Toronto Mike'd: The Official Toronto Mike Podcast - Michael Hainsworth: Toronto Mike'd #326

Episode Date: April 16, 2018

Mike chats with Michael Hainsworth about why he just quit his mainstream media gig at BNN after 30 years in the business.

Welcome to episode 326 of Toronto Mic'd, a weekly podcast about anything and everything. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery, a fiercely independent craft brewery located here in Etobicoke. Did you know that 99.99% of all Great Lakes beer remains here in Ontario? GLB, brewed for you, Ontario. And propertyinthesix.com, Toronto real estate done right. And Paytm, an app designed to manage all of your bills in one spot. Download the app today from paytm.ca and our newest sponsor, Camp Tournesol,

the leading French summer camp provider in Ontario. I'm Mike from torontomike.com and joining me is former member of the mainstream media, Michael Hainsworth. Thanks for having me. Thanks for

coming back, especially in, oh, I got a perfect Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming back. Especially in... Oh, I got a perfect song for this too. Oh my goodness. Did we just skip over spring and summer and fall? I'm not one of those guys who complains about the weather because I'll get out there and bike. I'll get out there and bike in like minus 17. Oh, you're that guy.

Yeah, I'm out there. You bastard. And I pride myself. I'm one of those humblebrag guys. Like, I don't miss a day. I'll get out there and bike in like minus 17. Oh, you're that guy. Yeah, I'm out there. Bastard. And I pride my guy. I'm one of those humblebrag guys. I don't miss a day. I hate you because I'm the driver who's trying not to kill you. But I'm usually on the waterfront trail

where cars are not allowed. If I'm on the waterfront trail where cars are not allowed, you know I've made a really bad ways turn. That's like those TTC only tunnels at Queens Quay that people keep driving into, I keep seeing. I did a short stint in traffic. And my all-time favorite traffic line was,

if you are traveling on the westbound 401 collectors approaching the DVP, you shouldn't be. They're closed. Have you ever done weather? Like you ever worked in weather? I haven't done weather and I haven't done sports, but I suspect that I've pretty much done everything else. Well, weather, because we can talk about the weather, I think, is after this weekend.

I got to say, I don't remember and I don't think we've ever had a weekend like that in April before. That was awful. I had said to my daughter, who's 11 years old, 11 going on 17, who's really sort of starting to become aware of the world around her. She was so excited towards the end of March that, you know, the spring was right around the corner. I said, honey, you wait for it.

We're going to get one more dumping because, as you know, in Toronto, you always get one more dumping in April. They say 10% of our snowfall typically falls in spring. Really? I think that's, I read that somewhere. I don't know, does that sound, does that sound... One out of 10 flakes. Right.

But that was, I mean, I don't mind snow and I don't mind rain. But what I don't like, because I can't bike in it and it shuts you down, is this freezing rain nonsense and then followed by the winds. Like that was just, that was a weekend where you could not, you couldn't safely bike a block. So you just shut it down and I don't like those weekends. That was awful. Yeah. Yeah. Last week we had a 120 year old oak tree come crashing down, landed on my front porch that I had spent all summer building. And then this last night, we had the tree directly across the street. So I'm calling them Romeo and Juliet. Juliet leapt from the balcony last night and landed on a car. But the little one was so freaked out by the 120-year-old oak tree hitting

our house, because this has been her sanctuary. This has been her stronghold. And to see it damaged really freaked her out. So when the other one hit and we felt the house shake, you know what? We're not even going to tell her about this. And sure enough, we look out the window and somebody's poor Corolla is about half the height it used to be. Oh, no. You know, I'm stuck on this wonderful fact you just dropped

that you built the porch so that you did that yourself. Well, this is the thing about being a broadcast type is that the moment it comes out of your mouth, you know, the internet notwithstanding, but the moment it comes out of your mouth, it's gone. And there's very little tangible evidence that you actually accomplished something. So when I'm not working on air in that capacity, I like to use my hands and I become quite a tool nerd. I've got a fantastic garage for all this kind of stuff and a stepfather who raised me to know how to throw a hammer. That's what I needed. I needed that father figure to teach me because I do my best. I really do my best, but I lack confidence. So when it comes to like building a porch, for example, I usually make a phone call to some expert to come in because I'm afraid it'll just I'll have the wrong angles or whatever. It'll be a hazard and it'll be unsafe. I don't have any confidence that I'll do it properly.

Yeah, I get that. And particularly when it comes to doing any form of renovation, I think that a lot of people shy away from it because they think about the process halfway through and the destruction, and they can't think past the destruction to when it's going to be all fixed up again and look even better. Plus, you've got all of the refuse that comes with any form of renovation. You think to yourself, how am I going to get rid of this? Well, that's why there are junk guys. You just call them up, they haul it all away, and if we can get over that psychological

hurdle of the disaster in progress, we're okay. Now, next time I have a job to do like that, I know I can call you to come over. Clearly plenty of time. Well, we're going to get to that, my friend. First, the big question in everybody's mind is actually, how's Ann Deuce doing? Oh, the better half. My long-suffering wife. She's doing very, very well. She spent 24 years in radio and got

pink-slipped, tapped on the shoulder because Rogers needed to pay for the NHL rights. She landed at Queen's Park. She likes to describe what she does for a living now is, I make problems go away. And so she's in cabinet office where she's on the bureaucratic side, responsible for briefing the premier every morning on 12 of the biggest ministries. Really? Yeah.

That's cool. Well, the neat thing about radio people getting into government is that even if a radio person's working at half speed, it's still four times faster than what the bureaucrats are accustomed to. I've heard this. So has she adapted, though, to the new pacing? How long does it take for her to adapt to the new, like, hey, don't do that right away. You have a couple of weeks to provide me with this report or something. Like, did she adapt yet? She has to a degree. She still tells me stories about people calling up asking for something and when she gives it to them

20 minutes later, they're like, I expected this in four days. I can see that. Oh, man, that's funny. But I'm glad she's doing well at Queen's Park as she's a familiar voice

to many listening right now. And Deuce was, yeah. So how long was she on 680? She was with 680 News for, I believe, 11 years. Wow. Yeah, yeah. These weekends must be like right what the doctor ordered over there at 680.

Like, please give us like an ice storm because that's what keeps people glued to these 24-hour, 24-7 news outlets, local ones anyways, is updates on what's going on with the weather. When will this ice storm stop? And when is it safe for me to actually go for a drive or whatnot? I don't know if it's still the case today.

But when I was there and when my wife was at 680 News, the storm center was a sponsored thing. And the relationship that the sales guy had with whoever the sponsor was, was the sponsor didn't pay unless there was a Storm Center activation. And the problem with that business model is that the moment a single flake hits the ground, Paul Cook's going, Snowmageddon! Everybody run for your lives! Can I tell you, I have always been fascinated by how quick they are to open the Storm Center at 680. And this explains it all. Absolutely. Maybe that's exactly still the way it was when I was there. But we would roll our eyes.

And there was a guy who used to work there named Scott Simpson who would be assigned to be the Storm Center reporter. And you would get the anchors going, it's all going to end. And he would go, ladies and gentlemen, it's going to be just fine. And then they'd cut back to, it's all going to end horribly. And when you open up your storm center

for every, you know, flurry or whatever, then when you have a weekend like this, it's almost like the boy who cried wolf, right? Almost. It's almost exactly like the boy who cried wolf. One of my biggest frustrations when I worked there was how easily one hit the breaking news stinger. Yeah.

There's a law of diminishing returns. Not everything is, in fact, breaking news. There's many offenders there now, and that's one of my big pet peeves too, is now breaking news would be sort of like an update on an ongoing story that's been going on for maybe... You might get a piece of breaking news today, and it's an update on maybe the horrible bus tragedy

in Humboldt, Saskatchewan or something like that. But it's not actually happening now. It's more it's so that the use of breaking news has been so abused. It means nothing now. And there was that conversation going on when I was there. And the solution was to in addition to a breaking news stinger, there was also a happening now stinger. Is it something like this? I can't do it justice. I can hear the stinger in my head. Yeah, the problem with it, though, is that it doesn't have the same impact.

Happening now is not, those aren't power words in that line of work. And you want something like that, like breaking news has a certain authority and energy to it. So it doesn't surprise me that the happening now doesn't have the same kind of effect. Right, right, right. Now, you did not bring a martini today. So last time you were here, which I'm going to tell people about, you made me my very first, and so far my last, martini. And that was fun.

