Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Matt Hart a.k.a. The Russian Futurists: Toronto Mike'd #1383

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

In this 1383rd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Matt Hart a.k.a. The Russian Futurists about his life of music, his time as an Indie88 day oner, working on the morning show there for almost a decade, and his current work at CBC and Today Radio. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Electronic Products Recycling Association, Raymond James Canada and Moneris. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]

Set your lights up, listen to all its antics On the green, on the edges of universe I can put you down in six What up, Miami? Toronto VK on the beat, uh, check, uh I'm in Toronto where you wanna get the city love I'm from Toronto where you wanna get the city love Welcome to episode 1383 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities,

good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. RecycleMyElectronics.ca Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past.

The Advantaged Investor Podcast from Raymond James Canada. Valuable perspective for Canadian investors who want to remain knowledgeable, informed, and focused on long-term success. Season 5 of Yes, We Are Open, an award-winning podcast for Moneris, hosted by FOTM Al Grego, and Ridley Funeral Home, pillars of the community since 1921. Today, making his Toronto mic debut is Matt Hart.

Welcome, Matt. Hey, man. How's it going? Did you hear what I did there? I just said, welcome, Matt. Ah, I see, because of the floor thing and plus the walking and my mask. And you're sick of that one, but that was actually an accident in my defense. So, nice to meet you, man. Good. Now, meet you.

Things are good. People are used to my guests sitting across the table here, but you're not sitting across the table. That means a few things. That means you don't get to enjoy a Great Lakes beer with me, which sucks. And it means

I can't give you a lasagna from palma pasta oh man i didn't know there was beer and lasagna you're gonna drag me out for that where are you right now in the in the world regrets town um that's like the garfield special they give you a beer and a pizza or a lasagna on a monday oh yeah he loved his lasagna he just walked into a beer and a pizza or a lasagna on a Monday. Oh, yeah. He loved his lasagna. He just walked into a bar and said, I love one Garfield. And they slapped a piece of lasagna and a beer on it. I'll take that. I met my place out on the Danforth in East Toronto, bordering Scarborough.

You know what? For some reason, I had you in like Barrie or something. I feel like, okay, but this is a long, that would be a long commute for you to get from there to here, right? Yeah, not in Barry yet. Yeah, no, it would be, that would be like two and a bit hours or something like that. In like the worst, like godless weather too. Like my, my folks are up in Peterborough, which is kind of like, you know, similar distance to Barry to here. And the drive up there when it's like

even just a pinch of snow here going through around lindsey it's just it's nuts and it's just like like i thought about for years moving there and kind of coming to the city when i needed to and then i was like well doing morning radio is not really going to facilitate that you know get up at 1 a.m and drive to toronto or something so, it didn't work out. But I thought about commuting actually from Peterborough. Yeah, you know, a lot of great artists, I'm gonna call you an artist, and we'll elaborate more on that later. But I mean, I feel like there's a bit of an artistic drain in this city. Like if you're not an investment banker making seven figures a year, you got to leave, right? It's absolutely true.

It's like that used to just be like a joke. Like when I moved here like 24 years ago, that was like the joke. Like we all lived in like Kensington and I lived on Baldwin Street. And, you know, back when like the Young Sing Pastries was there and you could live for like $ dollars for a day and we were like oh man it's so expensive here like honestly that and a six-pack for like nine bucks in a day or something like that oh man times have changed but where did you come from 24 years ago so originally um eastern ontario like i first moved to like a proper town in grade three.

It was Cornwall, Ontario. What a, what a shithole, but shout out to our Cornwall listeners. But it's a dump. Went there until, let's see, I was there till about grade 13. Then I was in Peterborough. And then after that, I've in toronto for 20 years or something oh 24 years i heard that like yeah five minutes ago okay so cornwall for me it's i just know that is like one of the signs i see when i drive to montreal like i see that there's oh it's like

you go through um where's it where's uh avril lavigne from uh napanee napanee okay so like you got these markers. It's funny. I just talked to Ken Reed and we talked about early on you get the sign for Port Hope. And when we see that sign, because Ken and I are older than you and we're the same age, we think of that's where Wheels' dad is from, Port Hope. Oh, yeah. I just watched that episode. Wow.

He just, like, why does he show up and think it's cool to bring his child to a bar? That's right. And what was the name of his band, Mike and the Rippers or something? Yeah, yeah. And they, like, doing, like, they kept making, like, strip club jokes. I was like, man, you guys get no girls. What are you talking about? The, like, the weekend dads, they should be called.

Oh, that's wild. Okay, why is Cornwall a shithole? Well, when I was there, it was extra shithole-y because a price of cigarettes here in Ontario was about $14 and one in New York State was about $2. We're about 140 meters from them with just water between us. Do the math. It was pretty simple now also apply that to alcohol and everything illicit so um this was pre-9-11 and it was a lot of the kids

who came in from the reserve or who came in from um the u.s through the reserve we didn't have the same border security that we did so kids that had to come through there, you just waved your way through. So anyone, um, industrious at that age would make sure that their things were on that bus and getting to our high schools. And,

uh, it made for a pretty adventurous high school experience. That's for sure. Right. Did you notice that? Cause I'm curious if you noticed any cultural change from, cornwall to peterborough yeah definitely it's like replace like gangstered out thugged out dudes from cornwall with like uh fist fighting hicks in peterborough wow but that was that was when i moved Both these places have changed radically but when I moved, that was the big change. It was

like skids or hicks. Alright, so we're going to go back and I want to find out about your interest in radio and just off the top here, maybe shout out because I'm not sure everybody listening even is aware but we're going to make

