Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Michael Barclay: Toronto Mike'd #1047

Episode Date: May 9, 2022

Mike chats with Michael Barclay about his new book Hearts on Fire: Six Years that Changed Canadian Music 2000–2005. And yes, jams are kicked out. Toronto Mike'd is proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Palma Pasta, Canna Cabana, StickerYou, Ridley Funeral Home and Duer Pants and Shorts.

Welcome to episode 1047 of Toronto Mic'd. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery who believes in supporting communities, good times, and brewing amazing beer. Order online for free local home delivery in the GTA. StickerU.com. Create custom stickers, labels, tattoos, and decals for your home and your business.

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Learn more at cannacabana.com. Joining me this week, making his third Toronto Mic'd appearance, is Michael Barclay. Welcome back, Michael. Nice to be here, sir. Am I on video? I just realized there's a camera.

There's a pirate stream. We're not recording the video, but you're theoretically, some FOTMs might be seeing you on video. But I actually checked in on it. The sun, again, my apologies if the sun is in your eyes. The sun is hitting the camera, so you look, it's kind of mysterious, sort of like, what was the Nirvana video in Blue? No, Come As You Are, where it's got that like white gray scale effect.

So, you know, people will barely recognize you, but I recognize you and you look great. Thank you. Does my Catholic upbringing come through? I had a Catholic upbringing. Let's compare. How many sacraments did you collect before you gave up? How many did you get there?

Quick story. My grade 12 religion teacher just got in touch with me because he saw an article about the book in the Toronto Star. Wow. Yeah. Okay. And that's, okay. And I told him it was, I explained to him which of his lessons led me to leave the church.

That's funny. What high school did you go to? Pope John Paul II in Scarborough, Ontario. That was like a recently named high school then. That's like a recent guy. When I was in grade nine, there was only grade 10 above us. So there's only like 100 students and change. We were all in portables while the building was being constructed.

Exciting. And what neck of the woods are we in here? Military Trail and Morningside. Okay. Does that mean anything to you? That's Scarborough. Yeah. See, that's, yeah, I'm a little less comfortable in Scarborough, but I know.

Scarborough, Mike. You have to be all of Toronto, Mike. Not just West End Toronto, Mike. I'm trying to get there, man. I did bike through Rouge Park once, which was like my big foray into Scarborough. And it was beautiful. Rouge Park was beautiful. Colonel Danforth, Morningside, Island Creek. Yeah. Lots of good stuff going on there. Okay. So we're in the backyard. bro and it was beautiful rouge park was beautiful colonel danforth morningside island creek yeah

lots of good stuff going on okay so uh we're in the backyard so uh fotm should know this is the second backyard episode of 2022 but dude let's take a moment just to let the people know how beautiful a day we've got here this is uh yesterday mother's day was the first amazing spring day. And today is a close follow-up. I'm in shorts. Yeah. I was shocked, but it's okay. You look good. Do you think these are good-looking shorts? Yeah. You're the first person I've known to wear shorts this year. I've seen a lot of people who wore them way too

early, and it was offensive. But no, you look good. Thank you. These are from Dewar. So this is a shameless promotion that I'm wearing the world's most comfortable shorts, and they're from Dewar. And anyone can go from Dewar. So this is a shameless promotion that I'm wearing the world's most comfortable shorts and they're from Dewar. And anyone can go to Dewar.ca and use the promo code TMDS and save 15%. But if you're like me, you're not really big on buying clothes online. There's a retail store in Toronto. You can go to the Dewar retail store and you can still save 15% with the promo code TMDS.

Don't try, Dewar. Dewar. D-U-E-R. Oh, D-U, okay. Yeah, D-U-E-R, world's most comfortable pants. But it's very sunny out here, which means I can barely see my control panel here. So excuse me if I make rare mistakes,

but we're in the backyard now. This coming Friday, which is May 13th friday the 13th tmlx9 is taking place at 6 p.m in marie curtis park hit me up like mike at toronto mike.com or dm me on twitter at toronto mike and i will send you the map it's like a speaking of the pirate stream we're on right now at live.torontomike.com like i'll send you a pirate map, like where we are at 6 p.m. Friday. People should come out and say hi. TMX9. You'll be under the skull and crossbones

on that pirate map? Is that where they'll find you? Listen, there's room for you at TMDS, Michael. You've got it going on. Now, I want to get into it because I got jams, and I just love this era of music in this great country of ours. But your new book, Michael, is called

Hearts on Fire, Six Years That Changed Canadian Music, 2000 to 2005. And this, you describe it as a spiritual successor to Have Not Been the Same, the Canrock Renaissance, 1985 to 1995. So my question off the top is, where's those missing five years? I did the math. You end one at 95 and you start the next at 2000. What happened between 95 and 2000? I think, who are your regulars?

Cam Gordon and... Stu Stone? Yeah, I think they've got this covered. Have you ever tuned in, straight up, you've ever tuned in to a Pandemic Friday slash Toast episode of Toronto Mic? I have not. You'd love it. Okay. And you're buddies with Cam, right?

I don't know Cam. You don't know Cam. And I generally hate the 90s. Would I still like it? No. Okay. So what? You just, because it was not your decade, you just skipped five years.

Well, I mean, truth be told, this book could have started in 95. There are many origin stories during those years, like Sarah Harmer's, Joel Plaskett's, Sadie's, Godspeed, You Black Emperor. A lot of these things have tentacles back pre-2000, but 2000 is when all the artists I wanted to talk about really made their mark, either put out an amazing debut record or the debut solo record or like their most defining work and that got international attention. Now I'll let the listenership know that the 10 jams are chosen by me, but they're based on, you know, artists that you cover in your fine book, which I will say this. I don't bullshit against, if there's a guest on

and I didn't care for the book, I don't go, oh, I loved your book. You can check the records, check the receipts. Hearts on Fire, six years that changed Canadian music,

2000 to 2005, is fantastic. And then as you listen to the songs, because on your website, where's the address that people want to hear, like playlists?

michaelbarkley.ca slash playlists. Very easy. You can't screw that up let's go to dot com that's another michael so go to dot ca and i'm listening to the jams and i'm remembering that damn good songs come out of this country 2000 to 2005 like what a great era for music in this country i agree so we're gonna give them so i pick the songs based on your. So on that page, I have, I made a playlist for every chapter, right?

Which is, is not only the artists in each chapter, but also their influences or contextual things that come up. But I also made kind of a top 40 list. So if you're just interested in maybe checking out the book, or you just want to hear all the greatest hits, I picked like one track from each of the main artists. And I'm assuming that's what you drew from,

from that top 40? Yeah. Or did you go off script? I did a little off script just for a few artists, but mainly I tried to skip. I'm excited to hear it. You're excited. You have no idea.

So Michael has no idea what I'm going to play. I should have told him it's just 10 Nickelback songs, but no, we're going to have a good time here. I couldn't name 10 Nickelbacks. Wow. Actually, I can't name 10,

but I can probably name six or seven to be honest. Okay. So. I meant three. I might score three. Actually, I can't name 10, but I can probably name six or seven, to be honest. I meant three. I meant score three. Well, I probably did pick one song you could name for Nickelback. But just because we're going to dance through these five. If you want the deep dive, of course, buy the damn book. Like, how do you want people to buy this? Do you have a preference? I was going to do home deliveries before I got COVID earlier this month. But I'm still up for that in the central downtown area,

but no, it's available from ECW press. It should be in fine bookstores. If you go to the ECW press page, there's a little shop local button. You can find your local independent bookstore. If that seems like too much work, you can find it anywhere you want.

It's widely available. Just find it and read it and enjoy it because a great, great. And by the way, I did, like if people are going to be like, where's the Barkley like talk about like his great career and he's been all around and we've

got so much to discuss. Where's that talk? So I'm just going to let people know that as I said off the top, this is Michael's third visit and actual visits. I'll point out, we don't zoom you and I, we're not zoomers.

Especially not now i i was gonna meet a friend the other day he's like oh can we just jump on a call i'm like no right no i want humans humans and as you reminded me you were uh one of the very first backyard guests in fact did i have you down there yep i think okay so this is as you know it's all fluid it's all evolving i learned things today even i learned that if it's really sunny like this, I got to put something up because the sun messes up a lot of the, messes up the cameras.

