Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Matt Schichter: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1827

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

In this 1827th episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with Matt Schichter, the director of CFNY: The Spirit of Radio, a documentary airing on TVO. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, RetroFestive.ca and RecycleMyElectronics.ca. If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail].

Well, I was going to ask, like, because they're going to have a premiere of sorts at the Chorus Key Building, I believe. Like, they're giving out tickets on chorus-owned radio stations. That's kind of cool. It's cool, but the director won't be there. No, director has not been asked to be there either, though. Right. The director never said no, never asked. Welcome to

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Joining me today, he's the director of CFNY, the Spirit of Radio. It's Matt Schichter. How you doing, buddy? I'm good. How are you? How do you say that last name of yours? Schichter? Oh my God.

Yeah. Yeah. No one gets it. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. There's a first time. Thank you for doing this.

Thanks. Thanks for being so like, I mean, listen, I don't know. I mean, I know we're recording this. So I'm just going to say this off the bat. I don't think I could have made this movie without you. So thank you. Thank you for, for, I mean, just like, so much of my research was just watching your old shows. So thank you.

Made in my life easier. Well, those words mean more to me than you can imagine because I've been following this very closely. Now, just we need to tell the people, the name of the doc we're talking about is CFNY, the spirit of radio. And as you can imagine, I have a whole bunch of questions. But what if I just play the trailer and then we talk about it? Is that cool? Yeah, sure. If you can afford the rights to the Rush song, yeah.

Well, you know, that's true. I cannot, but we're going to do it anyway because this is the West. We print the legend around here. Here we go. Radio was a lifeline. The Spirit of Radio. Spirit of Radio. We began to break into

North America when CFNY started playing us. The largest gig we ever played as New Order was in Toronto. You're with the spirit scene up and why. It was the first radio station where we've got the sense that the DJs actually loved music.

I've told these guys are off the wall. give it, it's mighty. Those artists that define the 80s, the spirit of radio, played all those bands first. Radio and records were the only ways of communication that we had other than playing it for people. For us, it was the station that we grew up with.

But if you get people who are passionate about the thing that they are presenting and you put them all together in one place, that to me is what CFMY was all about. We're coming to you live. We're feeling good. CFMY. Just change the way I listen to music. CFNYFM, 102.1.

The Spirit of Radio. Wow, a little Don Burns there at the end. Okay, Matt, I got so many questions. I don't know where to begin, but where do I begin? Yeah. Well, we just heard Spirit of Radio by Rush. Like, how vital was it? that that song be in this doc?

Can this documentary about CFMY even exist if you don't pay for spirit of radio by Rush? Yeah, good question. I mean, yes, it could. I don't think it'd be as good. And we wouldn't be able to tell that story. I mean, I guess you could tell the story, but you can't really tell the story without having the song in it. You know, like you need to hear it.

You need to hear what actually inspired it. But they were super cool. I mean, they've been on board since the beginning. So it's been really nice. It was really, I mean, it's been so long. but it's been really nice to have worked with them and like and just given us free reign essentially not free reign we paid for it obviously but like not not an insane amount of money i don't think i'm allowed to talk about how much money anything cost really i think there are rules or what

what would happen like matt what would happen if you told me what you guys paid for spirit i'd probably be lying because it was two and a half years ago i don't remember well look we'll get to that it was not a yeah sorry we'll get to that go go go no no no it's your show no no you it's easier in person right but where are you in the world right now i live in glasgow now i'm in the i've been here just over two years and we shot some interviews here my first time in glasgow was the jim cur interview wait a minute so you went to scotland to make the cf and y dock that interview and you stayed like yeah yeah it was like i love it here i'm not going home no no no a year later moved here maybe yeah about a year later but why did you move to scotland uh long story so so essentially but i'll

try and do it quickly. So mid-pandemic, I was making movies and I realized that because everything was over Zoom, unless you're on set, everything, all the prep was done over Zoom. So it's like, oh, I could live anywhere. And Toronto's getting expensive. And there was a bunch of other stuff and whatever. A bunch of things happened. I was married at the time and we were like, let's try something new, some new adventures. And she had a UK passport. My grandma was born in Manchester, I got a UK visa. And we started throwing darts at the board. And then two Septembers ago, we both got jobs here in Scotland. It was like, that's the universe saying, just try it. And honestly could not be happier. It's so like Canada. Everyone has a cousin in like Bolton or

Mississauga or something. It's like it's very, I mean, I think Canadian roots are kind of Scottish. Like it is very much the same. It's cool. I love it. But the words you used, I was married at the time. Yeah, yeah. So you're not married to her anymore. We are not. You want to go to that? We don't need to talk about that on this show. That's not what this is about. Nothing happened. We're still friends. It just didn't work out. It's all good. No one's interested in that story, but I just, that wording was interesting to me, Matt. Oh, yeah. And so you're in Scotland, but are you a Toronto guy?

Yeah, I mean, yes and no. I lived in Toronto. I mean, I grew up in Montreal, grew up in Waterloo for high school. So listening to The Edge for sure in Waterloo, obviously, a single range. And then Toronto, I mean, some of my adult life, I did radio for a long time. And, I mean, you were ready to go. You know, you move around a lot. You bounce around.

Things happen. but then basically 2016 to 2023 I was Toronto When you say you did radio for a long Like where might we have heard Matt Schichter Oh yeah sure I started at CJ IQ in Kitchener Dave FM in Kitchener as well And then where did I go and then I went to L.A. to do an inch

Yeah sorry go ahead Is that where you met Scott Turner Scott Turner was one of my first PDs Absolutely and Neil man Neil was the first and Scott took over for Neil I know oh dude the yeah small world I know and I didn't know who Neil was at the time and I didn't know who Scott was it was just like the PD of the station and then you start to learn about people and like you guys are like some of the guys of Canadian radio and you were just like you're my first boss it's my new job I don't know who you are you're just an older guy to me like but it's yeah crazy it was Jeff Lumby there or am I getting my stations mixed up that that name is very familiar but I didn't work with Jeff I remember that yeah but you said you went to California

I went to L.A. to do an internship at Indy 103, which is honestly, like, one of the coolest ideas for a radio station ever. It was this guy, Michael Steele, who I think he's in Nashville now doing some stuff. But he did a radio station where basically, like, different DJs would come on and do their own show. Steve Jones from the Sexist Pistols did, like, the noon show. Dave Navarro did an evening show. Who's a dude, Joe Escalante from the Vandals, or the dude, Mikey, Mighty, Muddy, Bostone singer, Jimmy Kimmel's announcer, whatever his name is. He did a morning show there, too. It was like musicians playing whatever they wanted,

kind of like a David Marston thing, to be honest now that I'm saying it out loud, which is interesting. And like trying to do that model of the spirit of radio kind of in L.A. And I would just gravitate it to it. And I was like, I need to work there.

So, yeah. Okay. So the reason I wanted to point out that you're in Scotland is that's a very good excuse for why you're not in my basement right now, my South Atollahs basement. And then I think the reason I was going there was because if I talk over you,

it's because you're not in the room. I'm like I this is easier when you're sitting right there and I can read your your yeah so so I don't I used to I used to do a lot of well then as we are talking over each other right there look at that like that's perfect no but I used to do a lot of interviews and I used to like I used to host the show at Bremus and I would always try not to do a Zoom in or well I wasn't Zoom at the time of Skype because of this the little bit of disconnect with timing it's not it's not the same it's not the same you don't get the energy of the person you know no absolutely but now yeah but we'll try our best Well, I'm curious how you got this gig.

Like, in my experience, and I've never made a film, but like when I talk to people who make documentaries, there's these two roads, like, one is like, and this is often with Alan Swig or somebody like that, but like often the road is like, I'm interested in this subject matter, and then you try to get funding to make the movie about this subject you want to make a movie about.

But the other road is, we, we, you know, like a royal we, like we want to make a movie about this subject matter. we need to find a good director who can make this for us and then we'll hire that'll be a hired gun like which road did you take to make CF and Y the spirit of radio more the second one um I've known Allen for I mean often not not like friends or anything more recently friends over the recent years but like just knew him peripherally and I was young in radio used to give me advice and stuff um but then my ex-wife was really good friends with them and we took him to defendway park to see paul McCartney for his 60th birthday and for dinner

just before that. I know, yeah, it was, that was one of the best things I've ever done. It was amazing. But just before that, for dinner,

we were having a pizza and he was like, and he knew I started doing some movies. And he was like, well, we're trying to get some money for a sizzle reel to do this doc on CFNY.

And I was like, I mean, the guys that I was working for at the time had a slot I knew to fill in the fall. And they had money for a movie. And I was like, well,

they don't do docs, but like, he used to work in radio too. He, like, he might be interested in this. Let me, let me bring it to them.

They won't fund a sizz, but they might fund the full documentary. And then we did, and it spiraled very fast. And then by, I want to say November, we had our, this was in June,

and by November we had our first shoot dates. And then we really, really did stuff in January, February to film. Okay. So I'm going to just, 2020, so I need to get,

you know, as you know, I am the official, you know, documentarian in the podcast world of CF and Y, etc. But I'm just curious.

So what year, what year again was that? when you were hired to make this dog. I'm going to say that was the summer of 2022, because we shot in the winter of 23. Okay, 20, okay, hold on. And I didn't want to direct it at first. I said we should hire a director.

I wanted to produce it. And then they were like, no, but you used to work in radio and you've interviewed musicians before. Like you would, and I used to direct some music videos too, nothing anyone would have seen.

