Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Michael Grange: Toronto Mike'd #442

Episode Date: March 20, 2019

Mike chats with Sportsnet's Michael Grange about his years writing for the Globe and Mail, his work at Sportsnet covering basketball, RJ Barrett, the Toronto Raptors and more.

Welcome to episode 442 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, Propertyinthe6.com, Alma Pasta, Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair, Buckle, and Camp Ternasol. Jewelry Repair, Buckle, and Camp Turnasol. I'm Mike from TorontoMike.com, and joining me this week is Basketball Guy for Sportsnet. Is that your official title? That's as good as any other.

Michael Grange. Welcome, Michael. Thanks, Mike. What's your official height? What's it listed at I think 6'2 we'll go with 6'2

6'3 with shoes as they say in the NBA 6'2 without shoes okay because I gave you I felt like maybe too many warnings I'm like

that's too many warnings for Michael like he's not going to hit his head but I give multiple warnings to people much shorter than you, and they still smash their heads. So I felt better safe than sorry.

Yeah, there is a false sense of security. Once you get past the bottom of the stairs, you think you're home free then. Yeah, no, I appreciated the warnings. There's no need to do this with a big gash in my head. Do you know who got a big gash in his head? Damien Cox. Well, he has no hair either to pad.

He's very vulnerable. Oh, I have a song for today. Let me play it while we introduce ourselves here. Do you know this jam? Is it bad if I don't? No. Sounds sort of mid 90s ish maybe maybe it's got that yeah kind of slow build

i think it's probably yeah so the short answer is no this is the gandharvas okay nice and this is first day of spring there we are i can only play it one day a year so excellent choice and then spring delivered today so far yeah i got out there for a ride uh and it's yeah it's i mean we're by the lake so you gotta like i know once you get like north of queen's way it's like everyone's in shorts i'm sure it's basically palm trees but down here we're still wearing jackets but uh i'll take it it's sunny it's nice First day of spring. By the way, Brent,

who's a loyal listener, he sent in a lovely note. He says, Grange is amazing. Like, I don't know if you're related to Brent or not. You're going to have to tell me, but Grange is amazing.

Ask him how he stays so damn lean. Does he run 10 miles a day or something? So what is it like? What's the secret to staying so fit? I am not related to Brent, but that's a nice compliment, I guess. And I don't know. I've always been pretty good with my exercise. Sometimes I have had times where I've run 10 miles in many days.

I've done triathlons in the past. I've done, uh, I've done half marathons, marathons, not so much of that stuff anymore, but I just, you know,

I, I like to exercise. I kind of, kind of, uh, need to. And, uh,

is that because you're on TV? You just don't want to be on TV with like, uh, Oh no, no, no, there's no, not really for me.

It's just more a, I do enjoy it and be it. Uh, you know, it's one of those things when I don me. It's just more a, I do enjoy it. And B it, uh, you know, it's one of those things when I don't, I kind of get a little squirrely of, you know, I always was one of those guys who played a lot of sports and did a lot of never really stopped. And so when I do miss it, I kind of go a little, I go a little strange. So it's important. So it's helpful. It's a good habit. There's worse habits. This is your theme song. So originally I was going to say, you got to open with this. This is LaGrange. Yes. ZZ Top. Can't go wrong with that. It's a ZZ Top around here. Yeah, fine.

Just to correct you. Now, so thanks Brent for that note. And then I got another note like right away from Russ Morgan, who says he's looking forward to it. And he says, you're, you're one of the best at your craft. So are you related to Russ Morgan? I'm not related that I know of, but,

uh, clearly all my, uh, you know, my three fans are also fans of your show. So that's good. I mean, uh,

I would never claim that honor. Obviously there's, uh, you know, there's a lot of really good people, uh, in my line of work in this city, in the country. It's interesting covering the NBA as long as I have. You get kind of exposed to a lot of people across North America. So if someone thinks I'm good, I'm happy, but I would never claim to be the best.

That'd be false. Actually, he did say one of the best. One of the best, yeah, okay, fine. So he's got a little out there. It's one of many, many, many best. How's that? As long as we cast them net wide enough, I'm sure I can squeeze in there.

Now, you mentioned, you know, you're athletic. You run marathons. I have one won. Not plural. Like appearing on a podcast. That's the supposedly fun thing I may do only once. Oh, I did see that tweet from you. I'm like, supposedly?

I've got a great average, like 442 guests, 441 good times. That's pretty good, right? That is very good. Yeah, no, that's good. It's actually one of my favorite writers of all time. It's a guy named David Foster Wallace, who is dead. Well, he took his own life. Yeah, very tragic.

But he wrote a collection of essays called, I think one of the titles of one of the essays, but the overall collection was called A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Only Do Once, I think, is bad with titles and names. But anyway, so it just seemed to fit. He's the Infinite Jest guy, is that right? Right, right.

I saw the movie with the guy from How I Met Your Mother. I didn't, you know, I didn't know there was a movie. And if I were to list a resume of my proudest accomplishments, pretty near the top would be reading that book, which was like 1,100 pages with footnotes and was awesome. Like it was just an incredible, incredible reading experience. Pretty mind blowing at the time. So guys like you, you read the book and guys like me, we see the movie, but it's a good movie for what it's worth. Well, that's good to know. Cause sometimes I shy away when, when it's,

you know, in that kind of, if I've read, especially if I've read the book, I'm kind of, I'm more likely to go see a movie if I haven't read a book. But if I read the know, that kind of, especially if you've read the book, I'm more likely to go see a movie if I haven't read a book, but if I read the book, I kind of shy away because chances are it's not going to match your expectations. Rarely will, yeah. Rarely will. But anyway, that's why I made that tweet. That's a supposedly

fun thing. It's fun so far. Oh, it's early. Like, I'm still warming up here. I'm still, this is early. We're still with theme song. We're still doing LaGrange, that's right. I. Oh, it's early. Like I'm still warming up here. I'm still, this is early. We're still doing LaGrange. That's right. I can't turn it off. It's fantastic.

Um, but you mentioned, you know, being fit and I mentioned the, not the singular marathon, which is impressive to me. It was a terrible experience. That was not fun. I don't recommend it. You finished it. I did. Yeah.

Yeah. And, um, why did you, did you finish it and decide I'll never do this again? No. It was not that much fun because like most things in my life, it didn't quite match my expectations. And I ran around four hours and I thought, well, I was hoping to run around 330 and 340, something like that. Not that these things matter in the midst of time.

It was a long time ago. But, you know, and I remember after that kind of I was – I might have been – it was probably in my late 30s and kind of making up my mind that, you know, there would be time to run other marathons, but my chances of still playing basketball and stuff like that were getting shorter. So I kind of flipped back into playing a lot of men's league basketball at

that time, which was the right decision. It was a lot of fun. Because you played three years, three seasons, I should say of basketball for the Mount Allison university Mounties. That's correct. See, I did my homework here and that's impressive. Deeply researched. Yeah, no, the it's pretty, yeah, I'm, I'm, it was, it was a lot of fun. I, I, the, um, it's pretty, yeah, I'm, I'm, it was, it was a lot of fun. I, I, the only thing I always, uh, when anyone brings that up is, is one, we weren't a very good team. We

played against a lot of outstanding teams. This would have been in the kind of, uh, late eighties and, uh, it played in what was then the Atlantic university, a U S it was called. And, um, you know, so you're playing against Acadia and St. Yves X and Dalhousie and, and, uh, schools like that, UPEI. And, uh, what's sort of interesting about that is, is, um, it was kind of just before this boom in basketball that, um, you know, we've, we're all experiencing. And so it was almost unheard of back then for people to go play in the U.S. And so college basketball, you know, the depth of, I would say right now,

the depth of play overall in Canada at any level is higher than it's ever been. There's no question about that. But at that time, you know, there wasn't many kids going to the U S to play. And, uh, and so in fact, kids, especially in that conference, kids were coming up from the U S to play. And so it was just unbelievably deep and talented. And, and it was, it was kind of awesome to play in that league, even though, like I said, we, we got a hand to do us pretty good most nights. And, uh, and then the only other sad note about it was, I mean, there's not many sad notes about it,

but going into my last year, right around May of that year, they announced at school that they were going to cut back on a whole bunch of their athletic funding, and basketball was one of the ones that got cut. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I never got to play as a senior. But I kind of wonder, had I gone and played, I probably would have played a fifth year, and at Mount A it was a small school,

and the only graduate program that was there, if you were going to stay for five years, was Teachers College. And so I probably would have played a fifth year and I'd probably be a high school teacher somewhere in Nova Scotia, which some of my friends are and it seems like a pretty good life, but I probably wouldn't be doing this. So there you go.

So, so what is it that made you go into journalism? Like what was the catalyst there? That's a good question. Um, kind of weird. Like I, I, um, it was, I, it was always

something I, I was a fan of and really interested in and really, uh, passionate about as a consumer of, you know, I read, um, you know, I read papers, delivered papers, all that same old story. But, but, uh, and I remember just really loving the, what I was reading. And then as I got into university and out of university, especially, uh, really, you know, kind of was reading broader and deeper all the time. And, and I always thought, man, this would just be an incredible thing to do, whether it be for the Globe and Mail or Sports Illustrated or the New Yorker. It didn't have to be sports at all. And I had done some writing at university because this amount of it was so small. It was only about 1,800 students then, and so you could do anything.

And so I would play on the basketball team, and I'd write for the school newspaper, and I'd often write stories about the basketball team that I was playing on for the school newspaper. Stuff like that. It was kind of goofy. The insider. That's right. And I loved it. But it just never really occurred to me as a viable career.

I'm not sure why, but it just seemed like something other people did. And, uh, I needed to get a job. That was sort of my first priority when I finished university, cause I didn't have any, uh, any options to not have a job. So I, um, and so I was in the workforce for three or maybe, I think it was four years and, um, completely different line of work. And, and, uh, but at the time was still getting ever more into reading and, you know, not just reading, but like the craft of writing. And, and I finally said, uh, I needed to change direction and I was going to thought about teacher's college again and thought about law school and um and in the end decided what the hell i'll apply to journalism school and i got in and and uh kind of it kind of happened pretty

quickly after that but uh it was just more just being a little like tired of where what i was doing at the time and uh just feeling finally i guess, brave enough to take a shot at it. Amazing. So I'll bring up a little Curtis Blow basketball. Feel free to dance, Michael. Another classic. Feel free to dance. No, I wouldn't do that, but the, not because I can't.

No, this is anyone who played any basketball in the 80s, 90s would be well familiar with this. This is like the basketball song, right? Like, I don't know. Yeah, it's probably the definitive one. I mean, now there's all kinds of shout outs all the time and everything. But I was thinking the other day, the very first hip hop song I ever heard in my entire life was Rapper's Delight, which doesn't make me unique. I think it was probably for most people. But I remember I went and watched the city championships

at Jarvis Collegiate. And back then they would have the semis and the finals at Jarvis, and it was a huge deal. And a friend of mine's older brother was playing in it. And I remember going into the gym, and it seemed like there was 5,000 people in there. But there was probably like 2,000. But it was packed. Like, people would literally...

That's more people than went to Mount Allison. Yeah, exactly. People would literally be, like, sitting in the weight room and, like, you know, packing every, you know... Nook and cranny? Yeah, it was an amazing environment. And they played Rapper's Delight and it was like, it was like 13 or 12.

I was like, what the heck is this? I've never heard anything like it. That's my first rap song too. I think it is probably for most people because it's probably

the first hit. It's the first commercially viable one, but I mean, it's an amazing song still to this day. Uh-huh, uh-huh. It's like a jungle sometimes.

Absolutely. Right. And then there's Curtis Blow. He's no longer with us. I think he passed away. But he's one of the first rappers, I think, as well. Curtis Blow. But this is a good chance.

I'm going to give you some things right off the top here. All right. I get the gifts. Six pack of fresh craft beer from Great Lakes Brewery. It's more like an eight pack. Because there's sort of these... Tall boys? Yeah. Because I think, pack because there's sort of these... Tall boys? Yeah, because I think, yeah, there's 473 milliliters.

Well, then take two away. I'm giving you four. That's right. I go by volume here. I look forward over my dad body Pilsner. Yeah, that fits. Although you're working very hard at not having a dad body. Well, my kids would tell me otherwise.

I'm not working hard enough because it's not working. It would be their cruel assessment. But yeah, awesome. I love beer. Enjoy. That's brewed locally. You know where the Costco is? I do.

