Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Maureen Holloway: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1922

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

On this 1922nd episode of Toronto Mike'd, Mike chats with CKFM/Mix 99.9/Q107/CHFI radio veteran Maureen Holloway about the end of her podcast, Jennifer Valentyne's Canadian Human Rights Commission complaint against Corus for their handling of John Derringer, what happened to Darren B. Lamb, her breasts, Toronto morning radio hosts of yesteryear and whether she's officially retired or not.A version of this podcast without programmatic ads is available to all Toronto Mike'd Patrons at patreon.com/torontomike.Toronto Mike'd, an award-winning podcast, is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Ridley Funeral Home, Nick Ainis, and RecycleMyElectronics.ca.If you would like to support the show, we do have partner opportunities available. Please email Toronto Mike at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Maureen Holloway. Coming to you live from Mike's basement. It's okay, I'm all right. Don't worry. I'm supposed to be here. People know that I'm here. And yeah, I'm here for a conversation about what? I can't tell you.

But stick around and fight out. I also told people you'd be here. For my safety. If I don't, if I disappear, Maureen Holloway is the first suspect. Okay. Welcome to episode 1,922, 1922 of Toronto Mike. An award-winning podcast proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery.

Order online at great lakes beer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA. Palma Pasta, enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga. and Oakville. Visit Palma Pasta.com for more. Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. Catch a game at Christy Pits this summer. No, ticket required. Fusion Corpsoe Nick Aeis.

He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline. And Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle by Electronics.C.A. Committing to our planet's future means properly recycling our electronics of the past. And Ridley Funeral Home. Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, making her return to Toronto-Miked. It's Maureen Holloway.

Welcome back, Maureen. Thank you. Did you say Toronto-M-T-T? Yeah, like the show is called Toronto-M-T, so it's M-I-K-E-A-A-Postrophe D. Oh, after all these... Yeah, yeah, I know, I always thought it's just Toronto-Mike. You know, I am Toronto-Mike, and the show is called Toronto-Mik.

I don't know, it came to me in like a fever dream, in like 2012, maybe 2011. Anyways, around the time Humble and Fred started recording, like, daily, and it's stuck in my head anyway. I did not know that till now or did not notice. My goodness gracious. An apostrophe can make such a difference. Anyway.

Well, welcome back. Thank you. I, well, before we press record, I'm wearing a hoodie, a McGill hoodie, because it's actually that kind of day. Like, I thought we were in summer mode, but it got cool today. Well, it's a very attractive hoodie. It's a red hoodie, so it's very patriotic and apropos. And yeah, it's the right, you're right.

It's a kind of snuggy day. Did you go to McGill? No, I went to, I'm from Montreal, but I didn't go to McGill. Okay, okay. I wish I had, but when you're, people don't want to go to the university in the town that they're from. But some people have to because they're poor. Or, well, I mean, in, in Toronto's case, we have one of the best universities in the world

right here. Right. Which, of course, is George Brown. No, no offense. U-T, obviously. But it's everybody wants and should maybe go away. And so I grew up in Montreal and so McGill was not in the cars because I wanted to get out. Where did you go?

Well, you see, I went to Carlton, which, you know, Carltonites, unless you're studying criminology or Spanish or something, it's not a top-rated university. But what it did have when I went, I finished high school. I was 16. Quebec only goes to grade 11. Didn't want to go to Sejep. Carlton had at the time what they called a qualifying year. So if your marks were good enough, you could get in and get first year credit. So basically hasten the whole university experience.

And Carlton was the only place that did that. So I ended up going there. Did so badly in my first year. I was 16. Yeah, well, I'm still processed because we had grade 30. I mean, we called it OAC, but I went to a grade 13. Yeah. Yeah, well, we didn't.

We had two, you had two years of Sehep. And I was 16. I'd gone to a convent girls boarding school. And then I was unleashed. It was the late 70s in Ottawa. No supervision. Lots of drugs. Lots of boys.

And I had an F average after a qualifying year and I couldn't get into any other university. So, I mean, I know we probably covered this in the past. It's not your first visit here. It's a long time ago. I got my first rodeo. How do you go from bombing out of Cartoon You,

as we call it, right? To getting a job at CKFM. Oh, well, that, no, no, so, no. I skipped a decade. He skipped a decade, at least. No, I mean, I finished a carlton. I actually finished a four-year degree with honors. Okay, okay, okay.

You know, I did extremely well when I figured out what I was supposed, I did extremely well when I went to glass. Right. And then I worked for, I had a degree in film studies. I moved to Vancouver. I worked for a, I worked for a sort of, artsy film distribution center worked for Xerox for a while

because I thought it might be fun to make some money. So I sold copiers. And then I kind of, then I bummed around Europe for a while. And then I thought, you know what? I'm 24. I got to figure out what it is I want to do. So I figured I wanted to get into advertising. Went to Ryerson,

which is now, of course, I always call it too much university. and got into the RTA program radio and television arts and was hired my first year out of school to do cottage country traffic at CKFM. There you go. You know what, okay, yeah. That's how it happened?

You know, how do I gloss over those Xerox years, right? I was only there for six months, but it made enough money to bum around Europe for a year. I remember when I worked in office environments, attractive young women would sell us photocopiers. Yes. And they would take it to lunch or something. And then all the goofballs would be so excited this,

Pretty young thing was like having taken them out to lunch, they would go buy a bunch of copiers with like a company's money. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. Okay. So that was, that's very effective. But they didn't keep you. You decided to. No, no.

I made, I think, don't forget, this would be like 1980. And I think I made $35,000 in six months. That's a lot today, I feel. Yeah. Well, it was a lot in six months. And I said, you know, I'm, I don't, this is not what I want to do. So I think I'll just take the money and, and. go off to Europe, which I did. Right. So I'm wearing the McGill hoodie because my daughter just graduated

from McGill. Congratulations. And thank you very much. And she also, she went off for a few weeks. She went to Europe, a few weeks before getting back to like a real world or whatever. But she's back now, living in Montreal. And yesterday was Father's Day. And it's still a little sad that I have 70, I had 75% of my children with me yesterday. But it's funny that you have great time with three of your children, but you're just thinking, oh, I'm missing one. Well, first of all, like, you too many children. You know, if you close the factory,

Maureen. That's it. But yeah, I know what you mean. Father's Day is really, it's tough when you get older. I'm not a big fan of either fathers or mother's day. Birthday is yes.

Right. But the rest is sort of, you know, a forced manufactured event. Right. And I mean, if your kid doesn't show up for you one way or another on father's day, it doesn't mean they don't love you.

Right. That's right. If they don't show up on your birthday, that means they don't love you. don't get in touch with you on your birthday. That means you failed. Well, I got a new my birthday and Father's Day are very close together. So I feel like they're being merged. Yeah. Same with my husband. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm going to do this off the top. And then I'm going to tell you what happened today that made me think of Maureen Holloway. Okay. Although you were in the

calendar before today. Oh, I was on your calendar. Okay. You're in the calendar. So that should have reminded me. But I want to make sure you, Maureen, your loved ones, everyone listening at home, all the the FOTMs know that we have an event on Thursday. So I'm talking to you on June 22nd. On June 25th, which is a Thursday from 6 to 9 p.m. Everybody is invited to Great Lakes Brewery at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard where Palma Pasta is going to feed you. So come hungry and come hang with us 6 to 9 p.m.

on Thursday, June 25th, 2026. The 22nd Toronto mic listener experience. So Maureen, stick that in your calendar. I'm just watching. You're sticking it in your calendar. Okay, and I am going to send you home with some fresh craft beer, Maureen, and I have a frozen lasagna in my freezer for you. Can I ask you about this?

Of course. That's a measuring tape from Ridley Funeral Home. What are they measuring? That's Ridley's funeral home. Why would you need a tape? Your casket could come in a variety of sizes, Maureen. Oh, really? Well, I actually, no.

I think it's just a handy thing or whatever. Listen, there are a fine funeral home. This is not to disparage your sponsor. Right. I know where, I know my optometrist has these because they want to measure how far you have to sit from your screen to see clearly. Right. But the whole concept of measuring a casket. Got to say, Mike.

A little weird. Well, that is a Brad Jones special. And he's got a great podcast called Life's Undertaking. He's the funeral director at Ridley Funeral Home. Oh, you must have some stories. He's got, he's been doing that a long time. And I was going to say, this is episode 1920. two, and he's not around since 1921,

but that funeral home has been there at 14th in Lake Shore since 1921. A lot of dead folk. They've seen a lot of death, Marine. Well, speaking of death, okay? So speaking of death, which comes for us all. Sorry. It's okay. It comes for us all. I was reading today that Clive Davis passed away. Really?