They're like, it's all small potato stuff. But they were like, you're probably the person to do this. And I would, I mean, you get offered a directing job of a film. I'm not going to say,

no, that's been my dream my whole life. So, of course, I was going to say yes. And it's about radio and I worked in radio like I was saying and it's like

it's a love letter you've seen it it's a love letter to radio I've seen it so I'll we'll dive into this more we're kind of

still warming up here but I want to let the listenership know I've seen two versions of this documentary I've seen an version that I would say even though it's probably listed at like an hour 29

like the credits kick in at like hour 17 or so the credits start rolling like yeah right so that's like that's your full that's the full film

and that's the full film and that's the You have blessed that version. Like you've delivered that as, hey, this is done. I, well, and listen, we can get into this part. I'm sure this is why I'm on to this part. Like, we have to get to this part. But maybe just as I set the table, here's my curiosity.

You're going to finally answer a question I've wondered for a while. Okay. Okay. So in March 2022, so you're talking about later in 2022 when you get hired to make this talk. So in March 22, you're talking about later in 2022 when you get hired to make this talk. So in March 2020, I drop episode 1021 of Toronto Mic'd. Yes. And it's over.

I've watched it. And you've seen it. Okay. So, oh, yes, so you saw it on YouTube. Okay. So I have a, in the podcast feed, it's like over three hours. Actually, it's three hours and 49 minutes because I added some audio and stuff. So almost four hours, which is primarily based on a Zoom I had with people like Scott Turner,

Iver Hamilton, Alan Cross. of course, David Marsden, Liz Janick. Like, a lot of people I see in your documentary on the Zoom. And then we just talk about everything from, like, the late 70s when it launches, CFNY launches to, well, to modern day. So I'm curious. So does the recording and dropping of episode 101 of Toronto Mike, does that have any influence at all in this decision to finally make this love letter to CFNY?

I think that's a question for Alan and Iver on if that was like, okay, we need to do this now. It's certain, like I told you earlier, that episode certainly informed me a lot on, on the direction of what the story was going to be because you guys basically went chronologically and just told the whole thing. From what I remember, I mean, I watched this like two years ago. You're so right. Yeah. You're so right. And, and I mean, I'd be lying if I say I watched it in one chunk because I do remember being almost four hours. But I did what I definitely watched the whole episode. I know that. And you could probably go to my YouTube right now and you'll probably see like that red bar on like 20 of your videos from that time. But so influence it, you'd have to ask them if that was like one of the catalyst to push it over the line.

I think people getting up there in age and wanting to get the story told before, you know, a couple of people pass on. And it was COVID at the time too and everyone was kind of worried like what will happen. So there was a lot of that going on. No, it makes great sense. So remind me, you're at, was it Wrigleyfield? Where were you watching Paul McCartney? Wrigley Field? Fenway.

Fenway in Boston. The other old. Went to Wrigley to see Springsteen. That was my baseball to ourselves. So when was that? What month in 2022 was that? June of 22, I want to say. Okay.

And you start rolling on this thing by the end of 2022. Yeah, we did a week in November, just the first interviews. I think just Alan Iver and maybe Scott. I'm trying to remember who that first day was. I mean, it doesn't really,

it doesn't really matter. But yeah. I need to say, this, I don't know why I need to say this, because people have heard all three of those gentlemen on Toronto Mike several times. Iver, Hamilton, Scott Turner, Alan Cross, and I've said this as many times as I could,

and I'll say it again, three of the nicest human beings I've ever had the pleasure of talking to on Toronto Mike. Nice. Like I'm just throwing that into the universe. In my opinion, and I still chat with all three regularly, and I

like them all. They're all what I would call sweethearts. But just as we revisit, as we dive in. So March 2020, I feel like I'm going to do the, what is it, the average age of the Vietnam soldier was 26 years old. He was 19. Okay. So, March 2020, episode 1021 of Toronto Mike drops, almost four hours, the whole history of CFOI. That's March 22. June 22, Alan Cross says, Mr. Schichter, we think you should direct a documentary about CF and Y. And you are rolling by November 22 20, sorry, November 20,

22. Does that sound right to you? Yeah, I wouldn't say he asked me to direct it that day. It was more we want money for a sizzle reel. And I was like, I think maybe able to find a movie. I would say some point in that summer it was decided that I would direct it. So who paid for this, Doc? Like, I know you, like, who? Eyeball TV.

Eyeball TV. Which is a company I was working. Highball TV, which is a company I was working for at the time. Well, I wasn't working for them. I was a freelancer, but like, I had made three, no, I had made two movies with them at that point. I have a question. Does chorus pay for this at all? Like, is chorus financing this at all? No. As far as I know, I mean, I'm just the director on this, right? I mean, I did a lot of some producing stuff too, but finances is not me. So I believe it's all high ball, but I don't. Now, of course, your doc, which I've seen, doesn't cover any of the chorus era. The only allusion to the chorus era of CFNY is a on the screen after you talk about Marden Streak. It doesn't say chorus, obviously.

but it says that he was he was let go and then two months later he took his own life and he is missed and all of that is true but there so there is no chorus in this doc but did did chorus have any like editorial involvement like did they have to approve they yes they I don't remember the exact wording from the contract not that really matters but we did have to send them a cut for approval and within like whatever the standard languages if you don't get back to us within seven days we we will you know take it as a mission of you are fine with this and I don't think they'd get back to us. I don't think they had any issues with it.

And that Martin Streak thing, I can understand why you're bringing that up and asking that question at that time. We tried to make that as politically correct as possible because who really knows, right? And there's someone that's making a movie of Martin anyway, I think. I mean, he's been trying to make the movie for a long time.

So, Mr. Dunlop, right? Mr. Dunlop, who did phone me, maybe he saw the trailer and he phoned me. I didn't have a chance to answer the call, but he calls me big Argos fan. So shout out to the Toronto Organons. But Mr. Dunlop, that documentary is a way,

older than the CFNY documentary and I believe I was even interviewed for it, believe it or not, even though I never had a conversation with Martin Streak in my entire life. I was a fan. No, I never met, I would say to you, I have never met

and I never will, sadly, meet Martin Streak. I was just a fan, but I think I get pulled into this story because I break the tragic news of his passing. So the first place on the World Wide Web to report the fact that Martin Streak had passed away, which was a shock

to everybody, as you can imagine. Probably was a shock to you, was me, and therefore I became like, at the time, the internet was a little different back then, but I became this place where people were going that night to discuss and confer. So that's sort of, other than me being a huge fan of this station. But this begs a question real quick here, that I see you on Zoom and you are younger than me. So, congrats on that.

Well, you don't know that for sure, but that you... Okay, I would bet a lot. I'll bet you a... I'll bet you a case of Great Lakes beer that I was born before you. You could do a little better than that, but okay, fine. All right. Palma pasta lasagna as well.

Yeah, that's probably... It's probably fair, but yeah. But that means you actually... I did not grow up in the spirit of radio era. Right, no. It was news to me. That's right. So, and by the way, and I never lied about this,

I wasn't tuning in in 1985 to hear live Earl Jive and Beverly Hill on CFWI. Like I come to CFNY very late 80s and Marsden's gone in 87. So, you know, you could argue the spirit of radio is 77 to 87, which is the David Marsden era. Yeah, I don't think that's an argument. I think that that would be kind of a fact, right? Everything kind of falls apart. David's the linchpin to all of it. It's, well, the movie is about CFNY.

The movie's about David. And it was more about David until we realized, okay, there's a couple other things we should talk about too. But it really became apparent during the interviews. It's funny making a documentary. Like, I make a lot of scripted films. And you go in with a script, like a narrative film. And you go in with a script and you know what you're going to, you know what the story is. You know what the movie's about.

You know what all the beats are. But with a doc, you're taking all these interviews and you're saying, okay, what's the story and what that everyone is telling them. who tells it best from this point of view and like it's a very interesting way of making a film that I hadn't done before and David is the crux of it absolutely we talk about this being a love letter to CFNY but really let's face it this is a love letter

to a man who I love chatting with he's such a legend but Mars bar David Marsden this is a love letter to David Marsden and everyone that watches the film not that I show it to a lot of people but obviously we got you know when we were doing the cuts we send some people we trust and they're like watch this let us know everyone every single person

who is that man I love that man is what they said about David well they love his hair oh yeah the hair too is of course the hair is amazing I was so happy about and it kept he was wearing this velvet jacket and it just kept getting stuck in hair and makeup would come in and be like oh no hang on it's like it's fine it's an interview we don't he doesn't have to be perfect like it's but it's it's it's it's amazing it's so good his hair is great he's he's he's just such a special person I'm so glad that his story not that it wasn't told before but at least this gives a, maybe a new life or new audience to his story, hopefully. Yeah, and I love the fact there's a little taste of Dave Mickey in this dog.

Yeah, and that Getty Lee gets to say it too, which is the best, yeah. And we get at least a few moments of hearing Dave Mickey because, you know, I'm not much older than you, but I have no, of course I have no memories of David, Dave Mickey. There's no, I was born in the 70s. There's no Dave Mickey in my life, but it's unbelievable to hear archival audio of Dave Mickey and realize, oh, that's David Marsden. Like, there's such completely different personas. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of cool, too.

The evolution of a radio host is kind of cool. Like, in my radio career, I don't think I evolved at all. I think it was always just the same dude. And I think most DJs are probably like that. But it's like, I mean, a 30, 40 year career, I guess, allows you to do that. You have to reinvent yourself a little. And those were volatile times.