It messes up my view of my notes. It messes up my, I don't know what song I'm playing. I can barely see my guest. But you were one of the very first pandemic backyard guests. In fact, you're still the only guest to bring his own microphone. That's right. Because we didn't know. Like, you know, it was a to bring his own microphone. That's right. Because we didn't know.

It was a scary time. So much we didn't know. And we were playing Toronto Jams for Canada Day, I believe. Yes. Okay. So that is episode 677. And I was joined by music journalist Michael Barclay. And we kicked out 10 Toronto Jams.

And we spent an hour and 40 minutes together which uh was fantastic and I mean some of those songs you you kind of reintroduce me to or at least one or two you introduce me to are songs I've come back to over and over like what a fantastic uh selection of music for for for Canada Day and we celebrated Toronto so people should go back to 677. And if you want the initial deep dive, you came over, it was episode 456. And we chatted about your career and the never ending present, the story of Gore Downey and the Tragically Hip.

We went two hours because I'm a big hip fan. I had lots of questions for you. Lots of gems. So if anyone listening, I can't imagine there's anyone listening to this program who actually likes the Tragically Hip. But if you're out there, there's a book for you and an episode of Toronto Mic'd for you. They were a 90s band.

Yeah, they were primarily a 90s band. So do you like the Tragically Hip or you just found it to be a compelling story? I do. There's so much about the 90s i don't enjoy and i'm i'm okay before we get into your book which starts in 2000 like give me a name check like a toronto sorry not toronto a canadian 90s band that someone like me probably digs and you think sloan oh really oh wait sorry finish your sentence because i think you're gonna say that i was gonna say that you don't like oh okay so we got it that you don't like. Oh, okay. Okay, so we got it.

Jay Ferguson listens to this program, you know. Set the record straight. You do like Sloan. I do like Sloan. What are the bands that guys like me maybe rave about? Maybe we even drool about them and you're like, that wasn't all that in a bag of chips. What's going on?

Although Sloan were on Big Shiny Tunes, I would generalize and say the Big Shiny Tunes crowd. And you can make of that what you will. You can infer from that what you will. You're bashing FOTMs. Okay, because Michael Treblecock is an FOTM. He's with the, yeah. He's with, what's the name of their band again?

Killjoys. Killjoys. I just went Rave and Drool and now I'm all over it. The sun is hitting me hard here. Okay, so you're not a big 90s guy, but you do like Sloan, which is really, that's the core. I mean, outside of Tragically Hip, that's the core, I'd say. Yeah, pretty much.

Good stuff. Okay, so this book, which we're going to be talking about, is an authoritative, unprecedented account of how, in the early 2000s, Canadian music finally became cool. I didn't want that on the back of the book. Finally, it's always been cool. Right.

But the point is, this is when the rest of the world noticed. And it's when the weirdos won. That's kind of the thesis of the book. What do you think of stars? Love stars. Actually, I would say that while writing this book, I became a much bigger stars fan than I ever was. I was always quite neutral on stars.

I always respected them. I liked a few songs. Wouldn't go out of my way to see them or anything. And now, love them. What changed you? What turned you there? The melancholy of the pandemic, maybe? Oh, did you have the, who did you, who did you interview from the stars?

Like who did you, did you talk to anyone from the stars? Torkel, Amy and Evan. But actually also they, they put on a play right before the pandemic, a autobiographical theater experience. And I'll be honest with you, I didn't love the play. But I walked out of it with so much more respect for them and their music. And then I started diving in

deeper, and the more I listened, the more I loved it. Can I call him Tork? You can, many do. Do Friends Tork. Okay, so Tork is coming on Toronto Night. That will be one of your favorite interviews ever. Is it? Yes, absolutely. He's got to beat Dave Thomas. I just did a Dave Thomas, like two points. I think he might beat Dave Thomas.

Wow. Okay. You've got me excited here. Okay. Tork is coming on Toronto Mic'd, and he actually has a question for you before we get to the jams and start talking. He says, who first called Brendan Canning the champ? He's always wondered this.

Yeah. I don't know the answer to that question. I saw it. I engaged with him on Twitter because he responded to your call out for questions. Right. I don't know the answer to that question I saw I engaged with him on Twitter because he responded to your call out for questions I don't know the answer to that my educated guess no sorry my entirely uneducated guess would be Dave Bookman because Dave

Bookman was an early champion of the band Head from which 2 H's yeah Noah Mintz and Brendan Canning and I'm forgetting the name of the original drummer. And then there was another one. Anyway.

And then my friend Dave Merritt from Ottawa area, El Monte. He thinks it's Jose Contreras of By Divine Right. Okay. Has he been on your show? No. Oh, he'd be great too. See this, I'm a thousand episodes deep and I've just scratched the surface. Yeah, yeah.

So many conversations to have. So Bookie or Jose is my guess. Can we open with a few more words? Because Bookie's all over this book, and Bookie's sadly no longer with us, gone far too soon. But can you say some more words, Mr. Barkley, about the late, great Dave Bookman?

What a passionate fan of Canadian music in particular. Music in general, of course. But I didn't know him. And if you want bookie stories, you got to get Dave Bedina to tell you some salty ones. But I was just always excited whenever I saw Bookman on stage. I mean, he was great on radio too.

But like when he would introduce someone on stage, you couldn't be more excited to see what was about to come next because of what he was saying. And the other Bookman story I'll tell you on a more poignant note. Yes, please. I wanted to interview him for Have Not Been the Same.

Because he was around, he had a band called The Bookman and he was around the rheostatics and a lot of people. And I asked him if he wanted to be interviewed for it. He's like, why are you writing about this time? No one has died yet. And I was like, wow.

And then I've thought about that so much. I thought about it a lot while writing the Tragically Hip book. And I thought about it when he passed. And I really hope someone somewhere has a really deep dive interview with Dave Bookman about his life and work because I mean again one thing I learned from the hit book is don't wait to tell these stories you got to tell them now you know if I may jump piggyback on that is that as you can imagine Dave Bookman was high on my list of people I wanted on Toronto Mike high on my list and he very politely declined see and I often think because i've yet to lose this is good news

for you mr berkeley i've yet to lose a guest of toronto mike like this is 10 years and over a thousand episodes and no one's actually died who's been a guest on this program yet yet of course it was inevitable i've got nono nono generians i don't even know how to say that word but i mean there's some you know what's gonna happen right like but obviously imagine it never happens wow and we figure out this everybody's coming on this show now shout out to ridley funeral home they'd be there you know shout out to ridley funeral home pillars of the community since 1921 absolutely so and by the way in the background not one of this is not one of my 10 jams but i absolutely adore this hidden camera song like it's just a good way to start us off. From death to life.

Also poignant. Yes. But I always often think about the fact when Dave Bookman passed away, imagine I had that 90 minutes of Bookman on Toronto Mic and he's just talking about the Bookman and he's talking about his radio career and the real statics

and Young and the Restless and baseball. Baseball, young and the restless and baseball. Baseball, yeah. Like, and that does not exist. And I wish it did, obviously. And I wish Pookie was still with us. Little hidden cameras, and then we're going to be fun. By the way, this shirt I'm wearing also came from Dewar.

Isn't it amazing? And you're right. And you got a toque on that. You know, it's not a toque day. I got to get rid of my toques. But that is from Canna Cabana. So if you're looking for the lowest prices on cannabis or cannabis accessories, you go to Canna Cabana. Is this supposed to be a cannabis leaf?

This looks like a spruce. It's their logo, but it is cannabis leaf-esque. Can I get a spruce joint from Canna Cabana? I was in Niagara Falls this weekend and there's a Canna Cabana right there on the strip. It was fun to see it out there in the wild.

I don't do cannabis, but I might do spruce. You know, it's not too late to become a pothead. Wiseblot was over here the other day. By the way, Wiseblot wanted me to let you know he's actually a big fan of your work. I think he's concerned you don't realize he's a big fan, but Wiseblot is a big fan of your writing.

It's mutual. Is that right? We worked on iWeekly together. Right, okay. Not together, but as freelance contributors who never met each other, as is the line of work. That's how it worked. So shout out to Mark Weisbott. But he's decided to become a pothead.

He's in his mid, whatever, late 40s. I don't know what he is, actually. What do I know? But he's going to become a pothead now, and he's going to do it at Canna Cabana. So shout out. And real quick, because I'm going to pop open a beer while we listen to these jams and talk about them.