Okay, so it's down the street from the Costco is where great. You can see it from the Gardner, actually. I actually, yeah, I know exactly where it is, actually. So I will. Well, you're going to regret saying that because actually. I actually, yeah, I know exactly where it is actually. So I will. Well, you're going to regret saying that because now I'm going to tell you on June 27th,

you are invited to TMLX3. That's the third Toronto Mike listener experience. And we're going to do it at the patio of Great Lakes Brewery, 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. The, we're going to have the Royal Pains

are going to open. They're a great, they do great 90s covers and then Lowest of the Low are going to play.m. to 9 p.m. We're going to have the Royal Pains. They're going to open. They do great 90s covers. And then Lowest of the Low are going to play. I've heard of them. Fantastic. We're going to close this show with Lowest of the Low. But the first beer is on the house.

And somebody wrote me a nice note, like, do I have to pre-register? And I'm like, no, as long as you are either a listener or a guest. If you're in one of those two categories, just show up at 6 p.m. on June 27th. So, Michael, I'll put you on the guest list. Thank you. We'll get you in. I look forward to it. So now you got your craft beer.

Any of your children of legal drinking age? They are not. But close, maybe? Close, and then I wouldn't put it too far by them. They would claim that they would never touch the stuff. Almost there, almost there. You need to pair it with something. How about a large meat lasagna from Palma Pasta?

Now you're talking my language. So the crowd's going wild. Palma Pasta, they're in Mississauga and Oakville. The Palma's Kitchen, which is their brand new facility, that's near Burnhamthorpe and Mavis, like around there. But go to palmapasta.com to find out exactly how to get there. Yeah, you asked for a meat lasagna. That's a meat lasagna.

Enjoy. Nothing against vegetable lasagna, by the way. I just prefer meat lasagna. It's tastier, right? I don't know if it is. It's not. Why didn't you pick a vegetarian? I have no idea.

It's almost like this weird thing where whenever you're given the choice, I choose meat. That's because we've been programmed to think real men eat meat. This is all part of what we need to wash away. It's all part of my toxic masculinity. I was going to say, right. But enjoy. It is fantastic. You'll have leftovers.

That's how much is there. So enjoy the palma pasta. Enjoy the beer. Let's do a little time machine game I enjoy. So let's go back in time. You're about my age. So you're going to remember 30 years ago. I do.

On this day, 30 years ago, the number one song on the Billboard Hot 100 was this. Start slow, but then... I was going to say, these songs don't exist anymore. We'll let it play a bit and then it'll come to you. Sounds like about 12 songs right now. It's true.

It sounds like the late 80s. I think I've now heard it long enough to know I didn't like it. No, especially at the age you were then, this would be very uncool. Yes. This is like, I think my mom liked this song,

so I knew it wasn't very cool. But this is Mike and the Mechanics. There you go. In the living years, Mike was from Genesis. Mike Rutherford? Oh, I think brady was going on about this on twitter the other day is this the one that's like the saddest hit song of all

time or something it's possible it's very sad yeah uh and brady knows his 80s brady is oddly encyclopedic yeah but once you leave 92 are you sure okay i'll take your word for it but he's been here to kick out the jams brady. And did he get to the 90s? I have to review this after our recording. But he was very 80s heavy. That is for sure. But this is my... It's a nice...

You know what? This was a number one hit. Wow. Before rap and R&B took over the charts. Because today, you can't get to number one unless you're like hip-hop or R&B. Yeah, I guess that's probably true. But yeah, 30 years ago, this song hit number one. 30 years ago this week.

Yeah, you know what? It did not. So 30 years ago is 1989. Oh, yeah. Okay. Do you remember this reframe? Yeah, I do know for sure I didn't like it. I remember thinking, this sucks.

It was 1989. I was 20, 22. Oh, yeah, this would suck. No, I was not listening to anything like this. At the end of this episode, we'll kick out a jam. So you get one jam. What kind of genre were you into? Like, if you had a compartment. Yeah, I mean, I think I was pretty lucky, I'd say.

Like, because we're definitely coming of age musically um you know a couple cool things i guess when i was a teenager like classic rock hadn't been ruined by classic rock radio and i remember specifically classic rock radio being invented and at first going oh this, this is kind of neat. Wow. And then just realizing that they were just like, they play the same 11 songs even now. So they're kind of ruining all these songs that you loved as a kid. But so you kind of grew up with that kind of stuff when it wasn't so classic. It was just what your older brother listened to or something. And then, you know, at university and, you know, in toronto was probably in the 90s uh was just like an amazing

era for can rock right and so uh like the tragically i played at my at mount a like in at a you know a beer garden with like 300 people and um you know so that was that was definitely like that's amazing so that's probably just before or just around when Up To Here comes out and Blow It Out

it would have been it would have been their EP yeah in fact I remember having lunch or breakfast

maybe it was with this stoner guy a buddy of mine at Mount A not that I was much of a stoner but the

but we just had this kind of odd friendship because he was like this really rich stoner whose dad, his family was named after one of the buildings or vice versa. And, you know, and I was not really into those things, but he was good entertainment. I think Greg Weston

was his name. He sounds like a rich guy name. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's a good dude. And I remember we were talking and he was telling me about his name and uh sounds like a rich guy name oh yeah yeah i mean he's good dude and um and and i remember we were talking uh and he was telling me about his buddy who went to he had gone to lower canadian college lcc not not ucc but lcc which i think is the is where you know it's like home to people like him and anyway and i think it was either either Paul Lama or I think it was one of those two. And, and yeah, I got these buddies, they're in a band. You got to check them out when you go back to Toronto.

And I remember going to see, going to the El Macombo. And it was, they were playing upstairs at the El Macombo. And I remember, and I, that, that I remember I was living in a little apartment, not an apartment, a room on College Street, and kind of went around the corner, and I go check these guys out. I'd seen it in Now magazine, and I go upstairs,

and there's a band playing, and they were terrible. I was like, these guys suck. And I'm like, wow, this is brutal. But it just turned out to be like the last couple of songs of the opener. And then the hip come on and it was like, wow, it was pretty amazing. And so, you know, so it felt like it was there for all the beginning of that. And Blue Rodeo would come to, we were doing campus tours back then

and Lowest of the Low and, you know, just the whole gamut. So that was- You were singing my song, Mike. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. It was a fun time to be, to like getting drunk and go watch rock bands. You just missed the Gandarvas.

It just escaped your wheelhouse. Yeah, yeah. Well, my. Unlike Greg, my window slams shut in about 2001, which just seems to be when my daughter was born. I don't know if there's a coincidence. That's funny. I find most of what I go to now

is recorded in the 90s. I don't know what that says about me, but maybe it's my failure to grow as a person. I have no idea, but I'm still kind of stuck listening to 90s jams. but I should tell everybody, Oh, first I should tell you if you want a good, tragically hip story,

like origin story and talk to Mike Hogan, who, who, a big guy. Yeah. He, he'll tell you stories about these guys in high school. Like he knew that in high school,

which is kind of remarkable, but everybody should know that. Remember the time is brought to you by fast time, watch and jewelry repair. They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years. But everybody should know that Remember the Time is brought to you by Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair. They've been doing quality watch and jewelry repairs for over 30 years. You might remember them, Michael. If you needed to get a battery replaced or something repaired, you went to Sears, and they had the watch repair place. Well, Sears left the country, and Fast Time, who were always there doing that under the name Sears, just opened up their own location.

So you can go to FastimeWatchRepair.com for a location near you. If you mention that you heard about Fastime on Toronto Mic'd, they'll give you 15% off any regular priced watch battery installation. And later in the show, Milan from Fastime has a question for you. So later when we get to the Raptors section, he'll chime in with a question for you.

Now, the Globe and Mail is probably Canada's most prestigious newspaper. I'm sure people at the Toronto Star would argue with that, but I mean, it was, yeah, it argue with that but I mean it's you know it was yeah it was

it still is but I mean it was it was 150, 100 odd years of history whatever yeah pretty amazing place and even like whenever you do those tests like like what level what reading level is this written on at or whatever and they do that like they'll take the sun it's like oh it's for like grade 2 or whatever and then

the star well that's for grade 5 and they'd be oh but the'll take the sun and it's like, oh, it's for like grade two or whatever. And then they'll go to the star. Well, that's for grade five. And they'd be, oh, but the Globe and Mail is like grade nine. You know what I mean? And I made up those numbers. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, I do. Yeah. So yes, I did start my journalism career at the Globe and Mail. And I was, and yeah, there were definitely some, it was a pretty amazing place to work. So how did you get yourself into the Globe and Mail? Well, cause that's a pretty interesting place to start.

Yeah, no, my, uh, my, uh, entrance into this business is, uh, a little bit probably different than the most, like I said, I worked i worked uh my first job after university was i was a i was actually worked at a meat packing plant and then uh then i my next job was was as a doorman and then and then i you know graduated in bartending and then after about a year that and then finally i was working for the city of toronto as a as a welfare worker that was it was during the recession and that was kind of the only place that was hiring at the time. And a pretty weird experience being a, you know, 23, 24 year old trying to decide if people should get a welfare check or not,

or, you know, kind of, uh, counseling. That's no fun. It was, uh, it was a very, uh, eyeopening experience. And, um, you know, there was good and good parts and bad to it, but some wild stories, but the, um, anyway, and so, and so I decided I, I didn't mind the job really. And it just didn't have any much room to advance in. And I mean, it was a union job at, you know, nine to five paid. okay. And all that, but I, you know, I didn't, at that time, wasn't ready to commit to it for the next 30 years.

Although now that I'd be retired, I'm kind of going, maybe that would have been a good idea. But, um, and so I, I decided to go to journalism school and I'd taken some writing classes and stuff and had done okay. And, uh, and so I went to Western for a year. They had a 12 month master's program. And, uh, I think it was, I think the oldest or one of the oldest kids in the, in the program and kid people. And, and I just, so I was very, very determined. Like I was funding this thing myself, I'd quit a good job. And so I was very conscious of, you know, I better make this work or else what a waste of time and money. And, uh, and, and, you know, but it's funny how luck works. And literally I believe my two things I recall from my first day at school, and I'm probably

conflating a bit, but one was a veteran print journalist from at the time the London Free Press coming in and telling us we were all doomed. Even back then they were. Even back then. I'm pretty sure every veteran print journalist since about 1939 has told that to the incoming generation of journalists.

So it's just a tradition that gets passed along. But at the same time, we got our first assignment. Our first assignment was you'd literally reach into a hat. They passed around a hat and you pulled out a name and you were supposed to write an 800-word profile on whoever came out of your name. And it was sort of semi-prominent people in the London community.

And I got this name, Martha Henry was the name. And I, do you know anything about Martha Henry? Nothing. Exactly, yeah. No, I had like zero idea who this person was. Would you be impressed though if I told you, of course, Martha Henry. Well, maybe. I mean, you know, the, and it turns out Martha Henry was,

I think she was the theater director of the equivalent of, you know, whatever the main theater in London was, you know, the equivalent of the O'Keeffe or whatever here in Toronto. And so, you know, what did I know about theater? Zero, you know, so, okay, whatever. And so I reach out to her and we arranged this interview and, uh, it turns out that she was, had, had this incredible career at Stratford. that she was, had, had this incredible career at Stratford. She was older. She was probably, I mean, I'm going to say in her 60s maybe, and had had a falling out at the Stratford Festival, like some hugely controversial like arts, you know, drama.

Scandal. Scandal, yeah, literally. And so, and so she hadn't performed there for like 15 or 20 years. And, and this was going to be her first year back this upcoming season. So this is in May, the journalism program went May till May. So this is this coming summer that was, was going to be her return. And she told this fantastic story. So there's this whole arc to it and everything. And, and so I wrote it and, uh, you know, and, and, and it was pretty good, I thought. And so I kind of, I had a friend, a neighbor whose wife worked at the Globe and Mail. And I kind of, and she kind of, I think she kind of encouraged me that it could be interesting to somebody at the paper.

And so I faxed it. Like I got the name of the arts editor and I faxed it, like I got the name of the arts editor and I faxed it and it was totally a cold call, you know, just, okay, well sure. We'll take a look. And they published it. Wow. Yeah. Like they paid me for it and everything. And that was like literally the first assignment I'd ever done in that program. And so I was published in the Globe and Mail. I mean, wow, this is pretty cool. And then later that year, it was the year there was an NHL lockout in 94, 95. And my girlfriend at the time, her brother was buddies with Eric Lindros. And so the lockout was going on and on and on. And, and, and Lindros at the time, he's

probably, I don't know, two or three years into his career, I think. And he had moved to London to, and this is kind of like a rumor around town. Like it wasn't like reported anywhere. He had moved to London to live with his buddies, university age buddies. And he was skating with the Western hockey team. And he was skating with the Western hockey team. And he was actually taking a couple of courses and staying in shape. And so I kind of reached out to my, you know, this friend, my girlfriend's brother and said, look, could you put me in touch with Eric? And, you know, it'd be, and again, this was an assignment for a school assignment. I had to write a sports story actually. Right. And so, so yeah, whatever. So I ended up meeting

him and Eric was like, you know, I think we were playing yeah, whatever. So I ended up meeting him and Eric was like, you know, I think we were playing pool or something. So I said what I wanted to do. He was like, okay, sure. And so we, we, we meet at the campus pub at Western the next day and he was great. Really, uh, really nice to me and very accommodating. And we, I went and saw the house he was living with his buddies on campus. He was just like very much wanting to live that student lifestyle that he'd given up or missed out on because of hockey. Right. And so again,

I talked to his dad and wrote it all up and, and, um, and again, I thought it was pretty good, you know, like I was, thought it was fairly confident with it.

