they're legally binded to keep trading the authority over this thing.

Well, that's unique. It was very unique. I'd never seen anything like that. So this was like they had to do this, I guess, under the deal? I mean, we really kept our head in the sand about it. Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to do that. No. We really tried to focus on being the greatest program we could be.

And Sean was such a fascinating lead host in the sense that he hadn't been on radio before. He had a very relaxed and sort of, you know, shoot off the cuff kind of a vibe to how he handled being the host there. But we had a really good rapport, and we had so much fun, and we would do trips to Vegas and work on the Friends for Life bike rally. And because we didn't have the numbers, but we could get anybody who thought the idea

that an LGBT-focused radio station was cool. And so we had the Golden Girls were on. And I'm trying to remember. I remember getting Ani DiFranco on. And I remember getting Lights. So there was a lot of people from that world, from the music world, and from a band like D-Light would be on, that sort of idea. So people just were excited about it because it was this new idea, new concept for radio.

And so you could kind of get a lot of fascinating interviews, especially just to get them in the door. It was great. Listen, that Groove Is In The Heart was a great jam. I mean, Q-Tips on there and Bootsy Collins. I'm trying to remember her name. Lady. Yeah.

It'll come to me in a moment. But she was a fascinating person to speak with. My goodness. I can imagine. She had this amazing accent, this sort of New York accent. I think she's from New York. Yeah. And she was really into being artistic and just living this sort of Andy Warhol style life.

And she was fascinating. I loved talking to her. Yeah. Delight. really into being artistic and just living this sort of Andy Warhol style life. I loved talking to her. Yeah, delight. I mean, if you want to ask me another question, I'll look up her name if you want. Look up her name because it'll drive me crazy for the remainder of this episode. By the way, I'll tell you

a little quick story while you look it up. I was the digital producer for the humble and fred podcast okay 2006 right uh and we needed a place we used to record at dan duran's house and then uh dan duran is west toronto home he had a studio we used to do it there and then he moved to like near peterborough or something and we had a we needed a new home but of course humble and fred were friends with uh bingo bob so on a weekend we would all go to proud fm and use your studio to record a humble and fred podcast how weird is that i know and it was between it was from you know you were there from 07 to 2010 yeah it was in that uh time period uh that we were

doing it so lady miss keir. There you go. Sorry if everybody was going mad knowing the answer to that. Of course, there's always some people yelling at it. Listen, at least we looked it up. Usually that just lingers forever and then later I have to deal with the comments and tweets. Say the name again, Lady?

Lady Miss Keir. Lady Miss Keir. I do have a quick funny story about a guest there, which was Leon Redbone. Okay. I knew that that was not an interview that necessarily needed to be played on Proud of Him, but I was such a huge fan, and he was coming to town. And I remember I was booking the interview, and I thought, well, I'll just play it at some point. I don't know when.

Maybe around Christmastime, because everybody loves those Leon Redbone Christmas records. Christmas time because everybody loves those Leon Redbone Christmas records. Right. And I was booking the interview through the great Richard Flo Hill, the promoter and manager and music man of many, many decades. And he says to me, Mark, I don't know if you know, but Leon Redbone's politics is somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. And I'll never forget that line. I don't know that that's actually true,

but I tried to solve those worries and say, don't worry, I think I'm not going to focus on anything particular. We're just going to talk about his career. Gotcha. It was fine. What a kick to speak to that guy. Oh, my gosh. Amazing, amazing.

And Proud FM, you were there until 2010. So what happens then? Proud FM kind of has a blow-up. Yeah, I know. I remember this. This is a budgetary thing, right? Yes, I guess. I mean, they always are, right?

They always come down to some kind of money. But the group, we didn't really love the way there was some kind of strange requests being made. We weren't being asked into meetings and so on and so forth. So we said, look, can we have a meeting to talk about some of these new changes that are coming in our way? And they didn't agree that that should happen. So we were all fired. The bulk of the on-air staff were fired with cause and it was a tricky situation. But luckily you would never again be at a station where such a thing.

I've had more blow ups in my time. Let me tell you. But yeah, that was really tough actually, because I felt like we deserved at least an audience to have a discussion. But you know, I think everybody's responsible in a situation like that. And we dealt with it obviously was dealt with in a situation like that. And we dealt with it, obviously. It was dealt with in court and so on. And then CBC came along.

And so that's what happened there. And really, you know, your subject matter and, I mean, yeah, you're a great fit at Proud FM, but you're an even better fit, I think, at CBC. Well, the nice part of Proud FM is that they allowed me to be their arts editor there. And as the only straight guy on air in that group of... Is that right? Because what about the morning show?