But I want to give some love to Great Lakes Brewery. I have a... I think three of the four beers and they're cold if you wanted one but you can take them home with you and have them later of course. But this is a beautiful day for some Great Lakes. There you go.

So where to begin? I'm going to begin with a beloved FOTM, if that's okay. So let's hear a bit of this, and then we're going to talk about this. Mm. You're where all the poets go You're where all the ashes blow You're the kind of maker That makes the whole world come true My baby, she's inside me now I made her a place to settle down

That's close to my heart She likes the sound it's 20 minutes out of town airline water breaking fast in New York City low on cash

another week and you'll be back and you'll be saying home at last but don't act broken even when you're You'll be back and you'll be saying home at last. But don't act broken even when you're broken. It's just one of those things. Hawksley Workman. Wait for the, wait for the.

Thank God you're timeless. Cause my watch got stolen Just gotta wait for the high note. It's the good stuff that you bring Don't be crushed Oh my God. Be crushed Oh my god Talk to me about Hawk First of all

I haven't listened to that in a good set of headphones in a while The pillowy heartbeat of the bass drum is gorgeous Like the production on that is so good And he did all that in his basement on an 8-track recorder Like on top of you know on that is so good. And he did all that in his basement on an 8-track recorder. Like, on top of, you know, his kind of whiz kid skills on any particular instrument, what a phenomenal producer

and just gets great sounds. And at that time, got great sounds out of not very much equipment. Which is really indicative of this time period as well. I think one of the many things that led to the burst in creativity was

people were able to make records that sounded like that in their basement. And he would do it for other people. He would do it for John Southworth, he'd do it for Tegan and Sarah, he would do it for Paul McLeod, Serena Ryder later, and he would charge them $100 a song

and produce, mix, master it out the door and he would play everything. So if you're a guitar player, you come in, you lay down your track and then he would do piano, drums, everything else and door, and he would play everything. So if you're a guitar player, you come in, you lay down your track, and then he would do piano, drums, everything else and give it to you for $100. I mean, I already liked him, but now I like him even more.

Because he's a sweetheart, too. I will chime in. When I can vouch for someone being a sweetheart, I have to do so. He's one of my favorite interviews. I mean, just a really entertaining guy, humble guy, very smart, speaks in full paragraphs. Right.

Brutally honest. Yeah. Great podcast guest. And he digs the vibe of what's going down here. I mean, he had his Huxley Night in Canada show during the pandemic, and it was really tonally on point, I would say. Nice. Freddie Mercury, eat your heart out. Seriously. Can you still hit that note?

I need to know. Oh, probably. And he gets his own chapter in the book, not because I think he's one of the most important people in the book, because everybody is important, but because his trajectory was quite interesting. And, he started out the way I just described and then became, became an indie sensation. Um, had a freak radio hits just cause one person who's distributed through universal,

one person in the office liked it and she really pushed for it. So now he has like a, a corporate rock radio hit. And this is striptease. Yeah. And then, um, long story short, he ends up being on a major label in France and touring all around Europe. And he's opening for Bowie over there. And he said, you know,

he'd get off a plane. He'd hear a song in the airport. You get in the cab, he'd hear a song in the cab, he'd go out for dinner. He'd hear a song in the restaurant. Like a lot of people here don't realize how huge he was in, in Europe.

Right. Um, and then for a bunch of reasons that all that crashed and burned within, within a couple of years. And he's had a pretty- He blames Billy Talent. Partially, yeah, he does. Because his record company

put out a rock single from his record and then he heard Try Honesty. He's like, that's rock music. I'm just pretending to do rock music.

Those guys make rock music. It was eight, not eight, I almost said Ageless Beauty. Anger. Anger as Beauty. Yeah. Which, by rock music. I think it was, not Ageless, I almost said Ageless Beauty. Anger. Anger as Beauty. Yeah.

Which, by the way, I go on the record as saying I actually like that song. I think that's a great song, but it's not try-honesty, but you know, it's like you don't bang your head to it.

Yeah, I think he's felt a generational shift and then the label's like, yeah, enough from you. Enough from you, Huxley. And now he lives in Peterborough, I believe. Right in Peterborough, I believe, yeah. Yeah, he's a good boy.

Okay, so we are going to be, and I am going to go chronological order in terms of like your chapters. And I'm going to skip, I got to tell people, it was very difficult to come up with 10 jams because it's like, of course I want to play a Sarah Harmer song or The Weaker Thans, of course I want to play something from The Weaker Thans or Joel Plaskett. And another FOTM, Danko Jones, song or the weaker thans of course i want to play something from the weaker thans or joel plaskett and another fotm uh danko jones uh although the only song i mean i think our listenership might

know is bounce am i right like uh lover call is also a radio all right right right right right right but dank like i kind of like the new danko who's just like out of fucks to give and he's telling it like it is and well he never had fucks to give that's his whole stick he was just like out of fucks to give and he's telling it like it is and well he never had fucks to give that's his whole shtick he was just waiting for social media or whatever but you have him in a chapter called uh second acts and 90s survivors and so the other people in that chapter are sarah harmer plaskett and the weaker than so they all um so john sampson the weaker than's was in a band called propaganda who were huge in punk rock circles and particularly political punk rock circles. I think Ron Hawkins will tell you that was his favorite band. Oh yeah, totally, yeah.

And they're still around. I think they're playing two sold-out nights at Lee's shortly, maybe later this month. So that's Samson's background. And then Sarah Harmer, of course, had Weeping Tile and Joel Plaskett had Thrush Hermit. So Danko Jones didn't have a previous band, but he was a minor Toronto sensation in the late

nineties. And then kind of same thing as Hockersley, had a couple of radio hits and then Canada just decided they were done with them. And then he had a whole second life in Europe. And I mean, he's on tour in Scandinavia right now and selling out venues everywhere. And he plays those huge festivals in front of

tens of thousands of people. He's figured out how to play that game. Like he's figured out, you know, how to get paid basically to tour Europe and see the beautiful European city, these festivals. Yeah, he's got it going on. Good for you, Danko. And similar to Huxley Workman, I think it's not

something a lot of Canadians realize, you know, and it's just some abstract, oh, really, he's got it going on. Good for you, Danko. And similar to Hoxie Workman, I think it's not something a lot of Canadians realize. And it's just some abstract, oh, really, you're big in Sweden. It's like, no, actually, I really am. Right. Yeah, I think people are always surprised to find out what a big deal Danko Jones is in Europe. And all that is part of the point of the book, too.

It's like, you may know and love these records, or you may hate these artists. I don't know. But again, this is a time when the rest of the point of the book too, it's like, yeah, you may know and love these records or you may hate these artists. I'll, I don't know, but, but this is, again, this is a time when the rest of the world actually noticed. And it wasn't just our,

our, our Brian Adams and Celine Dion. Well, here's another jam. We all noticed. I love you Someone on the radio, radio This choice of hollow stars Now the world truly loves

And I'm clear of my life I'm only here to go to shows This is not the way In the street like dawn In the life, dawn In street life, dawn This picture's on New Pornographers So you dive deep into new pornographers in your chapter six from Blowing Speakers.

I had a dream about them last night, actually. Yeah, they were playing in a high school classroom. That's bizarre. And I booked them there. Nothing about the dream made sense, of course. That means you got some anxiety in your life. Because this dream, I'm guessing they didn't show, but you booked them and everybody was expecting them.

No, they showed, but it was a weird gig. They were literally playing inside a high school classroom. And I ducked out of the gig to talk to somebody else. Then I felt bad. I'm like, I booked them to play this weird-ass gig. And then I didn't even show up. Anyway, I am a big fan. And they did a 20th anniversary tour of Mass Romantic,

delayed by two years for obvious reasons, and they played two shows at the Danforth, and their most recent record was also one of their best ones. And that was the other thing about writing about a lot of these people. It's like none of these, well, some of the stories are over, but a lot of them are not. And a lot of these people. It's like none of these, well, some of the stories are over, but a lot of them are not. And a lot of them, the most recent record is one of the strongest. And that's definitely the case with this band.