You had a whole kit. We had the big TV's Michael Hainsworth's leaving mainstream media party across the street from BNN the other Friday night. And someone bought me a martini. And when they came back with it, they were surprised at the ceremony that is involved in making one. And I explained that that's half of why I like the martini is that it's not just a function of pulling a pop tab back and chugging a beer. You've got to put effort into it. Right. That's why I only drink my coffee with the French press because I enjoy the,

and I'm being serious right now, I enjoy the ceremony and the ritual of like actually doing it all, plunging and everything with the French press. Yeah. We spent some time in London recently, and we did the Airbnb routine, and they did not have a drip coffee maker. And among all the different cultural differences between the Brits and Canadians, that was the one that stood out to me the most, that the Europeans particularly like their French press. Yeah, it's actually, I would say for the last 15 years, I start every morning with the French press, and I don't have any other way of making coffee in this house. It's always with the French press. And it's super hot, way of making coffee in this house. It's always with the French press.

And it's super hot, it's super great, and it's super tasty. But I mentioned the martini, and if people want to go back and listen to our chat. So you and Alan Cross came over for the 249th episode and I'm going to read the description. Mike chats with Michael Hainsworth and Alan

Cross about the return of Geeks and Beats, Michael's career in radio and television, and what's new with Alan since episode 66. So go back and listen to episode 249, and you'll hear me enjoying my very first martini. And that was a dirty martini, right? Dirty vodka martini. It was so dirty, you probably needed an antibiotic after that. Well, it upset Alan because I mentioned it.

He came back to kick out the jams and I mentioned the martini and he went like, yuck, or something when he heard it was dirty. So I guess Alan doesn't like his martinis dirty. For those who don't know what makes a martini dirty is you take the olive brine from the jar and you add a little bit of that. It adds a nice little twist to it along the way. Yeah, it was

tasty. I felt like I was in MASH, right? That's what they were drinking. Oh, see, that's an interesting, you're showing your age there. I would have assumed you'd say Mad Men, but MASH is a good one too. Mad Men, I think of like the Manhattan or whatever. What's a Manhattan, by the way?

That's a drink, right? So is a Tom Collins, and I don't know what that is either. I know that, like, you're right. I watched a lot of Mad Men, and I loved Mad Men. And yeah, he would have, I think it was a Manhattan. He'd have, or yeah, I think so.

And when I think of a martini, I think of Hawkeye. Who is it? Who is Alan Elda's character? Was that Hawkeye? Yeah. You had BJ and Hawkeye. BJ and Hawkeye. I think of them in Korea and MASH, for sure.

And by the way, I think I was watching it in syndication, for what it's worth. So that explains. As opposed to first run. Right. You're not that old. Right. It wrapped up in 83, I think,

and I was pretty young. But by the way, MASH holds up. But if you can, source out the UK version of MASH because in the UK they aired it

without a laugh track. Oh, really? Yeah, and it makes a big difference to me. Anyways, I prefer my shows without a laugh track. I always have. I always wish Seinfeld had no laugh track. Oh, really? Yeah, and it makes a big difference to me. Anyways, I prefer my shows without a laugh track. I always have. I always wish Seinfeld had no laugh track, but sadly it's there.

But you can find a UK version of MASH without the laugh track, and it just makes for a better show. When my daughter was much younger and she had started watching YTV and all these smart-ass tween shows, I had to explain to her that the smart-ass comments

that the kid is making on TV, that's fine for him to say. It's not fine for you to say. And the reason why you think it's funny has have to do with the fact there's a laugh track. In the real world, kiddo, there is no laugh track to tell people that that was supposed to be a funny comment, not a hurtful comment. So dial back the snark. And your child's 11 now.

She is. As I say, going on 17, the eye rolls are starting to happen. I had, in the month of February, during my sabbatical from BNN, I had decided I'm not going to shave because I'd never been off long enough to actually see what it came in like. And her problem was that she didn't like the scratchy. So a lot of the affection dried up. Yeah, yeah. And so at the end of February, I'm like, you know what? She's at the age where at any moment she's going to start dialing back affection.

Generally, I don't want this to be the trigger. So I shaved. And everyone was disappointed that I shaved, which is funny because it looked just terrible. I was going to ask how. Look, I do that sometimes. I will just let it go out of negligence or whatever. And then two things happen. One is now four he's now four he just turned four but he'll tell me daddy your sticks are hurting me he calls up my sticks and my face and then i have to so i just got rid

of it yesterday even for that reason but also it really looks awful like i remember when the leafs had a playoff run and matt sundin was growing his playoff beard and it just looked terrible and i think mine looks even worse. So, yeah. Yeah, my problem is there are spots on the side of my mouth that don't come in. Yeah, me too. So I end up looking like the villain from the Bruce Willis movie, Die Hard. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking Team America, World Police.

Remember? There is that. The fake. Oh, that was a great little film. All right. So you wrote a tweet that surmises things nicely, but I'm going to read the tweet that you sent yesterday. Okay.

So I'm quoting you here. Isn't that interesting? The most popular podcast about Toronto media people wants to know what the hell I was thinking walking away from a 40-year mainstream media career and BNN. And then you have, and these are Twitter handles, so CTV News. Okay, let's cut to the chase here.

Yes. What the hell were you, I feel like Jay Leno talking to Hugh Grant here. What the hell were you thinking walking away from a 40-year mainstream media career? Well, if you read the tweet accurately, it's actually 40-year, which tells you that two things. One, I tweeted that without wearing my glasses. And two, I need glasses. It's actually 30-year, not 40-year. And what was I thinking? I was thinking a whole bunch of different things. Right, because you're too young to be 40-year anything. Yeah, yeah. Well, actually, I got into radio at 17.

But you're not 57 yet. Exactly. I'm 47. So that's the 30 year right there. Gotcha. I was going to high school. And overnight, I was working at what was then CKFM 99.9, now known as Virgin Radio. And I would do the overnight shift. And I was what they called the voice track op, the operator.

So the DJ would come in sometime in the afternoon, look at his playlist, introduce and extra the various songs, throw the commercial breaks, do it all in a reel-to-reel tape, and then leave it for me to come in just before midnight, cue it all up, and then act as the DJ except for the voice. 5.30 a.m. would roll around, the morning show would be on the air, I'd hit the subway, crash in the cafeteria at school until class started. And then the problem with that, as I've said before, is that that lifestyle catches up with you. And by about two in the afternoon, right in the middle of Mrs. Aguirre's business class, I would fall asleep. They never gave me any grief about it, though, because they knew I wasn't going out all liquored up, getting drunk and partying with my friends. First of all, I didn't have any friends.

And second, I didn't drink. But they knew that I was working towards something this early in my life, and so they sort of gave me a pass on it. And that was 30 years ago. Can you believe it? Wow. Yeah. So, all right.

So I guess your question is, why now? So let's talk. Many of us know you from BNN. You're on posters and stuff. You're like one of the faces of BNN. You're on posters and stuff. You're one of the faces of BNN. Yeah. One of my all-time favorite career moments was walking into the lobby of 299 Queen Street West, which many Canadians know as the Much Music Building, and having this life-size poster of me in the lobby. I didn't normally go through the front door, but I happened to go through the front door this day, and sure enough, there it was. So that was a career highlight, matched only by them putting

my face on the outside of the building not too long after, and walking down the street after the Santa Claus parade one year when my daughter was quite young, pointing up at the picture of me, going, look, look, and she couldn't have cared less. It was no big deal to her. As far as she was concerned, Daddy was a big shot TV guy, and this is what happens to him every day. She had no idea that this was a huge moment as far as I was concerned. So you're 17 years at BNN? 17 years and eight months, apparently. Okay, so when you were here with Alan Cross for episode 249, at that time when you were here, did you know you were going to quit?

No, but I did know that I had a big anniversary coming up. As a matter of fact, I had planned a big-time thank-you party for my 25th for everyone who helped make me who I am today. And it wasn't until I did the math that I realized, oh, crap, the 25th was last year. So I never ended up doing that. I still didn't do I did the math that I realized, oh, crap, the 25th was last year. So I never ended up doing that. I still didn't do anything for the 30th other than a goodbye party thrown by my former colleagues. But back in November of 2017, I started thinking that, you know, this is going to be a big milestone.

But it wasn't until the new year and all of that had come into play with changes at BNN that I thought, you know what, this is a milestone. This is a good time to put a pin in it. Because usually in this line of work, you never get to say goodbye. Someone taps you on the shoulder one day and hands you a pink slip and you just disappear. So I thought with the evolution of BNN and the fact that I already kind of gone down that path once before when it was report on business television in its launch days, it's time for something new. And at 46, I'm still young enough to create a third career for myself, whereas it would be a heck of a lot harder to do that at 52, 56, if I was given 10 more years by the broadcast gods to continue in the operation. So I thought, you know what? I'm young enough.