Like, he went through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, that's a very interesting, especially for radio. That's a very interesting. time. And it's a particularly interesting time if you're a gay man. That too. And the way that story is told in the film is, is

that's everybody on set. I just remember that moment. When he tells that part of the story, everyone was like, that's your movie. This guy is the movie. You felt it in the room. Everyone, not tiered up, but a few people did. And like, the energy changed. And the movie midway through that, I can't think he's

there all day. It was maybe a five hour interview. But that was the point of like, that's our movie. just figured it out. If I got you funding, maybe it wouldn't be me because I don't know if I have access to such deep pockets. But if you had funding, you have enough footage for a,

probably for a David Marsden documentary, right? Yeah, I mean, I would say the first cut of the movie, maybe not the first cut, one of the early cuts of the movie, it was definitely more of a David Marsden film. And then we realized it was a little too much

because it is, you know, it was commissioned about the spirit of radio era, not just David. And I think we, I think we do just, to David, though. It certainly, he certainly is the, like I keep saying, the crux of the story, and he's got his own little segment in it and everything.

But, but yeah, it's, yeah. Absolutely. Like, like I said, it is, really, it's a love letter to David Marston. But now that you said cuts, I need to ask you some, I don't know if they'll be uncomfortable, but just be as honest as you can and just know. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say inquiring minds. I know where this is going. It's fine. But do you want to go there and then I'll see if you went in the right direction,

or do you want me to just guide your body? go in the truthful direction. There's no right or wrong. Well, it's not truthful. The truth, there's my side, there's other people's sides, the truth will be somewhere in the middle, right? Okay, but let me, I am very curious in your side. Like, so maybe we start by like, when I watch that hour, the version where the credit starts to roll at an hour 17. Yeah. Okay. That was for film festivals. Yeah. So when did you complete that version?

That was picture locked on New Year's Day. of 2024 and then sound mixed and colored and delivered I don't remember the exact date at some point in May 2024. Okay. So you deliver this

and I'm going to guess there was previous versions that maybe our executive producers pushed back some you can tell us but like was there a previous? Yeah, yeah, which is fair as they should.

That's part of the job is you get a bunch of people. It's not just my movie. The movie's made by committee. Like it's this is this works. This doesn't work. This is incorrect factually. got to switch it this way or little bits and bobs or i don't like you know part of the problem

with having people and this didn't this didn't happen on this particular film but this has happened before where people are concerned of the way they look and they're like i don't like that shot of me can you get rid of that that did that that did not happen on this no one no one ever did that thank god that would have been crazy um but there were like little bits and bobs i mean i told you about the one thing of there was a clash album cover that i ever didn't like and i was like well we've already paid for it and it's already gone through the graphics department and it's now just number 28 and we're handing it in two days, so can't change the photo anymore, that kind

of stuff. And a lot of it is just like things that could have been mentioned before weren't and then were brought up too late and then it's just like, but this is the film now. So little can we call those like little things? Yeah, little things. There were a few little things. A few

but there's always going to be. And then someone unfortunately for me, in this case, I'm the director. The buck stops with me just due to the title. I have to be the one who makes the decisions. That's my job. That's why they hired me. That's why I was hired for this. And I think it did a pretty good job. Like, the movie's fine. I don't think it's the greatest documentary of all time, but like it works. You've seen it. It works. I think. That's a terrible sell out of this show. Don't let that. Don't get that up. That'll be the by the quote. The movie's fine. The director to the director wants you to

know. But at least you're not, you don't have to sell tickets. The director is a very self-deprecating man and can't be like, I've created the greatest thing of all time. I can't do that. Who, okay, and who are the executive, just for the record? I've seen the list of five names. Yeah, yeah, sure. Who are the executive producers? Yeah, Alan Cross, Iver Hamilton, Scott Turner, Barbara Hall

and Chantelle Jackson. An obvious question that Torontoians are going to be curious about is, is this a different Barbara Hall? Like, there's, of course, we had a mayor named, Barbara Hall. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, different Barbara Hall. Music's Emmy Award winning Music Supervisor. I feel like

She needs to stick an initial in there, like Barbara. Oh, yes, like Barbara M. Hall or something. Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of people are going to be like, oh, I had no idea. Barbara Hall was so interested in... So much music, yeah. So much a new wave, yeah. Okay, so here we are rolling.

So when you deliver this thing, and it sounds like it's all, you basically sign off. What was the feedback from your executive producers with that version that you delivered in May 2024? I thought everything was fine. and then obviously there's been I mean you and I have corresponded a little bit over the last few years there's there's I've seen some posts I've seen some stories I've seen some things is that Mike just stirring the pot I don't know

I mean but but I've heard there was some upset I mean I don't want to go too far into it but like I heard they didn't love it I'm still not entirely sure what they don't like about it I heard there was a new cut and then I send it to you I've seen it now

oh you're referring to the You're referring to the 60-minute version. Sorry, yes. The 60-minute version that will air on TVO January 6, 9 p.m. Now, obviously, I'm no filmmaker, okay? But I know that if your movie runs an hour 29 and you need it to be 60 minutes, my big brain says you need to cut 29 minutes out of this documentary. Like, did you do that?

Yes, I did. I heard TVO was interested about a year ago and I was asked to shorten it how, well, they said we can shorten it or we can give you a first pass if you want to shorten it. I said, let me, let me take a stab out and see what I can do. I think I cut out the Pete and Geetz bit. I cut it a little bit at the end towards, like, which was kind of like the Coda, I suppose, of the film. And the intro bit, that's the first bit. It was, it was, what are the easiest things to cut that don't destroy the story kind of thing?

Like a couple of things I noticed. So again, I had the privilege, the great honor of viewing. You might be the only one ever. Well, other than you. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm the team that made it, but yeah. Right, of course. So I watched the full version.

which was for festivals because I do know Alan Cross and maybe there's a thing I try to follow this like you're supposed to under promise over deliver but I my mantra has been to over promise and over deliver which is always a very difficult task actually but I feel like Alan Cross had expectations set very high in that I don't know if I think it was 2020 he said the goal was to have this film air during TIF of 2024 that was the original plan yeah It did not get in. Never really know why, but that happens. Probably a very strong documentary year.

It is, I mean, look, we both obviously, I wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be here if we didn't love this subject. But I also understand it's not for everybody. Like, you know, it's not, it's, it's, it's, I mean, I thought Tiff would have been a good home for it, mind you, but whatever. Didn't get into festivals. Movies don't get into festivals all the time. It did get into some other festivals that I was, okay, here's a little bit of dirt for you,

that I was told it's not allowed to premiere at said festivals. We got into four or five festivals, Woodstock, which is a huge music festival. great, that's where the broken social scene documentary premiered last year. And I was told this cut is not for the audience. No one's allowed to see this thing. It cannot go to these festivals. And then I see this TVO cut that's coming out. And I'm like,

I made this cut. So it's still the same movie. What was wrong with it that it couldn't go to film festivals? This conversation is all part of me. Again, I know somebody right now is grumbling what a shit disturber or something. I'm actually I'm actually very

glad this film exists. And on January 6th, Canadians can watch this on TVO. Like, I think TVO's got a good deal going where if you miss it on the actual television, like it'll be on their YouTube channel if I know TVO docs as well as I think I do. We're mere weeks away from Canadians being able to watch the 60-minute cut. Do we know that your 60-minute cut? Well, I guess you're going to tell us that you don't know, but we're going to find out. Your 60-minute cut that you did about a year ago, is that the same 60 minutes

we're all going to see on January 6th? I think so, but I honestly don't know. I mean... But why don't you know? Like, you're the director, Matt. Like, this is what I'm trying to figure out. What happens? The director, you seem like, when did you find out

this was going to air on January 6th? My friend texted me to... Well, when did you email me? My friend texted me like maybe 20 minutes before you emailed me. Yeah, that's when I ever... They went public on, I think, social media or something. Like, so... Okay.

They went public. and that's, I was given a heads up that it was imminent, but that day I wrote you was the day it went into the public realm. Yeah, two days ago, three days ago, something like that, yeah. Yeah, like I won't, if somebody tells me this is coming out next week, I'm not an asshole where I'm going to go, you know, I'm going to let them announce it, which is what I did in this case, and that's what I'm going to do.

Because I, again, mad respect and love for Alan Cross, Scott Turner, and Iver Hamilton, three people I have a lot of time for. I'm not here to stir up shit but there's something smells here because you aren't allowed to like I know from a recent visit from Alan Swig and a recent chat with Biff Naked these are two people who had documentaries

that they wanted in TIF 2025 and both couldn't get their films into TIF but they both ended up at a Calgary film festival which they will joke was like a consolation prize or whatever but I don't understand why your hour 29 cut that I watched and thought was a beautiful love letter to CFNY and David Marston. I don't

know why you'd be told we cannot air this at these film festivals. Well, that's much nicer review than what you sent me in the email. I was prepared to be underwhelmed than I wasn't. Thank you for saying such a nice thing now. Well, because I was shouting out Chris Murphy from Sloan. Of course. I do say

underwold. Sorry, I did not throw the reference on the air. Yeah, of course, obviously. But I was prepared when I sat down to watch the hour, the full version. I don't know what timestamp to give it. I'll just call it Hour 29. When I sat down to watch the Hour 29 version, 100%, I was prepared for it to be kind of bad. And why were you prepared for it to be kind of bad? I mean, I'm not going to outsources. I think that's the whole, anyway, please. So this is, again, I even had a chat yesterday with

somebody who had seen a previous cut. I think maybe, and I'm going to speculate here, and you tell me if this might be right, there might, was there a version? And you're going to say, of course there was, because this is how filmmaking works. But you probably delivered a version before this version I saw that was probably passionately disliked by these stakeholders. I don't think so, or at least not publicly. Like, there's enough, there was a Vimeo link where everyone got to make notes on and say, I don't like this at like 3427 or 59, 60, well, 60 doesn't make any sense, 5943 or whatever,