Yeah. And then I was thinking, oh, my God. Like I'm thinking Whitney Houston and, you know, Clyde. And then I'm thinking, oh, he had these legendary Grammy parties. And then I was like, how do I know this? And I'm like, it was people like Maureen Holloway who would give me entertainment news and tell me things. Like Clive Davis had a big Grammy's party. Yeah, he did. I don't do that anymore.

No. But do you have like, because you did it for so long, do you find yourself taking mental notes on entertainment news in case you need it? It's interesting because it was sort of like, good question. Back when I did traffic, I didn't care about traffic. But that's what my job was. Right. And people would corner me at parties and say, oh, I got stuck on the 400 the other day and start telling me about it like I gave a rat's ass. You can swear on this show.

You gave a shit. But with regards to entertainment, yeah, I found it interesting, but that was sort of like the thing that I got that would get me through the door. And it wasn't like, it's not like I cared. Like some people who do gossip and do it well, and there are quite a few people in this business, they do care. You know, I'm thinking of Lainey for it who's probably turned it into an art form. And I think she really does. She really is viscerally interested in what's happening with famous people. For me, it was just a grist for the mill.

It was just an opportunity to tell jokes or tell stories. And one thing that I do like about gossip or media stories is that it does, it's one of the few things that still brings us together, you know, like talking around the, town square or the water cooler. Oh, like when Will Smith slaps. Oh, well, that was almost an international incident. That transcended entertainment. That's too big. Yeah.

But I think for the most part, I think it's just fun because we can talk about people like we know them, but we don't. But do I personally, to answer your original question, I like watching awards shows knowing I don't have to cover it on social media or talk about it. I can actually relax and enjoy it. But if there is something pithy that I need to say, or pissy, depending, I guess I can take to social media. Although my kids tell me I'm not allowed to post anything after 9 o'clock.

Not after smoking a joy, anyway. Well, I was going to say you could always put it on your substack. Yeah. So my substack, which I do with Wendy Mesley, it's called, it's named after our podcast, Women of Ville Repute. And thanks for bringing that up. That's going through a sort of transitional stage rate. I mean, we're still posting regularly, but it started when we started our podcast,

which I guess would be about three years ago, it was suggested to us that one of the best ways to promote the podcast would be to write about each episode. So every week we would take turns writing a profile on our guest and then we stopped doing the podcast and but we still had an audience because we also would write about other stuff, whatever, you know. sometimes personal. Wendy tends to be very political, very journalistic. I tend to be very personal. But our podcast wasn't growing, but our substack audience was, is. So that's why we've kept that up. And it's still called women of ill repute. And we still post every week alternating. It's my turn tomorrow.

And yeah, we talk about everything under the sun. I see, I keep track of it because it's interesting, but also because you make regular appearances on humble and Fred. And I, uh, you do send in like show notes and I make sure the guys get it and everything. But I mean, that's always a clue of what's kind of bouncing around your head is what are you writing about on your substance. Yeah. I don't know what I'm writing tomorrow. Okay. Honest to God. I want you to write your substack about your Toronto mic return. Okay. Maureen Holloway. It has to have, you know, I might do that, but I try to have a more universal appeal. Well, you don't, you can say some, uh, some award winning podcaster in his

basement studio. But, okay, before we go any further, because I want a lot of ground I want to cover. Okay. But I'm going to like shout out your first three appearances on this program. Okay. Okay. Let's walk through this. And also kind of ties it nicely with Father's Day being yesterday because your first appearance was in February 2017. And it happened to be episode 217 of Toronto Mike.

So that's way back when. And here's what I wrote at the time. Mike chats with CHFI morning show host Maureen Holloway about her years at 99.9. that's the aforementioned CKFM, which became Mix 99.9.9. Now virgin. Now virgin, right? But you were never there for the virgin years. No virgin.

Nope. That horse left the barn a long time ago. I did ask you. I'm just reading what I wrote at the time, Lorraine. I did ask you about working with John Derringer at Q107. Yep. And I do, and this is not what I wrote at the time, but I do remember in my head wondering how you would answer that

because Humble and Fred had given me a detailed briefing on, you know, behind the scenes John Derringer's stories. So I think I knew a lot more than was in the public domain at the time. And I remember you being very clever and how you answered that question. Because I remember you saying John Derringer is an excellent broadcaster. Yeah. Yeah. I remember and he was.

Yeah. I'm not lying. I remember somebody, a listener commenting on that broadcast saying that there was a strange tone. Maureen had a strange tone. when she answered that question, and I'm ever going, oh, you have no idea. Right. But I mean, at that time, like, I was, whatever you said, you were going to say,

you're speaking from Marine Holloway, and I was going to move on. Yeah. Which I did. Okay. But then we did talk about how you took over, and this is going to tie into the first topic. I want to address with you when I finished getting through these three descriptions. But you took over for Radio Legend, Aaron Davis. That's right.

That's C-H-F-I-98.1. So we talked that first time. And the photo I took for that episode is you holding a very young Morgan, who is my youngest. And I kind of love it. You're the only guest in the history of the podcast. You know what I say that? But now I'm thinking, there's been a lot of episodes. I think Sophia, you're, I can ever say it, yours kukovitch.

Sophia Leigh, we'll call her. I think she might have held the kid as well. But definitely you holding Morgan is like my favorite of all the photos. It's a badge of honor. Yeah, it's amazing to see that photo. I'd like you to hold her today, if you don't mind. She's 11? She's 10.

Okay. Oh, well, 10 I can handle. And, yeah, and it made me sad today because I was rainy, so I was walking her to before school care. And it struck me that I've been paying for some form of daycare with a few, like a few stops here and there when there were maternity leaves, et cetera. But I've been paying for some form of child care for like 20-something years, 23 years. Yeah, well, like I said, you know, you have too many children.

But it's over. This is it. Yes. I actually cancel. So I will be paying through, well, Friday's a PD day. Did you know that? Now I no longer keep track. You don't care.

So there's no school. I find it interesting, the last day of school, which is Friday. It's a PD day. Yeah, I know. That is a lot, isn't it? Okay. So this week is the last week I'm paying for before and after school. Care for the 10-year-old.

And we're actually going to, we're going to bike to that tomorrow. And then she's actually not going to use it for Wednesday and Thursday. She's just going to, like, walk to, school like a big girl like she'll do next year so like tomorrow is the last day we'll have our little ritual we've been doing for years where we bike to and from the uh it's called it's the ymca but it's the before and after school care and i felt a little like even though i feel like my job as a parent and you have two older sons but my job as a parent is to make like myself irrelevant like to make them they're independent they don't need me but then when you get to a milestone in that journey

you get a little sad about it if you do your job right they leave right right right Yeah, I know. It's rough, isn't it? Anyway, the end of an era tomorrow for Morgan. Okay, so your second visit, so that was the first time in person, February 2017. In May 2019, you returned to kick out the jams, and that was a lot of fun. We played 10 of your favorite songs of all time. Yeah, we did.

Good times. Okay, but then you returned via Zoom with the aforementioned. With Wendy. Yes, I remember that. We were actually down east. I think we were in New Brunswick at the time. And that was episode 1067, and I wrote Mike chats with Wendy Mesley about her exit from CBC and Maureen Holloway about her exit from CHFI.

Well, that's how we started doing the podcast because we were both, that's why we called it, Women of Ill Repute, although Wendy left under far more inauspicious circumstances than I left. See, my contract was over, they didn't renew it, whereas Wendy was frog marched out from the CBC for less than reasonable reasons. Right. So I must ask maybe to get this out of the way is why did you stop recording episodes of Women of Evil Repute? Why did we stop the podcast?

Right. Financial reasons. Also, you know, okay, neither of us needed to pat our resumes. And we did it for three years. We did 98 episodes, which is a drop in the bucket compared to what you've done. But I'm ridiculous, Maureen. But you are ridiculous, Mike. We didn't realize how much work it would be.

and there was so much that we were not willing to do that other people who have maybe more financially viable podcasts do, which was produce, edit, we didn't want to chase guests. We ended up having a chase producer, who was amazing. We also contracted out the production services.