them aware today. Where can we hear Matt Hart's voice on the Toronto airwaves today? Oh, right now I'm on, I'm doing just a little bit of like here and there work on today, 93.5. So I'm doing a couple of weekends there. I'm doing some stuff for CBC's commotion, which is a really great show with Elamin. I'm doing that kind of just here and

there i'm doing it actually on friday for their big end of the year wrap-up thing which should be really fun they're doing it live at the glenn gold which is always really fun so yeah those are the two spots right now and um people can use a little bit of a break they heard me every morning in their ear for you know almost nine years so uh it's okay to hear a little bit of a break they heard me every morning in their ear for you know almost nine years so uh it's okay to hear a little less mess up matt hart on your radio a little less well i'm not sure i agree but we will uh we will consider that like a teaser as we will get to that soon because i want to start somewhere else i'm going to play a song and then i'll bring it down and then i'll ask you if you know this song. You ready?

Yeah. Okay, here we go. There's this one word, it's called comfort It's the strangest, most dangerous place I could hide And it's a wonder, physical comfort Has it hollowed the swallow gene I've thrown inside And you're my first bite, I'm the worst night I've got knots up My heart burns like a piada of pops This has got to stop, where's the water drop? From ground to jury to rock

And I felt how My heart melts now I'm so burnt out I'm a shell now It's the worst of those It's the first to go It's the last to come back When the sun melts the snow I'm going to end up playing the whole thing, Matt.

Do you know what I'm playing? I don't care for it. I don't know what I'm playing? I don't care for it. I don't know what it is, but I don't care for it. I realize because you're on Zoom, you're actually coming in the same channel as the song, and I'm fading down the song thinking you're sitting right over there, and I'm like, oh, there goes Matt here. Yeah, no, I don't know what music that is,

but I didn't care for it very much at all. It's not for me. Not for you. Okay, so you don't know the Russian futurists. music that is but i didn't care for it very much at all it's not not for me not not for you okay so you don't know the the the russian futurists i know they sound like they stink though the guy the guy looks a lot like you yeah yeah he could uh stand to lose 40. all right you're you're joshing me here as the the kids would say. That is my creative kind of project I've had since I was about 18 or 19, and I put out five or six records and traveled, did all the band stuff.

All right, I've got to find out. I think some people might be surprised to learn this. So how old are you when you cut this track, which is Paul Simon? What what are we hearing here yeah the one we just heard i would have been i was in toronto then so i probably would have been in my late 20s then something like that 27 okay and tell me yeah like like so give me an idea uh i mean this song i've heard i've met people have heard this song on the radio. Like, this isn't just something

you cranked out in a basement and it's for your friends and family or whatever. So give us the Russian futurist's bio. Okay, yeah. I'll do the quick run through.

It doesn't even have to be quick. Okay. Well, this isn't Today Radio, Matt. We have time here. It's the economy of words. Yeah, so basically, I was, i was always dabbling in music ever since i was really little i was um really big into doing uh

production for hip-hop like doing beats and it was kind of the first time where you could get samplers like the instrument um for your home they weren't these giant, like, like remember when computers used to take up a whole room and you see them in the 50s? Right. They were kind of like that kind of thing. They were like, you know, meant to be in a lab and stuff. And they started making like these little samplers that you could have basically almost as toys.

And I had those when I was a kid. And then when I got older, I learned that some of them you could actually do some rudimentary beat making on. And then I stole all my brother's Star Wars figures, both brothers, sold them all and bought my first sampler. Then I started messing with that. Me and a couple of friends started doing some like hip hop stuff in high school. a couple friends started doing some like hip-hop stuff in high school um i went to college for um recording engineering or recording audio engineering yeah i made up a new word um

went there for that at fanshaw and kind of chuckled my way through it because they had us like okay so you're coming like it's a great school whatever i'm not talking trash but um you come out and you're producing van halen's next album and you got this much for drums that i'm like that's never gonna happen like teach us how to produce it like a sarah slain record or a hayden record or something right you know what i mean like that's what we're going to be likely to be producing in budget what are you talking about budget? There's no budget on this. So like, you know, I was disillusioned with it in that sense.

And I kind of decided, no, I want to be making music. Like, I don't want to be producing it. I want to be like writing and performing it and not performing really on stage, but just like producing, like I look at music as like songs, like little whole finished little you know like a little movie or something a little short movie and uh i don't really look at albums as a thing but songs are like short little things so i like doing a little thing so i've always got a little thing on the go and next thing you know you got a bunch of little things and you got to

put those little things somewhere and that's an album uh and i tend to do that every so often so yeah we got lucky that uh we sent out about 25 just cdrs when uh i was doing it just in my bedroom on my four track like zero fans never even played a show and um we sent out 25 copies to the big uh magazines in the uk and if you're young you don't remember what are, but they're the blogs of the time. They basically went crazy. Mojo and Uncut and all these ones that were kind of like... Back in the day,

again, if you're too young, in the 90s, you had magazines that if they said you were cool, you were cool. NME and all that stuff and Mojo, Revolver, all these British magazines. They made people's careers. So it was a big deal getting so much love in all those. And we had, you know, big stars kind of fawning over the album.

Like the guys from REM were big fans and Blur. Wow. Yeah, and that song in particular that you played, it's gotten a lot of love over the years. It's been licensed a lot. It was used in NBA 2K11, the video game, which is so funny because it's like the comments from that on YouTube are just hysterical.