like with timestamps of I don't like this or I don't like that and change this, change that, which happy to do. but again, end of the day, someone has to be in charge and if someone's not in charge, nothing gets done. So someone has to make decisions

because there's deadlines and there's money on the line and it's a bonded film. So if it's not delivered the day it says it's delivered, people start losing money. And decisions just have to be made sometimes. So I think there's a world

where this could have been a very different movie from different interviews or from different points of view or if people want to give more dirt on stuff that happened. Like there's none of that in this film, but no one wants to talk about

any of that kind of stuff. I'm sure there was some, I mean, it's the 80s, right? I'm sure there was some sort of like other shit going on, but no one wants to talk about any of that, which is fine, and that's not what this movie is,

but it's, what's my point here? Well, no, I'm going to help you because I keep referring to it as a love letter to CFNY, and I think everybody with like the nostalgic vibes, the love for CF and Y will be, will feel good watching this film

because they're going to see all their old friends, you're going to see the old yellow house and then you're going to see the strip mall in Brampton and you're going to I think it's a good hit of nostalgia for anybody who's who misses the old CF and Y like it's a love letter

but when you write a love letter to somebody and I've written a love letter or two in my time Matt I'll tell you right now there's no warts in there this isn't a warts at all experience and your bosses am I right so those five executive producers are like well I guess

you work for that company hi what's the name again hi ball high ball high ball so your boss is highball and i guess highball's bosses are those five executive producers am i right at all no no no so in this case the executive producer is basically just a vanity credit usually an executive producer who puts money into the film uh they wanted we wanted to give them a credit that that had some gravitas too because it was their idea they did create the pitch this is their thing um an executive producer felt right, but technically in the hierarchy of a film, it would be the producer, which is

Highball, director. And then the EPs are somewhere in there too, but like this one, this is a little different because they didn't actually put money in it. And Highball is putting up the money, right? Highball is putting up the money, yeah. Okay. So you report to Highball. So was there ever a breakdown?

Like obviously you deliver this version I watched, this hour, 29 version, but I guess at some point they say we need a 60 minute version, TVO is interested and TVO wants 60 minutes. So you did what you did. A couple of parts I'll just say that did disappear. And, you know, you have to make cuts.

Like, I think this is just a simple math. Like, you can't fit a 90-minute dock into a 60-minute slot. Exactly. But you must have thought, I will just speed this up. Well, if you notice the credits of the new one, they... I was very interesting, because the credits tell you who was interviewed but didn't make the final cut, okay? That's in the credits.

And I could see it. Yeah. So I had to, because we did so many interviews and we just can't fit everybody into the movie, unfortunately. Like even Earl Jive, I can't believe, like, he's in there. He's in a long cup, but not in the short one. Okay. Which, which I, because I watched it again last night just before talking to you. Another, I will shut out. Humble Howard was in the long cut, but didn't make the shortcut.

He looks at Fred in the shortcut. He's there. He's beside, yeah, he's beside Fred, but he doesn't talk. And a couple of other interesting. But it's also not his air of the station, right? Humble's not there at the time. So it doesn't really fit for him to say anything, really. You're 100% right.

You're 100% right. This is like, you're kind of wrap. So I'm going to get to that in a moment. But again, we're all over the place. But what you have here is a curious cat who actually gives a shit about this content. And I am, I don't know why I need to repeat it, but I feel like I don't want to, I don't want people to think I'm tearing down something because it's a beautiful love letter to see him why.

But when you write a love letter, that's where I was going with this. When you write a love letter, there's no warts in there. And I'm going to compare this to another doc I saw. but called 299 Queen Street West but in this because I saw that oh you saw it I haven't seen it yet okay well you might never see that brother I was at yeah so Sean Minard

who made that film it's become a good bud actually I just went to Roy Thompson Hall to watch the Toronto Symphony Orchestra live score a documentary called Run Terry Run about Terry Fox that Sean Menard made for the Terry Fox Foundation and the doc was amazing because there was footage

of Terry Fox somebody I've admired my entire life. I run every year for Terry. Footage of Terry I had never seen before. And I can't tell you what it's like to see a documentary at Roy Thompson Hall when the Toronto Symphony Orchestra does the score live. It was unbelievable. Yeah, I bet. That sounds amazing. That's so cool. Yeah. But Sean, who's an interesting cat. I don't know if you've met Sean Minard, but... No, no, no, no. I don't know him. I just know he made that movie.

He made 299 Queen Street West, and I saw it because he rented out Roy Thompson Hall for the premiere because he was pissed off. That's right. Tiff said no. And he said, and he said, and he said, he said, he said, said basically fuck it I'll do it myself and he rents out Roy Thompson Hall

I can't imagine what that price tag is on a Friday night and I was there he invited me because he had come on here to talk about it and he knew I was a big

fan of much music I was and that documentary is also a love letter to much music and misses all the warts so my only pet peeve with these docs

and I'm not your doc is wonderful but whoa like you're glossing I happen to know where some bodies are buried and I happen to know some stuff, right? Some real talk and nothing even slightly. The most controversial line in there is that one line where it says

Martin's streak was let go and two months later and the controversy part is that he was actually let go because a lot of people think he was on the air and then he sadly took his own life. But no, he was let go before he took his own life. But there is no, what's that called? Not drama, but friction. No, there is, I mean, there's a little bit of drama in the film just with the, like, the station going to receivership.

And then, of course, the, you know, the saving of the spirit of radio stuff. But, yeah, internal drama or like. But even that, my friend, even that, I'm sorry for interrupting here, but you're talking to a guy who has been archiving this stuff forever. Yeah, yeah. Even that, you don't dive into the fact that I would suggest the listener revolt that is so famous. And dear Mr. Bates, no longer with us, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. but that is covered briefly that there was a revolt from the listeners, but that was financially backed by the company trying to buy it.

Like, CFNY adds George Michael and stuff, and you do absolutely cover this, because this old station post, you know, around when this is why Marsen has to leave it, but this old station adds a bunch of mainstream tracks from people like George Michael, which is top 40 at the time and very non-CFNY, but McLean Hunter put in their bids saying that people want the old format back and they, you know, those people were in a room testifying. So please

out. So McLean Hunter plays a huge role in this listener revolt, but none of this is in the documentary. No, and it's probably because no one talked about it. And we were trying to get the story done. Or someone talked about it but didn't explain it correctly. I'm trying to remember. I mean, we did like 60

something interviews. But if it's not in there, it's because there was no way to tell it correctly without a bunch of title cards or a bunch of explaining things. And it was like this, it doesn't work. Or maybe we decided to, I mean, I agree. Watching it again for the first time in a year, I was like, oh, that ending is fast. It doesn't, it could be drawn out an extra minute or two and really dived a little deeper.

But, I mean, you know, I don't know, you run out of time on a movie. I don't know. No, and also you're answering to Highball and they probably, the stakeholders probably don't want that stuff in there. That's a bit messy. I mean that conversation never happens I wouldn't I wouldn't insinuate that we never they would have probably let me put anything in there creatively that way but you talk to 60 people

and all 60 had nothing but glowing things to say about the entire experience right pretty much yeah yeah but I can also understand why knowing that the people you worked with are going to see this you don't want to like and if anyone was really upset it like I'm trying to think if anyone is really upset Did anyone, like, come in to, like, purposely stir shit up, and no one did.

So, you know, I was kind of hoping Jim Fonger would a little bit. And then, but then I see Jim Funger's side of the whole equation, the whole thing. I was like, oh, you're not the bad guy after all. You kind of are in our story. But, like, you just thought it was a good business decision. Like, I understand, you know? Well, there is a moment. I had a little giggled to myself.

There's a moment where Jim Fonger makes a statement that we basically made CFNY, like Shepard's show, where Chris Shepard, and I've got to ask you about Chris Shepard in a moment, but Chris Shepard would put like a mainstream pop song alongside the old, you know, the skinny puppy or whatever. And I just thought, I've never really heard that reasoning because it was obvious they were trying to go more mainstream so they could boost the sales price if the ratings went up.

Like this seemed very obvious to me what they were doing there. It's a good way to, this niche, cool audience that you were catering to isn't very big. And Shep was the big star at the time, too. And what Shep's doing works, why don't we try that more? Which, you know, at 40 something I understand now in my 20s, I definitely quit radio stations because we flip formats to pop. And I was like, fuck the man, I'm out of here.

I'm a rock and roll guy. And now I'm like, what a stupid kid I was? Like, what was I wasn't thinking? But that's what Marsden does and that's what Iver Hamilton does. You know, these people didn't want to work for that station because they, they love the music. This is a time when that radio station was hiring people who, loved the music. They weren't just hiring, like, I think a good, and, you know, I work for Humble and Fred today, but I'll say, like, I mentioned Jeff Lumby earlier. Well, Humble Howard and Jeff Lumby had a

morning show in Montreal. And that's why I know Jeff's name. Right. Yes. They had a morning show in Montreal. And Humble Howard was tapped on the shoulder and just said, hey, we would like to recruit you to work at our station in Toronto, Brampton, but we'll call it Toronto. And the rest is history. That was 1989. Those two gentlemen are still recording today.

But some of the friction, which obviously this is a bit late for the dog and wouldn't make sense in the dock. But when you are hiring somebody because

not a morning zoo necessarily, not like Jesse and Gene, but you are now hiring somebody because they're a broadcaster and not because they love the music.

I'm pretty sure Howard would tell you he was listening to Steely Dan, which is fine. It's cool music, but he wasn't there because he loved the music.

That's where you get the, I guess, civil war on the inside of this strip mall in Brampton, where you have the people there because they love the music, and then you have the people brought in because they're good broadcasters.