And, and so, and I, and I read, this is when I talked to my, my, my, I took some advice and and i said well i'd already had something published in the globe like let's name a little bigger sort of you know you're kind of stupid unless you're you know naivety is great right ignorance

is bliss yeah something like those and so i remember like phoning and again i look back on this how does this even happen i called the sports editor at the New York Times. Wow. And I'm looking back going like, what would happen today if you called it? It's like, you wouldn't, there's no such thing. No one would ever answer the phone. Anyway, so this guy named Jay Schreiber picks up the phone. And it might not have been him.

It might have been somebody, you know, but they put me through to Jay Schreiber. That's my New York accent. And I told him what I was doing and who I was. And he says, yeah, sure. I fax it. So I faxed in this, this school assignment to the New York times and they ran it. They, yeah. And, and the craziest thing about that story is I negotiated more than they initially offered. Yeah. This wouldn't happen today. No, which, if I look back at my history of negotiating, is like the only time I've ever won a negotiation.

So I think I got paid like, I don't know, 400 bucks US, but it ran on the back page of the Sunday New York Times, probably 1,200 words. Wow. And it was awesome, you know. And that wasn't, you know, and I did well at school, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And so they had. Well, you could clearly, you could write.

Like you were, you had a skill. I guess I did, yeah. You could write and tell stories. Right. And so how I ended up in the Globe was in that time, they did have internship programs. A lot of the major papers did. programs. A lot of the major papers did. And, um, not surprisingly, I think in retrospect, the kid who had the byline in the New York times and the Globe and Mail while he was still in journalism school did, did get a few summer job offers. And so I, I took the one at the Globe and,

uh, and, uh, yeah, that was 1990, 95. Yeah. 95. Yeah. So something else happens that year. Okay. So, um, the, that's a long story,

but that's how I ended up at the globe is just in the summer. Usually, you know what, usually the more interesting thing is how I ended up getting the internship, I guess. Which, yeah. And speaking of internship.

So, uh, last week I had Laura Armstrong in here and she's at the star covering the Jays now. And she got in, she was the last person in under the internship program. And then it disappeared. Yeah. I'm not sure I could stand to be corrected. I don't know if the Globe has one.

You know, that whole world has changed so much. Obviously, there's no real point in going down that rabbit hole. But it was. Except it is a shame because look at the opportunity it presented. It was unbelievable. I mean, they were incredibly hard to get. And, and then, and it was kind of like, like survivor, right? Cause I think there was maybe usually about 10 a summer at the globe anyway. And then like, you know, it wasn't like all 10 got hired. Right.

So it was, it was kind of like this competition all summer. And then, uh uh and i think i didn't i ended up i ended up i think having three summer internships in a row they were so they did like to like me they wanted to keep me around but they couldn't because of union rules they couldn't actually hire me so it was all kind of it took a while but i ended up sticking in there who was at the globe at the time is there anybody specific who can shout out for either, maybe not necessarily being a mentor, but being somebody you look up to?

Well, I would say this. It was like mind-blowing. And again, how much this translates to people now where, you know, that appointment, anyone who was into sports or news or journalism period had with their morning paper,

their daily paper. I don't know if it quite exists anymore. Um, but you've developed these incredible attachments and, and they were like stars in your eyes, right? So you'd, you know, I'd read Steven Brunt literally almost every day since, uh, you know, since, since he started writing the paper. And, uh, and, and so you were all of a sudden, you were working with these people who you just, they'd been heroes and just loomed huge.

And, you know, Jan Wong. You know, I remember my first summer, I think the people who I sat in a row with were, I think Jan Wong was sitting in there. I think Murray Campbell, I sat in a row with were, I think, Jan Wong was sitting in there. I think Murray Campbell, who's an amazing writer, who covered Queen's Park forever, amazing feature writer. But I do, you know, Steve Brunt was in sports,

and eventually I moved into sports, and our sports section was super, super deep and good with Jeff Blair and Al um, Al Mackey and Dave Naylor. And, you know, I'm going to forget a bunch of guys. And, and, and so I won't go name them all. Rob McLeod was a great friend and mentor to me. And, and anyway, but I remember my first day at the office, uh, a guy named Kirk Macon was, um, I think I was sitting in his desk or I was sitting next to his desk and, um, Kirk was covering the Bernardo trial and to say he was covering the Bernardo trial under Selsa, like he was one of a small handful of people who committed years of their

lives to covering that whole affair. And I remember at the time you could kind of look in the Globes editorial system. It was, it was almost like a public access system. So he could see what anyone else was writing at any given time. And I remember watching him in real time, cause it was my first day. I didn't really have anything to do watching him in real time, like write like a 4,000 word story about some explosive day at the bernardo trial and i was like uh i think i'm way in over my head here man these guys are like second level and and uh so it was it was an amazing experience my first three years there i i didn't really write sports i was in news and business and these people were, uh,

you know, they were just amazing to, to be around and learn from. Was David Schultz there at the time? Dave Schultz. Yeah. That's why I didn't stop naming people because no, Schultz, he was there and, and, uh, just, you know, just a super fun guy to, we sat across each other back when people would go in the office and had phones and things. We'd sit across from the office, and I remember Dave, around 4 o'clock he'd get on the phone, and he'd have to be chiding his kids through all their homework assignments and stuff, and just a really fun friend, good dude.

Was there any evidence that David Schultz could be a stand-up comic? Was there any evidence of this? Yeah, I'd say, yeah, no, he was pretty, he was great with one-liners. He was, he was, had that kind of like Rodney Dangerfield thing going. So, unfortunately, I haven't gone out to see his show, him and Gare Joyce.

Gare Joyce, I worked with at the Globe as well. Amazing talent. Well, those two gentlemen, so I, earlier I promoted this third Toronto Mic listener experience. And the second one featured stand-up by David Schultz and Gare Joyce at Great Lakes Brewery. And how was it? I would say Gare seemed a bit more polished. Although he went heavy on the Steve Bannon material.

That's because he's a Steve Bannon impersonator. Right, exactly. And it's funny, because then recently I went to... He might have missed his window. That could have been good, but that's fine. I think the window's closed.

You're absolutely right. But coincidentally, like recently I was at Mark Hebbshire. Mark Hebbshire wrote a book, The Greatest Athlete You've Never Heard Of. And I went to the book launch and Gere Joyce did stand-up there. And half of his stand-up was the same routine he

did at my show. So gear needs to get writing, I think on some new material, but I will say this, David Schultz made me laugh out loud. Like I thought he was pretty funny. No, I would see him being funny. He's definitely irreverent. And, uh, and so yeah, short answer. Yeah. I could see him pursuing that as a, as a bit of a passion slash hobby. Yeah. So yeah, I could see him pursuing that as a bit of a passion slash hobby. It's interesting that Brunt, who, I mean, Brunt might be, he might be the primo with the big cheese, like when it comes to sports journalism in this country.

I don't know if it gets much better. Yeah, I mean, his career is pretty close to unrivaled. That's very safe to say. Brunt and Blair and gear Joyce and yourself, just, just four guys who were, you know, at newspapers in the nineties, uh, Globe and Mail of all places and, uh, are now at Sportsnet. So it's just interesting how the, uh, Dave Naylor was there as a TSN. So yeah. Yeah. It's just the way the business kind of flipped.

Absolutely. Um, so I want to get you to Sportsnet, but first I'm going to ask you, let me play some Nana Muscuri here. Is this a tribute to me or anything? Do you like Nana Muscuri? No. And let me guess, what's the one thing you think of

when you think of Nana Muscuri? Honestly, nothing. Nothing, okay. Usually it's glasses. Yeah, it's glasses. So yeah, this is Nana Musiri, and I'm playing it. By the way, do any of your children speak French? Both my kids went through French immersion to a point,

and then decided, you know what, I'm going to opt for a different direction. Now, they might have aged out of this, but for children aged 4 to 14 there are french camps in the gta from camp ternesol they've been providing french camps since 2001 they've got 15 campuses across the gta if you go to camp t.ca you can learn about all their programs there's overnight programs there's camps. There's programs for francophone kids and French immersion kids and kids of no French experience. They have a brand new eco-friendly camp called Love My Planet that's been just introduced for 2009. So go to campt.ca.

Check out what they offer there. These are the best French camps in Ontario. You can get, for a limited time, you can save money if you use the promo code Mike2019. So Mike2019. You get $20 off your first order. And check them out. Yeah, Camp Tournesol. They were sponsors last spring,

and it worked out so well. They came back, which is encouraging news. So check out Camp Ternasol. All right, Michael, why are you no longer at the Globe and Mail? Actually, yeah, let's do that. Let's get you to Sportsnet, and then I want to, when I do a little, I need to talk about some raptors that was happening while you were at the Globe. But why do you eventually leave the Globe and Mail?

while you were at the Globe. But why do you eventually leave the Globe and Mail? I was, I guess it was, I was part of the consortium that got put together to cover the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver, which was a pretty amazing experience. And coming out of that, Keith Pally left TSN to, or left the consortium. He had already left TSN, I guess.

And he went, he was hired by Rogers Media to kind of grow that business. And Scott Moore, who was kind of his right-hand man, you know, kind of, it became known that they were really trying to grow out this multi-platform idea, which had sort of had a bit of a debut at the Olympics where people like myself, and Brent a lot more notably than I ever did, you know, would write and do some video and do some other kind of projects. And so, you know, so I kind of got wind of that and it sounded like a neat opportunity. And I'd been at the globe for a long time at that point and, and was a little bit kind of looking for something different and reached out to Scott and, uh, you know, I said,

look, I don't know what you're exactly what you might be looking for, but I'd be interested in talking and, and what they were looking for were people who could, um, who had a little bit of a profile. I, I, you know, at that time I was doing, uh, you know, I was still doing, doing a fair bit of radio and things like that. I wasn't quite, uh, you know, I wouldn't say it was high profile, but you know, I had enough of one, I guess. And, um, and, and somebody, so people that they could have on television, on radio, right, and multi-platform is the idea. And so there's a bit of back and forth. And truth be told, I don't think I was the first choice for the job.

But, you know, I ended up getting hired. And I think it's going to be eight years this May, which is incredible that it's flown by that quickly. And it was a great decision. I mean, it was just, it was, I'm not saying it was a great decision by them to hire me, but it was a great decision by me to do it because it was, it opened up kind of a whole new avenue for me. And, and as much as, you know, there's still things I miss about being at the Globe and all of that, but, but it was, that was sort of how it happened. It's just they were trying to do what Sportsnet has done, which is kind of create an all-encompassing brand

and reach for people in all kinds of platforms. And, you know, it's hard to argue they haven't done a great job of it. Well, without a doubt, Rogers owns lots of things. It's funny we're talking today, though, because today they completed the sale of their magazines. I did see that. Yeah, I got an email. To St. Joseph's Media, which owns Toronto Life.

In fact, listeners of the show know they also, that's the umbrella that 1236 is under with the email stuff, so speaking to the listeners. But it's interesting because at the beginning you had an actual dead tree Sportsnet magazine. That's right. Yeah, it's interesting because at the beginning, you had an actual like dead tree Sportsnet magazine. That's right.