They're so funny. They're just like my fans and the NBA 2K fans smashing, kind of clashing together, and it's just the funniest thing I've ever seen. Those are great. The show The Walking Dead used it a few years ago. Samsung

used to have it as a ringtone when you bought your cell phone. So I've heard some funny stories of people being on Safari and there's a majestic herd of elephants walking by and their guide's phone goes off and it's my stupid ass song and my friend is from like here in toronto me like oh my god that song just played because they just thought it was a ringtone right and it's got a bit of a

ringtone vibe but yeah so i toured uh last tour was europe in about i don't know now it would have been almost 10 years ago but i still i put out a an ep last year and one before and i'm still working on stuff but it's strictly a hobby it's just for fun and that's that's the way it should be like for me i don't think when i was doing it for money it was as fun you just didn't know where your money was coming from so you wrote that song i just played you're the are you the sole writer of that song and performer everything i do it all it's amazing okay now when when walking dead licenses the song again i happened to i'm not actually a fan of walking dead but i'm well aware of what a behemoth walking dead was yeah is this still active by the way or is it did it wrap up i think it wrapped up but i'm the same i

watched it very early on and that was it i only watched the pilot and then i tapped out after the pilot so there you go i do the same thing now like when someone uses my song though i can't speak poorly of them i'm like no no fine show that's a fine show but we know we know people who love the walking dead like that's not an obscure show right right? That's a big one. Okay. But what, like, do you now go to the mailbox in, uh, wherever you are, East York,

are you in East York or Toronto? Which, which name? Technically East York. Okay. East York. When you go to your mailbox in East York, do you get like,

you see, Oh, there's another check from, uh, royalties from the walking dead. Like, is there, uh,

is there any good boost to the, uh, income from this? Yes, but, um, um it it would have it mostly happens at the start you agree on something and then you get just regular like stuff so um yeah i think that one did all right but the best thing is about it like a lot of bands well i don't think a lot of bands but some bands are still i think older bands are still conflicted

about they're like oh are you selling out and all that what i like i couldn't care less like you're not even young yeah like like i remember though like good friends who had turned down ads for like uh gmc and hummer and stuff like that and now they have kids and then they're like we wouldn't turn that down it's funny how we switched on that because I guess once all the money left, like physical media sales, like no money in that anymore. And now a lot of artists are getting squeezed out of money from like touring, like unless you're, you know, Bruce Springsteen or whatever. So now we're at a point I had Amy Milan here from stars and she was like

begging Revlon or somebody like, please license ageless beauty. Like, please. ageless beauty. Like, please. Like, yeah, it's really weird. The licensing game too.

It's like some people like, um, I've gotten really lucky with it and, uh, had some really great licenses and a license can make or break your career. But it, it always seems like it always goes to ones that to people when they're conflicted. Like I have a friend who shells, uh, remain unnamed because i like him too much but his band was offered i think like a

hundred grand for a hummer ad or something a few years ago he turned it down and it was like no it was like no small print just like here's the money here's a bag right take it leave and he was conflicted about it which i laughed at immediately but uh he still was and now he has two daughters and i think he would take that money back yeah absolutely wild i uh didn't hear it myself but i was told that there's a new hyundai commercial with i will give you everything by uh skydiggers oh wow so i mean so i love those guys and it happened i happened great coincidence is i'm sitting in a theater in hamilton ontario to watch the sky diggers when i somebody had dm me on twitter or something to say fotm andy got some money here we got uh we got a

we got a sky diggers song on hockey night in canada so this was for a hyundai ad so kind of kind of interesting times but that song paul simon that's like your big hit right like that when you you know that's that's the big indie hit for matt hart yeah it's it's the one that a lot of people yeah it's short answer it's the most popular one for sure that's funny you said um sky diggers too because you're giving me big skydiggers vibes i'm gonna put dollars to donuts that you have um bloodstones on right now uh no i'm actually wearing just uh socks no shoes at all okay how close was i uh no i don't even own bloodstones and how do you say no i don't i should because you're getting these vibes uh i'm now naturally

curious is it because i'm so handsome like what's giving off the the skydiggers when i think of when i think of the skydiggers like what's the skydiggers fan look like i'd say like okay well i think that's a compliment right i think it is yeah it's just it's rare that that's a band that i don't really think i've seen that before and now i have okay i was so uh i was at uh the horseshoe tavern on saturday night to see to see uh what was i there to see junk house okay yes tom wilson's old band and i was i went with my buddy cam and we were in like in the bar leaf game was on we're drinking a great lakes beer and we're just waiting for the opening act to be finished or whatever and uh i realized like like i happen to be pushing 50 here and i realized like

oh this crowd today makes me feel very very young i was absolutely in the like the youngest one percent of that room on on saturday night which i find uh interesting i just didn't realize uh how much older the junk house crowd was well it's better than the alternative i think than going to something and you feel like the oldest person there that's that's never but that's cool right because that's like yeah i didn't stop listening to music in 1995 like that's kind of cool right yeah but i also have like a weird loft or something like that all right so you didn't realize i just wanted to talk an hour about uh where did that name come from the russian futurists uh my older brother took um some kind of international arts and they were just an art movement and i wish i

had a better name but it was strictly phonetics like i just like the sound of it okay cool cool and heart to heart was already taken so you can't yeah exactly all right uh and i the station where uh fotm mark wise blot heard that song was uh and i hope you say it like this w-o-x-y in oxford ohio is where he heard that song we just played so i thought i'd shout them out nice that's all okay so that segues us to radio so you went to fanshaw i'm guessing back then did you think back then you might have a a career in music was this possibly the goal at some point yeah it was more producing like i had grand visions of being like um you know what's dude from um flaming lips dave uh dude from um flaming lips dave uh god it's killed me produces everybody i had big uh big aspirations of being like a uh tinker toy uh fridman is it dave fridman i'm trying to yeah