And that's essentially editing. Yeah, editing, but also, you know, hosting, putting, making, like understanding Oh, distributed. Yeah, the more technical aspects of podcasting, which are not that complicated, but just didn't interest us. But we were very lucky. We had a young woman named Jordana, Jordana Silver. And she offered, she was a big fan.

And she wanted to be, she worked for indie at the time in sales. And she came to us and said, I would really like to represent you and sell your product. And she did. and she made us a little bit of money. She made it worthwhile. She was so good at it that Rogers came to her and offered her a full-time job in sales with Rogers. And she didn't want to take it. And I was, Jordy, are you nuts?

Right. You know, you're in your early 30s. You're given an opportunity to make a lot of money, even though Radio isn't what it was. It's Rogers. But as you, you know, when we talked about Xerox, the one place that still has money is sales. Yeah. And so, but they didn't want her to have any side gigs. So if she took the job, she had to drop.

you know, selling us. So once she left, that was our source of income. Neither Wendy nor I wanted to go out and start pitching and getting sponsors and all that. And it was just the sheer amount of work. But we're very proud of what we did. So we just said, and also Wendy moved. Even though she was physically never here, she was in Prince Edward County. Right.

She then moved. She's now fully Quebec. She lives, she has a country home in the eastern townships and an apartment of Montreal. Her daughter, she and her husband Liam, their daughter lives in Montreal. So she's gone. And the fact that she's gone, even though we weren't in the same room, kind of still has a psychological effect. That is interesting. Yeah.

That's interesting because it's not even a time zone difference. No, no. No, it was just, it was too much work, not enough money. And I think it had run its course. And you guys aren't hungry enough, right? No, that's the problem. That's the problem. And, you know, even in retrospect now, it was a great idea, you know, a journalist and a comedian walk into a bar and so on because when he wanted to be funny, but I didn't really want to be a journalist.

So, yeah, I just felt, I think it was mostly me that wanted to move on. It just ran its course. It was a lot of fun. Would I do it again? No. No, not like that. Maybe something else, but no. It was just, I'm really impressed by people who do podcasts and do them successfully, yourself

included, but I just don't think you can make a reasonable living at it, Mike, in this country. You'd have to do it because you loved doing it. Yeah. I mean, in the States, it's a whole other, I don't know, a ball of wax, but here, I can't think of a single successful Canadian podcast. Like, but really, Peter Mansprich has got one. I mean, but, like, but that's all, you know, Peter Mansbrich. I sell you a reverse mortgage. Yeah.

You're in the market. Yeah. You know, it's... Well, Humble and Fred, in case they're listening. I don't think of that as a podcast. I almost think of it as a radio show online. Okay. You know, that's probably because it's live to tape.

You talked about, you know, outsourcing the editing. And I mean, this particular show you're on now, which is kind of based on Humble and Fred, because we started them off going in October 2011 and then I started in 2012. So that's kind of how the sequencing went. But there's zero editing to this show right now. on right now. Yeah, but that wouldn't have worked for us. Right.

So when I say, no, I'm still, hey, I mean, if the question, if the conversation is headed towards, are you done? Are you, are you, well, are you done? No. No. Am I, am I done with radio? Almost definitely. Radio is done with itself.

Am I done with podcasting? You know, it's funny. I was in an event last week. It was actually Marilyn Dennis's, uh, well, I'm going to get to her in a moment. Okay. But I was talking to a lot, saw a lot of old faces. I mean, some of them were new faces, but what is the joke about? Some of them were more new than others.

But it was really interesting. And, of course, we talked about radio. And I sort of looked around and went, this is kind of the last. The people that are here are the last of the old guard. And sure, there are some, you know, Josie and Nat and Josie were there who were taking over from Maryland. But really, it's the last gasp of a dying empire as far as I'm concerned. I don't see radio having a viable few. certainly not under its current model.

Is the future podcasting? I don't think so either because everybody can do it and there's just too much stuff out there. Not enough of it is good. The barrier to entry is too low. It's too low and there's too much product and it's not good enough. But do people still want to listen to other people and hear human voices? Well, you know what your ace in the hole is? is that you're Maureen Holloway.

Well, I don't know what that means anymore. I mean, I don't consider myself, you know, I've had a really good run and a good kick at the can, but I mean, I don't ever assume anybody knows who the hell I am. Okay, but can I do a little, like, peel, but that's what we do in the show. We peel back the curtain, but I produced the Humble and Fred show. Yeah. That's a fun fact. Yes. And they like recurring voices that they're comfortable with. Yeah. This is a bit, so sometimes I would be balzy and put on a new voice that I thought was, maybe they were good at my show. And I said, oh, I think that went with the guys. And it doesn't work out. It really is a disaster. So I've learned

find the people they're comfortable with and keep going back, like, to that well, basically. So, For example, tomorrow, Larry Fedorick is on the show. Yeah, they have Larry on all the time. And Ralph Benmerky. So those are two shows I produce as well, right? So Larry Fedorick will be on the show, and he's got later that same life. And you worked with Larry at CKFM? Yes, with Humble.

With Humble? Yeah. Right. Okay, so let's get to that in a moment because I want to talk about this old guard, whether they have new faces or not. But one of the voices that we were lucky to get on was you, Maureen Holloway. And then I told the guy, first of all, you're a woman. I am.

I'll repute or not. And you're, honestly, I think you're, and no disrespect to Larry, who's amazing. It was just over, and he's fantastic. I think the world of Larry, too. But you, Maureen Hollowie, in my opinion, are the best podcast guest because you're very quick on your feet. You can roll with whatever and you never know what's going to, you know, fly with those guys or with me for that matter.

But you're also very funny. You have an infectious laugh. And you're pretty brutally honest. Like, I think you're God's gift of podcast. Oh, well, bless. And to peel back the curtain further. So I once asked you out for coffee. Do you remember this?

Yes, I do. So you and I, and I don't know what you thought. Did you think I had a white van and I was going to duct tape you? No, I had no idea. I go, you know what? A few people have asked me for coffee and I've had no idea why. And it never fails to surprise me. So, okay, so I guess you were curious enough and it was in your hood or whatever and we had a coffee.

And really it was just because I wanted your voice on that show every single month. Like I wanted to know, okay, I don't. I don't even remember what we have it at, but the third Tuesday of every month. Second Tuesday. Second Thursday. Thank you. Yeah. I stuck it in the Google calendar and it just recurs.

Yes. Unless you're out of town or whatever. Yeah, I was really happy that you asked. I really enjoyed doing it. It's been a couple of years now. It's been, and they, you know,

they've cut back on their show. So really, there's only one, I don't know how to phrase this. There's only one guest who doesn't pay to come on who comes on every week. Everybody else pays? Well, okay, no.

Larry doesn't pay. I didn't know that. There's only one guest. I only book one guest a week on Humble and Fred that doesn't pay to come on. So it's always Tuesday at 8.15. Does that make sense? So you'll hear voices.

Like there'd be more than just Larry's on the show tomorrow, but that other guest paid to come on. So you're with me now. Okay. Yes. They're really paid sponsor. They come on to talk about their product. You got it.

But you, of course, do not pay to come on. I don't have a product. You know, we're not making any of that women of ill-repewit money from the sub-tag. 10% kicks back to us or whatever. But you're great. Larry's great. You mentioned Ralph. But, you know, we try different voices and some stick and some don't.

But, you know, so most people, Tony Clement is a guest that Fred's in love with. So I know I got to make sure Tony Clement is in the calendar. I think I booked Ralph to just like counterbalance. Like, because Tony's working with Pierre Pahliav and he's a conservative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I felt like, okay, I need something to like counterbalance the Tony. And that's what I brought in the Ralph. Yeah, that makes sense.

Sure. Yeah, I mean, good company. But you're great on that show. And we had coffee. I just kind of pitch this idea and you said yes. And you are the only monthly. People think other guests are monthly, but actually you are the only actual monthly guest.

I'll imagine that. You know, now I, not only do I not pay to be on that show, but I am not paid. And, you know, and I how it were a couple of times that I just, I wish we could pay you. And I was like, well, what are you going to pay me? We can pay me 50 bucks? I mean, the money is so incidental.

I do it simply because I love to do it. And it's one way keeping my hand in for God, who's what? Well, it must be scratching the it. Yeah, it does. It does.

It does. You get in front of a mic and you get to yak with somebody. They're so, they're so funny, but they're also so insightful,

both of them. Fred especially. Howard, Howard just breaks barriers wherever he goes. But Fred is maybe a little more thoughtful about some things.