I've got the skills to be able to move on now. We should probably do this strike while the iron is hot. Now, before I ask you the obvious, which is what next, I want to know, did you consider lingering just to get the severance? Because Bell Media, how many years did you put in there? They say goodbye. I'm making up a number now. They might give you a year's salary or more to part ways.

Did you feel like maybe you should hang around for that? It was a negotiated exit through the month of February and March. And so at the end of March, the lawyers had done everything that they needed to do. I got the phone call saying, come on down and sign the big novelty check. And I did. And that was the end of that. So yeah, I want to put a pin in that though,

because there was another thing very early in my career, I got some really, really good advice. As I said, I started in radio at 17, but after I graduated high school, I knew I needed a piece of paper. So I went to Humber College, despite all of the DJs saying, just get out there, just get the experience, get going. I knew I needed a piece of paper. And sure enough, my first boss on Airboss told me that they would never have hired me if I didn't have it. But what I was thinking was that, oh man, I think I've lost my train of thought. No, that's because you probably had a few martinis. No, no, no. This is an early morning

start. Ultimately, the upshot is that I went to Humber. I did that and I did a good job of that. Oh, the instructor. Okay, yes. Murray Smith. I don't even know if Murray is still with us, but he used to be a motorcycle cop who got into radio, and from there ended up being an instructor at Humber. And he gave me the best advice I had ever received from Humber, which was, when you get your first on-air paycheck, I want you to go down to the bank, and I want you to deposit that. But while you're there, I want you to open up a second bank account.

Now, this is the point in the story where I need to ask you, do you swear on this show? You can swear, yeah. Because he did. He's in front of a group of 30 of us. He said, I want you to open up a second bank account. I want you to label that the fuck off fund

because there's going to be a point in your radio career where you're looking at your manager and you're looking at him like he's an idiot and you want to tell him to go fuck off. But you don't have the cash. So you don't, and you suffer through it. But if you put aside a little bit of cash, every single paycheck, at some point you will have enough cash to help you through it. Now, that is not what happened with me and BNN, but it was the best advice I could have ever received when it comes to being

able to have a certain degree of financial security. The other side of it, too, is that there's a benefit to being the most watched business guy in the country is you're getting a lot of really good advice along the way. And I was taking that good advice, much like the old story about the limousine driver who listens in on the big shot CEO's conversations on his way into work every morning and just takes his stock tip advice. Same sort of thing. And you probably, no, actually, let me first find out. Okay. So now that you've exited and you got to do it on your own terms instead of waiting for that tap on the shoulder and saying, hey, here's a pink slip, which is awesome, by the way, and good for you. But what is the plan now? What is the plan for you, Michael Hainsworth, in this next chapter of

your professional life? We've always been told that it's easier to find a job when you've got a job. But my attitude is it's easier to find the right job when you make it your full-time job to find it in the first place. And with the cushion that my family and I have as a result of very good advice and very understanding people at the Business News Network and CTV News. I have this cushion that allows me to figure out what's next. And the crazy thing is, is I have never been busier. I have used my iPhone's calendar feature more in the last month than I have in the 11 years prior to them inventing the thing. This conversation that we're having right now is so it's hitting me in all these like similar spots and that I'm doing something very similar.

I'm negotiating kind of an exit from my full time job. Like as we speak, this is ongoing right now. And I'm now planning the next chapter of my professional life. And a lot of the things you're describing here, like, since this was realized that this was happening, I've never been busier, much like you're describing. And you talk about your iCal and your Apple world. Well, to me, the same is true with my Google calendar. And it is every day there's a different meeting, whether for coffee or just a networking or a call. Every day I have something planned as I sort of strategize and plan this next chapter. Maybe offline when this is all said and done,

at some point you and I should have a chat because there's a lot of interesting parallels as I listen. The thing for me is that I'm kind of like a shark. If I stop moving, I die. Everybody said, oh, you should take some time off, take the family to Disney World kind of thing. And I would come back from that vacation and sit on the couch. And so I knew that there was a certain amount of momentum that came with the announcement of my resignation from BNN, and that I needed to capitalize on that. The phone's been ringing. I've been dialing myself as well. And it's been a remarkable experience over the last little while, and I'm really quite blessed for it. But what specifically do you hope to do? Like, it sounds like you're building towards something here, but can you give us a clue, let us in maybe on what specifically you would be doing to make money in the future?

Well, I've decided that at the very top, if you want to sort of create a pyramid of what the most important things are and you work your way down, whatever is next for TV's Michael Hainsworth, it has to be a craft. And people in many respects don't really understand or see just how much of a craft broadcasting truly is. The number of times I've had people who think that it's easy to be on TV because I saw that guy on TV. It looks easy. Well, if TV or radio looks easy or sounds easy, it's because the person doing it behind the scenes knows what they're doing and they're doing a very good job of it. of people who treat my chosen profession as a hobby, and nothing drives me more nuts than people just waltzing in to a studio, sitting down and thinking that because they watch TV, they can make TV. So the craft of it is the critical component to me, whether it be TV, radio, or real estate, for that matter. Whatever it is, it's going to have to be something that I can hone and build upon over time. I would prefer to stay within the realm of what I've known over the last 30 years because I've amassed a remarkable amount of understanding about not just how to make

good radio or television, video or audio, if you want to think about it in digital terms, but also that it takes time to build something. And I want to do something that requires time to build. So you're going to start building porches for people. the epiphany that I had not too long ago, that if I pulled the ripcord on my 30-year mainstream media career, and it was an abject failure trying to accomplish whatever next is, that what is so, well, I was going to say what is so hard, it's not true, but it's possible to do something completely unrelated. And I had that moment driving home when I realized the conversation I had with Desmond Brown, who was a CTV Toronto reporter for all sorts of years, threw it, I was gonna say threw it all away, he wouldn't say so, to get back into real estate

after being in it before he was on TV. And he said to me something that was really important to me and helped me out a lot, which was that, yes, he misses it when something big happens. But what he doesn't miss now are his kids' hockey games. And that family is that much more important to him. And I completely understood where he was coming from. Any truth to the rumor that when you were lobbying to get the Steve Anthony job on CP24 Breakfast and when you didn't get it because George Lagaganis got the job that you rage quit? Is there any truth to this rumor? Are you making this up?

Yeah, I made that up. Okay. I have never heard that one. yourself from time to time, in my world anyway, is that you come across these chat rooms that have the most outrageous lies about you. And my favorite one was, there was a guy that I used to interview all the time on a show called Market Call. It was a 60-minute phone-in show. And he's what they call a quantitative analyst. In other words, he's come up with some top-secret algorithm that tells him whether or not he should buy or sell something. And the problem with that being top secret is it

makes it very difficult to have chatty style conversations about why he says buy or sell. And so sometimes the conversations can be very curt as a result. And this guy, Brian Acker, is also quite a personality in and to himself. So it was really funny. I stumbled one day upon a rumor that he and I had a big blowout screaming match in a commercial break and I had banned him from the show, which is really a weird thing to say because not only did he keep showing up, but I kept interviewing him as well. And we developed quite a rapport over the course of all my time there. So it was always really funny to see how people just pulled

these things out of their butts. That's great. By the way, David Russ wrote me a note to say he wrote, does he think he's a liberal MPP and he has to run? He was always a pleasure to listen to. So David will miss you and many others.

But David Russ, I wanted to give him a shout out. He's going to miss hearing you but he might hear you again it sounds like I would hope so the funny thing about that though is that he's not the first person to suggest that I should be running right now

but have you ever thought about running because is this something that maybe the future holds oh god no I wouldn't give a politician's troubles to a monkey on a rock. And, of course, the natural sway would be, well, you know, you've got that business background. Why don't you do the finance portfolio? I would not give the finance minister's job to two monkeys on a rock.

My grandfather spent 31 years as a municipal politician. And I was in that orbit for some time, and I got a sense of it. But as much as there's value in giving your life to public service like that, I don't have the stomach for having to fight for your job every four years. A friend of the show, Mark Weisblatt, who comes on every quarter to talk about what's happening in Canadian media. He's got the newsletter 1236. He writes, his main issue with you, he called you Mr. Mike, by the way. By the way, you're Michael Hainsworth. Yes.

And I'm Toronto Mike. To me, I've always felt Michael sounded too pretentious or something, but maybe that was my thought. I was born with this name too. Michael Hainsworth. Could you not find a more pretentious name than Michael Hainsworth? But you're in business news, so it makes sense. You got to sound professional or whatever. So I can see why you went Michael and I went Mike.