Yeah, it's funny you remember that. I mean, that was also part of the, it wasn't there right away. It was something in the works. And so I think that was another reason they were interested in. And I think at the time, I remember signing my contract

and literally the next, the day before they had sort of finalized this magazine thing so that they had to like wait out some stuff in my contract and include the next, the day before they had sort of finalized this magazine thing so that they had to like wait out some stuff in my contract and language around it. But, but yeah, so that, the Sports Time magazine was amazing. And, uh, that was, I wrote, I remember writing a feature in the debut issue on Tristan Thompson and, um, you know, when it lasted, it was awesome. Like it was an amazing experience to work for it. And, and one of the most, uh, kind of rewarding things I did was, was, um, I wrote a, what

are we called? Kind of a reported column for the magazine. And, and the, the word space was very tight. It was around 750, 800 words, which is, it's pretty short if you're not just trying to take, do a take, like you're actually trying to report and get some background and voices and things. And, and so, you know, you do it every two weeks and then it became monthly, but, um, and so you kind of, they had to be a bit timeless. So it was, it was very challenging to kind of come up with topics that were, would sort of last in an issue. And, and then,

and then kind of you, I felt like I would do as much reporting to do them as I would for something that was going to be 5,000 words, but then you'd whittle it down to 8,000 and Craig Battle or 800 to Craig Battle, who was the editor on a lot of those did a good, did some amazing work, but it was,

you know, those were, those are some of the most rewarding things I wrote, um, ever really some of them. And, um, I remember sitting down things I wrote ever, really, some of them. And I remember sitting down with Joe Siddle, the Blue Jays broadcaster, after, I think it was probably a bit of a year after his son passed away, and just talking to him about that in a breakfast shop and just other stories like that,

but some of them jump out, and it was great, and then you do these big reads, which we still do online, and they were always really, really rewarding as well. It makes all the sense in the world. If you have people like yourself

and Jeff Blair and Stephen Brunt, and I'm thinking, Gare Joyce, what a fantastic writer Gare Joyce is. He's a savant. He might be the biggest gap between talent and name recognition that we have in the market.

Yeah, although within, that's, yeah, you might be right in terms of people, you know, because he's not a radio guy,

he's not a TV guy, he's, you know, but if you were to look at his accomplishments in terms of awards won he's you know but if you were to look at his accomplishments in terms of awards won and you know publications and you know

he would probably he's probably won more national newspaper awards I think than anyone or national magazine awards I should say and when I say savant it's he's one of these guys it just always seemed to come so incredibly easy to him. And he could boil down any story idea into like, you know,

three sentences in two minutes. Oh, he's very talented. Yeah, amazing, amazing guy. And he's finally cashing in because Jason Priestley's private eyes has been picked up again. I don't know if you've ever had Gare on or not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but his mystery series. Oh, the hockey player ever had Garon. Yeah. But his mystery series.

Oh, the hockey player. The hockey scout. They're great. They're really, really good. Yeah, I would recommend them to anybody. Yeah, he kicked out the jams, actually. Brunt, you know, if you're ever bored, Brunt kicking out the jams is an education.

Yeah, it would be. Because he's got that whole Newfoundland festival. Right. Woody Point. Woody Point, yeah. It's just, anyway, if you're ever looking to kill an hour to do that. But yeah, so having all these fantastic writers under the Rogers umbrella, it would make sense.

The magazine made all the sense in the world. Yeah, and it was a huge success. I mean, critically anyway. I mean, they won awards. It was a great publication. No one had ever done that in Canada on the sports front for any kind of length of time successfully and launched the careers of a lot of really good young people.

And, you know, and it just kind of fell. Look, you know, the economics of this business. Well, it sounds now like looking at it through today's lens, if you will, thatgers wanted to maybe start start us leaving the print magazine world yeah and they've been yeah and i mean like you know these are decisions way above my pay grade they've been trending that way for a while and um you know and and it's it's just it just is the way it is but um you know it's it's i would say like i mean i i'm not one of these people to say that because things have gone digital so aggressively that journalism

or reading or the quality of writing is somehow uh you know i think the environment's maybe richer than it's ever been uh both locally and nationally and internationally. But the one thing you kind of miss and I'm kind of grateful to have and have had exposure to was, you know, in a print environment, both newspaper-wise and at the magazine, because real estate was so valuable and finite, a lot of thought and planning went into how it was going to be used.

And that, you know, and, and that discipline of, um, you know, trying to really think about that and, and, and why something was worth more real estate than in terms of word count than another, I think was a really good exercise to get exposed to and imposed a discipline on writers and editors. And the one thing about newspapers, and to the extent of magazine too, is because so much of that pre-planning goes on, there is an effort to kind of identify, identify agendas and create agendas. And I mean that in a positive way, um, about pushing news and pursuing news and pursuing ideas and, and things like that. Not that those things don't happen digitally, but they tend to

happen a little bit organically and, and, and, uh, you know, um, you know, because, because there's always a little bit more space or there's, you know, the deadline is always a little different. It doesn't have quite the same, that same rigor to it. Okay, so you do multiple things. I mean, people see, you're in my living room all the time. Like, so you're, you know, and I mean that on the television. Metaphorically, yeah, okay. Just to be clear there.

Like, okay, so let's just run down the list of what you're doing at like Rogers right now. You can do it, I guess. Sure, yeah. I mean, it's funny because the job's changed, right? Because when I got there in 11, you know, the fact that I was so identified with basketball was a good thing, but it wasn't why I was hired.

It was actually hard to be more kind of a general presence. And I was actually hired there before Brunt and, and they kind of looked at me as somebody who could do a lot of what Brunt did. And, and there was, there was a lot of exposure on, on primetime sports and,

and, you know, I covered a lot of Leafs. I covered a lot of Jays and, which was great. It was, it was kind of, and I,

and the Raptors were so bad in that stretch. It was like just probably their lowest, not their lowest ebb, because I do remember their lowest ebbs, but it was definitely where they were really struggling kind of for relevance. Is this when our star was Andrea Bargnani? Yeah, yeah, this would be...

Post-Bosch? Yeah, it was pre, pre... DeRozan? Like the end of Brian Colangelo, pre, post-Bosch, pre-DeRozan. And so, yeah, it was just really kind of a hollow period. And so I would occasionally do Raptors. And then, you know, we beefed up in terms of staffing.

Like Chris Johnson got hired, and so we had a more dedicated beliefs guy. And then same on the baseball side, the Jays started getting good. So we kind of staffed up for that too. And then around 2013-14, the Raptors made the playoffs. Wow. Very surprising. And, you know, so there's a lot of excitement around that. And then, as we know, year by year since, the whole, you know, focus has kind of grown.

And I'd say the last two, three years, it's just become almost my full-time job where I do, you know, I do Raptors podcasts whenever we have them. And do a lot of Raptors stuff, even on, you know, period, on TV. And then write about it. Probably ends up being about 80% of what I write about maybe more sometimes. And, uh, which is great cause it's been a fun ride, but, uh, but it's, it's sort of, that's, it's just funny the way things change. Yeah, absolutely. I'd say, uh, speaking on behalf of fans, uh, you're Mr. Basketball. So, uh, yeah, no, but I mean, it's, it's's it's funny because i've written about everything

and and and all of that but but it's good i guess to be known for something and and it's certainly not uh it's i would say for somebody to identify me with the raptors and with basketball in this you know city slash country or whatever it's like a huge a huge, I couldn't be more honored because it's been a huge part of my life. No, there's worse things to be recognized for. Come on, there's much worse than that. But before I forget, Gerald, I wanted to say, he said when you were coming on, he wanted me to, he said, don't forget to wear your Kobe Bryant jersey.

Now, I'm not wearing a Kobe Bryant jersey, but I did pull a clip here, so very short clip. This would be 18 for 20 from the Lions and an 81-point game, 55 in the second half. Ladies and gentlemen, you have witnessed the second greatest scoring performance in NBA history. I can't remember who that was against. I do remember.

Funny enough, I watched that game at the airport Marriott in Los Angeles because I wasn't, again, another low ad for the Raptors, and I was covering a golf tournament at the time. But, yeah, that's not the Kobe Bryant clip I was expecting. Okay. Well, hey, which one should I have played? Too late now. Well, it's funny. I've become known for the guy who hates Kobe Bryant. And there may be some evidence that Kobe Bryant hates me, which is kind of funny. Oh, you know what? I wish one of the thousand times I said, hey, anyone get a question?

I wish somebody had tipped me off to pull that clip. Well, I'm sure the reason, you know, first of all, for the record, I don't hate Kobe Bryant. Like I, but I sort of, for whatever reason, certainly in the last half of his career, last third of his career, I guess, you know, this myth built around him as a player. And it sort of became, you know, this myth built around him as, as a player. And it sort of became, you know,

there would be Michael Jordan and then LeBron and Kobe and, you know, he would just sort of got lumped in with all the, all these, you know, the top three, four or five players in the NBA. And, and I was like, I don't think he's that. Well, I'm with you. Yeah. And, uh, you know, and, know, and especially in his last season. So a couple of funny things happened. And his last season, especially when he was,

a couple of things really kind of rubbed me the wrong way. One was when Steve Nash went to play in L.A. and Kobe, you know, decided to play point guard all of a sudden. And so I remember going, I was writing a feature on Nash at the time and being at, uh, at the Staples Center and watching and literally Kobe Bryant turned Steve Nash into a shooting guard. So you're, so you had like the greatest point guard, arguably, you know, one of the greatest point guards arguably ever. And,

and all of a sudden he was standing in the corner and kobe ryan was running pick and roll it was just a weird thing and and i and so that always kind of he's just so his personality was just so like he just devoured things and people and teams and environments and then his last season you know he had all kinds of injuries his last three years but his last year in particular he was terrible like he was a his last three years, but his last year in particular, he was terrible. Like he was a object. Like he was statistically like the worst player in the NBA. One of the worst players,

one of the worst seasons anyone's ever had in the NBA. And, you know, and he kept just subjecting himself to the Lakers and their young players. And there was just zero modesty about the whole thing. And he had this crazy farewell tour. And I remember when he came to Toronto, I just said, you know, I kind of had enough.

I was like this, you know, and I just kind of did a deep dive into all his numbers. And I just said, you know what, this guy's really good. The main reasons he's really good is because he had a peak that was about 15 years long. But his peak was never that great. Like it was never as good as, and I listed all these other players and why.

And, uh, I remember going to the press conference after his last game in Toronto and, uh, Kobe saying, I asked a question of him and I think the headline on my article was long lines of, you know,

the most overrated player ever. It was like, I didn't write that line. It was a bit much, but, and Kobe saying something along the lines of, you know, well, yourated player ever or something. It was like, I didn't write that line. It was a bit much. But and Kobe was saying something along the lines of, you know, well, I don't care. You can write whatever bullshit article you want. And he was looking right at me. And I have no

idea if he actually had read the article that, you know, or it was just a strange coincidence that he happened to be staring at me. I mean, I answered the question, but that he answered it that way, it seemed a bit coincidental. If you ever come back to kick out the jams, I'll have that clip ready.

The bigger thing that happened was last year in the playoffs when people were debating LeBron, Michael, blah, blah, and Kobe tweeted something along saying, listen, why are we debating about this you

know and enjoy michael six enjoy lebron's five enjoy my five enjoy michael six enjoy my five enjoy uh lebron's three in other words he just injected himself in this debate like it was like no one thought you were one of the best one of the two best of all time. And so I kind of retweeted it very snidely. And he retweeted me. And he's got, I don't know, like maybe 10 million Twitter followers. And it was just a complete Twitter bomb. Like, and he was, you know, look at this asshole was basically his tweet. And for about three days, I was just besieged by people who are very, very loyal to Kobe.

I think it's an age thing, right? Like, because you and I, we were there for Jordan. Right. just besieged by people who are very, very loyal to Kobe. I think it's an age thing, right? Like, because you and I, we were there for Jordan. Right. And then I'll speak for myself that I thought Jordan was the greatest player of all time. And until at some point, I think when LeBron won that third championship, the one with Cleveland, where it's like, wait a minute,

this guy might be better than Jordan. Like, so it's all, of course, very fun debates, bar room debates, whatever. But Kobe's never been, in my mind, has never been in that conversation. Right, and younger people do kind of want their, you know, they believe he is. And like, believe me,

I don't go down this road very often anymore, but I would be, I would, look at the numbers is all I'd say. Numbers don't lie. Numbers don't lie. You mentioned Steve Nash. Yes. First, I'll play this just to hear the call,

but of course the visual is important, which you can't see. 110 to 102. Nash goes down. Wheels in the corner. What a pass. Hill with a three. You talk about a great assist.

It's a five-point game. That was an amazing assist over his right shoulder, and then Grant hits his second three in a row. Unbelievable assist. Again, this is audio. It doesn't do it justice. But that was par for the course with Steve Nash. I want to hear you. First of all, T.O. Resident is a gentleman who wanted to make sure I had a good Steve Nash question. And I just, you wrote a, you wrote a book on that.

I co-wrote a book with Dave Faschuk and we, Dave and I wrote, co-wrote two books together. Actually, this was the second one. And yeah, it was just kind of an exploration into how this guy completed what, you know, is almost inarguably one of the most amazing journeys in the history of Canadian sports. And I really felt like, you know, the, the, our thesis, I guess, or one of the things we pursued in the book was, you know, you know, this guy was basically an astronaut, right?