Ken and Mary Jo, you're up. I guess you're right. You're right. But that's a good point. But they didn't do it for very long, right? And so there was a time when that was actually true. And so there was a time when that was actually true. And so, yeah, so for them to allow me to have that position was fantastic

and I really did try to honor the situation. But at the same time, I could understand, like, you know, you maybe want to shift those duties at some point. So probably the years I did it was long enough. Not that they ever continued that position once I was gone. So CBC was a situation did it was long enough. Not that they ever continued that position once I was gone. But so CBC was a situation where it was very much, we need a producer to help out the

afternoon drive spot, which was CBC Music Drive with Richard Turfri. And I would go on to do that. AKA Buck 65. Correct. Correct, Armando. We worked together for four years at the CBC. And what a fantastic experience that was. I mean, they really invest in their broadcasters there.

They invest in their producers. Even at that time when it was a conservative government and CBC was, you know, just bleeding money everywhere, you really felt like they were looking out for you to be as good as you could be and be as professional as you could be. And, um, you know, I came in sort of from the private world and I think they were looking for somebody to help out that show at that time and, and sort of pump some new life into it and, and come up with some different ideas for what, how it could sound and how, how rich could be a host. And so that's what I came to do. And while you're at CBC, you would show up on shows like Fresh Air and Metro Morning and Here and Now and Big City, Small World, etc.

Yeah, it was nice. It was a good chance. I mean, they didn't have to let me do that. But Mark Steinmetz and Anne McKeegan, Anneckeegan who runs cbcq new a q now and uh mark who who runs cbc music and a lot of the streaming and you know runs the junos and all those types of you know they were pretty good about letting me um uh you know expand my horizons and try different things and so that was a situation where I would go down to Radio 1 and review films and talk about arts and culture and music and documentaries. I had a syndicated documentary review column

that went across the country. And as well, on CBC Music, they allowed me to try a few things too. So I had a show called The Incident and one called Tales from the Tour Bus. And they were both these features where you would speak to musicians about crazy things that had happened to them on the road.

And it was a lot of fun to put together. I was joking with somebody yesterday that the Tom Wilson story I couldn't put on the air because it was so crazy. Which specifically the Tom Wilson story? Well, I can't tell it on the air here either. It's no fun. I know. Why would I tease that? it on the air here either. It's no fun. I know.

Why would I tease that? You know what? What have I done? You know what? I'm this guy. This is Tom Wilson's artwork here for the Mohawk album. What a guy. Yeah.

He's one of my favorites. You want to talk about a pair of pipes. My goodness. Holy smokes. And he read an excerpt from his book, Beautiful Scars, I think. That's the one great book if you haven't read it. And he was reading just about how when you saw the Tragically Hip back in the day,

and he was reading it because he knows I'm a big Gordani Tragically Hip fan. And man, you just kind of close your eyes and listen to him read. It's something else. Like those pipes are incredible. Yeah. That was the first joke I made with him

during my first interview with him. I guess technically my second, but when I had him on at Jazz, he started speaking. I'm like, maybe you should just

take over here. You know, it's pretty incredible. Especially when you're wearing headphones and you hear, and you talk to him, it's almost,

you can get kind of lost in it and you're like, you forget to almost pay attention to what he's saying. Like, you can read a phone book

and you'll be like enthralled or whatever. I was in admiration of the voiceover fellow that was calling the game last night, actually. Not the actual, but sort of announcing. Oh, the Tony Romo? No, no, no. Not the guys calling the game, but the guys actually announcing,

okay, now we're going to hear the national anthem. Here comes the halftime show. This guy had the deepest pipes. It was unbelievable. Yeah, I wish I had pipes like that. It would change everything. It's true. I would never shut up

if I sounded like that. Do movie trailers. Monday. Oh, yeah. In a world. In a world. They don't do those anymore, though. You know what I mean?

Yes, you're right. Now they keep them very simple. You know, Monday, everything changes. You know, it's more like that. I think it's even less. I think they drop the whole voiceover thing and they just kind of show, it's just more like that I think it's even less I think they drop the whole voiceover thing

and they just kind of show it's just more like a score and like scenes like I saw the Avengers teaser and yeah there's not not much to it

no it's not like the old days it's funny when you watch something from the 80s now a trailer from the 80s and how much talking there is it's unbelievable yeah and it's like one guy

was doing most of them or whatever amazing in a world in a world those In a world. Those are great shows, I got to say. Like Fresh Air is great. I like Fresh Air, but Metro Morning and Here and Now,

like these are... Yeah. And I just wonder, like, what's it like going from, I'm guessing, something more loosey-goosey, I'm guessing, I don't know, I never worked there, but Proud FM to the CBC? Like it just, that must be a dramatic shift. It goes, yes, yes and no. I mean, on one hand, you're in these big studios at the CBC

and it just, you know, CBC is a grand building and they built it to be, you know, this national broadcast center. And it really is, you know, as much as it's been changed up and they've had to change the real estate around there over the years, it still is, you know, awe-inspiring in its own way. That being said, I had done so much of it at News Talk 1010 in equally sort of beautiful and stern studios, you know, studios that commanded a certain respect and a level of broadcasting that was important to adhere to. And so I just felt like I want to be myself, but I also want to respect this place.