Without a doubt. But this is an epic jam. Yep. This came out, and I argue that this is one of the kind of the opening salvos. Like this album came out, well, Letter From An Album came out in the spring of 2000 and got a crazy amount of attention for a band made up of people nobody cared about. Like people jokingly called it a super group and then people started taking it seriously. But nobody, nobody cared who Zampano were. Nobody cared who Destroyer was at that time.

Now they do. Nobody cared who Nico Case was at that time. They're only beginning to. Right. And, and then the record came out in the fall and then the New York Times was like, this is one of the best records of the year. And it wasn't even out in the States yet. It was still on Mint Records out of Vancouver. So, yeah, between that and Peaches and Godspeed,

like, you know, there's three acts that don't sound anything like each other. And yet I felt like that was the beginning of this new movement. And then there's this part, this Beach Boys part. Oh, so good. This boy's life among the electrical lies

This boy's life among the electrical lies This boy's life among the electrical lies So you mentioned Peaches, so... Not a lot of bands you go see have six-part harmony on stage, by the way. No, seriously. Wow, it sounds so great in the headphones too. We're rolling right into the next jam because you mentioned

Triple bypass at the double A triple X Here it comes Make sure you can hear me before you speak up and then motherfuckers step up. This is no longer a family-friendly podcast. Was it ever, though?

Come on. Oh, listen to that. That's pretty filthy without any words right there, that bass tone. It's just so dirty. filthy if there are any words right there, that bass tone. It's just so dirty. I like that innocent type, deer in the headlight, rockin' me all night Flexin' is my, doin' it right, keepin' me tight, takin' a bite out of the peach tonight Consider my suspicion, let's see if my intuition has any volition Cause I'm on a mission for the emission of competition And the definition of my position, it's bitchin', it's bitchin', it's bitchin', it's bitchin' See, I was going to play some Feist and I said, no, fuck that.

Like we've all heard Feist. Let's hear some Peaches. Who is to play some Feist, and I said, no, fuck that. Like, we've all heard Feist. Let's hear some Peaches. Who is directly responsible for Feist, her success. So tell that story. So Peaches and Feist were roommates living above, wait for it, Come As You Are, the sex store on Queen Street West at the time. Just slightly down from Rotate This. And Leslie Feist was a waitress,

and Peaches taught drama to five-year-olds, first at the Y and then in her private teaching practice. And it sounds so weird to think that this woman would teach your five-year-old, but it does make sense if you've ever seen peaches on stage because she's all about like getting people to participate and and and uh and she she kind of comes across like the the dirtiest camp counselor you've ever seen in your life but she said she learned so much from performing for children because you know adults adults will just ignore if they're not feeling, they're just going to ignore you. But kids, you know.

You cannot slack off in front of children. And they're on you if you're not delivering. Well, they'll eat you alive. Quite literally. Like a peach. Yes, exactly like a peach. So she and Leslie were living together and then Peaches and her friend Gonzalez

went to Berlin just kind of on a whim and kind of toured around around open mic nights and busking and just any kind of random club gig they could find. Long story short, they started doing really well there and then they invited Leslie to go over there with them and be their kind of sidekick on stage and kind of sing a couple of torch songs in between songs like this. And that led to a major label record deal in france

before she had anything going on here she put out a record here that was amazing and the people who heard it loved it but um but it didn't it did nothing it was just a wet fart basically and uh then she went over there and got the deal and then a few years later made let it die and and was a big success so a lot of people don't realize that Feist-Peaches connection necessarily. People in Toronto probably do, but people outside of Toronto don't know that story, I think. There's a lot of great detail in Chapter 7,

First We Take Berlin there. Yeah, and even Peaches as an artist, you don't hear a lot about Peaches, I feel like. She is also coming to she's doing the 20th anniversary of Peaches about Peaches. I feel like She is also coming to she's doing the 20th anniversary of Peaches the Peaches again two years later for obvious reasons

but I think she's playing Down by the Water. What's that venue called? I haven't been to venues in so long. Okay. Well which one? Sugar Beach? Rebel? Oh no it's not it's called the Sound Academy. It was the Sound Academy. Oh it became Rebel. You're right. It is Rebel. She's playing Rebel at the end of the month. Yeah I haven't been there since it called the Sound Academy. It was the Sound Academy. Oh, it became Rebel. You're right. It is Rebel. She's playing Rebel at the end of the month.

Yeah, I haven't been there since it was the Sound Academy. I saw Public Enemy there like five years ago, but it's been a while. But yeah, the Rebel nightclub by the docks. Yeah, tickets available now. And TNT. And I was in Berlin recently, and I was talking to people about the book, and they're like, oh, yeah, of course, Peaches. She's like our city mascot here.

Wow. Yeah, like Berlin. I had no idea. She's like our city mascot here. Wow. Yeah, like Berlin. I had no idea. She's still a goddess in Berlin. Okay, I have so much to learn. Okay, so I then again, the struggle with picking 10 jams out of this era in Canadian music you cover so

eloquently and wonderfully, but there's I wanted to play some Dears, I wanted to play some Sam Roberts, but here this is what's next for us on my playlist. We'll be right back. All your life This is your kingdom Every beast has its poison This is your kingdom Every beast has its poison Every lion has its victim

Choose your crime Pour the ashes out the window Empty Mickey by the river Shining like a broken halo Constantine's yes from Shine a Light 2003 and in the book I make the argument that that's one of three Toronto records of this era that people still love and consider classics, along with, I think, Let It Die and You Forgot It in People.

Right. And I want to shout out drummers for a second. Do it. Doug McGregor of this band is one of my favorite drummers of all time, as are most of the drummers in this book and you know the old adage shitty drummer shitty band sure uh so many of these bands just have killer killer drummer like name any band in this book and the drummers i mean like the weaker thans wolf parade arcade fire um now i'm suddenly blanking, let me look at the book.

Billy Talent, Alexis on Fire, Black Mountain. How long did it take you to write that book? Roughly two years. From when I actually started working on it. That's a serious commitment. Once you decide on what your next book is going to be about, that's a, that's a massive commitment. Yeah,

it is. There's also a pandemic. So there wasn't a lot else to do at the time. Um, but the hip book did really well. And, and when it did well, I was like,

well, what am I going to do next? And it's like, okay, well this, this is the time to do this book that I've wanted to do for a long time. Um, I've wanted to do it for at least 10 years,

but like when all this stuff was happening, when Have Not Been the Same came out, I'd spent so much time listening to music from 10, 15 years ago, I kind of tuned out a little bit as to what was happening then. And then I didn't realize that at the time the Constantines lived literally 100 meters away from me

and were holding shows in their basement and they're getting rave reviews in Toronto. I'm like, oh! So then I left my house, crossed the street, went to their basement, and they're getting rave reviews in Toronto. I'm like, oh. And anyway, so then I left my house, crossed the street, went to their basement, and just had my face melted. Wow. Yeah.

Hey, so you mentioned it have not been the same. Can you just say some nice words? They don't have to be nice. It's up to you. Jason Schneider, because Jason's been over since your last appearance, so I've got to know Jason. And John Borah came over with him.

And like, I love this guy. Like, what can you say about Jason Schneider? He's a great guy. He's the reason Havnup in the same exists. Because he was the one who hustled it around to agents and publishers and dealt with all the blows until finally ECW said yes. And so, yeah, he's the reason that book exists, basically. And he wrote a great book called Whispering Pines.

So people say that Hearts on Fire is the sequel to Have Not Been the Same. Right. And I tell people this is, we kind of did this like Star Wars. So Have Not Been the Same is the middle chapter and that came out first. And then Jason put out Whispering Pines,

which is like the prequel. It's talking about like Ian and Sylvia and Joni and Neil and Leonard and Gord and the band. And then this is The Last Jedi right here. Does that make sense? It makes sense, but there's no more coming? Oh, I don't know. Because you end there in 2005.

I guess that's it. Call it a day. We're going to develop random TV series at this point. When is the Netflix CanCon series? Don't they have to provide some Canadian content over there? My DMs are open. What is your handle on Twitter, in case Netflix is listening? Three letter M's in my last name.

Oh, speaking of M's, I just this morning booked Martha and the Muffins. Amazing. M plus M plus M. You should have me on as well. And the first question I got, which I found interesting, was like, okay, I'll be the third M. You're Michael, I'm a Mike.