But it's great. It's great conversation. Yeah, it scratches an itch. Exactly. And I love doing it. Okay. So you remember this party?

Was it just like the farewell party? Because Marilyn. The New Zealand's last day on Chum FM is this Friday. This Friday. So this was like friends and colleagues of Maryland? No, it wasn't, I thought it was. Because she told me a while ago, she said, okay, June 19th, write it down. That's my farewell.

And I was, oh, of course. And I kind of thought that it was going to be an intimate affair with maybe, you know, maybe 50, 60 people from the industry that it would be like a dinner and that, there would be toasts and there'd be a, you know, video retrospective or, but I mean, she's had all that, right? She'd had that when she got the Order of Canada, so or of Ontario and the Broadcasting Hall of Fame. And she's been, you know, absolutely. She's been lauded. She's been lauded.

Enough, okay. And more on Friday. That's enough, Mer, like, drop it. But I thought it was going to be something smaller. And then I found out, it turned out it was like 250 people. Oh. And it was really a listener event, like half the people there were listeners and they gave away prizes. and there were, I think Marilyn would have given a speech, but she lost her voice.

Oh, I don't know if you, I haven't heard her this morning, but she could not talk on Friday. So what it ended up being was an industry schmooze, which I hadn't been to it a long time. And it was loads of fun. It was less about Maryland than I think I expected it to be and more about running into just about everybody I've ever worked with. But it was all mostly a bell crowd, but you know what this industry is like. a lot of people there that I'd worked with at Rogers and at chorus. But yeah, it was pretty cool seeing a lot of people. Is this a bell sanctioned event?

It was a bell. I think it was a Chum FM event more so than a like a Maryland Dennis event. Okay, because the big question I have for you, your first hard hitting question of the day is, was there an appearance by Roger Ashby? Yes. He was on the stage. Okay. He came out.

Yeah. He'll be on the show Friday is my guess. Oh, really? I get, I'm guessing, right? Because when, yeah, I'm guessing that Roger will make an appearance on Fridays. On her show. On Maryland's final show on Friday? No one, I have no idea what the plan is.

I know this whole week, well, this whole month has been sort of an emotional retrospective for her. Right. And then the bigger, because I think Roger's a slam dunk. In my humble opinion, what do I know? Never worked in Rio. But you know, but you know what, Mike? I think that it's very important that this be about Maryland. It's not about Roger.

He's not going to hog the spotlight. He'll come on to say, maybe just give some perspective. Oh, it's not so bad on the other side or something like that. Like some crack about retirement's not so bad, Marilyn, you know, I'm digging it or whatever. And just for that voice to be a part of this final Maryland. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Have I sold you on it? No, I think it's probably an educated guess. He'd be there on a product. But the question I want, because only because I haven't actually heard from him in a long time since he retired from Easy Rock and Niagara Falls. but will Rick Hodge be a part of any of this? I think Rick has health issues. Yeah. That's too bad.

You know, they're old guys, you know? Yeah. They are. They're like, in their late 70s, I don't know. No, good point.

Ashby's got to be in his 80s. I think so. He's got to be. He was on the air for like 50 years. Yeah. And he's been gone for a long time. He's been gone for a long time. Yeah, do the math.

Okay. So I was thinking, so with Marilyn on her last week on the radio, I was thinking, oh, Marilyn, like, started, and you might know better than I do, but I think she started on that morning show in like 86 maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's 40 years. Yeah. So 40 years, she's been a voice on Toronto Morning

Radio. And there's no one now who comes close to that. Like, do you ever, like, I don't know who else was hanging around that party you were at, but I was wondering if you could do a little nostalgic romp here and maybe remember some guys, as they say in the podcast world and some of those stalwart voices from Toronto Morning Radio that are no one. longer on Toronto morning radio. Okay. Yeah, like, let's, like, throw out a name, uh, like,

throw out a name that might have been on the air. And I took some notes because I know you were at CKFM when it switches to, uh, Mix 99.9.9. But before Humble Howard leaves Humble and Fred to be on the morning show, uh, on the new Mix 99.9. I believe Tom Rivers was the morning. Oh, yeah, yeah. Very briefly.

Tom was there, I think, I don't think he was there. I think it was on maternity leave. Is that possible? Okay. Well, it was like 92 maybe? Yes, that's, there you go. Aiden was born in 93. So I was on, I was on maternity leave.

He was there for a very short period. Because he comes from 680 CFTR, all his radio. And he was like, yeah, they're on KFM doing mornings with Larry Fedorick. Yeah. Isn't it such a small world? Yes. Well, actually, in broadcasting, in Canada, it is a very small world. That's why everybody knows each other.

I mean, yeah, because the guy who replaces Tom Rivers is humble Howard. Yeah. That's right. For like 18 months or something, he leaves, people forget this, because they think, oh, Humble and Fred, 1989 until whenever they left for Mojo Radio in 2000, I think it was 2001, whenever Dean Blendell takes over on 102.1.

But they think, oh, that's an uninterrupted run, but no, because Howard blows, he goes to 99.9.9 for 18 months. With Larry, yeah. Yeah. Yes. So, I'm trying to jog your memory here, but so you have Roger Rick and Marilyn on Shum FM.

Yes. Do you remember the morning show on CHFFM? It was Don and Aaron. Yeah. Yeah. Dawn and Aaron. Do you, I think at that time, 92, you've got Kiss 925, which was country music.

Do you remember the morning show there? No. Maybe it was a guy named Cliff Dumas. Does that name? I can never say the last name, but I didn't listen to the country music. My mom was a big Mugs and Kisses woman. She liked her, Garth Brooks over there. Cliff Dumas, I think, maybe, and maybe Jane Brown. Yeah, could be.

I know. You're jogging the member here. And Jane's, Currently, oh, she is on the radio still. She's on Zoomer. Really? With Andy Wilson, who used to produce the Humble and Fred show. Huh.

Oh, no. He produced the Humble Show on Easy Rock and Boom when it first launched. That's Andy Wilson. But he does a morning show of Jane Brown on Zoomer. Okay. Yeah, I know. And Q107, do you remember who might have been the morning show host in the early 90s? Pete and Geats?

No, later than that. Was it Scroff? Scruff. Yeah. And the Q Morning Zoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, wasn't Bro Jake there at some point? They took turns, but bro, where they would come and go.

Like, it would be Bro, and then it would be Scruff. And I think, like, in 92 or whatever, it's Scruff Connors. But Jesse and Gene took over for Tom Rivers on 680 CFT. Yes, yeah, I remember that. And then some radio history here. But 680 then flips to all news. And then they have to, they let go. Jesse and Jean, who go down to 640.

Okay. Does this ring a bell? It does. I don't know, something I need to point out. First of all, we didn't all hang together, right? So, especially if you were doing mornings, you didn't really hang out with the rest of the morning crew. So a lot of them I never met or met them only instantly. And also, those were my child bear in years. That's true. So I was off for a year with Aden. And then Rona was born in 98. And I actually only took three months off. but no, I wasn't... Also, I need to point out as you move forward in your radio history,

that once they started doing a feature across the country, at one point, I think it was 13 markets. Don't ask me who was doing what, where. If I could remember the people I was talking to every morning, that was a good deal. I sure couldn't tell you who was working elsewhere. Okay, so here, what I'll do is, for fun, I'll just talk about CKFM slash Mix 99.9.9 in 19.

1992. Okay. Okay. So we mentioned this is when Humble Howard leaves Humble and Fred and him and Larry Fedoric do the morning show. Yes. So we talked about this being a small world. Okay. Who do you think is, and if you don't know, that's fine, but who do you think is on the radio from 10 to 3 p.m. 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. after Humble Howard Glassman and Larry Fedorick. Middays. Is it Lee Marshall? Bill Hayes. Oh, Bill. Oh, Bill. Oh, Bill. And Bill Hayes is the brother of John. and Derringer. Yeah. Which is, and Bill Hayes. I've seen Bill in ages. What a nice man.

Yeah. Actually, he came over, a big time Lee fan, and one of the nicest human beings you'd ever want to meet. Yep. After Bill Hayes, it was a chap. I'm sorry if I don't even know some of these people, but Dan Williamson. Yeah, I did afternoons with Dan for a long time. Okay. So that name, I'm not familiar of Dan Williamson, but what can you share with us?