And certainly I tried my best with CBC. Yeah, but you could get yourself into a tizzy over your one spot on Metro Morning or what have you. Well, that's it. Like Metro Morning, for example, I don't know how many people work on that show, but there are morning shows in the city where it's literally

maybe one or two people doing, like you mentioned at 1010 when you did lots of different things, right? Where meanwhile, at CBC, I mean,

it's very scripted. There's a bunch of bodies like working on this show. There really is. I mean, I worked next door to CBC Radio's queue for the entire time

that I was there. Their studio was right next door and those were during the gian gomeshi days and um it was something to behold i mean there was this just huge network of producers and uh you know managers and talent and technicians it really was i mean when you are making a show that does have this international interest, you'd think you want a lot of people pulling together. Well, you can't just do what we're doing now, right? No.

You can't just say, hey, let's start recording and see where it goes. We have a few notes here to make sure I don't skip anything important. But, yeah. It is interesting, though, as listening habits change, how shows like these more traditional shows will deal with how to deal with conversation and how natural they want it to be. I mean, you can tell the difference between the broadcast sheen of an important interview on a news talk morning show or a CBC compared to what certainly compared to what we're doing here. Oh, for sure. But popularity, you know, what people actually listen to is king.

So habits are changing for sure. You're right. I think there's something to be said for authenticity in that people, when they realize they can, once they hear more authentic conversation, they'll be able to tell the difference

between something that's more PR, soundbite-y, form-scripted stuff in an actual conversation where you react to the answer and you follow that up. And anyway, it's different. I think you're absolutely right. That authenticity is what has made

the podcast world pop over the last 10 years and only more so now. I mean, it's fascinating to listen to something like what they do with the New York Times, where it is well put together and well scripted, but they do have elements of being out in the field and so on. So you are getting more of these hyper-packaged offerings in the podcast world. But I think what made it famous is what you're talking about, these off-the-cuff, emotional, let's-get- let's get down to the nitty-gritty real conversations and that's certainly what attracted me so that's what i'm doing yeah well

you are and one more stop before we get you back to art at the end of the world and i was gonna say about the length is joe rogan apparently can go four hours i've heard that i mean like because i got like if people are like how am i gonna ty Tyler Stewart came on and it went two and a half hours. And that's just how long it went. And I think, I honestly don't know, if I had to cut two minutes out of there, I don't know where I would cut. So, it was two and a half hours. But, you know, Rogan, he just does the same

thing. He'll go four hours, whatever. But, okay, enough about Rogan. Let's get back to Wigmore here. I think he's the number one podcaster. He's right up there. Yeah, he's right up there. You mentioned Mark Maron and Joe Rogan. These guys are heavyweights in the burgeoning space. No kidding. Yeah.

I mean, they run the joint for sure. And they get big. I mean, I get Mark Wigmore, which I'm very excited about, but they get like Barack Obama. You know what I mean? Like there's a big yes coming over. I mean, that changed everything for WTF. That's for sure. Yeah.

It was a game changer. So one more stop before. So why do you leave CBC? Well, this job becomes available that I can't even believe exists. I really had been in that position in my career where I had been covering the arts in one format or another for many different organizations, as we've talked about CBC, Rogers, Evanoff, We talked about CBC Rogers, uh, Evanoff, uh, on and on it went, uh, standard, you know? Right. So, but I, I had been, you'd go to TIFF or you'd be at a screening or at a musical theater production.

And I've run into people who I respected a lot, who this was their gig. They were doing this full time and they were really able to dig their, you know, heels and, and, and get, you know, kind of get, get to use some elbow grease and get into the arts and culture world and be paid for it. And that was who they were. And I had always dreamed that I might be able to do that at some point. And suddenly this job becomes available at Jazz FM 91. And I couldn't, to me, it didn't even seem like a real job. I really thought, this doesn't, they don't still do this anywhere.

I mean, people in other places were being let go from their spots as arts critics or commentators. So anyway, I applied. And I'll tell you a funny little story, actually. This is a cute story that I've never told before. Let's hear it. Save this gem for you, Mike. Thank you.

But they asked you to write a little questionnaire, so I wrote it at home, and I needed to print it out. I didn't have a printer, so I thought, well, I'll just, and when I'm at work at CBC today, as I'm leaving, I'll just print out this questionnaire,

and I'll turn it into Jazz FM. So I did, and I go to the printer, and I go to pick it up questionnaire and I'll turn it into Jazz FM. So I did and I go to the printer and I go to pick it up and I see the questionnaire. So I grab it and I sit down and I look at the questionnaire and it is the questionnaire, but it is not my answers.