yeah yeah i had big visions of being a dave fridman type and um I was not but it's when I realized that like it's sometimes finding that you're wrong helps you find that you're right about something else like people a lot of times would see that as a mistake I went to school something that I was like oh this isn't really what I wanted but it showed me what I didn't want, which is valuable too. And I was like, I just don't, I think a lot of people really delusional into thinking they were going to walk into a lifestyle that was never going to happen or not going to happen for a long time and a lot of hard work. One of our professors actually said, if you're doing something like creative and personal, and that's you and a statement, like prepare to do it for the rest of your life and be prepared to never make

any money at it. And that's true. Like if you really care, you have to be prepared to make no money and do it forever. And I was not prepared to do that. And so Fanshawe, I just was like, yeah,

my parents basically said, do you want, um, they offered me a four track or a futon and i picked the four track and started making music and never stopped when you were you know you were talking about a moment ago about you know doing something you love and not for money or whatever i was thinking and that's why you decided you should be in radio yeah yeah well yeah i was bartending first when i got off tour but so what was what was your first uh radio gig like when did you first

get behind a microphone in an actual terrestrial radio station so i had always been dealing with the cbc right like through the band they had'd have me come in and do sessions like a live session there um i would be like a guest host i would do just one-offs here and there as the cbc like likes to do with people that know how to speak or you know like who are above you know just kind of who can actually hold the conversation well can you can you actually uh i know you did one earlier but name check the actual cbc shows where you would have been uh on the mic uh no i was on radio 3 which is gone right so it was their digital one so uh but i was on with lana lana gay who's at indie 88 today yeah so um no nothing but it was for their just the regular flow kind of thing and it was all voice tracked um uh but i was still really pumped because it was something to do with music i'd grown

up listening to cbc was the sound of my kitchen right like it was my parents listened to it like it was just always on so i was really pumped i did a month-long contract there and they didn't ask me back because i was terrible um it's just objectively true i listened back to it even my first boss at indie he was like man you were shitty and i'm like i was and it's like it's it's funny because uh i was wasn't great and i was gutted but it was a learning experience I had to kind of learn some stuff and it wasn't really learn some stuff it's not like there's like a radio handbook I subscribed to it's just that like I needed more experience on the mind oh well dude this is why I think podcasting is great because you can suck and like you're not over you're not so exposed on like CBC radio 3

right like it's like you can cut your uh teeth and then get you know put in your reps and then get better and better and better i like i cringe if i think i find oh go listen to episode three it's like i know i don't want to listen to episode three like it took 1300 episodes to and i'm still i'm still just this good matt so uh yeah just take the first 200 and toss them oh yeah i might take the first 800 and toss them. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. So yeah. So I, I discovered that it's something that I would want to do again. And I kind of spent a bit of time looking for more of it. Okay.

Where did you find it? Like, does this include, I'm guessing like you just start applying for radio jobs that are open in the GTA? Yes. There was a website for that you're aware of, but your listeners might not be where it's jobs for just radio and broadcast people.

And I, of course, wasn't aware of it because I had never really done it. But an old friend of mine said, hey, you'd be really great for this. And it was just an ad for a radio station that was coming. No details about it, but it was going to be indie rock. was coming no details about it but it was uh gonna be indie rock and i was like i don't mean to sound like bloated or like you know like i'm gloating or like selfish sure but i was like if you don't hire me you messed up like i was here for the birth of indie rock in toronto i was in those bars i saw arcade fire at sneaky d's don't talk to me about indie cred. So I was like, all right. So I just pestered them and pestered them. And I finally got in touch with the guy who was the first PD, Adam Thompson,

who I adore. He and I got talking and he was really candid with me. He was like, you know, we're down to like a couple of people and this and that. I was like, dude, I'm better. I was like, I'm better. Trust me. I go and listen dude, I'm better. I was like, I'm better. Trust me. I go, and listen, if I suck, just fire me. They're still here. Right. You know, so he took a chance on me.

And he was, yeah, easily my greatest boss. And he was just, he gave me enough chances and gave me enough interviews. And let me be weird as hell was like for my interview um i didn't have any bits or anything or like recurring things right so he was like well i don't know just do what you would do on the show and i did something about what soup would a band be if it was a soup where i have to take a name out of a hat and say, you know, like, oh, Blink-182, they're hot dog water soup. Or, you know, Bell and Sebastian are consomme or whatever, you know. And so I did some stupid things, but he loved it.

And we got along really well. And I was there for, yeah, about eight and a half years through different bosses. Christina Fitzgerald next to also was a really big, big pal of mine. yeah about eight and a half years and through different bosses christine christina fissero next to also was uh a really big uh big pal of mine okay very good so so you were there for day one of indie 88 oh yeah yeah a day winner oh wow okay so i find this very interesting because i was a long time cfny fan listen to you know 102.. And I remember, of course, that 88.1 was the CKLN signal. And I remember CRTC ripped it away from TMU or whatnot. And then there was the, you know, the company that owned Indy got the frequency.

And it was kind of exciting that we were going to have like an alternative, if you will, like a 102.1 alternative. So followed this very very closely i still remember the soft launch like so before ads and everything where they just played cool i don't know they just played cool fucking music it's like oh i like this like no ads no it just play fucking cool music the rick roll was pretty funny too like that's all that's an old joke, but to Rickroll the whole city was pretty funny about him too. Yeah. So it sounds like he was a good boss too, Adam. Why did he leave Indie88?

I don't know. And I don't want to speak for anyone else's business, but I would imagine that he was fending off orders like, or like offers like crazy, but that's. Oh, you're, you're not speculation in here. Say Matt Hart. Okay. Yeah. I'll, I'll, you're not speculation in here. Say Matt Hart. Okay. Yeah.