I always hated Michael. I always went Mike. But would you consider now that you're in the next chapter, maybe now you're Mike Hainsworth? No, absolutely not. First of all, there's a branding component to it, right? So you've got to stick with that. There's a reason why McDonald's is still McDonald's. Not that me my entire life or they don't know me at all. I had an uncle growing up named Mike who was a very troubled individual. And the horror stories were just remarkable. And so the family made a very big point of pointing out that I am not Mike. I am Michael. Because we wanted to differentiate between the bad egg and the

kid who's just getting his life going. Gotcha, gotcha. So for Mark Weisblot, when he calls you Mr. Mike, either he's known you your whole life or he doesn't know you at all. Which one is it for Mark? Well, he doesn't know me at all, but I know Mark. And the beauty about Mark Weisblot is that I remember very early in my radio career that he was an armchair news director, armchair radio guy, and everyone in the business hated that guy's guts. But he stuck through it. He kept going and he's turned himself into an authority figure because he's put that much effort over so many years into understanding that radio is a craft. And he gets that. And I think that's probably the basis behind the armchair quarterback-like nature

of him in the early days. He understood that you had to be good at this and you had to get better. Well, here's his issue with you, Mr. Mike. I'm going to read it. He wrote it. Him, and he's talking about you, jumping in at every turn to say you had no right to comment on the broadcasting business if you weren't employed in it like he was. But now he's quit that business. So I think his point there is that. Did I deflate his argument by complimenting him going into it? You know, I've never met the guy. I wouldn't know him if I walked past him on the street.

But he was the bane of every early broadcaster's existence back when he first got going. But this is a man who knew what he loved and stuck to it. Are you telling me that he's not doing this anymore? No, you're not doing it anymore. Yeah, that's right. I'm not doing it anymore. All right. He's still doing it. He'd want me to say that you could subscribe to his newsletter at 1236.ca. Michael, do Michael. See, no more Mike for you. You're Michael again. That's the branding. Do you speak French?

No. I spent my French classes in high school learning how to twirl a pen around my thumb. Yeah, me too. You know that little routine there? I learned it from the kid in front of me. It took me 14 French classes and so now I can do that. And the funny thing is I had to train myself to stop doing it in the middle of interviews

because it was distracting to the people I was talking to. But I would use that to my advantage from time to time. What about your 11-year-old? Is she by any chance in French immersion?

We talked a lot about that. She's very good at French. We looked at the possibility, and we ultimately left it up to her. And she had decided that she didn't want to go full French immersion. I did it in grade 5, and it almost cost me my scholastic career. Wow. Okay. Well, there's for your 11-year-old, but since she's in this age range of 4 to 14, there's a camp for her at Camp Tournesol.

So if you did want her to want to witness her French skills explode over the summer, then you do send her to one of the Camp Tournesol French camps. Because even if your child is Francophone or in French immersion or has no French experience, they have a daycare. Daycare, did I say that? That's because I just dropped my kids off at daycare in the wagon, in the snow, in the ice. It was a lot of work to do that,

but this is a day camp. So they have a day camp or an overnight experience for your child. So go to campt.ca, check out all the programs they have for your child. Again, ages four to 14. And when you book them for something this summer,

use the promo code Mike, because I'm a Mike. So don't do Michael. That would be for TV's Michael Hainsworth. I do want to hear the origin of that term you keep using, TV's Michael Hainsworth. I do want to know about that. So everybody go to camptea.ca. They've got great

camps to teach French to your child, and again, the promo code is Mike. So Michael Hainsworth, how do you become TV's Michael Hainsworth? What is that inside joke I feel I'm missing? When I started at Report on Business Television, one of the technical guys, Mike Christensen, had found himself on my webpage. Mike Christensen had found himself on my web page, and he had found a photo of me holding my Late Show with David Letterman entrance ticket, standing next to Marcus G. What was his name? Was it Marcus G? No, I know a Marcus G. Anyway, point being is that he found this photo, and he had printed it off, taped it into the makeup room, and started calling me TV's Michael Hainsworth. He was my floor director. He was actually a floater. And so he did all the different jobs

in the television control room and studio, including being a floor director. And so he liked to try to throw me off. He liked to try to make me crack up on air. And the harder he tried, the less likely it was he was going to get me to crack up. The closest he ever got, though, was standing right next to my camera while I'm reading Teleprompter. He was a bit of a larger boy at the time. Lifted up his shirt to reveal his Austin Powers fat bastard belly. That didn't work. So he kept raising his T-shirt higher and higher until he revealed his nipples and started playing with them while I'm reading network news. You can't do that anymore.

I think that we can't do that anymore because they fired all the floor directors. The bean counters took control of the business. Oh, I'm sad to hear that. That's too bad. But here, let me lighten things up by telling everybody. And I think Ann Deuce handles your finances, right? Like if you've got bills to pay, Anne's taking care of them. That's right.

She handles the day-to-day. I handle the old and gray. Right. Gord Stelic was just here. And same thing. His wife handles all of that stuff, and he doesn't handle any of it. But if you men out there want to take control of your finances again, here's what you do. This is what I do.

I use Paytm. It's an app I downloaded for free from paytm.ca. I manage all of my bills in this thing and I pay all of my bills from property tax to Enbridge to Hydro to whatever. I pay them all. I use my credit card and I use my Paytm cash and I do it all with the Paytm app and it's super easy. card and I use my Paytm cash and I do it all with the Paytm app and it's super easy. It's like gamified bill payment. Like I don't miss a bill. I make money for paying my bills. And when you make your first bill payment with Paytm, use the promo code Toronto Mike, all one word, because they'll give you $10. You get $10 right away to use towards a future bill. $10 just for using the promo code Toronto Mike. It's free money. That is the second commercial you've just slid into in the middle of this show.

I didn't even notice. I'm blown away. It's just an accident. I've got a podcast. We need to hire you to be the sales guy. I'm available. Clearly. Digital services.

There's exciting news on that front coming very, very, very soon. All right. You're a martini guy, so I almost feel like I feel bad doing this, but somebody in your life will benefit greatly that I'm going to give you a six-pack of Great Lakes beer. And a glass? Am I getting the glass? You get the glass as well. So Great Lakes Brewery is giving you the beer. They're a local craft brewery here in Etobicoke.

They wrote that script at the beginning and they've got the word Etobicoke in there three times. And every time I say the third Etobicoke my mind, I almost lose track of where I am because I think that's way too many Etobicokes. Like there's three Etobicokes. All their beer, I guess to keep it super

fresh, they don't go beyond Etobicoke so they can these things in south Etobicoke, so they can these things in South Etobicoke, and they stick them on a truck, and they drive them to wherever they're going to be sold. And it's all in Ontario to keep it super, super, super fresh. But I feel like I say Ontario too many times. You know, there's a school of thought that would completely disagree with your concern. And that's their school of thought. Well, exactly. Repetition in advertising is critical. One of the things that I learned very early in my career is the telephone number. If you don't give out the telephone number

twice, don't give it out at all. And little things like that. So you're punching the right words because they clearly want everyone to know where they're from. Yeah. So I raised this concern with the guy who wrote the script, and that's exactly what he said. They want to over-repeat the word Ontario because this is where 99.99% of the Great Lakes beer is sold here in Ontario. So now it's, now you won't drink that beer, right? You're going to pass that on

to a neighbor or your wife? I think I'm going to pass it on to my next-door neighbor, because he's the one who suffered the brunt of that Romeo 120-year-old oak tree that fell, hit his house, destroyed his portico, just grazed mine and destroyed my porch. But that poor guy just moved in,

just got a new kid, and the same day that tree fell, his wife lost her mother. Oh, no. My goodness. But not to the tree. Not to the tree. But the sad news,

but thankfully that wasn't tree-related. No, not at all. But when it rains, it pours. And we were talking to my little one about that whole idea that, you know, bad things come in threes. Anne believes that. I just sort of figure the universe is what it is. Yeah, I'm with you because everything's in threes if you wait long enough. Like, you're going to get, you know, like, come on.

Everything's in threes. I always, that always irked me a little bit when there'll be a couple of celebrity deaths and then, oh, there's going to be a third one. You know what? There will be a third one. Just give it enough time and there will be a third one. Please.

But, you know, sorry, Anne, but we both think that's a little bit of nonsense. But you mentioned the pint glass. The pint glass goes home with you. It's from Brian Gerstein. Speaking of phone numbers, I'm going to say it twice like you told me to. 416-873-0292.

That's 416-873-0292. Call Brian if you're planning to buy and or sell in the next six months. He's got a message for you, Michael. So let's listen to Brian. Hi, Michael. Brian Gerstein here. Propertyinthe6.com which looks to be this Wednesday, and put it behind us, I fully expect a very active real estate market with a lot of buyers coming out approved and ready to buy. We are now at a point where getting pre-approved for a mortgage at a higher interest rate than the posted one and qualifying with the stress test is now the new normal. Call me at 416-873-0292 about listing your home as there is not a lot of time left to take advantage.