And I have this moment of panic. I'm thinking, did I somehow get an email of somebody else's or did they send me a PDF that already had the answers? And I quickly look at it and I see the answers are totally different. And I think somebody else here on this floor at CBC has just printed out their questionnaire for this Jazz FM gig.

So I am mortified. I don't know what to do with this thing. It's now in my hand. So I just crumple it up and I throw it in the garbage. And I think, okay, I'm just going to go back to work. And they have yours. No, but I realized mine was underneath.

So I just tucked mine away. And I think to myself, whoever walks up to this printer in the next minute is going to be the person who is also going for this job here on this floor. And who was that? But Garvia Bailey. Oh, wow. Yeah.

So I've never told that story. And if she hears this right now. Well, she's coming on the show. She might get a kick out of that story. But anyway, so I knew that that was my competition and she got it. And so I just continued to work and a couple months later I got a call saying hey you know what we're gonna move Garvey Bailey into the morning show position and we'd love it if you would come and take this this job and so I did I was thrilled

it really was to me a super exciting opportunity and And as far as I'm concerned, it has been one of the best moves in my career, despite how things went in the final year. Okay, yeah. So on that note, so yeah, so Jazz FM 91. I mean, I've talked about, so again, Danny's been on and Heather Bambrick's been on. You've covered the gambit with the-

And I talked to Molly, but Bill King, I had Bill King's two cents on the matter. He didn't hold back. That man shoots from the hip. Yeah. And I don't know. I've been referring to it as a clusterfuck because I'm not sure what the term is for it.

I can call it turmoil or whatever. But it all seems to start, like from my perspective as a guy who's just here at home or whatever, not on the inside. It starts with Danny Elwell just leaving her position. it seems very sudden and she has very little to say about it she's kind of gone and then at some point months later i guess uh there's another wave and i and are you in that neck are you in the garvio bailey wave or i get confused uh there's

multiple ways yeah i mean tell us tell us what you can about what changed at Jazz FM. Well, I'll say that the first thing I did when I got there was I was able to finally launch Arts Toronto, which was our arts and culture-focused hour of interviews. And it was my baby. I worked so hard on it. And people like Danny and Garvia and Shirley Kamiya and people like that, our web team, you know, Jason and Emily,

a lot of people really helped me to make it work and give it a presence. And we did 200 episodes of that and had, I mean, you know, you can actually see the list of who we had on the show on my website, which is artattheendoftheworld.com or wigmoresworld.com. It was fantastic. And, you know, my experience there, generally speaking, was, was pretty good. Um, I met some really good people there, including some of the people you talked about. Um, but yeah, you could just tell in that final year, year and a half before I left, which is sort of 2017, um, you know, early 2017 that, you know, Danny is now thinking about leaving and she, but then wants to be a, continues to be a host. I think she just needed to take a break from a management

level. And then that just didn't pan out. The powers that me made a decision for her to no longer have that presence on the station, which was too bad because Night Lab was a great, great show. And of course, we all know Danny is a fantastic broadcaster and I think one of the best voices in this city. Yeah, she's got a great voice. She really does. So yeah, and then it was just one after the next after that until February, March of last year.

And that's when this collective group got together and put together, you know, basically a complaint about the energy and toxicity of the radio station. And it went forward with an investigation. It's been well documented, I would say, in most of the newspapers, the Star of the globe I think I'm trying to think CBC wrote something about it obviously National Post still doing a lot of talk about the situation at jazz FM but yeah they moved Garvey out of the morning show and that was very very tricky and I did it briefly and then in one big hustle we we were all, most of us.

Brad's still there. Yeah, most of us were shown the door. But I will point out that we did one final fundraising. And that was actually without Garvia. And a very different kind of vibe. But we actually made our goal of $250,000. And then I think it was, what, three days later, they showed us all the door. Man, it smells.

I mean, I'll give you the question I asked James. Were you a member of the collective? I was not a member of the collective. That was a tough decision. And I know, you know, to this day, it's something that really is difficult to talk about. But it was that group of people had been working on that document for a long time. And it was a little bit of a, I don't mind saying an 11th hour situation for me. And a lot of us were in a tough spot where we had to make a decision whether that letter, you know,

spoke for us or if it was a bit too broad or what have you. And ultimately, I had to make a decision. And so I did. I did agree that I would speak with the investigation, which I did. They had an internal investigation, told my story. And the rest is history. It really didn't matter whether you wrote, were part of that group or not. There was people who either were part of it or who weren't,

who were all basically told to leave. So restructured, as they say. Yeah, restructured, the bulk of you. And then Heather Bambrick did survive that restructuring. She was sort of the lone member of that group. She resigned, I guess it was December, I want to say, but it was fairly recently. Very quick turnaround.