Like literally there've been more people, more Canadians in space than there have been, have got to the heights that Steve Nash reached as a basketball player. And I always thought it was really interesting, you know, and from the point of view of Canada as a basketball country, and it's very relevant, even gets more relevant every year it seems, is, you know, if you were to take Nash and Gretzky,

you know, Gretzky's kind of, he's like the Pied Piper of hockey, right? Like he, or the John the Baptist, I guess, one of those analogies. But, you know, he left the wilds of Canada and took what was most precious to us, to the world, to the United States, and kind of as a cultural export, right?

And kind of invited everybody to say, look, this is what Canada is about. And, and, you know, rightfully deserve it's a ton of credit for the way that hockey is taking root in, in non-traditional markets. And, you know, it's an amazing feat, you know, but, but I think where Nash really stands out. And I think all the people have come on the basketball side after him that really stand out is they're like, okay, well, how does a Canadian go and participate in a more global world conversation?

And, you know, after soccer, there's no doubt that basketball is the most global sport in the world. And for a Canadian to say, you know what, we're going to go out and see how far we can get in something where people from Russia are trying to play, Brazil, China, let alone the United States, and to make it as far as he did is an amazing thing. And I think it's, to me, they're the two bookends of the Canadian sports story.

And my 14-year-old daughter likes to joke about the fact that, I think maybe we're going back to 2006. But anyway, Steve Nash was coming to Toronto to play the Raptors, and I got us all tickets. Wow, good for you. Super dad. Yeah, well, because at the time, I had two kids at the time, and I told them both,

you need to see the greatest basketball player. You need to see this, okay? So this was a big deal, and I sold them both, you need to see the greatest basketball player. You need to see this, okay? So this was a big deal and I sold them on it. They thought they were going to, I don't know, see like someone was going to walk on water or whatever. And they enjoyed the game. They got to see Steve Nash play. The joke is though,

he went on to play like four or five more years. Like I thought he was winding down and he kept going. Yeah, he kept going and it kind of ended up not that great, sort of at the end for him. and you know the people the thing that people uh a lot of Kobe fans who hate Steve Nash because he what he did with the Lakers um for Gadd is is he you know he complete fluke injury and broke his leg in that first year with the Lakers and and that kind of set off all these other issues he was having he'd always had with his with his back and and his central nervous system really and and he could never quite get back to that level I always have said that had he not had that injury you know

he would have been a good 25 minute a game point guard right right up till he was 40 and um you know so it's a little disappointing i know it's very disappointing for steve how things ended up but um you know his career was was uh you know it's well in terms of canadian basketball it's second to none and will remain that way probably arguably forever like it it'll be pretty amazing to think as much talent is, is coming and has shown up since that another Canadian will be, um, you know, I was sold name and,

and, and two time MVP and a hall of famer and, and get credited voice. Steve does with reshaping the game. I mean, it's almost inconceivable that could ever happen. Well, that's Barrett,

right? This is RJ here. Yeah. Yeah. RJ is, RJ is the next in line to kind of get a crack at it. And, uh, you know, I just did a big feature on him for a big read, which would have been a feature story in the magazine had it did it, if it had still existed, but remember if it had, if it still

existed, it would now be owned by St. Joseph's media. That's right. Well, I would never, I wouldn't have written it, but, um, but anyway, so, uh, yeah, so RJ Barrett's, um, you know, he's one of many really. And, and he's kind of, he's, he's a little unique because, um, you know, I've, I've written about so many of these guys over the years, especially around this time of year around March Madness. And, and I vividly, vividly remember, um, you know, I could talk about this for hours really, but the, you know, just the way, as I said, like at the top, the top going to watch these high school championships tournaments when I was a kid in Toronto. And it was, it was really just the sport was just breaking in terms of it's so new. It wasn't new, but it was just, it was just beginning to evolve with the whole immigrant experience in the city and the country and, and how it was really taking root in different ways.

And, you know, and for a long time, there was no different infrastructure around it. It really was guys just kind of rowing. One of the first, the first story I ever did on RJ Barrett was on his dad. It was really about his dad, Rowan and Rowan, you know, he grew up in Scarborough and come over from, and didn't start playing basketball until grade nine. You know, there was, like, and the only place he played was at school.

Like, there was no, like, pathway. And you flash forward, you know, 25, 30 years, whatever the number is, and RJ is kind of like, he is almost like a, I don't want to say a test tube because it's pejorative, but he's almost like, of all the guys who've come before him and at each stage guys would kind of, like even Tristan Thompson and even Wiggins to an extent, like they were kind of

there was all these kind of false starts as they were on their development path and with RJ it was almost perfect, right? Like he had a good club basketball system. He had a good provincial and national team development, like kind of early identified talent. These programs to identify talent early and get them in and get them good coaching early. He had good exposure to the U.S. in terms of competition, AAU ball.

He had international experience with Canada basketball and just every like step along the stage is perfect. And then he ends up at Duke and he's not the first Canadian to be at Duke, but he's the first to be there as a true star. And, you know, and, you know,

and then depending on what happens, he's already made history there. And so he's kind of the guy who's almost like the 180 to Steve Nash, where Nash was completely unknown and had to sort of literally almost like make it up as he went. He was like the garage band, you know, kind of gone to her trying to bust it till he made it. Whereas RJ kind of got signed to the label early. And he's, you know, it's almost like he's got the pedigree. He's got the pedigree. He's got the pedigree.

He's got the great backstory. He's way better than Greg Newton is what you're telling me. Well, Greg Newton was pretty good. But yeah, he was... I remember we were so excited about Greg because... He's the second player to play, Greg Newton. Who was the first player to play? A guy named Danny Mahar.

Okay. Which is funny, you know, so Danny played there in the 80s. And I came across, when i did this book with jay triano and i came across he was a teammate of jay triano's at the on the olympic team and and i came across a quote from a feature in a global mail feature from danny maher and just it just makes me laugh how things have changed but uh you know his quote was basically like oh man it's awesome down here the girls are so hot you know they all love me and you know that quote was basically like, oh man, it's awesome down here. The girls are so hot. You know, they all love me.

And, you know, it was basically, there was very little imagination of how much fun this guy was having at Duke. And as a college basketball player and having just visited RJ, there were no quotes that interesting. No, of course not. No fault of RJ's, just the way it is. Yeah, for better or worse. The Greg Newton though, real quick, is that he was like, it was such a rare back then that we had anybody that we could kind of like

see on national TV and the NCAA. And then this, yeah. And he actually, he played above the rim. Like he had that flashy dunk kind of game. Yeah, no, he was a good player. He's a 6'10 guy from, you know, what's interesting is, again, with this Triano book, he was from St. Catharines.

And I think he was the ball boy, or sorry, Niagara Falls, because Danny Mahar was from St. Catharines. And back then, like the border cities tended to produce a disproportionate number of players because they had that exposure to the U.S. And I think Greg Newton was the ball boy on the Pee Wee baseball team,

Bantam baseball team, whatever, that won the Canadian championship that Doug Smith, who's covered the Raptors forever, played on with Jay Triano. Get out of here. I'm pretty sure it was coached by Jay's dad. If not Jay's dad or Greg's dad.

But Greg went and had a pretty good career at Duke, played a little pro, played in the Olympics in 2000 with Nash. And you're right. He was a really athletic, uh, kind of, kind of big man for sure. But RJ, he's the real deal. Like how good can he be? Um, I think he can be really good. Uh, I'm kind of glad for his sake that it looks like he's not going to be the first overall pick. Um, just because, you know, as we've seen, you know, between Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, that can sort of be a label that can weigh you down sometimes.

And so I think he's a guy who, you know, kind of will fit in very, very well in the NBA given his position and his abilities. And, you know, I think it's a little early. I'm not going to sit here and say, it's funny because I watch him and I see some gaps in his game and I wonder how well it'll translate. But then, you know, if you put what he's done this year compared to any other, well, almost any freshman in ACC history almost,

but any of the other Canadian freshmen, you know, you look at what they did in their first or second year of university compared to what RJ's done, there's no comparison. So, you know, I think he should come to the NBA and do really, really well. I'm not going to say he's, you know, guaranteed to be an MVP candidate or, you know, I think he's got a really good chance to be an all-star caliber player. And I think the one thing about him is he's, you know, there's, he's a really solid person and I think in the NBA that matters

and I think it'll go a long way towards him reaching whatever potential he does have. I'm almost as excited about RJ as I am about Vladdy Jr. So that's where we're at with you. Well, I'd say this. I mean, I think, you know, not to compare sports too much. I think if we're talking about ceiling, I think

Vladdy Jr.'s ceiling might be higher. Okay, it's funny you say this. I don't mean to cut you off, except this question was posed to me by the aforementioned Mark Hebzer on his podcast, Hebsey on Sports, and he said, who has the bigger ceiling? And I agree. I think if you had more bankable all-star like in terms i feel like might be rj

but the bigger ceiling is vladdy yeah yeah i think that's a good observation i mean uh you know and again i'm no expert it's not like i've seen but i just go by what i've read and the kind of comparable numbers he's put up to other people through the minors at this stage and and you know he looks like a guy who could be an mvp generational type player and you know that's not me saying it that's a lot of other people saying it whereas uh rj um he's got some of the he's definitely got attributes where it's conceivable but i just i just thinkivable, but I just don't think it's fair to say he's there yet. I think he's got, you know, and I've been, one thing I've seen so many of these young guys

and I've been part of the problem sometimes in terms of hyping them so much and you get so excited about them. And ultimately it's not fair to them. I mean, the guy's had an unreal year at Duke and he will be a top three pick in the NBA draft. Well, top two. Yeah, we'll say top three.

Oh, you're the expert. And I think there's every reason to expect he'll be an NBA all-star, but that doesn't make you a generational player. How will Duke do in the tournament, March Madness? I'm a little nervous for them, to be honest. It's funny. I've talked to other people around the league,

and their talent really drops off after their top four. And it's kind of a funny thing where Dave Smart, the legendary Carlton coach, just announced he's going to move on to kind of an administrative role at Carlton. And, you know, what I've seen with Duke is, you know, Zion Williamson's, you know, one of a kind. RJ's one of a kind almost.

And then the two other freshmen are really good, you know, have flaws, but then the other guys, the upperclassmen surrounding them are, I don't want to say terrible, you know, but they've just, it's very clear that you go to Duke and if you're not one of these one and done guys, your role is very, very peripheral. And so you don't develop as a player and, and you watch some of these guys and eventually the ball finds them and they're just, they're not ready to step up when the spotlight's on. So I think, I think that could be a real, uh, you know, a real weakness that other teams exploit. So, um, you know, I, I wouldn't pick Duke to win. Now you mentioned Dave Smart. So I have to ask you Habs Rule. I don't like his handle there, but Habs Rule had a question. How long until Dave Smart is our national team coach? Could be a while.

I'm kind of working on some stuff around this right now. And, you know, that job is up for grabs. And I don't think, I'm not sure when this is going to come out, this podcast. Oh, it's going to be out 15 minutes after we take a photo. All right. So, as I said, I don't think it I'm not sure when this is going to come out, this podcast. Oh, it's going to be out 15 minutes after we take a photo. So, as I said, I don't think it'll be this time around. I think they're going to, I think they're going to, you know, I've reported the other day they're interviewing Roy Rana. They're interviewing Gord Herbert, who's a Canadian who played in the Olympics, who's coached overseas for years. And then they're looking at some international candidates.

So I don't know if Dave is on that radar for this cycle as we speak, but he's one of the great coaches in any sport anywhere ever. You started at the Globe in 95. Yes. Okay, this also happened in 1995. Inside for Tabak. Alvin Robertson for three. Yes. Okay, this also happened in 1995. Clearly recorded off the television there, so I apologize for the potato quality.

There's Rod Black calling the first, Alvin Robertson, of course, who had a monster game. 30 points. Right, right, right. And we won the Nets, right? We beat the Nets? Yeah.

Just because now I'm going to just segue over to a little Raptors talk here. But can you share anything from like how it all began in the cavernous dome? Yeah, I wasn't at, I didn't cover the first game. I did cover a few games that first season. You know, but it was,

it was just, I do remember kind of in, I think my first year I was covering the team semi-regularly or regularly was probably the 90s. I think it was 97, 98. It won 16 games. That was the year that Isaiah Thomas left in alerts. The ownership was kind of in turmoil.