It was legendary. He was the voice of, Lee was the voice, Lee Marshall was CTV and Dan was global, I think. So you heard they were the image voices. So you heard their voices all the time. And Dan and I did afternoons, I think, on and off together for a long time. And he was a good guy. He was

bless him. Dan was the one who said to me, I was just doing traffic. And he said, why don't you, why don't you do a feature? You're funny. And I mean, I sort of thought I was. And he said, why don't you do a feature on famous people to bring us back to the beginning of the conversation?

Right. And we just I decided to call it other people's business. And so it was really Dan who gave me that opportunity. And then, of course, that took off like a bet out of hell and had it a big sponsor, I guess. And anyway, the rest was, well, my history anyway. Well, how did, so remind me again, I know I can go back in the archives and hear previous, previous Maureen Hall of Way visits to the Toronto Mike Stadium studio. But how to, how to the stadium?

Quite there, yeah. We'll see how many people come out for TMLX 22. one. Thursday, if I have to move it to the dome, we'll see if I have to negotiate of Rogers for that one. But so you're on, you're on,

you're doing that on 99.9.9. But how does that end up with you in different markets? Like, is that, is that, Oh, no, that wasn't until, that was chorus, right? It was chorus.

Okay. So I was, I was, from 999 to Q107 and the chorus station. I was, uh, so, I was actually, again, and you need to think about this. This would have been 1999,

I think. And I was also on the, in Montreal. So I had started, live. So I had started doing that just a little bit, right? And then they came and got me, literally. It was a guy Joe Zinobio was the GM at Q. And David Hussar was doing their syndication thing. I can't really remember. But they did, I got a call asking if I would meet them at a coffee time in Vaugh. Whoa. It's just so funny because you know what? Who cares?

But at the time, if you're under contract, I guess you're not supposed to be talking to the enemy. And so you'd have these meetings. Yeah. You'd go for coffee and then like, what are we pulling a heist or something? Well, I can see you're a different boost, but your backs are to each other. Yeah, I know. And you're sort of whispering to each other. I thought it was really hilarious.

But they came and asked me and they said, we'd like you to come over to, it was Wick at the time. Right. And we went on to become chorus. and we'd like to syndicate you in some form. We'd like to take your little showbiz feature that you're doing and put you on our stations across the country. And I was like, hell yeah, I've been waiting for that to happen. Right.

At this point, I also had a television show. I was doing a show on the Comedy Network called The Diss Show. So I had some national exposure. And yeah, it was great. And so, yeah, I resigned. Gary Slate was extremely angry with me, told me I was ungrateful. But I was like, well, you never offered to do any of this stuff for me. So I'm going.

Right. So that's how that happened. And you're in an esteemed list of great broadcasters who he was pissed at at some point or another. It's definitely a Hall of Fame. I think he's forgiven me. Do you, like, now that I feel like the statute of limitations has expired where you could actually tell us like what kind of, like, do you remember what that opening salary was when they said, let's. It was, I wasn't making that much to begin with. I think it was 30,000.

So that's not quite Xerox money. Oh, God, no. And I mean, it wasn't even the money I was making. What had happened? I think I, oh, when I was on with Rob Christie, that's right. I stopped going in full time. I was just doing that feature of the people's business in Montreal and Toronto. And I had Ronan.

I'd had my second at that point. So I wasn't, didn't want to work full time. didn't have the time to work full time. It just kept my hand in doing that. So they said, you could work from home. That was the other thing. They said, we'll set you up with an ISDN line. This is Wick when they came to me and we'll drop you in on all our stations,

adding them one by one because we don't want to overwhelm the situation. And I think, yeah, 30,000 was it. But then as each station came on, I think I got bonused. And also, let's not bury the lead here back then working from home and radio. Like, what a novelty. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's worth a lot of cash right there.

I think that was the clincher, was that I mean, I have a newborn. Right. And I don't have to go into work. Yeah. So, again, ISDN line. So this is way before, like everybody's doing this now, obviously. But we don't even need it now because you can do stuff on Zoom, right? Right.

But when you had that ISDN line, it sounded like you're in the studios, I recall, like an FM band. They put the broadcast line into my house. It was a dedicated broadcast line. And so it was technically, it was far superior to what we have, you know, with no glitches. It was, if you're going to get me to start talking about digital or analog. No, no, it's okay. Our bottom line is, we're talking, what are we talking? Early 2000s?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like 1999, 2000. Yeah, so for its time, the audio quality was fantastic. It was fantastic. Like you're in the studio, except you're working from home, morning. Yeah, yeah. Trendsetter. The little setup, kind of like yours, except mine was on the top floor.

Okay. I was on the top floor until baby number three was born and I got booted. It became the baby's room. And I've been down here ever since. You and a lot of people now. Now this is absolutely common. People broadcasting or podcasting. But I was definitely one of the first.

Yeah, absolutely. And then this is kind of, I'm going to play it. This is, so we know the story. I don't want to like, I don't want to, I feel it be. cruel and unusual punishment to like let's walk through. Oh God. Yeah. We're not doing that.

We're not doing that. I might ask you a couple of questions about the Jennifer Holiday. Valentine. Sorry. Jennifer Valdeh holiday is a singer. I just did toast with Bob Bluette and Rob Pruse. And she's, you're gonna love me?

Yeah. I won't do it. But she hits those notes and I was just thinking about her because we were playing some Martha Wash. No, you're thinking of Jennifer Hudson, aren't you? No, I'm thinking of Jennifer Holiday. Okay. Like, this is like, you're gonna love me.

This is a big. voiced singer from like the late 70s, early 80s. Okay, Jennifer Valentine, so we'll talk about that human rights tribunal. But I want to ask you something. I think I've been waiting for like enough time to go by that we'll get an honest Maureen Holloway answer here, okay? So I'm going to play a little promo from you on CHFI. Okay, then I'm going to ask you a question and see how you answer it.

You ready? Yeah. You know, traffic in this city will not be a problem, but we can just invent time travel. Oh, definitely. Or we could live here at work. We could move in together. We could be roommates. Where are you going with this?

No, no, no. Time travel. It's a better idea. You're hurting my feelings. Oh, it's for the best. You'll thank me. Time travel. Just enough Bieber to get this blocked on YouTube.

Okay, perfect. Okay, but this is a promo because we mentioned you took over for Aaron Davis. So she moved at West and you were brought in, I guess, to be the new morning show host on C.HFI with Darren V. Lam. And there's a promo for it. a lot of noise. Darren B. Lamb was also the guy who replaced Rick Hodge. Yes. With the aforementioned Maryland.

See how small a world it is? Quite a track record. He's worked with Marilyn, Aaron, and me. Right. The three of the great morning radio hosts we have in the history of this city in radio. But I kind of need to know what you can tell me. But one of the most common, frequent questions I get as a radio insider. Whatever happened to Darren?

What the fuck happened to Darren B. Lam? Oh, I wish I knew. I do know. I do know. He left. He left in a disgraceful manner, highly unprofessional and whiny and cowardly and kind of that defines him. It was during COVID and we were working from home, both of us, because, but everybody else in the morning show was in the studio in MacArthur, Gordrenny, Christine Cardoso, we're all in there. And they'd put up all sorts of barriers as we did. We had all sorts of plastic and all that. And this is kind of gets a little nepotistic here. So they, Rogers put in all these protocols to deal with COVID. And actually my husband, who was working for Rogers at the time in real estate and human resources,

he was also part of implementing all the safety constraints. And I said to my, to say to him, John, I want to go back. If, if you think it's safe, and he's like, you know, babe, it's my job to make it safe. But I said, if you think it's safe, I want to go back in the studio because I think, we're really missing something. There's a bit of a delay. And I want to be back with the team. And but Darren didn't want to go.

And so we were all like, okay. He wasn't the easiest person to work with, to begin with. Right. And anyway, I was in the midst of making plans to go back after Christmas and he was going off to BC with his husband to look. They were building a house out there. And he never came back. He never came back from vacation and the company refused to tell us what was going on,

but they kept saying he's coming back. He had written us an email saying he wishes us well. But, and I was saying to management, he's gone. What are you talking about? He's gone. And they were like, no, no, no, no, he's coming back. We're just working some things out. And then we had a new program director.