I need one week's notice to arrange my pre-sale home inspection, professional floor plans, and get the photography and videography ready. Michael, curious if you are as much a fan of Silicon Valley as I am, and who is your favorite character if you are? I'm going to disappoint him because I couldn't stand that show. Alan gave me grief about it on our podcast. Oh, maybe that's where it's coming from. I'm actually curious

what prompted him to pick that show. I assumed maybe he saw something on the web that you were a fan of the show. That was my assumption. Well, I think there is an assumption that I left 30 years of mainstream media because I'm going to a startup. I actually have been having a very interesting conversation with a startup that has some really

neat things that they want to do that I'm sure they wouldn't want me talking about right now. So I'm providing them with some advice and giving them some guidance on a few things at this point. And the weird thing is, is that if I was to join a startup, it would be a complete 180 to what I'm accustomed to. And it would be taking me completely out of my comfort zone. And considering I've already taken myself out of my comfort zone by walking away from a stable job, it's definitely something that intrigues me. But Alan's like, oh, yeah, you got to watch Silicon Valley. And I just don't have any frame of reference. It's the same reason why I don't watch The Office.

I've never had an office job. So I don't really relate to a lot of the personalities and the interactions. Because in media, WKRP in Cincinnati does a great job of explaining how weird and wacky it is to work in media in general. And some of the experiences I've had in broadcasting would just mortify people in every other line of work. And other little things, I guess, we talked about off the top, your workflow, your productivity, how much faster and harder you have to work to get a job done. When I would ask somebody, a team member on my show, I need this. I mean, I need it now.

I don't need it in an hour. I need it now. And I would get it right then and there. So it would be a huge cultural shift to get into the startup world, just as it would be to get into the regular office world, for that matter. And you did try this show then. Alan enjoys this show.

Yeah, he does. I gave it one episode, and then that was sort of the end of it there. I'm a big fan, or at least I was a big fan, of T.J. Miller, although there's an actor who's blowing up big time at this point. This guy could end up five years in jail for calling out a bomb threat. I just read that, right? I was trying to think, where did I read that name recently? Right, he called it some bomb threat. But prior to that, he was a comedian and a very funny comedian. My favorite Twitter profile photo is T.J. Miller's Twitter profile photo

because it looks like he clearly just ripped somebody's heart out with his bare hand, and now he's just casually surfing the internet. I thought you were going to say the show that you enjoyed was TJ Hooker, and I was thinking William Shatner. There's a throwback for you right there. I don't think I've told the good people listening that we're, at some point

very, very soon, we're going to learn a great deal about you, Michael, because we're going to kick out the jams together, and I think this is the best way to really get to know somebody. Or the lawyers of the RIAA. No, we don't talk about that on this show. No, I'm just kidding. I'm working under the radar here. I know Alan doesn't have this luxury, but the independent guy in his basement sometimes finds it easier to beg for forgiveness than to... That has always been my rule of thumb. You always beg forgiveness. You never ask permission. Good. We're on the same page.

But let me ask you this question. And Brian, maybe, I'm thinking maybe, was Brian... So there is a Silicon Valley connection between the Geeks and Beats podcast and a Silicon Valley. Because Alan watches, but you are not the fan. No. Couldn't care less. I've never seen an episode, but I was wondering if I should try, but you've talked me out of it.

Yeah. Didn't grab you. And in this day and age, and I have a TV critic coming on tomorrow, Bill O'Brien, and I'm suffering from paradox of choice, like big time, and that there's too much everywhere. And I'm at a point now where everything is awesome and I can't start anything. It's like when you go to the drugstore to buy toothpaste and you need toothpaste and there's a hundred

different varieties of toothpaste and I don't know what to buy. This is where I'm at with television. I'm a big fan right now of Lost in Space. Watching it with the Wii One right now. She's getting a big kick out of that. We've been watching Love on Netflix as well. But there's a Three's Company kind of component to that that I

don't like. I don't like plot lines where if one of the characters simply spoke up, the entire premise would evaporate and all the problems would be resolved immediately. That is Three's Company. That's right. Somebody would hear something in the other room and it would be out of

context and they'd misunderstand what it meant, and they'd run with that, and they would create a whole... That damn Mr. Roper. Yeah, I was going to say Mr. Furley, but yeah, Mr. Roper first, and then Mr. Furley. The Ropers got screwed, can I tell you? Because the Ropers were on that show,

and they left to do a spinoff called The Ropers. So they leave to do the spinoff. The spinoff is canceled very, very quickly, but they were already replaced by Mr. Furley, Don Knotts, and they weren't welcomed back. And so they got, to me, you're on a hit show, let's spin you off. It didn't work out

and you don't get to go back to your hit show. That sucks. Yeah, I think part of the problem is Mr. Roper himself was not a likable character. His wife was the likable character. And Mr. Furley was Mr. Furley. So everybody loves Don Knotts, of course, from the Ronable character. And Mr. Furley was Mr. Furley. So everybody loves Don Knotts, of course, from the Ron Howard show.

And that's the funny thing about growing old, is that I'm finding that my daughter being exposed to famous actors, that's her frame of reference for that actor, not everything that came before that. So my first exposure to Don Knotts was Three's Company, oblivious to the fact that this was a major actor and it was a big deal that they landed this guy to play that role. Yes. And with all those examples, you kind of go back in retrospect, like at some point you learn, oh, Don Knotts was famous for this, that, and the

other before Three's Company. And then you sort of know it going forward, but you're right in real time, you know him as the guy from Three's Company. The then you sort of know it going forward. But you're right, in real time, you know him as the guy from Three's Company. The ultimate was Sir Alec Guinness. What do you mean Obi-Wan Kenobi had a job before Star Wars? That's a great example. That's a great example. And my four-year-old has got a book where each episode, well, the first seven movies are synopsed in these five-minute stories. So it's kind of like we're going through each of these Star Wars episodes in this like child friendly format and he's knowing

the characters and it's kind of a neat gateway to the Star Wars universe that we're going through there. Michael, here's the big question. Are you ready to kick out the jams? Punch it, Chewie. This was the song I had playing in the car all the way home from signing my goodbye BNN check. It's the perfect movie trailer song, right? It's in a lot of movie trailers.

It is, and it's got tremendous meaning to it as well. Climbing up on Salisbury Hill I could see the city light Wind was blowing, time stood still Eagle flew out of the night He was something to observe. Came in close, I heard a voice. Standing, stretching every nerve.

I had to listen, had no choice. I did not believe the information. Just had to trust imagination My heart going boom, boom, boom Son, he said, grab your things I'm going to take you home You know, I can see you driving off from signing those papers at CTV.

I can see you in my mind's eye. When I first heard this song, I thought it was something very different from what it was. It sort of sounds like a Christ metaphor, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The water into wine line specifically is what jumps out for me at that.

But I had subsequently learned, and thanks to Geeks and Beats over the course of the last five years, what the song was really about was Peter Gabriel's decision to leave Genesis. And, you know, until I thought of what I'd say, which connection I would cut. Right on cue. And I was feeling part of the scenery. And I literally walked right out of the machinery

of the biggest TV factory in the country. Matches up perfectly. And no regrets at all, right? There's no regrets. No, no, none whatsoever. And it has, again, thanks in part to Desmond Brown, letting me know that it's okay to miss it. That was one of the biggest things that I had to get around was not being TV's Michael Williams anymore. And the funny irony was that after signing the papers and having lunch with my dad, I dropped him off, drove home to find this tree on my front porch.

What was was that I recognize that there's always going to be a time when you're going to miss it. And as the fire truck pulled up because the power lines have come down, the first firefighter to get out of the cab looks at me and goes, hey, you look familiar. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to have to get used to that and not being able to say, yes, I'm on TV. That's not my world at the moment. Great jam, man. Peter Gabriel's solo career is incredible it's uh i think it's not as incredible as genesis and no i was gonna say he's like the don knots i think where it's like you only know

him as a solo artist and then you learn oh this guy was in a band oh okay you you zig when i expected to zag because i i sort of see the irony in this is that he was never as successful as Phil Collins in Genesis versus Peter Gabriel in Genesis. True. I'm hoping that my success continues and that it isn't eclipsed by what I left behind. Right. But I would argue that Peter Gabriel's solo career eclipsed his work in Genesis. solo career eclipsed his work in Genesis and your post-BNN life

will eventually prove to be of more value to you than your work with the conglomerate. And if I'm lucky, I will get to work with the broadcast equivalent to Kate Bush at some point. Oh man, when Ziggy was here I played, that was her song when

Ziggy Lawrence on Much Music would play that to end one of her shows i can't remember which track the the hug song i don't give up uh don't give up that's right right right right peter gabriel and k bush right that was their uh but i just want to give a shout out to the video for sledgehammer because uh played of course ad nausea i played all the time on Much Music. And whenever they did those countdowns,

they would do a periodic like top 30 videos of all time. It was always top five, if not number one, depending on where they put Michael Jackson, I guess.