Yeah, and honestly, there's a lot of interview footage about that. It's just we have to end the story at some point. We figured that the story ending, you know, even Danielle while quitting on the air, great story would have loved to put that in, but that's just after. And how do you we've already switched ownership at the end of the movie. It gets confusing. Oh, we switch ownership again

and then this happens, and then Reiner comes in and then this happens, and it's like, it starts to jumble the ending too much. And we were like, we'll just end it. The spirit of radio is saved. That's our whole story anyway, really, encapsulated. Alan has a great line to end the film on. And we were like, that, he says it. Like, that has to end the movie. I actually, you know, we won. And we won. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, you're trying to get a lot of stuff. And, like, you know, it took me almost four hours to tell this story on Toronto Mike. And you're trying to do it. I wasn't allowed to do that. No. I wrote a note. So I watched it again. I watched the

two versions of it. But in a nut, you want me to hear like my, my, my, snarky synopsis of this doc that A, I enjoy it. I don't know. Do I? I think you're hard on yourself. Like, you kept, you know, it's fine. If your job was to make a love letter to see if and why, you succeeded, brother.

Like, this is a beautiful love letter. And it's also like the first interview I'm doing for it too. So like, no one's seen it yet. So I don't really know what it feels like for people who actually care about this. Well, I haven't even got. And I've seen it a thousand times and I'm never going to be happy with it. Because I was like, oh, and I'm watching it yesterday. I was like, fuck, I could have shot.

that better. I could have lived that better. I could have, you know, that's, I only see my mistakes. As, as any good director would. Well, I haven't even, I haven't even got to the hard hitting stuff yet. This is still warm up time. But here's my synopsis. Ready for my snarky synopsis? You ready, Matt? Yeah. Yeah.

All right. That's very brief. Lord Mars Bar created the spirit of radio, and for a decade, this was the world's best station for music, where DJs played what they wanted, and then suits fucked it up, and then the listeners revolted and saved the station. Yeah. Yeah.

That's the story. And along the way, we spend some time with the living legend that is Getty Lee. So we can definitely, there's a good portion where we hear Spirit of Radio and we talk about what inspired that song. And that's, that's beautiful. We get a good, like a pretty good synopsis of who was David Marston and how did he end up as program director and what was different? about David Morrison. Also, I want to shout out, we mentioned his name,

and I have a question about this, but of course, you can't tell the story without Chris Shepard, and he was the star of that station. I used to record his overnights. I would record to cassette, and you heard stuff on those overnights

that you weren't hearing anywhere else, and it was great, and Chris Shepard is a guy. I personally have been trying to get on Toronto mic for 10 years now. But didn't you get him? No, he was on Humble and Fred, wasn't he? He showed up somewhere.

Yeah, well, listen, I produced that show. I can tell you exactly what happened, which is, and I've done an episode, I think, called Searching for Shepard, I think. I'm almost 100% sure. That sounds right. And in that episode, I do air, the last, to my knowledge, the last public appearance from Chris Shepard, which is a 2014 visit to the old Humble and Fred studio, which was on a street called 30th in Alderwood here in South Atobico.

and Chris Shepard it's kind of interesting in that you know he floats in and out of this accent that he invented for his persona Chris Shepard you know where it sounds like he's from England or something and then yeah yeah I remember from Lovink absolutely and he talks about

being like not a professor but maybe getting like degrees and all these different I mean if you went and searched the records I remember I remember the interview yeah like I would bet you dollars to donuts that he did not get any of these degrees but that's another story but that's the last public record of Chris Shepard in 2014,

I have, I can't tell you how hard. And I actually respect a man who wants to disappear. Like, you have the right, Matt, to go disappear in Scotland. I can go disappear in wherever, the mountains of Alberta or something. But Chris Shepard has the right to go off the grid and disappear. But it is wild. How he has disappeared, considering what a big figure he was. How hard did you try to get Chris Shepard on your documentary?

So hard. Every possible avenue, there's rumors that he's in Costa Rica now. We debated flying down there for like a week and trying to find him. We're like, well, we can't afford to do that. But it would be fun. We got close. Some writer whose name escapes me knows how to contact him, said she would reach out, never heard back, followed up. And I think she said, I'm still trying or he hasn't got back to me or something. And it just never, it never came. And then it was almost like, do we turn this movie into a searching for Shepard kind of film? Is that what we, is, do we just pivot entirely and it's like no the movie it's about the spirit it's about David it's it's not

that and maybe maybe there's a there's a future film where we do one find trying to find Shepard who knows if this does well at all maybe someone will want to pay for that but but I like I agree with you I think it's so cool that he's just gone there's another doc that came out before

yours a play to record documentary and yeah they use archival footage because that's all they have but it was another example where I was thinking it's wild we can't get Shep to talk about this he bought all his DJ stuff there and everything. It was a key part of the documentary

and your doc, the CFWI doc, I mean I can tell you and I think I've shared this before but people on the were basically having interviews with me about leads because I do have some interesting leads and all of them are pointing to Costa Rica. All my leads. And I

have a gentleman who's reached out who says Shep is living with his aunt in Costa Rica and they're having trouble reaching her and this guy was trying to see if I had any way to reach Shepard so they could reach his aunt. And I've had several moments like this with, and then I go back and toggle back and forth between the man clearly wants to be off the grid and he wanted to disappear, let the man disappear. So I often think about this too, searching for Shep, like go to Costa Rica, track him down.

And then I always remind myself, leave the guy alone. he clearly wants to be off the grid. Yeah. Or has to be off the grid for other reasons that we might not know. That's some stuff I've heard too. Oh, dude, I've got those too. But that's also just people want to make stories up, right, too,

and like make it sound, oh, he's hiding from the mafia or whatever. I don't know. That's the one. Yeah, that's the one, yeah, exactly, right? Oh, Lauren Honickman. Yeah, but Lauren Honeckman wants me to say allegedly. So Lauren says... Yes, of course, allegedly.

Everything is allegedly. Yes, of course. Allegedly, a lot of those club shows were cash transactions, and allegedly the mob is very interested in Chris Shepard, and therefore allegedly Chris Shepard had to disappear. Allegedly, yes. No, I mean, I'm so far from that, I have no idea what's true. But I like the idea of that story.

That's fun. I mean, it's terrible, but it's fun. Yeah, so you're, it's a cool ending to, like, this guy's, like, career here. Like, it's like a Bob Dylan story. Like, even you saying he's changed his voice a little bit to sound English. Like, it's kind of the Bob Dylan story in a way, like, of a crew. creating this persona. Yeah, 100% it's a persona.

And, yeah, so if anybody, if Shep's listening to me right now, Mike at Trottomike.com, reach out, brother, let's talk, okay? But the other name... You know, email me two years ago. So I was keen, like, you know, for years I've wanted to see this documentary and see how you handle the Shepard stuff. And shout out to Cliff Cohen, who gets to say some lovely words about Chris Shepard. I hope he made the 60-minute cut, right?

He made the 60-minute cut, right? He did. He absolutely did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That'll make his day there. Also, Captain Phil Evans is a sweetheart. I want to shout him out. He made the 60-minute cut. Sure did. Went to Vancouver to go talk to him.

That was fun. And speaking of Vancouver, much love. Oh, man. I used to record with him on the reg, but we got to get him back. Brother Bill made the cut. Yeah, that was one of my favorite interviews. He talking about, and I wish I could have kept this in, but he got real emotional talking about Martin.

And it was one of, it was, and it got me to cry behind the camera. And I was like, I need to put this in. And I just couldn't put it. It didn't fit. And it's too bad. But I did tell Dunlop, legally I don't know what I can give him. But if I can give him the footage of anyone talking about Martin, it's his. Like, because I have so much.

Do you think that doc will ever come out, the Dunlop streak doc? I think making a dock, I mean, having done one now, it's really hard. It's a lot of work for not a lot of money. And it's a lot of clearance. And people want money for footage and videos and music, obviously, and all that stuff. And you do need to do anything music adjacent, you do need some money behind you because it's record labels and all of it. And you can't tell a Martin story without some music in it, you know?

You know, one thing about that dog is he put a sizzle reel on YouTube and every stitch of that audio was from Toronto mic to episodes. There you go. Yeah, that's... I'm hearing Robbie Jay, who is not in the dog because he comes a bit later. But a lot of people who knew and loved Martin have been on the show. Of course, you got Alan Cross. And anyway, I love all these people.

They're all sweethears. No wonder there's not much dirt. I'll tell you later. Exactly, right? Everyone's so lovely. But you mentioned Martin Streak. So it sounds like, because I did, I was very interested in how you handle the Martin Streak stuff. And I actually was a mildly surprise at how little Martin Streak there was in the dock.

And he only, and again, you didn't have three hours. Yeah. Yeah, exactly, right? And it's, and what do you, what can you say more than what we got in the interviews other than, I mean, I could have put Brother Bill's four or five minute, like beautiful monologue, but It's just, it's too long for a film. I hear you, because it is a bit, again, maybe this is a criticism, but it's mildly jarring that you get the, you get the streak love,

but you don't get any friend of streak speaking of the tragedy that unfolds in 2009. You get the screen that just says. Yeah. I think, I think, yeah, go ahead. I think we all kind of agree that that was the best way to handle it. I don't really remember the comment. There was definitely a conversation about that because we knew we have to do that tastefully and correctly and also legally because I mean my heart of hearts I

well I don't know my heart of hearts I won't say that I don't think the chorus decision had anything to do with it I mean maybe it did I don't know but you also got to be careful because you can't blame anyone because no one really knows what happened you can't blame anybody no like listen jobs change things happen but the best way to handle that without going overboard in any direction was probably just the title card the way we handled it. Understood. At least we thought.