I'll, I'll, I'll get the rumors going on the juicy gossip. Well, it's good to be a wanted. I feel like that's a rumor he'd like out there anyways. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, rumors are generally salacious because, uh, just having a meeting isn't exciting sounding. So what is exciting is being a day one or at a new station. So Indy 88 launches and you're there for day one let's see how your memory is uh some guests come on and they're like amazing with

the recall and some are like i don't remember anything but can you remember other voices that we heard on 88.1 that first uh that first month hosts or yeah i'm thinking you can do you can name check anyone you want obviously but i'm particularly interested in on-air hosts particularly oh like carlin burton who's still there i love the guy um on air fun fact though i'm gonna just sprinkle a few fun facts here is that carlin is engaged to be married to my very first best friend's cousin. Oh, wow. Small world. It is small. And she used to work at Great Lakes Brewery,

who I've had a long-term relationship with Great Lakes. In fact, if you were here, you'd get some Great Lakes. But she used to work there for a spell. Anyways, that's when I found out that she's related to my still dear friend, still dear friend jocini so there you go so nice so that's cool um so so as far as day oneers i think that's it it would have been him and i from day one and yeah i believe that's it okay so what was your shift back in the the early days of 88.1 were you always in mornings? Yeah, I started mornings and did them straight to the end.

Okay. So when does Raina enter the fray on 88.1 mornings? This is where it gets blurry. Don't quote me on years. Well, you're going to be quoted because it's your words. Let's hear it. Yeah, yeah. Raina was there maybe two-ish, a few years in. She replaced a guy.

And Raina and I were great. I love Raina. She's kicking ass down in NPR in Philly right now. We still talk all the time. I love Raina. But she's gone. Who else did we even have? Josie's still there, but she's not a day oneer.

She was only there five years of my time. Well, yeah, we're going to get to Josie in a minute. But I guess I'm trying to remember, was it just you and Carlin as a morning show when it first launched? No, it was Candice Konitsky, myself, and a guy, Brian Bailey. Okay. Brian Eatma from Victoria on the mornings. and then we had a mid day with bookie but that's not right away right because alan cross has come on many times to share the story

of he was like your guidance counselor or whatever his funky title was something yeah um yeah i don't know what but but he's uh yeah soie was at 102.1, and then they parted ways, and then Alan says to management to... Right, so there was a gap, then there was an afternoon drive shift, which I think Raina and Brent split up somehow or something like that. Then eventually Lana, then they licensed Greg B. Harrell or something, and then it all starts to kind of get... I hear you.

All right, so how many years did you serve as one of the morning show hosts on 88.1? Eight and a half years. Okay, and at the end of your, before you leave, it's Josie, Di, Carlin, and yourself, right? You know, I only heard good things. I didn't catch as much morning

terrestrial radio as I used to because I don't have a commute and I got to get the kids to school. It's a whole shit show, actually. But, I know for a fact that when your voice stopped being heard on 88.1, I received dozens of notes about where's Matt Hart. Uh, you were, you were missed. Uh, dare I ask what the hell happened? Well, I mean, radio doesn't like, you know what it's like. They don't like to say, hey, it's your last day on Thursday, so go say goodbye. They just surprise you, right? But to be totally honest, the short and boring answer is that the station and I have been growing apart for a little while. And I know this sounds vague and generic.

while and I know this sounds vague and generic but um it had basically like you said you described it you know I was very excited about this independent station coming along and us having this kind of punk rock ethos um and that was going the opposite way and I understand that I understand why and I understand why they need to do it. But I always like to go the other way. And it's as simple as that. It's I think they had to go. They were forced to or chose to go one direction. And it wasn't the direction that I was loving. And so we just like the best thing is like I left with glowing relationships with people.

So that's great news. Now, if I can read between the lines. Permission to read between the lines a little bit. By all means. Okay, good. We're in the court of law here, so you know, you have to tell the truth all the time. Alright. Yeah. So, it sounds like you got,

we call it on this show, it's called the tap on the shoulder, is how we refer to it. But many, many great broadcasters have had a tap on the shoulder, and they're to it but uh many many great broadcasters have had a tap on the shoulder and they're told it's uh it's your it's time to get your plan your exit uh you know and uh but it also sounds like your heart was no longer in it because the uh promise of performance for indie 88 have has changed through the years i can tell you it's quite changed quite a bit lately like it's not necessarily the the cool indie rock you want to play now like i know i heard you know they

played an old leonard cohen song and stuff and there's nothing wrong with that but it is a different station now like it sounds like your heart might not have been in it anymore so this decision to part ways was not necessarily uh unwelcomed it, I don't know why, um, why it was good for both of us, but it was, let's put it that way. It was like, you never want to see a situation get to the point where you're like, you don't want to be there or you don't want to be with someone and they don't want to be with you. Like you want to like address, like, you know, if someone comes up to you and says, hey man, you seem like you haven't been into this in the last couple weeks uh you haven't been eating pizza in a while you still like pizza you tell them you know what i mean and uh then they say okay well then maybe

next time we'll go for indian food sounds good you know like get compromised so um yeah like there's zeros nothing salacious like you didn't have a fight with Josie or something. Like there's no salacious story out there. I never heard that. I'm just making that up. Yeah. No, I talked to her last week, actually. Is she excited about her new opportunity at Chum?