But Sledgehammer video was incredible. Yeah, the stop motion work that was required to make that possible at the time was pretty substantial. You ready to kick out

another jam? Hit me. Journeys Don't Stop Believin'. Perhaps one of the best rock and roll songs of all time. That's a bold statement there. Well, there's a reason for that. Just a small town girl Living in a lonely world

She took the midnight train Going anywhere Just a city boy Morning raising Softy trucks He took the midnight train Going anywhere A singer in a smoky room A smell of wine and cheap perfume For a smile they can share the night

It goes on and on and on and on Strangers waiting Up and down the boulevard There's shadows searching in the night Streetlights, people There's a jam for you. This was the basis of an entire episode of my Geeks and Beats podcast. I mentioned that my neighbor next door had the tree fall on his house more than it did mine. I'm in the garage working on a restoration project.

And while I'm working on it, the next door neighbor is in his basement with the back door open and windows open and they're working away and this song comes on and all i could hear was he and his wife belting out the lyrics and the funny thing was was that and you know this with a favorite song is that you can hear it in your head even when you're not hearing it on the radio so in in between verses, I'd hear jackhammering and banging away. And then just as it would crescendo again to the next verse, the jackhammering would stop. They would get back to singing. And it was amazing. And I thought, what is it about this song that so many of us will get all liquored up at a bar and grab a karaoke microphone. You'll sing it in your car at the top of your lungs, stuck in traffic. And so we brought on a former producer for Alanis Morissette

to analyze the song and explain it to us. And he taught us some really interesting things about the nature of the song. One of the things is that it's sung at an octave that makes it very easy for women to sing and easy for men to sing at an octave that makes it very easy for women to sing and easy for men to sing at an octave below it. So unless you're Steve Perry and you've got that range, you would just take it down a notch if you were male.

And then the other thing is that it has a structure that is completely the antithesis of traditional songwriting. The verse that everyone knows, Don't Stop Believing, literally doesn't come in until the last 58 seconds of the song. Interesting. Oh, and by the way, South Detroit,

you know where South Detroit is. It's Windsor, right? It's Windsor. Just a fluke of the nature of the geography is there's no such thing as South Detroit. It's Windsor, Ontario. Oh, but it sounds good in that lyric, man. Well, that's what Perry was asked when he was told, hey, you know, there's no such thing as South Detroit. It's Windsor, Ontario. Oh, but it sounds good in that lyric, man. Well, that's what Perry was asked when he was told, hey, you know, there's no such thing

as South Detroit. That's Windsor, Ontario. His response was, well, I tried all the other different ones, East and West, and it just didn't have the same sound. So that's why I liked it. When I hear that song, all I see in my head is the final episode of The Sopranos. Well, that was part of that episode of Geeks and Beats as well, is that part of what makes the song very popular again in popular culture was that it was in that final scene of The Sopranos. And I have to say, I'm very proud of myself for mixing in the actual song

with the clip from the TV show as well. So I'd love it if you go to Geese and Beats and check that out. But the neat thing about that was that it came at the end in a way that ended the whole franchise that led people to talk. So while you were talking about that scene, you kind of had in the back of your head

the actual journey track playing in your mind. And I think that's what's really brought it back to being as culturally relevant today and used as often as the Family Guy used it. One of my all-time favorite Family Guy scenes. Glee did a bunch of stuff with this song. I know at least the first season anyway, it was a big part of that season. But yes, I think guys our age, it's Sopranos.

And then for the younger set, it's Glee. But you're right. It keeps coming back. It's one of those songs that keeps coming back. But yeah, I love it. Let's kick out another jam. This song was insanely popular when I was in high school. I was not at least at all popular in high school. So I didn't really get into the English beat until university and beyond, but if I had been cool enough, this would have been the track. We'll be right back. Thank you. I'm out. You're my mirror in the bathroom Mirror in the bathroom Recompense for all my crimes of self-defense

Cures you whisper, make no sense Drip gently into mental illness We're in the bathroom, please talk free The door is locked, just you and me Can I take you to a restaurant That's got glass tables You can watch yourself While you are eating Beer in the bathroom

Beer in the bathroom Beer in the bathroom Beer in the bathroom Beer in the bathroom Beer in the bathroom I'm there in the back room So for me, what made this song a jam I wanted to play had everything to do with my podcast. One of my favorite interviews of all time at Geeks and Beats was Dave Wakeling of English Beat.

And in England, they're just The Beat, right? This is only here, they're English Beat? I think that's what it is, yeah. They had a not-so-amical parting of the ways of the two main guys, and so they split the planet in half, and they both travel as the English beat and do their own separate things. But what it was was I had put it out to the audience saying, if you've got a question for Dave Wakeling, fire it off. And someone fired off the question, where is that mirror in the bathroom? And I felt really self-conscious. What, it was 30 years after the guy wrote the track?

Asking what would have probably been the first question Erica M ever asked on Much Music of the guy. To ask it again, I was really self-conscious about it. But the fact that somebody else had asked that question gave me the ability to say, somebody else asked you this ridiculous question that I'm sure you've gotten a billion times. And it was a great answer. And it was the highlight of the interview. And it reminded me that you've got to put your pride aside. You've got to put your ego aside and ask the questions that people want answers to. And the answer to the question, where is the mirror in the bathroom? He was working at a construction job, a Joe job, while he was still trying to get his music career off the ground. He was couch surfing, living on his sister's couch, staring at the mirror in her bathroom, convincing himself, just go to work, just get it done. I know you hate this job, but you got to do it. And so it was a way for him to talk himself into getting into a job he didn't want to do. And he said that he had actually written the entire song by the time he had arrived via motorcycle to the job site,

did his job, finished writing the song, and the rest is history. Do you know Erica M. told me she would do this podcast, but she doesn't want to talk about much music? Do you know that? That's a weird thing. I wonder what happened. She said she's sick of talking about much music and she'll come on, but she won't talk about much music. And we politely parted ways because I can't have Erica M sitting here and not, I can't have her on and not talk about. That's the opposite of real talk.

I have to ask her about much music. No, I agree. You never want your guests to dictate the topics. So no, Eric M. But the good news for everybody out there listening is that Master T is coming on soon. So we're going to talk a lot of MuchMusic and Master T. But let's kick out another jam.

I'm sorry I've left my card at home. Well, you're late as well. That's three times on the run. If you're late again, the supervisor says we're going to put you on daily sign. If you're late again, the supervisor says we're going to put you on daily sign. Ha! So many people hate this version of Bruce Springsteen's Born to Run. It is my all-time favorite version of this. Thank you. It's a bone from your back, it's a death trap, it's a suicide rap. You've got to get up while we're young.

Cause just like us, baby, we were born to love. When you let me in, I wanna be your friend I wanna guide your dreams and visions Just wrap your legs around these welded hips And shake your hands, cause my engines Together we could break this trap We'll run till we drop, baby, we'll never go back Oh, will you walk with me out on the wild

Cause baby, I'm a scared and lonely liar And I've gotta know how it feels I wanna know love's wild I wanna know that love is real I'm about to rise About to ride guitar solo Beyond the palace Semi-powered drones

Scream down the boulevard Girls call me In review mirrors And the boys try to look so hard The amusement park Rises bold and stark As kids are huddled on a beach in the mist I wanna die with you

And you're the shit tonight In an everlasting kiss Highway shared with broken heroes On a last-gen power drive Everybody's out on the run tonight But there's no place left to hide Together with you we can run with the sadness I'll love you with all the madness in my soul Oh, Sunday girl, I don't know when

We'll get to the place that we really wanna go And we'll walk in the sun But till then Baby we were born to run Baby we were born to run Sounds like us Baby we were born to run Oh, oh, oh I think it's absolutely awesome. Frankie Goes to Hollywood was my early teenage introduction to euphemism and metaphor in music.

Their biggest track was Relax. And they swore up and down when it came out that it wasn't about sex. But it clearly was. Or the when you want to come. Right, exactly. And so that was my introduction to that whole idea that maybe music isn't exactly what it sounds like. So I was thinking about picking that particular one. But because these guys do such an awesome version of The Boss, I had to go with this.