Yeah. Understood. And then one more name I just want to ask you about because he's completely absent from the doc. And I know you're going to tell me it's because you guys end this dock in like, I don't know, 1990 or so. You kind of, it's kind of, yeah, around there. But it was interesting to me that there was no reference to the late great

Dave Bookman. The late great day. No. Of course, Bookie. I know, I'm sorry, yeah, Booky. So, Booky, go ahead. I wanted to end it with a, yes, I actually had a really, I had something. I'm trying to remember what it was.

I haven't thought about this in two, two, three years. Right. There was, I wanted to dedicate it because he, he, in my mind, took the spirit and carried it on. Like, Booky was the spirit of radio for the 90s and 2000s. And there was something that I wanted to put it like in memory of Booky. But you can't just throw in memory or kind of explain that in this story because who is this guy for anyone who doesn't know the story. Right. Yeah, I'm with you, man. I know. I know. Good point, though. You're not making this. This talk, you know, if somebody actually finance this thing and expect some return on investment, you can't make it for CFNY heads.

No, I would have, and that's a whole different movie. That's any documentary, right? You can't do it for the, I mean, you do it for the diehards too, because you want to put a couple of Easter egg and little things in there that they might love. But like, you are doing it for a broader audience of, oh, this is what, like, this is, this station is why we have archaards. fire. Why we have a broken social team? Why we have this indie scene at Toronto that like won bunch of Grammys 10 years ago. Without the spirit of radio, the Toronto music scene would not, and I even would dare to say the Toronto cultural scene. Like what Toronto is now

is very different than the 80s. And I think CFNY had a huge part of it becoming this inclusive open artististics kind of city that it's become. And this did hit the cutting room floor because this did appear in the

longer cut, and then there was no room for it in the 60-8 version. But, yeah, well, a couple of bands. Well, one particularly, of course, is Bear Naked Ladies, because Stephen Page, you do see him in the shorter cut. But in fact, he's in that trailer, actually, that I played.

Which, by the way, it's worth noting that trailer is essentially the first two minutes of the film. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, the TV version, yeah. Right, the TVO. Well, the only, that's the thing, again, I'm going to, I have another, I have some more version questions for you. But hold on.

So the other band, I know, I know, I know. almost, has this been okay? Like, I'm not, you're not in... I'm loving this, man. Yeah, absolutely. I haven't talked about this in two years. So it's fun. But that's, that's going to lead to another question, which is, you seem to have been cut

out from this. Like, your name is still going to be on it. It's going to be directed by Matt Schichter. On my blog, I was wondering if it's going to be, uh, who is it, Al Smithy? Who is it that directs thing? Someone else mentioned that too, my editor. When I heard there was a new cut, I said it to my editor being like, did you cut this? And he's like, no.

But if I didn't, I want to be Alan Smithy on it. So it was like, yeah. Yeah, so, okay, let me wrap up on the band. So Blue Rodeo, okay, so Jim Cuddy is in this dock. A lot of FOTMs in this dock, by the way, and you're now an FOTM, so congrats to you, Matt. Thank you. Oh, I feel very special. But Jim, you've been waiting.

You've been waiting. You knew my number. Come on. Since episode 102.1. Oh, my God. I think, oh, by the way, you could have put something in the closing credits to say, like, you know, all the, you know. Did I not? No, you didn't. Because I, in the longer version, I could actually.

Did you watch all the credits looking for your. your name. I'm so sorry. I mean, I do that too, to be fair. But yeah. Of course I did. Of course I did. But I did see FOTM Hall of Famer. Ed Conroy is listed there. Yeah, so Blue Rodeo, there is stuff that got cut, but talk about how try, and I've had, you know, I've had Greg and I've had Jim on the show. We talk about this, but

the first single tanks, and then he talks about the only station that was playing Blue Rodeo from the beginning of outskirts there was CF and Y. And all that gets cut for time, obviously. It's cut for time. And at the end of the story. And it doesn't really fit. If you're trying to tell the story of the spirit of radio,

I mean, I love Cuddy. Cuddy's one of my favorite interviewees, always. But Blue Rodeo isn't CFNY music. Like, it doesn't fit with the new wave stuff, the 60-minute version, or the very-niquid ladies, for that matter. Like, that's a different sound than the spirit of radio. Yeah, because Bernicke-Ladies is post-Spirit of radio.

And much love- But just after, like, they're still on 83 Kennedy Road South. It still happens in that building, but it is just after the story. story. I think you could probably say that when Mars Bar leaves that note and was it Leslie Cross? Who shared the note? Leslie Cross. Leslie Cross came to her interview at

Daniel N was Grant Avenue Studios in Hamilton with a basic, oh, here's another Canadian reference, with a tickle trunk full of CFNY photos and gear and merch and memorabilia and I'm so happy she had that note. I cannot believe she kept it. I mean, I can believe she kept it. Well, of course she did. I had her

on episode 102.1. She loves David Mars in and she loved working there and she loved everybody there. So, but so I feel like really spirit of radio ends the moment of the great legend Mars bar leaves that note on the kitchen table.

Yeah, pretty much. And then of course, like anything, everything dies and then it slowly wilts away afterwards. You have to kind of have a little bit of napalogue of here's what happened afterwards. And luckily for us, it's the Larry Bates part. So there is a bit of a like, ooh, what happens? And that's yeah. And then and then, but then the story does end and then it's a whole different thing.

Right. And then it's the, well, then there's a transition to the edge, but like, that's a different thing. 100%. Okay. So, again, this 60-minute version that you handed off, which was a 60-minute edit for TVO, I guess, because you had been told that we did a 60-minute version for TVO. How confident are you, Matt, that that's the version that will air on January 6th? I would think it's very close

if it's not the same version. I honestly have no idea for multiple reasons that probably shouldn't get into on here, but that's fine. I can't imagine it's that different because it would take so much work to change too much of it.

Like it's, it would, it takes a year to edit a documentary. There's like hundreds of hours of footage. So I can't be that different. And it was signed off by everybody, including the bond and insurance and all these like higher ups and people everywhere.

So it's, it can't be that different. I mean, I asked Alan for the link to this TVO version. He sent it to me, that which is my cut. But he said they changed two title cards. I don't see title cards being different than what I remember. But again, it's two years ago. So maybe there are a couple of little things that are changed. But those are super tiny changes.

Exactly. And there's a Rush album cover that doesn't seem to be in the TVO version that I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Why isn't that there? Who knows? It's funny. I asked, so full disclosure, I did reach out to the three amigos there, Ivor, Scott, and Alan and asked if I could see, like privately, I wouldn't share it, but can I see the version that's

going to air on TVO? And they told me it's not done yet. Well, I find that hard to believe in considering it's staring in two weeks. And considering you delivered it almost, like almost a year ago, right? Yeah. Now, unless they have made change, again, they might have made some changes. And at this point. I don't really care. But here's my question. So, you know, you mentioned this is your, you know, are they even going to want you to do

any press? Like, I joke about the Al, Alan Smithy thing, but we don't know. So as we speak, we don't know what's going to air on TVO because we're just. I guess not. That's kind of mysterious. That's kind of fun. Okay. Your voice and cadence, may I tell you, reminds me of Mike Epple, who in this market shows up

on breakfast television and 680 news. you're the timbre of your voice very similar okay thank you I'm sure I recognize his voice if I hear it I might have to get you and Mike Eppel like on a little Zoom with me together and just do like go back and forth read the same lines

yeah very similar timbre I wonder if anyone else listening has picked up on it but as I hear you in the headphones so I guess the final through my AirPod mic too I'm sorry well you sound fine to me you sound fine to me and I really am glad you did this because you know I'm it's going to be like your I don't know

in court or something and cross-examining you on this thing and I don't I don't know I guess I'm wondering because I've heard

from multiple sources now that this film has been edited by somebody else so I don't know who that is Matt I'm so confused because if you delivered a 60 minute version

and if it's except for a couple of title cards that's what we're going to see on TVO and again once I see this thing on TVO because nobody can stop me from viewing a doc on TVO But once I see it, I'll know what's different, because I'll compare and contrast, and I'll report back, of course.

But I don't understand why external editors would be involved. Like, if they needed a couple of titles, I don't understand. I don't understand what's going on with you and this documentary. If this is your documentary, why is there any controversy anywhere? I don't get any of it. I honestly have no idea. This is all news to me. it's it's all very again I well so my my theory and maybe this is why I said oh you're I'm boring you

you're looking at watch you're I got a text but I got a text from Mike Epple we're not live anywhere we're not live anywhere Matt so I got a text from Matt how often does he text you I think he's excited I won a podcast award last night and he's very excited about it oh congratulations that's amazing yeah so there you go nice you deserve it that lets people know what time we're talking here Friday, December 19th. But was there any falling out with you and the kind gentleman from CFNY? I'll leave it at that.

Okay. Because there's a missing link here and maybe that's the missing link and you don't owe me any explanation or any private information. No, you know what? I will say a little more because I think that that will actually lead to more than it actually was. I think they disagreed with some of the stuff. I had to make some decisions at the end saying I'm the director, someone needs to make a decision we don't have time. I think that might have angered a couple of people

because it wasn't there. The stuff that they wanted, I think they wanted some different, a different way of telling the story, adding some voiceover, adding some of this, adding some of that. And I'm like, those decisions, I would have been all four. Had this been in six months ago, but like this is a week before we're delivering

the cut. Like the move, this is the structure of the film. Those are huge structural changes. And it's a different movie if and this wasn't the idea, but forgive me, if Alan's narrating the whole thing. Like, that's a different film. It's a different way of cutting it. It's a different story.