I think she's more excited that she's not going to forget and tell someone. Now that she's not going to forget and tell someone. Now that she can. I feel like it was out there. I mean, I had it in September, like literally on TorontoMike.com. So it's been out there a long time. Yeah, but God knows before that, right? Right. No, no, that's true.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So I'm sure she's happy. Like, well, she's happy with the news. And she's also happy that she gets happy at the news and she's also happy that she gets to finally share it which is great and good for her that's awesome she's kicking ass and i hear there might be i think i heard it my source on this is josie okay that's it's like deep throat told me that there might be a television component to this too like something

yeah i heard that too but i didn't get that from a remote directly, but I think so too. Yeah. That's tough for Indy to offer that, uh, that, that television really is. Trust me. They just have you go like in the background of like, I don't know, a CP 24 breakfast or something. You have to go in the background and jump up and down or something. Oh yeah. Yeah. It sounds about right.

It sounds about right. But, but yeah, it was, it was great. Like I wouldn't like, if you had to have me rate your employer, whatever it would all be glowing ratings. Okay. But then I i have a question matt so because i didn't know actually i had no idea why you left until right now it's not like i knew and i was just trying to you know i literally didn't know but i can tell you the way you left the way they that your station treated your dismissal there or you're you know you're leaving it was sort of mysterious like it was a like yeah i mean i'll

finish thought real quick to say that it's like suddenly your voice is gone and they don't really kind of they don't really reference you anymore because this is the radio way or whatever like it's like you were never there it's like like oh you dreamt that that was like a dream you wake up in the shower and it's like this mad heart guy what are you talking about there's no mad heart on this show like it's so mysterious it almost comes across like something happened like like I had no idea what happened but it does lead like this vacuum nature abhors a vacuum and suddenly people are like speculating like did Matt say something and then people are like oh look I heard him talk about the convoy yeah so I've been thinking I have no idea until right now and I've

never publicly stated anything because i don't know anything except that you're not there but like well it's also great to let people's imaginations go so why would i dispel this right like and were you like in this fantasy world were you in trouble for uh being against the convoy like you upset somebody i don't know they don't say well. Well, are you, were you pro-convoy or anti-convoy? I don't know. It doesn't say anywhere, but someone sent me a link. Yeah.

That someone had gotten to, they had gotten me fired for talking about the convoy. Yeah. Okay. Well, that was sent to me too. And it's like, I'm like, I don't know what to do with this information. I actually, well, I quickly, I didn't, I never knew. So if I don't know, I don't write anything. But I figured.

It's, yeah. Like, I mean't write anything. It's the nature of the way it goes in radio. I don't know why this is, because it seems kind of weird to listeners to let people go without saying goodbye and stuff like that. But I understand how a lot of times people leave situations because there's animosity, right? So you don't want some guy uncocked on the microphone cursing or sabotaging your station either but um yeah if you're leaving on good

terms i think you you probably should go and say goodbye to everyone ever but there's you're damned if you do or you're damned if you do as or you don't as the station but you know like yeah like they people would say well why and then you'd tell them and they'd say, well, isn't it really? Or, you know what I mean? Like people are never happy with it. And sometimes it's just like people grow out of stuff. People get burnt out. People grow out of stuff.

The radio station wants to play a certain kind of music that I'm not. Like, were you just sick of the Lumineers? Is that the deal? It doesn't matter if they're played on every station anyway. yeah you can't escape them at indie wow okay um yeah sorry sorry for the no hot no no i don't need to like i just want the truth i haven't i didn't even you know i didn't i didn't believe the convoy story i was being fed but i'm like it didn't make sense to me because I don't think, I think, I don't know. I had no thoughts on this,

except that there were a lot of people who were kind of against the convoy in the city. And it'd be strange for you to be, you know, fired for expressing this opinion or whatnot. But anyways, that's all fiction. You wouldn't fire anyone, yeah, like for that. Anyways. I don't think, I would have, okay.

I've never been a program director, but I think the difference must be, I'm trying to think, because Raina got to say goodbye and Josie got to say goodbye. And I'm guessing the difference is they were going to something else. Like they quit for a bigger job, if you will.

And maybe because you were leaving for nothing specific, you were like dangerous. But at the same time, I will say, I would be like, I would look in the eyes, promise me you're not going to do anything dumb. And then you look me in the eyes and you say, I won't do anything dumb. And I would go for it because that's exciting. Like, what if Matt does? Like, this is an exciting moment.

I think you're absolutely right. I'd be like, all right, let's see what happens. Even say to listeners before you go on, say, hey, this is Matt. We're not responsible for what he says. That's a good way to draw in ratings. 100%. Who wouldn't tune in to hear if Matt Hart is going to go off on Indy

for tapping him on the shoulder? You can create a fake drama if you are leaving for a real job. And then make it look like the station was the hero in the end. Well, you leave and the station looks good. Boom.

See, this is why you should just go into like manage i don't think there's any jobs left but if you could go into program management or something i started consulting uh radio consulting yeah well tell me this so so would you get the tap and it turned out like you said it worked out being good for everybody they brent who i've never met brent but he was confirmed to kick out the jams on Toronto Mike to a point where he sent me his list of 10 songs. And I actually, I loaded all the MP3s into my soundboard. And then like, I think, I don't know, the day of or something,

he wrote me a note to say he can't make it. And then I said, okay, let's reschedule. And then he ghosted me. Like, so I have Brent's jams were in my soundboard for years. Pissing me off. Okay. Is he a a good guy brent he's a good guy okay okay i'll ask about one more name then we'll move you out of indie but i gotta ask you about bookie yes i just had steven stanley here a few days ago and dear friend of david dave bookman and we talked uh quite a bit about bookie

and then when i was at the horseshoe of, there's all these monuments to Bookie at the Horseshoe Tavern. Tell me what it was like working with a guy like Bookie. He was like, well, he's a one of one, you know, like he's one of those people that there's just, you're not going to meet another one. And you know that within like 10 seconds of meeting him. I remember he, I met him when he interviewed the futurist for the edge.