I listen to it more than I listen to the Springsteen version, such that when I do listen to Bruce's version, I'm like, why is it so slow? Right. But let me guess and tell me if I'm wrong. Did you hear the cover before the original? No, no. But the cover, I almost wore the grooves out of the compact disc because that entire album, Welcome to the Pleasure Dome, is an

amazing album, the whole thing front to back. Because I find with myself, if I hear a song, the cover version first, because I'm a young man and I'm into the band or whatever, and then later I realize, oh, it's a cover, and then I get introduced to the original, sorry, Forever, I preferred that cover I heard and fell in love

with first. Yeah, going on up to the Spirit in the Sky, that's an example of one for me like that, too. Signs, there's, who was it, who was it, somebody, a band, Tesla, right? Tesla, right. Tesla did Signs.

Tesla does Signs and I can't believe, I love this song, I know all the words and everything and then I hear Five Man Acoustic, no, Five Man Electrical Band,

I think. Is that how it is? Yes. And, right, because the Tesla album was called Five Man Acoustic Jam,

I think. That's where it gets, anyway, long story short is, I'll still stick on the Tesla version. And you are the furthest thing from a long haired hippie freak. Hey there, Mr.

Can't you read? Oh man, that's a great, great jam, but let's kick out another Michael Hainsworth jam. Yeah, this is a little bit different. How's this for a zig when you expect a zag?

Sarah McLaughlin's fear. How's this for a zig when you expect to zag? Sarah McLachlan's Fear. Sounds great in the headphones, man. This is a flash to the first love of my life. Morning smiles Like the face of a newborn child Innocent and naive Winter is here

Promises of a long lost friend Speaks to me I've come from But I fear it I have nothing to give I have so nothing to give I have so much to lose here in this lonely place Take all of it, I'll embrace There's nothing I'd like better than to fall I'm here to live

But I fear I have nothing to give Wind in time Wraps the blood trembling on the vine Nothing yields to shelter From above They say temptation will destroy your life And never ever hurt her But I fear I have nothing to give I have so much to lose here in this lonely place

Take all of it, I'll embrace There's nothing I'm not worthy of But I fear I have nothing to give I have so much to lose I have nothing to give I have so much to lose I have so much to lose I have so much to lose That part there where you hear it go back and forth in the headset

reminds me of what would come later from Radiohead in Everything in Its Right Place, where it has that same kind of a sound bouncing back and forth. The ethereal sound is particularly of interest to me. Every time I hear that track, I get an immediate flashback to the first real serious girlfriend that I had. You were looking for tracks that sort of told a story about who I am. And that one, along with the next couple, are about women in my life. Ironically, not about my wife. I don't have one about my wife. The funny thing about Anne is that because she worked in radio and in news radio and in loud

newsrooms and having headphones on all the time, she would come home from work and not want music playing. So I don't really have a song for my wife, but I do have a song for the first love of my life. And that track was largely about the insecurities that come with early relationships and a desperate attempt to show the other person that you've got value to them and that you need to trust yourself, that you do bring something to any relationship table, and that it's not all about them, that you have a right to have a say in your relationship too. And she and I had a very good relationship for a while and then I screwed it all up,

which is sort of the story of my relationship life. But I learned a lot from it. And when that track comes on, I am instantly taken back to that day. In my humble opinion, Sarah McLachlan was never better than she was in that Fumbling Towards Ecstasy album. Yeah, this all predates the SPCA commercials that make you cry for seeing the sickly dogs and all of that kind of stuff. And I will always have a place in my heart for Sarah McLachlan. And the whole album's great, but

the radio single that probably got the most play, but to this date, might be my favorite Sarah McLaughlin song of all time, is Hold On, and Hold On is on that album, fumbling towards ecstasy. And you can really hear in that song her vocal abilities at their peak, like the high notes, and you listen, it's like, is she going to hit this? Of course she's going to hit this. It's the studio

track, but it's amazing. It's a great choice, great choice. And I love it when my guests who kick out the jams give me, say, I want this song, but they tell me a specific version. Like, it's kind of exciting. I got to go find a specific version of a song. And I hope I've done well with that here. Let's listen to your next jam. This is the only version of Burning Down the House by Talking Heads that makes my heart move move it's really the whole album it's another one of those examples and it's a it's a live album rarely do live albums have that much of an impact rarely are they as good as what was put out in the studio but this ran circles around

any effort they put into the studio version of burning down the house Hold tight Wait till the party's over Hold tight We're in for nasty red eyes There has got to be a way Right in front of the house Here's your ticket Pack your bags

Time for jumping on the boat Transportation is here Closing up but not too far Maybe you know where you are Fighting fire on fire All the way Yeah, you might need a favor Take it down

Dreams walking in broad daylight 365 degrees Burning down the house It was once a finding place Sometimes I listen to myself Gonna come in first place People wonder where the work's at Baby, what did you expect?

Gonna bust in the fan Go ahead Early in the morning Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha!

Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Erlen Ganderha! Sweep me off my feet I ain't gonna hide No visible means of support And you have not seen nothing yet Everything's stuck together I don't know what you expect

Staring into the TV set Fighting firewood fire Yeah Burning down the hollow Burn it down to hell Wasn't that awesome? Unbelievable, yeah. I can see why. For live version, and I want to tell people, though, if you're going to go hunt this down, that the live album's called Stop Making Sense.

Yes. And it was an excellent album. And it was the cassette that we played. It's an awesome driving tune. And when I was in high school, we would drive up to the family cottage, me and a bunch of buddies,

listening to that album all the way up, all the way back kind of thing. Tom Petty, by the way, another good one for that. And my buddy, his girlfriend couldn't make it up that one particular weekend, but her friend and sort of a mutual friend, Karen, could. And oh, did my heart go a flutter for Karen with her giant shock of red hair, like some sort of Disney princess kind of thing. And I had such a crush on her. But while we were up at the cottage, she and my buddy started flirting while I'm like doing the dishes and stuff.

I'm like, hey, wait a minute. What's going on here? I thought I was going to have a shot at, you know, making some moves here. And here's my buddy doing it while I'm doing their damn dishes. And of course, later that night, after we've all gone to bed, yeah. And so I learned a bunch of different lessons, not the least of which was I couldn't trust my buddy to lay off and back off and be my wingman. But also that I tend to pick the girls who are all wrong for me. She and I ran into each other about five years later, and she was still that high school party girl.

She had a 2-4 that she was returning to the beer store because she needed the money for the returns. And I thought, wow, bullet dodged on that one, pal. Well, you see, you're attracted to that which is not you. And that is the nature of that is that is the nature of uh sometimes that is the nature of love but it sounds like your buddy and karen were burning down the house that oh moving on i'm sorry i apologize to the listening audience but let's kick out that's a palate cleanser let's kick out another jam Brian Ferry and I had a moment at the end of one of his concerts at Massey Hall when he was in town one year.

And it has become one of my all time favorite stories about the woman I was dating at the time. Susan was the one who had introduced me to Brian Ferry in the first place. And I have ever since been a lifelong Brian Ferry fan. Tell her I'll be waiting The usual place To the tide and wind And there's no escape To need a woman You've got to know As strong as me

And the rich gift Slave to love Oh Slave to love You're running with me Don't touch the ground With a restless heart And I'm a champion

The sky is burning I see a flame Do your worst, Jane I will be the same Safe to life Oh Do your worst, dear I will be the same Slave to love Slave to love Slave to love Slave to love

And I can't escape I'm a slave to love Can you love me? Can you help me? Can you help me? The snow is breaking So it seems With the under reason To go on up to three And the spring

Is turning Your face to mine I can't hear Your laughter I can't see your smile Slave to love Slave to love And I can't escape I'm a slave to love And they can't escape

I'm a slave to love Slave to love Slave to love And they can't escape I'm a slave to love Slave to love. Slave to love. I can't escape.

Slave to love. Slave to love. I can't escape. Slave to love. Do you prefer a song to fade out or just have a big abrupt kind of stop on some note? The radio guy in me says that we probably should have started talking about 22 seconds ago and faded it out underneath us. It doesn't really matter. Well, that fade out's on the actual studio recording.

They fade it out. Yeah. But, and I would, everybody who kicks out the jams has it. Some people come in and they're talking all over their jams. Like they'll talk throughout the whole thing. Oh, I can't do that. Right. No, I, but here's what I observed very early with you is you are treating it like a DJ

where you'll, you'll hit the post. I've noticed you've been hitting the post. It's an old DJ. It's in my blood. I will essentially practice radio, listening to the radio, and in my head or out loud hit the post just to see if I can do it. For this particular track, my then-girlfriend, a huge Brian Ferry, Roxy Music fan, says, he's coming to town. We've got to get tickets. And so we bought tickets with my, at the time, slave wages in radio. It cost a fortune. No pun intended. Yeah. And we had really great

seats. And at the end of it, she takes the program that she had bought, because she wanted a souvenir. And she says, let's go to the stage door and see if I can get it signed. And I roll my eyes. I'm like, OK, fine. And we go out, we go to the stage door at Massey Hall there. And his limousine is running and it's waiting. And that's a good sign. And a crowd has already started to form. And there's this giant security guy with this crowd. And there she is, all 5'4 of her, trying desperately just sort of to not push or shove, but others are pushing and shoving. And I don't want to be anywhere near it.