Is that because you're you want to be taken seriously? Of course. And Mikes are jokes. Is that what you're saying? That's not what I'm saying. Do I amuse you, Michael I'm a Mike is that because you're you want to be taken seriously of course and mics are jokes is that what you're saying that's not what I'm saying do I amuse you Michael what the fuck

it's funny about me alright where am I going here oh Eminem quick is that the first question I got for Eminem because they're both coming over like they're both going to be here Martha and Mark

yeah is like how did you feel you changed your name because Black Stations White Stations amazing song by the way quite the jam in 84 so underrated and you know it's 84 Martha and Mark is like, how did you feel? You changed your name. Cause, uh, black stations, white stations, amazing song, quite the jam in 84. So underrated.

And you know, it's 84 cause they name check the year and the lyrics. So I was like, this is 1984. They were Eminem for that. Yeah. Then there was an M. Now we have an Eminem.

Yeah. You can't be Eminem anymore. Like, how do you feel that there's an Eminem shows up? It takes your Eminem. And he's a big fucking deal. This Eminem. That's true. I love, uh, Martha and the your Eminem. And he's a big fucking deal, this Eminem. That's true.

I love Martin and the Muffins. Dance Park, all time. I think I played Dance Park. You know what? I was thinking of the songs you played because you had the Cherry Beach Express, which is now like always on my,

and I reference it quite a bit. And I, if I had heard it before you played it, it didn't take hold until you, I'm pointing now to where I used to, I didn't know what to do out here. It's like we have a pandemic, we're in the backyard. I put you down

there and I realized very shortly thereafter that no, you should be there because then the sun won't be in your eyes. Anyways, so now you've been promoted. Basically you've been promoted. I know spoiler, but it's like Bubs, you can been... I know, spoiler, but it's like, Bubs, you can come upstairs now.

Okay. When I picked my 10 jams, I didn't want to just pick the 10 jams you might hear me kick out on toast. Like, let's leave the comfort zone. So here's a jam where I completely leave my comfort zone. Let's talk about this. Rodeo's over and it's back to the greater. First thing Monday morning. A dually diesel pulling hard with a horse trailer in tow. Montana side of sweet grass and I'm headed home.

Trophy buckles and whiskey bottles and a worn out saddle horn. Bareback riders and team rope is a husking tape of corn. Well, the roads get better every time I cross North of 49. I tip my hat and it's good to be back across the medicine line. Hurting, now burning, with nothing more to lose. Too much oil money, not enough booze. East of the Rockies and west of the rest. I do my best to do my damn this and that's just about all I guess.

Hurton, Albertan! Oh yeah! Woo! Corb Lund. So, tell me about, you know, you've titled this chapter, Chapter 10, Country in the City. Yep, after a Carolyn Mark song. And I mean, you know, we know the Sadies. We could talk about the Sadies Yep, after a Carolyn Mark song. And I mean, you know, we know the Sadies. We could talk about the Sadies.

We could talk about Kathleen Edwards and then the Be Good Tanyas. And there's this band, Corb Lund, I'm reading about. And I actually have to plead complete ignorance. Like, I just learned they existed from your book. Because you are from Ontario. Is that right? No, Corb Lund does well across the country in the States and in Australia.

But, yeah. Slow No, Corvalon does well across the country in the States and in Australia. But yeah, slow climb for him in Toronto. First time I saw him was with Jeff Berner at the Raintree Cafe in Waterloo in front of about five other people. When he put out what I think is his greatest record, one of the greatest records by anybody ever, it's called $5 Bill, came out in 2003, played the Trans Act, maybe 20 people.

And it's just like, what is going on? I think he's an incredible writer. I think he's like Steve Earle, Lyle Leavitt level writer, John Prine level writer. And just an amazing band. And so he's a fascinating guy. He grew up in Southern Alberta on a ranch. His dad was a horse veterinarian. He was a rodeo, teenage rodeo king. And he played in a speed metal band and went to jazz school

and then ended up playing country music. So pretty fascinating guy. And yeah, $5 bill. When people talk about underrated records at this time, I always come to that because not many people outside of Alberta know it. Now, $5 bill way better than Limp Bizkit's $3 bill, y'all. Indeed. At least $2 better.

At least $2 better. And he's put out a lot of great records since. And there's one called Cabin Fever, maybe five or six years ago. It was really great. And he's on tour right now as well I think he's coming to the Horseshoe he just put out kind of a stopgap record called Songs My Friends Wrote

and he has a great version of Jeff Berner's song That's What Keeps the Rent Down Baby an ode to the shock troops of gentrification so yeah I'm a big I'm digging it like in this jam it reminded me a little of like because we recently lost the guy who did Convoy.

We got a great big... Because you have that... I heard that song in an unfortunate context this spring. Oh yeah, that's right. The whole Convoy has been ruined forever. But it's got that CB radio sound in this jam too.

So it's like, oh yeah. It's like a Dukes of Hazzard jam or something like that. But I dig it. I mean, I'm married to an Albertan. I hope she's not a herd of an Albertan. Get her over here. Get a third mic open. But dig it. And it was just interesting to read. And maybe

while we're in the country and the city chapter, let's shout out the Sadies. Oh my lord. That was devastating. So Dallas Good died of a heart attack or something related to heart, some pulmonary condition. Shoveling snow. Oh, I didn't hear that. And that's what I heard. And that happened while the book was at the printer. So it's not like I could update it or say anything about it right um but you know it really reinforced to me again like i said off the top writing the hip book you know i was writing that while gordon was terminal i didn't know how long he would live some people live

um several years but he lived kind of the expected amount for that diagnosis which is like 18 months i think i can't remember, two years. And, you know, one of the, the guy who produced the first two records, hip records that everybody loves so much, Don Smith, had died 10 years earlier. And the guy who produced Fully Completely died six months after I talked to him. So. And who's that again? Chris Sangarides.

Right. Who also made Concrete Blondes, big, big records. Right. So, you know, and then I start writing this book and suddenly I'm in the middle of a pandemic. I'm like, Jesus Christ, this time everybody could die. So, you know, it just really undermined the urgency of it. And then as it's at the printer, one of the key characters dies.

I mean, so young too. I feel like- 48, younger than me. Yeah. Um, so that was devastating. Now the Sadie's news, which I was quite honestly shocked by,

but more power to them. I don't know how they're going to do this, but, uh, they had already finished a record produced by Richard Reed Perry of Arcade Fire. Um, and they had released a couple of singles.

Uh, so that everything was already moving in terms of that. Um, and then, uh, a few weeks ago they announced the release couple of singles uh so that everything was already moving in terms of that um and then uh a few weeks ago they announced the release date of the album and announced that they're going on tour wow so i don't know if there's a second guitarist or if it's just uh travis handling everything with um sean dean and mike blitzky uh i'm unclear as to what the sadie's plan is but they're i mean that's what the Sadie's do is they tour. Like,

uh, so I'm very, very curious to, to see what the future of the Sadie's is. Yeah. You and me both. Okay. Let's,

uh, revisit a jam from, uh, my new BFF torque. Here we go. God, that was strange to see you again Introduced by a friend of a friend Smiled and said, yes, I think we've met before In that instant it started to pour

Catched a taxi to Sparta, the land We drove in silence Across Pontchartrain And all of that time You thought I was sad I was trying to remember you and me This scar is a flack on my porcelain skin Tried to reach deep but you couldn't get in Now you're outside and you see all the beauty

Repent all you see It's nothing but time and a face that you lose I chose to be late and you couldn't choose I'll write you a postcard, I'll send you the news Bye. Live through this and you won't look back Live through this and you won't look back

are you fucking kidding me Michael are you listening to this I listen to this I listen to that all through the pandemic and that that chorus or bridge whatever it is live through this and you won't look back. Because I heard Mass Romantic a half an hour ago and I was thinking, what the, this is, and then I hear this again and I'm like, no wonder you wrote a fucking book about this era.

Like, that's amazing. I went to see them at the Phoenix in December and the whole place is weeping when they hit that line. And I love what you named this chapter. By the way, I would say chapter 11 is a book unto itself. Yeah, Stuart Berman wrote it. Okay, well. Whoa. Oh, so where did that go?

Okay, hold on here. Your battery okay? Yeah. Am I plugged in here? Okay. We're fine here, everybody. The jam is not, but we are fine. Okay, well, we'll...