Wendy Def had left. and there's just a whole lot of stuff going on. We had a new guy who came in who had no idea what he was doing. No idea how to deal with people who had a lot. I mean, he came from a smaller market. He had no idea how to deal with talent. You can tell right now I'm already getting exasperated, thinking about it. So they said to me, well, he said between us,

I don't think Darren's coming back. Who would you like to work with? And I, you know, it's funny because I actually suggested Gerdib al-a-Walli. Right. Gertif and I were playing golf. at that time or were and but then a couple of weeks

go by and they stopped talking to me and I'm like well what are we doing about the show and they brought Mike Cooper in as an interim host and Mike and I got on like a house

on fire because he's a consummate professional he's like okay his opinions are a little dated but the five of us Mike and Gord and Ian who had all worked together before and Christine Mike and Christina worked together we were like

island of misfit toys, but man, did we get on. And without any guidance, we did some really great radio and we were all together in the studio in the middle of COVID with no support. In fact, they insisted when we were doing, we were identifying the station, we'd say, I'd have to say, oh, it's Darren and Moe with Maureen Holloway and Mike Cooper. Like that was insulting to the listener. And the listeners were all like, where's Darren? Where's Darren? Right. And we weren't allowed to say a word. And this went on, my contract was coming up and I thought, well, what's the writing on the wall here? And I'm not stupid. Right. I was told that they had, it's not that they weren't going to renew my option. They just hadn't picked it up. And Julie Adam, who was running

everything at the time, said, of course they, of course we're renewing. And then, and they're not. I got screwed. I got screwed. But you know what? was money. It was money. They were paying me a lot of money and my contract was up and they decided why throw, you know, I'm not a spring chicken, although I don't know what difference that would make.

Joy B. R is 82. And they did not renew my contract and I left. And what happened to Darren? Who the fuck knows? Who the fuck cares? I can't think of a, like another example of this where somebody just is on a big...

Just takes off? I talk to Bob Willett every month. he comes in, he's on indie 88, and they started adding songs like Ed Shearin and stuff. They brought it into playlists. Indy sounds very different now. Right, because they want a piece of the CHFI and Chum, those two stations, and boom, those three stations, I suppose, two Jeffries, who we'll get to later. But they want a piece of that pie because that's where all the ears are.

Like, CHFI morning show is a juggernaut from, you know, you talk about Don Danard and Aaron Davis. You know what, nothing against Poochangerdee, but it is not the juggernaut it was. It's not, I mean, they don't even tell them, but I think they're six or seventh in the ratings, even though the station is number one. So they underperform. So the station's doing better than the morning show. Which is nothing, listen, they're talented people. They're television people. Right. CP 24 breakfast. Yeah, they've made the adjustment to radio, but, you know, I mean, it was nothing like Aaron and Mike were amazing.

Right. And even Darren and I, when I came over, we were at number one. Right. I don't think they've had that same success, but I don't want to sound like sour grapes. No, I mean, I don't know Pooja very well at all, but Gurdip and I, just recently as a week ago, we had a pretty lengthy chat.

Oh, he's a sweetie. They're both. They're both talented people. Working for CHI wasn't that easy either because for me, it was like, be less of a personality. You know what I mean? Try it, be pleasant. Don't be offensive.

Yeah, tone it down. Yeah, tone it down. Okay, can you imagine? Okay, tone it down, Maureen. Okay, we have too much Maureen all the way. Wow. Okay, now, I believe, am I right? Blair Bartram is the gentleman who is working with Pooja and Gerdip on that morning show.

After I left. After you left, right, with Pooja and Gerdip here. And he's the same guy who was at Q for those. He was a program director there. That's interesting. Yeah, sure is. Let that sit there for a minute. Is there a question?

No, sometimes I've learned silence can be beautiful, Marine. I used to think it's a mistake if I have silence. Sometimes I let the silence just sit there. Yeah, when people's sit there. when people try to fill it. And then you never know what comes out when they're filling in that silence. That's the secret.

So Darren B. Lam, I kind of had a sense of all this because Cooper came over and said something similar. But it is, I can't think of a parallel, like another example in Toronto Radio. It's disgraceful. That's where I was going. So CHIFI Morning Show was a juggernaut, whether it is now, today or not,

we look at the ratings and decipher yourself. But it was a juggernaut. And to just walk away is bizarre. Yeah. And he hasn't been heard from in public life since, right? No, he hasn't. he was really resentful of me. And, you know, I'm not,

it's not like I'm unaccustomed to that in almost 40 years in radio myself and working with various, you know, male egos. But Darren really wanted to be the star of the show. Once Aaron left, he didn't get along with Roger and Maryland. It's not like he didn't get along. He, you know, he was difficult. And then Aaron, quite frankly, couldn't stand him. And so when I came, I think he really,

really thought this was an opportunity for him to shine and I would help make him shine. And that's actually what I do. I help make people shine. Right. But in his case, he was very jealous and resentful of the attention that I was getting. And yeah, he didn't like me at all. And I do remember now Aaron Davis telling me something similar. And then I often wonder in a parallel universe, you can't answer this question.

So don't even try. But like if it's still Mike Cooper and Aaron Davis, does Aaron move out west? She would have stayed if it was Mike. She left largely. I mean, she won't tell you this, but I will. I think she did tell me this. Yeah.

It had, after her daughter died and everything started falling apart, she just, she could not sit across and look at Darren whom she quite frankly despised and thought, you know what, I got to get out of here. But nobody told me. Maryland didn't tell me. Aaron didn't. Nobody told me what it was going to be like because I guess they thought, hey, Mo. you'll figure it out

or not. Maybe you'll be the magic. But you can relate to this, right? Because other women would work with John Derringer after your experience. And you didn't pull them aside and say, here's what's going to happen. No, no, no.

And that's a very adroit segue right there. You use that word on Humble and Fred and I had to Google it. Yeah. It's very clever, well done. This makes you seem very smart. Are you sure you didn't go to McGill? I went to university. They don't teach you those.

words at Carleton University. No, but they do it. You have tea and they do it. I've a couple of degrees, but I read a lot. Anyway, it doesn't matter. You got multiple degrees. Okay. Binders and binders of degrees. Okay, so we got the Darren B. Lamb story there. And I know you don't want to spend all day with me. You want to get to those World Cup matches. I'm sure. I heard it, last I checked, by the way, Messi had scored and it was 1-0 for Argentina. Of course he did. I know. But I'm upset because I want Jonathan David to get whatever the award is for most goals in the World Cup. I don't know what they call it. But they were tired. They were

tied with three and now Messi's got a four. Oh, you can't have everybody. Okay, I'll be happy. You know, we finally won a match. I think that we'll start with that and we'll go from there. Okay. So are you surprised, Maureen Holloway, that John Garbut and Ryan Parker are still part of the Q107 morning show?

That's a... You know, I'm an award-winning podcaster, Maureen. You get good questions down here. You seem so surprised. You could be a prosecutor. No, no, it's not. It's just, it's like we're just going to go right there, right? Well, yeah, I'll go less on the Daringer.

Well, they still have to testify at the Human Rights Tribunal, not that that should affect their job, but it may. So just a little background. Yeah, please. Jennifer Valentine's case against Chorus is not against John Darringer. It's against the fact, and I'm going to say the fact that Chorus knew about Daringer's behavior towards mostly women in that studio and kept it hidden and protected him for years and years and years.

And so she launched this suit, which began last October. And I've given testimony, obviously to support Jennifer. I think it might be important to say that I'm on that side. But last, what was it, April, they called, the defense called their first witness. Corus's defense, and their first witness was John Derren. which was astonishing. It was two days of testimony. Once you've given testimony in a tribunal,

you are privy to it. You can show up, you can watch, you can watch online, but if you are a witness forthcoming like Ryan and John are, you're not supposed to. I think people do cheat, but you're not supposed to.

Because CBC literally publishes articles about what happened with quotes and stuff. Are they not supposed to read those articles? Corus asked for a publication ban, which is one of the reasons why there was a continuance, this is why it's taking so long. Okay. Without getting into all the legal courses, basically.

That's for Lauren Honnickman. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can ask him about that, but basically, courses, has been responsible for stringing this out. And, you know, this is on Jennifer's dime, too, give you an idea. Jennifer's paying for her legal fees. However, I believe now that because they have such a strong case, the lawyers are working for her pro bono with the idea that they will recoup some

of their fees if and when damages are paid to Jennifer. Contingency, whatever that's called. So that's what's happening. Now, so yeah, I was in the courtroom when Tor and Territer. Not the first day. I watched that one online. The second one, I went in for the cross-examination because, you know, I brought popcorn and champagne.