Clearly she wanted to be a part of the Jazzcast new website that's available. You know, I asked her straight out, like, did you leave for that? And she claims no, but the timing seems awfully... Well, then not clearly. Bamburs, I apologize. I mean, but it did happen in succession. It did happen, no. The timing,

it did look like she left one for the other, but she says no. But anyway, we'll talk about JazzCast in a minute, but I just want to read. So Brian Hemming, you know this name, Brian? I do, yeah. I've spoken to Brian. So he's from Save Jazz FM.

So here's his quote, just to wrap up the Jazz FM thing. But for more than six months, Jazz FM 91 has faced turmoil. Listeners are upset with programming changes. Donors are not responding to fundraising campaigns, and advertisers are apprehensive. Many of the station's key stakeholders have lost confidence in the board and management. Jazz FM 91's brand is being damaged and the board must be held accountable. So that was, I mean, I know that they got access to the email addresses from the donor list of the radio station yeah uh but where are we at now like what's do you know what the latest

is with the jazz fm well they've presented a new board of directors that they want to put into the current positions that are available and they are asking uh for a meeting there are just potentially two meetings this is only what I've read in the National Post. I do not have the inside track here. But I know they have an annual general meeting that has to happen this month in February

and as well a special meeting to deal with the board issues. So that is going to happen and frankly, as far as I can tell, this is it. I mean, this is what defines the future of Jazz FM 91

and it's going to be very fascinating to see I sadly kind of had to move on with my life I really loved working there and I love the jazz musicians that I had the opportunity to speak with and celebrate and promote I loved it I really did right but but you know um changes are coming one way or the other one way or another so uh i was sad that that happened i was sad that that talented group of people is no longer working together but it seems like everybody's gone and done their own thing so yeah that's so yeah james b is doing something you're doing youtube podcast right and you're doing art at the end of the world but of course of course, I think we alluded to JazzCast. Would you have any interest in doing anything on JazzCast?

Danny and I did talk about it briefly, and there may be an opportunity to put Art at the End of the World, you know, somehow feature, you know, we work back and forth. Like a distribution channel. Something like that. Just some way to help each other out. But I know they have a lot on their plate right now. They're trying to launch.

Apparently they need a toilet or something. That's what I heard. But I mean, their programming looks great. They've got Brendan Canning and they've got Rich Brown. I mean, gosh. And of course, the old Jazz FM team there, Rich Brown, I mean, gosh. And of course, the old Jazz FM team there,

Garvia and Heather and Danny and Walter, Walter Bonafra, all contributing. So it looks very exciting. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of an old radio station I worked at. Well, you know, I guess, did you hear my episode with Heather Bambrick? I did. I did hear bits and pieces of it.

So Marie Slate is thanked on the bottom of JazzCast website. So, okay. So, here's, so I think I did this. There we go.

So, I believe there is, she's helping to fund this operation and at some point when the board and management and Ross

and all that gets cleared out. Well, there's no guarantee of that happening. No, there's no guarantee of that. But if that happens, then maybe JazzCast Plus and maybe people like yourself and James B., etc. become the new Jazz FM 91

on your team. Who knows? How's that? Who knows? I mean, if that's something that ever came up, I mean, I guess I'd have to cross that bridge as it happened. But I do think that they have a long way to go. I mean, you just mentioned a lot of elements that they're facing right now.

I mean, the finance is there. I can't imagine it's an easy situation. They've got an uphill battle, whichever board is in place. And so... And there talent is often the last thing people worry about. So is Brad last man standing? Is that how that Brad Barker is?

As far as the live programming is concerned, yes, absolutely. He really is the last part of that crew. He was there before most of us, too. So I think Brad has had a really, really tough time through that whole situation. But he's a voice of comfort to hundreds of thousands of people every month. And I think if you loved Jazz FM or if you love it still, it's kind of nice to have at least one guy there who you've been able to trust and to bring you that music.

And you know what? I have great affection for Brad and I know it's been tricky for him. And the Pursuit of Happiness is a great band. No kidding. What a year they just had. That Danforth gig they just played was massive. Oh yeah, and you're a Danforth guy, right?

Yeah. What are you doing with the Danforth music hall just played was massive. Oh yeah, and you're a Danforth guy, right? Yeah. What are you doing with the Danforth music hall? Oh, I used to work there. Yeah, I used to be

the media manager there before its incarnation into its current king status as the most used venue. Oh yeah, because Massey's shut down so I guess everything

spills over. Seems to me the location at the docks isn't really being used as much. The Rebel? Yeah, the Rebel Club. It seems to me that the location at the docks isn't really being used as much. The Rebel? Yeah, the Rebel Club. It seems like more of an electronic club these days.