And I remember like doing a story about ticket demand. In fact, I remember pretty vividly sitting beside Bruce Arthur, and it would have been very early in Bruce's career, sitting beside Bruce Arthur and it would have been very early in Bruce's career and, um, kind of looking around and maybe, you know, maybe that was the ACC. So I'm kind of, yeah. Cause ACC 99. Yeah. But, uh, but that it was part of that same era, but, but, you know, literally like you could buy a ticket for a dollar, like no one wanted to go. It was, you know, the, the newness had worn off. The stadium was terrible. The organization was terrible. Um, I remember, um,

Tracy McGrady, who was 18, like, like 18 and, uh, was fed kind of come, come, come out. He was in, in trade where there was trade rumors that they were thinking about trading him to Philadelphia for Jerry Stackhouse, I think. And because Jerry Stackhouse and Allen Iverson were feuding or something. And I remember asking Daryl Walker, who was the brief coach of the Raptors,

you know, well, you got this kid. And there'd been all this talk when they drafted McGrady, you know, Isaiah Thomas, you know, most from him, most of all about how they were going to set up him with tutors and they were going to have this kind of 360 degree kind of approach to developing this young kid right out of high school, small town, blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course, none of that happened, like none.

And so I remember asking Darrell Walker, well, you know, are you going to talk to Tracy at all? I mean, you know, you've been traded you as a player, you know, are you going to talk to Tracy at all? I mean, you know, you've been traded, you're as a player and, you know, this young kid must be kind of weird, kind of unsettling for him to hear this. And he was like, who cares? I got traded three times. He turned and walked away. Like it was like heartless. And I was kind of naive at the time too.

I goes, wow, that's kind of mean. And no, it was just a shit show basically. And it's amazing. I was kind of mean. And no, it was just a shit show, basically. And it's amazing. You know, the Raptors won their 50, you know, 150, I guess, for the fourth straight year. And, you know, people who, you know, there's two kinds of people. There are people who remember how terrible it was,

not just on the floor, but the whole organization. Right. And kind of will never not appreciate where the team is now. And then people who have no idea and just don't understand, you know, what's come before. But for those of us who remember, this is a pretty good time. I remember. I remember that first year anyways. I don't know if you covered the win over the Bulls.

No, no, I didn't cover the team. It's almost like we treat that. I treat back then we treated that like that was like we treat that, I treat, back then we treated that like that was like, oh, you know, game seven. Yeah, meanwhile, the Bulls, you know, they'd probably been out till about four in the morning or later. Right, right, right. It was guaranteed wood night for them.

But no, I did, I do remember covering a game. It was, you know, on the Woodwind 97, 98, the Raptors lost to Jordan in overtime. And I think it was Jordan's last year in Chicago. We thought it was the last year of his career, but his last year in Chicago. Right.

And I remember him hitting free throws, taking, taking and making free throws with his eyes closed. And he just, ah, he's just, ah, just something I do for fun. And, uh, and my other story about that was there was always a rumor that, uh, you know, I probably shouldn't probably tell that one. I'll leave that one alone. Oh, Michael. It's just, it's a good one, but anyway, another time. That one you could tell me after I press stop on the

recording. Uh, Brian Gerstein is a real estate sales representative with PSR brokerage. He's also, uh, well, he'll explain the clip, but he's Raptor's devotee on Twitter. And I mean, he has been passionate about the Raptors since day one. I do know. I do recognize him from Twitter. Yes. So here he is. He's got a question for you.

Let's hear from Brian. Property in the six dot com. Hey, Michael. Brian Gerstein, sales representative with PSR Brokerage and Raptors devotee on Twitter here. March breaks over. Now's the time to contact me for a free home evaluation if you're considering selling your home and are looking to buy. You can also call or text me at 416-873-0292. If you're interested in the Galleria Mall condo redevelopment, my brokerage is exclusively

selling late spring. Back when the Raptors sucked, and they did for many years, you had a column in the Globe Mail called From Deep, where Michael Grange brings unique news, commentary, and analysis from around the basketball world. Within that column, you had a hilarious feature called Ask Hump, where your readers, including me, got a chance to ask Chris Humphrey's questions. The best part was that Hump's locker was next to Jamario Moon, and both got involved on my question when I asked Chris if he practices his three-point shooting, and the back-and-forth on it was hilarious,

as Chris said he practiced it a ton, and Moon called him out for how many he made. The ironic part is that back in 2008, big men rarely shot frees like they do today and Sam Mitchell would have been all over Chris had he been shooting them. Any comments on Hump and Moon and how much fun they were together and how hard was it to cover a losing team back then? Looking for storylines that mattered besides the draft? Wow. Hump and moon. Yeah, ask hump.

I mean, it's funny, the things that stick out in people's minds. So From Deep was, and thanks for the question, Brian, From Deep was a block. And it actually started the 06-07 season, and the Raptors ended up being really good that year. And it was kind of like, it was kind of this, this, this sort of revolutionary, not revolutionary, but it was a new way to. Well, blogs were really big back then. Yeah, it was done online only and, and, and it was a way to interact with readers. And as an aside, Daniel Dale, who, you know,

has kind of made an incredible name for himself covering the Trump presidency for the Toronto Star. At the time, he was in journalism school and he's a huge Raptors fan.

And he would kind of, I would get these messages from him just, you know, because the whole thing was to try and be interactive. That was a very important thing then. And so I would get these really, really well-written, just, you know, cause the whole thing was to try and be interactive. That was a very important thing then. And, uh, and so I would get these really, really well-written funny kind of things. And so I kind of had this correspondence with him a little bit. And

also for From Deep, I got Daniel Dale and I think a buddy is, or his brother or something to choose, uh, to, to select my fantasy team. And they, they would do like a recurring thing. That was pretty funny. But, um, but From Deep, so that was pretty funny but um but from deep so that was from deep and then within so i was kind of looking for these kind of recurring things that i could do to so i could i bet the whole thing ended up creating a lot more work for myself than than uh than i had bargained for because these things never end up being in place of any of anything they always end up being addition and um, but so I did, so Ask Hump was literally just as Brian described it. And Chris Humphries was one of these guys who you kind of thought was a little dumb,

but he wasn't dumb. He was just goofy. And he was, you know, but the beauty of it was, it was he kind of had a very high opinion of himself, a little bit higher maybe than anyone who was writing his checks did. And so he would kind of get himself into these pickles sometimes where you'd, I remember one time asking him about LeBron and he ended up going on about how they'd played the McDonald's All-American game and he'd out-chilied out-played them.

And, you know, he just had this, like, he would always kind of pivot around to, like, it was never like, the stories always ended up being, you know, I'm being held back here, is what's sort of the gist of it. And, yeah, so Hump working on his three-point shooting, and Brian is right, at the time, it just seemed outrageous. Who would ever do that?

But little did we know that Hump was ahead of his time. Yeah, that's a, I always think Dirk Nowitzki was kind of your... Yeah, he was the first, I always think Dirk Nowitzki was kind of your. Yeah, he was the first, but even then, like, like when he came in as a high volume relative,

he shot a reasonable volume of threes and then he dialed it way back. And when he won his MVP and all that, he was only shooting one or two threes a game. Right. And I remember writing about that's one of the keys. That's why he had sort of broken through as he was shooting less threes. And you know, it's just weird the way we just didn't understand things. But Hump was, that was a fun team to cover.

There was a lot of cool guys. Anthony Parker was on that team. You know, it was just, Sam Mitchell was nuts. And it was, there was a lot of laughs. When I, we were talking about R.J. Barrett. And then I recently probably saw it too, but the Eric Carter documentary that Drake helped produce. Yeah.

That was weird. Like the catalyst. So now we have all this talent coming out of the GTA, and they always like to point to Vince Carter. But I always wonder, like, perhaps we could be pointing to the actual fact we had a team here in 95. Yeah. Or is it all one and the same?

I think the Carter effect, I think that's actually the name of the documentary. Yeah, that's right. And it's kind of a funny... Oh, I called it Eric Carter. Oh, yeah, the Carter effect. Sort of a funny story about that. But yeah, I think if you were to rank why has,

you know, in 25 years later, since the Raptors came, are we at this stage with Canadian basketball with, you know, 12 years later um since the Raptors came as as are we at this stage with Canadian basketball with you know 12 or 13 NBA players and there could be as many five get drafted this year um you know the the number one thing is there's a team that's that's by far uh the most you know just that it's become part of the landscape I would say probably the number two thing is it's amazing to me. It's just a generational thing. So like when I came up and I was playing and super passionate, like there was never enough basketball for me. Literally there was never enough basketball. Like it was like you played at your school and that was kind of it. And all you wanted was more. And I know anyone around my age would probably say the same thing.

And, you know, these people become parents. And what do parents do, right? Like they kind of go and provide for the kids what they couldn't necessarily provide themselves. Right. And so that's why, you know, the other thing is just the quality and depth and reach of grassroots basketball and leagues and programs, clinics, camps. And I had a weird experience like, uh, covering, I did a story on, like, I want to say U17 national team and RJ was on, he was playing, I might've been U18. I can't remember what year, this was probably three, four years ago.

And on this team of 12, I think, I'll exaggerate for the sake of the story, I think six of them were guys, were sons of, or nephews of guys I knew or played against or watched play. And very clearly it was guys who'd grown up and said, look, we can do this better. And so that would be three.

Vince Carter as a lightning rod catalyst, he deserves a ton of credit. Steve Nash deserves a ton of credit. But, you know, we do overstate a little bit the Vince Carter effect. But very quickly, I'm terrible at quick stories. It's okay. That's the beauty of a podcast. The, um, uh, I got contacted to, to,

I, I did a, a documentary, a huge multi-platform project for Sportsnet about Vince Carter. It was called Vince Carter 2.0. And it was like a 30 minute doc. And, you know, it was almost the,

I think it was the first one that kind of really re-examined, uh, you know, Carter's place with the Raptors and everything that happened. And it was like maybe 15 years after he'd left or something. We thought he was going to retire. Of course he never has. And, um, and it got, you know, got huge reviews. It did really, really well. And, and the people that, you know, the people I did it with were, you know, a big factor in that. Um, and then, so a guy saw that and I'm blanking on his name. I apologize if he happens

to listen to this and, and, and, and he wanted to sit and he reaches out to me and says, look, I'm doing a documentary on Vince Carter. I saw your stuff. Um, I'd love to talk to you. Um, and at the time, you know, he know he kind of in passing he mentioned something about lebron's production company or i was like yeah whatever like you know i didn't really did not think twice about it like and so i went and met him and he had set up in a hotel suite and sat me down and we talked for about an hour and didn't think i literally forgot all about it done gone and about a year or 18 months later I got an email saying uh you know the uh you know it's the premiere of this and this is at is at the film festival you know would you like to come you know can we set you aside a ticket

and I was like I was like what what was that, what, what, what was that? And, and it turns out that like what I had paid no attention to was being produced by, by co-produced by Drake and LeBron. Right. That's funny. And, uh, go, okay. And I, and even to that, I was like, well, I don't care really. I'm not going to go. And it was a summer afternoon and I was going to go play golf or something. Okay. You know what? I might as well go. And again, it just never quite registered what I was, what was going on. And so I get down to, it was at the Prince of Wales theater,

I think on, on King street. And there's like, the street is jammed. Like they closed the street and there's a red carpet and like there's Bentley's are all lined up. And, and I kind of,

I'm as usual, I'm a little bit late and I, I have to figure out how to get into the building i get it i get hustled into the green room and there's like lebron's in there and you know all the raptors all these other celebrities i think great i'm gonna say drake was there it was just i was like and so we go in for the screening and it's packed and it's on this huge like movie screen so So I'm watching this thing and you know, Drake is on camera talking about his thing and blah,

blah, blah. And then they'd cut to me. Yeah. Yeah. And then they'd cut to like Tracy McGrady and then they'd cut to Drake and then they cut to me and like other people who went in obviously, but it was a very,

very surreal experience. And anyway, that's why. Your kids must've been impressed by that. Well, that's the thing. And then it ends up on Netflix. I still kind of get a little, that's my... Your kids must have been impressed by that. Well, that's the thing. And then it ends up on Netflix. I still kind of get a little...

That did move the needle, like as you know, having kids. It doesn't move very much, but that moved it a little bit. It's tough to move the needle. Do you ever go by Mike? Like would your buddies call you Mike? Okay, because it's Michael Grange.

I guess that's the golden male, right? Michael Grange. Any other kind of crude name, but yeah. Mike is the one. Alright, I have a question. Actually, a comment and question from Chris Black. Yes. Mike makes a point of using his platform

to promote voices that are less recognizable to sports fans in this country. For example, more than 10 years ago, he allowed me to write excerpts that would appear on his Globe and Mail blog. From deep. From deep. There it comes back. And it was a really big deal for a small timer like me back then.