So I walk around to the back of where the limo is waiting, and I'm trying to stay away from the fray. Out comes Brian Ferry, all 6'0 of him, looking like a million damn dollars. You know, I would do Brian Ferry. He's that sexy. And the security guy sees the pandemonium of all the people pushing and shoving, sees that my five foot four petite girlfriend is not, grabs her, pulls her to the front,

takes the program out of her hand, gives it to Brian Ferry. And as Brian Ferry signing it, I'm looking at this man with this look on my face, this grin, this pride, this, man, you've got this all figured out. And he looks up at me and we make eye contact. And he gives me this look like, yeah, I know this is pretty cool. And he gives my girlfriend the program back. She turns around stunned and shocked she met Brian Ferry and starts walking solo towards the subway station. Two things. One, forgetting she arrived with me. And two, that we had driven.

We were not taking the subway home. She was that enthralled by it. Oh, that story is fantastic, too. You can tell it every time Brian Ferry comes up. That's fantastic. On the note of you being the dj hitting the posts some people just talking all over their jams uh dave hodge came in to kick out the jams and his rule was forget hitting the post we couldn't say a word uh over any part of the song

so in its entirety from beginning to end uninterrupted for his 10 jams that was the deal we made going in or he wasn, you cannot forget hitting the post. You can't touch his songs, trample on his songs. So everyone's a little different in how they treat their jams. Let's kick out another one. This one's also for a girl of my life, but this one's for my daughter.

Frank Sinatra's I've Got You Under My Skin. I've got you Under My Skin. No, you gave me the thumbs up, but I think I walked that one. Close enough I'm going to count it. I've got you under my skin. I tried so not to give in. I've said to myself

this affair, it never will go so well. But why should I try to resist When baby I know damn well That I've got you Under my skin I'd sacrifice anything Come what might

For the sake of having you near In spite of a warning voice comes in the night and repeats repeats in my ear don't you know you fool you never can win

use your mentality wake up to reality but each time I do just the thought of you makes me stop before I begin because I've got you

under my skin ¶¶ I would sacrifice anything, come what might For the sake of having you near In spite of a warning voice Comes in the night and repeats how it yells in my ear Don't you know, you fool Ain't no chance to win Why not use your mentality Don't you know, you fool, ain't no chance to win. Why not use your mentality?

Get up, wake up to reality. And each time I do, just the thought of you makes me stop just before I begin. Because I've got you under my skin. And I like you under my skin. That's how you end a song. Chairman of the board. Yeah, for me, the beauty of that song is that you can coo it into your baby's ear when they're colicky, and it will help calm them down. And he's got a vocal range that complements my own vocal range, so it's easy for me to sing that song. And so the beauty for me

was that not only in the middle of the night when you're pacing back and forth with a crying baby, trying to calm them down, that you can gently sing this into her ear to help calm her down. But my wife took a camera phone video, back when it was camera phones as opposed to what we've got now, back in probably 2008, of my daughter sitting in the backseat in her car seat singing this song. And it was just a full circle thing that just warmed the cockles of my heart. Oh man, I feel for you in having a colicky baby. I've never, I haven't had one, but I've heard stories from others. It can be tough, right? It can be tough psychologically because you know you want to help. You know you can't do much to help other than just to be there in many respects. And she wasn't particularly colicky, but as you know, any baby at 3 a.m. that's crying, that's a scene. That's when you call Francis Albert to come help you out. And I've got you under my skin would do the trick.

Very nice. So these last two come full circle back to my career. Number nine. This is from when I worked at CFOS, the mighty Owen Sound radio station. I would play this before I went on air to bring up that energy level. It's not unusual to be loved by anyone It's not unusual to have fun with anyone But when I see you hanging about with anyone

It's not unusual to see me cry I wanna die It's not unusual to go out at any time But when I see you out and about It's such a crime If you should ever want to be loved By anyone It's not unusual

It happens every day No matter what you say. You'll find it happens all the time. Love will never do what you want it to. Why can't this

crazy love be more? It's not unusual to be mad with anyone It's not unusual to be sad with anyone But if I ever find that you've changed at any time It's not unusual to be sad with anyone. But if I ever find that you've changed at any time, it's not unusual to find that I'm in love with you. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, so back in the olden days of radio before it was digital, we had these things called carts. They looked an awful lot like eight-track cassettes. And they came in various sizes, whether you had short ones like 30 seconds for clips for the newscast,

two-and-a-half-minute-long ones for something longer, five-minute ones as well. They used them for commercials. They used them for music. And you could set them up in a fashion that they would loop. And I had this on a cart on a loop for me because I wanted to bring that energy level up and I would crank it five minutes before the big eight o'clock news package and things like that because I absolutely hated my first on-air job. So this is what jazzed you up so you could make it through the shift. Yeah, I had left my girlfriend back in Toronto and my family behind. I was working in a town where I'd never seen so much snow in my entire life.

And my general manager was an absolute nut job. Ironically, that's the only other job I've ever quit in my entire career and came back to Toronto and ended up at 680 News. But I had this and I would crank it just so that it would. And how could you not have that energy level pumped as a result? Well, you know who else loved Tom Jones? Marge Simpson. I believe this was Marge Simpson's favorite artist. Well, that's no surprise.

Yeah, Mr. Burns kidnapped Tom Jones to perform for her when he was trying to woo Marge Simpson. Ah, now you got me thinking about Marge Simpson's panties being thrown on a stage and I don't know if I like that. Well, then let's move on to your final jam. Okay, now this one,

this is the one that I will say we do not talk over. So do you want to just play it? Which is ironic to me because this is the one where there's no post really. Okay, actually, you know what? Then let's talk about

why I love this song. May I start? Okay, yeah, absolutely. It's up to you. You're jammed. This is your show. Punch it. Now most people

are going to listen to this and they are going to think they're listening to the NBC nightly news theme. And that's exactly what they're listening to, except this is John Williams' The Mission, which was a movie. And this was the theme to that particular film. And it was adapted by NBC nightly News for their newscasts and when I needed a pick me up whenever I was having a rough time in my career I would absolutely crank this because if there's one wish I always had and that that would have been to work at NBC Nightly News. Tom Brokaw was the man as far as I'm concerned. The beauty of

this track is that it is remarkably well composed and you hear so very little of it when you would watch NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw. You could always tell, and as a broadcaster, I know this because this would happen to me. If you ever ended your show early, they always had a little extra to help pad things out to get to the end of the time slot. And so the only time that you ever heard anything more than a brief little bit of this composition by John Williams was when Tom Brokaw would end the NBC Nightly News a little too early and they would pull back with that chopper shot of Rockefeller Center and you would hear the music crescendo again. You're like, this is awesome. I need to find out what the original was. And I did. And so I would from time to time when I needed that

pick me up and I felt like I needed to be reminded that I'm TV's Michael Hainsworth, I would play this for the middle piece, not the beginning and not the end. Here comes the chopper shot. NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw. More Americans get their news from NBC News than any other source. Well, there's still more. It's not over yet. Wow. Wasn't that awesome? Yeah, it gets your emotions going. It's all swelling and it's big and brave and just tremendous.

I had no idea that John Williams composed that theme and I had no idea it was from a movie. Yeah, a movie that nobody's ever really seen, which might explain why it was easy for them to get it licensed as the NBC Light and Blue's thing. That was amazing. TV's Michael Hainsworth, I can't wait to hear about your next chapter as it evolves. But man, it sounds like you're in a great place.

And I'm just happy to learn you got out before they tapped you on the shoulder and gave you a pink slip. That's the good news story here. Yeah, 30 years is a milestone. What isn't a milestone is being pink slipped at 31 years. Great point. Timing is everything, as they say.

And that brings us to the end of our 326th show. You can follow me on Twitter. I'm at Toronto Mike. Michael is at Hainsworth TV. Our friends at Great Lakes Brewery are at Great Lakes Beer. Propertyinthe6.com is at Raptors Devotee. He's a happy man today. Finally, a game one win for the Raptors.

They never win those game ones. Go local sports team. Yeah, you were going to tell me about Cha-Cha Rodriguez, I think. Paytm is at Paytm Canada. And Camp Ternasol is at Camp Ternasol. See you all next week.