We'll live through this and we will not look back. Right, thank you. Yeah, it's so appropriate. Okay, well, we got the heart of it. I mean, we all know that jam, but okay. So, if you don't own that already, what's wrong with you? You call yourself a fan of music. Okay, so what were you about...

Oh, yeah, so that book has been written. Okay, but the title of this chapter 11, interesting, this chapter 11, is Your ex-lover is in the band and this is really like broken social scene stars we just heard metric like now now we're cooking with gas you know what i mean like it's like forget the fact that i know we're all we're partial to canadian this book is celebrating canadiana but uh regardless of your passport, that's jam, isn't it? That's a jam. That's a great song.

I wish that was true of Stars as a band in general, but that song in particular of theirs has enormous legs. And it's such an odd song. Again, I don't think there is, it's kind of a series of verses in, uh, either three, four or six,

eight. I, my music brain is not on right now. My theory brain. Um, but it's a waltz and, uh, and yeah,

there's no real chorus except for that live through this thing, which only happens once in the song. There's a melodica in it. Like there's a lot of things that's like, why, why this song? And I mean, Amy Mland too talks about like the first time she heard it first time she's like I didn't think it was anything special

Torque just said okay now you sing this part I'm like okay by far the fan favorite I hope Torque knows I'm going to spend two hours on that one song he's got cleared his schedule I've seen children's choirs sing that there's like this Vancouver children's choir that do versions of pop songs and kind of like Langley school

style and they do a beautiful version of that I mean I don't want to know spoiler but we're going to hear There's like this Vancouver children's choir that do versions of pop songs and kind of like Langley school style. And they do a beautiful version of that. I mean, I don't want to know spoiler, but we're going to hear a band out of Montreal at some point before Michael leaves here. And I was thinking you could take like take them and put the Stars Jam and the Mass Romantic. And it's like that that's just that is the cream of the crop right there for 2000 to 2005. And every Canadian should be proud of this output. Fantastic. And again,

stars have a new record out in a couple of weeks. And, um, you know, one friend of mine this past year were like, I told him, told him I was going to go see stars. He's like,

Oh, did they get back together? I'm like, Oh buddy. Uh, I mean, they put out great records in the 2010s that didn't get near enough notice but they're all just as good

as the records everybody knows shout out those other two bands I mentioned there I mean Broken Social scene that's almost like low hanging fruit there they were a killer at Massey Hall a couple weeks ago and there's also a new Metric album yeah and one degree of separation there but

and Broken Social I had Noah Mintz on the program it was real fun there's also a new metric album. So yeah. And a degree of separation there, but, uh, and broken social is, I was, I had no amends on the program. It was real fun. And I, like, I think no amends gets Brendan canning to like, actually get into music.

Like they meet at school or something. And he's like, you know, right. So it's like, do we have a broken social scene? If not for no amends, like the,

you know, if you start thinking about like, uh, you know, the butterfly flapping its wings on the other side, quite a few butterflies. There's a lot of butterflies at play here but damn okay so everybody buy uh michael's book just for chapter 11 your ex-lover is in the band just beautiful okay well i this is beautiful as well let's listen to something a little different. Please tell me what's the master plan? Master plan spent so many days, many days sitting on a cloud.

Sitting on a smooth cloud. Now I break out of my physical shell and exhale past the so-called body. Used to go to the party, but now I'm sitting chill with a pen in the pad. Dropping ill philosophical science, me and my dad, we talk about life and how it started. How we departed from life's path and probable right math. The task at hand is making people understand that we're not who we think we are. Within this land of the lost, the cost of souls could be so high. People be getting high, wondering why we die, but it's all plenty learning concerning.

The fact, I sing and I rap, I hold this mic contact. Critics can step back and analyze I energize with cosmic rays The days that ignore Getting my signal from the sun Cause I don't understand Don't understand Won't you tell me please

What's the master plan Spent so many days Sitting on a cloud Heaven only knows How to move the clouds Riddle me this Riddle me this like this Melodical prodigal flows

Heaven only knows And I remember the video, he's on a bicycle. I always remember, he's riding a bike. I thought he was in a jazz club. No, wait, that's a different song. I see the video like he's on a bike, and he's just biking through the city singing this jam. I'll be honest, I didn't watch a lot of TV during this time,

so a lot of these videos I saw for the first time while writing the book. This is like the last hurrah for much music, I'd say. Oh, totally, yeah. We'll talk about that in a bit with an act a little bit later. Drake is a bit of a mystery to this old man over here. So I'm like, what's the big appeal for you about Drake? Oh, he's like the first guy to rap and sing. I'm like, oh, my God.

You were having this discussion in a Toronto studio, no less. And they had no idea. And it's like, you know, i i'm quite sure that frustrates chaos but i mean uh never mind lauren hill or you know there's there's others as well and uh i mean what an incredible singer and great rapper and i mean revolution and babylon cannot defeat them Right, yeah. He's like the OG Toronto or Canadian rapper to be singing and rapping on his jams. And is he auto-tuned? No. I don't think he is.

No way. No way. Kevin Brereton, right? He's from Whitby, but as I was talking to Brother Bill the other day, he was a big CFNY listener. I mean, he was heavily influenced by Tribe Called Quest and all the native tongues people, but that stuff was kind of like six or seven years before he showed up. So in some ways he was a bit of a throwback, but he also, he didn't sound like that. Like you can tell that that influences his rapping style,

but it's not like the music sounded like that. And the music was really all over the place for better and worse. Like I think it confused a lot of people. And yet music was really all over the place, um, for better and worse. Like I think it confused a lot of people. And yet he also had massive pop hits like. Crab in the Bucket. Crab to this day. Uh,

Crab Bucket is, is one of the biggest. I still hear that song in grocery stores. Like it's like, it's, it's, it's at that level of Canadian consciousness up there with Lightfoot or whoever,

you know, it's. It sounds great. Now here, okay. I was thinking, do I skip this band? But I'm like, no, damn it.

Part of the story. So it's almost like too big for this episode, but we're going to do it here. So buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Never made it as a wise man. I couldn't cut it as a poor man stealing. Tired of living like a blind man.

I'm sick of sight without a sense of feeling. And this is how you remind me This is how you remind me Of what I really am This is how you remind me Of what I really am It's not like you to say sorry Our worlds we know, they're different stories

And this time I'm mistaken Foreheading you, a heart worth breaking And I've been wrong, I've been down Been to the bottom of every bottle These five words in my head Scream out, we haven't fun yet Yeah, yeah, yeah Michael, when you hear this in the headphones, I need a, like a, what is your guttural reaction?

Like, what is your real-time thoughts to hearing? Honestly, and entirely objectively, I mean, you know, I'm allergic to that piccolo snare. And I was trying to explain to someone, because they were on me, but why don't you like Nickelback? I'm like, you mean other than the constipation? I also don't like Creed,

and I don't even like Pearl Jam. I'm sorry, I know you're... No, you find it corporate rock, as opposed to more indie rock. That's my own snobbery. It sounds very formulaic. I can see it, though. It sounds like a pastiche of things that have already

been successful. That's for the masses, the bourgeoisie. Listen. No shame in that. But it is a lot of people's cup of tea. It is a lot of people, and I couldn't ignore it in the book, because if you're going to talk about Canadian music succeeding in the 2000s, this was literally the biggest band, rock band of the

decade. They sold, first of all, they sold physical copies of the record, which not too many other people actually did. Tough to do post-2000, right? Very tough to do. And they're massive. Again, I was in Berlin earlier this month or last month, and I heard this in like a souvenir shop. I'm like, oh, my God.

I can't believe it. People are like, oh, you're from Canada. Oh, yeah. You know, Alanis, Brian Adams. You know,. People are like, oh, you're from Canada? Oh, yeah, you know, Alanis, Brian Adams, you know, there'd be like three or four names they would know. Right.

Same way, you know, we'll lecture an Australian about In Excess or something as if that's the only band to ever come from there. Right. But this was a period of time when it didn't matter

that Nickelback was so big because there were so many other stories. Like, we weren't defined by Nickelback. Right. So that's heartening to me is that Nickelback was so big because there were so many other stories. Like we weren't defined by Nickelback. Right. So that's, that's heartening to me is that Nickelback was not the only representation

of Canada on the world stage. Dude, I totally get like, even I could totally see why. And I can even, this is a, that's a, one leads to the other.