So yeah, Danforth is the place to be, and it was great to work there. I mean, we did some fantastic runs, four nights with Sam Roberts, special fan-only Tragically Hip events that we did. Amazing. Yeah, it was a really, really fun time, but it was also fascinating to see the inner workings

of how a venue like that actually functions on a day-to-day level. I think they're doing really well right now. Cool, cool. So obviously you have to leave Jazz FM. This wasn't, you had to leave. They said leave. It was such a whirlwind i mean i felt so

bad about what was happening to my friends and i know garvia was just in an awful spot you know where they had offered her overnights and they really gave me not too much choice in figuring out what i was i really didn't know if there was still going to be an arts position or not but then i'm being sold why don't you do this morning show? So I really only did it for a little while, and then yes, we did a campaign, and then it was the exodus. Something's wrong. We've got to do it whenever the documentary

comes out. We used to think there would be one about Proud of Him, too. Well, definitely, because this one's a public broadcaster, right? So I think this one's even a little spicy. It's a little more on the radar. Not really. I mean, it's a charity, not for profit,

so it's got those governmental elements, but it also is a commercial station, and it also is listener-supported. It's a real gumbo of finances. It's very unique. For sure, yeah. Because for most listeners of radio, you say, oh, public broadcaster,

and they only think CBC. Like, that's where their brains go. But this is a different unique animal this is a jazz fm model yeah and it was i got really good at uh um obviously you know understanding how that network was put together and and i really felt like i had a i really i loved the place i loved working there and i can tell like i just feel terrible that this happened. And I mean, the other thing I heard a lot as soon as I was gone is like every publicist came to me saying, this is just a tragedy for us

because we don't have this outlet anymore to bring in actors and creators and dancers and movie makers and all these incredible documentarians, people that, you know, very few other people were profiling in this way. No, there's the CBC and you. Like, they're not going to cover that on, I don't know, global news radio or whatever.

Like, yeah, it's all... Yeah, and so I really, you know, for me, arts and culture is all about reflecting back, right? I think it makes us a better society, a more empathetic city and society and group of people, and it helps us digest the big issues around us. And so I've been a supporter simply because I love that feeling

of when you see a great film or a play that really gets you thinking about a specific issue or makes you think about your own life or your own experience and your family and your goings on with people. I think that's a wonderful gift from the arts community. And so it's been really my job to celebrate that. And now we alluded to it earlier, but let's revisit Art at the End of the World. It's your 10-part podcast. And I guess I'm'm curious like these 10 parts from the first season uh are they already all in the can have you recorded them already i've got uh three or four

left so we've got one we're recording this week dj scratch bastard who will be performing uh not too long from now in march at uh kerner hall and i'm excited to i saw him a couple years back with dj jazzy jeff they did a double bill oh yeah i just thought i'd love to talk. I saw him a couple years back with DJ Jazzy Jeff. They did a double bill. Oh, yeah. And I just thought, I'd love to talk to this guy because he's kind of an old school DJ in a lot of ways, you know, working the tables. And he has a lot of fun. I love those guys.

And he's very creative. And, you know, he's kind of a local guy. So him and we're working on Karen Robinson, the wonderful actress from Schitt's Creek and, of course course of many, many theater companies in town. And she's a wonderful, joyful, joyful person. I love talking to her. And I got a couple other ideas up my sleeve, but yeah, John Donabee is going to be on it. The second episode was just launched today. So if you want to check it out, Chris Locke,

the comedian from Baroness Von Sketch, and he's been on, what else, Mr. D, and he's on Funny or Die. He's a wonderful comedian, stand-up comedian. How often do you release your episodes? Like every week? So I'm doing a weekly one, and then I'm also, on Thursdays, I'm doing what I'm calling the bonus round. And it's usually a little bit of a juicy piece of content from the first interview. I need to talk to you about this interview yeah i have a note here because uh i believe you're uh it's an interesting move and it makes me wonder if i should do something like that so it's basically you need to be a patron to

get access to this right you do if i if i give you early access but then i actually am putting it out to the general public because okay what you're doing is like for example chris lock yeah your second episode's guest he's a comedian and you'll do your i would call a deep dive and you do your hour plus or almost 90 minutes i guess of chris or whatever but then you'll do this separate piece uh where let's say it's i would consider it like kick out the comedy jams okay that's exactly right right so for him he we when we first met 15 years ago he would tell me about his favorite comedy records and i thought this is great i'm going to get him to get list his top five and we'll play a little bit from the record and and that's going to be the bonus round with chris lock on thursday so so that makes sense if you're trying to give some bonus incentive to some added

incentive to become a patron hold on to that you're really digging in here well only because it might that might be my favorite part of all of it. I like the deep dive, but I love let me hear, what do you think? Hey, Chris, comic guy, what are your five favorite comedy bits of all time or whatever? To me,

you're bearing the lead. This is the good stuff right here. It's available to everybody. Last week we had Britta Johnson, the six-time Dora Award-winning composer and writer of Life After, the incredible musical theater piece that just scooped up Doras at the Tonys