And as far as I know, Garbert and Ryan and all these people have not and should not be privy to any of that testimony because they are going. going on the witness stand in August. In August. If they had been there, and I got to be careful here, because I don't want to screw up anybody's case here, but I think you and I know, and anybody who's followed the case,

that Derringer went in unapologetic through absolutely everyone under the bus, including his former henchman, Ryan and John, and his former program director Blair, absolutely took huge bites out of Jennifer in terms of her competence and her ability. I got off relatively easy. I mean, he said I was chronically late and moody.

Well, maybe the moody part is true, but never chronically late. It was in. But he also said, you know, he had more chemistry with me than he did with anybody else and that I had huge talent. And, you know, so it was just weird. It's like watching your ex-husband up there. Right. So reverting, giving you all this, we're going back to the,

the question, do Garbet and Ryan? Like, they're literally promoted. They're two-thirds of the morning show on Q107 today. And actually, I don't listen. I don't listen to any radio, but when I do, it seems that Ryan is very much in the driver's seat on that show, which doesn't surprise me because, you know, he's learned from John.

Do they, did they deserve to keep their jobs? And do they deserve to keep them going forward? Like, are you surprised that they still comprise? the morning show in Q and 07. Well, I don't think there was, there had to be just cause to let them go, right? And they were victimized too. So I think chorus was in a very uncomfortable decision.

What do we had to make an uncomfortable decision? What do we do? Do we let them go? Well, for what cause? I don't think you need cause anymore. Oh, yeah, you do. Well, no, I don't think so. I honestly don't think so.

I think you can just let them go. They're salaried. Right. They could package them out. Yeah, you just have to sever fairly. Like, and I was talking to, I won't name the company, but a company close to the show about when they let people go. And even if they catch somebody stealing,

they still don't do it with cause. They just sever them fairly because it's not worth the legal hassle and stuff. Like, so anybody can be fired any time for no reason as long as you sever fairly. Okay. So, the question, I guess the question to wrap up that question is that they, are on the air today. And I'm wondering if you're surprised at all. That chorus, you know,

they went away for a bit with pay. But now they're back as part of the morning show with Shauna Waylon. Like, are you surprised? Maureen Holloway. No, nothing surprises you anymore. No. I don't, yeah, you're not asking me

if I think they deserve to have their jobs. I mean, I mean, you can answer that if you like, but my specific curiosity was whether you're surprised. Because I got a lot of notes from people who are like, I'm surprised not only that they weren't fired, but that they're still part of the morning show. You know what it comes down to, Mike?

It's talent. And are they really good? I mean, you know, it's like a joke could be offensive, but if it's funny, all bets are off. Right. And in this case, it's like, if that's a fantastic morning show and I don't listen

and the ratings are not as bad as some stations, but they're also not as good as others. Right. Then, you know what? I guess that trump's it. Oh, I hate using that word. I know. You know what? I love Yucer. It's one of my favorite games. I've been playing it since I can remember.

And I hate the fact that the word Trump has this connotation. I know. I know. That's such a key part of the game. It'll never go away either. But yeah, if I think if it's a really good morning show and people enjoy it, then that was the right decision to keep them. But I'm not, whether I think it is or not, I'm going to, I'm going to withhold my opinion on that because I don't think it's informed. That's fair. Now, I don't want to, like, I don't want to upset you and I don't want to trigger you. No, I don't want to, like, to, I know that I've heard you on Humble and Frick. I don't want to, you know, talk about all the abuse you might have suffered with John Derringer. But just because you said you were in the courtroom when John Derringer testified.

Yeah. On behalf of Chorus in this human rights tribunal. Yeah. I'm wondering, like, like, how traumatizing is that to be in the room and hear him kind of play it off? Like, no, I was great at what I did at all costs. I would do it all again the same way. I'm quoting him. I would do it again the same way.

Nobody was good enough. I was totally right and behaving the way I did. Were you surprised he didn't do it? I kind of thought he might do, which is come in and say he's sorry and he... I kind of hoped he would. I hope I was... I'm not the only one.

I think we were all hoping for a little contrition. Like, how surprised were you by that when he just leaned in? He leaned in like a villain. in a super here. We were all surprised. Except I, you know, I can't speak for her, but the prosecutor, she's not even that. That's Jennifer's lawyer. She wasn't surprised. She basically suspected he was going to dig his own hole, which he did.

He probably got in the car with his wife who was there and drove home saying, I sure told them. Right. I told them what was, I set them straight. But in fact, what he did was reveal himself to be the monster that he is to every And I don't even think he knows that. So, geez, it sounds like August is when more witnesses. How long does this last?

It goes to October. Oh, God. So, yeah, they'll have a week. And it's all because of scheduling, right? So they have a week in October. And then, and not only will Ryan and Garbitt take the stand, but all, but the former CEOs, I mean, this is, management comes. Management comes to.

Do you know of Blair Bartram's on that list? He already went. Oh, he went already. That was really interesting because he was a different. He was actually a witness for our side. Wow. And I found that kind of curious. And I did ask, Lisa, I said,

you would think that being middle management, he would have been a witness for chorus. And I think they basically approached him to preempt that from happening. But I think having seen Blair's testimony, too, I think, you know, without throwing him under a bus, I think he made it clear that he knew what was going on but didn't do anything about it. I think there's a lot of people in that category. Yep.

To save, you know, to save your own job or your own ask. And that's totally understandable. But I think his testimony showed that he perhaps did not impress upon senior management just how bad things were. All right. So August is a return to the courtroom. We'll see what transpires here. and human rights tribunal from Jennifer Valentine. Yeah, good times.

She's going to win. The question is how much, and will, of course, still be financially viable because that will be pretty low on the list of creditors that they're going to have to deal with if they can't get their financial act together. All right, so here's my award-winning segue as we leave the Human Rights Tribunal here

from Jennifer Valentine, and I ask you a question about your health, Maureen Holloway, but I read in the CBC article about one of these when John Derringer was on the stand there in the courtroom, it said, radio host John Derringer admitted to telling a joke on air that

on Q107, that breast reduction surgery is the quote, cruelest surgery a woman could do, end quote, because of what it denies a man. He acknowledged telling the joke while his former co-host, Maureen Holloway, was recovering from a mastectomy

due to breast cancer. So I'm just telling you, I read this and my jaw hit the fucking floor. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And he didn't regret that either. It's just, no, no, he didn't. It's all, like Lisa said, Ann Maureen had breast cancer at the time. He goes, yep.

Like, he doubled down. That's a fucking horrible joke. It's like terrible. I shouldn't be laughing. No, I mean, it's the incredulity of it. Like, supervillain horrible. regardless of whether you are recovering from a mastectomy or not. That's a fucking awful joke.

Anybody. Breast reduction surgery is the cruelest surgery a woman could do because of what it denies a man. Yeah. Yeah. I have no words. You have no words. I had no words at the time. I had no words in the courtroom.

I have no words now. But you have a good sense of humor. I do. So at the time, did you find it curious that he would make that joke of you sitting? I was actually not. in the room. I was, I think, getting coffee. But I also know him well enough to know that he would have told the joke if I was in the room. Right. He'd do it again. He would do it again. I just wasn't in front of a mic to show my my outrage, which I would have. But I mean, you know, it's not like I

knew how to handle him, but, but yeah, he was, that was just the most outrageous thing that you could possibly say. So you, the reaction sometimes is, you know, laughter does, is a form of showing surprise, right? But when he makes a joke like that on Q107 does Q107 slash course, do they receive emails and phone messages from people? Oh, my wife is, you know, has breast cancer or my mom died from breast cancer. Like, it's just not funny. I have a dark sense of humor. Honestly, I can go all day with Brad Jones. I have a dark sense of humor. I have a dark sense of humor too, but I'm sorry. I apologize to everybody out there who finds that offensive. I do too. And I have, I had, and then I had breast cancer again this year. Well, I was going to ask you because I read your substack.

Yeah, I'm fine. But no, no, he was, he was something else. That's all I can say. And, you know, part of that, that I don't give a shit attitude was partially why he was so good at what he did. He was fearless, I suppose. Yeah, I suppose. Hey, guy's not working now, is he? Well, do you think he'll ever work again? No. No. Do you think there's a podcast in his future? Well, there's nothing to stop him, I guess, right? I don't think you'll ever be hired by anybody, but would people listen to his podcast? Yes, sadly, and I hope I'm not telling Tales out of school here,

but Jennifer told me recently that some guy accosted her on the street and said, you wrecked a good man's life and started yelling at her, and she was... See, Jennifer's one of the nicest people in the world, and she's a real people-pleaser. Even with this dickhead, she was trying to tell him that he just didn't understand. And he ended up haranguing her until she got into her car and drove off.