So, you know, I'm a huge Prince fan. Prince influenced did some terrible, the influence is like. Prince influenced some terrible things, right? Sure. Well, because it's so much. It's like there's such volume of influence there.

But I mean, if you ask Eddie Vedder, like, what is he influenced by? There's a lot of punk in there. The Who, you know, there's a lot of. But anyway, but Nickelback, that jam, every time I hear it, and I don't ever like intentionally put it on, but I had loaded it because I was going to do a song and I'm like if you're going to go big or go home

if you're going to do a Nickelback go big so How You Remind Me and then I'm listening to the headphones and I actually started singing along

like almost like a Pavlovian dog react or something like I was singing along because it's you know I know it's not cool to say so

but that is a catchy as fuck song like it's not as cool as you know Broken Social Scene, you know, broken social scene and, you know, stars and all that,

but damn, it's a catchy as all hell. And he's very good at it. And the, and Cor Blund, your new friend, Cor Blund, makes the point in the book that,

you know, people, people always dumped on Kiss. Critics have always hated Kiss. And yet people who grew up with Kiss still love those records and it's big dumb rock music. It's super catchy. Good compare. Yeah. And I don't like Kiss either. Mind me. Yes. Because you're very good at your titling of chapters

and you do that, right? That's not some book publisher who says, I'm going to name these titles. Those are not corporately titled chapters. Let the record show Michael Barclay titles his own chapters. Okay. This has been great fun. And any little mind-blows or fun facts you want to throw in, let me know.

But I did think to myself, because I personally enjoy Alexis on Fire and Billy Talent and Fucked Up. And then I said, no, we're going to go straight to this guy. Quick point, though. Yeah, please. Quick point about Alexis on Fire.

Do it. Before you're talking about Munch Music, kind of the last gasp of Munch Music. Yeah, please. Quick point about Alexis on Fire. Do it. Before you were talking about Munch Music, kind of the last gasp of Munch Music. Yeah. I believe, and I could be wrong, but I feel like Alexis on Fire

was the last band to be broken on Munch Music. Because they were a bunch of teenagers from St. Catharines. They made this really slick looking video and they got it into rotation from message boards.

Like, there was like a vote-in show called Punch Much, and they rallied the message board troops to vote it in and dethrone Justin Timberlake. Wow. And then they became like a platinum-selling band in Canada and successful all around the world.

And I feel like that is directly because Much Music had this thing. Like the old days, which is long gone, you could call up a radio station and they would track requests and decide to add things or not based on that. Well, that's how the Chum charts were. Chum charts were just like calling

to find out what people are requesting, I think. And Friday, I'm dropping, if everyone shows up for their episodes, I'm dropping episode 1050 of Toronto Mic'd and it is a deep dive and introspective into the history of 1050 Chum as a top 40 station. Were you a Chum bug? A Chum bug's old school, right?

But did you listen to 1050 Chum when it was top 40? I had 1050 Chum charts pasted to my bedroom wall. Who was your favorite 1050 personality, if I may ask? I called the guy who called himself Bob McGee up once and got him to help me with my homework. And you know who he was? He was like, anybody need help? He was married to Jeannie Becker.

Yes, he was married to Jeannie Becker. I met them years later. That's my fun fact, but you already know that fact. I met them at a... Korthas. Long story. Wow. Yeah, but one day he's like...

Were you competing in this triathlon? I actually was. Okay, because I'm jealous now because I can't do the running part. I want to do a triathlon. You can't either. There were two levels of the triathlon. It was run by this former Olympian. So he had all his jock friends doing like an actual triathlon.

And then there was the amateur one. And I can't run either to save my life. But I can bike as easy as I can breathe. And I'm not a bad swimmer yeah i'm with you i'm a pretty good swimmer i'm a strong swimmer and i bike like you know you know no problem but uh the running part messes me up from entering a triathlon anyway and jeannie becker would be like in a pickup truck like following the people running and she'd be like looking good you're looking oh i didn't yeah shout out to bob mcgee who only recently left toronto radio because

he was the morning show host at I don't know how he got the gig, this indigenous station called Element FM until very recently. So shout out to Bob McGee. I actually wanted to get him on because he's been on the radio for 50 years and I can't remember why he politely turned me down Bookman style but you know, stop

doing that people. Come on. I'm not going to hurt you. It's going to be a good time. Are you here for the lasagna? Did you get a lasagna Stop doing that, people. Come on. I'm not going to hurt you. It's going to be a good time. Keep going. Are you here for the lasagna? Did you get a lasagna in the past? The one time I was here, I didn't get anything because it was pandemic and nobody was delivering. And the first visit I didn't have? First time I did get lasagna.

Okay, so you did. And I'm already a Great Lakes brewery fan. I want to compliment their pandemic deliveries. Yeah, for your delivery in the GTA, and they're still doing that. Good people. Okay, but I do have a las delivery in the GTA and they're still doing that. Yeah. Good people. Okay. But I do have a lasagna in the freezer for you and I want to shout out

both Palma Pasta and Sticker U, two great sponsors of the program helping to fuel the real talk. They've been here a long time and heck, we appreciate it.

You ready for another jam? Do it. Do it, huh? I said do it. You know what it is? It's the heat, I think, is getting to the last cup. Very hot out here. Thistories can speak about their heads with drugs Gruff, city life will leave you red with blood Punch holes in the walls, then they fed the thugs lunch After they rocked the party in a literal sense

Sentimentary propensity, they hit the kid in the lips Shit, you could be on white ass in the time you're lifer Then you get your arm broken by a rat He was trying to play me, but I didn't let him We peeled off quick, then we parked at IGA To break the seals off the lid Don't generalize, you must think and wonder why I drink 40s and memorize bus link numbers. Well, I don't have a license, but I'm trying to gain prominence

because I'm living in a house with a fridge full of condiments. See me on the bill, better follow me there. I solemnly swear I'll make it back to Oliver Square. See me on the bill, better follow me there. I solemnly swear I'll make it back to Oliver Square. Typical of the Toronto Mike experience, but I now learned I need to have something to stop the sun from beating down on the...

Put it on a block of ice. ...year-years, seriously. Too hot for Toronto Mike. Talk to me about Cadence Weapon. Cadence Weapon, I am reading his brand new book, which drops in a couple weeks, called Bedroom Rapper. Rolly Pemberton is his birth name, from Edmonton, now a resident of...

The thing I'm going to pursue after this recording. Hopefully he won't judge me for the fact that I truncated his song twice. Accidentally, I'm not touching a thing. Michael will tell you. It's The Gremlins. Lay off the Great Lakes, buddy. So Cadence Weapon kind of comes into the tail end of the time frame. So his album comes out in late 2005.

And I wanted to include him for a couple of reasons. One, Edmonton. Other than Cor Blund, there's not a lot of Alberta in the book. Teagan and Sarah. Just Nickelback. There's a fair amount of Alberta. He's a guy who gets his start as a music writer for the very early version of Pitchfork

and kind of thrives in message board culture and people trading mp3s that way and that's how his early tracks start circulating and it leads to a record deal which later proves out to be not awesome

he did work in some studios but he also did a lot of stuff on his home computer and just like figuring out the software himself. Roll your own. Yeah, totally. Shout out to Canna Cabana. Roll your own. Yeah, I know.

I dig the whole vibe of Cadence Weapon. And Cadence, Mr. Weapon, Mr. Weapon, if you're listening. In this chapter chapter this is the Weirdo Magnets chapter so maybe shout out some of these weirdos like you got

Buck 65 in here and Caribou what else Kid Koala yeah Kid Koala I think is another Kid Koala's first record

came out in 2000 that was another kind of opening salvo I think of the time period because I was like people were expecting him to make a hip hop record or something

he'd been working with Prince Paul of De La Soul and Del the Funky Homeless when he put it out it sounded like M a hip-hop record or something. He'd been working with Prince Paul of De La Soul and Del the Funky Homeless. When he put it out, it sounded like Muppet vaudeville or something. Nobody knew what to make of it, but it was unique and it was original and it was interesting. So he's a big part of that. And then someone like Caribou.