So my question is, what's the motivation behind doing stuff like that or promoting his feature producer, Mark McDonald? Did someone help him out in a similar way when he was getting started? First of all, Chris is underselling himself there. He's a really, really well respected feature producer and live producer

for Sportsnet. And he's a great follow on Twitter for Raptors fans, and all sports fans actually, because he'll dig into some little statistical nugget and throw uh, and, and throw it out there and they're always really interesting and thought provoking. So he's been a little modest there, but, um, you know, why do I do that? I mean, I just,

just good manners, I guess. I mean, I mean, you know, people, I can't really think I've never had anyone not really be good to me. I can't think of anyone who's... I think I'd be exaggerating a little bit to say anyone kind of really was a mentor to me. I mean, things happen pretty fast for me. So I wish maybe I had one at times, but I had good friendly colleagues. But, you know, this is a tough business. It's hard to make it. And people, especially sometimes on the TV side, you know, this is a tough business. It's hard to make it. And people, um, especially sometimes on the TV side, um, you know, like I'll do a TV feature,

like the RJ thing is a man is a written feature and also a TV feature. And, you know, because on my phases on camera, my voice is part of the, is, is, you know, people get it all the time. Oh, amazing, amazing feature. And I'm like, look, I had a really small thing to do with that. Like I asked questions. You know, somebody else arranged the interviews. Someone else, you know, I was just along for the ride.

Right, all the credit goes to the face. Yeah, and the guys who produce, you know, so Mark McDonald in this case for the RJ thing, I've done other stuff with him. You know, and there's a crew of guys at Sportsnet and at TSN too, who are kind of the engines behind a lot of those features we all love. And just by the nature of the industry, they don't always get the recognition.

But I can't imagine why I wouldn't try to recognize them because they're the ones who got it done. It's good etiquette. And so you mentioned the manners. And to listeners, I mean, the fact is, I've been doing this a long time, like several years, and it'll be funny how things will happen. I'll be watching a Raptors game, and then I'll see Michael Grange. It'll be three-point Grange or

something. Is there still three-point Grange? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I watch a lot of Raptors, but I can't remember if that's... Well, it's halftime, so most people are quite rightly going to get something to eat. That's right. So, you know, there's Michael Grange, and I'll have this thought like, oh, I wonder if Michael Grange would be game

to come over and field these silly questions or whatever. And the fact that you're here, like I just want to say, the fact that you're actually sitting here in this guy's basement doing this podcast is evidence that you're a decent guy. Like, you don't have to do that. All right. Okay. Well, thanks.

I appreciate that. Well, I mean, I've listened to, you know, people I know and people, you know, you have such an eclectic list of people who've done it that I've kind of, it keeps coming across my Twitter feed and eventually, okay, well, maybe I'll listen to them and they're fun. So you did listen to episodes of Charlie. I'm afraid to ask that. I used to ask that question and often I'd be, it would be embarrassing for the guests to admit to me they actually haven't heard it.

No, no, no. I mean, I kind of, I'm trying to think. I think I might have listened to Brunt's beforehand. Oh. Like, just because that was one of the ones I came across. Oh, is that when you, when I invite you and you want to just check out, like, what does he do? Like, do I really want to be a part of this?

And you're like, oh. No, no, no. I think the order would have been, there was a couple i think i actually was intrigued by just organically and then and then once you reach out to me i was like okay well let me listen make sure i'm what i'm doing here and uh but i know i've enjoyed them and and uh you know like i say like the the biff nate kid one was good oh she's great you know meister fresh west like it's just interesting so a lot of interesting stuff no those guys are all great oh well so thanks for being here uh that's not to wrap up because i actually hoping to have Meister Fresh West. It's just interesting. So a lot of interesting stuff. No, those guys are all great. Oh, well, so thanks for being here.

That's not to wrap up because I actually hope that I have you for a little bit longer. In fact, there's a second question from Chris Black. I don't know if I gave him his allotted time there, but he wants to know, how does your experience

as a university basketball player influence your work now? You know, again, I would not overstate my experience as a university player. I'd say, so on the technical side, like know, again, I would not overstate the, uh, my experiences as a university player. I'd say, um, so on the technical side, like, I don't think I have any, you know, it was like almost another era. So it's not like Ashley docking, for example, uh, was a start with college though. Uh, no, I mean, I would say it's comparable to that. Right. Like, so, so I would say it does,

I would say this, um, there's two things I think I have that, you know, I have a fair bit of confidence in, and I think playing helped. And, again, it's not like I played 10 years in Europe or anything. But one is I think I do have a decent eye for guys who are good and what makes them good and, and just little nuances to individual play. I'm not like a super strong X's and O's guys. I mean, there's, there's guys where that's been an explosion in all sports, but basketball as most relevantly in terms of guys just breaking down video and, and, uh, you know, you can go online and get people will give

you the whole Raptors playbook and stuff. So I, I, you know, like I get it, I understand it. I, I, I'm not, you know, this, this X is an O guru, not even close. Don't have a ton of interest in being that, but in terms of sort of the nuances of how the, an individual plays the game, I think I have a very good feel for that. Um, I'm really interested in skill development and stuff. Cause you know, I spent a fair bit of time, even, you know, after I finished playing at school, just working on skills and adopting new skills. And, but I think the big, this thing I, I bring is probably, uh, you know, uh, I, I've

failed, you know, and, and, you know, I've definitely put my heart into things and, uh, definitely have got kicked in the teeth. And I think that's a huge part of sports. And so I think that's, you know, that's not unique. I mean, there's a lot of people who failed, probably more than the other. But that would definitely be, definitely have scars. And I can add to the list that you have a Leo Roudin-esque chin, good strong chin, Leo style.

Well, Leo is an awesome dude, man. And doing this job is one of the coolest things. So when I was young growing up, he was a legend. And he grew up in the same neighborhood as me. And funny enough, um, when I was in high school and as I said, there was, there was just, wasn't a ton of the most fun and, uh, meaningful experiences I've ever had in playing basketball were, argue, like pick up, uh, basketball around Toronto in, uh, you know, the, you know, when I was in my late teens and early twenties, and it was just an incredible scene of places you could go play. Like you used to be able to go to U of T at Hart House, for example, and walk in, like you weren't really supposed to be there, but, um, as long as you didn't cause

too much trouble, you could just go and play, you could go to george brown college and play or you could go to uh any number of like sort of designated drop-in spots and play and and the quality of basketball is super high i played against amazing players and i can't remember where i'm going with this and i guess and it was you know it was it was it was kind of so formative and, and, and informative for me. And, and, and Leo was the, I just missed him. Like so many of these guys, you know, I, I, I sort of played against and all that, and, and, or watch play. And Leo was just a little bit older than me. And, uh, so I never actually seen him, but, but one of the places, sorry, this is not where I was going. So one of the places I,

I, I ended up playing a lot was, uh, the Lithuanian Resurrection Church on Dundas, uh, in Dufferin, which is now, uh,

condos, or sorry, townhouses. And I was, uh, you could go play pickup there. Lithuania is, you know,

is like basketball is like their, their lifeblood. And, you know, basketball is like their lifeblood. And, you know, so I actually got to play on a team that we would travel. And I was a ringer. I was Mike Granjas because I was blonde. And he said, all right, you'll do. And, you know, so we would go to Detroit and Chicago and play in these North American Lithuanian championships.

And Leo was like, he played at that church, this club, Outshur was the name of the club. And he's like legend, man, legend. And he was featured in Toronto Life. He was featured in the Toronto Star. He was, you know, he went to Syracuse. And like just to be anywhere, like one step removed from him was this incredible experience for me.

And then one of the first basketball features I wrote at the globe was about Leo Routens and he had just transitioned to broadcasting. And here we are 20, whatever number of years later, and we're friends and, um, he's an awesome guy. He's super supportive.

He's been very helpful to me, uh, in terms of, you know, broadcasting, just a guy who's, who's gone out of his way. Say, you know what, like, you're kind of new at this. Think about this.

The little tips that matter. And, yeah, so that's been a real pleasure for me. And it still makes me laugh sometimes that this guy was so huge in my mind as a teenager, even though he's not that much older than me, is now a colleague and a peer. And, you know, it's really cool. Now, can you name the current NBA-er who was part of that Lithuanian team that you're talking about?

Like part of Austria? Oh, it would be Nik Stauskas. Correct. Yes. Good for you. That's good. Yeah, you know why? Well, they now play okay. So, you know, Michael Power was a high school in Toronto. Yes. Good for you. That's good. Yeah. You know why? Well, they now play okay.

So, you know, Michael Power was a high school in Toronto. Yep. That's a bingo tile for somebody playing the bingo game, which is inside there. But that's gone now. They moved. Actually, I'm the last graduating class before they moved to near Centennial Park or something. Now it's condos. But they built a church.

And that church is now the Resurrection Church. Right. And in the basement is where the team practices and. Right. So, so the history of that would have been like, there was the, the original church was on, was on Dundas and college. And it was just a super modest little place. And I guess, you know, I think that the Lithuanian community, there was some pretty sharp business people in there and they, uh, they flipped that and, and bought the Lithuanian community, there was some pretty sharp business people in there. And they flipped that and bought the land, you know, at Kipling and Dundas, I guess it is.

And they, you know, they turned that into, so they, two real estate developments. Back to back, you do pretty good. But yeah, Nick was an extra guy. Yeah. And, you know, just crazy experiences, man. I remember being, I think 16 and, and we're going to play in a tournament in Montreal and there's the coach was this guy named Rimmer. Like I, I look back as a sports parent now and, you know, and like, I just, I presume I just came

home and said to my mom, yeah, I'm going to Montreal for this basketball tournament. I guess they said yes. And we pile in this van. We drive to Montreal. We sleep with eight guys in a hotel room just off around the corner from St. Catharines there. And you can imagine what a bunch of 16-year-old boys did at St. Catharines, you know,

and fit in some basketball games and just outrageous stuff. That's great. Now your homework, Michael, is you got to hook me up with Leo. I need Leo on the program. I will do that. I got to do that. He will have a very difficult time in this basement. I'll say that.

Kevin Barker got down here. All right. We'll see. He is taller than Kevin Barker, but we'll try. And my favorite fun fact just before we leave Leo is that Leo is older. No, sorry. Yes, Leo is older than Jack Armstrong. Yeah, Leo turns 59 today, I think.

He's got those Lithuanian genes. Jack looks like he's 70, yeah. And, you know, but Jack's looked like way, literally since I've met him, which is now over 20 years. Like he's always looked old. Don't get me wrong, Jack is the best.

And, you know, he runs every day and he's super healthy and very, very young at heart. So he's doing fine that way. And he's got a catchphrase. That's everything for these guys calling games. You need a catchphrase, right? Like you got Holy Mackinac and Joe Bowen or whatever.

You got, get that garbage out of here. Yeah, no, he's made a great career. He's a really good broadcaster. And, you know, this is cliche, but Laurie Ewing at Canadian Press did an awesome story on Jack, um, and his family. Um, and, and he, uh, he is the father of three boys. I think it's three. Um, but they're all adopted. They're all, uh, either biracial or, or, um, or black kids basically.

And, and, uh, you know, and just a great story about his family coming together the steps they took to to reach out for them and how great they've all turned out and um you know and i can't you know it says all you need to know about somebody is they is they would reach out and raise um adopt not one but two but three kids and they all turned out amazing i mean you know what better accomplishment is there in life, really? It's just too bad that we can never tune in a Raptor game and see you and Jack on the same telecast. Yes.

Yes. That's a good point. Now, I mentioned earlier when I was talking about how everybody's got to get their jewelry and watches repaired at Fast Time. Milan is from Fast Time. He's got a great question for you, Michael. So let's hear from Milan. Hello, Toronto Mike. It's Milan from Fast Time, watch and jewelry repair. Hello, Michael. Big fan

of your work over the years, dating back to your Globe and Mail days and your 7 at 7 blog. Two-part question. One, as a big fan of the primetime sports roundtable, if you had to choose a roundtable of Raptors, past or present, who would you select based on the criteria of sheer entertainment? And two, in your opinion, has the perception of NBA players playing in Toronto changed? To this day, I still hear smarky comments from the American media regarding the cold weather during the 2016 NBA All-Star Game in Toronto. Thanks, Michael and Toronto Mike.

Great questions. Yeah, the 7 at 7 was another blog, and it was sort of a point when I kind of transitioned away from being a rapper's primary guy to I would get up at 4 in the morning and write and do kind of almost like a newsletter thing that was the seven most compelling things in sports at seven in the morning, which again seemed like a good idea. Can I do a quick aside real quick? Because it's happening with podcasts now. And I've been blogging since 2002.

And I've always been keenly interested in this. But the mainstream media, if you will, like newspapers, they kind of see this new blog thing. And they feel they need to be there. And all of a sudden, you see all these blogs pop up. But they're not quite sure. It's never as many eyeballs as anticipated. And then it's never monetized the way they thought it could be.