It's taken music in and out at different points. And I never wanted to have a narrator. The guests narrate the movie in this, but the guest, it's not a show. The interviewees narrating. Yeah, which I like. I like that better than having the narrator. And it's a different, yeah,

and maybe the narrator version might have been a better film. I don't know, but it was too late in the process to change those kind of creative decisions. And I think that might have been part of it. there was also some stuff with highball that I'm not going to get into that I think all of us are not happy with. And I think a lot of, and I think honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with that more than us bickering.

Creative choices, whatever. We'll get over. We're adults. Who cares? There's some other stuff that is a bigger problem. So I did get a statement from Alan Cross because I was curious. I knew that things would have to come out of a 90 minute doc, if you're going to fit it into a 60 minute slot, even though the credits are impossible to read, because in two seconds,

you get like 20 minutes of credits. I'll tell you this. I didn't do that. That was sped up afterwards. Is that even legal? Yes. Yes, because you see it like, you know, when, oh, what channels are they? When they, when like the, it goes full screen and then it goes to the little corner and then.

Yeah. So it is, yes. Yeah. I sped them up, but I don't, I mean, maybe I did speed them up that much to hit the time, but I, it felt very fast watching it yesterday. Here's the quote from Mr. Cross, who's always been very kind to me. And he always answers my emails. And there's very few people in that universe where you can write them an email and they'll actually reply to you no matter who you are.

That's true. Very few people. A lot of people is like, I will reply to you if you can help me get a gig that pays money or something. But no, he'll reply to everybody. So love to Alan Cross. Cross is not his real name. Maybe that's a documentary. Okay.

So Alan writes me, the first. Final 20 minutes of the film followed the station after 1991. TVO trimmed that to keep the time period to 1977 to 1991. That's it. And to give some context, that statement, that reply to me was because I asked, because I'm a gifted, former gifted student, probably had too much drain damage to still be a gifted person. But I know that if you got a 90-minute dock and it needs to go in a 60-minute slot,

you've got to make some cuts but my question was did they and their editors add anything to the dock that was not in the 90 minute version that was my specific question and this is the reply from alan cross so i don't understand why alan says tv o trimmed things to make it 90 minutes if you delivered the 90 minute version no sorry i said that wrong i don't know why what what how he says tv o trimmed things to keep it 60 minutes when you delivered to me so i could watch your final 60 minute cut. Yeah, that's news to me. I mean, I definitely, I didn't even use miles.

I cut myself that part on my laptop because I knew it had to be quick because they wanted to watch it. And again, it's good. The version I sent EU, which came from Allen, whether or not that's the final version, again, TBD until the 6th of January. Oh, I have assimilated. Oh, what have I said? Sixth of January.

That's how they say it here. But I think you and I both know. January 6th. Well, no, but January 6th has a connotation. Yeah, January 6th has a whole different connotation. I just realized. Danny Elwell and I were talking about that. We'll be calling it the 6th of January then.

We'll be calling it the 6th of January for the TV open. But I do remember at some point years after 2001, I'd be invited to something and it would be September 11th. And forever, I'm like, oh, yeah, September 11th. Like, we can just treat that like a regular day. But when you hear that, oh, the big day is October's, I mean, sorry, the big day is January 6th, yeah, your first thought is there's going to be some kind of an insurrection. Yeah. I mean, that fits with the whole station vibe, right? Like, that's, that's the listener

revolt. All right. So, in a very different way, obviously. Matt, you've been great. Like, again, we've only had, until today, we've only had email exchanges, but you did send me the loveliest email. You were on your way to interview Geids Romo. And I think you were on a train. I think you're on a train. I was. And you sent me. Because he was, he was building a station near Windsor in Amherst, Ontario. And you sent me this... Still building stations, Mike. He's still building stations.

I like how you slip that in. Yeah, he was the engineer. Oh, by the way, he was the engineer. And it's like, hey, would you go on the radio with Pete Griffin? Different Peter Griffin, everybody. Okay, that'll be confusing for the kids, too. Peter Griffin was on the morning show. My goodness.

So, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. We lost him. Well, I think he lived to be 80, but okay, I digress. So you wrote me a note to say, basically, that you were listening to you, Geets Romo here in the basement here in South Atopico because I had a pretty long discussion with him. I played a lot of Ping Gates and I just think it's really sweet that you

reached out to let me know because you didn't owe me anything. I didn't know you were listening but you let me know that you found my Toronto miced episodes of CF&Y personalities to be entertaining and helpful. So I just want to say thank you. Yeah, I did like I said at the beginning of this chat.

Oh, and I see you're wrapping up now. Okay, so it's a good full circle. Look at you, you are a good host. You brought it all full circle towards the you did you I mean like I said listen there's only so many interviews with a lot of these people you happen to be archiving it very very well and like in depth with a lot of research and you and obviously even from this chat you care and that's all you can ask for when you're trying to research a documentary that does like where am I going to find an interview with lesley cross you know like the only place is you right which is fantastic that that that that you've done this

you know it's lovely and hopefully hopefully I can carry that torch a little bit with this movie if it's still my movie in two weeks well there's the there's the crux, right? Neither of us know what will air on TVO on January 6, 2026. But I guess you'll need a VPN or something. I'll find a way.

I was actually supposed to still be in Toronto and then the movie I'm shooting at the end of January got pushed up a little bit. Now I fly back New Year's Eve, unfortunately. Well, I was going to ask, like, because they're going to have a premiere of sorts at the Chorus Key Building, I believe, like they're giving out tickets on chorus-owned radio stations.

like that's kind of cool it's cool but the director won't be there no director has not been asked to be there either though director never said no never asked now that could be of my issues with highball but that's okay but there is definitely something here so when we see the version that airs and we haven't seen the version that'll air if it is like we don't know we're speaking about a hypothetical here but i'm wondering how different it will be from the 60 minute cut you shared with me and i'm wondering if it's too different, and again, it may not be different at all, I don't know, I don't know, but

how different... And it could be better. I don't know. But at what point, it's sort of like if you have a ship and then you change it part by part and then at some point there's no original parts? Right. Yeah. Is it still my movie? Yeah. I mean, if it's not, and they still credit me as director, I might take issue with that. If I, if I hate

it, but if it's like, if it's 95%, and they wanted to change a couple of things or add a couple of things, I think two years ago me would have been really pissed off about that. I think now I've made three or four other movies since. I like my head's not there anymore. It's it's it's it's their story to begin with. Okay. Yeah, you were hired gun and you did your best and I think you did a great job and we'll we'll find out together what yours and if it's any different. And then maybe if it is different, maybe you and I have a very quick catch up on Zoom

and talk about that. Okay. So tell us what you're up to now. You know what I like. I like that there's a little mystery right now over the holidays of will it be the come, will it not be? Not that anyone cares other than me or you, potentially maybe if a few dozen other people pretend. I think that it's a little story for the media. If anyone cares they're listening to Toronto Mike.

And I've been criticized in the past like, and I always think about the man who shot Liberty Valance which I just watched in its entirety a week ago maybe two weeks ago. But of course we've been quoting that movie forever because at the end it's like, you know, this is

the West when when when when legend becomes fact we print the legend or something to that effect and I always wonder like sometimes with these things especially like when people who uh it's so close to their heart like people like Alan and Iver and Scott their legacy is that they were there like they you know how many people were there well they were there like this is their legacy CFNY what a special time so you know and this is sort of a monument like a tribute, a love letter to this time that they were a part of this and they can share it with the whole country on TBO and I understand they're looking for distribution outside of Canada or maybe they're working on that and should have an announcement at some point, which is kind

of exciting, but you're a hired gun to deliver that and I think you delivered it and I think it'll be fascinating for me and the people who give a shit and there's more than you think to find out, I guess I got to find out from you and I since who else could really speak to this, or will speak to this, but that version on TVO versus the 60-minute version you shared with me, what are the differences? Can you even tell the differences? I've now seen your doc so many times. I feel like I'll be able to do it beat by beat by beat. Yeah, and I'm glad I watched it again yesterday before this chat, so that way I can also be like, right, it's fresh again, you know? It's fresh again. You mentioned, you mentioned, you're working

on some things. Like, let's at least a couple of minutes before we say goodbye here since I'm connecting to you all the way in Scotland, unless you've got to go. I don't know what your timeline's like, but a couple minutes. Oh, we've gone a while, yeah, okay, cool. Tell me what the heck you've been up to since you completed the

CF&Y project. So let's see. I started working a company called Blazing Griffin, who are amazing production company here in Scotland, who just did California Scheman, which is James McAvoy's directorial debut, premiered at Tiff in September. We also had Glenn Rothen that premiered at Tiff in September with Brian

Cox as the director, his first time directing a film. So a couple of big name first time directors. Huge names. Yeah. And California Skeeman will be out in April. I don't think there's a date announced yet. But it is maybe the most proud of thing I've been

a part of. It is such a great movie and a love letter to Scotland, love letter to music, and I think your fans will like it as well because it is a music story at the end of the day. I'll tell it briefly. True story. about two rappers from Scotland, 2003, who realized that the Scottish accent was a little too hard to understand,

put on American accents, people thought they were actually Americans, got a record deal, got pretty big, had some hit songs, and then they got discovered, and it all fell apart. And it is phenomenal. It is.

Jamesack Voick rushed. What's the name of this? What's the name of that Scottish band that put on the American accent? They were called syllable and brains. Okay. And it never, like, I don't think it got huge in Canada,

but like at least here in the UK, people know who they are. And they're like seen as like Scottish Robin Hoods for Scotland because they're like, they stuck it to the man, you know? So it's cool. It reminds me a titch of the soprano's theme song by Alabama 3, which I believe is a Scottish band kind of faking that they're American or something to that effect. Oh, okay.