Again, talk about people who are still killing it. I saw Caribou at the Danforth in the fall and it was one of the greatest shows. Although apparently he's dropping something soon. People don't realize how really weird his early records were, and Kane's Weapon in particular was heavily influenced by him,

and writes in his book about how Buck was like the first person he heard really not trying to be anybody but himself, in terms of like a Canadian rapper, like he wasn't trying to pretend he was from New York or anything. He was from rural Nova Scotia, and he sounded like it. Right. Like he wasn't trying to pretend he was from New York or anything. He sounded, he was from rural Nova Scotia and he sounded like it.

Right. No, I'm a big fan. Yeah, he's got the great CBC. And I'm remembering how much I love this particular song. So I said, I'm going to throw it on there just to play it again here.

Hopefully this one plays through. But damn, do I love this song from Wolf Parade. Your eyes, I need the sunshine Your voice, your voice, your voice And your ghost We both men are very brave Walk around with bold lights One more scary day

We both pull the tricks out of our sleeves But in anything I'm glad this isn't a wedding. If I could get the fire out from the wire I'd take the fire out from the wire I'd take you and Nobody knows you and Nobody gives a damn All right, I think we... Okay, what a great jam.

I'll believe in anything. You know who covered that song? Tell me. Arcade Fire. Last time they played Oceaga. Did not know that. Chapter 16, which you called Drunk Clowns of the Victorian Era. And there's, I mean, the bands on this list, Hot Hot Heat, Wolf Parade, The Unicorns, Black Mountain.

Talk to me and then we'll finish Big and hopefully it'll play for me. There's a great story in that chapter about the making of the video for that song, which they shot in Budapest on the dime of a medical fraudster. And then, yeah, so Hot Hot Heat came out of Victoria. And I think they don't get enough credit for signing to Sub Pop and doing really well and having kind of big radio hits in the States. Like bandages. And I'm thinking, do you remember Good Night, Good Night?

Metric opened for Hot Hot Heat. Yeah. And I feel like they kind of get forgotten now a bit because they were very, their sound was very kind of of that time, that kind of gang of four-ish British post-punk kind of of that time, that kind of Gang of Four-ish, British post-punk kind of revival, along with like the Rapture and bands like that. Which I think the nostalgia cycle

is swinging back toward anyway, right now. I keep reading about something called indie sleaze fashion. Anyway, so maybe hot of Arcade Fire. Unicorns, one of the craziest stories in the entire book. And I can't even believe it's true. They had Arcade Fire open for them across the states. Wolf Parade were just,

were peers in Montreal that Winn Butler has said many times, like seeing Wolf Parade made him want to be a better band. He's like, he was ready to give up. Then he saw Wolf Parade. He's like, oh no, okay. We can do this

and we should be like that. Wow. Well, here, let's get get to it let me play the final jam and i'll keep my fingers crossed that this thing works i just closed my browser thinking maybe that was causing some issues here so let's let's see how this goes don't shoot me i'm just the piano player. Here we go. I'm a businessman, drink my blood Like the kids in high school said they would When I get soft, just begin again You say, can we still be friends? Cyn i mi ddod i'r cychwyn, byddaf yn dechrau eto Rydych yn dweud, allwn ni dal i fod yn ffrindiau? Os oeddwn i'n sgwri, byddaf yn gwneud hynny

Ac os oeddwn i'n ffodd, rydych yn gwybod fy mod i'n gwneud hynny Ac os oeddwn i'n eich hun, byddaf yn gwneud hynny You know I would And if I was yours I'm not All the kids have always known That they're perfect The longer I play this, I feel impressed in my luck, but man, it sounds great. Talk to me about Arcade Fire. Did you see them on saturday night live on the

weekend no they're great so good new record um all these people have new records uh arcade fire kind of part of the reason this book exists i would say them and leslie feist are the two mvps of the whole book um and again they show up at the end of the time period Funeral comes out in the fall of 2004 they play Coachella in the spring of 2005 that's kind of their big American coming out party and I really feel like their success was the culmination of everything that had happened in Canada in the last five years their friends at Three Gut Records

and their friends in Wolf Raid and the Unicorns the fact they recorded at godspeed black emperor's studio um you know all these things kind of point to arcade fire success i think so that's why the book ends with them and then i don't tell the whole arcade fire story i don't tell all of anybody's stories i kind of i try and um cut off the story somewhere between 05 and 2010. Because somebody else will write a book about a lot of these artists, or they'll write their own memoirs or something. I'm working on a book on Rusty.

There you go. There you go. So after the success of Funeral, I kind of wrap up their story. I don't really talk about Neon Bible. And then I mentioned that this record, the song of Funeral, I kind of wrap up their story. I don't really talk about Neon Bible. And then I mentioned that, you know, this record, the song you're playing, they actually played on the Grammys the night they won for Album of the Year for the Suburbs. And that event was one of the events that made me

really want to write the book. It was like, okay, at that point, I thought the book might be about the whole decade. And I was like, okay, this is a pretty interesting capper. I mean, I don't normally give a shit about the Grammys. They don't mean anything to me. But at the same time, when people you know win the biggest one, it feels good. And you're like, how did that happen?

And, you know, they also won the Brit Award that year. They won the Players. They won the Juno. And it felt like, okay, this caps a certain era. This caps a certain time. And so how did that happen? So they were one of the main reasons I wanted to write the book.

And they're one of my favorite bands and still are. That album, Funeral, was mind-blowing when you first heard it. Like, playthrough and just so, just amazing. It had radio hits on it, but it was deeper than that.

Like, it was like, what is this? It's like, yeah, instant. But I mean mean i saw them live so often before it came out so i heard a lot of those songs kind of as they were written and so you know you go to one show you'd be like oh my god that new song jesus christ and then you know a month later like oh my god that song holy cow right um so i can't say i was surprised when I finally heard the record, but it was satisfying to know that they had nailed it. Like they got it. They really captured that

waiting on the lightning and getting it in a bottle. And it didn't stop playing. It played through. An omen! Michael, you need to come back for a fourth appearance. All right. What are we going to talk about next time?

Do you want to kick out more Canada Day jams? Yeah, we'll just do more deep cuts from... Jams for Canada Day. You could come back and do Canada jams for Canada Day. We can talk about this offline. We could do Montreal, Vancouver. We could just... Right. Just do whatever we want it's your show it can't be all Alberta

all the time okay a lot of Alberta here but I will say absolutely love the book so remind everyone the name of the book and where they're going to buy this thing right now Hearts on Fire Six Years of the Change Canadian Music 2005

it's available from ECW Press. You can get it in finer bookstores everywhere. If they don't have it, you can get them to order it. You can order it online and you can listen. Oh, the audio book is coming out sometime this summer. I have one more day of touch-ups to do. I don't know when that drops. Right.

And if you want to listen to a lot of the music we heard today and more, go to michaelbarkley.ca slash playlists. Enjoy the tween web design. Enjoy it. No, the playlists are awesome. The book is awesome. You're awesome. Thanks for doing this.

Thank you. And that brings us to the end of our 1047th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Michael is at 3M, so MMM Barclay. Right? Right. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta.

Sticker U is at Sticker U. Dewar are at Dewar Performance. Ridley Funeral Home are at Ridley FH. And Canna Cabana are at doer performance ridley funeral home are at ridley fh and canna cabana are at canna cabana underscore see you all tomorrow when steve pakin is on the program to deliver your ontario provincial election Oh, you know that's true because everything is coming up rosy and gray. Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow won't speed the day. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray.

Cause everything is rosy and gray. Well, I've been told that there's a sucker born every day. But I wonder who. Yeah, I wonder who. Maybe the one who doesn't realize there's a thousand shades of gray. Cause I know that's true. Yes, I gray cause I know that's true, yes I do I know it's true, yeah I know it's true How about you?

I'm picking up trash and then putting down roads And they're broken stocks, the class struggle explodes And I'll play this guitar just the best that I can Maybe I'm not and maybe I am But who gives a damn because Everything is coming up rosy and gray Yeah, the wind is cold, but the smell of snow warms me today. And your smile is fine, and it's just like mine, and it won't go away. Because everything is rosy and gray.

Well, I've kissed you in France, and I've kissed you in France and I've kissed you in Spain And I've kissed you in places I better not name And I've seen the sun go down on Chaclacour But I like it much better going down on you Yeah you know that's true

Because everything is coming up Rosy and green Yeah, the wind is cold But the smell of snow warms us today And your smile is fine And it's just like mine And it won't go away Because everything is rosy now.

Everything is rosy and everything is rosy and gray. Thank you.