But sadly, there are still, there's still a sort of Derringer army out there. Yeah. Well, there's Trumpers out there. Yeah. Yeah. I know. The world is full of awful people. I have stopped.

I used to overestimate people. And now I just try to underestimate everybody. Like, and I can't remember who's over here recently. where I said, I think historically, I gave people too much credit. Like, oh, they're too smart to whatever. They'll figure it out. I don't think people are nearly as smart as I thought they were. I don't either, but I still try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But in this case, a lot of people have shown Jennifer and me, but this is Jennifer's fight and I'm only there to support her. Right. They have shown her tremendous support, but there is a shocking amount of people out there who are filled with hate and think that she's just another unhappy bitch who's trying to ruin some guy's life. Wow. Okay.

So we're going to turn, don't worry. We're going to turn the channels on our way out here. Again, August, we can read more on CBC. But apparently, I was told somebody said, you can get the Zoom link and actually hear this live. Anybody can. So what you do, and I'll tell you how. Yeah.

I know, it's your civic duty. It's part from great tea. It's like jury duty. Right. So you go to the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal website. just look it up. Google it. And they'll have a list of all the forthcoming trials.

And this one is Valentine versus Chorus. Right. And you'll see the dates in August. And again, in October, I think they do the full calendar year. And you click on that and it'll take you to the registrar. And you will ask, you don't even have to have, if my best friend who lives in London, England, watch the whole thing.

Right. You don't have to have an IP address from Canada. She's a university professor or teaches design. She is like no reason professional or other. but you just request and say I would like an access code link to this and they will give it to you. Right. Okay. You're also welcome to go and watch it in person.

It's a public event. Right. Right. Shocking, eh? Are you going to attend anymore? Like in support of Jennifer? I was there for, so I was going to be there the first day with Derringer and I was actually on my way to the courtroom and I was at the doctors and I got on the car and I looked, I turned on the link to see where. they were at because I didn't want to walk in in the middle.

And Derrick was talking to me and I sat in the car. He was talking about me. About you. And I sat in the car and I was so traumatized by what he was saying. I couldn't go in. Right. And that night, that was the first day that he was on. At that night, my husband came home and I said, I couldn't go in.

And he said, Mo, you have to go in for Jennifer tomorrow. You have to. You've been in her corner all this way. She needs you there. And I was like, absolutely, you're right. So the next day I went in and I thought, I'll go in early. because I don't know why I'll go in early because I don't want to run into him or whatever. Of course, I walk in and he and his wife are sitting right outside the courtroom.

Nobody else is around. And you just smile and say hello. Hi, hi, you two. Awkward. I think what will happen in August, if Jennifer really wants me to be in there, but I think that I think she's okay. You know, she's got a support team. She's got some wonderful friends who've showed up every day of the trial. Right.

which, you know, is a credit to her. I will definitely watch on Zoom. I hope to be up at the cottage in August. What I do want to be there for are the closing remarks in October. I want to hear Lisa sum it up. Lisa Stam is the lawyer. I also want to hear with Corriss's defense

has to say for itself. Okay, so stay tuned on that front. Really quick hits here. I want to thank Recyclemyelectronics.ca for supporting this show. And Maureen, you know if you have old cables, old electronics, old devices. You don't throw that in the garbage because those chemicals end up in our landfill. Go to recycle myelectronics.ca.

Put in your postal code and find out where you can drop it all off to be properly recycled. And if you're not at the cottage this summer and you're looking for some fun to do typically on a Sunday afternoon, but other times as well. The Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball at Christy Pits is amazing. What value, what fun. No ticket required, Maureen. What can you say? that's not something you can say very often.

But grab a beer, grab a hot dog, and fill the hill and enjoy some quality baseball at Christy Pits. It's amazing. So Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, there is a, I know you're going to want some reading this summer at the cottage. I can see you diving into the history of Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball. And you'll learn all about the Butler Brothers from East York and more. That's yours to take home with you, Maure. You get swag on this show. Thank you.

You didn't know all that swag. going to get. Okay. And last but not least, I suppose I said that already. I want to thank Nick Iini's, whose podcast is called Building Toronto Skyline, and we have a new recording next Friday, and he stepped up to help fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike.

And I appreciate it. Keep this going. Nick, I hope to see you Thursday at TMLX22. I hope everybody comes out. Okay, so we talked about Maryland's last week. End of an era. The old guard is gone. Who do you, like, who is the current, like, longest serving Toronto morning show. I'm talking morning show here.

Host. I have a thought, but what are your thoughts? Oh, I think Rosamoka are now sort of the legacy, I guess, show. I mean, John Moore, but that's talk. Although John... But it counts. And I would say, I did, like, dug into it thinking, who came first?

Roz and Moka or your dear friend John Moore? I think John was doing afternoons. Right. I think on the morning show, I think Rosamoka get in mere weeks before John Moore. Like, I think they're really close, but I think Rosamoka get in first. You know, they're now the stars of Nirvana, the band, the show of the movie. I love that. I love that movie.

So do why. I loved it so much. I did a whole episode about it. It's so good. It is so good. And there's Rosamoka all over that show. And John Moore is your dear friend. I know this because he was on his way here for an episode.

And he said, apparently you said kind words about this program and he was excited to come over. And then he told me, his program director told him he's not allowed to come over. It's bullshit. Ask him again. That's just so much. bullshit. Like, come on. Get over yourselves, Bell. I think he'd like to be on the show. I would like to have him on. Well, ask him again. I mean, I don't think that PD is there anymore. And if they actually... No, he's at 640. Okay. We're talking Mike Ben Dixon. If anybody's got a

problem with him, I mean, John is a very good rule follower, I must say, despite, you know, he's not a rebel. He's not a rebel. He's not a wild card. But ask him again. I think he'd love to be on the show. Okay. I did get a phoneer, if you were. I think it was a Zoom. But we did a remote. where he talked about somebody who had passed away, who was a regular contributor to CFRB 1010 over there. But I am going to ask him again and see if John Moore can finally make his Toronto make debut because every time we chat,

John and I, we talk like we're old buds. Yeah. I like the guy. He said you're impossibly good-looking. This was just on Friday. Oh, I said the same thing to him. I said, no, he's possibly good-looking, John. Seriously.

John said that about me. He did. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. Honestly. I am due for a haircut, Maureen Holloway. And it's happening Thursday. My barber moved to New Brunswick. Well, that's a long way to go.

He's not just my hair. He's not flying back for just me, okay, Maureen, but he is flying back to cut people's hair because he hasn't been here in a few months. And I'm going to get it done before TMLX22. So everybody who comes out can see my new do. Maureen, are you going to be there at TMLX 22? No.

Hayref on the live stream is like, get Mo. And I was thinking, I'm not going to waste my energy and time. But thanks for asking. Trying to get Mo to show up at TMLX 22. But honestly, what a pleasure it is. I'm glad you said you're fine health-wise. I am. I'm absolutely fine.

You look good, you sound good. And we'll have to do this again at some point. Who knows what the future holds. And get me Marilyn Dennis on Toronto Mike. I'll work on John Moore. Get me Marilyn Dennis. Her people told me she was too busy, but I feel like she'll have some free time coming up.

She might. Okay, I'll work on it. And that brings us to the end of our 1,922nd show. Go to Toronto Mike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs and get your ass to Great Lakes Brewery on Thursday. We're there six to nine. Palma pasta will feed everybody. Did I tell you, Palma sent a lasagna for you, Mo?

Yeah. Oh, good. I can't remember. I'm excited. It should be. It's delicious. But they're going to feed us all on Thursday night. So come hungry.

And your first beer, your first pour of fresh craft beer from Great Lakes is on the house. So that's a beer and pasta. That's pretty damn good. So get your ass to TMLX22 on Thursday. Much love to Great Lakes Brewery, who have been on board of this podcast for over 10 years. Is that amazing? It's 10 years.

And Palma Pasta, who've been on board almost that long. And Toronto Maple Leafs Baseball, Nick Ieini's Recycle My Electronics.C.A. and, of course, Ridley Funeral Home, who have given Maureen Hallaway. A tape measure. A tape measure. It's just weird.

See you all Wednesday. Here, Mo, I'm a professional. I'm going to find out who. Oh, Rocco Rossi makes his Toronto mic debut. He ran for mayor the year that Rob Ford won 2010. But Rocco Rossi is going to drop by. We'll talk to him on Wednesday. See you all.

Then.