And then they end up kind of falling by the wayside or whatever. And I feel like that's going to happen right now with podcasts. Just throw that to them. Yeah, no, I mean, it's probably worth another podcast. I mean, you would know better. I mean, these things are, I think the story of old media versus new media is old media is very organic and grows, you know, off the side of people's desks and, and, and slowly becomes profitable over time as, and, and because they don't have any kind of, uh, overhead, although you've spent a lot of money on your mixing board, but. It was very expensive.

Yes. But whereas, you know, the flip side is, is that's, those things aren't true. It's kind of legacy companies. They have all these other costs, but, um. Oh yeah, back, so I'm sorry, Milan, I interrupted these other costs, but, um, Oh yeah. Back. So I'm sorry. I interrupted there. Uh, but the round table of rappers.

So, uh, it's the round table of rappers. Um, wow. That's, I would put, so Fred Bentley comes to mind really quickly just cause he can talk about

anything. He's not scared to talk about anything. He's a pretty funny guy, dryly funny guy. And, uh, so he'd, he'd be an easy one. Um, Anthony Parker was, uh, you know, again, I might be failing here in picking guys that were just fun and easy to talk to, but Anthony, Anthony Parker was a great dude, uh, was always really good to me on those teams. And he was fun, good laugh. And then after that, you could go, Louis Scola would be actually an amazing choice.

For sure, one of the most worldly athletes, period, people, period, you're ever going to meet. Super insightful, great quote, great stories, great breadth of experience. I think those three could be you could go a lot deeper than that, but they would be good places to start. No Jalen Rose?

Jalen Rose, yeah. He would up the entertainment value for sure, but you're only allowed three, right? Jalen Rose would be good. Tracy McGrady would be really good. Butch Carter would be good. Tracy McGrady would be really good. You know, Butch Carter would be good. Although he'd be kind of, you know, you'd have to fact check him maybe.

Sam Mitchell, like, you know, there's a long list. A lot of interesting guys. And what was the other, oh, he wanted to know the perception of Canada. Among players? This is an Antonio Davis thing, right? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think, I do remember, like you made reference to the All-Star Game 2016.

It was just bizarre how cold it was, right? Like it really was record setting cold. And the shame of that was if you go back and look at the weather in 2016 you know it really was the you know everything had been building up to this is like this this moment right and they had the new practice facility open and the team was really good uh you know the the um you know the Kyle and and Damar were like legit uh all-stars So like everything was lining up perfectly. And, and like, I remember vividly going jogging, uh, like a day or two before the all-star game in like a sweatshirt and, and, and shorts basically. Like it was like six or seven degrees.

Like I used to build a rink in my yard back in the day. I couldn't build a rink that year. And, um, and then the all-star game hits and it is death defying cold. Like it is like, you know, it is,

you just felt terrible for those girls lining up outside the clubs. Right. And, and, uh, or everything else. And,

and, and it was not only cold, it was windy and it ruined it like in a way. And, and then the circus pulls out of town on the Monday and I'm outside jogging in my shorts again. Like you just could not believe it. It's bad luck. That, that, that those four days had fallen at that week.

And meanwhile, the next year in New York, the all-star game was equally cold. So it wasn't like a, just a Toronto thing. But the overall perception I think of the franchise has changed enormously. I think it's recognized as a good place to come play, come work. Um, you know, the, they've never really taken a step backwards in that respect. it's going to be a first choice when the other choices maybe, or, you know, you know, like I think really that the teams in the NBA that are our first choice that are on that first ballot type thing are the teams in Florida and Texas that

have, don't have to state income tax. And then, you know, the warm weather, California, Los Angeles, basically,

and maybe the Knicks. And then after that, I think the Raptors are kind of on par with the Knicks tier down, and they're in a good enough place they can compete, I think. Can we do a little just quick rapid fire here? Sure. Okay, so my question is, and I would guess this might be your most frequently asked question,

and I know you don't have a crystal ball, but what's your money on Kawhi Leonard? Does he sign here? Yeah, I would, I would, I think there's a good chance. I mean, I've said this before. I think, uh, the Raptors have this hammer, right? Like they can offer him five years and, uh, one, uh, get my numbers wrong. Five years, 190. The rest of the league can only offer him four years, 140. And as we've seen this year, uh, he is a very conservative. He's taken a very conservative approach to his own elf. And as we've seen this year, uh, he is a very conservative. He's taken a very conservative approach to his own health. And I would think somebody who's that, uh, careful with

and needs to be that careful, I would be a little bit surprised if they would walk away from, uh, the chance to make another 50 million. Um, so it's not like I'm betting my mortgage on it, but, uh, it wouldn't shock me. No, I find comfort in your words. This is making me feel better. So thank you. Forty and Dunking wants me to know if you're thinking of writing any more books. Yeah, Forty and Dunking, another great Twitter follower, actually. Just follower, a guy to follow on Twitter.

Really funny, really clever wit and a fun guy to have interact with on Twitter. I'm not planning any. Like, I don't have anything in the works. There is a book I'd like to write kind of on sort of the, you know, kind of like the ongoing history of Canadian basketball type thing, or, you know, just because I think there's such a cultural story to be told around how the sport has matured and what it says about the city and the, and the country as we were touching on earlier.

Um, so if anyone's listening and wants to, uh, you know, fire me in advance and, uh, maybe we'll talk about it, but,

uh, but I'm not planning on it right now. Mike Rogotsky, uh, points out the Raptors are very popular. They are, they're very popular. We're all,

uh, very interested. Uh, do you think now is the time for another NBA franchise to come to Canada? Back to Canada, we should say. Back to Canada. I mean, I think Vancouver would be where it would go back to. And I think a lot of the circumstances that Wyatt left in the first place

would be accounted for or corrected or wouldn't exist. So would a basketball team do well in Vancouver? I do think they would. Do I think it's going to happen? No, I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. You know, Montreal people, I was shocked when I went to Montreal with the Raptors for an exhibition game this past October.

And the place was awesome, a great environment. So there's clearly a market there. But that's, you know, I don't know. I think that'd be a tougher sell. Jamie, not Jamie, his name's Jason. Jason wants to know what are the chances we have, uh, actually no. So Jason asked the same question as Grigotsky and then I hammered him on Twitter. I'm like, Jason, no, Grigotsky's got that. And then he came back with a second question and he

wanted to know what are the chances of a WNBA team here in Toronto? Yeah, good question. Um, I think, uh, I would say decent. I can't say I've dug into this much. I think the organization, MLSC, as much as we used to pound on them all the time and sometimes they deserved it, it's a pretty forward-thinking organization. Masai Jiri has done a great job of sort of throwing open the doors of the

Raptors organization, making it much more, and the Leafs have done this to make it much more kind of female friendly and, and, and made it clear that, that like reaching out and identifying good female talent is, helps your organization. Like it's not like favor that they're doing.

It's like, these are good people and we're crazy not to try and fish in those waters. Um, so it'd be an obvious, it would be a really good fit, but the question around it would be, um, I'm not sure where that league is in terms of,

of adding teams and adding franchises and what the business models look like and all that kind of stuff. Uh, but, but I think, I would be a little bit, yeah, I'd be a little bit, I would, I would be a little bit surprised. Why? and all that kind of stuff. But I think... Why not, right? Yeah, I'd be a little bit surprised

why, you know, if it's not going to happen and why it hasn't happened. And just before we play your jam, can you give us a prediction on how my Raptors are going to do this season in the playoffs? Are we going to get out of the East? You tell me what you honestly think. I don't think they're going to get out of the East? You tell me what you honestly think. I don't think they're going to get out of the East. I think, I think they'll, they'll, yeah,

I, you know, I like them to get into the second round. I do like them, I think, to get to the Eastern Conference final. But the only reason I say no is I think to be an elite team at that level, you need games. You need a lot of games together. And this team, as we've seen, it's just incredible. It's strange, eh? How little sort of consistency they've had with their lineup between injuries and rest and trades and all these kinds of things.

So I think it's, you know, I would just think from almost like a basketball purist standpoint, I would just think at some point that's going to come back and hurt you. But I hope I absolutely, truly hope I'm wrong. I think it would be an amazing story if they could pull it off. On that note, Kyle Lowry's okay, right? Not playing tonight against OKC. So, but I think, I don't think, it doesn't sound like it's a long-term thing.

That's another piece of audio. Okay, here. My first mistake today. Here we go. And this is not Mike and the Mechanics. long intro it's good for a DJ to hit the post but I don't know where the post is

so I can tell that when I asked you for your favorite song you told me you don't have a favorite song. Yeah, I think I'm being honest. You know, I would say I'm a music guy, but I'm a long way from people who build their lives around it anymore. But this song kind of jumped out at me.

I've always loved it, Talking Heads. And compared to a lot of songs I like, it's a very happy vibe to it. And by coincidence, really, the first live concert I ever went to was the Police Picnic at Exhibition Stadium way back. The Spoons were on that lineup, right? stadium way back. The Spoons were on that lineup, right? Spoons, Joan Jett, these guys were the second hot headliners

came on before the Police. That's part of it too. I would say the reason I chose it is I think it's the only song that both my kids will agree on that I like. That's saying something.

You know, and this part of here where I just find it kind of a different sort of song, really light melody, but I don't know, just appeals, always has. Let me hear it a little bit. And it's funny, like I'm not like this huge Talking Heads fan. Again, it's kind of a quirky song, but I like the message. And like I say, literally just the other day, it came up on my daughter's iPod. I was driving her and my son somewhere.

And usually there's a fight over what's going to be listened to. Oh, yeah. And they're not like nostalgists. They're not into the songs I listen to. And they both like it. Kind of neat. I'm insanely jealous that your daughter has the talking heads on her playlist. Yeah, I mean, her music taste verges from egregious to really, really good.

Talking before about how our musical careers kind of end, it's been fun with both my kids. They're 17 and 15. My daughter loves music. She's into it all the time. A lot of stuff I end up liking and have on my playlist now that, like, I never would have listened to and would have, you know, like, just, you know, some of it's just the normal pop stuff. And some of it's just kind of quirky things that she's into. And it's, you know, as anyone, I'm sure you have the same experience.

It's a fun way to relate with your kids. as anyone, I'm sure you have the same experience. It's a fun way to relate with your kids. Oh, I listen to a lot of stuff I discovered through my kids, but they listen to very little that they discovered through me. Like, I tried so hard. Yeah, I didn't try that hard, but they... That's your secret to your success.

Yeah, but they, you know, it's not like there's this long list, but they would generally, you know, most of my music they find amusing and they don't understand why so much of it is sad. Like, well, you know, most of my music they find amusing and they don't understand why so much of it is sad. Like, well, you know. You put on like the Smiths or something. Oh yeah, or like I like, you know, I like

all kinds of different stuff. But anyway, but this is for whatever reason, this is one they like and I like and I like, you know, home's a nice thought. You know. I'm impressed you were at that police picnic. I was looking, very recently, like in the last week, I was looking at a poster

from the police picnic. And I was thinking to myself, and I think, yeah, the very last line, I think, is the spoons. I only bring them up because Gord Depp's been on the show and I like the spoons. But yeah, the lineup was incredible. It was just fantastic. It really was. Like I said, Joan Jett was there.

Yeah, in the Blackhearts. I remember Joan Jett was there yeah in the Blackhearts I remember Joan Jett like I think people threw tomatoes at her which was I always thought was quite rude my wife calling me oh

well hang on there's a great thing sorry I can't talk right now it's okay we're telling we're winding down I'm gonna

in fact I'll start playing you keep continue that story anyway so I'm just trying to remember who else was there I think the English Beat were there, too. In fact, I know they were.

They were. I saw them on the poster. Yeah, it was a pretty amazing collection. And Sting was at a Raptor game recently. That's right. My buddy Eric Smith conducted the interview. Eric's been on. He had the record for a while for longest episode of Toronto Mic'd.

He was in the books for a while. Wow episode of Toronto Mic'd. He was in the books for a while, yeah. Wow. Although it got beat by Dan O'Toole from TSN. There you go. He got clobbered.

I hope I didn't win. No, you didn't, but no, I wouldn't do that to you. But thanks so much for doing this. This was amazing. Oh, my pleasure.

Yeah, it was fun. I really enjoyed it. And that brings us to the end of our 440-second show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Michael, are you at Michael Grange?

At Michael Grange on Twitter, yep. Good for you. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery or at Great Lakes Beer, enjoy your beer. Propertyinthesix.com is at Raptors Devotee. Palma Pasta is at Palma Pasta. Fast Time Watch and Jewelry Repair is at Fast Time WJR. And Camp Turnasol is at Camp Turnasol.

See you all next week. Cause my UI check has just come in. Ah, where you been? Because everything is kind of rosy.