When we were live in Toronto, we were playing or premiering that song that Paul Simon that you played. And he interviewed me and the whole time he walked, which was weird. He was behind me a lot in the interview. And I was like, what are you doing back there and uh he was he was funny he was quirky he was so uh uh smart about what he was smart about like you know it comes down to like baseball stats and he's like rayman um he's yeah, he was just like a really

great guy, but also so irrationally angry about certain things, like, god damn Doug Ford, and he just walks in the studio, you're like, what the hell? So, yeah, he was, I'd just say like a total original 101.

Yeah, bookies missed. He loved his music and very much missed in this market absolutely gone far too soon too all right so when you get the tap and you uh leave indie 88 what is it you start sleeping in like what time do you wake up nowadays oh hell yeah oh hell yeah i think for the first month i didn't get up before 1 p.m um Wow. Yeah, like my first boss who did mornings for like 10 years, he said, and he had a commute on either end of it too, and he said that when he quit his first morning gig, he had like a sleep deficit for like years.

Like he just needed to sleep at every minute. Yeah. You got a lot of catching up to do. Oh. And like, I, it was, I'm always tired.

I could be like, could fall asleep at any time just from that job. Like, I mean, it was, people have used to always be like, Oh my God, you get up at,

you know, four o'clock, whatever. And, um, but I mean, sort of coal miners and they do actual hard work i talk into a mic it's the easiest job ever made being on radio let me hear like here's some info if you're

listening as a student first of all drop out make sure you get a refund because radio school is literally worth zero value and um get your refund buy studio gear learn recording if you want to do it that way or start a podcast do it for two years it's going to be terrible and then after two years if nothing's going pack it in that's wild i just had mike stafford here like two saturdays ago and he basically looked into the camera camera wasn't even on that was the weird part but he's and he's he was just speaking to anyone in radio school or anyone who's the parent of somebody in radio radio school and he was just saying do anything else like stop what you're doing and do anything else has it really come i mean there's word now about huge layoffs at cbc radio and i i wear my cbc shirt in solidarity

with these five people what is the future of radio is is it already done or is it just uh in its final days here because you know they're still state like indy 88 is broadcasting now you're on today radio right now oh i would i don't want to sound grim but i'm a negative guy uh i think you know like it's circling the drain and in a lot of ways but um it's like there's always going to be some kind of radio when as long as there's cars um but like it's a generational thing i think is the thing we can't fight um the young young people don't by nature flip on the radio in a car when they're on a road trip or in the morning when they get up and make their coffee don't flip on the radio they put on spotify playlist or whatever and nothing wrong

with those things but um i do think just you know what it's like uh changing listeners habits like it's the one of the greatest most monumental tasks radio stations struggle with is changing listeners habits it's like almost impossible and um people who have it so ingrained into them like for for me i stopped listening to radio for quite a while when i stopped just because i was sick of it. Like I was just sick of the job and I would still come in the kitchen though and put on CBC just out of habit and be like, no, no. Like I'd come in.

The first thing I'd say was, Hey Google, put on CBC radio one. And then I'd like, I'd be like, no, put on nothing. Oh,

it just did it. Oh, great. Hey Google, turn off. One thing though, but CBC radio one, which is the big difference of course between that station and these other stations you've worked at is that at least you're ad free

like there's zero you don't they don't stop down i can't believe it when i'm listening to a terrestrial radio station and it's like they stop down for like i don't know three minutes of ads and i'm like oh people actually endure this in 2023 and i'm shocked hey google turn off sorry about that it's okay we didn't hear it anyways google wants to know what you want it's google's there for you it's funny i got one right here and it's luckily you went in my headphone so my google couldn't go off but i bet you like people are listening now in their homes and it's like hundreds of homes in toronto it will but but okay so cbc radio one which i still listen to quite a bit of even though uh they're trying to get squeeze more juice out of that lemon i guess uh do less with

more i mean sorry do more with less it would be nice we could do less of more but at least you don't have that stop down for an ad break like my kids won't put up with that yeah yeah like it's you know though it's i don't see it going for forever that's for sure uh i don't know what happens to it but i i don't know it's not gonna live like i think i'm amazed it's not like all syndicated by now well it's getting there yeah it's absolutely getting there on today like they wanted to and they continue to try to be, like, one of the only stations that have live people there on the weekend. And that's one of the things that I like about doing the weekends. They're just because it's, like, it frees up my week to do whatever I want.

And then I just have this little fun thing on the side that I get to go play radio a bit. And it's just, like, it's such a good little good little studio for that it's awesome okay so that's a key detail because other than uh 680 news uh which they're not even called anymore by the way but uh i think you'd be the only station with somebody on the weekend live there so you actually so where is the studio young and st claire right i actually i was there uh when when standard broadcasting owned it this is many years ago but i remember uh that's when they had cfrb and they had uh 99.9 and they had what are those boom which was easy easy rock which became boom right yeah boom's right attached

to us we're like in the same space. Okay, so on the weekend, you still get to go to whatever that is, to St. Clair, whatever the heck that is. And you get to go on a mic live and speak to the city. And do you have any aspirations for like a more permanent full-time role in radio? Or like what is your...

I mean, I like it now because like I'm doing a bunch of jobs, you know what I mean? Which gives me i like it now because like i'm not like i'm doing a bunch of jobs you know what i mean which gives me a lot of freedom like to do an interview right now um and uh yeah i mean it could be radio um i've got a few projects of my own that are on the that i'm hooking up that i'm looking to finish up with a few production companies. I've got a show that I'm working on. I got a whole bunch of stuff. So I'm not sure which one of those will pay me the most.