a couple of years, or last year, I guess. And she did Dr. Silver as well. And she's 26. She's about to debut in San Diego with that exact same show. And so big U.S. premiere for her. She's about to debut in San Diego with that exact same show. And so big US premiere for her. She's having an incredible career. And so I got her to talk about

her five most influential musicals and you can listen to that right now. That's the bonus round. Okay. So I think I'm part like saying like what a genius that you're, because I feel like I do stuff like that in the episode and then I'm thinking,

what if I put that out and made you become a patron to get at it? There's some smart thinking there. And then the other side is kind of like, oh man, that's the best stuff. He's buried it away. I've basically decided to give you early access to both episodes

if you're going to be a patron on Patreon. But you can get access to them because I am putting them out a couple days later. So basically two episodes a week in one format or another. And then I'm actually going to do a bonus episode with Peter Ungian coming up in a couple weeks, the wonderful conductor from the TSO who was just nominated for a Juno for his work with the TSO.

He's moved down to Colorado and he's helping out with the orchestra down there. I just hope my listeners are cultured enough to know some of these names. I'm worried in the Venn diagram. They want some more talk about Vlad Guerrero Jr. Yeah, right, right, right. We're talking about the TSO here.

Yeah, I had to go with my heart on this. Oh, good. Beautiful. And I'm looking at one of the last episodes that's going to be a very well-known drag queen in this town.

So that's going to be a lot of fun, too. Well, I was going to say, so long as you do these episodes with these TSO people that I'm not familiar with. Peter was the conductor

of the TSO for like 14 years. Yeah, like I should know that, right? Of course I don't, which tells you what I know about TSO. But I have a feeling the people who know that, and there's many of them, I think they make a lot of money this is what i'm thinking like they're you're gonna have wealthy listeners which i think your sponsors will

really appreciate who knows i mean uh right as it stands it's the 10 episodes and i'm so proud of it and i you know mike listening to your podcast over the last year or so, I realize how much work you've put into this thing. And I have great admiration of what you've done. Do I come up in the meetings for your podcast? Maybe you have them yourself, I don't know, in the shower or something. Pretty much, yeah, right. Do I come up? Because Heather Bambrick says when they meet, the JazzCast people have their meetings.

I come up in the conversations, which is an honor. Well, I mean, when you're 400 plus episodes in and you've had the guest list that you've had, I mean, it's just an impressive endeavor, my friend. You deserve any success you've got coming to you, for sure. You saved the best here for last. Well, not quite last, because Andrew Ward

wants me to ask you, he says, in addition to being an arts journalist, he says that you're a big fan of The Grateful Dead. Is he right about that? That's absolutely true. Wow. Thank you, Andrew. Hello to you.

Yeah. Big fan. Big, big fan of The Dead. Saw them with the original Jerry Garcia lineup about four or five times. And I'm still a fan. I mean, I have to say, George Strombolopoulos and I were talking about this because he was not a Dead fan. And then he kind of asked me to give him a bit of a guide map of the Dead. And so I told him, here's the records you might want to start with,

and here's how you want to branch out. And every time we see each other now, we always talk about this because, of course, he's become a bit of a fan, and he's gone to see them, and so on and so forth. But I still am a fan, and I have to say the Sirius Satellite Dead channel is, what a godsend. It's a great thing. I love the band.

You're the target audience there. Yeah. So Andrew Ward has more, though, to his questions. He goes, one of the features on Toronto Mike just kicking out the jams. He said, this is him talking, not me. Although that is true. You're right, Andrew.

What are Mark's favorite jams by the dead? Wow, great question. I have so many favorites, it'd be hard to pick just one. But I think Help on the Way, that entire jam that they do, it really doesn't matter to me what era, but typically that's live, speaking from a live perspective that's it's a great um great section of grateful dead music i think um the terrapins all the terrapin station stuff i just love estimated profit um and then yeah getting into their late 80s material

i have room for all of that as well, and certainly the performances from that era. I tend to think about the dead more from an era perspective than I do from a song perspective. It ends up being that I really have a big love for the late 60s sound, which is very intense, and there's a lot of psychedelics happening at that point. Then you get this sort of countrified dead of the early 70s. Then you get what people claim is the best year for the Grateful Dead, which is 1977,

and what they did at Cornell University there, which you can download. It's a great album. I recommend it. Their version of Dancing in the Streets, Cornell University, 1977, is maybe one of the great recordings ever put together. And then, yeah, it's sort of a difficult, tricky time through the early to mid-80s, and then they come back strong in the mid to late 80s. And then the last great shows are sort of 89, 90, 91.

So interestingly, I will point out that the death of keyboardist Brent Midland seems to really put an end to the power of the Grateful Dead. A lot of people would argue that that was the beginning of the end for that band, and certainly for Jerry Garcia. There's a lot of guys my age who can only name one dead jam. They saw the video all the time on Much Music for Touch of Grey. Touch of Grey.