That's cool. Didn't know that. Because when you hear that, you know, woke up this morning. Like it totally sounds like, I don't know, from Texas or something. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think they might be Scottish. but then I could be completely wrong

and I'll have to fix this in post and that'll never happen and I'll look like an idiot here. All right, so I know twice now, I think I said I was rapping with you and I should have, except I do a quick, quick question I forgot to ask

because we did bring it up and then I got distracted as I typically do. But 299 Queen Street West, you haven't seen it. No, I want to, but no, I haven't. And then we got off talking about Sean Minerre. I love much music so much.

I love much music so much. It's my childhood. Yeah, but you know what happened. So Crave was going to, to stream it and then they I guess a music... Well, they didn't pay for their music license. They didn't pay for their music license, essentially.

It's what I heard. Whether that's true or... I think you're... I think you're right there. There was a music licensing issue and Sean, for whatever reason, is refusing to sort of rectify it. So it sits in some hard drive in limbo or something.

It's probably very expensive. It's my guess. It's probably like, if not hundreds, tens of thousands of dollars. And he moved on to other projects, mention run Terry run but I feel like if he really cared you could fix this with a edit but that is a lengthy prod and he's moved on to other things right you could fix it well that's the thing that's the thing with the movie like it it does live forever but you as a filmmaker have moved on to other

things and you're like and it's like I used to interview a lot of musicians and I'm sure you have too and at some point they just say the song's never finished it's just abandoned like at some point you have to say it's done now right because I what am I I can't add another guitar layer, or it's going to be too much, you know, whatever it is. But even though I'm wondering if there were lessons learned from that dog that were like, you know, like you do have some music. We mentioned Spirit Radio, but there is more more music than that in this documentary. Yeah, there's Simple Minds.

There's OMD. There's, there's, there's something we haven't, uh, yeah. Go ahead. Uh, and it's something we haven't mentioned at all is Brandon and Ohad from broken social scenes scored the whole film. Right. I saw. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's too bad we're doing it right at the end. That's too bad. That was a big get for me. I was very happy when he said yes.

No, that is a cool fact to drop. And then now I just realized I mentioned that in the credits when you could see the credits, which was the long version. So you guys on TVO, you'll never be able to read these credits. Trust me. Well, I can slow them down. You can, don't you have, there's a button to slow. I watched it at 0.25 speed.

Okay? Think about that for a minute. Still too fast. It is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. And I know what you're talking about when they are. Mike, you have any idea.

how hard it is to do credits it is the most painstaking thing on every single film because legally it has to match all the contracts and has to be correct and everything and this is not just my movie every movie I've ever worked on it is the hardest part of filmmaking and of course it just flies by and no one will ever see it but that's fine but there is a screen

because I have seen the longer version in which there's two screens I thought were interesting one was one was a list of people who had passed on so it said dedicated to the CFN wires who got their wings, and I know that is a Mars bar phrase for when you pass away. But it was interesting

to read the list of CFNWIRs who have got their wings. That was interesting. These people worked in the spirit radio era. And we have to put someone in. We had someone passed away while we were doing credits. Oh, Jim Reed. That's right. Jim reads in the dock. And I remember I got a lovely note from his wife when Jim Reed

passed away because I learned that Jim Reed was a listener of the program and he was a big fan. I had no idea. But yeah, Jim Reed. And in fact, when I recorded episode 102.1, I guess it was just 101, 102.1. At that time, Liz Janick was on the show, and her husband, Peter Goodwin, was ill. But he passed away sometime between then and the completion of your film. But the other screen I wanted to talk about really briefly, and this is really for my buddy Rob Pruse, who will be here early January. But I wanted to, there's a screen where thanks the people who sat down for interviews but didn't make

the film. And again, there's more people, I saw the 90-minute version, people who didn't make the cut. Now, more people have been cut since then. But one name I saw there was Sandy Horn, and I'm curious, because there's a lot of talk about OMD, and you mentioned New Order, Peter Hook, and all this. So a lot of, you know, Brits and, yeah, but was there any thought? Because to me, Burlington Spoons is such a key part of CF and Y. Like, was there ever a thought of a little spoons in there? I certainly was. I wouldn't have sat down with Sandy had there not happened. But it was, you know, it was, it was, again, you don't know the story until you go through

all the interviews and you say, okay, what are the segments? Who says what about what? Who says it best? And who like, I mean, you saw the long version. So it was that little naked lady's part where they, how much money did we win from CFN? What was in a million? It was a 50 grand, was a 500 grand. You kind of piece the things together that work for that. Well, I know the answer, by the way. It was $100,000. $100. There's that what we come to in the film, too? I don't remember. Well, I know this because I've done my own research, okay, Matt? Yeah. Yeah. No, no. But I'm asking you, because you just watched the long version.

I haven't watched the long version in two years. Yeah, it's 100. Is that what my film says. Yeah, okay, good. You got it was, that's where Howard got, he got cut off on this part, but Humble Howard thinks it's 50,000. And someone, I don't know what captain. I don't know who was. Somebody said a million or something, which is. Howard says a million. Yeah. But that allowed us to like get people to say different. numbers, which is just a fun little bit. It was fine. But anyway, so somehow, to answer your question, I don't remember why. I mean, I remember her face being in a cut almost towards the end. I don't remember what it was about, mind you.

But it just, and it's so hard because these people take, get out of their way to do an interview and you, like, you sit down with them, you spend an hour with somebody, and then you're like, I'm so sorry. But. So last, this is now the last question. How many times are going to wrap with me? This is the last. You've been amazing, Matt, honestly.

Like, you are. an FOTM for life, brother. Remember, this is now an award-winning podcast, so this is a big deal for you. That's right. That's right. And I suspect you will not be invited to do any press for this film.

This is my vibe, okay? So this is it. I mean, we're doing something right now. I've got a couple other, I mean, people know, I mean, I've got a couple other things we're going to talk to. Yeah. Okay. Well, people are reaching out because they say, oh, like,

I've got, I mean, obviously, I worked in radio for a long time. A lot of radio hosts are friends of mine. They're like, do you want to do my show? It says directed by Matt Schichter, so people want to... And it's about radio. It's a good thing to talk about on our radio station. Yeah, especially because radio's dying, Matt. Do you know this?

Oh, really? Maybe that's one of the reasons I decided to switch careers, so I don't know. It's hard to believe. There was another doc, a guy named Roger King. Do you know Roger King? No. So he made a film. He made a film...

This is about the three stations at Davidson, right? Well, it's... It's called, they play what they want or we play what we want. I think it has eye in it. I play. I play what I want. Yes, that movie. And it's three different DJs, like Americans and then, but one of them is David Marsden.

And it's interesting, the timing of that, because when I saw that doc, when it finally got released, it was shortly after the good people at The Rock in Oscewa had said goodbye to David Marston. Because when they made the dock, it kind of had this exciting ending where Marston was still playing what he wanted on terrestrial radio. And it was just interesting timing that that era did come. to a close, but okay, I threatened to ask you one more question, so, oh yeah, last

question. I'd like to follow CFNY and much music and the city TV and everything, but I also am very interested in the Gary's and to a point where I was moderating a panel discussion at the Red Room at the Masonic Temple when Gary Topp recently

put on this book. I did notice there is Gary Cormier. Gary Cormier talks about trying to get CFNY because that reception was so poor in the, when they in the yellow house. And I noticed there was no Gary Topp, but I did learn from the credits that Gary Topps sat down. So I guess you only needed one Gary and Cormier got the tap.

His story was better than something Top said. I mean, I don't remember any of these interviews anymore, really, other than what's in the movie, because I've gone through so many times years ago. But, I mean, again, it's one of those things. I'm sure Gary Topps said some lovely things, but it's just at some point someone has to make a decision of being like,

doesn't work for this. And unfortunately for me, I'm the bad guy. Somebody has to be the bad guy. Matt, that's you. And I can't wait to find out how close the TVO airing is to the 60-minute cut that you made. And we'll, uh, if it's, if it's different, we're going to chat again, brother. All right. And if it's the same, no, we, this is our goodbye. We never see each other. If it's the same, we could, we could talk about that, but that would be a boring chat, I think. But we will definitely talk again. And if you're ever in town, I'm going buy you a great legs beer um thanks man great to meet you but thanks for uh you too spending 90 minutes of your day with me talking about yeah yeah i mean i haven't noticed a lot of emails come in i should

probably go do that all right you take care of that thank you matt and uh hope one day to to meet you in person thank you too mike thanks man and that brings us to the end of our 1,827th show and our final show of 2025. Go to Torontomike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs. Much love to all who made this possible. Again, that's retrofestive.ca. Use that promo code FOTM while you can. Great Lakes Brewery, delicious fresh craft beer.

It's all I drink. Palma pasta. They catered my Christmas party. And everybody was delighted. Nick Aieny's. He's back for 2026, and we love to have them. Recycle MyElectronics.ca. That's where I go if I have old electronics, old cables, old devices.

I don't throw that in the garbage. I go to Recyclemyelectronics.ca. Find out where I can drop it off to be properly recycled, so those chemicals do not end up in my landfill. and Ridley Funeral Home. Listen to Life's Undertaking with Brad Jones. See you all Friday for FOTM cast with Cam Gordon and the VP of Sales, Tyler Campbell. Hey VP, there's a sponsorship opening for January.

Suburigines Subrogens Suburigines Suburigines I'm going to be able to be able to be. Thank you.