It's a gig economy. You got to have a bunch of sticks in the fire. Yeah, no, no, but I would like, the thing is with freelancing is like um doing it doing a steady gig for a while it is nice after a break so yeah i'm ready to like do something a little more

stable soon but not not itching at it by any stretch i'm quite happy to uh enjoy recording in the day and stuff like that well i'm happy i'm happy to hear this. The station you're on, Today Radio, there is a quick question that came in here. It said, Today Radio DJ Tyler Barr said, the band Dogstar is quote-unquote pretty good toward trying to get calls on the topic of whether you've seen a big band in a small club. I don't believe that's correct.

Ask Matt Hart. So Matt, can we agree that dog star is not pretty good this is keanu reeves band uh yeah they're not good no so okay so what is that like like i often think these are maybe these are actors who are calling in i can you uh confirm on the record here mad hart again you have to tell the truth you're on toronto mic when you take these calls on today because it's all about that are they they real people or are these pre-programmed, like wrestling, like predetermined outcomes? All real people, all real people, all dog star lovers.

Exclusively, we've got to deal with the dog star fan club that allows us to just poach their uh deranged uh masses remember kianu lived in toronto for many uh formative years lovely man apparently oh yeah sweetheart apparently all right so you are part-time at today and maybe now you're okay cool cool now one thing about that station. I've had on Wayne Webster. Do you know this man, Wayne Webster? I don't. All right.

So he's in programming there somewhere in that building. You're only there on weekends, so you don't see any of these. I mean, I do then. He's a big fan of yours now. Okay. Oh, yeah. He's the best. But my concern for Today Radio, of course, this replaced Flow,

and then they sold the Flow brand, or they gave it away. They didn't sell it, actually. They gave the Flow brand into another station. But this is a format that, Matt, I'm going to be honest with you, it's not long for this world, Today Radio. Like, who knows what will replace it? I have no idea. But I don't think Today Radio is long for this world.

You might be a little compromised here. I don't expect an unbiased answer but uh it's tough to change people's radio habits as you said um basically my name is paul and that's between y'all i'm happy to fill the mic up as long as it's there all right my friend last question on the way out because i feel i've got you in enough trouble here. But I did enjoy this chat. Like, I just like the idea that you're a creative guy, you're freelance stuff,

but you did have a pretty regular gig on a morning station in Toronto that a lot of people my age enjoy. So that's interesting. And then a mysterious disappearance but here you have resurfaced on Toronto radio who knows what's next for you you're still a very young man but when you're alone and you're just listening to music because you want to hear music for personal enjoyment what kind of music does Matt Hart listen to oh I listen to a lot of hip hop, unfortunately. What era of hip hop?

Current. Okay. But mostly Buffalo right now is a big scene that I'm really into. So Griselda Records, Black Soprano Records, all that stuff. Buffalo's really on fire right now, kind of changed the world when it comes to hip hop. And they're having a real renaissance right now so yeah some guys like rock marciano who i really like uh crime apple there's there's some really good stuff happening maybe that's the home for you buffalo radio i feel like like nicholas piccolis or whatever you'll cross the border is that where he is nicholas yeah yeah in fact and when i last talked to him which was

on toronto mic it was probably a couple years ago he was even doing like if you go to a buffalo bills game like nicholas piccolis was like had a presence there with hosting and music and stuff but he's a guy it's funny because i just talked i mentioned i talked to ken re. Ken Reed started on the air in Edmonton, Alberta with Liza Fromer. Oh yeah. And Liza Fromer was on YTV doing video and arcade top 10 with Nicholas Piccolis. Yes. So it's,

I don't know. I'm just connecting dots here, but Nicholas Piccolis also had a spell on a 102.1. And now he's like the king of Buffalo radio. Maybe that's where Matt Hart belongs in Buffalo. Yay. Aim for the stars. I'm not sure that's the stars,

but that is me just wishing you much luck. And like, I hope it all. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. And thanks for listening to my semi interesting story. To be continued, maybe at one point,

when you're already in the southwest corner of Toronto for other business, you pop over and you kick out the jams with me, man. You got it. You got it. I'm in. Matt, I almost forgot to mention that my big event is Saturday. So I don't know what you're up to Saturday from noon to three. Is that the time you might be on the radio? Just before I finish. Yeah.

Okay. So you won't be able to be in Mississauga at Palma's kitchen. TML X 14 is taking place. And I would just welcome all listeners to come on out. Cause we'll get free pasta from Palma Pasta, free beer from Great Lakes. We've got a live recording there. And you can jump on the open mic and say hi. So everyone, including you, Matt, is invited to TMLX 14 on Saturday, December 9th at noon.

Right on. And that brings us to the end of our 1,383rd show. You can follow me on Twitter and Blue Sky. I'm at Toronto Mike. Matt, what's the best way to follow you on social to find out where you end up next? There's this website called Google. It's got everything.

Just go to Google.com and put in Matt Hart or the Russian Futurists and go down the rabbit hole. Much love to all who made this possible. That's Great Lakes Brewery. That's Palma Pasta. That's Raymond James Canada. That's Mineris. That's

Recycle My Electronics and Ridley Funeral Home. See you all tomorrow when Ivor Hamilton visits me. He's an old-time CFNY guy from the spirit of radio days of David Marsden. But he has been a music executive in Canada for the last many, many, many years. And he just retired at the end of November. And he's dropping by for his exit interview because he's going to tell me all the stuff

he couldn't tell me his last few visits. So tune in tomorrow for Ivor Hamilton. you. Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is gold with the smell of snow. Won't you today? And your smile is fine and it's just like mine.