Yeah, I mean, a great, great song. But I mean, I think their only top five hit or top ten hit. Yeah, yeah. Truckin' being another one that I actually charted back in the 1970 or whenever it was released. But yeah, not a lot of hits. Yeah, Truckin', right? That's another one actually I could name. But yeah, when you're raised on like much music and like, I don't know, 680, you're a Victoria guy, but it was before it was all new.

The 680 was our top 40 station. So it's like, yeah, they weren't playing. Maybe Touch of Grey. That's it. Yeah, that was kind of it. And I remember how well produced it was. And it had a very, it was such a, for that band at that point, Jerry Garcia had just been in, I think,

in a diabetic coma at that point. And they came back and they made that great video. And yeah, I mean, that turned them from an arena act to a stadium act very, very quickly. You need a hit. Yeah, you have to have a hit. You need a hit. But yeah, those are the eras I have time for.

I love the Europe 72 record. I love, gosh, I don't even really know what others I could mention. But for me, it's all about the eras. So Andrew Ward mentioned kick out the jams. And we'll get you back here at some point to kick out the jams properly. But we are going to kick out the jams. And we'll get you back here at some point to kick out the jams properly. But we are going to kick out

a jam. And you chose an interesting selection here. So let's play your jam. Thank you. I almost feel bad talking here. It sounds great in the headphones, but transmitter. Church in a box, as Daniel Lanois would say about his pedal steel there. Wow. So tell us why you

love Transmitter from the Shine album. I have a such an affection for the work of Daniel Lanois. I think about what he's done with bands like U2 and all the incredible acts. Emmylou Harris, all the incredible acts he's worked with over the years,

and Neil Young. I mean, the list goes on and on. And I've met him several times. I've had a chance to speak with him at numerous opportunities. Gosh, Bob Dylan. I just keep thinking of all these records that he's worked on,

the O'Mercy record. By the way, when you have Donabee on your podcast, you're going to need more than 90 minutes. FYI. But you know that already. Good to know. That's true. Yes, the man has stories.

But when I first heard this record, and I heard what he was doing with Pedal Steel, and I thought about one friend actually put it that he has sort of a magical dust that he puts on any record that he produces. And I think that's absolutely true. His Robbie Robertson record. On and on it goes.

I mean, gosh. And I just had such a... This record, I felt, was about as perfect as a record could be. The Shine album. And it was really his last sort of semi-conventional kind of record. So I love his playing. album and it was really his last sort of semi-conventional kind of record so um i i love his playing and i got all the time in the world for the beauty of daniel anois what a incredible canadian yeah i think steven brunt told me a great story of like in hamilton like seeing him perform

and like there weren't a lot of people there and like, yeah, it just helped. Like you said, not magical at all is. I've had so many weird experiences with, I saw him at the key to Bala, which was a weird place to see Daniel Lanois with his sort of,

uh, you know, layered and intellectual tracks that he has. Um, and then I remember seeing him at the drake one night where he played just by himself with you know with all sorts of effects and pedals and things wearing all leather and his nike hat that he wears sometimes and i remember we met at the fashion carers one year and we had a big conversation they had stopped selling beers and i happened to have

an extra beer so i gave him one and so we chatted while we watched this incredible runway fashion show and he told me that uh he had been asked at one point to produce the red hot chili peppers californication album wow and i've ever since dreamed of what that record might have sounded like of course it ended up ended up being Rick Rubin who took on that project and once again made another incredible Red Hot Chili Peppers record. But I always wondered, what would the magic of Daniel Lanois sound like

on a Red Hot Chili Peppers record? Mark, this was a great delight. These are just great to meet you and have these conversations and hear about your new podcast. You know, I root for all podcasts. Thank you. What's the expression? Rising tide

floats all boats or something like that. Am I close enough? That sounds pretty close. Artattheendoftheworld.com is where you can check out the podcast. We got our first two or three episodes out there. And I want to hear that Tom Wilson story when I finish this. All right, all right. If I stop on this recording,

I won't tell a soul, I promise. And that brings us to the end of our 428th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Mark is at M Wigmore. On Twitter. On Twitter.

These are all Twitter things. Is there anything else you want to mention? I always do Twitter only, but of course, if you wanted to, you already mentioned artattheendoftheworld.com. Artattheendoftheworld.com. You can join us on patreon.com slash artattheendoftheworld, and you can donate there should you choose to,

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Use the promo code Toronto Mike when you make your first bill payment with Paytm and they'll give you $10 in Paytm cash. $10 right there for you. Do it. See you all next week. It's been eight years of laughter and eight years of tears And I don't know what the future can hold or do For me and you

But I'm a much better man for having known you Oh, you know that's true because Everything is coming up